* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:02]
          GOOD 
          [Permit and License Appeal Board on June 1, 2023]
MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. 
          WELCOME TO THE HEARING OF THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS. 
          IT IS NOW 8 36 ON THURSDAY, JUNE 1ST, WE HAVE ONE HEARING ON TODAY'S AGENDA FOR LAZY ACRES CIRCLE HOLDING LP APPEALING NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          UH, AT THIS TIME, I'LL DO A ROLL CALL. 
          AND IF PRESENT, UH, PLEASE SAY HERE. 
          UH, MS. ARIANO. 
          HERE. 
          TOK. 
          MS. WILLIS? HERE. 
          MS. TORRES? HERE. 
          MR. CIA? HERE. 
          JEFF. 
          HERE. 
          MR. HAYES? HERE. 
          MR. QUINT? HERE. 
          MS. SHIN HERE. 
          UH, SO, UH, ABSENT FROM TODAY'S MEETING IS ONLY, UH, MS. A, WE HAVE A DEC QUORUM, AND THE MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER. 
          UH, AND WILL THE OTHERS PRESENT AT TODAY'S HEARING? PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, STARTING WITH THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL. 
          CASEY CHARGES MATTHEW SAB, AND, UH, FROM THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE. 
          MAYOR SLAVA MARTINEZ, DONNA BROWN, ASHLEY DELAROSA. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND FOR THE, UH, APPELLANT. 
          AND, UH, WHAT WITNESSES DO YOU HAVE, UH, WITH YOU TODAY? MILD. 
          NOW, COULD YOU ASK HIM TO TURN HIS MIC ON, PLEASE? OKAY. 
          YOU NEED, YOU NEED TO GET IT PROBABLY IN YOUR MOUTH, A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE MIC. 
          OKAY. 
          CARDO BYRON WILLIE, REPRESENTING THE APPELLANT. 
          UH, JOINED WITH ME IS, UH, I WITNESS, UH, MR. MICHAEL LEONARD, UH, SITTING TO MY RIGHT. 
          HE'S THE VICE PRESIDENT OF SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT, WHICH IS THE, UH, PRINCIPAL, UH, MANAGEMENT COMPANY FOR, UH, THE OWNER. 
          UH, AND TO HIS RIGHT IS MR. EDDIE GALL GALLAS, UH, WHO IS THE APARTMENT MANAGE MANAGER, AND, UH, FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. 
          CHARLOTTE O'REILLY WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. 
          I'M DETECTIVE NICK ST. 
          THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          I'M SORRY, DETECTIVE STOLAR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND, UH, JUST A REMINDER, I THINK EVERYBODY'S GOT THEIR VIDEO ON RIGHT NOW, BUT IF YOU ARE REMOTE, UH, IF YOU'RE A BOARD MEMBER, YOU MUST KEEP YOUR VIDEO ON. 
          AND THEN, OF COURSE, IF YOU ARE A WITNESS OR A PARTICIPANT, UM, YOU'LL NEED TO HAVE YOUR VIDEO AND AUDIO ON WHENEVER ADDRESSING THE BOARD. 
          UM, NOW IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD, HOWEVER, NO SPEAKERS HAVE REGISTERED TO ADDRESS THE BOARD TODAY. 
          ITEM NUMBER TWO, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES, OUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESSES TO REVIEW AND APPROVE THE MEETING. 
          MINUTES FROM MAY 4TH, 2023 MEETING. 
          IS THERE A MOTION REGARDING APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FOR MAY 4TH, 2023? I MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF MAY. 
          I'M SORRY, I WASN'T LOOKING WHO SAID THAT? ROBERT QUINN. 
          UH, MR. QUINN? YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND IS THERE A SECOND? BELIEVE THE SECOND. 
          MR. GEIS, UH, ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? DOES ANY BOARD MEMBER WISH TO COMMENT ON THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MAY 4TH MEETING? NO DISCUSSION. 
          WE WILL TAKE A VOTE. 
          UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR THE MAY 4TH MEETING. 
          UH, PLEASE SAY AYE. 
          AYE. 
          AYE. 
          AYE. 
          AYE. 
          ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY. 
          UH, THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. 
          THE NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS IS THE APPEAL REQUEST OF LAZY ACRE CIRCLE HOLDING LP APPEALING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY UNDER SECTION 27 DASH 51 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE. 
          THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPELLANT. 
          UM, AND AT THIS TIME, ANY WITNESSES WHO WISH TO TESTIFY 
          [00:05:01]
IN THE HEARING WILL BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE. 
          UH, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. 
          UH, SO YOU MAY BE SWORN. 
          DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU WILL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH? THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, AS THE TIME LIMIT FOR THE PRESENTATION, WILL, WOULD 30 MINUTES BE SUFFICIENT FOR EACH SIDE PLUS OPENING AND CLOSING? UH, 30 MINUTES IN ADDITION TO OPENING AND CLOSING YES. 
          WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE FELLOW? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL 30 MINUTES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          AND WE HAVE ALL OF THE EXHIBITS FOR, UH, THE, THE APPELLANT, MR. WOOLEY, WE'VE GOT 20 EXHIBITS. 
          DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? YES. 
          AND FOR THE CITY, WE'VE GOT ONE EXHIBIT. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SO THOSE EXHIBITS HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE. 
          AND, UH, MR. BURGESS, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UH, READ THE RELEVANT ORDINANCE? SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SECTIONS OF THE CODE, UH, FOR YOU, FOR YOU GUYS TODAY. 
          FIRST IS SECTION 27 48, SUBSECTIONS A AND C. 
          SO, SUBSECTION A IS A PROPERTY'S PRESUMED A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY THAT THE PROPERTY IS THE SITE, ONE OF FIVE OR MORE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES WITHIN 365 DAYS, RESULTING IN EITHER A REPORT OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY DOCUMENTING AN INVESTIGATION OF AN AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY OR ENFORCEMENT ACTION AGAINST ANY PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY. 
          AND TWO, AT WHICH PERSONS HAVE HISTORICALLY COMMITTED AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ACCORDING TO RECENT CRIME DATA. 
          AND THEN C AS AN OWNER OF HABITUAL OR, UH, CRIMINAL PROPERTY IS PRESUMED TO HAVE KNOWINGLY TOLERATED THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT THE OWNER'S PROPERTY BY FILLING AND TAKE REASONABLE STEPS, INCLUDING THOSE OUTLINED IN SECTION 27 49 TO ABATE THE AB DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OR CODE VIOLATIONS. 
          AND THEN THE SECOND SECTION, UH, FOR YOU GUYS TODAY IS SECTION 27 51 C AND SAYS, IN DECIDING THE APPEAL, THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD IS LIMITED TO THE ISSUES OF WHETHER THE PRESUMPTIONS OF SECTION 27 48. 
          UH, THOSE ARE THE, I JUST READ IN WHETHER THOSE ARE SATISFIED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, BEGINNING WITH THE, UH, APPELLANT, WE'LL HAVE, UH, RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES FOR OPENING STATEMENT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, THANK YOU, FIRST OF ALL TO THOSE MEMBERS OF, OF THE BOARD THAT ARE, ARE SERVING HERE AND, AND HELPING US THROUGH THIS, UH, PROCESS. 
          AND, UH, WHAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT TO YOU IS, IS AS FOLLOWING UP WITH WHAT MR. BURGESS TOLD YOU, YOU'VE GOT A JOB THAT IS FOCUSED, UH, ESSENTIALLY ON DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THE PRESUMPTION THAT, UH, THE CITY, UH, THROUGH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS MADE AS THESE CRIMES BEING AVAILABLE. 
          KEY WORD, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE GO THROUGH THE EVIDENCE. 
          AND TWO, WHETHER OR NOT, UH, ANY VIOLATIONS WERE COMMITTED KNOWINGLY, AS MR. BURGESS POINTED OUT, SECTION 27.48 A AND C, UH, REFERENCE THOSE MATTERS. 
          AND THEN 27 51 SAYS, YOUR JOB IS TO DETERMINE IF THE PRESUMPTION IS SATISFIED. 
          NOW, I'M JUST NO COUNTRY BOY FROM WAXAHACHIE, AND I, I, I, I TRIED LAWSUITS IN THE CIVIL COURTS, AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT BURDEN OF PROOF IS. 
          IT IS THE CITY'S POSITION THAT IT IS OUR BURDEN OF PROOF, UM, TO PROVE TO YOU THAT THEY WEREN'T SATISFIED. 
          THAT'S NOT HOW I READ THE STATUTE. 
          BUT WE WON'T GET INTO ARGUMENTS ON SEMANTICS OR THE LEGAL THING. 
          WE'LL JUST GO WITH THE ASSUMPTION HERE THAT IN FACT, WE NEED TO PRESENT SOME EVIDENCE THAT IT'S ENOUGH FOR THE, UH, CITY JUST TO SAY SO. 
          AND THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY. 
          THE CITY HAS SAID THIS THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. 
          SO LET'S LOOK TO SEE IN OUR EVIDENCE THAT WE PRESENT TO YOU AS TO WHETHER OR NOT, UH, FIRST OF ALL, THE ACTIONS WHICH IN FACT, UH, HAVE BEEN CITED TO MY CLIENT, UH, ARE AVAILABLE. 
          AND OF COURSE AVAILABLE IS, IS IS THE KEY ISSUE THERE. 
          AND THEN WHETHER OR NOT MY CLIENT, BASICALLY THE ONE WAY OF OTHER OTHERWISE SAYING IT IS FLIPPANTLY IGNORED IT AND KNOWINGLY ALLOWED IT TO, TO EXIST, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA FIND THAT THE EVIDENCE THAT WE GO 
          [00:10:01]
THROUGH, UH, WILL, WILL, UH, SHOW THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE. 
          THAT THE PRESUMPTION IS REBUTTED ALL A PRESUMPTION. 
          IT IS NOT AN ABSOLUTE RULE OF LAW. 
          IT'S NOT STRICT LIABILITY. 
          A PRESUMPTION BY LAW IS SOMETHING THAT YOU START OFF WITH THE PRESUMPTION OF A FACT, AND THEN IT IS, QUOTE, REBUTTED, IF, IF IT CAN BE REBUTTED, WE WILL REBUT THOSE. 
          UH, POSITION TODAY IS OUR, OUR POSITION. 
          THE, UM, THE STATUTE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GOING UNDER PRETTY MUCH IRONICALLY, DOES NOT ADDRESS THIS IS DRAFTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          UM, UH, AND THAT'S WHAT THE, THAT'S WHAT THE CITY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GOES ON. 
          UH, IT, IT DOES NOT INDICATE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO DO ANYTHING MORE THAN JUST BASICALLY MAKE THIS ALLEGATION, AND THEN WE HAVE TO COME AND SHOW THAT WHAT WE DID. 
          ALTHOUGH THE CITY WILL TELL YOU THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE'VE DONE, WE'VE DOTTED EVERY I AND CROSSED EVERY T THAT THEY'VE ASKED US TO DO SINCE BRING IT TO OUR ATTENTION THAT THERE WERE ISSUES THEY WANTED US TO ADDRESS. 
          UH, WE'RE, WE'RE STILL GONNA BRING THAT TO YOU BECAUSE I THINK IT'S RELEVANT. 
          AND I, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING YOU WOULD WANNA KNOW. 
          I'D WANNA KNOW IF I WAS SITTING ON THE BOARD, UH, AS A CITIZEN OF DALLAS WANTING TO KNOW, UH, WHAT WAS GOING ON IS, DID MY CLIENT, UH, JUST IGNORE, UH, THIS, OR DID THEY IMMEDIATELY JUMP TO AND, AND START SAYING, OKAY, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'D LIKE US TO DO, UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE'LL DO THAT. 
          AND YOU'RE GONNA FIND THAT THE EVIDENCE IS GONNA PRESENT. 
          WE HAVE DOTTED OUR I AND CROSSED OUR TS ON EVERYTHING, AND THE ONLY THING THAT REMAINED HANGING OUT THERE IS, UH, GETTING THE CAMERAS INSTALLED. 
          AND THAT IS, UH, AT THE LAST MINUTE, ONCE WE HAD A CONTRACT, UH, DONE, THE, YOU'LL FIND THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THERE WAS SOME, UH, GLITCH WITH THE, UH, VENDOR, UH, LICENSE. 
          SO, SO WE'RE SITTING HERE WAITING ON THAT TO BE DONE. 
          BUT I THINK THAT'S RELEVANT, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY MAY TELL YOU IT'S NOT RELEVANT. 
          I THINK WHAT A PERSON DOES WHEN THEY'RE ASKED TO DO SOMETHING, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHEN THEY ARE NOTIFIED OF SUNDAY. 
          SO I THINK KEEP YOUR EAR PEELED. 
          DID THE CITY TELL US THIS? DID THE CITY INFORM US OF THESE PROBLEMS BEFORE DECEMBER 27TH, 2022 WHEN THEY SENT US A NOTICE LETTER? IT'S THEIR POSITION OF WHAT WE DID AFTER THAT DOESN'T MATTER OUR POSITION. 
          I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW WHAT WE DID. 
          NOW, WHAT IS MY CLIENT, UH, OTHER THAN JUST A NAME? MY CLIENT IS A LARGE APARTMENT COMPLEX. 
          IT IS, UH, BASICALLY BETWEEN COIT ROAD AND, UH, CENTRAL EXPRESSWAY, UH, AROUND SPRING VALLEY. 
          THAT GETS YOU SOME, UH, DYNAMICS OF THE GEOGRAPHY. 
          IT CONSISTS OF 243 UNITS IN 27 BUILDINGS. 
          UH, IT'S AN, IT IS AN OLDER PROPERTY, UH, AND IT SERVES, UH, THE, UH, SOMEWHAT LOW INCOME TO FLOW TO LOWER MIDDLE INCOME POPULACE, UH, AS, AS, AS THEIR HOUSING. 
          IT IS IN AN AREA AS WE UNDERSTAND IT, THAT HAS CRIMINAL PROBLEMS. AND I DON'T THINK THE CITY WILL DENY THAT THE WHOLE AREA HAS, UH, MAYBE SOME, SOME ISSUES THAT, UH, WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO, TO HAVE BETTER, UH, DONE. 
          UH, LASTLY, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT, UH, AS, AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, UH, OUR COMMENTS AND OUR TESTIMONY IS NOT A CRITICISM OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          I THINK THEY'RE UNDERFUNDED, THEY'RE UNDERLOVED, THEY'RE, THEY'RE OVERWORKED. 
          I'VE GOT FRIENDS IN THE DEPARTMENT, AND, UH, THEY'RE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN, BUT OBVIOUSLY, UH, THEY CAN ONLY BE SOME OF THE PLACES AT ONE TIME. 
          SO THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. 
          THE BIGGER ISSUE IS HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY, UH, IS TO BE PUT ON IN THIS INSTANCE, MY CLIENT IN ANY BUSINESS IN, UM, IN, IN TAKING THE LABORING ORE OF, UM, EVADING CRIME IN, IN THE CITY. 
          AND I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD AGREE THAT'S TYPICALLY GONNA BE THE, UH, LAW ENFORCEMENT, USUALLY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S YOUR TIME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. RILEY, DO YOU WANT, UH, OPENING STATEMENT? YES, BRIEFLY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES. 
          THANK YOU CHAIR, AND THANK YOU MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. 
          UM, TODAY, I EXPECT THAT YOU'LL HEAR VARIOUS REASONS WHY THOSE POTENTIAL C PROPERTY DESIGNATION SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED AT 83 78 GREEN VALLEY ROAD. 
          UM, MR. LEY REPRESENTED THAT HIS CLIENT HAS IMPLEMENTED VARIOUS SAINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE LETTER. 
          ULTIMATELY, THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING REASONABLE CRIMINAL PREVENTION MEASURES ON THEIR PROPERTY, NOT IN RESPONSE TO THE CITY, LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO DO SO. 
          BUT IN RESPONSE TO THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT'S OCCURRING ON THE PROPERTY, UM, THE INITIAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY DESIGNATION WAS NOTICED IN DECEMBER OF 2022. 
          AND, UH, I THINK THAT THEY WILL SHOW THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED VARIOUS MEASURES AFTER THAT. 
          BUT REALLY, YOUR DETERMINATION RELIES ON WHAT REASONABLE MEASURES THEY HAD BEFORE THE NOTIFICATION OF EVIDENTIAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          THE CITY'S PRESENTATION OF THE EVIDENCE WILL SHOW 
          [00:15:01]
THAT THE PROPERTY DID WAS THE SITE OF FIVE OF MORE AVAILABLE OFFENSES. 
          IN FACT, THERE WERE EVIDENCE WILL SHOW THAT THERE WERE DOUBLE THAT AMOUNT OF OFFENSES AND A 365 DAY PERIOD, AND THAT THE OWNER FAILED TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO DETER THE ACTIVITY DURING THAT RELEVANT TIME. 
          IN FACT, THERE WAS, THE SITE WAS, UM, THE LOCATION WAS THE SITE OF AN EVEN MORE VIOLENT CRIME IN THE BEGINNING PART OF 2023. 
          AND FURTHER ORDINANCE, AN OWNER OF HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY PURSUED TO HAVE NO KNOWINGLY TOLERATED THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT THE OWNER'S PROPERTY BY FAILING TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS, INCLUDING THOSE OUTLINED IN THE ORDINANCE. 
          AND THE ONES OUTLINED IN THE ORDINANCE ARE KIND OF JUST THE BARE MINIMUM, AND THE CITY WILL SHOW THAT NOT EVEN THOSE WERE IMPLEMENTED PRIOR TO THE NOTICE PROVIDED TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS. 
          AT THE TIME OF THE ACCORD MEETING, THE OWNER HAS A CHANCE TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION, AND THAT ACCORDED MEETING TOOK PLACE IN JANUARY, 2023, AND THOUGH SOME EVIDENCE WAS PRESENTED, IT WAS INSUFFICIENT TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION THAT THE PROPERTY MEETS THE DEFINITION OF HABITAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          IN CLOSING, THE CITY WILL SHOW THAT THE OWNER FAILED TO IMPLEMENT THE REASONABLE DURING THE, THE RELEVANT TIME, AND THEREFORE, THE HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY OR HCP DESIGNATION SHOULD REMAIN UNTIL IT'S ELIGIBLE FOR. 
          WE'RE NOW READY TO MOVE ON TO THE PRESENTATIONS. 
          AND JUST AS A, UH, POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR THOSE, UH, WHO HAVE NOT, UM, BEEN BEFORE US BEFORE, THE WAY WE'LL DO IT IS THE APPELLANT WILL MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION, UM, QUESTION YOUR WITNESSES, THEN THE CITY WILL QUESTION APPELLANT'S WITNESSES, AND THEN THE BOARD WILL QUESTION APPELLANT'S WITNESSES. 
          AND YOUR TIME WILL INCLUDE, UH, YOUR PRESENTATION AND YOUR QUESTIONING OF YOUR WITNESSES AND THE CITY'S WITNESSES, BUT NOT THE CITY'S QUESTIONING OR THE BOARD'S QUESTIONING OF YOUR WITNESSES. 
          I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR TIME. 
          UM, AND THEN, UH, WITH THAT, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED FOR UP TO 30 MINUTES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, OUR FIRST WITNESS WOULD CALL MICHAEL LEONARD. 
          I'M SURE YOUR BUTTON IS PUSHED. 
          MR. LEONARD, WOULD YOU STATE YOUR FULL NAME? MICHAEL LEONARD. 
          UH, HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? I'M EMPLOYED THROUGH SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT GROUP. 
          AND, UH, WHAT'S SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT GROUP AND YOUR, UH, INVOLVEMENT WITH SUNRIDGE, UH, RELATIONSHIP TO THE DEFENDANT HERE? UH, THE LANDMARK APARTMENTS WE'RE A THIRD PARTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY HIRED TO MANAGE THE PROPERTY FOR THE OWNER. 
          OKAY. 
          AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN MANAGING? I HAVE BEEN IN THIS INDUSTRY FOR 22 YEARS. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, UH, WHAT'S YOUR TITLE? I'M VICE PRESIDENT OF SUN RIDGE MANAGEMENT. 
          OKAY. 
          IS, UH, THE LANDMARK APARTMENTS YOUR PRIMARY, UH, ONE OF YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITIES? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          AND HOW LONG HAS THAT BEEN? UH, I'VE, UH, SINCE JULY OF 2021. 
          SO DURING THE RELEVANT PERIOD OF TIME THAT'S BEFORE THIS BOARD, YOU, YOU'VE BEEN, UH, BASICALLY IN CHARGE IN, AT, AT THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY LEVEL, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          AND THE INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, IS INFORMATION YOU'VE GLEANED BOTH FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND FROM WALKING THE PROPERTY AND FROM, AND TALKING TO THE APARTMENT, UH, MANAGER EDDIE DOGO TO YOUR RIGHT. 
          AND, AND OTHER RELEVANT PEOPLE. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, ARE YOU FAMILIAR THAT, UH, A LETTER WAS RECEIVED, A NOTICE WAS RECEIVED IN DECEMBER OF 2022 FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS, ADDRESS TO LAZY ACRES HOLDING, WHICH IS THE OWNER OF LANDMARK PROPERTIES OUTLINING A CLAIM OF NOTICE OF THE BISHOP WITH CRIMINAL PROPERTY? YES. 
          UH, CAN WE HAVE EXHIBIT ONE, UH, BROUGHT UP? OKAY. 
          I'M GONNA SHOW YOU, UH, WHAT WE'VE MARKED AS EXHIBIT ONE, WHICH IS ON THE SCREEN. 
          UH, IS THAT THE NOTICE LETTER THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT THE CITY GAVE NOTICE, UH, TO LANDMARK? I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA REFER TO, UH, THE PROPERTY JUST AS LANDMARK. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, CORRECT? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          IS THAT THE NOTICE OF HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY, UH, THAT WAS RECEIVED IN DECEMBER AFTER DECEMBER 27TH, 2022? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, DID YOU GET A COPY OF THAT LETTER AT SOME POINT IN TIME? YES, I DID. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, IF WE COULD TURN TO PAGE TWO OF EXHIBIT ONE, PLEASE. 
          NOW ON PAGE TWO OF EXHIBIT ONE, UH, IT, IT HAS A, UH, A TITLE SAYS AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. 
          SEE WHERE I'M 
          [00:20:01]
FOCUSING? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, IT IS THE CITY'S POSITION THAT THOSE 10 ITEMS WERE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT OCCURRED AT LANDMARK IN THE PRECEDING, UH, 365 DAYS? IS IT, I'M SORRY. 
          IS IT, IT'S YOUR, IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT WHAT THE, THIS NOTICE LETTER WAS DOING IS TELLING YOU THAT FROM THE CITY'S POSITION, THOSE WERE 10 AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES THAT OCCURRED? YES. 
          YES. 
          I UNDERSTAND. 
          OKAY. 
          NOW, FROM A STANDPOINT OF LOOKING AT THESE 10, WHEN WAS THE FIRST NOTICE THAT YOU MEAN YOU BEING SUNRIDGE, UH, THE OWNER LANDMARK, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR POSITION BEING IN CHARGE OF ALL OF THIS, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU WERE FAMILIAR OR EVEN AWARE THAT, UH, ANY OF THESE ACTIVITIES HAD OCCURRED? UH, THE ONE THAT OCCURRED ON DECEMBER THE EIGHTH, 2021, THE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGED. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE VERY FIRST ONE UP THERE. 
          AND SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE, UH, BOARD CAN SEE ON ONLINE. 
          SOMETIMES THIS STUFF'S A LITTLE FUZZY ONLINE, BUT IT STATES, UH, UH, ITEM 1 12 8 21 MANSLAUGHTER. 
          WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD WHAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT WAS? UH, THAT WAS A SITUATION IN WHICH A RESIDENT HAD A FIREARM IN THEIR UNIT. 
          THE RESIDENT WAS IN THEIR UNIT. 
          UM, IT'S, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE CLEANING THE UNIT OR WHATNOT, BUT THE, THEY DISCHARGED THE, THE, THE FIREARM INSIDE THEIR UNIT. 
          UH, THE BULLET WENT THROUGH THE WALL AND STRUCK THE RESIDENT THAT LIVED IN THE UNIT NEXT DOOR. 
          DID THEY KILL HIM? YES, CORRECT. 
          NOW, YOU WERE AWARE OF THAT AT OR ABOUT THE TIME IT OCCURRED, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          UH, CUZ YOU WERE INFORMED, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          NOW, UM, IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WAS A, UH, INTENTIONAL ACT OR, OR JUST A, A NEGLIGENT ACT. 
          A NEGLIGENT ACT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, OTHER THAN ITEM ONE, WHAT'S THE NEXT, UH, ITEM IN EXHIBIT ONE, PAGE TWO, THAT THE CITY SAYS YOU OCCURRED AND YOU KNEW ABOUT, UM, THAT YOU ACTUALLY KNEW HAD OCCURRED? I WAS NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THOSE OTHER INCIDENTS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THERE ARE 10 OTHER ITEMS THERE THAT YOU WERE NEVER NOTIFIED ABOUT, CORRECT. 
          YOU NEVER HEARD ABOUT, CORRECT. 
          YOU BEING NOT JUST YOU MICHAEL LEONARD, BUT YOU SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          YOU BEING ALSO THE OWNER AND, UH, DEPARTMENTS IN GENERAL, ANYBODY THAT'S WORKING THERE? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD THAT THE CITY NEVER NOTIFIED YOU OF THAT? CORRECT. 
          IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT NEVER NOTIFIED YOU ABOUT THAT? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          LET'S GO BACK TO ITEM NUMBER ONE. 
          AB DEBATABLE. 
          UH, IS THE ISSUE, UH, AT ONE OF THE ISSUES HERE THAT'S BEFORE THE COURT? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT AB DEBATABLE MEANS? YES. 
          WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MEANS? UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD HAVE PREVENTED FROM HAPPENING. 
          WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD IN YOUR, IN YOUR MOST SINCERE THOUGHT PROCESS, HOW YOU COULD HAVE AB EVADED, UH, THIS INDIVIDUAL TENANT IN A, AN APARTMENT IN THEIR APARTMENT CLEANING THEIR GUN FROM DISCHARGING THAT GUN AND HAVING THE MOST UNFORTUNATE OCCURRENCE OF KILLING THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR? WE HAVE NO WAY OF CONTROLLING THAT. 
          UH, TEXAS IS A OPEN CARRY STATE. 
          EVERYONE'S ALLOWED TO, UH, POSSESS A WEAPON INSIDE THEIR HOME. 
          UM, WE CANNOT MONITOR THE ACTIVITIES OF WHAT OCCURS INSIDE UNITS. 
          UM, THERE'S NO WAY OF, OF BEING PRESENT IN A UNIT AT 24 7 AND WATCHING WHAT TENANTS DO WE, WE, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED. 
          SO IN YOUR TESTIMONY, IN YOUR OPINION, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS 22 YEARS, RIGHT? CORRECT. 
          IN YOUR OPINION, AND BOTH FACTUAL AND JUST AS A IN, IN THE BUSINESS, CAN YOU THINK OF ANY WAY THAT LANDMARK COULD HAVE ABATED STOP THIS CRIME SOMEHOW PREVENTED THIS CRIME? NONE TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          NOW, UH, LET'S LOOK AT ITEM NUMBER TWO, POSSESSION CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE. 
          AND I'M NOT SURE IF WHAT PEN G R P MEANS, BUT LET'S JUST ASSUME IT'S SOME ILLEGAL DRUG, UH, THAT WAS ON THE SAME DATE, IS THAT CORRECT? 12 8 21? YES. 
          ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THAT IS? UH, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT WAS, UH, UH, AFTER THE FIREARM HAD DISCHARGED, THE POLICE WERE OUT AND INVOLVED INSIDE THE UNIT WITH OUR FIREARM WAS DISCHARGED IN, THEY FOUND A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE INSIDE THAT UNIT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO BASICALLY THE IT, FROM WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND, THAT WAS JUST A, A SIDE EVENT OF THE SHOOTING THAT OCCURRED IN THE APARTMENT WHEN THE GUN DISCHARGED, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          UH, WOULD YOU TELL THE, UH, THE BOARD FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, HOW YOU BELIEVE YOU COULD HAVE ABATED, LANDMARK COULD HAVE ABATED AND STOPPED SOMEBODY FROM HAVING DRUGS IN THEIR APARTMENT? I CAN'T. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY RIGHTS UNDER YOUR, YOUR LEASE TO GO IN AND, AND KIND OF DO A, UM, A SEARCH OF EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY TO SEE IF THEY'VE GOT ANY ILLEGAL DRUGS? NO, WE DO NOT. 
          WHEN YOU HIRE, WHEN YOU LET 
          [00:25:01]
TENANTS COME IN, DO, DO YOU, UH, ENTER INTO A PARTICULAR TYPE OF LEASE THAT UH, YES WE DO. 
          OKAY. 
          IS THAT THE TAA LEASE? YES, IT IS. 
          AND WE'VE ACTUALLY MARKED THAT WE WON'T BURDEN THE, UH, UH, BOARD WITH THE DETAILS OF IT, BUT WE'VE ACTUALLY MARKED THAT AS STARTING A, AN EXHIBIT 15 AND GOES THROUGH EXHIBIT, UH, 18. 
          UH, WHAT IS TAA? TEXAS APARTMENT ASSOCIATION? I, IS IT THE STANDARD, I I'M GONNA CALL IT THE GOLD STANDARD, BUT JUST A STANDARD, UH, UH, LEASE THAT MOST DEPART COMPLEXES OF ANY SIZE USE? YES, IT IS, AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A BIG DEAL. 
          IT'S NOT SOME, AND WE DIDN'T GO DOWN TO THE OFFICE DEPOT AND GET A FORM, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          DOES IT HAVE PROVISIONS IN THERE THAT BASICALLY, UH, WARRANTS THE TENANTS THAT IN FACT, UH, DRUGS AND OTHER CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES NOT ALLOWED ON PROPERTY? YES, IT DOES. 
          AND IF THEY WILL, CAN BE EVICTED FOR FROM IF THEY ARE FOUND OF YES, IT DOES. 
          OKAY. 
          AND DO, DOES, UH, LANDMARK ACTUALLY ACT ON THAT WHEN THEY ARE INFORMED THAT SOMEBODY'S GOT DRUGS OR DOING SOME CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? YES, WE DO. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT YOU HAVE TO BE INFORMED, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          AGAIN, YOU CAN'T GO INTO THE UNITS AND DO A, UM, A, A SWEEP TO SEE IF ANYBODY'S GOT SOMETHING ILLEGAL IN THERE, CAN YOU? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND LET'S GO DOWN TO NUMBER THREE THROUGH 10 ON EXHIBIT ONE. 
          UH, THE NEXT ONE SAYS 12 22 21, DISCHARGE OF A FIREARM IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES. 
          DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CITY'S TALKING ABOUT THERE? I DO NOT. 
          HAD YOU EVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE YOU GOT THIS LETTER? NO, I HAVE NOT. 
          AS WE SIT HERE TODAY, DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS? NO, I DO NOT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE'RE NEVER, NEVER GIVEN ANY KIND OF NOTICE, CORRECT? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THE, THE FOURTH ONE SAYS POSSESSION OF A SUBSTANCE, UH, A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE WE'RE THAT WAS ON 2 3 22. 
          AGAIN, ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT? NO. 
          AND AGAIN, WHEN YOU SAY YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE, YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR THE ENTIRE APARTMENT COMPLEX, YOU AND YOUR POSITION KNOWING EVERYTHING AT THAT YOU CAN KNOW IN YOUR POSITION? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THIS KIND OF INFORMATION WOULD COME TO YOU, IS THAT GENERALLY EXPECTED? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AS WE GO DOWN THE LIST, WE SEE A, AGAIN, WE HAD POSSESSION OF A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE, SO I, IF, IF WE ASSUME FOR A MOMENT THAT IS SOMEBODY IN THEIR UNIT, UM, HAVING A SMOKING A JOINT OR DOING COKE OR WHATEVER, WE DON'T KNOW. 
          THAT'S CORRECT. 
          BUT HOW WOULD YOU EVADE THAT? I CAN'T, I CAN'T, AGAIN, I CAN'T CONTROL WHAT OCCURS INSIDE A UNIT. 
          OKAY. 
          LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THE CITY WANTS TO DO HERE IS TO SLAP A BIG OLD PLACARD OUT ON YOUR PROPERTY THERE THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL, UH, PROPERTY. 
          HOW IS THAT GOING TO PREVENT SOMEBODY FROM BLOWING DOPE IN OR SHOOTING COKE IN THEIR, THEIR UNITS? FROM YOUR STANDPOINT, HOW WOULD THAT ABATE THAT? FROM MY STANDPOINT, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT WOULD ABATE ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. 
          OKAY. 
          AND AS FAR AS A, AS A, AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, HOW WOULD YOU POLICE THAT? I CAN'T POLICE THAT. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          IT'S THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S R JOB TO POLICE THAT, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          WHEN SOMEBODY, UH, TURNS SOME SOMEBODY IN OR COMPLAINS ABOUT IT, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          OR YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IF, UH, SOMEBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT IT, ANOTHER TENANT COMPLAINS ABOUT IT, SO YOU CAN START EVICTION PROCEEDINGS, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          AND YOU DID NOT RECEIVE ANY SUCH COMPLAINTS TO START A CONVICTION. 
          YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHICH UNIT THAT IS. 
          SO YOU CERTAINLY DIDN'T GET ANY COMPLAINTS, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          WE KEEP GOING DOWN THE LIST ON THIS LETTER THAT THE CITY SENT ASSAULT ON 2 8 22. 
          DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE ASSAULT WAS WITH A DEADLY WEAPON? NO, I DO NOT. 
          AGAIN, THAT'S NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER, EVEN IF WE SIT HERE TODAY? NO. 
          IT'S JUST SOMETHING THE CITY SAID HAPPENED. 
          CORRECT? THEY KNEW, BUT THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU, CORRECT. 
          YOU DIDN'T HEAR FROM ANYBODY ELSE? NO. 
          UH, 3 31 ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL, ANYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? NO. 
          7 25 CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. 
          DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS? NO. 
          NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE UNTIL THIS NOTICE LETTER, CORRECT. 
          AND STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS AS WE SIT HERE, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          11 7 22 ASSAULT DEADLY WEAPON, DON'T KNOW. 
          11 12 22 ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL? NO. 
          DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS. 
          12, 13, 22. 
          ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL. 
          DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. 
          SO AS YOU'RE BEFORE THIS BOARD AND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING THE BOARD TO CONSIDER WITH WHAT THE CITY IS SAYING IS THAT IT'S ONE THING FOR THE CITY TO SAY THESE THINGS HAPPEN. 
          LET'S JUST, I MEAN, I I DON'T THINK THE CITY'S GONNA MAKE STUFF UP. 
          I DON'T THINK THE POLICE DEPARTMENT COME BACK, STEP UP, DO YOU? NO. 
          SO WE CAN REASONABLY PRESUME FOR PURPOSES OF THIS HEARING THAT THESE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT WERE REPORTED TO THE POLICE, BUT NOBODY REPORTED THEM TO MANAGEMENT, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          OR TO LANDMARK, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          OR TO THE OWNER, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          AND THEREFORE, SINCE IT WASN'T REPORTED TO YOU, HOW COULD YOU ACT TO EV EVA IT BEFORE NOVEMBER 20? I MEAN DECEMBER 22ND, 2022. 
          WE CAN NOW, FOLLOWING THIS LETTER, WE WENT TO AN ACCORD HEARING, 
          [00:30:01]
IS THAT CORRECT? YES. 
          AND WE MET WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY ATTORNEY, AND THERE WAS A LIST OF THINGS THEY ASKED US TO DO. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD TODAY OF ALL THE ITEMS THAT THEY REQUESTED BE DONE, HOW MANY THINGS DID YOU DO? UH, PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING THEY REQUESTED US TO, TO DO HAS BEEN DONE. 
          THEY, UH, REQUESTED THAT LIGHTING BE REPAIRED, WHICH HAS BEEN DONE. 
          UH, THEY REQUESTED THAT HOLES IN THE FENCE HAS BEEN BE REPAIRED, WHICH WE HAVE DONE, AND WE CONTINUE TO DO ON A DAILY BASIS DUE TO THE HOMELESS ISSUE ALONG THE CREEK THAT HAS LOCATED BEHIND THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, THEY ASK US TO INSTALL BLOCK LICENSE PLATE READERS, WHICH WE HAVE DONE. 
          THEY HAVE ASKED US TO IMPLEMENT A COURTESY, COURTESY PATROL, WHICH WE DID ON JANUARY 27TH. 
          UH, THEY ASKED FOR US TO HAVE A PERMIT AND TOW, UH, TOW ENFORCEMENT POLICY, WHICH WE HAD ALREADY IN PLACE PRIOR TO THAT HEARING. 
          UH, THEY ALSO ASKED US TO INSTALL, UH, SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY, WHICH, UH, AS MR. BYRON SAID EARLIER, WE WERE IN THE, UH, FINAL STAGES OF, UH, FINALIZING THAT AGREEMENT TO OCCUR, AND THEY REQUESTED THAT WE INSTALL ENTRY RATES, WHICH IS, UH, THEN DEEMED IPO IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE ARCHITECTURE AND DESIGN OF THE PROPERTY ALONG SPRING VALLEY AVENUE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WHEN THE CITY GAVE LANDMARK NOTICE OF PROBLEMS, AND ONCE THE CITY SAID, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO IMPLEMENT THE FOLLOWING THINGS TO ABATE CRIME, IS YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU, THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY THE OWNER STARTED DOING IMMEDIATELY, ALL OF THOSE THINGS? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO IT AS WE SPEAK TODAY. 
          THE LAST THING REMAINING IS GETTING THE CAMERA. 
          WHAT, WHENEVER THE VENDOR'S LICENSING I IS RESOLVED TO GET THAT THAT INSTALLED? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          IS IT CORRECT THAT WOULD'VE ALREADY BEEN INSTALLED HAD IT NOT BEEN WITHOUT GLITCH WITH THE LICENSING BY THE VENDOR? CORRECT. 
          WHICH YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT UNTIL YOU GOT DOWN TO THE POINT OF ACTUALLY GET HAVING VETTED THEM IN, IN EVERY OTHER WAY. 
          CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          NOW, UH, MR. WILLIE, YOU'VE GOT 15 MINUTES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS, WHICH THE, WE WERE ASKING THE, THE BOARD TO FOCUS ON IS, IS THIS IS A TWO-STEP TANGO, IF YOU WILL. 
          UH, THE, IT'S A PRESUMPTION THAT ONCE WE PRESENT EVIDENCE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, GIVING TESTIMONY TO THE, UH, UH, THAT YOU KNEW ABOUT IT, HAD NOTICE ABOUT IT, UH, KNEW THAT THESE HA THINGS HAPPENED. 
          SO THE BOARD'S NOW HEARD THAT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, WE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE ACTUAL UN VERY UNFORTUNATE SITUATION WHERE A TENANT, UH, LOST A LIFE FROM A NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR CLEANING THEIR GUN. 
          UM, EACH OF THESE ITEMS THAT THE CITY HAS IDENTIFIED HERE, UH, IS SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT 'EM UNTIL THEY WERE TOLD ABOUT 'EM, CAN THEY, WHAT THEY, CAN THEY CAN YOU DO TO ABATE THEM? WHAT COULD YOU HAVE DONE TO ABATE THE DISCHARGE OF A FIREARM IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES, WHICH IS NUMBER THREE? I CAN'T. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THAT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN, CORRECT? THEY CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A GUN WALKING AROUND IN THE PARKING LOT WITH IT THESE DAYS, RIGHT? YES. 
          TEXAS LAW SAYS THAT, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          UH, YOU'D BE FOOLISH TO GO UP AND TELL 'EM TO GIVE YOU THE GUN, CORRECT? UM, YOU CAN'T ABATE THAT, CAN YOU? NO, I CANNOT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, HOW ABOUT ASSAULT AND ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED? IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THEIR UNITS, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          UM, A AGAIN, WE GO DOWN THE LIST HERE. 
          ONE OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS IS TO SHOW THAT YOU, THE PRESUMPTION CREATES THAT WE NEED TO TELL THE, THE BOARD INFORMATION OF THAT YOU KNOWINGLY BASICALLY IGNORED IT. 
          SINCE YOU ACTED UPON EVERYTHING THE CITY ASKED, ASKED YOU TO DO, IS THERE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWINGLY JUST IGNORED OR THE OWNER WOULD HAVE KNOWINGLY IGNORED, UH, TRYING TO ABATE ANY OF THESE KIND OF PROBLEMS IF THEY HAD KNOWN THAT THEY WERE THERE? NO. 
          HAD WE KNOWN THEY EXISTED, WE WOULD'VE PROCEEDED WITH FURTHER MEASURES YOUR TRACK RECORD AFTER THE FACT, WHICH THE CITY DOESN'T WANT US TO CONSIDER. 
          AND IT'S NOT THAT THE CITY'S A BAD ACTOR ON THAT, IT'S JUST THAT'S THE WAY THAT STATUTE'S DRAFTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          BUT YOU'RE AFTER THE FACT SPEAKS AS LOUDLY, IF NOT MORE LOUDLY THAN YOUR WORDS SPEAK, THAT YOU WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, YOU ACTUALLY ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. 
          CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT PLACARD, BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR THE BOARD TO KNOW. 
          UH, THEY WANT YOU TO PUT UP THIS UGLY SOUND. 
          I CALL IT THE SCARLET LETTER. 
          IT WAS A CLASSICAL BOOK THAT MY ENGLISH TEACHER IN HIGH SCHOOL MADE ME READ THAT, UM, WHAT COMES TO MIND. 
          BUT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN 22 YEARS IN THE BUSINESS, HAVE YOU, 
          [00:35:01]
HAVE YOU EVER, UH, SEEN A, A PLACARD UP THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY? NO, I HAVE NOT. 
          WHAT, IN YOUR OPINION WOULD IT DO TO THE, UH, THE TENANTS THERE? IF THEY WALKED EVERY DAY THEY DROVE IN THAT THEY SAW THAT SIGN? UH, OVERALL IT WOULD, UH, DE DETER THEM FROM LIVING THERE. 
          UH, IN ADDITION, IT WOULD DE DETER TEACHER APPLICANTS FROM COMING INTO THE PROPERTY AND, AND LIVING AT THE PROPERTY. 
          OKAY. 
          IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY HURT BUSINESS. 
          CAN YOU IMAGINE IN YOUR, YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE BUSINESS, ANY UTILITY THAT WOULD BE FUNCTIONALLY USEFUL OTHER THAN PUNISHMENT, UH, FOR HAVING SUCH A PLACARD PLASTERED ALL OVER YOUR PLA YOUR PREMISES? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          CAN WE, UH, REASONABLY ASSUME THAT WHOEVER DREAMED UP THAT RULE NEVER, UH, MANAGED OR OWNED APARTMENT COMPLEXES WERE, UH, THE TENANTS AND THAT LIVED THEIRS, UM, LIVES AND, AND EXPERIENCES AND EXPECTATIONS WEREN'T EVEN CONSIDERED? YES, I WOULD MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION. 
          AND CERTAINLY NOT THE LANDLORD, THE OWNER'S, UH, BUSINESS BASED UPON HAVING TENANTS TO, UM, COME THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, THIS IS NOT JUST A PROBLEM WITH YOUR, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX. 
          IS THAT THE, THE CRIME IN THAT AREA, THAT'S, IS IT CORRECT THAT THERE'S, IN THAT GENERAL AREA, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S LIKE A LOT OF DALLAS'S THERE, IT'S CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M GONNA JUST, UH, GO THROUGH VERY QUICKLY THE EXHIBITS SO THAT THE BOARD KNOWS, UH, WE'RE NOT JUST MAKING STATEMENTS ARE EXHIBIT FIVE. 
          AND YOU DON'T NEED TO PARTICULARLY BRING IT UP, BUT I WANNA ASK, SINCE IT'S IN EVIDENCE, EXHIBIT FIVE IS THE SERVICE AGREEMENT WITH WHOM? UH, THE COURT COURTESY PATROL. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THE COURTESY PATROL HAS BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE JANUARY 27TH OF THIS YEAR? CORRECT. 
          AND THEY MAKE, UH, MAKE, MAKE PATROLS ALL DURING THE DAY, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          THEY MAKE 16 PATROLS PER DAY. 
          AND OUR EXHIBIT SIX IS OVER 200 PAGES OF REPORTS THAT THEY HAVE DONE SHOWING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ON THE SCENE, DAVID, CORRECT? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          AND YOU IMPLEMENTED THAT CUZ THE CITY ASKED YOU TO DO IT? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, WHAT ABOUT EXHIBIT SEVEN? WHAT'S EXHIBIT SEVEN? THAT IS THE FLOCK AGREEMENT, UH, TO GREEN TO INSTALL THE DRIVER'S LICENSE. 
          PLATE READERS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO YOU'VE ENTERED INTO THAT AND THAT'S DONE CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN EXHIBIT EIGHT AND NINE WERE JUST, UH, LETTERS FROM FLOCK SAND THAT WE'VE IMPLEMENTED THAT AND GOT IT DONE, CORRECT? YES. 
          THAT'S CONFIRMATION THAT THE CAMERAS WERE INSTALLED. 
          OKAY. 
          WHAT ABOUT EXHIBIT 10? THAT'S A CONTRACT AGREEMENT WITH WHOM? BETWEEN SUNRIDGE AND WHO, UH, THE, UH, VENDOR TO INSTALL THE CAMERAS. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE STILL WORKING ON? CORRECT. 
          BUT YOU STARTED DOING THIS SOME TIME AGO, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THERE IS AN EXHIBIT 11 THAT SAYS IT'S A FULL TOW LIST. 
          WHAT, WHAT'S THAT? THAT'S A TOW LIST THAT SHOWS, UH, ALL TOW ACTIVITY FROM JANUARY OF 2022 THROUGH DECEMBER OF 2022, SHOWN THAT WE HAVE IN FACT HAD A TOW, UH, AND PERMANENT POLICY AND, AND, AND CONTRACTING IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE NOTICE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, UH, NUMBER EXHIBIT 12 ARE INVOICES SHOWING THAT YOU DID LIGHTING, UH, IN-HOUSE, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          THAT WAS, YOU HAD TO INCUR EXPENSES FOR THAT, CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT WE SPENT ON, UH, CORRECTING, UH, FIXING THE LIGHTING ISSUES. 
          AND EXHIBIT 13 IS A CRIME WATCH CERTIFICATE. 
          IS THAT, TELL THEM THEM BRIEFLY WHAT THAT IS. 
          UM, OH, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I FORGOT. 
          THEY, THE CITY REQUESTED THAT WE DO HAVE TO DO IS ATTEND CRIME WATCH MEETINGS MONTHLY, AND THAT'S THE CERTIFICATE OF SHOWING THAT WE HAVE HOSTED THOSE MONTHLY ON THE SITE WITH THE OFFICER SIGNING OFF THAT, UM, HE HOSTED THOSE MEETINGS MONTHLY SINCE JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. 
          OKAY. 
          WE'LL PASS THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR. 
          BOARD CHAIRMAN. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          UH, DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE WITNESS? JUST A COUPLE. 
          UM, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, UM, CHECK MANAGEMENT PUT IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON DEPARTMENT PROPERTY? YES. 
          DID YOU OR ANY OF YOUR EMPLOYEES REGULARLY CHECKED ABOUT POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT RIGHT. 
          HAVE ANY TIME? NO. 
          UM, AND BELIEVE YOU DEFINED AN AB DEBATABLE CRIMINAL OFFENSE? I, I, SORRY TO INTERRUPT, MS. RILEY, COULD YOU MOVE THE MICROPHONE CLOSER TO YOUR MOUTH PLEASE? THANK YOU. 
          I BELIEVE YOU STATED THAT YOU THOUGHT A ANAB DEBATABLE CRIMINAL OFFENSE WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD PREVENT. 
          ARE YOU AWARE THAT IT'S A DEFINED TERM LEGALLY THAT IT RELATE TO OFFENSE AT ALL TIME? UH, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. 
          UH, YOUR DEFINITION OF AN AVAILABLE 
          [00:40:01]
CRIMINAL OFFENSE, YOU SAID IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN POSSESS? CORRECT. 
          ARE YOU AWARE THAT IT'S A LEGALLY DEFINED TERM AND THERE'S ACTUALLY A LIST OF OFFENSES THAT QUALIFIED? I'M NOT AWARE OF THE FULL LEGAL DEFINITION OF IT, NO. 
          AND YOU STATED THAT, UM, YOU FIXED THE LIGHTING AND HOLES IN THE FENCE AFTER YOU WERE NOTIFIED. 
          DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S REASONABLE THAT YOU HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED TO HOLES FROM SOMEBODY THAT'S AN ONGOING ISSUE AND THAT THAT EXISTED? EVERY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE, BIKES GO OUT, WE REPLACE THEM. 
          THE FENCING, AGAIN, THAT'S, LIKE I SAID, WE FIXED THAT NUMEROUS TIMES. 
          EVEN SINCE THE MEETING IN JANUARY, WE HAVE FIXED THAT SOMETIMES ON A DAILY BASIS. 
          AND THE, THE VA, THE, THE HOMELESS THAT LIVE IN ALONG THE CREEKSIDE BEHIND THE PROPERTY, CONTINUALLY CUT THROUGH THAT FENCE AND TO GAIN ACCESS THROUGH THE PROPERTY. 
          AND WE CONTINUE TO FIX THOSE ISSUES AS WE FIND THEM. 
          AND DID YOU HAVE ANY CAMERAS ON YOUR PROPERTY BEFORE DECEMBER, 2022? NO. 
          DID YOU HAVE ANY FAIR TO PATROL ON THE PROPERTY? NO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, THANK YOU MR. RILEY. 
          UH, IS THAT YOUR PRESENTATION, MR. WOOEY OR DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? UM, I HAVE MR. EDDIE, UH, WAS THE APARTMENT, UH, MANAGER, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT, I'M JUST GONNA ASK HIM ONE QUICK QUESTION JUST TO CONFIRM. 
          I'M, I DON'T THINK HE'S GOT ANYTHING ADD, ADD TO MR. LEONARDS, BUT OTHER THAN THAT WE'LL BE DONE. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          CALL. 
          AND, AND EDDIE, HOW ? EDDIE GALLOS. 
          GALLOS? YES. 
          CALL EDDIE GALLOS. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          YOU'VE GOT, UH, EIGHT MINUTES REMAINING. 
          UH, MR. GALLOS, UH, WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD WHAT YOUR POSITION IS AT LANDMARK? I'M THE PROPERTY MANAGER. 
          OKAY. 
          AND YOU HEARD MR. LEONARD'S TESTIMONY, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          AND IF, DO YOU CON CONCUR WITH HIM THAT, UH, FROM THIS NOTICE THAT WAS SENT TO THE, UH, OWNER AND TO MANAGEMENT EXHIBIT ONE, UH, DECEMBER 22, I'M SORRY, DECEMBER 27TH, 22, UH, THAT THAT'S THE FIRST TIME, UH, YOU AS APARTMENT MANAGER KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THESE, UH, ALLEGED, UH, AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ON PAGE TWO OTHER THAN ITEM ONE AND ITEM TWO? CORRECT. 
          AND AGAIN, ITEM ONE WAS THE UNFORTUNATE, UH, DISCHARGE OF A RIFLE IN, UH, UH, AN AJ AND ONE OF THE TIM'S DEPARTMENTS HAD KILLED AN ADJACENT TENANT, CORRECT? YES. 
          ANY WAY YOU COULD HAVE EV EVADED THAT, HOWEVER, THE DEFINITION IS, WHETHER IT'S THE COMMON DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF MINIMIZED, PREVENT OR HARM OR SOME LEGAL DEFINITION, YOU KNOW, OF ANY WAY YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED THAT. 
          MM-HMM. 
          OKAY. 
          HOW ABOUT THE POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES? IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WAS JUST FOUND AS A SIDE, UH, PART OF THE INVESTIGATION OF THE RIFLE SHOP, CORRECT. 
          IN THAT TENANT DEPARTMENT? YES. 
          ALL THESE OTHER ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED THERE, YOU'RE THE APARTMENT MANAGER, THEY'RE THERE DAILY, CORRECT? YES. 
          OR MOST DAILYS EXCEPT ON YOUR DAY OFF. 
          AND UNLESS SOMEBODY REPORTS IT TO YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. 
          WERE ANY OF THESE REPORTED TO YOU? NO. 
          DID THE CITY OF DALLAS REPORT IT TO YOU? NO. 
          NOW THERE'S SOME SUGGESTION THAT MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE JUMPED ON THE WEBSITE AND GONE TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND DONE A DEEP DIVE ON DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAD ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. 
          WE, THAT WAS KIND OF THE SUGGESTION I GATHERED FROM ONE OF THE CROSS QUESTIONS FOR MS. RILEY. 
          UH, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE EVER TOLD TO DO? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE CITY OF DALLAS DIDN'T SAY, HEY, WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME, BUT MA'AM, WE, IF YOU GO ONLINE, YOU CAN DO THAT. 
          NO THANKS WITNESS. 
          THANK YOU MS. RILEY. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS? NO QUESTIONS. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          WE'LL NOW PROCEED WITH, UH, BOARD QUESTIONING, UM, OF, UH, MR. LEONARD AND MR. GALLEGOS. 
          UM, AND, UH, JUST FOR THE RECORD, MS. AYALA DID JOIN THE MEETING, UH, DID JOIN THE HEARING. 
          SO, UH, ALL MEMBERS OF THE BOARD ARE PRESENT. 
          WE WILL BEGIN, UH, WE'LL GO IN DISTRICT ORDER, AND WE WILL START WITH THREE MINUTES OF QUESTIONINGS, BEGINNING WITH MS. ARIANO. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANTS WITNESSES? I HAVE A QUESTION HERE. 
          UM, HOW LONG HAS THE PROPERTY MANAGER, UM, BEEN MANAGING THE PROPERTY? TWO AND A HALF YEARS. 
          TWO AND A HALF YEARS. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I THINK THAT SOMEONE 
          [00:45:01]
STATED THAT THEY ARE, WERE JUST MADE AWARE OF ONE INSTANCE, WHICH WAS THE LAUGHTER, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          UH, I WAS REVIEWING THE INCIDENT REPORTS AND AN INCIDENT TOOK PLACE. 
          UM, I THINK IT WAS THE BURGLARY OF THE BUSINESS. 
          IT WAS, AND THE ONE THAT CALLED IT IN WAS THE ASSISTANT MANAGER NA RAMOS, WHICH WAS ON FEBRUARY 1ST, 2022. 
          WAS THAT INCIDENT MADE AWARE TO THE MANAGER THERE? NO. 
          AND JUST TO CONFIRM, PRIOR TO THERE IS NO CAMERAS ON THE PROPERTY, CORRECT? THERE IS NO WHAT? CAMERAS NOT AT THE MOMENT. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          I'LL YIELD MY TIME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, MS. AALA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT'S WITNESSES? NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THE MOMENT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MS. WILLIS? YES. 
          WE JUST DISAPPEARED. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          YES, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. 
          OKAY. 
          PROCEED. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THE PROPERTY CONSISTS OF MOSTLY LOW TO MODERATE INCOME RESIDENTS. 
          SO IS THIS A LOW INCOME TAX CREDIT PROPERTY? NO, IT IS NOT. 
          IT'S NOT A TAX CREDIT. 
          THE, THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE PROPERTY IS LOWER INCOME, MAINLY HISPANIC. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I HEARD YOU MENTION THAT YOU GUYS DO HAVE SOME SAFETY MEASURES IN PLACE, LIKE LIGHTING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, CRIME WATCH. 
          UM, THERE'S NO CAMERAS, BUT DO YOU ALSO HAVE SECURITY, UH, OFFICERS? YES, WE HAVE A COURTESY PATROL AND WE'VE ALSO INSTALLED LICENSE PLATE READERS AT THE ENTRIES OF THE PROPERTY AS, AS REQUESTED BY THE CITY OF DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THO, THO THOSE ARE CAMERAS WE HAVEN'T INSTALLED. 
          WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS INSTALLED THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE PROPERTY YET DUE TO A LICENSING ISSUE WITH THE VENDOR THAT WAS SELECTED, WHICH WE'RE WORKING OUT. 
          HOW OFTEN DOES YOUR SECURITY, WELL, I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS. 
          SO DOES YOUR TENANTS HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR, UM, SECURITY OFFICERS? YES, THEY CAN CALL, UH, THE, THEY CAN CALL THE OFFICE NUMBER, UH, IF IT'S AFTER HOURS, THEY'RE DIRECTED TO THE COURTESY PATROL'S PHONE NUMBER TO CONTACT THEM. 
          AND HOW OFTEN DOES YOUR PROPERTY MANAGER MEETS WITH YOUR SECURITY OFFICERS TO DISCUSS ANY CONCERNS THE TENANTS MIGHT HAVE? DO THEY EVER WE'RE UPDATED? WE'RE UPDATED DAILY, UH, WITH REPORTS. 
          UH, THE COURTESY PATROL IS ON SITE AT RANDOM 16 TIMES PER DAY THROUGHOUT THE DAY, 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. 
          UM, AND THEN EACH DAY THE PROPERTY MANAGER HAS EMAILED A REPORT FROM THE PREVIOUS DAY. 
          WE REVIEW THAT AND IF THERE'S ANY INCIDENTS THAT WE NEED TO DISCU THAT OCCURRED, THEN WE DISCUSS THOSE WITH THE COURTESY PATROL. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MS. WALLACE. 
          UH, MS. TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR WITNESSES? NO QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MR. CILLA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR, UH, IT'S WITNESSES? DO. 
          THANK YOU, MR. LEONARD. 
          I WANTED TO ASK QUESTIONS IN REGARD TO JULY, 2021, WHEN YOU BECAME EMPLOYED. 
          UM, OR I GUESS NOT EMPLOYED, BUT MAYBE THAT'S WHEN YOU HAD THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY UNDER YOUR MANAGEMENT. 
          DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE AN OFFICE ON THE PREMISES? NO, I DO NOT. 
          OFFICE OUT OF THE CORPORATE OFFICE, HOW OFTEN DO YOU WALK THE PROPERTY FROM TWO JUNE TWO, JULY, 2021 ON AVERAGE, I VISIT THE PROPERTY AT LEAST ONCE EVERY OTHER WEEK, SOMETIMES WEEKLY. 
          WHEN YOU TOOK OVER THE PROPERTY OR THIS BECAME UNDER YOUR MANAGEMENT IN JULY, 2021, DID YOU WALK IT IMMEDIATELY WHEN YOU BECAME EMPLOYED IN JULY, 2021? YES, I DID. 
          AND WHAT DID YOU NOTICE ABOUT THAT PROPERTY OF WHAT YOU CAN REMEMBER? UH, JUST OBSERVED NATURAL THINGS OF THAT, UM, PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND POINTED THOSE OUT TO THE MANAGER WHAT NEEDED TO BE, IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT NEEDED. 
          CORRECT. 
          BE CORRECTED. 
          I CAN'T EXACTLY RECALL WHAT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN TWO YEARS AGO, BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT STICKS OUT THROUGH MY NOTICES, UH, I MEAN THROUGH MY WALK THAT I NOTICE, YOU KNOW, I ADDRESS IT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE PROPERTY MANAGER. 
          CAUSE SOMETIMES THEY DON'T ALWAYS SEE EVERYTHING AND 
          [00:50:01]
THEY'RE NO ONE, AND SOMEONE COULD COME BACK BEHIND ME AND SEE SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T NOTICE. 
          UH, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT THE PROPERTY HAD A CREEK RUNNING BEHIND IT AT TIME? UH, YES, I WAS. 
          AT THAT TIME. 
          DID YOU NOTICE THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF ANY, AT THAT POINT, WAS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF HUMANS OR HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS THAT MIGHT BE LIVING NEAR THE CREEK? I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN ANYONE LIVING BACK THERE, BUT I KNOW THEY EXIST BECAUSE OF THE CLOTHING AND THE TRASH AND DEBRIS THAT THEY LEAVE BEHIND. 
          THEY LIVE IN IT. 
          THEY ACTUALLY LIVE DOWN BELOW VISIBILITY. 
          UM, BUT THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S SIGNS THAT PEOPLE ARE LIVING BACK THERE. 
          YES. 
          SO PRIOR, SO JULY, 2021, OR WITHIN EVERY TWO WEEKS THAT YOU WERE WALKING THIS PROPERTY FROM JULY, 2021, DID YOU NOTICE THAT TYPE OF EVIDENCE OF POTENTIAL HUMAN BEINGS THAT WERE LIVING NEAR OR AROUND YES. 
          THE CREEK, YES. 
          IT'S, IT'S AN ONGOING PROBLEM THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF DALLAS. 
          I'M ASKING ABOUT YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU WERE MANAGING, NOT THE CITY OF DALLAS. 
          WELL, YES, THAT PROPERTY, AND IT IS IN ALSO SEVERAL OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I HAVE IN THE CITY OF DALLAS. 
          THE SAME THING OCCURS AT THOSE PROPERTIES AS WELL. 
          APPRECIATE THAT. 
          I'M JUST ASKING ABOUT THIS PROPERTY AND YES, I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. 
          YES. 
          UM, YOU NOTICE ANY TRASH NEAR THE PROPERTY OR ON THE PROPERTY AT THAT TIME IN 2021? ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE, UH, THAT'S NOT PART OF OUR PROPERTY, BUT WE HAVE MAINTAINED THAT WITHIN THE SIX FEET PERIMETER, WHICH WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO BY CITY ORDINANCE. 
          AT POINT, AT POINT. 
          AT THAT POINT, DID YOU NOTICE ANY, UH, BROKEN FENCES OR CUT FENCES AT THAT TIME, OR DELA? I DON'T RECALL AT THAT TIME. 
          I DON'T RECALL AT THAT TIME. 
          NOTICE ANY GRAFFITI ON THE BUILDING AT THAT TIME OR WITHIN THE, THE TIMES THAT YOU WALKED IN 2021, THE PROPERTY? I HAVE NOT NOTICED ANY GRAFFITI ON THE BUILDINGS. 
          YOU NOTICED ANY GRAFFITI IN 2022 ON THE BUILDING? I, I'VE NEVER NOTICED OBSERVED ANY GRAFFITI. 
          YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PHOTOS THAT WERE PRESENTED BY, I BELIEVE THE CITY OF DALLAS. 
          IT SHOWS GRAFFITI ON THE BUILDING. 
          I'M SORRY, WAS THAT A QUESTION? IT IS A QUESTION. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          WHAT WA WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? I, I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND. 
          ARE YOU TO HEAR ME? OKAY. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          I'M SPEAKING FROM A COMPUTER. 
          I CAN HEAR YOU NOW. 
          YES. 
          OKAY, PERFECT. 
          SORRY. 
          UM, DID YOU NOTICE THE GRAFFITI THAT WAS IN THE PHOTOS PROVIDED? MR. MR. CASTILLO? THAT'S GONNA BE YOUR, YOUR TIME FOR THIS ROUND. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. JEFFS, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT? I DO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. LEONARD, YOU SAID THAT THE, UM, REPAIRS TO THE FENCING WERE ONGOING AND, UH, WERE COMMONPLACE BECAUSE OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION ON THE CREEK, ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE DEPARTMENT. 
          CORRECT. 
          HAVE YOU MADE COMPLAINTS TO THE CITY OF DALLAS OR TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE HOMELESS POPULATION BACK THERE AND YES, WE HAVE. 
          HAS THERE BEEN ANY DIALOGUE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND YOU REGARDING, UH, THE NATURE OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, WRITTEN DIALOGUE? I WOULD SAY NO, BUT IT, UH, THE CITY HAS BEEN OUT THERE SEVERAL TIMES ALONG WITH PEACE OFFICERS AND INSPECTING UNITS, AND WE'VE BROUGHT IT UP TO THEM NUMEROUS TIMES REGARDING THE HOMELESS, AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, THERE'S NOT ANYTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. 
          BASICALLY IS, IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MR. JEFF. 
          MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR WITNESSES? YES, I DO. 
          UM, PROCEEDING, I'M, I, I'M AWARE OF THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF AB DEBATABLE, WHICH IS DEFINED BY CODE AND THE COMMON USAGE OF THE TERM AB DEBATABLE. 
          HOWEVER, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TWO THINGS IN PARTICULAR, SECURITY SERVICE AND LIGHTING ARE THE KINDS OF STEPS THAT ANY RESPONSIBLE APARTMENT OWNER, PARTICULARLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THIS, UH, COMPLEX EXISTS, WOULD WANT TO TAKE WITHOUT EVEN BEING BROUGHT TO THIS ISSUE OF BEING A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          SO MY QUESTION IS FOR MR. GUY GALLEGOS. 
          UH, TWO QUESTIONS. 
          ONE, DO YOU LIVE ON THE PROPERTY ITSELF, MR. GALLEGOS? I DO, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE, DO I LIVE ON PROPERTY? YES. 
          NO, I DON'T. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SECOND QUESTION THEN. 
          GIVEN MY PERSONAL BELIEFS THAT SECURITY SERVICE AND LIGHTING ARE VERY REASONABLE 
          [00:55:01]
THINGS THAT SHOULD BE IN EXISTENCE AT ANY APARTMENT COMPLEX LIKE THIS ARE SIMILAR TO IT, DID YOU EVER SUGGEST OR REQUEST A LANDMARK THAT THEY IMPROVE THE LIGHTING AND HIGHER SECURITY SERVICE ANY TIME, UH, DURING YOUR TENURE AS MANAGER? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. QUINN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT? YES, SIR, I DO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO PLEASE PROCEED. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          MR. LEONARD, I, I FIND IT TRULY HARD TO BELIEVE THAT MANAGEMENT DID NOT KNOW THAT THERE WAS ISSUES AT THIS COMPLEX. 
          DO EITHER YOU, MR. LEONARD OR MR. GALLEGOS KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THE POLICE WERE CALLED? NO, I DO NOT. 
          WOULD 218 SURPRISE YOU? YES, IT WOULD. 
          DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE URGENT? NO, I DO NOT. 
          111. 
          THAT TO ME, SORT OF SPELLS THAT THIS IS TRULY A HABITUAL CRIME AREA. 
          DID YOU EVER HEAR MR. LEONARD OR MR. GALLEGOS, ESPECIALLY TENANTS COMING TO YOU SAYING THERE'S AN ISSUE, THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THIS PROPERTY, LI TENANTS HAVE RESPONDED, AND IF WE'RE NOTIFIED OF, OF THE ISSUE WITH TENANTS, WE DO REACT TO IT AT THAT TIME. 
          NO. 
          NO, SIR. 
          MY QUESTION TO YOU WAS, DO TENANTS EVER COME TO YOU SAYING THERE'S ISSUES WITH THIS PROPERTY, THE CRIME OR WHAT HAVE YOU? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. 
          SO AGAIN, I FIND THAT TRULY HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT 218 CALLS OF THE POLICE, YOU'VE NEVER HEARD ONE TENANT SAY TO YOU, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG. 
          I'M NOT ON SITE. 
          SO, BUT IN TERMS OF CALLING THE CORPORATE OFFICE, NO, NO ONE HAS CONTACTED THE CORPORATE OFFICE. 
          SO MR. GALLEGOS, YOU, YOU OFFICE AT THAT PROPERTY OR YOU DON'T WHAT? I'M SORRY, MR. GALLEGOS, DO YOU OFFICE AT THAT PROPERTY? YES. 
          SO YOU'VE NEVER HAD TENANTS COME TO YOU SAYING THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH SAFETY ON THIS PROPERTY? NO. 
          I FIND THAT INCREDIBLY HARD TO BELIEVE WITH THAT MANY CAUSE TO THE POLICE. 
          UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH FENCING AND LIGHTING AT EVERY PROPERTY, CORRECT? MR. RECO, ARE YOU ASKING ME OR OR MR. LEONARD, YOU OR MR. GE? MR. LEONARDS, YOU MENTIONED THAT AT EVERY PROPERTY Y'ALL HAVE, YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH FENCING AND LIGHTING? NO, I DID NOT SAY THAT. 
          I SAID WE HAVE ISSUES WITH THE HOMELESS. 
          NO, SIR. 
          BEF, I, I WROTE DOWN YOUR WORDS EXACTLY AS YOU SAID THEM. 
          WE HAVE AN ISSUE AT EVERY PROPERTY WE OWN WITH LIGHTING AND FENCING. 
          THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS. 
          NO, NO, THAT'S TAKEN OUTTA CONTEXT. 
          WHAT I MEANT TO SAY IS WE HAVE ISSUES ONGOING. 
          THE CRIMINAL ISSUES OCCUR AT EVERY PROPERTY THAT WE OWN, NO MATTER WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD WE'RE IN, WE HAVE HOMELESS, UH, UH, OCCURS AT ALL OUR PROPERTIES NO MATTER WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD WE'RE IN. 
          THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY THAT. 
          I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE HAVE LIGHTING ISSUES OR FENCING ISSUES AT EVERY PROPERTY THAT WE MANAGE. 
          MR. LEONARD, I CAN APPRECIATE YOUR WORDS, BUT THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS AND YOU DID NOT ELABORATE WITH ANY OF THAT, SIR. 
          UM, WELL, I'M EXPLAINING MYSELF NOW. 
          I I DID NOT REALIZE THAT'S WHAT I HAD SAID PRIOR, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY. 
          WELL, I'M JUST GOING BY YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR, AND I APPRECIATE IT. 
          SO YOU SAID YOU HAVE SECURITY, UM, 24 HOURS A DAY, AND IS THERE SOMEONE ON THE PROPERTY ALL DAY, EVERY DAY? UH, DURING OFFICE HOURS, THERE'S, UM, MANAGEMENT'S ON SITE. 
          YES. 
          NO, SIR. 
          I SAID SECURITY. 
          SECURITY, YES. 
          THEY'RE THERE NOT, THEY'RE NOT THERE 24 7, BUT THE, THEIR COURTESY PATROL PATROL IS SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, 16 TIMES A DAY AT RANDOM TIMES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THE PROPERTY IS EXPOSED, SO TO SPEAK. 
          UH, MR. QUINN, THAT'S YOUR TIME FOR THIS ROUND. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR, UH, THESE WITNESSES? I HAVE NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. 
          LEMME MAKE SURE I GOT THEM. 
          UH, MR. LEONARD, HOW MANY PROPERTIES DID YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR? CURRENTLY, I'M OVERSEE 28 PROPERTIES. 
          ARE THEY ALL THIS LARGE? THEY VARY IN SIZE FROM 24 UNITS, UPWARDS OF 300 AND, UM, EIGHT UNITS. 
          AND HOW MANY UNITS DOES THIS ONE HAVE? 243. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IT'S ON THE LARGE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY MANAGE? CORRECT. 
          DO ANY OF THOSE 
          [01:00:01]
OTHER PROPERTIES HAVE SECURITY PATROLS? WE HAVE, UH, ONE OTHER PROPERTY THAT HAS A COURTESY PATROL. 
          OKAY. 
          AND WHY DOES, WHY DID THIS PROPERTY NOT HAVE A SECURITY PATROL BEFORE? UH, IN ALL HONESTY, I DIDN'T SEE THE NEED FOR IT AND UNAWARE OF THESE ACTIVITIES OCCURRING. 
          OKAY. 
          DO YOU SEE THE NEED FOR IT NOW? I DO NOW, YES. 
          AND WE'VE IMPLEMENT, THAT'S WHAT WE IMPLEMENTED ONCE WE WERE AWARE OF, OF WHAT WAS GOING ON. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO THE, THE CRIMES ON THE LIST AND THE LETTER FROM THE CITY, UH, YOU SAID OTHER THAN THE MANSLAUGHTER, UM, YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THESE NO. 
          CRIMES PRIOR TO GETTING THE LETTER? NO. 
          UM, SO E EXCLUDING THE POSSESSION OF THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE, WHICH WE'RE GONNA ASSUME ALL OF THOSE HAPPENED, UH, IN, IN PEOPLE'S APARTMENTS, UM, THERE'S, I I COUNT FIVE OR SIX, UH, VIOLENT CRIMES, ROBBERIES AND AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS THAT HAPPENED ON THE PROPERTY IN THE YEAR PRIOR TO YOU GETTING THESE LETTERS, YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THOSE? NO. 
          AND PRESUMABLY THE POLICE VISITED THE PROPERTY TO INVESTIGATE THOSE. 
          HOW IS IT THAT YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THE POLICE VISITING THE PROPERTY? WELL, THAT'S OUR QUESTION AS WELL. 
          UH, UH, UH, WOULD LIKE TO SAY, IN ALL FAIRNESS, THAT OTHER PROPERTIES, WHEN THIS HAS OCCURRED, WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS USUALLY OCCURS, THE POLICE USUALLY DO STOP BY THE OFFICE AND INFORM MANAGEMENT OF WHAT'S IN OCCURRED. 
          THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED AT THIS PROPERTY. 
          SO, UH, WHY? I DON'T KNOW. 
          I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. 
          UM, BUT YOU, YOU KNOW, IN THE 22 YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, WE'VE NEVER LOGGED INTO A POLICE WEBSITE TO CHECK THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ANY PROPERTY THAT WE MANAGE. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW. 
          AND I'VE WORKED FOR FIVE DIFFERENT MANAGEMENT COMPANIES AND THAT'S NEVER BEEN SOMETHING THAT ANY MANAGEMENT COMPANY HAS EVER DONE THAT I'VE WORKED FOR. 
          UM, SO I FIND THAT HIGHLY UNUSUAL. 
          THE, THE, THE, THE BURDEN IS ON US TO DISCOVER, TO LOG IN AND DISCOVER IF THE POLICE HAVE BEEN CALLED TO OUR PROPERTY. 
          I, I WOULD THINK THAT IF THE POLICE WERE OUT THERE, THAT THEY WOULD STOP BY THE OFFICE AND NOTIFY US THAT THEY WERE ON THE SITE AND THAT OF SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BEING THAT THEY WERE AT THE PROPERTY, UM, WHICH IS, LIKE I SAID, HAS OCCURRED AT OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I'VE ALWAYS MANAGED. 
          THEY'VE ALWAYS STOPPED BY THE OFFICE AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON. 
          THIS IS WHY WE'RE HERE. 
          SO YOU HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THESE VIOLENT CRIMES THAT OCCURRED ON YOUR PROPERTY SINCE LAST DECEMBER? UM, CORRECT. 
          TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE WAS TWO, THE ONE THAT HAPPENED IN DECEMBER AND THEN THE, THE UNFORTUNATE TRIPLE MURDER THAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR THAT STARTED ON THE STREET AND ENDED UP IN OUR PARKING LOT. 
          THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT AN INCIDENT THAT STARTED ON OUR, IN OUR PROPERTY. 
          O OKAY. 
          AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS LETTER, IT, IT EXPLAINS HOW TO OBTAIN COPIES OF THE POLICE REPORTS, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT YOU HAVEN'T DONE, CUZ YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MORE DETAILS ABOUT THESE. 
          UM, HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY STEPS TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT WAS YOUR TENANTS WHO COMMITTED ANY OF THESE CRIMES AND A VICTIM NOW THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM? IF WE KNOW ABOUT 'EM? YES, WE'VE, WE'VE HAVE ACTUALLY. 
          BUT YOU'VE KNOWN ABOUT 'EM SINCE DECEMBER? CORRECT. 
          AND THE ONES THAT WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT THAT WE, WE HAVE PRO PROVIDED, PROCEEDED WITH THE EVICT THEN. 
          SO HAVE YOU, SO WHO COMMITTED THE, UH, AGGRAVATED ROBBERY ON NOVEMBER 12TH, 2022? I DON'T HAVE THE NAME OFF CORRECT. 
          WAS IT A TENANT? WAS THE TENANT THE VICTIM OR THE PERPETRATOR? THAT I DON'T KNOW. 
          I, I, I, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION IN FRONT OF ME. 
          I DON'T KNOW. 
          I COULDN'T TELL YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, SORRY THAT'S MY TIME FOR THIS ROUND. 
          UM, WE'LL GO BACK THROUGH AND, AND THIS TIME EVERYBODY WILL HAVE, UH, TWO MINUTES. 
          UH, MS. RIANO, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MS. AYALA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS MS. WILLIS? YES. 
          I JUST HAD ONE TO GET CLARITY ABOUT THE SECURITY. 
          SO YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE SECURITY OFFICERS, BUT YOU HAVE A COURTESY PATROL 16 TIMES, I THINK YOU SAID A DAY. 
          SO WHAT IS THAT? LIKE A SWEEP THROUGH AND THEN THEY'RE LIKE ON THE PROPERTY OF PREMISES FOR ABOUT A COUPLE MINUTES. 
          IT'S AN ARM, IT'S AN ARMED COURTESY OFFICER, AND I'M SORRY, IT, YOU CAN CALL IT SECURITY. 
          IN OUR, IN OUR INDUSTRY, WE CALL IT A COURTESY PATROL, UH, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT, AS THE LEASE TAA LEASE STATES, WE'RE NOT LIABLE FOR THE SAFETY OF OTHER RESIDENTS. 
          SO IT'S A COURTESY PATROL TO PROTECT THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS OUTLINED IN THE TAA LEASE. 
          UM, SO WE, WE CALL IT A COURTESY PATROL. 
          IT'S AN ARMED COURTESY OFFICER. 
          THEY RANDOMLY STOP BY THE PROPERTY. 
          UH, THEY DO GET OUT OF THEIR VEHICLE AND THEY WALK THE ENTIRE PROPERTY 
          [01:05:01]
AND, UH, MAKE A REPORT OR, UH, ADDRESS ANY INCIDENTS THAT THEY SEE GOING ON AT THE TIME THAT THEY'RE WALKING THROUGH THE PROPERTY. 
          SO THEY, ON THE PROPERTY, HOW LONG ARE THEY ON THE PROPERTY? ARE THEY THERE FROM BETWEEN CERTAIN HOURS OR TIME, OR ARE THEY JUST DOING LIKE A, A, YOU KNOW, A WALKTHROUGH AND THEN THEY'RE ONTO WHATEVER THE NEXT COMPLEX OR TO WALK THAT? THAT IT'S A VERY LARGE PROPERTY THAT'S VERY SPREAD OUT. 
          AND JUST FROM EXPERIENCE TO WALK THROUGH THAT ENTIRE PROPERTY AND CHECK ALL AREAS, I WOULD SAY THEY WOULD BE THERE APPROXIMATELY 30 TO 30 TO 60 MINUTES PER VISIT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THEY'RE NOT THERE FOR A SHIFT. 
          THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY, NO. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT THERE 24 7? NO. 
          AND IT'S NOT A SET TIME THAT THEY COME, IT IT'S RANDOM. 
          IT'S, IT'S RANDOM. 
          THEY RANDOMLY PICK TIMES, UH, 16 TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MS. TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, MS. ROUND? I JUST HAD A QUESTION REGARDING, UM, COMMON PRACTICE. 
          YOU MENTIONED, UM, THAT YOU, UH, YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE AS FAR AS LIKE MULTIPLE, UM, LOCATIONS AND VARIOUS AGENCIES. 
          SO THERE'S A CLEAR DISCONNECT, RIGHT? BE BETWEEN THE POLICE ACTIVITY AND THIS PART, THIS COMPLEX. 
          SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE TALKS BETWEEN THE LEADERSHIP? IS THERE TALKS AMONG THE LEADERSHIP REGARDING HOW TO BRIDGE THIS GAP? UH, BECAUSE YEAH. 
          DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR YOU TO HAVE TO LOG IN, DO YOUR OWN SEARCH? UM, BUT IS THERE, DO YOU HAVE A, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. 
          UH, YEAH, GO AHEAD. 
          WE HAVE DISCUSSED THAT WITH THE POLICE OFFICERS AND, UH, THE, THE, OUR, OUR, THE OFFICER THAT COMES OUT AND CONDUCTS THE, THE MONTHLY CRIME WATCH MEETINGS. 
          UH, EDDIE, WHEN HE COMES OUT, EDDIE DOES DISCUSS ANYTHING, ANY ACTIVITIES, UH, AT THAT TIME, YOU KNOW, THAT MIGHT HAVE OCCURRED THAT, THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THIS IS ONE OPPORTUNITY, RIGHT? TO, UH, GET A PULSE ON, ON, UM, AND, AND DURING NONE OF THESE MEETINGS, IT BECAME KIND OF EVIDENT THAT IT WAS KIND OF AN ISSUE. 
          LIKE THERE'S JUST A LOT OF CRIME. 
          DO YOU ATTEND AND THE CURRENT MEETINGS? UH, I HAVE NOT ATTENDED ONE OF THE MEETINGS EITHER WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT, UM, EDDIE WOULD NEED TO ANSWER FOR YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT YOU DO NOT ATTEND, YOU STARTED HOSTING? WE JUST STARTED HOSTING THE MEETINGS THIS YEAR. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, UH, AT WHAT POINT THIS YEAR? UH, JANUARY. 
          JANUARY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, IS THERE, UM, OKAY. 
          AND SO YOU DON'T ATTEND THESE MEETINGS, BUT YOU, DO YOU GET A REPORT FROM THESE MEETINGS? NO, THEY'RE, I DON'T HAVE A REPORT FROM THEM, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          THAT'S IT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S ALL I HAVE. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          UH, MR. CILLA, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, MORE QUESTIONS? MR. MR. ALL? DO YOU HEAR ME NOW? YEP. 
          MR. GALLEGOS, UM, MY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE CRIME WATCH MEETINGS, I NOTICED IN A, THAT THEY WERE SIGNED FOR EACH MONTH, OR HAD, THERE WAS ONE SKIPPED IN MARCH. 
          DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT WAS SKIPPED IN MARCH? YEAH, THEY WERE NOT AVAILABLE TO COME IN, WHO WASN'T AVAILABLE, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          CAUSE THEY HAVE TO GET A TRANSLATOR. 
          SO I GUESS THEY WERE NOT AVAILABLE TO TRANSLATE. 
          DO YOU KNOW IF THERE WAS A MEETING THAT WAS, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. 
          THERE WAS NOT A SPANISH SPEAKER. 
          SO WAS THERE, WAS THERE A CRIME WATCH MEETING LAST MONTH IN MAY? NO. 
          AND WHY DID THAT NOT HAPPEN? SAME. 
          SO TWO OUTTA THE FIVE I REACH OUT. 
          SORRY. 
          YEAH, I REACHED OUT TO THEM, BUT THEY WERE NOT AVAILABLE. 
          SO I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A DATE FOR, FOR JUNE, IS IT REQUIRED TO HAVE A TRANSLATOR THAT'S FROM SAY, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR COULD YOU ACTUALLY SEEK AND HIRE YOUR OWN TRANSLATOR? I'VE NEVER ASKED THAT QUESTION TO THEM. 
          THERE WAS BEEN ONE, GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING IN, IN, UH, UH, SOME TYPE OF 
          [01:10:01]
INPUT AND CONVERSATION WITH YOUR TENANTS, DO YOU FIND THAT THAT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT FOR THE FUTURE TO, TO, TO, UM, PLAN AHEAD AND FIND A TRANSLATOR KNOWING THAT YOU'VE HAD TWO OUT OF THE FIVE MEETINGS CANCELED OR NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE 'EM BECAUSE OF TRANSLATORS? YES, DEFINITELY. 
          IN REGARD TO, UM, THE MEETINGS, ARE THEY, HOW MANY ATTEND THESE MEETINGS IN REGARD TO TENANTS? THE ARRANGEMENTS? I MEAN, EVERY MONTH WE GET FROM FIVE TO 20 RESIDENTS. 
          HOW ARE THOSE RESIDENTS INFORMED OF THE MEETING? WE SEND OUT NOTICES, UH, ON PAPER, EMAIL, TEXTS ON PAPER, NO ON PAPER. 
          IN REGARD TO THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED OF MR. LEONARD, I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU A FEW OF THOSE QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE CRIMES THAT HAD OCCURRED ON THE PROPERTY. 
          DID YOU DO ANY TYPE OF RESEARCH IN REGARD TO WHETHER FINDING OUT WHETHER THEY WERE TENANTS OR APPROVED INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE EITHER THE, UH, SUSPECT'S, PERPETRATORS, OR THE VICTIMS OF THOSE PARTICULAR CRIMES? UH, OKAY. 
          CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? CAUSE I SURE. 
          DID YOU DO ANY RESEARCH IN REGARD TO THE PRIOR CRIMES, THE AVAILABLE HABITAL CRIMES THAT OCCURRED ON THE PROPERTY? DID YOU DO ANY RESEARCH OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE INVOLVED EITHER THE PERPETRATOR OR THE, UM, VICTIMS IN REGARD TO FINDING OUT WHETHER THEY WERE ACTUAL TENANTS OR APPROVED INDIVIDUALS TO BE ON THE PROPERTY FROM THE LIST? UM, THAT WAS GIVEN JUST THE FIRST ONE, UM, ON THE, IT WAS . 
          I I'M SAYING ANY CRIMES IN DETERMINING, IN DETERMINING WHETHER THEY WERE TENANTS THAT WERE ACTUALLY SIGNED THE LEASE OR THEY WERE LISTED ON THE LEASE SAYING, YES, THIS PERSON LIVES HERE. 
          DID YOU DO ANY RESEARCH ON THAT? NO. 
          NO. 
          JUST THE FIRST ONE THAT, UM, I WAS AWARE OF. 
          UH, THAT'S YOUR TIME, MR. GUTTIER. 
          UH, MR. JEFF, DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? I DO. 
          MR. LEONARD, DID YOUR COMPANY PERFORM DUE DILIGENCE, UH, WITH THE OWNER AND THE PROPERTY BEFORE YOU ENTERED INTO CONTRACT TO MANAGE THE PROPERTY? UH, I'M NOT ABLE TO ANSWER THAT. 
          WE'VE BEEN MANAGING THE PROPERTY SINCE 2008. 
          UH, THAT WAS PRIOR TO ME WORKING, COMING TO WORK FOR THE COMPANY IN 2012. 
          SO I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF, OF WHAT WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU'VE MANAGED THAT PROPERTY THE LAST TWO YEARS. 
          CORRECT. 
          AND THE CONTRACTOR WAS ALREADY IN PLACE WITH YOUR COMPANY TO MANAGE THAT PROPERTY BEFORE YOU CORRECT. 
          IT WAS MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT THAT WAS BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE 2008. 
          ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. 
          UH, SECOND QUESTION FOR MR. WOOLEY. 
          UH, I UNDERSTOOD YOU MENTIONED AN APARTMENT STANDARD, A TEXAS APARTMENT ASSOCIATION, I BELIEVE. 
          DOES THAT STANDARD, UH, HAVE ANY KIND OF GUIDANCE FOR, UH, CRIMINAL ABATEMENT, MINIMUM STANDARDS OR, OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE? NO, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. 
          AND OVER PROBABLY 20 YEARS, I'VE PROBABLY READ JUST ABOUT EVERY PARAGRAPH AND THAT THING. 
          I THINK AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER, I DON'T RECALL ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. 
          WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT TENANTS WHO COMMIT CRIMES, UM, CAN BE EVICTED. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WARNING THEM, YOU DON'T DO DRUGS, YOU DON'T DO THIS, YOU DON'T HARASS PEOPLE. 
          AND THAT'S A, THAT'S A BREACH OF POLICE AND YOU CAN BE EVICTED FOR THAT. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE TAA LEASE ADDRESSES TO MY RECOLLECTION. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MR. JEFF. 
          UH, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? YES, FOR MR. LEONARD, UM, IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY, YOU STILL HAVE NOT LET THE CONTRACT FOR THE INSTALLATION OF CAMERAS, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. 
          WE'RE WORKING OUT THE FINAL DETAILS ON THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          WHEN YOU DO ISSUE THAT CONTRACT, HOW ARE THE CAMERAS GOING TO BE MONITORED? IS IT GONNA BE AN OUTSIDE SERVICE DOING THAT, OR ARE THEY FED INTO YOUR OFFICE? NO, NO. 
          THERE'LL BE A, A DVR PLACED IN THE OFFICE AND A MONITOR IN THE OFFICE. 
          SO THEY'RE, SOUNDS TO ME LIKE IT'S MORE OF AN AFTER THE FACT THING TO HELP ARREST WHOEVER DID SOMETHING THAN AS A PERHAPS INTO THE MERE PRESENCE. 
          THERE IS A DETERRENT, BUT THEY'RE NOT BEING MONITORED. 
          IT'S NOT A REALTIME DETERRENT THEN, I GUESS THAT'S, NO, WE'VE NEVER, NO, WE'VE NEVER HAD ANY CAMERA SYSTEM MONITOR 24 7. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          [01:15:02]
THANK YOU, MR. HAYES. 
          UH, MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? YES, SIR, I DO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, AHEAD, MR. LEONARD, YOU SAID POLICE USUALLY INFORM MANAGEMENT WHEN THEY COME OUT TO THE PROPERTY, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          YET WITH, AND YOU SAID YOU HAD NOT HEARD, OR MR. GES HAD NOT BEEN INFORMED 218 TIMES? NO, SIR. 
          I HAVE NOT BEEN INFORMED OF THAT. 
          SO I CAN UNDERSTAND IF THE POLICE FORGOT ONE OR TWO TIMES TO INFORM, BUT 218 TIMES THEY DID NOT INFORM. 
          THAT MAKES NO SENSE, SIR, TO YOUR TESTIMONY. 
          UM, NO, SIR. 
          I, I, I CAN ONLY TELL YOU WHAT I KNOW. 
          I UNDERSTAND THAT. 
          BUT WITH 218 TIMES NEVER BEING INFORMED, SOMETHING'S MISSING IN THIS EQUATION. 
          UM, YOU FOCUSED ON THE, THE, THE 17 EVENTS THAT YOU SAID WERE AVAILABLE, BUT YET THERE'S 201 OTHER EVENTS THAT WERE IGNORED. 
          SO WAS THAT MISDIRECTION AGAIN, I, I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHAT I DON'T KNOW. 
          WELL, NO, SIR. 
          YOU, YOU FOCUSED ON THE LETTER FROM THE CITY, BUT YET THERE'S 201 OTHER EVENTS THAT HAPPENED. 
          SO THERE'S A BIG GAP THERE IN THOSE NUMBERS. 
          UH, MOVING ON. 
          MOST OF THE URGENT OFFENSES OCCURRED WHEN BETWEEN DARK AND DO DUSK AND DAWN. 
          SO INSTEAD OF HAVING SOMEONE SWEEP THE PROPERTY FOR FIVE MINUTES, WHY NOT HAVE OFF-DUTY POLICE OFFICERS SITTING IN A CRUISER FROM DUST TO DAWN? WELL, SIR IS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED. 
          WE WERE NOT AWARE THAT THESE SITUATIONS WERE HAPPENING FOR ONE. 
          AND I MEAN, IT  NOW, HONESTY, THE, THE, THE, THE FEASIBILITY OF THIS AND PROPERTY MANAGEMENT. 
          MR. MR. LEONARD, I'M GONNA STOP YOU REAL QUICK SO I DON'T LOSE MY TIME. 
          YOU JUST SAID YOU'RE NOT AWARE, BUT YET YOU STATED THE POLICE ALWAYS TE LET Y'ALL KNOW WHEN THEY'RE COMING. 
          218 TIMES YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT. 
          I SAID IT OTHER, IN MY HISTORY OF DOING THIS, WHEN OCCURRENCES HAVE HAPPENED AT OTHER PROPERTIES, THEY HAVE USUALLY STOPPED BY THE MANAGEMENT OFFICE TO NOTIFY US THAT AN INCIDENT HAD OCCURRED ON THE PROPERTY. 
          YOU WHY THAT DID NOT HAPPEN HERE? I CANNOT ANSWER. 
          YOU SAID STANDARD PRACTICE. 
          UH, THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR TIME, MR. NO, I DID NOT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SAY STANDARD. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          UH, MS. SCH, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          UM, I JUST HAVE A, A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS. 
          UM, AND, UM, SO, UH, MR. WOOEY HAD SAID ON, ON THE POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, MR. WOOEY HAD SAID THESE ARE SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE ABATED, UH, BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY HAPPEN INSIDE THE, THE RESIDENCE APARTMENT. 
          UM, WE'VE GOT A LIST HERE. 
          ASSUMING THAT ALL OF THESE HAPPENED WITHIN THE RESIDENCE APARTMENT, WE'VE GOT A LIST HERE NOW OF I GUESS FOUR OR FIVE, MAYBE SIX, UH, OF YOUR TENANTS THAT WERE AT LEAST AT ONE TIME POSSESSING CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES IN THEIR APARTMENTS. 
          HAVE YOU EVICTED THOSE TENANTS? I DON'T KNOW. 
          WE'VE EVICTED TENANTS YES, FOR THINGS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHICH RESIDENCE YOU WOULD BE REFERRING TO. 
          I WOULD'VE TO KNOW WHAT NAMES THEY ARE AND, UH, AND RESEARCH IT. 
          OKAY. 
          DID YOU ASK THE, UH, CITY FOR THE NAMES OF THESE TENANTS SO THAT YOU COULD EVICT THEM? I DID NOT, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          SO PROBABLY YOU HAVEN'T, IF YOU'VE EVICTED THEM, YOU EVICTED THEM FOR SOME OTHER REASON. 
          WE'VE EVICTED FOR, FOR ACTIVITIES, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES? YES. 
          IS IS THERE, IS THIS, YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME. 
          IS THIS LIST, AND I, AND I I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE 200, JUST TALKING ABOUT THE LIST OF 17 THAT ARE, UH, IN THE LETTER, IS THIS A FAIRLY TYPICAL LIST OF CRIMES AND VIOLENT CRIMES FOR PROPERTY THAT YOU MANAGE? IT VARIES FROM PROPERTY TO PROPERTY. 
          I CAN'T SAY THAT IT ANYTHING'S TYPICAL FOR ANY PROPERTY. 
          EVERY PROPERTY DIFFERENT COMPARED TO THE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT YOU MANAGE. 
          IS THIS HIGH OR LOW? I WOULD SAY IT WAS HIGH. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THAT'S MY TIME. 
          WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO THE CITY'S PRESENTATION. 
          UH, LET'S SEE. 
          HOLD, 
          [01:20:01]
UH, MS. RILEY, YOU'LL HAVE 30 MINUTES IN MR. WOOLEY BY MY CALCULATION. 
          UM, YOU'VE GOT SEVEN MINUTES REMAINING FOR ANY QUESTIONING THAT YOU'LL WANT TO DO OF THE CITY WITNESSES. 
          UH, MS. RILEY, YOU MAY PROCEED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WILL YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE BOARD? COPY. 
          AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A POLICE OFFICER WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT? 19. 
          AND ARE ONE OF THE, THE DIVISIONS YOU'RE ASSIGNED TO THE NORTH CENTRAL DIVISION? YES. 
          AND ARE YOU ASSIGNED TO A SPECIALIZED DIVISION? I'M DETECTIVE. 
          AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR ROLE ON WILMINGTON BAKING TEAM? SO THIS STATE, WHAT WE DO IS INVESTIGATE THE PROPERTY. 
          AND WHAT TYPES OF PROPERTIES DO WE LOOK AT? WE LOOK AT OTHER PROPERTIES. 
          SO RENT FROM MAIN SHOPPING CENTER, TALKING. 
          AND WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THE GOAL OF THE PROGRAM IS? THE GOAL OF OUR PROGRAM IS TO RENEW, UM, FOR PREVENTION TIME, UM, PROPERTY SERVICES THAT PROVIDE, YEAH. 
          AND LET'S, UM, DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY. 
          ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY THAT WE'VE BEEN REFERRING TO THE, UM, LANDMARK ON THE VALLEY APARTMENTS? YES. 
          AND HOW HAVE YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THAT PROPERTY? UH, WHEN I MEANT THAT HIS PROPERTY WILL RUN HIS EVALUATION FROM THE CO DEPARTMENT FIRE INSPECTOR. 
          UM, AND THEN THEY, AND WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THE REPUTATION OF THIS DEPARTMENT CONFERENCE IS? UH, SO SPEAKING WITH OFFICERS, ACTING THE PATIENT, SO THE, THE GENERAL OF HIS PROPERTY, HIGH PRIMARY AREA, BUT IT IS, HAS RUN DOWN PROPERTY. 
          THEY'RE MANAGED, OBVIOUSLY ASSOCIATED WITH. 
          WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK JUST TO, UH, AT THE CITY'S EXHIBIT ONE, TAB EIGHT, WHICH WOULD BE THE PHOTOGRAPHS. 
          DID YOU TAKE THESE PHOTOS? I DID, YES. 
          UM, CAN YOU KIND OF WALK THROUGH THEM AND, UH, JUST KIND OF TELL US WHAT YOU WERE TAKING A PICTURE OF? IT'S TOWARDS THE END. 
          IT'S HOW PAGE 2 69. 
          MINE'S NOT DOWN. 
          CAN YOU CAN JUST KIND OF TELL US WHY YOU TOOK THE PICTURE OF WHAT THAT URBAN MEANT TO YOU? SURE. 
          SO THIS IS, UH, ALONG THE CREEK LINE THERE ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE PARCEL. 
          SO THE SOUTHEAST SIDE OF THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, SO THIS PICTURE HERE IS THE  THAT HAVE, UH, LACK OF MAINTENANCE, UH, LACK OF POLO STUDIES, UM, UH, AND IT KIND OF SHOWS THAT, THAT NOBODY FROM MANAGEMENT SUPPORT THEIR MEASURES THAT THEY HAD IN PLACE AT THE TIME ARE, UH, COMPARATIVE FENCE. 
          AND DID YOU VISIT THE PROPERTY ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS? AND IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU NOTICED ON MORE THAN ONE? OCCASIONALLY, YES. 
          UH, NOT TO THIS EXTENT. 
          SO THEY HAVE REPAIRED SOME OF IT, BUT EVERY TIME I'VE DONE THAT, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN 
          [01:25:01]
SOME SORT OF WHOLE CUT, UH, STICK SPECIFICALLY AT IT. 
          UH, AND WOULD YOU SAY THAT MAYBE IT WOULD BE REASONABLE TO FALL ON? SURE. 
          SO I WOULD, IN MY MIND, IF I HAD THIS REASSURING PROBLEM ON THIS PROPERTY, I WOULD'VE EVALUATED OR LOOKED AT AND KIND OF ELIMINATE THIS. 
          SO WE'VE WORKED OTHER PROPERTIES THAT HAVE HAD THE SAME, SAME ISSUE, UM, CHAINING FENCE, WOODEN FENCES BEING KICKED OUT, SO OUT, UM, AND THEY HAVE UPGRADED TO SIMILAR FENCES LIKE ROD IRON OR, UH, OTHER SAFETY MEASURES THAT FENCING COMPANIES CAN PUT IN THERE TO PREVENT OR, OR EXTREMELY MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO, UH, YOU CAN JUST KIND OF SCROLL DOWN. 
          AND WHY DID YOU TAKE THIS PHOTO? SO IN THIS PHOTO, OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN SEE THOSE ARE ALL EMPTY, UH, CORONA BOTTLES, UM, AND . 
          SO THIS IS FROM THE POLICE PERSPECTIVE, IT'S KIND OF INDICATIVE OF, UH, TAILGATING PARTIES AND PARTIES HAVING PARKING LOT CLEAN OUT OUTSIDE OF THEIR RESIDENCES, HAVING PARTIES DRINKING, GETTING INTOXICATED, UM, WHICH IS KIND OF RELATES TO HOW MUCH CONTROLS ON THE PROPERTY. 
          SO MOST OF THE TIME THESE PARKING LOT PARTIES AND TAILGATE PARTIES ARE NOT SANCTIONED BY AT MANAGEMENT OR OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY. 
          IT'S NOT A SPONSORED EVENT. 
          SO THIS IS JUST TENANTS RESIDENCE, THEIR FRIENDS OR WHOEVER THEY INVITE COMING OUT, HANGING OUT IN THE PARKING LOT. 
          UM, SWIMMING, RIGHT, SAME PARKING LOT. 
          AND FROM THE, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THIS IS INDICATED OF COMING DOWN THE PARKING LOT UP OR SHOOTING INTO THE, WOULD BE ALSO FIREARM OFFENSIVE SOMETIMES. 
          UM, WELL BEING ON THE PROPERTY, WE NUMEROUS COMPLAIN FROM THE RESIDENT FOR CALLED BY RANDOM EMPIRE. 
          UM, RANDOM. 
          UM, I CAN SEE, UM, RECALL RELATED TO THAT. 
          THESE ARE PHOTOS ON, UH, THERE, PHOTOS HERE NAMED CAPTURING THE LIGHTING THAT IS ON THE PROPERTY. 
          SO SPECIFICALLY IN THIS PHOTO, IF WE LOOK AT THE BUILDING, UM, THERE ARE NO EXTERIOR BUILDING. 
          AND IN YOUR TRAINING EXPERIENCE, WOULD YOU SAY THAT THIS IS A SUFFICIENT LIGHTING FOR EQUIPMENT? NO, THEY HAVE A WOULDN'T MINIMAL NOT A LIGHTING ON PROPERTY. 
          UH, MOST OF THEIR LIGHTING IS COMING FROM S UM, AND TELEPHONE POLE TRAFFIC PROPERTY AND THE NEXT FEW PICTURES. 
          SURE. 
          SO THE NEXT THREE PICTURES SHOULD BE THE, THE PROPERTY EITHER BEING TAKEN TO STEVE. 
          SO THEY HAVE ON THE FRONT HERE ON THE LEFT, THEY HAVE ROD IRON PRINTING, UM, AND THEN ON THE RIGHT, THE MIDDLE, SO THEY HAVE RIGHT ON SOMETHING ON THE FRONT PART OF THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, AND THEN THE MAIN PHONE PASS HERE THAT THERE ARE, THERE'S NO CONTROL, SO NO CONTROL VEHICLES ACCESS. 
          THAT WOULD BE THE THIRD ENTRANCE, UH, FOR THE PROBLEM. 
          UH, SO THIS PICTURE IS ANOTHER PORTION 
          [01:30:01]
OF THE FENCE, UH, ON, AND THEN ANOTHER, OBVIOUSLY ANOTHER HOLE CUT INTO THE FENCE AT A DIFFERENT PORTION. 
          UM, AND THEN JUST CAPTURING THE, THE FENCE IS NOT BEING MAINTAINED. 
          SO EVEN THE BAR ON TOP HOLD ALL THE CHAIN UP, THEY CALM DOWN NOT BEING MAINTAINED, AND ANOTHER PORTION OF THE FENCE. 
          AND THEN IN THE MIDDLE, DIFFERENT HOLE, DIFFERENT PORTION OF THE FENCE. 
          SO IF WE LOOK AT THIS PHOTO IN THE MIDDLE WHERE THE BUILDINGS TOGETHER, COLUMN LEFT THERE, THERE'S A BLACK OBJECT CAME DOWN, THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A LIGHT. 
          THE ONE EXTERIOR LIGHT ON THE, ON THE BUILDING IS RIGHT THERE. 
          UM, AND THIS INDICATES NOT BEING MAINTAINED, NOT BEING REPLACED, JUST HANGING DOWN THAT HOLE ON THE THERE IS IN THE THEN GONNA GO WHERE EXTERIOR LIGHT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. 
          UM, AND INDICATING LIGHT MAINTENANCE WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH OUTSIDE FROM THE PROPERTY. 
          UH, HERE'S ANOTHER PORTION OF FENCE, DIFFERENT HALL TOWEL, A RESIDENT THAT LIVES RIGHT NEXT TO THAT HOLE ATTEMPTED FENCE. 
          SO THIS IS ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE FEW EXTERIOR LIGHTS THAT THEY HAVE POSTED ABOUT THE PROPERTY. 
          IF WE LOOK UP ALL THOSE ENGINE INSIDE THE LIGHT THERE, UH, THOSE ARE INDICATIVE OF PEOPLE SHOOTING THE LIGHTS OUT WITH PALLETS OR BABIES, THE LIGHT OPEN THERE, THESE NEXT FEW PHOTOS ARE OF THEIR SIGN. 
          SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE GENERAL TAKE, UH, TAKE HIDES WITH KEYS PROPERTY IN THE VEHICLE. 
          UM, AND THEN THIS PICTURE FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE IS CAPTURING THE LACK OF MAINTENANCE GENERALLY ABOUT THE BUILD, UH, THE PROPERTY. 
          SO THEY DON'T EVEN, UH, MAINTAIN THEIR, THEIR GENERAL SIGNS THAT THEY CAN GO BY. 
          AS YOU KNOW, GENERAL FIRE, WALMART. 
          SO THEY, THE SIGNS HAVE BEEN UP SO, SO LONG THEY'VE MADE IT IN THE, IN THE SIGN A COUPLE MORE SIGNS. 
          SO THE ONE ON THE, THE, THE ONE ON THE THEY, UH, TOWING, TOWING SIGN SAYING, YOU KNOW, PARKING IN TELLING, ENFORCE ABOUT THE PROPERTY. 
          THERE'S A DIFFERENT LIGHT, DIFFERENT PART OF THE PROPERTY THAT HAS BEEN SHOT OUT. 
          AND , THIS PICTURE A C UH, PD THAT'S ON ONE OF THE BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY, THERE'S A DIFFERENT SIGN LOCK TAKE, HIDE SIGN, UH, ON PORTION OF THE PROPERTY. 
           SIGN FOR THIS SIGN HERE, WE CAN'T EVEN READ IT. 
          THE, THAT'S STANDING FROM THE PARKING. 
          UH, THIS IS CAPTURING WHAT WAS A, UH, LOCK TAKE, HIDE SIGN AT ONE POINT IN TIME. 
          SO KIND OF SUMMARIZING, LOOKING AT THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, UM, DOES THIS MAKE YOU THINK OF A PROPERTY WHERE REASONABLE CRIME PREVENTION? YEAH, SO THE GENERAL OF THE PROPERTY, UM, ON THE PICTURES, HAVING PROPERTY, INSPECTING THE PROPERTY AND THEN SPEAKING WITH THE OFFICER WHO PATROL THAT AIR AREA, IS THAT THE GENERAL PERCEPTION IS THE PROPERTY'S, UH, FAILED MAINTENANCE RUNDOWN  AND IF LIT ABOVE THE PROPERTY, WHICH ALL GIVES PERCEPTION THAT OWNERSHIP MANAGEMENT IS NOT INVESTED IN THE PROPERTY, DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE PROPERTY, UM, WHICH TRANSLATES INTO CRIME. 
          SO IF THE, IF WE'RE, IF POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY IS SEEING IT, THE RESIDENTS OBVIOUSLY ARE GONNA KNOW MORE THAN THEY LIVE THERE 24 7. 
          SO IF THEY ARE SEEING FAILED MAINTENANCE, UNHEARD COMPLAINTS, LITTER KNOW NOTHING BEING INVESTED IN THE PROPERTY, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY 
          [01:35:01]
GONNA DO ALL THEIR, THEIR LEGAL, UH, WHERE THE DRUGS IS DONE, UM, COME INTO PLAY. 
          THEY DON'T BELIEVE, OR THE PERCEPTION IS, IS MANAGEMENT OWNERSHIP NOT GONNA EVICT, NOT GONNA ENFORCE THE LEASE. 
          SCREW NOT IN PUBLIC CAR, NOT GONNA DO, UM, EVERYTHING A REASONABLE, LET'S SAY APARTMENT COMPLEX WOULDN'T CARRY OUT. 
          UM, AND THEN THAT TRANSLATES INTO ONCE THAT IS KNOWN TO THE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD CRIMINALS, THEY'RE GONNA GO THERE BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF CHICKEN FISH BUREAU BECAUSE THERE'S NO ENFORCEMENT IN BULLS, DON'T PULL BACK TO MANAGEMENT. 
          OWNERSHIP DOESN'T INVEST IN ANY, ANY MEASURES. 
          THEY'RE NOT CHALLENGED JUST AND YOU'RE AWARE THAT A FINAL DETERMINATION HAS BEEN MADE, IT DOESN'T MAKE THE PROPERTY, CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          YES. 
          AND, UM, AS INVESTED ASSIGNED TO THE NORTH CENTRAL VACANCY, YOU CONDUCTED THE INVESTIGATION NECESSARY TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION. 
          I DO. 
          AND IN ORDER TO COME UP WITH THE OFFENSIVE, UH, OR LISTED IN THE LETTER, DID YOU HAVE TO SORT THROUGH MULTIPLE MORE OF OFFENSE REPORTS AND AUTHENTIC TO DETERMINE WHICH A OFFENSE FAULT PURE SHOW? SO UNDER, UNDER THE ORDINANCE WE CHAPTER 1 25 , THERE'S ONLY CERTAIN QUALIFYING FEE. 
          UM, SO THIS LIST THAT'S IN THE LETTER THAT THAT WAS COMPILED, PUT THEM IN THE PROGRAM DOES NOT INCLUDE ALL THE PRIME IN PROPERTY. 
          UM, SO THERE ARE REGULAR ASSAULT INVOLVED, BODI INJURIES, MOTOR VEHICLES, STEPS, THERE ARE DOZENS OF OTHER CRIMES THAT ARE NOT TAKEN INTO A TEST AS FAR AS THE POLICE. 
          UM, AND WAS THERE ALSO A HISTORY OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT THE PROPERTY OVER THE PREVIOUS TWO? THERE WAS. 
          SO THEY HAD SENT OTHER OFFICES AND AS PART OF THE DESIGNATION LETTER, IS THERE AN INITIAL NOTICE LETTER THAT GOES OUT? SURE. 
          SO I THINK THAT WAS PRETTY IN, UM, THE FIRST NOTICE LETTER IS THE LIST OF THE OFFENSE WITH THE HISTORY ON THE PROPERTY AND THEN A REQUEST TO THE PROPERTY OWNER THAT THEY COME MEET CITY PROVIDE WHATEVER EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAD OF REASONABLE TIME MEASURE THAT THEY HAD IN PLACE FOR THAT TIME PERIOD. 
          AND BY THAT TIME PERIOD, YOU MEAN PRIOR TO THE INCIDENT PROVIDER? SO, UM, THE LAST PAGE OF THE LETTER REQUEST FOR THE MEETING THAT THE EVIDENCE AT THE PROPERTY PRIOR TO AND DID THAT MEETING OCCUR? YES. 
          YES. 
          AND DID THE OWNERSHIP PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE OF CRIME, MR? WELL THEY PROVIDED EVIDENCE, UM, IN THE INFORM MEETING, THEY ALL SUBMITTED, UM, SUBMITTED ALL CONTROL ACTIVITIES. 
          THEY HAD COMPLETED THE CODE, FIRE INSPECTORS QUESTION THEN ONE SCENE OF CRIMINAL WARNING, MS. MS. RILEY, YOU'VE GOT ABOUT 10 MINUTES LEFT. 
          SO PRIOR TO THE AGENTS OF THE NOTICE LETTER, DID THEY HAVE ANY CAMERAS, , ANY SECURITY AT ALL ON THE PROPERTY? NO. 
          UM, SO THE ORDINANCE KIND OF LAYS OUT A, THE MINIMUM STANDARD THAT THEY WOULDN'T EXPECT THE PROPERTY OWNER TO HAVE REASONABLE MEASURE IN PLACE, WHICH TAKES THEM. 
          THE FIRST ONE IS BESTED, WHICH IS CRIME PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN. 
          UM, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THIS PROPERTY HAS IMPLEMENTS CRIME PREVENTION, ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN? UH, UM, SO THE GENERAL, SO I WOULD SAY YES, OVERALL. 
          UM, GENERALLY THAT WOULD'VE TO OVERGROWN, OVERGROWN TREES, WHICH THAT ARE COVERING LIGHTS, SECURITY CAMERAS, UM, OR OBSTRUCTING. 
          UM, SO ON THIS PROPERTY I DON'T SEE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT. 
          SO I WOULD SAY HAVE THAT. 
          AND THE NEXT THING IS, UH, MONITORING SURVEILLANCE, WHICH YOU STATED THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE. 
          YEAH, SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SECURITY CAMERAS MONITORING. 
          AND, UH, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I TALKED ABOUT BEING IN COMPLIANCE WITH CODE, UM, UM, AS PART OF THE SCENE, YOU GO OUT THERE WITH A CODE INSPECTOR AND THE FIRE INSPECTOR 
          [01:40:01]
AND ARE YOU AWARE OF CODE AND FIRE ISSUES? FIRE? YES. 
          I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER. 
          I KNOW THE CODE COMPLIANCE HAS NUMEROUS, UH, ISSUES AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS ISSUES. 
          UM, AND YOU HEARD MANAGEMENT TALK ABOUT THE CRIME WATCH MEETINGS THAT THEY'RE NOW HAVING ON THE PROPERTY. 
          IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD HAVE HAD ON THE PROPERTY PREVIOUSLY? SURE. 
          SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IN ORDER TO GET A MULTIFAMILY SECTION COMPLETE OR FINALIZED BY THE CODE DEPARTMENT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONTHLY CRIME LOCK MEETING, MAYBE MISTAKEN ON THAT PART TO THE CODE DEPARTMENT. 
          BUT GENERALLY IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, FOR THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE OFFER FREE CRIME LOCK MEETINGS. 
          UM, WE USUALLY RECOMMEND MONTHLY. 
          SO THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL THESE RESIDENTS SHOW AND HAVE A, HAVE A MEETING LIKE THIS. 
          UM, THAT COULD SIMPLY BE ME. 
          YOU CALL OR EMAIL THE NPO OFFICER, YOU KNOW, ONCE A MONTH SAY, HEY, CAN YOU EMAIL ME? YOU KNOW, 9 1 1 CALLS THE CRIME REPORTS. 
          ANY RECOMMENDATIONS? ARE THERE ANY ISSUES THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS HAVING? UM, BASICALLY THE MINIMUM WOULD JUST HAVE AN OPEN COMMUNICATION. 
          UM, AND REACHING OUT TO THE NCO UNIT, AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD POLICE OFFICER UNIT IS DESIGNED FOR. 
          UM, THEY ARE SET UP THROUGHOUT THE CITY TO, TO PROVIDE THAT. 
          AND IS THAT ALSO A WAY THAT THEY COULD HAVE, UH, FOUND OUT ABOUT OFFENSE DEPARTMENT? SURE, YEAH. 
          SO IT'S KIND OF A MULTI ASPECT. 
          SO OBVIOUSLY THE FIRST LAYER WOULD BE IF THEY DID THEIR OWN, UH, OPEN, OPEN RECORDS REQUEST , NATHAN X. 
          UM, SO THAT'S ONE WAY TO FIND OUT, UH, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT RECORDS ON THE PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE 9 1 1 CALLS ALL OFFENSES, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THE AVAILABLE OFFENSES AND ANY OTHER REPORTS THAT ARE DOCUMENTED ON THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, WE ALSO, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT ALSO HAS AN OPEN RECORDS, UM, PORTAL, WHICH I, I BELIEVE WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER ABOUT BLOCK AGAIN. 
          AND THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD GIVE YOU ALMOST, ALMOST THE SAME LIST AS WHAT WOULD BE IN, IN LETTER. 
          UM, IT'S VERY BASIC INFORMATION, BUT AT LEAST YOU WOULD KNOW DATE'S, TIME, AND OFFENSE. 
          UM, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE THIRD LAYER TO THAT WOULD BE HOLDING CRIME WATCH MEETINGS OR ON AT LEAST MONTHLY CONTACTING THE NPO UNIT TO PROVIDE MORE IN DETAIL IN DEPTH. 
          AND BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE, ALICE POLICE OFFICERED APPLY TO THE NUISANCE. 
          IS YOUR OPINION THAT THIS PROPERTY IS UN UNSAFE IN A PLACE FOR HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY? YES. 
          AND IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THIS PROPERTY HAS NOT IMPLEMENTED REASONABLE STEPS TO BASED TIME OF THE PRELIMINARY LETTERS? OKAY, SO THEY HAD VERY MINIMAL LIGHTING, NO SECURITY CAMERAS, UH, ANYWHERE ON THE PROPERTY, NO SECURITY PERSONNEL. 
          BUT BASICALLY ONCE THE, THE OFFICE CLOSED THAT NIGHT, THERE WAS NOBODY FROM MANAGEMENT OWNERSHIP, UM, SECURITY, ANYBODY MONITORING THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THERE'S NO CONTROLLED ACCESS. 
          UH, BUT I KNOW WE TALKED OR SOME OF THE BOARD MEMBERS TALKED ABOUT THE EVICTIONS OR WHO THE SUSPECT VICTIMS WERE. 
          SO FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SIDE, UM, I CAN TELL YOU A LOT OF THESE WERE SUSPENDED, WHICH MEANS WE DON'T HAVE ANY SUSPECT INFORMATION. 
          UM, WHICH TRANSLATES BACK INTO OWNERSHIP MANAGEMENT ISN'T GONNA REALLY HAVE MUCH MORE CAUSE THERE'S NO CONTROLLED ACCESS, SO IT'S PRE ROAMING. 
          SO WE DON'T KNOW IF THE VICTIM OR SUSPECT IS, IS PART OF THE COMMUNITY OR JUST DROVE OFF THE PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY, IT'S LIKE RESTRICTED, THERE'S NO CAMERA FOOTAGE. 
          SO WE JUST HAVE A GENERIC SUSPECT, UH, DESCRIPTION FROM THE VICTIM OR WITNESSES, UM, WHICH IS USUALLY INACCURATE. 
          UM, AND NOT AT FAULT FOR ANYBODY THERE. 
          BUT BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF LIGHTING, SO IF WE HAVE ORANGE LIGHTING, UM, ON THE PROPERTY OR WE HAVE DARK AREAS, WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A GOOD ACCURATE EQUIPMENT A HUNDRED FEET AWAY CAUSE IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT LIT UP. 
          AND THEN IF WE HAVE ORANGE LIGHTING, OLD LIGHTING, UM, OBVIOUSLY COLOR IS FACIAL FEATURES, VEHICLES ARE GOING TO BE DISTORTED SOMEWHAT. 
          UM, AND THEN IT DIDN'T, UH, HAVE ANY, ANY SECURITY SERVICES. 
          UH, WE DID REQUEST A COPY OF THE EVICT BEFORE WE VIOLATIONS IN THE INFORM MEETING. 
          UM, AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE WERE PROVIDED ANY THAT, SO WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THE OWNERSHIP KNOWS OF ANYBODY INVOLVED THAT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY ISSUED THESE VIOLATIONS OR EVICTIONS. 
          UM, SO IT'S ONE THING TO SAY WE HAVE THE VOTE STANDARD PA LEASE. 
          UM, IT'S ANOTHER THING TO SAY THAT WE ACTUALLY ENFORCED THE STANDARD IN THE LEASE AND OUR POLICIES THAT WE MAKE PEOPLE TRAVEL. 
          UM, SO I WOULD NOT SAY THAT THEY HAVE ANY RE THANK YOU. 
          AND AS FAR AS ALL THE REGIONAL MEASURES THAT THEY ARE NOW IMPLEMENTING IN RESPONSE TO THIS LETTER, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT 
          [01:45:01]
CAN BE USED, UH, TO REEVALUATE WHETHER THE DESIGNATION SHOULD BE LIFTED AT SOME POINT? YEAH, SO GOING FORWARD, GENERALLY OUR PROGRAM IS, UH, WE GET THE DESIGNATION THROUGH THE FEE, THE PLACARD. 
          UM, AND THEN WE WOULD, WE DO MONTHLY INSPECTION. 
          UM, SO MY PART OF THE INSPECTION WOULD BE EVALUATING ONE, THE CRIME, CURRENT CRIME TRANSFER BEFORE AND AFTER, WHAT WOULD, WHAT MEASURES THEY HAVE IN PLACE AND TO WHAT DEGREE. 
          UM, SO GOING FORWARD WE WOULD TAKE ALL THAT INTO ACCOUNT ON WHETHER OR NOT WE WOULD LIFT THE DESIGNATION. 
          AND THEN AT WHAT POINT, THANK YOU. 
          UM, BEFORE, UH, COURT QUESTION THE WITNESS SINCE YOU'VE BEEN GONE FOR ABOUT TWO HOURS, WANTS OBJECTION, FIVE MINUTE RECESS. 
          UH, SO WE WILL BE BACK ON THAT EIGHT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          IT IS NOW, UH, 10 30 AND WE ARE BACK FROM RECESS. 
          WE WILL, UH, START NOW WITH ANY APPELLANTS QUESTIONING OF THE CITY OR THE CITY'S WITNESSES. 
          UM, DETECTIVES ZELLAR. 
          AM I SAYING THAT CORRECTLY? LAR SIK. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, YOU MAY PROCEED. 
          YES, IT'S YOUR TURN. 
          YES. 
          BEFORE DECEMBER 22ND, 2022. 
          UM, YES AND NO. 
          I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT DATES, BUT YOU, BUT GENERALLY MOST OF THEM ARE, UH, TAKEN BEFORE 2022. 
          YES, MA THOSE ARE NOT ACCURATE REFLECTIONS OF WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IF YOU TOOK THOSE SAME IDENTICAL SHOTS TODAY. 
          WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? UM, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, IN FACT, YOU'RE AWARE THAT, UH, QUITE A BIT OF HEADWAY HAS BEEN MADE SINCE THE DECEMBER 22 LETTER BY MY CLIENT, CORRECT? YES. 
          UM, AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT'S REALLY THE CITY, THE DEPARTMENT IS NOT LOOKING AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW. 
          THEY'RE LOOKING AT WHAT THEY DID BEFORE THE NOTICE LETTER, CORRECT? UH, FOR THE DESIGNATION, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          NOW, UH, AS TO THE, UM, ISSUE OF A, OF THESE, UM, VARIOUS CHARGES THAT ARE IN THE NOTICE LETTER, WHICH IS EXHIBIT ONE, DO IF WE COULD HAVE EXHIBIT ONE, PAGE TWO, PUT BACK UP PLEASE. 
          WERE ANY OF THOSE, UM, CHARGES A A, UM, WERE YOU THE ARRESTING OFFICER OR THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER ON ANY OF THOSE? I WAS NOT, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          DO YOU KNOW WHO WAS NOT PERSONALLY, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THE, CAN YOU, CAN YOU TELL US ANYTHING FROM LOOKING AT WHAT'S ON THIS LIST, THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AS TO WHO'S WHO, WHAT OFFICER WOULD HAVE BEEN THE OFFICER TO INFORM THE APARTMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY OR ANYBODY THAT WAS THERE IN THE OFFICE THAT THESE CRIMES HAD BEEN COMMITTED? NOT OFF THIS LIST, NO. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, CAN, IS THERE SOMETHING IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT WOULD SHOW THAT? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          WHAT WOULD THAT BE CALLED? UM, SO THAT WOULD'VE BE AN OPEN RECORD REQUEST. 
          OPEN RECORD REQUEST. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, SO YOU HEARD THE TESTIMONY EARLIER OF MY CLIENT AND, AND, AND ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT THERE APPARENTLY ARE SOMEWHERE IN EXCESS OF 219 INCIDENTS THAT HAVE BEEN RE REPORTED BY APPARENTLY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          BUT YOU ALSO HEARD THE TESTIMONY THAT MY CLIENTS WERE NEVER INFORMED OF THAT YOU REMEMBER THAT TESTIMONY? YES. 
          YEP. 
          OKAY. 
          IS IT YOUR PERSONAL NORMAL PRACTICE TO INFORM, UH, THE APARTMENT MANAGEMENT OF A CRIME IF, IF ONE IS REPORTED TO YOU AND YOU INVESTIGATE IT? UM, SO IF I'M THE RESPONDING OFFICER OR INVESTIGATING OFFICER, NOT NORMALLY, UM, I WOULD SAY 50 50 DEPENDING ON WHAT TYPE OF THE OFFENSE WAS. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IT VARIES BY OFFENSE? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          AND WOULD YOU AGREE IF YOU DON'T INFORM THEM, THEY PROBABLY AREN'T GONNA FIND OUT FAIR, FAIR ENOUGH ASSUMPTION ON THAT? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PAGE TWO OF EXHIBIT ONE, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THAT FIRST ONE AS DESCRIBED IT, THAT THAT WAS THE UNFORTUNATE, UH, INSTANCE WHERE SOMEBODY DISCHARGED A RIFLE AND WENT DEFENDANT NEXT DOOR THROUGH THE WALL? YOU TALKING ABOUT THE MANSLAUGHTER MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE? YES. 
          I BELIEVE THOSE ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES. 
          WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THAT'S NOT AN AVAILABLE OFFENSE? 
          [01:50:01]
I WOULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT. 
          SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU DEPARTMENT COMPLEX COULD DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT SOMEBODY FROM HAVING A GUN IN THEIR APARTMENT AND ACCIDENTALLY DISCHARGING IT AND KILLING THE NEXT DOOR NATION? I WOULD SAY IT'S AN AVAILABLE OFFER OFFENSE PER STATUTE. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M NOT, I'M ASKING YOU HOW IS IT AVAILABLE? SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED THAT, UM, BUT THAT COULD HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED THESE CIRCUMSTANCES BEHIND THAT OFFENSE. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THEY COULD NOT HAVE ABATEMENT, THE AVERAGE PERSON UNDERSTANDS, ABATEMENT MEANS TO KIND OF DETER OR PREVENT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED, CORRECT? MM-HMM. 
          ? YES. 
          WE'RE WE'RE JUST ALL AVERAGE FOLKS OVER HERE? YES. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATUTE SAYS, BUT THE AVERAGE PERSON DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A STATUTE SAYS IN MY 45 YEARS OF FACTS AND LAW EXPERIENCE. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, POSSESSION OF A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE IN AN DEPARTMENT. 
          WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX CAN'T ABATE THAT? I WOULD SAY THERE ARE MEASURES IN PLACE THAT THEY COULD REASONABLY PREVENT OR REDUCE THOSE INCIDENTS. 
          WHAT ARE THOSE? LET'S JUST SHARE THOSE. 
          ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO, TO STORM THE APARTMENT AND DO A AND DO A SPOT CHECK? SO FOR INSTANCE, WE GENERALLY RECOMMEND AT LEAST ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR, MANAGEMENT OWNERSHIP WOULD DO AN INSPECTION OF AN APARTMENT. 
          UM, AND THAT WOULD LOOK FOR LIFE SAFETY ISSUES, FIRE SPRING CLEARERS, FIRE ALARMS, FIRE EXTINGUISHERS, UM, AND DO GENERAL MAINTENANCE. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, REPLACE AC FILTERS, CHECK APPLIANCES, CHECK GAS LINES, UM, CHECK FOR, UH, PEST AND ROADIN INSPECTIONS. 
          SO IF A COMPARTMENT COMPLEX OR OWNERSHIP IS DOING THAT ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR DURING THOSE INSPECTIONS, UM, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU GIVE NOTIFICATION, GO THROUGH ALL THE, UM, LEASE TERMS, RIGHT? YOU COULD FORESEEABLY SEE DRUGS, DRUG PARAPHERNALIA, UM, IN PLAIN VIEW, UM, WHICH WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE LEASE OR SHOULD BE ISSUED A LEASE VIOLATION. 
          WOULD IT SURPRISE YOU TO KNOW THAT ON NO. 
          IN NOVEMBER OF 19 20 22, THAT EXACT THING WAS DONE, THAT THAT WAS AN INSPECTION WAS DONE BY MY CLIENT OF THE DEPARTMENTS? UH, IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME CAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY SUBMITTED TO EVIDENCE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT DURING THOSE INSPECTIONS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK FOR DRUGS? I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, BUT DURING THE GENERAL COURSE OF THEIR DUTIES, IF THEY SEE DRUG PARAPHERNALIA THAT WOULD BE CAUSED FOR CONCERN? WELL, IF I SEE SOMEBODY WALKING DOWN THE HALLWAY HERE, WHEN WE LEAVE TODAY SMOKING TO JOINT, I GUESS I'M SUPPOSED TO TURN 'EM IN, CORRECT? YES. 
          AS AN OFFICER OF THE COURT, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT WE'RE LOOKING FOR STUFF THAT IS REASONABLE FOR SOMEBODY TO DO IN AN APARTMENT OF THIS SIZE TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM BLOWING SMOKE, BLOWING JOINTS, SHOOTING COKE, WHATEVER THEY DO IN THE PRIVACY AREA MOMENT. 
          YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME? WE CAN'T REALLY CONTROL OR PREVENT THAT, WOULDN'T YOU? I WOULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU. 
          I THINK YOU CAN CONTROL THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IN YOUR OPINION, THE POLICE STATE CAN CONTROL THAT, NOT THE POLICE STATE OWNERSHIP THEN. 
          SO OWNERSHIP SHOULD TAKE THE POSITION OF BEING THE POLICE STATE IN THIS CASE, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          I THINK ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR IT'D BE REASONABLE TO NOTIFY YOUR RESIDENCE THAT YOU'RE INSPECTING NO PROPERTY INSPECT. 
          WOULD YOU ALSO AGREE WITH ME, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT I'VE GOT LIMITED TIMING. 
          UH, WOULD YOU ALSO AGREE WITH ME THAT IT'S A RIGHT TO HAVE A FIREARM ON YOUR POSSESSION IN YOUR APARTMENTS? YES. 
          WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THERE'S NOTHING THAT MANAGEMENT CAN DO TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM HAVING A GUN IN THEIR APARTMENT? I'M SAY YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THERE'S NOT REALLY AN AB DEBATABLE ABILITY TO KEEP SOMEBODY FROM HAVING A, AN A FIREARM IF THEY DISCHARGE, IS THAT CORRECT? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO HOW ABOUT ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL? THERE'S THREE OF THOSE ON THIS EXHIBIT ONE, PAGE TWO. 
          CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE THOSE ROBBERIES OCCURRED ON THIS PROPERTY? WHERE ON THE PROPERTY? I DON'T KNOW. 
          INSIDE OR OUTSIDE AN APARTMENT? I CAN TELL MOST OF THOSE HAVE WHERE ALL OF THEM HAPPEN TO BE PARKING ON THE, HAPPENED IN THE PARKING LOT? YES. 
          AND DO YOU HAVE THE TENANT'S NAMES OF WHO WAS INVOLVED? I HAVE HAND, BUT THEY'RE IN THE POLICE REPORTS. 
          OKAY. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY INDICATION THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS INVESTIGATING IT REPORTED IT TO MR. EDDIE GA, THE DEPARTMENT MANAGER? I DON'T KNOW THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          YOU HEARD HIM TESTIFY THAT THEY THAT'S YOUR TIME, SIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WE WILL NOW PROCEED WITH, UM, THE QUESTIONING OF BOARD MEMBERS BY, OR THE QUESTIONING OF THE CITY BY THE BOARD MEMBERS. 
          AND AS BEFORE, WE'LL PROCEED IN, UH, DISTRICT ORDER BEGINNING WITH MS. ARIANO. 
          NO QUESTIONS. 
          UH, MS. WILLIS? NO QUESTIONS. 
          [01:55:03]
MS. TORRES, NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. 
          MR. CIA? YES. 
          CHAIR. 
          I HAD QUESTIONS. 
          UH, DETECTIVE, HAVE YOU HAD, HAVE YOU RECEIVED ANY OR SEEN ANY, UH, PHOTOS PROVIDED BY THE APARTMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY THAT UPDATE WHAT THE PROPERTY LOOKS LIKE NOW GIVEN THE UH, NO. 
          VERSUS THE PHOTOS THAT YOU HAD? OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          UM, IN REGARD TO THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, ONE OF THE SOLUTIONS OR ONE OF THE POSSIBLE WAYS THAT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX COULD HAVE FOUND OUT INFORMATION WAS PRESENTING TO THE DEPARTMENT, UM, FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT REQUESTS. 
          ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY REQUESTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE APARTMENT COMPLEX IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS? UM, I DO BELIEVE THEY MADE A REQUEST FOR THE ACCORD HEARING. 
          PRIOR TO THAT, NO. 
          PRIOR TO THAT, YOU HAD NOT, YOU DON'T, YOU DID NOT SEE ANY REQUESTS? NO. 
          AND YOU, YOU SEEM TO BE EXPLAINING, AND IT MAY HAVE BEEN, I JUST WASN'T ABLE TO HEAR CUZ I'M ON VIDEO, BUT WERE YOU, UM, IN REGARD TO HOW, WHAT IS THE PROCESS OR WHAT WERE YOU RECOMMENDING, I THOUGHT YOU WERE RECOMMENDING OF HOW AN APARTMENT COMPLEX WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO, I GUESS, INSTALL OR INSTILL SOME TYPE OF PROPOSED PROCESS IN REGARD TO TRACKING A TENANT IF THEY WERE INVOLVED IN A CRIME OR SOME TYPE OF INCIDENT IN DETERMINING WHETHER THEY, UM, SHOULD BE EVICTED. 
          WAS WERE YOU EXPLAINING THAT EARLIER? YEAH, SO GENERALLY WHAT, WHAT, WHAT I WOULD LOOK FOR, SO IF WE LOOK AT THE 10 OFFENSES THAT ARE CITED ON THE LETTER THERE, SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE MANSLAUGHTER, RIGHT? SO, UM, IF THEY WERE TO HAVE THEIR CRIME WATCH MEETINGS, THEY WOULD'VE, THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD, UM, BY THE N P O UNIT, HEY, YOU HAD SOMEONE WAS SHOT AND KILLED ON YOUR PROPERTY, HERE'S THE DATE TIME, HERE ARE THE INFORMATION, HERE'S THE REPORT. 
          UM, USUALLY OBVIOUSLY AFTER AN ARREST HAS BEEN MADE, UM, THE NM P O UNIT, UM, WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE, YOU KNOW, THE SUSPECT'S, UM, NAME OR INFORMATION. 
          UM, GENERALLY WHAT WE WOULD LOOK FOR IS WHETHER OR NOT ONE, THAT PERSON IS A TENANT OR, UH, AN INVITED GUEST ON THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, AND IF THEY WERE, WHAT ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS DID OWNERSHIP, UM, TAKE TO, TO, UM, RESOLVE THAT? SO IF IT WAS A TENANT, DID THEY ISSUE A LEASE VIOLATION? DID YOU DO AN EVICTION? DID YOU ISSUE A FINE? WHATEVER THEIR PROCESS IS SET UP, DID THEY TAKE THAT OUT? UM, SAME THING WITH IF IT'S AN AUTHORIZED GUESS. 
          SO MOST TAA LEASES OR GENERAL LEASES, IT SAYS YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LEASE VIOLATIONS THAT YOUR, YOUR, UH, AUTHORIZED OR INVITED GUEST, UM, IS INVOLVED IN. 
          UM, SO WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT DID THE OCCUPANT TENANT GET A LEASE VIOLATION, EVICTION NOTICE, OR A FINE? UM, BASED ON THAT, UM, IS GENERALLY WHAT WE LOOK FOR. 
          DID THEY TAKE ANY ACTION WITH THAT, WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE? DID THEY TAKE ANY ACTION WITH THEIR PROCESS SET UP AS FAR AS YOU WERE ABLE TO TELL IN YOUR INVESTIGATION AND DUE DILIGENCE? WERE YOU ABLE TO TELL WHETHER THE DEPARTMENT COMPLEX, THE MANAGEMENT TEAM HAD TAKEN ANY TYPE OF THEIR OWN STEPS, UM, TO BE ABLE TO EVICT ANYBODY OR TO ADDRESS ANY OF THESE CRIMES AND POSSIBLE TENANTS THAT SHOULD BE EVICTED? SO THAT WAS NEVER SUBMITTED TO US IN EVIDENCE, SO WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE DONE THAT. 
          THE ASSUMPTION IS IF NOT SUBMITTED. 
          THAT'S YOUR, THAT'S YOUR TIME FOR THIS ROUND. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. JEFFS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I DO THANK, UM, MS. RILEY, CAN YOU GIVE US THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF ABATEMENT? I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S A LEGAL DEFINITION FOR ABATEMENT. 
          WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IS THE ABBA OFFENSES, WHICH COME FROM CHAPTER 1 25 OF THE CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE. 
          I'M SORRY, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. 
          AND IT LISTS OUT THE OFFENSES THAT QUALIFY AS AN AVAILABLE OFFENSE. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, AND DETECTIVE STK, UH, WAS AN OPEN RE RECORDS REQUEST DONE SINCE THE NOVEMBER, OR EXCUSE ME, THE DECEMBER, 2022 NOTIFICATION. 
          OH, I'M UNDER THE ASSUMPTION IT WAS DONE, BUT I CAN'T DEFINITIVELY ANSWER THAT. 
          AND YOU, YOU SAID THAT THEY, WHEN THEY SHOWED SOME EVIDENCE OF WHAT, UH, WHAT THEY'VE DONE, THEY GAVE YOU THE LEAVE THE TENANT HANDBOOK, ET CETERA. 
          UM, 
          [02:00:01]
WERE ANY OF THOSE DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE IN OTHER, IN, UH, OTHER LANGUAGES BESIDES ENGLISH? UH, YES. 
          I BELIEVE THE TA LEAVES AND THEN THEIR CRIMINAL HISTORY, UH, APPLICATION AND LEASE, WHICH ALSO IN SPANISH. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          NOTHING FURTHER. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, SORRY, MR. HAYES. 
          I HAVE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES, I DO PROCEED. 
          UH, BOARD DETECTIVE LARS, UM, CLEARLY MR. QUENT POINTED OUT THERE'S BEEN A LONG, LONG HISTORY OF, UH, PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PARTICULAR APARTMENT COMPLEX. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OR OPINION OF WHY IT TOOK UNTIL DECEMBER OF 2022 TO INITIATE THE PROCEDURE TO DECLARE IT AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY? SO MY KNOWLEDGE IS THE DETECTIVE THAT WAS IN MY POSITION, UM, WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN ASSIGNED TO NORTH CENTRAL. 
          HE HAS BEEN ON MILITARY DEPLOYMENT FOR, I WANNA SAY A YEAR AND A HALF. 
          UM, SO THERE HAS BEEN A WHOLE, AT LEAST AS FAR AS THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT AND SOMEONE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NORTH CENTRAL DIVISION. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND THEN PRIOR TO THAT, OBVIOUSLY THE ORDINANCE HAD ONLY BEEN CREATED TWO YEARS AGO. 
          SO YEAH, THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION. 
          I HAVE A TWO-PRONGED QUESTION FOR YOU, DETECTIVE. 
          UM, THIS IS PART OF WHAT IS REFERRED TO BY AT LEAST COUNSEL PERSON, SCHULTZ AS THE ESP ESPANZA DISTRICT, WHICH HAS SEVERAL APARTMENT COMPLEXES IN IT THAT SEEM, IF YOU READ CRIME REPORTS TO BE A VERY HIGH CRIME AREA, UH, THAT PARTICULARLY UP AND DOWN ESPERANZA STREET, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT WEST OF THIS PARTICULAR COMPLEX. 
          SO MY, MY TWO-PRONGED QUESTION IS HOW DOES THE CRIME RATE HERE COMPARE TO OTHER NEIGHBORING COMPLEXES? AND SECOND PART IS HOW ARE THE SECURITY PROCEDURES SUCH AS LIGHTING, SECURITY PATROLS, OFF-DUTY, POLICEMEN, CAMERAS, ET CETERA, UH, COMPARE AT OTHER NEIGHBORING COMPLEXES? SURE. 
          SO I CAN SPEAK KIND OF GENERALLY ABOUT ANOTHER PROPERTY ON ESPANZA, UM, WHICH IS, I WOULD SAY COMPARABLE IN SIZE AND UNITS. 
          UM, SO THEY WOULD HAVE SIMILAR OR LACK OF CRIME PREVENTION MEASURES SO THAT THEIR PROPERTY'S NOT GATED, UM, NO SECURITY, NO MONITORING, UH, AND HALF THEIR LIGHTS DON'T WORK. 
          THEY HAVE LIGHTS, BUT THEY DON'T WORK. 
          SO IN, IN COMPARISON, THAT PROPERTY HAS ALSO, UM, I GUESS WITHOUT JEOPARDIZING THAT, THAT, UH, PLATE IS THAT THAT PROPERTY HAS ALSO BEEN PLACED IN THE PROGRAM AND IS BEING EVALUATED, UM, GOING THROUGH THE SAME PROCESSES AS LANDMARK. 
          UM, AND THAT PROPERTY IS OFF ESPERANZA. 
          UM, AND THEN AS FAR AS CRIME, IT'S THE NUMBERS, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS, IT IS COMPARABLE. 
          I THINK THE OTHER PROPERTY HAS LIKE 13 OFFENSES. 
          UM, ALTHOUGH SOMETHING ELSE WE DO LOOK AT IS THE TYPE OF OFFENSE. 
          SO THE ONES AT LANDMARK ARE AGGRAVATED AND VIOLENT FELONIES. 
          UM, SAME THING WITH THE OTHER PROPERTY OFF ESPANZA. 
          UM, SO IT'S NOT FIVE CRIMINAL MISCHIEFS OR FIVE PROPERTY DAMAGE OFFENSES. 
          IT'S AGGRAVATED ROBBERY, UM, AGGRAVATED ASSAULT, WHICH IS, WHICH IS CAUSING SERIOUS BODILY INJURY. 
          SO THE, TO COMPARE THEM, I WOULD BE, THEY WOULD, THEY'RE ALMOST SIMILAR, I WOULD SAY. 
          UM, AND THEN SAME THING WITH THEIR CRIME PREVENTION MEASURED OR, OR LACK THEREOF. 
          CRIME PREVENTION MEASURED. 
          OKAY. 
          D P D HAS A PROGRAM GOING ON THAT I UNDERSTAND MAY BE A LITTLE BIT AFFECTED BY THE COMPUTER ISSUES RIGHT NOW, WHERE CERTAIN CRIME HOT HOTSPOTS ARE GETTING EXTRA POLICE ATTENTION. 
          IS THIS AMONG THOSE SPOT HOT DESIGNATED HOTSPOTS? I KNOW THE ESPERANZA AREA IS, UM, I DON'T KNOW OFFHAND SPECIFICALLY IF THIS PROPERTY IS A DESIGNATED PLACE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, IF, IF MY, UH, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR TIME, MR. OKAY. 
          I'LL WAIT ON MY SECOND TWO MINUTES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, MR. QUINN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES, SIR, I DO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, PROCEED. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          DETECTIVE STAARS, NICK, UM, MR. LEONARD, UM, WHEN HE QUESTIONED YOU, HE AGAIN FOCUSED ON THE 17 EVENTS THAT WAS IN THE CITY'S LETTER, YET WE SEE THERE WERE 218 OFFENSES. 
          SO MR. LEONARD ASKED YOU, IS IT COMMON PRACTICE FOR THE POLICE TO NOTIFY A COMPLEX? AND YOU VERY CLEARLY STATED IT'S A 50 50 THING, GIVE OR TAKE. 
          SO 
          [02:05:01]
I, I'M, I'M KIND OF CURIOUS AS TO WHY 109 EVENTS WERE NOT ADDRESSED. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S MORE OF A STATEMENT THAN A QUESTION BECAUSE IT KIND OF SAYS SOMETHING'S MISSING IN THIS EQUATION. 
          SO IN YOUR OPINION, UM, WE, WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE'S LACK OF LIGHTING AND WHAT WAS THERE WAS NOT PARTICULARLY WORKING WELL. 
          WOULD MORE LIGHTING MAKE A REAL BIG DIFFERENCE? UH, FOR Y SO POLICE DEPARTMENT WISE, YES, BECAUSE IT WOULD GIVE A MORE ACCURATE SUSPECT DESCRIPTION. 
          SO INSTEAD OF SAYING UNKNOWN SUSPECT, UH, RACE, SEX, WEARING DARK CLOTHING, WE, WE COULD, UH, IF BETTER L E D LIGHTING, UM, WOULD ENDOWED GIVE US MORE OF AN ACCURATE SUSPECT DESCRIPTION. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          SO MY, MY NEXT QUESTION, SO THEY FIXED THE FENCE AS I GUESS WHEN NEEDED, BUT WITH THE CYCLONE FENCE STAYING IN PLACE, WOULD THAT DETER ANYONE FROM TRYING TO BREAK IN AGAIN? UH, SO AS OF RIGHT NOW, UH, NO, BECAUSE WHEN THEY REPAIR THE FENCE, SO AS LAST TIME I CHECKED, THEY HAD JUST PUT CHICKEN WIRE OVER THE GAP. 
          UM, SO THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING SUBSTANTIAL, UM, CUZ JUST REPAIRING SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT THEY KNOW IS GONNA GET BROKEN AGAIN. 
          I MEAN, IT'S JUST A, A CIRCLE CYCLICAL. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING THE BARE MINIMAL THAT THEY, THEY CAN, SO TO SPEAK, SO YES. 
          PROPERTY OF SECURITY GATES THAT YOU HAVE TO USE A CODE TO GET IN, DO THEY, THEY DON'T. 
          SO THERE, SO THEREFORE THIS PROPERTY IS TOTALLY EXPOSED 24 7? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IN YOUR OPINION, HAVING CAMERAS RUNNING 24 HOURS A DAY, BUT WITHOUT MONITORING 24 HOURS A DAY, IS THIS A DETERRENT? IT IS A DETERRENT. 
          I WOULD SAY IT'S A MINIMAL DETERRENT. 
          UM, BECAUSE IN IN SECURITY WE ALWAYS WANT LAYERS. 
          SO JUST BECAUSE IF, IF THEY JUST PUT, SO IF A PROPERTY JUST PUTS CAMERAS ON A PROPERTY, UM, IT'S A DETERRENT TO ONLY THOSE WHO ARE REALLY JUST LOOKING FOR THE CAMERAS, UM, IN THE RESPECT THAT YOU'RE STILL NOT CONTROLLING ACCESS. 
          SO CAMERAS ARE MAINLY, MAINLY AFTER THE FACT. 
          SO THEY WOULD CAPTURE THE OFFENSE OR INTELLIGENCE OR INFORMATION AFTER THE FACT. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND THEN SLIGHT DETERRENT, SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. 
          I ONLY HAVE SO MINIMAL TIME. 
          SO WITH ALL THESE THINGS WITH LIGHTING, VERY POOR. 
          MINIMAL FIXING OF THE GATES. 
          NO. 
          UM, NO ENTRY GATES, NO MONITOR CAMERAS. 
          SO WOULD YOU SAY THAT THIS IS GONNA CONTINUE TO BE A HABITUAL CRIME, UH, UH, LOCATION? YES. 
          UM, I WILL, YES. 
          ALL RIGHT, SIR. 
          AND THAT, THAT IS, THAT IS YOUR TIME FOR THIS ROUND. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE PROCEEDING. 
          UM, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES. 
          OKAY, DETECTIVE. 
          UM, FIRST HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THE 9 1 1, UM, RESPONSE WORKS FOR THAT AREA SINCE IT SEEMS TO BE KIND OF ON THE BORDER OF DALLAS? UM, IF SOMEONE AT THAT LOCATION CALLS 9 1 1, WHICH POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL RESPOND? UM, SO THE, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THERE'S NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER, UM, CUZ IT IS ON THE BORDER OF RICHARDSON. 
          UM, SO I DO KNOW IN THE, I GUESS THE, THE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, THE MASS SHOOTING THAT HAPPENED THERE. 
          UM, RICHARDSON PD WAS THE, ACTUALLY THE FIRST OFFICER ON SCENE. 
          UM, SO IT, IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHERE THE CELL PHONE OR WHERE THE LANDLINE BOUNCES OFF THE CELL PHONE TOWER IS. 
          HOW THE, WHEN YOU CALL 9 1 1, WHAT DISPATCH CENTER DO YOU WOULD GET? SO SOME CALLS WOULD GO TO RICHARDSON, UM, AND THEN THEY USUALLY TRANSFER TO US. 
          UM, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE OTHER ONES WOULD COME DIRECTLY TO DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          SO THE CALLS THAT RICHARDSON POLICE DEPARTMENT RESPOND TO OR ARE TRANSFERRED FROM 9 1 1, ARE THOSE DOCUMENTED IN THE EXHIBITS THAT WE SEE TODAY OR ARE THOSE JUST THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT RESPONSES? THOSE WOULD BE DOCUMENTED IN THE 9 1 1 CALLS BECAUSE WHEN TRA WHEN THE TRANSFER COMES INTO OUR 9 1 1 CENTER, THEY WOULD CREATE A DALLAS PD CALL SHEET. 
          UM, SO IT WOULD BE DOCUMENTED IN THE 9 1 1 CALL. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          AND THEN, UM, EARLIER, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S MR. LEONARD SAID THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE, UH, GATES FOR GATED ACCESS TO THE APARTMENTS DUE TO SPRING VALLEY. 
          IS THAT BECAUSE OF TRAFFIC CONTROL OR DO YOU HAVE ANY FROM YOUR POSITION, DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THAT'S AN ACCURATE STATEMENT? 
          [02:10:01]
UM, SO IN THE ACCORD MEETING WE DID DISCUSS THAT. 
          UM, AND THE ONLY RE THE REASON WE GOT FROM OWNERSHIP WAS THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BACKUP TRAFFIC ONS, SPRINGING VALLEY. 
          UM, ALTHOUGH THAT WOULD NOT BE MY DETERMINATION, UM, GOING OUT THERE ONSITE SPEAKING WITH CODE AND FIRE INSPECTORS. 
          SO OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE RE RESTRICTIONS ON ACCESS. 
          UM, AND I BELIEVE THE ONLY RESTRICTION THAT THEY HAVE WHERE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS IT HAS TO BE, UH, 20 FEET AWAY FROM THE ROADWAY. 
          UM, SO ON THEIR PROPERTY THEY CAN, I WOULD SAY THEY COULD REASONABLY AT LEAST GET EVALUATION BY GATE COMPANIES TO HAVE AN INCEST, UH, GATE, UM, THAT FITS FIRE CO, WHICH WOULD BASICALLY MEAN 20 FEET BACK ONTO THEIR PROPERTY, UM, WHICH WOULD ALSO ALLOW 2, 3, 4, 5 CARS PARKED ON THEIR DRIVEWAY BEFORE ACTUALLY GATING ONTO SPRING VALLEY. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          I APPRECIATE IT. 
          THAT'S ALL CHAIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, I'VE GOT, UH, SEVERAL QUESTIONS FOR YOU, DETECTIVE. 
          UM, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR, FOR COMING TO, UM, SPEAK TO US TODAY. 
          UM, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A POLICE OFFICER, WHY DO PEOPLE SHOOT OUT LIGHTS? UM, GENERALLY BECAUSE THEY'RE COMFORTABLE THAT THEY CAN DO IT. 
          UM, AND THEN THERE'S GONNA BE NO REPERCUSSIONS. 
          UH, AND DO YOU KNOW THE, THE PHOTOGRAPH OF ONE OF THESE SHOT OUT LIGHTS, UM, THAT YOU POINTED OUT TO US, YOU FELT WAS SHOT OUT WITH PELLETS OR DVDS? DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT WAS SHOT OUT? I DO NOT KNOW. 
          BUT ON INSPECTING THE PROPERTY, WAS THAT APPARENT TO YOU OR WAS THAT SOMETHING NO, IT WAS APPARENT THERE. 
          UM, AND THEN ON MY NOTES HERE, I'VE, I'VE DONE KIND OF SIX TO EIGHT INSPECTIONS ON THE PROPERTY AND IT'S, IT'S BEEN THERE ALL, ALL THE TIME. 
          SO MY INSPECTIONS ARE USUALLY ONCE EVERY TWO TO THREE WEEKS ON THE PROPERTY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THIS IS NOT, YOU WOULD NOT DESCRIBE THAT AS A NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR THING THAT WE I WAS WAITING TO GET FIXED? NO. 
          UM, I, IN, IN YOUR INSPECTIONS, DO YOU HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE RESIDENTS? UH, OCCASIONALLY. 
          UM, THEY WILL COME OUT, ASK US. 
          I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GONNA COME OUT, BE NOSY, ASK US WHY THE POLICE ARE OUT THERE. 
          UM, AND THEN WE JUST HAVE GENERAL CONVERSATION. 
          DO YOU EVER TALK TO THE RESIDENTS ABOUT THEIR IMPRESSION OF HOW MANAGEMENT IS RUNNING THE PROPERTY? SURE. 
          SO, UH, AFTER THIS, THIS MULTIPLE SHOOTING THAT HAPPENED ON THE PROPERTY AT DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT WENT OUT THERE, DID A COMMUNITY EVENT. 
          SO WE WENT DOOR TO DOOR TO SEVERAL RESIDENTS ON THE PROPERTY AND GAVE OUT A QUESTIONNAIRE. 
          UM, AND THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF THE QUESTIONNAIRE WAS THEY, THEY DON'T EVER SEE SECURITY. 
          UM, AND THIS WAS AFTER THE ACCORD MEETING. 
          SO WHEN THEY WOULD'VE HAD SECURITY ON THE PROPERTY, THEY DON'T EVER SEE, SEE SECURITY, UM, THERE'S NO COMMUNITY EVENTS, NO CRIME WATCH MEETINGS, UM, AND THEN WHATEVER COMPLAINTS THAT THEY HAVE REGARDING THE PROPERTY, NOT NECESSARILY RELATING TO CRIME, BUT JUST IN GENERAL COMPLAINTS, THEY'RE UNANSWERED THROUGH THE OFFICE. 
          IN, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, IF RESIDENTS HAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT, UM, MANAGEMENT IS APATHETIC TOWARDS CRIME OR MISCHIEF TAKING PLACE ON THE PROPERTY, DOES THAT MAKE RESIDENTS AND VISITORS MAYBE FEEL MORE FREE TO COMMIT CRIME ON THE PROPERTY? YES. 
          SO I WOULD SAY IF, IF, IF THE PERCEPTION IS THERE THAT OWNERSHIP MANAGEMENT DOES NOT ENFORCE ANY RULES ON THE PROPERTY, UM, WHETHER IT'S CLEANING UP LITTER OR SHOOTING OUT LIGHTS OR JUST, YOU KNOW, NOISE ORDINANCE VIOLATIONS OR, OR YOU KNOW, COMPILING TRASH OUTSIDE THAT THEY WOULD BE MORE WILLING TO DO, IT'S KINDA LIKE A STAIRSTEP. 
          SO THEN YOU START WITH, OH, OKAY, WELL THEN I DON'T HAVE TO DO X, Y, Z BECAUSE MANAGEMENT ISN'T GONNA ENFORCE THE RULE, WHICH WOULD THREE MONTHS DOWN THE LINE, IF THEY'RE WILLING TO DO THAT, UM, THEY WILL, THEY WOULD ESCALATE. 
          AND WOULD YOU SAY IN YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT MAYBE NEW RESIDENTS WHO ARE LIKELY TO COMMIT CRIMES ARE MORE LIKELY TO GRAVITATE TO COMPLEXES WHERE THEY THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT? YES. 
          UM, DO YOU THINK THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER IS CURRENTLY DOING ENOUGH? I DO NOT, NO. 
          UH, THAT'S MY TIME. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, WE'LL GO BACK THROUGH. 
          UM, MR. ANO, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THIS TIME? NO QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MS. WILLOW? I JUST HAVE ONE AND THIS MAY, UM, EARLIER, SO IT WAS BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE CRIME WATCH MEETING, NOT, UH, TAKING PLACE BECAUSE THERE WASN'T A TRANSLATOR FROM, I GUESS WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          SO TO REMEDY, REMEDY THAT SITUATION, UH, 
          [02:15:01]
WOULD IF THE PROPERTY MANAGERS PROVIDED A TRANSLATOR, WOULD POLICE DEPARTMENT MOVE FORWARD WITH CONDUCTING THE CRIME WATCH? OR DOES THAT HAVE THE TRANSLATOR HAVE TO BE FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? NO, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE WHY THEY WOULD NOT MOVE FORWARD WITH A CRIME WATCH MEETING IF A TRANSLATOR WAS THERE. 
          WELL, THEY'RE NOT FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR FROM THE PROPERTY. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THAT'S IT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU MS. UH, MS. TORRES. 
          NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. 
          CHAIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. CIA, YOU HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS? YES. 
          THANK YOU CHAIR. 
          UH, DETECTIVE, I JUST WANNA KNOW IF YOU WERE AWARE THE JANUARY 28TH INCIDENT THAT WAS REPORTED BY THE ACTUAL, I GUESS THEY CALL 'EM THE COURTESY PATROL. 
          THERE WAS AN EXHIBIT ONE PROVIDED BY THE, UM, BY THE, UM, PROPERTY OWNER THAT ON PAGE 60 THROUGH 61 AND IT COULD BE PULLED UP, OR I CAN JUST TELL YOU THE, THE GIST OF IT WAS, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GRAB IT REAL QUICK. 
          UM, THE GIST OF IT WAS, IS THAT THERE WERE AUTOMATIC GUNS FOUND. 
          UM, THERE WAS, UH, LET'S SEE IF I CAN GET SOMETHING. 
          THOUGHT I HAD IT UP AT 61 AT THE TIME. 
          SORRY. 
          BUT BASICALLY WERE YOU, ARE YOU MADE AWARE OR IS ANYONE MADE AWARE WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OF WHAT THE COURTESY PATROL FINDS? UH, NOT SO NORMAL. 
          I GUESS THE, NOR I, I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, I DON'T, YEAH, I CAN'T SEE THE IDEA. 
          BUT NORMALLY IF THERE WAS CAUSE FOR CONCERN EITHER THE SECURITY COMPANY OR OWNERSHIP WOULD REPORT CALL, OBVIOUSLY CALL 9 1 1 OR IF THEY WERE IN CONTACT WITH THE M P O UNIT, THAT'S KIND OF WOULD BE THEIR FIRST STEP. 
          SO EITHER 9 1 1, GO TO THE STATION OR CALL THEIR, THEIR, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD POLICE OFFICER OR EMAIL THEM REGARDING THE ISSUE, OR IF THEY HAVE LEGAL QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING ALONG THAT ASPECT. 
          YEAH, AND I'LL JUST SAY, I MEAN, THE HIGHLIGHT WAS 9:00 PM TO 10 30. 
          OFFICER LEON AND OFFICER TURNER ASSUMED THOSE WERE PART OF THE COURTESY PATROL. 
          THEY FOUND, YOU KNOW, AN SEVEN MACHINE GUNS, UH, AK 47 RIFLE SHOTGUNS FOUND COCAINE, A BIG BOX OF HARVESTING MUSHROOMS, MARIJUANA SEALED IN BACKING. 
          THIS WAS ALL AT A TENANT'S PLACE WHILE THERE WAS A, ESSENTIALLY AN OUTDOOR PARTY GOING ON IN APARTMENT 1 0 1, APARTMENT 1 22. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY AWARENESS OF WHETHER THOSE TENANTS WOULD HAVE BEEN EVICTED, THOSE PARTICULAR TENANTS AT APARTMENT 1 22 OR 1 0 1? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT 1 21. 
          I KNOW 1, 1 0 1. 
          UM, I THINK THEY WERE THE APARTMENT YOU SAID. 
          I BELIEVE WE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSING THOSE TENANTS IN THE LAST CONVERSATION WITH MANAGEMENT WAS THAT THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING EVICTED OR ARE BEING EVICTED. 
          UM, SO I BELIEVE THEY ARE TAKING AND JUST TO CUT, SORRY, TO CUT YOU OFF, I GUESS WAS, WAS WHEN YOU SAID, WHEN WAS THAT CONVERSATION HAPPENING? WAS THAT IN JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH, OR WAS THAT LIKE MAY OR WHEN WAS THAT HAPPENING? UH, I WOULD SAY JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH. 
          IT HAPPENED AFTER THE ACCORD MEETING ON, ON SOME OF THE INSPECTIONS WE WERE OUT THERE. 
          WHAT ABOUT APARTMENT? THAT'S YOUR TIME, MR. CIA. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, YEAH, I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR THE DETECTIVE. 
          UH, SINCE THE MEETING, UH, FROM JANUARY BETWEEN DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CALLS DID THE POLICE RELATED TO THAT PROPERTY HAVE BEEN MADE? UH, I DON'T KNOW OFFHAND. 
          I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT NINE ONE ONE CALL LIST. 
          MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? I HAVE ONE FOLLOW UP QUESTION FOR THE DETECTIVE. 
          UM, PRIOR TO THE DECEMBER ISSUANCE OF THE LETTER DETERMINATIONS OF H C P, HAD YOU PERSONALLY MET WITH OR EVEN MET MR. LEONARD OR MR. MCG GALLEGOS? I HAVE NOT. 
          DO YOU KNOW OF ANY SENIOR OFFICERS FROM NORTH CENTRAL WHO MIGHT HAVE NOT THAT I KNOW OF, PERSONALLY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S IT. 
          THANK YOU, MR. HAYES. 
          UH, MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? YES, SIR, I DO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO MR. PROCEED, I'M SORRY. 
          PLEASE PROCEED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO DETECTIVE, I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWER, UM, IS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY UP FROM 22 
          [02:20:01]
TO 23? UM, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY IT'S ON TRACK. 
          UM, SO SINCE JANUARY, UH, OF THIS YEAR, THEY'VE HAD THREE DEBATABLE OFFENSES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO MOVING ON. 
          SO, SO IF THEY REPLACE THE CYCLONE FENCE WITH A BRICK OR WATER IRON FENCE, WOULD THAT MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE? I BELIEVE IT WOULD, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, WE KNOW MOST OF THE CRIMES ARE OCCURRING FROM DUSTED ON INSTEAD OF HAVING SPOT SECURITY THAT COMES THROUGH FOR FIVE OR 10 OR 15 MINUTES EVERY FEW HOURS OR COUPLE OF HOURS, WOULD HAVING OFF-DUTY POLICE OFFICERS AND A CRUISER THERE FROM DUST AND DON MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE? I WOULD SAY COMPARING THEM, I WOULD SAY YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE, THEY SAID THAT THEY DON'T WANNA PUT A GATE IN FOR BACKED UP TRAFFIC. 
          UM, IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT MORE OF AN EXCUSE THAN, THAN A REAL ANSWER? I WOULD SAY YES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO ONE LAST QUESTION, SIR. 
          SO LIGHTS OUT, TERRIBLE MAINTENANCE. 
          IS THIS A DERELICTION OF DUTY BY THE COMPANY TO THE RESIDENCE? I MEAN, IF YOU ASKED MY OPINION, I WOULD SAY YES. 
          YES, SIR. 
          I WAS ASKING YOUR OPINION AS A, AS A D OWNER. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          YES. 
          SO THANK I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER, SIR. 
          IS THAT ALL? THANK YOU. 
          YES, I'M DONE. 
          I'M DONE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS? NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU, CHAIR. 
          ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. 
          UH, DETECTIVE, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A QUESTION THAT YOU CAN ANSWER, UM, BUT HOW, FOR, FOR THE PURPOSES OF, UH, DETERMINING WHETHER A PROPERTY IS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY AND COUNTING UP THE, THE CRIMES, HOW DOES THE CITY DEFINE ONE PROPERTY? UH, SO WE WOULD GO ON THE DALLAS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT, UM, AND THEY HAVE A MAP. 
          UM, AND GENERALLY YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE MAP, THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION, WHICH IS, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, THIS ONE IS DALLAS CITY BLOCK 77 60. 
          UM, SO IT'S GENERALLY HOW THE COUNTY AND THE STATE DEFINE THE PROPERTY LINES. 
          OKAY. 
          THIS, I MEAN, THIS IS A VERY LARGE PROPERTY WITH LOT, WITH HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE LIVING THERE. 
          SURE. 
          RIGHT. 
          IS THE AMOUNT OF, UH, AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES. 
          AND, AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THE, THE LIST IN THE LETTER IS FILTERED. 
          UM, BUT IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT A LARGE AMOUNT OF VIOLENT CRIMES FOR A PROPERTY THIS LARGE WITH THIS MANY UNITS? UM, I WOULD SAY YES. 
          UM, AND IN COMPARISON, I WOULD SAY I HAVE ANOTHER PROPERTY THAT HAS OVER A THOUSAND UNITS. 
          UM, AND THEY, I WANNA SAY THEY HAVE 15 AVAILABLE OFFENSES WHEN THEY IN THE PROGRAM. 
          UM, SO THIS PROPERTY HAS 243, I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM, AND THEY HAVE 10 OFFENSES. 
          SO THAT'S, I WOULD SAY YES. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S VERY HELPFUL. 
          UM, UH, I, I, I WAS ASKING ABOUT, UM, WHAT KIND OF DRAWS PEOPLE OR WHETHER THEY'RE BEING CRIME AT A PROPERTY COULD DRAW A CERTAIN, UH, UM, TYPE OF TENANT. 
          IS THE OPPOSITE ALSO TRUE IF IT'S KNOWN THAT MANAGEMENT WILL EVICT PEOPLE FOR HAVING FIREARMS OR NOT FOR HAVING FIREARMS, BUT MAYBE FOR DISCHARGING FIREARMS, FOR SHOOTING OUT LIGHTS, FOR CUTTING HOLES IN THE FENCE FOR HAVING, UH, ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES IN THAT APARTMENT? DOES THAT KIND OF, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, DOES THAT KIND OF GET AROUND? UH, UM, SO ARE YOU, I MEAN, WOULD, WOULD, WOULD THAT BE A DETERRENT IF, IF MANAGEMENT WAS EVICTING PEOPLE FOR HAVING ILLEGAL CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES IN THEIR APARTMENT? IS THAT THE KIND OF THING THAT GETS AROUND AMONG THE TENANTS? YES. 
          YES. 
          SO THEIR REPUTATION OF, FOR LACK OF A TERM, NOT, NOT, NOT PLAYING AROUND, UM, AND EVICTING PEOPLE THAT WOULD GET AROUND TO THE COMMUNITY AND WOULD ATTRACT MORE LEGITIMATE TENANTS THERE ON THE PROPERTY. 
          UM, AND IT WOULD, IT WOULD IN, I WOULD SAY IT WOULD, IN, IN AN ASPECT, IT WOULD DETER THOSE WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT CRIMES. 
          AND IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE IS, NOT TO PREVENT INDIVIDUAL SPECIFIC CRIMES, BUT TO ENCOURAGE PROPERTY OWNERS TO HAVE A PROPERTY WHERE IT'S SORT OF KNOWN THAT THAT STUFF IS NOT ALLOWED? THAT WOULD BE ONE ASPECT, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, ANY BOARD MEMBERS WHO 
          [02:25:01]
HAD PASSED IN THE PREVIOUS ROUND WHO WOULD LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, THEN WE WILL PROCEED WITH, UH, CLOSING STATEMENTS, UH, FIVE MINUTES EACH BEGINNING WITH THE APPELLANT. 
          UH, THANK YOU, UH, BOARD MEMBERS FOR LISTENING AND, AND, AND, UH, CONSIDERING THIS, I THINK YOUR JOB IS, IS, IS BOTH SIMPLE AND COMPLEX, COMPLEX. 
          IF YOU GO WITH THE CITY'S INTERPRETATION OF HOW THIS SHOULD BE DONE, UH, SIMPLE, IF YOU GO WITH MINE, THAT'S GONNA BE UP TO YOU. 
          UH, VERY SIMPLY, AS THE STATUTE SAYS, YOUR JOB IS TO DETERMINE, AND I QUOTE, UH, FROM THE STATUTE, UH, IN DECIDING THE APPEAL, THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD IS LIMITED TO THE ISSUES OF WHETHER THE PRESUMPTIONS IN SECTION 27 48 ARE SATISFIED. 
          WE SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN IN SO FAR AS THE REQUIREMENTS ARE THAT THEY BE A, UH, PROVABLE FROM THEM. 
          IN OTHER WORDS, THEY HAVE TO ESTABLISH, UH, THAT THERE'S SOME ACTIVITY THAT IS AVAILABLE. 
          NOW, IF YOU TRULY THINK THAT IT'S AVAILABLE TO STOP SOMEBODY FROM HAVING A GUN IN THEIR APARTMENT AND ACCIDENTALLY HAVING A DISCHARGE THAT KILLS SOMEBODY, THEN I GUESS WE JUST WILL HAVE TO DIFFER ON OPINIONS THERE. 
          I DON'T SEE HOW THAT CAN BE AVAILABLE. 
          UH, IF YOU THINK HAVING A LIGHT OUTSIDE STOPS THAT THEN, AND THEN YOUR, OBVIOUSLY YOUR DECISION IS IN THAT DIRECTION. 
          IF ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU THINK THAT, UM, SOMEBODY HAVING DRUGS IN THEIR APARTMENT IS AVAILABLE BY WHETHER OR NOT YOU'VE GOT A FRONT GATE OR A LIGHT OR SOMETHING, THEN YOU, YOU OBVIOUSLY WANNA RULE IN THAT DECISION THAT WAY. 
          I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, BASED UPON THE TESTIMONY OF THE OFFICER AS WELL AS THE CITY'S OPENING, THE PURPOSE IS THE PURPOSE OF HIS ORDINANCE, PUNISHMENT OR PREVENTION. 
          IF IT'S PUNISHMENT, THEN, WHICH IS WHAT IT KIND OF SEEMS HERE, THEN YOU IGNORE WHAT EFFORTS HAVE BEEN MADE. 
          YES, THERE'S NO QUESTION. 
          THERE WERE SOME ISSUES OUT THERE, AND ALL THE PICTURES THAT WERE CONVENIENTLY SHOWED WERE BEFOREHAND, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S, UH, THEIR, THEIR POSITION. 
          WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THEN IS, IS, IS EXACTLY WHAT THE CITY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAVE REQUESTED. 
          IT'S AN OLD PROPERTY. 
          IT IS, AS WITH ALL OLD PROPERTIES, IT REQUIRES MAINTENANCE, AND IT'S HARD TO KEEP SOME FOLKS DOING RIGHT. 
          SO YES, PEOPLE SHOOT THINGS OUT. 
          UH, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE STATUTE SHOULD BE USED TO BASICALLY DECIDE THAT MY CLIENT ALLOWED THESE THINGS TO HAPPEN? THE STATUTE ALSO REQUIRES, IT'S A TWO PRONGER, TWO-PRONGED TEST. 
          YOU GOT TO HAVE AVAILABLE AT LEAST FIVE AVAILABLE, UH, EVENTS IN A YEAR. 
          AND ALSO THAT THE, UH, PROPERTY, UH, KNOWINGLY TOLERATED THOSE. 
          NOW, IT JUST DEPENDS UPON WHO YOU BELIEVE HERE, AND I UNDERSTAND ONE OR TWO OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS, AND I GUESS IT FACT FINDER IN THIS INSTANCE CERTAINLY ENTITLED TO DO SO. 
          BUT THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANYTHING OTHER THAN SUGGESTED INNUENDO THAT MY CLIENTS ARE LYING. 
          THEY HAVE TOLD YOU THEY DID NOT KNOW OF THESE PROCEEDINGS. 
          NOW, WE DID HEAR FROM OFFICER, UH, WHY MIGHT THAT HAVE HAPPENED? BECAUSE APPARENTLY THE OFFICER PRECEDING HIM WAS ON MILITARY, UM, SERVICE AND WHATNOT. 
          I GUESS IF HE WASN'T THERE, OBVIOUSLY NOBODY WAS PICKING UP THE BALL TO INFORM MY CLIENTS OF THIS. 
          BUT MY CLIENTS HAVE TOLD YOU THAT THEY WERE NOT INFORMED OF THESE, THEY WEREN'T INFORMED OF THESE 219 OTHER CHARGES THAT ARE THERE. 
          IS IT IS THAT THE CITY'S GONNA START MAKING EVERYBODY GO TO THE WEBSITE AND POLICE THEIR OWN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? CERTAINLY, THAT'S THE SUGGESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. 
          WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS UNDERFUNDED, UNDERHAND UNDERLOVED AND, AND NEEDS MORE HELP. 
          BUT IS THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS COMMISSION TO IGNORE WHAT HAS BEEN DONE? AS SOON AS MY FOLKS WERE INFORMED, IF THEY, YOU FIND THAT THEY WEREN'T ADEQUATELY INFORMED, WEREN'T INFORMED, THEY CAN'T HAVE DONE IT KNOWINGLY. 
          IF YOU'D FIND THAT THEY DIDN'T DO IT KNOWINGLY, THEN YOU CAN'T FIND AGAINST THEM. 
          IF YOU FIND THAT IT WAS BOTH A, A, UM, A DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY TO STOP DRUGS IN THE APARTMENTS, STOP PEOPLE HAVING GUNS IN THEIR APARTMENTS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, UH, AND THAT IT WAS KNOWINGLY ALLOWED, THEN YOUR ANSWER SHOULD BE TO GO WITH THE CITY. 
          IF YOU DON'T FIND BOTH OF THOSE, AND I SU SUBMIT TO YOU WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THAT YOUR DECISION SHOULD BE TO FIND THAT, UH, THE PRESUMPTION WAS NOT CORRECT, THAT THE, UH, CITY PLACED ON THIS, AND TO DENY THE, UH, TO, TO GRANT OUR APPEAL 
          [02:30:01]
AND TO DENY THE CITY'S, UH, HABITUAL CRIMINAL, UH, PROPERTY DESIGNATION. 
          THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME. 
          THANK YOU, MR. WOO. 
          UH, MR. RILEY, RECOGNIZE FOR FIVE MINUTES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. 
          UM, YOU'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE IMPLEMENTED SINCE THE ISSUANCE OF THE INITIAL NOTICE LETTER, BUT, UM, THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, NONE OF THAT IS RELEVANT. 
          AND MR. WILLIE STATED THAT YOU HAVE TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU PROFITS REFER AVAILABLE. 
          AND DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IS DEFINED IN THE ORDINANCE, AND IT MEANS THOSE ACTIVITIES LISTED IN CHAPTER 1 25 OF THE EXIT CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE AS A MEMBER. 
          SO THOSE ARE THE OFFENSES THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE LETTER, AND THEREFORE THEY ARE THAT, THAT IS BY, UH, THE FIRST PRO, THE SECOND PRONG. 
          AS FAR AS KNOWINGLY TOLERATED PER THE ORDINANCE, THE OWNERS ARE PRESUMED TO HAVE KNOWINGLY TOLERATED THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY BY FAILING TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS. 
          I THINK WE HAVE HEARD TODAY THAT NOW THEY'RE TAKING REASONABLE STEPS, BUT AT THE TIME OF THIS NOTICE LETTER, THEY WERE NOT TAKING REASONABLE STEPS. 
          THERE WERE BASICALLY NO REASONABLE CRIME PREVENTION MEASURES IMPLEMENTED ON THE PROPERTY IN ADDITION TO THE PROPERTIES AS BEING IN FULL CONDITIONS GENERALLY. 
          AND BECAUSE BOTH OF THE PRONGS OF THE PRESUMPTIONS ARE MET, THE HCP DESIGNATION SHOULD BE ACCURATE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, AT THIS POINT, UH, WE WILL MOVE ON TO MOTIONS AND DISCUSSIONS, AND, UM, UH, THERE WILL BE NO MORE QUESTIONING OF THE WITNESSES, BUT, UH, LET ME HEAR IF ANYONE HAS A MOTION FROM THE BOARD REGARDING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS TO O HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY FOR LAZY ACRES CIRCLE HOLD, UM, MOTION TO APPROVE THE, UM, POLICE DEPARTMENT'S, UM, DESIGNATION OF THIS PLACE BEING A HABITUALLY CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          WE HAVE, WE HAVE A MOTION BY MR. CIA TO AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE. 
          UH, IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND BY MR. QUINN? YES, SIR. 
          UH, AND WE'LL PROCEED WITH DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. 
          WE'LL GO DOWN THE LIST OF BOARD MEMBERS, BUT WE'LL PROCEED FOR AND AGAINST. 
          SO, UM, MR. CILLA, DO YOU WANNA SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR MOTION? SURE. 
          JUST BRIEFLY, UM, REASONS TO SUPPORT THIS OR AFFIRM THE DECISION BY THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT. 
          ONE IS WHAT APPEARS TO BE LACK OF INTEREST IN UNDERSTANDING BY THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY REGARDING EITHER VICTIMS OR ASSAILANT, OR WHO THEIR TENANTS ARE, WHICH TENANTS ARE, ARE, UH, UM, PERFORMING ANY KIND OF CRIME OR ARE INVOLVED IN ANY TYPE OF CRIME. 
          I DO AGREE WITH ACTUALLY THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT AND THE PROPERTY OWNER'S ATTORNEY, THAT THIS IS SIMPLE. 
          IT'S SIMPLE IN REGARD TO KNOWINGLY TOLERATE IT. 
          UM, IN REGARD TO THAT PREMISE, UH, THAT'S BEEN SET, UH, FOR THE, UM, THE DETERMINATION OF WHETHER TO, UH, TO DECLARE THIS AS AN HABITUALLY CRIMINAL PIECE OF PROPERTY, YOU HAVE A PROPERTY MANAGER AND AN INDIVIDUAL WHO TESTIFIED HERE TODAY OF HAVING 22 YEARS EXPERIENCE, I WOULD ASSUME BECAUSE HE WALKS IT EVERY TWO WEEKS AS HE STATED THAT HE CAN RELY ON HIS EXPERIENCE OF IDENTIFYING WHAT SEEMS TO BE SIMPLE AND EVIDENT, UM, VIOLATIONS OF JUST A POORLY KEPT PROPERTY. 
          AND IN REGARD TO THIS STATUTE AND IN REGARD TO THIS, THE CODE ITSELF AND WHAT THE CITIZENS OF DALLAS ARE, ARE, ARE, YOU KNOW, UH, ASSUMING IS WHEN THEY HAVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT THEY ARE EITHER LIVING ON BY AS A, AS A TENANT THAT'S PAYING, OR AS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO LIVES WITH THAT TENANT THAT'S PAYING, THAT THEY WILL BE IN SOME WAY IN A SAFE AREA. 
          I UNDERSTAND ALL THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED IN REGARDS TO THIS PARTICULAR AREA. 
          AND SO, MORE IMPORTANTLY, ANYONE WHO DECIDES TO OWN A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND THEN RENT IT OUT HAS THE DUTY IN ORDER TO LOOK AT WHERE THEY ARE AND WOULD'VE DONE THEIR DUE DILIGENCE OF WHERE THEY'RE BUYING THIS PROPERTY, AND THEN IDENTIFY, HOW DO I, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE AS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, HOW DO I HELP KEEP THESE INDIVIDUALS SAFE OR AT LEAST PROVIDE A, SOME KIND OF PROTOCOL OR STANDARD IN KEEPING THESE INDIVIDUALS SAFE? AND I THINK THAT THEY DID KNOWINGLY TOLERATE THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAT IS OCCURRING ON THEIR PROPERTY. 
          SO 
          [02:35:01]
WITHOUT GOING THROUGH ALL THE OTHER EXAMPLES THAT ALL OF US HAVE HEARD, THAT IS THE REASON WHY I'M ASKING AND, AND TO MOVE FORWARD AND TO AFFIRM THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S, UH, DECISION TO, TO DECLARE THIS AS A HABITUALLY CRIMINAL PROPERTY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MR. KUCHI. 
          IS THERE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION OR ON THE MOTION? IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? I WOULD, SIR. 
          UH, I RECOGNIZE MR. QUENT. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          UM, I, I TRULY FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT MANAGEMENT DID NOT KNOW THIS WAS ALL GOING ON ON THEIR PROPERTY. 
          AND IF WE'RE ABLE TO DIG BACK YEARS, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THIS IS AN ONGOING ISSUE FOR YEARS BACK, UM, THEY USED THE WORD, WE'VE USED THE WORD MINIMAL STEPS. 
          WELL, MINIMALIZING IN THE LEAST ACTION. 
          THE, THE, THE, THE LEAST AMOUNT OF EFFORT. 
          THE SOLE REASON THAT THESE STEPS WERE TAKEN IS BECAUSE THEY WERE CALLED ON THE CARPET BY THE CITY. 
          UM, HAD THEY NEVER HAVE GOTTEN A LETTER FROM THE CITY, THIS BEHAVIOR WOULD'VE CONTINUED WITHOUT, WITHOUT A, A DOUBT IN MY MIND. 
          UM, THEY SAID THAT MAINTENANCE HAS BEEN DONE, UPDATES HAVE BEEN DONE. 
          THE CITY PROVIDED PICTURES FOR US, BUT YET THE APPELLANT, THERE'S NO PICTURES FOR US TO SEE WHAT THEY'VE DONE. 
          SO I FIND THAT KIND OF HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THEY'VE BEEN DONE, BUT YET WE DON'T SEE ANY ACTIONS, UM, ON THEIR PART. 
          UM, UM, ONE LAST THOUGHT. 
          UM, MR. LEONARD ELOQUENTLY STATED THAT WE HAVE A SIMPLE YET COMPLEX JOB. 
          UM, HE SIMPLIFIED IT AGAIN, FOLLOWING BACK ON JUST SIMPLY THE ABATED, UH, CRIMES THAT COULD BE, UH, HAVE BEEN ABATED. 
          WELL, AGAIN, THERE IS A SLEW MORE, YOU KNOW, OVER 200 MORE THAT, THAT WERE CR THAT WERE DONE. 
          UM, AND THEN, UH, THE DE DETECTIVE STATED THAT ABOUT 50 50 THE OFFICERS COME IN, UM, TO TELL 'EM THEY WERE THERE, AND 50% THEY DON'T. 
          SO WITH THE 109 OFFENSES THAT THEY'VE NEVER HEARD OF, A, AGAIN, I THINK THAT MANAGEMENT WAS TURNING A BLIND EYE TO WHAT WAS GOING ON. 
          UM, MY, MY FINAL THOUGHT IS, WOULD THE MINIMAL ACTIONS THAT THEY'VE TAKEN, UM, I ASKED DETECTIVE, YOU KNOW, IN HIS OPINION AS A D P D OFFICER, WILL THIS STILL BECOME, WILL THIS STILL STAY A, UH, HABITUAL PROPERTY? AND HIS ANSWER WAS DEFINITIVELY YES. 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          THANK YOU, MR. QUINN. 
          UH, IS THERE ANYBODY AT THIS TIME WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION OR ON THE MOTION IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? OKAY. 
          UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION AND, UM, LET, LET ME, LET ME FIRST START OUT BY SAYING, I THINK THIS IS A VERY UNUSUAL CASE, AT LEAST SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD, UH, WHERE WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF APARTMENTS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THOSE ARE SEPARATE PROPERTIES SINCE THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UH, LEASED BY DIFFERENT TENANTS. 
          UM, SO, SO I DO THINK THIS IS AN UNUSUAL CASE, AND THERE IS SOME FORCE TO APPELLANT'S ARGUMENT THAT SOME OF THESE CRIMES ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT TAKE PLACE IN PRIVATE AND THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR OR COULD EVEN KNOW ABOUT, UH, AT THE TIME THAT THEY'RE OCCURRING. 
          BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THE DETECTIVE ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED THE QUESTION OF, UM, CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE LIKELY TO TAKE PLACE. 
          AND I THINK THIS ALSO GOES TO APPELLANT'S ARGUMENT THAT ABOUT ABATEMENT. 
          WE, WE ARE BOUND BY THE ORDINANCE AND THE STATE STATUTE'S DEFINITION OF WHAT IS AN ABATE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, WHETHER WE AGREE WITH IT OR NOT. 
          UM, IT IS NOT DEFINED AS CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES THAT CAN BE ABATED BY THE PROPERTY OWNER. 
          IT IS DEFINED AS A LIST OF CERTAIN OFFENSES. 
          SO WE ARE BOUND BY THAT. 
          UM, BUT IN MY OPINION, AND THE REASON WHY I'M IN, IN FAVOR OF UPHOLDING THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S DECISION IS BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE IS TO INDEED DETER PROPERTY OWNERS FROM ALLOWING THEIR PROPERTY TO BECOME THE KIND OF PLACE WHERE THESE CRIMES ARE LIKELY TO BE COMMITTED. 
          NOT TO PREVENT ANY PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL OFFENSE, BUT TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE OFFENSES ARE LESS LIKELY TO OCCUR. 
          AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT, RIGHT? YOU ONLY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW 
          [02:40:01]
THAT YOU PREVENTED A PARTICULAR CRIME OR THAT YOU COULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED A PARTICULAR CRIME, ONLY THAT YOU ARE TAKING REASONABLE STEPS IN ORDER TO PREVENT A CERTAIN CATEGORY OF CRIMES. 
          AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT, UH, IT WAS DOING THIS PRIOR TO THE ACCORD MEETINGS, WHICH I, I DO BELIEVE IS WHAT THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES. 
          AND THEREFORE, UH, I AM IN FAVOR OF UPHOLDING THE CHIEF FOR POLICE DECISION. 
          THE PROPERTY OWNER MAY BE DOING THE NECESSARY THINGS. 
          NOW, I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, FOR THE FUTURE, I DON'T THINK SIMPLY JUST CHECKING THE BOXES AND DOING THE THINGS THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS ASKING YOU TO DO, IN MY OPINION, IS SUFFICIENT. 
          IF YOU WIND UP BACK HERE AGAIN, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. 
          UM, I, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT FIRST STEP. 
          BUT THE, THE, THE, THE PICTURE THAT THE IMPRESSION THAT I HAD AFTER HEARING THE APPELLANT'S PRESENTATION WAS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE IMPRESSION THAT I GOT AFTER, UH, GOING THROUGH THE PICTURES THAT THE DETECTIVE HAD TAKEN. 
          SO, UH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS DISAPPOINTING TO ME TO SEE THAT. 
          UM, I, I THINK IF YOU HAVE THINGS LIKE LIGHTS THAT ARE BEING SHOT OUT BY YOUR RESIDENCE, IF IT WERE ME, I WOULD WANT TO FIND OUT WHO WAS DOING THE SHOOTING AND WHY THEY WERE DOING THE SHOOTING, AND I'D GET RID OF THEM AND I'D FIX THE LIGHTS IMMEDIATELY, BECAUSE IF PEOPLE ARE SHOOTING OUT LIGHTS, THEY'RE DOING IT FOR A REASON. 
          AND I'D WANT TO NOT ONLY SOLVE THE SHOOTING OUT OF THE LIGHTS, BUT THE REASON WHY THEY'RE SHOOTING OUT THE LIGHTS. 
          SO, UH, I AM DEFINITELY IN FAVOR OF AFFIRMING THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S DECISION IN THIS CASE. 
          IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION AT THIS POINT? ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, UH, THEN WE WILL VOTE. 
          UM, I WOULD, I THINK EVERYBODY'S CAMERA IS TURNED ON, BUT IF YOUR CAMERA IS NOT TURNED ON, PLEASE DO SO AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE OFF MUTE. 
          UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO AFFIRM THE CHIEF OF POLICE DECISION DESIGNATING LAZY ACRE CIRCLE, HOLDING PROPERTY AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY, PLEASE SAY, AYE. 
          AYE. 
          AYE, AYE, AYE. 
          ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY. 
          MOTION PASSES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE. 
          UH, THAT CONCLUDES TODAY'S HEARING. 
          THE TIME IS NOW 11:26 AM AND, UH, ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS, PLEASE REMEMBER THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT PRESENT IN PERSON. 
          PLEASE MONITOR YOUR EMAIL FOR THE DOCUSIGN SO THAT WE CAN GET THAT, UH, FINISHED EXPEDITIOUSLY. 
          HAVE A GREAT REST OF YOUR DAY. 
          THANK YOU, CHAIR. 
          THANK YOU CHAIR. 
          HAVE A GOOD DAY. 
          THANK YOU, CHAIR. 
          TAKE CARE.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.