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[00:00:02]

GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY.

WELCOME

[Landmark on April 1, 2024.]

TO THIS MEETING OF THE DALLAS LANDMARK COMMISSION.

IT IS, UH, 1 0 3 IN THE AFTERNOON ON APRIL 1ST, 2024.

UH, WE ARE IN SESSION WITH A QUORUM OF COMMISSIONERS BETWEEN THOSE HERE AND THOSE AT HOME.

UH, MY NAME IS EVELYN MONTGOMERY.

I AM THE CHAIR AND, UH, COMMISSIONER COURTNEY IS OUR VICE CHAIR.

AND LET US START BY HAVING A ROLL CALL OF COMMISSIONERS BY STAFF .

UM, DISTRICT ONE, COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.

PRESENT, DISTRICT TWO.

COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY PRESENT, DISTRICT THREE.

COMMISSIONER FOLKMAN.

PRESENT, DISTRICT FOUR.

COMMISSIONER TAYLOR, DISTRICT FIVE.

COMMISSIONER OFFIT.

PRESENT DISTRICT SIX.

COMMISSIONER HOSA.

PRESENT DISTRICT SEVEN.

COMMISSIONER LEVINSON IS NOT IN ATTENDANCE TODAY.

DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER.

SPELL DISTRICT NINE.

COMMISSIONER RENO.

PRESENT DISTRICT 11 DIS.

UM, COMMISSIONER GATE PRESENT? DISTRICT 12.

COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER.

PRESENT.

DISTRICT 13.

COMMISSIONER POSI PRESENT.

DISTRICT 14.

COMMISSIONER GUEST PRESENT, UH, ALTERNATE.

COMMISSIONER ANDERSON PRESENT.

ALTERNATE COMMISSIONER REEVES PRESENT, UH, AND CPC LIVES IN JOANNA HAMPTON.

THANK YOU.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU ELAINE.

UM, WE ALWAYS START BY ASKING IF THERE ARE ANY PUBLIC SPEAKERS HERE TO ADDRESS SOMETHING OTHER THAN SPECIFIC CASE.

THOSE REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL BE HEARD IN THEIR TURN AND USUALLY THERE IS NO ONE HERE WHO WANTS TO JUST SAY HI TO US.

SO WE JUST GET PAST THAT.

UH, NOW I BELIEVE OUR VICE CHAIR HAS SOME BUSINESS TO TAKE CARE OF MOTIONS TO MAKE.

I HAVE THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUALS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK HERE IN PERSON, RICK SMITH, JESSICA AND YVONNE GONZALEZ AS WELL.

UH, PHILIP KINGSTON AND TERRY RAY, IF YOU, UH, ARE PRESENT, BUT YOUR NAME WAS NOT CALLED, YOU NEED TO GET WITH, UM, GET WITH US TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE GET A FORM FILLED OUT.

OTHERWISE WE WON'T HAVE YOU IN THE QUEUE.

SO WITH THAT SAID, UM, FIRST LIKE TO MOVE TO, UM, ADDRESS SOME OF OUR CONSENT ITEMS. SO MOVE TO APPROVE PER STAFF RECOMMENDATION, CONSENT ITEMS ONE THROUGH THREE AND FIVE THROUGH EIGHT.

SO MOVED.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER PEL AND I BELIEVE IT WAS COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER WHO SECONDED THAT FIRST.

UM, WE WILL GO FORWARD WITH THAT VOTE UNLESS THERE'S ANYBODY WHO HAD SOMETHING TO SAY ON THOSE CASES OTHER THAN TO JUST ANSWER QUESTIONS.

WE ARE MOVING TO FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, SO IF YOU LIKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, YOU'RE SET.

AND COMMISSIONER J TAYLOR HAS JUST JOINED US ONLINE.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION TO APPROVE THESE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS? AYE.

AYE.

ANY YE.

OKAY.

THAT HAS CARRIED.

SO IF YOU WERE ONE OF THOSE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS OTHER THAN FOUR OR NINE, YOU HAVE BEEN, UM, GIVEN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, WHICH IS USUALLY APPROVALS.

GREAT QUESTIONS.

ALRIGHT, WITH THAT, UM, I RECOMMEND THAT WE ARRANGE THE AGENDA THIS AFTERNOON AS FOLLOWS, STARTING WITH OUR COURTESY REVIEW FOLLOWED BY DISCUSSION ITEM SIX, THEN CONSENT TO ITEM FOUR, CONSENT ITEM NINE, AND THEN DISCUSSION ITEMS ONE THROUGH FIVE, UM, IN THAT ORDER.

SO MOVED SECOND.

SORRY, BEEN MOVED.

WE NEED A SECOND.

COMMISSIONER PREZI, YOU'RE A SECOND.

ALRIGHT.

UM, AND THE, THE TWO CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS HAVE BEEN MOVED AT THE REQUEST OF COMMISSIONERS, BY THE WAY.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION? AYE.

SAY AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? OKAY.

SO WE ARE READY TO GO IF THAT CALLS UP.

FIRST.

OUR COURTESY REVIEW IS OUR SPEAKER PRESENT.

I THINK WE KNOW IF HE WANTS TO.

IS OUR SPEAKER ONLINE? ADRIAN? MR. KINGSTON? HE IS ONLINE.

OKAY, THEN WE COULD PULL HIM UP.

WELCOME, MR. KINGSTON.

WE WERE JUST ABOUT TO HAVE, UM, STAFF, UH, START US OFF WITH WHATEVER THEY NEED TO SAY ABOUT THIS COURTESY REVIEW YOU'RE HERE FOR.

HEY, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

[00:05:01]

ALL RIGHT.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

THIS IS DR.

RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF COURTESY REVIEW ITEM ONE.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 7 0 1 COMMERCE STREET AND THE WEST END HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THE CASE NUMBER IS CR 2 34 DASH 11 RD AND THE REQUEST IS FOR A COURTESY REVIEW TO CREATE A NEW SIGNED SUBDISTRICT IN THE WEST END HISTORIC SIGNED DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS, IT'S A COURTESY REVIEW SO NO ACTION IS REQUIRED.

THAT THE REQUEST ALSO THAT THE REQUEST TO CREATE A NEW SIGNED SUBDISTRICT IN THE WEST END HISTORIC SIGN DISTRICT BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN AS WELL AS ANY ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE TO BE SUBMITTED FOR SPECIAL SIGNED DISTRICT ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEW.

THANK YOU.

UH, OUR SPEAKER, MR. KINGSTON, I NEED YOU TO GIVE US YOUR FULL NAME AND YOUR, UM, ADDRESS AND THEN SWEAR TO TELL US THE TRUTH.

MM-HMM.

, I CERTAINLY SWEAR TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

I'M PHILLIP KINGSTON.

5 9 0 1 PALO PINTO.

UM, THE PROPERTY IS THE HISTORIC MKT HEADQUARTERS BUILDING.

IT'S 7 0 1 COMMERCE.

UM, IT'S A VERY PRETTY BUILDING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE EAST FACING WALL, WHICH USED TO BE SANDWICHED WITH ANOTHER BUILDING.

SO THERE ARE NO WINDOWS OR ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT WALL.

AND WHAT WE PROPOSED TO DO IS PUT UP SOME NON-PREMISE ADVERTISING SIGNAGE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU ALL HAVE SEEN ON THE FIRST BUILDING AND ON THE ANTIOCH CHURCH.

UM, THESE KINDS OF NON-PREMISE ADVERTISING SIGNS PROVIDE, UH, DESPERATELY NEEDED MONTHLY INCOME FOR BUILDINGS THAT DO NOT REALLY GENERATE MARKET LEVELS OF RENT BECAUSE OF LACK OF PARKING AND AMENITIES.

AND BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS KEEP THESE ADAPTIVE REUSES ECONOMICALLY VIABLE GOING FORWARD SO THAT THE BUILDING IS PROTECTED.

AS, AS YOU ALL KNOW, THERE IS, THERE'S REALLY NO SUCH THING AS PRESERVATION WITHOUT ADAPTIVE REUSE.

UM, AND I THINK THAT THIS WILL BE YET ANOTHER, UH, BENEFICIAL ADVERTISING SIGN FOR A WEST END HISTORIC PROPERTY.

DR. DUNN, UH, WILL BE EVALUATING ANY CHANGES IN THE ADVERTISING AS WE GO FORWARD, AS SHE DOES FOR THE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I MENTIONED.

AND, UH, I THINK THAT'S WORKED VERY WELL.

I DON'T THINK, I DON'T, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT, UH, THOSE ADVERTISING SIGNS AND I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT YOU ALL WILL PROVIDE US WITH WHATEVER USEFUL INPUT YOU HAVE, UH, FOR OUR PLANS FOR THE, UH, IF THERE ARE CHANGE YOU ALL WANNA SEE MADE, OBVIOUSLY I WANNA HEAR THEM TODAY OR THEY CAN BE COMMUNICATED THROUGH DR. DUNN IN THE FUTURE.

I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS.

COMMISSIONER OSI, I, I GET TO GO FIRST I GUESS.

YOU DO? YES.

UH, SO QUESTION FOR STAFF.

ARE THERE ANY OVERARCHING SIGN REGULATIONS FOR SUPERGRAPHICS WITHIN DOWNTOWN? AND IF SO, IS THERE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SUPER GRAPHIC SIGNS THAT ARE ALLOWED UNDER THAT? OKAY.

REGULATION.

WE STILL DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO HOW MANY ARE ALLOWED.

WE DO UNDERSTAND, AND I DID BRING UP AS ASKED EARLIER, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE PURSE BUILDING AS WELL AS ON THE ANTIOCH CHURCH.

OKAY.

UH, EACH ONE OF THESE HAS AN AMENDMENT TO THE WEST END DISTRICT FOR THE SUPER GRAPHIC SIGN, ALONG WITH RULES THAT THE SIGN DIVISION FOLLOWS.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHENEVER I RECEIVE AN ADVERTISEMENT, IT HAS TO GO NOT JUST THROUGH OUR DEPARTMENT, BUT IT ALSO HAS TO GO THROUGH SPSD, THE SPECIAL PURPOSE SIGN DISTRICTS OFFICIALS FOR EVALUATION OF APPROPRIATENESS, ET CETERA.

SO THIS IS THE ONE ON THE PURSE BUILDING AS ASKED EARLIER, 6 0 1 ELM STREET, THIS IS FACING NORTH MARKET STREET.

AND THEN THE SECOND ONE ON THE ANTIOCH CHURCH, THIS IS THE SUPER GRAPHIC SIGN ON THE ANTIOCH CHURCH.

AND THAT'S AT 8 0 5 ELMA STREET.

BUT YOU CAN SEE IT OR IT'S FACING LAMAR STREET.

THANK YOU.

WE'RE GETTING THOSE.

[00:10:02]

AND I DO RECALL THAT WHEN BOTH OF THOSE CAME THROUGH, THEY ARE LIMITED IN SIZE TO NOT COVER UP THE IMPORTANT PART OF THE BUILDING AND THAT THE FIRST BUILDING HAS AN OLD PAINTED ADVERTISEMENT AND THIS ONE HAS THAT ANTIOX SIGN AND WE SPECIFIED THAT THEY NOT COVER THAT UP OR INTERFERE WITH IT IN ANY WAY.

YES.

BUT THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS, THIS KATY BUILDING BECAUSE IT APPEARS TO JUST ALL BE READ SO WELL THAT, BUT WHAT WHAT MAY APPLY IS, UM, THE SIGN DISTRICT MANAGER SAID TO ME THAT THEY MAY BE LIMITED TO 1200 SQUARE FEET.

IN OTHER WORDS, BECAUSE IT'S A FEDERAL ARTERIAL AND THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE HIGHWAY BEAUTIFICATION ACT.

SO, BUT HE'S NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW BIG IT CAN BE.

OKAY.

BUT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THERE ARE NO FEATURES ON THAT WALL THAT NEED TO BE SAVED OR PROTECTED.

AND THAT IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S JOB TO DECIDE IF IT MEETS THE HIGHWAY BEAUTIFICATION RIGHT.

ACT OR WHATEVER YOU SAY.

YES.

ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? IS THERE ANY STUDY OR ANY BACKGROUND AS TO HOW MANY OTHER BLANK WALLS MAY BE IN THE WEST END HISTORIC DISTRICT? I KNOW WE HAVE TWO, BUT MAYBE THREE IS OKAY, BUT IF WE HAVE SIX OR SEVEN, I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF THESE.

I THINK THEY'RE BILLBOARDS AND YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT IT.

ALSO, WHAT BOTHERS ME A BIG TIME IS THAT THERE IS NO SIGN FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THERE'S NO SIGN REGULATIONS REALLY.

I MEAN, YOU COULD HAVE, I, I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN A KIND OF A HALF NAKED COWGIRL WITH A BEER IN HER HAND ON ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S FINE.

SO MY CONCERN IS THAT THERE IS NO QUALIFIER FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

SO YOU CAN, YOU'RE LUCKY IF YOU GET SOMETHING NICE, BUT YOU COULD GET SOMETHING A LITTLE WEIRD TOO.

SO THAT'S, I THINK IT'S A BILLBOARD AND I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF THEM, BUT THE GENIE'S ALREADY OUT OF THE BOTTLE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

SO, UM, DOES STAFF OR MR. KINGSTON WISH TO MAKE ANY COMMENT ABOUT THIS? I, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO HEAR EACH CASE ON ITS OWN MERIT.

SO DO, DO WE KNOW OF ANY OTHER, HOW MANY, I'M SORRY, I KINDA RAMBLED.

DO WE KNOW HOW MANY OTHER POSSIBLE PLACES ARE FOR THE SCIENCE CAN GO? DO I HAVE NOT CONDUCTED A SURVEY TO SEE? I COULD POSSIBLY DO THAT WITHIN THE NEXT MONTH AND MAYBE GIVE YOU A REPORT IN MAY ON IT.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS OR RECOMMENDATIONS? I BELIEVE THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE THINK, UM, THEY OUGHT TO BE THINKING ABOUT AS THEY MOVE FORWARD IN SIGN SELECTION AND ERECTION.

WE, OF COURSE, ALWAYS DON'T WANT THERE TO BE ANY DAMAGE TO THE BUILDING AND SO ANY ANCHORS FOR IT SHOULD BE PUT INTO THE, UM, MORTAR BETWEEN THE BRICKS AND NOT INTO THE BRICKS BECAUSE THE BRICKS DON'T LIKE THAT AND THEY CRACK ALL UP AND FALL OUT.

SO I'M SURE THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE WILL BE WATCHING ALL ALONG THE PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T DAMAGE THE BUILDING.

ANY OTHER CONCERNS? INSTALLER WHO HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO THIS SUCCESSFULLY ON THE OTHER BUILDINGS? AND WE ALSO ARE AWARE OF AT LEAST ONE INSTALLER WHO'S BEEN BAD AT IT, SO WE'LL AVOID THAT ONE.

OKAY.

GOOD.

I'M GLAD YOU'RE BEING REASONABLE AND EXPLORING ALL OPTIONS AND POOR OPTIONS.

ALRIGHTYY.

ANYBODY, ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY? LA COMMISSIONER TT? I CAN'T.

OH, I CAN SEE YOU NOW.

YEAH, GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER TT, I'M SORRY, I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR THAT THE REQUEST IS SIMPLY FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, NOT FOR ANY SPECIFIC APPROVAL.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS RIGHT.

UM, YES.

WE'RE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE APPROVING THE CONCEPT OF HAVING SUCH ADVERTISEMENTS HUNG ON THIS BUILDING.

IT IS.

LAST I HEARD FROM THOSE WITH MORE LEGAL EXPERTISE.

WE DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS IN OUR, IF IT WAS IN OUR, WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO ACTUALLY APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE OF THIS.

BUT WE CAN CHIME IN AND THEN OF COURSE THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BE LOOKING INTO IT AND DR. DUNN WILL BE REVIEWING THE SPECIFIC ADVERTISEMENTS THAT GO UP.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HER STANDARDS FOR REVIEW WILL BE, BUT PRESUMABLY SHE WOULD NOT ALLOW 'EM TO ADVERTISE HISTORIC PRESERVATION AS EVIL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT OF COURSE, OTHER THAN THAT IT'S JUST AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR SOMETHING.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD LUNCH FOR WATCHES AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS UP THERE.

THANK YOU.

THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

AND I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS BECAUSE ADAPTION IS WHAT KEEPS THESE BUILDINGS GOING.

YEAH, I I I ASSUME THIS BUILDING DOESN'T GET A LOT OF TENANTS 'CAUSE IT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY PARKING, BUT IT'S A BEAUTIFUL, WONDERFUL BUILDING.

ONE OF MY FAVORITES DOWNTOWN.

SO I HOPE THIS WILL HELP KEEP IT IN SHAPE AND, UH, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMISSIONER SHERMAN HAS SOMETHING TO SAY, UM, MR. KINGSTON, I, I DON'T FEEL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ABOUT THE SUPERGRAPHICS OTHER THAN THE ONES THAT I FIND ARE RATHER MISSED OPPORTUNITIES TO PUT UP SOMETHING THAT IS INSPIRATIONAL.

AND IN THIS

[00:15:01]

CASE, I MEAN, THE KATY BUILDING IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE BUILDINGS OF ALL IN DALLAS.

AND I WOULD HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TIME TO CHOOSE, ASSUMING THE MARKET SUPPORTS, YOU KNOW, PLENTY A CHOICE THAT THERE MIGHT BE A REALLY GREAT LOOKING ADVERTISEMENT UP THERE THAT DOES CONTRIBUTE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW REMARKABLY PRETTY THIS BUILDING IS.

AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, SOME GREAT TONE SETTING THOUGHTS THAT, UM, COULD SPEAK WELL, UH, ON THE STREETS LATE.

THANK YOU.

THE, UH, I'LL SAY THAT THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING IS A, A MEDIUM SIZED, UH, OFFICE INVESTOR AND MANAGEMENT COMPANY, UM, THAT OWNS HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN MULTIPLE CITIES, AUSTIN, DALLAS, UM, KANSAS CITY AND CHICAGO.

AND THEY ARE COMMITTED TO THESE KINDS OF BUILDINGS AND PRESERVING THEM AND ALSO OF CHOOSING ADVERTISEMENTS THAT ARE, UM, COMPATIBLE WITH THE AREAS THAT THEY OWN IN.

THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UH, THESE GUYS ARE NOT JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, STANDARD OFFICE, UM, OPERATORS.

THEY, THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THE ASSETS THEY HAVE ARE SPECIAL.

ALRIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR LETTING US KNOW THAT.

I HOPE THEY WILL BE CAREFUL.

I, YOU COULD CERTAINLY TRY TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT LOOKS HISTORIC.

LIKE SOME OF THOSE OLD PAINTED ADS, PEOPLE LOOK TWICE AT THAT, YOU KNOW, OR AT LEAST ARTISTICALLY BEAUTIFUL.

BUT I REALIZE THAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR AND ADVERTISERS KNOW WHAT WORKS FOR THEM.

SO I THINK THAT IS OUR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF, OF THE IDEA OF YOU MOVING FORWARD.

I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE TO TALK TO, INCLUDING THE HIGHWAY BEAUTIFICATION PEOPLE AND OTHER HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH.

BUT WE APPRECIATE YOU VISITING US AND BRING US THIS, UM, LOVELY CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL BUILDING.

MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU.

BYE-BYE.

OKAY, NEXT UP IS ONE OF OUR FAVORITE TYPES OF CASES.

THE INITIATION OF A NEW LANDMARK TO BE PROTECTED FOR THE FUTURE D SIX AND STAFF WILL TELL US WHAT THAT'S ABOUT AND PERHAPS COMMISSIONER GUEST WILL ALSO WISH TO SPEAK.

OKAY.

? YEAH.

DISCUSSION ITEM D SIX.

OKAY.

THE SUBJECT.

THIS IS DR.

RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF.

DISCUSSION ITEM D SIX.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 1518 ABRAMS ROAD.

IT'S REFERRED TO, OR IT'S CALLED THE SHACK.

THE REQUEST IS FOR A PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE INITIATION OF THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION PROCESS FOR 1518 ABRAMS ROAD.

THE SHACK.

NOW, UM, MS. RA GAVE ME A PRESENTATION.

DO YOU HAVE TO SWEAR HER IN? OKAY.

SHE STILL NEEDS TO GO THROUGH THE HONOR'S PROCESS OF TELLING ME HER NAME AND ADDRESS.

MM-HMM, .

OKAY.

IS THAT MICROPHONE ON? I WAS ACTUALLY ASKING DR. DUNN BECAUSE NO ONE COULD EVER DEAL.

I SEE, I SEE A GREEN LIGHT NOW AND, AND I, OKAY.

THERE IT IS.

OKAY.

NOW, NOW THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

DO YOU SWEAR OR PROMISE TO TELL US THE TRUTH? I'M GONNA TRY MY BEST TAKE THAT.

ALRIGHT, GO AHEAD MA'AM.

TELL US ABOUT THIS WONDERFUL PLACE.

UH, MY NAME IS TERRY RAATH.

I HAVE LIVED AT THE SHACK NOW FOR A LITTLE OVER 20 YEARS.

IT WAS BUILT BY ROGER D. MCINTOSH.

HE WAS A STAINED GLASS ARTIST IN DALLAS.

THESE ARE A FEW OF THE PROJECTS THAT, UH, I WAS ABLE TO ACQUIRE PICTURES OF FOR THIS PRESENTATION.

UH, IT STARTED IN 1918.

THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I DISCOVERED IT ON A CITY PLAT AS A TWO CAR GARAGE WITH TWO ROOMS ON TOP.

THERE WAS NEVER A FRONT HOUSE BUILT.

IT WAS ORIGINALLY ON TREMONT UNTIL TREMONT WAS CANNIBALIZED TO, FOR THE ABRAMS CONNECTION TO COLUMBIA TO COME DOWNTOWN.

THAT HAPPENED, THEY PURCHASED THE LAND ABOUT 1971.

THEY ACTUALLY BUILT THAT ABOUT 81.

THEY DEMOLISHED ALL HOMES ON THIS SIDE OF TREMONT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SHACK BECAUSE IT STARTED AT THE VERY BACK CORNER OF THE LOT.

THAT IS THE EARLIEST PICTURE THAT I KNOW OF FOR THE SHACK.

AND I, ROGER AND HIS MOTHER BOUGHT IT FROM VIRGINIA LIPSCOMB IN 1922.

HE IMMEDIATELY

[00:20:01]

TURNED IT INTO A DOMICILE AND STARTED TO DO SOME SMALL ADDITIONS.

IN 1929, HE BUILT A COMPLETE WING OFF THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH INCLUDED A BEDROOM DOWNSTAIRS, A HALF BATH AND A SOLARIUM.

I THINK AT THAT TIME HE ENLARGED THE DINING ROOM AND KITCHEN AS WELL.

IN 1939, HE WAS MARRIED.

HIS WIFE WAS ALSO A STAINLESS ARTIST NAMED GEORGIA JENSEN.

THEY WORKED FOR PITTSBURGH, ART GLASS, THEIR WHOLE CAREERS.

UH, BUT IN 1939 HE AND GEORGIA BUILT A LARGE WING COMING OFF THE FRONT FOR THEIR ATELIER.

THEY WERE ACTUALLY PRODUCING LARGE WORKS OF GLASS FOR DIFFERENT PLACES THERE AT THE HOUSE.

AND SO IN TURN, THE HOUSE IS A WORK OF ART IN ITS TOTALITY.

AND I GOT IT WHEN I BOUGHT IT 21 YEARS AGO, IT WAS REALLY A CRUMBLING WRECK.

THE WHOLE BACKSIDE WAS BEING EATEN UP BY CARPENTER ANTS.

UH, THE STEEL ROOF WAS IN REALLY BAD REPAIR.

IT FLOODED FROM ABOVE AND BELOW.

IT WAS A MISS, BUT IT WAS DELIGHTFUL.

I TOOK IT ON WHEN I FIRST BOUGHT IT, WE WERE NOT EVEN YET A HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT I WAS INTENT ON RESTORATION, NOT REMODELING EVER, EVER, EVER.

UH, I REALLY DO TREASURE THE, THE ARTFUL DETAILS IN THERE.

HE NOT ONLY DID STAINED GLASS, HE CARVED WOOD, HE WORKED IN METAL WORK AND THERE, THERE ARE JUST ANYWHERE HE COULD EMBELLISH IN THE HOME.

HE DID.

IT'S A VERY TINY HOME.

ONE THING, IT, IT WAS INDUCTED ONTO THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES IN 83, SHORTLY AFTER ROGER'S DEATH, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE NEIGHBORS AND SOME OF THE SWISS AVENUE FOLKS KNEW THAT IT NEEDED TO BE PRESERVED.

BUT WHEN I BOUGHT IT IN 2004, IT HAD SUFFERED FOR 20 YEARS OF SLOW NEGLECT.

AND, AND, UH, THE PERSON THAT HAD OWNED IT IN THAT INTERIM BETWEEN ROGER MCINTOSH AND ME, SHE LOVED IT, BUT SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE MEANS OR THE WHEREWITHAL OR, YOU KNOW, JUST FLAT OUT THE MONEY TO DO ANYTHING.

AND IT WAS CRUMBLING.

AND SO I TOOK THIS ON.

I HAVE WORKED ON IT NOW FOR 20 YEARS.

WE GOT HIT, WE WERE AT ZERO GROUND ZERO FOR THE BIG HAILSTORM.

AND UH, THAT JUST TOOK IT BACK ALMOST TO THE STARTING LINE .

BUT NOW IT IS IN THE BEST SHAPE.

I THINK IT'S BEEN IN 50 YEARS.

I WON AN AWARD FROM PRESERVATION DALLAS IN 2019 FOR THE RESTORATION.

I AM MORE PROUD OF THAT THAN ANYTHING I'VE EVER ACCOMPLISHED IN MY LIFE.

I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE DECLARED A CITY OF DALLAS LANDMARK BECAUSE I'M A NATIVE DALLAS HEIGHTS.

I'M 71.

THAT HOUSE IS 105.

I THINK WE'RE BOTH GONNA START DECLINING AT THIS POINT, BUT AS LONG AS I WALK THE EARTH, IT IS PROTECTED.

IT'S WHAT HAPPENS AFTER I LEAVE.

AND I, I HAVE NO PLANS TO CHANGE ANYTHING.

THE ONLY THING I DO NOW IS BASICALLY ROUTINE MAINTENANCE, WHICH WITH A HOUSE LIKE THE SHACK IS HARDLY EVER ROUTINE.

BUT I DO WANT IT PRESERVED.

IT IS AN ANOMALY.

I WAS A REALTOR FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

THAT HOUSE IS NOT ONLY UNIQUE TO DALLAS, IT'S UNIQUE IN THE WORLD.

THERE ARE NOT MANY PLACES THAT WE PRESERVE THAT AREN'T NUMBER ONE A RICH MAN'S MANSION OR SOMETHING THAT WAS BUILT AND DESIGNED BY A FAMOUS ARCHITECT.

AND THIS IS NEITHER ONE.

BUT HE DID WORK WITH THE BEST ARCHITECTS OF THE DAY AND HE ROBBED AND STOLE IDEAS JUST LIKE ALL ARTISTS DO.

AND HE INCORPORATED THEM INTO THIS SMALL HOUSE.

IT IS STILL A SMALL HOUSE.

IT, IT, IT IS DESIGNATED AS 2200 SQUARE FEET, BUT IT ACTUALLY TO ME FEELS SMALLER BECAUSE IT WAS ADDED ON AND ADDED ON.

SO YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF BIG OPENINGS TO IT, BUT IT IS NOT A RICH MAN'S HOUSE AND IT WILL NEVER BE.

AND SO I HOPE THAT WE CAN PRESERVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS AT, LIKE I SAY, IT IS MY HOME.

I'M GOING TO, I THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO A TOUR IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS WHERE ANY OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR CAN COME SEE IT FIRSTHAND.

I REGULARLY HAVE HAD HAD IT ON TOURS, BUT IT IS WHERE I LIVE AND I WILL BE THERE UNTIL I DROP.

SO , THIS IS BASICALLY TO ENSURE

[00:25:01]

THAT WHATEVER HAPPENS AFTER I LEAVE THAT NO ONE CAN TEAR THIS DOWN.

SO, ANY QUESTIONS? I'LL BE GLAD I, I WAS NOT PREPARED TO SPEAK SO WELL, THANK YOU FOR BEING SO RESPONSIBLE AND WANTING TO LOOK FORWARD TO TAKING THE CARE, CARE OF THE PROPERTY EVEN WHEN YOU'RE NOT THERE TO TAKE CARE OF IT ANYMORE.

NOT EVERYBODY THINKS THAT WAY.

I I KNOW IT.

I SEE IT EVERY DAY.

.

I'M SURE YOU DO.

SO, UM, ARE THERE ANY COMMISSIONERS WHO WISH TO SPEAK COMMISSIONER RES? YES.

I, I I MOVE TO REQUEST PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER THE INITIATION OF THIS HOUSE.

ALRIGHT, I THOUGHT WE'RE GONNA TALK SOME MORE FIRST, NOT THAT WE ARE GONNA DISPUTE IT.

NO, I'M WANTED TO MAKE .

OKAY.

ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY THOUGHTS UPON, WELL, COMMISSIONER PRESI HAS HIS LIGHT ON.

YES.

SO I JUST WANTED TO THANK, UH, MS. RAY FOR, FOR DOING THIS.

UM, 'CAUSE IT'S A VERY SPECIAL HOUSE.

MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN THERE AND YOU GRACIOUSLY HAVE IT OPEN FOR TOUR FOR PEOPLE TO SEE.

AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU FOR GOING TO THIS LEVEL EVEN THOUGH IT'S CURRENTLY PROTECTED, BUT TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE SPECIAL AS A CITY OF DALLAS LANDMARK.

SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS TO GET THAT DONE.

I LOVE SHARING THE SHACK IT'S AND CHAIR POINT OF ORDER.

THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR WITHOUT A SECOND.

OKAY.

UM, DO WE HAVE A SECOND FOR COMMISSIONER RE I'LL SECOND IT.

THANK YOU.

MR. ANDERSON, COMMISSIONER GUEST.

YOU WERE THE ONE WHO FIRST PUT FORTH THE REQUEST THAT WE CONSIDER THIS INITIATION.

I'M SURE YOU'D LIKE TO COMMENT UPON THE WONDERFUL JOB THAT'S BEEN DONE WORKING ON IT SO FAR.

YES.

UM, I WANT TO, UH, VERY MUCH THANK MSRA FOR, UH, BRINGING THIS TO OUR ATTENTION TO, UM, HER TIRELESS DEDICATION AT TRYING TO RESTORE, UH, UM, SOMETHING THAT IF SHE HADN'T DONE THAT WOULD NOT BE WORTHY OF DE DE DEDICATION.

UM, HER EFFORTS OVER THE LAST 21 YEARS HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE.

I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO, TO TOUR THE HOUSE ONE-ON-ONE WITH HER.

AND IT IS A, IT, AS SHE SAYS, A VERY UNIQUE PROPERTY.

UM, IT'S, IT'S, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, IT COVERS EIGHT OF THE 10 DESIGNATION CRITERIA.

UM, AND, UM, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS IN, IN, IN TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS HOUSE WILL BE ABLE TO BE SEEN FOR MANY, MANY YEARS TO COME.

YOU ARE, UM, GOING BACK AND, AND TRYING TO ACQUIRE NOT ONLY THE HOUSE, BUT THE THINGS IN THE HOUSE THAT WERE TAKEN OUT OF THE HOUSE TO TRY TO GET IT BACK ACCORDING TO IS, UH, WORKROOM AND SOME OF HIS TOOLS AND SOME OF THE DRAWINGS AND PHOTOGRAPHS AND ALL OF THE HISTORY THAT SHE HAS TIRELESSLY PUT TOGETHER SO THAT SHE CAN CONTINUE TO SHOW THIS HOUSE AS THE THE INCREDIBLE PIECE OF, OF ART THAT IT ACTUALLY IS.

SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER FOR BRINGING THIS TO OUR ATTENTION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I KNOW WE STALLED YOU FOR A MONTH, BUT WE, WE KNEW THIS ONE WAS SAFE.

NOBODY WAS GONNA DO ANYTHING TO THIS ONE BECAUSE IT'S IN THE HANDS OF A RESPONSIBLE OWNER THAT LOVES IT.

AND IF YOU CAN GO ON THE TOUR, I IMPLORE YOU TWO 'CAUSE IT IS SOMETHING, A PRETTY DALLAS TOUR OR IT'S SOMETHING TO SEE.

I THINK SHE'S, UH, OPENING UP FOR THE, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION.

DR.

DUN? YES.

COME SEE.

YES, WE'RE SCHEDULED.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT IN DESIGNATION COMMITTEE MEETING, BUT WE'RE DOING ONE OF OUR FIELD TRIPS OUTSIDE THIS.

OKAY, WELL THAT SHOULD BE FINE.

AND WE ALL LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE WE VOTE? COMMISSIONER SHERMAN.

UM, GARY, I'M EXCITED FOR YOU.

UM, CAN YOU HEAR ME? I, I'M EXCITED FOR YOU AND I APPLAUD YOUR ENERGY AND YOUR EFFORTS AND I'M EXCITED TO HEAR ABOUT MR. MACINTOSH AND EVERYTHING THAT HE DID.

AND I BELIEVE ALSO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE HUMBLE AND MODEST IN COMPARISON TO THE GRANDIOSE DESERVE PROTECTION AND, AND SPECIAL NOTORIETY.

AND, UM, I EVEN DROVE BY, BUT I CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE STREET.

SO, AND I LOVE THAT I'M SURE, BUT I JUST HAVE THIS FEELING THAT WHEN WE'VE GOT A LANDMARK LIKE THIS THAT'S GOT SPECIAL RECORD, IT SHOULD BE SEEN FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

MAYBE NOT TOTALLY, BUT AT LEAST LIKE THIS SO THAT YOU CAN KIND OF GLIMPSE IT, IT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE NUMBER ONE, THAT FRONT FENCE IS GRANDFATHERED IN BECAUSE WHEN ABRAMS CUT THROUGH THERE, THEY TOOK 45 FEET OFF THE FRONT YARD.

AND TWO, THERE IS NO BACKYARD.

THE HOUSE STARTS AT THE BACK FENCE AND IT BASICALLY GOES UP ONE SIDE OF THE LOT.

SO ALL I HAVE IS A SIDE YARD AND WITHOUT THAT FRONT FENCE, THERE WOULD BE NO PRIVACY OR PROTECTION FROM ABRAMS ROAD.

I WILL BE ADAMANT THAT I WANT TO KEEP A FENCE

[00:30:01]

OUT FRONT AS LONG AS I'M THERE.

IF IT IS NOT A, A HOME, IF IT WERE, SAY A MUSEUM OR SOMETHING LATER, THEN MAYBE THE FENCE COULD COME DOWN.

BUT AS LONG AS I'M THERE, I WILL ADAMANTLY I, I WOULD FOREGO THE DESIGNATION IF IT REQUIRED ME TO TAKE DOWN MY FRONT FENCE BECAUSE I WOULD NO LONGER HAVE THE PRIVACY AND SECURITY THAT I NEED.

I WASN'T NECESSARILY CONCERNED ABOUT, UM, THE FENCE, YOU KNOW, CURRENTLY OR WHATEVER.

I JUST WANTED TO, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW.

I, EVEN WITH THE FOLIAGE, IT'S A REALLY HARD HOUSE TO GET ANY SHOT.

THERE IS NO FRONTAL SHOT.

YOU CAN SEE THE FRONT, YOU CAN SEE THE GARAGE FROM THE STREET, BUT YOU ENTER THE GATE AND PROBABLY WALK 75 FEET TO THE FRONT DOOR BECAUSE IT'S TUCKED BACK IN AN ELBOW.

AND BELIEVE ME, WITH THE GROWTH OF THE TREES AND THINGS, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO EVER GET A, A FULL SHOT OF THE SHACK.

THAT PICTURE YOU'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS THE BACK WING AND THAT IS TAKEN OFF THE SIDE.

THE ONLY REASON IT'S CLEAR THERE'S THE PATIO THERE.

THAT PATIO IS ACTUALLY CONSTRUCTED OUT OF COBBLESTONE THAT HE SALVAGED WHEN THEY DEMOLISHED ROSS AVENUE.

HE WAS A SCOTSMAN THAT USED EVERYTHING THAT HE COULD.

AND I'M NOT SCOTCH, BUT I WORKED THE SAME WAY.

SO THANK YOU.

ALRIGHT.

AND REMEMBER THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE ALWAYS WORKS COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY TO COME UP WITH THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE AND THE REQUIREMENTS.

SO WE'LL, WE'LL BE WORKING ON THAT.

AND, AND TERRY'S JUST BEEN WONDERFUL WORKING WITH THE DESTINATION COMMITTEE AND SO I THINK WE'RE READY TO CALL FOR A VOTE ON THIS.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF INITIATING, I HAD A QUESTION.

AYE.

OH, HANG ON.

I I HAD MY HAND UP THERE SOMETIME.

UH, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A, A BEAUTIFUL RESTORATION WORK, BUT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE PICTURE ON THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER.

WHAT ARE THE TWO, UH, VERTICAL PILLARS AND THE HORIZONTAL PILLAR, UH, THAT SHOWS LIKE IT'S ON AN EMPTY FIELD? I'M SORRY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT QUESTION.

SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORIC PHOTOGRAPH.

OH YES.

OH, THAT SHOWED THE GATE, THE ORIGINAL TREMONT ARCHES WERE RIGHT ONE OF THOSE, THAT RIGHT ARCH WAS ON THE CORNER OF THE PROPERTY OF THE SHACK.

IT SPANNED TREMONT.

THERE IS ACTUALLY AN ORNAMENTAL IRON ARCH OVER THE CONCRETE OR BRICK ARCH.

THERE WERE ALSO SMALLER, LIKE IF YOU LOOK TO THE SIDE OF EACH ONE ON THE SIDE OF THE SIDEWALK, THERE IS A SMALLER PILLAR, PROBABLY MAYBE EIGHT FEET TALL.

AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY ON THE CORNER OF THE SHACK PROPERTY THAT IS THE PICTURE OF TREMONT.

AND THAT'S TAKEN BASICALLY FROM THE DRIVEWAY AT THE SHACK.

I, I DON'T KNOW WHO TOOK THAT PICTURE, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE ARCHES.

AND IN 71 THE CITY PURCHASED THAT WHOLE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF TREMONT.

I HAVE A COPY OF THE PLAT THAT THE CITY SENT TO ROGER MACINTOSH.

I FORGET WHAT AMOUNT THEY PAID HIM FOR THE 45 FEET.

BUT EVERY OTHER HOUSE, THE HOUSE THAT YOU SEE IN THAT UPPER RIGHT PHOTOGRAPH THAT TO THE RIGHT OF THE TOWERS, THAT IS LONG GONE BECAUSE EVERY HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT ON TREMONT WAS APPROXIMATELY 10 OR 12 FEET INTO THE EASEMENT REQUIRED FOR ABRAMS. AND SO THEY BOUGHT THAT SIDE OF THE STREET.

THE SHACK ONLY REMAINED BECAUSE IT DID START AT THE VERY, VERY BACK CORNER.

AND SO IT WAS THE ONLY HOUSE ON THE BLOCK FOR ALMOST 10 YEARS.

IT SAT THERE LIKE AN ISLAND AND THEY DISMANTLED BOTH OF THOSE COLUMNS.

THEY MOVED THEM ONE BLOCK DOWN TO OUR POCKET PARKS AT ABRAMS AND NEAR WORST STREET.

THE COLUMNS ARE STILL THERE, BUT NOT THE SPANNING ARCH.

THANK YOU.

IT JUST REMINDED ME OF THE ENTRANCE TO THE TRINITY PORTLAND CEMENT COMPANY IN, UH, EAGLE FORD, TEXAS, SOUTHWEST DALLAS.

THANK YOU.

WELL YOU'VE DONE A BEAUTIFUL, WELL IT WAS A REAL IMPORTANT ENTRANCE TO JUNIOR HEIGHTS AND, AND TWO, THE REASON I THINK THAT THEY CHOSE TO DEMOLISH SO MUCH OF TREMONT, IT WAS ONE OF THE WIDEST BOULEVARDS BECAUSE IT HAD THE STREETCAR ROUTE RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE.

AND SO

[00:35:01]

IT GAVE THEM THE MOST SPACE TO WORK WITH WHEN THEY NEEDED TO, TO CONSTRUCT ABRAMS. THANK.

OKAY, NOW WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF VOTING, SO WE'LL JUST START AGAIN.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? WELL, GOOD.

I'M GLAD.

NO ONE'S OPPOSED.

SO IT IS INITIATED, IT WILL BECOME IN THE FUTURE ONCE WE WORK ALL THE DETAILS OUT.

THE NEXT LANDMARK.

AND THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH FOR, FOR 20 YEARS.

IT'S JUST ONE MORE STEP.

ONE MORE STEP JUST AFTER ALL THAT 20 YEARS, THIS IS NOTHING.

OKAY, .

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHTY.

I BELIEVE NEXT UP WE HAVE, UM, CONSENT ITEM FOUR, WHICH WE MOVED OVER TO THE DISCUSSION AGENDA.

UH, IF COUNCIL WAS COUNCIL , IF STAFF, I'M SURE COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE A LITTLE TOO BUSY, IF STAFF WOULD LIKE TO READ THAT INTO THE RECORD, PLEASE DO SO.

ITEM C FOUR IS FOR 24 0 1 SOUTH BOULEVARD IN THE SOUTH BOULEVARD PARK, BRO HISTORIC DISTRICT CA 2 3 4 DASH 2 48 MW.

AND I AM MARCUS WATSON PRESENTING THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PA THE EXISTING FRONT WALKWAY APPROACH WITH STONE PAVERS TO MATCH THE EXISTING PAVERS ON THE TERRACE.

STAFF.

RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PAY THE PAVE THE EXISTING FRONT WALKWAY APPROACH WITH STONE PAVERS TO MATCH THE EXISTING PAVERS ON THE TERRACE BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH MATERIALS SUBMITTED 2 23 24 WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE EXISTING WATERFALL STEPS REMAIN WITH NO ALTERATION OR REPAVING.

AND THE FINDING THAT THE WATERFALL STEPS ARE A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE DISTRICT IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS CONDITION WOULD ALLOW PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS IN CITY OF CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN AT ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO PAVE THE EXISTING FRONT WALKWAY APPROACH WITH STONE PAVERS TO MATCH THE EXISTING PAVERS ON THE TERRACE FEE APPROVED WITH, WITH CONDITIONS EXISTING WATERFALL STEPS MUST REMAIN INTACT WITH NO STONE.

STONE PAVERS SHOULD ONLY BE USED ON THE FLAT WALKWAY FROM THE HOUSE TO THE WATERFALL STEPS AND FROM THE WATERFALL STEPS TO THE FRONT SIDEWALK.

WE DON'T APPEAR TO HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS ISSUE.

UM, IS THERE SOMEONE ONLINE FOR C FOUR? HE IS ONLINE.

STEVEN DEERING.

STEVEN DEERING.

OKAY.

OH HE IS.

ALRIGHT.

SO, UM, MAY WE SEE, PLEASE SEE STEVEN DEERING IF WE COULD STOP SHARING THE SCREEN AND WE COULD SEE THE PEOPLE ONLINE AGAIN.

OKAY.

I DON'T SEE 'EM YET 'CAUSE I KNOW ALL THOSE PEOPLE.

MR. DARING, YOU NEED TO TURN ON YOUR VIDEO.

WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE YOU.

I'M TRYING.

OKAY.

HELLO THERE SIR.

UH, WELCOME TO THE LANDMARK COMMISSION MEETING.

I NEED YOU TO START OFF BY TELLING US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, EVEN THOUGH WE ALREADY KNOW.

UH, STEVEN DEERING, 2 4 0 1 SOUTH BOULEVARD.

ALRIGHT.

AND YOU, UH, PROMISE OR SWEAR TO TELL US THE TRUTH TODAY? YES.

OKAY, SIR, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, ELAINE WILL BE TIMING YOU HERE, UH, TO TELL US WHAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU'D LIKE US TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR PROPOSED PROJECT.

UH, YES.

LIKE I SAID, UH, JUST WANTED TO MIRROR WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED AND INSTALLED.

AND ALSO, UM, THE PHOTOS THAT I SUBMITTED ARE ALSO, UM, JUST SHOWING OTHER, OTHER HOUSES IN A SIMILAR DISTRICT BEING SWISS AVENUE, UM, WHERE THIS, WHERE THIS PROCESS HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN PLACE AND APPROVED THROUGH THE YEARS.

UH, ONE OF THE PHOTOS I SUBMITTED IS THE EXACT SAME MATERIAL, UH, THAT I'VE ALREADY USED ON THE PORCH FOR REFERENCE.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SIR.

COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR FOR OUR SPEAKER? CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE, I THINK FROM THE FRONT SHOWING THE WALKWAY THIS WAY? YES.

I SEE THIS AS A VERY SPECIAL WALKWAY, SORT OF A CHARACTER DEFINING, IT'S VERY LARGE.

IT'S GOT A CIRCULAR.

UM, MR. ANDERSON, REMEMBER WE ASK QUESTIONS NOW.

OKAY.

SO YOU CAN MAKE IT A QUESTION.

OKAY.

YOU CAN ASK HIM IF HE THINKS IT'S A SPECIAL .

WE, WE YOU HAVE TO SOMEHOW, THIS IS TO ENGAGE WITH OKAY.

AND FIND OUT WHAT HE WANTS.

ARE THERE OTHER WALKWAYS LIKE THIS IN THE DISTRICT WITH THE, THE CIRCULAR GARDEN IN IT? UH, THAT'S, I, I, THAT'S, I HAVE NO IDEA.

UM, I DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S 200 HOMES IN MY DISTRICT, I THINK.

IS IT ALSO THERE'S AN ARRAY? THERE'S AN ARRAY OF DESIGNS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ONE THAT MATCHES WHAT'S

[00:40:01]

ALREADY THERE ON MINE.

IS IT ALSO, IS IT ALSO THE, THE TYPICAL WALKWAY IN THE DISTRICT ONCE BY THE CONFIGURATION, THE DESIGN AND THE SIZE? WELL, I'M, I'M NOT TRYING TO INSTALL A NEW DESIGN.

I'M JUST TRYING TO FOLLOW WHAT'S ALREADY THERE.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER? GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER RES IF IT, IF IT HELPS AT ALL.

I CAN TELL YOU THE, I'M IN CONSTRUCTION.

THE AGE OF THE CONCRETE IS PRETTY OLD.

I WOULD SAY IT'S AN EXACT MATCH AS THE STEPS.

SO WHETHER IT'S CONSISTENT OR NOT, OR I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL HOW MUCH TIME YOU'LL SPEND IN SOUTH BOULEVARD, BUT I WOULD SAY THE WALKWAYS UP OR THERE'S NO CONSISTENCY THERE.

SOME OF 'EM ARE ANGLED, SOME OF 'EM ARE WIDE LIKE THIS, SOME OF THEM ARE SINGULAR, SINGLE PATHWAY.

BUT, UM, I CAN'T TELL YOU THE, THAT CONCRETE IS, SEEMS TO BE ORIGINAL OR THO THE LAST TIME THOSE STEPS WERE, THEY, THEY ARE A MATCH WITH THE TYPE OF AGGREGATE.

ALL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER REEVES, WHAT KIND OF MATERIAL IS USED FOR THE SIDEWALK ITSELF IN THE WALK TO THE STREET? YOU MEAN EXISTING OR WHAT, WHAT'S IN THE PICTURE? THAT'S CEMENT? IT'S, IT'S CONCRETE.

WE, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAD NEW SIDEWALKS PUT IN, UH, TWO FROM A, IT APPEARS TO HAVE SOME DESIGN IN IT.

UM, ARE YOU, ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE LANDING JUST AFTER THE STAIRS FOR THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK? YES.

AND TO THE STREET, UM, IT'S OBVIOUSLY A LIGHTER WHITE BECAUSE IT'S NEWER, BUT IS THERE A DESIGN, IS THERE, ARE THERE IMPRINTS IN THE SUBMIT OR IS THAT JUST, UM, LEAVES? NO, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE JUST CONCRETE, UH, EXPANSION JOINTS.

UH, STANDARD SIDEWALK.

AND THOSE ARE JUST LEAVES ON THE GROUND IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.

COMMISSIONER PREZI? UH, YES.

SO WILL THE PAVERS GO ON TOP OF THE CONCRETE OR ARE YOU GONNA BE REMOVING THE CONCRETE AND INSTALLING THE PAVERS IN THE SAME, UH, SAME AREA THAT THE CONCRETE WAS.

I WAS GOING TO JUST PUT THEM ON TOP.

UM, WAS WAS THE PLAN, UM, 'CAUSE IT DIDN'T REALLY, EXCEPT FOR THE LANDING AT THE BOTTOM, UM, THAT IS, THAT IS ALREADY, UM, SHIFTED SO MUCH WHERE IT HOLDS WATER, ET CETERA.

SO TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE.

I WAS GONNA REMOVE THAT.

SO WATER CAN ACTUALLY DRAIN OUT AND NOT HOLD AT THE STAIRS LIKE IT DOES NOW.

SO THE OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE, WHAT IS THE THICK, WHAT IS THE THICKNESS OF THE PAVERS? UM, THEY ARE THREE CENTIMETER, INCH AND A QUARTER EQUIVALENT.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS PERHAPS FROM SOMEONE AT HOME? YOU'RE CURRENTLY ABOUT A HALF INCH TALL, SO I CANNOT SEE IF ANYBODY AT HOME IS MOTIONING TO ME.

OKAY.

COMMISSIONER TAYLOR, I'LL JUST, UH, TURN IT ON MY LIGHT SO YOU CAN SEE ME.

I HAVE NO QUESTION.

OKAY, FINE.

DON'T HAVE A QUESTION.

IF ELLEN HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

COMMISSIONER SHERMAN DOES, UH, MR. DEARING, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

UM, I, I CONCUR WITH, UM, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON THAT YOUR WALKWAY IS PROBABLY RATHER UNIQUE, UM, BY DESIGN.

AND, UM, I'M WONDERING ABOUT WHAT PROMPTS THE DESIRE TO PUT THE PAVERS ON TOP? IS IT BECAUSE YOUR, UM, YOUR WALKWAY IS SUBSTANDARD AND FALLING APART OR BECAUSE YOU JUST SIMPLY LIKE THE IDEA THAT IT MIGHT, IN YOUR OPINION, BE MORE ATTRACTIVE IF YOU WERE TO PUT THE PAVERS ON BECAUSE THE PAVERS ON YOUR PORCH ARE NOT ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE, CORRECT? CORRECT.

THAT WAS APPROVED BY Y'ALL, UH, FIVE YEARS AGO, GIVE OR TAKE.

AND I THINK I WAS HERE.

THAT WAS BECAUSE THE, UM, YOUR PORCH WAS DAMAGED AND IT WAS GONNA BE DIFFICULT TO, BUT WELL, YES, IT WAS DAMAGED AND, UM, IT WAS JUST SOMETHING I WAS WANTING BECAUSE OF THE, THE AGE, I MEAN THE TYPE OF MATERIAL FITS.

UM, AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ON THE WALKWAY, YES, THE, THE CONCRETE IS NOT IN THE GREATEST SHAPE.

UH, OBVIOUSLY, I I TRULY BELIEVE IT'S ORIGINAL WITH THE STAIRS.

UM, IT'S NOT IN THE GREATEST SHAPE.

UM, AND IF I HAVE TO REPLACE IT, I WOULD.

MY SECOND PART OF THAT IS, YES, I WOULD LIKE TO MATCH WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE,

[00:45:01]

NOT ONLY FOR THE VISUAL CONTINUATION, BUT I OBVIOUS I'VE DONE A LOT OF, I'VE PUT FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND INTO THIS HOUSE SINCE I BOUGHT IT.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO CON JUST CONTINUE THAT LOOK.

UM, YOU KNOW, EVERY HOUSE HELPS, YOU KNOW, BRING UP THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I THINK IT WOULD BE, UM, JUST BENEFICIAL ALL AROUND.

I MY UNDERSTANDING, I, I GUESS WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH, JUST SO YOU KNOW, IS THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS NUMBER THREE AND NUMBER FIVE.

NUMBER THREE IS THE ONE THAT SAYS EACH PROPERTY SHALL BE RECOGNIZED AS A PHYSICAL RECORD OF ITS TIME AND CHANGES THAT CREATE A FALSE SENSE OF HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OR TO BE AVOIDED.

AND, UM, NUMBER FIVE, SEEING DISTINCTIVE FEATURES AND FINISHES AND CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES OR CRAFTSMANSHIP TO CHARACTERIZE A HISTORIC PROPERTY SHALL BE PRESERVED.

SO I THINK TAKING YOUR CUE FROM YOUR FRONT PORCH AND THEN APPLYING IT TO THE WALKWAY IS A BIT MUCH OF A STRETCH IN TERMS OF, UM, WELL, WHAT THE HOUSE SHOULD, MAY DESERVES, IF I MAY, IT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED MANY TIMES, MANY TIMES IN OTHER DISTRICTS.

THIS DISTRICT, HOWEVER, IS A DISTRICT, UM, THAT YES IS GRAND LIKE SWISS AVENUE, BUT IT'S NOT SWISS AVENUE.

AND SO IF WE'RE TAKING OUR CUES FROM VARIOUS DISTRICTS AND APPLYING THEM IN OVERLAPPING FASHIONS IN THE ABSENCE OF PRESERVATION CRITERIA TO THE CONTRARY, I'M, I'M GONNA STRUGGLE WITH THAT TOO.

UM, SO FAIR, FAIR.

BUT I MUST, I MUST IMPLORE THAT A LOT.

I ONLY SUBMITTED A FEW PHOTOS, DIDN'T THINK I HAD TO DO EVERY HOUSE, BUT SOME OF THOSE APPROVED ON SWISS AVENUE ARE NOT ORIGINAL EITHER.

THERE'S NO WAY WITH THE MATERIAL SELECTION.

WELL, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE.

WE DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT OR DENY THAT FACT.

I'M JUST STRUGGLING.

I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH.

NOT THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S UNATTRACTIVE, BUT WHEN I WAS TRAINED UP IN PRESERVATION PRINCIPLES, ONE OF THE BASICS WAS TO BEAR IN MIND THAT HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS NOT NECESSARILY A BEAUTY CONTEST.

WHAT WE THINK IS JUST PRETTIER MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE APPROPRIATE, MS. STRICTEST SENSE.

SO THAT'S WHY I HAD THOSE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UH, WE HAVE TO GIVE EVERYONE A CHANCE TO SPEAK THE FIRST TIME.

ANYBODY WHO HASN'T SPOKEN WANTS ASK QUESTION.

ALL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER REEVES, I'M LOOKING AT A PICTURE OF YOUR FRONT PORCH AND I THINK IT MAY BE AN OLD PICTURE, BUT IT APPEARS THAT THERE WAS A RED TILE ON YOUR FRONT PORCH.

IS THAT WHAT YOU COVERED WITH THE PAVERS? UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS ORANGE, BUT YES, THERE WAS, IT WAS MOSTLY CRACKED, BUT YES, IT WAS A, UM, A REDDISH ORANGE TILE, ROUGHLY.

I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS LIKE A SIX BY 12 OR A SIX BY SIX.

IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

STEPH, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, NOTES ON HOW TILE GOT REPLACED WITH PAVERS THERE? I I DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY, BUT IT WAS APPROVED BY THE LANDMARK COMMISSION.

UM, LIKE YOU SAID, I THINK ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, IT'S, IT, THE, THE HISTORY IS IN YOUR, IS IN YOUR CASE REPORT, AND I VAGUELY REMEMBER IT, AND WE DID ASK THEM EXTENSIVELY IF, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY DID PROVE THAT IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO RENEW THE TILE AND IF THEY TOOK IT UP, THEY'D BE LEFT WITH CRUMBLES.

SO , YOU KNOW, THEY NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

SO IN THAT CASE, THE, THE ONE THING, UM, THE CONDITION, UH, IT WAS APPROVED FOR THE TERRACE AND THEN THERE WAS A CONDITION PUT ON THAT HE MUST ALSO DO THE FACE OF THE FRONT STEPS, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING THAT THAT WAS A CONDITION THAT THE, THAT THE, THAT IS AN INTERESTING PAVED AS WELL.

SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING.

ALL RIGHT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DOES SOMEONE HAVE A MOTION TO MAKE ON THIS MATTER? MR. ANDERSON? I, ANYBODY AT HOME? WAIT A SECOND.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.

EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A PRECEDENT FOR ONE OR TWO HOUSES ON SWISS AVENUE, DO WE FILE THAT PRECEDENT AUTOMATICALLY? NOT AUTOMATICALLY, NO.

BUT WE TEND TO USE IT ALL THE TIME TO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THE, I MY STAFF REPORT, MY CASE REPORT WAS JUST SIMPLY BASED ON THE GRANDEUR OF THE HOUSES BEING SIMILAR AND THE, THE, THE, UM, JUST THAT SOUTH BOULEVARD IS VERY SIMILAR.

NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER PREZI, DID YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE A MOTION? NO, I DON'T, I HAVE A QUESTION, SORRY, QUESTION FOR STAFF.

SO IN 2021, IT LOOKS LIKE THE STONE, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR INSTALL NATURAL STONE IN FRONT WALKWAY AND STEPS.

AND SO THAT WAS DENIED.

AND DID

[00:50:01]

IT HA THE, THE, THE WALKWAY HAS BEEN DENIED ACTUALLY TWICE IN THE PAST.

UM, THAT, BUT TERRACE WAS, THAT WAS CHANGED, I BELIEVE SO.

WHAT, WAS THERE A CHANGE IN THIS REQUEST THAT NOW YOU'RE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OR, UM, NO, MORE, MORE ACCURATE LIKE A, A CHANGE IN STAFF .

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THAT WAS VERY HONEST OF YOU.

WATSON.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

UNLESS YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.

I AM WAITING FOR A MOTION ON THIS ONE.

COMMISSIONER SHERMAN, I'LL STICK MY NECK OUT.

UM, AND I WON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY IF THERE'S, IF I END UP BEING THE LONE DIS CENTER HERE, BUT I DO, UM, UM, MAKE THE FOLLOWING MOTION IN THE MATTER OF CA 2 3 4 2 4 8 MW 24 0 1 SOUTH BOULEVARD IN THE SOUTH BOULEVARD PARK ROAD HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT WE, UH, DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE THE REQUEST TO PAVE THE EXISTING FRONT WALKWAY APPROACH WITH STONE PAVERS.

UM, BECAUSE, UM, IT IS NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS NUMBER THREE AND FIVE AND WITH THE FINDING OF FACT THAT TURNING THE WALKWAY INTO A STONE PAV MATERIAL CREATES A DISCONNECT WITH THE WATERFALL FEATURES THAT OUR CHARACTER DEFINED.

SECOND.

WHO WAS THAT? WHO SECOND WAS IT? COMMISSIONER REEVES.

ALL RIGHT, SO WE HAVE OUR MOTION AND OUR SECOND NOW COMMISSIONER'S DISCUSSION.

COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION.

I FEEL IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

UH, TAKING WHAT PROBABLY IS ORIGINAL CONCRETE AND PUTTING ON PAVERS IS GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

IT APPEARS IT'S BEEN LOOKED AT BY LANDMARK MISSION AT LEAST TWO TIMES AND DENIED.

I THINK WE WERE CREATING A FALSE SENSE OF HISTORY.

UM, I WAS NOT SUPPORTIVE OF THE OTHER APPLICATION THAT HAPPENED ON SWISS AVENUE.

THEY SNUCK IN.

I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO BE REMOVING ORIGINAL MATERIAL AND PUTTING IN A FALSE SENSE OF HISTORY.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALRIGHT THEN IT'S TIME FOR US TO CALL FOR A VOTE ON THIS MOTION.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY A AYE AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION? COMMISSIONER RENO? WAS THAT IN OPPOSITION? THAT WAS AN APPROVAL.

OH, OKAY.

YOU WERE JUST LATE.

ALRIGHT, .

SORRY.

YES.

ALRIGHT.

SO, UM, TO OUR APPLICANT, UNLESS HE'S LEFT US, HOPEFULLY HE'S STILL LISTENING.

UH, YOU HAVE RECEIVED A DENIAL STAFF WE'LL, UM, INFORM YOU ABOUT THE OPTIONS FOR APPEALING BECAUSE IT IS DENIAL OR YOU ARE INVITED TO WORK WITH STAFF TO SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE YOU COULD DO THAT, THAT THEY, THEY COULD HELP YOU WITH THAT THEY FEEL MIGHT BE MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE ORDINANCE FOR THE DISTRICT.

ALL RIGHT, OUR NEXT CASE IS, UH, CONSENT AGENDA ITEM NUMBER NINE.

OKAY, GOOD AFTERNOON.

THIS IS DR.

RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING CONSENT ITEM NUMBER NINE.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 3 6 6 SOUTH FLEMING AVENUE AND THE 10TH STREET NEIGHBORHOOD HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THE CASE NUMBER IS CA 2 34 DASH 2 53 RD.

THE REQUEST ARE AS FOLLOWS, ONE FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING EXTERIOR SIDING WITH MILLWORK PATTERN NUMBER 1 1 7, ALL WOOD SIDING ON ALL ELEVATIONS OF THE MAIN BUILDING.

REQUEST NUMBER TWO, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A FOUR FOOT HIGH WOOD PINKETT FENCE IN LESS THAN 50% OF THE FRONT YARD.

REQUEST NUMBER THREE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A SIX FOOT HIGH WOOD BOARD ON BOARD FENCE IN REAR AND SIDE YARDS.

REQUEST NUMBER FOUR, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ENCLOSE AND EXTEND FRONT PORCH REQUEST NUMBER FIVE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL LANDSCAPING TREES AND SHRUBS.

STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS TO REQUEST NUMBER ONE, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING EXTERIOR SIDING WITH MILLWORK PATTERN NUMBER 1 1 7.

ALL WOOD SIDING ON ALL ELEVATIONS OF MAIN BUILDING BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 3 7 20 24.

[00:55:02]

THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION, SECTION F UNDER FACADES THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBDIVISION G SIX C ROMANT ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION.

NUMBER TWO, STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A FOUR FOOT HIGH WOULD PICKET FENCE IN LESS THAN 50% OF FRONT YARD BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 3 7 20 24 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION THAT FENCING V FIVE TO SIX FEET HIGH CHAIN LINK FENCING FOR CHILD SAFETY IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO MEET STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBDIVISION G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES NUMBER THREE, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A SIX FOOT HIGH WOOD BOARD ON BOARD FENCE IN REAR AND SIDE YARDS BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH SPECIFICATIONS DATED 3 7 20 24 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION THAT FENCE POSTS OR SUPPORTS BE METAL WITH CONCRETE FOOTING.

IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITION WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED TO WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA.

SECTIONS I AND M UNDER SITE AND SITE ELEMENTS AND THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBDIVISION G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES NUMBER FOUR THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ENCLOSE AND EXTEND FRONT PORCH BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 3 7 20 24.

THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION.

SECTION B UNDER NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS, THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION.

NUMBER FIVE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL LANDSCAPING TREES AND SHRUBS BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 3 7 20 24.

THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION, SECTION F UNDER SITE AND SITE ELEMENTS, THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH FOUR DOC 5 0 1 SUBDIVISION, G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION NUMBER ONE THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE EXISTING EXTERIOR SIDING WITH MILLWORK PATTERN NUMBER ONE 17.

ALL WOOD SIDING ON ELEVATIONS OF MAIN BUILDING BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.

NUMBER TWO, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A FOUR FOOT HIGH WOOD PICKET FENCE IN LESS THAN 50% OF FRONT YARD BE APPROVED WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION.

FRONT YARD FENCING SHOULD BE FIVE TO SIX FEET HIGH CHAIN LENGTH FENCING FOR CHILD SAFETY.

THREE.

THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A SIX FOOT HIGH WOOD BOARD ON BOARD FENCE AND REAR AND SIDE YARDS BE APPROVED WITH A FOLLOWING CONDITION.

FENCE POSTS SHOULD BE METAL WITH CONCRETE FOOTING TO STRENGTHEN FENCE NUMBER FOUR, THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO ENCLOSE AND EXTEND BUNCH FOR BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.

FIVE.

THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL LANDSCAPING TREES AND SHRUBS BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.

THANK YOU.

NOW WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS SIGNED UP FOR THIS.

IVAN GONZALEZ AND JESSICA GONZALEZ.

I DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST.

THANK YOU FOR, UH, THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS FOR HAVING US TODAY.

OKAY.

YOU HAVE TO START OFF BY TELLING ME YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS.

MY NAME IS JESSICA GONZALEZ.

OUR PROPERTY IS 3 6 6 FLEMING.

OKAY.

AND YOU PROMISE TO SWEAR TO TELL US THE TRUTH? I DO.

ALRIGHTYY YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.

HI.

THANK YOU.

UM, PLEASE EXCUSE ME, ALL THIS IS UNI ME, WE'VE HAD TO NAVIGATE, UM, ZONING AND NOW TACKLE THE LANDMARKS.

SO BEFORE THIS, I, YOU KNOW, WHAT ONE 17 SIDING WAS.

AND NOW THANKS TO DR. DUNN AND HER GUIDANCE WE DO.

AND SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING,

[01:00:01]

COLLABORATING TOGETHER AND, AND, UM, I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

OUR PROPERTY USED TO BE A CHURCH AND NOW WE'RE REZONING IT, UM, TO BE A CHILDCARE.

AND THIS IS MY HUSBAND IVAN.

OKAY.

IVAN, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK, YOU STILL HAVE TO TELL US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH.

, MY NAME IS IVAN GONZALEZ AND THE PROPERTY IS AT 3 6 6 FLEMING.

AND YOU'RE TRUTHFUL.

, I DIDN'T ASK YOU .

I GUESS I MUST BE AFTER 26 YEARS.

OKAY, GOOD.

I, I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH TELLING US THE TRUTH.

OKAY, SO NOW LET US ASK IF COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, AS SOON AS THEY FINISH GIGGLING THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO ASK.

WE HAVE MUSIC TOO.

QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS FOR STAFF OR OUR SPEAKERS.

COMMISSIONER .

MR. ANDERSON, ARE YOU SUPPORTIVE OF THE UH, CHAIN LINK FENCE AND HOW TALL DOES THAT FENCE NEED TO BE? THE FENCE IN THE, AROUND THE PLAYGROUND.

HOW TALL SHOULD THE FENCE BE AND ARE YOU SUPPORTIVE OF THE CHAIN LINK INSTEAD OF THE WOOD FENCE? WELL, UM, WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THE HEIGHT.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT CHILD SAFETY COMES FIRST.

RIGHT.

UM, AS OPPOSED TO THE MATERIALS, WE'RE OPEN TO HEAR SOME FEEDBACK.

UM, THE CHAIN FENCE WAS PROPOSED.

UM, IF I WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, IF WE COULD PUT MAYBE A WOODEN FENCE SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT'S GOING THAT WE'RE ALREADY PUTTING ON THE SIDE OF CLAINE AND THROUGH THE BACKYARD AND THEN ON THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE, WE WOULD BE OPEN FOR THAT AS WELL.

WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE RULES OR THE REGULATIONS ARE IN REGARDS TO THAT MATTER.

BUT WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF, OF THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE.

AND I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.

WHAT IS THE, IS THERE LEGAL REQUIRED FENCE HEIGHT FOR DAYCARES? YOU SAID IT'S FIVE OR SIX, IS IT FIVE OR SIX OR WE DON'T KNOW, OR WELL, HERE'S HOW IT CAME UP IN THE DISCUSSION.

ONE OF THE TASK FORCE MEMBERS OWNS A DAYCARE CENTER AH, I SEE.

IN THAT SAME DISTRICT.

SO THEY KNOW.

SO SHE WAS THE ONE WHO EXPLAINED, BECAUSE ORIGINALLY WE STARTED WITH THE FOUR FOOT HIGH PICKET FENCE.

MM-HMM.

.

AND SO THE REST OF US DID NOT KNOW, BUT SHE KNEW THAT IT NEEDS TO BE FIVE TO SIX FOOT TALL AND SHE WAS ALSO THE ONE WHO SUGGESTED CHAIN LINK.

OKAY.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE A FENCE TODAY, IS IT GOING TO BE FIVE OR SIX? I MEAN, DO WE NEED TO HAVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER ON THAT OR, I MEAN IT'S, IT IS ONE OR THE OTHER.

SHOULD WE JUST SAY SIX FOOT OR, OR WHAT DO, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST? WELL, THE REST OF THE FENCING, THE BOARD WOOD BOARD ON BOARD IS GOING TO BE SIX FOOT HIGH.

SO I MEAN, WHERE IT NEEDS, IT MIGHT BE NICE IF THEY BOTH ARE THE SAME HEIGHT.

I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE A FENCE TODAY, WE NEED TO KNOW HOW HIGH IT'S GONNA BE.

SO DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT WE SHOULD BE FIVE OR SIX? WE LEAVE IT AT THAT OR DO YOU HAVE TO BE MORE DEFINITIVE? I'M NOT SURE.

NO MORE THAN SIX.

I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE WE HAVE TO NO MORE THAN SIX FEET.

YEAH, NO MORE THAN SIX FEET.

OKAY.

YEAH.

AND MY LAST QUESTION IS, THE ORDINANCE DOESN'T ALLOW A FENCE THAT HEIGHT.

WHAT IS THE FENCE REQUIREMENT FOR FOR 10TH STREET? FOR THE FRONT YARD? THREE FEET, SIX INCHES HIGH, WHICH IS DEFINITELY TWO LOW FOR SIX.

I UNDERSTAND.

SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR CITY ATTORNEY OR UM, OR SOMEONE, IF WE WERE TO APPROVE A FENCE NOT TO SEE SIX FEET IN HEIGHT, WOULD IT BE BEST FOR US TO USE THE WIGGLE ROOM CLAUSE? THAT THE FENCE THAT WE ARE APPROVING DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD? 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO APPROVE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE ORDINANCE AND I'M, I'M FINE WITH THE, THE TALLER FENCE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

I JUST NEED TO KNOW HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE APPROVE IT SO THAT IT IS FINE? YOU COULD USE THE WIGGLE ROOM CLAUSE IN WHICH IT SAYS IF IT DOES NOT STRICTLY COMPLY WITH THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE SPIRIT INTENT OF THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA AND APPROVE IT THAT WAY.

SO WOULD THAT BE, AND WE NEED TO APPROVE IT DIFFERENT THAN THE ORDERS.

WE HAVE TO SAY SOME OF THAT.

RIGHT.

OKAY.

AND MY OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE, UM, PROBABLY TO STAFF, IS THERE ANY, DOES THIS, IS THERE A SANDBORN MAP HERE THAT'S SHOWING THE YEAH, BECAUSE THE QUESTION CAME UP THIS MORNING ABOUT