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[Landmark Commission Meeting on December 4, 2023]
I'M CALLING THIS MEETING OF THE DALLAS LANDMARK COMMISSION TO ORDER.IT IS DECEMBER 4TH, 2020 3, 1 0 6 IN THE AFTERNOON.
UH, I'M EVELYN MONTGOMERY, THE CHAIR OF THE LANDMARK COMMISSION.
OUR CO-CHAIR IS COURTNEY SP, AND WE DO HAVE A QUORUM OF COMMISSIONERS HERE PRESENT TODAY.
SO WE'LL BEGIN WITH VERIFYING WHO'S HERE PRESENT BY HAVING ELAINE DO A ROLL CALL.
DISTRICT 11 IS NOT IN ATTENDANCE TODAY.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON PRESENT.
PRESENT AND CPC LIAISON JOANNA HAMPTON.
WE CAN GET STARTED WITH, UM, WELL FIRST ARE THERE ANY PUBLIC SPEAKERS ON OUR MINUTES OR A NON CA THING? USUALLY THERE IS NO ONE.
UM, SO OUR VICE CHAIR, I BELIEVE HAS A COUPLE OF MOTIONS TO MAKE.
FIRST I'M GONNA GO OVER THE LIST OF SPEAKERS THAT I HAVE, UH, SIGNED UP CURRENTLY IN PERSON STEPHANIE BARING, LEAH KAGAN, CHARLES RALPH, LIZ GIBSON, ADAM LARSSON, JAY KUSKI, OSCAR VARGAS, ALI HAFI, UM, ADON FREES.
AND THAT'S, UH, LARRY JOHNSON.
IF YOU ARE PRESENT AND YOUR NAME WAS NOT CALLED, WE NEED YOU TO FILL OUT A SPEAKER FORM.
UM, OTHERWISE YOU'RE NOT ON THE LIST.
OH, AND WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS. IF YOU'RE, IF YOU NEEDED TO TELL US SOMETHING THAT'S NOT INCLUDED IN THE INFORMATION SUBMITTED TO US, THEN LET US KNOW.
OTHERWISE, IF YOU WERE JUST HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, WE USUALLY MOVE FORWARD ON THE CONSENT ITEMS, ITEMS ZONE, CONSENT AGENDA, ITEMS AS A GROUP RATHER THAN INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS.
SO NO ONE SEEMS TO BE JUMPING UP AND DOWN IF THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.
YES, THEY'RE, UH, WE, I HAVE THEM ON THE LIST AND THEY'RE AT HOME.
SO, UM, FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS, THEN MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR.
SECOND, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON ANY OF THIS? ALL RIGHT, THEN WE'LL GO TO THE VOTE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, THAT IS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
IF YOU WERE HERE BECAUSE YOU HAD AN ITEM ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, WE HAVE APPROVED THE, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ON IT AND I HOPE YOU ARE PLEASED WITH YOUR OUTCOME.
NOW TO THE ORDERING OF, IN WHICH WE WILL HEAR, I MOVE TO, UH, ARRANGE THE AGENDA AS THE FOLLOWING.
WE'LL START WITH DISCUSSION ITEM FIVE, FOLLOWED BY COURTESY REVIEW TWO, THEN COURTESY REVIEW ONE, THEN DISCUSSION ITEMS 1, 2, 4, AND THREE.
OKAY, DO WE HAVE A SECOND ON THAT MOTION? SECOND IS THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN? THANK YOU.
UM, ALL IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT, THAT IT IS TIME FOR US TO START WITH D FIVE, WHICH STAFF WILL READ IN.
THEN WE'LL HEAR TASK FORCE AND THEN WE WILL HEAR FROM OUR, OUR REGISTERED SPEAKERS, UM, CO COMMISSIONER, UM, MONTGOMERY.
WILL WE DO THE MINUTES NOW OR THE END? WE'VE BEEN DOING 'EM AFTER.
'CAUSE IT'S BORING FOR THE AUDIENCE FOR US TOO, BUT, OKAY.
RHONDA DUNN SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF STAFF PRESENTING DISCUSSION ITEM D FIVE.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 100 NORTH
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MOORE STREET IN THE 10TH STREET NEIGHBORHOOD HISTORIC DISTRICT.THE CASE NUMBER IS CA 2 34 DASH NINE FOUR RD.
THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO RECONSTRUCT 10TH STREET BETWEEN INTERSTATE 35 EAST AND EAST CLAREDON DRIVE.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO RECONSTRUCT 10TH STREET BETWEEN INTERSTATE 35 EAST AND EAST CLARITIN DRIVE BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 11 20 20 23 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT SIDEWALKS, DRIVEWAY APPROACHES AND THE ENGINEERED RETAINING WALL BE A BRUSH FINISH CONCRETE.
AND THAT APPLICANT'S RESPONSE TO THE ARCHEOLOGY COMMENTS OF THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION THC, DATED 11 20 23, 11 20 20 23 INCLUDED IN THE APPLICATION BE APPROVED BY THC PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT OF WORK, IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION.
SECTION 1.3 PERTAINING TO SITE AND SITE ELEMENTS.
SECTION SIX OF ORDINANCE 2 1 8 5 0 AND THE ANTIQUITIES CODE OF TEXAS TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, TASK FORCE, UH, RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A FEW SPEAKERS SIGNED UP.
UM, OUR FIRST SPEAKER, OH, THERE'S ONLY ONE.
I THOUGHT YOU SAID THERE WAS ANOTHER I.
SO FIRST, THE FIRST TO SIGN UP WAS, UM, UH, AL ZA
WE'VE MET BEFORE, CANNOT HEAR.
UM, JUST TESS, CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME NOW? WONDERFUL.
NOW, NOW YOU'RE THREE MINUTES.
UH, WELL THE THING IS THAT, FIRST OF ALL, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE TASK FORCE FOR APPROVING THIS ITEM.
UH, THIS IS VERY EXCITING NEWS FOR US.
I KNOW THAT THE COMMUNITY NEEDS, UH, THE QUALITY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THEY NEED.
UH, AND WE ARE EXCITED TO START THIS, UH, PROJECT ONCE WE RECEIVE THE CERTIFICATE OF PREPAREDNESS.
I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION THAT YOU MAY HAVE, UH, ON THIS PROJECT.
UH, RATHER THAN THAT, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ACTUALLY ADD TO IT.
UM, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, I DO HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION JUST TO SATISFY MY CURIOSITY.
HAS ANYBODY ON THE ENGINEERING TEAM OR IN PUBLIC WORKS WALKED THE TOP OF THE HILL ON THE CEMETERY SIDE TO SEE THE EVIDENCE OF WHAT THE CONCERN IS FROM THE TOP DOWN? 'CAUSE WHAT WE SEE, UM, FOR THE CASE REPORT IS NOTHING MORE THAN WHAT'S TAKING PLACE ON THE GROUND LEVEL ON THE PROJECTS.
SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, MA'AM.
WELL, THE ENGINEERING PLAN, THE ONE THAT WE HAVE IS FOR THE ROADWAY DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION.
RIGHT? THAT'S WHY YOU'RE JUST SEEING WHATEVER IT IS ON THE GROUND.
HOWEVER, UH, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF THIS PROJECT, BUT WE DID, UH, HAVE THIS ARCHEOLOGY SURVEY.
SO THE SURVEY, THE CONSULTANT THAT WE HAD, THE SURVEYED IS SLOW TO MAKE SURE, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT THEY NEED.
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UH, I'M ASSUMING AS A PART OF THE, UH, SURVEY THEY HAVE DONE BOTTOM, TOP OR WHATEVER THAT'S NEEDED, UH, TOWARD THIS PROJECT ITSELF.IT'S JUST THE ARCHEOLOGICAL PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN THERE.
NOBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WORKS OR THE ROADWAY PROJECT ITSELF? NO, THE ENGINEERING ACTUALLY, THEY HAVE DESIGNED THE RETAINING WALL.
ONCE YOU DESIGN THE RETAINING WALL, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEYOND THAT AND IF THE RETAINING WALL IS BEING PROTECT, UH, IS PROTECTING THE SLOPE OR NOT.
YES, THEY HAVE LOOKED AT THAT FOR SURE, BECAUSE IT WOULD GIVE ME COMFORT TO KNOW, 'CAUSE I'VE BEEN UP AND, UM, BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE CEMETERY.
SO I'VE WITNESSED SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES SOME OF THE DESECRATION THAT'S TAKEN PLACE UP THERE FROM THE PREVIOUS PROJECT THAT WENT THROUGH.
SO THAT, THAT'S WHAT'S DRIVEN A LOT OF THIS CONCERN.
UM, AND SO I'M GLAD TO KNOW THAT SOMEONE OTHER THAN JUST THE ARCHEOLOGISTS WHO HAVE BEEN UP THERE AND KNOW FOR THEMSELVES WHAT'S THERE.
'CAUSE IT'S NOT JUST SOMEBODY'S IMAGINATION.
SO YEAH, THE RETAINING WALL IS BEING DESIGNED BY THIS, UH, BY THE PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS SIGN AND SEAL SO THAT THERE'S A LIABILITY FOR, UM, ANY FAILURE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO I, I'M VERY CONFIDENT ON THE DESIGN.
YEAH, I KNOW THIS WILL SHOCK EVERYBODY WHO'S BEEN ATTENDING MEETINGS LED BY ME.
I JUMPED AHEAD BEFORE WE STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS.
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HEAR FROM THE OTHER SPEAKER, WHICH IS LARRY JOHNSON.
SO
SO LARRY AND I DO KNOW MR. JOHNSON.
I DON'T JUST CALL STRANGERS BY THEIR FIRST NAME.
I, THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE.
WHOEVER YOU ARE, PLEASE BEGIN WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS,
AND YES, I PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
OKAY, GO AHEAD WITH YOUR THREE MINUTES.
SO, UM, WE HAVE SOME, AS YOU ALL WELL KNOW, WE HAVE SOME MEMBERS IN 10TH STREET THAT ARE ELDERLY AND ARE NOT ABLE TO MAKE IT TO THESE MEETINGS, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR PHONE TECHNOLOGY TO BE ABLE TO DIAL IN.
AND SO, UM, I WAS ASKED TO COME AND SPEAK.
UM, MADAM CHAIR, THERE'S NO SOUND MIC'S OFF AGAIN.
ALL CAN YOU ALL HEAR US AT HOME NOW? NOW WE CAN.
IT'S THE SYSTEM THAT KEEPS DOING THAT AND ADRIAN HAS TO KEEP AN EYE ON IT, SO SHE'LL, SHE'LL WATCH.
MR. JOHNSON WAS JUST DISCUSSING, UM, SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE PROPOSAL.
SO WHAT I WAS SAYING WAS, UH, SOME OF THE CONCERNS, OR ONE OF THE MAJOR CONCERNS OF, UH, SOME OF THE ELDERLY PEOPLE IN 10TH STREET IS THAT REDOING 10TH STREET, IT PERPETUATES A BROKEN SYSTEM.
BACK IN 1946 WHEN 10TH STREET WAS PUT IN, IT WAS PUT IN AS JUST SIMPLY, UH, A BYPASS AS JUST SIMPLY A MAIN THOROUGHFARE, UM, FOR, FOR WHITE PEOPLE TO JUST COME THROUGH 10TH STREET.
AND SO, UM, UM, TRUCK TRAFFIC AND THINGS OF THIS NATURE, UH, ROLL THROUGH 10TH STREET, UM, APPARENTLY BECAUSE, UH, THE WHITE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT IT TO COME THROUGH THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, SO THEY JUST SAID, WELL, LET'S PUT THROUGH 10TH STREET.
AND SO, UM, REDOING 10TH STREET IS SIMPLY PERPETUATING A BROKEN SYSTEM.
BUT WHAT WAS PUT FORTH WAS, UM, UH, CAPPING OFF 10TH STREET, UM, AND PUTTING BACK THE HILLSIDE, UH, TO MAKE 10TH STREET WHOLE AGAIN, WHICH WAS ONCE UPON A TIME WHAT 10TH STREET WAS.
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AND SO, UM, THAT, UH, LIKE I SAID, THIS, THIS PROJECT HERE, UM, I'M THANKFUL TO THE ENGINEERS FOR THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.UM, THEY'VE COME THROUGH TASK WITH SEVERAL TIMES, KNOW THAT THEY CARE, BUT THERE ARE STILL SOME CONCERNS, UM, FROM THE COMMUNITY REGARDING, UH, THE HISTORY OF 10TH STREET ITSELF.
AND BEFORE MY THREE MINUTES IS UP, UM, UH, I, I KNOW RIGHT NOW, UM, IN THIS COUNTRY, UH, THERE'S, WE'RE HAVING RACE ISSUES, RIGHT? WE'RE HAVING ISSUES WITH REGARD TO RACE AND SOCIAL ISSUES.
UM, AND I KNOW THAT MAKES YOU ALL'S JOB REALLY, REALLY TOUGH BECAUSE 10TH STREET IS REALLY FRAGILE RIGHT NOW.
UM, UH, IT PUTS YOU GUYS IN A REALLY AWKWARD POSITION.
BUT, UH, LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT, UM, IF, IF, IF IN THE COURSE OF YOU ALL'S JOB, IN THE COURSE OF YOU DO DOING DUE DILIGENCE, UM, IF YOU ALL ARE TRYING TO DO RIGHT BY 10TH STREET AND SOMEONE ATTEMPTS TO ACCUSE YOU OF BEING RACIST, THE COMMUNITY WILL STAND BEHIND YOU.
UH, WE'RE NOT GONNA LET YOU BLOW ON THE WIND BECAUSE, UH, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN OUR PARTNERS FOR YEARS.
WE APPRECIATE THE HELP THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM YOU ALL, AND WE ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW HARD YOUR JOB IS.
UM, UH, WHAT ARE YOU THINK THE NEIGHBORS THAT YOU SPEAK UP WHO FEEL THAT, UM, THE LINGERING INJURY DONE IN THE PAST WHEN ALWAYS THINGS THAT PEOPLE WITH MORE CHOICE DIDN'T WANT IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS, WENT TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH SAY SO, OR VOTING RIGHTS OR MONEY.
WHAT WOULD THESE PEOPLE WANT TO SEE HAPPEN ABOUT THIS NECESSITY TO REDO THIS ROAD? APPARENTLY THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND ROADS SAY IT HAS TO BE REDONE.
I GUESS I CAN'T ARGUE WITH THEM ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A GOOD ROAD OR NOT.
ARE YOU REALLY SAYING Y'ALL WANT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT IT CAPPED OFF, THEY WANT IT MADE A LIST SO THAT PEOPLE CAN'T IT HAVE THROUGH TRAFFIC? OR HAS IT BECOME USEFUL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN WHICH IT'S IN? WELL, THERE, THERE ARE THOSE WHO, WHO WANT THE PROJECT TO GO ON, RIGHT? BUT THEN THERE ARE ALSO THOSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, WHO, WHO WANT 10TH STREET CAP SO THAT IT, IT, IT DECREASES THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC, ESPECIALLY THE, ESPECIALLY THE TRUCK TRAFFIC.
UM, THE LARGE VEHICLE TRAFFIC THAT COMES UP AND DOWN 10TH STREET.
AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO DON'T WANT, UM, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD TO JUST BE A THOROUGHFARE TO GET FROM ONE SIDE OF DALLAS TO THE OTHER.
WOULD YOU POSSIBLY, MIGHT YOU AND THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE HERE SPEAKING FOR, SEE THAT IS A SEPARATE ISSUE.
WE COULD FIX THE EXISTING ROAD AND THEN DISCUSS THE IDEA OF, ESSENTIALLY IT'S A SMALL, A SHORT STREET CLOSURE, WHICH FOR WHICH THERE IS A SEPARATE PROCESS WITHIN THE CITY.
AND IT'S NOT AN EASY PROCESS, BUT IT DOES EXIST.
UH, UH, I DID BRING THAT UP AND YES, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN THAT BECAUSE THAT SEEMS SORT OF MORE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT IN OUR PURVIEW TO SAY CLOSED STREETS.
WE, WE'D LOVE TO TELL THE CITY EVERYTHING THEY SHOULD DO, BUT THEY'VE NEVER ACCEPTED THAT.
SO WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
LET, I'LL LET EVERYBODY ELSE NOW ASK QUESTIONS OF EITHER APPLICANT WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS.
BUT I UNDERSTAND THE DI BE THE DESIRE TO REMEDIATE PAST HARMS THAT WERE DONE THOUGHTLESSLY, OR EVEN WITH MAL, MAL THOUGHT IN THE MINDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO DID IT.
BUT USUALLY JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW ANY, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE JUST NARROW-MINDED.
BUT, BUT WHAT HAS EVOLVED NOW MIGHT STILL BE ABUSE TO PEOPLE.
I BET YOU DRIVE DOWN 10TH STREET OUT BOTH ENDS, RIGHT? NOT OFTEN.
WELL, I'VE MET SOME PEOPLE DO.
EVEN EVEN FORMER COMMISSIONER ROBERT SWAN ADMITTED HE USED IT ALL TIMES
SO HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. JOHNSON.
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE RETAINING WALL AND THE DESIGN OF THE RETAINING WALL? I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE DESIGN OF THE RETAINING WALL.
UM, THE ONLY THING THAT WE'RE ASKING IS THAT AS IT RELATES TO THE ARTWORK, UM, THAT, UH, WE ASKED TO BE PUT ON THE WALL, THAT THE COMMUNITY HAVE A SAY SO IN THE ARTIST THAT, UM, THE ARTIST AND THE ARCHITECTURE THAT GOES ON THIS WALL, I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS WITH HOW IT'S GONNA BE CONSTRUCTED BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, UM, DRIVE PIERS AND YOU ALSO CANNOT GO INTO THE CEMETERY.
SO THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS WITH HOW, UM, EXACTLY THE WALL IS GONNA STAY UP.
BUT WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE COME UP WITH A, A SOLUTION FOR THAT.
AND WE'RE JUST WORKING SOME THINGS OUT WITH THE, UM, ARTS AND CULTURE PEOPLE HERE IN DALLAS.
BUT WE DEFINITELY WANNA HAVE SAY SO ON THE ARTIST.
AND WE ARE DEFINITELY CONCERNED WITH HOW EXACTLY THE WALL IS GONNA STAY UP WITH NO PI AND, UH, GOING DOWN OR, UH, VERTICAL OR HORIZONTAL.
THAT WAS ACTUALLY MY QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT WAS, WAS GONNA BE THE CONSTRUCTION.
SO, ALRIGHT, MR. SHERMAN, UM, LARRY, YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL TRUCK DRIVER.
DO YOU HAVE AN APPRECIATION OR AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT TYPES OF ROADWAYS, THE BIG 18 WHEELERS AND NOT ALLOWED TO GO DOWN? IS THAT THE TYPE
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OF THOROUGHFARE YOU THINK THIS COULD BE ADJUSTED TO? THE THUMB? NO.UM, I WOULD NEVER
UM, THE STREETS JUST SIMPLY AREN'T WIDE ENOUGH AND THEY WERE NOT MADE TO, UH, HOLD THE WEIGHT OF AN 80,000 POUND GROSS RATE RATING VEHICLE.
AND SO, I MEAN, NOT, NOT TO MENTION THE PROSPECT OF A CHILD RUNNING OUT INTO THE STREET 'CAUSE WE HAVE CHILDREN AT PLAY.
UM, THE PROSPECT OF A CHILD RUNNING OUT INTO THE STREET OR AN ELDERLY PERSON, UM, PEOPLE, WE HAVE PEOPLE ON WHEELCHAIRS, PEOPLE WOULD HOVER AROUNDS.
SO, UH, I WOULD NOT PERSONALLY TAKE MY VEHICLE, UM, THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE 10TH STREET.
I MEAN, WE ARE TYPICALLY RELEGATED TO, UM, HIGHWAYS AND THOROUGH AFFAIRS THAT WERE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR VEHICLES OF OUR SIZE.
SO OUTSIDE OF A GARBAGE TRUCK, I WOULDN'T TAKE ANYTHING LARGER THROUGH 10TH STREET, NO.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF EITHER OF OUR SPEAKERS AND THEY CAN ALTERNATE THEM TO BE
MR. ANDERSON, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
FIRST OF ALL, HOW TALL AND HOW LONG IS THIS RETAINING WALL ABOUT HOW TALL AND HOW LONG? YEAH, THE LENGTH OF IT IS, UM, KIND OF ALONG THE SYMMETRY ITSELF, THE, THE WHOLE PROPER LINE, I DON'T KNOW THE FEET OF IT, 300 FEET IS THE, AND AT THE HIGHEST THE HEIGHT WOULD BE, IT VARIES, BUT I THINK MAXIMUM IT GETS TO 10 OR 13, 9, 9 FEET.
AND WHAT IS THE, WHAT COLOR OR FINISH WOULD BE ON THE WALL? THAT'S A CONCRETE FINISH BASICALLY.
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PAINT THAT A LITTLE LESS BRIGHT WHITE COLOR? I MEAN, PAINTING WILL BE AN OPTION.
UH, AS MR. JOHNSON MENTIONED THAT THEY ARE WORKING WITH THE OFFICE OF, UH, ART AND CULTURE, RIGHT.
TO MAYBE HAVE SOME SORT OF ART ON THE WALL ITSELF.
NOW WHAT I'M PROPOSING IS TO PAINT THE ENTIRE WALL A PARTICULAR SHADE OF TOE.
AND THE REASON BEING, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A TARGET FOR GRAFFITI AND WHEN WE GET THE MURAL IN WHEN, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, THAT SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THAT TO AN EXTENT.
BUT I KNOW IT'S REALLY HARD TO PAINT OVER GRAFFITI ON CONCRETE WHERE IF YOU HAD A CERTAIN TOE COLOR THAT YOU KEPT IN YOUR WAREHOUSE, SO WHEN THE GRAFFITI COMES, IT CAN GO AWAY WITHOUT MARING THE WALL WITH ALL KINDS OF COLORS THAT YOU SEE OFTENTIMES.
YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO THOSE OPTIONS, SIR.
MAY I ASK A QUESTION? ABSOLUTELY, MA'AM.
UM, I KNOW THERE ARE, UH, TYPES OF, UH, MATERIALS THAT YOU CAN USE ON CONCRETE AND BRICK THAT WILL, UM, MAKE IT HARDER TO PAINT GRAFFITI ON.
WOULD THAT, WOULD, IF YOU DID SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WOULD THAT MAKE IT HARDER THEN TO LATER ON COME BACK AND DO A MURAL? YEAH, I THINK THE, WHAT I CAN TELL AT THIS MOMENT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST THING THAT WE HAVE TO, UH, MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE RETAINING WALL IS VERY IMPORTANT TO PROTECT THE SLOPE, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE SLOPE IS FAILING, AS YOU ALL KNOW.
AND WE'RE DESIGNING THE WALL TO PROTECT THE SLOPE, WHETHER WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOMETHING ON THE TOP OF IT, ART OR A PAINTING OR WHATEVER OTHER MATERIAL, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO IT TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A TARGET FOR GRAFFITI LATER ON IN, UH, YOU KNOW, DURING THE DEVELOP DEVELOPMENT.
BUT, UH, AGAIN, AT THIS POINT WE ARE DESIGNING THE WALL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WALL, UH, PROTECT THE SLOPE OF THE SYMMETRY.
COMMISSIONER PREZI PREZI
WELL, THE THING IS THAT WHEN WE HAVE A, UH, WHERE WE HAVE A SYMMETRY, ACTUALLY WE ARE TRYING TO, UH, DO THE EXCAVATION COUPLE OF FEET AWAY FROM THE SLOPE OF THE WALL.
THE PIER THAT WE'RE DESIGNING FOR THE WALL IS AT THE TOE OF THE SLOPE THAT IS NOT ACTUALLY EXCAVATING ANYTHING BEYOND THAT.
AND I THINK, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? OH, OKAY.
I THINK I LOST THE MICROPHONE.
UH, I GOT EXCITED, I THINK I PUSHED
BUT, UH, THE WALL ITSELF IS ACTUALLY HANGING ON THE PIERS AND THEREFORE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S PROTECTING THE SLOPE FROM BEING IMPACTED BY CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY.
SO IN THAT SECTION OF THE ROAD, I THINK IT WAS PART OF THE DESIGN THAT WE HAD, WE ARE ACTUALLY N NARROWING THE, UH, WIDTH TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE SLOPE ITSELF.
SO WILL THE, UH, UH, FOUNDATION
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PI BE EXCAVATED RATHER THAN DRILLED OR POUNDED DOWN INTO THE, INTO THE GROUND? UH, THE, UM, I'M HEARING THAT THE PIER GONNA BE, UH, DRILLED, UH, IN THE GROUND.COMMISSIONER FOGLEMAN AND THE, THE WALL, THE WALL PANELS LOOK VERY THIN ON THE DRAWING.
AND UM, I JUST WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THE THICKNESS OF THOSE.
AND THEN ALSO, DO YOU HAVE DRAINAGE, UH, PLANNED FOR BEHIND THE RETAINING WALL? IS THERE A GRAVEL BACKFILL OR SOME WAY? YEAH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BACKFILL BEHIND THE WALL.
I MEAN, THE THICKNESS IS BASED ON THE DESIGN, WHATEVER THE DESIGN IS CALLED FOR IT, BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS BEING DESIGNED BY THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, RIGHT? SO WHATEVER THE THICKNESS THEY'RE PROPOSING, THAT'S A THICKNESS THAT WE'RE GONNA STAY WITH.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE RENDERING ACTUALLY SHOWS THE PERSPECTIVE OF IT, IT'S JUST A RENDERING.
BUT THE ACTUAL ENGINEERING PLAN PROBABLY HAS, UM, MAYBE THE CROSS SECTION OF THE WALL, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.
BUT REGARDLESS, I GUESS THE THICKNESS OF THE WALL IS, UH, BEING DICTATED BY THE DESIGN.
UM, FOR THE BACKFILL, YES, THE BEHIND THE WALL, THEY'RE GONNA BE BACKFILL, UM, TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE WALL ITSELF AND ALSO THE STORE.
AND I'M PRETTY SURE THEY HAVE LOOKED AT THE DRAINAGE IN THE DESIGN ALSO.
UH, COMMISSIONER RENE? YEAH, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THE, THE PROCESS OF THE CONSTRUCTION.
UM, UH, IF YOU COULD CONFIRM THE STAGING, UM, WOULD THAT HAPPEN ALL WITHIN THE RIGHT OF WAY? UH, THEN THE SPOILS THAT ARE BEING PULLED OUT FROM THE, THE RIGG RAILS THEMSELVES, THE DRINKING DRILLING RIGS THEMSELVES, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW IS THAT DISPOSED? AND, UM, WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS, HOW CAN YOU NOT BUT GO BEYOND THE, THE TOW OF THE EXISTING SLOPE? BECAUSE IF THE, THE, THE PIER DRILL INTO THE TOE OF THE, UH, SLOPE AND THE WALL IS HANGING ON THE TOP OF THE PIER, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ANY EXCAVATION OR ANYTHING BEYOND THAT POINT.
AND I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO DISCUSS THAT WITH OUR ENGINEERING TEAM AND THE CONSULTANT OFFLINE IF YOU WANNA ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
BUT YEAH, ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS DESIGN HAS TO BE BID FOR THE CONSTRUCTION, RIGHT? WHEN A CONTRACTOR IS BEING SELECTED, THEN THE CONTRACTOR IS ACTUALLY PROPOSING THE STAGING, THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE, OR SEQUENCES OF THE, UM, CONSTRUCTION AND ALL THESE THINGS.
AT THIS POINT, WE DON'T HAVE, WE MAY NOT HAVE THOSE DATA BECAUSE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO ACTUALLY GET THE GREEN TAG TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY FINISH THE DESIGN AND THEN GO FOR CONSTRUCTION.
BUT AGAIN, OUR CER OUR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS, THE CONSULTANT, EVERYONE, THE DESIGNING THE WAY THAT THERE IS NO NEED FOR EXCAVATION BEYOND THE POINTS OF THE PIER.
IT'S JUST THAT THE DRAWING DOESN'T SHOW THAT BECAUSE THE SLOPE IS ACTUALLY CUTTING THROUGH
AND DRAWING MAY NOT SHOW IT ACTUALLY BECAUSE THAT'S JUST A DRAWING, BUT YEAH.
I BELIEVE THAT COMMISSIONER TAYLOR HAS BEEN WAITING.
UM, I, I WANT TO COMMEND LARRY JOHNSON AND THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT FOR SHOWING UP.
I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN ENTIRELY SEPARATE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS AND TRYING TO COORDINATE IT AND MAKE SURE THAT BOTH SIDES ARE HEARD, UH, FOR THE OVERALL GOAL IS TO NOT HAVE A STREET THAT'S FAILING ON 10TH STREET AND TO BE SENSITIVE OF THE RESIDENTS THERE AND THE WORK THAT THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT HAS TO DO.
UM, I'VE LOOKED AT THE CROSS-SECTION, I'VE TALKED TO THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, I'VE TALKED TO RESIDENTS, UM, AND I, AND I HAVE LOOKED AT NO CONCERN ABOUT THE, HOW THAT WALL IS GOING BE HELD UP, THAT THAT PEER IS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF NOT THE HEEL SIDE, SO THAT THOSE PIERS AREN'T BEING DRILLED INTO THE CEMETERY SIDE, BUT THE STREET SIDE THAT WHERE THE WALL IS HANGING SO YOU'RE NOT DISTURBING THE EXISTING SLOPE TO FAIL FURTHER.
UM, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THAT CROSS SECTION THAT THEY'VE SHOWN BEFORE OR THEY HAVE, IT CAN FURTHER DETAIL THAT.
UM, AND THAT, THAT'S WHY I WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UM, ITEM NUMBER FIVE OF THE DISCUSSION TOPICS.
WE HAVE TO HOLD OFF ON MAKING A MOTION TO EVERYBODY HAVE THEIR QUESTION, BUT I'LL CALL ON YOU AFTER WE FINISH QUESTIONS.
MR. ANDERSON? YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, WHAT IS THE SPEED LIMIT ON THE 10TH STREET RIGHT NOW? IT'S 30 MILES PER HOUR.
OKAY, WELL I WISH, AND AND THEN IS IT, IT IS A TRUCK ROUTE THAT'S A TRUCK ROUTE? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? TRUCKS ARE
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ALLOWED TO DRIVE ON IT, I BELIEVE SO.I MEAN THIS IS, THIS IS THE STREET AS WELL.
THE NEIGHBORS MENTIONED THERE'S A LOT OF TRUCKS ON IT, SO TRUCKS DRIVE ON IT RIGHT NOW.
WELL, I DUNNO IF THEY'RE DRIVING RIGHT NOW OR NOT, BUT THAT'S A LOCAL KIND OF STREET.
IT'S NOT VERY DESIGNED FOR THE TRUCKS OR STUFF LIKE THAT.
UH, AS LIKE A MAJOR THOROUGH OFFER THAT WE HAVE.
UH, WE CAN MAYBE GET THAT INFORMATION.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE OR LET ME, MY CONCERN IS, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO MAKE IT A NONT TRUCK ROUTE? CERTAIN STREETS IN THE CITY HAVE A SENSE SAYING NO TRUCKS ALLOWED.
RIGHT? WE CAN ACTUALLY COORDINATE THAT WITH OUR TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT, UH, THAT THEY OVERSEE THE TRUCK ROUTES IN THE CITY.
UH, KEEP IN MIND WE ARE NOT ADDING OR THE WIDTH OR ANYTHING TO THE ROAD, RIGHT? WE JUST RECONSTRUCT THE ROAD THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW AND PROVIDING RETAINABLE AND ALL THESE THINGS INSIDE.
BUT I UNDERSTAND FROM THE NEIGHBORS THAT IT'S NOT THE THE NICEST ROAD TO LIVE BY.
NO, I, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND IT.
AND IF THE, IF THE SPEED LIMIT NEEDS TO BE REDUCED OR IF, IF THERE'S NO TRUCK ROUTE WOULD BE AN ANTICIPATED, I THINK THE NEIGHBORS WILL FEEL THEY'RE NOT STUCK WITH A HORRIBLE ROAD THAT THIS HORRIBLE ROAD MAYBE GETS A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
SO WE MIGHT CONSIDER YEAH, A NO TRUCK ROUTE AND MAYBE A SPEED LIMIT.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, I, I THINK THAT KIND OF HAS TO BE INITIATED FROM SOMEONE OTHER THAN US BECAUSE WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT.
BUT PUBLIC WORKS ARE NOW AWARE OF HOW THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE FEEL AND THEY WOULD KNOW HOW TO FOLLOW THAT UP AND INQUIRE ABOUT IT.
AND UM, OF COURSE WE'D HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE NEIGHBOR, IF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.
BUT THAT IS A GOOD IDEA TO JUST TRY TO TELL TRUCKS NOT TO GO ON THE STREET.
OF COURSE, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS, THE, IT WAS SAID THAT UH, IF SO HAPPENS THERE IS A DISTURBANCE INTO THE CEMETERY AREA THAT, UH, CONSTRUCTION WOULD BE HALTED AND STOPPED.
IS THERE LANGUAGE INTO THAT FROM THE CITY WHEN YOU'RE GETTING YOUR HIRING, YOUR CONTRACTOR? WILL THERE BE LANGUAGE INTO THAT? WHO WILL BE OVERSEEING THAT OTHER THAN THE CONTRACTOR HIMSELF? UM, PUBLIC WORKS, OH, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
PUBLIC WORKS IS MONITORING ALL THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PUBLIC PROJECT THAT IS RELATED TO PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, RIGHT? I MEAN, UH, CONTRACTOR IS BUILDING IT, BUT OUR TEAM ACTUALLY, THEY'RE INSPECTING THE PROJECT MANAGER, THE INSPECTION TEAM, THE PROGRAM MANAGERS, ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE, THEY'RE GONNA MONITOR THEIR CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY.
ALSO, I WANNA MENTION THAT I THINK IT WAS PART OF THE APPLICATION.
YOU PROBABLY HAVE SEEN IT THAT, UH, DURING THE CONSTRUCTION, WE ALSO HAVE TO PREPARE, UM, A MONITORING INSPECTION REPORT TO GIVE IT TO A THC AND THEY HAVE TO APPROVE IT ALSO.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER LEVEL OF GUARANTEE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS BEING MONITORED THAT'S ONGOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT JUST TO GET THE START OF IT, RIGHT, BUT THAT'S ONGOING.
AND THAT'S EVERY MONTH, EVERY TWO WEEKS, OR YOU WANT, I THINK IT'S, MAYBE IT'S MONTHLY, I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT'S DURING THE CONSTRUCTION ANYWAYS.
I DON'T KNOW THE FREQUENCY OF IT.
AND THEN AT THAT TIME, YOU'LL BE, UH, ASKING DURING THE INTERVIEW PROCESS OF THE, UH, GETTING THE CONTRACTOR, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO ASCERTAIN THE MEANS AND METHODS THAT THEY'LL BE GOING THROUGH TO, UH, WHEN THEY DO DRILL THE PIERS TO MAKE SURE THERE IS NOT A, A BUFFER OF DISTANCE THAT WILL GO IMPEDE INTO THE CEMETERY.
THE CONTRACTOR IS, I MEAN, 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW A DRAWING CAN BE PRETTY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE GET A CONTRACTOR ON BOARD AND THEY'LL SAY, WELL TYPICALLY WHEN THEY'LL DRILL THIS HOLE, YOU'RE, I'M STILL GONNA HAVE TO IMPEDE A COUPLE OF FEET, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH FOR WHATEVER REASONS MAY BE.
AND HOW WILL THAT GET RELATED INTO YOUR, I GUESS TO THE PUBLIC TO, TO A PORTION OF THAT? WELL, YEAH, WE DID GET APPROVALS BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE DOING THESE PEERS AND YOU CAN SEE BY OUR PICTURES THAT IT'S NOT GONNA IMPEDE.
BUT WHEN WE, WHEN YOU GO ON DOWN THE LINE AND YOU GO FORWARD AND YOU DO GET THE MEANS AND METHODS, UH, FROM IN, FROM THE CONTRACTOR, YES, INDEED, WE WILL IMPEDE BY SO MANY FEET.
IS THAT JUST SOMETHING YOU GUYS ARE GONNA BE TAKING CARE OF THE WHOLE TIME OR DOES IT GO BACK TO PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE THAT, THAT HAD, THAT HAPPENED AND THEN SO WE CAN, THERE MIGHT BE SOME SORT OF UNDERSTANDING AT THAT TIME BY THE PUBLIC? AGAIN, WHAT I CAN ACTUALLY ANSWER AT THIS POINT IS THAT AS A PART OF, UH, THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A, UH, INSPECTION REPORT, THE MONITORING INSPECTION REPORT, THAT IS PART OF IT.
THAT HOW ARE WE GONNA MONITOR, HOW ARE WE GONNA INSPECT WHAT, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO INSPECT? SO THAT SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THAT BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THC ALSO.
BUT AGAIN, FOR US AS A PUBLIC WORKS, EVEN IF THC IS, YOU KNOW, IS NOT IN A QUESTION, WE ARE GONNA MAKE SURE THAT NOTHING IS GOING BEYOND WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO IMPACT THE, UH, SLOPE.
THAT'S WHY WE ACTUALLY ABSORB THE COST OF THE RETAINING VAULT COST OF THE, THE DESIGN OF THE RETAINING VAULT, COST
[00:35:01]
OF THE ARCHEOLOGY SURVEY AND ALL THESE THINGS JUST BECAUSE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD KNOW THAT WE ARE DOING THAT IN A GOOD FAITH AND MAKE SURE THAT THE SYMMETRY IS INTACT BASICALLY.AND THAT'S ONGOING WITH THE ARCHEOLOGICAL, UH, APPROACH AS WELL.
THAT'S TIED IN WITH THE THC THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.
THE ARCHE ARCHEOLOGICAL REPORT.
THAT'S WHAT THANK UH, DO ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THOSE AT HOME? DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, BEN, I'M CALLING FOR A MOTION COMMISSIONER TAYLOR, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, OH, HANG ON.
OUR ATTORNEY, OUR ATTORNEY HAS SOMETHING TO TELL US FIRST SOME SORT OF LEGAL BUSINESS.
UH, THIS IS MARISSA HINES WITH THE CITY'S ATTORNEY CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
JUST SINCE THIS IS A UNIQUE SITUATION AND THERE IS NO STRUCTURE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A ROAD I WAS GONNA READ IN THE STANDARD THAT WE'RE USING TODAY, JUST, UM, FOR EVERYONE.
SO THE RELEVANT STANDARD IS IN THE ORDINANCE CREATING THE 10TH STREET HISTORICAL OVERLAY AND IT'S SECTION SIX.
UM, IT'S REFERENCED IN THE, THE, UM, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
IT'S THE ALL PAVED AREAS, PERMANENT DRIVES, STREETS AND DRAINAGE STRUCTURES, IF ANY, MUST BE CONSTRUCTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE STANDARD CITY OF DALLAS SPECIFICATIONS AND COMPLETED TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS.
YOU DIDN'T EVEN SCOLD US FOR ANYTHING.
NOW, COMMISSIONER TAYLOR
OKAY? SO WITH ALL THE CONDITIONS, THE STAFF IS INCLUDED? YES.
AND DO WE WANT ANY CONDITION, DIDN'T WE TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ABOUT PREPARING THE WALL SO IT'S READY TO RECEIVE A MURAL OR SOMETHING? I, I THINK WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'RE GONNA COORDINATE THAT WITH, UH, OUR DEPARTMENT.
UM, DOES THE ATTORNEY NEED HIM TO SAY THAT LONGER OR? WE USUALLY DO READ IN THE, UH, CD, UH, CA NUMBER SO THAT WE KNOW WHICH ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
'CAUSE IT'S THE PERMANENT RECORD.
THEY GO BACK AND LISTEN IF THERE'S AN APPEAL OR, OH, I KNEW YOUR MICROPHONE.
OH, HE IS, HIS MICROPHONE'S JUST THE SHORT ONE.
THAT TALL ONE IS THE NEXT FOR 100 NORTHMORE STREET, UH, 10 STREET HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD HISTORICAL DISTRICT CA 2 3 4 DASH OH NINE FOUR.
UM, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO RECONSTRUCT THE 10TH STREET STREET BETWEEN 10 INTERSTATE 35 E AND EAST CLARITON DRIVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS SECOND.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.
I THINK COMMISSIONER SHERMAN GOT IN THERE FIRST.
UM, IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? UH, YES, I HAVE A, A QUESTION, A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT THE WALL BE PAINTED A MEDIUM TOE COLOR SO THAT THERE WOULD BE A, A GRAFFITI CONCERN OF MY MIND THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE A GRAFFITI ISSUE WITH THAT THEY COULD PAINT OVER IT.
ALSO, I THINK WHITE CONCRETE IS PRETTY BRIGHT.
SO A A DECENT SHADE OF TO WOULD HELP FROM THE GRAFFITI STANDPOINT ALSO SOFTEN THE EFFECT OF THE BIG WALL.
YEAH, I'M FINE WITH THAT AMENDMENT.
YOU CAN TEMPT THE CONCRETE, RIGHT? SORRY, WE CAN ADD DYE TO THE CONCRETE, UM, TO PAINT IT IN ANY OTHER COLOR.
BUT, UH, YEAH, MY, MY CONCERN IS THAT GRAFFITI WILL HAPPEN AND I'VE SEEN PEOPLE, UH, TRYING TO COVER OVER A SHADE OF TOE OR A CONCRETE AND IT'S GONNA BE A MIRAGE OF ALL KINDS OF STRIPES.
I THINK IF WE DO A CERTAIN COLOR AND THEY KEEP THAT ON HAND, THEY CAN JUST GO OVER AND PAINT IT WHEN IT'S NEEDS TO BE PAINTED.
AND THAT CAN ALSO BE THE BASE FOR THE MURAL IN THE FUTURE.
IF, IF YOU THINK THAT'S NECESSARY AND HELPFUL, WE CAN DO THAT.
OR, UM, WE COULD ASSUME THAT, UM, YOU'RE GONNA REPAINT IT ALL WITH A BASE COLOR WHEN IT'S TIME TO DO THE MURAL ANYWAY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO MURALS ON, ON
IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL PREPPED, UM, BEFOREHAND, EVEN IF THERE IS GRAFFITI OR NOT GRAFFITI, BUT I'M WILLING TO MAKE THAT AMENDMENT.
SO THE, THE ADDITIONAL AMENDMENT IS THAT IT WILL BE PROPERLY PAINTED IN A NEUTRAL TOE COLOR IN A WAY THAT STICKS TO THE CONCRETE, WHICH IS SOMETIMES A CHALLENGE.
I'M SURE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THAT, CORRECT? WELL, THE THING, THE ONLY THING IS IF THE FUTURE ART IS BEING CONSIDERED FOR WITH OFFICE OF ARTS AND CULTURE, THEN THEY MAY HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF SAYING OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BEFORE THE ART GOES ON THE WALL.
SO I DON'T WANNA SET ANY RULES RIGHT NOW THAT CREATES A PROBLEM LATER ON IF THERE'S A ART IS GOING TO BE INSTALLED ON THE WALL.
I WOULD MAKE THE COMMENT THAT SINCE WE ARE TALKING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ARTS AND CULTURE, THAT WE WOULD COORDINATE
[00:40:01]
THAT REP BEFOREHAND SINCE THIS WALL IS A SUBSTANTIAL TIME BEFORE IT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED.COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, MY QUESTION WOULD BE FOR DR. DUNN, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE ORDINANCE THAT EVEN DISCUSSES MURAL? CHANCES ARE NO.
SO I THINK WE'VE GOT THE CART AHEAD OF THE HORSE HERE.
WE DON'T EVEN HAVE ANYTHING IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT ADDRESSES MURALS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
SO I THINK IT'S ALL KIND OF A MOOT POINT IN THAT REGARD AND HENCE FORTH.
IT'S PROBABLY AN ARTS AND CULTURE SITUATION.
BUT WOULD THEY NOT HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE LANDMARK COMMISSION TO, FOR THERE TO BE A MURAL OR IS IT JUST WITH RECKLESS ABANDON? YOU CAN PAINT WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE IN 10TH STREET.
N NO, I MEAN EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT REFERENCE A MURAL, I WOULD LIKE IT TO COME BACK FOR A RIGHT.
SO FOR US TO ADDRESS IT NOW IS IT'S NOT APPLICABLE, IT'S PREMATURE AND NOT APPLICABLE.
THEN MY READING IS THE, UM, WHAT WE HAVE PROPOSED RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW ALL STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND APPROVAL.
WE DIDN'T ADD ANYTHING IN YET.
IS THERE MORE DISCUSSION OR ARE WE READY FOR A VOTE? OKAY, THEN I'LL CALL FOR THE VOTE ON THIS.
IS MR. ANDERSON THE ONLY OPPOSITION? OKAY THEN THE MOTION DOES CARRY BY MAJORITY AND I GUESS GO, GO FILTER ROAD WITH GREAT CONSIDERATION FOR THE NEIGHBORS, SAY HI TO ALL OF THEM AND TALK TO THE MOST ABSOLUTELY.
I JUST WANNA THANK THE ALL COMMISSIONER AND ALSO MR. JOHNSON FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, ADVOCATING FOR THE COMMUNITY AND KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE ALSO UPGRADING THE WATER LINE AND WASTEWATER LINE.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE PROBABLY FOR 50 YEARS.
SO JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT JUST A ROAD ITSELF, THE UTILITY ALSO IS BEING UPGRADED.
I'M GLAD YOU'RE DOING IT AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE WE HAD A ROAD JET AND THEN THEY DECIDED TO FIX THE WATER LINES AND THAT DID NOT SEEM LIKE GOOD PLANNING.
YEAH, COURTESY REVIEW TOO IS OUR NEXT.
PRE PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF STAFF COURTESY REVIEW.
ITEM NUMBER TWO IS EIGHT 12 NORTH MARCELLUS AVENUE IN THE LAKE CLIFF HISTORIC DISTRICT CR 2 3 4 DASH ZERO THREE MW.
THIS IS A COURTESY REVIEW TO CONSTRUCT A NEW FOUR STORY MULTI-FAMILY BUILDING WITH REAR GARAGES AND SURFACE PARKING ON A VACANT LOT STAFF.
RE RECOMMENDATION IS COURTESY REVIEW, NO ACTION REQUIRED.
THAT THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT NEW FOUR STORY MULTI-FAMILY BUILDING WITH REAR GARAGES AND SURFACE PARKING ON A VACANT LOT BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN AS WELL AS ANY ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE SUBMITTED FOR LANDMARK COMMISSION REVIEW.
TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE COMMENTS ONLY SUPPORTIVE.
CONSIDER HIERARCHY OF FENESTRATION AND ORGANIZATION OF SOLID TO VOID RATIOS.
TAKE CARE ON THE SIDES BECAUSE THEY WILL BE VERY VISIBLE.
CONSIDER MORE FENESTRATION ON THE SIDES, ONE OVER ONE WINDOWS ON THE SIDES AND REAR ACCEPTABLE.
AND WE DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER ON THIS.
AS YOU'VE HEARD BY NOW, YOU HAVE TO START BY GIVING US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND THEN PROMISE YOU'LL TELL US THE TRUTH.
LET'S TRY AGAIN AND PERHAPS POINT IT MORE TOWARDS YOUR MOUTH OR NOT QUITE AS TALL AS THE GENTLEMAN.
UM, SO YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, WHICH ELAINE THERE WE'LL TIME YOU.
DO I NEED TO REPEAT MY INTRO? NO, I THINK WE GOT IT.
UM, SO AS MARCUS MENTIONED, THIS IS AT, UH, EIGHT 12 NORTH.
THIS IS THE CURRENT CONDITION.
IT IS A VACANT LOT AND I BELIEVE HAS BEEN VACANT SINCE AROUND THE NINETIES.
UM, THIS IS THE SITE CONDITIONS.
IT HAS A STEEP SLOPE, UM, GOING DOWN TOWARDS THE ALLEY NEXT.
UM, THE BUILDING SHOWN ON THE LEFT THE WELLINGTON APARTMENTS WAS THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION FROM THE 1920S.
SO THIS IS A FIVE STORY APARTMENT BUILDING THAT DID USED TO EXIST ON THE SITE, I BELIEVE, UNTIL THE NINETIES WHEN IT GOT TORN DOWN.
UM, AND THEN I ALSO JUST PUT IN LAKE CLIFF TOWER THERE 'CAUSE WE'RE VERY CLOSE BY.
UM, THERE IS PRECEDENT IN THE AREA
[00:45:01]
FOR TALLER BUILDINGS FOR APARTMENTS.THIS IS OUR SITE PLAN, UM, COMING IN WITH A DRIVE FROM MARCELLUS, UH, WITH ALL THE PARKING IN THE REAR.
UM, AND IT IS A FOUR STORY WITH KIND OF A HALF BASEMENT FACING TOWARDS THE PARKING AREA WITH SOME PRIVATE GARAGES AND THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE.
UM, THE ONLY NON BRICK IS IN THE RECESS OF THE BALCONY IN THE CENTER.
AND WE HAVE BRICK PY LASTERS, UM, PROPORTIONED ACROSS WITH A CASTSTONE BASE, SOME BRICK BANDING AND DETAILING.
UM, THE TASK FORCE COMMENT ABOUT, UM, HIERARCHY OF FENESTRATION WAS ADDRESSED, UM, ON THE, THE LARGER WINDOWS ON THE SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH FLOOR.
THEY USED TO ALL BE THAT SIZE.
SO WE, WE GAVE SOME, UM, SOME SMALLER AND LARGER TO SOFTEN THE FRONT AND NOT LOOK LIKE A SCHOOL.
UM, WE HAVE, UM, A METAL AWNING OVER THE ENTRY, UM, WITH THE CENTER, UM, FRONT DOOR INTO THE WHOLE BUILDING.
THIS IS THE REAR, UM, ON LEFT AND RIGHT.
OUR, UM, THE BUILDING ENTRANCES FROM THE PARKING.
IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM A FLAT ELEVATION, BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY A, A RECESS INTO THE BUILDING OF ABOUT SIX FEET OR SO BEFORE YOU REACH THE DOORS.
UM, THE BRICK WRAPS ON THOSE CORNERS, AND THEN ABOVE THE FIRST, OR THAT THE BASEMENT LEVEL IS, UH, FIBER CEMENT, LAP SIDING, AND PROJECTED BALCONIES.
THE SIDES ARE A HUNDRED PERCENT BRICK.
AND, UM, AGAIN, KIND OF PER FOLLOWING, UH, LISTENING TO THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, WE DID REVISE THE WINDOWS ON THE SITE IN REAR TO BE ONE OVER ONE INSTEAD OF SIX OVER ONE TO, UM, TO GIVE SOME HIERARCHY TO THE FRONT.
BUT THE BANDING AND THE BRICK CONTINUES ON BOTH SIDES.
THIS WOULD BE SORT OF THE SLOPE OF THE DRIVEWAY GOING DOWN IN PERSPECTIVE.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE, THE METAL AWNING UP BIT BETTER.
UM, EXCUSE ME, THAT'S YOUR TIME.
MAY I HAVE TWO EXTRA MINUTES? I DON'T HAVE MANY MORE SLIDES.
WE HAVE A PROCEDURE FOR THAT
UM, MS. BARING HAVE ANOTHER TWO MINUTES.
IT ALL IS IN FAVOR A AYE, AYE.
UM, THIS IS IT ALONG, UM, THE ENTIRE BLOCK.
UM, THE HILLCREST HOUSE ON THE LEFT IS ALSO FOUR STORIES.
IT LOOKS MUCH SMALLER BECAUSE IT'S 50 FEET BACK FROM THE ROAD.
UM, SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT 'EM SIDE BY SIDE, OURS IS NO TALLER THAN THEIRS.
IT'S JUST, UM, THE DEPTH PERCEPTION.
UM, WE DID ADD A LITTLE WHITE THAT YOU CAN SEE THE ROOFTOPS OF THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT.
UM, THE ONE ON THE FAR RIGHT, THE LONG HORIZONTAL IS A FIRE ABANDONED BUILDING.
SO HERE, THAT'S THEN SIDE BY SIDE IN PROPORTION.
IT'S A MIX OF, UM, THERE'S A FEW STUDIOS, MOSTLY ONE BEDROOMS AND THEN ALSO SOME TWO, UH, TWO BEDROOM.
UM, ON THE UPPER FLOORS IT'S 31 UNITS.
AND THE NEXT SLIDE, AND THIS IS JUST TO SHOW YOU AN INSIGHT PLAN WITH THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORS.
WE HAVE ALREADY DONE THE, THE SURVEY, UM, TO DO THE AVERAGE BLOCK FACE.
AND AT MARCUS'S RECOMMENDATION, WE'VE SHOWED BOTH.
THAT INCLUDES HILLCREST HOUSE AND ALSO DOESN'T INCLUDE HILLCREST HOUSE SINCE IT'S SUCH AN OUTLIER.
UM, SO THAT WE ARE MORE IN LINE WITH OUR, OUR NEIGHBORS.
UM, IT'S APPROXIMATELY 35 FEET OFF THE ROAD.
YOU HAVE A QUESTION? COMMISSIONER OSA, GO AHEAD.
UH, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PREVENT WATER BUILDUP AT THE RECESS IN THE BACK? YES.
SO, UM, WE, OUR CIVIL ENGINEER IS GOING TO DO A FULL DRAINAGE STUDY.
UM, SO THEY'RE NOT ENTIRELY SURE IF IT WILL BE, UM, ONSITE DETENTION, UM, IN PIPES UNDER THE PARKING LOT THEMSELVES, OR IF IT WILL BE PART OF THE STORM SYSTEM THAT'S OFF THE ALLEY, BUT IT WILL BE ONE OR THE OTHER.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OH, FIRST I'LL LOOK TO THE LEFT.
ANY QUESTIONS OVER HERE ON THE LEFT? ALRIGHT.
YOU HAVE TO BE FASTER AND LOUDER.
I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR FOUNDATION AND HOW THE BUILDING TOUCHES
[00:50:01]
THE GROUND.DO YOU HAVE A, A CONCRETE FOOTING OR IS THERE A CLIP THAT'S, THAT IT'S SITTING ON? YES, THE FOUNDATIONS HAVE YET TO BE DESIGNED, BUT IT WOULD BE ON A, A FULL CONCRETE FOUNDATION.
UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY WOULD END UP DOING PIERS LIKELY SO WITH THE SOILS IN THIS AREA.
BUT YES, ALL OF THE BRICK WOULD BE SUPPORTED BY CONCRETE.
AND MY OTHER QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE, UM, THE WINDOWS ON THE BACK ELEVATION.
THE PAIRED WINDOWS APPEAR TO BE SEPARATED BY A POST, WHEREAS ON THE FRONT ELEVATION THEY'RE SMOOSHED TOGETHER.
IS THAT BY DESIGN OR COULD YOU SEPARATE THE ONES ON THE FRONT ALSO? THAT WAS BY DESIGN.
UM, IN MY OBSERVATION OF HISTORIC DESIGN IN THE AREA, WHEN IT IS IN SOME SORT OF SIDING PRODUCT, USUALLY THERE IS TRIM IN BETWEEN THE TWO WINDOWS.
BUT WITH BRICK, IF YOU'RE DOING, IF YOU SEPARATE THEM, IT WOULD EITHER BE A TRIM PIECE IN BETWEEN OR LITTLE TINY SLIVER OF BRICK IN BETWEEN.
SO USUALLY WITH BRICK, THEY'RE MOLD TOGETHER SIDE BY SIDE IS MY OBSERVATION.
THAT WOULD BE OPEN TO LOOKING AT OTHER HISTORIC PRECEDENT.
OKAY, OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER OSI, FIRST OFF, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING TO US WITH A DESIGN THAT RESPECTS THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND REALLY WORKING TO MAKE IT HAVE FEATURES THAT HISTORIC FEATURES THAT WERE PRESENT AT ONE TIME.
UM, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE, THE ER, IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM THE DRAWINGS, BUT HOW DID THEY, UM, UH, EXTRUDE FROM THE BUILDING A CERTAIN DISTANCE? I'M, I'M TRYING TO SEE IF THERE'S SOME CHANGES IN LEVEL OF THE FRONT, FRONT FACADE THERE WITH THE PILE LEERS? YES.
UM, CURRENTLY THE DESIGN IS, IS A MINOR BUMP OF JUST A, A ONE INCH BUMP THAT GOES THE WHOLE HEIGHT.
UM, AND THEN THE BOTH HORIZONTAL BANDS, THE ONE BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND AND THE ONE AT THE PARA PIT, UM, ALSO PROJECT THE SAME INCH.
UM, AND THE CASTSTONE IS ANOTHER INCH BEYOND THAT.
I, I WOULD RECOMMEND THE PILE LESSERS COMING OUT FURTHER SO YOU GET MORE OF A SHADOW LINE MAYBE, UH, WIDTH OF A BRICK OR JUST SOMETHING TO, TO HELP GIVE THE FACADE A LITTLE BIT OF PLAY.
ONE INCH IS REALLY NOT GONNA BE ENOUGH, UH, TO DO THAT.
AND SO MY QUESTION AGAIN WAS WITH ALSO SAME QUESTION WITH THE BANDING AND THEN THE CORNICE AS WELL.
CURRENTLY THEY'RE IN LINE WITH THE FRONT OF THE PI LESTER.
I WOULD IMAGINE IF THE PIERS ARE GOING A GOOD THREE TO FOUR, I DON'T KNOW IF I'D PULL IT OUT ALL THE WAY FORWARD, BUT IT COULD BE TWO TO WHERE THERE'S THE THREE DIFFERENT, UM, LEVELS.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT AS WELL.
UM, AND THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD WAS YOU HAD THE RED BRICK IN THERE AND YOU HAD WHITE BRICK IN THE, UM, THE MATERIALS OF PORTION, I BELIEVE IT'S THE PACKET.
I BELIEVE IT'S A TAN OR TAN BRICK, SORRY.
AND UM, OUR ORIGINAL DESIGN THAT WE PRESENTED TO TASKFORCE, UM, LEANED EVEN MORE, UM, OF A HISTORIC COPY AND HOW THE BANDING WAS DONE.
AND PART OF THE FEEDBACK, ESPECIALLY FROM, UM, FROM PENA ON, UM, TASKFORCE, WHICH I COMPLETELY AGREED WITH, WAS YOU DON'T WANNA STRAIGHT UP COPY HISTORIC.
BECAUSE THIS ISN'T HISTORIC, RIGHT? IT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SO WE ARE RESPECTING KIND OF THE PROPORTIONS IN THE FENESTRATION THAT YOU WOULD SEE IN A BUILDING OF THIS SIZE.
BUT WE WANTED TO LOOK AT HOW THE DETAILING WAS DONE TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE MODERN AND SO THEN THE WHITE WAS REMOVED FROM THAT.
SO BECAUSE AT ONE DRAWING IT LOOKED LIKE THE WHITE WAS PART OF THE, UM, UH, TO DESIGN AND THE THE BAND BEING DESIGN.
I THINK IN UPDATING THE FACADE IN BETWEEN TASK FORCE AND THE FINAL.
SO THAT'S COME OUT IT, IT DIDN'T, YEAH.
THAT'S, THAT'S COME OUT THERE.
AND THEN WHAT IS THE MATERIAL THAT IS, UH, IN THE BALCONY AREA THERE? THAT'S, THAT'S JUST SIDING THAT MEAN WOOD SIDING.
UM, WE WERE PROPOSING A FIBER CEMENT SIDING.
UM, LAKE CLIFF DOES NOT SAY THAT THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
WHO ELSE OVER THERE? COMMISSIONER RENE OR COMMISSIONER? YEAH, I JUST HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THAT.
DETAILING IN PARTICULAR, THE, THE WIDTHS OF THE HIGH LASTERS.
WAS THAT, UM, FROM SOME HISTORIC, UM, PRECEDENTS OR SOMETHING THAT YOU'D SEEN BEFORE? THEY SEEM PRETTY THIN TO ME.
IT'S, UM, IT'S TWO AND A HALF BRICKS WIDE.
I WAS TRYING TO KEEP IT WITHIN THE BRICK, UM, MODULE.
RIGHT? I MEAN, I WOULD ALMOST GO TO BRICKS LONGER.
UM, THE OTHER THING I WAS WONDERING WAS THE COLOR OF THE, THE INSET ON THE SIDING.
UM, WERE YOU LOOKING FOR THAT TO BE A STARK CONTRAST OR, OR SIMILAR TO THE BRICK SO THAT IT WOULD FEEL MORE CONTIGUOUS? UM, I DO WANT IT TO NOT LOOK LIKE IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME COLOR AS THE BRICK.
UM, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A REAL STARK CONTRAST.
YEAH, THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT TOO.
YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT THIS SIDING COLOR.
[00:55:03]
YES, I WILL LET COMMISSIONER ANDERSON GO FIRST AND THEN WHOEVER I JUST HEARD, I'M SORRY.I HAVE A, A QUESTION ABOUT THE WINDOWS.
ARE THEY WOOD WINDOWS? AND ARE THE MILLIONS EXPRESSED ON THE OUTSIDE? WHAT? UM, THEY ARE WOOD WINDOWS.
UM, I DON'T BELIEVE WE FINALIZED A PRODUCT YET, BUT MOST IMPORTANT THE MULTIPLE LIGHTS AT THE TOP ARE GONNA BE EXPRESSED ON THE OUTSIDE.
IT'S GOING TO HAVE THE MULLINS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GLASS.
UM, I AM UNSURE ABOUT THAT AT THIS TIME.
IF THAT IS IMPORTANT, I'LL MAKE A NOTE OF IT.
WE NEED TO KNOW THAT WHEN WE COME BACK BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THEM TO HAVE THE VOLUME BETWEEN THE GLASS.
THEY NEED TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE EXPRESSED.
LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, EXPRESSED.
AND GO BACK TO THE, I WANT THE PICTURE OF THE, THE SETBACK.
I WASN'T SURE THE SETBACK LINED UP AS WELL AS IT MIGHT.
YEAH, IT, DOES IT APPEAR THAT IT'S STICKING OUT FURTHER THAN ANYTHING ELSE ON THE BLOCK OR, THAT'S MY IMAGINATION.
UM, THE, THE DEFINITION IN THIS ORDINANCE IS WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE AVERAGE OR 10 FEET OF THE AVERAGE.
THAT'S, IF THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, THEN YOU'RE FINE.
OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION OR GO AHEAD.
COMMISSIONER OSA, COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS.
WILL THE PARKING ENTRANCE BE RIGHT THERE? UH, IN THE BACK AT THAT SET SETBACK? IT WILL BE ON, UM, THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING TOWARDS, UH, MARCELLUS.
IT DOES NOT CONNECT TO THE ALLEY.
AND, UH, YOU SAID THERE WERE 30 INDIVIDUAL UNITS.
SO HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE YOU PROPOSING? UM, IT'S 31 AND THERE SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO MEET THE ORDINANCE.
UM, WE ARE ALSO UTILIZING, UM, UH, THREE STREET SPACES.
UM, NOT TAKING A LANE FROM MARCELLUS BUT RECESSING, UM, INTO THE PARKWAY, WHICH IS ALLOWED IN THE ZONING.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WELL, I HAD ONE I ASK EARLIER IN THE BRIEFING YOUR MODULAR VENEER BRICK.
JUST REASSURE ME, THAT'S BRICKS STACK ON TOP WITH MORTAR AND EVERYTHING.
THAT IS A REAL THREE AND FIVE EIGHT STEP BRICK.
UM, IT'S JUST AN INDUSTRY TERM TO PUT VENEER.
SO YOU'RE NOT DOING, YOU DON'T MEAN IT'S NOT THE THREE WIFE THAT'S THE STRUCTURAL HOLDING UP.
I'D JUST LIKE TO CLARIFY SOMETIMES.
SO YES, JUST WHY DON'T YOU USE BRICKS? NICE.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION ON THIS, SO DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING WE DID NOT, WE MISSED CLARIFYING THAT YOU WERE WONDERING ABOUT? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
WE'VE TOUCHED WINDOWS, WE'VE TOUCHED THE SIDING.
UM, AND WE WILL, UM, I, YES, ACTUALLY MARCUS, COULD YOU BRING UP THE SITE PLAN? WE'VE BEEN IN CONVERSATION, UM, WITH PHIL IRWIN, THE HEAD OF ARBORIST AND, UH, DAVID AT TRAFFIC BECAUSE OF THE DRIVEWAY.
UM, SO THIS ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN BEFORE ARTICLE 10 AND ALL OF THE TREE MITIGATION.
WE WANNA KEEP, WE ALWAYS WANNA ON OUR PROJECTS, WANNA KEEP AS MANY TREES AS POSSIBLE.
UM, BUT BECAUSE OF THE DRIVE ENTRANCE, THAT ONE ON THE, UM, BOTTOM LEFT OF THE PAGE THAT WILL LIKELY NEED TO GO.
UM, THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A PROCESS THAT'S DOCUMENTED IN THE ORDINANCE.
SO WE WERE JUST PROPOSING, YOU KNOW, DOING OUR BEST TO KEEP ALL OF THE TREES POSSIBLE.
AND IF SOMETHING HAD TO GO, IT FOLLOWED ALL OF THE ARTICLE 10 MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS AND WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS OKAY.
WELL, WE CERTAINLY WOULD WANT YOU TO MITIGATE IT AND UNLESS THIS IS ONE OF THOSE HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHERE WE DON'T REVIEW LANDSCAPING, YOU WOULD COME BACK SOMEDAY WITH YOUR LANDSCAPING PLAN SHOWING WHERE YOU WIND TO PLANT MORE TREES OR BIG BUSHES, NOT PETUNIAS.
WE DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, BIG THINGS
SO I BELIEVE IT DOES INCLUDE LANDSCAPE IF I COULD HAVE CONFIRMATION.
SO THAT WILL BE A, YOU KNOW, AND THAT YOU, YOU COULD BUILD THE BUILDING FIRST AND COME BACK AND SHOW YOU.
COULD I PRESENT LANDSCAPE AT THE SAME TIME? THEY MAY BE ABLE TO BRING IT WHEN THEY BRING THIS WHOLE
YEAH, YOU CAN BRING THE WHOLE THING OR DO IT IN PIECES DEPENDING ON WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.
JUST DON'T BRING THE LANDSCAPE WITHOUT A BUILDING YET.
WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE BUILDING FIRST.
ALL RIGHT, WELL THANK YOU FOR COMING.
COURTESY REVIEW IS HOPEFULLY HELPFUL TO YOU AND IT CERTAINLY SAYS A LOT OF HEADACHES ON OUR PART BECAUSE BY THE TIME PEOPLE HAVE COMPLETED THEIR PLANS WITHOUT ASKING US, SOMETIMES THEY'RE A LITTLE ANNOYED.
I A I HAD A QUESTION FOR STAFF.
UM, IS THE ONLY THING THAT'S ALLOWED IN TERMS OF UH, UH, PAVING IS BRUSHED CONCRETE OR, UH, YEAH.
IN OTHER WORDS, NOTHING IMPERVIOUS TO TRY AND PROTECT THE TREE.
KATE KATE'S GONNA LOOK IT UP, I THINK.
I'M SORRY I DID NOT BRING MY BOOK, BUT KATE ALWAYS BRINGS HERS.
YES, KATE, KATE IS LOOKING UP THE SPECIFIC ORDINANCE LANGUAGE
[01:00:01]
AND IT'S GONNA TURN HER MIC ON BEFORE SHE, OKAY, HERE WE GO.3.3 NEW DRIVEWAY, SIDEWALK STEPS AND WALKWAYS MUST BE CONSTRUCTED OF BRICK BRUSH, UH, UH, BRUSH FINISHED CONCRETE STONE OR OTHER APPROPRIATE MATERIAL.
ARTIFICIAL GRASS, ARTIFICIALLY COLORED, CONCRETE, ASPHALT EXPOSED AGGREGATE AND OUTDOOR CARPET ARE NOT ALLOWED OR NOT FOR WELL DARN, I'M SURE THEY WERE PLANNING ON USING THAT LOVELY OUTDOOR CARPET THROUGHOUT THEIR NEW APARTMENT.
I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU MIGHT CONSIDER SOMETHING TO PROTECT THE TREE.
I, UH, YOU KNOW, BRICK'S GONNA MOVE AROUND A BIT, BUT IT'LL ALSO, IT'S PERVIOUS.
I MEAN THE WATER WILL PASS THROUGH THE, UM, THROUGH THE, UH, THROUGH THE JOINTS, BUT UH, IT'S GONNA MOVE
SO ANYWAY, JUST BE AS CONSIDERATE AS YOU CAN OF THE TREAT.
ALRIGHT, WELL WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU COME BACK.
AND NOW WE MOVE ON TO COURTESY REVIEW NUMBER ONE, WHICH STAFF CAN READ AND THEN WE HAVE TWO REGISTERED SPEAKER FOR THAT ONE.
OKAY, AGAIN, I'M MARCUS WATSON PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF STAFF COURTESY REVIEW.
NUMBER ONE IS SIX 12 EAST FIFTH STREET IN THE LAKE CLIFF, HISTORIC DISTRICT CR 2 3 4 DASH 0 0 4 MW.
THIS IS A COURTESY REVIEW TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO AND A HALF STORY MULTI-FAMILY BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION IS COURTESY REVIEW, NO ACTION REQUIRED.
THAT THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A NEW 2.2 AND A HALF STORY MULTI-FAMILY BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED.
THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN AS WELL AS ANY ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE SUBMITTED FOR LANDMARK COMMISSION REVIEW.
TASK FORCE COMMENTS ARE COMMENTS ONLY SUPPORTIVE, BEAUTIFUL PROJECTS ARE THE BRACES AND THE GABLES EVEN NEEDED.
ARE SPEAKERS FOR THIS ARE BOTH, I BELIEVE ONLINE AND I DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST.
WE HAVE ANDREW MCFE AND ROBERT MC BESSEL.
THIS IS ROBERT MC BESSEL, UH, I WILL GO FIRST.
I'M ACTUALLY, UH, ON THIS CALL FROM THE PHILIPPINES.
SO, UM, WHERE I'M ON A BUSINESS TRIP, ANDREW WAS MY BACKUP.
IN CASE WE HAD A, WELL, WHEN YOU'RE NOT IN THE PHILIPPINES.
WHAT'S YOUR ADDRESS? UH, MY ADDRESS IN DALLAS IS 1 4 2 7 HAYNES AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 0 8.
AND YOU PROMISED TO TELL THE TRUTH? ABSOLUTELY.
WE ALSO NEED TO SEE YOU TO PROVE IT'S YOU LES SOME FIEND TO TRY TO IMPERSONATE YOU AND SAY EMBARRASSING THINGS.
HOW'S THAT? OH, LET ME, LET ME GET BACK OFF.
YOU HAVE, UM, THREE MINUTES, AND AS YOU PROBABLY JUST SAW, IF YOU NEED MORE THAN THAT, WE CAN ARRANGE THAT, BUT WE'LL START WITH THREE MINUTES.
WE'LL, TIME YOU JUST, UM, METS, MAKE SURE YOU CAN SHARE YOUR SCREEN.
WELL, MARCUS, MARCUS, CAN YOU JUST, MARCUS, CAN YOU JUST DO IT? I CAN DO IT, YES.
SO, UH, THIS PROJECT IS, UM, YOU SAW ON THE BRIEFING THIS MORNING.
THIS PROJECT IS ON FIFTH STREET.
IT IS AT THE FAR LEFT HAND, OR FAR EAST EDGE OF THE LAKE CLIFF HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IT IS NOT ACTUALLY AT THE CORNER OF, UH, FIFTH AND MARCELOS, BUT SET BACK ONE LOT.
UH, IT IS AN UNUSUAL LOT FOR DALLAS.
IT'S A HUNDRED FEET WIDE AND 75 FEET DEEP, SO IT IS A 7,500 FOOT LOT, BUT IT'S KIND OF TURNED THE OTHER DIRECTION.
SO WE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE NEW, THE NEW ARCHITECTS FOR THIS.
AND AS, UH, WAS MENTIONED, THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN IN SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE YOU, TO YOU BEFORE.
AND WE JUST TOOK A CLEAN SLATE WITH THIS.
AND WE STARTED BY GOING BACK AND RECONCEPTUALIZING IT IS RATHER THAN THREE TOWN HOMES OR ROW HOUSES, MORE OF A, UH, AN APARTMENT BUILDING BASED ON THE HISTORIC, UH, APARTMENT BUILDINGS OF LAKE CLIFF.
AND THESE ARE THE SIX THAT WE IDENTIFIED ALONG THERE AND STUDIED.
THERE IS ONE THAT IS WOOD SIDING.
THEY ALL HAVE A, UH, KIND OF A SERRATED ROOF LINE, IF YOU WILL, EITHER WITH A GABLES, UH, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF DETAIL AT A PARAPET, IF IT'S A FLAT ROOF OR A DORMER.
[01:05:01]
THE PROJECT BACKS UP TO OR SURROUNDED BY.CAN YOU GO TO THE NEXT ONE, PLEASE? OKAY.
OH, ONE DROPPED OUT THERE, THERE WAS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PROJECT THERE.
ANYWAY, UM, IT BACKS UP TO, UH, EAST, UH, TO A, A FRAME BUILDING ON THE CORNER.
AND THEN IT BACKS UP TO 5 1 4 NORTH MARCELLUS IN THE BACK.
WE DID THAT PROJECT THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO.
THE KEY ELEMENTS THAT WE TOOK AWAY FROM THIS ARE THAT THEY ARE MOSTLY BRICK.
THEY HAVE GANG, SINGLE OR DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS.
THERE'S ALMOST ALWAYS, NOT EXCLUSIVELY, BUT A CENTRAL FOCUS, NOT NECESSARILY AN ENTRANCE, BUT SOME KIND OF CENTRAL FOCUS.
THEY HAVE SOME SORT OF DORMER OR ROOF PRO, UH, PROFILE.
THEY MAY HAVE A RECESSED BALCONY, AND THE EVE HEIGHT IS ALWAYS AT THE TOP OF THE SECOND FLOOR.
SO WE TOOK THOSE AS GO BYS AS WE WERE DEVELOPING THE CONCEPT.
WE'RE ABOUT TO SHOW YOU NEXT, PLEASE.
IT'S THREE NOT TOWNS, THREE APARTMENT UNITS.
EACH ONE IS THREE BEDROOMS, THREE AND A HALF BATHS, TWO CAR GARAGE.
THEY ARE ABOUT 2,400 SQUARE FEET OF AIR CONDITIONED SPACE, NOT COUNTING THE GARAGES.
THE MIDDLE UNIT HAS AN ENTRY DIRECTLY OFF OF FIFTH STREET, AND THE TWO SIDE UNITS HAVE SIDE ENTRANCES FROM THE SIDE YARDS, ALL OF THE PARKING ENTRANCE FROM THE ALLEY AND A DRIVEWAY ON THE SOUTH SIDE IN THE BACK.
UH, THEY ARE TWO AND A HALF BED, UH, STORIES.
MAY I HAVE TWO MINUTES PLEASE? ON, UH, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, DO YOU WELL, YEAH, I MAY.
UM, MR. MC BESSEL HAVE TWO MORE MINUTES, PLEASE.
EVERYONE ALSO, THIS, I'M HAVING TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEMS. OKAY.
WELL, WE, LET'S VOTE ON, DO WE WANNA GIVE 'EM TWO MORE MINUTES? WE HAVE A, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? NO, THERE WOULDN'T BE.
I HAVE THE TECHNICAL PROBLEMS BEEN SOLVED.
WHAT WAS, WHO WAS, LEMME TRY THIS ONE BOTH.
I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND FORTH MAYBE.
YOU CAN CONTINUE, SIR, WITH TWO MORE MINUTES.
UH, CAN YOU GO TO THE, THE PERSPECTIVE, THE STREET VIEW, MARCUS? I, I'M SORRY, THIS IS THE ONE THAT FROZE THERE.
UM, DO HAVE IT IN OUR DOCKET MATERIALS RIGHT AFTER, RIGHT BELOW THE PLANS, SO WE CAN LOOK OURSELVES.
WELL, IF YOU COULD DO THAT, I WOULD, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
UH, AGAIN, IT IS LARGELY BRICK.
IT IS A CENTER FOCUS, WHICH IS THE CENTER UNIT ENTRY AND A BALCONY ABOVE A RECESSED BALCONY, UH, SIMILAR TO ONE OF THE OTHER, UH, UH, PRECEDENTS ALONG MARCELLUS.
UH, IT DOES HAVE GABLES, OR EXCUSE ME, DORMERS, UH, IN MAKING THE, UH, BRINGING LIGHT INTO THE PRIMARY SUITE AT THE TWO AND A HALF FLOOR.
UH, THERE ARE ENTRANCES AT THE ENDS.
UH, THE BUILDING IS SET BACK WITHIN 10.
THERE, THERE'S ONLY ONE OTHER BUILDING ON THE BLOCK FACE, AND IT'S ABOUT 30 FEET FROM THE CURB.
WE'RE ABOUT A LITTLE OVER 20 FEET FROM THE CURB.
SO WE ARE WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE CURB LINE.
I MEAN, EXCUSE ME, 10 FEET OF THE PREVAILING BLOCK FACE.
UH, MATERIALS ARE BRICK, WOOD, UH, MODULAR BRICK, REAL BRICK, 4, 3, 5, 8 INCHES THICK.
UM, AND WITH THAT, I'M GLAD TO ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR ANY
UM, WILL, WILL OUR OTHER SPEAKER ALSO BE SPEAKING OR, OR EVEN JUST ANSWER QUESTIONS? WE DO NEED HIM TO, UM, INTRODUCE HIMSELF AND HE WILL NOT BE SINCE I'M OKAY.
THEN IT'S TIME FOR COMMISSIONERS TO COME FORTH WITH THEIR QUESTIONS.
REMEMBER WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO HELP HIM GET THIS.
MR. MCFE, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
ONE IN PARTICULAR HAS TO DO WITH THE, UM, UH, THE LIGHTS AND THE DOORS THEMSELVES.
IF THOSE COULD BE, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THOSE BEING CLOSER TO THE PROPORTION OF, UH, OF THE WINDOWS? IN OTHER WORDS, MAYBE IT'S, UH, UH, THREE VERTICAL STACKED.
AND THEN WHAT WERE YOU CONS? WHAT WERE YOU CONSIDERING FOR THE, THE HANDRAIL AT THE, UM, AT THE UPSTAIRS BALCONY? 'CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S AT THE SILL HEIGHT OF THE, THE WINDOWS, WHICH IS PROBABLY GONNA BE ABOUT A FOOT OR 18 INCHES LOWER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.
IT'D BE ABOUT SIX INCHES LOWER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.
UM, THAT NEEDS TO BE A THREE FOOT RAIL THERE.
THE WINDOWS WILL PROBABLY BE A 30 INCH SILL HEIGHT.
[01:10:01]
UM, WE WOULD COME IN SIDE OF THE BRICK, UH, WITH A ANOTHER RAIL TO TAKE UP THE ADDITIONAL SIX INCHES PLUS OR MINUS THAT WE WOULD NEED.BUT WE WOULD VERY MUCH WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE LINE OF THE BRICK IN THE COPING THERE.
THAT WOULD BE THE PREDOMINANT THING.
WE, WE WOULD SUBMIT A DETAIL ON THAT.
UM, AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION WOULD BE THE SUPPORT OF THE, THE RAKES ON THE GABLES.
UM, I, I KNOW WE DON'T TYPICALLY SEE THE EXTENDED BEAM LIKE THAT.
USUALLY IT'S EITHER A BRACKET OR, OR NOTHING AT ALL.
UM, WHAT WAS THE, WAS THAT FROM A HISTORIC REFERENCE OR CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT? NOT PARTICULARLY
I THINK IT COULD BE A BRACKET YOU'RE STUDYING THAT, THAT'S NOT A SPECIFIC, UH, UH, THAT'S NOT A DETAIL WE HAVE FULLY DESIGNED YET.
I THINK THERE MAY BE THAT OVER ON MARCELLUS AND SOME OF THE EXAMPLES, BUT WE WEREN'T TRYING TO EMULATE ANYTHING THERE.
UH, IT COULD END UP BEING A BRICK AND IT COULD END UP BEING NOTHING.
THE TASK FORCE FELT THAT NOTHING WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
SO THAT CERTAINLY IS SOMETHING WE WILL CONSIDER.
CAN, CAN WE SHOW WHERE THE PARKING ENTRANCE IS FOR THE RESIDENCE? YES.
THIS IS ACTUALLY AN OLDER RENDERING, UM, TO THE, OKAY, THERE WE GO.
SO YOU CAN, WE WOULD COME IN OFF THE ALLEY AND THEN TURN RIGHT OFF THE ALLEY TO REACH INTO THE PARKING, SO THAT, INTO THE PARKING GARAGES.
YEAH, SO YOU WON'T SEE ANY GARAGE DOOR FROM THE STREET.
COMMISSIONER, CHAIRMAN, DIDN'T YOU HAVE YOUR MICROPHONE ON? I DID, BUT I WAS THINKING MAYBE I'D JUST WAIT FOR THE, YOU KNOW, FINAL DESIGN.
BUT I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE FRONT ENTRANCE TO THE CENTER UNIT.
UM, I ASSUME THAT THERE'S JUST GONNA BE THE ONE DOOR, THERE ARE AN OFF-CENTERED.
IS THAT, SO THAT IT DOESN'T, UM, LOOK AS A MAIN ENTRANCE TO A GIANT, YOU KNOW, AS, SO IT DOESN'T COME ACROSS AS A, A MAIN ENTRANCE TO ONE ENTIRE BUILDING.
SUPPOSED TO HAVE MORE OF A PRIVATE FEEL.
IT'S, IT'S INTENDED TO BE MORE OF A PRIVATE DEAL.
IT ALSO WAS RESOLVING SOME PLAN ISSUES THAT WE HAD, UH, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GET A FULL BEDROOM, A PROPERLY SIZED BEDROOM DOWN THERE.
WE DO SEE THAT BEING SOME SORT OF DECORATIVE, UM, MATERIAL DOWN THERE THAT WE WILL SUBMIT PERHAPS A TILE THAT RELATES TO SOME OF THE TILE THAT YOU SEE ALONG MARCELLUS IN SOME OF THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS, A GLAZED TILE.
BUT WE HAVEN'T FINALIZED THAT YET.
AND I, I DO WANNA ADD THAT I'M VERY RELIEVED AND, UM, PLEASED TO SEE THAT YOU'VE BEEN RECRUITED TO BRING THE, THE INSPIRATION AND THE, THE DESIGN TO THIS SITUATION.
BECAUSE WHAT CAME BEFORE US BEFORE THERE, THERE, THERE, THEY WEREN'T TAKING ANY CUES FROM THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE DISTRICT.
WELL, WE, WE ACTUALLY SUBMITTED, UH, FOR A, UM, COURTESY REVIEW ON THE PROJECT YOU LOOKED AT JUST BEFORE THIS ONE.
SO WE'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS STRIP OF, UH, THIS, THIS CORRIDOR FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW.
BUT WE'RE DELIGHTED TO BE INVOLVED WITH THIS.
UH, THANK YOU MR. SEL FOR DOING A GREAT JOB OF LOOKING AT, UH, WHAT'S IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I LOVE THE, UH, STUDIES THAT YOU SHOWED WITH THE DIFFERENT IMAGES OF OTHER MULTI-FAMILY BUILDINGS IN THERE.
AND I, I HAD ANOTHER QUESTION, JUST LIKE COMMISSIONER SHERMAN ON THE ENTRANCE.
UM, MARCUS, IF YOU COULD GO TO THE, UH, FACADE DRAWING, NOT THE PERSPECTIVE ELEVATION.
SO ONE OF MY ISSUES WITH THE ENTRANCE THERE IS EVERYTHING IS VERY SYMMETRICAL IN THIS DRAWING.
AND THEN YOU HAVE AN OFFSET DOOR, WHICH HAS KIND OF CALLED MY EYE RIGHT TO THAT.
AND I KNOW THERE'S SOME ISSUES WITH THE INTERIOR PLAN WITH TRYING TO GET THAT BEDROOM IN THERE.
AND I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE IF THERE COULD BE A FALSE FIXED DOOR THAT COULD BE INSTALLED THAT WOULDN'T OPEN BUT WOULD, WOULD MATCH THAT DOOR, UM, SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE SOME SYMMETRY THERE.
AND IT WAS THE SAME THING ABOVE WITH THE, UM, UH, THE DOOR THAT OPENS ONTO THE BALCONY.
UM, IT JUST KIND OF THROWS ME OFF AS WELL, UH, FROM THIS VERY SYMMETRICAL FACADE THAT YOU HAVE, UH, GOING ON.
UM, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE ON THE SECOND FLOOR WOULD BE A LITTLE EASIER BECAUSE THAT'S ALL ONE OPEN SPACE, BUT MAYBE THAT CENTRAL WINDOW BECOMES A, A GANGED FRENCH DOOR AND THEN THE FRENCH DOOR ON THE OTHER SIDE JUST BECOMES A WINDOW.
UM, THAT COULD BE A POSSIBILITY THERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
[01:15:01]
BUT THE FIRST FLOOR WOULD BE A LITTLE HARDER TRYING TO GET AROUND THAT IF TRYING TO WANT TO TRY TO MAKE IT MORE MAKE, UH, SYMMETRICAL.WELL, WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT THAT.
WE'LL, WE'LL NOTE THE CONCERN.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK TO YOU AND WE'LL, WE'LL LOOK AT THAT, UH, COME BACK TO YOU WITH A MORE DETAILED AND A LARGER SCALE VIEW OF WHAT THAT CENTRAL ENTRY WOULD LOOK LIKE.
UM, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT ACCENTED HERE IN THIS VIEW BECAUSE THE DOOR IS JUMPING OUT AS A BRIGHT WHITE THING AND WHEN RE IN REALITY, IT'S RECESS FOUR OR FIVE FEET.
UM, SO I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE QUITE AS ASYMMETRICAL AS IT LOOKS OR WOULD BE QUITE AS APPARENT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE THINK THAT'S A SPECIAL NICHE IN THERE THAT WE HAVE SOME IDEAS ON HOW TO DEVELOP.
SO WE'D LIKE TO SUBMIT THOSE TO YOU TAKING THESE COMMENTS INTO, UH, ACCOUNT.
YEAH, I THINK IF YOU STUDY THAT SOME MORE A LITTLE CLOSER.
THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO BRING US BACK SOME MORE STUDIES ON THAT.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER ASPECTS OF THE BUILDING THAT COMMISSIONERS WANNA TALK ABOUT? OH, C*M YES.
UM, THANK YOU FOR BEING PART, BEING PART OF THIS.
THE ENTRYWAY AGAIN, THE SURROUND, IS THAT A BRICK KIND OF A ONE COURSE BRICK BUMP OUT SURROUND? UM, IT'S, OR THAT TRIM? WHAT, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT? WE, WE HAVEN'T FINALIZED THAT.
WE'VE GOT A MATERIAL THERE AND IT SHOWS PLACEHOLDER FOR NOW IT'S SHOWN, WELL, I MEAN, IT MAY END UP BEING CASTSTONE, WHICH IS A, A PRECEDENT MATERIAL IN THE CORRIDOR.
A RAIL OR THE BALCONY PARAPET.
SO THAT MIGHT END UP BEING, UH, A CASTSTONE TRIM.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT SURE YET.
SO YOU'LL BE ABLE TO TIE THAT IN TO THE COPING TOP OR, OR EVEN IF YOU HAVE CASTSTONE SEALS ON THE WINDOWS OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
SO YOU'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT THAT TO FINALIZE THAT.
AND YOUR HEADERS ARE, ARE YOU'RE, ARE YOU GONNA HAVE SOLDIER HEADERS, UH, THE WINDOWS OR, IT'S KIND OF, IT'S A BIT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, WE'RE WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT.
WE DO SHOW THOSE ABOVE THE SECOND FLOOR.
WELL, WE SHOW A, A HEADER COURSE ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AT THE SECOND FLOOR ABOVE THOSE WINDOWS FOR THE GROUND FLOOR OPENINGS.
UM, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PRECEDENCE WE GAVE, SOME OF THOSE DO HAVE SOLDIER COURSES ABOVE THE WINDOWS.
WE'RE, WE'RE KINDA LOOKING AT IT.
I APPRECIATE YOU BEING A PART OF THIS PROJECT.
WE'RE GLAD TO ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS NEED TO ADD ANYTHING THAT WOULD HELP BRING THIS PROJECT TO A PLEASING COMPLETION? WELL, WE'LL BE BACK.
THAT, WELL WE THANK YOU FOR COMING TO US FOR GETTING OUR PRELIMINARY VIEWS.
AS I SAID BEFORE, IT SURE HELPS EVERYBODY WHEN YOU DO THAT.
DOES THE FINAL THING FIGURED OUT AND WE'LL SEE YOU BACK SOMETIME.
I BELIEVE THAT OUR NEXT STEP WOULD BE DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER ONE.
AGAIN, I'M MARCUS WATSON PRESENTING FOR STAFF.
DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER ONE IS 46 0 9 WIRTH STREET IN THE PEAK SUBURBAN EDITION NEIGHBORHOOD HISTORIC DISTRICT CA 2 3 4 DASH 0 9 6 MW.
THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A TWO TWO-STORY, SINGLE FAMILY MAIN STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE AND AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON A VACANT LOT STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A TWO-STORY, SINGLE FAMILY MAIN STRUCTURE AND AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON A VACANT LOT BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH MATERIALS SUBMITTED 11 16 23 WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE EXPOSED FOUNDATION BE A MINIMUM OF 18 INCHES ABOVE FINISHED GRADE AND THAT THE WINDOWS AND DOORS BE ALL WOOD WITH NO CLADDING REFLECTIVE GLASS OR TINTING IMPLEMENTATION OF THESE RECOMMENDATION RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SECTION FOUR, PERTAINING TO NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS.
THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS.
A LENGTHY DISCUSSION WAS HAD REGARDING THE HEIGHT OF THE WINDOWS, GIVEN THAT MOST TUTORS HAVE CEILINGS LOWER THAN 10 FEET.
WE MET IN THE MIDDLE WITH WINDOW HEIGHTS.
ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION WAS HAD REGARDING THE LACK OF FENESTRATIONS ON THE EAST ELEVATION.
AND THE TASK FORCE FELT STRONGLY
[01:20:01]
THAT THIS WALL NEEDED TO BE BROKEN UP, BUT THERE WAS NO CLEAR COMPROMISE AVAILABLE.NOTE, FENCES AND LANDSCAPINGS WERE NOT PART OF THIS APPLICATION.
HOWEVER THEY APPEAR ON THE PLAN APPLICANT TO REMOVE THE FENCE DETAILS FROM THIS PLAN, THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
SITE PLAN MARK AN ADDITIONAL SETBACK MEASUREMENT FROM THE SIDEWALK FOR EASY CONFIRMATION DURING INSPECTION.
MATERIALS NEED TO SUBMIT DETAILS REGARDING CASTSTONE FOUNDATION.
MUST BE A MINIMUM OF 18 INCHES ABOVE FINISHED GRADE FRONT ELEVATION.
THE 2050 WINDOW ON THE FIRST FLOOR TO THE LEFT OF THE FRONT DOOR SHOULD ALSO HAVE THE DIAMOND PATTERN.
THE 2060 WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR SHOULD BE 2050.
THE 30 70 WINDOWS SHOULD BE 30 60 REAR ELEVATION.
THE 2060 WINDOWS SHOULD BE 30 60 TO IMPROVE THE SOLID TO VOID RATIO WEST ELEVATION.
THE 30 70 WINDOWS ON THE FIRST FLOOR SHOULD BE 30 60.
THE 30 50 WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR SHOULD BE 30 60 EAST ELEVATION.
THE 30 70 WINDOWS SHOULD BE 30 60.
REMOVE THE CURRENT 2040 WINDOWS FROM THE FRONT OF THE FIRST FLOOR AND INSTEAD PLACE 1 30 60 IN THE AREA THAT IS CURRENTLY BETWEEN THE TWO TWO 2040S.
INSUFFICIENT FENESTRATION EXISTS ON THE FRONT HALF OF THE SECOND FLOOR.
WE RECOMMEND THAT THE APPLICANT EXPLORE OPTIONS FOR INCREASING FENESTRATIONS IN THIS AREA, GARAGE CENTER, THE GARAGE DOOR WITH THE GABLE, AND MOVE THE ENTRY DOOR TO THE SIDE ELEVATION IN ORDER TO IMPROVE SYMMETRY AND AESTHETICS, UH, WITH THE TIMBERS ABOVE.
AND WE HAVE SPEAKERS SIGNED UP FOR THIS ONE.
THE FIRST OF WHOM IS LEAH KAGAN.
OH, THERE YOU ARE IN REAL LIFE.
YOU KNOW THE DRILL NAME AND ADDRESS.
WE ACTUALLY HAVE FOUR SPEAKERS REGISTERED FOR THIS ONE.
CHARLES, YOU'RE RIGHT, I CAN'T COUNT.
MY, UH, THE PROPERTY ADDRESS IS 46 0 9 WORTH MINUS 47 28 VICTOR STREET.
SO I'VE LIVED IN PEAKS EDITION SINCE 2018 AND I'M ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION BOARD.
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARE R EMPTY LOTS.
AND SO I DECIDED TO PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS AND BUY AN EMPTY LOT IN THE HISTORIC REGION TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IN A WAY THAT WE WANT TO.
AND WHAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT IS SECTION FOUR OF OUR HISTORIC ORDINANCE, 4.7.
NEW CONSTRUCTION AND CONNECTIONS BETWEEN NEW AND EXISTING CONSTRUCTION MUST BE DESIGNED SO THAT THEY ARE CLEARLY DISCERNIBLE FROM THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURES AS SUGGESTED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR AND PRESERVATION BRIEF.
NUMBER 14, A CLEAR DEFINITION OF THE TRANSITION BETWEEN NEW AND EXISTING CONSTRUCTION MUST BE ESTABLISHED AND MAINTAINED.
OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS DOMINATED BY CRAFTSMAN AND PRAIRIE HOMES AND ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SEEMS TO BE SOME VERSION OF A PRETTY BASIC CRAFTSMAN.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN MUCH EASIER AND MUCH CHEAPER TO DO ANOTHER CRAFTSMAN, BUT I DECIDED NOT TO BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOP IN A WAY WHERE IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE TRACKED HOUSING, WHERE IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE SAME HOMES OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
AND SO IN, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS HISTORIC ORDINANCE, I CHOSE THE TUTOR REVIVAL STYLE AND WE'VE MET WITH MARCUS BEFORE ACTUALLY SUBMITTING PLANS.
AND WE'VE CONTINUED TO MAINTAIN THIS DIALOGUE, INCLUDING WITH TASK FORCE, SO THAT WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER A HISTORICALLY ACCURATE PRODUCT THAT ALSO WILL IMPROVE THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND PREVENT THAT SAME COOKIE CUTTER OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
SAME THING THAT, THAT CRAFTSMAN AND PRAIRIE LOOK SEEMS TO BE DOMINATING IN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION.
I, I CAN USE MORE TIME IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN WALK THROUGH THE PLANS, BUT I HAVE MY ARCHITECT HERE, CHARLES RALPH, I HAVE MY DESIGNER AND NEIGHBOR WHO ALSO HAS MULTIPLE PROPERTIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
LIZ GIBSON AND MY, UH, PROJECT MANAGER, HEAD CONSTRUCTION, ADAM LARSSON HERE AS WELL.
SO WE'RE ALL HERE AND HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT Y'ALL HAVE FOR US.
AND EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO OPEN WITH, WE NEED EACH SPEAKER TO COME DO THE NAME AND ADDRESS THING.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHO'S IN ORDER ON MY LIST.
NOT TO REJECT YOU OR ANYTHING.
HELLO SIR, I SAW YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
I LIVE AT 800 EXPOSITION AVENUE IN DALLAS, TEXAS.
AND YOU PROMISED TO BE VERY TRUTHFUL WITH US.
[01:25:01]
OH, I PROMISED TO BE TRUTHFUL.YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES IF YOU'D LIKE TO, UM, INFORM US OF SOME THINGS.
WELL FIRST OF ALL, UH, WE DID THE COURTESY REVIEW WITH MARCUS.
WE MADE CHANGES BASED ON THE TASK FORCE AND UH, WE'VE HEARD SOME COMMENTS EARLIER TODAY AS WE WERE HERE EARLIER.
AND, UH, BASICALLY JUST UH, REALLY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS, UH, CONCERNING YOUR CONCERNS.
WE'LL HAVE QUESTIONS FOR EVERYBODY.
WE'LL GO THROUGH AND INTRODUCE EACH SPEAKER BEFORE WE DO THAT.
SO LIZ GIBSON NEEDS TO COME TELL US WHO SHE IS.
I LIVE AT 48 21 VICTOR STREET.
UM, AND ALSO AM WORKING ON THE INTERIOR DESIGN OF THIS PROJECT.
VERY TRUTHFUL INTERIOR DESIGNER.
UM, SO I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO ECHO LEAH'S SENTIMENT A LITTLE BIT.
UM, DISCUSSING, UM, AS A NEIGHBOR AND SOMEONE THAT HAS A BUSINESS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S VERY EXCITING TO SEE THE PROSPECT OF ONE OF THE OTHER, UM, ARCHITECTURAL STYLES OF HOMES THAT'S INCLUDED IN THE ORDINANCE.
UM, TO REALLY REFLECT THE ARCHITECTURAL DIVERSITY I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS.
UM, I PLEASE ALREADY TOUCHED ON IT, A LOT OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, WHILE EX EXECUTED VERY NICELY, I DON'T THINK IT DOES A GREAT JOB OF REPRESENTING THE DIVERSITY THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS ITSELF.
AND I'M SURE, AS YOU ALL KNOW, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD'S BEEN, UH, UNFORTUNATELY I GUESS VICTIMIZED BY A TON OF, UH, DEMOLITIONS AND MULTIFAMILY TAKEN OVER THROUGHOUT THE, UH, LAST COUPLE DECADES.
SO, UH, THAT'S ABOUT ALL I HAVE, BUT OBVIOUSLY AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
AND NOW ADAM LARSSON CAN STEP FORWARD.
ADAM LARSSON 6 4 5 9 TRAMMEL DRIVE IN DALLAS AND I PROMISE TO SPEAK THE TRUTH.
UM, AS LEE MENTIONED, I'M A BUILDER.
I HAVE, UH, WORKED ON SEVERAL PROJECTS IN HISTORIC AND CONSERVATION AREAS THROUGHOUT DALLAS AND PERSONALLY LIVED IN THE
UM, APPRECIATE WHAT YOU GUYS DO AND WHY WE'RE HERE.
SO I'M ALSO HERE JUST TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR ME.
HANG ON AS WE COME UP WITH QUESTIONS.
'CAUSE WE HAD SEVERAL EARLIER AND CONCERNS.
SO COMMISSIONERS, NOW THEY'RE ALL ASLEEP, RIGHT? COME ON.
UM, NO, JUST HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THE FRONT ELEVATION IN PARTICULAR ON THE, ON THE PORCH, THE STACKED PORCH AND THE WIDTH OF THE COLUMNS IN PARTICULAR.
UM, IT WAS JUST A LITTLE CONCERNING FOR ME, THE WIDTH OF THE, THAT RELATIVE, THE WIDTH OF THE OPENING RELATIVE TO THE WIDTH OF THE HOME ITSELF.
UH, AND I'D LIKE TO FEEL A LITTLE BIT MORE NEAT ON, ON THE SIDES THERE.
SO IT FEELS LIKE IT'S, IT'S STRUCTURALLY PROPORTIONAL.
UM, THE OTHER THING I WAS WONDERING IS HOW THOSE, UM, UM, THE CASTSTONE AT THE, THE, HOW THE HEADERS ARE SUPPORTED.
I KNOW YOU'LL NEED A STEEL LENTIL, BUT, AND, AND THAT, THAT CASTSTONE IS FOUR INCHES THICK, BUT I'M, I WASN'T SURE WHERE THE SUPPORT WOULD BE FROM IT.
'CAUSE I WOULD HATE THE, THE LENTIL TO COVER UP THE CASTSTONE SO THAT SOMEHOW IT ATTACHES TO THE BACK OR IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
IF YOU COULD ADDRESS THOSE TWO, ADAM.
SO, UH, WE MIGHT HAVE TO DO A DOUBLE LENTIL ON BOTH SIDES.
UH, WE CAN DO A CHANNEL THROUGH THAT CAST STONE, UH, TO RECESS THAT.
SO YOU'RE NOW GONNA SEE THAT LENTIL ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF IT.
UH, WOULD BE MY PROPOSAL FOR THAT.
YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT THAT? OKAY.
UH, IT'S A LITTLE, IT IS JUST A DRAWING AGAIN, BUT IT'S A LITTLE DECEIVING.
THE CAST STONE'S PART OF THE WIDTH OF THE BRICK, SO IT'S A LITTLE WIDER THAN IT LOOKS IN THE DRAWING, BUT ACTUALLY THERE WOULDN'T BE A HUGE ORDEAL TO WIDEN THE COLOR.
MAYBE THE WIDTH OF THE BRICK, UM, ADDITION, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.
DID HAVE ONE OTHER THING TOO ON, UM, ON THE SIDE ELEVATIONS.
UM, I KNOW YOU USED THE, THE DIAMOND PATTERN IN THE, UH, IN SOME OF THE WINDOWS, BUT I NOTICED THAT THE DIAMOND WAS TURNED HORIZONTALLY IN A FEW OF THOSE.
UM, COULD THOSE ALL BE THE SAME PROPORTION? OH, I SEE.
I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE THAT
[01:30:01]
I ALSO EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THE SIZE OF THOSE LARGE OPENINGS ON THE FRONT.THEY'RE SORT OF LARGE, LARGE OPENINGS
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TUDOR IS LIKE THE GOTHIC, UH, AN HOMAGE TO BACK WHEN THEY HAD TROUBLE BUILDING WITH STONES.
SO THEY, THEY COULDN'T HAVE THOSE, THOSE QUITE SO BIG AND THEY DID LIKE TO HAVE THE, THE SOLID WALLS KIND OF LIGHT TO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE LOOK OF IT.
BUT THOSE ALMOST, I MEAN, THE CORNERS ALMOST TOUCHED THE TRIM OF THE ROOF.
DO THEY HAVE TO BE QUITE THAT LARGE? THEY JUST SEEM OVERSIZED FOR THE, UM, OVERALL SHAPE IN WHICH THEY ARE STUCK.
SO WE WERE, WE WERE HERE THIS MORNING AND WE HEARD THE COMMENTS AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT OVER THE LUNCH BREAK AND, AND WE THINK THAT IT'S AN EASY SOLUTION TO JUST WIDEN THE COLUMNS SO THAT THERE IS A MORE SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THAT BRICK.
AND WE'RE CLOSING THAT OPENING BY HOW MUCH ARE YOU THINKING THERE? 'CAUSE THEY KIND OF HAVE THE PROPORTIONS OF A GARAGE DOOR.
I'M NOT BEING MEAN, THEY JUST LOOK LIKE GARAGE DOORS TO ME.
SMALL GARAGE DOORS, BUT, WELL, NO, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, IT'S AN EASY SOLUTION.
THE REASON IT'S KIND OF LIKE THIS IS SO THAT COLLINS DIDN'T GET INTO THE DOORS AND WINDOWS AND WHEN THEY MADE US CHANGE THE DOORS ALL TO DOORS DOWNSTAIRS AND WE KEPT THE DOORS AND WINDOWS UPSTAIRS.
SO THAT'S ALL IT REALLY DOES BECAUSE LOOKING AT THE DRAWING, THE PORCHES ARE BACK.
SO IF WE WI WIDEN THOSE STRUCTURES, IT'S NOT GONNA AFFECT REALLY ANYTHING ON THE FACADE.
IT JUST, IT'LL, IT'LL JUST SUBSTANTIATE YOUR POINT.
AND THEN ALSO DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE HOUSE IS ONLY 32 FEET WIDE, ROUGHLY 31 FEET WIDE BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO 10 FIT OR MORE FOR THE DRIVEWAY TO GO TO THE GARAGE, IT MAKES THE PROPORTIONS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
THEY, THEY ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
AND ANY INTEREST AT ALL IN MAKING THE SHAPE OF YOUR DOOR MATCH YOUR TUDOR ARCH TO THE ENTRY.
IT'S SO GORGEOUS WHEN YOU MAKE A TUDOR SHAPE DOOR.
WE ACTUALLY TOTALLY, LIZ AND I LOOKED AT DOORS JUST LIKE THAT.
SO, UH, IT'S, I I I AM NOT MARRIED TO THIS DOOR OR ANY ONE PARTICULAR FRONT DOOR, SO LONG AS IT'S LOVELY LOOKING
AND, AND ULTIMATELY THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I CARE ABOUT.
SO I'M, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
IT'S, IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY THE ORDINANCE, IT'S JUST I LIKE IT.
ALRIGHT, LET'S HEAR FROM COMMISSIONER EO
WELL, I, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER RNA FROM MONTGOMERY ON THE SIZE OF THE OPENING.
UM, I KNOW THIS IS A, A, A NEO TUTOR IN DESIGN.
IT'S NOT A STRICT TUTOR, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING ON THAT, THAT SECOND FLOOR RECESS BALCONY, YOU DON'T NORMALLY SEE THAT ON A TUTOR HOME ON A SECOND FLOOR.
YOU WILL SEE IT ON, ON A FIRST FLOOR, HAVING A LARGE OPEN PORCH.
WAS THERE SOME DESIGN INFLUENCE OF THAT OR REASON FOR DOING THAT? IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT? YES.
THE TWO, SO FROM A REASON PERSPECTIVE THAT FRONT FACES THE PARK, THIS BEAUTIFUL PARK, AND IT ACTUALLY FACES RENEE'S GARDEN, WHICH IS A MEMORIAL GARDEN FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO WAS A PIONEER IN, IN KIND OF MAKING THE NEIGHBORHOOD REALLY WHAT IT IS TODAY.
AND SO, UH, I I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE REALLY LOVELY AND ENJOYABLE TO SIT IN THE MORNING, UH, ON MY PORCH AND LOOK OUT ONTO THAT GARDEN.
SO FROM A FUNCTIONAL PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S WHY WE WANTED THAT LARGE BALCONY THAT WAY FROM A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, IT NEEDED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE LOOK OF A TUTOR.
AND SO THE, THE IMAGE THAT MARCUS HAD SHOWN EARLIER THIS MORNING, UH, THE TUTOR THAT'S ON SWISS AND CAROL HAS THAT SORT OF LARGER PIECE THAT ABUTS OUT.
AND SO EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A BALCONY AS OPPOSED TO AN ENCLOSED WINDOW THAT ABUTS OUT, IT'S, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THAT FEEL OF THE TUTOR ABUTTING OUT PIECE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
I WAS GONNA ASK YOU TO PULL THAT UP, MARK, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT KIND OF BALCONY TOP THING, RIGHT? THAT ABUTS OUT.
SO THAT WAS SORT OF THE DESIGN INSPIRATION TO GO WITH THE FUNCTIONAL DESIRE OF THE GARDEN.
AND I'LL SPEAK AGAIN AS IT WAS PART OF THE VIEW TO THE, A LOT OF THE HOUSE FOCUSES ON THE PARK ACROSS THE STREET, AND THEN ALSO WHEN WE WIDEN THE COLUMNS, WE COULD LOWER THE HEADER SO THAT PORCH WOULD BE LESS IMPOSING.
I, I, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE, YOU KNOW, THE DESIGN INSPIRATION, THE, UM, THAT FRONT PORCH IS COMING OUT.
IT'S, IT'S OPEN ON THE SECOND FLOOR WHERE YOURS WAS ENCLOSED IN RECESS.
SO THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS, UM, RIGHT THERE.
ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, AND FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK YOU.
I THINK YOU DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF FINDING A TUTOR DESIGN THAT KIND OF FITS THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THE MATRIX CONCERN I HAVE IS, AGAIN, WITH THE, THE TWO OPENINGS, THE DOUBLE PORCH, IT APPEARS THE, THE FENESTRATIONS, THE WINDOWS AND DOORS ARE VERY CROWDED.
IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S ALMOST ENTIRELY GLASS AND TO FIT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BETTER, THIS BEING
[01:35:01]
A TUTOR INTO THE OTHER HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK IF YOU WOULD LIMIT MAYBE TWO, THERE'S TWO FRENCH DOORS UP AND DOWN, IT WOULD FIT THE NEIGHBORHOOD BETTER BECAUSE THERE'S NO PLACE ELSE IN THE HISTORIC HOUSE THAT HAVE ALL OF THAT GLASS, UH, FOUR FRENCH DOORS TOGETHER.SO THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IS HAVING A LITTLE MORE, MORE WALL SPACE AND A LITTLE LESS GLASS, THE CONCERNS.
SO THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED, UH, EXTENSIVELY WITH TASK FORCE.
AND ORIGINALLY IT WAS NOT THE DOUBLE FRENCH DOORS.
IT, IT, IT WAS JUST LONG WINDOWS ON EITHER SIDE OF A SINGLE SET OF CRUNCH DOORS.
BUT BECAUSE THE WINDOWS WERE SO LONG, THEY ACTUALLY WERE NOT PARTICULARLY HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE.
AND SO THE HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE SOLUTION WAS THE DOUBLE CRUNCH DOOR TO DO SMALLER WINDOWS, SORT OF THEN DESTROYS THE LOOK OF THAT OPENNESS THAT LETS YOU OUT ON THE PARK.
SO THAT, THAT FIRST FLOOR IS THIS ENCLOSED LARGE PORCH THAT OPENS OUT ONTO THE PARK FOR ENTERTAINING.
AND ALSO JUST FOR A MORE OPEN FEEL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A BIG GIANT BRICK SQUARE IN BETWEEN TWO CRAFTSMEN THAT HAVE OPEN PORCHES.
SO AS PART OF THE DESIGN WAS TO TRY AND CREATE MORE OPEN AND FLOW AND CLEAN EYE LINES FROM NOT JUST FRONT TO BACK, BUT SIDE TO SIDE AS WELL.
BUT IT JUST SEEMS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF GLASS AND THAT'S NOT TYPICAL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO HAVE, GENERALLY THERE'S ONE OR TWO FRENCH DOORS GOING ONTO A PORCH AND THAT AND JUST AN ENTIRE WALL OF GLASS SEEMS A LITTLE MUCH FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
COMMISSIONER RENO HAS SOMETHING ELSE TO ADD.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO HASN'T GOTTEN TO SPEAK YET THAT WANTS TO I HAVE A QUESTION.
OH, WAS THAT YOU COMMISSIONER TI HEARD, YES, PLEASE.
LET LET YOU GO FIRST SINCE YOU HAVEN'T HAD ATTORNEY YET.
UH, IT'S REALLY A QUESTION FOR MARCUS, I GUESS.
UH, AND GOING THROUGH THIS, UH, AND LISTENING TO THE COMMENTS THAT THESE FOLKS ON THE COMMISSION THAT KNOW MUCH MORE THAN I DO, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WE'RE INVENTING THE DESIGN FIT INTO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND BOTH WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, AND CONDITIONS.
IT, IT WAS, IT SOUNDS ALL REALLY IN READING AS THOUGH WE'RE ASKING FOR A REDESIGN OF THIS PLAN.
AND SO I'M NOT QUITE UNDERSTANDING WHY STAFF IS SAYING APPROVAL AS LONG AS THEY DO ALL OF THIS TO REDESIGN.
SO I I JUST WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME FEEDBACK.
THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS ACTUALLY NOT REDESIGNED.
IT'S JUST SIMPLY TO REINFORCE THAT THE, UH, THE DOORS AND WINDOWS WILL BE ALL WOOD AND THAT THE FOUNDATION HAS 18 INCHES OF CLEARANCE ABOVE THE FINISHED GRADE, WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED WITH THE APPLICANT.
SO IT'S JUST ABOUT REINFORCING THAT FROM THE STAFF STANDPOINT.
SO YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT THEN STAFF IS NOT ENDORSING WHAT THE TASK FORCE HAS RECOMMENDED? NO, WE ARE, WE ARE IN, WE ARE IN AN AGREEMENT WITH THE TASK FORCE.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE OWNER AND THE ARCHITECT TOOK WHAT THE TASK FORCE SAID AND HAD.
AND THE PLANS THAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY VIEWING REFLECT ALL THE CHANGES THAT WERE REQUESTED BY THE TASK FORCE? YES.
THE CURRENT PLANS DO REFLECT ALL OF THOSE CHANGES AND ALL THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
WE HAD A LENGTHY TASK FORCE MEETING AND THEN A LENGTHY MEETING AFTERWARDS AND RESUBMITTED.
AND SO WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS THE RESUBMITTED DESIGN BASED ON TASK FORCE.
I I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE, THE, THE CONFUSION BECAUSE THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION WAS VERY LENGTHY.
UH, SO THE ANSWER IS THAT THE APPLICANT DID TAKE ALL OF THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS AND RESUBMITTED A NEW DESIGN.
ALRIGHT, SO MY LAST COMMENT WAS ON THE, YEAH, THANK YOU.
LAST COMMENT IS ON THE, THE PROPORTION OF THE CHIMNEY ITSELF, UH, THAT, UM, THE DEPTH OF IT OR THE WIDTH THAT APPEARS FROM THE FRONT ELEVATION.
'CAUSE THE FIREPLACE ACTUALLY RUNS, YOU KNOW, PARALLEL WITH THE PERPENDICULAR TO THE STREET.
SO IT JUST SEEMS PROPORTIONAL THAT THE FIREPLACE THAT THE CHIMNEY WOULD AS WELL.
[01:40:01]
BUT IT LOOKS IN PLAN, IT LOOKS PRACTICALLY SQUARE.IN FACT, MAYBE EVEN HANG OUT FARTHER THAN THE FIREPLACE DOES TO THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE.
ALL I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT IT GETS NARROWED FROM THE FRONT.
THAT ONE, IT WAS APPARENTLY EASY
UM, ALRIGHT, IF THERE ARE NOT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I'M GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR A MOTION.
AND OF COURSE WE'VE DISCUSSED A LOT OF FAIRLY SMALL CHANGES WE'D LIKE TO SEE AND THE PERSON WHO MAKES THE MOTION MUST CONSIDER WHETHER WE CAN DO AN APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS AND ADEQUATELY DESCRIBE OUR CONDITIONS OR WHETHER WE HAVE TO DO A DENIAL, A NICE DENIAL THAT SAYS, COME BACK WITH A PLAN THAT, THAT CONSIDER SOME OF OUR ISSUES.
SO PUT YOUR THINKING CAPS ON AND FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF MOTION YOU'D WANNA MAKE AND HOW YOU'RE MAKE IT.
COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, WELL THAT WAS QUICK THINKING.
MAYBE THIS WOULD BE OUR MOTION MAKER, BUT I WAS THINKING, I'M BRAINSTORMING THAT, THAT PERHAPS A MOTION COULD OUTLINE, UM, SOME STATEMENT THAT SAYS THAT THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE THE OPTION OF, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FRONT DOOR BEING AN ARCHED, UH, A GOTHIC ARCH FRONT DOOR AS OPPOSED TO THE ONE THAT'S SHOWN HERE.
I MEAN, THE ONE THAT'S SHOWN HERE IS APPROVAL THE TOOTH, THEN THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE THE, WELL, THEY HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS, BUT WE KNOW OUR ATTORNEYS HAVE TOLD US BEFORE THAT IT JUST, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE JUST PUT SUGGESTIONS IN, THAT'S OKAY.
BUT THEY'RE NOT LEGALLY BLINDING SORT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I'M PERSONALLY VERY EAGER TO APPROVE THE, UM, I'M EXCITED ABOUT THIS SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT IN PEAK SUBURBAN.
I APPLAUD YOU FOR THE DETAILS AND THE VISION.
SO COMMISSIONER RENO, SHE KIND OF VOLUNTEERS TOO,
LEMME GET BACK TO THE ADDRESS.
UM, 40, UH, THE ADDRESS KNOWN AS 46 0 9 WORTH STREET, UM, ALSO KNOWN AS OR, UH, CASE, UH, CA 2 3 4 DASH OH NINE SIX.
UH, MW THAT, UM, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE FOLLOW, UM, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, APPROVE WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT, UM, THE FRONT PORCH COLUMNS OVER THE DINING ROOM AND THE UPSTAIRS BEDROOM, UH, BE WIDENED, UM, TO BETWEEN EIGHT INCHES, THE WIDTH OF ONE MODULAR BRICK OR UH, 12 INCHES OF A BRICK AND A HALF.
AND THAT THE WIDTH OF THE, UM, FIREPLACE CHIMNEY, UH, I KNOW THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT CHIMNEYS.
IT'S THE, THE TALLEST ONE, UH, UH, PASSING THE, THE PEAK OF THE ROOF, UM, BEING NARROWED BY, UM, 12 INCHES TO 18 INCHES AND THAT THE MULIAN ON THE WEST ELEVATION, UM, ON THE LEFT ELEVATION BE, UH, ALL ORIENTED VERTICALLY RATHER THAN, UH, A COMBINATION OF HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL.
UM, AND, UM, THAT'S MY, THE FINAL CONDITION.
OH, AND THAT THE FRONT DOOR BELIEVE THIS AS AN OPTION, BUT OKAY.
IF I CAN MAKE THE COMMENT, ACTUALLY WHEN THE, ALL THE COMMENTS CAME BACK, I KNOW READING IT SOUNDED LIKE A LOT, BUT I WAS VERY PLEASED THAT THIS WAS ALL THERE WAS BECAUSE I'VE HAD MUCH WORSE
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A MOTION COMMISSIONER RENO AND A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.
IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION OTHER THAN ABOUT THE WONDERFULNESS OF A NICE TUTOR POINTED DOOR, SOLD
ANY OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? OKAY.
IT APPEARS YOU HAVE, UM, WON OUR UNANIMOUS APPROVAL AND, UM, WHEN IT'S DONE, YOU CAN INVITE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I'M FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO YOU CAN INVITE THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD OVER.
AND MEASURE HOW BIG THE COLUMNS ARE.
YEAH, WE'RE GONNA COME CHECK IT OUT.
OKAY, NEXT STEP GOING IN ORDER IS D TWO AGAIN, I'M MARCUS WATSON PRESENTING ON, ON, UH, BEHALF OF STAFF.
ITEM NUMBER TWO IS 26 16 STATE STREET IN THE STATE THOMAS HISTORIC DISTRICT CA
[01:45:01]
2 3 4 DASH 0 9 5 MW.THE FIRST REQUEST IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW ONE STORY EDITION ON THE SOUTHWEST SIDE OF THE MAIN ORIGINAL HOUSE.
AND REQUEST NUMBER TWO IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY EDITION ON THE REAR AND NORTHEAST SIDE OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.
RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW ONE STORY EDITION ON THE SOUTHWEST SIDE OF THE MAIN ORIGINAL HOUSE BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH MATERIALS SUBMITTED 11 2 23 WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE ROOF LINE, ROOF SLOPE, EAVE HEIGHT, SIDING, SKIRTING, TRIM, SOFFITS, FASCIA, AND ALL OTHER DETAILS EXACTLY MATCH THE ORIGINAL INCLUDING MATERIAL AND THAT THE WINDOWS FACING THE STREET ARE, ARE WOOD WINDOWS MOVED FROM THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRE PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SECTION 51 P DASH 2 25, UH, 1 0 9, A TWO, A THREE, A NINE, A 11, A 14, AND A 16.
THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARD STAFF.
RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEM NUMBER TWO THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY EDITION ON THE REAR AND NORTHEAST SIDE OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH MATERIAL SUBMITTED 11 2 23 WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE SIDING MATERIAL TRIM AND DETAILS ON THE NORTHEAST SIDE WHERE IT MEETS THE HISTORIC PORTION OF THE HOUSE BE IDENTICAL TO THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE.
THAT THERE BE A VERTICAL TRIM BOARD REPRESENTING THE REAR OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND ITS TRANSITION TO THE REAR L NEW PORTION OF THE ADDITION THAT THE SIDING PROFILE OF THE REAR PORTION OF THE ADDITION MATCH THAT ON THE ORIGINAL STRUC FRONT STRUCTURE AND THAT THE WINDOWS BE ALL WOOD WITH NO CLADDING.
IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SECTION 51 P DASH 2 25 1 0 9 A TWO, THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN AT ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT IT BE APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS, UH, ONE RETAIN ORIGINAL ROOF, RIDGE AND EVE LINES ON FRONT.
HISTORIC SECTION REMOVE NON-CONTRIBUTING DORMERS ON FRONT L SIDING.
REPLACEMENT SHOULD BE LIMITED ONLY TO ROTTEN WOOD.
ESTIMATED PERCENTAGE SHOULD BE PROVIDED.
CEMENTITIOUS SIDING ON REAR EDITION BUT NOT SIDE EDITION IS FINE BUT MUST MATCH THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND PROFILE.
THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO-STORY EDITION IN THE REAR BE APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS, ORIGINAL ROOF, RIDGE, AND EVE LINES ON FRONT.
HISTORIC SECTION REMOVE NON-CONTRIBUTING DORMERS IN FRONT L SIDE FRONT L SIDING REPLACEMENTS SHOULD BE LIMITED ONLY TO ROTTEN WOOD.
ESTIMATED PERCENTAGE SHOULD BE PROVIDED.
CEMENTITIOUS SIDING ON REAR ADDITION BUT NOT SIDE ADDITION IS FINE, BUT MUST MATCH THE ORIGINAL HOUSE IN PROFILE.
ALRIGHT, AND WE HAVE A SPEAKER FOR THIS ONE.
SO PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOUR PROMISE OF, UH, TELLING THE TRUTH.
JAY PASZKOWSKI 1, 1 5 1 4 GATESVILLE DRIVE, SCO TEXAS.
PROMISE TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
WE MIGHT NOT NEED THE WHOLE TRUTH, JUST
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT ANYTHING TO US, UH, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES? YES, PLEASE.
UH, MARCUS, I NOTICED THAT IT'S, IT'S A LARGE FILE, SO SOME OF THE IMAGES AREN'T LOADING.
IF YOU COULD PLEASE, LIKE, IF IT'S NOT LOADING, JUST SCROLL UP AND DOWN, LIKE ONE PAGE TO ANOTHER AND THEN LIKE, LIKE THERE'S A GOOD EXAMPLE RIGHT THERE.
OH, I THINK IF YOU GO BACK AND FORTH TO THAT SAME SLIDE THAT SHOULD POP 'EM UP.
IT, UM, WELL KIND OF KINDA HAS TO DO WITH CONNECTION AND WHAT YOU HAVE.
UM, HOPEFULLY WE'RE ABLE TO GET SOME OF THESE IMAGES UP.
IT WAS DOING THAT DURING THE, UH, BRIEFING EARLIER.
ARE Y'ALL ABLE TO HEAR ME? DO I NEED TO SPEAK INTO THIS MORE? LET ME TRY SOMETHING A LITTLE.
UM, THIS MIGHT WORK A LITTLE BETTER.
UH, JUST STARTING HERE AND, AND THEN I'LL UH, ASK YOU WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU MOVE.
UM, SO BASICALLY OUR, OUR OVERALL OBJECTIVES FOR THIS PROJECT PROJECT ARE TO, UH, WORK WITHIN THE ORDINANCE AND WORK WITHIN STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEN ALSO TRYING TO BALANCE THAT WITH WHAT THE NEW HOMEOWNERS WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THE PROJECT.
UM, WE WERE CAREFULLY TRYING TO REALLY TREAT THE,
[01:50:01]
UH, THE ADDITIONS IN, IN, UH, A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS.O OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE COHESIVE WITH THE FRONT AND, UH, AND MORE VISIBLE ADDITIONS AND THEN DO A LITTLE BIT MORE DELINEATION AND DEMARCATION WITH THE REAR ADDITIONS AND WHAT IS NOT VISIBLE, UM, IN SPEAKING WITH, WITH MARCUS AND STAFF AND WITH, UM, THE TASK FORCE THAT THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A, A A, A DANCE AND A BALANCE BETWEEN WHERE ADDITIONS ARE, UH, MORE APPROPRIATE TO BE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE HISTORICAL AND ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND WHERE IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE APPROPRIATE TO TRY TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CO COHESIVE.
SO, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS TOUCHED ON EARLIER TODAY THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A VERTICAL TRIM BOARD ON THE SIDE EDITION THAT'S OVER HERE ON THE RIGHT.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD, UM, WE'LL GET INTO THE QUESTIONS HERE IN A MINUTE, BUT THAT, THAT, THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE WE WERE THINKING MORE OF THE, THE VISIBLE AND FRONT ADDITIONS BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE COHESIVE.
AND THEN, UH, THE, THE BACK AND REAR ADDITION AND LESS VISIBLE ADDITIONS TO BE A LITTLE BIT, UH, LESS COHESIVE AND MORE, UM, MORE DELINEATED.
IF YOU COULD, UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.
SO THIS, THIS SITE PLAN HERE SHOWS YOU WHAT, UM, WHAT BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE DOING, THE, THE, THE SITE PLAN ON THE LEFT IS, OR WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING THE SITE PLAN ON THE LEFT WOULD BE THE EXISTING, THE SITE PLAN ON THE RIGHT WOULD BE OUR PROPOSED SITE PLAN.
UH, IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE, IN THE BRIEFING EARLIER ON, UH, ON, ON ADDITION AND, AND HOW MUCH WE'RE INCREASING.
AND IF YOU SEE THE GREEN SHADED AREA ON THE LEFT, THAT'S THE ACTUAL HISTORICAL FOOTPRINT.
AND THEN THAT GRAY, WHICH IS BOTH OF THOSE COMBINED ARE THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT RIGHT NOW AS IT SITS.
BUT THAT GRAY WAS ADDED ONTO THE ORIGINAL AND HISTORICAL STRUCTURE.
AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT 118% INCREASE WITH THAT ADDITION.
AND FOR WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, I KNOW IT LOOKS MASSIVE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SIDE ELEVATIONS, BUT, UM, IT'S, AND IT IS, IS THAT MY THREE MINUTES? OH, MAN.
CAN I REQUEST A LITTLE BIT MORE PLEASE? I'D LIKE TO GIVE THE APPLICANT TWO MORE MINUTES.
I, I, I'M, I'M GONNA SAY I WAS TIMING HERE AND WITH THE, TRYING TO GET THE PRESENTATION AT UP AND RUNNING, WE KIND OF SHORTCHANGE HIM SOME TIME, SO I WOULD MOVE TO GIVE HIM THREE MINUTES, BUT
WHAT IS THAT? YEAH, I, I PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF GIVING THE SPEAKER THREE MORE MINUTES.
I THINK YOU HAVE THREE MORE MINUTES.
UH, SO BASICALLY YES, WITH THE, THAT WAS A 118% INCREASE BASICALLY WITH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE OF THE HISTORICAL VERSUS WHAT WAS ADDED ON AS THE HOUSE SITS RIGHT NOW, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS 157% INCREASE.
AND I KNOW I'M GONNA GET A QUESTION WITH THOSE, SO I'LL WAIT TO GIVE THOSE ACTUAL VALUES ONCE I GET THE QUESTION AND I'LL, I'LL MOVE ON FROM THERE.
BUT SO IT, IT, IT, AND IT IS A, IT IS LARGE, LARGE ADDITION, BUT OUR, OUR OVERALL GOALS HERE WERE TO REALLY, AND WE'VE INCLUDED, IF YOU COULD GO DOWN TO THE, UM, THE, THE, YEAH, THERE WE GO.
THIS IS THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AND THEN THIS RIGHT HERE, OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT A SIDE ELEVATION, YOU SEE THE, YOU KNOW, THE SIZE OF THE, OF THE ADDITION AND IT KIND OF AMPLIFIES THAT A LITTLE BIT.
AND WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE, WE'VE CREATED A COUPLE, UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE HEIGHT PLANE DIAGRAM IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO INCLUDE.
UH, YOU KNOW, AND YOU CAN SEE FROM THE HEIGHT PLANE, AND THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME UP IN TASK FORCE THAT, THAT KEEPING THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AT THE SAME HEIGHT WE HAD ORIGINALLY PROPOSED RAISING THAT RIDGE LINE TO HIDE IT MORE IN THE FRONT ELEVATION.
UM, BUT YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE VIEWS THAT YOU REALLY DON'T GET A SENSE OF THAT.
AND IF YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND SKIP AHEAD TO, I THINK IT'S THE THIRD SLIDE FROM THE END THAT HAS THE, UH, UM, YEAH, THIS RIGHT HERE, A FIELD OF VISION STUDY.
SO BASICALLY WHAT WE ARE FOCUSING ON HERE IS, UH, MASSING THE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES AND THEN SEEING WHAT YOUR FIELD OF VISION IS OF THIS ADDITION FROM A 45 DEGREE IN A 60 DEGREE ANGLE.
AND, UM, ON, ON THAT LEFT SIDE WHERE WE HAVE THE LARGE VICTORIA, LARGER VICTORIAN STRUCTURE, YOU'VE GOT ABOUT A FIVE FOOT WINDOW AT, AT 60 DEGREES WHERE YOU CAN REALLY ACTUALLY SEE THE SIDE ADDITION.
AND, UH, ON THE, ON THE OTHER SIDE, WE ARE PROPOSING THAT ADDITION TO COME OUT TO THE FRONT AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE WORKING TO MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A COHESIVE ADDITION.
AND THAT ACTUALLY BLOCKS OUR, UH, REAR ADDITION ALTOGETHER, UM, FROM 35, OR I'M SORRY, 45 DEGREE AND A 60 DEGREE ANGLE.
SO THAT, UH, I, I KNOW THAT THERE'S GONNA BE SOME FOCUS AND, AND ATTENTION IN ON A LOT OF QUESTIONS ON THE SIDE ELEVATIONS.
BUT MY ONE REQUEST HERE IS THAT WE JUST REALLY KIND OF, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT OUR INTENTIONS AND OUR, OUR GOALS HERE WERE REALLY TO
[01:55:01]
PRESERVE THE OVERALL LOOK OF THE STRUCTURE FROM THE STREET VIEW AND FROM THE VISIBLE VIEW.SO WHILE IT, IT DOES REALLY LOOK AMPLIFIED ON THE SIDE ELEVATIONS, UH, WE'VE INCLUDED AS MUCH AS WE CAN HERE TO SHOW YOU THAT THIS IS, UH, SOMETHING THAT WE'VE TREATED VERY CAREFULLY.
UM, I GOT SOME TIME LEFT HERE.
UH, ANO, A LAST THING I DIDN'T THROW IN HERE IS I, WE DID, WE ARE PROPOSING A BASEMENT AND I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT COMES INTO THE DISCUSSION, BUT, UM, THAT, THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE I HAVE TOO.
AND, AND I'LL BE READY TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THAT THAT COVERS EVERYTHING THAT I REALLY HAD FROM, FROM THE PER INITIAL.
I'M SURE THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS, SO, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO ARGUE ABOUT THE TIME BECAUSE YOU HAD ENOUGH.
WHO HAS QUESTIONS FOR OUR SPEAKER OR FOR STAFF? I GOT A QUESTION FOR STAFF COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS.
UM, I MIGHT BE MISSING SOMETHING, BUT I'M NOT SEEING THE ON THE FRONT ELEVATION, THE PY LASTER, UH, NOT PY LESTER, THE, UM, THE LITTLE, UH, LOW WALL BRICK, LOW WALL THAT WITH THE COLUMN ON IT INTO THE NEW DESIGN.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S A, THAT'S IS THAT NOT ORIGINAL? THAT IT'S NOT ORIGINAL? AND THAT'S A, THAT IS ACTUALLY AN EXAMPLE AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO GET TOO MUCH INTO THE RESTORATION PART BECAUSE WE ARE DOING THAT, UH, FROM A ROUTINE MAINTENANCE STANDPOINT, THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO TAKE AWAY THE BRICK PLANTS THAT ARE NOT ORIGINAL AND THEY HAVE AN ORIGINAL COLUMN THAT THEY'RE GOING TO REP REPLICATE THE REST OF IT.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN KNOWN TO NOT BE ORIGINAL.
AND THE, UH, THE, THE STEPS AS WELL, THIS, THE ARE THE STEPS ARE REMAINED THEY'RE THE SAME, THE STEPS ARE CORRECT, YES.
THE STEPS WERE MAINTAINING, IT'S THE COLUMNS AND UH, AND THEN WE'RE MAINTAINING THE BLES.
YEAH, THE COR THE BLES, UM, ARE ORIGINAL.
THEY GIVE THE, THEY GIVE THE OBVIOUS IN INDICATION WHERE THE ORIGINAL POSTS WERE, SO IT WILL LINE UP.
OH, ARE ARE YOU DONE MR. CUMMINGS? OH, YOU, YOU WERE THINKING AND WE WERE WAITING TO SEE COMMISSIONER RENO.
UM, YEAH, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THE, ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, UH, OF THE PLAN.
YOU ARE IN FACT, UM, RE-SKINNING THE, THE, THE GABLE THAT'S JUST THE PAST ON THE, OR JUST PAST THE, THE FORWARD PROJECTING GABLE ON THE, UH, ON THAT ELEVATION? CORRECT.
AND, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE, WHERE WE WERE REALLY IN A, IN A LITTLE BIT OF THAT IN-BETWEEN OF THE ADDITIONS OF WANTING IT TO BE COHESIVE AND THEN ALSO WANTING THERE TO BE SOME DELINEATION THERE.
SO, UM, IF, IF WE WERE TO JUST STRAIGHT ADD THERE, THEN THIS, SINCE THIS IS VISIBLE AND YOU COULD SEE IT IN THE, IN THE FIELD OF VISION STUDY THAT I, THAT WE DID THAT IT, IT WAS AFTER, AFTER TALKING WITH STAFF AND TALKING WITH THE TASK FORCE, IT WAS OUR INTERPRETATION THAT IF WE COULD LEAVE THAT GABLE AND THAT SIDE THE SAME THERE, BUT NOT STEP, THE JUST WAIT AND STEP, THE, THE ADDITION OUT IN THE BACK THAT IT WOULD JUST CALL MORE ATTENTION TO THE ADDITION IF WE, IF WE TREATED THAT DIFFERENTLY.
SO THAT'S WHY WE, WE'VE DONE IT THE WAY THAT WE'VE DONE IT.
SO IT WAS A, IT WAS A MITIGATING WAY TO, 'CAUSE IN FACT YOU'VE MADE AN ADDITION ONTO THE OLD HOME MAKING THAT LOOK LIKE THE ORIGINAL, RIGHT? CORRECT.
WE'VE EXTENDED THAT GABLE OUT AND THEN FROM THERE IT, IT DOES, IT IS A, A CLEAN FACE.
IT GOES BACK CONTINUOUS FACE THERE.
WE'VE, WE'VE EXTENDED THAT GABLE TO GIVE THAT LINE.
SO THAT'S KIND OF OUR, UM, BASICALLY WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE WOULD BE DOING ON THE FRONT WHERE WE'RE JUST DOING A VERTICAL PANEL.
IT'S, IT'S KIND OF OUR LINE OF WHERE THE, THE ADDITION STARTS.
BUT, BUT TRYING NOT TO CALL TOO MUCH ATTENTION TO IT.
SO MAYBE A VERTICAL ELEMENT RIGHT THERE, SOMETHING MIGHT, MIGHT MAKE THAT MORE APPROPRIATE.
AND THEN, UM, I REALIZE ON THE, YOU'VE EXTENDED THE GABLE ON THE, THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AS WELL, BUT THAT FELL IN THE SAME PLANE AS THE, THE FRONT PORCH OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.
UM, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO STEP THAT BACK 12 INCHES TO 18 INCHES TO, TO, SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND THE ADDITION? SO THE BLUE NEXT TO THE GREEN, IF THAT WAS 12 INCHES OR 18 INCHES BACK, UH, SO THEY, THEY WEREN'T CO-PLANNER.
IF, IF WE COULD, IF, IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT WE COULD DO TO CREATE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, ARTICULATION ON THE FACE OF THE BUILDING, THAT WOULD BE PREFERABLE.
'CAUSE THAT THE, THE FOOTPRINT WOULD IT, IT'S, THAT'S THE, THE FAMILY ROOM, RIGHT? SO IT WOULD KIND OF JOG THE, THE MIDDLE OF THE FAMILY ROOM.
BUT UM, IF THERE WAS ANY WAY THAT WE COULD ACHIEVE THAT, THAT ARTICULATION THROUGH THE FACE OF THE, OF THE STRUCTURE, THEN THAT WOULD BE, UM, MUCH MORE PREFERABLE FOR WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
[02:00:01]
RIGHT.I, I THINK OUR PREFERENCE, UM, AND SOMEBODY ELSE MIGHT, UM, ARGUE BUT THAT, THAT STEP BACK ACTUALLY HAPPENED ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE ROOF LINE.
SO YOU WOULD SEE A, A DEFINITE BREAK IN BETWEEN OLD AND NEW THERE.
'CAUSE JUST STEPPING OR JUST PUTTING A VERTICAL OR JUST, YOU KNOW, BARELY STEPPING THAT BACK WITHOUT BREAKING THE ROOF TOO.
UM, I THINK YOU REALLY NEED BOTH TO, TO HELP MAKE THAT DEFINED.
UH, AND AT LEAST ONE FOOT THEN IS A VERY MINOR CHANGE ON THE INSIDE.
IT DOESN'T REALLY AFFECT YOUR FURNITURE PLACEMENT AND SO FORTH.
UM, BUT ANYWAY, THAT I WOULD, WAS JUST HOPING THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTOOD.
AND, AND WE'RE AT THIS POINT, I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE TOTALLY OPEN TO EVERYTHING.
I'VE, I'VE BEEN GETTING, UH, THROUGH THE PROCESS A LOT OF, OF WANTING IT TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE MATCHING AND COHESIVE ON THE FRONT AND VISIBLE AREAS, AND THEN A LITTLE BIT MORE DELINEATION AND DEMARCATION AS YOU'RE REQUESTING.
SO IF THE CONSENSUS IS THAT WE NEED THE DEMARCATION, THEN WE'LL MAKE IT WORK.
AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE RESTORING THE, THE FRONT COLUMNS.
IT'S SO, IT LOOKS SO MUCH NICER.
BY TAKING OUT THOSE, UH, THE DOT COLUMNS AND THE, IT WAS FUN.
THIS, YOU KNOW, UNCOVERING THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN PARTS OF THE PROJECT WHERE WE'VE BEEN UNCOVERING WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, HISTORICAL AND WHAT'S NOT.
AND THAT WAS FUN WORKING BACK AND FORTH WITH MARCUS ON THAT.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS PACKAGE, BUT SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP BEING APPRECIATIVE OF THE RESTORATION, THEY'RE RESTORING ALL OF THE WINDOWS.
THEY'RE GONNA BE NO REPLACEMENTS OF THE EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS ON THE FRONT PORTION OF THE HOUSE.
AND THEY EVEN FOUND INSIDE THE HOUSE WAS THE ORIGINAL FRONT DOOR, WHICH WILL GET RESTORED AND REPLACED.
ALRIGHT, ONCE AGAIN, EVERYBODY TO THE RIGHT WANTS TO TALK.
AND IS THERE ANYBODY AT HOME THAT'S TRYING TO GET A WORD IN? COMMISSIONER HENI, WE'RE GONNA LET YOU GO BEFORE THIS ROLL.
ARE, UH, I NOTICED THAT YOU ARE, YOU SEEM TO BE PROPOSING REMOVAL OF THAT BIG FRONT TREE, UH, DESIGNING A NEW, UH, ENTRANCE WITH STEPS UP AND THEN REPLACING THAT BIG FRONT TREE WITH A SLIMMER, TALLER VERSION.
THAT, THAT'S JUST MY COMPUTER RENDITION OF THE TREE.
IT'S, WE, WE HAD NO, NO INTENTIONS OF TOUCHING THAT TREE AND WE WERE, WE WERE, UH, GONNA MAINTAIN THE WATERFALL STEPS, THE PATH AND THE STEPS UP TO THE FRONT PORCH EXACTLY AS THEY ARE.
AND, UM, ONE OTHER QUESTION ON THE ADDITION.
WHAT, WHAT IS EXACTLY IS THAT ADDITION COMPRISED OF? THAT'S GONNA BE THE, UH, ORIGINAL, SO WE'RE, WE, WERE GONNA USE THE ORIGINAL WOOD SIDING OVER THERE.
OBVIOUSLY WE'VE, WE'VE GOT, UH, SOME PERCENTAGES THAT WE'VE, WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT WITH, WITH MARCUS AND THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR ON OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO PRESERVE THERE.
BUT, UM, ALL THE WOOD SIDING THAT WOULD BE DEMOED FROM WHERE WE'RE ADDING ONTO THE HOUSE, WOULD, THE OVERALL INTENTIONS ARE THAT ALL THE, ALL THE WOOD SIDING THAT'S PRESERVED WOULD BE FOR THE FRONT AND VISIBLE PORTIONS OF THE FACADES.
ACTUALLY, WHAT I MEANT IS WHAT IS THE ADDITION GOING TO BE INSIDE? OH, OKAY.
SO THAT, THAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE THE FAMILY ROOM, THE, THE MAIN LIVING FAMILY ROOM AREA.
AND WHAT'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ADDITION OF, UH, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT ADDITION OF THE SIDE ADDITION? YES.
THE, THE REAR OF SIDE OR THE REAR? I THINK SHE'S JUST ASKING YOU, YOU'RE JUST ASKING JUST THAT SIDE ON, ON THE RIGHT PORTION WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE FRONT ELEVATION, CORRECT? YES.
THAT WOULD BE 208 SQUARE FEET.
THAT WOULD BE THE FAMILY ROOM? YES, MA'AM.
UM, NOW WE CAN GO TO WHO WAS FIRST, DO YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN? UM, I'D LIKE TO ECHO, UM, COMMISSIONER RENO'S CONCERNS ABOUT THE ADDITION ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
UM, I TOO FELT LIKE THAT ONE IS DRAWN, TENDS TO GOBBLE UP WHAT'S SPECIAL ABOUT THE FRONT FACADE, BUT EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T WRAP AROUND, IT DOES, I THINK, BORROW TOO MUCH FROM THE ORIGINAL FABRIC OF THE BUILDING.
AND, UM, IT DIMINISHES, IN MY OPINION, THE, UM, THE QUALITY AND THE NATURE OF THE PORCH.
UM, I THINK THE PORCH IS PROMINENT.
IN FACT, THIS HOUSE HAS COME BEFORE US MANY TIMES BEFORE GOING BACK TO LIKE 2019 AT LEAST.
AND, UM, WE WERE TOLD AT THAT TIME THAT IT WAS THE LAST PROPERTY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OF STATE THOMAS, THAT WAS STILL OWNED AND OCCUPIED BY A DESCENDANT OF THE ORIGINAL OWNERS.
SO WE'RE LUCKY THAT IT'S STILL HERE AND WE'RE GLAD THAT YOU CAME TO, YOU KNOW, UM, SAVE IT, ENHANCE IT, AND MOVE IT FORWARD.
BUT I, I THINK THAT THE, UM, THAT SIDE
[02:05:01]
ADDITION, I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT IT.I JUST THINK IT, IT'S BOTHERSOME TO ME FOR SOME REASON.
BUT I DO THINK THAT ITS IMPACT COULD BE DIMINISHED IF IT WERE RESET OR SET SIT STEP BACK, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST A FOOT 18 INCHES AND THEN IT WOULD NOT, UH, NOT BE COMPETING SO MUCH WITH WHAT'S SPECIAL ABOUT THE PROPERTY.
BECAUSE THERE'S A TENDENCY IN ST.
THOMAS TO NOT VALUE THE MORE MODEST HOUSE.
THIS ONE HONESTLY IS NOT THAT MODEST.
IT'S REALLY TO ME WHITE, UH, QUAINT AND CHARMAN.
AND SO, UM, I THINK BY HAVING, YOU KNOW, A LARGE ADDITION, GRANTED YOU CAN'T SEE THAT MUCH OF IT FROM THE STREET, BUT STILL THAT RIGHT.
THE ADDITION ON THE RIGHT TENDS TO I THINK, PUSH IT TOO FAR THE WRONG DIRECTION.
AND PERSONALLY, I ACTUALLY, IF THE PROJECT WERE TO INCLUDE IT, INCLUDE IT JUST LIKE DRAWN, I WOULDN'T SUPPORT IT UNLESS THAT WERE PART OF THE MODIFICATION TO IT.
SO, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S MY POSITION.
CAN, CAN I SPEAK TO THAT? YEAH.
SO, SO I, I THINK THAT WITH THAT STEP BACK, AND THEN ALSO LOWERING THAT RIDGE LINE OVER THAT IS GONNA REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
CAN WE JUST ADD THAT, YOU KNOW, COUPLED WITH THE FACT THAT YOU'VE GOT A DRIVE APPROACH AND A DRIVEWAY NOW THAT'S NOT GONNA GO ANYWHERE.
THAT TO ME IS A DISCONNECT RIGHT THERE.
I DON'T, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE LANDSCAPE RIGHT NOW, BUT YOU NO LONGER HAVE ACCESS TO, YOU KNOW, THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY.
HOW, HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU GET TO THE BACK NOW ANYWAY? YOU COME IN FOR MAIL Y YES, MA'AM.
AND IT, IT ACTUALLY ENDS RIGHT WHERE IT ENDS RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THE DRIVEWAY.
IT'S, IT'S, YOU JUST DRIVE UP AND IT STOPS RIGHT THERE.
AND THEN THERE WAS, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE LEFT WITH.
INSTEAD OF A, A FUNCTIONAL DRIVEWAY, YOU'RE LEFT WITH A PARKING PAD AND THE FRONT YARD.
AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
AND WHAT IT'S BEEN, THE, THE BACK ACTUALLY HAS A, IT HAD A REAR ENTRY SH GARAGE THAT HAS NOW BEEN DEMOED.
UM, I, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ECHO THE COMMENTS OF COMMISSIONER RENO AND SHERMAN THAT I AGREE THAT THAT ADDITION NEEDS TO BE SET BACK A FOOT, UH, OR 18 INCHES ON THE, ON THE RIGHT SIDE THERE.
SO IT'S NOT CONFUSED AS BEING PART OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, WHICH THE WAY IT'S DRAWN IN THIS, UH, RENDERING, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S PART OF THE ORIGINAL.
AND I AGREE THAT PORCH IS REALLY A VERY SPECIAL PORCH WITHOUT THOSE ITALIANATE DETAILS ON IT, NOW YOU PUT THE COLUMNS BACK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT REALLY HIGHLIGHTING THE PORCH AND UM, PUSHING THE ADDITION BACK A LITTLE BIT WILL REALLY HELP THE, THE FRONT FACADE.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID BY THE FORMER COMMISSIONER.
I THINK THAT THAT PORCH IS THE, THIS DEFINING THAT WILL PORCH IN THE CHIMNEY DEFINING FEATURES OF THE HOUSE AND WE'RE KIND OF CREATING A HOUSE THAT NEVER WAS.
AND IT, THE WHOLE SITUATION DOESN'T WORK THE WAY IT IS.
SO I AGREE IT NEEDS TO BE SET BACK A LITTLE BIT.
ALSO, IF YOU COULD GO TO THE LEFT ELEVATION PROPOSED.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND AT ALL WHAT'S GOING ON BETWEEN THE GREEN AND THE BLACK.
SO HOW ARE WE, WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THAT GABLE WITH THE TWO WINDOWS IN, IF THIS IN GREEN, HOW WILL THAT BE DELINEATED AS THE ORIGINAL HOUSE RIGHT NOW THAT IS BASICALLY JUST THE GABLE IS, IS WHAT IS DELINEATING THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT WAS, AGAIN, THAT WAS THE PORTION THAT I WAS, I WAS, UH, ADDRESSING WITH THE, THE FIRST GENTLEMAN THAT THERE WERE AREAS WHERE FEEDBACK WAS KIND OF, THAT, THAT SOME AREAS WE NEEDED TO TREAT A LITTLE BIT MORE CAREFULLY TO BE COHESIVE AND, UH, BLEND, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE'RE DOING OUR ADDITIONS AND SOME AREAS WE REALLY WANTED IT TO BE JUST A VERY HARD LINE DEMARCATION OF, OF IT.
AND UH, THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE AREAS WHERE, WHERE WE WERE WITH THE, THE LITTLE BIT OF FIELD OF VISION THAT YOU DO GET FROM THAT, IF YOU CAN, IF YOU SEE THAT IN THAT, THAT FIELD OF VISION STUDY, THERE'S JUST A, A LITTLE, A LITTLE PORTION THAT YOU, THAT YOU SEE OF THAT SIDE THAT, UM, IT WAS MORE THE INTENTION TO BLEND VERSUS, UH, TO HAVE IT HAVE IT STAND OUT.
OH, SO THERE IS NO, IF I PAINTED ALL THE GREEN WHITE ON THAT WALL, THERE WOULD BE NO, THE GREEN IS GONNA GO AWAY.
IF YOU COULD GO TO THE DRAWING, THE GABLE IS THE DEFINING YEAH.
IF YOU COULD GO TO THE ONE THAT SHOWS THE PURPLE LINE, THE, WHAT THE NEW CONSTRUCTION IS.
ON THAT SAME SIDE, I FIND MY EYES ARE RIGHT, THE PURPLE GOES ALL THE WAY TO HALF OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE ON THAT LEFT SIDE.
AND BY DOING THAT, WE'RE ERADICATING THAT GABLE, WE'RE, WE'RE BASICALLY BRINGING THE GABLE OUT TO, TO, TO GIVE THAT DELINEATION BETWEEN THE, WHERE THE, WHERE THE ORIGINAL GABLE IS AND WHERE THE NEW
[02:10:01]
ADDITION STARTS.SO WHY IS THERE NEED TO COVER UP THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WITH A FALSE WALL? WHAT IS, WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT? BECAUSE IF WE START THE GATE, IF WE WERE TO START OUR ADDITION JUST BACK THERE AT THE, UH, AT THE, THE, THE EAST CORNER OF, OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, IT'S BASICALLY, UH, GONNA STAND OUT.
IT'S GONNA STICK OUT FROM THE STRUCTURE AND IT'S GONNA STAND OUT MORE AS AN, AS AN ADDITION OVER THERE.
SO IF WE REMOVE THE PURPLE FROM THE ORIGINAL GREEN PART OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, THEN THE ORIGINAL GABLE WOULD BE STILL THERE, IT WOULD BE MORE PRONOUNCED, CORRECT? WELL, IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE TUCKED IN AND THE ADDITION WOULD COME OUT FROM IT.
SO I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD BE MORE PRONOUNCED, BUT, WELL, WELL MY CONCERN IS WE'RE TAKING A BEAUTIFUL OLD HOUSE AND WE'RE BASICALLY COVERING IT ALL UP WITH AN ADDITION ON ONE SIDE AND THEN THAT UNUSUAL LITTLE PIECE THAT GOES FROM THE BACK TO ALL THE WAY TO THE MIDDLE OF THAT.
SO WE REALLY, WE HAVE AN OLD HOUSE THAT'S JUST BEEN JUST GOBBLED UP BY SOMETHING ELSE.
I PROPOSED THAT WE REMOVE THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE OLD HOUSE AND LET THE ORIGINAL GABLE BE DELINEATED IN A FASHION THAT WE CAN LOOK AT THE HOUSE FROM THE SIDE AND SAY, OH, THERE'S, THAT'S THE OLD HOUSE.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WE FAILED AT THAT, THE SECOND INTERIOR STANDARDS, NUMBER NINE STATES, AND I ORDERED IT INTO THE RECORD.
NEW ADDITIONS, ALTERATIONS, EX, LEMME SORRY.
NEW ADDITIONS, EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS OR RELATED TO CONSTRUCTION SHALL NOT DESTROY HISTORIC MATERIALS THAT CHARACTERIZE THE PROPERTY.
THE NEW WORK SHOULD BE DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OLD AND SHALL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MASSING SCALE, SIZE, AND ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES TO PROTECT THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE PROPERTY AND ITS ENVIRONMENT.
IN MY OPINION, YOU HAVE FAILED ON THAT AND WE NEED TO FIX IT 'CAUSE THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION.
SO WE NEED TO DENY THIS AND COME BACK, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE MADE A GOOD EFFORT TO SAVE THE OLD BUILDING THE ADDITION, GOBBLES IT UP IN A WAY THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE.
HAVE I HAVE A QUESTION? UM, OKAY, HANG ON.
WERE YOU DONE, MR. ANDERSON? ALRIGHT.
UM, DID WE GET ANY I HAVE A QUESTION.
OKAY, LET, LET'S GO WITH COMMISSIONER OFFIT THEN.
WELL, I THINK WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, AND AGAIN THIS IS QUESTION IS FOR STAFF, IF I'M READING THE APPLICATION AND THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION BASED UPON WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO DO, THEN OUR, UH, CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE, UH, THAT THIS ACTUALLY DOES MEET THE CRITERIA OF THAT ORDINANCE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD CONS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING.
IS THAT CORRECT MARK? UM, THE STAFF REPORT IS BASED ON THE CRITERIA FOR STATE THOMAS HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND IT, IT DOES ALLOW FOR SIDE ADDITIONS.
THAT'S WHY OUR RECOMMENDATION WAS FOR APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS.
UM, A AGAIN, THAT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO AGREE WITH US, BUT THAT, THAT IS WHY, UH, WE SAID APPROVAL WAS BECAUSE SITE EDITIONS ARE ALLOWED IN THIS DISTRICT AND THAT WOULD COVER BOTH SIDES.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, COMMISSIONER? YES, MA'AM.
AND WE DO KEEP IN MIND THAT STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS USUALLY ADHERE TO THE STRICTEST FOLLOWING OF THE ORDINANCE THAT IS APPLICABLE AND ARE FOR OUR GUIDANCE AND OFTEN FOR US TO AGREE WITH, BUT ALSO FOR US TO SAY WE, WE, WE WERE WILLING TO STRETCH THINGS DIFFERENTLY OR, OR NOT.
UM, SO YOU WE'RE HEARING SOME LARGE CONCERNS AND I SHARE THE CONCERNS ON BOTH THE, UM, THE SCAB ON ADDITION TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE PLAN AS WELL AS THE FRONT.
I SHARE THOSE CONCERNS EXTREMELY.
UM, MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS, IS THERE ANY, UH, GIVE OR CHANGE OF DESIGN OR ARE YOU STANDING BY YOUR DESIGN TODAY? OR IS THERE ANY THAT'S, UH, IS THERE ANY APPROACHABLE, UH, ON THESE TWO CONDITIONS? 'CAUSE IT KIND OF SOUND LIKE YOU KIND OF PUT YOUR FEET A LITTLE BIT STRONGER ON THE GROUND ON BOTH CONDITIONS.
WELL, SO WHERE ARE YOU, WHERE ARE YOU AT THE MOMENT? AND, AND I, I'M A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE OWNERS AND FOR THE NEW OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY.
AND, AND OBVIOUSLY IT, IT'S, IT'S BEEN,
[02:15:01]
UH, IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WE'RE HERE IN THIS HEARING RIGHT NOW THAT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS, THESE TWO ISSUES, BUT IT, IT'S, IT'S REALLY THE OVERALL WHERE, WHERE THERE'S ALREADY BEEN.UM, I MEAN, IF, IF THEY HAD THEIR CHOICE, THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, DEMO THE HOUSE AND PUT SOMETHING ELSE UP IT, THAT WAS THEIR INITIAL THOUGHTS.
BUT THEN ONCE WE STARTED GETTING INTO THINGS AND IT, WELL, AND THERE, THERE'S JUST, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, UH, OF THINGS THAT WE'VE WORKED AROUND WITH THE EXISTING TO, TO TRY TO, TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY AND, AND WORK WITHIN THE ORDINANCE WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SITE ADDITIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED, BUT ALSO DO IT IN A WAY WHERE IT'S, IT'S, UM, REALLY PAYING RESPECT AND, AND, UM, TAKING A PROPERTY THAT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, NEEDING SOME HELP FOR A WHILE NOW AND MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT, THAT EVERYONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS PROUD OF AND, AND VERY HAPPY WITH.
SO THERE, THE, THE ROAD TO GET TO THIS MEETING RIGHT NOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF WORKING WITHIN AND, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF, OF, OF ITEMS THAT WE ADDRESSED JUST IN THE TASK FORCE MEETING WHERE WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A HIGHER RIDGE LINE TO KIND, UH, TRY TO CONCEAL THINGS.
AND WE, UM, WE, WE CHANGE THINGS, YOU KNOW, AROUND QUITE A BIT.
AND, AND WE'RE VERY RECEPTIVE TO THAT, TO THAT.
AND I KNOW THAT THE OWNERS ARE, AND, AND, UM, I'M, I'M DOING EVERYTHING THAT I CAN TO DELIVER TO THEM WHAT, WHAT WHAT THEY REALLY, UH, WOULD, WOULD LOVE TO DO.
AND, AND, AND REALLY, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S, THERE'S SOME CONCERNS, BUT, UM, THE OVER OVERALL WITH, WITH STAFF AND WITH WITH TASK FORCE WAS THAT EVERYBODY WAS EXCITED ABOUT WHAT WE WERE DOING AND, AND, AND APPRECIATIVE THAT WE WERE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT THAT WAS, UM, RE REALLY AN EFFORT TO, UM, TO, TO DELINEATE THE EXISTING WHERE WE'RE POSSIBLE AND THEN WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING THESE ADDITIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED IN, IN THE, UH, STATE THOMAS DISTRICT TO, UM, TO DO IT IN A WAY WHERE WE WERE DOING IT, UH, YOU KNOW, AS A, AND, AND OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY HAS, HAS HAD KINDA SOME DIFFERENT OPINIONS ALONG THE WAY OF WHERE THINGS SHOULD BE MORE DELINEATED VERSUS WHERE THINGS SHOULD BE MORE COHESIVE.
AND, UM, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO OUR BEST ALONG THE WAY TO, UM, TO, TO DANCE THAT LINE.
AND, AND, AND, AND, AND THEN TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION MORE DIRECTLY, UM, THERE ARE A COUPLE AREAS WHERE IT, IT'S GONNA MAKE IT HARDER FOR US TO DELIVER FOR WHAT THE HOMEOWNERS THAT, YOU KNOW, PAID, PAID A LOT OF MONEY FOR THIS PROPERTY AND PAYING A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD ARE, ARE WANTING TO ACCOMPLISH.
AND, UM, AND, AND THAT'S WHERE I'M TRYING TO DIG IN A LITTLE BIT DEEPER, YOU KNOW, AND, AND DRAW A LINE OF, OF WHERE I CAN STILL DELIVER FOR THEM AND DELIVER FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.
I, I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT, THAT THE FRONT RECESSING THAT AND, AND CREATING, YOU KNOW, A LOWER RIDGE LINE, THERE IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT COULD EASILY, YOU KNOW, HAPPEN.
UM, IT'S, IT'S MY MY HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ONE OR TWO PEOPLE THAT DISAGREE ABOUT THE ADDITION, THAT THAT THE OVERWHELMING, OR I'M SORRY, THAT THE, THE, THE OVERALL CONSENSUS AMONGST, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IS THAT, THAT WE'RE DOING, UM, DOING RIGHT BY THE, BY BY EVERYBODY FOR THIS.
SO YOUR POSITION IS, IS, UH, AS PRESENTED, UH, AS SUBMITTED, AND I SHARE THOSE STRONG CONCERNS BY MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
UM, TO ME, I EVEN HAVE EVEN STRONGER CONCERN ON EVEN IF THE ROOF AS WELL AS THE ADDITION WOULD BE SET BACK.
I STILL THINK THAT IS CHANGING THE LOOK, I MEAN, WE WE'RE LOOKING AT GUIDELINES AND, AND, AND HOW TO INTERPRET THE GUIDELINES AND THE, AND, UH, EVEN PRESERVATION CRITERIA, BUT I KNOW EVEN NATIONAL PARK SERVICE NUMBER 14, IT SAYS BASICALLY COMPATIBLE BUT DIS DISTINGUISHABLE DESIGN ADDITION SHOULD NOT BE SO DIFFERENT THAT IT BECOMES THE PRIMARY FOCUS.
I BELIEVE WHEN WE EXTEND THAT ROOF, WE'VE JUST, IT ALREADY CHANGED THE, THE OVERALL LOOK AND FOR A HUGE PART OF THE FRONT MASS WITH THE, WITH BASICALLY CONTINUING THAT LINE.
UM, I HAVE STRONG CONCERNS EVEN IF THE ROOF WAS SET BACK BECAUSE THAT ADDITION, I THINK IT WOULD BE EVEN MORE APPROPRIATE IN MY THOUGHT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD VOTE FOR IT, BUT JUST ON A FLAT ROOF JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT, UH, SWALLOWING UP THE FRONT FACADE AND THE HISTORIC PART OF THIS HOUSE.
NOT TO, NOT TO MENTION THE SCAB ON THAT OTHER SIDE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
SO I HAVE STRONG CONCERNS WITH SOME OF THESE FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
UM, I DID WANT TO ADD IN THAT COMMISSIONER TAYLOR HAD TO LEAVE DUE TO A CHILDCARE ISSUE, BUT HE HAS JOINED US BY VIA DISTANCE ON ELECTRONICALLY, WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS EASY TO DO, BY THE WAY,
SO, YOU KNOW, HE'S STILL, HE'S STILL HERE IN SPIRIT, IF NOT PHYSICALLY.
UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT THIS CASE THAT YOU WISH TO VOICE? AND I THINK WE'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED IT, THAT YOU'RE HERE, SIR, AS THE CONTRACTOR, UH, AS, AS AN EMPLOYEE AND THE OWNERS HAVE FINAL SAY OF
[02:20:01]
WHAT THEY'D BE WILLING TO YES, MA'AM.TO GIVE UP OF WHAT THEY PLAN IF, IF THAT WERE NECESSARY.
UM, I I DO WANNA CLARIFY SOMETHING.
DID I HEAR YOU SAY THAT THEY BOUGHT THIS HOUSE THINKING THEY COULD TAKE IT DOWN? I JUST WANNA KNOW, DID SOME SOMEONE SELL THEM THIS HOUSE AND NEGLECT TO MENTION THE KEY FACT THAT IT WAS IN AN IMPORTANT HISTORIC DISTRICT? NO, THEY, THEY KNEW THAT THAT, THAT THAT WASN'T GONNA BE THE CASE.
BUT, UH, THEY, THE POINT THAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT THERE IS THAT THERE, THERE, THERE REALLY HAVE BEEN BENDING, UH, OVER EVERY WHICH WAY THAT THEY CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING THIS PROJECT IN A WAY WHERE THEY CAN ACCOMPLISH WHAT THEY WANT TO ACCOMPLISH AND WHAT THEY NEED TO ACCOMPLISH.
AND, AND DO IT IN A WAY WHERE IT IS, IS BEING RESPECTFUL FOR EVERYBODY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ALL THE COMMITTEES AND EVERYTHING.
AND IF YOU WERE TO TAKE TO THEM OUR SUGGESTIONS THAT THE, THE SIDE EDITION BE PULLED BACK SO THAT IT DOESN'T SHOW SO MUCH AND THAT LITTLE WRAPAROUND PART WOULD HAVE TO MOVE BACK, THAT WOULD REDUCE SOME OF THE, THE EXPERT SPACE THEY'RE GETTING.
HOW DO YOU THINK, I MEAN, ARE THEY, WE CAN'T GO ANY SMALLER OR WOULD THEY BE CONSIDERED? I I BELIEVE THAT I COULD, I I COULD, UH, CONVINCE THEM OF THE, THE FRONT, UH, ONE, THE SIDE ONE.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY, THEY WOULD BE WANTING ME TO, TO DIG MY HEELS IN A LITTLE BIT ON THAT.
OKAY, WELL THANK YOU FOR BEING HONEST ABOUT THAT.
YOU'RE FREE TO TELL THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE INTRACTABLE AND EVIL AND STUBBORN.
NO, DON'T TELL THEM
SO NO ONE HAS ANY MORE QUESTIONS.
I DO, UM, WELL, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE PLAN, UH, RELATIVE TO THE ELEVATION MORE CLOSELY ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE IN PARTICULAR.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, THERE'S ATTIC SPACE UP ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT'S NECESS THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY BEING USED IN THAT IF WE WERE TO PUSH, I MEAN, EVEN JUST TO CHANGE THE SLOPE OF THAT ROOF FROM A THREE AND 12, WHICH IS ALMOST FLAT TO MORE VERTICAL AND MAYBE EVEN MATCHING THE, UM, THE EXISTING HOME, UM, THAT YOU COULD GET THAT WHOLE ELEVATION BACK AND CREATE A HYPHEN OR THE GAP IN BETWEEN THE OLD AND THE NEW.
YEAH, WE, THERE, THERE IS, BEFORE WE START OUR SECOND FLOOR ADDITION, THERE'S DEFINITELY A, UM, THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S ATTIC SPACE THERE.
UM, CURRENTLY WE'RE, YOU KNOW, PLANNING OUT SOME WALK-UP ATTIC SPACE AND HVAC STUFF THERE, BUT THAT, THAT COULD EASILY, UH, BE DONE.
THE, THE, AND AND THAT'S WHERE DISCUSSION OF ROOFLINE ACTUALLY CAME IN, IN DURING TASK FORCE.
AND WHEN I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT WITH MARCUS AND, AND IT'S JUST THAT VIEW THAT YOU DO, I'M SORRY, THAT VIEW THAT YOU DO HAVE FROM THAT, THAT, THAT, UM, THAT LEFT SIDE WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE ADDITION IT'S GOING TO, UM, WHERE NOW, YOU KNOW, IT DOES, YOU SEE THE ADDITION, THE HOUSE, OH, YOU KNOW, IT GOES BACK, IT, IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE, ALMOST LIKE YOU SEE A, AN ADDITION ABOVE A GARAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE IT'S JUST KIND OF STICKS OUT IN THE BACK.
UM, WE CAN, WE COULD MAKE THAT WORK.
IT'S JUST, UH, I THINK IT'S GONNA MAKE IT MORE OF A GLARING ADDITION.
I I THINK WE'VE LOST
IS THAT HER? IF YOU'RE AT HOME, PLEASE SAY SOMETHING.
OKAY, SO YOU'RE STILL HERE AND YOU STILL SEE ON THE SCREEN WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN, YOU KNOW, A PLAN? YES.
OKAY, WELL THE PLAN JUST WENT OUT.
OKAY, WE THOUGHT WE LOST YOU GUYS.
NO, NOW IF YOU'LL HIT, YEAH, THE MIC TURNED ON.
OKAY, NOW LET ME SEE IF I CAN SHARE AGAIN.
IT LOOKS DIFFERENT NOW, BUT WE'RE HERE
ISN'T THAT NICE? OKAY, WHERE WERE WE? WE, OH, WE ARE IN THE MEETING.
ALL TECHNICAL ISSUES HAVE BEEN SOLVED.
OKAY, WHERE WERE WE? I I'M SORRY.
I THINK YOU GUYS WERE JUST APPROVING
[02:25:01]
IT.THERE WAS SOME, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ROOF LINE.
SO BASICALLY THAT, THAT IS, THAT IS ATTIC SPACE THERE.
IT, IT, IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD, WE COULD MAKE THOSE ROOF LINES MORE LIKE THE EXISTING ROOF LINES, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE WANTING OR GIVE THAT MORE SEPARATION AND JUST KIND OF HAVE IT LOOK LIKE THERE'S A HOUSE BEHIND IT.
YEAH, THE, THE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MATCH THE, THE FIRST, UH, IT'S JUST TO PROVIDE A GAP BETWEEN OLDER AND NEW.
YEAH, WE COULD ABSOLUTELY DO THAT.
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS FEEDBACK BEFORE WAS ALMOST TO MAKE THEM LOOK MORE CONNECTING.
IF THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS, THAT MEANS SOMEONE HAS TO THINK OF A MOTION.
YOU HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, MR. ANDERSON, QUICK, ARE YOU THE ARCHITECTURE? YES, SIR.
I'M LETTING THEM THINK ABOUT IT FOR A MINUTE.
ARE YOU GUYS THE ARCHITECT AND CONTRACTOR OR JUST THE ARCHITECT? JUST ARCHITECT.
I THOUGHT YOU SAID CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTOR EARLIER.
I WAS TALKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR.
YEAH, I, I WAS MENTIONING SPEAKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF THE SIDING.
AND I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ON, UH, DISCUSSION ITEM TWO.
HAS 26 16 STATE STREET, UH, CASE NUMBER CA 2 3 4 DASH NINE FIVE MW THAT WE DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE, UM, WITH THE FINDING OF THE FACT THAT, UM, THE, LET'S SEE THAT THE ADDITION IS, UM, UM, UM, INCOMP OR INCOMPATIBLE.
SO NOW THAT THE, THE PROPOSED WORK IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH REGULATIONS CONTAINED IN THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
UM, AND THEN JUST FOR THE RECORD, I WANTED TO ADD THAT, UM, WE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE ADDITIONS ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, TALKING WITH STAFF AGAIN TO, UH, UM, TO MAKE THOSE MITIGATIONS THAT WE'VE SUGGESTED.
UM, AND I, I THINK YOU CAN HAVE AN APPROVABLE, UM, SUBMISSION AFTER THAT.
DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THIS? SECOND? SECOND.
MR. FOGLEMAN WAS THE FIRST COMMISSIONER FOGLEMAN.
ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
I'M MOSTLY CONCERNED WITH THE, THE GABLES ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT HAND SIDE.
HAVE THEY BEEN TOTALLY ANNIHILATED? YOU, YOU SHOULD COME BACK WITH A DESIGN THAT SHOWS THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT CAN EASILY BE SEEN FROM THE STREET AND THEN HOW THE ADDITION IS SUBSERVIENT TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE.
THAT THE ORIGINAL HOUSE SHOWS AS IMPORTANT.
AND THE ADDITION IS SUBSERVIENT TO THAT, MEANING THAT WALKING BY YOU NEED TO SAY, OH, I CAN SEE THE TWO GABLES ON THE SIDE AND THAT THE FRONT OF THAT SIDE IS NOTCHED IN SO WE KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THE OLD HOUSE IS.
MONTGOMERY, UM, I THINK THERE WERE TWO REQUESTS ON THAT ONE, RIGHT? UH, IS DENIED WHAT I PURCHASE BOTH OF THEM.
COMMISSIONER PRESI, WHO WAS FIRST? OH, GO AHEAD.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY I'LL SUPPORT THIS MOTION, UH, WITH ALL THE CONCERNS THAT WE'VE, WE'VE SAID, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT EASY OF A TASK TO GET THERE, BUT THAT'S MY OPINION.
I, BUT I WILL BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION TODAY BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THIS DOESN'T FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES OF BEING COMPATIBLE BUT DISTINGUISHABLE AND I THINK IT SWALLOWS UP THE ORIGINAL, UH, HISTORIC HOUSE, UH, IN THE MEASURES THAT ARE BEING UNDERTOOK AND REPRESENTED HERE TODAY.
I'M GONNA ALSO SUPPORT THE MOTION, BUT I ALSO WANT TO THANK YOU FOR WHAT'S NOT IN THIS APPLICATION THAT IS THE RESTORATION OF THE ORIGINAL PORTION OF THE BUILDING AND DESTROYING THE WINDOWS AND THE DOOR, BRINGING ALL THAT BACK.
I JUST WANT THAT TO BE RELAYED TO THE APPLICANT THAT WE DO APPRECIATE THEM GOING TO THAT LEVEL WHEN IT WAS NOT IN OUR REVIEW TODAY, BUT THAT WE APPRECIATE THAT.
I WONDERED WHY YOU WERE RAISING
[02:30:01]
YOUR HAND, BUT COMMISSIONER OFFIT, GO AHEAD.UM, I'M NOT GONNA SUPPORT THIS MOTION.
AND IT'S THE SAME THING MANY TIMES WHERE AN APPLICANT HAS MET WITH THE TASK FORCE, HAS MET WITH STAFF, HAVE MADE THEIR CHANGES, THEY GET TO US, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE WANT TO REDESIGN OR REINTERPRET, UM, CRITERIA.
AND THE STAFF HAS ALREADY TOLD US AS THE TASK FORCE SHOWED THIS, THESE CHANGES THAT THEY MADE ACTUALLY DO MEET THE GUIDELINES, UH, BOTH OF THE DISTRICT AND THE CITY AND STATE, NATIONAL, WHATEVER.
AND I JUST THINK IT'S A REAL DISSERVICE TO THE CITY AND TO THE CITIZENS FOR US TO CONTINUE TO REDESIGN AND FORCE THESE APPLICANTS TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT WHEN THEY'VE DONE EVERYTHING THEY'VE DONE AND THEY'VE DONE EVERYTHING THE CITY HAS ASKED THEM TO DO.
SO I'LL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER OFFIT AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT WE DO MUST REMEMBER THAT THE STAFF, THE TASK FORCE AND THE LANDMARK COMMISSION ARE THREE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EVALUATION, OF PROPOSED PROJECTS THAT MAY BRING DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS AND DIFFERENT SKILL SETS AND DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS.
AND SO THAT WE KIND OF HAVE ALL THREE SO THAT WE GET A LOT OF VIEWPOINTS.
UM, AND SO THAT MIGHT BE WHY, WHY SOME OF US, UM, ARE LESS BOTHERED BY THIS TYPE OF OCCURRENCE THAN THAN IT BOTHERS YOU.
BUT I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM AND YES, WE DO ALL APPRECIATE THAT THE PURCHASES OF THIS HOUSE HAVE TAKEN SUCH PAINS TO WANT TO MAKE THE COLUMNS NICE AND, AND AND, AND REALLY RESPONSIBLE HISTORIC PRESERVATION, BUT BEING LESS NICE.
I HAVE TO JUST POINT OUT THAT IF YOU BUY A SMALL OLD HOUSE AND YOU, YOUR LIFESTYLE REALLY REQUIRES A LOT MORE SPACE, YOU KIND OF BOUGHT A COMPLEX PROBLEM
AND MAYBE YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S JUST THE REALITY, THAT IT'S, IT'S HARD TO MAKE A, A LITTLE HOUSE LOOK LIKE A LITTLE HOUSE AND BE BIG
IT'S JUST NOBODY ELSE IS BUYING IT.
I, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE, UM, IF PER SQUARE FOOT, IT WAS PROBABLY VERY SPECIFIC BECAUSE OF THE VALUABLE LAND AND THE LOCATION.
SO, UH, PLEASE PASS ON TO THEM.
BUT WE APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS THEY HAVE MADE AND WE'RE TRYING, TRYING AS WE ALWAYS DO TO SEEK COMPROMISE.
BUT COMPROMISE IS PAINFUL ON BOTH SIDES.
SO WE'LL SEE HOW THIS BOAT GOES.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? CAN I MAKE A COMMENT ON MY OWN COMMENT?
I I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE TOO FAR AWAY.
CAN WE GET APPROVAL WITH THE SIDE ADDITION BEING SET BACK? I, I THINK THERE'S TOO, AND THE OTHER ADDITION GOING AWAY ON THE STRIP.
I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S TOO MUCH THAT I COULD TRY AND WRITE IN A, IN A, IN A MOTION TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
UM, SO I, I, I'D LIKE AND WRITE IT FOR YOU.
MIKE, YOU'RE VERY, VERY CLOSE.
SO I HOPE YOU TAKE THAT AS ENCOURAGEMENT.
YES, IT, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE AT SOME POINTS TO MAKE CONDITIONS THAT ARE ENOUGH.
YEAH, WE WANT YOU BACK AND WE'LL GET YOU THERE
AND IF THE APPLICANTS HAVE TIME TO COME WITH YOU, THEN PERHAPS WE COULD DISCUSS WITH THEM WHAT THEY REALLY NEED OR WANT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THING.
RIGHT NOW I THINK IT'S TIME TO CALL FOR THE VOTE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION? AYE.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? NO OPPOSED.
OKAY, SO THAT IS COMMISSIONER OFFIT AND COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA.
IS THAT ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN OPPOSITION? I THINK THERE WAS LIKE SIX OTHER PEOPLE ON MUTE.
WELL, BUT I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO NUMBERS.
SO THE MOTION HAS CARRIED, WHICH MEANS YOU DID GET A DENIAL.
A DENIAL MAY BE APPEALED TO CPC FOR A FEE, BUT THEIR ENTIRE JUDGMENT WILL BE BASED ON WHETHER WE AIRED.
AND, UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE PROOF STANDARD OF PROOF IS FOR THAT.
WE INVITE YOU AND THE APPLICANTS IF THEY WANT TO, TO, TO COME BACK WITH A TWEETED PROPOSAL.
OUR, THOSE ARE OUR ARCHITECTS OVER THERE, BY THE WAY, TRYING TO REASSURE YOU THAT, THAT YOU'RE CLOSE AND THEY THINK YOU CAN DO IT.
I'M SURE YOU DIDN'T ENJOY IT, BUT
OKAY, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO D FOUR NEXT BECAUSE WE HAVE, UH, SPEAKERS ON THAT.
OKAY, AGAIN, GOOD AFTERNOON, THIS IS DR.
RHONDA DUNN SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY WELL ON DISCUSSION ITEM D FOUR.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 10 23 BETTERTON CIRCLE IN THE 10TH STREET NEIGHBORHOOD
[02:35:01]
HISTORIC DISTRICT.THE CASE NUMBER IS CD 2 34 DASH 0 0 4 RD.
THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING.
THE STANDARD IS IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING STANDARD IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY BE DENIED WITH PREJUDICE.
THE PROPOSED WORK IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION H FOUR C TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION.
UH, THE REQUEST BE DENIED WITH PREJUDICE.
APPLICANT SHOULD INSTALL CONSTRUCTION FENCING TO SECURE THE PROPERTY AND MOTHBALL THE STRUCTURE.
UM, WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS SIGNED UP FOR THIS.
THE FIRST IS OSCAR VARGAS, AND IF YOU COULD PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS AND YOUR PROMISE TO TELL US THE TRUTH.
OSCAR VARGAS 1 2 5 0 8 WILDWOOD.
AND YES, I PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
UH, OUR, WE'RE LOOKING, THIS PROPERTY WAS PURCHASED AT A SHERIFF'S HOME AND WE'RE BASICALLY, THAT PROPERTY'S BASICALLY JUST THE SHELL SITTING ON LAND.
UM, WE'VE GOTTEN MANY CITATIONS, UH, DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY NEED US TO WHETHER REPAIR THE ROOF, UH, THE SIDING.
BUT THIS PROPERTY IS, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S SALVAGEABLE.
UH, WE HAVE A, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING REPORT THAT WE CAN PULL UP.
UM, IF YOU SEE ON THOSE PICTURES, EVERYTHING IS MOLDY, UH, BROKEN.
THE FLOORING IS UNSAFE TO WALK ON.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S SALVAGEABLE.
NEITHER DOES A STRUCTURE ENGINEER THAT WE WENT ON TO, TO, UH, LOOK AT THE PROPERTY.
ARE YOU READY FOR QUESTIONS NOW? SO, NO, I THOUGHT THEY WERE GONNA BRING UP, OH, THEY'RE TRYING.
AS YOU CAN SEE, OUR TECHNOLOGY IS NOT ALWAYS AS HELPFUL AS WE WOULD LIKE TO.
IN THE MEANTIME, WE DID GET TWO QUOTES, TWO ESTIMATES FROM, UH, DIFFERENT CONTRACTORS.
UH, ONE OF THE QUOTES CAME BACK AT $128,000 TO REPAIR THE, THE STRUCTURE.
THE SECOND CAME BACK AT 172,000.
I KNOW I DIDN'T SUBMIT THIS WITH MY INITIAL, UH, EMAIL, BUT I DO HAVE, UH, AN, AN ESTIMATE FOR A NEW BUILD.
AND THAT ESTIMATE ONLY COMES OUT TO 151,000.
SO 2200 SQUARE FEET COMPARED TO, UH, 945, I BELIEVE.
WHAT IN ADDITION, THAT WAS, UH, MADE AFTER THE, THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING.
IT SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN MADE, UH, EXTREMELY POORLY.
IT HAS FOUR BY 12 PLYWOOD AS THE ROOF THAT'S COMPLETELY MOLDY AND HAS, UH, HOLES ON TOP.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON THESE PICTURES HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, IMAGE, THE SECOND IMAGE TO YOUR RIGHT, YOU CAN SEE THE ROOF, UH, PAVED IN WITH A, WITH A HOLE THERE.
IF YOU CONTINUE TO THE NEXT PHOTOS, THAT IS THE ADDITION THAT WAS MADE AFTERWARDS.
IT IS JUST PLYWOOD WITH NAILS, UH, YOU KNOW, SURROUNDING THAT STRUCTURE.
WE CAN CONTINUE TO THE NEXT PICTURE.
THAT, ONCE AGAIN, THAT'S THE ADDITION THERE, THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
AND WE CONTINUE TO THE INTERIOR THAT IS THE CROSS BASE.
THE PERIMETER BEAM IS ALL COMPLETELY MOLDY AND, UH, JUST SITTING ON SOME PARTS OF THE HOUSE ARE JUST SITTING ON THE GROUND.
CAN WE CONTINUE THE NEXT, EXCUSE ME, SIR, THAT IS YOUR TIME.
MAKE A MOTION TO GIVE HIM TWO MORE MINUTES.
ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, TWO MORE MINUTES, SIR.
AS FAR AS YOU SEE THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT, THAT'S WHEN YOU FIRST WALK INTO THE LIVING.
THAT CORNER THERE IS COMPLETELY FULL OF MOLD.
IT IS, IF YOU TOUCH THAT WALL, I MEAN IT
[02:40:01]
BASICALLY DISINTEGRATES AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.CAN WE PLEASE MOVE TO THE NEXT PHOTO? MM-HMM.
UM, THERE'S JUST A FEW TWO, TWO BY FOURS BEING, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST SITTING THERE.
THERE'S NO ELECTRICAL PLUMBING, THERE'S NOT A METER, THERE'S NOTHING ON THE HOUSE.
BUT SECOND PICTURE TO THE RIGHT THERE, THERE'S, UH, THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS BUILT IN THE BACK.
AND IT'S JUST, AS YOU CAN TELL, JUST SHEETS OF PRESSED PLYWOOD AS THE ROOF, WHICH DOESN'T HAVE SHINGLES.
UM, MAY YOU PLEASE GO TO THE NEXT PHOTOS AND THERE GOES THE PHOTOS WITH THE MOLD.
THERE'S LENGTHS ON THE ROOF THERE FULL OF MOLD ALSO.
UM, I BELIEVE THERE'S JUST ONE SET OF PARTICULAR LEFT.
SO, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S BASICALLY MY STANDING.
THE PROPERTY IS IN HORRIBLE CONDITION WHEN IT'S PRETTY SCARY WALKING IN THERE.
THE CROSS BASE IS PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR FEET UNDER THE HOUSE AND WALKING IN THERE, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IF YOUR FOOT'S GONNA FALL THROUGH OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT'S PRETTY DANGEROUS WALKING INSIDE ALSO.
NOW WE ARE READY FOR QUESTIONS AND CAN I ANSWER A QUESTION ASKED EARLIER BY COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? YEAH, SURE.
UH, THE QUESTION EARLIER WAS, WHEN DID THE CURRENT APPLICANT PURCHASE THE PROPERTY? ACCORDING TO THE, UH, COUNTY'S RECORDS, IT WAS FEBRUARY 26TH, 2020, 2012.
NO, 20, 23 YEARS AGO, BUT 2020.
SO NEXT WEEK WE NEED TO HEAR FROM LARRY JOHNSON AGAIN, WHO'S ALREADY SWORN IN AND PROMISED TO TELL THE TRUTH.
SO HE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT AGAIN.
MAY, MAY I JUST ANSWER, UH, MAKE A STATEMENT ON THAT LAST, UH, FORM THAT WAS PURCHASED.
DID YOU BUY IT IN 2020? YES, WE DID.
THE REASON THIS TOOK SO LONG, THERE WERE SQUATTERS IN THE PROPERTY AND IT JUST TOOK US FOREVER TO, DUE TO COVID.
TOOK US FOREVER TO GET, YEAH, IT WAS HARD TIMES.
MM-HMM,
SO, UM, UH, I BELIEVE THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UM, WE'RE NOT STANDING FOR ANY DEMOLITIONS IN 10TH STREET.
UM, MY HOUSE IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS HOUSE.
UM, IT IS NOT A THREAT TO PUBLIC, UH, TO, IT'S NOT AN IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY.
UM, I HAVE CAMERAS AROUND MY HOUSE.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, UM, WE DID HAVE SOME NEIGHBORS CONCERN.
WE ACTUALLY WENT OVER TO THE HOUSE AND WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT, UM, THERE HAD BEEN WINDOWS LEFT OPEN.
SO THE HOUSE JUST NEEDS TO BE MOTHBALLED.
UM, I DO BELIEVE THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UM, I HAVE WORKED ON HOUSES IN FAR WORSE CONDITION THAN THIS ONE, UH, THAT WE HAVE BOUGHT BACK.
AND SO THESE HOUSES WERE OFTENTIMES MADE WITH A PINE WOOD, UM, WHICH IS WEATHER RESISTANT.
UM, IT DOES GET A LITTLE DIRTY AT TIMES, BUT IT JUST NEEDS TO BE CLEANED OFF.
UM, AND WE BELIEVE THAT THIS HOUSE IS SALVAGEABLE AND I WISH I WOULD'VE BOUGHT PICTURES, BUT I CAN SHOW YOU HOUSES IN FAR WORSE CONDITION.
UM, SOME HOUSES HAVE HAD, THE ROOF HAS BEEN EXPOSED FOR 10, 20 YEARS.
UM, AND WE HAVE WORKED, UH, WITH THE OWNERS IN ORDER TO, UH, BRING THE STRUCTURES BACK.
AND SO, UM, YES, WE ARE, UH, WE, THE COMMUNITY, WE'RE UNIFIED IN THAT, UM, WE DO NOT WANNA SEE THIS HOUSE, UH, GO ANYWHERE.
WE WANT TO SEE THE APPLICANT, UM, MOTHBALL THE HOUSE.
AND, UH, WE WANT TO SEE THE HOUSE, UH, REHABBED AND WE KNOW THAT IT CAN BE REHABBED.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE FIRST QUESTION TO MR. VARGAS, IF YOU COULD PLEASE COME UP AND YOU ARE, I PRESUME, JUST THE REPRESENTATIVE SO YOU DON'T MAKE THE DECISIONS.
WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN AND FACING US.
YOU HAVE A BID FOR 170 SOMETHING THAT WOULD FIX THE HOUSE AND MAKE IT ABLE TO BE LIVED IN, DID I NOT SAY THAT? 172,000 172.
AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE FOR 150 SOMETHING TO TEAR IT DOWN AND BUILD THE NEW ONE.
NO, I'M SORRY, THE OTHER, UH, THE 150,000 IS WHAT A BUILDER WOULD CHARGE ME TO CREATE A NEW HOUSE.
TO BUILD A NEW, TO CREATE A NEW HOUSE.
WHEN YOU DO THAT PRICE COMPARISON, HAVE YOU FACTORED IN THE UNPLACEABLE HISTORIC VALUE OF IT, GIVEN WHAT YOUR NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET HAS JUST SAID AND WHAT, UM, FRANKLY, WE'VE BEEN SAYING A WHILE WE'RE ABOUT TO LOSE THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT IF WE KEEP KNOCKING DOWN THE HOUSES.
[02:45:01]
KNOW IT'S A MODEST HOUSE.CAN YOU TAKE BACK TO YOUR EMPLOYERS AND PARTNERS THAT THERE'S ANOTHER VALUE THAN MONEY INVOLVED IN THIS? I KNOW IT'S YOUR MONEY, SO IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY, BUT STILL, YOU KNOW.
THE, THE PERSON THAT WENT OUT TO, UH, YOU KNOW, INSPECT, GIVE US PRICES, THEY, THEY'RE AWARE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I'M SURE THERE'S GONNA BE ORDINANCES OF HOW THE STRUCTURING NEEDS TO BE BUILT.
APPEARANCE, YOU KNOW, SO EVERYTHING WAS IN THE, UM, I'M SORRY, EVERYTHING WAS, THE CONTRACTOR DID GO WITH ALL THAT IN MIND, KNOWING OKAY.
AND I BELIEVE YOU SAID THE NEW HOUSE WOULD BE MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAN THE CURRENT HOUSE.
THIS CURRENT HOUSE IS 945 SQUARE FEET.
UH, MY BOSS DERO THE INVESTMENTS, THEY HAVE BUILT 2200 SQUARE FOOT HOMES FOR 150,000.
UH, SAME CONTRACTOR KNOWING THAT, YOU KNOW, GIVE 'EM THIS PRICE HERE IN THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT KNOWING IT'S REGULATIONS.
WELL, I GOTTA, I GOTTA WARN YOU THAT IN THE EVENT THIS HOUSE WERE GONE AND YOU CAME BACK WITH THAT, WE MIGHT ARGUE THAT A HOUSE OF A SIMILAR SIZE TO THIS ONE IS MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THAT LOT.
I COULD SEE SOMEONE HERE DOING THAT.
WELL, UH, ALSO THAT'S NOT A CURRENT PLAN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
IT'S JUST A, A COMPARISON ON, OKAY.
AND ALL OF THIS IS BESIDE THE POINT BECAUSE WE'RE HERE TO JUDGE WHETHER IT POSES A PUBLIC THREAT AND, UM, YES, NO, YEAH, EXACTLY.
THAT'S, IT WAS JUST, UH, A PUBLIC THREAT NOT TO YOU.
WHEN YOU'RE IN IT, YOU, YOU ACCEPT SOME OF THOSE 'CAUSE YOU WORK FOR
I'M THE ONE THAT TAKES OFF OTHER RACE.
I'LL LET ALL THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS SPEAK.
SO I MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.
COMMISSIONER ANDREW, I HAVE A, I HAVE, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THERE'S A TAX INCENTIVE PROGRAM THAT YOU CAN GET YOUR CITY OF DALLAS TAXES ABATED FOR HISTORIC PROPERTIES? YOU SAID TAXES.
YOUR CITY OF DALLAS TAXES CAN BE ABATED ON THE RESTORATION OF THIS BUILDING.
MARCUS DOESN'T KNOW ANY NO TO RHONDA.
UM, AND RHONDA DO, UH, DOESN'T THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT DON'T THEY STILL HAVE SOME FUNDING? THEY STILL HAVE FUNDING UP TO $50,000 RIGHT NOW.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CRITERIA WOULD BE IN ORDER TO OBTAIN IT, BUT THEY DO STILL HAVE SOME FUNDING FOR REPAIRS AT THIS TIME.
YOU MIGHT I SAY ALSO REPAIRING THIS PROPERTY WHERE IF IT WAS TO BE REPAIRED, WE'RE BASICALLY KNOCKING DOWN EVERY SINGLE WALL.
UH, THE ROOF WOULD BE COMPLETELY REDONE.
SO I WOULDN'T CONSIDER THIS HOUSE BEING BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL.
EVERYTHING WOULD BE NEW IN THE HOME.
UH, FLOORING BEAM, NOTHING SALABLE.
WELL, UM, IN RESPONSE TO THAT, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
DO YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE FIXING UP OLDER HOMES THAT NEED TO BE PRESERVED OR THEIR HISTORICAL VALUE BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT WAY OF BUILDING WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING EFFICIENTLY THE WAY YOU'RE USED TO MIGHT HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS AND WAYS YOU DO IT.
WE'RE KIND OF LIKE A LITTLE NICHE THAT NOT EVERYBODY'S WANTED TO WORK IN.
SO PEOPLE WHO DO WORK IN THAT, IF ANY OF THEM WERE HERE, WOULD BE TELLING YOU SOMETHING DIFFERENT, INCLUDING THE JOYS OF REUSING LUMBER, HISTORIC LUMBER THAT IS SO MUCH STRONGER AND STURDIER AND, AND DENSER AND ON ALL THESE OTHER THINGS.
MR. JOHNSON PROBABLY HAS SOME STORIES ABOUT THOSE JOYS.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT JUST NOT, YOU COULD LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS AND YOU MIGHT EVEN FIND IT REALLY INTERESTING IF YOU, IF YOU TOOK THIS ON AS A PROJECT, YOU MIGHT ENJOY IT AS A PERSON WORKING ON HOUSE IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.
DO WE HAVE COMMISSIONER SHERMAN? JAY, COMMISSIONER TAYLOR, WHO HAS COMMISSIONER GOTTEN ON ELECTRONICALLY? YEAH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER TAYLOR.
UM, I HAVE TO ADAMANTLY PROPOSE, I GUESS, RIGHT AGAINST THE DEMOLITION OF THIS HOUSE.
I THINK IT CAN BE SALVAGED EVEN IF IT IS TAKEN DOWN TO STUDS.
UM, LARRY JOHNSON AND I HAVE BOTH SEEN HOMES RESTORED, UM, THAT HAVE BEEN FAR WORSE CASE CONDITIONED THAN THIS.
AND THIS IS A HOME THAT NEEDS TO BE SAVED, UM, AND CAN BE SAVED.
I, I I'M READY FOR A MOTION IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTION.
UH, WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE MORE COMMISSIONER WITH THEIR LIGHT ON, READY TO HAVE A QUESTION AND THAT IS COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.
SO MR. VARGAS, YOU ARE, UM, A PARTNER WITH RE I'M A NO, I WORK FOR DE REAL.
I'M THE ONE WHO TAKES CARE OF, SO DE REALTY IS A SET OF INVESTORS, IS THAT CORRECT? ONE NO, IT IS ONE OWNER.
WHO YOU REPRESENT BEFORE US TODAY? YES.
WHAT, WHAT THE OWNER OF THIS COMPANY NEEDS TO KNOW.
WELL, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION FIRST.
SO, UM, WHEN YOU SAY IT'S A SHERIFF'S
[02:50:01]
SALE, DOES THAT MEAN WHAT MOST OF US COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS BUYING IT ON THE COURTHOUSE STEPS SITE ON SCENE? LET'S DO FOR DELINQUENT TAXES.UM, IT MIGHT BE WISE TO SHARE WITH THE OWNER OF THIS COMPANY THAT, UM, WHILE THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE FOR NON-PROTECTED PROPERTIES, IT'S NOT GONNA WORK OR A PROTECTIVE PROPERTY IN CITY OF DALLAS SUCH AS THIS ONE BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S ONLY THREE STANDARDS THAT WE CAN AUTHORIZE A DEMOLITION MM-HMM.
AND THE APPLICATION HERE IS TO APPLY ON A STANDARD OF IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.
AND IT'S, IT, PEOPLE CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT THIS, THIS COMMISSION WILL FIND THAT THIS BUILDING IS SALVAGEABLE.
IT CAN BE SAVED AND THAT IT'S NOT POSING AN IM IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY.
THUS WE CANNOT AUTHORIZE ITS DEMOLITION BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FIND THREE THINGS.
WE HAVE TO FIND THAT IT DOES CONSTITUTE A MAJOR AND IMMINENT THREAT THAT, UM, DEMOLITION OR REMOVAL IS REQUIRED TO ALLEVIATE THE THREAT.
AND THERE'S NO REASONABLE WAY OTHER THAN DEMOLITION REMOVAL TO ELIMINATE THE THREAT IN A TIMELY MANNER.
IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH COSTS.
IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RETURN ON INVESTMENT.
SO, UM, YOU WILL FIND THAT IT'S PROBABLY BARE FOR IT TO BE MR. TAYLOR'S, UM, COMMISSIONER TAYLOR'S MOTION BECAUSE THIS IS HIS DISTRICT AND HE DOES RESIDE THAT.
YOU'LL FIND THAT THAT'S GONNA BE THE MOTION IS TO DENY THIS FOR THAT REASON.
SO IF THE OWNER OF THIS COMPANY STILL STRUGGLES TO, UM, UNDERSTAND THAT THEY NEED TO COME AND SIT DOWN WITH KATE AND THEY NEED TO COME IN AND SIT DOWN WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY TO GRASP THAT, AND STAFF OF COURSE IS ALWAYS HELPFUL.
DR. DUNN IS ONE OF THE BEST WE'VE EVER HAD.
SO I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THAT IS WHY YOU'RE DOWN HERE TODAY AND YOU'RE GONNA WALK AWAY WITH A DENIAL IN MY OPINION, SO THANK YOU.
SO I THINK THAT MEANS WE'RE READY FOR A MOTION.
WHO IS GOING TO MAKE THE MOTION? I'M WAITING TO HEAR.
SPEAK UP IF YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION.
I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION.
LET'S CHECK COMMISSIONER OFFIT, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? YES, PLEASE.
UM, I DON'T HAVE THE CASE NUMBER IN FRONT OF ME, BUT IN THAT CASE NUMBER OF, UH, DISCUSSION TOPIC FOUR, UM, I PROPOSE THAT WE ALIGN WITH STAFF AND WE DENY WITH PREJUDICE, UM, FOR THE DEMOLITION AT THIS LOCATION.
IT'S 1 0 2 3 BETTERTON CIRCLE CD 2 3 4 DASH 0 0 4 RD.
I BELIEVE OUR FIRST SECOND CAME FROM COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.
FURTHER DISCUSSION, COMMISSIONER PREZI.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT THERE ARE ALSO ADDITIONAL INCENTIVES AVAILABLE AT THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL IF THIS PROPERTY IS GONNA BE INCOME PRODUCING AND YOU COULD ACTUALLY SAVE 45% OF YOUR INVESTMENT, UH, GET BACK IN TAX CREDIT.
SO THAT 1 72 COULD ALMOST BE CUT IN HALF TO REHABILITATE THIS HOUSE AND MAKE IT AN INCOME PRODUCING PROPERTY WHERE YOU WOULD RENT IT OUT TO, YOU KNOW, TO ANYBODY FOR UP TO FIVE YEARS.
AND THEN YOU CAN DO OTHER THINGS AFTER THAT.
BUT THAT IS A VIABLE OPTION FOR THIS PROPERTY AS WELL BECAUSE IT IS IN A NATIONAL REGISTER.
SO IT CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BOTH THOSE INCENTIVES.
BUT WE, WE JUST, WE'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF RENTING OR HAVING TENANTS.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALRIGHT, UM, I GUESS YOU'RE, YOU'RE PLANNING ON SELLING IT, BUT DO UM, WHATEVER HAPPENS HERE DO TAKE BACK TO YOUR EMPLOYER WHO HAS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO WITH THIS HOUSE THAT STAFF IS HAPPY TO HELP.
THEY COULD CALL PRESERVATION DOLLARS FOR FURTHER ADVICE ON CERTAIN ON THINGS.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO'D BE HAPPY TO HELP THEM SAVE THIS HOUSE AND SAVE THEIR PROFITS TOO.
NOT BY GIVING THEM MONEY, BUT BY GIVING THEM REALLY GOOD ADVICE ON THE WAYS THAT WE DO HELP MAKE PRESERVATION WORTH THE INVESTMENT.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE UP FOR EXPLORING THAT, BUT MAYBE THEY ARE.
IF THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS, LET US CALL FOR THE VOTE ON THIS.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY AYE.
[02:55:02]
ANY HE OPPOSED THIS MOTION? ALL RIGHT.YOU HAVE RECEIVED A DENIAL PLEASE.
UM, YOU OR YOUR EMPLOYER CAN APPEAL THIS TO THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION FOR A FEE AND THEY WILL ONLY RULE ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE, UM, WHETHER WE AIRED, WHETHER WE WERE WRONG AND IT IS A PUBLIC NUISANCE AND UM, IT WOULD BE BETTER TO AT LEAST EXPLORE TALKING MORE WITH OUR STAFF, TALKING MORE WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP YOU SEE IF THEY CAN, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THIS, THIS PROPERTY IN A WAY THAT WILL WORK FOR Y'ALL.
AND IF IT WON'T, MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT IT TO ANYMORE, I DUNNO, BUT, UM, I'M SORRY THAT YOU HAD TO LISTEN TO US ALL.
WHY DON'T YOU WHEN YOU'RE NOT THE DECISION MAKER.
SO TAKE THAT BACK TO THE PERSON WHO BOUGHT THIS AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THEM OR YOU AGAIN TO EXPLORE TOGETHER WHAT WE DO ABOUT THIS HOUSE.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE ONE MORE DISCUSSION.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK TO IT.
UM, DISCUSSION ITEM, UH, CHRISTINA MANKOWSKI ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.
DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER 3 56 50 SWISS AVENUE CASE CA 2 3 4 0 9 8 CMM.
REQUEST A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING ROD IRON FENCE WITH EIGHT FOOT BOARD ON BOARD CEDAR FENCE.
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING WR IRON FENCE, THE EIGHT FOOT BOARD ON BOARD CEDAR FENCE BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE AS A PROPOSED WORK IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA.
SECTION 51 P DASH 63 1 16 2 B AND DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 G SIX C ROMAN I FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS TASK FORCE TASK FORCE.
I'M READY TO READ THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS.
ONLY THE TASK FORCE MEMBERS DETERMINE THAT THE REQUESTED EXTENSION OF AN EIGHT FOOT BOARD ON BOARD PRIVACY FENCE INTO THE FRONT 50% OF THE PROPERTY IS ESPECIALLY DISALLOWED IN THE SWISS AVENUE HISTORIC ORDINANCE.
FOR THIS REASON, THE MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE DETERMINED THAT THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTION THAN TO RECOMMEND THAT THE REQUEST BE DENIED.
WITH PREJUDICE NOTE, THE DECISION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REQUEST TO REPLACE A FOUR FOOT OPEN WROUGHT IRON FENCE WITH AN EIGHT FOOT CEDAR PRIVACY FENCE.
RATHER, IT HAS ONLY TO DO WITH THE REQUEST TO EXTEND THE EIGHT FOOT PRIVACY FENCE INTO THE FRONT 50% OF THE REAR YARD.
I WOULD ALSO OF THE YARD? YES.
AND I WANT TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED BY COMMISSIONERS, UH, PRIOR TO LUNCH.
UM, THERE IS NO PREVIOUS CA FOR THE RIDE WROUGHT IRON FENCE AND UH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH SWISS AVENUE ORDINANCE.
THERE ARE NO FENCES ALLOWED IN THE FRONT YARD, NOT EVEN WROUGHT IRON.
I WILL ALSO MAKE NOTE THAT THESE ARE NEW OWNERS.
THEY'VE ONLY BEEN THERE FOUR MONTHS.
UM, AND I DID RECEIVE AN EMAIL THAT INCLUDES MORE LIKE SAFETY CONCERNS IF, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ALLOWED TO READ IT 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S CONSIDERED NEW EVIDENCE THAT WAS NOT IN THE STAFF REPORT, BUT IT'S JUST A COUPLE OF INCIDENTS THAT THEY'VE HAD IN THE LAST FOUR MONTHS OF LIVING THERE.
SO IF I CAN READ IT, I WILL
WELL, UM, IN THE ABSENCE OF THE APPLICANT, I THINK WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THE WORD.
IS THAT OKAY? OKAY, WELL THEN THAT IS GREAT.
THEY ARE ACTUALLY ONLINE BUT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO SIGN UP IN TIME TO SPEAK SO THEY'RE LISTENING.
SO THEIR UM, EMAIL INDICATES THAT IN THE PAST, IN THE FOUR MONTHS THAT THEY HAVE LIVED ON SWISS AVENUE, UH, THEY HAVE HAD A ROCK THROWN THROUGH THEIR WINDOW.
UM, THE APPLICANT'S WIFE'S CAR HAS BEEN BROKEN INTO TWICE.
UH, WE DESIRE MORE PRIVACY AND DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SEE INTO OUR BACKYARD.
WE HAVE A TWO-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER AND OUR FAMILY DOG PLAYING IN THE BACKYARD AND DO NOT WANT RANDOM PEOPLE WALKING AND OR DRIVING ON SWISS AVENUE TO BE ABLE TO SEE THEM.
UH, THEY BELIEVE THAT THE SAFETY OF THEIR DAUGHTER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN RANDOM PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO SEE THE AIR CONDITION UNITS, UM, WHICH IS WHAT IS SEEN NOW.
BUT THAT WAS MORE OF THE CONCERN.
NOT NECESSARILY DO COVER THE HVAC BUT FOR PRIVACY.
UM, AND I BELIEVE I PUT IN STAFF REPORT WHAT
[03:00:01]
THE ORDINANCE STATES SPECIFICALLY THAT THE COMMISSION COULD APPROVE.ALRIGHT, QUESTIONS OF STAFF SINCE APPLICANTS CAN'T SPEAK TO US, COMMISSIONER? SO THE APPLICANTS ARE ONLINE.
THEY ARE, BUT THEY DID NOT SIGN UP IN TIME AND THEY HAVE TO BE IN PERSON TO SPEAK BECAUSE THEY DON'T, THEY DIDN'T PREVIOUSLY SIGN UP UNLESS THERE'S A NEW EXCEPTION TO THAT RULE IS THEY'RE NOT ARE THEY AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS? UM, LET ME SEE IF WELL, TO ME IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS IF THEY SHOWED UP IN THE MEETING AND THEY HAD NOT SIGNED OUT IN ADVANCE.
SINCE IT APPEARS THAT I CANNOT BE ARRESTED OR SUED FOR ALLOWING THIS, I THINK WE OUGHT TO ALLOW THE APPLICANTS TO SPEAK.
THEY ARE ONLY ON, UH, LET'S SEE.
OH, DID HE JUST LEAVE? LET ME SEE.
MAYBE HE'S GONNA TRY TO SIGN ON.
EVERYBODY'S SAYING WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION.
I MOTION THAT WE ALLOW THE APPLICANTS WHO ARE ONLINE TO, UH, TO SPEAK.
ANY OPPOSED? UH, COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERG LOOKS SECOND.
ALRIGHT, HAVE YOU GOT THEM ONLINE YET? YES.
CLAY, IS THAT YOU? DID YOU JUST COME? YES, I SEE HIM THERE.
I SEE CLAY PATTERSON ON THERE.
YOU NEED TO CONFIRM YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS, EVEN THOUGH WE ALL BOTH KNOW AND TELL US YOU'RE GONNA TELL US THE TRUTH.
CLAY PATTERSON AND ADDRESS IS 5 6 5 0 SWISS AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 1 4.
AND YOU'RE JUST FULL OF TRUTH AND YOU'RE GONNA SHARE THAT WITH US? YEAH.
SO I PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
UH, UM, WE DID HEAR YOUR LETTER, SO WE WE'VE GOT THAT.
WHAT DO YOU, ANY FURTHER INFORMATION YOU NEED TO SHARE WITH US? OR WE CAN JUST ASK YOU QUESTIONS? UH, NO, NOT REALLY.
THE, THE, IT'S REALLY JUST A PRIVACY THAT WHEN I'VE GOT A, IN THE BACKYARD WHEN I'M WITH MY DAUGHTER, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE THE PEOPLE AND WE DON'T HAVE A D DRAPERY IN OUR FRONT ROOM EITHER, SO IT'S JUST, IT'S LIKE WE'RE KIND OF ON DISPLAY FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.
BUT WE PLAN ON PUTTING SOME DRAPERY UP.
BUT IN THE REAR YARD, YEAH, PEOPLE CAN, YOU CAN JUST SEE PEOPLE AS THEY WALK THROUGH, KIND OF CRANE THEIR NECK AND LOOK OVER.
AND, UM, AFTER HALLOWEEN I SAW JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN COME THROUGH THERE.
AND SO I JUST WAS KIND OF CONCERNED THAT, UH, IF MY, YOU KNOW, DAUGHTER'S BACK THERE, I DON'T LET HER OUT BY HERSELF SINCE SHE'S TWO.
BUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE SHE GETS A LITTLE OLDER, I MIGHT JUST THROW HER IN THE BACKYARD TO PLAY.
AND AS OF NOW, I WOULDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE, UH, LEAVING HER OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, UNATTENDED JUST BECAUSE SHE'S JUST OUT FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE.
AND, UM, SO QUESTIONS FOR OUR APPLICANT, COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON FOR STAFF OR THE APPLICANT, IS THERE A PRIVACY FENCE AT THE REAR CORNER OR AT THE, THE, THE ALLOWABLE LOCATION FOR THIS PROPERTY, OR IS IT WROUGHT IRON? OH, NO, THE, THERE'S THREE SIDES THAT ARE ALREADY BOARD ON BOARD FENCE.
SO WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE THE WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT AREA MATCH WHAT'S ALREADY UP.
HOWEVER, THE WR IRON FENCE THAT IS PUT, UH, IN WAS PUT PREVIOUSLY TO THEM AND OKAY.
WAS NOT SUPPOSED, WELL, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS THEN THE BACKYARD IS FENCED IN WITH A, A, A WOOD FENCE.
THE THREE SIDES OF IT ARE NOT THE SIDE HE'S SPEAKING UP.
I GUESS WHAT I'M WONDERING IS IF HE COULD PUT IN A WOOD FENCE IN THE PROPER LOCATION TO KEEP HIS FAMILY FROM SEEING PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, BUT THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE AT THE REAR CORNER OF IS, IS THIS, UH, AT THE SIDE YARD? CORRECT? YES.
THIS IS THE INSIDE INTERIOR YARD.
SO YES, HE COULD PUT IT AT THE 50% OR THE ALLOWABLE 75% PER THE ORDINANCE THAT THE COMMISSION IS ALLOWED TO GRANT.
UM, IT WOULD JUST BE NOT EXACTLY WHERE THE WR IRON FENCE SITS.
NOW, AGAIN, MY CONCERN IS THAT THE FENCE, THE WR IRON FENCE IS TOO FAR FORWARD.
I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT IT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION TO PUT IN A WOOD FENCE IN AND ON THIS SIDE SO THAT YOU CAN'T SEE INTO THE BACKYARD.
YES, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE IF I, I, I KNOW THEY'RE PROBABLY TRYING TO MATCH IT UP ALSO WITH THE NEIGHBORS, BECAUSE NOW THAT I SAW THE PICTURE, AND I KNOW THE NEIGHBORS ALSO HAVE IT AT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, SO I, I'M NOT SURE AESTHETICALLY
[03:05:01]
WHAT THAT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.BUT YES, THEY COULD, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER INTERIOR HOUSE, THEY COULD PUT THE WOOD FENCES IN THE REAR 50% OR 75%.
YEAH, I MEAN, WE COULD, WE COULD THROW THE, THE FENCE UP AT THE REAR OF THE HOUSE.
WE WERE JUST TRYING TO, TO HAVE IT, YOU KNOW, MATCH WHERE THE CURRENT FENCE IS AND, UH, CAPTURE THAT SPACE AND ALSO JUST HAVE IT KIND OF AESTHETICALLY MATCH WHERE THE, THE GATE IS OR THE FENCE IS ON THE NEIGHBORS.
SO WE COULD, WE COULD LEAVE IT AS IS AND JUST BUILD A WOODEN FENCE, BUT THEN THERE'D BE KIND OF AN EXTERNAL SECOND FENCED IN, UH, UNUSABLE AC AREA.
UM, SO IT WOULDN'T LOOK GREAT, BUT IT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO, TO FIT THE CODE THEN WE, I, I THINK YES.
AND PER COAT AT THIS POINT, NOW THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT THE, THE RIGHT IRON FENCE SHOULD NOT BE THERE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT DOWN, CORRECT? NO, NO.
YEAH, ANYTHING, YEAH, IF YOU DON'T TOUCH IT, THEN YEAH, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE THAT UNUSABLE WEIRD SPACE OF A BROAD IRON IN FRONT AND THEN SIX FEET BACK OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, WOULD BE THE WOOD FENCE.
WELL, HANG ON, LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS COMMISSIONERS HAVE, BUT I GUESS THE QUESTION HERE IS, WE WE'RE ESSENTIALLY ASKING THE APPLICANT WOULD A WOODEN FENCE BACK WHERE IT'S ALREADY ALLOWED BACK OF THE HOUSE, WOULD THAT SUFFICE FOR YOUR DECLARED PRIMARY CONCERN, UH, THAT YOUR DAUGHTER NOT BE SEEN AND YOU OUT THERE, THAT YOU ALL WANNA BE PRIVATE IN YOUR BACKYARD, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD COVER THE, THE PRIVACY ISSUE.
IT WOULD JUST AESTHETICALLY BE A LITTLE STRANGE, BUT THAT WOULD COVER THE PRIVACY ISSUE.
I JUST FIGURED WHEN I FIRST LOOKED AT IT, AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE WROUGHT IRON FENCE WAS APPROVED.
I MEAN, IT HAD BEEN THERE YEARS BEFORE I BOUGHT THE HOUSE, BUT I JUST FIGURED, I WAS LIKE, OH, INSTEAD OF THIS WROUGHT IRON FENCE, LET'S JUST, UH, LET'S JUST CONTINUE THE PRIVACY FENCE AROUND.
AND THEN I STARTED LOOKING AT ALL THE ORDINANCES AND I, I, I GOT WITH CHRISTINA AND SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, KIND OF GAVE ME THE RULES AND SAID I COULD FILE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND, AND GIVE IT A SHOT JUST TO, TO MATCH WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE.
AND THAT WAY I WOULD BE ABLE TO MAYBE, EVEN THOUGH THAT SIDEWALL ONLY HAS AC UNITS, I MEAN, IF WE WERE ABLE TO KEEP THE FENCE WHERE IT CURRENTLY IS, I MEAN, THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TURFING THAT AREA AND MAKING IT A LITTLE BIT MORE USABLE SPACE IN THE BACK.
BUT IF, IF NOT, THEN WE CAN LEAVE IT IN THE FRONT.
IT'S JUST GONNA BE A, I MEAN, AR ARCHITECTURALLY IT'S NOT REALLY SIGNIFICANT, BUT YOU'LL JUST, EVERYBODY ON THE ROAD WILL JUST SEE THREE AC UNITS AND A AND ELECTRICITY METER STRAPPED TO, YOU KNOW, AGAINST A BLANK WALL.
WELL, NOTHING, NO ANSWER IS PERFECT.
DID I MISS COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL ME? YEAH, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK THE APPLICANT.
WOULD, WOULD YOU CONSIDER, OR COULD YOU PUT A COUPLE OF SELECTIVE PIECES OF SHRUBBERY IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE, UH, THE WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT MIGHT PROVIDE SOME PRIVACY AND STILL KEEP THE OTHER FENCE THERE AS IT IS? YEAH, THAT, THAT WAS KIND OF THE BACKUP PLAN IS TO, IF THE FENCE WASN'T APPROVED, TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT, UH, WHAT SHRUBBERY OR WHAT HEDGES COULD BE PUT THERE, UM, WITHOUT BREAKING CODE THAT WAY.
BASICALLY A, A, I GUESS A NATURAL SORT OF FENCE RATHER THAN A MANMADE FENCE KIND OF BE THE, THE NEXT PLAN OF ATTACK IF, UH, WE COULDN'T GET THE FENCE PUSHED THROUGH.
AND I WASN'T SURE IF IT'S ANY FENCE OR IF IT'S, YOU JUST HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE THROUGH IT, OR IF THE EIGHT FEET IS JUST TOO TALL.
I MEAN, WE JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT OUR OPTIONS WERE BEFORE WE COME BACK WITH ANOTHER PLAN OF ATTACK.
UM, I, ARE THERE ANY OTHERS WHO HAVEN'T ASKED QUESTIONS YET? THEN WE GO TO COMMISSIONER ANDERSON.
UH, OFFENSE AT THE MIDPOINT IN THE SWISS AVENUE ORDINANCE IS A STAFF REVIEW.
AND IF YOU WANTED TO GO FURTHER FORWARD TO THE 75%, YOU'D HAVE TO COME BACK TO US.
THAT'S WHY WE WENT AHEAD AND CAME HERE.
I DID TALK TO THEM AND SEE IF THEY WANTED TO DO IT AT THE 50%, THEN I WOULD'VE ALREADY APPROVED IT, BUT THEY WANTED TO TRY FOR SPECIAL APPROVAL, SO HERE WE GO.
ALRIGHT, IF THAT'S THE QUESTIONS SOMEONE NEEDS TO SUGGEST A MOTION THAT WE CAN ALL VOTE ON.
COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, I HAVE A MOTION, MADAM CHAIR, RIGHT IN THE MATTER OF, UM, D 3 56 50 SWISS AVENUE CA 2 3 4 0 9 8 CM.
I MOVE THAT WE FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE FOR THE REGION STATED IN THE ANALYSIS AS WELL AS THE
[03:10:01]
GUIDELINES AND, UM, STANDARDS, UH, REFERENCE.ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, CALL FOR THE VOTE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION? AYE.
ANYBODY OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? ALL RIGHTY.
MAY I PLEASE GET A SECOND? I, I NEED THAT FOR THE RECORD.
UM, WELL, WELL, I'M GLAD WE WERE ABLE TO MEET WITH THE HOMEOWNER AND, UM, DISCUSS THIS ISSUE AND, UH, HOPEFULLY THINGS WE'LL MOVE FORWARD.
UM, IS HE GONE ALREADY? YEAH, I THINK HE LEFT.
SO PLEASE PASS ON TO HIM THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE APPEAL AND OUR SINCERE, WHICH THAT HE COMES BACK AND TALKS TO US INSTEAD.
UM, WE, WE, SINCE YOU, IF YOU TECHNICALLY GET A DENIAL, YOU CAN ALWAYS APPEAL TO CPC.
THERE IS A FEE TO DO THAT, AND THEY WILL ASK IF WE JUDGE WRONGLY, THAT'S ALL THEY'RE GONNA BE LOOKING FOR.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THAT PUTS YOU BACK HERE ANYWAY, NEGOTIATING WITH US.
SO, YOU KNOW, WORK WITH STAFF, SEE IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING.
THERE ARE THINGS STAFF CAN DO WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING TO COME BACK HERE, OR THEY COULD HELP YOU WITH YOUR FINAL PLAN FOR THIS.
THAT'S ALL OF OUR VOTING ITEMS, EXCEPT WE HAVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
WE DO, BUT WE HAVEN'T DONE THE MINUTES YET.
UM, EXCEPT FOR THESE THINGS UP HERE ON THE SHELF WAITING FOR ME.
I DIDN'T MEAN THERE WASN'T MORE OTHER BUSINESS.
SO THE MEETING, THE MINUTES HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT THE CONCERNS THAT WERE EXPRESSED, ELAINE.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY FURTHER ISSUE WITH THE MINUTES THEN? A MOTION TO APPROVE THEM? SO MOVED.
UH, THAT WAS COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERG ROTHENBERGER WHO SECONDS THIS SECOND.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES? AYE.
OKAY, WE HAVE APPROVED OUR MINUTES.
ALRIGHT, WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO FIRST TO
AND WE CANNOT FINALIZE THIS, WE'RE JUST COME UP WITH LANGUAGE THAT THE CITY WILL WRITE OR REQUEST TO SEND UP THE LINE.
SO THE WAY IT WORKS IS THAT ALL OUR TASK FORCES ARE DEFINED IN YOUR RULES AND PROCEDURES.
AND SO IF YOU MAKE CHANGE, IF YOU WANNA MAKE CHANGES TO THE COMPOSITION OR ANYTHING IN THAT PART, IT IS A CODE AMENDMENT.
SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR TODAY BASICALLY IS GIVE US THE IDEAS OF WHAT, UH, YOU WOULD LIKE THAT MEMBERSHIP FOR TASK FORCE FOR THE FAIR PARK TASK FORCE TO BE.
AND THEN WE'LL PROBABLY COME BACK NEXT MONTH AND THEN, UM, AND FINALIZE IT, AND THEN TAKE IT TO CITY COUNCIL.
SO IT WOULD BE A CODE AMENDMENT.
UH, WE PROBABLY WILL ALSO TAKE IT, UM, TO, UH, THE AD HOC COMMITTEE TOO, TO PUT INTO THEIR LIST.
UH, THE DOCUMENT THAT, UH, WAS SENT TO US, I, I WASN'T QUITE CLEAR, IS, IS THAT THE REQUIREMENTS CURRENTLY? OR IS THAT THE PROPOSED REQUIREMENTS? THAT'S THE CURRENT, WHAT YOU HAVE, WHAT WAS SENT OUT, UH, EARLIER IS THE CURRENT.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR US, A SUGGESTION.
IF THERE'S, FIRST OF ALL, WELL, A QUESTION FIRST OF ALL, IS THERE A LIMIT ON HOW MANY, UH, MEMBERS CAN BE ON THAT FAIR PART TASK FORCE? WELL, THE, UH, RULES AND PROCEDURES STATE THAT THE MEMBERSHIP OF EACH TASK FORCE SHALL BE COMPOSED OF SEVEN REGULAR MEMBERS.
SO THAT'S FOR EVERY TASK FORCE THAT WE HAVE AT THE CITY LEVEL.
UH, DOES THAT SO THAT, THAT'S A HARD AND SET RULE? WELL, IF YOU WANNA CHANGE THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS, THAT'S A CODE AMENDMENT, THEN FOR THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS ON, OR YOU, I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE TO MAYBE REFER TO THE CITY ATTORNEY OR YOU COULD SAY THAT BECAUSE THE FAIR PARK TASK FORCE IS IT'S, UH, ALREADY RECOGNIZED AS BEING UNIQUE BECAUSE FAIR PARK IS OWNED BY THE CITY.
AND SO YOU MIGHT GO AHEAD IN THERE AND SAY, UH, WE WANT TO ALSO ADD IN THAT WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THE NUMBER OF TASK FORCE MEMBERS BECAUSE FAIR PARK IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.
IT'S OWNED BY THE CITY, IT'S RUN BY PARKS, IT'S, YOU KNOW,
[03:15:01]
THE STATE FAIR.SO YOU WOULD, UM, YOU COULD ADD SOME LANGUAGE IN.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADD, UH, FOR A TOTAL OF THREE FAIR PARK RESIDENTS, ONE IS NOT SUFFICIENT, ESPECIALLY IF THAT ONE IS UNABLE TO MAKE THE MEETINGS.
UH, THERE'S NO INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY.
SO I, MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADD, UH, TO HAVE A TOTAL OF THREE FAIR PARK RESIDENTS ON THAT TASK FORCE.
THAT, THAT WOULD GIVE PLENTY OF VOICE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, DID COMMISSIONER JAJU, DID I MISS YOU? COMMISSIONER PREZI? SO THE PAPER THAT WE WERE GIVEN TODAY, THAT IS THE EXISTING, OKAY.
SO AS IT READS TODAY, IT SAYS THE FAIR PARK TASK FORCE HAS UNIQUE CONSTRAINTS AND REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE FAIR PARK HAS A SINGLE OWNER, THE CITY OF DALLAS IS A NATIONAL HISTORIC LANDMARK IS A STATE ARCHEOLOGICAL LANDMARK.
THE FAIR PARK TASK FORCE SHALL CONSIST OF A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE FAIR, A REPRESENTATIVE OF FRIENDS OF FAIR PARK, A REPRESENTATIVE OF ONE OTHER STAKEHOLDER OR TENANT OF FAIR PARK, AND THEN FOUR PROFESSIONALS WHO PRACTICED IN THE FIELD OF ARCHITECTURE, HISTORIC PRESERVATION, ENGINEERING, LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURE, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORY, URBAN DESIGN AND PLANNING, ARCHEOLOGY OR HISTORIC REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT.
OF THE FOUR PROFESSIONAL MEMBERS, AT LEAST TWO MUST HAVE ARCHITECTURAL OR ENGINEERING TRAINING, AND AT LEAST TWO MUST HAVE DEMONSTRATED ACTIVE HIS, UH, PRES PROFESSIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION EXPERTISE.
AND ONE OF THE PROFESSIONAL MEMBERS MAY SATISFY MORE THAN ONE OF THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR PROFESSIONAL.
I THINK MR. FELL YOU HAD HER LIGHT ON FIRST.
UM, SO MY RECOMMENDATION, THE, THE REPRESENTATIVE OF PRINCE OF FAIR PARK, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS ITS INTENTION WAS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF TRUST IN THE CITY.
AND SO IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SERVING AS A, AS A WATCHDOG OF SORTS.
THE ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN ABSORBED BY THE OTHER, AND I NO LONGER THINK THAT THERE IS THAT SAME LEVEL OF CONCERN OVER WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY IS OR ISN'T MAKING DECISIONS IN ITS, IN ITS BEST INTEREST.
UM, I THINK THE REPRESENTATIVE OF A OTHER STAKEHOLDER OR TENANT, UM, IS STILL HIGHLY RELEVANT.
I THINK STAKEHOLDERS A SQUISHY WORD THAT, UM, IS HIGHLY INTERPRETIVE.
AND SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE RESIDENT INSTITUTION OR TENANT, BECAUSE RESIDENT INSTITUTION MORE ACCURATELY REFLECTS WHAT I THINK THE INTENTION WAS, WHICH IS, UH, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE, WHETHER THAT BE THE MUSICAL HALL OR MUSEUMS, UM, DISCOVERY GARDEN, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
AND THE, AND TENANT ALSO PROVIDES THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, NIMBLENESS IN THE FUTURE TO ACCOMMODATE THAT.
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE TWO COMMUNITY MEMBERS.
I BELIEVE THE FAIR PARK FIRST BOARD AT, AT LEAST IN, IN THE VERY BEGINNING, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION OVER, I, I BELIEVE IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT ZIP CODES THAT THEY WANTED REPRESENTED.
AND I, I THINK THE INTENTION WAS TO TRY TO PICK UP MAYBE BOTH DISTRICT SEVEN AND, AND PERHAPS PORTIONS OF DISTRICT TWO PERHAPS.
UM, BUT I, I JUST, I CAN'T, I CAN'T FIND IT ONLINE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO IF, IF MY MEMORY IS SERVING ME CORRECTLY AND, AND THAT WAS THE CASE, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO MODEL IT OFF OF THAT.
UM, AND WOULD ADD, ADD THOSE TWO IN REGARDS TO THE, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTATIVE, UM, TO, TO ACT AS THAT WATCHDOG OF SORTS? I, I CONTINUE TO NOT REALLY UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF PUTTING, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM FAIR PARK FIRST ON THERE.
THEY HAVE TO RECUSE THEMSELVES WHEN THEY PROCURE THEIR CONTRACTS, WHICH IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME.
UM, SO THEY DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO FORUM IN THAT CASE.
UM, I, SO I, I I WOULD SWITCH THAT ONE.
I, I WOULD REMOVE THAT ONE AND THOSE ARE THE RECOMMENDED CHANGES THAT I WOULD MAKE.
I WOULD GROW THE BOARD BY TWO, UM, AS OPPOSED TO, UH, THREE, ALTHOUGH YOU COULD GROW IT BY TWO, UM, REGULAR MEMBERS AND YOU CAN GROW IT BY ONE ALTERNATE SO THAT YOU HAD A THIRD ALTERNATE THAT IS A COMMUNITY MEMBER AS A, A, UM, COMPROMISE OF SORTS OF WHAT MS. OSA WAS PROPOSING.
COULD I ASK YOU TO CLARIFY, COMMISSIONER BEI, UM, I TALK ABOUT THE TWO ZIP FILL STUFF.
ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE GEOGRAPHIC DIVERSITY IN THE RESIDENTS? THAT THEY COME FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE, OF THE COMPANY? YOU KNOW, I, UM, THERE, THERE WERE A TON OF DISCUSSIONS LIKE BACK IN 2018, I GUESS IT WAS PERHAPS, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, BUT, UM, I, I, I, I, I BELIEVE IT, IT WAS TWO, TWO ZIP CODES THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO ACHIEVE A SORT OF GEOGRAPHIC
[03:20:01]
COMMUNITY INPUT.UM, IF I'M WRONG, I APOLOGIZE, BUT, UM, I, WHATEVER THE INTENTION WAS BEHIND THE WAY THAT WAS INITIALLY SET UP IS WHAT MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO MODEL, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT GROUP WAS TRYING TO GET AT IS WHAT THIS, UM, UM, EFFORT IS TRYING TO GET AT AS WELL, WHICH IS THAT LOCALIZED, UM, INPUT, IF YOU WILL.
SO IF, IF I'VE GOT THIS RIGHT, YOU WOULD, WE WOULD JUST CLARIFY THAT STAKEHOLDER HAS TO BE A RESIDENT INSTITUTION OR TENANT, UM, AND THAT'S NOT FAIR
I MEAN THE, THE A RESIDENT INSTITUTION OR A, A TENANT I THINK WAS THE INTENTION WAS TO HAVE LIKE THE NEW MUSEUMS OR YEAH.
SO WOULD YOU BE SUGGESTING WE STRIKE THE REPRESENTATIVE OF FRIENDS OF FAIR PARK WHEREAS CURRENTLY WE'RE KIND OF SUBSTITUTING FAIR PARK FIRST? UM, I, I, I WOULD FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT, UM, IF THE INTENTION BEHIND THAT PARTICULAR LINE ITEM WAS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF TRUST IN THE CITY TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS ABOUT PRESERVATION OF THE PROPERTY, UM, TO REPLACE IT WITH FAIR PARK FIRST IS THAT THAT IS NOT IN ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT THE INTENTION WAS.
I, AT THE SAME TIME, I, I MEAN IF, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THEM CONTINUE TO SERVE ON THERE, THAT'S FINE.
THEY, THEY ALSO CONTINUE TO RECUSE THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DO THE CONTRACT, SO THEY'RE NOT VOTING ON IT.
UM, BUT I, I MEAN OKAY, BUT I THINK WE COULD ALL SAY THAT IF THERE IS NO FRIENDS OF FAIR PARK ANYMORE, WE NEED TO GET RID OH YOU DEFINITELY NEED TO GET RID OF THAT ONE.
SO NO MATTER WHAT, WE NEED TO CROSS THAT OUT BECAUSE IT'S NO LONGER APPLICABLE OR DOABLE AS, AS I UNDERSTAND COMMISSIONER SHERMAN OR COMMISSIONER ANDERSON FIRST.
WELL, I JUST WANTED TO VERIFY THAT INDEED FRIENDS OF FAIR PARK NO LONGER EXISTS OR HAS BEEN FOLDED INTO FAIR PARK FIRST AND IT STILL EXISTS IN A DIFFERENT REALM.
DO WE KNOW, DOES ANYBODY KNOW FRIENDS OF FAIR PARK IS DISSOLVED OR HAVE THEY BEEN I CAN SPEAK TO THAT AND SPEAKING TO BRIAN WELLEN, WHO'S OVER FAIR PARK FOR FIRST IN JANUARY, FRIENDS OF FAIR PARK WILL BECOME A PART OF FAIR PARK FIRST, RIGHT? IT WOULD NO LONGER SEPARATE ENTITY AS A SEPARATE ENTITY? NO, BECAUSE THE INIT, I MEAN IT WAS, IT'S ALWAYS KIND OF A LIKE, LIKE A VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION, SORT OF LIKE THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION GROUP FOR FRIENDS OF THIRD PARK OF NOT, NOT RELATED TO ANY OF THE OTHER.
MY BIG CONCERN IS THAT WITH FAIR PARK FIRST COMING IN, THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S AN EVEN VOTE THAT ONE GROUP DOESN'T OVERS SHINE THE OTHER GROUP.
I MEAN, IF WE GET TOO MANY PEOPLE FROM ONE ORGANIZATION AND THEY CAN KIND OF DICTATE HOW THINGS GO, AND I BELIEVE THAT AS WELL AS PEOPLE MUST BE REPRESENTED, WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR HISTORIC PRESERVATION ARCHITECTS AND KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE ON FAIR PARKS AND ITS SPECIAL, UH, CONSIDERATION SHOULD, YOU KNOW, BE THERE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING THAT WE NEED, MAY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE TWO LOPSIDED IN ONE OR AREA OR THE OTHER.
COM UH, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, I AM A LITTLE UNCLEAR ABOUT, UM, WHAT CREATES FAIR PARK FIRST.
IS IT AN EVER GOING NOW, HENCE FOR ADDING AN ITEM ORGANIZATION? OR IS IT JUST TO REVAMP THEIR PART? UM, IS ITS MISSION GONNA BE ACCOMPLISHED AT SOME POINT OR IS IT FOR ALL ETERNITY? I I, I THINK THEY OPERATE LIKE SOME OTHERS DO.
LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE ZOO AND STUFF, THEY HAVE A MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY THAT THEY WILL BE THE MANAGERS FOR A GIVEN TIME.
OF COURSE, WHEN THAT AGREEMENT IS UP, IT COULD BE RENEWED OR IT COULD BE CHANGED OR IT COULD BE ENDED.
MA'AM, SOMEONE FROM FAIR PARTY.
COMMISSIONER T WE'VE GOT A COUPLE HERE.
OH, YOUR MICROPHONE'S ON, ON, I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
WOULD SOMEONE FROM FAIR PARK FIRST QUALIFY AS EITHER RESIDENT INSTITUTE INSTITUTION OR I CAN, I THINK WE JUST CLARIFIED THAT AT LEAST COMMISSIONER SCH AND I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER IF IT BE ONE OF THE NON-PROFITS THAT OPERATE WITHIN IT, WHETHER YOU FAIR, FAIR PARK FIRST MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER ROLE, BUT THEY KIND OF OVERSEE THE THING AND THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY TRYING TO RUN A MUSEUM OR A MUSICAL THEATER INSIDE OF IT AND HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT.
BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF WE WERE TO INCORPORATE THE LANGUAGE OF FAIR PARK FIRST DECLARING IT AS AN ENTITY AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE AROUND FOREVER, THAT THAT JUST SETS US UP FOR FURTHER REVISION REVISION IN THE FUTURE.
[03:25:02]
WE MIGHT BE SOME WAY OF STATE IMPLYING IT, BUT NOT STATING IT.YEAH, I MEAN ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT OF IT IS THAT IF, IF THERE WAS A WAY TO, UM, AND I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, I HAVE HAVEN'T SAT DOWN AND THOUGHT ABOUT THIS COMPLETELY, BUT IS THERE WAY, A WAY TO NOTE THAT THE, LIKE, UM, A MANAGEMENT OR NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT OVERSEES FAIR PARK TO HAVE MORE GENERIC LANGUAGE, SO WE'RE NOT DOING A CODE AMENDMENT EVERY FIVE YEARS OR SOMETHING, BUT WE FIGURE OUT, AND AGAIN, I HAVEN'T THOUGHT THROUGH THE LANGUAGE, BUT SOME TYPE OF LANGUAGE THAT WOULD BASICALLY FAIR PARK FIRST COULD FIT INTO THAT CARE CATEGORY OR ANOTHER ENTITY THAT IS SIMILAR TO THAT WOULD FIT INTO IT DEPENDING ON WHAT THE MANAGEMENT STRUCTURE, WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FUTURE, IF THERE'S ANOTHER NONPROFIT, BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING IS FAIR PARK FIRST A NONPROFIT, ISN'T IT SET UP, UH, AS A NONPROFIT? OKAY, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.
SO I'M, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOME GENERIC LANGUAGE FOR SOMETHING.
TYPICALLY IN THE PAST, SOMEBODY FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS PARK DEPARTMENT WAS ON THE TASK FORCE, WHICH KIND OF REPRESENTED IN QUOTES, THE OWNERSHIP.
SO DOES THE CITY OF DALLAS STILL OWN THE PARK, BUT THEY HAVE GIVEN MANAGEMENT RESPONSIBILITIES TO FAIR PARK FIRST? CORRECT.
SO I I AGREE WITH, UM, MS. SINGLETON THAT PROBABLY WRITING IS SOMETHING ABOUT A MANAGER OR, UM, FIND THAT IT'S THE CORRECT TERM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REALLY THE OWNER.
THEY WOULD BE THE REPRESENTATIVE OF MANAGEMENT OF FAIR PARK COMMISSIONER OFFICE.
I, AND I'M NOT EXACTLY, UM, CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO PUT WORDS IN COMMISSIONER OZ'S MOUTH, BUT I I WAS THINKING THAT WHERE SHE WAS GOING WITH HER COMMENT WAS WHEN WE WERE TALKING, SHE, UH, MADE THE RECOMMENDATION TO ADD RESIDENT.
UM, AND I WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT ADDING RESIDENT.
UH, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW WE GET THERE IN TERMS OF ALL OF THE OTHER QUALIFICATIONS.
AND I GUESS MY CONCERN ABOUT, BECAUSE I TRULY BELIEVE THERE NEEDS TO BE A COUPLE OF RESIDENTS ON THAT BOARD.
UM, AND WHILE WE MAY ALL, UH, CURRENTLY ENJOY THE POLITICAL SUPPORT OF THE COUNCIL, UH, AS ALL OF US KNOW, THAT CAN CHANGE EVERY TWO YEARS.
UM, SO WE MAY NOT ALWAYS HAVE THAT.
AND I THINK IT'S CRITICAL TO HAVE THOSE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN, UM, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF AND DEPRIVED IN THAT AREA TO, TO HAVE AN ONGOING SAY IN WHAT GOES GOES ON IN THAT PART.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE ARRIVED THERE, BUT I THINK THAT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
I THINK WE HAVE MANY OF US AGREE THAT THERE SHOULD BE REPRESENTATIVES FROM, FROM THE PEOPLE NEARBY TOO.
AND COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA HAS A FOLLOW UP.
UH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS EXPRESSING AND I DO LIKE, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER PELOSI'S, UH, SUGGESTION.
IF SHE MEANT TWO RESIDENTS AND AN ALTERNATE, I WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO THAT.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A A FAIR, FAIR OFFER.
WHAT STAFF CAN DO IS WE CAN LOOK INTO, UH, THE LANGUAGE THAT FAIR PARK FIRST USES FOR THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND WE CAN BRING THIS BACK NEXT MONTH AS A RECOMMENDATION WRITTEN OUT TO YOU.
SO I HAVE A LITTLE MORE TIME TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO PHRASE THE, UM, MAYBE AS, UH, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON SAID A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE O UH, OF THE OWNER OF THE PARK, UH, TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT.
AND I CAN BRING YOU BACK SOME LANGUAGE FOR YOU ALL TO, UM, TO LOOK AT THAT.
UH, I THINK WE CAN GET PRETTY CLOSE TO THERE WITH YOUR REMARKS THAT YOU'VE MADE TODAY.
I ACTUALLY SAID THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THE PARK BECAUSE IF THE CITY DALLAS OWNS IT AND SOMEBODY ELSE MANAGES IT, AND I AGREE WITH YOU, IF MANAGEMENT OF THE PARK CHANGES IN FIVE YEARS, IT'S STILL COVERED.
[03:30:01]
I HAVE A, A QUESTION AND THAT IS IN THE LAST MONTH.MY SUGGESTION IS THAT WE WAIT ON APPROVING THE TASK FORCE BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING THIS IN DECEMBER.
SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE GROUP THAT WAS JUST APPROVED VERSUS ONCE YOU MAKE THE CHANGE? 'CAUSE I THOUGHT YOU COULD ONLY REMOVE PEOPLE FOR, CAUSE I MEAN THEIR APPOINTMENT WAS FOR TWO YEARS.
SO, WELL, MY THINKING ON THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW THE ONE WHO PUSHED IT FORWARD LAST TIME, WE NEED TO HAVE AN OFFICIAL TASK FORCE IN PLACE.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT'LL TAKE TO GET APPROVAL FROM THE HIGHER UPS ON THIS.
WHO KNOWS WHAT WELL, HOW LONG IT'LL TAKE TO GET ON THE AGENDA FOR THE CITY COUNCIL.
WHO KNOWS WHAT THOSE ATTORNEYS WILL REVIEW EVERYTHING WILL HOLD US UP WITH YOU JUST CAN'T KNOW THOSE THINGS.
AND I WANTED TO GET US A TASK PERSON IN PLACE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN ADJUST ONCE WE HAVE APPOINTED, BUT IF THEY WERE TO SERVE ABOUT ONE YEAR THAT THIS WOULD BE THE NEW ONE NEXT TIME WE GO DOWN.
SO MAYBE TWO YEARS OR ONE MORE QUESTION.
DOES THE CURRENT FAIR PARK TASK FORCE MEMBERSHIP FOLLOW WHAT'S ON THE PAGE HERE TODAY? YES.
SO THERE ARE NO REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? NOT YET.
AND AND EVERYBODY FILLS THESE SPOTS APPROPRIATELY.
OF COURSE, TASK FORCE MEETINGS ARE PUBLIC MEETINGS.
ANYBODY CAN COME AND EXPRESS THEIR OPINION.
THE, UM, I DON'T, AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET THERE.
UH, BY THE WAY, IF WE PROBABLY NEED TO CONSIDER INCREASING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THAT PARTICULAR TASK FORCE BECAUSE IT, IT IS SUCH A SPECIAL THING AND WE NEED MORE INPUT FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND, AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET THERE, NOT TALKING ABOUT NECESSARILY THE RESIDENTS, UM, OF THOSE HIGH RISES THAT ARE BEING BUILT AND DEVELOPED THAT BORDER, UM, FAIR PARK OR, UH, THOSE VERY EXPENSIVE LAWS ACROSS THE STREET FROM FAIR PARK.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS AND RESIDENTS OF FAIR PARK.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT ABOUT IS GOING MORE TOWARDS THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND ASKING THEM FOR REPRESENTATIVES BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD BE MORE ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE OTHER THING I THOUGHT ABOUT IS ARE THERE, UM, BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA OF THE PARK THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED? YOU KNOW, DO YOU WANT A SPOT FOR A BUSINESS OWNER, SOMEONE WHO OWNS A LOCAL BUSINESS RIGHT BY FAIR PARK? SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO THINK OF.
UM, I CAN FIX THIS UP AND UH, YOU CAN REVIEW IT IN JANUARY AND LET ME KNOW, UH, WHAT YOU THINK AT THAT TIME.
IT WILL BE A VOTING ITEM OR WE WILL VOTE TO DO WHATEVER YOU WRITE OR AMEND IT AND, AND VOTE ON THAT FOR YOU TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE LEGAL PROCESS.
SO I THINK THAT'S, DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE ARE NOW, EXCEPT, UM, UNLESS ANYBODY OBJECTS TO OUR ANNUAL REPORT, WE NEED A, A VOTE THAT WE APPROVE IT
SO SOMEONE WILL MAKE A MOVE A MOTION ON THAT
SECOND, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER RENO.
ANYBODY, UM, I'M SURE YOU HAVE NO COMMENTS.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS? AYE, AYE.
I HAVE A LETTER HERE SAYING WE APPROVED IT TO SIGN THEY PRE-PRINTED THAT.
ASSUMING THAT WE WERE GOING TO GO WITH THAT.
DO WE ALSO HAVE THE SCHEDULING ISSUE ON OUR OH YEAH.
SO THERE'S ONE, ONE THING, UM, WE, ON THE JANUARY CALENDAR, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MEET ON THE SECOND.
AND, UM, IF, UH, WE WERE LOOKING AT OUR INTERNAL CALENDAR TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHETHER STAFF COULD MEET THAT, INCLUDING YOUR CHARMING CITY ATTORNEY AND, UH, OUR WONDERFUL, UM, COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR.
AND SO WE'RE NOT SURE WE CAN PULL THAT OFF WITH CHRISTMAS, BE IN THE DAY IT IS.
UM, SO WE WOULD LIKE YOUR CONSIDERATION IN MOVING THE MEETING TO JANUARY 8TH.
AND WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF WE DID THAT, IF YOU VOTED FOR THAT, IF WE WOULD HAVE A QUORUM THAT DAY, IT WOULD JUST BE THE FOLLOWING MONDAY.
I WAS CONCERNED THAT SOME OF YOU MIGHT HAVE JOBS, BUT
[03:35:03]
I, I, I, I FIGURED THAT SOME OF YOU HAVE MORE STRUCTURED JOBS WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE THERE ON CERTAIN DAYS AND SOME OF US ARE MORE FREE AGENTS IN OUR, OUR WORK LIKE, YOU KNOW, FOUNDATION LEADER, PEOPLE LIKE THAT AND SUCH.DO YOU NEED, WHAT WAS THAT COMMISSIONER OFFIT, DO YOU NEED A MOTION? WE DO NEED A MOTION.
WHO WANTS TO MAKE THAT YOU WANT? I'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON THAT MAKE A MOTION.
I MOVE THAT WE, UH, RESCHEDULE THE JANUARY, UH, LANDMARK COMMISSION DATE TO JANUARY THE EIGHTH.
AND COMMISSIONER OFFIT SECONDED THAT.
ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, WE HAVE DONE THAT.
PLEASE SECURE US A DECENT ROOM WHEN WE CHANGE DATES.
SOMETIMES WE END UP IN THE BASEMENT.
I'LL DO MY VERY BEST FIGHT FOR US.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A REQUEST, PLEASE.
I AM, I'M, UH, I KNOW, I KNOW ALL OF YOU, BUT FOR MY RECORDINGS WHEN I'M GOING TO BE GETTING APPEALED ON SOMETHING I NEED TO KNOW OR THE, THE RECORD NEEDS TO SAY.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, I, I AM, UH, MAKING THE MOTION.
COMMISSIONER DU IT NEEDS TO BE SAID ON THE RECORD SO THAT WHEN I ASK FOR THAT, THEY'LL HAVE IT.
WE'LL TRY COMMISSIONER SELFIE ON THE 2024 CALENDAR, THERE WAS ONE OF THE DATES, AND I THINK IT IS IN MARCH WHERE, UM, IT SAYS MARCH, UH, FIFTH I BELIEVE, INSTEAD OF MARCH 4TH.
UM, THAT WAS, THAT, THAT WAS MY ASSUMPTION.
JUST DON'T MEAN MARCH 5TH OF TUESDAY.
UM, BUT I, WE HAD ON SHOW PROOF, BUT, UM OKAY.
'CAUSE WE USUALLY ONLY MOVE IT TO TUESDAY ON THOSE MONDAY HOLIDAYS, THE BIG ONES, YOU KNOW, SO SHOULD BE MARCH 4TH.
SHALL WE HAVE A MOTION FOR THAT MR. PRES? YOUR MICROPHONES ON.
YOU COULD, OH, YOU WEREN'T LISTENING.
I MOVE THAT WE, UH, CHANGED THE DATE IN THE CALENDAR FROM MARCH 5TH TO MARCH 4TH, SO IT REPRESENTS THE MONDAY MEETING OF THAT WEEK.
SECOND, AND THAT WAS COMMISSIONER PREZI MAKING THE MOTION AND COMMISSIONER SECOND.
WE'LL HAVE TO PRACTICE THAT NEW HABIT.
ALL RIGHT, EVERYONE IN FAVOR OF THIS, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ALRIGHT, WE WILL SEE YOU ON MONDAY IN MARCH AND ON A MONDAY IN JANUARY.
IS THAT IT? FOR ALL OF OUR BUSINESS.
IT IS 4 44 AND I'M SAYING THAT THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
UH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER INA, I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION SHEET FOR, FOR THAT MOTION OF CHANGING THE, THE DATE IN JANUARY.
DO I? IN MY COLORFUL? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU'RE BACK AND HOPE, HOPE YOU'RE FINE.
AND UH, YOU HAVE A NICE CHRISTMAS.