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[00:00:01]

GOOD AFTERNOON,

[Landmark Commission Meeting on February 5, 2024.]

EVERYBODY.

UH, WELCOME TO THE, UH, MEETING OF THE DALLAS LANDMARK COMMISSION.

IT IS FEBRUARY 5TH, IT'S 1 0 1, AND WE'RE CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER.

I, UM, I'M THE CHAIR, EVELYN MONTGOMERY.

OUR VICE CHAIR IS COURTNEY SP, AND WE HAVE A GENEROUS QUORUM OF COMMISSIONERS PRESENT WITH US TODAY IN PERSON AND ONLINE.

SO WE WILL BEGIN BY HAVING ELAINE, UH, DO A ROLL CALL OF ALL COMMISSIONERS.

DISTRICT ONE, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, PRESENT, DISTRICT TWO.

COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY PRESENT, DISTRICT THREE.

COMMISSIONER FOGLEMAN.

PRESENT, DISTRICT FOUR.

COMMISSIONER TAYLOR.

PRESENT, DISTRICT FIVE.

COMMISSIONER OFFIT.

PRESENT? DISTRICT SIX.

COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA.

PRESENT? DISTRICT EIGHT.

COMMISSIONER ACY.

DISTRICT NINE.

COMMISSIONER RENO.

PRESENT? DISTRICT 11 KI COMMISSIONER GIBSON.

PRESENT? DISTRICT 12.

COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER.

PRESENT? DISTRICT 13.

COMMISSIONER PRETI.

PRESENT.

DISTRICT 14.

COMMISSIONER.

GUESS PRESENT.

COMMISSIONER ANDERSON PRESENT.

AND COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS PRESENT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, ELAINE.

UM, FIRST OFF, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC SPEAKERS HERE ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN ONE OF THE CASES THAT WE'RE HEARING? JUST WANTED TO TALK TO US.

NO ONE EVER DOES.

ALL RIGHTY, .

ALL RIGHT.

UM, WE'LL HOLD OFF ON OUR APPROVAL OF MINUTES.

DOES THE VICE CHAIR HAVE ANY MOTIONS? I HAVE THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUALS, UH, SIGNED UP TO SPEAK TODAY.

QUA CUMMINGS, KEVIN BUSH, AND NATASHA BUSH.

IF YOU'RE HERE AND WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AND YOUR NAME WASN'T CALLED, YOU'LL NEED TO GET WITH, UM, ELAINE AND FILL OUT A FORM SO THAT WE CAN GET YOU ONTO THE LIST.

SO WITH THAT SAID, UH, FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IN REGARDS TO THE CONSENT AGENDA, UH, MOVE TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS ONE THROUGH THREE.

SECOND.

OKAY.

SO OUR MOTION IS TO, TO FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ON APPRO THOSE FIRST THREE, UH, CONSENT ITEMS. AND WE HAVE A SECOND.

AND ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENT? SEEING NONE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? OKAY.

THOSE THREE ARE DONE AND OVER WITH.

I MOVE THAT WE ADOPT THE FOLLOWING AGENDA.

WE'LL START WITH DISCUSSION ITEM ONE, FOLLOWED BY DISCUSSION ITEM TWO.

AND WE'LL TAKE CONSENT.

ITEM FOUR, LAST SECOND.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER, GUEST FOR YOUR SECOND.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

AND NO OPPOSED THEN WE ARE GOOD TO GO.

UM, COULD WE JUST GET, UH, COMMISSIONER, UM, THE SECOND FOR THE FIRST MOTION, ROBIN THE RECORD? WE NEED TO HEAR IT ON THE RECORD.

I'M SORRY.

I DO WANNA GET HIS NAME RIGHT.

WHAT? I MEAN, I DID SAY A SECOND.

YEAH, BUT COMMISSIONER YOUR NAME.

SO THAT'LL BE COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER.

SECONDED.

YES.

I'LL HAVE TO HAVE THAT ON THE RECORD.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

LET US, UH, NOW TURN TO ADDRESSING OUR DISCUSSION ITEMS OF TWO OF WHICH ARE THE HAPPIEST THING WE EVER DO HERE.

TALKING ABOUT MAKING NEW LANDMARKS AND PEOPLE WHO STEPPED FORWARD TO PRESERVE IMPORTANT PLACES.

SO STAFF.

OKAY.

GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE.

THIS IS DR.

RDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.

DISCUSSION ITEM D ONE.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 5,700 CELESTIAL ROAD.

IT'S KNOWN AS THE WHITE R CEMETERY GARDEN OF MEMORIES.

THE REQUEST IS FOR A LANDMARK COMMISSION AUTHORIZED HEARING TO CONSIDER A HISTORIC OVERLAY FOR THE WHITE ROCK CEMETERY GARDEN OF MEMORIES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF CELESTIAL ROAD AND BOARDED BY CEDAR CANYON ROAD ON THE NORTHEAST AND WEST STAFF.

RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVED SUBJECT TO PRESERVATION CRITERIA.

THANK YOU.

UH, WE DO HAVE SOME SPEAKERS HERE ON THIS.

SOMEONE TO READ.

OH, READING DESIGNATION COMMITTEE.

OH, DO I READ IT? APPARENTLY, YES.

, UH, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY.

WE DIDN'T ASSIGN ANYBODY TASK FORCE.

WE'LL LET COMMISSIONER POSI READ.

I'M SURE HE'LL ENJOY THAT.

OKAY.

DESIGNATION COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATION, APPROVE SUBJECT TO PRESERVATION CRITERIA.

[00:05:03]

OKAY.

NOW CAN WE HEAR FROM THE SPEAKERS? EXCELLENT.

THE FIRST ONE ON OUR LIST IS IKA CUMMINGS.

AND I MENTIONED THIS EARLIER IN OUR BRIEFING, AND I'M SURE MANY PEOPLE CONTRIBUTED TO GETTING THIS LANDMARK TO US, BUT I MUST SAY THE HEAVY LOAD OF RESEARCH AND WRITING, AS FAR AS WE KNOW, IT WAS QUA CUMMINGS.

THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING THIS TIME.

USUALLY WE HAVE TO RESEARCH AND WRITE, BUT SHE DID IT.

THANK YOU.

BUT JUST TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE LEGAL .

YES.

MY NAME IS SHANIQUA CUMMINGS AND MY ADDRESS IS 1806 MCNEELY STREET.

CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? IT'S 1806 MCNEELY STREET IN LANCASTER, TEXAS.

UM, FIRST OFF, I WANNA SAY THANK YOU TO THE LANDMARK COMMISSION AND THE DESIGNATION COM, UH, COMMITTEE FOR YOUR, UM, CONSIDERATION OF THIS DESIGNATION AND FOR YOUR HARD WORK.

AND HARD WORK IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT.

UM, WHEN IT COMES TO DESCRIBING, YOU KNOW, THE EFFORT THAT TOOK PLACE TO BRING THIS NOMINATION TO THIS POINT, UM, THE WHITE ROCK CEMETERY GARDEN MEMORIES IS IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE NOT ONLY AM I AN ADVOCATE OF PRESERVATION, UM, OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY AND CULTURE, BUT I AM A DESCENDANT OF PIONEERS WHO WERE BURIED THERE AND WHO LIVED IN WHAT WAS ONCE, UH, FRIEDMAN'S TOWN CALLED UPPER WHITE ROCK.

UM, WHERE THE CEMETERY NOW LIES, UM, WITH OTHER NOTABLE AND INTERNS LIKE, UH, HENRY KELLER, WHO, UH, IS THE NAMESAKE OF KELLER SPRINGS ROAD AND GEORGE COT OF THE COT FAMILY FOR WHICH, UH, COT ROAD IS NAMED.

UM, THE TURNERS, THE TAR POLICE AND ANDERSON BONNER, UM, UH, WHO WAS A PROLIFIC LANDOWNER IN THE AREA AT THE TIME.

UM, AND HE'S ALSO ENTERED THE CEMETERY, UH, MANY OF WHOM WERE, ARE BORN INTO ENSLAVEMENT.

UM, THE CEMETERY IS IMPORTANT AND IT IS AN HISTORICAL ASSET NOT ONLY TO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY OF DALLAS, BUT TO DALLAS HISTORY AS A WHOLE.

UM, AND THIS IS WHY WE'RE SEEKING LANDMARK DESIGNATION TO PRESERVE THE LEGACY AND THE HISTORY OF THESE FAMILIES IN THE CEMETERY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

AND OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS KEVIN BUSH.

SORRY YOU'RE NOT FOR THIS ONE, .

SORRY, WE'RE STILL ON D ONE.

SO THERE ARE NO OTHER SPEAKERS FOR D ONE? NO, THAT IS, IT WAS, WAS THE COUNCIL MEMBER HERE.

DID THE COUNCIL MEMBER FOR THIS DISTRICT WISH TO SPEAK ON THE WONDERFUL NEWS OF THIS? YOU STILL HAVE TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

THANK YOU.

JANIE SCHULTZ.

1 1 2 2 2 ST.

MICHAEL'S DRIVE, DALLAS, TEXAS.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HARD WORK ON THIS.

I HOPE THIS ITEM WILL PASS.

UM, AND I REALLY WANNA, I KNOW THOUGH THAT, UH, MY COMMISSIONER WILL BE SHARING ALL THE THANKS THAT WE CRAFTED TOGETHER.

UM, BUT I PARTICULARLY WANTED TO CALL OUT THE, THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION WHO WORKED SO HARD TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

OUR STAFF QUA, OF COURSE.

AND I ALSO WANNA THANK, UM, LOUIS OCON WHO JUST WALKED IN BECAUSE HE VERY GRACIOUSLY HELPED CREATE THE ARCH, UH, THAT, THAT, UM, THAT STANDS OVER THE CEMETERY.

UH, THIS IS A MOMENT IN DALLAS HISTORY.

IT'S AN UNKNOWN PART OF DALLAS HISTORY, AND I HOPE THAT ALL OF YOU WILL ALSO BE JOINING US ON FEBRUARY 18TH, WHERE WE'LL BE CELEBRATING ALL OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY OF NORTH DALLAS.

SO IF YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT, IT'S STARTING TO GO OUT AND WE'LL SHARE THAT WITH ALL OF YOU.

SO AGAIN, THANK YOU AND I, I LOOK FORWARD TO A, A POSITIVE VOTE.

THANK YOU, MA'AM.

AND WE DID DISCUSS IN OUR BRIEFING, WE WERE WONDERING WHETHER MORE WOULD BE COMING FORTH FROM YOUR DISTRICT FOR INITIATION AND DESIGNATION.

I SURE HOPE SO.

WE'RE IN THE WORKS WITH DR. DUNN ON THESE.

WELL, SHE WILL HELP YOU.

MM-HMM.

.

ALRIGHT.

UH, NOW COMMISSIONERS, ANY DISCUSSION? YES.

COMMISSIONER OFFIT? UH, YES.

THANK YOU.

AND I WANTED TO AGAIN, THANK MS. CUMMINGS FOR THE INCREDIBLE WORK AND HARD LONG HOURS THAT SHE PUTS INTO NOT ONLY THIS PARTICULAR LANDMARK, BUT ONGOING LANDMARK SINCE HOPEFULLY SOON TO BE OTHER LANDMARKS, UM, THROUGHOUT DALLAS AND, AND PARTICULARLY AROUND OUR AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

UM, SO THANK YOU MS. CUMMINGS, BECAUSE YOU, YOU, WITHOUT YOU, MANY OF US WOULD BE, UM, IN COMPLETELY IGNORANT ABOUT SO MANY IMPORTANT HISTORICAL THINGS.

UM, AND IF THERE'S NO MORE DISCUSSION, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.

GO AHEAD.

IS THERE ANY MORE

[00:10:01]

DISCUSSION? AHA.

YOU KNOW WHAT? COMMISSIONER TA LOT OF TIMES FOR A NEW DESIGNATION, WE DO LIKE TO LET THE COMMISSIONER REPRESENTING THAT DISTRICT MAKE THE MOTION.

THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL.

SO THAT WOULD BE COMMISSIONER GIBSON, IS IT? HE'S LOOKING AT YOU.

MM-HMM.

, UH, IN THE MATTER OF 5,700 CELESTIAL ROAD, I MOVE THAT WE, UH, APPROVED SUBJECT TO PRESERVATION.

TER DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND.

COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER WAS FASTER THAN COMMISSIONER RENE AS A NORTH DALLAS RESIDENT.

WHO, WHO, WHO IS KIND OF NEAR THERE? MM-HMM.

.

ALL RIGHT.

IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ARE WE READY TO VOTE? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

A AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? GOOD.

NO OPPOSITION.

IT CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.

WE ARE PLEASED TO WELCOME A NEW LANDMARK TO OUR ROSTER.

WE ARE WELCOMING IT.

.

I DIDN'T SAY THE WHOLE TOWN IS WELCOMING IT.

I SAID WE ARE WELCOMING .

OKAY, NEXT UP WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE.

WHAT USED TO BE KNOWN AS RED BRYANTS STAFF.

OKAY.

GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN.

UH, I'M PRESENTING.

THIS IS DR.

RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING DISCUSSION ITEM D TWO.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT SIX 10 WEST JEFFERSON BOULEVARD.

THE, UH, NAME OF THE PROPERTY, THE COMMON NAME IS L CHETO RESTAURANT.

AND THE CURRENT NAME, THE REQUEST IS FOR A LANDMARK COMMISSION AUTHORIZED HEARING TO CONSIDER A HISTORIC OVERLAY BY THE EL RANCHITO RESTAURANT ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF WEST OF WEST JEFFERSON BOULEVARD AND WEST OF SOUTH BLUE ALLEN AVENUE.

AT THE INTERSECTION, STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVED SUBJECT TO PRESERVATION CRITERIA, DESIGNATION COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATION APPROVED SUBJECT TO PRESERVATION CRITERIA.

ALRIGHT, NOW WE'RE READY FOR THE SPEAKERS ON THIS ONE.

KEVIN ? NO, THEY'RE THE SPEAKERS ON THE LAST ONE.

WHAT? THEY'RE THE SPEAKERS ON C FOUR.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE SPEAKERS EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE, IT SAYS C TWO.

YEAH.

C FOUR.

YEAH.

ALL RIGHTY.

WELL, THERE IS A MISPRINT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED, BUT, UM, THOSE TWO SPEAKERS WERE SIGNED UP FOR C FOUR, WHICH WE MOVED OVER HERE, BUT THEY ARE DOWN HERE AS BEING FOR D TWO, WHICH IS THE ONE WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.

SO YOU HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER FEW MINUTES.

SORRY.

BUT THESE ARE SHORT USUALLY AND, AND ALL POSITIVE AND FRIENDLY, SO THAT'S GOOD.

ALRIGHT, WE DO HAVE SPEAKERS, MITCH, THEY'RE HERE FOR ELTO.

WELL, WILL THE SPEAKERS FOR EL RANCHITO PLEASE COME UP TO THE MIC? I AM NOT PREPARED TO SPEAK, BUT, UM, I JUST WANNA GIVE AND MA'AM, I DO NEED YOU TO START WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S LAW.

UH, MY NAME IS LAURA SANCHEZ AND I LIVE IN ON 15 14 0 HILL AVENUE AND IN OAK CLIFF IN KEER PARK.

UM, I JUST WANNA GIVE THANKS TO THE COMMISSION HERE FOR ALLOWING MY BEAUTIFUL RESTAURANT TO BE A LANDMARK HISTORIC LANDMARK IN, IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

WE'RE SO PROUD THAT MR. BECK DESIGNED THAT BEAUTIFUL RE UH, RESTAURANT FOR SO BRYANT AND AFTER 40 YEARS WE'RE STILL THERE AND WE PLAN TO HAVE IT FOR ANOTHER 40 YEARS, HOPEFULLY.

WELL, WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL FOR YOU FOR WANTING TO DO THIS, AND IT WAS AN HONOR FOR ALL OF US THAT THANK YOU.

WE'LL BE ABLE TO MOVE IT FORWARD.

I, I, IT IT'S AN HONOR TO BE, NOT TO BECOME A LANDMARK.

I REALIZE THERE ARE REASONS PEOPLE MIGHT NOT.

WE DID A FEW YEARS AGO HAVE ANOTHER RESTAURANT IN OAK CLIFF THAT WISHED TO SELL TO A DEVELOPER AND THEIR ORIGINAL BUILDING TAKEN DOWN AND WE WERE NOT ABLE TO CONVINCE THEM TO DO OTHERWISE.

BUT, UM, IT IS FABULOUS THAT YOU HAVE, HAVE SEEN THE IMPORTANCE OF MAINTAINING THE HISTORY OF, OF THAT BUILDING AND WHAT YOU ACCOMPLISHED THERE IN ALL THE YEARS THAT YOU'VE BEEN.

THANK YOU.

RIGHT.

MS. CHAIRMAN HAS DONE A WONDERFUL JOB EXPLAINING EVERYTHING TO ME AND IN, IN HER VISITS TO ME, AND, AND EXPLAINING WHAT, WHAT WE CAN ACCOMPLISH AND WE CAN GET FROM BEING A LANDMARK.

AND SO I REALLY THANK HER FOR HER HARD WORK AND, UH, IT'S BEEN QUITE A LONG, LONG WORK , BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IT FEELS THAT WAY.

YEAH.

THANK YOU.

WELL, GREAT.

WE ALL KNOW THAT COMMISSIONER SHERMAN IS VERY PERSUASIVE AND KNOWS A LOT AND SHE DOES HER JOB VERY WELL.

.

THANK YOU.

SHE DOES THAT.

DID WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER THAT

[00:15:01]

WAS SITTING WITH YOU OR SHE REFUSES? SHE REFUSES.

OKAY.

BUT SHE'S IN SUPPORT .

THANK YOU.

ALRIGHTY.

THEN.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER PREZI, WHO DID A LOT OF WORK ON THE RESEARCHING THE HISTORY OF THIS? WELL, FIRST OFF, I WANTED TO, UH, THANK LAURA SANCHEZ FOR HER WONDERFUL, UH, STEWARDSHIP OF THE BUILDING FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS AND REALLY WORKING TO MAINTAIN AND KEEP THE BUILDING UP.

IT'S SUCH A, A TREMENDOUS, UH, LANDMARK FOR OAK CLIFF.

I LIVE IN OAK CLIFF AS WELL, AND IT'S JUST, UH, IT, IT'S SO WONDERFUL THAT, THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO MAKE, UH, THIS GIFT REALLY TO THE CITY AND TO PROTECT THE BUILDING AND PERPETUITY SO THAT WE KNOW THAT THE BUILDING WILL BE THERE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO COME TO, TO ADMIRE AND TO ENJOY, UM, AND HAVE A MARGARITA .

UM, SO THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND AGAIN, ALSO THANK YOU TO COMMISSIONER SHERMAN FOR ALL THE WORK SHE DID ON, UH, UH, GETTING THIS, UH, UH, NOMINATION TO THIS STAGE AND, AND WORKING WITH, UH, LAURA AND PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER.

THANK YOU FOR, FOR TAKING THIS ON.

AND, AND ALSO AS A MEMBER OF THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE, THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE THAT WORKED ON THIS DESIGNATION REPORT AND THE DIFFERENT PIECES THAT WENT INTO IT.

I KNOW I DID THE RED BRIAN PIECE OF, OF THE HISTORY, BUT THERE WAS LOTS OF OTHERS THAT, THAT PUT IT TOGETHER.

SO THIS WAS REALLY A TEAM EFFORT AND A REALLY, A WONDERFUL EFFORT AT THAT.

SO THANK YOU.

ALRIGHT.

ALL RIGHT THEN.

NOT SEEING ANYBODY LOOKING TO HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, IT IS TIME FOR US TO VOTE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? WAIT A SECOND.

WE DIDN'T MAKE THE MOTION, KAT BE IN FAVOR OF A MOTION THAT HAS NOT BEEN MADE.

COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, WHY DON'T YOU MAKE THIS MOTION? THANK YOU.

UM, IT'S HONESTLY WITH GREAT DELIGHT AND, UM, TREMENDOUS GRATITUDE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, NOT ONLY LAURA FOR BEING WILLING TO SEE THIS BUILDING DESIGNATED, BUT UM, ALSO TO, UH, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA FOR HER EARLY, UH, ENCOURAGEMENT OF THIS PROCESS, UM, AS WELL AS COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS AND, UM, OF COURSE COMMISSIONER OSI, WHO AT THE TIME WE KICKED THIS BOULDER OFF THE HILL WAS, UH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PRESERVATION DALLAS.

WE ALSO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE BECK ARCHITECTURE CONSERVANCY, UM, WHO LENT ENERGY TO THE REPORT AS WELL AS ADVOCACY FROM THE BEGINNING.

UM, AND, UM, WE, UH, WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS, UH, FOR OAK CLIFF FOR DISTRICT ONE, BUT ALSO FOR, UM, THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MANY BECK PRODUCTS THAT ARE NOT SAVED, UM, AND FOR PERPETUITY.

AND THIS IS THE FIRST COMMERCIAL BECK TO BE RECOGNIZED IN THIS WAY.

SO, UH, WITH THAT, I, UM, IN THE MATTER OF DISCUSSION ITEM 2 6 10 WEST JEFFERSON BOULEVARD YTO RESTAURANT, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE, UM, LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF THIS PROPERTY SUBJECT TO THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA.

SO BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN BY THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE AND I'LL, UH, SECOND THE MOTION.

MR. PREZI WAS TOO SLOW.

THE MOTION IS SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA WHO WINS THE SPEED GAME AGAIN.

ALRIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

NONE OPPOSED.

WASN'T THAT FUN? WE HAVE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THE DESIGNATION OF THIS PROPERTY AND WE ARE ALL VERY HAPPY.

CONGRATULATIONS MA'AM.

AND THANK YOU AGAIN.

ALRIGHT, NOW , WE'RE FINALLY DOING YOURS.

YOUR SIGN OKAY? YES, YOUR SIGN.

ALL RIGHT.

SO THIS WAS CONSENT ITEM FOUR.

THIS IS DR.

RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING CONSENT ITEM FOUR ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 1511 MAIN STREET.

IT'S KNOWN AS THE BUSH KIRBY BUILDING.

THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL AN INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CLOUD SIGN ON STOREFRONT OF BUILDING ANNEX STAFF.

RECOMMENDATION IS AS FOLLOWS, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL AN INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CLOUD SIGN ON STOREFRONT OF BUILDING ANNEX BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 1 4 20 24.

THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION SECTION EIGHT UNDER SIGNS THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS AND HAS BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY SPECIAL DIVISION SIGNED DISTRICTS FOR AESTHETICS AND APPROPRIATENESS TO THE DISTRICT TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR THE CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL

[00:20:01]

AN INTERNALLY INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CLOUD SIGN ON STOREFRONT OF BUILDING ANNEX BE APPROVED WITH THE CONDITION AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THE SIGN WILL BE ATTACHED TO THE EXISTING NON HISTORIC INCOMPATIBLE STOREFRONT FACADE AND WOULD OTHERWISE BE INAPPROPRIATE IF PLACED ON A PORTION OF THE HISTORIC FACADE.

THANK YOU.

AND NOW WE GET TO HEAR FROM KEVIN BUSH.

FINALLY, .

OH, YOU'RE GONNA LET HER GO FIRST AND SHE IS NATASHA, AND YOU STILL HAVE TO STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS.

UH, GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE.

MY NAME IS NATASHA BUSH.

I'M THE OWNER OF THE PERFECT PLACE LOCATED AT 1511 MAIN STREET.

UM, AS A FIRST GENERATION ENTREPRENEURIAL WIFE AND MOTHER, I AM HONORED FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE A BLESSING TO MY FAMILY AND COUNTLESS OTHER FAMILIES THROUGH MY SMALL BUSINESS IN THE GREAT CITY OF DALLAS.

I THINK THE SIGN IS BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE IT COMPLIMENTS THE HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN OF THE BUILDING WHILE ENHANCING MY SPACE AND BLENDING WELL WITH OTHER BUSINESSES NEARBY.

MY INTENT IS TO RESPECT AND MAINTAIN THE BEAUTY OF THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT BY MATCHING, BY MATCHING OR EXCEEDING THE SIGNAGE OF PAST TENANTS.

I ASK THAT YOU APPROVE THE PROPOSED SIGN FOR THE PERFECT PLACE AS THIS BUSINESS REPRESENTS GENERATIONAL WEALTH FOR MY CHILDREN.

AND IT'S EVIDENT THAT A WIFE CAN BE EQUALLY AS SUCCESSFUL AS HER HUSBAND.

UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION.

THANK YOU.

AND YES, SHE CAN TELL MY HUSBAND THAT , DO YOU WISH TO ALSO SPEAK, SIR? YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE WITH HER ON EVERY POINT.

ALL RIGHT.

AND NOW WE WILL OPEN IT UP FOR, UM, QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS OF EITHER CITY STAFF OR OUR SPEAKERS.

EVEN THE ONE THAT DIDN'T SPEAK.

THEY CAN ASK HIM QUESTIONS TOO.

I THINK COMMISSIONERS COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, UH, DO I DO HAVE A QUESTION? UM, SO THIS IS PART OF THE KIRBY DESIGNATION AND THIS, THIS BUILDING IS PART OF THE KIRBY BUILDING DESIGNATION? YES.

SO IF YOU GO TO THE NOMINATION FORM FOR THE KIRBY BUSH BUILDING, THIS IS CONSIDERED THE ANNEX.

SO KIRBY IS 1509, THIS IS 1511.

SO THIS IS WHERE THE DEPARTMENT STORE USED TO BE.

SO THERE'S TWO BUILDINGS, THE KIRBY BUILDING PROPER AND THEN THE ANNEX.

RIGHT.

AND THIS IS THE ANNEX.

OKAY.

AND THIS IS THE ANNEX.

WELL, MY CONCERN INITIALLY WAS THAT THIS PLASTIC BACKLIT SIGN IS NOT SOMETHING YOU'D HAVE SEEN IN OLD DOWNTOWN DALLAS.

IT'S MORE LIKELY TO BE SOMETHING YOU'D SEE IN A CONTEMPORARY SHOPPING CENTER OR WHATEVER.

AND I JUST WANTED LIKE TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE DISCUSSION ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS APPROPRIATE.

IT APPEARS THAT THIS IS ON AN HISTORIC BUILDING, BUT A NON-CONTRIBUTING ENTRANCE TO THAT BUILDING.

AND I GUESS THAT'S WHERE THE TASK FORCE FELT THAT THEY WOULD MAKE A COMPROMISE OR A CONSIDERATION TO PUT IT THERE.

UM, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO BE SURE THE COMMISSION REALIZES THIS IS SOMETHING UNUSUAL AND TYPICALLY YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A PLASTIC BACKLIT SIGN ON AN HISTORIC BUILDING.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSULT OUR CITY ATTORNEY WHO WILL GO TO A MICROPHONE, UM, AND OUR STAFF ABOUT WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS ABOUT THE STANDARDS FOR A SIGN ON THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE, THE KIRBY LANDMARK.

SO I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THAT.

UM, SO I WILL READ YOU DIRECTLY FROM THE DESIGN STANDARDS FOR THE KIRBY BUILDING, UM, ORDINANCE 1 9 6 9 7 PAST 9 28, 8, UH, 1987.

IT SAYS, SIGNED ALL NEW SIGNS SHALL BE, UH, DESIGNED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL QUALITIES OF THE ORIGINAL RESOURCE STRUCTURE AND SHALL BE APPROVED BY THE LANDMARK COMMISSION PRIOR TO ISSUANCE OF A SIGN PERMIT.

SO IT REALLY SPEAKS TO THE, TO THE KIRBY BUILDING IN AND OF ITSELF.

OH, WE THAT WE DON'T GET ADEQUATE GUIDANCE FROM THAT ON NO.

WHAT WE DO IN THIS CASE, OF COURSE NOT.

THEY'RE JUST LEAVING IT UP TO US.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

I STILL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THE ATTORNEY WOULD LIKE WHERE TO GO.

SHE RAN AWAY.

OH, THERE SHE .

NO, THE ATTORNEY'S HERE.

DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY, IF ANY INTERPRETATION THAT YOU CAN PULL OUT OF THIS AS A TRAINED ATTORNEY WOULD BE BETTER THAN WHAT WE AS HISTORIANS AND ARCHITECTS AND SUCH WILL FIGURE OUT? IT'S JUST WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT ALL NEW SHINES UP SHALL BE DESIGNED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL QUALITIES.

AND THAT'S UP TO THIS COMMISSION TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, UM, FINE , SORRY, THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER.

OKAY.

.

WELL, AND AGAIN, IT SAYS TO THE ORIGINAL RESOURCE STRUCTURE, WHICH

[00:25:01]

IS THE KIRBY BU BUILDING, NOT NECESSARILY THE ANNEX.

AND REMEMBER THAT THE SIGN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, THE PICTURES PROVIDED IN YOUR PACKET, IT IS ON THE PART OF THE BUILDING THAT, UH, I WOULD, I THINK WE WOULD ALL BE CONCERNED IF IT WAS BEING PUT ON THE ACTUAL ORIGINAL FACADE, BUT THERE'S ALREADY A, A, UH, SURROUND OF THE ENTRANCE THAT IS NOT ORIGINAL TO THE BUILDING, IS NOT COMPATIBLE AND THE SIGNS BEING PLACED THERE.

SO THERE WILL BE NO DAMAGE OR ISSUE WITH HOW THE UH, SIGN IS PLACED ON THERE.

AND AGAIN, THAT'S AN INCOMPATIBLE CHANGE TO THE BUILDING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I HAVE A QUESTION, MATT, ON THE ANNEX BUILDING, UM, WHAT IS THE HISTORY TO THE ANNEX BUILDING THEN? WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE DATE ON THAT ANNEX BUILDING? IT'S, IT'S NON CONTRIBUTING.

I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT ALSO I'D LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

IT SAYS OLD AS THE BUILDING FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, OR ALMOST AS OLD.

IT WAS BUILT AS A DEPARTMENT STORE, A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT STORE FROM THE KIRBY BUILDING.

SO THE KIRBY BUILDING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A COMPLIMENT TO THE ADO OFFICE HOTEL WITH THE RETAIL SPACE ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND OFFICE SPACE.

AND THEN THIS WAS ACTUALLY THE, UM, WHAT'S THE NAME? I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THE NAME OF THE DEPARTMENT STORE.

DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER? I THINK IT WAS SANGER HARRIS.

OH YEAH, YEAH.

A HARRIS.

A HARRIS A HARRIS WAS THE NAME OF THE DEPARTMENT STORE.

SO THAT'S WHAT THIS WAS.

DO WE HAVE A YEAR ON THE BUILT ON WHEN THE ANNEX WAS BUILT AND WHAT, WHAT WAS MAKING THIS NON-CONTRIBUTING WHEN THIS WAS, WHEN THIS FIRST WAS LOOKED AT? DOES DO WE KNOW THAT AS WELL? I THINK THEY SEE THE ENTRANCE IS NON-CONTRIBUTING? I THINK THEY'RE JUST SAYING THAT STOREFRONT, THAT ROUGH CONCRETE WHERE THE SIGNS HANGING JUST STORE FRONT.

RIGHT.

AND THE STOREFRONT UNDERNEATH.

IT'S NOT ORIGINAL.

YEAH.

NOT THE WHOLE BUILDING.

JUST THE FIRST LEVEL STOREFRONT STORE, BECAUSE THOSE WERE ALTERED I THINK IN THE 1970S AND THE ALTERATION WAS INAPPROPRIATE.

SO JUST THAT.

OKAY.

MADAM CHAIR.

OKAY.

UM, HANG ON A SECOND, MR. ANDERSON.

WE WANT TO LET COMMISSIONER OFFICE TALK BECAUSE HE HASN'T GOTTEN TO THANK YOU.

UM, I'M GONNA BE SUPPORTING BOTH THE STAFF AND TEST FOR THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION TO ALLOW THE SIGN FOR THE VERY REASONS IT STATED.

UM, THAT, THAT IT MEETS THE CRITERIA.

AND I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE FOR US TO PUT ADDITIONAL BURDENS ON APPLICANTS BY, IN MY OPINION, BLINDSIDING THEM WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT SAY, OH, WELL IT'S NEXT DOOR TO THIS, OR IT TOUCHES THAT.

WELL, THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR GUIDELINES SAY.

OUR GUIDELINE SAY X.

AND THEY HAVE MET THOSE GUIDELINES.

THANK YOU.

THANK, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER OFFIT.

AND, UM, YES, I'M SURE IT IS PAINFUL FOR APPLICANTS WHEN THEIR CASE COMES BEFORE US AND WE COME UP WITH A NEW QUESTIONS TO ASK AND CONCERNS TO HAVE.

HOWEVER, THAT'S PART OF WHY WE HAVE STAFF TASK FORCES AND THE LANDMARK COMMISSION SO THAT THERE'S A LOT OF VOICES ABLE TO CONSIDER.

SO WE DON'T LET SOMETHING SLIP THROUGH THAT WE WILL REGRET LATER, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, HARD AS THIS IS, IT'S BETTER THAN DOING IT WRONG THE FIRST TIME.

COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, I REMAIN A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED AND I'M SORRY, BUT, SO THIS ANNEX IS PART OF THE KIRBY COMPLEX BASICALLY.

SO IT IS PROTECTED, BUT IT'S DEEMED CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE STOREFRONT.

IT'S DEEMED CONTRIBUTING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE FIRST FLOOR GROUND LEVEL STOREFRONTS.

SO WE'RE BEING ASKED IF, UM, AN ALTERATION TO A NON-CONTRIBUTING SECTION IS APPROPRIATE TO THE NON-CONTRIBUTING, I MEAN TO THE, UM, INCOMPATIBLE CHANGE THAT WAS MADE WHEN THE STOREFRONT WAS MODIFIED.

IS THAT CORRECT? I DON'T KNOW IF I'D SAY IT THAT WAY.

WELL, I MEAN, IT SEEMS, MY, MY CONCERN IS THAT ARE WE BEING ASKED TO ENDORSE PERHAPS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT AMOUNT TO TWO WRONGS MAKING A RIGHT, WHICH WE'RE TYPICALLY CAREFUL NOT TO DO.

OKAY.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING, WHEN YOU MAKE IT, WHEN YOU AUTHORIZE A CHANGE TO IT, IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO CONTINUE TO GO THE WRONG WAY.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO IN A DESIRED, OKAY.

SO THAT, I MEAN, WE'VE VOTED MANY, MANY TIMES OVER THE PAST TO CONSIDER WHETHER IT'S AN ALTERATION TO A INCOMPATIBLE AREA,

[00:30:01]

A FURTHER ALTERATION IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT.

AND JUST BECAUSE IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE TO START WITH DOESN'T SEEM AS THOUGH ADDING INAPPROPRIATENESS MAKES IT MORE APPROPRIATE.

I I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING.

IT'S JUST, I DIDN'T CONSIDER IT SINCE IT'S A SIGN AND IT'S BASICALLY TEMPORARY BECAUSE I LIVED DOWNTOWN AND SIGNS KIND OF COME AND GO.

I WASN'T REALLY THINKING OF IT, THINKING OF IT AS AN ALTERATION.

'CAUSE YES, I WOULD DEFINITELY AGREE.

IF IT'S INAPPROPRIATE, WE NEED TO START ROLLING IT BACK AND MOVING TOWARD APPROPRIATE.

BUT LIKE I SAID, I WAS LOOKING AT IT IN TERMS OF THE GENERAL SIGNAGE DOWNTOWN, IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE SIGNAGE IN THAT AREA.

UH, A SIGN IS TEMPORARY, YOU KNOW? YEAH.

I MEAN IT'S LIKE, SO ONE MIGHT ARGUE THAT A SIGN IS TEMPORARY, JUST LIKE ONE MIGHT ARGUE THAT COLOR IS TEMPORARY EVEN THOUGH SOMETHING MIGHT STAY IN PLACE FOR DECADES.

OKAY.

SEE, TO ME, THAT'S NOT TEMPORARY IN NATURE.

OKAY.

BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I CAN SEE THAT, YES, MAYBE IT'S VAGUE, THERESA, WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS, BUT FOR US TO BE, FOR IT TO BE SUGGESTED TO US THAT WE DON'T HAVE PURVIEW HERE WHEN WE REALLY DO HAVE PURVIEW HERE.

OTHERWISE IT WOULDN'T BE COMING IN FRONT OF US ANYWAY.

CORRECT.

I MEAN, IT'S COMING BEFORE US FOR REASONS.

I THINK WE, WE DO HAVE PURVIEW.

IT'S JUST THAT, UM, THE GUIDANCE AND OUR USUAL PRACTICES ARE TO HOLD NON-CONTRIBUTING THINGS TO A LOWER STANDARD THAN WE DO CONTRIBUTING THINGS.

AND OF COURSE, I YOU'RE RIGHT, TWO, TWO WRONGS JUST MAKE A DOUBLE WRONG INSTEAD OF A BETTER, BUT AT A IMPORTANT POINT THAT DR. DUNN MADE WAS THAT THIS IS A SIGN, SO IT'S EASILY REPLACEABLE, IT'S TEMPORARY, YOU CAN GET IT OFF IN THE MEANTIME, IT WILL BE THERE.

UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THE APPLICANTS HAVE ALREADY HAD THE SIGN MADE, SO I SERIOUSLY DOUBT I CAN TALK YOU INTO CHANGING THE SIGN.

RIGHT.

I DIDN'T THINK THAT SUCCEEDED THAT ONE.

.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

OKAY, GO AHEAD COMMISSIONER ANDERSON.

AND THEN I THINK WE NEED TO SEE IF NO ONE ELSE HAS A COMMENT, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION, THIS IS A CONFUSING ONE.

COULD I SEE? OR COULD WE ALL SEE THE, THE WHOLE FACADE, THE KIRBY AND THE ANNEX SO WE GET A FEELING FOR WHAT THIS REALLY LOOKS LIKE.

OKAY.

WHAT I HAVE IN MY REPORT, I THINK I HAVE THE ANNEX, BUT NOT OKAY.

BUT I HAVE IN MY REPORT THAT'S THE ANNEX AND TO THE LEFT IS THE KIRBY.

OKAY.

THIS IS A CLOSEUP ON THAT PARTICULAR SECTION WHERE THE SIGN WILL BE PLACED.

AND I THINK I'D HAVE TO GO TO THE, UH, GOOGLE MAPS IN ORDER TO SHOW THE ACTUAL I I THINK THAT'S ADEQUATE IF YOU JUST COULD TAKE IT UP.

YEAH.

ALRIGHT.

SO COULD YOU READ AGAIN, UH, PLEASE.

THE CRITERIA I WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE SIGN IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE BUILDING, IS THAT CORRECT? ALL NEW SIGNS SHALL BE DESIGNED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL QUALITIES OF THE ORIGINAL RESOURCE STRUCTURE AND SHALL BE APPROVED BY THE LANDMARK COMMISSION PRIOR TO ISSUANCE OF A SIGN PERMIT.

THANK YOU.

SO OUR CHARGE TO DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF SINUS COMPATIBLE WITH THIS BUILDING.

THANK YOU.

ANYONE ELSE WITH A COMMENT? I REMAIN CONFUSED ABOUT ONE.

OKAY.

FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT KNOW MUCH MORE THAN I ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS UNLIKELY, BUT GO AHEAD.

NO, NO, YOU WOULD.

UM, WHAT WOULD ORIGINAL RESOURCE STRUCTURE MEAN IN THIS CASE? I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE, THE KEY HERE, UM, IS THE ORIGINAL RESOURCE STRUCTURE, THE KIRBY, WHICH WOULD BE HOLDING THIS LITTLE SIDE BUILDING THAT LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM THE KIRBY TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD ANYWAY.

IS IT THAT BUILDING OR, AND I'D SAY THAT IF THEY MOVED THE SIGN FOUR FEET UP AND IT WAS IN THE HISTORIC FABRIC, EVERYBODY WOULD SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T PUT A SIGN UP THERE BECAUSE YOU'VE ATTACHED IT TO A HISTORIC FABRIC.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE SAY, WHETHER IT'S, WHETHER THIS CHUNK OF THE BUILDING, BECAUSE IT IS ALL WRONG FOR THE BUILDING, JUST DOESN'T COUNT FOR US OR NOT, BUT DO WE HAVE, HAVE OPTIONS SO HARD BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE THE SIGN? I HAVE TO ADMIT, THIS IS NOT THE SIGN I WOULD'VE CHOSEN.

PERHAPS A BIT MORE HISTORIC SCRIPT MIGHT HAVE WORKED BETTER, BUT I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WOULD BE WHAT APPROPRIATE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO SAY THIS SIGN CANNOT BE THERE OR SAY, THIS SIGN IS FINE.

I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO.

I HATE TO DO WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION IN TERMS OF BASIC PRESERVATION PRINCIPLES, PERHAPS TO, TO FACTOR IN WHETHER OR NOT IN OUR OPINION, THIS SIGN, THIS PARTICULAR SIGN HAS AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE KIRBY AS A WHOLE.

WE DO HAVE THAT RESPONSIBILITY, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER THE OTHER HISTORIC PRESERVATION PRINCIPLES.

SOMETHING THAT'S EASILY REVERSIBLE IS NOT SO BAD.

EVEN IF WE DON'T LIKE

[00:35:01]

IT DURING THE TIME THAT IT'S UP, IT, IT, IT'S STILL OKAY.

AND I BELIEVE THAT OUR APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THIS.

SO PLEASE, WHAT IS IT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY? MS. BAR? .

SO I JUST WANNA APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE.

I HAD NO IDEA GOING THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS OF SIGNING THE LEASE, TALKING WITH THE OWNERS, NOBODY EVER MENTIONED THAT IT WAS A HISTORIC BUILDING BECAUSE HAD I KNOWN, I WOULD'VE REACHED OUT TO SOMEBODY AND SAY, HEY, WHAT IS THE CRITERIA? WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? VERSUS GOING OUT AND GETTING ASSIGNED AND GOING TO THE PERMIT, LIKE, AND THEN FIND OUT, HEY, AFTER MY SIGN IS DONE, OH, YOU HAVE TO GO IN FRONT OF THE LANDMARK COMMITTEE.

LIKE, SO I JUST WANNA APOLOGIZE TO YOU GUYS BECAUSE I HAD NO IDEA AND NOBODY TOLD ME THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.

SO THAT'S JUST, WE HEAR THAT A LOT AND IT CAUSES A LOT OF UNNECESSARY STRESS AND PROBLEMS FOR PEOPLE AND WE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

YEAH.

IS OUR CITY ATTORNEY WISHING TO MAKE A COMMENT OR ARE YOU JUST SITTING OVER THERE? I GUESS SHE HAS NOTHING TO SAY.

ALL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER PREZI.

OH, SO THE BUILDING, UH, THE DESIGNATION REPORTS THAT THE BUILDING IS IN THREE PARTS, A FIVE STORY BLOCK ORIGINALLY LEASED TO THE A HARRIS DEPARTMENT STORE, A PROJECTING U-SHAPED BODY, A SMALL ONE STORY TOWER POSITIONED OVER THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE BUILDING AT MAIN AND AAKER.

SO THAT GIVES YOU, SO THEY WERE ALWAYS DIFFERENT.

THEY WERE ALWAYS DIFFERENT BUILDINGS SEEN.

YEAH, THEY'RE DIFFERENT.

COMMISSIONER PREKI.

SO THE QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT, UM, I KNOW THIS IS GOING TO BE ILLUMINATED AND THERE'S A, A MOCKUP OF IT AT NIGHT.

WILL IT BE ILLUMINATED ALL NIGHT OR JUST TILL A CERTAIN HOUR AND THEN GO OFF? IS IT ON A TIMER OR WHAT, WHAT, HOW DOES IT, SO THERE WILL BE A TIMER.

UM, IT WILL END AT 10 O'CLOCK.

10:00 PM 10:00 PM YES.

OKAY.

SO REALLY IT'S FIVE HOURS YOU'RE THINKING IF WHEN IT'S DARK OUT.

BUT, UM, I GUESS THEN THE OTHER QUESTION IS, OR I GUESS FOR FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, IS IT REALLY, IS IT THE ILLUMINATED PART OF THE SIGN THAT'S A PROBLEM? OR IS IT THE SCRIPT? I MEAN, THE SCRIPT REALLY IS KIND OF AN ART NOVO THOUGHT TO IT.

SO IT'S SORT OF IS A LITTLE HISTORIC LOOKING, BUT THE WHAT BREACHING? WELL, IF YOU'RE ASKING ME SINCE I WAS BROUGHT THIS I, THE, THE BACKLIT IS PROBABLY MORE THE ISSUE.

MM-HMM.

BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE CONTEMPORARY.

UM, I KNOW WE'VE LOOKED AT SIGNS BEFORE AND IF THIS IS A LOGO, THEN MAYBE THEIR LETTERHEAD, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT I WOULD'VE CHOSE, IF IT'S THEIR LETTERHEAD, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE ACTUAL SIGN.

BUT THE BACK LIT, THE GLOWING PLASTIC LOOK IS WHAT IS GONNA AFFECT THE BUILDING.

ALL RIGHT.

UNLESS MADAM CHAIR, COMMISSIONER OFFIT, I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION.

PLEASE GO AHEAD, SIR.

I MOVE THAT WE, UH, APPROVE AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF IN THE TASK FORCE FOR CASE NUMBER CA 2 3 4 DASH 46 RD 1511 MAIN STREET FOR THE SIGN.

SECOND.

THANK YOU COMM.

I THINK COMMISSIONER PEL WAS THE FIRST TO SECOND THAT.

IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE ON THIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER.

UM, WHEN I'M READING, WHEN I'M READING THE ORIGINAL DESIGNATION REPORT FOR THE LANDMARK COMMISSION, I'M SEEING A LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF A HUNDRED BY A HUNDRED FEET AT THAT CORNER.

UM, YOU KNOW, FROM MY MEASUREMENTS, THERE'S NO WAY THAT COULD INCLUDE THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY.

I THINK THE COMMISSION IS TRYING TO MAKE THIS HISTORIC BY ASSOCIATION.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

SO I'M GONNA STATE THAT FOR THE RECORD.

WELL, THANK YOU.

YOU COULD HAVE SAID THAT BEFORE THOUGH.

THAT WOULD'VE BEEN THAT'S FINE.

I, ANY OTHER COMMENTS PEOPLE WISH TO MAKE BEFORE WE VOTE ON THIS MOTION? COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, I GUESS MY QUESTION FOR COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER IS IF IT'S NOT PART OF THE COMPLEX, THEN IT SHOULDN'T HAVE COME BEFORE US IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.

BUT THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION FROM THE DESIGNATION REPORTS IS A HUNDRED BY A HUNDRED FEET IN THE KIRBY BUILDING.

WHEN I'M MEASURING ON GIS, THIS PORTION OF THE BUILDING'S, WELL OUTSIDE OF A HUNDRED BY FEET.

SO THERESA, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO STAFF.

THEY'RE THE ONE THAT ACCEPTED THE APPLICATION.

THEY DEEMED THAT THIS IS PART OF THIS CON THAT THIS WAS PART OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO I WOULD DEFER TO STAFF ON THAT.

AND SO DR. DUNN HELP US UNDERSTAND, OH, IN THE NOMINATION IT'S BOTH 1509 AND 1511, AND THIS IS 1511.

[00:40:03]

AND ALSO IN OUR DATABASE, WHEN YOU ENTER THE ADDRESS, IT ALSO COMES UP AS THE KIRBY BUSH BUILDING, WHICH IS A PART OF THIS DESIGNATED AREA.

IT DOES SHOW ON THE, UM, WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE CASE REPORT.

IT, IT SHOWS THE THREE LOTS IN A ROW THAT FACE ONTO COMMERCE.

SO I'M ASSUMING THAT THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE THE LITTLE, THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE SMALLER BUILDING.

SO WE MAY HAVE A WONKY LEGAL DESCRIPTION FROM 1987, THE HUNDRED, WHAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEGATE IT FROM RIGHT.

THIS, SO AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN THIS FIELD, IF THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION IS WRONG AND WELL, WHATEVER THE ORDINANCE STATES THAT LEGAL DESCRIPTION CONTROLS AND SO THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.

BUT IS THE VISUAL DRAWING I WAS JUST LOOKING AT ON KATE'S VERSION OF THE ORDINANCE, PART OF THE IT'S WRITTEN TOO? NO, I, I DON'T SEE IT.

I MEAN, I SEE A, I SEE A BOX SHOWING THE ROUGH LOCATION, BUT THAT'S AN EXHIBIT AND IT'S ALSO VERY CONCEPTUAL.

, I'M JUST APOLOGIZING OUR APPLICANTS.

WE CAN MAKE ANYTHING TAKE FOREVER.

DID WE NOT WARN YOU ABOUT THAT? ? I'LL, I'LL ADD, I'LL ADD THIS TOO.

WHAT'S CONFUSING THIS AS WELL IS SOME, SOME OF THE NATIONAL REGISTER INFORMATION SHOWS BOTH BUILDINGS.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THIS COMES FROM.

BUT FROM OUR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE HOW IT COULD INCLUDE THIS BUILDING.

XANAX.

WELL, SINCE IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO US, WE HAVE TO HEAR IT AND WE HAVE TO MAKE A JUDGMENT.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHY, HOW IT CAME TO US, WHETHER THE ORIGINAL SIGN PEOPLE TOLD THEM YOU HAVE TO GO GET CA IS THAT WHO IT, THE, THE CITY SIGN WAS? SO IF THERE WAS A MISTAKE MADE, IT WAS COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OUR STAFF.

IT WAS SOMEONE ELSE AIRING ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION, WHICH WE APPLAUD IN OTHER STAFF MEMBERS TO, TO CONSIDER HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

OKAY, I'M READY TO CALL FOR VOTE ON THIS.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

ALL THOSE OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? AYE.

ALRIGHT.

MEAN NAY , WE, WE GOT WHAT YOU MEANT.

WE SHOULD DO THE ROLL CALL VOTE.

JUST TO MAKE THIS TAKE LONGER.

DISTRICT ONE COMMISSIONER SHERMAN NAY.

DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY? YES.

DISTRICT THREE.

COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? YES.

I, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.

YES, YES.

DISTRICT FOUR.

COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? YES.

DISTRICT FIVE.

COMMISSIONER OFFIT? YES.

DISTRICT SIX.

COMMISSIONER OSA AYE.

DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER ACY.

DISTRICT NINE.

COMMISSIONER RENO? YES.

DISTRICT 11.

COMMISSIONER GIBSON? YES.

DISTRICT 12.

COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER AYE.

DISTRICT 13 COMMISSIONER ZIEL.

AYE.

DISTRICT 14 COMMISSIONER GUEST.

AYE.

COMMISSIONER ANDERSON A NAY.

UH, AND COMMISSIONER CUMMINS.

AYE.

WE HAVE TWO NOS.

SO THE MOTION HAS CARRIED.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BUSINESS, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR SIGN, , EVERYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE A HARD ROW AHEAD OF YOU.

IT'S HARD TO BE A BUSINESS OWNER OR MARRIED TO ONE.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT.

ALRIGHT.

IT'S TIME TO VOTE ON THE MINUTES.

OH, .

YEAH.

IT'S A SPA, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY IT'S PERFECT.

OH, OKAY.

ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS SO PERFECT, BUT NOW WE KNOW .

WOW.

OKAY, GOOD.

DID ANYBODY HAVE ANY, UM, CHANGES THEY THOUGHT WE NEEDED TO MAKE TO THE MINUTES AS SENT OUT BY ELAINE? UH, SEEING NONE.

WHO HAS A MOTION? SO MOVED.

WHO? COMMISSIONER.

COMMISSIONER OSA.

SECONDED.

SECOND.

COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERG IS SECONDED.

ALL IS IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES.

AYE, AYE.

AYE.

A ALL IS OPPOSED.

GOOD.

NOBODY.

THAT COMPLETES ALL OUR WORK FOR TODAY IN THE ABSOLUTE SHORTEST LANDMARK MEETING EVER IN ALL OF HISTORY.

SO ANYBODY WATCHING AND THINKING THIS IS NORMAL

[00:45:01]

? NOT AT ALL.

IT IS 1 45 AND THIS MEETING OF THE LANDMARK COMMISSION IS ADJOURNED.