[City Planning Commission]
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ARE WE RECORDING? UHOH? I GOT A MICROPHONE HERE.
YOU NEED TO START US OFF WITH A ROLL CALL.
IT'S YOUR MICROPHONES ON, ON THE LAPTOP, MAYBE SPEAKER OR SOMETHING.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. PASINA.
GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
TODAY IS THURSDAY, JUNE 1ST, 2023, UH, 12:34 PM WELCOME TO THE DALLAS CITY PLAN COMMISSION.
JUST A QUICK COUPLE OF QUICK ITEMS BEFORE WE GET STARTED.
OUR SPEAKER GUIDELINES, ALL SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE THREE MINUTES.
UH, IN CASES WHERE WE DO HAVE OPPOSITION PER OUR RULES, THE APPLICANT WILL RECEIVE A TWO MINUTE REBUTTAL.
UH, MS. MS. PASINA WILL KEEP TIME, SO YOU MIGHT HEAR AN ALARM THERE.
WHEN YOU DO SO, PLEASE, UH, CONCLUDE YOUR COMMENTS.
ALSO, WE DO HAVE, UH, FOUR OR FIVE SPEAKERS ONLINE.
I WILL ASK ALL OUR SPEAKERS ONLINE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE YOUR CAMERA ON.
UH, STATE LAW REQUIRES THAT WE SEE YOU IN ORDER TO HEAR FROM YOU AND TO ALL SPEAKERS.
PLEASE BEGIN YOUR COMMENTS WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
AND WITH THAT, WE'RE GONNA GET RIGHT INTO THE DOCKET.
AND, UH, WITH THE MINUTES, THE MAY 18TH MINUTES.
MR. JONES, MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR.
THE DRAFT MINUTES ARE NEATLY TYPED AND ALL THE WORDS ARE SPELLED CORRECTLY.
UM, WHETHER THEY REFLECT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT I TRUST MS. PA AND SO I MOVE APPROVAL.
THANK, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER YOUNG FOR YOUR MOTION.
AND, UH, COMMISSIONER BLAIR FOR YOUR SECOND FOR THE MAY 18TH MINUTES.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
UH, WE'LL GO TO OUR ZONING CASES.
UH, THERE IS NO CONSENT AGENDA.
SO WE'LL BEGIN WITH CASE NUMBER ONE, MR. MOKEY.
AN APPLICATION FOR ONE, A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE SALE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE GENERAL MERCHANDISE OR FOOD STORE GREATER THAN 3,500 SQUARE FEET.
AND TWO, A D ONE LIQUOR CONTROL OVERLAY ON PROPERTY ZONED A C R D COMMUNITY RETAIL DISTRICT WITH A D LIQUOR CONTROL OVERLAY AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF SOUTHAMPTON ROAD AND BURLINGTON BOULEVARD.
STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL OF A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE SALE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES IN CONJUNCTION WITH A GENERAL MERCHANDISE FOR FOOD STORE GREATER THAN 3,500 SQUARE FEET FOR A THREE YEAR PERIOD, SUBJECT TO A SITE PLAN AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS AND APPROVAL OF A D ONE LIQUOR CONTROL OVERLAY.
UH, IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD ON THIS ITEM? NO.
SPEAKERS ONLINE COMMISSIONERS.
QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE.
COMMISSIONER POPP, DO YOU HAVE A MOTION DO IN THE MATTER OF Z 212 2 90? I REQUEST THAT WE HOLD THE MATTER INTO THE JUNE 15TH MEETING.
UM, WE DO HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING SCHEDULED.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER POMPKIN FOR YOUR MOTION.
COMMISSIONER RUBIN FOR YOUR SECOND TO HOLD PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AND, UH, HOLD THE MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT TO JUNE 15TH.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
HAVE IT NUMBER TWO, MS. MUNOS.
NUMBER TWO IS AN APPLICATION AN M U EXCUSE DISTRICT.
CAN YOU TRY IT AGAIN? CAN YOU HEAR ME BETTER NOW? WE CAN VERY FAINTLY IN THIS ROOM, BUT I THINK IT JUST MAY BE THE SPEAKERS ACTUALLY.
AN APPLICATION FOR AN M MU ONE MIXED USE DISTRICT ON PROPERTY ZONE AND MF ONE, A MULTIFAMILY DISTRICT LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF WEST ILLINOIS AVENUE BETWEEN SOUTHWEST MORELAND ROAD AND SOUTHAMPTON ROAD.
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. MUNOS.WE DO HAVE TWO REGISTERED SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM.
MR. CELINE KOK? NOT ON MY ONLINE.
MR. CO HAS YOUR CAMERA ON, SIR.
WE ARE READY FOR YOUR COMMENT, SIR.
UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I CAN, UH, GLADLY ANSWER IT.
I HAVE MS, UH, MR. HOBBS WITH ME TOO, IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PROJECT.
THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE, BE HEARD ON THIS ITEM? COMMISSIONERS QUESTIONS FOR, UH, OUR TWO SPEAKERS, MR. KOHA AND MR. HOBBS.
QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? COMMISSIONER HOPKINS.
I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR THE SPEAKERS, PLEASE.
UH, MR. KOHA, I KNOW WE'VE BEEN EMAILING RECENTLY ABOUT THE PROJECT AND IT APPEARS, UM, FROM YOUR, UH, DRAFT SITE PLAN THAT THE INTENT IS TO PUT SOME MULTI-FAMILY ON THE EDGE OF THIS PROPERTY AND ALSO POTENTIALLY EXPAND THE EXISTING BUSINESS ON THE SITE.
UM, AND I I WAS WONDERING IF YOU MIGHT GIVE SOME CLARIFICATION, AND I'LL BE FOLLOWING UP WITH A QUESTION FOR STAFF AS WELL, BUT IT APPEARS THAT THE PARKING FOR THE APARTMENTS MAY NEED TO BE ON THE SITE ALONGSIDE WITH THE PARKING FOR THE RETAIL.
WOULD THAT NEED TO BE A SHARED PARKING SITUATION TO BE ABLE TO FIT THESE APARTMENTS IN THAT SMALL SPACE WITH THE SETBACKS REQUIRED? SO I WOULD LIKE MR. HOPS TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
UM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE, UH, PARKING CALCULATIONS THAT WE DID, UH, HAS THE, UH, PROPER NUMBER FOR EACH OF THE, THE USES.
SO IT WAS KIND OF A BALANCE BETWEEN RETAIL AND APARTMENTS.
UH, THEY WOULD BE SHARING A COMMON DRIVEWAY THOUGH.
THAT OFFERS SOME GREAT CLARITY.
I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS BEING HERE.
THAT CONCLUDES MY QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIR.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER YOUNG.
UH, FOR EITHER OF OUR, UH, SPEAKERS, I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THIS PROJECT, BUT I'M HEARING SOME THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT.
WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSED USE OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY BUILDING, UH, ACCURATELY? I'M, I'M SORRY, SIR.
WE'RE ACTUALLY EXPANDING THE EXISTING RETAIL FACILITY, UM, AND THEN ADDING, UH, MULTI-FAMILY UNITS TO THE, UH, THE PROPERTY ALSO.
THE EXISTING RETAIL FACILITY IS OWNED COMMUNITY RETAIL, IS THAT CORRECT? I BELIEVE THAT IS CORRECT, YES.
AND THAT DOES NOT ALLOW MULTI-FAMILY, UH, THAT WAS THE REASON THAT WE WERE REQUESTING, UH, THE ZONING CHANGE THAT, WELL, PROPERTY, UH, THE PROPERTY AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WILL BE RE PLATTED IN ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY.
THE PROPERTY YOU'RE SEEKING A ZONING CHANGE ON IS 49 FEET WIDE.
WE HEARD IT THIS MORNING'S BRIEFING THAT THERE'LL HAVE TO BE A 20 FOOT RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY, BRO, UH, BUFFER THAT LEAVES YOU A 29 FOOT STRIP WIDE FOOT WIDE STRIP IN WHICH TO BUILD APARTMENTS.
WHERE WHERE WILL THE APARTMENTS BE ON YOUR PROPERTY? OUR OUR INTENT IS THAT, UM, THAT 49 FEET OR, OR 50 FEET, WHICHEVER IT IS, UH, AS IT'S INCORPORATED INTO THE ADJACENT PIECE OF PROPERTY BY REPLAT, UH, WILL GIVE US THE ABILITY TO ADD THE APARTMENTS, THE, THE ADJACENT RETAIL PROPERTY TO THE WEST OR THE ADJACENT MULTI-FAMILY PROPERTY TO THE EAST? NO, THE, THE, WE, WE HAVE, UH, THE SETBACKS THAT ARE REQUIRED BETWEEN THE, UH, APARTMENTS OR THE, UH, MULTI-FAMILY ON THE EAST AND OUR PROPERTY OR OUR PROPERTY LINE IN OUR BUILDING, I SHOULD SAY.
UM, IT'S NOT OUR INTENT RIGHT NOW, AND THIS IS VERY PRELIMINARY, BUT IT'S NOT OUR INTENT TO TRY TO KEEP OUR DEVELOPMENT ON THAT TRACK OF LAND THAT'S BEING REZONED.
SO DO I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE INTENDING TO BUILD RESIDENTIAL THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRETY OF YOUR PROPERTY IF THE REZONING IS GRANTED?
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UH, NO, SIR.THE, UH, THE PLAN, AND AGAIN, THIS IS A EARLY CONCEPT PLAN, IS THAT, UH, THERE'D BE AN EXPANSION OF THE RETAIL ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY IS WHERE THE MULTIFAMILY WOULD GO WITH, UH, COMMON DRIVEWAY FIRE LANES ARGUMENT, SEPARATING A STRAW.
BUT, BUT IS THE MULTI-FAMILY GOING TO BE COMBINED TO THE EASTERNMOST 49 FEET? IT WILL, UH, IT WILL CONSUME, UH, WHAT IS NOT IN THE SETBACK.
IT WILL CONSUME THE REST OF THAT PROPERTY.
BUT IT WILL, UH, IT CAN EXTEND OVER INTO THE, THE PROPERTY THAT, UH, IS CURRENTLY THERE.
WELL, I'LL ASK HALF ABOUT THAT, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BUILD MULTI-FAMILY ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS CURRENTLY ZONED COMMUNITY RETAIL, EVEN IF YOU REPLANT THIS TRACT INTO IT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS FOR OUR TWO SPEAKERS? YES.
I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
UM, DO MR. KOHA, DO YOU HAVE THE PRELIMINARY, UM, DRAWING THAT YOU EMAILED TO ME LAST NIGHT? YES, I DO.
IF YOU COULD SHOW THAT BRIEFLY, THAT MAY HELP CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOUR PRELIMINARY INTENT IS.
ARE YOU ABLE TO SHARE YOUR SCREEN BY CHANCE? YES.
UH, I'M TRYING TO SEE HOW DO I SHARE THIS? I HAVE IT ON PLACE.
CAN I JUST, I HAVE IT OPEN HERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SHARE THIS THING HERE.
IS IT ABLE TO HELP? SO IT'S OPEN RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY SCREEN, BUT HOW DO I SHARE HELP AND GIMME A MINUTE TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO CAN HELP.
HOPEFULLY THERE'S A BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM NEAR THE MUTE VIDEO, AND THERE SHOULD BE A SHARE BUTTON RIGHT NEXT TO IT.
THIS IS THE, THIS THE PROGRAM RIGHT HERE? YEAH.
YOLANDA, I JUST SENT IT TO YOU AS WELL, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO SEND IT OUT TO FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
SHOULD WE SHOW SCREEN OKAY? YES, WE SEE IT NOW.
AND IF YOU WOULD JUST BRIEFLY WALK US THROUGH THE PART OF THE SITE THAT, UM, YOU'RE REQUESTING THE ZONING CHANGE ON AND THE PART OF THE SITE WHERE THE EXISTING RETAIL IS.
THE, UH, THE RETAIL, EXISTING RETAIL THAT'S NOTED THERE AND THE, UH, NEW RETAIL, YOU CAN SEE THE EXPANSION THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE.
IF YOU GO TO THE FAR RIGHT HAND SIDE, THE EAST SIDE OF THAT, UH, THERE'S THE SETBACK, UH, BUFFER AREA IS REQUIRED.
THE DARK AREA IS THE POST MULTI-FAMILY.
SO THE ZONING, UH, THE, UH, THE LAST TRACK OF LAND OR THE LAST PIECE OF PROPERTY THERE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE NEEDING TO, TO CHANGE IS THE 49 FEET OVER.
SO IT, IT'S JUST INSIDE THE, UH, I GUESS YOU'D SAY THE RIGHT OR THE, THE WESTERN EDGE OF THAT MIXED USE BUILDING THE MULTIFAMILY.
SO IN THIS, UM, PROPOSED REZONING, DOES THAT SITE END, I SEE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DOCUMENT ON ALONG ILLINOIS, THERE'S A VERTICAL LINE.
IS THAT AN INDICATION OF WHERE THIS CURRENT PROPERTY ENDS? NOW? THAT'S ACTUALLY, UH, A LINE FOR THE SIDEWALK.
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PROPERTY IN QUESTION? THE EDGE OF THE, CAN YOU SEE THE ARROW? YES.THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY IS LIKE RIGHT ALONG HERE.
IT'S STRAIGHT UP ALL THE WAY TO THE, TO THE BACK, UH, PROPERTY LINE.
AND SO THE, THE PROPERTY AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW IS MF ONE, WHICH WOULD ALLOW YOU TO BUILD TWO-STORY MULTI-FAMILY ON THIS PARCEL ALREADY.
WHY THE REQUEST TO CHANGE IT TO MU INSTEAD? WELL, UM, WE HAD A CONSULTANT MASTER PLAN, UH, WHEN WE STARTED THE PROJECT, AND WE PRESENTED SEVERAL DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES TO THEM IN TERMS OF ZONING.
THIS STARTED OUT AS AN EXPANSION, EVEN MORE OF AN EXPANSION OF RETAIL, AND THE RETAIL WAS GOING TO BE EXPANDED MORE INTO THIS AREA, AND THE PARKING WAS GOING TO BE OVER HERE, WHICH INITIATED THE ORIGINAL REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL OR CHANGE IN ZING AS WE WORKED WITH MASTER PLAN.
UH, AND, AND ACTUALLY JUST SLIGHTLY BEFORE THAT, UH, CELINE RECOGNIZED A NEED FOR HOUSING IN THIS AREA AND, AND, UH, ASKED IF WE COULD DEVELOP, UH, A MASTER PLAN HERE, UH, AN ARCHITECTURAL MASTER PLAN THAT, UH, INCLUDED MULTI-FAMILY AND THEN LESS EXPANSION OF THE RETAIL SMALLER EXPANSION.
SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE.
WHEN WE THEN, UH, UH, BROUGHT IN MASTER PLAN COMPANY TO HELP, UH, KIND OF ADVISE US ON THIS, THEY DID A FEASIBILITY STUDY, UH, IN TERMS OF, OF WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST, UH, REQUEST AND EASIEST TO ALLOW TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE WANTED.
AND, AND SO THEY WERE THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY CAME BACK AND SAID, MU ONE ZONING.
I, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, BUT THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT.
AND IT APPEARS THAT WITH THIS PLAN, UM, CHANGING THE MF ONE TO MIXED USE, UM, WOULD INDEED ALLOW YOU TO BUILD MULTI-FAMILY, BUT YOUR PARKING WOULD NEED TO BE ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY FOR THAT MULTI-FAMILY, AND THE ADJACENT PROPERTY IS ZONED CR.
AND SO YOU MENTIONED THE POTENTIAL TO REZONE YOUR CR TO MU ALSO AND REPLAT THE PROPERTIES TOGETHER.
IS THAT THE INTENT AT THIS POINT? THAT WAS THE INTENT, YES, MA'AM.
I THINK IF YOU, AND I'LL GET SOME CLARITY FROM STEPH, BUT I THINK TO ACCOMPLISH YOUR GOAL, YOU MAY NEED TO REPLAT, UM, AND ENABLE TO ALLOW YOUR MULTI-FAMILY PARKING TO BE SITUATED ON THIS ADJACENT LOT.
UM, BUT KNOWING WHAT YOUR PLANS ARE, THAT OFFERS SOME CLARITY TO THIS PROCESS.
SO WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT NEXT STEPS FORWARD.
UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS THE RIGHT STEP JUST YET, BUT THANK YOU FOR, UM, BEING HERE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO US.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER YOUNG.
UH, I WANT TO BE SURE I UNDERSTAND, UH, THE MULTI-FAMILY THAT YOU'RE SHOWING ON YOUR SCREEN.
MY QUESTION IS, WILL THAT ENTIRELY BE WITHIN THE AREA THAT'S UP FOR REZONING OR WILL IT EXTEND INTO THE RETAIL TRACK TO THE WEST? IT WILL EXTEND AREA SO SLIGHTLY INTO THE RETAIL, IN RETAIL, UH, TRACK.
WELL, UH, I, I THINK THAT PLAN WOULD NOT BE VIABLE WITHOUT A REZONING OF ALL OUR PART OF THE TRACK TO THE WEST, BUT WE'LL TAKE THAT UP WITH STAFF.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS FOR THE APPLICANT? QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONER YOUNG? UH, YES.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, CAN HAVE YOU SEEN THIS, UH, DIAGRAM BEFORE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN? NO, THIS IS A GENERAL ZONE CHANGE AND NO SITE PLANS ARE CONSIDERED WITH GENERAL ZONE CHANGES.
THIS IS THE FIRST IMPAIRING OF ANY MULTI-FAMILY UNITS BEING DEVELOPED ON THE PROPERTY.
BUT YOU, SO YOU'VE NOT SEEN THIS BEFORE? NO.
THEN I WON'T ASK YOU TO COMMENT ON IT.
UM, IF IN FACT, THE PROPOSED MULTI-FAMILY ENCROACHES ONTO THE CR TRACT ON THE WEST, THAT WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE ONLY IF ALL ARE PART OF THAT TRACK.
WERE REZONED TO A DISTRICT THAT ALLOWS MULTI-FAMILY, IS THAT CORRECT?
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WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT PLEASE, COMMISSIONER? HONOR, IF IN FACT, THE PROPOSED MULTI-FAMILY ENCROACHES ON THE CR TRACK TO THE WEST, THAT WOULD NOT BE PERMISSIBLE UNLESS AND UNTIL ALL OR PART OF THE CR TRACT WAS REZONED TO A DISTRICT THAT ALLOWED MULTI-FAMILY.AND THEY'LL ALSO HAVE, THEY'LL HAVE TO REZONE BEFORE THEY COULD REPLAT IF THEY'RE CREATING THIS AS ONE BLOT.
UH, I'M, I'M SORRY, I I DIDN'T HEAR ALL THAT.
THE, THE MULTI-FAMILY USE WOULD HAVE TO BE PERMITTED ON THE ENTIRE BUILD SITE.
SO IF THEY'RE CREATING ONE BUILD SITE, THAT MULTI-FAMILY USE NEEDS TO BE ALLOWED.
SO THE CR DISTRICT TO THE WEST, AS YOU'RE DEVELOPING IT AS ONE SITE, YOU NEED TO REZONE THE ENTIRE THING AND YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE TO REPLAT THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT SITE.
AND AM I RIGHT THAT THE PARKING FOR THE MULTI FAMILY, WOULD THAT BE PERMISSIBLE, A, ASSUMING THAT THIS WERE ALL PLATTED INTO ONE TRACT, WOULD THE PARKING, THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR THE MULTI-FAMILY BE ALLOWED TO OCCUR ON PROPERTY ZONE? CR YOU'RE ASKING IF THE PARKING CAN BE IN THE CR DISTRICT FOR THE MULTI-FAMILY USE, CORRECT.
CAN, CAN PARKING FOR THE MULTI-FAMILY USE BE ON A PORTION OF THE LOT ZONE CR? AS LONG AS THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH ANY SPECIAL PARKING REGULATIONS, THEN THAT WOULD BE FINE.
RIGHT NOW, IN ORDER TO ASSESS THIS SITE WITH THIS NEW PLAN THAT I'M SEEING AND THE INTENT TO HAVE THESE TWO USES IN THIS SPLIT ZONING, I'D HAVE TO GO AND ASSESS IT AND LOOK AT OUR SPECIAL PARKING REGULATIONS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONER POPKIN? I CAN'T SEE YOU ON MY SCREEN IN CASE YOU, YOU NEED TO JUST PLEASE, UH, SPEAK UP.
UM, MS. MUNEZ, SO JUST FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, UM, IF THE CURRENT PROPERTY WERE TO STAY MULTI-FAMILY MF ONE, AS IT EXISTS NOW AND THE PROPERTY WERE RE PLATTED TO JOIN THE CR AND THE MULTI-FAMILY, WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH, UM, A I, I GUESS SIMILAR LAYOUT WITH A SHARED, YOU KNOW, SPECIAL PARKING AGREEMENT? I WOULD'VE TO LOOK INTO THAT IF THEY, YOU'RE ASKING IF THEY RE THEY REZONED THE WHOLE THING, THE CR DISTRICT TWO, IF THEY COULD SHARE PARKING? UH, NO.
IF SIMPLY THE TWO LOTS WERE REPOTTED INTO ONE WHERE MULTI-FAMILY WERE ALLOWED ON THIS SMALL STRIP AND CR WERE STILL ALLOWED NEXT TO IT, WOULD A SPECIAL PARKING AGREEMENT ALLOW THE PARKING FOR THE MULTI-FAMILY TO EXIST ON THE CR SITE AS ONE, AS ONE SITE REPOTTED TOGETHER? YOU'RE, YOU'RE ASKING THE DIRECT QUESTION OF WHAT I SAID I WOULD HAVE TO RESEARCH.
BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST I'M SEEING THIS SITE AND THIS SPLIT AND CONSIDERING IT AS TWO DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICTS.
SO YEAH, BASICALLY THIS ZONING IS NOT NEEDED AT ALL THEN BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE SHOWING HERE IS A MULTI-FAMILY DISTRICT, UNLESS FOR SOME REASON THEY'RE NOT MEETING THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS OF THE MF ONE AND THE MU ONE DISTRICT IS MEETING THEIR MULTI-FAMILY NEEDS, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'D BE REZONING THIS THIN SCRIPT TO ALLOW MULTI-FAMILY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.
SO I, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT MR. KOJEY, THAT WE STEP BACK AND, AND LOOK MORE CLOSELY AT WHAT IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH BEFORE YOU PROCEED WITH THIS.
IT SEEMS LIKE THERE MAY BE AN EASIER ROUTE FORWARD AND WE MAY SIMPLY FIND THAT EASIER ROUTE IF WE CAN POSTPONE AND CONTINUE MORE CONVERSATIONS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONERS SEEING NON-COM? COMMISSIONER POPKIN, DO YOU HAVE A MOTION? YES.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO HOLD, UM, IN THE MATTER OF Z 2 23 DASH ONE 19 TO HOLD THE MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT TO THE, UM, JUNE 15TH MEETING.
MS. MUNEZ, WOULD THAT GIVE US ENOUGH TIME TO SORT THIS OUT, DO YOU THINK? SHOULD WE PUSH IT TOMORROW? NO, IT WOULD REQUIRE A REUNIFICATION AND EXPANSION OF THE AREA OF REQUEST.
AND SO, NO, BECAUSE NOTICES ARE GOING UP TOMORROW, WE
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NEED TWO WEEKS IN ORDER TO REVIEW ANY MATERIALS THAT ARE RESUBMITTED AND SEND THEM TO GIS FOR THE CREATION OF NEW MAPS AND A NEW NOTIFICATION AREA.SO AT MINIMUM IT WOULD BE FOUR WEEKS AT MINIMUM.
SO JULY 6TH NO GUARANTEE WOULD BE JULY 20TH, EITHER ONE.
UM, LET'S MOVE IT TO JULY 6TH.
COMMISSIONER YOUNG, UH, QUESTION FOR STAFF.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS MS. MUNOS OR MISS, MISS, DR.
NOBODY YET, UH, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE APPLICANT IS NOT YET READY TO DEFINITELY PROPOSE THE REZONING OF THE RETAIL TRACT.
SHOULD WE INCLUDE IN THE MOTION INSTRUCTION TO STAFF TO RE ADVERTISE BOTH TRACTS FOR REZONING CONDITIONAL ON THE APPLICANT, SO REQUESTING THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.
I'M STANDING BY AND MR. CHAIR, MY CONCERN IS IF WE PUT IT OFF TILL JULY 6TH AND DON'T INSTRUCT THE STAFF TO RE-NOTICE, THEN WE'RE FACING ANOTHER POSTPONEMENT AT THAT POINT.
COMMISSIONER YOUNG, WE CAN RE ADVERTISE FOR BOTH WITH, IF THE MOTION CAN BE DIRECTED SO THAT STAFF RE ADVERTISES FOR BOTH OF THE CHARGES.
WELL, BUT WE CAN'T ORDER THE APPLICANT TO APPLY FOR ZONING ON PROPERTY HE HASN'T APPLIED ON, RIGHT? YEAH.
IF, IF THE APPLICANT WANTS TO DO THAT, THE MOTION CAN BE MADE SO THAT, UM, THE ADVERTISEMENT WOULD ENCOMPASS BOTH OF THE TRACKS.
WELL THEN MY OFFER OF A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO COMMISSIONER POP'S MOTION WOULD BE TO INSTRUCT STAFF IN THE EVENT THAT THE APPLICANT SO REQUESTS TO ADVERTISE BOTH TRACKS FOR ZONING, UH, AT THE JULY 6TH HEARING.
YES, I AGREE TO THAT FRIENDLY AMENDMENT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE APPLICANT MAY ALSO DECIDE TO PULL THEIR REQUEST IF, UH, THE EXISTING ZONING MEETS THEIR NEEDS AND A SIMPLE REPLY COULD, COULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
WELL, BUT I THINK THIS GIVES US ALL OPTIONS.
HE HENCE MY LIMITING IT TO IF THE APPLICANT SO REQUEST, IF THE APPLICANT CHOOSES NOT TO REQUEST THAT, THEN FINE.
MR. KOHA, ARE YOU REQUESTING THAT, SIR? YES, I AGREE.
SAY AGAIN? I SAY WE AGREE ON THAT.
CAN I HAVE A SECOND FOR THAT? COMMISSIONER BLAIR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND, UM, COMMISSIONERS.
WE HAVE A MOTION, MY COMMISSIONER POPKIN.
SECOND, MY COMMISSIONER BLAIR TO HOLD THE MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT JULY 6TH, INCLUDING THE, UH, FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, UH, BY COMMISSIONER YOUNG TO RE ADVERTISE AS STATED ON THE RECORD.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
GO TO CASE NUMBER THREE, MS. MUNOS.
CASE NUMBER THREE IS Z 2 2 3 39.
AN APPLICATION FOR A NEW TRACK ON PROPERTY ZONE TRACK FOUR WITH IMPLANTED DISTRICT NUMBER 4 29 ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF FOREST LANE, EAST OF WEB CHAPEL ROAD.
RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL SUBJECT TO A REVISED CONCEPTUAL PLAN, A DEVELOPMENT PLAN, A LANDSCAPE PLAN, AND CONDITIONS AS BRIEFED TODAY.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. MUNOS.
IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO BE HEARD ON THIS ITEM? GOOD AFTERNOON.
YOU PLEASE BEGIN YOUR COMMENTS WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, SIR.
GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
MY NAME IS MIKE SCARBOROUGH WITH THREE K ONE CONSULTING, 11 18 11 COMMISSION.
HAMPTON, CAN YOU HEAR THE SPEAKER? NO.
THE, THE MICROPHONE MAY NOT BE ON.
[00:30:01]
THINK IT WAS ON, IT WAS JUST VERY FAINT.CAN YOU MA GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIR, MEMBERS OF COMMISSION.
UH, MY NAME IS MIKE SCARBOROUGH WITH THREE K ONE CONSULTING, UH, 11 18, 1 11 NORTH TAUM BOULEVARD, UH, PHOENIX, ARIZONA, UH, HERE TO DISCUSS THE QUICK AND CLEAN PROJECT.
UM, I BELIEVE I SENT A QUICK PRESENTATION TO, UM, OUR PLANNER.
IS THAT AVAILABLE? WOULD YOU LIKE FOR US TO SHARE IT FOR YOU? IF YOU COULD, THAT'D BE GREAT.
I'M PULLING IT UP RIGHT NOW WHILE SHE'S PULLING THAT UP.
I'LL ALSO, UH, INTRODUCED, UH, OR HAVE THE OWNER, UH, ON AN OPERATOR INTRODUCE HIMSELF AS WELL.
MY NAME IS RICHARD CARL, AND I AM A RESIDENT OF DALLAS, RESIDING AT 15 EDGE HILL, DALLAS, 75,248.
AND I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE AND ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT, UH, THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR ME.
UH, WE'RE VERY OPEN AND, AND HONEST IN WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO AND HOW WE'RE GONNA DO IT.
WE HAVE BEEN OPERATING AND, AND OWNING CAR WASHES FOR THE LAST 21 YEARS.
AND, UH, WE, UH, HAVE DONE AND ACTUALLY OWNED AND OPERATED OVER 90 LOCATIONS.
SO, UH, WE LISTEN TO OUR CUSTOMERS, WE DELIVER A PRODUCT BASED UPON WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE, AND WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO DO THAT AGAIN IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
AND I WILL TURN THIS BACK OVER TO MR. SCARBOROUGH.
SO WE'RE ON STANDBY FOR THE PRESENTATION WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE PRESENTATION, JUST LETTING YOU GUYS KNOW TO PLEASE FILL OUT ONE OF THESE YELLOW, WE'RE AT YELLOW CARDS THAT ARE ON THAT LITTLE BOX TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A RECORD OF YOUR VISIT.
SIR, ARE YOU TRYING TO PULL THAT UP? OKAY, THANKS.
UH, I'VE NOT DONE THIS FROM YOUR PU UH, PULPIT BEFORE.
DO I GET TO MOVE IT FORWARD AND BACKWARDS OR WILL, UH, WILL MS. MUNOS HELP ME? I THINK YOU JUST SAY NEXT SLIDE.
MEMBERS OF COMMISSION, UH, WE ARE HERE TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, CLOSED GOLDEN CORRAL CARWASH AT 33 12 FOREST LANE.
UH, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH STAFF FOR A, UH, CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME GOING THROUGH SOME ELEMENTS AND ISSUES THAT THEY WANTED US TO ADDRESS LARGE, LARGELY THAT WAS CONSISTED OF, UH, ON-SITE CIRCULATION, UH, PARKING, AND, UM, A BASIC GENERAL LAYOUT OF THE PROJECT.
UH, WE WORKED WITH STAFF SUCCESSFULLY TO GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY WERE COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROJECT FROM A TECHNICAL STANDPOINT, AND, UH, MOVED FORWARD TO HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH YOU FOLKS.
IN DOING THAT, WE, UH, WERE ABLE TO TOUCH BASE WITH COMMISSIONER STANDARD, UH, TALK WITH HER A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROJECT.
AND HER RECOMMENDATION, UH, WAS TO GO BE ABOVE AND BEYOND THE NORMAL NOTIFICATION AND, UH, ACTUALLY HOST A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING.
UH, WE DID THAT, UH, THE NORMAL NOTIFICATION WOULD'VE CONSISTED OF 62, UH, MEMBERS WOULD'VE RECEIVED MAIL BASED ON THE NOTIFICATION RING.
COMMISSIONER STANDARD ASKED US TO EXTEND BEYOND THAT, I THINK WE ACTUALLY EXTENDED BEYOND WHAT SHE REQUESTED AND ACTUALLY HAND DELIVERED, UH, NOTIFICATION TO 500 HOMES.
THE MAP ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE SLIDE KIND OF GIVES YOU AN AREA IDEA OF THE AREA THAT WE, UH, WE NOTICED.
UH, THE SITE PLAN'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE ON THIS ONE, SO WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
IT'S COLORED LANDSCAPE PLAN WILL MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT SIMPLER TO SEE, UH, DURING THAT DISCUSSION WITH THE NEIGHBORS, WE TALKED ABOUT THE LAYOUT, THE ONSITE CIRCULATION,
[00:35:01]
THE HOURS OF OPERATION, UM, AND, UM, SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT COME FROM THE PROJECT.IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS, WE AGREED TO, UH, ONE, UH, USE WATER RECLAIM, UH, THAT WAS BROUGHT UP BY THE NEIGHBORS IN SOMETHING WE WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT.
ANOTHER WAS, UH, NO PLAYING OF LOUD MUSIC, UH, OR INTERCOMS. WE AGREED TO THAT AS A CONDITION WITH THE NEIGHBORS.
UH, ANOTHER ELEMENT THAT WAS RAISED WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGHT LIGHTS.
I, IN THE MEETING MENTIONED 15 FEET.
WE SPOKE WITH THE NEIGHBORS ABOUT, UM, MAINTAINING THAT, CUZ THAT'S TYPICAL OF DARK SKY ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS.
UH, WE ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE THE PD RE RESTRICTS THEM TO 10 FEET, SO WE'RE GOING TO HOLD TO THAT.
UM, AND THEN HOURS OF OPERATION WE SET, OUR TYPICAL HOURS OF OPERATION ARE 7:00 AM TO 7:00 PM UM, MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY, AND 7:00 AM TO 6:00 PM ON SUNDAYS.
THE GENERAL FEEL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING WAS, UM, I WOULD SAY WE HAD A LARGE CONTINGENCY OF THE PEOPLE AT THE MEETING THAT 15 PEOPLE SHOWED UP.
OF THE 500 PEOPLE, WE, WE PUT FLYERS AT THEIR HOMES.
ROUGHLY, UH, OF THE 15, I WOULD SAY FIVE.
WERE QUIET, ALMOST INDIFFERENT, FIVE WERE FAIRLY VOCAL THAT MAYBE THIS ISN'T THE USE THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.
ANY OTHER SPEAKERS IN, UH, IN OPPOSITION, MA'AM? IN, IN FAVOR, IN OPPOSITION, PLEASE COME.
I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE CARD.
I LIVE AT 34 0 7 WINGED FOOT COURT.
I LIVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF FOREST LANE, SO I'M PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WAS CANVASED.
SO, UM, THE, UM, UM, MIKE HOSTED, UH, SOME OF US AND, UM, MS. DENARD AT, UH, BRAH AND OFFERED US ICE CREAM IF WE WANTED IT, WHICH WAS NICE.
UM, BUT, UM, SO, UH, MY OBJECTIONS TO THIS IS, UM, THERE ARE A, YOU BRING THE SITE PLANE BACK UP, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT YOU PROBABLY NOTICED THERE WERE ACTUALLY HOMES DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE CAR WASH, NOT COMMERCIAL HOMES.
SO THIS MORNING I ACTUALLY WENT OVER THERE AND, UH, I TOOK A PICTURE FROM THE, FROM THE FRONT YARD OF, UM, ONE OF THE HOMES THAT WE'LL BE FACING THIS CAR WASH.
SO I AM CONCERNED, UM, ABOUT THE IMPACT THIS WILL HAVE ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD ACROSS THE STREET.
UM, WE LOVE LIVING IN OUR PARK, PARK FORCE, NEIGHBORHOOD, AND, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WILL, UH, BE AFFECTED ACROSS THE STREET IS WHAT I WOULD CALL, I HOPE THIS IS OKAY, A WORKING CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE ATTEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THE AREA MOSTLY AND MAKE GREAT USE OF THE PARK AND BRAMS AND THE LIBRARY.
I OBJECT TO PUTTING IN A CAR WASH WHOSE VOLUME HAS TO BE REGULATED.
THAT MEANS IT HAS TO BE CHECKED REGULARLY.
UM, AND THE IMPACT IT'S GONNA HAVE ON THEM, THE HOURS 7:00 AM ON A SATURDAY OR A SUNDAY MORNING IS, UM, I DON'T THINK A SMALL THING.
UM, THE VOLUME OF CARS, I'M WONDERING ABOUT THAT.
IS IT A HUNDRED A DAY, 200, 300, 400, 600? I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THERE'S NO DRIVE-THROUGHS, UH, BETWEEN WEB CHAPEL AND THIS CARWASH.
ALL THE BUSINESSES IN THAT AREA ARE PULL-UP BUSINESSES, RIGHT? UM, THERE'S A OLD, UH, THERE'S A RETIREMENT CENTER ON ONE SIDE, A RESTAURANT, UM, A VARIETY OF THINGS IN THE ALDI PARKING LOT, NO DRIVE-THROUGHS.
SO THIS IS QUITE A DEPARTURE FROM, IN FACT, THERE ARE NO DRIVE-THROUGH BUSINESSES FROM WEB CHAPEL ALL THE WAY TO MARSH LANE.
SO I OBJECT TO ALL THE TRAFFIC AND I'M NOT SO SURE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW PEOPLE ARE 400 CARS OR 300, WHATEVER IT IS.
I'M NOT SO SURE ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE TURNING LEFT.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF PEOPLE LOOKED AT TRAFFIC IN THE NUMBER OF ACCIDENTS AT CROMWELL.
WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD FATALITIES AT CROMWELL AND FOREST LANE, AND THAT IS AT A LIGHTED INTERSECTION.
THEN MY OTHER OBJECTION IS, UM, WE ALREADY HAVE A CAR WASH NEARBY.
THERE'S A CAR WASH ONE QUARTER OF THE MILE DOWN.
THIS WILL MAKE ACTUALLY THE FOURTH OR FIFTH CAR WASH.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US UHHUH.
MR. SCARBOROUGH, YOU GET A TWO MINUTE REBUTTAL, SIR.
[00:40:10]
UM, IN REGARDS TO THE COMMENT, UH, ABOUT TRAFFIC, THIS WAS REVIEWED BY YOUR TRAFFIC, UH, TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT AND THEY SAW NO NEGATIVE IMPACTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN REGARDS TO, UH, PROXIMITY TO ANOTHER CAR WASH.THE DEMOGRAPHICS AND THE AREA SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT BE BE WHETHER IT BE TRAFFIC, UH, INCOME, UH, HOUSEHOLD POPULATION, UH, PROXIMITY TO EXISTING COMPETITION.
UM, IT'D BE NO DIFFERENT THAN A BURGER KING AND A MCDONALD'S WANTING TO BE IN THE SAME GENERAL TRADE AREA FOR THE SAME REASON, JUST A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT OFFER.
UM, AS IT RELATES TO NOISE AND, AND IMPACT TO THE NEIGHBORS ACROSS THE STREET.
THE UPDATED LANDSCAPE PLAN WE PROVIDED, WHICH IS IN THE SLIDE PACKAGE WE WERE LOOKING AT, ACTUALLY TOOK OUT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES THAT ARE EXISTING AND INCLUDED, UH, THREE INCH CALIPER TREES AND SHRUBS ALONG THAT FRONTAGE IN ORDER TO MITIGATE BOTH VISUAL AND NOISE, UH, IMPACTS ACROSS FOREST LANE.
UM, I'M TRYING TO THINK IF THERE'S ANY, ANYTHING ELSE THAT SHE MENTIONED THAT I DIDN'T, UH, FULLY ADDRESS.
I, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR THE MOMENT.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT, PLEASE.
UM, YES, FOR EITHER, EITHER OF YOU.
UM, WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TRAFFIC AND PARKING AND LAYOUT OF THE SITE.
UM, CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT THE, UH, BEST PRACTICES AND THE, UH, UM, WELL THE BEST PRACTICES AND, AND THE AVAILABILITY OF, OF EQUIPMENT THAT IS, UM, QUIETER THAN WHAT MOST OF US ASSUME A CAR WASH WILL BE.
IN OTHER WORDS, UH, IT WAS POINTED OUT THERE'S HOUSES DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM YOUR PROPOSED SITE THAT'S 200 FEET.
UM, I KNOW THESE DRYERS ARE VERY, VERY LOUD.
I KNOW THE VACUUMS CAN BE VERY LOUD.
WHAT IS THERE NEW TECHNOLOGY? IS THERE NEW, UH, ABILITY TO CONTROL THE NOISE AT ONE OF THESE CAR WASHES? UH, COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT? YES, SIR.
THE, UH, ABILITY TO CONTROL THE NOISE AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL IS LARGELY DERIVED THROUGH THE SYSTEM THAT YOU PURCHASE AND, AND THE DECIBEL LEVELS THAT IT CAN REACH WITHIN A CERTAIN, WITHIN A CERTAIN, UM, FEET FROM THE SOUND SOURCE.
UM, WE WOULD, WE KNOW WE WOULD HAVE TO MEET THE CITY OF DALLAS, THE SOUND ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO THE SYSTEM WE WOULD PURCHASE WOULD, WOULD MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE NOT LOUDER THAN WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE ALLOWED BY ORDINANCE FOR, FOR THE BUSINESS.
THE OTHER MEN IDEA YOU OR ELEMENT YOU MENTIONED WAS THE VACUUMS. THE VACUUMS ARE ACTUALLY LOCATED WITHIN A, A VACUUM ENCLOSURE.
SO THAT'S A FOUR-SIDED STRUCTURE WITH A ROOF.
UM, AND SO THE LARGE NOISE GENERATION THAT WOULD COME FROM THE VACUUMS WILL BE KEPT INSIDE THAT STRUCTURE AND THERE WILL JUST BE A MUFFLER FOR EXHAUST AND A LITTLE BIT A A LITTLE BIT OF THE SOUND ATTENUATION COMING OUT OF THAT, BUT ABSOLUTELY, AND THE REASON WE ORIENTED THE SITE IN THE MANNER THAT WE DID IS BECAUSE, UM, TYPICALLY THE CAR WASH WILL BE BUSY WHEN THE TRAFFIC IS THERE.
THE TRAFFIC BEING THERE MEANS THAT THE NOISE FROM THE TRAFFIC WILL LARGELY CUT DOWN OR ALMOST BLOCK THE NOISE THAT'S GENERATED FROM THE, FROM THE CAR WASH.
AND SO IT'S BEEN OUR EXPERIENCE IN MOST CASES THAT IF YOU WERE TO ACTUALLY BE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF FOREST LANE IS IN THIS EXAMPLE, A LOT OF THE NOISE THAT WOULD BE GENERATED DURING THE BUSY HOURS BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC IS THERE TO CREATE THE BUSY HOURS WOULD BE CUT DOWN BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC THAT'S EXISTING.
UH, ALONG THE VERY SAME LINES, YOU KNOW, I THINK MAYBE, POSSIBLY YOU HAVE A, A DESIGN ISSUE HERE WHERE WHY WOULDN'T YOU EXTEND THE, THE TUNNEL ANOTHER CAR LENGTH OR TWO AND THEN PUT A, PUT A DOOR THERE WHERE THE DOOR IS ALWAYS CLOSED WHEN THE, WHEN THE BLOWERS ARE ON, ONCE IT DRIES THE CAR, THE DOOR OPENS YOU, THAT KIND OF SYSTEM.
CUZ IT, SORRY, BUT IT, IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT, UH, AND THIS IS JUST FROM, FROM OBSERVATIONS THAT THE TUNNEL TENDS TO BECOME KIND OF A SPEAKER, RIGHT? IT'S KIND OF HOLLOW.
SO THE SOUND OF THOSE BLOWERS TENDS TO KIND OF PROJECT IN A WAY THAT ALMOST BOUNCES OFF WHAT COMES ACROSS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
WHY NOT CLOSE IT WHILE IT'S BEING DRY? IT IS POSSIBLE AND IT IS AN ELEMENT THAT WE HAVE INSTALLED ON OTHER, OTHER LOCATIONS.
THE ONLY CAVEAT I WOULD TELL YOU TO THAT IS WHEN THE, IT, WHEN THE CAR WASH IS BUSY, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE CARS COMING RIGHT AFTER EACH OTHER, THE DOOR DOESN'T TYPICALLY HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO COME DOWN AND THEN GO BACK UP.
AND SO IT'S AN ELEMENT THAT CAN BE IMPLEMENTED.
I WOULD JUST BEING REALISTIC WITH THE SITUATION AND WHILE WE DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE NONSTOP ALL
[00:45:01]
DAY, EVERY DAY, THE LIKELIHOOD IS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE BUSY MOMENTS WHERE THE DOOR WOULDN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME DOWN AND HELP BLOCK THAT, BLOCK.I, I'M GONNA SLIGHTLY DISAGREE WITH YOU THERE BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S JUST A FUNCTION OF LENGTH, RIGHT? YOU, YOU COULD DESIGN A A, A DOOR TO SLIDE DOWN VERY QUICKLY WHEN THE BLOWERS ARE ON AND HAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR THE CAR TO CLEAR THAT WHEN THE BLOWER TURNS OFF THE DOOR GOES UP.
SO I GUESS YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE CAR TO CLEAR THE DOOR AND THEN IT COMES DOWN SO THAT, THAT WOULD SLOW YOU DOWN.
Y YES, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT.
IT OB OBVIOUSLY ALSO CHANGES THE TEMPO THAT YOU WOULD BE RUNNING THE CARS AND THE SPACING WITHIN THE TUNNEL.
BUT YES, THERE WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT YOU'LL HAVE ANY QUEUING OF VEHICLES UNFORCED AT ANY POINT DURING YOUR OPERATIONS? WE DON'T ANTICIPATE IT.
HOW, HOWEVER, NEVER SAY NEVER.
I MEAN, WE DON'T ANTICIPATE IT.
THE 25 CAR QUEUE STACK IS SIGNIFICANT.
IT'S MORE THAN WE SEE IN MOST JURISDICTIONS THAT WE DEVELOP IN.
AND THE, UH, PACE OF THE PACE OF THE CONVEYOR TYPICALLY WILL MOVE CARS THROUGH AT A A AT A DECENT PACE.
AND SO WE DON'T TYPICALLY SEE THAT TYPE OF BACKUP.
BUT, AND THE BIGGEST OF STORMS WITH THE LARGEST BIG OLD DUST STORM HERE THAT MAY TAKE PLACE.
IT COULD, I, COULD IT BE POSSIBLE? YES, BUT WE WOULD HAVE EMPLOYEES OUT THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE MOVING CARS ALONG AS FAST AS WE CAN.
I, I WON'T KNOW, I WILL NOT SIT HERE AND TELL YOU IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN, BUT I WOULD SAY IN 99% OF THE CASES IT WOULD, IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.
WERE THERE, UM, ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING ELEMENTS THAT YOU WERE ASKED TO INCLUDE THAT YOU SAW YOU DECIDED NOT TO INCLUDE IN YOUR LANDSCAPING PLAN? I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS ANYTHING.
WE WERE A, WELL, LET ME TAKE THAT BACK.
UH, THERE WAS, UH, THE DETACHED SIDEWALK TO PUT SOME LANDSCAPING BETWEEN THE RIGHT TURN DECAL LANE AND THE PROPERTY LINE.
THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE DIDN'T CATCH.
IT WASN'T INTENDED TO BE, UH, MISSED.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I CONVEYED TO COMMISSIONER STEINARD.
WE WOULD BE CON HAPPY TO BE CONDITIONED TO, TO RELOCATE THE SIDEWALK AWAY FROM, UH, THE CURB LINE AND TO PUT LANDSCAPING IN IN THAT AREA.
OUTSIDE OF THAT, WE DID SIGNIFICANT LANDSCAPING AT THE EXIT END OF THE TUNNEL.
AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE PUT IN THREE, I THINK, UH, THREE INCH CALIPER TREES AT PLANTING.
SO NOT TINY LITTLE TREES THAT ARE GONNA GROW INTO SOMETHING SOMEDAY, BUT FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL SIZED TREES RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE AND A BIG ROW OF HEDGES RIGHT AT THE EXIT END OF THE TUNNEL TO NOT ONLY BLOCK THE VISUAL ASPECT OF THE TUNNEL, BUT ALSO THE, THE NOISE AS WELL.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN PULL BACK UP THE PICTURE, BUT HOW FAR ARE YOU FROM THE HOUSES THAT ARE RIGHT ACROSS FOREST? I MEASURED IT, UH, ON A GOOGLE EARTH IMAGE JUST AS I WAS SITTING HERE BEFORE I CAME DOWN AND IT WAS JUST OVER 200 FEET.
SO YOU SAID YOU HAVE 90 OVER 90 CAR WASHES YOU OPERATE? YES, MA'AM.
HOW MANY OF THOSE HAVE HOUSING THAT CLOSE? A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF THEM.
WE HAVE, UH, ONE OF THE PROJECTS WE DID IN PHOENIX AT 83RD AVE.
AND, UM, SORRY, HOW MANY IN THIS AREA? DALLAS FORT WORTH? YOU KNOW, I WASN'T, I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT WE HAVE DEVELOPED A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF HOMES WITHIN, UH, CLOSER PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL.
JUST AGAIN, WE'RE SPECIFICALLY JUST TALKING ABOUT ZONING HERE IN DALLAS FORT WORTH, BUT YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY I'M SORRY.
NO, NOT IN DALLAS FORT WORTH OR NOT IN THE DALLAS AREA, NOT IN CITY OF DALLAS.
I'M, I'M TRYING TO GO THROUGH MY, MY, UH, PROJECT ROLODEX RIGHT NOW AND THINK ABOUT THE PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL.
SO, UM, IF I COULD GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.
LET ME THINK THROUGH THAT FOR A MINUTE.
COMMISSIONER STANDARD? UH, YES.
UH, SINCE THIS WAS BROUGHT UP, UH, HOW MANY CARS DO YOU ANTICIPATE PER DAY AT THE CAR WASH? LIKE IF YOU USE ONE OF YOUR OTHER EXAMPLES? I WENT TO THE ONE FOR INSTANCE ON NORTHWEST HIGHWAY TO SEE HOW IT OPERATED AND EVERYTHING.
SO WHAT IS, WHAT DO YOU ANTICIPATE? TYPICALLY THESE, UH, CAR WASHES ARE SEEING SOMEWHERE BETWEEN TWO AND 300 CARS A DAY.
I KNOW I GOOGLED THAT AND I SAW THAT IT WAS, MOST OF 'EM HAVE 300 A DAY AND ON THE WEEKENDS THEY HAVE 400 A DAY.
NOW I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION WHICH HAS TO DO WITH THIS NOISE THING.
ALSO, WHEN I WENT TO THE CAR WASH ON NORTHWEST HIGHWAY, I WENT ACROSS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF NORTHWEST HIGHWAY AND LISTEN TO THE BLOWERS.
[00:50:01]
WITH YOU, IT'S NOT THE VACUUMS, YOU SEEM TO HAVE MITIGATED THAT NOISE, WHICH WAS VERY SMART ON YOUR PART.BUT THE BLOWER IS LIKE LISTENING TO A JET PLANE.
AND WHEN I GOT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF NORTHWEST HIGHWAY, I COULD HEAR IT EVEN WITH CARS GOING, IT WASN'T LIKE THEY WERE ROARING AND I COULDN'T HEAR IT.
IF I'D BEEN A HOMEOWNER LIVING THERE, I COULD HEAR THAT BLOWER.
AND IF THAT BLOWER IS GOING OFF 300 TIMES A DAY, WOULD YOU NOT AGREE THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TRAFFIC, FULL-TIME TRAFFIC GOING TO MITIGATE THAT? I WOULD AGREE THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH FULL-TIME TRAFFIC TO MITIGATE IT.
AND I, I THINK I QUALIFIED EARLIER THAT THE MAJOR WHEN WE'RE, WE'RE BUSIEST WHEN THE VEHICLES, WHEN THE VEHICLES ARE BUSY ON THE ROADWAY.
SO WOULD IT BE A FULL-TIME MITIGATION? NO, BUT TYPICALLY WHEN WE'RE BUSY, THE IS WHEN THE VEHICLES ARE ON THE ROAD.
SO DURING HIGH DRIVE TIMES, MORNING DRIVE TIME AND EVENING DRIVE TIME.
I GUESS I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION THAT IS ABOUT, I DID HAVE AN ISSUE AND I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS.
CAN WE PULL UP THE PICTURE OF THE CAR WASH, THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN PLEASE.
AND I GUESS MR. NAVARRES WILL HAVE TO AT SOME POINT COME INTO THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE WHEN WE GET THIS UP, I'LL GO TO IT.
MY CONCERN IS THIS, THERE IS BASICALLY ONE ENTRANCE AND EXIT.
I MEAN THE ONE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUALLY UTILIZE.
WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT IN IN TERMS OF FROM FOREST LANE? FROM FOREST LANE? YES MA'AM.
AND SO CARS ARE COMING IN FROM FOREST LANE AND CARS ARE GOING OUT AND THOSE CARS THAT ARE GOING OUT ARE ALLOWED TO TURN LEFT WITH NO LIGHT.
IT'S TURNING LEFT WITH A CURB CUT HERE, CARS GOING THIS WAY.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK ON FOREST LANE.
I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN HAVE CARS STACKING ON FOREST LANE TURNING IN CARS, CROSSING THE STACKING LANE TO GET OUT TO GO OUT FOREST LANE.
AND THEN SOME OF THEM TURNING LEFT.
AND WHILE YOU'RE WAITING, THE OTHERS ARE LINING UP.
SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME? UH, YEAH, I'LL, I WILL TRY MY BEST.
THE, THE DRIVE IS EXISTING TODAY AND SERVES THAT AREA TODAY.
THE ACCESS POINT BEING A FULL, FULL ACCESS POINT AT THAT LOCATION EXISTS TODAY.
SO THE CONDITIONS THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING ARE INHERENT AND EXIST TODAY.
UM, CARS WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A LEFT IN AT THAT FULL ACCESS POINT.
THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE A RIGHT IN, UH, TO THAT DRIVEWAY.
AND THEN THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE A LEFT OUT OF THAT DRIVEWAY.
AND SO YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE MORE THAN TWO CARS IN THAT DRIVEWAY, ONE GOING IN, ONE GOING OUT.
BUT YOU MAY HAVE CUSTOMERS COMING FROM DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS JUST DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT'S A FULL, UM, FULL ACCESS DRIVE.
YEAH, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY, AND I'LL ASK YOU THIS QUESTION, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS A BIT DIFFERENT IS WITH THE GOLDEN CORRAL, YOU DIDN'T HAVE 300 CARS A DAY COMING IN, COMING OUT AND THEN TRYING TO MANEUVER ON THE PROPERTY TO GET TO THE VACUUM STALLS AND THEN TRYING TO ALL GO OUT TOWARDS THE NORTH OF YOUR PROPERTY.
I MEAN, THERE SEEMS TO BE A A WHOLE TRAFFIC ISSUE HERE AND AND I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE UTILIZATION OF, AND I WANT YOU TO CLARIFY, IF YOU WOULD, OF THIS HATCHED AREA BECAUSE AGAIN, I SEE CARS STACKING THERE.
AND THEN YOU SAY, KEEP THIS AREA CLEAR.
SO YOU'RE SAYING TO THE PERSON THAT'S WAITING IN LINE TO GET IN THOSE THREE FUNNELS, THAT HE KEEPS IT CLEAR, ARE YOU EXPECTING CARS FROM THE VACUUMS TO GO OUT THAT WAY? IT WOULD BE AN OPTION FOR THE CARS TO EXIT THROUGH THAT HATCHED AREA.
IT WOULD ALSO IS BEING KEPT CLEAR SO THAT CUSTOMERS HAVE THE ABILITY TO UTILIZE THE PARKING THAT EXISTS BEHIND THE, UH, COMMERCIAL BUILDING TO THE EAST.
IT'S MAKING SURE THAT THAT AREA DOESN'T GET CLOGGED.
AND THEN THE OTHER, THE OTHER ELEMENT IT DOES BY HAVING THAT OPENING DOWN THERE AND KEEP CLEAR IS IT ALSO PROVIDES A ROUTE FOR OUR TRASH, UH, WASTE WASTE FACILITIES TO COME DOWN, PICK UP THE TRASH AND CIRCLE THROUGH THE PARKING LOT AND PULL OUT.
SO IT'S SERVICING TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS.
WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY WHEN I ACTUALLY WENT TO YOUR OTHER ONE, WHICH WAS VERY SIMILAR TO
[00:55:01]
THIS, VERY SIMILAR, AND I ACTUALLY FUNCTIONED THAT WAY TO GO TO THE VACUUMS, THERE WAS A WHOLE TRAFFIC JAM ABOUT SOMEONE TRYING TO GET IN, PEOPLE TRYING TO GET OUT THE STACKING OF CARS.I MEAN, THERE WAS A TRAFFIC ISSUE.
AND THE DIFFERENCE ON THE LEFT TURN IS PEOPLE AT GOLDEN CORRAL AREN'T COMING OUT EVERY MINUTE TURNING LEFT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT MAYBE ONE CAR AT A TIME.
I, I DON'T KNOW, THIS JUST SEEMS STRANGE.
I HAVE TO, I WANNA ASK YOU ONE OTHER THING ABOUT, UM, NOW DID YOU SAY ON THE SIDEWALK THAT IF YOU WERE GOING TO ACCOMMODATE A BUFFERED SIDEWALK THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BUFFERED BEING, YOU HAVE A, WHAT IS IT, FIVE FEET GREEN, THEN YOU HAVE THE SIDEWALK AND THEN YOU HAVE A PLANTING AREA.
AND IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT WALKABLE, IF IT TOOK UP THAT CURB CUT THAT'S ON FOREST TO TURN INTO YOUR PLACE, HOW COULD YOU ACCOMMODATE THAT? WELL, WHAT WE WERE, WHAT I WAS DESCRIBING WAS IF YOU, IF IF, UH, MS. MUNOZ COULD GO TO THE, UH, COLORED LANDSCAPE PLAN, IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO SEE.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE PROJECT, IT THAT, UH, DETACHED SIDEWALK WITH GREEN AREA EXISTS TODAY.
AND SO WHAT I WAS DESCRIBING WAS WHERE THE, WHERE THE RIGHT TURN DESAL LANE COMES IN, WE COULD REMOVE THE SIDEWALK THAT RUNS RIGHT ALONG THAT CURB LINE AND BRING IT SOUTH AND PROVIDE THAT, UH, LANDSCAPE BUFFER AGAINST THE CURB LINE ALONG FOREST LANE.
I, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A NEED TO ELIMINATE THE RIGHT TURN LANE OR THAT DRIVE TO ACCOMMODATE IT, AND THEN IT WOULD RETURN BACK TO WHAT EXISTS TODAY TO THE EAST.
WELL, I'M NOT SURE I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT WHEN I SPOKE TO MR. NAVARRES ABOUT IT, HE SAID THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE A WALKWAY ACROSS THIS NORTH EDGE OF YOUR PROPERTY WOULD BE TO REMOVE THE CURB CUT THERE AND TO MAKE THAT PART OF THE BUFFER SO SOMEONE COULD WALK FROM THIS SIDE OF THE PROPERTY ALL THE WAY OVER EXPECTING THAT THE STRIP CENTER IS GOING TO BE REVITALIZED AT SOME POINT AND IT WOULD MAKE IT A WALKABLE AREA.
AND THE NEIGHBORS WERE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT ASKING FOR THAT.
YOU KNOW, I DID RECEIVE OVER 12 LETTERS THAT THEY ALL TALKED ABOUT THAT KIND OF, THAT SPECIFIC THING ABOUT WALKABILITY IF IT WAS GOING TO BE THERE.
UH, LET ME JUST SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE I WANTED TO ASK YOU.
I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT THE PARKING THAT'S BEING MAINTAINED ALONG FOREST LANE IS ONLY BEING UTILIZED FOR EMPLOYEES.
THERE'S MORE THAN ENOUGH PARKING THERE.
AND SO IF WE NEEDED TO HAVE AN SIDEWALK EASEMENT THAT WOULD BE GRANTED AND, AND ENCROACH INTO THE PROPERTY A LITTLE BIT IN ORDER FOR THE SIDEWALK TO GET THE SEPARATION IT NEEDS, WE'D BE OPEN TO THAT.
I WANNA ASK ONE LAST QUESTION.
HAVE YOU EVER HAD AT ANY OTHER LOCATIONS, IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO BE IN DALLAS, LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT ANYWHERE, HOW HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO MITIGATE THE SOUNDS OF THOSE BLOWERS? HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO HAVE WHERE THEY'VE COME IN AND SAID YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SAM AND BEEN ABLE TO ADDRESS THAT? YES, MA'AM.
UH, WE HAD, UH, WE DID HAVE A SITUATION IN, UH, CARROLLTON, UH, ON MIDWAY ROAD.
THE TUNNEL WAS FACING, UH, COMMERCIAL BUSINESS IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH.
AND THE OCCUPANTS OF THE BUILDING, UH, WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SOUND LEVELS.
THE CITY OF CARROLLTON CAME OUT, DID A, UH, SOUND READING, FOUND THAT WE WERE JUST MISSING THE REQUIREMENT, BUT NEEDED US TO ADDRESS IT.
AND SO IN THAT INSTANCE, WE, THE SOLUTION WAS TO GO AND INSTALL A, A WOOD FENCE.
AGAIN, THIS IS AN INTERNAL AREA BETWEEN TWO BUSINESSES.
THIS ISN'T AGAINST THE RIGHT OF WAY.
CARROLLTON DID COME OUT, DID ASK US TO ADDRESS IT, AND WE DID ADDRESS IT IN ANOTHER INSTANCE, UM, AT A PROJECT IN ARIZONA, WE HAD BLOWERS, UH, THAT EXCEEDED THE NOISE LEVEL AND WE REPLACED THEM WITH A DIFFERENT TYPE OF BLOWER THAT HAD SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DECIBEL, UH, PUT OUT OUTPUT.
SO WE HAVE HAD TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES IN, IN THE PAST, AND WE'VE, WE'VE ADDRESSED THEM AND WE'VE GOTTEN PAST WHATEVER ISSUE WAS RAISED.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE A HISTORY OF NEIGHBOR COMPLAINTS OR NEIGHBORHOOD COMPLAINTS.
UM, IN FACT, I WOULD TELL YOU OUTSIDE OF THOSE TWO NOISE ISSUES I JUST RAISED ARE PROBABLY THE, THE SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THEM AS IT RELATES
[01:00:01]
TO OPERATIONAL OPERATIONS OF THAT CAR, CAR WASH.WE'RE A REALLY GOOD OPERATOR AND WE REALLY DO LISTEN TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE DO TRY TO CATER TO WHAT WE THINK WOULD BE THE BEST BENEFICIAL LAYOUT, CONFIGURATION, ET CETERA, FOR, FOR NOT ONLY US AS AN OPERATOR, BUT FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE YOU ARE AWARE OF ONE LAST THING THOUGH.
ARE YOU AWARE THAT FOR INSTANCE, A SCHOOL STADIUM DECIBEL LEVEL IS 56 DECIBELS? OKAY, THIS IS WHEN THEY'VE GOT A FOOTBALL GAME GOING AND YADA YADA YADA.
AND THE ANNOUNCERS CALLING IT, AND THEY'RE SCREAMING AND CHEERING AND THE LEVEL IS 56.
AND MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, UH, THE, THE DECIBEL LEVEL AT A HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL STADIUM ISN'T RELEVANT TO, WELL, I'M SAYING THE DECIBEL LEVEL OF A CARWASH IS 75.
I HADN'T FINISHED, SO THAT WAS WHAT I WAS POINTING OUT.
IT IS EXTREMELY LOUD IF IT WAS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE RESIDENCE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I CAN'T SEE OUR, OUR FOLKS ONLINE IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE.
QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, IS MR. NAVARRES AVAILABLE? HE IS.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HEARD THE QUESTIONS I HAD ABOUT STACKING AND QUEUING IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY EARLIER AT THE BRIEFING, BUT YOU KNOW, IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE, I'LL CALL 'EM SHORT TUNNEL CAR WASHES, UH, WE HAVE ONE ON FORT WORTH AVENUE.
WE HAVE A CONSISTENT PROBLEM ON SAY FRIDAY EVENING, SATURDAY AFTERNOON, SUNDAY AFTERNOONS OF, UM, PEOPLE WAITING TO GET INTO THE CARWASH, YOU KNOW, FAR IN EXCESS OF THE 25 REQUIRED STACKING SPACES.
YOU KNOW, THEY USE THE, UM, THEY CO-OPT THE BIKE LANE.
IT COULD BE SIX CARS, IT COULD BE 12 CARS.
IT CAN SOMETIME EXTEND THROUGH J ONE BAHAMA AND WRAP AROUND BY THE HOME DEPOT.
UM, WHAT IS THE OPERATORS RISK? OH, OKAY.
FIRST OF ALL, HAS THE STAFF DONE ANY OR HAS ITT, WHOEVER, DOES THESE THINGS DONE ANY RECENT LOOK AT WHAT IS AN ADEQUATE STACKING LENGTH FOR, FOR THESE PARTICULAR KINDS OF OPERATIONS? GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS.
UM, DAVID OF OUR TRANSPORTATION DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
I THINK THAT THERE HAVE BEEN, UM, A NUMBER OF, UH, STUDIES, PUBLISHED STUDIES FOR CAR WASHES, UM, PRIMARILY THOSE THAT GO THROUGH ZONING AND MORE, MORE SO THAN THOSE THAT GO THROUGH, UM, PERMITTED BY.
UM, THE CITY OF DALLAS HAS A REQUIREMENT OF 25 STACKING SPACES, AND THAT IS, CAN BE CONSTRUED AS A SUFFICIENT ADEQUATE LENGTH FOR TO SERVE A, A CAR WASH.
HOWEVER, SOMETHING THAT I HEARD, I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT OR SOMEONE THIS AFTERNOON IS THAT EVERY CAR WASH IS DIFFERENT.
AND IT VARIES PRIMARILY BASED ON TWO FACTORS IN MY OPINION.
ONE, THE NUMBER OF THE, THE VEHICLES, THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON THE ADJACENT ROAD, MEANING IF YOU PUT A CAR WASH ON A LOW VOLUME STREET, THEY WILL HAVE, UH, THAT MANY VEHICLES COMPARED TO A MAJOR COLLECTOR OR, OR PRINCIPLE ARTERIAL.
SO, UM, AND THEN, SO THAT'S ONE ASPECT OF IT.
AND THEREFORE WE CAN'T COMPARE TWO CAR WASH TWO SITES.
THEY'RE NOT APPLES TO APPLES UNLESS WE COMPARE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT THEIR ADJACENT ROAD CARRIES.
AND THEN THE SECOND ASPECT IS THE MANAGEMENT WITHIN THE PROPERTY.
SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER STANDARD HA HAD, UH, DURING, UH, HER QUESTIONS EARLIER, SPECIFICALLY RELATED, HOW, HOW WELL WILL IT BE MANAGED? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT HATCHED AREA, FOR EXAMPLE? AND, AND ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY AND WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THE OPERATOR WILL STAFF THEIR SITE ADEQUATELY TO MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THEIR OPERATIONS DON'T SPILL BACK ONTO THE STREET.
AND THEN FINALLY, UH, AS FAR AS WHAT EXERCISES HAS THE CITY OR PUBLISHED MATERIALS HAVE WE DONE IN ORDER TO, UM, PREVENT EXCESS OR SPILLING OUT ONTO THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY? UM, WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT IMPACT REVIEW AT PERMITTING, WHICH IS A, THE ONLY TOOL WE HAVE.
IT'S NOTHING BUT A PAGE, A SHEET OF PAPER THAT WE CAN BRING INTO A STORE MANAGER WHO WOULD BE GLAD TO SEE QUEUING BACKING OUT ONTO THE STREET.
WE SEE IT, IT'S, IT'S COMMON TO SEE QUEUING OUT ON THE STREETS.
AND SO WHAT WE DO, AND ONLY AT THE REQUEST OF CITIZENS AFTER THEY FILE A THREE 11 COMPLAINT, UM, WE GO OUT AND BRING, WE BRING IN THAT SHEET WITH US AND WE SHOW THAT TO THE STORE MANAGER.
OUR STAFF GOES OUT THERE AND, AND TALKS TO THE STORE MANAGER AND EXPLAINS TO 'EM WHY IT'S IN, IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY
[01:05:01]
TO, TO ENFORCE THOSE OPERATIONS THE WAY THAT IT, THAT IT'S SHOWN.IT, IT WORKS FOR DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITIES, IT WORKS FOR, FOR CAR WASHES.
UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY TOOL THAT WE HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL, UH, TO FOLLOW UP.
SO WHAT ARE THE, YOU KNOW, REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS OF, YOU KNOW, UM, ON BEHALF OF THE MANAGEMENT TO EX TO CONTROL THINGS LIKE THAT? CAUSE I MEAN, AGAIN, IT'S A GOOD PROBLEM FOR THEM IF THEY HAVE LOTS OF BUSINESS THAT'S WAITING TO GET IN.
UM, BUT IF IT'S CAUSING PROBLEMS, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE TOOLS THAT THEY HAVE AVAILABLE? SO OBVIOUSLY ONCE THE, ONCE THE SHOP OPENS, THE, THE PROBLEM IS ALREADY THERE AND TYPICALLY HARD TO MITIGATE IF THERE IS A PROBLEM.
UM, SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES MAY INCLUDE STAFFING ADEQUATELY, WHICH MAY SOMETIMES BE OUTSIDE OF THEIR HANDS.
UH, WE'VE SHOWN UP IN DIFFERENT PLACES WHERE WE LET THE STORE MANAGER KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO ENFORCE THEIR PLAN AND THEY SAY, CONTACT MY REGIONAL MANAGER AND TELL 'EM THAT WE NEED MORE PEOPLE AND THEN WE CAN HELP YOU CIE.
SO THOSE ARE FACTORS THAT ARE OBVIOUSLY PERHAPS OUTSIDE OF THE OPERATOR'S HANDS, BUT VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE SIDE TO BE WELL STAFFED.
AND THEN TWO, ANECDOTALLY I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE, I HAVEN'T SEEN A CAR WASH IN DALLAS THAT WE VISITED THAT HASN'T BEEN ADEQUATELY STAFFED DURING PEAK HOURS.
THAT'S, THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE COMMENT BY THE WAY, ANECDOTALLY FROM MY EXPERIENCE.
UM, I'M JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT FOR THE RECORD.
AND, AND THEN TWO, IT'S THE ENFORCEMENT OF ANY TEMPORARY TRAFFIC CONTROL MANAGEMENT, SUCH AS PLACING SIGNS TO LET INDIVIDUALS KNOW THAT WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO AND WHERE THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO GO AFTER THEIR CAR IS DRY OR, OR BEFORE THE WINTER.
BUT, UM, OPTIMAL STAFFING, YOU HAVE A LIMIT IMPOSED BY HOW MANY CARS, THE, THE EQUIPMENT CAN JUST PROCESS.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T PER HOUR DON'T, SO NO MA'AM.
I DON'T THINK THAT I AS A PROFESSIONAL WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A NO.
MY, MY POINT IS JUST THAT SOMETIMES EVEN WITH THE BEST PRACTICES, YOU'RE GOING TO END UP WITH QUEUING IN THE PUBLIC.
I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S ANY PUBLISHED INFORMATION.
I DON'T THINK THAT THERE REALLY IS.
THAT'S VERY PROPRIETARY, PROPRIETARY, PROPRIETARY, PROPRIETARY DATA THAT I DON'T THINK THAT MANY STORES WOULD CARE TO RELEASE OR ANYONE WOULD CARE TO COLLECT.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT I'D BE ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THAT INFORMATION.
I'M COMMISSIONER BLAIR FELLOW BY COMMISSIONER STAN.
HOW ARE YOU TODAY? UM, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO STACKING AND, AND OVERFLOW ONTO THE CITY STREETS, IS IT NOT TRUE THAT ONCE THE PROBLEM EXISTS, UM, WE, THAT THE CITY AND THE RESIDENTS SURROUNDING THAT IS LEFT TO THE TOOLS OF THE OPERATOR TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM? 100% CORRECT, MA'AM.
IS IT THAT, IS THERE A REASON WHY IT, WHEN WE ARE DOING THESE, THESE, UM, THESE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE DON'T SEE BUILDING SERVICES HERE TO, UM, EXPLAIN HOW THEY LOOK AT THEIR RESIDENTIAL, UH, ADJACENCY REVIEW AND, AND AS TO HOW, WHETHER OR NOT IT IS APPROPRIATE, WHETHER IT'S SOUND OR STACKING OR TRAFFIC, THAT, HOW IT ALL FITS TOGETHER YOU CAN ONLY SHOW US THE TRAFFIC SIDE, BUT IT'S STILL THE PERMITTING SIDE AND THE TRAFFIC SIDE THAT SHOULD GO TOGETHER IN ORDER TO SEE THE TRUE PICTURE.
I, I AGREE WITH THOSE STATEMENTS, YES.
SO WHEN WE ARE AS, AS A, UH, A, A GROUP OF, OF COMMISSIONERS LOOKING AT WHAT'S, IS THIS, IS THIS A GOOD USE OF LAND? CAN, CAN YOU HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW FROM A A, A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE AND A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, WE CAN LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT AND AS, AS IT IS DESIGNED TODAY, AND SAY THAT WE WILL NOT SEE A NEGATIVE IMPACT TO THE COMMUNITY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO OVERFLOW ONTO THE STREET? CAN YOU, CAN YOU DEFINITIVELY SAY THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN? NO, MA'AM.
HOWEVER, I WOULD ONLY SAY WE GO BY BYSTANDERS DESIGN STANDARDS.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE MINIMUM OF 25 STACKING, WHICH IS, I MEAN, 25 STACKING SPACES FOR A CAR WASH FACILITY, THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAR WASH.
UM, ANECDOTALLY, AGAIN, SORRY, THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE COMMENT, BUT, UH, THE FACT THAT THE SITE HAS BEEN, UM,
[01:10:02]
REDESIGNED THROUGH OUR REVIEW PROCESS TO ACCOMMODATE ALL 25 IS PROBABLY A GOOD SIGN THAT THE APPLICANT UNDERSTANDS, UM, HOW THEY PLAN TO OPERATE THEIR BUSINESS.UH, IN TERMS OF NUMBERS, WE CAN ALSO PROVIDE THE COMMISSION WITH, UM, THEY'RE NOT RULES OF THUMB.
THEY'RE PUBLISHED DATA AS FAR AS TRAFFIC COUNTS OR GENERATION.
UM, THE 400 I HEARD 400, THAT IS A GENERALLY A GOOD NUMBER TO GO WITH AS FAR AS HOW MANY TRANSACTIONS ARE, UM, COMPLETED WITHIN A, UM, SUCCESSFUL DAY.
AND WHAT WE CAN USE THAT WE, WE CAN USE THAT NUMBER TO ESTIMATE, UH, ABOUT 10% OF THOSE NUMBERS WOULD, OF THAT NUMBER WOULD BE THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES COMING IN WITHIN ONE HOUR AT PEAK HOUR.
SO THAT'S A GENERAL ROOT OF RULE OF THUMBS.
10% OF THE TOTAL, UH, VEHICLE OR TRAFFIC.
UH, THAT MEANS THAT YOU COULD VERY WELL EXPECT 40 VEHICLES WITHIN AN HOUR.
UM, IT, AND AGAIN, THAT'S VARIES DEPENDING ON THE SITE, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY VEHICLES ARE DRIVING ON THAT ADJACENT ROAD.
AND SO WITH THAT IN MIND, ALSO, HOW FAST THE TRANSACTIONS ARE COMPLETED CAN HELP US UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT THEY, THE, THE 25 WOULD BE SUFFICIENT.
IF A VEHICLE WOULD TAKE LONGER THAN AN HOUR TO COMPLETE THEIR, THEIR CAR WASH TRANSACTION THEN WOULD BE CONCERNING.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT A CAR WASH TAKES, AND THAT'S PROBABLY A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT, HOW LONG DO THEIR TRANSACTIONS LAST? AND IF IT'S LESS THAN AN HOUR, I THINK THAT 20, WELL, WE COULD DIVIDE IT, YOU KNOW, 60 DIVIDE BY 25 AND, AND WE, THAT, THAT, THAT NUMBER WOULD BE PROBABLY THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF MINUTES THAT A TRANSACTION COULD LAST BEFORE WE CAN BE CONCERNED ABOUT QUEUING BOTTOM LINE.
WE DON'T THINK THAT, UM, THIS PARTICULAR SITE WOULD RESULT IN, UH, QUEUING ON FOREST LANE, UM, ON ANY GIVEN DAY, THAT MAY NOT BE THE TRUE, YOU KNOW, IT MAY NOT BE CORRECT FOR, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN TIMES OF THE WEEK OR SO.
CAN I, I WANNA CHANGE THE DIRECTION FOR OF MY QUESTION FOR A SECOND.
UM, FOREST LANE, IS IT A MAJOR ARTERIAL OR? YES, MA'AM.
SO, UH, PRINCIPAL ARTERIAL, YES.
SO IT HAS SIX LANE, FOUR LANES, SIX LANES, SO DIVIDED.
UM, HISTORICALLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TAKE ONE OF THOSE LANES AWAY FROM, UH, A MAJOR ARTERIAL THAT HAS THE AVERAGE SPEED SHOULD BE 45, BUT IN REALITY THEY'RE DOING ABOUT 60, RIGHT? UM, I'M NOT, I, I WOULD HAVE TO CHECK THE SPEED LIMIT AND OF SERVED SPEED LIMITS ON FOREST LANE, BUT, UM, I'LL REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT THERE IS AN EXISTING RIGHT TURN LANE, UH, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S WARRANTED FOR THIS SITE, WE DECIDED NOT TO REMOVE IT AS PART OF OUR REVIEW.
WE WOULD RATHER LEAVE THAT IN THE EVENT THAT, UH, QUEUING EXISTS THAN IT WOULD NOT BE OBSTRUCTING THE, THE TRAVEL LANE.
SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT THERE IS A BIKE LANE ON FOREST LANE? THERE IS A, THERE'S A DECELERATION LANE.
SO THIS IS A DE THIS, THIS SITE WOULD HAVE A D CELL.
IT, IT ALREADY INCLUDES A DESAL LANE.
AND IT, DOES IT ALSO HAVE A BIKE LANE? A A WHAT? EXCUSE ME, A BICYCLE LANE? UM, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS FACILITY HAS AN EXISTING NO AS FOREST LANE HAVE A BIKE LANE.
I DON'T THINK IT HAS A BIKE LANE.
THAT, UH, NOT, DOES NOT HAVE A DEDICATED BIKE LANE.
SO LET ME ASK ONE MORE, MORE QUESTION.
I THINK I'M GONNA BE THROUGH WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THERE WAS ONLY A RIGHT TURN LANE OR ONLY RIGHT TURN ONLY ONTO FORESTS LANE AS THEY LEAVE THE FACILITY, THAT THAT OPERATION WOULD ACTUALLY, THAT WOULD IMPROVE THEIR OPERATIONS INTERNALLY.
SO PICTURE YOURSELF EXITING THE VEHICLE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR GAPS TO TURN LEFT.
IT'S MUCH EASIER TO FIND A GAP, UH, TO TURN RIGHT.
SO IT WOULD MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT AS FAR AS THE, UH, INTERNAL OPERATIONS.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR QUESTION IS GOING TO, BUT, SO ONE MORE, AND I PROMISE THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE AN OVERALL IMPROVEMENT TO THE OPERATIONS OF THIS SITE.
NOT THAT IT, SO I PROMISE JUST ONE MORE.
SO IF YOU HAD A RIGHT TURN ONLY IN AND RIGHT, RIGHT TURN ONLY OUT, WOULD THAT IMPROVE THE TOTAL EFFICIENCY IN GETTING TO AND KEEPING THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC ON FOREST LANE CLEAR OF OBSTRUCTION? SURE IT WOULD, BUT I WANNA CLARIFY.
WHEN, WHEN WE THINK OF RE OF OPERATIONS, WE THINK OF RESTRICTIONS
[01:15:01]
NOT, AND, AND THEREFORE THE, THE PROBLEM TURNS INTO HOW DO WE RESTRICT THOSE MOVEMENTS THAT YOU ARE IN EXCLUDING FROM THEIR DRIVEWAY, WHICH MEANS THE LEFT TURN INTO THE SITE, UM, THERE IS A DEDICATED LEFT TURN.UM, I GUESS WE COULD EXPLORE THE POSSIBILITY OF THE DEVELOPER TO REMOVE, DECOMMISSION THE, THE LEFT TURN LANE AT THEIR EXPENSE IN INSTALL A SIGN THAT SAYS NO LEFT TURNS.
UH, BUT, BUT I'LL JUST WARN THE COMMISSION.
MORE SIGNS ON THE ROAD AREN'T NECESSARILY A GOOD IDEA ALL THE TIME.
AND, AND MR. SCARBOROUGH WAS THERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY STACKING SPACES THEY HAVE, BUT THE CAR WASH THAT'S A HALF A MILE AWAY OR LESS THAN A HALF A MILE, THERE IS ALL THE TIME ON FOREST CARS STACKED UP.
NOW HERE'S MY QUESTION THOUGH ABOUT THAT LEFT TURN THING.
LET'S SAY YOU HAD THREE CARS IN THE WAITING IN THAT DECELERATION LANE, WHICH BECOMES ALMOST A FOURTH LANE.
IS EVERYONE FOLLOWING ME? SO YOU HAVE THREE LANES GOING EAST, AND THEN THE FOURTH ONE IS CARS WAITING IN THAT DECELERATION TO TURN IN AND I'M TRYING TO TURN LEFT.
HOW DO I EVEN SEE BEYOND THOSE CARS TO THEN PULL OUT? NO, I CAN PULL OUT TO GO LEFT.
AND, AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT QUEUING ON THE DECELERATION LANE WOULD OBSTRUCT THE VISIBILITY.
THAT'S, THAT'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND DIDN'T YOU WE THAT'S THAT'S THE, AS THE ASSUMPTION THOUGH, EXCUSE ME.
THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THERE WOULD BE QUEUING ON THE RIGHT TURN LANE.
UM, BUT IF AND WHEN THAT HAPPENED, ABSOLUTELY THO THOSE VEHICLES WOULD BE OBSTRUCTING THE VISIBILITY OF VEHICLES ATTEMPTING TO EXIT AND TURN LEFT.
UM, WELL, NEEDLESS TO SAY, WE'VE GOT A PLAN FOR BEST CASE, WORST CASE, YOU KNOW, BOTH OF THEM.
AND FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, AND WELL, THAT'S WHERE THE OPERATOR COMES IN AND WE, AND WE VISIT WITH THEM.
IF THAT BECOMES AN ISSUE, THEN WE'RE NOTIFIED WE GO VISIT WITH THEM AND WE TRY TO EXPLAIN TO 'EM WHAT WOULD BE A SOLUTION AND PARTNER WITH THEM FIGURING OUT A SOLUTION.
ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD BE THEY INSTALL THEIR OWN SIGN ON THEIR PROPERTY THAT SAYS NO LEFT TURNS OR RIGHT TURN ONLY, WHICH WOULD BE OUR PREFERRED.
UM, BUT WOULDN'T YOU SAY THAT IN PLANNING FOR SOMETHING BRAND NEW AT THIS SITE AND DELIBERATING WHETHER TO APPROVE IT OR NOT, THAT WE SHOULD ANTICIPATE OF CERTAIN ISSUES THAT WE KNOW ARE, SEEM OBVIOUS NOW, AND TRY TO SAY, WILL THIS WORK, SHOULD IT BE MITIGATED? YES, OF COURSE TRAFFIC IS A CRYSTAL BALL GAME.
BUT THIS IS A BUSINESS THAT IS CONSTANT DRIVE IN, DRIVE OUT, DRIVE IN, DRIVE OUT, DRIVE IN, DRIVE OUT.
UM, MY, MY ONLY RECOMMENDATION FOR THE COMMISSION IS TO, TO COMPARE WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU TO, UH, WHAT OTHER USERS WOULD BE ALLOWED BY, RIGHT.
UH, LASTLY, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, GOING BACK TO THIS CURB CUT THING, IS THERE A WAY TO PUT IN URBAN FORM SIDEWALKS WITH THE CURB CUT THERE? UH, CAN YOU REPEAT BUFFERED? CAN YOU SIDEWALKS REPEAT THE QUESTION? CAN, IS THERE A WAY WITHOUT GETTING RID OF THE CURB CUT WAS WHEN I SPOKE WITH YOU BEFORE, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE DECELERATION LANE, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TECHNICAL TERM IS THAT, IS THERE A WAY TO HAVE BUFFERED SIDEWALKS, LANDSCAPE BUFFERED ALL ACROSS THAT PROPERTY AND STILL KEEP THAT DECELERATION, RIGHT? NO, MA'AM.
AND, AND EVEN BEFORE WE, YOU BROUGHT IT UP DURING THE BRIEFING, UM, MS. MUNOZ AND I DISCUSSED THE, THE IDEA WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A BUFFER.
THE FACT THAT THE RATTER LANE IS TAKING 10 FEET AWAY FROM, FROM WHERE THE CURB WOULD BE IF THERE WASN'T ONE.
WE, THERE REALLY IS NO SPACE UNLESS WE REMOVE TREES AND, UH, UTILITIES ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY, THERE'S A CABINET BOX.
I THINK IT'S A TELECOMMUNICATION BOX.
I COULDN'T REALLY TELL WHAT IT WAS, BUT NO MA'AM, THERE ARE, THERE'S NO SPACE FOR A BUFFER, UM, BETWEEN THE TREE LINE, THE LINE OF TREES, AND THE RIGHT TURN LANE.
IF WE WANTED A BUFFER, WE WOULD HAVE TO REMOVE THAT DIESEL LANE.
UM, AND SO YOU GOTTA PICK WHICH ONE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONERS? I CAN'T SEE OUR FOLKS ONLINE, SO IF YOU HAVE A
[01:20:01]
QUESTION, PLEASE ASK NOW.COMMISSIONER STANDARD, DO YOU HAVE A MOTION? UH, YES I DO.
IN THE MATTER OF Z 212 DASH 3 39, I MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND NOT FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATION, BUT DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE THIS APPLICATION.
AND I HAVE COMMENTS AFTERWARDS.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER STANDARD FOR YOUR MOTION.
COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT FOR YOUR SECOND COMMENTS.
WELL, YOU KNOW, I WANNA START OFF BY SAYING THIS TO THE APPLICANT.
I DON'T KNOW THE OWNER APPLICANT, BUT I'VE DEALT WITH THE REPRESENTATIVE AND I WILL SAY MR. SCARBOROUGH HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT ACCOMMODATING.
HE'S BEEN OVER BACKWARDS AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.
HOWEVER, WHEN I LOOK AT THIS SITE, I DON'T SEE THIS AS AN EXTENSION OF THE COMMERCIAL RETAIL AREA TO THE WEST.
IN FACT, I THINK THERE'S A DEMARCATION OF A 20 FOOT ALLEY THAT IS IN BETWEEN THAT L-SHAPED STRIP CENTER AND THIS SITE, THIS IS A STANDALONE SITE, WHAT IT IS NOW.
AND I THINK THAT WHEN THEY DRAFTED PD 4 29, THE DRAFTERS WERE VERY PRESCIENT ABOUT THIS.
THEY REALIZED THOSE, THAT SITE, WHICH IS RIGHT NOW, TRACK FOUR WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER THAT WAS CR AND SO THEY DEALT WITH IT DIFFERENTLY.
THEY SAID NO CARWASH, NO DRIVE-THROUGHS.
YOU KNOW, THOSE WEREN'T ALLOWED AT THAT SITE BECAUSE IT SITS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE SAME AS ACROSS THE STREET.
THERE'S A CLEAR DEMARCATION FROM THE RETAIL, IT'S ALL BRICK THAT CAN HAVE NO TRUCKS BACK THERE.
AND I JUST FEEL LIKE WE ARE TASKED HERE WHEN WE ARE TRYING TO DO A NEW TRACK AND A PD AND REVISE IT.
I'M SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS AS WELL AS WHAT THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING AND DOES THIS DETRIMENTALLY IMPACT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD? AND I'VE MET THE NEIGHBORS, I'VE GOTTEN THEIR LETTERS.
PEOPLE HAVE LIVED IN THESE HOMES FOR 25 YEARS.
LIKE MS. PERKINS SAID, THESE ARE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE AND THIS IS THEIR HOME.
WHAT THEY SAID AT OUR MEETING IS THEY WANT AN AREA PLAN, THEY WANT SOME PLANS THAT THIS IS NOT JUST WHAT THEY CALL A DUMPING GROUND OF WHAT NOBODY ELSE IN THE DISTRICT WANTS.
YOU KNOW, PAWN SHOPS, CHECK CASHING PLACES THAT THERE'S SOME PLAN FOR REVITALIZING THESE EMPTY BUSINESSES AND THE FACT THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE A CAR WASH.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I HEARD YOUR ANALOGY.
WELL, THAT'S MCDONALD'S ON ONE SIDE AND BURGER KING ON THE OTHER, BUT YOU KNOW, BY RIGHT, YOU'RE ASKING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT BY RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, MCDONALD'S COULDN'T GO IN THERE WITH A DRIVE-THROUGH, YOU KNOW, SO MY FEELING ABOUT THIS IS THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY THINGS.
I MEAN, IS IT REALLY FAIR TO DEVALUE THE PEOPLE ACROSS THE STREETS HOMES BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A BLOWER GOING ON THREE, I'LL USE YOUR TERMS 300 TIMES A DAY.
YOU'VE GOT A BLOWER THAT'S CONSTANTLY GOING AND COMING OVER TO YOUR SIDE OF THE STREET OR THE PEOPLE BEHIND YOU CAN SEE IT TOO.
AND I I, I JUST THINK THIS, THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE A CAR WASH ACROSS FROM A SINGLE FAMILY AREA.
YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD STAY WITH THE AREAS WHICH IT WAS DESIGNATED BY THE LIGHTS WHERE THE THOROUGHFARES ARE.
I WISH Y'ALL PICKED A LOCATION MAYBE FURTHER WEST THAT WAS MORE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL.
BUT YOU DO YOUR OWN MARKET RESEARCH, YOU'RE THE EXPERTS, AND I CAN'T DO THIS.
THEY WANTED SIDEWALKS, THEY WANT TO STOP AND THEY'VE REACHED OUT TO OUR COUNCIL MEMBER ABOUT HAVING AN AUTHORIZED HEARING IN THIS AREA.
AND IF I WERE TO APPROVE A CAR WASH, IT'S THERE FOR 25 YEARS, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THEY'VE MADE ANY PLAN.
AND I CAN'T DO THAT TO THESE NEIGHBORS.
THERE'S NEIGHBORS IN FRONT AND THEIR NEIGHBORS IN BACK AND AT, AT ANY RATE, I THINK THAT THIS JUST IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS SITE.
AND THAT'S WHY, QUITE FRANKLY, THE PD DID NOT ALLOW IT BY RIGHT? IS CUZ WHERE IT'S LOCATED, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT MIGHT BE RIGHT FOR SOMETHING ELSE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A CONSTANT DRIVE THROUGH AS THE BASIS FOR THEIR
[01:25:01]
BUSINESS.SO THOSE ARE THE REASONS I'M DENYING IT.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER STANDARD.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS, COMMISSIONERS, ANYBODY ON COMMISSIONER POPKIN, PLEASE? COMMISSIONER STANDARD THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR SECTION OF FOREST, IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE WAS A VERY INTENTIONAL RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF THE AREA, WHEREAS TO THE EAST AND AUTO ORIENTED, UM, WHERE THE EXISTING, YOU KNOW, CAR WASH IS ALREADY DOWN THE STREET, UM, SURROUNDED BY OTHER DRIVE-THROUGHS.
THIS AREA IS, IT'S ZONING FROM THE REST OF FOREST LANE AND, AND IT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE COMING IN AND OUT.
COMMISSIONER POPKIN, I'M SORRY.
WE, WE HEARD ABOUT, UH, 20% OF THAT.
YOU WANT, YOU WANNA CALL ME AND I CAN PUT YOU ON SPEAKER.
ARE YOU ABLE TO HEAR ME NOW? I THINK MY HEADPHONES ARE DYING A LITTLE BIT.
ARE YOU ABLE TO HEAR ME NOW? YES.
I'LL JUST SAY I'M IN SUPPORT BECAUSE OF THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD FEEL OF THIS AREA.
IT WAS INITIALLY ZONED AS NOT ALLOWING DRIVE-THROUGHS AND THERE ARE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS TO THE EAST AND WEST THAT DO ALLOW DRIVE-THROUGHS.
THE OTHER CAR WASH IS IN AN AREA WITH OTHER DRIVE-THROUGHS SURROUNDING IT.
AND THAT THIS AREA DOES SEEM TO HAVE A DIFFERENT INTENT WITH, UM, RESIDENCES DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET, UH, FACING, YOU KNOW, HAVING THEIR DRIVEWAYS ON FOREST LANE THERE.
IT'S, IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT FEEL IN THIS PORTION OF THE ROAD AND IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A GOOD FIT HERE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISS? COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, I WANNA THANK THE APPLICANT FOR COMING DOWN AND CONSIDERING PUTTING YOUR BUSINESS IN THIS LOCATION, I AM GOING TO SUPPORT, UH, COMMISSIONER STANDARD'S MOTION.
IT'S NOT ANYTHING AGAINST YOUR BUSINESS.
WE ALL USE CAR WASHES, BUT FOR MANY OF THE REASONS THAT COMMISSIONER STANDARD, UM, VOICED, UM, AND GOING TO SUPPORT THE MOTION, IT IS OFTENTIMES THAT WE HEAR APPLICATIONS FOR ZONING CHANGES AND WE DON'T HEAR FROM RESIDENTS AT ALL.
AND WHEN WE HAVE A COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN SO VOCALLY, UM, ENGAGED AND OPPOSED, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY, UM, CATCHES MY ATTENTION.
UM, I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF NEIGHBORHOOD SELF-DETERMINATION AND I ALSO BELIEVE IN GIVING DEFERENCE TO THE COMMISSIONER OF THE DISTRICT.
UM, THEY KNOW THEIR DISTRICT'S BETTER THAN I WOULD AND I KNOW THAT SHE WORKS HARD IN, IN TALKING TO HER NEIGHBORS AND TALKING AND WORKING HER CASES.
BUT ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT, WHEN I LOOK AT THE EXISTING ZONING, THE HISTORY OF THE ZONING IN THE PROPOSED USE IN IMMEDIATE ADJACENCY TO THE NUMBER OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A APPROPRIATE, UH, LAND USE IN THIS EXACT LOCATION, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE NEARBY LOCATIONS WHERE IT MIGHT BE A BETTER FIT.
UM, BUT THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT WE DON'T APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST IN ESTABLISHING A BUSINESS IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.
AND I THOUGH I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THIS APPLICATION, I DO WISH YOU WELL.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY, IN THE MATTER OF Z 2 12 3 39, WE HAVE A MOTION.
MY COMMISSIONER, STANDARD SECOND.
MY COMMISSIONER HOUSE WRIGHT FOR, UH, DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
IT IS 2:16 PM AND WE ARE BACK ON THE RECORD.
UH, CASE NUMBER OR ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS Z TWO 12 DASH 2 76.
AN APPLICATION FOR AN AMENDMENT TO PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT NUMBER 8 25 ON PROPERTY BOUNDED BY PALISADE DRIVE, NORTH PRAIRIE CREEK ROAD, TONAWANDA DRIVE AND GREENDALE DRIVE, AND ON THE NORTH LINE OF PALISADE DRIVE BETWEEN NORTH PRAIRIE CREEK ROAD AND GREENDALE
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DRIVE.STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL SUBJECT TO A REVISED DEVELOPMENT PLAN, A TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT PLAN, AND TR UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS.
IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK ON CASE NUMBER FOUR Z 2 12 2 76? I DON'T SEE ANYONE AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY ONLINE REGISTER SPEAKERS.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE, MR. CHAIR, DO WE HAVE A MOTION? WE DO THANK YOU IN THE MATTER OF Z 2 12 2 76.
I'LL MOVE TO KEEP THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AND HOLD THE MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT UNTIL JUNE 15TH.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR FOR YOUR MOTION.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER FOR YOUR SECOND.
WE HAVE A MOTION BY THE CHAIR, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER CARPENTER TO HOLD THE CASE UNDER ADVISEMENT UNTIL JUNE 15TH.
ANY OPPOSED? NAY, THE MOTION CARRIES WILL BE COMMISSIONERS.
COMMISSIONERS WILL KEEP MOVING TO THE SUBDIVISION DOCUMENT.
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS CONSISTENT OF CASES FIVE THROUGH 12.
MR. BBAR, GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR.
SORRY YOU CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD.
UM, THE CONSENT AGENDA CONSISTS OF EIGHT ITEM ITEM FIVE S 2 23 DASH 1 42, ITEM SIX S 2 23 DASH 1 44, ITEM SEVEN S 2 23 DASH 1 45, ITEM EIGHT S 2 23 DASH 1 46, ITEM NINE S 2 23 DASH 2 23 1 47, ITEM 10 S 2 23 DASH 1 48, ITEM 11 S 2 23 DASH 1 49 AND ITEM 12 S 2 23 DASH ONE 50.
ITEM 12 S 2 23 DASH ONE 50 HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.
THE ABOVE CASES HAVE BEEN ADVERTISED FOR HEARING AT THIS TIME.
AND A STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL SUBJECT TO COMPLIANCE WITH THE CONDITION LISTED IN THE DOCKET OR AS AMENDED AT THE HEARING.
MR. KING, WE DO HAVE TWO REGISTERED SPEAKERS ON THE FIRST TWO CASES.
I'M ASSUMING THEY'RE THE APPLICANTS AND AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
MR. BOND, ARE YOU ONLINE, SIR? I'M HERE.
HE DOES THAT IS MR. ICK ONLINE.
MR. BROWN, WE JUST, WE JUST WANT TO CONFIRM THAT YOU'RE NOT SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION TO ANY OF THESE CASES AND YOU'RE OKAY WITH US DISPOSING OF THEM IN ONE IN ONE MOTION HERE WITH ALL THE OTHER CASES? UH, YES SIR.
MR. CATHOLIC'S HERE AND I'M HERE.
PARDON ME? I SAID LYNN CATHOLIC'S HERE.
I'M JUST AVAILABLE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS.
MR. BOND, IS THAT CASE FOR YOU AS WELL, SIR? CORRECT? YES, SIR.
COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. BARB BARN CASES FIVE THROUGH 12 WITH NUMBER 12 BEING WITHDRAWN.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON? THANK YOU MR. HERE.
MR. BOARD, BOARD, TWO QUESTIONS IF I MAY.
ON ITEM SIX, UM, CASE NUMBER S 2 23 DASH 1 44, THAT'S IN PD THREE 17.
IT APPEARS ONE OF THE FRONTAGES IS ON A PRIMARY LINKAGE STREET.
IS IT CORRECT THAT DURING PERMITTING THEY'LL REVIEW THE NECESSARY, UM, REQUIREMENTS AND SETBACKS? THAT'S NOT SOMETHING TO BE INCLUDED ON THE PLAT.
[01:35:02]
WE DON'T LOOK AT THE SETBACKS AND SUCH IN THE PADDING PROCESS? YES, MA'AM.AND THEN ON ITEM NINE, UH, S 2 23 DASH 1 47, THERE'S A DART RIGHT OF WAY ADJACENCY ON THIS PROPERTY.
I DIDN'T SEE THAT INCLUDED IN ANY CONDITIONS.
ARE THERE, IS THAT ANYTHING THAT CAME UP IN STAFF'S EVALUATION THAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED? THIS, THIS IS A EXISTING LOT AND THE ONLY REASON THAT THEY REPLANTING IT BECAUSE DURING THE PROCESS OF REPLANTING, THEY WOULD LIKE TO ABANDON SOME OF THE EASEMENT AND ADD SOME NEW EASEMENT.
THE, THE LOT CONFIGURATION IS NOT CHANGING AND NOTHING ELSE IS CHANGING REGARDING THIS PLA THANK YOU.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ALL RIGHT.
SEEING NONE, DO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA? OH, COMMISSIONER HAWK.
I MOVE TO APPROVE THE SUBDIVISION DOCKET.
DOCKET IS READ INTO THE RECORD, SUBJECT TO THE COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMMISSIONS IN THE DOCKET.
COMMISSIONER HAWK, YOUR MOTION COMMISSIONER, UM, CARPENTER FOR YOUR SECOND IN DISCUSSION, SING NONE.
COMMISSIONERS WILL MOVE ON TO OUR LAST CASE, WHICH IS THE LANDMARK APPEAL.
ITEM NUMBER 13, CA 2 23 DASH 180 2 AND APPEAL OF THE LANDMARK COMMISSION'S DECISION ON A DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE TO CONSTRUCT NEW PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS ON A VACANT LOT STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS.
LANDMARK COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION IS DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
UH, COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS AN APPEAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, WHICH WAS DENIED BY THE LANDMARK COMMISSION AT ITS HEARING ON FEBRUARY 6TH, 2023.
THE DECISION OF THE LANDMARK COMMISSION IS REFLECTED IN ITS OFFICIAL MINUTES, WHICH ARE PART OF THE RECORD FOR THIS APPEAL.
THE APPELLANT IS REPRESENTED BY, WE DO NOT HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE, UM, APPELLANT AND THE LANDMARK COMMISSION IS REPRESENTED BY ASSISTANT TO THE ATTORNEY, KATHLEEN FOZ.
AT THIS TIME, WE WILL SWEAR IN THE SPEAKERS.
IF YOU COULD PLEASE STAND AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
UH, DO YOU SWEAR AND AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE COMMISSION? PLEASE ANSWER.
ANY COMMUNICATION RECEIVED BY THE CITY PLAIN COMMISSION MEMBERS PENDING THIS APPEAL HAVE BEEN COLLECTED BY THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION SECRETARY AND MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PARTIES FOR INSPECTION.
IF ANY PLAN COMMISSIONER HAS RECEIVED ANY COMMUNICATION ON THIS MATTER, PLEASE DISCLOSE IT NOW FOR THE RECORD.
UH, THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION HAS RECEIVED AND REVIEWED THE RECORD OF THIS LANDMARK COMMISSION AND EACH PARTY'S BRIEF ON THE APPEAL.
THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION MAY HEAR NEW TESTIMONY AND CONSIDER NEW EVIDENCE ONLY TO DETERMINE IF THAT TESTIMONY OR EVIDENCE WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THE HEARING BEFORE THE LANDMARK COMMISSION.
DOES EITHER PARTY HAVE ANY NEW EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY TO SUBMIT TO THE COMMISSION TODAY? THAT IS A NOTE.
BOTH SIDES HAVE PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED A COPY OF THE PROCEDURES.
THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION WILL NOW HEAR AND CONSIDER TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE CONCERNING THE PREVIOUS RECOMMENDATION, RECOMMENDATIONS, AND ACTIONS BY THE CITY STAFF AND THE LANDMARK COMMISSION AND ITS TASK FORCES.
EACH SIDE WILL BE ALLOWED 20 MINUTES FOR ITS PRESENTATION.
THE APPELLANT WILL HAVE AN ADDITIONAL FIVE MINUTES FOR REBUTTAL PRESENTATIONS WILL BE MADE BY THE APPELLANT AND COUNSEL FOR THE LANDMARK COMMISSION ONLY.
THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION MAY ASK QUESTIONS AFTER THE PRESENTATIONS.
TIME TAKEN BY THE QUESTIONS WILL NOT BE DEDUCTED FROM THE TIME ALLOTTED.
EACH COMMISSIONER WILL BE ALLOWED FIVE MINUTES TO ASK QUESTIONS DURING THE FIRST ROUND.
BE AWARE THAT THOSE FIVE MINUTES INCLUDE THE ANSWERS.
[01:40:01]
MINUTES WILL BE ALLOTTED FOR THE SECOND ROUND IF NEEDED.UH, THESE ALSO INCLUDE THE ANSWERS.
THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION SECRETARY WILL KEEP TRACK OF TIME.
IF A PARTY REQUIRES ADDITIONAL TIME TO PRESENT ITS CASE, THE PARTY SHALL REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL TIME BE GRANTED BY THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION.
IF THE COMMISSION GRANTS ONE PARTY ADDITIONAL TIME, THE OPPOSING PARTY SHALL ALSO BE GRANTED AN EQUAL TIME EXTENSION.
DO THE PARTIES HAVE ANY PRELIMINARY MATTERS TO RAISE AT THIS TIME? IF NOT, THEN WE'LL NOW HEAR THE APPELLANT'S CASE FOR 20 MINUTES.
THE APPELLANT, UH, APPARENTLY IS NOT A NO SHOW TONIGHT.
UM, SO WE'LL HEAR FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
UH, YOU MAY NEED TO KIND OF GET THAT MICROPHONE REALLY CLOSE TO YOU.
UM, SO AS IS CLEAR FROM THE RECORD, THE APPELLANT ALSO DID NOT APPEAR BEFORE LANDMARK.
UM, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS A GREAT PROJECT.
THE STANDARD IS WHETHER THE STRUCTURE IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IT'S BEING BUILT ON A, A VACANT LOT.
AND, AND SO THAT'S THE STANDARD IS FOR A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UM, I MEAN THE, THE COMMISSIONER'S, PARTICULARLY COMMISSIONER SWAN, SET OUT IN GREAT DETAIL WHAT THE REMAINING ISSUES WERE.
IT WAS CLEAR THAT THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSIONERS WAS THAT THIS WAS VERY CLOSE.
THEY WERE HOPING THAT THE, UM, THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD MAKE THOSE CHANGES AND COME BACK TO THEM.
UM, AND INSTEAD THE APPLICANT APPEALED TO THIS BOARD, THIS COMMISSION.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A VERY HIGH STANDARD TO, UH, OVERCOME THE LANDMARK'S DECISION HERE.
THE DENIAL WAS WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
THERE'S NOTHING TO STOP THE APPLICANT FROM GOING BACK ADDRESSING THE ISSUES THAT LANDMARK RAISED AND, AND COMING BACK BEFORE THAT COMMISSION AGAIN.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S THEIR BURDEN AT LANDMARK JUST AS IT'S THEIR BURDEN HERE.
THEY, UH, UH, DID NOT COME TO EITHER PLACE.
PERHAPS IF THEY WERE AT LANDMARK AND HAD BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR ADDRESS SOME OF THE COMMISSIONER'S ISSUES, IT WOULD'VE GONE DIFFERENTLY.
BUT THEY, THEY SIMPLY DID NOT COME.
UM, THERE IS NOTHING ON THE RECORD TO SHOW THAT LANDMARK EXCEEDED ITS AUTHORITY, VIOLATED ANY STATUTE OR ORDINANCE.
UM, AND THEIR DECISION WAS REASONABLY SUPPORTED BY SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD.
UH, EVEN THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF AND THE TASK FORCE TO APPROVE HAD, YOU KNOW, A WHOLE LOT OF CONDITIONS.
UH, AND I LANDMARK, IT WAS CLEAR FROM THE RECORD THERE WAS A QUESTION, YOU KNOW, CAN WE APPROVE IT WITH CONDITIONS OR DO WE THINK IT NEEDS TO COME BACK? LANDMARK CHOSE INSTEAD THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO COME BACK TO BE SURE THAT THE NEW DESIGN MET THEIR REQUIREMENTS RATHER THAN APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS THAT THE APPLICANT MIGHT NOT BE WILLING TO MEET.
UM, UH, UH, BECAUSE APPELLANT HASN'T MET HIS BURDEN, UM, LANDMARK'S DECISION SHOULD BE AFFIRMED.
UH, IS THERE QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? YES.
COMMISSIONER, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING FROM THE APPELLANT ABOUT THEIR ABSENCE TODAY? AND I HAVE NOT.
I'M NOT SURE IF, IF THEY'VE REACHED OUT.
I KNOW THEY'RE, THEY'VE TALKED TO SOME WITH STAFF, BUT SH STAFF IS SHAKING THEIR HEAD NO.
SO THAT'S A NO FROM MS. DON AND A NO FROM THE DR.
UM, I ASSUME THAT THE LANDMARK COMMISSION MADE THEIR FINDINGS ON THE BASIS OF A DESIGN THAT WAS SUBMITTED.
AND ARE WE ALLOWED TO SEE THAT DESIGN OR IS THAT MATERIAL TO OUR CONVERSATION THIS AFTERNOON? UM, I MEAN, YOU HAVE THE RECORD AND SO TO THE EXTENT THAT THE DESIGN IS IN THE RECORD, THAT LAND WAS BEFORE LANDMARK.
UM, I BELIEVE IT IS IN THE RECORD COM.
IT WAS IN, I, I LOOKED, I DIDN'T FIND IT.
YEAH, THERE'S LIKE SIX DIFFERENT FILES THERE.
I THINK IT MIGHT, MIGHT BE IN ONE.
UH, COMMISSIONER YOUNG, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION, SIR? NO.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS, UH, DON'T SEE COMMISSIONER HAMPTON ONLINE IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION.
[01:45:01]
FROM OUR FOLKS ONLINE? YES.UM, CAN WE GET A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE REASONS FOR THE LANDMARK COMMISSION DENIAL? UH, UH, YES.
UM, BIG ISSUE WAS THE FOUNDATION.
UH, THE FOUNDATION, UH, I THINK STAFF MAY NEED TO ASSIST WITH THIS, BUT IT'S, SOME OF IT IS IN THE, THE BRIEF.
I THINK THE TWO ISSUES THAT COMMISSIONER SWAN PRIMARILY RAISED WERE, WERE THE FOUNDATION.
UM, AND THEN DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT, YEAH, EXCUSE ME, IT'S, YEAH, THE FIRST CONDITION, OR THE FIRST ISSUE WAS THE FOUNDATION.
THE TOPOGRAPHY OF 10TH STREET IS VERY HILLY AND THE APPLICANT HAD LEVELED THE LOT.
UH, THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS A LITTLE FURTHER ALONG IN THE PROCESS.
UM, AND THE SECOND WAS THE DESIGN OF THE PORCH.
THE D THE DESIGN OF THE PORCH.
SO THEY PRIMARILY WAS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE STYLE OF THE 10TH STREET HISTORIC HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO THE REASON FOR THE DENIAL RELATES TO THE DESIGN OF THE PROPOSED BUILDING AND HOW IT RELATES TO THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE, THE AREA.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON ONLY AT, AT THIS POINT, ONLY QUESTIONS TO MS. FO PLEASE.
AND MS. FONZ, I BELIEVE IT'S IN OUR RECORD.
UM, THE APPLICANT'S SUBMITTAL, I BELIEVE IT BELIEVE IS ON PAGE 2 37 OF OUR CASE REPORT.
I THINK I HEARD A QUESTION OR, UM, I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT THE RECOMMENDATION FROM LANDMARK HAD TO DO BOTH WITH THE FOUNDATION, BUT ALSO THE RELATIONSHIP OF HOW THE FINISHED FLOOR RELATED TO GRADE, WHICH WAS A, UM, FEATURE AND A SIGNIFICANT CHARACTERISTIC OF THE 10TH STREET HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND SIMILARLY WITH THE PORCH, IT WAS THE WAY THAT THE PORCH RELATED TO BOTH THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES AS WELL AS THE CONTEXT OF, UM, HOW THOSE PORCHES RELATE ALONG THE BLOCK FACE, WHICH AGAIN, IS ONE OF THE DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS OF THE 10TH STREET HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IS THAT CORRECT? YES, FOR BOTH.
THE ISSUE WAS THAT THERE'S VERY SPECIFIC DESIGN REQUIREMENTS AND COMPATIBILITY ISSUES WITH THE FOUNDATION AND THE WAY THE FOUNDATIONS ARE BUILT IN 10TH STREET AND THE GRADE AND 10TH STREET AND WITH THE LOOK OF THE PORCHES.
COMMISSIONERS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. VA? OKAY.
UH, THE CITY PLAIN COMMISSION MAY CHOOSE TO DEBATE AND DECIDE THIS MATTER TODAY OR MAY HEAR THE PRESENTATIONS AND DELAY THE DEBATE OR THE VOTE ON THE MATTER IF ADDITIONAL TIME IS REQUIRED TO PROPERLY DECIDE THE CASE, A MOTION TO UPHOLD OR OVERTURN THE LANDMARK COMMISSION REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE.
WHEN THE CITY PLAIN COMMISSION MAKES THIS DECISION ON THIS APPEAL, A RESOLUTION UPHOLDING OR OVERTURNING THE LANDMARK COMMISSION WILL BE ENTERED INTO THE MINUTES AS PART OF THE RECORD.
NOW THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, UH, WE MUST MAKE A DECISION THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION MAY REVERSE OR AFFIRM IN WHOLE OR IN PART, OR MODIFY THE DECISION OF THE LANDMARK COMMISSION OR THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION MAY REMAND A CASE TO THE LANDMARK COMMISSION FOR FURTHER PROCEEDINGS.
THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION MUST DECIDE MUST, PARDON ME, MUST GIVE DEFERENCE TO THE LANDMARK COMMISSION'S DECISION AND MAY NOT SUBSTITUTE ITS JUDGMENT FOR THE LANDMARK COMMISSION'S JUDGMENT.
THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION MUST AFFIRM THE LANDMARK COMMISSION DECISION UNLESS IT FINDS THAT IT, NUMBER ONE, VIOLATE VIOLATES A STATUTORY OR ORDINANCE PROVISION EXCEEDS THE LANDMARK COMMISSION'S AUTHORITY OR WAS NOT REASONABLY SUPPORTED BY SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE CONSIDERING THE EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD.
NOW QUESTIONS FOR STAFF COMMISSIONERS.
COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER POPKIN, DID YOU HAVE A, A QUESTION FOR STAFF NOW? OR YOU CAN OPEN IT UP? I, YES.
I NOTICED THAT THE LANDMARK COMMISSION SHOWS RATHER THAN TO ADD A LOT OF CONDITIONS TO THEIR APPROVAL, UM, THEY CHOSE INSTEAD TO DENY.
W WOULD YOU CATEGORIZE THE DENIAL IN PART DUE TO THE SIGNIFICANT NATURE OF THE CHANGES THAT WOULD NEED TO BE MADE TO, UM, COMPLY WITH THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD?
[01:50:02]
I WOULD AGREE THAT THE, UH, REASON FOR DENIAL WAS THE FACT THAT THEY FELT THE CONDITIONS IF, WELL, TOTALLY TO GO BACK A LITTLE BIT, WHAT THEY REALLY DESIRED WAS FOR THE APPLICANT TO BE PRESENT BECAUSE THEY WANTED THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THEIR CONCERNS AND TO DISCUSS THE CHANGES WITH HIM.DUNN, JUST ONE, I GUESS FOLLOW UP.
I, IS IT CORRECT THAT LANDMARK IS LIMITED IN THE NUMBER OF ACTIONS THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO TAKE WHEN A CASE IS BEFORE THEM AND THAT A DENIAL WITH PREJUDICE IS, UM, UTILIZED WHEN THERE IS A ANTICIPATION THAT A PROJECT WILL COME BACK BEFORE THE BODY? YES, THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON, THANK YOU.
SO THE APPEAL WAS PUT FORTH, BUT THE APPLICANT FOR THE APPEAL HAS NEVER SHOWN UP.
IS THAT WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING? THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS SEEING C NOW DO I HAVE A MOTION COMMISSIONER YOUNG, UH, YES.
MR. CHAIR IN THE MATTER OF, UH MM-HMM
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER YOUNG FOR YOUR MOTION.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER FOR YOUR SECOND COMMENTS.
UM, IN READING THE LANDMARK COMMISSIONER COMMISSION'S RATIONALE FOR DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE, UM, NOT HAVING THE BENEFIT OF AN ARCHITECTURE BACKGROUND, A LOT OF IT WAS GREEK TO ME, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DID COME THROUGH QUITE CLEARLY IS, UH, THE FAILURE OF THE PROPOSAL TO, AS I THINK THE LANDMARK COMMISSIONER PUT IT, MEET THE GROUND IN THE WAY THAT OTHER, UH, STRUCTURES IN THE AREA DID.
THAT IS TO SAY THAT THE SLOPING GROUND, UH, FOR THE TYPICAL STRUCTURE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WOULD BE MET BY HAVING THE FOUNDATION AT A HIGHER ELEVATION, UH, ON THE DOWN SLOPE SIDE AND A LOWER ELEVATION ON THE UPSLOPE SIDE, SUCH THAT THE FOUNDATION WAS FLAT EVEN THOUGH THE GROUND WAS SLOPING AND THAT THE APPLICANT IN THIS CASE HAD APPARENTLY WITHOUT AUTHORITY LEVELED THE LOT SO THAT HIS PROPOSAL WOULD NOT HAVE THAT, UH, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE TO IT.
THAT WAS VERY CLEAR TO ME AS A LAYMAN.
I ALSO GATHERED THAT THERE WERE REASONS RELATING TO THE COLUMNS ON THE FRONT OF THE PORCH AND THEIR INTERACTION WITH THE WING WALLS.
UH, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE BEEN MORE CLEARLY ARTICULATED HAD THE APPLICANT BEEN PRESENT.
BUT IN ANY EVENT, I DON'T THINK IT, UM, UH, TRIGGERED ANY OF OUR STATUTORY GROUNDS FOR REVERSAL.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER YOUNG.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY.
IN THE MATTER OF CA TWO 23,182, WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER YOUNG SECOND BY COMMISSIONER CARPENTER TO CLOSE UP OF THE HEARING AND AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE LANDMARK COMMISSION.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
THE OPPOSED AYES HAVE IT COMMISSIONERS IS TWO 40.
CAN I GET A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SO MOVE.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER RUBEN.
SECOND, NOT COMMISSIONER CARPENTER.
UH, I WANT TO THANK ALL THE STAFF PARTICULAR COMMISSION, UH, MR. BBAR TODAY FOR THE HERCULEAN EFFORT TO GET THESE PLAS ON OUR AGENDA TODAY.