* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [*This meeting is joined in progress*] [00:00:02] FOR BLUE CROSS AND BLUE [Board of Adjustments: Panel A on June 18, 2024.] SHIELD OF TEXAS, AND WILL LATER BE JOINED BY, UM, TWO OTHER, UH, MEDICAL DIRECTORS FROM BLUE CROSS OF TEXAS, DOCTORS LANG MA AND ALLEN, WHO WILL RESPECTIVELY DISCUSS, UH, SEXUAL HEALTH TOPICS AND THEN TOPICS RELATED TO MENTAL HEALTH. UH, ANDREW VITALI WITH HEADWAY WILL THEN BRING US HOME BY DISCUSSING THE BENEFITS OF, UH, VIRTUAL MENTAL HEALTH, UH, AND JOY WITH THE, UH, THE WELLNESS COORDINATOR FOR CITY OF DALLAS. WE'LL JUMP IN AT THE END, UH, TO SAY A FEW WORDS. SO, FIRST, I JUST WANNA THANK YOU ALL FOR, FOR JOINING US AND FOR THE PRIVILEGE TO SPEAK WITH THE, UH, THE FOLKS OF THE CITY OF DALLAS TODAY ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT TOPIC. SO, TODAY WE'RE GONNA BE FOCUSING ON HEALTH AND WELLNESS FOR MEN DURING MEN'S HEALTH MONTH. UH, AND I'D LIKE TO START WITH A CAVEAT BY SAYING THAT THIS PRESENTATION IS MEANT TO BE INFORMATIONAL AND NOT INTENDED TO REPRESENT MEDICAL ADVICE. SO, ANY SPECIFIC MEDICAL RECOMMENDATIONS OR ACTIONS SHOULD BE MADE IN THE CONTEXT OF, OF A PHYSICIAN PATIENT RELATIONSHIP. SO, OUR GOAL IN SHARING IS TWOFOLD. FIRST, WE WANNA ARM YOU WITH ADDITIONAL TOOLS AND KNOWLEDGE TO, SO THAT YOU CAN ASK INFORMED QUESTIONS OF YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS. AND THE SECOND IS LIKE IT. WE JUST WANT TO EMPOWER YOU ON YOUR OWN HEALTHCARE JOURNEY. UH, SO THIS TALK IS, IS NOT JUST FOR MEN, IT'S FOR EVERYBODY. UH, FOR ANYBODY THAT WHO HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH A MAN, UH, IT'S KNOWN THAT WOMEN IN A MAN'S LIFE OFTEN HELP DRIVE THAT MEDICAL CARE. SO IF YOU ARE A SPOUSE, A MOTHER, A SISTER, A DAUGHTER, OR A SIGNIFICANT OTHER TO A MAN, THEN THIS TALK IS ALSO FOR YOU. SO, IT IS KNOWN THAT WOMEN ARE ALMOST TWICE AS LIKELY TO SEEK MEDICAL CARE THAN MEN. SO WE WANT TO HELP ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO, TO, TO GATHER AROUND THE MEN IN THEIR LIFE AND HELP, UH, SHEPHERD THEM ALONG THEIR HEALTHCARE JOURNEY AS WELL. SO, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, FIRST, WE'RE GONNA START WITH, UH, MEDICAL, UH, OR PREVENTIVE SCREENINGS. UH, PREVENTIVE SCREENINGS ARE MEASURES THAT ARE TAKEN TO HELP MANAGE AND MAINTAIN OPTIMAL HEALTH. SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT A FEW OF THESE RECOMMENDED SCREENINGS. NEXT SLIDE. SO, ALL THOSE OF THIS LIST IS NOT COMPREHENSIVE. UH, THE SLIDE ULTIMATELY DEMONSTRATES, UH, STANDARD RECOMMENDED SCREENINGS FOR MEN, DEPENDING ON AGE GROUP. UH, THE FREQUENCY OF THESE SCREENINGS WILL DEPEND BEARING ON EACH MEN MAN'S AGE AND OVERALL CONDITION. UH, SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT YOUR DR. MAY, MAY NOT RECOMMEND THEM, UH, EVERY SINGLE YEAR, UH, DEPENDING ON YOUR AGE, ALTHOUGH WE DO ENCOURAGE, UH, YEARLY, UH, PREVENTIVE VISITS, UM, AND THERE ARE SOME, DEPENDING ON THEIR CONDITIONS, WHO THEIR PRIMARY CARE DR. MAY RECOMMEND MORE THAN YEAR, YEARLY VISITS AS WELL. SO, MOVING THROUGH THE LIST FOR AGES 20 AND, UH, 20 UP TO ABOUT 50. UH, SOME RECOMMENDED SCREENINGS INCLUDE, UH, BOTH HEIGHT AND WEIGHT, WHICH ARE USED TO CALCULATE WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS A BODY MASS INDEX. UH, AND THAT CAN, UH, HELP DETERMINE IF SOMEBODY IS OVERWEIGHT OR OBESE OR EVEN UNDERWEIGHT. UH, THEN THERE'S BLOOD PRESSURE, UH, WHICH WE'LL GET INTO IN A MOMENT, UH, AND CHOLESTEROL SCREENING, UH, WHICH WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT LATER. UH, AND SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS CAN BE SCREENED FOR AS WELL. AND DR. LANG ME WILL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE DEEPLY A LITTLE BIT LATER. AND FINALLY, THERE'S DE UH, DEPRESSION. UH, SO THE SCREENING FOR DEPRESSION IS THE SAME FOR MEN AS IT IS FOR WOMEN. SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ALL THAT IF YOU FELT DOWN, SAD OR HOPELESS WITHIN THE PAST TWO WEEKS AND HAVE FELT LITTLE INTEREST OR PLEASURE IN DOING THINGS, THAT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD BE DEPRESSED. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO, UH, TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT BEING SCREENED FOR DEPRESSION. AND SOME OF THESE TOPICS WILL BE DISCUSSED IN THE MENTAL HEALTH SECTION IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL. SO, MOVING ON, UH, RECOMMENDED SCREENING FOR AGE 50 PLUS, UH, INCLUDE PROSTATE SCREENING, AND WE'LL DISCUSS THAT IN A MOMENT AS WELL, ALONG WITH COLON CANCER SCREENING. UH, AND FINALLY, FOR AGES 65 TO 75, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S ALSO A SPECIFIC TEST FOR, UH, MEN WHO, IN THAT AGE GROUP, HAVE SMOKED AT ANY POINT IN TIME, AND THAT'S WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS AN ABDOMINAL AORTIC ANEURYSM SCREENING. SO THE AORTA IS ONE OF THE LARGEST BLOOD VESSELS IN THE BODY. AND FOR MEN THAT HAVE SMOKED, IT'S KNOWN THAT THERE'S AN INCREASED RISK OF THAT PARTICULAR ARTERY BECOMING ABNORMALLY ENLARGED. AND IN SOME CASES, IT CAN BURST. SO, UH, IT'S, IT'S RECOMMENDED THAT FOLKS WHO HAVE SMOKED, UH, HAVE THAT SCREENING WITH AN ULTRASOUND. UH, IT'S, IT'S AN ONLY, ONLY A ONE-TIME TEST. SO, UH, THAT WILL, UH, FOR THOSE FOLKS, UH, THAT FALL INTO THAT, UM, THAT'S DEFINITELY A DISCUSSION FOR YOU AND YOUR [00:05:01] DOCTOR. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO IN THIS PARTICULAR SECTION, WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS SOME OF THE, UH, WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING CANCERS AND SOME OF THE, THE, THE MOST PREVALENT CANCERS, UH, THAT ARE RELEVANT TO MEN. UH, NEXT SLIDE. SO WE'LL START WITH TESTICULAR CANCER. UH, AND SO STUDIES SHOW THAT ABOUT HALF OF THESE CASES OCCUR IN MEN WHO ARE RELATIVELY YOUNG BETWEEN THE AGES OF 20 AND 35. HOWEVER, IT IS KNOWN THAT, UH, THIS CANCER CAN OCCUR ANYWHERE FROM AN INFANT ALL THE WAY TO ELDERLY MEN. AND IT'S BEEN FOUND THAT IT'S MORE COMMON IN CAUCASIAN MEN. BUT THE RATE OF TESTICULAR CANCER HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED OVER TIME, UH, FOR REASONS THAT AREN'T COMPLETELY CLEAR. UH, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMAIN AWARE OF THIS CONDITION. THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT TESTICULAR CANCER IS ONE OF THE MOST CURABLE, UH, CANCERS OUT THERE. IT HAS, UH, IN EXCESS OF 95% CURE RATE. SO ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IN THE UNITED STATES, ABOUT 10,000 MEN ARE DIAGNOSED EVERY YEAR WITH TESTICULAR CANCER. UH, BUT THERE ARE FEWER THAN 500 DEATHS PER YEAR. UH, CONDUCTING SELF EXAMINATIONS MAY BE BENEFICIAL, BUT, UH, UH, DISCUSS THAT WITH YOUR DOCTOR, UH, FOR ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, MOVING ON TO PROSTATE CANCER, PROSTATE CANCER IS BY FAR AND AWAY THE MOST COMMON CANCER, UH, IN MEN, UH, AFTER SKIN CANCER. UH, AND WE'LL TOUCH ON SKIN CANCER IN A MOMENT. UH, MORE THAN 2 MILLION, UH, MEN IN THE UNITED STATES ARE CONSIDERED SURVIVORS OF PROSTATE CANCER, BUT ABOUT ONE IN NINE MEN WILL BE DIAGNOSED DURING THEIR LIFETIME. SO THOSE NUMBERS MAY SOUND HIGH, BUT PROSTATE CANCER IS A VERY TREATABLE CANCER. SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE PROACTIVE IN HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR DOCTOR AROUND, UH, WHETHER OR NOT SCREENING MAY BE RIGHT FOR YOU. UH, SO THE AMERICAN AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY RECOMMENDS THAT MEN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION BY HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THEIR DOCTOR, TAKING EACH, UH, INDIVIDUAL'S UNIQUE SITUATION AND HEALTH CONDITIONS INTO ACCOUNT WHEN HAVING THAT CONVERSATION. SO EVEN THOUGH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROSTATE CANCER SCREENING, YOUR DR. MAY NOT RECOMMEND, UH, THAT YOU GET, HAVE A PROSTATE CANCER SCREEN, EVEN IF YOU ARE IN A CERTAIN AGE GROUP. HOWEVER, GENERALLY SPEAKING, UH, MEN AT AGE 50, UH, BEING OF AVERAGE RISK, MEANING YOU DON'T HAVE A, A STRONG FAMILY HISTORY, UH, THEY, YOU SHOULD BEGIN TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT, UH, SCREENING IS, IS RIGHT FOR YOU. UH, ADDITIONALLY, UH, MEN WHO ARE 45 SHOULD BEGIN TO INQUIRE, UH, ABOUT POTENTIALLY HAVING, UH, SCREENING TESTS DONE, UH, IF YOU HAVE AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER, AND AT AGE 40, IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO'VE BEEN AFFLICTED WITH THE, UH, PROSTATE CANCER. SO, UM, AGAIN, PROSTATE CANCER IS, UH, VERY READILY TREATABLE. AND, UH, SCREENING CAN BE THE APPROPRIATE, UH, NEXT BEST STEP FOR YOU, BUT NOT NECESSARILY. SO, AGAIN, I I'M GONNA REITERATE TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR DOCTOR IS MOST IMPORTANT. NEXT SLIDE. SO, UH, OUR NEXT TOPIC IS COLORECTAL CANCER. UH, SO EXCLUDING SKIN CANCERS, UH, COLORECTAL CANCER IS THE THIRD MOST COMMONLY DIAGNOSED CANCER IN BOTH MEN AND WOMEN IN THE US. UH, THE OVERALL LIFETIME RISK OF DEVELOPING SKIN CANCER OR COLORECTAL CANCER IS ABOUT ONE IN 23. UH, THE RISK IS SLIGHTLY LOWER IN WOMEN THAN MEN. UH, SO COLORECTAL CANCER IS THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF CANCER RELATED DEATH IN THE UNITED STATES FOR BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. UH, IT'S THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH OVERALL WHEN BOTH SEXES ARE COMBINED. SO, OVERALL, UH, AROUND 53,000 DEATHS FROM COLORECTAL CANCER WE'RE REPORTED IN 2020 ALONE. UM, SO ADDITIONALLY, UH, MORE CASES OF COLORECTAL CANCER ARE BEING FOUND IN EARLIER AGES. UH, AND AS A RESULT, THE US PRE PREVENTATIVE SERVICE TASK FORCE, WHICH OVERSEES ALL PREVENTIVE TESTING IN THE COUNTRY, HAS RECOMMENDED A DECREASE IN THE AGE OF, UH, FIRST TESTING, UH, FROM AGE 50 TO AGE 45. AND THIS IS FOR PEOPLE OF AVERAGE RISK, MEANING YOU DON'T HAVE A STRONG FAMILY HISTORY, UH, YOU DON'T HAVE A HISTORY OF PERSONAL HISTORY OF POLYPS, AND YOU DON'T HAVE, UM, UH, A GENETIC CONDITION MAY, WHICH MAY PREDISPOSE YOU TO COLORECTAL CANCER. SO, UM, AGAIN, SOME OF THOSE, UH, [00:10:01] HIGH RISK CONDITIONS DO INCLUDE FAMILY HISTORY, UH, AND A GENETIC CONDITION, BUT ALSO CAN INCLUDE A CONDITION CALLED INFLAMMATORY BOWEL DISEASE, UH, WHICH WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET INTO, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, UH, IS NOT VERY COMMON, BUT IS LIKELY THAT, UH, YOUR DOCTOR WILL HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH YOU IF YOU ARE DIAGNOSED WITH THAT CONDITION. UH, THERE ARE OTHER, UH, LIFESTYLE RELATED, UH, RISK FACTORS, ALTHOUGH THEY, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A, UH, A CAUSE UH, UH, EFFECT. BUT, UH, UH, YOU CAN SEE ON THE SLIDE THAT THERE ARE, UH, A NUMBER OF OTHER RISK FACTORS THAT CAN PREDISPOSE YOU TO, UH, COLORECTAL CANCER. UM, THE, THE SCREENING OF CHOICE, UH, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WAYS THAT IT CAN BE SCREENED. THE, THE GOLD STANDARD IS COLONOSCOPY, UH, BUT THERE ARE OTHER TESTING, UH, ME, UH, METHODS THAT CAN BE PERFORMED, UH, THESE DAYS AS WELL. SO, UH, JUST MAKE SURE YOU'RE HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS AS WELL. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. OKAY. SO I'M NOT GONNA SAY A WHOLE LOT ABOUT SKIN CANCER, BUT SKIN CANCER CAN BE LUMPED INTO TWO BROAD BUCKETS. ONE IS, UH, NON-MELANOMA, SKIN CANCER. AND THEN THE, THE OTHER IS MELANOMA SKIN CANCERS. SO, NON-MELANOMA, SKIN CANCERS ARE FLESH COLORED SKIN CANCERS, WHEREAS MELANOMA SKIN CANCERS ARE THE PIGMENTED CANCERS. UM, SO THEY, UH, SKIN CANCER, INCLUDING ALL, BOTH MELANOMA AND NON-MELANOMA, IS BY FAR AND AWAY THE MOST COMMON CANCER DIAGNOSED, UH, IN THE UNITED STATES. BUT, UH, BECAUSE OF THE EXTREMELY HIGH CURE RATE OF NON-MELANOMA SKIN CANCER, UH, THE OVERALL DEATH RATE DOESN'T EVEN MAKE THE TOP 10, UH, KILLERS OF, UH, MEN OR WOMEN IN THE COUNTRY. UM, THE, THE BIG TAKEAWAY FOR YOU HERE IS THAT THE, THE SINGLE HIGHEST RISK FACTOR FOR DEVELOPING SKIN CANCER IS EXPOSURE TO UV RAYS. SO, MINIMIZING YOUR EXPOSURE THROUGH EITHER AVOIDING SUN AT THE, THE MOST INTENSE TIMES OF THE DAY, BETWEEN 10 AND FOUR, UH, PM GENERALLY SPEAKING, UH, AND USING, UH, PROTECTIVE CLOTHING OR HIGH SPF 30 OR GREATER, UH, SUNSCREEN, UH, THOSE ARE THE, UH, THE BEST WAYS TO, UH, MOVE FORWARD ON THAT NEXT SLIDE. SO, UH, AT THIS POINT, WE'RE GONNA TRANSITION AND TALK ABOUT HEART HEALTH FOR A MOMENT. UM, WE'RE JUST GOING TO BRIEFLY TOUCH ON, UH, THREE RISK FACTORS AND THREE, UH, TYPES OF TESTING THAT YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR EYES ON, BUT ALSO DISCUSS SOME OF THE, UH, THE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF BOTH HEART ATTACK AND STROKE. NEXT SLIDE. SO, AS WE ALLUDED TO EARLIER, THE, THE THREE NUMBERS THAT, UH, YOU WANT TO BE MOST KEENLY AWARE OF INCLUDE BLOOD PRESSURE, CHOLESTEROL LEVELS, AND WAIST SIZE. SO KNOWING YOUR HEART HEALTH NUMBERS CAN BE LIFE SAVINGS, AND THESE THREE NUMBERS ARE, ARE, ARE CRITICAL. SO, BLOOD PRESSURE IS, UH, BROKEN DOWN INTO TWO, INTO TWO NUMBERS, AND YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN THIS. UH, THE TOP NUMBER IS REFERRED TO AS THE SYSTOLIC BLOOD PRESSURE, WHICH IS THE BLOOD PRESSURE WHEN YOUR HEART IS SQUEEZING. AND THEN THERE'S THE DIASTOLIC BLOOD PRESSURE, WHICH IS, UH, THE BLOOD PRESSURE. THAT'S THE BOTTOM NUMBER, AND THAT'S WHEN THE HEART IS RELAXING. AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW BOTH OF THESE NUMBERS TO BE IN A HEALTHY RANGE, UH, AND THAT THOSE, WHILE WE'RE NOT GONNA GET INTO THE DETAILS OF THE BLOOD PRESSURE, UH, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU DISCUSS WITH YOUR DOCTOR, UH, WHAT YOUR NUMBERS ARE AND WHAT THEY REPRESENT. UM, THEY MAY REPRESENT, UH, UH, A READING IN WHICH YOU MAY BE AT RISK FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, OR THEY MAY BE REPRESENTATIVE OF HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, UH, WHICH NEEDS TO BE TREATED. BOTH, UH, THE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE IS CLEARLY A, UH, HAS A STRONG ASSOCIATION WITH HEART DISEASE, AS DOES THE NEXT ONE, CHOLESTEROL. SO HIGH CHOLESTEROL IS ONE OF THE MAJOR RISK FACTORS, AND IN FACT, THE HIGHER YOUR BLOOD CHOLESTEROL LEVEL, THE GREATER YOUR RISK OF, UH, DEVELOPING HEART, HEART DISEASE, AND A HEART ATTACK AS WELL AS STROKE. AND FINALLY, UH, WE'RE GOING TO, TO BRIEFLY DISCUSS WAIST SIZE, WHICH, UM, IT, IT, EVEN IN COMPARISON TO THE, THE BMMI NUMBER THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, WAIST SIZE HAS A STRONGER, UH, CORRELATION WITH HEART DISEASE. SO STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT, UH, WOMEN WITH [00:15:01] A WAIST SIZE OVER 35 INCHES AND MEN WITH A WAIST SIZE OVER 40 INCHES, UH, HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO HAVE AN INCREASED RISK OF CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE, DIABETES, METABOLIC PROBLEMS, AS WELL AS HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND ABNORMAL CHOLESTEROL. NEXT SLIDE. SO, UH, HEART ATTACK WARNING SIGNS. SO WE WANT TO, UH, IN PREFACING YOUR RISK AND, AND SHARING THOSE NUMBERS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, THAT GIVES YOU SOME CLUE AS TO WHERE YOU'RE AT AND WHAT YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF, AND YOUR OVERALL RISK FOR DEVELOPING A HEART ATTACK, WHICH IS BY FAR AND AWAY, UH, HEART DISEASE AND STROKE ARE, UH, THE TWO BIGGEST KILLERS OF MEN IN THIS COUNTRY. SO, NOT ALL HEART ATTACKS BEGIN WITH SUDDEN CRUSHING CHEST PAIN AS SHOWN ON TV OR IN THE MOVIES. UH, IN FACT, ABOUT A THIRD OF PATIENTS WHO HAVE HAD A HEART ATTACK, HAVE HAD ACTUALLY HAD NO CHEST PAIN. SO THE SYMPTOMS CAN VARY FROM PERSON TO PERSON. UH, BUT SOME OF THE SYMPTOMS YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO INCLUDE CHEST PAIN OR DISCOMFORT. UH, UPPER BODY DISCOMFORT, INCLUDING SHOULDER AND CLASSICALLY LEFT SHOULDER PAIN IS, IS SOUGHT TO BE RELATED. UH, SHORTNESS OF BREATH MAY BE YOUR ONLY SYMPTOM. UH, PARTICULARLY FOLKS WITH DIABETES, UH, THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE PAIN WHEN HAVING A HEART ATTACK. UH, OTHER COMMON SYMPTOMS INCLUDE BREAKING OUT IN A COLD SWEAT, UH, FEELING UNUSUALLY TIRED, NAUSEA, VOMITING, AND LIGHTHEADEDNESS. SO IF, UH, YOU'RE FEELING OUT OF THE ORDINARY AND SOME OF THESE SYMPTOMS COME ON SUDDENLY, UH, DON'T WAIT. UH, UH, DO NOT FEEL EMBARRASSED TO CALL FOR HELP. UH, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTION AT ALL, CALL 9 1 1. NEXT SLIDE. SO, JUST KIND OF BRINGING IT, UH, UH, TO A CLOSE HERE FOR THIS SECTION, UH, STROKE, UH, SIMILAR TO, TO A HEART ATTACK, UH, YOU CAN THINK OF A STROKE SIMILARLY, BECAUSE BOTH, UM, ARE CAUSED BY, UH, LOW BLOOD FLOW. SO HEART ATTACK IS CAUSED BY LOW BLOOD FLOW TO THE HEART ARTERIES. AND SIMILARLY, STROKE IS CAUSED BY LOW BLOOD FLOW TO THE, TO THE BRAIN. SO A STROKE, LIKE A HEART ATTACK, IS ALSO A MEDICAL EMERGENCY. UH, IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THESE SYMPTOMS TO SUCH THAT, UH, EMERGENCY SERVICES CAN BE ACTIVATED IMMEDIATELY BY CALLING 9 1 1. UH, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE, AND IT'S, UH, IDEAL, UH, FROM THE TIME OF SYMPTOMS TO THE TIME OF TREATMENT TO BE 60 MINUTES OR UNDER. AND SOME OF THOSE SYMPTOMS CAN INCLUDE, UH, SUDDEN NUMBNESS OF, OR WEAKNESS OF THE FACE, ARM, LEG, UH, CONFUSION, TROUBLE SPEAKING, OR TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING SPEECH, UH, SUDDEN TROUBLE SEEING IN ONE OR BOTH EYES, UH, TROUBLE WALKING, DIZZINESS OR LOSS OF COORDINATION, UH, AND A SUDDEN SEVERE HEADACHE WITHOUT A KNOWN CAUSE. YEAH, PICK UP. OKAY. NEXT SLIDE. AND DO WE WANNA, YEAH, THANK YOU FOR MUTING THAT. UM, SO THIS, THIS SLIDE JUST, UH, SUMMARIZES, UH, SOME OF THE, THE DAILY STEPS TO HEALTH. AND I WOULD JUST, UH, ENCOURAGE Y'ALL TO, AGAIN, HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS WITH YOUR DOCTOR, STAY UPDATED WITH IMMUNIZATIONS. AND WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON IMMUNIZATIONS, BUT THERE ARE A WHOLE HOST OF POTENTIAL IMMUNIZATIONS DEPENDING ON YOUR STAGE AND AGE. UM, SO EATING RIGHT, UH, AVOIDING EXCESS ALCOHOL, OBVIOUSLY, ILLEGAL DRUGS, UH, REMAINING PHYSICALLY ACTIVE, UM, MANAGING YOUR STRESS AND KEEPING THAT, UH, RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR DOCTOR ESTABLISHED. WITH THAT, I WILL GO AHEAD AND PASS THE BATON ON TO DR. LANG MADE TO TALK ABOUT SEXUAL HEALTH. UH, THANK YOU, DR. LUKO. UH, MY NAME IS DR. WILLIAM LANG, MADE. I'M HERE AT BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD OF TEXAS. UH, THANKS Y'ALL FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN, UH, TO JOIN IN YOUR TALK. TODAY, I'M GOING TO BE TALKING TO Y'ALL ABOUT, UM, STDS AND PREVENTION OF STDS AND TREATMENT. WE CAN GO TO, OH, GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. OKAY. SO, MEN'S SEXUAL HEALTH IS A STATE OF WELLBEING. UH, IT ALLOWS AMANDA TO FULLY PARTICIPATE IN AND ENJOY SEXUAL ACTIVITY, AND IT INCLUDES A FULL RANGE OF PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL, INTERPERSONAL, AND SOCIAL FACTORS. UM, OPTIMAL MALE SEXUAL HEALTH INVOLVES, UM, SEXUAL DESIRE, ALSO KNOWN AS LIBIDO AND ERECTILE FUNCTION, THE ABILITY TO SUSTAIN AN ERECTION. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UM, THERE'S QUITE A FEW CAUSES OF POOR SEXUAL HEALTH. THERE ARE, UH, PHYSICAL AND [00:20:01] MEDICAL CONCERNS SUCH AS HEART DISEASE, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, HIGH CHOLESTEROL, DIABETES, LOW TESTOSTERONE, AND IN THE USE OF SOME PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS, THERE ARE PSYCHOLOGICAL FACTORS, UH, LIKE STRESS, UH, EXHAUSTION, FATIGUE, ANXIETY, OR DEPRESSION, AND MAYBE A HISTORY OF SEXUAL TRAUMA. UM, THEIR INTERPERSONAL ISSUES LIKE RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS OR CONCERNS, TRUST AND INTIMACY ISSUES, INCREASED AGE AND POOR COMMUNICATION. AND THEN SOCIAL FACTORS LIKE ALCOHOL USE, SMOKING, UH, RECREATIONAL DRUG USE, OR TOO MUCH OR TOO LITTLE PHYSICAL ACTIVITY. UH, WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, THE, UH, THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL RECOGNIZE TWO TERMS. MANY PEOPLE ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH, UH, STD, BUT THERE ARE TWO TERMS. UM, ONE IS SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTION, AND THAT REFERS TO THE CAUSE OF THE INFECTION THROUGH SEXUAL CONTACT, THE PATHOGEN. AND THE OTHER IS SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE, STD, WHICH REFERS TO THE DISEASE STATE THAT DEVELOPS FROM THAT INFECTION. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, IN TERMS OF POPULATION HEALTH, UM, CHLAMYDIA AND GONORRHEA ARE THE MOST COMMON SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES IN TEXAS, AND SYPHILIS IS ACTUALLY ON THE RISE. UH, DALLAS COUNTY HAS RECORDED MORE THAN 22,000 CASES OF CHLAMYDIA, OVER 10,000 CASES OF GONORRHEA, AND MORE THAN 300 CASES OF SYPHILIS IN, UH, 2022 ALONE. UM, EVERYONE'S AT RISK FIRST STDS, UM, BUT THERE ARE GROUPS THAT AT HIGHER RISK, AND THOSE GROUPS ARE AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HISPANIC RACIAL ETHNIC GROUPS. UM, 50% OF CHLAMYDIA CASES WERE DIAGNOSED IN THOSE GROUPS. THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WERE FEMALE, 58% VERSUS MALE AT 42%, 52% OF GONORRHEA CASES WERE DIAGNOSED IN THOSE GROUPS. THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WERE MALE AT 69% VERSUS FEMALE AT 31%. AND 74% OF THE SYPHILIS CASES WERE DIAGNOSED IN THOSE GROUPS, AND THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WERE MALE AT 74% VERSUS FEMALE AT 26%. UH, DALLAS COUNTY IS ALSO SEEING A RISE IN THE NEW CASES OF HIV. UH, NEW DIAGNOSIS OF HIV HAS INCREASED BY 8%, UH, OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS. IT'S PRIMARILY DIAGNOSED IN AFRICAN AMERICAN, UH, MEN AGE, UH, AGES 25 THROUGH THREE FOUR. THE PREVALENCE OF HIIV HAS INCREASED BY 13% OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS. AND, UH, RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ROUGHLY 6,300 PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV, UH, IN DALLAS COUNTY. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SEE YOUR PROVIDER, THEY MAY ASSESS YOUR RISK. UH, ONE AREA THEY MAY ASSESS IS YOUR BEHAVIORAL RISK, AND THAT IS TO DISCUSS SEXUAL BEHAVIORS THAT CAN PLACE, UH, PEOPLE AT, AT HIGHER RISK FOR, UH, INFECTIONS SUCH AS UNPROTECTED SEX, MULTIPLE SEXUAL PARTNERS, A**L SEX OR DRUG AND ALCOHOL USE BEFORE SEX. THEY MAY ALSO ASSESS YOUR BIOLOGICAL RISK, WHICH WOULD BE TESTING FOR RISK MARKERS FOR STDS AND HIV ACQUISITION OR TRANSMISSION. THOSE FACTORS MAY BE, MAY BE MOLECULAR GENETIC, UM, ANY SORT OF IMMUNOLOGICAL VARIATIONS THAT MAY INCREASE YOUR SUSCEPTIBILITY. AND THEN ALSO SEX AGE AND THE OVERALL HEALTH OR PRESENCE OF ANY GENETIC CONDITIONS PEOPLE MAY HAVE. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. ALSO, WHEN YOU SEE YOUR PROVIDER, THEY MAY, UH, UTILIZE THE FIVE P APPROACH TO OBTAINING A SEXUAL HISTORY. UH, THE FIRST P IS PARTNERS. THEY MAY ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR NUMBER OF PARTNERS OR THE GENDER OR GENDERS OF YOUR PARTNERS. THEY ASK ABOUT YOUR PRACTICES. THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT P. UM, IN TERMS OF SORT OF WHAT SEXUAL CONTACT HAVE YOU HAD OR DO YOU HAVE AND THE TYPE OF SEXUAL INTERCOURSE YOU HAVE. THE NEXT P IS PROTECTION FROM STDS OR STIS. UM, THEY MAY ASK IF YOU AND YOUR PARTNER HAVE DISCUSSED GETTING TESTED OR HAVE BEEN TESTED BEFORE AND CURRENTLY, WHAT SORTS OF, UH, PROTECTION IS BEING USED. UM, THE NEXT P IS PRIOR HISTORY OF STIS. UM, AGAIN, MAY ASK IF YOU OR YOUR PARTNER HAVE EVER BEEN TESTED FOR, UH, STIS OR HIV OR IF YOU'VE EVER, YOU OR YOUR PARTNER'S EVER BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH AN STI IN THE PAST. SOME ADDITIONAL MORE POINTED QUESTIONS MAY BE, IF YOU'VE EVER HAD ANY SORT OF, UH, HISTORY OR PARTNER HAS OF INJECTED DRUG USE THAT DOES PLACE, UH, PATIENTS AT HIGHER RISK FOR HIV AND HEPATITIS. AND THEN GENERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR SEXUAL HEALTH THAT YOU MAY HAVE, THEY MAY ASK YOU ABOUT THAT AS WELL. UH, THE LAST P IS PREGNANCY INTENTION OR FAMILY PLANNING IN TERMS OF DO YOU HAVE, UH, ANY PLANS FOR CHILDREN IN THE FUTURE? AND CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, HOW, UH, UH, HOW IMPORTANT IT'S FOR YOU TO PREVENT PREGNANCY UNTIL THE TIME YOU'RE READY. AND THEN, UM, MAY I ALSO JUST ASK YOU IF YOU HAVE ANY GENERAL QUESTIONS ON HOW TO PREVENT PREGNANCY? UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, IN TERMS OF PRIMARY, PRIMARY PREVENTION METHODS, THERE'S GENERAL PREVENTION, EXCUSE ME, GENERAL PREVENTION WITH CONDOMS, UM, TOPICAL MICROBICIDES OR SPERMICIDES. THOSE CAN COME IN THE FORMS OF GELS, CREAMS, SUPPOSITORIES, LUBRICANTS, OR ANTI, UH, ANTI, UH, RETROVIRAL AGENTS. UM, PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS. UM, THERE ARE STUDIES ON AN ANTIBIOTICS CALLED DOXYCYCLINE. IT'S USED FOR MANY DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT IN TERM, BUT IT CAN BE USED FOR SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED, UM, DISEASES. AND ALSO ANTIRETROVIRALS FOR HIV CAN BE GIVEN, CAN BE GIVEN FOR, FOR PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS. UM, ALSO FOR POST-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS FOR HIV AND [00:25:01] STIS, HIV MEDICATIONS CAN BE TAKEN FOR THREE, FOR THREE DAYS AFTER EXPOSURE. AND SIMILARLY, DOXYCYCLINE FOR, UH, OTHER STDS. THERE ARE HIV SERO ADAPTIVE STRATEGIES, AND SOME PATIENTS WILL MODIFY THEIR SEXUAL BEHAVIORS BASED ON THEIR HIV STATUS. THERE'S ALSO ABSTINENCE AND REDUCTION IN QUANTITY OF SEXUAL PARTNERS, EXCUSE ME. UM, THERE'S ALSO, UM, VACCINATIONS AVAILABLE. UM, THE HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS OR HPV HEPATITIS A VIRUS, HEPATITIS B VIRUS, ARE ALL, UH, SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED. UM, THE HEPATITIS, UH, EXCUSE ME, THE HPV VACCINE IS RECOMMENDED IN MALE AND FEMALE ADOLESCENTS UP TO THE AGE OF 26 YEARS OLD. UH, THE HEPATITIS B VACCINE IS RECOMMENDED FOR ALL UNVACCINATED OR UNINFECTED PEOPLE, UM, WHO ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE WITH MORE THAN ONE PARTNER, OR WHO ARE BEING EVALUATED OR TREATED FOR AN STD. AND THEN THE HEPATITIS A AND B VACCINES ARE RECOMMENDED FOR MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN, PERSONS WHO INJECT DRUGS, PERSONS WITH CHRONIC LIVER DISEASE, AND PEOPLE WITH HIV OR HEPATITIS C INFECTIONS WHO HAVE NOT HAD HEPATITIS A OR B. UH, EXCUSE ME. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO, UH, LASTLY, THE TREATMENT OF OF STDS. SOME ARE CONSIDERED CURABLE. UM, SYPHILIS, GONORRHEA, AND CHLAMYDIA CAN ALL BE TREATED WITH, UM, WITH ANTIBIOTICS. SOME PATIENTS WITH HEPATITIS C CAN BE CONSIDERED CURED WITH DIRECT ACTING ANTIVIRALS. UM, THE ONES THAT ARE NOT CURABLE, BUT MANAGEABLE, UM, ARE THE HERPES VIRUS, UM, ANTIRETROVIRAL, EXCUSE ME, ANTIVIRAL MEDICATIONS ARE GIVEN FOR THE HERPES VIRUS. UM, HEPATITIS B VIRUS ANTIVIRAL MEDICATIONS ARE GIVEN FOR THAT AS WELL, UM, FOR MANAGEMENT. UM, SOME PATIENTS WITH HEPATITIS C ARE ON ANTIVIRALS AS WELL. FOR THE, UH, HUMAN IMMUNO EFFICIENCY VIRUS, WHICH I'VE BEEN CALLING HIV, THAT'S, UH, OFTEN KNOWN AS, UM, ANTIRETROVIRAL MEDICATIONS CAN BE GIVEN. AND FOR THE, UH, HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS, HPV TOPICAL MEDICATIONS CAN BE USED. AND, UM, THE REMOVAL OF ANY SKIN LESIONS CAN BE DONE THROUGH FREEZING BURNING OR SU SURGICAL OR LASER LASER REMOVAL SURGERY. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, ALL IN ALL, MAINTAINING A GOOD MALE SEXUAL HEALTH IS ESSENTIAL FOR BOTH YOU AND YOUR, UH, FOR BOTH YOUR PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL WELLBEING. UH, I WANNA THANK EVERYONE AGAIN FOR HAVING ME, AND, UM, WE'LL TURN THINGS OVER NOW TO DR. ALLEN. THANKS AGAIN. THANK YOU, DR. LANG. MADE, UM, GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY. I AM TOM ALLEN. I'M A MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF BEHAVIORAL HEALTH AT BLUE CROSS AND BLUE SHIELD, AND I'M JOINED TODAY BY ANDREW VITALI, WHO'S A COUNSELOR AT HEADWAY, WHICH IS A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TREATMENT PROGRAM. UM, AND WE ARE GONNA TALK ABOUT MEN'S MENTAL HEALTH. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, IN TERMS OF PREVALENCE, UM, ONE IN FIVE ADULTS IN THE US EXPERIENCES A MENTAL ILLNESS EVERY YEAR. AND THIS IS BOTH MEN, MEN AND WOMEN. SO ABOUT 20% OF THE POPULATION HAS A DIAGNOSABLE MENTAL ILLNESS. UM, SO IT'S PRETTY COMMON, ALTHOUGH BOTH MEN AND WOMEN ARE AFFECTED BY MENTAL ILLNESS. SIMILARLY, IT'S OFTEN OVERLOOKED IN MEN. UM, 6 MILLION MEN ARE AFFECTED BY DEPRESSION IN THE US EVERY YEAR, AND SUICIDE IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST, UH, CAUSES OF DEATH AMONG MEN. UM, HOWEVER, IF WE LOOK AT RATES OF DIAGNOSED DEPRESSION AMONG MEN, IT'S DIAGNOSED ABOUT HALF THE TIME COMPARED TO WOMEN. AND THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT MEN ARE LESS DEPRESSED IN GENERAL, AS WOMEN, IT, IT MEANS THAT MEN'S DEPRESSION MANIFESTS DIFFERENTLY AS IT DOES IN WOMEN. SO, UM, IN MEN, UH, IT CAN BE EXTERNALIZED SORT OF BEHAVIORS LIKE AGGRESSION OR ANGER. AND IN WOMEN, IT CAN BE MORE INTERNALIZED, LIKE, LIKE SADNESS OR, OR GUILT. UM, AND ALSO, MEN ARE LESS LIKELY TO SEEK TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION COMPARED TO WOMEN. UM, OFTEN MEN, AND WE'LL GET TO THIS MORE LATER, SEE DEPRESSION AS A WEAKNESS. AND, UM, AND THIS CAN LEAD TO FEELINGS OF EMBARRASSMENT AND SHAME. UM, AND IT CAN REALLY INTERFERE WITH THEIR ABILITY TO SEEK HELP. SO AS A RESULT, MEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO SUFFER IN SILENCE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, IF WE LOOK AT SOME OF THE, UH, STATISTICS OF PREVALENCE, UM, LOOKING AT, UH, MAJOR DEPRESSIVE DISORDER ON THE RIGHT HERE IN THIS BAR, GRAPH AND SUBSTANCE DISORDER ON THE LEFT, THE, UM, RED, THE ORANGE BAR IS DALLAS, UH, FORT WORTH AREA. THE YELLOW IS, UM, TEXAS IN GENERAL, AND THE BLUE IS UNITED STATES. UM, IF WE LOOK AT THE RIGHT FOR MAJOR DEPRESSION, UM, THE PREVALENCE AMONG ADULTS IN DALLAS COUNTY IS ABOUT 6%, WHICH IS ABOUT ONE OUT OF EVERY 15 INDIVIDUALS. AND THAT'S SIMILAR IN TEXAS, A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN WHAT WE SEE IN THE UNITED STATES. UM, AND THEN ON THE LEFT SIDE, [00:30:01] THE PREVALENCE OF SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS AMONG ADULTS IN DALLAS IS ABOUT 8.2%, WHICH IS ABOUT ONE OUT OF EVERY 12 INDIVIDUALS. LITTLE BIT LESS THAN WHAT WE SEE IN TEXAS AND IN THE UNITED STATES. UM, BUT IT'S SIGNIFICANT WHEN WE LOOK AT, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MEN WITH SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS. UM, SOME RECENT STATISTICS HAVE SHOWN THAT THE RATES OF SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS AMONG MEN IS THREE TIMES THE RATE AMONG WOMEN. SO MEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE A SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER THAN WOMEN. AND IF WE LOOK AT HEROIN, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, MEN HAVE DOUBLED THE RATE OF HEROIN USE COMPARED TO WOMEN. AND DEATH BY OVERDOSE IS THREE, TWO TO THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY AMONG MEN THAN IT IS AMONG WOMEN. AND THIS IS FOR OPIOIDS. UH, NEXT SLIDE. WE BE, THANK YOU, SIR. SO, CURRENTLY, IN TERMS OF, UH, PREVALENCE OF SUICIDE IN TEXAS, UM, THIS, UH, WE LOOK AT THIS BAR GRAPH ON THE LEFT HERE IS SUICIDES BY FIREARM, AND THE LIGHT BLUE IS TEXAS. THE DARKER BLUE IS THE UNITED STATES. WE SEE THAT IN TEXAS, IT'S CLOSE TO ABOUT NINE INDIVIDUALS OUT OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND, UH, DIES OF SUICIDE BY FIREARM. UM, AND IT'S MORE COMMON THAN SUICIDE BY OTHER MEANS. UM, WE, HOW DOES THIS APPLY TO MEN? UM, MEN DIE BY SUICIDE AT A RATE FOUR TIMES HIGHER THAN WOMEN. SO ABOUT THREE OUT OF FOUR SUICIDES IS, UM, COMPLETED BY A MAN. UM, AND, UM, WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE TEXAS HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST SUICIDE RATES. UM, OF ALL THE STATES IN THE US IT'S HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. AND MEN LIVING IN RURAL AREAS OF TEXAS AND RURAL AREAS IN GENERAL, ARE, HAVE A 33% HIGHER RISK OF SUICIDE THAN THOSE IN URBAN AREAS. UM, AND THIS COULD BE DUE TO ISOLATION OR INCREASED ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, FOR EXAMPLE. UM, WE, AS WE KNOW, MEN, WHEN THEY'RE DEPRESSED, THEY DON'T LIKE TO REACH OUT FOR HELP, UM, OFTEN INTERNALIZE AND SUFFER IN SILENCE. AND THEN IF WE ADD, UM, ONTO THIS, THAT MEN OFTEN EXPRESS DEVE DEPRESSION THROUGH HOSTILITY, ANGER, VIOLENCE, UM, INCREASED IMPULSIVITY, INCREASED SUBSTANCE USE. IF WE COMBINE ALL OF THAT WITH THE PRESENCE OF A FIREARM, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY INCREASES ONE'S RISK FOR COMPLETING A SUICIDE. SO YOU HAVE A, AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S USING SUBSTANCES, IMPULSIVE ACCESS TO A FIRE, DEPRESSED, SUICIDAL, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO ACTUALLY CARRY THAT OUT. NEXT SLIDE. UM, AND IN TERMS OF LEADING RISK FACTORS FOR MEN, I MEAN, THE BIGGEST ONES IS, IS MASCULINE STEREOTYPES. WE ALL KNOW IN SOCIETY THAT WE HAVE, THERE ARE CERTAIN CONSTRUCTED BELIEFS ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A MAN. UM, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SHOW EMOTIONS. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE STOIC. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO ASK FOR HELP. ALL THESE STEREOTYPES ARE UNTRUE BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE EMOTIONS, WE ALL NEED HELP. UM, BUT IT CAN REALLY INTERFERE WITH, WITH MEN'S COMFORT IN TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS OR, OR REACHING OUT TO HELP SO THAT THOSE MASCULINE STEREOTYPES CAN, CAN REALLY GET IN THE WAY AT TIMES, UM, OF MEN GETTING HELP. AND THEN TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLES, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, MEN OFTEN SEE THEMSELVES AS, AS PRIMARILY FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR FAMILIES. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY LOSE THEIR JOB AND THEY FEEL THAT THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE SECURITY OF THEIR FAMILY'S AT RISK, THEY'RE AT REALLY HIGH RISK FOR DEPRESSION AND SUICIDE. THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF SHAME AROUND THAT. AND IN FACT, UM, UNEMPLOYED MEN ARE MORE THAN TWICE AS LIKELY TO KILL THEMSELVES AS, UM, EMPLOYED MEN OR UNEMPLOYED WOMEN. SO IT'S A PARTICULAR PHENOMENON, UM, THAT'S HIGHER RISK AMONG MEN. UH, SHAME WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, IF, IF KIND OF THE, HOW THEY SEE THEMSELVES DOESN'T MATCH UP TO THAT EXTERNAL DEFINITION OF, OF, YOU KNOW, THAT KINDA MASCULINE STEREOTYPE, UM, SUPPRESSION OF EMOTIONS, UH, ACTING OUT BEHAVIORS. UM, ANGER FOR IS ONE OF THOSE BEHAVIORS. AND FOR MEN, IT'S ONE OF THE MORE, UM, UH, ACCEPTABLE EMOTIONS TO EXPRESS AT TIMES. OFTEN, UM, MEN USE ANGER TO COVER UP OR MASK, UH, OTHER EMOTIONS THAT ARE DEEPER, THAT ARE UNACCEPTABLE, LIKE DEPRESSION OR ANXIETY. AND IN FACT, UM, ANGER ATTACKS AND AGGRESSION AMONG MEN ARE THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO OCCUR THAN AMONG WOMEN. UM, AND MEN WHO RIGIDLY ADHERE TO THESE SOCIAL DEFINITIONS OF MASCULINITY ARE, UH, ALSO TEND TO COMMIT HIGHER LEVELS OF INTIMATE PARTNER AND, UH, SEXUAL [00:35:01] VIOLENCE TOWARD WOMEN. SO DEFINITELY A HIGHER RISK, UM, FOR MEN WHO ARE DEPRESSED. AND THEN ALSO, AS WE KNOW, SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS, UM, IT INCREASES IMPULSIVITY, UM, BUT ALSO IT IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH HIGHER RISKS OF DEATH DUE TO SUICIDE, BUT ALSO OVERDOSE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THEN FINALLY, LOOKING AT GROUPS THAT ARE HIGH RISK. UM, WE TOUCHED ON THIS BEFORE, BUT THOSE WHO HAVE FINANCIAL CHALLENGES, WHETHER IT'S, UM, BANKRUPTCY OR FORECLOSURE, UH, THAT PUTS MEN AT INCREASED RISK FOR SUICIDE AND DEPRESSION. IN FACT, A QUARTER OF SUICIDES, UH, AMONG MEN ARE ATTRIBUTED TO THE RISING RATES OF UNEMPLOYMENT. AND THIS IS ESPECIALLY THE CASE IN RURAL AND REMOTE AREAS WHERE THERE'S BEEN A DECLINE IN TRADITIONAL INDUSTRIES, UH, HEALTH STATUS, PARTICULARLY CHRONIC HEALTH, HEALTH DISEASE, HEALTH CONDITIONS LIKE HEART DISEASE, UH, PHYSICAL DISABILITIES CAN INCREASE ONE'S RISK. UM, MINORITY GROUPS ARE AT HIGHER RISK. FOR EXAMPLE, BLACK ADULTS, UM, ARE MORE LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, UH, COMPARED TO WHITE ADULTS. AND THIS IS PRIMARILY DUE TO, UM, HISTORICAL TRAUMA DISCRIMINATION. AND ONLY ONE IN THREE BLACK ADULTS WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS ACTUALLY SEEKS HELP. UM, AND THIS IS PRIMARILY DUE TO UNDER IDENTIFY, UNDER IDENTIFICATION OF MENTAL HEALTH, HEALTH ISSUES IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, BECAUSE OF UNCONSCIOUS BIAS AMONG PROVIDERS, UM, UNDER REPORTING OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES BY INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE OF STIGMA, UH, LACK OF ACCESS TO PROVIDERS DUE TO SOCIAL INEQUALITIES, AND ALSO LACK OF TRUST IN THE HEALTHCARE PROFESSION BECAUSE OF HISTORICAL RACISM. UM, WE LOOK AT IDENTITY AS A HIGH RISK GROUP. UM, MEN WHO IDENTIFY AS, AS GAY BISEXUAL, TRANSGENDER ARE ALSO AT HIGH RISKS COMPARED TO THOSE WHO, WHO ARE NOT, UM, LARGELY DUE TO LACK OF SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE OF WHO THEY ARE AND, AND THE RESULTING DISTRESS THAT THEY FEEL. UM, DIVORCE IS A HIGH RISK. UM, OFTEN FOR MEN, WHEN THEY HAVE A DIVORCE, THEY FREQUENTLY LOSE CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN. AND FOR MEN, UM, FAMILIES AND THEIR COWORKERS OFTEN ARE THEIR ONLY SOURCES OF SUPPORT. SO IF YOU LOSE A JOB, YOU LOSE A FAMILY FROM DIVORCE, THAT REALLY SPIKES FEELINGS OF ISOLATION, FEELING ALONE, AND THAT'S A HUGE RISK FACTOR FOR DEPRESSION AND SUICIDALITY. UH, VETERANS ARE ALSO AT HIGHER RISK FOR DEPRESSION. UH, IN FACT, THE RATE IS ABOUT TWO TO FIVE TIMES HIGHER THAN THOSE WHO ARE NOT VETERANS. AND ALSO, RATES OF SUICIDE AMONG VETERANS ARE ABOUT ONE AND A HALF TIMES COMPARED TO THE, THE GENERAL POPULATION. A LOT OF THIS COULD BE DUE TO PTSD OR, OR CHALLENGES, UM, ADJUSTING TO CIVILIAN LIFE. BUT ALSO, UM, VETERANS REPORT PRETTY LOW RATES OF SOCIAL SUPPORT. ABOUT 29% OF VETERANS REPORTED ADEQUATE SOCIAL SUPPORTS, AND THIS CAN LEAD TO SOCIAL ISOLATION AND INCREASED DEPRESSION. AND THEN FINALLY, HIGH RISK JOBS, FIRST RESPONDERS, PEOPLE ON THE FRONT LINES, THEY, THEY EXPERIENCE TRAUMA ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS THAT CAN DEVELOP PTSD AND, AND CERTAINLY INCREASED RISK FOR DEPRESSION AND SUICIDE. AND BEFORE I HAND THIS OVER TO ANDREW, I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF GIVE YOU SORT OF A THUMBNAIL GUIDE ON HOW TO TALK TO MEN ABOUT, UM, MENTAL ILLNESS, HOW TO ASSESS HOW THEY'RE DOING, HOW TO HELP THEM GET INTO TREATMENT. SO, UM, KIND OF ONE GOOD APPROACH IS TO JUST, YOU KNOW, CHECK IN WITH, WITH, UM, THOSE YOU'RE CLOSE TO, ASK 'EM HOW THEY'RE FEELING. YOU KNOW, NON-JUDGMENTALLY. JUST BE CURIOUS. OFTEN MEN MAY NOT WANNA ANSWER OR PUT YOU OFF, BUT ASK AGAIN AT A LATER TIME. UM, LOOK FOR CHANGES IN BEHAVIORS, ESPECIALLY THE ONES WE TALKED ABOUT. OFFER SUPPORT. LISTEN, UH, BE PATIENT. YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY REAFFIRM THAT DEPRESSION IS NOT A WEAKNESS. WE ALL GO THROUGH PERIODS LIKE THAT IN OUR LIVES. SEEKING HELP IS NOT A WEAKNESS. UM, IF YOU'RE CONCERNED THAT THEY'RE SUICIDAL, UM, ASK THEM DIRECTLY. AND, UM, AND ON A PREVIOUS SLIDE, THERE WAS THE NUMBER FOR 9, 8 8, WHICH IS THE, THE CRISIS AND SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE. UM, IF YOU OR SOMEONE YOU LOVE IS AT RISK FOR SUICIDE, OR YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT IMMINENT DANGER, CALL THAT NUMBER, TALK TO A PROFESSIONAL, YOU KNOW, REALLY GET HELP RIGHT AWAY. UM, AND THEN FINALLY, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU THINK THEY NEED HELP, OR IF YOU YOURSELF THINK YOU NEED HELP, CALL YOUR DOCTOR, WHETHER THAT'S A PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR OR A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, AND, AND GET SOME MORE ATTENTION. UM, SO THAT'S IT. UH, I WILL HAND THIS OVER TO, TO ANDREW, WHO WILL TALK MORE ABOUT, UM, MENTAL HEALTH CONDITIONS AND, UM, SOME TREATMENT OPTIONS. [00:40:02] THANK YOU, DR. ALLEN. HI, EVERYONE. I'M, I'M ANDREW. I'M A COUNSELOR AT HEADWAY, WHICH I'LL TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IF, IF YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF IT. UH, AND I'M ALSO GONNA TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT, UH, MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLES CAN PRESENT THEMSELVES. UH, THOSE DIFFERENT STRUGGLES ARE DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, AND STRESS, INJURIES AND ACCIDENTS, SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND ADDICTIVE BEHAVIORS, AND SUICIDE. NOW, WE'VE ALL EXPERIENCED SOME LEVEL OF DEPRESSION AT SOME POINT IN OUR LIFE. UM, YOU MIGHT HAVE WOKE UP ONE DAY, AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO GET OUT OF BED THAN USUAL. UH, THERE'S NOT A SIGN OF MOTIVATION THAT YOU KNOW, TO DO THE THINGS YOU USUALLY DO. THE THINGS THAT USUALLY BRING JOY MIGHT FEEL LIKE A STRUGGLE, OR, OR, LIKE, THEY'RE NOT APPEALING. YOU CAN FEEL IRRITABLE, UH, EMPTY, EVEN WORTHLESS, RIGHT? AND WHAT'S ALSO COMMON IN, IN DEPRESSION IS A CHANGE IN SLEEP PATTERNS. YOU KNOW, THINGS OF FATIGUE, UH, CHANGES IN APPETITE OR WEIGHT, AND ONE THAT'S VERY UNIQUE, WHICH ISN'T OFTEN THOUGHT OF WITH DEPRESSION. THERE COULD BE SOMETIMES UNEXPLAINED PHYSICAL PROBLEMS, MAYBE A HEADACHE OR A STOMACH ACHE THAT, YOU KNOW, DOCTORS GIVE YOU A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH. AND, AND THERE'S NO OTHER REASON FOR IT. THE NEXT MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLE IS, UH, ANXIETY AND STRESS. AND LIKE DEPRESSION. I THINK WE'VE ALL EXPERIENCED ANXIETY AND STRESS AT SOME POINT IN OUR LIFE. NOW, THESE, THESE ARE PRETTY PERVASIVE, UH, FEELINGS MAY HAVE BEEN A TIME WHEN YOU COULDN'T STOP WORRYING ABOUT SOMETHING, RIGHT? UH, YOU WANTED TO CHANGE THE THING YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT, BUT YOU JUST COULDN'T. YOU FEEL TIGHT IN YOUR BODY AND TENSE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, TRUCK IS ON YOUR CHEST, YOU FEEL TIGHT IN YOUR CHEST, AND YOU'RE NOT SURE WHY YOU CAN EVEN FEEL LIGHTHEADED, RIGHT? UH, AND SWEAT, UH, THOSE ARE SYMPTOMS OF ANXIETY AND STRESS. NOW, THESE AREN'T GREAT THINGS TO FEEL, AND WE WANT THEM TO GO AWAY, RIGHT? SO, UH, WHEN WE DO EXPERIENCE THESE THINGS, WE CAN SOMETIMES, UM, THINK OF WAYS TO SELF-SOOTHE OR SELF-MEDICATE. UM, AND SOME OF THOSE WAYS TO SELF-SOOTHE, UH, CAN BE SUBSTANCES, ALCOHOL, DRUGS, ADDICTIVE BEHAVIORS, RIGHT? UM, EATING TOO MUCH TO COPE, SHOPPING TOO MUCH TO COPE, GAMBLING. COMBINE THESE THREE THINGS, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE NOT SEEKING HELP, YOU'RE FEELING DEPRESSED, YOU'RE FEELING ANXIOUS, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE USING DRUGS AND ALCOHOL TO SELF-MEDICATE OPENS THE DOOR FOR INJURIES AND ACCIDENTS. YOU'RE AT WORK, YOU'RE DISTRACTED, YOU HURT YOURSELF, RIGHT? AS AN EXAMPLE. THEN, TO GO BACK TO DR. ALLEN'S POINT, FOR A LOT OF MEN, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE PRIDE IN PROVIDING FOR YOUR FAMILY. SUDDENLY YOU CAN'T DO THAT. NOW, YOU'RE REALLY IN THE HOLE, SO TO SPEAK. AND THEN, UH, IN THE MOST TRAGIC CASES, YOU KNOW, MOST DEVASTATING CASES, UH, UH, RESULT OF MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLES CAN BE, UH, SUICIDE. A WAY TO GET AHEAD OF THESE THINGS, RIGHT, OR OF COURSE, ADDRESS THEM AS THEY'RE HAPPENING, IS TO GET HELP. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S RIGHT THERE. UM, HEADWAY IS ONE OF THE WAYS TO GET THAT HELP. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANT YOU TO TAKE WITH YOU IS THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO BE IN CRISIS TO DO THERAPY. IT CAN BE VERY HELPFUL AT ANY POINT. AND HONESTLY, UH, I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE AS WELL. JUST FEELS GOOD, FEELS GOOD TO GET THINGS OFF YOUR CHEST. FEELS GOOD TO HEAR THINGS SAID BACK TO YOU OBJECTIVELY. IT'S JUST GOOD FOR YOU. HISTORICALLY, GETTING MENTAL HEALTH CARE, SEEING A THERAPIST, IT WAS A LITTLE DIFFICULT, A LITTLE OBSCURE, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST OR HOW TO DO IT RIGHT? NOW, YOU CAN SIMPLY GO ON TO HEADWAY HEADWAY.CO. UH, CO IT'S EVEN A LITTLE, UH, BARCODE HERE THAT YOU CAN SCAN. UM, YOU'LL SEE TONS OF PROVIDERS THAT YOU CAN CHOOSE FROM. UH, READ THEIR BIOS, PICK ONE THAT YOU LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S EASY TO GET A GOOD FIT. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THESE THERAPISTS, UH, IN PERSON, WHICH IS MORE TRADITIONAL. OR YOU CAN EVEN DO IT FROM YOUR LAPTOP. IF YOU WANNA STAY IN YOUR BEDROOM, YOUR BUSY PERSON, AND, UH, YOU'D LIKE TO DO THERAPY FROM HOME, [00:45:01] YOU CAN DO IT VIRTUALLY. AND ONE LAST POINT IS, THERAPISTS CAN ALSO HELP CONNECT YOU TO OTHER PROVIDERS. YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU'RE STRUGGLING WITH SOME OTHER THINGS THAT THE OTHER DOCTORS ON THIS CALL TODAY TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A A THERAPIST CAN, CAN HELP CONNECT YOU TO A PROVIDER, UH, THAT, THAT CAN HELP TREAT THAT, THAT DISORDER OR, OR THAT ILLNESS. SO, UH, THAT'S IT FOR ME, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CITY OF DALLAS FOR, FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, ANDREW. AND THANK YOU TO ALL OF OUR FANTASTIC PRESENTERS THAT WE'RE ON TODAY. UM, AND ALSO, AGAIN, REGINALD, WE APPRECIATE YOU AND WE THANK YOU. WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THIS OUT TODAY? I SURELY WOULD. I JUST, AGAIN, I WANT TO FIRST OF ALL, THANK EVERYONE. I WANNA THANK LAURA FOR LAURA WOLF, UM, FROM BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER. SHE'S BEEN ABSOLUTELY AMAZING TO WORK WITH CITY OF DALLAS FOLKS. UM, SHE IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE FROM BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD ON OUR PARTICULAR MEDICAL ACCOUNT GUYS. UM, SO KEEP THAT IN MIND. UH, AS WE, AS WE CONTINUE, WE, I'M GOING TO ALSO THANK, UM, DR. LESKO, DR. ALLEN, UM, LAURA, HELP ME OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT WITH THE, WITH THE OTHER DOCTOR, DR. WILLIAMS, DR. LANG LANG LANGMAID. YES, DR. LANGMAID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR, UM, FOR YOUR PART ON SEXUAL HEALTH, FOR JUST JUMPING IN HERE AT THE LAST MOMENT WITH THAT. UM, AND AGAIN, TO ANDREW VITALI AND TO EVERY, ALL OF OUR DISTINGUISHED GUESTS THAT WERE A PART OF THIS FORUM TODAY, I THINK IF A LOT OF THIS INFORMATION IS, ARE THINGS THAT WE DON'T THINK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE DEMOGRAPHICS AS RELATED TO, UM, UH, CITY OF DALLAS PERSONS IN THE CITY OF DALLAS AND IN THE COUNTY OF DALLAS, I THINK THAT WAS VERY, UH, ALL OF THAT WAS VERY, VERY INSTRUMENTAL, UM, INFORMATION FOR US. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR DISTINGUISHED GUESTS FOR THAT AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU GUYS IN THE NEAR FUTURE. THANK YOU TO ALL OF THE MEN, MEN, ALL OF THE MEN AT CITY OF DALLAS. GIVE YOURSELVES A HAND THANK YOU TO ALL THE MEN WHO JOINED TODAY, AND THANK YOU TO ALL OF THE, THE WOMEN WHO ARE ON THE CALL AS WELL, GAINING THIS INFORMATION FOR THEIR SPOUSES AND PARTNERS, AND, UH, ALL OF THOSE, UM, THAT HAVE BEEN A PART OF THIS WHOLE EFFORT. WE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE IT. I HOPE YOU GUYS TOOK SOMETHING AWAY THAT WILL ENCOURAGE YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE GETTING YOUR PHYSICALS. YOU, AS YOU GUYS KNOW, WE HAVE, UM, A WELLNESS INCENTIVE. I DON'T WANT TO TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT THAT, BUT ON THIS PARTICULAR CALL, BUT I DO WANT YOU GUYS TO, UM, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE WELLNESS INCENTIVE IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY, AND DO THE NECESSARY STEPS THAT YOU'RE SEEING ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS ARE COMING OUT, UH, OVER AND OVER AGAIN UP UNTIL THE LAST DAY, WHICH IS AUGUST 31ST. SO BE MINDFUL OF THAT, GET THAT PHYSICAL IN, GET THOSE, GET THOSE NECESSARY HEALTH ASSESSMENTS IN, UM, AND GO TO YOUR PHYSICIAN FOR ANY OF THESE, UM, OF YOUR HEALTH NEEDS OR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH NEEDS. AND, UM, JUST TAKE CARE OF THIS KIND OF THING. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. I HAVE A, UM, I HAVE PEOPLE IN MY LIFE WHO HAVE PASSED AWAY. I HAD A COUSIN WHO WAS AROUND MY AGE, AND HE DIED AT 49, HAD HAD NOT HAD A PHYSICAL, UM, SINCE HE WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND PLAYED FOOTBALL. SO HE LITERALLY, UH, HIS WIFE MADE HIM GO, UM, TO GET A PHYSICAL AGAIN THAT, THAT HELP FROM WOMEN. UM, WIFE MADE HIM GO GET A PHYSICAL, CALLED HIM BACK VERY QUICKLY AND TOLD HIM LIKE A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER THAT HE DID HAVE, UM, COLON CANCER. AND, UM, WITHIN ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS, MY COUSIN WAS GONE. SO THIS IS VERY, VERY, UH, IMPORTANT TO ME. THE MEN'S HEALTH AND, UH, MEN'S MENTAL HEALTH IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO ME, AND I HOPE AS IMPORTANT TO YOU. I ALSO WANT TO SAY TO EVERYONE THAT PARTICIPATED HERE TODAY THAT, UH, IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH HEADWAY, UM, LET ME KNOW THIS, ANDREW, BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY GET OFF OF HERE. THE HEADWAY, UM, IS, I KNOW THAT YOU, YOU EXPLAINED THAT HEADWAY IS ACTUALLY FREE. UM, IS THE FREE SERVICE FOR, FOR THERAPY, UM, SERVICES FOR, UM, FOR PERSONS WHO HAVE, IS IT FOR PERSONS WHO HAVE THE, [00:50:01] UH, MEDICAL PLAN AT, UM, IS DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE MEDICAL PLAN FOR THAT OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT IS AVAILABLE TO ANYONE THAT IS AN EMPLOYEE? SO, UM, THERE ARE FREE RESOURCES THAT YOU CAN CALL LIKE, UH MM-HMM, SUICIDE HOTLINE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, ABSOLUTELY HEAD HEADWAY IS, IS A FREE SERVICE, UH, WHERE YOU CAN LOOK FOR THERAPISTS, BUT TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL, YOU'LL PAY THOSE THERAPISTS TO COPAY YOU IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. I APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. SO THIS IS HOW YOU ACTUALLY FIND A PARTICULAR THERAPIST THAT MAKES, THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE, GUY. OKAY. AND, UM, IF YOU WOULD, UM, ANDREW, COULD YOU, IN THE CHAT, WOULD YOU JUST, COULD YOU PUT THOSE RESOURCE CONTACT INFORMATION IN THE, IN THE CHAT SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT AVAILABLE TO US FOR HEADWAY? SURE. AT SOME POINT. UM, AND IT'LL BE EVEN AFTER THE CALL, THEY CAN STILL GO BACK AND ACCESS THAT AS WELL. ALRIGHT. ALL RIGHT. IF THERE, I SEE THAT BRACY GOODWIN HAS A QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR A COMMENT, SIR? YES. THANK YOU. REGINALD BRACY GOODWIN WITH OFFICE OF RISK MANAGEMENT, CITY OF DALLAS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF THIS POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WAS AVAILABLE, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT WE CAN DOWNLOAD IT ALL. I'M ALSO A CHAPLAIN AND LOCAL, MY LOCAL CHURCH TOO. WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL LOCKER ROOM DISCUSSION WITH THE MEN, AND I WOULD LOVE TO GO AHEAD AND PRESENT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION. OKAY. AWESOME. LET ME ASK, UH, LAURA, IF YOU WOULD, COULD YOU CLARIFY THAT FOR US AT THIS POINT? CERTAINLY, UNFORTUNATELY, DUE TO UH, VARYING REASONS, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SHARE THE SLIDE DECK. AND I, I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. UM, BUT IF YOU WANT TO AN REGINALD, IF YOU WANNA MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOMEHOW WE CAN TALK TOGETHER OFFLINE WITH BRACING, SEE OF ANY POSSIBLE OPTIONS. OKAY. CERTAINLY, UM, CERTAINLY BRACY, WE WILL, UH, I'LL DEFINITELY REACH TO YOU AND I'LL, AND I'LL REACH TO LAURA AND WE'LL TRY TO GET YOU AS MUCH OF THE INFORMATION THAT WAS, THAT WAS INCLUDED WITH THIS. I, I DID NOT KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THOSE, IF THERE WERE COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO LAURA DID EXPLAIN THAT, BUT, UM, OKAY. WE WILL DEFINITELY REACH TO YOU SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF YOUR ASK. WE WILL DEFINITELY REACH TO YOU ABOUT, UM, GETTING SOME OF THAT INFORMATION OVER TO YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, REGINA. APPRECIATE IT. YOU'RE WELCOME, SIR. I, I WILL, I WILL DROP THE RESOURCES THAT THEY HAD THAT THE DOCTORS PROVIDED. I'LL PUT THAT IN THE CHAT ALSO THE RESOURCE PAGE. ALL RIGHT. GOT IT, LAURA? YEP. GOT IT. THANK YOU, LAURA. YOU ARE WELCOME. THANK YOU. OKAY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AGAIN, THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS I WANTED TO ASK? ONE QUESTION OF DR. LESKO, IF I CAN. REALLY BRIEFLY, I WANTED TO ASK, UM, DR. LESKO, WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS OR WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT TEMPORARY OR PROLONGED USE OF WEIGHT LOSS? UM, THOSE DIABETIC WEIGHT LOSS MEDS, UM, YOU KNOW, YOUR MANJARO, YOUR WEGOVY, SOME OF THOSE OTHERS THAT ARE OUT THERE. WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD OPTION FOR MEN WHO DO HAVE, UH, WHO DO HAVE EXCESS WEIGHT AROUND THE WAIST AND THAT SORT OF THING TO DROP WEIGHT? HEY, REGINALD. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT HEALTH PLANS HAVE DIFFERENT SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS, OKAY, UH, AROUND, UH, THESE TYPES OF DRUGS FOR THAT MM-HMM, INDICATION. MM-HMM . AND I DO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MANY CARRIERS DON'T ACTUALLY COVER IT FOR THAT SPECIFIC INDICATION. NOW, THERE ARE OTHER REASONS THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE USED, UH, THAT, UH, THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO, UH, OBESITY. MM-HMM, , UH, OR BEING OVERWEIGHT. SO, UH, I THINK ULTIMATELY THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT, UH, THERE REALLY ISN'T A WHOLE LOT OF, UH, GOOD STRONG [01:00:26] APPROVALS [01:00:26] OF A VARIANCE, SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR REVERSAL OF A BUILDING. ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL REQUIRES 75% OR FOUR OF OUR FIVE MEMBERS AFFIRMATIVE VOTES. SO A DECISION TO GRANT REQUIRES FOUR AFFIRMATIVE VOTES, NOT THREE, BUT FOUR. THAT IS BY STATE LAW. ALL MOTIONS OTHERWISE ARE JUST AS SIMPLE A MAJORITY VOTE. LETTERS OF THE BOARD'S ACTION TODAY WILL BE MAILED TO THE APPLICANT BY OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR SHORTLY AFTER TODAY'S HEARING AND WILL BECOME PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD. ANYONE DESIRING TO SPEAK TODAY MUST REGISTER IN ADVANCE WITH OUR BOARD SECRETARY. SO IF THERE'S ANYONE HERE PRESENT IN THE ROOM THAT WANTS TO SPEAK ON EITHER FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY OR ON A SPECIFIC CASE, YOU NEED TO HAVE FILLED OUT A BLUE SHEET OF PAPER. LIKE THIS GENTLEMAN RIGHT HERE IS FILL OUT THE BLUE SHEET OF PAPER AND GIVE IT TO OUR BOARD SECRETARY. SO ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK, I'M GONNA SAY AGAIN, PLEASE FILL OUT THE BLUE SHEET OF PAPER AND GIVE IT TO THE BOARD SECRETARY, I'M GONNA PAUSE FOR A MOMENT SO THAT THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN DO THAT. EACH REGISTERED SPEAKER WILL BE, UH, ABLE TO SPEAK DURING OUR PUBLIC TESTIMONY, WHICH IS FIRST, AND THAT'S FOR THREE MINUTES. OR WHEN THERE ARE SPECIFIC CASES CALLED DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH IS A MAXIMUM FIVE MINUTES, I GIVE PLUS OR MINUS MINUTES TO BE FAIR TO EVERYONE INVOLVED, THE APPLICANT, AS WELL AS SUPPORT, AS WELL AS OPPOSITION. ALL REGISTERED ONLINE SPEAKERS MUST BE PRESENT ON THE VIDEO TO ADDRESS THE BOARD. NO TELECONFERENCING WILL BE ALLOWED VIA WEBEX. ALL COMMENTS ARE TO BE DIRECTED TO MYSELF AS THE PRESIDING OFFICER WHO MAY MODIFY SPEAKING TIMES AS NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN ORDER. SO WE'RE GONNA WAIT A MOMENT TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE FILLS OUT THEIR BLUE SHEETS. I'LL SAY ONE MORE TIME. ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK TODAY, EITHER AT PUBLIC TESTIMONY OR FOR A SPECIFIC CASE NEEDS TO FILL OUT A BLUE SHEET OF PAPER AND GIVE IT TO OUR BOARD SECRETARY. ALRIGHT, WE HAD OUR BRIEF, OUR STAFF BRIEFING THIS MORNING AT 10:00 AM WE'VE STARTED OUR PUBLIC HEARING. THE FIRST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS PUBLIC TESTIMONY. MS. BOARD SECRETARY, DO WE HAVE ANYONE REGISTERED FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY? WE HAVE NO REGISTERED SPEAKERS FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. THANK YOU. NO, NO PUBLIC TESTIMONY SPEAKERS. THANK YOU. FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS OUR MISCELLANEOUS DOCKET. AND THE MISCELLANEOUS DOCKET IS OUR MEETING MINUTES FROM MAY 21ST, 2024. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MS. DAVIS, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FROM MAY 21ST. MAY 21ST, 2024. IT'S BEEN MOVED. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED. MOVED BY MS. DAVIS, SECONDED BY MS. HAYDEN TO APPROVE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PANEL. A MEETING MINUTES FROM MAY 21ST, 2024. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION HEARING? NO DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE AYE. THOSE OPPOSED A MEETING MINUTES ARE APPROVED AS PRESENTED. THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS WHAT'S CALLED OUR UNCONTESTED, UH, UNCONTESTED, UH, UH, DOCKET. UH, THE BOARD, UM, THIS MORNING IN OUR BRIEFING REVIEWED SIX CASES AND WE DECIDED TO KEEP ONE CASE ON THE UNCONTESTED DOCKET IN THE CA WHEN THERE IS A CASE LEFT ON THE UNCONTESTED DOCKET, UM, THE PUBLIC, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR THE APPLICANT TO SPEAK. THERE WAS ONE CASE THAT WAS LEFT ON THE UNCONTESTED DOCKET AND THAT IS BDA 2 3 4 0 7 8 AT 8 3 3 4 PLAINVIEW DRIVE. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MS. HAYDEN, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT GRANT THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS LISTED ON THE UNCONTESTED DOCKET BECAUSE IT APPEARS FROM OUR EVALUATION OF THE PROPERTY AND ALL RELEVANT EVIDENCE THAT THE APPLICATION SATISFY ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AND ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE CODE AS APPLICABLE TO WIT BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 8 APPLICATION OF ANO MEDO FOR A VARIANCE TO THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED LOT COVERAGE REGULATIONS IN THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE IS GRANTED SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITION. COMPLIANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT, RECENT VERSION OF ALL SUBMITTED PLANS IS REQUIRED IN THE CASE OF BDA 2 3 4 0 7 8. A MOTION BY MS. HAYDEN WAS MADE TO APPROVE. UH, IS THERE [01:05:01] A SECOND? SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. NARY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MS. HAYDEN? I I BELIEVE THAT, UM, THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS, THIS PROPERTY HAVE SUCH A SMALL SETBACK AND ONLY I THINK 10%, UH, ALLOWABLE LOT COVERAGE, WHICH I THINK WOULD MAKE THIS, THIS PROPERTY, UH, OTHERWISE UNDEVELOPABLE. SO, UM, THAT'S WHY I VOTED IN FAVOR OF THIS VARIANCE REQUEST. MR. NARY. I AGREE. NOTHING FURTHER TO ADD. THANK YOU. NO OTHER DISCUSSION. THE BOARD SECRETARY WILL CALL THE VOTE. MR. N AYE. MR. HAITZ? AYE. MS. DAVIS? AYE. MS. HAYDEN AYE. MR. CHAIR? AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES 5 2 0 IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 8 AT 8 3 3 4 PLAINVIEW DRIVE. THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY PROVES THE REQUEST. UM, UH, THE REQUEST FOR THE VARI FOR THE VARIANCE. YOU'LL GET A LETTER FROM THE, THE OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT CASE ON THE DOCKET TODAY IS BDA 2 2 4 DASH 0 7 1 BDA 2 24 DASH 0 7 1 IS THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE COME FORWARD. THIS IS TWO THREE, UH, 6 0 7 WEST DAVIS STREET. OKAY, HOLD BEFORE YOU PROCEED. ONE SECOND. UM, MS. BOARD SECRETARY, WHAT UH, HOW MANY SPEAKERS DO WE HAVE FOR AND AGAINST ON 2 2 4 0 7 1? I HAVE THE APPLICANT AS UH, UM, I HAVE AN APPLICANT AND THEN I HAVE ONE OPPOSITION. OKAY, THANK YOU. ONE SECOND. ALRIGHT SIR, OUR RULES OR PROCEDURE ARE THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU'RE GIVEN FIVE MINUTES PLUS FIVE MINUTES, UM, TO PRESENT YOUR CASE. I WILL ALLOW, UH, TIME FOR THAT FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE YOUR, WHATEVER TIME I GIVE YOU, I WILL GIVE WHOEVER'S SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION. YOU ALSO HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME BACK AND GIVE AN ADDITIONAL FIVE MINUTE REBUTTAL AFTER, UH, THE ANYONE SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION. SO YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES PLUS OR MINUS, THEN I WILL ENTERTAIN THE DISCUSSION, THEN THERE'LL BE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD AND THEN, UH, THE PERSON SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION WILL SPEAK. THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS OR NOT. AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO COME BACK AND SPEAK. OKAY. OUR BOARD SECRETARY WILL SWEAR YOU IN. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS BEFORE PROCEEDING AND YOU NEED TO BE RIGHT CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE SO I COULD GO AHEAD AND SPEAK AGAIN, RIGHT? SAY HELLO. NO. TURN THE MICROPHONE ON. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? THERE YOU GO. NOW WE CAN HEAR YOU. SO IF YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ONE MORE TIME. SHOULD HASHEM 8 0 5 BHA ROAD, SOUTHLAKE, TEXAS 7 6 0 9 2. EXCELLENT. THANK YOU SIR. PLEASE PROCEED. I HAVE A PIECE OF PROPERTY IN, UH, OAKLEY. UH, THE ADDRESS WAS SIX 19 WEST DAVIS STREET, DALLAS, TEXAS, 7 5 2 0 8. UH, THAT WAS A SMALL LITTLE, UH, PLOT IN THERE. SO WE REPLIED IT AND THEY GIVE ME THE NEW ADDRESS. NEW ADDRESS IS SIX OH UH, SEVEN OTE STREET RIGHT NOW. UH, I'M TRYING TO BUILD UP A, UH, ABOUT 3000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. I HAVE A GREEN SPOT THERE, UH, CLOSE TO UH, CEDAR HILL AVENUE AND, UH, FAULKNER STREET, THAT CORNER. UH, I HAVE ISSUE IN THERE. THE CITY DEVELOPED A NICE, BEAUTIFUL PATHWAY IN, UH, WEST DAVIS SIDE. SO THEY PRETTY MUCH, UH, CONCRETED EVERY WALKWAY, EVERYTHING THERE. THEY MAKE IT NICE AND BEAUTIFUL AND ALSO THE OTHER SIDE. SO I'M BUILDING THE PROPERTY THERE. I HAVE NO PLACE TO PUT THE TREES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, SO I NEED THE VERY HANDS FOR THAT, UH, TO SUBSIDIZE THE, THE GREENISH. WE HAVE A LOT OF SHARP, UH, IF YOU DO THE FAULKNER STREET, WE PUT A LOT OF SHARP THERE. AND ALSO WEST DAVID SIDE, WE PUT A LOT OF SHARP THERE TOO. AND LITERALLY I HAVE NO PLACE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE TO PUT SOME TREES OR ANYTHING ELSE, WHATEVER AHEAD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT FROM THE BOARD, MS. HAYDEN. SO, UM, SINCE THIS IS A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR LANDSCAPING, UM, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I HAD EARLIER IN THE BRIEFING IS IT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, SO OH YEAH. SPECIAL EXCEPTION. UM, [01:10:01] IS THAT IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SEE WHAT THE LANDSCAPING PLAN ACTUALLY LOOKED LIKE. SO IS THERE A LANDSCAPING PLAN? WHAT WE, WHAT WE HAD, THE DRAWING WE HAVE WAS, WAS IT WAS DIFFICULT TO SEE KIND OF WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR AS A VARIANT OR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, AND WHERE YOU'RE PROPOSING ANY SORT OF LANDSCAPING OR ANYTHING TO SORT OF MITIGATE THAT. SURE. I HAVE THIS PAGE WITH ME RIGHT HERE, . I CAN GIVE IT TO YOU ALL. LOOK, YOU CAN GIVE IT TO OUR BOARD SECRETARY AND SHE WILL KEEP ONE AND THEN GIVE US COPIES. HOPEFULLY YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR HAS A QUESTION. YEAH. SO AS, AS I WAS STATING DURING THE BRIEFING, WE ACTUALLY HAVE THE LARGE SCALE. IT'S EVEN LARGER THAN THAT OF THE PROPOSED LANDSCAPE PLAN. WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE EIGHT AND A HALF BY 11. OKAY. SO, UM, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THE LARGER ONE BETTER THAN THIS, THIS . UH, YEAH. WELL, WE'LL TAKE WHAT WE'LL GLADLY TAKE WHAT THE APPLICANT. THANK YOU. WE'LL GLADLY TAKE WHAT THE APPLICANT IS PROVIDING, UH, AND THEN DECIDE BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE. SO IF YOU WOULD GIVE US A MOMENT TO DIGEST THIS. SURE, SURE. PLEASE. AND MARY, YOU'RE GOOD. YOU'RE GONNA KEEP ONE FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO MS. HAYDEN, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. UM, AFTER WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO ABSORB THIS, UM, I, I'M ACTUALLY, IF YOU ALLOW ME, CAN I ASK MR. IRWIN TO DIGEST THIS AND TO HELP US ZERO IN ON WHAT WE SHOULD LOOK AT VERSUS NOT? THE DISCUSSION THIS MORNING AT THE BRIEFING WAS CONFUSION ABOUT, UH, WHAT IS REQUIRED VERSUS WHAT IS THERE VERSUS WHAT IS PROPOSED. THANK YOU. UH, YES. THIS, THIS IS THE PLAN CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. MY APOLOGIES. NO, NO, YOU'RE GOOD. THIS IS THE PLAN THAT I HAD SEEN AND, UH, RECOMMENDED TO THE BOARD. UH, THE PLAN IDENTIFIES THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE DONE ALONG, UH, DAVIS STREET OR THE CITY OF DALLAS IMPROVEMENTS. THE FOUR ACRE SIDE IDENTIFIES, UH, NEW SHRUBS ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND ALSO ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. UM, IT IDENTIFIES AN EXISTING LANDSCAPING THAT WAS THERE THAT WAS APPROVED UNDER THE ORIGINAL BOARD CASE IN 98. OKAY. MR. IRWIN, WHAT I NEED FOR YOU TO DO IS TAKE US INTO WHAT THE FEATURES ON THIS PLAN SO WE CAN SEE. 'CAUSE I SEE LINES, I SEE HASH MARKS, I SEE ARROWS. I WANT YOU TO TAKE US TO THE LANDSCAPING. OKAY. SO START, LET'S START ON FOUR ACRE ON THE NORTH SIDE. THANK YOU. THIS IS WHAT I, I WOULD REQUEST OKAY. WHERE THERE'S RESIDENTIAL? YES. UH, SO EACH OF THOSE ARE LOT RESIDENTIAL LOTS, CORRECT? CORRECT. AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE? CORRECT. OKAY. SO WHEN YOU, IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THAT NORTH LINE, THE ORIGINAL BUILDING, EXISTING ONE STORY BRICK BUILDING THERE IS RIGHT UP ALONG THE PROPERTY BOUNDARY. GOTCHA. THAT IN ITSELF WOULD PREVENT A STREET BUFFER ZONE ALONG THAT PORTION OF THE PROPERTY. THE, ALSO THE SECTION WHERE WE HAVE EXISTING TREES IN THAT MIDDLE ISLAND NEXT TO THE GAS PUMPS WHERE IT SAYS EXISTING 10 INCH ELM, UH, CORRECT. OKAY. AND EXISTING 12 INCH ELM AND CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO THOSE TREES ARE IDENTIFIED AND STILL LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY. OKAY. UH, AS YOU GO EAST, THERE'S THE GRASS FIELD WHERE THE PROPOSED ONE STORY BUILDING IS GOING TO BE. YES. SO THAT GRASS FIELD IS CURRENTLY THERE. IT WILL BE REPLACED WITH A LARGE BUILDING ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THAT. THERE'LL BE A ROW OF SHRUBS. IS THAT WHAT THOSE LITTLE X'S ARE? THAT'S WHAT THOSE LITTLE X'S ARE, THE CIRCLES WITH THE X'S IN THEM. UH, WHEN YOU LOOK TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING, SHRUB MEANS WHAT? A FOOT OFF THE GROUND, TWO FEET OFF THE GROUND? IT SHOULD BE, WE HAVE 'EM IDENTIFIED A FIVE GALLON PLANT MINIMUM, BUT 36 INCH HEIGHT. SO OKAY. THREE FEET COULD BE THREE FEET HEIGHT. OKAY. KEEP GOING. YOU'RE THIS THREE FEET. IS THIS HELPFUL GUYS? OKAY. SO KEEP GOING MR. IMAN. OKAY. WHEN YOU LOOK TO THE EAST SIDE, THERE IS NO RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY. THERE'S, IT'S JUST BASICALLY ANOTHER COMMERCIAL SITE NEXT TO IT THAT'S BLOCK 8 34. 38. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THIS BUILDING BACKS UP TO THAT LOT LINE. OKAY. YOU TO THE SOUTH. AND AGAIN, YOU SAID THAT WHERE THE PROPOSED ONE STORY BUILDING IS, IS A GRASS FIELD CURRENTLY, SO IT'S UNDEVELOPED. CORRECT. OKAY, GO AHEAD. SO WHEN YOU GO TO THE DAVIS SIDE ON THE SOUTH SIDE YEP. YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS MADE BY THE CITY OF DALLAS WHERE WE SEE THREE ELM TREES PLACED IN THOSE TREE WELLS. I DON'T SEE 'EM YET. OH, WHERE, TELL ME WHERE I'M LOOKING. THERE. A TWO INCH L UH, THERE ARE THREE TREE WELLS WITH TREES IN THEM. UH OH. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU. TWO INCH L WHEN YOU LOOK ALONG DAVIS, THE OUTSIDE THE PROPERTY AND [01:15:01] ALONGSIDE THE SIDEWALK, THOSE, AND THOSE ARE EXISTING, THOSE ARE EXISTING, UH, INSTALLED BY THE CITY OF DALLAS. UH, THE TREE, THE TREE, YOU SEE WHERE THE BUILDING IS WITH AN X ON IT. GOT IT. THAT TREE IS GOING TO BE REMOVED. IS IT CURRENTLY EXISTING SO THAT THAT TREE WILL GO AWAY. OKAY. THERE WAS ANOTHER TREE ON THE ORIGINAL PLAN WHERE IT SAYS THERE'S A SIGN TO BE, BUT IT APPARENTLY HAD HAD FALLEN DURING A STORM AT SOME POINT, SO, WHICH NO LONGER IDENTIFIED. SO WHERE YOU SEE SIGN, THERE USED TO BE A TREE IN THAT LOCATION. OKAY. UH, SO ESSENTIALLY THAT'S THE BULK OF THE MITIGATION, UH, LANDSCAPING THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT FOR THE PROPERTY. THE, THE SMALL LITTLE XS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PROPOSED ONE STAR BUILDING. THAT'S NEW SHRUB, THAT'S NEW SHRUBS AS WELL EQUAL TO THE SHRUBS ON THE NORTH SIDE? CORRECT. OKAY. YES. MS. MS. HAYDEN, SO THE, THE, THE TREE THAT'S BEING REMOVED AT THE BOTTOM IS A 12 INCH RED OAK TREE. IS THERE MITIGATION FOR THAT? IS THERE A REQUIREMENT FOR MITIGATION? THERE'LL BE MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT. IF IT CANNOT BE PLANTED ON THE PROPERTY, IT WOULD BE DONE THROUGH OTHER MEANS, PROBABLY THROUGH PAYMENT FOR THE REFORESTATION FUND, DEPENDING ON THE SO DO WE, WE HAVE TO SPECIFY THAT AS PART OF THIS HEARING? NO, THAT'S A MITIGATION ISSUE THAT WE WILL ADDRESS DURING THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS. OKAY. SO WE DON'T, WE SHOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT THAT NOW THAT THAT TAKES CARE OF ITSELF. OKAY. KEEP GOING MS. HAYDEN. SO THAT, AND, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, IT'S THESE, UM, BURFORD WHARF, BURFORD HOLLYS THAT ARE OR PROPOSED ALONG EACH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THE SOUTH SIDE. CORRECT. AND THEY'RE 36 INCHES IN HEIGHT? CORRECT. OKAY, THANK YOU. NOW WHAT I DO NOT SEE ON THIS IS IDENTIFICATION OF WHERE THE PROPERTY BOUNDARY IS BEING ADJUSTED DUE TO, UH, I BELIEVE THE PLATTING IT MIGHT BE TO TAKING A FEW FEET OFF THAT NORTH SIDE THAT THE APPLICANT MIGHT BE ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT. I, SO I GUESS I, I HEAR YOU THAT OUR CONCERN THIS MORNING AND STILL NOW MM-HMM, , IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CONSIDER PLANS THAT ARE PROPOSED, GET YOUR, GET THE CITY'S PROFESSIONAL OPINION OF OBJECTION OR NOT, AND MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER THE PLANS THAT WE HAVE ARE ENFORCEABLE. SO MS. HAYDEN'S GOT ANOTHER QUESTION. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M AFTER. SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS, ARE THE PLANS THAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU ENFORCEABLE, IS THIS DETAILED ENOUGH THAT YOU AND OR BUILDING INSPECTION AND OR WHOEVER THE CITY'S GONNA REVIEW THESE? THIS, THIS IS SUFFICIENT FOR TO BE ENFORCED. I HAVE SUFFICIENT INFORMATION TO ENFORCE THAT. OKAY. MS. HAYDEN, UM, SO I CAN SEE ALONG THE, THE BOTTOM, THE SOUTH SIDE ALONG DAVIS STREET, THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF UNDERGROUND UTILITIES THAT ARE PROBABLY UNDER THAT SIDEWALK THERE THAT ARE PROBABLY PRETTY NEW. IF, IF THE CITY JUST REDID THAT PARKING IN THAT SIDEWALK AREA AND PLANTED THOSE TREES. IS THAT CORRECT? I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THE UTILITIES WERE REALIGNED. UH, THEY MAY HAVE BEEN, BUT THE CITY WENT IN AND REDID THAT ENTIRE SECTION OF THE STREET. BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF UTILITIES UNDER THERE ANYWAY. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY MAY HAVE BEEN PREEXISTING THAT MAY HAVE ALSO AFFECTED THE ORIGINAL BOARD CAST. GOTCHA. OKAY. BUT ON THE NORTH SIDE, I DON'T SEE ANY UNDERGROUND UTILITIES SHOWN. AND THERE'S A SECTION WITHIN THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH I WOULD CALL THE PARKWAY BETWEEN THE STREET, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY ADJACENT TO THOSE HAWS. ARE YOU TALKING ON THE NORTH SIDE? YES, ON FOUR ACRE. OKAY, GO AHEAD. SO THE HAWLEY'S THERE RIGHT UP AGAINST THE PROPERTY LINE IT LOOKS LIKE AND THE RIGHT OF WAY LINE, BUT ON THE OTHER, ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THAT RIGHT OF WAY, LINE BETWEEN THAT RIGHT OF WAY LINE AND THE CURB, WHAT'S IN THERE? IS THERE, IS THERE A SIDEWALK IN THERE OR IS THERE BRASS? WHAT IS, WHAT IS THAT LITTLE SECTION? THE PARKWAY SECTION? I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE'S A SIDEWALK. IT MAY BE A SUBJECT OF A SIDEWALK WAIVER THAT BASICALLY DIDN'T PROVIDE ONE FOR THAT LOCATION. I BELIEVE THE STREET IS UNAPPROVED FOR THAT LOCATION. OKAY. SO GENERALLY IT'S, IT'S, UH, QUESTIONABLE FOR ITS PROTECTION HAS NO CURB PROTECTION FOR THAT, FOR LANDSCAPING PURPOSES. OKAY. I, I, I WONDER IF MAYBE THE APPLICANT CAN TELL ME WHAT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET ALONG, UM, ALONG FOUR ACRES STREETS. YOU, YOU MEAN THE, UH, FORKNER STREET. OKAY. OKAY. THIS IS THE ONE HAS A LANDSCAPING. WE HAVE, WE PUT SOME SHARP THERE AND WITH THE GRASS IN THERE, AND THEN IT'S GRASS. YES. FROM BETWEEN THE SHRUB AND THE, AND THE STREET IS GONNA BE GRASS. YES MA'AM. OKAY. SO IT'S THE FOUR ACRE, UH, WE HAVE ON THE SCREEN FOUR ACRES THE STREET TO THE RIGHT. IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT, IS ARE YOU RUNNING THIS MR. OKAY. THAT'S FOUR ACRE AND, ALRIGHT. SO DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AS FAR AS WHAT YOU'RE ZEROING IN ON? YES. THANK YOU. OKAY. YOU MADE COMMENTS THIS MORNING, MR. IRWIN, THAT THE STREET, FOUR ACRE STREET WAS A NARROWER STREET AND BECAUSE OF THAT, UM, IT MAKES IT HARDER TO DO THE [01:20:01] FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THE UH, ARTICLE 10. ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU REFERRED TO THIS MORNING? WELL, IT'S THE COMBINATION, I SHOULD CLARIFY. IT'S A COMBINATION OF THE NARROWNESS OF THE STREET AND THE COMMERCIAL NARROW PROPERTY TO TRY TO ADDRESS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY THAT, THAT CLOSE TO A RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. UH, TRYING TO CREATE THAT, UH, LANDSCAPE BUFFER IS DIFFICULT TO DO WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MAXIMIZE USE OF THE LOT. OKAY. THE, THOSE ARE IN CONFLICT, HENCE WHY THE CASE IS HERE. YES, SIR. OKAY. ALRIGHT. DOES ANY MEMBER OF THE PANEL HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR MR. IRWIN REGARDING THESE SUBMITTED PLANS? UH, QUESTIONS FROM THE PANEL, PANEL TO THE APPLICANT? OKAY. UH, WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU IN A MOMENT, SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND SIT DOWN. OH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. YES. THANK YOU. UH, JUST HANG TIGHT AND YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK TO US IN A MINUTE. ALRIGHT, MS. BOARD SECRETARY, DO WE HAVE, UH, ANY SPEAKERS IN OPPOSITION OR ANY OTHER SPEAKERS IN SUPPORT? UH, NO. THERE SPEAKERS REGISTER, SIR. OKAY. SO SPEAK ANY SPEAKERS IN OPPOSITION? YES, I HAVE MS. PAM CONLEY. PLEASE COME FORWARD. GOOD AFTERNOON. IF YOU WOULD, UM, BE SWORN IN BY OUR BOARD SECRETARY, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? YES. PLEASE BEGIN WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS BEFORE PROCEEDING. MY NAME IS PAM CONLEY, 9 0 1 NORTH MADISON AVENUE, DALLAS, 7 5 2 0 8. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THIS PROPERTY IS IN PD EIGHT 30 SUB AREA SIX, WHICH ALLOWS 100% LOCK COVERAGE, BUT IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE 100% LOCK COVERAGE. AND LOOKING AT THE PAPERWORK THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SEE, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO BUILD A LARGE BUILDING AND HE'S ALSO PROPOSING TO KEEP AN OLDER STRUCTURE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY WITH NO LISTED USE. THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATIVES ON THIS PROPERTY. I'M SURE OUR ARBORISTS CAN TELL YOU THAT THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER PROPERTIES THAT DIDN'T HAVE MUCH ROOM, THAT FOUND OTHER WAYS OF PROVIDING LANDSCAPING. SOMETIMES THERE WERE SOME DONE ON THE ROOF AND OTHER INTERESTING THINGS. MAYBE THE ONE OF THE DRIVE APPROACHES ON THE NORTH SIDE DOESN'T NEED TO BE QUITE THAT WIDE. AND COULD LANDSCAPING BE PUT IN THERE? MAYBE THAT UNUSED BUILDING COULD BE TAKEN AWAY? IT HAS NO HISTORIC BENEFIT THAT I'M AWARE OF. WHAT I AM AWARE OF IS THAT WE ARE SUFFERING ON HEAT, WE ARE SUFFERING FROM A LACK OF TREES. WE NEED THE TREES. NOW THE CITY AND THEIR INFINITE WISDOM IS WANTING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, BUT THEY'RE ALSO NOW DOING SOME STUDIES ON HEAT. AND GUESS WHAT? BISHOP ARTS IS NOW A HOT SPOT. DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN COLOR TO SHOW YOU, BUT YOU CAN GET THIS ONLINE AND IT WOULD BE IN COLOR. THIS IS THE, UH, HEAT WATCH REPORT AND IT WAS A SURPRISE TO SEE SOMETHING IN OAK CLIFF THAT IS THE BRIGHTEST COLOR AROUND AS FAR AS HEAT IS CONCERNED. DO WE IGNORE OUR ARBORIST REQUIREMENTS? I SAT IN ON MANY OF THE HEARINGS WHEN OUR LANDSCAPING AND OUR TREE ORDINANCES WERE FARMED. AND MY MEMORY MAY NOT BE AS GOOD AS SOME OF YOURS, BUT I DO REMEMBER THAT THERE WERE OTHER WAYS OF DOING THIS. I DON'T SEE THAT ANY OTHER WAYS HAVE BEEN PROPOSED. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME WORK DONE ON THIS TO SHOW THAT THERE IS AN INTENT TO PROVIDE US WITH SOME MORE COVERAGE ON CANOPY TREES. SHRUBS ARE NICE AND WELCOME AND WE NEED THEM, BUT WE ALSO NEED SOME TREES. YOU HAVE A BIG RESPONSIBILITY HERE [01:25:03] AND I VALUE YOUR VOLUNTEER TIME BECAUSE I KNOW YOUR TIME IS IMPORTANT AND SO IS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD TIME AND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD QUALITY OF LIFE. SO I ASK YOU TO PLEASE EITHER DENY THIS OR REQUIRE SOME EXTRA EFFORT AT PROVIDING US WITH SOME ACCOMMODATION. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN AND COMMITTEE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. QUESTIONS THAT THE PANEL HAS FOR MS. CONNOLLY. MS. NARY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. I I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION. I DIDN'T QUITE GET YOUR ADDRESS AND WHERE YOU ARE IN, IN RELATION TO THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. OH, I'M IN THE KID SPRINGS NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS DIRECTLY TO THE, UH, NAR. BUT WHAT WAS YOUR ADDRESS AGAIN? 9 0 1 NORTH MADISON. THANK YOU UHHUH. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, THE APPLICANT CAN COME BACK CONSISTENT WITH OUR RULES. YOU HAVE UP TO FIVE MINUTES FOR, UM, A REBUTTAL OR ANY COMMENTS YOU WANT. THANK YOU. GIMME A CHANCE AGAIN TO TALK. UH, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF PRE I MEAN, OF COURSE, UM, ALL BUILDING HAS A BACKSIDE. 1, 2, 1 MORE TREES IN THE BIG TREES ON THE CORNER, UH, WEST DEBBIE SIDE. AND IF YOU WANT TO SUGGEST ME ANY WAY I CAN PUT SOME TREES, I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT. UH, YES. UH, SHE JUST PUT HER CONCERN, I RESPECT THAT IS, IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. WE ALL WANT GOOD STUFF IN THERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME AS A BUSINESS POINT OF VIEW, I'M WILLING TO DO AS MUCH AS I CAN IF THE IT ALLOW ME THIS SPACE IN THERE, ESPECIALLY CITY OF DALLAS, THE DEVELOPMENT WAS DONE. THEY TOOK ALL THE RIGHT WAY. ALL THOSE, UH, STUFF THEY TOOK AWAY AND THEY PUT THE CONCRETE IN THERE. EVEN THE WESLEY SIDE, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THIS NICE BEAUTIFUL DEVELOPMENT HAPPENED ONE YEAR. AND IF THAT PIECE IS OPEN, WE COULD PUT SOME PLANT IN THERE, OBVIOUSLY, BUT THAT'S, UH, PRETTY MUCH LIMIT MYSELF TO DO SOMETHING TOGETHER. BUT IF YOU GUYS, UH, THINK WE CAN DO SOMETHING IN THERE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I WOULD LOVE TO COMPLY WITH YOU ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. UH, QUESTIONS FROM THE PANEL FOR THE APPLICANT? I'VE GOT MS. HAYDEN AND THEN MS. DAVIS. MS. HAYDEN. SO ONE THING THAT CAME UP IN THE EARLIER BRIEFING IS THAT, UM, IT LOOKS, IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU WERE TO MODIFY THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING OR THE LOCATION OF THE BUILDING, YOU MAY PROVIDE FOR MORE OF A BUFFER, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESIDENTIAL AREA THAT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE. UM, YOU KNOW, ON THE SOUTH SIDE. I KNOW YOU SAID THE CITY PAVED AND YOU KNOW, PUT CONCRETE, BUT THEY ALSO DID PLANT SOME THREE, YOU KNOW, TREES. BUT I GUESS ON THE NORTH SIDE, UM, IT IT, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ROOM ENOUGH IN THAT PARKWAY WHERE YOU COULD PLANT SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME TREES OR DO A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN, THAN JUST THE HOLLY SHRUBS. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THAT? THAT'S, I HAVE A SECOND PART TO MY QUESTION, BUT I'LL LET YOU ANSWER THAT ONE FIRST. YOU MEAN TO RESIZE THE BUILDING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? OR JUST EITHER THAT OR JUST LOOK AT PLANTING SOMETHING IN THAT PARKWAY. SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST SHRUBS. YES. I THINK WE CAN PUT, UH, LOOK THAT WAY. IT LOOKS LIKE IF IT'S, UH, POSSIBLE I CAN PUT ONE OR TWO TREES IN THE NEXT TO EACH OTHER, UH, CLOSE TO THE DRIVEWAY. BUT I DON'T KNOW IT'S GONNA VISIBILITY AFFECT GONNA BE THERE OR NOT. BUT THE BIG TREES, UH, SAFETY MATTERS. IF IT'S NOT, DEFINITELY WE CAN PUT ONE OR TWO TREES RIGHT THERE NEXT TO EACH OTHER. IT'S POSSIBLE I THINK. YEAH. YEAH, I THINK YOU CAN DO THAT. STAND OUT OF THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE. RIGHT. AND THEN, UM, MY OTHER QUESTION WAS SINCE THERE IS A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE NORTH SIDE, UM, ACROSS THE STREET ON FOUR FOUR ACRE, UM, HAVE YOU HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? HAVE YOU TALKED TO THEM ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE PLANNING TO DO THERE? DO WE HAD A TALK. I MEAN, NOT OF, I DON'T GO KNOCK DOOR TO DOOR, BUT ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE, MY CUSTOMER BEEN YEARS AND YEARS. THEY LOVE US, WE LOVE THEM. WE SUPPORT EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME. SO I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAME AND RAISE THEIR FLAG WITH ME. I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING. AND THEY ARE ALL WELCOMING US AND WE ARE GOOD, UH, BUSINESS OWNER OUT THERE AND HELPING THE, YOU KNOW, EACH OTHER RIGHT THERE. I DON'T SEE ANY ISSUE WITH THEM AT ALL. OKAY. I I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF YOU'D REACHED OUT TO 'EM BECAUSE ONE OF, ONE OF THE CRITERIA I THEM TO ALL OF MY CUSTOMERS, THEY COME AND TALK. WE TALK EACH OTHER EVERY DAY AND THEY'RE EXCITED, THEY EXCITED TO SEE US. WE WHERE THAT AREA IS GROWING AND REFRESHING INSTEAD [01:30:01] OF SITTING THIS THE WAY IT IS, WE HAVE A SPACE AND WE CAN BRING MORE ECONOMY IMPACT IN THAT AREA. THANK YOU. SURE. THANK YOU MS. HAYDEN. MS. DAVIS. OKAY. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. SO MY FIRST QUESTION, WHAT IS THE, WHAT WILL YOU BE USING THE BUILDING FOR? THIS IS GONNA BE A CONVENIENCE STORE, C STORE. ISN'T THERE A CONVENIENCE STORE ALL ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GAS, GAS PUMPS? YES. AND ALSO A LITTLE GROCERY STORE ACROSS THE STREET. IT IS, BUT UH, THE STORE IS SO SMALL, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE CROWD GROWING UP, THIS OAKLEY AREA AND THE, THE WAY OUR, UH, DEMAND WITH THE CUSTOMER SO WE HAVE MORE TRAFFIC THERE. THIS IS GONNA DEMAND FOR THE, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMER SIDE. WE NEED TO MAKE THE PLACE BIGGER TO ACCOMMODATE OUR CUSTOMER IN THERE. SO WHY NOT EXPAND THAT SPACE? WHY ARE YOU TAKING UP THIS SPACE? AND AGAIN, THERE IS A GROCERY STORE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. SEE THE, I CANNOT EXPAND THAT PLACE. THAT WAS MY, YOU YOU READ MY HEART. OKAY. I WISH I COULD DO IT. AND IT GONNA COST US A LOT LESS MONEY. IT'S ECONOMIC ECONOMICALLY. IT'LL BE VERY VISIBLE FOR ME. BUT BACKSIDE IS NOT MY PROPERTY. I INTEND TO BUY IT. THEY DON'T WANNA SELL IT. AND NEXT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING, THERE'S A TANK SITTING THERE. YOU KNOW, THE GAS TANK UNDER THE GROUND. YEAH. SITTING RIGHT THERE. MM-HMM. . SO NO WAY AROUND I COULD DO IT. OKAY. UM, UH, MY NEXT QUESTION, COUPLE QUESTIONS ARE GONNA GO TO YOUR COMMENT THAT YOU'D BE WILLING TO ADD SOME TREES OR, OR MAKE SOME MODIFICATIONS. HOW I, I'D LOVE TO SEE A REDUCTION IN THE SIZE OF THE SPACE SO THAT YOU CAN PRESERVE THAT ONE, THAT RED OAK TREE. WHY HAVEN'T YOU CONSIDERED REDUCING THAT FOOTPRINT A LITTLE BIT? THIS IS A LARGE BUILDING AND IF YOU REALLY DO WANNA BE A GOOD COMMUNITY PARTNER AND, AND INCLUDE THE LANDSCAPING THAT'S REQUIRED OF YOU, YOU JUST BRING THAT IN A LITTLE BIT. WHY NOT DO THAT? SURE. UH, WHAT IT IS, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TREE, I MEAN WE DID CONSIDER THE BUILDING COULD BE LOCKED BIGGER BECAUSE THAT AREA WE CAN BUILD ZERO ZERO LOT. SO WE WAIT I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AREA? I THINK WE CAN BUILD ON ZERO LOT THING. LIKE YOU, YOU CAN GO IN LINE TO BUILD YOUR BUILDING CO CORRECT. WHICH, WHICH ISN'T VERY ATTRACTIVE, BUT YES. BUT IT STILL, WE GIVE UP SOME SPACE. MM-HMM. TO, YOU KNOW, PUT THE SHRUB THERE. BOTH END THAT WAY. UH, CITY OFFICE JUST ASK US TO DO, WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM IN MORE THAN A YEAR AND TIME TO THEM. WE HAVE A MEETING, THEY'RE ASKING TO GIVE MORE SHR, MORE GREEN SPOT AND WE ARE WORKING, MY ENGINEER WORKING ACCORDING THAT WAY. UH, IT'S JUST MY ONE BOARD MEMBER'S OPINION THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO OPTIMIZE THAT SPACE SO MUCH THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HURT THE AESTHETICS AROUND IT. AND, YOU KNOW, TO TO OUR OTHER SPEAKER'S POINT, UM, WE NEED TREES. WE'RE, WE'RE LIKE, THIS AREA IS VERY DEVOID OF TREES AND JUST BY REDUCING THE SPACE OF YOUR BUILDING A LITTLE BIT, YOU COULD COMPLY WITH THESE REQUIREMENTS. SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME CONVINCING FOR ME TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS, THIS PLAN. I, I THINK YOU, YOU READ MY MIND. UH, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, UH, WE CAN PUT A COUPLE OF TREES RIGHT THERE NEXT TO EACH OTHER. LIKE, UH, CURBSIDE IF WHERE, WHERE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? IF YOU, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT RIGHT HERE, ONE AND TWO TREES, WE CAN EASILY PUT IN THERE JUST, UH, FORKNER SIDE. THE SECOND DRIVEWAY. NICK, THERE'S SHARP THERE. WE CAN PUT EASILY A COUPLE OF TREES RIGHT THERE IF IT'S, IF IT'S OKAY. UH, I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT. ANY SIZE IF YOU WANT TO. FINE. WHAT ABOUT PRESERVING THAT RED OAK THAT'S ALREADY THERE? WE'LL, DEFINITELY WILL KEEP IT. SO YOU'D MOVE THE MOVING, YOU'D MOVE THAT BUILDING BACK TO PRESERVE THAT RED OAK. OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT RED OAK? YES. IT'S GONNA, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE. WE WORK HARD ON THAT. IT'S BECAUSE IT CAME UP TO IT. JUST SLIDE EDGE 3, 4, 5, 6 FEET IN BETWEEN. WE HAVE TO RELOCATE THAT ONE FOR SURE. OR I CAN PUT ANOTHER TREE RIGHT THERE THAT WHERE THE SIGN AREA IS. WE CAN PUT ANOTHER TREE RIGHT THERE. THAT WAS A TREE THERE, BUT IT'S BROKEN DOWN. IT'S TOO BIG. BUT THE STRO IS BROKEN DOWN. IT IS FALL APART AND THE ONE OF THE STRONG LIKE LAST YEAR SOMEWHERE. OKAY, SO THIS IS FOR MR. IRWIN. SO FOR THEM TO COMPLY WITH THOSE, THEY WOULD NEED TO HAVE THOSE TWO TR THAT THE ONE TREE I UNDERSTAND FELL DOWN IN THE STORM AND THEN THE RED OAK, UM, THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO BE EITHER GETTING RID OF THAT OR HE'S JUST SAID HE COULD POSSIBLY MOVE IT TO COMPLY WITH THE PLAN. HOW MANY TREES WOULD THEY NEED? WHAT, WHAT DO THEY NEED TO CHANGE ABOUT THIS LANDSCAPE PLAN TO BE COMPLIANT? THE, THAT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IF I WANTED TO DO STREET TREES, SITE TREES, I'M THINKING WE'RE ONLY LOOKING AT THE FIVE TREES I BELIEVE. UH, BUT AS FAR AS STREET TREES, WE START LOOKING AT ONE TREE PER 40 FEET OF FRONTAGE ON TWO STREET FRONTAGES. [01:35:01] SO EVEN ON THE SOUTH SIDE, WE CAN ONLY, WE, UH, PROVIDE FOR THREE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. UM, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IF THE TWO 30 FEET, UM, WE'D HAVE A WAYS TO GO TO TRY TO GET THE NUMBER OF TREES REQUIRED FOR THAT, FOR THAT STRETCH. NOW I ALSO NEED TO SAY THAT IF WE WERE TO ALSO LOOK AT THE ARTICLE 10 STANDARDS FOR PLACING TREES IN PROXIMITY TO THE STRUCTURE, I'M GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THAT. SO IF WE WANTED TO PLANT TREES IN THAT RIGHT OF WAY ON FOUR ACRE, WE MIGHT BE LOOKING AT PLACING SMALL TREES VERSUS LARGE TREES, UH, FOR THAT, THAT LOCATION. AND IT'D ALSO BE OFF PROPERTY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE WE'RE WAY OFF WHERE HE'S WAY OFF WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE IN TERMS OF BEING COMPLIANT AND HAVING THE TREES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN THIS SPACE. THAT'S CORRECT. SO WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS A REASONABLE NUMBER OF TREES? I, I KNOW YOU MENTIONED THE SITE AND YOU SAID FIVE TREES. WELL, IT'S BASED ON ONE TREE PER 4,000 SQUARE FEET. I'M TRYING TO RECALL THE EXACT SIZE OF THE LOT. UM, IT, THAT, THAT'S JUST SITE TREES. BUT WHEN I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF STREET TREES BASED ON A LINEAR FEE ON BOTH STREET FRONTAGES, WELL, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE LOT IS 14,939. ACCORDING TO THE LANDSCAPE TABULATION IT SAYS 14 9 39. SO, SO WHAT WOULD THAT CALCULATE? WELL, WE'D BE GETTING INTO FOUR TREES. SO IT'S LESS THAN THE TOTAL TREE. THE TOTAL TREE REQUIREMENT BE BASED ON YOUR STREET FRONTAGE. OKAY. BASED ON HOW MANY TREES PER STREET FRONT PLUS ALSO THE, THE, THE LACK OF STREET BUFFER ZONE ALONG THE PROPERTY. SO IT'S A MATTER OF WHERE TO PLACE THE TREES. WE CAN PLACE TREES IN THE RIGHT OF WAY AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT INTERFERING WITH ANY CITY FUNCTION. THERE, THERE IS NO SIDEWALK, BUT I PRESUME THAT COULD BE A, FROM A SIDEWALK WAIVER, UM, IF THAT PERSISTS AND WE DON'T NEED THE SIDEWALK, THEN THAT WILL BE SUSTAINABLE. BUT, BUT WE CAN PROPOSE A TREE THERE. BUT IF THE CITY NEEDED TO REMOVE THE TREE, THE CITY COULD. OKAY. UH, THIS IS JUST, I I I BELIEVE MORE WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THIS TO BE COMPLIANT. I MEAN, WHEN, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT LEAST FOUR OR FIVE ADDITIONAL TREES, AND THAT'S NOT EVEN MEETING THE REQUIREMENT. I THINK TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR AND TO BE A GOOD CITIZEN, THIS NEEDS ADDITIONAL WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN INCLUDE THOSE TYPE, THAT TYPE OF GREENERY. UM, SO THAT DOESN'T LOOK STARK. SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THIS HUGE BLOCK ON A VERY SMALL PARCEL. AND, UM, JUST TO, TO MAKE IT MORE CONDUCIVE TO BEING FRIENDLY TO THE ENVIRONMENT. YOU'RE WELCOME TO RESPOND TO THAT COMMENT. OH, OH, OF COURSE. UM, AS YOU SAID, UM, WE CAN PUT ONE TREE, WHAT'S THE SIGNAGE AT RIGHT THERE? WE CAN DEFINITELY PUT ONE, UH, PROBABLY SMALLER SIZES BECAUSE IT IS ALSO SAFETY MATTERS TO OBSTRUCT THE TR YOU KNOW, A VIEW. AND SAME WAY WE CAN DO OTHER SIDE TWO OR THREE MORE. EVEN THE, IF THE SHRUB IS THERE, WE CAN PUT THE SMALLER COUPLE OF TREES OUT THERE NEXT TO EACH OTHER. I MEAN NER SIDE AT LEAST TWO, THREE TREES WE CAN SMALLER SIZE THAT CAN, I THINK HELP US OUT TO WHATEVER THE CONCERN IS, BRING THE GREEN OUT IN OUR TOWN. YES. ANYTHING ELSE, MS. DAVIS? OKAY. SO, UM, I WAS LOOKING AT THIS EXPANDED MAP THAT YOU PROVIDED US. THANK YOU. AND THEN I LOOKED INTO THE PACKET OF INFORMATION THAT IS PROVIDED TO US BY STAFF. AND I WAS ASTONISHED WHY NO PEOPLE, NO ONE RESPONDED TO THE NOTIFICATION. SO WE NOTIFIED 27 PROPERTY OWNERS. I'M THINKING WHY WOULD 27 PROPERTY OWNERS NOT RESPOND? AND IT BEGGED THE QUESTION, I THINK ALL THE LOTS THAT ARE OFF A FOUR ACRE DON'T FACE FOUR ACRE, IT THEIR, THAT'S THE REAR PART OF THEIR PROPERTY. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO THERE'S NO FRONTAGE ON FOUR ACRE OF HOMES. THE HOMES ALL FRONT KNEELY. 'CAUSE ON OUR NOTIFICATION LIST, THE STREETS LISTED ARE KNEELY. I DON'T SEE ANY FOUR ACRE. THE REASON WHY I SAY THAT IT IF FOR ME THAT LESSENS THE BURDEN OF TREES ON THE NORTH SIDE. NOW THAT DOES NOT LESSEN THE BURDEN OF THE TREES ON THE SOUTH SIDE, WHICH IS REALLY WHERE THE COMMUNITY IS TRANSITING, WHETHER BY FOOT, BY BIKE, OR BY CAR. WHAT'S YOUR, WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT? CAN YOU OCCUR? I MEAN I I I DON'T GET IT. RIGHT. WELL, WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT IS I CAN SEE MS. DAVIS WAS TALKING ABOUT FURTHER TREES, RIGHT? YOU MENTIONED YOU'RE WILLING TO DO THAT. UH, THE, THE, THE YOUNG LADY WHO SPOKE, UM, AGAINST THIS, MS. MS CONNOLLY WHO LIVES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OUTSIDE OF THE MEDIA AREA, BUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD SAID THAT SPOKE TO THE NEED FOR TREES. SO I'M THINKING, OKAY, HOW DO WE BALANCE OUR CRITERIA? OUR CRITERIA IS STRICT COMPLIANCE OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS ARTICLE WILL, [01:40:01] WILL UNREASONABLY BURDEN THE USE OF THE PROPERTY, BUT WILL ALSO NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. SO I'M TRYING TO BALANCE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY UNBURDEN SOME FOR YOUR PROPERTY. 'CAUSE YOU'RE THE PROPERTY OWNER. AND I'M THINKING IF WE WERE TO ADD MORE TREES, IF, WHERE WOULD YOU ADD THEM? DOES IT REALLY ADD VALUE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO HAVE 'EM ALONG FOUR ACRE WHEN THAT'S REALLY BASICALLY AN ALLEY? IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A FRONTAGE TO ANY HOME BECAUSE I DON'T SEE ANY HOMES LISTED WITH A FRONT AC FOUR ACRE, D FOUR ACRE ADDRESS. SO ADDING ANY TREES, IN MY OPINION, MR. IRWIN, YOU CAN RESPOND TO ME. ANY TREES OF SUBSTANCE ALONG FOUR ACRE I THINK IS A WASTED EFFORT. I THINK THE EFFORT, IF THERE'S GONNA BE EFFORT FOR TREES IS ALONG DAVIS BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRANSITING. NOW I HAVEN'T BEEN OVER THERE TO KNOW WHETHER THAT STREET OR THIS STREET OR WHATEVER. I'M JUST SAYING LOOKING AT THE MAP AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO I KIND OF, I'M, I'M FOLLOWING UP WITH MS. DAVIS'S COMMENT ABOUT MORE TREES. WHERE WOULD YOU PUT TREES AND HOW ARE THEY IMPACTFUL OR NOT? UH, AT THE SAME TOKEN, I DON'T WANNA UNDULY BURDEN YOUR PROPERTY THANK YOU. BUT YOU, BUT YOU ARE COMING TO US BASED ON BUILDING A, A LARGE BUILDING THAT DISPLACES AREAS WHERE TREES COULD BE HENCE THE REQUEST. SO I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT MY LOGIC IS, WHAT I'M SAYING, I'M SAYING OUT LOUD WHAT MY LOGIC IN BALANCING THIS REQUEST, I'M GIVING YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND. SURE, SURE. THAT'S INTERESTING QUESTION YOU ASKED ME. ACTUALLY, WE CAN WORK TOGETHER. MY GOAL IS WE CAN WORK TOGETHER THE WAY YOUR IDEA IS, WE CAN CHECK AND BALANCE TOGETHER AND FIND OUT THE FINE LINE WHAT MAKES ALL US HAPPY. THIS IS MY FIRST GOAL AS THE THREE SEE THE PROBLEM I SEE IF I BE HONEST WITH YOU, THE WAY CITY OF DALLAS MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT, THE OAV SIDE, THAT'S CUT ME SHORT BIG TIME. SEE, OVY IS THE CITY OF DALLAS. THE WAY THEY PAVE THE WHOLE THING. IF YOU EVER WALKED IN THERE LOOKING BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE WALK, PEOPLE BIKE. UH, PEOPLE SIT IN FRONT OF MY, UH, YOU KNOW, AREA. WE CAN PUT COUPLE OF BENCHES THERE IF YOU WANT ME TO. I MEAN, THEY, THEY WALK, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY GONNA LET ME TO CUT THE NICE CONCRETE AND PUT SOME TREES THERE. I'LL LOVE TO DO THAT IF THEY LET ME DO IT. OKAY. SO OUR ROLE IS TO RESPOND TO A REQUEST BASED ON WHAT THE CODE REQUIRES. YOU MADE A REQUEST TO PUT A BUILD A BUILDING WHICH TRIGGERS LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS. YOU'RE WANTING TO NOT MEET THE STATED LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS. SO YOU'RE COMING TO US FOR, FOR COMING TO US FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. WE DON'T WANNA TELL YOU WHAT TO DO, WE'RE JUST GIVING YOU THE FEEDBACK SURE. BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING, WHAT OUR PROFESSIONAL ARBORIST IS TELLING US AND WHAT WE HEAR FROM ONE MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY. SO, BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE IN THE POSITION OF YOU THINKING THAT WE'RE GONNA TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. YOU'RE JUST HEARING. BUT AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HEARING REQUIRES FOUR AFFIRMATIVE VOTES IN ORDER FOR US TO APPROVE SOMETHING. SO I I DON'T EVER WANT AN APPLICANT TO THINK WE'RE TELLING HIM WHAT TO DO, BUT, SO NO, I I GOT THAT. I GOT THAT. OKAY. SO WHAT, WHAT I, I CAN DO THERE AS I TALK EARLIER, CONVERSATION, WE CAN TAKE, UH, I CAN TALK TO MY ENGINEER, YOU KNOW, A CIVIL ENGINEER GUY AND HE, HE'S NOT HERE TODAY, BY THE WAY. SO WE CAN PUT A COUPLE MORE TREES IN THE FAULKNER SIDE AS THAT'S GONNA LOOKS BEAUTIFUL. YOU DIDN'T HEAR WHAT I SAID? I DON'T THINK THAT SOLVES ANYTHING. THAT THAT'S JUST ONE, THAT'S JUST ONE PERSON'S VOTE. YES. YES. I DON'T SEE ADDING TREES TO THE FAULKNER SIDE, WHICH IS THE BACK END OF HOUSES THAT I, I DON'T THINK THAT HAS THE IMPACT THAT I THINK THE BOARD IS ABOUT TO ASK YOU TO DO. I AM OKAY WITH YOU 110% IF C LET CUT THIS NICE, BEAUTIFUL CONCRETE AND PUT ME SOME TREES THERE. I'M A HUNDRED PERCENT FOR IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT, MS. A, UM, I DO HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION. UM, ONE OF THE CRITERIA THAT WE LOOK AT THAT WE HAVE TO CONSIDER OR THAT WE'RE ASKED TO CONSIDER IS THE EXTENT TO WHICH OTHER EXISTING OR PROPOSED AMENITIES WILL COMPENSATE FOR THE REDUCTION IN OF LANDSCAPING. UM, AND I DIDN'T REALLY SEE THAT ON THE, ON THE PLAN THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WERE PROPOSING THAT WOULD COMPENSATE FOR THE REDUCTION IN LANDSCAPING. BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK AT IT, I DO SEE JUST IMPERVIOUS AREA CONCRETE, WHETHER THE TREES ARE ON THE NORTH SIDE OR THE SOUTH SIDE OR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LOT, YOU KNOW, IN A, IN A SECTION, AN ISLAND IN THE PARKWAY OR IN THE PARKING LOT, UM, WHEREVER THEY ARE OR WHEREVER ANY SORT OF LANDSCAPING IS. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT, UM, THAT THIS SITE, UM, MAYBE SHARPEN YOUR PENCIL A LITTLE BIT LIKE YOU SAID. SURE. AND, AND FIND SOME WAYS TO, TO MITIGATE THAT. UM, BECAUSE IT IS A LOT OF PAVEMENT AND IT IS AN URBAN AREA. AND AS WE HEARD FROM OUR EARLIER SPEAKER, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS ISSUE WITH URBAN, URBAN HEAT [01:45:01] ISLAND EFFECT IN, IN DALLAS. SO I THINK IT REALLY WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. SURE. WE'LL DO THAT. CAN I ADD A LITTLE COMMENTS IF YOU DON'T MIND? I, I'M SORRY. CAN I ADD ONE COMMENTS VERY BRIEFLY? OKAY. SO WHAT HAPPENED THE UNDER THE CANOPY WE HAD, WE MADE A LITTLE ISLAND AND WE PUT SOME FLOWER BUSHES THERE ALL THE TIME. WE MAINTAIN THAT AROUND THE YEAR IT COST US EXTRA MONEY IS BECAUSE COMPLETELY TOP OF THE PAVING. AND I'M MAINTAINING LAST 10 YEARS, MA'AM. AND I'LL, I'LL KEEP ON DOING IT AS MUCH AS I CAN TO, TO, YOU KNOW, LOOKS GOOD AND LOOKS, YOU KNOW, LOOK NICE THIS PLACE. AND ALSO, UH, WE WAS CONSIDERING TO PUT COUPLE MORE TABLES SITTING WHEN PEOPLE WALK NEXT TO OUR BUILDING, THEY CAN SIT AND RELAX IN THERE UNDER THE, YOU KNOW, UH, SHADE WE HAVE. WE WANT TO DO THAT ALSO. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR FOR STAFF OR, UH, THE INDIVIDUALS SPOKEN IN OPPOSITION? HEARING NONE, THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MS. DAVIS, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 DASH 71 HOLD THIS MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT UNTIL JULY 16TH, 2024 MOTION HAS BEEN MADE BY MS. DAVIS TO HOLD, UH, BDA 2 3 4 0 7 1 UNDER ADVISEMENT UNTIL JULY 16TH, 2024. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MS. HAYDEN. MS. DAVIS. UM, WE'RE HOLDING THIS OVER BECAUSE IF WE WOULD DENY IT, YOU'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AGAIN. SO THIS IS A, YOU KNOW, THIS IS MAKING IT EASIER FOR YOU TO GO BACK AND REVISE YOUR PLAN. WE TYPICALLY DO NOT LIKE TO HOLD OVER CASES. WE'LL DO IT ONE TIME FOR THE MOST PART. SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO COME BACK WITH A VERY ROBUST PLAN WITH ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. AND YOU'VE HEARD FROM MANY OF US. YOU KNOW, YOU'VE HEARD FROM A COMMUNITY MEMBER MEMBER, WE'RE LOOKING FOR MORE TREES, WE'RE LOOKING FOR MORE GREENERY HERE. SO I'D REALLY ENCOURAGE THAT NEXT PLAN TO INCLUDE THE THINGS THAT WE DISCUSSED DURING THIS PRESENTATION. MS. HAYDEN, UM, I AGREE WITH MS. DAVIS AND I ALSO WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU WHEN YOU COME BACK BEFORE THE BOARD TO, TO MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE THOSE AMENITIES THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED, LIKE THE LANDSCAPING AREAS WITH THE FLOWERS AND THE BENCHES AND THE CANOPIES AND, AND THINGS THAT YOU HAVE THAT WOULD SORT OF MITIGATE THE, SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE HAVE. SO IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR THAT TO BE INCLUDED ON THE SITE PLAN, JUST SO WE CAN SAY, OKAY, IN GOOD FAITH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE MAKING AN EFFORT TO MAKE THIS BETTER. SURE. UH, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION TO HOLD THIS OVER ONE MONTH, JULY 16TH. UH, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU VERY QUICKLY, UH, FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO PROPOSE, WHETHER IT'S THE SAME OR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. UH, WORKING WITH THE ARBORIST AND OR THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF OF THE BOARD OF OUR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. YOU'VE HEARD FEEDBACK TODAY, A VARIETY OF FEEDBACK, BUT IN THE END, YOU NEED TO DECIDE WHAT'S IN YOUR BEST INTEREST AS THE PROPERTY OWNER. I VERY MUCH RESPECT YOUR, UH, RIGHT, UH, WITHIN THE ZONING RULES TO OPERATE AND, AND BUILD AND CONDUCT BUSINESS ON YOUR PROPERTY. I'M VERY SENSITIVE TO THE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE. THAT STRICT COMPLIANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS ARTICLE WILL UNREASONABLY BURDEN THE USE OF THE PROPERTY. THIS IS A NARROW PIECE OF PROPERTY. IT'S PROPERLY, UH, PLATTED. AND SO YOU, YOU PRESUMABLY CAN BUILD ON IT. UM, BUT IT SEEMS SKINNY AS IT LIKE RELATES TO THE GREENERY. AND UM, THAT'S A VERY WALKABLE AREA. THAT'S A VERY, THAT AREA IS TRANS TRANSITED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE AS PART OF A COMMUNITY. UH, AND SO IT MAKES SENSE TO TRY TO BALANCE MY RESPECT FOR YOUR PROPERTY RIGHTS WITH THE FACT THAT IT NEEDS TO, YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU CAN GREEN IT FURTHER. AND SHRUBBERY, I THINK MR. IRWIN SAID WAS 36 INCHES. THREE THREE FOOT SHRUBBERY. ONE THING. TREES THAT HAVE SOME LEVEL OF CANOPY AND HAVE A GREATER IMPACT WOULD PERSUADE THIS ONE VOTE. AND AGAIN, FOR AN EXCEPTION, YOU NEED FOUR OR FIVE MEMBERS OF THIS PANEL, UM, STAFF. DOES HE, WHAT DEADLINE DOES HE HAVE TO SUBMIT BACK TO YOU ALL IN ORDER TO MAKE OUR JULY 16TH MEETING? IS THAT ENOUGH TIME OR DOES, DO WE NEED TO MOVE THIS TO AUGUST? OR IS THAT A QUESTION OF MR. IRWIN? GIVE ME ONE SECOND. I CAN LOOK AT THE CALENDAR. OKAY. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT HIS TURN TIME IS HE, HE CAN MAKE THE TURN TIME OF WHATEVER YOU ALL NEED IN ORDER TO HANDLE THAT. BECAUSE WE, WE MAY HAVE TO MOVE THIS TO AUGUST. IF WE CAN'T MAKE IT FOR JULY, I'D PREFER JULY. JUST SO THAT WE, WE DON'T YOU GET AN ANSWER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BUT I DON'T WANNA MAKE THIS AN IMPOSSIBLE ASK. I BELIEVE I COULD WORK WITHIN ADMINISTRATOR'S TIMELINE. SAY THAT AGAIN. [01:50:01] I COULD WORK WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATOR'S TIMELINE. OH, WHAT A TEAM PLAYER YOU ARE. YOU'RE SAYING THAT 'CAUSE YOUR BOSS IS BEHIND MY SHOULDER. OH, HE IS GONE. . WELL, JASON, JASON POOL. YOU HEARD THAT PHIL . SO WE'LL PAUSE ONE SECOND SIR. SURE. SO FOR, UM, SO THIS WAS COMING IN AS A REGULAR, VERY, VERY, VERY CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE. AND THIS WAS COMING IN FOR A REGULAR CASE FOR OUR JULY HEARINGS. THE, UM, DATES THAT WE GAVE OUR JULY APPLICANTS WOULD'VE BEEN, UM, JUNE 21ST, UM, IN PREPARATION FOR OUR, BUT THE CASE IS ALREADY WRITTEN UP. WHAT ALL WHAT YOU'LL BE DOING IS LOOKING AT A REVISED LANDSCAPE PLAN, RIGHT? SO I'M GIVING YOU THE DATE. SO FOR JULY, IT'LL BE JUNE 21ST, UM, FOR OUR UM, SRT IN PREPARATION FOR OUR SRT MEETING AND FOR DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE IT WILL BE JULY 1ST, JULY 5TH. SO IT, ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT HE HAS TO SUBMIT IT BY JUNE 21ST? OR YOU TELLING ME JULY 5TH? WHAT, WHAT DATE ARE YOU TELLING ME? 'CAUSE AS SOON AS YOU TELL ME A DATE, I'M GONNA GO BACK TO HIM AND ASK IF HE CAN MEET THAT DEADLINE. I WOULD SAY JULY 21ST. UM, BEING JULY 21ST. YOU MEAN JUNE. JUNE 21ST. SO, UM, SO THAT WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION TO DISCUSS DURING OUR, UM, JUNE 28TH OR JUNE 30TH SRT MEETING. WELL WAIT A MINUTE. TODAY IS THE 18TH. THAT'S THREE DAYS. THERE'S NO WAY ANYONE COULD DO THAT. THAT'S OUR, OUR DEADLINE FOR I KNOW. SO, AND IF I ASKED YOU TO PUSH YOUR DEADLINE SUM, HOW MUCH COULD YOU PUSH IT? MAYBE THE 25TH. NOT, OR YOU'RE JUST GENEROUS NOT TOO FAR BECAUSE WE'LL NEED THAT INFORMATION FOR OUR UM, SRTI STAFF REVIEW MEETING. OKAY. TEAM REVIEW MEETING. OKAY, THAT DOESN'T SOUND ENOUGH TIME FOR THE APPLICANT. ALRIGHT, SO HERE'S YOUR, HERE'S YOUR QUESTION. WE'RE GONNA POSTPONE THIS CASE SO WE COULD POSTPONE IT TO THE JULY MEETING, UM, OF WHICH YOU BASICALLY HAVE ONE WEEK TO RESUBMIT REVISED PLANS, HAVE A DISCUSSION, RESUBMIT, OR WE CAN JUST POSTPONE IT ALL THE WAY TO AUGUST, WHICH MEANS YOU'D HAVE A FULL MONTH. CAN YOU JUST GIMME ONE SECOND? OF COURSE. YEAH, LET'S GO FROM AUGUST THEN. OKAY. MS. UH, MS. DAVIS, WOULD YOU MODIFY YOUR MOTION PLEASE? AND WHAT'S OUR AUGUST DATE GUYS? WHAT'S OUR AUGUST HEARING DATE FOR PENALTY? IT'S AUGUST 19TH. WAIT, IS IT AUGUST 20TH? AUGUST 20TH. OKAY. SO IF YOU WOULD AMEND THAT, PLEASE. SO JUST DO I NEED TO SCRATCH MY, UH, YES. SO, SO WITHDRAW YOUR MOTION PLEASE. YOU WOULD JUST WITHDRAW. I WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW MY MOTION. MS. HAYDEN, DO YOU ACCEPT THE WITHDRAWAL? YES. THE MOTION TO MOVE WITHDRAWN. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 DASH 71 HOLD THIS MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT UNTIL AUGUST 20TH, 2024. I SECOND A MOTION IS MADE BY MS. DAVIS, SECONDED BY MS. HAYDEN TO HOLD OVER BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 1 TO AUGUST 20TH, 2024. ARE WE SURE OF AUGUST 20TH BEFORE I PROCEED? AUGUST, THAT'S PENALTY. AUGUST 20TH. OKAY, SO, UH, DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION IF WE NOT ALRIGHT, WE, UH, WE HAVEN'T VOTED YET, BUT I'M GONNA TELL YOU WE'RE POSTPONING TO GIVE YOU AMPLE TIME, UH, TO BE ABLE TO COME BACK, WORK WITH THE ARBORIST TEAM AND OR THE STAFF IN ORDER TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU FEEL YOU CAN LIVE WITH AND YOU THINK THAT THE BOARD CAN APPROVE AND THAT'S YOUR LUCKY BURDEN. ALRIGHT? THE BOARD WILL, UH, CALL, I'LL CALL FOR THE VOTE. BOARD SECRETARY MS. DAVIS. AYE. MS. HAYDEN AYE. MR. OVITZ? AYE. MR. MARY AYE. MR. CHAIR? AYE MOTION, MOTION PASSES TO HOLD UNTIL AUGUST 20TH, FIVE TO ZERO IN THE MATTER OF BDA TWO IN THE MATTER BDA A 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 1. THE BOARD, UH, UNANIMOUSLY ON A FIVE ZERO VOTE MOVES TO HOLD THIS ITEM OVER, UH, FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION TO AUGUST 20TH, 2024. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA TODAY IS BDA 2 3 4 DASH SEVEN THREE BDA 2 3 4 0 7 3. UH, THIS IS AT 2 1 1 2 HAM GENE BOULEVARD. IS THE APPLICANT HERE? YES, SIR. SIR. GOOD AFTERNOON, HOW ARE YOU? I AM EXCELLENT. GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE TODAY. UM, MS. WILLIAMS, IF YOU WOULD SWEAR, FIRST OF ALL, HOW MANY SPEAKERS DO WE HAVE FOR 2 3 4 0 7 3? JUST THE APPLICANT. JUST THE APPLICANT. OKAY. [01:55:01] IF YOU WOULD BE SWORN IN BY OUR BOARD SECRETARY, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? YES, I DO. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. ROB BALDWIN. 3 9 0 4 ELM STREET, SUITE B. UM, WHO'S EVER IN CHARGE OF THE PERFECT, THANK YOU. OKAY, HOLD ON ONE SECOND. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, YOUR SWORN, UH, MR. BALDWIN, UM, WE, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS, RIGHT, MARY? OKAY, GOOD. ALRIGHT, PROCEED SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, AGAIN, MY NAME'S ROB BALDWIN, I OFFICE AT 3 9 0 4 ELM STREET, SUITE B IN DALLAS. I'M REPRESENTING THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THIS PROPERTY. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. IT, IT'S LOCATED AT, AT THE CEDARS AT THE CORNER OF BAINE AND CORINTH. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. UM, OOPS, ONE, THERE WE GO. THE AREA HIGHLIGHTED IN GREEN. THIS IS THE FIRST PHASE OF A TWO PHASE PROJECT. WE ALSO ARE HA HAVE THE PROPERTY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF PAR, UH, PARKER STREET. SO HOW DID WE GET HERE? SO, UM, THIS IS IN PD THREE 17 AND IN PD THREE 17, IT'S A KIND OF A FORM-BASED DISTRICT WHERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE STREET FRONTAGES, UH, OR ADDRESS STREET FRONTAGES ON EACH STREET FRONTAGE, WE HAVE TO HAVE A BUILDING BETWEEN FIVE AND EIGHT FEET. UM, SO WE WENT TO THE, WE COULD NOT DO THAT OR DID, IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO DO IT ON PARNELL, AND YOU'LL SEE WHY IN A MINUTE. SO WE WENT TO, UH, THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION TO, TO SEEK RELIEF, TO NOT HAVE TO HAVE OUR HOMES, UH, FRONT ONTO PARNELL, UH, PARNELL STREET BECAUSE IT WAS ESSENTIALLY AN ALLEY THAT FACES ONTO A VERY ACTIVE DART TRACK. THE, THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION ADOPTED A SITE PLAN, WHICH IS THE SITE PLAN WE ARE ASKING YOU TO ADOPT AS WELL. SAYING WE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT. I THOUGHT THAT SOLVED THE PROBLEM UNTIL WE GOT TO THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS. AND I WAS INFORMED THAT YEAH, THAT SOLVED THE BUILDING PLACEMENT ISSUE, BUT IT DID NOT SOLVE THE BUFFERING ISSUE. SO HERE WE ARE AND WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS AN ALTERNATIVE LANDSCAPING PLAN TO ALLOW US TO BUILD A FENCE INSTEAD OF LANDSCAPING. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO THIS IS WHAT I JUST BASICALLY TOLD YOU. THE ONE THING TO BE I THINK IS IMPORTANT IS WE'RE TURNING OUR BACK ONTO PARNELL STREET. WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY ACCESS TO IT. YOU CANNOT GET INTO OUR PROJECT FROM PARNELL STREET. THE ONLY THING THAT PARNELL STREET DOES IS PROVIDE ACCESS TO A DART UTILITY BUILDING AT THE CORNER OF PARKER AND PARNELL. WE CANNOT ABANDON PARNELL STREET BECAUSE IT SERVES A DARK PURPOSE, SO WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THIS IS THE, THE LANDSCAPE PLAN. UH, AND THIS WAS THE APPROVED SITE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE, THE, IT WAS THE SAME CONFIGURATION AS THOUGH THE, THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE, UH, CITY PLANNING COMMISSION. AND IT SHOWS WHERE WE'D LIKE TO PUT THE EIGHT FOOT SOLID FENCE. IT'S A DECORATIVE FENCE. IT IS MADE OUT OF WOOD, IT IS SOLID. IT WILL PROVIDE BUFFERING BETWEEN US AND THE RAILROAD TRACK, BUT IT'S NOT THE LANDSCAPING THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS JUST A BLOW UP SHOWING WHAT, WHAT THE FENCE WILL LOOK LIKE. SO IT'S A TWO-SIDED FENCE, SO IT'S ATTRACTIVE ON BOTH SIDES. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO THIS IS AN INTERESTING SLIDE. YOU KNOW WHAT, LOOK CLOSELY AT THIS, YOU'LL SEE WHY PARNELL STREET IS SO WEIRD. DO YOU NOTICE THAT THE ACCESS TO PARNELL STREET IS BEHIND THE GATE? SO, UH, IT'S A VERY DANGEROUS INTERSECTION. THE CITY DOES NOT WANT US TO USE THAT, BUT WE CANNOT ABANDON IT. I'VE NEVER SEEN A STREET WHERE THE ONLY ACCESS TO IT IS BEHIND A SAFETY BARRIER THAT KEEPS YOU, WANTS TO KEEP YOU AWAY FROM IT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE GOING DOWN PARNELL STREET. WE HAVE AN ELEVATED RAILROAD TRACK NEXT TO US, AND THEN WE HAVE OUR SITE. PARNELL STREET IS WIDER THAN AN ALLEY, BUT SHORT, BUT NARROWER THAN A STREET. THE CITY DEEMED THAT WE DO NOT NEED TO PROVIDE ANY MORE RIGHT OF WAY THERE. AND WHEN WE TALKED TO 'EM, WE HAVE ROOM FOR A SIDEWALK OR LANDSCAPING. THEY SAID WE'D PREFER A SIDEWALK BECAUSE THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE, ALLOW PEDESTRIANS TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE ARE PUTTING SOME, UH, SOME HOMES HERE, BUT THEY, THEY DO NOT WANT TO SEE VEHICLES USING IT. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING NO ACCESS TO IT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THIS IS THE CULPRIT RIGHT HERE. THIS IS THE DARK BUILDING THAT CANNOT GO AWAY. SO WE CANNOT ABANDON THE STREET, WHICH BRINGS US TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY. UM, CAN, CAN YOU GO BACK A FEW SLIDES? I WANNA GO BACK TO THE SITE PLAN TO ADDRESS COMMISSIONER HAYDEN'S QUESTION ABOUT THIS ONE. SO WHY CAN'T WE MAKE IT FIT? WELL, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, BUT IT'S ALL MATH. SO ONE THING YOU'LL NOTICE ABOUT THIS, ALL OUR HOMES FACE INTO OPEN SPACE, WHETHER IT'S THE STREET IN THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER [02:00:01] OR INTERIOR, THEY FACE INTO A, A, WHAT WE'D CALL A MUSE. WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR A FIRE LANE, UH, BETWEEN US AND PARNELL. AND UH, IN ORDER TO MAKE EVERYTHING FIT, WE WOULD HAVE TO SHRINK THE USABLE OPEN SPACE IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR PROPERTY. LOSE A COUPLE OF UNITS TO DO THAT. UM, AND WE THINK IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO, TO DO OPEN SPACE IN WHERE THE RESIDENTS WILL APPRECIATE IT RATHER THAN IN AN ESSENTIALLY AN ALLEY. THE CITY DOESN'T WANT US TO DRIVE DOWN. ANYWAY, TIMING'S PERFECT. UH, I THINK I, I SAID MY PIECE. UH, I HOPE YOU CAN SUPPORT THIS. THE PLAN, CITY PLANNING COMMISSION'S ALREADY SUPPORTED NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE BECAUSE WE ALSO HAD TO DO A ADOPT A SITE PLAN FOR THE, THE PARKER STREET. SO, UM, THIS IS THE GI THE PROJECT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING TO CONSULTANTS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, UM, HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE LAST STEP. ALL WE'RE ASKING IS TO REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR, UH, PROVIDING LANDSCAPING ALONG PARNELL STREET, WHICH SERVES AS AN ALLEY AND, UH, DOESN'T TAKE ANY TRAFFIC. ALLOW US TO PUT THAT INSIDE THE PROPERTY INSTEAD WHERE EVERYBODY CAN ACTUALLY ENJOY IT. AND, UM, UH, MR. IRWIN SAID HE HAS NO OBJECTION TO THIS. I HOPE YOU DON'T EITHER. I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD FOR THE APPLICANT? MS. HAYDEN? I GUESS THIS IS MORE OF A STATEMENT THAN A QUESTION, BUT I I AM, I'M GLAD THAT YOU CLARIFIED THE FACT THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A FIRE LANE ON THE BACKSIDE BECAUSE I SAW A LOT OF ROOM BACK THERE AND I WONDERED WHY YOU COULDN'T GO AHEAD AND DO LANDSCAPING. PLUS THE FACT THAT THERE, THE DARK LINE BACK THERE IS ACTUALLY SLIGHTLY ELEVATED AND THAT STREET IS ESSENTIALLY A, A ONE-WAY ALLEY IT LOOKS LIKE. SO, OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD TO THE APPLICANT? OKAY, SO, UH, I, I'M, I'M PROBABLY GONNA SUPPORT THIS, UM, BUT I, I DON'T, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE RHETORICAL, BUT I'M GONNA UNDERSTAND YOU SAID ALL THE UNITS ARE THESE APARTMENTS OR CONDOMINIUMS? IT'S, THEY'RE, IT'S MULTI-FAMILY, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE TOWN HOME STYLES. SO EACH ONE WALK AND TALK. SO MULTI-STORY TOWN HOME, LIKE TWO OR THREE LEVELS. YOU COME IN AND YOU RENT THE THREE STORY UNIT. OKAY. UH, EACH ONE OF THEM, WHEN YOU OPEN THE FRONT DOOR, YOU'RE LOOKING AT GREEN SPACE. ON THE ONES ON THE PERIMETER, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A STREET SCAPE WITH STOOPS, WITH LANDSCAPING TREES AND EVERYTHING. OKAY, I GET ALL THAT. ALRIGHT, SO I I'M GETTING A FEELING INTERIOR ONES FACE TO OPEN SPACE IN THE, IN THE, SO ALONG THAT, THAT, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THE, UH, I GUESS IT'S THE NORTH ALONG PARNELL YES. ON THE INSIDE OF THE PROPERTY, THE RESIDENTS, THEY'RE NOT HOMEOWNERS THE RESIDENTS, RIGHT? CORRECT. OKAY. THEY'RE GONNA SEE A FENCE. THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY GREENERY ALONG THE FENCE ON THE INSIDE. UM, THERE COULD BE, BUT IT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT PROPOSING IT. THAT SEEMS A LOT OF NON-GREEN SPACE WHEN IT COULD BE. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO HAVE YOU REWORK IT AND I, WE KEEP MIND. I'M OKAY. I'M FINE WITH THE FENCE. I THINK THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE THE SECURITY AND OTHERWISE, 'CAUSE OTHERWISE THERE'S MISCHIEF ALONG PARNELL. RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NEXT TO A DART SPACE, YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ALL THAT. SO JUST ONE SECOND. I HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND, BUT OUR BUILDINGS ARE TALLER THAN 30 FEET. OH. HENCE WHY YOU WANT NINE FEET OR EIGHT? WELL, IT'S 36 FEET, BUT WHEN YOU GET OVER 30 FEET, YOUR, YOUR FIRE LANE GOES FROM 20 FEET TO 26 FEET. OH. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S CAUSING THE PROBLEM. AND A FIRE LANE MEANS YOU CANNOT HAVE VEGETATION. WELL, UH, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT, MAKE A GREEN WALL OR SOMETHING THERE, BUT WE CAN'T PUT A BED THERE BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING OUTTA ROOM. OKAY. OKAY. I'M, I'M, I'LL PONDER WHAT YOU'VE SAID. I'M JUST IMAGINING, UH, JUST A LAW WALL AND CERTAINLY IT'S GONNA BE A QUALITY FENCE AND ALL THAT, BUT IT'S GONNA BE A VERY DECORATIVE FENCE YOU SAW FROM THERE. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST A, A CEDAR FENCE. I GOT YOU. THE INTENT IS TO HAVE A DECORATIVE WITH, WITH THE BOARDS BEING HORIZONTAL RATHER THAN, THAN VERTICAL. UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE, IT'S JUST FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSE THE SERVICE AREA TO THE HOUSES. YEP. I GET YOU. NOTHING'S GONNA OPEN TO IT, IN OTHER WORDS. RIGHT. THEY ALL OPEN INSIDE. YOU'RE GONNA COME IN AND PULL INTO YOUR GARAGE AND THEN GET IN. I GOTCHA. WHEN YOU WANT TO LEAVE YOUR UNIT, YOU'RE GONNA OPEN UP AND LOOK AT YOUR NEIGHBORS. GOTCHA. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU MS. HAYDEN. THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK. SO THAT, THAT SECTION THAT FACES THAT FENCE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THOSE ARE GARAGES BASICALLY THAT'S WHERE THE, THE PEOPLE WILL DRIVE AROUND. THE GARAGE WILL OPEN. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THAT'S A WINDOW TO THE BACKYARD. THEY'RE GONNA FENCE TOWARDS THE GREEN SPACE. RIGHT, RIGHT. SO THOSE ARE BARR GARAGES BACK THERE. YEAH. IT'S GONNA BE VERY ATTRACTIVE. I, I DO BELIEVE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. ARY. ALRIGHT HERE, UH, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND THE APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 [02:05:01] DASH 0 7 3 ON APPLICATION OF ROB BALDWIN GRANT, THE REQUEST OF THIS APPLICANT FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS CONTAINED IN ARTICLE 10 OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AS AMENDED. BECAUSE OUR EVALUATION OF THE PROPERTY AND TESTIMONY SHOWS THAT ONE, STRICT COMPLIANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS ARTICLE WILL UNREASONABLY BURDEN THE USE OF THE PROPERTY. TWO, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. AND THREE, THE REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT IMPOSED BY A SITE-SPECIFIC LANDSCAPE PLAN APPROVED BY THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION OR CITY COUNCIL. I FURTHER MOVE THAT THE FOLLOWING CONDITION BE IMPOSED TO FURTHER THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE. COMPLIANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF ALL SUBMITTED SITE PLANS ARE REQUIRED. IT'S BEEN MOVED IN BDA 2 3 4 0 7 3 TO GRANT THE REQUEST BY MR. N. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. SECOND. BY MS. HAYDEN. MR. NRI DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? UH, THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. YEAH, I THINK YOU'VE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB WITH THIS PRESENTATION. YOU'VE EXPLAINED THE RATIONALE, UH, AS TO WHY, UH, THAT ADDITIONAL SPACE IS NEEDED PRIMARILY FOR A FIRE LANE, ET CETERA. UM, YOU KNOW, AND AS FAR AS LIKE ADDING GREENERY OR SHRUBBERY, PERHAPS YOU COULD COVER THE FENCE WITH AN IVY OR SOME SORT OF, UH, OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S WHY I'M SUPPORTING THIS. I THINK YOU DID A GREAT JOB. THANK YOU MR. JANNER. MS. AEN, UM, I AGREE WITH WHAT MR. NRI SAID. IN ADDITION, THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE, UM, THERE, LET'S SEE, AS RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY, THERE'S REALLY NO RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY AS TO THIS FENCES. IT IS JUST A DARK RAIL. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION HEARING, NO DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. UM, THE CHAIR WILL CALL FOR THE VOTE. MS. HAYDEN. AYE. MS. DAVIS? AYE. MR. HAITZ AYE. MR. N AYE. MR. CHAIR? AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES FIVE TO ZERO IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 3. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT UNANIMOUSLY BY FIVE TO ZERO VOTE. GRANTS THE REQUEST. YOU'LL GET A LETTER, UH, FROM OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR SHORTLY. THANK YOU SIR. NEXT CASE FOR THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT IS BD 2 3 4 DASH 76 2 3 4 DASH SEVEN SIX. THIS IS AT 5 5 0 3 MONTICELLO AVENUE. HE'S THE APPLICANT HERE. HOW ARE YOU? I'M GOOD, THANK YOU. GOOD. VERY GOOD. WE'LL GET CLOSER TO THE MIC. YOU ARE GOOD. ASK EVERYONE TO DO. ALRIGHT. SO THANK YOU. JUST HOLD ONE SECOND. UM, MS. BOARD SECRETARY, IF YOU TELL ME, UH, HOW MANY SPEAKERS WE HAVE SIGNED UP FOR THIS CASE? WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS AND OUR SUPPORT. ALRIGHT, AND ARE YOU BOTH THE APPLICANTS? YES. OKAY, VERY GOOD. ALRIGHT, OUR BOARD SECRETARY WILL SWEAR YOU IN. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? I DO, YES. DO, UM, BEFORE YOU SPEAK, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO YOU, ARE YOU BOTH SPEAKING? UH, I'LL PROBABLY TAKE A LEAD AND WELL, IF YOU BOTH SPEAK, THEN YOU GET FIVE MINUTES APIECE. IF ONE SPEAKS, YOU ONLY GET FIVE MINUTES, SO YOU SHOULD BOTH SPEAK. WE SHOULD BOTH SPEAK THAT WAY YOU CAN USE YOUR TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, PROCEED. THANK YOU. UM, AND IT WAS VERY HELPFUL THIS MORNING TO LISTEN IN ON THE BRIEFING. UM, SO, UH, I DID REALIZE AND LEARNED THAT MY PROPERTY IS LEGALLY NON-CONFORMING. IF YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME AGAIN. OH, I'M SORRY. MICHELLE STEVENS. AND THE ADDRESS IS 5 5 0 3 MONTICELLO AVENUE, PROCEED. DALLAS, TEXAS. THANK YOU. SO I DO HAVE RIGHT THIS, UM, PRESENTATION THAT WE'VE DEVELOPED TO, UM, EXPLAIN OUR BURDEN OF PROOF TO, UM, HELP UNDERSTAND WHY WE BELIEVE THAT WE CAN MINIMIZE THE RISK, UM, THAT, THAT THE OB UM, THE, UM, VISIBILITY OBSTRUCTION, UH, RULING OR REGULATION IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT. SO, UM, WE ARE AT THE, UM, MCMILLAN AND MONTICELLO. WE ARE AT THE CORNER. SO OUR FENCE DOES, WE ARE SIMPLY HERE, UM, BECAUSE WE'D LIKE TO REPLACE AN AGING FENCE. UM, WE'VE LIVED ON THE PROPERTY SINCE 2011. UM, THE FENCE WAS THERE WHEN, WHEN WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY. UM, WE IMAGINE IT TO HAVE BEEN THERE ABOUT 20 YEARS, MAYBE MORE. WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE. UM, SO THE FENCE HAS BEEN THERE QUITE SOME TIME. UH, WE'RE ASKING FOR AN EXCEPTION TO THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE AT BOTH THE DRIVE AND THE ALLEY APPROACH. UM, AND I'LL TAKE YOU TO PAGE TWO. WE HAVE FOUR KEY POINTS THAT WE'D LIKE TO DISCUSS. [02:10:01] UM, WE BELIEVE GRANTING THE REQUESTED VIS VISIBILITY TRIANGLE EXCEPTION, UM, WHICH WOULD MAINTAIN OUR FENCE POSITION AS IS, WOULD NOT BE A SAFETY HAZARD TO PEDESTRIANS OR CARS OR BICYCLES ON MCMILLAN AVENUE. FOUR KEY POINTS. UM, FIRST POINT IS, UH, THAT OUR BACKUP CAMERAS AND OUR CARS ALLOW SIGHT LINES PRIOR TO THE CAR BEING, UM, ON THE SIDEWALK OR IN THE STREET. YOU'LL SEE SOME PHOTOS, UM, IN THE NEXT, UH, PAGE WHERE WE CAN DEMONSTRATE, WHERE WE CAN SEE OBSTRUCTIONS, EXCUSE ME, WELL BEFORE, UM, OUR CARS ARE IN THE SIDEWALK OR THE STREET. WE ALSO HAVE A CON, UH, CONVEX OR FISHEYE MIRROR THAT ALLOWS US FURTHER VISIBILITY. UM, AND IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, MOUNTED ON OUR EXISTING FENCE. THAT GIVES US JUST ANOTHER BOOST. UM, THERE'S ALSO A FOUR-WAY STOP SIGN AT MCMILLAN AND MONTICELLO. UM, IT'S APPROXIMATELY A HUNDRED FEET FROM OUR DRIVEWAY APPROACH ON MCMILLAN, WHICH MEANS THAT CARS ARE GOING MORE SLOWLY THAN THE 30 MILES PER HOUR POSTED SPEED LIMIT, WHICH JUST FURTHER REDUCES THE RISK OF COLLISION OR ANY, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, RISK OF, UH, OF IMPACTING A P PEDESTRIAN OR A CAR AT OUR DRIVEWAY. UM, MCMILLAN IS ALSO A FAIRLY LOW TRAFFIC COUNT STREET. UM, WE GOOGLED THIS AND WE SAW THAT IT WAS ABOUT 1800 DAILY TRAFFIC COUNT ON THAT STREET, UH, COMPARED TO GREENVILLE, WHICH IS THE NEXT MAJOR PARALLEL STREET TO, UM, TO MCMILLAN, WHICH IS ABOUT 15,000 CARS A DAY. WE TRIED TO VERIFY THAT, UM, ACTUALLY THIS WEEKEND LOOKING AT THE SOURCE, AND WE CANNOT FIND THE SOURCE FOR THAT STATISTICS. SO THAT'S, UM, ANECDOTAL AT THIS POINT. I CAN'T GIVE YOU THE SOURCE OF WHERE WE, WE FOUND OUT IT WAS, IT WAS BETWEEN, UM, MOCKINGBIRD AND . I CAN'T HAVE, I CAN'T HAVE YOU DO THAT. OKAY, SHE'S SPEAKING NOW. OKAY. OTHERWISE, I HAVE TO SQUARE YOU IN AND THEN YOU TO SPEAK AND ALL THAT. SO LET'S, HE, HE'S BEEN SWORN IN. OKAY. IN 13 YEARS OF OWNING, UH, THIS PROPERTY, WE CAN ALSO, UM, SAY THAT WE HAVE HAD NO ISSUES OR SAFETY RISKS REALIZED. SO WE'VE HAD NO EVENTS WHERE A BEST PEDESTRIAN WALKING A DOG, A BICYCLIST ON THE PATH OR A CAR COMING IN EITHER DIRECTION, UM, HAS BEEN ENCOUNTERED. UM, AND, UM, ANY COLLISION HAPPENING. SO, VERY HAPPY TO SAY THAT WE, WE UNDERSTAND THE SPIRIT OF THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE. UM, SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE WERE TRYING TO MINIMIZE RISK WITH THAT, AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT AS WELL. UM, WE DID CONTACT, UM, THE MAJORITY OF THE NEIGHBORS, UH, IN THE LIST OF, OF PROPERTIES THAT YOU GUYS SENT THE NOTICE TO. I BELIEVE THERE WERE 29 HOMES THAT INCLUDED OUR OWN, UH, AND WE DID EITHER CONTACT VIA TEXT MESSAGE, EMAIL, OR A PERSONAL DISCUSSION. UH, NO ONE OPPOSED OUR PROPOSED WORK TO REPLACE THAT EXISTING FENCE. THE EXISTING FENCE IS JUST AGING. UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S A FIRE HAZARD. I DID HEAR THAT THIS MORNING, BUT I THINK IT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST OLD. IT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF. IT COULD BLOW DOWN. IT COULD, YOU KNOW, FALL DOWN. UH, SO WE, WE WANNA TAKE CARE OF THAT, MAINTAIN OUR PROPERTY, KEEP OUR PROPERTY LOOKING GOOD, AND THE VALUE OF OUR HOME, UH, WHERE IT SHOULD BE. SO ON THIS PAGE YOU'LL SEE JUST THE AERIAL VIEW. I THINK YOU'VE SEEN THAT IN OTHER EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED FROM, UM, THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM. UM, AND YOU'LL SEE THE FOUR-WAY STOP THERE. WE'RE AT THE CORNER OF MONTICELLO MCMILLAN. UM, AND ON THE NEXT PAGE YOU'LL SEE SOME PHOTOS WHERE WE HAVE KIND OF RECREATED THE VIEW, UM, FROM OUR CAR'S REAR VIEW CAMERA. SO THIS IS A VIEW, THIS FIRST PICTURE AT THE TOP, AND HOPEFULLY YOU'VE GOT, UH, AN ABILITY TO LOOK AT THAT CLOSEUP IN YOUR OWN PACKETS. BECAUSE THIS, THIS PICTURE IS FAIRLY SMALL ON THE SCREEN, BUT, UH, THE REAR VIEW CAMERA, UM, THIS IS BEFORE THE CAR IS EVEN ON THE SIDEWALK. SO WHERE I'M PULLING OUT OF THE GARAGE, I CAN SEE MY HUSBAND CIRCLED THERE IN BLUE. UM, HE'S ABOUT 20. HE'S AT THE MARKER OF ABOUT 20 FEET FROM THE DRIVEWAY APPROACH. AND I CAN SEE HIM, UH, WELL BEFORE MY CAMP. MY CAR IS ON THE SIDEWALK. SO I HAVE GREAT VISIBILITY AND OBVIOUSLY THAT HAPPENS IN EITHER DIRECTION. UM, AND IN THE, IN THE PHOTOS BELOW, THERE'S TWO PHOTOS BELOW THAT ONE WHERE, UM, IT'S THE SAME, UM, PO CAR POSITION, BUT IT'S NOTING THAT THE PEDESTRIAN AND ANY APPROACHING CAR CAN ALSO SEE MY CAR BEFORE IT'S ON THE SIDEWALK OR, UM, ON THE, ON THE STREET. SO THAT JUST GIVES YOU SOME PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF WHAT WE CAN SEE, WHEN WE CAN SEE IT. UM, AND AT THE SAME TIME, I CAN SEE A PEDESTRIAN OR A CAR. THEY CAN SEE MY, MY CAR AS WELL. ON THE NEXT PAGE IS THE, I CALL IT THE FISHEYE [02:15:01] MIRROR. I GUESS THE PROPER NAME IS A CONVEX MIRROR. UM, IT'S MOUNTED ON THE SIDE OF THE FENCE NEAREST TO THE ALLEYWAY. UM, IT DOES ENHANCE VISIBILITY GREATLY. UM, WE ACTUALLY REALLY LIKE THIS BECAUSE WE CAN SEE WAY DOWN THE STREET PROBABLY TO PAST RIDGEDALE, PAST TO VANDERBILT. SO THAT'S ABOUT THREE STREETS DOWN, UM, GOING SOUTH. SO WE ONLY HAVE IT ON ONE SIDE. UM, BUT IT'S THE SIDE CLOSEST TO THE DRIVEWAY APPROACH. SO IT'S THE SIDE COMING AT US, UM, AND WE WOULD SEE, UM, CLOSEST, CLOSEST TO THE CAR. UM, BUT THIS PICTURE JUST SHOWS WHAT I CAN SEE FROM THE CAR, UM, OR FROM THE, UH, VEHICLE. UM, YOU CAN SEE MY CAR IN THE MIRROR. THAT'S WHAT I CAN SEE PRIOR TO THE CAR BEING ON THE SIDEWALK OR CERTAINLY IN THE STREET. I HAVE GREAT VISIBILITY DOWN THE STREET, DOWN THE SIDEWALK. UH, I CAN SEE MY HUSBAND THERE IN THAT SECOND PICTURE ON THE RIGHT, UH, VERY EASILY. WELL BEFORE, UM, THE CAR IS, UH, IN THE SIDEWAYS, UM, THE STOP SIGN ALSO ON THE PICTURE BELOW THAT. UM, SO I'M ASKING YOU TO FINISH YOUR THOUGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. AM I HAVE, AM I AT FIVE MINUTES? UH, YOU PASSED, BUT THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. YEAH, BUT I, THAT'S WANT YOU TO FINISH YOUR THOUGHT. OKAY. OR FINISH YOUR SENTENCE. OKAY. YEAH, JUST THE LAST POINT THERE IS THE STOP SIGN, WHICH, UM, IS RIGHT THERE. AND THE CARS ARE SLOWING BEFORE THEY, UM, APPROACH OR COME TO THE STOP SIGN. GREAT. YOU WANNA TAKE IT FROM THIS PAGE? AND IF YOU WOULD PLEASE, UH, DID YOU SWEAR BOTH OF THEM IN MARY OR, OKAY, GOOD. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU JUST GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AGAIN, AND THEN YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES. I'M JOHN CROWLEY FROM 55 0 3 MONTICELLO. UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, PAGE FIVE, UH, YOU CAN SEE THE MAGNOLIA TREES THERE. IF WE DID THE 20 FOOT TRIANGLE, WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OUT THREE OF THOSE MAGNOLIA TREES COMING ACROSS. WE HAVE A VERY SHORT DRIVEWAY. WE SIT JUST A FEW FEET. OUR GARAGE, THAT'S JUST A FEW FEET IN FROM THE STREET, WE INHERITED THAT. WE DIDN'T BUILD IT, IT WAS GRANDFATHERED IN. AND THEN THE FENCE ON THE ALLEY SIDE DOESN'T CONNECT ANYTHING BUT TO THE FENCE. SO IF IT, YOU NEEDED SPACE THERE, YOU WOULD LITERALLY LOSE THAT. NOW WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE, UM, JUST PAST HER CAR IS THE EDGE OF A MECHANICAL GATE THAT COMES OUT WITH THE 20 FOOT, UM, UH, VISIBILITY TRIANGLE. WE WOULD LOSE THAT GATE AND THE SECURITY IT PROVIDES BACK TO THE GARAGE AND BACK TO THE YARD. AND THIS FENCE IS AROUND A SWIMMING POOL. SO THAT'S ANOTHER LEVEL OF PROTECTION THAT WE NEED. AND I THINK THAT'S, YEAH. OH YEAH. AND WE, WE HAVE SUPPORT FROM, UM, UH, OUR NEIGHBORS. WE SPOKE TO OUR NEIGHBORS. NO ONE SAW A PROBLEM WITH IT. UM, AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY, OH. AND WE GOT THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, THEIR SUPPORT. THEY DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS, WITH OUR SUGGESTION EITHER. ANYTHING ELSE? YEAH, I WOULD JUST ADD ONE THING ON THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT. I TO MY WIFE, . I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, YOU YIELD YOUR, THE BALANCE OF YOUR TIME. YES. YES. OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND WRAP IT UP. I WOULD JUST SAY ONE THING THAT WE, WE REALIZE CD NINE CAN ONLY APPROVE LIKE MATERIALS, HEIGHT, THOSE KINDS OF CONFORM, YOU KNOW, COMPLIANCE. THEY OBVIOUSLY SAID YOU'VE GOTTA GET THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS TO APPROVE THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE. UM, SO I'M JUST NOTING THOUGH THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. UH, WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT, GET PERMISSION AND NOT ASK FOR FORGIVENESS HERE. UM, AND THAT'S WHAT I SAY THAT RESONATES WITH SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. WELL, YEAH, I GET IT. BECAUSE I'VE SEEN MY NEIGHBORS DO THE OPPOSITE MANY AND IT DOESN'T COME OUT WELL. BUT I WOULD SAY ON THE TREES AND THE GATE, I KNOW THAT'S ALL PERSONAL AND YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT. CORRECT. I GET IT. I GET IT. I'M JUST, I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW WE'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT THOSE TREES AND ABOUT OUR GATE. SO WE LOVE OUR PROPERTY. WE ARE TOO, BUT THERE BOUNDARIES TO WHAT WE SH UTILIZE AS PART OF OUR CRITERIA. WE UNDERSTAND. YEAH. WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT. YEAH, I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT BY MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, MS. HAYDEN. UM, I JUST WANNA CONFIRM, I KNOW IT WAS IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU PROVIDED THAT YOU'VE NOT IN THE, I THINK 13 YEARS YOU'VE LIVED THERE. YOU HAVEN'T CON YOU HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED ANY, YOU KNOW, NEAR OR MISS OR ANY, UH, SAFETY OR TRAFFIC HAZARD? NO. WHERE THE LO FENCE IS LOCATED. I TOLD, I SWORE IN THAT I TELL THE TRUTH. WE HAD ONE SKATEBOARDER COME OFF THE SIDEWALL BEHIND US IN THE STREET, ONE SKATEBOARDER. AND, UM, IT WASN'T A NEAR, IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T A NEAR MISS. IT WASN'T NOT A NEAR MISS. IT WAS NOT A NEAR MISS. THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S BICYCLES, THERE'S SKATEBOARDERS, THERE ARE, THERE ARE, THERE'S TRAFFIC. AND WE HAVE BIKE LANES [02:20:01] ON BOTH SIDES OF MCMILLAN. SO THE TRAFFIC, I NOTICED THAT, YEAH, NO, WE HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BOTH RETIRED. MY HUSBAND'S BEEN RETIRED FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS. YOU KNOW, HE HAS A 12-YEAR-OLD CAR WITH 60,000 MILES ON IT. SO WE, THAT JUST GIVES YOU EVIDENCE THAT WE'RE NOT, WE, WE DON'T GO OUT OF THE HOUSE MUCH. BUT, UM, I'M RETIRED FOR ABOUT A YEAR OR SO. THE USE OF OUR CAR IS CHANGED. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT REALLY WE'VE LIVED THERE YES. FOR 13 YEARS AND, AND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 20. OKAY. AND AND YOU'RE PROPOSING TO PUT THE NEW FENCE EXACTLY IN THE SAME PLACE AS SEAL ROOM? YES. OKAY. YES. SIX FOOT CEDAR, UM, FENCE, JUST EXACTLY IN THE SAME PLACE. OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE PANEL? I I, I COMPLIMENT YOU FOR ONE. UM, HAVING DUE DILIGENCE, RESPECTING THE PROCESS, UH, ASKING PERMISSION AS OPPOSED TO FORGIVENESS, UM, FOR ENLISTING NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT, UM, FOR SHOWING US EASILY READ PICTURES. UH, I WILL TELL YOU, WE'RE VERY, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS VERY SENSITIVE TO THIS VISIBILITY TRIANGLE ISSUE. WE SEE IT COMES UP TO US ALL THE TIME, AND WE'RE VERY HESITANT TO GRANT EXCEPTIONS BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC, THE SAFETY ELEMENT. OUR CRITERIA IS THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT CONSTITUTE TRAFFIC HAZARD. AND WE ARE, UM, I READ THAT 'CAUSE THAT'S OUR CRITERIA. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. I KNOW THERE'S THIS, YOU WANT THE GATE, YOU WANT THE TREE THAT, ALL THAT. I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT OUR CRITERIA IS STRICTLY, UH, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT CONSTITUTE A TRAFFIC HAZARD. BUT I WANT TO COMPLIMENT YOU AGAIN ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT YOU'VE GONE THROUGH. FORTHRIGHTLY YOU RESPECT THE PROCESS, IT'S BURDENSOME TO COME AND SPEND A DAY AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING, BUT YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY THIS MORNING TO HEAR SOME OF THE CONCERNS OR HESITATIONS AND THAT SORT OF THING. AND YOU EVEN HEARD MS. HAYDEN HAVE YOU SAY ON THE RECORD, THERE HASN'T BEEN ISSUES BECAUSE, UM, WE WANNA MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THAT'S PART OF OUR CRITERIA. SO THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. OTHER DISCUSSION, OR EXCUSE ME, OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? THE CHAIR TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION, MS. HAYDEN, THERE'S TWO MOTIONS. MS. HAYDEN, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 DASH SEVEN SIX ON APPLICATION OF MICHELLE STEVENS GRANT THE REQUEST TO MAINTAIN ITEMS IN THE 20 FOOT VISIBILITY TRIANGLE ON THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY, A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THE VISUAL OBSTRUCTION REGULATION CONTAINED IN THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AS AMENDED. BECAUSE OUR EVALUATION OF THE PROPERTY AND THE TESTIMONY SHOWS THAT THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT CONSTITUTE A TRAFFIC HAZARD, I FURTHER MOVE THAT THE FOLLOWING CONDITION BE IMPOSED TO FURTHER THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AS AMENDED. COMPLIANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF ALL SUBMITTED PLANS IS REQUIRED IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 6. UH, MS. HAYDEN HAS MOVED TO GRANT THE REQUEST FOR THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND? SECONDED BY MR. KOVI, MS. HAYDEN DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. UM, I'M MISS STICKLER FOR THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE AND, UM, THE FACT THAT REALLY WE CAN ONLY LOOK AT THE FACT, UH, WHETHER IT'S, UH, WHERE THERE WILL CONSTITUTE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR NOT, THAT'S THE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE TO GO BY. SO ALL OF THIS INFORMATION THAT YOU PROVIDED WAS VERY, VERY HELPFUL. AND ONE THING IN PARTICULAR, UM, THE FACT THAT THERE'S THIS FOUR-WAY, STOP SIGN RIGHT THERE, AND THE VEHICLES WILL ASSUME WON'T BE GOING THAT FAST ONCE THEY HIT THAT STOP SIGN. THAT, THAT WAS ONE OF THE DECIDING FACTORS TO ME, AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES WITH IT IN THE 13 YEARS AS YOU'VE LIVED THERE. SO THAT'S WHY I'M VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS. THANK YOU, MS. HAYDEN. UH, MS. HAYDEN, UH, MR. HAITZ, UH, I CONCUR WITH MS. HAYDEN. UH, I APPRECIATE YOUR VERY COMPREHENSIVE PRESENTATION AS NOTED BY OTHER PEOPLE. VISIBILITY TRIANGLES USUALLY DON'T MEET WITH A LOT OF FAVOR BY THIS BOARD. UM, YOU, YOU LIVE, I THINK IN, YOU'RE AT THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE OF VISIBILITY TRIANGLES, I THINK. UH, SO, UH, WE DO APPRECIATE THE COMPREHENSIVENESS OF YOUR PRESENTATION. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION HEARING, NO DISCUSSION. THE CHAIR WOULD CALL, UH, FOR, UH, FOR THE VOTE, MS. BOARD SECRETARY, MR. MARY AYE. MS. DAVIS? AYE. MS. HAYDEN AYE. MR. OVITZ AYE. MR. CHAIR? AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES FIVE TO ZERO IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 3 4 DASH 76, THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY BY A VOTE OF FIVE TO ZERO GRANTS, THE REQUEST FOR THE, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS OR 20 FOOT VISIBILITY TRIANGLE FOR THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY. SECOND MOTION, MS. HAYDEN, [02:25:01] UM, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 DASH SEVEN SIX ON APPLICATION OF MICHELLE STEVENS GRANT THE REQUEST TO RE, TO MAINTAIN ITEMS IN THE 20 FOOT VISIBILITY TRIANGLE AT THE INTERSECTION OF A STREET AND AN ALLEY AS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THE VISUAL OBSTRUCTION REGULATION CONTAINED IN THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AS AMENDED. BECAUSE OUR EVALUATION OF THE PROPERTY AND THE TESTIMONY SHOWS THAT THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT CONSTITUTE A TRAFFIC HAZARD, I FURTHER THE MOVE THAT THE FOLLOWING CONDITION BE IMPOSED TO FURTHER THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AS AMENDED. COMPLIANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF ALL SUBMITTED PLANS IN REGARDS TO THE PORTION AND VIOLATION OF THE VISUAL OBSTRUCTION TRIANGLE ARE REQUIRED IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 3 4 0 7 6. MS. HAYDEN HAS MOVED TO GRANT THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE FOR THE INTERSECTION OF THE STREET AND THE ALLEY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND BY MR. HAITZ, UH, DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MS. HAYDEN, FOR THE SAME REASONS BEFORE, I APPRECIATE THE TIME AND EFFORT YOU PUT INTO THIS. AND, AND I DIDN'T MENTION THIS EARLIER, BUT THE, UM, THE, UM, BUY-IN FROM THE NEIGHBORS AND THE, AND THE EFFORT THAT YOU WENT TO TO GET THE SUPPORT FROM YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE TESTIMONY FROM THEM SAYING THAT THEY DIDN'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH THIS AS WELL. MR. HAITZ. UM, NOTHING FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION HEARING. NO DISCUSSION. THE BOARD SECRETARY WILL CALL FOR THE VOTE. MR. MARY AYE. MS. HAYDEN? AYE. MS. DAVIS? AYE. MR. HAITZ AYE. MR. CHAIR? AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES 5 2 0 IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 3 4 DASH 76. THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY BY A VOTE OF FIVE TO ZERO GRANTS THE REQUEST FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE FOR THE INTERSECTION OF THE STREET AND THE ALLEY. YOU'LL GET A LETTER FROM OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR SHORTLY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I'M GONNA GO OUT AND CRY. CRY NOW. YOU SHOULD CHEER. THANK YOU. OKAY. WHAT'S THAT? OH, ALRIGHT. NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA. UH, WE HAVE TWO REMAINING. LA NEXT ITEM IS BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 7 BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 7 7. THIS IS AT 3 2 1 16 PEORIA AVENUE. IS THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE COME FORWARD. GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR. GOOD AFTERNOON. VERY GOOD. UH, OUR BOARD SEC FOUR OF THE FOUR BDA 2 3 4 0 7 7. HOW MANY SPEAKERS DO WE HAVE REGISTERED? WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS IN SUPPORT. OKAY. TO UH, TO HERE OR ONLINE? NO, HERE TO HERE. OKAY. AND THEY'RE BOTH IN SUPPORT? CORRECT. OKAY. ALRIGHT SIR, IF YOU WOULD, ARE YOU'RE THE APPLICANT? YES, SIR. OKAY, VERY GOOD. IF YOU WOULD GIVE, UH, YOU'D BE SWORN IN BY OUR BOARD SECRETARY, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? I SIR. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. MY NAME IS, UH, BLA GARZA. AND THE ADDRESS IS, UH, 3 2 1 6 PEORIA STREET. SAY YOUR NAME AGAIN, SIR. BLA BLAS GARZA. BLAS BLA, BLAS GARZA? YES, SIR. OKAY. ALRIGHT, PROCEED. YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES, SIR. OKAY. SO WE ARE HERE ASKING FOR A, A SPECIAL RECEPTION FOR A FRONT FENCE, WHICH WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. THE HEIGHT IS, UH, SIX UH, FEET AND SIX INCHES. AND, UH, PERSONA, YOU KNOW, WE ALLOW THE FOUR FEET, SO WE ARE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, TWO FEET AND SIX INCHES SMALLER HEIGHT AND, UH, LESS TIMES. I, I THINK THAT YOU REMEMBER THAT WE CAME OVER HERE WITH, UH, OUR PLANS AND WE, WE ALREADY REVISE OUR, OUR SIDE PLAN AND, UH, WE COMPLETE WITH, UH, 2020 FOOT, UH, VISIBILITY TRIANGLE AT THE FRONT OF THE DRIVEWAY. EH, WE ALREADY WITH, UH, 100% OPACITY. SO AT THIS TIME WE UH, WE ARE JUST ASKING FOR, UH, THE HEIGHT REGULATIONS, SIX FEET AND SIX INCHES. SPECIAL EXCEPTION. THANK YOU, SIR. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. UM, ALRIGHT, SO IF I HEARD WHAT YOU JUST SAID, YOU SAID THAT, UM, YOU HERE, HERE WITH US TO REQUEST A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE FENCE HEIGHT. YES. THAT YOU ADJUSTED YOUR PLANS FROM LAST TIME AND THAT BECAUSE YOU ADJUSTED YOUR PLANS, YOU NO LONGER HAD AN OPACITY ISSUE, UH, OR YOU CHANGED THE OPACITY ISSUE. NO, I CAN, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT YES. YOU, YOU, WHEN YOU SAID YOU ADJUSTED YOUR PLANS, OUR, SO TELL TELL US WHAT, TELL US WHAT HAS CHANGED FROM THE LAST TIME THAT YOU WERE BEFORE THE BOARD. [02:30:01] WHEN WE REVISE THE PLANS, UH, IT NOT SHOWING WHAT WE HAVE ON THE, ON THE PROPERTY. SO, SO WE WENT, YOU KNOW, AND TAKE, UH, ALL DIMENSIONS AND OUR PLANS. IT WAS NOT LIKE WE HAVE OVER THERE. SO WE WILL REVISE OUR PLANTS. WE ARE SHOWING THE, THE FRONT FENCE IS, UH, SEVEN FEET, UH, INSIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE. AND, UH, WE, WE COMPLETE WITH, UH, 20 FEET, UH, THE FRONT, UH, UH, TRIANGLE. YEAH. VISIBILITY TRIANGLE. ALRIGHT. SO, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE WORDSMITH, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU CHANGED YOUR PLANS OR THE, THE PLANS THAT YOU PRESENTED BEFORE WERE INACCURATE. IT WHAT? INACCURATE YEAH, THAT, THAT, THAT THE PLANS THAT WE PRESENTED BEFORE. OKAY. DOES CHANGING YOUR PLANS AND HAVING THINGS THAT WERE INACCURATE DIFFERENT ISSUES ENTIRELY? YES SIR. OKAY. SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WHAT YOU SUBMITTED BEFORE WAS INACCURATE? YES, SIR. OKAY. AND SO WHAT YOU'RE SUBMITTING THIS TIME ARE ACCURATE? YES. OKAY. UM, IF I RECALL, AND WHAT IF I RECALL THE LAST TIME YOU BEFORE THE BOARD AND WHICH WAS, LET ME LOOK. APRIL 16TH, 2024. IF I RECALL, YOU HAD A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY THIS TIME. DID IT DISAPPEAR OR IS THAT SUPPORT STILL THERE? WE SUBMIT A SMALL LIST, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME NEIGHBORS. UH, I THINK THAT, UH, CAN WE SEE THE MARIO? I DON'T DUNNO. FIND OUT. OKAY. IF WE WOULD, HE WANTS, HE WANTS TO SUBMIT THE EVIDENCE FOR SIX PAGES. YEAH, WE'LL TAKE IT. THANK YOU. OKAY. YES. IS THIS SOMETHING HE'S SUBMITTING TODAY OR HE IS SUBMITTED BEFORE TODAY, SO SUBMIT ADMITTED TODAY. OKAY. AND DO WE HAVE TO MAKE AN, A SUSPENSION OF RULES FOR THAT? OKAY. UH, THE CHAIR WOULD REQUEST THE BOARD SUSPENDING THE RULES ON EE EVIDENCE SUBMISSION. I, I SO MOVE. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. AND SECONDED. DISCUSSION. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED? OKAY. UNANIMOUSLY UH, RULES ARE SUSPENDED. OKAY. THERE WE GO. NOW WE GOTTA GO DO EVERYTHING LEGAL FOR HIM. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO TELL US WHAT THIS IS. THAT'S, UH, SOME, UH, DOCUMENTS, UH, FROM THE OWNER THAT HE WENT TO, SOME, UH, NEIGHBORS. AND, UH, WE ARE UH, THEY APPROVED THE KNOW THAT, UH, THIS FENCE, THE HEIGHT AND, AND IT IS NOT AFFECT, UH, NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES FROM THEM. AND WE ARE SHOWING SOME, UH, THE OWNER, UH, HE TOOK, UH, SOME, UH, PICTURES FROM AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S SHOWING SOME, UH, FENCES LIKE, UH, EIGHT FEET HIGH. BUT, UH, IT'S LIKE A DIFFERENT, UH, MATERIAL THAT WE HAVE ON, ON OUR PROPERTY. AND IS THIS ON PEORIA? UH, ARE THESE PICTURES ON PEORIA? SOME AROUNDS AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. OKAY. YES IT IS OR IS NOT? WELL THE 3 32 OF SIX WHERE ON THE MIC. OKAY. SO I WAS ASKING MS. DAVIS ABOUT, ABOUT THESE, THESE ARE AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR ON THE STREET OR BOTH? HE THE OWNER, HE SAYS THAT ON PEORIA STREET. OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT, WELL I'M PASSING THIS DOWN SO THAT WE CAN ABSORB IT AND OUR, WE'LL OUR BOARD SECRETARY WILL KEEP THESE 'CAUSE IT'S EVIDENCE NOW. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, ALRIGHT. UH, UH, WHAT WE'RE HEARING TO OUR, OUR PROCESS IS TO TA IS TO MAKE A DECISION TODAY BASED ON THE EVIDENCE PROVIDED TODAY, BUT PART OF OUR BROADER PERSPECTIVE GOES TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HISTORY. AND SO IT REFERENCES THE CASE THAT CAME TO US WITH THREE REQUESTS ON APRIL 16TH. IT WAS VERY DISCONCERTING AND PART OF THE REASON THE BOARD, UH, DENIED THE CASE BACK IN APRIL WAS WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER THE PLANS WERE ACCURATE, INACCURATE, WHETHER THERE WAS A QUESTION OF THE, THE LOCATION OF THE FENCE, THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE VIS-A-VIS THE STREET, THE CURB, ALL THOSE SORT OF THINGS INVOLVED. SO, BUT, UH, FOR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING TODAY, IS THAT THE CORRECT LOCATION OF THE FENCE IS OUTSIDE OF THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? UH, THAT, LET ME SEE. THE, THE PLAN, IF WE SEE, IF YOU SEE THE, IF YOU [02:35:01] SEE THE SIDE PLAN, SO WE HAVE A PROPERTY LINE AND, AND THE FENCE IS, UH, SEVEN FEET INSIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE. AND WHEN YOU, UH, BUT THE STAFF WHO'S, WHO IS THE PLANNER ON THIS? MS. JORDAN, WOULD YOU PULL UP? I THINK IT'S PAGE ONE 17. I THINK THAT'S THE SITE PLAN. HOLD ON ONE SECOND, SIR. YES, SIR. SO WHAT I'M ZEROING IN ON AS SOON AS THEY BRING IT UP IS I'M, I'M INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE WHAT IS SUBMITTED IS ACCURATE. YES. 'CAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO GET IN A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE RESPONDING TO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT 100% ACCURATE. SO I'M GOING BACK. THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. CAN YOU, CAN YOU ZERO EXACTLY. AND CAN YOU ZOOM IN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN ZOOM IN? 'CAUSE I'VE GOT OLD EYES. THAT'S MY WIFE SAYS ALL THE TIME. WHAT, UH, YOU PUT IT HOWEVER YOU CAN SO THAT WE CAN SEE THE FRONTAGE. WHAT WE'RE INTERESTED IN IS THE PROPERTY LINE VIS-A-VIS THE FENCE. CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ZEROING IN ON. OKAY. MS. HAYDEN, I NEED YOUR EYES ON THIS. SO THAT'S THE PROPERTY LINE THERE. OKAY. MS. HAYDEN, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? SO WE'RE LOOKING, IF YOU CAN SEE UP HERE, SIR, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT YOU SUBMITTED RIGHT NOW. YES, SIR. SO GIVE US A SECOND TO RELOOK AT THIS AGAIN. OKAY. SO THE HASHED LINE, MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATORS THE PROPERTY LINE, IT SAYS PROPERTY LINE. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THEN THE QUESTION IS, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THAT AND THE FENCE IS SEVEN FEET? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING? AND I SEE SIX FEET, SIX INCHES. RIGHT? THAT'S THE HEIGHT. RIGHT. BUT I DON'T SEE DISTANCE. YES. OVER ON THE LEFT YOU CAN SEE SOME HASHED DISTANCES, BUT I CAN'T READ THEM. CAN YOU ZOOM THAT IN, MS. CAMIKA? GOOD LUCK. OH, WELL THERE, SHE'S GOT HER RIGHT HERE FOR HER. . . I KNOW WE ARE. THAT WAS A LOVE PASS. I'M KIDDING. I KNOW YOU ARE. OKAY, THERE'S A SECOND. THERE WE GO. ALL RIGHT. SO GIVE US A SECOND AGAIN PLEASE. THANK YOU. DIANA, WE KNEW YOU WERE HOLDING OUT ON US JUST TO SEE IF WE COULD SEE . OKAY. GIVE US ONE SECOND. THIS AGAIN GOES BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF MAKING SURE WE HAVE ACCURATE INFORMATION. OKAY. OKAY. SO WHERE ARE WE LOOKING AT? FOUR FEET IN THREE. OKAY. SEVEN FEET. SO IT'S SEVEN FEET BACK AND, AND THIS IS THAT 17 FEET. OKAY. THERE PROPERTY LINE, BUT THE PAVEMENT? YES. OKAY. SEVEN FEET. WE BEHIND THE PROPERTY LINE. SO THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T BE, THAT'S, THAT TAKES CARE OF MR. MARY'S CONCERN. ALL RIGHT. AND BUT IT'S STILL IN THE, UH, BUILDING LINE'S 25 FEET. YEAH. WHICH WOULD BE HERE, RIGHT? NO, FROM HERE. FROM HERE. FROM THE RADICALLY LINE. SO THERE'S SUCH A LONG DISTANCE BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE, THE, THE RADICALLY LINE THAT IT MAKES THAT HE SEEM LIKE THE FOOT ROAD IS SET SO FAR BACK FROM THE, FROM STREET LINE, BUT THERE'S A HUGE HERE. THE PLAINTIFF'S JUST NARROW. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO OUR INTERPRETATION THEN IS THESE ARE SUBMITTED HERE. WHAT DATE IS THIS? 3 19 24. 3 19 24. HOLD ON A SECOND. OUR LAST HEARING WAS IN APRIL. WHAT? , I'M CONFUSED. DO YOU SEE MY QUESTION? ALRIGHT, SO OUR PREVIOUS CASE WAS, LOOKS CASE 2 3 4 0 7 7. IS THAT WHAT I'M, THIS, THIS ONE THAT WE'RE ON. OH, WE'RE IN OH SEVEN. 7 0 7 7. SO, BUT THIS SAYS IT WAS DRAWN ON 3 19 24. ALL RIGHT. 3 19 24 WAS PRIOR TO THE LAST CASE SAYS ISSUED THE PRINTED. SO THIS MIGHT BE THE REVISION. RIGHT. AND SOMETIMES THEY FORGET TO CHANGE THE DATES. OKAY. DODGE THE BULLETS. OKAY. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THE, THIS IS THE MOST CURRENT. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS? [02:40:01] NO. ARE YOU SURE? YEP. THAT IT LOOKS GREAT. OKAY. ALL THAT IN LINE WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHS. OKAY, GOOD. ALL RIGHT. MY CONCERN WAS TO MAKE SURE WE HAD THE MOST CURRENT SET OF PLANS. UH, AND THESE ARE ENFORCEABLE. THESE ARE ENFORCEABLE. YES, SIR. THEY ARE ENFORCEABLE. OKAY. QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. MR. HAITZ, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED WITH UNDERSTANDING HOW, UH, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PLANS THAT WE SAW THE LAST TIME, UH, WHICH ARE SHOWING A SEVEN FOOT DISTANCE, UM, FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TO THE FE TO THE FENCE, CORRECT. THEREFORE NOT REQUIRING THE OPACITY REQUIREMENTS OR THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLES. WHY WERE THOSE, WHY I'M NOT CLEAR ON EXACTLY WHAT WAS THE INACCURACY AND WHAT WAS FIXED ABOUT IT. IS JORDAN, DID YOU WANT OPINE ON THAT? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANTED? I THINK OUR STAFF WANTED TO COMMENT AND THEN I, THEN THE APPLICANT DID. I GUESS NOT. YES. SO THERE ARE SOME DISCREPANCIES ON THE ORIGINAL SURVEY THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO US AS A SITE PLAN ON WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE WAS LOCATED. SO THE PROPERTY LINE ON THE ORIGINAL SITE PLAN, UM, THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CASE BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 3 3, IT HAD THE PROPERTY LINE INCORRECTLY LISTED, WHICH IS WHY WE CALCULATED OR PRIOR CALCULATIONS THAT, UM, THERE WAS A VISIBILITY OBSTRUCTION, UM, SPECIAL EXCEPTION THAT HAD TO COME UP FOR THE BOARD AS WELL AS THE OPACITY. BUT NOW THAT THAT'S BEEN, UM, RESOLVED, THE PROPERTY LINE IS CORRECT. YEAH, THE PROPERTY LINE WAS SHOWING WHERE THE, UM, THE FENCE WAS ON THE ORIGINAL SITE PLAN, BUT NOW THAT'S BEEN UPDATED WITH THE CORRECT SURVEY. AND SO EVERYTHING, UM, WITH THE, THE TWO PREVIOUS REQUESTS OF, UM, REGARDING OPACITY AND THE VISUAL OBSTRUCTION ARE NO LONGER VALID. SO THERE WERE SOME DISCREPANCIES WITH THE PROPERTY LINE. SO IF I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY, YOU'RE SAYING THERE WERE PRIOR VERSIONS SUBMITTED TO YOU THAT HAD A DIFFERENT LOCATION FOR THE PROPERTY LINE? THAT'S CORRECT. AND SO HOW DID, HOW DID, UM, WHEN, WHEN WAS THAT DISCOVERED? I BELIEVE THAT WAS DISCOVERED IN THE HEARING ON APRIL 16TH. BUT THERE WAS SOME DISCREPANCIES AND THAT'S WHY, UM, ALL THREE REQUESTS WERE DENIED BECAUSE AFTER I SHOWED YOU ALL THE PICTURES, UM, OR AFTER WE LOOKED AT THE PICTURES VERSUS THE SITE PLAN, IT WAS CLEAR THAT THERE WAS, IT JUST WASN'T LINING UP. AND SO THEY WENT OUT AND, UM, GOT ANOTHER SURVEY AND AN ACCURATE SURVEY. SO NOW EVERYTHING IS CORRECTING. THEY JUST NEEDED TO COME FOR US OR BEFORE YOU GUYS, UM, FOR THE HEIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO IS A SURVEY QUESTION TO STAFF, IS A SURVEY REQUIRED AS PART OF THE SUBMITTAL FOR, UH, ITEMS THAT COME BEFORE THE BOARD FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS? NO. I DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST ASKING. NO, IT'S NOT REQUIRED. SURVEY'S NOT REQUIRED. THAT'S RIGHT. YET WE MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON A SURVEY THAT'S NOT REQUIRED. A SURVEY ISN'T REQUIRED, BUT IT DO, UM, ASK THEM OR REQUIRE THEM TO PROVIDE A PLAT. YEAH. WELL THE PLATS ARE HERE. I GET THAT. I SEE THE PLATS. BUT PLAT, HOW, HOW IN THE WORLD, I MEAN, WE CAN'T TO MEATS AND BOUNDS ON A PLAT, BUT HERE THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S THE NARROW VERSION OF THE PLAT. I'M SHOWING WHAT'S IN THE DOCKET HERE. UM, SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO RESORT TO, WE HAVE TO KIND OF GET ALL OF OUR RESOURCES TOGETHER ON HOW WE COULD DETERMINE THE, THE ACTUAL, WHERE THE PINS ARE ACTUALLY LOCATED. SO THAT'S WHY WE WOULD TAKE IN A, A SURVEY IF THEY COULD PROVIDE US WITH THAT. IS IT A REQUIRED SURVEY? NO. BUT IF THEY COULD PROVIDE IT TO US, THEN WE KIND OF USE THAT YEP. WITH THE PLAN AND JUST KIND OF USE ALL OF OUR RESOURCES AND COMBINE AND SEE WHAT THE BEST FIT IS. OKAY. DID THE APPLICANT PROVIDE THE STAFF WITH A SURVEY FOR THIS SECOND SUBMITTAL? FOR THIS SUBMITTAL? AND THE REASON QUITE RESPON RESPECTFULLY, SIR, THE REASON WHY I'M CHASING THIS RABBIT IS BECAUSE YOU SUBMITTED INACCURATE INFORMATION LAST TIME. YES, I UNDERSTAND. AND SO THEREFORE I'M, I'M GUARD OF WHAT I'M GONNA BELIEVE OR NOT. YES. AND I'M JUST BEING FORTHRIGHT WITH YOU. NOW, THAT'S [02:45:01] JUST ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE, BUT I'M GUESSING I'M SPEAKING FOR FIVE HERE, BUT WE'LL SEE, UH, WE DON'T HAVE IT IN OUR FILE HERE, BUT I BELIEVE FROM THE BRIEFING, MS. CASTANEDA, SHE HAD SAID THAT THEY, THEY HAD PROVIDED A NEW SURVEY, SO THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT SHE HAS, BUT SHE'S NOT HERE TO ANSWER TO THAT. OKAY. UM, AND SHE TOOK THIS CASE IN, SO I'M ASSUMING THERE WAS A SURVEY THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO HER. IT'S JUST NOT HERE WITH US RIGHT NOW. OKAY. OKAY. WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? AND THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER, RIGHT? MS. WILLIAMS? WE HAVE A SECOND SPEAKER. I BELIEVE IT'S THE PROPERTY OWNER. OKAY. WELL, HE, IF HE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK, HE HAS A RIGHT TO SPEAK. SO IF THE, IF THE OTHER SPEAKER WOULD LIKE TO COME UP, YES. OKAY. WHAT I SAID IS, DOES HE SPEAK SPANISH OR SPEAK ENGLISH? AND THEN I SAID, IS THE OTHER GENTLEMAN GONNA SPEAK FOR HIM? OH, HOW'S THAT? OKAY. WANNA SWEAR HIM IN BOTH DO IT IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH. LUCKY YOU, MARY. UM, DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH IN YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD WITH JASMINE? UH, PERMIT DALLAS. OKAY. YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK. OKAY. UM, ARE YOU GONNA TRANSLATE? IS THAT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN? I'M GONNA TRY. OKAY, GO AHEAD. GO FOR IT. HE SAYS, UH, UH, TRYING TO DO THAT, UH, HIGH, THAT FENCE FOR A PROTECTION OF, UH, HIS FAMILY. OKAY. BECAUSE, UH, HE DID, UH, HE BUILD A TWO STORY NICE HOME OVER THERE, BRAND NEW. AND HE SAYS HE'S, HE'S TRYING TO MATCH, YOU KNOW, THE MATERIALS WITH, UH, WITH THE EXISTING, THE NEW HOME. HE SAYS, UH, HE'S, UH, HE'S NOT, UH, UH, CAUSING PROBLEMS TO THE, TO THE NEIGHBORS. SO YEAH, HE SAYS THAT, THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU. UM, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS SPEAKER? WHO'S THE PRO? HE'S THE PROPERTY OWNER, CORRECT? YEAH, HE'S THE OWNER. OKAY. THE OWNER. OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, MS. DAVIS? I I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS. I'D LIKE YOU TO ADDRESS TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, WHY THE FENCE WAS BUILT WITHOUT A PERMIT. AND NUMBER TWO, UM, I UNDERSTAND, AND I, I KNOW YOU SHARED SOME PHOTOS OF SOME FENCES AS WE VIEWED THAT STREET, I DIDN'T SEE MANY FENCES OF THAT HEIGHT, IF ANY, ON THAT ARE NEAR YOUR HOME. SO I'D LIKE YOU TO ADDRESS BOTH OF THOSE, PLEASE. UH, OKAY. OKAY. SO WE, ON THE COMPANY, WE SUBMIT THE PLANS ON, UH, SEPTEMBER 26, UH, 2023 TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT ON, ON ON DALLAS, TEXAS. AND HE START TO BUILD, UH, THE HOME ON A, A , UH, NOVEMBER, OCTOBER O ON OCTOBER. WELL, SO WERE, WHEN DID YOU GET A PERMIT TO BUILD? WAS THAT APPROVED? WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE PERMIT. SO YOU SUBMITTED PLANS TO THE CITY AND THEN, THEN WHAT HAPPENED? NOT HAPPENED WHEN WE, WHEN THEY, UH, SENT ME AN EMAIL, UH, THEY SAYS, UH, WE DON'T COME WITH THE HEIGHT AND WE NEED TO COME HERE WITH, UH, THIS STAFF. DID YOU CONTACT THE CITY AFTER YOU BUILT THE FENCE OR BEFORE YOU BUILT THE FENCE? UH, BEFORE WE BUILT THE, THE, AFTER WE BUILT THE HOUSE, THE, THE FENCE. WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT BEFORE? [02:50:03] CONTACT THE, HE SAYS, UH, HE, UH, DID THE OFFENSE AND HE DIDN'T THINK THAT, UH, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR THE CITY. I, I THINK I SAID THIS LAST TIME, YOU IN FRONT OF US, IT'S UP TO EVERY HOMEOWNER TO UNDERSTAND THE RESTRICTIONS. WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN FRONT OF US AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR PERMISSION, MY IMPRESSION, JUST THIS ONE BOARD MEMBER IS THAT THAT'S JUST VERY DISRESPECTFUL TO THE PROCESS THAT YOU DON'T CARE. SO I, I DON'T TAKE THAT VERY POSITIVELY. SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING. YOU ALWAYS NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE RESTRICTIONS ARE. THAT IS YOUR JOB AS A HOMEOWNER. NUMBER TWO, I'D LIKE YOU TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT I DID NOT SEE ANY OTHER HOUSES IMMEDIATELY CLOSE TO THIS PROPERTY THAT HAVE, THAT HAVE FENCES TO THAT HEIGHT. HE SAYS THE, THE PICTURES, UH, THAT, UH, HE PRO, UH, PROVIDE SOME THOSE FENCES THAT EXISTING ON PEORIA STREET. I'D LIKE YOU TO ADDRESS THE HOUSES THAT ARE CLOSER TO YOUR HOUSE THAT DON'T HAVE FENCES OF THAT HEIGHT. IT, IT'S LIKE, UH, MAYBE 10 HOUSES DOWN THE SAME STREET. TWO FENCE. THE FENCE IS EIGHT FEET HIGH. MY FENCE IS SIX FEET HIGH. SIX FEET. THE, THE HOUSES THAT WE SAW ON THE STREET THAT ARE CLOSE TO THIS PROPERTY DID NOT HAVE FENCES. THEY, THEY DID NOT LOOK LIKE THEY WERE OVER FOUR FEET HIGH. I UNDERSTAND YOU SUBMITTED PHOTOS. I THINK THOSE HOUSES ARE A LITTLE BIT FURTHER DOWN, BUT IMMEDIATELY CLOSE TO YOU. THEY WERE ALL EITHER NO FENCE. I, I I KNOW ALL THAT. OR CHAIN LINK FENCE. IT WAS SHORTER. FOUR FEET. YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. I, I, MY IMPRESSION IS THAT YOU, I I DON'T KNOW. I, I'M A LITTLE, I'M TROUBLED HERE BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE NOT CARING ABOUT THE PROCESS AND YOU'RE NOT ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS DIRECTLY. SO IT'S GONNA TAKE A LOT MORE TO CONVINCE ME TO SUPPORT THIS MOTION. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT, OR EXCUSE ME, FOR THE APPLICANT OR THE SECOND SPEAKER. OKAY. DID YOU, DID YOU WANNA SAY ANYTHING ELSE AT THIS JUNCTURE? I, I WILL TELL YOU, SIR, BASED ON THE VIDEO WE SAW THIS MORNING THAT OUR STAFF PROVIDED US, COMPARED TO WHAT YOU PROVIDED HERE, THESE BIG FENCES ARE AT THE END OF YOUR STREET. I THINK I REMEMBER WHEN SHE WENT AROUND AND THIS LOOKS LIKE BE ALL COMMERCIAL TYPE PROPERTIES, NOT RESIDENTIAL. YEAH, THESE ARE ALL COMMERCIAL. I IF I, IF I, I MEAN THESE INDUSTRIAL, INDUSTRIAL AND, UM, I THINK WHAT MS. DAVIS WAS REFERRING TO WAS THE RESIDENTIAL HOMES CLOSER AND ADJACENT TO YOUR PROPERTY. SO NOW I DID NOTE THAT ONE OF THEM THAT ASSIGNED THIS, UH, MS. GONZALEZ, 33 0 3 IS YOUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR. UH, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF OUR CRITERIA. BUT, UM, BUT THESE COMPARISONS REALLY WERE MORE COMMERCIAL AS OPPOSED TO IMMEDIACY. BUT, BUT IT'S INFORMATION FOR US TO DIGEST. THANK YOU. OKAY. QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OKAY, THANK YOU GENTLEMEN. ALRIGHT. UH, THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MS. DAVIS, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 0 7 7 ON APPLICATION OF JOEL PERES DENY THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION REQUESTED BY THIS APPLICANT TO CONSTRUCT AND OR MAINTAIN A SIX, SIX INCH HIGH FENCE WITHOUT PREJUDICE. BECAUSE OUR EVALUATION OF THE PROPERTY AND THE TESTIMONY SHOWS THAT GRANTING THE APPLICATION WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY IN THE MATTER BDA 2 3 4 DASH SEVEN SEVEN. MS. DAVIS MOVED TO DENY THE REQUEST FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION REQUEST WITHOUT PREJUDICE. IS THERE A SECOND TO THE MOTION? SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. HAKO, UH, DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. I, I WILL SUPPORT THIS [02:55:01] MOTION BECAUSE AS I PREVIOUSLY STATED, I AM LOOKING AT THE OTHER RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, AND THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT FOR ME. CLARIFYING FOR THAT, ME CLARIFYING THAT FOR ME, CHAIRPERSON, UM, IT IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT, HOW THOSE OTHER PROPERTIES LOOK, I THINK IT WOULD AFFECT THE VALUATIONS OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, WHICH IS WHY I'M SUPPORTING THIS MOTION. THANK YOU, MS. DAVIS. MR. HAITZ, I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD. I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD. THANK YOU, SIR. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? I'M UNDECIDED. I, I I'M UNDECIDED. UM, I'M NOT CONVINCED. I'M WORRIED. I STILL AM WORRIED ABOUT THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION WE'RE GETTING. UM, OUR CRITERIA IS THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. SO WE'RE IN DISCUSSION PHASE NOW, UH, AND I'M TORN BETWEEN, UH, A PROCESS THAT WAS NOT FOLLOWED VERY WELL BY THE APPLICANT. IT WASN'T FOLLOWED AT ALL. AND, UH, VERSUS WHAT, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD PROPERTY? AND I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION YET. I MEAN, I'M KIND OF DOING A REPLAY. I'M KIND OF DOING A REPLAY OF THE VIDEO THAT WE SAW AND THE PICTURES WE SAW FROM THE STAFF THIS MORNING TO TRY TO EXAMINE WHAT'S GOING ON ON PEORIA STREET. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY RELEVANT HERE. IF I LOOK ON OUR MAPPING, IT'S A COMBINATION OF R SEVEN FIVE, R FIVE ZONING ON PEORIA STREET, AND THEN IN A BUTTS TWO, I AM ON THE BACKSIDE. SO I'M GONNA TRY TO IGNORE THE I AM, BECAUSE THE, THE HOUSES ALONG PEORIA ARE ALL AN R FIVE AND, AND SO I DON'T KNOW. BUT I WILL TELL YOU BOARD MEMBERS, OUR RULES ARE CLEAR. THE BURDEN IS ON THE APPLICANT, THE BURDEN'S ON THE APPLICANT. SO I WELCOME FURTHER DISCUSSION, BUT THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS TO DENY. SO JUST FOR CLARITY, AND YOU PLEASE CONFIRM WE, MR. ATTORNEY, A MOTION TO DENY JUST REQUIRES MAJORITY. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. A MOTION TO APPROVE REQUIRES FOUR. SO MOTION DENY IS JUST THREE. OKAY. SO THERE YOU GO. DISCUSSION MR. NARY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I, I, I LIKE YOU, I'M TORN ON THIS ONE. UM, I HAVE MIXED FEELINGS. I DON'T THINK REALLY THAT THIS FENCE THAT UNFORTUNATELY WAS BUILT WITHOUT PERMISSION OR WITHOUT A PERMIT IN ADVANCE, I DON'T THINK THAT IT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. UH, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY OPPOSITION. WE DO HAVE ONE PERSON IN SUPPORT THAT IT'S IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY. SO I'M INCLINED THAT WAY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I'M NOT HAPPY WITH THE PROCESS AND, AND THE FACT THAT IT WAS BUILT, UH, WITHOUT, PER, WITHOUT A PERMIT AND WITHOUT AN ACCURATE SURVEY BEFOREHAND. THANK YOU, MR. NER. MS. HAYDEN, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH MR. NRI. UM, THIS IS A DIFFICULT CASE BECAUSE IT WAS CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT A PERMIT AND IT CLEARLY IS, UM, IN VIOLATION OF, OF ZONING. AND, BUT WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IS WILL THIS ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY? NOW IF, IF THIS WERE CLOSER TO THE STREET WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS AFFECTING WHAT WE CALL BLOCK BASED CONTINUITY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR SOME, UH, UH, MORE OF A SAFETY ISSUE, THEN I WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO SAY, YES, IT ADVERSELY AFFECTS NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. UM, BUT THIS IS A TOUGH ONE BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER NEW HOMES OUT THERE THAT HAVE FENCES IN THE FRONT LIKE THIS ONE. THERE AREN'T ANY OLD HOMES THAT HAVE FENCES IN THE FRONT LIKE THIS ONE. SO IT'S A TOUGH CALL BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY OUR OPINION. UM, SO, UM, YEAH, I'M, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THIS ONE TOO. OKAY. UH, I'LL MAKE A COMMENT THEN. I'VE GOT MS. DAVIS. UM, I READ AGAIN, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. SO WE DRAW FROM THE STAFF INFORMATION WE GET THIS MORNING AT THE BRIEFING, THE VIDEO, THE TESTIMONY FROM THE APPLICANT, UM, [03:00:03] AND, UM, AND THEN OUR JUDGMENT ABOUT WHETHER, WHAT, WHETHER WE HAVE A FEELING OF WHAT IS OR IS NOT AFFECTING NEIGHBORHOOD PROPERTY, UH, RESPECTFULLY, WE'RE NOW TALKING TO OURSELVES. THIS IS NOT TALKING TO YOU. OKAY? I'M NOT BEING DISRESPECTFUL. I'M JUST SO YOU UNDERSTAND, OKAY, THIS DOESN'T HELP AT ALL, , BECAUSE THESE, THESE ARE COMMERCIAL. THIS, THESE ARE PER COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES AT THE OTHER END OF THE STREETS, YOU KNOW, UH, I DON'T RECALL SEEING FENCES OVER FOUR FEET. I I JUST DON'T. NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T APPROVE IT. I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL BOARD MEMBERS ABOUT PUTTING A JUDGMENT IN OF THAT. IF SOMEONE DOESN'T FILE A PERMIT, THEREFORE THAT VETOES THE CASE. THAT IS NOT PART OF OUR CRITERIA. CORRECT? MR. BOARD ATTORNEY? THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND WELL SAID. THANK YOU, SIR. NOW, THAT CAN PLACE, SINCE WE ARE SUBJECTIVE IN OUR OBJECTIVE PROCESS, , IT CAN PLAY INTO IT. BUT OUR CRITERIA IS, AS MR. NERI SPOKE, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. AND SO THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD STAY FOCUSED ON. AGAIN, ALL THE OTHER ELEMENTS ARE SUBJECTIVE TO OUR OBJECTIVITY. THE REASON WE'RE CONSTITUTED THIS WAY IS BECAUSE WE ALL COME FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY. WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS, UM, AND WE'RE ALL INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER. SO, MS. DAVIS, IJI JUST WANNA SPEAK TO THE, UM, BOARD FOR A MOMENT AND JUST SAY, FIRST I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE APPLICANT'S FENCE LOOKS LIKE ANY OTHER FENCES OR PROPERTIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT DEFINITELY LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT. NUMBER TWO, I WOULD, MY HOPE FOR THIS BOARD IS THAT WE MAKE LONG-TERM DECISIONS FOR THE GOOD OF THIS DESTINATION. AND IF WE CONTINUE TO APPROVE APPLICANTS WHO HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE PROCESS, AND WE WE'RE ALL ADMITTING THAT THERE HAS BEEN LACK OF TRANSPARENCY HERE AND LACK OF ACCURACY, THAT DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR DALLAS. ALL IT DOES IS, YOU KNOW, IN MY, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, OTHER PEOPLE CAN SEE THIS AND SAY, OKAY, I CAN DO THE SAME THING. WE CAN'T KEEP THAT. THERE'S A PROCESS FOR A REASON. WE NEED TO RESPECT THAT PROCESS. THESE APPLICANTS NEED TO RESPECT THE PROCESS. I I DON'T MEAN DISRESPECT TO YOU. I DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU RESPECTED THE PROCESS. I FEEL LIKE YOU DISREGARDED IT AND THERE'S REALLY, I'M NOT SEEING ANY TYPE OF REMORSE FOR, SORRY, WE DID THAT. IF WE WOULD'VE DONE THIS DIFFERENTLY. I'M NOT SEEING ANY OF THAT, AND THAT'S REALLY AFFECTING ME. WE NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THE LONG-TERM GOOD OF THIS DESTINATION, NOT FIXES, WHICH WE, I FEEL LIKE WE DO VERY OFTEN. THANK YOU, MS. DAVIS. MR. HAITZ, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE OUR PROCESS HERE THAT THE BOARD GOES THROUGH, WHICH INVOLVES REVIEWING ALL THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE THAT PRESENTED TO US, OR THE KEY ELEMENTS OF THAT IS HAVING FULL CONFIDENCE IN THE EVIDENCE THAT WE'RE PRESENTED. AND I SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN THE EVIDENCE AS BEING 100% ACCURATE. AND I'M NOT CASTING DISPERSIONS ON ANYONE. I'M SIMPLY SAYING I DON'T HAVE THAT LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE IN WHAT WE'VE BEEN PRESENTED. FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. SO YOU JUST THREW A CURVE BALL AT ME THERE, MS. MICHAEL. YOU THREW A CURVE BALL AND, AND I, I, I WE'RE IN DISCUSSION. SO THIS IS FREEFORM. I AGREE WITH YOU. I, I, I, I, I ASKED OUR PROFESSIONAL STAFF IF THEY WON, REQUIRE A SURVEY AND TWO, WHETHER THEY HAVE IT, AND THE ANSWER IS NO, AND MAYBE MEANING NO, THEY DON'T REQUIRE IT. AND MAYBE THEY HAVE THE SURVEY, BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE OF IT OR NOT, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT I HEARD? CORRECT. BUT EVEN, EVEN WITH THAT, THE PLAT SHOWS THE DIMENSIONS AND THE DIMENSIONS ON THAT PLAN MATCH UP WITH THE DIMENSIONS ON THE SITE. I'D LIKE TO SEE A SURVEY IN ORDER FOR, I, I'M, I'M NOW FALLING IN WITH WHAT MR. HAITZ IS SAYING IN THIS CASE. UH, IN THIS CASE, I DO NOT, I AM, WE, WE, PART OF OUR JOB IS TO WEIGH THE EVIDENCE, BOTH SPOKEN AND PER SUBMITTED. THAT'S WHY THE EVIDENCE IS KEPT WITH THIS BOARD SECRETARY. AND I AM, I AM HESITANT TO RELY ON THAT GIVEN THAT OUR, AGAIN, THE BURDEN IS ON THE APPLICANT AND MAYBE IF I SAW A SURVEY STAMPED WITH AN ENGINEER STAMP, WHICH MEANS YOU COULD LOSE YOUR LICENSE IF YOU FIB THAT. CORRECT. OKAY. SURVEYOR STAFF. I'M SORRY, NOT AN ENGINEER STAFF, A SURVEYOR STAMP. RIGHT? I ASSUME THEY'RE LICENSED IN TEXAS, RIGHT? SO IF I SAW THAT AND THAT MATCHED [03:05:01] UP, UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME, I'M LOOKING AT AN EIGHT AND A HALF BY 11 SQUINTED EYES AND ON THE SCREEN, AND I, I'M TRYING TO SEE HOW THAT THAT IS DRAWN CONSISTENT WITH INSIDER SURVEY, THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER. I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE DATE OF THIS IS THREE 19 AND THE LAST CASE WAS IN APRIL. AND I'M WONDERING THE TIMING OF THAT. SO I, UM, WHAT I WILL SAY IS I CANNOT SIT HERE TODAY AND SUPPORT APPROVING THIS. DOES THAT MEAN I'M GONNA SUGGEST DENYING IT OR DOES THAT MEAN I HOLD IT OVER? I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S MY OPINION. OTHER OPINIONS, OTHER DISCUSSION. SO WHAT I JUST SAID WAS, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL SUPPORT THE DENIAL, BUT I WILL NOT SUPPORT APPROVAL. MR. NERIAN, I'M INCLINED TO AGREE WITH YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, I MEAN, I KNOW WE HATE TO HOLD OVER CASES, BUT IN THIS CASE, THE CREDIBILITY IS A REAL FACTOR. AND I THINK WE, AND I THINK WE NEED TO, AND I THINK WE NEED TO SEE A COPY OF THE ACTUAL SURVEY SUPPOSEDLY, PARTICULARLY SINCE THE, THAT SITE PLAN FROM THREE MARCH DIDN'T CHANGE. SO, SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR. I WOULD SUPPORT A MOTION TO HOLD IT OVER FURTHER IF WE GET TO THAT POINT. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. UH, HOLD ON ONE SECOND HERE, MR. ATTORNEY, I'M GONNA PUT YOU ON THE SPOT. UM, JUST FOR CLARITY, THE DISCUSSION THE BOARD IS HAVING NOW, UH, IS ALL IN ORDER, CORRECT? YES, SIR. AND OUR, OUR DISCRETION THAT WE EXERCISE IS BASED ON THE TOTALITY OF THE EVIDENCE SPOKEN AND WRITTEN SUBMITTED, CORRECT? CORRECT. AND IT'S UP TO US TO DETERMINE, UH, WHAT WEIGHT WE PUT ON WHAT EVIDENCE WE RECEIVE, CORRECT? CORRECT. AS LONG AS WE, I'M SETTING THIS UP FOR A REASON, GUYS. AS LONG AS WE FOLLOW, IN THE END, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY, CORRECT? THAT IS THE LEGAL STANDARD OF REVIEW. SO THAT'S OUR LEGAL STANDARD OF REVIEW, CORRECT? BUT IT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION, CAREFULLY EXECUTED OF THE BOARD TO DETERMINE THAT, TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT WILL NOT AFFECT NE, WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. YES, THAT IS CORRECT. THE THE WORD IN THE STATUTE IS DISCRETION. CORRECT. SO I INTER THANK YOU. I INTERPRET THAT AS WE HAVE THE, WE HAVE THE LATITUDE TO JUDGE WHETHER WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION AND ACCURATE INFORMATION, AND I'M OF MR. KO'S OPINION THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH AND OR ACCURATE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO MAKE AN AFFIRMATIVE. AGAIN, A REQUEST FOR AN EXCEPTION IS BEING MADE HERE. NOW, UH, THERE ARE SOME BOARD MEMBERS, AND I LOVE 'EM, ALL THAT ASK REGULARLY, WHY ARE YOU HERE? WHY ARE YOU BREAKING THE RULES? WHY ARE YOU ASKING FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION? WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, TO OCCASIONALLY GRANT THEM AND OCCASIONALLY NOT MR. HOPKOS. WELL, IF YOU'LL PERMIT ME TO THROW ANOTHER CURVE BALL, WHAT? ARE YOU GONNA THROW US ANOTHER ONE? I THINK SO. OH MY GOD. SO I'M CONSIDERING YOUR SUGGESTION, YOUR, UH, CONSIDERING A HOLDOVER, AND I'M WONDERING, BASED ON WHAT'S BEEN REQUESTED TODAY AND WHAT WAS REQUESTED IN THE HEARING IN MARCH, IN APRIL, THANK YOU. UM, SPECIFICALLY, WE WOULD BE REVIEWING IN ANOTHER REVIEW OF THIS. SO I, I, I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW, I'M GRASPING. I SET AN ENGINEER STAMP, I MEANT TO SAY A SURVEYOR STAMP, UM, UH, I THINK PROFESSIONAL STAFF. WHAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM US IS WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION AND ACCURATE ENOUGH INFORMATION. SO WHAT ARE THE OTHER WAYS THAT YOU CAN GIVE US BY ASKING OF THE APPLICANT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT BESIDES A SURVEY WITH HARMING? SO GIVE US, GIVE US PARTICULARS. I GUESS YOU CAN SAY WHAT IT IS SPECIFICALLY THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR, OR WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO PROVIDE. HOWEVER, A SURVEY IS NOT A REQUIREMENT THAT WE ASK FOR. UNDERSTOOD. SO I'M NOT SURE WE CAN MAKE THEM PROVIDE SURVEY. WELL, WE CAN MAKE YOU ASKING, BUT WE COULD, CAN WE? OKAY. MR. BOARD ATTORNEY, YOU CAN INTERPRET WHAT SHE JUST SAID. YEAH, I AGREE WITH HER. AND TO YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT, UH, YOU CAN MAKE THEM, I MEAN, YOU CERTAINLY CAN REQUEST THINGS OR SAY THIS IS WHAT WE REQUIRE TO DO. OKAY. WE COULD REQUEST, RIGHT? AND THEN IF THEY ARE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH THAT AND THE BOARD FEELS THAT THE STANDARD HAS BEEN MET OR NOT BURDEN HAS BEEN MET OR NOT MET, THEN THEY CAN MAKE A DECISION ON THAT. UM, BUT LIKE, AS DR. MILLER HAS, HAS POINTED OUT, UM, THE SURVEY IN PARTICULAR WAS NOT [03:10:01] REQUIRED. THE DRAWINGS WERE REQUIRED, THE DRAWINGS WERE PROVIDED, UM, FROM THE DISCUSSION, I'M SURE THE APPLICANT CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, IF THIS CASE WAS HELD OVER, THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO BE PROVIDING A SURVEY WITH A SURVEYOR STAMP AS THE CHAIRMAN HAS SUGGESTED, AND THAT THAT WOULD PROBABLY BRING, UM, ENOUGH CREDIBILITY TO THE, UH, THE DOCUMENTS. THANK YOU, MR. BOARD ATTORNEY, MS. HAYDEN. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE REVIEW SITE PLANS ALL THE TIME THAT DON'T HAVE A SURVEY OR STAMP ON THEM. AND WE TRUST THE INFORMATION IS CORRECT BECAUSE THAT'S IN THE PUBLIC RECORD AND THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH. I MEAN, SO THE FACT THAT WE HAD, UM, INACCURATE INFORMATION AT THE LAST SUBMITTAL IS WHAT IS CAUSING US TO HAVE THIS CONCERN. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WOULD GIVE ME A LEVEL OF COMFORT IS IF I SAW LITERALLY A MEASUREMENT FROM THE EDGE OF THE PAVEMENT TO THE FENCE. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, YOU'RE NOT MOVING THAT PAVEMENT AND THAT FENCE IS NOT MOVING. SO TO ME THAT WOULD BE A CHECK, THAT WOULD BE A FIELD CHECK IF SOMEBODY COULD PROVIDE A PICTURE, A PHOTOGRAPH SHOWING HERE'S HOW, HERE'S THE DISTANCE FROM THE EDGE OF THE PAVEMENT TO THE FENCE. AND THEN YOU COULD TAKE THAT AND LOOK AT THE DRAWING AND SAY, OKAY, YEAH, THIS, THIS MATCHES THE DRAWING, OR IT DOESN'T MATCH THE DRAWING. IN ADDITION TO A SURVEY. YES. IN ADDITION TO SURVEY. OKAY, MS. DAVIS, THEN MR. HOP IS MS. DAVIS. UM, ANOTHER SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SURROUNDING, THE SURROUNDING HOUSES, NOT HOUSES DOWN THE STREET, THE SURROUNDING HOUSES, SO THAT WE CAN ACCURATELY SEE ALL OF THOSE FENCES THAT ARE CLOSE TO THIS PROPERTY TO, TO JUDGE THE HEIGHT AGAIN, BECAUSE OUR CONCERN IS THAT YOUR PROPOSED FENCE THAT'S ALREADY BUILT IS MUCH TALLER THAN THE SURROUNDING FENCES OF PROPERTIES THAT ARE CLOSE TO YOUR PROPERTY. OKAY, I'VE GOT MR. OVITZ THAN MS. HAYDEN. UH, YEAH, I WAS GONNA EXACTLY SAY WHAT MS. DAVIS JUST SAID. UM, WHICH IS PART OF THE ELEMENT IS THE TRUST IN THE EVIDENCE. AND PART OF IT IS WE ALREADY AREN'T SEEING FENCES THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THIS. SO BOTH OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS WOULD NEED TO BE MET FOR THE BOARD TO SAY YES. AT LEAST IN THIS, IN THE, IN MY OPINION. THANK YOU, MR. HAITZ, MS. HAYDEN. AND BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY, IT WOULD GIVE ME A LOT OF COMFORT IF I SAW ACTUAL LETTERS FROM YOUR NEIGHBORS ACTUAL GO DOOR TO DOOR, GET SOME INFO, MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE OKAY WITH THIS FENCE, ESPECIALLY YOUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS, YOUR NEIGHBORS ACROSS THE STREET, IT'S NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. SO THAT MEANS RIGHT NEXT TO YOU IF THEY, IF THEY SAY YES, THIS IS OKAY, THIS DOESN'T ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, THAT WOULD MAKE ME FEEL A LOT BETTER. OKAY. SO I'M GONNA REQUEST, BASED ON THE FEEDBACK I'VE RECEIVED, THAT THE MOTION TO DENY GET WITHDRAWN. AND THEN I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO HOLD OVER IS, WILL THE WHO DID YOU MAKE THE MOTION OR, OH, YOU HAVE POINT OF ORDER? YES, SIR. UM, BEFORE YOU DO THAT, YES SIR. SHOULD WE ASK THE APPLICANT IF THEY WANT TO DO THAT? WELL, RIGHT NOW WE REALLY SHOULD NOT HAVE A CONVERSATION TO THE APPLICANT WHILE THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. 'CAUSE THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS FOR US. ONCE THE MOTION IS OFF THE FLOOR, WE CAN ENGAGE THE APPLICANT. SO FIRST I NEED TO HAVE OUR DISCUSSION EITHER COME TO A VOTE OR WITHDRAW AND THEN WE'LL GO TO THAT. OKAY? SO, UM, WHO MADE THE MOTION? YOU DID MS. DAVIS, WE WITHDRAW YOUR MOTION. I WITHDRAW MY MOTION. MR. HAITZ, WILL YOU WITHDRAW YOUR SECOND RELUCTANTLY? YES. OKAY, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, SO THE MOTION HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN. ALRIGHT, SO, UH, BASICALLY THE PUBLIC HEARING'S BACK OPEN. UM, WHAT YOU'VE HEARD TODAY IS CONCERNS. AND WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING IS POSTPONING THIS TILL AUGUST. WHAT WAS HER AUGUST DATE? AUGUST 20TH. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING, UM, I WILL CONSIDER MAKING A MOTION SUBJECT TO THE BOARD'S APPROVAL TO MOVE IT TO AU TO HOLD IT TO AUGUST 20TH. AND I'M PREDICATING THAT ON THE SEVERAL THINGS YOU HEARD TODAY, BECAUSE I WON'T SUPPORT, THAT'S JUST ONE VOTE. BUT I BET YOU IT'S THE GROUP. UH, UNLESS WE SEE A SURVEY, UNLESS WE SEE MEASUREMENTS. MS. HAYDEN, [03:15:01] WOULD YOU SPEAK UP TO THIS? WHAT MEASURE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HIM? RIGHT? LIKE JUST A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE ACTUAL DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EDGE OF THE PAVEMENT OF THE STREET AND THE FENCE, JUST SO WE CAN VERIFY THAT THE MEASUREMENTS SHOWN ON THE PLAN ARE ACCURATE. AND I WOULD SUGGEST, SIR, SINCE YOU'RE REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU WORK WITH THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF BECAUSE WE CAN'T DIRECT YOU. WE CAN TELL YOU THAT OUR OPINION, THE, THAT WE'RE GONNA HOLD THIS OVER BASED ON THESE CONCERNS, BUT YOU CAN'T COME TALK TO US ABOUT IT. BUT YOU CAN TALK TO THE STAFF AND WHO'S THE PLANNER ON THIS? OKAY? YEAH. UH, MS. JORDAN, YOU CAN TALK TO MS. JORDAN OR OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND WE CAN COMMUNICATE TO THEM AND SAY, THESE ARE OUR CONCERNS. 'CAUSE WE DON'T WANNA GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN, AND I DON'T THINK WE WILL. UH, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A SURVEY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MEASUREMENTS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WHATEVER IS SUBMITTED MATCHES UP THREE DIFFERENT WAYS OR TWO DIFFERENT WAYS, OR WHATEVER NUMBER OF WAYS SO THAT THE STAFF CAN SAY, YES, WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL CONFIDENCE THAT THE, THE DRAWINGS SUBMITTED MATCHED WHAT'S ON THE GROUND. WHAT'S BEEN A, MAYBE EVEN ANOTHER FIELD VISIT THAT MAY BE, I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO. I'M JUST TELLING YOU TO, TO TRY TO HAVE RESOLUTION. I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. I DON'T KNOW ALL THAT SORT OF DEAL. SO DO YOU SEE KIND OF WHAT I'M AFTER? AND THEN YOU'LL DISPATCH YOUR CREW ACCORDINGLY. UH, ARE YOU INTERESTED IN THAT, SIR? YES. WE CAN PROVIDE ANYTHING THAT, UH, YOU REQUIRE. I WOULD WORK WITH THE STAFF, YES. YES, SIR. TO COME UP WITH THAT YES. INFORMATION. OKAY. SO MR. HOKO IS BASED ON THAT. I'M GONNA MAKE THE MOTION. I IN THE MATTER OF BDA 2 34 DASH 0 7 7, I MOVE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ON APPLICATION. JOEL, UH, PERES, UM, HOLD THE ITEM BDA 2 3 4 0 7 7 HOLD THIS MATTER UNDER ADVISEMENT UNTIL AUGUST 20TH, 2024. I SO MOVE. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. NRI DISCUSSION. I'VE SAID WHAT I'VE SAID. I THINK THIS GIVES US MORE TIME, I THINK GIVES THE APPLICANT MORE TIME AND STAFF TIME IN ORDER TO HOPEFULLY MEET THE, MEET THE REQUESTS, NOT REQUIREMENTS, THE REQUESTS THAT WE HAVE, SO THAT WE FEEL WAY WE CAN BE IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO JUDGE WHETHER THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. I WILL MENTION TO YOU, SIR, FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD, AS MS. HAYDEN SAID, PART OF OUR CRITERIA IS WHAT ARE THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS THINK? AND IT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING MORE BOLD, MORE SUBSTANTIAL THAN THIS. OKAY? YES. OKAY? YES, SIR. BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU HOW YOU WANT TO PROCEED. BUT THIS, THIS DOESN'T PASS IN THIS PERSON'S POINT. WELL OPINION. OKAY? AND WE ALL VOTE INDIVIDUALLY. OKAY. SO THAT'S OUR, THAT'S OUR, THAT'S OUR CONVERSATION. MOTIONS ON THE FLOOR. UM, DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. HEARING NONE. BOARD SECRETARY WILL CALL FOR THE VOTE AND BDA 2 3 4 0 7 7 TO HOLD OVER TO AUGUST 20TH, 2024. MR. N AYE. MS. DAVIS? NO, MS. HAYDEN AYE. MR. HAITZ? AYE. MR. CHAIR? AYE. MOTION TO HOLD PASSES. 4 2 0 4 1 QUARTER ONE. I'M SORRY. UM, SO WE HAVE HELD THIS CASE OVER TO AUGUST 20TH. THAT SHOULD GIVE, USE THE APPLICANT PLENTY OF TIME TO WORK WITH THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF TO COME AND FOR THEM TO USE THEIR JUDGMENT, GIVE YOU ADVICE AND OR SUGGESTIONS BASED ON THE FEEDBACK. WE'VE GONE ON THE RECORD HERE TODAY, AND WE'LL HEAR THIS ONE LAST TIME. I DOUBT SERIOUSLY WE'LL HEAR IT AGAIN, BUT WE'LL SEE. OKAY, THANK YOU. WE ARE GONNA WORK ON THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. LAST CASE FOR TODAY IS BDA 2 3 4 0 8 0 2 3 4 DASH EIGHT. THIS IS AT 5 4 1 9 EAST GRAND AVENUE. IS THE APPLICANT HERE? YES, HE IS. ALRIGHT, COME FORWARD. DO I NEED TO BE SWORN IN AGAIN? UM, I DON'T KNOW. DOES HE NEED TO BE SWORN IN? DO WE TRUST HIM? OF COURSE, OF COURSE. WE TRUST YOU. YOU'RE SWORN IN FOR THE DAY. OKAY. YOU'RE SWORN IN FOR LIFE. MR. BALDWIN. . THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES. I'M JOKING FOR THE RECORD. HE GETS SWORN IN EVERY TIME. SO GO AHEAD. UH, ROB BALDWIN 3 9 0 4 ELM STREET, SUITE B IN DALLAS, REPRESENTING THE PROPERTY OWNER IN THIS REQUEST. I HOPE THAT BY THE END OF MY FIVE MINUTES, THIS, THIS REQUEST WILL BE LESS SCARY THAN IT SOUNDED LIKE AT, UH, THE BRIEFING SESSION. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. . I HAD TO LAUGH ON THE RECORD. OKAY, GO AHEAD. [03:20:01] SO THIS IS, UH, RIGHT WHERE EAST GRAND MEETS I 30. UM, YOU, YOU'LL SEE IT IN THE STAR THERE. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. IT'S, UH, THIS AREA IS A VERY INTERESTING LOCATION. IT WAS BUILT OR DEVELOPED KIND OF ORGANICALLY IN THE TWENTIES, JUST SOUTH OF HERE. WAS A BIG FORD, UH, ASSEMBLY PLANT THAT DURING, UH, WORLD WAR II WAS A DEFENSE DEPARTMENT WHERE THEY, THEY MADE TANKS AND EVERYTHING, AND THIS NEIGHBORHOOD JUST KIND OF GREW UP OVER IT. THIS IS THE COMMERCIAL AREA OF WHAT IS NOW MOUNT AUBURN, UH, THE SOUTHERN END OF MOUNT AUBURN. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, THE LOT WIDTHS AND, UH, DEPTHS AND THE DEPTHS ARE ABOUT THE SAME, BUT PEOPLE KIND OF BOUGHT WHAT THEY COULD AFFORD AND MADE A, A BUILDING AND IT WAS A COMMERCIAL AREA, OFFICE AREA, A A MERCANTILE AREA, A LOT OF RESTAURANTS. AND IT STILL IS, IT'S, UH, A SOMETHING THAT URBAN PLANNERS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO REPLICATE, UH, EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN AN URBAN PLANNER, IS HOW TO CREATE A WALKABLE MIXED USE AREA LIKE THIS, UH, AND MAKE IT FEEL ORGANIC. WELL, THIS, THIS AREA DOES THAT ALREADY. UH, OUR, OUR PROPERTY IS IN THE GREEN. IT'S A LONG NARROW BUILDING THAT WAS BUILT IN 1926. ORIGINALLY IT WAS A RETAIL, IT HAD AN A RETAIL CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY UNTIL, UH, THE EARLY NINETIES. AND THAT AT THAT POINT, IT, UH, TRANSFERRED OVER TO AN OFFICE AND BECAME ONE OF THOSE PAYDAY LENDERS. UH, AS A LOT OF BUILDINGS DID APPEAR AS MR. THOMPSON WAS EXPLAINED EARLIER WITH DELTA CREDITS. SO THIS IS BUILT BEFORE THE CITY HAD REQUIREMENTS FOR, UH, PARKING. SO WHEN THE CITY ADOPTED PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN ORDER TO KEEP OLD BUILDINGS ACTIVE AND OCCUPIED, THEY SAID WHATEVER YOUR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY WAS FOR, AT THE TIME WE ADOPTED THESE REGULATIONS. THAT IS HOW MANY PARKING PLACES YOU HAVE, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE THERE OR NOT, THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO OPERATE. SO WHAT HAPPENED IS, WHEN THIS PERSON CHANGED FROM A RETAIL TO AN OFFICE CEO, HE LOST THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT, WHAT A RETAIL PARKS AT IS, WHICH IS ONE SPACE PER 200 SQUARE FEET AND AN OFFICE, WHICH IS ONE SPACE PER 333 SQUARE FEET. SO HE LOST THAT DIFFERENCE. SO NOW HE CAN ONLY OPERATE AS AN OFFICE OR SOMETHING THAT PARKS AT MORE THAN ONE TO 3, 3 3, WHICH IS THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT'S ALLOWED HERE IS A, A FURNITURE STORE. SO OUR REQUEST IS TO BASICALLY GRANT US BACK THOSE DELTA CREDITS WHEN THAT WE LOST, WHEN WE, UM, REZONED OR WHEN WE REDID THE PROPERTY. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. CHANGE OF CO. SO THIS IS A, A SITE PLAN. AND NOTICE THE LITTLE AREA IN THE BACK. I'LL GET TO THAT JUST A SECOND, WHICH YOU SAY WE WILL. MAYBE YOU CAN PUT A COUPLE PARKING SPACES THERE. WE DON'T HAVE THE ROOM. AND YOU'LL SEE A, A SCARY PHOTO IN JUST A FEW MINUTES. THAT WILL FURTHER SAY THAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. NEXT, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. NOW, THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SLIDES. THIS IS A, UH, A STREET, A THE STREET CAR SYSTEM IN DALLAS IN THE LATE TWENTIES. UH, RIGHT WHERE IT SAYS NUMBER 18 THERE, THAT IS WHERE THE BIG FORD PLANT WAS AND EMPLOYED ALL THE PEOPLE DOWN FROM JUBILEE PARK, MOUNT AUBURN. AND EVERYBODY IN THIS AREA THAT WAS BEFORE I 30 CAME THROUGH, WE'RE IN THE GREEN. AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS A HISTORIC STREETCAR NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE PEOPLE WALKED AND THEY STILL DO. BUT IT WAS NOT DESIGNED AROUND THE AUTOMOBILE. IT WAS DESIGNED WHERE PEOPLE TOOK THE STREETCAR. AND SO, UM, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO REPLICATE. SO I THINK, UH, WE ARE IN A POSITION NOW OF BEING ABLE TO, UM, ALLOW THIS GENTLEMAN FLEXIBILITY TO HIS BUILDING AFTER COVID, PEOPLE STOP GOING TO OFFICES. AND SO ANYTHING THAT HAS A CAN ONLY PUT AN OFFICE IN THIS BLOCK IS HARD TO LOCATE AND OCCUPY BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NOT A NICE OFFICE ENVIRONMENT ANYMORE. UH, THE CITY ALSO HAS NEW REGULATIONS FOR ALTERNATIVE FINANCING. UH, ESTABLISHMENTS OR PAYDAY LOANS MAKES IT VERY HARD. YOU HAVE TO GET A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT. SO THIS AREA'S NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, IS REALLY GETTING BACK TO ITS ROOTS WHERE YOU'RE HAVING SOME OFFICE, A LOT OF PERSONAL SERVICE, A LOT OF RESTAURANTS. ONE THING WE HAVE GOING FOR US, IF YOU LOOK JUST TO THE LEFT, THERE'S A PARKING LOT THERE. UM, WHEN I WENT IN THERE, THERE WAS NO SIGNS SAYING, UH, YOU CAN'T PARK HERE. BUT THERE WAS ALSO NO SIGNS WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, A PLACE WHERE YOU PAY TO PARK. SO I CHECKED THE CO IT DOES NOT HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR A COMMERCIAL PARKING LOT, BUT IT'S OPEN FOR PEOPLE TO PARK SHOULD THEY NEED TO. UH, ANOTHER THING TO NOTE IS THOSE SIGNS IN THE FRONT ARE, UH, CAN I GET TWO MINUTES? THEY, THEY, [03:25:01] THEY LIMIT PARKING TO TWO HOURS. SO THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS THAT HELPS IN THAT THE OPERATOR OR THE EMPLOYEES CAN'T PARK THERE AND TAKE UP THE PARKING SPACES, UH, ALL DAY LONG. THERE'S THIS THING THING ABOUT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL AS PEOPLE PARK ONCE AND THEY OFTEN GO TO MORE THAN ONE, ONE OPERATION. SO, BUT THE CARS CIRCLE OUT EVERY TWO HOURS. THE CARS HAVE TO BE GONE. UM, AND THERE IS PARKING TO THE LEFT, TO THE, THE NORTH OF US. IT'S, UH, ON THE AERIAL THAT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE HOUSES. UH, IT'S NOT, IT'S ZONED OFFICE. AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THAT'S, UH, THIS IS RIGHT WHERE CAL'S IS THE, UH, THE LARGE TEMPLE FOR THE, THE HARA, KRISHNAS AND RESTAURANT. THEY OWN ALL THAT PROPERTY. THIS ACTUALLY IS BASICALLY A CAMPUS FOR THEM WHERE THEY DO LIVE. SOME PEOPLE LIVE THERE, BUT THEY ALSO TEACH CLASSES THERE. THEY HAVE A BAKERY THERE. SO IT'S NOT A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD PER SE, WHERE IF PEOPLE CAN'T PARK HERE, THEY'RE GONNA GO PARK IN A, IN FRONT OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING INTO MORE OF A COMMERCIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, EVEN THOUGH A LOT OF THE COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS ARE IN HOMES. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UM, THIS IS ANOTHER SHOT JUST LOOKING FARTHER NORTH. YOU CAN SEE IT'S, IT'S REALLY AN ACTIVE STREET, BUT THERE ARE PLACES TO PARK. UH, YOU KNOW, THE CARS DO CYCLE UP. I ACTUALLY GO TO A RESTAURANT JUST TO THE NORTHEAST OF HERE. UH, VERY INTERESTING. IT'S A JAPANESE MEXICAN FUSION RESTAURANT. UH, DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S POPULAR. BUT THIS AREA IS, IS REVIVING. PEOPLE ARE, ARE PUTTING MONEY INTO IT. BUT THE PROBLEM IS ONLY THING WE CAN PUT IN OUR PROPERTY IS OFFICE. WE'RE SEEKING YOUR HELP TO BE ABLE TO PUT, UH, PERSONAL SERVICE USE IN THERE AS WELL. WHAT PERSONAL SERVICE? I DON'T KNOW. UH, THEY ALL PARKED, ALL PERSONAL SERVICES PARKED THE SAME AT ONE TO 200, BUT THE PROPERTY'S BEEN FOR LEASE. AND, UH, WE CAN'T GET A LEASE ON IT UNTIL WE CAN PROVIDE PARKING. WE CAN'T PROVIDE PARKING UNTIL, UH, FOR A PERSONAL SERVICE USE UNTIL, OR UNLESS IT'S, UH, REQUEST IS APPROVED. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. UH, MORRIS, THIS NEXT SLIDE. THIS IS A SCARY SLIDE. UH, NEXT ONE. THAT'S THE, SHOULD WE BE ABLE TO FIT ONE PARKING SPACE IN THE ALLEY? THIS IS WHERE THEY'D HAVE TO COME OUT ON ONTO, UH, GRAHAM STREET. UH, CLEARLY NOT A SAFE SITUATION. WE DON'T MEET ANY OF THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLES. THAT BUILDING DOESN'T. SO COMING IN, THEY COULDN'T SEE ANY PEDESTRIANS COMING, UH, FROM THE LEFT. COULDN'T SEE ANY CARS COMING FROM THE RIGHT. SO EVEN IF WE COULD FIT ONE PARKING SPACE IN THE ALLEY, IT'S A NARROW ALLEY. ONE WAY THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME OUT THIS WAY AND THAT WOULD NOT BE SAFE. SO, IN SUMMING IT UP, I HOPE YOU CAN SUPPORT THIS REQUEST. IT'S A VIBRANT NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S OPERATED LIKE THIS SINCE THE TWENTIES OR THE 1920S NOT, AND, UH, WE DO HAVE A PARKING LOT NEXT TO US. AND THE, THE PARKING DOES CIRCULATE OUT A LOT IN THIS AREA. UH, I HOPE YOU CAN SUPPORT IT. I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, SIR. UH, QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT, MS. HAYDEN? SO JUST TO CONFIRM, ON EAST GRAND, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET, THE PARKING, THE, THE ANGLE PARKING THAT'S THERE, UM, IT'S NOT RESTRICTED TO CERTAIN BI BUSINESSES. NO, IT'S NOT. UH, AND IF IT'S, IF IT, IF THE SIGNS ARE THERE, THEY'RE ILLEGAL. UH, THE, IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, YOUR PARKING HAS TO BE UN OPEN AND UNRESERVED. UH, SO ANYBODY THAT HAS THOSE SIGNS OUT THAT SAYS RESERVED FOR ROB'S BAKERY, THEY'RE TECHNICALLY NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. AND YOU CAN PARK THERE AND NOT GET IN TROUBLE. UH, THAT'S IN THE CITY CODE, BUT OKAY. PEOPLE PUT THOSE SIGNS UP ANYWAY. NO ONE COMPLAINS. OKAY, THANKS. OKAY. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. SURE. I'LL START OFF BY SAYING I'M NOT CONVINCED. UM, SORRY. UM, I I I I'M VERY SKEPTICAL OF THE WHOLE DELTA PARKING CREDIT DEAL. UH, I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT PERSONAL SERVICE USES ARE THERE UNDER THE CODE BECAUSE IF WE, AS I SAID IN THE BRIEFING THIS MORNING, IF WE WERE TO GRANT THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION, WE'RE GRANTING IT FOR ANY AND ALL PERSONAL SERVICE USES. IF IT'S OUTSIDE PERSONAL SERVICE, THE STAFF SAID IT, THE PARKING WOULD TERMINATE THAT. RIGHT. WHAT YOU ALL SAID THIS MORNING, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO, WELL, THE PARKING, SO JUST A MINUTE. OKAY. SO THE WHOLE ISSUE OF PERSONAL SERVICE USES IS CONCERNING ME. ONE, TWO, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THIS DELTA CREDITS OR NOT. THREE, OUR CRITERIA VERY CLEARLY SAYS THAT THE, THAT THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THE USE DOES NOT WARRANT THE NUMBER OF WALL STREET PARKING SPACES. YOU HAVE 3,277 SQUARE FEET. WE WERE TOLD THAT'S A LOT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR PER AND UN. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PERSONAL SERVICE USES [03:30:01] ARE THERE. 90, 150. IS THERE, IS THERE SUCH A NUMBER? IS THERE A LOT? THERE'S A LOT. IT'S QUITE A FEW. AND WE'RE NOT DESIGNATING WHICH PERSONAL SERVICE. THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS. THAT'S THE ZONING YOU HAVE THERE. UM, AND WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASE TRAFFIC CONGESTION. YOU MENTIONED TO MS. HAYDEN, UH, YOU CONFIRMED TO MS. HAYDEN THAT, UH, NONE OF THE PARKING SPACES ON EITHER SIDE OF GRAND ARE SPECIFIC TO A PIECE OF PROPERTY, WHICH MEANS IT'S RUSSIAN ROULETTE. YOU MENTIONED THE PARKING LOT NEXT DOOR TO IT. UH, AT OUR, ON OUR VISUAL WE HAVE THIS MORNING HAD A BIG FOR SALE SIGN ON IT. . YEAH. YEAH. SO YOU'LL GET A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO MY DIATRIBE. UH, AND THEN WHEN I LOOK AT THE OWNERSHIP LISTING, THAT'S IN OUR PACKET, UH, THAT PARKING LOT THAT YOU SPEAK OF, WHICH IS NUMBER EIGHT, IS MORGAN PARK LIMITED? UH, NOW I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A PERSON AND ENTITY OR IF THAT'S FOR PARKING, BUT, UH, I'M INTERESTING THAT THEY DIDN'T RESPOND TO THE NOTIFICATION DEAL AS FAR AS PARKING. I MEAN, I WOULD THINK I'S JUST INTERESTED. WE HAD NO RESPONSES ACTUALLY, WHICH IS EVEN MORE, YOU GOT ONE TO THE, DID WE GET ONE? I DIDN'T RECORD IN ONE WHO, OH, I APOLOGIZE. NUMBER FOUR, WHICH IS DOWN THE, UH, IT'S 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6 TENANTS TO THE NORTH. SO I'M TRYING TO ZERO IN ON, ON OUR CRITERIA. OUR CRITERIA IS THAT THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED WILL NOT WARRANT OFF STREET PARKING SPACES. THAT THAT WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASE CONGESTION. AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME, YOU HAVEN'T MADE ANY OF THOSE CHECK MARKS. WELL, DARN, THAT'S NOT MY INTENT WAS TO, OF COURSE, NOT AHEAD, BUT HIT SOME OF THE MARKS. SO, BUT I'M SAYING THAT TO YOU TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO REBUT ANY, OR ANY OR ALL OF MY CONCERNS. SO, AND I THINK I SPOKE TO SOME OF THESE THIS MORNING, BUT SO LET, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PARKING LOT NEXT TO US. IT COULD GO AWAY. YES. THAT PROPERTY'S FOR SALE. ALL PROPERTIES FOR SALE IN DALLAS. IT COULD GO AWAY, BUT IT HAS AN ACTIVE FOR SALE SIGN ON. I THAT'S WHAT I SAID. IT COULD, IT COULD BE SOLD AND THAT PARKING CAN GO AWAY. WE'RE NOT INVOLVED IN THE PARKING AGREEMENT WITH THEM. SO IF IT GOES AWAY, IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY OUR REQUIRED PARKING, IT JUST MIGHT TAKE AWAY SOME CONVENIENT PARKING. SO I ADMIT THAT WE CAN'T COUNT ON THAT PARKING. CORRECT. OKAY. UM, PERSONAL SERVICE USES, THE CITY HAS A, A BIG U LIST OF PERSONAL SERVICE USES. THEY'RE NAIL SALONS, GYMS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, THINGS WHERE PEOPLE COME IN BUT DON'T STAY A LONG TIME. THEY COME IN AND GET A SERVICE DONE, DRY CLEANING, THAT KIND OF STUFF. YEP. AND THEN GO, UM, THIS, THIS PROPERTY'S BEEN FOR LEASED FOR A LONG TIME AND WE DON'T HAVE A TENANT IN THERE, SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT USE IS GONNA GO IN THERE, BUT WE DO SUSPECT IT'S GONNA BE A PERSONAL SERVICE USE IF THIS SHOULD THIS BE APPROVED. AND A RETAIL USE WANTED TO COME IN, THEY COULDN'T, EVEN THOUGH THEY PARKED THE SAME BECAUSE THE USE WOULD BE LIMITED TO A PERSONAL SERVICE USE AND NOT A RETAIL USE. SO ON OUR ZONING MAP, MR. BALDWIN, IT SAYS REGIONAL RETAIL. THAT IS THE UNDERLYING ZONING ON THE PROPERTY. ALL RIGHT. SO IS PERSONAL SERVICE A SUBSET OF REGIONAL RETAIL OR RETAIL REGIONAL OR REGIONAL RETAIL SUBSET OF PERSONAL SERVICES? SO A REGIONAL RETAIL IS THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION. AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A PRETTY INTENSIVE, UH, ZONING CLASSIFICATION. IT'S THE MOST INTENSIVE RE RETAIL ZONING. YOU COULD ACTUALLY SELL CARS IN THAT, THAT DISTRICT IN REGIONAL AND RR NORTH PARK MALLS ZONED RR. SO, OKAY. UM, UH, THE CITY OF DALLAS HAS SPECIFIC USES THAT ARE ALLOWED IN THERE. YEP. AND SOME ARE LISTED AS RETAIL AND PERSONAL SERVICE USES, WHICH IS A CLASSIFICATION. SO IT SAYS, SO PERSONAL SERVICES IS A SUBSET OF RR NO SUBS. IT, IT'S A SUBSET OF, UH, THE ZONING USES THAT ARE, WOULD BE ALLOWED UNDER AN RR DISTRICT. OKAY. AND, UH, THE PERSONAL SERVICE USES ARE A WIDE VARIETY OF USES THAT WILL FALL IN THERE. BUT THE CITY IS DEEMED IT REASONABLE TO THINK THAT THEY ALL PARK THE SAME AT ONE TO 200. IF THERE WAS SOME PERSONAL SERVICE USES THAT THEY THOUGHT NEEDED TO PARK AT MORE OR LESS THAN ONE TO 200, THEY WOULD'VE CALLED THOSE OUT AS A SPECIFIC USE. WE'RE ASKING FOR PERSONAL SERVICE USES. AGAIN, SHOULD THIS BE APPROVED, THEN WE COULD PUT OFFICE USES THERE OR PERSONAL SERVICE USES THERE. IF WE PUT AN OFFICE USE IN THERE AGAIN, THEN EVERYTHING I'M DOING TODAY IS FOR N AND WE, WE LOSE OUR ABILITY. WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS THE ABILITY TO TRY TO KEEP THIS BUILDING ALIVE. UH, THE WORST THING IN MY MIND THAT COULD HAPPEN IS WE'RE TAKING OFF PART OF THIS BUILDING TO PUT PARKING IN, AND THEN THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TO GO OUT THAT SCARY ALLEY OR THE WHOLE BUILDING COMES DOWN AND GETS SOLD [03:35:01] WITH THE PROPERTY NEXT TO US. AND WE'RE TEARING OUT THE FABRIC OF A HISTORIC MERCANTILE MIXED USE MERCANTILE AREA. UM, THIS IS NOT A REAL GREAT OFFICE AREA FOR TWO REASONS. ONE, THE BUILDINGS ARE OLD. THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE THE, UH, AMENITIES THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR. TWO, ACTUALLY, JUST THREE, TWO, UM, YOU KNOW, IF I WAS TO GO START A SMALL OFFICE IN THIS AREA, AND I LIVE GENERALLY IN EAST DALLAS, THIS WOULD NOT BE THE AREA I GO BECAUSE, UM, I WOULD WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING WHERE I'M, IF I'M HAVING CLIENTS COME IN THAT IS MORE ATTRACTIVE, EITHER GETTING IN AND OUT OF RIGHT. AND, AND, UH, THREE, UH, THERE IS OFFICE. A LOT OF THESE PLACES, LIKE I SAID, TURNED TO OFFICE AND PAYDAY LOANS, UH, IN THE NINETIES BEFORE THE CITY REGULATED 'EM. UM, AND SO THE LOT OF, THESE, LOT OF BUILDINGS ARE IN THE SAME POSITION, BUT THEY CAN ONLY BE USED FOR OFFICE BUILDINGS. WE'RE ASKING YOUR HELP TO, I KNOW THERE'S CONCERN ABOUT DELTA CREDITS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE CITY HAS AND WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THEM, WHETHER OR NOT YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY HAS. IT'S INTERESTING. THE STAFF'S SUBMITTAL SHEET IN THE BOTTOM SAYS, PROOF OF DELTA CREDITS. IN OTHER WORDS, BEGGING THE QUESTION , BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE ENIGMA I THINK WE HEARD THIS MORNING. IMAGINARY. WELL, THEY ARE, ISN'T THAT THE TERM I HEARD? THEY'RE IT'S IMAGINARY. THEY'RE NOT THERE. OKAY. BUT WELL, PRECISELY MY, MY SU MY SUSPECT ON THAT, I GUESS. UH, BUT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO BE COUNTED OR ELSE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE VACANT BUILDINGS. I, I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THAT'S PART OF THE, THE TOTALITY OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE PULLED TOGETHER. CORRECT. IN HEARING A CASE. BUT AGAIN, MY CRITERIA IS THAT THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THE USE DOES NOT WARRANT THE NUMBER OF OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED. AND THAT THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASE TRAFFIC TRAFFIC CONGESTION. AND I'M SAYING TO YOU, I DON'T THINK YOU'VE MET THE BURDEN. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I'LL, I'LL MOVE ON TO OTHER, A OTHER BOARD MEMBERS IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS. WHAT ARE THE QUESTIONS, MS. DAVIS? WHAT OTHER, UM, PARKING SOLUTIONS HAVE YOU LOOKED AT? UH, BESIDES JUST PARKING RANDOMLY ON A STREET? WHAT OTHER DESIGNATED PARKING ARE YOU ABLE TO RENT OR PURCHASE OR SUPPLY TO, TO, BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING FOR FOUR SPACES. THAT'S A, THAT'S A BIG ASK. SO WHAT, WHAT OTHER SOLUTIONS HAVE YOU RESEARCHED? WELL, UM, THERE'S NOT, UH, THE INTERESTING THING IS IF YOU GO BACK AND THINK ABOUT THAT, UH, AERIAL I SHOWED YOU, ALL THOSE LITTLE AREAS CHOPPED UP, THOSE ARE ALL OWNED BY INDIVIDUALS, DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS. SOME OF THEM HAVE ROOM IN THE BACK. THIS BUILDING DOES NOT. WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIT ONE, MAYBE TWO OUT THERE, BUT THEN WE'RE GOING DOWN A UNIMPROVED ALLEY IN ONTO A, A DANGEROUS SITUATION THAT THAT'S IT. SO EVERYTHING BEHIND US IS ALL OWNED BY THE RY CHRISTMAS. THEY, THEY DON'T WANT, UH, TO LEASE PARKING TO US. 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, WHEN WE GET INTO A PARKING AGREEMENT THAT YOU, YOU SAY THAT I'M, I'M USING YOUR PARKING SPACES FOR MY USE. AND YOU CAN EITHER SAY THERE'S TWO WAYS YOU CAN DO IT. YOU HAVE A SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT SAYING, I GET 'EM FROM NINE TO FIVE, AND YOU GET 'EM AFTER THAT. OR I GET 'EM 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. EITHER WAY THAT GOES INTO THE DEED RECORDS RECORDED INTO DEED RECORDS. AND NO ONE CAN USE THAT PARKING OUTSIDE THOSE RULES. SO ANYBODY, UH, WHO'S VOLUNTEERING TO ENTER INTO ONE OF THOSE IS ENCUMBERING THEIR PROPERTY POTENTIALLY FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. 'CAUSE THEY'RE VERY HARD. ONCE THEY'RE RECORDED, THEY'RE VERY HARD TO TERMINATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GET BOTH PARTIES TO AGREE TO TERMINATE 'EM. UM, AND I WOULD NEVER ADVISE ANY OF MY CLIENTS TO ENTER INTO A PARKING AGREEMENT UNLESS IT'S WITH THEMSELVES. BECAUSE ONCE, ONCE SOMEBODY'S IN, IT'S HARD TO GET 'EM OUT. SO THERE'S REALLY NOT A WHOLE LOT OF, UM, ABILITY TO GET OFF STREET PARKING, PARKING LOTS OR ANYTHING. UM, AND NOT JUST THE NATURE OF URBAN AREAS, YOU KNOW, UM, THE, EVERYBODY SAYS IN AT LEAST THE URBAN PLANNING WORLD, YOU SHOULD BE MORE LIKE CHICAGO. YOU SHOULD BE MORE LIKE NEW YORK. WE WANNA LIVE ABOVE THE STORE. THAT KIND OF STUFF. WELL, I LIVED IN CHICAGO AND I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAD A CAR. BUT THE REASON THAT WORKED IN CHICAGO, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH PARKING, AND THE PARKING WAS VERY EXPENSIVE. PEOPLE CAN BE TRAINED TO NOT GO INTO AREAS THAT, UH, IT'S DIFFICULT TO PARK. I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I GO DOWN A DEEP EL OR BISHOP ARTS, I TAKE AN UBER BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE TO TO PARK. I DON'T LIKE TO PAY TO PARK. I DON'T LIKE CIRCLING THE NEIGHBOR TRYING TO FIND A PLACE TO PARK. THAT'S WHY A LOT OF TIMES WE'RE VERY HESITANT TO [03:40:01] DO SPARK PARK SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA, CASE BY CASE. EVERYTHING I, YES, I'VE IN FRONT OF THIS, BUT THAT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S, I KNOW THAT'S WHY THERE'S HESITATION. BUT THE, THE QUESTION IS, IS IT WORTH LOSING A HISTORIC BUILDING THAT WAS BUILT OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, PART OF A FABRIC OF A STREET OVER FOUR PARKING SPACES? THAT THAT'S A DECISION I'M ASKING YOU TO MAKE. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN, IN LOWER GREENVILLE. THERE'S NOT A PARKING PROBLEM. THERE'S A PERCEIVED PARKING PROBLEM. THERE'S NOT A PARKING PROBLEM BECAUSE ALL THAT PROPERTY IN THAT AREA OFF OF GREENVILLE IS ZONED COMMUNITY RETAIL. AND WHEN THE DEVELOPERS, WHICH THERE'S ONLY REALLY TWO PROPERTY OWNERS DOWN THERE, WHEN THEY NEED NEW PARKING, THEY TURN DOWN A HOUSE AND BUILD A PARKING LOT. UM, THAT COULD HAPPEN HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A NARROW LOT. THEY'RE NOT, IT'S NOT GONNA BE EFFICIENT. THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET MANY PARKING SPACES, BUT THAT'S IT. YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE'RE AMERICANS AND WE'RE FROM TEXAS. WE WANNA BE ABLE TO PARK. WE WANT FREE PARKING SPACES. WE WANT 'EM ACCESSIBLE. WE WANT 'EM ALL THE TIME. YOU KNOW WHAT'S INTERESTING? THERE IS THREE PARKING SPACES FOR EACH OF US. I GOT A PARKING SPACE AT HOME. I GOT A PARKING SPACE AT THE OFFICE, AND I GOT A PARKING SPACE AND I COME DOWN HERE. UH, SO, UH, I'M GONNA CUT YOU OFF THERE BECAUSE MY, MY QUESTION REALLY WASN'T THE ANSWER. SO I'M GONNA ASK YOU A SECOND QUESTION. ARE YOU WILLING TO LOSE THIS POTENTIAL LEASE IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T GUARANTEE FOUR SPACES? BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S A BIG ASK OF US. WE DON'T HAVE A LEASE WITHOUT, WITHOUT THESE FOUR SPACES. MM-HMM. , WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE A, UH, BEING ABLE TO, UH, ADVERTISE THIS FOR AN OFFICE AND MAYBE IT'LL BE LEASED, MAYBE IT WON'T. OKAY. THANK YOU. WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE FOR THE APPLICANT, MR. KOVI? SO I'M UNCLEAR. YOU, YOU HAVE A PERSPECTIVE TENANT OR YOU NOT? NO, SIR. NO, WE'RE TRYING TO GET AN OPEN TENANT. THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF VACANCIES DOWN THERE. APOLOGIZE, COULD YOU REPEAT? I JUST WAS TALKING TO THE BOARD ATTORNEY ABOUT SOMETHING. I'M APOLOGIZING. I ASKED WHETHER THERE WAS A PERSPECTIVE TENANT. OH. AND YOUR ANSWER WAS NOT THAT I KNOW OF. OKAY. THANK YOU MS. HAYDEN. SO, I GUESS THE WAY I'M LOOKING AT THIS IS THERE'S AN OWNER OF THIS BUILDING. THEY WANT, THEY WANNA USE THIS BUILDING FOR PERSONAL SERVICES. THERE'S A CERTAIN, AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT THIS BUILDING WILL BE USED FOR, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE SOME KIND OF BARKING 3,277 SQUARE FEET. RIGHT? SO WE'RE KIND OF FACED WITH, DO WE APPROVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHICH IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PARKING, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTION, UM, TO ALLOW THIS BUILDING TO BE USED. OR DO WE NOT APPROVE THIS AND HAVE A VACANT BUILDING? I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF OPTIONS HERE. AND MAYBE THIS IS A DISCUSSION FOR US WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT. BUT I MEAN, UNLESS YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT. NO, I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY IT. YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT WE ONLY NEEDED ONE PARKING SPACE. I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT WE HAD LOTS OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THIS BUILDING. THE TRUTH IS, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A VIBRANT AREA, BUT IT'S NOT, UH, NOT ALL SPACES ARE FULL. UH, IT NEEDS SOME HELP. UM, IT WAS BUILT BEFORE CARS WERE PRE PREVALENT AND IT'S SUFFERING FOR IT NOW. SO I HOPE YOU CAN SUPPORT THIS. I, I, I CLEARLY UNDERSTAND Y'ALL'S CONCERNS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, SO WE HAVE TO BALANCE, YOU KNOW, INCONVENIENCE OF SOMEBODY. YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT FREE MARKET, IF I DON'T, LIKE, IF IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT TO PARK SOMEWHERE, I WON'T GO. I'M NOT GONNA GO DRIVE AROUND. I'M NOT GONNA GO PARK THREE BLOCKS AWAY TO, YOU KNOW, TO GO GET MY NAILS DONE WHILE I DON'T GET MY NAILS DONE. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THERE'S A LOT MORE CONVENIENT PLACES TO GO DO IT. BUT WITHOUT GIVING THIS OWNER AN OPPORTUNITY TO AT LEAST TRY TO OCCUPY HIS BUILDING WITH SOMETHING BESIDES AN OFFICE, WE ARE CONDEMNING THAT BUILDING DID NOT BE PRODUCTIVE RESPECTIVELY. THE WHOEVER THE OWNER WAS WHO PURCHASED THE BUILDING, SHOULD HAVE DONE THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND KNOW WHAT THE LIMITATIONS OF THE ROOF, OF THE WALLS, OF THE PLUMBING, OF THE ELECTRICITY, OF THE SIDEWALK, OF THE CRIME, OF THE, THE RETAIL TRAFFIC. AND OOPS, THE PARKING FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES AND OR FOR, UH, THEY'RE CUSTOMERS. AND, UH, THE WORLD IS REPLETE WITH TRANSACTIONS THAT OCCUR IN REAL ESTATE THAT ARE SUBJECT TO ZONING AND USE. AND IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. PEOPLE MAY MAKE A CONTRACT TO BUY A BUILDING SUBJECT TO ZONING, AND THEN THEY WADE THROUGH THE ZONING PROCESS TO CHANGE, WHETHER [03:45:01] IT BE A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS SUBJECT TO PURCHASE, OR WHETHER IT BE A ZONING ISSUE FOR A BROADER THING. SO, UH, BUT THAT'S PART OF THE DUE DILIGENCE ON THE FRONT END. SO THANK YOU. I, I APPRECIATE IT. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. WHAT OTHER DISCUSSION, WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE FOR THE APPLICANT, MS. DAVIS? I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE. IS THERE ANY WAY YOU COULD HAVE, FIND AT LEAST TWO MORE SPOTS? I'M HAPPY IF YOU'D BE GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO LET US HOLD THIS FOR TWO MONTHS FOR, TO, TO TRY. UH, I, I HEARD, I HEARD MS. DAVIS' REQUESTS, I HEARD, UH, MS. HAYDEN'S COMPARISON TO THAT. BUT THE REALITY IN THE END, THE RE THE REALITY IN THE END IS THAT IS PART OF THE PURCHASE PROCESS IN REAL ESTATE. IT'S LIKE WHEN WE HAVE A PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, WE'RE SENSITIVE TO WHAT, HOW DOES THAT OBSTRUCT THE BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY? HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE ALLEY? IS THERE ENOUGH PARKING OR IS IT DISPLACING ON THE STREET? WE DON'T ALLOW PARKING THAT FROM A RESIDENTIAL AREA TO FORCE TO THE STREET. 'CAUSE IT'S OFF STREET PARKING. AND WE'RE VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT. 'CAUSE WE AS A CITY WANNA LIMIT OFF STREET PARKING. UM, YOU KNOW, IT, THAT'S JUST THE NATURE. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THIS RULE. NOW I'M NOT, WED TO, I'M LOOKING AT THE CALCULATIONS PAGE OF THE STAFF. YEAH, NO, THEY, THEY, BUT THEY HAVE ZERO NOW. THEY HAVE ZERO. THERE'S NOTHING NO, THOSE AREN'T GUARANTEED FOR THAT PROPERTY. NO, IT IS NOT, IT'S NOT GUARANTEED. YOU, YOU TESTIFIED THAT ALL UP, UP AND DOWN GRAND. THERE'S NOTHING RESTRICTED BY PROPERTY OWNER. CORRECT? I I SAY IT'S A CITY LAW THAT YOU CANNOT PUT A SIGN UP IN FRONT OF YOUR AND AND SAY, THESE ARE MY TWO SPACES. YEAH. ALTHOUGH THE CITY WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT THESE SPOTS TRADITIONALLY GO WITH A, THAT 3,277 SQUARE FEET. I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT A PERSONAL SERVICE USE WOULD GENERATE. 'CAUSE NO ONE PROVIDED THAT TO US. YOU KNOW, IN THE PREVIOUS CASES IS THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPLICANT. I UNDERSTAND. NOT ON US. I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK, WHAT ARE THE PERSONAL SERVICE USES AND 3,277, HOW DOES THAT, 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO GO TO, WOULD NOT CREATE THE DEMAND, WOULD NOT, UH, CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASED CONGESTION BY VIRTUE OF THE USE. WELL, I'M TRYING TO THINK. PERSONAL SERVICE USE. UH, SO, SO I, I GUARANTEE YOU COMMISSIONER OR COUNCIL CHAIRMAN, IF I HAD A TENANT, I WOULD TELL YOU WHO THAT TENANT WAS AND THAT WAY WE COULD HELP UNDERSTAND WHAT, BUT, BUT MR. BALDWIN, IN ALL DUE RESPECT, WE DON'T GRANT A VARIANCE OR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO ANYTHING BASED ON THE TENANT OR THE OWNER. IT'S ON THE LAND. IT'S, IT CARRIES WITH THE PROPERTY. IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO THE TENANT. IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO THE TENANT. SO WE HAVE TO LOOK FARTHER THAN THE NEXT TENANT OF WHO'S COMING IN THE SPACE. AND SO I LOOKED TO THE NUMBERS. 3,277 SQUARE FEET. HMM. THE, THE STANDARD IS ONE PER 200 HMM. DELTA CREDITS? YES, I KNOW THEY EXIST, BUT THEY'RE IMAGINARY. MY STAFF TOLD US THIS MORNING, YES, THEY'RE CALLED OUT, BUT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THE PICTURES WE SAW. UH, SO THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION, TOTALITY. ALRIGHT, SO, SO I, MR. HOPKOS THEN MS. HAYDEN, AND THEN I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION. THIS IS ALL VERY CONFUSING FOR ME. THESE ARE OPEN PARKING ALL ALONG THE STREET. SAY AGAIN? THIS IS OPEN PARKING. YES. ALL ALONG THE STREET. FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE. SO THESE ARE, THESE ARE SOMEWHAT RHETORICAL QUESTIONS, BUT I HAVE SEVERAL. I WANT TO ASK BEFORE ANYONE ANSWERS BY VIRTUE OF WHAT DO THESE TWO SPOTS IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING THEN GO WITH THAT PROPERTY? I, I ASKED THIS MORNING AT THE, AT THE DISCUSSION, CAN THESE ARE THE, HOW MANY BUSINESSES ARE COUNTING THESE SPACES? HOW MANY TIMES THIS IS, IS THIS THE PRODUCERS ALL OVER AGAIN? AND EVERY PARKING SPOT HAS 16 CLAIMS ON IT? I'M REALLY UNCLEAR WITH HOW THIS ENTIRE THING REALLY WORKS. I WOULD AGREE, MS. HAYDEN. SO I THINK WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MORNING, WHAT THE BOARD ATTORNEY SAID THIS MORNING WAS, I KNOW YOU SAID WE ARE, WE'RE VOTING ON THIS FOR THIS PROPERTY, BUT IT'S ALSO FOR THE USE OF THAT PROPERTY, RIGHT? SO IT'S JUST FOR A PERSONAL SERVICES, WHATEVER GAZILLIONS TYPES OF PERSONAL SERVICES. BUT IT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT VOTING ON IT FOR THE, FOR THE PROPERTY ITSELF. IF THAT USE CHANGES, THAT GOES AWAY, RIGHT? IF THE USE CHANGES. SO IF IT WENT TO OFFICE USE, THEN THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT WELL, IT, WHAT WE WERE TOLD IS THAT, UH, THIS IS, [03:50:01] HOLD ON. IT'S IN REGIONAL RETAIL ZONING AND THE APPLICANT PROPOSED TO CONSTRUCT A MAINTAIN NON-RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE FOR A PERSONAL SERVICE USE. SO THAT'S THE UNDERLYING USE THAT'S AUTHORIZED. THEN I ASK THE STAFF AND THE APPLICANT, WELL, HOW MANY PERSONAL SERVICE USES ARE, GIVE ME AN IDEA WHAT SORT OF PARKING THAT GENERATES. BECAUSE OUR CRITERIA SAYS THAT THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THE USE DOES NOT WARRANT A DI THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES THAT ARE REQUIRED PER THE CODE. THERE'S A DISCONNECT. AND I, THERE'S NO, THERE'S BEEN NO BRIDGE THAT'S BEEN CONNECTED BETWEEN THE TWO. THAT'S WHY I'M UNCONVINCED. SO THAT BEING SAID, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? CAN I RESPOND TO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE PARKING SPACES IN THE FRONT? , YOU'RE PUSHING YOUR LUCK NOW, MR. BALDWIN. I'M, BUT GO AHEAD. 'CAUSE I'M READY FOR A VOTE. I'M NOT TRYING TO PUSH MY LUCK. I'M JUST, JUST SAYING THAT TECHNICALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE SURVEY THAT WAS UP EARLIER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PAGE NUMBERS IN YOUR PACKET. OUR PROPERTY LINE GOES TO THE MIDDLE OF THOSE PROPERTY PARKING SPACES. SO HALF THE PARKING SPACES ARE ON OUR PROPERTY. AND I GUESS IF WE REALLY WANTED TO, WE COULD BLOCK 'EM OFF AND NOT LET ANYBODY USE THEM. BUT THE CITY TECHNICALLY DOES NOT ALLOW US TO COUNT PARKING SPACES FOR COMMERCIAL USES THAT MANEUVER INTO THE PARKING INTO THE STREET TO COUNT TOWARDS THEIR PARKING. SO RESPECTFULLY, WHAT YOU SUBMITTED IS NOT A SURVEY. IT'S, IT DOESN'T HAVE A SURVEYOR STAMP. NO, BUT IT WAS BASED ON A SURVEY. IT'S NOT A SURVEY. IF SURVEY WOULD HAVE A SURVEYOR STAMP. YOU'RE CORRECT. SO IT'S NOT, SO I DIDN'T SAY ANY IF YOU, AS YOU HEARD IN OUR PREVIOUS CASE OR CASES I WAS HERE. YES, YES. SO THEREFORE, I'M, I'M ZERO IN ON WHAT DO I HAVE IN FRONT OF ME BASED ON THE BURDEN TO THE APPLICANT TO PROVE HIS CASE IN ORDER FOR US TO PASS THE THRESHOLD. SO I SEE WHAT THIS SAYS HERE. IT'S KIND OF STRANGE THAT IT GOES HALFWAY INTO THE STREET OR INTO THE DIAGONAL PARKING, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT IT IS, I ALSO SEE A SOLID LINE AT THE END OF THE BUILDING. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO READ AND IT'S NOT A SURVEY. SO I, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE WE SAID IN THE LAST CASE, SHOW US A SURVEY SO WE KNOW CON CONCRETELY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. SO I'M NOT TRYING TO BE COMBATIVE, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, UH, THIS ONE MEMBER IS NOT CONVINCED. SO, MR. HOPKOS, I'M SORRY IF I COULD RE RESPOND TO YOUR RESPONSE. UM, HAVING JUST TOLD US THAT YOU CANNOT PUT OUT A THING THAT SAYS THIS IS RESERVED FOR MY BUSINESS. I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR, WHAT YOUR POINT WAS. I STILL DON'T THINK THE CITY CODE, EVEN IF IT'S ON OUR PROPERTY, ALLOWS US TO, TO, TO RESERVE PARKING SPACES THAT ARE DEEMED PUBLIC SPACES. UH, I'LL DEFER TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, BUT THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION TO IT. HOWEVER, SINCE IT IS OUR PROPERTY, IF WE WANTED TO REMOVE OUR PORTION OF THAT, THOSE SPACES, I THINK WE COULD DO IT. I THINK IT WOULD BE A STUPID THING TO DO BECAUSE IT DOES, YOU KNOW, WE DO OWN HALF THOSE SPACES. BUT IT'S A, A WEIRD SITUATION. 'CAUSE MOST OF THE TIME PARKING IS EITHER OFF STREET OR ON STREET HERE, OR YOU KNOW, IT'S ON SOMEONE'S PROPERTY OR OFF SOMEONE'S PROPERTY. HERE WE'RE, WE'RE HALFWAY THROUGH. UM, AND IT, IT GOES PRETTY MUCH UP AND DOWN THE STREET. AND IT'S COMMON IN SOME PARTS OF LOWER GREENVILLE AS IT IS HERE. DISCUSSION, OR EXCUSE ME, OR NOT DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. I'LL MAKE A MOTION. I MOVE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPEAL NUMBER BDA 2 3 4 DASH ZERO EIGHT ON APPLICATION OF ROB. ROB BALDMAN DENIED THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION OF THE PARKING REGULATIONS REQUESTED BY THIS APPLICANT WITHOUT PREJUDICE BECAUSE OUR EVALUAT OF THE PROPERTY AND THE TESTIMONY SHOWS THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL INCREASE TRAFFIC HAZARDS OR INCREASE TRAFFIC SUGGESTION ON ADJACENT OR NEARBY STREETS. AND THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THE USE WARRANTS, THE NUMBER OF REQUIRED PARKING SPACES. I SO MOVE. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. NARY. UM, MY MOTION WAS TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL THE APPLICANT MET THE BURDEN OF PROOF ONE. NUMBER TWO, THERE IS A REASON WE HAVE PARKING AGREEMENTS, WHETHER IT BE IN DALLAS OR IN HOUSTON OR IN AUSTIN, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE, UH, THEY'RE DIFFICULT OR NOT, IT'S TO GET AROUND THESE SORT OF VERY THINGS IS SO THAT, I MEAN, YES, THERE'S A PARKING LOT NEXT DOOR, BUT IT'S GOT A FOR SALE SIGN ON IT. SO WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER, AND WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT PROPERTY OWNER AND DID NOT HEAR ANY TESTIMONY WHETHER THAT PROPERTY ALLOWS PEOPLE OR NOT, WHETHER THERE'S ANY SORT OF SITUATION. I JUST, WE HEARD TESTIMONY THAT EVEN THE TWO SPACES THAT ARE DRAWN ON THE MAP AREN'T GUARANTEED FOR THE, THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. SO I, I'M JUST UNCONVINCED, UM, I'M JUST UNCONVINCED. SO, UH, MR. NRI, UM, I I CONCUR WITH YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, I ALSO THINK THAT THIS IS, IT'S TOO OPEN ENDED REGARDS TO PERSONAL USE. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE USED [03:55:01] FOR. UM, AND I AGREE WITH YOU, YOUR EARLIER COMMENTS AS A REALTOR, I THINK IT'S UP TO WHOEVER PURCHASED THE PROPERTY TO DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE BEFOREHAND TO RECOGNIZE THE RESTRICTIONS THAT THE PROPERTY MIGHT HAVE. SO TO ME, THIS, THIS APPLICATION IS AN EFFORT TO BETTER MARKET THE PROPERTY, WHICH I, WHICH I AS A, AGAIN, AS A REALTOR I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S JUST OPEN-ENDED. AND, UH, THAT FOR THAT REASON, I'M SUPPORTING THE DENIAL DISCUSSION OF THE MOTION. MS. DAVIS AND THEN MS. HAYDEN, I, I'M STILL UNDECIDED. NORMALLY I WOULD SUPPORT THE MOTION. I'M LEANING TOWARD NOT SUPPORTING THE MOTION. UM, SIMPLY BECAUSE I, I, FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T, I MEAN, TO YOUR POINT, MR. NRI, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SPACE IS GONNA BE USED FOR. AND I KNOW THAT WE WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE THAT AS A GUIDELINE ANYWAY. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT'S GONNA CAUSE A TRAFFIC HAZARD, UM, NOT HAVING THOSE ADDITIONAL SPOTS. I JUST DON'T. AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE FACED WITH DO WE LET THIS REMAIN, YOU KNOW, OPEN AND VACANT AND AN EYESORE, OR DO WE GIVE SOMEBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING IN A BUSINESS AND TO BRING IN SOME VITALITY TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH. UM, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T THINK IT CONSTITUTES A TRAFFIC HAZARD. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THIS BIG PILE UP JUST BECAUSE THERE AREN'T A COUPLE OF EXTRA SPACES IN FRONT OF THE SPACE. THANK YOU MS. DAVIS. MS. HAYDEN, YOU KNOW, I, I AGREE WITH MS. DAVIS. I, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS WOULD CONSTITUTE A TRAFFIC HAZARD. UM, I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA AND, AND I DON'T, I JUST DON'T SEE THAT. UM, THE, UM, DOES IT, DOES THIS USE WARRANT THE NUMBER OF OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED? THAT'S A CHALLENGING PART BECAUSE PERSONAL SERVICE USES CAN BE SO DIVERSE AND WE DON'T REALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, OUR A PULSE ON WHAT EXACTLY THAT PERSONAL SERVICE USE WILL BE. SO I THINK THAT'S THE CHALLENGING PART. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, IN THEORY, I, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF A VACANT BUILDING JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING IN AN, IN AN OLD PART OF EAST DALLAS THAT JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE ROOM FOR THAT. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE ALL THESE BUILDINGS VACANT BECAUSE WE CAN'T MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENT? I DON'T LIKE THAT IDEA EITHER. SO I'M HAVING A, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THIS ONE AS WELL. THANK YOU MS. HAYDEN. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MR. HOP? I WOULD JUST HAD A LITTLE LEVITY. IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEONE TO PUT A STREET CAR BACK IN THERE. , ARE YOU VOLUNTEERING? YEAH. UH, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OF THE MOTION? THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR, UM, BDA 2 3 4 DASH 0 8 0 IS TO DENY THE REQUEST FOR THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE PARKING, UH, FROM THE PARKING REGULATIONS WITHOUT PREJUDICE HEARING MO NO MORE DISCUSSION. THE BOARD SECRETARY WILL CALL A VOTE. THE MOTION IS TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE. MS. DAVIS? NO. MS. HAYDEN? NO. MR. OVITZ? YES. MR. N. AYE. MR. CHAIR. AYE. MOTION PASSES TO DENY THREE TO TWO IN THE CASE OF BDA 2 3 4 DASH EIGHT ZERO. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT BY A VOTE OF THREE TO TWO, DENIED THE REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION WITHOUT PREJUDICE. UH, YOU'LL GET A LETTER FROM OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR SHORTLY. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, BOARD MEMBERS, THAT IS THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA. OUR NEXT MEETING IS TUESDAY, JULY 16TH AT 10:00 AM WE HAVE SIX CASES ON THE AGENDA CORRECTION. OH SIX. 'CAUSE WE HELD THAT THE CASE WE HELD OVER, WE HELD TWO CASES OVER TO AUGUST. TO AUGUST TO AUGUST, CORRECT? RIGHT. DID WE HOLD, WE HOLD BOTH CASES TO AUGUST. IS THAT RIGHT GUYS? YES. OKAY. SO WE HAVE SIX CASES IN JULY. IT'S AT 10:00 AM. UM, ANY OTHER, UH, ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FOR TODAY? HEARING NONE THE CHAIR TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVED. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. NARY AND SECONDED. SECOND. SECONDED BY MS. DAVIS. UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. IT'S 4:02 PM ON THE 18TH OF JUNE. BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, PANELIZED HEREBY ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.