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YOU FOR THAT.[Ethics Advisory Commission on April 18, 2023]
GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.THIS IS THE MEETING OF THE CITY OF DALLAS ETHICS ADVISORY COMMISSION.
IT IS 9:34 AM ON TUESDAY, APRIL 18TH, 2023.
WE HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT, AND THIS MEETING IS NOW CALLED ORDER.
UM, WILL THE COMMISSIONERS PRESENT? STATE THEIR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
JENNIFER STACH, ANDY BIAL, AND, UH, HOWARD AND JAD.
AND NOW, IF THE STAFF WOULD INTRODUCE THEMSELVES, BEGINNING WITH THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.
JULIE RAY JOHNSON, MI SLAVA MARTINEZ, DONNA BROWN AND THE CITY ATTORNEY.
AND, UM, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
WE WILL PROCEED WITH THE MEETING.
MADAME SECRETARY, ARE THERE ANY PUBLIC SPEAKERS THAT WISH TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION REGARDING THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA? MR. CHAIR? WE DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER.
MR. COLE, YOU MAY COME FORWARD TO THAT PODIUM.
I'LL RECITE THE SPEAKER GUIDELINES.
SPEAKERS MUST OBSERVE THE SAME RULES OF PROPRIETARY IN DECORUM AND GOOD CONDUCT APPLICABLE TO MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
ANY SPEAKER MAKING PERSONAL IMPERTINENT, PROFANE SLANDEROUS, OR IF IT BECOMES BOISTEROUS WHILE ADDRESSING THE COMMISSION WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE ROOM.
YOU'LL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK.
ALSO, PLEASE REMEMBER DOING YOUR COMMENTS.
YOU, YOU MUST STAY ON TOPIC TO THE AGENDAS THAT'S LISTED ON TODAY'S AGENDA.
I WILL ANNOUNCE WHEN YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED.
I'D LIKE TO JUST, UH, BE CLEAR ON THIS.
THERE'S A, A FEW LEGAL ITEMS I UNDERSTAND.
I WANNA FOLLOW VERY CAREFUL HERE.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT I MADE A COMPLAINT TO THE INVESTIGATOR, UH, GENERAL'S OFFICE, UM, IN DECEMBER OF 2022.
UH, MY LAST COMMUNICATION WITH THEM WAS, UH, THAT IF THE COMPLAINT WAS SUBSTANTIATED, I WOULD BE NOTIFIED IMMEDIATELY.
UH, IN THE FOUR MONTHS SINCE THEN, IT'S MY CONCLUSION THAT THE COMPLAINT WAS NOT SUBSTANTIATED.
AND SO, WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLAINANTS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ENGAGE, UH, THE COMMISSION, IT'S MY, UH, CONCLUSION THAT THE COMPLAINT IS NO LONGER A COMPLAINTANT.
I SHOULD BE FREE TO SPEAK PUBLICLY.
ARE THERE OBJECTIONS ON THAT BASIS? NO, GO AHEAD.
UH, WHAT THE FACTS I'M GOING TO STATE NOW ARE PUBLIC RECORD FACTS.
I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING IS CONFIDENTIAL HERE.
UM, I AM INVOLVED IN A LAND DEVELOPMENT, UM, AND WE WERE GIVEN SOME GUIDELINES BY THE CITY OF DALLAS, A PACIFIC PERSON, UM, EARLIER IN 2022.
UM, THOSE GUIDELINES AT THE TIME SEEMED ARBITRARY INTERPRETATIONS OF THE CODE AND NOT CONSISTENT WITH OTHER PROJECTS.
UM, AND ALL OF OUR COMMUNICATION, WE WERE REPEATEDLY TOLD THAT WE MUST FOLLOW THE, UH, GIVEN, UH, INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE.
UH, SUBSEQUENTLY THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, UM, UH, THE, THE CITY, UM, UH, STATED THAT THEY HAD, UM, NO LONGER ANY RIGHT TO REVIEW THE PLANS AND THE PLANS WERE APPROVED.
UH, WE ALSO, UM, SUBMITTED INFORMATION THAT THE CITY SHOULD HAVE TO PARTICIPATE, UH, IN PAYMENT FOR SOME OF THE WORK, WHICH WAS, UM, AFFECTING PROPERTIES OUTSIDE OF OUR PROPERTY.
SUBSEQUENTLY, UH, THE CITY ISSUED A NEW SET OF FINDINGS THAT, UM, UH, THE ARBITRARY INTERPRETATIONS THAT THEY HAD PREVIOUS ISSUED WERE NO LONGER THE CASE.
AND IN FACT, UH, MANY OF THOSE WERE CHANGED AND REMOVED, UH, ARBITRARILY AFTER THE FACT, UH, WHEN THE CITY HAD, UH, NO LONGER ANY RIGHT TO DO THAT.
UM, IT'S MY ALLEGATION THAT, UH, IF THIS IS THE CASE, UM, THE CITY OF DALLAS IS SANCTIONING, UM, ONE SET OF RULES, UH, AS IT'S CONVENIENT TO THEM.
ANOTHER, UM, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THAT, UH, WHEN THEY SO DESIRE.
UH, TO ME THAT'S CONCERNING FROM AN ETHICS STANDPOINT.
UH, THERE'S SEVERAL ITEMS IN TERMS OF EMPLOYEES BEING TRANSPARENT, FAIR, STRAIGHTFORWARD, AND HONEST.
I BELIEVE THAT THERE, THIS, UM, INSTANCE, UH, RAISES CONCERNS ALONG THOSE ITEMS BOTH IN, IN MY PERSONAL BUSINESS AND IN THE REPUTATION OF THE CITY OF DALLAS AND ITS EMPLOYEES.
UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE, UM, INVESTIGATOR, UH, MAY HAVE FOUND NO BASIS FOR THIS.
AND SO I WISH TO USE MY PUBLIC OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE YOU ALL AWARE OF THIS.
AND IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS, I'D BE HAPPY TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ON THAT.
UM, ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSIONER?
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SO, MR. COLE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BRINGING THIS TO OUR ATTENTION.UM, I WILL PERSONALLY FOLLOW UP WITH THE INSPECTOR GENERAL TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON, OBVIOUSLY THAT SHE GET SOME TYPE OF RESPONSE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR.
THERE ARE NO FURTHER SPEAKERS.
UM, THERE BEING NO FURTHER, UM, PUBLIC SPEAKERS.
WE'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR JANUARY 17TH MEETING.
MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF OUR JANUARY EXHIBIT? THERE? SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR? ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.
UM, WE'LL NOW MOVE ON TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS A BRIEFING FROM THE DIVISION OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE.
MR. BEAVERS, UM, WILL YOU NOW PROVIDE US WITH, WITH AN UPDATE? THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRIEF YOU.
IT HAS BEEN THREE MONTHS SINCE WE LAST HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT.
SO WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED SINCE JANUARY 17TH? SINCE THAT TIME, I HAVE PROMOTED BARON ELIASON TO THE CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER POSITION.
WE HAVE ISSUED OUR FIRST QUARTERLY REPORT FOR FISCAL YEAR OF 2023, AND THAT WAS ISSUED ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO.
OUR SECOND QUARTERLY REPORT IS GONNA BE DUE OUT VERY SOON, PROBABLY BY THE END OF THIS MONTH.
WE NEED TO VERIFY NUMBERS BEFORE WE PUBLISH THOSE REPORTS.
AND OUR QUARTERLY REPORTS ARE NOW AVAILABLE ON THE CITY ATTORNEY WEBSITE.
AS FAR AS COMPLAINTS ARE CONCERNED, I ASKED, UH, OUR STAFF TO LOOK AT OUR CASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND TELL ME EXACTLY HOW MANY COMPLAINTS CAME IN IN THE FIRST 12 MONTHS OF OPERATION FROM MARCH 14TH LAST YEAR TO MARCH 14TH OF THIS YEAR.
AND THAT IS A 351% INCREASE OVER WHAT THE CITY OF BALTIMORE RECEIVED IN THEIR FIRST 12 MONTHS OF OPERATION.
UH, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT COME IN, UH, ARE NOT FROM THE PUBLIC.
WE HAVE ALSO, AS FAR AS ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECT OF TWO 14, WE MADE THE NECESSARY REVISIONS TO REFLECT THAT OUR DIVISION NOW RECEIVES AND INVESTIGATES COMPLAINTS OF FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE AND ETHICS VIOLATIONS.
PRIOR TO THE CREATION OF OUR DIVISION, THE ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTION DIRECTIVE EMPOWERED THE CITY AUDITOR TO RECEIVE AND INVESTIGATE COMPLAINTS OF FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE.
I ALSO APPEARED BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT PERFORMANCE AND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE ON JANUARY 23RD, AND WE ANTICIPATE FILING OUR VERY FIRST CASE VERY, VERY SOON.
AS FAR AS TEAM BUILDING IS CONCERNED, UH, YOU ARE AWARE THAT WE RECEIVED SOME NEW FTE POSITIONS BEGINNING IN THE NEW FISCAL YEAR, AND WE HAVE CONDUCTED VARIOUS INTERVIEWS FOR SOME OF THOSE POSITIONS.
AND FINALLY, I'D LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT AS FAR AS A VISION OF HOW THINGS GO FORWARD, I'D REALLY LIKE TO DO SOME TOWN HALL MEETINGS SO THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS WHO WE ARE, WHAT WE DO, AND HOW TO GET IN TOUCH WITH US.
I BUMP INTO PEOPLE IN THIS BUILDING EVERY WEEK WHO ARE UNAWARE THAT WE EVEN EXIST.
SO, UH, I, I DO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC IS AWARE, AND I BROUGHT THIS UP, I BELIEVE IT WAS AT THE G P F M BRIEFING JANUARY.
AND, UH, SO WHAT THAT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE, I COULDN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY NOW, BUT I DO THINK THAT, UH, WHEN THE SUMMER GETS HERE, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CERTAINLY WANT TO DO.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. INSPECTOR GENERAL.
UM, LET ME OPEN IT UP TO ANY QUESTIONS THAT THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO RAISE.
MR. GOOD MORNING, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR A CONCISE AND INFORMATIVE, UH, PRESENTATION.
I JUST WANNA CLARIFY SOME THINGS, JUST BEING CONSISTENT WITH MY QUESTIONS.
LAST YEAR YOU SAID MARCH TO MARCH, WE HAD 316 COMPLAINTS, AND WE HAVE ONE COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE.
MY, MY QUESTION IS, YOU HAD COMPARED IT TO ANOTHER CITY IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME, AND I WONDER HOW WE LOOK YEAR OVER YEAR.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION ON THAT IS, BASED ON ONE CASE BEING IN THE PIPELINE, DOES THAT MEAN YOU'VE, YOUR OFFICE HAS, UH, UH, DEALT WITH 315 CASES COMPLAINTS? WE RECEIVED 316 FROM MARCH 14TH LAST YEAR TO MARCH 14TH
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THIS YEAR.AND WE DIDN'T, WHAT WE NORMALLY DO IS REPORT ON THE FIRST QUARTER OF A FISCAL YEAR, THE SECOND QUARTER OF A FISCAL YEAR.
BUT I KIND OF THOUGHT THAT THE EAC AND MAYBE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WOULD BE CURIOUS OF JUST HOW MANY CAME IN HERE EXACTLY THE FIRST QUARTER MONTHS.
MY, MY QUESTION BEING THOUGH, AND YOU SAID ONE CASE IS FINAL, ALMOST READY, AND I, AND I JUST WAS WONDERING EITHER YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ALL THE TIME NONSTOP DURING THE 315 CASES, RIGHT? MINUS THAT ONE? OR IS IT THAT A LOT OF 'EM DON'T QUALIFY? OR, AND, OR, AND HOW MANY OF 'EM KIND OF HAD TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS IN YOUR OFFICE? THE, THE WHOLE PROCESS OF WHEN WE RECEIVE A COMPLAINT YES.
WHEN WE RECEIVE A COMPLAINT, USUALLY, TYPICALLY THE FIRST THING WE DO IS, UM, THERE'S A VETTING PROCESS, A TRIAGE PROCESS.
WE CONDUCT A PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION, RIGHT? AND WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE IF THERE'S A CREDIBLE ALLEGATION OF FRAUD, RIGHT? IF THERE'S A CREDIBLE ALLEGATION OF AN POTENTIAL ETHICS VIOLATION, UH, EVERYTHING COMES IN.
WE, WE DON'T PRESUME ANYTHING BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.
AND SO WE WANT TO GATHER SOME AMOUNT OF INFORMATION, VISIT WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FOLKS TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US AND THE PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION THAT WE CONDUCT MERITS GOING FORWARD INTO A FULL SCALE INVESTIGATION OR NOT.
SO, SO MY QUESTION ABOUT THAT IS, HOW MANY HAVE QUALIFIED OUT OF THE 316 COMPLAINTS? I MIGHT NOT BE MAKING MYSELF CLEAR.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
THAT'S A LOT OF CASES, RIGHT? HOW MANY OF THEM WERE ELIGIBLE TO MOVE DOWN THE LINE, YOU KNOW, TO BE FURTHER INVESTIGATED IN YOUR OFFICE VERSUS HOW MANY, I'M JUST TO GET A SENSE OF HOW MANY CASES WE HEAR A YEAR.
HIS SAME QUESTION AS LAST TIME MM-HMM.
I REAL, I REALLY DON'T LIKE TO GUESS WHEN, WHEN THE, IF, IF IT'S OKAY WITH YOU, I'D PREFER TO GET YOU A HYPERACTIVE NUMBER.
THIS IS NOT, IT'S NOT TIME CRITICAL.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS THINK ABOUT, IS THIS THE BEST USE OF EVERYBODY'S TIME? WE'RE NOT HEARING ANY CASES THING, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO RETHINK THE WHOLE THING.
UM, MY SECOND QUESTION IS, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HAVING TOWN HALL MEETINGS, WHICH I THINK IS A FANTASTIC IDEA, ESPECIALLY WITH SUCH CYNICISM BEING SO PERVASIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY WITH OUR HISTORY OF, OF ETHICS ISSUES.
UM, I'M JUST WONDERING, AS YOU THINK IT THROUGH, YOU SAID, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE YET, BUT I'M, I WANNA PUT IN MY VOTE, MY ENCOURAGEMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU DO DO THE TOWN HALL MEETINGS THAT THEY BE DONE IN OUTSIDE THE BUILDING.
CUZ SOME PEOPLE CAN'T MAKE IT HERE.
AND ALSO TO HAVE IT, UM, AT DIFFERENT TIMES OF DAY, BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CAN'T GET HERE IN THE MORNING AND SOME PEOPLE CAN'T GET IT.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DISCLOSE WHAT'S GOING ON AT CITY HALL, WE CAN DO IT SO THAT PEOPLE CAN BE A PART OF IT.
AND ALSO TO INCLUDE, UM, AN ONLINE PARTICIPATION OPPORTUNITY.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE BECAUSE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, DO IT ALL OVER THE CITY, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE DOING THEM, WHO'S HELPING YOU RECRUIT FOR THEM, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA NEED A GOOD SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW IT'S HAPPENING.
AND I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU REACHING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY TO GET, UH, A BETTER UNDER SO COMMUNITY GETS BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE DO AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHAT YOUR OFFICE DOES.
AND MR AND I JUST ADD TO THAT, GOING BACK TO THE STATISTICS, YOU'LL, YOU'LL, UH, PROVIDE BACK TO THE COMMISSION.
I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, PAM, MAYBE IF I CAN EXTRAPOLATE A BIT ON, ON, ON THE QUESTION, WAS SOME OF THOSE COMPLAINTS REALLY AREN'T ETHICS VIOLATIONS.
AND, AND SO THEY WOULDN'T NECESSARILY COME TO THIS COMMISSION.
SO AN IDEA IF THEY'VE BEEN REFERRED TO OTHER DEPARTMENTS CUZ THE PERSONNEL MATTERS, OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT.
I THINK THOSE KIND OF STATISTICS WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL.
SO YOU GET A SENSE THAT ALL 316 COMPLAINTS ARE BEING FILED MAYBE X PERCENT OR, OR ETHICS OR FRAUD RELATED THAT WOULD COME BEFORE.
I THINK WE TRY TO CUT, GO AHEAD.
UH, WE TRY TO PUT IN OUR QUARTERLY REPORT, THOSE LAST FOUR OR FIVE PAGES, UH, A SEMI DETAILED SYNOPSIS OF WHEN THE COMPLAINT CAME IN AND WHAT OUR DISPOSITION RESOLUTION WAS.
SO YOU COULD SEE UNSUBSTANTIATED, UNFOUNDED REFERRED TO HUMAN RESOURCES.
AND, BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND YOUR SPECIFIC
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QUESTION, YOU WANT TO KNOW FROM MARCH 14TH LAST YEAR TO MARCH 14TH THIS YEAR, HOW MANY WENT FULL SCALE? I'M JUST GONNA TRY AND GET A, UH, AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW MANY CASES THIS COMMISSION ACTUALLY WILL POTENTIALLY BE SEEING.YOU KNOW, IS THERE A REAL FLOW OF THEM? I, I JUST DON'T KNOW.
I, BECAUSE IF WE'RE, WE MIGHT SEE ONE CASE, LIKE I SAID, YOU GUYS MUST BE WORKING REALLY HARD ON THIS STUFF BECAUSE IF WE'RE ONLY HEARING ONE CASE IN THE LAST YEAR, IT'S A STATEMENT OF SOMETHING JIM.
YEAH, AND I DO THINK IT BEARS MENTIONING, WHEN I STARTED HERE, I WAS BY MYSELF AND WE HAD A TOTAL OF TWO INVESTIGATORS ON STAFF UNTIL THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER.
SO EVERY SINGLE CASE THAT CAME IN FROM DAY ONE UNTIL THE FIRST OR SECOND WEEK OF DECEMBER FELL ON THE SHOULDERS OF TWO INVESTIGATORS.
ONCE WE GOT THE TWO POSITIONS APPROVED AND WE GOT THOSE FOLKS HIRED, THE LAST OF WHICH STARTED IN JANUARY 23, WE NOW HAVE A MANAGEABLE CASELOAD PER INVESTIGATOR.
SO, UM, IF SOMEBODY SAYS, WELL, GOSH, YOU, YOU SHOULD HAVE PRODUCED MORE BART YOUR FIRST 12 MONTHS, I WOULD SAY, WELL, THERE'S A LITTLE MORE OF THE STORY.
WE, WE'VE BRINGING PEOPLE ON AND NOW WE HAVE A MANAGEABLE CASELOAD.
I, I JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY, I'M COMPLIMENTING YOUR OFFICE ON HOW MANY CASES THEY'RE HEARING AND KEEPING US NEEDING TO HEAR.
SO THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF YOUR CASELOAD.
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DID IT WITH O ONLY TWO PEOPLE.
UM, SO IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY, YOU TALKED ABOUT 316 CASES BEING FILED DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
I PRESUME THAT SOME OF THOSE ARE STILL BEING WORKED AT SOME POINT.
SO DO YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, 316 THAT WERE FINISHED ALSO? OR IS THERE A PIPELINE OF SAY, YOU KNOW, 40, 50, 80 THAT ARE STILL OPEN SO THAT YOU'VE CLOSED OUT TWO 70 AND HAVE 46 OR WHATEVER RING DO YOU HAVE THAT THOSE, THOSE WERE COMPLAINTS RECEIVED IN THAT 12 MONTH TIME PERIOD? UH, THEY'RE AT VARIOUS STAGES OF PROGRESS.
UH, LIKE THE CHAIRMAN HAD MENTIONED SOME OF THESE THINGS, OUR ETHICS RELATED, SOME OF 'EM ARE FRAUD RELATED, SOME OF 'EM ARE NOT.
SO, UM, I CAN GET YOU A FIGURE IF, IF THAT'S, IF YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT AS TO, UM, MAYBE HOW, HOW MANY ARE IN THE PIPELINE VERSUS RECEIVED.
YEAH, I THINK SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF YOU DECIDE ONE OR TWO STAGES OR THREE STAGES, RIGHT? THAT YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN FILED NO WORK DONE FILED, YOU KNOW, INVESTIGATION STARTED OR FILED, CLOSED WITHOUT NEED FOR INVESTIGATION AND THEN CLOSED CLOSE SOMETHING OF THAT SORT, THEN WE GET, I'LL GET A FEEL FOR, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHAT THE, THE WORKLOAD IS AND WHAT'S SKILLED IN THE PIPELINE AND ET CETERA, SO THAT WE CAN BETTER UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT FLOW GOING.
I WAS WONDERING IF, UM, THE COMMITTEE, THE COUNCIL COULD GET, UM, COPIES OF THE QUARTERLY REPORT WITHOUT GOING ONLINE AND LOOKING FOR IT.
UM, THAT MIGHT HELP, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU SAID AT THE END OF THE REPORT THERE WERE SOME STATISTIC WITH REGARD TO THE NUMBERS.
IF, UM, YOU COULD GET US OR IF ONE COULD GET US COPIES OF THAT, THAT WOULD BE JUST A TO DONNA, FOR DONNA TO GET TO.
YEAH, I MEAN, IT SEEMS SIMPLE TO JUST SEND US THE PRELIM REPORT AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE AT LEAST SOMETHING.
BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES, THE, UM, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO KNOW WHERE THEY WENT.
I MEAN, YOU, YOU'VE GOT DEPARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, 24 OF THEM WENT TO DEPARTMENT X 12 WENT TO DEPARTMENT Y AND WHAT'S LEFT IS SOMETHING WE ARE NOW PURSUING AND WE EXPECT WE'LL DEAL WITH 10 OF THOSE WITHIN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS.
I JUST GOT A TEXT MESSAGE FROM A LEAD INVESTIGATOR AND SHE SAID WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 160 FULL SCALE INVESTIGATIONS AT THIS MOMENT.
JUST A COUPLE, COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS.
UM, ONE SIMILAR TO THE, THE ISSUE THAT OUR SPEAKER RAISED.
WHAT, UM, OUT OF THOSE 316 COMPLAINTS WHEN THEY, WHEN THERE IS SOME TYPE OF DETERMINATION THAT THEY'RE NOT SUBSTANTIATED, CAN YOU JUST, CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT WE'RE SPECIFICALLY DOING? I MEAN, ARE WE, ARE WE LETTING THEM AFFIRMATIVELY LETTING THEM KNOW THAT? OR IS THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT HEARING ANYTHING SUPPOSED TO SUGGEST THAT, HEY, WE'VE, THERE'S NOTHING HERE.
YEAH, THE FIRST THING WE DO WHEN SOMEBODY FILES A COMPLAINT, WE REMIND THEM FROM THIS MOMENT FORWARD, EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE TELLING US IS CONFIDENTIAL.
AND, UH, THE CONFIDENTIALITY PRIVILEGES ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN MY OPINION FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.
AND SO, UM, WE DO COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE WHEN WE REACH A DISPOSITION DECISION.
IT'S EVERYTHING THAT WE DISPOSE OF WHEN WE REACH A DISPOSITION DECISION IS PUBLISHED IN OUR QUARTERLY REPORTS.
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FIRST AND WENT TO THE SECOND AND THEN WENT TO THE THIRD, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE A RUNNING ACCOUNT OF OUR DISPOSITION DECISIONS ON A QUARTERLY BASIS.SO WHEN WE REACH A DECISION, IF IT HAPPENS IN THIS QUARTER, THEN THE NEXT QUARTERLY REPORT THAT COMES OUT, IT WILL BE IN THERE.
BUT, UM, BUT ONLY THE, ONLY THE COMPLAINANT CAN TRACK THAT.
RIGHT? I MEAN, IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, I MIGHT NOT KNOW THAT, UH, MR. COLE, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MR. COLE'S COMPLAIN.
I NOW KNOW, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT MR. COLE'S COMPLAINT WAS.
THERE WOULDN'T BE A WAY FOR ME TO, UH, ONLY HE COULD IDENTIFY ITS, ITS PATH IN THE REPORT.
IS THAT RIGHT? DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH INFORMATION THAT I'VE SEEN IN THE, IN THE REPORT.
USUALLY THE REPORTS HAVE A DATE THAT WE RECEIVED THE COMPLAINT, AND THEN THE DATE THAT WE DISPOSE OF IT, AND WHAT THE DISPOSITION DECISION WAS.
SO IF A CASE GOT REFERRED TO HUMAN RESOURCES FOR WHATEVER MATTER, THEN THAT WOULD BE, UH, SOMETHING THAT THE COMPLAINANT COULD LOOK AT AND GO, OH, I, I FILED A COMPLAINT ON JANUARY 1ST.
I CAN SEE NOW THAT IT'S DISPOSED.
UM, THAT MUST BE MINE BECAUSE THERE'S ENOUGH INFORMATION IN THERE FOR ME TO DISCERN THAT THAT WAS THE COMPLAINT THAT I MADE.
IS THERE SOME TYPE OF NUMBER ASSOCIATED WITH IT, LIKE COMPLAINT NUMBER OR SOMETHING? WE HAVE CASE NUMBERS THAT WE TRACK ON EVERY SINGLE THING THAT COME IN.
SO THERE'S AN AUDIT TRAIL ONCE WE RECEIVE IT AND WE CAN BACKTRACK AND SEE WHAT THE COMPLAINT WAS IF IT WAS DECIDED IN A PRELIMINARY PHASE, IF IT WENT FULL SCALE, IF IT WENT REFERRED TO ANOTHER ENTITY FOR WHATEVER REASON.
UM, SO YES, THERE IS A, A CASE NUMBER ASSOCIATED WITH EVERY COMPLAINT AND THE COMPLAINANT HAS THAT NUMBER? I DON'T THINK SO.
I'LL CHECK ON THAT AND GET YOU AN ANSWER.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK LIKE IF I, IF I FILE A COMPLAINT, HOW WILL I THEN AFFIRMATIVELY TRACK IT? AND IT SOUNDS LIKE EITHER I'M GONNA HEAR BACK FROM YOU OR I MIGHT NOT.
IF I DON'T, THEN I'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THIS REPORT.
BUT IF THERE'S, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, ONCE I GO TO THAT REPORT MM-HMM.
IF YOU FILED A COMPLAINT ON FEBRUARY 1ST AND WE WERE ABOUT TO SUBSTANTIATE IT, THAT MEANS WE'RE ABOUT TO FILE IT WITH THE EAC AND WE'RE GONNA TEE THIS THING UP AND SET IT FOR A TESTED HEARING, THEN WE WOULD BE CONTACTING YOU AND YOU AND I WOULD BE HAVING AN IN-PERSON MEETING, RIGHT.
PREPARING YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY, TALKING ABOUT, UM, UH, THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU BROUGHT FORWARD, THE EVIDENCE THAT WE FOUND THAT YOU MAY, MAY HAVE NOT BROUGHT OVER.
SO YOU'RE GONNA KNOW, UM, BEFORE THE CASE GETS FILED THAT SOMETHING'S FIXING TO HAPPEN.
IF IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING OTHER THAN SUBSTANTIATED LIKE IT WAS UNFOUNDED OR UNSUBSTANTIATED OR REFERRED TO THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE WE THOUGHT IT WAS CRIMINAL OR, OR SOME OTHER DECISION, THEN WE TYPICALLY, UH, COMMUNICATE WITH THOSE FOLKS THROUGH OUR QUARTERLY REPORTS.
UM, SOMETIMES WE REACH OUT TO 'EM WHEN WE MAKE A DISPOSITION DECISION, UH, AND GIVE 'EM A COURTESY CALL.
BUT I'M NOT SURE IF WE DO THAT ON EVERY SINGLE CASE.
AND, SORRY, I, I'M NOT, THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A CROSS EXAMINATION.
I JUST WANNA, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND WHY WOULD WE NOT, UH, LIKE IF, IF WE'RE TRYING TO REACH OUT TO THE PUBLIC ULTIMATELY MM-HMM.
I IMAGINE SOMETHING SIMILAR HAPPENED WITH OUR SPEAKER.
SO WHY WOULD WE NOT JUST SAY, DEAR MR. COLE, WE'VE REVIEWED THIS, UM, AND WE HAVE EITHER REFERRED IT TO ZONING, YOU KNOW, OR WE HAVE FOUND THAT IT'S NOT SUBSTANTIATED.
HERE ARE YOUR, HERE ARE YOUR RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHAT YOU COULD DO.
AND THEN AT LEAST HE OR SHE HAS SOME, YOU KNOW, WHETHER HE AGREES OR DISAGREES, HE AT LEAST HAS SOME CLARITY.
I, I BELIEVE WE DO THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME.
SO IF SOMEBODY'S FILED SOMETHING AND WE, WE DON'T GIVE UPDATES ON OUR INVESTIGATIVE PROCESSES, BUT IF SOMEBODY FILED SOMETHING AND IT'S NOT IN THE QUARTERLY REPORT AND WE HAVEN'T PREPARED YOU FOR A CONTESTED HEARING, UH, YOU ARE, IT WOULD BE A VERY REASONABLE DEDUCTION FROM THAT EVIDENCE TO REALIZE THAT IT'S STILL IN THE PIPELINE.
WELL, I'M SAYING EVEN IF IT, EVEN IF IT IS IN THE QUARTERLY REPORT, I, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD NECESSARILY EXPECT PEOPLE TO EVERY QUARTER REMEMBER TO CHECK THE QUARTERLY REPORT, ESPECIALLY IF WE DON'T HAVE A LOT, WE'RE NOT ABLE TO PUT A LOT OF INFORMATION IN THE REPORT BECAUSE OF THE CONFIDENTIALITY.
SO ANYWAY, ALL I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT IF WE COULD JUST MAYBE EXPLORE, EVEN IF IT'S JUST A ONE OFF EMAIL TO, TO SOMEONE LIKE MR. COAG, HEY, WE'VE INVESTIGATED THIS, WE HAVE FOUND THAT IT'S UNSUBSTANTIATED, IT IS, OR, OR IT'S BEEN REFERRED TO THIS ENTITY AND THEN WE'RE DONE.
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IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT MIGHT GIVE PEOPLE MORE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE TO KNOW, LIKE, OKAY, I DISAGREE WITH THAT DECISION FOR MR. BEAVERS, BUT I AT LEAST I HAVE SOME CLARITY AS TO WHERE THIS IS.I THINK THAT IS A VERY REASONABLE RECOMMENDATION.
AND I, AND I GUESS ADDING TO THAT, IF I CAN, THAT THE COMPLAINANT'S MADE AWARE OF THE COMPLAINT NUMBER THAT THEY'VE GOT SO THAT THEY COULD MAKE AN INQUIRY OF, OF YOUR, UM, OFFICE AND YOUR THEN GET A STATUS REPORT.
THE STATUS REPORT POTENTIALLY BEING STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION AND, AND OR BEEN DISPOSED OF OR WHATEVER IT'S SOMEBODY'S FOLLOWING UP TO, SO THAT THEY CAN BE ABLE TO AT LEAST FEEL THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UM, UH, THEY'RE, THEIR COMPLAINT IS, IS, IS IS BEING PROCESSED APPROPRIATELY.
THE, THE THING I WANNA ADD TO THAT IS, I WOULD IMAGINE UNDER MOST CIRCUMSTANCES, IF THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THIS DEPARTMENT EXISTS, I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE GONNA KNOW HOW TO GO.
AND I KNOW IT'S HAPPENED TO ME WHERE TO GO UNDER 12 A, YOU KNOW, YOU READ THROUGH IT AND IT'S MUCH MORE USER FRIENDLY NOW THAN IT EVER WAS BEFORE, WHICH IS GREAT NEWS FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.
I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY, SO I DON'T KNOW THE LEGALESE.
I KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT FRUSTRATED ON THE FLOOR HERE WHEN THEY WERE SPEAKING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'D SAY, WE WOULD SAY, YOU DIDN'T CITE THE RIGHT AR THE RIGHT SECTION OF 12 A.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW.
AND SO TO HAVE, UH, WHAT HE WAS SAYING IN TERMS OF HAVING A STATUS REPORT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
IT'S GOTTA BE A STATUS REPORT THAT, UM, OUR SPEAKER, UH, SHARED THIS MORNING.
IT'S GOTTA BE SOMETHING THAT HE UNDERSTANDS.
UM, AND I KNOW THAT WHEN I WAS WORKING ON SOME STATEWIDE LEGISLATION, IT WAS CHALLENGING BECAUSE I HAD TO STAY ON TOP OF THIS, THIS STATE REP'S RADAR SCREEN.
I WAS CONSTANTLY CALLING IN AND WRITING AND SAYING, WHAT'S THE STATUS? WHAT'S THE STATUS? AND I KNOW IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BE ABLE TO KEEP EVERYBODY UP TO SPEED ON WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THEIR INDIVIDUAL CASE, WHICH I THINK HAVING SOMETHING ONLINE THAT THEY ARE COACHED ON HOW TO WORK, IT WOULD BE GREAT.
SO ONE, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT EXISTS AND TWO PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW HOW THEY CAN ACCESS IT IN A LANGUAGE THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND.
BY THE WAY, THAT ALSO MEANS ADDING SPANISH, UH, TO THE, THE, UM, ACCESS TO EITHER THEIR INDIVIDUAL REPORTS OR THE QUARTERLY REPORT.
I WOULD'VE FORGOTTEN MY ISSUE BY THEN, YOU KNOW, THREE MONTHS LATER.
AND I'M WONDERING, WHERE'S MY CASE AT? WHO DO I CALL? DO I CALL IT? IT'S JUST, IT'S COMPLICATED AND FRUSTRATING IF, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR KNOWLEDGE TO DO THAT.
SO I DO WANNA THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP, UM, AND ENCOURAGE YOU TO CREATE A, A USER-FRIENDLY SYSTEM.
JUST WITH THE ELECTION, WITH THE ELECTION COMING UP, ARE YOU, UM, I KNOW YOU, YOU'RE NOT GONNA ADD MORE STAFF, YOU ALREADY HAVE A FULL, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE RIGHT.
ARE YOU ALREADY SEEING, UM, AS SOME OF THESE CAMPAIGNS ARE, ARE INCREASING THAT, THAT SOME OF THESE COMPLAINTS ARE, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH, WITH THOSE ISSUES? AND, AND, AND, AND THE ONLY REASON I BRING THAT UP, AND I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST TIME, THOSE TEND TO BE MORE TIMELY BECAUSE THERE'S LIKE AN END DATE ULTIMATELY TO THE ELECTION.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF, IF THERE ARE ANY, AND HOPEFULLY THERE ARE NOT, IF THERE ARE ANY, UM, ARE THOSE GONNA BE TRIAGED TO WHERE YOU CAN PRIORITIZE, THEY'RE ALL IMPORTANT, BUT YOU CAN PRIORITIZE SOME OF THE ELECTION ISSUES AHEAD OF THE MAY ELECTION? I, I THINK ANY TYPE OF ALLEGATIONS INVOLVING A CITY OFFICIAL CORRECT, ARE ABSOLUTELY THE HIGHEST PRIORITY.
AND WE TRY TO, WE TRY TO PRIORITIZE THOSE.
UM, BUT EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT.
SO HOW QUICKLY YOU CAN GET ALL THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU NEED AND INTERVIEW ALL THE WITNESSES THAT YOU NEED TO INTERVIEW DIFFERS FROM CASE TO CASE.
BUT I SEE MY JOB AS LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE AND FOLLOWING THE RULES AND TRYING NOT TO TREAT ONE PERSON DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER.
NOW, WHEN IT'S A HIGH PROFILE DEAL, I THINK THAT IS TREATING SOMEBODY A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S A HIGH PROFILE DEAL.
AND SO I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S, UM, I TRY NOT TO CONCERN MYSELF WITH POLITICS BECAUSE I'M NOT A POLITICAL PERSON.
[00:30:01]
INVESTIGATIVE TYPE PERSON, BUT I'M AWARE THAT THERE ARE POLITICS THAT GO ON AROUND, UH, THE ARENAS THAT WE WALK IN.SO, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, BUT WE, WE DO PRIORITIZE STUFF WHEN IT'S HIGH LEVEL CITY OFFICIAL TYPE FOLKS AND YEAH, AND I, I, AND I'M NOT AT ALL SUGGESTING THAT YOU DO GET INTO TO, I'M, I'M JUST SAYING, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT IT, THAT YOU DO GET INTO POLITICS.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT, THAT AT LEAST IN MY LIMITED EXPERIENCE OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, THERE HAS BEEN AN INFLUX OF COMPLAINTS SURROUNDING THESE CAMPAIGNS.
AND SO, UM, IF WE DIDN'T GET TO THEM, YOU KNOW, IF THE PERSON IS ELECTED OR IS NOT ELECTED, AND THEN THE COMPLAINANT'S HEARING SOMETHING IN AUGUST, UH, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE WOULD BE SOME SORT OF ISSUE THERE THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I WAS ASKING IF IT WAS, IF IT, I AGREE.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING OTHERWISE, IT'S JUST THAT THE ELECTION IS SOMEWHAT MORE TIMELY.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR OUR INSPECTOR GENERAL? OKAY.
THEY'RE NOT MR. BEAVERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US THIS MORNING.
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK AND, UM, APPRECIATE, UM, FOLLOWING UP AND HELPING US GET THE QUARTERLY REPORTS OR, UM, DON IF YOU'LL HELP US GET THOSE TO THE, TO THE COMMISSION, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
UM, LET'S NOW MOVE TO OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, THE UPDATE ON THE AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 12 A OF THE ETHICS CODE.
MS. MORRISON, CAN YOU GIVE US THE UPDATE? THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
UH, LAURA MORRISON, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
UH, THIS IS GONNA BE A REAL QUICK AGENDA ITEM, UM, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO REPORT TO THE COMMISSION THAT I DIDN'T ALREADY REPORT BACK IN JANUARY.
WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON GENERAL INVESTIGATIONS AND ETHICS TO MEET AGAIN.
UH, I THINK THE LAST TIME THE COMMITTEE MET WAS BACK IN NOVEMBER, SO WE'RE STILL, UM, JUST WAITING.
WE'RE STILL, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT OUR DRAFT AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT THINGS WE'RE LOOKING AT, BUT, UH, WE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN BACK TO THE COMMITTEE YET, SO I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO REPORT AT THIS TIME.
SO I, I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THAT'S NOT YOUR FAULT, BUT IT'S TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HEAR FROM THE TECH COMMITTEE SUPPOSED TO BE MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN MEETING, THEN I THINK IT'S OUR OBLIGATION TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEN.
I WAS GONNA GIVE YOU AN UPDATE WITH REGARD TO THAT.
I HAVE, UM, JUST SO THE COMMISSION KNOWS, I HAVE FOLLOWED UP WITH BOTH THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE AND, AND, UM, OTHER MEMBERS AND ASKED TO PUSH FORWARD.
UM, AND I'VE FRONT HERE GOT THE SAME, UH, RESPONSE TO MS. MORRISON'S HAD, WHICH WAS, WAS, UH, WHICH WAS CRICKETS.
AND I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF THAT COULD BE THAT WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF CAMPAIGN SEASON AND THAT'S, THAT'S PERHAPS DISTRACTED THEM.
BUT I, I WILL JUST CONTINUE TO DO THAT WITH FOLLOWING UP BOTH FORMALLY AND, AND I, I DID TALK TO, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER SCHULTZ AT SPOKE, UH, SPOKE CORRECTLY.
SO, AND PROMISE FROM HER AT THAT POINT IN TIME, I'LL GET THIS MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND SHE'S ON THE COMMITTEE, BUT, UM, SHE'S NOT THE, THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMITTEE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO IT'S THE CHAIR THAT MAKES IT HAPPEN AND I'VE JUST, I'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET HER ATTENTION.
SO IF, IF YOU OTHERS WANT TO REACH OUT TO HER AND ASK TO DO THE SAME THING, MAYBE MAYBE A, A GROUP OF US I'LL FOLLOWING THAT CHAIRMAN FOLLOWING THAT, I HAVE AN IDEA, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE A GOOD ONE.
THAT IS, WHY DON'T WE HAVE SOMEONE AUTHOR A MEMO SAYING, YOU KNOW, STRONGLY ENCOURAGING THEM TO MEET SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
BECAUSE GRANT BROUGHT UP SOME GOOD ISSUES, LIKE IF THERE'S SOMETHING POLITICAL THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT PRIOR TO THE ELECTION, WHICH ISN'T THAT TOO FAR AWAY, BUT WE COULD DO ONE LETTER AND, AND WHOEVER WANTS TO AND SUPPORT THAT LETTER, PUT THEIR NAME ON THE LETTER AS WELL.
THANK YOU FOR, WE CAN CONTINUE TO USE THIS RESPONSES.
SO, UM, I AM AS FRUSTRATED AS YOU ALL WITH WITH REGARDING TO THE, UH, TO THE NON.
UM, BUT WITH THAT BEING SAID, IF I, MS. MORRIS, ANYTHING ELSE IN THAT REGARD? ANYTHING THAT OR HOWARD FROM, FROM THOSE ON THE VIDEO? ANY? JENNIFER, I HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, SO IN THIS PERIOD WHERE WE'RE WAITING FOR THE REVISIONS, ARE WE WORKING UNDER THE CURRENT, I MEAN, WHAT,
[00:35:01]
SO YOU OKAY.SO WE'RE WORKING UNDER THE, THE, THE CURRENT THERE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE CHAPTER 12 A, THE CODE OF ETHICS, UM, WE HAD REVISIONS APPROVED BY DALLAS CITY COUNCIL IN DECEMBER OF 2021.
SO THAT IS THE CURRENT VERSION AND IT'S UPDATED, UM, ON THE CITY ATTORNEY'S WEBSITE.
SO WE'RE WORKING UNDER THOSE RULES MM-HMM.
AND SO WE FELT A LITTLE BIT HAMSTRUNG AND, AND, UM, MR. BEAVERS NOW IS, IS READY TO START BRINGING CASES, BUT IS UNDER OUR CURRENT, UM, PROCEDURAL RULES.
THERE'S NOT A, NOT A WAY FOR HIM TO DO THAT.
SO, UM, THIS TAKES US THEN TO OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS APPROVAL OF SOME INTERIM HEARING PROCEDURE RULES.
UM, AND I GUESS I'VE GOT A FIRST GO TO THE PRIOR AGENDA.
LET'S GO TO ITEM AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS SUSPENSION OF THE EXISTING ETHICS ADVISORY COMMISSION, RULES OF PROCEDURE.
UM, AND MS. MORRISON, WILL YOU HELP WALK US THROUGH THIS? YES.
SO THE REASONING BEHIND THE SUSPENSION OF YOUR CURRENT RULES OF PROCEDURE IS, UM, UNDER SECTION 1.3 OF THE EAC RULES OF PROCEDURE.
IT SAYS THAT AFTER AMENDING THE RULES, THE ETHICS ADVISORY COMMISSION SHALL PROVIDE A COPY OF THE AMENDED RULES TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.
UM, AND THEY APPROVE THAT BY RESOLUTION.
THEY JUST, UM, APPROVE A RESOLUTION THAT SAYS THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE EAC HAS AMENDED THEIR RULES AND THEY'RE IN RECEIPT OF, UH, THE NEW VERSION OF THE RULES.
UH, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT WITH THE USED INTERIM PROCEDURAL RULES BECAUSE WE'RE JUST IMPLEMENTING THESE INTERIM PROCEDURES WHILE WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR THE NEXT ROUND OF CHAPTER 12 A, UM, REVISIONS TO GO THROUGH.
SO THEN AT THAT TIME, I CAN BRING YOU AN OFFICIAL DRAFT OF THE FULLY REWRITTEN EAC RULES OF PROCEDURE THAT WILL REFLECT, UH, THE NEWLY REVISED CHAPTER 12 A.
UM, BUT AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, YOUR CURRENT RULES OF PROCEDURE, UM, AREN'T GOING TO BE HELPFUL IF A CASE DOES COME BEFORE THE EAC SOON, BECAUSE IT STILL REFERENCES THE PRELIMINARY PANEL AND JUST PROCEDURES THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANYMORE.
SO THESE, UM, UH, THESE PROCEDURES WILL STAND, UM, IN THE INTERIM SO THAT YOU CAN START HEARING CASES AND YOU'LL HAVE SOME, SOME PROCEDURES THAT, THAT WILL HELP YOU OUT.
SO, SO AGAIN, IF MAYBE I CAN HELP CLARIFY FOR JUST A SECOND WHAT, WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO DO HERE NOW, DR.
PROCEDURE THAT WE FOLLOW, THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN PART OF IN THE PAST UNDER THE OLD RULES, UM, OR UNDER THE OLD CHAPTER 12 BAN, UM, WE'RE BEING ASKED TO SUSPEND THOSE RULES SO THAT WE CAN ADOPT SOME INTERIM RULES THAT ALLOW THE INSPECTOR GENERAL CASE.
THE REASON WE'RE DOING INTERIM RULES VERSUS FORMAL FINAL RULES THAT WE WOULD GO TO THE COUNCIL TO SEEK THEIR APPROVAL ON IS BECAUSE THE AMENDMENTS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED TO THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE WILL AFFECT WHAT WILL BE IN FINAL RULES, RIGHT? SO, SO WE'LL NEED A MOTION TO SUSPEND THE RULES PROCEDURE SO THAT WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS TO DISCUSS AND THEN APPROVE THE INTERIM RULES.
AND, UM, IF AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE PASSES, THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING FOR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, OTHER THAN NOW WE CAN MOVE ON TO THAT ITEM.
IT DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY APPROVE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX.
AND SO IF WE GET, UM, BEFORE WE GO FORWARD, THE QUESTION YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, I THINK PROCEDURALLY WE NEED TO HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE CONCEPT OF SUSPENDED SO THAT WE CAN BACK THAT SO MUCH NOW MAY DISCUSS WEEK.
MS. GER, OH, A SUSPENSION OF THE RULES IS NOT DEBATABLE.
SO YOU'LL JUST, OH, I'M, OH, OH, IT'S NOT DEBATABLE.
SO YOU'LL JUST PROCEED TO A VOTE ON, SO I'LL SEND MY MOTION.
CAN I DO THAT SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO DISCUSS? WELL, THERE'S REALLY NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ANY DISCUSSION.
I WAS JUST BRIEFING YOU ON THE NEED FOR THE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE.
BUT THAT, THAT, THAT'S NOT GONNA WORK FOR THIS COMMISSIONER.
WANNA ASK SOME QUESTIONS BEFORE THEY MAKE THE MOTION? OH, THEY CAN ASK ME QUESTIONS.
UH, THIS SEEMS BACKWARDS TO ME.
SHOULDN'T THE APPROVAL HAPPEN BEFORE THE SUSPENSION? WELL, I THINK WE CAN'T APPROVE NEW RULES UNTIL
[00:40:01]
WE, UNTIL YOU SUSPEND YOUR CURRENT RULES.DOES ANYONE ELSE INSULT TO ME? ASK QUESTION? NO, PLEASE PROCEED.
UM, SO I'M SMILING BECAUSE I'VE BEEN ON THIS COMMISSION, I DON'T KNOW, DONNA WOULD KNOW PROBABLY AROUND FIVE YEARS.
AND WE'VE NEVER HAD A, IT'S A, LIKE A LIVING DOCUMENT, 12 A THERE'S ALWAYS, ALWAYS CHANGES.
AND WHEN YOU USE THE WORD FINALIZE, IT MAKES ME SMILE BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN OR EXPERIENCED IT FINALIZED TO SEE THEY'RE GOING BACK TO COUNSEL.
IT TAKES, YOU KNOW, THREE, SIX MONTHS OR THEY'RE SIGNING OFF.
AND THEN IT COMES BACK TO US TO CHANGE A FEW WORDS.
AND IT'S ANOTHER 2, 3, 4 MONTHS.
AND I MEAN, IT'S, IT KIND OF LIKE CONSTANTLY TAKE, UH, GETTING HALFWAY TO THE DOOR.
WE NEVER REALLY MAKE IT TO THE DOOR.
AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT, UM, CRITICIZING ANY, UH, ANY PERSON, JUST LIKE THIS WHOLE PROCESS JUST FEELS SO FUTILE.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'LL EVER REACH OUR DESTINATION.
MORE OF A COMMON THAN QUESTION.
HOWARD, YOU HAD, YOU HAD A QUESTION? YEAH, I HAVE ACTUALLY TWO QUESTIONS.
UM, I GUESS I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED AT FIRST.
UH, ARE WE VOTING OR IS THE ISSUE SUSPENDING SECTION 1.3? OR IS THE ISSUE SUSPENDING THE RULES OF PROCEDURE? CAUSE I'VE HEARD TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
THE MOTION SHOULD BE TO SUSPEND, UH, THE RULES OF PROCEDURE AS TO SECTION 1.3.
SO WOULD BE SUSPENDING SECTION 1.3.
UH, SECOND QUESTION IS WHAT RIGHT OR POWER DO WE HAVE TO SUSPEND THAT PARTICULAR RULE OR SECTION? UH, THAT, OKAY, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
UH, THAT COMES FROM PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE.
ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER ALLOWS FOR SUSPENSION OF PROCEDURAL RULES FOR A BODY TO MOVE FORWARD.
AND LAURA, IF WE SUSPEND, WHICH I GUESS WE KIND OF ALREADY HAVE, BUT IF WE SUSPEND AND THEN WE HAVE SOME DEBATE ON, LIKE, I HAVE A COUPLE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME OF THE TIMING AND RESPONSE PERIOD AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
IF WE DON'T ULTIMATELY REACH RESOLUTION, WHICH I THINK ULTIMATELY WE SHOULD, ON ITEM NUMBER SIX, WOULD WE THEN REINSTATE? CAUSE THE REALITY IS, YOU'RE RIGHT, LIKE THE OLD RULES REFLECT SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE A NO-BRAINER THAT WE SHOULD SUSPEND, AND I KNOW THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE IDEA.
AND THEN I GUESS MY POINT IS, IF FOR SOME REASON WE DON'T REACH SOME, WE DON'T LAND THE PLANE ON ITEM SIX, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WOULD BE JUST HAVE TO REINSTATE THE PRIOR RULES.
NO, THE SUSPENSION OF THE RULES IS JUST FOR THIS MEETING, FOR THIS AGENDA.
SO IS THERE A MOTION I, I WOULD MOVE TO SUSPEND, UM, THE EA RULES OF PROCEDURE SECTION 1.3.
ALL IN FAVOR? ANY OPPOSED? MOTION, CARRIE? SO WE NOW MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, WHICH IS THE APPROVAL OF THE INTERIM, UM, ETHICS ADVISORY COMMISSION HEARING PROCEDURES, UM, THE INTERIM HEARING PROCEDURES HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO THE COMMISSION.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE INTERIM HEARING PROCEDURES, MR. SCHMIDT? WELL, I, I, I JUST, I WILL, I PROMISE I'LL BE EASY.
I JUST HAVE JUST SOME PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS AND IT'S THE LAWYER IN THE, I JUST WANTED TO THINK THROUGH THE TIMING.
SO, UM, BASICALLY, SO LET'S SAY, I'M JUST GONNA USE HYPOTHETICAL.
THAT'S THE BEST WAY FOR ME TO EXPLAIN.
SO LET'S SAY THAT MR. BEAVERS GETS A COMPLAINT, OR HE, HE KIND OF ALLUDED TO ONE THAT MIGHT BE D COMING DOWN THERE, COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE.
SO, UM, THERE WOULD BE, IT'S, OKAY, SO UNDER 3.1, YOU WOULD FILE THAT CASE TO THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE.
WITHIN FIVE DAYS, WE, UH, THE CITY, UH, CITY SECRETARY WOULD ASSIGN A PANEL.
SO MY FIRST HANG WITH ME HERE, BUT MY FIRST QUESTION IS, IS THAT ALL OF US OR IS THAT JUST A, A SUBGROUP? THAT WOULD BE RANDOMLY ASIDE.
UH, CHAPTER 12 A SAYS A HEARING PANEL IS FIVE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
AND IT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT, WOULD IT BE RANDOM OR, YES, RANDOMLY.
AND JUST LIKE, JUST LIKE I KNOW DONNA WILL DO.
IN THE PAST, IF, IF I WASN'T AVAILABLE AND I WAS SELECTED, THEN YOU MIGHT CALL PAN.
[00:45:01]
10 DAYS PRIOR TO THE HEARING WRITTEN NOTICE.AND I'M JUST THINKING LOGISTICALLY, LIKE MR. BEAVERS, I KNOW THAT NOW AT THIS POINT, IF IT'S GETTING TO YOU, IT'S A SERIOUS, IF IT'S GOTTEN THROUGH YOUR TEAM, IT'S A PRETTY SERIOUS ISSUE.
SO I KNOW LAST, I KNOW IN THE PAST, BEFORE YOU WERE HERE, WE DEALT WITH A LOT OF LIKE LOGISTICS AND SCHEDULING ISSUES AND PEOPLE CANCELING.
NOT ON OUR END NECESSARILY, BUT PEOPLE WANT THEIR LAWYER THERE.
MR. BEAVERS WILL NOW NEED TO BE THERE, HE'LL HAVE A WITNESSES.
AND SO I'M JUST CURIOUS, LAURA, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS THE REALITY? DO YOU THINK WE REALLY WILL SHOOT FOR TRYING TO GET THIS DONE IN ABOUT A 10 DAY TIME FROM THE, FROM THE MOMENT THAT MR. BEAVER'S FILES? IS THAT THE, IS THAT THE GOAL? UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE GOAL.
UM, THAT'S JUST AT LEAST 10 DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING IS SET.
SO DO WE HAVE A, SO I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I THINK IDEAL, YOU KNOW, REALISTICALLY THE HEARING'S GONNA BE SET FOR A TIME THAT WORKS FOR THE PARTIES INVOLVED, THE MEMBERS OF THE PANEL WHO ARE INVOLVED.
UM, YOU KNOW, CAUSE THE LAST THING WE ALL WANT IS TO SET A HEARING DATE THE ONLY THREE OF THE FIVE MEMBERS CAN MAKE, SO, RIGHT.
AND THAT, AND THE REASON I'M ASKING THIS IS EVERYTHING AFTER THIS KIND OF COMES JUST LIKE IF I WAS, YOU KNOW, FILING A MOTION FOR SOMEBODY JUDGMENT OR SOMETHING IN MY PROFESSION, EVERYTHING WORKS BACKWARDS.
AND SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE, THAT THE RESPONDENT WOULD HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO GET THE COMPLAINT FROM MR. BEAVER'S TO PROCESS IT, POTENTIALLY HIRE AN ATTORNEY, UM, AND THEN, UH, AND THEN FILE WHAT IS A, HOPEFULLY A SUBSTANTIVE RESPONSE.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WILL BE SOME FLEXIBILITY, LIKE WHEN THE HEARING IS SET, DEPENDING ON ALL THESE THINGS.
IS THAT RIGHT? YEAH, THERE WILL BE A LOT OF FACTORS INVOLVED IN SETTING THE HEARING DATE.
AND, AND I SUSPECT PERHAPS DIFFERENT IN THE PAST WHERE EVERYTHING WORKED BY SYSTEM THAT, UH, COMPLAINTS GONNA BE FILED, RESPONDENT IS GONNA BE AWARE OF IT WELL IN ADVANCE WHEN THE HEARING SET RIGHT.
DISCUSSIONS THAT COULD RANGED ANYWHERE FROM THE REVOLUTION OF IT, SEVEN OF IT COMING BEFORE AND THEN ON THE SUBPOENAS.
SO WE'VE NEVER, I REMEMBER READING ABOUT MR. BEAVER'S JOB RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE PAST, AND I, I KNEW THAT WAS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, AND YOU HAVE THAT POWER, MR. BEAVERS.
AND SO THIS IS NEW, RIGHT? LIKE HAVE WE IN THE PAST, HAVE WE BEEN ABLE TO SUBPOENA? YES, WE HAVE.
THE EAC HAS HAD SUBPOENA POWER.
UM, AND SO MR. BEAVER, AM I ALLOWED TO ASK MR. BEAVERS A QUESTION? SURE.
UM, MR. BEAVERS ARE, HAVE YOU BEEN LIKE, FOR SOME OF THESE, UM, CASES OUT OF THE THREE 16, I KNOW YOU THERE'S SOME CONFIDENTIALITY OF THIS, BUT HAVE, HAVE YOU BEEN ISSUING SUBPOENAS AS PART OF SOME OF THOSE PROCESSES? NOT YET.
A 47 SAYS THAT WE CAN ISSUE SUBPOENAS IF WE FOLLOW THE PROCEDURES SET OUT IN 12 A 26 SUBSECTION D WHEN I GO TO 2012, A 26 SUBSECTION D SUBPOENAS ARE NOT MENTIONED.
IT HAS TO DO WITH PRIOR REPRESENTATION.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S A TYPO.
IF YOU LOOK AT SECTION 12, A 50 SUBSECTION D THE WORD SUBPOENA IS MENTIONED 10 OR 11 TIMES.
SO I THINK IT'S PRETTY, PRETTY CLEAR THAT IT WAS A TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR.
SO, UM, I HAVE EVERY INTENTION OF FILING SOME SUBPOENAS IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I FOLLOW THE RULES.
AND I THINK FOR ME, I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S A TYPO.
SO I'M GOING TO FOLLOW WHAT I BELIEVE ARE THE PROCEDURES LAID OUT IN 12 A 50 SUBSECTION D, WHICH MENTIONS THE EACS PROCEDURES FOR SUBMITTING SUBPOENAS.
AND I WOULD FILL OUT AN APPLICATION, FILE IT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.
AND I BELIEVE I COULD DO THAT IN GOOD FAITH.
BUT, UH, I HAVEN'T ISSUED ANY SUBPOENAS YET BECAUSE I READ EVERYTHING WITH A MICROSCOPE.
I SPOTTED THAT, AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTED AND IT WILL IN DUE TIME.
BUT IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION AS TO WHY I HAVEN'T SOUGHT A SUBPOENA AT THIS POINT.
HAS THAT THOUGH HINDERED? HAVE THERE BEEN TIMES WHERE, WHERE YOU'VE BEEN IN A POSITION WHERE, HEY, IT WOULD BE, IF SOMEONE IS CLAIMING THAT, YOU KNOW, GRANT SCHMIDT AND TIM POWERS WERE TEXTING ABOUT SOMETHING AND, YOU KNOW, INAPPROPRIATE, AND YOU, I I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GONNA ULTIMATELY WORK, THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN, BUT, UM, BETWEEN THE TWO OF US.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT WANNA SUBPOENA
[00:50:01]
THOSE TEXTS JUST TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT IF EITHER ONE OF US REFUSED TO PRODUCE THEM.AND SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES IN WHICH YOU'VE BEEN, YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO YOUR JOB AND YOU'VE BEEN INHIBITED BECAUSE OF THAT, UH, THAT POWER DOES NOT YET RESIDE IN THE RULES.
I GUESS FORMALLY, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY EXAMPLES LIKE THAT.
UM, NOW THESE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE SUBPOENAS AND THERE'S ALWAYS THE RISK WITH AN ADMINISTRATIVE SUBPOENA THAT WHEN A BANK RECEIVES IT OR A BUSINESS OVER HERE RECEIVES IT, RIGHT? OR A CELL PHONE CARRIER RECEIVES IT BECAUSE YOU WANT SOME CELL SITE LOCATION INFORMATION THAT THEY MAY SAY, NO, WE'RE NOT GIVING IT TO YOU.
IT'S NOT A CRIMINAL CASE, IT'S NOT CIVIL LITIGATION.
THERE'S ALWAYS THE RISK THAT THAT COULD OCCUR.
I TRIED TO DEAL WITH THAT RISK, AS YOU GUYS MAY RECALL BACK IN THE SUMMER WHEN I BEGAN TO SEND OUT EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS AND LETTERS TO ALL THE BANK PRESIDENTS IN THE DALLAS AREA, TRYING TO GET A SIT DOWN WITH THEM AND BEGIN DEVELOPING A RELATIONSHIP.
BECAUSE I KNOW AT SOME POINT WE ARE GONNA BE SENDING STUFF OUT TO BANKS, AND I WOULD LIKE THAT PROCESS TO BE SMOOTH.
AND THAT USUALLY BECOMES SMOOTH BECAUSE YOU'VE TAKEN THE TIME TO DEVELOP RELATIONSHIPS.
AND SO I DID, I MET WITH MANY BANKERS, BUT THEN THERE WERE JUST AS MANY THAT IGNORED MY EMAILS, MY PHONE CALLS, MY SNELL MAIL LETTERS, UH, AND THAT AND SUCH.
BUT TO ADDRESS YOUR ISSUE, UM, THESE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE SUBPOENAS, AND IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT SHAKES OUT WHEN WE START FILING, UH, FILING REQUEST FORM.
UM, MS. MORRISON, LET ME JUST SEE IF I CAN BRING UP AN ISSUE HERE WITH RESPECT TO THIS CROSS-REFERENCE BUST, UM, TRUSTING THAT WE CAN WORK THAT INTO THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEFORE THE COMMITTEE RIGHT NOW THAT'S ALREADY IN THE DRAFTS.
UM, JENNA, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS SPECIFICALLY REFERS TO THE, THESE INTERIM RULES, BUT I'M CURIOUS HOW THIS HEARING PROCESS FITS WITH YOUR POSITION ON CONFIDENTIALITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REPORTING ETHICS VIOLATIONS.
LIKE HOW DO THOSE TWO MEET? THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.
UH, THE ORDINANCE, THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL HAS THE AUTHORITY TO, UH, MAKE CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION PUBLIC AT ANY TIME.
IT ALLUDES TO IT BY MENTIONING THAT WHEN I HAVE MADE SOMETHING PUBLIC.
SO TO ME THAT KIND OF CONNOTES THAT THERE IS SOME THINKING BEHIND THAT.
AND IT IS MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION THAT WHEN WE FINISH A CASE AND WE HAVE 200 PAGES OF DOCUMENTS, UH, SUPPORTING AS EXHIBITS, AND WHEN I TAKE THAT AND FILE THAT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE, IT IS MY OPINION AT THAT MOMENT, IT BECOMES PUBLIC INFORMATION.
NOW, THERE MAY BE SOME ATTORNEYS ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR THAT SAY, YEAH, IT'S PUBLIC, BUT IF SOMEBODY FILES AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST, THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYTHING'S RELEASABLE.
SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT ONCE I FILE A CASE, IT BECOMES PUBLIC INFORMATION.
SOMEBODY FILES AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST TO GET THOSE DOCUMENTS.
THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT ATTORNEYS INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS COULD REDACT CERTAIN INFORMATION TO PROTECT PEOPLE.
AND THAT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE IN MY MIND.
BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I DO BELIEVE IT BECAUSE BECOMES PUBLIC WHEN I FILE IT.
AND I, AND I THINK ALL OF OUR HEARINGS HAVE BEEN PUBLIC IN CASE ONCE, ONCE, UM, THE COMPLAINT COMES FORWARD, THE CONFIDENTIALITY'S GONE.
I'LL JUST ADD, UM, LIKE THE CHAIR JUST SAID, OUR, OUR MEETINGS, UH, THE MEETINGS OF THIS COMMISSION, THE REGULAR MEETINGS AND ALSO THE EVIDENTIARY HEARINGS ARE SUBJECT TO THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
SO I THINK PERHAPS MAYBE ANSWERING THE REAL QUESTION YOU HAVE IS THAT THE NEW PROCEDURES THAT HAVE BEEN SET UP UNDER THE NEW SECTION 12 A ALLOW THE INVESTIGATION, ALLOW THE INSPECTOR GENERAL TO GO THROUGH TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT HE BELIEVES THAT THAT A CASE CAN BE PROSECUTED.
I THINK THAT IT, THE REDACTING OF OPEN RECORDS.
ANY OTHER QUESTION? MR. MR. I'M, I'M SORRY.
COUPLE MORE THAT YOU'VE GOT, JUST A COUPLE MORE.
THE CLEAR, THE CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE PIECE I KNOW IS THAT'S SOMEWHAT, WE'RE NOT CHANGE, THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN CHANGE THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S SET IN, THAT'S BEEN SET IN 12 EIGHT, BUT I KNOW THAT IS
[00:55:01]
UNIQUE.UM, AT LEAST MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THAT'S UNIQUE IN, IN TERMS OF BEING A HIGHER BAR THAN OTHER MUNICIPAL, THAN OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.
IS THAT RIGHT? WE'RE, WE'RE THE ONLY INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES THAT HAS THAT BURDEN FOR ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS.
AND, AND THE REASON I'M ASKING THAT IS, IS, I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE THAT SITTING HERE TODAY, UM, BUT THAT'S, IT IS THE CASE.
SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD EXPLORE DOWN THE ROAD LIKE MR. BEAVERS? IS THAT, IS THAT A HINDRANCE FOR YOU IN, IN WHAT YOUR TEAM IS NAVIGATING WHERE YOU'RE SEEING THINGS OUT OF THE 316 COMPLAINTS AND YOU'RE GUT CHECKING IT WITH YOUR FELLOW ATTORNEYS, REALIZING IT'S NOT REACHING A CLEAR AND CONVINCING THRESHOLD, BUT BUT WOULD OTHERWISE BE, UM, WORTHY OF RAISING WITH US? IS THAT HAPPENING? I'VE RAISED THAT ISSUE, AND I THINK THAT'S A DECISION THAT'S MADE FAR ABOVE MY PAY GRADE.
I'VE TOLD EVERYBODY THAT WE'LL, LISTEN, MY OPINION ON THAT, UM, THAT I DON'T WANNA BE THE ONLY INSPECTOR GENERAL IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY THAT HAS CLEAR AND CONVINCING ON ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD.
UM, I GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE, THE, UH, THE GOOD FOLKS WHO RUN THIS FINE CITY MAKE AS FAR AS A DECISION IS CONCERNED ON POSSIBLY CHANGING THAT.
YOU KIND OF, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAID OR INSINUATED, HEY, HAVE YOU NOT FILED CASES BECAUSE YOU'RE THE ONLY GUY IN THE COUNTRY WITH THAT BURDEN? UM, THAT DOES FACTOR INTO MY THINKING.
YOUR NEXT QUESTION IS GONNA BE, SO IF THE STANDARD WAS CHANGED THIS MORNING, HOW MANY YOU GOT IN THE PIPELINE THAT YOU'RE READY TO FILE NEXT WEEK? THAT WOULD BE A GOOD QUESTION.
I COULDN'T REALLY GIVE YOU AN HONEST ANSWER ON THAT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.
UM, BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WE ARE THE ONLY IG OFFICE IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAS THAT STANDARD, AND THAT'S THE REALITY THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.
NOW, DOES CITY COUNCIL KNOW THAT, I MEAN, YOU'VE MADE THAT CLEAR CITY COUNCIL.
I THINK I'VE MENTIONED IT TO EVERY CITY COUNCIL MEMBER THAT I'VE PERSONALLY MET.
I I DON'T KNOW IF, I'M SURE THAT SOME OF THEM WOULD REMEMBER IT.
I'M I'M SURE SOME OF 'EM WOULD PROBABLY SAY, YEAH, HE'S BROUGHT IT UP MULTIPLE TIMES, SO OKAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO VISIT WITH, WITH THOSE FOLKS.
MR. MORRISON, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN CONSIDERED IN THE FURTHER REVISIONS? 12, RIGHT? THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN BRIEFED TO THE COMMITTEE, UM, BUT IT IS, UM, PART OF OUR INTERNAL, UM, DIALOGUE THAT WE'VE HAD ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR.
SHOULD YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER DIALOGUE WITH REGARD TO THAT SINCE WE'RE INSTALLED WITH REGARD TO THE COMMITTEE AND SEE IF WE CAN POTENTIALLY CHANGE THAT? THAT IS SOMETHING I BELIEVE, UM, THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS TOLD THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, UM, THAT IF HE WANTS TO BRING THAT UP TO THE AD HOC COMMITTEE, UM, THAT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DISCUSSED.
AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL COULD AMEND WITH THESE, WITH THESE CHANGES, DAVID MM-HMM.
IS THAT, UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROCEED IN THAT REGARD? I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE FOR US TO GET IN LINE WITH ALL THE OTHER HUNDREDS OF IG OFFICES AROUND THE COUNTRY.
UM, WHEN I WENT BACK, I'M GONNA TAKE, I'M GONNA TAKE THAT AS A YES, THEN YES, SIR.
YES, SIR, I WILL, I WILL MOVE FORWARD AND, AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT I WANT.
AND THEN, UH, LET THE POWERS THAT BE MAKE THE DECISIONS THAT THEY MAKE.
YEAH, I, I GUESS I LOOK AT THIS AS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IS THIS ISSUE OF WHAT'S LEGAL MAY NOT BE ETHICAL AND WHAT'S ETHICAL MAY NOT BE LEGAL.
AND THAT SORT OF FITS INTO THIS IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE THIS TIGHT CASE AND, AND IT, IT HAS TO HIT ALL THOSE LEGAL POINTS, BUT IT MAY BE VERY UNETHICAL AND THEREFORE WE OUGHT TO BE BRINGING IT UP AND IT OUGHT TO BE COMING TO US.
SO FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH, UM, THE BIO, THE ETHICISTS TALK A LOT ABOUT, IT MAY NOT BE LEGAL, BUT IT IS ETHICAL.
IT MAY BE ETHICAL, BUT IT MAY NOT BE ILLEGAL.
AND FOR WHATEVER THAT'S WORTH, UM, MAYBE THE LAY PEOPLE LIKE US, LIKE ME, UM, FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR POSITION, UM, WOULD CONSIDER THAT YOU DON'T NEED THOSE THINGS IN THERE TO BRING THE CASE TO THE COUNCIL.
FIRST OF ALL, SUSAN, I THINK THAT'S A BRILLIANT INSIGHT.
THAT'S AS THE OTHER LAYMAN ON THE COM COMMISSION, ALL THE POWER TO YOU VERSUS ALL THE POWERS TO YOU.
HEY, WHOS, I'LL BE HERE ALL WEEK, UH, AS WE REPRESENT EACH ONE
[01:00:01]
OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS.AND, UH, I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO HELP MOVE ALONG THE PROCESS.
LIKE I, I REPRESENT PAUL, SO SHOULD I BE TALKING TO PAUL ABOUT SOMETHING HE SAID TO ANY OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT YOU COULD CONNECT WITH? IF THERE'S SOMEONE THAT YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO CONNECT WITH, MY PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION IS USE ME.
MY RECOMMENDATION TO YOU WOULD BE USE ME AS A, I'M A REP.
IF PAUL'S NOT GETTING BACK TO YOU, I HAVE D I'M ONE OF HIS COMMISSIONERS AND I CAN GET BACK TO, I CAN GET ON TOP OF 'EM TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS.
I, I HAVE NEVER HAD A COUNCIL MEMBER NOT GET BACK WITH ME.
I THOUGHT I HEARD THAT THEY, THAT SOMEONE, THERE WERE SOME THAT YOU HAD, I THINK THOSE IN THE BACK CUSTOMER.
OH, BANK PRESIDENT, CITY COUNCIL MEMBER.
MR. SCHMIDT, TWO, TWO MORE THINGS AND THEN I WANNA BE RESPECTFUL OF, AND THEN YOU'RE EXHAUSTED AND YES.
QUESTION JUST FOR THESE UPCOMING HEARINGS, I KNOW IT SAYS HERE ABOUT LIKE, MR. BEAVERS YOU'LL PRESENT.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THE PROSECUTOR.
UM, SO YOU'LL GIVE THE OPENING STATEMENT.
AND THEN LAURA, ARE WE ALLOWING, SO EACH PARTY CAN, UH, BRING WITNESSES, I IMAGINE JUST LIKE A MINI TRIAL, WILL THERE BE SOME, I IMAGINE MR. BEAVERS IS GONNA WANT TO KNOW WHO, IF THERE'S AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AGAINST ME, UM, WHO MY WITNESSES ARE, UM, AND I DIDN'T SEE, LIKE IF THERE'RE GONNA BE SOME NOTIFICATION OR REQUIREMENT OF THAT, OR MAYBE NOT.
MAYBE I JUST BRING WHOEVER I WANT.
WE DON'T HAVE THAT IN CHAPTER 12 A.
UM, SO IF YOU WANTED TO ADD THAT TO THESE PROCEDURAL RULES THAT, UM, EACH PARTY HAS TO DISCLOSE TO THE OTHER THEIR WITNESS LIST, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD ADD, WHICH WOULDN'T, UM, CONTRADICT ANYTHING IN 12 A BECAUSE 12 A IS SILENT TO THAT.
I WOULD JUST, RIGHT, I I WOULD, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT IF POSSIBLE, AND AN EXHIBIT LIST JUST SO MR. BEAGER AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GONNA USE ME AS THE HYPOTHE ME AS THE SCAPEGOAT, BUT MY ATTORNEY WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE IT.
IT'S, IT'S A BETTER WAY OF PURSUING JUSTICE IF, IF EVERYBODY HAS NOBODY'S, NOBODY'S AMBUSHED, UM, AT THE, AT THE HEARING.
UM, AND THEN CROSS-EXAMINATION WILL BE ALLOWED, RIGHT? YES.
BUT MR. BEAVERS CAN ASK THOSE WITNESSES QUESTIONS.
AND I GUESS I WOULD JUST ADD IN MAKING, SUGGESTING THIS ALREADY IS THAT THERE'S A SHARING OF, OF EVIDENCE RIGHT.
SO WHAT I SHOULD I, AT THE END OF, I'VE GOT ONE LAST QUESTION, I PROMISE.
AND THEN SHOULD WE MOVE FOR THAT CHANGE, UH, MAYBE WE CAN SEE IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANY OTHER CHANGE.
RIGHT? SO IF THE MAKER OF THE MOTION WANTS THAT, ONCE THOSE THINGS INCLUDED IN THESE PROCEDURES, THE MOTION WOULD BE I MOVE TO APPROVE THE PROCEDURES AS SUBMITTED WITH THE ADDITION OF THE REQUIREMENT THAT EACH PARTY SHARE WITH THE OTHER, A WITNESS LIST AND AN AN EXHIBIT LIST AND MAYBE PUT A TI A TIMEFRAME ON IT, RIGHT? LIKE SO MANY DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING.
UM, MAYBE 48 HOURS, MAYBE MORE.
WELL, BECAUSE THE, RIGHT NOW THE RULE IS THAT THE RESPONDENT HAS, THEY CAN, UH, THEY CAN FILE THEIR RESPONSE FIVE DAYS BEFORE, YEAH.
AND SO IT'S INTERESTING, I GUESS, AND, AND MR. BEAVERS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REPLY THAT RESPONSE, IS THAT RIGHT? RIGHT.
SO, BUT MR. BEAVERS WOULD NEED TO, IF I WERE IN ISSUES, I'D WANT TO SEE WHAT THE RESPONSE IS THAT'S GONNA FORMULATE MY WITNESS LIST.
SO YEAH, I THINK MAYBE WE DO 48 HOURS AHEAD OF TIME.
UM, MY LAST QUESTION, I REMEMBER WE TALKED, WHEN I THINK MR. BEAVER'S FIRST TOOK HIS POSITION, WAS THE POSSIB.
I THINK THIS IS THE SAME CONTEXT, THE POSSIBILITY OF, OF SETTLING IN EFFECT.
AND, AND I'M WONDERING THAT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S CONTEMPLATED IN 3.14, WHICH IS THIS DISMISSAL CONCEPT WHERE IT SAYS THE PARTIES MAY JOINTLY MOVE TO DISMISS.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING, YOU KNOW, MR. BEATERS, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHEN WOULD THAT, IT STRIKES ME THAT AFTER, UNLESS YOU HAVE LIKE SOME REVELATION AT THE HEARING WHERE YOU HEAR SOMEBODY'S PERSPECTIVE AND THEN YOU REALIZE, OKAY, NOW THAT'S, UM, THAT IS A TOTAL PARADIGM SHIFT FOR ME.
AND, AND WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE TO DISMISS.
I GUESS THAT'S ONE POSSIBILITY, IS THE OTHER POSSIBILITY.
IF, IF THE TRIAL AGAINST ME, FOR EXAMPLE, IS GOING SO POORLY, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO REACH SOME TYPE OF RESOLUTION? BECAUSE THE, THE NEXT STEP IS SANCTIONS, RIGHT? AND LIKE THE, THE DEGREE OF SANCTIONS THAT WE WOULD IMPOSE.
AND IF I REALIZE THE CASE AGAINST ME IS SO BAD THAT I WANT TO REACH A DEAL, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS POSSIBLE, I'M JUST IS THAT, ARE
[01:05:01]
WE, ARE WE CONTEMPLATING THAT WHERE FOLKS CAN, CAN ENTER SOME TYPE OF, UH, RESOLUTION JUST LIKE THEY WOULD IN A CIVIL OR CRIMINAL CASE, UM, FOR A LESSER SENTENCE OR A LESSER PUNISHMENT? IN A SENSE, THAT LANGUAGE IS IN THE ETHICS ORDINANCE, THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS MM-HMM.AND AFTER GOING OVER THAT WITH THE EMPLOYMENT ATTORNEYS AT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THE CONCLUSION WAS ARRIVED AT THAT THE ETHICS ORDINANCE CANNOT BE READ SEPARATE AND APART FROM THE CITY CHARTER AND THE PERSONNEL RULES, WE CAN'T TAKE THE ETHICS ORDINANCE AND RUN OVER IN THE CORNER AND READ WHAT IT SAYS AND INTERPRET IT.
WE HAVE TO DO IT IN LIGHT OF OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT ARE AT PLAY, WHICH I AGREE WITH.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, BECAUSE OF THE PERSONNEL ROLES IN THE CITY CHARTER AND THE FACT THAT THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS GOING ON OUTSIDE OF THIS DOCUMENT, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ENGAGE IN SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATIONS WITH EMPLOYEES.
SO IF WE FILE A CASE AGAINST AN EMPLOYEE, WHETHER THAT PERSON IS CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTED OR NOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ENGAGE THAT PERSON IN PLEA NEGOTIATIONS OR SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATIONS.
NOW, THAT PERSON WILL HAVE THE OPTION TO COME IN HERE AND PLEAD TRUE ON THE DAY OF THE HEARING, BUT I GUESS WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
UH, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE, I'VE GOT A CHART IN OUR APPENDICES OF OUR STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES THAT PUTS US ALL ON ONE PAGE.
THERE ARE FOLKS THAT IF WE FILE A CASE AGAINST LIKE CERTAIN CITY OFFICIALS WHERE WE CAN ENGAGE IN SETTLEMENT AND NEGOTIATIONS, BUT, UM, NOT WITH EMPLOYEES.
THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING ALL THOSE QUESTIONS.
I, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AND I'LL JUST WAIT AND THEN I CAN MOVE FOR THE PROCEDURE ADDITION THAT WE MENTIONED.
I'M JUST CURIOUS, WHAT IS THE STANDARD APPROVED, UH, THE MAJORITY OF IG OFFICES? UH, I'M SORRY, I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.
WHAT IS THE STANDARD OF PROOF THAT THE, IF IT'S NOT CLEAR AND CONVINCING, WHAT IS IT? UH, IT'S PREPONDERANCE.
THERE'S THREE STANDARDS BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, CLEAR AND CONVINCING PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE.
WHEN I WENT BACK TO GET RE-CERTIFIED IN AUGUST, THAT WAS ONE OF THE TEST QUESTIONS TO PASS THE C I G EXAM IS WHAT STANDARD DO ALL INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICES USE ON ADMINISTRATIVE CASES? IF I THE CORRECT ANSWER, IF YOU WANT TO GET IT RIGHT AS YOU SAY PREPONDERANCE.
SO WE WERE AN ASTERISK AND, AND JUST ONE CLARIFICATION.
WHEN WE MAKE THE AMENDMENT, UM, WE MAY WANT TO, IF I HEARD CORRECTLY AT ONE POINT WE TALKED ABOUT EXHIBIT LIST VERSUS ACTUALLY EXHIBITS AND YOU KNOW, A LIST OF THE EXHIBITS AND THE EXHIBITS THEMSELVES.
SO I GUESS WE NEED TO DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOING TO PROVIDE THE ACTUAL DOCUMENTS.
THEY'RE GONNA PROVIDE A TRIAL OR JUST A LIST OF WHAT THEY'RE INTENDING TO PROVIDE.
CAUSE I THINK THAT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT AND I WOULD SAY BOTH.
WHEN YOU DO YOUR MOTION, I WOULD JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, UH, INCLUDE, UH, THE WITNESS LIST, AN EXHIBIT LIST, AND A COPY OF ALL THE DOCKET OF THE EXHIBITS OR SOMETHING.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? JAD HOWARD? THERE BEING NO FURTHER DISCUSSION MR. SCHMID, WHEN YOU MAKE THE MOTION? SURE.
SO I WOULD, I WILL MOVE, UH, TO APPROVE THE INTERIM EAC HEARING PROCEDURES WITH THE ADDITION THAT, UM, TWO DAYS BEFORE 48 HOURS, TWO DAYS BEFORE THE SCHEDULED HEARING, BOTH SIDES, SO THE RESPONDENT AND THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE FILE A WITNESS LIST AND, UM, AN EXHIBIT LIST REFLECTING THE DOCUMENTS AND WITNESSES THAT THEY WILL CALL OR USE AT, AT THE HEARING.
IN ADDITION, BOTH SIDES WILL ALSO PROVIDE AT LEAST 48 HOURS IN ADVANCE COPIES OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE REFLECTED IN THE EXHIBIT LIST.
THERE IS A MOTION BEFORE US THAT'S BEEN SECONDED.
AND WE, WITH THE CHANGES THAT MS. MORRISON WILL MAKE TO THE RULES OF PROCEDURE, WE NOW HAVE INTERIM RULES OF PROCEDURE.
I'LL MAKE THOSE ADDITIONS, UM, THAT THE MOTION SPOKE TO.
AND THEN, UM, THE CITY'S SECRETARY'S OFFICE, WE'LL MAKE SURE EVERYONE GETS AN ELECTRONIC COPY.
UM, WE'LL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE, UH, CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON MOVING FORWARD WITH OUR CHANGES.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ON THE, UH, UH, STANDARD OF, OF, UH, EVIDENCE THAT WE NEED TO, TO HAVE,
[01:10:01]
UM, THAT YOU'LL WORK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO, UH, TO GET THAT TEED UP SO WE CAN GET THAT CHANGE WHILE WE'RE GETTING THESE OTHER CHANGES MADE THAT I THINK WILL HAVE MADE THE WAIT WORTHWHILE.SO IF YOU'LL DO THAT AND, AND, UM, THERE ARE NO OTHER BUSINESS, UM, BEFORE THE COMMISSION.
UH, OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING IS SCHEDULED FOR JULY 18TH, 2023 AT 9:30 AM AND WITH NOTHING FURTHER ON THE AGENDA.
THE ETHICS ADVISORY COMMISSION IS CONCLUDED AT 10:45 AM ON TUESDAY, APRIL 18TH, 2023.