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[ Landmark Commission Meeting on August 7, 2023.]
PRESENT.WHAT'S THAT? COMMISSIONER ANDERSON PRESENT.
OUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESSES, WERE GONNA VOTE ON THE MEETINGS FROM OUR LAST MEETING.
AND THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE FROM THE, UM, DOCUMENT SENT OUT TO YOU IN YOUR EMAIL IF EITHER ELAINE OR COMMISSIONER SWAN COULD EXPLAIN THAT THAT PROBLEM THAT WAS FOUND IN THE MINUTES AND IT'S BEEN ALTERED.
JUST, JUST WANT ME TO WELL, WE HAVE TO TELL THEM SO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE VOTING TO APPROVE.
SHOULD THEY VOTE TO APPROVE
THE, DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL TO READ BOTH THE, LIKE WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE AND WHAT IS REPLACING IT? IT'S NOT THAT WOULD BE FINE.
YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T RECORD ACCURATELY WHAT YOU HAD SAID AS YOUR MOTION.
UH, THE, THE, THE MINUTES THAT YOU RECEIVED SAID FOR ITEM SEVEN ON, UH, DISCUSS DISCUSSION ITEM 2 5 0 8 PARK AVENUE, UH, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO EXTEND EXISTING ELEVATOR OVERRUN ON ROOFTOP BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 6 16 23 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION, UH, THAT EXTERIOR CLADDING OF EXTENSION MATCH THE EXISTING BRICK AND COLOR AND COURSING COMPOSITION MATERIALS MAY VARY.
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA IN SECTION THREE A THREE 3.3 A PERTAINING TO ROOFS.
THE STANDARD IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A 0.501 G SIX C ROMAN I FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION AND THE LANGUAGE THAT WE PASSED IN THE MEETING.
AND THE MOTION THAT WE VOTED ON, UH, ITEM SEVEN WAS NO, THAT'S THE MOTION YOU MADE.
THAT WE VOTED ON IN, IN OTHER WORDS, THAT, THAT WAS PRESENTED AT THE LAST MEETING AND THAT WE ALL HEARD AT THE LAST MEETING WAS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO EXTEND EXISTING ELEVATOR OVERRUN ON ROOFTOP BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 6 16 20 23, WITH A FINDING OF FACT THAT THE PROPOSED HORIZONTAL METAL SIDING WILL PROVIDE A CLEAR DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN THE OLD AND THE NEW AND WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES OF THE STRUCTURE.
SO, ARE THERE ANY OTHER ISSUES WITH THE MINUTES THAT ANYBODY WANTS TO BRING UP, OR DOES SOMEONE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THEM? I HAVE A MOTION.
SECOND, UH, HAS TO DIDN'T FIRST
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
OUR, OUR MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
UM, NEXT, UH, OUR COMMISSIONER ACY WILL HAVE SOME MOTIONS TO MAKE REGARDING HOW WE WILL ORDER OUR CASES AS WE HEAR THEM.
FIRST I'M GONNA GO THROUGH AND, UM, UH, READ OUT WHO I HAVE SPEAKERS FORMS, UH, FROM IN PERSON TODAY IS NORMAN ALSTON, JOHN HUTCHINGS, WILLIS WINTERS.
UM, IF YOUR NAME WASN'T CALLED THEN WE NEED, UH, OKAY.
SHE'S GOT YELLOW STREET AND THEN NANCY.
YEAH, BUT SHE'S THE ONE HERE FOR CONSENT, RIGHT? OKAY.
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THANK YOU.UH, FIRST, UH, I MOVE TO APPROVE, UH, SOME OF OUR CONSENT ITEMS. SO MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS THREE THROUGH SIX AND EIGHT THROUGH 11.
ONE THING I SOMETIMES FORGET TO ASK, ARE ANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON A CONSENT ITEM BECAUSE YOU HAD NEW INFORMATION TO PRESENT, OR YOU'RE JUST HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS? IF YOU'RE JUST HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING 'CAUSE WE'RE ABOUT TO VOTE ON 'EM ANYWAY.
IT'S CONSENT TO ITEMS THREE THROUGH SIX AND EIGHT THROUGH 11.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.
WE ALREADY THE MOVE TO APPROVE COMMISSIONER FELL, SO, OH, OKAY.
ALRIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY, AYE.
ALL THOSE CONSENT ITEMS HAVE BEEN APPROVED AS, AS PRESENTED TO US BY THE STAFF, AND THEN WE HAVE SOME INDIVIDUAL ONES THAT WE MUST DO SEPARATELY BECAUSE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION HAVE TO RECUSE THEMSELVES ON THEM.
SO FIRST, UM, WE'LL TAKE CONSENT.
ITEM ONE, COMMISSIONER GUEST WILL NEED TO STEP OUT, OKAY? OKAY.
I MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM ONE SECOND.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER RENO.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER GUESS CAN STEP BACK IN? YES.
I'M SORRY, MISS, YOU APPROVED IT FOR
SO JUST WANTED TO LET HER KNOW WHO SAID THAT IT.
NEXT, WE'LL, UH, TAKE UP CONSENT.
COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS WILL NEED TO STEP OUT.
YOU STILL HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION.
SAY, MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM TWO, SECOND.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ONLY OPPOSED, THEN THAT ONE IS CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AS WELL.
NEXT, WE'LL DO, ALL RIGHT, NEXT, WE'LL GO ON AHEAD THEN.
ITEM SEVEN, COMMISSIONER, UM, ANDERSON AND CHAIRMAN MONTGOMERY WILL NEED TO STEP OUT.
CHAIRMAN MONTGOMERY WILL ALSO REMAIN OUTSIDE WHILE WE TAKE COURTESY REVIEW NUMBER ONE AFTER THIS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TAKING UP NOW.
YOU WANT ME TO, I COULD SET UP THE REST OF THE AGENDA THAT WAY THEN.
RIGHT? SO WE DON'T VOTE ON MOVING THEM, DO WE? RIGHT.
SO I'LL JUST ANNOUNCE THE AGENDA THEN.
FOR THIS AFTERNOON, WE'RE GONNA START WITH CONSENT ITEM SEVEN, FOLLOWED BY COURTESY REVIEW ONE, FOLLOWED BY DISCUSSION ITEM TWO.
THEN WE WILL GO ON AHEAD AND TAKE DISCUSSION.
BUT I'M TAKING THE PERSON THAT'S
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HERE IN PERSON FIRST.SO DO, DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THE MOTION TO REORDER OUR SCHEDULE IN THAT WAY? SECOND.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
NOW MOVE TO DISCUSSION AND THEN THE COURTESY REVIEW.
I HAVE TO REUSE ON BOTH OF THOSE
LET'S GO AHEAD AND START WITH CONSENT ITEM SEVEN.
I'M MARCUS WATSON, REPRESENTING STAFF CONSENT.
ITEM NUMBER SEVEN IS 47 2 7, I'M SORRY, 47 0 2 SWISS AVENUE IN PEAK SUBURBAN EDITION NEIGHBORHOOD.
HISTORIC DISTRICT CA 2 23 DASH 4 7 4 MW.
THIS IS A REQUEST TO ONE TO AMEND CA TWO 12 SLASH 2 32 LC WITH A REVISED LANDSCAPE PLAN.
AND TWO, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO EXTEND THE EXISTING FENCE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER WHERE THE DEMOLITION AND REMOVAL OF THE PREVIOUS GARAGE WAS ALREADY APPROVED.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT FOR THE FIRST REQUEST, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO AMEND CA 2 12 2 SLASH 2 32 LC WITH A REVISED LANDSCAPE PLAN BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND MATERIALS SUBMITTED 7 6 23.
THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA, SECTIONS 2.3 AND 2.6, AND CITY CODE 51, SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS.
FOR ITEM NUMBER TWO, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO EXTEND THE EXISTING FENCE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER WHERE THE DEMOLITION AND REMOVAL OF THE PREVIOUS GARAGE WAS APPROVED, BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND MATERIALS SUBMITTED 7 6 23.
THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SECTION 2.9, SECTION 2.13, SECTION 2.14 AND SECTION 2.15.
CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.51 G SIX C ROMAN AT ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS.
AND THE APPLICANT IS, UH, ONLINE.
ALL RIGHT, TASK FORCE RE, OH, EXCUSE ME.
TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO AMEND CA TWO 12 DASH 2 3 2 LC FOR A LANDSCAPE PLAN BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.
TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION NUMBER TWO, THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO EXTEND THE EXISTING FENCE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER WHERE THE DEMOLITION AND REMOVAL OF THE PREVIOUS GARAGE WAS APPROVED, BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.
WE HAVE, UM, WE'LL GO ON AHEAD AND START WITH, UH, THE APPLICANT, MR. GRABLE.
UM, ELAINE, WILL YOU REMIND ME HOW MANY MINUTES HE HAS TO SPEAK? THREE.
YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES, SIR.
IF YOU NEED ADDITIONAL TIME AT THE END, JUST LET US KNOW.
I I WON'T USE ALL THREE MINUTES.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS AS YOU CONTINUE YOUR DISCUSSION AFTERWARDS,
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PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL ON ME.UH, MARCUS AND I WERE ABLE TO CONNECT BETWEEN THE STAFF READING BRIEFING, WHICH I LISTENED TO THIS MORNING.
AND NOW, UH, A COUPLE OF CLARIFICATIONS FROM THE DISCUSSION EARLIER.
UH, THERE IS MONDO GRASS IN WHAT, WHAT, WHAT JIM AND SARAH NEXT DOOR CALLED NUFF EAST'S GARDEN.
HOWEVER, IT'S TO THE SIDE OF OUR LOT RATHER THAN IN FRONT.
THIS IS A REQUEST TO, TO EXTEND THAT INTO THE AREA UNDER THE WHITE OAKS THAT ARE RIGHT THERE BETWEEN OUR, OUR, UH, OUR FRONT FENCE AND THE FRONT CURB.
SO, JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT.
MARCUS HAD A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION ON THAT, WHICH I WANTED TO CLARIFY.
SECOND, UH, THE FEATHERED GRASS.
WE DO HAVE SOME OF THOSE APPROVED IN, IN, UH, PROXIMITY TO THE HOUSE ALREADY.
I DO UNDERSTAND THE VISIBILITY CONCERNS.
I WOULD SAY IT'S BARELY TALLER THAN THE PINK NEWLY THAT'S ALLOWED IN UNDER THE CURRENT CA FROM 2022 TO WRAP AROUND THE FRONT PORCH OF THE HOUSE.
AND IT'S REALLY ONLY SOME, UH, I'M LOOKING AT SOME HERE IN AUSTIN.
IT, IT'S REALLY ONLY SOME TALL FLOWER LIKE APPENDAGES THAT STICK UP WHERE THE BUSHY PART OF THE PLANT IS MUCH, MUCH LOWER.
THAT'S ALSO A PART OUTSIDE THE FENCE THAT SLOPES DOWNWARD FROM WHERE THE HOUSE IS.
I DON'T WANT TO DISTURB THE VIEW.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A, I APPRECIATE IT BEING RAISED AS A TOPIC.
AND OUR TASK FORCE INCLUDES LANDSCAPE EXPERTS WHO LOOKED AT THIS AND THE PRESIDENT OF OUR PEAKS ASSOCIATION WHO ALL VOTED TO APPROVE IT.
SO THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
AND, UH, AND I RESPECTFULLY HOPE YOU WOULD BE AS WELL.
AGAIN, HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, BUT THAT'S REALLY ALL I WANTED TO ADD.
ALRIGHT, I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL SPEAKERS SIGNED UP FOR THIS TODAY.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I, YEAH.
MR. GRABLE, UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS KIND OF A LEGACY GARDEN, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S RIGHT.
UM, NFI IS THE GRANDMOTHER NAME OF HENRIETTA I, WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE ABOUT 80 YEARS, ABOUT 25 OF THAT OVERLAPPING WITH, WITH JIM AND SARAH.
SO THEY GOT TO KNOW HER VERY WELL AND WHAT, WHAT, I HAD NO IDEA WHEN SHE PLANTED IT, BUT IT, IT WASN'T YESTERDAY.
WHAT, UH, WHAT DID, UH, WHAT PLANT MATERIALS DID SHE HAVE IN THE GARDEN WHEN SHE WAS TENDING IT? UH, IT'S STILL REALLY THE SAME.
THERE ARE SOME MID-SIZE SHRUBS, AND THERE ARE, I BELIEVE, TWO HACKBERRY TREES.
I WAS JUST WONDERING IF WHAT SHE HAD THAT IN TERMS OF GRASSES OR, OR FORBES.
UM, IN OTHER WORDS, DID SHE GARDEN FLOWERS OR, OR ANYTHING LIKE, IS IT SHADY? I GOT, I COULDN'T GET A GOOD SENSE OF THAT.
AND IN, IN FACT, I THINK THE SHADE THAT THE HACKBERRY AND THE TALLER SHRUBS PROVIDE WAS, WAS PART OF JIM'S CONCERN WITH IT.
UM, THAT THAT'S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST FEATURE.
IT'S NOT, DON'T THINK OF IT AS A TRADITIONAL 1906 FLOWER GARDEN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND, AND, UM, I'M A LITTLE BIT CURIOUS ABOUT THE FENCE PLACEMENT.
DOES THAT FENCE PLACEMENT CORRESPOND TO ANY KIND OF SETBACK IN THE ORDINANCE OR ANYTHING? OR WAS IT SIMPLY WHAT WAS WE COULD HAVE, WE COULD UNDER THE ORDINANCE AND, AND, UH, ZONING, PUT THE FENCE ON THE PROPERTY LINE WE AGREED AT, AT JIM AND SARAH'S REQUEST THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO LOCATE, LOCATE IT ABOUT SIX FEET INTO OUR PROPERTY SO THAT WE COULD LEAVE THIS PORTION UNDISTURBED.
OH, NO, I MEAN, IT, IT CERTAINLY, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE OUTSIDE OF ANY PART OF THE ORDINANCE.
IT JUST SEEMED LIKE AN UNUSUAL PLACEMENT, SOMEWHAT DISTANT FROM THE SIDEWALK.
UH, I WOULD'VE EXPECTED IT ACTUALLY BE TO BE CLOSER.
I'M TRYING TO THINK IF I HAVE ANY, ANY OTHER IMMEDIATE CONCERNS.
THE, THE, THE, UH, FEATHER, UH, OH GOSH, WHAT'S IT CALLED? FEATHER FEATHER REED GRASS FEATHER REED GRASS.
UM, NOW THAT'S A CLUMPING GRASS, RIGHT.
AND IS IT CUT DOWN ANNUALLY? IS THAT THE PLAN TO CUT IT DOWN AT THE END OF THE GROWING SEASON OR, YES, ABSOLUTELY.
WE, WE PLANTED THE INITIAL PINK MULEY AND FEATHER REED FROM THE 2022 PLAN LAST YEAR AND CUT IT ALL BACK THIS WINTER, AND THAT WOULD BE OUR PLAN GOING FORWARD AS WELL.
AND WHEN IT'S, UH, IS IT, UH, IT'S A CLUMPING GRASS, BUT ARE THE CLUMPS EXPECTED TO EXPAND, UH, SPREAD TO WHERE THEY MIGHT EVENTUALLY MEET EACH OTHER? NO, I MEAN, IT COULD, THEY'LL SEND OFF, UH, OTHER CHUTES, BUT NO, WE'VE BEEN PULLING THOSE AND PLAN TO CONTINUE DOING SO.
AND WHEN THE PLANT IS MATURE, UM, IT REACHES A MATURE HEIGHT OF THE GROWING SEASON.
HOW HIGH IS THE, HOW HIGH IS THE LEAF PORTION OF THE PLANT? THE, YEAH, THE, THE MAIN GRASS PORTION IS APPROXIMATELY THREE FEET, WHICH IS ALSO WHAT THE PINK MULE GROWS TO.
SO, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT REALLY THE ONLY THE, THE, UH, FLOWER SEED HEADS EXTEND ABOVE THAT? CORRECT.
AND IS IT, UH, IS THE PROPOSAL THAT THE, UH, FEATHER RE GRASS BE PLANTED ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE FENCE? UH, SO WE'VE
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GOT A STRIP OUTSIDE THE FENCE, UH, WHERE WE HAD MET THE EXISTING BACKYARD FENCE.SO WE'VE LEFT, UH, THERE'S NO SIDEWALK ON OUR ANNEX AVENUE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, UH, SO PROBABLY 10 FEET WIDE IS THE STRIP THERE, AND WE JUST WANNA PLACE THEM, YOU KNOW, PERIODICALLY EVERY SEVERAL FEET IN THAT AREA IS DRAWN IN THE PLAN.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
SO YOU'RE, I GUESS MY QUESTION WAS ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, IS IT PROPOSED THAT IT BE SPACE AT REGULAR INTERVALS ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE FRONT FACING PORTION, PORTION OF THE FENCE? UM, I'M GONNA LOOK AT THE, LIKE, THE WAY THAT YOU WOULD PLACE, SAY THAT THE WAY THAT YOU WOULD PLACE HEDGE PLANTS, FOR EXAMPLE.
YEAH, I, LET ME LOOK AT THE DRAWING AND MARCUS, IF YOU HAVE IT HANDY, THAT'D BE HELPFUL TOO.
BUT I BELIEVE WE JUST PROPOSED THOSE DOWN THE SIDE.
I'M REALLY JUST TRYING TO GET AN IMPRESSION OF WHAT KIND OF DENSITY, UH, SPACING, WHAT KIND OF RESULTING DENSITY YOU WOULD GET ACROSS, BECAUSE, UH, WE'RE REALLY, I'M, I'M JUST CONCERNED WITH VISUAL IMPACT A LITTLE BIT WITH THE MODERNITY OF THE, UH, PLANT MATERIALS CHOICE, WHICH SEEMS A LITTLE BIT, UM, CONTEMPORARY FOR THE, THE HOUSE, BUT YEAH, IT'S A NATIVE PLANT.
UM, AND I DO, I'M LOOKING AT THE DRAWING.
WE DO SHOW THEM OUTSIDE THE FENCE AROUND THE SIDE AND THE FRONT, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR RUNNING THIS STATEMENT THERE.
UM, I, I, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE OVERLY MODERN GIVEN THAT IT IS A NATIVE TEXAS PLANT.
AND, UH, AND IF THAT WERE A CONCERN, THIS IS SOMETHING, THIS IS A PLANT THAT THIS COMMISSION ALREADY APPROVED IN THE 2022 CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
I KNOW, YOU KNOW, NO ONE'S PERFECT AND, AND, UH, THINGS CAN, CAN HAPPEN AT ONE POINT AND VERSUS ANOTHER, BUT GIVEN THAT ON THIS EXACT PROPERTY LESS THAN TWO YEARS AGO, WE HAD APPROVAL FOR THAT PLANT, I WOULD, I WOULD BE SKEPTICAL OF A, UH, DENIAL AT THIS POINT BASED ON THAT.
ANY ADDITIONAL FURTHER, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN? I HAVE NO QUESTION.
UM, MADAM CHAIR IN THE MATTER OF 47 0 2 SWISS, THAT BEING CA 2 2 3 DASH 4 7 4 M W I MOVE THAT WE, UM, APPROVE BOTH ITEMS ONE AND TWO, UH, FOR THE REASONS STATED AND FOR THE PRE PRESERVATION CRITERIA CITED.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA.
ANY OPPOSED? THIS MOTION CARRIES.
AND WITH THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON CAN RETURN.
WE, UH, WE'LL TAKE UP COURTESY REVIEW NUMBER ONE.
RHONDA, DO YOU WANNA GO AHEAD AND OKAY.
I WAS WAITING FOR THEM TO RETURN.
RHONDA DUNN ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF PRESENTING COURTESY REVIEW ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 37 50 COTTON BOWL PLAZA IN THE FAIR PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE CASE NUMBER IS CR 2 23 DASH 0 0 5 R D.
THE REQUEST IS, IT'S A COURTESY REVIEW, AND THE REQUEST IS TO EXTEND FRONT, IT SHOULD BE WEST FACADE OF STADIUM FOR CIRCULATION AND SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE PROPOSAL TO EXTEND FRONT WEST FACADE OF STADIUM FOR CIRCULATION AND SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN, AS WELL AS ANY ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE SUBMITTED FOR FINAL LANDMARK COMMISSION REVIEW.
OUR FIRST SPEAKER WILL BE, YOU WANT ME TO DO THE TASK FORCE? OH, YES.
TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION, COURTESY REVIEW, NO FORMAL ACTION TAKEN, COMMENTS ONLY, SUPPORTIVE COMMENT, OR CHANGES BEING CONSIDERED FOR THE NORTH FACADE.
FIRST WE'LL TAKE UP, MR. ALSTON, DO YOU PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH TODAY? I DO INDEED.
I'M NORMAN ALSTON, 5 0 6 MONTE VISTA, DALLAS.
I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE YOUR MICROPHONE ON, SIR.
IS THE LIGHT ON THERE? IT IS NOW.
OH, I USUALLY DON'T HAVE TROUBLE BEING HEARD, BUT, OKAY.
I'M NORMAN ALSTON, 5 0 6 MONTE VISTA.
I AM, UH, A PRESERVATION ARCHITECT CONSULTANT TO, UH, OVERLAND ARCHITECTS WHO ARE THE LEAD
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DESIGNERS ON THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE COTTON BOWL.I HAVE WITH ME TODAY, JOHN HUTCHINGS, PRINCIPAL AT OVERLAND, THE LEAD DESIGNERS.
WE ALSO HAVE WITH US WILLIS WINTERS.
MANY OF YOU WILL KNOW MR. WINTERS.
HE IS A FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE PARKS REC DEPARTMENT, AND, UH, CURRENTLY, UH, CONSULTING WITH J JE DUNN, THE, THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT FIRM THAT HAS BEEN RETAINED TO HELP US EXECUTE THIS PROJECT.
THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF LAST MONTH'S COURTESY REVIEW WHERE WE CAME AND TOOK, UH, UH, REC, UH, TOOK COMMENTS, AND ALL FROM THE COMMISSION.
IT'S OUR EFFORT TO ENGAGE THE COMMISSION IN, UH, UH, VETTING THE DETAILS OF THIS VERY LARGE, UH, AND IMPORTANT PROJECT.
DUNN EXPLAINED, IT'S, IT'S ROOTED IN, UH, NEEDS FOR, UH, JUST FUNCTION AND SAFETY, UH, ISSUES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN, THAT HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM FOR THE COTTON BOWL THAT WE CAN, WE CAN, UH, DOCUMENT BACK INTO THE 1960S.
UH, YOU'VE HAVE, YOU, YOU, THIS, THERE SHOULD BE, WILL THERE BE A PRE, WILL THERE BE SLIDES THAT WERE SUBMITTED WITH, OR DO YOU HAVE THEM? HAVE Y'ALL SEEN THE, WELL, OKAY, THERE'S THAT, BUT THERE WAS A PACKAGE SUBMITTED WITH THE C OF A YES.
IF YOU WANTED TO LOOK AT IT HERE, THE, UM, THAT, THAT WAS, WHEN THAT WAS SUBMITTED, THERE WAS AN UPDATE IN SOME AREAS WITH THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH.
UH, MY APOLOGIES TO THE, UH, THOSE ONLINE.
I DID, UH, SUBMIT A DRAWING, UH, TODAY AS I CAME IN THAT THOSE WHO ARE PRESENT CAN SEE WITH A FEW OTHER DETAIL UPDATES ON IT, UH, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT NECESSARILY IT'S AN ONGOING PROCESS AS WE DEVELOP THIS DESIGN AND WORK WITH Y'ALL AND THE HISTORICAL COMMISSION, UH, TO COME UP WITH A DESIGN THAT WE CAN GET, UH, APPROVED AND PERMITTED.
UH, AND THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS IS SORT OF WHAT'S DRIVING OUR ABBREVIATED SCHEDULE, WHICH, UH, WE NEED TO TRY TO GET UNDER CONSTRUCTION IN NOVEMBER OF THIS YEAR.
AND SO WE'RE KIND OF UP AGAINST IT HERE.
THE PACKAGE YOU'VE SEEN, UH, DOES DETAIL THE, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COTTON BOWL OVER THE YEARS.
WE ARE, WE ARE, UH, FOCUSED ON THE 19 48, 19 49 ADDITIONS THAT WERE DONE.
UH, WHAT WE REFER TO AS THE HOUSE THAT DO BUILT, THAT WERE DONE IN RESPONSE TO THE LARGE CROWDS THAT WERE COMING OUT TO THE COTTON BOWL, TO WATCH OAK WALKER PLAY FOR S M U.
THAT GAVE US PRETTY MUCH THE THIRD DIMENSION LOOK OF THE COTTON BOWL THAT WE'VE ALL KNOWN SINCE THAT TIME.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE BEING RESPONSIVE TO IN THE DESIGN.
UM, AS WE NOTED, THE INTENTION HERE IN A BRIEF SUMMARY, UM, IS THE, THE, UH, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE TOP LEFT PHOTO ON THE SCREEN THERE, THAT WAS THE 1948 APPEARANCE.
UH, GIVE MR. ALSTON TWO MORE MINUTES.
CAN I GET A SECOND? SECOND? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.
I'M JUST NO GOOD WITH TIME TIMEFRAMES.
UH, BUT BRIEFLY, THAT'S WHAT IT, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN 1992.
THE CENTRAL PORTION THAT YOU CAN SEE WAS MOVED OUT ABOUT 20 FEET TO CREATE NEW, UH, SPACES BEHIND THERE.
THEY ESSENTIALLY REPLICATED THE ORIGINAL FACADE, MAINTAINING THE ORIGINAL FACADE ON THE INSIDE PLACES WHERE THERE ARE PLACES YOU CAN STILL SEE IT.
UH, THE SIDEWALLS WERE NOT, UH, UH, TOUCHED AT THAT TIME.
OUR PROPOSAL, AS YOU WILL SEE, IS TO TAKE THE SIDEWALLS AND MOVE THEM OUT TO REESTABLISH THE, UM, UH, RELATION, THE ORIGINAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL TALL CENTER FACADE AND THE, THE WING FACADES AS THEY WERE.
THAT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITIES YOU SEE HERE, WHERE THE, UH, YELLOW, WELL, OKAY.
UH, ANYWAY, IT, IT ALLOWS US TO ENLARGE THE CONCOURSES SUBSTANTIALLY, UH, AND, AND GET MUCH GREATER, UH, MOVEMENT AND, UH, SAFETY FOR THE OCCUPANTS OF A COTTON BOWL.
UM, IN DOING THAT, WE, UH, YEAH, IF YOU COULD STOP THERE, THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD VIEW.
UH, IN DOING THAT, WE HAVE, WE HAVE, UH, UH, BEEN USED INSPIRATION FROM THE ORIGINAL, UH, 1948 FACADE, HAVE LOWERED IT TO HELP DIFFERENTIATE IT FROM THE ORIGINAL CONDITION AND MOVED IT OUT AND KEPT IT AS TRANSPARENT AS POSSIBLE.
WITH THE IDEA OF BEING THAT THE 48TH FACADE IS STILL BACK THERE, STILL READILY VISIBLE FROM ALL PERSPECTIVES.
I THINK WE'RE ABLE, FOR THOSE WHO COULD ATTEND THE SITE VISIT LAST WEEK, UH, I THINK YOU COULD SEE HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK.
UM, AND THAT'S BASICALLY THE CONCEPT.
NOW, THE, THE DRAWING THAT I HANDED OUT TODAY HAS TWO
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MODIFICATIONS TO IT.ONE IS WE RECOGNIZE THE, THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE STAIRS THAT WERE AT, THAT IN THE CENTER OF THE MOVED WALL, WHERE WE SHOW, UH, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES GOING TO THE GROUND.
THE DRAWING YOU HAVE SHOWS A NEW, THAT'S YOUR TIME, SIR.
WELL, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO GIVE HIM ONE MORE MINUTE.
THE DRAWING YOU HAVE ADDS TWO THINGS.
ONE IS, THERE'S, THERE IS NOW AN ENTRANCE TO THE STADIUM AT THAT LOCATION.
THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM TO RECREATE THESE STAIRS THAT WERE THERE, UH, TRADITIONALLY, UH, BECAUSE, UH, THE DRAWING WILL ALSO SHOW THAT THERE'S OTHER EQUIPMENT AND THINGS THAT HAPPEN THERE THAT JUST DON'T LET US BRING, BRING, UH, FIX THINGS OUT THAT FAR, MUCH FARTHER.
THE OTHER ITEM YOU'LL SEE IS ON THE VERY TOP DECK OF THE, UH, OF THAT, THE, THE ADDITION WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING A METAL FRAME, A LIGHT METAL FRAMED TRANSLUCENT CANOPY TO PROVIDE PROTECTION FOR THE OCCUPANTS AND FOR CONCESSIONAIRES WHO ARE AT THAT LEVEL.
AND AT THIS POINT, WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS, CONCERNS, QUESTIONS ON, UH, ON THAT, DESI, ON THAT DESIGN.
WHY DON'T WE, WE HAVE, UH, TWO ADDITIONAL SPEAKERS.
DO THE TWO OF YOU INTEND TO SPEAK OR ARE YOU JUST HERE FOR QUESTIONS, MR. HUTCHINGS AND MR. WINTERS? THEY'RE HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS TO TRY TO GET ME OUT OF TROUBLE.
SO WITH THAT, WE'LL GO ON AHEAD AND WE'LL START WITH QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONERS, UM, AS, UH, UH, OUR, PER OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES, EACH, UH, COMMISSIONER HAS IT'S FIVE MINUTES, IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? HAS FIVE MINUTES TO ASK QUESTIONS.
UM, EVERYBODY WILL GO THROUGH, UM, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ONCE BEFORE SPEAKING A SECOND TIME.
UM, ELAINE, WILL YOU BE TIMING THEM OR DO YOU NEED ME TO WILL? OKAY, GREAT.
WHO WANTS TO START OFF WITH THE FIRST QUESTION? I GOT A, I'LL START.
COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS, UH, THE RAILING THAT I SEE AT THE TOP OF THE TALL FACADE IS THAT, UH, CLEAR GLASS RAILING, UH, AT THE TOP OF THE CLASS PANEL RAILING AT THE TOP OF THE, UM, RIGHT ON THE, ON EACH SIDE OF THE TALL FACADE, UH, THE, THE TALLER ONE.
SO IT'S, SO IT'S THE FACADE, THE ORIGINAL FACADE, YEAH, THE ORIGINAL THAT'S PUSHED OUT MM-HMM.
UM, THAT'S, WELL, THAT'S, OR IS THAT MECHANICAL SCREENING? WHAT IS THAT? I'M NOT SURE.
IT'S NOT SHOWING UP ON THIS DRAWING THAT WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY CHANGES TO THAT.
SO I GUESS IT SHOWS UP A LITTLE BIT ON THAT ONE.
AND ON YOUR NEW ONE THAT YOU GAVE US, THERE'S, NOW THERE'S STANCHIONS, AND SO IT'S ALMOST LOOKING LIKE IT'S EITHER A MECHANICAL SCREEN OR IT'S A POSSIBLE A RAILING.
SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO SEE IF THAT WAS, I ACTUALLY GAVE YOU ALL MY DRAWINGS.
IS THERE ONE COPY OF THE DRAWING I HANDED OUT AVAILABLE? SO I CAN LOOK AT THE SAME THING? I'M, I APOLOGIZE.
COMMISSIONER, ARE YOU SPEAKING OF THE ONES THAT ARE ON THE FAR RIGHT SIDE? YEAH, FAR.
WELL, THE RIGHT AND LEFT OF, OF WHERE THE, WELL, YES.
THOSE, BUT THOSE ARE IN THE, THE METAL STAND, THE BOWL, THE ADDITIONS, THOSE ARE EXISTING.
UM, THOSE ARE, I THINK, METAL RAIL.
I KNOW THEY'RE METAL RAILINGS.
AND THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE EXISTING AND THEY'RE, AND WHEN YOU EXTEND IT, YOU'RE JUST GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA GO BACK TO METAL RAILINGS? WELL, WE DON'T TOUCH THOSE.
WE DON'T, THIS IS ALL DONE DONE.
AND THOSE HAVEN'T BEEN MOVED OR, OH, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.
AND ALSO, DID YOU SAY THAT WAS GONNA BE BLACK ON THE, THE, UH, THE CANOPY THAT YOU'RE PUTTING ON EACH EXTENSION? BLACK? NO, THERE'S A, THE CANOPY THAT WE'RE PUTTING ACROSS THE TOP WILL BE METAL.
WE DON'T HAVE A COLOR PICKED YET.
AND THERE'LL BE TRANSLUCENT RIGHT.
WE'RE THINKING OF POLYCARBONATE.
COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? NOPE.
ON THE TOUR, UM, I HAD ASKED A FEW QUESTIONS.
I JUST WANTED TO ADD THEM TO THE RECORD HERE AS WELL.
UM, WHEN THE RAMPS ARE BEING REMOVED, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE, WELL, THEY'RE STRUCTURALLY CONNECTED, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE STRUCTURALLY CONNECTED TO THE EXTERIOR WALL AS WELL.
AND SO, WHEN THE RAMPS ARE REMOVED DURING THE RENOVATION,
[00:35:01]
UM, IS THE EXISTING STRUCTURE GONNA REMAIN INTACT OR DOES, ARE THERE ADDITIONAL CHANGES THAT ARE GONNA HAVE TO BE MADE TO IT? WELL, AT THIS POINT, WE HAVEN'T IDENTIFIED STRUCTURAL NEEDS.ONCE THOSE ARE REMOVED, UM, THERE IS SOME LATERAL BRACING THAT THEY WOULD BE PROVIDING.
AND WE DO HAVE, THINK SOME OF THE SECTIONS SHOW WE'RE DOING A, A, A FEW PIECES OF, OF, UH, STRUCTURAL, UH, TYING ACROSS ON THE INSIDE, BUT MINIMAL, MINIMAL STUFF.
AND THEN MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION WAS THAT DURING, UM, CONVERSATION THIS MORNING, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ELEMENTS THAT WAS NOTED WAS THAT, UM, WAS THE IDEA OF THE REVERSIBILITY OF, OF ANY ADDITIONS TO BE MADE OR ANY MODIFICATIONS TO BE MADE.
UM, JUST WONDERING WHAT YOUR STEPS ARE, UH, INVOLVING THEM? WELL, AND, AND YES.
THAT, AND THAT IS OF COURSE, PART OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND WHY WE DON'T EXPECT, UH, THERE TO EVER BE A MOVEMENT TO REMOVE WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.
WE, WE UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT THE IDEA THAT THAT COULD COME APART, COME, COME ABOUT AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.
MY GRANDKIDS MIGHT LOOK TO RESTORE THE COTTON BOAT FOR WHATEVER REASON, BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL OR 1948 APPEARANCE.
AND SO, YEAH, WE'RE RESPECTING THAT, THAT PRIOR TO THE SECRETARY OF THE STAND INTERIOR STANDARDS.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS BASICALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STANDING OFF, WE'RE NOT REMOVING ANY MORE HISTORIC FABRIC THAN WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, WHICH IS REALLY THE RAMPS.
AND THEN THERE'LL BE A, LET'S CONSIDER A LIGHT TOUCH BETWEEN WHATEVER WE PUT UP AND THE EXISTING STRUCTURES AROUND THE SIDE.
SO IT COULD BE TAKEN OFF WITH MINIMAL EFFORT TO, UH, WITH MINIMAL CHANGE TO THE BUILDING.
SO, UH, DO I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, UH, MR. OLSON TO SAY THAT THE, UH, THE STRUCTURAL EXTERIOR WALL WILL ACTUALLY BE RETAINED AND ENCASED WITHIN THE, UH, BEHIND THE ADDITION? WELL, I WOULDN'T CALL IT ENCASED.
THE ORIGINAL WALL WILL BE RETAINED INTACT.
THE ONLY REMOVAL OR CHANGE TO, TO HISTORIC FABRIC THAT WE ARE MAKING IS THE REMOVAL OF THE RAMPS.
THAT WE LOOKED AT THAT DAY, BECAUSE ONE, THE RAMPS ARE NOT LEGAL ANY LONGER.
AND TWO, THEY WE'RE REPLACING THEM WITH, UH, ESCALATORS, WHICH IS THE MODERN, MUCH MORE EFFICIENT AND FASTER WAY TO MOVE PEOPLE THROUGH THE STADIUM.
OTHERWISE, THE WALL STAYS, UH, WE'LL, AND, AND, UH, WE ARE MAKING, TAKING SOME PAINS TO KEEP IT OPEN SO THAT YOU CAN, IT'S NOT ENC AND NOT ENCASED OR ENTOMBED IN ANY WAY.
YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE IT THROUGH THOSE OPENINGS YOU SEE THERE.
AND ON THESE, THIS DRAWING, THE NEW DRAWING ACTUALLY SHOWS THOSE OPENINGS A LITTLE BETTER, A LITTLE MORE ACCURATELY.
SO IT'LL BE, IT'LL BE VERY SIMPLE TO, TO PERCEIVE AND SEE THE HISTORIC, UH, 1948 FACADE AND ALL THE VERTICAL CIRCULATION WILL STAND OUTSIDE OF THE EXISTING WALLS.
AND THE EXISTING WALLS WILL THEN BECOME, UH, AN ASPECT OF THE CONCOURSE.
UM, I'M CONCERNED WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE RAMPS.
I BELIEVE THE RAMPS ARE PART OF THE HISTORIC FEELING OF THE STADIUM.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU GO TO AN OLD STADIUM, YOU HAVE RAMPS.
YOU GO TO THE NEW COWBOY STADIUM, YOU HAVE THE ESCALATORS.
UM, I REALLY FEEL THAT YOU'RE DESTROYING A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE, OF THE STADIUM BY TAKING OUT THE RAMPS, WHICH APPEAR TO BE STRUCTURAL TO SOME EXTENT, AND PUTTING IN ESCALATORS, WHICH IS GONNA MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A CONTEMPORARY INTERIOR.
SO MY QUESTION IS PARTLY, I KNOW THEY'RE OUT OF CODE, AND THERE IT'D BE BETTER FOR HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBILITY, BUT IS THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU TAKE THEM OUT IF THEY'RE EXISTING A REQUIREMENT THERE, THERE'S A FUNCTIONAL REQUIREMENT TO DO SO? UH, SO IT'S FUNCTIONAL.
THE INTENTION OF THE WHOLE PROJECT IS TO EXPAND THE CONCOURSES TO SEVERAL TIMES THEIR CURRENT WIDTH.
'CAUSE THEY ARE SO RESTRICTIVE.
AND SO THE RAMPS EXIST EXACTLY WHERE ADDITIONAL CONCOURSE WIDTH WOULD BE REQUIRED.
AND SO, WHILE IT IS, IT IS DISTASTEFUL TO ME TO COME TO THIS COMMISSION AND REQUEST, UH, APPROVAL TO REMOVE SOME HISTORIC FABRIC.
AND I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT IS IMPORTANT HISTORIC FABRIC.
IT IS, HOWEVER, I THINK A NECESSARY TRADE OFF IN THIS INSTANCE, UH, TO THE, THE CONTINUED VIABILITY OF THE COTTON BOWL.
AND IN RETURN FOR THAT REQUEST FOR REMOVAL, WE'RE GOING TO SOME PAINS TO MAINTAIN AND, AND KEEP AND RESTORE OTHER PORTIONS OF THE STADIUM THAT ARE MAYBE, UH, THAT, THAT MINIMIZE OUR IMPACT TO ANYTHING ELSE AND NOT REMOVE ANY MORE MATERIAL THAN WE HAVE TO SEE.
MY FEELING IS NOT ONLY IS IT THE RAMS
[00:40:01]
HISTORIC FABRIC, BUT IT IS THE ACTUAL FUNCTIONALITY OF THE RAMS. WHEN YOU GO INTO A STADIUM.NOW, FOR INSTANCE, THE, UH, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS STADIUM IS BUILT IN 1924.
DO THEY HAVE RAMPS OR DO THEY HAVE ESCALATORS? UH, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE RAMPS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS, AND THEY, THEY HAVE BOTH, UH, THE, UH, THE RAMPS DO REMAIN, BUT THE RAMPS ARE BEHIND OTHER CONSTRUCTION.
UH, THAT, THAT, UH, UH, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO BENEFIT TO REMOVING THOSE.
THERE'S PLENTY OF, PLENTY OF MOVEMENT SPACE.
AND THERE THEY DON'T REPRESENT A CONSTRICTION TO THE CONCOURSES.
UH, WHICH COULD SOME OF THE RAMPS BE? COULD SOME OF THE RAMPS BE RETAINED FOR HISTORICAL CONTINUITY? BECAUSE I FEEL STRONGLY WHEN YOU GO TO A VINTAGE GAME AND A VINTAGE, AN VINTAGE, UH, STICK MATHER, THE RAMPS ARE PART OF THESE GOING.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I'M IN A REAL OLD STADIUM.
WELL, AND AGAIN, I DON'T DISAGREE THAT THERE ARE A FEATURE OF OLDER STADIUMS. I AM AWARE THAT MANY OLDER STADIUMS ARE REMOVING THEM, NOT, THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO THE COTTON BOWL THAT'S DOING THAT.
UM, AND THE PROBLEM IS, UH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE WELL BELOW WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO BE NORMAL STANDARDS FOR, UH, SPACE PER OCCUPANT TO BE ABLE TO MOVE AROUND, UH, UH, AND, AND ACCESS THEIR SEATS AND ALL.
AND SOMEONE WHO GOES TO LARGE EVENTS AT THE COTTON BOWL ALL THE TIME.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE PROBLEM THERE IS REALLY QUITE, QUITE SEVERE.
UH, EVEN WITH THESE IMPROVEMENTS, WE HAVE NOT MET, UH, MODERN STANDARDS.
SO ANY TRADE OFF THAT WE MAKE WITH LEAVING A RAMP OR PART OF A RAMP, UH, IS, IS A, IS A LOSS OF THAT, OF MODERN EXPECTATIONS FOR FUNCTION THERE.
SO I, AGAIN, I FULLY UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS THERE, AND WE'VE, WE, UH, LABORED OVER THIS A LONG TIME, BUT FELT LIKE THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, AN, AN ESSENTIAL TRADE OFF.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE SHOWN IT.
IS THERE A WAY TO SUM OF THE RAMP RETAINED FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES FOR THAT THERE, THAT FEELING? IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY OF KEEPING SOME OF THE RAMP? I DON'T, THERE'S NO WAY OF KEEPING THE RAMPS.
THERE'S A POSSIBILITY, PERHAPS OF RE OF RETAINING SOME EVIDENCE OF THEM, UH, A NON-FUNCTIONING, UH, PIECES THAT SHOW WHERE THEY WERE VERY MUCH AS, SAY, AN HISTORIC TAX CREDIT PROJECT, INSTEAD OF BLOWING OUT A WALL, YOU HAVE TO DO PUNCHED OPENINGS AND KEEP, UH, UH, KEEP THE EXPRESSION OF THE WALL IN PLACE.
I'M NOT SURE IT ACCOMPLISHES WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE, BUT, UH, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, KEEPING ANYTHING AS A FULL WIDTH OF THE RAMP, WE DON'T SEE THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS GOING TO BE VERY SUCCESSFUL IF WE WERE TO KEEP THE WRAPS.
DO I HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? ANYBODY? UM, VIRTUALLY THAT HASN'T SPOKEN ONCE? NO.
WE'LL GO WITH COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS.
UM, HAS THIS BEEN SUBMITTED TO T H C AT THIS POINT FOR ANY, UH, REVIEWS? AND IF SO, WHEN WOULD YOU MIGHT HEAR, UH, WE HAVE BEEN DOWN AND MET WITH THE T H C AND PRESENTED THESE CONCEPTS TO THEM.
THAT PROCESS IS ONGOING BECAUSE IT IS ALSO BECAUSE IT'S A NATIONAL HISTORIC LANDMARK, AND WE ARE SEEKING HISTORIC TAX CREDITS FOR THIS PROJECT.
IT IS ALSO GOING TO BE REVIEWED BY THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.
WE LET THEM KNOW, HOWEVER THAT WE WERE DOING THIS PROCESS FIRST.
UH, I DON'T WANT TO SHOW THEM SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL WOULD REJECT.
AND, AND AS YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANNA PROVE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA SHOW THEM.
IT'S ALL GONNA BE, WE'RE WORKING IT AS CLOSE TO PARALLEL AS POSSIBLE.
BUT I DID WANT TO, THIS PROCESS IS CRITICAL PATH.
SO WE'VE, 'CAUSE YOU MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE ON OUR ABILITY TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND SO WE NEEDED, WE NEEDED TO COME UP WITH THE DESIGN WE FELT LIKE THAT LANDMARK COMMISSION WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH BEFORE WE WENT FULL ON WITH THE, WITH THE, THE T H C.
BUT THEY'RE AWARE WE'RE DOING IT.
THEY'VE SEEN THE INITIAL, INITIAL PLANS AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, FOLDING THEIR ARMS AND SITTING BACK AND LOOKING AT IT TOO.
AND YOU GUYS WOULD BE COMING BACK AND WE'LL BE REVIEWING THEIR COMMENTS AS WELL AS THE PARTS.
YEAH, IT, WELL, AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT COMING BACK.
SO WHAT'S THE SCHEDULE AND QUESTIONS? THE SCHEDULE IS ON LAST THURSDAY WE FILED FOR THE OFFICIAL CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
UH, TWO DAYS FROM NOW, WE WILL BE SENDING, WE'LL BE BRINGING UPDATED INFORMATION, INCLUDING ANY INFORMATION WE GATHER AT THIS MEETING TO THE TASK FORCE.
AND WE DO EXPECT TO BE BACK HERE NEXT MONTH WITH A REAL C OF A APPLICATION WITH ADDITIONAL DETAILS AND INFORMATION BASED ON WHAT WE'VE COME UP WITH DURING THAT MONTH PROCESS, YES, WE WILL BE, UH, TOUCH IN TOUCH AGAIN WITH THE, UM, THE T H C AND, AND, AND TRYING TO BALANCE THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE AWARE OF WHERE WE ARE HERE AND THAT OUR DESIGN REFLECTS THINGS THAT THEY CAN LIVE WITH AS BEST AS WE CAN DETERMINE FROM THEM.
DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE COMMENTS FROM THEM, UH, TO
[00:45:01]
SUBMIT TO, UH, THE CA PROCESS OVER THE NEXT MONTH THAT WE SEE YOU? I DO, I DO.IF WE HAVE NO MORE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, I JUST HAVE ONE MYSELF.
HAVE YOU SPOKEN ALREADY? OKAY.
WE HAVE ONE QUESTION, AND NORMAN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ARCHITECTURAL PROPRIETY.
UM, JUST OUT OF INTEREST, HAVING BEEN, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CROWD MORE THAN ONCE MYSELF, CAN YOU SPEAK TO WHAT THIS CHANGE WOULD BRING ABOUT IN TERMS OF JUST THE FLOW OF HUMANKIND THROUGH THAT SPACE? I MEAN, HOW MANY MORE THOUSANDS WILL GET THROUGH MORE EXPEDIENTLY THAN BEFORE? WELL, RIGHT NOW THE CAPACITY IS SOMETHING LIKE 90 THOU, 90 PLUS THOUSAND.
UH, THIS WILL, THIS, WE BELIEVE THIS WILL HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT FOR MOVEMENT ALL THROUGH THE, THE STADIUM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT ON THE FAR SIDE.
THE, UH, UH, IT WILL, WE THINK IT WILL HELP BALANCE OUT SOME OF THE MOVEMENT.
UM, AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE UNDERSTAND NOW THE CALCULATIONS HAVE BEEN DONE THAT IT TAKES ABOUT 45 MINUTES TO EVACUATE THE STADIUM.
IT'S, IT'S A LONG TIME BY MODERN STANDARDS.
I DO NOT HAVE THE CALCULATIONS FOR WHAT THE, UH, NEW EVACUATION TIME WOULD BE, UH, WITH THESE.
BUT WE EXPECT IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, SUBSTANTIALLY LESS.
AGAIN, THE IDEA HERE IS, IS THIS IS THE MOST WE CAN DO.
UH, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE JUST IS NO OTHER PLACE TO GO WITH THIS.
AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET AS MUCH ACCOMMODATION AS WE CAN.
SO WE THINK IT WILL MAKE A VERY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE, UH, TO THE EXPERIENCE AT THE STADIUM IN ALL LOCATIONS, BUT ESPECIALLY ON WHAT WE REFER TO AS THE WEST SIDE.
AS, AS, AS HUTCH HERE WAS EXPERIENCING TO ME, THE, WHEN THEY DO THE CALCULATIONS OF, OF MOVEMENT SPACE PER OCCUPANT, UH, THIS EDITION WILL DOUBLE THAT NUMBER, UH, THROUGHOUT THE STADIUM.
I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE, HAVE A GREATER EFFECT ON THE WEST SIDE, BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE, THIS WILL BE TWICE AS MUCH MOVEMENT AS, UH, A SPACE AS WE HAVE TODAY.
UM, SORRY TO GO BACK TO THESE, BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE THIS IS SORT OF THE MOST SUBSTANTIAL HISTORICAL LOSS, UH, UH, ATTENDING TO THIS PROJECT, WHICH, UH, YOU KNOW, I, AND I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE NEED FOR FUNCTIONALITY, BUT THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE.
SO, UM, ON THE DRAWING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MM-HMM.
THAT'S THE EXISTING 1948 EDITION.
AND THE, UM, THE LEVEL THAT THE CANOPY IS SHADING, THAT IS THE UPPERMOST CONCOURSE? THAT IS CORRECT LEVEL.
THAT'S THE, THE EXISTING, THE EXISTING UPPER CONCOURSE LEVEL? YES.
WHICH WAS, AND, AND THAT EXISTING UPPER CONCOURSE, WAS THAT ORIGINAL TO THE COTTON BOWL, OR WAS THAT ADDED IN 1948? THAT WAS, OR THAT'S, THAT IS, THAT IS FROM 48.
BEFORE 19 47, 48, THIS THING SAT ON THE GROUND.
EVERYTHING IN THE, YOU CAN SEE IN THE DOCUMENTS IN 1936 CENTENNIAL EXPOSITION, THIS WAS JUST 12 OR 15 FEET ABOVE THE ADJACENT GRADE, 40 EIGHTS WHEN IT WENT TO WHAT WE KNOW OF AS A COTTON BOWL TODAY.
SO ALL THE RAMPS ABOUT WHICH WE WAXED SO SENTIMENTAL, THEY TO 1948.
AND AT THAT TIME, THEY WERE CONSTRUCTED FROM THE GROUND UP TO THE UPPERMOST CONCOURSE? THAT'S CORRECT.
THEY BASICALLY JUST CONNECT THE MAIN CONCOURSE, WHICH WAS AT THE TOP OF THE BOWL WHEN IT WAS BUILT IN 30.
AND THEN, AND THEN THEY CONNECTED UP TO THE UPPER CONCOURSE, WHICH WAS ADDED IN 1948.
SO SOME OF THE RAMPS ACTUALLY WERE ALREADY PRESENT, UH, UH, FROM 1937, IS THAT CORRECT? NO, THERE WERE NO RAMPS IN TH AGAIN, THERE WAS NO PLACE TO GO WITH RAMPS IN 1936.
THE, THE, THERE WERE STEPS UP WHEN YOU GOT TO THE COTTON BOWL, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY BASICALLY ROUND IT UP RIGHT.
AND THEN THEY, I GUESS THEY JUST CUT AND FILL, YOU KNOW, DUG, DUG THE HOLE AND PILED THE DIRT AROUND IT.
SO WHEN YOU GOT THERE IN 1936, THERE WAS, THERE ARE, THERE ARE STAIRS AND RAMPS SHOWN IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THERE WAS A 12 OR 15 FOOT RISE TO GET INTO THE BOWL BEFORE YOU COULD GO DOWN AND SIT.
THAT MAIN CONCOURSE LEVEL HAS REMAINED SINCE THAT TIME, SINCE THAT TIME, AT THAT TIME.
SO ALL THE RAMPS ARE FROM 48? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND IS IT, IS IT CORRECT TO SAY THAT THE, UH, CAPACITY OF THE, THE, THAT THERE IS MORE, UH, CIRCULATION DEMAND ON THE LOWER RAMPS THAN ON THE UPPER RAMPS? TYPICALLY? YES.
WAS ANY, UH, WAS THAT BUILT INTO THE DESIGN IN ANY WAY OR WERE
[00:50:01]
THEY SIMPLY ALL THE SAME WIDTH REGARDLESS OF ANTICIPATED VOLUME OF USE? TRUTHFULLY, THERE'S REALLY ONLY, REMEMBER, WE'RE ONLY, THERE'S ONLY TWO LEVELS.UH, BASICALLY FOR, UH, THERE'S THE UPPER LEVEL AND, AND THEN THE MAIN LEVEL.
AND SO, AND THOSE, WHEN THEY BUILT THE UPPER PORTION, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE ALWAYS HAD.
SO THERE WAS, THERE WAS NOTHING TO SCALE BACK AS IT WENT.
AND WE'RE NOT MAKING THAT CHANGE.
SO REALLY THE, THE ANSWER WE HAVE, THEY JUST GO UP TO A LANDING AND THEN THEY RETURN.
YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS ON FACEBOOK SHOW THAT VERY CLEARLY.
WELL, YOU KNOW, UM, 'CAUSE I, I THINK THAT FOR A GUY LIKE ME, UH, THE EXPERIENCE OF COMMISSIONER ANDERSON WAS TALKING ABOUT, I, I CAN RELATE TO THAT, BUT REALLY IT'S THE TEXTURE OF THE RAMP AND WE'RE, WE'RE LOSING SO MUCH OF THAT OLD CONCRETE TEXTURE WHERE WE HAVE PLANK FORM WORK AND YOU JUST DON'T SEE PLANK FORM WORK ANYMORE.
AND IT WOULD BE, IN MY VIEW, I UNDERSTAND WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THIS BUILDING IN USE AND WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE SAME KIND OF EVENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, THAT WE'RE COMPETING WITH MORE MODERN STADIUMS FOR.
BUT ANYWAY, THAT WE COULD KEEP THAT SOME OF THAT TEXTURE THAT SHOWS THE ORIGINAL METHODS.
'CAUSE NOWADAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY SEE PLYWOOD, YOU MAY JUST SEE METAL, RIGHT.
UH, AND IT'S VERY, IT DOESN'T TELL YOU MUCH ABOUT WHAT IT WAS OR ABOUT THE WOODS OF FORESTS OF YESTERDAY.
SO I'LL PASS THAT ALONG TO THE DESIGNERS.
I MEAN, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE ELEMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS WE CAN ADDRESS.
UH, BUT I, I UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND IT COMPLETELY.
IF NO ONE HAS ANY MORE QUESTIONS, I JUST HAVE, UH, ONE OF, OF MY OWN AND WHAT YOU HAVE PASSED OUT TODAY, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S NOW AN OPENING WHERE I THINK THE TICKET COUNTER USED TO BE.
IT'S, IT'S NOT SHOWING IT ON THE SCREEN CURRENTLY TO THE LEFT OF THE, UH, MAIN, THE, THE MAIN STAIRS OF THAT? THAT, NO, THAT, THAT IS, UM, THOSE ARE, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S THERE NO TICKET COUNTERS.
THAT'S, THAT'S JUST, THERE'S A GATE NOW THERE'S AN OPENING IN THE WALL AND ACT AND IT'S AT THE TOP OF A RAMP.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHERE A LOT OF THE, UH, UH, WHEN THEY, YOU KNOW, THE MOTORIZED TRAFFIC THAT GOES INTO THE STADIUM TO, TO SUPPLY IT COMES UP AND COMES IN THAT WAY.
SO IT WON'T BE CLOSED OFF LIKE IT IS UP THERE IN THAT IMAGE.
THERE WILL BE AN OPENING ON, THERE WILL BE AN OPENING, YES.
AND THERE'LL BE STAIRS AS YOU COME IN.
IT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THOSE TWO STAIRS CAME TOGETHER AND THERE WAS A BOOTH THERE AT THE TWO STAIRS THAT CAME TOGETHER.
YEAH, WE'VE ADDED, WE'VE ADDED AN ENTRANCE THERE.
WE DIDN'T SHOW IT THE LAST TIME, BUT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IN, IN RESPONSE TO, AND WE APPRECIATE THE ISSUE ABOUT THE STAIRS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MONTH.
AND THOSE WERE AN IMPORTANT DESIGN ELEMENT.
UH, BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE ROOM TO REPLICATE THEM.
UH, AND SO THAT, BUT THAT FUNCTION IS STILL NEEDED THERE.
ONCE THAT IS AT THE GROUND LEVEL, YOU STILL HAVE TO GO UP TO THE FIRST CONCOURSE.
AND SO THERE ARE STAIRS AND ESCALATORS JUST INSIDE THAT OPENING.
ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS FROM ANY COMMISSIONERS ONLINE? ALL RIGHT.
UH, CHAIRMAN MONTGOMERY CAN, UH, RETURN.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP BY THE WAY.
SO WHAT'S UP NEXT ON OUR AGENDA? C ONE C TWO.
UH, SO YOU DIDN'T CORRECT ME ENOUGH.
WE HAD THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA WAS THE SECOND FOR C SEVEN.
SHE EMAILED AND SAID SHE WAS NOT.
WE HAVE TO ASK THE COMMISSION.
WHO SECONDED FOR C SEVEN? IT MUST HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONER BELVIN, I GUESS.
'CAUSE IT WAS A WOMAN'S VOICE.
WE'LL NEED TO HAVE CONFIRMATION WHEN WE DID THE MOVE FOR C SEVEN.
I BELIEVE THE SECOND CAME FROM SOMEONE ONLINE.
WAS THAT YOU COMMISSIONER BELVIN? YES.
I THOUGHT IT WAS COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA.
RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.
DISCUSSION ITEM D TWO IS CITED AT 2 0 8 LANDIS STREET IN THE 10TH STREET NEIGHBORHOOD HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE CASE NUMBER IS CA 2 2 3 DASH 4 85 R D.
[00:55:01]
REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT STAFF.RECOMMENDATION IS AS FOLLOWS, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 7 6 23 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT FOUNDATION B PIER AND BEAM ARE CONCRETE POSTS AND BEAM.
THAT EXTERIOR DOORS BE CRAFTSMAN STYLE WITH A MINIMUM OF THREE TOP LIGHTS THAT WINDOWS BE ALL WOOD WITH EXTERIOR MUONS.
IN OTHER WORDS, GRILLS AND THAT DEPTH OF FRONT PORCH BE A MINIMUM OF SIX FEET BEHIND PORCH COLUMNS.
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION.
SECTION B UNDER NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS, THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT AND NEIGHBORHOOD TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT BE APPROVED WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION.
FOUNDATION SLAB MUST BE AT LEAST 24 INCHES IN HEIGHT AND COVERED BY SKIRTING POST AND BEAM IS PREFERRED.
ALRIGHT, AND WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER REGISTERED FOR THIS ONE.
DAVID ANDERSON, YOU'RE HERE IN PERSON.
I DON'T THINK I NEED TO PUSH, DO I? WE'RE GOOD.
IS IT ON LIGHT? YOU SEE A LIGHT? YES, MA'AM.
FIRST, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
56 0 6 BRYN MAWR, DALLAS, TEXAS.
AND, UH, YOU, YOU SWEAR OR PROMISE TO TELL US THE TRUTH TODAY?
ALRIGHT, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES IF YOU'D LIKE TO TELL US ANYTHING FURTHER ABOUT YOUR PROJECT AND LA AND WE'LL BE TIMING YOU.
UM, THIS IS ACTUALLY IN A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS.
IT'S THE LAND BANK, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROGRAM.
AND I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE PROGRAM NOW FOR ALMOST SIX YEARS AND WE'VE BUILT QUITE A FEW HOMES AND THIS HAPPENS TO BE, UM, UM, ONE OF THOSE HOMES IN THAT AREA.
DUNN AND I THINK WE'RE AT A GOOD SPOT NOW WHERE EVERYBODY AGREES THAT THIS WOULD BE A, A REALLY WELL, WELL-BUILT HOUSE FOR THAT AREA.
AND ANYTHING ELSE OR ARE YOU READY? WE'LL BE ASKING YOU QUESTIONS I'M SURE, SO, OH, QUESTIONS ARE FINE.
ALRIGHT, SO STAY AROUND SO WE CAN, WE CAN DO THAT.
WHAT QUESTIONS DO ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE REGARDING THIS PROJECT? I HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS.
UM, I APPRECIATE THE, ALL THE WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE, UH, BOTH BY YOUR GROUP.
AND THEN AS THE SUBSEQUENT, UM, UH, PRESENTATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE TO US, I, I I THINK YOU'RE MAKING SOME STEPS FORWARD.
HOWEVER, WE STILL HAVE, UH, UH, A FEW THINGS THAT WE'D LIKE TO CONSIDER OR ASK YOU TO CONSIDER FOR, UH, UH, UNDER THE, UM, UH, UH, IT STARTS WITH A C
UM, AND ALSO I WANTED TO MENTION MAYBE AT THE TOP OF ALL OF THIS THAT, UM, WE REALIZED THAT THE SLOPE OF THE EXISTING SITE HAS, HAS BEEN DRASTICALLY CHANGED, UH, TO BASICALLY BE FLAT.
UH, AND, YOU KNOW, THE EXISTING CONDITION OF, OF THE ENTIRE STREET ACTUALLY PROBABLY DROPS SIX, EIGHT FEET FROM THE FRONT OF THE STREET TO THE REAR OF THE LOT.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT ON THE, THE NEIGHBORING HOUSES TO EITHER SIDE.
UM, SO I JUST WANTED IT TO, TO GO ON RECORD THE FACT THAT WE, WE REALIZE THAT SITE HAS ALREADY BEEN CHANGED.
UM, AND SO YOU'RE WORKING WITH THOSE CONDITIONS.
UM, ALSO THAT THE, THE VIEW OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE FROM THE STREET IS RELATIVELY SIMILAR TO, UH, BOTH THE HOMES ON YOUR, EITHER ON EITHER SIDE OF YOU.
SO, UM, UM, AGAIN, JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT, UH, UH, SO THAT IT SHOWS ON THE RECORD.
UM, SO THEN REGARDING SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS, UM, REALIZE THAT YOU'VE, UH, I'VE, I'VE SEEN THE, THE EVOLUTION OF, UM, OF THE DESIGN OF THE FOUNDATION AND, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THE THINGS THAT, UM, UM, UM, THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH THERE.
OBVIOUSLY KEEP MOVEMENT OF THE SLAB, UH, UH, TO AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.
YOU KNOW, WHILE WE PREFER, UM, UM, PIER AND BEAM FOUNDATION, YOU KNOW, UH, A CONTINUOUS FOOTER AROUND THE PERIMETER WITH, WITH PIERS, UH, IN THE MIDDLE, IN A, A WOOD FRAME ABOVE THAT, UM, WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU TOOK MEASURES TO, TO LIFT THAT SLAB TWO FEET OFF THE GROUND.
UM, HOWEVER, TO MAKE THAT DETAIL, UH, MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, UH, NOTICE ONE OF THE CONDITIONS ALREADY WAS TO ADD SKIRTING
[01:00:01]
BELOW IT, BUT, UM, NOTICE THAT THE SKIRTING THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING ON YOUR ELEVATIONS IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT'S, UM, WHAT'S ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.AND, UM, I'D LIKE TO MAKE ONE OF THE CONDITIONS SO THAT THERE'D BE A, A WATERFALL AT THE CHANGE OF THE, BETWEEN THE, THE FLOOR SLAB AND THEN THE SKIRTING DOWN BELOW THAT.
UM, SO THAT, THAT IS IN KEEPING WITH THE, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, I KNOW YOU HAVE WOOD UP ABOVE.
I THINK THERE WAS A DIFFERENT MATERIAL BELOW THAT, BUT IF THAT COULD REMAIN THE SAME ALL THE WAY, UM, REALIZING THAT WOOD SO CLOSE TO THE SOIL, UH, PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE ABOUT SIX INCHES UP OFF OF THE SOIL.
AND I, I THINK THAT WOULD BE FINE.
UM, A SECOND CONDITION WOULD BE AT THE OVERHANG.
UM, I KNOW YOU'RE SHOWING, UH, OPEN RAFTER TAILS, BUT THE, THE DISTANCE OF THAT OVERHANG IS ACTUALLY QUITE SMALL.
IT LOOKS ONLY MAYBE ABOUT A FOOT OR SO.
UM, BUT, AND MORE IN CON COMMISSIONER RENO, I AM COMPELLED TO INTERRUPT YOU BY OUR ATTORNEY.
I KNOW YOU'RE ASKING A QUESTION OR GETTING THERE, BUT YOU HAVE TO KIND OF BE QUESTIONING FIRST AND THEN LET'S HEAR WHAT HE SAYS.
SO I GUESS MY POINT ON THE, UH, ON THE ROOF OVERHANG IN PARTICULAR WAS WOULD YOU BE OPEN TO, UH, ADJUSTING THAT DIMENSION SO THAT IT WOULD BE MORE IN KEEPING WITH, UM, WITH UM, UM, ADJACENT HOMES WHERE IT IS A, A TWO FOOT OVERHANG AND WITH UH, UH, OPEN RAFTERS? YES, I WOULD, I MEAN, OKAY.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY FEET IT IS.
WE HIRED ALL THAT DONE TO MEET ALL THE GUIDELINES AND CODE SHIRLEY.
UM, OH, AND THEN I JUST NOTICED SOMETHING VERY SMALL ON THE, ON THE FRONT ELEVATION.
UM, NOTICE THAT THE, THE TREADS ARE SHOWN AS SIX INCHES.
I THINK YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE RISERS AND NOT THE TREADS.
TREADS ARE TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, 11 INCHES, 12 INCHES.
I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT YOU MEANT THERE IN PARTICULAR, ON, ON BOTH THE FRONT PORCH AND THE BACK PORCH, IT'S SHOWING SIX INCH TREADS.
AND THAT'S, THOSE ARE ACTUALLY QUITE SHORT.
IT WOULD BE RISERS, NOT TREADS.
AND, AND I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY, WAS THERE A RESPONSE, SIR, ABOUT THE REQUEST THAT WE ADD THE, UM, THE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THE DRIP LINE, A WATER TABLE THERE AND, AND HAVE WOOD UNDERNEATH IT AT THE FOUNDATION? DID YOU YEAH.
OUR INTENT IS TO, UH, EMULATE WHAT A PYRAMID BEAM, UH, HOUSE WOULD LOOK LIKE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE, BUT MOST AREN'T, UM, THAT AREA BECAUSE OF THE, THEY CALL IT, YOU KNOW, MUD SOIL.
UM, MOST OF THE HOMES IN THAT AREA WERE BUILT IN, YOU KNOW, THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS.
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE ALL WY AND LOPSIDED.
SO ONE OF MY GOALS ON THIS IS I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HOME AS A, AS THE, UH, BUILDER.
AND UH, WHEN WE HIRED THE ENGINEER TO DESIGN THE HOME, HE CAME BACK WITH THE, THE APPEAR BEAM AND, AND SAID THAT WAS THE BEST FOR THAT LOT.
AS YOU SAID, THAT LOT DOES HAVE A NASTY SLOPE AND A DROP OFF BEHIND IT.
UM, BUT YES, NOW WE'LL WE WILL DO WHAT HE HAD HAD SAID AND THAT'S WHAT OUR INTENT WAS TO MAKE SURE IT EMULATES WHAT A APPEAR BEAM LOOKS LIKE.
JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE HAD YOU SAYING THAT ON.
WE RECORD THESE, YOU KNOW, SO NOW YOU'RE MARGINALIZED FOR ALLITY.
AND I, I'M SORRY, I JUST WANTED TO ADD ONE MORE DETAIL TO THAT.
'CAUSE YOU WERE ALSO SHOWING THE SKIRTING AROUND THE PORCHES, BOTH THE FRONT AND THE REAR.
AND BECAUSE THEY'RE CONCRETE, YOU WOULD NOT NEED A SKIRTING THERE BECAUSE THEN YOU'D HAVE TO CARRY A, A WOOD FLOOR UP ON THE TOP TOO, SO THAT THOSE MATERIALS MEET.
UM, I, AND THERE I THINK IT WOULD BE BEST TO KEEP THE SKIRTING OFF ALTOGETHER.
UM, IS THAT ON THE FRONT? YEAH.
AND, AND THE REAR PORCH, I THINK YOU WERE SHOWING SKIRTING THERE AS WELL.
ALRIGHT, OTHER, OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? COMMISSIONER SWAN? YEAH, THIS IS A, UH, WELL THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.
UM, WHEN YOU BECAME INVOLVED WITH THE PROJECT, HAD THERE ALREADY BEEN A MOUND CREATED IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY WHERE THE SLOPE IS.
I DON'T RECALL THERE BEING A MOUND.
THERE WAS SOMEBODY DUMPED ON US AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I'M, I SWEAR.
WELL, THE, WHEN YOU SAY SOMEBODY DUMPED ON YOU, I MEAN, WERE Y'ALL ALREADY IN CONTROL OF THE LOT AT THAT TIME? NO.
WE GET, JUST LIKE, I JUST GOT LOTS FROM THE CITY, UM, THEM IN MILL CITY.
AND, UH, WE GET WHERE THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DUMPS ON 'EM, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND SMOOTH THEM OUT.
SO THERE WAS A DUMP ON THE SITE THAT WE HAD TO LEVEL BECAUSE WE WERE IN CODE VIOLATION FOR THE DUMP BEING ON THE SITE.
I, I BELIEVE A REPORT WAS, WAS MADE AT THE TIME.
UH, I HAPPENED TO BE ON THAT BLOCK AT THE TIME WHEN TRUCKLOADS OF, OF SAND WERE BROUGHT TO THE SITE AND LEVELED WITH THE BULLDOZER WHILE THE TRUCKS WERE COMING.
SO ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT CONTOUR
[01:05:01]
HAS BEEN ALTERED SUBSTANTIALLY.ARE THE HOUSES ON EITHER SIDE OF YOU SITTING ON MOUNDS LIKE THAT MOUND? NO, THE LOTS I WENT BY IT THE OTHER DAY.
THE YES, IT'S MOUNTED IN THE REAR THOUGH, BECAUSE THE PROPERTY, THE CONTOUR OF THE PROPERTY IS SLOPED FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK.
IT HAS BEEN MADE ARTIFICIALLY FLAT.
WE, WHEN WE REMOVED THE DIRT THAT WAS DUMPED ON THE LOT, WE, WE HAD TO LEVEL THE LOT WHEN WE REMOVE THE DART.
THE LOT IS NOT AT THE SAME, UH, THE, THE, THE HISTORIC GRADE THAT THE PREVIOUS HOUSE SET ON HAS BEEN SUBSTANTIALLY ALTERED, CORRECT? I DON'T KNOW THAT.
WELL, I'M GOING BY THE PICTURES AND IT, I SEE WHAT THE, HOW THE HOUSES ON EITHER SIDE, UH, HAVE LOTS THAT SLOPE TO THE BACK.
AND WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PICTURE FROM THE STREET, UM, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE EARTH IS BUILT UP TO MAKE THE LOT THAT YOU ARE TALKING THAT, UH, THAT YOUR, UH, HOUSE HAS PROPOSED FOR TO MAKE IT FLAT.
I MEAN, ISN'T THAT THE CASE THAT WHERE YOU'RE PROPOSING TO PUT THIS HOUSE, IT FALLS AWAY ON EITHER SIDE TO THE CONTOURS TO THE, SOMETHING MORE CLOSELY APPROXIMATING THE ORIGINAL CONTOURS OF THE LAND? CORRECT.
I, I, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE LOT LOOKED LIKE, UM, WHEN WE WERE, YOU KNOW, ACQUIRED THAT LOT FROM THE CITY.
BUT THE EXISTING CONDITION NOW IS THAT IT IS HIGHER IN THE BACK? IT IS HIGHER THAN THE LOTS ON EITHER SIDE.
I YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S IN THE AGENDA.
I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT.
WELL, NEXT QUESTION IS FOR STAFF.
UM, COULD WE SEE FIRST THE AERIAL? OKAY.
AND COULD YOU SHOW US WITH THE CURSOR WHERE THE, THE LOT IN QUESTION IS RIGHT HERE? DO YOU SEE ANY VEGETATION ON THAT LOT? NO.
I MEAN, IT, IT, THERE'S EVERY INDICATION FROM THE AERIAL THAT THAT IS DIRT THAT HAS BEEN DUMPED AND HAS NOT HAD TIME, A SEASON ON WHICH DURING WHICH TO GROW VEGETATION.
CAN I WHEN WAS THAT PICTURE TAKEN? UH, DO YOU HAVE A CAPTURE DATE ON THAT? HOLD ON.
IT WAS, I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE LAST TWO, TWO TO THREE YEARS.
YEAH, IT WAS WITHIN THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS.
I THINK THE ONE WE'RE LOOKING AT IS MAY, 2022.
YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE DATE ON THOSE THAT THAT WOULD SOUND ABOUT RIGHT.
UM, SO THAT, THAT REALLY INDICATES THAT ALL OF THAT IS A GRADE THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT HAD ALWAYS HISTORICALLY BEEN THERE.
THIS, THIS LOT HAS BEEN BUILT UP.
UH, AND THEN IF WE COULD LOOK AT 20, UH, 2022.
IS IT 2022 NORTH STREET? OH, YES.
NOW, WHAT, HOW WOULD YOU
OH, YOU'RE ASKING ME? YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S A CONCRETE POST.
IT'S ON CONCRETE POST, CORRECT? MM-HMM.
AND THIS IS ONLY TWO HOUSES AWAY FROM THE LOT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND YOU CAN SEE BEHIND THIS HOUSE, UM, THE WAY THAT THE, THE WAY THAT THE LANDFALLS AWAY, THIS WAS CALLED SPRING HILL.
NOW, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO STATEMENTS, BUT, UH, IF WE COULD, IT JUST, I WANT TO GET THESE IMPRESSIONS IN EVERYONE'S MIND BECAUSE THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A CHARACTER OF, OF A HOUSE THAT PRESERVES THE CHARACTER DEFINING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE EXISTING TERRAIN THAT IS TYPICAL OF 10TH STREET.
AND YOU CAN SEE IT'S, UH, THERE'S VIRTUALLY A, YOU COULD VIRTUALLY STAND UP IN THE SPACE UNDERNEATH THE HOUSE ON ONE SIDE.
AND THIS WAS A CONDITION CALLED, UH, MANY HOUSES OPEN UNDERNEATH, BECAUSE THERE WAS THAT MUCH GRAY CHANGE BETWEEN THE FRONT AND THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
AND THEY USED WOOD POSTS, OF COURSE, BACK IN THE DAY, BUT CONCRETE POSTS.
NOW, NOW, IF WE COULD JUST GO BACK TO THE, THE, UH, PROPOSED FACADE, OR, OR ACTUALLY THE DETAILS, THE DETAILS SHEET.
OH, LET'S STAY ON THIS FOR JUST A MOMENT.
[01:10:02]
HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE WAY THAT, THAT THE TRADITIONAL CRAFTSMAN GABLES WERE CREATED WITH BRACKETS? USUALLY THREE BRACKETS? UH, BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE SORT OF HALFWAY THIS, THIS ONE THAT IS YOUR TIME.WHO ELSE HAS A QUESTION OR PERHAPS WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THE LINE OF QUESTIONING THAT HAS BEEN BEGUN? I WANTED TO ADD ONE MORE, UM, DETAIL ONTO THE, THE, OKAY.
IS THERE ANYBODY, 'CAUSE I'VE BEEN IN, I'VE BEEN REMINDED THAT WE'RE ALL SUPPOSED TO TALK FOR ANYBODY, TALKS TWICE, BUT WE DON'T ALL LINE UP TO TALK.
IS THERE ANYONE AT HOME? THERE'S SOMEBODY I'D LIKE TO ADD.
WHO WAS THAT? SOMEBODY LIKE THAT? ANDERSON.
I THINK THE DESIGN IS VERY GOOD.
YOU DID A GREAT JOB OF TRYING TO COORDINATE WITH THE ADJOINING HOUSES, UM, NOTWITHSTANDING THE CONCERNS THAT WERE BROUGHT BY COMMISSIONERS, WHICH I DO AGREE WITH.
I THINK YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF TRYING TO GET A VERNACULAR, THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I'M VERY EXCITED THAT THE DALLAS CITY OF DALLAS LAND BANK, AND YOU ARE COORDINATING HERE.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED IN 10TH STREET.
SO I APPLAUD YOU AND THE CITY TO BE WITH THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IN DOING SUCH A NICE JOB.
THE CONCERNS OF MY PUBLIC COMMISSIONER.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU A PAT ON THE BACK FOR COMING FORTH AND DOING SOMETHING GREAT WITH.
WE'RE NOT RELATED, BY THE WAY.
NO, WE'RE ALL ANDERSONS ARE RELATED.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO, UH, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS? I HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, IT'S GOOD OF YOUR WINDOW, UH, SHEET.
THE, UM, THE LARGE LINE DRAWING ON THE LEFT OF YOUR, IT SAYS WINDOW DETAIL THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE, THE LITTLE PHOTOGRAPH INSERT OF THE WINDOW.
AND I WAS ALSO LOOKING FORWARD DIMENSIONS ON WHAT THIS WINDOW WOULD BE.
UM, SO IS IT, SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SASH DIMENSIONS ON THE LINE DRAWING IS DIFFERENT FROM THE SASH DIMENSION ON THE LITTLE PHOTO INSERT THAT THE, THAT'S BROWN TO JUST THE RIGHT AND UP OF THAT, THAT BOTTOM SASH IS MORE HISTORIC KEEPING OF BEING A, A LARGER DIMENSION THAN THE LINE DRAWING THAT'S PROVIDED.
WHICH ONE IS THE ONE YOU'RE USING? I, I'M ASSUMING I DON'T, 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND TALK TO THE, UH, THE DESIGNER, BUT I'M ASSUMING IT'S THE ONE THAT WE'VE SHOWN IN THE PICTURE, WHICH IS THE, UH, ONE ON THE LEFT.
THE, I HAVE CONCERNS WITH THAT JUST BECAUSE OF THAT SASH DIMENSION.
WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THIS WINDOW? UH, I DON'T HAVE PLANS IN FRONT OF ME, SO, OH, OKAY.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SITTING ON HERE.
SO I JUST THINK THESE WINDOWS MIGHT BE A, SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE SIZE.
THE, IT SEEMS THEY'RE, THE SEAL IS A LITTLE LOW, UM, COMPARED TO WHAT THEY WOULD BE IN THE PERIOD.
THEY SEEM LIKE THIS IS ONLY MAYBE 18 INCHES OR SO.
I WONDER WHAT THAT DIMENSION IS FROM THE FINISHED FLOOR.
'CAUSE THEY JUST SEEM A LITTLE LOW, UM, FOR THE PERIOD, UH, THAT YOU'LL BE COMPETING WITH.
AND NOT ONLY THAT, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS YOU HAVE TRIM GOING AROUND THESE WINDOWS OR NOT.
UM, TYPICALLY THOSE WOULD BE LIKE A LITTLE FOUR INCH BOARDS GOING AROUND THE TRIM, AND THEN YOU'D HAVE A WINDOW, EXTERIOR WINDOW SILL.
I'M JUST, I'M CONCERNED THAT THESE ARE JUST GONNA BE INSET IN THIS ONE 17 NOVELTY SIDING.
AND I'M WANTING TO SEE A SEAL DETAIL.
I'M WANTING TO SEE A JAM AND A HEAD DETAIL TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE THE PROPER DETAILS, THE PROPER, UH, DIMENSIONS.
SO I WAS LOOKING FOR A SEAL DETAIL AND A JAM AND HEAD DETAIL THAT I DON'T SEE IF, IF I'M MISSING THAT, PLEASE POINT THOSE OUT TO ME.
YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE PLANS IN FRONT OF ME.
BUT IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, MY INTENT IS TO BUILD THE EXACT HISTORIC HOME THAT IS IN THAT AREA.
SO WHEN WE HIRE, YEAH, WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE.
AND THAT'S ALL, THAT'S WHY I WAS MAKING
[01:15:01]
IT TO ME, UH, IT'S A LITTLE LEFT FOR LEFT TO INTERPRETATION AT THIS POINT WITHOUT HAVING A SEAL DETAIL, UM, AND EVEN A JAM DETAIL.SO I WOULD HAVE THOSE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE.
I, WE'LL GO TO JUST A LITTLE BRIEF DISCUSSION ON THE COLUMN.
DO YOU HAVE A COLUMN, DETAIL DIMENSION? COLUMN DETAIL? UH, I KNOW I SEE COLUMNS IN THE ELEVATIONS.
I SEE COLUMNS IN THE ELEVATIONS.
I SEE A PICTURE OF A PROPOSED, UH, GO BY, UH, MOCK-UP FOR A COLUMN.
AND I HAVE CONCERNS WITH THE, THE SMALL DIMENSION THAT'S AT THE HEAD OF THAT COLUMN, THE CORNES OF THAT COLUMN.
THERE'S, I HAVE CONCERNS WITH THAT, THAT'S TOO SMALL AND IT'S NOT IN KEEPING WITH WHAT WOULD BE HISTORIC.
AND IT'S ALMOST ABSENT OF A, OF A CAPITAL OF THAT, OF THAT COR THAT COLUMN.
SO IF THERE'S COLUMN DETAILS TO, FOR US TO LOOK AT, TO ENSURE THAT THESE THINGS ARE GONNA GET BUILT AND NOT IN A CONTEMPORARY FASHION, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE DETAILS.
AND IF, IF THEY ARE, PLEASE POINT THEM OUT TO ME, WHAT SOMETHING
IF THEY'RE NOT, THEN I JUST HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT.
NOW THIS IS WHAT YOU SEE IN THE PACKET IS WHAT HE CURRENTLY HAS FOR HIS POINTS.
WE BUILT A, UH, HISTORIC HOME ON PARK ROW AND, UM, I MET EVERYTHING THAT WAS ASKED.
AND, UH, I'M NOT A ARCHITECT AND AN ENGINEER.
I'M A DEVELOPER AND I'LL JUST HAVE TO GO BACK AND GET WITH THE DESIGNER AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE, UH, ON TRACK AS, AS YOU SAID, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DIMENSIONS ARE, BUT IT'S GONNA BE THE DIMENSIONS TO HOLD UP THE FRONT PORCH THAT ARE IN, IN THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION GROUP.
ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS A QUESTION? CAN I GO FIRST? OKAY.
AND I KNOW THIS SOUNDS WEIRD, BUT WHAT HE WAS POINTING OUT WAS THAT YOUR LOT AS IT IS NOW, IS NOT THE TRADITIONAL TOPOGRAPHY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS KIND OF A KEY FEATURE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TOPOGRAPHY IN DALLAS.
AND IT'S NICE WE HAVE IT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
I KNOW THIS SOUNDS LIKE A BIG ASK, BUT HAVING BEEN MADE AWARE OF HOW MUCH IT HAS BEEN ALTERED WITHOUT OUR APPROVAL, THEY, THEY MOVED IT UP SO THAT IN THE BACK, SO IT'S ALL LEVEL IN THE BACK.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER GOING BACK TO THE OLD TOPOGRAPHY? I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH THAT EVEN COSTS.
BUT SEE, I'M, I'M, I DON'T RECALL, UM, THE EXACT TOPOGRAPHY I WALKED THAT LOT WHEN WE FIRST TOOK IT OVER.
AND I REMEMBER IT WAS, IT WAS A SLOPING LOT, BUT TOWARDS THE BACK OF IT HAD A MASSIVE DROP OFF DOWN.
UM, I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WHAT WAS DONE CHANGED THE LOT.
IT DID LEVEL THE LOT BECAUSE OF REMOVING THE DIRT AND TRYING TO LEVEL THE LOT, WHICH WE NEEDED TO DO TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T HAVE RUNOFF.
BUT I THINK THE LOT AS YOU SEE IT, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK UP THE STREET, IF YOU'RE FACING THAT HOUSE, UH, TWO EIGHT LANDS AND LOOK TO YOUR RIGHT, THE OTHER LOTS ARE LEVEL GOING UP THE STREET.
THE ONE THAT WAS USED AS, UM, UM, AN EXAMPLE IS RIGHT WHEN YOU START TO TURN INTO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT HOME HANGS OFF A CLIFF.
UM, I DON'T SUPPOSE YOU'VE TALKED TO THE NEIGHBORS AT ALL ABOUT WHETHER THEY FEEL IT HAS BEEN CHANGED OR WHETHER THEY'RE CONCERNED THAT WATER WILL RUN OFF YOUR FLAT LOT ONTO THEM.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S NICE TO TALK TO THE NEIGHBORS ABOUT YES, MA'AM.
I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT NO, THE WAY THAT IT SITS NOW, THERE'S SHOULDN'T BE ANY RUNOFF ON ONTO THE NEIGHBORS.
I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY WHAT I DON'T, I DON'T THINK COMMISSIONER SWAN GOT TO THE POINT OF ASKING HIS ACTUAL, ASKING YOU WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO.
I JUST WANTED TO ADD, UH, ONE MORE DETAIL TO THE CONDITIONS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS, UM, AND, UH, MR. SWAN ALLUDED TO IT AS WELL, WAS ADDING, UH, BRACKETS UNDERNEATH THE RAKE AT THE FRONT PORCH, UM, WHICH IS A, A TYPICAL CRAFTSMAN DETAIL.
THEY'RE NOT SHOWN ON THE ELEVATION AT THE MOMENT, BUT, UM, BUT THREE BRACKETS THERE WOULD, UH, WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN MAKING IT MORE OF A TRADITIONAL CRAFTSMAN ELEVATION.
[01:20:16]
IS THAT IT? OR, ALL RIGHTY.YEAH, I'M JUST, UH, I WAS LOOKING FOR A DRAWING THAT WOULD SHOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
UH, YOU MADE AN EXAMPLE OF NO, A PHOTOGRAPH, A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE ACTUAL SITE WHERE YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT THIS LOT, ALTHOUGH IT IS NOT AT THE HIGHEST POINT IN THE BLOCK, IT DROPS OFF ON EITHER SIDE, UH, TO THE HOUSES BELOW, WHICH FOLLOW THE GRATE.
AND IF BUILT AS IS, IT WOULD BE A HOUSE SITTING ON A MOUND, WHICH IS NOT HOW, AND I CAN SEE WHY IT WAS DONE, IT'S DONE.
THIS HAS BEEN DONE ROUTINELY OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD SO THAT PEOPLE CAN PUT SLAB FOUNDATIONS ON LOTS THAT ARE NOT APPROPRIATE FOR SLAB FOUNDATIONS.
AND, UM, AND GENERALLY IT'S DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT.
SOMETIMES IT'S DONE ON THE WEEKEND AND IT IS NEVER ADMITTED TO.
I CAN BELIEVE THAT YOU, HAVING LIVED THERE A LONG TIME, HAVE WITNESSED THIS.
STAFF DID HAVE A COMMENT WHEN I WAS QUESTIONING HIM ABOUT THAT, ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN ADDRESS.
WOULD STAFF LIKE TO HELP US BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER, CAN WE ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF HOW IT HAS BEEN GRADED OR DO YOU FEEL WE ARE GETTING BEYOND OUR PURVIEW AND THAT I, I THINK I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT IS ABOUT THE STREETSCAPE AND THE LANDSCAPE, BUT THIS IS ON PAGE D TWO DASH SIX.
ANY FURTHER, WE WANNA SEE WHETHER THEY THINK THIS IS JUST FIND YOURSELF A MICROPHONE, BUT, UH, CLAIM IT FOR YOURSELF.
THIS IS, UH, MARISSA HINES AT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
UH, FOR THE CERTI FOR, FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SO IF THE LANDSCAPING IS A PART OF THAT CRITERIA, UM, THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE.
BUT I ALSO THINK THE CONCERN IS THAT THIS MAY HAVE OCCURRED BEFORE, OR THE LOT WAS ACQUIRED AND WAS, IT WAS DUMPED AND GRADED, AND NOW YOU HAVE ACQUIRED, YOU'RE WORKING WITH THIS CITY TO DO THIS.
AND SO I'M NOT SURE YOU CAN GO BACK AND PENALIZE IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, I THINK IS KIND OF THE QUESTION.
RIGHT? IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PENALTIES, THAT WOULD BE, UM, A REFERRAL TO CODE COMPLIANCE IN THE PROSECUTION TO SEE WHAT THEY WOULD DO IN THAT, THAT INSTANCE.
BUT FOR THE CA IT'S NOT RELEVANT BESIDES LANDSCAPING IN, IN OTHER WORDS, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE APPLICANT CAN BE FORCED TO TAKE IT BACK WHEN HE WAS NOT THE ONE WHO MAY HAVE MADE THE CHANGE THAT WOULD GO TO THE LANDSCAPING.
AND IF THAT'S A PART OF THE, THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA, UM, WERE THERE ANY, DO WE HAVE A RECORD OF CODE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE DUMPING ON THERE THAT WOULD PROVE DUMPING OCCURRED?
AND WE DO HAVE TO RELUCTANTLY TELL THOSE NEW BUYERS THAT THEY ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR MEETING OUR REQUIREMENTS, EVEN THOUGH THEY INNOCENTLY BOUGHT A NON-CONFORMING PROPERTY THAT THEY, THEY DIDN'T KNOW HAD HAD A PROBLEM BEFORE.
IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION WHEN WE MUST FACE A PURCHASER THAT HAS LEARNED THIS SAD NEWS, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY, UM, ANY CODE COMPLIANCE ISSUES, BUT I THINK ADRIAN MAY BE CHECKING OUR CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER MUST HAVE A SECRET, YOU KNOW, PLACE SHE CAN LOG ONTO AND SEE THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
IT'S NOT SECRET
SO THERE ARE QUITE A FEW CODE, UH, VIOLATIONS HERE THAT WERE PUT IN DURING THIS TIME.
UH, MOST OF THEM I'M SEEING SOME WITH LITTER REMOVAL AND SOME WHERE THEY'RE, THEY WERE CONSIDERING THE CONSTRUCTION STARTING.
I'M STILL TRYING TO PULL THEM UP, UH, TO CONFIRM WHETHER OR NOT THE ACTUAL DUMPING IN THAT PORTION.
BUT I DO REMEMBER, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN THAT I WENT OUT THERE
[01:25:01]
TO RESPOND TO THE GRADING OF THE LOT AND ALL OF THAT AT ONE POINT IN TIME.UH, I DON'T SEE ALL OF THE CASES THAT ARE ON THIS ADDRESS APPEAR TO BE CLOSED.
EVEN THERE WAS ONE WITH INTENSIVE CASE RESOLUTION THAT WAS BACK IN 2021.
UH, SO THEY DO APPEAR TO ALL HAVE BEEN CLOSED.
UH, BUT THEY, I THINK THEY WERE MOSTLY DUE TO LITTER, HIGH WEEDS AND THE CONSTRUCTION WITHOUT A PERMIT R C A.
IT APPEARS WE HAVE A BIT OF A QUANDARY HERE.
MR. SWAN IS MAKING A CASE, UM, YOU UNDERSTAND THE CASE HE'S MAKING? YEAH, NO, I'M, I'M IN, I'M, I'M, YEAH, UH, KELVIN WILLIAMS WITH NEW VISION PROPERTIES IS THE ACTUAL BUILDER.
I JUST ASKED HIM, WE HAVEN'T CHANGED ANYTHING ON THE LOT.
WE DID REMOVE THE DIRT FROM THE LOT THAT WAS THERE AND SMOOTHED IT OUT.
SO, I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE, UH, MR. SWAN IS, IS IT COMMISSIONER SWAN? YEAH, IT'S COMMISSIONER SWAN.
IT'S SAYING WHO IS NOTING THAT IT USED TO BE A SLOPE AND, AND THAT WAS THE TRADITIONAL WAY.
SO WE HAVE THAT ISSUE, BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE ISSUE OF WE'RE NOT SURE THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO, I MEAN, I ASKED YOU NICELY IF YOU WANTED TO SMOOTH IT OUT AND YOU SAID, I'M GONNA MAKE IT A HILL, AND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO.
AND I WAS NOT SHOCKED BY THE WAY,
BUT, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO AT THIS POINT HERE BECAUSE IT MAY NOT BE WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO DO THIS AS BEST IF YOU SAY EVERYBODY ELSE HAS GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT.
I KNOW WE DON'T WANNA REWARD PEOPLE GETTING AWAY WITH STUFF MR. SWAN, BUT IF THEY'VE ALL MADE THEIRS MORE LEVEL, I AM UNCOMFORTABLE, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO.
WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TO LOOK AT IS D TWO DASH SIX IN OUR, THE MATERIAL, THE AGENDA MATERIALS PAGE D TWO DASH SIX, AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY TO THE LEFT, THE SKIRT GETS LIKE, IT, IT FOLLOWS THE GROUND AS IT FALLS AWAY, YOU SEE THE WHITE HOUSE ON THE LEFT? YEAH.
AND YOU, YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN, RIGHT? YES.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE, THE, THE, HOW THAT HOUSE FOLLOWS THE CONTOUR OF THE LAND IN 10TH STREET FASHION.
SOMETIMES THE SLOPE IS SO DRAMATIC THAT YOU HAVE AN OPEN UNDERNEATH, LIKE A, ESSENTIALLY A SECOND STORE, UH, LIKE A, UH, A BASEMENT LEVEL, UH, BECAUSE THE FALL IN THE LAND CREATES THAT.
NOW ON THE YELLOW HOUSE ON THE RIGHT, UH, SOME OF THAT IS OBSCURED, BUT I THINK YOU CAN SEE WHERE THERE'S, THERE'S A HORIZON AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE, SEE THE WHITE FENCE BEHIND THE YELLOW HOUSE.
IT DROPS OFF SEVERELY RIGHT THERE WHERE THAT WHITE FENCE IS ON THE LOT AT TWO EIGHT LANDIS.
AND THAT IS A HILL THAT IS CALLED SPRING HILL.
IT'S A HISTORIC SUB NEIGHBORHOOD OF THE DISTRICT NAMED FOR THE HILL THAT IT'S SITTING ON THE HILL THAT IS BEING NOW TERRACE INSTEAD OF, UH, BEING ALLOWED TO BE THE HILL THAT GAVE IT ITS NAME.
WELL, I, UM, COMMISSIONER SWAN, I'M GONNA RE RESPECTFULLY TELL YOU, I HAVE PERSONALLY WALKED THIS LOT AND I WALKED IT NOT TWO WEEKS AGO.
AND I KNOW THAT WHAT WE HAVE DONE AND WHAT IS HAS HAPPENED ON THAT LOT HAS NOT CHANGED THE BACK OF THAT LOT.
WELL, ALL I'M SAYING IS IF THE, IF THE SITUATION THAT IS DEPICTED IN D TWO SIX ON PAGE D TWO SIX PERTAINS, THEN IT IS, UH, IT USUALLY JUST SAYS IT IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE HOUSES ON EITHER SIDE OF IT.
IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE WAY THAT THE GROUND IS MET BY THE OTHER STRUCTURES ON THIS BLOCK.
AND THAT'S MY PROBLEM WITH IT.
AND, AND THE THING IS, SOME OF THESE ARE RELATIVELY SUBTLE.
THIS IS A RELATIVELY SUBTLE CONDITION COMPARED TO SOME OF THE ONES.
UH, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU SAY, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT THAT FAR OFF.
WELL, THEN YOU GET SITUATIONS WHICH WE HAVE CONSTANTLY WHERE YOU HAVE MS. MS. HORN, THAT'S YOUR TIME.
DO YOU, UM, THE, THE HOUSE THAT YOU HAVE CURRENTLY IS DESIGNED FOR THE LOT AS IT IS, CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.
HAVE, UM, WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH, UH, HOUSING DEPARTMENT ABOUT THIS IN PARTICULAR AS A PART OF THE PROGRAM, WERE THERE ANY DISCUSSIONS OR INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU THAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO REQUIRE OR, OR TO ANTICIPATE THAT YOU WERE GOING TO NEED TO REGRADE THE SITE OR TO, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, ALTER THE, UM, ELEVATIONS THAT IT WAS CURRENTLY? WAS THAT EVER A PART OF YOUR CONVERSATION? NO, MA'AM.
HOW VIABLE IS THE PROJECT IF YOU WERE TO, UM, TRY TO GO BACK AND, AND, AND AFFECT THE TOPOGRAPHY BEYOND THE WAY IT IS TODAY? IT'S NOT VIABLE.
YEAH, THE, UM, THE CITY LAND BANK PROGRAM THAT WE'RE IN, WE ARE, WE'RE RESTRICTED ON WHAT WE CAN SELL THE HOMES FOR MM-HMM.
[01:30:01]
WE'RE, WE'RE RUNNING OUTTA ROOM.HAVE YOU HAD ANY ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATION WITH THE, UM, UM, HOUSING DEPARTMENT AS YOU'VE GONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS BACK AND FORTH, THE DESIGN PROCESS AND THINGS LIKE THAT? UM, HAVE THEY GENERALLY BEEN SUPPORTIVE? HAVE THEY PROVIDED ANY INFORMATION OR GUIDANCE? OH, THEY'RE, NO.
THEY'RE SUPER SUPPORTIVE, BUT I MEAN, I'VE NOT GOT ANY INFORMATION.
WE'VE JUST LETTING THEM KNOW THAT WE'RE, I MEAN, ROLLING OUT THE RED CARPET TO MAKE SURE WE MEET ALL THE GUIDELINES FOR THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
AND IT'S NOT THE ONLY AREA THAT WE'RE GONNA BE BUILDING IN AND HAVE BUILT IN WITH HISTORIC MM-HMM.
DID THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT, UM, AS THEY WERE GOING THROUGH THE POTENTIAL LOTS, HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH YOU ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS WAS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN? I DO NOT RECALL.
UH, WE, WE, WE'VE ROAMED AROUND ON A COUPLE OF THINGS AND, AND NOT COME TO A SOLUTION, BUT DOES THAT, SOMEBODY KNEW
DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY NEW QUESTIONS? OTHERWISE, WE DO NEED TO MOVE FORWARD TO A MOTION AFTER WHICH WE CAN DISCUSS, BUT IF THERE IS NOT ANOTHER QUESTION OR A CONTINUATION OF A QUESTION, WE'RE GOING TO NEED A MOTION.
UM, I'M TRYING TO PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND SEE IF IT COULD BE SUBJECT TO SOME, UM, CHANGES THAT MIGHT PACKAGE IT OUT TO BE ACCEPTED.
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO COME UP WITH A MOTION THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS, BUT OF COURSE, DEFINING THE CONDITIONS SO THEY'RE NICE AND CLEAR IS A CHALLENGE THAT WE DO.
THAT'S WHY DO WE HAVE ARCHITECTS ON THIS? SO LET US GIVE THE ARCHITECTS OR WHOEVER ELSE IS THINKING ABOUT IT A MOMENT.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION MOMENT? YES.
MEANWHILE, COURTNEY'S POLICY WILL ENTERTAIN US WITH A QUESTION
UM, COULD YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO, UM, THE IDEA ABOUT, UM, ARE, ARE YOU OPEN TO DOING THE, THE PURE AND BEAM IN THE, IN THE MANNER AT WHICH, UH, STAFF DISCUSSED IT WITH YOU? YOU KNOW, I AM, I'M, BUT I'M, AGAIN, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, SO MM-HMM.
AND THE LOT THAT THIS PARTICULAR LOT IS COMMISSIONER SWANS POINTED OUT IS, IS A SLOPE LOT FALLS OFF DRASTICALLY TO THE BACK.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO, AS, AS BUILDERS, UM, REPRESENT THAT.
DOES THE A APPEAR AND BEAM, UH, SWITCHING THE, UH, THE FOUNDATION TO THAT, DOES THAT MAKE THE PROJECT ECONOMICALLY VIABLE OR DOES IT AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO CONTINUE WITH THE PROJECT? UM, I CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT.
YOU KNOW, I JUST GO AGAIN OFF OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN, UH, TOLD IS THE BEST FOUNDATION FOR THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION.
YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, OUT OUTTA RESPECT TO THE GROUP, IF YOU JUST GO AROUND THAT, THAT AREA, YOU CAN SEE OF COURSE THERE, YOU KNOW, 16, 70 YEAR OLD HOMES, BUT THERE'S NOT ONE THAT'S GOT A FLAT FOUNDATION.
I'M GLAD THAT YOU NOTICED THAT, THAT YOU EXPLORE THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THAT IS A, A PART OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE CONCERNED.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE WORRIED ABOUT EVERYTHING ON EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD.
IN ALL FAIRNESS, THE, SO THE UH, HUNDRED AND MORE YEAR OLD HOMES THAT YOU ARE SEEING WERE, UH, BUILT ON BOAT ARK AND CEDAR POSTS THAT WERE SIMPLY DRIVEN INTO THE GROUND.
I'VE TAKEN ONE OF THESE HOUSES APART, I KNOW HOW THEY MEET THE GROUND.
THEY WEREN'T ON SPREAD FOOTINGS, THEY WEREN'T MODERN CONCRETE, UH, POSTS ON SPREAD FOOTINGS, WHICH IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT KIND OF ANIMAL FROM A, UH, A BOAR OR CEDAR POST THAT MAY GO THIS FAR INTO THE GROUND AND SIT ON THE SOIL, SIR.
AND OF COURSE IT DOES SAY SOMETHING FOR THIS HOUSE THAT YES, THEY MAY BE A LITTLE BIT WONKY, BUT THEY'VE STOOD SOME OF THEM FOR OVER 125 YEARS ON THOSE FOUNDATIONS.
NOW WE REALLY NEED TO GOOD LIFE FOR STRUCTURE IN MODERN, MY MODERN STANDARDS 110 YEARS OLD ON THOSE LITTLE POSTS.
I CAN'T OPEN THE BACK DOOR RIGHT NOW, BUT IT WILL RAIN AND I WILL OPEN THE BACK DOOR.
UM, DOES ANYBODY WE TO GIVE US A MOTION YET? AND I DID SAY WE, I SOUND LIKE THAT GUY THAT HUNTED BUG BUNNY, BUT
I MEAN, I, I WANT TO, I WANNA DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE COMMUNITY.
I WANNA DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THAT AREA.
UM, I'M BIG ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION, SO, YOU KNOW, THE THINGS THAT, UM, UM, MR. CUMMINGS AND RONALD HAS SAID, I'M, I'M OPEN TO ALL THAT.
UM, I, I JUST WANNA GET IT DONE AND GET ON DOWN THE ROAD.
WELL, LET US SEE IF WE HAVE A MOTION THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER RENO, AND WE ARE, ARE ALL SUPPORTING YOU.
[01:35:01]
UH, REGARDING ITEM TWO, UM, CA 2 23 DASH, UH, FOUR EIGHT, UH, RD, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS, UH, 2 0 8 LANDIS STREET THAT WE, UM, APPROVE THE, UM, UH, THE, UH, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AS AS, UM, AS STATED WITH THE ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS THAT, UM, A TWO FOOT OVERHANG WITH, UM, UH, OPEN RAFTERS, UH, AT THE END.AND, UH, BRACKETS, THREE BRACKETS BE ADDED ON THE FRONT PORCH.
UM, AND THEIR DIMENSIONS WOULD BE FOUR INCHES BY FOUR INCHES.
UH, THAT SKIRTING IS ADDED AT THE FLOOR LINE, UM, DOWN THE FACE OF THE, UM, CONCRETE FOUNDATION, UM, WITH THE ADDITION OF A WATERFALL AT THAT TRANSITION.
AND THE SKIRTING MATCH THE, THE WOOD SIDING THAT THE STEPS AT THE FRONT AND REAR PORCH HAVE RISERS OF 11 INCHES AND, UH, RISERS AT A MAXIMUM OF SEVEN AND A HALF BASICALLY TO MEET GRADE.
UM, AND THAT THE WINDOW DETAILS, UM, INCLUDING, UH, HEAD JAM AND SILL BE ADDED, UH, REALIZING THAT THOSE, THEY'RE SHOWN AT THREE FEET BY SIX FEET CURRENTLY.
UH, JUST TO VERIFY WHAT THAT DIMENSION ACTUALLY IS AND THAT THE FRONT PORCH COLUMNS, UM, HAVE A, UH, SQUARE PROPORTION RATHER THAN A TAPERED PROPORTION AT, UM, 10 INCHES WIDE.
AND THAT CONCLUDES THE, UM, THE, UH, CONDITIONS AND THAT THEY MEET, UM, THE, UH, LET'S SEE, UH, BOTH CITY CODE, UM, CONDITIONS AS STATED, UH, BY STAFF AND ALSO THE, UH, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR GUIDELINES, UH, FOR THE DISTRICT AND NEIGHBORHOOD.
DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THIS? ONE SECOND.
OH, THAT'S WHY IT WAS SO LOUD.
I WAS LOOKING AT THEM ON THE SCREEN FOR SOME REASON.
NOW IS THE TIME WHEN COMMISSIONERS COMMENT IF THEY WISH.
I NEED A LITTLE, EVEN THOUGH I WAS INVOLVED.
A LITTLE CLARIFICATION ON THE RISER IN THE TREAD RATIO, TYPICALLY RISERS ARE SEVEN INCHES AND THE TREAD IS UM, 11.
SO WHAT DID WE STATE IN THE CONDITION? WE STATED HAVE IT BACKWARDS.
I THINK IT WAS BACKWARDS BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD 11 INCH PROMISE TREADS.
I MEANT TO SEARCH, I APOLOGIZE.
YEAH, THAT IS HOW I WROTE IT DOWN.
SEVEN AND A HALF, SEVEN AND A HALF INCH RISER AND AN 11 INCH TREAD.
YEAH, THEY'LL FEEL NORMAL WHEN YOU WALK UP AND YOU WON'T FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO TURN YOUR FOOT IN ORDER TO STAY ON THE WALK ON YOUR TIPPY TOES.
ALRIGHT, SO THAT'S JUST A CLARIFICATION.
THAT IS NOT A CHANGE IN THE MOTION.
JUST A MISSPEAKING WHILE GIVING IT AND IT BE, BE SLAB COMMENTS.
WELL, IN CONTRARY TO WHAT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS, IT WOULD BE A SLAB CONSTRUCTION AS OPPOSED TO APPEARING BEAM.
I BELIEVE HE SAID FOLLOW THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON THE FOUNDATION.
ALRIGHT, MR. SWAN, YOU HAVE YOUR MICROPHONE ON.
IS IT BECAUSE YOU WISH TO SPEAK NOW? UH, NO.
I DUNNO THAT I NEED TO SPEAK FIRST, BUT YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO SAY, BUT I OKAY.
LET ME, I'M, I'M GONNA BACK OUT AND LET THE MAKER OF THE MOTION SPEAK TO HIS OWN MOTION.
I BELIEVE TO MR HAS ANOTHER COMMENT ON THAT.
WELL, SO YEAH, I'M, I'M, I'M CONFUSED BECAUSE WITHIN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, IT REFERENCES THE CONDITION THAT THE FOUNDATION BE, UH, PURE AND BEAM OR CONCRETE POST AND BEAM.
SO THE, THE MOTION WOULD NEED TO BE AMENDED TO INCLUDE, UH, A SLAB, UH, WITH THE PEERS AS DESIGNED IN THE, IN THE LAST PROPOSAL.
SO THAT WOULD BE, BE, SO THAT WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION, A FOUNDATION THAT IS 24
[01:40:01]
INCHES DEEP THOUGH.AND SO THAT THE COST IS TALL ENOUGH.
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO RESTATE THE MOTION? UH, COMMISSIONER
MR. ANDERSON, I'M GONNA CHIME IN HERE.
SO DO YOU SEE THE STRUGGLE HERE? THE STRUGGLE IS THAT WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU, I'M SORRY.
I DIDN'T, THE STRUGGLE BEING THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A, A SLAB FOUNDATION AMIDST A SEA OF APPEARING BEAM CONSTRUCTION, IF THE SLAB, THE STRUCTURAL WILL APPEAR TO SINK INTO THE GROUND UNLESS THE SLAB IS SO HIGH THAT IT APPEARS, YOU KNOW, TO THE PERSON DRIVING BY IT COULD EASILY BE PEERING BEAM.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET.
WELL, THIS, THIS IS GONNA BE A PEER SLAB AND, AND THAT WAS BY THE ENGINEER'S REQUEST? YES.
OKAY THEN, AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK, BUT SHE ASKED YOU TO, SO IT'S OKAY,
SHE ASKED YOU TO, UM, SO IF COMMISSIONER BNOT WOULD STATE IT, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, A PEER SLAB, PLEASE RESTATE YOUR MOTION WITH THAT IN IT.
YES, THE, CAN I MAKE A, CAN I MAKE A COMMENT QUICKLY BEFORE WE GO BACK AND CHANGE THE MOTION? THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IT'D BE 24 INCHES AT THE FRONT, UH, SO THAT IT'S PROMINENT OF THE SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S 24 IN THE BACK AND SIX IN THE FRONT.
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE MAKE NOTE THAT IT'D BE 24 INCHES, UH, AT THE MINIMUM OR AT THE FRONT OR HOWEVER YOU WANNA STATE IT, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THESE HOUSES GET AS, AS, UH, MS. SHERMAN SAID THEY GET KIND OF DUG INTO THE GROUND AND IT, YOU MAY NOT HAVE 24 FEET WHERE YOU REALLY WANNA SEE IT IN THE FRONT.
SO NOW I THINK IT IS TIME FOR COMMISSIONER RENO TO RESTATE HIS MOTION, CLARIFYING WHETHER HE WISHES TO, TO SEE IT, HAVE THE FOUNDATION THAT THE APPLICANT HAS JUST REMINDED US IS WHAT HE REALLY WANTS TO DO.
UM, SHOULD I START FROM THE TOP? YEAH, YEAH.
THE FRONT PORCH HAVE THE ADDITION OF THREE, UH, BRACKETS, UH, TO SUPPORT THE RAKE THAT, UM, THE SLAB OR THAT THE FOUNDATION BE SLAB WITH A MINIMUM, MINIMUM OF 24 INCHES, UH, EXPOSED AT THE FRONT ELEVATION.
THAT THE SKIRTING ON THAT FOUNDATION, UM, EXTEND, UH, THE, THE SIDING OF THE HOME TO WITHIN SIX INCHES OF THE, UH, OF THE GROUND.
AND THAT THE SKIRTING THAT'S ON THE FOUNDATION ITSELF HAVE A WATER TABLE THAT THE STEPS LEADING TO BOTH PORCHES IN THE FRONT AND THE BACK HAVE A TREAD OF 11 INCHES AND RISERS AT A MAXIMUM OF SEVEN AND A HALF INCHES.
THAT THE WINDOW DETAILS, UH, HEAD JAM AND SILL BE PROVIDED AND THAT THE SIZES OF THE WINDOWS BE PROVIDED.
THAT THE COLUMN, UH, OR THE, THE, UM, THE COLUMNS AT THE FRONT PORCH BE A COMBINATION OF, UH, MODULAR BRICK AT THE BASE, UH, THREE INCHES OR THREE FEET TALL, AND THEN 10 INCHES OF WOOD, UH, SQUARE BOX COLUMNS, UH, LEADING UP TO THE BOTTOM OF THE, UM, OF THE, UH, OF THE ROOF.
AND THAT CONCLUDES THE CONDITIONS? NO, I GOT THOSE.
AND THE BRACKETS AT THE ROOF, UM, BE, UH, CONSTRUCTED OF, UH, FOUR INCH MATERIAL, FOUR BY FOUR INCH, UH, WOODEN MATERIAL.
AND THAT IF, UH, IT, THAT THESE CONDITIONS BE MET THAT THE PROPOSED WORK THEN BE CONSISTENT WITH A PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SECTION B UNDER NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS, UH, ACCORDING TO THE STANDARDS OF THE CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501, UH, G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THAT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR SETTINGS, UH, WITHIN, UH, DISTRICT AND NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO THE SECOND THIS RESTATEMENT YOU STILL SUPPORT? YES.
AND, AND LET ME NOTE FOR THE APPLICANT, SHOULD THIS MOTION BE PASSED AND IT, IT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING FORTH WITH STAFF
[01:45:01]
WOULD BE HAPPY TO ELABORATE ON ANY OF THAT OR CONSULT WITH MR. RENO ANY IF HE DIDN'T EXPLAIN IT WELL ENOUGH.NOW IF WE PASS THIS ONE NOW COMMENTS ON THIS CLARIFIED MOTION THAT IS ON THE TABLE.
COMMISSIONER SPEY? YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE COMMISSIONER.
COULD YOU, UH, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS BEHIND ACCEPTING, UM, THAT, THAT CHANGE IN THE FOUNDATION WITH THE ENGINEER'S REPORT, IT SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE REALLY TRYING TO ENGINEER THEIR WAY TOWARDS APPEAR AND BEAM.
AND SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF HEAR WHAT SOME OF YOUR THOUGHTS WERE IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW THEY'RE GONNA GO WITH A, WHAT IS IT WITH A PEER LAB? YEAH.
UM, YEAH, IT'S APPEARANCE LAB.
I HAVE A FEELING FOR INSTANCE, THAT THEY ADDED THE 15 FOOT DEEP PIERS.
UH, IT WAS PROBABLY TO MITIGATE THE FACT THAT THE, UM, SOIL HAD BEEN ADDED TO THE EXISTING, UM, UH, NATURAL GRADE.
SO IT'S HELPING TO STABILIZE AND, AND MINIMIZE ANY MOVEMENT OF THAT.
UH, AND THE FACT THAT, I MEAN, I THINK THE, 'CAUSE IT IS A STRUCTURED SLAB ABOVE THAT TOO.
I COULD, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF THE VERY LAST DECISION OR THE LAST DESIGN OR THE ONE RIGHT BEFORE THAT HAD, UM, POST TENSIONING IN IT, UHHUH
UM, BUT IT EFFECTIVELY ACTS LIKE A, LIKE A WOODEN FLOOR.
I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE REALLY SUPPORTING IT OFF OF THE, THE PIERS.
UH, AND THEN THE, UH, THAT STRUCTURED SLAB ACTS ACTS AS BEAMS ON TOP OF THOSE PIERS.
I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON THAT SAME TOPIC.
LET'S LET COMMISSIONER GUS GO BECAUSE HE'S BEEN, I WAS, I WAS JUST GONNA FOLLOW UP ON COMMISSIONER RENA'S, UM, COMMENTS.
THE, UH, THE FACT THAT IT'S A APPEARED FOUNDATION LENDS ME TO BELIEVE THAT THE ENGINEER WANTS TO GO BACK DOWN TO ORIGINAL SOIL, WHICH IS WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.
IF, IF THE SOIL IN, IN MOST CASES WHERE SOIL IS ADDED, UNLESS IT'S IT'S ADDED IN LIFTS AND COMPRESSED TO THE RIGHT, UM, QUALIFICATIONS, THEN THEN YOU CAN DO A, A, A, A SLAB FOUNDATION.
BUT WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO DO THAT, YOU DO HAVE TO SINK PIERS DOWN TO GO BACK TO ORIGINAL SOIL, WHICH IS ALSO LENDING TO THE FACT THAT THERE WAS ADDED DIRT TO, TO HERE AND WHY THEY'RE GOING TO A PEER SLAB FOUNDATION INSTEAD OF PEER AND BEAM OR A SLAB FOUNDATION IF IT WAS ORIGINAL FLAT SITE CO.
DO WE KNOW IF WE HAVE A GEOTECH REPORT UPON THIS SO WE ACTUALLY KNOW WHERE THE, THE ROCK IS STAFF OR APPLICANT OR? I, I THINK THE ENGINEERING REPORT SPECIFICALLY REFERENCED THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE ONE.
I, I DON'T, SO WE'RE KIND OF GUESSING WHERE THE ROCK IS HERE.
LET ME, I'LL, LET ME LOOK BACK UP.
BUT I, I THOUGHT IT, IT SAID, OKAY, I'VE WORKED WITH THESE AS WELL AND A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, AT THAT WELL EXPLAIN EVERYTHING OF WHERE, WHERE THAT ROCK IS, WHERE THAT LIMESTONE IS.
UM, SO ANYWAY, SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, WELL, I THINK WE COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEAR ON WHAT IT CAN AND CAN'T HAVE.
I MEAN, LIKE, UH, COMMISSIONER SWAN SAID ONCE BEFORE, PEERING BEAM WITH BOAR PIERS, I'VE WORKED WITH A LOT OF BOAR PI AND THEY WERE THERE FOR A HUNDRED YEARS AND IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY HIT THEY WERE HITTING ROCK OR NOT.
YOU KNOW, WHERE THE GEOTECH REPORT WOULDN'T LET US TELL THAT.
DID IT HAVE MOVEMENT AFTER A WHILE? YEAH, A HUNDRED SOMETHING YEAR OLD BUILDING THAT, THAT KIND OF, UH, GETS NEGLECTED FOR A CO A DECADE OR TWO.
YEAH, IT CAN, BUT ANYWAY, I'D LIKE TO SEE IT WHAT THE GEOTECH REPORT SAYS.
THE FACT THAT THE, WELL, THERE'S TWO THINGS ON, ON THE PIERS THEMSELVES.
THEY ARE BELLED AT THE BOTTOM, WHICH MEANS IT'S TRYING TO RESIST THE WEIGHT ON ITS OWN, NOT, NOT NECESSARILY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO BEDROCK.
AND THE OTHER THING WAS THAT THE FACT THAT IT'S 15 FEET DEEP IS ALSO RESISTING SOME FRICTION THERE TOO AS WELL.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING IF THEY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING AT.
OR SOMETIMES THEY PUT THAT AS A CAVEAT TO CATCH THEMSELVES TO SAY, DEPENDING ON WHERE WE GET THIS WILL COVER, THIS WILL, THIS WILL COVER THE DESIGN.
IF I MIGHT INTERRUPT, GENTLEMEN, I'M SORRY.
CLEARLY Y'ALL KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT I SUSPECT THAT THE, UM, STRUCTURAL STABILITY OF IT IS NOT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW SO LONG AS IT DOESN'T FLOAT AWAY SOON.
WE'RE MORE ABOUT DOES IT LOOK RIGHT IN THE FRONT? WELL, SO I KNOW YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT COMES WAY, IT COMES INTO QUESTION DEPENDING ON WHAT MIGHT, WHAT THE AESTHETICS ARE GONNA BE, MIGHT AND COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS.
SO IT IS IN THE, UM, THE AGREEMENTS AND LIMITATIONS BEHIND, HE SPECIFICALLY REFERENCES THE FACT THAT THIS IS OWNER SUPPLIED INFORMATION OR WHAT COULD BE OBSERVED, BUT HE DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO ANY GEOTECHNICAL DATA SUPPLIED BY, UM OKAY.
SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING IF THE CLEAR PICTURE WOULD BE, HAVE TO KNOW WHERE THE DEPTH IS ON THAT, ON THAT, AND TO KNOW THAT YOU HAD TO DO THIS PARTICULAR DESIGN AND STRUCTURE OR NOT WITHOUT THAT.
I KNOW A LOT OF ENGINEERS WILL GO AHEAD AND PUT SOMETHING THAT WILL
[01:50:01]
COVER IT IF THEY DON'T HIT ROCK, IF THEY DON'T KNOW AS BEING ON A VERY WELL COULD BE ROCKED THERE.UM, BUT ANYWAY, SO IT'S HARD TO, HARD TO BE REALLY CLEAR WITHOUT THAT LAST BIT OF INFORMATION.
UH, AND I KNOW ENGINEERS ARE VERY, VERY KNOWN FOR OVER-ENGINEERING AND SAYING, LET'S JUST, LET'S PUT THIS IN AND THIS WILL COVER US NO MATTER WHAT AND WE CAN BACK THAT OFF AND WE'LL HAVE MAYBE A LITTLE SAVINGS IF IT DOESN'T.
BUT FOR THE FOUNDATION, LET'S REMEMBER FOR US, OUR MAIN CONCERN IS THAT THE HOUSE APPEARS TO BE ENOUGH OFF THE GROUND TO REFLECT THE NORM FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE HISTORICAL WAY THAT THEY TENDED TO LOOK.
AND WE WISH THEM WELL WITH THEIR FOUNDATION AS WELL, BUT THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHY WE ARE BACKING OFF A SOUND RECOMMENDATION, A CONDITION MADE BY STAFF.
THE ONLY FOUNDATIONS THAT ARE PRESENT IN 10TH STREET ARE PIER AND BEAM FOUNDATIONS.
THAT'S A CONCRETE PIER AND A CONCRETE BEAM.
YOU FIND THOSE ONLY, THE ONLY ONE, THE ONLY TWO I KNOW OF ARE FOUR ARE, UH, 12, UH, 1123 EAST 10TH STREET, WHICH IS BUILT IN 1947 AND 1406, UH, EAST CHURCH STREET, WHICH WAS BUILT IN THE 1930S.
THESE CONCRETE, UH, PIER AND BEAM FOUNDATIONS DID NOT APPEAR IN 10TH STREET UNTIL THE 1930S.
AND OF COURSE I'M NOBODY'S ASKING THAT, UH, ANYBODY INSERT CONCRETE, UH, BOAR POSTS OR CEDAR POSTS IN THE GROUND AT THIS POINT.
BUT AS THE HOUSE AT 1220 NORTH STREET ILLUSTRATES, YOU CAN DO A GREAT SOLID MODERN APPROXIMATION OF A POST, UH, POST IN BEAM FOUNDATIONS WITH CONCRETE POSTS.
UM, AND THAT FOUNDATION, AND, AND REALLY YOU CAN DO THIS WITH A CONCRETE PYRAMID BEAM FOUNDATION TOO.
IT MEETS ALL THE SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS, UH, FOR DEFINING CHARACTER IN THE WAY A 10TH STREET HOUSE MEETS THE GROUND.
NAMELY, IT'S GOTTA BE SUFFICIENTLY HIGH OFF THE GROUND.
UM, AND SECOND IT FOLLOWS THE SKIRTING IS, IS PROFILED TO FOLLOW THE CONTOUR OF THE GROUND.
MY HUGE PROBLEM WITH THE SITUATION WE HAVE HERE IS THAT THIS MOUND OF DIRT THAT IS SITTING IN BETWEEN ITS TWO NEIGHBORS DOES NOT RESPECT THE CONTOUR ON EITHER SIDE OF IT.
WE HAVE A GOOD INDICATION OF WHAT THE APPROPRIATE CONTOUR IS.
ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS BRING IT BACK INTO A RESPECTFUL CONDITION WITH THE NEIGHBORS ON EITHER SIDE.
AND I THINK COMMISSIONER GUEST WAS RIGHT TO THE POINT WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT THE PI BEING, UH, BEING SPECIFIED BY THE ENGINEER TO GO INTO THE ORIGINAL SOIL.
UM, AND IF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSE ON EITHER SIDE, YOU ARE NOT THAT FAR AWAY FROM THE ORIGINAL SOIL.
EVEN IF YOU JUST CUT BACK THE MOUND ON EITHER SIDE SO THAT THE SKIRT COULD GO DOWN TO, UH, APPROXIMATELY THE SAME POINT AS THE SKIRTS ON EITHER SIDE OF IT, ON THE HOUSE, ON EITHER SIDE OF IT, INSTEAD OF MEETING A MOUND OF DIRT THAT THEN FALLS AWAY FROM THE HOUSE.
UH, HONESTLY, I DON'T THINK THAT SO MUCH OF THE ADDED DIRT EXISTS AT THIS POINT THAT YOU'D HAVE TO GO DOWN VERY FAR ON THE BACKSIDE TO JUST FOLLOW THE CONTOUR ON EITHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE AN ANOMALOUS LIKE MOUND CONDITION, WHICH IS NOT A 10TH STREET HOUSE.
AND, AND AS I SAY, THE, THE HOUSE AT 1220 NORTH STREET MAY BE AN EXTREME EXAMPLE, IT'S A NEARBY EXAMPLE, BUT IT SHOWS YOU WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE GO WITH THAT POST AND BEAM FOUNDATION BECAUSE IT IS ADAPTABLE TO ANY, ANY CONDITION THAT YOU FIND IN 10TH STREET.
AND IT DOESN'T CREATE THE CONDITION WHERE, WHERE THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE APPLICANT HAS A LOT THAT IS ALMOST LEVEL ENOUGH FIRST SLAB WHERE THEY GO IN IN THE DARK OF NIGHT AND ALTER IT AS WE HAVE SEEN HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, APPEAR.
AND UH, A POST AND BEAM FOUNDATION JUST KEEPS EVERYBODY HONEST.
IT ELIMINATES ALL THIS BACK AND FORTH ABOUT SLABS AND NONSENSE STAFF HAD IT RIGHT.
I THINK WE SHOULD STICK WITH WHAT STAFF SAID.
AND MOREOVER, WE SHOULD ASK THAT THE SKIRT MEET THE GROUND THE SAME WAY THAT IT DOES IN BOTH OF THE NEIGHBORS ON EITHER SIDE.
THAT'S ALL THAT I'M ASKING IS CONFORMITY WITH THE NEIGHBORS ON EITHER SIDE INSTEAD OF A HOUSE THAT SITS ON A MOUND WITH A SKIRT THAT JUST GOES DOWN TO THE TOP OF THE MOUND.
COULD I BE ANY MORE CLEAR? NO.
COMMISSIONER WAN, YOU'VE BEEN VERY CLEAR AND I THINK YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT POINT, THAT IF THAT BUILT UP PART WERE ONLY
[01:55:01]
THE WIDTH OF THE HOUSE, THEN YOU COULD BRING THE SKIRT DOWN AND YOU HIDE THAT IT GOT BUILT UP RIGHT.AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS, WE ARE NOT GONNA GO BACK AND REDO THIS PARTICULAR, UH, MOTION TO INCORPORATE THAT.
SO ANYONE WHO IS CONVINCED WELL BY MR. SWAN'S IDEA THAT THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA, WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS VOTE DOWN THIS MOTION AND START OVER WITH A NEW ONE.
ANYONE WHO THINKS THE WAY WE ARE GOING RIGHT NOW WITH THE FOUNDATION WOULD NEED TO SUPPORT THIS MOTION.
I'VE, I'VE GOT A FEW OTHER PROBLEMS IN THIS MOTION AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY THIS IS, WE'RE NOT GONNA TRY TO SWITCH THAT OUT RIGHT AT THIS POINT.
WE WILL HAVE A NO, I THINK, I THINK, I THINK THERE ARE TOO MANY ISSUES CURRENTLY THAT ARE UNRESOLVED.
THE OTHER ONE IS, IS A DETAILING ISSUE.
THE PROBLEM WITH THE COLUMN IS NOT THAT IT TAPERS A TWO-PART COLUMN IN 10TH STREET TRADITIONALLY DID TAPER, BUT IT HAD A COLUMN BASE AND A COLUMN CAPITAL.
THIS ONE HAS NEITHER, IT BARELY SITS ON A, UH, THE FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THE, UH, LOWER HALF OF THE COLUMN IS MADE OF.
IT'S, IT'S REALLY UNCLEAR AS TO MATERIAL.
THE, THE ILLUSTRATION LOOKS LIKE IT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THE, THE PHOTOGRAPH IS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPH.
I THINK THE STAFF SURMISED THAT IT MIGHT BE SOME KIND OF SHEET BRICK, BUT STAFF HAS A COMMENT THEY WISH TO MAKE AT THIS POINT.
UM, IN LOOKING AT THE MOTION, THE MOTION STATES THAT IT NEEDS TO BE MODULAR BRICK THREE FEET TALL AND THAT THERE WILL BE ON TOP OF THAT SQUARE WOOD COLUMNS.
THAT'S THE, THAT ARE 10 BY 10 AND NOT TAPERED.
AND, AND, AND REMEMBER WE'RE, WE'RE, UH, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION, NOT RECONSTRUCTION.
SO WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND TOO.
BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO RESPECT SOME BASIC, UH, UH, HISTORICAL ORDERS WHEN IT COMES TO, TO COLUMNS.
I MEAN A COLUMN THAT IS UNGRACEFUL BECAUSE IT DOESN'T RESPECT CLASSICAL ORDERS IN, IN JUST A BASIC, YOU KNOW, REINTERPRETED EARLIEST 20TH CENTURY KIND OF WAY IS GONNA BE AN EYESORE.
AND IT, YOU KNOW, ANY COLUMN YOU BUILD NOW IS GONNA BE CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATED FROM ANY COLUMN THAT WAS BUILT IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE, UH, OR THE FIRST QUARTER OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
SO RIGHT NOW THIS MOTION HAS A PARTICULAR COLUMN DESCRIBED ADEQUATELY IN WHAT WAS GIVEN TO US IN THE DOCKET.
THERE IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF A COLUMN AND A DRAWING OF A COLUMN, AND THEY'RE NOT THE SAME COLUMN.
SO WE DID HAVE AN ISSUE OF WHAT COLUMN DID THEY MEAN, RIGHT? SO WE ALREADY HAD THAT ASK AND ANSWER.
HEREM MAKING THE COLUMN THICKER AND DOESN'T, AND, AND TAKING AWAY THE GRACE OF A TAPER IS NOT A GOOD DIRECTION IF YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD A HOUSE THAT IS COMPATIBLE.
AND WHAT BUT IS ON THE FLOOR WITH THIS MOTION IS THE 12 INCH BOX COLUMN ON TOP OF A BRICK BASE, WHICH WE DO SEE, RIGHT? OH, WE SEE A LOT OF THEM.
CAN I MAKE IT JUST A SHORT STATEMENT, AT LEAST 10? IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT? OKAY, I WILL ADD THAT TO MY NOTES.
COMMISSIONER CU, ARE YOU DONE MR. SWAN? I THINK YOU'VE ABOUT GOT YOUR TIME.
WELL, THE LAST THING I'M GONNA SAY OBVI, I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS I CAN'T SUPPORT THE MOTION IS WRITTEN.
UH, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS, MY SHORT STATEMENT IS, I I'VE BEEN A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH, UH, UM, THE, THE MOTION.
NOT SO MUCH WITH MY UTMOST OF RESPECT, UH, FOR MY COMMISSIONERS.
UM, BUT I JUST THINK WE'RE ABOUT A MONTH TOO SHORT WHEN WE START ADDING SO MANY CONDITIONS AND WE DON'T SEE CERTAIN DETAILS AND WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DIMENSION AND THIS AND THAT.
IT'S JUST TELLING ME WE MIGHT JUST BE ONE MONTH, MONTH SHORT.
AND I, I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF IT, UH, STAFF WORKED WITH 'EM AND THEY RESUBMITTED AND WE, WE WERE CLEAR, THE PICTURE WAS CLEAR.
UM, AFTER 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 CONDITIONS, IT DOESN'T GET TO BE CLEAR ANYMORE.
AND I, YOU START HAVING A LITTLE RESERVATIONS ON IS IT GONNA BE REALLY FOLLOWED THROUGH TO THAT POINT.
SO I HAVE UNCOMFORTABLE APPROACH TO SUPPORT THE STATE THIS MOTION.
IT IS A POINT WE HAVE ADDRESSED BEFORE.
WE ALL TOLD HE KNEW IT WAS A HARD MOTION TO MAKE, BUT IF, IF WHEN WE PUT ON A LOT OF CONDITIONS WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THEM VERY CLEAR OR HOW WILL ENFORCEMENT KNOW WHAT WE MEANT? SO YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT THAT, THAT THEY NEED TO COME BACK TIME.
BUT WE ALWAYS WISH TO TRY TO HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH THE FIRST TIME IF WE POSSIBLY CAN.
IF IT TURNS OUT WE CANNOT, THAT IS UNFORTUNATE.
BUT IT WILL PROBABLY IN THE LONG RUN PRODUCE A BETTER PRODUCT BECAUSE THERE'S LESS CONFUSION GOING DOWN.
IF WE CAN APPROVE A PLAN THAT COMES BEFORE US EXACTLY AS IS, THEN EVERYBODY THE REST OF THE WAY, THE LINE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BUILD.
COMMISSIONER, ARE YOU WISHING TO SPEAK? GO AHEAD.
YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THE VOTE, PLEASE.
I CAN DO THAT AS SOON AS I MAKE SURE EVERYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK HAS SPOKEN.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS WHO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS OR COMMENT? ALL
[02:00:01]
RIGHT, THEN IT IS TIME TO CALL FOR THE VOTE.ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
COMMISSIONER OFFIT AND COMMISSIONER.
AM I CORRECT? AM I CORRECT THAT THOSE ARE THE ONLY THREE? NO, I'VE MENTIONED YOU.
ELAINE, NO WAIT, WE'LL DO THE OTHER SIDE.
ALL THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR, PLEASE SAY NAY, NAY, NAY, NAY, NAY, NAY.
I BELIEVE THAT OBVIOUSLY THE NAYS HAVE CARRIED, BUT LET'S DO THE ROLL CALL ANYWAY JUST TO BE DOUBLE SAFE.
DISTRICT ONE, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN NAYYY, DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY NAYYY.
DISTRICT THREE COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN NAYYY.
DISTRICT FOUR COMMISSIONER SWAN? NO.
DISTRICT FIVE COMMISSIONER OFFIT? YES.
COMMISSIONER HOSA, A DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER.
COMMISSIONER RENO SUPPORT DISTRICT 10 COMMISSIONER HADOOP SPORT DISTRICT 11.
A DISTRICT 12 COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER A DISTRICT 14 COMMISSIONER GUEST AGAINST DISTRICT 15.
THIS MOTION HAS NOT CARRIED, WE THEREFORE NEED A NEW MOTION.
I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE MORE DISCUSSION BEFORE OUR NEW MOTION UNLESS SOME COMPLETELY NEW AND DIFFERENT, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IDEA JUST POPPED INTO SOMEBODY'S HEAD.
I THINK THE NEXT THING SOMEONE NEEDS TO SAY IS ANOTHER MOTION THAT WE CAN VOTE ON.
STAFF ADVISES ME TO ASK COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS FOR A MOTION.
NORMALLY WE DO NOT PUT ANYBODY ON THE SPOT LIKE THAT.
I WILL, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
WOULD YOU CARE TO GIVE ANY STAFF DIRECTION ON THAT MOTION?
I I, YEAH, WE CAN OF COURSE REFERENCE THE DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN OCCURRING HERE.
I WOULD OKAY THEN I'LL REFERENCE, UM, THE MOTION THAT WAS MADE BEFORE THAT WITH ALL THE ITEMS AND HAVE, UH, STAFF WORK WITH THAT MOTION WITH THE APPLICANT.
UM, AND TO ALSO POSSIBLY, UH, SEE ABOUT A GEOTECH REPORT AND SEE IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.
AND I THINK STAFF CAN WORK WITH THAT.
THAT SEPARATE MOTION ON THIS DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
IS THAT GONNA AND YOUR REASONS? 'CAUSE MY REASON IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH HISTORIC OVERLAY OF THE DISTRICT.
IT'S, UM, WOULD BE AN ADVERSE EFFECT THE WAY IT'S STATED RIGHT NOW.
SO I THINK IF WE WORK WITH THE, UH, ITEMS IN THE PREVIOUS MOTION, I BELIEVE WE CAN GET THERE IN A SHORT RELATIVE TIME AND I THINK WE'LL ALL BE THE BETTER FOR IT.
AND WOULD YOU SUGGEST THAT AMONG THE ITEMS CONSIDERED BY STAFF WHEN WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT, SHOULD THIS MOTION CARRY THAT THEY CONSIDER WHAT COMMISSIONER SWAN THOUGHT OF AND I THOUGHT WAS REALLY IMPRESSIVE TOO TO TRY TO FAKE IT, THAT THEY DIDN'T PUT DIRT
THAT'S NOT SO MUCH DIRT TO REMOVE.
SURELY ONE NEEDS DIRT SOMEWHERE.
I, I'D LIKE TO KNOW NOW IF ANYONE WANTS TO SECOND THIS MOTION SECOND.
COMMISSIONER SWAN HAS SECONDED THIS MOTION.
DO WE HAVE ANY NEW DISCUSSION?
COMMISSIONER? UM, SPELL A SEAT.
YEAH, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND THE, UM, IS THE REQUEST BEHIND THE GEOTECH
[02:05:01]
ARE, ARE YOU REQUESTING THAT THEY PROVIDE ONE, ARE YOU ADVISING THAT IT'S JUST A GOOD IDEA? BECAUSE HERE'S THE ISSUE STRONGLY SUGGESTED.I, THAT'S NOT SO I, I THINK THE, IT IT'S ONE THING OVER TIME FOR IT TO BENEFIT OUR PROPERTY OWNERS TO ENGAGE, UM, YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTS AND DESIGNERS BECAUSE IT PROVIDES A LOT OF, OF REALLY GOOD EXTRA INFORMATION.
BUT I THINK WE SHOULD BE VERY HESITANT ABOUT TRYING TO SIGN ON.
UM, OR, OR THE IDEA OF HAVING PEOPLE GO OUT AND GET A GEOTECH REPORT AT, AT THIS POINT IT MIGHT BE IN HIS BEST INTEREST TO SIMPLY GO BACK TO HOUSING.
THAT'S, I WAS JUST STATING IT STRONGLY SUGGESTED, BUT NOT A REQUIREMENT.
BUT AT THIS POINT, IF, IF HE WAS LOOKING AT THE REALITY OF HAVING DIFFICULTY COMING BACK AND NOT PROVIDING THAT INFORMATION, I, I ALMOST WOULD SUGGEST TO GO BACK TO THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT AND SAY, I I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN MEET THE, THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS GIVEN THE PARAMETERS OF THE PROGRAM.
'CAUSE THAT PROGRAM WAS NOT INTENDED TO WITHSTAND COSTS LIKE THIS WHATSOEVER.
SO I, UM, YOU KNOW, I I I UNDERSTAND THE, THE STRONG ENCOURAGEMENT.
BUT I THINK, UM, I THINK THIS LAYER IS ABOUT TO KILL THIS PROJECT AND I THINK IT ULTIMATELY HARMS WHAT THE INTENT IS OF THE, OF THE PROGRAM.
AND BY THAT YOU SPECIFICALLY MEAN THE SUGGESTION THAT THEY GET THE GEOTECH REPORT, WHICH WOULD BE AN EXPENSIVE THING TO GET.
BUT NOW WE HAVE SAID THAT'S JUST A SUGGESTION, NOT A REQUIREMENT.
I I, BUT I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S THE POINT.
I THINK THE PART YOU THINK COULD BREAK IT, AND I IMAGINE IT COULD, IT SOUNDS LIKE AN EXPENSIVE THING HAS TO SIT DOWN AND SORT OF WAY AND EVALUATE HOW MUCH, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO I DO IN THE NEXT MONTH AND WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD IN THE NEXT MONTH IF I COME BACK AND I DON'T HAVE THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE THE, THE NUMBER DOESN'T, DOESN'T PENCIL OUT.
I MEAN, MAYBE IN TALKING TO THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT, THEY DECIDE LIKE, YOU KNOW, LET'S, LET'S GO AHEAD AND TRY IT, SEE WHAT HAPPENS AGAIN.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I, I, UM, ALRIGHT.
I PERSONALLY WOULDN'T WORK WITH, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIREMENT.
I, I WOULDN'T WORK WITH A, I, I MEAN, I WOULD WORK WITH, BUT I WOULD ALWAYS SUGGEST TO MY OWNER TO GET A GEOTECH REPORT BECAUSE IT'S A, IT'S A LIABILITY THAT WILL PAY FOR ITSELF.
AND I, I, I STRONGLY SUGGEST NOW DO THEY DO IT AND OR NOT DO IT? DOES THAT PREVENT ME? NO, IT DOESN'T PREVENT ME FROM WORKING WITH THEM, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S A VERY GOOD SOURCE OF INSURANCE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS A NEW PEER TO START CRACKING IN A NEW, OKAY.
SO THAT INFORMATION HAS NOW BEEN HEARD BY BOTH OUR STAFF HAS OUR APPLICANT HAS THE APPLICANT AND HIS POOL.
HAVE YOU EVER PROVIDED A GEOTECH REPORT FOR ANY OF YOUR LAND BANK PROPERTIES? I THINK COMMISSIONER PEL, THIS MIGHT BE GOING A LITTLE BIT FURTHER THAN IT NEEDS TO.
THAT'S TRUE OF A LOT OF THINGS.
YOU'VE NOW HEARD A LICENSED ARCHITECT'S RECOMMENDATION.
THAT'S A GREAT IDEA TO GET ONE THAT, THAT WE'RE NOT REQUIRING IT.
SO THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE PEOPLE INVOLVED.
COMMISSIONER SWAN, NEW INFORMATION.
THE FIRST THING I WANTED TO SAY THREE MINUTES AGO WAS THAT IN MY EXPERIENCE ON THE LANDMARK COMMISSION, ALMOST SEVEN YEARS NOW, A SUGGESTION HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF, OF A MOTION.
SUGGESTIONS ARE NOT PARTS OF MOTIONS.
IT'S NOT PART OF THE MOTION, IT'S THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT WE WANT THE STAFF TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM.
IT JUST DOESN'T BELONG IN THE MOTION.
SO THE MOTION IS DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE, WITH A FINDING OF FACT THAT THE DESIGN AS PROPOSED WOULD BE INCOMPATIBLE WITH HISTORICAL OVERLAY DISTRICT.
THAT'S MOTION, THAT'S THE MOTION.
AND AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER IN OUR BRIEFING, SOMETIMES YOU THEN SUGGEST THAT STAFF WORK WITH THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS THE VARIOUS THINGS THAT WE DISCUSSED TODAY.
NOW THAT'S NOT THE MOTION, THAT'S JUST GOOD ADVICE.
NEW DISCUSSION IS TO ASK THAT WE REFER TO PAGE, UM, OH GOSH, THIS IS WHERE MY, MY COMPUTER WON'T SCROLL.
HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT? UM, IT'S THE ONE WHERE THE CONTEXTUAL SIDE PLAN, I JUST CAN'T SCROLL DOWN FAR ENOUGH TO SEE WHAT PAGE NUMBER IT IS.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? 2 0 4 LANDIS 2 0 8 LANDIS TWO 12 LANDIS.
I CAN'T SEE THE PAGE NUMBER BECAUSE MY THERE ARE PENDING PAGE NUMBERS.
D 12 D, D 12 D TWO DASH 12 D TWO DASH 12.
AND, AND REALLY
IT IS CONSERVATIVE, IT'S REALLY CONSERVATIVE AND, AND THAT IT, IT IS RESPECTFUL OF THE FOOTPRINTS OF THE HOUSES ON EITHER SIDE.
AND THE FACT THAT IT DOES NOT EXTEND ANY FARTHER BACK, UH, IN THE REAR OF THE HOUSE SUGGESTS THAT YOU, YOU CAN ANTICIPATE THAT THE SOIL CONDITIONS, THE ORIGINAL SOIL CONDITIONS UNDER THIS HOUSE ARE GONNA BE PRETTY SIMILAR TO ITS NEIGHBORS AND THAT IT'S GONNA FALL, UH, WITHIN A,
[02:10:01]
UM, LET'S JUST SAY AN AREA, UH, OF UNDERLYING GEOGRAPHY WHERE YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM BUILDING A STABLE FOUNDATION WITH, UH, CONCRETE BOS OR PIERS.AND SO AGAIN, JUST LOOK TO EITHER SIDE, THIS IS IN CONFORMITY WITH, WITH WHAT'S ALREADY THERE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF, OF ITS FOOTPRINT AND WHERE IT EXTENDS BACKWARDS, WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT MEETS ALMOST LIKE IT ALMOST ALIGNS WITH THE, THE HOUSES, UH, UH, NEIGHBORING HOUSES IN THE BACK.
UM, SO JUST MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THEM.
THERE REALLY IS NO, NO PROPERTY IN 10TH STREET THAT YOU CAN'T, UH, WHERE YOU CAN'T PUT A HOUSE PRACTICALLY NO PROPERTY, EXCEPT IN A CREEK WHERE YOU CAN'T PUT A HOUSE WITH A PIER AND BEAM OR POST AND BEAM FOUNDATION.
THIS SHOULD NOT BE COMPLICATED.
I THINK, ELAINE, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON SUCH
UH, IT WAS COMMISSIONER LARRY OFFIT, UM, COMMISSIONER COURTNEY SPELL AND COMMISSIONER LOUIS RENE AND COMMISSIONER MARK DU.
SO THE VOTE WAS FOUR TO 11 ALRIGHTYY.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
I THINK IT IS TIME NOW FOR US TO VOTE ON THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR, WHICH IS DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY NAY.
ARE THERE ANY OTHERS WHO SAID NAY TO THIS COMMISSIONER? ROTHENBERGER NAY.
ANY OTHERS WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? ALL RIGHT.
I THINK WITH ONLY TWO NAYS WE CAN SAY THAT IT HAS CARRIED BY MAJORITY.
AT THIS POINT, SIR, MR. ANDERSON, I'M SORRY IT'S BEEN A QUITE A DAY FOR YOU.
I DUNNO IF YOU HEARD US TALKING EARLIER, WHAT I ALMOST ALWAYS MUST TELL YOU IS THAT BECAUSE YOU RECEIVED A TYPE OF DENIAL, YOU COULD GO TO C P C AND APPEAL OUR RULING FOR A FEE.
AND WHAT THEY WILL BE ASKING IS, DID WE RULE IN AN ERROR? IT'S KIND OF STRICT.
WHAT WE WANT YOU TO DO IS JUST TAKE WHAT YOU LEARNED HERE AND WORK WITH STAFF TO IMPROVE YOUR ALREADY REALLY GOOD PLAN AND MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT WILL PASS NEXT TIME.
AND WE THINK YOU CAN DO THAT AND STAFF CAN HELP YOU.
SO THAT IS WHAT I MUST ENCOURAGE YOU, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO IN YOUR PLACE, BUT I'M TOO CHEAP TO PAY THE FEE TO, TO GO TO APPEALING.
SO WE WOULD, WE HOPE TO SEE YOU RETURN.
WE'RE GLAD THAT YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING BOTH TO HELP THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND TO HELP THE NEED FOR, UM, HOUSING FOR MORE PEOPLE THAN OUR CITY.
RIGHT? FIRST, FIRST OF ALL, IF I CAN CLOSE WITH THIS, I AM SO SORRY THIS TOOK THIS MUCH TIME AND I I'M NOT TRYING TO BE COMPETITIVE.
I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN.
AND, AND UH, I'LL COME BACK, I'LL WORK WITH DR.
DUNN AND WE'LL GET THE RIGHT THINGS PUT ON PAPER SO THIS THING CAN BE DONE REAL QUICK.
AND YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING IS IF THERE'S NEW HOMES IN THAT AREA THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF, IF YOU'LL SHOW ME WHERE THEY ARE SO I CAN GO LOOK AT THEM.
I DON'T DONE, HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY CONTACT YOU DIRECTLY, BUT HE COULD PASS SOME INFORMATION FROM THAT'S FINE.
HOWEVER YOU GET INFORMATION TO ME, I WANNA BE ON THE TEAM.
THANK YOU SO MUCH AND I HOPE THAT TODAY WAS NOT TOO ONEROUS FOR YOU.
ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH AND WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN.
CHRISTINA MANKOWSKI ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.
DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER 1 7 0 1 DUMONT STREET, JUNIORS HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT CA 2 2 3 4 8 9 CMM.
THE REQUEST IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A SLOPING FOREFOOT BOARD ON BOARD FENCE IN FRONT YARD.
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL SLOPING FOREFOOT BOARD ON BOARD FENCE IN FRONT YARD BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
THE WORK, THE PROPOSED WORK IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA CRITERIA SECTION 3.6 A ONE AND SECTION 3.6 A TWO.
THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A 4.501 G SIX CI FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECURITY, EXCUSE ME, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.
TASK FORCE, OUR TASK FORCE READER JUST WALKED OUT.
ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS SHOULD READ
[02:15:01]
TWO.AND WE HAVE ONE REGISTERED SPEAKER, MICHELLE BALL, AND I SEE HER ONLINE.
UM, MA'AM, IF YOU, OH, SHOULD I WAIT TILL YOU DO YOUR, OKAY.
UM, IF YOU COULD START BY GIVING ME YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, MA'AM.
MY NAME IS MICHELLE BALL AND MY ADDRESS IS 7 0 1 DUMONT STREET.
AND YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL US THE TRUTH TODAY? ABSOLUTELY.
UH, YOU WILL NOW BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES THAT YOU CAN SPEAK ON YOUR PROJECT AND TELL US WHAT YOU WANNA DO AND WHY YOU WANNA DO IT.
AND WE'LL BE TIMED BY OUR OWN ELAINE HERE WHO WILL LET YOU KNOW IF YOUR TIME IS UP AND THAT WILL ASK YOU QUESTIONS.
UM, WE DID A HOUSE REMODEL LAST YEAR AND OUR EXISTING FENCE EX UH, HAD EXTENSIVE DAMAGE TO IT THAT COULD NOT JUST BE REPAIRED.
THE FOUR FOOT SECTION IN QUESTION WAS, UM, ACTUALLY OUR NEIGHBOR'S FENCE THAT WAS PUT IN BACK IN THE NINETIES REPLACED IN ABOUT 2006 TO 2008 WHEN HER MOTHER WAS LIVING THERE.
AND, UM, IT HAD BEEN ROTTING AND WAS DAMAGED AS WELL FROM JUST A COUPLE OF DECADES OF, UM, BEING IN EXISTENCE.
SO, UH, WE DECIDED TO GO AHEAD AND REPLACE THAT WHILE WE DID OUR OTHER FENCE AS WELL, UM, WITH OUR NEIGHBOR'S PERMISSION.
AND SO WE JUST REPLACED LIKE FOR LIKE, UM, WE REPLACED IT AS A FOUR FOOT FENCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHE HAD THERE ORIGINALLY.
I DO HAVE PICTURES OF IT FROM BEFORE, UM, THAT I CAN SHARE OR SEND IF NEEDED.
UM, I ALSO HAVE A VOICEMAIL THAT WAS ON A DIFFERENT PROPERTY WHERE SOMEONE HAD CALLED IN A FENCE TO CODE COMPLIANCE AND UM, SOMEONE NAMED NITA FROM CODE COMPLIANCE HAD CALLED THIS PERSON AND TOLD HER AND I QUOTE, UM, WE'VE DETERMINED THAT THERE AREN'T ANY SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR FENCES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE STRUCTURES.
SO IT IS CURRENTLY NOT CONSIDERED A VIOLATION.
SO WE JUST WERE WONDERING, UM, SINCE THIS FOUR FOOT FENCE HAD BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR AT LEAST 30 PLUS YEARS BEFORE THE DISTRICT WAS EVEN CREATED, UM, AND THE CITY CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER SAID THAT THERE WAS NO SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, SINCE IT'S NOT A STRUCTURE, UH, WE'D LIKE TO KEEP IT, BUT WE KNOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE ULTIMATELY THE ONES WHO DECIDE.
I SUSPECT THAT SOME, THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO CLARIFY SOME ISSUES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE FENCE THAT WAS ALREADY THERE AND WHETHER OR NOT ADVICE GIVEN ON A DIFFERENT ADDRESS COUNTS TO YOURS.
EACH, EACH, EACH ADDRESS IS THE, IS DIFFERENT.
SO WHAT QUESTIONS DO COMMISSIONERS HAVE FOR THIS APPLICANT? ANYBODY AT HOME
I GUESS I NEED CLARIFICATION, SO, OKAY, MS. BALD, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, WHAT YOU'VE STATED HERE IS YOUR NEIGHBOR STARTING WITH THE SLOPING FENCE, WAS THAT SLOPING FENCE PREEXISTING? YES.
SO YOUR NEIGHBOR HAD, IT'S NOT YOUR NEIGHBOR'S, IT WAS YOUR NEIGHBOR'S FENCE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES.
BUT UH, AND IT WAS WOODEN AND IT WAS SLOPING.
AND THEN THERE WAS A WOODEN FOUR FOOT FENCE PREEXISTING THAT YES.
YOU ELECTED TO REPLACE EVEN THOUGH YOUR CA WAS ROUTINELY GRANTED.
AND IT ONLY SPECIFIED THE PORTION THAT IS SKETCHED FOR US TO SEE HERE TODAY, NOT INCLUDING THE SLOPING PART AND NOT INCLUDING THE FOUR FOOT PART IN THE FRONT YARD.
YEAH, WE DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT INITIAL CA THAT WE SUBMITTED EARLIER THIS YEAR DIDN'T HAVE THAT PORTION.
UM, WE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IT SAID WE WERE REPLACING THE FENCE, LIKE FOR LIKE, AND WE DON'T HAVE TWO SEPARATE FENCES BETWEEN OUR PROPERTIES.
WE JUST HAVE THE ONE, SO IT'S LIKE A SHARED FENCE, BUT IT WOULD HAD BEEN PUT IN A LONG TIME AGO BY OUR NEIGHBOR.
MY UNDERSTANDING, AND JIM ANDERSON COULD PROBABLY SPEAK BETTER TO THIS THAN I, BECAUSE HE WAS MY PRESERVATION PLANNER STARTING IN 1986, HE'S NOW ON
[02:20:01]
THE COMMISSION AND HE'S HERE TODAY AND HE KNOWS A GREAT DEAL ABOUT JUNIORS.BUT MY UNDER, AND I LIVE IN WINNETKA HEIGHTS, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT A PREEXISTING FENCE OR A PREEXISTING HEDGE ROW, FOR EXAMPLE, IS NOT NECESSARILY GRANDFATHERED IN AND THUS ALLOWED TO REMAIN IT.
UM, EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO MAKE REPAIRS TO IT, YOU PROBABLY COULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
UM, SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE TYPE OF, UM, ALTERATION THAT, UM, IS NOT REALLY ALLOWED TO PERSIST OR BE REPLACED.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU CAN'T FORCE SOMEONE TO REMOVE IT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPLACE IT, IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
AND PERHAPS, UM, MS. SINGLETON HERE COULD CLARIFY THAT TOO, BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN AROUND THIS PROGRAM FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
SHE'S RETURNED TO IT, THANK GOODNESS, AFTER A LONG TIME AND WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE HER BACK.
BUT THIS KIND OF CLARITY IS VITAL WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING THESE KIND OF DECISIONS.
SO THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
TYPICALLY AS, UH, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN HAS STATED YOU CAN REPAIR, BUT TO COMPLETELY TEAR OUT AND REPLACE IS ANOTHER SITUATION BECAUSE AT THAT POINT IT BECOMES YOUR BUILDING BACK NEW.
NOW THE DESIGN STANDARDS FOR PEAKS, UM, DO SPEAK TO LOCATION OF THE FENCE.
THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED IN THE FRONT YARD GENUS, I MEAN, UM, THEY'RE NOT, UH, PERMITTED IN THE FRONT YARD.
UM, THERE ARE, UH, FOR THE COMMISSION, UH, IT SAYS EXCEPT FOR PROVIDED ON INTERIOR SIDE YARDS MUST BE LOCATED IN THE REAR 50%, WHICH YOU DID WITH THE ORIGINAL FENCE, UH, WITH THE REPLACEMENT FENCE.
UM, AND BEHIND THE OPEN FRONT PORCH OF THE ADJACENT HOUSE.
IF MORE SCREENING IS REQUIRED FOR ADDITIONAL SECURITY OR PRIVACY, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION MAY ALLOW A FENCE THAT IS LOCATED FIVE FEET BEHIND THE PORCH OF THE HOUSE REQUESTING THE FENCE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR FOR OUR APPLICANT? WELL, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.
IS THERE A PURPOSE FOR THAT FRONT PART OF THE FENCE OR IT WAS JUST THERE? IT WAS JUST THERE.
UM, OUR NEIGHBOR HAS, SHE'S THE THIRD GENERATION IN HER HOUSE AND UM, IT WAS PUT IN WHEN HER PARENTS LIVED THERE, SO IT'S JUST BEEN THERE FOREVER.
SO YOU'RE NOT ARGUING IT IS NEEDED FOR SECURITY AND IT WOULDN'T REALLY PROVIDE ANY SECURITY OR ANYTHING ANYWAY.
IT'S NO, AS AN OPEN-ENDED, WE, WE LIKE OUR NEIGHBOR
UM, AND IT DOES NOT LOOK FROM THESE OLDER PICTURES THAT THE NEW FENCE LOOKS PRECISELY LIKE THE OLD FENCE.
SO WERE TO CLAIM IT WAS TO BE GRANDFATHERED, IT WOULD HAVE TO HAVE BEEN REPAIRED BUT NOT CHANGED.
AND IT HAS BEEN CHANGED TO A SOMEWHAT MORE INTERESTING LOOKING FENCE, BUT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CHANGE.
SO NOW IF NO ONE HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I THINK WE ARE READY TO HAVE A MOTION.
MADAM CHAIR, I HAVE A MOTION THEN I'LL WANNA THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, THEN I WANNA SPEAK TO THE MOTION.
UM, AND THIS IS, UM, WE DON'T OFTEN DO THIS, BUT, UH, MY MOTION WITH RESPECT TO 7 0 1 DUMONT STREET IN THE JUNIOR HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT CA 2 2 3 DASH 4 8 9 CMM, IS THAT WE FOLLOW TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION AND TO DENY THE SLOPING FOREFOOT BOARD ON BOTH BOARD FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD.
UM, AND FOR THE REASON BEING THAT IT IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA AND WITH THE FINDING OF FACT THAT IT, UM, INTERRUPTS THE RHYTHM OF THE BLOCK FACE WITH, WHICH IS A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE BLOCK FACE.
SECOND, THAT WAS THAT COMMISSIONER ANDERSON WHO SECONDED.
ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANY FURTHER COMMENTARY BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE? I'D LIKE TO JUST MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT ON THE, ON THE MOTION.
IT'S, IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE AN OLD FENCE THAT'S BEEN THERE FOREVER AND EVERYONE KIND OF KNOWS IT'S, IT'S BEEN THERE A WHILE.
A NEW FENCE OF THIS SORT, PAUSES A BIT OF A
[02:25:01]
'CAUSE PEOPLE SEE THIS AND SEE A NEW FENCE AND GO, OH, I CAN GET ONE OF THIS ALSO.AND PEOPLE START TO THINK, OH, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DO.
AND THEY MAY DO WITHOUT BUILDING, WITHOUT A
SO PUTTING IN A NEW FENCE THAT FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT COMMISSIONER SHERMAN MENTIONED, IS A LITTLE BIT DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT CREATES A NEW LOOK AND IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT WITH THE CRITERIA WITH WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING LIKE AND ALSO CREATES THE SITUATION WHERE OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT NOT REALIZE THAT IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE.
WE WOULD NOT WANT THIS LITTLE FENCE TO BE A BAD EXAMPLE FOR THE OTHER NEIGHBORS.
AND, AND LET US ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS MOTION IS FOR A STRAIGHT DENIAL, WHICH MEANS WE DON'T, WE DON'T ANTICIPATE HEARING THIS AGAIN BE AND BEING ABLE TO CHANGE OUR MIND.
WE DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SMALL CHANGES THAT COULD BE MADE TO THIS FENCE TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE TO US.
I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR HELLO? CAN I ASK A QUESTION? WE ARE NOT REALLY SUPPOSED TO, BUT GO AHEAD.
UM, SO YOU SAID THE FENCE NEEDS TO BE FIVE FEET BACK FROM THE PORCH OPEN PORCH ADJACENT.
THAT IS A THING THAT WE COULD ALLOW YOU.
ALL YOU HAD PERMISSION TO DO WAS THE, THE SPECIFIC PART OF THE FENCE AND THE RETURN TOWARDS YOUR HOUSE THAT WAS LISTED IN YOUR ORIGINAL CA.
ANYTHING DONE BEYOND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE VOTING ON NOW, WHETHER WE THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE DENIED.
ALL RIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? PLEASE SAY NAY OR SOMETHING.
COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA, WHICH WAY DID YOU VOTE? I DID NOT SEE.
YOU'RE NOT ON I OH, SAY YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION.
ALRIGHT, SO DOES THAT MEAN WE HAVE UNANIMOUS VOTE ON THIS MOTION? ALL RIGHTY.
I'M, I'M, I'M SORRY MRS. BALL, BUT WE APPARENTLY, OR MS. BALL, SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO CALL YOU MRS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GO BY.
I DON'T USE MRS. SO WHY SHOULD YOU
I'M AFRAID THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SUPPORT YOUR FENCE AND WE HAVE DENIED APPROVAL OF IT.
WHAT THIS MEANS IS YOU CANNOT COME BACK TO US AND ASK ABOUT THIS FENCE FOR ANOTHER YEAR, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU WANTED TO KEEP IT, BUT SINCE IT'S BEEN DENIED, THE RULE IS REALLY THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT HAVE ANYMORE, YOU COULD APPEAL OUR DECISION AT THE C P C, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE PLAN COMMISSION.
THERE IS A FEE FOR THAT AND THEY WOULD BE NARROWLY RULING AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WE, WE MADE AN ERROR IN OUR JUDGMENT.
AND SO YOU, YOU ARE UP, IT'S UP TO YOU TO CONSIDER WHETHER YOU WANTED TO DO THAT OR NOT, OR YOU JUST WANT TO TAKE DOWN THE FENCE.
OKAY? AND I'M SORRY YOU DID NOT PREVAIL, BUT, UM, I THINK THERE WAS MISUNDERSTANDING BY YOU ON WHAT YOU WERE ALLOWED TO DO AND YOU DID IT IN GOOD FAITH, BUT IT WASN'T WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DO,
OKAY? BUT THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY,
ARE WE READY TO MOVE ON TO D THREE? OKAY.
RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON OR PRESENTING DISCUSSION ITEM D THREE.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 37 15 MEADOW STREET IN THE WHEATLEY PLACE, HISTORIC DISTRICT CASE NUMBER CD 2 23 DASH 23 R D.
THE REQUEST IS A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.
THE STANDARD IS IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING USING STANDARD IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
THE PROPOSED WORK IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBDIVISION H FOUR C.
D THREE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING USING STANDARD IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
AND WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE A SPEAKER? OKAY.
WE APPARENTLY DO NOT HAVE A SPEAKER FOR D THREE, SO NO ONE HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THIS ONE.
WE HAVE HEARD FROM STAFF SOME OF THE BACKSTORY THAT THE APPLICANT HAD ABOUT THE TRYING TO FIX IT UP, HIRING CONTRACTOR LOST HIS MONEY THAT HE PAID THE CONTRACTOR AND HAS NOT APPARENTLY HAD FUNDS TO PROCEED.
AND YES, WHEN I SPOKE TO HIM DURING THE BREAK,
[02:30:01]
HE SAID, UM, WELL HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MAKE IT TODAY, BUT HIS ONLY CONCERN OR QUESTION WAS IF THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THAT HE COULD GET FUNDING THROUGH A GRANT PROGRAM TO POSSIBLY HELP HIM TO FIX IT.SO THAT WAS HIS QUESTION WHEN I SPOKE WITH HIM DURING THE BREAK.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF OR A MOTION? GO AHEAD.
DUN COULD, COULD WE SEE AN IMAGE OF THAT HOUSE FROM 2016 WHEN THE APPLICANT ACQUIRED IT? OKAY.
THAT'S A PICTURE OF IT FROM, I THINK IT SAYS IT SAID JANUARY, 2016.
IS THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT SHOWS THE BACK OF THE HOUSE OR ANYTHING MORE OF THE HOUSE? NOT THE BACK FROM GOOGLE.
THE BEST I COULD GET FROM GOOGLE WAS THE FRONT, AH, THE LEFT SIDE.
SO THE HOUSE HAS HAD A PRETTY DRAMATIC COLLAPSE SINCE 2016, CORRECT.
AND I'M JUST, DID THE APPLICANT OFFER ANY EXPLANATION AS TO, I MEAN, RIGHT NOW I DON'T EVEN SEE A SAGGING IN THE ROOF.
DID HE OFFER ANY EXPLANATION AS TO HOW IT GOT IN THE CONDITION IT'S IN NOW? NO, HIS ONLY EXPLANATION WAS WHEN HE PURCHASED IT IN 2016, HE HIRED A GENERAL CONTRACTOR, PAID $40,000, ALLEGEDLY THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR, OF COURSE DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE HOME.
AND LIKE I SAID, THERE'S NO FOLLOW THROUGH FROM THAT POINT BECAUSE I DON'T, WELL, TRYING TO PUT THIS, I DON'T, I CAN'T PUT THIS IN A QUESTION, I JUST DON'T SEE HOW IT COULD GET TO THAT STATE UNLESS IT WERE LEFT OPEN AND UNSECURED AND HOUSES ARE LEFT OPEN AND UNSECURED ARE SOMETIMES SALVAGED OUT OF BY PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO MAKE A HUNDRED, 150 BUCKS.
UH, AND THEY WILL SALVAGE OUT OF THE ATTIC, THEY'LL TAKE THE BRACING AWAY, THEY'LL TAKE THE CEILING JOISTS AWAY, YOU'LL HAVE A, A SPREAD FAILURE.
AND THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE HAPPENED HERE.
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY, THEY TOOK THE CEILING JOISTS OUTTA THE HOUSE.
'CAUSE I'M, I'M NOT SEEING ENOUGH HOUSE MATERIAL IN THE IMAGES THAT YOU'RE SHOWING TO ACCOUNT FOR WHAT IS MISSING, YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN HOLDING THIS HOUSE TOGETHER? I THINK THAT MATERIAL'S BEEN REMOVED AND I, I HAVE TO SAY IT MAKES ME SOMEWHAT UN UNSYMPATHETIC TO THE OWNER BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY YOU GET TO THAT STATE IS IF YOU LEAVE IT OPEN AND UNSECURED.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE MOVE FORWARD CONSTRUCTIVELY FROM HERE.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S NOT MUCH MORE THAN A FACADE LEFT.
IT, IT APPEARS, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE YOU, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN MORE OF IT THAN I HAVE AND, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE EFFECTIVELY PROCEED ON A HOUSE LIKE THIS.
I MEAN, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT CASE PROBABLY ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO.
UM,
'CAUSE I, UNLESS THERE WAS A FIRE OR YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE CUT BY A TORNADO OR SOMETHING, I DON'T SEE A HOUSE.
HOW A HOUSE THAT LOOKED THAT STABLE IN 2016 COULD HAVE FALLEN APART AS COMPLETELY AS IT HAS IN SEVEN YEARS.
DID A TREE FALL ON IT?
I MEAN THAT WOULD BE A POSSIBILITY.
BUT AGAIN, EVEN IF THAT HAPPENED, THERE DOESN'T, I MEAN, WOULD YOU AGREE? I DON'T KNOW HOW, IF YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO INSPECT IT, BUT IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT THERE'S ENOUGH MATERIAL LEFT ON SITE TO RECONSTRUCT THAT HOUSE.
UH, TO BE FAIR, WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT MATERIAL MIGHT HAVE BEEN REMOVED.
PERHAPS WHEN WE REMOVED IT AFTER THE HOUSE COLLAPSED.
BUT YOUR REAL POINT IS THERE WAS WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY IT GOT FROM WHERE IT USED TO BE WHERE IT IS NOW.
I, WE, WE HAD A 11 0 11 0 5 EAST NINTH STREET COLLAPSED FOR THAT VERY REASON.
SOMEBODY SALVAGED A HUNDRED AND I KNOW WHAT THEY GOT FOR IT TOO.
'CAUSE ONE OF HIS FRIENDS CAME BY AND TOLD ME THEY GOT $150
[02:35:01]
FOR, FOR ALL THE SUPPORTING UH, STRUCTURAL MEMBERS IN THE CEILING AND ROOF AND PICK THE HOUSE DOWN.ALRIGHT, UH, I NEED THE NUMBER AGAIN.
BACK IN REGARDS TO DISCUSSION ITEM 3 3 7 1 5 MEADOW STREET, CD 2 23 0 2 3 RD.
I MOVE TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE PER STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.
ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND MR. SWAN.
NOW WE CAN COMMENT ON THE MOTION IN PLAY, WHICH I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE MOTIVATION FOR THE MOTION.
UM, AND IT WILL SURPRISE PEOPLE 'CAUSE I HAVE IN THE PAST 12 PEOPLE, YOUR HOUSE IS NOT FALLING OVER AGAINST SOME TWO BY FOURS AND SOME CEMENT BLOCKS AND YOU COULD HOLD IT UP.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE.
I DO THINK IT HOWEVER IT GOT TO THIS STAGE PRESENTS A DANGER NOW AND SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET HURT AND YOU CAN'T SALVAGE THIS HOUSE.
I AM ALSO SUSPICIOUS ABOUT HOW IT GOT THERE AND I'D HATE TO SET A PRECEDENT FOR LET YOUR HOUSE FALL APART AND, AND THEN YOU CAN BUILD A DIFFERENT ONE OR SOMETHING.
I'M NOT GONNA VOTE TO DENY THEIR MOTION TO DEMOLISH IT BECAUSE I THINK THERE COULD BE LIVES LOST IF WE DO THAT.
AND I DON'T WANT A HOUSE LOST, BUT I'LL ADMIT PEOPLE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN A HOUSE.
SO I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO DIE.
CAN WE HAVE STAFF WEIGH IN ON THAT? I MEAN, THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, UM, STATEMENT.
SO HAS THE CITY ATTORNEY ADVISED YOU, OR WHAT ARE THEIR THOUGHTS IN REGARDS TO THE SAFETY OF THE PROPERTY OR FELLOW RESIDENTS OR NEIGHBORS OR KIDS? I HAVE NOT BEEN ADVISED IN TERMS OF THEIR FEELINGS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED.
I MEAN, WAS ASKED TO TAKE IT BEFORE LANDMARK.
THEY HAVE WRITTEN SEVERAL, UH, CODE VIOLATIONS.
SO I GUESS THAT WOULD IMPLY THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY.
I I HAVE A CON IF I COULD, IS THAT YOU COMMISSIONER HENDERSON? GO AHEAD.
AS I SAID EARLIER, I AM NOT IMPRESSED THAT THIS CAME TO US AS AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION, UM, SINCE THERE WAS NO ENGINEER OR ARCHITECT'S REPORT, UH, NO ANALYSIS OF THE BILLING AT ALL.
I AM VERY CONCERNED THAT THIS IS AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION AND WE SHOULD NOT BE SEEING IT TODAY.
I FEEL VERY STRONGLY IF WE HAD THE, THE, THE REPORTS REQUIRE, IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO SUPPORT DEMOLITION OF THIS STRUCTURE AT THIS TIME, UNFORTUNATELY, AND I AGREE WITH THE CHAIR, THIS BUILDING'S IN BAD SHAPE, UH, THEIR CHILDREN.
IF THIS WAS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD WITH YOUR CHILDREN OR GRANDCHILDREN PLAYING, WOULD YOU BE FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS BEING IN THIS CONDITION? I THINK NOT.
THIS IS A KIND OF A POSTER CHILD FOR SOMETHING THAT WENT WRONG, MAY BE NEGLECTED, BUT NOW WE'RE IN A SITUATION THAT WE HAVE A BUILDING THAT COULD FALL DOWN AND HURT SOMEBODY.
AND IN, IN THEORY, WE, IN REALITY, WE, WE CAN'T APPROVE A
AND I THINK THAT'S VERY, VERY BAD.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO MAKE? COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, YOUR MIC IS ON.
DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT TO MAKE? NO MA'AM.
COMMISSIONER GAS, I I HAVE A QUESTION.
IS THAT YOU COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA? YES, I HAVE A QUESTION.
I'M LOOKING AT THIS PICTURE THAT, UH, FROM MAY, UH, 18 20 23, WHICH IS JUST SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.
UH, SO THE, THIS OTHER PICTURE THAT JUST CAME UP IS THAT THE BACK OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO LOOKS LIKE IT'S STILL OKAY.
YEAH, THE MAY, WELL, MAY 18TH, 2023 AND MAY 21ST, 2023.
THOSE ARE PICTURES OF THE REAR OF THE HOUSE.
AND THOUGH IT'S HARD TO SEE BY THE LACK OF SEEING IT, THE ROOF HAS ALREADY COLLAPSED IN THAT MAY 18TH ONE.
YES, IT'S, IT'S, THE REST OF THE ROOF IS NOT THERE.
WASN'T IT THE ONE THAT YOU SHOWED US FROM GOOGLE? IT SAID IT.
BUT THIS IS THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND THIS IS WHAT WAS TAKEN BY CODE ENFORCEMENT.
SO THE RIDGE, THE FRONT GABLE END OF THE ROOF THAT COLLAPSED IS STILL UP THERE.
SO WE SEE IT IN THIS FRONT PICTURE, BUT FROM THE SIDE AND FROM THE REAR, WE CAN SEE THAT IT, IT'S NOT ON THERE RIGHT AFTER THAT PART.
DUNN, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PULL UP A STREET VIEW FROM FEBRUARY, 2020?
[02:40:03]
FEBRUARY, 2020? WELL, I THINK ELAINE HAS A QUESTION, PERHAPS A PROCEDURAL QUESTION OR SOMETHING.WELL, N NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION, BUT UH, I NEED TO, I KNOW WE'VE GOT SEE THE, THIS VIEW HERE, BUT I NEED TO DO A CHECK OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE ONLINE.
I I I AM NOT SHOWING A, I'M NOT SEEING THEM WHEN, WHEN I CAN SEE THEM.
SO YOU WANNA REMIND COMMISSIONERS THEY NEED TO BE ON CAMERA WHEN THEY'RE AT HOME BECAUSE THAT IS STATE LAW THAT WE SEE YOU.
THIS IS THE IMAGE YOU REQUESTED RIGHT HERE.
YOU CAN GO, LEMME TURN MY MIC BACK ON.
CAN YOU GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE SO THAT IT SHOWS? OKAY.
NOW IF YOU CAN SCROLL BACK OR JUST MANEUVER BACK OVER.
YOU CAN SEE THE CONDITION OF THE ROOF IN 2020.
JUST DRAG IT, DRAG IT TO THE SIDE.
SO THERE'S, THAT'S THE CONDITION OF THE ROOF IN FEBRUARY, 2020.
TORN THE SHINGLES, SHINGLES OFF THE ROOF IN NOBODY SAW SHINGLES, RIGHT? PARDON? THEY DID.
THERE'S, CAN YOU STEAL SHINGLES AND STILL USE THEM OR THOSE WOULD BE, THOSE WOULD BE UNUSABLE.
BUT IT'S DOWN TO THE ROOFING LAB YOU'RE NOT ON.
SO NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU AT HOME.
SO WHAT WE ARE SEEING THAT THE TOP LAYER OF THE ROOF, THE SHINGLES HAVE BEEN REMOVED.
I'M JUST ASTONISHED THAT THEY'RE OF ANY USE ONCE THEY'VE BEEN BROKEN OFF.
AND YOU'RE SAYING MAYBE YOU COULD, NO, I THINK, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS SOMEBODY WHO'S TORN OFF THE ROOF FOR SOME REASON, BUT NOT FOR THE SHINGLES.
UH, IT TWO REASONS YOU WOULD DO THAT.
EITHER YOU'RE GETTING READY TO PUT A NEW ROOF ON IT OR YOU'RE GETTING READY NOT TO.
WE ARE THINKING THAT THIS MAY BE FURTHER EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT NOT EVERYTHING WAS DONE TO SAVE THIS BUILDING WHILE IT COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED.
YES, THAT'S, THAT'S THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE.
ALRIGHT, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE VOTE ON THE MOTION THAT'S ON BEFORE US? IT, IT STAYS OF CONFUSING, DIFFICULT QUESTIONS CLEARLY.
I'M GONNA CALL FOR VOTE ON THE MOTION, WHICH I REMIND YOU IS TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE FOLLOWING THE REASONING OF THE STAFF.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY AYE.
THE PEOPLE ARE NOT ON SCREEN TO WHERE I CAN SEE THEM ATALL.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? ME A
WELL I THINK MR. ANDERSON, WE LOST, BUT I THINK WADE GIBSON MIGHT'VE BEEN OKAY.
MR. GIBSON WAS WITH US, BUT WE STILL LOST THE MOTION HAS CARRIED, WHICH MEANS IT IS DENIED.
YES, ELAINE? THERE WERE AND THEN, UM, THERE LIKE
I DON'T SEE, I DON'T EVEN SEE MR. T'S NAME ANYMORE.
PERHAPS HE HAS BEEN KICKED OFF OF THE CONNECTION.
IN WHICH CASE WE GO WITH THOSE WHO, WHO VOTED ON THIS OUR, OUR VOTING COMMISSIONERS FOR THIS TIME.
SO WHO OPPOSED? I I THINK HE NEEDS TO CONFIRM IT.
COMMISSIONER GIBSON? YEAH, WE WILL.
UM, WILL YOU GO AHEAD AND DO THE ROLL CALL JUST TO CHECK IT'S THE BEST WAY.
DISTRICT ONE COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.
DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY OPPOSED AND IT MIGHT BE CLEAR TO SAY OPPOSED OR SUPPORT 'CAUSE YOU KNOW THEY SOUND SO SIMILAR.
UH, DISTRICT THREE, COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN SUPPORT DISTRICT FOUR.
COMMISSIONER SWAN SUPPORT DISTRICT FIVE.
COMMISSIONER OFFIT, DISTRICT SIX.
COMMISSIONER HOSA SUPPORT DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER.
COMMISSIONER DU SUPPORT DISTRICT 11.
OPPOSED? DISTRICT 12 COMMISSIONER ROTTENBERG IS,
[02:45:01]
HAS LEFT A MEETING.DISTRICT 14 COMMISSIONER, GUEST SUPPORT DISTRICT 15.
UH, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON OPPOSED? COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS SUPPORT? SO WE HAVE TWO IN, IN, UH, OPPOSITION.
SO WE'RE THREE IN OPPOSITION, BUT THE MOTION HAS CARRIED SO IT IS DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
STAFF WILL COMMUNICATE TO THE APPLICANT THE NECESSARY INFORMATION ABOUT THAT AND SUGGEST THEY COME BACK, I GUESS AND TALK TO US WOULD BE GOOD SO THAT WE COULD FURTHER UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS HOUSE ALONG THE WAY.
ALRIGHT, SO NOW WE CAN MOVE ON TO D FOUR.
RAM DUN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 28 10 METRO POLICY AVENUE IN THE WEEKLY DISTRICT.
THE CASE NUMBER IS PA TWO THREE DASH 4 86 R D.
ONE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE HORIZONTAL ING REQUEST TWO.
A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, FORGIVE ME.
OKAY, REQUEST, I'LL START WITH ONE AGAIN.
REQUEST ONE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING EXTERIOR ALUMINUM SIDING WITH FIBER CEMENT HORIZONTAL LAP SIDING.
IN OTHER WORDS, HARDY SIDING REQUEST NUMBER TWO, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE ROOFING SHINGLES WORK COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
REQUEST NUMBER THREE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE ENTRY DOORS.
IT SHOULD BE FOR TOTAL REQUEST NUMBER FOUR, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO RESIZE AND REPLACE EXISTING WINDOWS WITH VINYL WINDOWS.
TOTAL WORK COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
REQUEST NUMBER FIVE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PREPARE AND PAINT EXTERIOR BODY SHERWIN WILLIAMS, CHELSEA GRAY SW 28 50 TRIM SHERWIN WILLIAMS EXTRA WHITE SW 7 0 0 6.
REQUEST NUMBER SIX, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL EXTERIOR BURGLAR BARS ON WINDOWS LOWER SASHES.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS FOR REQUEST NUMBER ONE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING EXTERIOR ALUMINUM SIDING WITH FIBER CEMENT HORIZONTAL LAP SIDING, I E HARDY SIDING BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 7 6 20 23 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION THAT HORIZONTAL LAP LAP SIDING BE ALL WOOD, NOT FIBER.
CEMENT IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO MEET THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODES.
SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT AND NEIGHBORHOOD STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION NUMBER TWO, THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE ROOFING SHINGLES WORK COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 7 6 23.
THE PROPOSED WORK MEETS THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD NUMBER THREE STAFF RECOMMENDATION NUMBER THREE THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE ENTRY DOORS FOR TOTAL BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 7 6 23 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION THAT THE FRONT DOORS BE CRAFTSMAN STYLE WITH A MINIMUM OF THREE TOP LIGHTS.
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO MEET THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE
[02:50:01]
SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD NUMBER FOUR, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO RESIZE AND REPLACE EXISTING WINDOWS WITH VINYL WINDOWS 13 TOTAL WORK COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.THE PROPOSED WORK DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION NUMBER FIVE THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PREPARE AND PAINT EXTERIOR BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 7 6 23 BODY SHERMAN WILLIAMS, CHELSEA GRAY S W 28 50 TRIM SHERMAN WILLIAMS EXTRA WHITE S W 7 0 0 6.
THE PROPOSED WORK MEETS THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE OF THE INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION NUMBER SIX THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL EXTERIOR BURGLAR BARS ON WINDOWS LOWER SASHES BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
THE PROPOSED WORK DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARIAT OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD.
THANK YOU
YOU WE CONTINUE? YES, GO AHEAD.
SO THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING EXTERIOR SIDING WITH FIBER CEMENT SIDING, I E HARDY BOARD SIDING BEING DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE EXTERIOR SIGHTING SHOULD BE WOOD.
NUMBER TWO, THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE ROOFING SHINGLES WORK COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.
NUMBER THREE, THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE ENTRY DOORS.
THREE TOTAL BE APPROVED WITH A CONDITION THAT NEW DOORS BE CRAFTSMAN STYLE NUMBER FOUR, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO RE RESIZE AND REPLACE EXISTING WINDOWS WITH VINYL WINDOWS.
TOTAL WORK COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
WINDOW SHOULD BE WOOD NUMBER FIVE, THE REQUEST FOR CER, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PREPARE, PREPARE AND PAINT EXTERIOR BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED BODY SHERWIN WILLIAMS, CHELSEA GRAY S W 28 50 TRIM, SHERWIN WILLIAMS EXTRA WHITE S W 7 0 0 6 NUMBER SIX THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL EXTERIOR BURGLAR BARS ON WINDOWS LOWER SASHES BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
EXTERIOR BURGLAR BARS ARE CONTRARY TO THE WHEATLEY PLACE ORDINANCE.
AND WE DO HAVE TWO SPEAKERS SIGNED UP FOR THIS ONE.
THE FIRST OF WHOM IS TI PATEL WHO I SEE.
I ASSUME THAT THE, THAT YOU'RE BOTH THERE.
ALRIGHT, SO WHAT I NEED FOR BOTH OF YOU TO DO, AND I KNOW IT SOUNDS SILLY, IS BOTH GIVE ME YOUR FULL NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS EVEN THOUGH THE ADDRESS WILL BE THE SAME PROBABLY.
THE ADDRESS IS 2 8 1 0 METROPOLITAN AVENUE DALLAS, 7 5 2 1 5.
MY NAME IS TI PATEL, UH, ADDRESS IS 2 8 1 0 METROPOLITAN AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 1 5.
ALRIGHT, AND YOU BOTH SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL US THE TRUTH TODAY? YES MA'AM.
NOW YOU HAVE TECHNICALLY THREE MINUTES EACH, BUT LET'S YOU KNOW, WE'LL START WITH THREE MINUTES WHERE YOU CAN TELL US ABOUT YOUR, YOUR REQUEST AND, AND CLARIFY ANYTHING AND THEN WE WILL ASK QUESTIONS UNLESS YOU NEED THE OTHER THREE MINUTES, ALRIGHT? SURE.
UH, SO WE, THIS IS ALL NEW TO US.
WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE REQUIREMENTS, BUT AS SOON AS WE WERE NOTIFIED BY THE INSPECTOR, WE STOPPED THE WORK, UH, FOR THE SIDING.
WE, UH, WE WILL FOLLOW THE RECOMMENDATION OF FOOD.
SO WHAT WILL BE THE NEXT STEP FOR US? DO WE HAVE TO, UH, SUBMIT A NEW CERTIFICATE APPLICATION FOR THE, WITH THE NEW MATERIAL OR HOW DOES THAT WORK? UM, WELL WHAT WE WOULD ASK IS ARE YOU WANTING TO STICK WITH YOUR PLAN TO
[02:55:01]
USE THE HARDY BOARD OR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO AND DO THE WOOD SIDING INSTEAD? UH, WE ALREADY PURCHASED THE MATERIAL, BUT IF IT'S REQUIRED BY THE STATE, UH, BY THE DISTRICT, DISTRICT REQUIREMENT, WE'LL COMPLY AND WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO BUY NEW MATERIAL TO PUT THE WOOD SIDING INSTEAD.I, I THINK THAT WOULD BE WHAT WOULD PLEASE THE COMMISSION THE MOST.
AND SO WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT THEY MAKE, WHAT WE, WHAT MOTION WE PASS, WHICH WOULD EITHER SPECIFY WHICH WOOD TO PUT ON OR INSTRUCT STAFF TO WORK WITH YOU TO CHOOSE ONE OF THE ONES THAT'S ALREADY APPROVED.
YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE ABOUT OTHER ISSUES? UH, YES.
SO, UH, BY THE WINDOWS, UH, I GUESS IT'S THE SAME, SAME SITUATION BECAUSE WE ALREADY INSTALLED THE WINDOWS, UH, CONSIDERING THE HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET, THE 2 8 1 9, THEY HAVE THE SIMILAR VINYL WINDOWS AND THAT WAS RECENTLY, UH, RE RENEWED OR REFURBISHED I BELIEVE THIS YEAR.
AND SO, AND APPARENTLY WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT HISTORIC REQUIREMENTS, BUT WE WOULD REQUEST IF THAT HOUSE HAS THIS, UH, VINYL WINDOWS, IF YOU CAN PLEASE ALLOW US TO KEEP THE WINDOW THAT WE, THAT IS ALREADY INSTALLED.
IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO ON AND ADDRESS THE OTHER ISSUES AND THEN WE'LL TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHICHEVER ONE'S CONCERNED US WHEN YOU'RE DONE.
ALSO, THE LAST ITEM, THE BURGLAR BARS.
UM, THERE ARE BURGLAR BARS ARE ALREADY THERE IN THE EXISTING HOUSE AND THERE'S THE REASON WE WERE, UH, PROPOSING TO PUT IT BACK SO THAT WAY WE CAN KEEP THE SAME LOOK AS IT WAS, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE REQUIRED.
UH, WE CAN REMOVE IT IS IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR EXPLANATIONS YOU WISH TO PRESENT? OR WE CAN ASK YOU QUESTIONS AND YOU CAN UH, NO MA'AM.
COMMISSIONERS QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR OUR APPLICANTS? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANTS.
UH, ON THE PHOTOGRAPHS IT'S VERY OBVIOUS THAT THERE IS WOOD SIDING.
I THINK IT'S PROBABLY CALLED NOVELTY SIDING ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE ON THE BACK AND MAYBE THE ON THE SIDE THERE.
DO YOU, WHEN YOU TOOK OFF ANY OF THE EXISTING INVITATION SIDING, WAS THERE MORE OF THAT WOOD SIDING ON THE HOUSE? UH, SO THE HOUSE AS WE PURCHASED IT HAD THE ALUMINUM SIDING ALL AROUND, BUT, UH, THE, UH, CONTRACTOR, THEY'RE PREPARING THE SURFACE TO PUT THE NEW SIDING SO THEY REMOVE THE ALUMINUM SIDING AND REMOVE IT UNDERNEATH.
WAS THAT WOOD SIDING THAT YOU SEE? SO WAS THERE WOOD SIDING ON MOST OF THE HOPS THAT WAS THERE? I BELIEVE SO, YEAH, I BELIEVE SO.
BUT THAT WAS, I DON'T KNOW IT, THE PREVIOUS OWNER, THEY WERE IN HOUSE FOR MANY YEARS, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YEARS.
BUT THE GENTLEMAN OCCUPYING THE HOUSE, HE PASSED AWAY AND THEN WHEN WE ACQUIRED THE HOUSE, IT WAS, UH, COVERED THROUGHOUT WITH THE ALUMINUM SIDING.
UH, WE DIDN'T SEE ANY WOOD SIDING UNTIL WE REMOVE THE ALUMINUM SIDING TO PUT THE NEW SIDING ON TOP.
WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS, UH, REMOVING ALL OF THE IMITATION SIDING AND ALSO THE HARDY BOARD THAT'S ON THERE.
AND SEE HOW MUCH OF THE ORIGINAL WOOD THAT, THAT THAT OLD WOOD IS VERY, UM, VERY HARD.
IT'S, IT'S, IT, IT'S VERY GOOD WOOD.
IF THEY CAN KEEP YOU PAINT IT.
SO I SEE IF THAT WOULD BE THE BEST USE TO GO BACK AND TAKE THAT OLD WOOD, WHICH IS SEASONED WITH, YOU KNOW, 80 YEARS OF SUNSHINE IN TEXAS AND KEEP THAT OLD WOOD, IT'LL BE WORTH KEEPING.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ADDRESSING PERHAPS WINDOWS OR OTHER CONCERNS? COMMISSIONER OSA? I HAVE A QUESTION.
COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA, UH, MR. PATEL, WHEN YOU REMOVE THE WOOD WINDOWS, UH, TO REPLACE 'EM WITH VINYL, DO YOU HAVE THE WOOD WINDOWS SOMEWHERE? UH, NO MA'AM.
WE WERE TOTALLY NOT AWARE OF THE WHOLE HISTORIC DISTRICT SITUATION.
SO WHEN THEY REMOVED THE WINDOWS THEY PUT IN THE DUMPSTER AND IT WAS GONE LONG BEFORE WE EVEN REALIZED THIS SITUATION.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I THINK THAT SOMEONE SHOULD ADDRESS MR. PATEL'S, UM, STATEMENT THAT A HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET HAS THE VINYL WINDOWS AND UM, WHETHER THAT WANTS TO BE A MEMBER OF STAFF, PERHAPS BECAUSE WE, WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER THAT THE FACT THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS DONE SOMETHING
[03:00:01]
DOESN'T MEAN ANYBODY ELSE CAN DO IT.BUT IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN IT BETTER.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY DID WITHOUT PERMISSION.
WE ARE UNAWARE AND I GUESS WE WILL HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT.
SO IF, IF, IF YOU UNDERSTAND MR. PATEL, UM, THEY, THEY DID PUT IN, THEY DID REPLACE PROBABLY ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS WITH THOSE VINYL ONES, BUT THEY DIDN'T GET OUR PERMISSION TO DO IT AND NOW YOU'VE KIND OF TURNED THEM IN.
YOU DIDN'T NEED TO PUT ANYBODY INTO TROUBLE, BUT WE, I KNOW YOU DIDN'T LEAVE YOUR HOUSE AND THE CROSS THE HOUSE, SO WE JUST, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE WE WERE VIOLATING THE I WAS JUST KIDDING.
I DID NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAD DONE ANYTHING WRONG.
AND WHO KNOWS WHEN THEY PUT THOSE, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT EVEN IF WE HAD GIVEN THEM PERMISSION, THAT WOULDN'T MEAN WE HAD TO GIVE ANYBODY ELSE PERMISSION.
WE DON'T HAVE PRECEDENCE, WE JUDGE EACH CASE ON ITS OWN AND UNFORTUNATELY VINYL WINDOWS DO TEND TO BE CONSIDERED AS JUST NOT LOOKING AS GOOD, UM, AS THE WOODEN ONES AND ALL THE WOODEN ONES ARE GONE.
ALRIGHT, I HAVE NO SOLUTION TO OFFER YOU.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR ANY OTHER IDEAS THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO RUN BY OUR APPLICANTS ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH? MAY I ASK STAFF A QUESTION? GO AHEAD.
BECAUSE I'VE, I'VE SLEPT SINCE THEN.
THE NOTION OF WOOD VERSUS, UM, HARDY BOARD STAFF HAS SUGGESTED IT THE HARDY BOARD BE APPROVED AND WHY IS THAT? NO, NO, NO.
I I SAID APPROVE WITH CONDITION.
THE CONDITION BEING THAT THE SIDING NEEDS TO BE WOOD.
IT DID SOUND LIKE THAT AT FIRST.
'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO, I WAS TRYING TO BE NICE INTERRUPT, SAY.
DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS COMMISSIONER SHERMAN? NOT YET.
I'M STILL, BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO EITHER, AT WHICH POINT WE HAVE TO ASK FOR A MOTION.
DID I HEAR SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO, WELL, WHILE YOU'RE THINKING, LET ME REITERATE THAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED THAT THEY WOULD AGREE WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE SIGHTING SHOULD BE WOOD.
AND THEY HAVE HEARD MR. ANDERSON'S RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY KEEP THE SIDING THAT WAS ALREADY THERE BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY BETTER WOOD THAN YOU CAN BUY TODAY.
AND THEY ALSO SAID IF WE REALLY DON'T WANT 'EM TO HAVE THE BIRTHDAY BARS, THEY COULD PROBABLY DO WITHOUT THOSE.
SO OUR ISSUE, I SUPPOSE, UM, IS THE OTHER THREE REQUESTS AND UH, PROBABLY THE MOST CONTENTIOUS ONE IS THE FINAL WINDOWS.
I'LL TAKE A STAB AT IT DOWN A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.
UM, HAS, HAVE YOU GUYS APPROACHED, UH, WHO, WHOMEVER YOU GUYS HAVE, WOULD THERE BE POSSIBILITIES TO UH, GET UH, TRADE IN, TAKE OUT THESE VINYL WINDOWS AND GET MONEY OFF FOR ANOTHER ORDER OF WINDOWS? HAVE YOU APPROACHED THAT THOUGHT? UH, WE DID NOT, BUT UH, WE CAN INQUIRE TO SEE IF THEY CAN MAKE PROVISION.
WE WEREN'T SURE WHAT WILL BE THE OUTCOME OF THE MEETING AND WHAT WILL BE OUR NEXT STEPS, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY INQUIRE.
ALRIGHT, DO WE HAVE A MOTION YET MR. SHERMAN? I HAVE A FINAL QUESTION.
OH, COMMISSIONER, HE GO AHEAD.
YES, UH, UH, MR. AND MRS. PATEL, ARE Y'ALL OWNER OCCUPANTS OF THE PROPERTY OR WILL Y'ALL BE OWNER OCCUPANTS? NO, WE ARE NOT.
I'LL DO, UH, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN ALREADY HAD HER LIGHT ON AND OH, SHE'S BEEN WORKING UP FOR COURAGE.
UM, IN THE MATTER OF DISCUSSION, ITEM 4 28 10 METROPOLITAN AVENUE WHEATLEY PLACE, HISTORIC DISTRICT CA 2 2 3 DASH 4 86 RD.
I MOVE THAT WE FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE WITH CONDITION ITEM ONE AND TO APPROVE ITEM TWO, TO APPROVE ITEM THREE
[03:05:01]
TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE.ITEM FOUR, TO APPROVE ITEM FIVE AND TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
AND ALL OF THOSE ARE BASED ON THE REASONS GIVEN BY STAFF IN THEIR RECOMMENDATION WERE THE REASONS STATED IN THE CASE REPORT THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA AND CITY CODES CITED IN THE RELEVANT SECTIONS OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, GUIDELINES INCLUDED.
ALRIGHT, OUR MOTION IS ON THE FLOOR.
IS THERE FURTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE WE VOTE? IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, I'LL CALL FOR THE VOTE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION? AYE.
ANY OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? NONE ARE OPPOSED.
UH, MR. AND MS. PATEL, UM, YOU, YOU DID RECEIVE SOME DENIALS WITHOUT PREJUDICE, WHICH MEANS WE WELCOME YOU TO COME BACK AND FURTHER DISCUSS IF YOU WANTED TO AND WE COULD PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, MAKE SOME MORE PROGRESS.
AND OF COURSE, STAFF CAN HELP YOU AT ANY TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT YOUR OPTIONS MIGHT BE AS YOU PREPARE TO COME BACK AND SEE US, YOU HAVE THE ALTERNATIVE BECAUSE THERE WERE SOME DENIALS TO GO TO C P C, THE PLAN COMMISSION AND THEY CHARGE A FEE TO DO THIS WHERE YOU WOULD APPEAL WHAT WE SAID TODAY AND THEY WOULD LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE REALLY WRONG.
UM, WE'D LIKE TO THINK THAT WE ARE, UM, THAT YOU ARE UNDERSTANDING SOME OF OUR VIEWPOINTS AND ARE READY TO EXPLORE MAKING YOUR HOUSE MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE ORDINANCE.
SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU COME BACK AND ASK AGAIN AND WE WOULD LOVE IT IF STAFF COULD HELP YOU, UM, DO WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO DO WITH YOUR HOUSE, WHICH IS MAKE IT LOOK GOOD IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU HAVE A GOOD AFTERNOON, EVENING, WHATEVER.
MARCUS WATSON PRESENTING DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER 5 1 18 NORTH CLINTON AVENUE IN WINNETKA HEIGHTS, HISTORIC DISTRICT ITEM NUMBER, UH, ITEM C D 2 23 DASH ZERO 11 MW.
THE REQUEST IS A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION AND REMOVAL TO DEMOLISH THE SHED STRUCTURE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY STANDARD IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.
STAFF RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH THE SHED STRUCTURE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH MATERIALS DATED 6 9 23.
THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION MEETS THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 H FOUR C TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH THE SHED STRUCTURE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
COMMENTS NUMBER ONE, NEED MORE EVIDENCE.
NUMBER TWO, CEILING TOO LOW STRUCTURE LEANING ON NEIGHBOR'S FENCE NUMBER THREE, APPLY FOR DEMOLITION BASED ON SAFETY HAZARD NUMBER FOUR, DOCUMENT ROT DAMAGE HEIGHT, THE CEILING, AND NUMBER FIVE WOULD NEED MORE EVIDENCE TO DISAPPROVE HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
ALL RIGHT, UH, LET US KNOW THAT COMMISSIONER SHERMAN HAS RECUSED HERSELF FROM THIS ONE.
UM, WE DO HAVE ONE REGISTERED SPEAKER, CORY CLARK.
I SEE, UH, THAT CORY CLARK HAS JOINED US, BUT I DO NOT SEE A FACE YET.
IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE THE CAMERA ON TO MEET STATE LAW THAT WE MAKE SURE WE KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING TO.
IS YOUR CAMERA WORKING? IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WORKING.
LET ME, UH, TRY A SOLUTION HERE.
UNFORTUNATELY IT'S STILL NOT WORKING.
I'LL JUST GO ALONG WITH WHAT MARK HAS PRESENTED TO YOU GUYS THIS MORNING.
I DO APOLOGIZE FOR THE VIDEO CONFLICT.
THANK YOU FOR BEING SO UNDERSTANDING.
IT'S LIKE I SAID, IT'S A STATE LAW, NOT OUR RULE.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER IT.
WELL, I GUESS THAT MEANS WE CANNOT
DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS THAT THE STAFF ALREADY MAKE A MOTION BY? ANY CHANCE? I HAVE A MOTION.
COMMISSIONERS WAN IN THE MATTER OF DIS UH, IN DISCUSSION.
UH, ONE 18 NORTH CLINTON AVENUE IN
UH, MW I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE FOLLOWING STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER.
SP UM, IF THERE'S NO FURTHER COMMENT I CAN CALL FOR A VOTE ON THIS MOTION.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED THIS MOTION? IT APPEARS IT IS CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
[03:10:01]
SO YOU HAVE HAD YOUR REQUEST REPRO APPROVED MR. CLARK, I CAN TALK TO YOU.SO, UM, I I HOPE YOU ARE PLEASED WITH THE OUTCOME OF THIS.
THAT LEAVES US ONLY D SIX AND MS. DIANE COMING BACK? YES, MR. SHERMAN HAS REJOINED THE MEETING.
RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.
UH, THE SIGHTED LOCATION IS 1100 COMMERCE STREET.
IT'S THE EARL CABELL FEDERAL BUILDING.
WE ARE BEING ASKED BY THE, UH, GENERAL SERVICE ADMINISTRATION BASICALLY TO REVIEW OUR, BASICALLY THEY REALLY WANTED TO NOTIFY US OF THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FOR 1100 RS STREET, THE EARL COBELL FEDERAL BUILDING AT THE BEHEST OF THE GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION.
THE REQUEST IS TO REVIEW THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FORM FOR 1100 COMMERCE STREET, THE EARL CABBEL FEDERAL BUILDING AT THE BEHEST OF THE GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION.
G S A, THE OWNER IS OF COURSE THE US GOVERNMENT.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I DID TOUR THE BUILDING AND SAW THE IMPORTANT AREAS OF IT AND, AND THE REMAINING ARCHITECTURE.
AND I MET WITH THE G S A REPRESENTATIVE VICTORIA KLAU.
MANY OF US KNOW HER AND SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA TO SUPPORT THIS.
IT IS LATE IN THE DAY FOR ALL OF US, DR.
WE ARE DOING OUR BEST TO HANG ON TO.
AS I MENTIONED THE BRIEFING, THE ARCHITECT WAS, GEORGE DAHL WAS SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECT IN DALLAS.
HE DID MUCH OF THE WORK AT FAIR PARK AND ALSO THE, UM, THE LIBRARY, UM, IN THE, UM, WOOD DISTRICT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S A MAJOR DEAL.
WANTED TO MAKE THE COMMENTS SO YOU ARE IN SUPPORT OF OUR SUPPORTING THIS FOR NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION.
ALRIGHT THEN IF THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMENTS, I GUESS I CALL FOR A VOTE.
ALL OF THOSE, WELL, WE DON'T, I DUNNO IF WE VOTE EXACTLY ON IT, WE DO HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION AND THEN THEY VOTE ON IT.
WE'RE JUST, UM, I MOVE THAT WE OFFICIALLY SUPPORT THE REQUEST OF THE G S A TO GO TO, UM, TO TRY TO MAKE THIS A NATIONAL LANDMARK ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER.
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR SECOND
COMMISSIONER HENO IS SECONDED.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
YOU'LL PLEASE LET THEM KNOW THAT WE ARE PLEASED WITH WHAT THEY HAVE PROPOSED.
I DO NOT BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY MORE BUSINESS.
I WILL REMIND THE COMMISSIONERS, ESPECIALLY ANY NEW ONES, THAT IN SEPTEMBER, THE FIRST MONDAY IS A HOLIDAY.
SO WE USUALLY HAVE OUR MEETING ON TUESDAY, IS THAT CORRECT? IS OUR CALENDAR FOR THE UPCOMING MEETING? THE NEXT MEETING? THE SEPTEMBER MEETING IS SEPTEMBER 5TH.
AND ALSO IF YOU HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO ELAINE ABOUT THE N A P C TRAINING DATES, PLEASE DO.
AND ELAINE HAS TO ASK US TO, I'M GUESSING HERE.
UH, PLEASE, UH, SUBMIT YOUR RECUSAL FORMS. I SAW YOURS.
AND, UM, I ALSO, I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE, THE COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE SO GENEROUS AND SO HELPFUL IN HELPING ME, UH, CLEAN MY ROOM UP AND BRING, BRING THE, THE, THE REST OF EVERYTHING UPSTAIRS.
I AM SO VERY MUCH APPRECIATIVE TO ALL OF YOU.
WELL, WE'RE APPARENTLY HARD WORKERS.
I SEEM TO HAVE SLIPPED OUT ON THAT, BUT, OKAY.
WHAT