Oct 31, 2023 Special Board of Adjustments

UM, I LIVE IN SOUTHEAST DALLAS AND IN PARTICULAR THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF PARKDALE, AND I'VE SERVED ON THE BOARD SINCE 2022.

I DID A BRIEF STINT PRIOR TO THAT.

UM, AND I SERVE ON PANEL C.

I'M MICHAEL KOWSKI.

I, UH, LIVE IN OLD EAST DALLAS IN THE GENIUS HEIGHTS NEIGHBORHOOD.

I AM ON PANEL B AND I'VE SERVED SINCE 2021.

MY NAME IS ANDREW FINNEY.

I, UM, HAVE SERVED FOR A YEAR AND A HALF.

UM, I LIVE IN SOUTHWEST DALLAS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF BLUE BONNET HEIGHTS IN OAK CLIFF.

UM, AND I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.

ANDREW, WHERE IS THE INTER WHAT'S THE BEST INTERSECTION AT BLUE BONNET HEIGHTS? UM, WESTMORELAND IN ILLINOIS, WESTMORELAND WESTMORELAND IN ILLINOIS.

I LIVE IN NORTH OAK CLIFF IN KESSLER PARK, WHICH IS ABOUT SOUTHWEST FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS.

AND I'VE BEEN ON THE PANEL FOR TWO YEARS.

I'VE SERVED SINCE, UH, 2017.

I LIVE IN NORTH DALLAS, UH, NEAR PRESTON HOLLOW VILLAGE,

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UH, IN PAGEWOOD.

HI, JARED SLADE.

UH, I WAS APPOINTED AS AN ALTERNATE IN THE END OF 2017.

UM, I LIVE IN DALLAS, UH, A NEIGHBORHOOD CALLED GREENWAY PARKS.

I AM SARAH LAMB.

UM, I AM ON PANEL B, SO ON WEDNESDAYS.

UM, I WAS APPOINTED INITIALLY IN 2019.

UM, SERVED FROM 2019 TO 2022, TOOK A BRIEF BREAK AND THEN WAS LUCKY TO GET REAPPOINTED TO A DIFFERENT PANEL, UM, IN 2023 AND THEN REAPPOINTED AGAIN.

SO OFF AND ON SINCE 2019.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

I'M RACHEL HAYDEN.

I LIVED IN EAST DALLAS IN THE LITTLE FOREST HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I WAS APPOINTED TO PANEL A JUST ABOUT ONE YEAR.

EXACTLY, ACTUALLY THIS MONTH, I THINK IT'S ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY.

SO, GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY.

ROGER SING.

I LIVE IN FAR SOUTHWEST DALLAS, UM, MOUNTAIN CREEK AREA.

UM, CAME ON THE PANEL IN 2017 AS A SEAT, WAS VACATED AND HAVE BEEN STUCK WITH ROBERT EVER SINCE .

BUT, UM, ABSOLUTE PLEASURE TO HAVE BEEN SERVING THE COMMUNITY THAT WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE AND CALL HOME SINCE 2017.

SO MY NAME IS MICHAEL OVITZ.

I AM BRAND NEW, A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE.

THIS IS MY FIRST MEETING, SO I'M BRAND NEW TO ALL THIS.

I'M ON PANEL A, I LIVE IN FAR FAR, FAR NORTH DALLAS IN DENTON COUNTY, PART OF DALLAS.

UM, THE ONE OF THE BENT TREE SUBDIVISIONS, UH, WAY OUT THERE.

UM, I'M GLAD TO BE HERE.

HI, MY NAME IS DR.

IO GLOVER.

I LIVE IN WEST DALLAS IN THE TRINITY GROVES AREA IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CALLED GILBERT EMERY.

I'M AN ALTERNATE AND I'M ON PANEL B.

UM, THIS IS MY SECOND TERM.

MY NAME IS NICK BROOKS.

I'M AN ALTERNATE MEMBER.

UM, I WAS APPOINTED IN 2017.

I LIVE JUST WEST OF, UH, DALLAS, IN NORTH OAKCLIFF IN NEIGHBORHOOD CALLED KID SPRINGS.

SO I'M GONNA GO AROUND THE ROOM FOR THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF THAT SUPPORT THE BOARD.

UH, JUST GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ROLE IF YOU WOULD.

AND WE'RE GONNA START WITH JASON POOLE, PLEASE.

JASON POOLE.

I'M THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT TEAM.

AND AN EDITORIAL COMMENT.

JASON IS DIRECTOR ESPINOZA'S LEAD EXECUTIVE FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

HE'S THE PERSON THAT MYSELF AND ROBERT AND SHERRY AND I DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS FOR MOVING, KEEPING THE TRAIN ON THE TRACKS AND MOVING FORWARD.

SO WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE JASON'S APPOINTMENT OF RECENT.

UH, MY NAME IS MATTHEW SAPP.

I'M THE BOARD COUNSEL, UH, REP REPRESENTING THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

I'M DIANA BARQUE AND I'M THE PROJECT COORDINATOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.

I'M DR.

KAMIKA MILLER HODGKINS SENIOR PLANNER FOR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, AND ABSOLUTELY ONE OF OUR MOST PIVOTAL STAFF SUPPORT PERSON IS OUR BOARD SECRETARY.

MY NAME IS MARY WILLIAMS AND I'M THE BOARD SECRETARY FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND THEN NORA, YOU CAN, DO YOU HAVE A MICROPHONE OVER THERE? OKAY.

UH, YOU, YOU CAN GRAB HERS A QUICK SECOND.

WE WANNA MAKE SURE YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE.

OR YOU CAN SHOUT, MY NAME IS NORA, THE, UH, SPECIALIST.

THANK YOU NORA.

ALRIGHT, THAT'S GREAT.

UM, THE NEXT PERSON, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY, I BELIEVE THERE WERE A FEW, UH, PANELISTS THAT WERE ONLINE THAT WE'RE APPEARING VIRTUALLY.

OH, THANK YOU MR. SAP AS WELL.

MR. SAP.

I'VE GOT MR. NUTTALL, I THINK, AND MR. CANNON.

SO, MR. NUTTALL, WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? YES.

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.

UM, MY NAME IS DEREK NUTTALL.

I SERVE ON PANEL B, UH, I LIVE IN BUCKNER TERRACE OR EAST DALLAS.

MR. CANNON.

OKAY, GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.

UH, I'M JOE CANNON, UH, CALLING IN FROM, WELL LIVE IN CENTRAL DALLAS.

MORE SPECIFICALLY, I AM IN

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THE HEART OF DOWNTOWN.

BEEN SERVING ON PANEL B FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, AND, UM, LOOKING FORWARD TO ANOTHER TWO.

VERY GOOD CATCH MR. BOARD ATTORNEY.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ATTORNEYS AROUND OCCASIONALLY TO KEEP US OUT OF TROUBLE.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

UM, VERY GOOD.

ALRIGHT, THE NEXT PERSON I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE, UH, IS OUR CITY ATTORNEY.

UH, WE'RE VERY HONORED TO HAVE TAMMY PALINO WITH US TODAY.

SHE WAS RECENTLY APPOINTED THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.

AND, UH, I ASKED YOU TO COME TODAY JUST TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND TELL US VERY BRIEFLY ABOUT THE ROLE THE CITY ATTORNEY VIS-A-VIS BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, THE COUNCIL, BUT SPECIFICALLY OUR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.

SO, MS. PELINO, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US TODAY, MR. CHAIRMAN.

AND REPRESENT CITY OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES IN LITIGATION REGARDING MATTERS THAT ARISE FROM THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES OR IN THE COURSE AND SCOPE OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT.

AS IMPORTANTLY, MR. PALOMINO WAS THE, UH, SECOND, UH, BOARD ATTORNEY THAT I EVER SAT WITH.

SO THIS TOO IS WHAT YOU HAVE, UH, IN YOUR FUTURE, ALL OF YOU.

, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR INVITING ME HERE TODAY.

IT'S, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE AND I, I ENJOYED SERVING, UM, AS THE ATTORNEY FOR THE BOARD.

WE HAD SOME REALLY INTERESTING, UM, AMORTIZATION CASES WHEN I WAS THERE.

UM, LET ME JUST TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUR, UM, OFFICE.

THE CITY OF DALLAS CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS A FULL SERVICE LAW FIRM.

I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT WE HAVE THREE DIVISIONS.

OUR LITIGATION DIVISION, OUR INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION, WHICH IS ABOUT 18 MONTHS OLD.

AND THEN WE HAVE GENERAL COUNSEL DIVISION.

YOU ALL WILL ALWAYS LIKELY SEE, UM, OUR GENERAL COUNSEL DIVISION ATTORNEYS BECAUSE OF THE ROLE THEY PLAY, UM, IN OUR OFFICE.

SO I WANNA INTRODUCE YOU TODAY, THE CHIEF OF OUR, UM, GENERAL COUNSEL DIVISION, UH, BERT VANDENBERG, BERT SUPERVISES, I BELIEVE SIX SECTIONS IN, UM, IN OUR, UM, GENERAL COUNSEL DIVISION.

AND WE'RE DIVIDED BY THE AREA OF PRACTICE.

AND SO WE HAVE, I BELIEVE, ABOUT 52 BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS IN THE CITY.

AND SO WE HAVE A LOT OF ATTORNEYS THAT ARE OUT THERE REPRESENTING DIFFERENT BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS IN THEIR EITHER QUASI-JUDICIAL ADVISORY CAPACITIES.

UM, ALSO CASEY BURGESS, HE IS OUR DEPUTY CHIEF OF OUR GENERAL COUNSEL DIVISION.

HE ALSO SERVES AS A SECTION CHIEF OF OUR MUNICIPAL REGULATORY, UH, SECTION.

THEY DO EV WE AFFECTIONATELY SAY THEY DO EVERYTHING BUT CONTRACTS.

SO THEY'RE THE FULL SERVICE.

AND THEN I'M HAPPY TO HAVE OUR INSPECTOR GENERAL HERE TODAY WHO, UM, BART BEAVERS ARGUMENT BART IS, UM, WAS HIRED TO, TO ACTUALLY, UM, TO STAND UP THE IG DIVISION.

AND SO THEY DO ALL OF THE, UM, FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE INVESTIGATIONS.

WE HAVE, UM, OUR CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER UNDER, UM, UH, THE IG DIVISION.

AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE, UM, SOMEBODY WHO WRITES ADVISORY OPINIONS FOR EMPLOYEES, UM, ELECTED OFFICIALS AND, UM, AND BOARD AND AND COMMISSION MEMBERS AS WELL, ADVISORY OPINIONS ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN DO, TAKE AN ACTION ON SOMETHING.

AND SO, UM, LET ME HAVE BARON STAND UP.

HE IS OUR CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER.

HE'S IN CHARGE OF TRAINING, UH, CITY EMPLOYEES, CITY BOARDS AND CITY OFFICIALS.

AND THEN RACHEL CRAIG, SHE IS, UM, AN ATTORNEY IN THE IG DIVISION WHO DRAFTS AT ALL OF THE ADVISORY OPINIONS FOR THE CITY.

AND THEN OF COURSE, MATT SAPP, UM, HE'S THE ATTORNEY FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND THEN I HAVE TODAY, DANIEL MOORE IS HERE.

HE'S YOUR FORMER, UH, ATTORNEY EMERITUS TO THE BOARD .

AND THAT'S WHAT I REFER TO HIM AS.

AND I, I PULLED MS. PALAMINO ASIDE BEFORE THE MEETING, AND I'LL SAY THIS NOW VERY PUBLICLY, AND I SAID THIS, WHEN OUR RULES OR PROCEDURE WENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL IN APRIL OF THIS YEAR, HOW MUCH WE SO APPRECIATE DANIEL MOORE'S SERVICE AS OUR BOARD ATTORNEY.

HE WAS THERE MANY, MANY TIMES TO THIS DAY.

MS. PALOMINO THAT I HAVE A LITTLE, UH, VOICE IN MY EAR FROM THAT WAS FROM WHAT DANIEL WOULD SAY, MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS AND THAT, THE OTHER.

SO HE'S INVALUABLE AND, AND THAT'S WHY I DUBBED HIM OUR BOARD ATTORNEY EMERITUS.

SO ANYWAY, THANK YOU.

SORRY FOR THAT PRIVILEGE.

THAT'S OKAY.

SO TODAY, UM, BARON IS GOING TO, UM, GIVE YOU SOME, UH, HE'S GONNA GO OVER 12 A, WHICH IS OUR CODE OF ETHICS.

AND THEN OF COURSE MATTHEW'S GONNA GO OVER THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UM, VARIANCES, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND THE LIKE.

AND THEN DANIEL'S GONNA TALK ABOUT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

AND THEN FINALLY, BRADY FLANNERY, WHO'S NOT, OH, THERE YOU ARE.

HE, UM, IS GONNA TALK ABOUT THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT.

SO LEMME TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

UM, THE CITY ATTORNEY IS A, AN APPOINTED OFFICIAL.

THIS MICROPHONE, I NEED TO PULL A LITTLE BIT CLOSER.

UM, OUR OFFICE REPRESENTS THE CITY IN ALL LITIGATION AGAINST THE CITY.

WE ALSO ADVISE

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WE ALSO FILE AFFIRMATIVE LITIGATION AGAINST, UM, BAD ACTORS.

UM, WE ALSO PROSECUTE ALL OF THE MUNICIPAL COURT CASES.

UM, ALL CLASS C MISDEMEANORS.

WE APPROVE AS TO FORM AND DRAFT ALL OF THE CITY ORDINANCES.

AND WE REPRESENT THE CITY BEFORE ALL LEGISLATIVE BODIES, BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL.

WE ARE ALSO, UM, THE ADVISORS, LEGAL ADVISORS TO CITY COUNCIL, THE CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEES, THE CITY MANAGER, OTHER OFFICIALS, BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND CITY OFFICERS REGARDING ANY LEGAL QUESTION INVOLVING OFFICIAL DUTIES OR ANY LEGAL MATTERS RELATING TO CITY AFFAIRS.

SO WE DO IT ALL.

WE ADVISE THE CITY COUNCIL, THE CITY MANAGER AND THE CITY DEPARTMENTS ON NEW AND PROPOSED STATE AND FEDERAL LEGISLATION AS WELL.

AND WE PERFORM ALL OTHER DUTIES AS THE COUNCIL MAY DIRECT OR REQUEST.

SO THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT WE DO IN THE CITY.

UM, WE DO TAKE OUR ROLE AS, UM, ADVISORS TO BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS VERY SERIOUSLY.

UM, ESPECIALLY, UM, WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT YOU ARE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, YOU CAN BE SUED AND YOU ALSO HAVE, UM, I THINK YOUR, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DO AFFECT PEOPLE.

AND SO THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO US.

AND SO, UM, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME HERE TODAY.

AND THAT'S BASICALLY THE ROLE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

QUESTIONS FOR MS. PALINO? MR. AGNES, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I SOMEHOW KNEW THAT, YES.

DO YOU SUE MR. ESPINOZA OR DEFEND MR. ESPINOZA? WE DEFEND MR. ESPINOZA.

SO THERE IS A DIFFERENT PART OF THE CITY'S LEGAL WHO, WHO WOULD MAKE THAT DECISION, RIGHT? WE'RE DIVIDED INTO DIVISION.

SO OUR LITIGATION DIVISION HANDLES ALL OF THE LITIGATION THAT, UM, WHERE WE REPRESENT CITY OFFICIALS, UM, OR WE FILE LAWSUITS AGAINST.

SO, SO LET'S CLARIFY THAT FOR EVERYONE'S EDIFICATION.

I THINK WHAT YOU MEANT IS THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.

YES, I DO.

I DO NOT MEAN PERSONALLY.

YEAH, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.

SO WHEN THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ACTS IN HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTY TO DETERMINE, UH, THE, UH, UH, CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY OR ISSUING A PERMIT, UM, THAT'S WHEN THAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY LITIGATED.

THAT'S WHAT I THINK YOU'RE REFERRING TO.

YES, IT IS.

YES, MS. LAMB.

UM, WOULD YOU CLARIFY IN WHICH SCENARIOS YOU WOULD HAVE OUTSIDE REPRESENTATION, UM, THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY REPRESENT THIS BOARD WHERE IT'S NOT JUST THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WHEN THERE'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, WE WILL HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO REPRESENT THE BOARD.

DO YOU WANT ME TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY TO THAT? I THINK, I THINK SO.

FOR THOSE THAT, UM, HAVE NOT, UM, EXPERIENCED THAT PROCESS, SO THE, UM, THE STATE LAW THAT, UM, THAT FORMULATED THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT GIVES PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO, UM, SUE AGGRIEVED DECISIONS FROM THE BOARD.

IT ALSO GIVES A MUNICIPALITY THAT OPTION AS WELL.

WE DO THAT VERY, VERY RARELY, BUT IT'S IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE WE'RE, WE BELIEVE THE CITY BELIEVES THEY'RE AGGRIEVED BY THE BOARD'S DECISION, WE WOULD HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL FOR THIS BOARD TO BE REPRESENTED, AND THEN WE WOULD REPRESENT, UM, THE, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.

IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

IT IS.

I THINK TWO TIMES IN 21 YEARS I'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE YOU AND YOUR EXECUTIVE TEAM BEING HERE THIS MORNING.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE PRESENTATIONS THAT ARE FORTHCOMING.

NEXT UP, UH, AS AN INTRODUCTION, WE HAVE THE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, ANDREW ESPINOZA, AND ANDREW HAS A FEW OF HIS EXECUTIVES WITH HIM.

UM, AND SO IF YOU WOULD TAKE CENTER CHAIR, MR. BUILDING OFFICIAL.

GOOD MORNING, SIR.

WELCOME.

WE'RE VERY GLAD THAT YOU'RE WITH US.

IF YOU WOULD INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOUR TEAM AND TELL US A SNIPPET ABOUT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND MAYBE ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT MAY COME UP.

WHO IS OUR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ENGINEER, WHO OVERSEES OUR ZONING TEAM, OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT TEAM, OUR ARBORIST AND OTHER, UH, DIVISIONS WITHIN OUR DEPARTMENT TODAY.

UH, FIRST OF ALL, GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.

IT'S AN HONOR AND A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

I AM ANDREW ESPINOZA, THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DIRECTOR AND BUILDING OFFICIAL, UH, THAT SERVES YOU AND THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY.

UH, WITH ME TODAY, I HAVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR VERNON YOUNG, UH, WHO OVERSEES OUR CUSTOMER ADVOCATE GROUP AND OUR MINOR PLAN REVIEW TEAM, AS WELL AS OUR CALL CENTER.

UM, IN ADDITION, WE HAVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR MINA ISKANDER,

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WE ALSO WANTED TO INVITE, UH, DONALD DIXON, WHO'S OUR DEPUTY BILLING OFFICIAL, BUT WAS NOT ABLE TO MAKE IT.

HE OVERSEES OUR INSPECTION AND OUR PLAN REVIEW GROUP.

UM, A LITTLE SNIPPET ABOUT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, ANYTHING, EVERYTHING DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY OF DALLAS COMES THROUGH OUR OFFICE.

UH, WE RECEIVE THOUSANDS OF PERMITS EVERY YEAR.

WE PERFORM THOUSANDS OF BUILDING MECHANICAL, ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING, TREE SIDEWALK ENGINEERING INSPECTIONS AND PLAN REVIEWS.

UH, WE'RE ONE OF THE BUSIEST DEPARTMENTS IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, AND SO WE'RE PROUD TO SERVE THE RESIDENTS AND OF COURSE, WE SUPPORT THIS BOARD AS WELL.

UH, AS YOU KNOW, UM, THE BOARD CAME OVER TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, LAST OCTOBER.

UH, AND SINCE THEN WE'VE BEEN MAKING PROGRESSIVE IMPROVEMENTS.

AND JASON POOLE, OUR ADMINISTRATOR, WILL SHARE SOME OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, LATER ON TODAY.

UH, WHEN THE BOARD CAME OVER, WE HAD THREE TEAM MEMBERS SERVING THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNING BODY, UH, WITH SOME CHANGES AND SOME RESTRUCTURING.

WE NOW HAVE SEVEN TEAM MEMBERS THAT SUPPORT THIS GROUP ALONG WITH JASON'S LEADERSHIP.

AND SO IT'S A, AGAIN, AN HONOR TO BE HERE.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONTINUED PARTNERSHIP.

UH, AND WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE RESIDENTS OF DALLAS AND OUR DEPARTMENT.

EXCELLENT QUESTION, MR. SINGTON.

BEST, MR. ESPINO QUESTIONS FOR THE BUILDING OFFICIAL? I HAVE ONE OR TWO, UH, A WHILE BACK, THE CITY PURCHASED A BUILDING ON ALONG 35 STEMMONS, AND THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES MOVING FROM MACH, WHICH IS ON JEFFERSON, UP TO THAT FACILITY.

IS THAT STILL IN THE MIX? IS THAT ON HOLD? IS THAT WHERE, WHERE IS THAT? SO THANK YOU FOR THE, THE QUESTION CHAIRMAN NEWMAN.

UH, WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IS THAT THE FINAL COMPLETION WILL BE IN NOVEMBER, SO JUST NEXT MONTH.

UH, I BELIEVE THERE ARE SOME PENDING IT RELATED CONFIGURATIONS, UH, BUT WE HOPE TO BE IN THERE VERY SOON, UH, BEFORE THE YEAR IS UP.

OKAY, GREAT.

SO IS, DOES THAT MEAN THAT PEOPLE FILE REQUESTING PERMITS, THAT THAT WHOLE OPERATION SHIFTS TO THAT LOCATION? WHAT RESIDUAL OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WILL STAY IN JEFFERSON OR IS IT YOUR INTENTION FOR THAT INTAKE PROCESS TO MOVE THERE? THANK YOU FOR THE INQUIRY.

SO OUR CITY MANAGER'S VISION IS TO HAVE A TRUE ONE-STOP SHOP FOR DEVELOPMENT.

UH, SO CUSTOMERS CAN COME IN, HAVE A PLEASANT EXPERIENCE, BE ABLE TO BUILD SYNERGY FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT, OPPOSED TO RUNNING FROM BUILDING TO BUILDING AND, AND, AND SECTION TO SECTION.

AND SO ALL OF OUR OPERATIONS, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WISE WILL BE RELOCATED TO 7,800 NORTH STEMMONS.

AND IT'S OUR HOPE IN THE FUTURE TO ALSO BRING OUR DISTRICT OFFICES, UH, INTO THAT, UH, UMBRELLA SO THAT WE CAN PROVIDE THAT RED CARPET EXPERIENCE.

THANK YOU, MR. OFFICIAL, UH, QUESTION YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, UM, ABOUT THE STAFFING THAT YOU HAD WHEN WE CAME OVER, UM, TO BUILDING SERVICES.

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS HAVE ALL OF THE STAFFING NEEDS, UM, UH, TO SUPPORT THE THREE PANELS, UH, THAT WE HAVE BEEN MET.

IS THERE A RAMP UP TO THAT, UM, SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION? AND WHERE ARE YOU IN THAT PROCESS? THANK YOU.

UH, THANK YOU FOR THAT, FOR THAT QUESTION.

SO ALL OF THE POSITIONS, EXCEPT FOR ONE, IS CURRENTLY VACANT.

I BELIEVE WE HAVE A, A SENIOR PLANNER OR PLANS EXAMINER THAT'S VACANT.

WE'RE WORKING TO ACTIVELY FILL THAT.

WE BELIEVE WE HAVE THE POSITIONS WE NEED IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THIS GROUP, BUT IF THERE IS A SPECIFIC NEED OR A REQUEST, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO EXPLORE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS TO BRING ON A BOARD SECRETARY SPECIFICALLY WITHIN THAT PAY CLASSIFICATION SO THAT WE COULD BE EQUITABLE, ATTRACT SOMEONE WITH THOSE TALENTS AND SKILLS TO BE ABLE TO MORE EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY RUN THIS PROCESS.

UH, HIRING ON JASON POOLE AS THE ADMINISTRATOR OVER THE BOARD HAS CREATED TREMENDOUS MOMENTUM.

UH, AND AS YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE THE APPROPRIATE AND THE RIGHT LEADERS IN PLACE, A LOT MORE CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED.

AND SO, AGAIN, WE LOOK FORWARD TO ANY RECOMMENDATIONS YOU HAVE.

IF YOU SEE SOME GAPS, WE'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO CONSIDER THOSE, UH, SUGGESTIONS.

AND JUST ONE, JUST ONE FOLLOW UP, IF I MIGHT.

OH, GO AHEAD.

UM, YOU, YOU SPOKE TO E EQU, UM, UH, AN EQUITABLE, UM, MINDSET.

UM, DOES IT ALSO INCLUDE STAFFING OUT WITH, UH, A DI A DIVERSE GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS TO SUPPORT THE DIVERSE, UM, UH, COMMUNITY THAT WE SERVE, UM, IN DALLAS? THANK YOU FOR THAT

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QUESTION.

UH, YES.

AS LEADERS, WE HAVE TO BE INCLUSIVE, UH, AND BE MINDFUL OF HOW WE RECRUIT AND HOW WE, UH, STAFF OUR TEAM TO BE ABLE TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING THAT EQUITABLE CUSTOMER SERVICE, BEING SURE THAT THE WORKLOADS ARE ALSO EQUITABLE, UH, AND THAT WE'RE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO ALLOW OUR STAFF TO ENJOY TIME WITH THEIR FAMILIES VACATION.

AND SO ALL OF THAT GOES BACK TO THE STAFFING NEEDS, BEING ABLE TO COMPENSATE THEM APPROPRIATELY AND THEN MOST IMPORTANTLY, CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY WANT TO STAY AND SERVE.

THANK YOU, MR. ESPINO.

YES, SIR.

THANK YOU, MR. SASHING, MS. LAMB.

UM, YES.

UM, WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT THE TRANSITION FROM THE BOARD, UM, TO YOUR DEPARTMENT AND THE IMPACT ON, ON THE STAFF AND THE BOARD.

UM, WHAT FEEDBACK, IF ANY OF YOU GOTTEN FROM THE PUBLIC WOULD THIS TRANSITION TO THIS NEW DEPARTMENT AND THE PROCESS IN WHICH THE PUBLIC FACING EXPERIENCES WITH, WITH THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT? THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION.

SO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ACTUALLY PUSHES OUT A CUSTOMER SERVICE SURVEY ON EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF CORRESPONDENCE THAT GOES OUT OF OUR DEPARTMENT.

UH, IT'S ALSO A SURVEY THAT CAN BE FOUND ON OUR WEBSITE.

AND THE INITIAL RESPONSE THAT I'VE GOTTEN FROM CUSTOMERS RELATED TO OUR BOARD TEAM MEMBERS HAS BEEN VERY POSITIVE.

I DON'T THINK I'VE RECEIVED ONE NEGATIVE COMMENT.

HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY CONSTRUCTIVE THOUGHTS FROM APPLICANTS AND CUSTOMERS WITH THIS TRANSITION? I, I, I'M SURE WE HAVE.

UH, I, I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE THAT, SO I'LL HAVE TO DEFER TO OUR ADMINISTRATOR AND, UH, MY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR.

BUT I HAVE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH CHAIR NEWMAN, UH, AND RECEIVED, YOU KNOW, SUGGESTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS RELATED TO MAKING SURE WE IMPROVE THE ACCURACY OF THE CASES, OF THE TRANSPARENCY, UH, THE TURNAROUND TIME, AND ALSO THAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

SO THOSE ARE THE THE MAIN THINGS WE'RE FOCUSING ON.

BUT AS, AS ALWAYS, WE, WE WELCOME FEEDBACK.

UM, SINCE OUR WORK IS PREDICATED ON THE INFORMATION THAT IS GIVEN TO US BY CITY STAFF, WHAT STRUCTURES DO YOU HAVE IN PLACE TO HOLD CITY STAFF TO THE HIGHEST STANDARD SO THAT OUR WORK CAN BE EASIER? THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT QUESTION.

SO, SO ONE OF THE THINGS I DISCOVERED WHEN I, UH, TOOK THIS ROLE ON WAS THAT AS A DEPARTMENT, WE WERE FALLING A LITTLE BIT SHORT WHEN IT CAME TO QUALITY CONTROL.

AND SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY WORKING ON RIGHT NOW TO IMPLEMENT, UH, IS NOT ONLY TO GET OUR DEPARTMENT ACCREDITED, UH, ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS, BUT STAND UP QUALITY CONTROL PROCESS PROCESSES FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL DIVISION AND WORKING GROUP, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THIS PARTICULAR GROUP AS WELL.

THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. ESPINOZA AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOU AND YOUR TEAM BEING HERE.

AND I WANNA POP PUBLICLY AGAIN, REINFORCE HOW MUCH WE'RE VERY PLEASED WITH JASON, MR. POOLE, MR. POOLE, JOINING, UH, PART OF YOUR TEAM AND HAVING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AS PART OF HIS, UH, MANAGEMENT RESPONSIBILITY.

THANK YOU, UH, SAM FOR COMING.

UH, WE ARE MOVING ALONG BRISKLY THIS MORNING.

SO THIS IS A GOOD OMEN FOR OR GOOD SIGNAL FOR THE DAY.

UM, UH, ARE WE HAVE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, MR. SAPP SCHEDULED FOR 10:00 AM SO I'M ASSUMING I CAN'T GO TO THAT UNTIL 10.

IS THAT A CORRECT? WOULD THAT BE A CORRECT ASSUMPTION? THAT WOULD BE A A WISE ASSUMPTION, YES, SIR.

WISE ASSUMPTION.

ALRIGHT, SO I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND, AND BRIEFLY PRESENT THE CHAIRMAN'S REPORT, UH, UPDATE PANEL ASSIGNMENTS AND RULES OF PROCEDURE.

AND, UH, AND THEN WE'LL FIGURE OUT, DEPENDING ON WHERE THAT GOES, WE MAY START THE PRESENTATION, UH, UH, ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST BEFORE 10 OR AT 10, UH, BUT WE'LL GO FROM THERE.

MR. ESPINOZA HAS BEEN VERY OPEN IN WORKING WITH THE BOARD ON IMPLEMENTING THE TRANSITION FROM PLANNING AND URBAN DESIGN TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.

PAGE FOUR OF YOUR PACKAGE SHOWS A ONE PAGE SUMMARY FROM YOUR CHAIRMAN REGARDING, UM, UH, THE PERIOD OF OCTOBER ONE OF 22 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30TH OF 23.

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, I'M GONNA ENCOURAGE PRESENTERS NOT TO READ THEIR PRESENTATION, SO I'M NOT GONNA READ IT OTHER THAN SAYING FOCUS, ADVOCACY, EMPOWERMENT, TRANSITION AND PROGRESS.

AND, UM, BEING POSITIVE.

I'M GONNA SAY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ON THAT WHOLE PAGE IS THE LAST SECTION ON PROGRESS.

THESE ARE SPECIFIC COMPONENTS THAT MR. POOL AND I HAVE AGREED TO WORK TO WORK ON TOGETHER.

UH, OFFICERS OF THE BOARD AS WELL AS THE BOARD AS WE GO INTO 20, UH, THE END OF 23 AND 24.

UM, I, I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN,

[00:35:01]

AND SO I I APPRECIATE THAT.

UM, CHAIRMAN.

YES, PLEASE.

UM, I BELIEVE THERE'S SEVERAL BOARD MEMBERS THAT DO NOT HAVE THE CHAIRMAN'S UPDATE.

IT'S IN YOUR, SHOULD BE IN YOUR ONLINE VERSION.

OH, I'M SAYING YES.

WE'RE SEEING HARD COPIES OF YOUR YES.

NO, NO.

THE ONLY HARD COPIES YOU GOT WERE THE AGENDA AND THEN THE, THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES REPORT AT THE END, IT'S, IT'D BEING YOUR ONLINE PACKAGE.

IS THERE A WAY WE CAN HAVE A SPLIT SCREEN HERE WHERE WE CAN HAVE THE PRESENTATION PULLED UP FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS TO I WOULD AGREE.

SO JASON, CAN WE BRING UP THAT SO THAT, 'CAUSE I'D LIKE THAT FOR THE ONLINE AS WE GO THROUGH THE PRESENTATIONS.

IT'S PAGE FOUR I, I REQUEST, I APPRECIATE YOUR REQUEST MS. LAMB.

SO GIVE US ONE SECOND.

THIS WILL BE A QUICK TEST FOR MR. POOL AND HIS TECHNOLOGICAL PRO LIFTS.

YEAH, YEAH.

EXPERTISE, CAPACITY, STRENGTH.

AND CAN YOU MAKE THAT FULL SCREEN? IS THAT POSSIBLE? NOT THAT WE DON'T WANNA SEE PEOPLE'S FACES, BUT THAT'S RIGHT.

IS THAT WHAT IT IS? I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S CALLED.

HE JUST DOES CLICKS.

SO I'LL, I'LL FOLLOW HIS CLICKS.

THERE WE GO.

OH NO.

OH, THAT'S AS LARGE AS I CAN MAKE IT.

CAN YOU MAKE IT FULL SCREEN? IT MAY HAVE TO HAPPEN ON THERE.

THERE WE GO.

THAT'S BETTER.

AND THEN, UM, I DUNNO IF PEOPLE CAN READ THAT OR NOT.

THIS IS THE AGE OF TECHNOLOGY.

VERY LITTLE IS LEFT TO PAPER.

IS THERE PRE ME? I'D STILL PREFER PAPER FOR EVERYTHING, BUT IS THERE PRESENTATION MODE? OH, MS. LAMB, NOW, NOW WE KNOW WHO'S GOT THE TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEMS. OH, I DON'T, I'M A MILLENNIAL.

THAT IS NOT GOOD AT TECHNOLOGY AT ALL.

DON'T WE HAVE, YEAH, ONE SECOND.

I, I APOLOGIZE I WASN'T PREPARED TO PRESENT THIS.

GIMME JUST A SECOND.

WE ONLY HAVE 186 PAGES OF OUR AGENDA TODAY, GUYS, IF YOU GUYS ARE USING THE APP, YOU CAN GO TO VIEW AND FULL SCREEN.

UH, IF YOU'RE LOGGED IN ON THE WEBSITE, I DON'T KNOW, WELL NOTICE HOW WE'RE BURNING THROUGH OUR TIME FOR OUR 10 O'CLOCK PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

SORRY.

LET'S SEE WHAT HE DOES.

THIS IS PRESENTATION MODE.

I CAN TRY AND ZOOM IN.

AND THEN SCROLL DOWN.

THERE WE GO.

ALRIGHT, THAT'S, THAT'S MUCH BETTER.

SO, UM, ARE YOU GONNA RUN THE, THE DEAL ON THAT? OKAY.

ALRIGHT, SO I'M GONNA, AGAIN, I'M NOT GONNA READ EVERYTHING.

UH, IT WAS SENT TO YOU IN, IN YOUR PACKAGE, UH, LAST TUESDAY.

WHAT I WANNA EMPHASIZE IS THE, THE LAST, LAST BULLET, IF YOU COULD ROLL TO THAT.

THAT, UM, THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND MYSELF AND THE OFFICERS HAVE FOCUSED ON WHAT THINGS THAT WE'RE GONNA WORK ON TOGETHER GOING FORWARD.

PROGRESS.

AND THAT IS, THESE ARE KEY COMPONENTS THAT AS A BYPRODUCT OF THIS LAST YEAR OF TRANSITION,

[00:40:01]

AND IT KIND OF GOES TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS OF MR. SINGTON AND MS. LAMBS ABOUT CAPACITY AND, UM, BOTH THE STAFF'S ROLE AS WELL AS THE BACK AND FORTH TO BETTER.

AND MR. GLOVER, DR.

GLOVER'S COMMENT ABOUT EMPOWERING INFORMATION TO THE BOARD.

SO, UM, I'M OPTIMISTIC, I'M POSITIVE.

I WILL TELL YOU THAT, UH, AGAIN, THIS TIME PERIOD IS SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, ONE OF LAST YEAR THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30TH OF THIS YEAR.

IT'S BEEN A LITTLE, LITTLE BIT OF A ROLLERCOASTER.

WE'VE HAD THREE BOARD ADMINISTRATORS DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.

UH, AND THAT'S A LITTLE, THAT'S A LITTLE TOUGH TO, UH, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH AN ON-RAMP THREE TIMES.

UM, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE POSITIVE AND WE'RE HOPEFUL.

UH, ALRIGHT, WE CAN CLICK TO THE NEXT ONE IF YOU WOULD PLEASE.

I'M GONNA KEEP GOING TO KEEP US ON SCHEDULE.

UM, THIS IS THE PANEL ASSIGNMENTS, JUST SO THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS.

PANEL ASSIGNMENTS BY CITY CODE ARE CREATED BY THE BO THE CITY SECRETARY.

THE CITY SECRETARY LOOKS AT THE APPOINTMENTS FROM THE CITY COUNCIL, APPOINTMENTS FROM THE CITY COUNCIL, AND THEN BY VIRTUE OF ETHNIC DIVERSITY AND GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION, THE CITY SECRETARY ASSIGNS PEOPLE DIFFERENT TO DIFFERENT PANELS.

AND SO THIS IS THE PANEL ASSIGNMENT EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 13TH.

YOU'LL NOTICE THERE ARE A COUPLE PEOPLE STILL ON H FOR HOLDOVER THAT HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS YET WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

UM, BUT THAT'S THE CURRENT, THAT'S THE CURRENT STATUS AS OF OCTOBER TH 13TH.

NEXT PAGE IS THE SECTION.

UM, IT'S OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE.

UM, AND THAT IS 18 PAGES LONG.

UH, THIS IS ALSO LISTED ON OUR WEBSITE.

I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU ALWAYS HAVE THIS FRONT AND CENTER.

THIS IS OUR GUIDEPOST, UH, THIS BOARD LAST NOVEMBER, APPROVED UPDATES TO OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE APRIL 12TH OF THIS YEAR.

THE CITY COUNCIL UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THOSE RULES OF PROCEDURE, UM, WHICH IS A VERY BIG CHECK MARK FOR THE BOARD.

AND THESE ARE IN PLACE AS WE SPEAK NOW.

SO, UH, THERE REALLY, THERE AREN'T ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE BOARD OFFICERS TO THE BOARD ABOUT CHANGES TO THE RULES OF PROCEDURE.

BUT, UH, WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE COMMENT STAGE THIS AFTERNOON, THAT'LL BE, UM, THAT WE WILL OPEN ANY QUESTIONS OR, UH, SUGGESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE ON THAT QUESTIONS.

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CHAIRMAN'S UPDATE? I'M GONNA KEEP ROLLING HERE.

SO, MR. ZAPP, WAS IT YOUR RECOMMENDATION? WE WAIT TILL 10 FOR THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY SINCE I SAID 10 O'CLOCK.

SINCE WE NOTICED IT AT 10 O'CLOCK.

IT'S BEST WAY IN CASE ANYONE SHOWS UP AT 10 O'CLOCK EXPECTING NOT TO GIVE THEIR PUBLIC TESTIMONY UNTIL 10.

CAN WE START NOW AND JUST KEEP IT OPEN TILL THEN, BECAUSE IT'S FOUR, IT'S 9 43 AND I CAN ALWAYS TAKE THE SPEAKERS THAT ARE HERE NOW AND JUST MAKE SURE AT 10 THAT IT'S, WE'RE STILL, IS THAT OKAY? YES, THAT SHOULD BE JUST FINE.

MARY, UM, OR MS. BOARD SECRETARY, UM, UH, I WAS NOTIFIED BY OUR BOARD SECRETARY THAT WE HAVE FOUR PEOPLE THAT HAVE REGISTERED IN ADVANCE TO SPEAK TODAY.

UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? HAVE YOU REGISTERED WITH OUR BOARD SECRETARY IF YOU WOULD PLEASE? MR. CHAIRMAN? YES.

MS. LAMB.

UM, WOULD YOU SPEAK TO THE PROCESS OF THE, OF THE SPEAKERS? ARE THEY LIMITED IN TIME? ARE WE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS THREE MINUTES OR IS IT JUST THEM COMMENTS ON, ON RECORD? UH, WHAT, WHAT I'M GONNA INVITE IS EACH SPEAKER TO PRESENT FOR THREE MINUTES.

IF THERE'S A QUESTION THAT A BOARD MEMBER HAS RECOGNIZED THROUGH THE CHAIRMAN, UH, WE'LL HAVE A QUESTION AND ANSWER.

SO I'VE GOT ONE PERSON REGISTERING AND WE'VE GOT FOUR OTHERS THAT HAVE ALREADY REGISTERED.

SO WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND START THE, THE SPEAKERS ARE FIRST ON OUR LIST FOR SPEAKING.

IS STEVE LONG, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES.

SINCE WE'RE EARLY AND WE HAVE FOUR SPEAKERS, WE HAVE FIVE OR SIX COMING.

OH, ALRIGHT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT, OKAY.

UM, I'M GONNA SAY DO THREE MINUTES, BUT I'LL BE ELASTIC IN THE TIME.

I'LL BE GENEROUS.

WE'LL SAY FIVE MINUTES, BUT I, I DON'T WANNA BE TOO GENEROUS BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOU BY THREE O'CLOCK THIS AFTERNOON YOU'LL ALL BE SAYING, ARE WE DONE YET? SO I'M JUST SAYING IT'S NOW AN EASY IN COFFEE AND WE'RE ALL WAKING UP BY THREE O'CLOCK.

YOU'LL ALL BE SAYING WHY AREN'T WE DONE YET? SO, OKAY.

UH, SO WE'RE GONNA BEGIN PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

IF YOU WOULD GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS AND THEN YOU CAN SPEAK TO THE BOARD FOR FIVE MINUTES AND I THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME QUESTIONS.

VERY GOOD.

MY NAME IS STEVE LONG.

I'M HERE IN PART AS A CITIZEN OF DALLAS AT 9 0 2

[00:45:01]

THOMASON DRIVE.

ALSO HERE IN PART AS A CONSULTANT WITH MASTER PLAN AT 2201 MAIN STREET.

THANK YOU MR. LONG.

YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES.

I'D LIKE TO START BY, UM, THANKING ALL OF YOU, MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS, UM, FOR THIS SPECIAL MEETING, THE CALLING OF THIS SPECIAL MEETING.

I WAS INVOLVED WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, PROBABLY FROM THE MID NINETIES TO 2019.

I CAME BACK AS A CONTRACTOR.

I THINK THIS IS MAYBE THE FIFTH TIME IN 30 YEARS THAT I'VE ATTENDED A SPECIAL MEETING WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND I COMMEND YOU, MR. CHAIR, FOR ORGANIZING THIS SPECIAL MEETING AMONGST AND HAVING YOUR 15 MEMBERS HERE.

I THINK THERE'S A DEMONSTRATION ON YOUR PART AND THESE 15 PEOPLE HERE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO REALLY, UM, BEST SERVE THE CITIZENS IN DALLAS WITH ONE BOARDING COMMISSION.

I THINK THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SAID THERE'S 52 OF, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS HOLDING THIS SPECIAL MEETING.

I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.

AS A CITIZEN, AS A, AS A CONSULTANT.

UM, I WANT TO COMMEND YOU AND YOUR EFFORTS THAT YOU OUTLINED ON PAGE FOUR AND YOU HEAD UP ON THE SCREEN.

UM, THE PROCESS, THE CHAIRMAN'S UPDATE, FOCUS ON FAIRNESS, TRANSPARENCY, ACCURACY, ACCURACY AND TIMELINESS, ADVOCACY, MEETING WITH THE DIRECTOR OF DE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UM, SOLICITING FEEDBACK FROM BDA MEMBERS AND, AND, AND GIVING THAT TO STAFF.

UM, YOUR UPDATE OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE LAST YEAR, THE TRANSITION EFFORTS OF STAFF, THE PROGRESS, UM, THE NEW DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADMINISTRATOR, UM, TIME TO TAKE CASES, BRING CASES TO HEARING MORE COMPREHENSIVE STAFF ANALYSIS, IMPROVING THE WEBSITE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK I'M MOST EXCITED ABOUT OFF MY NOTES IS JUST TO SAY, WHEN I LOOKED AT THE WEBSITE AND I'M LOOKING AT YOUR 150 PAGES, I REALLY AM EXCITED FOR THE PROCESS AND SERVING THE CITIZENS, EITHER HOMEOWNERS OR DEVELOPMENT, UM, THE COMMUNITY WITH THE WHOLE FOCUS ON IMPROVING THE APPLICATION INTAKE PROCESS WITH BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

I THINK IT'S EXCITING THAT THERE'S A THRUST AND A FOCUS ON HELPING THE CITIZEN, UM, AT OAK CLIFF MUNICIPAL CENTER WITH UNDERSTANDING IF THEY'RE RED TAG OR THEY'RE SAYING, THIS DOESN'T WORK, YOUR CARPORT DOESN'T WORK, OR, HEY, YOUR MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE THEY, THEY SEND THEM TO A ROOM AND THEY MEET WITH A PERSON, A VERY QUALIFIED PERSON.

I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF WORKING WITH LAST YEAR, DIANA BARCO TO SIT DOWN WITH THAT PERSON, BE IT A PERSON HAS A CARPORT IN THE SIDE YARD, OR A DEVELOPER WITH A MULTI-STORY MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT TO SAY WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? WHAT ARE YOU, WHERE ARE YOU NOT COMPLIANT WITH OUR ZONING REGULATIONS? UM, PARKING.

WELL, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAS THE WHEREWITHAL TO GRANT VARIANCE OR SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO ALL STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS WHEN YOU CAN PROVE AT A HEARING THIS STANDARD OR HEY, UM, YOU HAVE A CARPORT IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACK, YOU GOT RED TAGGED, YOU CAN POSSIBLY A REMEDY THAT CARPORT IN THE FRONT YARD SET BACK BY A ADDRESSING THE STANDARD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO PROVE TO A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PANEL AT A HEARING WITH THIS PROVISION FROM OUR DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE.

I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD START WITH INVESTING AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF SOMEONE THAT IS, HAS A PROBLEM WITH SOME ASPECT OF OUR DEVELOPMENT CODE ZONING STANDARDS TO MEET WITH SOMEONE, A VERY PROFESSIONAL PERSON LIKE DIANA BARKUM AND SAY, LET'S TALK WHERE SHE'S, THERE'S ACTUALLY A VETTING PROCESS WHERE SOMEONE FROM THE GET-GO UNDERSTANDS HOW THEY WOULD ACHIEVE MAYBE COMING TO A PUBLIC HEARING WITH YOU AND HAVING A STANDARD THEY HAVE TO PROVE TO WIN THEIR APPLICATION TO YOU.

I THINK THAT'S VERY EXCITING.

UM, I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE, YEAH, ONCE AGAIN, I'M, I'M VERY APPRECIATIVE OF ALL YOUR SERVICE.

I KNOW THAT THERE'S A COLLECTION OF DEVELOPMENT INTEREST AND HOMEOWNER'S INTEREST AND I THINK IT'S, IT TAKES A VILLAGE.

I LOVE THE DIVERSITY ASPECT THAT MR. SHA, UM, SINGTON ME MENTIONED.

I THINK IT'S JUST VERY EXCITING.

I APPRECIATE YOUR, UM, UH, YOUR EFFORT TO, TO BRING THIS GROUP TOGETHER AGAIN THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED IN, IN, IN, IN ADDITION TO LAST YEAR.

AND I THINK IT'S VERY COMMENDABLE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, ALL OF YOU.

THANK YOU MR. LONG QUESTIONS FOR MR. LONG MS. LAMB? YES, MR. LONG, UM, APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TODAY.

LISTENED CAREFULLY BECAUSE I REALLY THINK AS TAMMY PALOMINO AND I WOULD REMEMBER, AND BURT VANDENBERG AND ALL THESE CITY ATTORNEYS, THE BEST.

, UM, YOU SERVED AT THE PUBLIC CAPACITY FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE BOARD AND THEN NOW YOU'RE IN THE PRIVATE CAPACITY.

IS THERE ANY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OR THOUGHTS IN THE PROCESS THAT NOW YOU'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT THAT YOU THINK THAT THE BOARD CAN BE, CAN DO BETTER AND MAKE THINGS MORE EFFICIENT? WELL, I REALLY, ONCE, I REALLY THINK IT'S MOST EXCITING, AND WHEN I WAS THE CONSULTANT LAST YEAR, I, I SPOKE TO MY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN TERMS OF SOPS AND HOW TO IMPROVE THE PROCESS.

I THINK THAT SOMEONE IN OAK CLIFF MUNICIPAL CENTER, MR. ESPINOSA AND SEK CENTER

[00:50:01]

UM, THE WAY THE A CASE WAS TAKEN IN IT EITHER SET UP THE, THE STAGE OR THE TRAIN TRACKS ON A REALLY SMOOTH PATH ARE REALLY BUMPY.

AND IT WAS, UM, THE INVESTMENT THAT WE TAKE THE CITY DOLLARS TAKES AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF A PROCESS TO INFORM SOMEONE THAT, HEY, MY CARPORT DOESN'T WORK.

IT'S IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.

HOW WOULD I GO ABOUT ACHIEVING THIS THROUGH A PROCESS? WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT SAYS, WELL, UM, YEAH, YOUR CARPORT'S IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACK, MR. AND MRS. JONES, THERE IS A PROCESS WITH A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BUT HERE IS THE STANDARD IN WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE TO PROVE TO WIN THIS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF YOU CHOSE TO MAKE AN APPLICATION THAT'S AT THE VERY BEGINNING BEFORE WE COLLECT $600 FROM THEM OR, UM, BEFORE WE SELL THE SIGN TO THEM.

AND IT'S, I THINK IT'S VERY, UM, CRITICAL.

IT'S THE BEST SERVICE TO THAT PERSON ACROSS THE TABLE BEFORE WE SAY, YEAH, HERE'S THE APPLICATION, UM, GIVE US 600 BUCKS.

AND THEN THEY COME TO THIS HEARING AND SAY, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I HAD TO PROVE THIS TO YOU.

IT WAS VERY, AND THERE WERE THOSE CASES.

AND I THINK THAT THERE'S NOW A THRUST IN A VERY, UM, GOOD EFFORT TO TRY TO ERASE THAT, UM, PERSON THAT MAY COME TO A HEARING 10 YEARS AGO AND SAY, WELL, I DIDN'T, WHY DIDN'T THEY TELL ME THAT WHEN I SUBMITTED THE APPLICATION THAT MY FENCE OVER FOUR FEET HAD TO BE PROVEN THAT IT WON'T ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY? I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME PROVING THAT BECAUSE I'M A MAVERICK BASKETBALL PLAYER AND I HAD SECURITY NEEDS, YOU'D GIVE IT TO ME.

NO, IT'S NOT.

THAT'S GREAT FEEDBACK.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. LONG, MR. ATCHING? UH, YEAH.

UM, MR. LONG THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY AND, UH, PLEASURE.

I'M GLAD TO, GLAD TO KNOW YOU'LL BE ON THE, UM, WE'LL BE SEEING YOU MORE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, OF THE TABLE .

UM, SO THANKS TO CHAIR NEWMAN FOR HIS EFFORTS AND, YOU KNOW, PROCESS IMPROVEMENT.

UH, I MEAN, I THINK WE, WE ALL APPRECIATE, UM, STREAMLINING AND IMPROVING OF HOW WE CONDUCT OUR, OUR OUR EFFORTS.

UM, I GUESS FROM YOU, MOST PEOPLE THAT COME, YOU KNOW, TO THE OFFICE TO SEE, UM, THE, THE MEMBERS OF STAFF THAT WANT TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION, THEY COME BECAUSE THEY FIND THEMSELVES IN A SITUATION IN MOST CASES THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THEY HAD CREATED FOR THEMSELVES OR, OR, OR, OR WHAT DO YOU THINK CAN BE DONE FROM A, AN EDUCATION STANDPOINT TO OUTREACH TO, TO, TO INFORM THE PUBLIC PRIOR TO YOU? YOU KNOW, I, I MEAN, PRIOR TO, UM, BUILDING FENCE, PRIOR TO ADDING ON PARTITION, I REALLY THINK THAT A LOT OF EMPHASIS, I DON'T KNOW HOW, I DON'T REALLY KNOW, BUT I KNOW THAT, UM, THERE'S FENCE CONTRACTORS IN MY NORTH OAK CLIFF NEIGHBORHOOD THAT PUT UP FENCES, AND THERE'S A NAME I CAN THINK OF AND IT'S LIKE, UM, MR. AND MRS. JONES HIRES ACME FENCE PERSON TO PUT UP A FENCE.

AND THEN , WE FIND OUT THAT ACME FENCE BUILDER CONTRACTOR HAS BUILT A FENCE EITHER TOO TALL OR IN THE VISUAL, IN THE, THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLES.

AND, UM, I DON'T REALLY THINK IT'S, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. AND MRS. JONES ARE REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THEIR CONTRACT WHEN THEY HIRE ACME FENCE CONTRACTORS WHO DO IT WRONG, PROBABLY ASSURE MAYBE MR. AND MRS. JONES, HEY, I'VE GOT ALL THE PERMITS NECESSARY ONLY TO FIND OUT LATER THAT THE FENCE WAS EITHER ERECTED IN THE WRONG LOCATION, INVISIBILITY TRIANGLES, OR TO TALLER THAN WHAT WAS ALLOWED BY CODE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WE OUTREACH TO THE COMMUNITY TO REALLY INFORM THEM OF LAWS OF, THAN SAY ANYTHING YOU NEED TO DO, ASSUME YOU NEED A PERMIT, ANY, AND THEN IF GO TO A CLIFF MUNICIPAL CENTER AND THEY SAY, NO, YOU DON'T NEED TO PERMIT FOR THAT.

WELL AT LEAST YOU'VE CROSS CHECKED THAT BOX OFF.

RIGHT? AND I REALLY ALWAYS FELT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT MAYBE CAME HERE AT THE VERY LAST MINUTE, THIS HEARING, AND AT LEAST ACTED LIKE THEY NEVER REALLY KNEW WHAT THE STANDARD WAS THAT YOU WOULD MEASURE THEM WITH HERE AT THIS HEARING.

IT REALLY MADE ME, UM, IT, IT SADDENED ME THAT SOME PEOPLE I REALLY TRULY BELIEVE WERE HERE REALLY NOT KNOWING WHAT THEY HAD TO PROVE TO YOU.

AND IT WAS REALLY UNFORTUNATE WHEN MAYBE SOMEONE BUILT AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE, THEY CAME TO YOU FOR FORGIVENESS, VARIANCE, .

I TRUSTED MY CONTRACTOR.

HE SAID I HAD EVERYTHING AND NOW I CAN'T FIND THEM.

WELL, OF COURSE EVERY CASE STANDS ON ITS OWN.

NO CASE SETS A PRECEDENT, BUT OH MY GOSH, WE SEE A LOT OF THOSE.

BECAUSE IF WE CAN, IF WE CAN SOMEHOW KEEP THE INCIDENT FROM HAPPENING, I THINK IT CREATES A BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE, UM, UH, SITUATION FOR EVERYBODY.

BUT THANK YOU.

WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS? SO, SO, SO CHAIR, CHAIR NEWMAN, UM, IF, IF I MIGHT, UH, I, I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALL BRAIN BRAINSTORM ON, HOW WE CAN OUTREACH TO, TO THE CONSTRUCTION COMMUNITY, TO HOMEOWNERS, TO, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME KIND OF INFORMATION.

[00:55:01]

I LIKE THE IDEA, UH, I'M, THERE'S A, IS THERE A BUILDERS ASSOCIATION IN DALLAS? I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT.

IS IT HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION? OKAY, MR. POOLE, THAT HAS, THAT HAS RUNWAY IT IN THE FUTURE OF US DOING SOME SORT OF OUTREACH TO THE LEADERSHIP OF THAT GROUP ABOUT WHAT ARE THE TYPICAL TRIP WIRES THAT THAT BUILDERS GET INTO ON BEHALF OF OWNERS THAT WE CAN MAYBE INFORM SO THAT THEY, WE REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF FORGIVENESS REQUESTS THAT WE HAVE.

'CAUSE THOSE THAT GIVE US ANGST.

SO I, I LIKE THAT IDEA.

I, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY, THAT RABBIT WE CAN CHASE.

I LIKE THAT.

OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. SAUK? WELL, WE'RE GONNA KEEP MOVING ON HERE.

KEEP MOVING ALONG.

AND, UH, STEVE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU STAYING ENGAGED.

WE APPRECIATE THAT.

UH, MY QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT I SEE REOCCURRING IS PROBLEMS CREATED BY CONTRACTORS AND THAT IT'S THE HOMEOWNER THAT IS LEFT HOLDING THE BAG, SO TO SPEAK.

HOW DO WE HOLD THE CONTRACTORS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ACTIONS THEY'VE TAKEN OR THEIR LACK OF ACTION THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN? SO THAT IS A PROBABLY A LEGAL QUESTION.

UH, AND UM, I DON'T WANNA MAKE A DETERMINATION OTHER THAN, UH, IN THE END, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S RESPONSIBLE.

AM I CORRECT MR. SAPP? THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

SO REGARDLESS, AND I'M GONNA OPINE FOR A SECOND THEN, THEN STOP.

'CAUSE I THINK WE HAVE ONE OR TWO OTHER COMMENTS IN THE END.

THE PROPERTY OWNERS, THE APPLICANT, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHO HE OR SHE HIRES ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, MANY TIMES WE'VE HAD CASES WHERE THE PROPERTY OWNER SAYS, I DID KNOW.

AND THAT'S NOT AN EXCUSE.

SO AM I CORRECT, MR. SAPP? THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

SO THE PRINCIPAL IS THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER.

THE AGENT ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE PRINCIPAL WOULD BE THE CONTRACTOR.

AND SO, UH, ULTIMATELY THE PROPERTY OWNER IS THE ONE WHO TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT.

SO I MEAN, THAT I AGREE, WE, BUT IT'S THE PROPERTY OWNER IN THE END BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES, IT'S, THEY HIRED SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING ON THEIR PROPERTY THAT THEREAFTER BECAME ILLEGAL OR NON-CONFORMING TO THAT POINT, UM, MR. SAUK, THAT, UH, SOME SORT OF OUTREACH TO THE BUILDERS ASSOCIATION MIGHT, UM, ALLEVIATE SOME OF THOSE, UH, PITFALLS.

BUT IS THERE A COUNCIL OR A LEGISLATIVE FIX TO THAT OR ENHANCEMENT TO THAT? I MEAN, YOU HIRE A DOCTOR AND YOU HAVE RECOURSE AGAINST, YOU KNOW, A DOCTOR FOR MALPRACTICE.

WHY NOT A CONTRACTOR? WELL, THE CITY WOULDN'T HAVE RECOURSE AGAINST THE CONTRACTOR, BUT THE PROPERTY OWNER PERHAPS WOULD HAVE A RECOURSE AGAINST THE CONTRACTOR IN A CIVIL SUIT THAT WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS.

OTHER QUESTIONS FROM MR. LONG, MR. OR VICE-CHAIRMAN AGNES? UH, THERE IS A SLIDE LATER ON IN THIS DECK THAT TALKS ABOUT, UH, WHAT DOES AND DOESN'T CONSTITUTE A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP.

THAT, THAT, THAT I HAVE QUESTIONS ON THAT, THAT TALKS ABOUT, UH, WHEN A HOMEOWNER MIGHT EFFECTIVELY GET RELIEF BY VIRTUE OF BUYING A PROPERTY, UH, THAT HAD AN EXISTING PROBLEM.

I'M NOT REALLY SURE I, I UNDERSTAND IT.

MY INSTINCT ON THE OTHER IS THAT IN THE END, CERTAINLY THE BOARD, UH, THIS IS IGNORANCE HAS A PEJORATIVE TERM, BUT IT, BUT IN THE END, UH, IT'S NOT A DEFENSE.

UH, SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. LONG? MR. LONG, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

WE CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MUCH WE APPRECIATED YOUR PREVIOUS SERVICE, MISSED YOUR PREVIOUS SERVICE, AND WE KNOW YOU'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, OF THE, OF THE TABLE NOW.

BUT WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU AS AN ADVOCATE FOR YOUR CLIENT.

AND THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN, MR. CHAIR AND ALL YOU MEMBERS FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE CITY OF DALLAS.

I, WE, I APPRECIATE YOU VERY MUCH.

UH, NEXT SPEAKER I HAVE IS ROBERT REEVES.

IF YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS AND THEN YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO, UH, SPEAK TO THE BOARD.

YOU NEED TO TURN YOUR MICROPHONE ON.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[01:00:01]

MY NAME'S ROBERT REEVES.

I'M AN ACTIVE ZONING CONSULTANT.

MY ADDRESS IS 38 0 7 VINE CREST DRIVE, DALLAS, TEXAS.

I JUST WANNA VERY QUICKLY GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MY, MY BACKGROUND BEFORE I ENTERED INTO THE, UH, PRIVATE SECTOR.

UH, I BEGAN WORKING FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS IN 1969.

UH, DON'T LAUGH, .

I'VE BEEN AROUND A WHILE AND ALL IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.

I WORKED THERE 16 YEARS.

UH, THE LAST FEW YEARS I WORKED FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.

I WAS OVER ALL THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SUBDIVISION AND ALL THE BUILDING CODES.

UH, ACTUALLY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL WAS UNDER ME AT THE TIME.

SO, UH, DURING THE EARLY EIGHTIES, THAT'S WHAT I WAS INVOLVED IN.

I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR SINCE 85, JULY OF 85.

I'M STILL WORKING FULL-TIME AND I ENJOY THE JOB.

I ENJOY INTERACTING WITH THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND THE CITIZENS AND SEEING IF I CAN HELP THEM OUT.

FRANKLY, I, UH, I OFTEN THINK THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PROVIDES THE FASTEST AVENUE AND THE MOST EFFICIENT AVENUE FOR SOLVING AN ISSUE, AT LEAST HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY OF SOLVING AN ISSUE VERSUS GOING THROUGH THE ZONING PROCESS.

THOSE OF US WHO WORK BOTH, BOTH AREAS, ZONING IS TAKING THEM EIGHT MONTHS OR SO TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.

IT CAN BE VERY EXPENSIVE.

ONCE I FILE A BOARD CASE AND IT'S ACCEPTED, I CAN USUALLY GET TO THE BOARD IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

I LOVE THAT .

THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.

OBVIOUSLY THE CRITERIA'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

UH, WE NEED TO PROVE A PROPERTY HARDSHIP THAT'S NOT SELF-CREATED, IF IT'S A VARIANCE.

I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETIMES THAT'S MORE DIFFICULT TO DO THAN OTHER TIMES.

IF IT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, LIKE FOR A, A FENCE, UM, THAT'S, YOU JUST MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL ON WHAT THE IMPACT IS FOR THE, FOR THE NEIGHBORS, THE STAFF.

AT LEAST THE STAFF USED TO NOT EVEN MAKE A, A RECOMMENDATION TO THAT.

I THINK THE BOARD PROCESS, AND MAYBE I'M A LITTLE NAIVE, HOPEFULLY NOT, IS CERTAINLY LESS POLITICAL THAN THE, THE ZONING CHANGE PROCESS.

UH, SINCE COUNCIL PLAN, COMMISSION'S NOT INVOLVED, UH, NO ONE CAN TALK TO YOU EXCEPT DURING A UNDER SWORN TESTIMONY, DURING A PUBLIC HEARING THAT APPLIES TO FOLKS LIKE MYSELF AND THE CITIZEN.

AND, UH, THAT'S IMPORTANT.

EVERYTHING COMES OUT AT THE, AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.

UH, ALL YOUR LETTERS AND STUFF ARE CERTAINLY AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC THAT YOU GET FROM THE PUBLIC, JUST LIKE THEY ARE IN THE ZONING CASES.

SO I REALLY, I REALLY LIKE WORKING WITH THE BOARD, UH, AND TRY TO, UH, GET THINGS DONE.

I FIND THE BOARD BEING VERY CONSCIENTIOUS, VERY, VERY FAIR.

UH, YES, I KNOW IT TAKES FOUR VOTES, AFFIRMATIVE VOTES TO GET ANYTHING APPROVED.

UH, BUT THAT'S JUST PART OF THE PROCESS.

AND THE PROCESS IS VERY CLEAR FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.

YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY STRUCTURED, VERY CLEAR, THE STEPS THAT NEED TO BE FOLLOWED, IT'S PROVIDED TO YOU BY THE STAFF.

I COMMEND THE STAFF FOR DOING THAT.

SO, UH, IT'S, IT'S JUST AN EXTREMELY CLEAR, EFFICIENT PROCESS.

UM, I MENTIONED THAT, UH, WELL, YOU HAVE, ON ONE PARTICULAR CASE, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO OVERRULE THE DECISION OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF MEMBER, WHICH IS TYPICALLY, UH, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.

FRANKLY, I'VE ONLY ASKED THE BOARD TO DO THAT ONE TIME SINCE 19 80, 85.

THAT'S SOMETHING I DO NOT WANNA DO UNLESS I'M ACTUALLY FORCED TO DO IT, BUT YOU DO HAVE THAT AUTHORITY, THAT RELIEF.

THOSE ARE PROBABLY VERY DIFFICULT KINDS OF THINGS TO DO.

YOU HAVE A GREAT STAFF.

I ENJOY WORKING FOR THEM OR NOT FOR THEM, WITH THEM.

UH, I COMMEND THEM.

TO ME, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE DECISION MAKERS AT THE STAFF LEVEL BEFORE THE STAFF MAKES A FI, YOU KNOW, A FINAL DETERMINATION OR A RECOMMENDATION, LIKE ON A, ON A VARIANCE.

I JUST WANT THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT DOWN AND PRESENT, UH, MY THOUGHTS IN MY CASE.

AND SO I'M SURE THE STAFF WILL, UH, CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THAT OPPORTUNITY THAT I'M JUST THAT KIND OF PERSON.

I'M ONE, ONE-ON-ONE MEETING ACROSS FROM, UH, ACROSS FROM THE FOLKS AND LOOKING AT 'EM IN THE EYE.

MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.

I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE BOARDS AND THE, AND THE ALTERNATES, AND I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

THANK YOU, MR. REESE.

WE APPRE I DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU HAD THAT LEGACY HISTORY WITH THE CITY.

THAT'S, UH, THAT'S PRETTY IMPRESSIVE.

IT WAS BUSY.

I THOUGHT I WAS OLD BEING 18 YEARS AGO, OR 19 YEARS AGO ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THAT THAT'S NOTHING COMPARED TO YOUR LEGACY CON.

[01:05:01]

QUESTIONS FOR MR. REEVES? MR. AGNES, CAN YOU GET THAT FACE-TO-FACE TIME TODAY? I'M SORRY.

CAN I, WHAT? THE, THE ONE-ON-ONE TIME THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ABILITY TO SPEAK QUICKLY WITH, WITH THE DECISION MAKERS.

ARE YOU ABLE TO GET THAT? WHAT IS IT? UM, WE, WE HEAR DIFFERENT, FRANKLY.

AND, AND I KNOW, UH, AND MR. ESPINOZA WAS HERE, UH, PREVIOUSLY, HE'S GOT A LOT OF GREAT IDEAS.

UH, I ENJOY WORKING WITH THE STAFF.

THERE WAS, UM, AT LEAST FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, SOME REASSIGNMENTS, UH, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT ROLES WITH THE STAFF.

AND ONCE, UH, THAT THAT'S BEEN SET UP, I'VE, I HAVE FOUND IT, UH, VERY CONVENIENT, INABILITY TO WORK WITH THE STAFF.

I JUST WANT TO TALK TO 'EM BEFORE A FINAL DECISION IS MADE, AND I'M SURE THEY'LL MAKE THAT, UH, AVAILABLE TO ME.

WE, WE, UH, AS MEMBERS DON'T SEE THAT PART OF THE PROCESS.

WE'RE, WE'RE NOT PART OF IT.

UH, I, WE HEAR DIFFERENT THINGS.

UH, I, I DON'T KNOW, UH, WHAT IT TAKES, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S AN APPOINTMENT OR, UH, YOU CAN DO IT OVER THE TELEPHONE SO THAT I ALSO, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU AS PROFESSIONALS, UH, AS OPPOSED TO SOMEBODY WHO'S JUST COMING IN.

YOU, YOU ARE VERY AWARE OF ALL OF THE STANDARDS.

SO IT'S A, IT'S, I'M REALLY ASKING WHAT, WHAT KIND OF ACCESS YOU HAVE IN ORDER TO WALK THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I GUESS.

'CAUSE I'VE BEEN AROUND SO MUCH.

I FEEL LIKE I HAVE, I HAVE GOOD ACCESS.

AT LEAST I CAN FIND OUT , YOU KNOW, WHO I NEED TO BE TALKING TO.

UH, AND IN RESPECT TO THE STAFF, IT'S PROBABLY BETTER TO MAKE APPOINTMENTS.

UH, SO YOU DON'T JUST WALK IN ON 'EM.

AND, AND I'VE BEEN, UH, SUCCESSFUL IN DOING THAT.

UH, I JUST WANNA ENCOURAGE THE STAFF TO BE OPEN NOW THAT, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, NOW THAT IT'S KIND OF SETTLED DOWN IN STAFF REASSIGNMENTS AND NEW LOCATIONS, UH, IT, IT SHOULD BE A LOT, A LOT EASIER TO GET TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

THANK ONE OF 'EM IS ON MY LEFT, .

THANK YOU, MR. AGNES, ARE THERE QUESTIONS FOR MR. REEVES? MR. SINGTON? I, I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I, I, I THINK I DO HAVE A, A POINT OF CLA UM, MAYBE A CLARIFYING COMMENT.

UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UM, THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS PROCESS IS, UM, TO PARAPHRASE MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE PLANNING PROCESS.

I JUST WANNA MAKE A DISTINCTION THAT THOSE TWO PROCESSES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND ONE DOESN'T USURP, UM, OR SUPERSEDE, OR IS NOT A ALTERNATIVE TO THE OTHER FOR ANYBODY WHO MAY BE, MAY HAVE BEEN LISTENING OUT IN TV WORLD.

SO, WELL, UH, RESPECTFULLY, THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO VIA BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT, UH, BUT THEY, AS MR. REEVES MENTIONED, AND AS OUR BOARD ATTORNEY WILL SPEAK TO LATER TODAY, UH, THOSE REQUIRE, THERE'S A SPECIFIC QUASI-JUDICIAL CRITERIA.

THERE'S NOT, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED THE, THE POLITICS THERE, THERE THERE'S NO POLITICS BECAUSE NONE OF US CAN SPEAK WITH AN APPLICANT PROSPECTIVELY OR ABOUT A PENDING CASE.

SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT GUARDRAILS.

UM, AND I WILL SAY THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE PRESSING THE STAFF FOR MR. AND MR. ESPINOZA IS TO REDUCE THE, THE DELAY TIME BETWEEN APPLICATION TO HEARING.

UM, AND YOU'LL HEAR LATER TODAY, MR. POOL COMMIT ON BEHALF OF MR. ESPANZA A GOAL OF 60 DAYS IN THIS NEXT YEAR.

AND WE APPLAUD THAT.

AND, BUT, UH, SO THERE, THERE ARE DIFFERENT LANES THAT, THAT THE, THE CODE AND THE STATUTE ALLOWS US TO INTERVENE ON.

UM, IT'S A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE FOR THE PLANNING PROCESS AS FAR AS A ZONING ISSUE OR A PLAN, A PD PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.

BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A FUNCTION OF, UH, I GUESS THE, THE, THE APPLICANT'S LEVEL OF TOLERANCE AND HOW MUCH THEY WANNA CHANGE ON A PENDING REQUEST.

SO, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. REEVES? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR PREVIOUS CITY SERVICE AND YOUR COMMENTS, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU ON BEHALF OF YOUR CLIENTS.

SO, UM, MS. MARY, MS. WILLIAMS, OUR BOARD SECRETARY, I HAVE, IS MR. CORAN THE ONLY OTHER PERSON THAT'S IN ATTENDANCE THERE? OTHERS ARE ONLINE, IS THAT CORRECT? MR. SANTOS IS ONLINE AND, BUT MR. COTHAM, YOUR HONOR, I'M GONNA DO THOSE THAT ARE HERE FIRST.

MR. CATHERINE, IS THAT THE ONLY OTHER PERSON HERE, UH, THAT, THAT'S REGISTERED TO SPEAK? I THINK SO.

AS AT LEAST AS I LOOK IN THE AUDIENCE, YES.

YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, THEN YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO PRESENT TO THE BOARD.

SO WE'LL GO TO MR. CORO, SIR.

WELCOME.

[01:10:01]

UH, DALLAS, CATHERINE, 2201 MAIN STREET.

I'LL MAYBE DO A LITTLE BACKGROUND TOO.

AND I'VE SERVED ON CITY OF DALLAS BOARDS.

I'M ON A BOARD IN A DIFFERENT JURISDICTION NOW IN A SCHOOL, UH, DISTRICT FUNCTION TOO.

SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

I MEAN, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME FOR THAT BOX BOX LUNCH YOU GET.

YOU HAVE TO GET ALL FOUR PEOPLE.

UH, I APPRECIATE IT.

SO, UH, YOU KNOW, MY DAD SERVED ON THE DALLAS COUNCIL FROM 65 TO 80 BEFORE STARTING MASTER PLAN, UH, DURING THE EIGHTIES HE OFFICE WITH ROBERT REEVES.

I ANSWERED THE PHONE FOR ROBERT, UH, IN THE SUMMERS AT ROBERT REEVES AND ASSOCIATES.

SO, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE'RE NOW IN FIVE TEXAS CITIES, AND I SOLD TO PRIVATE EQUITY A YEAR OR SO AGO.

AND SO WE'RE DOING ZONING AND BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CASES, LITERALLY IN PROBABLY 20 STATES.

SO I COUNTED LAST NIGHT, I'VE APPEARED IN 64 DIFFERENT BOARDS OF ADJUSTMENT THAT I CAN RECALL IN THE METROPLEX.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I THINK BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WORK IS A LITTLE BIT BIMODAL.

YOU GET PEOPLE DOWN HERE THAT ARE JUST REGULAR CITIZENS THAT ARE OFTEN HERE AS YOU'VE NOTICED, A VICTIM IN SOME WAYS.

SOMETIMES THEY'RE HERE AS THEY ON, UH, FOR THEMSELVES, BUT OFTEN THEY'RE HERE BECAUSE CONTRACTOR FAILURE, UH, STAFF FAILURE, THEY REVIEWED THE PLAN, APPROVED IT, AND THEN IT TURNED OUT THAT, OH, YOU CAN'T HAVE A POOL THERE OR A FENCE OR, AND NOW THEY HAVE A PROBLEM THAT THEY INHERITED THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT.

UM, AND SO THAT'S, UH, A PROBLEM.

AND THEN YOU HAVE APPLICANTS LIKE US.

SO, SO YOU GET TWO VERY DIFFERENT CUSTOMERS.

UM, YOU KNOW, I I, I THINK THE FIRST GROUP OF CUSTOMERS HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH DIFFERENTLY THAN THE SECOND GROUP.

YOU CAN'T HAVE DIFFERENT RULES, BUT, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK SOME VIDEO, YOUTUBE TYPE VIDEOS, UH, WHERE THE STAFF DOES MORE EXPLAINING AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

THE, YOU KNOW, COMPARATIVELY, AND I KNOW IF Y'ALL, Y'ALL PROBABLY HAVE NOT BEEN TO 64 DIFFERENT BOARDS OF ADJUSTMENT, I WOULDN'T ENCOURAGE YOU TO.

UM, AND, UM, THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST INTIMIDATING, LEAST FRIENDLY VENUE.

THIS WHOLE BUILDING IS SUPER FRIGHTENING.

IF YOU'RE, I MEAN, THIS IS AN INTIMIDATING PLACE.

I MEAN, NOW THIS IS A HOME GAME FOR ME.

I LIKE COMING DOWN HERE.

I KNOW ALL THE CITY DALLAS RULES.

I UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS WORK.

UM, SO I LIKE WORKING HERE.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, LIKE I, I THINK FORT WORTH SYSTEM OVERALL IS MUCH BETTER, AND IT'S USUALLY MUCH BETTER IN A LOT OF, A LOT OF REASONS.

I'LL PROBABLY TALK MORE ABOUT THAT.

BUT THEY HAVE ONE PANEL FOR HOMEOWNER ISSUES FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMEOWNER.

THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT BOARD FOR COMMERCIAL ISSUES.

THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THAT SINGLE FAMILY ONE, IT'S JUST THAT WHOLE BOARD WORKS DIFFERENTLY, AND THEY HEAR DOZENS AND DOZENS OF CASES IN A DAY.

THEY GET SO MUCH MORE VOLUME DONE, UH, THAN THAN ANY OTHER CITY.

SO THEY'VE GOT A GOOD SYSTEM.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU GUYS MAYBE TO LOOK AT THAT, BUT THEY DISPOSE OF THOSE FORGIVENESS MATTERS.

I THINK AGNES CALLED IT THAT.

BUT, BUT, AND, AND THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF THOSE ARE.

UH, AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE YOU HAVE THOSE, UM, OTHER THAN TOWN OF HIGHLAND PARK, THIS IS THE MOST DIFFICULT JURISDICTION TO GET A VICTORY IN.

UM, SOME OF IT IS, IS YOUR FIVE PANEL.

UH, YOU KNOW, MOST CITIES PROBABLY HAVE SEVEN AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO HAVE FIVE.

WHEN I EXPLAIN TO MY CLIENTS AND WHEN THEY CALL, AND WE DO SEE THE BOARD AS AN ALTERNATIVE, I MEAN, IT'S JUST A ABSOLUTELY A STRATEGIC DECISION.

SHOULD WE GO TO THE BOARD AND MAYBE GET DONE IN 90 DAYS? OR SHOULD WE DO A ZONING CASE WHERE WE CAN DO A LOT OF LOBBYING AND WE CAN MAYBE GET A WIDER NUMBER OF THINGS ACCOMPLISHED? SO IT'S AN, IT'S A STRATEGIC DECISION, UH, FOR US.

BUT I TELL THEM IMMEDIATELY IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, YOU HAVE FIVE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, CITIZENS.

YOU CAN'T TALK TO THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

THEY HAVE A WIDE RANGE OF KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE.

I MEAN, THERE'S SOME PEOPLE ON THIS PANEL THAT HAVE DONE THIS THEIR WHOLE ADULT LIFE, IT SEEMS LIKE PROBABLY TO THEM, IT'S LIKE A PRISON SENTENCE.

UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE HERE FOR A 20 YEAR TERM.

I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S A PRISON SENTENCE, BUT OKAY.

BUT, BUT FOR A LONG TIME.

AND THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO, AND, AND EVEN WITHIN THE THREE PANELS, I MEAN, IF YOU TALK TO THE CON TO THE CONSULTANTS, UM, YOU KNOW, WE ADVISE OUR CLIENTS ON SOME PANELS ARE MORE FORGIVING THAN OTHERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE WEIGH THOSE, IT CHANGES OVER TIME, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE MONITOR CLOSELY.

UH, SO, UM, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN TOWN OF HIGHLAND PARK, Y'ALL ARE, Y'ALL ARE THE MOST DIFFICULT TO GET AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE THAT I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S GOOD OR BAD.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S TRUE IN ZONING TOO.

DENTON AND FLOWER MOUNT ARE THE WORST PLACES, UH, TO, TO GO, UH, TO, TO, TO WORK IN.

AND SO I, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, WE TELL CLIENTS THAT, AND SOMETIMES THEY JUST PASS ON DEALS, BUT THAT, THAT IS THE WAY IT IS HERE.

YOU KNOW, ONE OTHER PROBLEM IS THERE ARE ATTENDANCE PROBLEMS WHERE YOU HAVE FOUR PEOPLE SHOW UP AND

[01:15:01]

I MEAN, THE EXAMPLE OF MY DAD ALWAYS GAVE ABOUT DALLAS WAS, I THINK IT'S A GOOD ONE, IS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET FIVE PEOPLE INTO THE CAR TO DECIDE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA GO TO LUNCH.

OH, I WANT MEXICAN FOOD.

OH, I HAD MEXICAN FOOD LAST NIGHT.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET FOUR OUTTA FIVE PEOPLE TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING THAT FIVE OUTTA SEVEN IS A BETTER NUMBER.

I THINK IT JUST IS A LITTLE MORE HUMANE THAT YOU CAN GET A COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT ARE AT, YOU KNOW, UM, MAYBE AGAINST AND STILL WIN.

BUT THAT'S JUST HAVING BEEN TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT BOARDS.

I DON'T THINK THIS SYSTEM NECESSARILY IS, THE MATH ON IT IS HARDER.

I, I, I, I EXPECT, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, I, I, WHEN STEVE WAS HERE, I OFTEN WOULD, AND BEFORE I HAD KIDS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SEE STEVE AT SIX 30 IN THE MORNING.

THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PROCESS IS VERY TECHNICAL.

THE TYPE OF REQUESTS ARE NOT REALLY TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS.

IT REQUIRES YOU TO BE ABLE TO GO IN AND SIT DOWN AND SEE.

AND WHILE I DON'T APPEAR BEFORE YOU GUYS A LOT, I KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING ON ALL, MAYBE NOT ALL THE PARTICULARS, BUT I KNOW WHAT, WHAT WE HAVE IN, IN THE BASKET THAT WE'RE WORKING.

AND WE, IT'S, IT'S, WE CAN JUST WALK IN, IN FRISCO AND BEDFORD AND ALMOST ANY TOWN OF HIGHLAND PARK, WE CAN WALK IN AND GET SERVICE FROM PEOPLE.

UM, CAN I KEEP GOING? THANK YOU.

UM, I'M NOT A MAN OF FEW WORDS AND I'M THE BAD COP.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK Y'ALL, THAT'S WHAT THESE DAYS ARE FOR, IS TO HEAR WHAT THE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ARE.

SO I HAVE THE EXPECTATION THAT THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S BUILDING.

PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AT ANY POINT AND TALK ABOUT THEIR APPLICATIONS.

I MEAN, I WOULD DO THAT SOMETIMES TWO OR THREE TIMES WITH STEVE.

AND I KNOW THAT BY THE TIME IT HIT HIS DESK WITHIN A WEEK, HE'S BEEN TO THE SITE, HE'S TAKEN PICTURES, HE STUDIED THAT.

UM, IT, IT'S A REASONABLE EXPECTATION FOR YOU GUYS THAT THE, THAT THE STAFF DOES THAT EARLY IN THE PROCESS AND REALLY UNDERSTANDS ALL OF THOSE ADJACENCIES.

WHAT ARE THOSE OTHER FENCES THAT ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT IT IS.

'CAUSE I KNOW I, IT WAS MUCH EASIER TO PRESENT HERE WHEN STEVE DID IT.

'CAUSE HE GAVE YOU A REALLY GOOD TOUR OF WHAT, IF YOU WERE OUT THERE, YOU WOULD SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW YOU CAN'T GO LOOK AT IT.

WHEN I WAS THE VICE CHAIR OF THE PERMIT LICENSE APPEAL BOARD HERE, I ALWAYS FELT CONSTRAINED THAT THE CITY ATTORNEYS DID NOT LET US GO LOOK AT THESE NIGHTCLUBS.

I WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE HAD SOME IDEA ABOUT WHAT I WAS VOTING ON.

UM, I JUST ALWAYS PUSH THE GREEN BUTTON THAT'S THE RIGHT ONE TO PUSH.

THAT'S A JOKE.

UM, SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT, I THINK THE C L'S PROCESS ON INTAKE IS ALSO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN ANYONE ELSE.

IT'S NOT ONLY A SCAVENGER HUNT, THE ACCURACY LEVEL SO MUCH HIGHER.

OTHER CITIES DON'T REQUIRE ALL THESE CERTIFIED DEEDS.

YOU KNOW, DALLAS' LEVEL OF APPLICATION STUFF IS, IS JUST A LOT MORE, IT CO CREATES MORE EXPENSE.

AND FRANKLY, A LOT OF THOSE THINGS THEY HAVE ON THEIR COMPUTERS, THE TAX PLATS, THE ZONING MAPS, I MEAN, THOSE DATES TO LIKE, WHEN MR. REEVES WAS THE DIRECTOR, WHEN THOSE WERE NOT READILY AVAILABLE AND HE NEEDED TO PROVIDE THE FILE, ALL THAT STUFF EXISTS TODAY.

I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT IF STAFF WOULD WORK WITH THE VARIOUS APPLICANTS THAT, OR FREQUENT FLYERS, WE COULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ONLY EASIER FOR THE PROFESSIONAL APPLICANTS, BUT MUCH EASIER FOR MA AND PA WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO GO TO THE COUNTY AND DO ALL THESE THINGS.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT IT'S, I WOULD SAY THAT'S NOT CUSTOMARY.

I MEAN, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT P PETER DRUCKER LINE EFFICIENCY IS DOING THINGS RIGHT, AFFECTING THIS, IS DOING THE RIGHT THINGS.

YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO DO BOTH THE RIGHT THINGS AND THE RIGHT WAYS.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FASTER.

THAT 60 DAY AND FORT WORTH ALWAYS FINISHES IN 60 DAYS.

MOST COMMUNITIES DO.

IT WOULD BE A MORE ATTRACTIVE OPTION EVEN IF WE COULD GET A DECISION QUICKER.

I MEAN, THE BEST, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES I JUST HAVE CLIENTS THAT WANT AN ANSWER.

I MEAN, THEY WANNA WIN.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO GOOD OPTIONS, I THINK IS, IS, IS, UM, YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT OR A FAST, LARGELY INEXPENSIVE.

THAT'S ANOTHER ASSOCIATION.

UM, AND YOU'D PROBABLY SEE A HIGHER VOLUME OF APPLICATIONS IF YOU, YOU DID THAT.

OKAY, I WANNA MAKE SURE FIVE, UM, OH, OH, TEO, YOU MEANT HOME BUILDER ASSOCIATION.

YOU SHOULD GO TO TEO TOO.

I'M HAPPY TO TALK TO STAFF ABOUT ALL THESE DIFFERENT TRADE GROUPS.

UM, WHEN ED SIMONS, SOME OF YOU REMEMBER, MAY REMEMBER MY LATE COLLEAGUE, ED SIMONS, WHEN ED WORKED WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

NOW, MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, ED WAS A MEMBER OF TEXO AND HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, WOULD MAKE PRESENTATIONS, BUT ALSO HE JUST WAS A RESOURCE FOR THEM.

UM, 'CAUSE THIS IS, YOU SHOW UP AT, AT SOME OF THE BOARDS IN OTHER CITIES,

[01:20:01]

THE, THE BAR'S NOT QUITE AS HIGH.

UM, YOU KNOW, HERE IT'S VERY HIGH.

EVERYONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO, UM, THE LAST THING I'LL SAY ABOUT DATING THE APPLICATIONS, LIKE WHEN WE COME IN AND FILE AN APPLICATION, WE EXPECT THAT IT'S TURNED IN ON WHATEVER DAY IT IS.

THAT'S THE DAY.

I KNOW I'VE HAD SOME CLIENTS OR CONTRACTORS, WHOEVER IT IS, THERE'S SOME THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT THE ACTUAL DAY IS.

THE DAY IT COMES IN THAT YOU GET PAID IS THE DAY IT HAPPENED.

UM, I I ALSO THINK YOU OUGHT TO TAKE AS MANY APPLICATIONS AS COME IN, IN THAT, IN THAT TIME PERIOD FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

AND I IS THAT IF YOU GOT 'EM IN BY THAT DATE, THERE WEREN'T RESERVATIONS.

YOU'RE NOT RUNNING A RESTAURANT HERE, IN MY ESTIMATION.

SO YOU JUST HAVE TO PROCESS MORE CASES.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT, I MEAN, I HAVE SOME PLANNERS THAT CARE THAT PROBABLY HAVE 40 OR MORE CASES IN 15 JURISDICTIONS.

UM, AND SOME OF THOSE ARE, MANY OF THEM ARE FORMER CITY DALLAS PEOPLE.

THEY CAN DO IT.

UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ANOTHER DIRECTOR LINES ABOUT MANAGEMENT, YOU KNOW, THE PRODUCTIVITY OF EMPLOYEES IS NOT UP TO THE EMPLOYEE.

IT'S UP TO THE MANAGERS.

AND I KNOW YOU'RE NOT EXACTLY THE MANAGERS, BUT YOU CAN TALK TO THE MANAGERS.

SO HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THANK YOU MR. CATHERINE, FOR YOUR COMMENTS.

UH, MANY I AGREE WITH SOME I DISAGREE WITH, BUT I APPRECIATE YOU SPEAKING HONESTLY.

UH, AND FORTHRIGHTLY WITH US.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. COTRAN.

I'VE GOT MR. UH, VICE CHAIR, AGNES, AND I'VE GOT VICE CHAIR GA, MR. AGNES, WELL, I THINK I SPEAK FOR THE ENTIRE CITY WHEN I SAY THAT WE ARE, SORRY YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO DO IN-PERSON RESEARCH ON THE NIGHTCLUBS BACK IN THE DAY.

UM, UH, TWO QUESTIONS.

ONE, CAN YOU GIVE, LIKE, DO YOU KNOW WHO DOES A GOOD JOB ON YOUTUBE WEBSITE? SO IF YOU'VE GOT EXAMPLES THAT THAT'D BE GREAT.

UM, SECOND QUESTION, YOU CAN, OR IF YOU HAD TO PROVIDE QUANTIFIABLE STANDARDS THAT SAY IF YOU DO A, B AND C, YOU AS A BOARD SUCCEED, WHAT ARE THEY? AND, AND ONE COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY AND PROMPTLY WITH EVERYBODY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I I IF YOU READ MY MORNING NEWS COLUMNS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A PLACE WHERE WE GET TREATED LIKE A CUSTOMER ANYMORE.

WE ONCE DID THIS.

DALLAS USED TO HAVE, LIKE, WHEN ROBERT WAS HERE, MIKE CO OR SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, DALLAS HAD THE BEST STAFF.

THEY HAD BY FAR THE BEST STAFF MEMBERS IN THE ENTIRE REGION.

AND THEY WERE COVETED BY ARLINGTON AND PLANO, AND THEY WOULD HIRE THEM AWAY.

UM, YOU KNOW, NOW I THINK FRISCO IN PLANO ARE THE MODEL THAT'S WHERE, WHERE, YOU KNOW, AND THEY HAVE VERY PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS GET BACK TO YOU THE SAME DAY.

I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, NOW THAT WE'RE WORKING IN OTHER STATES, LOS ANGELES IS GREAT.

I COULD CALL THEM 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW ALL THE RULES THEY'RE ABOUT.

THEY HAVE A LOT DIFFERENT PROCESS.

I, THEY CALL ME BACK WITHIN AN HOUR USUALLY.

I MEAN, I CAN GET AN ASSISTANT DIRECTOR ON THE PHONE.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, TREAT EVERYBODY LIKE A CUSTOMER, EVEN IF THEY'RE LIKE US.

THE FREQUENT FLYERS, BUT PARTICULARLY REGULAR CITIZEN, YOU KNOW, AND, AND STEVE WAS GREAT AT, AT, UM, UH, COACHING THOSE PEOPLE, NOT HELPING THEM WITH STRATEGY OR THING, BUT HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE ALL THE RULES THAT, AND, AND HOW TO BE PREPARED AND NOT COME DOWN HERE AND BE INTIMIDATED.

THOSE ARE THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE BY VIDEO AS WELL.

UM, YOU KNOW, I I THINK THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, I THINK AS APPLICANTS, WE HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION THAT IF, IF WE HAVE TO GET FOUR OUT OF FIVE, WE DESERVE TO HAVE FIVE PEOPLE HERE.

AND WE, I APPRECIATE THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB OF GETTING THOSE SEATS FILLED.

BUT THERE WERE SOME YEARS, I MEAN, I KNOW ROBERT, YOU'D SOMETIMES BE THERE EVERY DAY AS AN ALT ALTERNATE.

I MEAN, YOU WERE ON EVERY PANEL TO, TO BE VERY CLEAR, IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD EVERY PANEL FILLED FIVE FOR FIVE.

THAT'S GOOD.

THAT'S ABSOLUTELY A CRITICAL THING.

IT IS BETWEEN MY BOARD, SECRETARY AND I THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT IF A REGULAR MEMBER CANNOT MAKE THE MEETING, WE GET IT STAFFED WITH AN ALTERNATE.

GOOD.

AND WE, AND THAT IS A HIGH PRIORITY.

SHAKE YOUR HEAD OR NOT, MS. MARY.

YEAH, IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT THING BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT BURDEN THAT IS BURDEN IS SET BY THE LEGISLATURE.

75%.

WE DIDN'T SET THAT, THE CITY DIDN'T SET THAT STATE OF TEXAS SAID AFFIRMATIVE DECISIONS FROM A, FROM A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IN THE STATE OF TEXAS REQUIRE 75%.

AND SINCE IT'S THREE FIVE PERSON PANELS, THAT REQUIRES FOUR.

SO I DON'T WANT, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY FOR THE RECORD, WE HAVE THAT IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A PANEL OF FIVE AND WE'RE GONNA TRY TO STAY THAT WAY.

GOOD.

THAT'S WHY IT'S SO ESSENTIAL THAT IF A REGULAR MEMBER CANNOT MAKE IT, THAT WE ACTIVATE ALTERNATES AND THE ALTERNATES ARE KEPT ABREAST ALONG THE WAY.

SO I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT,

[01:25:01]

SO, BUT NO, IT'S, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT FOR THE RECORD.

ALRIGHT, OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. COTHAM? I'VE GOT MS. GABO.

UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UH, WE, YOU ARE NOT SEEING THAT WE, WE DON'T HEAR OF THAT MANY APPLICATIONS.

AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE NOT SEEN A LOT OF APPLICATIONS EVERY MONTH.

UM, WE'VE CAN'T, WE'VE BEEN CANCELING A LOT OF PANELS.

IS THAT BECAUSE THERE'S A BACKLOG OR ARE Y'ALL NOT HEARING THE CASES? SO I AM, I MEAN, OR IS THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT COMING TO THE CITY 'CAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT.

I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE DOING SO MANY CASES.

I THINK THAT'S, I, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR NUMBERS ARE DOWN.

I MEAN, OUR, OUR NUMBERS ARE NOT DOWN AT MASTER PLAN.

I I, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR DALLAS-FORT WORTH FRISCO OFFICES, I MEAN, OUR NUMBERS ARE FAIRLY CONSISTENT, BUT THEY'RE WAY DOWN IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

PEOPLE ARE VOTING THEIR WALLETS OR THEIR RISK FACTOR OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND THEY'RE CHOOSING TO DO BUSINESS IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.

UM, I, I HAVE A HARDER TIME SPEAKING FOR HOMEOWNERS WHO GENERATE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE, BUT I KNOW THAT HOME BUILDERS ARE ALSO DOING FEWER CASES.

UM, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THEM TO DO CASES.

I MEAN, IT'S GOOD FOR US TO, TO DO THAT.

I MEAN, BUT, UM, YOUR VOLUME'S DOWN BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU, YOU'RE NOT AS LIKELY, YOU'RE NOT PROBABLY AS LIKELY TO GET VARIANCES OR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS IS IN OTHER PLACES.

AND THEY JUST GO ON.

OR SOMETIMES I THINK THEY'RE PASSING ON DEALS.

I MEAN, WE'RE DOING, WE HAVE A LOT OF PROJECTS.

MAYBE THEY'RE MORE ZONING, BUT SOMETIMES THEY JUST WANT A SOLUTION.

THEY HAVE A PROBLEM.

I MEAN, IT COULD BE THE BOARD, IT COULD BE A ZONING THING.

WE'RE STILL DOING ALMOST AS MANY PROPOSALS ON DUE DILIGENCE, BUT THEY ARE NOT MAKING INTO JOBS.

UH, THERE'S A LOT MORE OF THOSE THAT ARE NOT MAKING IN CITY OF DALLAS THAN IN CITY OF FRISCO OR ARLINGTON OR BEDFORD OR THESE OTHER COMMUNITIES.

YOU KNOW? UM, SOME OF IT'S JUST SPEED OF SERVICE.

I MEAN, PEOPLE WANT TO TURN AROUND CASES VERY QUICKLY.

SO IF YOU CAN MAKE IT, I MEAN THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, I MEAN, LIKE PLANO IS SO FAST ON THINGS.

WE OFTEN HAVE TO ASK FOR A DELAY.

I MEAN, WHEN THEY PUBLISH THE, THE CALENDAR, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S AN ICE STORM OR NO ELECTRICITY, THEY'LL HAVE THE COMMENTS TO YOU USUALLY BEFORE THE DAY.

BUT ABSOLUTELY EVERY TIME WITHOUT EXCEPTION, THEY ALWAYS ARE THERE.

AND THAT PLANO SYSTEM SORT OF PERMEATES ALL THOSE NORTHERN SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES, UM, OVER TIME.

AND, UM, WE USUALLY, WE OFTEN ASK FOR DELAYS 'CAUSE THEY'RE JUST SO FAST, WE, AS WE CAN'T KEEP UP.

UM, SO, UM, THE, THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK IS A IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT HERE, AND I'D ARGUE IT'S PROBABLY GOOD, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR MY CLIENTS.

YOU GUYS REQUIRE MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT THAN MOST BOARD THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

IT'S PROBABLY THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

UM, DALLAS IS GOOD ABOUT THAT.

UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN GET THE NEIGHBORS TO BE OKAY, YOU KNOW, USUALLY YOU HAVE THAT, MOST CITIES THAT THERE'S NO EXPECTATION WE MEET WITH THE NEIGHBORS.

UM, AND I'M NOT, I KNOW YOU MAY, YOU THINK THAT'S CRAZY, BUT IT'S VERY UNUSUAL WHEN WE HAVE COMMUNITY MEETINGS.

WE'LL GO TO A BOARD IN SOME OTHER PLACE.

THEY SEEM STUNNED THAT WE WOULD EVEN BOTHERED WELL TO, I I HEAR YOU.

AND I'M GONNA GO BACK TO MS. GABO ONE SECOND.

EVERY CASE STANDS ON ITS OWN.

UH, NO CASE SETS A PRECEDENT.

EACH PANEL HEARS THE HEARING BASED ON THE EVIDENCE FROM THE APPLICANT, THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF ANALYSIS, AND THEN THE DISCUSSION FROM THAT PANEL.

IT'S UP TO THAT INDIVIDUAL PANEL, HOW MUCH THEY WEIGH FEEDBACK FROM THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS OR NOT.

AND THAT EBBS AND FLOWS OVER TIME.

SO, BUT I RESPECT YOUR PERSPECTIVE IN COMPARISON.

MS. GAMBIT, DID HE ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? DO YOU HAVE A FOLLOW UP? UM, WELL, JUST A, A COMMENT ON THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIKE A BEDFORD AND A PLANO VERSUS A DALLAS.

I MEAN, DALLAS IS AWFULLY BUILT OUT, WHICH MEANS THERE'S PEOPLE THAT ARE EXISTING AND NEIGHBORS.

AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS TO WEIGH IN WITH WHAT THOSE NEIGHBORS SAY.

'CAUSE THEY OWN THAT PROPERTY.

THEY BOUGHT INTO THAT ZONING.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THAT NEIGHBOR HAD THAT I HAVE A SAY IN WHAT IS HAPPENING NEXT DOOR TO ME.

AND YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE OUT IN PLANO IN BEDFORD AND YOU HAVE MILES AND MILES OF, WELL, THOSE ARE BUILT OUT COMMUNITIES TOO.

WELL, I MEAN, BUT IT'S, BUT YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE LEEWAY.

UM, BUT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU HAVE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.

MY MY SECOND QUESTION WAS, UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU CANNOT GET IN TO SEE PEOPLE TODAY AT THE CITY OF DALLAS TO TALK ABOUT CASES.

UM, BOTH ROBERT AND, UM, STEVE INDICATED THAT THEY HAVE NO TROUBLE REACHING IN AND GETTING INTO .

YOU SET, YOU SET UP APPOINTMENTS.

I GUESS I JUST AM, YOU KNOW, I'M OLD SCHOOL, UH, AND I THINK YOU, THE DOOR SHOULD BE OPEN IF I WANT TO COME IN AND TALK ABOUT A ZONING CASE OR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CASE.

IT, YOU KNOW, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND 'CAUSE CITIZENS DON'T KNOW TO DO IT.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY SHOULD BE AT HOME OR IF THEY ARE, IT'S AN EARNED PRIVILEGE OVER THE FACT THAT THEY CAN HANDLE A VERY LARGE DOCKET.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYBODY OUGHT TO BE IN THE OFFICE WORKING.

[01:30:01]

UM, AND DOESN'T MATTER WHERE THEY ARE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S THE POLICY OF MR. ESPINOZA, THE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND MR. POOL.

YOU CAN CONFIRM OR NOT THAT ALL DEVELOPMENT SERVICE EMPLOYEES ARE AT WORK NOT REMOTELY.

THAT'S GOOD.

I THINK THAT IS THE MR. POOL, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

SO THAT'S, THAT, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE, AT LEAST WITHIN DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.

EACH DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY CHOOSES THEIR SITUATION.

BUT I THINK FOR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FOR THE STAFF THAT SUPPORTS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AM I CORRECT? I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR THAT.

UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UM, WHAT YOU WANT AS A CUSTOMER IS TO COME INTO THE DOORS AND BE MADE TO FEEL LIKE A CUSTOMER.

TO FURTHER THAT, LIKE, UH, OUR DOORS ARE OPEN.

UM, WE HAVE PEOPLE ALL DAY LONG.

THE ONLY DAYS THAT WE MAY STRUGGLE TO ACCOMMODATE SOMEBODY FOR THE BOARD WOULD BE ON A DAY THAT WE HAD HEARING AND ALL STAFF IS HERE.

OH, SURE.

UM, AND WE HAVE OTHER STAFF MEMBERS AVAILABLE WHO, WHO COULD HELP OUT WITH IT, WITH ANYTHING NEEDED.

SO TO FOLLOW UP THAT RABBIT, IS IT THE POLICY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES VIS-A-VIS THE SUPPORT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? DOES IT REQUIRE AN APPOINTMENT TO SEE SOMEONE OR IS IT A PHONE CALL OR IS IT A WALK-IN? TELL ME WHAT THE ROUTINE IS.

SO, SO THAT WE AS BOARD MEMBERS UNDERSTAND THE, THE, THE PROCESS.

SO I THINK WE'LL GET INTO THIS LATER AS WELL THROUGH THE, THE TRAINING FOR INTAKE.

BUT, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT, UH, WE DO HAVE APPOINTMENTS AVAILABLE TO REDUCE WEIGHT.

UM, WE'RE, WE'RE CURRENTLY, WE HAVE A, A ZONING CONSULTATION TEAM THAT, UH, IS BEING BUILT UP.

WE HAVE AN ONLINE APPOINTMENT SYSTEM FOR THAT.

AND BASICALLY YOU MAKE YOUR APPOINTMENT AND PICK YOUR TIME AND YOU, YOU WALK INTO THAT TIME, THERE'S NO WAITING IN LINE.

UM, WE DO GET MANY, MANY, MANY VISITORS TO THREE 20 EAST JEFFERSON AND, AND THERE, THERE ARE WAITS.

UM, AND IN ORDER TO TRY AND HELP FACILITATE THAT, WE, WE DO OFFER APPOINTMENTS FOR, FOR THOSE REASONS.

UM, WE DO WANT TO GIVE THE BEST POSSIBLE SERVICE WE CAN.

AND, AND ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE NEW AVENUES WE'RE LOOKING AT ARE THESE ZONING CONSULTATIONS, WHICH, UH, IF IF PATTERN CORRECTLY, WE'LL START MOVING TO ALL THE OTHER TEAMS WITH MS. GA, MS. GABO, MS. GABO, DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, UH, FOLLOW UP ON YOURS? WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE FROM, I'VE GOT MS. LAMB AND THEN MR. SACHIN, MS. LAMB.

UM, I THANK YOU FOR COMING IN AND, AND LENDING SOME INSIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF, OF THE TABLE HERE.

UM, IN REGARDS TO THE PROCESS HERE AND, AND GIVING INSIGHT IN TERMS OF WHAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES FUNCTION WELL, UM, YOU KNOW, I I I THINK THAT THE, THE BOARD HAS SEEN A LOT OF CHANGES IN THE LAST YEAR, ESPECIALLY MOVING OVER TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.

THERE'S CERTAINLY A RAMPING UP PERIOD.

UM, BUT I'VE NOTICED JUST SITTING ON THIS PANEL SINCE OR ON THIS BOARD SINCE 2019, THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN MUCH MORE INFORMED COMING IN.

THEY HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE OF HOW TO ARTICULATE THE CASE AND WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO, TO GET THERE.

AND I PRAISE THE STAFF FOR, FOR DOING SO.

I KNOW THAT CITY OF DALLAS DOES HAVE SOME CHALLENGES THAT DOES, THAT DOES NOT RESEMBLE SOMETHING YOU'D SEE IN PLAN ON FRISCO.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS ATTRIBUTED TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS, AND A LOT OF NUANCES THAT YOU DON'T SEE IN A, IN FAIRLY NEWER DEVELOPED MUNICIPALITY LIKE FRISCO OR PLANO.

UM, BUT I DO APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT.

UM, WHAT I, I WILL SPEAK FOR MYSELF THAT I, I WILL LOOK INTO KIND OF HOW THOSE FUNCTION, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THE CITY STAFF AND, UM, THIS BOARD, UM, AS A WHOLE HAS BENEFITED OVER, UM, SEVERAL YEARS WITH, WITH CHAIRMAN NEWMAN COMING IN AND NOW HAVING THIS EDUCATIONAL SEMINAR ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TO INFORM NEW BOARD MEMBERS, UM, ALTERNATES AND STAFF AND, AND SEEK PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND, UM, GO OVER KIND OF OUR, OUR, UH, NUANCES TO OUR ROLE.

SO ONCE AGAIN, I THANK YOU FOR COMING IN, UM, AND APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.

WELL, I, I THINK Y'ALL ARE ONE OF THE HIGHEST PERFORMING GROUPS.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'D LIKE Y'ALL TO, IF Y'ALL CUT IT TO 60 DAYS, I'D BE THRILLED.

UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, AND AS WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, AND I THINK HOMEOWNERS, THEY DON'T, I MEAN, THEY DON'T KNOW.

IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE GONNA GO DO A BOARD CASE SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT 60 DAYS IS A REASONABLE EXPECTATION TO GET A DECISION.

UM, HOPEFULLY THEY'LL THINK IT'S AN AFFIRMATIVE ONE THAT MOST PEOPLE THAT SHOW UP WANNA WIN.

WELL, INTERESTING ENOUGH, IN OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, IT SAYS THAT A DIRECTOR WILL SCHEDULE A CASE TO THE FOR HEARING WITHIN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME.

AND TWO YEARS AGO, I ASKED THAT VERY QUESTION TO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, MAGIC RE I SAID, IMAGINE WHAT'S REASONABLE.

AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID, WHAT'S REASONABLE? AND THAT'S BEEN A KIND OF A POT POTATO OF WHAT IS REASONABLE.

WELL, I THINK YOU'LL HEAR LATER TODAY, AND I THINK YOU'VE HEARD, YOU'LL HEAR FROM OUR OFFICERS, IS THAT OUR GOAL, THIS NEXT CYCLE IS 60 DAYS NOW.

THAT'S THE HOPE.

AND WE'RE GONNA WORK TOGETHER AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT HOW POTENTIALLY WE'RE GONNA GET THERE.

BUT, UM, SO I DON'T WANNA FILIBUSTER WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE, MR. SASHING, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SET OF SPEAKERS.

I'LL JUST QUICKLY STATE, UH, AND I'M SURE MR. POOLE AND CHAIR CHAIRMAN NEWMAN, WILL, WILL, WILL AGREE.

[01:35:01]

I, I WOULD SAY THAT MR. POOLE WOULD WELCOME ANY FEEDBACK TO THE CONTRARY TO THAT PARTICULAR, UM, UM, ITEM.

AND I'M SURE THAT THERE WILL BE A CORRECTIVE ACTION PUT IN PLACE SO THAT FEEDBACK IS VALUABLE TO, TO MR. POOLE, TO THE ORGANIZATION AS WELL AS TO THE BOARD AND THE CITY, UH, AT LARGE.

SO PLEASE, YOU KNOW, UH, QUANTIFIABLE, UM, ITEMS THAT HAPPEN, RAISE THEM SO THAT THEY CAN BE CORRECTED.

CERTAINLY.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. CORO? I SEE NONE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS ARE APPRECIATED.

UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? OKAY, PLEASE COME DOWN.

DO WE NEED TO GET HIM A BLUE SHEET, MS. WILLIAMS? I THINK SO.

SO IF, IF YOU WOULD PASS THE BLUE SHEET OVER TO HIM SO HE CAN ONE, ONE SECOND.

SO SHE'S GONNA PASS THE SHEET OVER TO PASS IT AROUND.

THAT'D BE GREAT IF YOU, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MR. ELIASON.

THEY'RE EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

IF YOU'D GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND THEN YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO PRESENT TO THE BOARD, PLEASE.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

UM, I WON'T BE TAKING THE FIVE MINUTES.

UH, MY NAME IS JONATHAN VINCENT, 2323 ROSS AVENUE.

UH, AND, UH, SOME OF YOU MAY RECOGNIZE ME, SOME OF YOU MAY NOT, BUT I'VE BEEN DOING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CASES PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE TIME I'VE BEEN DOING LAND USE LAW WORK, WHICH IS SINCE THE LATE NINETIES.

SO HAVE A, A TON OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

UM, KNOW THE PROCESS WELL, AND I'M, UM, I'M HERE TODAY.

I THINK REALLY JUST TO KIND OF INFORMALLY OFFER SOME COMMENTS ON MY OBSERVATION.

AND I WANNA START OUT BY SAYING THAT, UM, I THINK IN LIFE FOR MOST OF US, WE, UH, GET SOME CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM FROM TIME TO TIME.

WE PROBABLY DON'T GET ENOUGH POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT IN WHATEVER ENDEAVORS WE'RE INVOLVED IN.

SO I'M HERE TODAY TO DO THAT.

UM, YOU KNOW, WORKING FOR 25 PLUS YEARS WITH BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT STAFF AS IT'S EVOLVED, YOU KNOW, STEVE LONG, AND THEN, UM, CURRENT STAFF, NICK DUNN, EVERYBODY ELSE, MR. POOLE, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN, UM, THAT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL.

UM, I THINK IT'S, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I REALLY LIKE ABOUT THE SYSTEM, UH, FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, AND I THINK MR. COTHAM ALLUDED TO IT, IS THAT FROM A TIMING STANDPOINT, IT IS VERY METHODICAL AND VERY SYSTEMATIC.

UM, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MANAGE EXPECTATIONS FOR YOUR CLIENT.

UM, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR TIMELINE IS, IF THEY HAVE A PROPERTY UNDER CONTRACT OR AN INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNER, YOU KNOW, WHO'S GOT A PROBLEM THAT THEY CAN'T WORK THROUGH.

SO THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE BOARD TO TRY TO SOLVE THAT.

UM, SO I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THE STAFF DOES A GREAT JOB OF KEEPING, UM, ADHERING TO THAT TIMELINE.

AND THAT'S, UM, EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

YOU KNOW, I DO A LOT OF ZONING WORK TOO, AND, AND I REALIZE IT'S A STAFFING ISSUE.

IT'S ALWAYS A STAFFING ISSUE.

UM, THE ZONING PROCESS FROM A TIMING STANDPOINT IS, I'LL JUST SAY LESS PREDICTABLE AND LENGTHIER.

UM, SO IT'S, IT'S REFRESHING TO DO BOARD CASES AND HAVE ACTUAL FIRM DATES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW IT'S GONNA GET NOTICED FOR A DATE CERTAIN, UM, SO THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.

THE ONLY COMMENT I WOULD OFFER, AND THIS IS, THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM AT ALL, UM, HAVE NOTHING BUT GOOD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT WORKING WITH THE STAFF AND WITH YOU AS A BOARD ON THIS.

UM, I KNOW THERE'S, UM, I THINK THERE'S STILL A CASE LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT CAN BE FILED PER MONTH.

UM, AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THAT'S IN PLACE FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE IN TOO MANY CASES AND YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF TO PROPERLY REVIEW AND PROCESS THOSE CASES, THAT'S NOT GONNA SERVE ANYBODY.

WELL TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I, AND I GUESS THIS IS PROBABLY DIRECTED MAYBE MORE TO THE POLICY MAKERS, UM, IF WE COULD RAISE STAFFING LEVELS, UM, IN THE CURRENT PLANNING OFFICE, NOT JUST FOR THE BOARD, BUT FOR, UH, ZONING PROCESS AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE COULD, MAYBE YOU COULD INCREASE THE CAPACITY FOR CASES.

YOU KNOW, I, I OCCASIONALLY RUN A CA ACROSS AN INSTANCE WHERE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY MAYBE HAS A PROPERTY UNDER CONTRACT, THEY WANT TO KNOW THAT THEY CAN GET THEIR ENTITLEMENTS IN PLACE BEFORE THEY HAVE TO CLOSE.

AND, UM, FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY'RE BUMPING UP AGAINST THE DEADLINE.

UM, TRYING TO GET MORE CASES IN THE PIPELINE WOULD BE HELPFUL IN THAT REGARD.

BUT AGAIN, THAT IS IN NO WAY A CRITICISM.

UM, I TOTALLY GET THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PROPER STAFFING LEVELS TO, TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT CAPACITY.

SO THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY COMMENT.

UM, HOPEFULLY I HAVEN'T TAKEN UP MUCH OF MY FIVE MINUTES OR MOST OF IT.

AGAIN, THE, THE BOARD STAFF IS, AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN GREAT TO WORK WITH.

UH, MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE BOARD HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL AND ALL OF YOUR PREDECESSORS TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.

YOU'RE VERY

[01:40:01]

ATTENTIVE.

UM, AND IT'S, I ACTUALLY LIKE DOING BOARD CASES IN A WAY BETTER THAN ZONING CASES BECAUSE OF ALL THOSE FACTORS.

SO I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS, MR. REEVES.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. REEVES? MR. VINCENT? I'M SORRY, MR. VINCENT.

MR. AGNES, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? AND THEN MS. GABO, UH, ONLY I THOUGHT, UH, WILLIAM, THE BOARD WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE ANY CASE LIMITS, PERIOD.

I AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK IT'S PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THE PROPERTY OWNER TAXPAYER AND I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN FAVOR OF ANY LIMITATION, AND I'VE SAID THAT TO MR. ESPINOSA AND MR. POOLE.

THEY KNOW THAT WELL, AND, UM, AND THAT CONTINUES TO BE A, A DISCUSSION POINT TO MAKE SURE THAT STAFFING IS SUFFICIENT TO BE ABLE TO BE RESPONSIVE.

AND, AND ESPECIALLY AS WE ROLL INTO THIS NEXT FISCAL YEAR, CYCLE OF 60 DAYS, WE, I MEAN WE'RE, I'M, WE'RE LASER FOCUSED ON THAT.

SO THAT COMMENT IS WELL TAKEN.

MS. GABO, IT, COULD I JUST RESPOND? SURE, GO AHEAD.

I JUST, I, I JUST WANNA REEMPHASIZE TO MAKE IT A HUNDRED PERCENT CRYSTAL CLEAR.

THAT IS NOT A CRITICISM OF THE STAFF.

IT'S NOT TAKEN THAT WAY.

THAT'S, THAT'S A MANAGERIAL DECISION.

THAT, THAT THE OFFICERS HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR TO THE STAFF ABOUT, AND I POINT TO MR. POOLE AND MR. ESPINOZA, THAT IS NOT, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SO WE GET THAT TOTALLY.

MS. GABO.

WELL, TO, TO THAT END, UM, MR. COHOR MENTIONED IT AND NOW YOU'VE MENTIONED IT, AND I MEAN, I CAN SEE THAT WE, WE'VE CANCELED, UM, PANELS OVER THE LAST YEAR MANY TIMES 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CASES.

SO I'VE HEARD BOTH YOU AND MR. CATHERINE STATE THAT THERE ARE CASES OUT THERE THAT WE ARE NOT HEARING.

BUT WHEN I ASKED THE QUESTION, MR. CATHERINE INDICATED THAT, WELL, NO, HE, HE'S SEEN A DECREASE IN DALLAS CASES.

SO ARE THERE CASES THAT ARE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT BEING HEARD BECAUSE THERE IS A LIMIT? I, I'M, I'M CONFUSED.

I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE, I FEEL LIKE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CASES, SO I'M CONFUSED AS TO BOTH OF Y'ALL'S COMMENTS.

YOU, TO BE HONEST, I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED THAT LATELY.

UM, IT, WE'RE AT A POINT NOW WHERE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN THE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE, JUST ECONOMICS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE ARE FEWER CASES THAT ARE SHOWING UP.

UM, IT, ALL OF OUR EXPERIENCE AS CONSULTANTS VARIES A LOT DEPENDING ON OUR CLIENTS AND THE SITUATION.

UM, SO I HAVEN'T RUN INTO THAT LATELY.

UM, I HAVE IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, A FEW YEARS AGO.

AND, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, UH, THERE'S A BALANCE THERE BECAUSE IF TOO MANY CASES GET TAKEN IN AND THEY ALL END UP ON DOCKETS AT THE SAME TIME, SOME OF THESE CASES, AS Y'ALL ARE WELL AWARE, CAN BE VERY COMPLEX AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED STAFF TIME DEVOTED TO 'EM.

SO I, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANNA OVERLOAD THE STAFF AND THEN IT'S NOT DIRECTED AT THAT AT ALL.

THANK YOU, MS. GAMBLE.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. VINCENT FROM THE BOARD? OKAY.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK AND YOUR SERVICE, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU ON BEHALF OF YOUR, OF YOUR CLIENT.

I'M TRYING TO SAY THE SAME, THANK YOU TO EACH ONE OF YOU TO BE FAIR AND CONSISTENT.

I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.

UH, MS. WILLIAMS, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS HERE IN PERSON? I DON'T THINK SO, CORRECT.

OR NO, JUST ONE NOT IN PERSON ONLINE.

MR. SANTOS.

MARTINEZ.

LET'S, ARE YOU ONLINE? LET'S PROCEED WITH OF COURSE.

AT THAT VERY MOMENT.

ROB BALDWIN WALKS IN, BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

SO LET'S GO AHEAD WITH MR. MARTINEZ.

UH, MR. SANTOS.

SANTO MARTINEZ.

MR. MARTINEZ, ARE YOU ONLINE? YES.

UM, YOU NEED TO PROVIDE VIDEO, PLEASE? THERE HE IS.

HOW ARE YOU? NO, NO.

NEED TO BE SWORN IN FOR, FOR THIS.

UH, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO ADDRESS THE BOARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.

UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD AND STAFF, UH, SANTOS MARTINEZ, 2 4 8 9 CAMINO PLATA LOOP, NORTHEAST RIO RANCHO, NEW MEXICO, 8 7 1 4 4, WHERE IT'S A GLORIOUS 38 DEGREES.

UM, A BACKGROUND ABOUT MYSELF, I, I USED TO , CAN WE TURN THE VOLUME UP SLIGHTLY OR GO A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE? I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE VOLUME IS OR SHOULD OR NOT, WHATEVER.

CAN YOU HEAR ME, MR. CHAIRMAN? UH, JUST BARELY, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL LISTEN INTENTLY.

UH, FOR, FOR THESE PANELS TO MAKE SURE WE GET FIVE MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE, UM, A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME.

UH, BACKGROUND ABOUT MYSELF.

I USED TO BE THE CHIEF PLANNER FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS, RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, SUBDIVISION CODE AMENDMENTS AND PROCESSING ZONING APPLICATIONS.

UM, I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT THE BOARD IS DOING WELL.

UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I COMMEND YOU ON YOUR SERVICES CHAIR TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY PANEL IS SERVED BY A FULL PANEL.

UH, I KNOW, UH, OVER THE YEARS, THAT WAS A STRUGGLE TO MAKE SURE ALL VACANCIES WERE FILLED, AND IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S GREAT TO HEAR THAT THAT'S A TOP PRIORITY,

[01:45:01]

I ALSO LIKE TO, UH, HIGHLIGHT HOW YOUR CALENDAR HAS CHANGED OVER TIME.

WHEN, WHEN I WAS HERE 20 YEARS AGO, UH, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WOULD TAKE THE ENTIRE MONTH OF JULY OFF.

AND SO IF YOU SUBMITTED AZO, UH, APPLICATION IN MAY, OR YOU DIDN'T GET HEARD UNTIL THE END OF THE SUMMER, UH, THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A PANEL THAT'S ACTUALLY STANDING FOR THE MONTH OF JULY, I THINK IS EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL FOR THE CITIZENS OF DALLAS AND PROPERTY OWNERS, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE MOVING TIMELY.

UM, SOME OF THE SPEAKERS BEFORE YOU HAVE MENTIONED THIS, AND I I JUST LIKE TO PROVIDE SOME INSIGHT AS WELL.

UM, THERE IS AN, THERE IS AN INTAKE CAP ON YOUR APPLICATIONS OF 12 CASES PER CYCLE.

UM, THAT NUMBER IS ARBITRARY.

I REMEMBER WHEN IT WAS IN, IN, UH, INSTITUTED, UH, WHEN I WAS CHAIRING, UH, CHIEF PLANNER WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THERE WAS NO CAP.

AND WE HAD STEVE LONG AS OUR SENIOR PLANNER, UH, STEVE LONG MANAGED CASES, I MANAGED CASES, WE HAD TWO PEOPLE, OR ONE AND A HALF.

UM, AND, AND WE, WE ACCEPTED ALL THE CASES THAT WERE PROVIDED BY THE DEADLINE.

UM, MORE PERSPECTIVE AS THE CITY OF DALLAS HAD AMORTIZED EVERY MOTEL IN THE CITY THAT HAD UNDER 60 ROOMS, UH, AND REQUIRED AN SUP.

AND WHEN IT CHANGED THE CODE IN 1988.

SO THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARD OVER 30 CASES ON EVERY PANEL EVERY MONTH IN ADDITION TO FENCE HEIGHTS, CARPORTS, FRONT YARD SETBACKS WITH THE, UH, AMORTIZATION CYCLES FOR THESE MOTELS.

AND YOU HAD IT WITH TWO STAFF MEMBERS.

IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE.

I, I THINK THAT, UH, LIMITING TO 12 CASES PER MONTH HAS, HAS JUST BEEN AN ARTIFICIAL NUMBER.

AND IF THERE'S A MOVE TO REMOVE THE CAP, I WOULD ENCOURAGE IT, UH, AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

UH, I DO AGREE THAT HAVING AN, AN APPOINTMENT TO GO OVER CASES WITH STAFF IS HELPFUL.

HOWEVER, MOST PEOPLE IN, IN THE PUBLIC, THIS IS ALL A NEW PROCESS FOR THEM AND SHOULD NOT BE DISCOURAGED TO SAY, COME BACK TOMORROW WHEN YOU GET AN APPOINTMENT.

I, UM, I DO THINK THE, THE TRENDS TO MOVE THIS CASE IS CASELOADS TO 60 DAYS SHOULD BE HIGHLY ENCOURAGED IN WHATEVER PROCESSES ARE NEEDED TO TAKE PLACE, SHOULD TAKE PLACE.

UM, I KNOW THAT IN SOME INSTANCES THE BOARD CASES ARE DIFFERENT FROM ZONING CASES.

, YOU'VE GOT DIFFERENT TIMELINE FOR WHEN THINGS NEED TO BE IN THE PAPER.

YOU'VE GOT DIFFERENT TIMELINES FOR WHEN THINGS NEED TO BE IN THE DOCKET THAT AREN'T THE SAME AS ZONING APPLICATIONS, BUT I, I KNOW THAT YOU'VE GOT STAFF THAT UNDERSTANDS THOSE DEADLINES AND CAN WORK TO GET THOSE THROUGH.

I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND, UH, PROVIDING US FEEDBACK AND, AND OPINIONS STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

THANK YOU MARS, MR. MARTINEZ, FOR SPEAKING TO US.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD FOR MR. MARTINEZ'S COMMENTS? I, I, I'LL SPEAK FOR A SECOND.

WE ARE PRESSING TO ACHIEVE 60 DAYS OR LESS.

WE, WE ARE UNANIMOUS IN SAYING THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO CAP AS, WE DON'T WANNA PROHIBIT A PROPERTY OWNER TAXPAYER'S ABILITY TO ACCESS THE SYSTEM AND GET A DECISION, A FAIR DECISION IN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME.

SO, UH, WE, WE ARE PRESSING ON BOTH OF THOSE FRONTS, SO THANK YOU.

YES, I HAVE A HAND UP, MR. SINGTON.

AND THEN MS. LAMB.

UM, I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE IF WE CAN GET A POINT OF, SO THIS SAME COMMENT HAS BEEN MADE, UH, MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE TIMES.

I KNOW THAT THERE MAY BE WRITTEN IN THE POLICY THAT THERE'S A CAP, BUT ARE ANY CASES BEING REJECTED OR, OR, OR HAS AN APPLICANT BEEN PUSHED OVER INTO ANOTHER MONTH BECAUSE THEIR CASE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO BE HEARD, UM, BECAUSE OF THE CAP? IS THIS, IS THIS AN ISSUE THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY SEEING, OR IS THIS AN, UH, ITEM OF LIKE, MAYBE SOME KIND OF RECENCY BIAS THAT THAT'S, THAT'S GOING ON MENTALLY THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST? I, I'D LIKE TO REALLY HASH IT OUT THAT THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR MR. POOLE.

SO TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY RECENT CASES WHERE THAT'S HAPPENED.

I'LL DEFER TO, UH, MS. BARKUM TO CONFIRM.

UM, I KNOW IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE, BUT IN, IN TERMS OF, OF CURRENTLY, I, I DON'T BELIEVE IT HAS, BUT THAT'S, AGAIN, I'LL, I'LL REFER TO MS. BARUM.

NEVER RE UH, REJECTED ANYBODY FOR SUBMISSION.

UM, SINCE I'VE BEEN WITH THE BOARD FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

WE'VE NEVER REACHED THAT CAP.

WE'VE ACT WE'VE HAD 14 CASES OR THERE HAVE BEEN SOME HOLDOVERS, UM, THAT HAVE MADE IT ABOVE THE 14 CASES, BUT WE HAVE

[01:50:01]

SO, UH, AND MS. BARKUM MENTIONED 14 PREVIOUSLY, THE STAFF NUMBER WAS 14 AND SOMEHOW MORPHED TO 12.

AND IT'S KIND OF THIS UNWRITTEN, UNWRITTEN POLICY PROCESS THAT I'M GLAD IS BEING ELEVATED AS FAR AS MAKING SURE THAT, THAT, THAT IS OR IS NOT IN PLACE.

SO, UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK, MS. LAMB.

UM, SO WE'VE HAD SEVERAL SPEAKERS, AND MAYBE STAFF CAN SPEAK TO THIS, UM, THAT HAVE REQUESTED THAT CASES A 60 DAY KINDA MORATORIUM ON THESE CASES.

JUST TO UNDERSTAND THIS, IS THIS FROM, IS THIS A REQUEST COMING FROM THE POINT OF SUBMITTING, UM, AN APPLICATION REQUEST TO BEING IN FRONT OF A PANEL AND, AND TRYING THEIR CASE? OR WHAT IS THIS? WHAT IS THE 60 DAYS THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY'RE ASKING? AND I, I MEAN, MAYBE ONE OF THE SPEAKERS CAN SPEAK TO THAT.

AND THEN WHERE ALSO IN THAT CAPACITY DO, DOES THE, UM, THE NOTIFICATION, HOW MUCH TIME THE PUBLIC HAS TO BE NOTIFIED FALL WITHIN THAT.

MR. MARTINEZ, DID YOU HAVE A RESPONSE SINCE THESE ARE QUESTIONS COMING TO YOUR COMMENTS? THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

UH, I WOULD LIKE THAT BY THE TIME THE DEADLINE THAT I'VE SUBMITTED MY APPLICATION WITHIN 60 DAYS OF THAT DEADLINE, WE GET TO A HEARING AND THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN YOUR CALENDAR, BUT I BELIEVE ALL OF THOSE CAN BE FINE TUNED BY STAFF.

I THINK WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN AWARE OF IT THAT, UH, THE TIMELINE FOR DOCKET IS DIFFERENT, THE TIMELINE FOR NOTIFICATION IS DIFFERENT.

SO WE SCHEDULE STAFF REVIEW PRIOR TO THAT TO GET REPORTS OUT.

UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE, I'M, I'M LOOKING AT YOUR WEBSITE RIGHT NOW, AND IT SAYS YOU'VE GOT NINE APPLICATIONS OPEN FOR THE NEXT HEARING IN JANUARY.

THIS IS A VERY BAD CARRYOVER AND YOU MAY NOT HAVE A NEED FOR IT.

NOW.

THEN I THINK IT RAISES THE QUESTION, WHY DO WE EVEN KEEP THE PRACTICE? YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S AN, OR THERE'S AN ORGANIZATIONAL TRANSITION AT TIMES WHEN YOU'VE GOT NEW MANAGEMENT AND NEW STAFF AND NEW DIRECTIONS WHERE YOU CAN QUESTION, WHY DO WE CARRY THESE POLICIES THAT WERE INSTITUTED 12 YEARS AGO? I THINK YOU'VE GOT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE BRINGING THIS TO YOUR ATTENTION BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE, WE'VE EVER HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE THIS CONCERN WHERE WE, WE HAVE HAD CASES THAT HAVE BEEN HELD BECAUSE WE WERE NUMBER 13 OR WE WERE NUMBER 14, NOT KNOWING IN THE, IN THE LOBBY WHERE WE WERE SITTING, THERE WAS 11, 12, 13, AND I WAS 14.

SO IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S A CONVERSATION ON HOW WE CAN IMPROVE PRACTICES, I THINK THIS SHOULD ALSO BE WHY DO WE QUESTION SOME OF THESE POLICIES? AND IF THERE, IF YOU'RE NOT SEEING A BACKLOG ON, ON THESE CASES, WHY, WHY ARE WE EVEN HAVING THIS CAPPED? BUT IF I COULD GET A CASE HEARD WITHIN 60 DAYS OF A DEADLINE, THAT WOULD BE PHENOMENAL.

MS. LAMB, MR. MARTINEZ, UM, THANK YOU FOR, FOR SPEAKING TOWARDS THAT.

ON AVERAGE, HOW LONG FROM THE PERIOD THAT YOU SUBMIT AN APPLICATION TO, UM, GOING IN FRONT OF A BOARD, IS, IS YOUR TYPICAL APPLICATION AT THIS POINT, OR HAS IT BEEN HISTORICALLY OVER THE LAST SAY, TWO YEARS? MY, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN IT'S BEEN THREE MONTHS.

AND IF, IF YOU CAN SHORTEN IT DOWN TO 60 DAYS, THAT'S, THAT IS A BIG PLUS.

AND, UM, IT'S BEEN 90 DAYS SINCE WHEN I WAS A STAFF MEMBER.

THAT WAS JUST, THAT WAS JUST THE ROUTINE.

UH, I WOULD HIGHLIGHT THAT I THINK YOU'VE GOT MORE STAFF NOW THAN WE'VE EVER HAD, UH, FUNCTIONING WITH THE BOARD.

UM, IF YOU ALSO COUNT YOUR CHIEF PLANNER ALSO TAKING IN CASES LIKE, WHICH WAS THE PRACTICE WHEN I WAS THERE, UH, THAT THERE'S, THERE'S MORE CAPACITY TO WORK A DOCKET AND IF THERE'S A, A, A METHOD TO SHAVE OFF 30 DAYS.

I, I THINK THE CITY OF DALLAS USED TO BE A PLACE WHERE THERE WAS A LOT OF INNOVATIVE IDEAS, A LOT OF INNOVATIVE PRACTICES TO BE DIFFERENT TO BE, UH, UH, A MARKET LEADER.

I THINK IF THERE'S A WAY TO SHAVE OFF TIME AND GET TO A HEARING QUICKER AND STILL MEET YOUR OBLIGATIONS FOR NOTICES, IT SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE ATTEMPTED.

YOU WANT TO SAY THAT WE'RE WORKING ON THAT TO ACHIEVE BOTH OF THOSE THINGS? HOW'S THAT FOR ESCAPE? THAT, THAT, THAT'S A GREAT ANSWER.

I APPRECIATE YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. MARTINEZ? UH, MR. MR. AGNIS? OH, MR. MR. FINNEY, THEN MR. AGNIS, MR. FINNEY, UM, FOR THE CITY STAFF, WHOEVER IS QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THIS.

SO GIVEN THE NEW, UH, 60 DAY POLICY, UM, IF WE RECEIVE MORE THAN 15 OR MORE THAN 14 APPLICATIONS BEFORE THE NEXT DEADLINE, UM, WILL ALL OF THEM BE HEARD WITHIN 60 DAYS OR WILL ONE OF THEM BE PUSHED? UH, WELL, I, I LIKE HOW, UM, AFFIRMATIVE THAT QUESTION IS.

MR. POOLE, DID YOU WANNA RESPOND OR DID

[01:55:01]

UM, WE ARE, WE ARE WORKING ON THAT.

AND MR. FINNEY, UM, IT'S NOT 60 DAYS IS NOT THE, LET'S SAY IT THIS WAY.

WE, AS A BOARD ADJUSTMENT ARE APPOINTED BY THE COUNCIL, THE RULES OF PROCEDURE AND THE CODE GIVE THE MANAGER, THE CITY MANAGER, THE AUTHORITY AND THE RESPONSIBILITY TO EXECUTE THE PROCESS THAT BRINGS THAT APPLICATION TO THE BOARD.

SO OUR ROLE IS INFLUENCE AND OBJECTIVES AND GOALS OUT OF FAIRNESS TO THE TAXPAYER, BUT IN THE END, IT'S THE MANAGER, MR. ESPINOZA, AS THE DIRECTOR WHO'S CALLED OUT IN OUR RULES AND IN THE CODE, WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO, TO EXECUTE WHAT IS REASONABLE.

AM I CORRECT MR. SAP? THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

SO WHAT YOU'RE HEARING HERE IS FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC AND INFLUENCE AND PERSUASION AS MR. AGNES AND MS. GAMBLE AND I HAVE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS WITH THE STAFF TO SAY, WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET TO A BETTER PLACE? AND, BUT THAT REALLY COMES BACK TO, THROUGH MR. POOL AND MR. ESPINOZA TO EXECUTE.

AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE HEARING IS THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE HEADED.

HOW'S THAT FOR A SAFE A, A, A SAVE.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

YEAH, BUT IT'S ALL ON THE RECORD THAT THAT'S WHAT WE WANT.

YOU CAN HEAR THAT FROM THOSE THAT ARE SPEAKING, UH, AND THE HOPE IS WE GET THERE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

AND MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, UM, THE REASON I ASK THIS QUESTION IS THAT IF WE BEGIN TO ADVERTISE TO THE PUBLIC THAT WE GUARANTEE 60 DAYS, UH, THEN, AND AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE THIS POLICY THAT LIMITS THE NUMBER OF CASES, IT SEEMS THAT WE ARE SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR DISAPPOINTING, UH, SOME PEOPLE.

SO, UM, JUST, I, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT CONUNDRUM THAT YOU'VE JUST ILLUSTRATED.

AND I PROMISE YOU, MR. AGNES, MS. GABO AND I WILL BE PRESSING MR. POOL AND MR. ESPINOZA TO AVOID THAT PROBLEM BECAUSE WE WANT THE FORMER, NOT THE LATTER.

WE WANT THE, THE PUBLIC TO BE THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE TAXPAYER, TO BE EMPOWERED TO USE, AS I'VE SAID TO MR. POOLE, A TEXAS LEGISLATURE'S RIGHT, TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, OR A ZONING PERSON OR THE PERMIT DEPARTMENT THAT IS THEIR TEXAS LEGISLATURE'S, RIGHT? THAT YOU CAN HAVE, YOU CAN AVAIL YOURSELF TO A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, WHETHER IT'S IN THE CITY OF DALLAS OR BEDFORD OR WHEREVER OTHER CITY THAT IS A RIGHT WITHIN THE STATE OF TEXAS.

AND SO I THINK WE'RE HEADED THERE.

UM, WE WILL KEEP YOU IN THE LOOP ON THAT.

UM, UH, BUT THAT, THAT IS A FUNCTION OF THE MANAGER THROUGH THE DIRECTOR, THROUGH THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADMINISTRATOR.

SO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON HIM.

THANK YOU, MR. FINNEY.

MR. AGNIS, VERY QUICKLY, UM, I THINK JUST TO, TO BE CLEAR, I, I THINK I'M HEARING THE 60 DAYS STARTS FROM THE SUBMISSION OF THE APPLICATION, WHICH PROBABLY MEANS WHEN THE CHECK GOES IN, IF I HAD TO GUESS.

BUT SECONDLY, YOU, UH, I, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE, THE STAFF HAVING DONE SOMETHING WE ASKED FOR, UH, LAST YEAR, UH, UH, THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT LATER.

THAT IS HAVING OUR DOCKETS POSTED SEVEN DAYS AHEAD FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST US, BUT FOR APPLICANTS AND FOR, FOR PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC TO SEE.

THAT'S A, THAT'S A, THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT THING AS WE, AS WE SERVE OUR, OUR PEOPLE.

THIRD, UH, I THINK WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT A NEW TEXAS LAW THAT, THAT SPECIFIES 60 DAYS.

AND I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF IT, BUT I KNOW THAT'S IN OUR, OUR AGENDA LATER.

SO THAT'S, THANK YOU, MR. MARTINEZ.

IT IS, UH, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU FOR ME.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE SPEAKER MR. MARTINEZ SEEING? NO.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING WITH US THIS MORNING.

UM, MR. CHAIRMAN? OF COURSE.

WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TODAY? OKAY.

MS. WILLIAMS, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER REGISTERED SPEAKERS? YOU HAD TWO MORE IN THE LIST.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE STILL WITH US OR ONE MORE IN THE LIST.

MR. MISTA.

RODNEY MISTA.

LET ME CHECK.

UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS? IT'S NOT IN, ARE THERE ANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS IN THE CHAMBER THAT

[02:00:01]

ALRIGHT, SO, NO, HE DOESN'T WANNA SPEAK, HE SAID NO.

UM, ALRIGHT, SO THAT CONCLUDES OUR PUBLIC TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME.

WE'RE GONNA TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK, UH, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO OUR NEXT PRESENTATION AND THAT THE NEXT PRESENTATION IS, UM, ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

SO IT IS 11:00 AM ON THE 31ST OF OCTOBER.

WE WILL RECESS FOR FIVE MINUTES AND RECONVENE AT 11:05 AM THANK YOU.

HEY, BRIAN, I SO YOUR QUESTIONS? NO, HEY.

GONNA GET SOME COFFEE THEN WHEN WE'RE GONNA START HERE IN A SECOND.

'CAUSE OF THE POLICY STATE, RIGHT? YEAH.

OH, IT IS.

YOU KNOW, WORKING FOR THE GOVERNOR, YOU KNOW, I CAN ALWAYS, OH, I, IT'S ALSO ALSO TO

[02:05:14]

ALL TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE WATCHING, OKAY.

DO WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY BACK ON? ALRIGHT, IT IS 11:07 AM ON THE 31ST OF OCTOBER.

THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UH, IS HEREBY CALLED BACK TO ORDER FROM RECESS.

THE NEXT SECTION OF OUR WORK TODAY IS BOARD TRAINING.

WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST FIRST.

UM, I'M GLAD TO HAVE WITH US TODAY, UH, BARON ELIASSON, WHO'S THE CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER.

UM, I'M GONNA GIVE KUDOS FIRST TO OUR VICE CHAIRMAN ROBERT AGNES, MONTHS AGO.

HE DOESN'T KNOW, I'M GONNA SAY THIS.

MONTHS AGO, HE CAME TO ME AND SAID, YOU KNOW, DAVID, REALLY BE HELPFUL IF THE BOARD HAD SOME FACE TIME WITH THE IG, UM, UH, FOR THE CITY, GIVEN THAT NEW FOCUS AREA WITHIN THE CITY, UH, IN ORDER TO ELEVATE AND, UH, COMMUNICATE THE ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST ISSUES.

AND SO, UH, WE, HE AND I REACHED OUT TO MR. ELIASSON ABOUT A MONTH AGO, A MONTH AND A HALF AGO, AND WE WENT AND VISITED WITH HIM AND HE PREPARED, UH, POWERPOINT, MR. AGNES ON BEHALF OF MYSELF, UM, MET WITH HIM AS A FOLLOW UP AND NARROWED FURTHER THE, UH, POWERPOINT PRESENTATION.

UM, AND SO I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ROBERT'S INVOLVEMENT IN SPURRING THIS IDEA AND KIND OF SHEPHERDING THIS.

SO, WITH THAT IN MIND, MR. ELIASON, TAKE IT FROM HERE.

ALRIGHT, WELL, GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY.

AND I WANT TO, UH, SAY THANK YOU AS WELL TO BOTH OF YOU FOR GETTING THIS LINED UP.

UH, FOR THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC.

I AM BAR ELIASON.

I'M CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER.

THAT MEANS THAT I SIT IN THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL, AND MY JOB IS TO COMMUNICATE AND TO MARKET REALLY THE VALUE OF ETHICS IN THE CITY AND TO HELP WRITE ADVISORY OPINIONS, WHICH, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE GREAT THINGS AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, I NEED YOU TO BE A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE.

OKAY? I'M HEARING YOU, BUT IT'S A LITTLE ECHO.

SO AGAIN, UH, I SIT IN THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE, MY SUPERVISOR AND OUR INSPECTOR GENERAL BART BEAVERS IS OVER THERE.

ONE OF THE REASONS HE'S HERE IS, AS YOU GET A CHANCE TO ASK QUESTIONS THIS MORNING, IF YOUR QUESTIONS ARE PARTICULARLY ABOUT THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF THE CODE OF ETHICS, UH, THAT'S WHAT HE'LL BE ABLE TO, TO ANSWER.

SO, SO HOLD ONE SECOND.

MM-HMM, .

UM, I'M GONNA REINFORCE TO THE BOARD, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION AS WE GO, GET MY ATTENTION OR MR. AGNES OR MS. GA'S ATTENTION AND THEY'LL GET MY ATTENTION.

I LIKE IT.

INTERACTIVE PROCESS.

I HATE HAVING TO LISTEN TO A 30 MINUTE POWERPOINT AND THEN COMING BACK WITH

[02:10:01]

A QUESTION THAT WAS ON PAGE SIX OR WHATEVER.

SO I WANTED AS INTERACTIVE AS POSSIBLE.

SO IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION AS HE'S PROGRESSING THROUGH REASONABLY QUICKLY, PLEASE GET ONE OF OUR ATTENTIONS AND THEN I'LL RECOGNIZE YOU.

SO, AND BEAR WITH ME IF I INTERRUPT YOU.

NO WORRIES AT ALL.

SO AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE HAVE CERTAIN VALUES IN THE CITY.

THERE ARE FIVE OF THEM, AND ONE OF THE BIG ONES, AND THE ONE THAT I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT TODAY IS ETHICS.

UH, THIS IS MY GOAL FOR THE PRESENTATION.

UH, WE CAN'T POSSIBLY, UH, AND, AND MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU ON DAYS LIKE THIS, THIS, YOU'RE GONNA GET THIS AND TOMA AND PUBLIC INFORMATION, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A BIT OF A FIRE HOSE GOING ON HERE.

AND, AND, AND JUST, IF I HAD THE REST OF THE DAY, I COULDN'T POSSIBLY INGRAIN THE CODE OF ETHICS IN YOUR HEAD.

BUT WHAT I CAN DO IS GIVE YOU SOMETHING THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH FROM THE MOVIE, SORT OF A SPIDER SENSE, RIGHT? SO, SO THAT'S ONE OF MY BIG GOALS HERE.

I'M GONNA DO A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF THE CODE OF ETHICS, AND IT'S GONNA GO FROM VERY BROAD TO INCREASINGLY SPECIFIC.

AND MY HOPE IS THAT'S GONNA HELP DEVELOP SOME QUESTIONS FROM YOU ALL THAT WE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO ANSWER.

I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SAFEGUARDS ARE IN THE CODE OF ETHICS FOR YOU.

I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR RESOURCES ARE SO THAT WHEN THINGS COME UP, WHETHER IT'S A VIOLATION OR A CONFLICT, OR YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO, YOU KNOW WHERE TO FIND AND HOW TO GET THE INFORMATION.

I HAVE GIVEN YOU, UH, A HANDOUT WITH MY BUSINESS CARD ON IT.

SO YOU'VE GOT MY EMAIL.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT AT ANY TIME.

SO WHY ARE ETHICS IMPORTANT? WELL, YOU DEAL A LOT WITH FENCES, APPARENTLY, WHAT I'VE HEARD, AND THAT'S BECAUSE AS YOU ALL KNOW, GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBORS.

SO I WANT TO INTRODUCE YOU TO A MEMBER OF MY FAMILY.

HIS NAME'S PROFESSOR FRITZ.

IF YOU LOOK AT HIS CLAW THERE, THEY'RE EXTREMELY LONG AND HE LOVES TO DIG IN GARDENS.

AND I SHARE SOME BACKYARD SPACE WITH MY NEIGHBOR WHO LIKES TO GARDEN.

AND THAT IS A PROBLEM.

I'M SURE YOU DEAL WITH THINGS LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME WHEN YOU HAVE ZONING ISSUES, RIGHT? I MEAN, THERE ARE PROBLEMS BETWEEN NEIGHBORS.

SO HOW DID WE FIX IT? WELL, WE PUT A FENCE AROUND IT, AND NOW FRITZ CAN GO OUT AND PLAY AND DIG ALL HE WANTS.

MY NEIGHBOR CAN GROW HER GARDEN AND ALL IS WELL.

AND SO I SAY THAT TO, UH, GIVE YOU A CONCEPT THAT I THINK IS VERY HELPFUL IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THE STRUCTURE OF, UH, THE CODE OF ETHICS AND WHAT ETHICS IS FOR US, WHICH IS REALLY JUST THE RULES WE AGREE TO PLAY BY TO TOGETHER IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

SO THERE'S THE, THE GARDEN.

HERE'S THE TRUTH ABOUT THE CODE OF ETHICS BEING THE FENCE THAT WE USE TO LIVE TOGETHER AND, AND DO WELL AND RAISE UP THE VALUE OF ETHICS IN THE CITY.

AND THAT IS SIMPLY THIS.

IT'S ONLY AS STRONG AS OUR COMMITMENT TO IT.

SO THE CODE OF ETHICS ONLY WORKS WHEN WE WORK ON IT.

AND WE'LL COME BACK TO THIS THEME AGAIN AND AGAIN, BIG QUESTION.

WHY DOES MY DOG FRITZ, UH, BREAK THE CODE OF ETHICS AT MY HOUSE? LOOK AT HIM.

HE'S SITTING THERE.

THAT'S MY PEANUT BUTTER THAT HE HAS IN HIS MOUTH.

I LEFT IT ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER AND HE GRABBED IT ANYWAY.

AND IF I WAS STANDING THERE, HE WOULDN'T HAVE TOOK IT.

BUT I WASN'T THERE.

THIS IS WHEN I CAME HOME WHEN I TOOK THIS PICTURE, AND HE TOOK IT ANYWAY.

WHY DID HE DO THAT? HE DID THAT FOR WHAT WE CALL, UH, THE, THE FRAUD TRIANGLE.

THAT'S BIG AN INSPECTOR GENERAL WORLD.

AND YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE IT'S GONNA HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THINGS MIGHT BE ABOUT TO GO OFF THE RAIL.

UH, THE FRAUD TRIANGLE IS SIMPLY THIS.

SOMEONE HAS OPPORTUNITY AND SOMEONE HAS PRESSURE, A NEED OR AGREED FOR SOMETHING, AND THEN THIS RATIONALIZATION BEGINS.

IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF IT WAS THIS WAY, NOT THAT WAY, OR WE DESERVE THIS, OR WE NEED THIS, OR, THIS IS HOW THINGS HAVE TO BE.

WHEN YOU HEAR THAT KIND OF CONVERSATION, AND IT'S BEEN GREAT TO, TO BE HERE THIS MORNING AND LISTEN, UH, TO THE PRESENTATIONS AND TO, AND TO HEAR HOW THE BOARD IS WORKING ON THINGS.

AND EVERYONE'S WORKING ON THINGS TO GET CERTAIN LEVELS OF PRODUCTION GOING.

BUT WHAT I NEVER HEARD, AND, AND I'M GLAD I DIDN'T, IS THAT RATIONALIZATION.

WELL, I KNOW THE RULE IS THIS, BUT BOY, WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF WE DID THIS WAY? LET'S JUST DO IT THAT WAY BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE OR IT'S EASY, OR WE NEED IT OR WE WANT IT.

BUT WHEN YOU HEAR THAT, THAT'S WHEN THINGS START TO GO OFF THE RAIL.

SO WHY DO WE HAVE THE CODE? BECAUSE IT PROVIDES US A COMMON GUIDE.

IT BUILDS TRUST AND IT AVOIDS THAT RATIONALIZATION.

AND HERE'S THE BIG PRINCIPLE.

IF YOU UNDERSTAND THIS PRINCIPLE, WE COULD PASS OUT LEGAL PADS THIS MORNING, AND EVERY ONE OF US COULD WRITE THE CODE OF ETHICS, AND WE WOULD GET VERY CLOSE TO WHAT IT SAYS RIGHT NOW.

AND THE BIG PRINCIPLE IS SIMPLY THIS.

YOU HAVE ACCESS AND REALLY TREMENDOUS AUTHORITY.

THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MAKE IN TERMS OF THESE VARIANCES IN ZONING OBVIOUSLY AFFECTS A LOT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.

THE HOMEOWNERS AND THE COMPANIES AND THE REST OF IT THAT, UH, THE PEOPLE THAT COME BEFORE YOU.

AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS ACCESS TO THE AUTHORITY AND THIS INFORMATION AND THIS POWER, THEN YOU HAVE RESPONSIBILITY.

AND THE RESPONSIBILITY IS SIMPLY TO ACT

[02:15:01]

IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF DALLAS.

AND TO DO THAT WITH INDEPENDENCE AND TO DO THAT WITH IMPARTIALITY.

AND HERE'S WHERE THINGS GO WRONG, YOU KNOW, AROUND THE COUNTRY WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE IN ETHICAL SITUATIONS IN GOVERNMENT, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING OFF IN HANDCUFFS TO GIVE YOU THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, WHY IS THAT? IT'S BECAUSE THEY TOOK THAT PERSONAL RESPONSE, UH, THAT PERSONAL ACCESS THAT THEY HAD, AND THEY USE IT FOR PERSONAL GAIN.

IF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ONE PRINCIPLE, YOU'VE GOT THE CODE OF ETHICS IN YOUR HEAD, AND YOU COULD WRITE IT FOR YOURSELF, BUT WE'RE STILL GONNA GO THROUGH IT, SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO USE THE ANALOGY OF OFFENSE THIS MORNING.

UH, THE REASON FOR USING THE ANALOGY IS BECAUSE FOR ME, AS A LEARNER, IT'S HELPFUL TO HAVE A STRUCTURE OR A SKELETON IN MY MIND BEFORE SOMEONE STARTS THROWING A BUNCH OF RULES AT ME.

AND IF I'VE GOT THAT STRUCTURE OR, OR SKELETON, WHEN THE RULES COME AT ME, I, I KIND OF KNOW WHERE THEY HANG, I KNOW WHERE THEY FIT.

AND SO WE'RE GONNA USE THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE OF OFFENSE TO TALK ABOUT ETHICS.

AND FIRST, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ETHICS AND THE FENCE, YOU KNOW, WHERE'S OUR ETHICAL FENCE GONNA GO? OBVIOUSLY, CITY OF DALLAS OBVIOUSLY APPLIES TO EMPLOYEES, CITY OFFICIALS.

THAT'S YOU, YOU NEED TO KNOW.

IT ALSO APPLIES TO PEOPLE TRYING TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY.

SO ALL THESE RULES WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT, THEY APPLY TO THEM AS WELL.

SO THAT'S THE LOCATION FOR OUR FENCE.

COMING BACK TO THIS POINT, AGAIN, IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE, JUST LIKE A CHAIN IS ONLY AS STRONG AS ITS WEAKEST LINK, YOU ARE THE FENCE.

EACH OF US IS THE FENCE.

SO TO THE EXTENT WE UPHOLD AND VALUE AND STAND FOR AND STAND IN THE WAY OF UNETHICAL THINGS, WE'RE BEING THE FENCE THAT THE CITY NEEDS.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE.

YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE INSPECTOR DIVISION WAS STARTED WAS TO IMPROVE THE PUBLIC TRUST IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

AND THAT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN EVERY ONE OF US IS WILLING TO STAND AND BE THAT FENCE.

SO WHAT IS THE CODE? IT'S MORE THAN JUST A, A GUIDELINE OR A BUNCH OF ESOTERIC RULES.

IT REALLY IS A DOCUMENT THAT TELLS YOU FOUR KEY THINGS.

UH, IT TELLS YOU WHAT'S EXPECTED OF YOU AND WHAT'S EXPECTED OF ME.

IT TELLS US WHAT THE BOUNDARIES ARE.

IN OTHER WORDS, HOW FAR IS TOO FAR.

IT TELLS US WHAT THE SAFEGUARDS OR THE GUARDRAILS ARE.

SO WHAT ARE THE THINGS IN PLACE THAT ARE GONNA KEEP US FROM GOING TOO FAR? AND SOME OF THOSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH, LIKE GIFT REPORTING, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT.

UM, AND THEN FINALLY, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THINGS GO OFF THE RAILS? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S A VIOLATION? UH, AND THOSE, THOSE TIMES ARE NO FUN WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

BUT WE'RE GONNA PREPARE YOU FOR, UH, WHAT THE DIFFERENT DUTIES ARE WHEN THOSE, UH, ISSUES COME UP.

SO NOW WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE, THE POSTS OF THE FENCE.

EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THOSE ARE, THE VERTICAL THINGS ON THE FENCE THAT REALLY DEMARCATE THE BOUNDARY OF THE FENCE.

AND I'M GONNA GIVE YOU SOME GOOD NEWS.

SO THERE ARE 11 ARTICLES IN THE CODE OF ETHICS, BUT THERE ARE REALLY FOUR POSTS, OR FOUR ARTICLES OR CHAPTERS THAT I THINK YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO.

SO THAT JUST CUT YOUR READING WAY DOWN FROM 11 ARTICLES TO FOUR.

AND SO WE'RE GONNA CALL THOSE ARTICLES, THE POSTS, AND THEY'RE, UH, ARTICLES ONE, TWO, AND THREE AND SIX.

NOW THE SIXTH ONE HAS TO DO WITH REPORTING LITTLE ADVERTISEMENT.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST AREAS OF CONCERN IN THE CITY WHEN WE TALK TO DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS IS, UH, HOW DO WE REPORT GIFTS? HOW DOES THAT WORK? IT'S SO CONFUSING.

I'M GIVING A SPECIAL LUNCH AND LEARN ON NOVEMBER THE 15TH, JUST ABOUT GIFTS.

SO MARK THAT ON YOUR CALENDAR.

IT'S PART OF ETHICS WEEKS.

WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT GIFTS MORE IN DEPTH, BUT 95% OF ANYTHING YOU'RE GONNA COME UP AGAINST AS A CITY OFFICIAL IS IN ARTICLES ONE, TWO, AND THREE.

THAT'S LESS THAN 30 SECTIONS OR 30 RULES.

IF YOU READ ONE A DAY JUST TO PUT YOURSELF TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT AT THE END OF A MONTH THAT YOU WILL HAVE READ THE WHOLE CODE OF ETHIC.

THAT'S GONNA APPLY 95% OF THE TIME TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

AND WHAT THAT'S GONNA DO FOR YOU IS IT'S NOT GONNA MAKE YOU AN EXPERT.

YOU'RE, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GONNA, UH, CALL UP TAMMY AND SAY, HEY, I WANNA BE THE INSPECTOR GENERAL.

BUT WHAT IT IS GONNA DO FOR YOU IS WHEN AN ISSUE COMES UP, YOU'RE GONNA REMEMBER BECAUSE YOU READ IT YOURSELF AND YOU HEARD IT HERE TODAY, AND YOUR SPIDER SENSE IS GONNA GO OFF.

AND AFTER TODAY, YOU'LL KNOW WHAT TOOLS TO IM, UH, TO USE WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

OKAY? SO THOSE ARE THE POSTS OF THE FENCE.

NOW, THERE ARE TWO MAIN BACKERS, A BACKER AND A FENCE, OR THE HORIZONTAL, UH, BOARDS.

THEY GIVE STRUCTURE TO OFFENSE.

THE POINT OF THIS IS THERE ARE CERTAIN RULES IN THE CODE OF ETHICS THAT, UH, APPLY ALL THE TIME.

THEY PROVIDE STRUCTURE TO THE CODE OF ETHICS AND THEY REALLY FIT IN TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.

THE FIRST ONE IS WHAT IS YOUR DUTY?

[02:20:02]

AND I KNOW WITH THIS GROUP, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM FIDUCIARY DUTY, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.

BUT REALLY IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, ALL OF US, UH, EMPLOYEES AND CITY OFFICIALS HAVE A FIDUCIARY DUTY TO THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF DALLAS.

AND THEN THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF RULES THAT ARE ABOUT STANDARDS OF CONDUCT AND STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR.

AND THESE ARE LIKE THE BACKERS ON A FENCE.

THEY APPLY ALL THE TIME, NO MATTER WHAT INDIVIDUAL RULE WE'RE DEALING WITH, THESE BACKERS APPLY.

SO WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, FIDUCIARY DUTY, UTMOST DUTY OF LOYALTY AND CARE.

EASY WAY TO UNDERSTAND IT.

IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT, WHICH WITH THIS GROUP, I'D BE SURPRISED.

BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT FROM YOUR DOCTOR, RIGHT? YOU WANT YOUR DOCTOR TO BE GIVING YOU MEDICINE THAT YOU NEED.

NOT THAT MIGHT BENEFIT THE DOCTOR BECAUSE HE GETS A LITTLE EXTRA MONEY WITH THIS ONE AND THAT ONE.

YOU WANT THE DOCTOR TO GIVE YOU THE SURGERY THAT YOU NEED, NOT TO GIVE YOU SOME THAT WILL HELP MAKE THE DOCTOR, UH, A GREAT HOUSE IN ASPEN, RIGHT? THAT'S FIDUCIARY DUTY.

YOU WANT THE DOCTOR TO BE OPERATING IN YOUR BEST INTEREST.

AND THAT'S THE DUTY THAT WE OWE TO THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY WHEN WE DO OUR WORK HERE.

ALL OF US.

AND HERE'S WHAT'S LOST, I THINK SOMETIMES IS IT'S NOT JUST CONDUCT, IT'S ALSO APPEARANCE.

SO IT'S CONDUCT AND APPEARANCE.

NOW, HOW WE DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OF APPEARANCE, WE'LL GET TO A LITTLE BIT LATER.

WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR HAND IS IN THE COOKIE JAR, WHAT DO YOU DO VERSUS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DO HAVE A CONFLICT.

BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT DUTY APPLIES TO BOTH OTHER BACKERS.

CIVILITY, UH, EVERYBODY KNOWS CIVILITY IS A BIG ISSUE ALL ACROSS THE WORLD THESE DAYS.

UH, MUCH LESS JUST HERE IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

HOW WE TREAT ONE ANOTHER MATTERS.

IT MAKES THIS A GREAT PLACE TO WORK.

IT, IT MAKES WORK FUN TO DO.

YOU WANT TO GET UP.

IT, IT, WHEN I CAN IMAGINE HEARING THE DIFFERENT COMMENTS TODAY, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO REVIEW ALL THESE PROJECTS AND GET 'EM UP AND READY FOR A HEARING IN 60 DAYS WHEN WE'RE CIVIL AND WE WORK TOGETHER AND WE PLAY NICELY, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, I WOULD IMAGINE WORK GETS DONE A LITTLE BIT FASTER.

BUT REGARDLESS, IT'S A PART OF THE CODE OF ETHICS.

WE'VE GOTTA TREAT ONE ANOTHER.

WE, WELL LOOK AT THIS PICTURE.

DO YOU SEE A RABBIT OR A DUCK? SOME PEOPLE SEE BOTH.

UH, THE REASON I PUT THAT UP THERE IS TO SAY, YOU MAY BE DOING THINGS THE RIGHT WAY.

SO FOR INSTANCE, IF I SEE A RABBIT, RABBIT, I SEE A RABBIT.

BUT IF I LOOK LIKE A DUCK, WALK LIKE A DUCK, QUACK LIKE A DUCK, WHAT'S THE SAYING? GO, YOU'RE A DUCK.

WHAT'S THE POINT? IF IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR HAND IS IN THE COOKIE JAR, IF IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS NOT ON THE UP AND UP, THEN YOU'VE GOT AN APPEARANCE.

THAT ISSUE THERE, YOU'VE GOTTA FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT.

NOW, IF IT LOOKS LIKE A CONFLICT, BUT IT'S NOT A CONFLICT, YOU CAN'T RECUSE YOURSELF, WHICH WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT RECUSAL 'CAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A CONFLICT.

BUT I JUST WANT TO PRESS YOU ON WHEN YOU HAVE A, AN APPEARANCE ISSUE, AT LEAST BE THINKING ABOUT HOW CAN YOU DISCLOSE THIS.

FOR INSTANCE, UH, CHAIRMAN NEWMAN, IT'S NOT AN ACTUAL QUESTION, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE MY HAND'S IN THE COOKIE JAR HERE.

IS THERE A DIFFERENT WAY WE CAN DO THAT? SO WE AVOID THAT APPEARANCE, AND THEN YOU, YOU START WORKING THROUGH WHATEVER THE, THE PROBLEM IS.

SO YOU LOOK AT THE CODE HERE BECAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT HERE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.

IT DEALS WITH APPEARANCE IN SEVERAL PLACES.

BUT HERE IT ACTUALLY SAYS, CAREFULLY CONSIDER THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF PERSONAL, I'M JUST GONNA PAUSE IT.

PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL ACTIONS AND THE EFFECT THAT THAT HAS ON THE CITY'S REPUTATION.

SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE BACKERS.

IT'S A RULE THAT APPLIES ALL THE TIME.

WE'VE GOTTA WATCH OUT FOR HOW THINGS LOOK CITY OFFICIALS.

AND THAT'S YOU.

THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE, AND I BELIEVE YOU'LL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.

AND IT'S NOT, IT'S STRAIGHTFORWARD, AND YET THERE'S SOME PRACTICALITIES THAT YOU ALL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORK THROUGH.

BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL PROVISIONS OF THE CODE.

AND IN LATER SLIDES YOU'LL SEE, UH, IN SECTION EIGHT OF THE CODE AS WELL AS WHERE WE ARE NOW, SECTION 12 THAT HAVE TO DO WITH INTERFERENCE.

THEY, THEY HAVE TO DO WITH HOW YOU INTERACT WITH CITY STAFF AND THE PLAIN AND SIMPLE RULES.

YOU, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK THROUGH CHANNELS SUCH AS DIRECTORS TO GET WORK DONE.

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO INTERFERE, IMPAIR, OR, OR INFLUENCE THE WORK OF EMPLOYEES.

AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF RESTRICTIONS.

GENERALLY WHEN DEALING WITH YOU PRACTICALLY.

HOW YOU WORK THAT OUT IS SOMETHING I I EXPECT TO GET A QUESTION OR TWO ON HERE IN A MINUTE.

I'M GONNA GIVE A COUPLE EXAMPLES FOR EVERYONE TO ABSORB BECAUSE THIS IS A TEMPTATION OVER TIME.

SO EACH MONTH PANEL, A, B, OR C OR ALL THREE OR ONE OR TWO OR THREE WILL MEET AND THE AGENDA IS FORMULATED AND THE CASES ARE FORMULATED BY THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF WHEN THEY PUBLISH THAT SEVEN DAYS ADVANCE IN ADVANCE OF A HEARING DATE, AND IT GOES ON THE WEBSITE AND THE PANEL HEARING.

THE CASE GETS AN

[02:25:01]

EMAIL AND IT LISTS THE CA THE CASE AND SO FORTH.

IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO DIGEST WHAT THE CASE, THE REQUEST BY THE TAXPAYER, THE STAFF ANALYSIS, THE MAP, ALL THAT SORT OF THING.

WHAT'S INAPPROPRIATE IS TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL DR. MILLER HOSKINS OR MS. BARKUM OR EVEN JASON POOLE AND ASK ABOUT THE CASE.

WOO OOH, NO, NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

BECAUSE THEN YOU ARE PART THAT IS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS AND IT'S A TEMPTATION POTENTIALLY.

AND IT'S HAPPENED SOMETIMES WHERE IT'S TEMPTING TO SAY, I NEED FURTHER CLARIFICATION.

NO, NO, THAT HAS TO HAPPEN AT THE BRIEFING AND AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.

NOW, I'M NOT SAYING ANYONE'S EVER DONE THAT.

I'M JUST SAYING AS A GENERAL RULE, LIKEWISE, IF, AND MR. MILLIKEN AND I ARE NOT ON THE SAME PANEL, SO IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN, BUT I'LL JUST PICK ON YOU, MR. MILLIKEN, IF HE GETS HIS DOCKET AND I GET MY DOCKET, IT'S NOT EVER APPROPRIATE FOR HIM TO PICK UP THE PHONE OR EMAIL OR TEXT ME AND ASK ABOUT THAT CASE.

OH MY GOSH, NO.

THAT'S A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF, OF THAT COMMUNICATION PRIOR TO A HEARING.

SO WE'LL GO INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE LATER.

BUT THE, THE MAIN POINT I'M GOING AFTER IS THAT COMMUNICATION BACK TO THE STAFF RELATING TO A SPECIFIC CASE.

NOW, IF, IF THERE IS A GENERAL PHILOSOPHICAL OR PROCESS ISSUE AS A BOARD MEMBER, I WOULD SAY WORK THROUGH YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER, YOUR TWO VICE CHAIRMANS OR MYSELF TO ASK ABOUT A PHILOSOPHICAL OR PROCESS ISSUE, NOT ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE UNTIL THAT PUBLIC HEARING OCCURS.

OKAY? GREAT ADVICE.

NO, I, I'M JUST TRYING TO, I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT YOU'RE CONVEYING TO US HERE APPLIES TO US HERE IN, IN THE REALITY OF WHAT EACH BOARD MEMBER WOULD, WOULD EXPERIENCE ON A MONTHLY BASIS.

MR. AGNIS, I WOULD ALSO JUST ADD THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN OUR CASE, MR. POOLE SPEAKS FOR THE CITY MANAGER SPEAK.

SO HE SPEAKS FOR THE DIRECTOR.

UH, SO AS, AS TO THE EXTENT WE, WE SPEAK TO MR. MR. POOLE, UH, HE IS THE PROXY DESIGNATED BY UP HIGH, UH, BECAUSE FRANKLY, THEY DON'T WANNA HEAR FROM US EVERY DAY OR, UH, SO JUST THAT, THAT IS THE, THE DEFACTO, UH, WAY I BELIEVE THAT, THAT MR. ESPINOZA HAS ASKED US TO DO IT.

AND THAT FRANKLY IS REALLY YOU SPEAKING TO HIM.

SO, OKAY, KEEP GOING.

YOU CAN'T DISCLOSE CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

SO THERE'S A, UH, THANK YOU FOR ADDING THAT CLARIFICATION.

AND, UM, THAT'S WHY I PUT THAT IMAGE OF THE SWIMMING POOL THERE.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT IMAGE.

AND I WANNA, I WANNA REITERATE AGAIN, I'VE NOT SEEN IN A SITUATION WHERE ANY BOARD MEMBER DID THAT.

I'D HEAR ABOUT IT.

I'VE NEVER, I'VE NOT SEEN IT.

IF I SAW IT, I WOULD'VE SAID, OKAY, I'M GONNA PICK ON YOU, MR. BROOKS.

I'D SAY, OH MY GOSH, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

I WOULDN'T MAKE IT PUBLIC, BUT I'D JUST SAY, I DIDN'T SAY YOU DID, BUT, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE SAFETIES.

YOU DON'T EVER CROSS THAT LINE TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE BACK WITH THE STAFF, BECAUSE THEN YOU'VE STARTED THE DELIBERATION PROCESS.

AND THAT SHOULD NOT OCCUR UNTIL THE PUBLIC HEARING.

SO GO AHEAD, I'M SORRY.

NO WORRIES.

EXACTLY.

AND, UM, YOU, YOU HEARD THE KEYWORD.

I MEAN, THEY EVEN USE IT CHANNELS.

YOU WORK THROUGH CHANNELS, YOU DO THINGS CORRECTLY, AND YOU DON'T BUMP INTO THIS.

AND, UH, WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT SOME OTHER RULES THAT WE'RE GONNA GET TO, BUT HERE ARE SOME OTHER, AND BY THE WAY, NONE OF THESE SLIDES ARE BASED ON, ON ME THINKING THIS IS ANYTHING THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS JUST A GENERAL, I'M TRYING TO GET THE CODE OF ETHICS IN YOUR HEAD SO YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE IT.

SO DON'T THINK, UH, THERE'S ANYTHING POINTED GOING ON OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO THERE'S A, A SET OF BACKERS, AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE WE ARE ON THE FENCE RULES THAT APPLY ALL THE TIME.

HERE'S SOME MUST NOTS, AND THEY HAVE TO DO WITH REALLY PROTECTING OTHER PEOPLE.

UH, WE DON'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PROTECTED CLASSES.

THAT'S NOT ROCK ROCKET SCIENCE.

WHEN SOMEONE DOES COOPERATE WITH US, UH, IN AN INVESTIGATION OR ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE CODE OF ETHICS, WE DON'T ALLOW PEOPLE TO RETALIATE AGAINST THEM.

THAT'S NOT EVEN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

WE HAVE THAT PROVISION IN THE CODE, BUT, BUT ALSO THE STATE OF TEXAS, UH, WE DON'T GET OTHER PEOPLE TO VIOLATE THE CODE FOR US.

SO I CAN'T GO TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND SAY, WELL, LISTEN, I'M, I'M A CITY OFFICIAL.

I SIT ON THIS BOARD.

I CAN'T GO TALK TO THE EMPLOYEE, BUT SO WILL YOU GO DO IT FOR ME? WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T DO AN IN ROUND, UH, IN RUN LIKE THAT.

AND A REAL BIG CONCEPT FOR YOU ALL, BUT IT, THE ANSWER'S PRETTY EASY ACROSS THE BOARDS.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH MR. MILLIKEN AND MR. THEY CAN'T BE TALKING ABOUT CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

NOW, A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DEAL WITH IS PUBLIC BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE BECAUSE OF, OF WHAT YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT LATER.

HOWEVER, SOME OF THE THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT ARE NOT.

SO WHEN YOU GO INTO EXECUTIVE

[02:30:01]

SESSION, GUESS WHAT? YOU CAN'T COME OUT AND TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.

TALK ABOUT WHAT WAS ON A CERTIFIED AGENDA, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

SO THOSE ARE RULES THAT APPLY ALL THE TIME.

AND THEN FINALLY HERE, WHAT YOU MUST DO IS THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU TO KNOW THIS IS ON YOU.

WE'VE GOT A PICTURE OF A GUY THERE, HIS NAME'S MR. FLEET.

REALLY INTERESTING STORY.

LOOK OUT ON THE TITANIC, THE NIGHT IT SUNK.

UH, HE DIDN'T SEE THE ICEBERGS, OBVIOUSLY.

DID YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY BINOCULARS? CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE LOCKED IN A CABINET? WHY DO I BOTHER TO TELL THIS STORY? BECAUSE THE CODE OF ETHICS IS LIKE THOSE BINOCULARS.

AND WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DO WITH DOCUMENTS LIKE THIS IS AFTER THE PRESENTATION, THEY JUST SET IT ASIDE AND YOU NEVER READ IT AGAIN.

AND YOU, YOU DON'T GET IT IN YOUR HEAD.

WELL, THE CODE OF ETHICS SAYS YOU'VE, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THIS IN YOUR HEAD AND FOR KNOWING THESE RULES, THEY'RE LIKE YOUR BINOCULARS.

SO YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO USE 'EM AND NEED TO HAVE 'EM KIND OF IN YOUR BRAIN GOING ON.

SO THOSE ARE BACKERS IN THE FENCE.

FINALLY, WE GET TO THE BIG STUFF, THE PICKETS OF THE FENCE.

THESE ARE THE INDIVIDUAL RULES THAT TEND TO APPLY WHEN THERE'S A CONFLICT.

AND THIS IS WHERE REALLY I THINK ARTICLE THREE, THAT POST ONE OF THOSE POSTS, UH, YOU'RE REALLY GONNA BUMP INTO THE MOST, UM, TRACTION WITH THE CODE OF ETHICS PRO TIP HERE.

I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GETTING YOUR AGENDAS SEVEN DAYS IN ADVANCE.

SO I WANNA ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ YOUR AGENDA AS SOON AS YOU GET IT, AND TRY AND FIGURE OUT IF ONE OF THESE CONFLICTS THAT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT IS GONNA APPLY TO YOU SO THAT YOU'RE NOT SITTING HERE WITH A CONFLICT AND DON'T KNOW IT UNTIL YOU'RE ALREADY KNEE DEEP IN DISCUSSION.

SO IT'S REALLY GONNA BE IMPORTANT, AND YOU DON'T HAVE A GREAT WINDOW OF TIME TO FIGURE THESE THINGS OUT.

SO I WANT TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO, UH, READ YOUR ADD AGENDA.

NOW, THIS SLIDE, ALMOST EVERY WORD OR PHRASE IN IT CONNECTS WITH A CODE OF ETHICS PROVISION.

SO I'M JUST GONNA READ IT TO YOU WHERE YOU HAVE AUTHORITY, WHICH IS HERE IN YOUR POSITION, UH, ON THIS BOARD, THERE MAY BE A CONFLICT IF YOU ARE RELATED TO OWN, REPRESENT WORK FOR, DO BUSINESS WITH, GET GIFTS FROM, HAVE A JOB LINED UP WITH A PERSON OR ENTITY, A HOMEOWNER, A GROUP DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY.

IT'S THAT EASY.

NOW, OBVIOUSLY IT GETS MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE THAT'S PART OF MY JOB WHEN WE FIND THE, THE EDGES AND THE MARGINS, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE QUESTIONS.

BUT REALLY IT'S THAT EASY.

NOW, THERE'S ANOTHER, UH, PICKET IN THERE.

IT'S MISCELLANEOUS CONFLICTS OF INTEREST IN 12 A 14.

IT COVERS THINGS THAT I THINK OF AS LIKE INSIDER TRADING.

LIKE IF, IF YOU KNOW, THE CITY OF DALLAS IS GOING TO BE ACQUIRING OR, UH, PROPERTY BECAUSE YOU'RE A CITY OFFICIAL, YOU HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATION, YOU LEARN THAT BECAUSE OF YOUR ACCESS, YOU DON'T GET TO GO TRADE OFF THAT.

WHY? BECAUSE THE PUBLIC DOESN'T GET THAT SAME OPPORTUNITY.

UM, YOU CAN'T BARGAIN FOR RECIPROCAL FAVORS.

YOU MAKE A, UH, I EVEN HATE SAYING THIS TO YOU 'CAUSE I JUST, YOU LOOK LIKE GOOD PEOPLE TO ME.

I CAN'T IMAGINE YOU DOING THIS.

BUT THE, THIS IS WHAT THE CODE OF ETHICS SAYS.

AND IT SAYS IT BECAUSE SOMEBODY IN THE PAST MUST HAVE GONE THERE AND DONE THAT.

YOU CAN'T BARGAIN WITH SOMEBODY.

IF I MAKE A GOOD DECISION FOR YOU AND THIS CASE, I'M GONNA GET THAT RIGHT.

UH, YOU CAN'T WITHIN A YEAR, UM, MAKE A DEAL, UH, THAT OR, OR, UH, MAKE A RULING ON A ZONING CASE FOR SOMEONE THAT, UH, TO BENEFIT SOMEONE THAT YOU WORKED WITH WITHIN THE LAST YEAR.

UH, AND THERE ARE SOME AREA OF NOTIFICATION CONFLICTS THAT AS THIS GETS MORE DETAILED, WE'LL, WE'LL GO OVER MORE FULLY.

BUT LET ME STOP FOR A MINUTE.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR? OKAY, KEEP GOING.

WE'RE WE'RE, WE'RE ALMOST RUNNING OUT OF TIME, SO JUST KEEP GOING.

ALL RIGHT, WE'LL KEEP PLUGGING AWAY.

I I HAVE FOUR O'CLOCK ON MY MIND FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFITS.

I GOTCHA.

SO POLITICAL ACTIVITY, I WON'T READ THAT, BUT YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S A SECTION IN THERE, 12, A 21 THAT'S GONNA DEFINE FOR YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW.

UH, IF YOU WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN POLITICS AND ELECTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT HERE IN THE CITY.

CHEAT SHEETS.

THICK IRONY, I'VE GIVEN YOU ONE.

THAT'S YOUR HANDOUT.

I CALLED IT A TABLE OF CONTENTS.

IT'S REALLY GONNA GET YOU THROUGH THE CODE AND SHOW YOU WHERE TO LOOK FOR THINGS.

HERE'S JUST SOME SLIDES SHOWING YOU WHAT I'VE PROVIDED YOU AS A HANDOUT, UM, BUMPING INTO A CONFLICT.

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU BUMP INTO A CONFLICT? WELL, UH, YOU'RE NOT IN TROUBLE.

IT'S JUST CALLED RECUSAL.

THE PROCEDURES FOR RECUSAL ARE IN 12 A SECTION, UH, 24.

FROM THE TIME YOU RECOGNIZE THAT YOU'VE GOT A CONFLICT, YOU BASICALLY, YOU'RE RAISING YOUR HAND BY GETTING A FORM FROM THE CITY SECRETARY.

SO HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

IF YOU ARE ASSIGNED TO A PANEL AND YOU HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE'S A POTENTIAL CONFLICT, YOUR FIRST CALL IS TO YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER.

SO I'M GONNA APPLY THAT TO US, OKAY? MEMBERS,

[02:35:01]

SO PANEL A, YOUR FIRST CALLS TO MYSELF, PANEL B, YOUR FIRST CALLS TO MS. GABO, PANEL C, PANEL B, MS, GABO, PANEL CS, MR. AGNES, THAT IS YOUR CALL.

THEY WILL THEN COORDINATE PROBABLY WITH THE BOARD SECRETARY AND OR THE CITY SECRETARY IN ORDER TO DO THE PROCESS OF WHAT HE'S SPEAKING TO.

BUT YOUR FIRST CALL IS TO YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER BECAUSE THAT PERSON THEN KNOWS WE'RE GONNA NEED TO GET AN ALTERNATE TO FILL THE SLOT.

'CAUSE YOU HEARD MY PUBLIC COMMITMENT TO KEEP FULLY FIVED PANELS, THAT SORT OF DEAL.

SO, ALRIGHT, GO AHEAD.

YES, MS. LAMB.

UM, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT THIS ALSO APPLIES TO, UM, THIS, THE GUIDELINES HERE.

IF SOMEBODY, AN APPLICANT REACHES OUT TO YOU EX PARTE, UM, OR SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN INTEREST IN AN APPLICATION OUTSIDE OF THE PUBLIC FORUM, I THINK THIS, THIS PROCESS ALSO APPLIES IN, IN THAT SCENARIO.

AND MR. UH, SAP, YOU'LL CORRECT ME PLEASE.

IN THAT SCENARIO WHERE YOU'VE BEEN CONTACTED ABOUT A PENDING CASE, UM, YOU, YOU OWE A DUTY TO, I WOULD, I WOULD TELL YOU AGAIN TO CONTACT YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER.

THAT'S ONE, UH, THAT PRESIDING OFFICER WILL MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL WHETHER IT REQUIRES THE BOARD ATTORNEY IN INTERVENTION OR AT THE SUBSEQUENT HEARING WHERE YOU PUBLICLY DISCLOSE IT.

I KNOW THIS HAS HAPPENED TO ME ONCE OR TWICE.

AND AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, I WILL SAY ON DATE X, THE APPLICANT INDIRECTLY CONTACTED ME AND I IMMEDIATELY SAID, NO, WE CANNOT TALK ABOUT THIS.

AND WE DID NOT.

AND I WANTED TO DISCLOSE TO MY PANEL, I'LL COME TO YOU ONE SECOND.

MR. BROOKS, I WANTED DISCLOSE MY PANEL.

WE DID NOT TALK ABOUT THE CASE, BUT THIS OCCURRED.

I THEN LET THE PANEL ASK ANY QUESTION THEY WANTED TO, AND IT IT WAS RESOLVED MR. BROOKS IN HEARINGS.

OCCASIONALLY YOU'LL REALIZE AT THE LAST MINUTE THAT THERE MAY BE A CONFLICT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD HOW YOU WOULD LIKE US JUST VERY SORT OF FORMULAICALLY TO BRING UP THAT A CONFLICT MAY EXIST.

LET'S SAY WE'RE IN A HEARING RIGHT NOW.

I REALIZE THAT THE CIO AND I ARE BEST FRIENDS AND I WOULD NEVER DO WRONG TO HIM.

WHAT DO I DO? WHO DO I ADDRESS FIRST? I DON'T THINK BEST FRIENDS DISQUALIFIES YOU.

WE'RE BUSINESS PARTNERS.

OH, THAT'S D DIFFERENT AND BOTH OWN THE PROPERTY IN THAT'S DIFFERENT BUSINESS PARTNER'S DIFFERENT.

MY, MY COMMENT TO YOU AGAIN IS YOU GO TO YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER FIRST BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DUTY TO THE PANEL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE APPLICANT, THE APPLICATION IS HEARD FAIRLY.

AND PART OF THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PANEL DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONFLICTS AND IT'S NOT TAINTED.

AND ALSO IT'S FULLY STAFFED WITH MEMBERS THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST CALL, CALL AND CONTACT YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER.

NOW, MYSELF, ROBERT OR SHERRY MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW WHETHER THAT'S A CONFLICT, BUT THE ONE OF US WILL QUICKLY GET TO AN ATTORNEY AND SAY, DOES THIS APPLY OR NOT? IN THE PAST, MR. ELIASSON, WE WOULD GO TO OUR BOARD ATTORNEY, MR. SAPPER, MR. MOORE, WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION WHETHER WE STILL GO TO THE BOARD ATTORNEY OR GO TO YOU DIRECTLY.

I'D SAY STILL GO TO OUR BOARD ATTORNEY AND LET HIM BE THE VALVE THAT CROSSES TO YOU QUICKLY.

UH, BECAUSE I WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S A CONSISTENT PROCESS.

BUT SO DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? NO.

A LITTLE.

WHAT'S THE BRIGHT LINE? WE CAN STAND BEHIND? WELL, NO, HOLD ON.

IF, IF, IF I MAY, IF I HAVE A CONFLICT, DO I SAY MR. CHAIR, I THINK I HAVE A CONFLICT? YES.

AND I SAY WHAT CASE? OKAY.

AND YOU TELL ME THE CASE AND UM, I'M GONNA SAY, TELL ME WHY YOU THINK YOU HAVE A CONFLICT.

I'M NOT GONNA GO DEEP.

I'M JUST GONNA ASK ENOUGH TO SAY, OOH, YOU KNOW, BEST FRIEND IS NOT A CONFLICT UNLESS YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CASE.

RIGHT? BUSINESS PARTNER CROSSES THE LINE, I THINK BECAUSE IT GOES TO INTEREST, BUSINESS INTEREST.

AND THAT'S WHEN I'D SAY, ALRIGHT, I'M GONNA PUT YOU IN TOUCH EITHER WITH MR. SAP OR MR. ELIASON IN ORDER TO GET THAT RESOLVED.

IN THE MEANTIME, I'M THINKING I'M GONNA NEED AN ALTERNATE.

OKAY? 'CAUSE I'VE GOTTA MAKE SURE THE PANEL IS STAFFED PROPERLY.

DOES THIS HAPPEN ON THE RECORD? NO, IT'S JUST A PHONE CALL.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S OKAY AS LONG.

BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CASE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A POTENTIAL CONFLICT WHEN WE'RE IN SESSION, WHEN WE ARE AT HEARING, OH, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE HEARING.

WHEN WE'RE AT A HEARING.

WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE RECORD? WELL, IF IT HAPPENS DURING A HEARING, YOU'RE, WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE TO RECESS THE HEARING IN ORDER TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE BOARD ATTORNEY PRESENT TO EX UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT, AND THAT GOES BACK TO MR. ELIASON'S COMMENT, YOU GOTTA PREVIEW, REVIEW YOUR DOCKET WHEN YOU GET IT SO THAT, BECAUSE IF IT HAPPENS IN THE HEARING, I CAN'T GET YOU AN ALTERNATE AND THEN THE PANEL'S FOUR.

AND OOF, THAT'S, THAT'S A TOUGH ONE.

I MAY, UH, MR. BROOKS, THAT'S THE SCENARIO YOU'RE DESCRIBING.

MR. CHAIRMAN, IF

[02:40:01]

I'LL BE NEXT.

MR. IS FAIRLY UNLIKELY BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID, YOU WOULD'VE REVIEWED THE CASES BEFOREHAND.

UM, AND, AND I'M ASSUMING THAT LIKE IF IT, IF YOU DON'T REALIZE YOU HAVE A CONFLICT UNTIL THE DAY, OR YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE HEARING, IT'S PROBABLY NOT THAT, UM, SIGNIFICANT OF A RELATIONSHIP THAT YOU WOULD, THAT IT, IT WOULD BE A CONFLICT.

SO THEORETICALLY IT'S UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN.

BUT WE WOULD BE IN A, SURE.

I I, I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN BEFORE WHERE IT HASN'T BEEN A CONFLICT, BUT I REALIZE THAT IT'S SOME FRIENDS OF OURS WHOSE LAST NAMES I DON'T REALLY KNOW, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE SITTING IN FRONT OF ME OR ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE IN THE BRIEFING ROOM, ALL OF A SUDDEN A LAWYER.

WOULD YOU CLARIFY MY COMMENT AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO MR. SLADE THAT A FRIENDSHIP IS NOT A CONFLICT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION.

NO, I WANT, I WANT HIM TO SAY, TELL US THAT A FRIENDSHIP'S NOT A CONFLICT.

RIGHT? A FRIENDSHIP'S NOT A CONFLICT.

AND WE'RE COMING TO SOME OF THE OTHER RULES THAT THAT WOULD APPLY, UH, WHERE THERE WOULD BE A CONFLICT.

AND, AND WHERE YOU'RE LIKELY TO SEE THIS IS IF YOU'RE RELATED TO SOMEBODY THAT OWNS A BIG COMPANY THAT DOES A LOT OF REAL ESTATE AND YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU REALIZE THAT BIG COMPANY THAT YOUR RELATIVE IS RUNNING AND THEY'VE GOT AN INTEREST IN THIS ZONING CASE.

THAT'S USUALLY WHERE THAT, WHERE THAT COMES UP.

NOW, WHEN YOU, WHEN THIS HAPPENS, UH, YOU IMMEDIATELY RECOGNITION, YOU SAY SOMETHING AS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, AND THEN YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN DISCUSSIONS ANYMORE.

AND HERE'S A RULE I LEARNED ABOUT, IT'S NOT IN THE CODE OF ETHICS, BUT, UM, YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE BUILDING.

SO YOU'RE DISCUSSING THIS, WELL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IF IT OCCURRED IN THE MIDDLE OF A HEARING, IN THE MIDDLE OF A HEARING, RIGHT? YES.

ALRIGHT, HOLD THAT THOUGHT, MR. SL, I MEAN, THIS CAN COME UP IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION TO A CASE, IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE WILL BE THERE.

AND I THINK THE POINT THAT MR. UH, BROOKS IS MAKING IS AN INSTANCE WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE, THERE WERE TWO PRONGS TO THE CONFLICT.

THERE WAS THE ACTUAL, AND THEN THERE WAS THE HOW, AND THAT WAS THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY ASPECT.

AND SO EVEN IF IT IS NOT AN ACTUAL CONFLICT, YOU WOULDN'T WANT THAT CASE TO BE TAINTED.

SO WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR US TO, IF THAT COMES TO PASS, MOVE, TO HAVE THAT CASE POSTPONED TO THE NEXT HEARING SO THAT THEY COULD POSSIBLY HAVE A FULL PANEL? BECAUSE IF YOU WERE AT THE ACTUAL BOARD MEETING AND FEEL LIKE IT IS NECESSARY TO RECUSE BECAUSE OF THE APPEARANCE, HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT? UH, WELL, MY OPINION THEN WE'LL GO BRIEFLY TO YOU, MR. ELIASON, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA KEEP MOVING.

MY OPINION IS THE MEMBER THAT HAS A POTENTIAL CONFLICT DISCLOSES WHETHER IT'S POTENTIAL REAL.

I MEAN, IF IT'S A FRIENDSHIP, AND YOU, AND YOU CAN SAY ON THE RECORD, I KNOW NICK BROOKS AND HE'S A FRIEND OF MINE, BUT I WILL TELL THE BOARD, THE PANEL AND THE PUBLIC, WE HAVE NOT DISCUSSED THE CASE AND I HAVE AN ARM'S LENGTH RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM IN ORDER TO MAKE A FAIR AND JUST DECISION.

I THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT TO CREATE THAT THAT DEAL.

UH, I KNOW THAT'S WHAT I'VE SAID.

THE TIMES THAT SOMEONE, AN APPLICANT APPROACHED ME, I SAID, I WANT TO TESTIFY TO EVERYONE.

WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE CASE AND I STILL HAVE A CLEAR, UH, UM, ISSUE.

IS THAT SUFFICIENT? ABSOLUTELY.

NOW IT'S DIFFERENT IF IT'S A FAMILY MEMBER OR IF IT'S THE OWNERSHIP CRITERIA AND THAT SORT OF THING.

I, BECAUSE THE HEARING'S ALREADY BEEN CALLED AND THE PUBLIC'S BEEN NOTIFIED.

BRIEFLY, MR. AGNES, KEEP MOVING.

WOULD YOU TALK TO, AND WHEN WE WERE PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, YOU, YOU SPOKE TO IT, THE, THE POINT AT WHICH YOU STILL HAVE A DUTY TO SIT.

MM-HMM, .

AND WHAT I WAS ASKING YOU WAS, OKAY, DOES THE APPEARANCE ACTUALLY VIOLATE THE CODE OR IS IT A FUNCTION OF IF THERE'S AN APPEARANCE, THERE'S SOME THINGS YOU HAVE TO DO, BUT YOU HAVEN'T VIOLATED IT? THAT THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, BUT I'M ASKING YOU NOT TELLING IT'S A NO, BUT YOU'RE CORRECT.

AND IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AND IF YOU REMEMBER BACK BEFORE THERE WAS A SLIDE, UH, WITH THE DUCK OR THE RABBIT ON IT.

AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT IS TO SAY THERE IS A, YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT APPEARANCE.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER SLIDE IN THERE THAT DEALS WITH THIS THAT SAY YOU RECUSE YOURSELF WHEN YOU HAVE A CONFLICT, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CONFLICT, NOT THE APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT, BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE A DUTY TO DO YOUR JOB.

IMAGINE IF EVERY TIME IT MAYBE LOOKED LIKE YOU HAD A CONFLICT, AND LET'S SAY IT WAS A ZONING CASE, YOU MAYBE DIDN'T WANNA HAVE YOUR VOTE FINGERS ON, YOU KNOW, AND YOU SAY, OH, I'VE GOT A CONFLICT.

AND, AND THEN, THEN WE WOULDN'T GET ANY JOB DONE, UH, HERE AT THE BORDER FOR THE CITY.

SO WHEN IT'S AN APPEARANCE ISSUE, THEN YOU GET INTO THAT AREA WHERE YOU'RE MAKING THAT DISCLOSURE AND YOU'RE SAYING, I DON'T HAVE A CONFLICT, SO YOU CAN'T RECUSE YOURSELF.

BUT I DO WANNA MAKE THIS DISCLOSURE SO THAT LATER DOWN THE LINE, JUST HYPERBOLE SO YOU DON'T END UP ON THE, THE TOP FOLD OF THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS AND YOU MAKE THAT DISCLOSURE.

PUBLIC.

PUBLIC, YEAH, EXACTLY.

MR. SLATE, DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? I CRINGE AT HOLDING OVER 'CAUSE OF THAT.

UNLESS

[02:45:01]

I I, I'M HOPEFUL, MAYBE IDEALISTIC IS THAT WE'D CATCH IT BEFORE THE DAY OF THE HEARING, BUT S**T HAPPENS.

SO YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.

ACTUALLY, MR. FINNEY, UM, SO JUST TO CLARIFY, SO WHEN IS THE BEST TIME TO MAKE THIS DISC DISCLOSURE BEFORE THE HEARING? THE MOMENT YOU, THE MOMENT YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A CONFLICT, YOU SHOULD CALL YOUR, YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER, ROBERT SHERRY OR I, AND SAY, I POTENTIALLY HAVE A CONFLICT ON CASE NUMBER 1, 2, 3, 4.

THEY'RE GONNA ASK YOU, OKAY, DON'T TELL ME EVERYTHING, BUT TELL ME WHY.

ENOUGH FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO SAY, HMM, YES, YOU MAYBE DO.

AND THEN THEY WOULD CONTACT MYSELF JUST FROM A BOARD PERSPECTIVE AND MR. SAP TO SAY, WE HAVE IT, AND THEN LET THEM FLUSH OUT THE FURTHER DETAILS.

AND SO THEN IF IT TURNS OUT THAT IT IS NOT A, ACTUALLY A CONFLICT, DOES IT STILL GO ON THE RECORD THAT I BROUGHT IT UP TO YOU AS A POTENTIAL CONFLICT? YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, THERE'S NEVER, THERE'S NEVER A PROBLEM THAT I WOULD ESPOUSE FOR YOU TO SAY AT THE HEARING.

'CAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD MS. GABO OR MR. AGNES ARRIVED THAT THAT CAME UP.

THEY SHOULD JUST SAY, I JUST WANT FOR THE RECORD TO KNOW THAT I CONTACTED VICE CHAIR GABO AND, UH, CONVEYED A CONCERN AND THE DECISION OF THE CITY, OF THE, THE BOARD ATTORNEY WHO WILL CHOOSE TO, OR HOW TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE ETHICS DEPARTMENT, THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THAT IT'S NOT, AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU SAYING THAT.

AND MR. ELIASSON WILL WRITE YOU AN OPINION.

WELL, THAT TAKES A WEEK OR TWO WEEKS.

SO I'M, I'M NOT, I'M TRYING TO BE, HE WE'RE TALKING WITHIN THAT SEVEN DAY WINDOW OF YOU HEARING A CASE AND IT BEING LIVE.

SO THERE'S THE, I LOVE THE IDEA OF YOU, BUT I JUST DON'T WANT YOU TO BLINDSIDE YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER.

THAT'S WHY I KEEP SAYING RUN IT THROUGH YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER, IF I MAY.

MS. LAMB, FROM SOMEBODY THAT HAS EXPERIENCED WITH THE OPTICS OF, OF POTENTIALLY OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, BUT TRULY DIDN'T.

UM, I, UM, LEARNED THAT GETTING IT ON THE RECORD VOCALLY IS, IS ALWAYS THE BEST INTEREST, BUT ALSO PUTTING THINGS IN WRITING.

I HAD REACHED OUT TO A CITY, UH, THE BOARD ATTORNEY AT THAT TIME NOTICED THAT I HAD OWNED PROPERTY OUTSIDE OF THAT 500 OR 200 FOOT REPORTING ZONE, BUT IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE SITE AND HAVING IT IN WRITING THAT THERE WAS NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST OPINION FROM THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THE BOARD ATTORNEY, UM, WHEN AN ETHICS COMPLAINT WAS FILED AGAINST ME BECAUSE OF THE OPTICS, BUT NOT HAVING A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

UM, THOSE, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL FOR ME.

BUT TAKING IT ONE STEP FURTHER, I, I SHOULD HAVE PUT ON THE RECORD THAT, YOU KNOW, I OWN PROPERTY AROUND HERE.

IT'S NOT IN THE REPORTING ZONE.

SO YOU CAN NEVER COMMUNICATE TOO MUCH IN A PUBLIC FORUM ABOUT THE APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, BUT ALSO, ONCE AGAIN, GET IT IN WRITING FROM THE BOARD ATTORNEY, UM, IN TERMS OF AN OPINION TO PROTECT YOURSELF.

SO IT'LL CERTAINLY SAVE YOU A LOT OF TROUBLE DOWN THE LINE JUST TO SIMPLY DISCLOSE EVEN KEEP GOING, EVEN IF YOU'VE GOT THAT, KEEP GOING.

SO BUMPING INTO A CONFLICT TIME FROM THE TIME OF RECOGNITION, IMMEDIATELY REFRAIN, PROMPTLY DISCLOSE.

OKAY, NOW WE GET TO, UH, WHAT MR. AGNES WAS BRINGING UP, ADVISORY OPINIONS.

UM, YOU CAN ASK, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND YOU CAN ASK ME AND RACHEL, WHO'S RIGHT HERE.

WE, WE DRAFT A LOT OF THESE FOREIGN AN ADVISORY OPINION.

UH, WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU'RE NOT SURE IF THERE'S A CONFLICT OR NOT, AND YOU WANT THAT PIECE OF PAPER THAT SAYS WHETHER THERE IS SO AS LONG AND HERE'S HOW IT WORKS, AS LONG AS IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING YOU'RE GONNA DO IN THE FUTURE.

YOU GIVE US ALL THE FACTS, YOU FOLLOW OUR ADVICE, YOU'VE GOT A SAFE HARBOR.

IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG, IT'S UP TO YOU.

THE PAPER IS YOURS.

NOBODY KNOWS YOU EVEN HAVE IT.

IT'S CONFIDENTIAL.

BUT IF YOU NEED TO PULL IT OUT AND SAY, LOOK, I'VE GOT THIS PIECE OF PAPER, YOU'LL HAVE IT.

NOW OUR GOAL IS TO GET THAT OUT IN 10 BUSINESS DAYS, BUT WE CAN DO IT FASTER AND WE'LL, WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO DO THAT.

SO DON'T FAIL TO ASK FOR AN ADVISORY OPINION IF YOU THINK YOU NEED ONE, JUST BECAUSE, WELL, IT USUALLY TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME.

OUR, I'M JUST TRYING TO, TO BE REALISTIC YEAH.

THAT OUR AGENDA COMES OUT SEVEN DAYS PRIOR.

I WISH EVERY BOARD MEMBER HERE READS THEIR AGENDA THE DAY, FIRST DAY THAT MARY SENDS IT TO US.

BUT THE REALITY, I'M JUST SAYING THE, THE NARROW TIMEFRAME, SO YEP, YEP.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS YOU ELEVATE THE ISSUE TO YOUR VICE CHAIR AND LET THEM INTERPRET THAT, AND THEN BE THE INTERFACE TO GET AN ANSWER QUICKLY.

SO YOU CAN ALWAYS CALL ME UP.

THERE'S AN EMAIL ADDRESS ON HERE IF YOU WANT TO EMAIL IT.

UM, THE COMPLAINT PROCESS.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THINGS GO WRONG.

AND THESE ARE THE DUTIES THAT APPLY TO ALL OF US WHEN THERE IS A VIOLATION.

AND IT'S JUST GOOD FOR YOU TO KNOW WHO CAN FILE A REPORT, A RESIDENT CITY OFFICIAL EMPLOYEE, EMPLOYEE, OR PEOPLE DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY.

WE HAVE AN ANONYMOUS HOTLINE THAT THEY CAN CALL BY WEB LINK BY PHONE, BY QR CODE.

IT GOES TO A THIRD PARTY AND GOES TO MR. BEAVER'S AND THE INSPECTOR

[02:50:01]

GENERAL'S OFFICE.

THEY MAY DEAL WITH IT AS A VIOLATION.

IF IT'S NOT A VIOLATION, THEY'RE LIKELY TO REFER THAT OFF WHEREVER IT NEEDS TO GO.

WHEN THERE, THERE IS A VIOLATION.

WE ALL HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT.

IF WE HAVE A CONFLICT, WE HAVE A DUTY TO RECUSE.

IF THERE'S INVESTIGATION, WE HAVE TO COOPERATE AND WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT INVESTIGATION CONFIDENTIAL.

WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT.

IF YOU GIVE A SWORN STATEMENT, OBVIOUSLY IT'S GOTTA BE TRUTHFUL.

YOU HAVE TO AVOID INTERFERENCE WITH INVESTIGATIONS.

AND FINALLY, YOU CAN'T RETALIATE AGAINST PEOPLE THAT DO COOPERATE.

SO THOSE ARE ALL THE DUTIES THAT HAPPEN WHEN THINGS GO WRONG.

NOW, WE'RE AT QUESTION AND ANSWER TIME, AND SO I CAN, WE CAN, UH, DEAL WITH THIS HOWEVER YOU WANT.

WHAT I HAVE IN THE REST OF THE, OF THE PRESENTATION IS WE GO A LITTLE BIT DEEPER WITH EACH RULE.

AND WHAT I CAN DO IS START RUNNING THROUGH THAT.

YOU CAN GO THROUGH IT, BUT DON'T READ EVERYTHING.

I WON'T READ EVERYTHING, JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST BEG THE QUESTION.

AND THEN SEE IF YOU GET, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, THEN I'LL ENTERTAIN THAT.

OTHERWISE, JUST KEEP GOING.

YOU'VE GOT PAGE 51, 52, 53, YOUR SLIDES 28 THAT TALK VERY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT STUFF.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT LEAST WHAT WAS IN OUR PACKET.

AND THERE, I'VE, I'VE ADDED A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION TO THE PRESENTATION THAT YOU'RE SEEING.

I WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE PROVIDED WITH THIS POWERPOINT.

IT'S NOT THAT MUCH, BUT I HAVE ADDED SOME THINGS, UH, ESPECIALLY FROM SECTION EIGHT OF THE CODE THAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE FOR YOU TO HAVE IN YOUR BACK POCKET.

THIS PRESENTATION WILL BE LIKE, UH, CLIFF NOTES FOR YOU MORE ON CIVILITY.

YOU CAN READ THAT FOR YOURSELF.

SECTION EIGHT AND SECTION 12, DEAL WITH THAT SPECIFICALLY.

I'M JUST KEEPING AN EYE ON YOU ALL AVOIDING INTERFERENCE.

I THINK WE'VE DEALT WITH THAT, UH, PRETTY WELL.

THERE'S SEVERAL.

WHEN IS IT BEST TO KEEP QUIET, UH, CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION GAINED BY REASON OF YOUR POSITION? UH, I PUT IN THE BOTTOM SENTENCE, THIS INCLUDES WHAT HAPPENS IN MEETINGS CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC, INCLUDING THE CERTIFIED AGENDA RECORDING OR TOPICS DISCUSSED.

THEY CANNOT TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

THAT'S CONFIDENTIAL.

EX PARTE IS NOT OKAY.

THIS IS A REALLY EASY RULE OF, UH, FOR YOU ALL YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL.

THAT MEANS THIS RULE APPLIES TO YOU.

AND WHAT IT SAYS IS, AND YOU CAN LOOK HOW BROAD THE RULE IS, IS YOU CAN'T, DON'T TALK ABOUT THESE ZONING CASES WITH ANYBODY AT ANY TIME, UNLESS YOU'RE IN, IN THE PUBLIC FORUM LIKE THIS.

YOU FOLLOW THAT RULE, YOU'LL, YOU'LL BE IN GOOD SHAPE.

NOW, THERE IS A SITUATION HAVING TO DO WITH WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.

MAYBE YOU NEED SOME SOMETHING FROM A CITY STAFF PERSON, BUT IN GENERAL, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT THESE ZONING CASES.

UH, HERE'S MORE FOR BOARDS.

IT'S JUST REITERATING THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU NOT TALK ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS HERE ON THE BOARD.

PERSONAL BENEFIT TO OTHERS.

UH, THIS IS REALLY ABOUT, UH, IT'S REALLY BRIBERY.

THIS IS A BRIBERY STATUTE.

SO I HOPE WE NEVER FIND YOURSELF THERE.

I DON'T THINK YOU WILL, BUT YOU CAN'T CUT A DEAL THAT'S GONNA BENEFIT A RELATIVE OR A BUSINESS PARTNER OR THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

UH, IN, IN A TRADE FOR HOW YOU'RE GONNA VOTE HERE, THIS IS ONE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA FIND CONFLICTS, UH, IF YOU OR A RELATIVE HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IN A BUSINESS.

AND WHAT THAT IS, IS DEFINED THERE.

ALSO, ON THE NEXT SLIDE, WHICH IS MISSING FROM YOUR POWERPOINT, WOULD, WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU GO, THERE'S ONE IN HERE THAT, THAT I REALLY FOUND HELPFUL.

IT'S NOT JUST 10%.

IF IT'S OVER $15,000, YES, THAT COUNTS.

SO YES.

SO IT'S 10% OR MORE OF VOTING STOCK OR SHARES OR OWN 10% OR MORE, OR 15,000 OF THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OF A BUSINESS OR FUNDS RECEIVED FROM THAT BUSINESS EXCEED 10% OF YOUR GROSS INCOME THE, THE PREVIOUS YEAR.

I THINK YOU HAVE A QUESTION.

THERE IS A SECTION IN THE CODE, IT'S 12 A 14, DON'T GO INTO IT.

MR. HAITZ, UM, MR. LYSON, UH, CAN YOU CLARIFY THE APPLICATIONS OF THESE RULES AS TO BEFORE WE HAVE A MATTER WE'RE DISCUSSING VERSUS AFTER IT'S ALREADY BEEN ADJUDICATED? I NEED TO GET BACK WITH YOU ON THAT QUESTION.

CERTAINLY BEFORE YOU HAVE A CONFLICT AND YOU NEED TO BRING THAT UP AND RECUSE YOURSELF AFTERWARDS.

I BELIEVE WHAT THE ANSWER IS GONNA BE IS THERE'S A, THERE'S GONNA BE A TIME LIMIT.

10 DAYS, IS IT 10 DAYS? OUR, OUR DECISIONS ARE FINAL AFTER 10 DAYS OF, UH, OUR DECISION.

BUT THEN THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE A LENGTH OF TIME AFTER THAT WHEN YOU, YOU SHOULD NOT BE GETTING INVOLVED WITH THAT BUSINESS BECAUSE YOU MADE A, A DECISION IN THEIR BEHALF.

AND I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ABOUT THAT, BUT I BELIEVE THERE IS, AND I BELIEVE IT'S A YEAR, BUT I NEED TO LOOK IT UP.

WELL, THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA FALL UNDER DON'T, DON'T MAKE A DEAL AHEAD OF TIME.

IF YOU HAVEN'T MADE A DEAL AHEAD OF TIME, THEN YOU'RE JUST DEALING WITH MAYBE IT LOOKS BAD AND YOU GOTTA MAKE THAT DECISION.

[02:55:01]

WE ARE RUNNING OUTTA TIME HERE THAT ADDRESSES, I GOTTA KEEP US GOING.

SO FIRST OF ALL, WHEN WE MAKE A DECISION, UH, PRIOR TO THE CASE AND 10 DAYS AFTER THE DECISION, YOU, YOU STILL SHOULDN'T BE TALKING TO ANYONE ABOUT THE CASE BECAUSE THE CASE COULD BE APPEALED.

AND IF IT GETS APPEALED TO A STATE JUDGE, HE COULD SEND IT BACK TO THE PANEL AND THEY'RE, YOUR, YOUR, SO IT'S STILL A LIVE CASE.

SO MY RULE OF THUMB ALWAYS IS 10 DAYS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S OUR WINDOW OF CONE OF SILENCE AND WE'RE GONNA HIT ON THAT RULE.

IT'S COMING RIGHT UP.

THIS ALSO APPLIES IN THE NEXT SLIDE TO PROPERTY.

IF YOU, UH, HAVE AN EQUITABLE OR LEGAL OWNERSHIP OR A RELATIVE DOES, AND THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OF THAT IS $2,500 OR MORE ACQUISITION OF INTEREST, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UM, IF YOU KNOW, UH, THAT SOMETHING IS GONNA BE AFFECTED BY YOUR DECISION OR IT HAS BEEN, THEN UH, YOU'VE GOT A PERIOD OF ONE YEAR AFTER THE DATE OF OFFICIAL ACTION THAT YOU CAN BE INVOLVED IN THAT.

NOW, I WILL MAKE THIS COMMENT, UH, AND CONFIRM PLEASE FOR ME, BECAUSE THE COUNCIL HAS CREATED THREE PANELS OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND BECAUSE EACH PANEL HEARS CASES SEPARATELY FROM OTHERS, IF A CASE IS HEARD BY PANEL C AND YOU'RE ON PANEL A, YOU'RE NOT CONFLICTED.

YOU'RE NOT CONFLICTED BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY, YOU HAVE NO VOTE, YOU HAVE NO BASIS.

UH, AM I CORRECT? NO.

HOW SO? I I, SO 12 A 14 A ONE, A BOARD MEMBER, WHICH AS YOU ALL MAY NOT ACQUIRE AN INTEREST, ECONOMIC OR OTHERWISE IN ANY MATTER PART B, AFFECTED BY AN OFFICIAL ACTION OF THE CITY, NOT JUST A DIFFERENT BOARD FOR A PERIOD OF ONE YEAR AFTER THE DATE OF THE OFFICIAL ACTION.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN? LIKE, LIKE THE CITY COUNCIL MAKES SOMETHING, UH, YOU KNOW, OR DO YOU MEAN ANY CITY OFFICIAL? IT'S, UH, 12 A 14 OF OFFICIAL ACTION OF THE CITY.

THAT COULD MEAN ANY BOARD.

THAT COULD MEAN THE COUNCIL.

SO THAT ESSENTIALLY MEANS BY VIRTUE OF BEING A BOARD MEMBER, I MAY NOT ACQUIRE AN INTEREST IN ANY MANNER THAT THE CITY IN ANY FORM, INCLUDING THE COUNCILORS, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT.

IS THAT REALLY TRUE? I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THAT IS, I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT.

AND THAT'S TRUE.

I JUST NEED TO KNOW IT.

BUT THAT'S, I'VE NEVER HEARD OR SEEN THAT INTERPRETED THAT WAY BEFORE.

I MEAN, I THINK IT SPEAKS TO APPEARANCE AS WELL.

WELL, WELL, BUT WELL, BUT THIS COULD INCLUDE LIKE GETTING A BUILDING PERMIT.

LIKE I CAN'T BUY A HOUSE THAT HAS A BUILDING PERMIT ISSUED IN THE LAST YEAR.

THAT THAT CAN'T BE WHAT THE RULE MEANS.

THAT CANNOT, I JUST CANNOT.

THAT'S TOO SWEEPING.

ALRIGHT, WE HAVE TO KEEP GOING BECAUSE I NEED TO GET THE CITY ATTORNEY'S VERSION, THE, THE NEXT PRESENTATION COMING THEREAFTER.

SO MAYBE YOU CAN COME BACK TO IT FOR CLARIFICATION.

YEAH, I, I REALLY WANT TO KNOW, KNOW.

SO WHAT I, I WANNA REINFORCE IS THAT WE, WE SHOULD NEVER DISCUSS A CASE PRIOR TO A HEARING NOR 10 DAYS AFTERWARDS.

BUT IF, IF, UH, IF YOU'RE SITTING ON PANEL A AND PANEL B OR C HAVE A CASE OR B OR C HAVE A CASE, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE NOT PART OF THAT, THAT ADJUDICATION THERE, I CANNOT SEE HOW THERE WOULD BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT A PARTY TO THAT DECISION MAKING PROCESS.

BUT I'D SURE LIKE TO HEAR IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM THE GUY.

I I'LL DO THIS SO WE CAN MOVE ALONG.

I WILL WRITE A GENERAL ADVISORY OPINION ON THIS ISSUE.

SEND IT TO ME AND THEN I'LL CIRCULATE IT.

I, I HATE TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE ALREADY DRAGGING RECIPROCAL FAVORS.

YOU, YOU DON'T NEED ME TO TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN'T MAKE, DO, MAKE DECISIONS FOR FAVORS, UH, BENEFITS TO PREVIOUS EMPLOYERS.

THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT MAY SURPRISE YOU.

IF YOU, IT'S A PREVIOUS EMPLOYER IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS, YOU, YOU ARE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS ON ZONING CASES FOR THEM.

, THIS IS SPECIFIC TO YOU ALL.

IT'S INTERNAL, BUT BUT AGAIN, ELIAS, UH, MR. ELIASSON, THAT IS PANEL SPECIFIC HEARING THE CASE.

CORRECT? BECAUSE IF MR. IF DR. GLOVER SITS ON A PANEL THAT HAS THE CASE, THAT DOES NOT PRECLUDE MR. BROOKS FROM DOING WHAT IT 'CAUSE HE WASN'T PART OF THAT CASE.

I JUST WANT CLARITY OF THAT.

THIS IS NOT THE, THE BROAD ONE, LIKE THE, LIKE THE OTHER, BECAUSE THERE IS A MISCONCEPTION OUT THERE THAT ONE OR TWO OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS CAN ATTEST TO.

THAT JUST 'CAUSE YOU'RE ON THE BOARD MEANS THAT, THAT, THAT THAT APPLIES TO YOU.

IT IT APPLIES TO THOSE THAT ARE ON THE PANEL THAT HEARD THE REQUEST.

AND IT'S JUST THE WAY THE CODE IS, IS WRITTEN.

IT'S SPECIFICALLY IS ABOUT YOUR PERFORMANCE OF YOUR DUTY AS A CITY OFFICIAL AREA OF NOTIFICATION CONFLICTS, UH, WE'RE BACK TO 12 A 14 A FOUR CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN A MATTER IF YOU HAVE AN OWNERSHIP

[03:00:01]

INTEREST.

NOW, WHAT'S IMPORTANT HERE IS I'VE TALKED ABOUT HAVING A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IN A BUSINESS OR PROPERTY NOTICE.

I JUST WANT YOU TO NOTICE THIS PROVISION DOESN'T LIMIT YOU TO HAVING A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST.

SO IT'S A LITTLE FLAVOR OF DIFFERENCE, BUT IT COULD MEAN A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR YOU IF YOU'RE ONLY EVALUATING SOMETHING BASED ON A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST.

CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN A MATTER IF YOU HAVE AN OWNERSHIP INTEREST LEASE OR OTHER ECO ECONOMIC INTEREST IN A PROPERTY.

SO THIS ISN'T DEALING WITH BUSINESS, IT'S DEALING WITH PROPERTY WITHIN THE AREA OF NOTIFICATION.

AND IT LISTS THESE, UH, THREE SECTIONS THAT I THINK YOU ALL GO THROUGH.

THERE'S ALSO A, A DEFINITION IN THERE ABOUT WHAT AN ECONOMIC INTEREST INCLUDES, AND IT'S PRETTY BROAD.

I'LL PAUSE FOR A MINUTE FOR YOU TO CHECK OUT THAT SLIDE.

OKAY? YEAH.

WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA FINISH UP IN THE NEXT MINUTE OUTSIDE EMPLOYMENT.

UM, NOT GONNA WORRY ABOUT THAT.

NOW, GIFTS ON NOVEMBER THE 15TH, I'M GONNA DO A SPECIAL LUNCH AND LEARN TRAINING ON GIFTS.

THAT'S REALLY WHERE YOU NEED TO BE IF YOU'RE CONFUSED ABOUT IT.

NO WAY TO TO COVER THIS, BUT THERE, WELL, TODAY'S THE DEADLINE FOR FILING YOUR GIFT REPORT FOR THE LAST QUARTER.

IT WAS YESTERDAY.

WAS IT YESTERDAY? OKAY.

SO EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE FILED THEIR GIFT REPORT AND DISCLOSING THAT.

SO NOVEMBER 15TH IS TWO WEEKS TOO LATE, BUT, SO HOPEFULLY EVERYONE'S FILED THAT.

IF NOT, GO TO THE CITY SECRETARY WHEN WE TAKE LUNCH.

OKAY? AND MR. BROOKS, I'LL GIVE YOU A A HINT, THERE'S SOME CONFUSION ABOUT THIS.

EVEN IF, UH, FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE, AND I BELIEVE YOU QUALIFY EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T GET A GIFT.

NO, YOU HAVE TO FILE IT WITH THE CHECK MARK.

YOU HAVE TO FILE IT AND SAY IT.

MR. BROOKS.

I HAVE A GIFT DISCLOSURE REPORT RELATED QUESTION.

I'M LOOKING AT THE REPORT.

IT'S A QUARTERLY REPORT.

IT SAYS, THESE ARE ALL THE GIFTS THAT YOU'VE GOTTEN IN THE LAST QUARTER.

THEN LATER IT SAYS, PLEASE LIST EACH GIFT OR ACCUMULATED GIFT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, FOR THE LAST YEAR.

SO THE FORM SAYS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

AND WHEN I'M SIGNING SOMETHING THAT I'M SWEARING THAT IT'S ACCURATE, I GET VERY NERVOUS WHEN IT SAYS, GOOD FOR YOU FOR CATCHING THAT THREE.

IT SAYS THREE MONTHS AND A YEAR.

SO I CAN EXPLAIN THAT.

AND VERY BRIEFLY, BRIEFLY, YES.

VERY, VERY BRIEFLY, YOU HAVE TO REPORT GIFTS, $300 IN OVER.

BUT IF, IF, LET'S SAY THE CHAIRMAN GIVES ME, UH, $50 EVERY MONTH, AND BEFORE, OR MORE THAN THAT.

LET'S SAY YOU GIVE, OH, CUMULATIVE, YEAH.

$200 A MONTH.

AND THAT ADDS UP TO OVER 300.

YOU HAVE TO REPORT THAT.

NOW, THE QUESTION IS WHAT? OVER WHAT? OVER WHAT TIMEFRAME? AND THAT IS A CALENDAR YEAR, SO FROM JANUARY ONE.

SO THE WAY YOU FIGURE THAT OUT IS I GOTTA FIGURE OUT HOW MANY TIMES I'VE GOTTEN A GIFT BEGINNING JANUARY ONE UNTIL NOW, AND THEN YOU REPORT THAT.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? OKAY.

SO FOR THE TRAILING YEAR, EVERY TIME I SUBMIT A QUARTERLY GIFT DISCLOSURE REPORT, IF I, IF IT'S THE THIRD QUARTER, IF I GOT $300 IN JANUARY, I WOULD REPORT IT FOR Q ONE, Q TWO, Q THREE, AND Q FOUR.

NOW YOU, YOU JUST REPORT THE GIFTS YOU GOT IN THE QUARTER.

BUT IF IN A LATER QUARTER, THE SUM OF THE GIFTS FROM ONE PERSON EXCEEDED 300, THEN YOU REPORT THAT.

IF YOU, IF YOU, AND IT'S A, THE FORM IS CONFUSING, AND I THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD LOOK AT THE FORM.

SO LIKE, IF YOU GOT A HUNDRED DOLLARS IN JANUARY IS A GIFT, AND THEN AGAIN IN Q TWO, AND THEN AGAIN IN Q THREE, ALL OF A SUDDEN Q THREE.

NOW THAT'S TH $300 MARK.

SO YOU REPORT IT IN Q THREE, EVEN THOUGH YOU, AND REMEMBER, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A GIFT FROM A FAMILY MEMBER OR A, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A, A GIFT THAT QUALIFIES.

TICKETS, SUBJECT TO DISCLOSURE TICKETS, STUFF LIKE THAT.

I, I I UNDERSTAND.

IT'S JUST, IT SAYS A QUARTER AND THEN IT SAYS REPORT EVERYTHING WITHIN THE LAST TWO.

HE'S TALKING TO THE CUMULATIVE EFFECT.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT SAYS.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE FORM SAYS.

WE'RE WORKING ON THE FORM.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S ON THE FORM ALSO THAT WE'RE TAKING OFF IS THE AFFIDAVIT.

THESE FORMS DON'T NEED TO BE SWORN, SO YOU CAN STOP DOING THAT EVEN THOUGH IT'S ON THE FORM.

AND WE'RE GETTING THAT PULLED OFF THE FORM.

WE ARE AT THE END.

I THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION.

MS. DAVIS, QUICK QUESTION.

SORRY TO RUSH YOU, BUT I'VE GOT THIS, THEY'RE, THEY'RE CHEWING ON MY HEELS, AND THEN I'VE GOT FOUR O'CLOCK IN MY BACK OF MY HEAD.

IS THERE ANY WAY, UH, IN ORDER TO STREAMLINE THINGS, IF YOU HAVE NOT TAKEN A GIFT, THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO FILL OUT THE FORM, THAT YOU ONLY FILL OUT THE FORM IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO REPORT, THERE'S NO WAY TO CHANGE THAT? NOPE.

IT'S, IT'S BLACK AND WHITE IN THE CODE.

A FORM YOU FILL OUT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY TO ACTUALLY, TO RECORD THAT, BUT YOUR FIRST CONTACT IS THROUGH YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER SO THAT WE CAN GET THE PANEL PROPERLY STAFFED WITH AN ALTERNATE IF THERE'S A CONFLICT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. ELIASSON? HE PROVIDED A CHEAT SHEET AND A BUSINESS CARD.

I WANNA REINFORCE TO BOARD MEMBERS, IF YOU ARE IN A SITUATION, UH, EITHER BEFORE A HEARING OR AT A HEARING WHERE YOU THINK YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, YOUR FIRST CONTACT IS YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER, THEY WILL THEN ASSIST YOU COORDINATING WITH THE BOARD ATTORNEY AND OR HIS OFFICE IN ORDER TO CLARIFY THAT.

OF COURSE, THERE'S

[03:05:01]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. LYSON.

VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

THANK YOU ALL.

NEXT ON OUR AGENDA TODAY IS A PRESENTATION FROM OUR BOARD ATTORNEY, UH, THE, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

TAKE IT AWAY, MR. SAPP.

THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.

I'LL MOVE THROUGH THESE SLIDES RATHER QUICKLY.

AND YOU GUYS JUST RAPID FIRE QUESTIONS.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE NOT, I'M PRESSING BECAUSE I'M SEEING FOUR O'CLOCK IN MY HEAD ALREADY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'M CUTTING OFF ANY QUESTIONS, SO JUST GET MY ATTENTION AS QUESTIONS MAY COME.

THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.

NO, SIR.

UM, SO FIRSTLY, I JUST WANTED TO DISCUSS THE ROLES REAL QUICK.

EVERYBODY FAMILIAR WITH THE ROLES, THE APPLICANT'S ROLES TO INITIATE THE APPLICATION? THEY, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THEM STAFF'S ROLE.

THEY'RE BASICALLY A CONDUIT.

PUT IT IN A NICE PACKAGE, DELIVER IT TO THE BOARD.

THE BOARD'S ROLE IS TO ABSORB THE INFORMATION BROUGHT BEFORE THE BOARD.

AND, UH, YOU GUYS CAN ASK QUESTIONS, ELICIT INFORMATION, BETTER UNDERSTAND THE APPLICATION, BUT THEN YOU NEED TO APPLY THE APPLICABLE STANDARD BALANCE, ALL THE RELEVANT, RELEVANT TO COME, EXCUSE ME, THE RELEVANT EVIDENCE TO COME TO YOUR CONCLUSION.

UM, HOUSE BILL 14, THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, HOW MANY CASES ARE BECOMING FOR THE BOARD AND, AND WHETHER WE'RE OVERWHELMED OR NOT.

UM, HOUSE BILL 14 DOESN'T DIRECTLY AFFECT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BUT IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO AFFECT THE CASELOAD THAT COMES BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

ESSENTIALLY, HOUSE BILL 14 IS A, ALLOWS A THIRD PARTY CONTRACTOR TO DO THE INSPECTIONS OR, UM, APPROVALS OF DOCUMENTS WHEN IT'S PLA PLATS PLANS OR DEVELOPMENT PERMITS.

SO THEY HAVE 30 DAYS.

IF THEY DON'T MEET THE 30 DAYS, WHEN I SAY THEY, I MEAN THE, THE CITY AGENCY THAT'S REGULATING THAT, THEY DON'T, DON'T MEET THE 30 DAYS, THEN THE PRIVATE ENTITY CAN REQUEST.

SO, MR. SAPP, IN YOUR PRESENTATION, IT SAYS, BY THE 15TH DAY AFTER THE PRESCRIBED, AFTER THE DATE PRESCRIBED FOR APPROVAL, RIGHT? SO THEY HAVE 30 DAYS, WHAT IS THE DATE PRESCRIBED FOR APPROVAL? THE 30 DAYS IS THE DATE PRESCRIBED BY APPROVAL, 30 DAYS FROM DAYS.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, 30 DAYS FROM APPLICATION FOR PLATTS PLANS AND DEVELOPMENT PERMITS.

DOES THAT APPLY TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPEALS? IT DOES NOT APPLY TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPEALS.

OKAY, SO FOUR, FIVE DAYS TOTAL.

ADDITIONAL, OH, I MISSPOKE.

SO IT'S 45 DAYS IS THE, UH, DATE PRESCRIBED PLUS 15 DAYS FOR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPEALS? NO, FOR PLATS PLANS AND DEVELOPMENT PERMITS.

SO THOSE WON'T AFFECT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DIRECTLY, BUT THE WAY IT'LL AFFECT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DIRECTLY IS BECAUSE WE'LL BE THE, IT ALLOWS THE PRIVATE ENTITY TO POTENTIALLY USE A THIRD PARTY ENTITY.

AND BECAUSE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A QUALITY CONTROLLED ISSUE, I CAN'T ANTICIPATE HOW ACCURATE THE, UH, INSPECTIONS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE WILL BE DONE.

SO THAT MEANS THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR ERRORS AND VIOLATIONS THAT CAN BE CAUGHT BY CODE PLUMP COMPLIANCE AND INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF CASES THAT COME BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

THAT'S WHY THIS PARTICULAR BILL IS PARTICULARLY RELEVANT.

SO IT WOULD COME AS A, AS AN AO APPEAL, AS ANY TYPE OF APPEAL.

IF THEY GOT AN INSPECTION DONE THAT, AND THEN THEY'VE BUILT SOMETHING THAT WE REDEEM AS AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE CODE COMPLIANCE WOULD DINGING IT.

THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT CODE COMPLIANCE IS FINDING AND THEN POTENTIALLY COME BEFORE THE BOARD.

UM, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, THE GOAL IS TO GET THOSE CASES DONE BY 15 DAYS.

AND SO THERE'S POTENTIALLY, UH, IT IDEALLY WILL HAVE LITTLE IM IMPACT.

UM, LET'S SEE, WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? SO, THE SOURCES OF AUTHORITY, THE, YOU KNOW, WE, MR. AGNIS CAME UP WITH A GREAT, UH, ACRONYM.

I LOVE ACRONYMS. IT HELPS YOU REMEMBER THINGS.

HE TALKED ABOUT THE OLD SHOE BRAND VANS.

AND SO TO HELP REMEMBER THE THINGS THAT CAN COME BEFORE THE VOID, IT'S VANS, WHICH IS V FOR VARIANCES, A FOR APPEALS OF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIALS IN FOR NONCONFORMING USES AND S FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.

THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A QUICK, EASY WAY TO REMEMBER THAT.

OH, THAT WAS WELL DONE, ROBERT.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT CREDIT FOR THAT OR NOT, BUT, OKAY, GO AHEAD.

WHICH IS A WAY TO GO THROUGH AND WOULD YOU GO BACK ONE CLICK PLEASE.

UM, IN REGARDS TO VARIANCES, YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THOSE? THERE'S THREE ELEMENTS.

IT'S THAT IT'S NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST THAT'S NECESSARY TO PERMIT DEVELOPERS A SPECIFIC PARCEL OF LAND THAT HAS A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE, AND THAT IT NOT BE GRANTED TO RELIEVE A SELF-CREATED OR PERSONAL HARDSHIP.

UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I NOTICED THAT WHEN I'M SITTING NEXT TO YOU GUYS, AND I'M DOING THE ANALYSIS IN MY HEAD AS WELL, AND, UH, OFTEN I HAVE A TENDENCY TO WANT TO EYEBALL THE SITUATION AND KIND OF LOOK AT IT AND NOT GIVE IT A REAL METHODICAL APPROACH, BUT JUST KIND OF EYEBALL IT.

AND I FIND THAT SOMETIMES I'LL MISS AN ELEMENT OR MISS SOMETHING THAT, UH, DOESN'T, ISN'T READILY, UH, APPARENT.

SO DANIEL AND I, WE SAT DOWN AND WE TRIED TO COME UP WITH A PR, WHAT WE CALL A PRACTICAL VARIANCE ANALYSIS,

[03:10:01]

AND I I WANNA REITERATE THIS, IT REQUIRES ALL THREE.

THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

SO IT'S A AND TEST, IT'S NOT ONE AND TWO OR ONE AND THREE OR TWO AND THREE.

IT REQUIRES ALL THREE, CORRECT.

SO IT REQUIRES ALL THREE OF THEM FOR A POSITIVE, UH, OUTCOME.

AND WHEN I SAY POSITIVE OUTCOME, I MEAN, UH, TO, TO GRANT THE VARIANCE.

OKAY? UM, SO EVEN THOUGH THE CODE LISTS THE ELEMENTS IN 1, 2, 3 ORDER, WE THINK IT'S BEST TO ANALYZE THEM IN 2, 3, 1 ORDER.

SO FIRST, YOU'RE GONNA WANNA ANALYZE ELEMENT TWO TO DETERMINE IF THERE IS A HARDSHIP.

THAT'S THE AREA SHAPE AND SLOPE ONE.

SECONDLY, YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO ANALYZE ELEMENT THREE TO DETERMINE IF THE HARDSHIP IS SELF-CREATED.

UH, AND THEN LASTLY, YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO ANALYZE ELEMENT ONE TO DETERMINE IF THE REQUEST IS CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.

SO WHEN I FIRST STARTED LOOKING AT THE VARIANCE, UH, LANGUAGE, I THOUGHT THAT THE, THE MOST DIFFICULT ELEMENT TO MEET WAS THE ONE WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT AREA, SHAPE, AND SLOPE.

THAT WAS THE HARD ONE.

AFTER DOING THIS ANALYSIS, I THINK THE HARDEST PART IS DETERMINING WHETHER IT'S SELF-CREATED OR NOT.

UH, SO MOVING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE LANGUAGE FOR THE, THE SECOND ELEMENT, WHICH IS I, WHAT, WHAT WE THINK IS THE FIRST ELEMENT THAT YOU SHOULD ANALYZE IS THAT IT NOT BE OF A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE.

AND THEN THE, THAT IT CANNOT BE DEVELOPED IN A MANNER COMMENSURATE WITH LAND DEVELOPMENT UPON OTHER PARCELS OF LAND WITHIN THE SAME ZONING.

SO THAT SAME ZONING LANGUAGE IS PARTICULARLY KEY BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT PARTICULAR ZONING FOR THAT, THE CLASSIFICATION FOR THAT ZONING.

SO IF IT'S R SEVEN FIVE A, YOU WANNA LOOK AT R SEVEN FIVE A ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY.

IF IT'S R FIVE, YOU WANNA LOOK AT R FIVE AND ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY, NOT JUST IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO WHEN YOU'RE ANALYZING AREA, AGAIN, YOU'RE GONNA WANNA FIRST, HOLD ON A SECOND.

SIRAM, I WANT EVERYONE TO ABSORB THAT TOO OFTEN WE HAVE CASES THAT COME TO US, AND THE COMPARISON BECOMES WHAT'S GOING ON NEXT DOOR.

THE LOTS, THE SHAPE DOWN THE STREET IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE CODE SAYS IT'S WITHIN THE ZONING DISTRICT THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

NOW, IT STILL GOES BACK TO THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS OF THE PANEL, BUT THE CRITERIA ACCORDING TO THE CODE IS THE ZONING DISTRICT THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

HOWEVER, THEY LEAVE IT UP TO US TO DEFINE COMMENSURATE, RIGHT? YES, CORRECT.

IT'S, IT'S STILL THE DISCRETION OF THE PANEL.

OKAY, I JUST WANNA REINFORCE THAT BECAUSE THAT, 'CAUSE WE SOMETIMES, AND THIS INCLUDES MYSELF, YOU PUT THE BLINDERS ON IN THE STREET, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE STREET? WELL, REALLY, SO CERTAINLY, AND IT GETS TRICKY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS TO THE STANDARD IS THAT IT AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

SO FOR THOSE ONES, YOU DO WANNA USE A NARROW SCOPE AND LOOK AT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

HOWEVER, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT VARIANCES SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS, UH, LANGUAGE, FOR ELEMENT TWO, WHICH IS THE ONE THAT WE THINK YOU SHOULD ANALYZE FIRST, UM, THE AREA IS THE Z COMMENSURATE WITH ZONING ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY.

SO YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION THAT'S PRESENTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.

SO IF IT'S R FIVE, THAT'S 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.

R SEVEN FIVE IS 7,500 SQUARE FOOT LOT YOU GUYS CAN READ.

I'M NOT GONNA KEEP READING THOSE, BUT YOU UNDERSTAND, YOU AN FIRST, YOU DETERMINE WHAT THE ZONING IS, HOW MUCH THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE IS.

THE SECOND ONE IS, I'M GONNA START, SOMETIMES IT'S IN THE, UH, STAFF REPORTS, BUT WE'RE GONNA START REQUESTING THAT.

THE, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE OF EACH LOT IS PUT IN THE STAFF REPORT SO THAT YOU GUYS HAVE A REAL QUICK GAUGE THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT AND SAY, OH, THIS LOT IS 9,000 SQUARE FEET.

IT'S AN, IT SHOULD BE A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.

THAT'S NINE TENTHS.

THAT'S RELATIVELY RESTRICTIVE.

I'M GONNA CONSIDER THAT RESTRICTIVE.

OF COURSE, THAT'S IN YOUR OPINION, UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T HAVE A HARD, FAST STEADFAST RULE AS TO WHAT IS, UM, IS IT 90% RESTRICTIVE? IS IT 80% RESTRICTIVE? UM, THAT'S IN YOUR DISCRETION.

YOU USE A SLIDING SCALE TO DETERMINE THAT.

SO THAT'S AREA WHEN YOU WANNA LOOK AT SHAPE, OBVIOUSLY THE IDEAL LOT SHAPE IS A, UH, A RECTANGLE, RIGHT? SO IF THE SUBJECT LOT IS THE UNDERSIZED RECTANGLE, IEA NARROW RECTANGLE, OR IF IT'S AN ABNORMAL POLYGONAL SHAPE, AND A POLYGONAL SHAPE JUST MEANS A MULTI-SIDED SHAPE.

UH, SO IF IT'S A WEIRDLY SHAPED LOT, IT'S GONNA ODD SHAPE, IT'S GONNA BE CONSIDERED RESTRICTIVE, THE ELEMENT'S GONNA BE MET.

HOWEVER, YOU DO NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THAT AN OVERSIZED LOT, WHETHER IT BE RECTANGULAR OR POLYGONAL, UH, WOULD MOST LIKELY NOT QUALIFY AS BEING OVERLY RESTRICTED BECAUSE IT STILL PROVIDES ADEQUATE AREA.

AND SO THEREFORE IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE.

UH, SLOPE BASICALLY MEANS, IS IT HAILEY, RIGHT? UH, YOU'RE GONNA WANNA DETERMINE IF IT'S A OVERLY RESTRICTIVE SLOPE.

YOU'RE GONNA WANNA LOOK AT THE ELEVATIONS OR A TOPOGRAPHICAL MAC TO DETERMINE IF THERE'S SLOPE.

UH, BUT YOU DO WANNA KEEP IN MIND THAT THE EXISTENCE OF A SLOPE ISN'T PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE THAT, UM, THAT THE ELEMENT IS BEING READ, BUT THE, THE ELEMENT IS BEING MET.

SO YOU GUYS, AGAIN, HAVE TO USE YOUR OWN DISCRETION TO DETERMINE IF THE SLOPE IS OVERLY RESTRICTED.

AND SO AGAIN, IF YOU, IF YOU FIND THAT IT IS ON A HILL OR IT'S, UH, HILLY OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE, THEN YOU CAN CONSIDER THAT ELEMENT MET.

UM, THIS IS ANOTHER, THE PREEXISTING STRUCTURE.

SO ANOTHER THING IS THAT WE USE A LOT OF TERMS. WE'LL SAY IT'S LEGAL NON-CONFORMING, IT'S LEGAL, IT'S ILLEGAL, UM, AND A LOT OF TIMES THE LANGUAGE GETS, UM, A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED.

SO I WANTED TO GO OVER THAT REAL QUICK BECAUSE IT'S, UH, IMPORTANT FOR THIS PARTICULAR ELEMENT.

SO A LEGAL STRUCTURE IS ONE THAT

[03:15:01]

YOU GUYS CAN UNDERSTAND.

IT'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH CODE, IT WAS BUILT IN COMPLIANCE, OR THERE'S BEEN SOME SORT OF BOARD ACTION THAT CURED THAT, UM, DEFECT.

AND SO THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S NOW CONSIDERED LEGAL.

AND THE MAIN THING TO, TO REALIZE THAT WHEN A, WHEN YOU HAVE A LEGAL STRUCTURE, IT'S NOT RIPE TO RECEIVE VIOLATIONS FROM CODE COMPLIANCE.

SO IF CODE COMPLIANCE IS DRIVING BY YOUR HOUSE AND YOU HAVE A LEGAL HOUSE, THEY'RE NOT GIVING YOU A TICKET BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

NOW, THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE.

SO A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE IS ONE THAT'S NON NON-COMPLIANT WITH THE HOUSE DEVELOPMENT CODE, BUT IT WAS A BIT BUILT PRIOR TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CURRENT ZONING RULES.

SO CONSEQUENTLY, WE'RE GONNA DEEM IT LEGAL.

AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT RIGHT TO RECEIVE CODE VIOLATIONS.

SO THEORETICALLY, CODE VI CODE COMPLIANCE TRUCKS DRIVING DOWN THE STREET, THEY SEE YOUR HOUSE AND THEY GO, HEY, THAT HOUSE LOOKS OUT OF CODE.

THEN THEY'RE GONNA RESEARCH IT.

THEY'RE GONNA SAY, OH, THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1950, WE ANNEXED IT IN 1960.

SO THE, IT'S NON-CONFORMING, BUT IT'S, IT'S CONSIDERED LEGAL, SO WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE IT A TICKET.

AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE ON THE OTHER HAND, IS ONE THAT AS YOU CAN ANTICIPATE, IS IN VIOLATION OF THE DA CODE.

UM, IT CAN BE CURED BY BDA DECISION, BUT THE MAIN THING TO THINK ABOUT THERE IS THAT WHEN THEY DRIVE BY AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE AND THEY SEE SOMETHING'S WRONG WITH IT, THEY DINGING IT WITH A CODE COMPLIANCE VIOLATION.

AND THAT'S HOW SOME OF THE CASES COME BEFORE THE BOARD IS THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY BUILT AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE, THEY GET A TICKET, AND THE WAY THEY HAVE TO REMEDY THAT TICKET IS BY BRINGING IT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

UM, SO HOUSE BILL 1475 IS WHAT WE, IT WAS FORMERLY KNOWN.

THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE BILL FORMERLY KNOWN AS, UH, HOUSE BILL 1475.

IT'S BEEN CODIFIED IN SECTION 51, A 3 1 0 2 D, 10 B, AND THAT'S THE ONE YOU GUYS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH.

IT'S THAT IF THE FINANCIAL COST IS GREATER THAN 50% OF THE APPRAISED VALUE OF THE RECENT TAX ROLL, THEN YOU CAN USE THAT TO SUBSTITUTE TO GET A CHECK MARK FOR ELEMENT TWO.

UM, THAT'S ONLY ENT WHEN THERE'S A PREEXISTING STRUCTURE.

SO IF YOU HAVE AN EMPTY LOT, YOU CAN'T APPLY IT BECAUSE THERE'S NO STRUCTURE.

AND THE STATUTE SPECIFICALLY REFERS TO STRUCTURE AND NOT, UH, THE TAX APPRAISAL FOR THE LOT.

UM, THERE'S SOME OTHER ONES THAT HAVE NEVER REALLY COME UP BEFORE, BUT I'LL ACTUALLY, I'M NOT GONNA READ 'EM 'CAUSE UH, FOR PURPOSES OF TIME, BUT YOU GUYS CAN READ 'EM.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE SHOOT ME AN EMAIL.

UM, SO YOU LOOK AT THE AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE, CERTAINLY MR. GLOVER, DR. GLOVER OR DR. GLOVER.

YES, THANK YOU.

SO IN A CASE WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE VARIANCE IS NOT GRANTED, WHAT'S, WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS? UM, DOES THE PERSON PAY THE PENALTY OR IS THE STRUCTURE TEAR DOWN? WHAT, WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES? YEAH, THEN THEY HAVE AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE THAT IS RIPE FOR CODE COMPLIANCE VIOLATIONS, AND THEY COULD BE PROSECUTED BY THE MUNICIPAL PROSECUTION ENTITY OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

UM, SO IF THERE'S A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S NORMAL IN THAT ZONING CLASSIFICATION.

MATT, DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, DR. GLOVER? IT'S BASICALLY YOU, THEY'RE, YOU'RE TAKEN TO MUNICIPAL COURT AND, AND THIS, A SID PART OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WOULD THEN DO AN ENFORCEMENT ACTION FOR YOU TO CORRECT IT, OR IN THE END, TEAR IT DOWN OR REMOVE WHATEVER WAS, UH, ILLEGAL.

THAT THAT'S THE, THE EVENTUAL ENFORCEMENT.

A PROPERTY AT IN AN ARM'S LENGTH TRANSACTION.

UM, SO IF THE BOARD DETERMINES THAT THERE'S A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE, YOU CAN SAY THIS ELEMENT IS MET AND THEN YOU, OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, YOU CAN USE 51, A 3, 1 0 2 D, 10 B, THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, THE BILL FORMERLY KNOWN AS HOUSE BILL, 1475, IT POTENTIALLY CAN BE UTILIZED AND POTENTIALLY THAT ELEMENT IS MET.

AND, AND THE KEY ISSUE THERE IS MAY BE UTILIZED, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE MAY.

THAT'S THAT ABSOLUTELY IT DOESN'T FORCE THE BOARD'S HAND.

AND ANOTHER IT'S A MAINE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PANELS ARE FIVE MEMBERS AND IT TAKES FOUR VOTES.

SO LET'S SAY THREE OF THE THREE OF THE PANELISTS DECIDE THAT THEY THINK THAT THE EL THAT THE ELEMENT IS MET BECAUSE IT WAS RESTRICTIVE AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE.

BUT THERE'S ONE HOLDOUT WHO DOESN'T THINK THAT WAS MET, BUT HE THINKS THAT 51, A 3, 1 0 2 DT B CAN BE UTILIZED IF AS LONG AS YOU GUYS GET TO THE SAME DESTINATION.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH ROAD YOU TAKE TO GET THERE.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING TO TAKE A, JUST SO YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT.

UH, OKAY, SO THE THIRD ELEMENT, WHICH IS THE ELEMENT THAT WE THINK YOU SHOULD ANALYZE.

SECOND IS THAT THE VARIANCE IS NOT GRANTED TO RELIEVE A SELF-CREATED OR PERSONAL HARDSHIP.

UM, SO THE NATURE OF SOMETHING BEING SELF-CREATED IS THAT THERE MUST BE AN ACTION TAKEN ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT THAT'S SO GENERALLY IT'S NOT SELF-CREATED WHEN AN APPLICANT PURCHASE A PROPERTY THAT HAS A PRE-EXISTING HARDSHIP.

SO THE GENERAL RULE OF THUMB, 95% OF THE TIME, YOU CANNOT PURCHASE A PROBLEM.

YOU MUST CREATE THE PROBLEM YOURSELF, AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SELF-CREATED.

YES, SIR.

MR. AGNEW.

OKAY, SO YOU'RE SAYING GO BACK ONE CLICK THAT, GO BACK ONE THANK YOU PERSON BUYS

[03:20:01]

ONCE THAT'S HAPPENED, THIS NEW PERSON IS ESSENTIALLY FREE OF HAVING CREATED OF SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP.

IT DOESN'T, DOESN'T RUN WITH THE PROPERTY, WITH THE LAND.

ALL WE CARE ABOUT IS, IS WHETHER I DID IT, IF I'M THE PURCHASER.

THAT'S RIGHT.

AND SO THE KEY, WHAT ABOUT CONTRACTORS? THE KEY TO WHAT YOU SAID THERE WAS THAT IT'S IN AN ARM'S LENGTH TRANSACTION.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I DON'T NEED TO SELL IT TO MYSELF.

SO, SO THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

SO IF THERE'S SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THE TRANSACTION WAS DONE BY, OR IT WAS NOT DONE BY A BONAFIDE PURCHASER, THAT WAS, THAT IT WAS DONE IN BAD FAITH, THEN THE BOARD, YOU GUYS COULD GRANT A OR YOU COULD, IN YOUR DISCRETION, YOU COULD NOT GRANT THE VARIANCE.

HOWEVER, THAT'S EXTREMELY UNLIKELY, RIGHT? LIKE, UH, IN GENERAL SENSE, THE, THE GRANTEE, THE SELLER OF THE PROPERTY OR THE APPLICANT WHO PURCHASED THE PROPERTY IN GOOD FAITH.

WHAT ABOUT WE'RE NOT THE ONE WHO CREATED THE, THE HARDSHIP.

IT'S THE, THE, WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION? WELL, WHAT ABOUT A CONTRACTOR? TH THIS SAYS SELF-CREATED REQUIRES AN ACTION ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT.

I ASSUME AT LEAST BY VIRTUE OF HIRING A CONTRACTOR THAT SCREWS UP, I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

PLANS THAT DON'T FIT ON THE LOT THAT YOU HAVE AND IT DOESN'T MEET ANY OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS, THEN YOU CAN'T GET A VARIANCE.

YEAH, BUT I'M JUST, I'M JUST READING WHAT YOU SAID.

ACTION.

UH, SOME THAT CREATE REQUIRES AN ACTION.

THE PART OF THE A ON THE APPLICANT TO MAKE ITSELF CREATED, I WOULD ASSUME AN AGENT WOULD, BUT I ALSO WOULD'VE THOUGHT THE A MISTAKE RUNS WITH THE PROPERTY, MR. AGNI, IT'S JUST THE PRINCIPAL AGENT RELATIONSHIP.

THE PRINCIPAL WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE AGENT'S ACTION.

AND SO WE WOULD JUST SUBSTITUTE THE PRINCIPAL IN FOR THE AGENT IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE.

AND AN ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION IS, UH, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE REASON IS 'CAUSE IT CREATES A FLOODGATE ARGUMENT.

IF EVERYTHING, THEN EVERYTHING WOULD BE CONSIDERED SELF-CREATED, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU PURCHASED A LOT THAT WAS A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE, THEN WE COULD SAY, WELL, YOU CREATED THAT BY PURCHASING IT.

THE PURCHASE WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE SELF-CREATION BECAUSE YOU PURCHASED A THING.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER, UM, AVENUE.

UM, SO, UM, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE HARDSHIP, YOU NEED TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S DUE TO THE RESTRICTIVE LOT, THE PRIOR STRUCTURE, OR BOTH.

IF THE SHIP'S DUE TO THE LOT, YOU'RE GONNA WANNA USE THE LOT ANALYSIS.

AND IF IT'S DUE TO THE ILLEGAL STRUCTURE, YOU'RE GOING TO WANNA USE THE STRUCTURE ANALYSIS.

IF THE SHIP'S DUE TO BOTH, YOU WANNA DETERMINE WHETHER THE LOT OR THE STRUCTURE IS CAUSING THE RELEVANT HARDSHIP.

SO I HAVE A HYPOTHETICAL FOR YOU.

SO, UH, I OWN THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY AND I WANT TO CHANGE SOMETHING ON THE PROPERTY.

SO I HAVE AN ARCHITECT WHO DRAWS PLANS AND THE PLANS, MY DIRECTED PLANS RESULT IN REQUIRING A VARIANCE.

ISN'T THAT SELF-CREATED? YES.

AREN'T I CREATING YES.

ARE MY PLANS CREATING THE HARDSHIP? ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, WOULDN'T THAT FORESTALL EVERY VARIANCE REQUEST IF I, I'M, OR MOST IF I HAVE A SET OF PLANS AND I, AND I HIRED DANIEL TO BE MY ARCHITECT, AND HE AND I COME UP WITH A SET OF PLANS AND WE SUBMIT IT TO STAFF, AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THOSE PLANS THAT, THAT WE REQUIRE THE VARIANCE THAT'S SELF-CREATED, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY.

OOH.

I THINK TO THE HARDSHIP HAS TO BE BASED ON SIZE, SHAPE, SLOPE.

SO IT CAN'T BE, YOU KNOW, ALL I NEED IS IS THE THAT, SO I SAY SHOW SIZE, SHAPE, OR SLOPE.

SO, SO IN THAT EXAMPLE, THE, THE STRUCTURE ISN'T A PREEXISTING STRUCTURE BECAUSE YOU'RE GETTING IT PLANS FOR THE, FROM THE ARCHITECT.

WE SEE THIS OFTEN AND IT, IT CREATES GREAT ANGST WITH ME THAT ABSOLUTELY PEOPLE COME IN AND THEY'VE, THEY'VE, THEY'VE DRAWN UP THESE PLANS ON A LOT THAT WAS THERE, KNOWING THE CONSTRAINTS OF THAT PARTICULAR LOT.

THAT'S A GREAT FRUSTRATION FOR ME.

AND WE OFTENTIMES SAY, OKAY, INDEPENDENTLY EACH TIME DIFFERENT AND SEPARATE TO THE FACTS.

MS. LAMB, MY MY QUESTION GIVES TO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A PROPERTY, I GUESS I, I HAVE TO RECONCILE WITH THE ABILITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THE PROPERTY, DEVELOP IT AS WITHIN THE PARAMETERS DEVELOPMENT CODE.

BUT THEN ALSO WE GET THESE, YOU KNOW, THESE REQUESTS FOR A SIDE YARD SETBACK, YOU KNOW, UM, AND, AND THEY'RE BUILDING A POOL.

AND HERE WE ARE LIKE, DO YOU NEED A POOL? YOU KNOW, AND YOU'RE COMING IN AND ASKING RIGHT TO, TO BUILD WITHIN THIS, WITH THE, THE SETBACK.

YET, I MEAN, THAT ALMOST FEELS SELF-CREATED.

BUT THEN ALSO I ALSO HAVE TO RECONCILE WITH THE FACT THAT IT'S THE PROPERTY OWNER'S, RIGHT? TO KIND OF BUILD AND DEVELOP THE PROPERTY AS THEY SIT FIT, AS LONG AS IT KIND OF FITS WITHIN WITH THE, OF THE PARAMETERS OF THE DEVELOPMENT CODE.

SO OF THOSE CASES, I, I FIND THE MOST, MOST CHALLENGING.

HOW WOULD YOU CONSIDER A POOL OR SOME SORT OF EXTRA STRUCTURE ON A PROPERTY IN TERMS OF SELF-CREATED OR NOT? VICE CHAIR GABO.

I, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT IS DEFINITELY SELF-CREATED AND THAT YOU ARE HERE FOR A VARIANCE BECAUSE YOUR LOT IS OF VARYING SLAVE.

ALL THOSE, ALL THOSE THINGS.

AND THAT IF YOU ARE DEVELOPING

[03:25:01]

THAT'S WHY IT, I MEAN, TO MR. CATHERINE'S COMMENT THIS MORNING, THAT IS WHY IT IS SO HARD IN DALLAS TO GET A VARIANCE.

'CAUSE WE'RE SAYING YOU BOUGHT THIS LOT, YOU AGREED TO THE SETBACKS IN CITY OF DALLAS CODE.

I'M SORRY, YOU CAN'T HAVE A POOL.

I MEAN, I'M SORRY.

YOU CAN'T BUILD A GARAGE ON YOUR NEIGHBOR'S LOT, UM, BECAUSE YOUR, YOUR LOT IS THE SAME AS EVERYBODY ELSE'S.

IT IS NOT.

AND THAT'S, I MEAN, AND YOU HAVE TO SAY NO.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY IT'S SO HARD.

WHY VARI THEY'RE ALSO ASKING HARD TORE FENCE, FENCE VARIANCES AND OTHER THINGS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT, WHICH FURTHER EXACERBATES THE ISSUE.

AND OF COURSE, EVERY CASE IS INDEPENDENT OF EACH CASE AND NO CASE THAT'S A PRECEDENT.

WE'RE JUST TALKING IN THE HYPOTHETICAL HERE.

WELL, I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE, THERE'S NO SWEEPING, WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE APPLICATION OR RULES BASED ON SOME OF OUR HISTORY OF HOW WE'VE HEARD CASES.

SO KEEP GOING MR. SAPP, THIS IS VERY GOOD INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION.

UM, AND SO THE OTHER ONES, IF THE HARDSHIP DUE TO BOTH, YOU GOTTA DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S A LOT OF THE STRUCTURE CAUSING THE RELEVANT HARDSHIP.

AND SO I'LL THINK ABOUT, WE HAD A CASE WHERE THE LOT WAS RESTRICTIVE AND THEN, BUT THAT WASN'T REALLY WHAT WAS CAUSING THE PROBLEM.

THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THEY HAD A DESIGN FLAW IN THE HOUSE THAT WERE LIKE THE CLOSET OR THE, UM, GARAGE OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE WAS IN THE SIDE YARD SETBACK.

AND SO, UM, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU NEED TO LOOK AND DETERMINE WHICH ONE CAUSING A RESIDENT HARDSHIP AND THEN USE THE APPLICABLE ANALYSIS.

UM, SO FOR LOT ANALYSIS, YOU'RE GONNA WANNA ASK, IS THE HARDSHIP DUE TO RESTRICTIVE AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE? IF IT IS, THEN IT'S, UH, NOT SELF-CREATED.

IF THE APPLICANT DID NOT PURCHASE THE LOT, BUT PURCHASED A NON-RESTRICTIVE LOT AND THEN SUBDIVIDED IT INTO TWO OR MORE RESTRICTIVE LOTS, THEN THAT IS CONSIDERED SELF-CREATED.

'CAUSE BY SUBDIVIDING IT, THEY HAVE MADE THEIR LOTS RESTRICTIVE.

WHEN THEY PURCHASED IT, IT WASN'T ORIGINALLY RESTRICTIVE.

UM, ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS IF THE APPLICANT PURCHASED A NON RESTRICTIVE LOT AND THEN ADDED SOME SORT OF FEATURE LIKE A KOI POND OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THEN SAID LIKE, HEY, I GOT THIS COI POND AND UH, I CAN'T BUILD BACK THERE.

I NEED TO BE ABLE TO BUILD IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.

I NEED A VARIANCE FOR THAT.

AND YOU SAY, WELL, THAT KOI POND WASN'T THERE, YOU BUILT IT, YOU SELF-CREATED THAT COI POND.

THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES.

SO THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED SELF-CREATED SLAM.

UM, AND SOMETIMES WE OCCASIONALLY GET CASES WHERE THE LOT MAY NOT BE RESTRICTIVE IN AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE, BUT WE DO GET APPLICANTS THAT DO HAVE A REGISTERED DISABILITY WHERE THEY'RE COMING IN AND ASKING FOR EXCEPTIONS, UM, OR, OR VARIANCES BECAUSE OF THEIR CONDITION, WHICH MAY NOT ACTUALLY PERTAIN TO THE, THE RESTRICTIVE SHAPE OR SLOPE.

TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

BUT I, I'M JUST, YES, BUT I I I THINK THERE'S SOME, I DON'T KNOW IF NOT, I BELIEVE THOSE ARE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, BUT THEY'RE UNDER DIFFERENT STANDARD IN THAT CASE, MSLA, IF IT'S BECAUSE OF A DISABILITY UNDER THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT, IT'S NOT A VARIANCE.

IT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR A HANDICAPPED PERSON.

AND THOSE ARE DIFFERENT STANDARDS, I BELIEVE THE THING WE GRANT IN THAT CASE HAS TO BE RELATED TO THE DISABILITY AND IT ALSO HAS TO GO AWAY IF THE, THE PERSON WITH THE DISABILITY MOVES OUT.

THAT YOU HAVE A HOU A HOME AND IT HAS A CARPORT, AND THE CARPORT IS NON-CONFORMING, MEANING IT WAS BUILT BEFORE, UH, THE ZONING LAWS THAT MADE IT ILLEGAL.

UM, SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A STRUCTURE ANALYSIS, YOU NEED TO LOOK TO SEE IF IT'S NON-CONFORMING.

IF IT'S NON-CONFORMING, IT SHOULDN'T BE BEFORE THE BOARD ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE WHAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER IS THAT IF IT'S NON-CONFORMING, IT'S DEEMED LEGAL, SO IT SHOULDN'T BE GIVEN A TICKET.

SO IT SHOULD NEVER WIND UP BEFORE US.

UM, IF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE IS ILLEGAL, DID THE APPLICANT BUILD THE ILLEGAL STRUCTURE? IF YES, THEN IT'S SELF CREATED.

SO THE EXAMPLE THAT MR. NEWMAN, EXCUSE ME, CHAIRMAN NEWMAN JUST GAVE WHERE, UH, HE'S, HE'S USING DANIEL AS AN ARCHITECT, WHICH BY THE WAY, THAT'S A TERRIBLE CHOICE FOR AN ARCHITECT.

UH, IF YOU'RE USING DANIEL AS AN ARCHITECT, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE CREATING THE, THE STRUCTURE.

SO YOU'RE CREATED.

AND IF THE STRUCTURE IS DESIGNED POORLY BECAUSE HE HAS A LAW DEGREE AND NOT AN ENGINEERING OR AN ARCHITECT DEGREE, THEN, THEN, UH, THAT IS SELF-CREATED.

UM, THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT IF, IF THE STRUCTURE WAS NON-CONFORMING, AND MR. AGNES HAS A QUESTION, SORRY, I'M JUST WONDERING HOW I'M SUPPOSED TO DETERMINE IF SOMEBODY INNOCENTLY PURCHASED A PROPERTY.

SO SOMEBODY'S GONNA SHOW UP AND SAY, WELL, YEAH, YOU SHOULD JUST ASSUME THAT THEY'RE MOST PURCHASES ARE, ARE INNOCENT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY I SAY IT'S INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY THAT THEY'RE GONNA COME BEFORE YOU.

AND ANYONE WITH THAT SORT OF NEFARIOUS INTENT WOULD BE PRETTY FOOLISH TO ADMIT THEIR WRONGDOING IN FRONT, IN FRONT OF A, A PANEL ON THE RECORD.

UM, SO IF YOU HAVE A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE AND AN ATTEMPT TO REPAIR THAT NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE, UH, YOU DEMOLISH YOUR NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE IN ORDER TO REBUILD IT, THEN YOU HAVE DEMOLISHED YOUR NON-CONFORMING RIGHTS.

AND SO NOW THE STRUCTURE THAT YOU BUILD IS AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE.

SO THE WAY THAT YOU DEAL WITH THAT IS SOMETHING WE CALL THE PIECEMEAL CONSTRUCTION METHOD.

SO TAKE, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE

[03:30:01]

UM, AND THEN WHAT YOU WANNA DO IS JUST RIP DOWN AND LET'S SAY IT'S WOODEN.

SO IT'S GETTING TERMITES AND IT'S ROTTING.

AND WHAT YOU WANNA DO IS RIP IT DOWN AND BUILD A NEW ONE WITH THE SAME MATERIALS.

UM, WELL, YOU CAN REPAIR IT.

SO YOU HAVE TO REPAIR IT IN A REPEAT, IN A PIECEMEAL CONSTRUCTION FASHION, MEANING LIKE, FIRST YOU HAVE TO DO THE LEFT COLUMN, THEN YOU HAVE TO REPAIR THE RAFTERS, THEN YOU HAVE TO REPAIR THE RIGHT COLUMN, THEN YOU HAVE TO REPAIR THE ROOF SO THAT AT NO POINT IS THE STRUCTURE COMPLETELY DEMOLISHED.

'CAUSE IF YOU DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE, THEN YOU LOSE YOUR NON-CONFORMING RIGHTS.

AND THE NEW STRUCTURE THAT YOU BUILD IS ILLEGAL.

THAT ILLEGAL STRUCTURE CAN BE DINGING, DINGED BY CODE COMPLIANCE.

AND WHEN THEY COME UP FOR THE BOARD, IT'S GONNA BE SELF-CREATED AND MOST LIKELY DENIED A VARIANCE.

UH, IF THE PERMIT, VERY BRIEFLY, MR. Z IS THERE, IS THERE A LENGTH OF, IS THERE A LENGTH OF TIME ASSOCIATED WITH THAT? IF I BUILD IT DOWN, IF I TORE DOWN THE, UH, THE LEFT REAR COLUMN TODAY AND PUT A NEW ONE IN, AND THEN TOMORROW I TORE DOWN THE, IS THERE A LENGTH OF TIME ASSOCIATED WITH THAT PIECEMEAL CONSTRUCTION? THERE'S NOT A LENGTH OF TIME ASSOCIATED WITH THAT PIECEMEAL CONSTRUCTION.

AND IT'S NOT REALLY SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED IN THE CITY CODE.

IT'S JUST SORT OF TAKEN FROM CASE LAW AND FROM THE, UH, EFFECT OF WHAT THE CODE SAYS SO THAT IF YOU DEMOLISH IT, YOU'VE LOST YOUR NONCONFORMING RIGHTS.

SO TO YOUR, TO YOUR POINT, THERE IS NO, UH, SPECIFIC TIME LIMIT FOR THAT.

UH, IF THE STRUCTURE IS ILLEGAL, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ALSO LOOK, DID THE APPLICANT INNOCENTLY BUILD IT WITH AN ERRONEOUSLY OR A PERMIT THAT WAS ISSUED IN OVERSIGHT? IF YES, NOW THIS ONE COULD BE CONSIDERED SELF-CREATED.

IT'S IN Y'ALL'S DISCRETION, SO IT'S IN THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARD.

UM, SO I ASKED OUR BOARD ATTORNEY TO VERY BRIEFLY BRING UPCO.

AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN BRIEFED ON, UH, LAST NOVEMBER, FIRST WHEN WE HAD OUR FULL MEETING AND JANUARY 11TH WHEN WE HAD OUR FULL MEETING.

AND THE IMPORTANCE THING IS BECAUSE THIS CASE CAME FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS, FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WAS APPEALED AND APPEALED AND WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT.

SO VERY BRIEFLY, MR. SAPP, TELL US WHY THIS CASE IS IMPORTANT TO THIS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

THIS CASE IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT, THE SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED THAT A CITY CAN ENFORCE A ZONING ORDINANCE AGAINST THE PROPERTY WHO HAD SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETED THEIR HOME BUILD IN VIOLATION OF AN ORDINANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY HAD GIVEN APPROVAL TO THE OWNER'S BUILDING PERMIT.

HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

I WANTED EVERYONE TO ABSORB THAT.

I WANT YOU TO REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

CERTAINLY.

'CAUSE THAT IS OPERATIVE, I'M GONNA READ IT VERBATIM FROM THE SLIDE.

BUT THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS CONCLUDED THAT A CITY CAN ENFORCE A ZONING ORDINANCE AGAINST A PROPERTY OWNER WHO HAD SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETED NEW HOME BUILD, HAD BEEN IN VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY HAD GIVEN APPROVAL TO THE OWNER'S BUILDING PLANS.

WHAT THE SUPREME COURT DID, THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT, IT REINFORCED THE AUTHORITY, THE POWER OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO GRANT OR DENY.

YEAH, AND IT'S, IT'S STRIKING BECAUSE IT, IT GOES TO, IT'S A DANGEROUS THING.

'CAUSE IT GOES TO, EVEN IF YOU GET A GREEN TAG BY THE CITY AND THE BOARD LATER DENIES IT, THE DENIAL CARRIES.

OKAY, QUESTIONS.

YEAH, IT IS, IT'S, IT'S VERY, THIS IS WHY IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, THE PROCESS, THE, UH, THE HEARING PROCESS, THE PREPARATION, THE QUESTIONS, THE WHOLE THING IS, IS TAKEN VERY CAREFULLY.

OKAY, ANYTHING ELSE ON VESCO? UH, THANK YOU.

I'LL MOVE FORWARD.

SO THE LAST ELEMENT THAT YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO ANALYZE, WHICH IS THE FIRST ELEMENT THAT AS IT APPEARS IN THE CODE, WHICH IS THAT THE VARIOUS NOT VARIANCE IS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.

NOW, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE LANGUAGE NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE LANGUAGE IN A SPECIAL EXCEPTION THAT IT DOES NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

HOWEVER, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS A BROADER TEST THAN NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT, UM, WHAT'S CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST, THE, THE ELEMENT REQUIRES THAT YOU GUYS USE A SLIDING SCALE TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE VARIANCE IS CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.

AND YOU NEED TO, OFTENTIMES, YOU KNOW, WE TAKE IN LETTERS FROM THE PUBLIC, AND SO A LETTER FROM THE OPPOSITION MAY ILLUSTRATE CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THE REQUEST IS CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.

BUT IT'S NOT ABSOLUTE BECAUSE THIS IS ULTIMATELY YOUR DECISION.

SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.

IN FACT, YOU COULD HAVE A WHOLE PLETHORA OF LETTERS SAYING, WE THINK THIS IS OPPOSITION, AND YOU GUYS COULD DECIDE AS A BOARD THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE THINK YOU'RE WRONG.

AND HERE'S WHY.

UM, HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

I WANNA, I WANNA REINFORCE AGAIN.

'CAUSE MANY TIMES THERE'S QUESTIONS THAT I HEAR IN VARIOUS PANELS ABOUT, WELL, WHERE'S THE FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND TWO PEOPLE SPEAK UP, OH, I'M AGAINST IT.

AND ONE PERSON SAYS THEY'RE FOR IT, OR FIVE AGAINST, AND

[03:35:01]

ONE FOR THAT IS NOT CONTROLLING YOU ALL AS AN INDIVIDUAL PANEL ARE WHAT'S CONTROLLING.

AND YOU HAVE TO DECIPHER WHAT WEIGHTING YOU GIVE THE FEEDBACK YOU GET FROM THE PUBLIC.

JUST LIKE OUR PUBLIC TESTIMONY THIS MORNING, YOU HAVE TO DECIPHER, WE AS A BOARD WILL DECIPHER WHAT WEIGHTING WE GIVE THAT.

AND I THINK THIS IS VERY APPROPRIATE.

IT IS NOT, AS HE SAID IN HIS SLIDE, IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE.

IT IS ULTIMATELY THE DISCRETION.

HE SAYS THE ARBITER, MEANING THE PANEL.

NOW I HARP ON THE STAFF ALL THE TIME, ARE, DID WE SENDING OUT THE NOTICES? AND THEY SAY, OH, YES WE DID.

WHY AREN'T PEOPLE RESPONDING? YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE WANNA GET THAT FEEDBACK.

BUT THAT IS NOT CONTROLLING.

THAT'S IN THAT INFLUENCES POTENTIALLY THE DECISION, BUT NOT CONTROLLING MS. LAMB.

UM, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC INTEREST, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

IF WE MAKE A, A MOTION AND WE DO TAKE IN CONSIDERATION PUBLIC INTEREST, BUT WE POTENTIALLY GO AGAINST PUBLIC INTEREST AND MAKE A MOTION, THE PUBLIC THEN CAN, CAN THEY FILE A COMPLAINT? UH, NO.

THE BOARD DETERMINES WHAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS, BUT YES.

BUT IF SO, WE'RE NOT GOING AGAINST PUBLIC INTEREST.

NO, BUT IF THE BOARD DETERMINES IT, IF WE JUST, IF WE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A CASE IN GREENVILLE AVENUE OR SOMETHING, OH, YOU'RE BEING HYPOTHETICAL, RIGHT? BUT THE PUBLIC CAN, CAN APPEAL OUR DECISION.

UH, ANYONE CAN APPEAL A DECISION OF BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

IS THAT TRUE? ANYONE CAN ANY AGGRIEVED YEAH, ANY AGGRIEVED PARTY CAN.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, BUT, BUT, BUT YES TO TAKE, BUT THE BOARD DETERMINES WHAT PUBLIC INTEREST IS, JUST LIKE THE COUNCIL ON A ZONING CASE.

THE CITY COUNCIL IN THE END DETERMINES WHAT THE CRITERIA IS FOR ZONING.

THEY THAT'S RIGHT ALONE.

DETERMINED.

THAT'S, SO YOU'RE THE, THAT'S WHY WE USE THE WORD ARBITER.

YOU GUYS ARE THE, THE DECIDER.

YES, WE ARE.

SURE.

NOW WE'RE NOT, HOPEFULLY WE'RE NOT RECKLESS.

HOPEFULLY WE HAVE A PROCESS IN PLACE.

WE ASK GOOD QUESTIONS, BUT IN THE END, WE'RE THE ONES TO DETERMINE 55 PEOPLE IN THE ROOM SAY ONE THING AND ONE SAYS THE OTHER.

WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH WAITING.

AND I GUESS MY MY POINT IS, EVEN IF WE, WE HEAR THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, WE, WE TAKE IN CONSIDERATION AND WE GO THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION TO MAKE THE PUBLIC FEEL HEARD IN THE PUBLIC PROCESS.

WE'LL GO A LONG WAY.

EVEN IF WE, WE END UP, UH, MAKING A MOTION SUPPORTING AGAINST PUBLIC'S.

IT'S A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

WE DETERMINE WHAT IS PUBLIC INTEREST.

THE HOPE IS YOUR COUNCIL MEMBER, THE CITY COUNCIL, APPOINTED US TO USE GOOD JUDGMENT.

MM-HMM, .

AND THAT IS THE HOPE.

THAT'S PRECISELY, THAT IS THE HOPE.

GOOD JUDGMENT.

MAYBE THE DISTINCTION IS THAT'S A VERY GOOD WAY OF PUTTING IT, CHAIRMAN, MAYBE THE DISTINCTION IS, IS BETWEEN PUBLIC OPINION AND PUBLIC INTEREST.

WELL, WHAT DOES THE CODE SAY? WELL, NO, NO, I'M JUST SAYING THE CODE SAYS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.

RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE CRITERIA.

SO IT'S QUITE ALSO, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT THE PUBLIC'S OPINION, WHICH IS THE INTEREST LETTERS THAT YOU'RE GETTING, ARE PART OF THAT, WHICH HELPS YOU DETERMINE THE PUBLIC INTEREST, WHICH HAS CHAIRMAN.

BUT YOU GUYS ARE, UH, THE ONES WHO ARE, ARE I, I JUST WANNA REINFORCE TO EVERYONE THAT IF YOU GET FIVE OPPOSED, THAT DOES NOT CONTROL THE DECISION.

THAT INFLUENCES THE DECISION.

AND, AND A LOT OF TIMES THE PEOPLE AGAINST SOMETHING ARE MORE OUTSPOKEN THAN THE PEOPLE.

FOUR, IT'S LIKE VOTING.

BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.

YOU'RE NOT HEARD UNLESS YOU VOTE.

SO KEEP GOING.

THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.

UM, SO I LIKE MY ACRONYMS AND WE CAME UP WITH AN ACRONYM OF WHAT YOU COULD, WHAT ARE THE SUBJECTS THAT ARE IDEALLY IDEAL? WHEN, WHEN, UH, ANALYZING, BY THE WAY, WE'RE GONNA BREAK FOR LUNCH AT 1245 IS WHEN WE'RE GONNA BREAK FOR LUNCH.

MS. MARY'S LUNCH.

READY? OKAY, SO 1245, WE'LL BREAK FOR LYNCH.

BECAUSE WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

RIGHT? SO THE, UH, THE ACRONYM IS MAS, MAS, WHICH STANDS FOR MONETARY AESTHETICS AND SAFETY.

SO ALTHOUGH THOUGH THERE'S A LOT OF SUBJECT MATTER THAT A COURT MIGHT LOOK AT TO DETERMINE IF A VARIANCE IS CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST, WE'VE NARROWED IT DOWN TO THREE, WHICH WE FEEL ARE A SOLID PLACE TO BEGIN YOUR ANALYSIS.

SO MONETARY IS, YOU KNOW, DOES THE VARIANCE INCREASE OR DECREASE PROPERTY VALUE? YOU GUYS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THAT.

AESTHETICS IS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY IS IT UGLY, RIGHT? LIKE, DOES THE VARIANCE COMPORT AND FIT IN WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? UH, AND THEN LASTLY, SAFETY.

DOES THE VARIANCE CREATE OR MITIGATE, UH, SAFETY ISSUES? AND SO, AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE THE DECIDERS, YOU, YOU SHOULD LOOK AT ALL THE EVIDENCE AND USE A SLIDING SCALE TO DETERMINE, IN YOUR OPINION WHETHER THE VARIANCE IS CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST.

YOU HAVE A QUESTION.

AND THEN IF YOU GET ALL THREE TIC-TAC TOE WIN A WINNER CHICKEN DINNER, YOU CAN GIVE THEM A VARIANCE.

UH, MOVING ON TO PRACTICAL SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, UH, PRACTICAL SPECIAL EXCEPTION ANALYSIS.

THE CHAPTER 51 A AUTHORIZES OVER 50 TYPES OF SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.

WE'RE NOT GONNA GET INTO ALL 50 OF 'EM.

THE MAIN ONES YOU GUYS SEE, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH FENCE STANDARD ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS, OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS.

THE COMMON DENOMINATOR FOR MOST SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS IS THAT THE STANDARD IS THAT THEY ADVERSELY OR THAT IT DOESN'T ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY.

SO THIS IS REALLY SIMILAR TO, YOU KNOW, NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST, EXCEPT THAT IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, PRECISE, RIGHT?

[03:40:01]

UM, AND FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, AGAIN, YOU USE THE SIMILAR TYPE OF MOSS ANALYSIS MONETARY IN THIS SCENARIO.

IT'S NOT THE ZONING DISTRICT IN THIS AREA.

IT'S NOT, IT'S IT'S NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

SO THEN YOU DETERMINE THE CODE, AND THE CODE DOESN'T SPECIFY WHAT'S NEIGHBORING.

SO THEN, SO THEN YOU GET TO DETERMINE WHAT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IS.

SO YOU POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE SOMEONE WHO, I DON'T KNOW, DOESN'T LIKE TALL FENCES COME FROM AN AREA MILES AWAY, NOT IN WHAT WE WOULD TRADITIONALLY THINK OF AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND YOU'D HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM SPEAK IN OPPOSITION.

BUT THEN YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT AS WEIGHTED, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH DO WE REALLY CARE ABOUT SOMEONE'S OPINION? WHO DOESN'T LIVE VERY CLOSE TO IT? UM, SO AGAIN, YOU LOOK AT THE, DOES IT, UH, DOES IT INCREASE, DECREASE POVERTY VALUE? DOES IT FIT IN WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? DOES IT CREATE OR MITIGATE SAFETY ISSUES? AND THEN YOU USE A SLIDING SCALE TO DETERMINE, IN YOUR OPINION, IF IT ADVERSELY AFFECTS NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THANK YOU.

UH, WE HAVE FIVE MINUTES.

ARE WE DOING MR. FLANNERY NEXT? MR. MR. BRADY? ALRIGHT.

LUCKY YOU.

YOU'RE IN THE HOT SEAT.

IT'S NOT HOT.

SO MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS, HOW MANY MINUTES DO YOU NEED? I CAN BE AS QUICK AS YOU WANT.

SO I SEE, I'M TRYING TO SET YOU UP FOR YOU SAY, OH, FIVE MINUTES.

IT'S 1240, SO I WAS HOPING FIVE MINUTES YOU CAN DO IT FOR US.

AND DANIEL'S GONNA DO WELL? NO, WELL, WE'LL DO DANIEL ON THE REBOUND.

GOT IT.

I CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.

WE'LL DO DANIEL ON THE REBOUND.

GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.

LEMME SCOOT OVER TEXAS PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND PROCEED.

MY NAME IS BRADY FLANNERY.

I AM AN ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, AND I WILL BE DISCUSSING THE TEXAS PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT.

AND YOU'RE NOT READING EVERY SLIDE.

I'M NOT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE HIGHLIGHTING.

YEP.

SO, UM, IF YOU WALK AWAY WITH ANY INFORMATION FROM THIS FIVE MINUTE PRESENTATION, IT IS KNOWING WHAT PUBLIC INFORMATION IS AND WHAT PUBLIC INFORMATION IS, IS IT'S ANYTHING YOU TOUCH BECAUSE YOU WERE APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND YOU ARE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE CITY AS AN INSTRUMENTALITY OF THE CITY.

ANYTHING THAT YOU TOUCH IS CONSIDERED IS CON IS PRESUMED TO BE PUBLIC INFORMATION.

SO AN EMAIL THAT CONCERNS ANYTHING THAT YOUR APPOINTMENT CONCERNS, UM, ANY NOTES YOU TAKE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT'S CONSIDERED PUBLIC INFORMATION.

, UM, OFFICIAL BUSINESS, ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH YOUR, YOUR DUTIES.

THAT IS WHAT OFFICIAL BUSINESS IS.

AND, UM, I BELIEVE EVERYONE HAS A COPY OF THESE SLIDES.

IS THAT RIGHT? OKAY.

SO YOU CAN LOOK OVER THIS STUFF IN THE, UM, ON YOUR OWN TIME, BUT ESSENTIALLY WE RECEIVE REQUESTS FROM THE PUBLIC AND THEY MAY ASK FOR EMAILS, THEY MAY ASK FOR YOUR NOTES, THEY MAY ASK FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, AND WE WILL HANDLE THAT.

UM, IF THERE IS AN EXCEPTION TO RELEASE, WE WILL HANDLE THAT ON YOUR BEHALF.

BUT IF YOU DO HAVE A CONCERN, LET, UM, MARY, I BELIEVE KNOW AND THEY'LL COMMUNICATE WITH US.

BUT IT'S A GENERAL RULE.

WE TRASH ALL OUR INFORMATION AFTER A HEARING.

SO HOW WOULD YOU IN THE 10 DAYS HASN'T EXPIRED.

SO WHAT HAPPENS? UM, YOU'RE CERTAINLY NOT TELLING US TO KEEP ALL OUR NOTES FOR 10 DAYS.

ARE YOU? AREN'T YOU? WELL, THERE IS A, UM, AND I DON'T HAVE THIS IN FRONT OF ME, BUT THERE ARE, UM, RETENTION PERIODS FOR CERTAIN DOCUMENTS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RETENTION PERIOD WOULD BE FOR THESE, UM, FOR THE HEARINGS.

SO I, I THINK CITY ATTORNEYS IN TOTAL NEED TO COME BACK TO US ON THAT.

NOW I STILL TAKE COPIOUS NOTES IN THE PAPER.

A LOT OF US ARE MORE ADVANCED THAN ME AND DO IT ALL ELECTRONICALLY.

UM, BUT I'VE NEVER KEPT MY STUFF.

I TRASH IT.

I HAVE A STRICT DOCUMENT RETENTION POLICY, I THROW IT AWAY AND I'M CONSISTENT.

IS THAT OKAY? WE WILL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT AND OKAY.

THEY'RE GONNA CLARIFY THAT.

YIKES.

THAT'S NEW NEWS.

DANIEL.

MR. MOORE, THAT'S NEW NEWS.

I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF I LIKE NEW NEWS .

YEAH, BECAUSE I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE.

YEAH, IT MAKES SENSE.

IT DOES, BUT MM.

THAT MEANS ALL RECORDS HERE.

WHOOP, CAREFUL THERE, STASHING.

ANYWAY, THEY'LL LET US KNOW.

I DID ONCE RECEIVE A LETTER.

OKAY, KEEP GOING.

YEAH, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE WILL DEFINITELY GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.

SO, UM, IF WE RECEIVE A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION AND THAT INFORMATION DOESN'T EXIST, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO CREATE IT.

SO IF THEY'RE LIKE, THE REQUEST IS PLEASE CREATE A LIST SHOWING THIS, THIS, AND THIS, IF IT DOESN'T EXIST, YOU DON'T NEED TO CREATE IT.

THAT'S ESSENTIALLY, UH, WHAT THIS SLIDE DISCUSSES.

UM, EMAIL ADDRESSES.

UM, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU GET CITY EMAILS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO IF YOU DO DISCUSS ANYTHING RELATED TO YOUR POSITION, UM, I ASSUME IT'S ON A PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS THAT IS SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT.

SO KEEP THAT IN MIND.

UM, DON'T PUT ANYTHING IN WRITING IN AN EMAIL THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO HAVE US LOOK THROUGH OR SORT THROUGH TO PROVIDE TO A REQUESTER QUESTION.

ARE SUBJECT TO, UH, PIA, DOES THAT MEAN ANYTHING THAT IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OR COULD MY ENTIRE INBOX BE SUBJECT TO A SUBPOENA OFFICIAL BUSINESS? SO IT'S, NO, NOT, NOT SUBPOENA, BUT OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

YES, MR. SASH.

SO, SO WHEN YOU SAY PERSONAL EMAILS

[03:45:01]

SO IF YOU DISCUSS OFFICIAL BUSINESS ON YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL, YOU CAN'T SAY, SORRY, I'M NOT GIVING YOU THAT.

IT WAS ON MY PERSONAL GMAIL.

IT WOULD BE, UM, AS A PART OF YOUR DUTIES.

SO THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT.

BUT THAT DIDN'T CLARIFY THE QUESTION.

UH, IS THE SCOPE OF THAT INQUIRY ONLY TO THE ITEMS THAT ARE OFFICIAL BUSINESS? OR IS THIS WHOLE INBOX SUBJECT TO PURVIEW ONLY THE ITEMS THAT ARE SUBJECT THAT ARE, OKAY, THERE YOU GO.

PRESUMABLY, YEP.

YOU WOULD ASK ME TO GO THROUGH MY EMAIL BOX YES.

AND AND YES.

AND PRODUCE WHAT IS RELEVANT, CORRECT.

MS. LAMB, UM, ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, IF YOU JUST MAYBE TWO SENTENCES SPEAK TOWARDS THE EMAILING A QUORUM REPLY ALL BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S BEEN ETHICS COMPLAINTS FILED AGAINST OTHER BOARD MEMBERS OVER THAT.

AND I THINK WITH NEW MEMBERS, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE TO CONFIRM ATTENDANCE AND ALL THAT.

UM, DANIEL, HE CAN SPEAK TO THAT AND HE WILL DEFINITELY BE PRESENTING ON THAT AFTER LUNCH.

THAT'S MORE OF A TOMA THING THAT I'M HAPPY TO DISCUSS AFTER LUNCH, IF THAT'S FINE.

THAT'S FINE.

I JUST SAW IT ON THE SLIDE, SO NO, YEAH, GREAT POINT.

UH, DANIEL WILL DEFINITELY TOUCH ON THAT.

UM, MOVING ON, CELL PHONES, SAME THING APPLIES TO CELL PHONES.

YOUR TEXT MESSAGES, IF YOU'RE TEXTING ABOUT OFFICIAL BUSINESS, THOSE TEXT MESSAGES ARE SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT.

UM, AND THEN I DO HAVE AT THE BOTTOM, UM, OF THE EMAIL ADDRESS SLIDE AND THE CELL PHONE SLIDE.

DO NOT DELETE ANY RESPONSIVE INFORMATION IF YOUR DEVICE IS SUBJECT TO AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST.

SO THIS IS NOT RELATED TO THE QUESTION ABOUT RETENTION PERIOD, BUT IF YOU ARE AWARE OF A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST AND YOU HAVE INFORMATION THAT IS RESPONSIVE, DON'T DELETE IT AFTER THE FACT.

UM, REMEMBER VICE CHAIR AGNES'S, CONSISTENT RETENTION POLICY.

OKAY, GO AHEAD.

SO, UH, MOVING ON TO CALENDARS.

UM, RELIGIOUS, IF YOU, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD REALLY APPLY HERE, BUT, UH, BLOCK FOR PER PERSONNEL IS RECOMMENDED.

SO IF YOU ARE SHARE, IF YOU'RE DOING A CALENDAR AND YOU HAVE, UM, FOR YOUR POSITION HERE, AND THEN ALSO THAT YOUR CHILD HAS A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE KEEPING THE CALENDAR SEPARATE.

SO MAYBE HAVE A PERSONAL CALENDAR AND A WORK CALENDAR.

SO WHEN THEY, IF SOMEONE SAYS, I'D LIKE TO SEE THE CALENDAR OF, UM, BOARD MEMBER LAMB, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET EVERYTHING ON YOUR CALENDAR.

THEY'LL JUST GET WHAT'S RELATED TO YOUR POSITION OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

AND THEN I'M GOING TO NOT, I'M GONNA SKIP OVER THIS.

YOU CAN READ ABOUT THIS LATER ON THE SLIDES ON YOUR OWN, BUT THESE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO RELEASE AND UM, AS I SAID, EVERYTHING IS PRESUMED TO BE PUBLIC UNDER THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT, BUT OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO RELEASE.

SO, UH, KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN YOU'RE CONDUCTING A VISUAL BUSINESS.

AND THE ONLY EXCEPTION I'M AWARE OF, UM, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT EXCEPTIONS IS THE LITIGATION EXCEPTION, AND THAT IS A DISCRETIONARY EXCEPTIONS.

SO IF, UM, THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S DISCUSSING A CASE THAT'S ON APPEAL THAT IS CONSIDERED TO BE IN LITIGATION SO THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO KEEP THAT CONFIDENTIAL.

'CAUSE WE DON'T WANT THAT COMES OUT DURING DISCOVERY AND ALL OF THAT.

SO, UH, THAT'S THE MAIN POINT OF DISCUSSING THESE, UM, EXCEPTIONS TO RELEASE.

AND OF COURSE THERE'S SOME INFORMATION THAT'S SUPER PUBLIC, YOU CAN READ ABOUT THIS ON YOUR OWN.

UH, THIS IS THE OVERVIEW OF THE OPEN RECORDS PROCESS.

AGAIN, READ ABOUT THIS ON YOUR OWN, BUT, UH, SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND IS IF A PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT REQUEST IS RECEIVED, UM, WE NEED THOSE DOCUMENT AND WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO WITHHOLD INFORMATION WE'RE GOING TO SEEK TO WITHHOLD 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO REACH OUT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DO THAT.

UH, WE NEED THAT INFORMATION WITHIN 10 BUSINESS DAYS OF THE, WHEN WE RECEIVE THE REQUEST.

UM, IF NOT, WE WAIVE THE EXCEPTION TO RELEASE AND, UM, IT HAS TO BE RELEASED.

I READ ABOUT THIS ON YOUR OWN, PLEASE FOR LITIGATION PROCESS AND I THINK PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT SLIDE, CRIMINAL PENALTIES, UM, PROVIDING DISTRIBUTING OR MISUSING CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION UP TO SIX MONTHS IN JAIL AND OR A THOUSAND DOLLARS FINE.

SO IMPORTANT INFORMATION TO KEEP IN MIND AS YOU HANDLE YOUR PUBLIC, YOUR, UH, DOCUMENTS THAT CONCERN YOUR POSITIONS.

AND, UH, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED THIS FORM AND YOU CAN ELECT TO KEEP YOUR HOME HOME INFORMATION, ALL OF THAT CONFIDENTIAL.

I'M SEEING NODS.

OKAY, WELL THEN, OKAY, PERFECT THEN THAT IS ALL I HAVE FOR YOU.

AND I THINK, UM, IT'S TIME FOR LUNCH.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. FLANNERY.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. FLANNERY? UH, I THINK IT IS, I THINK THE ONE PENDING ONE, YOU'RE GONNA COME BACK TO ME ON RETENTION OF DOCUMENTS.

YOU'LL CLARIFY THAT FOR US.

THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT HAS ALL SORTS OF ISSUES, BUT WE'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT.

AND I WILL ADD THIS, UM, WITHOUT LOOKING BUT RETENTION OF DOCUMENTS, THE RETENTION PERIODS FOR, UM, TEXAS, IT'S BASED ON THE CONTENT OF THE DOCUMENT AND NOT NECESSARILY THE USE OF THE DOCUMENTS.

SO, WELL,

[03:50:01]

WE'LL, BUT JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AT 12:50 PM ON THE 31ST OF OCTOBER, WE'LL NOW GO INTO RECESS.

WE'RE GONNA RECONVENE AT 1:30 PM UH, SO THAT'S 40 MINUTES FOR LUNCH.

UH, 'CAUSE THAT'S FEEDING 20 PEOPLE.

UH, SO WE WILL RECONVENE AT 1:30 PM THE BOARD IS HEREBY IN RECESS.

TURN OFF YOUR VIDEO CAMERAS.

THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AT 1:30 PM ON THE 31ST OF OCTOBER IS HEREBY CALLED BACK INTO ORDER FROM RECESS.

FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO OUR BOARD SECRETARY MARY WILLIAMS FOR FACILITATING THAT A REMINDER TO BOARD MEMBERS THAT THERE IS ICED TEA.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE COFFEE'S HOT ANYMORE OR IT'S, IT'S OKAY.

SO FORGET THE COFFEE.

UH, IT'S, UH, WE'VE GOT ICED TEA AND WATER IN THE BACK AND SUGAR TO KEEP US ACTIVE, YOU KNOW, UNTIL SIX SEVEN TONIGHT.

I'M JUST KIDDING.

ALRIGHT, SO WE'RE RECONVENING.

WHAT WE HAVE FOR THE BALANCE OF THE DAY IS TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT, ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER.

AND THEN WE SWITCH GEARS TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FOR APPLICATION INTAKE 2223, UH, REVIEW, AND 2324, UH, STRATEGIC EFFICIENCY.

THEN WE HAVE AN OPEN-ENDED TIME FOR BOARD MEMBERS FOR CONVERSATION AND FEEDBACK.

UH, THEN WE HAVE ACTION ITEMS, THE CALENDAR, UM, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, GOALS, AND OBJECTIVES FOR 2324 BOARD RECOMMENDATIONS.

AGAIN, IT IS THE CHAIRMAN'S GOAL TO GET US ADJOURN COMPLETED AND ADJOURNED AT OR BEFORE 4:00 PM THAT BEING SAID, MR. EMERITUS BOARD SECRETARY DANIEL MOORE.

GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.

LET'S JUMP INTO THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

SO THE TEXAS OPEN MEETING ACT APPLIES TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE IT IS A INSTRUMENTALITY OF THE CITY OF DALLAS.

UM, AND AS BOARD MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE, UM, PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT TRAINING AND TEXAS OPEN MEETING ACT TRAINING.

AND THOSE LINKS ARE AVAILABLE ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S WEBSITE.

IT'S ONLY FOR NEW APPOINTEES, WHICH I AM LOOKING AROUND AND EVERYONE LOOKS FAMILIAR EXCEPT YOU, MR. HAITZ.

SO I YOU WOULD BE THE ONE WHO WOULD HAVE TO COMPLETE THE TRAINING WITHIN 90 DAYS OF YOUR APPOINTMENT.

UH, THE, THE BASIC RULE UNDER THE TEXAS BILL QUESTION, DID HE GET, SIR, DID HE GET NOTIFIED BY THAT OR IS HE JUST, DID HE JUST GET NOTIFIED BY YOU TELLING I I AM NOT SURE IF HE DO YOU KNOW, IF YOU GOT ANYTHING FROM THE CITY SECRETARY ABOUT, OKAY.

I, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL WOULD YOU OR MATT, WOULD YOU FOLLOW UP? YES.

TO MAKE SURE HE GETS PROPERLY? I DON'T WANT HIM TO MISS THE DEADLINE.

I HAD ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD COME SPEAK, AND SO I EMAILED THEM BACK.

SO THE BASIC RULE UNDER THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS THAT EVERY MEETING HAS TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

AND THE PUBLIC HAS TO HAVE 72 HOURS NOTICE THAT A GOVERNMENTAL BODY WILL MEET.

AND THE REASON FOR THIS IS WE WANNA SEE OUR GOVERNMENT IN ACTION.

SO A MEETING UNDER THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS SORT OF LIKE A MATH FORMULA.

IT IS QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION.

SO IF THERE IS A QUORUM OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND YOU ARE DELIBERATING ON PUBLIC MATTERS, THAT IS A MEETING THAT MUST BE NOTICED IN ORDER TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS OF THINGS THAT ARE NOT MEETINGS WITHIN THE CODE.

THEY INCLUDE LIKE PRESS CONFERENCES, UM, GOING TO NATIONAL CONFERENCES, SOCIAL GATHERINGS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

BUT GENERALLY, IF THERE IS A QUORUM AND YOU ARE DISCUSSING BUSINESS, THAT IS A MEETING THAT MUST BE NOTICED.

UM, AND DELIBERATION INCLUDES IT DELIBERATIONS AND DISCUSSIONS OR SYNONYMS. QUORUMS, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THIS THIRD BULLET POINT DO NOT HAVE TO BE ESTABLISHED IN REAL TIME.

SO AS MS. LAMB WAS ALLUDING TO BEFORE, UH, WE TOOK OUR LUNCH BREAK.

IF A EMAIL IS SENT OUT AND IT HAS A QUORUM OF THE BOARD, AND THE BOARD IS DISCUSSING PUBLIC BUSINESS, IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT THE EMAIL IS READ AT SEPARATE TIMES.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE EMAIL IS READ AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, AN EMAIL CAN BE A QUORUM.

AND IF YOU WERE DISCUSSING PUBLIC BUSINESS, THAT WOULD BE A MEETING, WHICH PRESUMABLY BECAUSE IT'S AN EMAIL CHAIN, WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN NOTICED.

AND SO THAT'S A BIG NO-NO.

SO MARY, WHEN SHE SENDS EVERYTHING OUT, TRIES TO BCC EVERYONE IF SHE ACCIDENTALLY DOESN'T, PLEASE DO NOT HIT REPLY.

ALL IS THE MAIN THRUST OF THIS SLIDE.

THAT IS THE WORST THING INVENTED UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

UH, ON THAT NOTE, MS. MARY, WOULD YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND CIRCULATE THAT OUR TWO SHEETS OF PAPER ON THIS NOTE? UH, I HAD GOTTEN FEEDBACK FROM TWO, UM, UH, CONSULTANTS REGARDING OUR PUBLIC TESTIMONY THIS MORNING THAT COULDN'T COME.

AND THEY,

[03:55:01]

SO I HAD EMAILED MARY, SO SHE'S HANDING OUT, UH, MY EMAIL EXCHANGE.

IT'S JUST SAYING, THANK YOU FOR YOUR FEEDBACK, AND I WILL PASS THAT ON TO THE BOARD FOR INFORMATION.

SO THAT'S JUST SO THAT WE ALL, WE ALL ARE EQUALLY INFORMED.

MR. SASHING, UM, QUICK QUESTION, WHAT CONSTITUTE DISCUSSION? BECAUSE IF AN EMAIL IS SENT BUT THERE'S NO REPLY, IS THAT, IS THAT CONSIDERED DISCUSSION? SO DISCUSSION IF, IF IT'S ONE, IT'S ONE THING IF MARY'S, YOU KNOW, SENDING OUT AN EMAIL THAT HAS THE DOCKET, BUT IT WOULD START TO BECOME AN ISSUE WHEN BOARD MEMBER X SAYS, OH, I WILL NOT BE HERE FOR THE CASE ON TUESDAY.

AND THEN BOARD MEMBER Y SAYS, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE HERE FOR THE CASE ON TUESDAY.

THAT'S WHEN WE CONSIDER THIS AWESOME CASE INVOLVING THIS NON-CONFORMING USE.

UM, THAT THAT'S WHEN IT CROSSES THE LINE.

IT HAS TO BE AN ACTUAL DISCUSSION ABOUT SOME CASE, YOU KNOW.

IS THAT HELPFUL, MR. SINGTON? YES, SIR.

SO WHAT EVERYONE JUST GOT WAS TWO EMAILS.

ONE FROM TOMMY MANN TO ME, ME BACK TO HIM, AND ONE FROM JENNIFER HI MOTO.

AND MY EMAIL FROM JENNIFER, HI MOTO IS JUST SAYING THAT SHE'S ALREADY GIVEN FEEDBACK TO SAM ESKANDAR AND JASON POOLE, AND SHE APPRECIATES OUR EFFORTS TO IMPROVE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ON THE EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN TOMMY MANN AND MYSELF ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE, UH, TWO-SIDED EMAIL, HE'S SAYING HIS MAIN POINT IS MAKING SURE THERE'S ENOUGH TIME ALLOTTED TO APPLICANTS.

THAT WAS HIS MAIN FEEDBACK TO THE BOARD.

MY RESPONSE WAS, WE CHANGED OUR RULES APRIL 12TH TO PROVIDE FIVE MINUTES AND ALSO A FIVE MINUTE REPLY FOR APPLICANTS, BUT THAT IT'S WITHIN THE FLEXIBILITY OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER TO ADJUST THAT TIME AS WE PROVIDED THIS MORNING WITH SPEAKING.

THAT'S UP TO YOU.

BUT THESE ARE THE, THESE, I'M GIVING THIS TO THE BOARD SO EVERYONE'S EQUALLY IN INFORMED ABOUT, ABOUT THAT MARY, NOT MARY, I FORGOT THIS MORNING AT PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

AND THEN AFTER LUNCH I SAID, LET'S DO IT FIRST.

MY FAULT BOTH TIMES.

BUT IT, EVERYONE'S SO INFORMED SO THAT THAT FEEDBACK GOES TO THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY FEEDBACK THAT WE HAD THIS MORNING.

I'M SORRY, DANIEL.

NOW, NOW THAT I FEEL THAT'S TAKEN CARE OF, GIVEN THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EMAILS.

ALRIGHT, I'M GONNA EDITORIALIZE.

NOT A PROBLEM.

UH, WALKING QUORUMS ARE SOMETHING LESS THAN A QUORUM OF A BODY THAT IS ENGAGING IN DISCUSSION PURPOSEFULLY TRYING TO AVOID THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CASE THAT COMES TO MIND, AND IT'S PRETTY WILD WHAT PEOPLE DO, UM, BUT THERE WAS A CITY COUNCIL, I THINK IT WAS SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO, WHERE THE MAYOR HAD INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL MEMBERS COMING INTO THE MAYOR'S OFFICE WHERE THEY WOULD DECIDE HOW THEY'RE GONNA VOTE, AND THEN THEY'D ALL GO OUT TO THE HORSESHOE AND THEN VOTE AND THEN GO BACK.

AND THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE EACH COUNCIL MEMBER INDIVIDUALLY COME IN.

AND THOSE ARE, THEY'RE PURPOSELY TRYING TO AVOID GETTING AROUND THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT BY HAVING SOMETHING LESS THAN A QUORUM.

AND THEY ARE DISCUSSING OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

THOSE ARE WALKING QUORUMS AND THOSE ARE ILLEGAL UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

SO SOME EXAMPLES ARE, LET'S GO BACK ONE SECOND.

PLEASE GO BACK.

ONE CLICK, UM, QUORUM FOR PURPOSES OF THE BOARD.

ACCORDING TO OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR A PANEL, IT'S FOUR, YES, 75% OF THE MEMBERSHIP.

SO THE PANEL MEMBERSHIP IS FIVE, SO REQUIRES FOUR TO START A MEETING.

IT ALSO REQUIRES FOUR TO VOTE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THE FULL BOARD IN SESSION TODAY REQUIRES 12.

IT'S 75% OF THE 15 FULL-TIME MEMBERS.

SO ALTERNATES ARE EQUAL TO A MEMBER.

SO WE STARTED TODAY'S MEETING WITH 17.

MY KEY MAGIC NUMBERS TO ALWAYS HAVE 12.

WE HAVE TWO ONLINE, PLUS THE 15 HERE, SO IT'S 12 FOR THE FULL BOARD, IT'S FOUR FOR THE INDIVIDUAL PANELS.

I DIDN'T WANT TO INTERRUPT, I'M JUST REINFORCING QUORUM.

AND NOW IT'S PART OF OUR RULES.

AT THE BEGINNING OF EVERY MEETING, THE PRESIDING OFFICER DECLARES THEIR QUORUM IS PRESENT, BECAUSE THAT'S PART OF SAYING THAT WE CAN LEGITIMATELY OPERATE.

SOME ADDITIONAL EXAMPLES OF WALK-IN QUORUMS ARE THOSE EMAIL COMMUNICATIONS THAT I DISCUSSED VOTING OVER THE TELEPHONE OR DELIBERATIONS THROUGH A SERIES OF CLOSED MEETINGS.

THAT WAS THE EXAMPLE FROM THE CITY OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO.

SO THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT REQUIRES THAT A NOTICE BE GIVEN AT LEAST 72 HOURS BEFORE.

I KNOW BY RULE, THIS BODY HAS OPTED TO GO FOR SEVEN DAYS PRIOR, BUT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS SORT, IS THE FLOOR WHERE THE LEGISLATURE SAID THIS IS THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF NOTICE THAT A GOVERNMENTAL BODY IN THE STATE OF TEXAS HAS TO PROVIDE.

PART OF THE REASON WHY THE OFFICERS ASKED THE BOARD AND THEN THE COUNCIL TO EXPAND OUR NOTIFICATION TIMETABLE FROM THREE

[04:00:01]

DAYS, OR 72 HOURS TO SEVEN DAYS, MR. AGNES GETS THE CREDIT FOR THIS WAS BECAUSE NO ONE CAN LOBBY US.

AND THE PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S COMING UNTIL IT'S A POSTED DOCUMENT.

AND IF YOU POST IT ON A FRIDAY FOR A MONDAY HEARING, YOU'RE GONNA MISS, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GONNA MISS THAT CASE THAT COMES, EVEN THOUGH THERE SHOULD BE A SIGN IN THE YARD, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S AN ADVERTISEMENT IN THE PAPER.

SO PART OF THE GENESIS, AND I'LL LET YOU FOLLOW UP ON THIS, PLEASE, ROBERT, UH, PART OF THE GENESIS OF OUR SEVEN DAY RULE IS TO GIVE EVERYONE AMPLE OPPORTUNITY OF WHAT'S BECOMING BEFORE THE BOARD, SINCE YOU CAN'T GO LOBBY A PLANNING COMMISSIONER OR A COUNCIL MEMBER.

DID YOU WANNA SAY ANYTHING ELSE, PLEASE? ONLY THAT I CANNOT SAY THANK YOU TO THE STAFF ENOUGH.

THIS IS A, A HUGE WIN FOR US.

IT, IT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TRANSPARENT HEARING WHERE PEOPLE ARE PREPARED.

AND, AND THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR YOUR AVERAGE CITIZEN WHO'S NOT GETTING PAID TO BE THERE.

I MEAN, JUST THINK OF WHAT IT TAKES TO, TO ORGANIZE A CARPOOL.

AND IF, IF OUR MONDAY PANEL WAS NOT RELEASED UNTIL FRIDAY, THAT THAT ISN'T FAIR TO, TO PEOPLE.

SO IT, IT'S A HUGE DEAL.

AND, AND I, I KNOW IT TOOK A LOT OF EFFORT, BUT IT'S, IT'S A BIG WIN.

AND I, AND I THANK YOU.

AND SO DO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO SHOW UP.

SO THOSE NOTICES, BECAUSE THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE HAS THEM ON THE WEBSITE AND THEY'RE AVAILABLE JUST AS A MATTER OF COURSE ON THE INTERNET, THERE'S ACTUAL PHYSICAL COPY.

IF YOU WALK RIGHT OUTSIDE THESE DOORS BY THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE, THERE WILL BE A BIG BINDER WITH ALL THE AGENDAS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UM, IN, IN PHYSICAL FORM VIDEO CONFERENCING.

SO THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE LEGISLATURE OKAYED DURING THE 2021 SESSION AFTER COVI, DURING THE WHOLE COI, ONE OF THE THINGS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE DID WAS SUSPEND PARTS OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT SO THAT BUSINESS COULD CONTINUE TO BE CONDUCTED VIRTUALLY.

BUT WHEN THE LEGISLATURE MET IN 2021, THEY ADOPTED A LOT OF THOSE, UM, AND SORT OF IMPLEMENTED A LOT OF WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HAD DONE DURING COVID.

AND SO THE MAIN CRUX OF IT IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE VIR OR HYBRID MEETINGS ARE PERMITTED, IF IT'S GOING TO BE A HYBRID MEETING, THE CHAIR MUST BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT.

THEY CANNOT BE ONLINE.

AND ANYONE WHO'S GOING TO SPEAK HAS TO HAVE THEIR CAMERA ON AND THEIR AUDIO WORKING BOARD MEMBERS, ON THE OTHER HAND, MUST HAVE THEIR VIDEO AND AUDIO ON CONSTANTLY.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR VIDEO ON, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE NOT REALLY THERE.

WE CAN HEAR YOU, BUT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

OTHER RULES, HOWEVER, THE BIG CAMERA IN THE SKY COUNTS.

SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN, MR. ATCH? THE EYE IN THE SKY COUNTS AS CAMERA.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

SO THAT CAMERA BACK THERE IS SUFFICIENT FOR, UM, TOMA PURPOSES.

SO YOU NEED ALL THREE OF THOSE IN ORDER FOR THE BOARD TO CONSIDER THE CASE.

UM, ONCE THE ME THE, THE BRIEFING AND THE HEARING IS TECHNICALLY ONE LONG MEETING UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

SO WE DON'T ADJOURN AFTER THE BRIEFING.

WE JUST RECESS UNTIL ONE O TO ONE O'CLOCK PUBLIC HEARING, YOU HAVE TO VOTE IN PUBLIC.

UM, THERE'S NO SECRET BALLOTS.

IF THE NOTICE IS INSUFFICIENT, THERE IS NO, WELL, THE NOTICE WAS CLOSED.

NOTICE HAS TO BE SUFFICIENT IN ORDER FOR THE BODY TO CONSIDER IT.

SO IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE, YOU HAVE TO HOLD THE MATTER OVER UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING.

YES, MS. LAMB, I HAVE QUESTIONS.

SO WE HAD THIS MS. LAMB, SORRY, MR. CHAIRMAN.

UM, WE HAD, UM, KIND OF A QUESTION THAT CAME IN FRONT OF OUR PANEL A FEW MONTHS AGO, UH, IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS DEEMED APPROPRIATE PUBLIC NOTICE.

UM, DURING BRIEFING OUR PANEL, UM, NOTICE THAT PROPER SIGNAGE IS, WAS NOT VISIBLE.

AND THEN THE QUESTION BECAME, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF, IF A BOARD HEARS A CASE, THEN THEY HAVE TO TAKE ACTION.

SO IF, LIKE, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU LIKE MAKE THE DECISION WHETHER THE, THE PUBLIC HAS PROPERLY BEEN NOTIFIED AND NOTICED, AND THEN HEARING THE CASE OF WHAT PART OF THE PROCESS.

'CAUSE IF YOU'RE NOTICING A BRIEFING THAT THE, THE SIGNAGE IS NOT THERE, THEN TECHNICALLY PUBLIC HASN'T BEEN NOTICED, BUT THEN WHAT RIGHTS THE APPLICANT HAVE TO PLEAD THEIR CASE? AND WHAT RIGHTS DOES THE PUBLIC HAVE TO HAVE INPUT OR BE NOTIFIED, AND AT WHAT POINT DO WE MAKE A DECISION? SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON THERE, AND I WOULD DISTINGUISH BETWEEN NOTICE UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, WHICH WAS WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING, BUT I'M HAPPY TO HOP INTO THAT.

BUT IN ORDER FOR THE BOARD TO CONSIDER A CASE, IMAGINE YOUR THREE VENN DIAGRAM.

THERE'S, THE NOTICE HAS TO BE SUFFICIENT UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT NOTICE HAS TO BE SUFFICIENT UNDER CHAPTER TWO 11 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, WHICH IS THE ENABLING STATUTE TO CREATE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO, UM, HAVE NOTICE IN THE NEWSPAPER AND SEND OUT NOTICE TO THE 200, TO THE 200 FOOT RADIUS.

AND THEN CHAPTER 51 A REQUIRES NO THE SIGN NOTIFICATION.

[04:05:01]

IF ONE OF THOSE IS MISSING, NOTICE ISN'T SUFFICIENT.

SO IN THAT EXAMPLE, CHAPTER 51 A REQUIRES NOTICE, SIGNS TO BE NOTICE HAS TO, THE, THE SIGNS HAVE TO BE POSTED, UM, ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY.

AND IF THEY ARE NOT THERE, THEN NOTICE ISN'T SUFFICIENT.

THE BOARD UNDER CHAPTER 51 A HAS TWO OPTIONS.

IT CAN HOLD THE CASE OVER OR IT CAN DENY THE CASE, BUT IT'S NOT ABLE TO APPROVE THE CASE AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

AND SO I THINK YOUR QUESTION IS, ASSUMING THE BOARD WANTS TO HOLD THE CASE OVER, DO WE RE ADVERTISE, I GUESS, IN THE NEWSPAPER AND TO THE 200 FOOT RADIUS? NO, I MEAN, MY QUESTION WAS AT THAT POINT, UM, BECAUSE IF IN BRIEFING WE AS A PANEL, EVEN THOUGH IT, IT'S WE'RE JUST BEING BRIEFED, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT APPARENT THAT FULL ALL THREE OF THOSE PILLARS OF NOTIFICATIONS HAPPENED.

WHAT THEN HAPPENS AT ONE O'CLOCK BECAUSE YOU CAN'T REALLY HEAR THE CASE.

'CAUSE IF YOU HEAR THE CASE, THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION.

BUT IF, IF THE PUBLIC HASN'T BEEN PROPERLY NOTICED, 'CAUSE IT'S NOT MEETING ALL THREE OF THE REQUIREMENTS, WHAT ACTION DO WE HAVE AT THAT POINT BASED ON WHAT WE'VE, AS WHAT WE'VE VIEWED IN TERMS OF BRIEFINGS AT 11? YEAH.

ARE YOU, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE, THE VIABILITY OF THE SIGN BEING POSTED AND THAT THAT, HAS THAT BEEN CHECKMARKED? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT? I'M CONFUSED.

IN THIS CASE, IN THIS CASE, THERE WAS NOT PROPER SIGNAGE POSTED.

UM, ISN'T THERE A DETERMINATION THAT THE BOARD EITHER MAKES OR DOESN'T MAKE IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THAT? YES.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

SO, UH, YES, ARTICLE ONE OF CHAPTER 51 A, WHICH IS IN AN ARTICLE THAT BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TYPICALLY GOES INTO, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE NOTICE SIGNS ARE LOCATED, SAYS THAT THE BOARD HAS TO MAKE A DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT THE NOTICE SIGNS ARE SUFFICIENT.

AND THAT COULD ONLY HAPPEN AT THE ONE O'CLOCK PUBLIC HEARING.

AND IF THE BOARD DETERMINES VIA A MOTION THAT THE NOTICE SIGN ISN'T SUFFICIENT, THEN WE'RE INTO THAT TERRITORY OF A DENY OR HOLDOVER FOR, I THINK IT SAYS FOR AT LEAST FOUR WEEKS.

I WOULD DOUBLE CHECK THAT.

BUT SO THEN THE FIRST MOTION BEFORE WE EVEN APPLICANT EVEN MAKES A CASE IS ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS AT THE, WHETHER AT REQUEST OF THE VICE CHAIR OR, OR EVEN THE CHAIR WOULD THEN PUT OUT A MOTION, UM, WHETHER, WHETHER THE PUBLIC, IF THE PANEL DECIDE WHETHER THEY'VE BEEN PROP PUBLIC HAS BEEN PROPERLY NOTICED.

AND IF THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN PROPERLY NOTICED, THEN WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AND HEAR THE CASE.

BUT IF WE DETERMINE AS A PANEL THAT THEY HAVE NOT, THEN WE CAN'T TAKE ANY ACTION EITHER.

OUR ACTION ONLY OPTIONS ARE TO EITHER HOLD THE HOLD OVER THE CASE OR TO DENY RIGHT.

WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

I, UH, I WOULD DOUBLE CHECK THE WITH OR WITHOUT PREJUDICE DENIAL.

BUT THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT IS NOTICES A THRESHOLD INQUIRY THAT JUST HAS TO BE, THOSE THREE BOXES HAVE TO BE CHECKED TOMA CHAPTER TWO 11, THE NOTICE SIGN.

AND IF THEY'RE NOT CHECKED, THEN WE'RE IN THAT TERRITORY OF DENY.

DOES THE APPLICANT THEN GET A CHANCE TO, UM, PLEAD THEIR CASE ON SIGNAGE AND NOTIFICATION OR, BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE GOING OFF OF IS JUST, OKAY.

I I, I THINK I'M UNDER, SO YOU'RE ASKING, ASSUMING THE, THE BRIEFING SHOWS THAT THE, THERE IS NO, JUST NO NOTICE TO SIGN ANYWHERE, OR IT'S A QUESTION OF WHETHER IT'S SUFFICIENT SIGNAGE? MM-HMM.

THAT'S USUALLY WHAT WOULD BE, AND SO YOUR QUESTION IS LIKE, DO WE SORT OF, UM, WHAT IS IT DISENTANGLE THE NOTICE ISSUE FROM THE, LIKE MERITS OF THE CASE? YES.

I SEE.

YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE, I THINK ULTIMATELY A QUESTION FOR THE PRESIDING OFFICER AND HOW THE, AND THE BODY ON HOW THEY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD.

BUT I THINK THE CLEANEST AND EASIEST THING TO DO WOULD SORT OF FIGURE OUT THE NOTICE ISSUE.

IF NOTICE IS NOT SUFFICIENT, THEN MOVE TO THE HOLDOVER DENIED.

IS IT PRESUMED THAT NOTE THAT THE SIGN IS SUFFICIENT IF NO MOTION IS MADE? IT'S JUST PRESUMED, YEAH.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE AN AFFIRMATIVE NOTE MOTION THAT THE SIGNAGE IS.

SO IT'S IN A CASE WHERE A PANEL MEMBER BELIEVES THAT THERE IS A LESS THAN SUFFICIENT SIGNAGE.

IS THAT THE RIGHT WORDS? MM-HMM.

ABILITY TO SAY LIKE, NO, MY SIGN IS SUFFICIENT.

I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S SO AND SO THAT WOULD BE A REQUEST BY A PANEL MEMBER TO THE PRESIDING OFFICER FIRST? YEAH, I RIGHT.

I I THINK ABSENT, UM, A DISCUSSION, IT'S JUST SORT OF PRESUMED THAT THE, THE NOTICE AND TO MS. LAMB'S QUESTION, DOES THE APPLICANT GET TO SPEAK TO THAT, OR ONCE THAT MOTION'S MADE, IS THAT A MOTION FOR THE BODY, NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.

DO YOU SEE, DO YOU SEE THE QUANDARY, MR. MOORE? I, I DO SEE THE QUANDARY.

AND DO YOU WANT, DO YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT AND COME BACK TO US? WELL, I MEAN, I WOULD THINK THAT UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT THAT'S STILL VOTING TO DENY OR HOLD THE MATTER OVER IS STILL AN ACTION THAT THE BOARD IS TAKING, THEREFORE SOMEONE HAS A STATUTORY RIGHT TO SPEAK.

SO IN THIS CASE, THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE THE

[04:10:01]

HERE'S WHY MY SIGN IS SUFFICIENT.

AND I WOULD EVEN SAY THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR WHO SAID, HEY, THAT SIGN ISN'T SUFFICIENT, WOULD GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AND SAY, NO, THEIR SIGN WAS NEVER UP.

BUT AT THAT TIME, WHILE THAT MOTION'S ON THE TABLE, THE ONLY APPLICANT CAN SPEAK TOWARDS THE NOTIFICATION, THE SIGNAGE.

THEY CAN'T SPEAK TO THE MERITS OF THE CASE UNTIL THE MOTION HAS BEEN DETERMINED.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S AN A THRESHOLD MATTER, AND IF THE APPLICANT WANTS TO DIGRESS INTO THE MERITS, I THINK THEY'RE WASTING THEIR TIME.

AND IT'S NOT REALLY WHAT IS GERMANE BEFORE THE BODY AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE BOARD TO SAY LIKE, I MEAN, YOU CAN NUDGE AND WINK, BUT YOU CAN'T, I, I GUESS I'M HESITANT TO RECOMMEND THAT THE PRESIDING OFFICER TELL THE APPLICANT, NO, YOU MUST SPEAK ON THIS TOPIC, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

I, I WOULD THINK THAT SINCE YOU JUST SAID IT, AND I'M GONNA GO TO MS. GABO NEXT, BUT I WOULD THINK SINCE YOU JUST SAID IT'S A THRESHOLD MATTER, YOU CAN'T SPEAK ON THE, THE MERITS OF THE CASE UNTIL AFTER YOU DEAL WITH THE, THE ISSUE THAT WAS BROUGHT BEFORE THE PANEL.

I THINK THAT AN APPLICANT GETS TO USE THEIR FIVE MINUTES, HOW THEY USE THEIR FIVE MINUTES, AND IF THEY, OH, DANIEL.

BUT, BUT THEN POTENTIALLY THEN YOU'RE THEN HAVE TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU'RE ACTUALLY MAKING MOTION ON THE APPLICATION IF THE APPLICANT'S SPEAKING TOWARDS THE MERITS OF THE CASE.

I THINK IF THERE'S A QUESTION OF NOTICE, THE NOTICE ISSUE MUST BE RESOLVED FIRST.

AND IF AN APPLICANT CHOOSES TO IN THAT TIME PERIOD DISCUSS THE MERITS OF THE CASE, I THINK THEY FAILED TO MEET THE NOTICE REQUIREMENT OR FAILED TO ESTABLISH THAT SUFFICIENT NOTICE.

WAS THERE.

ALL RIGHT.

IF I MAY ADD, DIGEST THAT ONE SECOND.

MS. GABO HAS A QUESTION AND THEN WE CAN GO BACK.

SO I MEAN, I, I, I THINK, UM, I THINK WHEN YOU'RE, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND, AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO IS THAT IF WE, IF WE HAVE THAT SITUATION THAT WE WOULD TREAT IT, THEY, THEY WOULD COME BEFORE THE BOARD.

WE WOULD, WE WOULD HEAR THAT CASE DURING OUR BRIEFING.

WE WOULD RAISE THAT QUESTION SO THAT THE APPLICANT IS AWARE.

IF THEY'RE LISTENING TO THE BRIEFING OF WHAT OUR QUESTION IS, WE WILL CALL THEIR CASE FORWARD.

THEY HAVE, THEY'RE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK BASED ON WHAT THEY HEARD.

SO I, I MEAN, AND THEN I THINK YOU, YOU'RE PROBABLY DENYING THE CASE.

I MEAN, I THINK, I GUESS I, I MEAN I'M HEARING TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, WHICH IS IF IT'S A THRESHOLD PIECE THAT WE WOULD ADDRESS THAT BEFORE WE EVER ALLOWED THE APPLICANT TO COME FORWARD.

BUT I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS THE RIGHT TO SPEAK ON IT, WHICH SAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO HANDLE IT SIMILAR TO A HEARING AND YOU'RE, I MEAN, I GUESS YOU WOULD, BUT THEN THE CHALLENGE BECOMES, IF YOU'RE HEARING THE MERITS, THE CASE AND THE APPLICATION ABOUT THE APPLICATION IN ADDITION TO SIGNAGE, BUT YOU'RE NOT, THEN THE BOARD IS OBLIGATED TO MAKE A MOTION ON THE CASE, BUT THEN THE PUBLIC HASN'T REALLY PROPERLY NOTICED.

I, I GUESS THE WAY I'M ENVISIONING IT IS IN THE BRIEFING IT'S LIKE, HEY, YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR SIGN.

APPLICANT COMES UP, GETS TO SPEAK AND EXPLAIN WHY THEY DO OR DO NOT HAVE THEIR SIGN.

AND THEN THE OPPOSITION GETS TO SPEAK ON WHY THEY DO OR DO NOT HAVE THEIR SIGN.

AND THEN THE BOARD CAN DETERMINE, LET'S ASSUME THAT THE BOARD SAYS, HEY, THE SIGN WAS THERE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TEENAGER ACROSS THE STREET TOOK THE SIGN BECAUSE HE WAS MAD ONE DAY.

I DON'T KNOW.

AND THEN, UM, THEN THE APPLICANT IN THOSE SAME OPPOSITION GET ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE BOARD FOR AN ADDITIONAL FIVE MINUTES TO DISCUSS THE MERITS OF THE CASE.

SO NOW YOU'RE SAYING YOU SEPARATE.

YEAH, IT'S, IT'S BECAUSE BEFORE YOU DIDN'T MR. OH, I, I, I, THAT WAS, THAT WAS MY MISTAKE.

THEN I WAS TALKING YOU ABOUT A, SO GO BACK TO MS. GABO.

BUT IF WE, BUT WE WOULD, WE WOULD VOTE ON THE MERITS OF THE SIGN IF WE VOTED TO DENY, WE WOULD NOT HEAR THE MERITS OF THEIR CASE AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

THAT IS 'CAUSE WE ARE SAYING THAT THIS CASE HAS NOT BEEN PROPERLY NOTIFIED, THEREFORE WE CANNOT HEAR TO MAKE A DECISION.

'CAUSE THE PUBLIC HAS NOT HAD TIME.

THAT IS CORRECT.

AND SO, AND AT THAT TIME THEN WE CAN EITHER HOLD THE CASE OVER OR DENY, BUT WE NOW WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THAT DENIAL IS WITH PREJUDICE OR WITHOUT.

AND THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE IN CHAPTER 51 A, THAT IF I HAD A SECOND I COULD FIND THE ANSWER TO REAL QUICK.

SORRY, I KNOW THIS IS VERY NUANCED, BUT THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE.

OKAY, HOLD ON A SECOND.

THANK YOU MS. LAMB FOR A SECOND.

MR. MR. AG, WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST TREAT IT AS IF IT WAS IMPROPERLY NOTICED? YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT ONCE YOU DECIDE IT, IT HASN'T BEEN NOTICED.

YOU'RE DONE.

THAT GOES BACK TO THE, THE THREE VENN DIAGRAMS. YEAH, THAT I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.

IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS INSUFFICIENT UNDER TOOMA OR CHAPTER TWO 11, THEN OH, BUT IT'S A CITY CODE.

THIS IS A 51 A AND 51 A SAYS THIS IS HOW YOU CAN ADDRESS IT.

SO THE PRESIDING OFFICER THEN SAYS, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THIS.

YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES, FINE.

IF YOU WANT TO, YOU SIGN YES, SIGN IT.

FINE.

BUT AT, AT THAT POINT YOU HAVE A VOTE ON, UH, AND LET'S ASSUME THE BOARD VOTES, THE NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN.

BUT IF YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE NOT GONNA STOP THEM FROM TALKING ABOUT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ON THE AGENDA TECHNICALLY,

[04:15:01]

THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS THE PRESIDING OFFICER CAN'T THEN ALLOW ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE MERITS OF THE CASE.

I THINK THAT'S HOW, I THINK IN MY MIND, THAT'S THE CLEANEST WAY, ISN'T THAT BIFURCATED PROCESS.

I THINK THE, THE ONLY TRICK IS IF THERE IS NO MOTION, IT CASE IS DENIED WITH PREJUDICE.

SO YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE A MOTION.

THAT'S RIGHT.

SO I I BUT YEAH.

SO AM I INTERPRETING, BECAUSE I JUST MENTIONED THE VICE CHAIR GABO OFF THE RECORD.

SO NOW I'M PUTTING IT ON THE RECORD.

UM, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE THREE PANELS HANDLE THIS CONSISTENTLY.

WE, WE DON'T IF THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S SOME LEVEL OF CONSISTENCY.

SO AM I HEARING FROM OUR ESTEEMED BOARD ATTORNEYS THAT IN A CASE WHERE THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT PROPER NOTIFICATION VIS-A-VIS THE SIGN THAT IF A PANEL MEMBER RAISES THAT QUESTION AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT CASE BEING CALLED AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER RECOGNIZES THAT PERSON AND A MOTION ON IT THAT IS HANDLED SEPARATE AND BEFORE THE MERITS OF THE CASE? YES.

I WANNA BE, I WANNA BE CONSISTENT HERE.

CHAIRMAN WITH ONE SMALL MINOR ADDENDUM.

I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S NOT EVEN IF A PANEL MEMBER BRINGS UP THE LACK OF SIGN, IF, IF IT, THE LACK OF SIGN IS BROUGHT UP.

WELL, IT IT ONLY COME UP WITH A PANEL MEMBER THOUGH, DANIEL, IF THEY THE ONLY, ONLY ONES THAT HAVE STANDING TO TALK.

BUT DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, IF THE NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET SAYS, I I HEAR YOU.

BUT IT, IT'S NOT RELEVANT.

IT IT, IT HAS TO BE BROUGHT UP BY A PANEL MEMBER.

THOSE, FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, THE PANEL MEMBERS, PANEL MEMBERS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT CAN MAKE A MOTION AND OR VOTE.

BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, DURING THE ONE O'CLOCK PUBLIC HEARING, THE APPLICANT HAS GONE AND EXPLAINED WHY THEIR FENCE IS, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY.

AND THE NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET SAYS, YEAH, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR SIGN UP.

BUT THEN WE HAVE, LET'S GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL, OKAY.

I WANNA MAKE SURE, AND IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO DO THIS NOW, THEN I'LL ASK YOU TO GIVE ME SOMETHING IN WRITING LATER.

BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S A CONSISTENCY IN HOW WE WOULD HANDLE THE HYPOTHETICAL IF THE, IF AN ISSUE IS BROUGHT UP BY A PANEL MEMBER IN FRONT OF THE BOARD.

BECAUSE IF A PUBLIC MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC SAYS SOMETHING, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT CONSIDERED AN ACTION OF THE BOARD UNLESS THE PANEL MEMBER MAKES A MOTION.

CORRECT? CORRECT.

THAT'S THE REALITY.

THAT'S LIKE WE SAID BEFORE, THE PA THE BOARD DETERMINES PUBLIC INTEREST OR THE BOARD DETERMINES WHAT'S NOT CONTRARY TO TO NEIGHBORING PROP PROPERTY OWNERS.

NOT, OKAY.

SO THE PROCESS WOULD BE IS IF A PANEL MEMBER SAYS, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE APPLICANTS SIGN NOT HAVING TO SIGN UP, I THEREFORE MOVE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LANGUAGE WOULD BE.

, I'M, I'M MOVED THAT WE, THAT THERE IS NOT SUFFICIENT NOTIFICATION UNDER THE LANGUAGE, WHATEVER YOU SAY.

IF THE PEN PRESIDING OFFICER RECOGNIZES THE MOTION AND THERE'S A SECOND, THEN THE DISCUSSION IS STRICTLY ABOUT THE SIGN.

THAT I THINK THAT'S THE AND, AND THAT'S NOT BOUNDED BY FIVE MINUTES, 20 MINUTES OR WHATEVER THAT'S BOUNDED BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER DETERMINING THAT ISSUE ONCE THE MOTION IS MADE CORRECT FOR THE SPEAKERS, ONCE THE MOTION'S MADE, I MEAN, ONCE THE MOTION IS MADE, THEN WE JUST DEFAULT TO THE TYPICAL RULES FOR DISCUSSION ON A MOTION.

WELL, THERE ARE NO RULES, THERE'S NO TIME LIMITS ON A MOTION FOR DISCUSSION THERE, THERE IS IN CHAPTER EIGHT.

IT'S FIVE MINUTES.

IT'S WELL, WE'VE NEVER ENFORCED THAT DANIEL, THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT IT WOULD DEFAULT TO.

OFFICERS WAS ABSOLUTELY EVERY TIME WE WANT THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS NOTIFIED FOR A BO APPEAL.

WELL AGAIN, THAT'S THE PRESUMPTION.

THAT'S THE HANDLING PRESIDING OFFICER.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S CONSISTENCY HERE AND YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE, THIS IS CLEAR AS MUD.

SO I'M GONNA MOVE ON.

SO I, I NEED YOU TO COME BACK TO ME, DANIEL, AND OR MATT AND 'CAUSE I I, AND THE THREE OF US NEED TO BE IN AGREEMENT TOO BECAUSE A, B, AND C NEED TO HANDLE IN A FAIR, CONSISTENT WAY.

UNDERSTOOD SHARON? NO, SARAH, WE'RE MOVING ON.

I GOTTA KEEP MOVING.

ALRIGHT, UH, THEN CLOSED MEETINGS.

SO TYPICALLY THE BOARD WOULD ONLY, THE ONLY TIME I'VE SEEN THE BOARD GO INTO CLOSED MEETINGS IS UNDER THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE EXCEPTION.

AND THAT'S WHEN THE BOARD HAS SOMEONE HAS APPEALED A DECISION TO STATE DISTRICT COURT.

BUT UH, THE BOARD IS GOING TO EXECUTIVE SESSION.

YOU FIRST HAVE TO OPEN UP IN A OPEN MEETING, THEN ANNOUNCE YOU'RE GOING INTO CLOSED SESSION.

WOULD YOU GO BACK ONE CLICK PLEASE FOR NOTICE REQUIREMENTS OR ONE MORE PLEASE.

WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WITH MR. POOLE AND THAT AS IT RELATES TO THE NOTIFICATION OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS FOR BUILDING OFFICIAL APPEALS, THERE WAS CONFUSION ABOUT WHETHER THE STAFF SENDS OUT A NOTIFICATION TO THE SURROUNDING 200 FOOT PROPERTY OWNERS OR NOT.

UH, THE CONSENSUS OF THE

[04:20:01]

NOW, THE DIFFERENCE BOARD MEMBERS IS IF YOU'RE A, IT'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING.

CORRECT ROBERT.

AND THAT IS, IF MR. BROOKS IS A PROPERTY OWNER WITHIN THE 200 FEET, YOU'RE GONNA GET NOTIFIED.

BUT YOU CAN'T COME SPEAK DURING THE HEARING OR DURING THE, THE CASE.

YOU CAN AT THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY PORTION, BUT NOT DURING THE CASE.

SO WE CHANGED OUR NOTIFICATION FORMS TO REFLECT THAT.

SO IF HE GETS THAT LETTER, HE'S GETTING NOTIFIED AND HE'S BEING TOLD HE CAN EMAIL HIS OPINION AND, AND HE CAN COME SPEAK.

BUT AT THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, THAT IS THE, WE'VE CHANGED THE FORMS FOR THAT.

I'M JUST SAYING SO THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS ARE, ARE NOTIFIED AS WE GO.

CORRECT CLARIFICATION, DANIEL.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT? NOTIFICATIONS? OKAY, LET'S SEE.

UM, OH, I, LIKE I SAID, THE, THE, THE MAIN, UM, REASON THAT I THINK THE BOARD OF THE, THE MAIN, THE MOST CONCEIVABLE REASON THE BOARD WOULD GO INTO A CLOSED MEETING IS BECAUSE, UH, SOMEONE HAS APPEALED A DECISION TO STATE DISTRICT COURT.

UM, AND THEN IF YOU'RE IN A CLOSED MEETING, MR. CHAIR? YES.

OH, I'M SORRY.

MR. BROOKS.

JUST, UH, I'VE BEEN IN ONE OF THOSE CLOSED SESSIONS BEFORE AND I'M NOT SURE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THERE.

SO THIS WAS, UM, OUTSIDE ATTORNEY WAS REPRESENTING PANEL A ON A CASE THAT I DID NOT SIT ON AS AN ALTERNATE, BUT I WAS SITTING ON THE PANEL THAT DAY WHEN THEIR LAWYER CAME IN.

SO I WOULD JUST URGE THE STAFF TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NOT SOMEONE IN THAT, UH, EXECUTIVE SESSION DESTROYING PRIVILEGE.

I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING, BUT I, I REALIZED LATE THAT I PROBABLY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THERE.

AND FOR THE NON-LAWYERS ON THE BOARD, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD, IT WOULD COME UP.

I THINK'S, I THINK YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE IN THERE BECAUSE THE, THE CASE REPRESENTS THE PANEL AND DOESN'T, IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO MEMBERS.

SO IF YOU WERE ON THE PANEL THAT DAY, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER YOU HEARD THE CASE PREVIOUS THAT WAS IN QUESTION EXECUTIVE SESSION.

YOU ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT PANEL REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU HEARD THE CASE OR EVEN MADE A MOTION ON THE PREVIOUS CASE.

UH, THAT THAT MAY BE THE CASE.

I, I'D BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IF I WASN'T ON THE, IF I'M AN ALTERNATE AND I WASN'T ON THE BOARD, THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THE LAWSUIT.

SHOULD I BE IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION NOW? THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

RECEIVING GUIDANCE FROM THE ATTORNEY, THAT'S THE, I THE WAY I WOULD THINK ABOUT IT IS THE CASE IS STYLED, YOU KNOW, PLAINTIFF VERSUS CITY OF DALLAS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.

SO AS A MEMBER OF THAT PANEL, IT IT'S NOT, IT'S YOU'RE NOT BEING SUED IN YOUR INDIVIDUAL CAPACITIES.

IT'S, YOU'RE IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A BOARD MEMBER.

SO AS A BOARD MEMBER, YOU COULD BE IN THE CLOSE SESSION WITHOUT BREAKING THE PRIVILEGE.

O OKAY, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE.

'CAUSE IT, IT JUST, OKAY, MS. HAYDEN PARTICIPATED WAS A NEW MEMBER TO PANEL A DURING A CASE, I'LL, I WON'T, WON'T STATE THE NAME OF THE CASE.

AND SHE CAME IN ON THE SECOND HALF OF IT AND YOU AS YOU VERY WELL.

AND SHE KNEW LITTLE ABOUT THE CASE BEING CAME UP TO SPEED SO SHE COULD VOTE ACCORDINGLY.

SO, UM, BUT I THINK IT'S, ONCE YOU'RE ASSIGNED TO THE PANEL FOR THAT MEETING, YOU ARE EQUAL TO EVERYONE IN THE ROOM.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

YEAH, THAT'S THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT.

LIKE I SAID, THE CASE WOULD BE STYLED, YOU KNOW, PLAINTIFF VERSUS CITY OF DALLAS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE IN, IN THAT CASE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I WAS PART OF THE PANEL THAT HEARD THE ORIGINAL CASE, BUT ONCE I WAS REMOVED FROM THAT PANEL, I WAS NO LONGER PARTICIPATING IN EXECUTIVE SESSION BECAUSE I NO LONGER REPRESENT THAT PANEL.

SO IT FOLLOWS THE PANEL AND NOT THE INDIVIDUALS.

MR. BROOKS, YOU ALSO AS AN ALTERNATE, DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU'LL BE CALLED THE NEXT MONTH WHEN IN FACT IT IS HEARD.

SO THERE'S THERE'S NOTHING WRONG.

I I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY YOU COULDN'T BE IN THERE BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT THE PERSON WHOSE PLACE YOU ARE TAKING.

RIGHT, BUT THIS WAS A CASE THAT WAS IN DISTRICT COURT AND IT WASN'T COMING BACK TO THE OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT COULD COME BACK TO THE BOARD.

OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH.

FAIR ENOUGH.

OF THE CLOSED SESSION, UH, TAPE RECORDING THAT CAN ONLY BE UNSEALED BY A JUDGE.

THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON THEY'RE HAVING THE EXECUTIVE SESSION IS TO LET YOU KNOW, RIGHT? I MEAN, THERE'S LIKELY ACTION TO BE TAKEN AND THEN TOMA REQUIRES THAT THE BOARD KEEP A COPY OF MINUTES THAT, SO THAT'S WHY WE DO THEM.

MINUTES ARE REQUIRED.

AND, UM, TOOMA BEGS THE QUESTION OF THE RETENTION OF DOCUMENTS TOO, RIGHT? TOOMA ALSO REQUIRES THAT WHEN YOU MEET IN ENCLOSED, UH, SESSION, THAT YOU HAVE EITHER A TAPE RECORDING OR A CERTIFIED AGENDA.

BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO'VE READ CHAPTER EIGHT, COUNSEL TELLS US THAT IT HAS TO BE A TAPE RECORDING.

SO THAT'S WHY WE RECORD THE CLOSED SESSIONS.

UM, THE, THE, UH, LIKE BRADY EXPLAINED, UM, ALL OF THAT INFORMATION IS OPEN AND CAN BE INSPECTED BY THE PUBLIC, WITH THE EXCEPTION

[04:25:01]

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS ALL.

I HAVE ONE, HOLD ON ONE SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

SO DANIEL, IS THAT COMPLETE YOUR SESSION? YES, IT DOES.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE? I'VE GOT MR. AGNES FIRST.

SO THINK ABOUT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE? VICE CHAIRMAN, AGNES? OKAY, SO THE, THE SESSION WE HAVE IN THE MORNING IS THE BRIEFING, BUT THAT IS A PUBLIC MEETING TRUE UNDER TOOMA.

IT'S ONE LONG MEETING, SO WE CAN ALL GO ON A WEBSITE AND HEAR THE ONE O'CLOCK.

YOU CAN SEE THE ONE O'CLOCK.

BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, YOU CAN'T SEE THE MORNING SESSION.

I DON'T.

OH, IF YOU CAN THEN I'M, THEN FORGET THE QUESTION.

I I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SEE THE RECORDING OF THE MORNING SESSION, BUT IF IT IS THERE, THEN I'M ON.

I KNOW YOU CAN, YOU CAN STREAM THE, THE BRIEFINGS.

I DO THEM.

UM, I I MEAN THE, THE LIKE AFTER THE FACT, LIKE, LIKE WE ARCHIVE, RIGHT? OUR, OUR ONE O'CLOCK MEETINGS, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE DON'T ARCHIVE THE MORNING.

I, I I THINK THEY'RE JUST NOT PLACED ONLINE, BUT THEY ARE SAVED.

I KNOW THAT, UH, WHAT IS IT ON L TWO? THE ARCHIVIST HAS COPIES GOING BACK, I ASSUME FOREVER.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE REGARDING, UH, TEXAS OPEN MEETING ACT? I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, MS. LAND, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ANSWERED TODAY.

IT MAY BE ANSWERED IN REGARDS TO THE QUESTION WE WERE DISCUSSING EARLIER TO, TO THE CHAIRMAN.

BUT IF THE BOARD DETERMINES IN THE OPEN, IN THE, IN THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT PROPER NOTIFICATION HASN'T HAPPENED, IS THEN THE ONLY ACTION TO BE DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE WHERE THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AND RE-NOTICE OR WOULD A HOLDOVER THEN, BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO RE-NOTICE WITH THE HOLDOVER BE SUFFICIENT BECAUSE THE WHOLE THING IS PUBLIC NOTICE, SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ANSWERED NOW, IT COULD BE PART OF IT, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE, IIII, I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION AND I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER OR NOT THE ISSUE FOR THE NOTICE IS THE SIGN OR NOT.

BECAUSE THE SIGN IS SORT OF, I KEPT USING THIS THREE VENN DIAGRAM PART THREE THING, BUT THE SIGN IS SOMETHING DEVELOPED ONLY IN CHAPTER 51 A AND CHAPTER 51 A SAYS, HERE'S WHAT THE BOARD CAN DO.

THE TOMA IN CHAPTER TWO 11 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE DO NOT PROVIDE THAT.

SO IF IT'S A NOTICE THAT IS INSUFFICIENT UNDER TOOMA OR CHAPTER TWO 11, THE ANSWER IS YOU CAN'T JUST HOLD IT OVER.

IT HAS TO BE RETIC.

I SEE.

SO IT DEPENDS ON WHERE IT STANDS.

RIGHT, THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND, AND SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS SECTION? AND, AND WE WILL BE GETTING ADVICE OF COUNSEL ON THE PROCESS FOR THIS SCENARIO THAT WE WENT THROUGH, BECAUSE AGAIN, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE OFFICERS AND THE, AND EACH OF US AS RESPECTIVE PRESENTING OFFICERS ARE IN AGREEMENT ABOUT HOW WE'RE GONNA HANDLE THAT.

SO THERE'S SOME LEVEL OF CONSISTENCY AND WE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE GET SOLID ADVICE ON THAT SO THAT WE ARE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD IN THAT.

ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS? YES, SIR.

UM, PARLIAMENT PROCEDURE, ARE YOU HANDLING IT OR IS MR. BURGESS HANDLING IT? IT LOOKS LIKE, LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE HANDLING IT.

MR. MOORE.

I THINK YOU CAN HANDLE ROBERT'S RULES.

SO THEIR BASIC PRINCIPLE IS TO ALLOW THE MAJORITY TO DECIDE, BUT GIVE THE MINORITY THEIR RIGHTS, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, VOICE THEIR OPINION.

I'M RUNNING OUT OF FILLER MATERIAL.

THERE ARE FOUR TYPES OF MOTIONS.

FOR THE BODY TO CONSIDER IMMEDIATELY.

THANK YOU SIR.

OH WAIT, THIS IS, OH, LOOK AT THAT.

MAJORITY TO THE SIDE OF MINORITY TO BE HEARD, HUH? PROCEED.

MR. MOORE, ON BEHALF OF MR. BURGESS.

THANK YOU CHAIRMAN.

UH, THE IDEA IS JUST TO MAKE THE MEETINGS EFFICIENT AND TO GET THROUGH THEM IN A TIMELY MANNER.

THERE ARE FIVE TYPES OF MOTIONS.

DID I SAY FOUR? UH, THERE'S MAIN MOTION, SUBSIDIARY PRIVILEGE, INCIDENTAL AND RECONSIDERATION.

MAIN MOTION IS THE, JUST LIKE IT SOUNDS, IT'S THE MAIN MOTION.

A SUBSIDIARY MOTION WOULD BE LIKE AN AMENDMENT TO THE MAIN MOTION.

IT WOULD BE, UM, A HOLDOVER MOTION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

A PRIVILEGED MOTION IS NOT RELATED, BUT IT'S SOMETHING

[04:30:01]

UM, THE EXAMPLE THAT I'VE HEARD IS THAT IT'S SO HOT IN THIS ROOM.

CAN WE MOVE TO ANOTHER ROOM? UM, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, A MOTION TO ADJOURN.

A MOTION TO ADJO IS A PRIVILEGED MOTION.

YES IT IS.

AND THEN DON'T YOU ANYONE MAKE THAT MOTION YET? .

SEE NOW IF I SAID THAT AT THREE O'CLOCK I'D BE, I'D BE DEAD MAN.

WALKING .

SO LET'S KEEP MOVING.

LET'S GO.

UH, MR. CHAIR, I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT NO, NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT RECOGNIZED THAT SASHING, MR. SASHING, UH, I THOUGHT THAT THE CHAIR OF THE MEETING WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAD A PRIVILEGED MOTION TO ADJOURN.

INTERESTING.

ANY, ANY, ANY MEMBER, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, ANY MEMBER OF THE PANEL OR OF THE BOARD HAS EQUAL STANDING IN MAKING A MOTION.

NOW, ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER SAYS YOU CAN'T MAKE A MOTION UNLESS YOU'RE RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIR.

SO , MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I I DO BELIEVE THE PRIVILEGED MOTION, THOUGH THE DEFINITION IS SUCH THAT ANYBODY CAN MAKE IT.

NO, I SAID THAT.

OH, OKAY.

I SAID ANYONE CAN MAKE A MOTION, BUT LIKE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE, UH, RECOGNIZED TO MAKE A PRIVILEGE.

UM, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE ALLOWED TO SPEAK UNLESS YOU'RE RECOGNIZED.

PERIOD.

THE END.

NOW THE, YEAH.

SO NOW THAT'S AN UNRULY CHAIR, BUT, BUT, UH, THE IDEA OF A PRIVILEGED MOTION IS IT SUPERSEDES ALL OTHER MOTIONS, CORRECT? DANIEL? MR. MUL, UH, A MOTION TO ADJOURN.

A PRIVILEGED MOTION SUPERSEDES YES.

AND THEN A MOTION TO ADJOURN IS LIKE A SUPER PRIVILEGED MOTION.

DON'T BE DOING THAT NOW.

OH, NO, FINNEY, YOU'RE, I'M NOT GONNA RECOGNIZE HIM.

YOU AND SASHING ARE, YOU KNOW, I GOT, I'M GONNA GET A NECK HER.

I'M SORRY.

MR. FINNEY.

UH, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIR? SO YOU NOTICE, YOU NOTICE HOW I'M HANDLING THIS TODAY, THAT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SPEAK UNLESS THE CHAIR SAYS MR. FINNEY, THAT'S BEING RECOGNIZED.

MR. SASHEN IS BEING RECOGNIZED.

IT'S AN, IT'S AN ATTEMPT TO MAINTAIN ORDER ORDERLY IN CITY COUNCIL.

THE MAYOR SITS HERE, AND LITERALLY BEFORE YOU SPEAK, YOU HAVE TO PUSH A, A WANNA SPEAK BUTTON.

AND IT SHOWS UP ON A SCREEN AND ALL THE MEMBERS SEE THEIR NAMES AND THE MAYOR LITERALLY CALLS OFF THAT LISTING OF SPEAKING.

SO FOR COUNCIL MEETINGS, THERE IS A BUTTON SEQUENCE PROCESS FOR THIS.

IT'S MY EYES AND THESE TWO SAYING, YOU KNOW, KATHLEEN WANTS TO SPEAK OR RODNEY WANTS TO SPEAK, OR, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF THING.

BUT THE OLD CONCEPT OF RECOGNITION IS AN ORDERLY PROCESS.

DID I STALL LONG ENOUGH FOR YOU? THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.

UH, SO THE MAIN MOTION, DON'T BE DOING THAT.

SARAH, YOUR NAME'S ON HERE.

IS IT REALLY STILL? OKAY.

WELL, THAT'S I'M PAST TENSE.

OKAY, GO AHEAD.

UH, THE MAIN MOTION BEGINS, DEBATE MUST BE SECONDED.

AND THEN DISCUSSION IS RELATED TO THE, THE MOTION.

AND THEN AS I THINK THE BOARD KNOWS, OUR OFFICE CAN HELP IN PREPARATION OF THE MOTIONS.

UH, EVERY MEMBER HAS TO VOTE YES OR NO UNLESS YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

AND INTERESTINGLY, THIS IS UNDER CHAPTER EIGHT, A MEMBER WHO IS PRESENT IN A MEETING BUT DOESN'T VOTE IS PRESUMED TO A VOTE.

AND THEY HAVE TO, UM, BUT PONDER THAT A SEC.

I HEAR SOME INTERESTING.

SO MR. SASHING IS IN THE ROOM.

IF WE GO TO A VOTE AND HE LEAVES THE ROOM TO GO TO THE RESTROOM, THAT'S CONSIDERED AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE, UNLESS YOU'RE EXCUSED BY THE CHAIR.

THAT'S UNDER ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDERS.

AND THEN CHAPTER EIGHT GOES ONE STEP FURTHER AND SAYS THAT EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT EXCUSED, LIKE YOU CAN'T WALK VOTES IN THE CITY HOUSE.

AND THAT'S TO PREVENT WALKING VOTES.

THAT'S WHY YOU GUYS GET PAID TO MAKE VOTES.

I WAS PICKING ON YOU ROGER.

JUST LUNCH, RIGHT? IS TO MAKE THESE TOUGH DECISIONS, KEEP THEM IN CHAIR.

RACHEL, MR. CHAIR.

IT SEEMS LIKE ONE TIME I WAS IN A MEETING WHERE SOMEBODY ATTEMPTED TO LEAVE THE BUILDING BECAUSE, UH, THE PANEL WOULD NOT ALLOW, UH, THAT MEMBER TO VOTE PRESENT AND THAT WOULD'VE KILLED THE QUORUM.

THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS PRESENT, RIGHT? 'CAUSE HE, HE DIDN'T WANNA VOTE.

WELL, SO, OKAY.

SO HE GOT UP.

I, I DON'T, ANYWAY, I, MY INTERPRETATION IS, AS YOU JUST STATED, IS THAT, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE BECAUSE IT WAS AN EXCUSE.

DEBATABLE AMENDABLE MAJORITY VOTE.

MR. SASHING, I'M SORRY, LAST QUESTION.

SO A VOTE TO, OR A MEMBER'S THIS STATING THAT THEY WISH TO ABSTAIN, CAN I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT COULD IN TURN BE ACCEPTED AS OR DEEMED A VOTE TO THE AFFIRMATIVE? YEAH, UN UNLESS THERE'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM VOTING.

IF YOU SAY PRESENT OR ABSTAINING, THAT'S A VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION.

CONTINUE.

THESE ARE GOOD QUESTIONS.

UH, SO POSTPONING TIME, POSTPONING THE MOTION HOLDS IT OVER TO ANOTHER ITEM.

IT'S, UM, REQUIRES

[04:35:01]

A SECOND.

ALL THOSE THINGS, UH, AMENDMENTS ARE AMENDMENTS TO THE MAIN MOTION.

YOU CAN, SAME THING, YOU KNOW, DEBATABLE, AMENDABLE, BUT YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE AMENDMENT TO THE AMENDMENT.

AND THEN, UM, CONTRARY MOTION, CONTRARY AMENDMENTS OR OUT OF ORDER.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE MOVES TO DENY AN APPLICATION, YOU CAN'T MAKE AMENDMENT TO SAY NOT DENY.

THAT'S JUST A, THAT'S A CONTRARY MOTION.

AND THAT'S OUT OF ORDER.

THAT'S WHEN YOU JUST VOTE AGAINST THE, SO ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDERS DOES NOT RECOGNIZE FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS.

CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

YET WE USE IT ALL THE TIME.

THAT IS, YES.

THAT'S THE PRACTICE IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

I'M JUST SAYING SO THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS.

I'LL GET MS. LAMB AND MR. KOVI.

UH, THE, SO THE FRIEND, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF FRIENDLY AMENDMENT IS SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE RIGOR.

AND, UH, THAT'S A FUNCTION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER AND MAKING SURE THE PANEL ALL UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE'RE DOING.

LIKE THERE'S NO SLIDE OF HAND.

IT'S JUST, WILL YOU, MR. FINNEY, WILL YOU AGREE THAT YOU'LL MODIFY THIS AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT? AND AS LONG AS HE NODS AND PERSON THAT SECONDS IT NODS, THEN THAT'S CONSTRUED AS FRIENDLY, FRIENDLY, SOMEONE CAN OBJECT AND THEN YOU HAVE TO UNWIND IT ALL.

OKAY, I'VE GOT MS. LAMB THEN.

MR. OVITZ, MS. LAMB, A MOTION THAT'S ON THE FLOOR THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SECOND ISN'T TRULY A MOTION.

CORRECT? IT THAT MOTION WOULD JUST FAIL FOR LACK OF SECOND.

HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

'CAUSE THAT'S PRETTY DRAMATIC.

SOMEONE MAKES A MOTION TO APPROVE AND NO ONE ELSE AGREES TO IT.

IT DIES FOR LACK OF SECOND.

SO THEN WOULD YOU HAVE TO RETRACT YOUR MOTION OR NO? IT JUST DIES.

IT JUST, IT NEVER EXISTED.

MR. HAITZ DOES A MOTION TO AMEND REQUIRE ACCEPTANCE BY THE PERSON WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL MOTION? IT DOES NOT, BUT IT DOES REQUIRE A SECOND.

IT, IT DOES REQUIRE A SECOND.

AND THEN THE, TO THE CHAIRMAN'S POINT ABOUT THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS, THAT'S SORT OF WHAT WE, JUST WHAT I ALLUDED TO ON THE FIRST SLIDE, THAT ROBERT'S RULES IS TO MAKE THE MEETINGS MORE EFFICIENT, FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS ACCOMPLISH THAT.

SO WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE, THE RIGMAROLE OF, OF VOTING ON THE AMENDMENT IF SORT OF THE BODY ALL AGREES TO IT.

SO NOT TO BE REDUNDANT, BUT TO BE, MY WIFE TELLS ME I DO THAT ALL THE TIME.

UH, REMEMBER THAT IN ORDER FOR US TO APPROVE AFFIRMATIVELY ANYTHING, IT TAKES FOUR VOTES NOW TO POSTPONE, HOLD OVER, AMEND.

AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST A SIMPLE MAJORITY.

SO IF YOU HAVE FOUR THERE, IT REQUIRES NOT TWO, BUT THREE.

SO IT'S ALWAYS GONNA REQUIRE THREE.

'CAUSE THREE OF FIVE OR TWO OR FOUR DOESN'T CUT IT.

BUT SINCE WE ONLY, WE TRY ALMOST ALWAYS TO MET MEET IN FIVE, IT REQUIRES THREE.

AM I CORRECT? YOU ARE CORRECT.

WITH ONE MINOR EXCEPTION.

THE WAIVER OF THE TWO YEAR PERIOD IS A MAJORITY VOTE PER CHAPTER 51.

OH, OKAY THEN.

SO IF SOMEONE WANTS TO WAIVE FOR THE COMING BACK, OH, IT'S, THAT'S JUST A SIMPLE MAJORITY VOTE.

IT'S A SIMPLE MAJORITY.

OKAY, WELL THERE YOU GO.

NOW, UH, MR. FINNEY ASKED EARLIER ABOUT, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO TRUMP YOU HERE, I'M, I WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS.

MR. FINNEY ASKED EARLIER ABOUT RECOGNITION, HOW, HOW WAS SOMEONE'S RECOGNIZED? THE CHAIR RUNS THE MEETING.

SO I PREPARED THE AGENDA TODAY WORKING WITH JASON, UH, AND MATT, AND I'M EXECUTING THE MEETING TODAY, BUT I'M DOING IT ON BEHALF OF THE BODY.

AT ANY TIME, THIS BOARD FOR THIS SETTING OR YOUR PANEL FOR YOUR PANEL SETTING CAN MAKE A MOTION TO OVERRULE THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR.

AND THAT GIVES POWER.

STOP IT, ROBERT.

THAT GIVES POWER TO THE BODY.

AND THAT'S A SIMPLE MAJORITY VOTE.

SO IF I, IF I MADE A RULING TODAY OR SOMETHING AND THE BODY DIDN'T LIKE IT, AND THAT'S A PRIVILEGED MOTION TOO, DANIEL, THE MOTION TO, TO OVERRULE THE DECISION, THE CHAIR, ALL IT TAKES IS A MAJORITY VOTE.

AND WHATEVER THE PRESIDING OFFICER RULE IS, IS REVERSED.

SO THE POWER STILL RESIDES WITH THE BODY.

NOW, I'VE NEVER BEEN PART OF A SITUATION COUNSEL, PLANNING COMMISSIONER, BOARD OF JUDGE THAT THAT'S HAPPENED.

BUT I'VE GOT MR. SINGTON THEN YOU, SO, BUT THAT'S THE ULTIMATE POWER OF THE BODY IS A MOTION TO REVERSE.

AM I CORRECT, DANIEL? I MEAN THAT IS THE BODY'S CHECK ON THE CHAIR AS TO APPEAR.

YES, ABSOLUTELY.

MR. ASHTON.

SO AS AN EXAMPLE, UM, IF THE CHAIR, IF THE CHAIR DECIDED TO EXTEND THE LENGTH OF TIME FOR, UM, PUBLIC TESTIMONY TO 10 MINUTES AND OUR RULES ALLOW IT, I UNDERSTAND, BUT A MEMBER COULD OH, BUT A MEMBER COULD THEN SAY, I MOVED TO OVERRULE THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR AND EXTENDING YES.

PROCEDURE EXPLICITLY ASSIGNS THAT RIGHT.

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

EVEN IF OUR RULES OF

[04:40:01]

TO THE PRESIDING OFFICE.

OOH, GOOD QUESTION.

YOU COULD APPEAL THAT DECISION TO DV.

YOU KNOW WHAT, JUST ASK .

UH, ALRIGHT, SO THAT'S A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE.

AND WHAT MR. AGNES, VICE CHAIR, AGNES AND VICE CHAIR GABO AND I HAVE TRIED TO DO IS BE ELASTIC ON TIMES TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.

AND YET OUR RULES SAY FIVE MINUTES AND WE, YOU KNOW, ALLOW SOME ELASTICITY.

NOW IF WE HAVE A FULL CROWD AND THAT SORT OF DEAL, IT CHANGES BECAUSE THEN WE CAN'T GIVE FIVE MINUTES TO EVERYONE.

PART OF THE STANDARD THAT OUR ATTORNEYS WILL TELL US IS, IF YOU GIVE 10 MINUTES TO THIS PERSON, YOU GOTTA GIVE 10 MINUTES TO THAT PERSON.

YOU GOTTA BE CONSISTENT.

SO IF YOU'LL NOTICE THIS MORNING, I DIDN'T REALLY CUT OFF ANYONE.

UH, ONE OF THEM.

I SAID WRAP IT UP .

BUT, UM, BUT YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN.

AND THAT APPLIES WITH ANYTHING THAT THE PRESIDING OFFICER DOES.

MR. AGNIS, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THAT CASE AS A PRIVILEGED MOTION, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE RECOGNIZED BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER.

RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS 'CAUSE I'VE NEVER BEEN A PARTY TO THAT.

I HAVEN'T EITHER.

BUT IT, BUT IF IT, MR. MOORE, HOW DOES THAT WORK? LET'S NOT CHASE THAT RABBIT.

IT DOESN'T NOT DEFINE PRIVILEGE.

LET, LET'S NOT CHASE THAT RABBIT.

THE HOPE IS YOUR COLLECTIVE PRESIDING OFFICERS ARE ALWAYS OPERATING ON BEHALF AND INSTEAD WITH THE PANEL AND THE BOARD.

OKAY, KEEP GOING.

UH, I'M, I'M WATCHING PEOPLE FOR QUESTIONS, SO OTHERWISE WE'LL KEEP GOING.

THREE O'CLOCK IS APPROACHING, WHICH IS FOUR O'CLOCK RIGHT AFTER THAT.

AND THAT'S WHEN FINNEY'S GONNA MAKE HIS MOTION TO ADJOURN.

DON'T YOU DARE.

RECONSIDERATION BRINGS BACK A MOTION THAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY VOTED ON.

IT IS INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THE PERSON WHO'S MAKING THE MOTION HAS TO BE ON THE PREVAILING SIDE.

IT REQUIRES A SECOND, BUT THE PERSON WHO SECONDS CAN BE ANYONE.

UH, RECONSIDERATION ADDS AN ADDITIONAL WRINKLE UNDER TOOMA, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A SUBSEQUENT MEETING BECAUSE THAT HAS TO BE NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC THAT THE BODY WILL RECONSIDER THAT IT TYPICALLY, I CANNOT THINK OF AN EXAMPLE WHEN IT WOULD HAPPEN AT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BUT FOR SOME OTHER BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, THEY DO RECONSIDER SOME ACTIONS.

AND BASICALLY THE RULE IS IF YOU WANNA DO THAT, GET WITH STAFF SO THAT IT CAN GET ON THE AGENDA AND BE NOTICED FOR THE PUBLIC FOR PER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, THE DEBATE.

UH, FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS.

ROBERT.

UM, UM, MR. MOORE, GO BACK.

DIDN'T WE CHANGE OUR RULES ON RECONSIDERATION? WE DID.

THESE ARE STRAIGHT FROM ROBERT'S RULES.

GOOD CATCH, CHAIRMAN.

WHAT'S THAT? GOOD CATCH.

NO, NO, I REMEMBER THAT WAS PART OF OUR DISCUSSION LAST YEAR OF HOW WE STRUCTURE THE WHOLE RECONSIDERATION.

OKAY, MR. CHAIRMAN.

SO, SO IF OUR RULES SUPERSEDE ROBERT'S RULES, THEN ROGER CAN'T OVERRULE ME WHEN I, UH, EXTEND THE TIME.

RIGHT? UH, YOU KNOW, I, LET'S NOT CHASE THAT RABBIT.

UM, WELL, LET'S JUST HOPE WE WE'RE COLLEGIAL AND THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ACTING ALWAYS ON BEHALF OF WHAT'S BEST OF EVERYONE INVOLVED.

BUT THE ULTIMATE POWER IS WITH THE BODY.

CONTINUE MR. MOORE, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA CLOSE UP SO WE CAN MOVE ON.

GOT IT.

SO DEBATE, YOU HAVE TO LIMIT YOURSELF TO THE QUESTION UNDER DEBATE.

THIS THIRD BULLET POINT IS, COMES NOT FROM ROBERT'S RULES, BUT FROM CHAPTER EIGHT THAT SAYS YOU CAN ONLY SPEAK TWICE AND FOR NO MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES.

, UH, YOU KNOW, DECORUM.

IT'S THAT EVERYTHING YOU LEARNED IN EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW, YOU LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN.

BE NICE TO THE OTHER BOYS AND GIRLS, RIGHT? SO BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.

WHAT IF NO ONE MAKES, MS. LAMB HAS A QUESTION, UM, ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, FOR THOSE THAT ARE NEW, UM, ONCE THE DEBATE PORTION, THE MOTION PORTION OF THE, UM, OF THE PROCEEDINGS AS OCCURRED, THEN PUBLIC TESTIMONY IS OFF.

'CAUSE OFTENTIMES YOU'LL SEE PUBLIC WANNA CHIME IN AND SAY, BUT THIS, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE, MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE, THOSE THAT ARE NEW HERE, THAT THERE'S NO MORE PUBLIC COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION AS PART OF THE DEBATE.

ONCE A MOTION'S ON THE FLOOR, RIGHT? THAT'S SORT OF IMPLICIT IN THE MOTION IS THAT IT'S THE BODY WHO IS NOW MAKING DECISION AND THE PUBLIC HEARING PORTION IS CLOSED.

A LOT OF TIMES APPLICANTS AREN'T AWARE.

THEY FEEL LIKE THEY CAN STILL, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES STILL AT THE MICROPHONE WHEN WE'RE, WHEN MOTIONS ON THE FLOOR, THEY FEEL LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S STILL AN OPPORTUNITY FOR TESTIMONY.

SO MR. EMERITUS, IS THAT A ABSOLUTE OR IS THAT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER? SO, I MEAN, I THINK BECAUSE I'VE HEARD TESTIMONY AFTER THAT HAPPENS, WE THERE, I CAN THINK OF SOME EXAMPLES OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHERE THAT HAS OCCURRED.

UH, I LIKE TO THINK THOSE WERE THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

THE RULE, I THINK AS MS. LAMB EXPLAINED IT IS, OKAY, ONCE THE MOTION IS MADE, THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY UNDERSTAND HAS ENDED.

I UNDERSTAND.

AND MS. LAM, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

OFTENTIMES THE, UH, THE APPLICANT IS AT THE, AT THE PODIUM WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

SO ONE WAY TO, UH, POLITELY AND EFFECTIVELY DEAL WITH THAT IS TO GO AHEAD AND ALLOW THEM TO SIT DOWN, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU.

YOUR TEST

[04:45:01]

FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.

SO-AND-SO PLEASE HAVE A SEAT.

AND, AND THEN THEY'RE AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE.

SO SOME FREQUENT, IT'S A GOOD TIP.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, WHAT IF THE BODY FAILS? WHAT IF NO ONE MAKES A MOTION? THEN THE STATUS QUO IS PRESERVED.

AND THE, OR THE BOARD'S RULES DEFAULT TO A DENIAL.

WITH, WITH, WITH WITHOUT.

IS IT WITH I DON'T, WE, WE WENT BACK.

SO IT'S WITH, WITH PREJUDICE.

THANK YOU CHAIRMAN.

SO A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL SEE, UH, MEMBERS THAT, UM, A MOTION WILL FAIL THREE TO TWO, WHICH MEANS IT'S DENIAL WITH PREJUDICE.

AND SO YOU'LL HEAR A PRESIDING OFFICER RES RESUSCITATE THE MOTION AND OR SOMEONE ELSE WILL SAY, WELL, I MOVED TO HOLD OVER AND THEN IT WINS THREE TO TWO.

OR MAYBE IT DOESN'T.

BUT A THREE TO TWO DENIAL IS WITH PREJUDICE, WHICH MEANS THEY CAN'T COME BACK FOR TWO YEARS.

SO SOMETIMES THEN IT MAY BE THREE TO TWO, DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE, WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO COME BACK THE FOLLOWING DAY.

DO YOU, DOES EVERYONE GRASP THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO REAPPLY? YES.

YOU'D HAVE TO REAPPLY IF YOU'RE A MOTION TO DENIAL WILL EITHER BE WITH OR WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

A THREE TO TWO, A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT FAILS.

THREE TO TWO THEN REQUIRE, IF NOTHING ELSE HAPPENS, THEN IT'S WITH PREJUDICE.

BUT TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IF IT, IF AN AFFIRMATIVE MOTION OR MOTION TO APPROVE FAILS THREE TO TWO OR FAILS FOUR, WHATEVER, THEN THE NEXT MOTION IS, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE OR WITH PREJUDICE.

IF AT SOME POINT EVERYTHING IS EXHAUSTED AND NOTHING IS PASSED, THEN IT DEFAULTS TO DENIAL WITH PREJUDICE.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN.

OH, YES.

OH YES, WE HAVE.

NOT BY DEFAULT.

WELL, MAYBE NOT BY DEFAULT, NO.

END OF THE DISCUSSION WITH THE PUBLIC, THE, THE BOARD HAS A PUBLIC DISCUSSION.

UH, BUT YEAH, QUESTIONS ON THAT.

AND AGAIN, WHEN, WHEN THE TERM WITH PREJUDICE MEANS THEY CAN CANNOT COME BACK FOR TWO YEARS, BUT I GUESS THE THEORY BEHIND THAT IS THAT THE APPLICANT HASN'T MADE THE CASE BECAUSE NOBODY'S PUT A MOTION FORTH.

SO THEREFORE THAT'S WHERE THE, YOU DEFER TO WITH, WITH PREJUDICE OR, OR, OR THE BODY IS CONFLICTED AND CAN'T DECIDE.

BUT I MEAN, A MOTION STOOD, UM, MR. MOORE, SO JUST TO BE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION HERE IS WHAT HAPPENS IF NO ONE MAKES A MOTION? SO IF NO MOTION IS BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR, THEN THAT APPLICATION IS DENIED.

WITH PREJUDICE, RIGHT? IF, IF NO MOTION IS BROUGHT AND THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED, OR IF THERE ISN'T A SUFFICIENT VOTE ON APPROVAL OR DENIAL WITH OR WITHOUT PREJUDICE, AND IN THE MEETING, THE, THE BODY JUST ADJOURNS THE MEETING.

SO, AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, MR. SING, YOUR OFFICERS HAVE INFORMALLY TAKEN THE POSITION THAT WE TRY NOT TO MAKE MOTIONS, NUMBER ONE 'CAUSE WE WANT THE BODY TO MAKE A MOTION.

NUMBER TWO, WE TRY TO SPEAK LAST ON A MOTION, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE WE WOULD NOT LET A CASE GO HANGING THAT WE, IN THAT NAR SCENARIO, WOULD GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION.

BECAUSE WITHOUT, I MEAN, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S A SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC TO JUST HAVE SOMETHING HANGING AND THEN GO INTO DEFAULT.

UM, BUT I MEAN, I TRIED RARELY TO MAKE A MOTION.

'CAUSE I, YOU KNOW, SO YEAH, I'VE MADE MOTIONS, UM, ON CASES WHERE I WAS CONFLICTED ON HOW I FELT ABOUT IT.

BUT I'M, I, I, SOMETIMES I MAKE A MOTION.

MOST TIMES I, IN THAT CASE, I JUST MAKE THE MOTION THAT I, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS, JUST SO IT DOESN'T, SO SOMETHING PUTS BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY.

MR. HOPKOS, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT SINCE I HAVEN'T SAT IN ANY ACTUAL MEETINGS, UH, YET.

WHAT, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL FORM? SO YOU HEAR THE TESTIMONY AND THEN THERE'S A MOTION CALL, A CALL FOR THE QUESTION, OR A MOTION TO WHAT, WHAT ACTUALLY IS DONE? SO I'M GONNA TRY TO BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE.

IN THE MORNING, BETWEEN 10 30 AND 1215, WE HAVE A BRIEFING WHERE THE STAFF GOES THROUGH ALL THE CASES AND THE, THE MEMBERS QUESTION THE STAFF, NOT THE PUBLIC.

THAT'S THE MORNING THAT IS ON THE RECORD.

BUT IT'S, IT'S KIND OF A CONVERSATION WHERE THEY TELL US WHAT THEY THINK AND WHY AND HOW, SO FORTH.

AT ONE O'CLOCK, A PUBLIC HEARING'S CALLED, WE REVIEW AND APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES, AND THEN WE GO CASE BY CASE.

THE STAFF IS NO NOW SECONDARY.

AND OUR CONVERSATION IS WITH THE APPLICANT AND ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC.

SO THE APPLICANT COMES IN AND MAKE A PRESENTATION.

THE WE ASK QUESTIONS BACK AND FORTH.

UM, AT THE END OF THE QUESTIONS, THE PRESIDING OFFICER TYPICALLY WILL SAY, I'D ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

AND IT'S BASICALLY ASKING THE BODY TO MAKE A MOTION, JUST LIKE MR. SINGTON SAID.

SO HE'LL GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE OR TO DENY.

AND THEN ONCE THAT'S MADE, WHICH MEANS AT THE

[04:50:01]

IT'S NOT IN THE BACK ROOM, IT'S ALL PUBLIC.

AND WE DISCUSS THE MERITS OF THE CASE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

AND THEN WHEN THE PRESIDING OFFICERS, I GOT YOU, MS. LAMB, JUST ONE SECOND.

WHEN THE PRESIDING OFFICER SEES THAT THE DEBATE IS DONE, CALLS FOR A VOTE, AT THAT TIME, THE BOARD SECRETARY DOES A ROLL CALL AND YOU HAVE TO VOTE VERBALLY.

SO WHEN IS THE MATTER OF WITH OR WITHOUT PREJUDICE? AT THE TIME WHEN THE MOTION'S MADE, WHOEVER MAKES THE MOTION, IF I MAY, WOULD SAY, MS. LAMB, JUST A SECOND.

SO CAN YOU JUST GIMME AN EXAMPLE? I MOVE.

SO IF, IF THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE, THE BODY THINKS, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK ON GETTING PUBLIC INPUT, SO MR. SASH, YOU'LL JUST PICK ON YOU.

ROGER, MR. SACH SAID, I MOVE TO DENY, BUT WITHOUT PREJUDICE, THAT'S A SIGNAL TO THE A TO THE APPLICANT.

GO BACK AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

YOU CAN COME BACK TOMORROW OR IN A MONTH OR TWO, BUT YOU HAVEN'T DONE YOUR HOMEWORK.

WE'VE HAD A SITUATION WHERE WE'VE MO MO MADE A MOTION TO DENY WITH PREJUDICE 'CAUSE WE FELT THAT THE APPLICANT EITHER WASN'T TRUTHFUL TO US OR WAS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY.

LOOK AT ALL THESE HEADS TURNING SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS, AND WE SAID, NO, WE'RE GONNA CALL TO THAT.

I'VE GOT MR. MS. LAMB AND THEN MR. SLAVE IN REGARDS TO THE MOTIONS.

UM, WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN THE CITY, THE STAFF BRIEFING AND THE HEARING IS THE CITY ATTORNEY OR THE BOARD ATTORNEY WILL DRAFT UP THE MOTIONS IN REGARDS TO EACH PARTICULAR CASE AND WILL HAVE THREE OPTIONS.

YOU CAN EITHER, UM, YOU CAN EITHER APPROVE THE, THE APPLICATION AND IT'LL HAVE THE CASE AND THE APPLICANT OR THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE, IT'LL EITHER HAVE A, UM, OPTION TO, IT'LL HAVE FOUR OPTIONS, SORRY, UH, OPTION TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY CAN COME BACK AND FILE OR DENY WITH PREJUDICE, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE, THEY COULD NOT COME BACK AND APPLY FOR THE SAME MATTER WITHIN TWO YEARS, OR AN OPTION TO HOLD OVER TO THE NEXT HEARING.

SO THAT WILL ALL BE DRAFTED FOR YOU.

SO YOU'LL HAVE ALL THE OPTIONS.

AND THERE ARE WAYS AT THE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE, WITH THE CHAIR AND THE BOARD ATTORNEY, THAT IF YOU WANNA DEVIATE, LIKE ADD SOMETHING LIKE, UM, THIS IS, UH, APPROVED BASED ON SITE PLAN.

AND IF THE BOARD, FOR EXAMPLE, SAYS WE WANT MORE PROTECTIONS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO IT'LL BE APPROVED BY SITE PLAN AND ELEVATIONS.

THERE'S SOME NUANCES THERE THAT YOU CAN MAKE ADJUSTMENTS ON, BUT YOU'LL HAVE GUIDANCE BEFORE THE HEARING ON HOW, WHAT DIRECTIONS YOU CAN GO AND WHAT PARAMETERS YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION ON.

MR. SLADE.

UH, THANK YOU CHAIR NEWMAN.

I JUST WANTED TO IDENTIFY THAT I DON'T VIEW WITH PREJUDICE AS BEING, UM, A JUDGMENT OR PUNISHMENT ON THE APPLICANT.

OFTEN IT'S A MATTER OF THINKING WHETHER THEY CAN COME BACK ON MATTERS WITHIN TWO YEARS.

AND SO IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO MEET THEIR BURDEN AND THERE ISN'T A BELIEF THAT THEY WILL SUDDENLY BE ABLE TO WITH ADDITIONAL HOMEWORK OR EVIDENCE, UM, I DON'T VIEW THE WIDTH PREJUDICE AS A BURDEN.

IT'S MORE OF AN IDENTIFICATION THAT THERE ARE SO MANY CITIZENS IN DALLAS.

AND SO IF SOMEONE COMES AND USES AN OPPORTUNITY WITH IT, MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE WINDOWS AVAILABLE FOR OTHERS.

SO I DID JUST WANT TO INDICATE THAT FOR ANYONE WATCHING THIS, UH, THAT IT ISN'T NECESSARILY A, A POX ON YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE YOU SAID, I I DON'T MEAN A POX.

IT'S JUST A, IT'S A JUDGMENT ON THE PANEL'S PART.

THAT, THAT YOU DON'T GET TO COME BACK TOMORROW.

YOU HAVE TO WAIT TWO YEARS.

MS. DAVIS, IF I MAKE A MOTION, DO I HAVE TO SUPPORT THAT MOTION? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THE, THE MAKER AND THE SECOND OF THE MOTION CAN CHANGE THEIR MIND BY THE TIME IT GETS TO A VOTE QUESTION.

THESE ARE ALL VERY GOOD QUESTIONS.

NEVER KNEW WE'D HAVE SO MUCH PROBLEM WITH YOUR PROCEDURE.

MR. MOORE, THE LAST THING I HAVE IS WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A TIE VOTE SORT OF DIFFICULT ON A FIVE MEMBER PANEL, BUT ASSUME THERE'S ONLY FOUR OF Y'ALL.

UH, A TIE VOTE IS NOT A MAJORITY FOR THE THINGS THAT REQUIRE A MAJORITY VOTE, YOU NEED A MAJORITY IS 50% PLUS ONE.

AND THAT IS ALL THAT I HAVE FOR ROBERT'S RULES.

OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE.

MR. AGNIS.

DOES IN ORDER FOR AN APPLICANT TO BE ABLE TO SUE US, DO THEY HAVE TO HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL OF THEIR OPTIONS? WHICH IS TO SAY, DO THEY HAVE TO HAVE RECEIVED A DENIAL WITH PREJUDICE? A DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE SIMPLY MEANS THEY CAN COME BACK.

WE KEEP 'EM IN A LOOP.

THE WAY CHAPTER TWO 11 WORKS IS THAT THE STATE DISTRICT COURT SORT OF SITS NOT AS LIKE THE TRIAL COURT, BUT AS AN APPELLATE COURT.

SO IT WOULD JUST BE AN APPEAL.

SO A SINGLE, ANY TYPE OF DENIAL WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO GO TO STATE DISTRICT COURT.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE OR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE REGARDING PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE? THIS HAS BEEN VERY GOOD.

I'M, I'M GLAD WE'RE DOING THIS BACK AND FORTH.

VERY HEALTHY.

THANK YOU MR. EMERITUS.

WOULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE DIANA AND DR.

OUR NEXT PRESENTER IS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.

UM, JASON MOORE,

[04:55:01]

KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS.

JASON POOLE, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ADMINISTRATOR.

AND I'D LIKE TO, UH, INTRODUCE MS. BARKUM AND MS. OR DR. MILLER HOSKINS FOR OUR TRAINING SESSION ON THE INTAKE PROCESS.

AND MS. CASTANE, GOOD AFTERNOON.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE CHARGING THROUGH ALL OUR STUFF.

NO PROBLEM.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

AGAIN, I AM DR.

A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

AGAIN, I AM DR.

KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS, UM, OUR PROJECT COORDINATOR, DIANA BARCHU, AND OUR DEVELOPMENT CODE SPECIALIST, MS. NOR CASTANEDA.

WE WILL BE PRESENTING TODAY THE INTAKE PROCESS FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT STEPS ONE OF FIVE.

THIS NEXT SLIDE HERE IS JUST THE SLIDE, UM, INDICATING THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT STAFF CHIEF PLANNER NIKKI DUNN.

AGAIN, MYSELF, PROJECT COORDINATOR DIANA BARQUE.

MS. UM, NORRA CASTANEDA, SENIOR PLANS EXAMINER, DEVELOPMENT CODE SPECIALIST, AS WELL AS OUR BOARD COORDINATOR, MS. MARY WILLIAMS. OUR PRESENTATION OVERVIEW WILL INCLUDE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, BOARD PROCESSES, STEPS ONE OF FIVE, ONE THROUGH FIVE.

WHAT IS THE INTAKE PROCESS? THE PRE-SCREEN PROCESS, AS WELL AS THE COMPLETE APPLICATION PROCESS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES BOARD PROCESSES INCLUDES FIVE STEPS.

STEP ONE, WHICH IS THE APPLICATION INTAKE PROCESS, WHICH WE WILL DISCUSS TODAY.

STEP TWO, PLANNER, ASSIGNMENT CASE START, STEP THREE, LEGAL NOTICES, MEETINGS, AND DEADLINES.

STEP FOUR, OUR HEARING.

STEP FIVE, POST-HEARING.

WHAT IS THE INTAKE PROCESS? THE INTAKE PROCESS IS A BY COMPONENT PROCEDURE DESIGNED TO STREAMLINE, UM, THE APPLICATION ACCEPTANCE PROCESS FOR OPTIMAL TIMELINESS, ACCURACY, TRANSPARENCY, AND TEAMWORK.

THE INTAKE COMPONENTS INCLUDE OUR PRESCREEN PROCESS AS WELL AS THE COMPLETE APPLICATION ACCEPTANCE WILL, WHICH WILL BE DISCUSSED LATER, UM, IN THE PRESENTATION.

WHEN IT COMES TO TIMELINESS, WE WANT TO ALWAYS ENSURE TIMELINESS WITH OUR NEWLY UPGRADED PERMIT PROCEDURES AS WELL AS, UM, OUR NEW CALENDAR THAT WILL PROBABLY, THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED LATER.

UM, TODAY ALLOWS FOR A TIMELINESS OF EXACTLY 60 DAYS OR LESS FROM INTAKE DEADLINE TO HEARING.

AND THAT IS FROM THE TIME THE APPLICANT SUBMITS THEIR APPLICATION BY THE DEADLINE TO THE DATE OF THE ACTUAL HEARING.

WE, WE ARE STRIVING TO GET THAT PROCESS DOWN TO 60 DAYS OR LESS.

WHEN IT COMES TO ACCURACY, WE ALSO WANT TO ENSURE ACCURACY, THEREFORE, WE HAVE OUR PRESCREEN PROCESS IN PLACE.

AND THIS PART OF THE PROCESS ENSURES ACCURACY AND IT ALSO ALLEVIATES ANY INSTANCES AND OR OCCURRENCES OF CASES COMING TO THE BOARD IN ERROR.

WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPARENCY, THE NEWLY IMPLEMENTED INTERNAL REFERRAL SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE CALLS FOR OPEN CONTEXT AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CASES THAT'S REFERRED TO THE BOARD OR BEING BROUGHT TO THE BOARD, IT ALLOWS STAFF TO, UM, SHARE INFORMATION WITH THE BOARD TO HELP AID IN THEIR DECISION MAKING.

WHEN IT COMES TO TEAMWORK, TRANSPARENCY, TIMELINESS AND ACCURACY ARE ALL ACHIEVED THROUGH THE USE OF TEAMWORK.

THIS PART OF OUR PROCESS DOES AND CAN INCLUDE CITY STAFF FROM VARIOUS DIVISIONS WITHIN DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, WHICH INCLUDES CODE ENFORCEMENT, ZONING, PERMITTING, LANDSCAPING, AND ENGINEERING.

THIS, UM, THIS KIND OF HEIGHTENS OUR INTERDEPARTMENTAL COLLABORATION THAT GIVES SYNERGY TO ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF SECURING A PERMIT OUTSIDE OF COMING TO THE BOARD, WHICH ULTIMATELY SAVES OUR TAXPAYER MONEY WHILE ALSO NOT STAGNATING THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

THE NEXT FEW SLIDES WOULD BE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR PRE-SCREEN PROCESS, AS WELL AS OUR COMPLETE APPLICATION ACCEPTANCE PROCESS.

MS. DIANA KIN WILL NOW TAKE OVER TO DISCUSS THE PRE-SCREEN PROCESS.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS, UH, REGARDING THE SLIDES THAT I'VE JUST, UM, DISCUSSED? THANK YOU.

GLOVER'S, DR. GLOVER, PLEASE.

HELLO EVERYONE.

UM, SO PRIOR TO ACCEPTING A BOARD CASE, OLD JE HOOSIERS, DR.

PROCESSES? THOSE FIVE STEPS ARE INCLUDED IN THAT 60 DAY TIMELINE.

WHAT ARE THE TIMELINES FOR THE FIVE DIFFERENT PROCESSES? I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN? WHAT ARE THE TIMELINES FOR THE FIVE DIFFERENT

[05:00:01]

60 DAYS? YES.

UH, WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS 60 DAYS, SO IT'S NOT 60 DAYS AT THIS.

WELL, IT'S WORKING TOWARDS 60 DAYS AND CURRENTLY IT'S 75 DAYS OR LESS.

75.

THANK YOU DR. GLOVER.

MS. DIANA.

UM, SO PRIOR TO ACCEPTING A BOARD CASE, UH, WE PROVIDE THE APPLICANTS WITH, UH, PRESCREEN, UH, THAT PRESCREEN CONSISTS OF A CONSULTATION AND A PRECURSORY REVIEW.

THE NEXT FIVE STEPS ARE, OR THE NEXT FIVE BULLET POINTS, ARE STEPS TO A SUCCESSFUL PRE-SCREEN, UH, FULL SCALE INVENTORY OF ALL REQUIRED ITEMS ON THE CHECKLIST, CHECKING FOR CODIFIED REASONS TO BE HEARD BEFORE THE BOARD FACILITATION IF POSSIBLE OR NECESSARY SITE PLAN REVIEW AND DISCUSSIONS OF STANDARDS AND HEARING PROCESS.

THE NEXT SLIDE, CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT YOU MEAN BY FACILITATION, IF POSSIBLE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I I WILL, IT'LL IT'LL COME UP.

OH, IS IT COMING UP? YES.

UM, THE NEXT SLIDE IS OUR CHECKLIST.

UM, ALL APPLICANTS RECEIVE THIS CHECKLIST, AND WE DO NOT DEEM A APPLICATION COMPLETE UNTIL WE RECEIVE EVERY DOCUMENT, UM, FROM THAT CHECKLIST THAT PERTAINS TO THEIR, UH, REQUEST.

MS. BARUM, THIS MS. BARUM, HOLD ON A SECOND.

THIS MORNING YOU HEARD TESTIMONY FROM THE PUBLIC FROM A COUPLE OF THEM ABOUT THE CHECKLIST, UHHUH , AND ONE PARTICULAR PERSON SAID OUR CHECKLIST WAS MORE ONEROUS THAN ANY OF HIS OTHER CITIES AND CLIENTS.

AND, AND I'M NOT QUOTING HIM DIRECTLY, I'M WHAT IS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OPINION OF THAT COMMENT VERSUS WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN THIS CHECKLIST? AND IF YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TO RESPOND TO THAT, YOU CAN.

THAT'S FINE.

I JUST, I HEARD THAT THIS MORNING AND I'VE HEARD THAT BEFORE AND I'M, I HEARD THAT AS WELL.

UM, WE, WE DID REEVALUATE SOME OF THE ITEMS ON THIS, AND IN LIGHT OF THAT COMMENT, I'D LIKE TO REVISIT SOME OF THOSE JUST TO MAKE SURE.

UM, ONE INSTANCE DID COME TO LIGHT WHERE SOMEONE WANTED TO, UH, PURSUE A BOARD CASE ON A PROPERTY THAT THEY DIDN'T OWN .

AND, AND A PART OF THESE, LIKE, UH, THAT, THAT DID COME UP AS TO WHY THESE ITEMS ARE REQUIRED AND MAKING SURE THAT, UH, THAT, THAT WE ARE ONLY LISTING ITEMS THAT ARE REQUIRED AND, AND KNOWING EXACTLY WHY WE REQUIRE 'EM.

SO YOU'LL, YOU'LL COME BACK TO US IF THERE'S AN ADJUSTMENT TO THIS.

I'M, I'M NOT JUDGING THE MERIT OF WHAT HE SAID VERSUS WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

I'M JUST TRYING TO RECONCILE THE TWO.

UM, SO THANK YOU.

OH, MS. GABO HAS GOT A QUESTION.

SO I, I'VE NEVER HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

I'VE NEVER SEEN THE CHECKLIST.

I MEAN, HOW, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO GO TO 500 ELM STREET? AND CAN YOU DO ALL THAT IN ONE DAY? CAN YOU REQUEST IT ONLINE OR DO YOU HAVE TO LIKE PHYSICALLY GO? I'M JUST CURIOUS.

I BELIEVE SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS YOU COULD HAVE REQUESTED ONLINE.

BUT THOSE, THOSE ADDRESSES ARE PRETTY CLOSE TO OUR OFFICE.

UM, ONE OF THEM BEING HERE AT, UH, MARILLA STREET.

SO, I MEAN, DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN APPOINTMENT TO DO ALL OF THIS OR DO YOU JUST GO IN? NO, YOU COULD WALK IN TO GET THESE DOCUMENTS.

YEAH, THERESA.

OKAY, MS. GAMBLE, THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YEAH, I UNDERSTAND.

AND AND BY VIRTUE OF YOU PUTTING ADDRESSES ON HERE, YOU'RE TRYING TO HELP THE APPLICANT KNOW WHERE TO GO? EXACTLY, YES.

WE TRIED TO, UM, WE DIDN'T CREATE THIS CHECKLIST.

THIS HAS BEEN EMPLOYED FOR A FEW YEARS NOW OF, WHAT WE DID DO IS WE ADDED THE ADDRESSES, WE ADDED, UM, THE ADDRESSES FOR ANY CONTEXT LIKE DAVE NAVAREZ FOR THE, UM, TRAFFIC ENGINEER, THE ARBORIST.

WE, UM, I LIKE THAT.

I LIKE THAT.

AND FOR THOSE THAT THEY CAN DO ONLINE, CAN YOU PUT THAT ON THERE AS WELL? THE, FOR WHICH DOCUMENT FOR ANYONE THAT THEY CAN DO ONLINE VERSUS THE ZONING, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE COMMENTS FROM THIS MORNING.

AND YES, THEY ARE ABLE TO GET THOSE DOCUMENTS ONLINE.

LIKE, I GAVE THEM THE ADDRESS OR WE, WE PUT THE ADDRESS FOR OUR ZONING, THE, FOR THE VAULT, WHICH THEY COULD GET THE PLAT MAP FROM THERE.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME DOWN TO THE COUNTY OR ANYTHING.

SO, UM, WE TRY TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE.

YOU PULL IT UP AND THEN LINK TO THE OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED, AND THEN MAYBE THAT'D BE ONE GENERAL PLACE TO PULL ALL THE DOCUMENTS, COMPLETE THEM, AND THEN TAKE THEM TO THE RESPECTIVE PLACES.

MR. POOL AND THEN MS. LAMB, SOMETHING I'VE NOTICED ABOUT THIS LIST IS MANY OF THESE ITEMS ARE THE SAME AS FOR A ZONING CASE.

I I WOULD IMAGINE THAT, UH, MANY OF THESE CARRIED OVER FROM WHEN PUD HAD THESE, WHICH, WHICH WOULD, WOULD MAKE ME WONDER AS TO, UH, REEVALUATING AND, AND EXACTLY WHAT THESE NEED.

I, I KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN GONE THROUGH ONCE, BUT, UH, IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO DOUBLE CHECK.

THANKS.

THANK YOU, MS. LAMB.

SOME OF THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY WE RECEIVED THIS MORNING WAS OTHER CITIES LIKE FRISCO, PLANO, AND FORT WORTH HAD A, A VERY EFFICIENT PROGRAM, MAYBE MIGHT CONSIDER, UM, COMPARING THEIR INTAKE CHECKLIST.

UM, TO, TO THIS, JUST, JUST A THOUGHT EDER, MR. SINGTON.

UM, SO HOW MUCH OF THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS IS ONLINE? LIKE, UM, MS. BARKUM MENTIONED, UM, THAT SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE.

IF THIS WAS AVAILABLE ONLINE, COULD

[05:05:01]

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ALREADY IN PLACE.

IT'S BEEN QUITE SOME TIME SINCE I'VE, I USED TO ACTUALLY USED TO HAVE TO DO THAT THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

SO THIS, THIS CHECKLIST IS ONLINE.

UM, BE ON OUR WEBSITE ON THE FRONT? YES, IT FRONT.

IT IS, UH, THERE ARE SOME LINKS ON THERE.

WE CAN GO BACK AND CONFIRM THAT ALL THE LINKS ARE THERE AND, AND THAT NEED TO BE THERE AND, AND CAN BE MADE LIVE.

MR. KOWSKI.

I GUESS ONE QUESTION I HAVE IS THERE'S A LOT OF REQUIREMENT FOR HARD COPIES HERE, AND I FEEL LIKE THAT, AND I WONDER WHAT IS THE REASONING BEHIND THAT? A LOT OF PLACES WHERE WE WORK MOST OF THIS AND EVEN WITHIN THE CITY, YOU KNOW, LIKE A LANDMARK APPLICATION COULD BE MADE VIA, UM, THE, THE WEB OR AN EMAIL, UH, APPLICATION.

I'M AN ABSOLUTE HARD COPY GUY, ALL THIS PAPER, BUT I LOVE THE QUESTION, MR. MOR.

UH, MR. POOLE.

SO CURRENTLY WE'RE LOOKING AT THOSE, UM, WE HAVE POSED THAT QUESTION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY.

UM, PRIOR TO SOME OF OUR ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS, EVERYTHING WAS HARD COPY.

UH, WE DO LIKE TO HAVE WET SIGNATURES AND THAT KIND OF THING, BUT AGAIN, WE, WE ARE LOOKING AT THOSE TO SEE, UH, WHAT WE CAN DO DIGITALLY, UM, IN SOME OF THE LATER PRESENTATIONS, WE ARE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT SOME OF THE SYSTEMS WE HAVE IN PLACE TO TRY AND ACCOMMODATE SOME OF THE BOARD PROCESSES.

AND OVER THE NEXT 24 MONTHS, WE SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTING OUR NEW ACELA SOFTWARE, WHICH, WHICH WILL BE A MORE DIGITAL PLATFORM FOR ALL OF OUR, OUR, UH, OUR WHOLE END USE SYSTEM.

OUR, OUR ENTIRE PERMITTING SYSTEM WILL BE HEADED THAT ROUTE.

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SIR? NO, THANK YOU.

I'M GLAD Y'ALL ARE PURSUING THAT.

MRS. UH, MR. UH, KOVI THEN, MR. SASHING? MR. HOVI? NO, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, THERE'S A TR TREMENDOUS NUMBER OF MUNICIPALITIES THAT STILL REQUIRE HARD COPIES OF, OF DOCUMENTS, UH, AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I MEAN, IT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT IT'S STILL A REQUIREMENT AROUND THE COUNTRY 'CAUSE OF 'CAUSE OF THESE GRAY HAIRS THAT LOVE THE PAPER.

UH, GREAT QUESTION.

THANK YOU FOR ASKING IT IN YOUR ANSWER, MR. HOP.

UM, JUST AN OBSERVATION.

THIS, THIS SEEMS LIKE A, IF I'M, IF I'M A RESIDENTIAL OWNER AND I WANT TO SEE ABOUT GETTING AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE PUT IN MY BOAT YARD, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT FOR ME AS A HOMEOWNER, THIS SEEMS LIKE AN INCREDIBLY ONEROUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THEY HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER.

IS THERE NOT A, IS THERE NOT, THERE'S NOT A STREAMLINED PROCESS FOR SOME VERY, FOR VERY SIMPLE RESIDENTIAL CASES.

THIS FROM HIM ON HIS FIRST DAY.

I AGREE.

THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION, MR. POOLE.

THIS IS YOUR FIRST DAY ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

I LOVE IT.

AND THEN I'VE GOT MS. GABO, SO, SO TO WE, WE COULD LOOK AT THIS VERY HIGH LEVEL AND SIMPLIFY IT IN THAT WAY, HOWEVER, THESE VARIANCES GO WITH THE LAND.

SO THEY WILL BE THERE TILL SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT OR, OR THEY, LIKE THEY'RE GOING WITH THE LAND, THEY'RE PART OF THE ZONING.

SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT AS SIMPLISTIC AS, AS THEY COULD BE MADE OUT TO BE, BUT THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT AS COMPLICATED EITHER.

UM, AGAIN, WE, WE ARE GONNA LOOK AT THIS LIST A LITTLE MORE IN LIGHT OF, UH, MR. HAM'S, UH, COMMENTS AND, UM, JUST KNOW THAT THESE DO GO WITH THE LAND AND, AND THEY'RE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SOMEBODY SELLS THEIR PROPERTY OR NOT, THESE, THESE STAY IN PLACE.

I I'VE GOT MISS GABO THEN MR. SLATE, VICE CHAIR GABO.

AND TO CLARIFY THIS IS IF YOU, YOU BY RIGHT, YOU CAN PUT AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE IN YOUR BACKYARD AND BY RIGHT, YOU CAN PUT A FOUR FOOT FENCE IN YOUR FRONT YARD.

THIS IS TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION TO ZONING THAT WHEN YOU BOUGHT YOUR HOUSE, YOU SIGNED UP FOR.

SO IT IS A HUGE PAIN IN THE BUTT.

I MEAN, I WOULDN'T WANNA DO THAT.

I JUST WOULDN'T PUT AN EIGHT FOOTPRINTS IN MY FRONT YARD.

I KEEP IT AT FOUR FEET RATHER THAN GO THROUGH ALL THIS PROCESS.

AND THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE THIS.

SO, I MEAN, IT'S NOT A QUITE LIKE TO GET YOUR FENCE IN YOUR BACKYARD THAT'S APPROVED BY THE CITY ALREADY.

YOU JUST NEED, THAT'S A LOT EASIER THAN THIS.

BUT YOU ARE ASKING, YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING TO YOUR NEIGHBOR AND TO EVERYBODY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, I AM SPECIAL, I'M GOING TO CHANGE AND PUT A BIGGER FENCE IN MY FRONT YARD THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

SO YEAH, YOU SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS THAT IS VINTAGE SHERRY GABO AND I LOVE HER TO DEATH.

THAT IS VINTAGE SHERRY GABO.

SO THAT BEING SAID, SHE WASN'T, SHE WASN'T JUMPING ON YOU MICHAEL? NO.

SHE WAS JUST GIVING HER HER VINEGAR.

WHAT THINGS ARE ESSENTIAL AND THAT SORT OF THING.

UH, ALRIGHT.

SO, BUT I I, I DO, I DO TAKE, UH, HIS QUESTION AND MR. KROSKY'S QUESTION.

I THINK THEY'RE VALID OBSERVATIONS AND, AND WE HAVE THE COMMITMENT OF THE DIRECTOR'S REPRESENTATIVE THROUGH MR. POOL TO REVIEW, TO SEE

[05:10:01]

SO WE, WE APPRECIATE THAT.

I WROTE DOWN DO WE ALL NEED IN DIGITAL AS MY TWO FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS ON THAT? UH, WE'RE GONNA COME RIGHT BACK.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS PAGE HERE THAT'S GETTING EVERYONE'S ATTENTION? YES, DR. GLOVER, UH, AS A FILING DIGITAL, OR DO YOU HAVE TO PRESENT IT IN PERSON? SO CURRENTLY WE'RE REQUIRING HARD COPIES FOR EVERYTHING.

UM, THEY HAVE TO PAY IN PERSON AND THEY ALSO HAVE TO PICK UP THE NOTIFICATION SIGN IN PERSON.

SO THOSE FINALIZATION ITEMS COME IN PERSON.

UM, WE DO PRE-SCREENS THROUGH EMAIL, SO IF THEY WANT TO EMAIL ALL THE DOCUMENTATION, WE CAN LOOK IT OVER AND SAY, YEAH, THIS, THIS IS ALL GOOD.

BRING YOUR STUFF IN AND WE'RE READY.

UM, BUT, BUT, UH, THE FINAL FINAL PROCESS CURRENTLY IS, IS AN IN-PERSON PROCESS DUE TO THE FEE AND THE, AND THE NOTIFICATION SIGN THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT IN THEIR YARD.

SO WHEN YOU PRESENT THE NOTIFICATION TO, TO CLIENTS, DO YOU LET THEM KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT THESE NOTICES IN A VISIBLE AREA TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE NOTICE? I BELIEVE AND I'LL, I'LL DEFER TO THE, UH, THE, THE BOARD STAFF.

UH, I BELIEVE THERE'S AN AFFIDAVIT THAT GOES WITH THIS THAT THEY SIGN INDICATING THAT THEY WILL FOLLOW THOSE.

THANK YOU DR. GLOVER.

ANYONE ELSE RIGHT NOW? OKAY, CONTINUE, DIANE.

AND SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS ARE GONNA BE ANSWERED LATER ON IN THE, UM, IN THE PRESENTATION.

UM, AND ONE THING I DID WANNA SAY IS THAT I DIDN'T SAY ALL DOCUMENTS COULD BE FOUND ALL ON ONLINE .

SOME DOCUMENTS CAN.

UM, AND ANOTHER THING IS THAT WE GO OVER THE CHECKLIST WITH EVERY APPLICANT.

SO ALTHOUGH IT DOES SEEM OVERWHELMING, THEY DON'T NEED TO PROVIDE EVERY SINGLE THING.

THE DOCUMENTS UP ON TOP.

YES, IT'S REQUIRED FROM EVERYONE, BUT WE DON'T NEED CERTAIN PLANS, UM, THAT ARE STATED ON THIS DOCUMENT.

THEY, THEY'RE NOT GONNA, THEY DON'T NEED FLOOR PLANS FOR A FENCE PERMIT.

SO I THINK BECAUSE IT'S ALL ON ONE PAGE, IT DOES SEEM OVERWHELMING, BUT IT'S NOT WHEN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ENTIRE PACKAGE THAT YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE.

I LOST MY, I LOST MY, OKAY.

UM, SO THE NEXT SCREEN OR THE NEXT SLIDE IS THE REFERRAL FORM.

SO THIS IS AN , MS. LAMB HAS ANOTHER QUESTION.

NO, OF COURSE.

COME ON, SARAH.

COME ON.

WHEN YOU GO OVER THE CHECKLIST WITH THE APPLICANT, IS IT AT THAT TIME WHERE YOU EXPRESS THE EXPECTATIONS AND WHAT THEY NEED TO, HOW THEY NEED TO MAKE THE, NOT HOW TO MAKE THE CASE, BUT THE STANDARD IN WHICH THEY HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO GET APPROVED FOR WHEN THEY PRESENT IN FRONT OF THE BOARD? DOES THAT HAPPEN WITH A CHECKLIST? THAT'S ALSO GONNA COME UP LATER ON, BUT YES, IT'S GONNA BE, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE CONSULTATION AND PRE-SCREEN KIND OF COMBINE SOMETIMES IT JUST ALL DEPENDS ON HOW IT'S INITIALLY STARTED BY THE APPLICANT.

IF THEY REACH OUT TO US VIA EMAIL, THEN WE CAN'T REALLY GO OVER A LOT OF THINGS UNTIL THEY COME AND PRESENT THAT OR UNTIL THEY GIVE US THE INFORMATION BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE EVEN GOING TO THE BOARD FOR.

SO IT JUST KIND OF DEPENDS ON HOW WE RECEIVE THAT, THEIR INFORMATION.

AND THEN HOW ARE THE APPLICANTS FINDING YOU? ARE THEY REACHING OUT TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT I WANNA DO, AND THEN THEY'RE DEFERRED TO THE BOARD? IS IT THEY GO, HOW DO THEY FIND THAT THEY NEED TO GO ADHERE INSTEAD OF IN FRONT OF, OF P AND Z OR WHAT'S ALLOWED BY WRIGHT? UM, MOST LIKE MY NEXT SCREEN IS GONNA SHOW THE REFERRAL FORM.

SO SOMETIMES, UM, WE DO ASK THAT WE GOT THIS NEW REFERRAL, WE'RE IMPLEMENTING A NEW REFERRAL FORM.

UM, AND THIS IS LIKE IF THERE'S A CODE VIOLATION, IF THEY COME IN FOR A CONSULTATION, IF THEY HAVE A ZONING, UM, CONSULTATION, OR IF THEY HAVE A REVIEW IN, IN, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND SAY THAT THE PLANS EXAMINER SAYS YOU NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD FOR THAT, THEN THEY'LL WRITE UP THIS REFERRAL FORM AND SEND THEM UP TO US.

THEY COULD REACH OUT TO US.

UM, OUR INFORMATION'S ON THE WEBSITE, THEY COULD CALL US.

THEY EMAIL US, THEY STOP BY.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S JUST DIFFERENT WAYS FOR THEM TO GET IN TOUCH WITH US.

UM, SO I'M NOT SURE IF I HAVE TO GO OVER THE REFERRAL FORM, BUT THAT WAS THE NEXT SLIDE.

, GENERALLY WE, WE TRY TO BE AVAILABLE IN EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO.

MOST CASES, SOME SOMEWHERE THEY WERE HALTED IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND SENT TO US.

BUT WE, WE TRY TO BE AVAILABLE IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY BECAUSE I IMAGINE MOST, MOST CITIZENS DON'T KNOW THAT WE REALLY EXIST UNTIL THEY NEED US.

SO JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY FIND US.

THE ONES THAT COME DIRECTLY TO US ARE GENERALLY THE CONSULTANTS WHO KNOW THE PROCESS AND HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH, WITH THAT SIDE.

THE NEXT, UM, STEP IS THE FACILITATION PROCESS.

UM, THE SLIDE KIND OF TELLS YOU ABOUT OUR FACILITATION PROCESS, BUT IT'S BASICALLY, UH, DURING THE PRE-SCREEN, THERE'S MANY TIMES WHEN THE APPLICANT HAS, UM, ALTERNATIVES RATHER THAN HAVING TO GO TO THE BOARD.

FOR INSTANCE, IF THEY NEED A PARKING REDUCTION, UM, AND THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THEY COULD USE, THEY MAY HAVE SOME DELTA CREDITS, THEY MAY HAVE OTHER, YOU KNOW, METHODS LIKE, UM, BICYCLE PARKING REDUCTION OR ADMINISTRATIVE PARKING REDUCTION.

AND THAT'S WHEN WE OFFER THEM THOSE,

[05:15:01]

THOSE, UM, ALTERNATIVES.

UM, OR EVEN IF THEY'RE COMING IN FOR A VARIANCE BUT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE, THE BICYCLE PARKING REDUCTION, WHICH IF THEY ADD JUST SOME BICYCLE PARKING SPACES, THEY CAN MOVE FROM A VARIANCE TO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, WHICH IS EASIER TO MOVE.

SO WE'LL KIND OF GUIDE THEM ON THAT AND TRY TO GIVE 'EM SOME, UM, SOME HELP WITH HOW THEY COULD PRESENT THEIR CASE.

AND, AND THIS COMMENT IS TO MR. POOLE 'CAUSE HE'S THE SENIOR IN THE ROOM.

, AS YOU AND I HAVE DISCUSSED MANY TIMES, UH, THIS CONCERNS ME.

AS I SAID EARLIER TODAY, THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE CREATED BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS TO GIVE PROPERTY OWNERS THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR, AS MS. GABO SAID, FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR A VARIANCE FOR THINGS OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT CODE AND ZONING ALLOWS.

AND IT, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME AND THE BOARD THAT PROPERTY OWNERS, WHICH ARE TAXPAYERS, ARE ABLE TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS A NOVEL, UNIQUE, SMART POT, POTENTIALLY SMART PROCESS TO EMPOWER A PROPERTY OWNER FOR ALTERNATIVE MORE QUICKLY MAYBE TO, TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEM.

BUT I DO NOT WANT IT TO TURN INTO A STALL OR A HIGH HURDLE OR THE WORD DIVERSION.

IT, IT, IT REALLY CONCERNS ME THAT, THAT IF THAT SOMEONE FEELS LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD GO THROUGH THIS LIST OR YOU COULD DO THIS OVER HERE.

AND, UM, I JUST WANT US TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THIS.

'CAUSE IF THIS IS ALL PURE, YOU WONDER WHY WASN'T THIS DONE YEARS AGO? UM, THAT JUST KIND OF BEGS THE MIND.

SO, YEAH.

AND, UH, I, I'LL MS. BARKUM WANTS TO RESPOND, BUT I, I'M, I'M, I'M CHEWING ON YOU MR. POOLE, BECAUSE YOU'VE HEARD MY CONCERN BEFORE.

'CAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO FORCE ALL I PROPERTY OWNER'S RIGHT.

TO APPEAL.

AND OUR, OUR HIGHEST VALUE WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IS CUSTOMER SERVICE.

LIKE TO PAINT THIS IN, IN THE LIGHT THAT IT NEEDS TO BE PAINTED IN.

WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE BEST WE CAN FOR EVERY CUSTOMER THAT COMES THROUGH THOSE, THOSE DOORS.

AND IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S ANOTHER OPTION, SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO PURSUE THAT.

AND, AND THEN WE'RE IN NO WAY SAYING YOU NEED TO DO THIS.

IT'S, IT'S, UH, GIVING THEM THE, THE, THE WHOLE PICTURE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE, BUT WE ARE IN NO WAY GONNA HINDER ANYBODY'S RIGHT.

IF THEY, IF THEY CHOOSE TO COME TO THE BOARD.

MS. BARUM, DID YOU WANNA, I DIDN'T WANNA CUT YOU OFF, BUT I WANTED HIM FINISH MY CHEW.

NO, THAT'S FINE.

UM, SO YEARS AGO WE DIDN'T HAVE ZONING EXPERTS LIKE WE DO NOW.

WE DIDN'T HAVE, UM, WE JUST HAD INTAKE PEOPLE.

SO NOW IT'S KIND OF LIKE YOU'RE GONNA GET A MORE THOROUGH REVIEW WHEN YOU COME IN AND WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THAT SITE PLAN AND SEE IF, IF EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD NOT FIND, BUT FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO COME INTO THE BOARD AND REQUEST EVERYTHING AT ONCE RATHER THAN, OH, THEY WENT BACK TO REVIEW AND, OH WAIT, YOU'RE MISSING THIS ALSO.

SO WE LIKE TO DO THAT AHEAD OF TIME AND I THINK THAT SAVES TIME, MONEY, AND STRESS ON THE TAXPAYER.

SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE DOING THEM IN INJUSTICE BY PROVIDING A GOOD THOROUGH REVIEW.

THAT'S MY HOPE.

I WANNA BUILD AN X SQUARE FOOT HOUSE PERMITTING TELLS 'EM, ALL RIGHT, WELL IF YOU WANNA DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO GO TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

I THINK, I THINK TOO, IN LIGHT OF, UH, THE MORE THOROUGH LOOK AT THAT SITE PLAN IS OUR, OUR INITIAL UNDERSTANDING OF THAT 60 DAY DEADLINE WAS TO GET IT TO A POINT TO WHERE ONCE THAT DEADLINE EXPIRES, IT IS A GUARANTEED MINIMUM 60 OR MAXIMUM 60 DAYS FROM THAT DEADLINE.

NOW, I KIND OF ILLUSTRATE THAT LATER AND WE'RE GONNA AGAIN, LOOK AT CALENDAR OPTIONS TO, TO CHANGE THAT SUM.

BUT THAT WAS, I THINK THE ORIGINAL INTENT WAS FROM THAT DEADLINE, THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER INTERRUPTIONS OR NO OTHER DELAYS AND YOU HAD A GUARANTEED TIME AS TO WHEN IT WOULD BE HEARD.

BUT WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN, IN SOME OF THE OTHER PRESENTATIONS.

VICE CHAIR, AGNES, UH, MR. POOLE OR MS. BARQUE? I DON'T, UH, YOU TELL ME WHO THIS, THIS IS FOR.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS IF YOU, IF YOU'RE COMING TO US, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH PERMITTING AND THEY HAVE SAID, WE CAN'T DO THIS.

YOU HAVE TO GO GET A VARIANCE OR AN EXCEPTION.

RIGHT? LIKE, WHERE ELSE COULD SOMEBODY GO IF THERE IS IT JUST THAT THEY GET REFERRED TO US INCORRECTLY OR TO AN EXTENT? I, I DON'T KNOW THAT, UH, DURING OUR PERMITTING PROCESS THAT IT'S ALWAYS PRESENTED ALL THE ALTERNATIVES ON, ON COMING INTO COMPLIANCE.

UM, GENERALLY WE'LL, WE'LL HIT A HICCUP AND THEY'LL SAY, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THIS CLOSER, OR YOU NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD OR, OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.

AND WHEN THEY GET TO THIS STAGE, WE CAN ACTUALLY LOOK AT THAT AND AND DETERMINE IF THERE'S ANY OTHER OPTIONS OR IF THERE'S NOT.

YEAH, I GUESS I SEE SOMEBODY, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD COME TO PERMITTING AND SAY, ALL RIGHT, I WANT,

[05:20:01]

YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY COULD BUILD AN X MINUS SOMETHING SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, IN WHICH CASE THEY MIGHT COME TO YOU AND YOU WOULD EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT STANDARD THEY HAVE TO MEET AND MAYBE THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND.

I I, IS THAT KIND OF A, I I THINK SO.

AND HOUSE BILL 14 HAS, HAS ESSENTIALLY ADDED ANOTHER LAYER ON TOP OF THAT WHERE WE HAVE 60 DAYS TO APPROVE, DE DENY OR CONDITIONALLY APPROVE A PERMIT.

SO THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF, OF MAKING SURE THAT HAPPENS TO AVOID SOMEBODY HAVING TO GO TO A THIRD PARTY TO POTENTIALLY GO ANOTHER ROUTE.

I'VE GOT DR. GLOVER, VICE CHAIR GABO, AND THEN MR. MARK KOWSKI.

DR. GLOVER.

MY CONCERN IS THIS THAT WE'VE SEEN OR HAD CASES WHERE PEOPLE COME BEFORE THE BOARD AND SAY, CITY STAFF ADVISED US TO DO THIS.

AND UM, WE ARE STUCK 'CAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO TANK.

'CAUSE IF CITY STAFF HAS INVITES PEOPLE TO DO CERTAIN THINGS AND THEY COME BEFORE THE BOARD, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR US TO REALLY JUDGE A CASE LIKE THAT BASED ON WHAT THE PERSON IS TELLING US.

WHAT STRUCTURES OR, UM, IMPLEMENTATIONS DO YOU HAVE IN PLACE TO CURTAIL SOME OF THESE THINGS? SO WE DON'T HEAR SUCH THINGS.

LET ME MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

SO ESSENTIALLY WE'RE SAYING THAT THEY RECEIVED ILL ADVICE FROM FROM THE, THE PLANS EXAMINER OR SOME, SOME CITY STAFF? THAT'S CORRECT.

AND YOU'RE ASKING WHAT PROCESS WE HAVE IN PLACE TO REMEDY THAT? I I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS GONNA BOIL DOWN TO THIS PRE-SCREEN WHERE THEY GET INDIVIDUALIZED ATTENTION AND KIND OF ONE-ON-ONE FOCUS AS TO WHAT ALL THE OPTIONS ARE.

UM, GENERALLY WITH A PERMIT THERE, THERE'S NO FACE-TO-FACE CONTACT.

UM, THE ONES THAT COME THROUGH OVER THE COUNTER, UH, WE, WE DO A LOT OF SAME DAYS, BUT THE ONES THAT WILL HAVE TO BE ROUTED TO GO INTO REVIEW, THEY, THEY MORE THAN LIKELY WILL NEVER TALK TO THAT REVIEWER OUTSIDE OF OUR PERMITTING SYSTEM.

THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO SEE THEM IN PERSON, UM, UNLESS THEY MAKE IT A POINT TO COME AND, AND FIND THEM OR EMAIL THEM DIRECTLY OR, OR SOMETHING TO THAT EXTENT.

WITH, WITH THIS PROCESS, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO SIT DOWN FACE TO FACE AND, AND, AND WORK OUT ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE WORKED OUT AND, AND BE SURE TO PROVIDE EVERY OPTION WE CAN TO THEM.

AND I'M ALL IN FAVOR OF THE PROCESS AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T UNREASONABLY ELONGATE A DECISION BECAUSE THE DANGER IS, WELL, WE'RE GONNA MEET WITH YOU AND WE'LL NEXT MEET WITH YOU.

TIME X AND TIME YI, I DON'T KNOW, AND I DON'T, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE JOHN DOE AND JANE X THAT OWN A PROPERTY AND PLACE Y HAVE A, HAVE A REASONABLE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO ASK FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN VARIOUS AND THEY CAN GET AN ANSWER IN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME.

THAT'S ALL I'M AFTER.

I'VE GOT VICE CHAIR GABO THEN MR. KOWSKI, UM, COUPLE QUESTIONS.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE 69% OF THE CASES Y'ALL ARE HEARING OR COMING IN, IN THIS PRE-SCREEN PROCESS ARE GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IS THAT PART OF THE REASON THAT WE'RE SEEING SUCH A REDUCTION IN THE CASES THAT ARE COMING TO THE BOARD? SO THAT COULD BE A PART OF IT.

UM, WHAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DEDUCE IS OF ALL THE PEOPLE WE WE TALKED TO AND THE NUMBERS WE'VE PULLED IN INITIALLY, WHICH AS WE'RE MOVING FORWARD, WE'RE GONNA GET MORE IN DEPTH AS TO HOW WE TAKE SOME OF THESE NUMBERS TO, TO GET A BETTER, MORE CONCISE VIEW OF WHERE THESE ARE ACTUALLY HEADING.

YEP.

UM, WHAT WE CAN DEDUCE IS WE ACCEPT 60% OF THESE TO CASES THAT 30% ARE, ARE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

EITHER THEY DECIDE NOT TO GO TO THE BOARD OR THEY DECIDE TO COMPLY OR THEY DECIDE NOT TO, TO DO A CASE OR THEY JUST, THEY GO INTO THE ROUTE WHAT ROUTE THAT IS.

WE, WE DON'T EXACTLY KNOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE DATA TO DETERMINE THAT.

ALL THAT WE CAN DETERMINE IS THAT 30% DO NOT TURN INTO BOARD CASES.

GUYS, IT'S OKAY THAT YOU ARE GOING SLOW AND THAT YOU'RE EXAMINING THOSE THINGS BECAUSE THIS IS OUTSIDE THE PURVIEW.

UM, I GUESS THIS IS MAYBE MORE OF A COMMENT OR JUST, BUT I, I MEAN YOU, YOU CAN'T REALLY GO A DAY WITHOUT READING IN THE NEWSPAPER ABOUT THE PERMITTING PROBLEMS AND DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN THE CITY.

AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE ALL KIND OF GOING DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE OF ARE WE MAKING THINGS MORE DIFFICULT FOR 'EM? AND I, I FEEL LIKE THERE'S TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU'VE GOT YOUR LEGITIMATE, I'M BUILDING A HOUSE, I'M MEETING ALL OF THE CRITERIA, AND THAT PERMITTING PROCESS SHOULD GO REALLY QUICKLY.

BUT THIS, YOU'RE BUILDING SOMETHING THAT ISN'T AND, AND IT SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT SLOWER.

SO I, I MEAN, I I'M STRU YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE, I FEEL LIKE YOU GUYS, AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST A COMMENT AND YOU MAY KILL ME, BUT I, I FEEL LIKE YOU

[05:25:01]

I MEAN, A NORMAL PERMIT THAT SHOULD BE A WHOLE SEPARATE DEPARTMENT THAT IS PUSHING THOSE THINGS THROUGH QUICKLY IF THEY ARE WITHIN, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE MEETING THE STANDARD.

UM, BUT THIS IS A SEPARATE ISSUE.

SO I DUNNO, IT'S JUST A COMMENT.

NOT REALLY A QUESTION, MR. KOWSKI, AND I'M NOT GONNA KILL YOU MS. CAMPBELL.

AND, AND THIS IS ALSO A COMMENT, UH, NOT, NOT A QUESTION, BUT I, AS A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL WHO HAS DEALT WITH A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE, THROUGH, HAS DEALT WITH THE PERMITTING DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

I APPRECIATE WHAT THEY'RE DOING BECAUSE THIS IS A HOLISTIC APPROACH THAT IS NOT TAKEN ANYWHERE ELSE.

YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND YOU HAVE 10 DIFFERENT PEOPLE REVIEWING IT, GET DIFFERENT COMMENTS FROM EVERY PERSON AND YOU NEVER GET A DIS UH, A COMMENT ON THIS IS HOW YOU FIX IT.

THIS IS JUST, THIS IS A PROBLEM.

IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

AND I LOVE THE IDEA, I'M ALWAYS GONNA ADVISE MY CLIENTS IF YOU CAN TAKE CONTROL OF HOW THE PROCESS HAPPENS BY AN ALTERNATE ROUTE.

IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF HAVING TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND SO I WOULD, I THINK AS MUCH ADVICE AS CAN BE GIVEN TO THE CLIENTS OR THE APPLICANTS ON ALTERNATE ROUTES OR YEAH, HERE'S YOUR, HERE'S YOUR EXCEPTION, YOU CAN USE, YOU MIGHT NOT GET EVERYTHING YOU NEED, BUT YOU'RE GETTING 90% OF THE WAY THERE, I THINK IS WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO ASK THEM THE STAFF TO DO BEFORE WE SEE THE, UM, THE CASES.

MR. FINNEY, UM, SO WHAT, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ALTERNATIVES THAT YOU'RE PUSHING PEOPLE TOWARDS? SO JUST TO CLARIFY AND DRAW A LINE, WE, WE DON'T GIVE ADVICE.

WE PRESENT OPTIONS.

UM, SOME OF THESE OPTIONS MAY BE LIKE MS. GAR BARCO SAID THEY, THEY COULD PROVIDE BICYCLE PARKING AND THAT REDUCE SOME OF THE PARKING THEY REQUIRE.

THEY COULD SECURE A PARKING AGREEMENT AND THAT COULD REDUCE SOME OF THE PARKING THEY REQUIRE.

UM, THEY COULD MOVE THEIR FENCE BACK FIVE FEET AND, AND GET WHAT THEY NEED.

UH, JUST OTHER OPTIONS THAT THAT MIGHT BE TOWARDS COMPLIANCE.

AND MS. BARKUM CAN ELABORATE ON SOME OF THOSE.

I THINK SHE'S GOT SOME EMAILS IN HERE THAT, THAT ILLUSTRATE SOME OF THOSE CASES.

I THINK, UH, ONE CASE WENT THROUGH FOR TREE, UH, A TREE VARIANCE AND, AND JUST MAKING THE APPLICANT AWARE OF THE MITIGATION PROCESS AND WHAT THAT ENTAILED.

HE, HE WAS ABLE TO REMEDY HIS, HIS DILEMMA THROUGH THE MITIGATION PROCESS.

SO IT'S JUST PROVIDING OPTIONS OTHER THAN THE BOARD THAT ARE AVAILABLE IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

BUT WE, WE, WE DON'T GIVE ADVICE, WE PROVIDE OPTIONS AND WE DON'T DESIGN ANYTHING FOR ANYONE.

IT'S JUST THESE ARE AVAILABLE OPTIONS FOR YOU.

YOU GOT EVERYONE'S ATTENTION.

AND I HAD A FEW THINGS TO SAY AND I FORGOT, BUT IN NO WAY AM I, DO I A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE.

IN NO WAY DID I WANNA SAY THAT WE CHANGED PEOPLE'S MINDS.

THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING.

WE'RE JUST TRYING TO PROVIDE THEM THEIR ALTERNATIVES BECAUSE I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT IF I WAS IN NEED OF HAVING TO GO TO THE BOARD, BUT THERE WAS AN OPTION TO NOT HAVE TO GO TO THE BOARD, I WOULD PROBABLY TAKE THAT OTHER OPTION.

GIVES EVERYONE MORE TIME.

UM, THE NEXT SLIDE.

DID I, OH, THE, THE NEXT SLIDE.

I'M SORRY.

SLIDE 15.

THAT'S THE EXAMPLE THAT, UM, MR. POOLE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT FOR AN ALTERNATIVE, UM, WAY BESIDES GOING TO THE BOARD.

UM, SLIDE 16, A SITE PLAN, SITE PLAN REVIEW.

UM, AND THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT A SITE PLAN LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT COMES INTO THE BOARD.

AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO VERIFY, UM, ANY OTHER ISSUES THAT WE COULD FIND OR THAT WE MAY FIND, UM, AND ANY OTHER VIOLATIONS THAT THEY, UM, THEY WOULD NEED TO ALSO REQUEST.

SO PART OF THAT SITE PLAN REVIEW IS TO AVOID ANY SURPRISES.

UM, WE DON'T WANT THEM TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS AND THERE BE SOMETHING ON THE BACK END THAT NEGATES THE WHOLE THING.

UM, WE, WE WANT TO DO THE BEST SERVICE POSSIBLE UPFRONT.

MS. LAMB HAS A BRIEF QUESTION, BUT I WANTED TO SPEAK TO THAT.

UM, LAST HEARING WE HAD A, A CASE WHERE, UM, THE APPLICANT DIDN'T SUBMIT THE FINAL SITE PLAN THAT THEY WANT FOR CONSIDERATION UNTIL MAYBE AN HOUR BEFORE THE ACTUAL HEARING.

UM, WHICH MAKES IT REALLY DIFFICULT FOR THE PUBLIC FORUM, UM, TO HAVE COMMENTS ON WHAT POTENTIALLY THE BOARD COULD BE APPROVING, BUT EVEN MORE SO MORE DIFFICULT ON CITY STAFF TO REALLY LOOK AT THE PLANS AND BE COMFORTABLE WITH AND SEE IF IT'S IN COMPLIANCE.

IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN MAYBE POTENTIALLY, UH, REQUIRE THE APPLICANT TO HAVE A, A FINAL SITE PLAN IN MAYBE A FEW DAYS PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING? UM, IN ORDER TO ASSURE THAT STAFF, THE PUBLIC AND THE BOARD IS GETTING A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE POTENTIALLY COULD BE COMMITTING TO THE LAND.

THE, THE ULTIMATE POWER OF THE PANEL IS TO POSTPONE EITHER TO DENY THE APPLICATION OR POSTPONE THE HEARING TO THE NEXT MONTH.

THAT

[05:30:01]

THAT'S YOUR ULTIMATE POWER.

UH, I DON'T KNOW IF OUR RULES SPECIFY A DEADLINE OF WHEN THE STAFF MAY HAVE THEIR SUBMISSION RULES, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF OUR RULES SPECIFY WHEN INFORMATION IS GERMANE OR NOT IN THE DEADLINE OF THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT DOES 10 DAYS.

YEAH, I DON'T, MY ONLY THOUGHT WOULD BE THE SEVEN DAYS PRIOR.

'CAUSE THAT'S WHEN EVERYTHING'S POSTED.

BUT I, I, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID, I I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER.

YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK OUR RULES SAY THAT WE CAN'T ACCEPT SOMETHING BECAUSE WE OCCASIONALLY GET THINGS ON THE FLY AND YOU'RE CORRECT.

THAT'S NOT VERY FAIR FOR BOTH SIDES.

ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A SITE PLAN.

IT'S ONE THING IF IT'S EVIDENCE THAT WE COULD THEN, YOU KNOW, HAVE, YOU KNOW, CALL IT A QUESTION.

BUT WHEN WE'RE MAKING A MOTION THAT'S TIED TO A SITE PLAN AND WE'RE NOT GETTING A SITE PLAN, THE PUBLIC'S NOT GETTING THE SITE PLAN WITHIN A PROPER AMOUNT OF TIME.

IT'S, IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR TO STAFF OR THE APPLICANT.

I'VE GOT MR. SAUK.

WELL, IS IS THE SITE PLAN PART OF A COMPLETE APPLICATION? YES, SIR.

WELL, I THINK THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION.

IT'S DUE BEFORE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TAKE THE MONEY AND A MARKET APPROVED, WE OFTENTIMES MAKE, MAKE MOTIONS BASED ON AN AMENDED SITE PLAN.

AND THAT'S HOW WE GET ALONG.

HOLD ON ONE SECOND.

SO MR. SAUK HAS THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW, THEN I'VE GOT MS. DAVIS WHO RAISED YOUR HAND.

MR. SEK CONTINUE.

WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU BUMP 'EM TO THE NEXT TIME.

THAT'S NOT FAIR TO ANYONE.

YOU KNOW, IF IT'S AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION, YOU CAN'T SHIFT GEARS IN THE MIDDLE OF A HEARING.

THAT'S THE PREROGATIVE OF THE PANEL AND IT'S A MAJORITY VOTE THAT CONTROLS THAT.

MS. DAVIS.

WELL IF THE APPLICATION IS NOT COMPLETE, DOES IT, DO WE SEE IT? SO IF THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE HANDING IN EVERYTHING BUT THAT WHICH IS PART OF THE REQUIRED APPLICATION, WHY ARE WE EVEN, WHY IS THAT CASE COMING BEFORE US? NO, THAT, THAT APPLICATION IS COMPLETE BECAUSE THEY DO PROVIDE A SITE PLAN.

I THINK WHAT MS. LAMB WAS TALKING ABOUT IS WHEN THEY COME IN LAST MINUTE WITH A REVISED SITE PLAN FOR US TO REVIEW, YOU STILL HAVE THE FLOOR.

CAN WE PUT A DEADLINE ON THE ANY REVISION? SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

I'VE, THERE IS A, THERE IS A DEADLINE FOR REVISIONS, BUT I'VE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD, OR I THINK WE'VE ALL ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THAT IT'S UP TO THE BOARD IF THEY COME IN THAT LAST MINUTE WITH THE NEW OR REVISED SITE PLAN.

SHE, SHE'S CORRECT BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, I HATE TO SAY THE TERM NEGOTIATED THE PODIUM, YOU KNOW, ON SOMETHING, BUT THAT'S THE PREROGATIVE OF THE PANEL.

NOW MR. S'S POINT IS THAT'S NOT FAIR TO EITHER PARTY AND WE SHOULD PUSH IT, BUT THAT'S A FUNCTION OF THE PANEL'S DISCRETION TO POSTPONE, DENY OR APPROVE.

IS THERE ANY, HOLD ON MS. LAMB.

JUST A SECOND.

I'M WANTING TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE ELSE HAS A CHANCE TO ONE SECOND HERE.

KNOW, I, I'D I'D BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.

NOW, MS. LAMB, IS THERE ANY WAY THOUGH THAT WE CAN HAVE A, AT LEAST A A STAFF HAS THE ABILITY TO HAVE A, URGE THEM STRONGLY TO HAVE IT IN WITHIN SEVEN DAYS? I THINK YOU ALWAYS URGE THEM TO GET THEIR STUFF IN.

I THINK IT HAPPENS.

WELL I'M GUESSING YOU HAVE THIS CHANGING MOTION AS YOU GET CLOSER TO THE HEARING AND YOU MAY HAVE NEIGHBORS TO SAYING, I WON'T SUPPORT IT IF THIS IS THIS OR VERSUS THAT.

AND UH, AND AGAIN, THAT COMES BACK TO THE DISCRETION OF THE PANEL.

UNLESS WE AS A BOARD WANNA CHANGE OUR RULES THAT SAY SOMETHING SPECIFIC.

UH, I MEAN I I WOULD BE OPEN TO THAT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE PROCESS IS FAIR TO THE PUBLIC, UH, TO THE BOARD, TO APPLICANT OR STAFF IF WE DON'T TRULY KNOW AND HAVE VETTED A SITE PLAN.

AND IT COULD EVEN JUST BE 48 HOURS BEFORE.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS YEAH, BECAUSE THIS IS RUNNING OF THE LAND AND IF IT'S A STAFF AND THE BOARD AND THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE THE FULL SCOPE OF WHETHER THIS SITE PLAN IS EVEN SOMETHING THAT FITS WITHIN THE PARAMETER OF THE DEVELOPMENT CODE.

OKAY, THANK YOU MS. LAMB.

VICE CHAIR GABO.

I'LL JUST MAKE A COMMENT THAT THIS IS NOT UNIQUE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.

THE CPC 20 MINUTES BEFORE THEY'RE GONNA HEAR A HEARING ON A CASE THAT YOU ARE MAKING MAJOR CHANGES ON ZONING OR HEARING THINGS.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THE CITY'S GONNA MAKE A CHANGE AND COUNCIL MEETINGS, THEY'RE NOT GONNA MAKE A CHANGE FOR US.

SO I MEAN, WHILE IT WOULD BE LOVELY, HER POINT IS THEIR RULES DON'T PROHIBIT IT.

AND SO THAT SHE'S DOUBTFUL THE COUNCIL WOULD APPROVE OUR RULES PROHIBITING IT.

'CAUSE THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE SOME SYMMETRY AMONGST PLANNING COMMISSION, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND COUNCIL, IF I MAY.

YES, MR. SAP, UH, MS. GABO IS RIGHT, UM, IN HER COMMENT.

AND ANOTHER THING YOU MIGHT CONSIDER IS THAT BY HAVING THEM CHANGE IT, THEN YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY MUST ADHERE TO THOSE RULES BY KEEPING IT THE WAY IT IS.

YOU GUYS CAN, UH, MOVE MORE FLUIDLY.

THE EACH PANEL CAN MOVE FLUIDLY TO HOW THEY SEEM TO CHOOSE, CHOOSE HOW THEY CHOOSE TO MOVE FORWARD.

EXCUSE ME.

YEAH, I I'M HESITANT TO PUT A ABSOLUTE IN PLACE.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE PANEL MEMBERS TO, YOU KNOW, AS WE ALWAYS ARE TOLD, EVERY CASE THAT STANDS ON ITS OWN, NO CASE SETS A PRECEDENT.

YOU

[05:35:01]

I THINK YOU ALL IN A PANEL OF FIVE, THREE PANELS OF FIVE MAKE JUDGEMENTS ON ARE YOU GETTING A FAIR INFORMATION AT THE TIME.

AND IF YOU FEEL WHETHER IT'S A SIGN OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S NOT SUFFICIENTLY FAIR TO BOTH SIDES, YOU MAKE A MOTION TO POSTPONE IT FOR THE NEXT MONTH IF YOU, IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY.

UM, SO, OKAY, WE GOTTA KEEP MOVING 'CAUSE FOUR O'CLOCK'S COMING REAL QUICK GUYS.

MR. SAUK.

OH, AND, AND I WOULD JUST SAY THERE ARE MINOR CHANGES TO THE SITE PLAN AND THEN THERE ARE MAJOR ONES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

AND SO WE HAVE TO USE JUDGMENT IN THAT CASE AND THAT'S WHY I KIND OF, I'D PREFER THE JUDGMENT BE STILL TO THE PANELS RATHER THAN FOR US TO MAKE A HARDCORE BOARD.

NOW THE BOARD DECIDES THAT I, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANNA PUT THAT IN PLACE AND MS. LAMB VERY BRIEFLY, WE GOTTA KEEP GOING THEN CAN WE THEN MAYBE HAVE CITY STAFF STRONGLY NOTE TO THE APPLICANT THAT ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO SITE PLAN, YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO A WEEK BEFORE THE HEARING THAT THERE, THERE'S A CHANCE THAT THE BOARD WON'T MAKE A MOTION ON THAT CASE.

I, I WOULD RECOMMEND NOT.

UH, THE, THE STAFF IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN IMPARTIAL ARBITRATOR.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE EXPERTS.

THEY'RE THE ONE, THEY'RE THE TECHNICIANS THERE.

THEY DO THE ANALYSIS.

UH, THEY'RE, THEY SHOULDN'T BE COACHING DISSUADING OR OTHERWISE APPLICANTS THAT COME FORWARD.

UM, I JUST, WE JUST SEE IT ALL THE TIME.

I, WELL, I, I UNDERSTAND.

I JUST, BUT AS ROBERT, MR. AGNES JUST SAID, WE CAN DENY IT IF YOU THINK THERE'S AN ABUSE OR YOU COULD POSTPONE IT.

I JUST, I HESITATE RECOMMENDING TO THE BOARD THAT WE CREATE A HIGHER STANDARD BECAUSE I THINK THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.

AND NUMBER TWO, ANY CHANGES TO OUR RULES HAVE TO GO TO THE COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF RULES.

THEY MAKE CHANGES ON THE FLY RIGHT THERE AT THAT PODIUM.

, IT'S, I'M NOT BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO COUNSEL, THAT'S JUST WHAT THEY DO.

IT HAPPENS.

SO, ALRIGHT, WE NEED TO COME TO CONCLUSION ON THIS BECAUSE, UH, I, I HAVE A FEAR, MR. FINNEY, AT ANY MOMENT WE'LL MAKE A MOTION, DON'T YOU DARE NOR YOU MR. SASHING.

OH, OKAY.

GO AHEAD.

ANYTHING ELSE MS. DIANA? MY LAST BULLET POINT WAS, UH, THE DISCUSSION OF STANDARDS.

SO THE FINAL STEP OF THE PRE-SCREEN IS COMMUNICATING TO THE APPLICANT THE STANDARDS THAT MUST BE MET, WHETHER IT BE A VARIANCE OR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.

UH, WE DISCUSSED THESE STANDARDS DURING THE APPLICANT'S INITIAL CONTACT AS WELL AS DURING THE PRE-SCREEN, THE INTAKE AND THE INTRODUCTION LETTER FROM THE SENIOR PLANNER.

SO THAT CONCLUDES THE INTAKE PORTION OR THE PRE-SCREEN PORTION.

UM, AND MS CA IS GONNA TALK ABOUT THE, UM, APPLICATION.

SORRY, COMPLETE.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

COMPLETE APPLICATION IS WHEN THE CODE SPECIALIST HAS VERIFIED THAT ALL LEGAL AND TECHNICAL DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED DURING THIS TIME.

WE DETERMINE AND APPROVE THAT ALL THE REQUIRED ITEMS, UM, HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED PER THE CHECKLIST.

WE STAMP THE DATE OF ACCEPTANCE ON THE APPLICATION WITH THE BDA NUMBER, FULL PAYMENT IS RENDERED AND THE SIGN AND STAKES ARE GIVEN.

AFTER WE VERIFY THAT ALL THE DOCUMENTS ON THE CHECKLIST HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED, WE STAMPED THE APPLICATION.

AS YOU SEE HERE ON THIS SLIDE.

UH, WE STAMPED THE APPLICATION WITH THE RECEIVE STAMP AND WE ALSO, UM, HAND WRITE THE BDA NUMBER ON THE TOP.

AND THAT'S WHEN YOU TAKE PAYMENT, CORRECT? UM, I'LL SHOW IT ON THE NEXT SLIDE AS WELL.

UM, DURING THIS TIME, UH, WHEN WE, UM, STAMP THE APPLICATION, WE ALSO REITERATE THE STANDARDS AND HOW MUCH IN AND OUT TIME IS THERE BETWEEN A TYPICAL APPLICANT WHERE THEY COME IN PRE-SCREEN, COME BACK, COME IN, COME BACK.

I MEAN, UM, THAT'S, IT'S HARD TO ANSWER BECAUSE WE, I COULD HAVE A PRE-SCREEN THAT I COMPLETED THREE MONTHS AGO, COME BACK AND SUBMIT FOR THIS NEXT DEADLINE.

WOW.

SO THEY'RE SITTING, SITTING OUT HERE, THEY'RE SITTING, YOU'VE BEEN AT MY DESK.

YOU'VE SEEN THE , ALL THE PAPERWORK.

THOSE ARE APPLICATIONS THAT THEY'VE DROPPED OFF FOR PRE-SCREEN.

I'VE DONE MY PRE-SCREEN.

I EMAILED THEM THAT EITHER THAT DAY, THE NEXT DAY, WITHIN THAT WEEK, AND THEY DON'T COME BACK FOR MONTHS LATER.

SO THAT'S KIND OF A QUESTION I REALLY CAN'T ANSWER.

WE TYPE UP THE INVOICE, SEND THEM DOWNSTAIRS TO MAKE THE PAYMENT, COME BACK AND WE'LL HAVE THEIR SIGNS READY FOR THEM.

ON THIS SLIDE YOU'LL SEE THE INVOICE, UM, FOR THE BDA CASES, WHICH IS CREATED IN POLICY, UM, A COPY IS THEN PRINTED OUT FOR THE CUSTOMER AND THEY'LL TAKE TO THE CASHIER'S OFFICE TO MAKE THE PAYMENT.

AND IS PAYMENT ALWAYS MADE IN PERSON OR IS IT SENT ELECTRONICALLY? IT IS IN PERSON.

WE CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE, UM, THE SYSTEM SET UP TO PAY ONLINE.

SO THAT REQUIRES THE APPLICANT TO COME BACK.

IS THAT'S MY IN AND OUT QUESTION.

NO, I'M JUST, YEAH, THAT'S THE REASON WE, WE'D LIKE TO MAKE APPOINTMENTS FOR THEM TO COME BACK SO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE GONNA COME IN, WE'RE READY FOR THEM TO ACCEPT THEIR APPLICATION.

CHECK IT ALL.

WELL, THE PRE-SCREEN HAD ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED, SO THIS IS LIKE, YES, EVERYTHING'S GOOD TO GO.

BRING IN YOUR ORIGINALS.

UH,

[05:40:01]

AFTER THE PAYMENT HAS BEEN COMPLETED, WE HAVE THE CUSTOMER FILL OUT THE, UM, NOTIFICATION FORMS SHOWING THAT THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE SIGNS.

UM, AS YOU SEE HERE ON THIS SLIDE, YOU'LL SEE OUR NEW BDA SIGNS WITH THE STAKES, UM, WHICH ALSO SHOWS THE BDA CASE NUMBER.

ON THE BOTTOM LEFT, YOU'LL SEE THE QR CODE, WHICH HAS BEEN ADDED ON.

AND, UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU'LL SCAN THAT QR CODE AND IT TAKES YOU TO THE CASE FOR MORE INFORMATION.

AND THIS CONCLUDES OUR PRESENTATION FOR THE INTAKE PROCESS.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS AT THIS PROCESS? LET'S KEEP MOVING.

THANK, OH, MR. SAUK, ONE QUICK QUESTION, PLEASE FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE SIGNS.

SO THE APPLICANT THEN IS RESPONSIBLE TO GO BACK TO THEIR PROPERTY, PUT THE SIGN UP, ARE THEY RESPONSIBLE TO MONITOR IT AND MAKE SURE IT'S UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE HEARING? WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT PART OF IT? UH, WHEN I GIVE THE CUSTOMERS THE SIGN OF THE STAKES, I DO EXPLAIN TO THEM THE PROCESS THAT THEY HAVE 14 DAYS FROM THAT DAY TO POST THE SIGN.

AND IT MUST REMAIN UNTIL AFTER THE HEARING.

AND THEN WHO'S RESPONSIBLE IF THE KIDS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD STEAL THEM? AND, UM, WE ACTUALLY ASK THE APPLICANT TO TAKE A PICTURE OF IT JUST FOR THEIR RECORDS.

AND IF ANYTHING HAPPENS, IF IT GETS DAMAGED, IF IT GETS STOLEN, WHATEVER, UM, THEN THEY COULD COME BACK TO US AND JUST SHOW US BECAUSE WE DO CHARGE $10.

BUT IF THEY HAVE THAT PICTURE SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A STAMP DATE ON THERE SAYING THAT IT WAS POSTED, UM, THEN WE JUST REPLACE 'EM FOR THEM.

AND THERE ARE RULES ABOUT SOME PROPERTIES REQUIRING ONE SIGN VERSUS TWO SIGNS? CORRECT.

REGARDING, REGARDING THE BLOCK FACE, THE, THE RIGHT YES.

YOU NEED, YOU NEED ONE, ONE SIGN PER STREET FRONTAGE.

UM, BUT IT'S, IF IT, IF THE STREET FRONTAGE IS OVER 500 FEET AND THEN YOU WOULD REQUIRE TWO.

GOT IT.

AND SO ON.

YES, DOCTOR? UM, I ALSO WANT REITERATE THAT, UM, WHEN THE SIGNS ARE POSTED OR WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE POSTED, UM, THE SENIOR PLANNER DOES DO GO OUT TO THE SITE TO CONDUCT SITE VISITS TO GET PICTURES FOR, UM, THE BOARD PRESENTATION.

AND IT'S DURING THAT TIME THAT WE RECOGNIZE OR REALIZE THAT THE SIGN HAS BEEN POSTED OR HASN'T BEEN POSTED.

AND THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE I GO OUT AND THE SIGN IS NOT POSTED, SO I IMMEDIATELY GO BACK TO THE OFFICE AND REACH OUT TO THAT APPLICANT OR THAT HOMEOWNER TO LET THEM KNOW THAT.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

A SIGN HAS, YOU KNOW THAT WE CONDUCTED A SITE VISIT AND THE SIGN WASN'T POSTED OR WASN'T POSTED PROPERLY.

AND THAT ONCE THEY RECTIFIED THE ISSUE, THEN THEY SHOULD SEND US PICTURES OF, UM, THE SIGN TO MAKE SURE THAT THANK YOU.

IT'S, UM, POSTED PROPERLY.

THANK YOU MR. CHAIR.

MS. MS. LAMB, DID YOU HEAR THAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT SIGNS? OH MY GOODNESS, MR. FINNEY.

UH, AND SO WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU GIVE THEM THE, THE SIGNS DO YOU SPECIFY A DISTANCE, MINIMUM DISTANCE FROM THE STREET THAT THE SIGN SHOULD BE LOCATED SO THAT IT IS PROPERLY VISIBLE? UM, YES, WE DO TELL THEM.

WE DON'T GIVE 'EM A SPECIFIC DISTANCE BECAUSE THERE IS NO SPECIFIC DISTANCE, BUT WE SAY THE BOARD LIKES TO SEE IT AT LEAST FIVE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.

'CAUSE THAT WAS THE DISTANCE THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME.

UM, BUT WE DO SAY THAT IT HAS TO BE ON THE STREET FRONTAGE, UM, WITHOUT ANY OBSTRUCTIONS OR ANYTHING.

UM, NOW THAT WE HAVE THE STAKES, IT'S EASIER TO TELL THEM, YOU KNOW, DIG IT IN THE GROUND, NOT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD TIE IT ON THE TREE OR TIE IT ON THE FENCE.

UM, BUT YEAH, SO WE DO GIVE THEM THAT INFORMATION.

SO YOU DO SAY WITHIN FIVE FEET, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? WE DO TELL 'EM THAT YOU GUYS, THAT YOU PREFER IT TO BE WITHIN FIVE FEET, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S REALLY NOT MANDATORY FOR THEM TO HAVE IT THERE, BUT I THINK THAT'S A GOOD DISTANCE.

AWESOME.

THANKS.

THANK YOU MR. FINNEY.

UM, FOLLOWING THE TRANSITION, THESE EIGHT OBJECTIVES WERE ESTABLISHED FOR HOW THIS TRANSITION WOULD OCCUR.

APPRECIATE IT.

MR. POOL, YOU HAVE TWO COMPONENTS OF A PRESENTATION.

SO BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT WE HAVE LEFT ON OUR AGENDA ARE, UH, THE STAFF'S OBJECTIVES REVIEW AND THEIR, THEIR BLUEPRINT PLAN FOR 2324.

THEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR COMMENTS AND FEEDBACK FROM THE BOARD.

THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO, UH, OUR MEETING CALENDAR, ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND GOALS AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR 2324.

UH, MY TARGET IS STILL FOUR O'CLOCK.

UM, SO WE'RE, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP FOCUSED ON THAT, MR. POOLE.

SO AGAIN, THESE, THESE NEXT TWO PRESENTATIONS ARE KIND OF DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH EACH OTHER.

THIS FIRST ONE IS ON OUR PERFORMANCE IN TERMS OF, UH, THIS PREVIOUS YEAR.

SO I'M GONNA TRY AND GO THIS THROUGH THIS ONE VERY QUICKLY.

UM, I THINK THEY'LL, THEY'LL PROBABLY BE MORE QUESTIONS ON THE SECOND ONE, BUT, UH, ONE SECOND.

SO, SO JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND.

UM, THE BOARD TRANSITION FROM PLANNING AND URBAN DESIGN TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ON OCTOBER 1ST, 2022.

[05:45:03]

UH, THESE WERE PUT IN PLACE ON NOVEMBER 1ST, 2022.

UM, THESE ARE TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT SOME OF OUR, OUR EFFORTS.

UM, AGAIN, OUR, OUR MAIN MISSION WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IS, IS TO PROVIDE THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE WE CAN TO ALL OUR STAKEHOLDERS AND THE RESIDENTS.

UM, WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS PROCESS CAN BE VERY INTRICATE.

UH, IT IS COMPLEX AND I THINK IT'S VERY KEY THAT WE, WE, WE FOCUS ON MAKING THIS AS CLEAR AND STREAMLINED AS WE CAN.

UM, SOME OF THE THINGS WE INITIALLY IDENTIFIED IN THESE OBJECTIVES WERE, UH, A LACK OF, OF TRACKING ON A LOT OF OUR THINGS.

AND A LOT OF THE, THE THINGS WE'RE PUSHING FOR ARE INCREASED METRICS AND, AND WHAT WE WILL BE TRACKING.

AND THEN, UH, HIGH STAFF TURNOVER.

UM, I WILL, WILL MAKE IT A POINT TO SAY THAT AS OF, UH, I BELIEVE JANUARY 1ST, ALL OF OUR STAFF WAS NEW, UM, OR HAD BEEN, HAD BEEN, UH, HAD NEVER WORKED WITH THE BOARD BEFORE.

SO OBJECTIVE ONE WAS TO IMPROVE ALL STAFF BOARD PROPERTY OWNER ASPECTS OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, TIMELINESS, TRANSPARENCY, ACCURACY, AND TEAMWORK.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, BOARD THIS, THESE ARE THE EIGHT OBJECTIVES.

WE AS A BOARD LAST YEAR ON NOVEMBER 1ST, ADOPTED, THESE ARE OUR EIGHT OBJECTIVES THAT WE ADOPTED.

WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT BETTER METRICS ON HOW TO EVALUATE.

SO THE, THE OVERALL TIME FROM APPLICATION TO HEARING AND, UH, WE'RE CALLING THAT A TO H, UM, WE, WE WERE ABLE TO REDUCE THAT SOME, UH, WE DON'T FEEL THAT THAT'S IN ANY WAY ADEQUATE YET, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF THE, THE 60 DAY, UH, TIMEFRAME THAT, THAT'S BEING LOOKED AT.

UM, I THINK INITIALLY WE WERE LOOKING AT, UH, 78 DAYS.

UM, WE, WE REDID SOME OF THE NUMBERS, UH, TO ACCOUNT FOR SOME, SOME THINGS THAT WE COULDN'T CONTROL.

AND, AND WE WERE ABLE, ABLE TO PULL IT DOWN TO 75 AND LOOKED AT A COUPLE OTHER THINGS.

THAT WAS 73.

I THINK THE POINT OF THIS IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH METRICS IN PLACE TO HAVE A, A VERIFIABLE WAY OF, OF SHOWING THAT THIS IS AT 60 DAYS YET.

UM, WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING IT FROM THE STAMP DATE ON THE APPLICATION.

AND OUR, OUR GOAL IS TO GET THIS AS AT 60 DAYS AT SOME POINT.

UM, WE DID ADD THREE NEW TRADES TO OUR TECHNICAL REVIEW.

UM, THIS INCLUDED CODE COMPLIANCE, OUR ZONING TEAM.

UM, IT ALSO INCLUDED OUR RESIDENTIAL TEAM.

AND, UH, WE'VE PARTNERED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN TERMS OF THE WAY WE DO REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS.

AND, UH, WE'VE, WE'VE SOUGHT TO HAVE REGULAR COLLABORATION WITH, WITH THE BOARD CHAIRMAN.

UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE STRUGGLED WITH.

AND, UH, WE DO ADMIT THAT.

AND I THINK, UH, MY ROLE IN THIS HAS, HAS BEEN PUT IN PLACE TO TRY AND TRANSITION THAT, UH, TO WHERE IT'S NOT SUCH A POINT OF CONTENTION, BUT THAT, UH, WE'RE OPEN TO FEEDBACK AND THAT WE, WE CONTINUE TO KEEP THAT OPEN DIALOGUE TOWARDS THE, THE TEAMWORK ASPECT.

SO OBJECTIVE TWO WAS TO SUCCESSFULLY TRANSITION CITY STAFF FROM DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, WITH A NEW BOARD MILL ADMINISTRATOR AND SENIOR PLANNERS.

SO, AS, AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED, I THINK, UH, WE WENT THROUGH THREE BOARD ADMINISTRATORS.

UM, OVER THIS TIME, UH, OUR, OUR CURRENT ADMINISTRATOR, MS. DUNN, UH, WAS PUT IN PLACE ON JANUARY 1ST.

UH, OVERALL WE WERE EXPAND.

WE EXPANDED THE TEAM FROM FIVE TO SEVEN.

THIS INCLUDED TWO NEW SENIOR POSITIONS, A SENIOR PLANS EXAMINER, AND A NEW SENIOR, UH, PLANNER.

AND WE RECLASSIFIED TWO OF THE POSITIONS, INCLUDING MS. WILLIAMS' POSITION FROM A, UH, ADMIN, ADMIN SPECIALIST, TWO TO A, UH, BOARD SECRETARY, OR EXCUSE ME, A BOARD COORDINATOR.

AND THEN, UH, MS. COMBS POSITION FROM A SENIOR PLANS EXAMINER TO A PROJECT COORDINATOR.

UM, CURRENTLY OUR TWO SENIOR POSITIONS ARE, ARE VACANT AND WE'RE LOOKING TO GET THOSE FILLED, AND I'LL GET INTO THIS WITH THE NEXT ONE.

IN THE FIRST QUARTER, UM, WE STARTED QUA CROSS TRAINING AND MENTORING PROGRAMS. UH, WE'RE LOOKING TO CROSS TRAIN EACH OF OUR MEMBERS ON AT LEAST TWO ROLES, AND I'LL INTRODUCE THAT GOAL IN THE NEXT ONE.

AND WE INTRODUCED LUNCH AND LEARNS, WHICH ARE PUBLIC TRAINING, UH, IN AUGUST AND NOVEMBER OF, OR NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.

AUGUST OF THIS YEAR.

OBJECTIVE THREE IS TO SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE THE, UH, APPLICATION TO HEARING TIMELINE.

AGAIN, WE, WE GOT A SLIGHT REDUCTION, BUT, UH, WE DID NOTICE THAT THERE WERE A DECLINE IN THE BOARD CASES.

UM, THE POTENTIAL FOR THIS WAS, UH, IN OUR MINDS COULD BE SOMEWHAT ATTRIBUTED TO OUR ENHANCED CONSULTATIONS.

BUT AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING

[05:50:01]

UM, BUT AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PREVIOUSLY, WE, WE DO, DO, WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TRY AND PRESENT ALL THE OPTIONS TO AN APPLICANT WHEN THEY COME THROUGH THE BOARD.

OBJECTIVE FOUR, UH, SIGNIFICANT WEBSITE ENHANCEMENTS TO INCREASE TAXPAYER PROPERTY OWNER ACCESS AND AWARENESS OF PENDING ZONING APPEALS.

SO WE DID IMPLEMENT THE NEW APPLICATION PACKET, WHICH WE REFERENCED EARLIER WITH THE CHECKLIST.

UM, WE PUT IN A LIVE SPEAKER REGISTRATION SYSTEM TO WHERE ONCE YOU REGISTER ONLINE, YOU IMMEDIATELY SEE ON THE WEBSITE THAT, THAT YOU'VE REGISTERED.

AND THIS ALLOWS ACCESS AT ANY TIME, EVEN DURING THE HEARINGS TO SHOW WHO'S REGISTERED AND WHO'S NOT WITHOUT A PRINTED COPY AND, UH, REFINE SOME OF THE INTAKE DOCUMENTATION.

UH, WE DID FACE SOME SETBACKS IN, IN NOT HAVING A CASE LOG UP.

UM, IN THAT TIMEFRAME, I THINK THAT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED AT SOME POINT.

SO RATHER THAN HAVING TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER DEPARTMENT OR ANOTHER COORDINATOR TO GET A WEBSITE UPDATED, WE COULD DO IT ON THE FLY, UH, WITH, WITH THE EXISTING STAFF WE HAD FOR, FOR SUPPORTING THE BOARD.

UH, OBJECTIVE FIVE MEETING AGENDA DOCKETS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE WITHIN SEVEN DAYS ADVANCE OF HEARING.

UM, AGAIN, WE DID FACE SOME SETBACKS HERE, UH, IN REGARD TO HAVING TO GO THROUGH OTHER PLACES, UH, AND EQUIPPING THE BOARD COORDINATOR.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MEET, UH, THE PAST TWO MONTHS, AND SINCE WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THROUGH, UH, SEPTEMBER 30TH, THE FIRST TWO MONTHS, AND WE WERE ALSO ABLE TO GET THAT THIS MONTH AS WELL.

UM, MR SIX, JEFF SUCCEEDED IN THAT.

SORRY, WAS THERE A QUESTION? I THINK YOU SUCCEEDED IN THAT, IN GETTING THE STUFF UP SEVEN DAYS, 85% OF THE TIME, I WANNA SAY THERE WAS A NUMBER WE SAW THAT WAS AT 85%.

THAT'S NOT TER I MEAN, OKAY.

I'LL TAKE WHATEVER YOU GIVE US.

I, SO OBJECTIVE SIX.

QUARTERLY ENHANCED TRAINING OF MEMBERS ALTERNATES ON RULES, UH, CONFLICT OF INTEREST CRITERIA FOR DECISION MAKING AND ONBOARDING OF NEW MEMBERS.

UM, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE, WE MET THIS GOAL ADEQUATELY.

UH, WE DID START THE LUNCH AND LEARN PROGRAM, AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE TEND TO, OR WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS IN, IN THE STRATEGIC EFFICIENCY PLAN FOR THIS COMING YEAR.

UM, I WILL GET INTO MORE DETAIL ON THAT IN THE NEXT, UH, IN THE NEXT PRESENTATION.

BUT THIS IS SOMETHING WE, WE, WE STRUGGLED WITH.

UH, OBJECTIVE SEVEN WAS IMPROVING SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNER NOTIFICATION PROCESS.

UH, THE AREA OF NOTIFICATION INCREASE TO 300 FEET, CLARIFYING THE FORMAT OF NOTIFICATION AND MAILING DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING.

UH, I BELIEVE WE DID APPROACH THE CITY ATTORNEY WITH THIS AND, AND STARTED THIS PROCESS, BUT I THINK THROUGH FURTHER EVALUATION, UH, THE BOARD HAS DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE THIS OBJECTIVE.

IS THAT CORRECT? WHEN WE WENT THROUGH OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE CHANGE PROCESS WITH THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, WE GOT FEEDBACK FROM SEVERAL COUNCIL MEMBER SAYING, WELL, MAYBE NOT SO.

SO THAT WAS IN A VOTE OF THE COUNCIL.

THAT WAS JUST A SENTIMENT OF SAYING, 200 IS FINE.

THEY, SO THE SENTIMENT THAT I GOT BACK FROM THEM WAS, WELL, MAYBE NOT RIGHT NOW.

SO WE JUST PUT THAT THREE, 300 THRESHOLD ON HOLD.

AND FINALLY, OBJECTIVE EIGHT WAS TO OBTAIN MORE COMPREHENSIVE STAFF TECHNICAL REPORT PRESENTATIONS FOR APPEAL, UH, HEARINGS WITH ENHANCED PHOTOS AND PROPERTY COMPARISONS.

SO, UH, AS FAR AS THIS YEAR, WE DID, UH, ENLIST ADDITIONAL STAFF, AS I MENTIONED WITH THE STAFF REVIEW TEAM, UH, INCLUDING THE CODE COMPLIANCE TEAM ZONING AND RESIDENTIAL TO GET SOME ADDITIONAL INSIGHT.

AND WE INCORPORATED THE USE OF VIDEO TO TRY AND SUPPLEMENT SOME OF THE PHOTOS.

UM, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE WORKING ON THIS.

UM, AND I'VE GOT SOME MORE, UH, SOME MORE ITEMS TO GO OVER AS IN TERMS OF THAT ONE IN THE, IN THE STRATEGIC EFFICIENCY PLAN.

UM, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO BUILDING ON A YEAR, UH, LEARNING FROM OUR CHALLENGES AND, AND OVERCOMING SOME OF THESE.

UH, AND OUR, OUR GOAL IS, IS ULTIMATELY TO IMPROVE THE TIMELINESS, TRANSPARENCY, ACCURACY, AND TEAMWORK.

AND THOSE ARE THE THEMES FOR THE STRATEGIC EFFICIENCY PLAN.

AND THAT CONCLUDES THAT PRESENTATION.

WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FEEDBACK, FEEDBACK ON THE BOARD.

ALRIGHT, LET'S GO TO THE DIRECTOR'S PLAN FOR 23, 24.

SO, AND, AND TIME'S FLEETING.

SURE.

WE HAVE.

AND SO, SO IT'S YOUR PRESENTATION HERE.

THEN

[05:55:01]

THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO ACTION ITEMS FOR THE BOARD TO HOPEFULLY ADOPT FOR, UH, OUR ANNUAL REPORT, AND THEN HOPEFULLY TO ADJOURNMENT IF I CAN RUN FASTER AHEAD OF MR. FINNEY AND MR. SASHING.

SO AGAIN, THE, THE FOLLOWING GOALS HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED, UH, FOR TIMELINESS, TRANSPARENCY, ACCURACY AND TEAMWORK HAVE, HAVE BEEN THE THEMES AROUND THOSE.

UM, THE HARD NUMBERS WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, UH, WE WANNA SEE A 20% DECREASE IN TIME TO HEARING AND ACHIEVE THIS 60 DAY AVERAGE APPEAL TO HEARING.

UH, WE DO HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON THE CALENDAR THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY PROPOSING NOW BASED ON TRADITIONAL, UH, I GUESS THE TRADITIONAL WAY HAVE THAT, THAT HAS BEEN DONE NOW.

AND I WANNA SHOW SOME NUMBERS INVOLVED WITH THAT.

BUT I THINK, UH, I, I WANNA START SOME DISCUSSION ON, ON HOW TO GET IT TO AN ACTUAL 60 DAY, NO MATTER WHEN AN APPLICATION IS, IS TAKEN IN.

AND WE'LL, WE'LL CALL THAT A MORE DYNAMIC CASE.

SCHEDULING.

UH, AS FAR AS TRANSPARENCY, WE'RE LOOKING AT 100% WEEKLY WEBSITE UPDATES.

UH, WE'LL BE RESERVING FRIDAYS FOR SURE FOR WEBSITE UPDATES.

UM, WE'LL BE PROVIDING THE, THE CASE COUNT, WHICH AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE EVALUATING AS TO WHETHER WE'LL WE'LL PROCEED WITH THAT IN OUR CASE LOG.

UH, WE DO HAVE A CASE LOG IN PLACE NOW, WHICH I'LL, I'LL REFER TO HERE.

UM, WE'LL ALSO BE A POSTING THE, THE DOCKET SEVEN DAYS IN ADVANCE, AND WE'RE SHOOTING FOR A HUNDRED PERCENT ON THAT.

UH, WE ARE INITIATING QUALITY CONTROL ACTIONS, UM, DEPARTMENT WIDE, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY GOT A MEETING SET UP THIS WEEK TO BEGIN INITIATING THOSE FOR EVERY TEAM.

AND WE'LL HAVE POINTS OF, OF MONTHLY CHECKS ON, ON EVERYTHING WE DO IN TERMS OF TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MEET AT LEAST 90% ON THOSE, ON THOSE QUALITY CONTROL CHECKS.

UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT TRANSITIONING TO ELECTRONIC PLAN REVIEW, UM, THAT WILL BE FOR SURE WITHIN THE NEXT 24 MONTHS.

THERE ARE SOME OPTIONS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW, UH, TO INTEGRATE SOME OF THE EXISTING PLAN REVIEW SOFTWARE WE HAVE AND POTENTIALLY HAVE SOME MORE, UH, VERIFIABLE NUMBERS AS TO HOW WE COMMUNICATE WITH CUSTOMERS AND HOW OUR COMMUNICATORS OR OUR CUSTOMERS COMMUNICATE WITH US.

UM, RATHER THAN HAVING TO RUN DOWN AN EMAIL CHAIN ON AN APPLICATION, IT WOULD ALL BE IN ONE PLACE IN THE APPLICATION.

AND IF WE CAN MAKE THAT WORK, WE CAN PUT THAT INTO PLACE NOW.

UM, OTHERWISE IT WILL BE INTEGRATED INTO OUR NEW, OUR NEW LAND MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, UH, ELLA OR THE DALLAS NOW PROJECT, UM, UNDER TEAMWORK, WE'RE LOOKING AT A 50% INCREASE IN OUTREACH AND TRAINING.

UM, WE WANT TO PROVIDE A MINIMUM OF A QUARTERLY OUTREACH AND TRAINING SESSION FOR BOTH STAFF, UH, THE PUBLIC AND FOR BOARD MEMBERS.

ONE OF THE IDEAS WE'RE KICKING AROUND IS IN LIEU OF, UH, THESE, UH, A DECREASE IN CASES, RATHER THAN CANCELING A PANEL, WE WILL LOOK AT, UH, A TRAINING SESSION THAT WOULD INVOLVE EITHER THE CITY ATTORNEY OR STAFF OR SOME OTHER ASPECT, UM, TO DO TRAINING INSTEAD OF, OF CANCELING THE PANEL.

THAT WAY.

WE, WE KIND OF KEEP EVERYBODY FRESH AND WE, WE MEET, UH, THE MODEL FOR, FOR PROVIDING TRAINING THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE.

UM, I'M GONNA GO INTO EACH ONE OF THESE GOALS A LITTLE BIT.

UM, AS FAR AS TIMELINESS, AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING TO RE REDUCE THE APPEAL TO HEARING TIME, UM, AND DO THIS BY EXPLORING A MORE DYNAMIC CALENDAR.

AND WE'RE GONNA PUBLISH CLEAR TIMELINES FOR EVERY, EVERY POINT ON OUR WEBSITE.

UM, WE'LL PICK ALL THE HIGHLIGHTS AND SAY, BY THIS DAY, THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

BY THIS DAY, THIS WILL HAPPEN.

UM, AND THAT WILL HELP US BUILD OUR METRICS AS WELL.

SO THIS IS A, UH, A CURRENT CALENDAR SCHEDULE OF WHAT WE PROPOSE NOW.

AND I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT, UH, AS OF NOW, WE AVERAGE, IF SOMEBODY WERE TO SUBMIT ON THE, THE FRIDAY DEADLINE THAT HAPPENS, UM, THEIR, THEIR CASE WILL BE HEARD WITHIN 53 DAYS ON AVERAGE.

NOW, IF THEY WERE TO SUBMIT THE DAY AFTER THE DEADLINE, IT, IT WON'T AVERAGE OR IT WILL AVERAGE 82 DAYS, WHICH IF YOU FIND THE MEDIAN IN THAT, IT'S, IT'S 67.8 DAYS.

UM, AGAIN, THIS DOESN'T ACHIEVE THE ACTUAL 60 DAY AVERAGE OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DUE TO THE WAY THE THE CALENDAR'S STRUCTURED.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO, AGAIN, JUST, JUST MAKE NOTE THAT WE, WE WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN DISCUSSION ON HOW TO STRUCTURE A CALENDAR THAT WOULD ACHIEVE A 60 DAY GOAL.

UM, THIS CALENDAR MOVED THE DEADLINE ONE DAY, ONE WEEK CLOSER TO THE HEARING DATES

[06:00:01]

TO TRY AND GET A, A BETTER NUMBER FOR WHEN SOMETHING COULD BE RECEIVED.

BUT CURRENTLY, THE, THE MEDIAN ON THOSE TWO NUMBERS BETWEEN THE DAY AFTER THE DEADLINE AND THE DAY OF THE DEADLINE IS 67.8.

SO AS FAR AS TRANSPARENCY GOES, WE'RE LOOKING AT 100% POSTING ON ALL DOCKETS WITHIN SEVEN DAYS.

UH, 100% WEEKLY WEBSITE UPDATES, AND AGAIN, DEDICATING FRIDAY AFTERNOONS TO THE UPDATES, UM, FOR THE TRANSPARENCY.

OH, A QUICK COMMENT THERE VERY QUICKLY.

IT IS, AND I'VE SAID THIS TO YOU PRIVATELY, PUBLICLY, AND OTHERWISE, OUR WEBSITE, AND I'M NOT A TECHIE, I'M A PAPER GUY STILL, BUT OUR WEBSITE HAS GOTTA BE OUR FRONT DOOR TO THE PROPERTY OWNER TAXPAYER HERE.

SO IT'S GOTTA BE SO INTERACTIVE AND SO USER-FRIENDLY THAT THEY KNOW THEY CAN GET THE ANSWER OR THEY CAN GO TO WHERE THEY CAN GET THE ANSWER ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH A SIGN THAT GOES UP IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS RELATE TO A CASE OR A FUTURE HEARING, SO FORTH, SO FORTH, SO FORTH.

THE WEBSITE, THE WEBSITE, THE WEBSITE, SO TO SPEAK TO THAT.

WE ARE IN DEVELOPMENT WITH THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE, UH, TO STREAMLINE THESE PROCESSES.

UH, THERE IS A SECONDARY SITE OUT THERE THAT WE WILL BE TRANSITIONING TO OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS TO HAVE A SINGULAR SITE.

UM, WE DO HAVE MEETINGS SET UP WITH, WITH IT TO TRY AND DEVELOP SOME OF THE ITEMS WE NEED, LIKE THE PENDING CASE LOG, WHICH WE HAVE IN PLACE NOW.

UM, THE, UH, THE SPEAKER REGISTRATION SYSTEM AND, AND SOME OF THOSE OTHER ITEMS. UH, ONE, ONE FEATURE THAT THIS SITE DOES HAVE IS A DIRECT LINK TO REGISTRAR.

UM, AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING AT AS WELL, BUT, UH, ALL, ALL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS HAVE BEEN PUT IN THESE SERIES OF WEBSITES, AND WE'RE WORKING WITH IT TO CUSTOMIZE THE ONE WE HAVE TO FIT ALL THE NEEDS.

IT, IT DOES HAVE A FRESHEN UP LOOK.

IT DOES HAVE SOME OTHER PLACES FOR THINGS, AND I THINK IN THE END, WE CAN PROBABLY ACHIEVE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, UH, IN A BETTER FASHION THAN, THAN MAYBE WHAT WE'VE GOT NOW.

THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING ON.

SO MR. POOL'S BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT, AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

I'VE HAD MORE THAN ONE CONVERSATION WITH THE CITY MANAGER HIMSELF AS WELL AS HIS CHIEF OF STAFF, ABOUT MY CONCERN ABOUT THESE DUAL, MULTIPLE WEBSITES.

ONE THAT'S INACCURATE AND CREATES DISINFORMATION AND THE OTHER THAT ARE OURS, THAT IS OURS THAT WE MULTIPLY UPDATE THAT WE INHERITED FROM PLANNING URBAN DESIGN.

AND SO, UM, BUT I'M BEING ASSURED BY THE CHIEF OF STAFF TO THE CITY MANAGER THAT THIS WILL BE, IT WILL WORK, AND THAT THEY'RE GONNA WORK WITH MR. POOL AND THE BOARD TO MAKE SURE WE DO NOT GO BACKWARDS, BUT WE MOVE FORWARD ON THIS.

BUT I'M PUBLICLY SAYING THAT I, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TREPIDATION BECAUSE WE WANT MORE TRANSPARENCY, NOT LESS, AND, AND WE'RE BEING, WE'RE GONNA BE MOVED INTO A DIFFERENT SET OF WEBSITE ARCHITECTURE.

UM, SO ANYWAY, I'VE SAID IT PUBLICLY.

I, I DO WANT TO ILLUSTRATE ON THE SIGNS.

THE WAY THEY WORK IS CURRENTLY THERE'S A QR CODE HERE.

THIS WILL, THIS, THIS IS A NEW INNOVATION, GUYS.

IF, IF YOU SCAN THIS WITH YOUR PHONE, IT WILL TAKE YOU TO THE, THE BOARD SITE.

UM, AS WE TRANSITION TO THIS NEW SITE, WE WILL REDIRECT THAT.

SO IT'LL, IT'LL WORK SEAMLESSLY.

YOU WON'T EVEN NOTICE A DIFFERENCE, BUT IT DOES TAKE YOU TO THE WEBSITE.

ONCE YOU GET TO THE WEBSITE, THERE'S A GIANT LINK THAT SAYS PENDING CASE LOG, WHICH WILL TAKE YOU TO THIS, THIS FILE ON THE SCREEN THERE.

UM, CURRENTLY, KEEP THAT SIGN UP PLEASE.

I WANT EVERYONE TO SEE SOME OF THE OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THAT THE STAFF HAS MADE BASED ON OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

ONE, YOU SEE THE BDA REPLY@DALLAS.GOV, IT DID NOT HAVE AN EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE.

WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT THAT WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO CALL, BUT IF THEY CAN SEND AN EMAIL AND SAY, I LIKE IT, OR I DON'T LIKE IT, IT'S MUCH BETTER IF THE, THE QR CODE AXIS TELLS THEM EXACTLY WHAT THE APPLICATION WAS, WHAT DID THE APP APPLICANT FILL OUT, WHAT WAS HIS, YOU KNOW, THE THREE PAGE DEAL AND, AND THAT SORT OF DEAL.

SO THIS IS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF WHERE WE WERE.

WE'RE, WE'RE BUILDING METRICS.

SO, LIKE, LIKE CHAIRMAN NEWMAN SAID, WHEN YOU GET TO THE CASE LOG, YOU CLICK ON THE LINK THERE FOR THE CASE NUMBER, AND THAT SHOWS THE APPLICATION DATA.

IT'LL, IT'LL SHOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY SUBMITTED TO US AND WHAT WILL BE IN THE DOCKET LATER, UM, IN TERMS, AND THAT DOESN'T UNDERCUT CUT THEM CALLING MS. DIANA OR DR. MILLER HUSKINS OR OUR BOARD SECRETARY, BUT IT TAKES THEM DIRECTLY TO WHAT THE APPLICANT WROTE AND FILLED OUT.

AND THAT'S REALLY, THAT'S THE SOURCE DOCUMENT.

SO I THINK WE COVERED THAT ONE.

UM, ALRIGHT, AS FAR AS ACCURACY GOES, AGAIN,

[06:05:01]

UM, WE DO HAVE A SURVEY IN PLACE FOR THE DEPARTMENT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE, WE'RE PUSHING WITH A COUPLE OTHER TEAMS IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE FRONT AND CENTER QR CODES, AND WE'RE GONNA SOLICIT, UM, INTENTIONALLY SOLICIT FEEDBACK FROM EVERYBODY WE INTERACT WITH.

I THINK IN PASSING, IT'S, IT'S BEEN JUST KIND OF A, A PASSIVE VIEW TOWARDS THESE SURVEYS THAT IF THEY'RE IN OUR EMAIL SIGNATURES AND THAT KIND OF THING.

BUT IF WE DID A GOOD JOB, LET US KNOW THIS, THIS, WE'RE GONNA ASK FOR FEEDBACK SO WE GET MORE PUBLIC FEEDBACK, UM, THAT WAY WE CAN GROW AND LEARN AND, AND, AND, UH, OBSERVE OUR PROCESSES.

I THINK, UH, IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE BLIND SPOTS AND, AND WHEN SOMEBODY POINTS 'EM OUT, IT, IT MAKES 'EM TO WHERE WE CAN ADDRESS 'EM.

UH, AGAIN, WE'LL IMPLEMENT A QC PROGRAM, UH, WITH MONTHLY QCS.

UH, WE'RE GONNA INVESTIGATE, UH, THE ELECTRONIC PLAN REVIEW PROCESS.

AGAIN, TRYING TO RECAPTURE SOME OF OUR CURRENT PROCESSES TO, TO ACCOUNT FOR THIS.

AND, AND AGAIN, WE'VE GOT PLANS IN PLACE WITHIN THE NEXT 24 MONTHS TO LAUNCH AN ALL ELECTRONIC.

UM, WE HAVE STARTED THOSE CONVERSATIONS TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT CROSSING ANY LINES BY NOT ACCEPTING ALL PAPER, UH, WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

AND AS SOON AS WE HAVE THOSE, I THINK WE'LL, UH, WE'LL GO FULL STEAM ON, ON TRYING TO GET THESE ELECTRONIC.

UM, IT JUST, UH, THERE, THERE'S SO MANY BENEFITS TO ELECTRONIC FROM JUST RESOLUTION TO TRANSFERRING DOCUMENTS TO ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS.

AND JUST THEIR ACCESSIBILITY, UM, PAPER IS, IS DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH SOMETIMES AND GETTING A TIMELY RESPONSE.

IT'S, IT'S MORE CONDUCIVE TO DO IT ELECTRONICALLY THAN IT IS BY PAPER.

UM, WE'RE GONNA EXPLORE THE IDEA OF AN AREA FACT SHEET WHERE WE LOOK AT AREAS AND POTENTIALLY HOW, HOW TO DO THIS, UM, GIVE, GIVE SOME SORT OF A DESCRIPTION FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD OR DESCRIPTORS THAT THAT WOULD ALLOW AND STILL REMAIN IMPARTIAL ON, UH, ON HOW A NEIGHBORHOOD COULD BE CATEGORIZED OR CHARACTERIZED OR PROVIDE SOME KIND OF FEEDBACK ON, ON THAT.

UM, WE WANT TO FURTHER INCORPORATE THE USE OF THE 360 CAMERA INTO THE REPORTS.

UM, I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A, A GOOD THING THAT WE'VE STARTED DOING.

I I DO WANT TO POTENTIALLY LOOK AT TRAINING ON THIS.

UM, AT ANY GIVEN POINT DURING THE PRESENTATIONS, YOU CAN STOP THE CAMERA AND SPIN A 360 DEGREE CIRCLE, SO IT'S NOT JUST A VIDEO.

UM, YOU, YOU CAN TELL THE SENIOR PLANNER TO STOP AND DR. MILLER HOSKINS CAN, CAN TURN COMPLETELY AROUND.

UM, IT IS AN INTERACTIVE VIDEO AND, AND WE'RE GONNA START PUTTING THESE IN THE REPORTS.

THAT'LL GIVE YOU A, AN OPPORTUNITY TO WATCH THE VIDEO AND, AND LOOK AT, LOOK AT THE SITE, NOT JUST THROUGH PHOTOGRAPHS.

UM, WE'RE ALSO GONNA WORK TO COLLABORATE WITH SOME OF OUR INTERNAL EXTERNAL SOURCES TO ENHANCE PRESENTATION QUALITY.

WE'VE GOT A, UH, A NEW TRAINING COORDINATOR, AND WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH HER ON HOW TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF PRESENTATIONS, MAKING THEM MORE READABLE, UH, MAKING THEM MORE CONCISE AND JUST, UH, OVERHAULING SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE WAY THEY LOOK TO MAKE SURE WE'RE COMMUNICATING EVERYTHING WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE FROM THOSE REPORTS.

AS FAR AS TEAMWORK GOES, UM, AGAIN, I'VE BEEN APPOINTED TO, UH, TRY AND HELP BUILD THIS TRUST BETWEEN BOTH STAFF AND THE BOARD AND MAKE SURE THERE'S AN OPEN LINE OF COMMUNICATION AT ALL TIMES AND, AND TRY AND, UH, MOVE THESE PROCESSES INTO PLACES THAT THEY, THEY HADN'T BEEN BEFORE.

UM, WE ARE LOOKING TO FILL ALL OUR STAFF VACANCIES WITHIN THE FIRST QUARTER.

UM, THAT WOULD INCLUDE OUR SENIOR POSITIONS.

UM, WE HAVE DEPARTMENT WIDE, A PERFORMANCE PAY INCENTIVE PLAN WHERE CERTAIN POSITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS HARD TO FILL HR HAS ALLOWED US TO OFFER INCENTIVE PAY AND QUARTERLY BONUSES FOR THOSE POSITIONS.

UH, THESE TWO SENIOR POSITIONS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS, UH, PART OF THAT PROGRAM.

AND LASTLY, WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT, UH, A MINIMUM 80% OF THE STAFF IS TRAINED ON MULTIPLE ROLES.

UM, ONE PART OF THAT IS MAKING SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW TO DO INTAKE.

UH, THE OTHER PART IS JUST HAVING A, ANOTHER ROLE IN THERE THAT IF, IF WE DO HAVE SOMETHING HAPPEN OR SOMEBODY'S OUT, WE, WE, WE AREN'T DEFICIENT IN ANY WAY.

UM, WE DO WANT TO INCREASE TRAINING, UH, AGAIN, QUARTERLY EVENTS AND HAVING, UH, A TRAINING IN READY TO GO.

WHENEVER WE DO IN THE EVENT

[06:10:01]

OF A BOARD CANCELLATION, UM, WE WANT TO DEVELOP THAT ROTATING TRAINING SYSTEM.

UM, WE'RE WORKING TO COLLABORATE WITH THE, UH, CITY ATTORNEY WITH ONBOARDING PROCEDURES FOR NEW MEMBERS.

I KNOW THAT WAS REQUESTED.

UH, WE DO HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE FOR THAT, OR AT LEAST PROCEDURES IN PLACE FOR THAT, THAT THAT WILL WORK TO, TO START IMPLEMENTING AND, AND PUTTING INTO PRACTICE.

UH, AS A SUMMARY, UM, WE JUST WANT TO IMPROVE OUR TIMELINESS, TRANSPARENCY, ACCURACY, AND TEAMWORK.

UH, REDUCE THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF, OF OF DAYS TO HEARING CONSISTENTLY UPDATE AND DEVELOP THE WEBSITE, BUILD, ENHANCE METRICS, ENHANCE OUR CASE REPORTS, AND INCREASE OUTREACH AND TRAINING AND TEAM BUILDING.

AND THAT CONCLUDES THIS PRESENTATION.

THANK YOU, MR. POOLE.

I JOIN YOU AND THE DIRECTOR'S OPTIMISM TO IMPLEMENT EVERY BIT OF IT.

QUESTIONS FOR MR. POOLE, MS. LAMB.

UM, I APPRECIATE THE EFFORT TO, UM, MINIMIZE CANCELING, UM, BOARD HEARINGS BECAUSE OFTENTIMES WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ONE PLANNED, WE HAVE HOLD OVER CASES AND THEN THEY HAVE TO WAIT TWICE AS LONG.

SO I, I LIKE THIS PLAN REGARDING MAYBE HAVING TRAINING SESSIONS, BUT KEEPING THAT OPEN IN THE EVENT THAT WE DO NEED TO HOLD OVER A CASE.

THANK YOU MS. LIM.

THANK YOU, MR. POOLE.

UH, NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS, UH, BOARD MEMBER FEEDBACK.

UH, I'VE BEEN TAKING NOTES ALL DAY FROM THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE.

UM, AND SO I WILL OPEN THIS UP FOR ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK OR COMMENTS.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE GETS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE THEIR FEEDBACK.

MS. DAVIS, I I JUST WANNA THANK MR. POOLE AND THE STAFF FOR ALL THE CHANGES THAT YOU'VE MADE, ESPECIALLY OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.

THE VIDEO'S BEEN EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

PRESENTATIONS SEEM TO BE GOING SMOOTHER.

UM, REALLY APPRECIATE EVERY, ALL OF YOUR GOALS FOR NEXT YEAR, BUT WE'VE REALLY BEEN NOTICING SOME WONDERFUL IMPROVEMENTS SINCE YOU'VE BEEN, UM, WORKING WITH THIS DEPARTMENT.

SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING.

THANK YOU, MS. DAVIS.

OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, MR. SAUK? UH, YEAH, JUST I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK AND, UH, JUST A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.

UH, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD, WE NEED TO GO DIGITAL WHEREVER WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT DIGITAL WOULD REALLY BE THE END GOAL.

AND THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PUBLIC TRAINING, IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR ANYTHING THAT YOU DO AS FAR AS PUBLIC TRAINING IS A VIDEO.

IT'S RECORDED AND IT'S ON THE SITE BECAUSE THE PUBLIC IS A CONSTANT CHURN, WHEREAS IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO TRAIN US AND TO TRAIN STAFF.

JUST TO SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT, UM, OUR 360 VIDEOS HAVE TO BE HOUSED ON A YOUTUBE PAGE, WHICH WE ARE IMPLEMENTING, AND THAT DID CROSS MY MIND IN TERMS OF, OF TRAINING VIDEOS AND OTHER THINGS THAT WE CAN PUT ON THAT YOUTUBE PAGE.

TWO QUESTIONS, UH, MS. LAMB OF FEEDBACK IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR NOW.

YES, I JUST WANT, I'VE GOT MS. LAMB AND THEN DR. GLOVER.

I WANNA COMPLIMENT THE STAFF.

I'VE NOTICED A CHANGE, UM, IN JUST THE WAY THAT OUR BRIEFINGS GO.

UM, I FEEL VERY INFORMED AND PREPARED GOING INTO TO THE HEARINGS NOW.

I ALSO HAVE NOTICED A CHANGE WITH THE APPLICANTS.

I THINK THEY'RE BETTER INFORMED, CAN ARTICULATE THEIR CASE AND ARE BETTER PREPARED COMING IN.

UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO GIVE THAT FEEDBACK.

I'VE NOTICED THAT OVER THE LAST, UM, FEW MONTHS, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE EFFORT YOU HAVE ALL PUT FORTH.

IT REALLY SHOWS IT MAKES OUR JOB EASIER, UM, IN ORDER TO MAKE A TIMELY DECISION.

THANK YOU, MS. LAMB.

DR.

GO GLOVER.

WELL, FIRST I'D LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU TO YOUR STAFF AND YOURSELF AS WELL FOR ALL THE MEN'S WORK YOU'VE PUT IN TO, UH, MAKE THE SYSTEM BETTER.

UH, WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

AS AN ALTERNATIVE.

WHAT, UH, UH, RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST, UH, TO ALSO MAKE THE SYSTEM BETTER IS THAT, UH, SINCE WE ALREADY HAVE A PORTAL WHERE WE HAVE OLD VIDEOS FROM DIFFERENT SESSIONS, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU PUT LINKS TO OLD VIDEOS OF, UM, SESSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, PUT ON ADVISEMENT AND WE HAVE TO HEAR.

'CAUSE SOMETIMES WE COME IN AND THEN IN THE CASES, LIKE, OH, WE DISCUSSED THIS, UH, TWO MONTHS OR THREE MONTHS BACK.

SO IT WILL BE MORE EFFECTIVE FOR US IF WE HAVE A LINK IN THE DOCKET THAT, OKAY.

UH, SAY ON, UH, THIS IS THE LINK TO WHAT THE VIDEO FROM THE PREVIOUS, UM, FROM THE PREVIOUS CASE ON THIS.

DR. GLOVER, ARE YOU SPEAKING TO HOLDOVER CASES? YES.

MM-HMM, , I HEARD THAT COMMENT THAT THROUGH ANOTHER, THAT YOU HAD MADE THAT, THAT SUGGESTION.

SO THAT'S, WELL,

[06:15:01]

WELL-NOTED.

OTHER FEEDBACK OR SUGGESTIONS AT THIS JUNCTURE? I'M NOT GONNA HOLD YOU.

I'M GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM FOR BUSINESS.

UH, AND WE STILL HAVE TIME FOR FEEDBACK AND OTHERWISE, BUT, UM, UH, I WOULDN'T WANNA ECHO MS. LAMB'S AND MS. DAVIS'S COMMENTS.

AND THAT IS, AND I'VE SAID THIS TO YOU PERSONALLY, PRIVATELY, AND I'VE SAID THIS TO, TO DIRECTOR ESPINOZA, THERE HAS BEEN A DEMONSTRATIVE CHANGE AND WE APPRECIATE IT.

WE APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM ARE HERE ALL DAY WITH US TODAY, THAT YOU HEARD COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS HERE.

AND WE SEE PROGRESS AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.

AND PART OF MY COMMENTS ABOUT THE CALENDAR THAT I'M ABOUT TO MAKE GO TO THAT WE WANNA WORK WITH THE STAFF FOR THE TAXPAYER PROPERTY OWNER.

THAT'S, THAT'S OUR GOAL.

NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ACTION ITEMS. UH, WE HAVE A CALENDAR TO APPROVE FOR 2024 PLUS RECOMMENDATIONS FOR OUR ANNUAL REPORT.

UH, THE CALENDAR THAT YOU HAVE, UH, IN FRONT OF YOU IS A ONE PAGE CALENDAR.

IT REFERENCES, UH, TARGETED INTAKE FILING DEADLINES AND PANEL HEARING DATES.

THIS WAS ADJUSTED FOR A SLIGHT TYPO.

THAT WAS IN FEBRUARY.

UM, SO DID WE GIVE THEM A HARD COPY CORRECTED VERSION TODAY? OKAY.

MS. LAMB, BRIEF, BRIEF QUESTION.

ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD.

UM, THIS CALENDAR SET UP, UH, IS SIMILAR TO THE CALENDAR FOR 2023.

UH, IN THAT, IT, UM, IS THE THIRD WEEK OF THE MONTH, TYPICALLY NOT ALWAYS.

AND IT GOES MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY.

UM, THIS ALL CALENDAR ALSO INCLUDES A FULL BOARD MEETING FOR OCTOBER 29TH, WHERE WE WILL GO THROUGH THIS SESSION AGAIN FOR TRAINING AS WELL AS THE CALENDAR ADOPTION FOR 2025.

THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE.

I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE 2324, UM, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CALENDAR.

IT'S BEEN MOVED TO APPROVE THE 2024 CALENDAR FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

IS THERE SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.

IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MS. LAMB DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.

I WOULD MAKE ONE OTHER COMMENT.

UH, WE WILL COME BACK TO YOU ALL VIA THE PANELS, UH, MR. AGNES VICE CHAIR, AGNES, VICE CHAIR, GABO AND I, AFTER WE HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH MR. POOLE ABOUT HOW DO WE, UH, ADJUST THE CALENDAR IN ORDER TO GET HIT THAT 60 DAY MARK FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER APPLICANT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT, HOW, WHEN, BUT WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU.

IT WON'T BE A CHANGE THAT WE MAKE A REQUEST TO MAKE IT EFFECTIVE IN THE NEXT WEEK.

IT WILL BE A CHANGE THAT GETS IMPLEMENTED OVER TIME.

UM, I JUST WANNA REITERATE OUR COMMITMENT AS OFFICERS TO TRY TO GET, HELP THE STAFF GET TO THAT 60 DAY TARGET.

SO, UH, WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT CALENDAR WILL CHANGE OR NOT, BUT WE WILL COME BACK TO YOU AND GIVE YOU FEEDBACK AS, AS WE DEVELOP THAT DISCUSSION.

AT WHAT POINT DOES STAFF AND THE CHAIR DETERMINE IF A HEARING IS CANCELED LA DUE TO LACK OF CASES? UH, YOU KNOW, AS, AS YOUR CHAIRMAN, I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE I USE YOUR TIME WISELY.

I DON'T WANNA PULL A PANEL TOGETHER FOR THREE CASES.

SEE, I DON'T, I EVEN HESITATE PULLING A PANEL TOGETHER FOR FOUR CASES, UH, BECAUSE IT TAKES THE MORNING INTO THE AFTERNOON AND IT TAKES OUT THE MIDDLE OF YOUR DAY.

SO IT'S A FUNCTION OF WHEN THE CUTOFF IS THAT THE STAFF HAS AND HOW MANY ACCEPTED CASES THEY HAVE FOR THAT, THAT NEXT MONTH'S TIME PERIOD.

NOW, IN NOVEMBER, ALL THREE PANELS ARE MEETING AND WE'VE GOT, GOSH, 18 CASES, MR. MR. AGNES'S PANEL GOT HELD OVER 'CAUSE IT CANCELED 'CAUSE IT COULDN'T GET THE ATTENDANCE.

BUT IT'S 18 CASES IN DECEMBER.

WE HAVE 12 CASES.

SO THEY'RE ONLY, YOU DON'T HAVE 18 CASES.

NO, YOU DON'T, NOT YOU.

BUT, BUT IN TOTAL, IN DECEMBER WE HAVE 12 CASES AND ONLY TWO PANELS A MEETING.

SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, MS. LAMB, IT'S ALL A FUNCTION OF AT THE TIME THAT THE, THE CASES ARE INTO STAFF IS ACCEPTED, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU PULL TOGETHER AND MAKE USE OF THE STAFF'S TIME TO PREPARE AS WELL AS YOUR TIME.

IF, IF I MAY, I PREFER EVEN IF WE ONLY HAD FOUR CASES STILL MEET RATHER THAN TO, TO CRUNCH EIGHT OR 10 WHERE WE'RE STAYING TILL EIGHT AND NINE O'CLOCK.

NO, WE, I WOULD NEVER SET UP WHERE ANY PANEL IS.

EIGHT.

SURE.

NO, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

BUT I MEAN, I, I'VE SIGNED ON, I KNOW, AS YOU KNOW, UH, WHEN I GOT SWORN IN TO, TO HEAR CASES AND TO REPRESENT THE CITY AND HERE IN TAXPAYERS AND THEY WANT A TIMELY I AGREE.

SO I HAVE NO ISSUE PERSONALLY, UM, TO MEET ON A MONTHLY BASIS.

I TOTALLY AGREE.

REGARDLESS OF IT'S ONE CASE OR NO, I WOULDN'T DO ONE CASE HERE THAT THAT'S EVERYONE'S TIME FRACTURED DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.

THE MOTION BY VICE CHAIR GABO WAS TO APPROVE THE 24 CALENDAR.

IT WAS SECONDED BY MS. LAMB.

ALL IN.

YES, MR. SINGTON.

UH, JUST, JUST FOR CLARITY, UM, PLEASE, THE, SO THE,

[06:20:01]

THE FREQUENCY OF PANELS, UM, MEETING IS MONTHLY NOW VERSUS PREVIOUS YEARS WHERE THERE WAS A MONTH OFF.

UM, ARE WE GOING AWAY FROM THAT? UH, AND WILL SOME PANELS, UH, MEET OR HAVE HEARINGS MORE, MORE FREQUENT BASED ON A ROTATING CALENDAR? UM, THE, THE, UH, YOUR QUESTION IS, IS, IS ACCURATE.

UH, IN 22, WE DID NOT MEET AS A BOARD IN JULY, AND I THINK IT WAS IN 22.

MAYBE IT WAS IN, IT WAS IN 22.

WE DID NOT MEET IN JULY AND ONLY ONE PANEL IN DECEMBER AND ONLY ONE PANEL IN JANUARY.

AND SO IN 23 WE PUT TWO PANELS IN PLACE AND WE HAD ENOUGH CASES FOR TWO AND PUT TWO IN DECEMBER.

SO WE PUT PANELS BACK INTO DECEMBER INTO JULY WHERE WE PREVIOUSLY DID NOT MEET.

AND THEN, UH, OUR MEETING THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, EXCEPT WHEN WE DID NOT FEEL LIKE THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH CASELOADS FOR THREE PANELS, THAT'S WHY YOU SEE IN DECEMBER, THERE'S ONLY TWO.

IN JANUARY THERE'S ONLY TWO.

AND IN JULY THERE'S ONLY TWO.

IF I MAY, IN JUNE, YES, MS. LAMB.

UM, I DID NOTICE THAT IN, UM, APRIL AND MAY, THERE'S ONLY TWO PANELS MEETING.

NO, APRIL HAS THREE.

IT SAYS PANEL ORDERS CA, MAY, HAS THREE CAB.

IT SAYS, WHY AM I, AM I SEEING IS JUNE I BECAUSE HERE NO, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT HERE.

APRIL.

NO, YOU SAID APRIL.

THE HEARING DATES SAYS, OH, SORRY, JU I SEE JUNE AND JULY THEN ONLY HAVE CORRECT TWO PANELS.

AND WE HAD THE, ALSO THE DISCUSSION YOUR OFFICERS ABOUT, WELL, SHOULD WE SCHEDULE EVERYTHING OUT AND CANCEL IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PANELS OR CASES, OR SHOULD WE REDUCE IT? MAYBE JUST ONLY MAKE IT TWO PANELS A MONTH AND NOT CANCEL.

AND THE CONSENSUS AS WELL AS THE STA INE IS IT'S BETTER TO SCHEDULE AND PULL BACK RATHER THAN ALL OF A SUDDEN ADD.

THAT WAS THE CONSENSUS.

SO, AND I'M SEEING HEADS NOD.

SO THAT'S WHY THIS PAN, THIS IS SET UP THIS WAY.

HEARING NO OTHER DISCUSSION.

ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

THOSE OPPOSED? UH, MOTION CARRIES 17 TO ZERO.

UH, NEXT ITEM ON YOUR AGENDA, UH, IS THREE COMPONENTS.

TWO, OUR ANNUAL REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

UH, SECTION EIGHT OF THE CODE WAS UPDATED A COUPLE YEARS AGO THAT REQUIRES ALL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS TO SUBMIT AN ANNUAL REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL BY FEBRUARY 1ST OF EACH YEAR.

AND SO THIS IS A COPY OF THE ANNUAL REPORT THAT WAS CREATED LAST YEAR.

AND I WROTE A, A COVER MEMO JUST SAYING, THIS IS WHAT WE DID AND SO FORTH.

AND SO WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU NOW ARE THREE COMPONENTS TO THIS ANNUAL REPORT.

THIS IS LAST YEAR'S ANNUAL REPORT.

YOU DON'T HAVE THIS ONE.

UM, THIS IS ON OUR WEBSITE.

IS WHAT, WHAT THIS IS.

SO WHAT I'M ASKING, SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING THE BOARD TO DO IS LOOK AT OUR PROGRESS REPORT FROM 2223 GOALS AND OBJECTIVE.

THAT'S PAGE 180 4 AND 180 5.

UH, THAT BASICALLY TAKES OUR EIGHT GOALS THAT WE SET OUT LAST YEAR AND GIVES A GOAL AND A RESULT AND A GOAL AND A RESULT AND A GOAL AND A RESULT.

UM, WE PROVIDED THIS TO THE FULL BOARD IN ADVANCE.

I'M REALLY NOT GONNA WANT TO GO THROUGH, SINCE I'M NOW THREE MINUTES LATE, I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH, UH, AND GO IN EACH ONE.

THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT BY YOUR OFFICERS TO GIVE AN HONEST ASSESSMENT OF WHERE WE'RE AT VERSUS WHERE WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE IN EACH ONE OF OUR GOALS.

UM, AGAIN, THIS IS FOR THE TIME PERIOD OF OCTOBER 1ST, 2022 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30TH, 2023.

SO THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADOPT THE PROGRESS REPORT FOR 2020 2 23 TO BE INCLUDED IN THE TO BE PUBLISHED ANNUAL REPORT.

I MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE PROGRESS REPORT FROM 2223 TO BE INCLUDED IN THE 20 IN THE ANNUAL REPORT.

MS. GABO, VICE CHAIR GA HAS MOVED TO APPROVE.

IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND I IS THAT, OH, THANK YOU MR. FINNEY.

IT'S BEEN MOVED.

AND SECOND, A DISCUSSION.

UH, UH, YES.

YES, MR. SINGTON, UM, CHAIR, UH, NEWMAN.

I, I'D JUST LIKE TO, UH, ASK THAT IN THE FUTURE, UM, IF WE'RE NOT ALREADY DOING IT, IF WE COULD GATHER, UM, COMMENTARY FROM THE ENTIRETY OF THE BODY ON THE ASSESSMENT OF THE, OF THE, UH, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS.

TOTALLY GET YOU, UH, THAT'S WHY THIS WAS SENT OUT A WEEK AGO SO THAT EVERYONE COULD LOOK AT IT AND, AND GIVE FEEDBACK.

DID IT REQUEST FEEDBACK? ABSOLUTELY.

I DON'T THE WHOLE AGENDA REQUEST FEEDBACK.

OH, ON THE AGENDA.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN UNDERSTOOD WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE REPORT, I MEAN, NOT JUST SENDING OUT IN GENERAL EMAIL, BUT IT, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE, I THINK IT IS EXPEDIENT FOR THE BODY TO, UH, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY UNDERSTOOD TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK.

SO ABOUT ON THE REPORT ITSELF.

[06:25:01]

UNDERSTOOD.

THANK YOU MR. SINGTON DISCUSSION AND THE MOTION HEARING.

NO DISCUSSION.

ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

THOSE OPPOSED THOSE, UH, I WAS ABOUT TO SAY ABSTENTIONS.

WE NOW DON'T HAVE THAT.

SO IT IS APPROVED AS PRESENTED.

UH, THE LAST COMPONENT, UH, IS ON PAGE 180 6 AND IT IS THE PROPOSED 2020 3 24 GOALS.

WOULD YOU PUT THAT UP IF YOU COULD, JASON? SO, UH, MR. AGNES, MS. GABO AND I CAME UP WITH AND ARE RECOMMENDING FIVE GOALS THIS YEAR, NOT EIGHT AS LAST YEAR, AND TWO RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO SHE'S, HE'S GONNA PULL THAT UP.

AND I'M NOT GONNA READ EVERY LINE, BUT I'M GONNA HIGHLIGHT EACH COMPONENT.

THE ONE IS THE, OUR PHILOSOPHICAL STATEMENT, AND THAT IS FAIRNESS, TIMELINESS, ACCURACY, AND TRANSPARENCY.

WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERY APPLICANT THAT COMES BEFORE THE BOARD IS TREATED FAIRLY WITH TRANSPARENCY, TIMELINESS, AND ACCURACY.

NUMBER TWO, THAT 60 DAY GOAL OF APPLICATION TO HEARING, THAT'S OUR NUMBER TWO GOAL, TO WORK WITH THE STAFF TO ACHIEVE THAT.

NUMBER THREE, A MORE COMPREHENSIVE AND TECHNICAL ANALYSIS.

WE WANNA LEAN HARD INTO THE STAFF TO SAY, GIVE US THE TECHNICAL COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT, ON THAT PROPERTY AS WELL AS THE SURROUNDING AREA THAT IS CRITICAL FOR US TO GET THAT TECHNICAL ANALYSIS.

NUMBER FOUR, WEBSITE IMPROVEMENTS.

THIS CASE FILE THAT MR. POOLE IS TALKING ABOUT, GET IT ACTIVATED SO THAT PEOPLE CAN USE THE SIGN AND THE QR CODE IN ORDER TO GO AND GET THE SPECIFIC INFORMATION ON THE PROPERTY INVOLVED AND MAKE THE WEBSITE THE TRUE FRONT DOOR FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

AND NUMBER FIVE, QUARTERLY ENHANCED TRAINING SO THAT MEMBERS ALTERNATES GET REGULARLY RE REFURBISHED AND RE AND RE-UPPED ON ALL THINGS THAT IT RELATES TO OUR ROLE.

UH, THE, THE CITY COUNCIL ALSO REQUIRES EACH BOARD AND COMMISSION TO GIVE RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND OUR TWO PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, NUMBER ONE, TO REQUEST THE CITY COUNCILS TO ENSURE CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OVERSIGHT.

AND THAT, IN OTHER WORDS, PLEASE KEEP AN EYE ON MR. POOL AND MR. ESPINOZA TO MAKE SURE FOR WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

THAT'S NOT A THREAT, THAT'S A POSITIVE THING.

WE WANT THE, THE CITY COUNCIL TO BE FUNDING THEM TO BE ENCOURAGING THEM TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE THAT THEY EXPECT AND THEY SAY THEY'RE GONNA DO.

AND THE NUMBER TWO IS THE FUNDING AND TRAINING OF SUFFICIENT STAFF IN ORDER TO MEET THE MISSION OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARINGS.

SO WE SCROLL BACK UP TO THE TOP PLEASE.

SO THESE ARE FIVE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES THAT HOPEFULLY WILL BE MEASURED THIS TIME LAST YEAR.

AND TWO RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL IF ADOPTED BY THE, THE BOARD, THEY'LL BE PART OF THIS ANNUAL REPORT COMPONENT, WHICH WILL GO THROUGH ALL OUR STATISTICS THAT'LL BE GIVEN TO THE CITY COUNCIL AT, AT BY THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY.

THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE.

I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

MS. HAYDEN MOVES TO APPROVE.

IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.

SECOND AMENDMENT.

MR. SAUK DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.

THE MOTION IS TO ADOPT OUR 2020 3 24 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL CHAIR NEWMAN? YES, PLEASE.

I WOULD JUST, UM, REFER BACK TO MY PREVIOUS COMMENT, UM, ON THE PREVIOUS MOTION, UM, AS A COLLECTIVE BODY.

IT, I BELIEVE IT IS BENEFICIAL TO THE WHOLE OF THE BODY AND TO THE CITIZENS OF THE, OF THE CITY TO WORK IN A COLLABORATIVE WAY TO COME UP WITH THESE OBJECTIVES AND GOALS AND, UM, PRESENT THEM TO THE BOARD.

I THINK, UH, THE FEEDBACK FROM EACH OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS BODY IS, UM, NECESSARY TO THAT, TO THAT GOAL.

AND, UH, I'D APPRECIATE THAT BEING PART OF, UM, THE EFFORTS, UH, GOING FORWARD.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

YOUR FEEDBACK, WHETHER IT'S DIRECTLY TO MYSELF AS YOUR CHAIRMAN OR YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER IN YOUR PANEL, SHOULD BE CONSTANT.

AND I ENCOURAGE EACH ONE OF YOU AT EACH ONE OF YOUR PANEL HEARINGS TO GIVE THAT FEEDBACK TO YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER.

IT SHOULDN'T JUST OCCUR ONE DAY A YEAR, IT AT OUR ANNUAL MEETING.

IT SHOULD BE CONSTANT.

SO PLEASE GIVE THAT FEEDBACK CONSTANTLY.

YOU GIVE IT TO ME, I WRITE IT UP.

YEP.

I I WOULD AGAIN JUST REITERATE, I I THINK IT IS BENEFICIAL TO THE WHOLE OF THE BODY THAT WE WORK COLLABORATIVELY ABSOLUTELY.

MY PEN.

THE REST OF YOU GUYS ARE ON.

[06:30:01]

COME UP WITH GOALS AND, AND STRATEGY AND, UH, A WAY FORWARD COLLECTIVELY.

I I MEAN, I, YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? YEP.