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[Permit and License Appeal Board on February 1, 2024.]

[00:00:04]

GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND WELCOME TO THE HEARING OF THE FIRST PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.

IT IS NOW 8 46 ON THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST, 2024, AND WE HAVE TWO HEARINGS ON TODAY'S AGENDA.

THE FIRST FOR COWBOYS, RED RIVER, APPEALING THE DENIAL OF A DANCE HALL, LATE HOURS PERMIT, AND THE SECOND FOR HICKORY TRAILS, EE HOLDINGS, LLC, APPEALING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DESIGNATION AS AN INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.

AT THIS TIME, I WILL DO A BULK CALL, UH, IF PRESENT, PLEASE SAY HERE, EVENT SNICK.

HERE, VICE CHAIR.

MS. TORRES ANO.

HERE.

HERE.

WILLIS.

JEFFERSON.

HERE.

ILLA.

MR. JEFFS.

HERE.

MR. HAYES? HERE.

QUIN.

JIM? HERE.

MR. VERA HERE.

UH, SO ABSENT OR, AND THIS MEETING IS NOW CALLED ORDER WILL THE OTHER PRESENT AT TODAY'S HEARING, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, BEGINNING WITH THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL.

THANKS, MATTHEW.

AND FROM THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE, LAVA MARTINEZ, DONNA BROWN, AND, UH, THE APPELLANT IN THE FIRST HEARING.

CRAIG SHIELDS AND ROGER ALBRIGHT, OUR COUNSEL FOR COWBOYS RED RIVER.

AND CARRIE WADE IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE FROM COWBOYS RED RIVER.

SHE IS STILL TRYING TO GET IN.

I DON'T KNOW.

MS. BROWN, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEND HER ANOTHER LINK? UH, WE'LL, WE'LL FIND THAT OUT AND, UH, BARRY OR DONNA WILL, UH, EMAIL YOU.

UM, WHO DO WE HAVE FOR THE, UH, SECOND HEARING ON YET? HONORABLE CHAIR.

MAY I BE RECOGNIZED BRIEFLY, UH, MR. HERNANDEZ? YES.

HI.

GOOD MORNING.

UH, I BELIEVE CARD SURA, I JUST SAW HIM LOG IN, BUT, UM, THEY'VE BEEN HAVING SOME TECH ISSUES.

I THINK THEY'RE STILL WORKING THAT OUT, BUT I THINK HE CAN, UH, SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

BUT, UH, THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ASK IS IF YOU COULD KINDLY SPEAK INTO THE, UH, MICROPHONE A LITTLE BIT MORE.

IT MIGHT BE OUR AUDIO, UM, BUT IT'S KIND OF HARD TO, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BASEY AND HARD TO TO HEAR YOUR, YOUR QUESTIONS.

AH, THANK YOU.

YEAH, THANK YOU FOR THAT.

UM, WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT ROOM OTHER THAN WHERE WE USUALLY ARE, AND SO I'M NOT REALLY SURE HOW TO SET UP, BUT I WILL TRY TO SPEAK LOUDLY, BUT IF ANYBODY, IF AT ANY TIME YOU CANNOT HEAR ME, UH, LET ME KNOW.

UH, OKAY.

SO, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE FIRST HEARING, FORGIVE ME TO INTERRUPT, UH, BUT I DID JUST GET ACCESS.

MY NAME'S KARTHIK SINGAPORE.

I'M THE ATTORNEY FOR THE APPELLANT IN THE SECOND HEARING, UM, BEFORE YOU PROCEED.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

NO, UH, THANK YOU, MR. SINGAPORE.

AND, UH, DO YOU HAVE A WITNESS? WE DO.

UM, AND I BELIEVE AS, AS MR. HERNANDEZ WAS KIND ENOUGH TO POINT OUT, THERE'S, THEY'RE HAVING SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH THE LINK.

UM, BUT I BELIEVE WE'VE REQUESTED A NEW ONE AND HOPEFULLY SORTED BY THE TIME WE'RE CALLED.

OKAY.

UH, WHAT IS YOUR WITNESS'S NAME? THE FIRST IS MS. LESLIE BAIN SIMONETTE ON BEHALF OF THE OWNERSHIP GROUP.

OKAY.

AND THE SECOND IS MS. DEAN, UM, WHO IS A PROPERTY EMPLOYEE.

I'M SORRY, DID YOU SAY MS. DEAN? YES.

DEAN.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

UM, AND, UH,

[00:05:01]

WHO DO WE HAVE AS THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE FIRST MATTER? DAVID WILKINS.

MR. WILKINS.

AND, UH, MR. HERNANDEZ, ARE YOU HANDLING THE, UH, SECOND, UH, YES.

HONORABLE CHAIR ALONG WITH MY CO-COUNSEL, UH, MS. TRACY REEVES.

MORNING, MORNING OF YOU.

UM, AND, UH, FOR THE FIRST HEARING, MR. WILKINS, WHO DO YOU HAVE AS WITNESSES? BROOKS, I BELIEVE SHE'S ON RIGHT NOW.

YES.

GOOD MORNING.

I'M ON, ON THAT.

AFFECTED.

AND ANYBODY ELSE? OH, NO, THAT'S IT.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

AND MR. HERNANDEZ, WHO DO YOU HAVE, UH, WITNESSES? UH, HONORABLE CHAIR.

I HAVE DETECTIVE SONIA HAYNES.

WELCOME, DETECTIVE HAYNES.

GOOD MORNING.

ALL RIGHT.

WE, UH, NOW WOULD ALLOW FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON TODAY'S HEARINGS, UH, HOWEVER NO SPEAKERS HAVE REGISTERED TO ADDRESS THE BOARD.

SO THE FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM JANUARY 18TH, 2024.

UH, ALL MEMBERS SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED THE MINUTES INTO THE EMAIL.

UH, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? UH, ALL RIGHT.

I HEARD, UH, SECOND, MAKE THE MOTION.

UH, IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

SECOND BY MR. UH, HAYES? UH, DO ANYBODY WANT TO COMMENT ON THE MOTION? SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR DISCUSSION.

ALRIGHT.

ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO COMMENT ON THE MOTION? ALL RIGHT.

IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, THEN ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE 80 MINUTES FROM JANUARY 18TH, 2024, PLEASE SAY, AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY.

MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS THE APPEAL HEARING FOR COWBOYS RED RIVER.

UH, EVERYBODY PRESENT THAT WE NEED FOR THAT HEARING FEELS, I KNOW MS. WADE WAS ON HERE PREVIOUSLY, BUT SHE MAY HAVE DROPPED OFF, AND SHE IS OUR ONLY WITNESS.

WHILE WE WAIT FOR A WAVE TO GET ON, UH, WE'LL DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

UH, WE ARE AD HEARING THE APPEAL REQUEST OF COWBOYS RED RIVER APPEAL, THE DENIAL OF A DAN HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT UNDER SECTION 14 DASH 3.1 OF DALLAS CITY CODE.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THIS HEARING IS ON THE APPELLANT.

UM, I STILL, I DON'T SEE MS. SHIELDS, SO WE'LL COME BACK TO SWEARING IN THE WITNESSES.

UM, BUT, UH, FOR THE RECORD, MR. SHIELDS, UH, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU THINK YOU NEED FOR YOUR PRESENTATION? 10 MINUTES.

ALL RIGHT.

10 MINUTES.

UH, MR. WILKINS, 10 MINUTES ENOUGH FOR YOU.

OKAY.

UH, WE'LL, WE'LL GIVE YOU 10.

OKAY.

THANKS.

AND TAKE FIVE.

I I'LL, I'LL PROBABLY YIELD BACK.

YOU'LL HAVE MY UNDYING GRATITUDE.

OKAY.

UM, ALRIGHT.

AND WE HAVE, UH, ONE EXHIBIT, UH, FROM THE APPELLANT, IS THAT CORRECT? IT IS, UH, IT IS THREE DOCUMENTS, BUT ONE EXHIBIT.

OKAY.

AND, UH, SAME, WE HAVE ONE EXHIBIT WITH EIGHT TABS FROM THE CITY, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

ALRIGHT.

THOSE HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE.

WOULD

[00:10:01]

THE CITY ATTORNEY PLEAD, READ THE RELEVANT PORTION? OKAY.

DETERMINE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD.

MAY ANY ITS DISCRETION RANK LOCAL LOCATIONAL RESTRICTIONS OF SECTION 14 TO 3.1 FOR LATE HOURS, PERMIT FOR FIVE A, D, OR C INSTALL, WHICHEVER APPLIES.

IF THE COURT FINDS THAT THE LOCATION OF PROPOSED THE INSTALL WILL NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTY WILL BECOME CHERRY TO THE SAFETY OF WELFARE.

TWO, THE LOCATION, THE INSTALL WILL, WILL NOT DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUE FOR QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREA OR INFER DEVELOPMENT OF URBAN LIFE.

THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED LANDFALL ON OPERATING UNDER LATE HOURS PERMIT AND THE AREA WILL NOT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PUBLIC PROGRAM OF CONSERVATION OR INTERFERE WITH ANY EFFORTS OF URBAN.

AND LASTLY, ALL THEIR APPLICABLE PROVISIONS CHAPTER MS. WADE ON YET ON JUST YET CHAIR? UM, I DID RESEND THE LINK TO THE EMAIL THAT WE HAVE ON FILE.

UM, I DID ASK MR. SHIELDS IN A PRIVATE CHAT FOR HER PHONE NUMBER IF HE CAN SEND THAT TO ME.

THAT WAY I CAN HELP TROUBLESHOOT.

UM, ROGER, CAN YOU, CAN YOU DO THAT FOR US? YEAH, SURE.

HANG ON HALF SECOND.

I WILL, UH, GET IT.

UH, AND WHERE, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SEND IT? OR I JUST GIVE IT TO YOU RIGHT NOW IF YOU WANT.

WELL, I DON'T WANT YOU TO AIR THAT.

YEAH, YEAH, I WAS, THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO AVOID THAT.

LET ME SEND YOU A, A PRIVATE MESSAGE.

OKAY.

PUBLIC.

UM, WHAT, WHILE WE DO THAT, UH, MR. SHIELDS, DO YOU WANT TO DO YOUR OPENING? SURE.

OKAY.

AND THEN IF WE NEED TO, WE CAN TAKE A BRIEF RECESS, UH, AFTER THE PARTY IS OPEN, IT'S NOT GONNA BE VERY LONG.

IS THAT OKAY? UH, SURE.

UH, ME, MEMBERS OF THE PERMIT LICENSE APPEAL BOARD, I, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS MORNING.

UH, MY NAME IS CRAIG SHIELDS.

UH, ROGER ALBRIGHT AND MYSELF ARE REPRESENTING COWBOYS RED RIVER, UH, ON THIS LATE HOURS, A DENIAL OF LATE HOURS PERMIT APPEAL.

UM, AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW, COWBOYS RED RIVER HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1996.

UM, IT HAS OPERATED LATE HOURS SINCE 1996, HAS BEEN A DANCE HALL SINCE 1996.

AND, UM, IT WAS ONLY RECENTLY THAT, UH, IT WAS DETERMINED THAT THERE WAS A, AN APARTMENT COMPLEX WITHIN 905 FEET OF, UH, THE, THE ESTABLISHMENT.

AND, UH, ACCORDINGLY, THE DPD DENIED OUR REQUEST.

AND, UM, FOR, FOR THIS LATE HOUR PERMITS TODAY, THE, OUR TESTIMONY WILL SHOW THAT, UH, THIS HAS BEEN A, A GOOD NEIGHBOR, A GOOD ESTABLISHMENT IN DALLAS FOR 30 YEARS.

UM, UH, MS. WADE, WHEN WE FINALLY FIND HER WE'LL, WILL TESTIFY ABOUT THE SECURITY MEASURES AND, UM, ALL THE OTHER ACTIONS THAT COWBOYS RED RIVERS TAKES TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS DOES NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON, UH, NEARBY PROPERTIES AND DOES NOT DOWNGRADE THE VALUES OF ANY OF THE PROPERTIES.

UM, UH, SO IT, IT SHOULD BE A, A, A RELATIVELY, UH, UH, SHORT TO THE POINT.

UM, THEY, THEY, AND, AND I WILL TELL YOU, THEY ONLY OP, THEY ONLY STAY OPEN UNTIL THREE O'CLOCK EVERY NIGHT.

THAT'S WHAT SHE WILL TESTIFY TO.

THEY, THEY QUIT SERVING EVERYTHING AT 2:00 AM.

UM, AFTER THAT, THE TESTIMONY WILL SHOW THAT, THAT, THAT THEY GIVE OUT FREE SOFT DRINKS OR COFFEE OR WATER THAT ANYBODY WANTS IT, AND THEN SLOWLY LET FOLKS GO HOME.

WHEN YOU'VE GOT SIX, 800 PEOPLE GOING OUT INTO TRAFFIC ALL AT ONCE, IT JUST MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE AND IT'S A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE FOR THEM TO, UH, GO OUT SLOWLY.

SO STAYING OPEN PAST 2:00 AM ACTUALLY IS JUST A PURE EXPENSE FOR THE COMPANY.

AND, UH, THEY, THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY DOING THAT.

IT'S JUST REALLY FOR THE SECURITY AND WELFARE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE HIGHWAYS AND THE CUSTOMERS.

SO THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT OUR PRESENTATION WILL SHOW TODAY.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU MR. SHIELDS.

UH, MS. WILKINS, DO YOU WANT TO PROVIDE A BRIEF OPENING?

[00:15:01]

NO, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

ALRIGHT.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. CHAIR ROCKS ARE ALL RIGHT.

I RECEIVED NOTHING FROM STAFF, SO I DON'T, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW I CAN'T BE OF ANY, ANY HELP.

I MEAN, I HAVE CARRIE'S NUMBER, BUT, UH, UH, AGAIN, I WAS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, NOT BROADCAST IT TO THE WORLD.

YEAH.

UH, PLEASE DON'T, UM, WE WILL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RESET TO GET THAT SORTED OUT, AND THEN WE WILL BE BACK AT, UH, 9 0 6.

AND MR. ALBRIGHT, IF YOU DON'T MIND, UM, CAN YOU CALL ME TROUBLE CONNECTING? HOWEVER, WE'RE GONNA NEED TO, UH, PROCEED, UH, AND HOPEFULLY SHE, UH, CAN GET CONNECTED AT SOME POINT DURING THE, UH, APPELL PRESENTATION.

SO, UH, UNDERSTAND THAT THE CITY HAS ONE WITNESS.

UH, ARE THE WITNESSES PRESENT? WERE THE SECOND HEARING.

I'M, I'M SORRY, HONORABLE CHAIR.

WERE YOU REFERENCING THE SECOND HEARING? YES, THE WITNESS.

I'M, I'M SORRY, I'M TRYING, I'M HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

I, I UNDERSTOOD THE YES PART, BUT, UH, YEAH, SORRY.

YEAH, SORRY.

PRESENT.

ALRIGHT.

YES.

THEN LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE TO SWEAR IN, UH, ALL THE WITNESSES FOR BOTH HEARINGS.

UH, SORRY.

THERE MAY BE A DELAY WITH THE AUDIO ON MY END, CHAIRMAN, UH, BUT OUR WITNESSES HAVE NOT, UM, NOT HAD ACCESS YET.

I APOLOGIZE.

ALRIGHT, THAT'S FINE MR. SINGAPORE, THEN WE WILL SWEAR IN JUST THE WITNESSES WHO ARE PRESENT FOR THE FIRST HEARING.

UH, I DO NEED YOU TO PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERA AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SO THAT THE CITY SECRETARY CAN SWEAR YOU IN.

DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH? BROOKS, RAISE YOUR HAND.

I'M SORRY.

RAISE, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SHE'S GOING TO SWEAR YOU IN.

OKAY.

DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THE BOARD? I DO.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

AND, UH, WE WILL NOW, NOW BEGIN WITH THE PARTIES PRESENTATIONS, UH, BEGINNING WITH COWBOYS RED RIVER.

UH, MR. SHIELDS, YOU MAY PROCEED FOR 10 MINUTES.

OKAY.

WELL, OBVIOUSLY, UH, I WOULD FIRST POINT OUT THAT MY CLIENT HAS STILL NOT BEEN ABLE TO, UM, JOIN THIS, UH, THIS HEARING.

AND I WOULD THEREFORE, IT, IT, IT'S A TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY.

IT IS BEYOND MY ABILITY TO REPAIR IT AND GET HER HERE.

UM, AND I WOULD THEREFORE, I HAVE TO REQUEST A CONTINUANCE OF THIS HEARING UNTIL I CAN, UH, UNTIL I CAN GET HER HERE AND IN, IN PERSON IN LIVE BEFORE YOU.

UM, AS AN ALTERNATIVE, UM, I CAN CALL ROGER ALBRIGHT TO TESTIFY.

UH, AS HE IS FAMILIAR, THIS IS A LONG TIME CLIENT OF HIS AND I COULD WALK THROUGH, UH, THROUGH HIS TESTIMONY, BUT, UH, I THINK IT'D BE MORE APPROPRIATE, UH, TO, TO GRANT A CONTINUANCE SO THAT WE CAN GET MS. WADE, UH, HERE IN PERSON AS SHE'S THE PERSON WITH MOST, THE MOST PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.

UM, I, YEAH, SINCE, UH, SINCE IT WAS THE APPELLANT'S, UH, CHOICE TO APPEAR ONLINE, UM, NO, I, I I CAN DIFFER.

WE WERE GONNA, WE WANTED TO BE THERE IN PERSON HERE.

OKAY, SO, MS. WADE, UH, ARE YOU ONLINE NOW? DO YOU HAVE HER CONNECTED CHAIR? OKAY.

UM, MS. WADE, CAN I GET YOU TO, UH, TURN ON YOUR CAMERA AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SO YOU CAN BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY? THANK YOU,

[00:20:08]

MARY, DO WE HAVE MS. WADE'S CAMERA? UM, SHE IS, SHE WAS CONNECTED TO THE MEETING, UM, BUT HER CAMERA WE'RE HAVING A LITTLE ISSUE WITH HER CAMERA.

UH, WE WOULD PROPOSE MOVING FORWARD.

I I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WANNA SEE HER SWORN IN, BUT WE WOULD PROPOSE TO SWEAR HER IN VIA, AT LEAST BY HER PHONE, VIA VOICE FOR NOW, AND WE CAN GET HER AT SOME POINT TO EITHER SIGN A, AN AFFIDAVIT OR WHATEVER.

OH, I FOUND SOMEBODY THAT'S GOT HER, I SEE HER PICTURE.

OKAY.

CARRIE, CAN YOU HEAR ME? CAN YOU, YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU NOW.

OKAY.

UM, SORRY FOR THE HECTICNESS TO, TO EVERYONE THIS MORNING.

UM, CARRIE, CAN YOU, UH, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE? PLEASE? UH, LET, LET'S GET, LET'S GET, UH, MS. WAITS FIRST.

MAYBE FIVE 12.

OH, I'M SORRY.

MOVE ON.

IT SWEAR YOU IN.

7 5 2 2 0 CHAIR.

POINT OF ORDER.

PARDON ME? PARDON? POINT OF ORDER.

I CAN'T SEE.

CARRIE WADE.

UM, OKAY, I HAVE HER ON SCREEN.

FIRST THING WE'RE GONNA DO IS GET MS. WADE'S SWORN IN.

I CAN SEE MS. WADE.

UH, MS. WADE, CAN YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? MS. WADE, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

I'M SORRY.

PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

YOU SOLEMN SWEAR YOU SEE ME.

TESTIMONY WILL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD WILL BE THE TRUTH.

DON, YOU MAY NEED TO SPEAK UP.

MS. MS. WADE, YOU CAN HEAR ME.

I'LL LIKE HER IS MY NAME.

DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THE BOARD TODAY WILL BE TRUE? YES, I DO.

YES.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. ALBRIGHT, UH, SORRY.

YOU MAY PROCEED.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

AND AGAIN, WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL WORK THROUGH THIS QUICKLY.

MS. WADE, CAN YOU, UH, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS? GARY WADE.

8 5 2 2 BLUE BONNET DALLAS, SEVEN FIVE C2 Z.

AND WHAT DO YOU, HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED FOR COWBOYS? RED RIVER? SINCE 1993.

AND WHAT DO YOU DO FOR COWBOYS? RED RIVER, I HANDLE ALL LEGAL MATTERS.

INSURANCE MATTERS, HIGHER MANAGEMENT.

I'M IN CHARGE OF TRAINING.

UM, THAT'S .

CAN CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE, THE APPEAL BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT KIND OF NIGHTCLUB OR DANCE HALL IS COWBOYS? RED RIVER, IT'S THE COUNTRY AND WESTERN DANCE HALL.

WE HAVE, UM, WE'VE HAD NUMEROUS NATIONAL MUSICAL ACTS LIKE SIX WILLIE NELSON, KEITH URBAN, AND ON AND ON.

AND HOW LONG HAS COWBOYS RED RIVER BEEN OPERATING AT THIS LOCATION? SINCE 1996.

AND COWBOYS RED RIVER HAS A LIQUOR LICENSE, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UH, SO YOU'VE HAD IT SINCE 1996, EVER.

ANY ISSUES WITH THE TABC? WE HAVE HAD A, AND NO ISSUES WITH THE SIR.

OKAY.

YOU, YOU'VE NEVER HAD A LIQUOR LICENSE REVOKED OR SUSPENDED OR ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT, CORRECT? NO, SIR.

THAT'S CORRECT.

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE EMPLOYED BY COWBOYS? RED RIVER? UM, A

[00:25:01]

LITTLE 70 TO 75.

OKAY.

UH, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD THE, UM, OR FOR EXAMPLE, THE OPERATIONS, THE HOURS OF OPERATIONS AND WING COWBOYS? RED RIVER IS OPEN, UH, EXCUSE ME, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAYS, SATURDAY, UH, 5:00 PM AND, AND HOW LONG HAS COWBOY RED RIVER, UM, BEEN, BEEN STAYING OPEN PAST 2:00 AM UH, SINCE 1996.

WELL, CAN, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD WHAT HAPPENS AT COWBOYS RED RIVER AT 2:00 AM I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? , CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO THE BOARD WHAT HAPPENS AT COWBOYS? WE RIVER AT 2:00 AM UH, WELL AT 2:00 AM ALL THE DRINKS ARE PICKED UP AND EVERYTHING HAS TO BE PICKED UP, NO LATER TWO 15, AND WE SHUT DOWN ALL THE REGISTERS.

NO ONE IS ALLOWED IN YOU, AND WE ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO, TO LEAVE.

THEY ARE STILL DANCING.

WE OFFER FREE SOFT DRINKS, FREE WATER, AND FREE COFFEE.

UM, THAT'S ABOUT IT.

UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HEARD YOU RIGHT.

YOU SAID THE, THE CASH REGISTERS ARE CLOSED AT 2:00 AM CORRECT? YES.

THE MARKET IS ACTUALLY COUNTED OUT THE REGISTERS.

SO THERE'S NO, NO MORE TRANSACTIONS, NO, NO REVENUES THAT COME IN AFTER 2:00 AM CORRECT? CORRECT.

WE MAKE NO MONEY FROM TWO TO 30.

OKAY.

AND, AND YOU ONLY STAY OPEN TILL 3:00 AM IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

UM, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR POLICY, WHAT IS COWBOYS RED RIVER POLICY ON THE CONDUCT OF ITS EMPLOYEES AND SECURITY PERSONNEL AFTER 2:00 AM THE POLICY IS, I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT QUESTION.

WELL, WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR STAYING OPEN BETWEEN TWO AND 3:00 AM? WELL, IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE AND IT'S A SECURITY, UH, ON OUR BUSY NIGHTS, THURSDAYS AND SATURDAYS, IT'S NOT, UM, UNREAL TO THINK THAT THERE'S BETWEEN 800 AND A THOUSAND PEOPLE.

SO INSTEAD OF PUSHING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE OUT THE DOOR AT 2:00 AM WE GIVE 'EM THE EXTRA HOUR, STAGGER THEM OUT.

AND DO YOU THINK THAT HELPS WITH TRAFFIC? ABSOLUTELY.

OKAY.

UM, AS, AS FAR AS, UM, UH, IN THE YOU, DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE CITY'S EXHIBITS BEFORE THIS HEARING? YES.

AND, AND DID YOU NOTICE THAT THERE WAS, UM, SOME POLICE SERVICE CALLS LISTED IN, IN THEIR EXHIBITS? YES.

IN THE ONE YEAR PERIOD, I THINK THERE WAS 21 SERVICE CALLS LISTED, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, YES.

OKAY.

SO IN, IN A YEAR PERIOD, UM, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT A DANCEHALL WITH AN OCCUPANCY LIMIT OF NEARLY 2000, THIS IS A PRETTY LOW NUMBER OF INCIDENTS OVER A ONE YEAR PERIOD? YES.

AND NOT ALL THOSE INCIDENTS HAPPENED BECAUSE OF COWBOYS.

OKAY.

IS THERE ONE THAT HAPPENED ACROSS THE STREET AT FLAMINGO? YES.

DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU? NO.

UM, DID YOU ALSO NOTE THAT THERE WERE THREE ALLEGED ROBBERIES THAT TOOK PLACE AFTER 4:00 AM WOULD, WOULD COWBOYS RED RIVER BEEN OPEN FOR BUSINESS DURING ANY OF THOSE HOURS? NO.

YEAH, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US.

AND THERE WAS ALSO A MAJOR DISTURBANCE LISTED AT, ON A SUNDAY MORNING AT APPROXIMATELY 9:00 AM WOULD, UH, COWBOYS RED RIVER HAVE BEEN CLOSED FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME PRIOR TO THAT? YES.

COULD YOU, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE BOARD THE SECURITY MEASURES THAT COWBOYS RED RIVERS TAKES TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE CUSTOMERS AND THE EMPLOYEES AND THE NEARBY PROPERTIES? UH, WE HIRED $6 BLUE FOX, UH, FOR THURSDAYS AND SATURDAY, WEDNESDAYS AND FRIDAYS WE HAVE FIVE.

WE BOUGHT A BRAND NEW CHIEF, AND WE HAVE OFFICERS PATROLLING THE PROPERTY AND THE CHIEF AS WELL AS .

WE ALSO HAVE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT AT THE FRONT DOOR.

OKAY.

[00:30:01]

WE HAVE SECURITY INSIDE THAT WE HIRE.

AND HOW LONG DOES SECURITY STAY ON THE PREMISES? UNTIL EVERYBODY'S GOT HIRED.

OKAY.

UM, SO WHO, WHO, UH, WHO'S IN CHARGE OF FILING COWBOY'S ANNUAL LICENSE RENEWAL APPLICATIONS? UM, WE, WE, WE HIRED A GUY THAT'S BEEN DOING IT FOR, FOR 15 YEARS.

OKAY.

HE'S MIKE ROMAN.

OKAY.

AND IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU, YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO OPERATE LATE HOURS, UM, EVER SINCE THESE LICENSE HAVE BEEN FILED? YES, SIR.

YES, SIR.

UH, WHEN, WHEN DID YOU BECOME AWARE, WHEN DID COWBOYS RED RIVER BECOME AWARE? UM, THAT, UH, COWBOYS RED RIVER WAS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF SOME APARTMENTS? UH, WHEN I GOT THAT LETTER.

OKAY.

WERE YOU, UH, EVER TOLD PRIOR TO, WHEN YOU SAY THAT LETTER, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NOVEMBER 1ST, 2023 LETTER FROM, UH, THE CITY DENYING THE REQUEST FOR LATE HOURS PERMIT, CORRECT? CORRECT.

AND THEN THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF THE LETTERS OF OUR, OF OUR THREE DOCUMENTS, UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.

THAT'S ONE OF THE, UH, THREE LETTERS.

IT'S THE THIRD LETTER, UH, IN OUR PACKAGE THAT WE SUBMITTED.

UM, AND HAD YOU HAD, PRIOR TO RECEIVING THAT LETTER, HAD ANYONE EVER REQUIRED COWBOYS RED RIVER TO, UH, PAY FOR A SURVEY TO CONFIRM THAT THERE WERE APARTMENTS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET? NO.

OKAY.

UM, SO TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE LATE HOURS PERMITS ALWAYS BEEN APPROVED, CORRECT? YES.

SO, YOU KNOW, BASED ON YOUR UNDERSTANDING, YOUR TESTIMONY AND YOUR 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, ALMOST 30 YEARS EXPERIENCE AT THIS LOCATION, WOULD, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE LOCATION OF THIS DANCE HALL WITH A LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL AND NEARBY PROPERTIES? NO, NOT AT ALL.

AND, AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THIS, THIS IS NOT STAYING, HAVING A LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC SAFETY OR PUBLIC WELFARE.

I THINK IT HELPS WITH THE SECURITY OF ARTS.

RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

UM, THIS, THE, UH, THE LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT IMPACT OR DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUES OF NEARBY PROPERTIES OR THE QUALITY OF LIFE, WOULD IT? NO SHIELD.

UH, THAT'S YOUR TIME.

OKAY.

SORRY.

THERE'S SUCH FEEDBACK.

CAN, CAN, CAN I HAVE ONE AND A HALF MORE MINUTES? I GOT TWO QUESTIONS LEFT.

UH, I'M SORRY.

HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO YOU NEED? TWO MINUTES.

TWO.

UH, IS THERE, IS, UH, ANY BOARD MEMBERS OPPOSED TO AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES FOR THE APPELLANT? UH, ALL THOSE OPPOSED SAY NAY.

ALL RIGHT.

MR. SHIELDS WITH UNANIMOUS CONSENT, YOU MAY TAKE ANOTHER TWO MINUTES.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

UM, MS. WADE, THE, UM, THE GRANTING OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT, UM, WILL NOT DOWNGRADE THE PRO QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREAS, WOULD IT? NO.

AND, AND THE GRANTING OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT WOULD NOT ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OF BOURBON BLIGHT, WOULD IT? NO.

UM, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WOULD THE GRANTING OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION? NO.

OKAY.

SO, AND COWBOYS, RED RIVER HAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE AND ANY OTHER RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS? DALLAS? YES, ABSOLUTELY.

OKAY.

I'LL, I'LL PASS THE WITNESS.

THANK YOU.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

UH, MS. WILKINS, DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS AT THIS TIME? MR. CHAIR? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

UH, THEN, UH, IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO BEGIN YOUR PRESENTATION AND YOU HAVE, UH, 10 MINUTES.

IT, ALL RIGHT.

WELL, BEFORE I CALL MY FIRST WITNESS, I JUST WANT TO OFFER A, A FRIENDLY CORRECTION TO SOME OF THE TESTIMONY WE JUST HEARD.

OUR, UH, TAB NUMBER SIX DOES NOT SHOW 21 INCIDENTS AT THE PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE ADDING UP ALL THE NUMBERS TOGETHER.

THAT'S, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.

THERE WERE 13 CALLS FOR SERVICE.

OF THOSE 13 CALLS FOR SERVICE, SIX

[00:35:01]

RESULTED IN REPORTS BEING GENERATED.

SO THERE WERE SIX REPORTS, NOT 21, AND THEN TWO OF THOSE TWO WERE BETWEEN THE HOURS OF TWO AND 4:00 AM.

NOW, REGARDING THE TESTIMONY OF WHETHER THAT WAS RELATED TO THE BUSINESS OR NOT, I'M NOT CONVERTING ANY OF THAT, BUT I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THERE WERE 13 CALLS FOR SERVICE, NOT 21.

ALL RIGHT.

I WOULD LIKE TO CALL, UH, DETECTIVE LUCERO BROOKS.

YES.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

LUCERO BROOKS.

COULD YOU SPELL IT, PLEASE? YES.

FIRST NAME IS L-U-C-E-R-O.

LAST NAME BROOKS, B-R-O-O-K-S.

AND HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? UH, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

UM, AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? SEVEN YEARS.

AND WHAT UNIT ARE YOU CURRENTLY WORKING IN? I'M CURRENTLY ASSIGNED TO THE LICENSING VICE UNIT.

AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THAT UNIT? UH, FOR ABOUT A YEAR.

AND WHAT ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE VICE UNIT? UM, I'M RESPONSIBLE OF PROCESSING AND REVIEWING, UH, THE LICENSING APPLICATIONS FOR THE BUSINESSES, UM, ENSURING THAT ALL THE DOCUMENTS ARE ATTACHED TO THE APPLICATION IN ORDER FOR THEM TO, TO BE APPROVED OR DENIED.

SO, UM, DID YOU REVIEW THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS APPLICATION FROM COWBOYS RED RIVER? YES, I DID.

ALRIGHT.

SO TURNING TO TAB ONE IN THE CITY'S BINDER.

IS THIS, UH, CAN YOU BRIEFLY, BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE APPLICANT'S HISTORY? YES.

UM, WHEN I REVIEWED IT, UM, I FOUND THAT THEY APPLIED FOR THE DANCE HALL, LATE HOURS FOR BOTH BACK IN 20 20, 21, 22, AND YEAR OF 2023.

UM, A ZONING WAS COMPLETED IN 20TH OF SEPTEMBER OF 2021.

UM, A LAND SURVEY WAS COMPLETED OCTOBER OF 2021, AND THE DANCE HALL APPLICATIONS WERE APPROVED IN 20 20, 21, 22, AND 2023.

THE APPROVED LATE HOURS WERE APPROVED BACK IN 21 AND 22.

UH, THE RENEWAL APPLICATION WE RECEIVED LAST YEAR WAS OCTOBER OF 2023.

UH, THE DENIAL LETTER WAS SENT OUT NOVEMBER OF 2023.

UM, I GOT NOTIFICATION OF AN APPEAL REQUEST, UH, NOVEMBER OF 2023 AND THE PLA WAS SET FOR, FOR TODAY, AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE NOW.

UM, TURNING TO TAB TWO, IS THIS THE APPLICATION FOR THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT THAT YOU REVIEWED? YES, IT IS.

ALRIGHT.

AND WHY WERE THEY DENIED A LATE HOURS PERMIT? UH, THEY WERE WHEN WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENCE APARTMENT CONFERENCE.

ALRIGHT.

AND IS THAT, UH, DISCRETIONARY, DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY DISCRETION ON WHETHER TO ISSUE THAT DENIAL? NO, I DON'T.

ALRIGHT.

SO TURNING BACK TO TAB SIX.

DOES THIS TAB DOCUMENT CALLS FOR SERVICE AT COWBOYS RED RIVER? YES.

ALRIGHT.

AND HOW MANY CALLS FOR SERVICE WERE THERE OVER THE PAST YEAR? THE TOTAL WERE 13.

ALL RIGHT.

I MAY HAVE STEPPED ON YOUR TESTIMONY A LITTLE BIT, BUT GO.

UM, SO, UH, IS 13 AN UNUSUAL NUMBER OF CALLS FOR SERVICE AT A BUSINESS LIKE THIS? NO, IT'S ACTUALLY LOW.

OKAY.

AND WERE THERE ANY INCIDENTS DOCUMENTED FOR THIS ADDRESS? UH, THE ADDRESS THAT THEY USED FOR REPORTS WERE SIX.

OKAY.

UM, BUT AFTER READING SOME OF THE NARRATIVES, THEY DIDN'T ALL OCCUR, OCCUR AT THE LOCATION.

OKAY.

IS THAT A HIGH NUMBER FOR, FOR A CLUB OF THIS SIZE? NO.

OKAY.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BUSINESS CREATES A PUBLIC SAFETY PROBLEM BY OPERATING DURING LATE HOURS? NO.

ASIDE FROM THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION OF BEING WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENCE, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER REASON TO DENY THE APPLICANT'S DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT AT THIS TIME? NO, THERE ISN'T.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU, MR. WILKIN.

UM, AND I NOTE THAT, UH, I ERRED AND I DID NOT GIVE THE BOARD MEMBERS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS OF, UH, MS. WARD.

SO WE WILL COME BACK TO MS. WARD.

WE WILL, WE WILL.

MS. WADE, I APOLOGIZE MS. WADE.

UH, WE WILL COME BACK AND ALLOW THE BOARD TO ASK QUESTIONS OF MS. WADE AFTER THE BOARD MEMBERS, UH, ASK QUESTIONS OF THE DETECTIVE.

UM, SO WE WILL GO THROUGH THE LIST OF BOARD MEMBERS NOW, UH, FOR THREE MINUTES OF QUESTIONS TO THE DETECTIVE.

UH, MS. ARIANO,

[00:40:01]

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.

MS. WILLIS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO.

UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE? NO QUESTION.

UM, MR. JEFFERSON, NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

MR. JEFFS, UH, MR. HAYES, ONE QUICK QUESTION TO DETECTIVE BROOKS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE.

DETECTIVE, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY NUISANCE COMPLAINTS, UH, ORIGINATING FROM THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT'S JUST WITHIN A THOUSAND FOOT RADIUS? NO, WE ACTUALLY, UH, DIDN'T DO THAT RESEARCH, UH, FROM THAT PARTICULAR, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX.

SO I WOULDN'T BE AWARE UNLESS I, I I LOOK IT UP.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

THANK YOU.

MR. HAYES.

MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE? YES, SIR.

UH, MR. HAYES TOOK ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, BUT MY OTHER QUESTION IS, UH, DETECTIVE, HOW LONG WAS THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX BEEN THERE? THEY WERE BUILT, UM, AROUND THE TIME THAT THEY DID THE APPLICATION.

I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2021, I THINK IT BEFORE 2021.

I DON'T THINK THEY HAD BEEN THERE, UH, FAIRLY LONG.

SO IT WAS BUILT AROUND 2021.

OKAY.

SO ONE LAST QUESTION.

SO THEREFORE, THEY HAD, HAD ALREADY HAD A LATE PERMIT FOR 2020, CORRECT? YES.

THE 2020 PERMIT WAS ISSUED.

OKAY.

SO IT WAS ISSUED BEFORE THE COMPLEX WAS BUILT, CORRECT.

OR BEFORE, THANK YOU.

YEAH, I'M SORRY.

NO GO.

NOTHING.

SORRY.

DEFINITELY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

MR. QUINT.

UH, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

UH, MR. VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UM, I, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

DETECTIVE, UH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE THIS MORNING.

UM, ON YOUR TAB, ON THE CITY'S TAB ONE, UM, IT SAYS THEY APPLIED FOR A DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT IN 20 21, 22, AND 23.

UM, BUT THEY'VE BEEN OPERATING LATE HOURS SINCE 1996.

DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY NEVER HAD TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT PREVIOUSLY? A PERMIT WASN'T REQUIRED PREVIOUSLY? MM-HMM.

.

UM, WHAT HAPPENED WAS AN APPLICATION WAS MISSED BY A MONTH, SO WE HAD TO DO THE PREVIOUS DETECTIVE TO PROCESS THAT APPLICATION, DID A WHOLE NEW APPLICATION, UM, BECAUSE THAT MONTH WAS, WAS MISSED FROM RENEWING THE APPLICATION.

OKAY.

UM, AND SO WE HAVE THE, THE LAND SURVEY LETTER FROM THE CITY SURVEYOR THAT'S DATED OCTOBER, 2021.

UM, DO YOU KNOW WHY THE PERMIT WAS GRANTED IN 2022 WHEN THE CITY HAD THAT SURVEY THAT INDICATED, UH, THAT THERE WAS A RESIDENCE WITHIN 900 FEET? YOU MEANING WHY IT WAS APPROVED? THE, THE LATE HOURS? YES, MA'AM.

YES, DEFINITELY.

I, I, I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL YOU, UM, BECAUSE A DIFFERENT DETECTIVE PROCESSED THAT APPLICATION.

I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S, UM, BECAUSE THEY HAD HAD IN LATE HOURS BEFORE, UM, THAT THEY GRANTED IT.

I, I HONESTLY WOULDN'T KNOW THAT DETECTIVE IS NO LONGER HERE.

OKAY.

UM, AND LOOKING AT THE OVERHEAD VIEW, AND I'M TRYING TO FIND THE TAB, I THINK IT'S TAB FOUR, TAB THREE, THERE'S A BOAT, THERE'S AN OVERHEAD AERIAL VIEW, UH, THAT SHOWS THE PROPERTY LINES AND THE, THE RADIUS.

UH, WE HAVE THE APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT'S JUST TO THE SOUTH OF THE PROPERTY.

THERE'S ANOTHER, UH, PROPERTY THAT IS JUST TO THE WEST.

UM, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT BE APARTMENTS OR A HOTEL.

THAT'S AN EXTENDED SAY, HOTEL.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, MR. WILKINS.

AND THAT DOES NOT COUNT AS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY UNDER THE CITY CODE? NO, NO.

UM, RESIDENCE IS SINGLE FAMILY MULTIFAMILY,

[00:45:02]

DUPLEX.

ALRIGHT.

THANK YOU.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

UH, I'LL JUST QUICKLY GO THROUGH THE BOARD MEMBERS AGAIN FOR A SECOND ROUND IN CASE ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS.

KURT, I I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF DETECTIVE BROOKS.

OH, IT'S OKAY.

I JUST LET YOU KNOW FOR THE RECORD, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY TIME LAPSE.

OH, OH, I HAD TO HAVE TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS TOO.

OKAY.

UM, MS. ARENO, NO QUESTIONS.

UM, MS. WILLIS, VICE CHAIR TORRES.

MS. , MR. JEFFERSON, NO QUESTIONS.

JEFFS, MR. HAYES? NO QUESTIONS.

MR. QUINT.

MS. HIN QUESTIONS CHAIR.

THANK YOU MR. VERA.

NO QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS? UM, ALRIGHT, UH, BECAUSE WE SKIPPED IT, UH, PREVIOUSLY UNINTENTIONAL.

UM, AND I SEE THAT MS. WADE IS BACK ON AND WE'VE GOT HER VIDEO NOW.

WE'LL GO THROUGH IN CASE ANY BOARD MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR, UM, MS. WADE.

UM, MS. ARIANO, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. WADE? NO QUESTIONS FOR MS. WADE.

MS. WILLIS, NO QUESTIONS.

YOU, UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES.

MR. JEFFERSON? NO, NO QUESTIONS.

JEFFS NO QUESTIONS? OKAY.

NO QUESTIONS.

CHAIR? NO QUESTIONS CHAIR.

MR. I HAVE NO QUESTIONS.

ALRIGHT.

UH, AND, UH, MR. WILKINS, IS THAT ALL YOU HAVE FOR YOUR PRESENTATION? ALRIGHT, THEN THE BOARD WILL NOW HEAR BRIEF UNDER FIVE MINUTES.

UH, CLOSING STATEMENT.

UH, MR. SHIELDS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BEGIN? UH, THANK YOU.

UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS MORNING.

UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, UH, I THINK YOU'VE, YOU'VE HEARD THE EVIDENCE SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR THAT, UH, UH, THE TESTIMONY SHOWS THAT WE'VE MET THE REQUIREMENTS, UH, FOR AN EXEMPTION FROM THE LATE HOURS PERMIT.

I, I WON'T BELABOR IT AND WALK THROUGH THE TESTIMONY ANY FURTHER.

THERE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ANY QUESTIONS.

SO, UM, I, I, AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND WE WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU FIND THAT THIS EXEMPTION FOR LATE HOURS PERMIT BE GRANTED.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU MR. SHIELD.

MR. WILKINS, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES FOR CLOSING STATEMENT.

WELL, TO SUMMARIZE THE, THE CITY'S TESTIMONY, UM, OF FOUR ELEMENTS THAT NEED TO, TO BE SHOWN TO GRANT AN EXCEPTION TO THE LATE HOURS LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION, UM, THE CITY HAS PROVIDED TESTIMONY THAT THE LATE HOURS PERMIT WILL NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON, UH, NEARBY PROPERTY BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC SAFETY OR WELFARE.

UH, APPELLANT HAS PROVIDED EVIDENCE, UH, THAT IT WON'T DOWNGRADE PROPERTY VALUE, UH, OR ENCOURAGED DEVELOPMENT OF URBAN BLIGHT.

UH, CITY DOES NOT CONTROVERT THAT.

NUMBER THREE, UH, THE, THEY PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT IT WON'T BE CONTRARY TO A PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OR INTERFERE WITH EFFORTS OF URBAN RENEWAL.

CITY IS NOT CO CONVERTING THAT, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A LONG HISTORY OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE REST OF THE DANCE HALL CHAPTER, WHICH IS PRONG NUMBER FOUR, CITY RESTS.

THANK YOU, UH, MR. WILKINS FOR CONCISELY AND ELOQUENTLY, UH, STATING THOSE POINTS.

UM, WE WILL NOW, UH, MOVE ON TO BOARD DISCUSSION AND MOTION.

IS THERE A MOTION FROM THE BOARD REGARDING THE DENIAL OF A DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT FOR COWBOYS? RED RIVER? YOU OVERTURNED THE DENIAL, UH, MOTION BY MR. HAYES TO REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.

IS THERE A SECOND? THANK YOU.

SECOND CORRECTING MY WORDING.

I, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T TATTOO WITH THE SECOND WAS THAT MR. THANK YOU FOR CORRECTING MY WORDING AND I'M FINE WITH YOUR CORRECTION.

AH, OKAY.

THANK YOU.

SECOND ON MOTION, MR. JEFFERSON?

[00:50:01]

YES.

THANK YOU.

UH, AND, UH, NOW MR. HAYES, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR MOTION? I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARY.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

UH, MR. JEFFERSON, YOU'RE THE SECOND.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? NO, THANK YOU.

ALRIGHT.

IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, UH, IN FAVOR OR ON THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, UH, SINCE THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, WE WILL PROCEED WITH THE VOTE.

UH, THE MOTION BY MR. HAYES, SECONDED BY MR. JEFFERSON IS TO REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY.

MOTION PASSES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE.

UM, WE, UH, NOW, UH, WE'VE NOW GOT A SECOND HEARING, UH, WHICH IS THANK YOU BEHALF OF HICKORY TRAIL DE HOLDINGS, LLC, UH, THAT IS APPEALING THE FINAL DETERMINATION AS A INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY UNDER SECTION 27 DASH 51 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.

UM, WE WILL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS PRIOR TO THAT HEARING.

UH, AND WHEN WE RETURN VICE CHAIR TOEZ WILL, UH, CHAIR THE MEETING.

UH, WE WILL BE BACK AT 9 51.

THAT'S RIGHT.

[00:57:59]

AUDIO TEST, TESTING, TESTING.

NO, IT'S VERY, VERY LOW TESTING.

YES, THAT, THAT WAS BETTER.

BUT IT'S STILL KIND OF MUFFLED A LITTLE BIT.

YEAH.

ARE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE THIS PROBLEM BEFORE WE BEGIN AGAIN.

AND I APOLOGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING EVERYBODY.

UM, I, WE DO HAVE ONE WITNESS, I BELIEVE WHO HAS NOT RECEIVED THE WEBEX LINK.

UM, I'M HAPPY TO RECIRCULATE AN EMAIL ADDRESS FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL IF THAT'S HELPFUL.

AND, AND WHO IS THAT INDIVIDUAL? MS. DEAN IKA.

DEAN, CAN YOU, MR. SINGAPORE, CAN YOU TELL ME THAT NAME AGAIN THAT YOU SAID DEAN? DEAN IS THE LAST NAME.

UM, SPELL FIRST NAME IS S-H-A-N-E-Q-U-I-A.

QUA LAST NAME DEAN.

WE DO HAVE HER EMAIL ADDRESS, SO WE WILL RESEND IT TO HER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OKAY.

OKAY.

THAT INVITATION HAS BEEN SENT.

AND DONNA, CAN YOU GIVE ME ANOTHER AUDIO CHECK THERE IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM?

[01:00:04]

YES, JESSIE.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

MS. SHIN, CAN YOU, UM, GIVE ME A QUICK TEST? YEAH, THAT'S, SEE THAT'S RIO VIVO.

OKAY, DONNA, LET'S GET ANOTHER TEST.

OR, OR MISS SHIN OR MISS FOREZ TEST ONE MORE TIME.

TESTING TEST.

THAT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

OKAY.

OH, SO I'LL TAKE BACK TO .

UM, YES.

SO WE WERE JUST WAITING ON MR. .

I AM CALLING MS. DEAN AS AN ASIDE TO FOLLOW UP ON THE EMAIL LINK SENT AND WE'LL BE BACK.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE A NUMBER, UM, OR MEETING IDENTIFICATION OF SOME KIND FROM MS. DEAN TO INPUT TO JOIN THE WEBEX? NO, IT WOULD, SHE WOULD JUST SIMPLY NEED TO ACCESS THE INVITATION THAT WAS SENT HER EMAIL AND SELECT THE BUTTON THAT'S IN THE INVITATION THAT SAYS JOIN WEBINAR.

OKAY.

ONE SECOND.

[01:05:55]

AND THEN MR. SPORA, ARE WE EXPECTING A LAURA VERNIA? YES, MA'AM.

SHE'S MY CO-COUNSEL.

OKAY.

BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THAT SHE'S ON EITHER.

UM, SHE MAY NOT BE.

UM, SHE MAY BE ACTUALLY VIEWING, I APOLOGIZE FROM, FROM THE PUBLIC LINK, BUT, UM, THAT'S WHO IS ASSOCIATED WITH ME.

UM, MS. DEAN IS TRYING TO ACCESS THIS VIA PHONE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MATTERS WITH RESPECT TO THE WEBEX LINK THAT WAS SENT OUT.

NO, IT WOULD BE THE SAME PROCESS.

SHE WOULD JUST SELECT THE, JOIN THE GREEN JOIN BUTTON THAT'S IN THE INVITATION, UM, THAT WAS SENT TO HER.

OKAY.

ONE SECOND.

AND THEN, UM, MR. HERNANDEZ, ARE WE EXPECTING JOHN ROBERTS? UM, NO, UH, NO, YOUR HONOR.

OR I'M SORRY, , UH, NO, THAT'S OKAY.

TRACY REEVES IS APPEARING IN HIS DEBT 'CAUSE UH, DUE TO UNFORESEEN CIRCUMSTANCES ON OUR END, SO.

OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

SO, BUT YES, TRACY REEVES WILL BE, YEAH, I AM LOOKING AT MS. DEAN'S, UM, SHE'S SHARING YOUR SCREEN WITH ME TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO LOG IN AND THE EMAIL ADDRESS THAT'S LISTED AS THE ONE THAT WE PROVIDED AND SHE GOT THE INVITATION, WHICH SHE HITS NEXT,

[01:10:01]

IT SAYS WE CAN'T FIND YOUR ACCOUNT ON THE HOST SITE, TRY A DIFFERENT EMAIL ADDRESS OR JOIN AS AN ATTENDEE.

OKAY.

UM, CAN YOU, BECAUSE IT, THE EMAIL ADDRESS THAT SHE PROVIDED TO US OR THAT YOU ALL PROVIDED TO US WITH, SO, AND IT'S A YAHOO EMAIL ADDRESS.

SO UNLESS I'M, I'M SORRY, YOU BROKE UP THERE.

WHAT WAS THAT? BUT YOU'RE INDICATING SHE DID RECEIVE THE INVITATION, CORRECT? YES.

OKAY.

THEN SHE MAY NEED TO, WHEN SHE'S PLUGGING IN HER EMAIL ADDRESS, IF SHE'S DOING THAT, UM, SHE'LL NEED TO MAKE SURE SHE'S PLUGGING IT IN CORRECTLY BECAUSE IF, IF IT IS PROMPTING HER THAT THE EMAIL ADDRESS IS INCORRECT, IT'S BECAUSE OF HOW SHE'S TYPING IT IN.

OKAY.

DO YOU THINK YOU COULD RE TRY TO RETYPE IN YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND THEN HIT NEXT? YEAH, I TRIED THAT, BUT I CAN DO IT AGAIN.

YEAH, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

THANK YOU.

YEAH, YOU MEAN THE SAME THING? YEAH, IT'S SAYING, IT'S SAYING THE SAME THING FOR HER AND I'M WATCHING HER TYPE IT IN ON HER PHONE AND IT'S MATCHING UP TO THE EMAIL ADDRESS WHERE SHE RECEIVED THE INVITATION.

YEAH.

THE, THE ONLY WAY TO ACCESS THE MEETING IS THROUGH THE LINK OR THROUGH THE AGENDA.

SHE CAN TRY THE LINK THAT'S ON THE AGENDA, UM, AND THEN SHE WOULD POPULATE AS AN ATTENDEE AND THEN I CAN MOVE HER OVER.

OKAY.

LET ME, LET ME TRY THAT.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PUBLIC POSTING AGENDA.

YOU CAN ACCESS THE LINK THERE AND THEN FOLLOW THE PROMPT AND THEN I CAN SEE IF SHE GETS IN AS AN ATTENDEE.

UM, AND THEN I CAN MOVE HER OVER.

OKAY.

LET ME, LET ME TRY THAT.

IT'S ASKING FOR A PANEL AS A PASSWORD.

YEAH, WE CAN GIVE THAT FOR TRY CAPITAL P AS IN PAUL, L AS IN LAURA, A AS IN APPLE, AND THEN B AS IN BOB, ALL CAP PLA AND THEN 2024.

THAT SHOULD ALSO BE IN THE INVITATION.

PLA, UH, IT SHOULD BE IN THE INVITATION.

I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I HAVE, IT'S THE WEBEX INVITATION THAT SHE COULD HAVE RECEIVED.

AND DID YOU SAY IT'S P-L-A-B-O-B OR CAPS? PLA BLAB PLAB ALL CAPS UNDERSCORE 2024.

GOT IT.

[01:15:20]

OKAY.

SO SHE IS ON, CAN CAN WE GET HER TO TURN ON HER MICROPHONE AND HER CAMERA AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE SHE HAS ACCESS TO IT, SO SHE MAY NEED TO USE THE LITTLE ARROWS THAT ARE ON THE MICROPHONE BUTTON AND ON THE CAMERA BUTTON.

AND UM, IT'S GONNA GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL SETTINGS AND YOU CAN JUST GO TO AUDIO SETTINGS AND THEN MANIPULATE HER SPEAKER AND HER MICROPHONE.

GOT IT.

THANK YOU.

YOU HAVE A MICROPHONE, SO IF SHE CAN UNMUTE HERSELF AND THEN WE'LL ALSO NEED HER TO DO HER CAMERA BUTTON.

WE CAN DO A QUICK TEST.

WE CAN, UM, CAN YOU TURN ON YOUR CAMERA MS. DEAN CAMERA GOT MY VIDEO AND THERE YOU ARE.

PERFECT.

OKAY.

SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.

WE DO THANK YOU NOW.

OKAY.

AND WE'RE GOOD.

WE'RE GOOD.

GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY.

I HOPE EVERYBODY CAN HEAR ME, BUT IF NOT, PLEASE LET US KNOW.

UM, WE ARE NOW READY TO GO ON RECORD FOR THE SECOND APPEAL HEARING OF THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.

IT IS NOW 10 13 ON THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST, 2024.

AT THIS TIME I WILL DO A ROLL CALL IF PRESENT.

PLEASE STAY HERE.

BEN NIK PRESENT FLORE AND PRESENT KARINA ANO.

CARMEN ALA ANGELA WILLIS.

PRESENT STEVEN JEFF PRESENT.

JACK HAYES.

PRESENT.

ROBERT QUIN.

PRESENT.

JENNIFER SIN PRESENT.

VERA, ABSENT FROM THIS HEARING ARE MS. CARMEN AALA AND RICHARD .

WE DO HAVE A QUORUM AT THIS POINT AND WE WILL PROCEED WITH THE HEARING POINT OF ORDER.

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT SEES MS. ARIANO? UH, SHE'S ON, UH, YEAH, SHE'S ON SCREEN.

MS. ARIANO? YEAH.

I THOUGHT YOU SAID SHE WAS ABSENT FROM THE HEARING, MA'AM.

OH, SORRY.

THAT WAS HER SECOND.

UH, ABSENT FROM THIS HEARING ARE CARMEN AYALA AND RICHARD ILLA.

OKAY.

[01:20:12]

NO.

OKAY.

ALSO PRESENT TODAY, UH, THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE OR REPRESENTATIVE.

WHO DO WE HAVE FOR THE APPELLANT? MR. SINGAPORE.

OH, APPELLANT.

HI, KARTHIK SINGAPORE ON BEHALF OF THE APPELLANT IN THIS APPEAL.

THANK YOU.

UH, YOUR WITNESS? YES, WE, WE HAVE, UM, LESLIE BANG SIMON AND MS. SHA INE AS WELL.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

AND THE CITY ATTORNEY THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE A LITTLE AUDIO BREAKUP.

OKAY.

SORRY.

UM, WHO DO WE HAVE FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE PRESENT TODAY? UH, I BELIEVE YOU'RE ASKING WHO'S PRESENT FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, UH, ALEX HERNANDEZ, UH, AND MY CO-COUNSEL.

THIS IS TRACY REEVES.

GOOD MORNING, HERNANDEZ? YES.

CAN YOU HEAR ME? WE CAN HEAR YOU.

IT'S JUST A BIT MUFFLED.

I DON'T KNOW IF MR. SINGAPORE IS HAVING THE SAME ISSUE THAT WE ARE WITH, UH, THE MUFFLING.

THE AUDIO IS KIND OF MUFFLED.

OKAY.

I'M GONNA TRY TO SPEAK LOUDER ON MY END.

OKAY, MR. EZ, FOR THE CITY WITNESSES, UH, WITNESSES FOR THE CITY WOULD BE DETECTIVE SONYA HAYNES.

OKAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THE, THE NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS IS TO HEAR THE APPEAL REQUEST OF HICKORY TRAIL DE HOLDINGS, LLC APPEALING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY UNDER SECTION 27 DASH 51 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THIS HEARING IS ON THE APPELLANT AT THIS TIME.

ANY WITNESSES WHO WISH TO TESTIFY IN THIS HEARING, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

SO YOU MAY BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.

I DO BELIEVE WE'VE NOT SWORN IN, UM, ALL THE WITNESSES.

SO MS. DETECTIVE, DETECTIVE AND, UM, LESLIE AND MRS. DEAN? YES.

MS. , DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU GIVE FOR TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH? I DO.

MS. AND MS. I DO THANK SUMMON.

I DO.

JUST VERY QUICKLY, IS THE AUDIO BETTER? THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF ECHO, BUT YEAH, IT SOUNDS BETTER.

[01:25:10]

HICKORY TRAILS E HOLDINGS.

LLC.

I'M SORRY THAT YES, NO WORRIES.

FOR THE RECORD, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU ANTICIPATE NEEDING TO PRESENT THE CASE FOR HICKORY TRAILS? DID E HOLDING LLCI WOULD SAY 45 MINUTES WITH THE HOPES THAT I GIVE SOME TIME BACK.

UM, OKAY.

THANK YOU.

FOR THE RECORD, HOW MUCH TIME DOES THE CITY NEED TO PRESENT ITS CASE? I BELIEVE THAT 30 MINUTES SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT, NOT INCLUDING THE OPENING AND CLOSING.

OF COURSE.

JUST QUESTIONING.

WE CROSSED.

OKAY.

SO WOULD BOTH OF YOU BE OKAY WITH 30 MINUTES EACH? IS THAT INCLUSIVE OF OPENING AND CLOSING? THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE OPENING AND CLOSING, BUT IT DOES INCLUDE YOU QUESTIONING, UM, THE CITY'S WITNESSES.

YEAH, THAT'S FINE.

NOT INCLUSIVE.

OPENING CLOSING IS FINE.

GREAT, GREAT, GREAT.

MADAM CHAIR, MAY I MAKE A TECHNICAL SUGGESTION? YES.

UM, WOULD THE PEOPLE IN THE ACTUAL ROOM MUTE THEIR MICS WHEN ANYBODY ELSE IS TALKING BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING LOTS OF FEEDBACK.

THAT'S GARBLING EVERYTHING.

THANK YOU MR. HAY.

WE ARE WORKING ON IT.

UM, AT THIS MOMENT, BOARD HAS ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE THE DOCUMENTS PRESENTED BY THE APPELLANT HICKORY TRAILS DE HOLDINGS AND HAS NUMBERED THEM.

THEY ARE EXHIBITS ONE AND TWO.

THE BOARD HAS ALSO ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE THE DOCUMENTS PRESENTED BY THE CITY AND HAS NUMBERED THEM.

THEY ARE EXHIBIT ONE, WE'LL MOVE NOW WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.

WOULD THE CITY ATTORNEY PLEASE READ THE RELEVANT ORDINANCE? PRESUME THE HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY IF THE PROPERTY IS DECIDED OF FIVE OR MORE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES WITHIN 365 DAYS, RESULTING IN EITHER A REPORT OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY DOCUMENTING AN INVESTIGATION OF AN AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY OR LAW OR ENFORCEMENT ACTION AGAINST ANY PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY AND AT WHICH PERSONS HAVE HISTORICALLY COMMITTED AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ACCORDING TO RECENT CRIME DATA.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

NOW WE'LL MOVE TO OPENING STATEMENTS.

MR. SINGAPORE, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BEGIN WITH A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENT? IF SO, YOU HAVE 10 MINUTES.

THANK YOU.

UM, YES, I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED OR I SHOULD HAVE ASKED MAY I PROCEED? YES, GO AHEAD.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

AND GOOD MORNING TO THE BOARD.

UM, AND MY, UM, YOU KNOW, COLLEAGUES, MR. HERNANDEZ, MS. REEMS, AND I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S PATIENCE WHILE WE KIND OF WORK THROUGH SOME OF THESE TECHNICAL ISSUES THIS MORNING.

UM, WE'RE HERE ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER OF THE HICKORY TRAILS, UH, APARTMENTS.

THE APARTMENTS ARE LOCATED ABOUT 20 MINUTES SOUTH OF DOWNTOWN DALLAS.

UM, AND IT'S A PRETTY LARGE PROPERTY.

IT'S 25 ACRES, WHICH, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD HAS NOW ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE THE MATERIALS WE'VE SUBMITTED, WHICH REFLECT THAT IT IS ABOUT 250 UNITS OVER 30 BUILDINGS, UM, AND IS BORDERED BY LARGELY UNINHABITED AND UNDEVELOPED FIELDS.

THE PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY IN FEBRUARY OF 2022.

AND IT WAS PREVIOUSLY, IT WAS ORIGINALLY CONSTRUCTED IN 2000.

NOW I KNOW BOTH, UM, FROM ANY PROPERTY OWNER'S PERSPECTIVE AND FROM MANY OF THE APPEALS, THIS BOARD HAS HEARD THERE'S FRUSTRATIONS AND, AND, UM, EVIDENCE HEARD AND PROVIDED WITH RESPECT TO OTHER ANCILLARY ISSUES THAT MAY CAUSE THE CRIMES TO OCCUR.

RESPONSES OF DPD AND 9 1 1, SO ON AND SO FORTH POST,

[01:30:01]

UH, YOU KNOW, AAT MEASURES TAKEN DURING THE 365 DAY PERIOD LOOK PROVIDED IN THE NOTICE.

UM, ALL THAT SAID, I AM SURE I ECHO THE SENTIMENTS OF OUR CLIENTS IN THAT SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE ISSUES THEY FEEL ARE PERTINENT.

BUT WE WILL RESPECT THE BOARD'S TIME AND THE STANDARD OF REVIEW BEFORE THE BOARD, WHICH WILL LOOK AT A 365 DAY PERIOD BETWEEN SEPTEMBER OF 2022 AND AUGUST OF 2023.

AND IN PARTICULAR THE CRIMES LISTED IN THE CITY'S HCP NOTICE THAT WAS TENDERED TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

AND THE FINAL DESIGNATION FROM SEPTEMBER, I BELIEVE, OF THIS YEAR.

NOW I RECOGNIZE THIS WAS INTRODUCED THAT THE BURDEN OF PROOF HERE, IT RESTS ON THE APPELLATE IN THIS APPEAL TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION THAT THE HCP DESIGNATION WAS FINAL.

NOW, WHILE WE RECOGNIZE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION, WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD IN ITS CAPACITY AS THE REVIEWING BOARD OF THIS DECISION TO ENSURE THAT THE PRESUMPTION ITSELF HAS BEEN MET.

THAT BEING THE CITY'S BURDEN TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THIS IS A PROPERTY WHERE FIVE AAT CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES OCCURRED WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD AND WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPERTY OWNER AND THIS PROPERTY IS A SITE OF A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.

AND THESE OWNERS ARE THE TYPE OF OWNERS AND OPERATORS WHO FOSTER THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY ON THEIR PROPERTY.

WE RECOGNIZE FULLY THAT ANY CRIME THOSE LISTED AND THOSE NOT LISTED IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, NOT OKAY WITH SOCIETY, NOT OKAY WITH PROPERTY OWNERS AND NOT OKAY WITH TENANTS.

HOWEVER, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS HEARING'S ABOUT.

IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING DISMISSIVE TO OF ANY CRIMES.

IT'S TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THESE ARE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT FOSTERED THIS DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THEIR PROPERTY.

AND THE CODE ITSELF RECOGNIZES THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES AND OCCURRENCES IN WHICH THE PROPERTY OWNER IS NOT HELD SUBJECT TO THIS ORDINANCE AS AN DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY FOR CRIMES THAT OCCUR OUTSIDE OF THE PURVIEW OR CONTROL EXPRESSLY PROVIDED IN THE CODE IS CRIMES OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, WHICH DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS THE HCP DESIGNATION AS WELL.

THE REFERENCE TO THE, UH, CHAPTER 1 25 PUBLIC NUISANCE STATE STATUTE IS THE EXCLUSIVE BODY AND LIST OF AAT CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES, WHICH CAN COUNT TOWARDS THIS FIVE CRIME DESIGNATION WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD.

FROM THE WITNESSES YOU WILL HEAR FROM, UH, MS. DEAN WHO IS A LEASING AGENT AT THE PROPERTY AS WELL AS MS. BAIN SIMONIC, WHO IS, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OWNERSHIP GROUP FOR THIS PROPERTY.

WE'VE PROVIDED IN OUR WRITTEN STATEMENT, WHICH HAS NOW BEEN ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE AN OUTLINE OF CERTAIN INCIDENTS IDENTIFIED BY INCIDENT REPORTS, WHICH WE BELIEVE DEMONSTRATE THAT THE REQUISITE FIVE CRIMES HAVE NOT BEEN MET.

AND I WILL JUST GO AHEAD AND GROUP THE REASONS PROVIDED, UH, WHICH WILL BE ELABORATED OF COURSE DURING THE COURSE OF THE TESTIMONY, BUT THAT LARGELY BEING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OCCURRENCES AS WELL AS SHOTS FIRED OR GUNFIRE EMANATING FROM LOCATIONS OFF THE PROPERTY AND ENTERING ONTO THE PROPERTY WHERE THE TENANTS CURRENTLY RESIDE.

THE CODE UNDER CHAPTER 27 48 HAS TWO DISTINCT WAYS TO ESTABLISH BEATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT CAN COUNT TOWARDS THIS DESIGNATION.

THE FIRST OF COURSE BEING IF THERE'S A REPORT OF AN INVESTIGATION OF AN DEBATABLE ACTIVITY UPBRINGING ON THE PROPERTY.

SECOND, WHICH IS ENFORCEMENT ACTION IF THE VICTIM LIVES ON THE PROPERTY.

TAKING THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS ALONG WITH THE EXPRESSLY DEFINED DEBATABLE CRIMES THAT CAN COUNT TOWARDS DESIGNATION AND LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANCE OF THESE INCIDENT REPORTS AND NOT SIMPLY WHAT THE CODE THAT WAS ENTERED BY THE REPORTING OFFICER WAS.

WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE FIVE CRIMES HAVE BEEN MET OR THE REQUISITE FIVE CRIMES WITHIN A 365 DAY PERIOD HAVE BEEN MET.

AND WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO LOOK PAST THE TITLE OF SOME OF THESE INCIDENT INCIDENT REPORTS OR GENERAL CHARACTERIZATION OF THESE GENERAL OF THESE INCIDENT REPORTS AND THE SUBSTANCE OF THE REPORTS THEMSELVES AS TO WHAT THE COMPLAINANT REPORTED TO THE REPORTING OFFICER AND WHAT THE REPORTING OFFICER DOCUMENTED BY WAY OF WHO THE SUSPECTS ARE, THEIR PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIPS, THE LOCATION OF THE ASSAILANT OR PERSON WHO FIRED THE GUNSHOTS, WHICH ARE A LOT OF THE, UH, DEBATABLE CRIMES THAT ARE LISTED AND MAKE THAT DETERMINATION AND TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE PROPER BOUNDARIES AND PROTECTIONS ON THIS DESIGNATION FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE CITY.

[01:35:01]

AND THAT'S EXACTLY HOW THE CODE IS WRITTEN.

AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE, TO THE BOARD'S, UH, DECISION.

AND WE APPRECIATE THE BOARD'S TIME, UH, WITH US THIS MORNING.

WE ARE NOW READY TO BEGIN.

NO, I'M SORRY.

'CAUSE THE CITY HAVE A BRIEF STATEMENT.

IF SO, YOU HAVE 10 MINUTES.

THANK YOU.

UM, THANK YOU.

AND WE HAVE A POWERPOINT TO GO ALONG WITH OUR OPENING STATEMENT AS WELL.

SO MAY THE CITY GO AHEAD AND BEGIN.

MR. OKAY, GREAT.

SO EVERYONE AGREES THAT REDUCING CRIME IMPROVES OUR LIVES BY MAKING OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER AND BETTER PLACES TO LIVE.

AND THE STATE OF TEXAS ALSO AGREED, IN FACT, TEXAS DETERMINED THAT CRIME IS TOO BIG OF AN ISSUE TO SIMPLY BE ADDRESSED SOLELY BY POLICING AGENCIES.

THUS CHAPTER 1 25 WAS ENACTED TO ENSURE THAT PROPERTY OWNERS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO DECREASE THEIR CRIME TO DECREASE CRIME ON THEIR PROPERTY.

THE CITY OF DALLAS HAS A SIMILAR PROVISION, BUT IT'S ONE THAT REQUIRES A PLACARD AND A FEE WITH THE HOPE OF ENCOURAGING PROPERTY OWNERS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND TO TAKE ACTION AND TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO DECREASE CRIME IF IT EVEN GETS TO THAT LEVEL.

AND THEY DO SUCH IN THIS ORDINANCE TO IMPROVE AND PROTECT NOT ONLY THE, THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS OR THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS, BUT ALSO, UM, TO RECOVER RESOURCES THAT DPD HAS EXPENDED IN POLICING PROBLEMATIC AREAS.

YOU'VE HEARD, AND WE, WE'LL PROBABLY CONTINUE TO HEAR, CONTINUE TO HEAR ARGUMENTS FROM THE APPELLANT THAT SOME OF THESE CRIMES SHOULDN'T BE COUNTED.

AND THEY'LL DISCUSS WHAT IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING.

AND YOU MAY HEAR ARGUMENTS THAT THE OWNERS DID THEIR PART AND TOOK REASONABLE MEASURES AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN DELAYS.

THE CITY NEEDS TO DO ITS PART AND WE HAVE DPD HAS DONE ITS PART.

BUT HERE'S THE KEY FOLKS.

WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE THE POINT OF SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023 WHEN DPD HAD TO INTERVENE BY TELLING THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT CRIME WAS A PROBLEM ON THEIR PROPERTY THROUGH A WRITTEN LETTER THAT THEY CALLED THE HCP OR THE INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY PRELIMINARY DESIGNATION.

AND REMEMBER, DPD HAS OUT BEEN OUT THERE BEFORE TO TALK WITH MANAGEMENT PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023.

SO THIS ISN'T A GOTCHA SCENARIO.

YOU'LL HEAR EVIDENCE FROM DETECTIVE HAYNES THAT FROM AUGUST 29TH, 2022 UNTIL AUGUST 29TH, 2023, THERE WERE 13 AAT OFFENSES THAT OCCURRED AT THE PROPERTY, INCLUDING A SEXUAL ASSAULT OR AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS WITH A DEADLY WEAPON, TWO ROBBERIES AND NUMEROUS DEADLY CONDUCT INCIDENTS OF DISCHARGING FIREARMS. THE CITY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BEG OR MINE A PROPERTY TO PROTECT THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

IF YOU KNOW THERE'S A PROBLEM AND THE PROBLEM IS INCREASING OR CONTINUES TO REMAIN A PROBLEM, THEN IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE ACTION.

BUT WHAT YOU WON'T HEAR IS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER TACKLED THIS CRIME ISSUE WITHOUT THE PROMPTING FROM THE CITY AND TO WITH DPD.

YOU WON'T HEAR THAT THEY WERE PROACTIVE WITHOUT THAT PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023 THAT THEY WERE TACKLING THESE, UM, THESE ISSUES AFTER THE CITY AND DPD INTERVENED ON SEPTEMBER 13TH, THE INITIAL HCP LETTER WAS ISSUED.

AND THEY TOOK SOME, SOME ACTIONS, BUT REMEMBER THAT'S TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES AND, AND LIMITS.

THIS BOARD'S REVIEW TO UP TO THE POINT OF SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023 WHEN THAT LETTER WAS ISSUED, WHAT HAD THE PROPERTY OWNERS DID DONE UP TO THAT POINT? EVIDENCE OF CRIME PREVENTION MEASURES IMPLEMENTED AFTER THE OWNER RECEIVED THE LETTER SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED IN EVALUATING WHETHER THE OWNER PRESENTED SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE.

AND WHEN THERE WAS THE COURT MEETING IN OCTOBER, 2023, UM, THEY SUBSEQUENTLY, DUE TO TECHNICAL ISSUES AT, UH, DPDS HEADQUARTERS, THEY, YOU KNOW, UH, MAILED THE PIECES OF EV EVIDENCE THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT OR EMAILED MY APOLOGIES.

AND IT WAS UNFORTUNATELY INSUFFICIENT TO PROVE THAT UP TO SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2023, THEY HAD ADDRESSED THE ISSUES ON

[01:40:01]

THE PROPERTY THAT CONTRIBUTED TO CRIMINAL HABITUAL, UH, HABITUAL CRIME.

AND SO THE