[Permit and License Appeal Board on February 1, 2024.]
[00:00:04]
GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND WELCOME TO THE HEARING OF THE FIRST PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.
IT IS NOW 8 46 ON THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST, 2024, AND WE HAVE TWO HEARINGS ON TODAY'S AGENDA.
THE FIRST FOR COWBOYS, RED RIVER, APPEALING THE DENIAL OF A DANCE HALL, LATE HOURS PERMIT, AND THE SECOND FOR HICKORY TRAILS, EE HOLDINGS, LLC, APPEALING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DESIGNATION AS AN INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.
AT THIS TIME, I WILL DO A BULK CALL, UH, IF PRESENT, PLEASE SAY HERE, EVENT SNICK.
UH, SO ABSENT OR, AND THIS MEETING IS NOW CALLED ORDER WILL THE OTHER PRESENT AT TODAY'S HEARING, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, BEGINNING WITH THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL.
AND FROM THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE, LAVA MARTINEZ, DONNA BROWN, AND, UH, THE APPELLANT IN THE FIRST HEARING.
CRAIG SHIELDS AND ROGER ALBRIGHT, OUR COUNSEL FOR COWBOYS RED RIVER.
AND CARRIE WADE IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE FROM COWBOYS RED RIVER.
SHE IS STILL TRYING TO GET IN.
MS. BROWN, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEND HER ANOTHER LINK? UH, WE'LL, WE'LL FIND THAT OUT AND, UH, BARRY OR DONNA WILL, UH, EMAIL YOU.
UM, WHO DO WE HAVE FOR THE, UH, SECOND HEARING ON YET? HONORABLE CHAIR.
MAY I BE RECOGNIZED BRIEFLY, UH, MR. HERNANDEZ? YES.
UH, I BELIEVE CARD SURA, I JUST SAW HIM LOG IN, BUT, UM, THEY'VE BEEN HAVING SOME TECH ISSUES.
I THINK THEY'RE STILL WORKING THAT OUT, BUT I THINK HE CAN, UH, SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.
BUT, UH, THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ASK IS IF YOU COULD KINDLY SPEAK INTO THE, UH, MICROPHONE A LITTLE BIT MORE.
IT MIGHT BE OUR AUDIO, UM, BUT IT'S KIND OF HARD TO, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BASEY AND HARD TO TO HEAR YOUR, YOUR QUESTIONS.
UM, WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT ROOM OTHER THAN WHERE WE USUALLY ARE, AND SO I'M NOT REALLY SURE HOW TO SET UP, BUT I WILL TRY TO SPEAK LOUDLY, BUT IF ANYBODY, IF AT ANY TIME YOU CANNOT HEAR ME, UH, LET ME KNOW.
SO, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE FIRST HEARING, FORGIVE ME TO INTERRUPT, UH, BUT I DID JUST GET ACCESS.
I'M THE ATTORNEY FOR THE APPELLANT IN THE SECOND HEARING, UM, BEFORE YOU PROCEED.
NO, UH, THANK YOU, MR. SINGAPORE.
AND, UH, DO YOU HAVE A WITNESS? WE DO.
UM, AND I BELIEVE AS, AS MR. HERNANDEZ WAS KIND ENOUGH TO POINT OUT, THERE'S, THEY'RE HAVING SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH THE LINK.
UM, BUT I BELIEVE WE'VE REQUESTED A NEW ONE AND HOPEFULLY SORTED BY THE TIME WE'RE CALLED.
UH, WHAT IS YOUR WITNESS'S NAME? THE FIRST IS MS. LESLIE BAIN SIMONETTE ON BEHALF OF THE OWNERSHIP GROUP.
AND THE SECOND IS MS. DEAN, UM, WHO IS A PROPERTY EMPLOYEE.
I'M SORRY, DID YOU SAY MS. DEAN? YES.
[00:05:01]
WHO DO WE HAVE AS THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE FIRST MATTER? DAVID WILKINS.AND, UH, MR. HERNANDEZ, ARE YOU HANDLING THE, UH, SECOND, UH, YES.
HONORABLE CHAIR ALONG WITH MY CO-COUNSEL, UH, MS. TRACY REEVES.
UM, AND, UH, FOR THE FIRST HEARING, MR. WILKINS, WHO DO YOU HAVE AS WITNESSES? BROOKS, I BELIEVE SHE'S ON RIGHT NOW.
AND ANYBODY ELSE? OH, NO, THAT'S IT.
AND MR. HERNANDEZ, WHO DO YOU HAVE, UH, WITNESSES? UH, HONORABLE CHAIR.
I HAVE DETECTIVE SONIA HAYNES.
WE, UH, NOW WOULD ALLOW FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON TODAY'S HEARINGS, UH, HOWEVER NO SPEAKERS HAVE REGISTERED TO ADDRESS THE BOARD.
SO THE FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM JANUARY 18TH, 2024.
UH, ALL MEMBERS SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED THE MINUTES INTO THE EMAIL.
UH, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? UH, ALL RIGHT.
I HEARD, UH, SECOND, MAKE THE MOTION.
UH, IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.
SECOND BY MR. UH, HAYES? UH, DO ANYBODY WANT TO COMMENT ON THE MOTION? SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR DISCUSSION.
ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO COMMENT ON THE MOTION? ALL RIGHT.
IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, THEN ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE 80 MINUTES FROM JANUARY 18TH, 2024, PLEASE SAY, AYE.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY.
NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS THE APPEAL HEARING FOR COWBOYS RED RIVER.
UH, EVERYBODY PRESENT THAT WE NEED FOR THAT HEARING FEELS, I KNOW MS. WADE WAS ON HERE PREVIOUSLY, BUT SHE MAY HAVE DROPPED OFF, AND SHE IS OUR ONLY WITNESS.
WHILE WE WAIT FOR A WAVE TO GET ON, UH, WE'LL DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
UH, WE ARE AD HEARING THE APPEAL REQUEST OF COWBOYS RED RIVER APPEAL, THE DENIAL OF A DAN HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT UNDER SECTION 14 DASH 3.1 OF DALLAS CITY CODE.
THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THIS HEARING IS ON THE APPELLANT.
UM, I STILL, I DON'T SEE MS. SHIELDS, SO WE'LL COME BACK TO SWEARING IN THE WITNESSES.
UM, BUT, UH, FOR THE RECORD, MR. SHIELDS, UH, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU THINK YOU NEED FOR YOUR PRESENTATION? 10 MINUTES.
UH, MR. WILKINS, 10 MINUTES ENOUGH FOR YOU.
I I'LL, I'LL PROBABLY YIELD BACK.
YOU'LL HAVE MY UNDYING GRATITUDE.
AND WE HAVE, UH, ONE EXHIBIT, UH, FROM THE APPELLANT, IS THAT CORRECT? IT IS, UH, IT IS THREE DOCUMENTS, BUT ONE EXHIBIT.
AND, UH, SAME, WE HAVE ONE EXHIBIT WITH EIGHT TABS FROM THE CITY, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
THOSE HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE.
[00:10:01]
THE CITY ATTORNEY PLEAD, READ THE RELEVANT PORTION? OKAY.DETERMINE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD.
MAY ANY ITS DISCRETION RANK LOCAL LOCATIONAL RESTRICTIONS OF SECTION 14 TO 3.1 FOR LATE HOURS, PERMIT FOR FIVE A, D, OR C INSTALL, WHICHEVER APPLIES.
IF THE COURT FINDS THAT THE LOCATION OF PROPOSED THE INSTALL WILL NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTY WILL BECOME CHERRY TO THE SAFETY OF WELFARE.
TWO, THE LOCATION, THE INSTALL WILL, WILL NOT DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUE FOR QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREA OR INFER DEVELOPMENT OF URBAN LIFE.
THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED LANDFALL ON OPERATING UNDER LATE HOURS PERMIT AND THE AREA WILL NOT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PUBLIC PROGRAM OF
AND LASTLY, ALL THEIR APPLICABLE PROVISIONS CHAPTER MS. WADE ON YET ON JUST YET CHAIR? UM, I DID RESEND THE LINK TO THE EMAIL THAT WE HAVE ON FILE.
UM, I DID ASK MR. SHIELDS IN A PRIVATE CHAT FOR HER PHONE NUMBER IF HE CAN SEND THAT TO ME.
THAT WAY I CAN HELP TROUBLESHOOT.
UM, ROGER, CAN YOU, CAN YOU DO THAT FOR US? YEAH, SURE.
UH, AND WHERE, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SEND IT? OR I JUST GIVE IT TO YOU RIGHT NOW IF YOU WANT.
WELL, I DON'T WANT YOU TO AIR THAT.
YEAH, YEAH, I WAS, THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO AVOID THAT.
LET ME SEND YOU A, A PRIVATE MESSAGE.
UM, WHAT, WHILE WE DO THAT, UH, MR. SHIELDS, DO YOU WANT TO DO YOUR OPENING? SURE.
AND THEN IF WE NEED TO, WE CAN TAKE A BRIEF RECESS, UH, AFTER THE PARTY IS OPEN, IT'S NOT GONNA BE VERY LONG.
UH, ME, MEMBERS OF THE PERMIT LICENSE APPEAL BOARD, I, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS MORNING.
UH, ROGER ALBRIGHT AND MYSELF ARE REPRESENTING COWBOYS RED RIVER, UH, ON THIS LATE HOURS, A DENIAL OF LATE HOURS PERMIT APPEAL.
UM, AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW, COWBOYS RED RIVER HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1996.
UM, IT HAS OPERATED LATE HOURS SINCE 1996, HAS BEEN A DANCE HALL SINCE 1996.
AND, UM, IT WAS ONLY RECENTLY THAT, UH, IT WAS DETERMINED THAT THERE WAS A, AN APARTMENT COMPLEX WITHIN 905 FEET OF, UH, THE, THE ESTABLISHMENT.
AND, UH, ACCORDINGLY, THE DPD DENIED OUR REQUEST.
AND, UM, FOR, FOR THIS LATE HOUR PERMITS TODAY, THE, OUR TESTIMONY WILL SHOW THAT, UH, THIS HAS BEEN A, A GOOD NEIGHBOR, A GOOD ESTABLISHMENT IN DALLAS FOR 30 YEARS.
UM, UH, MS. WADE, WHEN WE FINALLY FIND HER WE'LL, WILL TESTIFY ABOUT THE SECURITY MEASURES AND, UM, ALL THE OTHER ACTIONS THAT COWBOYS RED RIVERS TAKES TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS DOES NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON, UH, NEARBY PROPERTIES AND DOES NOT DOWNGRADE THE VALUES OF ANY OF THE PROPERTIES.
UM, UH, SO IT, IT SHOULD BE A, A, A RELATIVELY, UH, UH, SHORT TO THE POINT.
UM, THEY, THEY, AND, AND I WILL TELL YOU, THEY ONLY OP, THEY ONLY STAY OPEN UNTIL THREE O'CLOCK EVERY NIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT SHE WILL TESTIFY TO.
THEY, THEY QUIT SERVING EVERYTHING AT 2:00 AM.
UM, AFTER THAT, THE TESTIMONY WILL SHOW THAT, THAT, THAT THEY GIVE OUT FREE SOFT DRINKS OR COFFEE OR WATER THAT ANYBODY WANTS IT, AND THEN SLOWLY LET FOLKS GO HOME.
WHEN YOU'VE GOT SIX, 800 PEOPLE GOING OUT INTO TRAFFIC ALL AT ONCE, IT JUST MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE AND IT'S A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE FOR THEM TO, UH, GO OUT SLOWLY.
SO STAYING OPEN PAST 2:00 AM ACTUALLY IS JUST A PURE EXPENSE FOR THE COMPANY.
AND, UH, THEY, THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY DOING THAT.
IT'S JUST REALLY FOR THE SECURITY AND WELFARE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE HIGHWAYS AND THE CUSTOMERS.
SO THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT OUR PRESENTATION WILL SHOW TODAY.
UH, MS. WILKINS, DO YOU WANT TO PROVIDE A BRIEF OPENING?
[00:15:01]
NO, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.UH, MR. CHAIR ROCKS ARE ALL RIGHT.
I RECEIVED NOTHING FROM STAFF, SO I DON'T, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW I CAN'T BE OF ANY, ANY HELP.
I MEAN, I HAVE CARRIE'S NUMBER, BUT, UH, UH, AGAIN, I WAS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, NOT BROADCAST IT TO THE WORLD.
UH, PLEASE DON'T, UM, WE WILL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RESET TO GET THAT SORTED OUT, AND THEN WE WILL BE BACK AT, UH, 9 0 6.
AND MR. ALBRIGHT, IF YOU DON'T MIND, UM, CAN YOU CALL ME TROUBLE CONNECTING? HOWEVER, WE'RE GONNA NEED TO, UH, PROCEED, UH, AND HOPEFULLY SHE, UH, CAN GET CONNECTED AT SOME POINT DURING THE, UH, APPELL PRESENTATION.
SO, UH, UNDERSTAND THAT THE CITY HAS ONE WITNESS.
UH, ARE THE WITNESSES PRESENT? WERE THE SECOND HEARING.
I'M, I'M SORRY, HONORABLE CHAIR.
WERE YOU REFERENCING THE SECOND HEARING? YES, THE WITNESS.
I'M, I'M SORRY, I'M TRYING, I'M HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
I, I UNDERSTOOD THE YES PART, BUT, UH, YEAH, SORRY.
THEN LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE TO SWEAR IN, UH, ALL THE WITNESSES FOR BOTH HEARINGS.
THERE MAY BE A DELAY WITH THE AUDIO ON MY END, CHAIRMAN, UH, BUT OUR WITNESSES HAVE NOT, UM, NOT HAD ACCESS YET.
ALRIGHT, THAT'S FINE MR. SINGAPORE, THEN WE WILL SWEAR IN JUST THE WITNESSES WHO ARE PRESENT FOR THE FIRST HEARING.
UH, I DO NEED YOU TO PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERA AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SO THAT THE CITY SECRETARY CAN SWEAR YOU IN.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH? BROOKS, RAISE YOUR HAND.
RAISE, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SHE'S GOING TO SWEAR YOU IN.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THE BOARD? I DO.
AND, UH, WE WILL NOW, NOW BEGIN WITH THE PARTIES PRESENTATIONS, UH, BEGINNING WITH COWBOYS RED RIVER.
UH, MR. SHIELDS, YOU MAY PROCEED FOR 10 MINUTES.
WELL, OBVIOUSLY, UH, I WOULD FIRST POINT OUT THAT MY CLIENT HAS STILL NOT BEEN ABLE TO, UM, JOIN THIS, UH, THIS HEARING.
AND I WOULD THEREFORE, IT, IT, IT'S A TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY.
IT IS BEYOND MY ABILITY TO REPAIR IT AND GET HER HERE.
UM, AND I WOULD THEREFORE, I HAVE TO REQUEST A CONTINUANCE OF THIS HEARING UNTIL I CAN, UH, UNTIL I CAN GET HER HERE AND IN, IN PERSON IN LIVE BEFORE YOU.
UM, AS AN ALTERNATIVE, UM, I CAN CALL ROGER ALBRIGHT TO TESTIFY.
UH, AS HE IS FAMILIAR, THIS IS A LONG TIME CLIENT OF HIS AND I COULD WALK THROUGH, UH, THROUGH HIS TESTIMONY, BUT, UH, I THINK IT'D BE MORE APPROPRIATE, UH, TO, TO GRANT A CONTINUANCE SO THAT WE CAN GET MS. WADE, UH, HERE IN PERSON AS SHE'S THE PERSON WITH MOST, THE MOST PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.
UM, I, YEAH, SINCE, UH, SINCE IT WAS THE APPELLANT'S, UH, CHOICE TO APPEAR ONLINE, UM, NO, I, I I CAN DIFFER.
WE WERE GONNA, WE WANTED TO BE THERE IN PERSON HERE.
OKAY, SO, MS. WADE, UH, ARE YOU ONLINE NOW? DO YOU HAVE HER CONNECTED CHAIR? OKAY.
UM, MS. WADE, CAN I GET YOU TO, UH, TURN ON YOUR CAMERA AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SO YOU CAN BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY? THANK YOU,
[00:20:08]
MARY, DO WE HAVE MS. WADE'S CAMERA? UM, SHE IS, SHE WAS CONNECTED TO THE MEETING, UM, BUT HER CAMERA WE'RE HAVING A LITTLE ISSUE WITH HER CAMERA.UH, WE WOULD PROPOSE MOVING FORWARD.
I I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WANNA SEE HER SWORN IN, BUT WE WOULD PROPOSE TO SWEAR HER IN VIA, AT LEAST BY HER PHONE, VIA VOICE FOR NOW, AND WE CAN GET HER AT SOME POINT TO EITHER SIGN A, AN AFFIDAVIT OR WHATEVER.
OH, I FOUND SOMEBODY THAT'S GOT HER, I SEE HER PICTURE.
CARRIE, CAN YOU HEAR ME? CAN YOU, YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU NOW.
UM, SORRY FOR THE HECTICNESS TO, TO EVERYONE THIS MORNING.
UM, CARRIE, CAN YOU, UH, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE? PLEASE? UH, LET, LET'S GET, LET'S GET, UH, MS. WAITS FIRST.
PARDON ME? PARDON? POINT OF ORDER.
UM, OKAY, I HAVE HER ON SCREEN.
FIRST THING WE'RE GONNA DO IS GET MS. WADE'S SWORN IN.
UH, MS. WADE, CAN YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? MS. WADE, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
TESTIMONY WILL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD WILL BE THE TRUTH.
DON, YOU MAY NEED TO SPEAK UP.
MS. MS. WADE, YOU CAN HEAR ME.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THE BOARD TODAY WILL BE TRUE? YES, I DO.
AND AGAIN, WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL WORK THROUGH THIS QUICKLY.
MS. WADE, CAN YOU, UH, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS? GARY WADE.
8 5 2 2 BLUE BONNET DALLAS, SEVEN FIVE C2 Z.
AND WHAT DO YOU, HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED FOR COWBOYS? RED RIVER? SINCE 1993.
AND WHAT DO YOU DO FOR COWBOYS? RED RIVER, I HANDLE ALL LEGAL MATTERS.
INSURANCE MATTERS, HIGHER MANAGEMENT.
CAN CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE, THE APPEAL BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT KIND OF NIGHTCLUB OR DANCE HALL IS COWBOYS? RED RIVER, IT'S THE COUNTRY AND WESTERN DANCE HALL.
WE HAVE, UM, WE'VE HAD NUMEROUS NATIONAL MUSICAL ACTS LIKE SIX WILLIE NELSON, KEITH URBAN, AND ON AND ON.
AND HOW LONG HAS COWBOYS RED RIVER BEEN OPERATING AT THIS LOCATION? SINCE 1996.
AND COWBOYS RED RIVER HAS A LIQUOR LICENSE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UH, SO YOU'VE HAD IT SINCE 1996, EVER.
ANY ISSUES WITH THE TABC? WE HAVE HAD A, AND NO ISSUES WITH THE SIR.
YOU, YOU'VE NEVER HAD A LIQUOR LICENSE REVOKED OR SUSPENDED OR ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT, CORRECT? NO, SIR.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE EMPLOYED BY COWBOYS? RED RIVER? UM, A
[00:25:01]
LITTLE 70 TO 75.UH, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD THE, UM, OR FOR EXAMPLE, THE OPERATIONS, THE HOURS OF OPERATIONS AND WING COWBOYS? RED RIVER IS OPEN, UH, EXCUSE ME, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAYS, SATURDAY, UH, 5:00 PM AND, AND HOW LONG HAS COWBOY RED RIVER, UM, BEEN, BEEN STAYING OPEN PAST 2:00 AM UH, SINCE 1996.
WELL, CAN, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD WHAT HAPPENS AT COWBOYS RED RIVER AT 2:00 AM I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT?
NO ONE IS ALLOWED IN YOU, AND WE ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO, TO LEAVE.
WE OFFER FREE SOFT DRINKS, FREE WATER, AND FREE COFFEE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HEARD YOU RIGHT.
YOU SAID THE, THE CASH REGISTERS ARE CLOSED AT 2:00 AM CORRECT? YES.
THE MARKET IS ACTUALLY COUNTED OUT THE REGISTERS.
SO THERE'S NO, NO MORE TRANSACTIONS, NO, NO REVENUES THAT COME IN AFTER 2:00 AM CORRECT? CORRECT.
WE MAKE NO MONEY FROM TWO TO 30.
AND, AND YOU ONLY STAY OPEN TILL 3:00 AM IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR POLICY, WHAT IS COWBOYS RED RIVER POLICY ON THE CONDUCT OF ITS EMPLOYEES AND SECURITY PERSONNEL AFTER 2:00 AM THE POLICY IS, I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT QUESTION.
WELL, WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR STAYING OPEN BETWEEN TWO AND 3:00 AM? WELL, IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE AND IT'S A SECURITY, UH, ON OUR BUSY NIGHTS, THURSDAYS AND SATURDAYS, IT'S NOT, UM, UNREAL TO THINK THAT THERE'S BETWEEN 800 AND A THOUSAND PEOPLE.
SO INSTEAD OF PUSHING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE OUT THE DOOR AT 2:00 AM WE GIVE 'EM THE EXTRA HOUR, STAGGER THEM OUT.
AND DO YOU THINK THAT HELPS WITH TRAFFIC? ABSOLUTELY.
UM, AS, AS FAR AS, UM, UH, IN THE YOU, DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE CITY'S EXHIBITS BEFORE THIS HEARING? YES.
AND, AND DID YOU NOTICE THAT THERE WAS, UM, SOME POLICE SERVICE CALLS LISTED IN, IN THEIR EXHIBITS? YES.
IN THE ONE YEAR PERIOD, I THINK THERE WAS 21 SERVICE CALLS LISTED, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, YES.
SO IN, IN A YEAR PERIOD, UM, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT A DANCEHALL WITH AN OCCUPANCY LIMIT OF NEARLY 2000, THIS IS A PRETTY LOW NUMBER OF INCIDENTS OVER A ONE YEAR PERIOD? YES.
AND NOT ALL THOSE INCIDENTS HAPPENED BECAUSE OF COWBOYS.
IS THERE ONE THAT HAPPENED ACROSS THE STREET AT FLAMINGO? YES.
DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU? NO.
UM, DID YOU ALSO NOTE THAT THERE WERE THREE ALLEGED ROBBERIES THAT TOOK PLACE AFTER 4:00 AM WOULD, WOULD COWBOYS RED RIVER BEEN OPEN FOR BUSINESS DURING ANY OF THOSE HOURS? NO.
YEAH, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US.
AND THERE WAS ALSO A MAJOR DISTURBANCE LISTED AT, ON A SUNDAY MORNING AT APPROXIMATELY 9:00 AM WOULD, UH, COWBOYS RED RIVER HAVE BEEN CLOSED FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME PRIOR TO THAT? YES.
COULD YOU, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD THE SECURITY MEASURES THAT COWBOYS RED RIVERS TAKES TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE CUSTOMERS AND THE EMPLOYEES AND THE NEARBY PROPERTIES? UH, WE HIRED $6 BLUE FOX, UH, FOR THURSDAYS AND SATURDAY,
WE BOUGHT A BRAND NEW CHIEF, AND WE HAVE OFFICERS PATROLLING THE PROPERTY AND THE CHIEF AS WELL AS
WE ALSO HAVE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT AT THE FRONT DOOR.
[00:30:01]
WE HAVE SECURITY INSIDE THAT WE HIRE.AND HOW LONG DOES SECURITY STAY ON THE PREMISES? UNTIL EVERYBODY'S GOT HIRED.
UM, SO WHO, WHO, UH, WHO'S IN CHARGE OF FILING COWBOY'S ANNUAL LICENSE RENEWAL APPLICATIONS? UM, WE, WE, WE HIRED A GUY THAT'S BEEN DOING IT FOR, FOR 15 YEARS.
AND IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU, YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO OPERATE LATE HOURS, UM, EVER SINCE THESE LICENSE HAVE BEEN FILED? YES, SIR.
UH, WHEN, WHEN DID YOU BECOME AWARE, WHEN DID COWBOYS RED RIVER BECOME AWARE? UM, THAT, UH, COWBOYS RED RIVER WAS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF SOME APARTMENTS? UH, WHEN I GOT THAT LETTER.
WERE YOU, UH, EVER TOLD PRIOR TO, WHEN YOU SAY THAT LETTER, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NOVEMBER 1ST, 2023 LETTER FROM, UH, THE CITY DENYING THE REQUEST FOR LATE HOURS PERMIT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND THEN THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF THE LETTERS OF OUR, OF OUR THREE DOCUMENTS, UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
THAT'S ONE OF THE, UH, THREE LETTERS.
IT'S THE THIRD LETTER, UH, IN OUR PACKAGE THAT WE SUBMITTED.
UM, AND HAD YOU HAD, PRIOR TO RECEIVING THAT LETTER, HAD ANYONE EVER REQUIRED COWBOYS RED RIVER TO, UH, PAY FOR A SURVEY TO CONFIRM THAT THERE WERE APARTMENTS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET? NO.
UM, SO TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE LATE HOURS PERMITS ALWAYS BEEN APPROVED, CORRECT? YES.
SO, YOU KNOW, BASED ON YOUR UNDERSTANDING, YOUR TESTIMONY AND YOUR 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, ALMOST 30 YEARS EXPERIENCE AT THIS LOCATION, WOULD, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE LOCATION OF THIS DANCE HALL WITH A LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL AND NEARBY PROPERTIES? NO, NOT AT ALL.
AND, AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THIS, THIS IS NOT STAYING, HAVING A LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC SAFETY OR PUBLIC WELFARE.
I THINK IT HELPS WITH THE SECURITY OF ARTS.
UM, THIS, THE, UH, THE LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT IMPACT OR DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUES OF NEARBY PROPERTIES OR THE QUALITY OF LIFE, WOULD IT? NO SHIELD.
CAN, CAN, CAN I HAVE ONE AND A HALF MORE MINUTES? I GOT TWO QUESTIONS LEFT.
HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO YOU NEED? TWO MINUTES.
UH, IS THERE, IS, UH, ANY BOARD MEMBERS OPPOSED TO AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES FOR THE APPELLANT? UH, ALL THOSE OPPOSED SAY NAY.
MR. SHIELDS WITH UNANIMOUS CONSENT, YOU MAY TAKE ANOTHER TWO MINUTES.
UM, MS. WADE, THE, UM, THE GRANTING OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT, UM, WILL NOT DOWNGRADE THE PRO QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREAS, WOULD IT? NO.
AND, AND THE GRANTING OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OF BOURBON BLIGHT, WOULD IT? NO.
UM, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WOULD THE GRANTING OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION? NO.
SO, AND COWBOYS, RED RIVER HAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE AND ANY OTHER RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS? DALLAS? YES, ABSOLUTELY.
UH, MS. WILKINS, DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS AT THIS TIME? MR. CHAIR? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.
UH, THEN, UH, IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO BEGIN YOUR PRESENTATION AND YOU HAVE, UH, 10 MINUTES.
WELL, BEFORE I CALL MY FIRST WITNESS, I JUST WANT TO OFFER A, A FRIENDLY CORRECTION TO SOME OF THE TESTIMONY WE JUST HEARD.
OUR, UH, TAB NUMBER SIX DOES NOT SHOW 21 INCIDENTS AT THE PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE ADDING UP ALL THE NUMBERS TOGETHER.
THERE WERE 13 CALLS FOR SERVICE.
OF THOSE 13 CALLS FOR SERVICE, SIX
[00:35:01]
RESULTED IN REPORTS BEING GENERATED.SO THERE WERE SIX REPORTS, NOT 21, AND THEN TWO OF THOSE TWO WERE BETWEEN THE HOURS OF TWO AND 4:00 AM.
NOW, REGARDING THE TESTIMONY OF WHETHER THAT WAS RELATED TO THE BUSINESS OR NOT, I'M NOT CONVERTING ANY OF THAT, BUT I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE 13 CALLS FOR SERVICE, NOT 21.
I WOULD LIKE TO CALL, UH, DETECTIVE LUCERO BROOKS.
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
COULD YOU SPELL IT, PLEASE? YES.
LAST NAME BROOKS, B-R-O-O-K-S.
AND HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? UH, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
UM, AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? SEVEN YEARS.
AND WHAT UNIT ARE YOU CURRENTLY WORKING IN? I'M CURRENTLY ASSIGNED TO THE LICENSING VICE UNIT.
AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THAT UNIT? UH, FOR ABOUT A YEAR.
AND WHAT ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE VICE UNIT? UM, I'M RESPONSIBLE OF PROCESSING AND REVIEWING, UH, THE LICENSING APPLICATIONS FOR THE BUSINESSES, UM, ENSURING THAT ALL THE DOCUMENTS ARE ATTACHED TO THE APPLICATION IN ORDER FOR THEM TO, TO BE APPROVED OR DENIED.
SO, UM, DID YOU REVIEW THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS APPLICATION FROM COWBOYS RED RIVER? YES, I DID.
SO TURNING TO TAB ONE IN THE CITY'S BINDER.
IS THIS, UH, CAN YOU BRIEFLY, BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE APPLICANT'S HISTORY? YES.
UM, WHEN I REVIEWED IT, UM, I FOUND THAT THEY APPLIED FOR THE DANCE HALL, LATE HOURS FOR BOTH BACK IN 20 20, 21, 22, AND YEAR OF 2023.
UM, A ZONING WAS COMPLETED IN 20TH OF SEPTEMBER OF 2021.
UM, A LAND SURVEY WAS COMPLETED OCTOBER OF 2021, AND THE DANCE HALL APPLICATIONS WERE APPROVED IN 20 20, 21, 22, AND 2023.
THE APPROVED LATE HOURS WERE APPROVED BACK IN 21 AND 22.
UH, THE RENEWAL APPLICATION WE RECEIVED LAST YEAR WAS OCTOBER OF 2023.
UH, THE DENIAL LETTER WAS SENT OUT NOVEMBER OF 2023.
UM, I GOT NOTIFICATION OF AN APPEAL REQUEST, UH, NOVEMBER OF 2023 AND THE PLA WAS SET FOR, FOR TODAY, AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE NOW.
UM, TURNING TO TAB TWO, IS THIS THE APPLICATION FOR THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT THAT YOU REVIEWED? YES, IT IS.
AND WHY WERE THEY DENIED A LATE HOURS PERMIT? UH, THEY WERE WHEN WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENCE APARTMENT CONFERENCE.
AND IS THAT, UH, DISCRETIONARY, DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY DISCRETION ON WHETHER TO ISSUE THAT DENIAL? NO, I DON'T.
DOES THIS TAB DOCUMENT CALLS FOR SERVICE AT COWBOYS RED RIVER? YES.
AND HOW MANY CALLS FOR SERVICE WERE THERE OVER THE PAST YEAR? THE TOTAL WERE 13.
I MAY HAVE STEPPED ON YOUR TESTIMONY A LITTLE BIT, BUT GO.
UM, SO, UH, IS 13 AN UNUSUAL NUMBER OF CALLS FOR SERVICE AT A BUSINESS LIKE THIS? NO, IT'S ACTUALLY LOW.
AND WERE THERE ANY INCIDENTS DOCUMENTED FOR THIS ADDRESS? UH, THE ADDRESS THAT THEY USED FOR REPORTS WERE SIX.
UM, BUT AFTER READING SOME OF THE NARRATIVES, THEY DIDN'T ALL OCCUR, OCCUR AT THE LOCATION.
IS THAT A HIGH NUMBER FOR, FOR A CLUB OF THIS SIZE? NO.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BUSINESS CREATES A PUBLIC SAFETY PROBLEM BY OPERATING DURING LATE HOURS? NO.
ASIDE FROM THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION OF BEING WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENCE, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER REASON TO DENY THE APPLICANT'S DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT AT THIS TIME? NO, THERE ISN'T.
UM, AND I NOTE THAT, UH, I ERRED AND I DID NOT GIVE THE BOARD MEMBERS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS OF, UH, MS. WARD.
SO WE WILL COME BACK TO MS. WARD.
MS. WADE, I APOLOGIZE MS. WADE.
UH, WE WILL COME BACK AND ALLOW THE BOARD TO ASK QUESTIONS OF MS. WADE AFTER THE BOARD MEMBERS, UH, ASK QUESTIONS OF THE DETECTIVE.
UM, SO WE WILL GO THROUGH THE LIST OF BOARD MEMBERS NOW, UH, FOR THREE MINUTES OF QUESTIONS TO THE DETECTIVE.
[00:40:01]
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.MS. WILLIS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO.
UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE? NO QUESTION.
UM, MR. JEFFERSON, NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
MR. JEFFS, UH, MR. HAYES, ONE QUICK QUESTION TO DETECTIVE BROOKS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE.
DETECTIVE, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY NUISANCE COMPLAINTS, UH, ORIGINATING FROM THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT'S JUST WITHIN A THOUSAND FOOT RADIUS? NO, WE ACTUALLY, UH, DIDN'T DO THAT RESEARCH, UH, FROM THAT PARTICULAR, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX.
SO I WOULDN'T BE AWARE UNLESS I, I I LOOK IT UP.
MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE? YES, SIR.
UH, MR. HAYES TOOK ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, BUT MY OTHER QUESTION IS, UH, DETECTIVE, HOW LONG WAS THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX BEEN THERE? THEY WERE BUILT, UM, AROUND THE TIME THAT THEY DID THE APPLICATION.
I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2021, I THINK IT BEFORE 2021.
I DON'T THINK THEY HAD BEEN THERE, UH, FAIRLY LONG.
SO THEREFORE, THEY HAD, HAD ALREADY HAD A LATE PERMIT FOR 2020, CORRECT? YES.
SO IT WAS ISSUED BEFORE THE COMPLEX WAS BUILT, CORRECT.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
UH, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
UH, MR. VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UM, I, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
DETECTIVE, UH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE THIS MORNING.
UM, ON YOUR TAB, ON THE CITY'S TAB ONE, UM, IT SAYS THEY APPLIED FOR A DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT IN 20 21, 22, AND 23.
UM, BUT THEY'VE BEEN OPERATING LATE HOURS SINCE 1996.
DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY NEVER HAD TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT PREVIOUSLY? A PERMIT WASN'T REQUIRED PREVIOUSLY? MM-HMM.
UM, WHAT HAPPENED WAS AN APPLICATION WAS MISSED BY A MONTH, SO WE HAD TO DO THE PREVIOUS DETECTIVE TO PROCESS THAT APPLICATION, DID A WHOLE NEW APPLICATION, UM, BECAUSE THAT MONTH WAS, WAS MISSED FROM RENEWING THE APPLICATION.
UM, AND SO WE HAVE THE, THE LAND SURVEY LETTER FROM THE CITY SURVEYOR THAT'S DATED OCTOBER, 2021.
UM, DO YOU KNOW WHY THE PERMIT WAS GRANTED IN 2022 WHEN THE CITY HAD THAT SURVEY THAT INDICATED, UH, THAT THERE WAS A RESIDENCE WITHIN 900 FEET? YOU MEANING WHY IT WAS APPROVED? THE, THE LATE HOURS? YES, MA'AM.
I, I, I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL YOU, UM, BECAUSE A DIFFERENT DETECTIVE PROCESSED THAT APPLICATION.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S, UM, BECAUSE THEY HAD HAD IN LATE HOURS BEFORE, UM, THAT THEY GRANTED IT.
I, I HONESTLY WOULDN'T KNOW THAT DETECTIVE IS NO LONGER HERE.
UM, AND LOOKING AT THE OVERHEAD VIEW, AND I'M TRYING TO FIND THE TAB, I THINK IT'S TAB FOUR, TAB THREE, THERE'S A BOAT, THERE'S AN OVERHEAD AERIAL VIEW, UH, THAT SHOWS THE PROPERTY LINES AND THE, THE RADIUS.
UH, WE HAVE THE APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT'S JUST TO THE SOUTH OF THE PROPERTY.
THERE'S ANOTHER, UH, PROPERTY THAT IS JUST TO THE WEST.
UM, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT BE APARTMENTS OR A HOTEL.
THAT'S AN EXTENDED SAY, HOTEL.
AND THAT DOES NOT COUNT AS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY UNDER THE CITY CODE? NO, NO.
UM, RESIDENCE IS SINGLE FAMILY MULTIFAMILY,
[00:45:02]
DUPLEX.UH, I'LL JUST QUICKLY GO THROUGH THE BOARD MEMBERS AGAIN FOR A SECOND ROUND IN CASE ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS.
KURT, I I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF DETECTIVE BROOKS.
I JUST LET YOU KNOW FOR THE RECORD, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY TIME LAPSE.
OH, OH, I HAD TO HAVE TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS TOO.
UM, MS. WILLIS, VICE CHAIR TORRES.
MS.
JEFFS, MR. HAYES? NO QUESTIONS.
NO QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS? UM, ALRIGHT, UH, BECAUSE WE SKIPPED IT, UH, PREVIOUSLY UNINTENTIONAL.
UM, AND I SEE THAT MS. WADE IS BACK ON AND WE'VE GOT HER VIDEO NOW.
WE'LL GO THROUGH IN CASE ANY BOARD MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR, UM, MS. WADE.
UM, MS. ARIANO, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. WADE? NO QUESTIONS FOR MS. WADE.
MR. JEFFERSON? NO, NO QUESTIONS.
UH, AND, UH, MR. WILKINS, IS THAT ALL YOU HAVE FOR YOUR PRESENTATION? ALRIGHT, THEN THE BOARD WILL NOW HEAR BRIEF UNDER FIVE MINUTES.
UH, MR. SHIELDS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BEGIN? UH, THANK YOU.
UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS MORNING.
UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, UH, I THINK YOU'VE, YOU'VE HEARD THE EVIDENCE SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR THAT, UH, UH, THE TESTIMONY SHOWS THAT WE'VE MET THE REQUIREMENTS, UH, FOR AN EXEMPTION FROM THE LATE HOURS PERMIT.
I, I WON'T BELABOR IT AND WALK THROUGH THE TESTIMONY ANY FURTHER.
THERE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ANY QUESTIONS.
SO, UM, I, I, AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND WE WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU FIND THAT THIS EXEMPTION FOR LATE HOURS PERMIT BE GRANTED.
MR. WILKINS, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES FOR CLOSING STATEMENT.
WELL, TO SUMMARIZE THE, THE CITY'S TESTIMONY, UM, OF FOUR ELEMENTS THAT NEED TO, TO BE SHOWN TO GRANT AN EXCEPTION TO THE LATE HOURS LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION, UM, THE CITY HAS PROVIDED TESTIMONY THAT THE LATE HOURS PERMIT WILL NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON, UH, NEARBY PROPERTY BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC SAFETY OR WELFARE.
UH, APPELLANT HAS PROVIDED EVIDENCE, UH, THAT IT WON'T DOWNGRADE PROPERTY VALUE, UH, OR ENCOURAGED DEVELOPMENT OF URBAN BLIGHT.
UH, CITY DOES NOT CONTROVERT THAT.
NUMBER THREE, UH, THE, THEY PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT IT WON'T BE CONTRARY TO A PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OR INTERFERE WITH EFFORTS OF URBAN RENEWAL.
CITY IS NOT CO CONVERTING THAT, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A LONG HISTORY OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE REST OF THE DANCE HALL CHAPTER, WHICH IS PRONG NUMBER FOUR, CITY RESTS.
THANK YOU, UH, MR. WILKINS FOR CONCISELY AND ELOQUENTLY, UH, STATING THOSE POINTS.
UM, WE WILL NOW, UH, MOVE ON TO BOARD DISCUSSION AND MOTION.
IS THERE A MOTION FROM THE BOARD REGARDING THE DENIAL OF A DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT FOR COWBOYS? RED RIVER? YOU OVERTURNED THE DENIAL, UH, MOTION BY MR. HAYES TO REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
I, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T TATTOO WITH THE SECOND WAS THAT MR. THANK YOU FOR CORRECTING MY WORDING AND I'M FINE WITH YOUR CORRECTION.
SECOND ON MOTION, MR. JEFFERSON?
[00:50:01]
YES.UH, AND, UH, NOW MR. HAYES, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR MOTION? I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARY.
UH, MR. JEFFERSON, YOU'RE THE SECOND.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? NO, THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, UH, IN FAVOR OR ON THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, UH, SINCE THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, WE WILL PROCEED WITH THE VOTE.
UH, THE MOTION BY MR. HAYES, SECONDED BY MR. JEFFERSON IS TO REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY.
MOTION PASSES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE.
UM, WE, UH, NOW, UH, WE'VE NOW GOT A SECOND HEARING, UH, WHICH IS THANK YOU BEHALF OF HICKORY TRAIL DE HOLDINGS, LLC, UH, THAT IS APPEALING THE FINAL DETERMINATION AS A INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY UNDER SECTION 27 DASH 51 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.
UM, WE WILL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS PRIOR TO THAT HEARING.
UH, AND WHEN WE RETURN VICE CHAIR TOEZ WILL, UH, CHAIR THE MEETING.
[00:57:59]
AUDIO TEST, TESTING, TESTING.NO, IT'S VERY, VERY LOW TESTING.
BUT IT'S STILL KIND OF MUFFLED A LITTLE BIT.
ARE YOU
AND I APOLOGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING EVERYBODY.
UM, I, WE DO HAVE ONE WITNESS, I BELIEVE WHO HAS NOT RECEIVED THE WEBEX LINK.
UM, I'M HAPPY TO RECIRCULATE AN EMAIL ADDRESS FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL IF THAT'S HELPFUL.
AND, AND WHO IS THAT INDIVIDUAL? MS. DEAN IKA.
DEAN, CAN YOU, MR. SINGAPORE, CAN YOU TELL ME THAT NAME AGAIN THAT YOU SAID DEAN? DEAN IS THE LAST NAME.
UM, SPELL FIRST NAME IS S-H-A-N-E-Q-U-I-A.
WE DO HAVE HER EMAIL ADDRESS, SO WE WILL RESEND IT TO HER.
THAT INVITATION HAS BEEN SENT.
AND DONNA, CAN YOU GIVE ME ANOTHER AUDIO CHECK THERE IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM?
[01:00:04]
YES, JESSIE.MS. SHIN, CAN YOU, UM, GIVE ME A QUICK TEST? YEAH, THAT'S, SEE THAT'S RIO VIVO.
OKAY, DONNA, LET'S GET ANOTHER TEST.
OR, OR MISS SHIN OR MISS FOREZ TEST ONE MORE TIME.
SO WE WERE JUST WAITING ON MR.
I AM CALLING MS. DEAN AS AN ASIDE TO FOLLOW UP ON THE EMAIL LINK SENT AND WE'LL BE BACK.
IS THERE A NUMBER, UM, OR MEETING IDENTIFICATION OF SOME KIND FROM MS. DEAN TO INPUT TO JOIN THE WEBEX? NO, IT WOULD, SHE WOULD JUST SIMPLY NEED TO ACCESS THE INVITATION THAT WAS SENT HER EMAIL AND SELECT THE BUTTON THAT'S IN THE INVITATION THAT SAYS JOIN WEBINAR.
[01:05:55]
AND THEN MR. SPORA, ARE WE EXPECTING A LAURA VERNIA? YES, MA'AM.BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THAT SHE'S ON EITHER.
UM, SHE MAY BE ACTUALLY VIEWING, I APOLOGIZE FROM, FROM THE PUBLIC LINK, BUT, UM, THAT'S WHO IS ASSOCIATED WITH ME.
UM, MS. DEAN IS TRYING TO ACCESS THIS VIA PHONE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MATTERS WITH RESPECT TO THE WEBEX LINK THAT WAS SENT OUT.
NO, IT WOULD BE THE SAME PROCESS.
SHE WOULD JUST SELECT THE, JOIN THE GREEN JOIN BUTTON THAT'S IN THE INVITATION, UM, THAT WAS SENT TO HER.
AND THEN, UM, MR. HERNANDEZ, ARE WE EXPECTING JOHN ROBERTS? UM, NO, UH, NO, YOUR HONOR.
OR I'M SORRY,
TRACY REEVES IS APPEARING IN HIS DEBT 'CAUSE UH, DUE TO UNFORESEEN CIRCUMSTANCES ON OUR END, SO.
THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
SO, BUT YES, TRACY REEVES WILL BE, YEAH, I AM LOOKING AT MS. DEAN'S, UM, SHE'S SHARING YOUR SCREEN WITH ME TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO LOG IN AND THE EMAIL ADDRESS THAT'S LISTED AS THE ONE THAT WE PROVIDED AND SHE GOT THE INVITATION, WHICH SHE HITS NEXT,
[01:10:01]
IT SAYS WE CAN'T FIND YOUR ACCOUNT ON THE HOST SITE, TRY A DIFFERENT EMAIL ADDRESS OR JOIN AS AN ATTENDEE.UM, CAN YOU, BECAUSE IT, THE EMAIL ADDRESS THAT SHE PROVIDED TO US OR THAT YOU ALL PROVIDED TO US WITH, SO, AND IT'S A YAHOO EMAIL ADDRESS.
SO UNLESS I'M, I'M SORRY, YOU BROKE UP THERE.
WHAT WAS THAT? BUT YOU'RE INDICATING SHE DID RECEIVE THE INVITATION, CORRECT? YES.
THEN SHE MAY NEED TO, WHEN SHE'S PLUGGING IN HER EMAIL ADDRESS, IF SHE'S DOING THAT, UM, SHE'LL NEED TO MAKE SURE SHE'S PLUGGING IT IN CORRECTLY BECAUSE IF, IF IT IS PROMPTING HER THAT THE EMAIL ADDRESS IS INCORRECT, IT'S BECAUSE OF HOW SHE'S TYPING IT IN.
DO YOU THINK YOU COULD RE TRY TO RETYPE IN YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND THEN HIT NEXT? YEAH, I TRIED THAT, BUT I CAN DO IT AGAIN.
YEAH, YOU MEAN THE SAME THING? YEAH, IT'S SAYING, IT'S SAYING THE SAME THING FOR HER AND I'M WATCHING HER TYPE IT IN ON HER PHONE AND IT'S MATCHING UP TO THE EMAIL ADDRESS WHERE SHE RECEIVED THE INVITATION.
THE, THE ONLY WAY TO ACCESS THE MEETING IS THROUGH THE LINK OR THROUGH THE AGENDA.
SHE CAN TRY THE LINK THAT'S ON THE AGENDA, UM, AND THEN SHE WOULD POPULATE AS AN ATTENDEE AND THEN I CAN MOVE HER OVER.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PUBLIC POSTING AGENDA.
YOU CAN ACCESS THE LINK THERE AND THEN FOLLOW THE PROMPT AND THEN I CAN SEE IF SHE GETS IN AS AN ATTENDEE.
UM, AND THEN I CAN MOVE HER OVER.
IT'S ASKING FOR A PANEL AS A PASSWORD.
YEAH, WE CAN GIVE THAT FOR TRY CAPITAL P AS IN PAUL, L AS IN LAURA, A AS IN APPLE, AND THEN B AS IN BOB, ALL CAP PLA AND THEN 2024.
THAT SHOULD ALSO BE IN THE INVITATION.
PLA, UH, IT SHOULD BE IN THE INVITATION.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I HAVE, IT'S THE WEBEX INVITATION THAT SHE COULD HAVE RECEIVED.
AND DID YOU SAY IT'S P-L-A-B-O-B OR CAPS? PLA BLAB PLAB ALL CAPS UNDERSCORE 2024.
[01:15:20]
OKAY.SO SHE IS ON, CAN CAN WE GET HER TO TURN ON HER MICROPHONE AND HER CAMERA AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE SHE HAS ACCESS TO IT, SO SHE MAY NEED TO USE THE LITTLE ARROWS THAT ARE ON THE MICROPHONE BUTTON AND ON THE CAMERA BUTTON.
AND UM, IT'S GONNA GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL SETTINGS AND YOU CAN JUST GO TO AUDIO SETTINGS AND THEN MANIPULATE HER SPEAKER AND HER MICROPHONE.
YOU HAVE A MICROPHONE, SO IF SHE CAN UNMUTE HERSELF AND THEN WE'LL ALSO NEED HER TO DO HER CAMERA BUTTON.
WE CAN, UM, CAN YOU TURN ON YOUR CAMERA MS. DEAN CAMERA GOT MY VIDEO AND THERE YOU ARE.
SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.
I HOPE EVERYBODY CAN HEAR ME, BUT IF NOT, PLEASE LET US KNOW.
UM, WE ARE NOW READY TO GO ON RECORD FOR THE SECOND APPEAL HEARING OF THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.
IT IS NOW 10 13 ON THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST, 2024.
AT THIS TIME I WILL DO A ROLL CALL IF PRESENT.
BEN NIK PRESENT FLORE AND PRESENT KARINA ANO.
VERA, ABSENT FROM THIS HEARING ARE MS. CARMEN AALA AND RICHARD
WE DO HAVE A QUORUM AT THIS POINT AND WE WILL PROCEED WITH THE HEARING POINT OF ORDER.
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT SEES MS. ARIANO? UH, SHE'S ON, UH, YEAH, SHE'S ON SCREEN.
I THOUGHT YOU SAID SHE WAS ABSENT FROM THE HEARING, MA'AM.
UH, ABSENT FROM THIS HEARING ARE CARMEN AYALA AND RICHARD ILLA.
[01:20:12]
NO.ALSO PRESENT TODAY, UH, THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE OR REPRESENTATIVE.
WHO DO WE HAVE FOR THE APPELLANT? MR. SINGAPORE.
HI, KARTHIK SINGAPORE ON BEHALF OF THE APPELLANT IN THIS APPEAL.
UH, YOUR WITNESS? YES, WE, WE HAVE, UM, LESLIE BANG SIMON AND MS. SHA INE AS WELL.
AND THE CITY ATTORNEY THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE A LITTLE AUDIO BREAKUP.
UM, WHO DO WE HAVE FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE PRESENT TODAY? UH, I BELIEVE YOU'RE ASKING WHO'S PRESENT FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, UH, ALEX HERNANDEZ, UH, AND MY CO-COUNSEL.
CAN YOU HEAR ME? WE CAN HEAR YOU.
I DON'T KNOW IF MR. SINGAPORE IS HAVING THE SAME ISSUE THAT WE ARE WITH, UH, THE MUFFLING.
I'M GONNA TRY TO SPEAK LOUDER ON MY END.
OKAY, MR. EZ, FOR THE CITY WITNESSES, UH, WITNESSES FOR THE CITY WOULD BE DETECTIVE SONYA HAYNES.
THE, THE NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS IS TO HEAR THE APPEAL REQUEST OF HICKORY TRAIL DE HOLDINGS, LLC APPEALING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY UNDER SECTION 27 DASH 51 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.
THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THIS HEARING IS ON THE APPELLANT AT THIS TIME.
ANY WITNESSES WHO WISH TO TESTIFY IN THIS HEARING, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
SO YOU MAY BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.
I DO BELIEVE WE'VE NOT SWORN IN, UM, ALL THE WITNESSES.
SO MS. DETECTIVE, DETECTIVE
MS.
MS. AND MS. I DO THANK SUMMON.
JUST VERY QUICKLY, IS THE AUDIO BETTER? THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF ECHO, BUT YEAH, IT SOUNDS BETTER.
[01:25:10]
HICKORY TRAILS E HOLDINGS.I'M SORRY THAT YES, NO WORRIES.
FOR THE RECORD, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU ANTICIPATE NEEDING TO PRESENT THE CASE FOR HICKORY TRAILS? DID E HOLDING LLCI WOULD SAY 45 MINUTES WITH THE HOPES THAT I GIVE SOME TIME BACK.
FOR THE RECORD, HOW MUCH TIME DOES THE CITY NEED TO PRESENT ITS CASE? I BELIEVE THAT 30 MINUTES SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT, NOT INCLUDING THE OPENING AND CLOSING.
SO WOULD BOTH OF YOU BE OKAY WITH 30 MINUTES EACH? IS THAT INCLUSIVE OF OPENING AND CLOSING? THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE OPENING AND CLOSING, BUT IT DOES INCLUDE YOU QUESTIONING, UM, THE CITY'S WITNESSES.
MADAM CHAIR, MAY I MAKE A TECHNICAL SUGGESTION? YES.
UM, WOULD THE PEOPLE IN THE ACTUAL ROOM MUTE THEIR MICS WHEN ANYBODY ELSE IS TALKING BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING LOTS OF FEEDBACK.
UM, AT THIS MOMENT, BOARD HAS ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE THE DOCUMENTS PRESENTED BY THE APPELLANT HICKORY TRAILS DE HOLDINGS AND HAS NUMBERED THEM.
THEY ARE EXHIBITS ONE AND TWO.
THE BOARD HAS ALSO ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE THE DOCUMENTS PRESENTED BY THE CITY AND HAS NUMBERED THEM.
THEY ARE EXHIBIT ONE, WE'LL MOVE NOW WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.
WOULD THE CITY ATTORNEY PLEASE READ THE RELEVANT ORDINANCE? PRESUME THE HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY IF THE PROPERTY IS DECIDED OF FIVE OR MORE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES WITHIN 365 DAYS, RESULTING IN EITHER A REPORT OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY DOCUMENTING AN INVESTIGATION OF AN AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY OR LAW OR ENFORCEMENT ACTION AGAINST ANY PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY AND AT WHICH PERSONS HAVE HISTORICALLY COMMITTED AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ACCORDING TO RECENT CRIME DATA.
NOW WE'LL MOVE TO OPENING STATEMENTS.
MR. SINGAPORE, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BEGIN WITH A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENT? IF SO, YOU HAVE 10 MINUTES.
UM, YES, I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED OR I SHOULD HAVE ASKED MAY I PROCEED? YES, GO AHEAD.
AND GOOD MORNING TO THE BOARD.
UM, AND MY, UM, YOU KNOW, COLLEAGUES, MR. HERNANDEZ, MS. REEMS, AND I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S PATIENCE WHILE WE KIND OF WORK THROUGH SOME OF THESE TECHNICAL ISSUES THIS MORNING.
UM, WE'RE HERE ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER OF THE HICKORY TRAILS, UH, APARTMENTS.
THE APARTMENTS ARE LOCATED ABOUT 20 MINUTES SOUTH OF DOWNTOWN DALLAS.
UM, AND IT'S A PRETTY LARGE PROPERTY.
IT'S 25 ACRES, WHICH, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD HAS NOW ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE THE MATERIALS WE'VE SUBMITTED, WHICH REFLECT THAT IT IS ABOUT 250 UNITS OVER 30 BUILDINGS, UM, AND IS BORDERED BY LARGELY UNINHABITED AND UNDEVELOPED FIELDS.
THE PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY IN FEBRUARY OF 2022.
AND IT WAS PREVIOUSLY, IT WAS ORIGINALLY CONSTRUCTED IN 2000.
NOW I KNOW BOTH, UM, FROM ANY PROPERTY OWNER'S PERSPECTIVE AND FROM MANY OF THE APPEALS, THIS BOARD HAS HEARD THERE'S FRUSTRATIONS AND, AND, UM, EVIDENCE HEARD AND PROVIDED WITH RESPECT TO OTHER ANCILLARY ISSUES THAT MAY CAUSE THE CRIMES TO OCCUR.
RESPONSES OF DPD AND 9 1 1, SO ON AND SO FORTH POST,
[01:30:01]
UH, YOU KNOW, AAT MEASURES TAKEN DURING THE 365 DAY PERIOD LOOK PROVIDED IN THE NOTICE.UM, ALL THAT SAID, I AM SURE I ECHO THE SENTIMENTS OF OUR CLIENTS IN THAT SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE ISSUES THEY FEEL ARE PERTINENT.
BUT WE WILL RESPECT THE BOARD'S TIME AND THE STANDARD OF REVIEW BEFORE THE BOARD, WHICH WILL LOOK AT A 365 DAY PERIOD BETWEEN SEPTEMBER OF 2022 AND AUGUST OF 2023.
AND IN PARTICULAR THE CRIMES LISTED IN THE CITY'S HCP NOTICE THAT WAS TENDERED TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS.
AND THE FINAL DESIGNATION FROM SEPTEMBER, I BELIEVE, OF THIS YEAR.
NOW I RECOGNIZE THIS WAS INTRODUCED THAT THE BURDEN OF PROOF HERE, IT RESTS ON THE APPELLATE IN THIS APPEAL TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION THAT THE HCP DESIGNATION WAS FINAL.
NOW, WHILE WE RECOGNIZE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION, WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD IN ITS CAPACITY AS THE REVIEWING BOARD OF THIS DECISION TO ENSURE THAT THE PRESUMPTION ITSELF HAS BEEN MET.
THAT BEING THE CITY'S BURDEN TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THIS IS A PROPERTY WHERE FIVE AAT CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES OCCURRED WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD AND WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPERTY OWNER AND THIS PROPERTY IS A SITE OF A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.
AND THESE OWNERS ARE THE TYPE OF OWNERS AND OPERATORS WHO FOSTER THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY ON THEIR PROPERTY.
WE RECOGNIZE FULLY THAT ANY CRIME THOSE LISTED AND THOSE NOT LISTED IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, NOT OKAY WITH SOCIETY, NOT OKAY WITH PROPERTY OWNERS AND NOT OKAY WITH TENANTS.
HOWEVER, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS HEARING'S ABOUT.
IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING DISMISSIVE TO OF ANY CRIMES.
IT'S TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THESE ARE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT FOSTERED THIS DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THEIR PROPERTY.
AND THE CODE ITSELF RECOGNIZES THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES AND OCCURRENCES IN WHICH THE PROPERTY OWNER IS NOT HELD SUBJECT TO THIS ORDINANCE AS AN DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY FOR CRIMES THAT OCCUR OUTSIDE OF THE PURVIEW OR CONTROL EXPRESSLY PROVIDED IN THE CODE IS CRIMES OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, WHICH DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS THE HCP DESIGNATION AS WELL.
THE REFERENCE TO THE, UH, CHAPTER 1 25 PUBLIC NUISANCE STATE STATUTE IS THE EXCLUSIVE BODY AND LIST OF AAT CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES, WHICH CAN COUNT TOWARDS THIS FIVE CRIME DESIGNATION WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD.
FROM THE WITNESSES YOU WILL HEAR FROM, UH, MS. DEAN WHO IS A LEASING AGENT AT THE PROPERTY AS WELL AS MS. BAIN SIMONIC, WHO IS, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OWNERSHIP GROUP FOR THIS PROPERTY.
WE'VE PROVIDED IN OUR WRITTEN STATEMENT, WHICH HAS NOW BEEN ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE AN OUTLINE OF CERTAIN INCIDENTS IDENTIFIED BY INCIDENT REPORTS, WHICH WE BELIEVE DEMONSTRATE THAT THE REQUISITE FIVE CRIMES HAVE NOT BEEN MET.
AND I WILL JUST GO AHEAD AND GROUP THE REASONS PROVIDED, UH, WHICH WILL BE ELABORATED OF COURSE DURING THE COURSE OF THE TESTIMONY, BUT THAT LARGELY BEING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OCCURRENCES AS WELL AS SHOTS FIRED OR GUNFIRE EMANATING FROM LOCATIONS OFF THE PROPERTY AND ENTERING ONTO THE PROPERTY WHERE THE TENANTS CURRENTLY RESIDE.
THE CODE UNDER CHAPTER 27 48 HAS TWO DISTINCT WAYS TO ESTABLISH BEATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT CAN COUNT TOWARDS THIS DESIGNATION.
THE FIRST OF COURSE BEING IF THERE'S A REPORT OF AN INVESTIGATION OF AN DEBATABLE ACTIVITY UPBRINGING ON THE PROPERTY.
SECOND, WHICH IS ENFORCEMENT ACTION IF THE VICTIM LIVES ON THE PROPERTY.
TAKING THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS ALONG WITH THE EXPRESSLY DEFINED DEBATABLE CRIMES THAT CAN COUNT TOWARDS DESIGNATION AND LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANCE OF THESE INCIDENT REPORTS AND NOT SIMPLY WHAT THE CODE THAT WAS ENTERED BY THE REPORTING OFFICER WAS.
WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE FIVE CRIMES HAVE BEEN MET OR THE REQUISITE FIVE CRIMES WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD HAVE BEEN MET.
AND WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO LOOK PAST THE TITLE OF SOME OF THESE INCIDENT INCIDENT REPORTS OR GENERAL CHARACTERIZATION OF THESE GENERAL OF THESE INCIDENT REPORTS AND THE SUBSTANCE OF THE REPORTS THEMSELVES AS TO WHAT THE COMPLAINANT REPORTED TO THE REPORTING OFFICER AND WHAT THE REPORTING OFFICER DOCUMENTED BY WAY OF WHO THE SUSPECTS ARE, THEIR PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIPS, THE LOCATION OF THE ASSAILANT OR PERSON WHO FIRED THE GUNSHOTS, WHICH ARE A LOT OF THE, UH, DEBATABLE CRIMES THAT ARE LISTED AND MAKE THAT DETERMINATION AND TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE PROPER BOUNDARIES AND PROTECTIONS ON THIS DESIGNATION FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE CITY.
[01:35:01]
AND THAT'S EXACTLY HOW THE CODE IS WRITTEN.AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE, TO THE BOARD'S, UH, DECISION.
AND WE APPRECIATE THE BOARD'S TIME, UH, WITH US THIS MORNING.
'CAUSE THE CITY HAVE A BRIEF STATEMENT.
AND WE HAVE A POWERPOINT TO GO ALONG WITH OUR OPENING STATEMENT AS WELL.
SO MAY THE CITY GO AHEAD AND BEGIN.
SO EVERYONE AGREES THAT REDUCING CRIME IMPROVES OUR LIVES BY MAKING OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER AND BETTER PLACES TO LIVE.
AND THE STATE OF TEXAS ALSO AGREED, IN FACT, TEXAS DETERMINED THAT CRIME IS TOO BIG OF AN ISSUE TO SIMPLY BE ADDRESSED SOLELY BY POLICING AGENCIES.
THUS CHAPTER 1 25 WAS ENACTED TO ENSURE THAT PROPERTY OWNERS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO DECREASE THEIR CRIME TO DECREASE CRIME ON THEIR PROPERTY.
THE CITY OF DALLAS HAS A SIMILAR PROVISION, BUT IT'S ONE THAT REQUIRES A PLACARD AND A FEE WITH THE HOPE OF ENCOURAGING PROPERTY OWNERS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND TO TAKE ACTION AND TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO DECREASE CRIME IF IT EVEN GETS TO THAT LEVEL.
AND THEY DO SUCH IN THIS ORDINANCE TO IMPROVE AND PROTECT NOT ONLY THE, THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS OR THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS, BUT ALSO, UM, TO RECOVER RESOURCES THAT DPD HAS EXPENDED IN POLICING PROBLEMATIC AREAS.
YOU'VE HEARD, AND WE, WE'LL PROBABLY CONTINUE TO HEAR, CONTINUE TO HEAR ARGUMENTS FROM THE APPELLANT THAT SOME OF THESE CRIMES SHOULDN'T BE COUNTED.
AND THEY'LL DISCUSS WHAT IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING.
AND YOU MAY HEAR ARGUMENTS THAT THE OWNERS DID THEIR PART AND TOOK REASONABLE MEASURES AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN DELAYS.
THE CITY NEEDS TO DO ITS PART AND WE HAVE DPD HAS DONE ITS PART.
WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE THE POINT OF SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023 WHEN DPD HAD TO INTERVENE BY TELLING THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT CRIME WAS A PROBLEM ON THEIR PROPERTY THROUGH A WRITTEN LETTER THAT THEY CALLED THE HCP OR THE INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY PRELIMINARY DESIGNATION.
AND REMEMBER, DPD HAS OUT BEEN OUT THERE BEFORE TO TALK WITH MANAGEMENT PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023.
SO THIS ISN'T A GOTCHA SCENARIO.
YOU'LL HEAR EVIDENCE FROM DETECTIVE HAYNES THAT FROM AUGUST 29TH, 2022 UNTIL AUGUST 29TH, 2023, THERE WERE 13 AAT OFFENSES THAT OCCURRED AT THE PROPERTY, INCLUDING A SEXUAL ASSAULT OR AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS WITH A DEADLY WEAPON, TWO ROBBERIES AND NUMEROUS DEADLY CONDUCT INCIDENTS OF DISCHARGING FIREARMS. THE CITY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BEG OR MINE A PROPERTY TO PROTECT THEIR OWN BUSINESS.
IF YOU KNOW THERE'S A PROBLEM AND THE PROBLEM IS INCREASING OR CONTINUES TO REMAIN A PROBLEM, THEN IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE ACTION.
BUT WHAT YOU WON'T HEAR IS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER TACKLED THIS CRIME ISSUE WITHOUT THE PROMPTING FROM THE CITY AND TO WITH DPD.
YOU WON'T HEAR THAT THEY WERE PROACTIVE WITHOUT THAT PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023 THAT THEY WERE TACKLING THESE, UM, THESE ISSUES AFTER THE CITY AND DPD INTERVENED ON SEPTEMBER 13TH, THE INITIAL HCP LETTER WAS ISSUED.
AND THEY TOOK SOME, SOME ACTIONS, BUT REMEMBER THAT'S TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES AND, AND LIMITS.
THIS BOARD'S REVIEW TO UP TO THE POINT OF SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023 WHEN THAT LETTER WAS ISSUED, WHAT HAD THE PROPERTY OWNERS DID DONE UP TO THAT POINT? EVIDENCE OF CRIME PREVENTION MEASURES IMPLEMENTED AFTER THE OWNER RECEIVED THE LETTER SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING WHETHER THE OWNER PRESENTED SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE.
AND WHEN THERE WAS THE COURT MEETING IN OCTOBER, 2023, UM, THEY SUBSEQUENTLY, DUE TO TECHNICAL ISSUES AT, UH, DPDS HEADQUARTERS, THEY, YOU KNOW, UH, MAILED THE PIECES OF EV EVIDENCE THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT OR EMAILED MY APOLOGIES.
AND IT WAS UNFORTUNATELY INSUFFICIENT TO PROVE THAT UP TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023, THEY HAD ADDRESSED THE ISSUES ON
[01:40:01]
THE PROPERTY THAT CONTRIBUTED TO CRIMINAL HABITUAL, UH, HABITUAL CRIME.YOU'LL ALSO HEAR FROM DETECTIVE HAYNES THAT THERE HAVE SUBSEQUENTLY SINCE THE 365 DAY PERIOD THAT THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE ADDITIONAL AAT OFFENSES ON THE PROPERTY.
NOW, THEY HAD TAKEN SOME STEPS, BUT I WOULD URGE THIS BOARD TO REMEMBER IT'S SIMPLY TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.
REMEMBER THE ORDINANCE THAT SAYS THAT YOU MUST LOOK UP TO THE POINT OF SEPTEMBER IN THIS CASE, SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023, ONCE THAT LETTER ISSUED, ONCE THAT LETTER IS SENT, ONLY THE OWNERS CAN REBUT THAT PRESUMPTION AND THEY DID NOT DO SO ON THE OCTOBER 10TH, UH, 2023 ACCORD MEETING.
AND THIS IS NOT PUNITIVE BECAUSE REMEMBER, DPD CAN EVALUATE WHEN THE PROPERTY OWNER TOOK REASONABLE STEPS TO ABATE THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND THEY CAN GET CREDIT FOR WHAT THEY'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING ON A FUTURE EVALUATION FOR THE HCP DESIGNATION IN 2024.
SO GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, DID THIS PROPERTY DO ENOUGH UP TO THE POINT OF SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023? REMEMBER, THIS IS IN EVERY PROPERTY OWNER.
THIS IS THIS PROPERTY OWNER THERE FOR THIS PROPERTY.
THERE ARE MANY OTHER PROPERTIES THROUGH THE CITY THAT THIS BOARD NEVER HAS TO HEAR FROM ON AN HCP APPEAL.
SO THE CITY ASK YOU TO REMAIN FOCUSED ON THE KEY ISSUES AND UPHOLD THE HCP DESIGNATION.
AND THANK YOU MR. SPO VOTE FOR STATE THAT ALLOTTED.
AND EVERYONE HEAR ME THERE? THERE IS A, A LARGE ECHO.
CANNOT DEFINITELY LET US, WE, WE, BECAUSE WE ARE NOW GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PRESENTATIONS, WE WILL START OUR, WITH THE APPELL FOUR.
AND I DO WANNA REMIND YOU, YOU HAVE 30 MINUTES AND THAT THAT'S IT WITH THE TIME.
UM, YOU'LL BE USING YOU TO QUESTION THE CITY ATTORNEY WITNESS, SO PLEASE PROCEED.
AND PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THERE'S AN ECHO THAT REVERBERATES ON YOUR END WHEN, WHEN I'M DISCUSSING WITH ANY OF MY WITNESSES, AND WE'LL TRY TO FIX IT.
UM, WOULD LIKE TO CALL MS. DEAN FIRST, PLEASE? YES, MS. DEAN, WOULD YOU MIND INTRODUCING YOURSELF, UM, GIVING YOUR FULL NAME TO THE, TO THE BOARD THIS MORNING? NIC WAINE.
UH, MS. DEAN, WHERE DO YOU CURRENTLY WORK? AT? GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL.
AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED AT GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL? SINCE APRIL 22ND, 2022.
AND FROM THAT POINT FORWARD OF APRIL 22 TO TODAY, WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR TITLE OR YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION AT THE PROPERTY? LEASING AGENT.
AND DID YOU MAINTAIN THAT POSITION DURING THE ENTIRE TIME PERIOD FROM THE BEGINNING OF YOU WORKING THERE? YES.
NOW, MS. DEAN, WHERE DO YOU LIVE? I LIVE IN GREENSVILLE CREEK THREE TRAIL AS WELL.
SO THE SAME PROPERTY THAT'S SUBJECT OF THIS HCP APPEAL? YES.
NOW, DURING YOUR TIME AS A LEASING AGENT AT THE PROPERTY, UM, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, WERE THERE TENANT SCREENING PROCESSES IN PLACE THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF? YES.
AND YOU MAY NOT HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, OR THIS MAY NOT BE PART OF YOUR JOB DUTIES, BUT DID YOU, ARE YOU AWARE OF EFFORTS BY PROPERTY OWNERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT TO TRY TO EVICT TENANTS IN VIOLATION OF THEIR LEASES? YES.
NOW, MS. DEAN, I WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROPERTY AND ITS SURROUNDINGS, WHICH I ASSUME YOU'RE QUITE FAMILIAR WITH, GIVEN, UM, YOU BOTH LIVED THERE AND WORKED THERE.
IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT? YES, IT IS.
MS. DEAN, IF YOU COULD EX KIND OF JUST DESCRIBE TO THE BOARD FOR US, AND THE BOARD'S BEEN GIVEN AN AERIAL SHOT OF THE PROPERTY LOCATION, UM, IN MATERIALS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED, BUT WOULD YOU MIND DESCRIBING TO THE BOARD, JUST FROM THE STANDPOINT OF OPEN FIELDS, WHAT SURROUNDS THE APARTMENT COMPLEX? A LOT OF OPEN FIELD.
UM, WE HAVE ON THE NORTH SIDE WE HAVE, UH, OPEN FIELD, AND THEN WE HAVE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE, WE HAVE A OPEN
[01:45:01]
FIELD BETWEEN TWO APARTMENT COMPLEX, WHICH IS PRIVATE AND GREENSVILLE PICKERY TRAIL.AND I'M SORRY, THERE MAY BE SOME AUDIO ON MY END, BUT DID YOU SAY THERE'S AN OPEN FIELD THAT SEPARATES PROVINCE AND THE GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND, UM, A COMMERCIAL STANDPOINT THAT MEANING STORES OR BUSINESSES, WOULD YOU MIND DESCRIBING SOME OF THE BUSINESSES OR, UM, STRUCTURES THAT SURROUND THE GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL? YES.
SO THE BACKSIDE OF GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL, THERE IS A SHOPPING CENTER THAT HOLDS STAMPS AND SEVERAL OTHER, UM, RESTAURANTS I SHOULD SAY.
SO THERE IS A BIG, UM, SHOPPING CENTER THAT'S RIGHT BEHIND THE APARTMENT COMPLEX.
NOW, DURING YOUR TIME AT THE PROPERTY, WHETHER THAT'S AS A RESIDENT OR AS A LEASING AGENT, HAVE YOU HEARD PERSONALLY GUNSHOTS BEING FIRED AT ANY POINT? YES.
AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WHERE DID THOSE GUNSHOTS TYPICALLY COME FROM? FROM THE OPEN FIELD BETWEEN THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES ALSO, UH, THE BACK OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX AS WELL.
AND BY THE BACK OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX.
ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE FIELD IN THE BACK OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX? YES, SIR.
AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WHAT IS THE ACTIVITY GOING ON THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE GUNSHOTS THAT YOU'VE HEARD YOUNG TEENS JUST SHOOT SHOOTING FREELY, PRETTY MUCH.
DOES IT SEEM TO BE KIDS OR TEENS ACTING LIKE MAYBE NOT ACCEPTABLE LIENS, BUT TEENS NONETHELESS? CORRECT.
AND IN YOUR TIME AT THE PROPERTY OF THESE, UH, GUNSHOTS, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OF THE FOLKS FIRING THE GUNSHOTS IN THESE OPEN FIELDS, THESE TEENS BEING TENANTS AT THE PROPERTY? THEY ARE NOT TENANTS, NO, SIR.
THEY ARE MY, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY ARE JUST TEENS FROM NEARBY APARTMENT COMPLEX.
NOW, MS. DEAN, UM, PRIOR TO, AND WE WILL GO BACK TO THE RELEVANT TIME PERIOD AS A REMINDER, WHICH IS SEPTEMBER OF 2022 TO AUGUST OF 23.
UM, DID THE PROPERTY EMPLOY ANY DRIVE BY SECURITY? UH, YES, IN THE BEGINNING OF SEPTEMBER 22ND.
UH, AT LEAST UP UNTIL, UH, I WOULD SAY JANUARY OF 2023.
NOW, DURING THAT SAME TIME PERIOD, IF WAS THE PROPERTY IN CONTACT WITH THE LOCAL NPO TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE? YES.
AND WHEN INCIDENTS OR CRIMES OR REPORTS OF CRIMES OCCURRED TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WERE THOSE MATTERS REPORTED OR COMMUNICATED TO THE NPO? YES.
AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? I SPOKE WITH OFFICER CROSS AND OFFICER CROSS.
HE COMES INTO THE OFFICE PERIODICALLY AND HE, UH, UH, HE'LL LET ME KNOW THAT OUR PROPERTY MANAGER AT THE TIME WOULD HAVE REACHED OUT TO HIM MAYBE THE NIGHT BEFORE, OR IT DEPENDS ON THE TIMEFRAME WHEN HE WOULD HAVE CAME INTO THE OFFICE.
BUT HE WILL, UH, HE WILL NOTIFY ME THAT PROPERTY MANAGER HAVE NOTIFIED HIM OF ANY TYPE OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES OR GUNFIRES THAT HAS HAPPENED ON THE PROPERTY.
UM, NOW, MS. DEAN, THE LAST THING I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU JUST BRIEFLY, UM, AND THIS IS IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A RESIDENT OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX CURRENTLY, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU LIVE IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT FOSTERS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? NO.
I FEEL THAT, UM, UH, WHERE I LIVE NOW HAS A LOT OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT GOES ON WITHIN THE COMMUNITY ITSELF, NOT JUST THE APARTMENT COMPLEX.
UH, NOTHING WITH THIS WITNESS, HONORABLE BOARD.
UH, MAY I PROCEED WITH THE NEXT WITNESS TESTING? CAN YOU GUYS HEAR US? WE CAN NOW, YES.
OKAY, MR. HERNANDEZ, UM, I DO WANNA CONFIRM YOU MENTIONED YOU HAVE NO QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS?
[01:50:02]
YES, YOUR HONOR, OR, YES, THAT IS CORRECT.WE WILL NOW PROCEED WITH THE BOARD MEMBER QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS, UH, FOR MS. DEAN.
UH, SO MS. ANO, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? IF SO, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.
UH, MS. MS. WILLIS QUESTIONS I WOULD ASK, UH, MS. DEAN.
AND MY FIRST QUESTION, JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND, YOU'RE THE LEAD AGENT PROPERTY MANAGER, IS THAT CORRECT? YOU WERE BREAKING UP.
COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? I SAID I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I GOT UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY.
YOU'RE THE LEASING AGENT, NOT THE PROPERTY MANAGER? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND MY QUE SECOND QUESTION IS, DOES THE PROPERTY MANAGER, UM, ARE THEY, DO THEY WALK THE SITE AT ALL? DO YOU ALL WALK THE SITE? HOW IS YOU DO HOW OFTEN? YES, MA'AM.
UH, WE WILL DO WALK THE SITE AND THE SITE GETS WALKED.
UM, I WILL SAY THREE TO FOUR DAYS OUT OF THE WEEK WE WALK EVERY OTHER DAY.
UM, MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? IF SO, UM, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES? UH, YES.
UH, MS. DEAN, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.
I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU REAL QUICK, UH, IN THE, IN THE SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOU'VE BEEN THERE ON THE PROPERTY, UM, DO YOU KNOW OR CAN YOU TESTIFY TO, UH, TO, AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPERTY IS SECURED? I, YES, THAT'S THE PROP.
THE PROPERTY IS BEING SECURED CURRENTLY WAY BETTER THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN SINCE I HAVE BEEN HERE.
AND IN WHAT WAYS ARE YOU, ARE YOU SAYING IT'S BEING SECURED? SO WE DO HAVE SECURITY HERE ON PROPERTY DAY AND NIGHT.
WE HAVE OUR GATES WORKING NOW.
UM, THEY ARE CURRENTLY FIXING THE PERIMETER OF THE GATES OF THE HOLES THAT ARE ALLOWING OTHER, OTHER, UM, RESIDENTS FROM OTHER PROPERTIES TO ENTER OUR PROPERTY.
SO EVERYTHING IS BEING REPAIRED AND EVERYTHING IS BEING SECURED AT THIS MOMENT.
AND IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN DISTINGUISH THE, UH, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU MENTIONED, THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT YOU MENTIONED, AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE RESIDENTS OF YOUR PROPERTY FROM ANOTHER PROPERTY? SO IT WILL, WE, THE REPORTS THAT WE GET BACK STATES THAT THOSE, UM, YOUNG TEENS DON'T LIVE ON PROPERTY.
WE EVEN HAVE, HAVE CONVERSATION WITH OUR RESIDENTS TO SEE IF THEY KNOW WHO THE KIDS ARE, AND THEY BASICALLY JUST SAY IF THEY DO HAVE A TEEN IN THEIR HOME, THEY'LL SAY ONE OF THE FRIENDS OF MY SON, OR IT IS A FRIEND OR SOMEONE THEY WENT TO SCHOOL WITH.
SO IT'S, THAT WOULD BE THE WAY THAT WE DISTINGUISH THAT THESE ARE NOT KIDS THAT ARE, THAT LIVE ON OUR PROPERTY.
AND MY FINAL QUESTION, AS A PROPERTY RESIDENCE, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR, IF YOU HAD A, A NUMBER, UH, TOP 10 LIST, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR NUMBER ONE SUGGESTION ON WAYS THAT YOU, UH, WOULD RECTIFY THIS ISSUE? UH, COMMUNITY MEETINGS BEING MORE, UH, INTERACTING WITH OUR RESIDENTS.
UM, MR. JEFFS, UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE WITNESS OR, UM, MR. SINGAPORE? I THANK YOU.
UH, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? IF SO, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED FOR THREE MINUTES FOR, UM, QUESTIONS FOR MR. SINGAPORE OR, UM, OUR WITNESS, UH, MS. DEAN FOR, FOR MS. DEAN, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT SECURITY SERVICES.
YOU SAID IN YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THERE WAS DRIVE BY SECURITY BEGINNING IN SEPTEMBER OF 22, UH, AMONG THE EXHIBITS PRESENTED AS AN AGREEMENT THAT LOOKS TO GO BEYOND DRIVE BY SECURITY, UH, BUT THAT IS DATED SEPTEMBER 27TH, 2023.
CAN YOU HELP ME CLARIFY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT SECURITY MEASURES WERE IN PLACE PRIOR
[01:55:01]
TO THE NOTICE THAT YOU RECEIVED? UH, PREVIOUS SECURITY COMPANY THAT ONLY DID DRIVE BYS JUST RECENTLY.UM, THE DATE THAT YOU SPEAK OF SEPTEMBER 23RD, WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SECURITY COMPANY THAT ACTUALLY DOES MORE THAN JUST A DRIVE BY.
SO YOU HAVE TAKEN MEASURES TO IMPROVE SECURITY, BUT THAT WAS SUBSEQUENT TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, THEN BARELY BY 14 DAYS.
THERE'S A REFERENCE IN THE EXHIBITS TO SOME REPAIRS BEING MADE TO FIRE DAMAGED UNITS.
UH, WHEN DID THAT FIRE OCCUR AND WHAT WAS THE EXTENT OF THE DAMAGE? THE FIRE OCCURRED PRIOR TO, UH, TO MY APPOINTMENT HERE WHEN I STARTED, THERE WAS ALREADY A FIRE THERE.
AND WHEN WERE THE REPAIRS COMPLETED AND THE UNITS BECAME LEASEABLE? THE, THE REPAIRS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED? UM, I WANNA SAY, I WANNA SAY AT LEAST ABOUT FOUR, FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS AGO.
OKAY, SO PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH? CORRECT.
UM, MR. SATNICK, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED FOR THREE MINUTES IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. SINGAPORE OR OUR WITNESS.
UM, I, I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR MR. SINGAPORE.
UM, I, I, I'VE REVIEWED, UH, THE LETTER THAT YOU SENT IN TO THE BOARD LAYING OUT, UH, THE APPELLANT'S POSITIONS, AND I GREATLY APPRECIATE THAT.
UM, A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT, UH, APPELLANT IS ARGUING.
UM, YOU REFERRED TO THE CITY ORDINANCE EXCLUDING, UH, CRIMES OF FAMILY VIOLENCE FROM AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES.
IS IT APPELLANT'S CONTENTION THAT IF, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE CRIME IS, IF IT ALSO INVOLVES FAMILY VIOLENCE, THEN THAT INCIDENT IS NOT ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE PURPOSES OF, UH, 27 DASH 46? YES.
AND, UM, I'M HAPPY TO ELABORATE ON WHY THAT'S OUR CONTENTION.
UH, YEAH, I MEAN, IS THERE SOME, UH, HISTORY IN THE CODE, UM, THAT, THAT YOU BASE THAT ON HISTORY OF THE CODE? NO, BUT THE EXPRESS LANGUAGE OF THE CODE AND BASIC STATUTORY INTERPRETATION, WHICH WOULD APPLY TO THIS ORDINANCE IS WHERE THAT CONCLUSION IS DRAWN FROM.
AND I'LL KIND OF BRIEFLY ELABORATE ON THAT POINT.
WELL, I I, I'VE ONLY GOT THREE MINUTES, SO I'LL, I'LL, I'LL TAKE THAT.
YOU'RE RELYING ON THE PLAIN LANGUAGE OF THE CODE.
UM, IS THERE A DEFINITION OF CRIMES AND FAMILY VIOLENCE THAT YOU'RE RELYING ON? NOT ONE THAT'S EXPRESSLY PROVIDED ON THE CODE, NO.
AND SO, AND, AND SO ONE OF THE INCIDENTS THAT YOU'RE EXCLUDING, AND, UH, I I'M JUST GOING BY YOUR LETTER, UM, COMPLAINANT INFORMED RESPONDING OFFICER THAT HER AND THE ARRESTED PERSON HAVE BEEN DATING.
UM, DO YOU, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN POINT US TO THAT WOULD PUT TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DATING WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF, UH, FAMILY VIOLENCE? NOT WITHIN THE CHAPTER 27 CODE ITSELF? AGAIN, IT WOULD BE THE PLAIN LANGUAGE AND BASIC DEFINITION OF WHAT A DOMESTIC DISPUTE OR FAMILY VIOLENCE IS.
UM, AND DO, DO WE KNOW, UH, AGAIN, I'M JUST, UH, LOOKING AT, AT THEIT SENTENCE THAT IN YOUR LETTER, BUT, UM, DO WE KNOW FROM THE POLICE REPORT THE EXTENT OF THAT DATING RELATIONSHIP? NO, JUST THAT'S, AND, AND, UH, I THERE'S SEVERAL OF THESE, BUT THE ONE THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO, NOT THE EXTENT IT WAS NOT DOCUMENTED BY THE REPORTING OFFICER, JUST THE FACT THAT THEY WERE DATING.
AND THEN, UM, THE, THE FIRST ONE INCIDENT, UH, 0 1 0 1 4 3, THAT APPELLANT CONTENDS IS MISCHARACTERIZED.
UM, THERE IS A CITY, UH, OF DALLAS DPD GENERAL ORDER THAT, UH, PROVIDES THAT IT'S DPD POLICY NOT TO ARREST
[02:00:02]
FOR SMALL QUANTITIES OF MARIJUANA.AND THAT IS APPEARS TO BE, UH, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.
SO IS IT APPELLATE'S CONTENTION THAT THE DPD POLICY NOT TO ARREST FOR THAT MEANS THAT THE OFFENSE DID NOT OCCUR? IT IS BOTH THE DPD POLICY AND CHAPTER 4 81 OF THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE, WHICH IS WHAT IS PROVIDED AS A, AN AVAILABLE NUISANCE.
IT HAS A MINIMUM AMOUNT FOR THAT TO BE COUNTED.
NOW, UH, MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SPORA OR MS. DEAN? OKAY, I APPRECIATE IT.
SO, MS. DEAN, YOUR, YOUR ATTORNEY STATED THAT IT'S NOT A MATTER OF THE OWNERS ARE FOSTERING CRIME ON THAT, ON, ON THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, BUT YET YOU'VE GOT AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS, YOU HAVE DEADLY CONDUCT, ROBBERY, EVADING ARREST, ATTEMPTED ARMED ROBBERY, CRIMINAL MISCHIEF.
YOU HAVE ALL THESE THINGS GOING ON ON THE PROPERTY.
SO WOULDN'T THAT BE THAT THEY'RE NOT FOSTERING, BUT THEY'RE ALLOWING I, UM, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THEY WERE, THEY ARE ALLOWING THE, UH, CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES TO GO ON, BUT YET THEY HAVEN'T TAKEN ENOUGH STEPS TO STOP.
THIS IS QUITE A, A WRAP SHEET OF, OF CRIME, SO TO SPEAK.
UM, BUT YEAH, IT LOOKS, IT APPEARS THAT THEY'RE NOT TAKING THE PROPER STEPS.
UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE'S CRIME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ON THE PROPERTY TOO.
DID I HEAR YOU SAY THAT CORRECTLY? YES.
IN THE COMMUNITY, THERE ARE CRIMES? YES.
SO YOU OPENLY ADMIT THAT THERE IS CRIME ON THE PROPERTY.
UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT, UH, THEY'RE CLEARLY WORKING ON THE FENCES.
UM, THERE ARE, UM, THREE INSTANCES OF WHERE THE FENCE IS BENT DOWN, UM, AND ONE, UH, AREA WHERE IT'S TOTALLY MISSING.
HAVE THOSE BEEN REPAIRED AND ARE THEY SECURE? YES.
OH, SO THAT WORK HAS BEEN COMPLETED.
THE GATES, THE FENCE THAT HAVE BEEN TORN DOWN? YES, THEY ARE CURRENT, THEY'RE CURRENTLY BEING, BEING FIXED NOW, BUT AS OF NOW, I KNOW FOR SURE ON THE SIDE WHERE THERE, THERE'S OPEN FIELD BETWEEN THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, THAT FENCE HAS BEEN FIXED COMPLETELY.
HOW MANY HAVE BEEN TOTALLY FIXED? I KNOW FOR SURE OF ONE.
SO THEREFORE THREE OF 'EM ARE STILL WIDE OPEN? I CAN'T SAY THAT THEY ARE.
WELL, IF THERE'S FOUR AND ONLY ONE'S BEEN FIXED, APPARENTLY THREE, BUT WE'LL MOVE ON.
DID YOU SAY THAT THE ACCESS GATES ARE WORKING NOW? MM-HMM.
THEY HAVE NOT BEEN OPERABLE UNTIL WE GET THE OKAY TO START THE, UH, PROCESS.
SO WHAT, SO, SO THEY'RE STILL OPEN? THEY ARE STILL OPEN CURRENTLY.
SO THE PROPERTY IS NOT SECURED.
THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF BEING SECURE? YES.
WELL, NO, MY QUESTION WAS, IS THE PROPERTY IS NOT SECURE, CORRECT? OR THE GATES OPEN? THE GATES ARE OPEN, YES.
MS. SHIN, OR SORRY, SORRY, MR. QUINT.
UM, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SINGAPORE OR, OR WITNESS IF SO YOU'RE RECOGNIZE FOR THREE MINUTES? THANK YOU.
UM, MS. DEAN, DO YOU, DO RESIDENTS NEED TO REGISTER IN THEIR VEHICLES, UM, TO PARK ON THE PROPERTY? I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT QUESTION? DO RESIDENTS NEED TO REGISTER THEIR VEHICLES TO PARK ON THE PROPERTY? AND IF SO, WHAT DOES THAT PROCESS LOOK LIKE? YES, THEY DO HAVE TO REGISTER VEHICLES TO PARK ON PROPERTY, AND THE PROCESS IS THEY WILL SCAN A QR CODE AND THEY WILL DO EVERYTHING ONLINE ELECTRONICALLY WITH THEIR PHONE.
SO THEY REGISTER THEIR LICENSE PLATE NUMBER, THERE'S NO DECAL OR STICKER ON THEIR VEHICLE? NO.
UM, MR. VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. SINGAPORE OR OUR WITNESS? MS. DEAN, IF SO, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED FOR THREE MINUTES.
UM, AND I HAVE A COUPLE OF, UH, I HAVE A QUESTION.
UH, MR. SINGAPORE, CAN YOU ELABORATE ON YOUR DEFINITION OF FAMILY VIOLENCE, UM,
[02:05:02]
AND HOW SOME OF THESE RELATIONSHIPS BASED ON THE POLICE REPORT DO NOT MAKE THEM AVAILABLE? CAN YOU JUST ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THAT? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.THE CODE DOES NOT ACTUALLY PROVIDE A DEFINITION OF FAMILY VIOLENCE.
AND WHEN THAT'S THE CIRCUMSTANCE, AND IT'S NOT A SPECIFICALLY DEFINED TERM WITHIN AN ORDINANCE, IT'S GIVEN THE PLAIN AND ORDINARY MEANING, WHICH IS VIOLENCE IN BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE SAME FAMILY, THOSE OF THE SAME RELATIONSHIP, THOSE IN WHICH THE TWO INDIVIDUALS, BOTH THE SUSPECT AND THE ASSAILANT THEMSELVES, HAD A PRE-EXISTING RELATIONSHIP, WHICH DROVE OR WAS THE CONTRIBUTING CAUSE TO WHATEVER OFFENSE OCCURRED.
NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL SUBSTANCE OF SOME OF THESE INCIDENT REPORTS, AND I'LL START AT INCIDENT 0 0 8 6 6 0 20 23.
IN THE INCIDENT REPORT ITSELF WHILE DOCUMENTED AS A SEXUAL ASSAULT WITH AN OBJECT, THE INCIDENT REPORT EXPRESSLY STATES BY THE REPORTING OFFICER THAT THE, THE, UH, ASSAILANT WAS ARRESTED TO PREVENT FURTHER ACTS OF FAMILY VIOLENCE.
SO IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCES, THE REPORTING OFFICER PROVIDING THE EXACT PHRASE THAT IS CONTAINED WITHIN THE DALLAS CODE AND EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED FROM BEING ABLE TO BE COUNTED.
NOW, SECONDARILY, THERE IS ALSO INCIDENT NUMBER 1 2 7, EXCUSE ME, 1 1 9 2 23.
THAT IS DOCUMENTED, I BELIEVE, AS AN AGGRAVATED ROBBERY.
AND IN FACT, IT'S ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO THE SEVEN 16 INCIDENT.
UM, ACCORDING TO THE NOTES OF THE REPORTING OFFICER.
HOWEVER, IF YOU LOOK AT THE VICTIM'S SUSPECT CODE THAT IS IN PUT IN BY THE REPORTING OFFICER, IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP.
THE REPORT ALSO STATES THAT DURING THE INVESTIGATION BY THE REPORTING OFFICER THAT THE, THE, UH, VICTIM, EXCUSE ME, HAD A GUN.
THE GUN WAS NOT ABLE TO BE LOCATED, BUT A SHELL WAS FOUND WITHIN THE APARTMENT COMPLEX MEETING, THE GUN THAT FIRED THE BULLET IS NOW GONE.
THE VICTIM WAS ALSO UNCOOPERATIVE WITH IDENTIFYING OR WANTING TO IDENTIFY AND PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT WHO THE ASSAILANT WAS AND HAS DOCUMENTED THROUGH THE REPORTING OFFICER THAT THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP.
SO IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THERE'S A STATUS OF THE RELATIONSHIP, I THINK THE POLICY BEHIND THE CODE, THAT THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE BOUNDS OF AN OWNERSHIP'S CONTROL, GIVEN THE PREEXISTING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE ASSAILANT AND THE, UH, VICTIM.
AND I DO BELIEVE THE FINAL ONE, LET ME HAVE IT HERE.
I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE, UM, ADDITIONAL TIME FOR THAT, BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH.
WE, WE WILL BE DOING, UH, WE'LL BE GOING AROUND ONCE MORE FOR ANOTHER ROUND OF BOARD QUESTIONS.
UH, THANK YOU MR. S FOR I WILL GO AHEAD AND START FROM THE TOP BOARD MEMBERS IF YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
NOW WE WILL, NOW YOU WILL BE RECOGNIZED FOR AN ADDITIONAL THREE MINUTES.
UM, MS. ANO, THANK YOU, MS. WILLIS.
UH, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW.
UH, MR. JEFFERSON, MR. JEFFERSON, UH, MS. JEFFS OR MR. JEFFS? SORRY.
MR. JEFF? MR. HAYES? YEAH, I WANNA FOLLOW UP ON THE VEHICLE ISSUE.
UM, DO YOU, MS. DEAN, DO YOU HAVE A POLICY IN PLACE WHERE YOU WILL TOW AWAY UNREGISTERED VEHICLES? AND WHAT IS THAT POLICY? AND DO YOU HAVE A CONTRACT WITH A TOWING SERVICE DO? YES.
WE HAVE A, A CONTRACT WITH A TOWING SERVICES, AND IF THERE IS UNREGISTERED VEHICLES, WE HAVE TOWING COMPANY THAT'S ON OUR PROPERTY THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND NIGHT TO, UM, COLLECT THOSE VEHICLES.
UM, HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY THOSE UNREGISTERED VEHICLES? THERE'S NO STICKER ON THE CAR BECAUSE THE TOWING COMPANY HAS A SYSTEM THAT THEY USE FOR OUR REGISTERED, UH, VEHICLES ON OUR PROPERTY THAT MENTIONS LICENSE PLATE NUMBERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR DESCRIPTION OF THE CAR LICENSE PLATE NUMBER.
AND HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU ESTIMATE THAT TOWING SERVICE IS USED, LET'S SAY PER MONTH? IS IT ONCE A MONTH OR 10 TIMES A MONTH? OR GIMME, GIMME ME A BALLPARK.
HOW MANY VEHICLES THEY'RE TOWING A MONTH? YEAH.
JUST A BALLPARK ESTIMATE IF YOU COULD.
THE, THE SERVICES, UH, JUST STARTED, SO WE HAVEN'T GOT ANY TO TOW OUT YET.
WHEN DID IT START? TWO WEEKS AGO.
[02:10:03]
THANK YOU.MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR EITHER, UH, OUR WITNESS OR MR. SINGAPORE? YES, MA'AM.
SO YOU MENTIONED THERE'S A QR CODE FOR WHEN GATES WILL BE OPERABLE.
UM, IS THAT QR CODE SHAREABLE? THE QR CODE IS FOR REGISTERING THE CAR.
THEY WILL ACTUALLY HAVE A CODE TO ENTER THE, THE PROPERTY WITH THE, UH, GATES.
SO THEY'LL, THEY'LL ACTUALLY ENTER A, UH, UH, A NUMBER CODE? CORRECT.
AND I NOTICED THAT DURING THE ONE OF THE ROBBERIES THAT THERE'S PROSTITUTION GOING ON.
UM, IS THAT A ISSUE YOU HAVE GOING ON THAT YOU KNOW OF? NO, SIR.
SO THAT WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT? YES, SIR.
NEVER HEARD ANY INCIDENT LIKE THAT.
IT WAS LISTED IN THE POLICE REPORT.
I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF PROSTITUTION ON PROPERTY.
SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MS. DEAN.
DO YOU OR HOW, CAN YOU REMIND US HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED ON THE PROPERTY? HOW LONG HAVE I BEEN WORKING HERE? OR HOW LONG HAVE I BEEN LIVING HERE? HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING THERE AS A RESIDENT? I'VE MOVED HERE IN JULY OF 2023.
DO YOU FEEL SAFE LIVING ON THE PROPERTY? I DO NOW.
SO YOU DIDN'T BEFORE, UM, BEFORE THERE? NO, MA'AM.
UM, MR. SINGAPORE, YOU MENTIONED, UH, WHEN THERE'S FAMILY INVOLVED, IT CANNOT BE AT THE SAME TIME AN AVAILABLE CRIME BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING MANAGEMENT OR PROPERTY OWNERS CAN DO BECAUSE THAT RELATIONSHIP EXISTS.
IS THAT YOUR TAKE ON SOME OF THESE CRIMES THAT HAVE HAPPENED? YES.
UM, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SEXUAL ASSAULT WITH AN OBJECT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PREVENTED BY ANYONE ON THE PROPERTY BECAUSE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP, BECAUSE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT.
I THINK THAT'S WHY CITY COUNCIL EXCLUDED FAMILY VIOLENCE AS AN DEBATABLE OFFENSE, JUST AS A POINT OF CLARITY, BUT YES.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ON MY END.
WE WILL, UM, NOW MOVE TO TWO SECONDS.
WE WILL NOW MOVE TO YOUR SECOND WITNESS AT THIS TIME.
WE'D LIKE TO CALL MS. BAIN SIMONE, PLEASE.
UM, MS. SIMON, WOULD YOU MIND INTRODUCING YOURSELF, UH, TO THE BOARD? SURE.
HI, I AM LESLIE BAIN EK, AND I WORK FOR CITADEL REAL ESTATE GROUP, THE CURRENT OWNERS OF GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL.
UM, AND WHAT IS YOUR TITLE OR, UH, JO GENERAL JOB DESCRIPTION WITH CITADEL? UM, UH, VP OF ASSET MANAGEMENT, I, I BASICALLY, UM, MANAGE, UH, THE OPERATIONS OF THE PROPERTIES O OVER THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY, THIRD PARTY MANAGEMENT COMPANIES WE USE.
PRIOR TO RECEIVING THE, UM, HCP NOTICE ITSELF, WHICH I BELIEVE IS DATED SEPTEMBER 13TH OF THIS, OF LAST YEAR, 2023, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WAS THE PROPERTY PROVIDED WITH ANY OTHER NOTICES OR COMMUNICATIONS THAT A POTENTIAL DESIGNATION WAS IN PLACE? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
AND DO YOU RECALL THE ACCORD MEETING TAKING PLACE ON OCTOBER 10TH, 2023? YES, I ATTENDED.
AND SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, I BELIEVE YOU RECEIVED THE FINAL DESIGNATION, WHICH WAS NOVEMBER 9TH, 2023.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
NOW, UH, BOARD MEMBER HAYES, I BELIEVE, WAS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
[02:15:01]
SECURITY CONTRACT THAT THE SECURITY COMPANY IS CURRENTLY IN PLACE.YOU SIGNED THAT AGREEMENT, RIGHT? YES.
AND YOU SIGNED THAT IN SEPTEMBER OF 2023, RIGHT? YES.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT, HOW THE CURRENT SECURITY IN PLACE, WHAT IT IS, AND THEIR PRESENCE, AND JUST SOME DETAIL ON THAT? YEAH.
UM, WE CHANGED COMPANIES DUE TO THE, UH, FACT THAT THE PREVIOUS COMPANY WAS JUST A DRIVE-THROUGH PATROL COMPANY, THE NEW COMPANY THAT STARTED THE END OF SEPTEMBER, UH, OR MAYBE THE BEGINNING OF OCTOBER, THEY ARE ACTUALLY COMMISSION GUARDS THAT WORK FROM 6:00 PM TO 6:00 AM THEY, UH, WALK THE GROUNDS AND, UM, TAKE TURNS, UH, SITTING AT THE FRONT OF THE GATE, THE GUARD SHACK.
NOW, JUST TO CLARIFY THE TIMELINE OF THIS, YOU SIGNED THIS AGREEMENT FOR THIS TYPE OF SECURITY SERVICE BEFORE THE ACCORD MEETING, IS THAT RIGHT? YES, THAT'S THAT'S CORRECT.
AND BEFORE THE PROPERTY WAS NOTIFIED THAT THE DESIGNATION WAS FINAL, RIGHT? THAT, THAT'S CORRECT.
NOW, I HEARD, UH, MY OPPOSING COUNSEL, MR. HERNANDEZ, SAY THAT THIS, THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN TO REQUIRE A PLACARD ON THE PROPERTY AND THE OWNERS TO PAY A FEE TO ENCOURAGE PROPERTY OWNERS TO TAKE MEASURES TO ENHANCE SECURITY OR PROTECT THE PROPERTY.
UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT YOU DID THESE THINGS WITHOUT A PLACARD OR A FEE, RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND IN FACT, DID PROPERTY OWNERSHIP DO THIS IMMEDIATELY ONCE THEY WERE NOTIFIED THAT THERE WAS AN HCP ISSUE? WE DID IT PRIOR TO, PRIOR TO THE FINAL DESIGNATION, RIGHT? YES.
NOW I WANNA CLARIFY, UM, A COUPLE THINGS ON THE TOWING SIDE OF THINGS.
THE CURRENT TOWING COMPANY, I BELIEVE MS. DEAN TESTIFIED TO AND PROVIDED ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS, UH, CAME INTO PLACE SEVERAL WEEKS AGO.
IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? THAT THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.
PRIOR TO THAT, WAS THERE ANOTHER TOWING COMPANY IN PLACE AT THE PROPERTY? THERE WAS, THERE'S BEEN A TOWING COMPANY IN PLACE, UM, BUT THE REASON IT WAS CHANGED A FEW WEEKS BACK IS THE CURRENT TOWING COMPANY HAS A BETTER SYSTEM IN PLACE FOR TAGGING CARS.
AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT SYSTEM A LITTLE BIT? UH, THAT SYSTEM IS, THEY USE A, UM, IT'S LIKE A VIRTUAL TAG.
UH, WHEN IT COMES TO THE LICENSE PLATES, UH, IT UPLOADS IN THEIR SYSTEM.
THEY CAN IMMEDIATELY CHECK IT AND VERIFY WHETHER IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ON PROPERTY OR NOT.
AND, UM, NOW THE NEXT THING I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT IS THE SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM CURRENTLY IN PLACE? YES.
UM, CAN YOU PLEASE DESCRIBE THAT FOR THE BOARD? UH, YES.
THERE ARE CURRENTLY 26 CAMERAS THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY.
THERE ACTUALLY HAVE, THEY HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE 2014, BUT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ALL OPERABLE.
WE RECENTLY STARTED, UH, WE SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH STEALTH MONITORING TO GET THOSE NEW CAMERAS IN PLACE, THE TRANSMITTERS BACK AND RUNNING.
AND AS OF, UH, LAST WEEK, I BELIEVE IT WAS, THEY WENT FULLY LIVE AND THEY WERE MONITORED LIVE FROM 10:00 PM TO 6:00 AM.
NOW, UM, THE NEXT THING I'D LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT ARE SOME OF THESE OPEN FIELDS WHERE I BELIEVE MS. DEAN TESTIFIED ABOUT THE GUNSHOTS AND GUN FIRES EMANATING FROM, I GUESS, FROM TEENS JUST PLAYING AROUND, ALBEIT NOT APPROPRIATELY, BUT NEVERTHELESS, TEEN SHOOTING GUNS.
UM, NOW DOES CITADEL OR ANY AFFILIATED CITADEL OWN THESE OPEN FIELDS SURROUNDING THE APARTMENT COMPLEX? NO, THEY DO NOT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENS IN THESE OPEN FIELDS? WE DO NOT.
AND HAVE EFFORTS BEEN MADE TO CONTACT THE OWNERS OF THESE OPEN FIELDS REGARDING THESE INCIDENTS, WHICH ULTIMATELY LEAD TO TRANSGRESSIONS AND AFFECTING TENANTS AT THE PROPERTY? YES.
UH, WE WERE TOLD THAT THE OWNER HAS A CONTRACT WITH A LANDSCAPE COMPANY AND THE CITY OF DALLAS ONLY REQUIRES THEM TO CUT BACK A HUNDRED FEET FROM THE MAIN ROAD.
AND SO FURTHER BACK FROM A HUNDRED FEET OFF THE MAIN ROAD.
WHAT IS THE GENERAL LANDSCAPE BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATIONS OF THESE OPEN FIELDS? IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY ANYWHERE FROM FOUR TO SIX FEET HIGH.
[02:20:01]
THERE, THERE'S TRAILS, THERE'S FOOT TRAILS THAT COME TO, UM, OUR PROPERTY.UM, AND THAT'S WHERE THE FOOT TRAFFIC COMES FROM TO GO THROUGH THAT USES OUR PROPERTY KINDA LIKE A THOROUGHFARE TO GO OVER TO THE CONVENIENCE STORE AND SAM'S AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THEY CONTINUE TO TEAR DOWN THE FENCE EVERY TIME WE GO TO REPAIR IT.
BUT BACK TO THE FIELD, YEAH, IT, IT STANDS ANYWHERE FROM FOUR TO SIX FEET HIGH SINCE IT HASN'T BEEN MOWED TOWARDS OUR BY OUR PROPERTY.
AND IS, IS THE HEIGHT OR THE CONDITION OF THESE FIELDS SOMETHING THAT WOULD LEND ITSELF TO PEOPLE WITH GUNS OR OTHER ASSAILANTS BEING ABLE TO EASILY HIDE OR BE REMOVED FROM PLAIN SIGHT? YES.
AND AGAIN, YOU HAVE MADE EFFORTS TO CONTACT THESE PROPERTY OWNERS, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
WAS THE ISSUE OF THESE OPEN FIELDS AND THEIR CONDITION BROUGHT UP AT THE ACCORD MEETING AT ALL? YES, IT WAS.
CAN YOU DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT CONVERSATION WENT WITH THE BOARD? UM, WE ASKED IF AT THAT TIME WE HAD NOT, WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO OWNERSHIP WAS OF THE FIELD, SO WE ASKED, UH, THE OFFIC CITY OFFICIALS IN THE ACCORD MEETING IF THEY KNEW, AND WE WERE TOLD THAT NO ONE KNEW.
NOW, THE FENCING THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED A LITTLE BIT HERE, UM, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE FENCING THAT WAS IN PLACE AND CURRENTLY IN PLACE FROM THE TIME CITADEL PURCHASED THE PROPERTY? IN FEBRUARY OF 22? YEAH, THERE'S, UM, A PORTION OF THE FENCE IS IRON, IRON PICKETS.
AND THEN, UH, STARTING FROM THE BUILDINGS BACK TOWARDS THE PROPERTY HICKORY TRACE BEHIND US, IT WOULD BE CHAIN LINK.
NOW, IS THAT, WHAT IS OWNERSHIP? SO JUST TO BACK UP A SEC.
SO THERE IS PERIMETER FENCING AROUND THE APARTMENT COMPLEX, THE ENTIRE PROPERTY? YES.
AND HAS PROPERTY OWNERSHIP HAVE, DOES, DOES IT HAVE PLANS OR HAS IT TAKEN STEPS WITH RESPECT TO REPLACING THAT FENCING IN ANY WAY? YES, ACTUALLY IT'S BEEN REPAIRED AND REPLACED ON MANY OCCASIONS.
UM, THE LATEST WAS IN OCTOBER, UM, AND IT CONTINUES TO GET TORN DOWN.
SO THEY HAVE NOT ONLY MAINTENANCE, BUT, BUT MAINTEN OUTSIDE CONTRACTORS CONTINUING TO COME IN AND REPAIR THE FENCE.
UH, IT, IT'S, IT'S JUST, IT'S A NEVER ENDING CYCLE OF REPAIRS AND IT GETS TORN DOWN AGAIN.
AND IS OWNERSHIP CONTEMPLATING MORE OF A PERMANENT SOLUTION TO THE FACT THAT THIS CAN BE TORN DOWN OR HOLES CAN BE OPENED? YES, WE ARE, WE HAVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, FACING THAT OPEN FIELD, UH, WE HAVE INQUIRED ABOUT INSTALLING A DOUBLE PAN, UH, DOUBLE SIDED METAL FENCE.
UH, AND THEN THE REST OF IT WOULD BE IRON WITH EXPANSION METAL, BOTH TYPES OF MATERIAL.
WOULD YOU BASICALLY, YOU CAN'T STEP ON IT, YOU DON'T HAVE A RAIL TO STEP, YOU KNOW, OR GET THROUGH, AND IT'S THE TYPE OF MATERIAL THAT YOU CAN'T JUST KICK DOWN.
AS THE PROCESS TO INSTALL THAT TYPE OF FENCE ALREADY BEGUN? YES, IT HAS.
AND DO YOU KNOW APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT PROCESS BEGAN? IT STARTED THE MIDDLE OF OCTOBER ONCE I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM INSPECTOR RALPH HAYES STATING THAT THE MATERIALS WE REQUESTED, UH, WERE APPROVED.
AND SO A REQUEST HAD BEEN MADE TO A CITY CODE OFFICER ABOUT THIS METAL PANEL FENCING TO BE INSTALLED.
AND ONCE APPROVAL WAS GIVEN, THE PROCESS BEGAN WITH INSTALLATION AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE FENCE? YEAH, THE CON UH, THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE FENCE, THEY STARTED THE PREFABBING AT THE, UM, THE FENCE COMPANY'S SHOP.
SO THE FENCE IS ESPECIALLY BEING FABRICATED BY THE COMPANY? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND HAVE ANY EFFORTS BEEN MADE TO GO AHEAD AND START GETTING A PERMIT OR OBTAIN A PERMIT TO INSTALL THE FENCE? WE WERE TOLD WE DID NOT NEED A PERMIT UNTIL THE END OF NOVEMBER.
I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM INSPECTOR RALPH HAYES, UM, INFORMING ME THAT HE WAS GETTING PUSHED BACK ON THE APPROVAL HE HAD ORIGINALLY GIVEN US TO INSTALL THAT MATERIAL, THAT TYPE OF MATERIAL, AND THAT I WOULD NEED TO CONTACT SOMEONE ELSE TO, UH, GET APPROVAL FOR THAT.
UM, I WAS NOT GIVEN THAT INFORMATION OF WHO I NEEDED TO SPEAK WITH UNTIL APPROXIMATELY, I WANNA SAY TWO WEEKS AGO.
AND HAVE YOU CONTACTED THAT PERSON AT THE CITY REGARDING
[02:25:01]
THE NECESSITY OF A PERMIT? YES, THAT WOULD BE, UH, YES.AND I'VE ALREADY SPOKEN TO HER.
AND SO THAT IS IN THE PROCESS.
AND JUST GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT IS THE COST OF OFFENSE OF SOME OF THIS NATURE? JUST THAT PORTION, UH, FACING THE SOUTH SIDE, THAT ONE PORTION IS $143,000.
AND FOR THE REMAINDER, THE REMAINDER INSTALLING IRON WITH EXPANSION METAL, UH, IS GONNA RANGE PROBABLY AROUND 150,000.
AND DO YOU KNOW THE APPROXIMATE MONTHLY COST OF THE CURRENT SECURITY THAT'S IN PLACE AT THE PROPERTY? YES.
AND HAVE THERE BEEN ANY ADDITIONAL UPGRADES TO EXTERIOR LIGHTING, FOR INSTANCE? YES, THERE HAS BEEN, UM, ACTUALLY QUITE A BIT.
UH, WE'VE INSTALLED NEW, UH, BUILDING LIGHTS WITH, UH, A HIGHER WATTAGE, UM, NEW PORCH LIGHTS WITH MUCH HIGHER WATTAGE, AND ALSO POLE LIGHTS THAT WEREN'T ORIGINALLY ON THE PROPERTY THROUGHOUT IN SOME DARK AREAS THAT ARE USED, UH, SOLAR POWERED THAT, UM, ALSO HAVE THEIR LED WITH, UM, UH, THOUSAND THOUSAND WATT LED BULBS.
NOW THE LAST THING I'D LIKE TO TOUCH ON MS. UH, BAIN SIMONIC IS, UM, THE CONDITION OF THE PROPERTY GENERALLY, WHICH IS PART OF THE BOARD'S INQUIRY HERE TODAY.
HAS THERE BEEN A MULTI-TENANT GRADED INSPECTION OF THE PROPERTY IN RECENT MONTHS? YES, IT WAS, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS CONDUCTED AT THE END OF OCTOBER.
AND ARE YOU AWARE OF THE GRADE THE PROPERTY RECEIVED? YES, WE RECEIVED A 98%.
NOW, IS THERE ANY WAY THE PROPERTY FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE COULD HAVE FIXED THE PROPERTY OR DONE ANYTHING IN A ONE MONTH PERIOD BETWEEN THE NOTICE OF HCP AND THAT MULTI-TENANT INSPECTION TO GO AHEAD AND OBTAIN A 98? OR WAS THAT A PRODUCT OF LONGER TERM MANAGEMENT AND OPERATION? UH, LONGER TERM MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS, JUST CONTINUAL OPERATIONS.
UM, MR. MR, I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW 20 MINUTES.
UM, DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTION? ANY QUESTION, THE APPELLANT OR APP, PLEASE? BRIEFLY.
UH, IT'LL BE TWO OR THREE QUESTIONS.
UH, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE IMPROVEMENTS ON THIS PROPERTY THAT ARE ADDRESSING CRIMINAL AAT ACTIVITY OCCURRED AFTER SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023? I WOULD SAY IS FAIR AS IT COMES FOR THE TOWING AND SECURITY SERVICE.
WERE THERE PRIOR, WE JUST UPDATED THOSE SERVICES, JUST UPDATED THOSE SERVICES.
AND KNOWING THAT, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF FOOT TRAFFIC COMING ONTO THE PROPERTY FROM THESE CRIME INFESTED FIELDS, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT INVESTING IN ONSITE GUARDS WOULD PREVENT CRIME WALKING ONTO THE PROPERTY? YES.
AND PERHAPS WALK ME THROUGH THE DIFFERENT HOLES OF THE FENCING THAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE PROPERTY? YES.
AND, UM, WHEN, AND, AND TALKING ABOUT THE FENCING, JUST BRIEFLY, YOU, AFTER THE SEPTEMBER 13TH DESIGNATION AND, AND I BELIEVE WHAT, DURING, AFTER THE ACCORD MEETING, YOU HAD BEEN WORKING WITH, UH, INSPECTOR RALPH HAYES ON NAVIGATING THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS OR WHAT WE WOULD CALL BI PROCESS.
IN THE ACCORD MEETING, I HAD SPOKE TO ACTUALLY, AND INSPECTOR HAYES HAYES ABOUT THE MATERIAL WE WANTED TO USE TO USE.
I WAS TOLD THAT TOLD HE NEEDS TO FIND OUT OUT IF WE NEEDED A PERMIT, WERE ALLOWED THE NEXT DAY ON, ON OCTOBER 11TH.
OCTOBER 11TH, AN EMAIL FROM HIM SAYING, I'M STATING, AND THAT I DID NOT PERMIT ENLISTMENT WITH AN EIGHT MONTH.
AND, AND THAT, TO BE FAIR, THAT THAT I GUESS WHAT THEY CALL OUR PANELING IS THAT, IS THAT THE RIGHT TERM? THE RP R THAT YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
THAT'S A DIFFERENT MATERIAL THAN THE CURRENT, WHAT, WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON
[02:30:01]
THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY CHAIN LINK, A COMBINATION OF CHAIN, LINK AND, UM, CAST IRON.AND SO THERE'S NOTHING NECESSARILY PREVENTING CONTINUED MAINTENANCE OF THE CURRENT SENSING WHILE YOU'RE, FOR LACK OF BETTER WORDS, ENDURING THE PROCESS WITH BI FOR BUILDING INSPECTIONS TO GET APPROVAL FOR THE R EIGHT FENCING.
WOULD THAT BE FAIR? NOW ASK, ASK THAT QUESTION AGAIN, THAT QUESTION AGAIN.
UM, I GUESS WELL, LET, LET ME ASK ONE DIFFERENT QUESTION.
AT ONE POINT WHEN YOU DIDN'T, WHEN YOU NO LONGER HEARD FROM INSPECTOR HAYES, UM, WAS THAT DURING A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE HE WAS IN FACT HELPING, BUT THEN HE LEARNED SUBSEQUENTLY THAT YOUR, YOUR COMPANY HAD RETAINED MR. SINGER PERRA AS COUNSEL REGARDING THIS HCP APPEAL? YES.
WE, YES, WE WERE COMMUNICATING WITH EACH OTHER, OTHER THAT TIME.
I THINK WE NEED, 'CAUSE WE ARE GETTING SOME ECHO FROM HER MICROPHONE, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE CAN HEAR HER APPROPRIATELY.
SO, SO MR. FERNANDEZ, I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS, I BELIEVE YOU AND MS. SONIA, DETECTIVE HAYES, ARE IN THE SAME ROOM, CORRECT? CORRECT.
IF, IF ONE OF YOU ALL CAN JUST MUTE YOUR COMPUTER THAT WAY, AUDIO IS BEING FED ONLY THROUGH ONE THROUGH HOURS IN THAT ROOM.
UH, SHE'S INDICATING THAT HER COMPUTER IS MUTED AND SHE HAS EAR, I THINK SHE HAS EARPODS IN.
I WAIT TILL THEY, OH, YOU DON'T HAVE EARPODS.
AND WILL THIS BE, YOU'RE MUTED.
DOES THIS COUNT AGAINST MY TIME, THE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY? IT DOES NOT.
ARE Y'ALL STILL GETTING ECHOES FROM, FROM OUR SIDE? UM, MS. MS. BAIN, CAN YOU, UM, GIVE US QUICK AUDIO CHECK BECAUSE IT WAS COMING THROUGH YOU WHEN YOU I WAS, I WAS ECHOING.
AM I STILL ECHOING? NOPE, YOU'RE GOOD NOW.
UH, YOU'VE ONLY USED THREE MINUTES OF YOUR 30 MINUTES, UH, MR. HERNANDEZ, SO YOU MAY PROCEED.
UM, SO THE LAST QUESTION WOULD BE, WERE YOU ON THE EMAIL THREAD THAT MR. S UH, MR. SUPRA, UH, EXPRESSED THERE PREFERENCE TO GO THROUGH BUILDING IN INSPECTION FOR THE APPROVAL PROCESS AND, UM, INSTEAD OF UTILIZING COMMUNITY PROSECUTION'S RESOURCES TO WITNESS, UM, INSPECTOR
NOTHING FURTHER, UM, WITH MS. EK.
WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO BOARD QUESTIONING OF, UH, MS. BA EK OR MR. SANTORA.
I WILL GO, UM, IN TURN, SO IF YOU DO HAVE A QUESTION, YOU WILL BE ACKNOWLEDGED FOR THREE MINUTES, AND I WILL START WITH, UH, MS. ANO.
I HAVE ONE QUESTION AND, UM, MAYBE I MISSED IT, BUT, SO, UM, YOU GUYS, OKAY, SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I'M, I DON'T KNOW WHERE I MAYBE MISSED IT, BUT AGAIN, THE LEASING AGENT, YOU GUYS HAVE HER, AND WHERE IS THE PROPERTY MANAGER? AND I MISSED, I THINK I MISSED THAT.
YOU'RE ASKING WHERE THE CURRENT PROPERTY MANAGER IS? YES.
SO YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A PROPERTY MANAGER FOR THAT SITE IN PARTICULAR? YES.
WE ACTUALLY CHANGED MANAGEMENT COMPANIES.
UH, THE NEW MANAGEMENT COMPANY TOOK OVER IN NOVEMBER.
AND SO EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE SITE ARE NEW TO THE PROPERTY, THEREFORE, THAT'S WHY MS. DEAN IS PART OF THIS APPEAL OR IS A WITNESS OF THIS.
UM, I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
UM, THANK YOU MS. UH,
[02:35:01]
THAT YOU GUYS ARE PUTTING INTO BRINGING YOUR PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE.UM, HOWEVER, I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS IN REGARD TO LIGHTING.
UM, I NOTICED THAT YOU PUT A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON THE FENCE AND, AND MAKING SOME CORRECTIONS THERE, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT AFTER THE FACT, BUT STILL YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IT.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE FOOT TRAFFIC THAT YOU'VE, UH, ALREADY FOUND, AND YOU ALSO HAVE AN AREA WHERE THE FIELD WHERE THERE'S, UH, TEENAGERS SHOOTING AND STUFF, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED USING MORE LIGHTING IN THOSE AREAS? YES, ACTUALLY WE HAVE.
AND THAT THE, THAT LIGHTING HAS BEEN COMPLETED, IS IT BEING UTILIZED? YES, IT IS.
IT IS ON OUR, IT'S ACTUALLY ON OUR PROPERTY AND WE DO HAVE LIGHT SPACING, THE DARK AREAS, WHICH ARE THE FIELDS, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA SHOW IT PROBABLY ONLY, UH, IT MAY GO 10 FEET PAST OUR PROPERTY LINE.
WELL, IT'S GOOD ADHERENCE TYPE OF, OF, OF OFFENSE.
DO YOU LIVE ON THE PROPERTY? NO, SIR.
MR. UM, JEFFERSON, UH, NOW WE HAVE MR. JEFFS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES.
UM, MS. WILLIS ALREADY ASKED MY ONE QUESTION, MS. BAIN SEMANTIC.
UM, WHERE DO YOU LIVE? NEW YORK? NO, SIR.
SO HOW, SO HOW FREQUENTLY ARE YOU ON SITE AT THAT PROPERTY AND HOW MANY OTHER PROPERTIES ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR? THE, WE HAVE, UH, I VISIT THE SITE ON AVERAGE OF ONCE A MONTH, AND I HAVE ANOTHER PROPERTY IN FORT WORTH, AND THEN THE REST OF OUR TIES ARE IN, UM, ATLANTA AND SOUTH CAROLINA.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALWAYS COMES UP IN THESE HEARINGS, UH, IS, IS THE COMPLICATION OF THE FACT THAT THERE'S VERY LITTLE TIME BETWEEN THE INITIAL NOTICE OF PRESUMPTION, THEN THE ACCORD MEETING, THEN THE FINAL DETERMINATION AS AN HCP.
SO IT'S UNREASONABLE TO EXPECT EVERYTHING TO BE COMPLETED WITHIN THAT TIMEFRAME, BUT WE WOULD CERTAINLY LIKE TO SEE E UH, EVIDENCE THAT THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS TO INITIATE CORRECTIVE ACTIONS PRIOR TO THE ACCORD MEETING OR PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH EVEN.
UH, YOU'VE ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT YOU MUST HAVE BEEN, UH, EXCUSE ME.
I'M ASSUMING FROM YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU MUST HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT SECURITY SERVICE UPGRADES EVEN PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 11TH WHEN YOU SIGNED IT.
YOU DIDN'T JUST GET THAT PROPOSAL AND SIGN IT THE SAME DAY.
YOU HAD ALREADY DONE SOME RESEARCH, SO THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS INITIATED PRIOR.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER MEASURES THAT Y'ALL HAVE TAKEN PRIOR TO THE SEPTEMBER 10TH OR SEPTEMBER 13TH? EXCUSE ME, THAT, UM, WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF? I MEAN, LIKE FENCES, YOU CAN'T FINISH THOSE IN A DAY, AND YOU'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THAT AT SOME DEPTH.
UH, HOW ABOUT LIKE, THE LIGHTING ISSUES? WERE ANY OF THOSE KIND OF AN ONGOING THING THAT WERE BEING DONE PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER OR JUST ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYBODY WAKE UP WHEN YOU GOT THIS LETTER?
WE WERE CHANGING OUT BULBS AND FIXTURES AS NEEDED.
UM, BUT THE EXTENT TO THE WATTAGE AND THE EXTRA POLES INSTALLED WERE NOT UNTIL AFTER THE, UM, THE ACCORD MEETING.
HOW ABOUT THE CAR REGISTRATION PROCESS? WAS THAT CHANGE IN PRO IN PROGRESS AT SOME POINT OR WHEN DID THAT UH, YES.
YES, THAT WAS ACTUALLY, SO CAR REGISTRATION, UM, FIRST OF ALL, THE REG, THE LICENSE PLATES ARE REQUIRED ON THE APPLICATION FOR EACH RESIDENT, FOR EACH NEW RESIDENT.
SO WHEN IT CAME TO, UH, CHANGING TOWING COMPANIES, UH, IT WAS BECAUSE OF THEIR SYSTEM THAT, UM, WE WENT WITH A DIFFERENT COMPANY.
IT'S AVIR, LIKE I SAID, IT'S A VIRTUAL SYSTEM, AND THAT WAS IN PLACE PRIOR TO, UM, THE VIOLATION LETTERS BEING SENT.
HOW ABOUT THE QR CODE SYSTEM? THAT THAT'S THE SYSTEM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? OH, THAT, THAT WAS HAND IN HAND WITH THE ATTORNEY COMMAND? YES.
THANK YOU THAT, NO MORE QUESTIONS? MM-HMM,
UM, MR. POINT QUESTIONS, AND MR. HAYES, AGAIN, YOU TOOK QUITE A FEW OF MY
[02:40:01]
QUESTIONS, SO I APPLAUD YOU.UM, MS. SINEK, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU GO TO THE PROPERTY ONCE A MONTH AND YOU HAVE ONE OTHER HERE IN DALLAS.
DO YOU TRAVEL TO THE OTHER PROPERTIES OUTSIDE THE STATE? YES, I DO.
SO YOU, THE GUARD, YOU MENTIONED THE GUARDS NOW, UM, ARE THEY THERE 24 7? NO, SIR, THEY ARE NOT.
THEY'RE THERE FROM 6:00 PM TO 6:00 AM OKAY.
SO, SO DURING THE DAYTIME HOURS WHERE A CRIME DOES OCCUR, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SECURITY? WE DON'T HAVE PAID SECURITY, BUT THERE ARE THE EMPLOYEES OF THE PROPERTY, UH, PLUS THE CAMERA SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE.
SO, SO YOU HAD 26 CAMERAS IN PLACE, BUT 14 WERE NOT OPERABLE.
UM, WHY WERE THEY NOT OPERABLE BEFORE YOU HAD THE, THE COURT MEETING AND GOT THE HCP LETTER? I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THEY WERE BROKEN.
UM, I'M NOT SURE IT WAS, UH, BUT KNOWING THAT, BUT KNOWING THEY WEREN'T WORKING, WOULDN'T MANAGEMENT SAY WE NEED TO MAKE THEM WORK? YES.
SO IN A CERTAIN SENSE, MANAGEMENT REALLY WAS KIND OF, FORGIVE ME FOR USING THIS WORD, IGNORING THE 14 CAMERAS.
UM, MOVING ON TO THE FENCE THAT, UH, THAT YOU'RE, UH, ATTEMPTING TO PUT IN, IT'S BEING FABRICATED.
UM, NOW THAT YOU NEED A LICENSE, UM, IS THERE A TIMETABLE WHEN IT COULD GO IN? UM, ONCE I GET, UH, MS. BARQUE THE MATERIALS THAT SHE HAS REQUESTED, THE TYPE OF MATERIALS WE WANT TO USE, WHICH WILL BE TODAY, UM, WE CAN START THE INSTALL AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK DUE TO THE FENCE ALREADY.
NOT TO INTERRUPT, NOT NOT TO INTERRUPT YOU.
YOU SAID THAT, THAT YOU'VE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE CITY.
WILL YOU GET YOUR APPROVAL? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO YOU CAN'T START NEXT WEEK IF YOU HAVE APPROVAL.
I SAID WE COULD START AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK ONCE MS.
UM, ONE LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.
YOU SAID THAT Y'ALL ARE PUTTING IN, UH, SOLAR POWERED LIGHTS.
WILL THEY HAVE EITHER BACK BATTERY BACKUP OR ELECTRIC BACKUP? THEY DO HAVE ELECTRIC BACKUP.
I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING THAT WITH THE LIGHTS.
MS. BANKS,
UM, YOU STATED THAT YOU HAVE 26 CAMERAS, UM, BUT MY, UH, MY TABLET IS NOT LOADING AT THIS TIME, BUT IT LOOKED LIKE YOU HAVE MORE THAN 30 BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO ARE YOUR CAMERAS POSITIONED IN A WAY THAT YOU HAVE VISIBILITY TO ALL THE BUILDINGS? YES.
NO OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, MS. HIN.
OKAY, UM, I HAVE A QUESTION STARTING MY TIME NOW.
UM, MS. BATES EK, CAN YOU REMIND US JUST ONE MORE TIME, YOUR OFFICIAL JOB TITLE? YES.
YOU MENTIONED ALSO THAT THERE WAS A CHANGE IN MANAGEMENT, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
DOES THAT, UH, MEAN THAT YOU ARE NEW, UH, TO THIS BUILDING? UM, I'M ACTUALLY NEW TO OWNERSHIP.
UH, WHEN IT CAME TO A CHANGE OF MANAGEMENT ON GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL, THAT WAS THE ACTUAL MANAGEMENT COMPANY.
WE FELT THE PRIOR MANAGEMENT COMPANY, UH, WAS FAILING IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES AND, UH, DECIDED TO HIRE A NEW MANAGEMENT COMPANY THAT WOULD BE A THIRD PARTY COMPANY.
DOES THIS MANAGEMENT COMPANY, UH, HAVE AN OFFICE IN THE, IN THE AREA, LIKE IN, IN THE ACTUAL RESIDENCE? THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE A OFFICE ON THE PROPERTY, BUT THEY DO OFFICE IN DALLAS-FORT WORTH.
SO IF SOMEONE HAS AN ISSUE, LIKE, UM, WHO DO THEY GO TO? THEY GO TO THE, THEY GO TO THE OFFICE ON THE PROPERTY.
SO THE PRO THERE IS A PROPERTY MANAGER, THERE'S AN ASSISTANT MANAGER, AND MS. DEAN, THE LEASING AGENT, PLUS MAINTENANCE TEAM.
[02:45:01]
ON SITE WHERE IF ANY RESIDENTS HAVE ANY TYPE OF ISSUES, THEY DO HAVE ACCESS TO PEOPLE.YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE EMPLOYEES OF THE BUILDING ARE BASICALLY SECURITIES DURING THE DAY SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ACTUAL SECURITIES.
IS THAT CORRECT? I DON'T WANNA CALL THEM SECURITY.
UM, BUT THEY ARE ON THE PROPERTY WALKING, THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE IS OUT ON SITE.
UM, THEY ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO CALL THE OFFICERS, UH, THE MPO OFFICERS IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES.
SO IF THEY'RE NOT SECURITY, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SECURITY ON THIS BUILDING FROM 6:00 AM TO 6:00 PM THAT'S INCORRECT.
WE HAVE THE, UH, CAMERAS, THE CAMERA SYSTEM.
YOU HAVE A CAMERA SYSTEM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ANYONE ON SITE SECURING THE PROPERTY.
WHEN IT COMES TO A, A, UH, PATROL COMPANY, A CONTRACTED SECURITY COMPANY? NO, WE DO NOT.
UH, AND YEAH, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE.
UH, WE WILL NOW DO ONE MORE ROUND, UH, FROM THE BOARD.
IF THEY HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THAT MAY HAVE COME UP DURING THIS TIME.
UH, WE, YOU WILL BE RECOGNIZED FOR AN ADDITIONAL THREE MINUTES.
WE'LL GO TWO MINUTES, WE'LL GO KIND OF QUICKLY.
AND THAT'S, UM, THE NAME OF THE, THE NEW PROPERTY MANAGER COMPANY YOU GUYS HIRED? MM-HMM.
YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE NAME OF IT? YES, YES.
UM, MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR, UM, THEIR ATTORNEY, MR. KORA? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
ONE QUICK ONE, MS. BAIN SIMON.
UM, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.
UM, IT WAS MENTIONED THAT YOUR COMPANY PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY IN FEBRUARY OF 22.
IS THAT CORRECT? HAS IT BEEN UNDER YOUR PURVIEW THAT ENTIRE TIME? NO, I JUST STARTED WITH THE COMPANY IN, UH, LATE AUGUST LAST YEAR, 2023.
WAS, WAS THERE A PERSON IN, UH, SIMILAR POSITION TO YOURSELF WHO HAD RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE OWNERSHIP PRIOR TO YOUR JOINING? THAT WOULD BE THE THIRD PARTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY.
THE PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT COMPANY WAS PRIVATE PROVINCE REAL ESTATE OUT OF ATLANTA, AND THERE WAS A REGIONAL MANAGER THAT, UH, HER RESPONSIBILITIES WERE TO COME OUT ONCE A MONTH.
THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
MR. CLICK YES, I JUST HAVE A, JUST A FEW FOLLOW UP.
UM, HOW OFTEN IS THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY ITSELF ON SITE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, TROUBLE ITEMS, TROUBLE SPOTS? WELL, THERE IS, UM, THERE IS ONSITE MANAGEMENT, AND SO THEY SEE THAT DAILY.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY AND THE REGIONAL PROPERTY MANAGER, WHICH WOULD BE THE PROPERTY MANAGER SUPERVISOR, UM, HE'S OUT THERE EVERY WEEK.
SO SOME IN FRONT OF THE MANAGEMENT COMPANIES THERE EVERY WEEK? CORRECT.
UM, YOU, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE LESS CAMERAS THAN THERE ARE BUILDINGS.
ARE THERE THERE BLIND SPOTS? UM, NO.
FROM THE, THE CAMERAS CAN'T SEE.
NO, THE CAMERA IS THE WAY THE, THE CERTAIN TYPE OF CAMERAS THAT THEY INSTALL COVER ALL, ANY AND ALL BLIND SPOTS.
ARE THE CAMERAS MONITORED 24 7? NO, THEY ARE NOT.
THEY'RE MON THEY'RE LIVE MONITORED FROM 10:00 PM TO 6:00 AM BUT THEY'RE CONSTANTLY RUNNING AND BEING RECORDED.
SO IF THERE IS AN, AN INCIDENT THAT MAY ARISE, UH, WE ARE ABLE TO CAPTURE THAT RECORDING.
SO, SO LIKE DURING THE DAYTIME, THERE'S NO ACTUAL SECURITY GUARDS, THERE'S NO ONE MONITORING THE CAMERAS DURING THE DAYTIME? THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO LIVE MONITORING.
SO YOU HAVE A 12 HOUR PERIOD WHERE THERE'S NEITHER SECURITY NOR CAMERA MONITORING? THAT IS CORRECT.
[02:50:01]
ALL RIGHT.I, I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
UM, A AS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OWNER, WOULD YOU CONSIDER SOMEONE THAT YOU'VE DATED TO BE FAMILY? NO.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER SOMEONE THAT YOU HAVE GONE OUT ON A DATE WITH TO BE FAMILY? DEPENDS ON HOW LONG I WAS DATING THE PERSON.
HOW MANY DATES WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO CONSIDER SOMEONE FAMILY? IF WE BECAME SERIOUS IN A MONTH AND I MET AND I MET THAT PERSON'S FAMILY, I'D CONSIDER THAT FAMILY.
UM, UH, LET'S SAY YOU GET, UH, PULLED, YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE TOY.
YOU SAID YOU LIVE IN DALLAS, RIGHT? YES.
SO YOU GO DOWN THE TOY, YOU GOING ABOUT 80 MILES AN HOUR.
'CAUSE WHO DOESN'T? AND YOU GET PULLED OVER BY THAT TROOPER AND HE'S IN A GOOD MOOD THAT DAY.
UM, SO HE LET YOU OFF WITH A WARNING.
WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU HAD STILL VIOLATED THE LAW BY SPEEDING? YES.
UM, MS. BANKS EK, UH, KIND OF ALONG SIMILAR LINES, IF THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OR SOME OF THESE CRIMES STEM FROM PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, UH, WHAT HAS THE PROPERTY DONE TO ADDRESS WHAT IT CAN IF, IF ANYTHING? SO ANY TYPE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OF THAT TYPE? UM, THEY ARE GIVEN A VIOLATION AND IF IT IS EXTREMELY VIOLENT, UH, YOU KNOW, A WEAPON OF SOME TYPE, UM, THEY ARE GIVEN A 24 HOUR NOTICE TO VACATE.
IF THEY DO NOT LEAVE THE PROPERTY, THEN WE HAVE TO FILE AN EVICTION THROUGH THE COUNTY.
SO CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT THE SEXUAL ASSAULT WITH AN OBJECT THAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 15TH, 2023, THEY WERE GIVEN AN EVICTION? I CAN'T CONFIRM THAT.
WHAT ABOUT THE AGGRAVATED ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON THAT HAPPENED IN SEPTEMBER, UH, 24TH OF 2022? I CAN'T CONFIRM THAT.
I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PROPERTY RECORDS.
EITHER THAT OR, UM, MS. DEAN MIGHT KNOW.
BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE DISMISSING SOME OF THESE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES BECAUSE THERE EXISTS THIS RELATIONSHIP THAT THE PROPERTY IS NO CONTROL OVER.
UM, AND THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE A PROCESS IN PLACE, IS WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US, THAT THEN THEY'LL GET EVICTED, BUT YOU CAN'T CONFIRM THAT THEY HAVE IN FACT BEEN THAT THAT HAS BEEN FOLLOWED THROUGH BY THE PROPERTY.
I CAN'T CONFIRM THAT BECAUSE I'M NOT ON THE SITE TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THOSE RESIDENTS STILL LIVE THERE OR NOT, I'S SOMETHING BECAUSE I DON'T DIRECTLY MANAGE THE PROPERTY.
UM, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I'D HAVE TO FIND OUT FROM THE THIRD PARTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY.
BUT WHEN THERE'S ISSUES INVOLVING A FAMILY DISPUTE, YOUR LINE OF, UH, I GUESS THE WAY THAT YOU HANDLE IT IS INTERNAL AND YOU GIVE THOSE TENANTS AN EVICTION NOTICE.
UH, THE REQUIREMENT OF THE LEASE IS IF THERE IS ANY TYPE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, A VIOLATION IS GIVEN ALONG WITH A 24 HOUR NOTICE TO VACATE.
IF THEY'RE NOT VACATED, UH, IT HAS BEEN FILED WITH THE COUNTY FOR AN EVICTION.
AND THEN BASED ON THESE 13 CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES OR, UH, WELL, THERE'S BEEN MORE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THESE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORTH AS AVAILABLE CRIMES.
UM, WOULD YOU LIVE ON THIS PROPERTY? YES, ACTUALLY I WOULD.
WE WILL, UM, NOW MOVE TO THE CITY'S PRESENTATION.
UH, THE CITY MAY NOW BEGIN IT.
UH, WELL, UM, BEFORE WE DO THAT, COULD WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST
[02:55:01]
THE BOARD TO VOTE ON MAYBE A FIVE TO 10 MINUTE BATHROOM BREAK OR, UH, APPARENTLY WE DON'T NEED TO VOTE.UM, WE WILL ALLOW FOR A 10 MINUTE BREAK AND WHEN, WHEN WE COME BACK, UM, WE'LL HAVE YOU PRESENT.
SO WE ARE AJOUR FOR A QUICK BATHROOM BREAK AT 11:50 AM AND WE WILL, UM, RESTART AT NOON ON THE DOCK RECESS.
IT IS NOW 1201 AND WE WILL RESUME WITH OUR HEARING.
UM, THE CITY MAY NOW BEGIN ITS PRESENTATION.
AND MR. HERNANDEZ, I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT 20, 60 MINUTES LEFT OUT OF YOUR 30.
CAN EVERYONE HEAR ME WITHOUT AN ECHO? OKAY.
UH, CITY WILL CALL ITS FIRST WITNESS, UH, DETECTIVE SONYA HAYNES.
UH, DETECTIVE HAYNES, COULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD PLEASE? SONYA.
AND WHAT'S YOUR CURRENT OCCUPATION? DETECTIVE FROM DALLAS POLICE.
AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED WITH THE, UH, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT? 15 YEARS.
AND, UM, WHAT OTHER POSITIONS HAVE YOU HELD WITHIN DPD, UH, OUTSIDE YOUR CURRENT ROLE? I'M SORRY.
I HAVE WORK IN PATROL, I WORK AS A FIELD TRAINING OFFICER.
MR. MR. HERNANDEZ, DETECTIVE WITH THE NUISANCE STATEMENT TEAM.
WELL, MR. HERNANDEZ, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT, UM, MAY I ASK DETECTIVE ES TO PLEASE SPEAK INTO THE MIC? IT'S DIFFICULT TO HEAR ON THIS END.
DETECTIVE HAY, CAN YOU COME
COULD YOU JUST SPEAK MORE INTO THE MICROPHONE WHEN YOU ANSWER QUESTIONS? OKAY.
I DON'T WHERE IT IS ON MY COMPUTER.
PROBABLY GONNA GET FEEDBACK IF I UNMUTE MYSELF.
SO WHAT YOU CAN DO IS YEAH, LIKE YOU'LL UNMUTE YOURSELF AND I'LL MUTE MY MICROPHONE SO THAT WAY THEY DON'T GET THE ECHO.
UM, SO TURNING NOW TO, AND PLEASE LET US KNOW IF WE HAVE, IS IT ON MUTE? OKAY.
UM, TURNING NOW TO THE NOTICE LETTER AND ABATES, UM, AND THE PROPERTY AT ISSUE.
DOES NUISANCE ABATEMENT TEAM CURRENTLY HAVE A CASE ON THIS PROPERTY AT 86 13 HOLD? YES.
HOW DID A CASE ON THIS PROPERTY COME ABOUT? CPD IS VERY, UH, DATA DRIVEN.
SO WHEN THE SEVERAL, UH, AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS WITH A DEADLY WEAPON AND THE AGGRAVATED ROBBERS WERE TAKING PLACE ON THE PROPERTY, THE CHAIN OF COMMAND AT THE SOUTH CENTRAL PATROL STATION BROUGHT IT TO THE NUIS ABATEMENT, UH, UNIT ATTENTION.
AND THEN I BEGAN MY INVESTIGATION ON IT.
MR. HERNANDEZ, I THINK YOU'RE MUTED.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? NOW? YES.
BUT WE DID NOT HEAR THE QUESTION IF, UH, ANY WAS ASKED BY MR. HERNANDEZ RIGHT NOW.
UH, I CAN RE-ASK THE QUESTION.
SO HOW DID A CASE ON THIS PROPERTY COME ABOUT? YES, PPD IS VERY, UH, DATA DRIVEN.
SO WHEN A COUPLE, UH, AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS WITH DEADLY WEAPONS STARTED HAPPENING ON THE PROPERTY AS WELL AS AGGRAVATED ROBBERIES, THE SOUTH CENTRAL, UH, CHAIN OF COMMAND BROUGHT IT TO THE NUISANCE ABATEMENT UNIT ATTENTION, AND THEN I BEGAN MY INVESTIGATION.
AND HOW DOES THE NUISANCE STATEMENT TEAM DETERMINE WHETHER A PROPERTY PRELIMINARILY QUALIFIES AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY? YES, I USE SEVERAL DIFFERENT, UH, CPD DATA, UH, DATABASES TO RUN THE NUMBERS FOR THE PROPERTY, UH, FOR THE PAST 365 DAYS FOR THE HCP OFFENSES ON THE PROPERTY TO SEE WHAT ALL HAS OCCURRED.
ONCE THE OFFENSES ARE PULLED UP FOR THE PROPERTY, THEN I GO THROUGH THE, EACH REPORT, READ IT TO SEE IF THE OFFENSE QUALIFIES FOR A HCP OFFENSE, AVAILABLE OFFENSE.
AND THEN IF IT DOES, THEN IT WILL BE COUNTED AS THE AVAILABLE OFFENSE.
AND FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT'S, UH, A FAMILY VIOLENCE OFFENSE
[03:00:01]
AS WHAT'S BEEN SPOKE ABOUT BEFORE, THEN THAT OFFENSE IS REMOVED FROM THE PROCESS.IT'S NO LONGER INCLUDED IF IT'S A FAMILY VIOLENCE OFFENSE AS WELL.
IT, IT ALSO GETS ROUTED TO THE FAMILY VIOLENCE UNIT TO BE INVESTIGATED AND IT WILL NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A AGGRAVATING ASSAULT.
IT WILL BE CLASSIFIED AS A FAMILY VIOLENCE.
SO IN THAT CASE, LIKE THE, THE SEXUAL ASSAULT WITH OBJECT, FOR INSTANCE, YOU WOULD'VE COMBED THROUGH THAT AND IN YOUR INVESTIGATION TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT TO INCLUDE THAT OFFENSE WITHIN THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OCCURRING ON THE PROPERTY? YES, BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT WILL MAKE IT STILL QUALIFY.
IF THE PEOPLE WERE IN A DATING RELATIONSHIP AND THEY'RE NO LONGER IN A DATING RELATIONSHIP AND HE KICKED THE DOOR IN AND COMMITTED THAT OFFENSE AGAINST HER, THEN IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN AGGRAVATED ASSAULT WITH.
DID FIVE OR MORE BEATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES OCCUR ON THE PROPERTY IN 365 DAYS BETWEEN AUGUST 29TH, 2022 AND AUGUST 29TH? 2023? YES.
AND CAN YOU GENERALLY DESCRIBE THE TYPES OF DEBATABLE CRIMES THAT HAVE OCCURRED AT THIS PROPERTY? YES, I CAN.
UH, DIFFERENT, UH, AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS AS I SPOKE OF BEFORE, WHERE FIREARMS WERE DISCHARGED FROM THE PROPERTY, UH, THAT WERE DEADLY CONDUCT, UH, THE SEXUAL ASSAULT THAT WAS SPOKE ABOUT, UH, ROBBERY OF THE INDIVIDUALS.
AND HOW MANY AAT CRIMINAL OFFENSES OCCURRED ON THIS PROPERTY IN THE 365 DAY PERIOD? UH, 13.
AND HAVE ADDITIONAL DEBATABLE CRIMES OCCURRED ON THIS PROPERTY SINCE THAT THE, THE LETTER HAS BEEN SENT OUT? YES, IT HAS.
FIVE ADDITIONAL ONES HAVE HAPPENED SINCE THEN, MINUS ONE WHERE A COMPLAINANT, WHICH WAS FAMILY VIOLENCE ON THAT ONE.
SO IT DOESN'T COUNT WHERE THAT COMPLAINANT WAS BEAT WITH A HAMEL BY THE SUSPECT.
AND DOES THE PROPERTY HAVE A HISTORY OF AAT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? YES.
AND IN THAT, I GUESS, HISTORY RETROSPECTIVE OR HISTORICAL ANALYSIS THAT YOU'VE DONE, HOW MANY, UH, AVAILABLE CRIMES OCCURRED DURING THAT PERIOD? UH, DURING THAT TIME IT WAS 12.
AND WHAT DATES, UH, DID THAT OCCUR? JUST ROUGHLY BETWEEN AUGUST OF 2020 AND AUGUST OF 2022.
AND, UH, GENERALLY HOW FREQUENTLY IS DPD REQUESTED TO BE PRESENT ON PROPERTY SINCE TIME THAT THEY ARE CALLED OR ANYTIME THAT A PROPERTY HAS, UH, HELD? IT IS KNOWN FOR LIKE HIGH CRIME.
SO IF THE PROPERTY HAS HIGH CRIME, WE WILL MARK OUT OUT THERE ON OUR OWN.
AND AS WELL FOR HIGH PRESENCE ON THE PROPERTY, EXTRA EXTRA PATROL IS WHAT WE LIKE TO CALL IT.
SO OVER THE TIMEFRAME ANNUAL WITH THIS PROPERTY, UH, WE'VE BEEN OUT THERE FROM AUGUST OF 2023 OF 2022 TO AUGUST, 2023 TO 2023 OVER 1700 TIMES.
AND, UH, PRIOR TO THE COURT MEETING, HAD YOU MADE CONTACT WITH SOMEONE AT THE PROPERTY? YES, I HAVE.
UH, AND, AND HOW, HOW EARLY ON DID YOU MAKE CONTACT WITH, UH, A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT OR SOMEONE IN CONTROL, UH, OF THE PROPERTY? I MADE A COUPLE OF VISITS TO THE PROPERTY PRIOR.
I WENT ONTO THE PROPERTY AS EARLY AS MARCH OF LAST YEAR.
AND THEN I WENT BACK AGAIN IN JULY AND I SPOKE WITH THE MANAGER THAT WAS ON PROPERTY AT THAT POINT, WHICH WAS MS. ROLAND.
AND CAN YOU BRIEFLY DESCRIBE WHAT THAT CONTACT WAS LIKE WITH MS. ROSLAND AND UM, UH, PROPERTY MANAGEMENT PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH? SURE.
UM, MYSELF, ALONG WITH CALLED OFFICER HAYNES, UM, CALLED OFFICER THE FIRE OFFICER, UM, FOR OUR TEAM AS WELL AS, UH, THE NPO SERGEANT AND ANOTHER NPO OFFICER.
WE ALL WENT TO THE PROPERTY JUST TO KIND OF MEET AND GREET WITH THEM TO KIND OF EXPLAIN TO THEM THAT THE, THE CRIME WAS SPIKING ON THE PROPERTY AND TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WORK WITH THEM TO SEE WHAT WE COULD DO TO, TO SEE WHAT THEY HAD IN PLACE TO KIND OF GET A FOOTHOLD ON THE CRIME.
AND AT THAT TIME, THE MANAGER EXPLAINED TO ME THAT IT WAS KIND OF HOLD TO GET KIND OF HARD TO GET A HOLD TO ANYBODY THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, WITH THE MANAGEMENT TEAM BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS OFF SITE AND LOCATED SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND THE MANAGER KIND OF JUST SHRUGGED IT
[03:05:01]
OFF AND SAID SHE WOULD GET BACK WITH ME ONCE SHE WAS ABLE TO CONTACT SOMEONE, BUT SHE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE TOO INTERESTED IN WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.I'D LIKE TO TURN YOUR ATTENTION TO THE OCTOBER 10TH, 2023 COURT MEETING.
TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, WHO WAS PRESENT AT THAT MEETING? UH, MYSELF, UM, ATTORNEY HERNANDEZ, UH, CODE OFFICER HAYES, UH, MS. LESLIE, AND THEN THE MANAGEMENT FOR THE TIME MS. ROSWELL.
AND WERE THE PROPERTY OWNERS ASKED TO PRESENT EVIDENCE OF REASONABLE MEASURES AT THAT MEETING? YES.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE AVAILABLE MEASURES THAT THE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP HAS, I GUESS, SINCE IMPLEMENTED.
BUT, UH, DETECTIVE HAYNES, YOU HAD, UM, LET'S TURN TO THE PROPERTY OWNER'S IMPLEMENTATION OF STED PRINCIPLES OR WHAT THEY CALL TED PRINCIPLES FOR CRIME PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN.
AND THOSE CRIMINAL, UM, ABATEMENT MEASURES.
THE FIRST YOU MADE A SERIES OF REASONABLE RECOMMENDATIONS RELATED TO SECURITY GUARDS IN YOUR FINAL DESIGNATION LETTER AT THE ACCORD MEETING.
DID THEY, THEY BEING THE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP, UM, DID THEY PRESENT ANY INFORMATION THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED SECURITY MEASURES PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023? NO, THEY DIDN'T.
AND TO SPEAK UP ON THE SECURITY MEASURES, WHEN I SPOKE WITH MS. ROSALIND ON THAT PRIOR VISIT THAT I WAS SPEAKING UPON, I ASKED HER ABOUT THE SECURITY FOR THE SITE AND SHE INFORMED ME THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE SECURITY FOR THAT SITE.
AND I ALSO ASKED ABOUT THE CAMERAS FOR THAT SITE.
AND SHE TOLD ME THAT THEY HAD THE CAMERAS ON THE LOCATION, BUT THEY WERE NOT, THAT NO ONE HAD ACCESS TO THE CAMERAS AND THAT THEY WERE CAMERAS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY THERE AND THAT THEY WERE NOT ACTIVE.
AND W AND WE'LL, WE'LL KIND OF SWING AROUND EVENTUALLY TO THE CAMERA, UH, TO THE CAMERAS.
SO AT, AT THE TIME OF THE COURT MEETING, UM, TO YOUR AWARENESS BA BASED ON WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY TESTIFIED TO, DID THE PROPERTY OWNER HAVE REASONABLE SECURITY MEASURES IN PLACE LIKE A CONSISTENT SECURITY PRESENCE BY SECURITY GUARDS AT THE PROPERTY DURING THE TIMES FOR KNOWN INCREASED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? NO.
AND ONCE THEY, DID THEY HAVE THE SECURITY GUARDS IN PLACE AFTER YOU SENT OUT THAT, THAT THE FIRST WHAT WE WOULD CALL THE HCP LETTER BACK IN SEPTEMBER 13TH? LIKE AFTER THE FACT? NO, NOT TO
BUT YOU'VE SINCE VISITED, UM, THE, THE SITE AND YOU'VE SEEN SECURITY GUARDS? WELL, WELL AFTER SEPTEMBER 13TH, YES.
UH, ROUGHLY HOW MANY MONTHS AFTER THAT WAS TWO WEEKS AGO.
I DID A LOCK IN THE INSPECTION OF THE PROPERTY AND WELL, A WEEK AGO, AND I SAW THE SECURITY GUARDS OUT THERE.
AND WHAT, UM, WHAT IS THE, WHY IS THIS MEASURE IMPORTANT FOR DPD OR A PROPERTY OWNER? IF YOU HAVE SECURITY ON THE PROPERTY, THEN IT KIND OF SENDS A MESSAGE NOW THAT THE PROPERTY IS CARED FOR, IT IS MAINTAINED THAT THE CRIME WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON THE PROPERTY.
IF YOU HAVE THE PROPER WORKING, UH, FUNCTIONING OF THE GATES AND THE SECURITY BOOTH BEING UTILIZED BY THE GUARDS, THEN IF I'M A CRIMINAL COMING TO THE PROPERTY, I DON'T WANNA BE IDENTIFIED.
SO I'M NOT GONNA WANNA TAKE THE TIME TO STILL CONTINUE ONTO THAT PROPERTY 'CAUSE I'M NOT GONNA WANNA STOP AND TALK TO THE SECURITY OR TAKE THE CHANCE OF MY LICENSE PLATES BEING TAKEN DOWN.
AND HOW, TO YOUR AWARENESS, HOW MANY SECURITY GUARDS DO THEY HAVE AT THE PROPERTY? I SAW TWO.
AND HOW MANY DID YOU REQUEST IN YOUR FINAL HCP DESIGNATION LETTER? FOUR.
WHY DO YOU REQUEST THAT MANY? FOR THE SAFETY OF THE OFFICERS? BECAUSE THE PROPERTY HAD A LOT OF CRIME GOING ON.
AND WITH ALL THE ROBBERIES AND EVERYTHING AND ALL THE SHOOTINGS GOING ON, IF THEY'RE GONNA UTILIZE, 'CAUSE THEY, THEY SPOKE TO ME ABOUT UTILIZING ONE SECURITY GUARD IN THE SHACK AND THE, THE SECURITY BOOTH.
SO IF YOU'RE GONNA UTILIZE ONE GUARD THERE, THAT LEAVES THE OTHER SECURITY GUARD BY HIMSELF TO WALK THE PROPERTY OR TO DO WHATEVER IF HE'S CALLED OUT ON SOMETHING BY ONE OF THE TENANTS.
SO YOU AT LEAST NEED ANOTHER PERSON WITH YOU TO BE ABLE TO WALK THAT PROPERTY AND SECURE THAT PROPERTY, UH, PROPERLY WITHOUT GETTING HURT.
AND, UM, JUST KIND OF BRIEFLY, LET'S, LET'S MOVE ON TO CONTROLLED ACCESS.
UH, YOU HAD MADE RE REASONABLE RECOMMENDATIONS RELATED TO CONTROLLED ACCESS, CORRECT?
[03:10:01]
YES.AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE SAY, FUNCTIONING GATE? YES.
AND AT THE ACCORD MEETING, DID THEY PRESENT ANY INFORMATION THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED, UH, SECURITY MEASURES REGARDING THAT KIND OF CONTROLLED ACCESS? NO.
AND WHEN YOU VISITED THE PROPERTY BACK IN MARCH OF 2023 IN JUNE OR JULY OF 2023, UM, WERE THE GATES, THE SECURITY GATES OPEN? YES, THEY WERE.
AND THOSE GATES THAT ARE ON THE, THE PICTURES IN THE POWERPOINT, THEY ARE STILL, THEY WERE DOWN AND THEY'RE STILL DOWN NOW.
AND AS OF, UH, AS OF THIS PAST MONDAY ON THE 29TH, THEY WERE STILL DOWN.
UM, AND WOULD HA HAS SECURITY EVER BEEN, UH, IN THE, THAT GUARD BOOTH AT THE SECURITY GATE AS WELL THAT WE KIND OF SEE HERE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE? NO, I'VE NEVER WITNESSED THEM IN THE BOOTH.
AND THEN AS FAR AS, UH, SECURING THE FENCES, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE CONTROLLED ACCESS, WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
BECAUSE IF THE FENCE ARE SECURE WITH THE REPORTS AND EVERYTHING THAT THEY WERE SPEAKING ON PRIOR, AND WITH THAT OPEN FIELD, EVERYONE, IF YOU READ IT WITH SOME OF THE REPORTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED, THE PEOPLE ARE COMING ON THE PROPERTY AND OFF OF THE PROPERTY.
'CAUSE IN SOME OF THE OFFENSE REPORTS, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING ON THE PROPERTY WHO STATE THAT THEY ARE WALKING FROM THEIR HOUSE TO GO VISIT PEOPLE AT THE PROVIDENCE DEPARTMENTS, WHICH ARE NEXT DOOR.
AND THEY GET INTO AN ALTERCATION WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THAT FIELD THAT ARE WAITING TO ROB PEOPLE OR HIDING OUT.
IF THOSE GATES ARE SECURED AND UP, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE THAT OPEN ACCESS TO GO BACK AND FORTH IT, THE PROPERTY WOULD BE MORE CONTROLLED.
AND SO AT THE TIME OF THE ACCORD MEETING, WERE THE CONTROLLED ACCESS MEASURES IN PLACE LIKE THE CONTROLLED VEHICLE OR PEDESTRIAN GATES, UH, TO CONTROL INGRESS AND EGRESS THROUGH THE FENCING? OR WERE THOSE IMPLEMENTED OR EVIDENCE PRESENTED OF THAT? NO.
UM, NEXT, LET'S, LET'S KIND OF MOVE ON TO PARKING.
UM, BECAUSE IT, IT DID PREVIOUSLY COME UP, YOU HAD MADE SOME REASONABLE RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING PARKING, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
AND AT THE ACCORD MEETING, DID THEY PRESENT ANY INFORMATION THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED THOSE SECURITY MEASURES REGARDING LIKE PARKING PERMITS OR HAVING AN ACTIVE TOWING COMPANY PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023? NO, THEY DIDN'T.
AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DO THEY, DO THEY NOW HAVE AN ACTIVE TOWING COMPANY ENGAGED WITH THE PROPERTY OR WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? WELL, AFTER OUR INSPECTION THAT WE HAD WITH THEM ON THE 24TH OF JANUARY MM-HMM.
SO THEY TOLD ME I COULD COME BACK THE NEXT DAY TO SEE THE LIVE FEED.
SO ON THE NEXT DAY I WENT BACK OUT TO, UM, TRY TO SEE THAT AND I ALSO ASKED THEM ABOUT, UH, IF THEY HAD A TOWING SERVICE IN PLACE.
SO WHEN I WENT BACK TO THE PROPERTY, ONLY THE ASSISTANT MANAGER WAS THERE AT THE LOCATION AND SHE EXPLAINED TO ME THAT SHE STILL DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE CAMERAS AND THAT THE CAMERAS WERE NOT LIVE AT THAT POINT, AND THAT EVERYONE WAS GONE ON A, UH, EMPLOYEE RETREAT TO LAS VEGAS AND THAT THEY WOULD MAKE THE CAMERAS LIVE ONCE THEY RETURNED ON THAT MONDAY FOR HER.
AND AT THAT TIME SHE GAVE ME A FLYER FOR THE TOWING, AND ON THE FLYER AT THE TOP OF IT, IT HAD THE DATE ON OF JANUARY THE 18TH OF WHEN THEY STARTED PASSING THE FLYERS OUT TO EVERYONE.
SO THAT'S WHEN THEY STARTED TRYING TO, I GUESS, MAKE THE RESIDENTS AWARE THAT THEY WERE GONNA IMPLEMENT THE TOWING SERVICE AND THAT SHE ALSO TOLD ME THAT THEY HAVE TO GIVE THE, THE TENANTS TIME.
THEY CAN'T JUST START TOWING THEIR CARS, SO THEY HAVE TO GIVE THEM A 30 DAY NOTICE BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN START IMPLEMENTING THE TOWING, IS WHAT I WAS TOLD ON THAT DAY.
AND, AND SO, UM, SO ESSENTIALLY THEY IMPLEMENTED IT RECENTLY AND THEN THERE'S PLUS OF PLUS 30 DAY NOTICE PERIOD, SO TO SPEAK? YES, TO MY UNDERSTANDING.
AND THAT WAS IMPLEMENTED IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR? YES, ON THE 18TH.
AND YOU TOUCHED ON, ON CAMERA.
SO I GUESS WE'LL, WE'LL KINDA MOVE ON TO CAMERAS.
UM, AT THE TIME OF THE ACCORD MEETING AND PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023, DID THEY PRESENT, UH, DID OWNERSHIP PRESENT REASONABLE, UH, EVIDENCE OR EVIDENCE OF REASONABLE SURVEILLANCE, UH, MEASURES IN PLACE LIKE WORKING OPERABLE CAMERA? NO.
AND DO YOU RECALL, TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, UH, WHAT THEY, THEY HAD NOTED ABOUT THE CAMERA SYSTEMS AT THAT TIME, AT THE ACCORD MEETING ON OCTOBER 10TH?
[03:15:02]
NO, I DON'T.AND COULD YOU TELL US JUST A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, BRIEFLY ABOUT THE CAMERA SITUATION ON THE PROPERTY, UH, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE? UH, YES.
WHEN WE WENT OUT TO THE LOCATION ON THE 24TH, UH, THEY TOLD ME THAT THE CAMERAS HAD BEEN INSTALLED AND THAT THEY WERE WORKING ON GETTING THE LIVE FEED, BUT THEY TOLD ME THAT THE EMPLOYEES HAD NOT BEEN TRAINED ON THE CAMERAS YET AND THAT THEY WOULD HAVE, THEY COULD HAVE EVERYBODY ON THE LIVE FEED BY THE NEXT DAY AND THAT THEY WOULD HAVE EVERYBODY TRAINED BY THE NEXT DAY.
AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY I RETURNED TO THE PROPERTY TO TRY TO GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE IF THEY HAD CORRECTED THE, THE SITUATION WITH GETTING EVERYONE TRAINED AND GETTING THE LIVE FEED UP AND RUNNING.
AND I EVEN WENT AS FAR AS SPEAKING WITH, UM, ERIC ON, FROM STEP MONITORING THAT WAS DOING THE MONITORING SERVICE FOR THEM.
BUT HE EXPLAINED THAT THEY WEREN'T ON LIVE FEED YET EITHER.
AND SO, AND THEN WHEN I WENT BACK OUT TO THE PROPERTY ON THE 29TH, I WITNESSED THE STEP MONITORING TRUCK OUT THERE.
SO I GUESS THEY WERE OUT THERE INSTALLING IT ON THAT DAY ON THE 29TH, MAKING IT LIVE OF THIS MONTH.
AND SO, AND I'M SORRY, WE ALSO HAVE DPD ALSO HAS THEIR OWN CAMERA TRAILER ON THE PROPERTY AS WELL.
AND SO AT THE TIME OF THE AGREED ON SITE INSPECTION, UH, THIS PAST JANUARY 24TH, 2024, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THEY DID PRESENT, LIKE WELL AFTER SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023, THAT THEY HAD CAMERAS ON SITE, BUT THAT THEY COULD NOT PROVE THE LIVE FEED WAS ACTIVE.
AND THEN YOU HAD, YOU'D GONE OUT THERE, UH, AT ANOTHER POINT IN TIME AND YOU HAD SEEN THE SECURITY VAN, I GUESS, WORKING ON THE, THE CAMERAS AT A LATER DATE? THAT WAS AFTER, UM, OUR MEETING WITH THEM AND AFTER THEY HAD TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE GONNA BE ABLE TO MAKE IT LIVE, THAT WAS ON THE 29TH OF THIS MONTH.
AND, UH, LET'S MOVE ON TO LIGHTING.
UM, UNLESS THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED TO SAY ABOUT THE SECURITY CAMERAS FOR THE BOARD'S ATTENTION.
OH, THERE'S ONE MORE THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD FOR A PROPERTY OF THAT SIZE, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY, THEY SHOULD PROBABLY LOOK INTO ADDING MORE CAMERAS.
ONE INCIDENT THAT TOOK PLACE, THE LAST INCIDENT ON THE 17TH, WHEN I LOOKED AT THE MAP THAT THEY GAVE ME THE DIAGRAM OF THE PROPERTY, THERE WAS NO CAMERAS SHOWING FOR THAT BUILDING.
SO EVEN IF THEY WOULD'VE HAD THEIR LIVE FEED UP, IT, IT WOULD, IT WOULD'VE BEEN BENEFICIAL TO THEM TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A CAMERA THERE WHERE THEY COULD'VE SEEN THE INCIDENT THAT SAW.
AND AS FAR AS THE LIGHTING IS CONCERNED, UM, AT THE TIME OF THE ACCORD MEETING O ON OCTOBER 10TH, DID, TO BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, DID PROPERTY OWNERSHIP PRESENT ANY EVIDENCE OF REASONABLE MEASURES RELATED TO THE LIGHTING? NO.
AND, UM, BUT IS, IS AWARE ON THE JANUARY 24TH, 2020 FOURTH INSPECTION THAT THEY HAD SINCE, I GUESS, PRESENTED A, A CONTRACT TO UPDATE LIGHTING OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT? YES.
UH, SO WOULD IT BE FAIR TO CHARACTERIZE THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT? UM, YES.
I WENT OUT ON A LIGHTING INSPECTION.
UM, IF I MAY SHARE THE PICTURES FROM MY SCREEN FROM THE LIGHTING INSPECTION, IF THAT'S OKAY.
MR. HERNANDEZ, JUST A POINT OF ORDER.
YOU DO HAVE ABOUT, YOU DO HAVE FIVE MORE MINUTES.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE IT, BUT THOSE ARE LIKE DARK AREAS.
EVERYTHING WAS VERY DARK, KINDA IN CERTAIN AREAS.
IT WAS DARK NEAR THE FENCING AREA WHERE EVERYTHING IS TORN DOWN.
THEY HAD THE LED LIGHTING ON SOME BUILDINGS, BUT FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE PART IT WAS DARK AND SOME THINGS NEED TO BE LIT UP, BUT THEY HAD SOME LIGHTING, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT ON THE LIGHTING.
IT WAS DARK IN A LOT OF SPOTS.
AND WE'VE, WE'VE TOUCHED UPON GATES AND FENCING AND, UM, AND IT, IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT AT THE TIME OF THE ACCORD MEETING, THEY DIDN'T PRESENT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE REGARDING THE STATE OF AFFAIRS WITH DEFENSE AND THE GATES, IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? OKAY.
AND LASTLY, LIKE LEASING BEST PRACTICES, UM, YOU MADE SOME, SOME RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING THIS, UM, AT THE TIME OF
[03:20:01]
THE COURT MEETING MEETING, WELL, WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE LEASING PRACTICES AND DID THEY MAKE, UH, A PRESENTATION? DID THEY PRESENT REASONABLE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE IMPLEMENTING GOOD LEASING PRACTICES? UM, WHEN I SPOKE TO THE FIRST MANAGER, UH, THAT WAS ON THE PROPERTY, UH, SHE COULDN'T REALLY, SHE DIDN'T REALLY PROVIDE ANYTHING AS FAR AS THE PRACTICES THAT THEY HAD IN PLACE.AND WHEN I SPOKE WITH THE ASSISTANT MANAGER THE OTHER DAY, SHE DID TELL ME THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT, UH, CHECKING, DOING A SPOT CHECK ON THE UNITS, BUT THEY HADN'T DONE ONE SINCE SHE'D BEEN THERE.
AND THAT WHEN THEY DO IT, THEY PLAN ON DOING LIKE 10 UNITS AT A TIME.
BUT THAT, UM, THEY HADN'T IMPLEMENTED ONE YET SINCE SHE HAD BEEN AT THE PROPERTY.
AND THE OTHER MANAGER, OF COURSE IS SHE'S NO LONGER WITH THE PROPERTY.
AND, UH, JUST BECAUSE WE, WE HAVE A LITTLE OVER A MINUTE LEFT, UM, IS, IS IT REQUIRED IN THE CODE TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE THAT A VICTIM LIVE ON THE PROPERTY FOR AN DEBATABLE OFFENSE TO COUNT? NO.
AND BASED ON YOUR ANALYSIS OF THE AVAILABLE OFFENSE IS DURING THE 365 DAY HCP PERIOD, BETWEEN AUGUST 29TH, 2022, IN AUGUST 29TH, 2023, DID FIVE DEBATABLE CRIMINAL OFFENSES OCCUR ON THIS PROPERTY? YES.
AND HOW MANY WERE, WAS THAT OKAY.
AND, UM, THE, I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
GIVE TWO MORE MINUTES NEXT, BUT IF YOU HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, THEN WE WILL NOW MOVE, UM, TO MR. SINGAPORE.
YOU HAVE 10 ADDITIONAL MINUTES IF YOU'D LIKE TO USE THEM, UM, TO QUESTION THE WITNESS AT THIS TIME.
THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE YOUR CLOSING TIME.
AND MAY I REQUEST THE, UH, THE SHERIFF SCREEN BE TURNED OFF PLEASE? YES.
THANK YOU DETECTIVE HAYNES, HOW YOU DOING? GOOD.
UM, I PROMISE TO BE QUICK ABOUT THIS.
UH, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, THE HISTORICAL ANALYSIS THAT YOU DID AS PART OF THIS HCP NOTICE, UM, YOU WOULD AGREE THAT OF THE HISTORICAL CRIMES LISTED ONLY ONE OCCURRED DURING THE CURRENT OWNERSHIP'S TENURE, CORRECT? THAT BEING AFTER FEBRUARY OF 2022? I'M NOT SURE WHEN THE SHEETS OF ALL, WELL, YOU HEARD TESTIMONY EARLIER THAT THIS CURRENT GROUP PURCHASED THE PROPERTY IN FEBRUARY OF 2022 AND THE HISTORICAL CRIMES WRITTEN IN THE HCP NOTICE OF SEPTEMBER ONLY LIST ONE HISTORICAL CRIME OCCURRING OR AMENABLE OFFENSE OCCURRING DURING CURRENT OWNERSHIP, CORRECT? YES.
NOW, YOU ALSO SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ROSALYN, THE PREVIOUS PROPERTY MANAGER, AND YOU WOULD AGREE SHE'S NO LONGER AT THE PROPERTY, CORRECT? YES.
AND SHE WAS THE PROPERTY MANAGER DURING THIS RELEVANT TIME PERIOD OF SEPTEMBER 23, I'M SORRY, SEPTEMBER OF 2022 TO AUGUST OF 23, ISN'T THAT RIGHT? UM, NO.
I TOLD, I WAS TOLD SHE WAS THERE ALL THE WAY UP TILL NOVEMBER.
NOW YOU WERE INFORMED, WERE YOU NOT BY MS. BAES, UH, EK AS TO WHY ROSALYN WAS REMOVED AND THAT PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY WAS REMOVED FROM THEIR DUTIES AT THIS APARTMENT COMPLEX.
ISN'T THAT RIGHT? OUR FULL REMOVAL WASN'T DISCLOSED TO ME.
YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE AN EMAIL FROM MS. BAIN EK DISCUSSING THE FACT THAT ROSALYN AND THE PREVIOUS PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY WERE STEALING MONEY FROM THE PROPERTY? YOU DIDN'T GET THAT? YES, I KNOW THAT SHE WAS REMOVED FOR STEALING, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY ALL THAT SHE WAS REMOVED, SIR.
AND DID YOU GET INFORMATION ABOUT HOW SHE WASN'T FOLLOWING MANAGEMENT AND O OWNER'S PROTOCOL AS PART OF THE REASON FOR HER REMOVAL? I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT? 'CAUSE WE CAN'T HEAR YOU HONESTLY.
DID YOU NOT, UM, YOU WOULD AGREE YOU RECEIVED IN THAT SAME EMAIL INFORMATION THAT SHE WAS NOT FOLLOWING MANAGEMENT AND OWNERSHIP PROTOCOL WITH RESPECT TO OPERATIONS OF THE PROPERTY AND WAS THUS REMOVED, CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT SINCE TIPTON OR THE NEW MANAGEMENT COMPANY HAS COME INTO PLACE, WHICH WOULD BE FROM THE ACCORD MEETING OR THE NOTICE TIME PERIOD FORWARD, THERE HAS BEEN SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS IN THE SECURITY MEASURES IMPLEMENTED AT THE PROPERTY? RIGHT WHEN I WAS ON THE PROPERTY TO OBSERVE THE SECURITY, THE SECURITY WAS AT THE FRONT GATE.
NO ONE WAS PATROLLING THE PROPERTY.
AND WHEN I CAME ONTO THE PROPERTY, I WAS THERE FOR 15 MINUTES
[03:25:01]
AND WHEN I CAME BACK, YOUR SECURITY WAS STILL AT THE FRONT GATE.THEY HAD NOT MOVED FROM THAT SPOT.
SO NO, I CANNOT SAY THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT SECURITY MEASURES GENERALLY.
DETECTIVE HAYNES, WITH RESPECT TO BOTH THE CAMERA SYSTEM, THE ONSITE PRESENCE OF FOOT PATROL AND OTHER MEASURES WHEN COMPARED TO WHEN ROSALYN WAS OPERATING THE PROPERTY, I CANNOT SPEAK TO THE CAMERA SYSTEM EITHER 'CAUSE I'M STILL YET TO VERIFY THAT THE CAMERA SYSTEM IS LIVE.
WHEN I WENT BACK TO THE LOCATION TO VERIFY THAT IT WAS LIVE, IT WAS NOT.
LET ME ASK YOU THIS, DETECTIVE HAYNES, AND I WANNA UNDERSTAND THIS TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR.
ULTIMATELY, DPD GETS STATISTICS OF CRIMES THAT ARE REPORTED AND THEN YOU REVIEW THE INCIDENT REPORTS TO DETERMINE IF THEY'RE AAT OFFENSES.
IS THAT RIGHT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
NOW, INCIDENT NUMBER 1 9 0 0 5 5, I'M SORRY, 0 0 8 6 6 0, WHERE THE REPORTING OFFICER WRITES IN THE NOTES QUOTE, THE ARREST WAS TO PREVENT FURTHER ACTS OF FAMILY VIOLENCE.
WHY IS THAT NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD EXCLUDE IT? AS YOU NOTED, AS AN ACT OF FAMILY VIOLENCE AND THEREFORE NOT AN DEBATABLE CRIME? IF IT'S FAMILY VIOLENCE, AS I SPOKE ON BEFORE, IT WILL BE ROUTED TO THE FAMILY VIOLENCE UNIT, WHICH WILL BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE REPORT AND IT WILL BE LABELED AS A FAMILY VIOLENCE REPORT.
IT WILL HAVE AGGRAVATED ASSAULT FAMILY VIOLENCE BEHIND THE, THE, THE INCIDENT.
SO THEN IF THE LABEL ON THE REPORT DOESN'T SAY FAMILY VIOLENCE, IT'S NOT ROUTED TO FAMILY VIOLENCE AND IT COUNTS AS A DEBATABLE OFFENSE, SIR, I DON'T CLASSIFY HOW THE O HOW THE OFFICER SEES THE REPORT.
I CAN'T, UH, SPEAK TO HOW HE OR SHE WOULD CLASSIFY THE REPORT.
BUT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MAKES THE DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER IT'S FAMILY VIOLENCE AND THEREFORE NOT COUNTED TOWARDS AN DEBATABLE OFFENSE OR WHETHER, AND I MAKE THE DETERMINATION, I MAKE THE DETERMINATION OFF OF WHAT THEY HAVE PUT IN THE REPORT AND WHAT THEY HAVE DETERMINED IT AS.
SO YOU RELY ON THE REPORTING OFFICER'S CHARACTERIZATION? I RELY ON THE REPORT ON WHAT'S PUT IN FRONT OF ME YES SIR.
AND NOT THE ACTUAL COMMENTS IN THE INCIDENT REPORT, WHICH MAY SAY THAT THIS IS AN ACT OF FAMILY VIOLENCE.
I READ THINGS, SAW YOUR REPORT, AND I CHARACTERIZE THE REPORT, THE INCIDENT.
SO WHY IS IT THAT THE INCIDENT, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE SEXUAL ASSAULT INCIDENT WHERE THE REPORTING OFFICER HAS STATED THAT THE ASSAILANT WAS ARRESTED TO PREVENT FURTHER ACTS OF FAMILY VIOLENCE.
MY QUESTION IS, WHY IS THAT COUNTING TOWARDS AN DEBATABLE OFFENSE? IT'S IN THERE, I USE THE TOOLS TO CHARACTERIZE IT.
AND IT'S NOT A FAMILY VIOLENCE OFFENSE.
IT'S, IT'S IN THERE AND IT'S CHARACTERIZED AS AVAILABLE OFFENSE.
I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT ELSE YOU HOW ELSE YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER THE QUESTION? I'M SORRY.
AND SO I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR, IT'S BASED ON WHAT THE REPORTING OFFICER HAS INPUTTED IN THE INCIDENT REPORT AS THE OFFENSE, NOT NECESSARILY THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT IS CONTAINED IN THE REPORT.
I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? SO IN THIS PARTICULAR ONE, INCIDENT 0 0 8 6 6 0, WHICH IS CHARGE, THE CHARGE IS LABELED AS A SEXUAL ASSAULT, THAT IS WHAT YOU USE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S AN AVAILABLE OFFENSE? YES, SIR.
AND IT'S NOT WHAT MAY BE IN THE SUBSTANCE OF THE COMMENTS IN THOSE INCIDENT REPORTS DESCRIBING IT AS FAMILY VIOLENCE? OUR REPORT IS ANALYZED.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO ANSWER IT ON.
NOW THE SHOTS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED A LOT ABOUT THE GUNFIRE COMING FROM OFF THE PROPERTY AND IN THESE FIELDS WITH THE OPERABILITY OF A GATE IN ANY WAY PREVENT SHOTS BEING FIRED FROM OFF THE PROPERTY IN THIS FIELD ONTO THE PROPERTY.
I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT? HOW IS IT THAT ANY OF THE SECURITY MEASURES SUGGESTED BY DPD IN THE FINAL NOTICE WOULD PROHIBIT OR PREVENT SOMEONE FROM SHOOTING A BULLET IN A FIELD OUT THE PROPERTY'S PREMISES ONTO THE PROPERTY? ONLY ONE OF THE REPORTS THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS WHAT I SAW THAT THE RE THE SHOTS CAME FROM OFF THE PROPERTY.
THE MAJORITY OF THE REPORTS, THE SHOTS CAME FROM ON THE PROPERTY.
EVEN ONE OF THE REPORTS THAT YOU ARE, YOU ARE TALKING AND SPEAKING OF, THEY EVEN STATED IN THE REPORT THAT THE SUSPECT COULD BE POSSIBLY IN APARTMENT, APARTMENT 3 0 6.
THE AVAILABLE WAY TO TWO COUNTERACT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME ON THE MEASURES
[03:30:01]
THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF IS YES, IF THE FENCE IS FIXED, YOU WON'T HAVE THE PROBLEM OF PEOPLE COMING FROM THE FIELD ONTO YOUR PROPERTY COMMITTING THE CRIMES.IT WILL STOP THE PEOPLE FROM HAVING ACCESS.
IF THE CONTROL GATES ARE CLOSED, YOU WON'T HAVE PEOPLE COMING ONTO YOUR PROPERTY COMMITTING OFFENSES IF YOUR SECURITY OFFICERS ARE AT THE GATE IN THE BOOTH STOPPING PEOPLE.
I DROVE ONTO THE PROPERTY, NO ONE STOPPED ME, NO ONE TRIED TO IDENTIFY ME, NO ONE EVEN CARED WHO I WAS AND WHEN I DROVE ONTO THE PROPERTY TO DO MY ACCESS OF THE LIGHTING.
SO IF THOSE THINGS ARE IN PLACE, SIR, THEN YES, CRIME WILL COME DOWN.
IT WILL SLOW IT DOWN BECAUSE THAT IF I WAS A CRIMINAL, I WOULD'VE FELT COMFORTABLE DRIVING ONTO THE PROPERTY, COMMITTING A CRIME AND DROPPING OFF.
'CAUSE NO ONE STOPPED ME, NO ONE TOOK MY LICENSE PLATE DOWN, NO ONE CARED TO SEE WHO I WAS.
AND AND I APPRECIATE ALL THOSE THINGS AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU DETECTIVE HAYNES.
BUT MY QUESTION IS WITH RESPECT TO WHAT IS ACTUALLY LISTED IN THE NOTICE AND THOSE SPECIFIC CRIMES, FOR INSTANCE, INCIDENT 0 9 7 1 7 0, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU REFER TO AS THE SHOTS COMING OFF THE PROPERTY AND THE POTENTIAL OF THE SUSPECTS BEING IN UNIT 3 0 8.
IN FACT, THE OFFICERS CHECKED UNIT 3 0 8 AND THE SUSPECTS WEREN'T THERE, WERE THEY? MRS. HAD ALREADY BEEN TRANSPORTED TO THE HOSPITAL TWO MINUTES AFTER THE INCIDENT.
AND THIS HAPPENED ON PROPERTY.
THEY FLAGGED DOWN A GOOD SAMARITAN AND THEY HAD ALREADY BEEN TRANSPORTED TO THE HOSPITAL DUE TO ONE OF THE GUYS BEING SHOT.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE SUSPECTS OFFICER, NOT, NOT THE VICTIMS. THEY CAME FROM ALL THE PROPERTY.
CORRECT? SUSPECT, THE SUSPECT.
I HAVE NO IDEA OF HOW HE LEFT THE PROPERTY, BUT YES, IT TOOK PLACE ON THE PROPERTY.
AND TO SPEAK TO THE SECURITY MEASURES, I WAS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE BY THE MEASUREMENTS THAT WE ASKED YOU ALL TO PUT IN PLACE YOUR 10, YOUR, UM, CLIENT, IF THE FENCE WAS UP, SIR, THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE FELT, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD A WAY TO LEAVE BECAUSE I THINK, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, WHEN THEY LEFT THE PROPERTY, THEY LEFT THROUGH THAT OPEN FIELD AND GOT PICKED UP.
WHICH INCIDENT ARE YOU REFERRING TO? IF THAT FENCE, IF THAT FENCE WAS FIXED.
THE SAME INCIDENT THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF, OFFICER, I'M LOOKING AT THAT INCIDENT REPORT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU.
THE SHOTS CAME FROM THE FIELD.
NEITHER THE SUS THE SUSPECT WAS NOT FOUND ON THE PROPERTY AND THE SEARCH WAS DONE OF THE UNITS AND THE SUSPECT WAS NOT FOUND THERE.
THE COMPLAINANTS THAT GOT PICKED UP, SIR, LEFT THROUGH THAT OPEN FIELD AND GOT PICKED UP.
AND CAN YOU POINT ME TO WHAT PAGE OF THAT INCIDENT REPORT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? YOU HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS, DETECTIVE.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRYING TO ALMOST START MR. KORA? YES, MA'AM.
I'M TRYING TO, I WANTED TO ANSWER HIS QUESTION.
AND AND THAT WOULD BE MY FINAL QUESTION IN ANY RESPECT.
YOUR TIME IS ACTUALLY UP AT THIS POINT.
UM, THANK YOU SO MUCH, DETECTIVE FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.
WE WILL NOW MOVE TO BOARD QUESTIONING AT THIS TIME.
UH, WE WILL GO IN TURN AND YOU WILL BE RECOGNIZED FOR THREE MINUTES.
I ALSO WANNA LET YOU GUYS KNOW THAT WE WILL TRY TO PUSH THROUGH.
I DO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE, BUT, UM, REALLY THE ONLY, UM, LAST ITEMS WE NEED TO DO IS THEIR CLOSING STATEMENTS, WELL QUESTIONING FROM THE BOARD RIGHT NOW, AND THEN THEIR FINAL STATEMENTS BEFORE WE MAKE A DECISION ON THIS APPEAL.
SO WE'LL START WITH, UH, MS. ANO, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR, UM, OUR DETECTIVE OR THE CITY ATTORNEY? THANK YOU.
I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR OUR, AND I JUST WANTED TO ASK, DID YOU MENTION THAT YOU SAID, DID YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT 1700 TIMES BEING CALLED OUT OR WAS THAT ACCURATE? YES, MA'AM.
AND THAT, ARE YOU SAYING DPD PHYSICALLY CAME OUT 1700 TIMES BETWEEN AUGUST OF 2020 TO I THINK YOU SAID AUGUST OF 2023? YES, MA'AM.
I CAN TELL YOU WHICH TAB IT'S ON.
SORRY, I'M, I'M JUST HAVING, HE'S SHARING, SHARING.
[03:35:02]
DO I NEED TO REPEAT? NEED TO REPEAT THE, NO, SO, OH, GO AHEAD.CAN, CAN Y'ALL SEE THE SCREEN? THIS IS JUST A DEMONSTRATIVE AID.
BUT IT'S ALSO TAB SEVEN IN THE CITY, TAB SEVEN.
I HAVE, THANK YOU MR. THANK YOU MR. JEFFERSON.
MR. JEFF JEFFERS, I HAVE NO QUESTIONS.
DID THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT GIVE YOU ANY EXPLANATION OF WHY THE GATES ARE NOT WORKING YET? YES, SIR.
WHEN I WENT BACK OUT THERE, SHE TOLD ME THAT THEY HAD TO WAIT FOR IT TO GO ONLINE.
THEY HAD TO DO A APP AND, UM, THEY HAD TO PUT EVERYBODY ONTO THIS APP AND LOAD EVERYONE ON THERE.
AND SHE HAD NO DATE AS TO WHEN THAT WOULD BE LIVE AND ACTIVE ON WHEN THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO UPLOAD EVERYONE.
SO THEY, THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING MAYBE NOT ENOUGH, BUT THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING.
OH, NO, UH, SIR, THAT WAS AFTER THE FACT.
THAT WAS THIS PAST, UH, PRIOR, THIS PAST WEEK WHEN I WENT OUT THERE TO SPEAK.
I I UNDERSTAND THAT WAS NOT PRIOR TO, TO THE ACCORD MEETING.
MR. CLINT, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED AT THIS TIME.
SO, UM, DETECTIVE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE.
WE APPRECIATE ALL YOU DO FOR THE CITY.
SO, MR. SINGAPORE HAD SAID THAT SINCE THE NEW MANAGEMENT COMPANY TOOK OVER, UH, THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE AVAILABLE OFFENSE YET SINCE THE HCP LETTER WENT OUT, THERE'S BEEN FOUR MORE AVAILABLE OFFENSES.
WOULD YOU SAY CRIME IS STILL HAPPENING ON THAT PROPERTY? YES, SIR.
CRIME IS STILL HAPPENING ON THAT PROPERTY.
AND THEN I THINK THE ONE AVAILABLE THAT HE WAS TRYING TO SPEAK UPON WAS THE ONE THAT WAS PRIOR IN THE PAST THAT THAT WASN'T BASED ON THE HCP LETTER.
HE WAS TRYING TO SPEAK TO THE HISTORICAL CRIME ON THE PROPERTY THAT WASN'T EVEN PART OF THE 365 DAY PERIOD.
SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT THE POLICE HAVE BEEN CALLED OUT 1700 TIMES, WOULD YOU SAY THIS PROPERTY IS A VERY DANGEROUS PROPERTY? I'M SORRY, I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.
I JUST HEARD THE 1700 WITH, WITH 1700 TIMES THE POLICE HAVE BEEN CALLED TO THE PROPERTY.
WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THIS PROPERTY AS VERY DANGEROUS? UH, YES, I WOULD.
UM, JUST A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS AND I'LL, AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL LET YOU GO.
SO THEY HAVE 26 CAMERAS, UM, OF WHICH, YOU KNOW, ARE NOT FUNCTIONAL A HUNDRED PERCENT YET.
UM, AND YOU SAID THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CAMERAS.
WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD NUMBER OF CAMERAS FOR THEM TO HAVE? UH, SIR, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, SHE'S SAYING THAT THEY HAVE 26.
I HAVE YET TO BE ABLE TO VERIFY THAT THE TWO TIMES THAT I HAVE BEEN ON THE PROPERTY TO ASK TO SEE THE CAMERAS, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO ME.
THEY CAN'T SHOW ME THE LIVE FEED.
THEY CAN'T PULL ANYTHING UP TO VERIFY THAT THEY EVEN HAVE THE CAMERAS WORKING.
SO I CAN'T TELL YOU WHERE THE CAMERAS ARE POINTING TO.
I CAN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT 'EM.
SO TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, SO WHAT THE FENCE IS, YOU KNOW, NOT COMPLETE.
UM, WOULD YOU SAY THAT THIS IS, UH, A, A, A PROPERTY THAT PEOPLE WOULD NOT WANT TO LIVE IN FOR THE, THE DANGER I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND FOR ANY OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS STILL LIVE THERE.
AND I APPRECIATE YOUR HONESTY AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIND TODAY.
UM, MR. VEDA, YOU RECOGNIZE AT THIS TIME.
UM, MR. SNICK, I I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
UM, DETECTIVE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
AND I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND I'VE GOT THREE MINUTES, SO I'M GONNA TRY TO, UH, GET THROUGH THESE.
UM, WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE AREA WHERE THIS, UH, PROPERTY IS LOCATED IS, IS A HIGH CRIME PART OF TOWN? YES, I HAVE CRIME HAPPENING AROUND THEM, BUT NOT, NOT TO THE POINT TO WHERE YOU WOULDN'T GO OVER THERE.
LIKE I STILL GO TO LUNCH OR SOMETHING DOWN THE STREET OR SOMETHING.
[03:40:01]
THERE'S SOMETHING THAT I WANT TO EAT OR SOMETHING, I JUST WOULDN'T GO ONTO THAT PROPERTY, SO TO SPEAK.SO I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THE WHOLE AREA IS BAD, SO, SO IS IT ACCURATE THAT THIS PROPERTY STANDS OUT IN THE AREA THAT IT'S IN AS THE YES, IT DOES STAND OUT.
UM, THE, THERE'S A GENERAL ORDER, UH, DPD GENERAL ORDER REGARDING, UH, ARRESTING PEOPLE FOR A SMALL QUANTITY OF MARIJUANA.
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT? YES, I'M, IS IS POSSESSION OF MARIJUANA STILL ILLEGAL IN THE CITY OF DALLAS? I KNOW IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, THEY STILL, UH, THEY STILL ONLY ARREST FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT AND I KNOW THAT THEY CITE FOR THE OTHER AMOUNT.
AND, UH, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT, UH, FAMILY VIOLENCE.
UM, I KNOW THAT THERE MAY BE SOME DISTINCTION BETWEEN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND FAMILY VIOLENCE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS, BUT SPECIFICALLY WITH RESPECT TO FAMILY VIOLENCE, UM, IN THAT CONTEXT, WOULD YOU CONSIDER SOMEONE THAT YOU HAVE, UH, GONE OUT ON DATES WITH TO BE FAMILY? UH, NO, I WOULDN'T.
AND THEN YES, IF IT'S A RELATIONSHIP THAT'S BEEN ON AND ON AND ON, THEN MAYBE YES.
BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A LONG RELATIONSHIP, NOT JUST SOMEONE I'VE BEEN OUT ON A COUPLE OF DATES WITH.
UM, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE, UH, INCIDENT AND I'M SORRY I DON'T HAVE THE, THE NUMBER UP IN FRONT OF ME.
THERE'S AN INCIDENT THAT THE APPELLANT REFERRED TO WHERE, UH, ONE OF THE COMPLAINANTS HAD DATED ONE OF THE ARRESTED PARTIES.
UH, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT INCIDENT? IT WAS A, A CARJACKING? UH, YES, I THINK I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT ONE, SIR.
HE WENT TO THE LOCATION, BUT THE PERSON THAT COMMITTED THE OFFENSE AGAINST THEM WAS NOT THE BOYFRIEND OR THE GIRLFRIEND.
THE SUSPECT WAS, UM, AN ANOTHER UNKNOWN PERSON TO THEM.
IS THAT THE ONE THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF? THAT IS THE ONE THAT I'M REFERRING TO, YES, SIR.
I'M, YOU CONSIDER THAT, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT AN INCIDENT OF FAMILY VIOLENCE? NO, SIR.
BECAUSE THE SITUATION WAS, THE OFFENSE WAS COMMITTED BY NOT THE BOYFRIEND, BUT AN OUTSIDE PERSON.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE DETECTIVE.
CAN A CRIME BE BOTH, UH, CATEGORIZED AS A CRIME IN ADDITION TO FAMILY VIOLENCE? LIKE, CAN THEY BOTH EXIST AT THE SAME TIME? FOR EXAMPLE, UH, THE SEXUAL ASSAULT, CAN THAT BE A CRIME BUT ALSO BE REFERRED TO THE OFFICE OF FAMILY VIOLENCE? IF THEY HAD A SPECIAL, I'VE SEEN DIFFERENT CRIMES BE, UH, CHARACTERIZED AS BOTH, BUT NORMALLY IT'LL HAVE IT LIKE IN THE OFFENSE TITLE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING, BUT I'VE SEEN IT BE CHARACTERIZED AS MULTIPLE THINGS, WHETHER IT IS THE CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF OR WHETHER IT IS A CRIME OF SOMETHING ELSE.
AND UM, MR. HERNANDEZ, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS WOULD BE A QUESTION MORE FOR YOU, BUT DOES THE CITY, UH, CONTEND THAT THE 13 AVAILABLE CRIMES THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED TO THE BOARD TODAY HAVE ALREADY, YOU'VE ALREADY CONSIDERED FAMILY VIOLENCE AND YOU CONTEND THAT THE 13 PRESENTED HAVE, ARE NOT WITHIN THE REALM OF FAMILY VIOLENCE? YES.
TO THE BEST OF MY AWARENESS, YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
UM, THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE.
WE WILL DO ONE MORE RUN THROUGH.
YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES BOARD MEMBERS, UH, YOU'LL BE RECOGNIZED FOR TWO MINUTES IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME, UH, FOR OUR WITNESS BEFORE WE HEAR OUR CLOSING STATEMENTS.
SO I'LL START AT THE TOP WITH MS. ANO, NO QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU, MS. ANO, MS. WILLIS, NO QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU MR. JEFFS, UH, THANK YOU MR. HAYES.
AND MR.
UM, DETECTIVE, UH, I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A, A VACANT FIELD AND THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE VACANT FIELD NEXT TO,
[03:45:01]
UM, THE PROPERTY.I KNOW THAT EVEN IN, IN MY PART OF TOWN, ON SOME OCCASIONS, PEOPLE ARE JUST FIRING GUNSHOTS, UH, IN THE AIR.
IF, IF FOLKS WERE DOING THAT IN THIS VACANT FIELD AND THE BULLETS WERE HITTING, UH, THE BUILDINGS AND, UH, AND THAT POSSIBLY EXPLAINS SOME OF THESE INCIDENTS, WOULD YOU HOLD THE PROPERTY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT? NO, SIR, I WOULDN'T.
ON ALL OF THE REPORTS THAT I READ, NO, THERE WERE NO REPORTS OF NO ONE SHOOTING UP IN THE AIR.
UH, AND THE LAST QUESTION FOR ME, DETECTIVE, DO YOU THINK THAT THERE, UM, AND THIS COULD BE A, YOU KNOW, JUST A YES OR NO QUESTION, BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY'VE DONE ENOUGH TO KEEP THE RESIDENTS SAFE AT THIS POINT? NO.
AND THANK YOU TO THE WITNESSES FOR BEING HERE.
WE ARE NOW GOING TO MOVE TO THE CLOSING.
UM, THE BOARD WILL NOW HEAR CLOSING STATEMENTS AND ARGUMENTS.
EACH SIDE WILL HAVE FIVE MINUTES.
WE WILL BEGIN WITH
SO, UM, MR. SPORA, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES.
AND I WANT TO THANK THE BOARD FOR THEIR, UH, TIME AND ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER THIS MORNING, AS WELL AS, AS WELL AS DETECTIVE HAYNES, WHO I KNOW FROM OTHER PROPERTIES.
AND SHE'S A FINE DETECTIVE AND OFFICER, AND CERTAINLY HER PRESENCE HAS SEEN AND RESULTED IN BETTER IMPROVEMENTS ON SECURITY AT THIS PROPERTY.
UM, I DO APPRECIATE ALSO MR. HERNANDEZ AND MS. REEVES FOR, UH, BEING COLLABORATIVE IN NATURE THUS FAR TO THIS PROCESS.
I'D LIKE TO START OFF THIS CLOSING ARGUMENT BY FIRST, UM, POINTING OUT SOMETHING THAT I WAS ABLE TO FIND TO ANSWER SEVERAL QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE TODAY.
UM, THE TEXAS FAMILY CODE DOES DEFINE THE TERM AND PHRASE FAMILY VIOLENCE, AND THAT INCLUDES A MEMBER OF A FAMILY OR HOUSEHOLD VIOLENCE AGAINST A NUMBER MEMBER, ANOTHER MEMBER OF THAT FAMILY OR HOUSEHOLD, AS WELL AS DATING VIOLENCE.
NOW, AS YOU HEARD FROM DETECTIVE HAYNES, WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR AND THE WAY THESE INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN CHARACTERIZED, WE ARE AT THE WHIM OF THE REPORTING OFFICER'S CHARACTERIZATION AT THE TOP OF THIS INCIDENT REPORT AS TO WHAT THEY FEEL SUBJECTIVELY IS THE CAUSE OR THE ROOT, OR I SUPPOSE, PRIMARY CHARGE OR, UH, YOU KNOW, ACTIVITY OR CHARACTERIZATION OF THE OFFENSE.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANCE OF ANY OF THESE INCIDENT REPORTS, WHICH SEVERAL OF THEM DISCUSS DATING RELATIONSHIPS, SOME OF WHICH EVEN SAY FAMILY VIOLENCE.
THE REPORTING OFFICER ISN'T HERE TO PROVIDE TESTIMONY.
THE VICTIM ISN'T HERE TO PROVIDE TESTIMONY.
WE ARE BASING IT OFF REDACTED REPORTS AND THE CHARACTERIZATION THAT THE RESPONDING OFFICER HAPPENED TO PUT THAT DAY.
AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO LOOK AT THE STATEMENT WE'VE PROVIDED AS WELL AS THE INCIDENT REPORTS IN MAKING THE DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER THE PRESUMPTION ITSELF HAS ACTUALLY BEEN MET.
SECONDARILY, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS OPEN FIELD, THERE ISN'T A FENCE OR A GATE OR ANYTHING IN THE WORLD THAT'S GOING TO PROTECT ANYBODY AT THE PROPERTY, THE EMPLOYEES, THE PATRONS, THE PERSON DELIVERING UBER EATS FROM GUNSHOTS BEING FIRED IN AN OPEN FIELD THAT'S NOT BEING MAINTAINED, THAT WE DON'T CONTROL, THAT WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT.
THESE REPORTS SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT THE GUNSHOTS CAME FROM OFF THE FIELD, PENETRATED THROUGH THE APARTMENT INTO THE UNITS AT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX.
NOW, THIS ISN'T, OKAY, THIS ISN'T ACCEPTABLE.
THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS AN DEBATABLE OFFENSE ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE OWNERSHIP GROUP IS CURRENTLY IN PLACE AT THE GREENS OF HICKORY TRAIL, AND I BELIEVE IT IS, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT FURTHERS THE PURPOSE OF THE HCP ORDINANCE ITSELF.
NOW, I WANNA BRIEFLY TOUCH ON THE 9 1 1 CALLS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED HERE A LITTLE BIT.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, OBVIOUSLY AS THE BOARD KNOWS, THE REQUISITE FIVE AVAILABLE OFFENSES NEED TO RESULT IN AN INVESTIGATION OF A CRIME OCCURRING ON THE PROPERTY OR AN ENFORCEMENT ACTION FOR THE VICTIM THAT IS LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY.
IF THE 9 1 1 CALLS, WHICH IS TAB SEVEN IN THE CITY'S BINDER, IF THE BOARD WERE TO ACTUALLY REVIEW THE SUBSTANCE OF IT, NEARLY ALL OF THE 1700 ARE SELF, UH, INITIATED UNIT DISPATCHES FROM DPD AS PART OF THE HOTSPOT OFFENDER FOCUS PROGRAM THAT CHIEF EDDIE GARCIA PUT INTO PLACE ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, WHICH LOOKS AT HOTSPOT CRIMINAL ABATEMENT STATED DIFFERENTLY.
[03:50:01]
THESE ARE DPD PATROL THAT ARE INITIATED AND SENT OUT DIRECTLY FROM THE PRECINCT ON THEIR OWN ACCORD.THE 9 1 1 CALLS ARE CHARACTERIZED AND CODED DIFFERENTLY THROUGHOUT THE 1700, UH, CELLS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN TAB SEVEN.
THESE AREN'T 1709 1 1 CALLS, AND IT'S VERY EASY TO SEE HOW THOSE NUMBERS CAN, SOME BE SOMEWHAT MANIPULATED WHEN PRESENTED TO THIS BOARD WHEN YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANCE OF THE EVIDENCE.
SO FOR THESE INCIDENT REPORTS, YOU'VE SEEN AND HEARD TESTIMONY THAT CURRENT OWNERSHIP HAS COME AND PUT INTO PLACE ADDITIONAL SECURITY MEASURES, LIGHTING CAMERA ON SECURITY AND MONITOR CAMERA.
LET'S LOOK AT THESE DEBATABLE OFFENSES.
TWO, TWO OF THE OFFENSES TAKE PLACE DURING THE DAYTIME.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M CELEBRATING WITH, UH, BALLOONS.
UH,
I'M MAKING, UM, THESE CRIMES, TWO OF THEM TAKE PLACE DURING THE DAYTIME, THE OFFENSES AND WHAT IS TAKING PLACE BASED ON THE INCIDENT REPORTS ARE HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHEN THERE IS SECURITY CURRENTLY IN PLACE AND MEASURES HAVE BEEN TAKEN.
OKAY, THE LAST THING I'D LIKE TO LEAVE THE BOARD WITH IS SOMETHING THAT MR. HERNANDEZ MENTIONED IN HIS OPENING STATEMENT, WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS DESIGNATION.
AND THAT IS TO REQUIRE THE PLACARD REQUIRE THE PAYMENT OF FEES TO ENCOURAGE PROPERTY OWNERS TO DO THEIR PART.
SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE TENANTS BREAKING THROUGH THEIR OWN FENCE AND GOING THROUGH THE FIELD TO VISIT FRIENDS.
WE THAT PART OF THIS ORDINANCE IS NOT PROTECTING TENANTS FROM THEMSELVES.
NOBODY'S ASKING, WE CAN'T CONTROL IF A TENANT WANTS TO HOP A FENCE AND GO THROUGH A FIELD, IS A SHORTCUT.
MEASURES BEING TAKEN BY PROPERTY OWNERSHIP HAVE BEEN DONE ABSENT AND WITHOUT THE REQUIREMENT OF A PLACARD, WITHOUT THE REQUIREMENT OF A FEE.
AND FRANKLY, AS THE BOARD PROBABLY UNDERSTANDS FROM PREVIOUS HEARINGS, THE BIGGEST CONTENTION HERE THOUGH, BIGGEST ISSUE, THE FEE IS FINE.
I'M SURE ANY PROPERTY OWNER PAID THE FEE.
IT'S THE PLACARD, THE SCARLET LETTER THAT FOLLOWS YOU.
THE ONE THAT YOU HAVE TO WEAR BIG, BROAD ON THE FRONT OF YOUR PROPERTY WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THE COMMUNITY, TRYING TO CHANGE THE DYNAMICS AND TO CHANGE THE ASSOCIATE SOCIAL ASPECT AND SOCIAL SIDE AND COMMUNITY SIDE OF THESE PROPERTIES.
TO PUT A BIG SIGN THAT SAYS THIS IS A PLACE WHERE FREQUENT CRIMES OCCUR.
AND THE MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS, HAS THE CITY CARRIED ITS BURDEN TO SAY THE PRESUMPTION EXISTS FOR THIS PROPERTY OWNER AND THIS PROPERTY TO CARRY THAT SCARLET LETTER AS DESERVING? AND I DON'T THINK SO.
THAT IS YOUR TIME, MR. SINGAPORE.
ACTUALLY GAVE YOU A MINUTE OVER.
SO, UM, MR. HERNANDEZ, UH, YOU'LL BE RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES, BUT ARE WELCOME TO HAVE AN ADDITIONAL ONE.
AND I'M GONNA TURN CLOSING OVER TO MY COLLEAGUE, MS. MRS. TRACY REEVES CITY HAS A, A BRIEF CLOSING.
MEMBERS OF THE BO BOARD, FIRST AND FOREMOST CITY, THANKS CHIEF FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION OF THIS MATTER TODAY.
UH, YOU'VE CERTAINLY BEEN PRESENTED A GREAT DEAL OF EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY, AND I'LL, I'LL DO MY BEST TO GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT HERE FOR YOU.
SO, IN ORDER FOR THE BOARD TO UPHOLD THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S FINAL DESIGNATION OF A PROPERTY AS HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY, THESE THREE THINGS MUST BE ESTABLISHED AS TRUE.
NUMBER ONE, THE PROPERTY MUST HAVE A HISTORY OF DEBATABLE CRIME AS DEFINED IN CHAPTER 1 25 OF THE TEXAS CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE NUMBER TWO, THE PROPERTY MUST HAVE EXPERIENCED AT LEAST FIVE AVAILABLE CRIMES WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD.
AND NUMBER THREE, IT MUST BE ESTABLISHED THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER KNOWINGLY TOLERATED CRIME BY FAILING TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO ABATE THAT CRIME.
THAT DETERMINATION CAN BE MADE BY EVALUATING WHAT REASONABLE MEASURES THE PROPERTY OWNER TOOK TO ABATE CRIME PRIOR TO THE CITY'S INTERVENTION.
AND ALSO BY EVALUATING, UH, EVIDENCE OF THOSE MEASURES PRESENTED AT THE HCP ACCORD MEETING AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, THE CITY WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU TODAY ESTABLISH EXACTLY THOSE THREE THINGS ARE TRUE.
WITH RESPECT TO 86 13 OLD HICKORY TRAIL AND ITS OWNERSHIP.
FIRST, THE CITY SUBMITTED EVIDENCE AND DETECTIVE HAYNES TOLD YOU THAT 86 13 OLD HICKORY TRAIL HAS A HISTORY OF AAT CRIME.
SPECIFICALLY 12 AVAILABLE OFFENSES OCCURRED BETWEEN 2020 AND 2022.
SECONDLY, EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY ESTABLISHED THAT IN THE 365 DAYS BETWEEN AUGUST 29TH, 2022 AND AUGUST 29TH, 2023 13, DEBATABLE OFFENSES OCCURRED AT THE PROPERTY.
THOSE DEBATABLE OFFENSES RANGE IN NATURE FROM POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUB SUBSTANCES AND CRIMINAL MISCHIEF TO THE IRREFUTABLY EGREGIOUS OFFENSES OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, ROBBERY, AND AGGRAVATED ASSAULT.
NOW, DETECTIVE HAYNES EXPLAINED TO YOU IN DETAIL WHILE THOSE
[03:55:01]
COMBINED 25 AB OFFENSE REPORTS, INCLUDING THE REPORTS CHALLENGED BY OPPOSING COUNSEL WERE APPROPRIATE TO INCLUDE FOR AAT CALCULATIONS.AND FINALLY, DETECTIVE HAYNES DESCRIBED TO YOU IN GREAT DETAIL HOW BASED UPON HER TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE, SHE DETERMINED THE PROPERTY OWNER KNOWINGLY TOLERATED CRIME AT THE PROPERTY IN THAT, IN THAT THERE WERE SIMPLY INSUFFICIENT REASONABLE CRIME PREVENTION MEASURES IN PLACE AT THE PROPERTY PRIOR TO THE CITY'S INTERVENTION ON SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023, SHE FURTHER DESCRIBED HOW THE PROPERTY OWNER FAILED TO SUBMIT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE OF REASONABLE MEASURES AT THE OCTOBER 10TH OF COURT MEETING, WHICH ULTIMATELY LED TO DPD UH, DPDS FINAL DETERMINATION OF THIS PROPERTY AS HCP.
NOW, CHAPTER 27 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE TELLS US THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE HCP PROCESS IS TO PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE OF DALLAS RESIDENTS.
AND WHEN A PROPERTY OWNER FAILS TO FULFILL ITS ROLE IN THAT PROCESS, THAT PORTION OF RESPONSIBILITY MUST FALL TO THE CITY.
HERE, THE PROPERTY OWNER OF 86 13 OLD HICKORY TRAIL FAILED TO FULFILL ITS ROLE AND THE CITY HAS BEEN FORCED TO ABSORB THAT BURDEN.
UPHOLDING DPDS FINAL DESIGNATION TODAY WILL NOT ONLY SERVE TO HOLD THE PROPERTY OWNER ACCOUNTABLE AND MAKE THE CITY WHOLE, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT WILL FURTHER THE CRITICAL GOAL OF PROTECTING THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE GREENS AT OLD HICKORY AND THE RESIDENTS OF DALLAS AS A WHOLE.
AND WITH THAT HONORABLE BOARD, THE CITY RE RESPECTFULLY REQUESTS THAT YOU DENY THIS APPEAL AND AFFIRM THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S FINAL DESIGNATION OF 86 13 OLD HICKORY TRAIL AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.
MAY I HAVE A MOTION FROM THE BOARD REGARDING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY FOR HICKORY TRAILS, DE HOLDINGS, LLC, EITHER TO AFFIRM OR REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE? DO WE HAVE A MOTION? I I MOVE TO AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF LOOKS MOTION BY I'LL SECOND THAT.
MOTION BY MR. SNICK TO AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE REGARDING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY FOR HICKORY TRAILS, DE HOLDINGS LLC SECONDED BY, UM, I BELIEVE MR. JEFFERSON WAS, IS THAT HIS, OH, MR. HAYES.
DIDN'T HEAR MR. HAYES SECONDED BY MR. HAYES.
UM, DO WE HA DO ANY MEMBERS OF THE BOARD WISH TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THE MOTION AT THIS TIME? UM, HOLD, I'LL SPEAK IN FAIR WITH MY MOTION.
UH, I, I WANNA START BY SAYING THAT THIS IS ANOTHER CLOSE CASE.
UM, BUT, UH, THE TIE GOES TO THE RUNNER, AND IN THIS CASE, THE PRESUMPTIONS ARE IN FAVOR OF THE CITY.
UM, I, I KNOW THAT, UH, MR. SINGAPORE MENTIONED THAT THE END OF HIS CLOSING, THAT, UH, HE DOESN'T BELIEVE THE CITY HAS MET THE BURDEN OF PROVING ITS PRESUMPTIONS.
UH, UNFORTUNATELY HERE THE BURDEN IS ON THE APPELLANT, UH, TO DISPROVE THE PRESUMPTIONS.
IT'S AN AWKWARD WAY THAT THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN.
I ACKNOWLEDGE, AND I'VE SAID THAT BEFORE, BUT IT IS THE, THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
UM, I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT THIS DOES NOT AFFECT MY, MY, UH, VOTE, BUT I DO THINK MR. SINGAPORE HAS A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE SCARLET LETTER AND THAT I, I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A, I I THINK THAT PUTTING UP THE SIGNS, HAVING TO PUT UP THE SIGNS IS INTENDED TO BE A DETERRENT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, BUT I THINK THE CITY SHOULD ALSO CONSIDER THAT, UH, PUTTING UP THE SIGNS MAY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS THAT THE CITY IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE.
UM, BUT A, AS RELATES TO MY DECISION, THE, THERE'S TWO MAIN THINGS THAT I SEE IN THE ORDINANCE.
ONE IS DO WE HAVE THE FIVE AVAILABLE OFFENSES AND APPELLANT, UH, CONCEDES THAT THERE ARE THREE AVAILABLE DEFENSES OFFENSES AND THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO WHERE, UH, I DISAGREE WITH THE APPELLANT, UM, THAT THEY DON'T COUNT.
AND THOSE ARE THE POSSESSION OF MARIJUANA CHARGE AND, UM, THE, UM, THE CARJACKING THAT APPELLANT CONTENDS WITH FAMILY VIOLENCE.
SO, UH, THAT, THAT GETS ME TO THE FIVE UM, BASED ON MY, MY CHARITABLE, UH, CONSIDERATION OF THE AVAILABLES.
AND THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES, UM, HAS THE OWNER TOLERATED THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? AND WE DO HAVE A NEW OWNER HERE, AND I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT THEY'VE OWNED IT FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS NOW.
WE'VE SEEN NEW OWNERS THAT COME IN WITH CRIME PROPERTIES AND IMMEDIATELY START DOING STUFF, AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, THERE IT
[04:00:01]
DOES TAKE TIME.RIGHT? BUT IF THE NEW OWNER IMMEDIATELY COMES IN AND STARTS TRYING TO CHANGE THE PROPERTY, THAT'S ONE THING HERE.
WE HAVE AN OWNER THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR, UH, ALMOST TWO YEARS AT THIS POINT AND, AND STILL HAS THINGS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ACCOMPLISHED.
SO, UM, I, I THINK IN THIS CASE, I CAN'T GIVE THE OWNER CREDIT FOR ANYTHING THAT THEY'VE DONE AFTER THE, UH, THE DETERMINATION, UH, OR, OR THE, UH, THE COURT MEETING.
SO THAT'S WHY I AM IN FAVOR OF PUBLIC, THE CHIEF DECISION.
DO WE HAVE ANY BOARD MEMBERS THAT WISH TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? OKAY.
UH, DO WE HAVE ANY MEMBERS THAT WANT TO, ANY BOARD MEMBERS THAT WISH TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION? YEAH, I'D LIKE TO.
YOU WANNA GO ROBERT OR ME? UH, JACK.
I, UH, THOUGHT MR. NIC'S COMMENTS, UH, SURMISED EVERYTHING QUITE NICELY.
I DIDN'T, WAS NOT CONVINCED OF THE PRI OF A CASE THAT, THAT THE, UH, DESIGNATION SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE BY THE ACCOUNT OF AAT OFFENSES.
IT WAS A CLOSE CALL THERE, BUT I'M NOT CONVINCED.
SO THAT GETS US INTO WHAT DID THEY DO AND WHEN DID THEY DO IT.
AND CLEARLY THE, THE FAULT REALLY, IF WE WANNA POINT FINGERS, LIES WITH THE PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT COMPANY.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE OWNER INHERITED ALL THE THINGS THAT WENT WRONG.
AND IF WE FOLLOW THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND THE TIMING OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE, WHILE I APPLAUD MS. BAIN'S EKS, UM, EFFORTS, AND I THINK SHE CERTAINLY POINTED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, UM, WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BASIS, UH, TO OVERTURN THE DETERMINATION BASED UPON WHAT HAPPENED WHEN.
SO I'M, I'M GOING TO VOTE TO SUPPORT THE MOTION.
MR. QUINT, YOU'RE RECOGNIZE AT THIS TIME, UH, THANK YOU CHAIR.
SO, JUST A COUPLE THINGS THAT, THAT JUMPED OUT TO ME.
UM, I'M NOT GONNA REHASH WHAT'S BEEN SAID, UM, WAS THE APPELLANT TRIED TO, UM, DOWNPLAY THE NUMBER OF DEBATABLE OFFENSES.
YET SINCE THE HCP LETTER HAS GONE OUT, THERE'S ALREADY BEEN FOUR DEBATABLE OFFENSES IN FIVE MONTHS.
SO CRIME IS STILL VERY MUCH HAPPENING ON THE PROPERTY.
UM, BUT UH, ANOTHER THING THAT REALLY JUMPED OUT WAS DPD HAS THEIR OWN CAMERA MONITORING ON SITE.
AND AGAIN, CRIME IS STILL HAPPENING.
UM, AND MR. SINGAPORE IN HIS CLOSING SAID THAT MOST OF THE CRIME CAME AT NIGHT AND THAT'S WHEN THEY HAVE ACTUAL SECURITY THERE, BUT THEY ONLY HAVE TWO SECURITY.
THAT LIGHTS ARE NOT WORKING A HUNDRED PERCENT AND THE CAMERAS ARE NOT WORKING.
SO I THINK THE CRIME IS JUST STILL GONNA CONTINUE.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, UH, EITHER AGAINST THE MOTION OR IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? OKAY.
IF THERE IS NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, WE WILL VOTE, UM, ON THE MOTION.
SO I DO HAVE A MOTION FOR THE BOARD, UH, TO AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND, UM, DETERMINE THE HICKORY TRAILS DE HOLDINGS, LLC AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION SAY AYE.
THE MOTION PASSED BY UNANIMOUS VOTE, UM, WITH EVERYONE VOTING AND IN FAVOR OF, TO, TO AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
THIS CONCLUDES TODAY'S HEARING.
I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR YOUR PATIENCE, UM, ON TODAY'S HEARING.
I HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD LUNCH AND BOARD MEMBERS PLEASE MONITOR YOUR EMAIL FOR THE FINDINGS.
THE BOARD IS, UM, THIS HEARING IS NOW ADJOURNED AT ONE 10.