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ALL RIGHT, Y'ALL.[Permit and License Appeal Board on October 17, 2024.]
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.WELCOME TO THE HEARING OF THE PERMANENT AND LICENSED APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.
IT IS, UH, 8 42 ON OCTOBER 17TH, 2024.
WE HAVE TWO HEARINGS ON TODAY'S AGENDA, THAT BEING FOR ENCORE, APPEALING THE DENIAL OF THE DATE DANCEHALL LATE HOURS PERMIT.
AND DID DIOR CAFE LLC APPEALING THE DENIAL OF THE DANCEHALL LATE HOURS PERMIT? AT THIS TIME, I WILL DO A ROLL CALL.
PLEASE SAY, HERE, I'M PRESENT.
PRESENT, STEPHANIE KYLE PRESENT.
AND FRIEND VERA PRESENT, ABSENT FROM THE HEARING ARE MEMBERS ALA JEFF IS AND SHE
AND THE MEETING IS NOW CALLED THE ORDER MENTION.
WILL OTHERS PRESENT AT TODAY'S HEARING, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELVES, BEGINNING WITH THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL, ATTORNEY CARLISLE AND DANIEL MOORE.
MS. CARLISLE, THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.
MAYOR SLA MARTINEZ, DONNA GRAHAM, NANCY SANCHEZ.
AND, UH, UH, I HAVE AN ECHO, UH, FOR THE FIRST APPELLANT HEARING.
UH, CRAIG SHIELDS, THE ATTORNEY FOR THE APPELLANT, ALONG WITH ROGER ALBRIGHT AND CURTIS WISE, WELCOME GENTLEMEN.
AND, UH, FOR THE SECOND APPELLANT, YOU HAVE ANYBODY HERE OR ONLINE FOR THE SECOND APPELLANT? IS THERE ANYONE ONLINE FOR DEAD? YOUR CAFE? THIS IS ME.
I'M SORRY, COULD YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME? MY LAST NAME IS, UH, ZIAN.
AND DO YOU HAVE ANY WITNESSES WITH YOU? I DON'T.
AND I'M SORRY, MR. SHIELDS, DO YOU HAVE ANY WITNESSES WITH, UH, YES, MR. ALBRIGHT AND MR. WISE? OKAY.
AND FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY, UH, THIS IS DAVID WILKINS AND, UM, I HAVE DETECTIVE FOR, UH, THE ENCORE APPEAL AND, UH, DETECTIVE HAYNES.
SO HAYNES IS GOING TO BE ARRIVING FOR THE, FOR, UH, FOR DDR.
AND YOU'RE HANDLING BOTH OF THEM? YES.
UH, NO SPEAKERS HAVE REGISTERED TO ADDRESS THE BOARD, SO WE'LL NOT HAVE SPEAKERS IN OUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESSES.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING.
IS THERE A MOTION REGARDING MEETING MINUTES FOR THE AUGUST 15TH, 2024 MEETING? I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM OUR PREVIOUS MEETING.
A SECOND, UH, MENTIONED BY MR. QUINT TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, I'M SORRY.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MEETING MINUTES FOR THE AUGUST 15TH, 2024 MEETING.
OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS NUMBER THREE, THE APPEAL HEARING FOR ENCORE.
THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THIS HEARING IS ON THE APPELLANT.
UM, AT THIS TIME WE WILL SWEAR IN ALL WITNESSES WHO WISH TO TESTIFY, AND, UH, SINCE EVERYBODY'S HERE, WE'LL SWEAR IN ALL THE WITNESSES FOR BOTH,
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UH, ITEMS. SO, UH, IF YOU'RE ONLINE, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR CAMERA AND AUDIO ARE ON.SO YOU MAY BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU'LL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH? I DO, I DO.
UM, AND FOR TIME LIMITS THE CONSTABLE, MR. SHIELDS, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU ANTICIPATE BEING, I'M GONNA ASK FOR 20 MINUTES, BUT I'M GONNA MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO MAKE IT LESS THAN THAT.
OKAY, MR. WILKINS, I'M GONNA ASK FOR FIVE MINUTES.
I MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO MAKE IT LESS.
UH, LET'S LET, NO, I'M JUST KIDDING.
UH, I'LL GIVE YOU EACH 20 MINUTES, UH, JUST SO IT'S EVEN ANY AS MUCH OR AS IT WAS WANT.
AND JUST AS A, A POINT OF ORDER, UM, I WILL HAVE TO, UH, LEAVE THE MEETING BRIEFLY AT, AT 10, HOPEFULLY MAY BE ABLE TO GET IT WRAPPED UP.
UH, THIS, THIS PORTION WRAPPED UP BEFORE THAT.
UM, AS FAR AS EXHIBITS GO, I HAVE, UM, ONE EXHIBIT FROM THE APPELLANT.
IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, IT'S, IT'S ONE EXHIBIT, BUT THERE'S 11 EXHIBITS WITHIN THE PACKAGE.
ONE, ONE PACKAGE WITH 11 EXHIBITS.
UM, MR. WILKINS, I HAVE ONE DOCUMENT FROM YOU AS WELL, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT'S RIGHT.
BINDER, UH, SO THE BOARD HAS ACCEPTED TITLES FOR RECORD, RIGHT? UH, MS. CARLISLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE READ THE RELEVANT ORDINANCE? YES.
UM, TODAY, EXCUSE ME, YOU HAVE FOR YOU AN APPEAL OF A DENIAL OF DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT.
PURSUANT TO SECTION 14 DASH 2.3, THE BOARD MAY REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND GRANT AN EXEMPTION FROM THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTIONS FOR A LATE HOURS PERMIT.
IF THIS BOARD FINDS THE FOLLOWING, NUMBER ONE, THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED STANCE HALL WILL NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT THE NEARBY PROPERTY OR BE CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY OR WELFARE.
THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED DANCE HALL WILL NOT DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUE OR QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREA OR ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OR URBAN FLIGHT.
THREE, THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED DANCE HALL OPERATING UNDER A LATE HOURS PERMIT.
AND THE AREA WILL NOT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OR INTERFERE WITH ANY EFFORTS OF URBAN RENEWAL OR RESTORATION.
AND FOUR, ALL OTHER APPLICABLE PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER 14 WILL BE OBSERVED.
IF THIS BOARD FINDS IN THE CONTRARY TO ANY ONE OF THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT, THEN THIS BOARD MAY AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE TWO POLICE.
UH, AND NOW OPENING STATEMENTS.
UH, MR. SHIELDS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BEGIN WITH A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENT? YES, SIR.
UM, GOOD MORNING, MEMBERS OF THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE THIS MORNING.
I'M AN ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT READER ROAD LOUNGE, LLC, DOING BUSINESS AS ENCORE.
UH, I'M GONNA REFER TO HIM AS ENCORE THROUGHOUT THIS PROCEEDING.
UM, WE'RE HERE TODAY AS, AS YOU NOW KNOW, ON THE DENIAL OF THE ISSUANCE OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT TO ENCORE.
UH, ENCORE APPLIED FOR A DANCE HALL LICENSE AND INCLUDED IN THAT APPLICATION WAS, UH, AN AT REQUEST FOR A LATE HOURS PERMIT.
THE DANCEHALL APPLICATION WAS APPROVED.
HOWEVER, UH, IT IS OUR POSITION THAT THE CHIEF OF POLICE ERRONEOUSLY DENIED OUR REQUEST FOR A LATE HOURS PERMIT BECAUSE THE CHIEF FOUND THAT THE ENCORE'S BUSINESS IS GOING TO BE WITHIN 1000 FEET OF A BOUNDARY LINE OF A LOT DEVOTED TO A LEGAL RESIDENTIAL USE.
THAT RESIDENTIAL USE IS A TRAILER PARK, WHICH DOES NOT HAVE A VALID CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND I, UH, ENTERED INTO A STIPULATION, WHICH IS EXHIBIT 11 IN AN EFFORT TO KIND OF SPEED THINGS ALONG.
SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE AGREED TO, AND THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY JUST THREE OF 'EM.
AND YOU CAN LOOK AT EXHIBIT 11, OR I'M GONNA KIND OF READ 'EM, BUT THEY'RE NOT THAT EXCITING.
UH, THE LATE HOURS PERMIT WAS DENIED BECAUSE ENCORE'S BUSINESS WAS LOCATED WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF THE BOUNDARY LINE OF A LOT DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE.
UM, THE BOUNDARY LINE OF THE ROYAL LANE MOBILE HOME PARK LOCATED AT 11 3 54 CARTER LANE IS WITHIN APPROXIMATELY A THOUSAND FEET OF ENCORE'S BUSINESS.
NOW THAT THAT TRAILER PARK LAST HAD A VALID CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY SOMETIME IN 2008,
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BUT THAT CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY EXPIRED AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN A VALID CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR THIS LOCATION SINCE 2008.THE CITY AND THE APPELLANT AGREE ON, ON THESE STIPULATIONS.
UH, TODAY, AS YOU HEARD, UH, WE ARE REQUESTING THAT THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD REVERSE THE ACTION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION TWO DASH 96 C OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE BECAUSE THE TRAILER PARK DOES NOT HAVE A VALID CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AND THEREFORE IS NOT THAT USE IS NOT LEGAL OR VALID.
SO, AS SUCH, IF IT'S AN INVALID OR ILLEGAL USE, IT CANNOT SERVE AS A BASIS FOR THE DENIAL OF OUR REQUEST FOR A LATE HOURS PERMIT.
ALTERNATIVELY, WE WILL ALSO SHOW THAT ENCORE SHOULD BE GRANTED AN EXEMPTION AS, UH, COUNSEL WENT THROUGH THOSE, UH, THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
UH, BUT, BUT OUR FIRST REQUEST IS THAT THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE JUST BE REVERSED BECAUSE IT WAS ERRONEOUSLY MADE.
I HAVE TWO REPRESENTATIVES OF ENCORE HERE TODAY, MR. CURTIS WISE IS THE PRINCIPAL THE OWNER OF ENCORE, AND WHILE WE DO NOT INTEND TO CALL MR. WISE TO TESTIFY, SHOULD THE, SHOULD THE BOARD OR SHOULD COUNSEL, UH, ASK DESIRE TO ASK HIM SOME QUESTION, HE'S AVAILABLE HERE TO TESTIFY.
OUR SECOND REPRESENTATIVE IS ROGER ALBRIGHT, WHO SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW IS AN ATTORNEY WHO IS INVOLVED, BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS ZONING SINCE THE DARK AGES, I MEAN THE 1980S.
AND, AND ROGER AND I WILL GO THROUGH THE REASONS WHY A TRAILER PARK, WHICH DOES NOT POSSESS A VALID CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, IS NOT A LEGAL RESIDENTIAL USE, AND THEREFORE IS NOT A PROTECTED USE.
UM, AND WE WILL ALSO GO THROUGH THE FACTORS REGARDING WHY, UH, CONCOR WOULD BE ENTITLED TO AN EXEMPTION.
UH, MR. WILKINS, DO YOU HAVE A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENT? WELL, I WILL SAY BRIEFLY THAT, UM, UH, UH, THE APPELLANT'S POSITION, UH, IS A GOOD FAITH POSITION REGARDING, UH, INTERPRETATION OF A TERM OF THE ORDINANCE.
UM, WITHOUT GETTING TOO MUCH INTO THE WEEDS HERE, THE CITY'S RESPONSE WOULD BE THAT THE PROVISION IS, UH, THAT, UH, THIS, THIS GETS TRIGGERED WHEN YOU'RE WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF THE BOUNDARY LINE OF A LOT DEDICATED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
UH, OUR PRACTICE, ANY OTHER TIME WE DO THIS IS IF THE LOT IS DEDICATED TO RESIDENTIAL USE, IF YOU HAVE A LOT ZONED MULTIFAMILY, BUT IT'S A VACANT LOT.
THERE'S NO CO IT'S STILL DEDICATED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
UH, IN THIS CASE, THERE'S A PERMANENT SUP ALLOWING FOR TRAILER PARK, UH, ON THIS LOT.
HOWEVER, AND I WILL YIELD TO, UH, GENERAL COUNSEL ON THIS.
I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A GOOD FAITH, UH, DISPUTE OVER, YOU KNOW, THE INTERPRETATION OF THE, OF THE ORDINANCE.
BUT THIS IS NOT THE FORUM FOR THAT.
I THINK THAT THIS HEARING IS RESTRICTED TO DETERMINING WHETHER THE CRITER, THE FOUR CRITERIA ARE MET FOR, UH, REVERSING THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S DECISION, UH, TO DENY BASED ON THE LOCATIONAL JURISDICTION.
I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT THOSE FOUR FACTORS.
I, I'LL YIELD TO GENERAL COUNSEL ON THAT.
AND, UH, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS THIS IN ANOTHER FORUM, BUT
AND, UH, IF, IF THE BOARD, IF WE DO HAVE A QUESTION OF LEGAL INTERPRETATION, THE BOARD WILL DEFER TO OUR GENERAL COUNSEL.
UM, SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GOES.
UH, UM, LET'S GO AHEAD AND START WITH YOUR, YOUR PRESENTATION.
DO YOU HAVE 20 MINUTES? OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UM, MR, I'M GOING MY FIRST WITNESS, I'LL CALL ROGER ALBRIGHT.
UH, MR. ALBRIGHT, CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS? UH, YES.
6 4 4 6 PATRICK DRIVE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
MR. ALBRIGHT, CAN YOU GIVE US A BRIEF HISTORY OF YOUR WORK INVOLVING THE CITY OF DALLAS? SURE.
I, UH, SERVED ON THE, UH, DAR BOARD FROM 1981 TO 1983.
I THEN SERVED ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION FROM 1983 TO 1987.
SINCE THAT TIME, THE MAJORITY OF MY PRACTICE HAS REVOLVED AROUND, UH, LAND USE ISSUES.
MOST OF THOSE WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS, I'VE DONE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CASES,
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SUVS, ZONING CASES, UH, LITIGATION, PLAB, HEARINGS, ET CETERA.UH, SO AGAIN, I, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, I, I SLEEP WITH THE CODE UNDERNEATH MY PILLOW CONTACT.
SO, UH, MR. BERG, DO YOU KNOW THE OWNER OF ENCORE? UH, YES, SIR.
THE CORPORATE ENTITY IS READER LOUNGE, LLC.
THAT'S A LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY THAT IS ULTIMATELY OWNED BY CURTIS WISE OR ONE OF CURTIS WISE'S ENTITIES? UH, YEAH.
AND, AND WHAT DO YOU DO FOR MR. WISE AND HIS RELATED ENTITIES? UH, SORT OF GENERAL COUNSEL.
I HANDLE LICENSES, LEASES, PURCHASE AND SALE AGREEMENT.
LITIGATION QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CITY ORDINANCES AND CITY OF DALLAS OR ELSEWHERE? UH, AGAIN, GENERAL CAL, I'VE HANDLED IT FOR, YOU KNOW, DECADES.
AND SO YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH HOW LONG MR. WISE HAS BEEN OPERATING OTHER BUSINESSES AT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION? UH, YES, SIR.
THE, UH, THE BUSINESS, UH, LOCATED IN THE BUILDING, BUT, BUT NEXT DOOR HAS BEEN THERE NINE YEARS AND I'VE REPRESENTED HIM THROUGHOUT THAT TIME.
SO IN JUNE OF THIS YEAR, UH, ENCORE APPLIED FOR A DANCEHALL LICENSE, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
AND THEN IN THAT APPLICATION, THERE WAS ALSO A REQUEST FOR A LATE HOURS PERMIT? YES, SIR.
UH, THE DANCEHALL APPLICATION WAS APPROVED AND THAT LICENSE WAS ISSUED, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, HOWEVER, ON JULY 9TH, 2024, THE CHIEF OF POLICE DENIED ENCORE'S REQUEST FOR LATE HOURS PERMIT.
I WOULD LIKE TO, TO WALK THROUGH OUR EXHIBITS WITH THE BOARD AND WITH MR. ALL ALBRIGHT.
UH, SO WE CAN BRIEFLY GO THROUGH AND THE REASON WHY WE PUT THESE THINGS BEFORE YOU, UH, EXHIBIT ONE, COULD YOU DESCRIBE EXHIBIT ONE FOR US? YES, SIR.
IT'S THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY THAT, THAT WAS ISSUED TO ENCORE ON MAY 10TH OF THIS YEAR.
UH, AS WE WILL DISCUSS IN MORE DETAIL, YOU CANNOT OPERATE A BUSINESS IN THE CITY OF DALLAS WITHOUT HAVING A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY DIRECTLY RELATED TO THAT USE.
AND, AND THAT OWNER, THERE'S A FEW MINOR EXCEPTIONS, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, EVERYBODY HAS TO HAVE A CO.
AND WHAT IS THIS CO FOR? THIS CO IS FOR A COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE, WHICH IS THE CITY'S ZONING LANGUAGE FOR THINGS THAT WOULD INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM A DANCE HALL TO A BOWLING ALLEY, TO A, UH, INDOOR, UH, GO-KART PRACK, THAT SORT OF THING.
UH, EXHIBIT TWO AND IN A LITTLE DIFFERENT ORDER, BUT, UM, COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE, THE DOCUMENTS IN EXHIBIT TWO? UH, UH, YES, SIR, I DID.
IT IS OUR, UH, OUR LETTER, UH, TO THE, UH, CITY SECRETARY, UH, SEEKING TO APPEAL THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE, UH, THAT OUR LAID OUT PERMIT WOULD BE DENIED.
AND, UH, IN THAT WE ARE, UH, SEEKING TWO THINGS.
ONE, WE'RE APPEALING THE DECISION OF THE, THE, THE CHIEF, JUST LIKE HE, HE WAS WRONG, HE MISINTERPRETED THE APPLICABLE ORDINANCES OR SECONDLY, UH, IF THE BOARD BUYS THAT HE DID NOT, UH, MISINTERPRET THOSE ORDINANCES, UH, THAT WE SEEK A LOCATIONAL EXTENSION.
SO THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO THINGS BEFORE THE BOARD TODAY.
UH, LET'S MOVE TO EXHIBIT THREE.
UH, THIS IS A SURVEY, UH, OF 11 3 27 READER WROTE, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
AND DOES THIS IN FACT, SHOW, UH, WHERE THIS TRAILER PARK? UH, YES, SIR.
UH, UH, ENCORE IS CLOSE TO STEMMONS FREEWAY, UH, AND THE TRAILER PARK IS LOCATED WEST OF, UH, OF STEMMONS.
UH, AND ACCORDING TO THE, THE SURVEY, UH, THAT'S WITHIN 883 FEET OF, OF EN.
UM, MOVING ON TO EXHIBIT FOUR, THIS IS A VERY OLD ORDINANCE NUMBER 11 2 67, WHICH GRANTED A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR A TRAILER PARK.
YOU KIND OF EXPLAIN WHAT THIS IS.
IF YOU, UH, IF YOU, IF IT IS A, A NOT ALLOWED USE UNDER THE, UH, EXISTING ZONING, UH, YOU COULD GO TO THE BOARD IN, IN CER OR I'M SORRY, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF CITY COUNCIL IN, UH, IN CERTAIN CASES AND SEEK A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO SAY, WE WANT TO ALLOW THIS USE ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY.
AND THAT'S LIMITED IN, IN WHAT YOU CAN DO IT.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU COULD NOT TAKE A, A SINGLE FAMILY, UH, LOT AND SAY, I, I WANNA BUILD AN OFFICE TOWER THERE.
THE, THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE THE, THE POWER TO DO THAT, BUT IN
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LIMITED CASES, YOU COULD GRANT AN SUP AND, UH, THIS, THIS ONE DOES.AND, AND AS I SAID, I'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, DOING CITY WORK FOR, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY DECADES.
I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER SEEN A PERMANENT SUP.
IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE, THE FIRST OR FEW I I'VE EVER SEEN.
UH, BUT IT IS INTERESTING THAT IN THIS, UH, UH, SUP ORDINANCE, IF YOU LOOK AT, I GUESS IT'S THE FOURTH PAGE OF IT, UH, SECTION FOUR SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT, UH, THAT NO CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY SHALL BE ISSUED BY THE BUILDING INSPECTOR UNTIL THERE'S BEEN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SUP.
UH, AND THAT, UH, AT SECTION FIVE, IF YOU ARE VIOLATING ANY OF THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, THEN, UH, UH, YOU'RE SUBJECT TO THE SAME PENALTIES PROVIDED IN THE ORDINANCE, WHICH IN ESSENCE, YOU CANNOT LEGALLY OFFER.
SO IF, IF THEY'VE BEEN ISSUED AN SUP, DOESN'T THIS KIND OF FALL IN WITH THE CITY'S ARGUMENT THAT IT'S A VALID TRAILER PARK? NO, SIR.
TWO, TWO COMPLETELY D DIFFERENT THINGS.
SUP SAYS, THIS SPECIFIC LAND USE IS AVAILABLE FOR THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY.
HOWEVER, TO HAVE A LEGAL USE, YOU MUST HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, JUST LIKE WE HAD EXHIBIT ONE, THE CERTIFICATE OCCUPANCY THAT'S BEEN ISSUED WITH, WITH ENCORE, WITHOUT A CO YOU, YOU, IT'S AN ILLEGAL USE.
AND AT ANY TIME THERE IS A CHANGE OF USE OR CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP, YOU MUST APPLY FOR AND RECEIVE A NEW CO.
THIS USE HAS NOT HAD A CO FOR DECADES.
SO, SO IF WE MOVE ON THEN TO EXHIBIT FIVE.
IS THIS WHAT WE'RE RELYING ON TO SAY THAT IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY? Y YES, SIR.
THIS IS, IS ONE OF, THIS IS WHAT'S IN THE CODE.
THERE'S ALSO LANGUAGE IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE.
UH, AND AGAIN, THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS I'VE DEALT WITH FOR, FOR DECADES NOW.
BUT AS IT CLEARLY SAYS, YOU CANNOT USE OR OCCUPY OR CHANGING THE USE WITHOUT OBTAINING A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
NOW, THERE'S VERY LIMITED, UH, PLACES THAT DON'T NEED A A, A SU, UH, A CO YOUR YOUR SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE WHERE YOU LIVE.
THAT'S YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET THAT.
BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, ANY OTHER USE IS GOING TO REQUIRE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
IF YOU GET A NEW OWNER, YOU HAVE TO GET A NEW CO.
IF YOU CHANGE THE USE, YOU HAVE TO GET A CO.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CO, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL HAS THE AUTHORITY TO, TO BASICALLY SHUT DOWN THE USE.
I MEAN, THEY, THEY CAN COME IN AND SAY IT'S AN ILLEGAL USE, WHICH IT IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CO AND YOU EITHER GO GET A CO OR YOU SHUT DOWN.
AND, UH, BUILDING PIXEL DOES THAT ALL THE TIME.
WELL, WELL, JUST TO BE CLEAR ON, ON EXHIBIT SIX, ON TAB NUMBER SIX.
THE, THE SECOND PAGE, WHICH IS CALLED SECTION 3 0 6, CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
SO NO CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS REQUIRED FOR THOSE SIX EXCEPTIONS.
IS IS A MOBILE HOME PARK INCLUDED? NO, SIR.
YEAH, AGAIN, IT'S SINGLE FAMILY HANDICAPPED, BRUTE DWELLINGS, THAT, THAT SORT OF THING.
UH, BUT NO SIR, UH, UH, MOBILE HOME PARK DOES NOT, UH, UH, ACCOUNT, IT, IT, IT'S NOT WITHIN THE EXCEPTIONS.
SO THEREFORE, A TRAILER PARK IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IN ORDER TO BE A LEGAL USE.
IF YOU GO INTO THE, THE ZONING CODE, YOU WILL SEE THAT MOBILE HOME PARK IS LISTED AS A POTENTIAL USE DEPENDING ON THE UNDERLYING ZONING.
BUT AGAIN, IF THAT IS APPROVED BY SUP OR OTHERWISE, YOU STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE, THE BUILDING HUB, BECAUSE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS, IS, YOU KNOW, DOES SEVERAL THINGS.
I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ONE WE WERE LOOKING AT FOR THE CO, WE WERE GRANTED THAT ISN'T JUST THAT THEY ARE BLESSING THAT USE TO GET A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, YOU'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH ALL, ALL THE REVIEW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, HAVE ELECTRICAL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PLUMBING, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FIRE, ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED, DETERMINE THAT THIS USE COMPLIES WITH ALL THE CODES IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.
SO, SO IT'S, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT, IT'S REALLY THE FUNDAMENTAL WAY THAT THE CITY IS ABLE TO DETERMINE IF A USE IS OPERATING IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL THE REQUIRED CODES.
WELL, WE'LL, WE'LL SKIP EXHIBIT SEVEN.
AND LET'S, UH, BUT BEFORE WE GO TO EXHIBIT EIGHT, I'D LIKE YOU TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING FOR THE BOARD.
SO, SO THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE, THAT'S CHAPTER 14 YES.
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GOVERNS THE ISSUANCE OF DANCE HALL LICENSES AND LATE HOUR PERMIT, CORRECT? YES, SIR.SO FOR SECTION 14.3 DASH ONE A, STATES NO LATE HOURS PERMIT MAY BE ISSUED FOR A DANCE HALL LOCATED WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A PROPERTY LINE DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE AS DEFINED IN CHAPTER 41 A? YES, SIR.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT EXHIBIT EIGHT IS AN EXCERPT FROM CHAPTER 41 A.
UH, COULD YOU, COULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IT SHOWS IN SECTION 30, ITEM 30 AND EXHIBIT EIGHT FOR THE DEFINITION OF RESIDENTIAL USE? UH, YEAH, RE UH, THIS IS, UH, THE, THE CHAPTER 41, THE, UH, THE SOB ORDER, BUT IT SAYS A RESIDENTIAL USE MEANS SINGLE FAMILY DUPLEX, MULTIFAMILY OR MOBILE HOME PARK, MOBILE HOME SUBDIVISION AND CAMPGROUND.
EACH OF THOSE ARE, ARE DETERMINED.
WELL, SO THE, THAT FALLS INTO WHAT THE CITY'S SAYING.
THIS IS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL USE.
IT'S WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF AN ILLEGAL USE.
YOU, YOU CANNOT, THE MERE FACT THAT YOU HAVE UNDERLYING ZONING DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE USE YOU PUT ON THAT PROPERTY IS A LEGAL USE.
IN ORDER TO HAVE A LEGAL USE, YOU MUST HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
AND IF YOU DON'T, THEN IT IS A LOT DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE.
IT'S A LOT OCCUPIED BY AN ILLEGAL USE.
WELL, MR. ALRE, THAT'S, THAT'S INTERESTING.
AND I THINK EVERYBODY APPRECIATES, YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME, AND, UH, WE WOULD AGREE THAT, UH, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR LEGAL INTERPRETATION MAKES SENSE, BUT OTHER THAN YOUR INTERPRETATION, DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT SUPPORTS OR CORROBORATES YOUR INTERPRETATION? UH, UH YES, SIR.
IF YOU LOOK UNDER TAB, UH, 10, EXHIBIT 10, UH, AND THIS IS FROM 1998, STILL, STILL GOOD LAW.
THE CITY ATTORNEY, UH, AT THAT TIME WAS SAM LINDSEY.
SAM LINDSEY, UH, CAME OUT WITH, WITH AN OPINION LETTER, A MEMORANDUM THAT HE SUBMITTED TO THE, THE FEDERAL COURT IN LITIGATION THAT WAS THEN GOING ON.
AND IT SAYS IF A PROTECTED USE, IN THIS CASE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MOBILE HOME PARK DOES NOT HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AND IS NOT A SINGLE FAMILY OR DUPLEX THAT USE THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTIONS CONTAINING THE CHAPTER 41 8 13 DO NOT APPLY.
SO HE IS SAYING, YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE A CO AND THAT IS, HAS BEEN THE CITY'S POSITION SINCE LAST CENTURY.
UH, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AND EVERYTHING IN THE CODE, UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CO YOU'RE AN ILLEGAL USE, YOU'RE SUBJECT TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, UH, UH, THROUGH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SHUTTING YOU DOWN, YOU'RE ILLEGAL.
BUT THIS PROVISION IN THIS MEMORANDUM IS REFERENCING SECTION 41 A 13.
HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO THE, TO THE PROVISIONS IN THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE? UH, IT, IT'S THE SAME LENGTH.
YOU, YOU'VE GOT THE SAME THING ABOUT A, A LOT, UH, YOU KNOW, DEVOTED TO, TO A RESIDENTIAL USE, ET CETERA.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT CHAPTER 41 A WITH IS THE SOP ORDINANCE, AND LOOK AT CHAPTER 14, WHICH IS THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE.
IT, YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE IT HAS MIRRORED LANGUAGE.
IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S THE SAME LANGUAGE, SAME TEST.
SO I, I'M JUST, JUST TO MAKE IT EASY, SO IN, IN CHAPTER 41 A DASH 13 A FIVE, IT STATES THAT IT'S AN OFFENSE TO OPERATE AN SOB WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A PROPERTY LINE DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE.
AS DEFINED IN THIS CHAPTER, IS 41 A? YES, CORRECT.
AND THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE SECTION 43 14 3 0.1, STATES THAT ONE CANNOT OBTAIN A LATE HOURS PERMIT IF THE ESTABLISHMENT IS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF QUOTE, A PROPERTY LINE DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE AS DEFINED IN CHAPTER 41 A.
SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY THE SAME DEFINITION.
THE, THE, THE CITY, BASICALLY THEY MADE AMENDMENTS TO THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE, ADOPTED ALL THE LANGUAGE AND THE, THE UNDERLYING, UH, PROVISIONS OF THE SEX ORDINANCE BUSINESS, UH, ORDINANCE, WHICH HAD BEEN AROUND SINCE 1986.
SO BASED ON YOUR VAST EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH ZONING RELATED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF DALLAS, YOUR EXTENSIVE REVIEW AND FAMILIARITY WITH BOTH THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE AND CHAPTER 41 A,
[00:30:01]
UH, IS IT CLEAR THAT THE MOBILE HOME PARK IS NOT A LEGAL USE? YES, SIR.THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE C THE, THE, AGAIN, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL CAN, CAN ISSUE A LETTER ADVISING THE, THE MOBILE HOME PARK.
IT DOES NOT HAVE THE REQUIRED CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, THEREFORE, IT MUST DISCONTINUE OPERATING A LESSER UNTIL IT GETS A VALID CO.
AND AGAIN, THAT CO IS GOING TO, IT DIDN'T GET THAT ONE PIECE OF PAPER.
IT'S ALL THE UNDERLYING, UH, REVIEWS THAT, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO MAKE SURE, AGAIN, THAT IT'S, IT, IT MEETS BUILDING CODE, FIRE CODE, ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING, ALL THAT.
SO IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THE CHIEF OF POLICE AIRED WHEN HE DENIED ENCORE'S APPLICATION FOR A LAID OUT PERMIT? UH, NONE WHATSOEVER.
IT'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, THIS ISN'T A LOT DEDICATED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE.
THIS IS A LOT OCCUPIED BY ILLEGAL USE.
HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE LEFT? YOU HAVE THREE AND A HALF MINUTES.
WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE ROCKING WELL JUST IN CASE
UM, I'LL NOTE THAT INCLUDES YOUR TIME FOR QUESTIONING THE CITY'S.
UM, WILL THE LOCATION OF ENCORE HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON ANY NEARBY PROPERTIES? UH, NO, SIR.
THIS AREA, UH, AS YOU SEE BY THE, THE CRIME NUMBERS, CITY WILL, UH, WILL PRESENT.
IT IS A, A GENERALLY A COMMERCIAL AREA.
AND NO, IT'S NOT GONNA INTERFERE WITH ANY OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES.
WILL THE LOCATION OF ENCORE DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUE OR QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREA? UH, NO, SIR.
IF, IF ANYTHING, IT'S GOING TO TO INCREASE IT, MAKE IT BETTER BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT AN OCCUPIED BUILDING, UH, IT GENERATING TAX REVENUE, ET CETERA, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINED THE BUILDING CODE REQUIRED.
WILL THE LOCATION OF ENCORE ENCOURAGE URBAN BLIGHT? UH, NO, SIR.
THERE, THERE, THERE'S NO SUGGESTION THAT SOMEHOW IT, IT, IT IS CAUSED OR IT WILL CAUSE, OR URBAN BLIGHT.
WILL THE LOCATION OF ENCORE OPERATING UNDER A LATE HOURS PERMIT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION? NOW, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T A, A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD WHEREBY YOU, YOU KNOW, HAVE, HAVE HOMEOWNERS AND THAT SORT OF ISSUE.
THIS IS A COMMERCIAL AREA, UH, AND IT, THERE IS NO EFFORTS AT, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OR URBAN RENEWAL OR, OR THAT SORT OF THING.
SO IF ENCORE IS GRANTED AN EXEMPTION, IT'LL COMPLY WITH ALL OTHER APPLICABLE PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER 14, CORRECT? UH, UH, YES, SIR.
AND HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE DOCUMENTATION PROVIDED BY THE CITY FOR THIS HEARING? YEP, I HAVE.
UH, SO IN THE LAST YEAR, HAVE, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY POLICE CALLS? UH, THERE ARE I THE CITY SHOWS, BASED ON THE CITY'S EXHIBIT, THAT THERE WERE TWO.
THERE'S FIVE POLICE CALLS, UH, REPORTED AFTER 2:00 AM AND I POINT OUT IT'S AFTER 2:00 AM BUT AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT EVEN OPEN.
WE'RE TRYING TO BE OPEN AFTER TWO.
SO, UH, AND OF THOSE FIVE CALLS, TWO OF 'EM, UH, GENERATED, UH, POLICE REPORTS AND, UH, YOU KNOW, NEITHER ONE OF THEM WERE RELATED TO ENCORE, BUT RATHER TO THE BUSINESS NEXT DOOR.
SO YOUR CONCLUSION WOULD BE THAT ENCORE IS ENTITLED TO AN EXEMPTION, UH, UNDER THE DANCE ON IT? ABSOLUTELY.
WE, WE MEET ALL FIVE CRITERIA.
UM, BEFORE WE MOVE TO THE CITY'S QUESTIONING, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR MS. CARLISLE.
UM, SO I'LL RECOGNIZE MYSELF FOR POINTING, UM,
UM, DO YOU KNOW IF THE CITY, DO YOU HAVE THE EXHIBITS THAT OH, YEAH, I, THAT'S OKAY.
UM, DO YOU KNOW IF THE CURRENT CITY ATTORNEY HAS, OR SINCE THEN, SINCE 1998, THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS CONTRADICTED THIS INTERPRETATION? I DO NOT.
UM, DO YOU KNOW IF THERE'S ANY WAY WE CAN FIND OUT IN RELATIVE NATURE ORDER? I AM NOT SURE.
UM, YOU MAY SOLVE THAT PROBLEM WITH YOUR ANSWER TO MY SECOND QUESTION, WHICH IS, UH, CAN THE BOARD DECIDE THAT THIS, UH, PERMIT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DENIED, OR ARE WE LIMITED TO ONLY DECIDING THAT AN EXEMPTION CAN BE READ? AND BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT, COULD
[00:35:01]
I GIVE AN OBJECTION ON THE RECORD REAL QUICK? THE, UH, SECTION 90, SECTION 2.2 DASH NINE SIX STATES, THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD SHALL DECIDE THE APPEAL ON THE BASIS, BASIS OF A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT THE HEARING.IF THERE IS A DISPUTE OF FACT, THIS IS A DISPUTE OF LAW.
SO THIS IS NOT, WE'LL GET, WE'LL GET TO THAT QUESTION.
UM, BUT IT MAY, IT MAY NOT MATTER, UM, IF WE'RE LIMITED TO DECIDING THIS, ONLY IF WE'RE LIMITED TO DECIDING ONLY WHETHER AN EXEMPTION SHOULD BE FAIR.
AND IT'S THE CHIEF OF POLICE THAT MAKES A DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE WITHIN THE LOCATION THAT'S DEDICATED DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
SO BECAUSE THAT DETERMINATION HAS BEEN MADE, YOU ARE ONLY LIMITED TO THE FOUR FACTORS IN GRANTING THE EXEMPTION, NOT OKAY.
DISPUTING WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS LOCATED NEAR A RESIDENTIAL USE.
UM, THEN MY FINAL QUESTION IS, CAN WE, AND I THINK YOU MAY HAVE ALREADY JUST ANSWERED IT, BUT CAN WE GRANT THE EXEMPTION ON THE BASIS THAT THE PERMIT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DENIED IN THE FIRST PLACE? NO.
WELL, IT'S GONNA BE SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSION.
UM, MR. WILKINS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE, I'M NOT GONNA ADDRESS THE, THE QUESTION OF LAW HERE, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THAT SHOULD DOWN TO COURT, UM, AND I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT, UH, EVIDENCE RELATED TO THE FOUR FACTORS THAT WE'RE HERE TO DECIDE TODAY.
SO I, I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY FAR APART ON THAT, SO, OKAY.
SO MY UNDERSTANDING OF OUR GENERAL COUNSEL'S ADVICE IS THAT TODAY THE BOARD IS LIMITED TO DECIDING WHETHER THE EXEMPTION SHOULD BE GRANTED BASED ON THE SAME FACTORS, BUT WE USUALLY USE TO DETERMINE WHETHER EXCEPTIONS.
UM, SO OBVIOUSLY THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE REIGN TO USE THEIR TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS AS THEY SEE FIT, BUT, UM, WE ARE BOUND TO FOLLOW OUR GENERAL COUNSEL'S ADVICE ON THE LAW.
SO LET THAT BE YOUR GUIDE AS WE GO THROUGH BOARD QUESTIONING.
UH, MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT? I'M ONLY FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA FROM GOING TO PICK UP, UM, LIKE A HOME IMPROVEMENT PRODUCT.
UH, I DIDN'T REALIZE ANYONE LIVED AROUND THERE.
DO YOU THINK THAT, OR HAVE YOU NOTICED? 'CAUSE I'VE NOT BEEN THERE LATE AT NIGHT, UM, THAT THE, THE BUILDING IS LOUDER THAN THE INTERSTATE, RIGHT? BECAUSE I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THAT'S, THAT, THAT QUESTION.
NOTHING'S LOUDER THAN THE INTERSTATE, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, GOOD POINT.
I, IT'S THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
I SERIOUSLY, I, YOU KNOW, I JOKE ABOUT IT, BUT, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, UNDER, UH, HUD RULES HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, YOU CANNOT BUILD RESIDENTIAL USES, UH, IN A LOCATION THAT IS ABOVE A CERTAIN NOISE THRESHOLD.
AND THE INTERSTATE IS ABOVE THAT, THAT NOISE THRESHOLD, WHICH IS WHY YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T SEE APARTMENT COMPLEX, YOU KNOW, BUILT ALONG THE, THEY ARE THAT THE CONSTRUCTION HAS TO BE SUCKED, THAT YOU KNOW, THAT THEY'RE PROTECTED FROM THE NOISE.
SO, I MEAN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, AND, AND AGAIN, UH, FOR THE, THE TRAILER PARK, IT'S ALMOST A THOUSAND FEET AWAY.
IT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF, UH, STIM.
SO I, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY NOISE EFFECT ON THAT.
WE'VE, WE'VE NEVER BEEN CITED EITHER US OR THE, THE USE NEXT DOOR NEVER BEEN CITED FOR LOUD NOISE.
NOBODY'S EVER FILED A NOISE COMPLAINT AGAINST IT, ET CETERA.
A AS YOU SAY, IT'S, UH, IT'S AN AREA THAT
[00:40:01]
GENERALLY SPEAKING IS, IS, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL USES,I MEAN, IT'S THOSE KIND OF USES.
UM, MS. WILLIS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? JUST HERE? OKAY.
UH, LE TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UH, YES.
UH, SO MUCH TIME WAS SPENT ON, I GUESS, THE LAW PORTION OF IT, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS OR MAY NOT BE THE PROPER FORM FOR THAT.
SO CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT ON COR IN AND OF ITSELF, UM, AND LIKE, HOW LATE DO YOU OPERATE AT THE MOMENT? IT, IT'S NOT OPERATING RIGHT NOW.
IT'S NOT OPERATING, WE'RE, WE'RE WAITING FOR, FOR THE, YOU KNOW, DECISION ON THIS HEARING.
SO THIS IS, UH, SO HOW LONG HAS, UM, I MEAN, WE, WE HAD A CO HAD A CO SINCE, UH, MAY.
SO WE'VE DONE ALL OF THAT THROUGH BUILDING INSPECTION.
YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE COULD, WE COULD OPEN UP TODAY, BUT WE'D HAVE TO CLOSE IT AT TWO THE LATE HOURS.
ALL IT DOES IS EXTEND THE CLOSING HOURS FROM 2:00 AM TO 4:00 AM BUT, BUT THOSE ARE SOME OF THE HOURS IN WHICH WE, WE WANNA OPERATE.
SO WE, WE'VE NOT YET OPENED THE DOORS.
SO MR. WISE, HOW LONG HAS, HOW LONG HAVE YOU OWNED, UM, ENCORE, UH, THIS YEAR, UM, THE ENTITY, WELL WAS FORMED, UH, IN THE SPRING OF THIS YEAR AND, UM, KNOWN THE BUILDING IN A DIFFERENT ENTITY AND THE SUITE THAT WAS CREATED FOR, UH, TO WORK FOR ENCORE TO BE OPERATED.
WE HAVE SUBMITTED, UH, REMODELING AND, UH, PLANS, UH, ET CETERA WITH THE CITY OF WHICH EVERYTHING, UH, IS, I, I THINK ESSENTIALLY BEEN APPROVED EXCEPT FOR THE LATE HOURS, UH, PERMIT.
AND, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE HAVE NOT STARTED ANY REMODELING OR CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS A, A CURRENTLY OFFICE SPACE THAT WE'RE MOVING TO THE INSIDE COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT.
UM, SO WHAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE BIGGEST BENEFIT OF, OF BEING OPEN FROM TWO TO FOUR? AND WHY IS THAT HOLDING YOU BACK FROM JUST OPENING PERIOD? WELL, THE BIGGEST BENEFIT, UH, OF THE TWO TO FOUR IS, UH, UH, TO, TO HAVE A PLACE, UH, FOR, UH, CUSTOMERS TO GO, UH, LISTEN TO MUSIC.
UH, THE DANCE HALL LIES THE, WE HAVE A SMALL DANCE FLOOR AND, UH, JUST A KIND OF A WIND DOWN BECAUSE, UH, YOU KNOW, DALLAS IS AN INTERNATIONAL CITY AND REALLY THE CITY DOESN'T CLOSE IT AT TWO, AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY IT.
HOW MANY, UM, PEOPLE DOES THIS VENUE HOLD? SO, UH, IT'S NOT ON THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, BUT ON OUR PLANS, I, I BELIEVE WE ARE APPROVED FOR LIKE TWO, JUST 208 OR 211, 2 15, SOMEWHERE IN THERE AT FULL OCCUPANCY, WHICH, UH, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'LL REACH THAT.
IT'S, UM, 40, UH, 40, 4400 SQUARE FEET.
UH, THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR THAT CHAIR.
MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
MR. CILLA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YEAH, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.
JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS LOCATION.
WHEN I LOOK UP THIS ADDRESS, IT COMES UP A BUCKS WILD, UH, ADULT ENTERTAINMENT STRIP BAR.
IS THAT THE SAME PLACE OR WHAT, WHAT EXACTLY IS THIS? IS IT NEXT DOOR? NEXT DOOR? IT'S NEXT DOOR.
AND SO THIS IS, THIS IS A CLOSED AREA, OR THIS RIGHT NOW IS CLOSED, NO OPERATION, AS YOU JUST EXPLAINED.
AND THE INTENTION IS TO HAVE THIS JUST OPENED UP AS A WIND DOWN OR NOT A WIND DOWN, I GUESS BEFORE 2:00 PM BUT I ASSUME THERE'S NO ALCOHOL BEING SERVED BETWEEN, OR, OR EXCUSE ME, 2:00 AM UH, THERE'S NO ALCOHOL BEING SERVED AFTER 2:00 AM TO 4:00 AM IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.
UNDER, UNDER STATE LAW, UH, YOU CANNOT, UH, SERVE OR ALLOW THE PUBLIC CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 2:00 AM AND 7:00 AM I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD, UH, THE USAGE.
AND SO, UM, WHAT'S, I GUESS WHAT WILL BE HAPPENING BEFORE 2:00 AM IS IT A JUST A DANCE PLACE? IS IT PLACE, ARE YOU GONNA BE ABLE TO EAT THERE? I'M SORRY,
JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, IS IT A RESTAURANT OR ONLY AN ENTERTAINMENT PLACE? UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SERVING FOOD.
[00:45:01]
UH, IT IS GOING TO BE A DANCE HALL, WHICH IS THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT WE'VE REQUESTED, UH, AND HAS BEEN APPROVED AS A DANCE HALL.UH, SO THERE'S GONNA BE DANCING, THERE'S A DANCE FLOOR, THERE'S GONNA BE, UH, BE MUSIC, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, THEORETICALLY THEY COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEY DECIDED TO HAVE, HAVE MAGIC ACTS OR COMICS OR ANY OF THAT.
ALL OF THAT, THAT WOULD, WOULD BE, WOULD FALL UNDER THAT UMBRELLA OF A COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT USE.
UH, SO THEY COULD DO, DO ANY OF THAT, BUT IT'S BASICALLY, IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING ENTERTAINMENT TO THE PUBLIC OF, OF ONE FORM OR ANOTHER.
AND IN REGARD IT, THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IS THE ACTUAL MOBILE HOME PARK ACROSS THE HIGHWAY, SIR, AM I YES, SIR.
LOOKING AT THE MAP CORRECTLY? YES, SIR.
YOU, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, THEY CAN'T SEE US.
WE CAN'T SEE THEM, UH, UNTIL THIS CAME UP, I'M NOT SURE ANYBODY EVEN REALIZED THERE WAS BOB HOME PARK THERE.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT, THERE'S NO INTERACTION.
WHERE OF THAT IT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF WHAT IS A, WHAT, YOU KNOW, WITH SERVICE ROADS AND ALL THAT.
PROBABLY ABOUT 10, 12 LANES OF STEMS, MOSTLY.
LIKE I SAID, OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR IS A, UH, UH, SELF HISTORIC, UH, FACILITY.
UH, THE STUFF THAT IS, IS ALONG, YOU KNOW, READER OR ALONG THAT PART OF THE HIGHWAY IS, IS YES, OR GENERALLY SPEAKING, UH, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL USAGE.
IT'S, IT, IT'S NOT A, NOT A NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I HAVE THREE, UH, THREE MINUTES.
FIRST, DO YOU HAVE A PERMIT TO SERVE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES UP UNTIL TWO O'CLOCK? UH, NO.
WE HAVE NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE PERMIT.
IS IT YOUR INTENT TO GET ONE IN THE FUTURE OR ARE YOU JUST GONNA BE AN OVERFLOW FOR BUCKS WILD? UH, IT'S A, UH, SEPARATE ENTITY AND REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BUCK WILD, UH, BUT, UH, IT IS JUST GONNA BE A LOUNGE WITH DANCING AND NO ALCOHOL.
UM, WHAT SECURITY MEASURES ARE YOU PLANNING TO PUT IN PLACE, SPECIFICALLY IN THE 2:00 AM TO 4:00 AM TIMEFRAME? WE HAVE, UH, ALL OF OUR LOCATIONS, UH, WHERE WE OPERATE OUR OTHER BUSINESSES, WE HAVE, UH, THIRD PARTY SECURITY, UH, FULLY LICENSED AND INSURED.
AND, UH, THEY WILL DEFINITELY BE EMPLOYED, UH, TO, UH, PROTECT.
UH, WE NOT ONLY DO IT FOR SAFETY, BUT IT HELPS OUR INSURANCE AND EVERYTHING TOO FOR THE OPERATION.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THIS ENTIRE PROPERTY, UH, THIS BUILDING HAS FOUR SUITES THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED IN THE BUILDING, UH, OFFICE.
UH, THIS LOCATION, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE, AND THEN BUCK WILD.
SO THERE'S FOUR SEPARATE SUITES, AND THERE'S ONE WAY IN THE PARKING LOT AND ONE WAY OUT.
SO WE HAVE A FAIRLY SECURE LOCATION.
AND DO YOU PLAN TO HAVE ANY MEASURES IN PLACE TO KEEP ANYBODY WHO IS DRUNK, UH, NOT FROM OBVIOUSLY DRINKING AT YOUR PLACE, BUT FROM GETTING INTO THEIR CAR? OR HAVE YOU GOT, UH, WILL YOUR SECURITY PEOPLE BE LOOKING OUT FOR THAT? OH, YES, SIR.
THAT'S A STANDARD, UH, OPERATING PROCEDURE.
UH, WE PROVIDE FREE RIDES HOME AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE WITH THEIR OTHER BUSINESSES.
AND THAT'S, UH, I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S A DAILY THING, BUT IT HAPPENS OFTEN.
AND MY LAST, I ACTUALLY, IT'S GONNA BE FOUR.
UM, MY LAST QUESTION IS A BIT BLUNT AND RUDE AND I APOLOGIZE, BUT I, I'M JUST TOTALLY MYSTIFIED WHY YOU ALL SPENT THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR ALLOCATED TIME GETTING INTO THIS LEGAL ISSUE OF THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY OF THE TRAILER PARK, UH, RATHER THAN THE OTHERS.
ARE YOU LOOKING FOR US TO GIVE YOU SOME KIND OF A RULING THAT YOU CAN THEN USE AS A PRECEDENT FOR SOME OTHER PURPOSE? ROGER, ROGER? UH, YES, SIR.
LEMME TELL YOU THAT, THAT THE PLAB IS ESTABLISHED UNDER CHAPTER TWO OF THE, UH, THE CITY CODE AND SECTION TWO DASH 96 VERY SPECIFICALLY SAYS, AND I'M READING, UH, TWO DASH 96 C.
IT SAYS, THE BOARD, UH, UH, YOU, YOU SAYS YOU CAN, UH, THE PERMIT LICENSE FIELD BOARD SHALL HEAR AND CONSIDER EVIDENCE OFFERED.
[00:50:01]
UH, IT SHALL DECIDE THE APPEAL BY A PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT SAYS THE BOARD, PLAB SHALL AFFIRM REVERSE OR MODIFY THE ACTION OF THE DIRECTOR ON A, ON A, UH, MOTION OR LEAVE IT UN UNCHECK.WE BELIEVE 2 96 CLEARLY SAYS OUR FORUM TO, TO COME BEFORE THE CITY AND SAY THE THE CHIEF WAS WRONG, IS THE PLAB.
AND THE ORDINANCE THAT ESTABLISH THE PLAB GIVES YOU THE POWER TO REVERSE THE DECISION.
IF YOU DECIDE, AS A MATTER OF FACT OR LAW WAS WRONG, YOU TAKE IT AS, AS A MATTER OF FACT, AS A MATTER OF FACT, THAT TRAILER PARK DOES NOT HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, IT IS THEREFORE AN ILLEGAL USE.
SO, SO I THINK THE BOARD HAS THE POWER AND THIS IS THE PLACE WE, WE NEED THE CUP AS, AS THE CHIEF.
UH, WHEN, WHEN HE SENDS OFF THE LETTER OF DENIAL, HE SPECIFICALLY, UH, TELLS THE APPLICANT LIKE HE DID WITH US, THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL.
AND IN THE REQUEST FOR THE APPEAL, WE ASK FOR TWO THINGS.
ONE IS WE'RE APPEALING THE DECISION ITSELF, AND IF FOR WHATEVER REASON THE BOARD IS NOT, UH, UH, OF, OF A MIND TO, TO OVERTURN WHAT THE CHIEF DECIDED, THEN YES, WE ALSO SEEK A LOCATIONAL EXEMPTION.
BUT OUR APPLICATION TO THIS BOARD WAS FOR TWO THINGS.
OUR, OUR MATERIAL, UH, WHEREBY WE'VE, UH, WE'VE REQUESTED THAT AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT, WHAT, UH, SECOND 2, 9 6 THAT CREATED THE PLAB SIT.
YOU HAVE THE POWER TO AFFIRM, REVERSE OR MODIFY THE, UH, THE A SHEET.
YOU AREN'T LIMITED JUST TO A LOCATIONAL EXEMPTION.
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS.
AND, AND AGAIN, I'VE BEEN, BEEN WITH THE PLAV FOR YEARS.
OKAY, MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, MR MOVEMENT? I, I DO, I DO.
ALRIGHT, I DO CHAIR, UM, UH, MR. ALBRIGHT.
AND, AND I DON'T MEAN TO BE BLUNT, BUT BEAR WITH ME ON THIS.
SO YOU DO AFFIRM THAT THE, THE BUSINESS IS 883 FEET FROM THE TRAILER PARK.
UH, THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHAT THE CITY SURVEY SAYS THAT YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT DISPUTING THAT NUMBER.
AND SO HOW MANY HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THIS TYPE OF LAW FOR DECADES? YES, SIR.
SO, SO MY QUESTION'S GONNA BE REALLY BLUNT.
SO WOULDN'T YOU THINK WITH DECADES OF WORK THAT SOMEONE WOULD'VE SAID, HEY, LET'S MAKE SURE NOTHING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
WOULDN'T THAT BE STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE? UH, SURE.
I MEAN, YOU OFTEN DRIVE THE, UH, THE SURROUNDING AREA.
UH, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T, YEAH, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY KNEW THIS, UH, THIS ILLEGAL TRAILER PARK WITH 883 FEET FEET AWAY.
IT'S JUST, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, O OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T TRY AND OPEN SOMETHING IF, IF, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NEXT DOOR TO A, YOU KNOW, A HOUSE OR A SCHOOL OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
AND, AND, UH, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS, BUT AGAIN, I WOULDN'T SOMEONE HAVE MADE 100% SURE BEFORE SOMEONE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY TO BUILD OUT A CLUB THAT WE ARE CLEAR OF ANYTHING THAT MIGHT IMPEDE US.
WELL, HOW WE DO THAT AS PART OF THE APPLICATION PROCESS, WE HAVE TO PAY A SURVEY FEE TO THE CITY.
AND THE CITY SURVEY, UH, IS, IS WHAT'S IN YOUR BOOK AND WHAT KEEPS BASED HIS, HIS THE CITY ON, IF WE GO OUT AND SURVEY, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T HAVE THE OPTION OF GOING TO THE CITY AND SAID, HEY, WE, WE DROVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE, UH, WE MEASURED, WE, WE DON'T FIND ANYTHING.
THAT'S A DECISION MADE BY THE CITY SURVEYOR.
UH, AND THAT IN TURN HANDED OVER TO THE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CHIEF OF POLICE, UH, AS A BASIS FOR HIS DECISION.
SO, SO YES, SIR, THERE IS A WHOLE PROCESS.
UH, AND, UH, UH, I, I DO, I DO TOTALLY GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT I ONLY HAVE LIMITED TIME.
BUT, BUT IN MY LITTLE P BRAIN, I WOULD THINK BEFORE SOMEONE SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OR WHATEVER THEY WOULD'VE DRIVEN.
BUT I'M GONNA END IT WITH THIS QUESTION.
SO YOUR SOLE ARGUMENT IS BASED ON THE TRAILER PARK NOT HAVING A CO, UH, Y YES, SIR.
IN, IN THE HALF WHEREBY WE BELIEVE THE, THE CITY OUGHT TO BE REVERSED.
THE OTHER ISSUE, OBVIOUSLY IS THE LOCATIONAL EXEMPTION THAT WE ALSO PUT ON, ON EVIDENCE ABOUT THAT.
BUT YES SIR, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CORRECT THAT IN
[00:55:01]
THE FIRST ISSUE, THE TRAILER PARK IS AN ILLEGAL USE.AN ILLEGAL USE AS AS FEDERAL JUDGE.
YOU KNOW, SAM LINDSEY, YOU KNOW, DECIDED WHEN HE WAS, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY, AN ILLEGAL USE DOESN'T COUNT.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT SAM SAID IN 1998.
AND IT'S REMAINED THE CITY'S POSITION CONSISTENTLY OVER WHAT IS NOW, YOU KNOW, THE LAST 25 PLUS YEARS.
MR. BOB, I APPRECIATE YOUR, UH, YOUR, YOUR CANDOR AND YOUR ANSWERS.
COULD MR, COULD MR. WISE ADDRESS YOUR, YOUR EARLIER QUESTION JUST VERY BRIEFLY.
SO, UM, MR. BIER, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
CAN I MAKE A POINT OF INQUIRY REAL QUICK? UM, I, I WOULD ASK THAT WE ASK THE GENERAL COUNSEL, UM, REGARDING SECTION 2.96.
IT'S TRUE THAT THIS BOARD CAN REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE, BUT THAT ISN'T THAT LIMITED TO ONLY IF THERE'S A DISPUTE OF FACT AND A DISPUTE OF FACT HERE WOULD BE WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT IT IS NOT WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF THE TRAILER PARK.
SO YOU CAN ASK ME TO ASK YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING.
I'M ASKING YOU TO ASK TO COUNCIL THAT.
UM, I'M GONNA HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS FOR THE GENERAL COUNSEL AND THAT MAYBE AMONG DONE, UM, OKAY.
SO, UM, MY QUESTION, MY FIRST QUESTION FOR YOU IS A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE OF THE DIRECT SCOPE, BUT I ASSUME THAT YOU'RE NOT JUST HERE ONLY ASKING FOR THE EXEMPTION BECAUSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE TO COME BACK CORRECT.
AND THAT IF WE COULD AND DO, WE CAN AND DO DECIDE FOR YOU ON YOUR FIRST ISSUE, THEN, THEN WE'RE SET, THEN YOU'RE SET FOR THE LIFE OF THIS BUSINESS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK IN A YEAR.
BUT YOU'RE ALSO ARGUING THAT YOU'RE ENTITLED TO THE EXEMPTION, IN WHICH CASE YOU WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK IN A YEAR AND MAKE THE CASE AGAIN A YEAR AFTER YEAR.
THAT'S, SO THEN MY SECOND QUESTION IS, UM, WOULD YOU NOT RATHER THAT WE DENY YOU THE EXEMPTION AND THEN YOU HAVE AN APPEAL TO THE DISTRICT COURT WHERE YOU MIGHT BETTER BE ABLE TO MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT THE SCOPE OF THE ORDINANCE? NO, BECAUSE THE, THE REVIEW, WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE WEEDS OF THE LAW, THE SCOPE OF REVIEW OF A DISTRICT COURT WOULD BE VERY LIMITED.
UH, IT WOULD BE PREFERABLE, UH, IF, IF YOU DID NOT REVERSE THE DECISION TO GRANTS THE LOCATIONAL EXEMPTION, BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS US TO, TO FINISH UP OUR WORK, OPEN THE DOORS, UH, START OPERATING DISTRICT COURT'S, A WHOLE NOTHER, YOU KNOW, THING THAT WOULD GO OFF FOR YEARS.
UM, IS ANYBODY CURRENTLY LIVING IN THAT TRAILER PARK? FAR AS I KNOW THERE ARE.
DO YOU KNOW, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY? I, I I COULD NOT TELL YOU THE NUMBER OF THE SIZE.
I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT, IT, IT DOES EXIST.
THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, TRAILERS THERE.
UH, BUT NO, I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT.
I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA THAT NOT.
AND IT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY FROM YES, SIR.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXHIBIT THREE OF THE CITY, I MEAN, YOU COULD SEE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE, THE SIMMONS IS, IS BETWEEN US.
AND THEN EVEN AFTER YOU GO ACROSS THE, UH, THE HIGHWAY, THERE'S ANOTHER FULL COMMERCIAL BLOCK BEFORE YOU, YOU, YOU GET TO THE, THE TRAILER HOME.
SO, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAY, WE'RE, WE'RE IN A BUILDING HIGHWAY THAN A BLOCK OF, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF FEET.
AND THEN THE, THE TRAILER BOX.
AND THEN YOU'RE IN THE SAME BUILDING WITH BUCK WILD? YES, SIR.
AND THE DIFFERENT SUITE, THE SAME BUILDING.
THEY HAVE AN AFTER OUR PERMIT, I ASSUME? UH, NO, FOR, UH, FOR, UH, SEXUAL ORIENTED BUSINESSES UNDER THE, UH, THE, THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, UH, YOU HAVE TO CLOSE AT 2:00 AM.
UM, ALRIGHT, THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.
UH, WE WILL, WE CAN GO BACK FOR TWO MINUTES IF ANYBODY HAS MORE QUESTIONS.
UM, MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE, UH, ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
[01:00:02]
NO, I GUESS THE MAJORITY OF YOUR CLIENTELE COME BETWEEN TWO AND FOUR.I I'M A LITTLE PERPLEXED ON WHY YOU'RE NOT OPEN NOW, JUST 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T BE OPEN PAST TWO.
WELL, I'M SORRY, WILL YOU RESTATE THE QUESTION? I DIDN'T HEAR, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE, THE, DO MAJORITY OF YOUR PATRONS COME BETWEEN TWO AND 4:00 AM IS THAT WHY YOU'RE NOT OPEN RIGHT NOW? WE, WE, WE ARE NOT OPEN BECAUSE WE HAVE SUBMITTED PLANS FOR THE REMODELING.
WE HAVE NOT STARTED THE REMODEL.
SO IT'S A NEW, THIS IS AN ENTIRELY NEW BUSINESS? YES, SIR.
IS THAT OKAY? UM, WEST YOUR TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES.
UH, MR. WISE, WHAT IS YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE FOR THIS? ONCE YOU OPEN, YOU KNOW, AND YOU, YOU WANNA BE OPEN FROM TWO TO FOUR, KIND OF ALONG, SIMILAR QUESTION THAT YOU, WELL, THERE ARE MULTIPLE, UM, UH, LATE HOURS DANCE HALL, UH, PERMITS IN THE CITY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY, BUT, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S MANY PLACES THAT ARE OPEN, TWO TO FOUR, UH, OR LATE NIGHT.
AND, UH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A LOT OF, UM, ACTIVITY IN THE CITY AND, AND OUR TARGET AUDIENCE IS, UH, PEOPLE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, DON'T WANT TO GO HOME, UH, OBVIOUSLY, UH, THEY JUST WANNA LISTEN TO MUSIC WIND DOWN.
UM, AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY IT.
UH, IT, IT'LL BE A DANCE HALL.
AND, UH, YOU, THERE'S NO ALCOHOL, BUT IS THERE PLANS IN THE FUTURE TO PROVIDE ALCOHOL? NO, I ANSWERED THAT EARLIER.
UH, THERE'S NO PLANS TO GET AN ALCOHOL PERMIT.
DO YOU CHARGE A COVER? DO YOU PLAN? THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO MAKE MONEY IS WE WILL HAVE REFRESHMENTS, UH, YOU KNOW, AND, UM, A COVER CHARGE.
WHAT'S YOUR COVER GOING TO BE? UH, I DON'T HAVE THE, UH, THE FULL BUSINESS PLAN ON THAT, BUT IT WILL BE A NORMAL LATE NIGHT COVER.
IF WE'RE ABLE TO GET, UH, UH, ENOUGH TRAFFIC AT 20, THEN IT'LL BE 20.
AND IF WE HAVE NOBODY COMING, IT'LL BE FIVE UNTIL WE CAN GET SOME TRAFFIC.
SO WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE DENIAL WOULD AFFECT YOU FINANCIALLY? UH, YES.
I, IT'S, IT WOULD, IT'S A BIG PART OF THE, OF THE BUSINESS PLAN TO HAVE LATE NIGHT BUSINESS.
IF YOU, IF WE DENY IT AND YOU CAN'T OPEN FROM TWO TO FOUR, WILL WILL YOU JUST NOT OPEN PRIOR TO THAT PERIOD? UH, I'M NOT SURE.
UH, HONESTLY, COULDN'T ANSWER THAT AT THIS TIME.
THEN ANOTHER QUESTION BACK ABOUT IT.
UH, MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
MR. CILLA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE RECOGNIZ TO YEAH.
QUESTIONS ARE IN REGARDING, YOU SAID YOU OWN OTHER LOCATIONS.
WHAT OTHER LOCATIONS DO YOU OWN AND HOW FAR ARE THEY AWAY IN ORDER TO, TO, UM, SHARE YOUR SECURITY? WELL, THE
THEY ARE, THAT'S ONE OF YOUR OWNER, YOU OWN ONE OF THOSE LOCATIONS? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YOU OWN I HAVE AN ENTITY THAT DOES, YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT'S THE CFB CLUBS OR WHATEVER THAT IS.
I THINK IT WAS A CFB CLUBS OR SOME KIND OF CLUBS, UM, ENTITY THAT WAS REFERENCED IN THE APPLICATION.
UM, I'M, I'M NOT, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS KIND OF THE UMBRELLA COMPANY.
SO I, WHO, I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT IS.
BUT BUCK WILD IS ONE OF YOUR LOCATIONS, SO YOU SHARE THAT CIII THOUGHT YOU WERE SAYING CFE.
YEAH, THAT, THAT'S ONE OF, THAT'S ONE OF MY CONSULTING ENTITIES.
AND THEN THE, SO THE SECURITY AT BUCKS WILD WOULD BE SHARED WITH THIS LOCATION THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO OPEN UP CALLED ENCORE? UH, YES.
AND THEN, UH, SINCE, UH, BUCKS WILD DOES, CL DOES CLOSE IT TOO.
I HAVEN'T TALKED TO THE SECURITY COMPANY, BUT I'M SURE THEY WOULD WELCOME ADDITIONAL, UH, HOURS TO, TO WORK AND, UH, WE'VE GOT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM.
HOW LONG WOULD THE REMODEL TAKE SINCE YOU GOT YOUR CO IN MAY, I GUESS, ARE YOU, AND YOU'RE WAITING ON, I GUESS, PLANS TO BE APPROVED.
YOU ALREADY HAVE THE ARCHITECTURAL PLANS OR DESIGN PLANS? I, HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE? YES.
IT'D PROBABLY TAKE, UM, 90 DAYS, UH, MAYBE 120 DAYS, UH, WHEN WE START.
UH, AND, UM, YEAH, AND, AND REALLY, UH, I PAUSED THE, UH, THE, THE PROCESS WHILE WE WERE WAITING ON OUR LATE HOURS.
[01:05:01]
THAT'S A, THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE BUSINESS PLAN.AND WOULD THE LOCATION, IF YOU OPENED BEFORE 2:00 AM IT WOULD BE A-B-Y-O-B OR BE NO, NO BOTTLE, NO ALCOHOL AT ALL BEING BROUGHT IN? WELL, IT COULD BE BYOB BEFORE TOO.
THAT'S YOUR, THAT'S YOUR INTENTION THAT THAT'S YOUR TIME.
UH, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES OF QUESTIONS? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
MR. QUINT, DO YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES OF QUESTIONS? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
UH, MR. VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
AND, UH, I HAVE NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
SO WITH THAT, UH, WE'LL MOVE TO THE CITY AND ITS PRESENTATION.
UH, CITY CALLS, UH, GERARDO MONTREAL.
DO UM, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME OF RECORD RECORD.
AND HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? EMPLOYED WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? I'VE BEEN EMPLOYED, UH, I'VE BEEN WORKING FOR THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR 28 YEARS.
WHAT UNIT ARE YOU CURRENTLY WORKING IN? CURRENTLY WORKING WITH THE, UH, VICE UNIT LICENSING UNIT.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH VICE LICENSING? VICE LICENSING? BEEN THERE FOR THREE YEARS.
WHAT ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES IN, IN VICE LICENSING? PART OF MY RESPONSIBILITIES ARE GONNA BE TO, UH, UH, LOOK AT THE, UH, CHAPTER 14, UH, CITY CODE.
I MEAN WE, UH, PROCESS DANCE HALL LICENSE, UH, UH, LATE HOURS VILLAGE HALL LICENSE AND EASEMENT CENTER LICENSE AND SOB LICENSES.
SO ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE BUSINESS KNOWN AS ENCORE? LOCATED AT 11 3 2 7 READER ROAD, SUITE ONE 20? YES.
I AM UM, DID YOU REVIEW THE APPLICATION FOR ENCORE'S DANCEHALL LATE HOURS PERMIT? YES, I DID.
TURNING TO TAB ONE IN YOUR BINDER, CAN YOU BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE APPLICANT'S APPLICATION HISTORY ON MAY 29TH? THE NEW DANCEHALL LA UH, LATE HOURS APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED.
WE RECEIVED AN, UH, UPDATED DANCEHALL APPLICATION WITH, UH, THE HOURS OF OPERATION, UH, 6 28.
UH, WE RECEIVED THE, UH, DALLAS ZONING SURVEY, UH, WHICH WAS AN INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH, UM, AND JULY ONE WE RECEIVED THE CITY OF DATA LAND SURVEY ON JULY 9TH.
THE DALLAS LICENSEE, UH, SORRY, THE DANCE HALL LICENSE WAS APPROVED AND THE LATE HOURS WAS DENIED.
IS THIS THE APPLICATION THAT YOU REVIEWED? YES, IT IS.
UM, AND WHY WERE THEY DENIED THE LATE HOURS PERMIT? LATE HOURS WERE DENIED.
UH, ONLY 'CAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL MATTER.
SO TURNING TO TAB TWO, LOOKING AT THE SECOND PAGE, UH, DOES THIS SHOW WHERE THE RESIDENT, WHERE THE RESIDENTIAL USE IS COMPARED TO THE, THE CLUB? YES, THERE IS, THERE'S A MAP THERE THAT, UH, WITH A CIRCLE ON THERE, A RADIUS CIRCLE, SHORT AND, AND THE RE AND IS IT MARKED TRAILER HOMES? IS THAT THE RESIDENTIAL USE? YES.
MARKED TRAILER HOMES? CORRECT.
AND DOES IT BASICALLY JUST BARELY NIP THE CORNER? IT BARELY NIP THE CORNER.
IS THE DENIAL FOR THIS LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION DISCRETIONARY? NO, IT'S NOT.
DOES THIS DOCUMENT CALLS FOR SERVICE AT THE LOCATION? YES, IT DOES.
IS THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS, UH, UNUSUALLY HIGH FOR A LOCATION IN THIS AREA? NO, IT'S NOT.
UH, BASED ON THE INCIDENT REPORTS, DO YOU BELIEVE THERE'S A PATTERN OF CRIME AT THE LOCATION? NO.
THE, UH, CLUB HAS NOT OPENED YET, SO THERE'S NO DATA AT THIS TIME THAT'LL GIVE DPD ANY CONCERNS? ALRIGHT, SO ASIDE FROM THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION OF BEING WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET, IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON TO DENY THE APPLICANT'S FENCE HALL LAY HOURS PERMIT IT? NO, THERE'S NOT, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS AND I'M NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THE LEGAL ISSUE.
YOU HAVE LIKE A MINUTE AND A HALF THOUGH IF YOU WANT TO ASK HIM ANYTHING.
UM, THEN WE WILL PROCEED WITH, UH, BOARD QUESTIONING OF, UH, THE CITY AND ITS WITNESS, UM, THREE MINUTE ROUND TO BEGIN WITH.
MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO.
UH, I APOLOGIZE, BUT WE'RE HAVING PEOPLE COME AND GO ON OUR SCREEN HERE, SO I CAN'T SEE ALL OF YOU ALL THE TIME.
UM, UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? UH,
[01:10:01]
YES.DETECTIVE MARIO, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
UM, I KNOW YOU SAID THAT THERE'S NO DATA AT THIS TIME, SO IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT RIGHT? TO GIVE, EXPAND ON WHY WE'RE YOU OR YOU DENIED THE CITY OF DALLAS DENIED IT.
BUT IN YOUR OPINION, UM, FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, DO YOU THINK THIS LOCATION BEING OPEN FROM TWO TO FOUR IS GONNA POSE AN ISSUE FOR THE MOBILE OR TRAILER PARK HOME IN THE AREA? UH, THE, UH, THE, UH,
IT'S JUST AN AUTOMATIC DENIAL.
'CAUSE IT'S BEEN
RIGHT NOW THE BUSINESS HASN'T BEEN OPENED, SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT OR, UH, WHAT'S OUT THERE.
ALL I DID WAS GATHER NUMBERS FROM THAT LOCATION AND THE NUMBERS WERE VERY LOW.
UH, THERE WAS REALLY NO, UH, VERY LOW FOR, FOR A BUSINESS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE DON'T FORESEE ANY ISSUES AT THIS TIME OR IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY OR PREDICT WHAT THE FUTURE IS.
UH, THANK YOU MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE, UH, ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? JUMP IN? NO QUESTIONS.
ALRIGHT, LET ME ASK ONE OTHER, UM, BOXWELL WAS OPEN PART THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, A A COUPLE OF HOURS LATER ON AND THERE WAS ACTUALLY NO ISSUES DURING THAT TIME BEFORE THEY WERE BEFORE THE ON EXCHANGE.
MR. PILLA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THREE MINUTES? YES.
I I HAD A FEW QUESTIONS JUST TO UNDERSTAND AND MAKE CON CONFIRM WITH YOU.
THIS LOCATION, UM, IS BASICALLY AN INDUSTRIAL AREA WITH WAREHOUSES AND LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, I GUESS, OFFICES.
IS THAT KIND OF THE, AND ALONG WITH THIS ADULT ENTERTAINMENT, UM, LOCATION THAT'S THERE IN I GUESS A RENTAL UNIT.
ARE THERE ANYTHING ELSE I GUESS, TO KNOW ABOUT THAT WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT? NO, NO, SIR.
THERE'S ACTUALLY JUST LIKE THE MENTIONED BEFORE, COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL AREA, THAT TRAILER PARK IS A DISTANCE AND THERE'S A HIGHWAY RIGHT IN BETWEEN THAT.
SO, UM, THERE'S NO OTHER, ANY OTHER CONCERNS? HAVE YOU EVER VISITED THE ACTUAL TRAILER PARK IN YOUR INVESTIGATION? YES.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT TO US? IS IT, IS IT BASICALLY A LOT OF LONG-TERM RESIDENCE? DID YOU WERE ABLE TO VISIT WITH ANYBODY THERE? DURING THE TIME THAT I WENT BY THERE, THERE WAS, UH, I THINK EVERYBODY WAS, UH, IT, A LOT OF THESE PLACES WERE CLOSED.
SOME OF THESE TRAILER HOMES, EITHER THEY WERE AT WORK.
UH, UM, IT'S ISOLATED LIKE, UH, LIKE THEY WERE MENTIONED BEFORE.
IF YOU WERE TO DRIVE BY THERE, I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD SEE IT.
IT'S PRETTY ISOLATED IN THE AREA, UM, UH, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY.
SO, UM, NO, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T GET TO SPEAK TO ANYBODY, ANY RESIDENTS OUT THERE.
AND IF YOU RECALL, COULD YOU HEAR THE HIGHWAY, UM, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY KIND OF CONSTRUCTION OR ANYTHING GOING ON, BUT WHAT WAS THE MOST PREDOMINANT NOISE THAT YOU HEARD ON YOUR PREDOMINANT NOISE WOULD BE THE HIGHWAY.
AND IS THERE ANY KIND OF SOUND BARRIER, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WITH HIGHWAYS OR THE TOLLWAY AS THEY BUILD, WAS THERE ANY SOUND BARRIER RELATED OR NEXT TO THAT MOBILE HOME PLACE? NO, SIR.
UH, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE, UH, ANY QUESTIONS? YEAH, I WANNA GET INTO THE WEEDS WITH VERBS, UM, WITH OUR COUNCIL.
UM, IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU, UM, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? UH, I DON'T KNOW IF I WANNA ADDRESS TO OUR STAFF COUNCIL OR TO GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE CITY.
IF I ASK RIGHT, RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN ADDRESS, UH, QUESTIONS TO THE CITY.
THEN I'LL MR. WILKINS OR, UH, THE DETECTIVE? UH, I HAVE NO QUESTIONS FOR THE DETECTIVE, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET INTO, MAYBE I'LL SAVE IT AS A POINT OF ORDER FOR LATER.
I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR THE DETECTIVE, AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, SIR.
SO THE, THE CRIME NUMBERS THAT WE SAW, FOR BETTER USE OF WORDS, DO THOSE INCLUDE BUCK WILD ALSO? SO BUCK WILD IS WITHIN, IT'S, IT'S ONE BIG BUILDING.
UH, I TOOK THE NUMBERS THAT WERE EXISTED FROM BUCK WILD AND THAT AREA, BUT THE NUMBERS SHOW THAT THEY'RE REALLY LOW, VERY LOW.
UH, AS WE MENTIONED BEFORE, UH, WHAT
SO THERE'S NO CONCERN OF THAT.
[01:15:01]
TIME AND YOUR ANSWER, SIR.UH, MR. BERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
UH, SO WE CAN GO THROUGH QUICKLY, UM, FOR A TWO MINUTE ROUND IN CASE ANYBODY HAS ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
UH, VICE CHAIR, NO QUESTIONS CHAIR.
MR. JEFFERSON? NO, NO QUESTIONS.
MR. HAYES? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
CHAIR, MR. QUINT? NO QUESTIONS.
UM, AND ACTUALLY I DO JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION AND THAT IS, UH, DETECTIVE, IS MY UNDERSTANDING CORRECT THAT ON THE, WHAT THE APPELLANT REFERRED TO AS THE SECOND ISSUE, THE QUESTION OF WHETHER WE GRANT THEM AN EXEMPTION FROM THIS DECISION, YOU WOULD HAVE NO CONCERNS ABOUT US GRANTING AN EXEMPTION.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO YOU WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM, YOU WOULD'VE APPROVED THE PERMIT IF YOU COULD HAVE, THERE IS NO DATA TO SHOW THAT THERE, THERE, THERE IS AN ISSUE OR THERE IS TO BE AN ISSUE, UH, THAT BEEN HANDLING EVERYTHING PRETTY WELL OUT THERE.
AND, AND THE APPELLANTS OTHER BUSINESSES DON'T GIVE YOU ANY CAUSE FOR CONCERN RIGHT NOW, CURRENTLY? NO.
UM, AT THIS TIME WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF RECESS BEFORE WE GET TO CLOSING STATEMENTS, UM, AND MOTIONS.
AND THE TIME IS CURRENTLY ACCURATE, LET'S SAY 9 56.
UH, JUST WANTED TO LET THE, UH, EVERYONE ON CAMERA KNOW THAT WE ARE STILL, THAT THEY TOOK TURN, YOU KNOW, I GUESS STATING THAT NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS HEARING JUST BECAUSE WE ARE GETTING SOME CLARIFICATION FROM OUR BOARD COUNCIL REGARDING WHAT ISSUES WE CAN AND CANNOT ADDRESS MOVING FORWARD BEFORE MAKING THE DECISION.
I DO APOLOGIZE FOR THE WAIT, BUT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY IS CLEAR REGARDING OUR ABILITY AND WHAT WE CAN AND CANNOT DECIDE TODAY.
SO THERE'S NO ESTIMATED TIME FOR WHEN WE WILL BE BACK.
UM, THE BOARD, UM, COUNSEL HAS JUST TOLD ME THAT SHE NEEDS SOME TIME, UM, BUT WE ARE NOT SURE WHAT, UM, HOW THE AMOUNT OF TIME, SO WE WILL COME BACK AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, CORRECT.
SO, UM, DURING OUR RECESS, WE TIME WE'RE BACK FROM RECESS AND THE TIME IS 10 25.
UH, WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF AN EXTENDED RECESS, UM, JUST TO CLARIFY SOME THINGS.
SO AS A POINT OF ORDER PRIOR TO THE CLOSING STATEMENTS, I WOULD LIKE, UM, TO ASK OUR BOARD COUNCIL ONE MORE TIME, JUST TO BE EXTREMELY CLEAR AND TRANSPARENT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS HEARING.
ARE WE ALLOWED, UH, BEFORE WE DO MAKE A DECISION TO ENTERTAIN? UM, I GUESS WHAT, WHAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP THIS TODAY, WHETHER THE CHIEF OF POLICE AIRED ERRONEOUSLY WITH
UM, AND AFTER FURTHER REVIEW IN READING OF THE CODE, BECAUSE THIS IS A DISPUTE EFFECT, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE, THIS BOARD CAN HEAR.
AND BECAUSE, UM, THE LETTER REQUESTING THE APPEAL STATED THAT IT'S REQUESTING AN APPEAL OF THE DECISION AND SEEKING AN APPEALING ALLOCATION EXEMPTION FOR FROM THE CRIMINAL LICENSE AND APPEAL BOARD.
SO THEREFORE YOU CAN DISCUSS WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT THE, YOU CAN, YOU CAN DISCUSS WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT'S A THOUSAND FEET, THE MEASUREMENT, OR YOU CAN DIS UH, OR YOU COULD HAVE DISCUSSION IF WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THE PROPERTY LINE WAS DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE AS DEFINED IN CHAPTER 40.
ONE OF THIS CODE, WHICH STATES RESIDENTIAL USE IS A SINGLE FAMILY DUPLEX, MULTI-FAMILY OR MOBILE HOME PARK, MOBILE HOME SUBDIVISION IN CAMPGROUND USED AS DEFINED IN THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AS AMENDED.
FURTHERMORE, SECTION 14 DASH 3.1 SAYS
[01:20:01]
IT HAS TO BE A LOT DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE AS DIVIDED IN CHAPTER 41 A OF THIS CODE WHETHER SUCH USE IS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OR NOT.SO WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A CO OR NOT, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ILLEGAL OR NOT, IT'S JUST WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT THIS, THE LOT IS DE DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE IS WHAT THE QUESTION SHOULD BE REVOLVED AROUND.
AND THAT WOULD CHANGE SO MANY OF OUR QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD.
UM, WE WOULD'VE, YOU KNOW, ASKED SURE.
SO MY QUESTION NOW IS TO THE APPELLANT AND CITY OF DALLAS, ARE YOU PREPARED IF, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE SCOPE HAS NOW CHANGED, ARE YOU PREPARED TO ARGUE ON THOSE, UM, ON THOSE NEW GROUNDS? WELL, I THINK THAT, UM, APPELLANT IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, UH, WE CONFERRED DURING THE BREAK AND I THINK THAT WE'VE, UH, REACHED A, UH, COMPROMISE.
WANNA ASK THE BOARD ABOUT THAT WE WOULD PROCEED FORWARD TODAY ON THE LOCATIONAL EXEMPT, THE ONE YEAR LOCATIONAL EXEMPTION, AND THAT WE WOULD ASK FOR A RESET FOR THE OTHER ISSUE, UH, FOR THE, THE NEXT, THE NEXT SCHEDULED P LAB HEARING IS, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
WE WE'RE, WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT.
UM, BOARD COUNCIL, ARE WE ALLOWED TO GIVE AN EXEMPTION WHEN WE'RE REALLY DEALING WITH A A TWO ISSUES OR WOULD IT BE A MOMENT TO DISCUSS OR WOULD IT BE BEST THAT WE ADDRESS IT ALL IN AN UH, IN A SECOND HERE? UH, I'M GONNA NEED A FEW MINUTES TO THINK ABOUT THAT QUESTION.
SO YEAH, I'M NOT POINT ORDER, WE'RE NOT IN RECESS.
SO ARE WHATEVER'S BEING SAID, ARE WE NOT ENTITLED TO HEAR IT? VICE CHAIR? SORRY, MR. HAYES, CAN YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION? I SAID WE ARE NOT IN RECESS, BUT THERE IS SOME DISCUSSION GOING ON IN YOUR ROOM.
I WOULD THINK WE WOULD BE ENTITLED TO HEAR THAT DISCUSSION.
UM, WELL THE CITY COUNCIL, I MEAN THE BOARD COUNCIL NEEDED TO CONFER PRIVATELY WITH, UM, WITH THE REST OF THE COUNSEL, UM, IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE QUESTION THAT I HAD.
UM, BECAUSE THE, BECAUSE WHAT, WHAT WHAT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, I GUESS IS WE ADDRESS THE EXEMPTION AND THEN WE COME BACK TO A SECOND HEARING AND ADDRESS WHETHER THE CHIEF OF POLICE ERRED ERRONEOUSLY.
SO MY QUESTION IS, DO WE HAVE, CAN WE EVEN GRANT AN EXEMPTION AT THIS MOMENT? UM, OR SHOULD WE JUST COME BACK AND ADDRESS THE SECOND ISSUE AND THE FIRST ISSUE ALTOGETHER? I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT IF THEY'RE DISCUSSING YOUR QUESTION, ARE WE NOT ENTITLED TO HEAR THE DISCUSSION? UH, THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR THE, FOR THE BOARD COUNCIL.
NO, I, THAT WAS A ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE WITH JUST THE ATTORNEYS TO COME UP WITH A, AN ANSWER TO PROVIDE YOU.
SO THE, THOSE DISCUSSIONS WOULD BE PROVIDED OFFLINE.
BUT I THINK, UM, THAT IT'S ALL ONE CASE.
SO WE CAN'T APPROVE SOMETHING THEN DENY SOMETHING.
SO WE EITHER MOVE FORWARD TODAY OR YOU CAN FOLD IT.
UM, BUT IF YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY APPROVING THE EXEMPTION, THEN YOU ARE ACQUIESCING SAYING THAT THE CHIEF OF POLICE DID NOT AIR AND THAT IT WAS LOCATED WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A LOT DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USES.
SO THEN THE SECOND APPEAL WOULDN'T BE IN ORDER TO COME BACK TO, TO FURTHER ARGUE THAT APPEAL.
[01:25:01]
DECISIONS OR WE RESET, CORRECT? CORRECT.I HAVE A LITTLE MORE CLARIFICATION.
SO THE, THE APPELLATE'S POSITION IS THAT THIS, UM, ORDINANCE DOES NOT APPLY BECAUSE THE, THEY DIDN'T, THE TRAILER PARK DIDN'T HAVE A CO SO ARE WE BEING ASKED TO NOT CONSIDER THAT PART OF IT OR TO CONSIDER IT? YOU'RE, WHAT YOU NEED TO BE CONSIDERING IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT THE LOT IS DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USES, WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A CO THAT THAT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT SAYS IN THE CODE WHETHER SUCH USES WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OR NOT.
SO EVEN IF IT WASN'T IN THE CITY LIMITS, THAT USE WOULDN'T NEED A CO.
SO IT BECOMES IRRELEVANT WHETHER OR NOT A CO IS REQUIRED OR NOT.
IT'S JUST WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT THE AREA IS DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
SO IN ESSENCE, YOU'RE ASKING US JUST TO GO BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW ITSELF, NO.
EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, CORRECT? I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.
NO, I THINK IN INITIALLY WE WERE TOLD THAT THIS, WE SHOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER THE FACT THAT, UM, THE CHIEF OF POLICE AIRED ERRONEOUSLY BECAUSE THAT'S, THIS IS NOT THE PROPER FORUM.
WHAT WE ARE HEARING NOW IS THIS IS THE PROPER FORUM AND SO WE SHOULD ADDRESS THAT.
BUT MY ISSUE IS IF I WOULD'VE, IF I, AND I'M SURE THE REST OF THE BOARD WOULD'VE KNOWN THIS IS THE PROPER FORUM, OUR QUESTIONING WOULD'VE BEEN DIFFERENT, CORRECT? I MEAN, WE WOULD'VE ASKED MORE QUESTIONS ON THAT.
AND SO WE HA WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION AS A BOARD WHETHER WE'RE READY TO ENTERTAIN THIS.
UM, BUT ALSO, UM, WE NEED TO KNOW THAT THE CITY IS OKAY WITH US ENTERTAINING THIS AND THE APPELLANT IS OKAY WITH US ENTERTAINING THIS.
UM, AND WE CAN ASK MORE QUESTIONS IF WE'D LIKE.
UM, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE, UH, I'VE BEEN TOLD WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO ON A NEW, UH, GIVE ANYBODY ANY ADDITIONAL TIME.
IT COULD JUST BE BOARD QUESTIONS.
MAY I INTERJECT A PROPOSAL? THE, THE APPELLANT TO MAKE THIS EASY FOR EVERYONE, THE APPELLANT WOULD BE WILLING TO CONTINUE THE ENTIRE HEARING IF WE CAN GET IT PROMPTLY SET.
WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND IF WE NEED TO COME BACK, THEN THE CITY ATTORNEY CAN BE ADEQUATELY PREPARED TO, TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES AND WE'LL, WE'LL WAIT IF WE CAN GET IT SET, YOU KNOW, IN 30 DAYS.
UM, JUST 'CAUSE MY CLIENT WANTS TO START WORKING ON THIS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT HE CAN'T UNTIL HE, BUT HE'S WILLING TO GO AHEAD AND SAY YES.
WE'LL, WE'LL AGREE TO CONTINUE IT IF YOU CAN AGREE TO SET IT PROPERLY.
AND, AND I KNOW SOMETIMES YOU SCHEDULE, UH, UH, MEETINGS MORE FREQUENTLY THAN EVERY 30 DAYS.
SO IF YOU SCHEDULE IT SOONER THAN THAT, I I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS.
UH, IS THE CITY
FIGURING OUT, WE JUST SCHEDULE RIGHT NOW.
THIS WHAT I HEAR, LIKE LETTER
UH, DOES ANYBODY, UH, WANNA HAVE A DISCUSSION ON WHETHER WE SHOULD RESET THIS, UM, OR NOT? 'CAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE, UH, BOTH APPELLANT AND THE CITY IS, IS NOT PREPARED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, UM, NOVEMBER 7TH IS MIDDLE DATE WITH THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE NEW EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE DO HAVE TO ADDRESS TODAY, TORRES? UM, IF I MAY, YES, SIR.
UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF THE PARTIES ARE WANTING TO, TO CONTINUE THIS HEARING, THAT WE, UH, ACCEPT THAT MOVE FORWARD AND ALLOW FOR THE MOVE ON TO THE SECOND APPEAL.
AND IT IS POSSIBLE, AS IN ANY TYPE OF CONTINUANCE WHEN PARTIES ARE ABLE TO GET TOGETHER, UH, NOW THAT THEY'VE HEARD EACH OTHER'S SIDE AND, AND HEARD THE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD, IT MAY ACTUALLY SPUR THEM TO GET SOMETHING RESOLVED OUTSIDE OF THIS.
AND I THINK IF ANY TIME PARTIES ARE WANTING TO DO THAT, UM, IT ALLOWS FOR EFFICIENCY OF TIME OF THE BOARD AS WELL AS, UH, FOR THE PARTIES TO GET SOMETHING RESOLVED OUTSIDE THIS FORMAL, UM, REVIEW AND APPEAL BOARD, UH, PROCESS.
[01:30:01]
THANK YOU MR. PIA.WOULD UM, ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING BEFORE WE HEAR A MOTION FROM THE BOARD TO RESET THIS HEARING? I WOULD, YES, MR. QUINT.
SO I SECOND, UH, MR. GIA SAYING, YOU KNOW, THIS MAY GIVE THE TWO PARTIES IMPETUS TO SAY LET'S FIGURE THIS OUT BETWEEN US AND, AND GET MOVING FORWARD VERSUS COMING BACK BEFORE US AND POTENTIALLY, UM, NOT GETTING THE OUTCOME THAT THEY WANT.
UH, WE MAY HAVE TO HAVE YOU, MR. CILLO MAKE A FORMAL MOTION TO RESET THIS.
IT WOULDN'T BE TO MOVE TO HOLD THIS MATTER, UM, UNTIL NOVEMBER 7TH.
SO I'D MAKE A FORMAL MOTION, UH, TO HOLD THIS MATTER AND CONTINUE THIS MATTER UNTIL A DATE FOUND BY CITY SECRETARY AT THE MOMENT, WE HAVE A NOVEMBER 7TH DATE OR WHATEVER DATE IS, UH, ABLE TO BE TO, TO RE HAVE A QUORUM, UM, CONTINUE THIS MATTER IF WE NEED TO.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND ON THE MOTION? SECOND.
UM, SO AT THIS TIME OR AT THIS TIME, UM, EVERYBODY IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
SORRY, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.
DOES ANYBODY WOULD LIKE, WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION? I THINK WE'VE KIND OF ALREADY DONE THAT, BUT WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO FORMALLY SPEAK ON THE MOTION? OKAY.
WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? GREAT.
UM, LET'S HAVE A VOTE ON THE MOTION IF YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF TO HOLD THE MATTER UNTIL, UNTIL NOVEMBER 7TH.
UH, ANY ANYONE AGAINST THE MOTION? OKAY.
THE MOTION PASSES BY UNANIMOUS VOTE.
SO WE WILL BE, UM, HEARING THIS POTENTIALLY ON NOVEMBER.
WE WILL HAVE A VERY, VERY BRIEF RECESS SO THAT WE HAVE, UM, WE CAN HAVE THE NEW APPELLANT.
WE'LL BE BACK AT 10 42, RIGHT? UH, WE ARE BACK ON THE RECORD AT 9 44.
10:44 AM UH, AND NOW READY TO GO TO, ON THE RECORD FOR THE SECOND APPEAL HEARING OF THE DEPARTMENT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD AT NOT AT 10 44.
DO WE NEED TO DO A NEW ROLL CALL? E EVERY, ALL THE SAME PEOPLE ARE STILL PRESENT? MM-HMM.
UH, AND OBVIOUSLY I HAVE RETURNED.
SO THE NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS IS THE APPEAL REQUEST OF BID, YOUR CAFE LLC, APPEALING DENIAL OF THE DANCE HALL, LATE HOURS PERMIT UNDER SECTION 14 DASH 3.1 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODES.
BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPELLANT.
UH, THE WITNESS HAS ALREADY BEEN SWORN IN.
UM, AND, UH, I APOLOGIZE, MR. ZULIAN, I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO MISPRONOUNCE YOUR NAME.
IT'S, UH, ZULIAN, ZIAN ZULIAN.
YES, I KNOW IT IS A VERY HARD LAST NAME.
UH, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU ANTICIPATE NEEDING TO PRESENT YOUR CASE? UH, PROBABLY I NEED ABOUT LIKE 10 MINUTES.
UM, AND MR. ZIAN, UH, I HAVE ONE, UH, DOCUMENT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD? UH, YES, YOUR HONOR.
AND, UH, MR. WILKINS, I HAVE ONE DOCUMENT FOR THE CITY THAT'S COMING UP.
IS THAT YOUR YES, IT'S OUR BINDER SUBMISSION.
UH, THOSE HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE BY THE BOARD.
AND, UH, MS. CARLISLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE READ THE RELEVANT
IF THIS BOARD FINDS THE FOLLOWING, ONE, THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED DANCE HALL WILL NOT HAVE
[01:35:01]
A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT FROM NEARBY PROPERTY OR BE CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY OF OR WELFARE.TWO, THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED DANCE HALL WILL NOT DOWNGRADE THE PROPERTY VALUE OR QUALITY OF LIFE IN ANY ADJACENT AREA OR ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OR URBAN LIGHT.
THREE, THE LOCATION OF A PROPOSED DANCE HALL OPERATING UNDER LIGHT HOURS PERMIT IN THE AREA, AREA WILL NOT BE CONTRARY TO ANY PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OR INTERFERE WITH ANY EFFORTS OF URBAN RENEWAL OR RESTORATION.
AND FOUR, ALL OTHER APPLICABLE PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER 14 WILL BE OBSERVED.
IF THIS WORK BINDS FROM THE CONTRARY TO ANY ONE OF THE PREVIOUS STATEMENTS, THEN THIS BOARD MAY AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
AND, UH, THEN WE WILL GO AHEAD, UM, WITH OPENING STATEMENTS.
MR. ZARIAN, DO YOU HAVE WANT TO MAKE A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENT? YES.
AND, UH, THE MEASUREMENT THAT MR. SCOTT HALMAN, I GUESS, UH, HE DID, I BELIEVE THAT IS AN INCORRECT, UH, MEASUREMENT BECAUSE, UH, MY BUSINESS, IT'S DEFINITELY, UH, ABOUT THOU 1000 AND HUNDRED FEET AWAY FROM THE RESIDENTIAL BOUNDARY BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, MY BUSINESS, AS YOU SEE IT ON, UH, THE MAP THAT I SENT EVERYBODY, IT IS, UH, YOU KNOW, 1,100 FEET AWAY FROM A RESIDENTIAL BOUNDARY.
UH, I BELIEVE THE MEASUREMENT WAS IN INCORRECT AND SHOULD BE ADDRESSED THAT.
AND, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, EXPAND MY BUSINESS TILL 4:00 AM WHICH IS I APPLIED, BUT UNFORTUNATELY GOT DECLINED BY, UH, CHIEF OF POLICE BECAUSE, UH, IT SAYS THAT MY BUSINESS IS, UH, YOU KNOW, NOT, UH, WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET AWAY FROM A, UH, RESIDENTIAL BOUNDARY.
UH, MR. WILKINS, DO YOU HAVE A BRIEF OPENING? UH, WELL, THE ONLY EVIDENCE THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE IS THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION IS JUST THE SURVEY THAT'S SUBMITTED ON, IT'S ON THE VERY LAST PAGE OF, OF OUR EVIDENCE BINDER.
UM, OTHER THAN THAT, I'M, I'M GOING TO CALL DETECTIVE SONJA HAYNES AT, AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME, AND SHE'S GONNA PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF, FRANKLY, VERY, VERY LOW CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IN THE AREA THAT'S, UH, OR AT THE LOCATION AT, AND, UH, THAT, THAT'S ALL WE'RE GONNA HAVE.
UH, SO WE CAN NOW PROCEED WITH THE, UH, PRESENTATIONS.
MR. UH, ZIAN, IF YOU'D LIKE TO PROCEED, YOU HAVE, UH, 10 MINUTES? YES.
UH, AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN, UH, I, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS BUSINESS FOR ALMOST, UH, UH, I WOULD SAY ABOUT LIKE 12 YEARS OF MY LIFE.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES IN PREVIOUS BUSINESSES THAT I HAD.
UM, YOU KNOW, UM, ALSO I HAVE LIKE A VERY HIGH SECURITY AT THE LOCATIONS THAT I HAD.
UM, I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS, UH, UH, THE YORK CAFE LLC FOR ALMOST, UH, TWO YEARS.
'CAUSE I GOT MY, UH, CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY ON, UH, UH, FEBRUARY 14TH, 2000, UH, 22.
UH, I'VE BEEN, I'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS, UM, NEVER HAD ANY 9 1 1 CALLS, NEVER HAD ANY CRIME CALLS, NEVER HAD ANY, UH, ISSUES, FIGHTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
UH, AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE, UH, UH, UH, YOU GUYS TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION, UH, AND DO THEIR MEASUREMENT, UH, CORRECTLY BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, UH, WHERE THEY DID THE MEASUREMENT, IT'S NOT WHERE THE DANCE IS CONDUCT.
MY BUSINESS IS ALL THE WAY BACK INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER, WHICH IS MR. WILLIAM.
MR. DAVID KNOWS, UH, IT'S BEEN THERE BEFORE.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO BASICALLY AS THE ORDINANCE SAYS IS WHERE DANCE IS CONDUCT, UM, MR. HARMON, SCOTT HARMON, HE DID A MEASUREMENT FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOPPING CENTER, WHICH IS, THAT'S GONNA BE 872 FEET AWAY, BUT THAT'S NOT MY BUSINESS.
MY BUSINESS IS ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE SHOPPING CENTER, WHICH IS, UH, IS 1,100 FEET AWAY FROM A RESIDENTIAL BOUNDARY.
IS THAT, UH, ARE YOU FINISHED? YES, SIR.
UM, MR. WILKINS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT? SURE.
LE LEAVING ASIDE FOR THE MOMENT, THE, THE, THE DISTANCE FROM THE APARTMENTS, LEMME JUST ASK YOU, YOU MAINTAINED A, YOU, YOU MAINTAINED SECURITY AT YOUR LOCATION, RIGHT? YES, ACTUALLY, I DO HAVE A VERY, VERY GOOD
[01:40:01]
SECURITY, UH, THIRD COMPANY THAT I WORK WITH.UH, I'M, I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN THAT MR. DAVID, UH, YES.
AND, UM, UH, ARE YOU AWARE OF A LOT OF POLICE CALLS THAT HAVE BEEN, THAT HAVE BEEN GENERATED BY YOUR BUSINESS OR NO, SIR.
I NEVER HAD ANY CRIME OR NE LIKE I NEVER HAD ANY, LIKE, UH, ANY 9 1 1 CALLS OR, UH, POLICE THAT SHOW UP IN MY BUSINESS WITHIN TWO YEARS.
HAVE YOU HAD, UH, ANY COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS ABOUT NOISE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? WELL, UH, I NEVER HAD ANY COMPLAINTS BECAUSE, UH, UH, WHERE DANCE IS CONDUCT AND MY BUSINESS IS, UH, A SOUNDPROOF WALLS, BASICALLY, MY WALLS ARE ALL SOUNDPROOF AND THERE IS NO WAY THE SOUNDS IS GONNA BE GOING OUT OF THE, UM, UM, THE ESTABLISHMENT UNLESS WE, IF THE, THE DOOR IS OPEN, WHICH IS USUALLY I CLOSE THE DOOR.
AND, AND THEN YOUR DEALINGS WITH THE CITY, PRETTY MUCH, WE, WE JUST ASKED YOU TO COMPLY WITH THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT ORDINANCE, RIGHT? YES.
UH, WE WILL NOW GO THROUGH COUNSEL, UH, THE, UH, BOARD MEMBERS FOR THREE MINUTES OF QUESTIONING, BEGINNING WITH, UH, MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLATE? I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES.
UM, I MEAN, UM, MR. IAN, CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT, UH, THE, THE LOUNGE IN AND OF ITSELF? UM, WHAT ARE THE TIMES OF OPERATION RIGHT NOW? YES, BASICALLY, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A PROMOTER, UM, UH, REGISTRATION, UM, THAT, UH, BASICALLY I HAVE A PROMOTER THAT THEY, THEY DO, UH, UH, PROMOTE MY BUSINESS FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, LIKE AN, UH, UM, DANCE DANCE HALL.
UH, WE PLAY ALL LIKE ELECTRONIC DANCE MUSIC, UH, WHICH IS WITH HOUSE AND TECHNO MUSIC.
UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE I DO HAVE A COVER CHARGE.
UH, WE, WE ONLY CHARGE COVER, UH, TO GET IN.
AND ALSO WE HAVE REFRESHMENT, WHICH IS WATER, SODAS, YOU KNOW, JUICES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
THAT'S BASICALLY, UH, MY BUSINESS IS OPERATING RIGHT NOW.
AND RIGHT NOW IT'S OPEN ONLY UNTIL 2:00 AM? YES, MA'AM.
HAS IT EVER BEEN OPEN FROM TWO TO FOUR? YES, MA'AM.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME IT WAS OPEN FROM TWO TO FOUR? UH, IT WAS RIGHT BEFORE WHEN I GET MY DANCE HALL LICENSE.
I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN WAS IT? UH, I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR.
SO HOW HAS THIS AFFECTED YOU? UM, FOR A WHOLE YEAR NOT HAVING, UH, IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY, IT, IT REALLY DID AFFECT MY, UH, FINANCIAL AND IT REALLY DID AFFECT MY, UH, UH, CUSTOMER CLIENTS.
UH, BECAUSE, UM, THE REASON THAT I OPENED THIS LOUNGE WAS BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO DO AN AFTER HOURS.
UM, SO UNFORTUNATELY WHEN I GOT MY DANCE LICENSE, WHICH IS, I DIDN'T HAD IT BEFORE, UH, BUT THE CITY OF DALLAS, UM, THEY TOLD ME THAT IF PEOPLE ARE EVEN STANDING THERE, YOU SHOULD, UH, GET A DANCE LICENSE.
SO WHEN I APPLIED FOR A DANCE LICENSE, UH, THEN I, YOU KNOW, WHEN I GOT APPROVED FOR THE DANCE LICENSE, UH, THEN I FIND OUT THAT I, I CANNOT BE OPEN AFTER 2:00 AM ANYMORE.
AND PRIOR TO 2:00 AM YOU DO SERVE ALCOHOL, CORRECT? NO, MA'AM, I DON'T HAVE A LIQUOR LICENSE.
UM, THAT'S ALL MY QUESTIONS FOR NOW.
LAST CHAIR, UH, MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
MR. CILLA, UH, WE, WE CANNOT HEAR YOU, SIR.
UM, MR. ZIAN, MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU RELATED TO THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL SPACE.
SO YOU SAY THAT THE MEASUREMENT IS OFF, I SEE WHERE YOU'RE, ARE THOSE OTHER UNITS NEXT TO YOU, ARE THOSE SUITES THAT ARE LEASED TO OTHER BUSINESSES? YES, SIR.
SO WHERE YOU'RE MEASURING IS EXACT, ACTUALLY WHERE YOU CONDUCT YOUR BUSINESS? YES, SIR.
AND YOU DON'T OWN ANY OF THOSE OTHER SUITES? I DON'T.
WHAT TIME DO YOU, DO YOU OPEN YOUR DOORS? UH, WE USUALLY OPEN LIKE AT 9:00 PM AND ARE YOU OPEN SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, OR ONLY CERTAIN DAYS? NO, SIR.
I'M ONLY OPEN FRIDAY AND SATURDAYS.
AND SOMETIMES IF THERE IS ANY SPECIAL EVENTS GOING ON, UH,
[01:45:01]
I WILL BE OPEN ON, UH, SUNDAY AS WELL.BUT O ONLY MAYBE, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR A FEW HOLIDAYS, WHICH IS MEMORIAL WEEKENDS OR FOURTH OF JULYS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
OTHER THAN THAT, I'M ONLY OPEN, UH, FRIDAY AND SATURDAY.
IS THERE A-B-Y-O-D POL BYOB POLICY? BRING YOUR OWN BOTTLE, BRING YOUR OWN LIQUOR.
SO NO ONE BRINGS ANY ALCOHOL IN, EVEN IF YOU DON'T, ON A REGULAR HOURS? ON A REGULAR HOURS.
UH, I AM BYOB FOR REGULAR HOURS FROM NINE 9:00 PM TO 2:00 AM SO 9:00 PM TO 2:00 PM 2:00 AM ANYBODY CAN BRING IN WHATEVER ALCOHOL THEY HAVE, NOT WHATEVER.
I'M VERY LIKE, UH, BASICALLY, UM, I, I DON'T ALLOW, I, I, I'M VERY LIMITED ON THAT.
UH, WE ONLY ALLOW LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, SOFT LIQUORS LIKE BEER, AND WE ONLY ALLOW A, UH, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY I HAVE A, YOU KNOW, LIKE LIMITED MAYBE ONLY ONE BOTTLE OF, UH, HOT ALCOHOL FOR A GROUP OF 10 PEOPLE.
OTHER THAN THAT, WE, I, I DON'T ALLOW THEM TO BRING THEM IN.
SO YOUR SECURITY THAT THERE, CAN YOU GIVE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON HOW MANY YES.
UH, SERVE AS YOUR SECURITY? YES, ACTUALLY, LIKE I'VE, I'VE WORKED WITH A, UH, THIRD COMPANY, WHICH IS CALLED, UH, CO UH, PROTECTION SERVICES.
UH, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM FOR ALMOST, UM, UH, ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF RIGHT NOW.
AND, UH, BASICALLY AT THE DOOR I HAVE SECURITIES.
I HAVE LIKE, UH, UH, THREE, UH, SECURITY GUARD AT THE DOOR.
UH, EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT ENTERED MY ESTABLISHMENT GOTTA BE 21.
I DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY UNDER AGE IN, IN MY ESTABLISHMENT AND ALSO MY SECURITY WILL PAT DOWN, UH, EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT GOES INSIDE.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, NOBODY CAN BRING ANY, UH, WEAPONS OR ANYTHING THAT CAN, CAN HARM, UH, ANYBODY.
UH, LIKE I SAID, I'VE, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS BUSINESS FOR MANY YEARS, TWO YEARS IN THIS, UH, UM, UH, ADDRESS.
UH, NEVER HAD A SINGLE FIGHT, NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS, NEVER HAD A CRIME CALL, NEVER HAD ANY 9 1 1 CALL, UH, OR ANY, ANY ISSUES THERE BECAUSE I'M VERY SERIOUS ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, PEOPLE'S, UH, SAFETY, UM, IF MY BOUNCERS, THEY'RE BEING LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, TRAINED THAT IF YOU SEE PEOPLE ARE DRUNK OR IF ANYTHING LIKE THAT OR HIGH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEY ARE NOT GONNA ALLOW THE PERSON ENTER THE ESTABLISHMENT.
UH, WHAT'S YOUR TYPICAL CHECK COVER CHARGE? THAT, THAT, THAT'S YOUR TIME.
UH, FOR THIS ROUND, MR. CILLA? UH, IT'S BETWEEN 20 TO $30 PER PERSON.
UM, MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I'M LOOKING AT THE, UH, MAP THAT'S PART OF THE EXHIBIT AND IF THERE'S SOME KIND OF LONG SKINNY STUFF ON THE SOUTHWEST SIDE OF THE CIRCLE, BUT SINCE IT'S NOT HIGHLIGHTED AS A VIOLATION, I ASSUME THAT'S JUST TRUCKS OR SHEDS OR SOMETHING.
COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT IS? UH, CAN YOU TELL ME EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE LOOKING AT, SIR? I'M LOOKING USING THE EXISTING CENTER OF THAT CIRCLE.
IF YOU GO TO ABOUT SEVEN 30, THERE'S 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 LONG SKINNY SOMETHINGS.
UH, WELL, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHICH ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THERE IS LIKE EMPTY SPACE OVER THERE.
UH, THERE IS, UH, THERE IS NO, UH, BUS BUSINESSES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
IT IS JUST THE ONLY BUSINESSES THAT IS BETWEEN US.
IT WILL BE A RACETRACK GAS STATION.
UH, THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT IS THERE.
OTHER THAN THAT, THERE IS NO BUSINESS OR, OR, UH, ANYTHING ELSE.
WELL, I, I'LL IS THERE A CAR DEALERSHIP THERE, MR. OLIAN? I'M SORRY? IS THERE A CAR DEALERSHIP NEARBY? A CAR, A CAR DEALERSHIP, RIGHT? I IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
UH, THERE IS TWO OF 'EM ACTUALLY.
UH, ONE OF 'EM IS TOYOTA, UH, OF COWBOYS, WHICH IS, IS, UH, RIGHT ACROSS OF MY BUSINESS, UH, RIGHT NEXT TO, UH, HIGHWAY, UH, 30.
IT IS, UH, RIGHT ON BUCKNER BOULEVARD.
AND, UH, I 30, WHICH IS, IT'S A, UH, IF I'M NOT RUNNING AS A GMC DEALERSHIP, SO, UM, WHICH IS, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT OPERATING AT THE TIME THAT I'M OPEN.
I, I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW I CAN BE ANY MORE CLEAR IN DESCRIBING FIVE LINEAR STRUCTURES AT SEVEN 30 O'CLOCK ON THE EXISTING CIRCLE THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T ADDRESSED.
THAT THAT'S THE CAR, CAR DEALERSHIP, MR. HAYES? OH, I THINK IT'S, IT SHOULD BE A CAR DEALERSHIP MAYBE.
AND IF I EXTEND THE, UM, CIRCLE FURTHER SOUTHWARD, THOSE LOOK LIKE WAREHOUSES OR SOMETHING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF INTERSTATE 30, WHICH WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE AT ALL.
SO YOU ARE STATING, IF I CORRECTLY UNDERSTAND THAT IF THE CENTER OF THAT CIRCLE WERE MOVED TO THE ACTUAL PLACE WHERE YOUR ESTABLISHMENT IS LOCATED,
[01:50:01]
YOU WOULD, THE 872 FEET WOULD THEN BECOME OVER A THOUSAND FEET.IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US? YES, MR. HAYES.
UH, MR. VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
UM, MR. UH, ZOL, UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE, UH, ASKING US TO OVERTURN THE DECISION ON THE BASIS THAT YOU ACTUALLY ARE, YOUR BUSINESS ACTUALLY IS MORE THAN A THOUSAND FEET AWAY, UH, FROM THE RESIDENTIAL LOT.
IF WE DON'T OVERTURN THAT DECISION, ARE YOU, WOULD YOU BE ASKING US ALTERNATIVELY, TO GRANT AN EXEMPTION FOR YOUR BUSINESS? YES, SIR.
UH, WE'LL GO BACK THROUGH FOR A TWO MINUTE ROUND FOR ANYBODY WHO'S ALREADY ASKED QUESTIONS.
UH, MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO.
UH, QUESTION TORRES? NO QUESTIONS, MR. JEFFERSON, ANY MORE QUESTIONS? NO, SIR.
UH, MR. CILLA, ANY MORE QUESTIONS? I DO ACTUALLY, UM, UM, MR. ZOL AND I DO HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING, I'M LOOKING ON YOUR WEBSITE.
THERE'S A JOT FORM ON THERE, AND IT ACTUALLY HAS THE, LOOKS LIKE YOUR TABLE RESERVATION FORM.
AND I'M CONCERNED THAT YOU HAVE ON THERE, STILL ON YOUR WEBSITE, AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU CAN PAY, UM, FRIDAYS AND SATURDAYS, AND YOU ALREADY ADVERTISE 2:00 AM TO 5:00 AM OPEN.
AND THEN YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY LOOKS LIKE, I GUESS YOU HAVE KIND OF A BOTTLE SERVICE OR PRIVATE TABLE THAT YOU CAN PURCHASE.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT FORM ON YOUR WEBSITE AND THE, THE TIMES THAT ARE EXPLAINED ON THERE? YES.
UH, BASICALLY I MADE MY WEBSITE, UM, ABOUT LIKE TWO YEARS AGO.
UH, I, I NEVER USED MY WEBSITE OR IT, IT IS JUST BEEN THERE FOR, UH, LONG TIME AGO, WHICH IS AGAIN, UH, IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS AGO.
AND, UH, NO, I DO NOT HAVE ANY, UM, UH, BOTTLE SERVICE 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE A LIQUOR LICENSE.
AND ALSO, UH, AGAIN, THAT'S FOR A, THE, THE WEBSITE HAS BEEN THERE FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS AND NEVER USED IT.
SO UNFORTUNATELY, I, I COMPLETELY FORGET ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THAT OR JUST TAKING IT OFF.
BUT, BUT IT DOES ACTUALLY SAY, IT ACTUALLY SAYS YOU'RE OPEN 2:00 AM TO 5:00 AM WHEN YOU ACTUALLY SET IT UP CLEARLY, EVEN WITH THIS.
AS, AS, THAT WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE.
AS I SAID, LIKE BEFORE, 'CAUSE I NEVER HAD A DANCE LICENSE BEFORE AND I WAS OPEN, UH, BACK IN, LIKE I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN I OPENED UP THE BUSINESS, I WAS OPEN BECAUSE I NEVER HAD A DANCE LICENSE BEFORE.
THE WEBSITE ACTUALLY SAYS COPYRIGHT 2023.
YOU GOT A CERTIFICATE OF O OCCUPANCY ON FEBRUARY, 2022, AND THEN YOUR TEXAS SECRETARY OF STATE WAS JULY, UH, 2022.
SO WHEN DID YOU ACTUALLY OPEN THE DOORS TO BE A DANCE HALL WITHOUT A DANCE PERMIT, I GUESS? UH, I OPENED THE DOOR ON, UH, A, A AGAIN, AS SOON AS I GOT MY CO O, WHICH IS, UH, IT WAS AR ON OR AROUND, UH, 2000 FEBRUARY, FEBRUARY, 2000, UH, 22.
UH, MR. HAYES? UH, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
UH, MR. VERA, NO QUESTIONS AND I UNDERSTAND, UH, MS. ALA HAS, UH, JOINED THE MEETING.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
AND I HAVE NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
UH, WITH THAT, WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE CITY'S PRESENTATION.
MR. WILKINS, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED FOR, UH, NINE MINUTES THAT YOU HAVE
ALRIGHT, THANK, UH, THANK YOU MR. CHAIR.
UM, THE CITY CALLS DETECTIVE SONJA HAYNES.
UM, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
AND HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? DELS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? WE'RE 16 YEARS.
WHAT CURRENT ARE YOU, WHAT UNIT ARE YOU CURRENTLY WORKING IN? BY LICENSING.
AND, UH, WHAT ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES IN VICE LICENSING? UH, TO RENEW, TO, UH, REVIEW RENEWAL APPLICATIONS, NEW APPLICATIONS, AND TO CHECK THE FEE FOR THE LICENSING,
[01:55:01]
THE LOCATION OF THE BUSINESS.SO LIKE, LIKE DANCE HALL, SOB, LATE HOUR LICENSE.
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE BUSINESS KNOWN AS DDR LOCATED AT 3 6 50 NORTH BUCKNER BOULEVARD, SUITE ONE 10? YES.
AND DID YOU REVIEW THE APPLICATION FOR D D'S DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT? YES.
TURNING TO TAB ONE IN YOUR BINDER, CAN YOU BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE APPLICANT'S APPLICATION HISTORY? UM, YES.
IN MAY OF 2023, WE RECEIVED A NEW APPLICATION FOR THE DANCEHALL AND LATE HOUR PERMIT, UM, IN JUNE OF 2023 AND THE ONE YEAR CLASS, A DANCEHALL LICENSE WAS APPROVED.
UH, AND THEN ALSO IN JUNE OF 2023, THE APPROVAL LETTER WAS SENT OUT TO THE APPLICANT FOR THE DANCE HALL LICENSE.
UH, IN JUNE, THEY ALSO RECEIVED A CERTIFIED LETTER THAT WAS SENT OUT FOR THE DENIAL OF THE LATE HOUR PERMIT FOR THE SAME REASON THAT WE'RE HERE TODAY.
UM, IN JUNE OF 2024, THE RENEWAL APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED FOR THE DANCE HALL AND THE LATE PERMIT AGAIN, UH, JUNE OF 2024, THE LATE THE DANCE HALL LICENSE WAS APPROVED AND THE APPROVAL LETTER WAS SENT OUT.
BUT IN JULY OF 2024, THE, WE SENT OUT A CERTIFIED LETTER FOR THE DENIAL OF THE LATE HOUR PERMIT, AND THEN IT BRINGS US TO THE DAY STATE FOR THE PILA HEARING.
UM, TURNING TO TAB TWO, UH, IS THIS THE APPLICATION FOR THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT THAT YOU REVIEWED? YES.
AND WHY WOULD THEY DENY THE LATE HOURS PERMIT? BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION OF THE BUSINESS RULE WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET RESIDENTIAL ERROR.
AND THAT'S A MANDATORY DECISION ON YOUR PART, RIGHT? YES.
UH, TURNING TO THE VERY LAST PAGE OF THE BINDER, IS THIS THE CITY'S SURVEY? YES, IT IS.
AND DOES IT REPRESENT WHERE THE, THE RESIDENCE IS AND LOCATION TO THE BUSINESS? YES, IT DOES.
IS IT THAT UPPER IT NICKS THE, THE LITTLE BOTTOM CORNER OF THAT WINDSOR STATE DEPARTMENTS.
UM, AND UH, TURNING TO TAB FIVE, IS THIS, UH, CALLS FOR SERVICE YOU'VE GOTTEN AT DVR? UH, YES.
LET'S, LET ME TALK THROUGH THAT.
UM, AND UH, IS THIS, UH, NUMBER OF INCIDENT REPORTS UNUSUALLY HIGH FOR A BUSINESS OF THIS TYPE IN THE AREA? NO.
AND BASED ON THE INCIDENT REPORTS, DO YOU THINK THERE'S A PATTERN OF CRIME AT THE LOCATION? NO, I DON'T.
ASIDE FROM THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION OF BEING WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENCE, IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON TO DENY THE APPLICANT'S DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT? NO.
UH, MR. ZIAN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR, UH, THE CITY OR DETECTIVE HAN? NO, SIR.
AND WE WILL PROCEED WITH BOARD QUESTIONS, BEGINNING WITH, UH, MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO, NO QUESTIONS.
UM, LAST CHAIR, TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES.
UM, DETECTIVES, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ISSUE HERE IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS LOCATION IS OR IS NOT WITHIN A A THOUSAND FEET RADIUS, RIGHT? SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, HOW DOES THE CITY GO ABOUT, UH, MEASURING, BECAUSE THIS KIND OF LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE APPELLANT IS PRESENTING.
SO DO YOU GUYS DO, UM, DO YOU GUYS GO ON SITE, PUT A STAKE DOWN AND THEN MEASURE, OR IS THIS ALL ELECTRONIC? UM, CAN YOU GIVE US INSIGHT ONTO THAT? YOU WANT ME TO FEEL THAT? YES.
WE HAVE A CITY SURVEYOR, SO IT JUST GETS REFERRED OVER TO THE CITY SURVEYOR.
UH, HE'S, HE'S ON THE BOTTOM OF THIS.
DO YOU KNOW HOW HE DOES IT? UH, NO.
UM, SO WE JUST SEND IT OFF TO THE CITY SURVEYOR AND GET BACK WHAT WE GET BACK.
UM, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE MEASUREMENTS BROUGHT, BROUGHT, BROUGHT FORWARD BY THE APPELLANT? WELL, I THINK THAT WE HAVE OUR SURVEY, HE'S, HE'S BROUGHT INTROVERTING EVIDENCE, UM, WITHOUT KNOWING HOW, HOW THESE MEASUREMENTS ARE TAKEN.
I, I, I CAN'T SAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S FOR THE BOARD TO DECIDE.
THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM THE LAST CASE.
THIS IS ACTUALLY A QUESTION OF FACT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT THE EVIDENCE, WE'VE GOT, HE'S GOT THE EVIDENCE, HE'S GOT, HE, HE IS RIGHT THAT HIS SUITE IS OVER HERE ON THIS END OF THE BUILDING.
[02:00:01]
ORDINANCE, UH, I THINK STATES THAT NEEDS TO BE WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF THE FRONT DOOR OF BUSINESS OF BUSINESS.SO IF WE WERE TO MOVE THIS MEASUREMENT ON YOUR MAP, WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? I, I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, I SEE THIS LINE HERE, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S CREATED.
IS THAT JUST A PROGRAM? I MEAN, IT'S, SCOTT HOLT SURVEYED IT, YOU KNOW, UM, WHETHER HE SURVEYED IT FROM THE RIGHT STARTING POINT OR NOT.
I DON'T KNOW IF SCOTT HOLT OR ANOTHER HIRED SURVEYOR GOES OUT AND SURVEYS THIS MAY, MAYBE IT'S NOT WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
DOES THE, UM, DETECTIVE PAYS, HAS THIS HAPPENED BEFORE WHERE SOMEONE COME BACK AND SAYS, HEY, THIS IS INCORRECT MEASUREMENT? NO, NOT SINCE I'VE BEEN IN THE UNIT.
SO THIS IS KIND OF A, SOMETHING, A FIRST IMPRESSION THEN? UM, YES, I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T WITNESSED THAT THIS HAPPENING.
AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE UNIT? I'VE BEEN THERE FOR FOUR MONTHS.
UM, IS OKAY, I'LL SAVE MY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THEM.
UM, AND I APOLOGIZE, I SKIPPED, UH, MS. ALA, UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO, I DON'T HAVE QUESTIONS.
MR. JEFFERSON IS WHAT? IT'S, UH, ACTUALLY, SHE JUST ASKED THE QUESTION THAT I, I HAD, I JUST REALLY WANTED CLARITY ON, UM, THE DISCREPANCY FROM MR. UM, ZARIAN.
AND THEN THE CITY OR, OR THE DETECTIVE IS SAYING, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT CERTAIN.
SO, I MEAN, THAT ALONE LEADS ME TO FEEL LIKE THERE, THERE'S AT LEAST ROOM FOR DISCUSSION OF EXEMPTION.
UH, SO I GUESS ASK THE CITY WHETHER, UM, IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON, AND I THINK YOU'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS, BUT I JUST WANNA BE CONFIRM, CONFIRMING, IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON IF THE DISTANCE WAS ACTUALLY OVER A THOUSAND FEET FROM THE RESIDENCY, A RESIDENCE, UM, RESIDENTIAL AREA, WOULD THE, WOULD WE BE ACTUALLY HEARING THIS APPEAL TODAY? I'M SORRY, THE, IF IT WERE MORE THAN A THOUSAND FEET AWAY, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO GROUNDS FOR DENIAL.
DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, MR. PIA? IT DID.
IS THAT YOUR ONLY QUESTION? IT IS.
UH, MR. HAYES, ANY QUESTIONS? I'VE GOT THE MAP BLOWN UP IN FRONT OF ME AND I WAS DOING SOME SCALING OFF.
UM, MR. ZOL, WHAT PART OF THE BUILDING DO YOU HAVE? MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? UM, I JUST WANNA CONFIRM THAT THE ORDINANCE, WHICH SAYS THE MEASUREMENT TO THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE GOES TO THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY UPON WHICH THE RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY EXISTS, BUT I THINK I HEARD, AND I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM THE CITY SAYING THAT FRONT DOOR WAS THE CRITERION FOR THE BUSINESS ITSELF.
DID I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY? YES.
THE, THE MEASUREMENT IS FROM THE FRONT DOOR OF THE BUSINESS IN QUESTION TO THE BOUNDARY OF THE LOT OF A, OF PROPERTY DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
AND APPROXIMATELY, DO YOU KNOW WHERE WITHIN THAT LONG BUILDING THE DDR CAFE IS LOCATED? IS IT ON THE RIGHT SIDE, LEFT SIDE CENTER? I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? LOOKING AT THE MAP, THE, THE DIOR CAFE IS LOCATED IN A LONG RECTANGULAR BUILDING THAT RUNS EAST AND WEST.
UM, IS IT TOWARDS THE RIGHT SIDE AS I LOOK AT THAT MAP OR IN THE YES, IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS ON, YES.
WELL, BASED ON THAT, I SCALED THIS SUCKER OFF.
I BLEW THE PICTURE WAY UP, AND IT'S WELL OVER A THOUSAND FEET.
MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, IF I MAY PLEASE.
YOU ARE RECOGNIZED THAT THANK YOU.
UM, SECTION 14 DASH 3.1 OF THE LIGHT HOURS PERMIT, SUBSECTION B SAYS,
[02:05:01]
FOR PURPOSES OF SUBSECTION A, WHICH IS THE MEASUREMENT WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A PROPERTY LINE TO, UH, RESIDENTIAL USE MEASUREMENT WILL BE MADE IN A STRAIGHT LINE WITHOUT REGARD TO INTERVENING STRUCTURES OR OBJECTS FROM THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE USED AS A PART OF THE PREMISES WHERE DAN HALL IS CONDUCTED TO THE NEAREST BOUNDARY OF A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT OR PROPERTY LINE OF A LOT DEVOTED TO A RESIDENTIAL USE.SO IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE FRONT DOOR, IT'S THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE THAT IS USED AS PART OF THE PREMISES OF A DANCEHALL.
I AND I'M SORRY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GETTING TO WITNESS MALPRACTICE IN REAL TIME? I, UH,
SO IT'S, YES, IT'S THE NEAREST CORNER OF THE BUILDING.
I JUST SCALED THAT OFF AND IT STILL COMES OUT WELL OVER A THOUSAND FEET.
WE'LL GET TO THAT WHEN WE'RE HAVING BOARD DISCUSSION, I THINK.
UM, YEAH, BUT AGAIN, I WANT TO REITERATE THAT IT'S BASED OFF OF THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY THE CITY AND BY THE APPELLATE, NOT BASED OFF OF YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
SO THAT SHOULDN'T BE A FACT TO CONSIDER BECAUSE WE'RE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, YOU ARE ACTING AS JUDGES.
SO IT'S OF THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO YOU.
SO BOARD MEMBERS SHOULD NOT BE DOING INDEPENDENT RESEARCH.
IS THAT, IS THAT WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING? THAT'S CORRECT.
BUT I DO HAVE A QUE INTERESTING.
I HAVE A QUESTION BECAUSE I'M, IF YOU LOOK AT BUILDING AS, I'M SORRY MS. KYLE, UM, I WILL COME BACK TO YOU IN THE SECOND ROUND, UM, AND, AND RECOGNIZE YOU FOR QUESTIONS AT THAT TIME.
UM, BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE ON MR. UH, QUINT.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? WELL, IIII DO AND I DON'T BECAUSE FROM WHAT? WELL, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED FOR THREE MINUTES TO ASK QUESTIONS OR NOT.
SO MY, MY QUESTION WAS IN, UM, ALL OF THE APPELLATE'S PAPERWORK, EVERYTHING ALWAYS REFERRED TO 36 50 NORTH BUTNER, SUITE ONE 10.
WHY DOES THE CITY'S PAPERWORK NOT REFLECT, UH, CITY'S SURVEY NOT REFLECT THAT? IT'S BECAUSE FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, MEASUREMENTS MUST BE MADE IN A STRAIGHT LINE WITHOUT REGARD TO INTERVENING STRUCTURES OR OBJECTS FROM THE NEAREST ENTRY DOOR IN THE PART OF THE BUILDING USED.
SEE, THIS IS WHY IT'S CONFUSING, UH, HERE.
UH, SO, SO PURPOSES OF SUBSECTION A OF THIS SECTION, MEASUREMENTS MUST BE MADE IN A STRAIGHT LINE WITHOUT REGARD TO INTERVENING STRUCTURES OR OBJECTS FROM THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE USED AS A PART OF THE PREMISES WHERE A DANCE HALL IS CONDUCTED TO THE NEAREST BOUNDARY OF A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT OR PROPERTY LINE OF A LOT DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
SO WHEN THE SURVEYOR WAS SURVEYING IT, HE WAS LOOKING FOR THE, THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE THAT DDR IS IN, AND THEN MEASURING HOW CLOSE IT WAS TO THE BOUNDARY OF THE LOT LINE THAT WAS DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
YOU, YOU, YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
UM, WASN'T THE OUTCOME I WAS LOOKING FOR, SIMPLY BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN UNTIL ONE 10.
UM, MR. VERA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU.
UM, OKAY, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
UH, DETECTIVE, THIS, THIS BUILDING, UM, I, AND I THINK WE COVERED THAT THE APPELLANT'S EXHIBIT ACCURATELY SHOWS WHERE HIS PREMISES IS LOCATED IN, IN THE BUILDING.
UM, THIS IS, THIS IS NOT A LICENSED PABC PREMISES? CORRECT.
SO THERE'S NO, LIKE DEMISE PREMISES FOR PABC PURPOSES, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
IS THE BUILDING, SO WITH, WITH THESE SEPARATE SUITES, IF YOU KNOW, IS THE BUILDING SORT OF, UH, PERMANENTLY SEPARATED INTO THESE DIFFERENT SPACES? IT'S NOT PERMANENTLY SEPARATED.
WHEN I'M OUT THERE, IT'S A KIND OF LIKE WHAT YOU WOULD SEE WITH A NORMAL SHOPPING STRIP.
IT'S ONE WHOLE LONG BUILDING, AND THEN THEY JUST HAVE THE LITTLE INDIVIDUAL DOORS AND THE SUITES.
SO NOTHING IS SEPARATE FROM THE BUILDING ITSELF.
IT'S JUST ONE HOLE SHOCK AND STRIP.
SO THERE'S NOT LIKE PERMANENT WALLS IN BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT SPACES? NO.
UM, IF I'M AN, IF I'M VISUALIZING WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME, CORRECT, I THINK YOU ARE, UM, MI MR. WILKINS, SO, UH, AS I'M, AS I'M READING 14 DASH 3.1 B, AND
[02:10:01]
IT SAYS THAT THE MEASUREMENT WILL BE MADE FROM THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE USED AS A PART OF THE PREMISES WHERE A DANCE HALL IS CONDUCTED AND THERE'S NO PUNCTUATION IN THERE.UM, IT'S YOUR CONTENTION THAT THE USED AS A PART OF THE PREMISES WHERE A DANCE HALL IS CONDUCTED MODIFIES BUILDING OR STRUCTURE AND NOT NEAREST PART.
AND NOW IF THAT DID MODIFY NEAREST PART D, DOES THE CITY DISPUTE, SO LET, LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
DOES THE CITY DISPUTE THE APPELLANT'S MEASUREMENT? NO.
I BELIEVE THAT FROM HIS, FROM THE NEAREST PART OF HIS SUITE, HE'S PROBABLY CORRECT, BUT IT'S MORE THAN A THOUSAND FEET BYTE.
UM, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT DETECTIVE? UH, YES.
I AGREE WITH WHATEVER THE MEASUREMENT IS FROM HIS STORE, BUT I DO STILL AGREE WITH WHATEVER MEASUREMENTS THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE TAKEN AT THAT THE CITY GOES BY WHEN THEY GO OUT TO CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS.
AND THE SURVEYOR THAT'S HIRED FOR THE CITY? YEAH.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE MAP AND IT DOES SHOW THE NEAREST CORNER TO WHERE THE DISTANCE NEEDS TO BE MEASURED.
AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A WHILE IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, THAT'S HOW THE CITY USUALLY DOES THE SURVEYS, RIGHT? JUST BASED ON YES.
UM, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER SITUATIONS LIKE THIS WHERE THE, THE BUS, THE APPLICABLE BUSINESS HAS JUST BEEN ONE PART OF THAT BUILDING AND DO THEY STILL DO THE SURVEY FROM THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING? NO, I'VE NEVER SEEN IT DONE WHERE IT'S JUST FROM THAT ONE PART OF THE BUILDING TO THE NEAREST RESIDENTIAL AREA.
BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN IN THIS UNIT FOR FOUR MONTHS, I CAME FROM NUISANCE ABATEMENT WHERE WE ALSO DID P LABS AT, AND I'VE NEVER SEEN IT DONE ANY WAY DIFFERENT.
SO, AND I WAS IN THAT UNIT FOR FOUR YEARS.
UM, WE WILL GO BACK THROUGH, UM, MS. KYLE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YES.
SO BASED ON THAT, I'M TO UNDERSTAND THAT LIKE, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S, BASED ON THE PARKING SPACES, LIKE AT LEAST 350 FEET BETWEEN HIS, HIS BUILDING, THEN THERE'S A KIDNEY DIALYSIS AND THEN SOME OTHER THINGS IN THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING.
SO NONE OF THAT DISTANCE MATTERS.
LIKE EVEN IF THE BUILDING WAS A THOUSAND FEET LONG, IT WOULD JUST STILL BE MEASURED FROM THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING, NOT FROM THEIR ACTUAL UNIT.
IT'S, THAT'S THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN.
WE CAN ONLY FOLLOW WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS.
UH, VICE CHAIR TOSS, FEW MINUTES OF QUESTION.
UH, MR. JEFFERSON, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
UH, MR. HAYES? NO QUESTIONS OR RESEARCH?
MR. QUINN, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
UH, MS. AY, ANY QUESTIONS? NO, NO QUESTIONS.
UM, JUST ONE QUESTION, DETECTIVE, AGAIN.
UM, WOULD YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS WITH US GRANTING THE EXEMPTION? NO, NOT AT THIS TIME.
BASED OFF OF WHAT'S HAPPENED OUT THERE RECENTLY AND FAR AS THAT, NOTHING THAT I WOULD BE OF CONCERN AT THIS TIME.
AND SO IF YOU COULD HAVE, YOU WOULD HAVE APPROVED THE, UH, THE PERMIT? UH, YES.
UM, WE WILL NOW HEAR CLOSING STATEMENTS AND ARGUMENTS FROM THE PARTY.
UM, MR. ZULIAN, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A BRIEF CLOSING STATEMENT? YES, SIR.
WELL, ACTUALLY AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO, UH, BE CLEAR WITH EVERYBODY.
UH, AS IT SAYS ON THE ORDINANCE, IT SAYS, UH, NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING WHERE DANCE IS CONDUCT.
SO MY QUESTION IS, THE DANCE IS NOT BEING CONDUCTED AT THE EDGE OF THE SHOPPING CENTER AT THE BEGINNING OR FIRST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER.
SO IT IS LIKE, LITERALLY, IT'S ABOUT LIKE 300 FEET DIFFERENCE, UH, BETWEEN,
[02:15:01]
YOU KNOW, MY SUITE AND ALL THE WAY TO THE FIRST, THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOPPING CENTER.SO EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS ON A CITY ORDINANCE, IT SAYS THAT WHERE DANCE IS CONDUCT, AGAIN, WHERE DANCE IS CONDUCT, THE DANCE IS NOT BEEN HAPPENING RIGHT AT THE FIRST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER OR WHERE THE MEASUREMENT IS STARTED FROM, WHICH IS, I UNDERSTAND, IS JUST CONFUSION.
BUT AGAIN, UM, MY SUITE, MY LOCATION, IT'S, UH, ALL THE WAY INSIDE THE CORNER OF THE SHOPPING CENTER.
AND IT IS, UH, AND I BELIEVE IT IS, UH, WELL OVER, UM, 11, UH, 1100 FEET AWAY FROM, UH, RESIDENTIAL BOUNDARIES.
ARIAN, UH, MR. WILKINS, DO YOU HAVE A BRIEF CLOSING? SURE.
UM, WELL, IN, IN TERMS OF THE, THE FACT ISSUE REGARDING THE, THE LOCATION, I, I THINK WE ALL RESOLVED THAT UNDER THE ORDINANCE.
IT'S WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL, UH, USE.
BUT, UM, REGARDING WHETHER IT'S, IT'S, UH, THE BUSINESS IS ELIGIBLE FOR, UH, THE EXEMPTION, UM, IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTY OR BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC SAFETY OR WELFARE.
UH, WE PRESENTED EVIDENCE THAT IT'S NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC SAFETY OR WELFARE.
UH, WE'VE GOT NO EVIDENCE THAT IT'LL DOWNGRADE PROPERTY VALUE OR QUALITY OF LIFE OR CONTRIBUTE TO URBAN BLIGHT.
UM, THAT, UH, IT'LL BE CONTRARY TO ANY PROGRAM OF NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION.
AND, UM, I, I GUESS, UH, ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONY YOU'VE HEARD SO FAR, MR. ZARIAN INTENDS TO COMPLY WITH ALL OTHER PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER 14.
UM, AND IN ONE YEAR WE'LL FIND OUT IF THAT'S BEEN THE CASE.
UM, WITH THAT, WE WILL, UH, PROCEED TO MOTIONS.
BEFORE WE DO THAT, I HAVE A QUESTION.
THE BOARD COUNSEL, UH, WHICH IS THE APPELLANT, HAS RAISED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE DENIAL WAS PROPERTY IN FIRST INSTANCE BASED ON THE CITY ORDINANCE AND THE FACTUAL QUESTION OF THE DISTANCE FROM THE PROPERTY, SORRY, FROM THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE USE AS PART OF THE PREMISES WHERE DANCE HALL IS CONDUCTED.
UM, IF THE BOARD MEMBERS FEEL THAT THAT FACT IS NOT SATISFIED, UM, IS IT WITHIN OUR DOMAIN TO SIMPLY REVERSE THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S DECISION RATHER THAN GRANTING AN EXEMPTION? YES, THAT IS PROPER.
YOU CAN QUESTION THE MEASUREMENT AND DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET PURSUANT TO HOW WE MEASURED TO THE CODE.
UM, WITH THAT THEN I WILL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR MOTIONS.
UH, IS THERE A MOTION REGARDING EITHER GRANTING AN EXEMPTION TO THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION OR, UM, FINDING THAT THE DECISION WAS INCORRECT AND, AND SIMPLY REVERSING THE DECISION ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE? WELL, I'D LIKE TO SAY, UH, SOMETHING ON THAT I'M NOT COMFORTABLE, UH, UH, AT, AT THIS POINT.
I MEAN, DO YOU WANNA MAKE A, A MOTION, MR. JEFFERSON? WELL, I'M JUST, I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSING IT RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T KNOW IF I WANNA, WELL, YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN DISCUSS AFTER THERE'S A MOTION.
WELL, AND MAKE A MOTION IN, IN ORDER TO, UM, TO REVERSE THE DECISION BY THE CHIEF OF POLICE, BASED ON THE EXCEPTIONS OFFERED IN SECTION 14.
SO YOUR MOTION IS TO GRANT AN EXEMPTION? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND, AND BY BYPASS ALL THE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER, UH, THE CITY OR MR. ZOL GARRIN HAS THE RIGHT MEASUREMENT.
UH, SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO GRANT AN EXEMPTION.
I SECOND WHAT POINT OF ORDER, UH, MR. JEFFERSON SECONDS.
UM, MR. QUENTIN, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED FOR A POINT OF ORDER.
SO, MR. CILLA SAID HE WANTS TO REVERSE THE DECISION.
UH, IS HE ASKING TO OVERTURN OR JUST GET AN EXEMPTION? HE DIDN'T SAY REVERSE.
UH, WE, UH, UM, HE, HE, UH, HE CORRECTED TO JUST SAY THAT, UH, THAT HE WANTS TO GRANT THE EXEMPTION.
I PASSED THE OTHER, THE OTHER, UH, UM, THE OTHER DISCUSSION.
[02:20:01]
THE LETTER ALWAYS SAYS THAT, ANYWAY, THE CHIEF'S DECISION IS REVERSED AND THE EXEMPTION IS GRANTED.SO IT'S, IT'S, UM, SO, UH, UM, WE'LL PROCEED TO DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.
OF COURSE, MR. QUINT, IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT, UH, TO THE MOTION, THEY COULD PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION.
BUT, UH, WE WILL PROCEED WITH DISCUSSION ON MR. C'S MO, UH, MOTION, WHICH, UH, HE'LL CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, I'M CERTAIN, BUT I BELIEVE IS TO, UH, NOT ADDRESS THE DISTANCE MEASUREMENT AND SIMPLY GRANT THE EXTENSION.
UH, MR. C CILLA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR MOTION? MOTION? OH, BRIEFLY.
I MEAN, IT JUST, IT WAS, I THINK THAT THERE PROBABLY IS, UM, SOME DISTANCE ISSUE AND INTERPRETATION OF WHERE THE MEASUREMENT SHOULD START.
SO TO BYPASS THAT, AND BECAUSE WE HAVE THAT POWER, AT LEAST TO JUST, UH, RECOGNIZE AN EXEMPTION, UM, I WOULD SAY THAT THE, I THINK THE EASIER THING TO DO, AND EXACTLY WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS SUGGESTED, IS THAT WE'LL SEE IN 12 MONTHS AS THERE'S SOME ISSUE OR WHATEVER WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
BUT AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T SEE ANY, UM, ANY REASON NOT TO AT LEAST GRANT THE EXEMPTION, UM, AND MOVE FORWARD, UH, TO SEE HOW THE, THE, UH, OPERATION HANDLES IT.
IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR MOTION? IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION? NEITHER FOR OR AGAINST IT, OTHER THAN ME? I GUESS I JUST HAVE A QUESTION, UH, AS WELL.
SO, WILL THIS, I GUESS, BE A PROPER FORUM MOVING FORWARD FOR QUESTIONING WHETHER THE CITY MEASURED CORRECTLY OR NOT? ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO KIND OF WEIGH IN ON THAT? HAVE, THIS IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION.
I'M TRYING TO DISTINGUISH THIS FROM THE, FROM THE FIRST HEARING, RIGHT.
OR MR. CHAIR, THE COURT? I'M JUST POINT OF ORDER YEAH.
UM, UH, YEAH, UH, UH, TREATING THAT AS A POINT OF ORDER, UM, I, I THINK THAT THE ANSWER IS THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT FACTUAL DETERMINATION.
UH, BY MAKING THIS MOTION, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY SAYING YES, THE DISTANCE WAS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL USE BECAUSE YOU ARE ACQUIESCING TO THAT POINT AND MOVING FORWARD AND SAYING, I'M GRANTING THE ONE YEAR EXEMPTION.
SO YOU, WE, SO WE ARE EFFECTIVELY RULING ON THAT, CORRECT.
MAKING THIS BY MAKING THIS MOTION.
YOU HAVE ALREADY SAID YES, IT'S WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
SO THEREFORE WE'RE MOVING FORWARD THE LOCATIONAL EXEMPTION AND MOVING FORWARD WITH THE ONE YEAR.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE MR. CCIA DIDN'T WANNA ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF MEASUREMENT.
SO, BUT BY MAKE, BUT, BUT THIS MOTION EFFECTIVELY, EFFECTIVELY SAYS WE AGREE WITH THE CITY DE DETERMINATION THAT IT'S WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
SO BY MAKING THE MOTION, HE ALREADY KIND OF MADE THAT DISCUSSION AND DETERMINATION THAT IT WAS WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
AND SECRET MOVING FORWARD WITH JUST GRANTING, UM, THE EXEMPTION TO THE LOCATION, NO REQUIREMENT.
UH, ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? I, I WOULD ONE MORE TIME JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, UH, MINUTES FOR YOU.
AND I GUESS THE IDEA IS THAT OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO APPEAL OR THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO APPLY AGAIN AFTER THE EXEMPTION, SO THEREFORE IT GIVES 'EM 12 MONTHS, UM, IN ORDER TO ADDRESS HOW THINGS ARE MEASURED, WHETHER IT'S MEASURED CORRECTLY, SPEND THE TIME IN REGARD TO SEEING IF THEY WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT AN APPEAL AGAIN.
BUT NOW HE HAS 12 MONTHS TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
SO YES, BY DEFACTO, UH, WE ARE RECOGNIZING, I GUESS BY, AS A, WHAT I'M ASKING IS MOVE FORWARD.
IT'S A THOUSAND, IT'S WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
UM, AND THEN LET MR. SOGAR GO IN, ARGUE HIS CASE FOR THE NEXT 12 MONTHS OF HOW THINGS SHOULD BE MEASURED.
IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? I'M STILL A FOUR POINT OF ORDER.
MR. QUENTIN, DO YOU RECOGNIZE PER POINT OF ORDER? SO IF WE GO DOWN THIS ROAD AND SAY, YES, WE AGREE WITH IT'S WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET.
WE'RE GONNA WIND UP BACK HERE AGAIN NEXT
[02:25:01]
YEAR.'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA SAY HE'S STILL AGAIN WITHIN IT.
SO DO WE NOT TRY TO ADDRESS THAT THE MEASUREMENT WAS WRONG? THAT WAY WE DON'T END UP BACK HERE.
MR. QUENT, YOUR PARENT ORDER IS OVERRULED, BUT I WILL RECOGNIZE YOU FOR THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION.
'CAUSE IT, IT, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION.
I, I'M FOR IT, BUT I WAS JUST TRYING NOT TO END UP BACK HERE AGAIN NEXT YEAR.
UM, I, SINCE THERE'S NOBODY SPEAKING AGAINST THE MOTION, I WILL RECOGNIZE MR. QUINT TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION.
UM, I, ALL I CAN SAY IS I'M FOR THIS MOTION, I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, EVEN THOUGH THE MEASUREMENT, I DISAGREE WITH THE WAY IT WAS MEASURED.
SO I'M SPEAKING, I THINK WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY GO FORWARD AND GRANT THE EXEMPTION.
UM, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? UM, I AM GONNA SPEAK ON THE MOTION.
UH, I, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY HAS SAID SO FAR, EXCEPT, UM, I ESPECIALLY AGREE WITH MR. QUINT.
UH, BASED ON THE BOARD COUNSEL'S, UM, ADVICE THAT PASSING THIS MOTION WOULD ESSENTIALLY ACQUIESCE IN THE CITY'S MEASUREMENT.
THE WAY I READ THE ORDINANCE, I THINK IT'S SLIGHTLY AMBIGUOUS, BUT I THINK UNDER THE RULE OF LENIENCY, UM, I, I THINK THE, I BELIEVE THAT THE APPELLANT'S MEASUREMENT IS CORRECT AND THAT THIS RESIDENTIAL USE IS ACTUALLY MORE THAN A THOUSAND FEET AWAY.
THEREFORE, I'M PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO MR. CUC CHI'S MOTION, UM, THAT WE AMEND THE MOTION TO, UH, REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND NOT GRANT AN EXEMPTION.
UH, AND WE JUST SIMPLY REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
SO, IS THERE A SECOND THAT ORDER? 'CAUSE THAT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT THE MOTION IS.
THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS TO ALLOW THE EXEMPTION FOR ONE YEAR.
SO AN AMENDMENT WOULD BE, I, I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHAT AN AMENDMENT WOULD BE BECAUSE THEY DON'T QUALIFY FOR A TWO YEAR.
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TO REVERSE ON BASED ON A DIFFERENT DECISION, UM, WHICH IS NOT AN AMENDMENT, AND IT'S CONTRARY TO THIS MOTION.
UH, THEN IF MY AMENDMENT WOULD BE OUT OF ORDER, MY, UH, I WILL VOTE AGAINST THIS MOTION.
UM, AND INSTEAD, UH, WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE BOARD MERELY REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
SO THEN I AM AGAINST, UH, MR. CUCH CHI'S MOTION A POINT OF ORDER? YES.
UM, CAN MR. CILLA WITHDRAW HIS MOTION AND A NEW MOTION YOU PUT ON THE TABLE TO OVERTURN, UH, AFTER THE MOTION'S BEEN SECONDED? UM, I THINK IT HAS TO BE, TECHNICALLY IT CAN BE IF THIS, THERE'S NO OBJECTION FROM THE BOARD.
OR, UH, DOES HE EVEN WANT TO, UH, MR. QUINT, THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION FROM THE PARLIAMENTARIAN IS THAT YES, THE MOTION CAN BE WITHDRAWN IF MR. CILLA WANTS TO WITHDRAW IT, AND THERE'S NO OBJECTION.
UM,
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? WELL, YES.
I, I SAID EARLIER IN, UH, THAT I FELT LIKE THE, JUST FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM THE TESTIMONY ON BOTH SIDES, THAT I FELT LIKE, UH, DISCUSSION OF EXEMPTION WAS CERTAINLY IN ORDER.
UH, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, GOING AGAINST MY CHIEF HOWEVER, AND SAYING ON RECORD THAT HE WAS WRONG AND, AND ALL THAT.
BUT I WILL, I WOULD GO WITH THE EXEMPTION.
UH, ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? UH, WELL, I THINK, UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES, I WOULD AGREE MORE OUT OF BOTH POTENTIAL.
OUT OF ONE MOTION? I WOULD AGREE WITH, UM, JUST
[02:30:01]
KIND OF CLEARING THINGS UP AND JUST REVERSING THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.THAT THEY AIRED IN, UH, MEASUREMENTS.
UH, ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION? OKAY.
AND AGAIN, THE VOTE IS, UH, MERELY WHETHER WE GRANT AN EXEMPTION TO, UH, DEAD YORK CAFE AND NOT WHETHER WE ARE ACTUALLY REVERSING THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S DECISION.
SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF GRANTING AN EXEMPTION WITHOUT REVERSING THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
THOSE OPPOSED? PLEASE SAY NAY.
UH, WE WILL NEED TO TAKE A VOICE VOTE.
IS THIS LIST ACCURATE? UH, BEN CNIK VOTING NAY, UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES? NAY.
NAY, UH, MS. KYLE, ARE YOU FOR, ARE YOU VOTING I OR NAY ON THIS MOTION? I THINK YOU JUST, JUST CHANGED IT.
UM, THIS IS THE MOTION TO GRANT AN EXEMPTION WITHOUT OVERTURNING THE CHIEF'S DECISION REGARDING THE THOUSAND FOOT LIMITATION.
AND IF I SAY YES TO THIS, THEN WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT OVERTURNING IT.
'CAUSE I THOUGHT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY ON THE TABLE.
UH, IF YOU SAY NO TO THIS, THEN THAT WILL BE ON THE TABLE.
IF YOU SAY YES, THEN IT'S OFF THE TABLE.
WHAT DID, HMM? WHAT DID MR. HAYES SAY? HE SAID NAY, I THINK, RIGHT? I DID WHEN WE ORIGINALLY VOTED.
OH, BUT NOW YOU'RE, ARE YOU CHANGING YOUR MIND NOW? UM, THERE'S, THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.
YEAH, I CAN'T, UM, IT, UM, NO, I JUST MEANT THAT I, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SAY WHAT I'M GOING TO VOTE UNTIL I'M CALLED UPON.
ALRIGHT, I OR NAY ON THIS MOTION.
SO IF I SAY NAY, THEN WE'RE VOTING ON OVERTURNING IT FOR IF YOU SAY NAY, THEN DISCUSSION GONNA SAY NAY.
IF THE NAYS PREVAILED, THEN THE AMENDMENT IS GONE.
OR THIS, THIS DECISION IS, IS.
AYE, UM, THE VOTE FAILS, UH, THREE VOTES IN FAVOR, SIX VOTES AGAINST, IS THAT RIGHT? YES.
YOU HAVE NINE PEOPLE HERE? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, IS THERE A DIFFERENT MOTION REGARDING THE, UH, DENIAL OF THE LATE HOURS PERMIT FOR DID YOUR CAFE MOVE THAT WE OVERTURNED THE CHIEF OF POLICE DECISION AND GRANT THE LATE NIGHT HOURS PER PERMIT FOR DE DIOR CAFE.
UH, MR. QUAINT, COULD YOU CLARIFY YOUR MOTION A LITTLE BIT? UM, IN WHAT RESPECT CHAIR DO, DO YOU WANT TO MERELY REVERSE THE CHIEF'S DECISION AND GRANT THE LATE AND BASED ON THE, THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION AND SIMPLY GRANT THE PERMIT? UH, YEAH, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S, UM, ON THE, THE LOCATIONAL AND REVERSING THE CHIEF.
SO WE ARE REVERSING THE CHIEF'S DECISION, UH, ON THE FACTUAL BASIS OF THE LOCATIONAL RESTRICTION.
UH, IS THERE A SECOND FOR THAT MOTION? I'LL SECOND THAT.
UH, MR. QUINN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF YOUR MOTION? I'LL SPEAK VERY, VERY BRIEFLY.
UM, I THINK THAT IN AS MUCH AS THE CITY WAS GOING BY THE WAY
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THAT THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN, UM, ALL THE PAPERWORK SHOWS SUITE ONE 10 VERSUS JUST THE BUILDING ITSELF.AND I THINK THAT THE APPELLATE'S MEASUREMENTS ARE CORRECT AND FACTUAL, AND IT IS WELL OVER A THOUSAND FEET.
UH, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION? ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION? NEITHER FOR OR AGAINST? YEAH, I'M JUST, I WAS SWAYED BY YOUR DESCRIPTION, MR. CHAIR, ABOUT SOME KIND OF PRINCIPLE OF LENIENCY.
COULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE MORE BEFORE I VOTE? UM, UH, YEAH, I, UH, NO, I CAN'T ACTUATE
THEN YOU CAN DO YOUR RESEARCH THEN.
UM, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION? UH, MS. KYLE, YOU'RE THE SECOND, SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR.
YEAH, I, I, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO GRANITE FROM HIS ACTUAL LOCATION WHERE THE DANCE HALL IS LOCATED.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BUILDING ITSELF, THERE'S PLENTY OTHER OF BUSINESS.
THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER BUSINESSES BETWEEN HIS DANCE HALL AND THE END OF THE BUILDING.
AND I COUNTED LIKE, WELL, WE'RE, I'LL TAKE MY RESEARCH OUT OF IT.
BUT I AGREE WITH HIS MEASUREMENTS.
UH, IS THERE, IS THERE ANYBODY, UH, WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST, UH, ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION? NEITHER FOR, NOR AGAINST.
I'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION THAT THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE ALONG WITH THE, UH, ALONG WITH THE, UH, HEARING BEFORE THIS, THAT JANUARY IS A GREAT TIME FOR US TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AGAIN WITH OUR, UM, COUNSEL, UM, AND KIND OF HAVE SOME, UH, BRIEFINGS OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND HOW WE INTERPRET AND HOW WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS.
I, I THINK THIS WAS GOOD THE LAST TIME WE DID IT.
I, I'D LIKE, I THINK WE'RE COMING UP WITH ISSUES TO DISCUSS FOR THIS NEW JANUARY SESSION.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THIS PARTICULAR MOTION LIMITING YOUR COMMENTS TO THIS PARTICULAR MOTION? UM, I WILL SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION.
UM, AND, UH, AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY ON THE PRIOR MOTION, I THINK INTERPRETING THE MEASUREMENTS BASED ON THE RULE OF LENIENCY, WHICH IS, UH, IN MY UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT THAT WHERE, UH, THERE'S SOME AMBIGUITY IN THE LAW, IT SHOULD BE INTERPRETED, UH, TO BE LESS STRICT, UH, OR IN FAVOR OF THE, UH, I, I GUESS AGAINST THE, THE STATE.
UM, AND BASED ON MY REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE, UH, I BELIEVE THAT THE APPELLANT HAS MADE A GOOD ARGUMENT THAT UNDER THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE STANDARD, UM, HIS, THE NEAREST PART OF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE USED AS PART OF THE PREMISES WHERE A DANCE HALL IS CONDUCTED, UH, IS MORE THAN A THOUSAND FEET FROM THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, USE.
SO, UH, THAT IS WHY I AM IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION.
UH, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST OR ON, OR IN FAVOR? ALL RIGHT.
IF THERE'S NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH A VOTE ON THIS MOTION.
AND AGAIN, THE MOTION IS TO MERELY REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE BASED ON THE FACTUAL DETERMINATION, UM, THAT THE PREMISES IS A THOUSAND FEET FROM THE RESIDENTIAL LOT DEVOTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.
UM, AND WE WILL HAVE A VOICE VOTE ON MOTION NUMBER TWO.
AYE UH, VICE CHAIR TORRES AYE.
[02:40:02]
AYE.UH, MR. JEFFERSON, MAY, MR. ILLA? AYE.
AND THE MOTION PASSES SEVEN TO ONE.
UH, THIS CONCLUDES TODAY'S HEARING.
UM, ALL THOSE MEMBERS ATTENDING REMOTELY, PLEASE UH, WATCH YOUR EMAIL FOR THE FINDINGS REQUIRING YOUR SIGNATURE.
UH, MR. UH, ZULIAN DETECTIVES, THANK YOU FOR, UH, ATTENDING TODAY.
EXCUSE ME, CHAIRMAN, I HAVE ONE MORE, ONE MORE QUESTION IF YOU DON'T MIND TO ASK.
UH, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED, I MEAN, THE HEARING'S OVER, BUT YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND ASK
YEAH, JUST, UH, JUST ONE QUESTION.
SO IF I WANNA DO THE RENEWAL ON THIS, UH, DANCE DATE, LATE HOURS PERMIT, DO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN OR IS JUST GONNA BE JUST, UH, THE SAME PROCESS THAT I JUST HAVE TO APPLY FOR IT AND, UH, GET APPROVED FOR IT? UM, I'M NOT MR. MR. WILKINS IS GONNA HAVE TO, YOU WILL HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE RENEWAL.
'CAUSE THE PERMIT'S ONLY GOOD FOR A YEAR.
YOU'LL HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE RENEWAL REGARDLESS.
AND THEN MR. WILKINS IS GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE CITY DOES WITH THAT NEXT YEAR.
WELL, I, I'LL ACTUALLY ONLY BE INVOLVED IF THE CITY HAS DECIDED.
ALRIGHT, WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE, UH, FOR YOUR TIME.
I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR, UH, THIS AGENT.