* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. RIGHT. OKAY. [00:00:01] THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH FOR GOVERNMENT WORK. GOOD MORNING. UH, IT IS 9:09 AM [Special Board of Adjustment on October 29, 2024.] ON THE 29TH OF OCTOBER, 2024. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OF THE CITY OF DALLAS IS HEREBY CALLED TO ORDER. OUR QUORUM REQUIREMENT IS 10, AND MY COUNT RIGHT NOW, UH, IS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ARE PRESENT, UH, EITHER ONLINE OR IN PERSON HERE AT DALLAS CITY HALL, CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS. I HEREBY CALL THE FULL BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETING TO ORDER. UM, I'D LIKE TO PREVIEW OUR AGENDA FIRST BOARD MEMBERS. UM, UH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE INTRODUCTIONS. I'M GONNA ASK EACH ONE OF YOU AS MEMBERS AND ALTERNATES TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF. TELL US NOT WHAT DISTRICT YOU WERE APPOINTED BY OR A COUNCIL MEMBER, BUT WHAT GENERAL AREA OF THE CITY THAT YOU LIVE IN. SO LIKE A STREET INTERSECTION OR A NEIGHBORHOOD. TELL US THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT YOU LIVE IN. MAYBE THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SERVES THE CITY, NOT A SPECIFIC COUNCIL DISTRICT. SO, UH, IN THAT SORT OF INTRODUCTION, UH, IT, WE'LL DO THAT FIRST. THEN WE WILL INVITE PUBLIC TESTIMONY TO SPEAK TO THE BOARD TODAY. I WILL TELL YOU THAT ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, I REACHED OUT TO, UM, GOSH, 10 15 DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE REGULARLY APPEARED BEFORE THE BOARD AND INDIVIDUALLY INVITED THEM TO COME SPEAK. UH, SEVERAL RESPONDENTS, SEVERAL ARE HERE WITH US. UH, SEVERAL SAID THAT THEY WILL FOLLOW UP WITH SOMETHING IN WRITING AND WHEN, AND IF WE GET THAT, I WILL CIRCULATE THAT TO YOU THROUGH OUR BOARD SECRETARY. THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE SPEAKERS THIS MORNING. UH, PREVIOUSLY WE HAD TENTATIVELY ROBIN BENTLEY, OUR INTERIM ASSISTANT MANAGER, AND ALSO EMILY LIU, OUR DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, TO SPEAK TO US TODAY AND GIVE US A POWERPOINT ABOUT SOME OF HER VISION. UH, THEN, UH, WE'RE GONNA GO OVER A CHAIRMAN'S REPORT BRIEFLY, AND THEN WE DO TRAINING. OUR TRAINING IS GONNA BE ON ETHICS AND CONFLICT, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. UH, DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS, WHO'S OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, IS GONNA TALK TO US, UH, REGARDING PARKING AND BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY. THEN WE GO TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BACK AGAIN, UH, SOME INTRODUCTIONS. THEN TALK ABOUT CITY CODE AUTHORITY VARIANCES, FINANCIAL COST COMPLIANCE, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, AND AO APPEALS. WE'RE GONNA DO A LITTLE BIT OF DISCUSSION ON CASE LAW, SO GIVE YOU A REFERENCE. AND THEN TEXAS OPEN MEETING ACT TODAY. UH, WE WILL HAVE TIME TODAY FOR BOARD MEMBER FEEDBACK AND RESPONSE AND LUNCH. WE WILL BREAK FOR LUNCH WHEN IT'S NATURAL. 12 NOON, 1230, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UH, AND THEN WE HAVE ACTION ITEMS. AND OUR ACTION ITEMS TODAY ON THE AGENDA IS OUR, UH, REVIEW AND APPROVAL MEETING MINUTES ARE TO DISCUSS AND APPROVE OUR MEETING CALENDAR FOR 2025, AND THEN THE REVIEW AND ADOPTION OF OUR ANNUAL REPORT THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL, BOTH OUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, OUR GOALS AND OBJECTIONS AND GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, AND THEN BOARD RECOMMENDATIONS. AND THEN LAST BUT NOT LEAST, SOME AMENDMENTS TO OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE. THAT IS THE GIST OF OUR AGENDA. UH, I HAD COMMUNICATED TO EVERYONE THAT WE HOPE TO START AT NINE AND END AT FOUR. THAT IS WHAT I'M FOCUSED ON. UM, SO WITH THAT BEING THE CASE, WE'RE GONNA START WITH INTRODUCTIONS. UM, SO I'LL START. SO THAT GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A TEMPLATE, AND THEN I'M GONNA GO TO OUR VICE CHAIR, GABO, AND THEN VICE CHAIR AGNES. AND THEN WE'LL GO AROUND THE ROOM. UM, AGAIN, MY NAME IS DAVE NEWMAN, AND I'M HONORED TO SERVE AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER OF PANEL A, UM, I SERVED 20 YEARS AGO WITH THAT GENTLEMAN RIGHT OVER THE AUDIENCE AS AN ALTERNATE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I'M POINTING TO STEVE LONG, AND THAT'S WHERE I CUT MY TEETH ON CITY GOVERNANCE. SO FOR TWO YEARS, I WAS AN ALTERNATE ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND THEN WAS APPOINTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THEN APPOINTED VICE CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY RAN FOR AND WAS ELECTED TO TWO TERMS AS THE CITY COUNCILMAN. UH, I HAVE TWO KIDS, 31 AND 28. I'M MARRIED. WE LIVE IN THE, UH, PRESTON FOREST AREA, WHICH IS LBJ AND PRESTON FOREST AREA OF NORTH CENTRAL DALLAS. BEEN IN DALLAS OVER 40 YEARS. UM, AND IT'S AN HONOR TO SERVE, UM, IN THE VOLUNTEER CAPACITY AND, UM, BE PART OF THE LEADERSHIP TEAM THAT WE HAVE HERE TODAY. SO WE'LL GO TO MS. GABO. THAT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION. WELL, TOO MUCH, BUT YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE, BUT GO FOR IT, MS. GABO. OKAY. I'M SHERRY GABO. I HAVE SERVED ON THE BOARD FOR I THINK, NINE YEARS, ALMOST, ALMOST NINE YEARS. AND, UM, I LIVE IN THE, UH, UH, RIGHT OFF OF WALNUT HILL. AND I HAVE TWO CHILDREN, 23 AND 19. AND, UM, I REALLY ENJOY SERVING ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. ARE I SUPPOSED TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE? YOU'RE VICE CHAIR OF THE BOARD. OH, I'M VICE CHAIR OF AND PRESIDING OFFICER OF PANEL B, I THINK. YEP, I'M GOOD. OKAY. OKAY. AND THIS WILL BE MS. GA'S LAST YEAR ON THE BOARD. SO, SO IN SEPTEMBER OF NEXT YEAR, SHE WILL TERM OUT. SO [00:05:01] NEXT VICE CHAIR AGNIS. I'M ROBERT AGNI, I'M VICE CHAIR AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER OF PANEL C. UH, I LIVE IN THE DOWNS AREA. UH, WHAT ELSE, WHAT INTERSECTION IS THAT, ROBERT? UH, THAT'S JUST NORTH OF, SAY, FOREST AND HILLCREST. OKAY. SOUTH OF LBJ. OKAY. UM, UH, I HAVE NO CRITTERS TO WORRY ABOUT THAT AREN'T FURRY. UM, I RUN A SMALL INVESTMENT COMPANY IN DALLAS. I WAS BORN HERE AND MOVED AWAY AND, UH, CAME HOME FOR GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT. AND HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU SERVED ON THE, WHEN DID YOU FIRST START SERVING ON THE BOARD OF JUSTICE? I WAS APPOINTED BY LINDA KOOP AS AN ALTERNATE, UH, THEN BY LEE KLEINMAN, ULTIMATELY AS A, AS A, AS A FULL MEMBER. AND I ALSO WORKED WITH THAT GENTLEMAN SITTING IN THE STANDS. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WE'LL GO ALL THE WAY OVER TO DR. GLOVER NEXT. MY NAME IS DR. MANUEL GLOVER. UM, THIS IS MY SECOND TERM. I'M AN ALTERNATE, AND I LIVE IN THE WEST DALLAS, UM, TRINITY GROVES AREA. THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER. MR. SINGTON, ROGER SINGTON. UM, DISTRICT THREE. I LIVE IN THE FAR SOUTHWEST, UM, CORNER OF DALLAS. UM, PROBABLY MORE COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE MOUNTAIN CREEK CEDAR RIDGE AREA. UM, THIS IS MY, I DON'T KNOW, I STARTED ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS IN 2018, AND I, I'M SURE MANY OF US WILL HAVE VERY GOOD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE GENTLEMAN SITTING IN THE, UM, IN THE SEATS OUT, UH, OUT FRONT, UH, MR. STEVE LONG, WHO IS, UM, UM, A TREASURE TO THE CITY AND WE APPRECIATE HIS, UH, HIS SERVICE. I, I, I WILL ECHO THAT. THANK YOU, MR. SACHIN. MR. FINNEY, MY NAME IS ANDREW FINNEY. UH, I AM SERVING MY SECOND TERM AS AN ALTERNATE IN THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I LIVE IN WEST OAK CLIFF. UM, I AM, I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT OF OAK CLIFF FOR NINE YEARS, WEST OAK CLIFF FOR THREE YEARS. UM, AND I DID NOT GROW UP IN DALLAS, BUT I GOT HERE AS FAST AS I COULD. 'CAUSE I'M, I'M THE FOURTH GENERATION IN MY FAMILY TO LIVE IN OAK CLIFF, SO VERY EXCITED TO BE HERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. FINNEY. MS. DAVIS. GOOD MORNING. I'M KATHLEEN DAVIS. I MOVED TO DALLAS FIVE YEARS AGO WITH MY HUSBAND AND JUST LOVE THE CITY. IT, IT'S AN EASY CITY TO FALL IN LOVE WITH. I BELIEVE I'M SERVING MY SECOND TERM, AND OUR YOUNGEST DAUGHTER IS IN DENTAL SCHOOL AT TEXAS A AND M, AND I LIVE IN NORTH OAKCLIFF. HAPPY TO BE HERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. DAVIS. MR. SLATE. UH, JARED SLATE. I LIVE IN GREENWAY PARKS, UH, INWOOD MOCKINGBIRD AREA. UM, I WAS APPOINTED AS AN ALTERNATE AND I'M NOW IN MY SECOND TERM AS A FULL MEMBER. THANK YOU, MR. SLADE KAMIKA. WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU IN A SECOND. WE'LL GO OVER TO MR. NARY. UH, I'M JANE RIE. UM, I'VE LIVED IN DALLAS 34 YEARS. I LIVE IN THE MIDWAY HOLLOW AREA OF THE CITY, ROUGHLY AT, UH, NORTHWEST HIGHWAY AND MIDWAY ROAD. UM, I BELIEVE I AM ABOUT TO TURN OUT LIKE MS. GABO. UH, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU'RE CORRECT. YES. THIS IS YOUR LAST TERM. YES, I THINK IT'S MY LAST YEAR. UM, BUT ANYWAY, I'VE ENJOYED MY SERVICE, SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. N. MR. CANNON. HI. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. I AM JOE CANNON. UM, THE YEAR'S STARTING TO RACK UP. I'VE BEEN SERVING ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS SINCE 2021, SO THREE YEARS NOW. AND MY RESIDENCE IS IN EAST VILLAGE. SO IF Y'ALL ARE FAMILIAR WITH WHERE THE CENTRAL DEVELOPMENT IS GOING UP, UH, 75 AND HASKELL, IT IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD TUCKED BEHIND THERE. SO GLAD TO BE HERE WITH Y'ALL. THANK YOU, MR. CANNON. MS. HAYDEN, GOOD MORNING. I'M RACHEL HAYDEN. I LIVE IN THE LITTLE FOREST HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD OF DALLAS ON THE EAST SIDE OF WHITE ROCK LAKE, JUST EAST OF THE ARBORETUM. AND I HAVE LIVED IN DALLAS FOR 34 YEARS SINCE I GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE. . I KNOW. I DON'T LOOK THAT OLD, SO, NO. SO, UM, BUT I, UH, I HAVE TWO KIDS, A 29 YEAR OLD'S DAUGHTER, AND A 26-YEAR-OLD SON. AND WE, THEY GREW UP IN LAKEWOOD HEIGHTS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WHITE ROCK LAKE. THANK YOU, MS. HAYDEN. MS. P*****K. HELLO, I'M JUDY P*****K, AND THIS IS MY FIFTH YEAR TO SERVE ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND MY 26TH YEAR OF SERVICE TO THE CITY OF DALLAS AND VARIOUS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, AND SOMETIMES EVEN AS CHAIR. I'VE LIVED IN DALLAS ON AND OFF SINCE 1973, AND I, UH, SPENT MANY YEARS BEING A, AN ENTREPRENEUR. AND WHEN I SOLD MY LAST BUSINESS, I BECAME A PROFESSIONAL FUNDRAISER. AND I'M ENJOYING MY SERVICE ON, UM, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT UNDER OUR FEARLESS LEADERS. YOU'RE [00:10:01] VERY KIND. THANK YOU, MS. P*****K. UH, JOINING US ONLINE IS ALTERNATE MEMBER NICK BROOK. NICK, DID YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF? THANK YOU, JASON. OKAY. YEAH, THANKS DAVE. I APPRECIATE, THERE YOU GO. APPRECIATE THE, UH, DISPENSATION. I'M NOT TURNING ON MY CAMERA. I'M A LITTLE UNDER THE WEATHER. AND, AND WOULD MY, MY, UH, APPEARANCE WOULD, UH, IS BENEATH THE DIGNITY OF THIS, UH, FINE BOARD. UM, I LIVE IN, UM, NORTH OAK CLIFF IN, UH, KID SPRINGS. UM, I HAVE BEEN AN ALTERNATE, UM, SINCE 2000, UH, AND 17 AND, UH, HAVE REALLY ENJOYED, UM, MY, UH, SEVEN YEARS OF SERVICE ON THE BOARD. UM, IT'S BEEN FUN TO WATCH THE BOARD SORT OF CHANGE. UM, AND I THINK THE BOARD IS IN AS, AS GOOD A POSITION AS IT'S EVER BEEN IN. THANK YOU, MR. BROOKS. UM, ALRIGHT. SO WE'VE INTRODUCED ALL BOARD MEMBERS AND ALTERNATES, AS I HAVE REINFORCED TO ALTERNATES AND BOARD MEMBERS ALIKE, WHETHER PANEL HEARINGS OR AT THIS FULL BOARD MEETING, AN ALTERNATE IS EQUAL IN STATURE AND VOTING CAPACITY AND VOICE. SO EVERYONE'S TREATED EQUALLY HERE. EVERYONE'S TREATED EQUALLY AT A PANEL HEARING. I'D LIKE NEXT, OUR TWO OFFICERS, EXCUSE ME, OUR THREE OFFICERS, BESIDES THE VICE CHAIR AND MYSELF, TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES ACCORDING TO OUR RULES. YOU HAVE A CHAIRMAN, TWO VICE CHAIRS, A BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, A BOARD ATTORNEY, AND A BOARD SECRETARY. SO BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, YOU'RE NEXT, PLEASE. GOOD MORNING. I'M DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS. I'VE BEEN WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR ONE YEAR AND SIX MONTHS, AND I'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS FOR A TOTAL OF JUST TWO AND A HALF YEARS. I MOVED HERE, UM, TO THE DFW AREA ABOUT NINE YEARS AGO FROM THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA, AND I'VE ENJOYED MY TIME HERE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, BOARD ATTORNEY, PLEASE, MS. CARLISLE. HI, GOOD MORNING. THERESA CARLISLE. I'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS FOR A LITTLE OVER EIGHT YEARS NOW, AND THIS IS GOING TO BE MY SECOND TIME AS GENERAL COUNSEL TO THE BOARD, AND I'M HAPPY TO BE BACK. WELCOME BACK. YES, MS. BOARD. SECRETARY, YOU'RE NEXT. YOUR BOARD OFFICER, MS. WILLIAMS. GOOD MORNING, MR. UH, CHAIR. UM, MY NAME IS MARY WILLIAMS. I AM THE BOARD SECRETARY, BOARD COORDINATOR FOR THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. I HAVE BEEN WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS FOR, UH, 11 YEARS NOW, AND I HAVE BEEN THE BOARD SECRETARY FOR TWO YEARS, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. EXCELLENT. ALRIGHT, SO WE WILL HAVE EACH OF THE BOARD OFFICERS INTRODUCE THEIR STAFF AS APPROPRIATE WHEN THEY GIVE PRESENTATIONS TODAY. SO, MS. UM, CAMIKA HOSKINS, WHEN YOU, YOU'LL INTRODUCE YOUR STAFF WHEN YOU PRESENT, AND THE SAME THING AS APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU PRESENT MS. CARLISLE. ALRIGHT, NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS PUBLIC TESTIMONY. UM, UH, MS. BOARD, SECRETARY, UH, WHO DO WE HAVE THAT HAVE REGISTERED AND, AND OR ARE HERE IN PERSON? MR. AND, AND AGAIN, ONE OTHER THING I WANNA REITERATE. I DID REACH OUT TO, GOSH, 10 OR 15 INDIVIDUALS ENCOURAGING THEM TO COME AND TESTIFY. UH, SOME HAVE SHOWN UP TODAY, OTHERS HAVE SAID THAT THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT TODAY, BUT THEY WOULD SEND US SOMETHING IN WRITING. AND AGAIN, I'LL CIRCULATE THAT IF WHATEVER WE GET TO THE BOARD. OKAY. GO AHEAD, MS. WILLIAMS. UM, MR. ROBERT REEVES. GOOD MORNING, MR. REEVES. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. IS THAT ON NOW? PERFECT. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION, MR. CHAIRMAN. MY NAME'S ROBERT RES, 38 0 7 VINE CREST DRIVE, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 2 9. AND I GOTTA SAY UP FRONT, I'M AN HONEST DEIST DALLAS NATIVE . I'VE BEEN HERE ALL, ALL MY LIFE. UH, I JUST WANNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ABOUT MY PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND. I AM A ZONING CONSULTANT WORKING IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. I DID WORK FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS FOR 16 YEARS. AFTER GRADUATING FROM COLLEGE, MY LAST FEW YEARS THERE, UH, I WAS OVER ALL THE BUILDING CODES. THE BUILDING OFFICIAL WAS UNDER ME. I WAS OVER THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I WAS OVER ZONING ACTIVITIES AND SUBDIVISION. I JUST, ALL PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT. I JUST HAD HAD IT ALL TOGETHER AND, UH, IT DROVE ME NUTS. I HAVE TO ADMIT , IT WAS PRETTY, PRETTY BUSY. SO, UM, I'M STILL WORKING FULL TIME. I'M SORRY, I LOST MY NOTES. I'M STILL WORKING FULL NIGHT TIME AND I RESIGNED FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS IN JULY OF 1985 AND STARTED MY OWN CONSULTING BUSINESS. AND I, AND I STILL LOVE TO WORK AND I'M STILL DOING THAT. UH, PERSONALLY, I FEEL THE [00:15:01] BOARD MAKES A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. THEY HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE. UH, WE HAVE THE PLAN COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL, WHICH ARE CERTAINLY SOMEWHAT MORE POLITICAL, AND THE PUBLIC HEARINGS GET A LITTLE LONG AND, UH, DRAWN OUT. BUT, UH, AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THE BOARD OF PUBLIC HEARINGS, ARE TYPICALLY A SHORTER TIMEFRAME. AND YOUR RULES ARE, ARE VERY CONCISE AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT MY RESPONSIBILITIES ARE AND CERTAINLY WHAT YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES ARE. I'M JUST GONNA SUMMARIZE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE, UM, ABLE TO DO. I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA GO OVER THIS, UM, FAR MORE DETAIL, UH, AND LATER ON IN THE MEETING, BUT YOU CONSIDER VARIANCES BASED ON SOME KIND OF PROPERTY HARDSHIPS, NOT SELF-INFLICTED, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. AND IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY REPRESENTING AN APPLICANT TO CONVINCE YOU THAT WE HAVE A PROPERTY HARDSHIP AND IT'S NOT SELF-INFLICTED, WHICH IS CHALLENGING SOMETIMES, FRANKLY. SO YOU CONSIDER SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, UH, FENCE HEIGHTS. UH, UNLESS THE RULES HAVE CHANGED, UH, TYPICALLY THE STAFF DOESN'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. UH, AND NEIGHBORHOOD INPUT IS, IS VERY IMPORTANT. UH, SPECIAL ON FENCE HEIGHTS ARE THE REAL TYPICAL ONE THAT COMES UP ALL THE TIME. AND, UH, I GOTTA GET THE WORD OUT WHEN I GOT THOSE COMING FORWARD. AND SCREENING IS REAL IMPORTANT OF THE, UH, SOLID FENCES. UH, YOU TERMINATE NON-CONFORMING USES, WHICH IS A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED. I'M NOT EVEN GONNA GO INTO THAT. I WOULDN'T EVEN PRETEND TO UNDERSTAND THE DETAILS OF THAT PROCESS. AND THE LAST THING THAT I FEEL IS REAL IMPORTANT, YOU HEAR APPEALS OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE OF THE CITY, THEIR DECISIONS. THAT WOULD BE A BUILDING OFFICIAL, THAT MIGHT BE A STAFF, THAT MIGHT BE, UH, ANY NUMBER OF THE PLANNING DIRECTOR, ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE. BUT YOU HEAR, IF I DISAGREE, I CAN APPEAL THEIR DECISION, UH, TO YOU. AND I REALLY HAVE ONLY DONE THAT ONE TIME PERSONALLY, AND I DON'T LIKE TO DO THAT. UH, MY GOAL IS TO TRY TO WORK THROUGH THINGS WITH, UH, THE CITY STAFF. THE ONE TIME I DID IT, I JUST, UH, I JUST DISAGREED WITH THE, THE SENIOR STAFF AND TOOK IT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, MADE MY CASE AND WON. BUT THAT'S A REAL IMPORTANT, UM, OPPOR, OPPORTUNITY'S THE WRONG WORD, BUT IT'S A REAL IMPORTANT, UH, ROLE THAT YOU HAVE. AND IT, AND IT'S OUT THERE AND IT'S AVAILABLE TO, UH, TO ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO EXERCISE THAT. RIGHT. I'M, I'M NOT KEEP I'M NOT GONNA KEEP THIS REAL LONG. I JUST WANNA SUMMARIZE, UH, SOME OF MY COMMENTS, MY MAKING THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS. IT'S VITAL TO AN APPLICANT THAT I'M PLAYING ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. AND I'M GONNA QUOTE THE LAW AS I UNDERSTAND IT. IT'S IN YOUR, UH, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UH, PROVISIONS AND STUFF. AND THE CODE STATES, I QUOTE, ALL COMMUNICATIONS, ORAL OR WRITTEN SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS RULE MAY RESULT IN A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION FOR IMPROPER INFLUENCE, WHICH IS A CLASS A DEMEANOR UNDER THE TEXAS PEN CODE, UH, SECTION 36.04. AND, UH, I'VE ACT, AND THE, FRANKLY, THE SUBDIVISION, WHEN YOU'RE DOING A SUBDIVISION, I CAN'T, I CAN'T LOBBY A COMMISSION MEMBERS. I CERTAINLY CAN'T LOBBY BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEMBERS. AND EVERYTHING IS HANDLED UNDER OATH IN THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARING BEFORE YOU GUYS. SO EVERY NOW AND THEN, AND I'VE EXPERIENCED THIS, UH, A COUPLE OF TIMES AND I'LL CHALK IT UP TO MAYBE THE PUBLIC JUST DIDN'T KNOW. AND THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO CONTACT A, UH, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEMBER. AND, UH, I WON'T GIVE SPECIFICS, BUT KUDOS TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEMBERS. THEY DECLINE AS I UNDERSTAND IT, TO TALK TO THAT MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC. 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO. AND WHEN I SAY LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, EVERYTHING IS EXPOSED. EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND, AND OR IT'S, UH, IN A PUBLIC TESTIMONY BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND THAT'S WHAT I CALL A LEVEL, A LEVEL PALING, UH, PLAYING FIELD. AND I HAVE THE RIGHT TO REVIEW COMMENTS THAT ARE SUBMITTED, UH, TO THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR ON A PARTICULAR BOARD CASE. SO, UH, YOU MEMBERS, UM, YOU MAY, YOU MAY HAVE THIS COMING UP , YOU KNOW, YOU MAY JUST 'CAUSE SOMEBODY DOESN'T KNOW, SOMEBODY MAY CALL YOU UP, UH, YOU KNOW, AND SAY, HEY, CAN YOU HELP ME OUT ON THIS? I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, AND, AND PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE SO USED TO LOBBYING, UH, PLAN COMMISSION MEMBERS AND COUNCIL MEMBERS, BUT, UH, [00:20:01] THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. I DON'T WANNA BEAT IT TO DEATH, BUT THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. AND I KNOW EVERYBODY WILL BE VERY, UH, VERY MUCH AWARE OF THAT IF IT HAPPENS TO YOU. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT JUST KIND OF SUMMARIZES MY REMARK. UH, I'VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME, , I'VE BEEN, UH, IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR SINCE 85 AND I'M STILL WORKING FULL TIME, INCIDENTALLY, , ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENTS. UH, UM, AND, AND THIS, I WANNA REITERATE ONE, THIS IS AN INTERACTIVE DAY. SO EACH AND EVERY SPEAKER, WHETHER IT BE PUBLIC OR WHETHER IT BE PROFESSIONAL STAFF THAT PRESENTS, I'M ENCOURAGING BOARD MEMBERS TO ASK QUESTIONS AND INTERACT AND AS WE GO. SO WHAT I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO DO, DO, I'M GONNA COME BACK TO YOUR QUESTION HERE IN A SECOND, IS JUST GET MY ATTENTION OR GET VICE CHAIR AGNES OR VICE CHAIR GAMBLE'S ATTENTION SO THAT WAY I CAN RECOGNIZE YOU. BUT I ENCOURAGE INTERACTIVE Q AND A AS WE GO FOR THE WHOLE DAY. SO YOUR COMMENTS ARE VERY WELL TAKEN. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE ARE ALL AWARE THAT OUR INTERACTION WITH THE APPLICANT, UH, IS ONLY AT THE HEARING. OBVIOUSLY TODAY, THIS IS PUBLIC TESTIMONY. SO THIS IS ALLOWED, AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A CASE SPECIFIC 'CAUSE THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE. BUT, UH, YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE IS A FIREWALL BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND THE PUBLIC AND ANYTHING THAT WE INDIVIDUALLY OR COLLECTIVELY DO AS A BOARD. 'CAUSE WE SIT AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY. AND WE WILL HEAR TODAY FROM OUR ATTORNEYS ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT INTERACTION. SO, SO I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT LEVEL PLAYING FIELD THAT IS PARAMOUNT TO US TO MAKE SURE, AND YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ME ALL DAY TODAY, TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS OR UNFAIRNESS AND THAT WE HAVE TO STRIVE FOR FAIRNESS. YEAH. START TO BEGINNING FROM THE MOMENT THAT AN, THAT A PROPERTY OWNER HAS A QUESTION TO THE MOMENT THAT THE BOARD DECIDES. SO THE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD'S VERY IMPORTANT. WHAT QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE FOR MR. REEVES? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE. I APPRECIATE AND COMING BEFORE US TODAY. YOU BET. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. BOARD SECRETARY, MR. STEVE LONG. SO BEFORE YOU START, I'VE GOTTA PRAISE YOU FOR A MOMENT JUST TO GET YOU EMBARRASSED. UH, STEVE LONG WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT I REACHED OUT TO, UH, BECAUSE HE IS HELD OF SUCH HIGH ESTEEM BY THE OLD HANDS HERE, MS. GAMBLE, MYSELF, MR. AGNES AND MANY OTHERS THAT HAVE, NOW I SEE MR. MARY SHAKING HIS HEAD AND MANY OTHERS THAT HAVE SERVED FOR YEARS. I WILL SAY AGAIN, FOR THE PUBLIC, HOW MUCH WE APPRECIATE YOUR YEARS OF SERVICE, THE TRAINING THAT YOU GAVE US YEARS AGO, UH, MR. AGNES AND I AND AND SHERRY ALL SAID HOW WE WORKED FOR YOU IN SOME WAY. WE DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU. YOU TRAINED US AS VOLUNTEERS. AND LOOK AT YOUR, LOOK AT YOUR END RESULT, MR. LONG. I, I, I JUST CANNOT PUBLICLY ENOUGH TELL YOU HOW MUCH WE APPRECIATE YOU AND ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU DID THROUGH ALL THE YEARS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. UM, MY NAME IS STEVE LONG. I'M AT 9 0 2 THOMASON DRIVE, DALLAS, 7 5 2 0 8. I WANT TO START BY SAYING THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE. YOU, MR. CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, VICE CHAIRS. UM, I DON'T HAVE A SCRIPT, BUT I WILL SAY THAT WHEN I SAT HERE THIS MORNING AND HEARD ALL 15 OF YOU MAKE INTRODUCTIONS ABOUT, UM, SOME OF YOU THAT HAVE SERVED IN THIS VOLUNTEER CAPACITY FOR THREE YEARS, SOME FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, IT'S JUST REALLY IMPRESSIVE AS A CITIZEN OF DALLAS THAT WE HAVE SUCH, UM, DEDICATED VOLUNTEERS AND I GUESS A DRIVE TO MAKE THE CITY A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE AND DO BUSINESS. AND I REALLY APPRECIATE EVERY ONE OF YOU, UH, COMING HERE EVERY MONTH. NOW YOU MEET ONCE A YEAR. AND AS COLLECTIVELY AS A GROUP OF 15, I THINK IT'S JUST A REAL, UM, AFFIRMING, UH, AS, AS A CITIZEN OF DALLAS, THAT REALLY FEELS GOOD TO SEE ONE OF THE 50 PLUS BOARDS WORKING SO HARD TO, TO REACT TO, UH, IN THIS CASE, APPLICATIONS MADE TO YOU BY OWNERS, DEVELOPERS TO, I GUESS, DIGRESS FROM OUR ZONING CODE. UM, BUT IT IS JUST REALLY, UM, SO IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY TO SEE THAT ALL 15 OF YOU GUYS MEMBERS ARE SO DEDICATED TO COMING HERE ONCE A MONTH AS, AS INDIVIDUAL PANEL MEMBERS. AND THEN ONCE A YEAR THAT MR. NEWMAN AS CHAIRMAN HAS, I GUESS, INITIATED SINCE HE BECAME THE CHAIR THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO. OKAY, FOUR THREE. UM, [00:25:02] I DO SEE THE IMPORTANCE AS MR. REE SAID, UH, THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS BOARD, YOUR QUASI-JUDICIAL, THE CODE SPELLS OUT VERY CLEARLY THAT, UM, YOU HAVE A SPECIAL DISTINCTION FROM MANY OTHER BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS WHERE YOUR DECISION'S FINAL UNLESS APPEALED TO DISTRICT COURT. UM, I ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW, UH, IN YOUR REACTION TO APPLICATIONS, SOME BEING MAYBE A CARPORT AND A SIDE YARD SETBACK TO A, UM, AN APPEAL TO ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL'S DECISION , EITHER THE SIMPLICITY OR THE COMPLEXITY OF THE ISSUE AT HAND, MAYBE FROM THREE PARAGRAPHS ON CERTAIN APPLICATIONS TO HUNDREDS OF PAGES ON SOMETHING ELSE MORE COMPLICATED. AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT AND JUST, UM, COMPREHENSIVENESS OF SIFTING THROUGH THE INFORMATION THAT'S GIVEN TO YOU AT A DOCKET. I ALSO APPRECIATE THE PROCESS AS MR. REESE TALKED ABOUT HOW, UM, THERE'S A FIREWALL, UM, THAT YOUR ATTORNEY AND THE CODE AND YOUR ETHICS CHAPTER EIGHT TELLS YOU TO DO CERTAIN THINGS IN KEEPING WITH THE LAW. I RESPECT THE, UM, HOW YOU HOLD THAT, UM, HIGH IN YOUR, YOUR EFFORTS TO THIS PROCESS. UM, I KNOW THAT, UH, YOU ALSO ARE ADVISED BY YOUR COUNSELOR TO MAKE SURE THAT ANY APPLICATION MADE TO YOU THAT YOU ARE TO FOLLOW THE CITY CODE STANDARD AT HAND. AND ONCE AGAIN, I THINK THAT RANGES FROM ANYTHING, FROM SOMETHING THAT MAY BE ABLE TO BE DECIDED UPON, UM, IN MAYBE AN HOUR OR LESS, IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD TAKE YOU HOURS TO ANALYZE THE INFORMATION ON THE APPLICATION AT HAND. UM, YOU MAKE A DECISION AFTER, GIVEN WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IN THE DOCKET, AND THEN YOUR DECISION CERTAINLY ISN'T MADE TILL ALL EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY'S BEEN PRESENTED TO YOU AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, I THINK THAT'S ABOUT IT. ONCE AGAIN, I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU AS A CITIZEN OF DALLAS. UM, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR VOLUNTEERISM VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MR. LONG QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? MR. VICE CHAIR? AGNES, MR. LONG, UH, AS, UH, I SAID I, I'VE SAT ON THIS BOARD SINCE 2011. UM, OVER TIME, THE THINGS, THERE ARE MANY THINGS I APPRECIATE ABOUT WHAT YOU DID, BUT IN, IN TERMS OF, UH, THE TIME WE HAVE HERE, UM, YOU PATIENTLY WALKED THOSE OF US WHO WERE NEW, UH, THROUGH THE PROCESS, UM, AND HANDLED THE SOPHISTICATED SUBTLETIES. I ALWAYS APPRECIATED THAT, UM, THAT MANY TIMES IT FELT LIKE YOU WERE THE ONLY PERSON IN THE BUILDING NOT ATTEMPTING TO MANIPULATE THE BOARD. AND MANY PEOPLE'S JOB IS TO MANIPULATE, UH, UH, THIS BOARD, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT YOURS. AND, AND, UH, I KNOW THERE'S PRESSURE FROM EVERYWHERE. AND, UH, UH, BECAUSE OF THAT, I, I LEARNED HOW TO, I I LEARNED HOW TO OPERATE AS, AS, AS WELL AS I CAN IN GOOD FAITH. UM, UH, AND, AND YOU, YOU GAVE ME A, A SET OF TOOLS, UM, THAT I TRY AS BEST I CAN TO, UM, TO ALLOW FOR MY, MY COLLEAGUES TO LEARN IN THE WAY THAT I DID. AND THAT WAS IN NO SMALL PART BECAUSE OF YOUR PATIENCE. SO THANK YOU AND GOOD FAITH. IT WAS VERY MUCH MY PLEASURE BEING PART OF THE SERVICE INDUSTRY HERE AT THE CITY DALLAS FOR 34 YEARS. I ENJOYED IT VERY MUCH. AND SEE, I SAID 25, IT WAS 34. 34. OH MY GOSH. WELL, ALL OF WHICH, SOME OF WHICH WAS ACTUALLY NOT WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THE FIRST 1986 TO 94 WAS WITH LONG RANGE PLANNING. I WAS INVOLVED WITH THE GROWTH POLICY PLAN, WHICH WAS THE PLAN. THAT'S WAS THE THING IN THE LATE EIGHTIES THAT WE HAVE NOW WITH FORWARD DALLAS , YOU KNOW, PLANS CHANGE . AND THE, THE HIT PARADE THING AT THE PLANNERS IN 1986 WAS THE GROWTH POLICY PLAN, WHICH ACTUALLY CHANGED 51 TO 51 A. WE GOT A WHOLE NEW ZONING CODE, AND I WAS INVOLVED IN THAT PROCESS. THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER. UH, THANK YOU MR. LONG. I'D LIKE TO JOIN THE SEVERAL VOICES TO, UM, COMMEND YOU FOR THE GOOD WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO FOR THE BOARD. UH, MY QUESTION IS, I JUST WANT TO KNOW, BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHAT THE MOST CHALLENGING, UH, PART OF THIS JOB IS THAT WE HAVE TO NOTE. WELL, I MEAN, THIS IS [00:30:01] MY OPINION. I, I KNOW THAT FROM MY EXPERIENCE, I THINK THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THE, THE, THE TEXAS LAW ALLOWS US TO FREE TO CONSIDER DISCONTINUANCE OF NON-COMPLIANT NON-CONFORMING USES. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ON HOLD, UM, KNOW THAT IT IS, I THINK CURRENTLY BECAUSE THE CITY COUNCIL IS REWRITING THAT PROCESS. YEAH, I DO THINK THAT PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING THINGS THAT THE BOARD SAW IN MY, UH, AS A STAFF PERSON WAS THE, UM, CONSIDERATION OF APPLICATIONS MADE BY A PERSON TO DISCONTINUE A NON-CONFORMING USE. BECAUSE THAT WAS ACTUALLY A PROCESS WHERE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WAS CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT THE NON-CONFORMING USE BROUGHT BY A NEIGHBOR OR A CITIZEN OR, UM, SOMEONE ELSE, UM, HAD AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTY. AND IF THEY MADE THAT CONCLUSION AT A PUBLIC HEARING, THEN THEY HAD TO SET AT A LATER DATE A TERMINATION OR A COMPLIANCE DATE IN WHICH THE NON FORM USE HAD TO CONTINUE BASED ON HOW MUCH OF THE INVESTMENT HADN'T BEEN RECOVERED. THAT WAS ALWAYS KIND OF A COMPLICATED THING WHERE IT WAS TAKING, IT WAS A PROCESS WOULD, UM, BE POTENTIALLY TAKING AWAY SOMEONE'S USE OF A PROPERTY. AND I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD THAT DR. GLOVER IN QUITE SOME TIME. I DON'T RECALL IT. UM, I DUNNO, SOME OF THE OLD TIMERS, THAT'S NOT DISPARAGING SOME OF, THERE'S A LOT OF EXPERIENCE. WE'LL SAY IT THAT WAY. SO IT'S BEEN, BUT RIGHT NOW I THINK IT'S ON HOLD BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THERE'S A MONETARY OR IT'S USE THAT'S EXTENDED. SO, UH, BUT THE BOARD IN THE LAST THREE YEARS HASN'T HAD A NONCONFORMING AMORTIZATION CASE. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, UM, IN THE LATE NINETIES WITH A NUMBER OF SEC DANCE HALLS AND SOBS, ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE ESTABLISHMENT USES. AND THEN IN THE EARLY AUGHTS, I THINK THERE WAS A WHOLE NUMBER OF THEM FILED FOR MOTELS, NONCONFORMING MOTELS. SO I JUST REMEMBER THERE WERE CERTAIN WAVES OF ALCOHOLIC ESTABLISHMENT USES IN THE LATE NINETIES. AND THEN ANOTHER WAVE OF MOTEL NON FORMING MOTEL USES IN THE EARLY OPS. MR. SINGTON, MR. LONG THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. AND YOU KNOW, AS ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, UM, IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU. UM, QUESTION, I, I, I ACTUALLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU WERE, UM, UH, PART OF THE ORIGINAL PLANNING FOR, YOU KNOW, LONG-TERM PLANNING, UM, UM, MEMBERS OF THE, FOR THE CITY. BUT AS YOU THINK BACK ON THOSE TIMES, AND THEN LOOKING FORWARD TO WHAT'S, UH, WHAT FORWARD DALLAS BRINGS, HOW DO YOU JUXTAPOSE THOSE TWO, UM, IDEALS, UM, IN YOUR OPINION, UM, AND THE GROWTH FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS? WHAT'S YOUR, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS? WELL, I MEAN, THE 34 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS, I JUST THINK THAT, UM, URBAN PLANNERS LIKE TO, UM, REASSESS DIFFERENT PLANS AFTER A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS. AND SO IT WAS THE GROWTH POLICY PLAN IN THE LATE EIGHTIES, AND THEN IT WAS THE DALLAS PLAN IN THE MID NINETIES AND THEN FORWARD DALLAS, I THINK THEN IS REPLACING, I GUESS, WHAT WAS THE DALLAS PLAN? I THINK THESE THREE PLANS ALL SHARED A, A THREAD IN THAT THEY ARE NOT CHANGING ZONING. THEY ACT AS A GUIDE TO CITY COUNCIL. JUDGING WHETHER OR NOT A ZONING REQUEST APPLICATION TO THEM IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY. UM, THEY, THE GROWTH POLICY PLAN, THE DALLAS PLAN AND FOR DALLAS ARE ALL JUST GUIDES THAT THE, THE, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING STAFF USE IN FORMING A RECOMMENDATION ON A ZONING APPLICATION. I WAS ACTUALLY KIND OF RELIEVED WHEN I FINALLY GOT THE INFORMATION AS A CITIZEN THAT IT WASN'T A CHANGE IN ZONING PLAN. IT'S A GUIDE FOR THE CITY COUNCIL TO MAKE DECISIONS ON INDIVIDUAL ZONING APPLICATIONS MADE TO THEM. THANK YOU, MS. LONG. THANK YOU, MR. SINGTON. ANYONE ELSE QUESTIONS? MR. CANNON? UH, YES. NOT A QUESTION, BUT I DO WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T SAY MY PERSONAL THANK YOU, UH, MR. LONG, UM, I DON'T THINK MANY PEOPLE ON THE SPORT KNOW, BUT I AM ACTUALLY SECOND GENERATION CANNON ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND YES, YES, YES. SO I HEARD YOUR NAME IN OUR HOUSEHOLD PROBABLY EIGHT, NINE YEARS AGO. AND IT WAS EXCELLENCE, EXCELLENCE IN YOUR LEADERSHIP, YOUR GUIDANCE TO, UM, MY NOW LATE MOTHER WHO WAS ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. BUT I AM SO FORTUNATE, I THINK ALL OF US AGREE THAT, UM, YOUR GUIDANCE HERE AS FAR AS, UM, YOU KNOW, VOLUNTEERS FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS TO REALLY, UM, EXECUTE THE CODE IN A WAY THAT'S FAIR FOR ALL. SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU MUCH APPRECIATION. AND I DID NOT KNOW THAT MR. CANNON, YOU [00:35:01] SAID IT WAS YOUR MOTHER THAT SERVED. WOW, OKAY. YOUR MOTHER IS WIN OF FRED CANNON, WONDERFUL WOMAN NAMED WINNIE CANNON. SHE WAS ACTUALLY A PANEL VICE CHAIR IN WINIFRED OR WINNIE, OR BOTH ROBERT AGNES WOULD REMEMBER WINNIE CANNON, WINNIE CANNON, AND MS. GABO MIGHT, ALTHOUGH I THINK, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THREE PANELS AND AT THE TIME OUR CHAIRMAN DIDN'T HAVE A COLLECTIVE ALTOGETHER MEETING. I THINK THE, THE PANEL A, B AND C AT THAT TIME PRETTY MUCH WORKED SEPARATELY. A A AND SEE, I'M, I GOTTA RESPOND TO THAT. THE DESIGN OF THE THREE PANELS IS TO OPERATE INDEPENDENTLY, BUT ALSO WITH SOME LEVEL OF CONSISTENCY. IT'S NOT, ONE SHOULDN'T TELL THE OTHER HOW TO RULE, BUT WE WANNA HAVE A CONSISTENT PROCESS SO WE HAVE CONSISTENT STANDARDS AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO, BUT PART OF BRINGING THIS WHOLE GROUP TOGETHER ANNUALLY OR TWICE ANNUALLY IS AGAIN, TO MAKE SURE OUR RULES ARE CONSISTENT CALENDAR AND PROCESS. SO THANK YOU MR. LONG. I WILL JUST, I WANT TO END BY ONCE AGAIN SAYING THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE TO US AND, AND YOUR VOLUNTEER AND CIVIC-MINDED EFFORTS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, STEVE. WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU MR. LONG. OKAY. UH, MS. BOARD SECRETARY, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS? NO, THE SPEAKERS REGISTER. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU FOR THE TWO GENTLEMEN COMING TO SPEAK WITH US. WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. UM, I'M GONNA GO TO MR. HOPKOS FOR A MOMENT. EACH MEMBER OF THE BOARD INTRODUCED THEMSELVES, SO LUCKY YOU, YOU GET THE FLOOR NOW TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF, UH, NOT WHAT DISTRICT YOU'RE FROM OR APPOINTED, BUT GENERAL, UM, LOCATION AND OR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, MY NAME IS MICHAEL OVITZ. I'M CELEBRATING MY FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF BEING ON THIS BOARD TODAY. MY FIRST MEETING WAS THIS MEETING A YEAR AGO. UM, FABULOUS. IT'S BEEN VERY INTERESTING AND A LOT OF FUN AND, UM, UH, CHALLENGING AS I'M SURE ALL OF YOU ALSO HAVE FOUND FOR YOURSELVES. UH, I LIVE IN FAR FAR NORTH DALLAS AND DENTON COUNTY. THAT'S HOW THERE ACTUALLY IS PART OF DALLAS AND DENTON COUNTY. UH, I THINK MY HOUSE MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE THAT'S THERE, BUT, UM, UH, SO IT'S QUITE A WAYS TO GET DOWN HERE. I, I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING LATE. I WAS A LITTLE, UH, LATE GETTING AT GETTING STARTED THIS MORNING. BUT, UM, UH, I'VE LIVED IN DALLAS SINCE 19, UH, 78. AND, UM, THIS IS MY FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE, UH, TO SERVE THE CITY IN SUCH A CAPACITY. UM, I, UH, RETIRED FROM A CAREER AS AN ACTUARY A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO AND NOW, UM, IN A RETIREMENT BUSINESS, UH, IN THE ELECTRICITY BUSINESS. AND SO, UM, UM, HAVE A WIFE AND A DAUGHTER WHO'S A SOPHOMORE IN COLLEGE, UM, WHICH IS EXPLAINS A LOT OF MY GRAY HAIR AND, UH, AND I'M GLAD TO SERVE WITH Y'ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. WE APPRECIATE IT. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SECTION OF OUR AGENDA IS SPEAKERS. UM, ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED WAS ROBIN BENTLEY, THE INTERIM ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER. UM, MS. LOU TOLD ME YESTERDAY THAT SHE DID KNOW IF MS. BENTLEY WAS GONNA BE ABLE TO JOIN US TODAY. SO WE'RE GONNA GO DIRECTLY TO EMILY LOU, WHO'S THE DIRECTOR, DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, MS. LIU. GOOD MORNING. UM, CHAIRMAN NEWMAN AND VICE CHAIRS AND BOARD OF THE, UH, ZONING ADJUSTMENT. UM, AGAIN, MY NAME IS EMILY LIU. I'M THE NEW DIRECTOR FOR THE NEW DEPARTMENT. I, UH, MOVED TO THE CITY OF DALLAS IN MAY, SO THAT'S ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO. UM, PRIOR TO THAT, I LIVED AND WORKED AND RAISED A FAMILY IN KENTUCKY. UM, LAST YEAR, MY YOUNGEST WIFE, MY BABY, DECIDED AFTER COLLEGE TO MOVE TO DALLAS. GUESS WHAT? A PARENT MAY FOLLOW . SO THAT'S THE MAIN REASON I'M HERE IN DALLAS. BUT I'M REALLY THRILLED. UM, DALLAS IS SUCH A DYNAMIC, DYNAMIC AND DIVERSE COMMUNITY. JUST TWO DAYS AGO I WENT TO CLATON WARREN PARK. AMAZING. REALLY, REALLY A LOT OF ACTIVITY. SO, UM, I REALLY LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE IN DALLAS. UM, TODAY I'M GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION. I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I WILL PREFER MORE LIKE A CONVERSATION THAN A FORMAL PRESENTATION. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I WANTED TO COME HERE TO TALK TO YOU A WHILE AGO AND CHAIRMAN NEWMAN SAID, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT UNTIL THE ANNUAL MEETING. SO I'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD [00:40:01] TO THIS DAY FOR A FEW MONTHS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, SO LET ME INTERJECT HERE AGAIN, MEMBERS THAT IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION AS SHE'S PRESENTING THROUGH HER POWERPOINT AND OR MR. POOL THAT'S WITH HER, PLEASE JUST GET MY ATTENTION AND I WILL GENTLY INTERRUPT BECAUSE I WANT THE INTER WE, THE VALUE IS THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT AND THAT WE BASICALLY HANDLE AND ARE, ARE SUPPORTED AND THIS INTERACTION HERE. SO JUST GET MY ATTENTION AND I'LL GENTLY INTERRUPT. THANK YOU, MS. LU. THANK YOU. UH, SO TODAY, UH, I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE GONNA MAKE PRESENTATION ABOUT, UH, THE A NU, UH, REPORT. SO WITH ME, THERE'S NO STRANGER, JASON POOLE. UH, HE'S BEEN OVERSEEING THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT AND A FEW OTHER DIVISIONS, UM, IN THE DEPARTMENT FOR A WHILE. HE'S BEEN DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB, SO WE HAVE TO BORROW HIM. AND, UH, SO HE IS ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, INTERIM ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR ANOTHER DIVISION, UH, FOCUSING ON CUSTOMER SERVICE, BUT HE'S VERY GRACIOUS. HE CONTINUE TO WORK ON, UM, ON, ON THE BOARD OF JE AS WE SPEAK. AT THE SAME TIME, WE ALSO APPOINTED INTERIM, UM, ADMINISTRATOR, UH, SARAH MAY, UH, I THINK SHE IS HERE, SO SHE, SO SARAH, SO SINCE YOU'RE GONNA INTRODUCE HER, COME ON AROUND A SECOND. SARAH, COME ON. COME ON. I'M GONNA PUT HER ON, PUT HER ON THE SPOTLIGHT. UH, SINCE YOUR BOSS'S BOSS'S BOSS JUST INTRODUCED YOU, IF YOU'D GO TO THE MICROPHONE AND JUST REINTRODUCE YOURSELF AND THANK YOU. I'M GLAD YOU DID THAT. SURE. JUST FROM THE TOP, JUST LIKE AS A PERSON, JUST A BRIEF. HELLO AND SO THAT THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE. HI EVERYBODY, MY NAME IS SARAH MAY. UM, I'VE WORKED AT THE CITY FOR, IT'LL BE 18 YEARS IN JANUARY, AND, UM, I'VE BOUNCED AROUND, UM, FROM LIKE THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES SIDE TO THE PLANNING SIDE, IT'S ABOUT 50 50 TIME IN EACH PLACE. I STARTED AS A ZONING PLANS EXAMINER. SO, UM, I WAS TODD SEN'S ALTERNATE, UH, FOR ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS AND, UH, BEING THE, THE TODD DIRKSEN WHEN HE WAS OUT FOR THE BOARD. AND STEVE EVEN TRAINED ME, UH, WHEN HE WAS, UH, RETIRING. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOOD TO BE BACK. SO NICE TO SEE Y'ALL AGAIN. THANK YOU. PERFECT. THANK YOU SARAH. OKAY, MS. LU. OKAY, NEXT SLIDE. WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND DO IT. I'M JUST SAYING, NEXT SLIDE, . OKAY. SO TODAY, UH, THERE'S, UH, UH, QUITE A FEW SLIDES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT FOCUSING, UM, ON THE DEPARTMENT AS A WHOLE, THAT'S MY ROLE. AND ALSO JASON GONNA TALK ABOUT, UM, THE DATA, THE GOALS, AND ALSO A LOT OF CHARTS, METRICS. SO WE'LL START WITH THE PLANNING DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT AS A WHOLE. UM, SO ABOUT FOUR MONTHS AGO, UH, THE TWO DEPARTMENT MERGED INTO, ONE USED TO BE CALLED PLANNING AND URBAN DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I BELIEVE THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT, UM, WAS IN ONE DEPARTMENT AND THEN ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. BUT ANYWAY, WE ARE ALL TOGETHER NOW. SO THE NEW DEPARTMENT IS PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. THAT'S THE NAME OF THE NEW DEPARTMENT. IT'S ACTUALLY A TREND ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I'VE BEEN TALKING TO OTHER PLANNING DIRECTORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. THERE IS A TREND THAT MERGING THE PLANNING FUNCTION AND THE PERMITTING FUNCTION, THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT SO THAT WE CAN BE EASIER TO STREAMLINE THE PROCESS, TO BREAK DOWN THE BARRIER AND SILOS. THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. UH, NEXT ONE PLEASE. ANOTHER ONE. UM, SO IS, UH, THE DEPARTMENT INCLUDED FOUR, UH, DIVISIONS, BUT WE ALL WORK TOGETHER. UH, THE PLANNING DIVISION, UM, IS, UH, HEADED BY DEPUTY. EACH DIVISION HAS A DEPUTY DIRECTOR. SO PLANNING IS HEADED BY ANDREA GILLIS. UH, THAT'S, UM, I'M GOING TALK A BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY THAT, UH, TEAM DOES AND EACH OF THE DIVISIONS, UH, AND THE ZONING DIVISION. ANDREA, UH, AND SHE, YEAH, SHE'S HERE TOO. SHE IS THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR THAT DIVISION. UM, AND ALSO PERMITTING, UH, SAM IS THAT HE'S, HE'S, UM, UH, TAKING NEW RESPONSIBILITY. HE USED TO BE IN CHARGE OF OLD ENGINEERING, UH, BUT NOW HE ALSO TAKE OVER THE PERMITTING RELATED FUNCTION, COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL THAT WAS HANDLED BY A DIFFERENT PERSON BEFORE. AND [00:45:01] ALSO, UH, LAST ONE, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT IS CUSTOMER AND TEAM. EXCELLENT TEAM. UH, THAT'S VERNON YOUNG, UH, SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PLANNING. UM, UH, EVERYBODY PROBABLY AWARE OF, UH, RECENTLY, ABOUT A MONTH AGO, CITY COUNCIL FINALLY ADOPTED THE FORWARD DALLAS 2.0 AS, UM, MR. LONG MENTIONED EARLY, UH, THAT IS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH IS A GUIDE, A POLICY, AND A RECOMMENDATION, UH, IS NOT ZONING, IS NOT LAW. UM, SO THAT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR COMMUNITY PLANNING FUNCTION IS HOUSED UNDER PLANNING. THEY ALSO HAVE, UH, URBAN DESIGN, HISTORICAL PRESERVATION, AND THE CONSERVATION FUNCTION UNDER THAT GS UH, DATA AND RESEARCH THAT USED TO BE HOUSED UNDER DEVELOPMENT SERVICE THAT HAS BEEN, UH, MOVED UNDER PLANNING. SO EACH OF DIVISION ARE DOING A LITTLE DIFFERENT. UM, SO THERE'S A LOT OF DATA AND RESEARCH. THE MAPPING, UH, THAT'S ALL UNDER A NEW LEADERSHIP RIGHT NOW. MS. LIU, LET ME, UH, THANK YOU. I'M, I'M GONNA ENCOURAGE, AGAIN, QUESTIONS AS WE GO. WE HAVE STRUGGLED OVER TIME WITH THE ACCURACY OF DATA THAT WE GET OUT OF THE GIS DEPARTMENT, WHATEVER THAT IS. AND THE TANGIBLE EXAMPLES OF THAT IS EACH MONTH, EACH PANEL, SO THAT'S THREE TIMES A MONTH, WE HAVE CASES THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO CAMP, TO PANELS, AND THE STAFF UNDER MS DR UH, MILLER HOSKINS PREPARES A, A, A PRESENTATION AND IT HAS MAPS AND HAS A LOCATIONS WITHIN THE CITY AND THEN HAS AN AERIAL MAP, BUT THEN IT HAS THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS. WE RELY ON ACCURATE AND TIMELY INFORMATION, AND WE HAVE FOUND THAT THAT HAS LAGGED, THAT HAS BEEN OUTDATED. AND, UH, WE HAVE A CASE BEFORE US, AND THERE'S A PICTURE OF A LAND MAP, AND IT SHOWS A VACANT LOT, YET THERE'S A HOUSE BILL ON IT OR VICE VERSA, , THERE'S A HOUSE BILL ON THE, AND THE MAP SAYS IT'S A, YOU KNOW, SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THAT FUNCTION PROVIDES ACCURATE AND TIMELY INFORMATION FOR US TO MAKE AN ACCURATE AND TIMELY ADJUDICATION OF THAT CASE. WE'VE GIVEN THIS FEEDBACK TO NOT ONLY OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, BUT ALSO MR. POOLE, AND I THINK THEY'RE DOING WORKAROUNDS. UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS, WELL, DO WE NEED TO GO GOOGLE EARTH DOING OUR HEARINGS? AND IT MAKES THE ATTORNEYS NERVOUS BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY PRESENTED PER SE, AND OUR BOARD MEMBERS LOOKING UP ON THEIR OWN. BUT THE IMPORTANT THING FOR US IS TO SEE WHAT IS ON THE GROUND, WHAT'S THERE NOW. SO I JUST WANT TO REEMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TIMELY AND ACCURACY INFORMATION COMING OUT OF GIS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT FEEDBACK. UM, AS WE, UM, YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY, UH, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND, UH, JASON AND I ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY AND HOW WE CAN USE PROBABLY INFORMATION, INNOVATIVE, CREATIVE WAYS TO GET MORE LIKE UPDATE INFORMATION. BUT WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. UM, HOPE DR. GLOVER HAS A QUESTION. UH, AND THEN MR. CANNON, AND WHEN THIS IS NOT RAPID FIRE, THIS IS INTERACTIVE DR. GLOVER, UH, TO, UH, TO WATCH, UH, NEWMAN HAS SAID THE OTHER CHALLENGES WE ALSO FACE AS A BOARD IS THAT WE DO NOT KNOW AND HAVE ACCURATE ZONING STATUSES FOR THE DIFFERENT, UH, CASES THAT ARE PRESENTED BEFORE US. THERE HAVE BEEN INCIDENCES OR TIMES WHEN THERE ARE NSOS IN PLACE IN AREAS IT HASN'T BEEN TOLD TO THE BOARD. WE'VE MADE DECISIONS BASED ON THAT, AND IT, IT HAS BEEN A PROBLEM. SO WE WOULD LIKE THAT YOU WORK ON IT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE MOST ACCURATE ZONING FOR THE AREAS THAT COME BEFORE US. THANK YOU. WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK AS WELL. UM, AND, UM, AS I'M ALSO RELATIVELY NEW TO THE ROLE AND I ALSO MAKE SOME DISCOVERIES, BUT I'M VERY DETERMINED AND PLAN TO EXAMINE HOW WE CAN MAKE THINGS BETTER, UM, MOVING FORWARD. SO I WOULD REALLY, REALLY LIKE TO WORK WITH YOU ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS MOVING FORWARD, HOW WE CAN MAKE OUR DEPARTMENT BETTER. UH, WE SERVE THE CITIZENS, WE SERVE OUR, UH, CUSTOMERS. I REALLY WANT TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS FOR OUR DEPARTMENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MR. CANNON HAS A QUESTION. OKAY. FIRST OFF, DR. UM, DIRECTOR LOU, WELCOME TO DALLAS. UM, MY QUESTIONS GOING FOR THE, UM, THE MERGER OF THE TWO DEPARTMENTS. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS MORE OF A TREND OF, UM, MERGING PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT ACROSS THE COUNTRY. UM, CAN YOU TELL US LIKE WHAT HAS WORKED AS FAR AS, I GUESS, THE SYNERGIES OF THOSE DEPARTMENT MERGERS? AND THEN ALSO WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU'VE BEEN HEARING THAT MAY BE PITFALLS THAT, UM, HERE AT THE CITY OF DALLAS WE'RE WORKING SO THAT THAT INTEGRATION IS MORE SEAMLESS? [00:50:01] UM, IN TERMS OF MOVING FORWARD? LET ME TALK ABOUT THE POSITIVE SIDE. NOW EVERYTHING HAVE TWO SIDES. UM, IT'S DEFINITELY BREAK DOWN THE SILOS. UH, A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENS, UH, PROBABLY BECAUSE THE COMMUNICATION IS NOT THAT GOOD BETWEEN THE TWO DEPART, NOT JUST THE TWO DEPARTMENT, OTHER DEPARTMENT. SO I CAN TELL YOU BY MERGING, THE TWO DEPARTMENT WILL CONSTANTLY COMMUNICATE, UH, ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE PLANNING SIDE, UH, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE ZONING SIDE, AND TRANSLATE THAT AND MAKE THAT INFORMATION DIGESTIBLE AND DELIVER THAT TO THE PERMITTING SIDE. SO JASON CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. AND HE'S ACTUALLY HEADING A, UH, UH, A, UM, A GROUP OF, UH, UH, STAFF, UH, KEY STAFF THAT THEY MEET EVERY TWO WEEKS. EVERY TWO WEEKS, THE CITY, UH, COUNCIL RELEASES WARNINGS RELATED TO OUR DEPARTMENT. THAT'S AUTHORIZED HEARING, UH, THAT COULD BE A ZONING CASE, COULD A SUP, WHAT THAT ORDINANCE MEAN TO OUR PERMIT. BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THOSE, UM, CASES WILL GO TO GET A PERMIT. SO EVERY TWO WEEKS, WITHIN A DAY OR TWO, WE GET ORDINANCES. WE GET TO KEEP PEOPLE TOGETHER LOOKING AT THAT AND TRANSLATE THAT INTO THE DEPARTMENT. SO THOSE ARE VERY HARD TO DO, UH, WITH DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. SO WE ARE DOING A LOT OF THAT. WE HAVE ONGOING COMMUNICATIONS WITH DIFFERENT TEAMS. UH, EVEN BEFORE SOMETHING IS ADOPTED AT THE CITY COUNCIL, WE DISCUSSED THAT WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT HAS IMPACT DOWN THE STREAM WITH STAFF, WITH THE DEPUTIES, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, MANAGERS, EVEN AT THE STAFF LEVEL. SO THAT IS HAPPENING. SO I THINK THAT'S A GREAT THING. WE DO SEE COMMUNICATION IS MUCH BETTER. NOW, THERE'S SOME DOWNSIDE, YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME YOU MAKE CHANGE, CHANGE IS HARD. AND IT'S NOT JUST OUR DEPARTMENT TALKING TO DIRECTORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. SOMETIME YOU MAKE CHANGES PEOPLE DON'T LIKE, AND THAT COULD RESULT IN RETIREMENT TURNOVER, NOT LIKE PEOPLE RECOVER BECAUSE OF THIS, BUT THAT COULD BE A REASON. SO OUR ANCY RATE HAS BEEN HIGH FOR A LONG TIME. I'M JUST CHECKING ABOUT THIS THIS MORNING. IT'S MORE THAN 20%. SO I REALLY TELL YOU IT'S VERY HARD TO MAKE THE DEPARTMENT RUN AT, UH, OPTICAL LEVEL WITH A HIGH LEVEL OF, UM, OF, OF, UH, VACANCY. SO THERE WE'RE DOING A LOT OF REALIGNMENT BECAUSE WHEN I TALK THE GOAL, EVERYTHING WE DO HAVE TO ALIGN WITH OUR GOALS. AND THE CHANGES MAY RESULT IN SOME TEMPORARILY, UH, LITTLE BIT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, UNCERTAINTY. UM, AND I'M ALSO LOOKING AT EVERY PROJECTION. IS THIS PROJECTION NEEDED? IS THIS POSITION CRITICAL? AND I HAVE BEEN RECLASSIFY A LOT OF PROJECTION. FOR EXAMPLE, SENIOR PLANNER PROJECTION IN OLD, UH, IN THE LEGACY PLANNING IN URBAN DESIGN DEPARTMENT, MORE THAN 50% OF THAT PREVIOUS DEPARTMENT HAS ONE TITLE, SENIOR PLANNER, PLANNER, ONES TWO, PLANNER TWOS, ONE, AND THERE IS NO SUPPLY OF THE SENIOR. SO THAT'S WHY SO MANY SENIOR PLAN PROJECTION HAS BEEN WEAK FOR A LONG TIME. SO WHEN I LOOK AT THAT, THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT. TO BE WEAK FOR SUCH A LONG TIME, IT'S HARD TO FILL. IT REQUIRE AT LEAST FIVE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE. BY THAT TIME. A LOT OF PEOPLE ALREADY SETTLED IN A CITY, MAYBE HAVE FAMILY. IT'S VERY HARD TO GET SOMEBODY UPROOT AND MOVE HERE, UNLESS IT IS VERY HIGH LEVEL EXECUTIVE LEVEL, LIKE DIRECTOR, ASSISTANT DIRECTORS WAITING TO MOVE ACROSS THE COUNTRY OR THE OTHER THINGS ENTRY LEVEL. LIKE MY SON AFTER COLLEGE, HE'S READY TO MOVE TO ANOTHER CITY. DALLAS IS GREAT. ALL THE SPORT TEAM, EVERYTHING. HE LOVES IT. AND THAT'S WHERE YOU ATTRACT LOT PEOPLE. SO WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING LAST FEW, UH, MONTHS IS RECLASSIFY THOSE SENIOR PLANNERS TO ENTRY LEVEL JOB. I'VE BEEN CONNECTING WITH COLLEGE. WE HAVE GREAT COLLEGES IN DALLAS AND AROUND DALLAS. WE HAVE NOT BEEN ATTRACTING THE NEW GRADUATE. SO THAT MY STRATEGY IS RECLASSIFY SOME OF THE PROJECTION DOWN SO WE CAN ATTRACT PEOPLE AND THEN ALSO RECLASSIFY SOME OF THE PROJECTION UP. SO THESE SENIOR PLANNERS HAVE A CAREER PATH TOO, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S A BOTTLENECK. THEY CANNOT MOVE UP. SO MY GOAL IS TO CREATE A CAREER PATH FOR EVERY PROFESSIONALS IN OUR DEPARTMENT. SO WHEN THEY COME IN, THEY KNOW THEY HAVE A FUTURE. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF CHANGES. SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT LIKE THE CHANGES THEY'RE MAKING, BUT I THINK OVERALL, LONG TERM IT'S GONNA BE BENEFICIAL TO THE DEPARTMENT. YOU DID KNOW. YOU DID KNOW YOU WERE GONNA GET THAT ANSWER. , I'M SORRY, IT'S [00:55:01] A LITTLE LONG. OH NO, IT'S SO ON THE NOSE. NO, THAT'S, UH, I PLANNING TO BE HERE ALL DAY. . NO, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DIRECTOR LEE. THAT'S, I I'M COMPLIMENTING HIS QUESTION AND YOUR ANSWER. . OKAY. I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE GET A SLIVER OF SOME OF YOUR STRATEGY AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO, THE CHANGE YOU'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT. WE CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. WE CAN GIVE YOU FEEDBACK ON THINGS THAT WE ARE FRUSTRATED WITH, BUT ALRIGHT, SO CONTINUE ON. UM, AND SO I'M TALKING ABOUT ZONING. ZONING IS VERY IMPORTANT. ZONING IS LAW. IT'S A REGULATION, IT'S A REQUIREMENT. UM, BUT ZONING IS ALSO NOT PERFECT. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE VARIANCES. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE EXCEPTIONS. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, APPEALS, ALL OF THAT. UH, BECAUSE A LOT OF CITY LOOK AT THE ZONING, SOME GOOD ONES MAYBE, UH, CAN COVER 80%. A LOT OF THEM IS, YOU ARE LUCKY, JUST LIKE ADDRESS 60% OF THE ACTUAL SITUATIONS. THERE ARE A LOT LIKE 40% PROBABLY AGREE, NEED INTERPRETATION, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, IN BEFORE THE MERGER, ZONING IS SPLIT IN HALF. PART OF THAT IS IN THE PLANNING URBAN DESIGN. AND PART OF THAT IN DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DO NOT CONNECT VERY WELL. SO THE ZONING PART UNDER PUD WAS LIKE ZONING TAX AMENDMENT, WHICH SARAH WAS UH, HEADING THAT, UM, TEAM, YOU KNOW, ANY CHANGES TO THE TAX AMENDMENT, THAT'S HER TEAM AND ALSO THE MAP AMENDMENT AS ALL UNDER THE, UH, LEG LEGACY, POD. THE INTERPRETATION AND UH, REVIEW IS ACTUALLY UNDER DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I TELL YOU, THE FIRST FEW WEEKS WHEN I STARTED HERE, THERE WAS A CASE ALREADY GONE THROUGH ALL THE ZONING PROCESS, REZONING PROCESS, YOU KNOW, THAT TAKES MONTHS AND MONTHS. IT'S NOT EASY PROCESS PUBLIC HEARING. UH, CPC HAS, UH, CPC HAS TO REVIEW IT, MAKE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL AND FINALLY GOT APPROVED. AND A FEW MONTHS LATER GETTING A PERMIT AND THERE'S ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE REVIEW THAT AND MAKE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION AND DIFFERENT DETERMINATION. THEY DECIDED THIS ONE, GUESS WHAT, YOU NEED TO GO BACK FROM SQUARE ONE. THAT'S BECAUSE IS DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION. AND THAT'S HOW DEVASTATING COULD THAT BE. THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU'RE THE APPLICANT, YOU JUST GONE THROUGH ALL THE PROCESS, GET YOUR ZONING DONE, YOU ARE READY TO GET A PERMIT. AND ANOTHER INTERPRETATION SAID, YOU KNOW, WE INTERPRET DIFFERENTLY, YOU HAD TO GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE. AND THAT'S REALLY HIT ME PRETTY HARD. AND I THINK AS A DEPARTMENT, WE SHOULD ONLY HAVE ONE DETERMINATION, ONE INTERPRETATION. IF PEOPLE ARE DISAGREE WITH THAT, THEY CAN COME TO THIS BOARD AND YOU WILL MAKE A FINAL DETERMINATION. BUT THOSE CASES DO EXIST AT THE TIME, AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE TRYING TO RESOLVE. SO NOW THE ZONING, ANY ZONING FUNCTION THAT COMBINE INTO ONE, UH, ZONING, TAX AMENDMENT, ZONING, MAP, AMENDMENT, ZONING, INTERPRETATION, ZONING, CONSULTATION, ALL ENTER ONE UMBRELLA. I TOLD STAFF WE CAN ONLY GIVE ONE INTERPRETATION, UH, ONE UH, DETERMINATION. AND THAT'S REALLY, I THINK WILL HELP. SO THIS ZONING IS REALLY EXPANDED TO INCLUDE, UH, BOTH DEPARTMENT FUNCTION. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. WE ALSO HAVE THE PERMITTING. UH, THE PERMITTING DEPARTMENT, UH, RECENTLY, UH, HAD GONE THROUGH A LOT OF CHANGES AS WELL. UM, USED TO BE, UH, ENGINEERING IS SEPARATE FROM THE PERMITTING. UH, PERMITTING, UM, IS A SEPARATE UNDER THE SAME DEPARTMENT THOUGH. SO WE COMBINED ALL THE PERMITTING FUNCTION WITH ENGINEER FUNCTION. UM, SAM IS HEADING THIS. SAM IS NEW FOR THE PERMITTING, UH, BUT HE IS LASER FOCUSED, DOING A GREAT JOB SO FAR. UH, PERMITTING, WE DIVIDED UP INTO THREE TEAMS. ONE IS RESIDENTIAL. RESIDENTIAL IS DOING VERY WELL RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF, UH, THE SPEED. UM, AND, UH, COMMERCIAL, UH, WE STILL, UH, HAVE A VERY HIGH, UM, NUMBER OF DAYS IN TERMS OF HOW, UH, LONG IT TAKES US TO GET THE PERMIT OUT. THAT'S SOMETHING WE WORK DILIGENT RIGHT NOW TRYING TO STREAMLINE. UM, THE THIRD FUNCTION IS INSPECTIONS. ONCE YOU GOT THE PERMIT AND YOU STARTED TO CONSTRUCTION, UM, THE PERMIT, WE HAVE A PERMIT TO FILE FOUR DIFFERENT DISTRICT OFFICE. THEY GO IN AND MAKE A INSPECTION. UM, WHEN INSPECTIONS COMPLETE, THEN WE GIVE THEM, UM, A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY. SO THAT DEPARTMENT IS UNDERGONE, UH, HAVE GONE THROUGH A MAJOR CHANGES RIGHT NOW. AND THE LAST ONE IS TEAM EXCELLENCE AND CUSTOMER SUR UH, EXPERIENCE. THAT IS WHERE, UM, JASON'S ALSO WORK UNDER [01:00:01] THAT. THAT'S UNDER RN. YOUNG RN YOUNG HAS BEEN WITH THE CITY FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS. A LOT EXPERIENCE. SO THIS ONE WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS. ONE TEAM IS TEAM, EXCELLENT. WE'RE GONNA HAVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR THERE. WE DON'T HAVE ONE YET FOCUSED ON INTERNAL SERVICES. THOSE ARE HR AS I MENTIONED, THEY HAVE 21% VACANCY. THAT'S WAY TOO HIGH. SO I'M COUNTING ON THIS ASSISTANT DIRECTOR COME ON BOARD TO REALLY HELP US. UM, SO HR, BUDGET, EXPENDITURES, UH, AND ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT, UH, FLEET, WE HAVE A LARGE FLEET. SO ALL OF THOSE ARE INTERNAL SERVICES. AND THEN CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE IS VERY IMPORTANT. WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE DELIVER THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE. UM, AS YOU PROBABLY AWARE, UH, INTERIM CITY MANAGER, HER, UH, PHILOSOPHY HAS BEEN SERVICE, SERVICE FIRST. NOW THAT MEANS SERVICE IS MOST IMPORTANT, SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY, SERVICE TO OUR CUSTOMERS. AND NOW MEANS THERE'S A SENSE OF URGENCY. SO I'M TRYING TO RELATE THAT MESSAGES TO OUR STAFF. UM, AND JASON RIGHT NOW IS INTERIM ASSISTANT DIRECTOR WITH CUSTOMER SERVICE TEAM. THEY DO, UH, A LOT OF NOT ONLY JUST CUSTOMER SERVICE, BUT TRAINING. UH, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE TRAINING. AND ALSO WE'RE GONNA IMPLEMENT A NEW SOFTWARE CALLED ELA. UH, SO THAT'S SOMETHING, UH, IS ALSO UNDER THIS. THERE'S ALSO INCLUDING, UH, THE CALL CENTERS, UH, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE WALKIN CUSTOMER SERVICES, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT FUNCTION. UM, SO I EMPHASIZE TO MY STAFF AND MYSELF AND REMIND MYSELF, UM, WHY WE ARE HERE. WHAT'S THE REASON WHY WE HOLD THESE PROJECTIONS. SO ON A REGULAR BASIS, I TOLD MY STAFF THE REASON WE'RE HERE BECAUSE WE SERVE OUR CUSTOMERS. THE REASON WE'RE HERE, BECAUSE WE SERVE THE PUBLIC. THAT'S OUR REGION. UH, NEXT ONE PLEASE. SO WITH THE HELP OF OUR MANAGERS AND OUR STAFF, WE DEVELOP A MISSION STATEMENT. OKAY, THIS IS RELATIVELY NEW. THIS IS FROM THE NEW DEPARTMENT TOGETHER. THAT MEANS WE NEED TO COLLABORATE, WE NEED TO WORK AS A TEAM TOGETHER. WE'RE PLANNING AND BUILDING A BETTER DALLAS FOR ALL PEOPLE. AND I DID HEAR, UM, MR. LONG ALSO SAID, YEAH, WE'RE HERE TO SERVE OTHERS. WE'RE HERE TO MAKE DALLAS A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE, TO WORK, AND TO INVEST. SO OUR MISSION IS TOGETHER. WE ARE PLANNING ON BUILDING A BETTER DALLAS FOR ALL. UM, AND I'M VERY COMMITTED FOR THAT. UH, CURRENTLY WE HAVE 430 IONS. PURCHASE IS A VERY, VERY LARGE DEPARTMENT, UM, WITH A BUDGET OF $67 MILLION. UM, SO THE BUDGET JUST PASSED ABOUT A FEW WEEKS AGO. UH, VERY, VERY FORTUNATE. UH, EVERYTHING GOES MOSTLY IN THERE. UM, NEXT ONE, PLEASE. AND, AND MR. SINGEN HAS A QUESTION, IF WE COULD TAKE A PAUSE BREAK, MR. SINGTON, DIRECTOR LOU. UH, THANK YOU. AND SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT, UM, I DO WANT TO STEP BACK A COUPLE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK A COUPLE SLIDES, BUT I WANNA GO BACK TO A COUPLE POINTS. UM, I, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, I LIVE IN THE FAR SOUTHWEST, UM, SECTOR OF THE, OF THE CITY, UH, WHICH HAS, YOU KNOW, A GOOD AMOUNT OF STILL DEVELOPABLE, DEVELOPABLE, UH, LAND. AND, UM, A COMMON THING THAT I SEE, AND YOU'VE BEEN HERE IN THE CITY FOR, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN A YEAR, BUT A THING THAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST IS, UM, AND THIS IS A KIND OF A ZONING QUESTION. THE ZONING APPLICATION MAY BE INITIALLY, UM, UM, FILED, UH, FOR ONE PURPOSE, BUT THERE ARE OPTIONS ON THE APPLICATION FOR OTHER PURPOSES. LET'S, FOR INSTANCE, UH, ONE CASE THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR, EARLIER THIS YEAR, WHERE A ZONING APPLICATION WAS FILED AS RESIDENTIAL. THE COMMUNITY DIDN'T WANT THAT TYPE OF RESIDENTIAL, UH, MUL, MULTI MULTIFAMILY. AND THEN THAT DEVELOPER, UM, SOLD THE PROPERTY AND THE NEXT DEVELOPER, UM, TOOK THE OPTION FOR COMMERCIAL OR WAREHOUSE. AND THAT CREATED A HUGE ISSUE WITH THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T, THEY WANTED SINGLE FAMILY, UH, RESIDENTIAL WHERE THEY WOULD'VE, WOULD'VE BEEN HAPPY OR OKAY WITH SINGLE FAMILY, UH, RESIDENTIAL, UH, UH, BEING DEVELOPED. THEY DIDN'T WANT THE MULTIFAMILY, BUT THEY WOUND UP GETTING ANOTHER, UH, EXCUSE ME, ANOTHER DEVELOPER THAT WANTED TO PUT WAREHOUSING. IS THERE A PLAN, UH, IF YOU'RE AWARE, OR [01:05:01] CAN THERE BE SOME KIND OF SOLUTION TO THOSE TYPES THING TYPE OF THINGS HAPPENING TO COMMUNITY? BECAUSE NUMBER, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, IT IS ABOUT, UM, SERVING THE COMMUNITY AND THE RESIDENTS OF DALLAS. AND IF YOU HAVE, UM, DEVELOPERS COMING IN AND CONSTRUCTING THINGS THAT ARE NOT, THAT ARE NOT HARMONIOUS TO THE, TO THE PRESENT OR UH, UH, COMMUNITY, IT CREATES A, A FRICTION OR A TENSION, UH, WITH THE, WITH THE RESIDENTS OF DALLAS, THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPER AND THE CITY. SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS TO REMOVE THOSE OPTIONS OR IF IT, WHATEVER, BUT THAT CREATES AN ISSUE IF YOU UNDERSTAND, IF YOU UNDERSTOOD MY, MY, MY QUESTION, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY IS LOOKING TO DO TO RECTIFY THOSE TYPE ISSUES? LET ME LOOK AT THIS FROM A HIGH LEVEL. UH, WE TALK ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN EARLIER. THAT'S A GUIDE, A RECOMMENDATION. NOW WE HAVE FORWARD DALLAS 2.0 ADOPTED, IT'S LIKE A VERY HIGH LEVEL, AND WE USUALLY USE THAT AS A GUIDE FOR REZONING, RIGHT? WE JUST MENTIONED THAT FOR REZONING, FOR TAX AMENDMENT, MAP AMENDMENT, WE USE THE NEW COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHATEVER COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PLAYS AT THE TIME AS A GUIDE. AND, UH, SOMETIME, UM, IT'S SPECIFIC CALL OUT WHAT THAT, UH, USE ARE INTENDED FOR, FOR YOUR PARTICULAR CASE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE ON THAT ONE, BUT I WILL BE HAPPY TO PROBABLY ADDRESS WITH YOU, UH, SEPARATELY ONCE I GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION, IF THAT'S OKAY. BUT TECHNICALLY REZONING SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SOMETIME EVEN BETTER. THE AREA, WE HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD PLAN. THE NEIGHBORHOOD PLAN IS MORE DETAILED THAN A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, TELLS YOU ABOUT THE LAND, FUTURE LAND USE, WHAT KIND OF IN THIS CORNER AND THAT. BUT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS A GUIDE, BUT IT'S NOT AT A PARTIAL LEVEL. UM, SO, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT AND UNDERSTAND THE CASE A LITTLE BIT BETTER. THANK YOU, DIRECTOR. THANK YOU MR. TON. PROCEED. OH, I'M SORRY, DR. GLOVER, PLEASE. UH, TO ADD TO WHAT MR. TON JUST SAID, UH, WHAT I'VE COME TO UNDERSTAND OR LAND, UH, WORKING ON THE OTHER SIDE AS A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT IS THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAS BEEN USED AS A TOOL TO, AND TO BULLY COMMUNITIES WITHOUT A DEVELOPMENT PLAN. WHAT HAPPENS RATHER OFTEN IS THAT WHEN THERE'S A PLAN DEVELOPMENT, AND IT COMES BEFORE CPC AND THEY HAVE, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD DELIBERATIONS TO DECIDE WHAT KIND OF, UM, SERVICE OR WHAT KIND OF, UM, ZONE, UM, NOT, NOT ZONING, WHAT KIND OF STRUCTURES HAVE TO BE PLACED ON THE DEVELOPMENT. UM, AND THERE, THERE ISN'T, UH, A DEFINITE AGREEMENT. UM, CPC TAKES IT, OR THEY PUT THIS ON ADVISEMENT USUALLY. AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT IN THAT SPACE WHERE CPC HAS TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION, DEVELOPERS TEND TO COME TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR SOME KIND OF EXCEPTION OR A VARIANCE DENYING THE COMMUNITY THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE IN THERE. SO WHAT STRATEGIES DO YOU HAVE, UH, IN PLACE TO KIND OF WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY MORE INTENSELY TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS OR FIX THIS? UM, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. AND NOW I'M THINKING ABOUT MAYBE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER COMMUNICATION BETWEEN BOARD ADJUSTMENT AND CPC . AND WE'LL BE HAPPY WE HAVE EXPERTS IN OUR OFFICE. UH, AND I'LL HAPPY PROBABLY TO BRING IN ANOTHER EITHER QUICK SESSION ABOUT THE PROCESS OF, UM, YOU KNOW, CPC, I KNOW, UH, CHAIR NEWMAN SERVED THERE FOR A WHILE. THERE IS A SPECIFIC PROCEDURE LAID OUT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, UH, HOW THAT PROCESS GOING TO, UH, PLAY OUT AND CPC ONLY MAKE RECOMMENDATION. EVENTUALLY, CITY COUNCIL WILL MAKE A FINAL DETERMINATION. I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN, UH, AUTHORITY AND YOUR OWN, UH, OBLIGATION. CPC HAS ITS OWN AS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU HAVE. UH, BUT I'LL BE HAPPY MAYBE AT A DIFFERENT TIME TO, UM, ASK OUR EXPERT TO PRESENT, UH, THE CPC PROCESS REZONING PROCESS. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S KIND OF, UM, ALSO HAND IN HAND, UH, WITH, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU SEE HERE. I THINK I'LL BE HAPPY TO COME BACK AND, UH, TO PRESENT A BIT MORE ABOUT THAT PROCESS. WE'LL PROBABLY DO THAT. DR. GLOVER, UH, IT, IT, IT'D EITHER BE IN A FULL BOARD SETTING OR WE'D SET ASIDE AN HOUR IN EACH PANEL AT THE BEGINNING OF EACH PANEL, AND WE [01:10:01] GO THROUGH A ONE MONTH AND PANEL A, B, AND C AND AN HOUR OF TRAINING, SO FORTH. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S PART OF OUR GOALS TO DO. SO QUARTERLY TRAINING. SO, UH, WE WILL FI WE'LL TAKE YOU UP ON THAT SUGGESTION. YES, THAT OFFER. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S GREAT. SO WE KNOW YOU, WE HAVE A DIFFERENT BOARDS, UH, PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT BOARD ADJUSTMENTS. ONE, UH, CPC, ANOTHER ONE. WE ALSO HAVE LANDMARK COMMISSION. AND THEN THE BUILDING, UH, BOARDS. WE HAVE FOUR DIFFERENT BOARD. UM, THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST, UH, ANNUAL REPORT I'M GIVING. AND THEN I'M GOING TO GIVE, UH, A REPORT PRESENTATION TO CPC LANDMARK AND THE BUILDING CODE BOARD. SO, UM, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GOALS. WE HAVE SEVEN GOALS. FOUR OF THE GOALS ARE PROJECT SPECIFIC, AND THREE OF THEM ARE MORE LIKE A DEPARTMENT OVERALL. AND HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE, MR. NEWMAN? YOU, YOU CAN TAKE THE TIME. YOU WISH. YES, I, I, I CAN ELABORATE. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO LISTEN TO YOU AND GET SOME FEEDBACK ALONG THE WAY. THESE ARE THE SEVEN GOALS WE DEVELOP WITH OUR TEAM. UH, FIRST OF ALL, THE FORWARD DALLAS 2.0 HAS BEEN ADOPTED. IT'S ABOUT A MONTH AGO, ACTUALLY THE DAY AFTER IT IS ADOPTED WITH LOOKING AT, UH, HOW WE CAN IMPLEMENT THAT. SO WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR, THERE'S, THIS IS A 20 YEAR PLAN, OR AT LEAST WE'LL GOVERN, UH, CITY DALLAS, UH, GUIDE THE GROWTH, UH, FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS. SO IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENT. PROVIDE GUIDANCE, RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, SO, UH, WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR, WE'RE GONNA FOCUS ON THE IMPLEMENTATION SIDE IS ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE. THIS IS A HUGE COMPONENT OF THE, UH, FORWARD DOLLARS. UM, IT IS TO, UH, LOOK AT ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ISSUE AND ALSO RESIDENTIAL DESIGN. UM, STANDARDS. A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY NOT BE OPPOSED TO LIKE A DEVELOPMENT OR IN FIELD DEVELOPMENT ON THEIR BLOCK, BUT SOMETIME THE DESIGN IS NOT REALLY COMPATIBLE. UH, THE SKILL, THE MASS, NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURE STYLE OR MATERIAL. WE DON'T REGULATE THAT, BUT WE CAN REGULATE THE HEIGHT, UH, THE, THE SKILL, THE MASSING, THE SETBACK. SOMETIME THOSE NEW DEVELOPMENT, YOU PROBABLY SEE SOME OF THESE IN, UH, SOUTHERN DALLAS AND WEST DALLAS. SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT IS NOT REALLY COMPATIBLE. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, SOME WAYS TO ADDRESS THE DESIGN, UH, OF RESIDENTIAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY INFIELD DEVELOPMENT. UH, THE OTHER ONE IS WE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR FROM OUR RESIDENTS IN STATE OF DALLAS. THEY WANT DENSITY TO BE LOCATED AT NEAR, UH, TRANSIT, ORANGE DEVELOPMENT AND THE CORRIDORS. AND I FEEL, UM, UH, DALLAS, VERY FORTUNATE. WE HAVE A LOT OF, UH, LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM. I BELIEVE THAT'S THE LONGEST, UH, LIGHT RAIL LINES, UH, COMPARED TO ANY OTHER CITY IN THE COUNTRY. AND NOT A LOT OF CITY, UH, HAVE, UH, THE LUXURY TO EVEN TALK ABOUT THE LIGHT RAIL. BUT I THINK, UM, THE PROBLEM IS WE NEED TO GET SOME RETURN OUT OF THAT. SO BY BUILDING DENSITY AROUND A TRANSIT OR A TRANSIT AREA, AREA WILL HELP, UH, INCREASE USAGE OF THAT INVESTMENT, UH, TO INCREASE, UM, UH, THE, UH, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION USE. SO THAT'S SOMETHING, UM, EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE GIVING OUT THE FEEDBACK. WE NEED DENSITY AROUND TRANSIT, RN DEVELOPMENT, AND ALSO, UH, ALONG CORRIDORS, UH, PEOPLE TELL US THAT WE NEED MIXED USE AROUND THE CORRIDOR TO MAKE THE CORRIDORS MORE WALKABLE. SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE DOING AS A FOCUS, UH, NEXT YEAR FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF FORWARD DALLAS. UH, THE SECOND ONE IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE SPORT AS WELL, THAT WE'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE ZONING CODE REFORM DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE, OTHER CITY CALLED IT ZONING CODE. UH, EITHER WAY IT'S KIND OF INTERCHANGEABLE, AND THAT IS A VERY IMPORTANT, AS A MESS MENTIONED THAT THAT IS A LAW THAT IS REQUIREMENT, UH, THAT IS, UH, JUST BASICALLY TELLS YOU WHAT CAN BE BUILT WHERE, AND, AND HOLD THAT THOUGHT MEMBERS, UH, YOUR OFFICERS, VICE CHAIR, GABO, AGNES, AND I REGULARLY WATCH THE THROUGHPUT OF APPLICATIONS THAT COME TO THE BOARD. AND WE'RE AMAZED THAT SOME MONTHS IT'S VERY LITTLE OTHER MONTHS, IT'S GIGANTIC. AND WE TRY TO DEDUCE IS IS THAT AN INDICATION OF BUILDING? IS THAT AN INDICATION OF THE CODE BEING OUTDATED? SO THE PEOPLE ARE, HAVE PEOPLE, YOU INDIVIDUALS, PROPERTY OWNERS, WHETHER IT'S COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL, ARE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OF VARIANCE [01:15:01] BECAUSE THE CODE IS OUTDATED. I'M NOT SAYING IT IS, THERE'S NOT, FOR INSTANCE, IN DECEMBER, WE HAVE 16 CASES COMING. WHOA, THAT'S A LOT IN ONE MONTH, 16 IN DECEMBER. SO, AND I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. I, I THINK ONE OF THE INDICATORS IS THE HIGHER, THE NUMBER OF APPEALS THAT WE GET TO THE BOARD A LOT OF TIMES IS A FUNCTION OF THE CODE MAY BEING OUTDATED TO WHAT PROPERTY OWNERS THROUGHOUT THE CITY EXPECT OR WANT TO DO. NOW, I HAVE NOT TRACKED THIS. USUALLY IT'S MR. AGNES THAT TRIES TO CREATE THE CORRELATION BETWEEN THAT WHEN WE HAVE THIS DISCUSSIONS OF A SMALL AMOUNT VERSUS A LARGE AMOUNT. BUT WE SEE THAT OVER TIME, AND IT'S, IT'S, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVE 16 CASES IN DECEMBER. WE'LL FIND OUT WHEN WE ADJUDICATE THE CASES, BUT THAT'S A HIGH NUMBER FOR US IN ONE MONTH. AND THAT'S CASES THAT MAY HAVE MULTIPLE REQUESTS. SO IT COULD BE CASE 16 CASES WITH THREE REQUESTS EACH. OH MY GOODNESS. THAT'S 48 REQUESTS. SO ANYWAY, JUST GIVING YOU THAT, MR. AGNES HAS A COMMENT THAT, THAT THIS IS RELEVANT. MR. AGNES, SINCE, SINCE THE, UH, THE CHAIRMAN BROUGHT THIS UP, I, I, UH, NOW IS AS GOOD A TIME AS ANY, DO YOU SEE THE FACT THAT WE SEE, LET'S SAY OUR BREAD AND BUTTER CASES OR VARIANCES, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS KINDS OF THINGS, UM, WHEN WE HAVE SAY A LOT OF THOSE, DO YOU SEE THAT AS AN INDICTMENT OF THE ZONING CODE? OR IS THAT JUST SORT OF THE NATURAL THING? AND THE SECOND PART IS, IS THERE A WAY TO HAVE KIND OF A, ALMOST A CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT? UM, IS THERE A WAY TO, TO REACT, SAY, MORE THAN ONCE EVERY 10 YEARS AS WE TRY TO CHANGE OUR ZONING CODE? AND ARE WE KIND OF A, A, A LEADING INDICATOR OF WHETHER THE CODE IS WORKING? PERFECT TIMING FOR THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE I'M JUST ABOUT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. UM, SO AS ZONING'S LAW REQUIREMENT, WHEN PEOPLE CANNOT MEET THAT, THEY NEED A VARIANCE EXCEPTIONS. BUT SOMETIME YOU SEE THE SAME VARIANCE OVER AND OVER, THE SAME ACCEPTANCE OVER AND OVER, AND YOUR BOARD LOOK AT THIS. OH, THAT MAKES SENSE. SO GRANTED, YOU CONSTANTLY, GRANTED THAT'S AN INDICATION THE CODE DOES NOT WORK. THAT INDICATION, THE ZONING LAW NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. AS A MATTER OF FACT, JUST YESTERDAY, AS I'M HOLDING A STAFF MEETING, UM, TO TALK ABOUT VARIOUS ISSUES, UH, IN THE DEPARTMENT THAT SUBJECT CAME UP. I HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS LEADING THE CODE WRITING AND SOMEBODY WHO IS PRESENTING THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT. WE WERE TALKING RIGHT THERE, LIVE WITH EVERYBODY. LIKE WHAT KIND OF VARIANTS ARE YOU SEEING? WHAT KIND OF EXCEPTION ARE YOU SEEING? I LOOK AT, I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT MORE DATA TO SEE HOW THAT CAN FEED INTO THIS ZONING FOR REFORM. UM, LUCKILY CITY COUNCIL ALLOCATED MORE THAN $2 MILLION FOR US TO HER CONSULTANT AS WE SPEAK. WE ARE LOOKING AT THE ZONING CODE, HOW WE CAN CHANGE THAT. SO WE DON'T HAVE THOSE, UH, PROBABLY, UM, CONSTANT VARIANCES AND EXCEPTIONS. THE OTHER INDICATION THAT THE ZONING CODE MAY NOT WORK VERY WELL IS HOW MANY PUDS DO YOU HAVE IN EACH CITY? GOD, , CITY OF DALLAS IS ON THE TOP OF THE LIST ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF NUMBER OF PDS. WE HAVE OVER 1000. LAST TIME I CHECKED IS 1100 PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT. THAT TELLS ME THE ZONING CODE DOES NOT WORK. AND PEOPLE WANT TO BUILD THEIR PROJECT THE WAY THEY WANT TO DO. AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO GO AROUND IT. THEY HAVE TO CREATE THEIR OWN ZONING CODE. SO YOU TELL ME STAFF HAVE TO MANAGE 1100 ZONING CODE. IT'S LIKE WE ARE SERVING 1100 CITIES IN OTHER CITY. YOU HAVE ONE CODE, AND USUALLY THAT WORKS MAYBE TWO OR THREE PUD, THAT'S IT. AND ONE PERSON SPECIALIZE IN THIS PUD ONE PERSON SPECIALIZE IN THAT PUDI DON'T HAVE THE 1100 PEOPLE TO SPECIALIZE ONE PUD AT A TIME. AND BOY, THE MISTAKES IT POTENTIALLY CREATES, YES, BECAUSE THEN, THEN THE KIND OF SAYS DR. GLOVER WAS IN REFERRING TO EARLIER THAT YOU HAVE ONE INTERPRETATION HERE, AND THEN IT'S ANOTHER INTERPRETATION HERE. AND IF IT WAS SEPARATE DEPARTMENTS. SO I ABSOLUTELY SEE THAT, UH, VICE CHAIR GAMBLE HAS A QUESTION. SO AS YOU GO THROUGH, UM, THE REFORM IS THAT, CAN THIS CODE BE CHANGED WITHOUT INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY? I MEAN, CAN YOU MAKE [01:20:01] A CHANGE FROM A RESIDENTIAL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS TYPICALLY RESIDENTIAL TO MAKING IT COMMERCIAL OR IT'S BEEN SINGLE FAMILY AND NOW WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT MULTI-FAMILY WITHOUT GETTING INPUT FROM THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE THERE. AND IS THAT HOW FORWARD DALLAS IS GONNA BE USED? BECAUSE LIKE I, I LOOK AT LIKE AUSTIN AND THEY CHANGED, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD ALL THOSE SINGLE FAMILIES AND CITY COUNCIL DECIDED, OH, NOPE, ANYTHING THAT'S TORN DOWN NOW CAN BE MULTI-FAMILY. UM, AND I, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAN HAPPEN IN DALLAS? I THOUGHT THAT THAT HAD TO GO TO THE CITIZENS TO VOTE SINCE IT WAS, UH, WE, WE PLAN TO HAVE, UM, TREMENDOUS PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT. WE BARELY EVEN GET IT OFF THE GROUND RIGHT NOW. SO I'M TALKING TO YOU, GIVE YOU HEADS UP. THIS IS COMING. UH, THEY WILL BE, HAVE A TR A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT THROUGHOUT. THIS IS A MULTI YEAR. THIS IS NOT GONNA TAKE LIKE A FEW MONTHS OR EVEN A COUPLE YEARS. THIS IS GONNA BE A LONG TERM PROJECT. SO WE ARE GOING TO ROLL IT OUT HOPEFULLY EARLY NEXT YEAR. THIS IS JUST LET YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE HOPEFULLY, UH, EVEN, UM, A LOCAL FIRM HELPING US DURING THE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT. WE ALSO NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL TO REACH THE PEOPLE WHO TRADITIONALLY NOT AT THE TABLE. SO PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT IS A BIG PART OF THE ZONING REFORM. SO I'LL BE HAPPY TO COME HERE ON A REGULAR BASIS TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE WHERE WE ARE. AND OF COURSE, THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING. EVERYBODY HOPEFULLY WATCHING THIS WILL ALSO BE, UM, YOU KNOW, AWARE OF THIS IS COMING UP. AND THIS IS SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO GO OUT WITH DIFFERENT GROUPS, DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOOD, AND LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE NEW ZONING CODE. WE DEFINITELY NEED, UH, REFORM. NOT ONLY THAT, I THINK WE NEED A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF THE ZONING. MS. P*****K HAS A QUESTION. MS. P*****K? YES. WELL, IT'S, IT'S MORE OF A COMMENT. I'M REALLY GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE REFORMING THE CODE AS, UH, CHAIRMAN NEWMAN STATED THAT WE STRIVE FOR, UH, FAIRNESS FOR EVERYBODY TO KEEP A A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. BUT THAT BEING SAID, UH, THERE NEEDS TO BE, WHILE YOU'RE DOING THIS REFORM, AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE OPERATION AND PRACTICES OF THE, UH, CODE DEPARTMENT. BECAUSE IT'S COME TO MY ATTENTION ON A COUPLE OCCASIONS THAT ENFORCEMENT IS NOT REALLY ON AN EQUITABLE BASIS. IT DEPENDS PRETTY MUCH ON WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOUR SITUATION IS. AND AS, AS YOU DIRECTOR LOU SAID THAT TOGETHER, WE ARE BUILDING A BETTER DALLAS FOR ALL. SO I WOULD, UH, REALLY ENCOURAGE EVERY CODE VIOLATION TO BE TREATED THE SAME WAY IN THE SAME DISTRICT. SO IT SHOULD BE, IF IT'S ONE RULE, FOR ONE, IT SHOULD BE ONE RULE FOR ALL. WHETHER YOU ARE A SLUMLORD, WHETHER YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER, WHATEVER, WHOEVER YOU ARE, IT SHOULD, THE CODE SHOULD BE APPLIED EQUITABLY. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. EQUITY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR DEPARTMENT. EQUITY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE CITY OF DALLAS. UM, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT, UH, WE, WE WORK TOGETHER AND WITH ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. UH, WE DON'T HAVE THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PER SE IN OUR DEPARTMENT. WE JUST DO ZONING. BUT SOMETHING I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO CONNECT WITH OTHER DEPARTMENT AND, AND TRYING TO LEARN HOW WE ENFORCE. AND THEN, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO GET BACK WITH YOU AND GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION. THAT WAS, UH, UNDER DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT CALLED CODE, UH, ENFORCEMENT, UM, CODE DEPARTMENT. SO ABSOLUTELY, YOU ARE RIGHT. WE ARE REALLY, REALLY WANNA FOCUS ON EQUITY, UH, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, WHAT LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK, EVERYBODY'S TREATED THE SAME WAY. TOTALLY AGREE. CONTINUE, UH, DR. GLOVER. UH, THANK YOU. SO WHAT I'VE REALIZED, OR WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM, UH, BEING INVOLVED IN, UH, FORWARD DALLAS AND WEST DALLAS COMMUNITY VISION PROJECT IS THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL COMMUNITIES THAT DO NOT HAVE DEVELOPMENT PLANS. AND THAT IS WHERE IT STARTS. SO THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS ACTUALLY DEFINES WHAT KIND OF BUILDINGS OR WHAT KIND OF, UM, DEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE IN THAT AREA. NOW, THE CHALLENGE WE FACE IS THAT, UH, THE CITY COMES TO ACTUALLY PRESENT, UH, LET'S SAY, UH, DIFFERENT KIND OF ZONINGS FOR THE DIFFERENT AREAS BASED ON THE WAY THEY SEE, UH, THE CITY MOVING. BUT THE COMMUNITY ON THE OTHER HAND, ESPECIALLY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND, UM, UH, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT, UM, AUTHORITIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT, FIRST OF ALL, ZONING IS. UM, IS THERE A PLAN WHERE THERE WOULD BE A KIND OF STRUCTURE? BECAUSE I, I ACTUALLY SUGGESTED THIS, [01:25:01] UH, TO TRAIN COMMUNITY LEADERS ON WHAT ZONING IS AND WHAT THEY REALLY WANT TO SEE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. 'CAUSE WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THAT WE'RE INTERFACING WITH, UH, CITY STAFF AND THEY'RE PRESENTING TO US, OH, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT YOU TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE. BUT WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WANT TO SEE. AND WE AS COMMUNITY LEADERS DO NOT WANT TO BE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE WE ARE MAKING DECISIONS IN HINDSIGHT OR BASED ON ZERO KNOWLEDGE. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IN 10 YEARS WOULD'VE CREATED A PROBLEM FOR OURSELVES THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW. SO WHAT STRATEGIES DO YOU HAVE IN PLACE TO CORRECT THIS? UH, WELL, YOU HAVE A, A LOT OF QUESTION THERE. I THINK. UM, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS ABOUT LIKE, TRAINING, RIGHT? AND, UM, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB GOING TO THE COMMUNITY, CONNECT WITH THE COMMUNITY TRAINING, AND USE SIMPLE LANGUAGE. PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND. ZONING IS VERY COMPLEX. WE HAVE ATTORNEYS SPECIALIZED IN ZONING, SO IT COULD, THE LANGUAGE WE USE AND JARGONS, THINGS LIKE THAT COULD BE A BARRIER. SO WE ARE WORKING WITH, UH, DIFFERENT COMMUNITY MEMBERS, UM, AND WE'RE HOPING WE'LL, UH, DO A BETTER JOB INTO GOING TO THE COMMUNITY TRAIN. ANYTIME YOU HAVE SOMETHING, UH, YOU WANT ME OR MY STAFF TO BE THERE, JUST LET ME KNOW. I'LL BE HAPPY TO BE IN THE COMMUNITY, HAPPY TO LEARN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE TOWN AS WELL. SO DEFINITELY WE WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH YOU AND, UH, DO A BETTER JOB INTO, IN TERMS OF GOING TO THE COMMUNITY, TALKING ABOUT WHAT ZONING IS. AS I SAID, ZONING IS VERY IMPORTANT. HOW IMPORTANT IS, PEOPLE MAY NOT REALIZE. IT REALLY TELLS YOU WHERE YOU CAN LIVE, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU WORK, HOW YOU GO FROM YOUR HOUSE TO THE WORK. AND SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY UNDERSTAND UNTIL THERE MAY BE A PROJECT NEXT DOOR IN THE BACKYARD. AND THAT MIGHT BE, UH, NOT THE PROPER TIME TO TALK ABOUT ZONING. I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO BE A LITTLE BIT INTENTIONAL, UH, FROM THE EDUCATION PERSPECTIVE. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT ONE. AND I'LL BE FOLLOW UP WITH YOU TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WHERE YOU LIVE, AND TO BE, UM, MORE ACTIVE, ENGAGED WITH THE NEIGHBORS AND RESIDENTS AND COMMUNITY ASSOCIATIONS. THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER. CONTINUE. UM, SO, UH, AND WE'RE, AND WE'RE RUNNING ALMOST OUT OF TIME. I DON'T WANT TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT I'M SURE JASON HAS ALL THIS DATA TO GIVE US TOO. SO, YES, KEEP GOING. LET ME MOVE QUICKLY ON THE THIRD ONE. NO, THESE ARE, THESE ARE GREAT QUESTIONS. THESE ARE GREAT ISSUES THAT INDIVIDUAL BOARD MEMBERS, AND WE'RE TOUCHING ON A LOT OF ISSUES THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF OUR SCOPE OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BUT IT IS WITHIN THE LARGER FRAMEWORK OF ZONING. ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT'S THE HOUSE THAT WE LIVE IN, SO, OKAY. OKAY. THE THIRD ONE IS AMEND INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE. THIS IS A BUILDING CODE. UH, SOMETIME YOU PROBABLY DO SEE, UH, SOME OF THE, UH, THE CASES RELATED TO THAT. UM, THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, THEY RELEASE, THEY UPDATE EVERY THREE YEAR, WHICH IS GREAT. UM, AND THAT IS SOMETHING EVERY THREE YEARS. THE STATE OF DALLAS WILL ALSO LOOK AT THAT. THE GOOD THING ABOUT STATE OF DALLAS IS THAT WE JUST DON'T ADOPT INTERNATIONAL BU BUILDING CODE THE WAY IT IS. WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO AMEND THAT TO, UH, TO SUIT THE, THE CITY A LITTLE BIT BETTER. SO THAT IS ONGOING, AND THAT WILL TAKE, UH, A LITTLE BIT OVER A YEAR. UM, HOPEFULLY IN 2026 WE'LL GET A NEW, UH, BUILDING CODE ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AND THE FOURTH ONE, I'M GOING TO GO VERY QUICKLY. THIS DOES NOT, UM, KIND OF TOUCH WITH YOU. UH, VERY HIGH LEVEL OR, UH, CLOSELY IS IMPLEMENTED HISTORIAN CULTURAL PRESERVATION STRATEGY. WHAT THAT IS, THE CITY START TO HAVE A DIFFERENT APPROACH. IN THE PAST, WE ARE REACTIVE. IF YOU, IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATION DISTRICT, YOU SUBMIT APPLICATION, WE REVIEW IT, APPROVE IT. BUT THIS IS MORE PROACTIVE IN ADDRESSING HISTORIC PRESERVATION. UH, IN THE CITY, DALLAS, WE HAVE A LOT OF CULTURE AND HISTORIC, UH, ARCHITECTURAL RESOURCES IN THE CITY. DALLAS. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THEY'RE PRO, UH, WE ARE PROACTIVELY PROTECTING THEM AND MAKE, UH, ADAPTIVE REUSE, UH, FOR THE FUTURE. SO THAT'S WHAT THAT IS. I'M GOING TO TALK, UM, THE THREE, UM, GOALS THAT I HIGHLIGHTED A LITTLE BIT MORE. THAT'S A DEPARTMENT WIDE, UM, ONE OF THE STREAMLINED THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS. THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. I KNOW YOU ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SPEED OF THE REVIEW. AND I REALLY, REALLY APPLAUD THE, THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT. YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB, JASON. GOING TO PRESENT THE NUMBER TO YOU. YOU HAVE STREAMLINED YOUR PROCESS, REDUCED REVIEW TIME, THAT'S AMAZING. WE ACTUALLY USING THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT MODEL AND, AND THEN TRYING TO EXPAND THAT, [01:30:01] UH, TO OTHER TEAM AS WELL. UM, SO RIGHT NOW THE FOCUS IS ON COMMERCIAL PERMITTING AS WELL AT REZONING. SO THOSE ARE THE TWO BIG ONE. BUT I TELL STAFF NO PROCESS IMPROVEMENT IDEA IS TOO SMALL. ANYTHING YOU DO, IF YOU ARE A CALL CENTER, IF YOU'RE JUST A CUSTOMER SERVICE, THERE'S A ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, LET'S LOOK AT IT, LET'S IMPLEMENT THAT. SOMETIME. IT'S A SMALL IMPROVEMENT. THEY DO ADD UP AND MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. SO NO IMPROVEMENT IS TOO SMALL. UH, PRIMARILY WE'RE LOOKING AT THE COMMERCIAL PERMITTING AND ALSO REZONING. UH, LUCKILY RECENTLY WE WERE SELECTED BY TOYOTA PRODUCTION SYSTEM, WHICH IS A NONPROFIT, UH, CAN ASSOCIATE WITH TOYOTA. THEY ARE THE, UH, INTERNATIONAL LEADER IN TERMS OF REDUCING WASTE, UH, IMPROVE OUR PROCESS. SO WE HAVE BEEN SELECTED AS A PILOT PROJECT FOR THEM TO HELP US, UH, STREAMLINING THE COMMERCIAL PERMITTING, UM, UH, PROCESS. UM, AND ALSO USE MORE INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY, UH, TO ACTUALLY TO INCREASE, UH, EFFICIENCY, ACCURACY, AND TRANSPARENCY. ALL THREE ARE VERY IMPORTANT. SOMETIME WE DO HAVE TO RELY THE TECHNOLOGY. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, I'M A LITTLE SHOCKED COMING TO THE CITY OF DALLAS. OUR DEPARTMENT STILL USE A LOT OF PAPER, UH, BOARD ADJUSTMENT JUST RECENTLY TRANSITIONED INTO DIGITAL, BUT WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF PAPER APPLICATIONS. THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO CHANGE. WELL, I'M, I'M STILL A PAPER GUY, SO YEAH, BUT, BUT I HEAR YOU. BUT, UH, AND IT'S, IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WE ARE BROUGHT ALL OUR LAPTOPS IN TODAY, BUT WE ALL GENERALLY I THINK, RELY ON PAPER. BUT DO THE LAPTOP, BUT RELY ON PAPER. IT'S KIND OF IN THE MIX. YES. BUT YOUR APPLICATION IS NOW CAN BE SUBMITTED ONLINE, AND THOSE APPLICATION CAN BE UPLOADED ON THE WEBSITE. THE CITIZENS CAN SEE THIS WEEK WAS BOARD. JUST, THAT'S A TRANSPARENCY ISSUE. UH, YOU CAN, OH, YES, THAT WAS A KEY GOAL OF OURS LAST YEAR, AND A LOT OF THAT CREDIT GOES TO MR. POOLE AND MAKING THAT HAPPEN, BUT, OKAY. YES. WE'LL, WE'LL LET, I DON'T WANNA STEAL HIS THUMB, THUNDER. SO THAT'S IMPORTANT. NOT ONLY MOVING FORWARD, WE'RE TRYING TO FOCUS ON DIGITAL SUBMITTAL, DIGITAL REVIEW, BUT ALSO WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE BACKWARDS, HISTORIC DATA. WE NEED TO GET THEM SCANNED AND UPLOADED SO PEOPLE CAN ACCESS THEM EASILY INSTEAD OF HAVING COME TO CITY HALL OR TO RETRIEVE THOSE INFORMATION. SO THOSE ARE SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING ON. AND ALSO, UM, WE'RE LOOKING, ALSO LOOKING AT THE NEWEST TECH TECHNOLOGY, WHICH IS AI. UM, I'M JUST STARTING TO LOOK INTO THAT. UM, WORKING WITH AMERICAN PLANNING ASSOCIATION, UM, TO SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME SUPPORT FROM OUR ORGANIZATION TO HELP US, UM, USING AI TO HELP US INCREASE ACCURACY, UM, YOU KNOW, EFFICIENCY AND PUBLIC TRANSPARENCY, HOW WE CAN USE THAT. SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO US. UM, THE LAST ONE, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CHANGE THE CULTURE OF THE DEPARTMENT. SO FOSTER A CULTURE OF TEAMWORK. WE ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER, UH, AS A TEAM. AND COLLABORATION AND PROBLEM SOLVING AND CHANGE OF CULTURE IS TAKES TIME, IS DIFFICULT. PEOPLE LIKE TO DO THE WAY THAT YOU, BUT SO CHANGES IS NOT EASY, BUT WE ARE WORKING ON THAT. IT MAY TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO CHANGE THE CULTURE, TO BECOME A MORE, A TEAM FOCUSED, UH, COLLABORATE, NOT JUST INTERNALLY, BUT EXTERNALLY AS WELL, AND BE A PROBLEM SOLVER. SO THOSE ARE MY SEVEN GOALS. WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO TURN TO AWESOME. JASON, PAUL AND IU WOULD LIKE TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO COMMAND OUR BOARD ADJUSTMENT TEAM AS AMAZING TEAM. UH, DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS, UH, BRIAN KAREA, UM, DIANA, NORA, SARAH AND MARY WILLIAMS. YOU HAVE A GREAT TEAM. THEY'RE WORKING SO HARD DAY IN AND DAY OUT, TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING, UH, UP TO SPEED. UH, THERE IS NO DELAY, UH, IN THEIR DEPARTMENT. THEY REDUCE THE REVIEW TIME, THEY INCREASE, UH, THE TRANSPARENCY. AND I'M REALLY PROUD OF THE TEAM. THANK YOU. AND I WILL TURN TO JASON TO GIVE YOU ALL THE NUMBERS. THANK YOU, MS. LOU, MR. POOL. GOOD MORNING. BOARD MEMBERS, VICE CHAIRS, AND CHAIRMAN NEWMAN. JASON POOLE, PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, INTERIM ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. UH, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT AND, UH, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEAD THIS TEAM. I THINK, UH, THEY'VE DONE A WONDERFUL JOB AT, UH, AT, AT [01:35:01] PROGRESS, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WERE AFTER IS, UH, IS PROGRESS. UM, LAST YEAR, UH, WE INTRODUCED A NEW CALENDAR, UH, TO TRY AND REDUCE THE, UH, APPLICATION TO HEARING DAYS. THAT'S A TO H ON THIS, THIS SLIDE. UH, THE NEW CALENDAR PROPOSED A RANGE OF 53 TO 82 DAYS, DEPENDING ON WHEN WE RECEIVED THE APPLICATION. UM, THE AVERAGE FOR THAT, THAT CALENDAR WAS 68 DAYS AND A MEDIAN OF 67. NOW, IN LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS, WHAT WE ACTUALLY ACHIEVED FOR THE LAST FISCAL YEAR, UH, OUR APPLICATIONS RANGE FROM 53 DAYS TO 68 DAYS WITH AN AVERAGE OF 60 DAYS AND A MEDIAN OF 58 DAYS ON THOSE APPLICATIONS. ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING, THANK YOU. AND THAT, THAT IS A WAY THAT MS. LOU, WE CAN FACE OUR RESIDENTS, OUR CITIZENS, OUR PROPERTY OWNERS, AND SAY, OKAY, YOU'RE GONNA GET A DECISION IN TWO MONTHS OR LESS. AWESOME. SEEMS LIKE A LONG TIME, BUT WE'VE GONE FROM ALMOST 80 DAYS. I MEAN, SO WE, WE ARE MAKING VERY GOOD PROGRESS. HERE IS, UH, A CHART SHOWING THE COMPARISON BETWEEN, UH, FISCAL YEAR 2022 THROUGH 2023 AND FISCAL YEAR, LAST FISCAL YEAR, 23 THROUGH 24. YOU'LL SEE THE, THE BLUE IS 22 TO 23, AND THAT'LL CONTINUE THROUGHOUT THIS PRESENTATION. AND THE ORANGE IS 23 THROUGH 24. UH, OVERALL, WE HAD A REDUCTION IN THE TIMELINESS OF THE REVIEWS, UH, FROM APPLICATION TO HEARING DATE OF 18% WITH, UH, 73 OVER THE PRIOR YEAR. AND, AND AN AVERAGE OF 60 FOR, FOR THIS, THIS LAST FISCAL YEAR. AS FAR AS, UH, TRANSPARENCY, UM, AS, AS THE BOARD GOALS GO, UH, TRANSPARENCY BEING A, A PRIORITY, UM, WE DID TRANSITION TO A NEW WEBPAGE. UH, WE, PRIOR, PRIOR HAD TWO PAGES. UM, 100% OF THE DOCKETS WERE POSTED WITHIN SEVEN DAYS OR MORE OF THE PUBLIC HEARINGS. UH, WE PROVIDED WEEKLY UPDATES 100% OF THE TIME, AND WE PROVIDED ADDITIONAL UPDATES, A AS NEEDED. UM, THE NEW BOARD PAGE, UH, AS THE LAYOUT GOES, HAS BEEN, UH, A A LITTLE MORE USER FRIENDLY THAN THE OTHER ONE. UH, IT HAS, UH, CERTAIN MENUS THAT YOU CAN CLICK AS IT GOES THROUGH. IT'S GOT A COUPLE ADDITIONAL FEATURES. UH, ONE OF THOSE WE INTRODUCED THE, UH, LIVE PENDING CASE LOG, WHICH IS THE LAST TAB ON THAT, ON THAT WEBPAGE. UH, ON THERE WE HAVE AN UPDATED VERSION OF EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED AND IS IS UP FOR REVIEW AS IT GOES THROUGH. I CANNOT KUDOS YOU ENOUGH FOR THIS. WHAT WE'VE DONE, BOARD MEMBERS THROUGH THE STAFF, THROUGH THE BOARDS, BOARDS URGING A YEAR AGO, YEAR AND A HALF AGO, ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO, AND THROUGH THE STAFF UNDER JASON'S LEADERSHIP, IS WE'VE PROVIDED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A PROPERTY OWNER AND OR A NEIGHBOR IN A HOOD TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT CASE NUMBER ON THAT SIGN. YOU CAN GO TO THE WEBSITE AND LOOK UP EXACTLY WHAT THEY SUBMITTED TO THE CITY FOR THE REQUEST. IT'S NOT THE FULL CASE, BUT IT'S THE APPLICATION. IT'S A FAIRNESS ISSUE. I TOLD YOU EARLIER, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS ALL DAY TODAY. IT'S A FAIRNESS ISSUE. AND SO KUDOS CHECK MARK. KUDOS CHECK MARK. THANK YOU. UH, THE TEAM ALSO INTRODUCED A NEW NOTIFICATION SIGN WITH A QR CODE AS REQUESTED. UH, THE QR CODE, IF, IF SOMEBODY WERE TO SCAN IT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE WEBPAGE. UM, THESE ARE MORE CONDUCIVE AND MORE PROFESSIONAL LOOKING THAN THE LAST ONES AND, AND CONVEY ALL THE CONTACT INFORMATION AS WELL AS THE CASE NUMBER. UH, THE NEXT GOAL WAS, UH, CENTERS AROUND ACCURACY. UM, WE DID IMPLEMENT A QC PROGRAM FOR ALL CASE REPORTS WHERE ALL CASE REPORTS RECEIVE A SECONDARY REVIEW, WHETHER THROUGH THE SRC OR, UH, THROUGH THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, DR. HOSKIN, DR. MILLER HOSKINS. UM, EVERY, EVERY CASE REPORT HAS A SECOND SET OF EYES ON IT. UM, WE DID WORK TO ENHANCE OUR CASE REPORT DETAILS AND OUR PRESENTATION CLARITY, UH, THROUGH ADDITIONAL FACTS. AND, UH, AS YOU'VE NOTICED LATELY, THE, THE USE OF COLOR ON THE SITE PLAN COMPARISONS AND JUST INCREASED, UH, ILLUSTRATIONS IN THAT SENSE. UH, IN 20 22, 20 23, WE INTRODUCED THE USE OF A 360 CAMERA. UH, WE DID NOTICE THAT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES WITH RESOLUTION THERE AND SOME OF THE DARK SPOTS IN THE CAMERAS. UH, THIS YEAR WE DID REPLACE THAT CAMERA. AND, UH, THE, WITH A HIGHER RESOLUTION CAMERA THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE ISSUES WITH THE, UH, WITH THE SHADOWS AS, AS YOU'VE SEEN IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS AND MONTHS. UM, THIS CAMERA WAS UPGRADED, I BELIEVE, [01:40:01] THREE MONTHS AGO. AND HOPEFULLY WE'VE, WE'VE SEEN A, A BIG DIFFERENCE WITH THAT BOARD MEMBERS. NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GETTING NOTHING JUST STALE PICTURES TO A CAMERA WITH LOOKING THROUGH A WINDOW FRAME OR A WINDOW DASH TO ACTUALLY SEEING THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MAKE A DECISION ON, AND THEN GIVING US A MAP THAT SAYS, OKAY, THE VIDEO IS GONNA START HERE ON THIS INTERSECTION, AND WE'RE GONNA MOVE UP THE STREET, DOWN THE STREET AROUND THE STREET NIGHT AND DAY. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, IF A BOARD MEMBER SAYS, STOP, I WANT TO SEE WHAT'S ACROSS THE STREET. YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY TO MOVE THAT CAMERA. IT ALMOST SAYS, WHY DIDN'T WE DO THIS 10 YEARS AGO? BUT OKAY, IT'S HERE NOW. KUDOS AGAIN. THANK YOU. THE NEXT GOAL, TEAMWORK. UM, WE DID TRANSITION THE BOARD ALMOST ENTIRELY, UH, OVER THE LAST YEAR, UH, STAFF WISE, UH, WE, WE APPOINTED A NEW CHIEF PLANNER, DR. MILLER HOSKINS, AND, UH, OR EXCUSE ME, YES. AND BOARD ADMINISTRATOR BY THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER, UM, BY THE END OF THE THIRD QUARTER, WE HAD STAFFED THE ENTIRE TEAM, UH, WHICH INCLUDED TWO SENIOR PLANNERS, TWO SENIOR PLANS, EXAMINERS, OUR BOARD SECRETARY, AND THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR. UM, THEY ALSO, OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, PROVIDED TWO LUNCH AND LEARN TRAININGS FOR THE PUBLIC. ONE COMMENT THAT I WANNA REITERATE TO THE BOARD, THE CITY CODE AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE THAT CREATED THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DOES NOT SPECIFY A PROFESSIONAL TECHNICAL ANALYSIS BY THE STAFF. IT DOESN'T. IT SAYS SIMPLY THAT WHEN A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT REQUEST IS FILED, WE WITHIN 10 DAYS PRIOR TO A PUBLIC HEARING NOTIFY THE PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE 200 FEET AREA. IT DOESN'T SAY TO THE CITY OR TO THE BOARD WHAT TO DO WITH THAT NOTIFICATION. IT JUST SAYS, NOTIFY THEM. WE'VE TAKEN UPON OURSELVES TWO YEARS AGO TO UPDATE OUR RULES TO SAY, ONCE THEY'RE NOTIFIED, WE ASK THE STAFF UNDER DR. HOSKINS MILLER AND JASON TO PROVIDE THE TECHNICAL ANALYSIS AND NOW CAMERA AND THAT SORT OF THING. BUT LITERALLY, THIS IS OUR EXPECTATION, NOT SET BY THE STATUTE OR THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE. THIS NEXT SLIDE ILLUSTRATES, UH, A COMPARISON OF THE CASES REVIEWED FROM 2022 TO 23 TO 2023 TO 2024. THESE ARE THE, THESE, EVERY TIME WE MET WITH SOMEBODY OR, UH, DISCUSSED APPLICATIONS, YOU CAN SEE THAT, UH, THERE IS SOME SLIGHT VARIATION IN THE NUMBERS BETWEEN THE TWO YEARS. UH, WE DID NOT START KEEPING THESE NUMBERS UNTIL JANUARY OF THIS LAST YEAR, BUT, UH, IF YOU TAKE OFF, UM, THE FIRST THREE MONTHS THERE, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, AND DECEMBER, UM, YOU CAN SEE THOSE NUMBERS. UH, WE'VE, WE'VE REVIEWED A FEW LESS CASES THAN WE DID, UH, IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR ACCORDING TO THOSE, THOSE SPECIFIC FIGURES THERE. NOW, THIS NEXT SLIDE ILLUSTRATES THE NUMBER OF CASES ACCEPTED. UH, WE DID HAVE A 20% INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF CASES WE TOOK IN OVER THE, OVER THE YEAR ON AVERAGE. AND THIS NEXT SLIDE IS A NEWER SLIDE THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO KEEP TRACK OF. UM, THIS IS A COMPARISON BETWEEN THIS YEAR'S CASES REVIEWED VERSUS CASES ACCEPTED, AND WE WERE COMPARING TO SEE THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO. AND AS YOU CAN SEE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, IT, IT DOES GET CLOSER, BUT ONE OF OUR GOALS FOR THE NEXT YEAR, UH, IS GONNA BE TO DROP THAT NUMBER TO AVERAGE AROUND 60%. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE AT 65 OVER THE YEAR, AND WE'VE GOT SOME STRATEGIES TO DO THAT, WHICH I'LL OUTLINE AS WE GET TO, UH, THESE NEXT SLIDES. UM, THIS IS A SUMMARY OF THE CASES THAT WERE ACTUALLY PRESENTED TO THE BOARD. WE SAW A 30% OR A 36% INCREASE THIS YEAR, AND JUST ABOUT EVERY MONTH INCREASED. UH, THIS IS AN OVERALL SUMMARY. MR. AGNES HAS A QUESTION. SURE. I SAY THAT'S INTERESTING GIVEN THAT THE CASES PRESENTED TO THE BOARD INCREASED WHILE CASES REVIEWED, DECREASED, OR, OR THE, YOUR INITIALS, UH, YOUR INITIAL SPEC, WHICH WAS CASES WE'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE [01:45:01] ABOUT, DECREASED, HAVE, IT'S SMALL, SMALL, WE ONLY HAVE TWO YEARS, BUT DO YOU HAVE A SENSE FOR WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS? UM, THAT'S SOMETHING WE DEFINITELY WANT TO EXPLORE. IT'S ONLY TWO YEARS AS WELL WITH LOOKING IN BETWEEN THE TWO. BUT, BUT YES, I, I, I DO WANNA LOOK INTO THAT FURTHER AND HOW WE CAN USE THOSE NUMBERS TO BETTER SERVE. SO IN THE OVERALL, UM, THE NUMBER OF HEARINGS WE SHOWED A 30% INCREASE. UM, I BELIEVE WE ONLY CANCELED ONE HEARING, UH, THE WHOLE YEAR, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. IT, IT WAS BECAUSE WE COULDN'T GET A QUORUM. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON THAT WAS CANCELED. BUT YES, AS INTO COMPARISON TO THE PREVIOUS YEARS WHERE WE CANCELED QUITE A FEW BASED ON LACK OF CASES, UM, WE DID SEE A 20% INCREASE IN APPLICATIONS, AND THE REQUEST REMAINED PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME. IT WAS ONLY A 1% DIFFERENCE. MR. HOPKOS HAS A QUESTION. UH, JASON, CAN YOU, UM, I DON'T HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIFFERENTIATION OF A CASE THAT'S REVIEWED. WHAT HAPPENS TO IT WHEN IT'S REVIEWED, BUT IT'S NOT ACCEPTED? DOES THAT MEAN YOU SETTLED IT IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, OR, YES. OR THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY RETURN TO FILE THE CASE? SO, SO AGAIN, THAT THIS, THESE NEXT COUPLE SLIDES, WE'RE GONNA DIG INTO THAT A LITTLE MORE TO TRY AND FIND OUT WHAT THAT IS AND ACTUALLY REDUCE, UM, WE'VE GOT SOME, SOME IDEAS ON THAT AND, AND I'LL, I'LL MENTION THAT IN THE NEXT COUPLE SLIDES. SO HERE'S KIND OF A BREAKDOWN OF THE REQUESTS, UH, BETWEEN LAST PHY OR PREVIOUS PHYSICAL YEAR AND LAST PHYSICAL YEAR. UM, AS FAR AS SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS GO, WE HAD A, THEY WERE, THEY WERE ABOUT THE SAME. THERE WAS A DECREASE BY 5%. VARIANCES WENT UP BY 25%. THE AO APPEALS WENT UP BY 25%. UH, FEE WAIVERS UP BY 400% AS WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY, THE, THE, THE PREVIOUS YEAR. AND THEN OUR HOLDOVERS, WHICH I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD NUMBER, WENT DOWN BY 69%. AND I THINK, UH, I, I DON'T WANNA JUMP THE GUN, BUT I, I PRIDE THAT OUR CASE REPORTS GOT BETTER AND MAYBE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO GET HELD OVER AS MUCH. I THINK THE CASE REPORTS GOT BETTER, AND I THINK THE BOARD IS EVOLVING TO BE, MAKE MORE DECISIONS AS OPPOSED TO ENOUGH IN THEY'RE GETTING ENOUGH INFORMATION SO THEY CAN MAKE A DECISION. AND HERE'S A SUMMARY OF THE CASE OUTCOMES. UH, WE HAD A 9% INCREASE IN APPROVAL, AN 11% INCREASE IN DENIALS, UH, A 75% PRODUCTION IN THOSE HELD AND WITHDRAWN. WE HAD A 500% INCREASE. AND THESE NEXT SLIDES ILLUSTRATE OUR GOALS FOR, FOR THIS COMING YEAR OR THIS CURRENT YEAR. UH, AGAIN, THEY CENTER AROUND TIMELINESS, TRANSPARENCY, ACCURACY, AND TEAMWORK. UH, THE FIRST ONE IS WE WOULD LIKE TO, UH, REDUCE THE AVERAGE DAYS, UH, FROM APPLICATION TO HEARING BY AN ADDITIONAL 10%, UH, AND THE APPLICATIONS TO ACCEPTED GAP TO 60%, WHICH IS WHAT WE SHOWED BEFORE WITH THE, UH, THE CASE IS REVIEWED VERSUS THE CASE IS ACCEPTED. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GONNA DO IS, UH, WE'RE GONNA INTRODUCE A LOG WHERE WE LOG ALL OF THOSE REVIEWS, AND WE WILL INSTITUTE A FOLLOW UP AFTER SEVEN DAYS TO FOLLOW UP WITH THOSE APPLICANTS TO SEE WHERE, WHERE THEY'RE AT. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE DONE ANY OF THAT BEFORE, BUT THIS WAY, WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL BE PROACTIVE ABOUT ENGAGING EACH, EACH, UH, EACH REVIEW WHENEVER IT COMES THROUGH. UM, WE'D LIKE TO INCREASE OUR OVERALL CUSTOMER SERVICE AND ACCESSIBILITY, UH, FEEDBACK OPTIONS, UM, IMPLEMENT AND MAINTAIN QC AND ALL BDA PROCESSES. WE'VE, WE'VE STARTED WITH OUR CASE REPORTS. WE'RE GONNA EXPAND THAT, UH, AND PROVIDE QUARTERLY TRAINING, CROSS TRAINING, TEAM BUILDING AND DEPARTMENTAL COLLABORATION. NOW, AS FAR AS TIMELINESS GOES TO EXPAND ON THAT, UM, REDUCING THE 10%, UH, BY THE END OF THE YEAR TO ENSURE AND ENSURE THAT 90% OF THOSE APPLICATIONS HAVE A PRIMARY METRIC BETWEEN 54 AND 60 DAYS. WITH THIS NEW CALENDAR, WE'VE REDUCED IT AN ADDITIONAL WEEK. SO WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HIT THAT GOAL AS WE DID THE PREVIOUS YEAR IN OUR PRE-SCREEN REVIEW. UH, THIS IS PART OF OUR, OUR TRACKING AND OUR LOGGING, IS WE WANNA REDUCE THAT FROM TWO TO THREE DAYS TO ONE TO TWO DAYS, UH, BY THE END OF THE NEXT QUARTER. UM, WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED A STANDARD ZONING CHECKLIST FOR THAT. UH, ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THAT IS TO, UH, JUST BE ABLE TO STREAMLINE THAT PROCESS A LITTLE BIT. SO WE'RE CHECKING FOR THE SAME THING [01:50:01] AND, AND MOVING THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS EVERY TIME WITH CONSULTATIONS. UH, THIS AGAIN, IS THE LOG. WE'RE GONNA COME IN AND WE WILL FOLLOW UP WITH STAKEHOLDERS WITHIN SEVEN TO 10 BUSINESS DAYS IF WE HAVEN'T HEARD BACK FROM THEM ALREADY. AND AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S LOOKING TO TRY AND COLLECT THE DATA TO DETERMINE HOW TO REDUCE OUR REVIEW TO ACCEPTANCE. UH, WE DO WANT TO REDUCE THE GAP. AND YES, AGAIN, BETWEEN APPLICATIONS AND, AND, AND, AND, UH, WHAT WAS REVIEWED WITH TRANSPARENCY, UH, WE ARE LOOKING TO ENHANCE THE WEBSITE EVEN MORE. I BELIEVE WE HAVE A, A LIST THAT WE'RE WORKING ON, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO ENSURE OUR WEEKLY UPDATES AND AS NEEDED UPDATES ARE MADE. UH, MARY WAS GIVEN THE AUTHORIZATION TO DO THAT, UH, THE BEGINNING OF LAST FISCAL YEAR. AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO THAT AND CONTINUE SUPPORT HER IN THAT BOARD MEMBERS THAT IT'S A VERY FINE LINE OF WHAT WE AS A BOARD AND WHAT THE STAFF CAN DO AS A SUPPORT TO THE BOARD ABOUT THE OUTREACH BEYOND A SPECIFIC APPLICATION. BECAUSE EACH APPLICATION STANDS ON ITS OWN, AND IT'S NOT AS THOUGH THE BE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CAN GO ON A ROAD SHOW TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE DO, NOR, OR THE STAFF TO NECESSARILY DO THAT. SO IT'S A FINE LINE. WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS TO MAKE SURE THE WEBSITE IS AS UPDATED AS POSSIBLE AND PEOPLE ARE GIVEN THE ASSISTANCE WHEN THEY, WHEN THE REQUEST COMES, AND IT'S CONSISTENT AND FAIR ERROR. THANK YOU. THE NEXT THING WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT IS, UH, OUR PRINTED APPLICATION THAT WE HAVE AT THE OFFICE. WE'LL ALSO HAVE A QR CODE, AND IT WILL TAKE YOU TO A FILLABLE FORM. UM, WE'RE ALSO GONNA LOOK AT THAT APPLICATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE KEEPING CURRENT WITH EXACTLY WHAT IS REQUIRED, UM, AND MAKE SURE OUR CHECKLISTS ARE UPDATED AND CONTINUE TO BE UPDATED AS WE GO. UH, WE ARE LOOKING TO TRANS, EXCUSE ME, TO TRANSITION TO AN ONLINE SUBMISSION BY THE END OF THE THIRD QUARTER. UH, WHETHER THIS IS THROUGH OUR NEW PROGRAM, ELA OR, OR WE GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE, BUT WE'RE EXPLORING WAYS TO BRIDGE THAT GAP RIGHT NOW, UH, WITH A DIGITAL SUBMISSION AND KEEP IT A FULL DIGITAL PROCESS RATHER THAN HAVING PAPER AND GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE TWO. UM, WE ARE LOOKING TO IMPLEMENT A SURVEY, UH, A STAKEHOLDER SURVEY BY THE END OF END OF NEXT QUARTER. AND WITH THIS SURVEY, WE WANT TO IDENTIFY AT LEAST THREE AREAS OF IMPROVEMENT, AND WE'LL BE SENDING THAT OUT. IT'LL BE ON OUR WEBSITE, IT'LL BE, UH, IN OUR EMAIL SIGNATURES AS WELL AS, UH, OUR APPLICATION. THAT'LL BE INTERESTING TO GET THE RESULTS OF THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE SURVEYING PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD CONTACT EITHER WITH YOU OR THE BOARD. CORRECT. SO IF YOU, IF YOU HAD CONTACT AND YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED TO PROVE, YOU'RE GONNA SAY IT'S GREAT. IF, ON THE OTHER HAND, THE BOARD DENIED, YOU'RE GONNA SAY IT'S HORRIBLE. SO THAT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT SORTS OUT. BUT, BUT IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE DATA. OUR NEXT GOAL UNDER ACCURACY, UM, WE WILL BE LOOKING AT THE PRESCREEN REVIEW, AND AGAIN, I'VE MENTIONED THE CHECKLIST TO HELP WITH, UH, WITH STREAMLINING THAT. AND WE'RE LOOKING TO REDUCE OUR PRESCREEN OVERSIGHTS, WHICH, WHICH DO SLOW DOWN SOME OF OUR REVIEWS BY AT LEAST 5%. SO WE'LL BE TRACKING THOSE AND WE'LL BE LOOKING CLOSELY AT THOSE AS WE MOVE FORWARD. UM, WE'LL ALSO BE LOOKING AT OUR APPLICATION INTAKE WHERE WE, WE HAVE QC IN THERE ALREADY, BUT WE'RE STILL LOOKING TO REDUCE ANY OVERSIGHTS AND PROCESSING TIME. AND THROUGH THAT, UH, WE'LL BE LOGGING AND FOLLOWING UP THE SEVEN TO 10 DAYS, UH, LOOKING TO INCREASE, UH, THE PERCENTAGE OF APPLICATIONS ACCEPTED BY 10%. OUR CASE REPORTS, AGAIN, WE'LL CONTINUE WITH OUR QC THAT WE'RE WORKING ON NOW, AND WE'LL MAKE CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENTS AS NEEDED. UH, NOTIFICATION AND POST HEARINGS, WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE WITH NOTICING HOLDOVERS, WHICH WE STARTED LAST, LAST FISCAL YEAR, AND MAINTAIN ALL EXISTING PRACTICES TO, TO MEET OUR CURRENT DEADLINES. SO BOARD MEMBER, BOARD MEMBERS. HISTORICALLY, WHEN A CASE IS HELD OVER, WE DIDN'T RE NOTIFY THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT JUST KIND OF WENT INTO THIS WAY. AND SO THE OFFICERS REQUESTED OF THE STAFF THAT WE GO THROUGH THE EFFORT TO RE NOTIFY SO THAT THEY ARE AWARE THAT THE HEARING DATE GOT MOVED TO ANOTHER DATE SO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T LOST IN THE SHUFFLE OF HEARINGS. SO YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, OUR LAST ITEM IS, [01:55:01] UH, TEAMWORK, WHICH WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH, UH, STAFF AND BOARD TRAINING TO PROVIDE THE SCHEDULED QUARTERLY TRAININGS. I KNOW WE MENTIONED THIS LAST YEAR, WE'RE GONNA WORK HARDER ON IT THIS YEAR AND PARTNER WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR ONBOARDING OF NEW MEMBERS. UM, WE DO APPRECIATE ANY OUTREACH YOU HAVE AS FAR AS, UH, OR FEEDBACK YOU HAVE AS FAR AS TRAINEES GO. UM, WE DID HEAR INTEREST ON THE CPC ZONING PROCESS AND ANY, ANY TRAININGS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO LET US KNOW. I THINK RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST KINDA LETTING OUR JUDGMENT DICTATE WHAT WHAT WE SEE TRAINING NEEDS TO HAPPEN. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE BOARD MEMBERS TO EITHER COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY TO ME AS YOUR CHAIRMAN OR TO YOUR PANEL VICE CHAIR SUGGESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE, AND THEN WE'LL FUNNEL THAT TOGETHER TO MS. LOU OR MR. POOL, OR SARAH MAY. SO COMMUNICATE THROUGH YOUR VICE, YOUR PANEL VICE CHAIR OR MYSELF, AND THEN WE'LL COMMUNICATE. SO WE'RE SPEAKING IN ONE VOICE. UH, ONE OF OUR BIG INITIATIVES AS FAR AS DEPARTMENT WIDE IS, HAS BEEN CROSS TRAINING AND LOOKING AT SUCCESSION PLANNING, AND THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL CONTINUE TO THE BOARD. UM, WE ARE LOOKING TO ENSURE THAT EACH, UH, TEAM MEMBER IS CROSS-TRAINED IN ANOTHER DISCIPLINE, UM, SO THAT BY THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, IF, IF SOMEONE IS OUT, WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE ANY LOSS AT ALL. UM, WE'RE ALSO LOOKING TO DEVELOP WORKSHOPS FOR SENIOR STAFF MEMBERS TO ENSURE INIT OR, UH, EXCUSE ME, INTERNAL GROWTH AMONG THE TEAM. UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT QUARTERLY TEAM BUILDING FOR EACH OF THE BOARD MEMBERS, UH, THE FIRST TO BE SCHEDULED BY THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER, AND THEN INCREASE OUR INTERDEPARTMENTAL COLLABORATION AND PROMOTE EVENTS TO ENHANCE COLLABORATION BETWEEN DEPARTMENTS. AND SPECIFICALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT RESIDENTIAL ZONING, SUBDIVISION CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, AND CURRENT PLANNING TO HELP STREAMLINE ALL OF OUR WORKFLOWS. AND THAT CONCLUDES QUESTIONS FOR MR. POOL OR MS. LOU, MS. DAVIS. THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. UH, MR. POOLE, THERE'S NO DOUBT YOU'VE MADE SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PROCESSES HERE AS A BOARD MEMBER WHO'S BEEN ON THE, UM, WHO'S BEEN SERVING FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS. I MEAN, YOU'RE, THE CHANGES THAT YOU'VE MADE, INCLUDING THE VIDEO, UM, JUST SOME OF THE PRESENTATION TWEAKS THAT YOU'VE MADE HAS MADE IT VERY, VERY EASY FOR US. MUCH EASIER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR, WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE. SO I TRULY THANK YOU FOR THAT BECAUSE YOU'VE MADE A, A HUGE IMPACT. I CAN ALSO SEE A LOT OF METRICS HAVE IMPROVED, AND I KNOW THAT THOSE METRICS ARE IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. SO WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY DOESN'T DISCOUNT THAT AS A BOARD MEMBER, MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE GET, BECAUSE WHEN WE GET INFORMATION THAT IS OUTDATED, IT IS NOT CORRECT. WE CAN'T MAKE A DECISION. IT'S EMBARRASSING FOR US. IT'S EMBARRASSING FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS. SO FOR ME, I WOULD RATHER SEE A LONGER LAG TIME THAN GET INACCURATE INFORMATION. THAT'S A BIG CONCERN OF MINE. AND I ALSO BELIEVE THERE'S A LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY, AND I THINK THAT IS ALSO EMBARRASSING. SO I, I JUST WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT BECAUSE WE'RE A WONDERFUL CITY. WE'RE THE NINTH LARGEST CITY IN THE COUNTRY. AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE OF INACCURATE INFORMATION, IT'S EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING TO US AS VOLUNTEERS. I'M SURE IT'S EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING TO THE STAFF, BUT WHAT CAN WE, OR WHAT CAN THE DEPARTMENT DO TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE ARE GETTING INFORMATION ON THE CASE, THE MAPS ARE UPDATED, THE ZONING INFORMATION IS UPDATED, EVERYTHING IS ACCURATE, AND THERE'S ACCOUNTABILITY THERE, NOT POINTER POINT, FINGER POINTING. THANK YOU. SURE. THANK YOU. IS THAT QUESTION TO MR. POOLE OR THE BOSS ? I WOULD SAY TO BOTH. I'D SAY TO BOTH. THANK YOU. YEAH, THANK, THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION. UM, I, I DO REALIZE THAT THERE IS A, A FINE BALANCE BETWEEN SPEED AND ACCURACY AND, AND WE'RE LOOKING TO, TO FIND THAT BALANCE AND WEIGH MORE PROBABLY ON THE ACCURACY SIDE. UM, THIS, THIS IS WHY WHEN WE, WHEN WE IMPLEMENTED THE METRICS, WE ALSO PAIRED IT WITH A QC PROGRAM. AND I THINK THESE ARE BOTH THINGS THAT WE'RE DEVELOPING AT THE SAME TIME. UH, THE QC IS, IS HAVING A SECOND SET OF EYES ON EVERYTHING. UM, IT'S, IT'S HARDER FOR, FOR TWO PEOPLE TO MISS SOMETHING THAN, THAN IT IS FOR, FOR ONE PERSON TO MISS IT. AND I, I THINK AS WE GO, WE'RE GONNA GET BETTER AT IT. UM, AND, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WILL CONSTANTLY BE LOOKING AT IS THE ACCURACY SIDE. I THINK WE'VE LEARNED A LOT OF LESSONS FROM, FROM SOME OF THESE CHANGES WE'VE [02:00:01] BEEN THROUGH AND SOME OF THESE OVERSIGHTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED. AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO IMPLEMENT THOSE LESSONS IN, IN FUTURE CASES. LIKE, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GO AWAY. I'VE GOT MR. VICE CHAIR, AGNES, MR. HAVIS, AND THEN MR. CANNON, AND THEN MS. P*****K. SO MR. VICE CHAIRMAN AGNES, AND THEN DR. GLOVER. UH, MS. LUTH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND SPENDING, UH, REAL QUALITY TIME WITH US. I KNOW THAT THE BIG BOSS HAS A LOT OF PLACES TO BE. AND, AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR, FOR SPENDING MORE THAN PERFUNCTORY TIME WITH US. I I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THAT. I HAVEN'T ASKED, YOU WALKED IN BY THE TIME WE SEE SOMETHING, IT HAS BEEN PERCOLATING FOR MONTHS OR, OR A YEAR OR WHATNOT, AND YOU WALKED IN INTO, YOU KNOW, MIDWAY, UH, AS WELL. I, WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE MORE AND MORE CASES WHERE THE CITY IS A PARTY, WHICH I THINK IS CODE FOR, UM, THE CITY MAY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE IN THE PROCESS, OR AT LEAST CAUGHT SOMETHING OR CHANGED ITS MIND. AND, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT SPEAKING OF ANY SPECIFIC CASE. NO. YEAH. AND I PREDICT WE THIS MAY GO CONTINUE GOING FORWARD UNTIL IT GETS, MAY GET WORSE, BEFORE IT GETS BETTER. UM, MY ASK OF, AND IT CAN ONLY COME FROM THE BOSS, IS THAT YOU SUPPORT THE PEOPLE ON YOUR STAFF WHO STAND UP AND OWN IT AND DON'T MAKE A MISDEMEANOR INTO A FELONY. AND IT PROBABLY HAS TO BE REINFORCED AND IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA COME FROM THE BOSS. AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GIVE US THE COMPLETE INFORMATION TO MAKE A DECISION, AS PAINFUL AS IT MAY BE, I, I BELIEVE WE WE'RE CAPABLE OF, OF DOING IT IN AS FAIR WAY AS POSSIBLE. BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, HUMAN INSTINCT IS WHEN THERE'S A MISTAKE TO BE MADE TO COVER IT. IT'S JUST WHO WE ARE. IT'S EVERYONE THAT CAN BE OVERCOME BY LEADERSHIP. AND MY MY ASK IS, UH, IF YOU DO THAT, WE'LL DO OUR JOB AND WE'LL GET THROUGH IT. UH, I SEE THE PROCESS IS CHANGING, BUT THERE IS A LAG. THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY MY GOAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. VICE CHAIR AGNES, MR. OVITZ, AND THEN I'VE GOT MR. CANNON, MS. POLLETT, THEN DR. GLOVER. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN AND MR. SASH. MR. FINNEY. OKAY, GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY. MR. HOCKMAN. MR. POOL IS PROBABLY, UH, AT MY END, I'M STILL HAVING A LITTLE PROBLEM TERMINOLOGY WISE. SO THERE'S CASES RECEIVED, THEY'RE REVIEWED, AND IN SOME CASES, IN MANY CASES, UH, THE CITY'S ABLE TO RESOLVE THAT WITHOUT BRINGING IT TO THIS BOARD. SO, UH, I WOULD VIEW THAT AS A GOOD OUTCOME. SO I'M WONDERING WHY THERE IS AN OBJECTIVE TO INCREASE THE PERCENTAGE OF CASES THAT, THAT COME TO THE BOARD. IF I, IF I READ THE, THE SLIDE CORRECTLY, I BELIEVE WE WERE JUST TRYING TO REDUCE THE GAP BETWEEN THE CASES REVIEWED AND THE CASES ACCEPTED. AND WE HAVEN'T LOOKED AT WHY THOSE CASES WERE, WERE NOT ACTUALLY BECOMING A, UH, AN ACTUAL BOARD CASE. MR. POOLE, I THINK YOU NEED TO, DON'T GO DEEP 'CAUSE WE, WE GOTTA TURN TIME HERE. UH, YOU NEED TO COMMUNICATE TO THE BOARD WHAT ACCEPTED MEANS BECAUSE IT, THE STAFF DOES NOT DECIDE WHETHER AN APPEAL COMES TO THE BOARD, BUT THEY GO THROUGH A CHECKLIST OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE SUBMITTED IN ORDER FOR IT TO QUALIFY. AM I, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR YOU. SO, RIGHT. THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. SO ONCE THE APPLICATION IS COMPLETE AND ALL ITEMS ARE PROVIDED, THEN IT MOVES FORWARD TO THE BOARD. SO SOMETHING THAT MAY COME TO US WOULD BE HELPFUL TRAINING MAYBE IS THAT CHECKLIST. NOW, THREE YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST CAME ON THE BOARD, BACK IN THE BOARD, MS. SARAMA, I SPENT A DAY TOGETHER AND WE WENT THROUGH THIS LONG CHECKLIST AND I SAID, OH MY GOSH, YOU EXPECT A PROPERTY OWNER TO GO THROUGH ALL THIS? AND SHE SAID, YEAH, THAT'S THE RULE. SO THE CHECKLIST, WHATEVER THAT CHECKLIST IS, I THINK MR. HOPKOS IS WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS ACCEPTED VERSUS NOT. THEY DON'T INDEPENDENTLY SAY THIS APPEAL COMES FORWARD OR NOT, BUT ONE YOU REMEMBER THAT DAY, SARAH? YEAH. WE WENT TO, UH, THAT, WHEN THAT CHECKLIST IS MET OF DO YOU HAVE THIS DOCUMENT, A TAX RECORD? DO HAVE YOU PAID YOUR TAXES? DO YOU HAVE THE DEED? ARE YOU THE PROPERTY OWNER? UH, ALL THESE OTHER THINGS IS WHAT HAS TO BE MET. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. UH, I'VE GOT MR. CANNON. OKAY, FIRST OFF, UM, I WANT TO SECOND OR ECHO, UH, MS. DAVIS'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE, JUST THE DATA, THE METRICS. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, UH, MY QUESTION IS GEARING TOWARDS THE, UM, THIS BDA [02:05:01] SURVEY, UM, THAT'S I GUESS TARGETED TO BE COMPLETED BY, UM, THE SECOND QUARTER OF THIS FISCAL YEAR. UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WOULD BE A SURVEY OF STAKEHOLDERS, WHICH, UM, YOU'RE SAYING THERE WAS A POINT THAT THIS SURVEY WOULD BE REFERENCED IN EMAIL SIGNATURES, BUT ONE POINT THAT I'D BE CURIOUS ABOUT, UM, AS A BOARD IS, UM, SURVEYING LIKE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THOSE THAT MAKE THEIR WAY TO OUR HEARINGS IN PERSON OR ONLINE, JUST TO GET WHAT THEIR FEEDBACK IS. I KNOW, UM, OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS, SOME COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THIS HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S A CHALLENGE TO EITHER MAKE TIME OUT OF THEIR DAY TO EITHER COME ALL THE WAY DOWN TO CITY HALL OR EVEN TO LOG ON. SO I THINK IF, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S PART OF THE MATERIAL THAT'S BEING SURVEYED, BUT, UM, IF WE COULD HAVE LIKE A POINT OF CONTACT LIKE IN THE HEARING ROOM WITH MAYBE LIKE A QR CODE OR LIKE A POST, UM, OR I'M TRYING TO SAY LIKE AN EMAIL TO THOSE THAT ARE SPEAKING ONLINE, JUST SO THAT WE CAN REALLY GATHER MORE DATA TO SEE WHAT ARE THE PAIN POINTS THAT THE, UM, THE PUBLIC IS FACING IF THEY'RE EITHER THE APPLICANT OR IF THEY'RE SPEAKING FOR OR AGAINST A CASE. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. UM, AS WE, AS WE LOOK AT THIS IMPLEMENTATION, THERE ARE OTHER AREAS FOR THAT. WE CAN DO IT INTO THE SPEAKER REGISTRATION EMAILS AS THEY COME BACK. UM, JUST AS YOU SAY THAT, THINKING OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD AS, AS THEY GET REGISTERED TO SPEAK, WE COULD HAVE IT IN THERE. UM, AND THEN, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE HEARINGS, WE CAN PUT IT ON THE SCREEN AND PEOPLE CAN SCAN IT, UH, AT THE END OF A MEETING. LIKE THERE, THERE'S LOTS OF OPPORTUNITY THERE AND WE WILL BE EXPLORING THAT AS WE MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MR. CANNON. I HAVE MS. P*****K. UH, KUDOS TO THE STAFF FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUED IMPROVEMENTS IN THE, UM, DEPARTMENT. MY QUESTION REFERS TO THE CALENDAR. I KNOW THIS IS PROBABLY VERY NAIVE, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE, UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING. WHEN YOU SAY FIRST QUARTER, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE QUARTER THAT BEGAN OCTOBER 1ST, THE CITY'S FISCAL YEAR, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MS. P*****K. I HAVE MR. FINNEY, THEN MR. GLOVER, THEN MR. SINGTON. MR. FINNEY. UM, YES. SO FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO ECHO MY COLLEAGUE SENTIMENTS TO MR. POOLE AND HIS STAFF. AND MS. LOU, UH, I REMEMBER A YEAR AGO SITTING HERE JUST BEING BLOWN AWAY AT THE PROGRESS THAT YOU HAD MADE THE PREVIOUS YEAR, AND I'M EQUALLY AS, UH, BLOWN AWAY THIS YEAR. UM, BUT GIVEN THAT BUILDING ON MS. DAVIS'S QUESTION ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY TO YOUR LAST POINT, MR. POOLE, ABOUT ENHANCING COLLABORATION, UH, BETWEEN DEPARTMENTS. YOU KNOW, EVERY ORGANIZATION LOVES TO TOUT THE WORD COLLABORATION. I'M CURIOUS, WHAT ARE YOUR SPECIFIC STRATEGIES FOR DOING THIS, FOR ACCOMPLISHING THIS? 'CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE A CRUCIAL COMPONENT TO ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF ACCOUNTABILITY. SO, JUST SOME OF THE IMMEDIATE FRUITS OF OUR TWO DEPARTMENTS COMBINING ARE JUST COMBINED MEETINGS AND HAVING MORE AVAILABLE SETS OF EYES TO LOOK AT THINGS. UM, IT SHORTENS THE GAP IN THOSE COMMUNICATIONS. UM, AS MS. MS. LOU, DIRECTOR LOU SAID A SECOND AGO, LIKE JUST COMING OUT OF ONE MEETING, WE, WE HAVE A COLLABORATION BETWEEN LONG RANGE PLANNING AND BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS TO BEGIN LOOKING AT WAYS TO AMEND CODE BASED ON VARIANCES. SO, SO JUST HAVING ADDITIONAL MEMBERS, ADDITIONAL, UH, PLANNERS IN THERE TO LOOK AT THINGS, UH, IS, IS ONE WAY. UM, ANOTHER WAY WE'RE LOOKING AT IS CROSS TRAINING SOME OF OUR SENIOR PLANNERS, UH, TO BE ABLE TO DO MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE CASES. SO WE, WE, WE GET A DIFFERENT SET OF EYES ON THINGS. UM, THEY'RE BEYOND JUST THE, UH, THE MANAGER OVERSEEING THINGS LIKE WE, WE GET ADDITIONAL MEMBERS AND, AND KEY STAFF THAT CAN ANALYZE THINGS BEYOND JUST THE, THE ONE CASE RIGHT THEN IN THAT MOMENT, IF THAT, IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. YES. AWESOME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MR. FINNEY. I'VE GOT MR. SINGTON AND THEN MR. GLOVER. OH, MR. SA, DR. GLOVER. OH, THANK YOU. UM, MINE IS MORE OF A PRAISE. I'D LIKE TO FIRST, UH, THANK, UH, CHAIR NEWMAN AND BOTH VICE FOR CREATING SUCH A STRONG, UH, LOOP BACK PROCESS. UH, IT'S EVIDENT THAT A LOT OF FEEDBACK THAT WE HAVE GIVEN HAS BEEN ACTIONED AND HAS BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT. UM, I WOULD ALSO WANT TO COMMEND YOUR TEAM, UM, MR. POOLE, FOR THE TREMENDOUS WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE TO BRING US TO THIS POINT. THIS HAS MADE THE WORK WE DO MORE OR LESS DAUNTING, UH, KUDOS TO YOUR TEAM. WHAT I'VE COME TO REALIZE, AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THAT THERE IS A DISCONNECT BETWEEN YOUR DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. AND I WANT TO SUGGEST THAT, UH, [02:10:01] DIRECTOR EMILY, YOU WORK WITH THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS TO FORM A CERTAIN SYNERGY. SO THERE'S A FLUID TRANSITION OF INFORMATION. UH, SO FAR I'VE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED WITH WHERE WE HAVE GOTTEN TO, AND I'M VERY CONFIDENT THAT MOVING FORWARD, ALL OUR SUGGESTIONS TO YOU WILL BE TACKLED AND WE'LL SEE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS THAT I'M GONNA RECAP AND THEN WE'RE GONNA MOVE TO, UM, MY BRIEF CHAIRMAN'S REPORT. UH, MS. LIU AND I YESTERDAY VISITED FOR AN HOUR IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS MEETING, AND I EXPRESSED TO HER FRUSTRATION OF THE BOARD, CONCERN OF THE BOARD, BUT HOPE, GREAT PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN OCCURRED IN THE LAST YEAR, TWO YEARS. BUT FRUSTRATION ABOUT ACCURACY, FAIRNESS, CONCERN ABOUT THE PERMITTING PROCESS, CONCERN ABOUT THE INSPECTIONS, CONCERN ABOUT WHAT IS IT THAT COMES TO US SO THAT WE CAN MAKE A FAIR AND ACCURATE DECISION. UM, I'M HOPEFUL. I TOLD HER AT THE END OF OUR MEETING YESTERDAY THAT I WOULD SAY ON RECORD, OUR, THE, THE, THE CONCERN, BUT THE HOPE, UH, THE LAST THING THAT WE DO IN OUR ANNUAL REPORT IS MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL. THE OFFICERS CAME UP WITH THREE, IT'S UP TO THE BOARD TO ADOPT OR NOT, BUT THEY ARE TO, IN, TO REQUEST. THE CITY COUNCIL'S CONTINUED OVERSIGHT OF PLANNING DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT TO ENSURE TIMELINESS, ACCURACY AND TRANSPARENCY AND FAIRNESS. THIS IS ON PAGE 1 92 OF YOUR PACKAGE. AND NUMBER TWO, REQUEST THE CITY COUNCIL'S OVERSIGHT ON PERMITTING PROCESS AND PERSONNEL TO REDUCE PERMITTING ERRORS, WHICH HAVE LED TO UNDUE FINANCIAL COST DELAY AND UNFAIRNESS TO ALL INVOLVED. SO WE HAVE FRUSTRATION AND CONCERN, MS. LOU, BUT WE HAVE HOPE AND WE'RE COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH YOU THROUGH YOUR TEAM, AND HOPEFULLY YOU THROUGH THE OFFICERS OF THE BOARD, AND SO THAT WE COULD ALL BE IN THE END, FAIR TO THE INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER IN DALLAS. THANK YOU. I'M ALSO COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH YOU TOGETHER, UH, TO MAKE THE DEPARTMENT BETTER, TO MAKE DALLAS A BETTER PLACE FOR ALL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH WITH, UH, THAT TOOK LONGER THAN I ANTICIPATED, BUT I THINK IT WAS VERY GOOD, CONSTRUCTIVE, INTERACTIVE, A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION WE WE RECEIVED, AND HOPEFULLY WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM ON OUR THANK YOU AGAIN, MS. LOU AND MR. POOLE. NEXT AGENDA ITEM, UH, ON OUR, IN OUR PACKET IS THE CHAIRMAN'S REPORT. UH, THIS IS PAGE 36. UH, IF YOU'D FLIP TO THAT ON WHOEVER'S CONTROLLING THE SCREEN. UM, IT'S IN YOUR PACKET. THIS IS JUST A SINGLE PAGE UPDATE FROM MYSELF AND THE TWO VICE CHAIRS TALKING ABOUT FOCUS, ADVOCACY, EMPOWERMENT, TRANSITION, AND PROGRESS. UH, I RE APPRECIATE DR. GLOVER, YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT FEEDBACK LOOP. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY PART OF OUR MISSION, AND THAT IS TO, IS TO GET FEEDBACK THAT OCCURS AT EACH OF THE PANELS AND GIVE THAT CHANNEL THROUGH LEADERSHIP TO THE STAFF. AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I THINK THEY'RE LISTENING. I THINK THEY'RE RESPONDING AND ACTING. THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. BUT BOY, HAVE WE MADE PROGRESS IN THE LAST YEAR, TWO, THREE YEARS. BOY, HAVE WE. SO THE GIST OF YOUR CHAIRMAN'S REPORT ON PAGE 36 IS TO SAY THAT I AND THE OFFICERS HAVE BEEN MEETING REGULARLY WITH THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF THAT WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED THE RULES, CHANGES THAT WE PUT IN PLACE TWO YEARS AGO, UM, THAT WE ARE IN THAT SOME OF THE ALTERNATES, YOU'LL FEEL MY PRESENCE WHEN THERE'S A MEMBER THAT'S ABSENT. I CHASE YOU DOWN IN ORDER TO GET YOU TO ATTEND BECAUSE WE ARE VERY COMMITTED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE FIVE OF FIVE PANEL HEARINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT'S FAIR TO THE APPLICANTS. AND WE DID THAT 90% OF THE TIME, 27 OUT OF 30 HEARINGS HAD FIVE FULL MEMBERS. UM, YES, WE'VE HAD SOME TRANSITION IN STAFF THIS LAST YEAR, BUT WE'RE VERY HOPEFUL, UM, THAT DR. MILLER'S HOSKINS IS IN PLACE AND GONNA CONTINUE MOVING FORWARD. WE'RE GONNA, UH, I'M MEETING WITH JASON AND SARAH MAY ON FRIDAY MORNING AT NINE O'CLOCK TO TALK ABOUT THEIR TRANSITION OF EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP AND THAT SORT OF THING. UM, AND SO, AND THE, THE NUMBER OF DAYS TO A HEARING IS JUST FABULOUS AT 60. SO THAT'S YOUR CHAIRMAN'S REPORT. NEXT ON OUR, ANY QUESTIONS, HEARING NONE. NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS BOARD TRAINING. COME ON DOWN. UH, IS OUR NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST. CHIEF INTEGRITY, OFFICER BARON ELIASON, WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY. UH, WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED JUST THEN I THOUGHT WAS EXTREMELY HEALTHY FOR THE BOARD FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF GETTING, GIVING AND GETTING [02:15:01] FEEDBACK FROM THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. AND THANKS FOR HAVING ME. LET ME, UH, PULL UP MY PRESENTATION. WHILE I'M DOING THAT, I'LL JUST INTRODUCE MYSELF TO THOSE OF YOU WHO, UH, HAVEN'T SEEN ME BEFORE. I'M BARON. I'M CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER WITH THE INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION THAT'S UNDER THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AND MY JOB IS TO DO THINGS LIKE THIS, UH, TRAINING AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. MY GOAL TODAY IS TO GIVE YOU WHAT I'D CALL KIND OF THE, THE WHERE'S THE RIP CORD. SO WHILE I'M PULLING THIS UP, OH, IT'S UP MORE OR LESS. UH, I WENT, UH, GLIDING WITH A FRIEND. HE'S A PILOT. AND, UM, THE ONLY THING HE TOLD ME WAS, IF I TELL YOU TO EJECT, THAT'S THE LAST THING YOU'LL HEAR. I'LL BE GONE PULL THIS STRING, RIGHT? . SO THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA DO WITH YOU TODAY THAT WE, WE CAN'T POSSIBLY GO OVER THE COVE, BUT IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES, I CAN SHOW YOU WHERE THE RIP CO CODE CORD IS AND HOW TO PULL IT. AND, UH, AND THEN EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT WILL FOLLOW. SO THAT'S, UH, WHAT THIS PRESENTATION IS GONNA BE ABOUT. THERE WE GO, IS ETHICS. THERE'S SO MUCH WE COULD TALK ABOUT WITH ETHICS. HERE'S WHAT I MEAN. AND HERE'S WHAT THE CODE OF ETHICS MEANS. CODE OF ETHICS FOR US IN THE CITY JUST MEANS, UH, IT'S THE WAY WE PREVENT THE FACT OR THE APPEARANCE. AND THOSE TWO THINGS ARE IMPORTANT. THE FACT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED OR THE APPEARANCE THAT THINGS AREN'T HAPPENING IN A FAIR WAY. AND, UH, AS YOU JUST DISCUSSED BEFORE, ISSUES OF ACCURACY. ISSUES OF FAIRNESS. THAT'S HUGELY IMPORTANT, PARTICULARLY IN WHAT YOU DO, BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS INFLUENCED BY GIFTS OR CONSIDERATIONS THAT ARE JUST ABOUT FAIRNESS. THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS ARE IMPARTIAL AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. AND THAT'S WHERE THE CODE OF ETHICS IS REALLY GETTING AT. AND SO MY GOAL, AGAIN, THAT RIPCORD KIND OF AN ANALOGY, IS TO GIVE YOU A SPIDER SENSE. WHAT'S THAT? IT'S THAT NAGGING FEELING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TOUCHING ON AN ISSUE HERE THAT'S IN THE CODE OF ETHICS AND YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT. OKAY? SO WE'RE GONNA HIGHLIGHT SOME CONFLICT PROVISIONS, AND I MEAN HIGHLIGHT, AND THEN I'M GONNA PROVIDE YOU SOME RESOURCES ON THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS PICTURE, I LOVE THIS PICTURE. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T WANT. IT DOESN'T, THEY DON'T WANT SOMEBODY IN GOVERNMENT HOLDING UP ONE SIDE TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE OTHER. HERE'S WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. AND HERE'S THE BIG PICTURE IN TERMS OF ETHICS THAT YOU CAN HAVE IN MIND. IF YOU GET THIS, YOU COULD WRITE THE CODE YOURSELF. SO IN OTHER WORDS, THAT SPIDER SENSE IS ALREADY INSIDE OF YOU AND HERE, AND HERE'S WHAT IT IS. YOU HAVE ACCESS TO MONEY, POWER, AUTHORITY, INFLUENCE, INFORMATION DECISION MAKING THAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE. AND SO YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO USE THAT FOR THE PUBLIC'S GOOD, AS YOU ALL KNOW. AND THE CLASSIC BLUNDER IS WHEN YOU DO THAT FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN, OR IF IT APPEARS AS THOUGH YOU'RE DOING THAT FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN. SO AVOID THAT. AND MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, YOU'RE GONNA BE IN, IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE CODE. AND AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE CODE, THE CODE IS, UH, DIVIDED INTO ARTICLES. THOSE ARE THE CHAPTERS. THE VERY BEGINNING IN, UH, ARTICLE FOUR, IT SETS OUT SOME CODES OF BEHAVIOR AND, UH, STANDARDS OF CIVILITY. I'VE GOT THEM HERE LISTED FOR YOU. UH, NONE OF THESE ARE, AGAIN, ROCKET SCIENCE, BUT, UH, CONDUCT YOURSELVES WITH INTEGRITY IN A MANNER THAT JUSTIFIES THE TRUST AND SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE. DON'T TAKE ACTIONS THAT ARE GONNA BENEFIT YOU TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE CITY OR EVEN LOOK LIKE THEY DO. RIGHT? SEE WHAT I MEAN? YOU ALREADY HAVE THIS SPIDER SENSE. YOU WOULDN'T BE HERE IF YOU DIDN'T CAREFULLY CONSIDER PUBLIC PERCEPTION, ESPECIALLY IN YOUR POSITION. AND WITH THE MONEY THAT'S AT STAKE AND THE DECISIONS THAT ARE AT STAKE AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. YOU NEED TO, UH, BE AWARE OF THAT. AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE. WHEN YOU GET MORE GRANULAR, YOU'RE DEALING WITH TWO TYPES OF RULES IN THE CODE. THERE ARE ALL THE TIME RULES, AND THERE ARE IF THEN RULES. LET'S LOOK AT THE ALL THE TIME RULES. FIRST ONE IS YOUR DUTY. IT'S FIDUCIARY DUTY. IT'S THE HIGHEST DUTY UNDER THE LAW. THAT'S THE UTMOST DUTY OF LOYALTY AND CARE TO THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF DALLAS. IT'S JUST LIKE WHAT YOU WANT FROM YOUR DOCTOR. NOT EVERYBODY REALIZES THAT THAT IS THE DUTY THAT WE OWE TO THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY, BUT IT IS NEXT ALL THE TIME. RULE IS CIVILITY. WE'RE GONNA TREAT OTHER PEOPLE THE WAY WE WANT TO BE TREATED. AND THE CODE REALLY DEALS WITH THIS IN TWO WAYS. IT DEALS WITH IT, UH, IN THE WAY THAT WE ALL THINK ABOUT. JUST TREAT ONE ANOTHER AS WE WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED, RIGHT? BE GOOD NEIGHBORS TO ONE ANOTHER. THE SECOND WAY THOUGH IS NOT AS INTUITIVE. AND SO I BRING THIS UP BECAUSE A, IT'S NOT AS INTUITIVE AS SOME OF THESE OTHER RULES. AND B, IT COMES UP ALL THE TIME. IN FACT, I DID ANOTHER TRAINING THIS MORNING AT NINE O'CLOCK AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. AND IT'S THE RELATIONSHIP AND HOW YOU DEAL WITH THE RELATIONSHIP AS CITY OFFICIALS, WHICH YOU ARE WHEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH EMPLOYEES. AND WHEN YOU'RE DOING THAT, THERE ARE SOME RULES IN THE CODE. THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION IN THE CITY, I THINK. 'CAUSE I HEAR ABOUT IT A LOT. WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN [02:20:01] YOU AS A CITY OFFICIAL NEED TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT A PROJECT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I CALL IT THE TWO STEP. IT'S A TWO STEP PRO, UH, PROCESS. YOU SPEAK WITH SOMEBODY WITH THE WORD CITY IN FRONT OF THEIR NAME, CITY AUDITOR, CITY SECRETARY, CITY ATTORNEY CITY INSPECTOR GENERAL, AND THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR. IF IT WAS ME, I'D DO IT AT AN EMAIL AND GET IT DONE AS QUICKLY AS I CAN. WHAT EMPLOYEES SAY IS ASK ME ALL THE TIME IS WHAT DO I DO WHEN THE CITY OFFICIAL CONTACTS ME? AND I SAY, WELL, CALL YOUR DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR AND MAKE SURE THE COMMUNICATION HAS HAPPENED AND WE'RE GOOD. BUT THAT'S THE TWO STEP IN THE CODE. AND IT'S THERE BECAUSE IN THE PAST THAT HASN'T ALWAYS GONE SO WELL. AND SO THAT'S THE REASON THAT RULE IS IN THERE. AND THAT'S HOW THAT WORKS. AND THAT IS CIVILITY IN THE CODE. AND HERE IT IS, UH, THE WAY I LAY IT OUT FOR EMPLOYEES. SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THAT. LEMME GO BACK TO THAT. UM, THIS IS WHAT EMPLOYEES ARE, ARE WATCHING OUT FOR INTERFERENCE WITH THEIR WORK, IMPLEMENTATION OF POLICY, TRYING TO INFLUENCE RECOMMENDATIONS OR DECISIONS OR, OR JUST BEING BERATED. NOW THIS MORNING AT THE OTHER TRAINING, UM, THEY WERE BRINGING UP A SITUATION WHERE CITY OFFICIAL, UH, THIS WAS IN THE PAST, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN OR ANY OF THE DETAILS, BUT IT WAS LITERALLY TELLING THEM TO CHANGE THE DATA, RIGHT? THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THE CODE IS GETTING AT WITH CIVILITY. OKAY? SO THERE'S THE TWO STEP FOR YOU. IT'LL BE IN YOUR SLIDE DECK APPEARANCES. NOW IS APPEARANCE. THIS ONE'S A CONFUSING, NOT NECESSARILY INTUITIVE. IS APPEARANCE A CONFLICT? AND THE ANSWER IS NO. IT'S, IT'S NOT. SO JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING LOOKS BAD, LIKE YOUR HAND IS IN THE COOKIE JAR DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN RECUSE YOUR WAY OUT OF THAT DECISION. HOWEVER, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU DON'T HAVE A CONFLICT THAT DEMANDS RECUSAL, BUT YOU HAVE AN APPEARANCE. IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR HAND'S IN THE COOKIE JAR. MY RECOMMENDATION IS ALWAYS CONSIDER STRONGLY THAT YOU DISCLOSE WHAT'S GOING ON. LET YOUR BOARD COMMISSION THE CHAIRPERSON, LET THEM FIGURE IT OUT. BUT APPEARANCE IS IN THE CODE, AND IT REALLY DOES MATTER. YOU DON'T WANNA BE ON THE COVER OF THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THESE DAYS, BY THE TIME THE INVESTIGATION IS DONE AND YOUR NAME IS CLEARED, NOBODY CARES ANYMORE. THEY'RE DOWN THE ROAD. OKAY? IF THEN RULES, THIS IS, IF THIS, THEN THAT RULES THAT AFFECT APPLICATION OF THE CODE, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST VERSUS VIOLATIONS ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. UH, AND THEN HANDLING CONFLICTS. NOW, WHAT I'VE DONE IN, IN YOUR MATERIALS I'VE, IS I'VE INCLUDED A POCKET REFERENCE GUIDE BECAUSE THE CODE OF ETHICS, UH, DOES NOT HAVE A TABLE OF CONTENTS. SO I'VE PROVIDED YOU ONE, UH, SO THAT YOU CAN LOOK. SO IT'S VIA PDF COPY. AND IF YOU DIDN'T GET THAT FOR SOME REASON, JUST EMAIL, I'LL, I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU. BUT BY TOPIC, YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHERE TO GO IN THE CODE. AND YOU'LL NOTICE THAT, UH, IN SOME SITUATIONS THERE MIGHT BE THREE ARTICLES IN THE CODE THAT APPLY. AND SO THAT PDFI SENT YOU, I HOPE WILL BE VERY HELPFUL. HERE'S SOME DEFINITIONS THAT YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND ABOUT YOUR ROLE, UH, WHEN YOU'RE READING THE CODE, BECAUSE THESE APPLY TO YOU. AND THEN IN THE CODE, WHETHER OR NOT THESE APPLY TO YOU OR NOT DEFINES HOW THE CODE DETERMINES YOUR ACTIONS. SO YOU ARE A QUA IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT. YOU ARE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY. YOU ARE CITY OFFICIALS AND THE CODE OF ETHICS APPLIES TO YOU EMPLOYEES, PEOPLE DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY. AND LOBBYISTS HERE IS A CHECKLIST. UH, THIS IS NOT AS DETAILED AS THE PDF THAT I TOLD YOU ABOUT, BUT THIS MIGHT GENERATE SOME QUESTIONS. AND WE'RE JUST ABOUT TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE GONNA OPEN UP THE FLOOR TO QUESTIONS FROM YOU IF THE CHAIR, IF WE HAVE TIME FOR THAT. BUT HERE'S A LIST OF SOME COMMON CONFLICTS AND VIOLATIONS THAT COME UP IN THE CODE THAT PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS WITH. PRO TIP FOR YOU ALL. I KNOW THAT, UH, WELL, I THINK ANYWAY, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL GET YOUR INFORMATION AND YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO LOOK AT IT BEFORE YOU'RE GONNA BE SITTING HERE AND MAKING DECISIONS. AND SO THE ENCOURAGEMENT IS LOOK AT YOUR AGENDAS AND READ THROUGH 'EM AS QUICK AS YOU CAN, UH, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SITTING HERE HAVING TO THINK ON YOUR FEET ABOUT THE CODE OF ETHICS, OKAY? WE'RE ALMOST TO THE END. WHAT HAPPENS IF YOUR SPIDER SENSE GOES OFF AND YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, UH, I THINK THERE MAY BE A CONFLICT OR A VIOLATION HERE. YOU TAKE OUT THE GUIDE, YOU GO TO THE CODE, YOU READ THE CODE, AND YOU STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. WHAT DO YOU DO? THEN YOU SEEK AN ADVISORY OPINION. NOW THAT TAKES TIME TO GIVE YOU A WRITTEN ADVISORY OPINION, BUT WHAT IS AN ADVISORY OPINION? YOU GIVE US ALL THE FACTS ABOUT A FUTURE DECISION. WE OUTLINE WHAT YOU CAN DO AND CAN'T DO. IF YOU FOLLOW THE ADVICE, YOU HAVE A SAFE HARBOR. NOT ALL OPINIONS THAT WE GIVE ARE WRITTEN AND FORMAL. A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WILL CALL, AND CAN YOU JUST HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND THE RULE? AND THAT'S FINE, AND THAT WILL GO QUICKER. BE BE AWARE THAT BOARD MEMBERS ARE NOT AWARE OF A CASE UNTIL SEVEN DAYS PRIOR, RIGHT? OUR RULES OF PROCEDURES THAT WE ADOPTED [02:25:01] TWO YEARS AGO WAS THAT THE, THE STAFF WAS TO POST THE AGENDA IN THE CASES SEVEN DAYS PRIOR TO A HEARING. SO THAT'S THE FIRST I'M GONNA PICK ON YOU, KATHLEEN. THAT'S THE FIRST THAT MS. DAVIS EVER KNOWS ABOUT A CASE SEVEN DAYS. NOW, THE OTHER, OTHER POTENTIAL WOULD BE IS IF THIS IN THE, THE LOOKUP LOG BOOK, BUT I'M DOUBTFUL THAT BOARD MEMBERS ARE GOING TO THE WEBSITE AND INDIVIDUALLY SC SCOURING TO SEE THAT. SO MY, MY WHOLE POINT IS THE SEVEN DAYS, THE TRIP WIRE, TYPICALLY WHEN A MR. FINNEY OR MR. SASHING OR MR. AGNES WOULD KNOW, OOPS, THAT, SO IT SAYS SEVEN DAY TIME PERIOD. SO THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I WAS SAYING AS SOON AS YOU GET THIS AGENDA, YOU NEED TO REVIEW IT AND, AND START LOOKING AT IT. AND DO YOUR BEST TO BE PREPARED BECAUSE YOU, YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME. OKAY? SECOND SITUATION THAT MIGHT COME UP, OH, I TOLD YOU HOW IT WORKED. LEMME CLICK THROUGH THESE BULLETS. SECOND THING IS YOU, SPIDER SENSE GOES OFF. YOU TAKE THE GUIDE, YOU READ THE CODE, AND YOU GO, OOH, THERE IS A CONFLICT HERE. WHAT DO YOU DO? THEN? IT'S CALLED RECUSAL. MOST OF YOU KNOW THAT. HOW DOES IT WORK? FROM THE TIME YOU RECOGNIZE THAT YOU HAVE A CONFLICT, YOU RAISE YOUR HAND. HOW DO YOU DO THAT? THE CITY SECRETARY HAS A FORM. YOU FILL THAT OUT. NUMBER ONE, IT'S TWO STEP. MOST THINGS IN THE CODE LIKE THIS ARE TWO STEP. YOU FILL OUT THE CITY SECRETARY'S FORM, YOU INFORM THE BOARD WHAT HAPPENS, AND THEN YOU STOP PARTICIPATING IN IT. YOU DON'T DISCUSS IT. HERE'S WHAT I'VE DONE WITH IT. YOU JUST STOP WORKING ON IT AT THAT POINT. WHEN IT COMES UP BEFORE THE BOARD, YOU CAN'T BE A PART OF DISCUSSION. YOU NEED TO LEAVE, AND THEN YOU COME BACK FOR THE REST OF THE BUSINESS. THAT'S HOW RECUSAL WORKS. THIRD SITUATION IS SPIDER SENSE GOES OFF. GO BACK, GO BACK ONE SLIDE PLEASE. OKAY, HERE WE GO. I'M GONNA USE MR. CANNON AS AN EXAMPLE. UH, HE'S A MEMBER OF PANEL B BAKER AND HE HAD A SITUATION THAT CAME UP A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, AND HE EMAILED ME THAT HE THINKS HE HAD A CONFLICT ON A CASE COMING UP. AND I REPLIED BACK TO HIM AND CARBON COPIED MS. GABO, THE VICE CHAIR. AND I SAID, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP. AND OUR BOARD SECRETARY COMMUNITY SENT HIM A FORM AND HE RECUSED HIMSELF AND BOOM, IT HAPPENED. I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE, I'M NOT PICKING ON YOU, JOE. I'M JUST, I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S, I, IT CAME TO MY MIND. OH, I REMEMBER JOE CONTACTED ME. I IMMEDIATELY MADE SURE THE VICE CHAIR KNOWS, AND THE BOARD SECRETARY KNOWS TO GET, TO GET THE MEMBER TO BE A RECUSED. SO THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT WAS, I'M JUST WANTING TO MAKE SURE WE ALL LIVE IN THAT PROCESS SO WE'RE AWARE OF IT. PERFECT. AND, AND NOW THAT'S A TWO STEP PROCESS. SO THE OTHER STEP IS CITY SECRETARY HAS A FORM AND YOU FILL THAT OUT. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT MS. WILLIAMS HAD SENT TO MR. CANNON AND HE COMPLETED IT AND HE STEPPED AWAY. MR. AGNES HAS A QUESTION. OKAY. SAME AS LAST YEAR. PRO TIP, A PERSON CAN ONLY RECUSE IF THERE'S A CONFLICT. GOT IT. THAT MEANS, HEY, JUST BECAUSE THERE'S AN APPEAR, AN APPEARANCE, BUT NOT AN ACTUAL ONE, UH, DON'T WIMP OUT. YOU HAVE A DUTY TO SIT. RIGHT? OKAY. BUT THEN THE ADVICE IS A PERSON NEEDS TO CONSIDER IF DISCLOSURE MAKES THE MOST SENSE AND PERHAPS FINDING ANOTHER WAY TO HANDLE THE MATTER THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE APPEARANCE ISSUE. I, THAT, THAT'S NOT MUCH IN, OKAY, I CONSIDERED IT. NOW WHAT? , I I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER. I, I JUST KNOW THERE'S NOT A CONFLICT. SO AT WHAT POINT AM I SAFE? SO, SO IN MR. CANNON'S CASE, HE HAD, I'M NOT PAYING. HE HAD AN OWNERSHIP INTEREST, DIDN'T YOU? YEAH, IT WAS, MY PROPERTY WAS WITHIN THEIR NOTIFICATION ZONE. SO THAT, THAT IS POINT BLANK. THAT'S VERY CLEAR. MM-HMM, IN MITCH. AND NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PERCEPTION. HIS, HIS WAS NOT PERCEPTION. HIS WAS REAL. SO LET'S SAY I GOT WHERE, WHERE, ALRIGHT, THERE'S PERCEPTION THAT I'VE THOUGHT OF. MAYBE WE'VE TALKED AND WE'VE JUST, MAYBE WE'VE EVEN GONE THAT FAR AND WE SAID THERE IS NO CONFLICT. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALSO TELLING ME THAT THE, HEY MAN, IF YOU'RE NOT EVEN SURE, JUST REDUCE, UH, RECUSE YOURSELF ISN'T, ISN'T FAIR GAME. YOU'RE SAYING IF YOU, IF YOU KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE A CONFLICT, YOU CAN'T RECUSE YOURSELF, DON'T BE A WIMP. WELL, DOWNSIDE OF NOT BEING A WIMP IS FACING AN ETHICS CHARGE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU, WHEN YOU END UP WINNING OR NOT, IS NOT FUN. UM, SO, SO THE ADVICE YOU'VE GIVEN ME HERE IS TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT IT. AND I DON'T, I'M LOOKING FOR SAFE HARBOR. SO THE SAFE HARBOR IS SEEK AN ADVISORY OPINION. YOU TELL US THE FACTS AND WE'LL WRITE IT DOWN FOR YOU. AND IF YOU FOLLOW THAT, THEN YOU, YOU HAVE A SAFE HARBOR. THE, THE BIG, THE PROBLEM IS THE TIMELINE THAT YOU ALL HAVE, AND AGAIN, BACK TO THE AGENDA. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING THAT SEVEN DAYS IN ADVANCE, WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GET YOU [02:30:01] THAT WRITTEN ADVISORY AS IN TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. THE OTHER OPTION THAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS IS TO SIMPLY JUST DISCLOSE. NOW ALSO, IT'S, IT'S HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS ISN'T JUST WRITTEN FOR YOUR SITUATION, IT'S WRITTEN FOR THE WHOLE CITY. AND SO, YEAH, THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON. SO I'M GONNA GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A DISCLOSURE. AND AGAIN, I WANT THIS INTERACTIVE WITH THE BOARD. SO THERE WAS A CASE THAT CAME UP AND I THINK WE HELD IT OVER. AND THEN I WAS IN A RESTAURANT ON A SUNDAY WITH MY WIFE AT FIRST WATCH AT PRESTON AND FOREST. AND THIS APPLICANT JUST WALKED RIGHT UP TO ME AND SAID, HELLO, MR. NEWMAN, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR YOU HANDLING MY CASE. AND I WENT, WHO IS THIS? AND I WENT, OH MY GOSH, THIS IS A PENDING CASE, . AND I QUICKLY SAID, WE REALLY CANNOT HAVE A CONVERSATION. I'M NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE TO YOU, THAT SORT OF THING. AT THE HEARING THAT CAME UP, I DISCLOSED THAT THE APPLICANT CAME UP TO ME AT A RESTAURANT. IT WAS INADVERTENT. WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE CASE. I ASKED THE APPLICANT NOT TO HAVE ANYTHING ELSE, BUT I PUT IT ON THE RECORD. DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A EXAMPLE THAT THEY WANNA THROW AT THE ETHICS GUY? OKAY, DR. BEL, I'LL GET YOU IN A SECOND THAT YOU WANT TO THROW AT THE ETHICS GUY VERY QUICKLY SO THAT WE ALL CAN LEARN BY IT. ALL RIGHT? I'VE GOT MR. DR. GLOVER, THEN MR. FINNEY, DR. GLOVER. UH, MY QUESTION IS THIS, CAN, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY ADVISE, UH, BOARD MEMBER, UH, AFTER THEY HAVE ACCUSED THEMSELVES THAT THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STILL SIT ON THE BOARD TO HEAR A CASE, UH, BASED ON THEIR JUDGMENT. YOU CAN ALWAYS SEEK, UH, AN ADVISORY OPINION ABOUT FUTURE BEHAVIOR. AND THAT'S KEY TO UNDERSTANDING ADVISORY OPINIONS, IS THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE PAST, IT'S ABOUT FUTURE. SO, UH, IN YOUR SCENARIO IN THE PAST, YOU'VE, YOU'VE RECUSED YOURSELF. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE CODE THAT ADDRESSES WHAT IF YOU REALIZED THAT YOU REALLY DIDN'T HAVE A CONFLICT, BUT YOU USED YOUR BEST JUDGMENT. UM, BUT I THINK, YEAH, SURE. I DON'T SEE WHY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE COULDN'T COME IN BEHIND YOU AND, AND, AND HELP YOU IN THAT WAY ABOUT CAN YOU PARTICIPATE IN THE FUTURE, BUT IN AN ABUNDANCE OF, UH, CAUTION. YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW EVEN IF YOU WERE INCORRECT, YOU HAD A CONFLICT AND SO YOU DID THE RIGHT THING AND YOU RECUSED YOURSELF AND THEN YOU FIND OUT, WELL, I WAS MISTAKEN. I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN THAT'S HAPPENED, BUT I THINK IT'S A FAIR QUESTION. AND I THINK THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WE COULD ADDRESS THAT. THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER. I'VE GOT MR. FINNEY, MR. SLATE, AND I'VE GOT MR. FINNEY, MS. P*****K, AND THEN MR. SLATE. MR. MR. FINNEY. UM, SO LET'S SAY THAT I, UM, ON THE SUBJECT OF APPEARANCES, UM, I WILL SAY I WORK FOR A COMPANY THAT'S REPRESENTING AN APPLICANT ON A CASE THAT'S ASSIGNED TO MY PANEL. UM, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE PARTICULAR CASE OR ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES, OR EVEN ANYONE ON THE CASE, BUT FOR APPEARANCE'S SAKE, UH, AS FAR AS I'M UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU JUST STATED, IS THAT I SHOULD RECUSE MYSELF JUST TO BE SAFE. WELL, IN THE SCENARIO THAT YOU GAVE BEFORE YOU GOT TO APPEARANCE, I THINK APPEARANCE YOU DEFINITELY HAVE. BUT THEN IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT THAT CHART, YOU WOULD FIND A REFERENCE A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. OH, PARDON ME. SO BEFORE YOU EVEN GOT TO RECUSAL, I'D GO TO THAT CHART AND I'D LOOK ON THERE. AND I THINK YOU'RE GONNA FIND REFERENCES TO THREE CODE PROVISIONS THAT YOU MIGHT WANNA LOOK AT. SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IN A BUSINESS WOULD BE ONE. UM, BUT THERE ARE TWO OTHERS. I THINK CHAPTER 22 OUT, UH, CHAPTER 19, OUTSIDE EMPLOYMENT AND READ THROUGH THROUGH THOSE AND SEE IF THEY FIT. AND IF THEY DO FIT, YOU HAVE A, YOU HAVE A CONFLICT AND YOU'RE BE FORCED. BUT, BUT THE SCENARIO THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COULD HAVE A LOT OF DETAILS. AND THE DEVIL ON THESE SITUATIONS IS IN, IN THE DETAILS. SO I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. BUT, BUT USE THAT CHART 'CAUSE WE JUST DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO THROUGH ALL, YOU KNOW, EVERY POSSIBLE FACET. BUT THE CHART IS GONNA SAVE YOU HOURS 'CAUSE THERE'S NO TABLE OF CONTENTS IN THERE. BUT LOOK AT OUTSIDE EMPLOYMENT AND, UH, REPRESENTATION. THOSE ARE BIG TOPICS IN THERE. AND THEY'LL, THEY'LL LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PLACE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MR. FINNEY. I'VE GOT MS. P*****K, THEN MR. SLATE, THEN MR. MS. P*****K. UH, I HAD A SITUATION WHERE A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER CALLED ME AND WANTED TO KNOW THE DISPOSITION OF A PARTICULAR CASE. . THAT'S A BIG, YIKES. THAT IS A BIG YIKES. YES IT IS. SO I CONTACTED VICE CHAIR, AGNE CHAIR OF MY PANEL AND, UH, EXPLAINED THE SITUATION. SO I THINK THE ANSWER IN THIS, IN ALL CASES REALLY IS COMMUNICATION. SO I COMMUNICATED [02:35:01] WITH HIM, AND I BELIEVE YOU MAY HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH CHAIRMAN, UH, NEWMAN. AND, UM, I JUST SENT AN EMAIL TO EVERYONE INVOLVED SAYING THAT I COULD NOT DISCUSS THIS. AND IT WAS AGAINST OUR RULES AND THAT WAS THE END OF IT. SO I THINK WHEN IN DOUBT, COMMUNICATE AND THAT SHOULD HELP TO RESOLVE ANY ISSUE. AND THERE'S A FOOTNOTE TO THAT, AN IMPORTANT ONE WE'LL GET TO RIGHT AT THE END. I WOULD, I WOULD SAY MEMBERS AS A GENERAL RULE, IT'S A BIG TABOO TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH A COUNCIL MEMBER ABOUT ANYTHING THAT'S GOING THROUGH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PROCESS. WOO. I DIDN'T PICK ON ANYONE. I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S A BIG TABOO. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING TODAY, I, I REINFORCED, WE REPRESENT THE CITY, NOT A COUNCILMAN, COUNCIL MEMBER OR A DISTRICT. SO THAT'S A BIG OO. VERY, THAT'S VERY, IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE, MR. CHAIRMAN, I SUSPECT WHAT HAPPENS IS A CONSTITUENT CALLS THEIR COUNCIL MEMBER OR THEIR, THEIR JUNIOR AND THEY REACH OUT TO THE BOARD AND SAY, HEY, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE? 'CAUSE THEY DO THAT WITH ALL THEIR OTHER BOARDS. NO, WELL, AND, AND THEN IT'S INCUMBENT UPON YOU AS A MEMBER TO SAY, I'M, I CANNOT HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT. BECAUSE AS SOON AS THE CONVERSATION GOES INTO DETAIL, YOU JUST COMPROMISED YOURSELF AND YOU. SO IT'S JUST VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE. THANK YOU, MR. AGNE. OKAY, I'VE GOT MR. SLADE AND MR. H, MR. SLADE. UH, THANK YOU CHAIR NEWMAN. SO MY QUESTION CONCERNS THE SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IN PROPERTY COMPONENT. I THINK THIS IS YOUR SLIDE 25. UM, IF YOU LIVE IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT AND A CASE COMES UP THAT INVOLVES THAT CONSERVATION DISTRICT A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE. JARED, PLEASE. THANK YOU. IF YOU LIVE IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT AND A CASE COMES UP THAT INVOLVES THAT CONSERVATION DISTRICT, MUST YOU RECUSE OR NOT THE, THE SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST, I'M NOT THAT FAMILIAR WITH CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, BUT WHAT THE SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST ON PROPERTY HAS GOT SOME LIMITATIONS OR SOME, UH, BRIGHT LINE RULES ABOUT HOW MUCH, UH, INTEREST IN THAT PROPERTY YOU HAVE TO OWN BEFORE YOU ARE CONSIDERED TO HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IN THE PROPERTY. CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THAT? SURE. UM, SO IF I'M LOOKING AT THE SLIDE, IT SAYS THAT YOU MUST RECUSE IF THE, YOU HAVE AN EQUITABLE OR LEGAL OWNERSHIP OF THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OF $2,500 OR MORE. AND SO THE QUESTION IS, IF YOU PERCEIVE A CONSERVATION DISTRICT IS PROTECTING THE VALUE OR IMPACTING THE VALUE OF OTHER PROPERTIES WITHIN THAT CONSERVATION DISTRICT, DO YOU THEN HAVE TO RECUSE IF THERE'S A CASE IN THAT CONSERVATION DISTRICT? BECAUSE ANY RULING ON THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT QUESTION COULD HAVE SOME IMPACT ON YOUR PROPERTY OR THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT AS A WHOLE. OR DO YOU FALL INTO THE DISTINGUISHABLE FROM THE EFFECT ON THE PUBLIC? AND DOES PUBLIC THEN, IS THAT DEFINED TO ONLY MEAN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT MEMBERS OR JUST THE GENERAL PUBLIC AT LARGE? I, I BELIEVE THAT'S SOMETHING I NEED TO, I, I SHOULDN'T ANSWER. I MEAN, BUT I SHOULD GET YOU AN ANSWER. BUT, UH, AS PART OF THE PROCESS OF WRITING ADVISORIES AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, I'D BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT, WE ALSO LOOK AT TEXAS ETHICS COMMISSION, ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINIONS, UH, CASE LAW. AND THIS IS GETTING MORE TECHNICAL THAN I FEEL COMFORTABLE GIVING YOU A FAIR ANSWER ON RIGHT NOW. BUT LET ME GET YOU ONE. WELL, I I THINK THAT'S A LIVE WIRE QUESTION BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN MR. SLATE IS ON PANEL C CHARLIE AND SEVEN DAYS OUT, HE GETS THE, HE EMAIL WITH A DOCKET FROM OUR BOARD, BOARD SECRETARY AND WHAMMO. IF HE LIVES IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. I'M NOT SAYING HE DOES OR DOES NOT. WHAT DOES HE DO? AND THE SEVEN DAY CLOCK'S TICKING. MM-HMM, AND SHAME, SHAME IF HE LETS ME KNOW OR ROBERT KNOW IN SHORT ORDER. 'CAUSE I GOTTA GET AN ALTERNATE TO REPLACE HIM ON THAT CASE. SO IT THAT THAT'S REAL WORLD COMPRESSION TIME FOR US BECAUSE WE WANNA HAVE FIVE MEMBERS ON THAT PANEL TO MAKE A DECISION. SO, UM, AND, AND SO ANYWAY, SO I LOVE THE, I LOVE THE ANALOGY, THE QUESTION, AND I'M NOT SAYING IT'S REAL OR NOT, BUT IT'S A VERY GOOD HYPOTHETICAL. IT, IT REALLY IS. AND BECAUSE I THINK THE, THE CODE IS PROBABLY WRITTEN FOR THE, THE MORE GENERAL SITUATION, BUT THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT WALKS RIGHT INTO IT. AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES ETHICS INTERESTING. I WOULD HOPE IT WOULD NOT IMP IMPLICATE HIM IF HE WAS THAT PERSON, BECAUSE THAT COULD TAKE US OUT IN A LOT OF CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT I DON'T KNOW. MR. KOVI, UM, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS A LITTLE, A LITTLE, UH, DIFFERENTLY THE APPEARANCE OF CONFLICT AND THE EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN, UM, BY MR. FINNEY AND MR. SLADE. [02:40:01] UM, IN THE CASE OF THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, HE FINDS THAT THE CASE COMING IN HIS, WHERE HE LIVES AND IS, UH, BRINGS IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE CITY OF YOUR OFFICE. AND, UH, DECISION IS MADE THAT THERE'S NOT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, WHICH GIVES HIM A SAFE HARBOR. UM, SO HE DOESN'T RECUSE HIMSELF. BUT THEN THE PUBLIC, BECAUSE OF THE OUTCOME OF THE, OF PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THE OUTCOME OF THE BOARD MEETING, ACCUSES HIM OF HAVING A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. MM-HMM, , REPUTATIONALLY, THEN THE BOARD IS AFFECTED. UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW, HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT? WE SQUARE THAT. I THINK WITH THAT, UH, DISCLOSURE OPTION THAT YOU ALWAYS HAVE. AND THIS IS HA I CAN THINK OF ANOTHER SITUATION, NOT TO GET INTO PARTICULARS WHERE, BUT A PERSON HAD AN ADVISORY OPINION IN A SAFE HARBOR, CHOSE NOT TO DISCLOSE, AND IT GOT PICKED UP IN THE PAPERS. A DISCLOSURE WOULD HAVE SOLVED THAT THIS PROBLEM FOR THAT PERSON, BUT JUST WASN'T DONE. IT, IT SANITIZES IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY ABSOLVE, THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION. UNDERSTAND IT WOULD SANITIZE BUT NOT ABSOLVE. JUST LIKE I PROBABLY OVERREACTED BY WHACKING OUT WITH THE GUY IN THE RESTAURANT AND THEN TELLING MY PANEL THAT THIS HAPPENED AND EVERYONE JUST ROLLED THEIR EYES. LIKE, OH, OKAY. 'CAUSE I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE CASE, BUT AT LEAST I MAY HAVE PUT IT ON THE RECORD SO THAT NO ONE LATER COULD SAY, I SAW DAVE NEWMAN TALKING TO THE, THE APPLICANT AT A FIRST WATCH RESTAURANT, THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER. SO IT'S BETTER THAN THE WHOLE CITY ROLLING THEIR EYES. 'CAUSE THEY WON'T KNOW THAT STORY IF YOU HAD NOT HAVE DONE THAT. THAT'S MY VIEW DISCLOSED. OKAY, KEEP GOING. OKAY. OKAY. I'M GONNA LET 'EM KEEP GOING AND THEN I'LL, OKAY, DR. GLOVER, QUICKLY WE GOTTA KEEP MOVING HERE. JUST A REAL QUICK ONE. WELL, THE NOTIFICATION RADIOS OR AREA NOT BE CONSEQUENTIAL IN MAKING A DECISION ON WHETHER, UH, THIS AFFECTS YOU OR YOU NEED TO RECUSE YOURSELF OR NOT. IT, IT WOULD BE, AND THERE'S A SPECIFIC PROVISION IN THE CODE ABOUT WHEN, WHEN THE, THAT'S SPECIFIC TO, UH, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DECISIONS AND YOU HAVING AN OWNERSHIP INTEREST IN A PIECE OF PROPERTY. UH, AND IT'S, THAT WOULD BE A, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A CONFLICT WHEN THAT HAPPENS AND THERE'S A SPEC, IT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES THAT. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT CHART, YOU, YOU'RE GONNA FIND IT IN THE PDF. OKAY, WE ARE JUST ABOUT DONE. NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU SEE A VIOLATION? AND THIS IS THE FOOTNOTE TO WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE ABOUT, UH, SOMEBODY ASKING FOR SOME INFORMATION. HERE'S THE, THE TRICK. THE TRICK IS, IF YOU KNOW THAT THE CODE HAS BEEN VIOLATED, THAT PUTS YOU IN A VERY AWKWARD POSITION. 'CAUSE AT THAT POINT, UNDER THE CODE, YOU HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT THE VIOLATION. NOW, THIS IS IF YOU KNOW, NOT, IF YOU THINK OR YOU BELIEVE OR IT LOOKS LIKE, IF YOU KNOW THERE'S A VIOLATION, YOU HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT IT. HOW DO YOU DO THAT? AND WHO DO YOU DO IT TO? SO HOW DO YOU DO IT? WE'VE GOT A, UH, WE CALL IT THE WHISTLE. YOU BLOW THE WHISTLE, IT'S A HOTLINE. IT'S THIRD PARTY DOESN'T GO TO THE MAYOR, DOESN'T GO TO CITY COUNCIL, IT GOES TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL DIVISION AND THEY BEGIN TO INVESTIGATE IT. WHO DO YOU REPORT TO? THAT'S WHAT'S NOT INTUITIVE. ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT'S NOT INTUITIVE ABOUT THE CODE. YOU GO TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL. WHY DO YOU, WHY DO YOU DO THAT? WELL, UH, YOU SEE MY DOG, FRITZ, FRITZ WAS BLAMED, THIS IS A QUICK, UH, STORY, BUT HE WAS BLAMED FOR TEARING UP THE GARDEN IN MY BACKYARD. I SHARE A GARDEN, UH, IN A BACKYARD WITH MY NEIGHBOR. I CAME HOME ONE DAY, THERE'S THE GARDEN. WE PUT A FENCE AROUND IT, KEEP FRITZ OUT. I CAME HOME ONE DAY, TURNS OUT IT WAS CARL, RIGHT? WHAT'S THE POINT? THE POINT IS, YOU REPORT KNOWN VIOLATIONS TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SO WE CAN INVESTIGATE. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SET UP TO DO. AND A LOT OF TIMES, LET'S SAY 60, 70%, I'M JUST MAKING THAT UP, BUT A LOT OF TIMES WE FIND OUT THE PERSON THAT WE THOUGHT VIOLATED THE CODE, EITHER DIDN'T VIOLATE THE CODE OR IT WASN'T THEM, IT WAS SOMEBODY ELSE. BUT BECAUSE WE HAD IT FIRST, WE CAN CREATE A SHIELD OF CONFIDENTIALITY AROUND THAT ALLEGATION TO KEEP IT OUT OF THE PAPERS AND EVERYWHERE ELSE UNTIL THE INVESTIGATION IS COMPLETE. IF YOU REPORT IT TO ANYONE ELSE, WHAT HAPPENS? WELL, THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACCESS REQUEST CAN BE MADE. AND THAT ALLEGATION THAT TURNS OUT CAN BE FALSE, CAN END UP IN THE PAPER BEFORE IT'S BEEN THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED. AND AGAIN, WHAT HAPPENS THEN? THE MEDIA MOVES ON AND YOU'RE JUST GUILTY AS CHARGED. RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHY THE CODE SAYS IF YOU KNOW OF A VIOLATION, YOU HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT IT AND YOU REPORT IT TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AND, AND LET THEM DEAL WITH IT. THERE'S MY CONTACT INFORMATION. THERE [02:45:01] ARE MORE SLIDES IN THERE THAT I HOPE THAT ARE HELPFUL. MY BEST ADVICE IS JUST READ THROUGH THAT PDF SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THERE AND YOU KNOW HOW IT'S ORGANIZED. AND I'M HOPING THAT AT SOME POINT THAT'S REALLY GONNA HELP YOU. EXCELLENT. QUESTIONS. ONE FOR THE YES, MR. AGNIS. IS A COMPLAINT A SWORN STATEMENT? NO. MUST MUST IN THE SAME WAY A POLICE REPORT WOULD BE. IT'S, IT'S NOT IN THE SAME WAY, UH, OF A POLICE REPORT. THERE ARE PENALTIES THOUGH FOR MAKING A FALSE COMPLAINT. SO IF SOMEBODY KNOWINGLY MAKES A FALSE ACCUSATION THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR THAT. OKAY, MR. CAMON? YES. THIS MIGHT JUST BE MORE OF A STATEMENT. SO KIND OF SPEAKING, UM, ON I GUESS COUNCILMEN OR WOMEN COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, INTERACTION WITH THE BOARD. ONE THING THAT, UM, I, UM, JUST WANNA PUT OUT THERE TO YOU, IT MIGHT, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE MEMBERS' TRAININGS ARE ONCE THEY'RE ONBOARDED, UM, ONCE THEY'RE ELECTED. BUT IT PROBABLY MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF THIS HASN'T BEEN ALREADY FOR THE COUNCIL LIAISONS JUST TO KNOW THE PROPER CHANNELS FOR COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO BE A PART OF THE HEARING PROCESS. UM, THAT WAS, UM, SOMETHING THAT I DID COME ACROSS. IT WAS JUST AN EASY REFERRAL, REACH OUT TO OUR BOARD SECRETARY, UM, FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY TO SPEAK OUT. UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A GAP BETWEEN COUNCIL LIAISONS KNOWING THAT OR NOT KNOWING THAT, BUT JUST KIND OF PUTTING THAT, UM, ON, UM, OUT HERE. 'CAUSE IT'S, IT SEEMED LIKE THAT WAS, IT WAS A, NOT A COMMON OCCURRENCE, BUT JUST A, AN OCCURRENCE THAT DID HAPPEN MORE THAN ONCE. BUT BEING TRANSPARENT THAT IT SEEMS, AT LEAST IN THE COUNCIL MEMBER'S OFFICE, THEY, I GUESS, KNOW THE DIRECT CHANNELS TO, TO COMMUNITY MEMBERS. SO THAT'S A GOOD SUGGESTION. AND I WANT, THANK YOU MR. CANNON. I WANNA RE MR. FINNEY, I'LL COME TO YOU NEXT. IT, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH AN INQUIRY FROM A COUNCIL MEMBER TO A BOARD MEMBER ON A CASE, BUT YOU JUST CAN'T COMMENT ON IT BECAUSE THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE, UM, INTERJECTED YOURSELF OUTSIDE OF THE HEARING PROCESS. SO THAT'S WHAT'S, SO DAN DANGEROUS, YOU'VE INTERJECTED YOURSELF OUTSIDE THE HEARING PROCESS. I'VE GOT MR. FINNEY THEN MR. NRI, MR. FINNEY. UM, OKAY, SO LET'S SAY, UM, I'VE COME TO THE CONCLUSION TO RECUSE MYSELF, UM, AND I'VE SUBMITTED THE FORM TO THE CITY SECRETARY. WE GET TO THE HEARING AND THAT CASE COMES UP. SO THEN I, I'M JUST WANTING CLARIFICATION ON THE PROPER, UH, PROCESS. SO AT THAT POINT, I REUSE MYSELF. DO I MAKE A VERBAL STATEMENT AND SAY I'M RECUSING MYSELF OR DO I JUST EXIT THE ROOM? BECAUSE I'VE SEEN BOTH HAPPEN IN OUR HEARINGS AND I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT THE PROPER, SO IF YOU, IF YOU ARE AWARE OF IT IN ADVANCE, THE PROPER THING THAT I WOULD ASK BOARD MEMBERS TO DO IS TO NOTIFY, FIRST OF ALL YOUR PANEL PRESIDING OFFICER. SURE. YOUR VICE CHAIR. AND SHE OR HE OR I WILL TELL YOU, YOU NEED TO GET THE FORM FILLED OUT BY THE BOARD SECRETARY. SO THEY'LL, THEY'LL PROBABLY PUT IT IN WRITING AND GET THE BOARD SECRETARY TO SEND YOU THE FORM THAT YOU'D FILL OUT. AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER AT THE HEARING WILL DISCLOSE MR. FINNEY'S RECUSING HIMSELF ON CASE NUMBER 1, 2, 3, 4. YOU EXIT THE ROOM. CORRECT. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU FOUND OUT AT, ON THE SPOT. OH MY GOSH. WELL, THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT REAL QUICK AND MAKE SURE THE PRESIDING OFFICER IS AWARE OF IT AND THE BOARD SECRETARY'S AWARE OF IT TO GET THE FORM FILLED OUT AND THEN YOU EXIT THE ROOM. BUT I THINK AGAIN, THE WHOLE THING IS DISCLOSURE, BUT NOT THE BUILDING. YES. NOT THE BUILDING. YOU'RE NOT LEAVING THE BUILDING. THANK YOU MR. AGNES. NOT THE BUILDING, JUST THE HEARING ROOM. OKAY. AM I CORRECT? EXACTLY. MR. NRI? UM, I'M, I'M ACTUALLY GONNA WITHDRAW MY QUESTION. IT WAS IN REGARDS TO A PENDING CITY CHARTER CHANGE. UH, PROPOSITION J BUT I THINK I'VE ANSWERED MY OWN QUESTION, SO, OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. ELIASON AND ETHICS? THIS IS A VERY GOOD BACK AND FORTH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND WE DID INCLUDE YOUR BONUS SLIDES IN THE DECK FOR THEM TO, TO BE ABLE TO, UH, ABSORB AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU WELCOME. WE APPRECIATE IT. WELCOME. IT'S AN ESSENTIAL PART OF OUR JOB TO MAKE SURE WE MAINTAIN FAIRNESS. WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT YEAR FOR SURE. THANK YOU. NEXT IN OUR ITEM, I KNOW WHERE WE STILL HAVE MORE TO GO. THE NEXT SECTION WE'RE GONNA GO TO IS PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS. THE GAME PLAN IS TO GO THROUGH THIS SECTION AND THEN BREAK FOR LUNCH. SO, UM, AND I THINK WE HAVE A POWER ISSUE, ELECTRIC ISSUE. HAS IT COME BACK ON, MR. THEY'RE WORKING ON IT. IS THIS A WAY TO SHUT US DOWN TO TURN OFF THE POWER? OKAY. [02:50:02] I HOPE NOT TOO. YEAH. TURN OFF ELECTRICITY. WELL, WE'RE ALL ON BATTERY POWER, JASON. THAT'S THE PART OF THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW. CERTAINLY THIS WOULD NEVER HA HAPPEN UNDER SARAH MAY'S. REIGN OF TERROR. NEVER. YEAH. BLAME IT ON HER. OKAY. SO, UH, PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, DR. KAMIKA, MILLER HOSKINS, IF YOU WOULD INTRODUCE YOUR TEAM AND THEN, UM, PROCEED WITH YOUR TRAINING SEGMENT. THANK YOU AGAIN. APPRECIATE IT, MR. LYSON. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, I'M DR. CAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS, CHIEF PLANNER AND BOARD ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO, IN TO START OFF WITH INTRODUCTIONS FOR OUR TEAM. OKAY. THAT'S BETTER. MM-HMM, . OKAY. SO I'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR INTRODUCTIONS. UM, WE HAVE TWO SENIOR PLANNERS, UH, MR. BRIAN THOMPSON AND MS. CAMBRIA JORDAN AND OUR SENIOR PLANNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPILING OUR CASE REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS TO, TO PRESENT TO THE BOARD AND CONDUCTING RESEARCH AS NEEDED, AS WELL AS GUIDING, UM, OUR APPLICANTS OR ASSISTING THEM, YOU KNOW, AS NEEDED. WE ALSO HAVE OUR PROJECT COORDINATOR. SO, QUESTION. SO WHEN A CASE IS ACCEPTED OR COMES IN, DO, IS A SENIOR PLANNER ALWAYS ASSIGNED? YES. SO ONCE WE'VE ACCEPTED OUR CASES, THEY'RE RANDOMLY ASSIGNED TO A PANEL AND ALSO RANDOMLY ASSIGNED TO ONE OF OUR SENIOR PLANNERS. OKAY. SO EVERY CASE HAS A PLANNER. YES. EVERY CASE WILL HAVE A PLANNER AND THEY ARE, UM, RESPONSIBLE FOR WORKING DIRECTLY WITH AND OR COMMUNICATING DIRECTLY WITH THE APPLICANT THAT THEY'VE BEEN ASSIGNED TO. UM, WE ALSO HAVE OUR PROJECT COORDINATOR, UM, MS. DIANA . SHE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR COORDINATING, UM, OUR MEETINGS, OUR STAFF MEETINGS AND THINGS OF THAT SORT. AS WELL AS, UM, OUR QUA, SHE'S OUR QUALITY CONTROL EXPERTS. SO WHATEVER DOCUMENTS ARE BEING PUBLISHED OR PRESENTED, SHE'S THAT SECOND SET OF EYES TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING, UM, IS AS IT SHOULD BE. WE ALSO HAVE OUR SENIOR PLAN, SENIOR PLANS EXAMINERS, UM, MS. NORA CASTANEDA AND MS. SARAH ARI. AND THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR PRE-SCREENS, OUR CONSULTATIONS, AS WELL AS OUR INTAKE. AND THEY ARE, UM, HIGHLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE THAT OUR INTAKE DAYS, OUR APPLICATION TO HEARING AND INTAKE DAYS FALL WITHIN THE 60 DAY TIMEFRAME. AND LAST, BUT NOT LEAST, OUR BOARD COORDINATOR, MS. MAYOR WILLIAMS, WHO HANDLES ALL OF OUR, UM, MINUTES SCHEDULING AND COORDINATING OUR, UM, HEARINGS, HAVING OUR AGENDAS POSTED, AND OUR DOCKET IS POSTED AND PRESENTED OR PROVIDED TO, UM, THE BOARD MEMBERS. SO NORA AND SARAH, WOULD YOU RAISE YOUR HAND AGAIN? THESE TWO YOUNG LADIES ARE, ARE THE FRONT DOOR FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR PROPERTY OWNERS THAT HAVE A, A POTENTIAL REQUEST. A REQUEST, AND ONCE IT PASSES THEM, THEN IT EVENTUALLY GETS TO MR. THOMPSON AND MS. JORDAN. CORRECT. IS THAT THE FLOW? YES. OKAY. AND THAT'S IT AT, UM, MS. SARAH MAY HAS ALREADY BEEN, UM, ACKNOWLEDGED AND GIVEN HER INTRODUCTION EARLIER, UM, IN THE MEETING. AND SO I HAVE MR. BRYANT THOMPSON AND MS. SARAH MAY DOWN HERE. THEY'RE GOING TO, UM, ALSO BE A PART OF THE PRESENTATIONS THAT WE'RE GONNA, THAT'S GONNA GIVE TODAY. OKAY. SO MOVING FORWARD TO OUR FIRST PRESENTATION, IT'S, UM, ON PARKING REDUCTIONS. SO THIS IS GOING TO BE THE OVERVIEW. WE'LL TALK ABOUT HOW PARKING IS CALCULATED OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTIONS, WHAT IS AN OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTION, THE TYPES OF OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTIONS THAT WE TYPICALLY SEE, WHICH ARE SPECIAL EX SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, AS WELL AS VARIANCES. AND WE'LL GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF EACH SUMMARY AND QUESTIONS. SO BEFORE WE GET STARTED WITH, UM, OUR PARKING REDUCTIONS, DISCUSSING WHAT A PARKING REDUCTION IS, WE FIRST WANNA MAKE SURE YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND HOW PARKING IS CALCULATED. AND IT'S BASICALLY CALCULATED BASED ON USE, WHETHER IT'S A RETAIL USE, A RESTAURANT OFFICE, OR MULTIFAMILY USE, INDUSTRIAL USE OR WAREHOUSE USE. AND IT'S USUALLY BASED ON THE GROSS FLOOR AREA. AND IN A FORMAT OF ONE SPACE PER HOWEVER MINUTE SQUARE FEET, UM, THAT FLOOR AREA IS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, A RESTAURANT REQUIRES ONE SPACE PER 100 SQUARE FEET. SO IF A RESTAURANT SQUARE FOOT, OR IF THE, THE GROSS FLOOR AREA IS A THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT, THEY'LL NEED 10 PARKING SPACES. SO THAT'S 1000 SQUARE FEET DIVIDED BY A HUNDRED, WHICH GIVES US 10 REQUIRED PARKING SPACES FOR THAT PARTICULAR USE. WHAT IS AN OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTION? [02:55:01] IT'S SIMPLY A CHANGE TO THE NUMBER OF, OF OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED FOR A SPECIFIC USE OR DEVELOPMENT. WE TYPICALLY SEE TWO TYPES OF OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTIONS, AND THEY ARE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES. THE FIRST ONE WE'LL TALK ABOUT IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION PARKING DEMAND. SECTION 51 A DASH 4 3 11 STATES THAT THE BOARD MAY GRANT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO A REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED. IF THE BOARD FINDS THAT AFTER A PUBLIC HEARING, THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THAT USE DOES NOT WARRANT THE NUMBER OF OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED. AND A SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD, AND THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASE TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON ADJACENT OR NEARBY STREETS. WHEN IT COMES TO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, THE MAXIMUM REDUCTION AUTHORIZED BY THAT PARTICULAR SECTION IS 25% OR ONE SPACE, WHICHEVER IS GREATER, MINUS THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES CURRENTLY NOT PROVIDED DUE TO DELTA CREDITS FOR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE USES AND INDUSTRIAL INSIDE USES, THE MAXIMUM REDUCTION AUTHORIZED IS 75% OR ONE SPACE, WHICHEVER ONE, WHICHEVER IS GREATER, MINUS THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. AGAIN, CURRENTLY NOT PROVIDED DUE TO DELTA CREDITS. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT UNDER COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE, UM, DANCE HALLS CANNOT, UM, GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR OFFICE USES. THE MAXIMUM REDUCTION IS 35% ON ONE SPACE, WHICHEVER IS GREATER OR CURRENTLY NOT PROVIDED DUE TO THE USE OF, UM, DELTA CREDITS. SO WHEN IT COMES TO DECISION MAKING, AGAIN, WHEN IT COMES TO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, THE BOARD MAY GRANT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO AUTHORIZE THE NUMBER TO AUTHORIZE A REDUCTION, THE NUMBER OF OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED UNDER THIS ARTICLE. IF THE BOARDS FINDS THAT, AGAIN, THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THE USE DOES NOT WARRANT THE OFF STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED, AND THAT THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASE TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON ADJACENT OR NEARBY STREETS. IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN WE HAVE THESE CASES THAT COME TO US, THERE'S A PARKING DEMAND STUDY, AND EVERY PARKING DEMAND STUDY THAT'S EVER BEEN PRESENTED TO THE BOARD SAYS THEY DON'T NEED ALL THESE SPACES. SO HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THESE STUDIES WHEN THERE'S NEVER BEEN ONE THAT SAYS YOU DO NEED THE SPACES? THOSE THEY'RE SO SMART. I I, I'M JUST AMAZED THAT AN APPLICANT HAS IT AND IT'S USUALLY IT'S COMMERCIAL, HAS HAS THIS NEED. THEY, THEY PAY A, A CONSULTING FIRM TO COME UP WITH A REPORT THAT SAYS, OH, WE NEED THIS AMOUNT, NOT THIS AMOUNT. AND, AND THEN WE'RE SITTING HERE GOING, OKAY, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DISREGARD A PROFESSIONAL REPORT? BUT I'VE NEVER, IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME. SO HOW, HOW DO WE RESPOND TO THAT? I THINK IT'S REALLY, UM, IN THE OPINION OF THE BOARD, IF YOU GUYS ALSO FEEL THAT THAT STUDY, UM, THE PARKING THAT'S GENERATED DOESN'T WARRANT THE AMOUNT OF PARKING NEEDED. BUT I'LL ALSO LET MS. SARAH MAY, UM, OFFER SOME INSIGHT AS WELL. SURE. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. UM, A LOT OF, UH, A LOT OF STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE ON PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND, UH, TRIP GENERATION DEMANDS AND LOTS OF TRAFFIC ENGINEERS SPEND LOTS OF TIME THINKING ABOUT PARKING. AND WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT MOST OF OUR, OR PROBABLY ALL OF OUR RETAIL-ORIENTED OFFICE, UH, USES ALL THOSE KIND OF NON-RESIDENTIAL USES. THEY'RE ALL BASED IN A IDEA THAT IT'S, UH, BLACK FRIDAY AND EVERYBODY'S IN THE PARKING LOT. HOW MANY PARKING SPACES WOULD THAT NEED? AND WHAT WE FOUND OVER TIME THAT, UH, PATTERNS HAVE CHANGED. YOU KNOW, MAYBE BLACK FRIDAY ISN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL ANYMORE FOR WALMART OR WHOEVER. MAYBE THEY DON'T FILL UP THAT, THAT ENTIRE PARKING LOT. AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A LOT OF, UH, STUDIES THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE DON'T NEED THIS MANY PARKING SPACES THAT THEY . SO YOU AGREE WITH, UH, SOME OF THE RAL MEMBERS OF, OF PANEL C IN THAT WE SHOULD APPROVE ALL PARKING REDUCTION REQUESTS REGARDLESS OF ? HE'S JESTING FOR THE RECORD, HE'S JESTING. DR. GLOVER. YES. UM, WELL, WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IS QUITE INTERESTING, BUT, UM, WHAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT IS THE BIGGER PICTURE, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE WE ARE CREATING A PROBLEM FOR THE COMMUNITY. WHAT HAPPENS IN 10 IS THAT PARKING ENFORCEMENT GO AND TICKET THESE PEOPLE, AND IT BECOMES A PROBLEM FOR THEM WHERE WE ARE PENALIZING THEM FOR A PROBLEM WE HAVE CREATED. SO HOW DO WE SOLVE FOR [03:00:01] THAT? I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE FOR A LOT OF OUR RETAIL BUSINESS OWNERS, THEY, THEY HAVE A, UH, AN INCENTIVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN GET CUSTOMERS TO THEIR BUSINESS. YOU KNOW, IF THEY DON'T HAVE CUSTOMERS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE INCOME THAT THEY NEED. SO, UM, SO THERE'S A LOT OF DEBATE RIGHT NOW IN THE PLANNING WORLD. THERE'S LOTS OF CITIES THAT ARE LOOKING AT THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS IF THEY'RE APPROPRIATE OR IF THEY'RE, UM, QUASI, YOU KNOW, RATIONAL OR NOT . AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF DEBATE RIGHT NOW, AND THE CITY OF DALLAS IS ACTUALLY, UM, HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. THERE'S A, A CODE AMENDMENT THAT, UM, CPC EVENTUALLY, UM, WILL BE CONSIDERING ABOUT, UM, ALL OF OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS. AND AT WHAT POINT DO WE NEED TO, UM, DO WE NEED TO UPDATE IT AND REFORM IT AND MAKE SURE IT'S APPROPRIATE? THEN I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THAT, UM, REMEMBER WHEN WE CREATE CODES AND AND AMENDMENTS, THEREFORE THE GENERAL, UM, IT CAN'T COVER EVERY SITUATION. AND SO THESE, UH, THAT COME BEFORE THE BOARD OR THAT FOR THAT SPECIFIC CASE, THAT SPECIFIC LOT, AND WE CAN GET INTO A MORE IN DEPTH LOOK AT THAT, AND THAT'S WHY THOSE CASE STUDIES HELP OUT FOR THAT SPECIFIC LOT. AND SO WHEN THE COMMUNITY COMES OUT AND ADDRESSES THAT, HEY, THIS WILL BE A PROBLEM, AND WE HAVE A PARKING STUDY THAT SAYS IT WILL NOT, THAT'S THE CONFLICT THAT WE COME BEFORE. KEEP GOING MS. ADDITIONAL, UM, DECISION MAKING AND DETERMINING WHETHER TO GRANT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. THE BOARD SHALL ALSO, UM, TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE PARKING SPACE PROVIDED WILL BE REMOTE, SHARED OR PACKED PARKING, THE PARKING, UM, DEMAND AND TRIP GENERATION CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL USES FOR WHICH THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS REQUESTED. WHETHER OR NOT THE SUBJECT PROPERTY OR ANY PROPERTY IN THE GENERAL AREA IS PART OF A MODIFIED DELTA OVERLAY DISTRICT. THE CURRENT AND PROBABLE FUTURE CAPACITIES OF ADJACENT AND NEARBY STREETS BASED ON THE CITY STORE FLOOR PLAN, THE AVAILABILITY OF PUBLIC TRANSIT AND THE LIKELIHOOD OF ITS USE, AS WELL AS THE FEASIBILITY OF PARKING MITIGATION MEASURES AND THE LIKELIHOOD OF THEIR EFFECTIVENESS. UM, SO HERE'S AN, UM, AN EXAMPLE OF A SPECIAL EXCEPTION PARKING REDUCTION EXAMPLE THAT, UM, THE BOARD HAS, UM, SEEN BEFORE. AND THIS USE WAS, UM, IN THE ZONE IR ZONING DISTRICT AND THE PROPOSED USE WAS A COMMUNITY SERVICE CENTER. UM, THE PROPOSED USE SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS NINE 19,275 SQUARE FEET FOR THE COMMUNITY SERVICE CENTER. THE PARKING RATIO FOR THAT PARTICULAR USE IS ONE SPACE PER 200 SQUARE FEET OF FLOOR AREA. SO THE REQUIRED PARKING WAS 96 SPACES. THE APPLICANT WAS REQUESTING A 10% REDUCTION, WHICH ALLOWED THEM TO COME IN FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AS IT WAS BELOW THAT 25% THRESHOLD, THEY WERE PROVIDING 86 OF THE REQUIRED SPACES. OKAY, MS. P*****K HAS A QUESTION. I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE COULD GO BACK WITH, WITH EACH PARTICULAR CASE WHEN THOSE PARKING RE REGULATIONS WERE ENACTED ACCORDING TO, WITH WHAT MS. MAY SAID AND, AND WHAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY BROUGHT UP. I BELIEVE BELIEVE CHAIRMAN NEWMAN, IF A REGULATION HAS BEEN PUT INTO, UM, FORCE 20 YEARS AGO, 30 YEARS AGO, EVEN 15 YEARS AGO, AS FAR AS PARKING IS CONCERNED, LIFE HAS CHANGED SO MUCH. PEOPLE USED TO WORK NINE TO FIVE OR WHATEVER. NOW WE HAVE FLEX TIME, PEOPLE WORK AT HOME. SO I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO RETAIL PARKING, THE DEMAND IS NOT THE SAME AS IT WAS 20 OR 30 YEARS AGO WHEN PEOPLE WOULD, WOULD SHOP AFTER WORK OR GO TO RETAIL, ESTABLISHES ESTABLISHMENTS ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY. PEOPLE ARE NOW GOING TO THOSE COMMERCIAL RELOCATIONS ALL THROUGHOUT THE DAY. SO IF THE PARKING REGULATIONS ARE DIRECTED TOWARDS A BLACK FRIDAY OR CHRISTMAS TIME, IT'S NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO THE MIDDLE OF JULY. LET'S SAY YOU SOUND LIKE YOU COULD BE A PARKING CONSULTANT. I'M SAYING THAT RESPECTFULLY, BUT I, I AGREE. BUT UNTIL THE COUNCIL MAKES A CHANGE, WE ENFORCE AND INTERPRET WHAT THE CODE IS. KEEP GOING. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO, WE'LL NOW MOVE INTO, UM, THE VARIANCE PARKING DEMAND. SO A VARIANCE TO THE PARK PARKING DEMAND IS OFTEN SOUGHT WHEN THE REQUEST EXCEEDS THAT WHICH IS REQUIRED FOR AN OFF STREET PARKING REDUCTION. SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR WHEN A PLAN DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT ALLOW A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. SO ANYTHING ABOVE THAT [03:05:01] 25% THRESHOLD THEN AUTOMATICALLY BECOMES A VARIANCE TO A PARKING DEMAND UNLESS THE, UM, PD, UM, SPECIFIES OTHERWISE. SECTION 51 A DASH 3.102 STATES THAT THE BOARD HAS THE POWER TO GRANT VARIANCES FROM THE DIFFERENT, UM, FRONT YARD, SIDE YARD, REAR YARD, UM, SETBACKS, LOT WITH LOCKED DEPTH LOT COVERAGE FLOOR AREAS, UM, FOR STRUCTURES, ACCESSORIES TO SINGLE FAMILY USES, HEIGHT, MINIMUM SIDEWALKS, AND OFF STREET PARKING OR OFF STREET LOADING. UM, IN THIS, THE VARIANCE, UM, IS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST WHEN ON TO SPECIAL CONDITIONS, A LETTER OF ENFORCEMENT OF THIS CHAPTER WILL RESULT IN UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP AND SO THAT THE SPIRIT OF THE ORDINANCE WILL BE OBSERVED IN SUBSTANTIAL JUSTICE DONE. THE SECOND, UM, STANDARD IS THAT THE VARIANCE IS NECESSARY TO PERMIT DEVELOPMENT OF A SPECIFIC PARCEL OF LAND THAT DIFFERS FROM OTHER PARCELS OF LAND BY BEING OF SUCH RESTRICTIVE AREAS, SHAPE OR SLOPE, THAT IT CANNOT BE DEVELOPED IN A MANNER COMMENSURATE WITH THE, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT UPON OTHER PARCELS OF LAND WITH THE SAME ZONING. AND THE LAST STANDARD IS THAT THE VARIANCE IS NOT GRANTED TO RELIEVE A SELF-CREATED OR PERSONAL HARDSHIP, NOR FOR FINANCIAL REASONS. AND AGAIN, THIS IS WHEN IT'S MORE THAN 25% OR MORE THAN 35%. MORE THAN 25%. MORE THAN 25%. MM-HMM, . SO IT GOES FROM SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO VARIANCE. YES. UNLESS, AND VARIANCE SAYS THE THREE CRITERIA FOR SPECIAL EXPRESSION HAS ONE. WHAT ABOUT OFFICE? 35%. OKAY, SO HERE'S ANOTHER, UM, EXAMPLE FOR VARI, WELL, VARIANCE OF THE PARKING DEMAND. UM, THE PROPOSED USE SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS 1068 SQUARE FEET. PARKING RATIO WAS ONE SPACE PER 300 SQUARE FEET, A FLOOR AREA. THE APPLICANT WAS REQUESTING A 50% REDUCTION, UM, OR TWO SPACES. THEY WERE REQUIRED FOR SPACES BUT ONLY WANTING TO PROVIDE TWO. SO HERE'S A SUMMARY OF A SPECIAL EXCEPTION VERSUS A VARIANCE, A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR REQUEST OF 25% OR LESS. UM, THE DETERMINATION IS IN THE OPINION OF THE BOARD. UM, A STAFF DOES NOT OFFER A RECOMMENDATION WHEN IT COMES TO A VARIANCE REQUEST. THE REQUEST IS 25% OR MORE, OR AS SPECIFIED IN THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT. IT MUST MEET ALL THREE STANDARDS THAT WE RECENTLY, UM, DISCUSSED. AND STAFF DOES OFFER A RECOMMENDATION ON QUESTIONS ON THOSE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD TO OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR ON THE COMPARISON ON SPECIAL EXCEPTION PARKING VERSUS VARIANCE PARKING. OKAY, ONE MORE SEGMENT, THEN I'M GONNA BREAK FOR LUNCH. LUCKY YOU, YOU'RE GONNA, EVERYONE'S GONNA BE FACING YOU DOWN BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY SEE THE CLOCK AND THEY SMELL FOOD. OKAY, MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, THE NEXT ONE, UH, MR. BRYANT THOMPSON WILL REVIEW BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY. THANK YOU. UH, GOOD MORNING. SO TODAY, A LITTLE CLOSER IN THE MICROPHONE PLEASE. THANK YOU. IS THAT BETTER? ALRIGHT, SO GOOD MORNING. UH, WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS, UH, BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY. UM, THE IMPORTANCE OF BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY WHEN BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY APPLIES. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME EXAMPLES AND THE END, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A TEST. ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT IS BLOCK FACE? UM, THE DISTANCE ALONG ONE SIDE OF THE STREET BETWEEN THE NEAREST TWO INTERSECTING STREETS WHERE A STREET DEAD ENDS THE DISTANCE ALONG ONE SIDE OF A STREET BETWEEN THE NEAREST INTERSECTION INTERSECTING STREETS AND THE END OF THE DEAD END STREET. OR WHERE A CENTER LINE CONTAINS A CHANGE OF DIRECTION 90 DEGREES OR MORE. THE DISTANCE OF A STREET BETWEEN EITHER THE NEAREST INTERSECTION STREET OR THE DEAD. END OF THE POINT, DETERMINING THE ANGLE OF THE CHANGE OF DIRECTION. UH, WHAT IS BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY, UH, APPROACH DESIGNED TO PROVIDE UNIFORMITY ALONG STREET FRONTAGES SPECIFICALLY IN AREAS SUCH AS RESIDENTIAL AREAS? UH, WHY IS BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY IMPORTANT? IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS IN KEEPING WITH AND OR THE MAINTAINING OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF SETBACKS ALONG STREET FRONTAGE. UH, WHEN A BLOCK FACE STREET FRONTAGE IS DIVIDED BY MULTIPLE ZONING DISTRICTS, UH, THE FRONT YARD OF THE ENTIRE BLOCK FACE MUST MEET THE REQUIREMENT OF THE DISTRICT WITH THE MOST STRINGED FRONT YARD REQUIREMENT. IF A CORNER LOT, HOLD ON A SECOND. YES SIR. I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. SO THE BLOCK FACE, IF IT'S MULTIPLE ZONING DISTRICTS, IT'S WHICHEVER IS THE MORE RESTRICTIVE. YES SIR. DID EVERYONE ABSORB THAT? THAT'S INTERESTING. OKAY. IF A CORNER LOT IN A [03:10:01] SINGLE FAMILY DUPLEX OR AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT HAS TWO STREET FRONTAGES OF EQUAL DISTANCE, ONE FRONTAGE IS GOVERNED BY THE FRONT YARD REGULATIONS OF THIS SECTION AND THE OTHER FRONTAGE IS GOVERNED BY THE SIDE YARD REGULATIONS. IF A CORNER LOT HAS TWO STREET FRONTAGES OF UNEQUAL DISTANCE, THE SHORTER FRONTAGE IS GOVERNED BY THE FRONT YARD. AND NOTWITHSTANDING THE PROVISIONS OF THE CONTINUITY OF THE ESTABLISHED SETBACK ALONE, UH, STREET FRONTAGE MUST BE MAINTAINED. GLAD I KNOW THE CODE. SO . SO, UH, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME EXAMPLES HERE OF BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY. AND AGAIN, IN THE END WE WILL HAVE A TEST. SO, UH, SO BLOCK FACE RUNS FROM STREET TO STREET. OKAY. AND SO, UM, THE EXAMPLES ARE SHOWING WHERE WE HAVE STREET TO STREET. SO YOU HAVE LOTS 20, STARTING AT LOT 13, GOING TO LOT 24 STREET TO STREET, UP TOP, JUST ABOVE STREET B. UM, SO BELOW ON STREET B YOU HAVE LOTS GOING FROM ONE TO 12 ON STREET A. YOU HAVE LOTS GOING FROM, WHAT IS IT? YEAH. SO IT'S GOING IN REVERSE ORDER. SO 12 DOWN TO ONE ON STREET TWO, WE HAVE LOTS, WE DO HAVE STREET FRONTAGE BECAUSE OF THE LOTS FROM STREET A, THE CORNER AND WE HAVE THREE LOTS FACING IT. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE STREET FRONTAGE. IF YOU NOTICE ON STREET ONE THERE IS NO LINE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A CORNER LOT, THERE IS NO STREET FRONTAGE BECAUSE IT IS THE SHORTER OF THE TWO, UH, FRONTAGES. SO I'M SORRY, IT'S THE LONGER, THE SHORTER CREATES THE FRONT, THE LONGER IT CREATES THE, UH, SIDE. SO QUESTIONS, 'CAUSE I'M GONNA GO OVER THE BLUE, THE RED ON EACH ONE OF THESE. ANY QUESTIONS SHORTER CREATES THE FRONT. SO LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RED DOWN HERE, RIGHT? YEAH. SO LET'S LOOK AT RED FIRST. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. SO RED HAS STREET FRONTAGE ON STREET A AND STREET TWO. WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT? YES, WE DO. OKAY. BASED ON THE CODE ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE, THE SHORTER OF THOSE CREATES, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT EQUAL DISTANCE. THE SHORTER CREATES THE FRONT AND THE LONGER CREATES THE SIDE. SO I SHOULD HAVE 25 NOT WITH STANDING OF CONTINUITY OF BLOCK FACE. RIGHT. AND BECAUSE WE HAVE BLUE ON THE OPPOSITE END AND THOSE GRAY IN BETWEEN, WE HAVE STREET FRONTAGE ON ALL ALONG STREET A FROM BLUE AND THE GRAY. AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY THEY WOULD HAVE THE CONTINU OF THE BLOCK FACE. THIS APPLICANT WOULD HAVE TO COME IN BEFORE US AND REQUEST A, UM, A, A VARIANCE TO THE FRONT YARD SETBACK AND IT WOULD BE OFF OF STREET A. SO BECAUSE CORNER GUY RED HAS WHAT HE HAS, HE SCREWS EVERYTHING UP FOR THE REST OF THE BLOCK. ABSOLUTELY. WOW. BOY, I BET HE'S POPULAR. 1, 3, 3, YES. ONE, TWO AND THREE. ALL L SCREW DID IT. WELL YEAH, BUT IT'S NOT AS OKAY. BUT IN THIS CASE, DESPITE THE FACT THAT NORMALLY THE SHORTER WOULD CREATE THE FRONT LONGER WOULD CREATE THE SIDE, THE SECOND PART OF THAT SENTENCE SAYS, BUT YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE CONTINUITY. SO IT'S, SO THAT'S WHY WE ESSENTIALLY IN THIS CASE, RED HAVE TWO FRONT YARDS, RIGHT? CORRECT. AND SO ALL OUR GRAYS ARE OUR INTERIOR LOTS. SO HOW COME WE THEN, WHY SHOULD IT BE ANY DIFFERENT BY VIRTUE OF TURNING THE RECTANGLE BLUE IN THE TOP RIGHT ESSENTIALLY HAS NO BUILDABLE AREA, RIGHT? BLUE BASICALLY HAS NO BUILDABLE AREA, RIGHT? WELL, I MEAN THE, THE BLACK LINES WERE JUST KIND OF PLACED ON OUR JUST KINDA SHOW STREET FRONTAGE FROM STREET TO STREET. OH, I SEE. NOT, NOT NECESSARILY SETBACK LINES. OH, I'M, THEY DO NOT EQUATE TO, IT'S NOT CALLING A BUILDING LINE. IT'S NOT A BUILDING LINE. YES. NO, THEY'RE NOT BUILDING LINES. WE'RE JUST ONLY IDENTIFYING STREET TO STREET. OKAY. BUT THAT DOES HAPPEN TO WHERE IT DOES LIMIT THE BUILDING LINES BECAUSE OF SAID SETBACK. OKAY, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT STREET ONE, STREET TWO, STREET THREE, AND STREET A AND B. SO THE BLOCKS APPEAR THE SAME. AND SO STREET ONE TO STREET TWO, UM, YOU HAVE STREET FRONTAGE ALONG, UM, THAT'S GOING FROM [03:15:01] A TO B AND THE SAME FROM STREET TWO TO STREET THREE. YOU HAVE STREET FRONTAGE GOING FROM A TO B. THE DIFFERENCE IS OUR ALLEY. AND SO WE GO FROM STREET TO STREET, BUT THE ALLEY DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A STREET. SO THEREFORE THAT CONTINUITY OF THE BLOCK FACE CONTINUES USE, WE IGNORE THAT THE ALLEY EXISTS. YES, IN THIS CASE WE DO. AND SO WHILE THOSE TWO BLOCKS APPEAR THE SAME, BECAUSE WE HAVE AN ALLEY ON STREET A, WE WOULD HAVE CONTINUITY AND ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE BLOCK THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO COME IN. AND SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE AN APPLICANT COMING IN. WELL MY NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET DID NOT HAVE TO COME IN FOR CONTINUITY OF THE BLOCK FACE, BUT I DID. SO IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR RED UP TOP, YOU KNOW, AND THE RED AT THE BOTTOM, ALL OF THOSE ARE CORNER LOTS. AND YES, WE HAVE THE SHORTER AND THE LONGER AND THEN I BLUE IS THE ONE THAT KIND OF TRIGGERS IT FOR BETWEEN STREET ONE AND STREET TWO. UM, SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, UM, SO IN THIS SCENARIO, LOTS ONE AND 18 WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE TYPICAL SIDE YARD SETBACK, UM, AND NOT HAVE TO USE THE FRONT YARD SETBACK ALONG STREET A. THAT IS CORRECT. NEXT SLIDE. NO OTHER QUESTIONS, BUT UM, IF THERE WAS NO ALLEY, UM, THEN AND THE LOTS WERE STILL TURNED THAT WAY ON THAT OTHER, THE ADJACENT BLOCK, THEN LOTS ONE AND 18 WOULD HAVE TO, UH, RESPECT THE FRONT YARD SETBACK. WE WOULD STILL BE THE SAME. I JUST WANTED TO IDENTIFY IN THIS ONE THAT WE DID HAVE AN ALLEY. OH, AND ALLEY DOES NOT CONSTITUTE THE BREAKING OF, IT'S JUST THE ORIENTATION OF THE ADJACENT BLOCK. YES, THIS THE ORIENTATION OF THE LOTS. GOTCHA. OKAY, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SOMETIMES WE HAVE CONTINU OF THE BLOCK FACE BASED ON PLATTED BUILDING LINES. AND SO THE ONLY WAY THAT WE COULD REMOVE THAT WOULD BE THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH SUBDIVISION FIRST AND REMOVE THE PLATTED BUILDING LINES. UM, IN ORDER TO NOT HAVE THAT CONTINUITY. NOW WE STILL MAY HAVE A SCENARIO, UM, WHERE WE HAVE STREET FRONTAGE, UM, ON THOSE, BUT IF WE HAVE PROVIDED BUILDING LINES, YOU CAN STILL HAVE CONTINUITY ALONG SET FACE. SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, DESPITE DEFAULT CODE, IF SOMEBODY HAS PLATTED SOMETHING, THEY CAN, I MEAN IT ALMOST WORKS LIKE A PD, THEY CAN PLAT THEIR OWN BUILDING LINES. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? LIKE, LIKE SOMETIMES YES. FOR EXAMPLE, UM, ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE WE WOULD GO, GO BACK ONE PLEASE. ON THIS SLIDE HERE, WE WOULD GO TO WHATEVER THE BASE ZONING IS, RIGHT? OR IF IT WAS A PART OF A PD, UM, WE WOULD USE THE ZONING REGULATIONS FOR THEIR, ON THE NEXT SLIDE, THOSE SIDE YARD SETBACKS, UH, WOULD BE BASED OFF THOSE PLATS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THOSE COMMUNITIES TOOK TO THAT CONSIDERATION. AND SO YOU MAY HAVE UH, THE MIDDLE LOTS, THE INTERIOR LOTS, UM, THAT TRULY FRONT OR TRULY ARE FRONTS MAY HAVE A SETBACK OF FORWARDING. AND THEN THE ONES THAT WERE ON THE CORNER, UH, THEY REDUCED THEM DOWN TO 20. SO THEY KIND OF TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. SO AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TO HONOR THE 40 FEET, THEY ONLY HAD TO HONOR 20 BECAUSE WE HAVE A PLA BUILDING LINE. SO NOW, NOW DIFFERENT PLATS ARE NOT DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICTS. THAT IS CORRECT. SO LET'S SAY I HAVE A SITUATION WHERE I HAVE PLATTED SOMETHING THAT IS MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN NORMAL. WE CROSS THE STREET AND THERE'S NO PLATTED BUILDING LINES YET. I THINK IN CASE CASE YOU MAY WANNA GO NEXT DOOR 'CAUSE THEN APPLY. 'CAUSE THE MORE RESTRICTIVE PLAT STILL AFFECT THE GUYS WHO NOT ACROSS THE STREET. YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE SAME BLOCK FACE. SO IF I CROSS THE, OKAY, LET'S SAY THERE'S NO STREET. LET'S SAY I GOT TWO DIFFERENT BLOCKS. YES. THAT'S WHY I SAY, SO YOU MAY WANNA SAY NEXT DOOR. SO BASICALLY I COULD, OR SOMEONE ELSE COULD CONTROL THE, THE SETBACKS OF THIS LOT THAT IS PLATTED, MORE RESTRICTIVELY THAN THIS LOT THAT IS CONTIGUOUS. THIS GUY IS STILL CONTROLLED BY THE MORE RESTRICTIVE PLAT, WHICH MAY BE A SELF-CREATED SITUATION. WELL THE HOPE IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULDN'T APPROVE A PLAT THAT DID THAT TO THE REST OF THE LOT. YOU AND I WE'VE ALL SEEN PLATS. YES. THAT'S THE HOPE. THAT IS THE HOPE. ALRIGHT. AND PLATTING IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL FUNCTION. YOU CAN'T LOBBY. IT'S OKAY. SO, SO, UM, I DID WANNA CLARIFY THAT PLATTED BUILDING LINES, THE DEPTH OF THE PLATTING BUILDING LINES WILL [03:20:01] NOT TRANSFER TO YOUR NEIGHBORS. IT'S THE ORIENTATION OF THE LOT. SO IF YOUR SHORTER FRONTAGE IS ON A STREET AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS ON ANOTHER STREET, THEN THAT SHORTER FRONTAGE WILL DICTATE FOR THAT WHOLE BLOCK FACE. UM, IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE EXACT YEAR WAS, UM, WE ADMITTED THE CODE AND WE SAID, HEY, YOU CAN'T ESTABLISH A PLATTED BUILDING LINE THAT HAS A LESSER SETBACK THAN WHAT ZONING REQUIRES. SO WE DO HAVE LOTS OF OLD SUBDIVISIONS IN THE CITY THAT DO HAVE SMALLER PLATTED BUILDING LINES THAN WHAT ZONING REQUIRES. AND I THINK WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO EXPLAIN IS THAT WE STILL HONOR THOSE BECAUSE THEY ARE PLATTED THAT WAY. AND THE CODE WAS CAREFUL TO SAY THOSE ARE STILL EFFECTIVE. BUT, UM, SHOULD SOMEONE NEED RELIEF FROM THAT EVEN SMALLER PLATTED BUILDING LINE THAN WHAT ZONING REQUIRES, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO BOTH A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT VARIANCE FOR THE SETBACK AND REPL THEIR LOT TO REMOVE THE PLATTED BUILDING LINE BECAUSE THE BUILDING LINE ALWAYS CONTROLS BECAUSE IT'S PLATTED. SO THAT'S WHY IT CAN GO. I WANT YOU TO REPEAT THAT. THE BUILDING LINE ALWAYS CONTROLS BECAUSE IT'S 'CAUSE IT'S PLATTED. PLATTED REGARDLESS OF, YEAH. YEAH. SO, UM, SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO BOTH IF THEY ALSO HAVE A PLAID BUILDING LINE, WHICH MAKES IT REALLY COMPLICATED. . OKAY. IS IT QUIZ TIME? IT IS QUIZ TIME. OH MY GOSH. EVERYONE'S GONNA HAVE TO WORK FOR THEIR LUNCH. ABSOLUTELY. SO, SO IF THEY, IF THEY FAIL ON THE QUIZ, THAT MEANS THERE'S NO LUNCH AND YOU'RE GOING FIRST. OH NO. OH NO. I, THE CHAIR DEFERS TO MEMBERS . OKAY, GO AHEAD AND WALK US THROUGH THIS. SO, UM, SO UH, CHAIRMAN, PLEASE SELECT, UM, RED, BLUE OR GREEN AND TELL US WHY OR WHY NOT. THERE'S CONTINUITY TO BLOCK FACE. NOT A CLUE. THAT'S WHERE I HAVE PROFESSIONAL STAFF TOO. , I, I'D CALL CAM UP AND I'D SAY PICK A TELL ME BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, , PICK A COLOR AND WE'LL GO THROUGH IT. WELL, LET'S DO BLUE JUST 'CAUSE I LIKE BLUE. ALL RIGHT, SO BLUE IS A CORNER LOT AND WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT THE SHORTER IS THE FRONT AND THE LONGER IS THE SIDE. SO THE SHORTER IS EAST, WEST, I PRESUME. AND THE LONGER IS NORTH SOUTH. SO THE FRONT YARD, WE WOULD AGREE THE FRONT YARD IS THE SHORT, YOU SAID? YES. AND SO THE CONCERN IS THE LOT BEHIND AZA. UH, THAT WOULD BE ON, I GUESS ISAIAH IS THE STREET FRONTAGE, RIGHT? YES, YES. LIKE THE STREET FRONTAGE. YES. AND A LOT BEHIND THE STREET, UH, TO THE SOUTH. AND SO, SO THE, SO IT WOULD GO EAST, WEST, DOWN IS ISAIAH YES. FOR THAT BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY, CORRECT? YES. AND YOU WOULD POSSIBLY, IT WOULD NOT APPLY, IT WOULD NOT APPLY TO THE STREET IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. I PASS. THANK YOU. I GET LUNCH. ALRIGHT, NORTH IT DOESN'T APPLY. YEAH, YEAH. ALRIGHT. YOU PICK ON, UH, VICE CHAIR. OH, BOTH, BOTH. VICE CHAIRS ARE NEXT. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THREE. THEY'RE GONNA LEAVE BY EXAMPLE. I RECUSE MYSELF. . OKAY. SO MR. AG THIS, YOU'RE NEXT THEN MS. CAMPBELL. ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO. I'LL TAKE, UH, BLUE. OH, WE ARE, WE DONE BLUE. I ALREADY DID BLUE. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. I'LL TAKE GREEN. ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S GO WITH GREEN. DO WE HAVE CONTINUITY? THE BLOCK FACE? SO AGAIN, WE HAVE A CORNER LOT. YEP. AND SO THE SHORT IS THE FRONT, THE LONGER IS THE SIDE. RIGHT. AND I GOT AN ALLEY NORTH. OKAY. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER. SO MY, MY SETBACK THAT IS, THAT IS DERIVED FROM THE SHORT, UH, FROM WHATEVER DRIVE THAT IS FROM REX, FROM REX DRIVE, UH, APPLIES ALONG ROYAL SHIRE NORTH, BUT NOT SOUTH. RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE STREET FRONTAGE ONLY ON A, OH, DON DON'T, DON'T TELL HIM. HE'S GOTTA ANSWER THAT. WELL, I THOUGHT, OKAY, CLARIFY. WHERE'S YOUR STREET FRONTAGE, ROBERT? WELL, I'VE GOT FRONTAGE ON TWO STREETS. OKAY, BUT HE'S SHORTER OR LONGER. THE SHORTER IS WRECKS. SO THAT DICTATES THE FRONT YARD SETBACK. TRUE. OKAY. AND WHAT ABOUT HOWEVER, YOU'RE NEXT TO MY SIDE YARD, WHICH NORMALLY WOULD BE ROYAL SHIRE, RIGHT? UM, BY, UH, TO THE NORTH. SO I'M GONNA IGNORE THIS ALLEY. SO WHAT OUGHT TO BE A SIDE YARD, UH, STILL HAS THE FRONT YARD SETBACK BECAUSE IT'S, SO IN THIS CASE, THE LOT TO THE NORTH [03:25:01] HAS THE SAME IMPLICATIONS AS A, AS THE LOT THAT WE'RE REFERRING TO IN THE GREEN. THAT'S WHAT I MEANT TO SAY. THE, THE SHORTER WOULD BE FACING UHHUH, WAIT, NO, NOT RICK, GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY. THE STREET ABOVE YOU'RE STUMPING THE, THE QUIZ ROYAL CREST. SO THE SHORTER WILL BE FACING ROYAL CREST AND THE LONGER WILL BE FACING THE SAME AS THE GREEN ROYAL SHIRE. SO ROYAL CREST IS UP TOP. ROYAL SHIRE IS THE ONE THAT'S ON THE TOP. OH, CREST UP THERE. OKAY, SORRY. RIGHT. SO WE WOULD NOT HAVE CONTINUITY, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT COUNTRY ON THIS ONE. SO THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO BE TREATED AS A SIDE YARD AND WHATEVER THE ZONING DISTRICT IS FOR THAT AREA, WHETHER IT BE BASED ZONING, PLATTED LINES, OR PD, WE WOULD ONLY APPLY FRONT YARD ON RECS AND ON RHI WE WOULD APPLY SIDE YARD. AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, YES, I'M NOT EATING MS. GABO. I GET RED. THAT'S RIGHT. UM, THAT WOULD'VE TWO FRONT YARD SETBACKS. SEE HOW SIMPLE THAT WAS? YEAH, WE CAN ALL GO EAT NOW, . OKAY, ON THAT NOTE, UH, WE'VE EARNED OUR LUNCH. UH, IT IS 12:35 PM ON THE 29TH OF OCTOBER. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WILL STAND IN RECESS UNTIL 1:15 PM 1:15 PM UM, GO AHEAD AND TURN OFF YOUR, YOUR VIDEO. SO WE'LL COME BACK AT ONE 15. MS. WILLIAMS, WE HAVE LUNCH BEHIND US. SO WE ARE, WE ARE RECESSED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT IS 1:18 PM ON THE 29TH OF OCTOBER, 2024. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS CALLED BACK TO ORDER. UM, HOPEFULLY EVERYONE HAD A, UH, INTERACTIVE, INFORMATIVE MORNING SESSION WHERE WE HAD INTRODUCTIONS. WE HAD, UH, SOME PUBLIC TESTIMONY. WE HAD A LONG AND, AND, UH, INTERACTIVE, UH, VERY INTERESTING, UH, PRESENTATION FROM THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. UM, A LITTLE UPDATE FROM YOUR CHAIRMAN, UH, UH, INFORMATION FROM ETHICS AND SOME EXAMPLES FOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST. UM, AND THEN MS OR DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS GAVE US IN INFORMATION REGARDING HER TEAM PARKING AND BLOCK FACE CONTINUITY. THE BALANCE OF OUR DAY TODAY IS THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE VIA OUR BOARD ATTORNEY THERESA CARLISLE, OUR OUTGOING BOARD ATTORNEY MATT SAPP, AND OUR EMERITUS ATTORNEY, MR. DANIEL MOORE, TALKING TO US ABOUT THE CITY, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CASE LAW, AND TEXAS OPEN MEANING OPEN MEETING ACT. UM, AND THEN WE HAVE ACTION ITEMS, UH, FOR THE BOARD TO REVIEW, MEETING MINUTES, CALENDAR, UH, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, RECOMMENDATIONS AND AMENDMENTS TO RULES OF PROCEDURE. SO, UM, AGAIN, AS IS IN THIS MORNING, PLEASE GET MY ATTENTION IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANNA SPEAK TO. OTHER THAN THAT, I WILL GO TO OUR BOARD ATTORNEY, MS. TERESA CARLISLE. GOOD AFTERNOON. HI. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, AND THANK YOU. YES. UM, I'M SORRY. OKAY, SO WITH ME, I HAVE SOME FAMILIAR FACES AS, UM, MR. CHAIRMAN HAD MENTIONED, IT'S YOUR FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL, UM, MATT SAPP. AND HE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE CITY CODE AUTHORITY RULES OF THE BOARD VARIANCES, FINANCIAL COST OF COMPLIANCE, CONDITIONS FOR VARIANCES, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, AND APPEALS OF ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVES. AND I ALSO HAVE WITH ME MR. DANIEL MOORE, AND HE'LL BE GOING OVER THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT AND I WILL BRIEFLY GO OVER ONE CASE, THE ESCO CASE. AND, UM, THEY WILL PROBABLY BE SERVING IN MY ABSENCE WHENEVER I GO ON MATERNITY LEAVE. SO, UM, YOU'RE, YOU'LL BE IN GOOD HANDS. AND MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, MR. MOORE HAS, UH, AN ITEM AT THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE MEETING UPSTAIRS. SO IF, IF WE COULD, CAN WE TAKE HIS PRESENTATION FIRST SO WE CAN GO ONLY P BECAUSE BECAUSE IT'S THE EMERITUS, BUT DON'T STRETCH IT TOO FAR. I JUST WANNA SAY, IF THE MENENDEZ BROTHERS HAD HAD THIS LEGAL TEAM, WE WOULD NOT BE, THERE YOU GO. OKAY, LET'S NOT GET THERE. MR. MOORE. OKAY. SO YOU, YOU WANTED TO START WITH HIS SECTION FIRST IF WE COULD? OF COURSE. ALRIGHT, SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS WE'RE GONNA START WITH, UM, LET ME FLIP MY PAGE HERE. WE'RE GONNA START WITH A SECTION ON TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS AXIS, WHICH IS PAGE 1 51. PAGE 1 51, MR. MOORE. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. AND MR. SAPP IS PULLING UP THE SLIDES FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE SLIDES THAT I SENT DIDN'T HAVE HEADINGS ON AFTER SLIDE TWO FOR WHATEVER REASON, BUT THERE ARE HEADINGS. AND GIVE MATT JUST A SECOND AND WE'LL PULL UP. I DON'T KNOW, DO YOU GUYS HAVE POWER DOWN THERE? WE DON'T HAVE POWER UP HERE, SO PLEASE DON'T HAVE POWER. OKAY. OKAY. WELL THIS SAYS ON [03:30:01] MY LITTLE HANDY COMPUTER, I'VE GOT 34% LEFT. ALRIGHT, THERE WE GO. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. UM, SO TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. NEXT SLIDE. PLEASE DO. AGAIN, MEMBERS, THIS IS INTERACTIVE, SO IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE GET MY ATTENTION AND I WILL GENTLY INTERRUPT MR. MOORE SO THAT YOU COULD ASK YOUR QUESTION CONCURRENT WITH HIS PRESENTATION. GO AHEAD MR. MOORE. THANK YOU. SO GENERALLY THE RULE IS THAT ANY REGULAR, SPECIAL OR CALLED MEETING MUST BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, AND TOMA APPLIES TO ANY GOVERNMENTAL BODY IN THE STATE. SO YOU CAN THINK OF YOUR STATE AGENCIES DOWN TO YOUR LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT APPLIES TO, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE LEGISLATURE, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THE COURTS, BUT BESIDES THAT, IT APPLIES. AND SO AS THE WAY GOVERNMENTAL BODY IS DEFINED, IT INCLUDES, UM, CITY COUNCILS, IT INCLUDES BOARDS OF ADJUSTMENTS, OTHER CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, A MEETING UNDER TOOMA. I SORT OF THINK ABOUT IT AS A, A MATH PROBLEM. IF YOU HAVE A QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION, YOU HAVE A MEETING AND UNDER TOOMA, YOU MUST NOTICE THAT MEETING. IT MUST BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. SO THAT'S SORT OF THE, THE MATH, UH, PROBLEM IN MY HEAD IS QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION EQUALS MEETING, THEREFORE YOU MUST NOTICE. AND DELIBERATION IS JUST SIMPLY AN EXCHANGE OF ANYTHING THAT IS IN THE BOARD'S, UM, PURVIEW. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S SEE, UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, MATT. SO A, A MEETING IS, UM, DELIBERATION AND DISCUSSION. THOSE ARE SYNONYMS. THE COURTS SAY, AND IT'S ANY EXCHANGE OF WORDS LIKE I MENTIONED. UM, BUT INTERESTINGLY, QUORUMS DON'T HAVE TO BE ESTABLISHED IN REAL TIME. THEY CAN BE DONE VIA EMAIL. SO IF YOU WILL RECALL, MARY, WHEN SHE SENDS OUT EMAILS, SHE BCCS EVERYONE SO THAT YOU ALL CANNOT REPLY TO EACH OTHER AND THEREFORE HAVE A QUORUM. POTENTIALLY, IF YOU'RE DISCUSSING A BUSINESS, THAT WOULD BE A MEETING UNDER TOOMA. SO THAT'S WHY MARY TRIES TO B CCC EVERYONE, SO THAT YOU CANNOT REPLY ALL, SO THAT YOU CAN'T ESTABLISH THAT QUORUM. UM, BUT IF SHE FOR WHATEVER REASON ACCIDENTALLY FORGETS TO BCC, EVERYONE, PLEASE DO NOT REPLY ALL. IT'S THE BANE OF MY EXISTENCE. IT'S, UM, CREATES SOME INTERESTING CONUNDRUMS UNDER, JUST FOR THE RECORD, EARLY ON WHEN DANIEL CAME ON AS OUR BOARD ATTORNEY AND I, AS YOUR CHAIRMAN, I WOULD SEND OUT REGULARLY EMAILS TO THE ENTIRE BOARD. AND THE FIRST TIME I DID, DANIEL CALLED ME WITH A SHRIEK AND SAYING, OH MY GOD, MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU SENT AN EMAIL OUT. I SAID, I BCC'D EVERYONE. AND HE SAID, OH, OKAY. THANK GOODNESS. SO, UH, BUT I'M VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S BLIND CARBON COPY SO PEOPLE CANNOT REPLY ALL. YES. THANK YOU FOR THAT, CHAIRMAN. YEAH, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THOSE ADDITIONAL THINGS TO GIVE ME HEARTBURNS IS REPLY ALL. UM, I THINK THAT'S WHY MICROSOFT OUTLOOK INVENTED IT WAS JUST FOR ME. UM, LET'S SEE, WALKING QUORUMS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, MATT. UH, SO WALKING QUORUMS ARE AN INTERESTING PART OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT AND THEY, LIKE, I'M IN, SO A MEETING IS QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION EQUALS MEETING, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A QUORUM, YOU DON'T MEET THAT MATH PROBLEM. SO GIVE US THE QUORUM MATH FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. SO THE CORE MATH IS 75%, SO DO APPLY THAT TO A PANEL YES. AND APPLY THAT TO THE BOARD, PLEASE. YES. SO THAT EVERYONE, EVERYONE ABSORBS IT. SO ASSUMING ALL 15 MEMBERS ARE APPOINTED, OF WHICH WE'RE 13 RIGHT NOW, BUT A ASSUMING ALL 15 WERE APPOINTED, IT WOULD BE 15 TIMES 75%, WHICH, IF MY MATH IS CORRECT, THAT'S 12. I THINK IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A FRACTION SHORTLY, SLIGHTLY LESS THAN 12, BUT WE WOULD SAY 12 IS THE QUO. AND FOR FIVE I CAN DO THAT. MATH IS, IT'S 11.25. 11.25. SO THE QUORUM WOULD, WE CAN'T HAVE 0.25 OF A PERSON. SO WE SAY THE QUORUM IS 12. FOR WHERE, WHEREAS RIGHT NOW WITH 13 APPOINTED MEMBERS, OUR QUORUM IS 10. MR. ASHTON, ON, ON THE MIC, PLEASE, PLEASE, I'M SORRY. UM, FOR QUORUM PURPOSES, WHY WOULDN'T YOU ROUND DOWN TO, TO THE GREATER, UM, UM, POSSIBILITY THAT YOU MEET QUORUM VERSUS ROUNDING UP? YOU, YOU JUST HAVE, YOU JUST LIKE ROUND UP, BECAUSE THE WAY THE MATH WORKS IS THERE'S THAT QUARTER PERSON, SO 11 IS NOT A QUORUM. LIKE, YEAH, YEAH. SO I BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE, BECAUSE THE, THE DEFINITION [03:35:01] OF A QUORUM SAYS AT LEAST 75%. SO YOU'D HAVE TO ROUND UP. I THINK THAT'S OTHERWISE YEAH. AT LEAST. 'CAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'D BE LESS THAN 75%. YEAH. ALRIGHT, THANKS. OKAY, SO 15 MEMBERS GENERATES A QUORUM OF 11, 11.2 5, 11 2 5, WHICH IS 12. WHICH IS 12. OKAY. WHEREAS US BEING APPOINTED AT 13, OUR QUORUM NOW IS 10. I, I WOULD DOUBLE CHECK THE MATH, BUT OH MY GOD, DON'T SAY THAT. I, I I I TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT. I KNOW MY, MY, UH, YOU KNOW, 9.75 9.75. SO IT'S 10 10. OKAY. THAT'S FOR THE BOARD. WHAT ABOUT FOR A PANEL? FOR A PANEL? IT'S FOUR. I CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT MATH IN MY HEAD. SO, SO ANYTIME THERE ARE FOUR MEMBERS OF ANY PANEL FINISH FOUR, YEAH. FOUR, FOUR MEMBERS OF ANY PANEL DISCUSSING BUSINESS THAT IS, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, VARIANCES, THINGS THAT COME BEFORE THE BOARD, UM, THAT IS A QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION. THAT IS A MEETING UNDER TOOMA THAT HAS TO BE NOTICED. MR. AGNI. MR. AGNI. SO DOES THAT MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT MR. SINGTON AND I ARE ON THE SAME PANEL? IF WE WERE PART OF A GROUP OF FOUR PEOPLE THAT, WHERE THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE WERE ON THE OTHER PANELS, WE'D BE FINE. IT HAS TO BE FOUR MEMBERS OF THE SAME PANEL. SO I JUST WANT, SO YOU HAVE PANEL TWO, PANEL C AND TWO PANEL B, WHATEVER, RIGHT? UH, THAT'S NOT A QUORUM. IT WOULD TAKE FOUR MEMBERS OF ANY ONE PANEL BEING IN THE GROUP. IT WOULD TAKE FOUR MEMBERS OF FOUR 10 PEOPLE IN TOTAL. YES. ALRIGHT. OR ASSUMING THE 13 IS THE APPOINT THE YEAH, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT THE 10 NUMBER CAN VARY BASED ON THE NUMBER OF APPOINTEES AND RESIGNATIONS, I GUESS. OKAY. I'M JUST WANTING TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE ABSORBS, ESPECIALLY THIS WALKING QUORUM THING. YEAH. AND SO WALKING QUORUMS ARE AN INTERESTING SORT OF EXCEPTION TO THE, TO THE MATH FORMULA IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION. BUT AS WE WENT THROUGH QUORUM, UM, IS FOUR. BUT IF YOU, THE WAY THE WALKING QUORUM SECTION IS OUTLINED IS IF YOU ENGAGE IN A SERIES OF COMMUNICATIONS THAT WILL ULTIMATELY BECOME A QUORUM, THAT FOR PURPOSES OF TOMA IS A QUORUM AND IS A MEETING. SO IT COMES OUT OF A CASE FROM SAN ANTONIO WHERE THE MAYOR AND THE CITY MANAGER WERE SITTING IN ONE OF THEIR OFFICES, AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WOULD COME THROUGH AND THEY WOULD TALK, THE THREE OF THEM WOULD TALK TO THE COUNCIL MEMBER AND THEY WOULD SAY, OH, THIS IS HOW I'M GONNA VOTE. AND THEN THE NEXT COUNCIL MEMBER WOULD COME IN AND THEY WOULD JUST DO THAT, AND THEN THEY'D GO TO THE HORSESHOE AND THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, PERFORM THE VOTE THAT THEY HAD ALREADY SECRETLY TAKEN IN THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS GETTING AT. SO IF YOU ENGAGE IN A SERIES OF COMMUNICATIONS WHERE YOU EVENTUALLY REACH A QUORUM, THAT IS A NO-NO. AND THAT IS A MEETING UNDER TOOMA, MR. HAKO. SO LET'S SAY THAT, UM, SO IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE OPERATIVE PART OF THE WALKING QUORUM IS THAT THERE'S SERIAL CONVERSATIONS TAKING PLACE ON THE SAME SUBJECT. YEAH, YEAH. THERE'S SERIAL CON CONVERSATIONS. CORRECT. SO, SO IF I'M TALKING TO ONE OTHER MEMBER OF MY PANEL AND WE HAVE NO INTENTION OR, OR PLAN TO COMMUNICATE WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PANEL, THEN THAT'S OKAY. IS THAT ALL RIGHT? THAT WOULD, THAT THAT IS CORRECT. IF THERE'S TWO OF Y'ALL DISCUSSING THAT IS NOT A QUORUM. UM, AND EVEN IF YOU INTENDED TO ENGAGE IN A SERIES OF COMMUNICATIONS, THAT IS NOT A WALKING QUORUM AT THAT POINT IN TIME. IT'S ONCE YOU ADD THE FOURTH PERSON THAT IT BECOMES, AND IT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO EVEN TO INCLUDE THAT FIRST PERSON WHO MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN. LIKE IF YOU'RE IN CONVERS, IF YOU'RE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH PERSON A AND PERSON A TURNS AROUND TO TALK TO PERSON B WHO TALKS, AND THEN PERSON B TURNS AROUND TO TALK TO PERSON C, NOW YOU HAVE FOUR PEOPLE, RIGHT. A, B, C, AND YOURSELF. AND SO IT GOES BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL, UM, AND THE CONTENT OF THAT CONVERSATION HAS TO BE THE SAME SUBJECT. DOES NOT, IT HAS TO BE, YEAH. RIGHT. IT, YEAH, YEAH. IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, DISAPPOINTED YOU ARE IN THE COWBOYS, THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE. WELL, NO, LET'S BE MORE SPECIFIC. SO I'M TALKING TO ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ABOUT IT. I'M NOT DOING THIS, THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL. I'M TALKING TO ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ABOUT ONE OF THE CASES IN FRONT OF US LATER ON, I TALKED TO ONE OF MY OTHER COLLEAGUES ABOUT ANOTHER CASE THAT'S BEFORE US. [03:40:02] DIFFERENT CASES, TWO SEPARATE CASES, TWO DIFFERENT COLLEAGUES. THAT'S ALLOWED OR THAT'S NOT ALLOWED. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND THE QUE THE ANSWER IS I DON'T THINK WE KNOW AT THIS TIME BECAUSE THE WALKING QUORUM SECTION, UM, WAS RECENTLY CHANGED. I THINK IT WAS IN THE 2019 SESSION AFTER THE TEXAS COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS HELD THAT THE PREVIOUS WALKING QUORUM SECTION WAS UNCONSTITUTIONALLY VAGUE BECAUSE LEGAL REASONS. BUT THE, THE TEXAS COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEAL STRUCK DOWN THE OLD WALKING QUORUM SECTION AND THE LEGISLATURE UPDATED IT TO THE EXISTING SECTION TODAY. AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A TON OF CLARITY FROM THE COURTS. I WOULD JUST CAUTION AGAINST IT AS THE SHORT ANSWER. BUT I DON'T THINK AT THIS POINT IN TIME WE KNOW DEFINITIVELY THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT NOT VIOLATE THIS SECTION, IT THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE CODE OF ETHICS AND THAT YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS OUTSIDE OF A PUBLIC HEARING. SO YOU CAN'T TALK TO OTHER MEMBERS ABOUT A CASE THAT'S COMING BEFORE YOU. I, I GUESS, I GUESS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE IN A BOARD MEETING AND WE TAKE A RECESS AND I SPEAK TO ONE OTHER MEMBER OF MY PANEL ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S BEFORE US. THAT'S IT. THAT'S THE ENTIRETY OF THE CONVERSATION DURING A RECESS OF OUR BOARD MEETING. IT'S NOT SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S, THAT'S NOT PERMISSIBLE. THAT IS CORRECT. UNDER THE CODE OF ETHICS, THAT IS NOT PERMISSIBLE BECAUSE THAT COMMUNICATION HAS TO BE SIMULTANEOUSLY, SIMULTANEOUSLY MADE AVAILABLE TO EVERY OTHER PARTY TO THE MATTER. BUT UNLESS, UNLESS THAT CONVERSATION WAS HYPOTHETICAL, THEORETICAL, AND IF IT'S HYPOTHETICAL AND THEORETICAL, IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO A CASE OR AN APPEAL. HYPOTHETICAL, THEORETICAL. THEORETICAL, THEORETICALLY HYPOTHETICAL. I'M JUST TRYING TO GIVE HIM SOME OXYGEN. RIGHT. BECAUSE IT'S, IF IT'S HYPOTHETICAL, THEN TECHNICALLY IT WOULDN'T BE A TECHNICAL VIOLATION OF THE CODE OF ETHICS. ETHICS. RIGHT. AND SO ALL THAT I THINK ILLUSTRATES MR. KOVI IS THAT, UM, A COMMUNICATION CAN BE LEGAL UNDER TOOMA, BUT COULD STILL BE PROBLEMATIC FOR SOME OTHER REASON. AND NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, MATT. UM, YOU'LL SEE THE, THE FIRST ONE CONDUCTING SECRET DELIBERATIONS. AND, UM, THERE'S A FAMOUS INFAMOUS, COMICAL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THE ADJECTIVE IS TEXAS SUPREME COURT CASE FROM 1990. IT'S ACKER VERSUS TEXAS WATER COMMISSION, WHERE THERE WAS A THREE MEMBER WATER COMMISSION. AND THEY TAKE A RECESS AND TWO OF THE COMMISSIONERS GO INTO THE RESTROOM AND THEY DISCUSS THE CASE IN THE RESTROOM. AND SOMEONE SAYS, HEY, YOU HAD A QUORUM, YOU HAD TWO OF THREE PEOPLE DISCUSSING OFFICIAL BUSINESS. THIS IS A MEETING, THIS WAS ILLEGAL. AND THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT SAYS, YEAH, LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE A QUORUM AND YOU'RE DISCUSSING OFFICIAL BUSINESS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S AT THE RESTROOM DURING THE RECESS OR NOT, THIS IS A MEETING. AND SO THEY NULLIFIED THE DECISION OF THE TEXAS WATER COMMISSION. SO I WOULD SAY WHEN YOU GUYS ARE AT RECESS, WHEN YOU'RE TAKING YOUR LUNCH BREAKS, THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR PROBLEMS THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, AVOID DISCUSSIONS ON SPECIFIC CASES, AVOID QUORUMS AND BECAUSE FOR THAT VERY REASON THAT IT COULD BE CONSIDERED A, A MEETING IF THE, IF THE ELEMENTS ARE, ARE MET. UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, MATT. LET'S, LET'S FINISH THIS LIST. GO BACK PLEASE. OKAY, SORRY. LET'S FINISH THIS LIST, DANIEL. SO, UH, SECRET DELIBERATIONS, GO AHEAD. SECRET DELIBERATIONS THAT COULD, YOU KNOW, A COURT WOULD CHARACTERIZE, UM, THE, THE TWO GENTLEMEN IN THE ACCURATE CASES IN INDU CONDUCTING SECRET DELIBERATIONS. THEY WERE JUST DISCUSSING THE CASE IN THE RESTROOM, BUT THAT'S HOW THE COURT CHARACTERIZED IT AS THAT WAS SECRET DELIBERATIONS, EMAIL COMMUNICATIONS, THE REPLY ALL FUNCTION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE THINGS, UH, PICKING UP THE PHONE AND SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS CASE IS COMING UP. I'M LEANING THIS WAY, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSING THAT BEFORE THE MEETING, THAT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC. AND THEN THE, THE ENGAGING IN A SERIES OF, UM, I'LL GIVE THE BOARD ANOTHER EXAMPLE. UM, I AM VERY CAREFUL AS A PRESIDING OFFICER OF A PANEL AND CHAIRMAN OF YOUR BOARD TO TALK ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE WITH A STAFF MEMBER BEFORE A HEARING. AND I'M PRIVY TO THE, A WORKSHEET THAT COMES OUT THAT SAYS THEY'VE ASSIGNED THESE CASES PER PANEL, AND THAT'S DONE BY OUR BOARD SECRETARY, A, B, AND C. BUT I, OH MY GOODNESS, I I DO NOT GO INTO THE DETAILS OF A CASE WITH, UH, THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR OR [03:45:01] BOARD SECRETARY, BECAUSE THAT, THAT JUST GOES INTO THE, INTO THE BOUNDARIES OF THE STARTING THE DELIBERATION PROCESS. SO IT'S, IF YOU HAD, IF YOU GOT YOUR DOCKET AND YOU HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT DOCKET, YOU REALLY NEED TO WAIT TILL THE HEARING THAT I'M GONNA GO TO YOU IN A SECOND, MR. HOP, YOU REALLY NEED TO WAIT TO THE HEARING, UM, JUST BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THE DELIBERATIONS BEGIN. MR. SO, UH, IF YOU COULD TALK A MINUTE ABOUT THE, THESE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE ABOUT THE CONTENT THAT WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DISCUSS FOR, UH, BECAUSE LET'S SAY THAT WE'RE HAVING A SESSION, AND I HAVE A QUESTION I MIGHT WANT TO ASK, UH, A WITNESS, BUT I AM CONCERNED THAT THE QUESTION MIGHT BE INAPPROPRIATE FOR ME TO ASK, HOW CAN I ASK THAT QUESTION WITHOUT ASKING THE QUESTION IN THE PUBLIC HEARING? I THINK YOU CAN TALK TO YOUR BOARD ATTORNEYS AND YOUR STAFF MEMBERS AND SAY, HEY, I AM CONSIDERING GOING DOWN THIS ROUTE. DO YOU THINK THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS INFORMATION IS HELPFUL IN ME DETERMINING WHAT THE STANDARD IS. I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY APPROPRIATE TO SAY, HEY, BOARD MEMBERS, I'M CONSIDERING, YOU KNOW, ASKING THIS QUESTION. UM, WHAT DO YOU THINK? SO, SO IN THAT CASE THOUGH, THAT DISCUSSION WOULD BE NOT ON THE PUBLIC RECORD, RIGHT? I GUESS. YEAH. I, I GUESS THAT WAS SORT OF HOW I ASSUMED THE, THE QUESTION WAS COMING. YOU SAY IT ON THE PUBLIC RECORD IN A, IN A MEETING CALLED TO ORDER, YOU'RE NOT VIOLATING TOMA. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH. IT BE IMPOSSIBLE. IT'S DURING THE BRIEFING AND YOUR, YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'D BE HELPFUL FOR ME IN DECIDING THIS CASE IF I KNEW X. PRESUMABLY THE APPLICANT IS WATCHING THE BRIEFING AND KNOWS WHEN IT'S THEIR TURN TO PRESENT, WHY THEY'RE ENTITLED TO THEIR VARIANCE OR SPECIAL EXCEPTION. THEY KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER POINT THAT WHOMEVER SAID, I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE KNEW THIS FACT AND MAKING A DECISION AS OPPOSED TO SIMPLY ASKING THE STAFF MEMBER YOUR QUESTION AND THAT APPLICANT CAN STILL KNOW THAT MR. AGNI ASKED THAT QUESTION, BUT I HAVEN'T SAID IT SURE WOULD HELP ME. AND THAT'S THE ONLY DISTINCTION. RIGHT? YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S ONE SOUNDS, I DON'T WANNA SAY RHETORICAL, BUT JUST SORT OF DURING THE BRIEFING, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF I KNEW X AND MR. MR. SINGTON COUNSEL, UM, TO DOVETAIL, UM, MR. KOVI AND, UM, VICE CHAIR ANGUS'S QUESTION, IF HE WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION OR GUIDANCE FROM, FROM COUNSEL AND DID NOT WANT THAT PARTICULAR LINE OF QUESTIONING TO BE ON THE RECORD, SO TO SPEAK, WOULD AT THAT POINT EXECUTIVE SESSION BE REQUIRED OR NECESSARY? OR COULD IT BE A SIDEBAR CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE BOARD MEMBER AND COUNCIL? I THINK SIDEBAR IS THE BEST WAY, AT LEAST INITIALLY. UM, JUST BECAUSE THE ABILITY TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSIONS UNDER TOOMA IS LIMITED AND JUST BASED ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, SORT OF WHAT'S IN ITS PURVIEW. THE, UM, REASON FOR GOING INTO CLOSED SESSION THAT I COULD THINK OF OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WOULD BE CONSULTATION WITH, UM, AN ATTORNEY. YOU GUYS REALLY AREN'T DOING WITH LIKE EMPLOYMENT MATTERS. YOU'RE NOT REALLY PURCHASING LAND OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. UM, SO BECAUSE, AND THEN EVEN, EVEN THEN THE ABILITY TO GO TO CONSULT WITH AN ATTORNEY IS SOMEWHAT LIMITED. SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE, LET'S HAVE A SIDEBAR AND FIGURE OUT IS THIS EXECUTIVE SESSION WORTHY OR IS THIS JUST A CONVERSATION YOU AND I CAN HAVE REAL QUICK? AND I'M SORRY, JUST TO FOLLOW UP, UH, ON THAT. SO IN A PARTICULAR CASE WHERE I'M HAVING A SIDEBAR WITH YOU, UH, DURING GO AHEAD. I'M GONNA MAKE, GO AHEAD. DURING A, A BRIEFING, UM, AND IT'S REQUESTED THAT, HEY, WE'RE AT OPEN SESSION. I SHOULD BE PRIVY TO THE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE OFF THE RECORD. WOULDN'T THAT, DOESN'T THAT CREATE A QUANDARY, I GUESS, UH, SO TO SPEAK? QUANDARY IS A GOOD WORD FOR IT. I THINK IT'S, UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO COME TO ONE OF US, ASSUMING THAT WE WERE ON THE, THE DAIS WITH YOU AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I HAVE THIS QUESTION, DANIEL, RESPECTFULLY, UH, WE WANNA BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT INSTITUTIONALIZING SIDEBARS IN OPEN SESSION BECAUSE IT BECOMES THIS AND THEN THIS. AND WE JUST HAD A SESSION ON ETHICS [03:50:01] AND PERCEPTION, AND IT IS NOT A WISE THING TO INVITE OR ENCOURAGE SIDEBARS IN OPEN SESSION. YEAH. SO I, I'M VERY, I'M VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT THAT. I, AND, AND I GET, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. AND SO IF IT WOULD MAKE THE, THE CHAIR AND THE I BODY, I THINK IT GETS COORDINATED, IT COORDINATED TO THE PRESIDING OFFICER. 'CAUSE THE PRESIDING OFFICER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE, THE ORDERLINESS AND THE FAIRNESS OF THE MEETING. UNDERSTOOD. AND I GUESS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, MR. SINGTON WAS WONDERING LIKE, IS IT AN ANSWER THAT WOULD REQUIRE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION? SO THAT'S WHY. AND IF THE QUESTION, IF IT MIGHT BE EASIER JUST FOR THE QUESTION TO BE ON THE RECORD AND THE RESPONSE BE THAT'S AN ANSWER THAT I CAN GIVE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION. I'M NOT LIKE AS COUNSEL, UH, NOT LIKE THE METAPHORICAL COUNSEL IS, UM, OR YOU OR THE PRESIDING OFFICER RECESSES THE HEARING. THE, WELL, AGAIN, I, I DEFER TO THE PRESIDING OFFICER IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN ORDER AND, AND PROCESS IN THE MEETING. I JUST THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT SIDEBARS. IT CREATES A WHISPER AND IT'S LIKE, WHAT ARE THEY WHISPERING ABOUT? NOT JUST FOR THE AUDIENCE AND THE PUBLIC, BUT FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS. SO, UM, RIGHT, AND THAT, THAT WAS THE REASON FOR THE SECOND QUESTION IS THAT IT, IT GIVES AN APPEARANCE, BUT IT, IT CREATES THAT, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING IN PUBLIC, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SOLICITING COUNSEL'S, UH, ADVICE. BUT THEN IT GIVES A PERCEPTION. SO, BUT, BUT IT MAY NOT NECESSARILY CREATE A, UH, SITUATION WHERE IT WARRANTS A EXECUTIVE SESSION. SO IT, I I STRUGGLE, I I I'M WITH MR. SY, BUT I, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK. I STRUGGLE TO THINK OF A SITUATION WHERE I, I WOULD, WHERE LIKE THE CONSEQUENCE OF, OF AN OPEN SESSION ASKING MAYBE BE RECOGNIZED, UH, MR. MR AND MRS. ATTORNEY, CAN I ASK THIS? I MEAN, I, I DON'T LIKE WHAT, I MEAN, YOU MAY NOT, IT MAY HAVE BEEN BE COMFORTABLE, BUT HELP ME FIGURE OUT A SITUATION WHERE THE, WHERE LIKE THE, THE COST WOULD BE SO HIGH OF ACTUALLY ASKING THE QUESTION YOU WANT TO ASK. JUST AN OPEN SESSION MEMBER MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH, UM, PARTICULAR PERSON THAT'S, UH, THAT'S A, THAT'S A WITNESS OR, UM, HAVE SOME OTHER ASSOCIATION THAT MAY LEAD TO OR LEND TO SOMETHING THAT, THAT MAY BE PERSONAL OR SENSITIVE OR SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME NATURE THAT, UH, OF THAT, THAT MAY NOT WANT TO, THAT YOU MAY NOT WANT TO BREACH OR, UH, EXPLORE IN, IN, IN A PUBLIC FORM. SO LIKE YOUR QUESTION THEN TO THE LAWYER, IF YOU WERE TO ASK IT IN SIDEBAR WOULD BE, WHAT AM I ALLOWED TO SAY THAT THIS GUY DOESN'T MOW HIS LAWN? YOU KNOW, WELL, I MEAN, HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO, HEY, I, I HAVE X RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS PARTICULAR, UM, WITNESS OR APPLICANT ASSOCIATION OKAY. WITH THIS PARTICULAR WITNESS OR APPLICANT. AND I WANT TO RAISE THESE PARTICULAR QUESTIONS, HOWEVER IT MAY CREATE OR AN ETHICAL CIVIL, LIKE WHERE YOU, WHERE YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER YOU SHOULD REFUSE. I, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE, I THINK WE, I I THINK WE'VE, YEAH, YEAH. I, I WE NEED TO KEEP MOVING. SURE. I, I, IF I CAN JUST REAL QUICK, I THINK WE'RE GENERALLY LIKE, I THINK WE'RE CLEVER ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH SCENARIOS. I CAN'T COME UP WITH ONE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I'LL, I'LL, IT, IT, THE ANSWER MAY JUST BE THAT ASK THE QUESTION AND THEN THE RESPONSE FROM YOUR, YOUR AND, AND, AND I WILL AGAIN SAY COORDINATE IT THROUGH YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER. THAT'S THE PERSON THAT BY, BY THE CODE, BY ROBERT RULES OF ORDER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR AN ORDERLY MEETING. AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL USE GOOD JUDGMENT IN, IN RESPONDING AND OR GETTING ADVICE FROM THE BOARD ATTORNEY. UH, BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP MOVING HERE. KEEP GOING, DANIEL. THANK YOU. UH, NEXT SLIDE. MATT, PLEASE. SO IF YOU HAVE THOSE THINGS, UH, A QUORUM PLUS DELIBERATION, YOU HAVE A MEETING AND YOU HAVE TO NOTICE THAT MEETING. SO YOU HAVE TO NOTICE THE DATE, HOUR AND PLACE 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE. SO THE, THE MEETING IN THE THE BATHROOM IS NOT ONE OF THOSE THAT YOU'VE NOTICED 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE. THE REPLY ALL FUNCTION ON EMAIL IS NOT ONE OF THOSE THAT YOU'VE NOTICED 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE. SO THOSE WOULD BE MEETINGS THAT DIDN'T MEET THE NOTICE REQUIREMENT. UM, WE POST THE MEETING NOTICES ONLINE, THEY'RE AVAILABLE RIGHT OUTSIDE THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE. AND IF YOU GO ON THE GROUND FLOOR BY THE BLUE ELEVATOR, THERE'S AN ELECTRONIC BILLBOARD THAT HAS ALL OF THAT. AND BASICALLY THE NOTICES JUST HAVE [03:55:01] TO TELL THE PUBLIC, HEY, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WILL BE CONSIDERING A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AT 1 2 3 MAIN STREET. THAT MEETING WILL TAKE PLACE AT ONE O'CLOCK ON THIS TUESDAY, IT'S AT CITY HALL, COME ON DOWN. AND THAT'S, UH, IT'S CLEARLY NOT AS, UM, CASUAL AS THAT, BUT THAT, THAT'S WHAT THE NOTICE REQUIRES. IT, IT'S NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR SERVICE OF PROCESS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT JUST GENERALLY INFORMS THE PUBLIC THAT THIS PROPERTY OR THIS ITEM WILL BE DISCUSSED. HERE'S THE DATE, HERE'S THE TIME. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, MATT. AND THEN, UH, BECAUSE OF COVID, THE LEGISLATURE UPDATED, UM, THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT TO ALLOW FOR HYBRID VIDEO CONFERENCING. IT ALLOWS THE PUBLIC AND BOARD MEMBERS TO PARTICIPATE VIRTUALLY. HOWEVER, TOMA REQUIRES THAT THE PRESIDING OFFICER BE AT A PLACE THAT THE PUBLIC CAN FI THE PUBLIC CAN PHYSICALLY, UM, SHOW UP TO. SO WE AT LEAST NEED A PRESIDING OFFICER HERE AT CITY HALL TO PRESIDE OVER THE MEETING SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN, UM, BE THERE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR VIDEO AND YOUR CAMERA ON. THESE ARE ALL THINGS I KNOW THAT YOU ALL KNOW AND, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR VIDEO AND CAMERA ON IN ORDER TO BE PRESENT FOR PURPOSES OF TOOMA. AND WHEN THE PUBLIC SPEAKS, THEY HAVE TO, UM, HAVE THEIR VIDEO AND CAMERA ON AS WELL. AND NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. MATT, OTHER GENERAL RULES, YOU CAN'T ADJOURN, UH, THE MEETING MULTIPLE TIMES IN A DAY. YOU CAN RECESS A MEETING, BUT ADJOURN IS SORT OF LIKE A, A MAGICAL WORD. THAT MEANS THE MEETING IS OVER. WE'RE NOT JUST PAUSING IT. UH, YOU HAVE TO VOTE IN PUBLIC. YOU CAN'T DO IT IN SECRET. UM, IF AN ITEM IS FORGOTTEN TO BE POSTED, THE ANSWER IS WE FORGOT TO POST IT. SO THIS CREATES AN INTERESTING SITUATION BECAUSE CHAPTER 51, A EXPRESSLY ALLOWS AN APPLICANT TO COME BEFORE YOU ALL AND SAY, HEY, I'D LIKE A FEE WAIVER, AND THEY CAN DO IT PRIOR TO OR DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING. HOWEVER, IF THEY DO IT DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, YOU ALL CANNOT GRANT IT AT THAT MEETING BECAUSE IT WASN'T ON THE AGENDA. IT'S ITS OWN AGENDA ITEM. SO IT WOULD JUST HAVE TO COME BACK AS A SEPARATE ITEM A SUBSEQUENT MONTH. BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE WEIRD THINGS THAT I DON'T THINK THAT THE DRAFTERS OF 51 A WERE CONSIDERING WHEN THAT WAS DRAFTED. BUT THAT'S JUST SORT OF THE COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCE OF TOMA AND, UM, CHAPTER 51 A TOGETHER. AND THEN FINALLY THERE ARE, AND THIS IS MORE, THE LAST BULLET IS MORE FOR OPEN MICROPHONE SPEAKERS, WHICH IS NOT REALLY SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL DEAL WITH. IT'S MORE OF LIKE A, A COUNCIL THING, BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, FOR YOUR OWN EDIFICATION. UM, OPEN MICROPHONE SPEAKERS CAN OBVIOUSLY SPEAK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE OPEN MICROPHONES AND COUNCIL'S ABILITY TO RESPOND IS LIMITED BECAUSE IT'S NOT A NOTICE ITEM. BUT YOU CAN'T SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, FACTUAL THINGS OR POLICY THINGS OR, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IN OUR MEETINGS, PUBLIC SPEAKERS CAN ONLY SPEAK TO SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA. THAT IS CORRECT. DID I MISHEAR YOU? OKAY, I'M SORRY. THAT, YES. YEAH. WHEREAS THE COUNCIL MEETING, THEY CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING AT COUNCIL, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN OPEN MICROPHONE SECTION THAT IS THE FIRST FIVE PEOPLE, AND THEN AT THE END OF THE MEETING, BUT YOU CAN ALSO SPEAK ON THE ITEMS IN FRONT OF COUNCIL, BUT THIS IS REALLY A, THE LAST BULLET POINT IS REALLY A COUNCIL THING FOR OPEN MICROPHONE DOESN'T REALLY APPLY TO THE BOARD. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, MATT. OUR RULES STATE SPECIFIC TO, UH, PUBLIC TESTIMONIES ALLOWED FOR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA. YES. AND, AND ALL TO TOOMA DOESN'T ACTUALLY REQUIRE AN OPEN MICROPHONE. IT JUST REQUIRES, UH, A LOT, A LOT OF CITY COUNCILS AROUND THE STATE DO IT JUST AS A MATTER OF A WAY TO GET VISIBILITY TO AN ITEM IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCILS. BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED BY TOOMA. THE ONLY THING THAT'S REQUIRED IS THE ABILITY OF THE PUBLIC TO SPEAK ON, ON THE ITEM BEFORE THE BODY VOTES ON IT. UM, CLOSED MEETINGS. SO YOU CAN GO INTO CLOSED MEETINGS. LIKE I SAID, THERE'S SEVERAL, UM, SEVERAL DIFFERENT EXCEPTIONS THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR CLOSED MEETINGS. BUT I THINK THE ONE THAT WOULD REALLY ONLY APPLY, AND YOU CAN SEE THERE'S THE THREE MAIN ONES THERE AT THE BOTTOM. I THINK THE ONE THAT WOULD REALLY ONLY APPLY TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS THE CONSULTING WITH THE ATTORNEY. AND THE WAY YOU GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION IS FIRST YOU HAVE TO CONVENE IN A REGULAR MEETING. SAY YOU'RE GOING INTO A CLOSED SESSION, GO INTO THAT CLOSED SESSION, [04:00:01] LEAVE THE CLOSED SESSION, COME BACK TO THE OPEN MEETING AND AND NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. MATT, WHO MAY ATTEND THE CLOSED MEETINGS. OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNING BODY OR YOU ALL THE GOVERNING BODY IS JUST THE CATCHALL TERM THAT TOOMA USES. THAT WOULD BE YOU ALL, UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE A GOVERNING, GOVERNING BODY UNDER FOR PURPOSES OF TOOMA, BUT IT WOULD BE GOVERNING BODY. IF YOU GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION DECIDING THE, UM, CONSULTATION WITH ATTORNEY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR LAWYER PRESENT. YOU WOULDN'T THINK YOU NEED A COURT CASE ON THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE. UH, YOU GOTTA HAVE YOUR LAWYER PRESENT AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE OTHER STAFF MEMBERS IF THEY ARE ESSENTIAL AS THOUGH THE LANGUAGE THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE USES AND ITS OPINIONS ON WHO CAN ATTEND THOSE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, MATT. AND THEN TOMA REQUIRES THAT YOU TAKE MINUTES OR A TAPE RECORDING OF YOUR MEETING. WE KEEP MINUTES, BUT THEN IF YOU'RE IN CLOSE SESSION, TOMA REQUIRES THAT YOU EITHER HAVE A CERTIFIED AGENDA OR TAPE RECORDING, BUT CHAPTER EIGHT REQUIRES THAT ALL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND THE CITY OF DALLAS HAVE A TAPE RECORDING. SO THAT'S WHY THOSE ARE RECORDED. THOSE TAPE RECORDINGS ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AND ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO BE LISTENED TO BY COURT ORDER. AND THEN, BUT THE GENERAL LIKE RECORDINGS OF BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETINGS ARE ONLINE WITHIN THE NEXT DAY OR SO, AND ANYONE CAN WATCH THOSE. AND I BELIEVE THAT IS ALL I HAVE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. FINNEY? SO JUST TO MAKE SURE I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY, UM, SO ON A RECESS, WE ARE, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK COUNSEL QUESTIONS, IS THAT CORRECT? YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS LIKE I, I ASSUME YOU MEAN LIKE IF ASSUMING I WAS IN MS. CARLISLE'S SEAT, LIKE YOU AND I DISCUSSING A CASE, IS THAT YES, NO, YOU AND I COULD DO THAT. YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT WITH THREE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES. OH, OKAY. GOTCHA. SO DURING RECESS, UM, I CANNOT DISCUSS ANY CLARIFICATIONS. I'M MEETING WITH MY COLLEAGUES, CORRECT. BUT I CAN DISCUSS 'EM DIRECTLY WITH COUNSEL. CORRECT. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE REGARDING TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT AS IT APPLIES TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? THANK YOU DANIEL. MUCH APPRECIATED. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. AND I AM OFF TO PUBLIC SAFETY. I WILL RETURN, IF YOU GUYS ARE STILL GO ARRE, GO ARREST SOMEONE. WE ENFORCE . I DON'T THINK I HAVE QUITE THAT AUTHORITY. MR. POOL, DO WE HAVE ELECTRICITY YET? WE'VE LOST ONE AND I'M DOWN TO 10%. SO WE WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA LOSE OUR MEETING HERE SHORTLY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY POWER. OKAY. UM, THE NEXT PRESENTATION, UM, MS. CARL, IS THAT YOU OR IS THAT MS. MR. SAP? THAT WOULD BE MR. SAP. MR. SAP CHAIRMAN. I CAN GO AS QUICKLY AS YOU LIKE IF WE'RE GONNA LOSE POWER. YOU, UH, NO REGULAR SPEED. UH, I'VE GOT THIS SCREEN, I JUST WON'T BE ABLE TO, IT'S OKAY. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. UH, CHAIRMAN, I, I WANT YOU TO BE THOROUGH AND I WANT US TO BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS. EXCELLENT. UM, AS YOU GUYS ARE AWARE, UH, MY NAME'S MATTHEW SAPP. I'M A FORMER BOARD COUNSEL AND I'LL BE CONDUCTING A BRIEF TRAINING TODAY. AND GOING OVER THE FOLLOWING TOPICS, I'LL BE GOING OVER THE AUTHORITY OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. WE'LL GO OVER THE ROLES OF THE BOARD BRIEFLY, UH, AND WE'LL TOUCH ON THE VARIANCES AND SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS POLICY ANALYSIS AND DO A COMPARE AND CONTRAST BETWEEN THOSE. WE'LL ALSO GET INTO D 10 B, WHICH IS THE FINANCIAL CON CONSIDERATIONS FOR VARIANCES. AND LASTLY, WE'LL GO OVER, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE APPEALS. SO, UH, FIRSTLY I WANNA SAY THAT SOME OF THE INFORMATION I'M GONNA GO OVER IS GONNA SEEM REMEDIAL. UH, MOST OF IT, PROBABLY ALL OF IT YOU GUYS ARE GONNA BE FAMILIAR WITH. HOWEVER, UH, I STILL WANT TO TOUCH ON IT BECAUSE IT GIVES US A THOROUGH AND BROAD UNDERSTANDING OF THE AUTHORITY OF THE BOARD AND THE UNIQUE POWERS THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO YOU GUYS, UH, THAT ARE REALLY UNIQUE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AS DIFFERENT TO THE CPC OR AS DIFFERENT TO THE LANDMARK COMMISSION OR OTHER TYPE OF QUASI-JUDICIAL ENTITIES. UH, SO FIRST UP IS THE CONSTITUTION. SO WE'RE STARTING BACK AT THE VERY BEGINNING, RIGHT? UH, THE, IT'S THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND WAS WRITTEN IN 17 8 89, AND IT INCLUDES THE SEPARATION OF POWERS AND ENSURES DUE PROCESS. AND THE CHAIRMAN MENTIONED EARLIER, HE SAID, UH, FAIRNESS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM. AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS, UH, APROPOS FOR WHAT I'M DISCUSSING IN REGARDS TO DUE PROCESS. BECAUSE IF YOU COULD, UH, TRUNCATE DUE PROCESS, I THINK THAT FAIRNESS WOULD BE LIKE THE, THE MAIN POLICY REASON BEHIND DUE PROCESS IS TO ENSURE FAIRNESS. SO I HAD A LAW PROFESSOR AND HE WOULD ALWAYS SAY, DUE PROCESS IS SIMPLY THE PROCESS THAT IS DUE. AND TO THAT END, THE DUE PROCESS CLAUSE OF THE FIFTH AND THE 14TH AMENDMENT ENSURES THAT SOMEONE IS NOT DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY. PROPERTY IS THE BIG ONE WHERE THERE'S THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THAT'S WHAT WE DEAL WITH PROPERTY. UM, AND [04:05:01] SO THE CONSTITUTION ENSURES THAT LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY IS NOT DEPRIVED WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. SO THIS THING OFTEN INCLUDES NOTICE ISSUES AND, UH, OPPORTUNITY FOR A HEARING. SO YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT. WE DEAL WITH NOTICE ISSUES AND WE DEAL WITH GIVING THE, THE APPLICANT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A HEARING. AND THIS IS ALL SO THAT IT CAN ENSURE DUE PROCESS. NOW, THE FIFTH AMENDMENT THAT FOCUSES ON CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS, SO WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT THAT MUCH, BUT THE 14TH AMENDMENT HAS BEEN CONSTRUED BY COURTS TO PROTECT PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS AND IT ACTS AS A CONDUIT TO CHANNEL THOSE RIGHTS TO THE STATES. SO AS NOTED, THE CONSTITUTION CREATES THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT. YOU GUYS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THIS, YOU KNOW, FEDERAL, UH, THE FEDERAL BRANCH, EXCUSE ME, THE THREE BRANCHES, OF COURSE, ARE THE JUDICIAL EXECUTIVE AND THE LEGISLATIVE AND THE FEDERAL LEGISLATURE RESERVES SOME OF THE RIGHTS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. AND WHAT IT DOESN'T RESERVE, IT FLOWS ONTO THE STATE GOVERNMENTS AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE SIMILARLY RESERVES SOME OF THOSE RIGHTS. AND WHAT IT DOESN'T RESERVE FLOWS ONTO THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS. AND THEN SIMILARLY, THE BOARD, YOU GUYS CAN FURTHER VOLUNTARILY IMPLEMENT YOUR OWN RULES, AND THAT'S WHAT YOUR OWN BOARD RULES ARE. SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE CONCENTRIC CIRCLES, RIGHT? YOU HAVE FEDERAL RULES, STATE RULES, MUNICIPAL RULES, BOARD RULES. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THIS, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SET A GOOD FOUNDATION FOR THE FUTURE DISCUSSION. UM, THE STATE LEGISLATURE IN THE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE IN SECTION TWO 11.008 ALLOWS FOR A MUNICIPALITY CREATE A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. CONSEQUENTLY, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL IN 51, A 3 1 0 2 CREATED THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. NOW I LIKE THIS SLIDE 'CAUSE IT KIND OF ILLUSTRATES COMPARATIVE OF WHAT THE DIFFERENT ROLES ARE. SO THE, THE CHARTER CREATES AND EMPOWERS THE CITY COUNCIL AS THE LEGISLATIVE BODY OF THE CITY WITH THE MAYOR AS THE PRESIDING OFFICER. AND NOW THE CHARTER FURTHER CREATES THE CITY MANAGER WHO ACTS AS THE EXECUTIVE BODY. ADDITIONALLY, THE COUNCIL CREATES SEVERAL QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARDS WHO EFFECTIVELY ACT AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BRANCH, IS WHAT I LIKE TO CALL YOU GUYS. UH, WHEREAS COUNCIL CREATES THE LAWS, THE CITY MANAGERS AND THEIR AGENTS THROUGH THE DEPARTMENTS EXECUTE THOSE LAWS. AND THE QUASI-JUDICIAL BRANCH, YOU GUYS ARE THE DECIDERS. SO YOU GUYS ACT IN A MANNER THAT'S SIMILAR TO AN APPELLATE COURT OR LIKE THE SUPREME COURT SITTING ON BON, UH, THERE ARE THREE MAIN QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARDS NAMING THE LANDMARK COMMISSION, THE CPC AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. NOW THE CPC HAS A BROADER SCOPE AS DEFINED BY CITY CODE. SO THEY HAVE A MULTIFUNCTION MISSION. THEY SERVE AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVING PLANS AND HEARING VARIOUS APPEALS, UM, LIKE FROM THE LANDMARK COMMISSION OR FROM LIKE A PARKLAND DEDICATION BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A, UH, ADVISORY FUNCTION. SO THEY RECOMMEND CDS, HISTORICAL DISTRICT PDS, AND THEN THOSE ULTIMATELY GO UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL, AND THOSE ARE DECIDED. SO THE CPC AND THEIR ADVISORY CAPACITY SUGGESTS ZONING, ZONING RULES, WHICH ARE APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. AND SO ONE OF THE MAIN CHARGES OF CPC IS WHEN A GROUP WANTS TO CREATE A CONSERVATION DISTRICT, A HISTORICAL DISTRICT, OR A PLAN DEVELOPMENT, THEY'LL PETITION CPC AND THEY'LL GET A SPECIAL SET OF ZONING RULES. NOW, IF A PROPERTY OWNER OWNS SO THO, THAT'S FOR PROPERTIES THAT ARE LIKE A DISTRICT, RIGHT? MULTIPLE PROPERTIES. IF YOU OWN A SINGLE PROPERTY AND YOU WANNA BEND THE RULES, NOTICE I DIDN'T SAY CHANGE THE RULES, BUT IF YOU WANNA BEND THE RULES, YOU COME TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THAT'S US. AND THEN THOSE RULES CAN BE ADJUSTED. AND THE REASON I USE THE PHRASE BEND THE RULES RATHER THAN CHANGE THE RULES, IS BECAUSE THE, THE TWO MAIN METHODS, TWO MAIN THINGS THAT COME BEFORE YOU GUYS, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES ARE INCLUDED IN THE CODE. SO, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, YOU KNOW, FOR FENCE HEIGHT, LET'S SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALLOWED FOUR FEET. IF THEY WANTED TO GET A SIX FOOT FENCE, THAT'S ALLOWED, IF THEY WANTED TO GET A 25 FOOT FENCE, THAT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. SO IF YOU SAID, OH, WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU A 25 FOOT FENCE, THAT WOULD BE CHANGING THE RULES. BUT YOU GUYS ARE JUST ALLOWING THE ELASTICITY OF WHAT'S ALREADY IN THE CODE FOR THEM TO ALREADY HAVE WHAT THEY'RE ALREADY ALLOWED TO HAVE. IT JUST HAS TO MEET A CERTAIN STANDARD. AND IN THE CASE OF FENCE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, IT'S THAT IT DOES NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. NOW WHY DO WE ALLOW THIS? MR. HOLD ONE SECOND. MR. POOL POWER CAME BACK ON. SO SOME ELECTION ELECTRIC, UH, ELECTRICIAN PLUGGED SOMETHING IN, OR WE PAID OUR ELECTRIC BILL. EITHER WAY, WE'RE FINE. THANK YOU. SORRY TO INTERRUPT, MATT. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW MR. AGNIS IS GONNA GET HIS LAPTOP BACK. NOT A PROBLEM. . OKAY, PROCEED. CERTAINLY. SO WHY DO WE ALLOW THIS AND WHY DO WE WANT THIS? WELL, WE WANT THE SOCIETY HAS AN INTEREST IN THE COMMON LAW PRINCIPLE OF PROMOTING THE HIGHEST AND BEST LAND USE. AND HOW DOES THE BOARD ACCOMPLISH THIS IS THROUGH, UM, THE ACRONYM THAT I COME UP WITH, VANS, WHICH DEALS WITH THE THINGS THAT BASICALLY COME BEFORE YOU GUYS. AND SO TO, TO REALLY NARROW IT DOWN, IT'S VARIANCES AND SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS ARE THE BIG ONES. BUT YOU ALSO LOOK AT ADMINISTRATIVE APPEALS AND NON-CONFORMING USES. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VARIANCES, UH, THERE'S THREE ELEMENTS THAT ARE BEFORE THE BOARD. ACTUALLY, FIRST I SHOULD DISCUSS LIKE SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE VARIANCE IS. UM, IT DEALS WITH, I LIKE TO THINK OF VARIANCES AS DEALING WITH THE 3D ASPECT [04:10:01] OF THE LOT, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE DEALING WITH FRONT YARD, SIDE YARD, REAL YARD WITH HEIGHT DEPTH. SO THINK OF A 3D IMAGE OF A HOME OR A LOT. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH VARIANCES. BUT YOU ALSO GET TO HAVE SOME ADD-ONS, YOU KNOW, OFF STREET PARKING, LANDSCAPE REGULATIONS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. BUT THERE'S THREE ELEMENTS THAT COME BEFORE THE BOARD WHEN YOU'RE MAKING YOUR ANALYSIS FOR A VARIANCE. AND THAT'S, THAT THE VARIANCE NOT BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST, THAT THERE BE A HARDSHIP, THAT THE HARDSHIP IS EVIDENCED BY THE, A RESTRICTIVE AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE. AND THAT LASTLY, THAT IT'S NOT GRANTED TO RELIEVE A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP. UM, IF THERE'S A, YOU DETERMINE THERE'S NOT A HARDSHIP TO THE LOT, MEANING THERE'S NOT A RESTRICTIVE AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE, BUT THERE IS A PREEXISTING STRUCTURE. SO A BUILDING, UH, YOU NEED TO DETERMINE THE STATUS OF THAT BUILDING, WHETHER IT'S LEGAL, NON-CONFORMING OR ILLEGAL. AND SO A LEGAL STRUCTURE IS ONE THAT WAS BUILT AND IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ASPECTS OF THE CODE. AND SO AS SUCH, IT'S NOT RIPE TO RECEIVE VIOLATIONS FOR CODE COMPLIANCE. SO THINK ABOUT IF CODE COMPLIANCE DRIVES BY YOUR HOUSE AND THEY SEE A LEGAL STRUCTURE, THEY'RE NOT EVEN GONNA STOP BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST GONNA LOOK AT THAT HOUSE AND SAY, WOW, WHAT A BEAUTIFUL HOME. EVERYTHING LOOKS GREAT. NOW, IF YOUR HOUSE IS NONCONFORMING, THEY'RE GOING TO, IT'S, UH, IT'S GONNA BE A STRUCTURE THAT IS NONCOMPLIANT WITH THE CODE, BUT WAS BUILT PRIOR TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CURRENT ZONING RULES. AND SO, UH, YOU KNOW, COLLOQUIALLY, WE'LL SAY THAT'S GRANDFATHERED IN. WE DON'T LIKE TO USE THAT TERM, BUT FOR, UH, LACK OF A BETTER TERM, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. IF A PROPERTY'S GRANDFATHERED IN IT'S NONCONFORMING, WE LIKE TO USE THE PHRASE NONCONFORMING RATHER THAN GRANDFATHERED IN. BUT THAT'S, UH, THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT. AND SO IF CODE COMPLIANCE DRIVES BY YOUR NON-CONFORMING HOUSE, THEY'LL PROBABLY STOP. THEY'LL PROBABLY LOOK AT IT AND GO, HEY, THAT HOUSE LOOKS OUTTA CODE. AND THEN THEY'LL DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH AND THEY'LL SAY, OH, THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1957 AND THE CODE DIDN'T COME AROUND UNTIL 1986. THIS IS GRANDFATHERED, IT'S NON-CONFORMING, AND THEY'RE GONNA DRIVE ON. YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE RIPE TO RECEIVE CODE VIOLATIONS. NOW ON A LEGAL STRUCTURE, ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY'RE GONNA DRIVE BY YOUR HOUSE, THEY'RE GONNA SEE IT, THEY'RE GONNA GO, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? THIS IS WAY OUTTA CODE. IT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT. THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1995. THE CODE WAS FROM 1986. THIS IS CLEARLY IN VIOLATION. IT'S AN ILLEGAL STRUCTURE. UM, AND THAT'S GONNA BE ILLEGAL. SO MOVING ON TO D 10 B, WHICH IS THE LAW THAT'S FORMERLY KNOWN AS HOUSE BILL FORCE 1475. AND THIS ALLOWS FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO USE YOUR DISCRETION AND CONSIDER ELEMENT TWO OF THE VARIANCE STANDARDS TO BE MET IF THE FINANCIAL COST TO COMPLIANCE IS GREATER THAN 50% OF THE APPRAISED VALUE OF THE STRUCTURE AS SHOWN IN THE MOST RECENT TAX ROLLS. AND SO, IF YOU REMEMBER THE, UH, ELEMENT TWO OF THE VARIANCE STANDARD IS THAT IT HAS A HARDSHIP. AND SO THIS IS SAYING, IF YOU CANNOT FIND THAT THE LOT IS A HARDSHIP, IT DOESN'T HAVE A RESTRICTIVE AREA SHAPE OR SLOPE, BUT THERE IS A PROPERTY ON THAT HOME, EXCUSE ME, A PROPERTY ON THAT LOT, A HOME ON THAT LOT . AND, UH, AND THE FINANCIAL COST OF COMPLIANCE IS GREATER THAN 50%, THEN YOU CAN CONSIDER THAT ELEMENT TO MET. AND THERE'S SOME OTHER ONES, LIKE ALSO IF, IF THERE'S A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE, YOU CAN CONSIDER THAT TO BE, UM, THE ELEMENT MET, OR IF COMPLIANCE WOULD RESULT IN A LOSS, WHICH THE STRUCTURE IS LOCATED AT 25% OF THE AREA, YOU CAN CONSIDER THAT AS WELL. MR. AGNIS HAS A QUESTION, CERTAINLY. WELL, UH, SO I'M ACTUALLY GONNA ASK ABOUT NUMBER FOUR. SO WHY DON'T YOU GO THROUGH THREE AND THEN I'LL ASK THANKS. UH, I TOOK THE LIFE OF ME. OH, WELL, THREE IS JUST THAT COMPLIANCE WOULD RESULT IN THE STRUCTURE NOT BEING IN COMPLIANCE. SO FOR ANOTHER AREA OF THE CODE, UM, THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED, YOU COULD TREAT THAT AS A HARDSHIP AND IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO GET IN THAT SITUATION. YEAH. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT FOUR HERE. CERTAINLY. DOES THAT MEAN THAT I COULD INTERPRET A REQUIREMENT ALLAH, TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS RULE? BASICALLY, WOULD I, I'M BASICALLY SAYING THIS WHOLE RULE DICTATES THAT YOU WOULD ENCROACH ON ON SOMETHING ELSE. AND I'M THEREFORE ESSENTIALLY ARGUING THAT THE, THE RULE ITSELF ACROSS THE BOARD IS A HARDSHIP, WHICH NORMALLY WE DON'T, WE DON'T USUALLY THINK OF THE RULES AS THE HARDSHIP. CERTAINLY, I THINK NUMBER FOUR IS ONE OF THE, FIRSTLY, I HAVE NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE WHERE THAT HAS HAPPENED. I, I'M NOT SURE IT COULD HAPPEN BECAUSE JUST THE WAY THE, IT SEEMS SO UNREASONABLE THAT YOU COMPLIANCE WOULD ALLOW YOU TO ENCROACH INTO ANOTHER PERSON'S PROPERTY. YOU'D HAVE ALL SORTS OF CIVIL LAW ASPECTS THAT WOULD COME INTO PLAY THERE THAT I THINK IT WOULD GET REMEDIED BEFORE IT MADE IT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. SO I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU A BETTER ANSWER, BUT UNFORTUNATELY I JUST, I THINK IT'S, UM, ALMOST DONE IN OVERSIGHT THAT LIKE, I, I CAN'T IMAGINE THE SCENARIO WHERE THAT COMES INTO PLAY. UM, BUT WHAT I DID WANNA FOCUS ON WAS, UH, THE FIRST ONE, THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT PEOPLE HAVE EVER BROUGHT TO THE BOARD AND UTILIZED, UM, WHICH IS THE FINANCIAL COST IS GREATER THAN 50%. AND SO I HAVE TWO CASE STUDIES, UH, CASE STUDY A AND I TOOK SOME INFORMATION OUT OF A PROPERTY THAT'S OFF OF SWISS AVENUE, AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL HOME. IT WAS, AND THE MARKET VALUE OF THE HOME TAKEN FROM THE TAX ROLL IS $2.9 MILLION. AND $400,000 IS ATTRIBUTED TO THE LOT. AND ABOUT 2.49 IS ATTRIBUTED [04:15:01] TO THE IMPROVEMENT OR THE STRUCTURE. AND SO WHEN YOU'RE ANALYZING, UH, D 10 B, YOU'D LOOK AT THIS, UH, FAUX INVOICE THAT I CREATED FROM BIG D DEMOLITIONS, AND IT SAYS THAT THE, UH, THE STUFF THAT IT WOULD COST TO BRING IT TO COMPLIANCE IS $274,000. AND YOU'D LOOK AT WHAT 50% OF THE VALUE OF THE HOME IS, AND THE VALUE OF THE HOME, NOT THE HOME AND THE LOT, BUT JUST THE HOME IS ROUGHLY $2.49 MILLION. SO HALF OF THAT WOULD BE $1.24 MILLION. AND THIS BID IS FOR $274,000, WHICH IS LESS THAN 50% OF THE APPRAISED VALUE. SO FOR THIS EXAMPLE, YOU WOULD SAY THIS IS NOT ENOUGH TO USE AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE SECOND ELEMENT OF THE VARIANCE STANDARD. NOW, THE SECOND CASE STUDY, I USE THE SAME HOUSE. SO THE NUMBERS ARE THE SAME AS FAR AS THE, UM, UH, THE EVALUATIONS, IT'S 2.9 MILLION FOR THE TOTAL VALUE. THE LAND'S ROUGHLY $400,000. AND THE, THE STRUCTURE IS 2.49 MILLION. AGAIN, 50% OF THAT IS ROUGHLY 1.248 MILLION. AND THIS BID IS FOR 1.249 MILLION, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY MORE THAN 50%, BUT NONETHELESS GREATER THAN 50% OF THE APPRAISED VALUE. AND SO IF THIS WAS THE NUMBERS THAT CAME BEFORE YOU, YOU COULD USE THIS AND SAY, AH, WE'RE GONNA SAY THAT ELEMENT TWO HAS BEEN MET AND THAT THERE, THIS IS A HARDSHIP. UM, KEEP IN MIND THAT I I, SINCE THAT CAME INTO LAW EXISTENCE, I DON'T, I'VE NOT HEARD OF ANY ONE OF US EVER APPLYING IT. WE HAVE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE. OKAY, WELL THERE YOU GO. ALRIGHT, GOOD. UM, HOWEVER, THE BURDEN IS STILL ON THE APPLICANT, I, UM, TO SHOW THAT COMPLIANCE IS GREATER THAN 50%. SO THE APPLICANT CAN BRING ESTIMATES FROM CONTRACTORS, UM, THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN TESTIMONY, BUT E EVIDENCE IS ULTIMATELY THE DECISION OF THE BOARD. SO THERE'S NO, UM, RULE OF EVIDENCE THAT WE FOLLOW THAT SAYS, WELL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A STATEMENT FROM AN ACCOUNTANT, OR YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS TO BE NOTARIZED. UM, YOU GUYS GET TO USE YOUR OWN DISCRETION TO DETERMINE THE VERACITY OF THAT STATEMENT. MAYBE YOU DON'T THINK THE, THE APPLICANT IS TRUSTWORTHY AND YOU WANT, YOU SAY, LET'S HOLD THIS OVER AND, AND BRING US A STATEMENT SHOWING US SOME, SOME ESTIMATES, OR MAYBE YOU THINK THEY'RE COMPLETELY TRUSTWORTHY AND JUST THEIR TESTIMONY IS ADEQUATE AND YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S YOUR DECISION. UH, FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, YOU KNOW, THERE, THE CITY CODE AUTHORIZES THOUGH THERE ARE 50 TYPES OF SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, BUT THE, THE MOST COMMON ONES ARE FENCE STANDARDS AND ACCESSORY DING UNITS AND ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS THAT, THAT WE SEE BEFORE US. AND THE MOST COMMON DENOMINATOR IS THAT THE, UH, THE LEGAL STANDARD IS THAT IT DOESN'T ADVER OR THAT IT, THAT IT MUST NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. AND SO THE ACRONYM THAT I LIKE TO THINK OF WHEN YOU'RE DOING THAT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF SUB, EXCUSE ME, IS SAM, AND THAT STANDS FOR SAFETY, AESTHETICS AND MONETARY. AND SO THERE'S A, A MULTITUDE OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD LOOK AT TO DO YOUR ANALYSIS WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO DETERMINE WHETHER ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. BUT WE THINK THAT THOSE THREE ARE A GREAT PLACE TO START FROM. SO YOU LOOK AT DOES THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION CREATE OR MITIGATE SAFETY ISSUES, DOES THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION COMPORT AND FIT IN WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND DOES THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION INCREASE OR DECREASE PROPERTY VALUE? AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU GUYS, AS THE BOARD OR THE ARBITER, YOU TAKE ALL THE EVIDENCE, YOU PUT IT IN YOUR SCALES OF JUSTICE AND YOU WEIGH OUT WHETHER THE STANDARD HAS BEEN MET RESPECTFULLY. MR. SAPP? YES, SIR. WHEN I SAW THIS IN THE BRIEFING, I THOUGHT, WOW, I'D NEVER HEARD OF US ESPOUSING A STANDARD TO MEASURE SPECIAL EXCEPTION AS, AS OPPOSED TO SIMPLY NOT ADVERSELY AFFECTING NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. SO REALLY AGAIN, IT'S CASE BY CASE AND THE BOARD PANEL DECIDES WHAT IS THEIR DEFINITION BASED ON WHAT IS PRESENTED ABSOLUTELY IS IS WHAT NOT NECESSARILY SAFETY, AESTHETICS AND MONETARY CORRECT. SO THAT'S JUST LIKE A GOOD STARTING POINT. OH, GOOD FOR LOW THUMB. OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND SO I LIKE TO SAY THAT THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD LOOK AT. OKAY, SO MANY, SO THAT I COULDN'T LIST THEM ALL. AND SO, UH, A SAFE PLACE THAT I LIKE TO START AT ARE THOSE THREE, BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. UM, SO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, WE'VE DISCUSSED SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND, AND VARIANCES NOW. AND SO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS HAVE A LESSER STANDARD THAN A VARIANCE. MR. HOP, MR. KOVIC HAS A QUESTION, CERTAINLY. UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S COME UP A COUPLE TIMES IN MY MIND IN CASES IS SO WHEN WE'RE CONSIDERING AN APPLICATION AND I'LL, I'LL, UH, IF THEY'RE ASKING FOR A, LEMME JUST, UH, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING NECESSARILY BECOME BEFORE US, BUT LET'S SAY SOMEONE COMES IN AND WANTS A VARIANCE, BE ABLE TO PUT IN A NEW WATERLINE OUT SOMEWHERE IN THEIR YARD. IT WOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THEY'D COME TO US, BUT, UH, FOR, BUT ARE YOU ALLOWED TO, ARE YOU HAVE TO ONLY CONSIDER THAT THEY WANT THE WATERLINE? OR CAN YOU CONSIDER WHAT THEY WANT THE WATERLINE FOR? AND WHETHER THAT HAS RAMIFICATIONS ON THE CITY? ARE YOU ONLY SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER [04:20:01] THAT THEY WANT THE WATERLINE? UM, MR. MR. AGNIS SPOKEN? SO IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THE INTENDED USE WOULD BE A CONSEQUENCE OF PUTTING THE LINE IN. AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT WOULD BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE IMMEDIATE PHYSICAL CONSEQUENCE OF BEARING THE LINE. IT SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD BE REASONABLE. I I THINK THE ANSWER, MR. OVITZ, IF I CAN SUMMARIZE, UM, SPECIFICALLY IT, IT'S DIFFICULT TO ANSWER IN REGARDS SPECIFICALLY TO A WATER LINE. WE DON'T DEAL WITH WATER LINES, BUT WITH A VARIANCE. I I I TAKE YOUR POINT TO MEAN LIKE IF THERE WERE SOME, I COULD GIVE YOU A SPECIFIC CASE PERIPHERAL EFFECT THAT CAME BEFORE US PER THE, OF THE, THE ITEM THAT THAT WOULD CAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT YES, BECAUSE BOTH STANDARDS HAVE A, UH, ELEMENT AND THE NEXT SLIDE WILL KIND OF GET INTO THIS, WHERE YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS FAIR TO THE PUBLIC, RIGHT? SO IN FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, YOU'RE ASKING DOES IT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IN A VARIANCE, YOU'RE SAYING, IS THIS CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST? I THINK THAT BOTH OF THOSE DEAL WITH WHAT IS FAIR TO THE PUBLIC AND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SOME SORT OF PERIPHERAL EFFECT OF THE SUBJECT THAT WOULD AFFECT THE PUBLIC. AND SO IF THAT WOULD AFFECT THE PUBLIC, THEN YES, THAT WOULD BE VALID FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, WHETHER IT BE A VARIANCE OR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR, IT COULD BE AN ANCILLARY EFFECT OF WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR. I MEAN, WITHIN REASON. CERTAINLY, YES. AND, AND I, I DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION OF HOW CLOSE TO AN ANCILLARY ANCILLARY EFFECT IT NEEDS TO BE. IT CAN'T BE SO ATTENUATED THAT IT WOULD BE UNREASONABLE, BUT CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT LIKE, UM, AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, WE RUN INTO THIS PROBLEM WHEN WE'RE DOING QUESTION AND ANSWERS, IS THAT I WANNA GIVE YOU THE BEST ANSWER I CAN AND WITHOUT A SPECIFIC SET OF FACTS, IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO THAT. AND THEN IF WE START PLAYING THE WHAT IF GAME, WE COULD BE HERE ALL DAY. UM, BUT I THINK THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS YES, YOU CAN TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT SO LONG AS THAT IS NOT SO ATTENUATED THAT IT BECOMES UNREASONABLE. SO I CAN I I'LL ASK YOU IN A DIFFERENT WAY. SOMEONE COMES TO US AND WANTS TO BUILD A DOGHOUSE, A DOGHOUSE, A DOG HOUSE THAT SOMEHOW REQUIRES A, A VARIANCE IN THE CITY CODE. THEY WANNA BUILD A SPECTACULAR DOGHOUSE, OR WE ALLOWED TO CONSIDER THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE DOG. WELL, FOR THAT ONE, I WOULD SAY NO BECAUSE LIKE PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE DOGS AND SO LIKE THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE A DOG. AND SO THAT WOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, THAT WOULDN'T, LET'S SAY THE DOG HOUSE WAS GONNA BE CONSTRUCTED IN A WAY THAT THE DOG COULD GET OUT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD BY THE DOG HOUSE. I, I, I I, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE APPLICABLE IN THIS, THAT PARTICULAR SCENARIO BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE DOGS BY RIGHT. OKAY. BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU'RE, IT'S THE TO GRANT VARIANCES. SO THE STANDARD SAYS THE VARIANCE IS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST. SO IS IT THE SIDE YARD SETBACK? IS THAT CONTRARY NOT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD. LIKE IF YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD A BIGGER HOME, OR YOU'RE TRYING TO HAVE A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE AND YOU WANT THE THE LINE EXTENDED, YOU CAN'T, IT'S WHETHER OR NOT EXTENDING THAT SETBACK IS WHAT YOU NEED TO CONSIDER. NOT THAT THEY'RE BUILDING A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE. WE'RE STILL ON SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. AND THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS SIMPLY NOT ADVERSELY, ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. AND THAT'S A JUDGMENT CALL, NO STAFF RECOMMENDATION, CORRECT? CORRECT. THAT'S IT. NOW, SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SUGGESTED ARE PLACES TO START, BUT EACH PANEL, EACH BOARD MAKES THAT DECISION BASED ON THE FACTS PRESENTED. CORRECT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. CONTINUE PLEASE. THANK YOU. SO AS NOTED, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS HAVE A LESSER STANDARD THAN VARIANCES. 'CAUSE WHEREAS SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS ONLY REQUIRE ONE ELEMENT TO BE ANALYZED, THE VARIANCE REQUIRES THREE. SO AS A RESULT OF THIS, THE VARIANCE IS A HIGHER HURDLE THAN A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. SO THIS IS MY FAVORITE SLIDE. THIS REQUIRES ALL THREE, NOT ONE OF THREE OR TWO OF THREE. THAT'S CORRECT. AND SO WHEN WE LOOK AT, UM, THIS SLIDE HERE, WHEN COUNCIL CREATED THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES, THERE WERE THREE ESSENTIAL POLICY QUESTIONS AT THE ROOT OF THEIR CONCERN. SO NAMELY, THEY ASKED, IS IT FAIR TO THE PUBLIC? IS IT FAIR TO THE APPLICANT? AND THEN LASTLY THEY ASKED WHY. SO WHEN ASKING THE FIRST QUESTION FOR A VARIANCE, THE COUNCIL MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THE STANDARD TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS FAIR TO THE PUBLIC IS THAT THE REQUEST BE NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST. AND SIMILAR TO THE STANDARD FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, ASKED THAT THE REQUEST NOT BE ADVERSELY AFFECTING NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. SO THIS IS WHAT I WAS SPEAKING ABOUT JUST A MOMENT AGO WHEN I SAID, UH, THIS IS YES, SIR, INTERESTING DIFFERENT CHOICE OF WORDS, SPECIAL EXCEPTION. IT SAYS NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, VARIANCES SAYS PUBLIC INTEREST. ABSOLUTELY. AND SO THAT IS A ALMOST A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE. ALMOST A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE. AND I THINK THE MAIN THING IS THE SCOPE. UM, WHEN I READ THAT, I SEE THAT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IS 200 IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN 200 FEET, ALTHOUGH THAT'S A GOOD, I WOULD THINK IT GIVES CREDENCE TO, YOU KNOW, YOU PAY MORE WEIGHT, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO USE YOUR DISCRETION TO GIVE MORE WEIGHT TO A PROPERTY WITHIN, INSIDE THE 200 [04:25:01] FEET THAN WITHOUT. HOWEVER, THE PUBLIC INTEREST IS BROAD. EXACTLY. IT'S MORE BROAD. SO THE PUBLIC INTEREST COULD BE ANYBODY IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, ANYBODY IN NORTH TEXAS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMEBODY'S PASSING THROUGH FROM SAN ANTONIO AND THEY SAID THEY HAPPEN TO BE THERE AND THEY GIVE THEIR OPINION, THEY'RE THE PUBLIC. SO THE PUBLIC INTEREST IS MUCH BROADER THAN NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. SO THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT. UM, I, I'LL, I'LL BE HONEST, I HADN'T, I THOUGHT THEY WERE THE SAME EXPRESSION. THEY'RE NOT, THAT CLEARLY IS DIFFERENT. NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND PUBLIC INTEREST ARE DIFFERENT UNIVERSES. I EVERYONE NEEDS TO ABSORB THAT NOW. IT DOES NOT CONSTRAIN US TO THE 200 FEET. IT MAY POINT US TO THE 200 FEET, BUT IT DOESN'T CONSTRAIN YOU AS A BOARD MEMBER MAKING A DECISION. PRECISELY. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE TRY TO CREATE THIS SLIDE TO HAVE THE, THE ELEMENTS SIDE BY SIDE, BECAUSE THEN YOU REALLY CAN COMPARE AND CONTRAST THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND THE VARIANCES. SO THE SECOND POLICY CONCERN THAT'S IMPLICITLY ADDRESSED BY THE COUNCIL IS WHETHER THE REQUEST IS FAIR TO THE APPLICANT. AND SO FOR A VARIANCE, THE COUNCIL HAS INSISTED THAT THERE BE A HARDSHIP PRESENT. AND THIS IS EVIDENCED BY THE LANGUAGE NOTING THAT THE LOT MUST BE OF A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE. SO YOU'LL NOTICE IN THE CHART, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR A HARDSHIP IN THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION BECAUSE AS NOTED, THE STANDARD FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS LESSER THAN THAT OF A VARIANCE. THUS IT'S IMPLIED THAT THE HARDSHIP ELEMENT HAS ALREADY BEEN MET. SIMILARLY, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE WHY ASPECT IN REGARDS TO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, THE QUESTION HAS BEEN IMPLICITLY DEEMED IRRELEVANT BY COUNSEL. SO WHEN AN APPLICANT, AND I KNOW WHERE'S MS. DAVIS, I KNOW THIS IS FRUSTRATING WHEN SOMEBODY BUILDS A FENCE AND THEY COME AND THEY SAY, I WANT TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS RATHER THAN PERMISSION. AND WE WANNA KNOW WHY. AND I WANNA KNOW WHY PERSONALLY AS WELL, BECAUSE I, I'M, I'M ONE, I'M CURIOUS AND, AND, AND I, AND I KNOW YOU'VE, UM, MENTIONED HOW FRUSTRATING YOU THINK IT IS, AND I AGREE WITH YOU, UM, HOWEVER, PER THE CODE, WHY IS AN IMPROPER QUESTION WHEN IT COMES TO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. BUT WHY IS THAT COMPLETELY PROPER AND NECESSARY QUESTION WHEN DEALING WITH A VARIANCE? AND THE REASON I WANT EVERYONE TO ABSORB THAT WE'VE ALL EXPERIENCED CASE AND APPEAL THAT COMES TO THE BOARD AND THEY'VE ALREADY BUILT IT AND EVEN WORSE WITHOUT A PERMIT, AND NOW THEY GOT CAUGHT BY SOMEONE SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, THE FACT THAT THEY BUILT IT WITHOUT A PERMIT AND GOT CAUGHT IS REALLY, IS NOT, IS NOT PART OF THE CRITERIA ASKING FOR A VARIANCE FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. YES. OKAY. IN CONTRAST THAT WITH A VARIANCE, IT IS AN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY QUESTION BECAUSE THE THIRD ELEMENT OF A VARIANCE IS THAT IT CANNOT HAVE BEEN SELF-CREATED. AND SO IF THEY BUILT IT WITHOUT A PERMIT, WITHOUT PERMISSION, THAT GOES TO SHOW THAT THEY MAY HAVE NOT, NOT, IT'S NOT PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE THAT THEY DID, BUT IT GOES TO SHOW THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND IS THE REQUEST IS BEING DONE TO CREATE A, TO RELIEVE A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP. SO IT'S COMPLETE. WHEREAS THE WHY QUESTION IS NOT RELEVANT FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, IT'S COMPLETELY RELEVANT FOR VARIANCES. UH, MATTHEW, THIS IS A GREAT CHART. IT'S VERY SIMPLE, BUT IT'S VERY ON POINT. EXCELLENT. SO MOVING ON TO, UM, AO APPEALS. THE, UH, TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE GIVES THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT THE POWER TO HEAR AND DECIDE AND APPEAL, UH, AN APPEAL THAT ALLEGES AN ERROR IN AN ORDER REQUIREMENT DECISION OR DETERMINATION MADE BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS SUBCHAPTER OR AN ORDINANCE ADOPTED UNDER THIS SUBCHAPTER. SO THE STATE MADE THIS LAW AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT'S A GREAT LAW. WE'RE GONNA CODIFY THAT AND PUT THAT IN OUR CITY CODE. AND SO SUBSEQUENTLY THE CITY CODE READS THAT THE BOARD SHALL HAVE ALL THE POWERS OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL ON THE ACTION APPEAL FROM THE, THE BOARD MAY IN WHOLE OR IN PART AFFIRM REVERSE OR AMEND THE DECISION OF THE OFFICIAL. AND SO THIS ALLOWS THE BOARD TO STAND IN THE SHOES OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL. AND THERE ARE HIS SHOES. THERE ARE A LOVELY PAIR OF OXFORD RUGS, I THINK. UM, BUT THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO THINK YOU GUYS STAND IN THE SHOES OF THE, OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. AND SO THE, THE COURT HAS SAID, AND THERE WAS A CASE, IT WAS SHELTON V CITY OF COLLEGE STATION, THAT A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ACTS AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY HAVING NO STATUTORY POWER TO LEGISLATE IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN ITS DECISIONS TO THE POWERS VESTED IN IT BY THE LEGISLATOR AND CITY COUNCIL. IT MAY NOT MATERIALLY ALTER THE SPECIFIC INTENT AND EXTENT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE AS THIS POWER IS WITHIN THE PROVINCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL. THE CODE ALSO THOUGH, SECTION 51 A 47.0703 SAYS THE BOARD MAY IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS IN ORDER FOR THE ORDER TO BE COMPLIED. IT CERTAINLY DOES SAY THAT, THAT, I MEAN THAT'S SO THAT'S PART OF THE POWER, RIGHT? SO IN THE CODE, ABSOLUTELY. AND SO I THINK THE, THE QUESTION WHEN WHAT [04:30:01] REASONABLE, REASONABLE CONDITIONS CAN BE IMPLIED OR WHEN THE, THE QUESTION OF LIKE, WHAT CAN THE BOARD MODIFY? SO THEY CAN ONLY DO THAT, UM, IF IT'S IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CODE. SO THE CODE GIVES THE BOARD ALL THE POWERS OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, KIND OF LIKE, AS WE NOTED, IT ALLOWS THE BOARD TO AFFIRMER REVERSE IN WHOLE OR IN PART OR AMEND THE DECISION OF THE OFFICIAL. HOWEVER, 51 A 3 1 0 5 SAYS THE BUILDING OFFICIAL SHALL ISSUE PERMITS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS CHAPTER. SO IT HAS TO BE, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL CAN ONLY DO WHAT THE CODE ALLOWS. HE CAN'T, UM, CHANGE THE LAW OR CREATE THE LAW. BUT CERTAINLY, BUT MATTHEW, YOU WOULD AGREE. AND OUR DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT WAS HERE THIS MORNING, WHO IN ESSENCE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. THEY MAKE INTERPRETATIONS EVERY DAY. THAT'S CORRECT. EVERY SINGLE DAY. THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. AND AS WE'VE SEEN IN SEVERAL CASES, I'M NOT BEING SPECIFIC, SEVERAL CASES THEY'VE MADE WIDE RANGE OF INTERPRETATIONS. CERTAINLY THEY CERTAINLY DO. AND, AND PART OF THAT, THAT'S THE BUILDING OFFICIAL MAKING A WIDE RANGE OF INTERPRETATIONS. AND THAT'S THE SHOES THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING TO FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. ABSOLUTELY. AND SO, AND THE BUILDING OFFICIALS MAKING THESE WIDE RANGE OF INTERPRETATIONS, AND I GO BACK AGAIN TO WHAT IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT THE BOARD MAY IN WHOLE OR IN PART AFFIRM REVERSE OR AMEND, AND THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY THE BOARD MAY IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS. I'M I'M JUST REINFORCING THAT TO THAT AS THE INHERENT STATED AUTHORITY OF THE BOARD. CERTAINLY, AND I HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE THAT WOULD BE APPLICABLE. SO LIKE MOST INSTANCES OF FACT FINDING ARE REALLY REVERSING OR AFFIRMING IN WHOLE OR IN PART, SO LIKE THE INSTANCES WHERE YOU, THE BOARD COULD TRULY MODIFY OR AMEND A DECISION BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL INVOLVED, WHERE THERE'S A MATTER OF FACT THAT CAN BE CHANGED, BUT DO BUT NOT A SUBSTANTIVELY ADD TO THE DECISION. SO ESSENTIALLY THE BOARD CANNOT ADD A CHARGE BECAUSE THE APPLICANT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PREPARE A DEFENSE FOR THAT. BUT THEY, BUT THE BOARD COULD CHANGE A DATE OR A NAME OR A, UH, CONDITION PRECEDENT. AND SO THIS HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A CONDITION PRECEDENT INVOLVED. SO IF THE BO'S DECISION WAS IF YOU REPAIR X, Y, AND Z, WELL YOU CAN HAVE YOUR PERMIT, AND THAT COMES FOR THE BOARD. THE BOARD COULD AMEND THIS OR MODIFY THIS BY SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE DON'T THINK YOU NEED X, Y, AND Z. WE THINK YOU COULD JUST DO IT BY, UH, X AND Y. BUT WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT WEEKS STAYS, MONTHS A WIDE RANGE OF INTERPRETATION BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ACTUALLY YEARS WHERE WE'VE SEEN THAT A WIDE RANGE OF DECISION AFTER DECISION IN INTERPRETATION AFTER INTERPRETATION. AND THOSE SHOES THAT YOU SPEAK OF CERTAINLY ARE THE SAME SHOES WE'RE LOOKING AT. CORRECT. THAT WIDE INTERPRETATION. I I'M JUST REINFORCING, UH, THESE ISSUES THAT COME TO THE BOARD, NOT BY OUR ASKING FAIR, BUT BY WHETHER IT BE ERRORS THAT ARE MADE OR INTERPRETATIONS THAT ARE MADE. THAT'S FAIR. WE DON'T GO LOOKING FOR OUR CASES , WE DON'T, WE RESPOND TO THE FAIRNESS ISSUE. SO CERTAINLY FAIR. UM, TO THAT POINT, CHAIRMAN, I, I WOULD SAY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, EARLIER I MENTIONED THAT THE CPC HAS TWO ROLES, AN ADVISORY ONE, AND A QUASI-JUDICIAL ONE. YOU GUYS HAVE A QUASI-JUDICIAL ROLE. HOWEVER, IN THIS NI NICHE INSTANCE WHERE YOU'RE ASKED TO FILL THE SHOES OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, YOU ALSO HAVE THAT SECONDARY ROLE. SO IN SUMMARY, I WOULD SAY THAT ALTHOUGH THE BOARD STANDS IN THE SHOES OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, YOU'RE STILL WEARING THE CLOTHES OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND SO WHEREAS YOU CAN TECHNICALLY MODIFY OR AMEND THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IN PRACTICALITY, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THAT NUANCED SITUATION TO ARISE BECAUSE WHEN YOU AMEND BY ADDING AN ISSUE, YOU RUN THE RISK OF VIOLATING A CONSTITUTIONAL FUNDAMENTAL DUE PROCESS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE APPLICANT HASN'T HAD A CHANCE TO PREPARE THAT DEFENSE FOR THAT. AND YOU ALSO RUN, YOU RUN THE RISK OF RUNNING A FOUL OF THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. BUT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THAT THAT LANGUAGE ABOUT MODIFICATION, CERTAINLY IN THERE, IT'S JUST EXTREMELY NUANCED WHEN IT CAN BE UTILIZED AND PUTTING CONDITIONS ON IT CLEARLY SAYS IT IN THE CODE, MR. AGNIS. SO WHAT, WHAT YOU SAY, IS IT YOUR POSITION THEN THAT THE BOARD, OKAY, THE BOARD SITS IN THE SHOES OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, THE BOARD CAN DO ANYTHING THE BUILDING OFFICIAL CAN DO. ARE YOU SAYING THAT IF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL SAID, ALL RIGHT, YOU GOTTA DO X, Y, AND Z, THAT THE BOARD COULD NOT SUBSTITUTE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE MORE RESTRICTIVE ON THE APPLICANT. SO IT'S UNIQUE, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE A DEFENSE IN THE, OKAY, SO LET'S SWITCH CLOTHING ANALYSIS. YOU KNOW, OFTENTIMES PEOPLE SAY, I'M WEARING MY MANAGER HAT, I'M WEARING MY EMPLOYEE HAT. YEAH, LET'S STOP TALKING ABOUT CLOTHING. SO WHEN YOU'RE WEARING YOUR BOARD OF ADJUST, WHEN YOU'RE WEARING YOUR BUILDING OFFICIAL HAT UHHUH, YOU COULD AMEND TO MODIFY, RIGHT? YEP. HOWEVER, AND IN LIKE THE BUILDING OFFICIAL DOES, BUILDING OFFICIAL GOT TUR, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO WEAR YOUR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAT. AND IF YOU'RE ALREADY IN THE CASE AND YOU'RE ADDING SOMETHING TO IT, THEN YOU RUN A POTENTIALLY RUN AFOUL OF A DUE PROCESS ISSUE BECAUSE THE APPLICANT HASN'T BEEN NOTICED THAT HE'S GONNA HAVE TO DEFEND AGAINST THAT ISSUE. BUT WHAT IF I CHANGE IT IN A WAY THAT IS FAVORABLE TO THE APPLICANT, THEN IT'S NOT RUNNING A FOUL, THEN, THEN, THEN THEY DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE, RIGHT? [04:35:01] SO IF, IF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL HAD SAID X, Y, AND Z, AND SOMEHOW I DECIDED, YOU KNOW WHAT, X, Y, AND Z ISN'T ENOUGH. SO NOT ONLY AM I GONNA AFFIRM THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, I'M GONNA ADD A AND B, YOU'RE GONNA AMEND, I I I DON'T THINK THAT'S, SO IF WE AMENDED IT BY MAKING IT MORE RESTRICTIVE, IS, IS THAT THE CONCERN BUILDING? I, I'M, SO THOSE I, YOU'LL HAVE TO FORGIVE ME. SO IN THAT SITUATION, MR. AGS, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS LIKE A PARTIAL, A REVERSAL OR A FIRM AFFIRMATION AND HOLD OR IN PART AND NOT A TRUE MODIFICATION. I'M JUST TRYING TO MODIFICATION, TRYING, TRYING TO, THAT WAS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WE RAN INTO IS WHEN WE WERE LOOKING FOR CASES WHERE THIS HAPPENED, LIKE WE COULDN'T FIND ONE WHERE THERE WAS AN ACTUAL, A TRUE MODIFICATION OR AMENDMENT. BECAUSE IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THAT WHOLE, OR IN PART LANGUAGE MEANS THAT WHEN YOU'RE ONLY DOING ONE, OR IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE THINGS BEFORE YOU, AND YOU DECIDE ONE WAY ON, ONE IN A DIFFERENT WAY ON ANOTHER, THAT YOU'RE REALLY JUST AFFIRM REVERSING OR AFFIRMING IN WHOLE OR IN PART. AND THAT A TRUE MODIFICATION IS EXTREMELY A NUANCED SITUATION. BUT I COULD, I COULD EASILY SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THE BUILDING OFFICIAL WAS RIGHT ON X, WRONG ON Y, AND WRONG ON Z, THEREFORE THE APPLICANT, AS LONG AS THEY CAN DO X CAN PROCEED. THEY JUST DON'T HAVE TO DO YMZ. RIGHT? I HAVE MODIFIED, I HAVEN'T YOU'VE MODIFIED IT, BUT YOU'VE JUST REVERSED AFFIRMED IN WHOLE OR IN PART? WELL, I'VE, AND YOU HAVEN'T MODIFIED IT. I'VE SUBSTITUTED, I, I MEAN ESSENTIALLY I, I AMENDED, OKAY. I, I MEAN I I I RULED AGAINST THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IN MY CASE ON Y AND Z AND AGREED WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ON X. SO WHATEVER I'VE DONE, THE NET EFFECT IS THE APPLICANT, IF THE APPLICANT DOES X, CAN PROCEED. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT DO YOU, WHAT YOU WANNA CALL IT, BUT IN A CASE LIKE THAT, THERE'S NO SITUATION WHERE THE APPLICANT LIKE, UH, SHOULD HAVE, COULD, I'M DOING SOMETHING THE APPLICANT COULDN'T HAVE PREPARED A DEFENSE FOR. THE APPLICANT HAS SAID, UH, I THINK THE BUILDING OFFICIAL WAS WRONG ON ALL COUNTS, RIGHT? SO, SO THE ONLY CON SITUATION I CAN THINK OF WHERE AN APPLICANT WHERE I WOULD DO SOMETHING THE APPLICANT HASN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DEFEND IS IF I ACTUALLY ADDED TO THE BURDEN THAT THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ALREADY, UH, APPLIED. AND I DON'T THINK I'D DO THAT, IF THAT'S RIGHT, IF UNDER THE CASE I'D JUST AFFIRMED THE BUILDING OFFICIAL RIGHT. MOVE ON. THERE'S NO POINT IN ADDING A AND B IF X, Y, AND Z HAVEN'T BEEN MET ANYWAY. RIGHT? I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE, I I GO BACK TO WHAT THE CODE SAYS, 51 A 4, 7 0 3, THE BOARD, SHALL THE POWERS ADMIT OFFICIAL, THE BOARD MAY IN WHOLE OR IN PART REVERSE OR AMEND THE DECISION, THE BOARD MAY IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS IN ORDER FOR THE ORDER TO BE COMPLIED WITH. UH, THAT'S, THESE AREN'T OUR WORDS. THIS IS WHAT THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE SAYS. SURE. SO, UH, I SAY THAT I REPEAT THIS AGAIN, I PUT IT IN MY CHAIRMAN'S REPORT. I MADE A BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS. WE GET ISSUES, WE DON'T GO LOOK FOR ISSUES. THEY ARE FORCED ON US. AND SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS BE FAIR AND EQUITABLE BASED ON THE FACTS THAT COME TO US BASED ON WHAT THE CODE SAYS WE CAN DO. SO, UH, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR, OR, UH, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR AN EXAMPLE ANYWHERE ELSE. I'M LOOKING AT WHAT THE CODE SAYS. SO I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH MR. AGNES'S INTERPRETATION. SO, UH, WE NEED TO KEEP MOVING. CERTAINLY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DID I MISS SOMEONE? I'M SORRY IF I DID. OKAY. MR. AGNES, DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AT THIS POINT IN TIME? YEAH, I JUST THINK I'VE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD IT IN THAT ULTIMATELY IN A CASE, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE SIT AS THE BUILDING OFFICIALS ESSENTIALLY GIMME THE CODE, GIMME THE FACTS, AND WE START FROM SCRATCH. AND THEN I FIGURE OUT WHAT I THINK BUILDING OFFICIALS SHOULD DO, AND THEN WE'LL APPLY IT TO WHATEVER THE BUILDING OFFICIAL DID. AND IN REALITY, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IS NOT SAM ESDA, HE IS THE OFFICIAL, BUT HE DELEGATES THAT DOWN TO 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 PEOPLE AND THEY MAKE THAT DECISION IN ISSUING PERMITS. AND THERE THAT INTERPRETATION THEREOF, IT'S NOT ONE PERSON MAKING A DECISION WITH ONE INTERPRETATION, IT'S MULTIPLE INTERPRETATIONS ALL THE WAY FROM A TO Z. CORRECT? CORRECT. THOSE ARE THE SHOES YOU'RE ASKING US TO, TO, TO FIT IN. AND THAT, THAT IS A WIDE RANGE OF INTERPRETATION THAT PRACTICALLY THE BUILDING OFFICIALS USING. THAT'S NOT ME GOING TO LOOK FOR IT, THAT'S JUST ME RESPONDING. SO MOVING FORWARD, MS. CARLISLE, I WILL DO SOMETHING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AS IT RELATES TO VARIANCES, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS OR APPEALS OF BUILDING OFFICIALS? WHAT A WHAT A THICKET. OH, I WASN'T REFERRING TO SOMETHING, BUT WHAT A THICKET. OKAY, THANK YOU. [04:40:02] YEAH, WE'RE FINE. HOLD ON ONE SECOND. OKAY, NEXT ITEM. SO MS. CARLISLE WILL PROCEED WITH, UM, SOME CASE LAW EXAMPLES. WELL, I'M JUST GONNA GO OVER ONE CASE LAW. THIS CITY OF DALLAS VERSUS VANESSA. I KNOW IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP AT SEVERAL HEARINGS. AND SO THE ISSUE BASICALLY FOR THIS CASE IS WHETHER THE CITY CAN ENFORCE A ZONING ORDINANCE AGAINST A PROPERTY OWNER WHO SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETED NEW HOME HAS BEEN BUILT IN VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY HAD GIVEN PRELIMINARY APPROVAL TO THE OWNER'S BUILDING PLANS. SO I'LL JUST GO THROUGH THE FACTS OF THE CASE. THE SCOS WANTED TO BUILD A LARGER HOME, SO THEY TORE DOWN THEIR EXISTING HOME AND THEY BUILT A NEW ONE ON THE SAME LOT. THEY PAID AN ADDITIONAL FEE TO THE CITY FOR THE CITY TO DO MORE EXTENSIVE REVIEWS OF THE PLANS, AND THE CITY ULTIMATELY GRANTED AND ISSUED THE BUILDING PERMITS. UM, BUT WHILE THE ROOF WAS BEING BUILT, AN INSPECTOR WENT BACK OUT AND REALIZED, OH NO, THE ROOF IS BUILT TOO HIGH. SO INSTEAD OF ISSUING A WORK OR A STOP WORK ORDER, HE RECOMMENDED THAT THE VANESSA'S GO TO THE BOARD FOR A VARIANCE. SO THE PROCEDURAL HISTORY, UM, AT THE BOARD, AT THE BOARD HEARING, 80% OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORTED THE VARIANCE REQUEST. 20% DIDN'T SUPPORT, BUT THEY DIDN'T OBJECT EITHER. AND THE BOARD WAS DEADLOCKED AT THREE TO TWO. SO THEY COULDN'T PASS A MOTION TO GRANT, THEY COULDN'T PASS, PASS THE MOTION TO DENY. SO IT WAS IMPLIED, DENIED, AND THEN IT WAS APPEALED TO THE DISTRICT COURT, AND THE DISTRICT COURT REVERSED THE BOARD'S DECISION AND REMANDED THE BOARD REMANDED IT BACK TO THE BOARD FOR FURTHER PROCEEDINGS. AND THE COURT OF APPEALS, UM, AFFIRMED THE DISTRICT COURT'S RULING, REVERSING THE BOARD'S DECISION TO, AND REMAINING IT BACK. SO THEN IT WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS, AND THE ONLY QUESTION ON AN APPEAL IS WHETHER THE BOARD'S ACTION WAS ILLEGAL. AND TO ESTABLISH AN ILLEGAL ORDER, THE PARTY ATTACKING THE ORDER MUST PRESENT A VERY CLEAR SHOWING OF ABUSE, OF DISCRETION, AND A ZONING BOARD ABUSES IT DISCRETION IF IT ACTS WITHOUT REFERENCE TO ANY GUIDING RULES AND PRINCIPLES, OR CLEARLY FAILS TO ANALYZE OR APPLY THE LAW CORRECTLY. AND A REVIEWING COURT CAN'T SUBSTITUTE ITS OWN JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF THE BOARD. SO IN THIS CASE, THE SUPREME COURT HELD THAT THE BOARD DIDN'T ABUSE ITS DISCRETION WHEN IT DENIED THE VARIANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY HAD ALREADY GIVEN PRELIMINARY APPROVAL OF THE BUILDING PLANTS. AND THEY REASON, THE REASONING IS THEY SAID, WHILE THE COST OF RE-PITCHING THE ROOF OF THE STRUCTURE MAY CONSTITUTE A HARDSHIP, THAT HARDSHIP WASN'T IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE AREA SHOW SHAPE OR SLOPE OF THE PARCEL. AND THAT THE MERE ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING PERMIT DOES NOT RENDER A CITY ZONING ORDINANCE UNENFORCEABLE, NOR DOES THE FACT THAT A PERMIT WAS ISSUED AN ERROR ENTITLED THE PROPERTY OWNER TO A VARIANCE. THEY MUST DECIDE THE VARIANCE BASED OFF THE STANDARDS IN THE CODE. SO THEY SAID THAT NOTHING ON THE PARCEL OF THE LAND REQUIRED A HIGHER ROOF. SO THE VARIANCE WAS NOT NECESSARY TO PERMIT DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN DEVELOPED. AND THAT THE HARDSHIP WAS PERSONAL IN NATURE BECAUSE IT AROSE FROM THE DECISIONS THAT SCOS MADE IN DESIGNING THEIR HOPE AS OPPOSED TO THE NATURE AND CONFIGURATION OF THE LAW IN QUESTION. SO THIS CASE IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED THAT A CITY CAN ENFORCE THEIR ZONING ORDINANCE AGAINST THE PROPERTY OWNER, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY HAD GIVEN APPROVAL OF THE BUILDING PERMIT. AND THAT'S ALL THAT WE HAVE. THANK YOU. OH, NOPE. HOUSE BILL 1470 FIVES EFFECT. SO, SO THEY CAN TAKE IN, NOW, THEY CAN TAKE IN CONSIDERATION THE COST, BUT AGAIN, LIKE MR. SAPP SAID, IT HAS TO BE THE 50% RULE. UM, AND, AND, AND YOU CAN FIND FOR THE SECOND ELEMENT, BUT AGAIN, THEY STILL HAVE TO MEET THE FIRST ELEMENT OF WHETHER OR OR NOT IT'S CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST AND WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP. AND AGAIN, THIS COURT FOUND THAT IT WAS SELF-CREATED. THANK YOU. UH, THERE'S ONE OTHER ITEM. I'M SORRY, WHO HAD A QUESTION? MR. FINNEY? UM, SO I'M CONFUSED. HOW DID THE, UM, IF THE CASE THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO US, UH, WENT TO THE DISTRICT COURT, THEY REVERSED THE BOARD'S DECISION AND THEN IT WENT BACK TO THE BOARD? RIGHT? IT WENT TO THE DISTRICT COURT, THEN IT WENT TO THE COURT OF APPEALS, AND THEN YOU CAN APPLY, I DON'T KNOW, DO YOU KNOW HOW TO SAY WORD? WHERE YOU CAN GO AND REQUEST FOR THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS TO REVIEW OKAY. THE, THE CASE. AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. OKAY, GOTCHA. [04:45:01] OKAY. THANK YOU. I'M SORRY, JUST, OKAY, HOLD ON ONE SECOND. I'VE GOT MR, I'VE GOT MR. NRI AND THEN MR. SINGTON. MR. NRI. THANK YOU. UH, JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION ON THIS, ON THE NEW 50% RULE, UH, THE, THE TWO EXAMPLES THAT YOU SHOWED MR. ZAPP HAD TO DO WITH A PROPERTY THAT WHERE THE IMPROVEMENT WAS VASTLY MORE VALUABLE THAN, THAN THE LAND. I ASSUME THAT STANDARD STILL APPLIES FOR THE REVERSE. SAY THE IMPROVEMENT IS ONLY WORTH $300,000, BUT THE LAND VALUES SAY 1.5 MILLION, IT WOULD STILL, UH, THE 50% WOULD STILL BE CALCULATED ON THE IMPROVEMENT ALONE. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. ASHING. NO. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. THERE'S ONE OTHER, UH, IN THE CASE LAW THAT CAME UP THAT I WANT TO JUST INFORM THE BOARD ON IN THIS TEXAS COURTHOUSE. UH, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TWO YEARS AGO RULED IT WAS APPEALED TO THE DISTRICT COURT. THE DISTRICT COURT OVERRULED THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, AND RECENTLY, AS IN AUGUST SPECIFIC, AND IT'S IN YOUR PACKET ON PAGE 1 46, UH, ON, UM, I'M GONNA LOOK FOR AUGUST 27TH OF THIS YEAR, REVERSED THE DISTRICT COURT AND AFFIRMED THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS JUDGMENT IN THE TEXAS COURTHOUSE. AND IN YOUR PACKET, IT'S HIGHLIGHTED THAT THE FOUR KEY AREAS OF WHAT THE, THE APPEALS COURT SAID, AND BASICALLY IT REAFFIRMED WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID IS THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ABUSE ITS DISCRETION AND REVERS THE UNDERLYING DECISION. UM, THE DECISION OF THE APPEALS COURT WAS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DID NOT RE ABUSE ITS DISCRETION, AND SO THEREFORE IT REVERSED THE DISTRICT COURT. THE REASON WHY I'M BRINGING THIS UP AND REINFORCING THIS TO THE BOARD IS 'CAUSE WE DID OUR JOB AND WE DID IT CORRECTLY. NOW IT'S SUBJECT TO APPEAL. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT GOING INTO ANY OTHER DETAILS OF THE CASE, BUT IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S A CONTINUED LITIGATION. AND I WANTED TO, THE, THE APPEALS REPORT IS IN YOUR DOCKET QUESTIONS. I'VE GOT MR. AGNES, THEN MR. SLATE, I JUST WANNA READ ONE THING. AND PART OF PART OF THE COURT'S CONCLUSION IS, UH, THAT IN ORDER TO OVERTURN, UH, IN OTHER WORDS, THE PARTY CHALLENGING THE BOA'S FINDINGS MUST ESTABLISH THE BO OA COULD ONLY HAVE REASONABLY REACHED ONE DECISION. THAT'S A PRETTY HIGH STANDARD. SO THAT'S A UNANIMOUS DECISION ON THE APPEALS COURT. MR. SLADE, UH, BUILDING ON THAT, AND THEN I'LL HAVE ONE QUESTION. UM, UH, FOR OUR ATTORNEYS, THE, THE QUOTE I WANTED TO USE FROM THE, UM, OPINION. THE OPINION, THANK YOU, UH, A ZONING BOARD ABUSES ITS DISCRETION IF IT ACTS WITHOUT REFERENCE TO ANY GUIDING RULES AND PRINCIPLES OR CLEARLY FAILS TO ANALYZE OR APPLY THE LAW CORRECTLY. SO IT'S ON THE TOP OF PAGE 1 48, TOP RIGHT. MM-HMM, , UM, IN DECIDING WHETHER THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ABUSE, ITS DISCRETION, THE DISTRICT COURT CONSIDERS, AND HERE'S THE QUESTION. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS VERIFIED RETURN ALONG WITH ANY ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE NECESSARY FOR PROPER DISPOSITION OF THE MATTER. WHAT IS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS VERIFIED RETURN? I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. THANK YOU, MR. SLADE. MR. AGNIS, I'M, I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE, BUT SOMEHOW I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE EQUIVALENT OF OUR TRANSCRIPT, WHY IT WOULD BE CALLED THAT. I DON'T KNOW. SO I'M SPECULATING, WHICH IS A BAD THING TO DO HERE. IT'S BETTER THAN NOTHING, I GUESS. MAKES SENSE. AGAIN, THIS IS IN THE AGENDA JUST TO INFORM THE BOARD OF THE COURT'S DECISION. WE'RE NOT GOING TO ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OF MERITS. WE'RE JUST SAYING WHAT THE APPEALS COURT SAID OF THE DISTRICT COURT SAID OF THE BOARD. HEARING NONE. WE'LL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS OUR ACTION ITEMS. OUR FIRST ACTION ITEM IS THE REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF A MEETING MINUTES FROM, UH, TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2024. UH, IT'S PAGE 1 62 AND 1 63. IN YOUR DOCKET, THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. CAN YOU BRING THAT UP ON THE MASTER SCREEN? WHOEVER'S RUNNING THE MASTER SCREEN? MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE A MOTION. MS. P*****K, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD APPROVED THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2004 MEETING AS PRESENTED. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MS. P*****K. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, MR. AGMAN, IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY VICE CHAIR AGNIS. UM, WHO'S RUNNING THE SCREEN? [04:50:01] IS THERE ANYONE RUNNING THE SCREEN? BECAUSE I'M GONNA WANT EACH ONE OF THESE AS WE GO THROUGH OUR, OUR DOCKET, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE HARD COPIES, GUYS. SO WE'RE GONNA PAUSE A SECOND. MARY, WHO IS RUNNING THE DOCKET? JASON, SARAH. OKAY. IT'S PAGE, SO WE'RE GONNA GO 1 62 TO THE END OF THE DOCKET. I'M GONNA MOTION. ALRIGHT, PERFECT. ALRIGHT. A MOTION IS ON THE FLOOR TO APPROVE THIS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETING MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2024. THE MOTION WAS MADE BY MS. P*****K AND IT WAS SECONDED BY MR. AGNES. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. SEEING NO DISCUSSION. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. MOTION CARRIES 11 TO ZERO. UH, MS. GA, VICE CHAIR GABO IS OUT OF THE CHAMBER. SO I ASSUME THAT MEANS THAT IT'S COUNTED AS AFFIRMATIVE OR IS IT NOT COUNTED? IT'S COUNTED, YES. YES. VICE SHE COMES BACK ON THE RECORD AND SAYS NO. OKAY. SO THAT'S 12 TO ZERO? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. MOTION'S APPROVED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS, UH, MEETING MINUTES FOR, OR EXCUSE ME, THE MEETING CALENDAR FOR 2025. SO, UH, THE MEETING CALENDAR WAS PREPARED BY THE OFFICERS IN CONSULTATION WITH STAFF. BASICALLY WHAT WE DID IS REPLICATE THE, THE METHODOLOGY THAT WAS SUCCESSFUL IN 2020 5 24 BY BASICALLY DOING THE THIRD WEEK OF EACH MONTH. TYPICALLY, PANEL C ON MONDAYS PANEL A ON TUESDAYS, PANEL B ON WEDNESDAYS, THAT SKIPS WHEN THERE'S A HOLIDAY ON MONDAY, AND PANEL C JUMPS TO THURSDAY, THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE A MOTION. MR. AGNIS, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, I ADOPT THE 2025 BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CALENDAR AS PRESENTED, AS PRESENTED IN THIS DOCKET. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY VICE CHAIRMAN AG AGNES TO, TO ADOPT THE 2025 BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CALENDAR. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MS. P*****K DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. UM, MR. SASHING, I JUST WANNA MAKE A SUGGESTION, PLEASE. UM, I PERSONALLY BECAUSE OF, UM, WELL, I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE US GO BACK TO HAVING THE, UM, UH, RECESS SESSION IN JULY, UM, THAT WE PREVIOUSLY HAD IN YEARS PREVIOUS. IS THERE A, IS THERE AN OPTION OR IS THERE AN, IS THERE AN OPTION OR IS THERE AN, IS THERE THE CASE, THE CASELOAD IS SUCH THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE, IF NOT, IF NOT ONE, TWO PANELS IN JULY, IS THERE AN OPTION THAT IN THE FUTURE WE CAN GET BACK TO THAT CALENDAR? THAT'S ALL FUNCTION OF CASES. WHAT THE OFFICERS DECIDED IS TO SCHEDULE THE MEETINGS AND THEN CANCEL IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CASES, AS OPPOSED TO DON'T SCHEDULE MEETINGS AND THEN CALL, CALL MEETINGS. THE, THE, THE FEAR WAS THAT WE WOULDN'T GET A QUORUM IF WE DON'T PUT IT ON THE CALENDAR. IS THAT BECAUSE OF ISSUES THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST OR IS THAT, IS THAT PERCEIVED ISSUES WITH, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S MAKING SURE THAT WE HAD ENOUGH, UM, MEMBERS TO, TO HEAR CASES THAT WERE, THAT WAS BEFORE THE BOARD. THE, THE VOLUME OF CASES IS UP. AND SO TWO YEARS AGO, JULY WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY. AND THEN AUGUST, IT WAS AN EXPLOSION. SO A YEAR AGO, WE ADDED, TWO YEARS AGO WE ADDED ONE PANEL IN JULY, AND THEN LAST YEAR WE ADDED TWO PANELS IN JULY. SO IT'S A, IT'S CASE DRIVEN. WE WILL CANCEL CASES, CANCELED PANELS IF WE DON'T HAVE THE CASES. BUT JUST LIKE I SAID IN DECEMBER [04:55:01] COMING UP, WE HAVE 16 CASES IN DECEMBER. MR. SING, DO MY MEMORY, IS THAT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT WAS THAT IT WAS BETTER TO HAVE CALLED A MEETING AND CANCEL IT THAN TO HAVE NOT CALLED A MEETING AND SPRING IT ON PEOPLE? AS I RECALL, THAT'S, SO, I, I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR PANEL C FOR EXAMPLE. I THINK WE, WE MET IN JULY, BUT I, I KNOW WE, WE CANCELED OUR SEPTEMBER MEETING FOR LACK OF CASES AND I THINK ALSO OUR AUGUST. BUT, UH, YEAH, IT'S JUST ONE WAS QUORUM LATE, ONE WAS QUORUM, AND ONE, ONE WAS CANCELED FOR, FOR LACK OF CASES. I, I, I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE SURE IT'S ON THE RECORD, UH, THAT I, I WOULD PREFER, UH, THAT WE GET BACK TO, UM, HAVING THAT STANDARD RECESS SESSION IN JULY. DULY NOTED DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED NAY. ONE. NAY. UH, MOTION CARRIES. UH, LET'S SEE. IT'D BE, UH, 11 TO ONE. MR. HOPKOS WAS, WAS OUT OF THE CHAMBER. WE'LL ASSUME HE'S IN A AFFIRMATIVE. ISN'T THAT THE CORRECT WAY OF YES. RIGHT. THAT'S THE WAY THE COUNCIL OPERATES, RIGHT? YOU'RE IN AFFIRMATIVE IF YOU'RE NOT IN THE CHAMBER. BILLY RAY JUST SAYS ABSOLUTELY VOTE. SO. OKAY. SO IS IT, SO IS IT 10 TO IS 10 TO ONE? ALRIGHT, SO I'M, I'M GONNA RULE IT'S 10 TO ONE THAT'S APPROVED. 10 TO ONE WITH MR. HOPKOS ABSENT. OKAY. CALENDAR IS ADOPTED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS OUR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ANNUAL REPORT. THE CITY COUNCIL THROUGH, UH, THE, THE SECTION EIGHT CODE OF THE, OF THE CODE REQUIRES EACH BOARD AND COMMISSION TO FILE A ANNUAL REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL. UH, SO WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, STARTING ON PAGE 1 65 TO ONE 60, EXCUSE ME, TO 1 92, IS THE ANNUAL REPORT. I'M GONNA WALK YOU THROUGH THIS VERY BRIEFLY. UM, ONE, THIS IS THE SAME FORMAT THAT WE'VE USED FOR YEARS AND YEARS. UM, PAGE 1 66 IS THE TABLE OF CONTENTS. PAGE 1 67 IS THE TITLE PAGE. PAGE 1 68 IS THE SAME LANGUAGE AS THE PREVIOUS YEARS. IT TALKS ABOUT THE CATEGORIES OF AUTHORITY. UM, PAGE 1 69 IS PURPOSE AUTHORITY, AGAIN, BOIL UP INFORMATION. UM, THE FIRST CHANGE IS ON PAGE ONE 70 WHERE I ASKED OUR BOARD SECRETARY TO PUT PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT IN AND TAKE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OUT 'CAUSE OF THE NAME CHANGE. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S ALL EXACTLY THE SAME STANDARD LANGUAGE AS IT RELATES TO THE PURPOSE AND THE PROCESS FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. PAGE 1 72 IS THE LISTING OF ROS MEMBER ROSTER. UH, I ASKED, UH, OUR BOARD SECRETARY TO TRY TO FIND THE ORIGINAL DATE OF APPOINTMENT AND ALSO THE REAPPOINTMENT DATE. SO HOPEFULLY THESE ARE ACCURATE. . UM, UH, MY ORIGINAL APPOINTMENT DATE WAS OCTOBER 5TH, 2021 AND REPOINT ON OCTOBER 11TH, 23. UH, I'LL USE MS. GABO. SHE, ACCORDING TO THE RECORDS, WE FOUND SHE WAS APPOINTED ON NOVEMBER OR NOVEMBER 1ST, 2016. HOLD YOU PICK ON ANOTHER ONE. MR. NRI APPOINTED ON AUGUST 30TH, 2017. THIS SAYS MR. AGNES ON SEPTEMBER 23RD, 2017. SO THAT MUST HAVE BEEN WHEN I BECAME A REGULAR MEMBER. YES, AS OPPOSED. 'CAUSE SERVICE AS AN ALTERNATE IS DIFFERENT THAN SERVICES AS A MEMBER BECAUSE YOU COULD SERVE EIGHT YEARS AS A MEMBER AND THEN BECOME AN ALTERNATE AND GO EIGHT YEARS. LIKEWISE, YOU COULD SERVE EIGHT YEARS AS AN ALTERNATE AND THEN GO EIGHT YEARS AS A MEMBER. SO THIS IS JUST A SIMPLE PAGE OF TALKING ABOUT THE PANELS AND TERMS. IT TALKS ABOUT ALTERNATE MEMBERS AND THE TWO MEMBERS THAT RESIGNED DURING THIS LAST CALENDAR YEAR. I'LL REMIND MEMBERS AND ALTERNATES YOU'RE SERVING YOUR, YOUR POST, YOUR APPOINTMENT IS THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30TH OF NEXT YEAR, SEPTEMBER 30TH, NEXT YEAR. AND A CONSISTENT WITH THE CODE YOU SERVE UNTIL YOU'RE REPLACED. SO YOU COULD SERVE IN A HOLDOVER CAPACITY PAST THAT DATE. THAT'S UP TO THE COUNCIL PERSON OR MAYOR THAT APPOINTS YOU. THE NEXT SECTION IS ON ATTENDANCE. MR. CHAIRMAN? YES. MR. AGNES, HOW DID AN ALTERNATE MANAGE TO GET AN ABSENCE? WE WE'RE NOT ON THAT YET. OH, YOU ARE THE ATTENDANCE. WE'RE ABOUT TO, WE'RE ABOUT TO. OH, SORRY. ALRIGHT, SO NOW WE'RE GOING TO, UH, ATTENDANCE ON PAGE 1 74. 1 74 LOOKS AT ALL THE MEETINGS THAT THE BOARD HAD BOTH IN PANELS AND IN FULL BOARD MEETINGS. UH, AND THIS MARY KEEPS AND SUBMITS TO THE CITY SECRETARY EVERY MONTH. IS THAT CORRECT, MARY? ONCE A MONTH. YOU SUBMIT THIS AFTER PANEL HEARINGS. OKAY. AND THIS IS COLOR CODING TO SHOW WHO PRESENT ABSENT RECESS. UH, PRESENT V IS VIRTUAL, RIGHT? [05:00:01] IS THAT WHAT V VIRTUAL MEANS? OKAY. NOW WHAT, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? THAT WAS FOR A, A FULL MEETING, SIR. SO, BUT A, AN FOR A FULL, AN ALTERNATE HAS NO OB OBLIGATION TO SHOW UP. SO HOW, HOW DO THEY BECOME ABSENT? UH, I THINK JUST BECAUSE THE PERSON'S ABSENT THAT IS NOT, UH, ATTENDANCE AT A SPECIAL MEETING DOES NOT COUNT AGAINST OR FOR YOUR MEETING REQUIREMENTS. WELL, I MEAN, ALTERNATES, I THINK WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT WHETHER ALTERNATES ARE EVEN SUBJECT TO THAT ANYWAY. YEAH, WELL, THEY'VE BEEN INTERPRETED AS THEY ARE, BUT WE'RE GONNA CODIFY THAT. OKAY. SO THIS IS, THIS GOES ACROSS, UH, YEARS FROM OCTOBER ONE OF LAST YEAR THROUGH SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR. NEXT SECTION GOES TO PROPOSED 2023, 2024 ACCOMPLISHMENTS. WHAT WE, WHAT THE OFFICERS, UM, AND I TOOK WAS THE GOALS THAT WERE STATED AND THEN WE INSERTED RESULTS. UH, I'LL BE ON, I'M GONNA READ THIS VERY QUICKLY 'CAUSE YOU DON'T WANT ME TO READ THIS WHOLE THING. UM, GOAL NUMBER ONE AS IT RELATES TO FEARLESS, TIMELESS AND ACCURACY, MUCH IMPROVED, BUT A RECOMMENDATION TO STREAMLINE THE PAPER FLOW AND HEARING PROCESS FOR THE APPLICATION TO BE A MORE FRIEND USER FRIENDLY PROCESS. UH, PUBLIC HEARING PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN 60 DAYS, SUCCESS AVERAGE DAYS TO THE APPLICATIONS DOWN TO 61, THAT IS OUTSTANDING. AND MR. POOL COMMITTED TO EVEN MORE OF A 10% REDUCTION FOR THE NEXT NEXT YEAR, WHICH WOULD BE OUTSTANDING STAFF PREPARED. A COMPREHENSIVE TECHNICAL ANALYSIS, WE SAID SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT. THIS 360 VIDEO, UH, TOUR PROPERTY IS ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS. UH, ENHANCED CASE ANALYSIS. WE'RE WANTING MORE ANALYSIS OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS AND WHAT THEY ARE IN COMPARISON TO THE, THE PROP, THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION. WEBSITE ENHANCEMENT IMPROVEMENT CASE LOOKUP IS AN ESSENTIAL TOOL. AGAIN, TRYING TO MAKE THE WEBSITE MORE USER FRIENDLY. UM, QUARTERLY TRAINING, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AS WE HOPED FOR, AND SO WE'RE HOPING THAT WE DO MORE TRAINING OF MEMBERS. IT'LL BE EITHER THROUGH THE FULL BOARD OR THROUGH A PANEL. MY ANTICIPATION, IT'LL BE THROUGH THE PANELS IN EACH PANEL. AN HOUR OF, OF, OF THE BRIEFING WILL BE EXTENDED OR BEGAN EARLY IN ORDER TO DO MORE TRAINING. AND A LOT OF THAT YOU HEARD FROM DIRECTOR LOU THIS MORNING. SHE'S VERY INTERESTED IN, COMMITTED TO PROVIDING ADDITIONAL PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. NEXT PAGE IS 1 77 GOES TO THE ISSUE OF WORK PRODUCT. THIS SHOWS THAT WE HAD 30 HEARINGS THIS LAST YEAR, WHICH IS A, A 30% INCREASE. I'M ON PAGE 1 77. A 20% INCREASE IN APPLICATIONS, A 1% INCREASE IN REQUESTS. AND YOU SEE THE STATS DOWN THE PAGE. THE NEXT SEVERAL PAGES IS A WORKSHEET THAT OUR BOARD SECRETARY MAINTAINS TO GO THROUGH AND, UH, TRACK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE APPLICATION COMES AND THE SUBSEQUENT REQUESTS AND THE DISPOSITION BY THE BOARD AND IS COLOR CODED AS WELL. NEXT SECTION IS PAGE ONE 90. UM, VICE CHAIRMAN, AGNES, VICE CHAIR, GABO AND MYSELF TRIED TO PUT TOGETHER GOALS AND OBJECTIVES FOR 24 25 AS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD, UM, AND TRY TO CARRY FORWARD SOME OF THE SUCCESSES WE HAD THIS YEAR. UH, THE OFFICERS COMMUNICATED THROUGH THE BOARD SECRETARY TO THE FULL BOARD TO ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS. WE GOT ONE MEMBER SUGGESTIONS. WE APPRECIATE THAT AND INCORPORATED SOME OF THAT PERSON'S SUGGESTION, UM, INTO THE GOALS FOR NEXT YEAR. IF YOU REMEMBER THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES THAT YOU HEARD FROM MR. POOLE THIS MORNING, IT'S EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN THESE. SO WE LIKE THAT. THAT'S, THAT'S EVEN BETTER AS FAR AS TIMELINESS, ACCURACY, AND RESPONSIVENESS. BUT IT GOES AGAIN TO THE, THE WHOLE ISSUE OF FAIRNESS, TIMELESS ACCURACY, TURNAROUND TIME, PROCESS IMPROVEMENT, TECHNICAL ANALYSIS, WEBSITE IMPROVEMENT AND TRAINING. THERE'S LIMITATIONS AS TO WHAT WE AS A BOARD CAN DO OUTSIDE THE CONFINES OF OUR HEARINGS. BECAUSE OUR ROLE BEGINS WHEN A APP, WHEN A, AN APPEAL COMES BEFORE US. OUR ROLE IS NOT PERSPECTIVE. OUR ROLE IS, IS REACTIVE. NOW WE HAVE BEEN AGGRESSIVE IN COMMUNICATING WITH THE CITY MANAGER OF THEIR STAFF TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT PROCESS IS USER FRIENDLY AND FAIR TO THE APPLICANT AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND WE MAKE SURE OUR HEARINGS ARE FAIR AND TO THE APPLICANT AND NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT MORE, WE'RE MORE REACTIVE BASED ON THE CASES THAT COME TO US RATHER THAN PROACTIVE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. SO THERE'S A FINE LINE WITH THAT. LAST BUT NOT LEAST, UH, ON PAGE 1 92, WE'RE MAKING THREE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL. UH, ONE IS THAT THE, THERE'S OVERSIGHT WITH THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT ON TIMELINESS, ACCURACY AND TRANSPARENCY. TWO, WE REQUEST THE CITY COUNCIL OVERSIGHT ON PERMITTING PROCESS AND PERSONNEL, [05:05:01] UH, TO REDUCE PERMITTING ERRORS. AND THREE WAS FOR THEM TO APPROVE OUR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AMENDMENTS. UM, AS I MENTIONED TO THE BOARD EARLIER THIS MORNING, UH, I MET, I'VE MET SEVERAL TIMES THIS LAST YEAR AND SPECIFICALLY YESTERDAY WITH MS. LOU TO TALK TO HER ABOUT CONCERNS AS IT RELATES TO ACCURATE INFORMATION, TIMELY INFORMATION AND FAIRNESS OF THE PROCESS. THAT'S NOT TAKING AN ATTACK ON THE PERMITTING DEPARTMENT OR IN, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OR PLANNING IN, IN DEVELOPMENT. BUT THAT'S SAYING, IN ORDER FOR US TO DO OUR JOB TO MAKE FAIR AND EQUITABLE DECISIONS, WE HAVE TO HAVE GOOD INFORMATION AND, AND ACCURATE INFORMATION. UH, IT'S AMAZING HOW MANY TIMES WE'RE SURPRISED IN THE MIDDLE OF A HEARING THAT WE ALL OF A SUDDEN SOMETHING COMES OUT THAT OUT OF THE BLUE THAT MAYBE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENTED BEFORE, NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY CASE IN PARTICULAR. SO, ALRIGHT. SO, UM, WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US IS THE ANNUAL REPORT SUGGESTIONS, WHAT DISCUSSIONS ON THOSE, AND THEN WE'LL GO TO MOTIONS. MR. NARY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, YEAH, JUST, UM, A QUICK NOTE. I WANTED TO, TO ASK, UM, WHERE WE STAND ON. UM, I KNOW IN THE PAST WE RECOMMENDED AN EXPANSION OF THE NOTIFICATION DISTANCE AREA. UM, WHERE, WHERE DOES THAT CURRENTLY STAND? SO, UH, YES, SIR. UM, IT WAS RECOMMENDED THAT WE EXPAND THE 200 FEET OF NOTIFICATION TEXAS STATUTE, AND THE CODE SAYS A MINIMUM OF 200 FEET. UH, TWO YEARS AGO WHEN I BROUGHT FORWARD THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS BOARD ON THE 200 FEET, UH, WE GOT SOME PUSHBACK AND SEVERAL COUNCIL MEMBERS AT AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEETING OF THE COUNCIL SAID, YOU WANT MORE THAN 200 FEET? ISN'T 200 FEET TOO MUCH? THIS IS THE FEEDBACK WE GOT. AND SO, UH, WE DECIDED TO DROP IT. 'CAUSE THAT WAS THE FEEDBACK AT THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE OF THE COUNCIL. NOW, IF IT IS THE WISDOM OF THE BOARD TO APPROACH THAT, AGAIN, WE WILL DO THAT. BUT THAT WAS THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT FROM SEVERAL CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. GO AHEAD, MR. N ASSUME WE IN, IN, ALONG WITH OUR REQUEST. I ASSUME WE PROVIDED THE RATIONALE BEHIND IT, OF COURSE, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T, WE WERE GETTING, WE WEREN'T GETTING ENOUGH RESPONSE. OF COURSE. YES. AND THE, THE FEEDBACK WAS, UH, THE, THE, THERE, THERE WASN'T AN APPETITE FOR THAT. INTERESTING. AND IN FACT, THE COMMENT WAS, YOU WANT, YOU WANT TO DO THAT JUST FOR FENCE HEIGHTS AND, AND VARIANCES. SO, AND I SAID, NO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TOTAL NOTIFICATION AND IT JUST WAS NOT WELL RECEIVED. NO. BUT AGAIN, I THINK, BUT AGAIN, WE WILL, WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THIS BODY REQUEST, THIS, THIS ONE INDIVIDUAL MEMBER WOULD LIKE US TO CONTINUE TO TRY TO OBTAIN THAT. 'CAUSE I THINK IT, IT SERVES THE CITIZENS OF DALLAS BETTER. SO I WOULD, UH, SUGGEST THAT WE ONCE AGAIN ASK THAT, THAT BE INCREASED TO 300 FEET. OKAY. COM. OTHER COMMENTS? MR. SA? I'VE GOT MR. SLATE, UH, MR. SINGTON AND MR. SLADE, UM, AND MR. AGNIS, CHAIR NEWMAN. UM, I'D LIKE TO, UM, ASK, UM, CONSENT THAT THE FULL LIST OF SUGGESTED GOALS FROM THE MEMBER BE SUBMITTED, UH, WITH THE, UH, INFORMATION FOR RECORD. SAY THAT AGAIN? I'D LIKE TO ASK THAT THE FULL LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE SUBMITTED FOR GOALS BY THE OTHER MEMBER BE SUBMITTED FOR RECOMMENDATIONS. IT WAS YOU. YES. NO, THAT'S FINE. GO AHEAD. I WAS DONE. YEP. UM, YOU, YOU ARE WELCOME MR. SINGTON TO MAKE A MOTION TO AMEND THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE OFFICERS. THE, THE COMMENTS, THE SUGGESTIONS YOU MADE WERE INCORPORATED IN PART, BUT SEVERAL OF THEM, IT WAS THE OPINION OF THE OFFICERS UNANIMOUSLY THAT THEY WERE OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF WHAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS. VICE CHAIR, I MEAN, UM, CHAIR AGNE, UM, NEWMAN. MY, MY REQUEST WAS THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE SUBMITTED BY THE MEMBER BE INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE INFORMATION PACKET. THAT, THAT, THAT'S ALL, NOT, NOT THAT ANYTHING BE AMENDED, BUT THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS I'D LIKE FOR THOSE TO BE SUBMITTED FOR RECORD SUBMITTED AS THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE, OF THE BOARD TO THE COUNCIL OR SUBMITTED AS THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF THE BOARD. I'M CONFUSED FOR, FOR, FOR, FOR INFORMATION, UH, CHAIR NEWMAN FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES, ALONG WITH THE, ALONG WITH THE, UH, WITH THE TOTAL PACKAGE WITH THE BOARD PACKET, THE DOCKET FOR, FOR PURPOSES OF ADOPTION OR PURPOSES [05:10:01] OF INFORMATION. FOR PURPOSES OF INFORMATION, I'LL BE GLAD TO CIRCULATE THAT FOR PURPOSE OF INFORMATION YES. CIRCULATE HOW? I'M SORRY. WHEN, WHEN YOU SAY CIRCULATE, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU, WELL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE, MR. SING CHAIR NEWMAN. I THINK ALL I'M ASKING IS THAT THE SUGGESTIONS THAT WERE EMAILED, THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD WAS ASKED TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS FOR GOALS. YES. CORRECT. RIGHT, CORRECT. SUGGESTIONS WERE SUBMITTED. YES. I'D JUST LIKE FOR THOSE SUGGESTIONS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE FULL DOCKET THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY PUBLISHED. IS THAT, IS THERE SOME OBJECTION TO THAT? THE, THE DOCKET HAS ALREADY BEEN PUBLISHED. IT WAS PUBLISHED SEVEN DAYS AGO. THE EMAIL THAT WENT OUT FROM THE BOARD SECRETARY TO THE ENTIRE BOARD THROUGH THE BOARD SECRETARY WAS THAT WE WELCOME FEEDBACK AND SUGGESTIONS ON RECOMMENDATIONS, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, AND GOALS AND OBJECTIVES FOR 2020 4 25, AND THAT WE WOULD INCORPORATE THAT IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE MAKE TO THE FULL BOARD. THAT'S WHAT THE EMAIL WAS. IF YOU, IF YOU SO AND SO, AS I SAID, SEVERAL OF, OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS WERE INCORPORATED. SEVERAL WERE NOT BECAUSE IT WAS THE COLLECTIVE DECISION THAT THEY WERE OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF OUR CODE, OUR CODE, UM, ROLE. THANK YOU. CHAIR NEWMAN. OKAY, MR. AGNIS. OH, I'VE GOT MR. SLATE. DID MR. AG YES, GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, I MEAN, IF I CAN MAKE A SUGGESTION, IF YOU HAVE THOSE ON AN EMAIL, CAN HE READ THEM SO EVERYBODY CAN HEAR THEM? 'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE WOULD, HE'S ASKING OR FOR EVERYBODY TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT HE'S READ. YOU JUST WROTE THEM AS AN ADDENDUM THAT DID. HE JUST WANTS THAT, THAT'S ALL. WELL, I'LL BE GLAD TO INCLUDE THEM, UH, AS PART OF YOUR, AS A MEMBER'S RECOMMENDATION, BUT I'LL BE GLAD TO INCLUDE THAT. BUT THAT'S NOT PART OF WHAT WE'RE POTENTIALLY VOTING ON TO SEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. TOTALLY UNDERSTOOD. MR. SLATE, UH, TWO KIND OF UNRELATED ITEMS. ONE, TO BUILD ON WHAT MR. UH, MI WAS TALKING ABOUT, I DID WANNA NOTE THAT A REASON WHY THE, UH, NOTIFICATION ZONE WASN'T ENLARGED WAS A, IF I'M RECALLING CORRECTLY, A BELIEF THAT ANYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED, OF COURSE, THE, THE NOTICE DOESN'T JUST INCLUDE MAILING TO NEARBY FOLKS. THE NOTICE ALSO INCLUDES PUTTING UP SIGNAGE. AND SO THERE WAS A BELIEF THAT INDIVIDUALS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHO WOULD BE IMPACTED BY POTENTIAL CHANGES WOULD SEE THE SIGNAGE AND BE ABLE TO, UH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH, WITH WHAT WE WERE HEARING EARLIER ABOUT THE QR CODES AND OTHER THINGS COULD FIND OUT MORE ABOUT IT. AND SO IT WASN'T JUST THE, THE NOTIFICATION WASN'T LIMITED TO ONLY THE MAILINGS. UM, THE OTHER THING IS, I'M NOT SURE IF WE'RE AT A SPOT WHERE WE SHOULD BE CHATTING ABOUT THE PROPOSED ADJUSTMENTS TO THE WORKING RULES. UM, WE ARE NOT YET. OKAY. 'CAUSE I NOT YET KNOW THAT THAT WAS PART OF ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE ASSOCIATED. YES, CORRECT. OKAY. CORRECT. BUT MR. AGNES, THEN MR. FINNEY, THEN MS. P*****K, UH, I DON'T KNOW THE, I THINK THAT WHEN WE PROPOSE THINGS TO THE CITY COUNCIL, WE SHOULD SPELL IT CORRECTLY. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I NEED TO PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT. THERE'S AN O MISSING P-R-O-P-S-E-D. WE WILL, WE WILL CORRECT THAT. OBVIOUSLY. DOES THAT REQUIRE AN AMENDMENT TO DO THAT? NO, THAT'S A TYPO. THAT WILL BE CORRECTED. WE'RE JUST THAT FISH. THAT'S, THANK YOU. UH, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I WOULD ALSO NOTE THAT LIKE ANYTHING THAT IS A BOARD, UH, A MOTION, WE ARE SUBJECT TO AMENDMENT. IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MR. FINNEY, UM, ON THE SUBJECT OF ADVOCATING FOR AN INCREASE IN NOTIFICATION RADIUS, IS IT POSSIBLE TO ATTACH, UH, CONDITIONS FOR THE INCREASED, UH, RADIUS FOR CERTAIN CONTEXTS? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT A SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD IS A VERY DIFFERENT CONTEXT FROM AN URBAN MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE'S A LOT MORE PEOPLE IN AN URBAN THAN A 200 FOOT RADIUS IN AN URBAN MIXED USE CONTEXT THAN, THAN A SINGLE FAMILY. AND I DON'T KNOW, I JUST FEEL LIKE IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE FOR A ONE SIZE FITS ALL IF WE'RE GONNA ACTUALLY INCREASE THE MINIMUM. THAT THANK YOU, MR. FINNEY. THAT IS THE PREROGATIVE OF THE BOARD WHETHER IT WANTS TO ADVOCATE A CODE CHANGE. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT WOULD REQUIRE. THE 200 FEET IS EMBEDDED IN THE CODE, IS IT NOT? NO, IT'S OKAY. MS. BOARD, BOARD ATTORNEY. YES, THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO IF IT'S BED EMBEDDED IN THE CODE, IT'D HAVE TO GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, ZAC, AND ALSO THE FULL CITY COUNCIL TO CHANGE THE NOTIFICATION AREA. [05:15:01] OH, OKAY. AND, AND THEN WE'D HAVE TO DIS DIS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN ONE TYPE OF NOTIFICATION FOR ONE TYPE OF REQUEST VERSUS THE OTHER. NOW, THAT IS SOMETHING WE COULD CONSIDER. I'M JUST GIVING YOU THE REALITY TEST TWO YEARS AGO THAT, THAT THE, THE FEEDBACK, I, I THINK MR. FINNEY RA THIS IS A GOOD POINT. UM, I, I REALLY WASN'T CONSIDERING THE POTENTIAL INCREASED COST OF PRINTING AND MAILING. PARTICULARLY IF, IF AN AREA IS MULTIFAMILY OR, YOU KNOW, APARTMENT DWELLERS AND THAT SORT OF THING. I MEAN, I COULD SEE WHERE THAT WOULD, WOULD REALLY INCREASE THE BUDGET. BUT IDEALLY, I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO INCREASE THE ZONE OF NOTIFICATION ZONE. THE C CITY PLAN COMMISSION, IF I'M CORRECT, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, ATTORNEY ONE, TWO OR, UM, UH, MS. MAY HAS DIFFERENT NOTIFICATIONS BASED ON TYPES OF ZONING. CORRECT? THERE'S 200, 300 AND THERE'S 500, IS THAT CORRECT? AND THE, AND THE AREA, DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF ZONING, CORRECT? ON THE, ON THE MIC, PLEASE. YES. NOT NECESSARILY THE TYPE OF ZONING, BUT THE TYPE OF REQUEST, THE TYPE OF REQUEST, THANK YOU. TYPE OF REQUEST. SO THAT'S WHICH POISON WE WANT TO CHOOSE. IF WE WANNA SO ADVOCATE THAT I'M JUST GIVING YOU THE FEEDBACK OF WHAT THE FEEDBACK WE GOT TWO YEARS AGO. GO AHEAD. I WAS WONDERING IF I'D BE INTERESTED IN, UH, LOOKING BEHIND THE CURTAIN REAL QUICK. UM, YOU KNOW, I'M COMING OUT OF THE CODE AMENDMENTS TEAM AND PART OF OUR, UH, WE WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, UH, BRING MORE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION INTO ALL OF OUR, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC HEARINGS THAT WE HAVE. UM, AND SO WE ARE WORKING TO FIND OTHER WAYS OF GETTING PEOPLE INVOLVED, INCLUDING EMAIL NOTICES AND ALL, ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA THINGS AND EVERYTHING. SO, UM, JUST WANTED TO LET Y'ALL KNOW THAT WE'RE, UH, WE'RE TRYING TO ALSO EVOLVE OUR PARTICIPATION PROCESS BY LOOKING OUTSIDE OF POSTAGE MAILED NOTICES. SO WE ARE ALSO WORKING ON THAT BEHIND THE SCENES. THANK YOU. SO, UM, WHAT I'M GONNA DO IS ASK FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE FIRST OF ALL, THE PROPOSED 2020 3 24 ACCOMPLISHMENTS. THE CHAIR WOULD SO, UH, ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE, APPROVE THE 2324 ACCOMPLISHMENTS. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY VICE CHAIR GABO TO APPROVE THE PROPOSED TWO 2020 3 24 ACCOMPLISHMENTS. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. CANNON. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MR. AGNES? I WAS GETTING READY TO VOTE. OH, OKAY. VERY GOOD DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MS. P*****K, I DON'T HAVE A PARTICULAR DISCUSSION POINT ON THE MOTION, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, MAKE A, A COMMENT AND MAY PERHAPS A SUGGESTION IF THE RESPONSE YOU RECEIVE FROM THE CITY COUNCIL IS ANY INDICATION OF WHAT THEY THINK THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT NEEDS. PERHAPS THEY NEED SOME EDUCATION ABOUT WHAT THE BOARD OF EDU WHAT THE BOARD. I MEAN, IF THEY THINK WE ONLY DEAL WITH FENCE HEIGHTS, THEY PERHAPS NEED SOME TYPE OF EDUCATION ABOUT OUR ROLE. WELL, UM, I, I, I DON'T PRETEND TO ANTICIPATE, I DON'T PRETEND TO TRY TO EDUCATE THE CITY COUNCIL THAT APPOINTS US AND JUST, WE ARE APPOINTED INDIVIDUALLY BY THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THE MAYOR. AND, AND, AND SO THEY, THEY, THEY ARE THE ONES IN THE END THAT MAKE THE POLICY DECISION. SO I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UH, WHEN WE GET TO THE ISSUE OF, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, IF THE BODY WANTS TO INCLUDE A CHANGE IN RECOMMENDATIONS, I WILL CARRY FORWARD THAT I'M JUST GIVING THE FEEDBACK OF TWO YEARS AGO. UH, I WILL TELL YOU THAT I MET WITH AS MANY MEMBERS OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE LAST TIME. BEFORE THAT CAME UP. IT GOT APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY, BUT THERE WAS HESITANT ABOUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE NOTIFICATION. AND IT WAS A KIND OF A SUMMARY DISMISSAL. SO, MS. SO MAY I NOMINATE MS. P*****K AS A SPECIAL EMISSARY MR. FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL? THAT THAT IS OUT OF ORDER FOR WHAT'S ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WHAT'S ON, WHAT'S ON MR. KOVICH? THIS IS DISCUSSION ON 2020 3 24 ACCOMPLISHMENTS. WELL, THE, THE POINT I WANTED TO MAKE, UH, I DON'T THINK WAS SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THAT WAS, THAT'S ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW. IT WAS RELATED TO THE DISCUSSION WE'VE HAD IN THE COURSE OF THIS, BUT, UM, I GUESS I'LL HOLD IT. YES, I YOU'LL BE IN ORDER THEN. I, I WANNA GET A A. ALRIGHT. UH, IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MS. GABO AND SECONDED BY MR. CANNON TO, UH, APPROVE THE PROPOSED 2324 ACCOMPLISHMENTS. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. [05:20:01] AYE. THOSE OPPOSED? THOSE ABSTENTIONS ARE, IT'S APPROVED. UH, WE'RE AT 12 MEMBERS RIGHT NOW. SO IS THAT 12? LET ME COUNT AGAIN. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. IT'S APPROVED. 12 TO 12 TO ZERO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA ARE, ARE YOU LEAVING THE CHAMBER, MR. AGNES? OH MY GOSH. OKAY. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS 2020 4 25. GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD ADOPT THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES FOR NEXT YEAR. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. KOVI TO, UH, ADOPT THE 24 25 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. IS THERE A SECOND? UH, I SECOND. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. FINNEY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. YES, MRS. UM, I, I'D JUST LIKE TO STATE, UM, ONE, ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT, THAT WAS SUBMITTED, UM, FOR, UH, SUGGESTION OF GOALS, UH, RELATED TO, UM, DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION INITIATIVES. UM, POINT BEING, UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S A CHALLENGE WITH RECRUITING AND RETAINING MEMBERS FROM LESS AFFLUENT DISTRICTS. UM, ESTABLISH, UM, GOALS TO PROMOTE DIVERSITY WITHIN THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, ENSURING REPRESENTATION FROM VARIOUS COMMUNITY SECTORS AND PERSPECTIVES. FOR EXAMPLE, REVISING, UM, IN-PERSON MEETING REQUIREMENTS THAT MIGHT ALLOW MEMBERS TO ATTEND ONLINE. UM, I KNOW THAT THOSE, THAT, THAT IS VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE IS SOMETHING THAT IS LIKELY, UH, TO, IN THE FUTURE BE DISCONTINUED. BUT I, I WOULD JUST HOPE THAT WE WOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT, UM, THIS IS A VOLUNTEER, UM, ROLE THAT WE SERVE IN. AND MANY PEOPLE FROM COMMUNITIES, OR MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT SELF-EMPLOYED OR RETIRED OR IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN, LIKE MYSELF, I MEAN, I'M WORKING CLASS, I WORK EVERY DAY, BUT I'M, I'M, I'M IN A POSITION WHERE I CAN, I CAN TAKE OFF WORK AND, AND ATTEND THE MEETINGS. THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN LESS AFFLUENT AREAS. SO I THINK WE JUST NEED TO CONSIDER IF WE WANT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES FROM ACROSS THE CITY, WE NEED TO MAKE IT REASONABLE FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND IN THIS VOLUNTEER ROLE. SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS THAT WERE, THAT WAS IN THE, THE, THE, THAT THE GOALS THAT I SUBMITTED. I JUST LIKE FOR THAT TO BE AT LEAST ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT WE LOOK AT. WE WANT DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES. WE WANT REPRESENTATION FROM ACROSS THE CITY. WE WANT COUNCIL MEMBERS TO BE ABLE TO APPOINT FROM THEIR SO THAT ALL OF THE VARIOUS DISTRICTS ARE REPRESENTED ON THIS BOARD. AND I'LL LEAVE IT THERE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, WE DO NOT CHOOSE OUR MEMBERS. WE DON'T EVEN INFLUENCE THE CHOICE OF OUR MEMBERS. NOW WE HAVE TWO VACANCIES ON THE BOARD RIGHT NOW. EXCUSE ME. THREE, ONE ALTERNATE AND TWO FULL-TIME MEMBERS VACANCIES ON THE BOARD. I'VE GONE TO EACH MEMBER OF THE, EACH OF THOSE COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THE MAYOR AND SAID, WE WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO APPOINT SOMEONE. AND THEY SAID, WE'RE LOOKING. AND I SAID, OKAY. AND THAT'S AS FAR AS AS, AS THAT I DARE GO. NOW, ON OCCASION, I GRAB AN ALTERNATE AND CONVINCE THE COUNCIL MEMBER TO TAKE THAT ALTERNATE AND APPOINT THEM AS THEIR APPOINTEE. BUT THAT'S THE DISCRETION. THAT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION OF A COUNCIL MEMBER. WE DO NOT CHOOSE WHO REPRESENTS EACH COUNCIL MEMBER IN EACH DISTRICT. THAT IS, THAT'S JUST WE, WE DON'T, MS. DAVIS. THEN I HAVE MR. SINGTON, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CREATE A DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION, UM, POLICY. I MEAN, EVERY BOARD THAT I'M ON AND EVERY BOARD THAT I'M AWARE OF HAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO ENSURE THAT DIVERSITY. AND THAT I, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH WHERE YOU'RE, WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, THAT THAT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE, OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THE CHARTER AND THE DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE DEVELOPMENT CODE SPECIFICALLY SAYS THE CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR APPOINT MEMBERS. THE CITY SECRETARY DIVIDES INTO PANELS. AND, AND THAT'S WHERE THE ORIGIN OF THE BOARD COMES FROM. THAT IS A DISCRETION FOR THE COUNCIL MEMBERS ACROSS THE CITY. THAT, I MEAN, THAT IS, THAT THAT IS, AND THAT IS THE, AND THAT'S THE CASE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION, LANDMARK COMMISSION. I THINK IT'S THE CASE FOR ALL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ACROSS. IT'S A FUNCTION OF THE COUNCIL MEMBER OR THE CITY COUNCIL MAKING THAT DECISION. SO SOMEONE SAID BEFORE ABOUT [05:25:01] EDUCATING THE COUNCIL, UH, I, I DARE NOT DO THAT. SOMETIMES BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS TRY TO DO THAT TO THEIR PERIL. I'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT. MR. SASHING, ARE WE NOT IN A POSITION TO ADVISE THE CITY COUNCIL? DON'T WE SERVE IN, DON'T WE SERVE IN AT LEAST YOURSELF CHAIR, CHAIR NEWMAN? AREN'T YOU IN A POSITION TO ADVISE, UM, COUNCIL MEMBERS? UM, I DO IT BASED ON, UH, THE WILL OF THE BOARD AND TO PROTECT WHAT THE INTENT OF THE BOARD IS AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL ELEMENT OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT THAT REPRESENTS ALL OF THE DISTRICTS OF DALLAS, ALL OF THE DISTRICTS. IT DOESN'T SAY THAT I'M, I'M, I'M, 'CAUSE THEY'RE SURE IT SPEAKS TO REPRESENTATION OF, OF EVERY DISTRICT. THERE ARE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD THAT ARE NOT IN THE SAME DISTRICT AS THEY'RE APPOINTED. THERE ARE SEVERAL IF THAT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT. BUT THAT IS THE INTENT THOUGH, ISN'T IT? I, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SPEAK, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL'S INTENT. YOU CHOOSE NOT TO SPEAK TO THE COUN, TO THE INTENT. OH, MR. SINGTON, COME ON YOU BECAUSE YOU CAN SPEAK TO IT. UH, CHAIR NEWMAN, WE ALL KNOW THAT. WELL, I, I SPEAK TO THE, THE FRAMEWORK, WHICH THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE CREATES THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND IT SAYS HOW WE'RE CREATED, IT SAYS THE AUTHORITY THAT WE HAVE. AND DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT COME COLOR TO ADD TO THAT? YES, CHAIRMAN, IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T MIND, IF IT PLEASES THE BOARD, I WOULD ADD, UM, FROM SECTION 51, A 3 1 0 2, WHICH IS THE SECTION THAT CREATES THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I HAD IT BRIEFLY IN MY PRESENTATION. AND SO IF YOU DON'T MIND A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, CERTAINLY I WOULD JUST READ THIS LINE INTO IT. THE CITY SECRETARY SHALL DIVIDE THE BOARD INTO THE PANELS OF FIVE MEMBERS. EACH. A BOARD MEMBER MAY SERVE ON ONLY ONE PANEL. AND HERE'S THE LINE THAT IS, UH, PERTINENT TO THE DISCUSSION. TO THE GREATEST EXTENT PRACTICABLE, THE PANELS MUST REFLECT THE GEOGRAPHIC AND ETHNIC DIVERSITY OF THE CITY. SO IT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE CODE. UM, TO MR. TON'S POINT AND MS. DAVIS'S POINT, I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT TO ATTENTION TO THE BOARD AND MY FAILURE. I SHOULD HAVE RECALLED THAT THERE IS THAT PROVISION. SO COUNCIL MEMBERS INDIVIDUALLY CAN APPOINT WHOEVER THEY WANT. THE CITY SECRETARY ASSIGNS THE PANELS BASED ON THAT CRITERIA IN ORDER TO BE SENSITIVE TO THAT ISSUE. MR. MR. AGNIS? YEAH, I WOULD, I WAS GONNA MENTION THAT I, IT'S AN INTERESTING CLAUSE FOR, IT DOESN'T SAY GENDER, BY THE WAY. IT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT GENDER AT ALL. IT, IT'S, UH, IT TELLS THE CITY'S SECRETARY, ONCE YOU GET 15 PEOPLE DIVVY THEM UP AND DON'T GERRYMANDER ONE, DON'T MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THE DISTRICTS, UH, ARE IN, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PANELS, ET CETERA. BUT IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT AS, AS OPPOSED TO CPC, ALL OF US ARE ESSENTIALLY AT LARGE MEMBERS. WE, WE HAVE NO, IN FACT HAVE AN OBLIGATION NOT TO HAVE A DUTY TO THE DISTRICT THAT APPOINTS US. WE ARE, WE ARE AT LARGE MEMBERS, WHICH IS WHY, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN, YOU CAN LIVE IN A DISTRICT THAT ISN'T, UH, THE ONE THAT APPOINTS YOU. I'D ALSO NOTE WE DO HAVE A, AN ALTERNATE VACANCY. ANYBODY CAN, CAN APPOINT AN ANY COUNCIL PERSON OR THE, OR THE MAYOR. SO I'M SURE THEY WOULD LOVE TO HAVE APPLICANT IDEAS. AND THERE'S NOTHING, I MEAN, ONE, ONE COUNCIL MEMBER COULD IN FACT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOMINATING ALL SIX ALTERNATES. NOTHING STOPPED. UH, UH, THE ANSWER IS ONE IS FROM SEVERAL OF THEM. I JUST WANTED TO BUBBLE. WAIT, HOLD ON. MR. STON. I'M GONNA GO TO MR. NARY NEXT. MR. N UH, YES. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, I DO AGREE WITH MR. SINGTON, EXCUSE ME. UM, IN AND OF THE FACT THAT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US INTERNALLY, WHILE WE DON'T PICK THE MEMBERS OF OUR PANEL OR OUR BOARD, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO MAKE AVAILABLE, UM, THE ABILITY TO ATTEND MEETINGS VIRTUALLY. UM, I KNOW FOR MYSELF, WORKING FOR THE AIRLINES, AS YOU KNOW, I'M OUT OF TOWN A GREAT DEAL. UH, PARTICULARLY IF, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MORE PLANNING MEETINGS OR GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE HAVING QUARTERLY MEETINGS. UM, I DO UNDERSTAND THE, THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WORK FOR A LIVING AND THEY CAN'T ALWAYS, UH, ATTEND IN PERSON. SO FOR, FOR THIS ONE BOARD MEMBER, UM, I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, UH, TO, TO HAVE THAT VIRTUAL OPTION, UH, AVAILABLE. AND I THINK THAT GOING FORWARD, I THINK IT WOULD HELP, UH, MORE PEOPLE BE WILLING TO SERVE AND, AND POSSIBLY FILL, UH, VACANCIES IF THEY KNEW THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY COULD ATTEND VIRTUALLY. SO I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT IN THERE. THANK YOU. THE ATTENDANCE, VIRTUALLY OR NOT, IS GOVERNED BY A ORDER BY THE [05:30:01] CITY MANAGER BASED ON THE TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL'S INTERPRETATION, I BELIEVE CORRECTLY. IS THAT CORRECT? ATTORNEY? ONE, TWO OR THREE? IT'S, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL DICTATED OR CREATED. I THINK IT HAD TO GOES BACK TO A CITY MANAGER DECISION. AND IT APPLIES ALL OR NONE. IT APPLIES TO, AND, AND I THINK IT ALSO APPLIES FOR CITY COUNCIL. SO IT APPLIES FOR CITY COUNCIL AND OR ALL BOARDS OR COMMISSION. I DON'T KNOW MR. MOORE. IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. IT COMES FROM THE 13TH AMENDED COVID REGULATIONS, WHICH WERE PROMULGATED BY THE OLD CITY MANAGER. AND THEY, THOSE WERE TIED TO THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY DECLARATIONS RELATED TO COID, WHICH THE GOVERNOR KEPT, UM, EXTENDING BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR'S ABILITY TO DECLARE EMERGENCIES WAS FOR 30 DAYS. BUT I BELIEVE THEY EXPIRED IN MARCH IN SPRING OF 23. MAYBE IT WAS SUMMER OF 23, BUT THEY EXPIRED SOMEWHAT RECENTLY, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH. UM, AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT, THE CITY'S 13TH AMENDED COVID REGULATIONS ALSO EXPIRED. SO WHAT IS, SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THAT MEANS THAT THERE IS A BOARD CAN HAVE ALL IN PERSON OR HYBRID MEETINGS. SO IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A DISCRETION OF THE BOARD. ARE YOU SURE OF THIS, MR. MOORE? THERE IS NOTHING IN CHAPTER EIGHT THAT SAYS CHAPTER EIGHT HAS NOT BEEN AMENDED POST COVID POST THE CHANGES TO TOOMA THAT ALLOWED FOR HYBRID MEETINGS. WE'RE STILL, WE, WE THE CITY SORT OF STILL OPERATED UNDER THE SCENARIO THAT, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. MORE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, YES. VIA HYBRID WAS A GOOD THING. YES. AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AS OF TODAY. OKAY. BUT THERE IS, SO THAT'S AS CLEAR AS MUD. THERE, THERE IS NO, THERE IS NO DOCUMENT THAT I CAN POINT TO THAT SAYS YOU MUST HAVE A HYBRID MEETING. MUST ALLOW FOR, YOU MUST ALLOW FOR OR MUST HAVE. SO TOOMA, EITHER TOMA SAID THAT WE MAY PROVIDE FOR HYBRID MEETINGS, BUT THE 13TH AMENDED COVID REGULATIONS SAID THAT WE MUST PROVIDE FOR HYBRID MEETINGS. BUT THAT THOSE COVID AMENDED REGULATIONS EXPIRED. AND I CAN GET YOU THE EXACT DATE. UM, NO, ONCE I GET BACK IN FRONT OF MY COMPUTER. SO WE'RE THERE, WE'RE BACK TO, WE MAY HAVE HYBRID MEETINGS. AND IS THAT DECISION MAKING FOR THE CITY AS A WHOLE, OR BOARD BY BOARD, CITY COUNCIL OR OTHERWISE? OR WE, WE GENERALLY LET THE CITY MANAGER LIKE, MAKE THAT DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT, OR THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE MAKE THAT DECISION. AND HAVE THEY MADE THAT DECISION? THE, WE STILL DO HYBRID MEETINGS. OKAY. SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE INTERPRETATION. MR. SINGTON, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE? YEAH, JUST WANTED, JUST WANTED TO JUST RESAY I WANTED TO BUBBLE THAT, THAT THIS TOPIC, YOU KNOW, UP SO THAT WE CAN DISCUSS IT. BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE HAD A VOICE IN THE LAST SPECIAL CALL MEETING. BUT BECAUSE OF WORK, I WAS TRAVELING, THEREFORE I HAD NO VOICE OR VOTE IN THAT MEETING. AND I THINK EVERY VOICE IN EVERY VOTE IS IMPORTANT TO THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE HAVE. MR. SASHING, I THINK WE, WE WERE DIALING IN. YES. PE WE HAD ON THAT MEETING, WE HAD 14 MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE ONLINE. AND WE HAD SIX ONLINE. AND THE REST HERE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 17TH OF SEPTEMBER. THE 17TH MEETING. YES. ABSOLUTELY. ALL OF OUR, MY APOLOGIES THEN. ALL OF OUR MEETINGS HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE. HYBRID. NO, I WAS IN THE SKIFF. IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT. IT WAS MINE. OKAY. I WAS IN SKIFF, . I WAS IN THE SKIFF. OKAY. WELL ALL OF OUR, I WAS IN THE, ALL OF OUR MEETINGS HAVE BEEN HYBRID. NOW. I, I, DR. GLOVER, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? AND THEN I'M GONNA MAKE A COMMENT AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO A VOTE. 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO GET US OUTTA HERE BY FOUR. ALRIGHT, WELL, I THINK WHAT MR. SUTON SAYS HOLDS A LOT OF CREDITS. UM, WHY I SAY THAT IS THAT WE ABUSE ON THE BOARD TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS RECOMMENDATIONS IF IT'S OUT OF THE AMBIT OF OUR PRACTICE. UM, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO CREATE AN ENABLING ENVIRONMENT FOR PEOPLE TO BE INTERESTED IN SERVING ON THE BOARD. HERE WE ARE FACED WITH A SITUATION WHERE THREE PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY QUIT, AND IT MAY BE BECAUSE OF THESE CHALLENGES THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. SO, UM, IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THERE TO BE A LEVEL PLAYING GROUND AND MAKE THIS AN ATTRACTIVE BOARD TO SERVE ON. SO, MS. CAMPBELL, I'LL SPEAK 'CAUSE TWO OF THE PEOPLE THAT LEFT THE BOARD WERE ON MY [05:35:01] PANEL, AND ONE WAS A GENTLEMAN THAT HE HAD A, UNFORTUNATELY, A STANDING MEETING ON A WEDNESDAY AND ATTENDING VIRTUALLY OR IN PERSON WAS NOT AN OPTION. UM, WE TRIED TO MOVE HIM TO ANOTHER PANEL. WE WERE NOT UNABLE TO DO THAT. THE OTHER PERSON WAS, UM, EXPERIENCING HEALTH ISSUES. AGAIN, ATTENDING VIRTUALLY OR IN PERSON WAS NOT GOING TO HELP HIM STAY ON THE BOARD. UM, I MEAN, AGAIN, I THINK I AM THE LONGEST STANDING MEMBER ON THE BOARD. UM, AND UNTIL COVID, YOU DID HAVE TO BE IN PERSON. UM, AND I CAN DEFINITELY SAY BEING IN PERSON IS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT. I HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE TWICE NOW OF BEING ONLINE AND HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY GRATEFUL FOR IT. UM, ONE WAS BECAUSE I HAD KNEE SURGERY AND COULDN'T BE HERE AND DID IT ONLINE. AND ANOTHER ONE, I WAS GETTING TO SEE MY SON IN COLLEGE. AND I WAS SO GRATEFUL TO BE ABLE TO DO BOTH. BUT I DO THINK, I DO THINK WHEN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT JOIN THE BOARD, BEING IN PERSON, BECAUSE YOU, YOU CAN'T HAVE A JOB AND BE DOING YOUR WORK AND LISTENING TO A CASE AT THE SAME TIME. YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR FULL FOCUS ON THE CASE OR YOU'RE GONNA MISS SOME NUANCES. SO, AND I WILL TELL YOU, EVEN THOUGH I'M GRATEFUL THAT I WAS IN THOSE TWO MEETINGS ONLINE, I WASN'T AS GOOD OF A BOARD MEMBER AS WHEN I'M IN PERSON AND I'M, I'M SORRY, I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T EVEN PUT THAT ON RECORD. I WAS NOT PAYING AS MUCH ATTENTION WHEN I AM ONLINE AS WHEN I'M IN PERSON. SO AS MUCH AS WE CAN ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO BE IN PERSON, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO BE AN EFFECTIVE BOARD. AND IT'S ONE DAY OUT OF THE MONTH. AND I THINK A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT HAVE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR 'EM ARE HAPPY TO HAVE SOMEONE SERVING IN THE CAPACITY AT THE CITY AND WILL WILLINGLY GIVE THE DAY OFF, UM, WHEN THEY'RE TOLD WHAT IT'S FOR. BUT I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT DIVERSITY, YES. AND IF WE CAN ENCOURAGE CITY COUNCIL THROUGH OUR GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A MORE DIVERSE BOARD. ABSOLUTELY. IF THEY SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT THAT. I'M ALL FOR THAT. BUT I DO NOT THINK WE CAN. I THINK WE SHOULD TRY OUR VERY BEST TO BE IN PERSON AT ALL TIMES. AND I, AGAIN, TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IT, THANKFUL FOR IT. UM, BUT I TRY REALLY HARD NOT TO DO THAT. AND I MEAN, I'VE MISSED, I'VE MISSED ONE MEETING AND I'VE ATTENDED VIRTUALLY TWICE IN 10 YEARS JUST FOR PERSPECTIVE. SO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S ONE DAY A MONTH AND I'VE JUST COMMITTED TO IT. THANK YOU MS. GABO. I WOULD, I THINK THE COVID CREATED THE, THE NECESSITY TO PRO PROVIDE, UM, ONLINE PARTICIPATION. I THINK THERE'S BEEN POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE OF THAT FOR CITY COUNCIL, FOR PLANNING COMMISSION, FOR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR SOCIETY. MY OWN OPINION IS WHEN WE ARE DEALING WITH SOMEONE'S PROPERTY, THEIR LIVELIHOOD, AND THEY STAND BEFORE US, THEY DESERVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW WHO THE DECISION MAKERS ARE ON THEIR REQUEST. AND OUR TRACK RECORD ON TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN LESS THAN SATISFACTORY. HALF. WELL, LOOK, TODAY, WE LOST ELECTRICITY HALF THE DAY, OR NOW THE TEMPERATURE HERE IS OKAY, BY THE WAY. YOU FEELING IT? IT'S CALMED DOWN. FINALLY, THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED OF ONLINE NOT GETTING CONNECTION VERSUS NOT HAS NOT BEEN THE BEST. AND IF AN APPLICANT STANDING BEFORE US, THEY DESERVE THE ACCESS TO WHO IS MAKING THE DECISION ON THEIR REQUEST. LIKEWISE, FOR THOSE IN THE OPPOSITION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S BEFORE US, THEY DESERVE TO, OUT OF FAIRNESS, TO KNOW WHO'S IN FRONT OF THEM. SO THAT'S WHAT KEEPS ME ALWAYS ENCOURAGING MEMBERS. I NEED YOU HERE IN PERSON. THE ALTERNATES THAT ARE HERE. YOU ALWAYS HEAR FROM ME. I NEED YOU TO SERVE, BUT I NEED YOU TO BE THERE IN PERSON BECAUSE I NEED, WE NEED THE OPPORTUNITY THAT FAIRNESS TO THE APPLICANT AND THE OPPOSITION IN PERSON IN A CRISIS IN COVID. OKAY, I GOT IT. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, AS MS. GABO SAID, IT'S ONE DAY A MONTH, GUYS, AND I PROMISE YOU I HAVE, I AMBUSHED A COUNCIL MEMBER. MR. AGNES AND I WERE TOGETHER ASHED A COUNCIL MEMBER IN THE GARAGE AS HE WAS WALKING IN. I'M GONNA LEAVE THE PERSON'S NAME. AND HE KIND OF WAS LIKE, STARTLED. AND I SAID, I APOLOGIZE. I SAID, I REALLY NEED YOUR, AND I AMBUSHED ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER THREE WEEKS LATER AND HE THOUGHT HE HAD ALREADY APPOINTED SOMEONE. AND I, AND I'M NOT NAMING NAMES, AND I SAID, OH NO, YOU, YOU HAVE A VACANCY. SO I PROMISE YOU I'M TRYING TO GET THOSE COUNCIL MEMBERS ACROSS THE CITY TO APPOINT. SO I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION. THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS TO ADOPT OUR 2020 3 24 25 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED PASSES. 12 TO ZERO. THANK YOU FOR, FOR THE RECORD. DID WE ADOPT THAT WITH MR. SING'S EXHIBIT OR, OR HOW? NO, WE ADOPTED AS A STANDALONE RECOMMENDATION OKAY. TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND WE ADOPTED AS A BOARD. OKAY. I SAID I WAS GONNA INCLUDE HIS [05:40:01] REQUEST, HIS SUGGESTIONS, AND CIRCULATE THAT TO THE BOARD. BUT THAT, BUT WHAT WE JUST ADOPTED, OUR SIX ITEMS WILL GO AS PART OF OUR ANNUAL REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL. AND IT'LL BE THE BASIS BY WHICH WE INTERACT WITH THE STAFF AND THE STAFF IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE OUR GOALS AND OBJECTIVES FOR THE YEAR. FOR THE RECORD CHAIR NEWMAN, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THE, UM, RECOMMEND THE SUGGESTIONS THAT, THAT WERE, THAT I SUBMITTED WOULD ALSO BE INCLUDED IN THAT INFORMATION PACKET THAT WENT TO THE BOARD. NOT AS A RECOMMENDED GOAL, BUT AT LEAST PART OF THE INFORMATION. I HEAR YOU. LAST ITEM ON THE, UH, UM, ANNUAL REPORT SUBMISSION IS RECOMMENDATION CITY COUNCIL. THIS IS ON PAGE 1 92. THIS GOES TO REQUEST THE CITY COUNCIL OVERSIGHT OF TIMELY OF PANELING AND DEVELOPMENT REQUEST TO CITY COUNCIL OVERSIGHT AND PER PERMITTING PROCESS AND THE RECOMMENDED CITY COUNCIL, THE APPROVED PROPOSED AMENDS TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, RULES OF PROCEDURE. THE CHAIRMAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION. SOMEBODY I PROPOSE A MOTION TO MR. FINNEY TO, UH, TO ADOPT THE, UM, WAIT, WHAT IS IT? PROPOSED RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL. PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS TO CITY COUNCIL. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. FINNEY. IS THERE A SECOND? AGNES WILL SECOND. MR. AGNES SECOND. THE MOTION DISCUSSION? IN THE MOTION. MR. SLADE. AND THEN I'VE GOT MR. CANNON THEN MR. OKAY. MR. SLADE, FIRST, SINCE THE RECOMMENDATION INCLUDES, UM, THE PROPOSED EDITS TO THE WORKING RULES OF PROCEDURE, WHEN WERE YOU CONTEMPLATING THAT WE MIGHT PROVIDE COMMENTS TO THOSE WORKING RULES? OR IS NOW THE TIME TO NOW'S THE TIME TO DO IT? OR, OR, OR IF WE WANT IT? THIS IS PRESUMED OF ANY AMENDMENTS THAT WE DO APPROVE WOULD GO TO AS A PART OF THE RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL. SO IS THE CONTEMPLATION THAT WE WILL THEN HAVE A SEPARATE MOTION TO DISCUSS AND WE WILL HAVE A SEPARATE DISCUSSION ON, ON THE RULES OF PROCEDURE? YES. OKAY. ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU. CAN WE DO THAT FIRST? WE COULD DO THAT FIRST. I'VE GOT MR. NARY AND THEN MR. CANNON. ALRIGHT, THAT WAS MY QUESTION. ALSO, UH, DISCUSSION AND CLARIFICATION ON THE RULES OF PROCEDURE OF PROCEDURE. THANK YOU. AND WE COULD EASILY, WE COULD EASILY HAVE THE DISCUSSION ON RULES OF PROCEDURE AND THEN COME BACK TO THIS. THERE ONE DOES NOT LOCK THE OTHER. MR. HVE? OH, UH, MR. CANNON. I APOLOGIZE. UH, TWO POINTS HERE. UM, FIRST OFF, I AM, THIS IS KIND OF GOING BACK WITH WHAT MR. SINGTON AND MS. DAVIS SAID ABOUT, UM, AS FAR AS DE I JUST SHORTENING IT UP HERE. I TOO HAVE SERVED ON MULTIPLE BOARDS WHERE THAT WAS A, A PRIMARY FOCUS. UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A RECOMMENDATION FOR, FOR THAT. AND I KNOW THAT MR. CHAIR NEWMAN SAID, THAT'S OUT OF OUR SCOPE, BUT I THINK WE ALL, AT LEAST, UM, SEE ON THE ELEVATORS WHAT THE CORE VALUES OF THE CITY IS. SO I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF OUR REALM TO AT LEAST HAVE A RECOMMENDATION SINCE THAT DOES ALIGN WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS VALUES. AND THAT'S ONE PART. AND THE SECOND PART TOO, THIS IS MORE GOING ON THE SECOND RECOMMENDATION WITH PERMITTING PROCESS AND POST NOW TO REDUCE PERMITTING ERRORS. I THINK THAT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WANTING OUR CITY COUNSELORS TO, TO REALLY TAKE UNDER ADVISEMENT AND ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF, AT LEAST WHAT IS REDUCING PERMITTING ERRORS IS THAT BY 10%, CAN WE GIVE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE TEETH SO THAT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WANTING THEM TO ACT ON, THEY CAN AT LEAST HAVE SOME KIND OF BASIS TO SAY, OKAY, OVER THE NEXT YEAR OUR BOARD IS RECOMMENDING WE REDUCE PERMITS BY X AMOUNT. SO JUST, JUST TO GIVE THESE MORE TEETH SO THAT OUR COUNSELORS CAN BE MORE ADVISED AND WORK ON IT IN A SMART WAY. UM, THANK YOU MR. CANNON. WOW. THAT, THAT, TO QUANTIFY THAT BECAUSE THEN IN ORDER TO, WE'D HAVE TO GET A DENOMINATOR. IN OTHER WORDS, HOW MANY OF THE, HOW MANY PERMITING HEIRS DO THEY HAVE NOW COMPARED TO WHAT THEY WOULD IN THE FUTURE? UM, THESE ARE MORE PHILOSOPHICAL RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE SENSE OF SAYING, PAY ATTENTION, PLEASE. THESE PERMITTING AREAS ARE CREATING RIPPLE EFFECTS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY. BUT IF THE BOARD WANTS TO PUT A NUMBER TO THIS, WE CAN, I, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. POOL WANTS TO SPEAK FOR DIRECTOR LIU AS IT RELATES TO WHAT HER GOAL IS AS IT RELATES TO PERMITTING ERRORS. BUT THAT MAY HELP ANSWER YOUR QUESTION TO THROW JASON RIGHT UNDER THE SEMI. AND DEFINITELY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM MR. POLAND. THIS JUST 'CAUSE YOU, UM, GAVE A VERY DETAILED PRESENTATION ON FACTS AND FIGURES EARLIER ON, THAT AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING I KNOW PERMITTING ERRORS IS KIND OF PLAGUING THE CITY. SO IF WE'RE PUTTING THIS, UM, IN A RECOMMENDATION, I [05:45:01] I LOOKING AT IT FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, PHILOSOPHICAL, THAT'S ONE THING. BUT IF WE REALLY WANT TO COME BACK HERE NEXT YEAR AND SEE, OKAY, THIS IS ON OUR SUCCESS LIST, THEN CAN YOU PROVIDE SOME COLOR AS TO HOW WE CAN MAKE THIS MORE OF A SMART RECOMMENDATION THAN, AND NOT JUST PHILOSOPHICAL. YEAH, PHILOSOPHICAL. THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. UM, TO DATE, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE TRACKED ERRORS WITH THAT OBJECTIVE. UM, I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TRYING TO STREAMLINE PROCESSES AND MAKE SURE, UH, WE HAVE THE BEST INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO AVOID MAKING MISTAKES. UM, I CAN GET WITH EMILY AND WE CAN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AND TRY TO, UH, SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE FURTHER. BUT AS OF AS OF TO DATE, WE HAVE NOT TRACKED MISTAKES. WE DO OUR BEST NOT TO MAKE ANY MISTAKES, BUT, UH, WE, WE CAN, WE CAN DEFINITELY TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. I AND GET BACK WITH YOU. MS. GABO, DO WE HAVE, I MEAN, YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF METRICS FROM 22 AND 23 AND THEN 2324. COULD WE JUST FROM A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PERSPECTIVE, GO BACK AND SAY, WE HAD X NUMBER OF CASES THAT CAME TO US BECAUSE OF A PERMITTING AREA ERA ERROR AND USE THAT AS OUR DENOMINATOR. AND THEN CI MEAN, AND THAT AT LEAST THAT'S A STARTING POINT FOR THEM TO HAVE A NUMBER. I MEAN, WE DON'T NEED A WHOLE CITY NUMBER. WE ONLY ARE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT THAT FROM A BOARD PERSPECTIVE AND AS WE, AS WE MOVE FORWARD, COMPARE IT TO NEXT YEAR AND JUST SAY THESE, THESE ARE THE ONES THAT CAME BASED ON A, ON A CITY ERROR. I, I LOVE THAT IDEA THAT THAT ZEROES RIGHT INTO CASES THAT COME TO US AND, AND WHAT THE SOURCE OR THE SOURCE OF THE, OF THE CASE THAT CAME TO US. BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL. 'CAUSE I OF ALSO OFTEN WONDER, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY PART OF WHAT WE HEAR AT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, BUT DID THE PLANS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO THE CITY MEET THE PLANS THAT ARE ON THE GROUND? AND I MEAN, SINCE WE, I MEAN, I KNOW WE SAY WE HAVE A LOT OF CASES, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE CITY OF DALLAS, 16 CASES IN A MONTH, IT'S NOTHING. UM, I MEAN, SO LET'S SAY ONE OR TWO OF THOSE CASES ARE A PERMITTING ERROR. CAN WE GO BACK AND FROM HERE ON OUT, DO THE RESEARCH TO SAY, WAS IT THE PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED AND IT WAS PERMITTABLE AND THEN THE PERSON ACTUALLY BUILT IT WRONG? 'CAUSE I THINK THAT WE, I DON'T THINK WE EVER GET THAT DATA. AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REALLY USEFUL PIECE OF INFORMATION FOR THE CITY AS WELL. AND WE'RE SUCH A SMALL PLACE, I THINK WE COULD HELP WITH THAT DATA. CERTAINLY. I THINK THAT'S DEFINITELY A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR PROCESSES AS A WHOLE WHENEVER THEY COME THROUGH AND PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE BACKGROUND INTO, INTO THE REPORTS TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE, A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION AND EQUIP YOUR DECISIONS. YEP. OKAY. SO I LOVE THAT IDEA OF CREATING A DENOMINATOR THAT'S MORE SPECIFIC. UM, THE QUESTION IS HOW EASILY WILL STAFF WILL BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH THAT NUMBER THAT WE CAN THEN DO A COMPARISON AGAINST FOR A GOAL FOR MI GOAL? MR. HOPKOS, NOW I'M, I'M SOMEWHAT AT A, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UNINTENTIONAL ERRORS AND IN SOME CASES DON'T COME TO LIGHT FOR YEARS AFTER THE ERROR WAS MADE. THAT IS TRUE. SO WHILE I CAN SEE A, A GOOD PURPOSE TO MEASURING HOW MANY CASES DID WE SEE THIS YEAR THAT RESULT, THAT WAS, CAME TO US BECAUSE OF A PERMITTING ERROR, JUST AS A, AS A NUMBER, AS A METRIC TO TRACK OVER TIME. I DON'T SEE ANY WAY YOU CAN POSSIBLY AFFECT A REDUCTION IN THAT SINCE THE ERRORS ARE UNINTENTIONAL TO START WITH. SO IT'S NOT ANYWHERE NEAR OUR PURVIEW TO MONITOR THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY MAKING THOSE ERRORS AND ISSUING THE PERMITS. SO WHILE I CAN SEE MEASURING JUST HOW MANY THERE ARE, I DON'T SEE HAVING A METRIC JUDGING REDUCTIONS TO BE, UH, TO BE OF ANY OF ANY VALUE TO OUR BOARD. OTHER DISCUSSION, MR. FINNEY? UM, UH, I AGREE WITH, UM, MR. KOVI SENTIMENTS. UM, I STILL THINK THAT IT, IT PROVIDES VALUE TO THE CITY AT LARGE TO UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH OF THAT IS RESULTING IN MORE CASE CASES FOR THIS BOARD. UM, I DON'T KNOW. I I JUST FEEL LIKE THERE, THERE IS SOME VALUE TO IT, UH, POTENTIALLY. UM, I HAD A UNRELATED QUESTION TO THAT. UM, BUT STILL ON THE SUBJECT OF THE, UH, WORKING RULES OF PROCEDURE EDITS. UM, [05:50:01] AND WE'RE GONNA GO TO THAT NEXT. OH, OKAY. WE'RE GONNA GO TO THAT NEXT. SORRY. OKAY. OKAY. UH, THE INTENTION, WELL LET BACK UP. THE CITY CODE SECTION EIGHT OF THE CITY CODE SAYS THAT BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS BY FEBRUARY 1ST WILL SUBMIT AN ANNUAL REPORT WITH ACCOMPLISHMENTS, GOALS, AND OBJECTIVES AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL AND ATTENDANCE AND THAT SORT OF THING. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE GENESIS OF THIS IS THAT REQUIREMENT BY FEBRUARY 1ST. UM, SO THE INTENTION IS TO BE ABLE TO GIVE A DOCUMENT THAT WE WILL UPLOAD TO OUR WEBSITE AND ALSO FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL SO THEY GET A SENTIMENT OF WHAT WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH AND WHAT THINGS WE WANT THE COUNCIL TO BE AWARE OF. CON UH, RECOMMENDATIONS WISE, UH, THIS DIDN'T HAVE A SPECIFIC NUMBER ON IT BECAUSE I'M REALISTIC IN THE OUTCOME. THE, THE REALITY IS THE COUNCIL MAY OR MAY NOT READ THIS OR MAY OR MAY NOT CARE ABOUT THIS PER SE. I WOULD LOVE TO PUT A NUMBER TO, IF WE CAN GET SOMETHING THAT WAS MEANINGFUL AND MEASURABLE, UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW REALISTIC THAT IS. UM, AND WHAT IT SAYS HERE IS OVERSIGHT. OVERSIGHT. AND THAT IS WE WANT SPECIFICALLY THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL TO REGULARLY CHECK IN WITH MS. LOU AND SAY, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH PERMITTING ISSUES. BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS SAYING THAT YOU'RE HAVING UNDUE FINANCIAL COST DELAY AND UNFAIRNESS TO ALL INVOLVED HOMEOWNERS, DEVELOPERS AND NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE INTENTION, UM, IS TO GET TO, TO REINFORCE. WE WANT THE COUNCIL'S ATTENTION. SO I OBVIOUSLY'S THE A UP TO THE WISH OF THE BOARD, WHETHER WE WANNA DEFER A NUMBER TO PUT TO THIS OR PURSUE WITH THE, THE PHILOSOPHICAL, HEY, CITY COUNCIL, WE NEED YOU TO BE AWARE OF THIS. YES, MR. GLOVER. DR. GLOVER, SORRY. UH, I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT TO USE THE STATISTICS AS A REFERENCE. LIKE, UM, MR. JOE CONNON SAID, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THESE ARE INTENTIONAL OR UNINTENTIONAL ERRORS, USING THEM AS A REFERENCE TO LAND AND REDUCE THE NUMBER OF CASES BECOMES IMPORTANT, NEGLECTING THEM ALTOGETHER, UM, PUTS US IN A POSITION WHERE WE ARE DENYING OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CORRECT THE ERRORS AND IT BECOMES A BIGGER PROBLEM DOWN THE LINE. YEAH. SO THE QUESTION WOULD BE, MR. POOL, AS THE SEMI ROLLS OVER YOU, AND MS. LIU, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH IN THE NEAR TERM SO THAT IF THE BOARD ADOPTS A, A STATEMENT AND THAT WE PUT A NUMBER TO IT WITH A PERCENTAGE THAT THAT COULD BE CALCULATED? IS THAT THE INTENT, MR. CANNON OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT? YES. AND AND FURTHER, JUST A NOTE ON THAT TOO. I AM, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT, UM, MY, MY PERSPECTIVE ON ALL OF OUR APPOINTMENTS IN THIS ROOM IS THAT OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS RESPECTIVELY VALUED OUR BACKGROUND, OUR EXPERTISE. MM-HMM, . AND IF WE'RE NOT GIVING MORE THAN JUST A SENTENCE, 'CAUSE TO ME THIS READS VERY VAGUE. SO I, THAT IS, THAT IS THE POINT THAT I'M MAKING. THAT IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HERE. BECAUSE IF WE'RE ABLE TO GIVE OUR COUNSELORS MORE INFORMATION WITH DATA, I BELIEVE THAT THEY WON'T JUST BE A GLOSS OVER DOCUMENT. THAT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S CON SERIOUSLY TAKEN. IF WE'RE VOLUNTEERING OUR TIME AND EFFORTS OVER THE NEXT YEAR, UM, TO REALLY HELP ENACT THIS, THEN I BELIEVE THAT THAT INFORMATION WOULD BE VALUABLE. IF NOT EVERY COUNCIL PERSON READS IT, THAT'S ON THEM. BUT AT LEAST THAT WE'RE GIVING THEM THE INFORMATION THAT THEY CAN DO TO ACT ON IT, WORK WITH OUR NEW DIRECTOR, IMPLEMENT THESE CHANGES. SO THAT'S MY POINT. DULY NOTED AND ACCEPT IT. AGREED. SO, MR. POOLE, CAN YOU GET BACK TO ME AS IT RELATES TO A NUMBER THAT WE CAN TRY TO PUT A DENOMINATOR AND A NUMERATOR TO GET TO A PERCENTAGE? YES, I WILL, UH, GET WITH EMILY. I CAN SAY WITH CONFIDENCE THAT WE COULD DO THIS AS IT RELATES TO THE BOARD, BUT AS A, AS A, AS A WHOLE AND COMMITMENT OF THE DEPARTMENT AS A WHOLE, I WOULD, I WOULD NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT THAT TO SEE HOW WE CAN PRACTICALLY DO THAT. MS. CAMPBELL, BEFORE YOU GO OFF, I MEAN, I, I THINK IT WOULD BE A USEFUL, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THIS BIG OF A STUDY OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL TO TAKE THE CASES WE'VE LOOKED AT AND FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF THOSE? WERE THEY INADVERTENT ERRORS? WAS IT SOMETHING THAT THE PERSON THAT SUBMITTED THE PERMIT DID? WHERE WHERE WAS THE BREAKDOWN? AND I MEAN, AND AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MANY CASES, SO I, AND NOT THAT MANY OF 'EM ARE PERMIT DRIVEN. SO HOW DO YOU GET THERE? UM, SO, BUT, BUT IF IT'S GONNA BE, IF, IF YOU WON'T FIND IT USEFUL, TRULY, THEN I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE DONE. BECAUSE [05:55:01] I MEAN, IT, WE CAN'T, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT IMPACTING THAT OURSELVES. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S UP TO YOU IN MY OPINION. THANK YOU, MS. GABO. MR. AGNES, MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I THINK I'VE, I'M HEARING THAT, UH, SOME OF THE MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO WEIGH IN ON THE RULES OF PROCEDURE BEFORE RECOMMENDING THEM. NOW I THINK PERFECTLY, PERFECTLY FINE. THIS IS, UH, MR. FINNEY'S MOTION. SO ON, ON THE OTHER HAND, REALITY IS WE ARE GOING TO RECOMMEND THE COUNCIL UPHOLD WHATEVER IT IS WE ALL DECIDE REGARDLESS. BUT I THINK, BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO IT IN ORDER, IT'S YOUR MOTION CURRENTLY, YOU COULD WITHDRAW IT. WE COULD TALK ABOUT THE RULES. WE COULD UP TO YOU AND I, YOU KNOW, I, I'M JUST REACTING TO COUPLE COMMENTS I NEED TO, DO I NEED, YES. DO I NEED TO WITHDRAW THE MOTION IN ORDER TO DISCUSS THE MOTION? YES. OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW. ALRIGHT, SO THE MOTION IS WITHDRAWN AND THE SECOND IS WITHDRAWN AS IT RELATES TO RECOMMENDATIONS. WE'LL COME BACK, COME BACK TO THAT. LET'S SWITCH GEARS TO, UH, CITY DELL'S BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WORKING RULES OF PROCEDURE. THE LAST TIME THE RULES WERE AMENDED WAS TWO YEARS AGO AFTER THEY, UH, AFTER THE BOARD ADOPTED THEM, THEY, I PRESENTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED THEM AND THEY WERE APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. UH, SO WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU AND WHAT WAS SENT TO YOU A WEEK AGO WAS THE WORKING DRAFT OF THE WORKING RULES OF PROCEDURE. THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. I DON'T KNOW WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE DOCUMENT NOW. IS IT YOU, THERESA, OR IS IT MATT? OR ONE OF, ONE OF YOU GUYS HAVE THE ACTUAL WORKING DOCUMENT THAT'S GOT THE RED LINES. AND SO WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU IS A COMBINATION OF, UH, PROPOSED CHANGES THAT WERE WORKED ON BY MYSELF AS CHAIRMAN, MS. UH, GABO AS VICE CHAIR. MR. AGNES IS VICE CHAIR, UH, THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND THE BOARD ATTORNEY. WE HAD TWO BOARD ATTORNEYS AND A LENGTHY DISCUSSION AND FOLLOW UP AS TO POTENTIAL SUGGESTIONS. UM, SO, UH, HOW, WHAT, HOW IS IT THAT YOU WANT ME TO GO THROUGH THIS? I CAN GO THROUGH IT AND WE CAN GO THROUGH THE RED LINES AND WE CAN HAVE QUESTIONS. IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S WHAT BE, IS THAT WHAT I'M, WE'RE GOING TO GO, YES, MR. NER. I, I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER IF, IF YOU JUST KIND OF, UH, GIVE US A SYNOPSIS OF THE MAIN, UH, CHANGES PROPOSED, UM, AND KIND OF ESHOO THE NOMENCLATURE. YEP. OKAY. CLERICAL STUFF, IF THAT'S OKAY. ALRIGHT, SO I'M GONNA DO WRAP. I'M GONNA DO RAPID SPEED. UM, ONE WE FOUND IN THE BEGINNING AND POWERS OF THE BOARD THAT IT HAD REFERENCED THAT THE BOARD ITSELF COULD MAKE APPEALS, UH, COULD MAKE, UH, ADJUDICATION DECISIONS ON REQUESTS. AND THAT'S AN ERROR. THE BOARD IS NOT BY THE CITY CODE ALLOWED TO MAKE DECISIONS ON VARIANCE OF SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND APPEALS OF BUILDING OFFICIALS. SO WE STRUCK THE TERM BOARD AND, AND JUST MADE IT IT SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE PANELS. 'CAUSE THE CODE SAYS THE PANELS AS DIVIDED BY THE CITY SECRETARY WILL MAKE. NEXT. WE PUT IN SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT, UM, CLARIFIED QUORUM. UH, THERE WAS IN SECTION THREE, UH, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION AS IT RELATES TO THE QUORUM. SO WE PUT THE WORD IN FULLY APPOINTED QUORUM, FULLY APPOINTED MEMBERS. SO FOR INSTANCE, WE HAVE 13 FULLY APPOINTED MEMBERS NOW, WHICH 75% OF THAT IS 10. SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS PUT IN. UM, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHO, WHO WITH WITHIN THE DUTIES OF THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, UH, WHETHER THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, UH, SHOULD BE INVOLVED AND BALANCED IN THE CASE AMONGST THE PANELS. UH, THE CONSENSUS WAS THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR SHOULD NOT THE, THE BOARD SECRETARY DOES THAT ALLOCATION OF CASES. UM, LET'S SEE HERE, FLIP THE PAGE. UM, WE, IN, IN INCONSISTENT WITH THAT, WE CHANGED THE, UH, LANGUAGE AS IT RELATES TO RANDOMLY INDEPENDENTLY ASSIGN AND REASSIGN CASES TO THE PANELS AND THE BALANCE OF THE WORKS OF THE PANELS EXCEPTIONS AND PROVIDED SECTION NUMBER 10 K AND 10 L. THAT'S A LATER POSITION LATER PROVISION IN THE, IN THE DOCUMENT THAT CREATES, UM, THAT CODIFIES THE LANGUAGE THAT WE HAD SAID BEFORE. I KNOW I'M JUMPING AROUND, BUT I'M TRYING TO KEEP IN SAME LOGIC. AND THAT SAID, ON THE TOP OF PAGE 12, IN EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, THE BOARD BY A MAJORITY VOTE, MAY CONSOLIDATE AND ASSIGN CASES AND APPEALS TO A SINGLE PANEL TO PROMOTE JUDICIAL EFFICIENCY, JUDICIAL EXPEDIENCY, FAIRNESS, THE EFFECT OF PARTIES AND ECONOMY OF CASE MANAGEMENT. AGAIN, WHAT THIS IS, IS AN OUT REACH FROM THE BOARD, SECRETARY'S AUTHORITY TO SIGN CASES EXCEPT IN THAT CATEGORY AND IN THE CATEGORY WHEN THERE WAS BOARD HISTORY. SO IF THERE WAS BOARD HISTORY IN A CASE, IT COMES BACK TO THE SAME PANEL AND WE'LL, WE'LL REPEAT OURSELVES IN THAT. THAT HAD TO DO WITH, UM, UH, OF BOARD ACTION EIGHT. UM, WE, WE CLARIFIED UNDER SECTION EIGHT, ALTERNATE [06:00:01] ALTERNATE MEMBERS. THERE WAS SOME, IT WAS UN IT WAS UNSTATED AS IT RELATES TO WHETHER ALTERNATE MEMBERS COULD SERVE IN A FULL BOARD MEETING. I INTERPRETED AS ALTERNATE MEMBERS CAN AT THE REQUEST OF THE CHAIR, WE PUT THE LANGUAGE IN THAT SAYS AND FULL BOARD MEETING. SO IT'S, THERE'S NO CONFUSION. UM, THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION AS IT RELATES TO, UH, THE ALTAR MEMBERS HAVING DIFFERENT TYPE OF REQUIREMENTS. THE ALTAR MEMBERS ARE SUBJECT TO THE SAME RULES AS EVERYONE ELSE FOR ATTENDANCE. YEP. AND FOR, FOR ATTENDANCE, WELL CORRECT BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE AT THE REQUEST. UH, THERE WAS DISCUSSION AS IT RELATES TO WHEN CAN AN APPLICANT REQUEST THAT A, A CASE THAT'S FILED WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OFFICE WITHDRAW A CASE BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN INSTANCES WHERE CASES HAS BEEN FILED AND ACCEPTED BY THE STAFF, AND THEN THE APPLICANT WANTS TO WITHDRAW THE CASE. AND WE, WE, WE PUT LANGUAGE IN, THIS IS AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 10. UNDER H, WE SAID THAT ONCE IT'S ADVERTISED IN THE PAPER OR THE, THE, THE, UH, 10 DAY NOTIFICATION OUT TO THE COMMUNITY OR THE SIGNS IN THE YARD, THE CASE CANNOT BE WITHDRAWN. IT HAS TO GO TO THE PANEL. AND THE, THE LOGIC WAS, IF WE'RE GONNA TELL MS. P*****K THERE'S A CASE COMING, WE CAN'T TURN AROUND AND WITHDRAW THE CASE AND NOT AND MISINFORM MS. P*****K. SO, OR TWO DAYS BEFORE, OR THREE DAYS BEFORE. SO IT'S UP TO THE PANEL ONCE THE CASE COME FORWARD TO DECIDE WHETHER TO HEAR THE CASE DENY OR PROVE OR POSTPONE. UM, LET'S SEE HERE. UH, ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 11, UNDER K, WE, AGAIN, WE SAID IF ANY APPLICATION COMES BEFORE THE BOARD OF THE SAME BUILDING SITE WITHIN THE PREVIOUS FIVE YEARS, IT MUST BE RETURNED TO THE PANEL TO WHICH IT WAS ORIGINALLY ASSIGNED. ORIGINALLY THE RULE WAS IF IT WAS FOR THE SAME REQUEST, FOR THE SAME LOCATION, FOR THE SAME, AND WE SAID NO, IF THERE'S ANY REQUEST, WHAT THIS IS SAYING, IF THERE'S ANY REQUEST SPECIFIC TO A LOCATION, IT HAS TO GO BACK TO THAT SAME PANEL WITHIN FIVE YEARS. THAT'S THE INTENTION. UH, I MENTIONED ON THE TOP OF PAGE 12, THE PROVISION OF AN EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES. THE BOARD BY MAJORITY VOTE, MAY CONSOLIDATE AND ASSIGN CASES AND APPEALS TO A SINGLE PANEL TO PROMOTE THE JUDICIAL EFFICIENCY, JU JUDICIAL, SPEEDY FAIRNESS, THE EFFECTIVE PARTIES AND ECONOMY OF CASE MANAGEMENT. UH, ON PAGE 13, IT TALKS ABOUT A PUBLIC HEARING FOR COMPLIANCE. THAT WAS AN ERROR IN THE, IN THE, IN THE WRITING OF THE, OF THE RULES TWO YEARS AGO IT WAS PUT IN THE WRONG PLACE. SO WE TOOK IT OUT OF THAT AND DROPPED IT INTO THE AREA WHERE IT SHOULD BE ON PAGE 14. SO THAT DIDN'T CHANGE AT ALL. IT JUST MOVED THE LOCATION. UH, WE CLARIFIED THE WHOLE ISSUE OF, UH, UNCONTESTED DOCKET. UM, WE ELIMINATED THE RULE AS IT RELATES TO EVIDENCE, THE TYPEWRITTEN EVIDENCE SAYING THAT YOU COULD ONLY HAVE, UH, A CERTAIN EVIDENCE BY EIGHT AND A HALF BY 11 AND 1212 INCH FONT OR LARGER. UM, LET'S SEE HERE, FLIP THE PAGE. AND THAT IS THIS, THAT IS THE GIST OF, UM, THAT'S MY ATTEMPT MR. NARY AT TRYING TO SUMMARIZE WHAT THE OFFICERS WITH THE BOARD ATTORNEY AND THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, UM, ARE PROPOSING TO THE BOARD TODAY. I HAVE A QUESTION. I'VE GOT MR. FINNEY, MR. SLADE, THEN MR. GLOVER. MR. FINNEY. UM, SO ON PAGE 2 0 1 OR PAGE NINE, UM, PAGE 2 0 1. OKAY. UM, IT SAYS THE ALTERNATE MEMBERS ARE SUBJECT TO THE SAME GENERAL RULES AS ALL OTHER BOARD MEMBERS. UH, HOW, HOW EXACTLY IS THAT CHANGING THINGS FROM THE WAY THEY HAVE BEEN? WELL, THE ONE, THE PROVISION BEFORE IT, MR. FINNEY, THE ALTERNATE MEMBERS ARE SUBJECT TO THE SAME ATTENDANCE AND GENERAL RULES AS ALL THEIR BOARD MEMBERS. UM, OH, IT IS, IT'S A REFERENCING ATTENDANCE. IS THAT IT, MR. MR. UH, THE NORMAL. SO YOU REMOVE THE WORD ATTENDANCE. YEAH. BUT, UH, QUOTE, REGULAR MEMBERS, UH, IF WE MISS, I THINK IT'S TWO ON A ROLLING 12, UH, WE CAN GET BOOTED. UH, ALTERNATES ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THAT RIGHT. BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT CALLED EVERY TIME. SO I THINK WE'RE REALLY JUST TRYING TO TAKE THE ATTENDANCE PART OUT OF IT AND ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ALTERNATES ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, HAVE OUTSIDE OF THE ATTENDANCE RULES HAVE, HAVE THE POWERS OF A MEMBER. I MEAN, ALTERNATES ARE A MEMBER THAT JUST DON'T SIT EVERY WEEK, EVERY MONTH. RIGHT. THAT WAS THE INTENT. OKAY, GREAT. DR. GLOVER? YEAH, MY QUESTION IS WITH REGARD TO, UM, WITHDRAWING, UH, THE APPLICATION. NOW THE QUESTION IS THIS IF, UH, PEOPLE ARE NOT DULY NOTIFIED, DOES THE UM, APPLICANT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PULL THE APPLICATION AND RECEIVE A FULL REFUND? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. WHAT IS THAT MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR? WHAT ARE THE RULES AS IT RELATES TO THAT? [06:05:01] WHAT OUR CONCERN WAS, DR. GLOVER, IS WE DON'T WANNA ACTIVATE THE COMMUNITY THAT THERE'S A CHANGE COMING AND THEN HAVE AN APPLICANT PULL AT THE LAST SECOND, AND THE COMMUNITY NOT KNOWING THAT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. THAT WAS OUR INTENTION. SO WE TRIED TO FIND WHAT IS THE SALE FAIL PHASE? IS IT SEVEN DAYS? IS IT 10 DAYS? IS IT THE DALLAS MOORE NEWS? WHEN IS, WHEN IS THE TIME THAT, THAT WE, WE CAN SAY IT'S OKAY TO WITHDRAW OR NOT MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR. SO YOUR QUESTION IS REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT WHEN THEY WITHDRAW, UM, DO THEY HAVE AN OPTION OF GETTING A FULL REFUND? SO THEY DO, THEY DO HAVE AN OPTION TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND, BUT I THINK A SMALL PERCENTAGE, UM, IS HELD BACK. SO IF THEY PAY $600, UM, FOR THEIR PARTICULAR CASE, I WANT TO SAY IT MAY BE A 10%, UM, FEE THAT'S TAKEN OFF OF THAT. UM, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I CAN GET THAT EXACT PERCENTAGE. BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THEY WILL GET SOME OF THEIR MONEY BACK. MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I COULD READ THE PROVISION AND THE CODE. YES, MS. BORDER ATTORNEY, UM, THE CODE SAYS THAT THE CITY COMPTROLLER SHALL REFUND 75% OF THE FILING FEE TO THE APPLICANT. IF THE APPLICANT WITHDRAWS THE APPLICATION PRIOR TO THE CASE BEING ADVERTISED FOR HEARING, AFTER THE CASE IS ADVERTISED, NO REFUND OF THE FILING FEE MAY BE MADE. AND THAT WAS, I THINK, THE DECISION POINT THAT WE TRIED TO LOOK AT. WHEN IS IT WE SHOULD DRAW IT AND WE USED, I'M GUESSING THAT'S IN THE END WHERE THE ATTORNEYS CAME UP WITH THE, WITH THE DATE. THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YES, MR. SLADE, I HAD THREE ITEMS AND SO I'LL TAKE THEM IN ORDER FROM THE FARTHEST BACK OF THE DOCUMENT UP IN SECTION 10 L UH, WHICH IS ON PAGE 2 0 4. WE MAKE REFERENCE TO BEING ABLE TO, IN EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, UM, TO CONSOLIDATE, WE USE THE TERM JUDICIAL EFFICIENCY AND JUDICIAL EXPEDIENCY. SINCE WE'RE ONLY QUASI-JUDICIAL, I WOULD PROPOSE THAT WE JUST STICK WITH EFFICIENCY AND EXPEDIENCY AND STRIKE THE WORDS JUDICIAL FROM THOSE TWO SPOTS IN CASE THERE ARE OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WOULD, UM, MAKE IT BE MORE EFFICIENT OR EXPEDIENT TO HANDLE IN A WAY THAT ISN'T JUST A MATTER OF HOW WE HEAR THE CASES. UM, HOLD, HOLD, HOLD THAT THOUGHT. MR. SAPP, WOULD YOU COME TO THE, TO THE PODIUM OVER HERE? I'M NOT GONNA THROW YOU UNDER THE BUS, BUT I WILL SEND YOU THERE. WHAT I'M ABOUT TO ASK MR. SAPP IS WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ORIGIN OF THAT, THOSE TWO PHRASES. I'M FINE WITH THAT, MR. SLADE. BUT THE ORIGIN OF THE PHRASE WAS JUST BECAUSE MS. QUASI JUDICIAL, IT WAS JUST LANGUAGE, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY, UM, LEGAL REASON THAT MR. SLADE'S SUGGESTION COULDN'T BE, UM, ACCOMPLISHED IF IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE BOARD. OKAY. UM, YEAH, I JUST WAS THINKING IF YOU STRIKE THAT WORD, YOU GIVE YOURSELF A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR PURPOSES AND, AND QUITE HONESTLY, I'D PREFER THE FLEXIBILITY TO GO BACK TO THE BOARD. YES. UM, THE PAGE BEFORE IN, UH, 10, I, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A TYPO, UM, AFTER THE WORD DIRECTOR BECAUSE IT SAYS FOUR TWO, AMEND ONE, ONE SECOND. LET ME GET TO 10 I NINE. 10 I, UM, IHI GO AHEAD AND SAY IT AGAIN, PLEASE. A REQUEST TO THE DIRECTOR. I THINK THE WORD FOR IS EXTRANEOUS. YES. WE, I WILL, WE WILL. STRIKE THAT. THAT'S A TYPO. YES. THANK YOU. UM, AND THEN THE ONE THAT'S POTENTIALLY GOING TO CAUSE SOME DISCUSSION, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, IS UP IN SECTION THREE ON PAGE 1 96. THIS PERTAINS TO QUORUM AND THE SPECIFICATION OF FOUR MEMBERS MINIMUM FOR A PANEL. AS I READ THE, THE WORKING RULES, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IT DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN MEMBERS AND ALTERNATES. AND SO MY THEORY IS THAT HOW WE'VE MADE THAT ADJUSTMENT FOR A MINIMUM FOR A PANEL WOULD SUGGEST WE MUCH HAVE FOUR FULL TIME MEMBERS FOR A QUORUM, REGARDLESS IF WE HAVE MULTIPLE ALTERNATES TO FILL THE OBLIGATIONS. TO GET TO THE REAL, LATER IN THAT PARAGRAPH, IT SAYS EITHER REGULAR OR ALTERNATE. AND I WAS CONCERNED WITH THE PARENTHETICAL THAT EITHER REGULAR OR ALTERNATE. DO WE WANT TO PUT REGULAR ALTERNATE IN THE PARENT INSIDE THE PARENTHESES THEN? NO. I COULD JUST BE WRONG IN MY CONCERN. THAT WOULD BE RIGHT. MR. SAP, DO YOU WANNA RESPOND TO THAT PLEASE? THE, LET'S, LET'S SPEAK TO THE INTENTION. THE INTENTION IS THAT, UH, THE CODE SAYS THAT [06:10:01] WE HAVE TO HAVE 75% OF A PANEL PRESENT TO HAVE A QUORUM. WE HAVE TO HAVE 75% TO MAKE A AFFIRMATIVE DECISION, AND 75% OF FIVE IS FOUR. AND WE CAN FILL THE FOUR OR THE FIVE WITH ALL ALTERNATES OR ALL MEMBERS, OR A COMBINATION THEREOF. SO WE COULD EVEN SAY THOSE WORDS. I JUST SAID, SO DO YOU, I CAN STAND DOWN. I WAS JUST DIDN'T QUITE APPRECIATE HOW THE EITHER REGULAR OR ALTERNATE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, UM, MODIFYING THE DIFFERENT SECTIONS. I THINK IT WORKS. YOU'RE FINE THEN. OKAY. MR. FINNEY, I FEEL LIKE THE CONFUSION COMES FROM THE WORD FULLY APPOINTED. SO WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE INTENT BEHIND THE WORD FULLY? WE DEBATED THAT VERY THING, MR. SAPP, I'M GONNA ASK MR. MOORE TO COME HELP ME BECAUSE HIS MEMORY IS, UH, A LITTLE BIT BETTER. ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT. IS MR. MOORE IN THE CHA OH, THERE IS MR. MOORE. WE DEBATED THAT VERY ISSUE OF WHAT FULLY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT MEAN. BUT THE INTENTION IS THAT AN ALTERNATE HAS THE EQUAL AUTHORITY AND VOTING POWER. AS A MEMBER ONCE ASKED TO SERVE MR. FINNEY, THE INTENT WAS JUST TO SAY THE FULL 15 BODY, NOT, UM, TO, TO GIVE THE EXAM. THE EXAMPLE OF 12 WAS TO SAY 12 APPLIES IF THERE ARE 15 APPOINTEES. IF THERE IS SOMETHING LESS THAN THAT, THAT 12 NUMBER MAY NOT BE ACCURATE DEPENDING ON THE MATH. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? NO. OKAY. SO IF THERE ARE 15, THE QUORUM WOULD BE 75% OF 15. BUT TODAY THERE ARE 13 APPOINTEES. SO THE MATH IS 75% OF 13. AND SO THE CONCERN WAS BY INSERTING THE NUMBER 12, IF THERE WERE ONLY 11 APPOINTEES AND WE'RE SAYING THE QUORUM IS 12, YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO MEET THAT WAY. BUT IF YOU DO 75% OF 11, SO THAT'S WHAT FULLY APPOINTED IS TRYING TO GET AT, IS THAT IT IS THAT 12 FIGURE APPLIES WHEN THERE ARE 15 BOARD MEMBERS. IF THERE IS SOMETHING LESS THAN THAT, YOU GOTTA MULTIPLY. OKAY. IS THAT HELPFUL? THAT IS HELPFUL. YEAH. I THINK ITS, I THINK IT'S STILL CONFUSING. IT IS CONFUSING. I AGREE. TALK, BECAUSE I THINK HAVING HEARD MR. MOORE TALK WHAT HE WAS REALLY TALKING ABOUT, AND HE'S TALKING FULLY APPOINTED, HE'S NOT DESCRIBING A MEMBER, HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE BOARD. WHEN YOU THINK OF A FULLY AS I READ, I'M LIKE, WELL, WHO'S A FULLY APPOINTED MEMBER AND WHO'S A HALF APPOINTED MEMBER? UH, SO I UNDERSTAND THAT. IS IT FULLY APPOINTED BOARD? I MEAN THAT'S, WHAT SHOULD THE WORD SAY BOARD INSTEAD OF MEMBERS THERE? YEAH. I MEAN, WE'RE DOING THIS WHOLE, THIS THING FOR CLARIFICATION. SO IT, SO GUYS, SHOULD IT, SHOULD IT SAY FULLY APPOINTED BOARD INSTEAD OF FULLY APPOINTED MEMBERS? LET'S GIVE THEM A MOMENT TO PONDER. THE INTENTION IS BOARD. I THINK SO. YEAH. I THINK THAT WOULD DO THE TRICK. OKAY. GREAT. MR. FINNEY, YOUR FRIENDLY AMENDMENT IS ACCEPTED. WE'RE GONNA SWITCH AND CHOOSE. PUT THE WORD BOARD INSERTED THERE. IS THAT WHAT YOU HAD REQUESTED? YES. DOES THAT CLARIFY THAT? YES. AND I HAVE ONE MORE THING. UM, PLEASE. ON MR. PENNY. ONE MOMENT. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I'M, I'M TRYING TO TAKE NOTES FOR THE, THE CHANGES. YOU'RE GONNA ADD THE WORD FULL AFTER APPOINTED, YOU'LL SAY FULLY APPOINTED BOARD MEMBERS. YES. NO. BOARD. BOARD. THANK YOU. OKAY, KEEP GOING. MR. FINNEY. UM, PAGE 1 99, NUM ITEM NUMBER 16 SAYS, REVIEW ALL FORMS AND INTAKE AND HANDLING PROCEDURES FOR BOARD APPLICATIONS FOR ACCURACY, EQUALITY INSTEAD OF EQUITY AND EFFICIENCY. WHAT IS, WHAT, HOW, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EQUALITY AND EQUITY? WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT TO CHANGE THAT? THAT IS EXACTLY THE QUESTION WE DISCUSSED AND WE THOUGHT WHATEVER'S BROADER. OKAY. WHATEVER'S BROADER. OKAY. GREAT. THANK YOU. WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS? THIS, THIS IS, ALRIGHT, SO LET ME GO BACK AND VERIFY TO CHANGES THAT WE'VE, UM, BY STRAW. WE'RE GONNA CHANGE QUORUM TO SAY BOARD AFTER THE WORD FULLY APPOINTED. THAT'S IN SECTION THREE UNDER QUORUM. WE'RE GONNA TAKE THE TYPO OUT IN THE WORD FOUR, WHICH IN SECTION 10 I THROUGH AFTER THE WORD DIRECTOR, TAKE THE WORD FOR OUT. OKAY. IN SECTION 10 L WE'RE GONNA TAKE THE WORD JUDICIAL OUT TWICE. [06:15:05] THAT'S WHAT I'VE RECORDED. IS THAT WHAT YOU GOT MR. SAB? YES SIR. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. DO I NEED TO, EXCUSE ME? DO WE NEED A MOTION TO ACCEPT THOSE? NO. WE, WE, YES YOU COULD. YOU, I WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT SUBJECT TO THOSE FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS. OKAY. UH, I MOVE THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SUB ADOPT, UH, RULES OF PROCEDURE DATED, WELL WE'RE GONNA DATE HIM TODAY 'CAUSE HE'LL CHANGE IT IN THE TABLE. SO IT'LL BE 10 29 24 DATED OCTOBER 29TH, 2024. SUBJECT TO THE, UH, FOUR FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN OFFERED. I ENTER FINNEY SECOND. THAT MOTION VICE CHAIRMAN AGNES HAS MOVED. MR. FINNEY HAS SECONDED THAT THE BOARD ADOPT THE CHANGES TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, RULES OF PROCEDURES AS PRESENTED, SUBJECT TO THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS THAT WERE MENTIONED HERE AND RECORDED DATE. AND THE NEW DATE OF THIS DOCUMENT WILL BE OCTOBER 29TH, 2024. UH, DISCUSSION IN THE MOTION. SEEING NO DISCUSSION. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES. 12 TO ZERO. THANK YOU. NOW WE'LL GO BACK TO THE PROPOSED RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL. THIS IS THE LAST ITEM FOR OUR AGENDA FOR TODAY. THANK YOU GENTLEMEN. MR. NO, MR. HOP, JUST A QUESTION ABOUT THE RECOMMENDATIONS. UH, DOES THE CITY COUNCIL NOT ALREADY HAVE THE OVERSIGHT? WE'RE SUGGESTING THAT THEY TAKE, UM, THE ORIGIN OF THESE THREE WAS TO SAY WE WANT, WE ARE ASKING THE CITY COUNCIL'S ATTENTION SPECIFIC TO THESE THINGS AS THEY RELATE TO SPECIFICALLY HOW IT'S IMPACTING THE ROLE OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. IT'S THE FOCUS. YES. IT'S PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT JUST MERGED WITH FROM DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND PLANNING URBAN DESIGN. PLEASE FOCUS ON MAKING SURE, RESPECTFULLY, MS. LI IN HER ROLE AS A DIRECTOR, IT'S, THESE PERMITTING ERRORS ARE CREATING UNFAIRNESS TO NEIGHBORHOODS, TO PROPERTY OWNERS, TO, TO, UH, UH, IT IT'S A RIPPLE EFFECT. THE COUNT, IT'S KIND OF A TON AT A TON OF IT, BUT WE'RE SAYING WE ASKING THEIR ATTENTION ON THIS AS IT RELATES TO HOW IT'S AFFECTED OUR ABILITY TO ACCOMPLISH OUR MISSION AS A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THE REALITY GUYS, AND WE'RE ON THE RECORD. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE WILL LOOK AT THESE, BUT IT'S A STATEMENT THAT WE'RE MAKING BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF OUR ANNUAL REPORT. SO THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, WHEN THIS GETS DELIVERED TO THE CITY COUNCIL, DOES IT NOT BECOME PART OF THE OFFICIAL CITY COUNCIL RECORD AS WELL? WELL, WHAT HAPPENS IS I'LL WRITE A COVER LETTER AND I WILL EMAIL IT TO EACH CITY COUNCIL MEMBER LAST TIME. I GOT TWO RESPONSES. UM, AND IT ALSO GO ON OUR WEBSITE AND IT'S PART OF, IT GOES TO THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE AND IT'S THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I'M SURE THERE'S A ANNUAL REPORT THAT'S GONE ON FROM WHATEVER TIME PERIOD. AND WE'VE FULFILLED OUR OBLIGATION. OUR OBLIGATION IS TO FILE A REPORT WITH THE CITY COUNCIL BY FEBRUARY 1ST OF EACH YEAR FOLLOWING THE PREVIOUS FISCAL YEAR. MS. P*****K, WOULD IT HELP IF WE SUBMITTED COPIES INDIVIDUALLY TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO APPOINTED US? BOY, MS. P*****K, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA EDUCATE THE COUNCIL. I'M GOING TO TRY. I LOVE IT AT ABSOLUTELY. IS ONCE THIS DONE AND I COVER MEMBER SIGN IT, I WOULD LOVE THAT. OKAY. UM, I JUST SENT IT INDIVIDUALLY TO 14 MEMBERS PLUS THE MAYOR AND GOT TWO RESPONSES AND I WAS GLAD THAT I GOT TWO RESPONSES AND, AND IT JUST, WELL, IT, THEY SAY PSYCHOLOGICALLY IT TAKES SEVEN TIMES TO REPEAT SOME THING . SO PERHAPS ALL OF US SHOULD SEND COPIES TO ALL OF THE CITY AND THEY WOULD GET 15 COPIES. I LOVE YOUR IDEA AND I'M GONNA TAKE YOU UP ON IT. SO I WILL MAKE SURE YOU GET ELECTRONIC COPY OF WHATEVER IS APPROVED IN OUR ANNUAL REPORT DEAL. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO PUT A NOTE TO YOUR COUNCIL MEMBER AND I WOULD LOVE THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF THEY GET 15 COPIES, THEY MIGHT PAY ATTENTION TO ONE. I AGREE. I LOVE YOUR IDEA. MAY, MAY WE ADD A, AN OFFICER TO THE BOARD THAT IS OUR SPECIAL EMISSARY . AND, AND I, I NOMINATE MS. P*****K AND YOU JUST GO TO TOWN . I LOVE YOUR IDEA. I HOPE EVERYONE ELSE SUBSCRIBES TO IT. BUT QUITE HONESTLY, EACH PERSON HAS A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR COUNCIL MEMBER, [06:20:01] YOU KNOW, AND I RESPECT THAT SEPARATELY. BUT I'D LOVE THAT IDEA AND I WILL GET THIS TO EACH PERSON. ALRIGHT, UH, WHAT OTHER, UM, SUGGESTIONS ARE THERE AS IT RELATES TO THE PROPOSED RECOMMENDATION? CITY COUNCIL? UM, I, I WOULD LOVE TO PUT A NUMBER, MR. CANNON, TO THE PERMITTING PROCESS AND SO FORTH, BUT I ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE THIS GETS DELIVERED AND EXECUTED WITH OUR DEADLINE AND, UH, 'CAUSE OUR DEADLINE'S FEBRUARY 1ST, WHICH MEANS WE HAVE TO ACT ON IT EITHER TODAY AS A GROUP OR IN PANEL HEARINGS SEPARATELY, WHICH WE COULD STILL DO IN NOVEMBER OR DECEMBER. AND JUST DO IT THREE SEPARATE WAYS. THREE TIMES. I WOULD JUST SAY IF, AND I ALSO AM IN THE SAME VEIN OF, UM, HAVING A MEETING WITH AT LEAST MY, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER ON HAVING THIS PIECE. AGAIN, HOPE ALL OF US HAVE THAT SAME RELATIONSHIP OR ABILITY TO DO THAT. IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE, THIS HAS TO BE ISSUED BY, UM, CITY ORDINANCE BY FEBRUARY OF 2025. FEBRUARY 1ST, YES, FEBRUARY 1ST. WE'RE SENDING WHAT, TWO MONTHS? THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE A IS CRUCIAL TO AT LEAST INFORMING OUR COUNCIL PEOPLE WHAT THESE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, HAVING THOSE FIGURES. BUT I DO HAVE TRUST IN OUR STAFF HERE THAT WITH ALL THE DATA THAT WAS PRESENTED TO US TODAY, THAT THAT BASELINE NUMBER CAN BE PRESENTED SO THAT WE CAN BE MORE INFORMED IN INFORMING OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS. SO IF WE HAVE TIME, IF THIS ISN'T LIKE IT'S DUE NEXT WEEK, WE'VE GOT THREE MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S AGAIN, I'M STICKING WITH MY POINT THAT I STATED EARLIER ON, BUT UNDERSTOOD. SO DO YOU WANT TO WAIT TO ADOPT THIS SECTION ON SPECIFIC TO THEN, OR CAN WE ADOPT IT SUBJECT TO A NUMBER BEING INSERTED BASED ON WHAT THEY, THEY SUGGEST? MS. GABO, DID YOU HAVE A OPINION ON THAT? A SECOND. WE SHOULD GET IT DONE. SAY PLEASE. CAN I MAKE A MOTION? YEAH, YOU CAN. ABSOLUTELY. I MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT, TO ADOPT THE PROPO, THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO CITY COUNCIL WITH A, UM, TO BE MADE TO PUT IN A DENOMINATOR INTO, UM, ITEM NUMBER TWO THAT HELPS US UNDERSTAND THE PERMITTING. A A MOTION'S BEEN MADE TO ADOPT THE, UH, AMENDMENTS, SUBJECT TO PUTTING A DENOMINATOR IN THAT, UM, UH, IS MORE SPECIFIC AS IT RELATES TO IMPROVES IN PERMIT PERMITTING PROCESS. BY WHICH TIME? WHAT'S THAT? BY WHICH TIME THE AMENDMENT. BY WHICH TIME WHEN IS THE DENOMINATOR IN BEFORE IT GOES FEBRUARY 1ST. BE BEFORE. YES. BEFORE FEBRUARY 1ST? YES. OH, YES. BEFORE WE'RE GONNA MAKE THE DEADLINE. NO QUESTION. BUT SHE'S SAYING WHAT THE, IS THERE A SECOND TO THE MOTION? I, ANDREW FINNEY SECOND. THE MOTION. MR. FINNEY SECOND THE MOTION. ALRIGHT, SO WHAT, WHAT IF THE BOARD ADOPTS THIS, I WILL BE VISITING WITH MR. POOL AND, OR, UH, MS. MAY TO, TO, TO GET SPECIFIC NUMBERS AS IT RELATES TO, UM, THE PERMITTING, PERMITTING ISSUES, PERMITTING PROCESS ERRORS AS IT RELATES TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND A AND SOME BASELINE FOR PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE CAN MEASURE IT. I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE AFTER. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO I WILL GET THAT INFORMATION AND I'M GONNA INSERT THAT AS OPPOSED TO HAVING IT COME BACK TO THE FULL BOARD. THAT'S WHAT I HEARD. MS. CAMPBELL'S RECOMMENDATION. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. OKAY. DISCUSSION. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MR. AGNES. SO IF I VOTE FOR THIS, WHAT I AM VOTING FOR IS ESSENTIALLY A NUMBER FOUR. NO, IN ADDITION TO NUMBER TWO, WE'RE PRETTY OKAY. WE'RE GONNA ADD IT TO WE WE'RE QUANTIFYING NUMBER TWO. OKAY. AND THE PROCESS IS, LIKE I SAID, YOU, YOU TALK WITH THE STAFF. THERE IS A NUMBER, THEN DOES IT COME TO THE PANELS TO APPROVE? NO. NO. HER MOTION, HER MOTION IS THAT WE, HER MOTION IS THAT WE INSERT THAT AS OPPOSED TO HAVING THE WHOLE PROJECT COMING BACK TO THE PANELS. WELL, WE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT HAVING AN EXACT NUMBER. LIKE WE CAN DO THAT TODAY. YES. 'CAUSE THAT'S DIRECTING STAFF WHAT TO INPUT INTO THE REPORT. YOU HAD A QUESTION. OKAY. I'VE GOT MR. KOVICH AND MR. CANNON. MR. KOVI, UH, I'M TRYING TO SEE IF I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY. THERE'S A METRIC INVOLVING PERMITTING ERRORS. THIS BOARD HAS NO IMPACT ON PERMITTING ERRORS. I DISAGREE. OUR, WE HAVE THE BULLY PULPIT WITH THE DIRECTOR IN FRONT OF US FOR TWO HOURS TODAY. IF I CAN FINISH, PLEASE. I'M SORRY. WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE PEOPLE WHO ISSUE THE PERMITS. THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T REPORT TO US IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. OUR, OUR BOARD [06:25:01] STAFF HAS NO DIRECT IMPACT ON THE PEOPLE WHO ISSUE THE BUILDING PERMITS. BUT WE'RE GOING TO ASSIGN SOME METRIC TO IMPROVE THE A PROCESS THAT WE HAVE NO DIRECT IMPACT ON IMPROVING. IS THAT A QUESTION OR IS THAT A STATEMENT? UH, I GUESS IT'S BOTH. OKAY. I BELIEVE IT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CANNOT HAVE, UH, ANY MEANINGFUL IMPACT ON AND TO, TO ADD IT TO OUR METRICS. I DON'T SEE THE POINT OF THAT. SO YEAH, IT IS A STATEMENT AND A QUESTION, UH, DULY RE DULY RECEIVED. UH, I GO BACK TO THE ORIGIN OF THESE STATEMENTS AND THAT IS PHILOSOPHICAL TO THE COUNCIL OF SAYING, THESE ARE, THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING TO DEAL WITH AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEIR ATTENTION TO SAY THIS IS PARAMOUNT. AND THAT'S WHY I ORIGINALLY WAS HESITANT TO PUT A METRIC OR NUMBER ON IT BECAUSE OF SOME OF YOUR CONCERNS. BUT I WILL FOLLOW THE WILL OF THE BOARD. UH, I JUST THINK IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THEY CAN COME UP WITH. BUT I STILL, PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S MORE PHILOSOPHICAL. IT'S SOMETHING FOR MYSELF TO SAY AND OR YOU AS A BOARD MEMBER TO SAY TO YOUR COUNCIL MEMBER, OH MY GOODNESS, WE'RE DEALING WITH REPETITIVE ISSUES OF PERMITTING ERRORS AND PROCESS AND THE COLLATERAL DAMAGE OF WHICH THEY ALL SHOULD KNOW 'CAUSE THEY'RE DEALING WITH, WITH THEIR CONSTITUENTS. SO I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I I WILL, I WILL BEND TO THE, TO THE WISH OF THE BOARD. SO IF I JUST ASK A FOLLOW UP QUESTION. SO THE WAY THAT THIS WAS BEING REWORDED, UM, COULD YOU JUST REVISIT WHETHER THIS IS THEN REQUIRES A NUMBER TO BE PUT IN THERE OR NOT? IT IS MY OPINION. IT SHOULD NOT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S SOME, AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, THERE ARE ISSUES AS TO WHETHER HOW MUCH WE CAN CONTROL. THESE ARE PHILOSOPHICAL STATEMENTS AS IT RELATES TO, WE WANT YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS. UM, THE APPROVE, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS AN ACTION STATEMENT. AND THAT'S CLEAR. EITHER THEY'RE GONNA APPROVE THESE OR NOT. AS IT RELATES TO THE OTHER, IT'S A BULLY PULPIT. IT'S SAYING TO THE, AND REALLY THIS IS THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, THE COUNCIL TO SAY, THIS IS A PROBLEM. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. I'M ASKING THE WAY THAT IT'S NOW BEING WORDED AND WITH THE INTENTION OF HAVING THIS EVALUATION DONE, IS DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY, WERE THEY WERE, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO COME UP WITH A METRICS TO GO IN THERE? OR CAN THEY COME BACK AND SAY, WE REALLY CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO ONE? I I, ONE MEMBER WOULD PREFER THE LATTER TO GIVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO FIND OUT IF WE CAN FIND SOMETHING MEANINGFUL. I, I, I'M QUESTIONABLE WHETHER WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO FIND SOMETHING MEANINGFUL. UH, I MAY, IT MAY BE A, A RABBIT CHASE. I DON'T KNOW. UM, SO MS. GA'S MOTION, SO MAYBE SHE SHOULD STATE, I'M HAPPY TO WITHDRAW MY MOTION AND APPROVE THEM AS THEY ARE. THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM WITH ME, FOR ME. SO IF I NEED TO WITHDRAW THE MOTION, DO I NEED TO WITHDRAW THE MOTION? NO, THAT'S UP. I, OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU JUST STATE WHAT YOU MEAN. MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY RESPOND TO YES, MR. OVITZ. SO EARLIER THIS MORNING THE QUESTION WAS ASKED, WHERE'S THE ACCOUNTABILITY? AND I THINK THAT THIS, THIS IS THE ANSWER, UH, AN ANSWER TO THAT, RIGHT? IT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM, BUT IT IS, UH, AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE ACCOUNTABILITY. I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE ON FACTS. I WANNA MAKE SURE, HOWEVER, IT'S A DEBATE WE CAN HAVE. AND QUITE HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN HAVE PRECISELY TO, TO THE POINT MR. HKA HAD SAID, ALL WE CAN DO IS INFLUENCE. WE CAN'T CONTROL. QUITE HONESTLY, GUYS, A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO IN OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE HAS EXTENDED WELL OVER THE LINE OF WHEN AN APPLICATION OCCURS. BECAUSE THE CITY COUNCIL HAS APPROVED OUR ABILITY TO BE INFLUENTIAL IN THE PROCESS. HAVING THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT HERE SAYS SHE CARES ABOUT WHAT WE THINK AS IT RELATES TO THIS WHOLE PROCESS. BUT IN THE END, THE CITY MANAGER RUNS THE SHOW AS IT RELATES TO THE PERMITTING PROCESS, THE, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF WHAT THE COUNCIL'S POLICY IS. SO, MR. CANNON, I WILL BE BRIEF BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE RUNNING PASTIME AT THIS POINT, UH, TO ADDRESS MY, UH, COLLEAGUE HERE. AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION. WHAT MY POINT OF DISCUSSION ON THIS IS THAT IF THIS IS GOING TO BE A RECOMMENDATION, THE WAY THAT IT READS RIGHT NOW, IT'S, IT'S VAGUE. REDUCE PERMITTING AREAS. WHAT IS THAT? THAT'S SO TO GIVE OUR COUNCIL PEOPLE WHO ARE READING THIS RECOMMENDATION THAT MAY OR MAY NOT TAKE ACTION ON IT, BUT FOR THOSE THAT ARE GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY, HEY, PERMITTING IS [06:30:01] A BIG ISSUE IN OUR CITY, AND THE FACT THAT 2025, WE'VE GOT AN ELECTION YEAR COMING UP. SO FROM THE BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, AND THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM WITH THIS PROPOSAL, IS THAT IF WE HAVE THE DATA THAT COME BACK TO SAY X AMOUNT OF PERCENT OF OUR CASES ARE COMING FROM PERMITTING AREAS, THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED. SO AT LEAST IT GIVES OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS AN INFORMED DATABASED WAY TO CARRY OUT THIS RECOMMENDATION. THAT'S, THAT'S, I, YEAH, I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THAT. BUT MY, MY OBJECTION IS TO US SAYING WE WANT TO HAVE A OBJECTIVE TO REDUCE THAT BY 10% OR SOMETHING. THAT'S WHERE MY OBJECTION IS. SINCE WE HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT PROCESS. MS. GABO, PART OF THE REASON I MADE THIS MOTION IS I HEARD MS. LOU THIS MORNING SAY THAT EVEN A SMALL CHANGE CAN AFFECT THINGS. AND FOR ME, I FEEL LIKE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS ONE LITTLE MICROCOSM OF A GIANT BIG COG OF A WHEEL IN THE CITY OF DALLAS. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT SOME REALLY GREAT STAFF PEOPLE AND IF THIS PUSHES THEM TO LOOK MORE INTO THE PERMITTING ISSUE, 'CAUSE I MEAN, AGAIN, 10 YEARS ON THE BOARD, I HAVE NEVER HEARD ONCE THAT, WELL ACTUALLY IT WAS THE APPLICANT'S FAULT OR THIS IS HOW IT HAPPENED. IF THEY CAN GO AND INVESTIGATE EVEN JUST THE LAST TWO YEARS OF THESE, AND BY PUTTING THIS ON HERE, EVEN IF IT DOESN'T FORCE CITY COUNCIL TO DO IT, I THINK THERE'S SOME REALLY SMART PEOPLE HERE THAT MIGHT TURN OVER A ROCK THAT WE HAVEN'T TURNED OVER BEFORE. I, I, I'M NOT OBJECTING TO THE, TO THE ANALYSIS. I'M OBJECTING TO US HAVING A OBJECTIVE TO REDUCE IT. SOME STATED PERCENTAGE. THAT'S WHAT I'M, IF, IF, IF THAT'S NOT PART OF WHAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE, THEN I'M FINE WITH IT. I IF, IF, IF WE'RE TRYING TO SET A STANDARD THAT WE'RE GONNA MEASURE AGAINST, LIKE, LIKE DAYS OF THE DAYS OF THAT, UH, AFTER THE APPLICATION HAS COME IN BEFORE THE HEARING, THAT'S SOMETHING OUR STAFF CONTROLS. WE HAVE SOME, SOME, UH, SAY OVER, IF WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO REDUCE PERMITTING ERRORS BY A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE AS AN OBJECTIVE, WE'RE GONNA SEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL. I DON'T SEE A POINT IN THAT SINCE WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO TO DO THAT, WE HAVE NO WAY TO DO THAT. I ACTUALLY NOW UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I, I'VE GOT MR. FINNEY AND THEN I'VE GOT MR. AGNES, MR. FINNEY. UM, I THINK THAT'S A REALLY FAIR POINT. AND I THINK THE REAL VALUE IS THE ANALYSIS. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HOLD 'EM ACCOUNTABLE. UM, AND SO I'M TOTALLY ON BOARD WITH THAT. SO I WANT THE ANALYSIS DONE. YES. SO WHAT'S ON THE MO ON WHAT'S ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW IS TO APPROVE THE RECOMMENDATIONS SUBJECT TO PUTTING A METRIC IN NUMBER TWO. THAT'S WHAT'S ON, THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. AND THAT METRIC WILL BE CA WILL BE HOPEFULLY IDENTIFIED, CALCULATED BY THE STAFF TO ME. AND THEN I'LL COMMUNICATE THAT BACK OUT TO THE BOARD. BUT THE BOARD IS EMPOWERING US TO INCLUDE THAT NUMBER, WHATEVER IT, WHATEVER IT COMES TO IN ORDER TO PUT IT A PRECISE NUMBER IN ANALYSIS AS YOU SPEAK TO, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT DR. GLOVER, THEN MS. DAVIS, DR. GLOVER. WELL, MY OPINION ON THIS IS THAT, UM, GOALS HAVE TO BE SMART AND MAKING GOALS SMART MEANS THAT WE PUT RESPONSIBILITY ON PEOPLE TO HAVE A REFERENCE. MEANING THAT WE HAVE, LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE, 10 CASES FOR 20, 23, 24 ERROR. UM, AND ALL THESE CASES HAVE BEEN BECAUSE MAYBE CITY STAFF HAVE GIVEN PERMITS AND ERROR AND OUR HANDS ARE TIED. WE HAVE TO LIKE, MAKE DECISIONS TO ALIGN WITH THE OTHER DECISION. HOW DO WE PUT THE RESPONSIBILITY ON CITY STAFF TO BE ABLE TO CORRECT THESE MISTAKES IN THE FOLLOWING YEAR WHERE LET'S SAY THEY ARE LEARNING FROM WHATEVER MISTAKES HAVE HAPPENED TO GIVE US A LESS, UM, NUMBER OF ERRORS. THERE SHOULD BE A MEASURABLE PART. AND, AND, AND THIS IS HOW I SEE IT, AND IT BECOMES CONSEQUENTIAL IF YOU'RE ABLE TO SEE THAT THE NUMBER OF ERRORS ARE REDUCING ACROSS, ACROSS THE YEARS. THANK YOU. I WANNA REMIND EVERYONE, THIS IS RECOMMENDATIONS CITY COUNCIL. THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDATION TO PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS THE CODE SAYS WE ARE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL. I'VE GOT MS. DAVIS. NEXT. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. POOLE. I, I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT, HOW MUCH TIME THIS IS GOING TO TAKE. I LOVE THE IDEA OF HAVING THOSE NUMBERS, BUT I ALSO DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE, HOW MANY STAFF MEMBERS IT WILL TAKE AND, AND WHEN YOU THINK THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK ON THIS. SO I THINK WITHIN RELATION TO STRICTLY THE BOARD CASES, WE COULD FIND THAT WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS IN RELATION TO THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT. I, I CAN'T GIVE A A TIMEFRAME FOR THAT. AGAIN, THAT WASN'T SOMETHING WE LOOKED AT OR TRACKED. UM, I I DON'T THINK THERE'S AS MANY AS, AS WE THINK THEY ARE. AND THEY ONLY COME UP WHENEVER WE, WE CATCH THEM. [06:35:01] SO IT, IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT TO PUT A, A TIMEFRAME ON THAT. SO I GUESS JUST A SUGGESTION, IF IT'S GOING TO BE TOO TIME CONSUMING, WE COULD START MEASURING NOW. WE COULD START MEASURING, MOVING FORWARD AS OPPOSED TO GOING BACK AND DIGGING UP ALL OF THAT DATA. BUT IT'S JUST, I I'M TRYING TO BALANCE THE TIME SPENT AND HOW VALUABLE THIS INFORMATION IS. I THINK IT'S NICE INFORMATION TO HAVE. I AGREE WE CAN'T CONTROL IT, BUT ANOTHER OPTION IS JUST TO START TRACKING IT MOVING FORWARD SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND DIG. IS IT TRACKABLE GOING FORWARD, MR. POOL? IT SHOULD BE EACH CASE THAT COMES IN THE PIPELINE. SO FROM A BOARD STANDPOINT, ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. IT'S, IT COMES DOWN THE PIPELINE. THERE'S AN ORIGIN OF THE CASE. RIGHT. OKAY, MS. GABO. SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T CARE IF THERE'S 10, 20, 30 PER, I MEAN, I, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE NUMBER. WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS DO WE UNDERSTAND WHY THE PERMIT WAS ISSUED IN ERROR? DO, DO WE I MEAN THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT. I MEAN IT, AND, AND AGAIN, JUST ON THESE CASES, DO WE UNDERSTAND WHY A PERMIT WAS ISSUED AN ERROR? AND IF YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND DO THAT, LET'S START DOING IT FORWARD. AND MAYBE IT DOESN'T BELONG ON THIS RECOMMENDATION, BUT, AND MAYBE YOU REALLY KNOW THAT AND YOU JUST DON'T EVER TELL US AND THEN I'M JUST BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. 'CAUSE IF YOU KNOW THAT, THEN I CAN, I'LL GO AWAY. NO, WE, WE TAKE EVERY ERROR VERY SERIOUSLY. WE INVESTIGATE ALL OF THEM. I HAVE FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF A GOOD PORTION OF THE, OF THE MOST RECENT ONES. BUT NO, WE, WE WANNA FIND IT. WE DON'T WANNA MAKE THE MISTAKE AGAIN. AND THAT IS A, I MEAN, SO I, AND I GUESS, I MEAN, DO WE, IS IS THERE ONE ROOT CAUSE I MEAN, ARE Y'ALL GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN SAY THIS IS THIS IS IT WAS, IS IT TYPICALLY USER ERROR? I MEAN, I GUESS I DON'T, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF THEM AND THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO DISCUSS THIS. I MEAN, THIS IS ANOTHER TOPIC FOR ANOTHER DAY, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT INFORMATION AND I GUESS IF IT'S, AND YOU'RE ALREADY DOING THAT WORK. SO I MEAN, I AM, MAYBE I AM RESPECTFULLY WITHDRAWING MY MOTION AND NOPE, I'M GETTING A LOT OF, LET'S, LET'S VOTE, LET'S VOTE ON THE, LET'S VOTE ON THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE FLOOR. THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR AS MADE BY MS. GABO AND SECONDED BY MR. FINNEY, IS THAT WE ADOPT THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL, UH, INCLUDING IN SECTION TWO TO INCLUDE A METRIC FOR REDUCTION. THAT'S THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? I WOULD, I I THINK IT, IT'S GREAT 'CAUSE IT HAS THE POTENTIAL FOR TEETH. I, I'M, I'M, I'M JUST WONDERING HOW MUCH WE CAN EFFECTUATE THAT. IT'S LIKE SAYING TO STAFF, WE WANNA REDUCE, UM, STAFF, WE WANNA REDUCE TIME BETWEEN APPLICATION AND HEARING THAT THEY CAN EFFECTUATE WE CAN CHANGE OUR MEETING TIMES AND I CAN, I CAN JAM MORE HEARINGS, MORE CASES INTO A MONTH. AND I DO THAT EVERY MONTH. GUYS, YOU DON'T KNOW IT, BUT I, WE HOLD THE DEADLINE AND WE SHOVE THREE MORE CASES IN AND THE STAFF ROLLS THEIR EYES AND SAYS, OH MY GOSH, HE WANTS THREE MORE IN. 'CAUSE I'M TRYING TO REDUCE THAT TIME. WE CAN DO THAT, BUT EFFECTIVELY WHAT WE CAN DO AND, AND WHAT I MEAN, THERE'S A LIMIT TO THAT. SO I WANNA MAKE SURE WE DON'T PROJECT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T EFFECT EFFECTUATE. SO I'M HESITANT TO SUPPORT IT PERSONALLY. I, I STILL BELIEVE THAT PHILOSOPHICALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE COUNCIL IS GUYS, THESE PERMITTING ERRORS ARE CREATING PROBLEMS IN NEIGHBORHOODS, PROPERTY OWNERS AND DEVELOPERS. AND IT'S A FINANCIAL COST AND IT'S ABOUT UNFAIRNESS. AND THEN WE HAVE TO ADJUDICATE AND GUESS WHAT? FAIRNESS IS NOT NECESSARILY IN THE CODE, BUT WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS AND THERE'S THE CONFLICT. SO, OKAY, THAT'S THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? I'M GONNA VOTE AGAINST IT, BUT LET'S VOTE. ALRIGHT. I'M GONNA BE VOTING AGAINST IT AS WELL. ALRIGHT. UH, WE'RE GONNA DO A QUICK, WE'RE GONNA DO A ROLL CALL VOTE. UM, THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS TO ADOPT THE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS WITH INCLUDING A METRIC. UM, MR. KOVI. NAY, MS. P*****K, MR. CANNON? AYE. MR. NARY NAY. MS. GABO? AYE. THE CHAIRMAN? OH, I'LL VOTE LAST. MR. AGNES NAY. MR. SLADE? AYE. MS. DAVIS? NO. MR. MR. FINNEY? AYE. MR. DR. GLOVER? AYE. THE CHAIRMAN? NO. WHAT WAS THE COUNT? ? I WASN'T KEEPING CARE OF THE COUNT FOUR. AYE. SIX. SIX. NO. FIVE. YES. THE MOTION FAILS. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I HAVE A MOTION MR. AGNES, MR. CARLISLE, IF I WOULD LIKE TO CALL OUT. OH MY GOD, DO I NEED TO DO THAT? NO. NO. [06:40:01] OKAY. IN THAT CASE, UH, I MOVE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, ADOPT THE, UH, PROPS RECOMMENDATIONS TO CITY COUNCIL. OCTOBER 29TH, 2024. UH, AS PRESENTED HEARING, IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. VICE CHAIRMAN AGNUS TO ADOPT THE RECOMMENDATION CITY COUNCIL. TURN YOUR MIC OFF, PLEASE. UH, ADOPT AS PROPOSED. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. WHO WAS THAT? MR. NARY. IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY MR. N DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. I WILL ATTEMPT AS YOUR CHAIRMAN TO TRY TO GET SOME DATA FROM THE STAFF TO GET AS MUCH TEETH AS POSSIBLE. UM, AND I LIKE MS. DAVIS' SUGGESTION OF SAYING, CAN WE DO THIS GOING FORWARD? SO WE HAVE A BASELINE, THIS MAY BE NEW BASELINE. THREE YEARS AGO THE BASELINE WAS DATE OF THE APPLICATION TO HEARING. THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE ANYMORE. IT'S UNDER CONTROL. SO WE WILL ATTEMPT TO GET MORE METRIC DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MR. CANNON. OH, MR. NARY. AND THEN MR. CANNON. MR. NI, I MEAN, I AGREE THAT WITH MR. CANNON'S, UH, ORIGINAL IDEA THAT IDEALLY IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO HAVE A METRIC, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY AT THIS POINT. I THINK, UH, AS YOU STATED, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO IN OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL IS GET THEIR ATTENTION AND FOCUS ON THIS PERMITTING ERROR ISSUE. UM, IDEALLY THERE WOULD BE NONE, NO ERRORS, BUT OF COURSE IN THE REAL WORLD, WE ALL KNOW THAT'S PROBABLY NOT POSSIBLE. BUT WE WANT TO GET THEIR ATTENTION AND FOCUS ON THIS. UM, BECAUSE IT, I MEAN, NOT ONLY IS IT EMBARRASSING FOR US, UM, AND, AND THE APPLICANTS AND THE, AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, IT OPENS UP THE CITY TO POTENTIAL LIABILITY IF THEY DO TAKE IT TO DISTRICT COURT AND STUFF. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. SO THAT'S THE REASON I'M SUPPORTING THE MOTION TO THANK YOU MR. NRI. YEP. MR. CANNON, I WOULD JUST SAY REGARDLESS OF HOW THIS VOTE GOES, UM, THAT THIS IS A VERY, IT'S A PLAGUING ISSUE FOR OUR CITY THAT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THAT IT DOES NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. AND I BELIEVE THAT ALL THE MINES AT THIS DEUS RIGHT NOW, UM, CAN HELP ACHIEVE THAT. SO WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, UM, I AM JUST GONNA TURN OFF MY MIC HERE AND LET THE VOTE HAPPEN. MR. ACTIN. UM, YEAH, I I I AGREE WITH YOU. I, I MADE, I VOTED AGAINST IT, NOT BECAUSE I, I DISAGREE WITH THE, WITH THE PRINCIPLE. I THINK IT, IT IS EMBARRASSING AND IT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS THAT, THAT OUR CITY, IT'S ONE OF THE MOST ESSENTIAL THINGS OUR CITY DOES. IT NEEDS TO DO IT WELL. UH, I I WAS CONVINCED BY MR. HOPKINS, I'M JUST NOT SURE THIS IS THE, THE, THE RIGHT PLACE TO PUT IT. AND I ALSO HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THE METRIC IS AND HOW WE'D ENFORCE IT. BUT I I ALSO THINK WE, WE DO CALL IT OUT IN, IN PART TWO. AND I WANNA MAKE SURE BEFORE WE, WE DEFINE OUR WAY INTO THIS METRIC THAT, THAT WE GET A METRIC THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE. I I THINK WE NEED TO TRACK IT. I THINK WE NEED TO, AND, AND YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE DOCUMENT, WHAT, WHAT ARE WE ASKING THE COUNSEL TO DO WITH SOMETHING THAT'S PROBABLY TWO STEPS OUT OF OUR INFLUENCE ZONE? BUT IT SURE AS HECK DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T YELL ABOUT IT AND WE SHOULD. THAT'S WHAT I THINK. THANK YOU MR. VICE CHAIRMAN. I CHOSE NOT TO PUT PD 67 IN THIS. WE COULD HAVE, BUT I THINK IT'S A BROADER ISSUE. ONE OF MY COMMENTS WITH THE DIRECTOR YESTERDAY WAS, DO WE HAVE THIS PROBLEM ELSEWHERE THAT WE JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT YET? AND THAT'S WHY I DID NOT SAY PD 67. 'CAUSE WE KNOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM THERE. THE QUESTION IS, DO WE HAVE A BROADER SYSTEMIC PROBLEM? I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T HAVE FACTS YET. I'M GUESSING OVER TIME WE'LL FIND OUT IN SHORT ORDER. BUT THAT'S WHY IT DOESN'T SPEAK TO A SPECIFIC AREA. IT'S THE CITY. MS. P*****K, UH, PERHAPS SINCE THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE, WE COULD PUT THIS UNDER ADVISEMENT, DO SOME MORE RESEARCH AND, UH, MAKE SOME OTHER CONSIDERATIONS AND PRESENT IT TO THE CITY COUNCIL SEPARATELY AS OPPOSED TO INCLUDING PERMITTING IN THE ANNUAL REPORT WHERE IT IS, I DON'T WANNA SAY BURIED, BUT IT'S INCLUDED WITH A LOT OF OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS. AND WE COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION IN THE FUTURE AND SUBMIT IT INDIVIDUALLY, NOT INDIVIDUALLY, BUT SEPARATELY TO THE CITY COUNCIL. RESPECTFULLY, I DISAGREE. I THINK IT SHOULD BE PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS. SO IT'S PART OF WHAT EACH MEMBER GOES TO THEIR COUNCIL MEMBER AND SAYING, THESE ARE OUR ISSUES. WE REALLY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. [06:45:01] I HAVE COMMITTED WITH THE STAFF TO COME UP WITH A TRACKING MECHANISM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE, BUT WE'RE GONNA GET THAT ON A GOING FORWARD BASIS. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE FINALITY AND INCLUDE THIS. SO THERE WILL BE A TRACKING MECHANISM IN THIS RECOMMENDATION. NO, NO. WE, WE, THE, THAT PREVIOUS MOTION FAILED. THANK YOU. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION, MR. FINNEY. UM, YEAH, SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE COULDN'T INCLUDE, UH, THE METRIC IN OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL GIVEN THAT EVERYONE WHO VOTED AGAINST IT AGREES THAT IT'S IMPORTANT. UM, AND I THINK THAT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT WORKING IN THE REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRY LIKE I DO, YOU UNDERESTIMATE THE DEGREE TO WHICH THIS HAS HUMILIATED OUR CITY AND THE DEGREE TO WHICH IT IS CAUSING DEVELOPERS TO QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GOING TO INVEST THEIR MONEY IN PROJECTS IN OUR CITY OVER SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS WHO ARE ALWAYS COMPETING FOR, UH, FOR BUSINESS WITH US. SO, UM, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK, UM, I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE. I THINK THAT INCLUDING THE METRIC IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL, UM, IT'S IT'S ONE MORE, ONE MORE BLIP ON THEIR RADAR. IT'S ONE MORE DATA POINT THAT THEY COME ACROSS. UM, AND THERE'S NO HARM IN THAT. AND IF WE'RE GONNA ASK THEM TO TRACK IT ANYWAYS, WE MIGHT AS WELL INCLUDE IT IN OUR RECOMMENDATION. THERE'S, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. SO THANK YOU MR. FINNEY. OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? DR. GLOVER? I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ALL NOTE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AND BE ABLE TO PAINT THE RIGHT PICTURE TO EXPRESS THE GRAVITY OF THE PROBLEM. THAT'S ONE. TWO, IN STATING THE PROBLEM, WHAT RECOURSE DO WE HAVE? WHAT STRATEGIES HAVE WE PUT IN PLACE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM? AND UNTIL WE STATE THAT AND HOLD CITY STAFF ALSO ACCOUNTABLE, WE ARE GOING TO SIT HERE EVERY DAY OR EVERY MONTH AND THERE'LL BE 10 CASES WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN ERRORS THAT SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T STILL WORK WITH A CT HAS MADE. HOW DO WE LEARN FROM THIS? SO I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO PUT SOME MATRICES IN PLACE TO SOLVE FOR THIS SO IT BECOMES SOMETHING WE ARE LEARNING FROM AND WE CAN SEE SOME PROGRESS ALONG THE LINE. THANK YOU DR. GLOVER. MS. DAVIS, I THINK YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO THE MICROPHONE. IT, IT'S JUST A COMMENT. UH, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION AND I SUPPORT THE CHAIRMAN WORKING WITH MR. POOLE TO START LOOKING AT THOSE METRICS SO THAT WE CAN DO SOME ANALYSIS MOVING FORWARD. I WANT THE METRICS, I JUST DON'T EXACTLY KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS IT RIGHT HERE AND I'D RATHER GET IT RIGHT AND, BUT I WANT IT DONE AND I WILL FOLLOW, I THINK EVERYONE HERE SHOULD, 'CAUSE WE ALL HAVE A VOICE WITH, WITH OUR MEMBERS. I DON'T MEAN TO DISMISS IT AT ALL. I AGREE. AND I WILL PLEDGE TO THE BOARD THAT IN THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO, IF WE CAN, IF I CAN WITH THE STAFF DEDUCE AND COME UP WITH A NUMBER THAT THAT CAN PUT TEETH INTO IT, I WILL CIRCULATE, CIRCULATE BACK TO THE BOARD. THIS IS WHAT WE FOUND. UH, BUT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO PUT SOMETHING ON THAT WE DON'T HAVE OUR HANDS ON. WE JUST DON'T. IF YOU NOTICED THE, THE DATA THAT CAME UP HERE BEFORE ABOUT OUR CASES THIS YEAR, THAT'S, WE HAVE OUR NUMBERS, WE HAVE OUR HANDS ON IF THE DAYS TO DAYS FROM APPLICATION TO HEARING, WE HAVE OUR HANDS ON, WE EFFECTUATED THAT. UH, I JUST, I I'M CAUTIOUS ABOUT US ADOPTING SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T EFFECTUATE. AND I, I, SO, BUT I, I WANT US TO PUT NUMBERS TO IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GET, I DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE A FIRM COMMITMENT THAT WE CAN GET THE NUMBER IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THAT. UM, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, MR. FINNEY, ABOUT THE IMPRESSION, AND I PROMISE YOU I CONVEYED THAT TO THE DIRECTOR YESTERDAY AND I'M GLAD SHE SHOWED UP TODAY, . UM, UH, AND, BUT I HAD TO BE, AND I TOLD HER IN ADVANCE THAT WHAT I WAS GONNA SPEAK TO THE LEVEL OF UNFAIRNESS THAT'S BEEN GOING ON AND SHE STILL WAS BRAVE ENOUGH TO COME AND FACE THE MUSIC TODAY. AND, UM, UH, THAT'S BEING PERSUASIVE. WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT. THAT'S PART OF THE, PART OF THE BALANCE HERE. SO ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS TO ADOPT AS PRESENTED. UM, I'M COMMUNICATING, I'M GONNA TRY TO FIND METRICS [06:50:01] THAT MAYBE WE COULD IF, IF NECESSARY, SUPPLEMENT IN ORDER TO GIVE IT FURTHER TEETH, BUT I CAN'T COMMIT TO THAT YET. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. OKAY. UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED? NAY. NAY. THAT WAS IS THREE WAS THAT NAME MR. FINNEY NAME? MR. CANNON. IS THAT IT ON THE NAYS? OKAY. UH, MISS, NO. SO WE HAVE 12 MEMBERS HERE. SO IT'S 10 TO TWO. THE RECOMMENDATION IS THAT 10 TO TWO, IS THAT CORRECT? YES. THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE APPROVED. 10 TO TWO. UM, 11. WE HAVE 11. OKAY. I APOLOGIZE. SO IT'S NINE TO TWO. WE HAVE 11 IN THE BUILDING RIGHT NOW. OKAY. NINE TO TWO APPROVED. AGAIN, I WILL COME BACK, I WILL WORK WITH THE STAFF TO TRY TO FIND THE METRIC THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING TO, MR. FINNEY, MR. DR. GLOVER, MR. CANNON. UM, AND IF WE'RE ABLE TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING THAT WITH THE CONSENTS THAT THE BOARD WILL DO, OTHERWISE THE BOARD IS ADOPTED AS PRESENTED. THIS OTHER DISCUSSION FOR TODAY'S MEETING, UM, IT IS, OH, BACK UP. ALRIGHT, SO WE ARE CLOSING OUT ON THE MONTH OF OCTOBER IN NOVEMBER. WE HAVE THREE PANEL HEARINGS, UH, IN DECEMBER. WE CURRENTLY HAVE TWO PANEL HEARINGS SCHEDULED. I WILL BE CALLING PANEL A TO ORDER THE THIRD, UH, SMILE PANEL, A UH, THE THIRD, UH, TUESDAY. 'CAUSE WE HAVE SEVERAL NEW APPEALS THAT HAVE COME CONSISTENT WITH THE BOARD'S DIRECTION ON PD 67. SO YOU'LL BE GETTING, UH, AN EMAIL FROM MYSELF AND OR OUR BOARD SECRETARY. UM, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE OUR TWO ALTERNATES HERE. AS YOU, AS YOU'VE SEEN, YOU'RE TREATED AS AN EQUAL AND YOU ALWAYS WILL BE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE EXPECT, PERIOD AT THE END. SO, UM, THIS, UM, ANNUAL REPORT WILL BE, WILL BE MEMOED AND THEN SENT TO CITY COUNCIL. AND PER MS. POLLOCK'S SUGGESTION, EACH MEMBER IS GONNA GET A VERSION AS WELL FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO WALK TO THEIR COUNCIL MEMBER. UM, AND WITH THAT, AT 4:43 PM ON THE 29TH OF OCTOBER, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS HEREBY ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.