* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. WE'RE [00:00:01] RECORDING BECAUSE IT'S MR. HARD AND MR. [Special Sign District Advisory Committee on May 14, 2024.] WEB WESTER. CAN YOU, CAN YOU HEAR? YEAH. YEAH, WE'RE THERE. I CAN. OKAY. IT'S NOW 10 O'CLOCK. THE IS IS D AC MEETING THAT SURVIVED ALL THE ORDER. AND SCOTT, YOU WANNA LEAD US OFF? ALRIGHT. THIS MORNING WE'VE GOT ONE CASE. UH, THIS WOULD BE FOR SPSD 2 3 4 0 0 2. THIS IS FOR A NEW SUBDISTRICT IN THE WEST END. UH, MR. OSCAR A AGUILERA, THE SENIOR PLANNER WILL BE PRESENTING TODAY. AND, UH, MIKE AND I WILL BE HERE TO ANSWER ANY SPECIFIC SIGN RELATED QUESTIONS. AND WE HAVE BILL KINGSON HERE AS WELL TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT MAY ARISE. AND GIMME JUST A MOMENT AND I WILL SHARE THE PRESENTATION FOR YOU. WELCOME BACK, SCOTT. THANK YOU. IT'S GOOD TO BE BACK. SEE ALL YOUR SMILING FACES. , YOU GOT YOUR PAIN PILLS. . YEAH. ? YES. UH, OKAY. THERE WE GO. GOOD. GOOD MORNING. UH, I'M, UH, OSCAR THERE. IT'S NICE, UH, TO BE BACK AND YEAH, WE MISS THAT. THANK YOU. UH, SO TODAY WE, WE HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR, UM, FOR US, UH, THEY WANT TO AMEND THE WESTERN, UH, UH, HISTORIC, UH, SIGN DISTRICT. AND, UH, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A SUPER, UH, GRAPHIC, UH, DO YOU WANT TO GO TO THE NEXT LOCATION? I, UH, WANNA MAKE A CORRECTION ON, ON THE REPORT FOR THE SIDE, I WAS INCLUDING THE, THE PARKING PLA AREA. SO THE PROPERTY IS ONLY, THE SIDE IS ACTUALLY ONLY, UH, 0.112. UH, SO IT'S NOT, UH, 0.334 AS I HAD A, A, A PLACE THERE. BUT THIS IS THE BACKGROUND. ON JUNE, UH, 22 20 16, THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED THE WEST, UH, END HISTORIC DISTRICT. UH, DURING, UH, THIS TIME THERE HAS BEEN, UH, TWO NEW, UH, UM, UH, SUPERGRAPHICS IN SUB DISTRICT, THE FIRST, UH, BUILDING SUB DISTRICT AND THE ANTIOCH, UH, CHURCH, UH, SUB DISTRICT. UH, YOU WILL SEE THESE SIGNS ON THE VIDEO PRESENTATION, UH, SO THAT THE DALLAS CODE, UH, SECTION 51, 87 0.102, 16.1 STATES THAT, UH, HIGHWAY PURIFICATION AT, UH, SIGN IS AN ON-PREMISE SIGN THAT IT IS WITHIN, UH, 660 FEET OF AN EXPRESSWAY OR A NEW EXPRESSWAY RIGHT AWAY. AND, UH, WHOSE, UH, MESSAGE IS, UH, VISIBLE FROM THE MAIN TRAVEL, UH, LANE. UH, THIS, THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE COMMERCIAL STREET, ACCORDING TO MAP, UH, 21, IS CLASSIFIED AS A FEDERAL, UH, STREET. SO, UH, ANOTHER POINT THAT I WANNA MAKE IS THAT, UH, MR. UH, UH, KINGSTON HAS ALREADY, UH, UH, TAKEN HIS APPLICATION TO THE HISTORIC, UH, UH, DESIGNATION COMMITTEE AND THE LANDMARK COMMISSION. THEY HAVE REVIEWED THE PROPOSED FOR GRAPHIC SIGN. THE COMMENTS WERE, UH, SUPPORTED. THE ONLY REQUEST WAS, UH, IF, UH, TILES ARE INVOLVED, UH, SUPPORT THE SIGNAGE, THEY MUST BE ATTACHED VIA THE MORTAR JOINTS TO PROTECT THE MASONRY OF, OF THE BUILDING. UH, ALSO THERE WERE SOME TREES THAT WERE REMOVED FROM, FROM THE SITE, FROM THE PARKING LOT, BUT THEY'RE NOT, UH, PROTECTED. UH, SIGN. I SPOKE WITH TINA, OUR CITY IES, AND SAY THAT, THAT IT IS, THAT THAT'S FINE. THAT THERE'S NO ISSUE WITH, WITH THE, WITH THE TREES. UH, THE, AGAIN, THE PURPOSE OF THE, THE REQUEST SITE IS DEVELOP A BUILDING CONSTRUCTED IN 1914, COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE KATY, UH, BUILDING. CURRENTLY, THERE ARE NO SIGNS LOCATED ON THE BUILDINGS. UH, THE SAC, THE ONLY, THE LAB TO THE EAST OF KATY BUILDING IS, UH, DEVELOPED WITH A SURFACE, UH, PARKING LOT. UM, THE OWNER APPLICANT SEEK TO CREATE A NEW SUB-DISTRICT. SO I WON'T LINK TO ALLOW THE SUPER GRAPHIC 'CAUSE IT WAS NOT STATED. I WILL NOT POUR YOU READING AREAS LIKE YOU, YOU WANT TO GO TO THE NEXT ONE. SO, AS I STATED, AGAIN, THE REASON THAT WE'RE ONLY DOING THE 1,200 IS FOR THE RESTRICTIONS OF, UH, OF THE FEDERAL, UH, HIGHWAY FOR THE BEAUTIFICATION ACT, UH, MAP, UH, 21. UH, AND THEN THESE ARE THE PROPOSED, UH, HEIGHTS. SO IT WILL BE, IT WILL NOT BE LOWER THAN, THAN 10 UH, FEET. UH, I BELIEVE, UH, MR. KINGSTON'S PRESENTATION HAS A, UH, ADMINISTRATION ILLUSTRATION AS TO HOW THE SIGN, UH, [00:05:01] MAY LOOK. YOU, YOU WANT TO GO TO THE NEXT ONE? AND THIS IS THE LOCATION THAT'S THE WEST END, ACCORDING TO MY EYESIGHT. UH, YOU WANT TO GO TO, TO THE NEXT ONE? AS I STATED, WEST END, THIS IS THE WESTERN AREA. THAT'S THE YELLOW PORTION. UH, NEXT, UH, SLIDE. THIS IS THE AERIAL MAP. THE HIGHLIGHTED AREA ON, UH, BLUE IS THE BUILDING IN REQUESTING. IT ALSO INCLUDES, THIS IS JUST THE 3D THAT, THAT, UH, GOES OVER. UH, AND THEN THE SIGN IS GOING TO BE, UM, FRONTING, UH, THE PARKING LOT. UH, NEXT SLIDE. THESE ARE THE LOCATION FROM THE OTHER, UH, UH, SUPERGRAPHICS, UH, ALLOWED, WHICH IS, UH, ONE AND TWO. AND THE PROPOSED, UH, NEW SUPER GRAPHIC IS ON, UH, THE NUMBER THREE NEXT, UH, SLIDE. AND THEN I PUT THIS, UH, COMPRESSION GRAPH COMPARED TO, UH, TO THE, TO THE SIGN, THE FIRST BUILDING. AND THEN WE ALSO INCLUDED THE MARKET, UH, CENTER SUBDIVISION, UH, SINCE, UH, THAT WAS, UH, STARTED FROM, FROM THE CASES BEFORE. SO FOR, FOR MARKET, UH, DISTRICT, THERE'S NO LIMIT IT IN TWO FACETS. FOR ALL THE SUPERGRAPHICS SCIENCE WITHIN THE WEST END, THERE'S ONLY ONE FACET. THE, THE PROPOSED SIDE IS, UH, ONE, UH, 2,500, UH, TO 6,500. UH, THIS ONE IS LOWER 'CAUSE OF THE, UH, BEAUTIFICATION HIGHWAY ACT FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. AND THEN, UH, THE DISPLAY INTEGRATION FOR THE UNTIL IS SIX MONTHS. THE FIRST BUILDING, THERE'S NO LIMIT FOR THAT ONE. AND, UH, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING THAT SIX MONTHS, UM, AS WELL FOR, FOR THE MKT, UH, SUB-DISTRICT. AND THEN, UH, WE PROPOSE, NO, NO SUNSET. AND THEN, UH, FOR THE OTHER, IT MAY NOT HAVE AN EXISTING PAINTED SIGN. AND THEN THE HEIGHT MAY NOT BE LOWER THAN, UH, 10 FEET, 10 FEET ABOVE, UH, GRADE LEVEL. THAT IS, UH, ALSO STATED ON, ON THE CONDITIONS THAT THE, THAT THAT WILL BE POSTED AT THE END. YOU, YOU WANT TO GO TO THE NEXT ONE? SO THIS IS THE SITE, THE SITE PLAN, AKA SURVEY, WHICH, UH, CHOSE THE BUILDING, THE STRUCTURE. I PUT THE ARROW BECAUSE THE SIGN IS GOING TO FACE THIS WAY. NEXT, UH, SLIDE. SO THESE ARE THE, THESE ARE THE CONDITIONS THAT I WAS, UH, TALKING ABOUT IS, UH, UH, VERY MUCH, VERY SIMILAR TO, UH, TO WHAT IS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FOR THE AND THE PURSE, UH, BUILDING. UH, IF YOU WANT, I CAN READ EVERYTHING. OR, OR OKAY. GO, GO AHEAD. AND AGAIN, THIS IS THE SAW THE BEAUTIFICATION ACT. UH, NEXT, UH, SLIDE. THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE CURRENT, UH, PICTURES, UH, WE'RE TAKING ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, MAYBE THREE WEEKS AGO. AND THEN THIS IS THE VIEW FROM, UH, COMMERCE. THE TRAFFIC FLOWS THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF, OR, UM, WHERE WE, THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC. THE, THE STREET IS WEST TO EAST COMMERCE. COMMERCE. SO THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC GOES EAST. SO FOR, FOR THE PURPOSE OF VERIFICATION SIGN THAT THEY WILL NOT, THE, THE DRIVERS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SEE IT. 'CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE HEADING, THEY'RE GETTING AWAY FROM THE, FROM THE BUILDING ONLY, UH, PER SE, PER DISTANCE IN, THEY'RE WALKING HERE, BUT THIS IS MAIN STREET. SO MAIN STREET GOES WESTBOUND, . SO THEY'LL BE ABLE THEN TO SEE THE, THE SIGN NEXT, UM, SLIDE. SO THIS IS BECAUSE, UH, LAMAR STREET IS ALSO PART OF THE VERIFICATION ACT, THE HIGHWAY VERIFICATION ACT. I WENT IN AND TOOK THIS PICTURE TO DRIVE TO SEE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'LL BE VISIBLE FOR THE VEHICLES DRIVING, LET'S SAY FIVE, UH, FIVE MILES. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO SEE IT. AND, AND I HAVE, UH, WE HAVE THE VIDEO NEXT, UH, SLIDE IF YOU WANT. VEHICLE. HERE'S THE VIDEO. THE VIDEO WILL WILL BE A LITTLE ALONG. WE WENT TO THE FIRST SIGN AND ALSO THE, THE ANTIOCH OSCAR, WELL, HE'S PULLING THAT UP. YOU MENTIONED THAT SOME TREES HAD BEEN TAKEN DOWN. AND THAT ILLUSTRATION YOU HAD A MINUTE AGO, WERE [00:10:01] THEY THE PERIMETER TREES THAT WERE THERE ON THE EDGE OF THE PARKING LOT? OR WHERE DID, UH, IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO, WELL, HE'S TRYING TO PULL UP, WE CAN GO. SO ON, ON THE, ON THE, ON THE SIDE, ON, ON, ON THE ACTUAL BUILDING, ON THE STRUCTURE, INSIDE, INSIDE THE, THE PARKING LOT, THEY HAD SOME, UH, ITALIAN CYPRESS. MM-HMM. THAT, THAT WERE ALONG, THAT WERE ALONG THE BUILDING. YOU SAID SEATBELTS IN THE ADMINISTRATION? YES. YEAH. THEY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NO LONGER THERE. IT WAS JUST, I, I NOTICED BECAUSE OF AN OLD, UH, PHOTO. WELL, AND THEY'RE PRONG DISEASES. ANYWAY, THERE'S A, AN INFECTION THAT TAKES 'EM OUT PRETTY QUICKLY. ANYHOW, SO THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE BUILDING. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO MANIPULATE, AS I STATED, THAT'S, UH, THAT'S A FACADE, BUT TRAFFIC IS GONE AND THAT'S YEAH. RIGHT. TRAVEL. AND, UH, THE ONLY WAY THAT IT WILL BE AFFECTED IS THE CITY DECIDES TO CHANGE CORRECTION THAT DIRECTION. SO FOR LIKE, AS THEY SAYING FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAP 21, UM, WITH THE, THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC, THIS, THIS WILL NOT COUNT AS A, UH, HIGHWAY BEAUTIFICATION. OKAY. BECAUSE IT WON'T BE VISIBLE FROM THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC. AND MAIN STREET IS NOT A MAP 21 STREET, IT WAS NOT INCLUDED JUST COMMERCE AND EL. OKAY. OKAY. SO IT WON'T BE VISIBLE FROM ANY OF THE MAP 21 STREETS. BUT THAT'S PART OF WHY MR. AGUILERA PUT THE LOWER LIMIT AT THE 1200 SQUARE FEET. IF THE CITY WERE TO TWO WAY COMMERCE, WE WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BECOME AN HVA SITE AND WE WOULD BE LIMITED TO THE 1200 FEET. CORRECT. SO IT'S JUST GOOD FUTURE PLANNING. EXACTLY. IT JUST MEANS WE WON'T HAVE TO COME BACK AND SEE YOU. RIGHT. , SORRY. DIFFICULTIES. THIS IS YOUR NEW 360 CAMERA THAT YOU TOOK OUT TO THE LINWOOD. WHEN WE LOOK IN AT THAT ONE, IT'S COOL. YES. IT IT IS. UH, AND, AND IT'S KIND OF WEIRD BECAUSE IT ONLY HAS TWO LENSES. PEOPLE THINK THAT IT WILL HAVE LIKE, UH, SIX OR FOUR. I'M SORRY. WELL, IT COULD BE ROTATIONAL. YEAH. SO THEY STILL, UH, CAN YOU BARELY SEE THE SAME? YEAH, JUST LOVE ALL THE CONSTRUCTION GOING ON RIGHT NOW. ? NO, NOT IN THE MORNING AND AFTERNOON. NINE. WELL, YOU MEAN SIMILAR COMMUTE? YOU'RE THE COURSE THAN MINE. AND THEN COMING DOWN, SHOW YOU THE OTHER WAY. MM-HMM? . YEAH. WE GET MAIN SO THAT YOU CAN SEE BUILDING. THERE'S BEHIND THAT. YEAH, THAT'S THAT COMMERCE. THERE WE GO. IT'S BETTER. NOT REALLY. OKAY. ARE YOU SEEING THAT TODD? NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT EITHER. ARE YOU GUYS NOT ABLE TO SEE IT? NO, SIR. OH. OH, YOU'RE STILL SHARING THE POWERPOINT, I THOUGHT. I'M SORRY. YEAH. LET ME, I APOLOGIZE. YEAH, I JUST NEED TO SHARE THIS APP. YEAH. LET ME PAUSE THIS AND START IT OVER. SEE, I HAVE AN ADVANTAGE. I, I LOOKED AROUND THAT ON THE, ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON AFTER CHURCH JUST TO SEE WHERE IT WAS LOCATED. OKAY. I APOLOGIZE GUYS. I CAN SEE IT ON THE SCREEN NOW. YEAH, THERE YOU GO. THERE WE GO. I CAN SEE THAT. YEAH. OKAY. I I'LL START IT OVER. OKAY. THIS IS DAVID. [00:15:01] THE VIDEO SHOWS THAT ONE WAY, UM, BOUND, UH, IS BOUND FOR, UH, COMMERCE STREET. MM-HMM. . IF YOU LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, YOU'LL SEE THE, AND THEN THAT'S, THAT'S THE PROPOSAL. YEAH. PROPOSED SIGN FOR THE, FOR THE SUPER GRAPHIC WITH, UH, THOSE, UH, CONDITIONS STATED BECAUSE OF THE, UH, MAP, UH, 21. IT'S WINDY . YES. . IT WAS A NICE DAY TOO. IT SUN WAS ROCKING. YEAH. MUCH WIND THAN THE RAIN ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON. NOW THAT, THAT'S THE MINE THAT WE'RE TURNING UP WESTBOUND ON, ON ME. AND HERE YOU'LL HAVE A PRETTY GOOD VIEW OF IT. YEAH. RIGHT THERE. THAT'S THE, THE VIEW. IS THERE A LOT MORE TO THE VIDEO? YES. IT'S JUST, OH, OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING, WE'RE GOING TO THE DRIVE, UH, SO THAT, THAT YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, FIRST BUILDING AND THEN AUNTIE, UH, CHURCH. OKAY. BUILDING. AND THEN, UH, THE LAST, UH, PORTION IS, UH, ON LAMAR STREET SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THE, THE VIEW BECAUSE UH, LAMAR STREET IS ALSO CONSIDERED PART OF THE MAC 20 ONES. AND THAT'S THE FIRST, UH, BUILDING. MM-HMM. . YEAH. RIGHT. AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A, A SUPER GRAPHIC SIGN IN THE FIRST BUILDING FOR A WHILE. YEAH. VERSUS FOR SALE. I DON'T THINK SHE'S ALL THAT FOCUSED ON YEAH. PUTTING UP SCIENCE AT THIS POINT. INTERESTING. YOU HAVE 12 MILLION. IT'S YOURS. IT'S JUST POCKET CHANGE. . OH, I'M RUNNING AT TWO. SPEED. SO OSCAR REALLY ISN'T DRIVING THAT BAD . I KNOW. I THOUGHT HERE IS THE NO, THAT'S GOOD. . AND THEN IF YOU CENTER A LITTLE BIT YEAH. THIS, THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE WE'RE ON LAMAR NOW. YEAH. AND WE'RE LIKE APPROACHING UH, SO UP. YEAH. WELL IT WAS RIGHT THERE FROM SIDE. YEAH. MM-HMM. . AND THEN, SO YOU, YOU COULD SEE THE, YEAH, YOU CAN'T SEE IT ALL FROM THE INTERSECTION OF LAMAR AND MAIN, BUT YOU COULD BARELY SEE IT. WRECK COMING UP RIGHT HERE. RIGHT HERE. AND THEN THERE. I MEAN THE BARE LEG IS MOST OBSTRUCTIVE. YEAH. SPLIT SECOND OBSTRUCTED. AND I THINK LIKE IT ENOUGH FOR YOU TO SEE IN YOUR LAB AND YOU'LL HAVE TO STOP. AND THEN THIS CONCLUDES THE MEETING. OKAY. THERE'S MORGAN WALL . OH, YOU'RE MAKING THIS WATCH ADVERTISEMENTS. SHE'S GOT YOUTUBE. I THINK YOUTUBE IS MAKING . YEAH. AND IT'S REAL SHORT. AND OSCAR'S IS BETTER THAN MINE. ANYWAY. NEXT, LET ME GET THIS ONE SHARED AGAIN REAL QUICK. YEAH. WE GOTTA SWITCH OVER SO YOU CAN SEE THE PRESENTATION. OKAY. HEY, ACTUALLY CAN YOU SEE THE PRESENTATION NOW, UHHUH? YEP, [00:20:01] I CAN. OKAY, GREAT. SO THE STAFF IS, UH, RECOMMENDING, UH, APPROVAL, UM, AGAIN, BASED ON THE SITE VISIT, UH, UH, THE SIGN WILL NOT ENCROACH INTO THE HIGHWAY. UH, VERIFICATION, UH, ACCESS IS NOT, UH, VISIBLE. UM, DO YOU HAVE A, ANY QUESTIONS? I UNDER TECHNICAL QUESTIONS. OKAY GUYS, WHEN YOU'RE OPENING MOUNTING THROUGH NATE SMITH, IN THE PAST WHEN WE'VE HAD IT GOING ON ONE OF THESE HISTORICAL BUILDINGS, THERE ARE SAFETY PLATES AND OTHER THINGS YOU HAVE TO ATTACH TO WHAT THE BACKSIDE 'CAUSE YOU TO GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO BE SURE THAT YOU'VE GOT STABILITY. 'CAUSE IF WE HAVE THESE WONDERFUL DAY WINDS COMING THROUGH, THEY CAN CREATE HABIT WITH THAT WEAKENED OLDER ANDOR. MM-HMM. SO I DIDN'T, WELL, I DON'T REMEMBER ALL THE SPECIFICATIONS IN THAT. THEY'LL, THEY'LL HAVE TO SIGN DETERMINE THAT IS, IS REQUIRED. THEY'LL ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE A SIGN SEAL. OKAY. SO WE TAKING CARE OF THAT OLDER BUILDING, MAKING SURE NOT ANY DAMAGE BUILDING FORCED THINKING OF THE PURSE BUILDING. I THINK EVERY THREE FOOT, THEY HAVE TWO HUB SUPPORT BEHIND THE MORTAR, BUT NOT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS NOT WHERE EVERY THREE BOAT GOES THROUGH, BUT LIKE EVERY, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S LIKE EVERY THREE FOOT, THEY HAD LIKE A, A PLATE THAT WOULD CATCH A COUPLE OF THEM. SO I'M NOT HERE PER A VAN MARK WOULD HAVE TO DO MORTAR JOINT. YEAH. WELL BECAUSE THE BRICK'S NOT EASILY REPAIRED THE MORTAR JOINT, IT'S EASIER TO REPAIR IF YOU TAKE THE SIGN DOWN AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE. SO WE'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH BOTH THE PURSE BUILDING OWNERSHIP AND THE ANTIOCH OWNERSHIP. UM, AND THEY, I THINK USE THE SAME INSTALLER AND THE KEY WAS THE GOOD INSTALLER. SO WE ARE GOING, WE'RE GOING TO USE THE GOOD INSTALLER. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MURPHY? TODD, DID YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT MOUNTING A SIGN OR ANYTHING? 'CAUSE I WANT MR. KINGSTON HAVE TIME TO GO AHEAD AND SHOW US HIS PRESENTATION. BUT I JUST WANTED, THAT WAS MY FIRST CONCERN WAS PROTECTING THE MORTAR AND THE, THE AGE OF THAT BUILDING. THAT MAKES IT MORE GRADUAL STRUCTURE. AND I'M SURE LANDMARK, THE HISTORIC GROUP, HAVE ALREADY DONE THEIR DUE DILIGENCE THAT WELL, I, UH, I DO HAVE A COMMENT QUESTION. SO WHEN I, WHEN I REVIEWED THIS, WHEN SCOTT SENT IT OUT ORIGINALLY, ARE, ARE WE APPROVING AN SPSD OR ARE WE APPROVING, UH, THE BANNER AS PART OF THAT? NO, WE, WE WE'RE JUST DOING THE, THE AMENDMENT TO, UM, TO THE WEST, UH, AND UH, SIGN, UH, DISTRICT CREATING A SUBDISTRICT. IT WOULD BE A SUBDISTRICT. YEAH. IN THE WESTERN SIGN DISTRICT MURPHY. I THINK THERE WAS A LIMIT OF, WASN'T IT TWO SIGNS DOWN IN THE, THE WEST END. FOUR. SO THIS IS CREATING A NEW SUBDISTRICT SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT IN AN ADDITIONAL SIGN, IF I UNDERSTOOD THAT CORRECTLY. CORRECT. CORRECT. IN THE SUPER GRAPHIC. CORRECT. AND TO DO THE SUPER GRAPHIC, 'CAUSE WE HAVE A DEARTH OF BUILDINGS THAT HAVE A SUFFICIENT FACADE TO DO SUPER GRAPHICS. YES, MA'AM. I CAN'T REMEMBER. WE HAD A CAP LIMIT OF, I THINK IT WAS 16 OR MAYBE IN TOWN IS 22. 22. THAT'S, I REMEMBER THAT WEST, BUT DOESN'T INCLUDE WESTFIELD. RIGHT. OKAY. WELL YOU HAD, YOU HAD ME AT RECOMMENDATION APPROVAL, BUT, UM, , UM, UM, SO DOES THIS, DOES THIS FALL INTO THE QUOTA OF SUPER GRAND? IT, IT WOULD, IT WILL. BECAUSE, BECAUSE NOW WE'LL HAVE A, IT WILL ADD AN, AN ADDITIONAL, SO BEFORE FOR THE WEST END THERE, ORIGINALLY THERE WAS ONE, ONLY ONE ALLOWED THEN THE, THE ANTIOCH AND THE FIRST BUILDING CAME IN AND THEN IT ALLOWED TWO. SO NOW WITH THIS, UH, UH, PROPOSAL, IF, UH, IF YOU, UH, IF YOU REQUIRE FOR APPROVAL AND CITY COUNCIL APPROVES IT, THEN IT WILL BE A TOTAL OF THREE FOR THE WEST END. BUT MURPHY, IT WOULD, I DON'T, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE 22 LIMIT IN DOWNTOWN BECAUSE IT'S THE WEST END CITY ONE. YEAH. THAT, THAT'S, YEAH. THAT'S A DIFFERENT, UH, THAT'S A DIFFERENT, UH, AREA. AREA AND DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS. YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH, I THINK THE 22 IS THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, RIGHT? YES. YEAH. I NEED TO GET A COPY MAP. IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENT SIGN DISTRICT. SEND IT TO ME. ONE OF THESE BACK. CAN YOU WANT GO BACK TO, TO THE, TO THE MAPS, WHAT DIFFERENT DISTRICT? BECAUSE I KNOW AT ONE POINT THERE WERE ONLY TWO ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS THAT HAD A FANCE SUFFICIENT TO SUPPORT THE SUPER GRAPHIC. MM-HMM. . AND THAT WAS LIKE THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO. I THINK WE RAN INTO THAT. SO IS THE HISTORIC, UM, COMMITTEE AND THE [00:25:01] LANDMARK COMMISSION REQUIRING ANY ANCHORING TO BE THROUGH THE MORTAR? OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO, UM, ADD INTO OUR RECOMMENDATION? SO, SO THE, UH, WE SPOKE WITH THE, UH, WITH THE LANDMARK, UH, COMMITTEE, AND THEY'RE OKAY WITH THE PROPOSAL, BUT THEY RECOMMEND TO PUT, TO PUT THOSE, UH, UH, MORTARS TO, TO ATTACH SO THAT, THAT THE BUILDING IS NOT, UH, DAMAGED AS IT STATED ON THE, ON THE PRESENTATIONS. RIGHT. BUT ARE IS YOUR QUESTION MORE ABOUT WHAT I WAS ASKING MIKE EARLIER ABOUT REINFORCEMENT FROM THE BACK SIDE? ASKING, ASKING IF WE NEED TO INCORPORATE THAT OH, OKAY. INTO OUR EITHER APPROVAL OR WHATEVER. IS THAT A CONDITION? EXACTLY. SHARE THAT SCREEN. SO THAT'S BEEN COVERED BY LANDMARK COMMISSION WITHIN THE STORY GROUP. AND IS THIS LOOSE FORWARD TO CITY PLANNING? WELL, HE'S PART OF CC FIRST. C FIRST. IS THAT RECOMMENDATION FROM LANDMARK TIED TO THIS AS PART OF IT, OR DO WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT AS PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATION HERE? NOW, USUALLY, AND YOU GUYS CORRECT ME IF I'M AN ERROR HERE. USUALLY IF WE GET THE SIGN FIRST AND THEN WE, WE SAY IT'S OKAY. YEAH. BUT IT'S A HISTORIC BUILDING. THEN IT GOES TO LANDMARK AND TO THE, I'VE FORGOTTEN THE NAME OF THE HISTORIC, IT'S NOT HISTORIC PRESERVATION LEAVE, BUT THE OTHER GROUP. SO IT'S JUST THAT THEY'VE ALREADY DONE THEIR PRELIMINARY WORK. MM-HMM. . SO IF WE HAVE ANY CONDITIONS WE WANT TO ADD THAT THEY HAVEN'T TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE, TODD, THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO ADD THAT CONDITION TO OUR RECOMMENDATION 'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY COVERED. OKAY. IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE. OKAY. YEAH, I JUST, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE YOU, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE, UH, BRICK IS PROTECTED. TRUE. YEAH. I NEED SCOTT TO PULL BACK UP THE, UH, ORIGINAL CONDITIONS IF HE CAN SO WE CAN VERIFY. SO, AND JUST MAKE EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. SORRY, THERE'S THE MAP. THERE'S THE MAP. OKAY. SO IF, IF YOU CAN, CAN YOU, UH, MR. JAR, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A QUESTION . I THINK THE QUESTION WAS MORE ABOUT THE CONDITIONS FOR THE MOUNTING AND STUFF, I THINK IS I, IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, THERE WAS QUESTION ABOUT IT COUNTED AGAINST THE, AGAINST THE NUMBER, BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, THERE'S A LIMIT. YEAH. THERE'S A LIMIT OF 22. THIS DOESN'T COUNT AGAINST THAT. IT'S IN THE WEST END, BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT BY VIA SUBDISTRICT. WELL, WEST END I THINK HAD A, THIS EACH, BECAUSE THIS IS A SEPARATE SUBDISTRICT, EACH SUBDISTRICT HAS LIMIT YOUR OWN LIMIT. THAT THIS SUBDISTRICT LEVEL LIMITED. THERE'S NOT, FOR THE WEST END, THERE'S NOT, YOU KNOW, 16 TIMES FIVE, SEVEN, NO. SO THAT ANSWERS TODD'S QUESTION. YEAH. SO THE, THE WEST, UH, THE WEST END IS THE, THE YELLOW LITTLE SIDE. AND THE CENTRAL DISTRICT IS THE, UH, ORANGE, ORANGE, UH, PINK, UH, YEAH. UH, LOOKING COLOR. SO THE ONE ON, ON THE LITTLE DISTRICT FOR THE WEST END, THERE'S A, UH, CURRENTLY THERE'S ONLY TWO SUPERGRAPHICS THAT ARE ALLOWED. AND IF, UH, THIS IS APPROVED, THEN IT WILL BE THREE. BUT, BUT THIS DOES, THIS IS THEIR OWN DISTRICT, SO IT WILL NOT AFFECT, UH, UNDERSTOOD. YEAH. IT WOULDN'T AFFECT THEIR ACCOUNT. THE, THE AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER PART OF YOUR, THE QUE THE TECHNICAL PART OF YOUR QUESTION, TODD? HE WAS ASKING IF THE, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION ABOUT KEEPING IT IN THE MORTAR UHHUH, IF THAT WE NEEDED TO ADD IT TO OUR, OUR CONDITIONS. OUR CONDITIONS. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S COVERED BECAUSE LANDMARKS RECOMMENDATIONS MOVE FORWARD. OH, HOLD ON TO NEXT THING. THE NEXT ONE. OH NO, THE PREVIOUS, I'M SORRY. THE PREVIOUS LINE. PREVIOUS. THE PREVIOUS. THE PREVIOUS, PREVIOUS. ANOTHER ONE. ANOTHER ONE. RIGHT. SO THE HISTORIC, UH, DESIGNATION COMMITTEE AND THE LANDMARK COMMISSION HAVE REVIEWED PROPOSED SUPER GRAPHIC SIGN. THE COMMENTS WERE, UH, SUPPORTED. THE ONLY REQUEST WAS IF, UH, TAGS ARE INVOLVED TO, TO, UH, SUPPORT THE, THE SIGN, UH, THEY MUST BE ATTACHED VIA THE MORTAR JUMPS TO PROTECT THE MASONRY. SO WHAT THE WAY IT WORKS IS ANYTIME FOR ANYTIME THAT, UH, THEY APPLY FOR A NEW SUPER GRAPHIC MM-HMM. , UM, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE LANDMARK COMMITTEE. YEAH. SO, AND THEY HAVE TO APPROVE IT AND THEY WILL ADD THE COMMENT AT THAT TIME YEAH. THAT IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE MORTAR JOINTS. THAT CON'S ALREADY ADDED. YEAH. BUT IN THE ENGINEER SPECIFICATION, YOU CAN DRILL THROUGH MORTAR AND JUST PUT AN ANCHOR BOLT IN THERE. I GUESS MY CONCERN IS FROM THE ENGINEERING SPECIFICATIONS, DOES IT HAVE THOSE REINFORCEMENTS THAT WE HAD WITH THE BUILDING SEND THE ENGINEERING? YEAH. AND THAT, THAT GOES FROM THE TROUBLE READING THE ENGINEERING AND THAT ALL THAT THAT REQUIRE COMES FROM LANDMARK AND THAT THAT, AND THAT HAPPENS ANYTIME THEY CHANGE THE [00:30:01] GRAPHIC, IT GOES THROUGH LANDMARK. SO THEY DOWNTOWN THEY JUST SWAP 'EM OUT. BUT SINCE THIS IS HISTORIC, WHEN THEY JUST SAY IF THEY RUN SOMETHING FOR LIKE A MONTH MM-HMM. , WHEN THEY, EVERY TIME THEY CHANGE IT, LANDMARK HAS TO APPROVE THE COPY THAT'S GOING UP THERE. NOW THE REST OF DOWNTOWN DOESN'T HAVE TO DO THAT. RIGHT. WE APPROVE IT. BUT SINCE THIS ONE LANDMARK HAS TO APPROVE A COPY CHANGE EVERY TIME THEY DO IT. SO WHEN THEY DO IT THAT THEY WILL PUT THAT ON THEIR CONDITIONS EVERY TIME. AND LANDMARK HAS TO SEE THE ENGINEERING THAT'S A PART OF THEIR RIGHT. OKAY. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. YEAH. I WAS LIKE JUST WORRIED ABOUT THAT ONE THING. YEAH. THEN IS THERE, AND IT, YOU KNOW, THE CONTENT BETTER THAN I DO, IS THERE A HISTORIC CONTEXT THAT MUST BE APPLIED? IN OTHER WORDS, CAN THIS JUST BE LIKE A MODERN GRAPHIC OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORY OF THE DISTRICT THERE? WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED DOESN'T PUT ANY RESTRICTIONS ON THE CONTENT OF THE SIGNAGE. THE OWNER, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE OWNERSHIP IS INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT HISTORIC ADVERTISING. UM, YOU KNOW, AN OLD TEND TO, AND FOUR, DR. PEPPER A SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME SOMETHING THAT HAS A LITTLE BIT OF CALLBACK. IT HAS SOME CHARACTER TOO. BUT IN TERMS OF PURSE AND ANTIOCH, THEY'RE RUNNING JUST NORMAL. WHAT YOU WOULD FIND ON A BILLS, DOESN'T THAT GO BACK TO THE REQUIREMENTS ON THE SUPER GRAPHIC CONTENT PERIOD? BECAUSE THE SUPER GRAPHIC WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE MORE GRAPHICAL AND LESS ADVERTISING. AND IF, IF THE LANDMARK CONVICTION USED THAT BASED ON MORE GRAPHICAL THAN, YOU KNOW, JUST BILLBOARDS. YEAH. WELL, WE'RE THE ONE, WE ACTUALLY DETERMINED THE AMOUNT OF TEXT TO THE GRAPHIC. YEAH, IT IS. AND YOU CAN'T, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE DOING THE PURSE. I THINK THE PURSE WAS BEFORE THE ANTIOCH. IT WAS WHEN WE DID THAT. YEAH. THEY HAD, AND IF Y'ALL REMEMBER, THEY HAD THIS OLD DR. PEPPER AD. YES. IT WAS LIKE A 1940 CIRCUS. AND THAT'S WHAT THEY PROPOSED. AND, AND THEN WHAT WE GOT, WE WENT BACK. YEAH. AND WHAT YOU GOT, THE FIRST AD THEY PUT UP THERE WAS RED BULL. YEAH. YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, WHAT IS THAT? THE NITRO CIRCUS AND RED BULL. WELL, WHEN YOU GUYS WENT BACK TO DO THE ANTIOCH, YOU MENTIONED THE, YOU KNOW, THE CONTENT, IT'S A HISTORIC BUILDING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT. BUT THE CITY ATTORNEYS, IT'S CONTENT BASED AND WE CAN'T REGULATE CONTENT BASED BECAUSE IT'S LIKE THE FREEDOM MESQUITE TAG. IT'S FOR ADVERTISING, WHICH MAKES SENSE. BUT IF, IF I REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL IDEA AND THE, THE CONCEPT BEHIND SUPER GRAPHIC THAT WAS DESCRIBED CONTENT FOR THE SUPER GRAPHIC. YES. WAS, AND AGAIN, MAYBE IT'S NOT CONTENT IN TERMS OF HISTORIC OR WHATEVER, BUT IT WAS A MORE GRAPHICAL, MORE, YOU KNOW, NOT PERFECT. WE GOT IN TROUBLE FOR THAT ALSO BECAUSE, SO REALLY WE CAN'T AT ALL. IT'S YEAH. IN ALL, IN ALL RESPECTS, IT'S A BILLBOARD WHEN THE ORDINANCE SAYS INTENT, WE CAN'T HOLD ANYBODY TO WELL, WHICH IS, WE'VE HAD 'EM UP HERE WHERE THERE'S JUST A, LIKE A RED BACKGROUND. YEAH. WE JUST, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO GRAPHIC ON THERE. BUT WE, WE PRETTY MUCH, OUR ATTORNEYS, WE DENIED IT AND SAID IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE INTENT. BUT THAT JUST SAYS THE INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE. AND SO WE CAN'T HOLD 'EM TO PUTTING GRAPHICS UP THERE BECAUSE, WELL, AND PHILLIP IS AN ATTORNEY, SO I'M SURE HE'S RESEARCHED IT THOROUGH TOO. AND I GUESS, YOU KNOW, DOWNTOWN WE'VE SEEN SOME, SOME LOCATIONS WHERE THE, THE INTENT OF THE SUPER GRAPHIC HAS BEEN HONORED AND YOU'VE SEE MUCH MORE PRACTICAL, GRAPHICAL, ARTISTIC WITH L LESS TEXT AND THEN OTHER ONES IT BILLBOARD. JUST A BILLBOARD. YEAH. YEAH. AND YOU KNOW, YOU'D SEE IT ANYWHERE ON THE HIGHWAY. YOU SEE IT ON THE BILLBOARD. SO, BUT IS WHAT SAYING WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT. WE CAN'T REGULATE IT. SO WE'RE ESSENTIALLY, INSTEAD OF THOSE SUPER GRAPHIC, IT'S BILLBOARD IN, IN ALL, HERE'S AN EXAMPLE. BUT DOESN'T, DOESN'T DOWNTOWN LIMIT THE, UH, AMOUNT OF TEXT. NOT, NOT THE CONTENT OF THE TEXT, BUT THE ACTUAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE TEXT. THAT'S THE ONLY THING YOU CAN REALLY YEAH. POSSIBLY CAN CHECK THE AMOUNT. 20, 20%, RIGHT? MM-HMM. IN DOWNTOWN, I DON'T THINK, IS IT LIMITED HERE? YES, IT IS LIMITED, YEAH. TO 20% TEXT. BUT, UM, THEY LIMITED THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ALSO IN DOWNTOWN. BUT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF THE OTHERS IN WEST END OF THE LETTER THAT LANDMARK SENDS. AND THEN, UM, OKAY. THEIR, THE CAS THAT THEY GET, THIS IS WHERE THEY ACTUALLY REVIEW IT. OKAY. OKAY. AND THEY REVIEW THE CONTENT THAT, AND THEY REVIEW THE ENGINEERING. OKAY. SO LANDMARK DOES REVIEW ALL THAT BEFORE WE EVEN SEE IT. YEAH. OKAY. BUT THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE. [00:35:01] OKAY. SO, HEY, UM, GOING BACK TO THE ANCHORS. SO ONCE, ONCE YOU PUT IN THE, UH, PERMANENT ANCHORS FOR THE FIRST ONE, THEY DON'T GET UTILIZED AGAIN? UH, DEPENDING ON THE YEAH, DEPENDING ON THE SETUP. A LOT OF THEM USE, UH, THE ANCHORS SET UP WITH, WITH TIES THAT THEY REUSE AS A FORMAT OR SIZE OR WHATEVER. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. DID YOU WANT ME TO PUT THAT BACK UP? NO. MURPHY? NO, I, I JUST CURIOSITY MORE THAN ANYTHING. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? BECAUSE MR. KINGSTON DOES HAVE A PRESENTATION. YEAH, I CAN GET THAT UP REAL QUICK. OKAY. THANKS. SORRY ABOUT THAT GUY. OKAY. THANK YOU. SORRY, WE JUST SKIPPED DOWN AND DIRTY. , IT'S YOUR WELL DONE. OSCAR, WELCOME BACK. THANK YOU SO MUCH, . I'M, I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE BACK. AND KATIE, I CAN'T REMEMBER, BUT MISSOURI CAMPUS, KANSAS, TEXAS. YEAH. TEXAS. OKAY. 'CAUSE MY GRANDFATHER OR MY GRANDFATHER DESIGNED BRIDGES FOR THEM. IT IS ROLLED UP IN UNION PACIFIC NOW, I BELIEVE. YEAH. UM, OKAY. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. YES. UM, THE, I JUST WANTED Y'ALL TO KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE OWNER EXPANSIVE, BOUGHT THIS THING IN. UM, JUST BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, UM, BUILDING WAS A, IT'S JUST THE BUILDING THAT ALL THAT PARKING LOT THAT'S, THAT YOU SEE IN ALL OF OSCAR'S IMAGES AND MINE, WE DON'T OWN IT. AND THE, UH, THE, IT'S THE PARKING LOT OWNER WHO OWNED THOSE TREES? UH, I CALL 'EM FUNERAL CEDARS. THE, YEAH. THEY WERE THERE AGAINST THE WALL AND THEY, HE TOOK THOSE DOWN A FEW MONTHS AGO. WE DIDN'T, WE HAD NO IDEA THAT THAT WAS HAPPENING. UM, THIS IS NOT EXPANSIVES ONLY HISTORIC BUILDING. THEY HAVE HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN CHICAGO, UM, KANSAS CITY AND SOME OTHER PLACES. AND THEY DON'T, UM, THEY'RE OWNER OPERATORS. THEY, THEY DON'T DO CONSTRUCTION. THEY DON'T FLIP BUILDINGS. THEY, THEY OWN AND OPERATE AND THEY REALLY ONLY, THEY REALLY ONLY DO OFFICE. SO, UM, THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE KATY BUILDING BECAUSE IT IS NOT A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO RETROFIT FOR RESIDENTIAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT HAS NO PARKING. THEY OWN A VERY TINY PARKING LOT JUST TO THE NORTH OF THE STRUCTURE. UM, BUT IT'S A PAY LOT. IT DOESN'T EVEN REALLY OPERATE FOR THE, THE TENANTS OF THE BUILDING. UM, NEXT SLIDE, IF IMPOSSIBLE, REDUCTION IN PARKING, HOW ARE THEY GONNA HANDLE THAT? UH, THEY, THEY HAVE LEASED UP WITHOUT PARKING. SO THERE'S AN OFFICE SHARE USE THAT TAKES UP MULTIPLE FLOORS OF THE BUILDING. UM, THERE'S AN ARCHITECTURE FIRM, UM, THERE'S TWO OR THREE OTHER TENANTS IN THERE THAT JUST SIMPLY DON'T REQUIRE THAT MUCH PARKING. RIGHT. UM, I WANTED TO SHOW YOU THIS PICTURE BECAUSE WE GOT A QUESTION ABOUT THE GHOST SIGN. AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT THERE IS JUST THE BEAR REMNANT OF AN OLD GHOST SIGN. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT SAYS. I TRIED TO READ IT. I CAN'T. UM, WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHEN THE EAST WALL GOT PAINTED. WE THINK IT'S TWO OR THREE OWNERS BACK. UM, SO IT IS A, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD A GO SIGN, LIKE, UH, PURSES DOES, THEN WE WOULD NOT BE SUBMITTING A PROPOSAL TO COVER IT UP AT ALL. BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE PRESERVING ANYTHING HERE. RIGHT. UM, NEXT SLIDE. UH, HERE'S THE PERSON. ANTIOCH IS WHAT THEY'VE GOT. I DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB OF GIVING YOU SCALE OF THESE. THE ANTIOX SIGN IS ACTUALLY MUCH LARGER THAN THE PURSE SIGN . IT'S JUST A, A, A REFLECTION OF HOW CLOSE I WAS TO THE BUILDING AT THE TIME. MM-HMM. . AND OUR SIGN WILL BE, UH, SMALLER THAN ANTIOX. UM, NEXT SIGN WHERE YOU'RE, YOU'RE PERMITTING IT UP TO I THINK 6,500 FEET. BUT AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT 4,000 FEET AVAILABLE ON THE BUILDING. MM-HMM. , PLEASE DON'T TELL TARGET WE SOLD THEIR ADVERTISING, BUT IF THEY DO WANNA ADVERTISE WITH US, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO HAVE THEM. UM, THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY PRESENTATION. THE, UH, THE, THE, THE ISSUE HERE, THE, THE REASON WE'RE ASKING YOU FOR THIS IS JUST REVENUE. THE BUILDING MAKES GOOD REVENUE FOR LOWER, UH, RENT TENANTS. UM, AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE LOW RENT, IT JUST MEANS THAT THEY CAN AFFORD LESS RENT. AND SO IT PROVIDES A, A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE SPACE IN A HISTORIC BUILDING. UH, AND THERE IS SOME DEMAND FOR THAT. BUT, UH, JUST TO HELP US KEEP THAT BUILDING PROFITABLE, IT LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN DOWNTOWN THE PAN, THE [00:40:01] PANDEMIC WAS A DISASTER FOR THIS BUILDING IN TERMS OF ITS REVENUE. AND N ANYBODY WHO OPERATES DOWNTOWN CAN TELL YOU THAT IT HAS NOT BOUNCED ALL THE WAY BACK YET. THAT THERE'S STILL QUITE A LONG WAY TO GO. WE ARE, WE ARE EXTREMELY OPTIMISTIC ON THIS BUILDING. WE THINK IT, IT WILL ALWAYS HAVE AN APPEAL FOR LAWYERS' OFFICES. THE, THE BUILDING JUST CATEGORY IS THE GEORGE ALLEN COURTHOUSE. UM, I'M ACTUALLY THINKING OF TRADING WITH THE CLIENT FOR SOME SPACE FOR MYSELF. SO , WELL, IT'S A GREAT LOCATION. I'VE ALWAYS LOVED IT. UM, IT HAS DONE WELL ON THE GROUND FLOOR ON MARKET FOR, UM, DAYTIME RESTAURANT, UH, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE GEORGE ALLEN'S, UM, CAFETERIA WAS CLOSED FOR QUITE A LONG TIME. UH, SO WE THINK THAT'S GONNA BE A GOOD FUTURE USE FOR THAT. WE, WE LOVE THIS BUILDING. WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT IT. IT JUST NEEDS US A LITTLE BIT OF HELP AND WE APPRECIATE IT. IF YOU ALL WOULD HELP US HELP IT. PHILLIP, IS THE SIZE OF THE SIGN THAT'S DEPICTED THERE, THE SIZE THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE, BECAUSE I'M CONFUSED. DO YOU HAVE BETWEEN 1,260 500 SQUARE FEET THAT YOU CAN USE? SO WHAT IS THE ACTUAL SIZE OF THE SIGN HERE? IF THAT SIGN WERE UP THERE THE WAY IT IS, IT WOULD BE RIGHT AROUND 4,000 SQUARE FEET. MM-HMM. . UM, WE DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET IT QUITE THAT BIG BECAUSE YOU SEE THE LITTLE NOTCH THAT'S PUT OUT TO PRESERVE THE COMMERCE FACADE. ADVERTISERS DON'T LIKE THAT. THEY WANT A REGULAR SIZE 'CAUSE THEY'RE TRADING, UH, API FILES, YOU KNOW, AND IT IS JUST, THEY CAN'T REALLY CUSTOMIZE IT TO A BUILDING THE WAY YOU WOULD HOPE THAT THEY COULD. SO I SUSPECT WHAT WE'LL WIND UP WITH IS PEOPLE EITHER ADVERTISING SHORTER STUFF ON THE, UH, EAST OR THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING OR TALLER STUFF ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. IS THAT THE 10 FOOT LINE? IT, IT, THIS JUST AN APPROXIMATION. OKAY. I SUSPECT THAT BECAUSE OF THE VISIBILITY, NO ONE WILL WANT TO PUT IT CLOSER TO THE GROUND THAN 10 FEET BECAUSE THEY'VE LIGHT IT UP WITH THE CORNER LINE THERE, WHICH IS NICE, BUT THAT LOOKS TALLER THAN 10 FEET. AND RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, ME AND MY SIZE OF SIGNS RIGHT NOW IS JUST LIKE OVERWHELMING. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING HOW MUCH OF THAT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE THE ACTUAL SUN SIZE? IS IT GOING TO BE THAT ENTIRE AREA? IF WE, WE HAD THAT ONE UP THERE TODAY, IT WOULD BE RIGHT AROUND 4,000 SQUARE FEET. THAT BUILDING IS, UH, THAT WALL, UM, MEASURED FROM NORTH TO SOUTH IS LIKE 37 FEET, 40 FEET, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. MM-HMM. . SO WHAT IS THE ACTUAL SIZE THAT YOU ARE, I DON'T REMEMBER THE ACTUAL SIZE THAT'S LISTED. I KNOW THERE WERE PARAMETERS SET FOR SIGN IN THIS DISTRICT, BUT WHAT WAS THE ACTUAL SIZE LIMITATION? BECAUSE OSCAR, I THINK YOU HAD RECOMMENDED REDUCING THE SITE A CERTAIN EXTENT. IT'S FROM 1,200 TO 6,500. THE, THE LIMIT. I THOUGHT SHE SAID SOMETHING IN YOUR PRESENTATION ABOUT LIMITING IT TO 1200. THE, THE, THAT'S WHY I'M CONFUSED. YEAH. SO THE, THE, THE 1200 IS BECAUSE OF THE BEAUTIFICATION HIGHWAY ACT FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THEN THE INCLUSION OF, UH, COMMERCE STREET ON MAP, UH, 21. BUT THAT WOULD ONLY KICK IN IF SWITCH THE DIRECTION. CORRECT. RIGHT. OKAY. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT IT. RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT FACING IT AS YOUR DRIVING. HP A'S PRETTY INTERESTING. FOR ME IT IS LEGAL STUFF. THE H THE ORIGINAL HBA NEWS FROM BACK IN THE SIXTIES, IT WAS A BIG, UH, LADY BIRD JOHNSON PRIORITY. MM-HMM. . AND, UM, IT GOT EXPANDED FAIRLY RECENTLY TO STREETS THAT THE STATE DEPARTMENTS OF TRANSPORTATION DESIGNATED AS, UH, CONNECTORS OR ARTERIALS. MM-HMM. IMPORTANT STREETS AND COMMERCE IS ONE OF THOSE, THE ONLY REASON WE'RE ALLOWED TO GO BIGGER THAN 1200 FEET IS BECAUSE COMMERCE HAS TRAFFIC THAT GOES THE OTHER WAY. MM-HMM. , STRANGELY, MAINE. AND, UH, LAMAR, NOT LAMAR, LAMAR IS DESIGNATED. IT IS ALSO AN WORK STREET. THE REASON LAMAR DOESN'T TRIGGER THE 1200 FOOT LIMIT IS BECAUSE OF THE, UH, OFFICE, THE PARKING LOT FOR, UH, BANK OF AMERICA. IF IT, IF THAT PARKING GARAGE WEREN'T THERE, YOU'D BE ABLE TO SEE IT AND WE WOULD BE LIMITED TO THE 1200 FEET. MAINE AND, UH, AUSTIN. AUSTIN IS THAT LITTLE STUB STREET WHERE YOU SAW OSCAR STOP? YEAH. UM, ARE TWO OF A VERY SMALL NUMBER [00:45:01] OF STREETS IN DOWNTOWN THAT WERE NOT DESIGNATED BY TDOT AS CONTRIBUTING TO THE HIGHWAY BEAUTIFICATION AREA. OKAY. AND THE, THE, IN FACT, THE THE SIGNS THAT ARE ON PERSON ANTIOCH TODAY OR GRANDFATHER, THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE AS BIG AS THEY ARE TODAY. WE'RE HOPING THEY'RE GONNA BE GRANDFATHERED. WE'RE STILL WORKING WITH ALL THE SUPER PRACTICE DOWN. WE, THAT'S MY CONCERN BECAUSE Y'ALL MENTIONED IN THE PRESENTATION, PHILLIP, THAT IT MIGHT EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THE CITY OF DALLAS CHANGING STREETS AND DIRECTIONS OF TRAFFIC ALL THE TIME. SO IF WE ALLOWED LIKE, LET'S SAY THE 4,000 SQUARE FEET LOOKING AT, AND THEN THIS BECAME A HIGHWAY, BEAUTIFICATION STREET WITH THAT. WELL, LEGALLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE GRANDFATHERED THEN BECAUSE WE HAD ESTABLISHED A PRESIDENT AND WE HAD NOT LIMITED THE SIZE OF THE SITE. NOW TECH STOCK MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION. IF TECH STOCK HAD A DIFFERENT OPINION, WE WOULD SHRINK THE SIZE OF THE SIGN. IT'S ALREADY APPROVED FOR 1200 FEET. SO WE DON'T WOULD'VE GOT BUILT. HERE'S SO IF THAT BECOMES A TWO WAY STREET OR THEY CHANGE THE DIRECTION, THEY WOULDN'T TO COME BACK TO US BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE 1200 COVERS. YEAH. HERE'S THE, GO BACK TO THIS. THEY GO TO THAT SIZE. ALL THESE STREETS IN RED ARE TEXAS CERTIFIED CITY. WOW. AND YEAH. SO THESE ARE SLOW COMPLICATE OUR LIVES. YEAH. THESE ARE FEDERALLY-FUNDED ROADS. WOW. AND SEE THAT WAS THE THING, HOW, HOW TEXDOT EXPLAINED IT TO US WHEN WE, WHEN WE STARTED DOING ALL THIS, THEY SAID THE CITY ACCEPTED MONEY. OF COURSE, OF COURSE. FROM THE STATE OF COURSE, TO GO IN AND HELP THEM KEEP THEIR ROADS UPDATED. RIGHT. IF THEY WOULD AGREE TO THE MAP 21. AND OF COURSE CITY SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE US MONEY TOMORROW. YOU CAN DO THAT. THAT, BUT, UM, THE, IT'S INTERESTING. I, I THINK THE, THE IDEA BEHIND HD IS REALLY GOOD. SO IN GENERAL, I DON'T WANT PROPOSE SCIENCE THAT WOULD RUN AFOUL OF IT, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE BIG RECTANGULAR SECTION FROM HOUSTON TO LAMAR WHERE THEY DID NOT DESIGNATE ANYTHING. THAT'S WHAT ALLOWS FOR THE SIGN. RIGHT. ACTUALLY, JASON AND OSCAR ARE SUPER ON TOP OF THIS STUFF AND HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL ON THIS PROJECT. BUT WE ACTUALLY DID GO TO TXDOT TO GET AN OPINION ABOUT THIS, AND WE GOT THE SAME OPINION THAT JASON AND OSCAR HAD COME UP WITH. OKAY. MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE MAP 21 EXPIRED ALREADY, LIKE IN 2000. LIKE IT WAS, IT WAS UP TO 2014. AND, AND I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY LIKE CASE, BUT IT WAS, IT WAS ALREADY EXPIRED IN 2014 AND THEN IT WAS EXTENDED FOR AN ADDITIONAL TWO YEARS. BUT THAT WAS FOR THE, FOR THE FUNDS TO GIVE THE MONEY. BUT SO I DID, I DID, I WAS, UH, TALKING WITH JASON, I WAS TELLING HIM, JASON, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WE SHOULD PUT A, BUT BECAUSE THE CITY TOOK MONEY AS MY ESTATE, SO NOW WE'RE UH, UH, WE'RE LIKE TIGHT RIGHT. TO STILL HERE YOU ARE. YEAH. YOU SOLD YOURSELF. YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. SO THEN I GUESS TO GO BACK TO MY QUESTION, IF COMMERCE EVER BECAME, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW ME, I DO NOT LIKE EXTRA LARGE SIGNS. AND SO IF IT DID GO BACK, THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO REVERT TO THE 1200 SQUARE. YEAH. IT WOULD BE LIMITED TO 1200. RIGHT. OKAY. YOU GUYS CAN OVERRIDE ME, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT A LITTLE BIT SMALLER SURFACE AREA FOR THE SIGN. AND YOU SIGN PROFESSIONALS OVER THERE. NO CURMUDGEON WHEN IT COMES TO SIZES, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE FOR THAT SUN'S BUILDING, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A VERY LARGE SIGN FOR THE SIZE OF THAT BUILDING, EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE GOT FACADE. BECAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN WE HAD THE ONE IN ERIC JOHNSON LIBRARY AND IT COVERED THE MAIN WHOLE FRONT OF THE LIBRARY AND IT ALWAYS SEEMED DISPROPORTIONATE TO ME. BUT YOU GUYS ARE THE SIGN PROFESSIONALS AND I'M JUST THE, UH, PERMIT. THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING WHERE THE 10 FOOT LINE IS. BECAUSE IF THAT'S 4,000 SQUARE FEET RIGHT THERE AND THE UPPER LIMIT IS 6,500 SQUARE FEET, THAT WOULD BE PRETTY MUCH 10 FOOT AND ABOVE ON THE FACADE. MM-HMM. , I, THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION, BUT ARE WE TALKING JUST LIMITED TO THIS SURFACE AREA IN THIS LOCATION OR THE BUILDING IN TOTAL? OR YOU MEAN OFFICE NOW'S TAKEN INTO ATION MURPHY? I'M SORRY, I'M FOLLOWING YOUR JUST THIS SIDE. RIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING IS IS EXCUSE OR CAN IT GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OR MR. WEBSTER, THE WAY WE'VE WRITTEN IT, IT WILL APPLY ONLY TO THAT WALL. WE WILL NOT GET ANY RIGHT TO PUT A SIGN ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE BUILDING. GOTCHA, GOTCHA. UH, YOU HAVE A BACKWARDS, BUT I BELIEVE THE [00:50:06] AND, UH, I DIDN'T BRING MY SKILL, BUT I CAN GO AND ASK FOR, FOR ONE. IT'S JUST, YOUR HONOR, I GUESS MY CONCERN IS MORE ABOUT SCALE. SO, UM, IN THE, IN THE DOWNTOWN, THE, THE SUPERGRAPHICS IN THE DOWNTOWN, THERE'S A SUNSET DATE AND WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN ONCE TO THAT. UH, WE'VE BEEN ONCE TO THAT DATE ALREADY. AND IT'S BEEN EXTENDED TO WHAT, 2027 I THINK WAS THE NEXT TIME THE SUPERGRAPHICS CAME UP. I THINK THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT WAS THE REGULAR, WAS THAT THE REGULAR DOWNTOWN? WHAT WAS UP THERE? DO YOU SEE WHERE HIS SUNSETS ARE ON THE OH, THAT WAS JUST THE, UH, I WAS TRYING TO THINK HOW MUCH PRESENTATION THAT WAS JUST THE DISTRICT. JUST THE YEAH. THAT OR THE, WELL, I THOUGHT IT WAS THE DOWNTOWN SIGNS THAT HAD THE SUNSET DATE. WELL, THEY DO HAVE A SUNSET, BUT ONE OF THESE, ONE OF THESE, ONE OF THESE THAT'S THAT, THAT GOES TO MY QUESTION BECAUSE I WAS SURPRISED THAT THE, UH, THE OTHER BUILDING, BUT DO WE HAVE A SUNSET? BECAUSE THIS IS A NEW SPSD. DOES IT HAVE A SUNSET DATE? AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHERE OSCAR HAD IN HIS, WHERE HE HAD THE COMPARISON. YEAH. LET'S SEE HERE. AND I'M SORRY FOR ING UP. I THINK THAT YOU'RE FINE. THE DOWNTOWN SUN SUNSET AND ACCORDING TO THE CHART, THE ANTIOCH DOES SUNSET IN 2027. BUT THE PURSE, YEAH, THERE YOU GO. ANYHOW, SO THAT'S WHAT SURPRISED ME IS THAT PURSE DIDN'T, UM, I THOUGHT WE HAD A SUNSET ON ALL OF 'EM, BUT I MEAN, YEAH, I THINK WHEN WE, I THINK WHEN WE DID THE ANTIOCH, IT WAS RIGHT AFTER WE DID THE DOWNTOWN AND WE LIMITED IT TO THE SAME SUNSET CLAUSE. YEAH. YES. SORRY. NO, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WAS REMEMBERING WHAT IT'S SPECIFIED IN THERE IN TERMS OF DURATION, EXCUSE ME, ALLERGIES, WOULD THERE BE OPPOSITION TO ADDING A SUNSET CLAUSE TO THIS? YEAH. 'CAUSE ANTIOCH IS, DOES HAVE THE SAME SUNSET BASE DOWNTOWN, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE IT ON THE PURSE. YEAH. MARKET CENTER DOESN'T HAVE IT EITHER. AND THIS WOULD BE A STANDALONE SPSD, SO MM-HMM. . BUT ANTIOCH WAS A STANDALONE TOO. UH, ALL THREE ARE ACTUALLY PER ANTIOCH AND, AND THIS ONE, YEAH. IT, IT'S THE WAY YOU HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE OF THE RIGHT. HISTORIC DISTRICT TWO MM-HMM. . SO THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I GUESS MY BIGGEST PROBLEMS WAS THE, WAS THE CONTENT, BUT WE CAN'T CONTROL THE CONTENT IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND. SO, YOU KNOW, CALLING A SUPER GRAPHICS MISNOMER AT THIS POINT, IT'S REALLY, IT'S A BILLBOARD. AND THEN SEEING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE, THE DOWNTOWN, WE HAVE A SUNSET DATE SO THAT WE CAN ALWAYS REVISIT THAT HERE. LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY ONE RIGHT NOW WE CAN REVISIT IS ANTI OFF IS N AND OFF. MM-HMM. . SO I DON'T, I DON'T OPPOSE, I DON'T OPPOSE THE DISLOCATION THAT, THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING IS OBVIOUSLY NOT AESTHETIC AND, YOU KNOW, COULD NO, NOT, YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S BEING ALLOWED ON OTHER AREAS. SO, YOU KNOW, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE A, A GOOD USE HERE. UM, MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, THE, WE CAN'T REVISIT IT ONCE IT, IF, IF, IF WE GO FORWARD AND IT DOESN'T SUNSET, WE CAN'T REVISIT IT. RIGHT. MURPHY, TODD, WHAT'S YOUR INPUT ON THAT? GO AHEAD. I, I THINK TO ME, I'M KIND OF TORN AS FAR AS THE SIZE GOES. MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS, YOU KNOW, IF WE LIMITED IT TO, TO LIKE 80% OF THE FACADE, BUT, BUT THEN LOOKING AT THAT BIG PAINTED CANVAS ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING YEAH. YOU KNOW, WITHIN AND WITH THE GRAPHIC THAT WAS PROPOSED, THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL. YEAH. UM, JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE ALREADY GOTTEN THE ENTIRE SIDE OF THE BUILDING IS A, IS A BIG CANVAS. UM, AND THE, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT SUNSET AND AGAIN, WITH THE GHOST SIGN BEING PAINTED OVER BEFORE. YEAH, YEAH. THERE'S NOTHING REDEEMING ABOUT THAT SIDE, ESPECIALLY WITH THAT PAINT. YEAH. WE CAN'T PRESERVE THE GHOST SIGN. IT'S, IT'S ALREADY GONE. SO [00:55:01] JUST, JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE, WHAT WOULD SUNSET LOOK, LOOK LIKE ON THIS? IF YOU ADD THAT, UM, THAT CONDITION? YEAH. TIMEFRAME WISE. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN, JUST AGAIN, MORE CURIOSITY THAN ANYTHING, BUT, UM, I, I KIND OF GET WHERE COST COMING FROM, YOU KNOW, AND IT HAS BEEN A MAINSTAY ON JUST ABOUT ALL THE OTHERS. CORRECT. CORRECT. QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS. MURPHY, YOU MAY NOT ANSWERED. SCOTT. MICHAEL, WHEN YOU SET UP THAT ORIGINAL SUNSET, WHAT WAS THE DURATION? WAS IT X NUMBER OF YEARS THE WAY 15 YEARS, 10 YEARS, 20 YEARS? WHAT WAS, WAS THAT, BECAUSE I MEAN, WE DON'T STICK THEM WITH THE 2027 BECAUSE THAT'S ALREADY LICENSED AND IN PLACE. UM, HONESTLY, I, I WOULDN'T SAY 'CAUSE I DON'T, DON'T, WE DIDN'T SETTLE, YOU KNOW, THEY, THE FIRST, THE, THE, THE, THE ORIGINAL 22 IS LIKE THE SUPER GRAPHIC, YOU KNOW, THAT STARTED ALL, AND IT'S SUNSET ALREADY. AND YOU GOT, IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T 22, IT WAS 12 TO START WITH. IT WAS 12 OR 16. IT WAS 12 BECAUSE WHEN IT CAME UP FOR SUNSET, THERE WAS A BIG DEMAND TO ADD MORE. YEAH. AND THAT TIME WE VOTED IN FAVOR OF THAT. AND, AND THE SUNSET THAT CHANGED AGAIN. UM, BUT THAT WAS, THAT WAS IT IN 22? I CAN'T REMEMBER. NO, IT WASN BACK. IT'S BEEN A WHILE. MAYBE WE HAD THE 22 FOR 2009 WAS, I MEAN, IT WAS, IT WAS WHILE BACK. AND THEN 2011 WAS WHEN THE SECOND GROUP WAS ADDED. YEAH. OKAY. SO THE ONLY ONE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW, UH, IS THE PURSE THAT HAS NO SUNSET, CORRECT? NO, IN THAT, IN THAT DISTRICT AS OPPOSED, BUT THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT MURPHY. OKAY. OKAY. AND THE, THERE'S ONE IN THE MARKET CENTER SUBDISTRICT, THAT ALSO DOESN'T SUNSET. YEAH. OKAY. I MEAN, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE SUNSET, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN ALL FAIRNESS, 2027 IS KIND OF SHORT. YOU KNOW, I, I THINK AT LEAST A FIVE, A FIVE YEAR MINIMUM, IF NOT A 10 YEAR, YOU KNOW, SUNSET DATE YEARS 14TH. YEAH. YEAH. 15TH. SO WE HAVE FIVE YEARS SUGGESTED, 10 YEARS SUGGESTED. DO WE HAVE A CONSENSUS? I MEAN, 10 YEARS SOUNDS MORE REASONABLE. MM-HMM. MURPHY'S YOUR THOUGHT. WE'VE GIVEN YOU A HEADACHE, MURPHY. I'M SORRY. NO. HEY, TODAY'S MY BIRTHDAY. . OH, BIRTHDAY. HAPPY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY. YESTERDAY, MY ANNIVERSARY. SO MY, AND AND SUNDAY WAS MOTHER'S DAY. IT'S THE TRIFECTA, UH, WE CALL IT MOTHER BIRTH ANNIVERSARY WEEKEND. SO, UM, . OH, MURPHY. RIGHT. UM, YEAH, JUST, JUST SOMETHING ABOUT BEING OPEN-ENDED JUST SEEMS BOTHERSOME. UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE, SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S OUTTA LINE EITHER. AND AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S TODD, TODD. YOU KNOW, WHEN TODD BROUGHT IT UP, IT DID. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. NOW THOSE SIGNS THAT WE DO THAT WE PERMIT, THEY HAVE NO, UH, UH, SUNSET ON THEM. SO, YOU KNOW, I, I MEAN THE VALIDITY OF IT IS, IS, UH, PROBABLY MUTE. UM, OKAY. WELL, OKAY. IF THIS, WE'RE DRAGGING THIS ON A LONG TIME AND I, I DON'T WANNA EVERYBODY UP ALL DAY. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY, DOES ANYBODY SUPPORT MY CONCERN ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE SIGN? IF YOU DON'T, THEN I'LL LABEL IT. THAT THAT DOESN'T WORK TO ME AS MUCH. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE CONCERN HERE IS ABOUT THE DURATION OF THE SIGN. AND I'VE HEARD YOU GUYS SAY FIVE YEARS, I'VE HEARD YOU SAY 10 YEARS. AND THEN DAVID, YOU THINK 10 YEARS IS A MORE REASONABLE DURATION. I THINK THAT'S MORE REASONABLE. SO DO WE HAVE THE CONSENSUS THEN ON THE DURATION THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND? BECAUSE AS, AS DAVID POINTED OUT, HE CAN ALWAYS BE OVERRID AT CC, IT'S JUST OUR RECOMMENDATION OR WHATEVER. YEAH, YEAH. NO. SO IT WOULD BE A CONDITION THAT WE WOULD WRITE INTO AN APPROVAL THAT THAT'S THE WAY YOU GUYS WANNA GO AND WE CAN SEND IT FORWARD THEN WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION. SO I, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF 10 YEARS. OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION THEN? I, I JUST HAVE ONE MORE ONE, ONE MORE QUESTION. UM, SURE. SO, UH, I SAW THERE WAS A PUBLIC PARKING LOT NEXT DOOR. RIGHT? SOMEBODY BUYS THAT, THEY BUILD A BIG BUILDING AND I'M SURE I'M, I'M ASSUMING THAT THERE'D BE NO, NO WAY TO STOP 'EM FROM THAT, WHICH WOULD MAKE [01:00:01] THIS RECOURSE IF SOMEBODY BUYS THAT LAND, THEY CAN GO IN AND BUILD WHAT THEY WANT. YEAH. YEAH. KNOW IF IT'S, I DON'T KNOW. IS A PARKING LOT ZONED? NO, IT'S, UH, THAT PARKING LOT IS WITHIN, IS ACTUALLY I THINK ALSO WITHIN THE, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT TWO. YEAH. SO IT'S GOT THE WEST END RESTRICTIONS ON ARCHITECTURE OF SIZE. YOU COULD STILL BUILD SOMETHING THERE. YOU COULD BUILD SOMETHING RIGHT NOW ON THAT PARKING LOT. PARKING LOT. WE DON'T HAVE TO GO REAPPLY FOR A ZONING CHANGE. YEAH. THAT AS WELL, RIGHT? WE TRIED TO, I GUESS THAT'S A RISK FACTOR THAT YOUR CLIENT, WE TRIED TO BUY IT. IT WASN'T FOR SALE. OH, . OH, WELL THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THEIR REVENUE TOO. OKAY. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, MURPHY THEN? YES, MA'AM. IT'S JUST AGAIN, MORE CURIOSITY NOW. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. . OKAY. COULD WE THEN, UH, IF ANYBODY, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED TO SAY? UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. OKAY, THEN DO WE HAVE A MOTION GUYS? WELL, I'LL MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE, UH, CAVEAT THAT WE ADD A SUNSET. THAT WOULD BE 10 YEARS FROM, FROM APPROVAL DATE. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND FOR THAT MOTION? THIS IS TODD. I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. OKAY. MOTION BY DAVID AND TODD. JUST A SECOND. OKAY, LET'S DO OUR LITTLE ROLL CALL. VOTE TODD. YOUR VOTE. APPROVED. APPROVED WITH THE SUNSET OF 10 YEARS. OKAY. MURPHY, UH, APPROVED WITH SUNSET OF 10 YEARS. DAVID APPROVED WITH SUNSET OF 10 YEARS. OKAY. AND THE CHAIR APPROVED WITH THE CONDITION OF THE SUNSET DAY. THEY WILL BE FROM CITY COUNCIL, UH, APPROVED FROM, FROM THE DATE. RIGHT. UH, FROM THE DATE THAT FINAL APPROVAL. YOU DON'T WANNA PENALIZE THEM FOR THE TIME BEFORE. SO YEAH. THE TIME IT TAKES TO GET IT TO THE FINAL APPROVAL, IT'S SOME FINAL APPROVAL. I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. I HAVE TO RUN, I'M SUPPOSED TO BE MEETING WITH, UH, CHAD WEST RIGHT NOW. SO, SORRY. . AND SERIOUSLY, OSCAR, JASON DID A FANTASTIC JOB IN THIS SCOTT HELP AND SCOTT DID A GREAT JOB. HE WAS RECUPERATING FROM FROM THE HOSPITAL. THEY'RE APPRECIATE EVERYBODY TO WORK ON THIS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU HAVE A GREAT DAY. I WAS IN THE HOSPITAL WITH THREE SCREENS. OKAY. DO WE HAVE A PRINTOUT THAT WE AND RIGHT IN THE CONDITION, UH, THE COURT YOU REPORT MINUTES. MINUTES RIGHT HERE? YEAH. BE PART OF THE MINUTES. OKAY. WELL, AND WE ALSO NEED TO WRITE THAT CONDITION ON THE APPROVAL OF THOSE. FOR THE CPC. WE HAVE TO RECORD IT. OKAY. UM, THAT CONCLUDES THAT PART OF OUR BUSINESS. WE HAVE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS TO THE MINUTES? NO, MA'AM. NOPE. THEY LOOKED GOOD IN THAT CASE. THE MINUTES STAND APPROVED AS STATED. OKAY. AND IT IS, ARE WE READY FOR ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER CONCERNS? IF NOT, THEN WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 11 THREE. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MURPH. HAPPY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. HAPPY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY. MORNING. HAPPY. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.