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9:39 AM[Ethics Advisory Commission Meeting: Evidentiary Hearing on June 27, 2024.]
ON JUNE 27TH.THIS IS AN EVIDENTIARY HEARING OF THE ETHICS ADVISORY COMMISSION.
UH, IT'S, THE COMMISSION IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER.
UH, THIS IS A HEARING OF COMPLAINTS AGAINST OSCAR SEHA AND RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
UH, CURRENT EMPLOYEES IN BUILDING SERVICES.
I WILL SERVE AS CHAIR OF TODAY'S HEARING PANEL.
LET THE RECORD REFLECT A QUORUM OF THE PANEL AS PRESENT.
I'LL ASK THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PANEL TO STATE THEIR NAMES FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.
AND AGAIN, I APOLOGIES FOR MY TARDINESS THIS MORNING.
AND WOULD THE RESPONDENTS AND THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, IF ANY, STATE THEIR NAMES FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE? RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS YOUR NAME? OSCAR SAHA.
UH, WILL THE, ANY REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE STATE THEIR NAMES TO THE RECORD, PLEASE? BART BEAVERS.
LAURA PHELAN, THOSE PRESENT FROM THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE? NANCY SANZ, SAVA MAR MEIR SAVA MARTINEZ.
AND THOSE PRESENT FROM THE, UH, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? LAURA MORRISON.
UH, LEGAL ADVISOR TO THE PANEL.
MADAM UH, MADAM SECRETARY, ARE THERE ANY SPEAKERS FOR ON TODAY'S AGENDA? THERE ARE NO SPEAKERS TODAY.
ARE THERE WITNESSES THAT ARE GOING TO TESTIFY TODAY? YES, WE HAVE THREE.
AND RESPONDENT, UH, OR DO YOU ANYONE OR YOU ALL PLAN TO, UH, UH, WI UH, TESTIFY AS WITNESSES TODAY? IT, THE ANSWER IS YES.
I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT SO WE CAN HEAR YOU SO THAT THERE'S A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS, BUT ALL RIGHT.
THEN, UH, THE I, MR. IG, I ASSUME THE RULE IS GOING TO BE INVOKED FOR THIS PROCEEDING, IS THAT CORRECT, MS? IT'S UP TO DO, DO ANY OF THE PARTIES WANT THE RULE AND VOTE FOR TODAY'S PROCEEDING? I, I WOULD NOT MAKE THAT MOTION AT THIS TIME.
SO WHAT THE RULE MEANS IS THAT, IS THAT WHEN SOMEONE ELSE IS TESTIFYING, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM THE OR YOU WILL.
NO, THE RESPONDENTS GET TO STATE ONLY IF THE OTHER, IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER WITNESSES IN THE ROOM, THEN THEY HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM THE ROOM WHILE THE MATTER IS PROCEEDING.
AND ARE THERE ANY OTHER WITNESSES IN THE ROOM? WELL, IN THE MICROPHONE, UM, CHAIR, THE CITY PLANS TO CALL THREE WITNESSES, AND WE HAVE THEM HERE IN THE ROOM TODAY.
AND, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO INVOKE THE RULE, IS THAT CORRECT? NO, THAT'S CORRECT.
YOU SWEAR YOUR ALL WITNESSES SHOULD STAND TO SWEAR.
THEN ALL WITNESSES PLEASE STAND SO THAT YOU CAN BE SWORN IN, PLEASE.
THE RESPONDENTS AND, AND BOTH THE RESPONDENTS ALSO.
UH, JUST RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
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RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND PLEASE.DO YOU SWEAR OR, OR, OR AFFIRM THAT YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? ALRIGHT.
ARE THERE ANY MOTIONS OR OBJECTIONS THAT WANT THAT, THAT ARE BEING PRESENTED BY ANY PARTY AT THIS POINT? UM, CHAIR.
THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST TO HAVE EACH RESPONDENT DECLARE WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO PLEAD TRUE OR NOT TRUE TO THE ALLEGATIONS.
THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE TIME FOR RESPONDENTS TO PLEAD TRUE TO THE ALLEGATIONS IF THEY CHOOSE SO, OR IF THEY WISH TO DO SO.
DO EITHER OF YOU WANT TO PLEAD TRUE THAT THE ALLEGATIONS OF THE COMPLAINT ARE IN FACT TRUE? YES OR NO? FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE? YES.
ALL YOU WOULD LIKE TO PLEAD TRUE TO THE ALLEGATIONS AND, AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE MR. SEHA AND MR. RODRIGUEZ, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED ON ALL THE ALLEGATIONS.
YOU'RE CONFUSED ABOUT THE ALLEGATIONS, AND AT THIS POINT, YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TO, UH, TO PLEAD TRUE TO THE ALLEGATIONS BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE ALLEGATIONS.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
HE IS GOING TO PLEAD TRUE TO THE ALLEGATIONS.
SO WHAT ELSE DO I ASK HIM TO DO IT NOW OR WHAT? JUST ARE THERE ANY OTHER MOTIONS? ALRIGHT.
ARE ARE THERE ANY OTHER MOTIONS BY ANY OF THE PARTIES BEFORE WE PROCEED TO THE MATTER? ALL RIGHT, THE SECTION.
AND MR. SEHA, THERE ARE THREE ALLEGATIONS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN TODAY'S OR ALLEGED IN TODAY'S PROCEEDING.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE PLEADING TRUE TO EACH OF THESE THREE ALLEGATIONS.
I'M GOING TO READ THEM AND YOU CAN TELL ME YES OR NO.
SECTION 12 A FOUR A ONE CITY EMPLOYEES SHALL WHEN ACTING IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES, CONDUCT THEMSELVES AND OPERATE WITH INTEGRITY IN A MANNER THAT MERIT MERITS THE TRUST AND SUPPORT OF THE PUBLIC.
UH, AND YOU ARE PLEADING TRUE THAT THIS PROVISION OF THE ETHICS CODE WAS IN FACT VIOLATED.
ALLEGATION NUMBER TWO, SECTION 12, A FOUR A FIVE.
A CITY EMPLOYEE SHALL WHEN ACTING IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES TAKE NO ACTIONS THAT COULD BENEFIT THE CITY EMPLOYEE PERSONALLY OR HIS OR HER RELATIVE TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE CITY, AVOIDING EVEN THE APPEARANCE, UH, OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND TO ALWAYS EXERCISE GOOD JUDGMENT.
UH, YOU ARE PLEADING THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF THAT ARTICLE.
THE ALLEGATION IS THAT THERE WAS AN ALLEGATION OF THAT, UH, ARTICLE, AND YOU ARE PLEADING TRUE TO THAT.
ALLEGATION THREE, SECTION 12 A 20 A, A CITY EMPLOYEE SHALL NOT USE REQUEST OR PERMIT THE USE OF CITY FACILITIES, PERSONNEL, EQUIPMENT, OR SUPPLIES FOR PRIVATE PURPOSES, INCLUDING POLITICAL PURPOSES.
AND, UH, YOU ARE PLEADING, UH, UH, YES
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TO A VIOLATION OF THAT PARTICULAR ALLEGATION IN THE COMPLAINT.ARE THERE ANY EXHIBITS THAT ARE GOING TO BE PRESENTED TODAY BY ANY PARTY? YES.
WE, THE CITY HAS SOME PAPER COPIES FOR THE PANEL.
PRESENT THOSE, PRESENT THOSE, WHAT'D YOU SAY? UH, SO WE OFFER EXHIBITS A THROUGH M CITY DOES, AND WE ARE GONNA TENDER 'EM.
YEAH, WE WANNA PUBLISH THOSE OR MAY I APPROACH MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, PLEASE.
IG CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE EXHIBITS ARE? A AND HAVE YOU PROVIDED COPIES TO THE RESPONDENT? OH, SURE, I CAN ANSWER THAT.
UM, THE, YES, WE, UH, TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE HEARING DATE, WE TENDERED COPIES OF, UH, EXHIBITS A THROUGH M, UH, TO BOTH RESPONDENTS VIA EMAIL AND, UH, INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKETS, WE HAVE, UH, COPIES OF THE COMPLAINTS, COPIES OF THE FILE, STAMPED INFORMATIONS, UM, AND THEN EXHIBITS A THROUGH M.
UM, THERE ARE SOME EXHIBITS THAT ARE ONLY DIGITAL, SO THOSE WON'T BE IN YOUR PACKETS.
EXHIBITS E, F, AND G ARE ONLY ELECTRONIC.
UM, AND SO I'VE GIVEN ELECTRONIC COPIES OF THOSE TO, UH, THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE, AND I'LL PRESENT THOSE ACCORDINGLY.
WE SHOULD WAIT FOR THEM TO BE THOSE COPIES THEN, RIGHT? SINCE REGARDING THE EXHIBITS THAT HAVE BEEN OFFERED INTO EVIDENCE, OBJECT JUDGE, WHAT THE ELECTRONIC EXHIBITS ARE.
I, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A VIDEO, IS THAT RIGHT? YES.
ONE ELECTRONIC EXHIBIT IS AN AUDIO RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
ANOTHER ELECTRONIC EXHIBIT IS AN AUDIO RECORDED INTERVIEW OF OSCAR SEHA, AND A THIRD ELECTRONIC EXHIBIT IS A VIDEO.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT ADMITTING EBONY THESE DOCUMENTS INTO EVIDENCE AT THIS POINT? ALRIGHT.
ALRIGHT, UH, HEARING NO OBJECTIONS, THEN THESE, THE DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED, UH, BY THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE WILL BE ADMITTED.
WHERE DO WE GO FROM THERE? ALL RIGHT, WE, WE ARE GOING TO PROCEED WITH THE HEARING.
UH, THERE ARE TWO PHASES OF THE HEARING.
UH, THE FIRST PHASE WILL BE TO DETER DO TWO, BE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, WHETHER OR NOT THE VI THE ALLEGED VIOLATIONS OCCURRED.
UH, THE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE FOR PHASE ONE IS PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE.
UH, IF THE PANEL FINDS THAT ONE OR MORE OF THE ETHICS ALLEGED ETHICS VIOLATIONS WERE VIOLATED, THEN THE PANEL WILL PROCEED TO
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PHASE TWO TO DETERMINE THE RECOMMENDED SANCTION.AND I'LL STATE FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS LAURA MORRISON, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
THAT PHASE ONE WILL PERTAIN TO MR. RODRIGUEZ ONLY SINCE MR. SEJA HAS PLED TRUE, UH, TO THE ALLEGATIONS.
NOBODY'S HAD ANY STIPULATIONS YET? THERE ARE NO.
ARE THERE ANY STIPULATIONS AT THIS POINT BY ANY PARTY? NO, YOUR HONOR.
ALRIGHT, THEN WE WILL PROCEED TO THE MERITS OF THIS MATTER.
WE WILL START WITH OPENING STATEMENTS.
WE WILL BEGIN BY, UH, REQUESTING AN OPENING STATEMENT FROM THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE.
THIS IS A CASE OF EMPLOYEE THEFT ON OCTOBER 25TH, 2023.
A CITY OF DALLAS RESIDENT NOTICE SOMETHING UNUSUAL AT THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR.
IT WAS A WEDNESDAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, AND SHE SAW, AND HER FRONT DOOR CAMERA RECORDED A CITY OF DALLAS TRUCK BACKING INTO THE DRIVEWAY OF THE HOME.
NEXT DOOR, A PASSENGER GOT OUT AND MADE THREE TRIPS UNLOADING LARGE METAL UNWIELDY ITEMS FROM THE BACK OF THE CITY OF DALLAS TRUCK AND INTO THE BACKYARD OF THE HOME NEXT DOOR.
AT ONE POINT, THE DRIVER GOT OUT AND WALKED TO THE BACK OF THE TRUCK WHILE THE PASSENGER WAS UNLOADING THESE LARGE METAL UNWIELDY ITEMS. THEN THE DRIVER GOT BACK IN THE TRUCK, THE PASSENGER FINISHED UNLOADING THE LARGE METAL UNWIELDY ITEMS, AND HE GOT BACK INTO THE TRUCK, AND THEN THE TRUCK DROVE AWAY.
WELL, THE TRUCK SAID CITY OF DALLAS BUILDING SERVICES ON THE SIDE.
SO THIS RESIDENT CALLED CITY OF DALLAS BUILDING SERVICES, WHERE SHE REACHED ASSISTANT DIRECTOR BRIAN THOMPSON.
SHE TOLD HIM WHAT SHE HAD SEEN AND SHE EMAILED HIM.
THE VIDEO ASSISTANT DIRECTOR BRIAN THOMPSON, REVIEWED THE VIDEO AND IMMEDIATELY IDENTIFIED THE EMPLOYEES AS OSCAR SEJA AND RENEE RODRIGUEZ, WE'RE GONNA SHOW YOU THAT VIDEO TODAY.
YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ADMISSIONS FROM OS UH, FROM RENEE RODRIGUEZ'S INTERVIEW, AND WE'RE GOING TO BRING YOU GPS DATA THAT WILL CONFIRM EVERYTHING YOU SAW ON THE VIDEO.
WE'RE GONNA EXPLAIN HOW WE GOT THE CASE, THE STEPS WE TOOK IN OUR INVESTIGATION, WHICH LED US HERE TODAY.
AT THE END OF THIS HEARING, I'LL ASK YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE, UH, THE ETHICS VIOLATIONS THAT WE FILED ON RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
AN OPENING STATEMENT BY EITHER THE RESPONDENTS? NO, MR. SEHA IS NOT PART OF PHASE ONE.
HE PLED TRUE SUCH AS MR. RODRIGUEZ.
MR. RODRIGUEZ, DO YOU HAVE AN OPENING STATEMENT IN RESPONSE TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OPENING STATEMENT? NO.
THEN MR. OR OR INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE, YOU MAY PROCEED WITH YOUR PRESENTATION OF YOUR CASE IN CHIEF, WE CALL BRIAN THOMPSON.
WOULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF? UH, GOOD MORNING.
BRIAN THOMPSON, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF BUILDING SERVICES DEPARTMENT.
AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THE CITY? EIGHT YEARS.
AND WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR ROLE HERE? UH, MY ROLE HERE, UH, OR THE CITY? YES, SIR.
UH, CURRENTLY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF BUILDING SERVICES.
UH, I OVERSEE THE DIRECT MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS OF ROUGHLY 500 BUILDINGS OF THE CITY'S 1200, UH, FACILITY PORTFOLIO THROUGH, UH, DIRECT LEADERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT OF DIVISION SUPERINTENDENTS.
I'D LIKE TO TAKE YOU BACK TO OCTOBER 25TH, 2023 AND WHAT HAPPENED? THAT WAS OUT OF THE ORDINARY.
ON THAT DAY, I, I RECEIVED A CALL, UH, FROM A CITIZEN, UH, INFORMING ME THAT SHE HAD WITNESSED, UM, A, A CITY VEHICLE
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AND WHAT SHE BELIEVED TO BE CITY EMPLOYEES UNLOADING EQUIPMENT AT THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR TO HER.AND I'M SHOWING YOU A DOCUMENT THAT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT A.
WHAT IS THIS? UH, I HAD ASKED THE CITIZEN IF SHE HAD ANY VIDEO OR ANYTHING THAT SHE COULD PROVIDE TO ME TO SUBSTANTIATE WHAT SHE WAS TELLING ME ON THE PHONE.
AND SHE SAID SHE HAD AN, UH, A VIDEO.
SO I SENT HER, UM, MY EMAIL AND SHE RESPONDED WITH A LINK TO THE VIDEO FROM HER DOORBELL CAMERA.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S REFLECTED IN EXHIBIT A HERE? YES.
AND WHAT IS THIS TOP PART OF EXHIBIT A? UH, THAT'S JUST ME.
UH, AGAIN, SENDING HER MY EMAIL, CONFIRMING OUR PHONE CONVERSATION FROM MY EMAIL TO HER.
AND WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT? UM, AFTER DISCUSSING WITH MY DIRECTOR AND THE MANAGER AT THE TIME OVER THE DIVISION TO CONFIRM, UH, WHAT I WAS SEEING, UH, I REACHED OUT TO THE PUBLIC INTEGRITY UNIT OF DPD.
AND WHY'D YOU DO THAT? UM, IN, IN MY PREVIOUS LIFE, PRIOR TO BEING ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN BUILDING SERVICES, UH, I WAS A DISTRICT MANAGER WHEN THE DEPARTMENT WAS PREVIOUSLY KNOWN AS EQUIPMENT AND BUILDING SERVICES.
AND DURING MY TENURE AT THAT TIME, WE HAD A LARGE, UH, THEFT RING OCCUR WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT.
SO, UH, JUST BASED ON MY PRIOR EXPERIENCE AND, AND THE ISSUE THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT CURRENTLY, UH, I FELT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO BRING IN, UH, PUBLIC, PUBLIC INTEGRITY TO TAKE A MORE THOROUGH LOOK AT WHAT I WAS SEEING AND, UH, WHAT HAPPENED WITH PIU AND THIS CASE.
SO AFTER ROUGHLY A MONTH, MONTH AND A HALF OF GOING, AND I COULD BE WRONG ON THE DURATION, BUT I, I BELIEVE IT WAS AROUND A MONTH, MONTH AND A HALF OF, OF SOME BACK AND FORTH WITH PIU, WE, UH, I COULD NOT PROVIDE, UH, REALLY ANY SUBSTANTIAL, UH, CONTROL MECHANISM TO SUPPORT THAT WHAT WE WERE SEEING AS EQUIPMENT WAS IN FACT, CITY OWNED EQUIPMENT.
UM, HISTORICALLY THE CITY HAS NOT, UM, REALLY MADE A, A HARD EFFORT OR HAD THE RESOURCES TO ACCURATELY, UH, DOCUMENT AND CATALOG ALL CITY ASSETS.
UM, WHAT WE HAVE SINCE MOVED INTO A DIFFERENT ARENA AND HAVE STARTED THAT, BUT I COULD NOT PROVIDE SERIALIZED INFORMATION ON THE PARTICULAR EQUIPMENT.
UH, SO PIU UH, DETERMINED THAT WITHOUT US BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY SUBSTANTIAL OWNERSHIP CREDIBILITY, UH, THAT THEY COULDN'T TAKE ON A CRIMINAL ASPECT TO WHAT THEY WERE SEEING.
WERE THERE ANY SERIAL NUMBERS? UM, NOT THAT I RECALL AND NOT THAT WE HAD DOCUMENTED.
SO AFTER PIU DECLINED THE CASE, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT? I REACHED OUT TO HUMAN RESOURCES, UH, TO REALLY GAUGE WHAT OUR NEXT STEPS SHOULD BE AS A DEPARTMENT REGARDING THIS ISSUE.
AND, UH, WHAT DID HR DO WHEN YOU SENT IT TO THEM? UM, OUTSIDE OF ASKING A COUPLE QUESTIONS, UM, IT'S MY KNOWLEDGE THAT AT THAT POINT THEY ENGAGED WITH THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE.
AND, UM, WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO IN THIS CASE? UH, ONCE IT WAS REFERRED TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, UM, I WAS REQUESTED TO PROVIDE ANY OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS OR EVIDENCE RELATED TO THE ISSUE AND DAY IN QUESTION, UH, SPECIFICALLY GPS DATA FOR THE VEHICLE THAT WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE VIDEO.
LET'S PLAY THE VIDEO AND I'LL HAVE YOU IDENTIFY THE PEOPLE OKAY.
ON THERE, I'M GOING TO BE SHOWING YOU WHAT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT G.
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WHO'S THAT? UH, THAT IS OSCAR SEJA.HOW DO YOU KNOW HE WORKS IN THE DEPARTMENT? UM, I WAS ALSO INVOLVED IN THE HIRING PROCESS, UH, THROUGH A PROGRAM WITH DISD, UH, WHEN OSCAR GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL.
I'M GOING TO RESUME, LET ME GO BACK TO 2 48.
AND HOW DO YOU KNOW? AS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, I WAS THE MAINTENANCE DISTRICT MANAGER AND RENEE WAS AN EMPLOYEE OF MINE, UH, WHILE I WAS MANAGER AT THE TIME.
AND DO YOU SEE RENEE RODRIGUEZ HERE IN THE ROOM TODAY? YES.
UH, COUNTING CHAIRS, UM, IF THAT ONE ALL THE WAY DOWN IS NUMBER ONE, AND THEN WE'RE GOING IN SUCCESSION.
WHICH, UH, CHAIR NUMBER IS RENEE SITTING IN ONE.
MR. RODRIGUEZ, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS FOR THE WITNESS? I, I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY, UH, BUT I'LL, I REFUSE TO SAY ANYTHING.
SO, SO YOU HAVE NO QUESTIONS? NO.
UH, WE'LL RELEASE THIS WITNESS AND CALL OUR NEXT WITNESS IF YOU'D LIKE.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PANEL? CAN WE ASK A QUESTION? I HAD, I HAD A QUESTION.
UH, MR. THOMPSON, WHAT ARE WERE THE DUTIES OF MR. RODRIGUEZ? DO YOU KNOW? UH, MR. RODRIGUEZ IS A SENIOR HVAC TECHNICIAN.
UH, SO HE HAS, UH, REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES ON CITYWIDE AND CITY OWNED, UH, HEATING AND COOLING EQUIPMENT.
I, I, I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. THOMPSON, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT, I KNOW THAT'S A CITY TRUCK.
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE CONTENTS OF THAT TRUCK WERE CITY OWNED MATERIALS THAT WERE BEING UNLOADED? AS I STATED PREVIOUSLY, UM, IT'S AN ASSUMPTION
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BECAUSE WE HAVE NO SERIALIZED DATA.UM, BUT, UH, THE, THE ASSUMPTION, UH, AND, AND FROM LOOKING AT THE VIDEO, UH, EQUIPMENT BEING REMOVED FROM A CITY VEHICLE BY CITY EMPLOYEES, UM, AND, AND THE TYPE OF EQUIPMENT INVOLVED, UH, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD SEE AT SOMEONE'S HOUSE.
AND YOU COULD TELL FROM THE VIDEO THAT WHAT TYPE OF EQUIPMENT THAT WAS.
UH, ORIGINALLY WHEN I SAW THE VIDEO, I'M, I'M NOT AN HVAC TECHNICIAN, SO, UH, THAT'S WHY I INITIALLY CONSULTED WITH MY HVAC MANAGER, KNOWING THESE TWO EMPLOYEES WERE HVAC TECHNICIANS.
UH, I RECEIVED HIS COUNSEL ON, UH, REALLY WHAT TYPE OF EQUIPMENT I WAS LOOKING AT.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS? AND NONE FROM THE RESPONDENTS? NO QUESTIONS.
YOU CAN BE EXCUSED, UH, THEN THANK YOU, SIR.
MR. IG, UH, OR MS. IG, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS.
UH, PLEASE, UH, INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
I'M THE SUPERINTENDENT FOR THE HVAC DISTRICT WITHIN THE BUILDING SERVICE DEPARTMENT.
UH, PREVIOUSLY PROMOTED OR PREVIOUSLY WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS, I WAS PROMOTED TO SUPERINTENDENT FROM THE MANAGER POSITION.
AND, UH, PLEASE GIVE A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF YOUR JOB DUTIES AS SUPERINTENDENT OF THE HVAC DEPARTMENT, I OVERSEE ALL OPERATIONS AS FAR AS THE HVAC DEPARTMENT WHEN IT COMES TO HEATING, AIR CONDITIONING, AND VENTILATION, UH, THROUGHOUT THE 504 ROUGHLY BUILDINGS AT THE, UH, BUILDING SERVICES DEPARTMENT, UH, OVERSEAS.
I'D LIKE TO TAKE YOU BACK TO OCTOBER 25TH, 2023.
DID SOMETHING UNUSUAL HAPPEN ON THAT DAY? UH, BRIAN BRIAN THOMPSON CONTACTED ME AND ASKED ME TO COME TO HIS OFFICE TO VIEW, UH, THE VIDEO THAT'S BEING PRESENTED TODAY.
UM, I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT G AND JUST HAVE YOU IDENTIFY THE PEOPLE ON THERE.
WHO'S THAT? THAT IS OSCAR SEHA.
HOW DO YOU KNOW? UH, FOR ONE, I WAS ALSO A PART OF HIS INTERVIEW PROCESS IN THE HIRING PROCESS OF OSCAR SEHA, AND HE WORKS WITHIN MY DEPARTMENT, AND WE HAVE INTERACTIONS WITH EACH OTHER ANYWHERE FROM ONCE A DAY, I MEAN ONCE A WEEK TO MULTIPLE TIMES A WEEK.
I'M GOING TO FAST FORWARD A LITTLE BIT.
WHO'S THAT? THAT IS RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
HOW DO YOU KNOW? UH, WOULD BE THE SAME.
HE WORKS WITHIN MY DEPARTMENT, UH, AND I HAVE PERSONAL, UH, REACT RELATIONS WITH HIM AS FAR AS INTERACTIONS, UH, ANYWHERE FROM ONCE TO MULTIPLE TIMES A WEEK.
WHAT IS THE EQUIPMENT? CAN YOU IDENTIFY WHAT THIS IS WITH THE SIZE AND SHAPE OF THAT? THE EQUIPMENT? IT APPEARS TO BE AN EXHAUST FAN, UH, WHICH WOULD NORMALLY BE MOUNTED ON THE TOP OF A, A BUILDING.
HOW MUCH DOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT WEIGH? I'M GOING TO ESTIMATE SOMEWHERE AROUND SEVEN.
A COMPLETED PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, UH, WOULD BE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 75 AND 150 POUNDS.
DO YOU SEE RENEE RODRIGUEZ, UH, SITTING IN THE ROOM TODAY? YES, MA'AM.
WHAT SEAT NUMBER IF THAT'S ONE, AND THEN YOU GO 2, 3, 4, ALL THE WAY DOWN.
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UH, WERE THE TWO EMPLOYEES ON DUTY AT THE TIME THIS VIDEO WAS TAKEN? YES, MA'AM.WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE IN THIS CASE? MY ROLE WAS TO WORK WITH THE, UH, INVESTIGATIVE DEPARTMENT TO BE ABLE TO, UH, REVIEW TIME SHEETS AND INFORMATION OF THAT MATTER.
UH, WHAT ARE CITY OF DALLAS EMPLOYEES HVAC EMPLOYEES WHEN THEY'RE REMOVING METAL EQUIPMENT ON A JOB SITE? WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THAT METAL EQUIPMENT THAT'S BEEN REMOVED FROM A JOB SITE? THAT EQUIPMENT SHOULD NORMALLY BE RETURNED BACK TO THE PEARLSTONE LOCATION WHERE THE STAFF NORMALLY OFFICES EACH DAY.
AND WE HAVE AN AREA THERE WHERE WE WILL, UH, HOLD THAT EQUIPMENT TILL WE GET ENOUGH EQUIPMENT TO TAKE TO OCON, WHICH IS OUR, UH, CITY APPROVED RECYCLING CENTER.
OR THE EMPLOYEE HAS THE OPTION TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT DIRECTLY TO THE OCON AND TURN THAT EQUIPMENT IN AND GET A RECEIPT FOR THAT EQUIPMENT AND BRING IT BACK TO THE OFFICE.
AND LET ME SHARE MY NEXT EXHIBIT.
I AM SHOWING YOU WHAT'S PREVIOUS SLIP AND MARKED AS EXHIBIT J, AND I'M GOING TO TRY TO ZOOM IN.
UH, WHAT IS THIS DOCUMENT? THIS IS A PRINTOUT FROM THE, UH, WORK ORDER, I MEAN, FROM THE TIME SHEET SYSTEM, UH, THAT SHOWS THAT, SORRY, I DIDN'T SEE THE EMPLOYEE NAME WRONG.
OH, LET ME GET, LET ME GET IT.
LET ME ACTUALLY GO TO K RATHER.
UM, SO LET ME ENLARGE THIS JUST A BIT.
WHAT IS THIS? THIS IS A PRINTOUT OF THE DAILY TIME CLOCK, UH, THAT SHOWS THAT RENEE CLOCKED IN FOR THE DAY AT 7:35 AM AND HE CLOCKED OUT FOR THE DAY AT 4:03 PM OKAY.
I, I DO ACTUALLY WANNA SHOW EXHIBIT J NOW.
WHAT, WHAT IS THIS? THAT IS ALSO A PRINTOUT OF THE, UH, TIMESTAMP, UH, FROM THE TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM FOR OSCAR SEHA.
AND, UH, WAS HE WORKING ON 10 25 OF 2023? YES, MA'AM.
HE CLOCKED IN AT 7:33 AM AND CLOCKED OUT AT 4:03 PM OKAY.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GPS DATA.
THIS IS, I AM SHOWING YOU WHAT'S PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT H, AND I'M GOING TO GO TO LINE 61 AND 62.
CAN THIS BE BLOWN UP AT ALL SO THAT IT CAN BE SEEN BETTER, BETTER SEEN? UH, WE DO HAVE PAPER COPIES AS WELL.
AND THAT IS THE PAPER COPIES ARE EXHIBIT WHAT? H OKAY.
I WAS JUST HAVING A HARD TIME SEEING JAY.
THAT ANSWERS THAT QUESTION, I THINK.
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TELL ME, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? WHAT IS 1 1 0 2 2? THAT WOULD BE THE VEHICLE NUMBER.AND WHAT'S THE NEXT, WHAT'S THE NEXT COLUMN REVEALING? THAT IS THE DATE AND THE, AND THEN COLUMN B WOULD BE THE TIME.
AND, UH, WHAT DOES COLUMN F SHOW US? COLUMN F SHOWS A PRINT OF THE LOCATION OF THE VEHICLE AT THAT TIME.
SO THEY WERE AT WHAT ADDRESS? AT 12 43 43.
1 1 7 2 1 LIPID AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
AND AT 1246, WHERE ARE THEY STILL STILL AT? 1 1 7 2 1 LIPID AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
AT 1249 THEY WERE, UH, IN MOTION, UH, AT, UH, 1 1 9 1 1 CASTING AVENUE.
I'M SORRY? IS THIS EXHIBIT H? YES.
UH, WE WERE LOOKING AT LINE 60 AND 61.
THE, THE, THE PAPER COPIES DON'T HAVE LINES.
I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU NOW WHAT HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT I.
AND WHAT IS THIS? THIS IS THE CODE OF ETHICS ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FORM.
WHEN DID HE SIGN IT? 7 28 OF TWO OF 2023.
YEAH, I JUST, I PASS THE WITNESS.
MR. RODRIGUEZ, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE? JUST, UH, OR, OR IF YOU GUYS SEE ME, UH, ANSWERING MY PHONE OR LOOKING AT IT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, UH, I HAVE A SON THAT'S IN SAN DIEGO, AND, UH, HIS WIFE IS ABOUT TO HAVE A BABY, SO DISREGARD THAT, PLEASE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF MR. UH, BUTLER? UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF MR. BUTLER? MR. YES.
NO PANEL MEMBERS? ANY QUESTIONS OF MR. BUTLER? GO AHEAD.
UH, MR. BUTLER, HOW WOULD THE RESPONDENTS COME INTO POSSESSION OF THIS EQUIPMENT? THAT WOULD BE DURING THE REPLACEMENT.
IF, IF THE, WHAT I PRESUME TO BE AN EXHAUST FAN IN THIS CASE, UH, AS THAT EXHAUST FAN MAY HAVE FAILED AND WAS NO LONGER WORKING, THEN THE CITY WOULD'VE PURCHASED A NEW ONE, AND THEN THAT WOULD'VE BEEN INSTALLED.
AND THE OLD PIECE OF EQUIPMENT REMOVED, UH, I, I THINK I HEARD SOMEWHERE EARLIER THAT THEY MADE THREE TRIPS.
WAS THAT, WAS I DREAMING ABOUT THAT? THREE? WELL, THERE WAS THREE, THREE TRIPS OUTTA THE BACK OF THE TRUCK? YES, SIR.
AND WOULD'VE TAKEN THREE TRIPS TO BRING THE EXHAUST FAN? UH, SINCE THE EXHAUST FAN, IT APPEARED TO BE, UH, DISASSEMBLED, I BELIEVE, FROM WHAT I CAN TELL FROM THE VIDEO, UH, BASICALLY THE BASE OF THE UNIT WAS REMOVED, UH, AND THEN THE TOP PORTION OF THE EXHAUST FAN WOULD'VE
[00:45:01]
BEEN REMOVED, AND THEN THE MOTORS WOULD'VE BEEN REMOVED.AND, UH, I, I ASSUME THIS WAS USED EQUIPMENT? YES, SIR.
I, I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
AND I'M SORRY IF I, IF I MISSED THIS, HOW, HOW DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH THE ESTIMATED VALUE OF THAT EQUIPMENT, UH, AS BEING AN OLD PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, WHAT THE NEW ONE WAS? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT COST WAS, UH, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF IT CAME OUT OF EXISTING INVENTORY, UH, THAT WE MAY HAVE HAD IN STOCK.
UH, AND AS FAR AS THE USED VALUE OR SCRAP VALUE, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THAT VALUE WOULD BE.
WHAT WOULD IT BE IF IT WAS JUST, JUST SO I HAVE A BALLPARK? I MEAN, IF IT'S BRAND NEW, WHAT, WHAT'S THE CEILING OF ITS VALUE? I AM ONLY ESTIMATING OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I WOULD SAY ANYWHERE FROM A THOUSAND TO 2,500.
AND WHAT, DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA IF IT WAS USED WHERE YOU WOULD PUT THAT ESTIMATE? HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW.
UM, DID YOU EVER SEE THIS EQUIPMENT AFTER THIS INCIDENT? NO, SIR.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IT? NO, SIR.
I, I, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION.
COULD YOU IDENTIFY FROM THE VIDEO THAT THIS IS IN FACT CITY OWNED EQUIPMENT? I ONLY ASSUME THAT IT IS AS THEY WERE IN A CITY VEHICLE AND PREVIOUSLY DOING, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE DAY DOING CITY WORK.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? HEARING NONE, UH, UH, RESPONDENTS ANY QUESTIONS? LEMME ASK THEM THAT WE MOVED ON.
SO YOU MAY BE EXCUSED THEN, SIR.
WE CALL ELENA WOLF E ELENA WOLF.
HAVE BEEN ADVISED TO ASK EVERYONE TO SPEAK CLEARLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
PLEASE, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, WOLF.
SO CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF AGAIN, ELENA WOLF, AND PLEASE DESCRIBE YOUR TRAINING AND BACKGROUND.
I'M AN INVESTIGATOR WITH THE INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION, AND I'VE WORKED FOR THE LAST 12 YEARS FOR VARIOUS, UH, AGENCIES AS AN INVESTIGATOR.
AND WHAT IS YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE? I WAS THE ASSIGNED INVESTIGATOR.
HOW DID THIS CASE COME TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION? ON JANUARY 9TH, UH, WE RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM HR AND THEY EXPLAINED THE HISTORY OF THE COMPLAINT THAT ORIGINATED WITH A CITIZEN CONTACTING BUILDING SERVICES BUILDINGS ABOUT OBSERVING CITY EMPLOYEES UNLOADING EQUIPMENT FROM A CITY OF DALLAS TRUCK AT A RESIDENCE.
I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT B, AND LET ME GO TO THE END.
WHAT IS THIS? THAT'S THE EMAIL THREAD THAT BRIAN THOMPSON FORWARDED TO ME OF HIS EXCHANGE WITH THE RESIDENT WHO REPORTED THE ISSUE.
AND THEN WHERE DID HE SEND IT NEXT? AFTER HE SENT IT TO THE RESIDENT, HE CONTACTED PIU, AND THEN AFTER PIU WAS UNABLE TO PURSUE A CRIMINAL CHARGE, HE CONTACTED HR AND HR CONTACTED OUR DIVISION.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT EXHIBIT B IS? JUST REFLECTING, UH, HOW IT GOT FROM BSD TO HR TO IGD? CORRECT.
UH, WHAT STEPS DID YOU TAKE TO INVESTIGATE THIS CASE? I GOT THE, THE EMAIL THREAD, THE VIDEO.
I REQUESTED ADDITIONAL, UH, RECORDS FROM THE SUPERVISORS.
I SPOKE TO THE SUPERVISORS, AND I INTERVIEWED THE RESPONDENTS AND ALSO OBTAINED SOME INFORMATION ABOUT RECYCLING.
UM, WHAT WERE THE RESULTS OF YOUR INVESTIGATION? UH, I BELIEVE WE HAD FOUND EVIDENCE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT OSCAR SEHA AND RENE RODRIGUEZ HAD VIOLATED
[00:50:01]
THE CODE OF ETHICS.AND, UH, WHAT VIOLATIONS, UH, WHAT VIOLATIONS WAS RENEE RODRIGUEZ CHARGED WITH? HE WAS CHARGED WITH 12 A FOUR A ONE, WHICH IS, UH, CITY OFFICIALS EMPLOYEES WHEN ACTING IN THEIR PERFORMANCE OF THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES, UH, SHOULD CONDUCT THEMSELVES AND OPERATE WITH INTEGRITY THAT MERITS THE TRUST IN SUPPORT OF THE PUBLIC.
AND WHY WAS HE CHARGED WITH THIS ONE? THAT WAS BECAUSE THE RESIDENT HAD OBSERVED THE EMPLOYEES UNLOADING ITEMS FROM THE TRUCK AT THEIR, AT A RESIDENCE.
AND WHAT ELSE WAS RENEE RODRIGUEZ CHARGED WITH? THE SECOND THING WAS 12 A SEVEN A, WHICH IS A CITY OFFICIAL OR EMPLOYEE SHALL NOT KNOWINGLY ASSIST OR INDUCE OR ATTEMPT TO INDUCE ANOTHER PERSON TO VIOLATE ANY PROVISION OF THE CHAPTER.
AND WHY THIS CHARGE? THAT WAS BECAUSE RENEE HAD ASSISTED OSCAR IN COMMITTING THE VIOLATION.
AND THE THIRD CHARGE? THE THIRD ONE, UH, PROHIBITS CITY OFFICIALS OR EMPLOYEES FROM USING CITY FACILITIES, EQUIPMENT, OR SUPPLIES FOR PRIVATE PURPOSES.
AND WHY THIS CHARGE? THAT WAS BECAUSE OSCAR AND RENEE HAD USED THE CITY TRUCK FOR PERSONAL PURPOSES.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE INTERVIEW.
UM, WHO DID YOU INTERVIEW IN THIS CASE? I SPOKE WITH, UH, BRIAN THOMPSON AND NORMAN BUTLER, BUT I DID INTERVIEWS WITH OSCAR SEHA AND RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
UM, I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT'S PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT C.
WHERE IS IT? UM, IF I DO THAT, DOES THAT MAKE IT BIGGER? NO, IT REALLY DOESN'T.
UM, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ADMISSIONS THAT RENEE RODRIGUEZ MADE WHEN YOU SPOKE TO HIM ABOUT THIS INCIDENT? HE SAID HE WAS PRETTY SURE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE SCRAP METAL FOR THEMSELVES, THAT IT WAS COMMON SENSE AND THAT THAT HAD BEEN THE POLICY EVERYWHERE HE WORKED.
HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE HAD BEEN TO OSCAR'S HOUSE A FEW TIMES.
UH, HE SAID TO, TO HELP HIM PICK UP LUNCH OR WHATEVER DURING THE WORKDAY.
UM, AND HE, UM, HE KNEW THAT THE SCRAP METAL WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DISPOSED OF EITHER AT THE MAIN BSD LOCATION OR IN THE CITY OF DALLAS BINS, OR ELSE AT OCON RECYCLING.
AND WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU TOLD RENE RODRIGUEZ THAT HE WAS SEEN ON VIDEO DRIVING THE TRUCK TO ASSIST AN EMPLOYEE TO UNLOAD THESE ITEMS THAT BELONG TO THE CITY OF DALLAS? HE SAID HE MUST BEEN WORKING WITH OSCAR, BUT HE DENIED ANY RECOLLECTION OF THE INCIDENT.
UH, WHAT STEPS DID YOU TAKE AFTER THE INTERVIEWS? AFTER THE INTERVIEWS, I ATTEMPTED TO LOCATE WHERE THE SCRAP METAL MIGHT HAVE BEEN TAKEN.
OSCAR HAD PROVIDED AN APPROXIMATE LOCATION, UM, OFF OF SHILOH AND KINGSLEY IN GARLAND.
AND SO I LOOKED UP METAL RECYCLING LOCATIONS IN THAT AREA WITHIN A FEW MILES.
AND I WENT TO, UH, ONE OF 'EM, WHICH HAD A RECORD OF OSCAR HAVING BROUGHT MATERIALS THERE BEFORE.
SHOW US, WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS BUSINESS? ENCORE RECYCLERS.
AND WHERE IS IT LOCATED? IT IS ON SHILOH ROAD IN GARLAND.
AND WHAT IS DEPICTED HERE ON THIS, ON THIS RECEIPT? THIS WAS A PRINTOUT THEY GAVE US THAT SHOWED THE CUSTOMER TRANSACTION HISTORY FOR OSCAR.
AND SO IT SHOWED, UH, TWO DATES IN THEIR SEARCH PERIOD OF WHEN HE HAD BROUGHT MATERIALS IN FOR SCRAPPING.
UH, WHAT WAS NOTABLE ABOUT THE SECOND DATE ON THERE? I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 45 DAYS AFTER THE DATE OF THE INCIDENT.
LET'S, UH, LET GO TO THE SECOND PAGE THAT YOU GOT FROM ENCORE.
[00:55:01]
A COPY OF OSCAR'S DRIVER'S LICENSE, WHICH SHOWS HIS DATE OF BIRTH, BUT ALSO THE ADDRESS OF THE RESIDENCE WHERE THE CITIZEN OBSERVED THE VIOLATION.WHAT'S OSCAR'S ADDRESS? 1 1 7 2 5 LIPID AVENUE IN DALLAS.
I'M SHOWING YOU WHAT'S PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT L.
WHAT HAPPENED TO MY WEBEX? HOLD ON, LET ME STOP SHARING.
THIS HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT L.
WHAT IS IT? IT'S A MAP SHOWING THE LOCATION OF ENCORE RECYCLERS OSCARS RESIDENCE, AND THE CITY OF DALLAS, UH, BSD HEADQUARTERS.
SO ON THE BOTTOM LEFT, WHAT'S THAT ONE? THAT'S BSD.
THAT'S, UH, WHERE, WHAT, THAT'S WHERE THE BSDS CENTRAL OFFICE IS AND WHERE THE EMPLOYEES REPORT FOR THEIR ASSIGNMENTS.
SO THAT'S WHERE THEY WOULD'VE STARTED THEIR DAY? CORRECT.
WHAT IS THIS MIDDLE ONE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE? THAT IS OSCAR SOHO'S RESIDENCE.
AND THE TOP LOCATION ON THE PAGE.
WHAT IS THAT? THAT'S WHERE ENCORE RECYCLERS IS LOCATED.
MR. RODRIGUEZ, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE WITNESS? I JUST NEED TO APOLOGIZE IF I GET EMOTIONAL 'CAUSE I HAVE KIDS ARE HIS AGE AND THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
UH, DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR, OKAY.
UH, ELENA, WHEN YOU ASKED HIM, ARE EMPLOYEES ALLOWED TO TAKE RECYCLED METAL FOR PERSONAL USE, HE SAID, I'M PRETTY SURE YOU CAN'T.
AND THAT IT WAS COMMON SENSE AND THAT IT HAD BEEN THE POLICY OF EVERY PLACE HE WORKED.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE PANEL MEMBERS? I HAVE A QUESTION.
IS THERE ANY, ANY MORE TESTIMONY OR QUESTIONS? WOULD THE PANEL LIKE TO, WOULD THE PANEL LIKE FOR ME TO PLAY THE AUDIO RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RENEE RODRIGUEZ? UM, IT'S HERE.
YES, IT IS SUMMARIZED IN THE MEMORANDUM OF INTERVIEW.
THERE'S A RECORD OF THE RECORDED INTERVIEW.
WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO ACTUALLY HEAR THE RECORDING ITSELF? HOW LONG IS IT? 16 MINUTES.
YEAH, I, I DON'T NEED TO HEAR IT, BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
I HAVE, I HAVE 1 1, 1 LAST QUESTION.
YOU, YOU MENTIONED THE USE OF THE TRUCK FOR PRIVATE PURPOSES.
WAS HE, IS THAT ONE OF THE ALLEGATIONS OF THE COMPLAINT? YES.
THE ALLEGATION IS THAT RENEE ASSISTED OSCAR IN COMMITTING THE VIOLATION BY USING THE CITY TRUCK FOR PRIVATE PURPOSES.
[01:00:02]
UM, EXCUSE ME.I KNOW YOU EXPLAINED THE FIRST PAGE OF EXHIBIT L.
UH, MAYBE I DIDN'T HEAR IT, BUT THERE'S A SECOND PAGE.
WHAT DOES THAT, IN ACTUALLY A THIRD PAGE AND THE FOURTH PAGE,
WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT DEPICT? MAY I ANSWER? SURE.
UH, THAT WAS JUST IN AN EFFORT TO SAVE TIME.
UM, I HAVE, UH, SOME MORE DETAILED, UH, BREAKDOWN OF WHAT THE GPS REFLECTS FROM EARLIER IN THE DAY.
UM, HOWEVER, IN, IN INTEREST TO SAVE TIME, I ONLY SHOWED PAGE ONE OF EXHIBIT L JUST AS A DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT TO SORT OF GIVE AN IDEA OF WHERE THESE PLACES WERE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, AT WHAT POINT DOES THE OFFICE CONSIDER THE EQUIPMENT JUNK? I, I CAN'T SAY FOR CERTAIN, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS, AS SOON AS THEY ARE REMOVING SOMETHING FROM A REPAIR, IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO STRAIGHT INTO ONE OF THE SCRAP BINS.
SO IT'S, IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO SIT AROUND THE SHOP OR IN THE VEHICLE.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DISPOSED OF AS SOON AS THEY GET BACK TO THEIR STATION OR ONE OF THOSE BINS.
THAT'S WHAT THE WITNESSES TOLD YOU? YEAH.
AND I, I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING FURTHER FROM ANY OF THE WITNESSES OR THE SUPERVISORS.
SO, UH, SHE SOLD, UM, A DEAL FOR 130 SOME DOLLARS, RIGHT? WHERE HE RECYCLES SOMETHING FOR 130 SOMETHING DOLLARS.
YOU GUYS ARE ASSUMING THAT I'M GONNA DO AWAY WITH MY CAREER FOR HALF OF THAT, OR HOW DOES THIS WORK? I YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE YOUR CASE DO, WE'RE GONNA COMPLETE THIS PART OF THE HEARING.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE HEARING? I MEAN FOR THE WITNESS.
AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO YOU SO YOU CAN, UH, PRESENT YOUR SIDE OF THE CASE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS? HEARING NONE, THEN YOU ARE RELEASED EXCUSED.
MR. UH, CHAIR, WOULD YOU CARE TO HAVE THE INSPECTOR GENERAL RECALL EITHER OF THE BUILDING'S SERVICES EMPLOYEES? TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? OH, NN NO.
I, I DON'T, I I DON'T, NO N NONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT? UH, WE REST.
RIGHT? SO, MR. RODRIGUEZ, MR. RODRIGUEZ, IT IS YOUR TURN TO MAKE YOUR CASE IN RESPONSE TO THESE ALLEGATIONS.
ALRIGHT THEN AT THIS POINT, YOU REST AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE COMPLETE WITH YOUR PART OF THE CASE.
WE ARE NOW PREPARED FOR CLOSING STATEMENTS, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE IS FIRST IN PRESENTING ITS CLOSING STATEMENT.
WELL, I'D LIKE TO REVIEW BRIEFLY WHAT WE PRESENTED HERE TODAY, WHICH WAS OSCAR SEJA TAKING ITEMS FROM THAT DID NOT BELONG TO HIM, THAT BELONGED TO THE CITY OF DALLAS AND DEPOSITING THEM AT HIS RESIDENCE.
WE BROUGHT YOU THE GPS DATA FROM THE TRUCK ON THE DAY IN QUESTION, CONFIRMING WHAT YOU SAW ON THE VIDEO, BECAUSE THIS PRESENTATION DOESN'T INVOLVE OSCAR.
UM, THESE ARE SOME OF RENEE'S ADMISSIONS TO, UH, MS. WOLF, THE I INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION
[01:05:01]
INVESTIGATOR.I'M PRETTY SURE YOU CAN'T TAKE RECYCLED MATERIALS FOR YOURSELF EVERYWHERE I'VE EVER WORKED.
I WOULD NEVER JEOPARDIZE THAT YOUNG MAN'S CAREER WHEN HE'S TOLD THAT HE'S CAUGHT ON VIDEO ASSISTING THIS YOUNG MAN TO STEAL ITEMS THAT BELONG TO THE CITY OF DALLAS.
RENEE RODRIGUEZ SAID, I WOULD NEVER JEOPARDIZE THAT YOUNG MAN'S CAREER, AND I HAVE NO IDEA.
AND SO, AGAIN, WE'VE GOT, UH, EXHIBIT G OUR VIDEO CAMERA.
THESE GUYS ARE ON VIDEO TAKING MATERIALS THAT DON'T BELONG TO THEM.
WE'VE GOT THE GPS DATA CONFIRMING THAT, AND WE'VE GOT THE ADMISSIONS THAT, THAT THEY BOTH MADE IN THEIR INTERVIEWS.
WE, UM, AGAIN, WE JUST BROUGHT YOU THIS GPS DATA SHOWING AT 1240.
THEY'RE ON BARNES BRIDGE ROAD BY 1243, THEY'RE AT THE HOME ON LIPPIT AVENUE, AND BY 1249, THEY'RE OFF TO THEIR NEXT STOP.
I'M GOING TO MOVE OVER THIS BECAUSE THIS IS OSCAR.
UM, I WANNA JUST DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO SECTION 12 A NINE OF OUR CODE OF ETHICS.
ALL CURRENT CITY OFFICIALS AND CURRENT EMPLOYEES SHALL RECEIVE ETHICS TRAINING ON AN ONGOING BASIS AT LEAST TWO YEARS.
AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T, SECTION F UH, STATES THAT FAILURE TO RECEIVE THIS ETHICS TRAINING DOES NOT WAIVE ANYONE'S DUTY TO COMPLY WITH THE, THE ETHICS STANDARDS THAT WE HAVE IN THE CITY.
FOR ALL OF THOSE REASONS, WE'RE GONNA ASK YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THESE THREE VIOLATIONS AGAINST EMPLOYEE RENEE RODRIGUEZ.
IT IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT A CLOSING STATEMENT TO THE COMMISSION.
JUST, UH, LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH.
AND CAN YOU SPEAK IN TO THE, WE COULDN'T HEAR YOU IF WE COULD JUST GET THIS OVER WITH AND I, UH, Y'ALL CAN DO WHATEVER.
THAT'S THE EXTENT OF YOUR CLOSING STATEMENT.
WE WILL NOW PROCEED TO DELIBERATIONS.
SO THE COMMISSION NOW HAS WHERE, ALL RIGHT.
SO WE ARE GOING TO NOW PROCEED TO PHASE TWO.
THEN WE VOTE ON PHASE ONE BEFORE WE, WELL, WE'RE GONNA DETERMINE WHETHER ANY VIOLATIONS HAVE BEEN PROVEN OH, OKAY.
IN PHASE ONE, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA PROCEED TO THE SANCTIONS PART IN PHASE TWO.
SO WE WILL NOW COMMENCE DELIBERATIONS WHETHER ANY OF THE ALLEGED VIOLATIONS, UH, HAVE OCCURRED.
UH, AND IS THERE, WE HAVE TO DETERMINE WHETHER MR. RODRIGUEZ VIOLATED SECTIONS 12 A FOUR, A ONE, 12, A SEVEN A, AND OR 12 A 20 A, UH, OF, OF THE, UH, ETHIC ETHICS CODE.
THE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE IS PREPONDERANT PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE.
AND IS THERE A MOTION WITH RESPECT TO THAT ALLEGATION OF THE COMPLAINT? WHAT WOULD THE MOTION BE TO FIND THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION OF I ANY OF THOSE ONE OR ANY OF THOSE PROVISIONS? I MOVE, I'M SORRY.
[01:10:03]
UH, ISO MOVE, UM, TO FIND A VIOLATION OF, OF THE, UH, UH, PROVISIONS ON THE ETHICS CODE.ALL THREE, ALL THREE PROVISIONS? YES.
WITH RESPECT TO MR. RODRIGUEZ? YES.
IS THERE SECOND? IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT MOTION? SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION WITH RESPECT TO THE, THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE TABLE? I'LL SAY SOMETHING.
UM, WELL, WELL, I CERTAINLY AGREE THAT THIS DOES NOT, UM, AMOUNT TO SOME TYPE, UH, THAT, THAT THE EVIDENCE DOESN'T AMOUNT TO, UH, UH, GUILT, UH, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, WHICH WOULD BE WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE IN A CRIMINAL CASE.
UH, IT APPEARS FROM THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, UH, THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION.
UH, I GUESS I JUST KEPT THINKING, WHAT WERE THESE TWO GUYS THINKING? UH, UM, ESPECIALLY MR. RODRIGUEZ WHO ASSISTED AND, UM, AND PROBABLY WITH HIS EXPERIENCE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER AND DIDN'T PUT A STOP TO IT, OBVIOUSLY, UM, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT, UH, MR. SEJA DID, AND MR. SEJA HAS PLED TRUE TO THE ALLEGATIONS.
UH, BASED UPON THAT AND THE OTHER CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT I SAW IN THIS HEARING, UH, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD MAKE A FINDING OF, UH, VIOLATIONS.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OF THE, OR THE LIBERATIONS REGARDING THE RECOMMENDATION TO FIND A VIOLATION UNDER PHASE ONE HERE? HEARING NONE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF FINDING A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS FOR MR. RODRIGUEZ SECTIONS 12 A FOUR A ONE 12, A SEVEN 12 A SEVEN A AND 12 A 20 A.
BUT SHOULD I DO THEM INDIVIDUALLY? NO, THERE'S NO MOTION.
SO ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR OF FINDING A VIOLATION, PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
WE WILL NOW PROCEED TO PHASE TWO TO DETERMINE A RECOMMENDED SANCTION.
BOTH PARTIES ARE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO MAKE OPENING STATEMENTS, PRESENT EVIDENCE, AND PRESENT CLOSING STATEMENTS.
THE PANEL SHOULD CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING FACTORS WHEN DELIBERATING OR DISCUSSING A DECISION REGARDING PHASE TWO, UH, THE CULPABILITY OF THE PERSON CHARGED THE HARM TO PUBLIC OR PRIVATE INTERESTS RESULTING FROM THE VIOLATION, THE NECESSITY OF PRESERVING PUBLIC TRUST IN THE CITY, WHETHER THERE IS EVIDENCE OF A PATTERN OF DISREGARD FOR ETHICAL STANDARDS AND WHETHER REMEDIAL ACTION HAS BEEN TAKEN THAT WILL MITIGATE THE ADVERSE EFFECTS OF THE EVIDENCE.
I WOULD, I WOULD SHOULD NOTE THAT BECAUSE EACH RESPONDENT IS A CURRENT, UH, EACH RESPONDENT IS A CURRENT EMPLOYEE, THE PANEL MAY RECOMMEND THAT THE SANCTIONING PERSON, UH, SHALL TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PERSONNEL RULES, UH, AS WELL AS ANY OF THE THREE ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS LISTED BELOW.
THE COMMISSION'S LEGAL COUNSEL HAS PROVIDED A HANDOUT PROVIDING THOSE POSSIBLE SANCTIONS.
THOSE ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS, UH, YEAH, YOU WANT TO SUMMARIZE THOSE ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS, THE ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS THAT THE PANEL, UH, MAY FIND IN ADDITION TO THE SANCTIONING PERSON TAKING APPROPRIATE ACTION IN ACCORDANCE
[01:15:01]
WITH THE PERSONNEL RULES AS FOUND IN SECTION 12 A DASH 59 B OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.AND THOSE THREE ARE, NUMBER ONE, REFERRAL TO ETHICS TRAINING.
NUMBER TWO, REFERRAL FOR DAMAGES OR INJUNCTION.
AND NUMBER THREE, REFERRAL FOR CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
SO THE SANCTIONING PERSON IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE, BECAUSE THESE GENTLEMEN ARE CURRENT EMPLOYEES, THEY WILL, THEY WILL BE REFERRED FOR, FOR A SANCTION BY THEIR SUPERVISOR.
AND IF THE COMMISSION CHOOSES TO ADD ANY ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS, THEN THAT IS OUR OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.
IF THERE, IF THAT IS THE CHOICE.
DO YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE, UM, DO YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE? CAN YOU DO A COMBINATION OF THE SANCTIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE TRAINING AND THE DAMAGES? IT CAN BE ONE OR TWO OF THE THREE, OR ALL THREE OR NONE OF THEM.
DO WE KNOW WHAT SANCTIONS THE SUPERVISOR OR WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE FOR THE SUPERVISOR? THAT WOULD BE IN, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PERSONNEL RULES AND THAT FALLS OUTSIDE OF THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF THIS BODY.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE, WE WERE GOING TO HAVE A BRIEFING ON, UH, AT OUR LAST MEETING, AND THE GENTLEMAN WHO WAS GOING TO DO THE BRIEFING WAS SICK AND WE DIDN'T DO IT.
BUT HOPEFULLY THE NEXT MEETING WE WILL BE ABLE TO DISCUSS IN DETAIL SANCTIONING CURRENT EMPLOYEES AND HOW THAT WORKS.
IT ONLY MAKES MORE DIFFICULT FOR US, HOWEVER, BECAUSE THAT, I DON'T WANNA SEE A REDUNDANCY OF PRO OF, OF ISSUES IF THEY, IF THE HR, IF THEIR SUPERVISOR IS GONNA DO THE SAME THING OR RECOMMEND THE SAME THING THAT WE WOULD.
THE, WHAT THIS PANEL DECIDES IS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPERVISOR.
SO ULTIMATELY IT IS UP TO THE SUPERVISOR.
HE, THE SUPERVISOR WOULD JUST TAKE, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION OF THIS PANEL INTO ACCOUNT, UM, WHEN DISCIPLINING THE EMPLOYEE.
OPENING STATE, ARE WE READY FOR, UM, UM, WE ARE OPENING RECOMMENDATION OPENING STATEMENTS WITH RESPECT TO PHASE TWO, OPENING STATEMENT ON THE DELIBERATIONS REGARDING SANCTIONS FROM THE OIG.
WE'RE NOT GONNA PRESENT ANY ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE IN PHASE TWO.
UH, WE WOULD RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS ADMITTED IN PHASE ONE BE CARRIED OVER AND CONSIDERED IN PHASE TWO.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD IN CLOSING, UH, WHEN, WHEN PHASE TWO IS COMPLETED AND CLOSED.
UH, WOULD EITHER OF THE RESPONDENTS LIKE TO MAKE AN OPENING STATEMENT AS WE DISCUSS SANCTIONS? MR. SAY NO.
NOW WE PROCEED TO FOR SANCTIONS.
UH, MR. MR. IG, MS. IGS OFFICE, DO YOU ALL HAVE ANY, UH, COMMENTS, DELIBERATIONS, OR RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING SANCTIONS? YES, I DO HAVE COMMENTS ABOUT RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, OF THE AVAILABLE SANCTIONS THAT ARE HERE.
I THINK ONE THING THAT NEEDS TO BE NOTED IS THAT MR. SEHA CAME IN HERE TODAY AND ADMITTED THAT HE DID SOMETHING WRONG.
DOESN'T MEAN IT'S THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD, BUT HE STEPPED UP LIKE A MAN AND ADMITTED WHAT HE DID.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, MY RECOMMENDATION FOR MR. SEHA WOULD BE REFERRAL TO ETHICS TRAINING.
HOWEVER, UH, MR. RODRIGUEZ DIDN'T DO THAT.
MR. RODRIGUEZ CAME IN HERE AND PLED NOT TRUE TODAY, NOT TRUE TO WHAT WE SAW IN A VIDEO.
WHAT WE SAW CONFIRMED THROUGH GPS DATA, WHAT WE SAW CONFIRMED THROUGH THE ME MEMORANDUMS OF INTERVIEW, OF THE DAMAGING ADMISSIONS THAT BOTH OF THESE INDIVIDUALS MADE.
AND SO, AS FAR AS MR. RODRIGUEZ IS CONCERNED, OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE A REFERRAL FOR ETHICS TRAINING AND REFERRAL FOR DAMAGES.
AND, UH, OUR BEST ESTIMATE, WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A RANGE ON HOW MUCH INVESTIGATIVE TIME AND PROSECUTORIAL PREPARATION TIME
[01:20:01]
THAT IT TOOK TO INVESTIGATE THIS CASE AND BRING IT TO YOU BEFORE WE STARTED TODAY.AND THAT WAS ABOUT ABOUT $4,620 AND 54 CENTS.
SAY THAT AGAIN, HOW MUCH? IT WAS ABOUT $4,620 AND 54 CENTS WHEN YOU ADD UP ALL THE INVESTIGATIVE TIME, ALL THE PROSECUTORIAL TIME, ALL THE TRIAL PREP TIME, UH, FROM WHENEVER WE GOT THE CASE TO THE TIME WE WALKED IN THE DOOR THIS MORNING.
AND THAT IS ON THE LOW END OF THE RANGE THAT WE THOUGHT WAS FAIR.
DOES THAT INCLUDE THE COST? THE WELL, AM I, AM I ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS IN MS CONTENT? YES, PLEASE.
DOES THAT INCLUDE THE COST, UM, OF THE EQUIPMENT? NO, SIR.
AND THEN IS THERE, OR IS THERE A ATTORNEY'S FEES PIECE OF THIS IN TERMS OF DAMAGES OR COSTS? THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO SEE IF THAT'S AN AVAILABLE REMEDY, BUT I MEAN IS OKAY.
SO, SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE, THE ONLY, AND YOU CAN ANSWER THIS, MISS CITY SECRETARY, THE ONLY SANCTIONS THAT WE CAN RECOMMEND FOR A CURRENT EMPLOYEE OR REFERRAL FOR ETHICS TRAINING, REFERRAL FOR DAMAGES, WHICH, UH, THERE'S A, A RECORD, UH, TO SUPPORT AND REFERRAL FOR CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
SO IN ADDITION TO A REFERRAL TO HIS SANCTION IN SANCTION OFFICIAL, WHICH WOULD BE HIS SUPERVISOR AT THE DEPARTMENT, THEN THE ONLY OTHER SANCTIONS ARE AVAILABLE, THE ONES THAT I JUST READ? CORRECT.
UH, DO, DO EITHER OF THE RESPONDENTS HAVE ANY, UH, RESPONSE, ANY COMMENTS, ANY, UH, ANYTHING THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO ADD OR PUT ON THE RECORD WITH RESPECT TO THE SANCTIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE CONSIDERED? NO.
SO UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES THEN, THERE'S NO NEED FOR A CLOSING.
WE WILL PROCEED TO THE DELIBERATIONS.
WITH RESPECT TO MR. SEHA, ARE THERE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS WITH RESPECT TO SANCTIONS? I WOULD, UH, RECOMMEND CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE I'S OFFICE RECOMMENDED, WHICH IS A REFERRAL TO ETHICS TRAINING MOTION.
SO I WOULD MOVE FOR, UH, OPTION ONE, REFERRAL TO ETHICS TRAINING.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OF DELIBERATION REGARDING THAT RECOMMENDATION? HEARING NONE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
THOSE AGAINST MOTION PASSES WITH RESPECT TO SANCTIONS AGAINST MR. RODRIGUEZ, IS THERE A MOTION WITH RESPECT TO MR. MR. RODRIGUEZ'S SANCTIONS? YES, SIR.
I WOULD, UH, MOVE THAT WE, UH, UH, RECOMMEND ONLY REFERRAL TO ETHICS TRAINING FOR MR. RODRIGUEZ.
UH, IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT? I'LL SECOND IT.
NOW, CAN WE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? NO, WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
IS THERE A DISCUSSION OF THAT MOTION ONLY ETH UH, ETHICS TRAINING AS THE, UH, SANCTION RECOMMENDED? YES, SIR.
WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE, UH, POSITION OF THE IG.
[01:25:01]
VERY DIFFICULT TO SANCTION THE PERPETRATOR PERSON WHO, UH, WHOSE HOUSE THE, UH, EQUIPMENT WAS TAKEN TO SANCTION HIM ONLY FOR ETHICS TRAINING.UH, BUT GIVE THE DRIVER WHO DOESN'T APPEAR TO HAVE, UM, UH, GAINED ANYTHING FROM THIS, UH, TO, UH, UH, REFER HIM, UH, TO REFER HIM FOR DAMAGES.
SO I THINK THAT, UH, UH, WE OUGHT TO VOTE REFER AS WE REFER MR. SEHA FOR ETHICS TRAINING.
I THINK WE OUGHT TO REFER, UH, MR. RODRIGUEZ FOR THE SAME TRAINING, UH, UH, BASED UPON THE, UH, DISCRETION OF, UH, HIS, UH, EMPLOYER.
AND THE ONLY I WOULD, I WOULD OFFER IS I THINK SOMEONE, SOMETHING WAS STOLEN.
UM, AND SO SOMEONE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
I'M, UH, A BIG BELIEVER IN, UH, ACCEPTANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY, UH, WHICH IS WHAT MR. BEAVERS WAS TALKING ABOUT.
THERE WAS ACCEPTANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY, UM, FROM, UH, MR. SEHA.
THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO ACCEPTANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY FROM MR. RODRIGUEZ.
IN FACT, UH, I WOULD, I WOULD SUGGEST THERE'S BEEN NO RESPECT FOR THE ENTIRE PROCESS.
UM, AND SO, UM, I THINK I, I THINK THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WILL, UH, BE DILIGENT IN A REASONABLE DAMAGE AMOUNT.
UM, BUT, UH, I THINK THE CONDUCT WITHIN THE HEARING SPEAKS VOLUMES.
DO WE NEED TO, IN LIGHT OF THAT, DO WE NEED TO AMEND, THOUGH? WOULD YOU ACCEPT A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT? IF, IF THERE IS ONE WITH RESPECT TO YOUR SANCTIONS RECOMMENDATION? I THINK THAT WAS HOWARD'S, IT WAS MY, UH, MOTION.
IT WAS YOUR, MY, UH, NO, I THINK WE HAVE TO VOTE ON IT.
WELL, ALL, ALL THE, WELL, THAT IS THE MOTION ON THE TABLE.
SO WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON MR. RUBIN'S MOTION.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
AND THOSE OPPOSED? OPPOSED? NAY, NAY, NAY.
IS THERE ANOTHER MOTION ON THE TABLE? I WOULD MOVE, UM, THAT THE SANCTION FOR MR. RODRIGUEZ BE UNDER NUMBER ONE, REFERRAL TO ETHICS TRAINING.
AND NUMBER TWO, REFERRAL FOR DAMAGES.
IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT MOTION? I HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE WE, UM, IS THERE A LIMITATION THAT COULD BE, I THINK I HAVE TO SECOND FOR DISCUSSION.
ONE SECOND TO PUT IT ON A TABLE.
IS THERE A LIMITATION TO THE RECOMMENDATION FOR, UM, FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY? COULD THAT BE INCLUDED IN THE SANCTION? I THINK THEY ALREADY MENTIONED HOW MUCH IT WILL COST, AND THEN THERE WAS ADDITIONAL, DEPENDING ON THE CITY ATTORNEY, HOW MUCH THAT WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR DELIBERATION WITH RESPECT TO SALES? AND FOLLOWING UP ON THAT QUESTION, IF, UH, I UNDERSTAND IT WAS $4,600 PLUS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UH, ARE WE ABLE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT IT BE NO MORE THAN A HUNDRED DOLLARS? THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
NO, THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO TRY TO SUBSTANTIATE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WOULD COME UNDER THEIR PURVIEW TO, FOR WHAT THEY WANTED TO SEEK, BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVE IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, SEEK THE DOLLAR AMOUNT.
MR. SMITH, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT OR QUESTION? NO, SIR.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF DELIBERATION REGARDING, UH, MR. SMITH'S SMITH'S MOTION? I I HAVE A, UH, QUESTION ABOUT THE PROCEDURE.
UH, HOW MANY VOTES DOES IT TAKE TO, UH, UH, PASS THE SANCTIONS? IT'S A SIMPLE MAJORITY.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION OR DELIBERATIONS? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE, UH, MOTION PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
[01:30:01]
TO TWO.ADAM, CITY SECRETARY, UH, DOES THAT WORK? YOU'RE DONE.
NO FURTHER BUSINESS, MR. CHAIR.
ANY FURTHER BUSINESS BEFORE TODAY'S COMMISSION MEETING? HEARING, HEARING NONE, UH, OUR WORK HERE IS COMPLETE AND THE, UH, MEETING IS ADJOURNED.