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HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT HUD HUNDRED[*This meeting was joined in progress*]
[2. 25-771A Consideration of amending Chapters 51 and 51A of the Dallas City Code regarding off-street parking and loading requirements, including Sections 51A-1.102 and 51A-1.101, “Applicability and Purpose”; Section 51A-2.102 and 51-2.102, “Definitions”; Division 51A-4.110, “Residential Zoning Districts”; Division 51A-4.120, “Nonresidential Zoning Districts”; Division 51A-4.200 and 51-4.200, “Use Regulations”; Division 51A-4.300, “Off-Street Parking and Loading Regulations”; Division 51A-4.320, “Special Parking Regulations”; Division 51A-4.330, “Bicycle Parking Regulations”; Section 51A-4.505, “Conservation Districts”; Section 51A-4.702, “Planned Development (PD) District Regulations”; Division 51A-4.800 and 51-4.800, “Development Impact Review”; Section 51A-4.1106, “Development Regulations” and 51A-4.1107, “Design Standards”; Division 51A-13.300, “District Regulations”; Division 51A-13.400, “Parking Regulations”; Division 51A-13.700, “Administration”, and related sections regarding minimum off-street parking and loading requirements, including establishing a Transportation Demand Management Plan and off-street parking design standards. Staff Recommendation: Approval of staff’s recommended amendments. Zoning Ordinance Advisory Committee Recommendation: Approval of ZOAC’s recommended amendments. Planner: Michael T. Wade U/A From: December 5, 2024, January 16, 2025, and February 13, 2025. Council District: All DCA190-002(MTW)]
BLOCKS OF HAYNES AVENUE IN THE KID SPRINGS NEIGHBORHOOD.JUST TO REMIND EVERYONE, I, I APPRECIATE, UM, MY OTHER NEIGHBORS SHOWING UP TODAY.
UH, KID SPRINGS IS DIRECTLY NORTH OF BISHOP ARTS DISTRICT AND WE ARE A GREAT PARTNER WITH HOW, UH, RETAIL AND RESIDENTIAL COME TOGETHER.
UM, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR YOUR SUPPORT, UM, TODAY TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF OUR CONCERNS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM NEIGHBORS, UM, AND FOR YEARS, UM, BECAUSE THERE WAS ISSUES LIKE THIS THAT, UM, EXIST WITHIN GREENVILLE AVENUE AND THE OAK LAWN AREA.
SO WE WANT TO BE REALLY INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS WHEN YOU ALL ARE LOOKING TO DENSIFY MORE OF WHERE, UH, WE LIVE.
SO AS THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, I'M HERE TODAY TO SUBMIT COMMENTS ON BEHALF OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, AS A NEIGHBORHOOD, WE VOTED TO IMPOSE THE REDUCTION OF PARKING MINIMUMS, AND WE HAVE REQUEST THAT THE COMMITTEE REMOVE STREETCAR FROM THE HALF MILE RADIUS EXEMPTION TO AFFORD OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WITH THE SAME PARKING MINIMUMS AS EVERY OTHER RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
AS CITED BY CITY DATA FROM 2022, THE POPULATION DENSITY FOR KIDS SPRINGS WAS NOTED AT NEARLY 8,000 PEOPLE PER SQUARE MILE AS COMPARED TO DALLAS OVERALL WITH 3,800 UM, PEOPLE PER SQUARE MILE.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE, WE ARE ALREADY PARTNERS ON THIS DENSITY AS WE ARE TWO TIMES AS DENSE AS OTHER AREAS IN DALLAS.
AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HEARING FROM US ON THIS ISSUE 'CAUSE WE'RE HIGHLY IMPACTED BY THIS INITIATIVE.
AS YOU ARE TASKED WITH THE CURRENT CHOICES ON HOW TO SHAPE THIS ELIMINATION OF PARKING MINIMUMS THAT WOULD AFFECT 41% OF DALLAS, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD OF KID SPRINGS WOULD BE IN DIRECT IMPACT.
LET ME JUST EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WE DEAL WITH PRESENTLY WITH THE DENSITY THAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED FROM INCREASED CARS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD PRESENTLY WITHIN THE THREE BLOCKS AROUND US, WE'VE WITNESSED FIVE HIT AND RUNS LAST YEAR.
TWO OF THOSE INVOLVED DRIVERS UNDER THE INFLUENCE.
AND WITH THAT WE'VE HAD FIVE ACCOUNTS OF CAR BREAK-INS.
IN ANOTHER INSTANCE INVOLVING A PATRON FROM A BAR PULLING OUT A GUN AND SHOOTING OUT HIS GIRLFRIEND'S CAR WINDOWS OUT IN FRONT OF A NEIGHBOR'S HOME WHERE BULLETS ENTERED THEIR HOME.
AND THIS IS ONE OF TWO ACCOUNTS WHERE BULLETS HAVE GONE THROUGH OUR HOMES FROM PATRONS LEAVING BARS IN THE AREA.
WE ARE CURRENTLY FACING AN OUTNUMBERING OF RESTAURANTS AND BARS OVERTAKING SMALL RETAIL BOUTIQUE FAMILY FRIENDLY EXPERIENCES.
AND AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, ALL OF THIS GREATLY IMPACTS OUR SAFETY AND QUALITY OF LIFE.
AND WE COME TO YOU TODAY FOR THIS HELP.
WE NEED THIS PARTNERSHIP BY HONORING OUR REQUEST TO REMOVE STREETCAR FROM THE HALF MILE AFFORDS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WITH AVAILABLE PARKING MINIMUM PROTECTIONS TO SUPPORT THE ALREADY DENSE NEIGHBORHOOD WE HAVE, SO THAT WE HAVE SOMEWHERE TO PARK WHEN WE COME.
IS ABEL WETA NOT ONLINE? HOW ABOUT MR. COLORADO? ARE YOU ONLINE SIR? ALRIGHT.
CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME ALL RIGHT, MR. COLORADO? READY? GREAT COMMENT, SIR.
MY NAME IS HEEL, COLORADO 15 0 9 MAIN STREET DISTRICT 14 HERE, SPEAKING IN SUPPORT OF THE PARKING CODE AMENDMENT.
IF YOU SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT, IT'S VERY HARD TO HEAR YOU.
HOPEFULLY THERE'S APPARENTLY ONLY ONE SPEAKER WORKING IN THE ROOM TODAY.
SO YEAH, OUR SPEAKER'S ONLINE.
IF YOU MIGHT HAVE TO ALMOST YELL UNDER YOUR SPEAKER.
OKAY, I'LL TRY GETTING CLOSER.
MY NAME'S HEEL, COLORADO 15 0 9 MAIN STREET, UH, DALLAS DISTRICT 14.
AND I'M HERE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THE PARKING CODE AMENDMENT, SPECIFICALLY THE ELIMINATION OF PARKING MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS CITYWIDE.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS MEETING YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO CONSIDER A SWISS CHEESE APPROACH.
YOU'RE GONNA CONSIDER HOLES AND EXCEPTIONS WHERE YOU WANT TO KEEP PARKING MINIMUMS BECAUSE YOU NEED IT FOR THIS REASON OR THAT REASON.
BUT I WANNA MAKE THIS POINT THAT WHEN YOU HEAR ALL OF THESE ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHY YOU NEED PARKING MINIMUMS IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS, PLEASE RECOGNIZE THAT THESE ARE ALL REASONS THAT THE PARKING MINIMUMS WE HAVE TODAY HAVE ALREADY FAILED FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS THAT WE'VE HAD PARKING MINIMUMS. WHETHER IT'S REDUCED OR WHETHER IT'S STANDARD, THERE IS NO NEIGHBORHOOD THAT CAN SAY THANKS TO
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PARKING MINIMUMS. WE HAVE GUARANTEED THAT NO ONE PARKS IN FRONT OF OUR HOUSE THANKS TO PARKING MINIMUMS. WE HAVE GUARANTEED THAT NOBODY DRIVES TO A BAR AND NO ONE DRIVES HOME DRUNK.WE HAVE GUARANTEED THANKS TO PARKING MINIMUMS. PARKING MINIMUMS ARE AN EXPERIMENT THAT HAS FAILED.
AND SO WHEN, IF, IF ANY COMMISSIONER CAN RAISE THEIR HAND AND SAY, HEY, PARKING MINIMUMS HAVE WORKED, WE HAVE SEEN THE FRUITFUL, YOU KNOW, VALUE OF HAVING PARKING MINIMUMS OF ALL THESE MEETINGS.
ALL OF THESE EXCUSES ARE JUST REASONS THAT THE CURRENT PARKING MINIMUMS HAVE FAILED IN WAY THEY, WHERE THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED IS INDUCING DRIVING.
AT THE LAST COMMISSION HEARING WE HAD COMMISSIONER HERBERT SAY, IF HE KNOWS THAT THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY PARKING SOMEWHERE, HE WILL NOT GO PARKING MINIMUMS. DO NOT GUARANTEE THERE WILL BE ENOUGH PARKING.
IT, IT ONLY GUARANTEES THAT THERE WILL BE PARKING.
AND BY GUARANTEEING THAT THERE WILL BE PARKING, YOU GUARANTEE THAT PEOPLE DRIVE.
BUT MULTIPLE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION HAVE STATED THAT IF THEY KNOW THAT THERE'S NOT GONNA BE PARKING, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO, OR AT LEAST NOT GO BY CAR.
TWO WEEKS FROM THE SATURDAY, THE LOWER GREENVILLE NEIGHBORHOOD ARE GONNA PUT THOUSANDS OF NO PARKING SIGNS FOR THE BIGGEST EVENT OF THE YEAR.
NO ONE EVER COMPLAINS ABOUT THE NO PARKING SIGNS THAT GO UP BY THE THOUSANDS.
IF WE CAN DO THIS EVERY YEAR ON A CONSISTENT SCHEDULE WITHOUT FAIL, THEN WHY NOT DO IT EVERYWHERE FOR THE ENTIRE CITY? WE HAVE SO MANY ACCIDENTAL, UH, AND DELIBERATE STUDIES AND THE CITY AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ST.
PATRICK'S DAY, THAT'S STILL DAY EASTER IN NEW RELIC AND THE NEWELL AVENUE NEIGHBORHOOD HOLLYWOOD SANTA MONICA NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE ALREADY GET RID OF PARKING ALL THE TIME, AND EVERY TIME WE GET RID OF PARKING, WE DON'T GET CARMAGEDDON.
YOUR TIME IS THAT WE FRIEND THAT THEY WALK AND IT WORKS.
SO RECOGNIZE THE EXCUSE FOR WHAT THEY ARE.
UH, I THINK, UH, ABEL MULTA IS ONLINE NOW.
UM, ABEL MULTA OR ABTA, UH, FOUR THIRD DAY.
UM, WANNA JUST THANK YOU AGAIN, MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, UH, FOR, UH, PROVIDING ME THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.
AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE OF DALLAS.
I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF 24 HOUR DALLAS AND ALSO REPRESENT THE GREATER DALLAS CHAPTER OF THE TEXAS RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION.
AND I'M HERE TODAY TO SUPPORT MODERNIZING THE CITY OF DALLAS' APPROACH TO PARKING MANAGEMENT.
UH, WE RECENTLY, AS AN ORGANIZATION PUT OUT A SMALL UNSCIENTIFIC SURVEY TO RESTAURANT COFFEE SHOP AND BAR OWNERS TO UNDERSTAND THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH PARKING MANDATES.
ONE OF THE RESTAURANT OWNERS IN THE SURVEY, UH, HAD A PRETTY INTERESTING RESPONSE THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU ALL ABOUT, UH, THE DIFFICULTY THAT THIS ISSUE CAN PRESENT FOR SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.
UH, HE SAID, MY HOURS AND MY SEATING CAPACITY ARE LIMITED BY MY PARKING.
SO MY REVENUE CAN'T INCREASE YET MY RENT ALWAYS GOES UP.
THESE TWO FACTORS ARE ELIMINATING LOCAL, SMALL BUSINESSES FROM DALLAS RECENTLY VISIT DALLAS AND THE CITY OF DALLAS COMMISSIONED TOURISM ECONOMICS, AN OXFORD ECONOMICS COMPANY TO CONDUCT A COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS OF THE ECONOMIC AND FISCAL IMPACT ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE NIGHTLIFE ECONOMY IN DALLAS.
THEY FOUND THAT NIGHTLIFE CREATED $24.4 BILLION OF TOTAL ECONOMIC IMPACT IN 2023, SUPPORTING 256,000 JOBS AND GENERATED APPROXIMATELY $864 MILLION IN TOTAL STATE AND LOCAL TAX REVENUES.
THE BUSINESSES I REPRESENT ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE FABRIC OF OUR COMMUNITY, BUT PARKING MANDATES HAVE LIMITED THE OPTIONS FOR SMALL BUSINESSES TO GROW AND THRIVE.
DICTATING A ONE SIZE FITS ALL APPROACH TO HOW PEOPLE SHOULD LIVE, DINE, AND PLAY IN DALLAS KEEPS US FROM ENJOYING THE DINING AND ENTERTAINMENT OPTIONS WE WANT, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE REASONABLE POLICY SOLUTIONS TO DIRECTLY ADDRESS OUR PARKING ISSUES LIKE PARKING BENEFIT DISTRICTS AND OTHER PROVEN CURB MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES IN SUPPORT OF THE CURRENT AND FUTURE ENTREPRENEURS THAT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE DALLAS ECONOMY AND WANT THE CHANCE TO PROVIDE ALL OF US WITH DELICIOUS FOOD AND DRINKS AND A FUN NIGHT OUT OUT ON THE TOWN.
I'M HERE TODAY TO SUPPORT TWO OF THE PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION TODAY, THE GREATER DALLAS CHAPTER OF THE TEXAS RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION AND
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24 HOUR DALLAS ASKS THAT YOU SUPPORT REDUCING THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR RESTAURANTS TO ONE SPACE PER 200 SQUARE FEET OF ENCLOSED AREA AND ELIMINATING MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR RESTAURANTS UNDER 2,500 SQUARE FEET IN AREA.THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION OF THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES.
UM, HELLO CHAIR SHADI AND COMMISSIONERS.
UH, THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE OF DALLAS AND FOR YOUR TIME.
MY NAME IS JAY BLAZER CROSSLEY, AND I'M EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF A 5 0 1 C3 NONPROFIT FARM AND CITY.
UM, AND A MAJORITY OF OUR WORK IS LEADING VISION ZERO, TEXAS, THE MOVEMENT TO END TRAFFIC DEATHS, BUT WE ALSO WORK ON LEGALIZING HOUSING ABUNDANCE, IMPROVING REGIONAL PLANNING, AND INCREASING MODAL FREEDOM BY IMPROVING POLICY PUBLIC POLICIES.
UH, AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW, THE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL COMPLETELY ELIMINATED THE USE OF MINIMUM PARKING MANDATES.
UH, IN NOVEMBER, 2023, WE HOSTED THE AUSTIN PARKING REFORM COALITION THAT WORKED TOGETHER TO BRING ABOUT THOSE REFORMS. AND WE HOPE TO SHARE THE BEST PRACTICES AND LESSONS FROM AUSTIN'S EXPERIENCE TO HELP THE PEOPLE OF DALLAS.
BROADLY, I CAN REPORT AUSTIN IS DOING WELL WITHOUT ANY PARKING MANDATES AT ALL, THAT THE AMOUNT OF PARKING PROVIDED IN NEW PROJECTS HAS BEEN REDUCED BY ABOUT 20% COMPARED TO BEFORE THE REFORMS. WHILE THE AMOUNT PROVIDED IN PROJECTS FOCUSED ON AFFORDABLE INCOME, RESTRICTED HOUSING HAS BEEN REDUCED BY ABOUT 40%.
SO NEW PROJECTS IN AUSTIN ARE STILL PROVIDING PARKING JUST NOT AS MUCH ON AVERAGE.
AND DURING THAT TIME, AUSTIN'S RENTS HAVE GONE DOWN WHILE DALLAS RENTS CONTINUE RISING WITH DALLAS, NOW LESS AFFORDABLE THAN AUSTIN.
SO I URGE YOU TO END MINIMUM PARKING MANDATES AND ESPECIALLY THE DANGEROUS PRACTICE OF REQUIRING BARS TO PROVIDE DRUNK PARKING.
I BELIEVE A PRIMARY DETERMINANT OF THE HIGH RATES OF DRUNK DRIVING DEATHS IN TEXAS ARE OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODES.
OUR WORK AT THE INTERSECTIONS OF LAND USE AND TRANSPORTATION LED US TO START QUESTIONING THE DANGEROUS PRACTICE OF REQUIRING THAT ALCOHOL SERVING ESTABLISHMENTS PROVIDE FOR THEIR PATRONS TO DRIVE HOME DRUNK.
FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS, WE'VE CALLED FOR THE TOTAL ELIMINATION OF THIS DEADLY PRACTICE.
A DRAFT BILL IS READY TO BE FILED AT THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE TO BAN THE PRACTICE STATEWIDE.
ABOUT SIX MONTHS BEFORE THE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL ELIMINATED ALL PARKING MANDATES, THEY ACTUALLY CHOSE TO END DRUNK PARKING MANDATES.
FIRST MOTIVATED BY DESIRE TO ADDRESS DRUNK DRIVING.
ACCORDING TO THE TX CRASH REPORTING INFORMATION SYSTEM, 1080 PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN AN ALCOHOL RELATED CRASH LAST YEAR IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, ON AVERAGE, THREE PEOPLE EVERY DAY, 76 PEOPLE DIED IN THESE CRASHES.
ANOTHER 57 SUFFERED LIFE-CHANGING SERIOUS INJURIES.
THE TOTAL ESTIMATED ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THESE CRASHES WAS $178 MILLION.
AND IF YOU DO THE COMPREHENSIVE COST WHERE YOU ADD IN FUTURE YEARS OF LIFE LOSS AND PAIN AND SUFFERING, THE COST OF THESE CRASHES WAS A STAGGERING $1.2 BILLION OR ABOUT $3 MILLION A DAY.
SO THE PROBLEM OF DRUNK DRIVING IS CAUSING AT LEAST THAT MUCH DAMAGE IN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND PROPERTY IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.
ARE THE OTHER CONCERNS BEING EXPRESSED CLOSE TO AS BIG AS A PROBLEM AS THAT? AND ISN'T IT TIME TO CONSIDER PROVEN STRATEGIES THAT ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF THE FAILED POLICY OF PARKING MANDATES? SO I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR THOUGHTFULNESS ON THESE REALLY DIFFICULT AND IMPORTANT DECISIONS.
MY NAME IS ADAM MURPHY AND I LIVED AT 3 4 3 5 DICKSON AVENUE.
I CURRENTLY SERVE AS THE PRESIDENT OF THE OAKLAWN COMMITTEE.
OVER 40 YEARS AGO, COMMUNITY LEADERS RECOGNIZED THAT OAK LAWN'S UNIQUE CHARACTER REQUIRED A TAILORED APPROACH TO DEVELOPMENT, REDUCED PARK REDUCING PARKING MINIMUMS. A BOLD AND FORWARD-THINKING MOVE AT THE TIME BECAME A KEY PART OF THE OKLAHOMA PLAN LEADING TO THE CREATION OF THE PD 1 93 ORDINANCE.
WE APPRECIATE THAT PD 1 93 IS CURRENTLY PROPOSED TO BE EXCLUDED FROM THE CURRENT CODE AMENDMENT.
MAINTAINING OUR REVISED REDUCED PARKING AND LOADING REGULATIONS IS ESSENTIAL AS THESE BALANCE ACCESSIBILITY WITHIN THE DISTRICT, UM, I'M SORRY, THEY BALANCE ACCESSIBILITY WITH THE DISTINCT CHARACTER OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
THESE STANDARDS ENSURE FUNCTIONALITY FOR RESIDENTS, BUSINESSES, AND VISITORS ALIKE WHILE SUPPORTING GROWTH AND PRESERVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE THAT MAKES PD 1 93 SUCH A, A DESIRABLE PLACE TO LIVE AND WORK.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD ON THIS ITEM? OKAY.
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THANK YOU SIR.COMMISSIONER, ANY QUESTIONS FOR ANY OF OUR SPEAKERS? YES, COMM COMMISSIONER NIGHTINGALE.
I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME HEARING, SO I'M NOT SURE IF ABEL IS STILL ON THE LINE VIRTUALLY.
I HAD A QUICK QUESTION FOR A QUOTE THAT HE HAD SAID.
SORRY, I WAS KIND OF HARD OF HEARING.
UM, I BELIEVE YOU SAID FROM THAT SURVEY YOU GOT THAT ONE OF THE BUSINESSES SAID, MY HOURS AND MY CAPACITY ARE LIMITED BY PARKING, SO REVENUE CAN'T GO UP, BUT MY RENT KEEPS INCREASING.
WAS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
THAT WAS THE COMMENT THAT WE RECEIVED FROM ONE OF OUR BUSINESS OPERATOR, FROM OUR, UH, RESTAURANT OPERATORS.
I WAS WONDERING IF WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO INVITE MR. HETZEL BACK UP AND SEE IF HE HAD ANY MORE ANECDOTES ABOUT, UM, OPERATING PROPERTIES IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, PARTICULARLY BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
HAPPY TO, UM, ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR OR JUST KIND OF GENERAL? WELL, YOUR, YOUR HUDSON HOUSE EXAMPLE WAS REALLY ENLIGHTENING.
UM, TELL ME ABOUT, UH, YOUR TENANTS THAT OPERATE BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
WHAT, WHAT DO THEY NEED? WHAT ARE THEY TALKING TO YOU ABOUT? UM, WHAT, HOW DO OUR, UM, HOW DOES OUR ORDINANCE TODAY HELP THEM OR HURT THEM? YEAH.
UH, IT, I'LL TRY TO KEEP IT SOMEWHAT BRIEF AND FEEL FREE TO CUT ME OFF IF I GO A LITTLE TOO LONG.
SO IT, IT RUNS A WHOLE GAMBIT, RIGHT? SO I USE THE EXAMPLE OF HUDSON HOUSE AND IN THAT SHAME SHOPPING CENTER, UM, WE HAVE A LITTLE WINE BAR CALLED, UH, BODEGA.
AND WE NEED TO CONVERT THEIR CO FROM A RETAIL STORE TO A RESTAURANT BECAUSE THEY SERVE MEAT AND CHEESE BOARDS.
UM, APPARENTLY THAT'S ENOUGH TO QUALIFY AS A RESTAURANT, BUT AGAIN, WE CAN'T DO THAT 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE CODE PARKING FOR THEM TO DO THAT CO TRANSFER.
IT CREATES OTHER WEIRD ISSUES TOO, IN, IN TIGHTER NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE DEBU AND LOWER GREENVILLE, BECAUSE THERE'S DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IT MAKES IT REALLY HARD FOR CUSTOMERS TO FIND THEIR SPACES.
UM, AND I THINK A KEY COMPONENT OF LETTING THE MARKET DECIDE IS, YOU KNOW, LATER ON IN, IN YOUR MOTION THAT YOU DID IS THE PROVISION AROUND PAID PARKING.
SO I'LL USE DEEP EL AS AN EXAMPLE.
THE DEEP ELLUM ZONING, WHICH I WORKED ON WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS 12 YEARS AGO OR SO, ALREADY HAS A LOT OF THE PROVISIONS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN IT.
IT DOESN'T REQUIRE PARKING FOR RESTAURANTS UP TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET IN OLDER BUILDINGS OR RETAIL STORES UP TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, BARS, RESTAURANTS, IT'S AT 2,500 BECAUSE I'M PERSONALLY A BIG BELIEVER THAT THERE'S A VERY DIFF BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SMALL FORMAT RESTAURANT AND BAR AND ITS IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREA IN A LARGE FORMAT RESTAURANT BAR.
UM, YOU HAVE YOUR BASELINE BATHROOMS AND KITCHEN AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THERE'S JUST AN INTENSITY OF IMPACT.
UM, AND WE ALSO INCLUDE A PROVISION THAT ALLOWED PAID PARKING ON CODE PARKING.
FAST FORWARD 12 YEARS NOW WHAT YOU SEE IN DE BEUM IS I THINK WE HAVE TWO PUBLIC PAID PARKING GARAGES THAT WERE DEVELOPED BY THE PRIVATE SIDE OF OVER 500 SPACES.
THE NORTH CENTRAL TEXAS COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS RECENTLY DID A PARKING STUDY IN D BEUM, AND OUR MAX PARKING UTILIZATION FOR THE ENTIRE DISTRICT ON A SATURDAY NIGHT WAS 80 SOMETHING PERCENT.
AND SO, I KNOW THERE'S A PERCEPTION THAT PARKING IS HARD TO FIND A BE BEUM, BUT THE MARKET DOES CATCH UP OVER TIME.
UM, AND SO THAT, THAT HAS REALLY HELPED US IN, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL.
AND SO IT, IT, IT'S, IT GOES ALL OVER THE BOARD.
BUT, UM, UM, THAT'S A KEY PART OF IT FOR, FOR US AS WELL, IS GIVE THE MARKET THE, THE TOOLS TO RESPOND, UM, TO IT.
AND ONE OTHER ANECDOTE ACTUALLY IS, AND HOPEFULLY THEY'RE NOT UPSET WITH ME BRINGING THIS UP, IS, UH, WE BUILT AND OWN THE TRADER JOE'S ON LOWER GREENVILLE.
THE TENANT THAT WANTS ME TO INSTITUTE PAID PARKING THE MOST ON LOWER GREENVILLE IS TRADER JOE'S BECAUSE THEIR PARKING LOT IS THE MOST ABUSED.
AND SO, UNLESS I HAVE THE TOOLS TO DO PROFESSIONAL PARKING MANAGEMENT WITH CURRENT MODERN TECHNOLOGY WITH VALIDATION AND THINGS OF THAT SORT, I CAN'T KEEP TRADER JOE'S PARKING AVAILABLE FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS.
UM, AND SO IT'S, IT'S GOTTEN A LOT MORE SOPHISTICATED OVER THE LAST 10, 20 YEARS IN TERMS OF, OF WHAT'S AVAILABLE TO MANAGE IT ON THE GROUND.
DID, DID I HEAR YOU IN YOUR REMARKS, UH, REFERENCE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT YOU WOULD SUPPORT FOR AN EXEMPTION OF PARKING REQUIREMENT? I I HEARD 5,000.
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YEAH, I, THERE'S NO REAL MAGIC TO THAT NUMBER.I THINK THE SPIRIT OF RESTAURANTS AND BARS CAUSE THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREAS IS TRUE.
UM, AND, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION FOR SOME LEVEL OF MITIGATION.
I THINK HAVING, UM, SOME DIFFERENTIAL OF, UH, PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR RETAIL PERSONAL SERVICE AND OFFICE, WHICH HAS VERY LITTLE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON SURROUNDING AREAS AND RESTAURANTS AND BARS, MAKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SENSE.
PERSONALLY, I HAVE YET TO HEAR SOMEBODY COMPLAIN ABOUT A, UH, A WOMEN'S CLOTHING BOUTIQUE CAUSING MASSIVE OVERFLOW PARKING OR PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT A MEN'S BARBER SHOP CAUSING BIG, UH, OVERFLOW PARKING ISSUES.
A LOT OF IT ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE IS THE RESTAURANTS AND BARS.
AND AS I SAID BEFORE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TALKING A, A LARGE FORMAT NIGHTCLUB THAT'S 10 20 PLUS THOUSAND SQUARE FEETS, THAT IS JUST THE VERY DIFFERENT LIVED EXPERIENCE THAN, YOU KNOW, TEN TWO THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT OR 1500 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANTS THAT HAVE LESS PARKING, UH, RELATED TO IT.
UM, UH, BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING NEIGHBORHOOD RESTAURANTS, NEIGHBORHOOD BARS, BISTROS SANDWICH SHOPS, THINGS OF THAT SORT THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT IN THE REAL WORLD, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE UBER, AND WHEN PARKING'S TIGHT, YOU KNOW, THE, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO DO THIRD PARTY RIDE SHARE.
UM, AND YOU GOTTA LET THE CUSTOMERS CATCH UP WITH, WITH WHAT'S THERE AND LET MARKET DEMAND.
THANKS VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOU COMING DOWN.
BUT YOU WOULD AGREE THAT A COLLECTION OF BARS AND RESTAURANTS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR SIZE, EVEN IF THEY'RE SMALL, CAN HAVE AN ADVERSE IMPACT ON A NEIGHBORHOOD IF THINGS AREN'T MANAGED CORRECT.
UM, TO ME PERSONALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE CARS PARKED ON A PUBLIC STREET WHERE PARKING'S AVAILABLE IS NOT THAT BIG OF A NEGATIVE OF IMPACT.
PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO DISAGREE.
UM, AND BUT HAVING IT OVERFLOW FOR BLOCKS AND BLOCKS AND BLOCKS, YEAH, IT, IT CAN, AND THERE'S OTHER TOOLS AVAILABLE SUCH AS RPO, RESIDENT PARKING ONLY, WHICH I KNOW LAURA GREENVILLE HAS A LOT OF.
UM, AND THERE'S DISCUSSIONS THAT CAN BE HAD AROUND THAT ENFORCEMENT.
UM, SO IT'S NOT LIKE THERE AREN'T TOOLS IN THE TOOLBOX.
AND OUR POSITION ON LAURA GREENVILLE HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME, AND I KNOW YOU AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I HAVE, I'M PERFECTLY FINE WITH ALL OF THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STREETS AROUND LAURA GREENVILLE BEING CLOSED TO RPO.
AND IF WE CAN'T MEET OUR COMMERCIAL PARKING DEMAND ON OUR OWN PROPERTY, WE'LL FIGURE THAT OUT WITH OUR TENANTS.
UM, UH, SO SOME OF IT JUST COMES DOWN TO USING THE RIGHT TOOLS AND PROPERLY ENFORCING 'EM.
BUT YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THAT THERE ARE LANDLORDS THAT DON'T OPERATE AT THE SAME LEVEL THAT YOU DO.
RIGHT? THERE ARE VARYING DEGREES OF LANDLORDS THAT OPERATE AT DIFFERENT LEVELS AND HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CONSIDERATION.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL WHEN I TAKE THESE POSITIONS BECAUSE WE DON'T OWN A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE OPERATE IN.
WE DON'T OWN A HUNDRED PERCENT OF DEEP EL, WE DON'T OWN A HUNDRED PERCENT OF LOWER GREENVILLE.
WE HAVE PROPERTY ON OAK LAWN AVENUE, AND, YOU KNOW, VARIOUS OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY, TRADITIONAL SHOPPING CENTERS.
AND SO IF SOMEBODY WHO'S A ONE-OFF OWNER PUTS IN A RESTAURANT WITH NO PARKING, YEAH, THAT DOES HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON ME AND MY TENANTS.
THAT'S A TRADE OFF I'M WILLING TO ACCEPT.
'CAUSE EVERYTHING IN LIFE HAS A TRADE OFF.
AND I THINK THERE'S A GREATER GOOD TO BE HAD HERE RELATIVE TO THE NEGATIVE IMPACT OF IT.
AND THAT'S, AGAIN, WHERE PROPER MANAGEMENT REALLY COMES INTO PLAY.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY PROPER MANAGEMENT, FOR EXAMPLE? YOU KNOW, THERE IS, UH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GO TO THE CRESCENT TO GO TO ASCENSION COFFEE OR ANY PLACE LIKE THAT, OR WE'RE ACTUALLY ABOUT TO IMPLEMENT A SYSTEM OVER AN EXPOSITION PARK OUTSIDE THE FAIR PARK DART STATION.
PEOPLE USE OUR PARKING IN EXPOSITION PARK, UH, ALL THE TIME TO GO TO DALLAS SUMMER MUSICAL FESTIVAL EVENTS AND THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.
AND, YOU KNOW, OUR BUSINESSES DON'T LOVE IT.
IT IS PARKING THAT'S AVAILABLE.
AND SO WITH THINGS LIKE QR CODES, UH, AND SMARTPHONES, YOU CAN PARK IN LOTS IN OUR CA WHETHER IT'S LOWER GREENVILLE POSITION PARK.
AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO ONE, ONE OF OUR BUSINESSES, WE CAN COME UP WITH OUR OWN CUSTOM VALIDATION PROGRAM WITH OUR BUSINESSES, WITH THE PARKING FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS IS FREE OR SIGNIFICANTLY DISCOUNTED.
WHEREAS IF SOMEBODY'S UTILIZING OUR LOTS TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, THERE'S A PRICING MECHANISM IN PLACE THAT DERIVES REVENUE.
AND THAT REVENUE WOULD RESULT IN MORE PROFESSIONAL MANAGEMENT
[00:25:01]
OF THE LOTS BETTER MAINTAIN LOTS.AND IF THE REVENUE GETS HIGH ENOUGH, SUCH AS IT HAS IN DEEP EL BECAUSE OF OUR LOOSER PARKING RULES AND OUR ABILITY TO CHARGE FOR PARKING, SOMEBODY EVENTUALLY WILL BUILD A PARKING GARAGE AND THE ISSUE GETS SOLVED.
UM, AND SO THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THE REAL WORLD GETS A LITTLE MESSY SOMETIMES, BUT, UM, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT AN AERIAL OF LOWER GREENVILLE VERSUS DE BEUM, LOWER GREENVILLE, WHERE WE HAVE PRETTY CLOSE TO FULL PARKING REQUIREMENTS, THERE'S STILL A FEW DELTA CREDITS HANGING OUT THERE, BUT MOST OF 'EM HAVE GONE AWAY A LONG TIME AGO.
DEEP BEUM WHERE WE HAVE THE CUSTOM PARKING RULES, UM, THAT AERIAL WILL SHOW LOWER GREENVILLE.
I KNOW IT'S BEEN INCLUDED IN BRIEFING PACKETS IS ALMOST ALL THE OLD STRUCTURES EXCEPT THOSE DIRECTLY ON GREENVILLE HAVE BEEN WIPED OUT FOR SURFACE PARKING.
YOU LOOK AT AERIAL DEVELOP, MOST OF THE OLD BUILDINGS STILL EXISTS, WHICH IS WHY WE JUST GOT NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGNATION FOR THE ENTIRE DISTRICT.
UH, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE IF WE HAD NOT ALLEVIATED CODE PARKING IN THAT DISTRICT.
AND THEN, UH, COMMISSIONER SLEEPER COMMISSIONER.
I, I HEARD YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT PARK OF THE PARKING MINIMUM AND ALSO SETBACKS.
AND, UM, ARE YOU AWARE THAT, UM, AS YOU JUST STATED, CERTAIN, CERTAIN AREAS LIKE NORTH GREENVILLE HAVE LOST THEIR, THEIR, UM, SOME OF THEIR HISTORIC BUILDINGS, THAT THAT SAME THING HAS HAPPENED IN AREAS LIKE SOUTH DALLAS WHO HAS TO MEET THOSE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS, UM, AND HAVE LOST DELTA CRITICS DUE TO THE SAME REASON.
AND, AND IT WOULD BENEFIT AREAS LIKE SOUTH DALLAS THAT ARE NOT THE, THAT ARE THE NORM, THAT IF WE, UH, IF PARKING MINIMUMS ARE EITHER NOT REQUIRED OR THAT THEY GIVE SOME RELIEF IN THAT, THAT ASPECT YEAH, THAT, THAT'S A FANTASTIC POINT.
AND THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S SO CRITICAL THAT THERE'S A BROAD, EVEN IF SOME PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR RESTAURANTS AND BARS ARE MAIN, BECAUSE IT'S JUST TOO MUCH POTENTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACT, THAT'S FOR THIS BODY AND THE CITY COUNCIL TO DECIDE.
I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A BROAD SWATH OF USES THAT HAVE NO PARKING REQUIREMENT WHATSOEVER.
THAT'S WHY I USED THE EXAMPLE OF THE WOMEN'S BOUTIQUE, THE HAIR SALON, UH, USES SUCH AS THAT.
SO IF YOU HAVE AN OLDER VACANT BUILDING WITH NO PARKING, YOU AT LEAST HAVE SOME OPTIONS TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING YOU CAN DO WITH THAT BUILDING OTHER THAN JUST TEAR IT DOWN.
ARE YOU AWARE THAT ONE OF THE TOOLS THAT THE CITY IS CURRENTLY USING, IF THERE IS A, IF THERE'S A, SAY THERE'S A BUILDING THAT HAS MULTIPLE SUITES, UM, THAT THEY GET THE LANDLORD TO SIGN A A, A PRETTY MUCH A DOCUMENT SAYING THAT THEY WON'T, THEY WON'T RENT THE, THE REST OF THE SUITES OUT, UM, DUE TO PARKING MIDDLE? YES, I AM.
AND I'VE, UH, I'VE HAD SIMILAR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE CITY ON A NUMBER OF MY PROPERTIES, AND WE HAVE HAD TO KEEP BUILDINGS FALLOW FOR MULTIPLE DECADES BECAUSE WE COULD NOT GO PARK THEM.
UM, AND THEN ONE OTHER, UM, DO YOU BELIEVE, SO AREAS SUCH AS LOWER GREENVILLE AND, AND OAK LAWN, THOSE AREAS AND EVEN BISHOP PARK THAT HAVE A TIGHTER, UM, KIND MORE BUILDINGS, TIGHTER NET STREETS THAT THEY WOULD BENEFIT FROM INCLUDING THE PARKING MINIMUMS IN THEIR PD INSTEAD OF REVERTING BACK TO THE GENERAL CODE.
WHEREAS THE MAJORITY OF THE CITY CAN BENEFIT, ESPECIALLY IN SOUTHERN SECTOR, CAN BENEFIT PHARMACY RELEASE, SUCH AS WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT THE WINE.
WE HAVE THAT SAME ISSUE ABOUT THE WINE SHOP THAT NOW INSTEAD OF BEING ABLE TO CONVERT OVER TO JUST A FOOD AND BEVERAGE COFFEE STORE, UM, THEY'RE HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS OF A, OF A RESTAURANT WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN PROBABLY SEEK THAT MANY PEOPLE.
I, I, I, UH, IF I UNDERSTOOD THE QUESTION CORRECTLY, I, I COMPLETELY AGREE.
I MEAN, THIS IS A CITYWIDE ISSUE.
NOT EVERY AREA OF TOWN HAS SOPHISTICATED, CONSOLIDATED PROPERTY OWNERSHIP, WILLING TO PAY CONSULTANTS AND ATTORNEYS AND NEGOTIATE CUSTOM PARKING RULES THROUGH PDS AND GO THROUGH THAT YEARS LONG PROCESS TO GET IT RIGHT FOR THEIR AREA AND ACTIVATE THE BUILDINGS.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR CITY DOES NOT HAVE THAT CAPABILITY, NOR SHOULD THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE AREAS LIKE DEEP LUM BENEFITED FROM US DOING THAT A WHILE AGO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THIS OVERALL CITY AND THERE'S A LOT OF AREAS THAT COULD BENEFIT, BENEFIT FROM IT.
[00:30:01]
AND THAT'S IN LARGE PART WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, IN MY OPINION.SO HAVE YOU, UM, 'CAUSE TO ME IT SEEMS AS IF YOU, I'M NOT IN PERSON RIGHT NOW, BUT THINGS THAT YOU KIND OF HAVE, HAVE HAD SOME EXPERTISE IN HELPING ON SOME TYPE OF, OF, OF, OF PARKING REFORM.
HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO OR HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED THE OTHER AREAS IN SOUTHERN SECTOR THAT ARE, ARE PRETTY MUCH BEING CHOKED OUT BECAUSE OF THESE PARKING MINIMUMS? UM, AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS BE, IS NOT BEING ALLOWED TO, TO, UM, BLOOM BECAUSE OF SUCH PARKING, UH, REQUIREMENTS? I HAVE NOT ANALYZED IT SPECIFICALLY, BUT I WILL, I MEAN, IT, IT, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME AND I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE ZONING CODE.
I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE IT EXISTS ALL THROUGHOUT SOUTHERN DALLAS.
UH, THE ONE AREA IN SOUTHERN DALLAS THAT WE OPERATE IN, WHICH IS AGAIN, THE ACQUISITION PARK NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE OUTSIDE OF FAIR PARK, UM, THANKFULLY THAT AREA IS INCLUDED IN THE DEEP ELM ZONING THAT I REFERENCED BEFORE.
SO IT WAS ABLE TO BENEFIT AND DRAFT OFF OF ALL THE WORK WE DID ON OUR CUSTOM DEEP ELM ZONING.
UM, BUT YOU GET, YOU GET A LITTLE BIT SOUTH OF US, UH, SUCH AS ON MLK AND WHATNOT, AND YOU LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, WHAT'S HAPPENED THERE VERSUS THE EXPO PARK AREA.
IT'S A, IT'S DRIVE THROUGH RESTAURANTS AND BIG PARKING FIELDS, UH, YOU KNOW, AND THINGS OF THAT SORT AS OPPOSED TO THE OLD HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND MIX OF USES AND ART STUDIOS AND THINGS OF THAT SORT THAT WE HAVE AN EXPOSITION PARK 'CAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO FILL THOSE OLD BUILDINGS BECAUSE OF THE CUSTOM REDUCED PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
WELL, YOU'RE BRINGING UP MLK ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES, UM, IN SOUTH DALLAS IS THAT TYPE OF PARKING THAT EXISTS IN DEEP EXISTS IN MUCH OF THE OLDER DISTRICTS IN DALLAS, JEFFERSON, UM, SOME OF, OF DEEP L SOME OF BISHOP ARTS.
UM, WHAT WOULD YOUR PROPOSAL BE AS FAR AS NOT EVEN BEING ABLE TO INCLUDE THAT TYPE OF PARKING, WHICH THEY'RE CONSENTING ON STREET PARKING, WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THOSE TYPE OF DISTRICTS IN SOUTH DALLAS, ST.
MARTIN, LUTHER KING, MALCOLM X, SECOND AVENUE, THEY'RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO EVEN USE THOSE PARKING THAT THEIR PATRONS USE IN THEIR PARKING AGREEMENTS THAT PULL IN FRONT, FRONT FACING PARKING.
THAT, THAT EXIST IN MUCH OF OUR OLDER CITY, OLDER, UH, PORTIONS OF THE CITY THAT IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE PARKING AGREEMENTS.
UM, WHICH MOST DEFINITELY CUTS OUT THE AMOUNT OF, UH, MAKES THE, MAKES THE PROPERTY ONLY HAVE TO ADD MORE PARKING, UM, BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT REGULATION.
AND, AND I'M NOT SURE I COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD THE QUESTION, BUT I'LL ANSWER BASED ON WHAT I THINK IT WAS.
AND, AND IT, AND IT GOES ALSO TO MY COMMENTS RELATED TO, UM, WHEN YOU HAVE ONE USE AND ONE PARKING LOT FOR THAT USE, IT'S EXCLUSIVELY FOR THAT USE.
IT'S VERY INEFFICIENT USE OF PARKING.
VERY INEFFICIENT USE OF PARKING.
WHEREAS PARTICULARLY YOU HAVE A DISTRICT AND YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO VALIDATIONS AND CHARGING FOR PARKING, THEN YOU GET MUCH MORE FLEXIBLE USES.
RIGHT? AND SO YOU THINK OF THINGS LIKE A COFFEE SHOP WHOSE PRIME HOURS OR OPERATIONS ARE IN THE MORNING VERSUS A SANDWICH SHOP MIDDLE OF THE DAY VERSUS A, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD BISTRO WOULD BE AT DINNER VERSUS A WINE BAR A LITTLE BIT AFTER DINNER.
SHOULD ALL THOSE BE REQUIRED TO HAVE THEIR OWN SEPARATE PARKING LOTS? THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
SO I WAS, HOW ABOUT WE HAVE ONE PARKING LOT FOR ALL THOSE USES THAT DOESN'T MEET CURRENT CODE AND THE PARKING FLEXES UP AND DOWN.
AND IF YOU HAVE A PAID INVALIDATION MECHANISM, MAYBE SOMEBODY HAS FOUR USES IN THEIR BUILDING THAT ARE GENERALLY DONE BY THE EVENING AND THERE'S A PROPERTY OWNER NEXT DOOR THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PARKING AND DOES HAVE A BAR OR A RESTAURANT.
YOU CAN LET US CUSTOMERS USE THE SPACES AND THEY PAY AS THEY USE IT.
THE, THE WHOLE POINT OF, IN MY MIND OF ELIMINATING OR SEVERELY REDUCING AND KEEPING THE RULES SIMPLE ABOUT CO PARKING MINIMUMS IS TO LET THE MARKET FLEX AND ADAPT AND RESPOND TO THE REAL LIFE LIVED EXPERIENCE FOR EVERY MICROCOSM EXAMPLE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
'CAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO PREDICT EXACTLY HOW EVERYTHING'S GONNA WORK OUT.
I MEAN, WHAT IS IT THE FAMOUS, UH, EISENHOWER QUOTE, NO PLAN, SURVIVE, FIRST CONTACT, UH, BEFORE HE SAID D-DAY.
YOU KNOW? SO IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE EVERY SITUATION'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT.
UM, SO BAKING IN THE FLEXIBILITY TO, UH, DEAL WITH THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS, I THINK IS, IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF, OF NOT HAVING TOO MUCH PARKING.
UM, BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, WE DON'T DO A LOT DOWNTOWN.
I MEAN, THE MARKET WILL ADD PARKING DOWNTOWN DOESN'T HAVE A PARKING REQUIREMENT.
IF YOU DRIVE AROUND DOWNTOWN, THERE'S A LOT OF PARKING.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MY 2 CENTS ON IT.
COMMISSIONER SLEEPER, FOLLOWED BY COMMISSIONER HAMPTON.
[00:35:01]
THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR, UH, EXPERIENCE WITH US.I'M, I'M CURIOUS, UM, IT, AT LEAST ONE OF THE PROPOSALS THAT'S BEEN FLOATED AROUND HAS, UM, RETAIL PARKING REDUCED TO ZERO AND RESTAURANT PARKING REDUCED TO ONE PER 200 SQUARE FEET.
IF THAT WERE THE CASE, YOUR SITUATION AT GREENVILLE AVENUE, WOULD THAT SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM THERE? YEAH, I MEAN, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THAT'S, I'M NOT GONNA PUT IN A RESTAURANT WITH NO PARKING AND, AND I DON'T THINK IT MAKES SENSE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO NECESSARILY EITHER.
AND SO THAT, THAT WOULD ALLOW, IN MY OPINION, ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY TO RESPOND BASED ON ACTUAL MARKET DEMAND.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, MR. HUTZEL.
UM, JUST TWO QUICK FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS.
REALLY FOCUSING ON DEEP BALANCE, BUT I THINK AS WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE OUR OPPORTUNITIES ARE THINKING, UM, FOR OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY, IS IT CORRECT THAT THE REDUCTION IN THE, UM, PARKING FOR THE, WELL, THE EXEMPTIONS FOR WHETHER IT'S 2,500, WHATEVER THE NUMBER MAY BE, ARE THOSE TIED TO LEGACY BUILDINGS AGAIN, TRYING TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORIC BUILDING STOCK? YEAH, WELL, IT, IT'S DEEP EL WAS CRAFTED.
THE DEEP ELM ZONING WAS CRAFTED PRIOR TO THE ADVENT OF RIDESHARE AND VARIOUS OTHER TECHNOLOGIES THAT HAVE COME INTO PLACE SINCE THEN.
AND WE'RE ALSO STARING DOWN AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES ALREADY STARTING TO HIT THE ROADS.
BUT BACK WHEN WE DID IT, YES, THAT WAS A PRIMARY MOTIVATION, UH, WAS THE PRESERVATION OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS, UM, AND THE ACTIVATING OF THE BUILDINGS.
BUT IT WAS ALSO JUST A GENERAL NEW URBANISM ETHOS OF THE DISTRICT.
WE, WE DID IT, WE DID, UH, INCLUDE PARKING AND REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT EVEN THEN, AND AGAIN, THIS WAS BEFORE AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES AND EVERYTHING ELSE, UM, WE REDUCED THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR MULTI-FAMILY TO ONE PER UNIT INSTEAD OF ONE PER BEDROOM, YOU KNOW? SO, UM, EVEN ON NEW CONSTRUCTION WE DID, WE DID PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF, OF RELIEF AS WELL.
AND, AND I THINK EVEN IN CONVERSIONS FOR MULTIFAMILY, IT WAS EVEN FURTHER REDUCED AGAIN.
IS IT, UM, ALSO CORRECT THAT ON THE MORE INTENSE USES COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT BAR, LOUNGE, TAVERN, THOSE ARE ACTUALLY SUBJECT TO SUP.
SO WHILE THERE MAY BE REDUCTIONS ALLOWED, THEY GET A CLOSER REVIEW JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN ADDRESS ADJACENCIES AND OVERALL IMPACTS.
IS IS THAT CORRECT? A HUNDRED PERCENT.
AND I THINK THAT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, UH, AT LEAST AS IT RELATES TO DEBELL.
UM, AND IN THAT SAME VEIN, THE, WE PURPOSEFULLY, UH, IN THE CASE OF DEBELL 12 YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, THINGS CHANGE, BUT WE, UM, WE GAVE THE CARVE OUT FOR RESTAURANTS, RETAIL STORES, AND PERSONAL SERVICE UP TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET, WHEREAS OUR CARVE OUT FOR BARS AND COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT WAS ONLY 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
SO AGAIN, RECOGNIZING THAT THERE'S MORE INTENSE USES, THAT IT MAY BE MORE APPROPRIATE.
I I DON'T THINK YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH IT, BUT, UM, DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL IF, UM, WHEN THE CEDARS, AGAIN, ANOTHER ONE OF OUR EVOLVING AREAS, YOU KNOW, USED A LOT OF THE TOOLS FROM DEEP EUM, A MORE RECENT EXAMPLE, BUT DID START INTEGRATING RIDESHARE, SHARED PARKING, UM, DARK PROXIMITY.
UM, ARE THERE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ENSURING THAT THERE'S ADEQUATE CONNECTIONS TO THOSE SERVICES AS AS WELL? HAVE YOU BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS? SO AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE THE REDUCTION RELATED TO ANY OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT TYPES OF MODES THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIONS, THERE'S CONSIDERATIONS ON HOW YOU ACTUALLY WOULD ACCESS THOSE AS REDEVELOPMENT OCCURS.
UH, WELL, NOTHING IN THE ZONING OTHER THAN A GENERAL, AT LEAST IN CASE OF DEBELL, YOU CAN GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR A 25% REDUCTION IF YOU'RE WITHIN WHATEVER DISTANCE FROM A A DART STATION.
THOUGH I WILL SAY AS A DISTRICT, THAT'S SOMETHING WE WORK, UH, WITH THE CITY AND, YOU KNOW, THE PIT THAT I'VE BEEN LONG-TERM PRESIDENT OF IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CROSSWALK ENHANCEMENTS AND MAKING SURE WE HAVE PROPER SIDEWALKS AND, AND THINGS OF THAT SORT TOWARDS THE DART STATIONS, UH, THAT WE HAVE IN DISTRICT.
THANK YOU, MR. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER CHERNO, YOU HAD MADE A, EXCUSE ME.
UH, YOU HAD MADE A COMMENT EARLIER, UH, WITH REMARK REMARKS REGARDING DE ELEM WHERE THE MARKET NEEDS TO CATCH UP.
AND, AND I, I TOOK THAT TO MEAN AS PATRONS LEARN THEIR PARKING OPTIONS, THEY ADAPT THEIR TRANSPORTATION CHOICE.
DID, CAN YOU EXPAND ON, WHAT AM I INTERPRETING THAT CORRECT ABOUT YOUR TERM? CORRECTLY? A PART OF IT.
A PART OF IT, RIGHT? SO WHEN YOU MAKE, WE ALL KNOW THE PHRASE, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS FREE PARKING.
WE ALL BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS LONG ENOUGH, RIGHT? AND SO WHEN YOU MAKE A, UH, PARKING A COST TO THE CUSTOMER, THEN THE CUSTOMER'S DECISION MAKING CHANGES OVER TIME.
[00:40:01]
CUSTOMER MIGHT, LET'S SAY YOU'RE GOING OUT FOR A NIGHT IN DEPOT AND A LOWER GREEN BULL, AND IT COSTS 20, $30 TO PARK, WHEREAS AN UBER COSTS $10 EACH WAY, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE THE SMART CHOICE AND TAKE THE UBER, AVOID A POTENTIAL DUI AND THEN NOT SUCK UP A PARKING SPACE AS AN EXAMPLE.YOU KNOW, KIND OF TO YOUR POINT.
SO THE, THE CUSTOMER TRAFFIC PATTERNS DO CHANGE OVER TIME BASED ON THE LIVED EXPERIENCE.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, IF YOU CREATE ENOUGH PARKING DEMAND AND ENOUGH REVENUE OVER TIME, THE, THE, THE MEDIUM OVER TIME IS SOMEBODY WILL INCLUDE A PARKING GARAGE IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT THAT'S OPEN TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE THE REVENUE JUSTIFIES THE COST TO BUILD IT.
THE STACK IS A GREAT EXAMPLE IN DEEP ELLUM, THAT'S THE HEINZ DEVELOPED OFFICE TOWER.
ON COMMERCE STREETS, MORE THAN HALF OF THE BUILDING IS A PUBLIC PARKING GARAGE THAT'S PAID.
I MEAN, THE OFFICE USERS USE IT DURING THE DAY, BUT IT SITS EMPTY MOSTLY DURING THE DAY ANYWAY.
AND THAT WAS A MASSIVE PART OF THEIR UNDERWRITING WAS THE PARKING REVENUE BEING GENERATED ON THAT GARAGE, PARTICULARLY WITH ITS PROXIMITY TO THE BOMB FACTORY LIVE MUSIC VENUE, UM, THAT THEY REALLY, I MEAN, DIDN'T TAKE MUCH SUBSIDY TO GET THAT THING BUILT AT ALL.
AND FRANKLY, NONE OF THE SUBSIDY WENT TO THE PUBLIC PARKING GARAGE.
IT WAS FOR ENHANCED FACADE MATERIALS AND IMPROVING THE STREETSCAPE COMMISSIONER FORSYTH LAURA, UH, FROM THE, UH, KID SPRINGS NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU'VE HEARD TODAY, LAURA, THAT YOU KNOW, UM, IF WE, YOU KNOW, PASS THIS, UH, PARKING CODE AMENDMENT AND GET RID OF ALL THE PARKING MINIMUMS THAT THE MARKET'S GONNA BASICALLY TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING FOR, FOR, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
UH, I, I, I'M CURIOUS IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, UH, LIVING, UH, NEXT TO THE BISHOP ARTS DISTRICT, UH, WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN CAUSED WITH PARKING IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS NEAR BISHOP ARTS, WHAT HAS THE MARKET DONE TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM FOR YOU? UH, OR WHAT HAS THE GOVERNMENT DONE TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM FOR YOU? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS WE HAVE A BUNCH OF SMALL OPERATORS IN OUR AREA, UM, UNLIKE, UM, THE GENTLEMAN HERE WHO OWNS MASS AREAS, WE HAVE A LOT OF SMALL OPERATORS THAT DON'T NECESSARILY WORK TOGETHER.
WHAT WE'VE FOUND, ONE OF THE EXAMPLES I'VE GIVEN YOU, UM, AT 4 51 WEST DAVIS EL GORDO'S, IT WAS A RESTAURANT BEFORE THIS, THEY HAD PROBLEMS WITH PARKING AT THAT POINT.
THEY ENDED UP NOT RENEWING THEIR LEASE.
IT SAT VACANT, UM, BECAUSE THE LANDLORD WANTS A RESTAURANT THERE.
AND THEN SOMEBODY COMES ALONG WHO MAY NOT BE AS FAMILIAR WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, AND THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS.
WE HAVE ANOTHER RESTAURANT THAT THE NEIGHBORS HAVE TO DEAL WITH AGAIN.
SO I'M NOT THE MARKET WE ARE, I, I SAT HERE AND ALL I HEARD WAS ABOUT THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, THE, HOW WE MUST DO THIS FOR BUSINESS.
I DIDN'T HEAR ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE AND WHAT THE RESIDENTS HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THROUGHOUT THIS.
WHILE THE MARKET DETERMINES WHAT WILL HAPPEN HERE.
AND CAN I ASK A FOLLOW UP QUESTION? SURE.
UH, WOULD YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU STATED, I BELIEVE IN YOUR TESTIMONY, OR MAYBE WITH THE TESTIMONY OF SOMEONE ELSE FROM KIDS SPRINGS, IF WE, UH, PASSED THIS AMENDMENT THAT WAS PROPOSED BY COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT TO UH, UH, GET RID OF PARKING MINIMUMS FOR ALL BARS AND RESTAURANTS THAT ARE UNDER 3,500 SQUARE FEET.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT ON THE, THE BARS AND RESTAURANTS AND, AND BISHOP ARTS DISTRICT? I WILL SAY THIS, THAT RIGHT NOW, THE, UM, WE DO HAVE PDS.
WE HAVE A MISHMASH OF PDS THAT SURROUND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE HAVE PD EIGHT 30 AND WE HAVE PD 4, 6 7.
THOSE TWO HAVE BUILT IN PARKING, UM, REDUCTIONS.
SO MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THOSE WILL STAY, UM, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THINGS CAN'T CHANGE.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT, UM, THE PUSH WILL
[00:45:01]
BE TO PERHAPS LOOK AT THESE AGAIN.UM, BUT I THINK FROM OUR NEIGHBORHOOD'S PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT PDS RIGHT NOW, OUR, OUR, THE PRIMARY PD THAT PROTECTS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS PD ONE 60, THAT IS WHAT WE PUT INTO PLACE BACK IN THE EIGHTIES.
RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THIS WOULD BE PROPOSED IS WE ARE, THAT PD IS TIED TO THE CURRENT, TO THE CHAPTER 51 A ORDINANCE.
AND SO WE WOULD LOSE THE PROTECTIONS WITHIN PD ONE 60 WHEN IT COMES TO THE PARKING MINIMUMS. SO THAT IS WHY WE, WE ARE ASKING FOR THE STREETCAR TO NOT BE CONSIDERED AS A TO OD.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? I'M SORRY.
BUT, UM, I, I THOUGHT I HAD, UH, TYPED, UH, IN MY NOTES, UH, FROM LISTENING TO YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU, UH, THAT YOU OR ONE OF THE, UH, MEMBERS FROM KE, THE KEY PARK KIDS SPRINGS DELEGATION HERE TODAY HAD SAID THAT, UH, IF, IF WE DID, UH, PASS THIS PARKING AMENDMENT TO, UM, ELIMINATE PARKING MINIMUMS OR BARS AND RESTAURANTS THAT ARE UNDER 3,500 SQUARE FEET, THAT THAT WOULD PRETTY MUCH GET RID OF, UH, THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR ALL RESTAURANTS THAT ARE IN BISHOP PARKS.
NO, I'M SORRY IF I, IF YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT, I DID NOT MEAN TO SAY THAT, BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE PARKING REDUCTIONS, AS YOU SAY, BAKED IN TO THE VARIOUS PDS AND CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, THE POINT I THINK I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT THIS IS AN ORDINANCE ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY.
AND SO WHAT I, I'M ACTUALLY SPEAKING, WE MAY HAVE SOME PROTECTIONS THERE,
BUT THERE ARE OTHER AREAS THROUGHOUT THE CITY THAT HAVE NOT HAD THAT BENEFIT, AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE SUBJECTED TO THIS.
MR. SO DO YOU HAVE RPO PROTECTION IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD? WE HAVE LIMITED RPO.
WE HAVE HAD LIMITED SUCCESS IN GETTING THAT PUT INTO PLACE.
AND FOR THE, AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THAT IS? UM, BECAUSE THE PROCESS YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH FIRST, THE PROCESS OF PUTTING THE PETITION TOGETHER, GETTING THE BLOCK ON, EVERYBODY SIGNING UP ON THE, THEN THERE'S A WHOLE PROCESS OF THE CITY COMING OUT TO LOOK AT WHAT THE PARKING SITUATION IS.
AND HONESTLY, THEY DON'T COME OUT AT THE RIGHT TIMES TO SEE WHEN WE'RE HAVING THE PROBLEMS. UM, AND SO WE'VE HAD TIMES WHERE WE'VE SUBMITTED REQUESTS FOR RPOS THAT THEY'VE BEEN REJECTED BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE OVERALL PICTURE.
AND IN THE PLACES WHERE YOU DO HAVE RPO, IS IT ENFORCED BY THE CITY? NO.
RP O'S KIND OF A JOKE, ISN'T IT? IT IS.
SO WHEN PEOPLE SAY RP O'S A TOOL IN A TOOLBOX, IT REALLY ISN'T MUCH OF A TOOL, IS IT? NO.
AND ANOTHER ISSUE WE HAVE, IF I MAY, IS THE USE OF VALET PARKING IN OUR, IN OUR, IN, IN THE RESTAURANTS AROUND US.
UM, THEY, TO TRY TO GET AROUND THE RPO, I MEAN, WHAT THEY'LL DO IS, UM, THEY'LL HAVE A VALET, WHICH DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE A PERMIT, AND THEN THEY'LL DRIVE IT AROUND THE BLOCK TO THE BLOCK NEXT TO THE RPO AND PARK IT ON THE STREET.
AND CAN YOU GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES OF THE TYPE OF ISSUES YOU ALL FACE BEING CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE BARS AND RESTAURANTS IN YOUR COMMUNITY? WELL, I MEAN, THE BIG ONE, UM, I MEAN, MY NEIGHBOR WHO WAS HERE, THEY, THEY HAVE THE ISSUE OF, UH, THEIR DRIVEWAYS BEING BLOCKED.
YOU CANNOT GET SOMEBODY OUT THERE TO TAKE CARE OF THAT.
UM, A LOT OF OUR HOMES WERE BUILT WITHOUT DRIVEWAYS AND OFF STREET PARKING.
SO OUR RESIDENTS, THEIR ONLY OPTION TO PARK IS ON THE STREET.
AND WHEN THOSE ARE TAKEN AWAY BY INDIVIDUALS FROM OUTSIDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY, THEY HAVE, THEY DON'T HAVE PARKING.
[00:50:01]
OUR, SOME OF OUR STREETS ARE VERY NARROW.IF YOU GET PARKING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET, MAYBE ONE CAR CAN GO DOWN THE MIDDLE AT A TIME.
UM, I KNOW IN A BLOCK THAT I USE REGULARLY, PARKING ON BOTH SIDES.
WHEN I TRIED TO TURN OFF OF ZANG, WHICH IS A 35 MILE PER HOUR STREET, AND I TRIED TO TURN ONTO A SIDE STREET, I HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE PARKING ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE CORNER.
I CAN EASILY HIT A CAR THAT'S PARKED ON THE STREET.
UM, AND THAT COMES A LOT WHEN WE HAVE, UM, A BUILDING THERE THAT'S USED FOR EVENTS.
UM, AND WE GET A LOT OF CARS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FROM THAT.
AND WHAT'S YOUR NAME AGAIN? MY NAME IS LAURA PALMER.
MS. PALMER, UH, THANK YOU FOR COMING AND PRESENTING, UH, YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY.
AND I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN COMMENTS ABOUT GUARDRAILS BEING FOUND IN THE MARKET FORCES MM-HMM
AND IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY CORRECTLY, YOU'RE SAID IN YOUR PARTICULAR AREA, THE MARKET FORCES HAVE FAILED.
I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR EARLIER TESTIMONY ABOUT STREET CARS.
UH, WE DON'T HAVE STREET CARS IN MY PARTICULAR AREA OF MY DISTRICT.
SO WHAT MY QUESTION IS FOR YOU IS HOW MANY HOMES ARE NEARBY OR RESIDENCE ARE NEARBY THE STREET CARS? WELL, THE STREETCAR THAT RUNS RIGHT NOW, UM, THERE'S HOMES THAT ARE ON ZANG RIGHT THERE.
I LIVE TWO BLOCKS WITHIN TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FROM THE STREETCAR.
SO RIGHT NOW, OUR ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD, I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE A SINGLE, WE'RE A PREDOMINANTLY SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT AREA NEXT TO THE STREETCAR.
SO IF THE AMENDMENT PASSES AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, PARKING REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE ELIMINATED FOR, FOR, FOR, FOR, FOR, FOR MY NEIGHBORHOOD WITH REGARDS TO OUR PD ONE 60.
AND SO THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE ASKING THAT THE STREET CAR NOT BE INCLUDED AND BE CONSIDERED AT THE AT.
IF YOU DO AGREE, I WILL SAY THIS, IF YOU DO AGREE THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN ELIMINATION OF PARKING MINIMUMS WITHIN A HALF MILE OF A TOD OKAY.
WHICH I WOULD SUGGEST YOU REALLY, REALLY THINK ABOUT, BECAUSE THAT WILL AFFECT A LOT OF OTHER SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE AROUND THOSE TODS.
THEY MAY NOT NOT EVEN KNOW THAT THEIR PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD IS IN THE CROSS HAIRS OF THIS.
UM, THAT I, I WOULD, I, AND I HAVE SAID BEFORE, I STRONGLY SUGGEST IF YOU DO THAT, THAT YOU GO OUT AND YOU IDENTIFY THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS AND WORK A PLAN FOR A SELECT VIEW TO SEE HOW THEY WORK OUT, RATHER THAN TO DO THIS IN A BLANKET MANNER.
HOWEVER, I ALSO REALIZE WE'RE AT THIS POINT IN THE PROCESS.
AND FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I AM SPEAKING TODAY, NOT JUST FROM RESPECT NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT PLEASE RESPECT MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER? COMMISSIONER KNIGHT? YEAH.
UM, MR. CARDIN, I'M GONNA SWITCH.
UM, MR. CARDIN, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.
I WAS CURIOUS IF YOU COULD EXPAND JUST A BIT ON THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE AND HOW IT RELATES TO PARKING, AND NOT ONLY IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, BUT PERHAPS OTHER CITIES WHERE YOU'VE WORKED ON IT AND SEEN THE DIFFERENT CODES AND KIND OF HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.
SO, UM, I DEAL WITH PRIMARILY COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE, UH, PRIMARILY IN RETAIL, MIXED USE AND MULTIFAMILY, PRIMARILY AROUND TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT.
I'VE DONE TRADITIONAL SHOPPING CENTERS, UH, AND NEARBY SUBURBS.
I'VE DONE CONVERT, WORKED ON CONVERSION PROJECTS FOR NEAR, UM, OF OLD SHOPPING CENTERS.
AND I'VE SEEN IN SEVERAL SITUATIONS WHERE PARKING HAS BECOME VERY CRITICAL TO, UH, ENABLING THE PROJECT TO, TO WORK OPTIMALLY.
ONE GOOD EXAMPLE, ONE MORE RECENT
[00:55:01]
ONES, WAS A PROJECT THAT AT THE BORDER OF DALLAS AND DUNCANVILLE, UM, THERE'S A WALMART SUPER CENTER ON THE DALLAS SIDE, UM, COUPLE VACANT INTERSECTIONS.THERE'S AT CLARK AND WHEATLAND.
DUNCANVILLE, UH, WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROJECT, ORIGINALLY HAD A PARKING REQUIREMENT THAT WAS QUITE A BIT GREATER THAN DALLAS'.
AND BOTH INTERSECTIONS, DALLAS AND DUNCANVILLE WERE PARALYZED BECAUSE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS EFFECTIVELY RULED OUT THE ABILITY TO PUT IN THE RESTAURANTS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTED.
UM, OVER TIME, HOWEVER, AROUND 2020 DUNCANVILLE DID REFORM THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND RELAXED THEM.
AND DUNCANVILLE WAS ABLE TO GET A CHIPOTLE, A DUNKING DONUTS, LITTLE CAESARS, YOU KNOW, THIS FULL STRIP.
AND IF WE HAD MORE SPACE TO WORK WITH ON THE DUNCANVILLE SIDE, WE WOULD'VE PRODUCED MORE RESTAURANTS.
WE WERE SIMPLY JUST CAPACITY LIMITED JUST THROUGH A SPACE, BUT NOT DUE TO PARKING.
UM, THE DALLAS SIDE HUB, OR CONTINUES TO STAND VACANT BECAUSE IT IS LITERALLY EASIER TO PRODUCE THAT SAME RESTAURANT, THAT SAME UNIT IN DUNCANVILLE RIGHT NOW AS IT IS IN DALLAS.
AND DALLAS SPECIFICALLY, UH, CAN GET SHIPPED, NOT JUST IN DUNCANVILLE.
IT IT, WE LOSE OUT TO CARROLLTON ON PARTY REQUIREMENTS.
I BELIEVE WE ALSO LOSE OUT TO RICHARDSON ON PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, THE BORDER REGIONS ARE VERY PARTICULARLY PRONE TO THIS BECAUSE SINCE THEY TEND TO BE MORE CAR DEPENDENT, THERE ISN'T A REAL DIFFERENCE FROM CAPTURING THE MARKET IF YOU'RE ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET OR THE OTHER.
SO REGULATORY DIFFERENCES CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING, OKAY, UM, IF I CAN PUT IN THREE RESTAURANTS ON THE DUNCANVILLE SIDE AND ONLY TWO ON THE DALLAS SIDE, DUNCANVILLE MAY ACTUALLY GET UP, GET ALL THE RESTAURANTS.
'CAUSE THERE WAS ONLY DEMAND FOR THREE.
WE'RE BEHIND DUNCANVILLE, RICHARDSON, CARON AND CARROLLTON.
AND, UM, THIS, THAT ISSUE GETS ACTUALLY AUGMENTED MUCH FURTHER IN THE INNER CORE OF DALLAS, UH, PARTICULARLY AROUND TRANSIT ORGANIZATION, PARTICULARLY IN NON PD, UH, UH, UH, NON PD NEIGHBORHOODS IN, IN, UH, SOUTHERN DALLAS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN? THE SECOND ROUND? UH, YES.
UH, UH, THANK YOU FOR, FOR COMING, UH, THIS MORNING.
UH, IF I UNDERSTAND, YOU DO DEVELOPMENT AROUND TODS, CORRECT.
ARE THERE ANY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, WHETHER IT'S SINGLE FAMILY HOMES OR OR MULTI-FAMILY? YES.
AND HOW CLOSE IN PROXIMITY ARE THERE TO THE TODS? OFTEN THEY'RE WITHIN A BLOCK AWAY OR LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET.
I DEAL WITH PRIMARILY TOD IN SOUTHERN DALLAS.
UM, AND IN THE PART OF SOUTHERN DALLAS THAT DOES, DID NOT HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE TECHNICAL PDS THAT WERE CREATED FOR OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY.
AND SO OFTEN I HAVE TO CREATE CUSTOM PDS JUST TO ADDRESS RESIDENTIAL.
BUT THAT BARRIER IS MUCH, MUCH HIGHER TO CREATE PDS FOR, UH, COMMERCIAL AND, UH, RESTAURANT USES IN PARTICULAR.
AND IT IS PARTICULARLY PENALIZING TO THOSE SITES, UH, NEAR TOD FOR RETAIL, FOR RE, UH, COMMERCIAL USES ON THE DUNCANVILLE SIDE.
ARE THERE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES NEAR THE TOD? UH, DUNCANVILLE DOESN'T HAVE TOD, BUT IN THE INNER, IN THE INNER CORE, SO I DEAL WITH PRIMARILY SUBURBAN, LIKE BORDERLINE ENTERING SUBURBS.
THAT'S ONE PART SET OF CATEGORY I WORK WITH.
AND THEN WITHIN THE CITY ITSELF, I DEAL WITH A LOT OF TOD.
I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE MIXED THAT UP.
BUT DUNCANVILLE DOES HAVE RELAXED PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND THEY ARE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
IN FACT, THE CHIPOTLE DUNCANVILLE, UH, DUNKING DONUT STEEL WAS, UH, IT BACKS UP DIRECTLY TO A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN BY RELAXED PARKING STANDARDS? SO THERE, I WANNA SAY FOR DUNCANVILLE, THEIR PARKING STANDARDS FOR RESTAURANT, IT MIGHT BE ONE SPACE PER 400 PER 400 SQUARE FEET OF RESTAURANT.
I THINK FOR DRIVING REST, FOR, UH, SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS, UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S RELAXED TO THE POINT THAT FROM A ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, FOR NON, AGAIN, JUST TRADITIONAL SUBURBAN, WE WOULD NEVER ACTUALLY RELAX IT TO THAT POINT.
THERE'S NO, THE MARKET DOESN'T TELL US TO SAY, OKAY, ONLY PUT IN ONE SPACE PER 400 SQUARE FEET OF RESTAURANT.
WE PROBABLY WOULD GET IT DOWN TO LIKE ONE PER ONE 50 OR ONE PER 200, SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE.
UM, BUT MARKETS DO SHIFT AND THERE ARE SOME MARKETS WE MIGHT GET CLOSER TO ONE TO TWO 50 OR ONE TO 300 IF THE DEMAND IS THERE.
THERE'S PROBABLY SOME CASES OF THAT.
UM, YOU GO TO CARROLLTON AND NOLTON ROAD WHERE THE EFFECTIVE PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND JUST THE DEMAND FOR PARKING AND RESTAURANTS IN THAT AREA IS SO GREAT.
THAT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE YOU WOULD CONSIDER GOING BEYOND JUST ONE TO 200, UH, FOR PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
[01:00:01]
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS? I DO HAVE A QUESTION, NOT FOR THIS GENTLEMAN, BUT FOR THE, IS THIS NAVY VETERAN FROM DISTRICT SIX? I THINK IT'S DISTRICT SIX, WEST DALLAS.I'VE HAD AN INFECTION IN MY EAR, SO, AND IF IT'S ME OVER HERE IN THE CORNER, IF YOU NEED ME TO REPEAT THE QUESTION, I, I'LL DO THAT FOR YOU IF YOU CAN'T HEAR ME CORRECTLY.
UH, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT, UH, YOU MADE A COMMENT ABOUT, UH, FAMILIES, GRANDPARENTS, AND PARENTS WALKING THEIR KIDS, UH, TO SCHOOL.
UH, HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IN TERMS OF, LEMME REPHRASE THAT QUESTION.
ARE THERE MULTI-GENERATIONAL FAMILIES THAT LIVE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD? OF COURSE, YES, SIR.
UH, SOMETIMES IT IS, IT IS KIND OF CONFUSING FOR, UH, COMMUNITY MEETINGS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE OF, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE UNDER-RESOURCED AND A LOT OF GRANT WRITING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT TO CONSIDER US NORTH OF 30.
SO WE'RE LIKE IN A ELITE AREA.
ONCE YOU, YOU PASS NORTH OF 30, YOU'RE NOT THE SOUTHERN SECTOR OR, OR YOU'RE, SO WE'RE CONSIDERED A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT SAME, THAT SAME, UH, I, I'M GONNA CALL IT, UH, DILEMMA, UH, GRANDPARENTS RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
YOU KNOW? 'CAUSE CHILDREN EITHER HAVE DRUG HABITS, UH, NOT MAKING KNOW FINANCIALLY, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTIVE, YOU KNOW, OR, OR CAN RAISE CHILDREN.
SO I, I SEE, I SAW IT THIS MORNING.
EVEN WITH THE WEATHER, YOU KNOW, THE GRANDPARENTS, YOU KNOW, WALKING THE DRIVE.
I, I'M, LEMME GO BACK A LITTLE BIT.
I, I HELP ORGANIZE, UH, WHAT'S CALLED WEST DALLAS, ONE 13 NEIGHBORHOODS THROUGHOUT WEST DALLAS.
BUT I, I'M FAMILIAR THROUGH WALKMAN LAKE, UH, ELM THICK AT
AND, UH, IT, IT IS JUST, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE DILEMMA THAT WE'RE IN, THAT GRANDPARENTS ARE RAISING GRANDCHILDREN.
AND I SEE 'EM WHEN THEY GO TO THOSE SCHOOLS.
'CAUSE I LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I DON'T LIVE OUTSIDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I, I DRIVE, YOU KNOW, I, I'M DRIVING BACK AND FORTH EVERY DAY, YOU KNOW, AND I SEE 'EM IN THE AFTERNOON WHEN THEY GO HOME ALSO.
AND THEN WHEN I SIT ABOUT THE NO SIDEWALKS, SOME OF THE STREETS ARE SO NARROW, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY HAVE TO GET OUT ON THE STREET, YOU KNOW, TO WALK AROUND, YOU KNOW, JUST THE, THE DRAINAGE IS NOT REALLY GREAT.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF LITTLE NUANCES LIKE THAT FOR OUR, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS ALSO IN THE SOUTHERN SECTOR.
AND I HOPE I DIDN'T NO, NO, THAT'S, THAT, THAT'S A GOOD ANSWER.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT SOMETIMES IN MULTI-GENERATIONAL HOMES, THERE ARE MULTIPLE CARS TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE HOMES.
ON AVERAGE, HOW MANY VEHICLES WOULD YOU SAY THAT A STANDARD HOME WOULD HAVE IN, IN YOUR PARTICULAR AREA? I, I WOULD SAY AT THE MINIMUM THREE.
'CAUSE ONE'S USUALLY NOT WORKING, SO IT'S PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY.
UH, YOU MAY HAVE ONE OUT IN THE STREET, BUT YOU KNOW, NORMALLY THE OTHER ONE IS USED, YOU KNOW, FOR EITHER GOING TO GROCERIES OR WHATEVER.
BUT, UH, I WOULD SAY THE AVERAGE IS, UH, I, I WOULD SAY ABOUT THREE CARS, MINIMUM.
AND I, I'VE HEARD THIS QUESTION COME UP, UH, QUITE A BIT, BECAUSE THERE ARE HOMES WITH GARAGES.
UH, WHY AREN'T GARAGES BEING USED TO STORE VEHICLES IN YOUR AREA AGAIN? SO WHY AREN'T, UH, DO THE HOMES IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE GARAGES? SOME OF 'EM DO.
SOME OF 'EM HAVE THE MAKESHIFT CARPORTS, AND THEN THE OTHERS JUST, UH, THEY PUT GRAVEL BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PARK ON GRASS AND YOU PUT GRAVEL IN THE DRIVEWAY, OR YOU MAKE YOUR OWN DRIVEWAY, UH, FOR THE HOMES WITH GARAGES.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHY THEY WOULD NOT PARK THEIR CARS IN THE GARAGE? THE ONES WITH THE GARAGES? UH, USUALLY, UH, I WOULD CALL 'EM ADUS.
UH, YOU KNOW, IT IS A FAMILY MEMBER IN THERE WITH THEIR CHILDREN, OR, OR, UH, MAYBE A, A GRANDPARENT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, SOMEBODY THAT'S TOO OLD OR, OR ELDERLY, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S AN A DU MAKES NOT MAYBE AN ATTACHMENT TO THE BACK, BUT IT'S ATTACHMENT TO THE HOUSE.
SO THE GARAGE IS BEING USED FOR ANOTHER LEGITIMATE PURPOSE.
ANOTHER BEDROOM, ANOTHER, YEAH.
ANOTHER, UH, THANK YOU FOR THAT, MR. CHAIR.
COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSIONER FORSIGHT, A FOLLOW UP QUESTION LAST ROUND.
HEY, RONNIE, DURING YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE NEIGHBORHOODS NEAR TRINITY GROVES, UH, OUR BURDEN WITH OVERFLOW PARKING, I THINK YOU REFERRED TO A BAHAA AS ONE OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND TRINITY GROVES IS IN LA BAHALA,
[01:05:01]
YOU KNOW, AND I I YOU TRY TO, THEY, THEY DIFFERENTIATE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT TRINITY GROVES NOT A NEIGHBORHOOD.I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION THAT I ASKED LAURA PALMER EARLIER ABOUT KID SPRINGS.
UM, UH, YOU'VE, YOU HEARD TODAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BEING TOLD THAT THE MARKET'S GONNA SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS OF OVERFLOW PARKING IN, IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHEN WE GET RID OF PARKING MINIMUMS. I'M CURIOUS, UH, HAS THE MARKET OR GOVERNMENT DONE ANYTHING TO SOLVE THE PARKING PROBLEM IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD? ARE THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT, UH, ARE GETTING OVERFLOW PARKING, UH, FROM THE RESTAURANTS AT TRINITY GROVES? UH, THE PARKING IN TRINITY GROVE DURING THE WEEK, YOU KNOW, LATE LATER ON IN THE EVENINGS, YOU KIND OF CAN GET IN AND OUT OF YOUR, OF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
THERE'S GOLDEN, AND THERE'S HERBERT, AND THERE'S BATAN.
THOSE STREETS, YOU CAN, ON THE WEEKENDS, YOU CAN'T GET IN, IN AND OUT OF THERE.
THERE'S ONLY ONE TRAFFIC LIGHT RIGHT OFF THE BRIDGE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE, BUT YOU GOT CARS ALL THE WAY AROUND TO CANADA TRYING TO GET THROUGH THAT ONE LIGHT.
IF NOT, THEY GOTTA COME THROUGH THE, THE, THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
A LOT OF TIMES THERE'S, UM, I, I DON'T, I'LL BRING THIS UP, BUT THERE WAS A SHOOTING, SOMEONE WAS KILLED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, OR, OR NOT LONG AGO.
UH, BUT IT'S A LOT OF THOSE DRIVE-BYS, YOU KNOW, JUST PEOPLE CRUISING THROUGH THERE AND, AND NOT, YOU KNOW, IT IS JUST, THEY DON'T LIVE THERE.
THEY JUST COME TO CRUISE OR MAYBE COME AND EAT AT THE RESTAURANT AND THE RESTAURANTS NIGHT.
I, I GO TO THE RESTAURANTS MYSELF, UM, AND THEY'RE NOT OVERPRICED, BUT, UH, TRINITY GROVES WAS KIND OF LIKE THE SAME THING AS BISHOP ARTS.
AND, UH, THE PARKING IS HORRIBLE.
BISHOP ART, AND THAT'S MY FAVORITE CIGAR SHOP IS IN BISHOP ARTS.
SO I GO THERE TOO, BUT, YOU KNOW, AND TRINITY GROVES IS EVEN TIGHTER, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I COULD SEE THE CHANGE IN BRIDGE PARKS WHERE THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS ARE SITTING RIGHT ON TOP OF THE, THE, THE RESIDENTS AND THEY'RE PUSHING THE RESIDENTS OUT.
AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO US, THAT A LOT OF THE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE A RESTAURANT.
WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE A HOME, AN OFFICE BUILDING.
WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S CALLED A CHIHUAHUA HOUSE, AND YOU GOTTA GOOGLE THAT, YOU KNOW? IT'S FOR SALES.
IT'S BEEN FOR SALES SINCE THEY BUILT IT.
UM, I TALKED TO THE OWNERS AND HE, HE TOLD ME IT COULD BE AN OFFICE, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE AN OFFICE, YOU KNOW, SO YOU HAVE AN OFFICE, WHAT, MAYBE YOU'LL MIGHT RENT THREE OR FOUR ROOMS OR SOMETHING.
SO THAT'S THREE OR FOUR CARS AT THE MINIMUM.
SO, AND THEY ONLY HAVE A ONE CAR GARAGE, SO EVERYBODY ELSE IS GONNA HAVE TO BE AROUND ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE STREET.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE STREETS I MENTIONED THAT YOU CAN'T PUT TWO CARS, YOU KNOW, COMING ONE WAY AND THE OTHER, AND THEN AN EMERGENCY VEHICLE THROUGH THERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO, UM, THEY HAD TO ALIGN THAT STREET.
SO ALL THE TRAFFIC IS GOING ONE WAY, NEXT ONE MAY COMING THIS WAY, THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE YET, BUT THE OTHER SIDE COMING BACK DOWN SO YOU CAN GET AN EMERGENCY VEHICLE OPEN DOWN THE STREETS.
'CAUSE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THIRD GENERATION LEGACY FAMILIES THERE THAT, UM, AT NIGHT, MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, MY NEIGHBOR PASSED AWAY, YOU KNOW, FROM HEART ATTACK, IF THERE'S ALWAYS EMERGENCY VEHICLES COMING IN AND OUTTA THERE, YOU KNOW, LATE AT NIGHT, YOU KNOW.
THANK YOU, RONNIE, FOR DESCRIBING THE PROBLEMS THAT Y'ALL DEAL WITH IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND EMPHASIZING THE FACT THAT NOTHING'S BEING DONE TO SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS. THANK YOU.
YOU COMMISSIONERS, IT IS 10 49.
UH, LET'S TAKE A 20 MINUTE BREAK AND WE'LL GO DOWNSTAIRS TO THE CHAMBER AND WE'LL BEGIN OUR WORK OVER IN 20 MINUTES.
GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.
DISTRICT ONE, COMMISSIONER SCHOCK, DISTRICT TWO.
COMMISSIONER HERBERT, PRESENT, DISTRICT FOUR.
COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN PRESENT? DISTRICT NINE.
DISTRICT 14, COMMISSIONER KINGSTON AND PLACE 15 VICE CHAIR RUBEN? I'M HERE.
IS COMMISSIONER WHEELER ONLINE? SHE'S NOT ONLINE.
'CAUSE I THINK SHE, SHE WAS, UH, SHE WANTED TO BE ONLINE FOR THIS PIECE.
UH, WE ARE, UH, GONNA FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS WE DID THE LAST TIME WE HAVE THE LIST.
UH, WE ALSO HAVE, UH, ANOTHER POTENTIAL LIST OF ADJUSTMENTS THAT WERE SENT IN BY, UH, A COUPLE OF COMMISSIONERS STAFF IS HERE.
UH, SO WE'LL, WE WILL TAKE OUR TIME AND MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING.
I KNOW THAT SOME OF THESE, I, I READ MULTIPLE TIMES TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THEM.
AND I, I WILL PROBABLY ASK STAFF AT SOME POINT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS THE CASE.
THAT IN FACT, I AM UNDERSTANDING, UH, THE CONSEQUENCES AND UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES POTENTIALLY
[01:10:01]
OF WHAT WE TALK ABOUT.UM, AS WE HAVE SAID MANY TIMES, ONCE IT, THE SLOW LIGHT TURNS ON HERE TO THIS MICROPHONE, YOU KNOW, THE AIR GETS A LITTLE LIGHTER.
UH, AND SO MAYBE WE SLOW IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT TODAY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, WE GET IT RIGHT.
UH, SO WE'RE GONNA START RIGHT BACK IN ORDER AND WE'LL GO TO NUMBER THREE.
UM, IN THE MATTER OF DCA 1 9 0 DASH 0 0 2, UH, I MOVE, WE, UM, FOLLOW ZAC RECOMMENDATIONS WITH THE, UM, REVISION THAT WE MAINTAIN PARKING MINIMUMS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS, BUT WE REDUCE THAT MINIMUM TO ONE SPACE PER 200 SQUARE FEET OF COVERED AREA.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HOUSER FOR YOUR MOTION.
AND VICE CHAIR RUBIN, FOR YOUR SECOND COMMENTS.
ANY COMMENTS? UM, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
YEAH, I, UM, I HOPE THAT BY NOW THAT SOME OF THE, THE LOGIC HERE IS SORT OF SELF-EVIDENT THAT, UM, UM, WE NEED TO CREATE, UH, MORE FLEXIBILITY, UH, FOR EXISTING BUILDINGS, UH, WE, WE TO, AND TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF VACANCY IN SOME OF OUR OLDER DISTRICTS.
UM, WE NEED TO, UM, GIVE, UH, CONSIDERATION TO SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS THAT ARE BURDENED UNNECESSARILY BY OUR PARKING REGULATIONS.
UM, WE NEED TO HAVE A PARKING ORDINANCE THAT REFLECTS, UH, THE TECHNOLOGY THAT HAS AFFECTED ALL OF OUR LIVES WITH RESPECT TO RIDE SHARE AND, UH, OTHER PARKING MANAGEMENT TOOLS.
UM, SO, UM, I'M, I'M QUITE COMFORTABLE WITH THE, THE ONE TO 200 AND, UH, THE, UH, THE BENEFITS THAT IT WILL PROVIDE OUR CITY.
I HAVE COMMISSIONER KINGSTON FOLLOWED BY COMMISSIONER HANTON.
I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION.
I THINK BARS AND RESTAURANTS ARE THE MOST INTENSIVE USE WE HAVE IN THE CITY, AND I THINK THAT PROXIMITY, THEY'RE OFTEN, UM, ADJACENT OR IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO RESIDENCES, AND THEY CREATE A LOT OF CONFLICT WITH THE RESIDENCES.
I ALSO DON'T THINK WE'RE RELYING ON ANY DATA HERE.
UM, IN TRYING TO LOOK AT THIS ISSUE, I TALKED TO, UM, LANDLORDS.
I TALKED TO, UM, LEASE BROKERS, AND EVERYONE I TALKED TO SAID THAT WE'RE PARKING IT.
WE'RE EITHER UNDER PARKING IT TO CODE CURRENTLY, OR WE'RE PARKING IT ABOUT, RIGHT.
I COULDN'T FIND A PROFESSIONAL WHO HONESTLY SAID THEY THOUGHT WE WERE PARKING.
WE WERE OVER PARKING BARS AND RESTAURANTS IN THIS CITY.
AND, UM, I ALSO LOOKED AT WHAT OTHER CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE DOING, HOW LONG THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT, WHAT THEIR, UH, RESULTS HAVE BEEN.
AND I COULDN'T FIND ANY DATA TO SUPPORT THIS REDUCTION, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO OUR MOST INTENSIVE USES.
AND THE FACT THAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY HAS SAID THAT ONCE WE ELIMINATE THESE PARKING MINIMUMS, WE CANNOT EASILY REINSTATE THEM.
I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE GET THEM RIGHT.
AND AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND CONSIDER ELIMINATING OTHER PARKING MINIMUMS FOR OTHER USES THAT ARE OFTEN ADJACENT TO BARS AND RESTAURANTS, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE, UM, KEEP THE BREAKS ON TO PROTECT SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND I THINK THAT THESE INFILL NEIGHBORHOODS, NOT JUST PLACES LIKE BISHOP ARTS IN LOWER GREENVILLE AND DEEP AUM THAT MAYBE HAVE SOME PROTECTIONS ALREADY, UM, BUT ALSO THE EMERGING PLACES IN DISTRICT SIX AND DISTRICT SEVEN, OTHER PLACES IN DISTRICT ONE, WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE PRESSURE FOR THESE TYPE OF INTENSIVE USES COMING ONLINE.
THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, THESE SMALL BUSINESSES, THEY JUST CAN'T OPERATE UNDER THESE CONSTRAINTS.
I DON'T WANT AN UNDERFUNDED SMALL BUSINESS COMING IN AND OPERATING NEXT TO MY HOUSE, BECAUSE WHEN THEY CAN'T OPERATE AS A COFFEE SHOP OR A SMALL BAR RESTAURANT AND MEET THE RENT, THEN THE NEXT THING THEY DO IS INTENSIFY THE USE.
IF IT'S A COFFEE SHOP TODAY THAT CAN'T OPERATE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PARK IT, THEN THEY TRY TO GET A BEER AND WINE LICENSE SO THEY CAN BE A WINE SHOP.
AND THEN WHEN THEY STILL CAN'T OPERATE, THEN THEY GET A LIQUOR LICENSE.
AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, THAT COFFEE SHOP IS A BAR THAT'S OPERATING TILL 2:00 PM AND IT NEVER HAD A PARKING SPOT ONE.
AND IT'S A NUISANCE THAT BECOMES A PROBLEM FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
[01:15:01]
RESTAURANTS THAT CAN OPERATE UNDER OUR CODE, THAT CAN AFFORD TO OPERATE AND CAN VANTAGE AND CAN HAVE ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO BE A RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS OPERATING IN OUR COMMUNITIES.AND IF WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE SOME KIND OF, UM, BUMPERS ON WHERE THESE THINGS CAN OPERATE, WHICH THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT THAT IN HERE, THEN I THINK THEY NEED TO BE PARKED AT A HUNDRED TO ONE.
UH, I HAVE COMMISSIONER HAMPTON, FOLLOWED BY COMMISSIONER WHEELER AND THEN BY CHAIR RUBIN.
UM, I ALSO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW WE ARE DISCUSSING LOWERING THE STANDARDS FOR BAR AND RESTAURANT.
I THINK WE HEARD TESTIMONY TODAY.
I KNOW I SEE IT THROUGHOUT VARIOUS AREAS OF MY DISTRICT, FROM DEEP EL TO THE CEDARS, UM, TO, UH, YOU KNOW, OTHER SMALLER BUSINESSES THAT THERE'S A LOT OF ADJACENCY ISSUES, UM, SIMILAR TO WHAT COMMISSIONER KINGSTON HAS MENTIONED.
AND WE DO HAVE OTHER TOOLS THAT I THINK COULD PERHAPS ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL, EITHER THROUGH BUILDING IN PROVISIONS FOR RIDESHARE, UM, HOW WE HANDLE, WE HAVE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.
THOSE ARE LAYERED IN, IN MANY OF THE, UM, PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS THAT WE HAVE VETTED.
YOU'RE, WE ALREADY ARE TALKING ABOUT, UM, REDUCTIONS IN PROXIMITY TO DART RAIL, UM, TO OTHER TRANSIT MEASURES.
SO I THINK CUMULATIVE, WE MAY BE MEETING, UM, SOME OF THE INTENT BEHIND REDUCING THIS THROUGH SOME OF THE OTHER MEASURES THAT WE'RE GONNA GET TO LATER TODAY.
BUT I THINK WE COULD EVEN LAYER ON REDUCTIONS FOR RIDESHARE, UM, ADDRESSING, LOADING, UM, ADDRESSING, UM, HOW WE ARE THINKING ABOUT PICKUP DROP OFF, JUST GENERAL COMPATIBILITY ISSUES.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT I ASKED DURING OUR BRIEFING THIS MORNING WAS REGARDING THE SUP, BECAUSE MANY TIMES WHERE WE HAVE THE REDUCTIONS IN PARKING, THEY ARE ALREADY COUPLED WITH AN SUP PROCESS, WHICH MEANS THAT THERE IS A DETAILED REVIEW THAT HAPPENS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT LOWERING OF THE STANDARD.
AND I THINK THAT THOSE ARE TWO CRITICAL WAYS TO ENSURING THE SUCCESS, NOT JUST OF THE BUSINESSES, BUT OF THE OVERALL SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS, AND AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO THAT MORE DETAILED REVIEW, IT'S THE HOURS OF OPERATION.
SOMETHING THAT CLOSES AT 10, SOMETHING THAT CLOSES AT 11 IS NOT THE IMPACT ON THE OVERALL COMMUNITY TO SOMETHING THAT'S OPEN UNTIL 2:00 AM I DON'T THINK THAT WE WANNA THINK ABOUT LAYERING IN THAT COMPLEXITY AND WHAT'S BEFORE US TODAY.
I'VE HEARD A LOT OF, UM, THOUGHT ABOUT TRYING TO MAKE THE STREAMLINE MAKING IT ACCESSIBLE.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD ALL, UM, HOPE IS ONE OF THE GOALS THAT COMES OUT OF THIS, BUT IT ALSO, FOR ME, NEEDS TO BE COUPLED WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S OTHER CONSIDERATIONS BEYOND SIMPLY STREAMLINING OF OUR CODE PROCESS.
I'M LITERALLY IN THE HALLWAY FROM SCHOOL, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT I CAN GET ON THIS, UM, I, WHEN I FIRST STARTED EVEN LEARNING ANYTHING ABOUT ZONING AND, AND, UM, ANY TYPE OF ZONING PERMITS, UM, CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCIES, THIS WAS THE FIRST HURDLE THAT I CAME UP UNDER.
AND IT WAS THESE PARKING MINIMUMS. SO I CAN'T SAY IN UNIQUE AREAS LIKE LITTLE GREENVILLE, BISHOP ARTS, THOSE TYPE OF AREAS THAT ARE SO LANDLOCKED BECAUSE OF THE, THE HOUSES THAT, AND, AND THE, AND, AND, AND, UM, HOW THOSE BUSINESSES WERE BUILT, UM, AS FAR AS THE PROPERTY.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT 100% I HAVE HAD TO GO BACK AND TELL A PROPERTY OWNER, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU CANNOT, UM, YOU CANNOT RENT OUT TWO OF YOUR SPACES BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING.
AND I CAN DRIVE DOWN THAT STREET EVERY SINGLE DAY.
AND YOU SEE THAT THE PARKING THAT THEY HAVE IN THE REAR OF THEIR BUILDING NEVER USED.
NOT ONLY THE PARKING OUT FRONT THAT HAS A SETBACK REQUIREMENT, UM, THAT, THAT, THAT'S WITHIN 51 A SAYS THAT 25 FEET FROM THE CURB, AND THAT'S HALF OF THEIR BUILDING.
I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY PROBABLY TO START, BUT IF ONCE THEY GET IN THERE, THEY BEGIN TO MAKE MONEY.
BECAUSE I WAS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, MOST OF MY FRIENDS ARE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO HAD JUST ENOUGH CAPITAL TO START UP.
AND THEY, THEY'RE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE YOUNG LADIES AND YOUNG MEN WHO AFTER DOING COVID, HAD TO FIND ALTERNATE WAYS TO MAKE MONEY.
AND THEY WERE GOOD COOKS, AND WE DIDN'T GET TO GET THEM IN SOUTH DALLAS WHERE THEY LIVED AT BECAUSE WE
[01:20:01]
HAD PARKING ISSUES WHERE THIS ONE PER 100, UM, ON A SMALL BUSINESS THAT, AND, AND THE SETBACKS MADE US LOSE OUT ON THOSE TYPE OF BUSINESSES.A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE END UP GOING TO PLEASANT GROVE AND OTHER PLACES THAT HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESTAURANTS AND BARS WHERE SOUTH DALLAS ONLY HAS ONE ROW, RIGHT? WE DON'T HAVE, UM, SOME OF OUR, OUR RETAIL SPACES ARE NOT RENTED FOR YEARS ON TOP OF YEARS, WHICH LEAD TO CRIME BECAUSE OF PARKING MINIMUMS. NOT JUST THE PD, BUT THE PARKING MINIMUMS. MY BUILDING, I HAVE AN OUT FRONT.
I CAN, I ONLY PARKED THE MAJORITY OF TIME, TIME IN FRONT OF MY BUILDING.
WHEN I WENT TO GET MY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR MY SALON, WHEN IT WAS A SALON AT THAT TIME, I HAD TO USE, I HAD TO GET AN ADDITIONAL LOT TO PUT PARKING ON.
AND TO THIS DAY, UNLESS I HAVE SOMETHING MAJOR AT MY BUILDING, WE NEVER PARK IN THE BACK.
AND THESE PARKING REQUIREMENTS CHOKE OUT BUSINESSES.
MARTIN LUTHER KING HAD A FARM DISTRICT RECREATED, SO THEY CAN ALLOW SOME OF THAT FOR THE SHOP FRONT.
SO WHEN I GO TO HEARING ABOUT HEARING SOMEONE SAY THAT THEY, THE, THE, THE, THE PRO THE BUSINESS OWNER WHO DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CAPITAL TO SUSTAIN OR WHATEVER, LIKE, THAT'S A HIT TO THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT BECAUSE PEOPLE OPEN BUSINESSES SOMETIMES SO THEY CAN STAY AT HOME WITH THEIR CHILDREN.
SOMETIMES THEY OPEN THESE BUSINESSES SO THAT THEY CAN DIRECT RENT.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER WHEELER.
HANG ON TIGHT, COMMISSIONER FOR OUR SECOND ROUND, UH, VICE CHAIR RUBEN.
UM, I AM GONNA SUPPORT THIS MOTION.
I THINK IT IS A IMPORTANT STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
I HEAR THE CONCERNS ABOUT LOWER GREENVILLE AND BISHOP ARTS LOUD AND CLEAR, AND I THINK THEY'RE TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT.
UM, WHAT I ALSO SEE IS THERE ARE TOO FEW AREAS LIKE THAT ACROSS THE CITY OF DALLAS, WHERE THERE ARE RESTAURANTS AND BARS AND OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE THAT ARE REALLY SHIFT, UH, YOU KNOW, STITCHED INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOODS APPROPRIATELY.
AND MY BELIEF IS THAT OUR REALLY STRICT PARKING REQUIREMENTS PREVENT THESE PLACES FROM DEVELOPING IN TANDEM WITH OUR NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THEY REALLY COULD BE TREMENDOUS ASSETS TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
SO I THINK AA CITYWIDE APPROACH LOWERING PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THESE TWO USES WITHOUT ELIMINATING THEM, GIVEN THE, THE CONCERNS THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE WITH RESPECT TO THEM, IS THE RIGHT APPROACH.
ULTIMATELY, HAVING COMPLETE NEIGHBORHOODS IN OUR CITY IS, IS SO IMPORTANT WHERE THEY'RE NOT JUST A MONOCULTURE OF RESIDENTIAL USES SEPARATED FROM RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL, I, I THINK, IS A, A VERY 20TH CENTURY WAY OF THINKING, OR MAYBE LATE 20TH CENTURY WAY OF THINKING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EARLIER 20TH CENTURY WHERE, YOU KNOW, RESTAURANTS AND RETAIL AND BARS WERE, WERE STITCHED INTO NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND I THINK THAT EASING PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS TO ALLOW MORE WALKABLE BARS AND RESTAURANTS TO BE INTEGRATED ACROSS OUR CITY, UM, IS THE RIGHT CHOICE THERE.
UM, I'LL ADD THAT I ALSO HAVE, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERABLE ANGST ABOUT ANY PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR BARS, CONSIDERING THAT ALCOHOL AND DRIVING DON'T MIX, IN MY VIEW, AND HOPEFULLY MOST OTHER PEOPLE'S VIEWS AROUND THIS HORSESHOE.
BUT IN THE EFFORT TO FIND A COMPROMISE HERE, UM, I THINK ONE PER 200 FOR BARS IS SOMETHING THAT I CAN PROBABLY LIVE WITH.
UH, COMMISSIONER SLEEPER, FOLLOWED BY COMMISSIONER CARPENTER.
UH, I, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THE MOTION.
UM, IT'S NOT AN ANSWER THAT'S GONNA BE PERFECT FOR EVERY SINGLE RESTAURANT AND EVERY LOCATION, BUT THE ONE THING THAT I KNOW FROM, AT LEAST FROM MY EXPERIENCE, IS THAT WE, WE DO SIGNIFICANTLY OVER PARK MOST USES, AND THAT INCLUDES RESTAURANTS AND BARS, AND MORE AND MORE OF THE, UH, POPULATION IS LEARNING TO, UH, TO GET TO RESTAURANTS AND BARS, UM, IN, IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE TAKING UBER, THEY'RE TAKING, THEY MAY TAKE MASS TRANSIT, BUT THEY, THEY, THEY RECOGNIZE THE DANGERS OF DRINKING AND DRIVING.
SO I THINK IN ORDER TO KEEP US FROM BEING STUCK WITH AN AREA WHERE WE HAVE, WHERE WE WEIGH OVER PARK USES, THIS IS ONE THAT COULD BE REDUCED.
AND I THINK THE, THE RECOMMENDATION THAT ONE TO 200 IS A GOOD SOLUTION.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I HAVE, EXCUSE ME.
I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE BROAD BRUSH APPROACH
[01:25:01]
APPLYING ALL ACROSS THE CITY.UM, FOR ONE REASON, BARS AND RESTAURANTS LOVE TO AGGREGATE AND CONGREGATE.
YOU KNOW, ONCE AN AREA IS ESTABLISHED AS AN ENTERTAINMENT AREA, THEN THAT'S, IT ALMOST EXERTS A MAGNETIC ATTRACTION TO OTHERS OF THE SAME KIND.
IT CAUSES A, A, A, A VERY DISPROPORTIONATE, UH, NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREAS.
AND I THINK ONE THAT WE NEED TO, TO KEEP IN MIND, I UNDERSTAND THE APPEAL OF, OF SIMPLICITY, BUT I'M, I'M HAVING DIFFICULTY BALANCING, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE EFFECT IS GOING TO BE.
I UNDERSTAND IN AREAS, UM, THAT WE HEARD ABOUT TODAY, YOU KNOW, DOWNTOWN ELMWOOD AND PARTS OF, UM, SOUTH DALLAS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE BUILDINGS THAT REALLY HAVE NO FUNCTIONAL USE BECAUSE OF LACK OF PARKING.
BUT I THINK ONE THING WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IS THE GENERAL, UM, ELIMINATION OF PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT SEEM TO BE ABOUT TO GO FORWARD FOR OTHER TYPES OF USES, OFFICES, PERSONAL SERVICE, GENERAL RETAIL, THAT SORT OF THING.
THAT IS GOING TO BRING LIFE TO A LOT OF THESE BUILDINGS.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, TO BECOME ACTIVE.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE STRUGGLE I'M HAVING WITH THIS.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HERBERT.
UM, I UNDERSTAND THE STRUGGLES.
UM, DEFINITELY THE SAME FOR ME, UM, FOR MY DISTRICT AND DISTRICTS NEIGHBORING, TO ME, OUR FUTURE PLANS INCLUDE A LOT OF THESE CORRIDORS, UM, OF ENTERTAINMENT, UM, AND COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT.
UM, PART OF THE FEAR IS WE DON'T WANT TO BE AN EXAMPLE OF THE NORTH WHERE EVERYTHING WAS PAVED OVER, RIGHT? WE WANT TO CREATE MORE GREEN SPACE.
WE WANNA BUILD AROUND THE GREEN SPACES AND KEEP THOSE SPACES GREEN.
UM, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, I THINK A REDUCTION OF PARKING FOR SOME OF OUR, UH, BARS AND RESTAURANTS MAY, UM, BE TALKED ABOUT AS WE BUILD OUT NEW DEVELOPMENT, UM, IN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS.
UM, THIS WOULD BE A PROBLEM, RIGHT? PUTTING A A A TURNING A HOME INTO A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR, A COMMERCIAL COFFEE SHOP, FOR INSTANCE.
UM, IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS, PEOPLE ARE CALLING FOR THAT AND WANT IT.
UM, THEN WHEN THEY GET IT, THEY GET THE PARKING AND IT'S LIKE, HOLD ON.
RIGHT? UM, SO I THINK A BLANKET APPROACH MAY NOT BE, UH, THE BEST BET, UM, BUT THAT, UM, MORE DISCUSSION IS NEEDED.
COMMISSIONER CHERNOCK, STEAL FIRST ROUND.
UM, AT, UH, PREVIOUS POINTS OF DISCUSSION, WE HAD, UM, TALKED ABOUT BUILDINGS, BARS UP TO A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE, NOT REQUIRING PARKING.
IS THAT GONNA BE LOOKED AT AT ANY OTHER TIME TODAY IN A MOTION, OR IS THIS SORT OF THE TIME THAT WE'RE POTENTIALLY LOOKING AT IT? IT WOULD BE ANOTHER MOTION.
IT WOULD BE ANOTHER, YES, SIR.
UH, COMMISSIONER NIGHT ANDAL FILED BY COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN.
UM, I DO THINK THIS WOULD BE A BIG COMPROMISE.
UM, I WOULDN'T BE ENTIRELY HAPPY WITH IT.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE SAKE OF COMPROMISE, I, I SEE IT AND I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS.
UM, I WAS PART OF A PROJECT THAT DID SOME SURVEYS OF A COMMUNITY ALONG, UH, MLK ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO.
AND OVERWHELMINGLY, THE RESPONSE OF WHAT PEOPLE WANTED WAS A SIT DOWN RESTAURANT.
THEY WERE TIRED OF DRIVE-THROUGHS.
SO FAST FORWARD FOR VERY, VERY LONG, UM, YEARS, UM, A RESTAURANT HAS FINALLY OPENED UP, AND THERE WAS A YOUNG MAN IN THERE THE OTHER DAY WHO SAID, I GREW UP IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SIT DOWN AND ENJOY A MEAL.
BUT IT ALMOST DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE OF OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
THE RESTAURANT IS 3000 SQUARE FEET.
THEY HAD TO HAVE 30 PARKING SPOTS.
THERE WERE NOT 30 PARKING SPOTS ALONG THAT CORRIDOR.
THERE WAS A CORRIDOR, A COUPLE OTHER BUSINESSES.
SO THE, THE OPTION WAS THEY TAKE ALL THE PARKING, ALLOWING NO OTHER RESTAURANTS OR NO OTHER BUSINESSES TO COME IN.
SO THEY ARE THE ONLY SIT DOWN RESTAURANT, OR YOU START TO TEAR DOWN BUILDINGS, AND THEN YOU PAVE OVER THE GREEN SPACES TO GET TO THOSE 30 PARKING SPACES.
SO I THINK IF WE CAN AT LEAST START TO MAKE A CHANGE, WE WILL GREATLY HELP THESE LOCAL BUSINESSES WHO LIVE IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS WHO WANT TO SURVIVE AND PROVIDE SERVICES AND AMENITIES FOR THE COMMUNITY AROUND THEM, SO THAT MORE PEOPLE CAN HAVE OPTIONS, SUCH AS A SIT DOWN RESTAURANT.
UH, COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN, FOLLOWED BY COMMISSIONER FORAY.
UH, LIKE OTHERS ON THIS COMMISSION, I, I DO HAVE SOME CONCERN, UH, ON THEIR APPROACH.
AND IN THEORY, I AM FOREIGN IN SUPPORT OF REDUCING, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR BARS IN RESTAURANTS.
AND EVERYONE WHO SPOKE IN THE SUPPORT OF, OR AN OPPOSITION THEREOF HAS HAD MERIT.
[01:30:01]
IT GIVES ME PAUSE THAT WE TRY TO APPLY A ONE SIZE FITS ALL.SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO, WE'RE GONNA CREATE WINNERS AND LOSERS AS A PART OF THIS WITHOUT ANY ADDITIONAL, UH, CONSIDERATION.
I THINK THIS BODY IS SMART ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT'S MORE TARGETED TO WHERE, AND THERE'S AREAS THAT, THAT DON'T NEED THE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND LET THE MARKET FORCES GO.
THIS, HISTORICALLY, THE MARKET FORCES HASN'T WORKED OUT FOR THEM, BUT THEN WHEN THE AREAS WHERE THERE'S MARKET FAILURE REPEATEDLY, LET'S TRY TO PUT SOME GUARDRAILS AROUND THAT.
AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND MAYBE CAN BE ADDRESSED IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
UH, BUT I STILL NEED TO CHEW ON WHAT IS THE BEST APPROACH FOR THIS PARTICULAR AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN.
I'M NOT SURE THAT I CAN, UH, SUPPORT IT.
UM, BUT CONCEPTUALLY, I THINK THAT I CAN COME AROUND TO, UH, TO SORT SUPPORTING SOMETHING THAT'S SIMILAR TO IT.
I UNDERSTAND DISTRICT SEVEN HAS DISTRICT NEEDS THAN DISTRICT EIGHT, DISTRICT THREE, DISTRICT FOUR, AND WE'RE JUST DIFFERENTLY SITUATED.
AND WE ALL WANT EFFICIENT LAND USE.
WE ALL WANT THAT, BUT TO IMPOSE THE WILL ON OTHERS WHO MAY NOT WANT THAT OR NEED THAT FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND THEIR RESIDENTS DON'T WANT IT.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ANSWER EITHER.
COMMISSIONER FORZA? ACTUALLY, I, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, IF IT'S OKAY.
UM, UH, FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO CLARIFY, UM, THE CURRENT, UH, CODE IS THAT THE, THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS IS, IS, IS ONE SPACE FOR EVERY 100 SQUARE FEET, AND THAT'S COVERED SPACE, RIGHT? THAT, THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE UNCOVERED LIKE PATIOS OR NON PERMEABLE SURFACES.
I CAN EXPLAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE QUESTION.
SO THE RATIO IS ONE PARKING SPOT REQUIRED FOR EVERY A HUNDRED FEET OF FLOOR AREA.
AND THE DEFINITION OF FLOOR AREA INCLUDES COVERED AREAS.
SO IF YOU HAVE AN OUTDOOR PATIO THAT HAS A COVER, IF THE RAIN DOESN'T GO THROUGH, THAT NEEDS TO BE PARKED.
IF THE RAIN GOES THROUGH, IT DOESN'T MEET THE DEFINITION OF FLOOR AREA AND DOES NOT NEED TO BE PARKED.
SO IF IT'S AN OUTDOOR AREA, BUT IT'S COVERED, IT, IT IS INCLUDED IN THAT REQUIREMENT? YES.
AND, UM, WHAT ARE THE, ARE THERE, UH, WAYS THAT A RESTAURANT TODAY IS TRYING TO OPEN UP AND HAS A, A, A PARTICULAR ISSUE WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT, MAYBE WHERE THEY CAN HAVE SHARED SPACES OR, OR, OR WHERE IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO OPEN AND, AND TO MEET THE FULL REQUIREMENTS THAT EXIST TODAY IN THE CODE? ARE THERE WAYS FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO GET EXCEPTIONS RIGHT NOW, GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, WORKING WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT? THERE ARE SOME ADMINISTRATIVE REDUCTIONS, BUT THERE ARE ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE.
I THINK THE BIGGEST REDUCTION, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT GOES UP TO 20%, BUT IT MAY BE, AND THERE'S ALSO THE OPTION TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
BUT AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW, AND DAVID IS HERE, AND HE CAN EXPLAIN IF BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAS THE LATITUDE TO ACTUALLY, UM, ALLOW AN EXCEPTION FOR THE ENTIRE, I THINK THEY ONLY ARE KEPT BY A PERCENTAGE.
I, I NEED DAVID TO CONFIRM WITH ME.
SO DAVID IS CONFIRMING THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAS THE PURVIEW, AND THEY CAN CONSIDER EXCEPTIONS OR REDUCTIONS UP TO 50%, SO NOT IN TOTALITY, AND THEY NEED TO COME PREPARED WITH PARKING STUDIES OR IF IT'S A VARIANCE OR MORE, IF IT'S A VARIANCE.
SO YOU, YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT THERE ARE WAYS THAT THE BUSINESSES CAN, CAN GET AROUND THE CODE IF THERE ARE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THEY HAVE, AND WE COULD BE FLEXIBLE IN MEETING THEIR NEEDS AS A CITY.
THERE IS AN OPTION TO ASK FOR IT, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THERE IS THE SAME OPTION IS TO COME IN FRONT A CITY PLAN COMMISSION AND ASK FOR A REZONING, AND TO GET AN NOT AN EXCEPTION, TO GET A DIFFERENT PARKING RATIO VIA REZONING.
OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A PROCESS FOR ANY KIND OF CHANGES TO THE CODE.
AND, UM, AND, AND JUST TO UNDERSTAND, HAS, UH, COMMISSIONER CHERLOCK SAID AFTER THIS MOTION IS, IS, IS VOTED
[01:35:01]
ON, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER MOTION TO BASICALLY GET RID OF PARKING MINIMUMS FOR ALL RESTAURANTS THAT ARE UNDER 3,500 SQUARE FEET.THAT'S GONNA BE ANOTHER MOTION THAT'S GONNA BE ON THE TABLE.
IT, I THINK THAT WAS ON THE LIST.
AND, AND I THINK THERE WAS ALSO POSSIBLY ANOTHER MOTION TO PARK UNCOVERED, UH, PATIOS AS WELL.
SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE 'EM, YOU KNOW, ON BOTH SIDES.
UH, FIRST ROUND STILL ANYONE? COMMISSIONER TURLOCK? UM, I'M, I'M A LITTLE BIT CONFLICTED ON THE MOTION.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF IT GOES FAR ENOUGH.
I GUESS THE, THE OTHER, WE CANNOT DO IT, NOT MOVE THE NEEDLE AT ALL.
AND THE OTHER END OF THE EXTREME WOULD BE TO REMOVE PARKING MINIMUMS. UM, I THINK WHAT'S ALSO KIND OF INFLUENCED MY THINKING AS WELL IS THAT WE'RE NOT DOING SOMETHING HERE THAT'S PIONEERING.
THERE'S, THERE'S OTHER CITIES IN THAT ARE CLOSE TO, UH, TO US IN MAKEUP, CLOSE ENOUGH TO US IN MAKEUP THAT WE COULD SEE HOW THIS HAS PLAYED OUT.
UM, OTHER CITIES HAVE DONE THIS GOING BACK ALMOST EIGHT YEARS, AND THEY'VE DONE IT IN STEP CHANGES.
AND I DIDN'T, IN MY RESEARCH, AND I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING THAT, UH, SIGNALED TO ME THAT IT CREATED, UH, THE PROBLEMS, UM, THAT MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT IT WOULD.
SO I UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE, WE'RE ALSO A BODY THAT WORKS TOWARDS SOLUTIONS BY COMPROMISE, AND I COULD PROBABLY GET ON BOARD WITH THIS, UM, BUT I'M STILL NOT SURE IF IT GOES FAR ENOUGH.
I, UH, IF NO ONE ELSE ON THE FIRST ROUND, I'LL, I'LL MAKE A QUICK LITTLE COMMENT, UH, THAT I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION.
UM, UH, FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.
I THINK THE FIRST IS JUST, IT'S, IT'S A KIND OF AN INCREMENTAL APPROACH THAT, UH, A LOT OF US HAVE TALKED ABOUT, UH, AROUND THE HORSESHOE.
UM, ALSO, AS, AS SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED, IT, IT IS A COMPROMISE.
I THINK BASED ON THE LANGUAGE THAT WE RECEIVED FROM, FROM ZAC, UH, THIS IS A, A MORE, UH, CONSTRICTED, UH, LITTLE WRINKLE, UH, THAT COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT HAS INTRODUCED.
AND LASTLY, I THINK FOR ME, UH, ALMOST MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE RATIO IS, IS THE SIMPLICITY OF IT.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, AFTER GOING THROUGH DOZENS OF THESE CODE AMENDMENTS OVER THE YEARS, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK BACK ABOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE POINT THAT COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN BROUGHT UP ABOUT TRYING TO HONE THESE IN TO PARTICULAR AREAS AND GOING BACK AT PARKING AT ZAC, AND EVEN AT THIS BODY.
AND WE TRY SO HARD TO FIND THAT KIND OF SOLUTION.
AND I THINK WE, WE COULD, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK WHAT HAPPENS MOST OF THE TIME IS WE END UP MAKING A PROCESS THAT'S MORE COMPLEX.
UH, AND THEN WHEN WE DO THAT, I THINK NOBODY WINS.
UH, BECAUSE IT CREATES, UH, CONFUSION, IT CREATES A BACKLOG.
AND THEN ALSO IT JUST CREATES, UH, OPPORTUNITIES FOR FOLKS TO KIND OF GAME THE SYSTEM A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE THE WORDS, ONCE THEY'RE ON THE PAGE, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN GET INTERPRETED IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
AND SO, UH, FOR ME, I THINK THIS IS A SIMPLE COMPROMISE AND I'LL BE HAPPY TO SUPPORT IT.
THIS ONE, UM, SECOND ROUND COMMISSIONER KINGSTONE, FOLLOWED BY VICE CHAIR RUBEN.
YEAH, I DON'T, I JUST DON'T THINK, WE'RE I GIVING ENOUGH ATTENTION TO THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES, TO THESE BUSINESSES? SOMEBODY'S LIVED ON A NEIGHBORHOOD WHO'S DEALT WITH THESE FOR 25 YEARS.
I MEAN, THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S DEALT WITH IT LONGER THAN I'VE LIVED THERE.
I'VE LIVED THERE FOR 25 YEARS.
I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND WHAT THESE TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENTS, HOW DISRUPTIVE THEY CAN BE.
AND TO COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S POINT, WHEN YOU GET ONE, YOU GET MANY, AND THIS IS GONNA GO TO THE NEXT MOTION.
I THINK IT, IT, IT, YES, THE LARGER ONES ARE PROBLEMATIC, BUT MANY SMALL ONES ARE ALSO PROBLEMATIC.
AND IF YOU DON'T REQUIRE THEM TO PARK, THEY WILL PARK IN THE STREET.
THEY WILL BLOCK YOUR ALLEYS, THEY WILL BLOCK YOUR DRIVEWAYS.
HAVING A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PARKING HELPS KEEP THESE USES UNDER SOME CHECK AND BALANCE.
AND BECAUSE WE CAN'T, UM, REGULATE THE SALE OF ALCOHOL IN THIS CITY, IT'S ONE OF THE TOOLS WE HAVE TO REGULATE, REGULATE USES IN THESE OLDER BUILDINGS OR IN BUILDINGS IN GENERAL IN THE CITY.
SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN USE.
[01:40:01]
GONNA BE TOLD MY TIME IS UP.UH, VICE CHAIR RUBEN, FOLLOW UP.
SOME VERY QUICK FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR STAFF.
UM, THE ADMINISTRATIVE PARKING REDUCTION BY STAFF, THAT'S NOT AVAILABLE FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS, RIGHT? NO.
IF I MAY, UM, I'M READING VERBATIM.
UH, THE ADMINISTRATIVE REDUCTION APPLIES TO A LIST OF USES, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE, RETAIL, AND PERSONAL SERVICE USES, EXCEPT FOR RESTAURANTS AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE ESTABLISHMENT ESTABLISHMENTS WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE.
SO, UM, THE ALCOHOLIC AND BEVERAGE ESTABLISHMENT, RESTAURANTS AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE ESTABLISHMENTS ARE ACCEPTED FROM THE ADMINISTRATIVE REDUCTION.
AND THEN, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, THE MAXIMUM REDUCTION THERE IS 25%, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
YOU HAVE TO PRESENT A STUDY TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO GET THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.
25 IS THE MAXIMUM FOR RESTAURANTS, AND THEN A VARIANCE TO GET A VARIANCE OF YOUR PARKING STANDARDS, YOU HAVE TO MEET A VERY HIGH STANDARD SHOWING AN UNDUE HARDSHIP, AND IT CAN'T BE SOLELY FOR ECONOMIC PURPOSES.
THERE, THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF, UH, APPLICATIONS THAT AN APPLICANT FOR A RESTAURANT USE MAY OR RETAIL AND PERSONAL SERVICE USE MAY APPLY FOR.
ONE IS A NEXT SPECIAL EXCEPTION, WHICH IS CAPPED AT 25%.
THOSE ARE LIMITED TO APPLICATIONS THAT HAVE A DESIRE TO REDUCE THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
AN ALTERNATIVE IS A VARIANCE, WHICH IT, WHICH CAN GO ALL THE WAY TO A HUNDRED PERCENT FOR THOSE, THE BOARD IS RESPONSIBLE TO EVALUATE THE REQUEST BASED ON HARDSHIP, BUT NOT MERIT.
SO HARDSHIP IS REQUIRED AND THERE'S A LIST OF THOSE ITEMS. OKAY.
AND THEN THE ORDINANCE SPECIFICALLY SAYS YOU CAN'T JUST GET A VARIANCE FOR ECONOMIC REASONS.
THAT IS VERY EXPLICITLY STATED.
UH, COMMISSIONER
I HAVE A TEXT FROM COMMISSIONER WHEELER THAT'S LIKE 10 MINUTES OLD
I DON'T, I THINK SHE MIGHT NOT BE ONLINE.
UH, DID WE LOSE COMMISSIONER WHEELER? I DON'T SEE HER.
SO ONE FOLLOW UP QUESTION, IF I MAY.
UM, MR. NAVAREZ, IS IT CORRECT, YOU'RE READING FROM THE CURRENT CODE NOT IN THE PROPOSED ZO OAC AMENDMENTS.
SO ARE THE SAME RESTRICTIONS STILL IN THE, I I BELIEVE THEY'VE BEEN STRUCK IN THE ZO OAC RECOMMENDATION? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THEY WOULD NEED TO, THERE WOULD BE, NEED A MOTION NEEDED, I GUESS, AN AMENDING MOTION TO RETAIN THOSE.
AND, AND AGAIN, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS CLEAR BECAUSE I, I KNOW WE'VE GOT A LOT OF MOVING PARTS WITH THIS BEFORE.
SO, UM, WHAT I ACTUALLY WANTED TO DO WAS TO MAKE A MOTION TO AMEND THE CURRENT MOTION TO MAINTAIN BAR AT A PARKING MINIMUM OF ONE SPACE PER HUNDRED SQUARE FEET AND MAINTAIN THE PROPOSED REDUCTION FOR RESTAURANTS OF ONE TO 200.
AND I HAVE COMMENTS, IF I HAVE A SECOND.
YOU DO HAVE A SECOND, BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN YOUR, YOUR MOTION? I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO WHAT WE HAVE ON THE TABLE, SO WE'LL SEE.
WELL, AND I GUESS I'M, I'M AMENDING, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BAR AND RESTAURANTS, BOTH GOING TO ONE TO 200, AND I'M SUGGESTING THAT BARS ARE ONE TO 100.
SO KEEP THE MINIMUM AND NO CHANGE TO, I GUESS, THE BASE OF RESTAURANTS AT ONE TO 200.
SO THAT TO ME SEEMED TO BE NOT AN OPPOSITION, BUT I'LL DEFER TO THE CITY ATTORNEY IF THE RULING IS WE'RE GOOD.
AND AGAIN, THIS GOES BACK TO SOME OF THE EARLIER COMMENTS THAT I MADE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY THINK WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS, BUT WANNA RECOGNIZE MY COMMISSIONERS WHO DO SEE THE NEED FOR SIMPLICITY.
AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IN OUR BASE CODE, UM, SIMPLICITY IS HELPFUL, BUT THERE IS A TRUE DIFFERENCE IN HOW BARS, RESTAURANT BARS OPERATE VERSUS RESTAURANTS.
AND I CAN SEE ALLOWING ADDITIONAL FLEXIBILITY FOR RESTAURANTS, UM, WHILE ADDRESSING THE INTENSITY OF THE USE.
I LIVE NEAR BARS, I WALK TO THEM FREQUENTLY.
UM, THEY ARE, THEY JUST FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY.
AND I THINK THIS IS A WAY FOR US TO MAYBE CONSIDER AN INCREMENTAL STEP ON WHERE WE WANT TO.
WE'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT A SLEW OF OTHER USES THAT WOULD LIKELY HAVE NONE.
WE GIVE AN ADDITIONAL INCENTIVE FOR RESTAURANT USES WHILE RECOGNIZING THE INTENSITY OF A BAR THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THAT.
I KNOW WE'VE GOT OTHER MOTIONS THAT ARE COMING AFTER THIS, SO I WOULD LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING THE COMMENTS FROM MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
[01:45:02]
COMMISSIONER.COMMISSIONER HERBERT, ALL THAT.
COMMISSIONER, UH, I'M, I'M SORRY.
COMMISSIONER HERBERT? YEAH, I SECOND THE MOTION MAINLY FOR THE CONVERSATION.
UM, LIKE I SAID, IN IN, IN MY DISTRICTS WHERE THE BARS AND RESTAURANTS ARE, UM, THEY'RE IN AREAS THAT ARE IN KIND OF SHOPPING CENTERS WHO, WHO ARE STILL OVER PARKED.
UM, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN BETWEEN HOW BARS ARE OPERATING AND HOW RESTAURANTS ARE OPERATING.
UM, MY ONLY CONCERN THERE IS WHERE WE HAVE RESTAURANTS WHERE THE MAIN FOCUS IS THE BAR, UM, SLASH PAPA DO'S.
UM, SO OPERATIONS LIKE THOSE STILL GIVE ME SOME PAUSE.
IS IT ALWAYS CLEAR CUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BAR AND A RESTAURANT.
RESTAURANTS HAVE FULL SERVICE BARS AND YOU MIGHT GO TO PAPA'S OR WHEREVER JUST TO DRINK, UH, A BAR COULD SERVE, COULD THEY SERVE APPETIZERS, UH, WHICH MIGHT SERVE AS A MEAL? I MEAN, SO IS IS IT CLEAR CUT? WHAT'S A BAR AND WHAT'S A RESTAURANT? YEAH.
FOR THE PURPOSES OF ISSUING A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY PER OUR CODE, IT IS A BAR IS, UH, AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT GETS AT LEAST 75% REVENUE FOR, FOR THE SALES OF ALCOHOL AS OPPOSED TO A RESTAURANT WHO'S UNDER.
UM, IS NOT JUST THAT YOU HAVE A KITCHEN AND YOU'RE SERVING SOME FOOD, IS ALSO HOW MUCH OF YOUR REVENUE DERIVES FROM THE SALE OF ALCOHOL.
NOW, COMMISSIONER WHEELER, PROBABLY COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, I WOULD, I APOLOGIZE IF SORRY ABOUT THAT TO MENTION, UM, BARS ARE ALLOWED SUBJECT TO SUP, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED BY.
RIGHT? SO THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
AND I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED THIS MORNING BY COMMISSIONER HAMPTON AND THE SUP IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PLACE HOURS OF OPERATION AND EVEN IF NEED BE, ASK FOR MORE PARKING.
SO, UM, I HAVE A GR A GRATEFUL, A A MAJOR PAUSE BECAUSE OFTENTIMES, SO I, I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO SEPARATE RESTAURANTS AND BARS, BUT DEFINITELY RESTAURANTS, SOMETIMES A RESTAURANT, UH, TAKE OUT ONLY RESTAURANT IS EVEN HAVE, HAS TO HAVE ONE TO 100 WHEN NO ONE IS EVER GONNA SIT IN THERE BECAUSE, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE A FULL, A FULL SERVICE RESTAURANT.
OR IF YOU HAVE ONE TABLE, ONE CHAIR, IT MAKES YOU A RESTAURANT.
I, I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS AND, AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO CAN'T EVEN OPEN IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS.
ONE TO 200 IS NOT A MAJOR DIFFERENCE.
IT IS NOT A MAJOR DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY IN THE SOUTHERN SECTOR.
I, I, I BEG MY, THE, THE, UM, COMMISSIONERS THAT, THAT ARE IN THE SOUTHERN SECTOR WHEN THEY COME TO BARS, I CAN UNDERSTAND AND MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE A SEPARATION, BUT THE, A RESTAURANT THAT IS PRIMARY OR RESTAURANT, THE REASON THAT WE DON'T HAVE THEM IN A LOT OF OUR AREAS IS BECAUSE WE ARE LANDLOCKED.
AND THAT ONE TO 200, IF THAT, IF AREAS THAT HAVE, HAVE PDS WOULD LIKE TO PUT IN THERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A PD BECAUSE IT'S A BAR AREA AND THEY WANT TO MAKE IT HAVE SOME, SOME TYPE OF CONTROL OVER THEIR PARKING.
BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GENERAL CITY, WHEN WE DRIVE THROUGH OUR CITY IN THESE AREAS THAT, THAT CURRENTLY HAVE MORE PARKING THAN THEY EVER USE, EVEN IF IT, IF THEY HAVE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT WE COULD HAVE MORE RESTAURANTS, RESTAURANTS BRING RETAIL, UM, IT, IT CAUSES PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SHOP.
I CAN'T EVEN GO, I CAN NAME PROBABLY HOW MANY RESTAURANTS IN SOUTH DALLAS RIGHT NOW, AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT I KNOW FOR A FACT IT'S OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS IF ANYONE IS HERE FROM OUR, THAT'S REPRESENTING, UM, EVEN OUR AREA PLAN THAT HAS BEEN A CALL FROM PAUSE THAT OUR BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BECAUSE THE RESTAURANT OWNERS CAN'T OPEN IN THE, IN, IN, IN, IN, IN AREAS LIKE SOUTH DALLAS THAT SHOULD BE BENEFITING, BENEFITING FROM HAVING THAT, THAT HAVING RESTAURANTS AND, AND PLACES TO SIT DOWN AND
[01:50:01]
EAT.I HAVE TO GO ACROSS TOWN TO GET SOMETHING TO EAT THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THE NORMAL, UM, MCDONALD'S OR, OR CHECK IN THE BOX.
THE ONE 200 IS NOT A BIG, UM, CHANGE.
I UNDERSTAND SAYING ABSOLUTELY NO PARKING, BUT ONE TO 200 IS NOT GONNA CAUSE THAT MUCH CAUSE OR PAUSE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.
UH, IT'S RETAIL STORES THAT ACTUALLY HAS MORE, THE RETAIL STORES ARE ONE 200 THAT HAVE MORE TRAFFIC OFF SOME TIME THAN THE RESTAURANTS.
UH, BEFORE I GO TO COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, UH, QUESTION FOR STAFF OR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.
CAN, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SUMMARIZE WHAT'S ON THE TABLE VERSUS WHAT'S ON THE BOOKS? WHAT IS CURRENT CODE AND WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT OR UNFRIENDLY AMENDMENT, UH, GONNA CHANGE OR NOT CHANGE? SO AS FAR AS THE MOTIONS, THIS IS LAURA MORRISON, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
AS FAR AS THE MOTIONS, WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER HAMPTON THAT AMENDS COMMISSIONER HOUSE RIGHTS MOTION TO KEEP BARS AT ONE SPACE PER 100 SQUARE FEET.
UM, BUT THEN, UH, FOR RESTAURANTS IT WOULD BE ONE SPACE PER 200 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM THE ZAC RECOMMENDATION OF NO PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND CORRECT.
THE CURRENT CODE AS IT STANDS TODAY IS, UH, ONE SPACE PER 100 SQUARE FEET FOR BOTH OF THOSE USES.
I THINK WE'RE STILL ON THE FIRST ROUND FOR THIS ONE FOR COMMISSIONER KINGSTON.
WHILE I LIKE THE ATTEMPT AT A RESOLUTION, I'M GONNA HOLD STEADY IT, MY BELIEF THAT WE SHOULD MAINTAIN BARS AND RESTAURANTS AT ONE TO 100.
UM, I UNDERSTAND ALL TOO WELL WHAT IT MEANS TO INVEST A RIGHT IN PROPERTY.
UM, AND I THINK AS WE MOVE THROUGH OTHER CODE CHANGES WHERE WE ARE ELIMINATING PARKING MINIMUMS FOR OTHER USES, WE'RE GONNA SOLVE SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS OF AGING SHOPPING CENTERS.
FOR EX FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU SAY, WELL, THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER USES LIKE, UH, PET SITTERS OR DOG GROOMERS OR GROCERY STORES OR DRY CLEANERS WHERE WE'RE NOT GONNA REQUIRE PARKING MINIMUMS ANYMORE.
ALL OF A SUDDEN THE SHOPPING CENTER AT MOCKINGBIRD AND ABRAMS CAN HAVE THE BODEGA WITH A RESTAURANT, CO CAN HAVE THE PATIO AT WHATEVER THAT RESTAURANT WAS HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE YOU'VE FREED UP ALL THAT PARKING AT THAT SHOPPING CENTER.
AND THE SAME IS GONNA BE TRUE ON LOWER GREENVILLE IF WE ALLOW, UM, A RELAXATION IN ALL THESE OTHER USES, BUT MAINTAIN A STRICTER, UH, PARKING REGULATION FOR OUR HIGHEST INTENSITY USES.
WE'RE PROVIDING THAT PROTECTION FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHILE ALLOWING FLEXIBILITY FOR ALL OF THESE OTHER PROPERTIES IN ALL OF THESE OTHER AREAS.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, ENCOURAGING LANDLORDS TO DO MIX OF USES TO DO PROVIDE THOSE MIXES LIKE WE HAVE ON LOWER GREENVILLE TO CREATE THOSE WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE YOU HAVE NEIGHBORHOODS SERVING USES LIKE DRY CLEANERS, PET STORES, UM, RETAIL SHOPS, BOUTIQUES, AND BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
THE WAY THAT GREENVILLE GOT TO BE THE WAY IT IS, IS BECAUSE IT'S HEMMED IN BY ITS PARKING.
IF YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN GET RID OF THAT, THEN YOU ENCOURAGE THE LANDLORDS TO REPLACE THOSE BOUTIQUES WITH RESTAURANTS BECAUSE THEN THEY CAN GET A PERCENTAGE OF THE RENTS, WHICH ARE HIGHER FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND HOW THESE COMMERCIAL LEASES OPERATE, WHEN YOU GET RID OF THE PARKING MINIMUMS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS, YOU ARE JUST ENCOURAGING THE DEMISE OF SO MANY OF THE SMALLER BUSINESSES BECAUSE THE LANDLORDS WILL RAISE THOSE RENTS AND THEY WILL GET RID OF ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SAY YOU WANT IN THESE COMMUNITIES.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER ON THE AMENDMENT,
I'M NOT SURE I'M DIRECTLY DISCUSSING THE AMENDMENT, BUT YOU CAN STOP ME IF I'M NOT.
BUT TRYING TO, UM, RECONCILE THE, THE FLOOD OR FAMINE ISSUE, HAS THERE EVER BEEN ANY CONSIDERATION GIVEN TO SEVERELY REDUCING THE REQUIREMENT FOR RESTAURANTS IF IT IS NOT LOCATED WITHIN
[01:55:01]
LET'S SAY, 500 FEET OF ANOTHER RESTAURANT? THAT WOULD SEEM LIKE IN, I'VE BEEN TO CONVENTIONS, YOU KNOW, ZONING CONVENTIONS WHERE THEY SAY WHAT'S NEEDED TO STABILIZE LOWER INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS OR THINGS THAT OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS TAKE FOR GRANTED.A RESTAURANT WHERE YOU CAN SIT DOWN AND HAVE A MEAL, YOU KNOW, A GYM, A DAYCARE, A A A HAIR SALON, THAT SORT OF THING.
IT WOULD SEEM TO ME IF WE, IT WOULD SOLVE, I I KNOW THERE ARE AREAS IN WEST DALLAS WHERE THERE'S NOT A, THERE'S NOT A SIT DOWN RESTAURANT.
THERE ARE VAST AREAS IN, IN SOUTH DALLAS WHERE, AND, AND TO, UH, ADDRESS SOMEWHAT WHAT COMMISSIONER KINGSTON'S TALKING ABOUT WITH, WITH, UH, WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF, OF, UM, YOU KNOW, DOING AWAY WITH THESE, UH, MIXES WHERE YOU HAVE WALKABLE MIXED USE BY, UH, CUTTING THE, UM, REQUIREMENT FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
IT, YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGES LANDLORDS TO, YOU KNOW, TO CRAMM IN MORE BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
IF WE DID LOOK AT SOMETHING WHERE ARE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NO PARKING REQUIRED FOR, UM, A RESTAURANT THAT WAS FARTHER AWAY THAN 500 FEET FROM ANOTHER RESTAURANT.
ANYWAY, JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE AS AN IDEA, AS POSSIBLY A WAY TO ADDRESS THE, THE DESERTS THAT DON'T HAVE ANY.
AND THEN THE AREAS, IT WOULD MAKE IT BETTER FOR ONE, BUT NOT MAKE IT WORSE FOR THE OTHERS THAT ALREADY HAVE CONCENTRATIONS.
UH, COMMISSIONER HARA FIRST ROUND, UM, SPEAKING REALLY RELATIVE TO THE AMENDMENT AND TO THE, THE ORIGINAL MOTION, UM, ONE TO 100, ONE TO 200 I KNOW ARE SORT OF ABSTRACT TERMS. AND SO I'D LIKE TO TRY TO PUT, UH, AN ILLUSTRATION TO YOU ON THAT.
AS A, AS AN ARCHITECT AND A PLANNER, WHEN WE SAY YOU HAVE TO PARK AT ONE TO 100, WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS IT IS ILLEGAL TO OPEN A BAR OR RESTAURANT UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE FOUR TIMES THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF ASPHALT AS YOU DO USABLE SPACE.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT AMOUNTS TO.
AND SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT FOR A GROSS SITE AREA, IN ORDER TO HAVE A RESTAURANT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE 80% OF THAT PAVED TO SERVE THE 20% OF USABLE AREA.
AND SO IN THAT SCENARIO, THE, THE PARKING IS NOT SERVING THE USE.
THE USE IS SERVING THE PARKING, AND WE NEED TO BUILD A CITY WHERE PARKING IS OUR SERVANT, NOT OUR SLAVE OR OUR MASTER.
AND SO, UM, GOING TO ONE TO 200 STILL MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWICE AS MUCH ASPHALT AS USABLE AREA.
IT'S JUST GOING FROM A FACTOR OF FOUR TO A FACTOR OF TWO.
I THINK TO MY COLLEAGUES THAT HAVE SAID, MAYBE THIS ORDINANCE DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.
I'M COMPLETELY SYMPATHETIC TO THAT POINT OF VIEW, BUT, UM, OUTTA RESPECT FOR SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE'VE BEEN HAVING HERE, I THINK ONE TO 200 IS A, IS A MARVELOUS PLACE TO LAND ACROSS THE BOARD, AND WHICH CONVENIENTLY IS THE HISTORIC, UM, RATIO FOR RETAIL.
AND SO IT JUST TENDS TO PUT THOSE ON EQUAL FOOTING AND, UM, I THINK PROVIDE A BETTER OUTCOME, UH, FOR LANDLORDS AND FOR RESIDENTS.
IN TERMS OF, OF MORE AMENITIES.
UM, THE, THE, THE NOTION OF PROTECTING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS IS SOMETHING WE'RE ALL COMMITTED TO AND WE ALL WANNA DO, BUT IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DEFINE OR QUANTIFY.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN OUR RUSHED AT TIMES TO PROTECT NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT WE DO IS WE PREVENT NEIGHBORHOODS OR WE DISALLOW NEIGHBORHOODS FROM HAVING A, A, A VIBRANT MIXED USE CHARACTER.
WE DISALLOW THEM FROM HAVING A 700 FOOT BAR ON THE CORNER.
WE DISALLOW THEM FROM HAVING A 1200 SQUARE FOOT, UH, GROCER, BODEGA, WHATEVER.
UM, WE, WE TAKE AWAY AS MUCH FROM THE NEIGHBORHOODS AS WE GIVE TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND SOME OF THESE IN SOME OF THESE ARGUMENTS.
AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ADJACENT USES AND WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL.
COMMISSIONER HOUSE WRIGHT, UH, VERY BRIEFLY FOR ME, FOR FIRST ROUND, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION.
I'LL, I'LL BE SUPPORTING THE ORIGINAL MOTION MADE BY COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT.
UH, AND YOU KNOW, JUST INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT AND I, UH, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT COUNTERINTUITIVE THAT WE REQUIRE PARKING FOR BARS.
[02:00:02]
UH, IT JUST, THERE'S, ON A CERTAIN LEVEL, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.UH, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, UH, WE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF CITY NOW THAT I THINK, UH, THE, THE ZAC RECOMMENDATION IN TERMS OF BARS, I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY FOR THAT.
WE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF CITY FOR LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF REASONS THAT WE WON'T GET INTO TODAY.
AND SO I THINK THIS IS JUST, AGAIN, THAT SMALL INCREMENTAL MOVE HERE, UH, TO MOVE INTO THE FUTURE, TO MOVE INTO THE KIND OF CITY THAT I THINK JUST ORGANICALLY WE'RE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.
AND THIS IS JUST ONE LITTLE STEP FORWARD IN THAT, IN THAT DIRECTION.
UH, SO I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE, UH, THE AMENDMENT, BUT WOULD SUPPORT THE ORIGINAL MOTION.
AGAIN, NOT A STATEMENT, BUT A QUESTION.
IF WE FAIL TO PASS EITHER OF THESE AMENDMENTS, THEN CORRECT ME, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEN THE ORIGINAL ZAC RE RECOMMENDATION IS WHAT THEN STANDS, WHICH IS GETTING RID OF PARKING MINIMUMS, PERIOD.
UM, THEN I, I, I WILL BE SUPPORTING BOTH THE AMENDMENT, UH, UH, THE, THE, THAT, THAT COMMISSIONER HAMPTON HAS OFFERED, AS WELL AS ALSO THE ORIGINAL AMENDMENT THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER HAMPTON HAS OFFERED.
UH, COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT HAS OFFERED, UH, BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT I FEEL THAT THE ALTERNATIVE IS WORSE.
UM, I, I, I DO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO KEEP PARKING MINIMUMS IN PLACE, SO THEREFORE I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTIONS.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS, COMMISSIONERS BEFORE WE TAKE A RECORD VOTE? UH, COMMISSIONER WHEELER, SECOND ROUND.
UM, UM, I, I, I, SO THANK COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT, UM, FOR EXPLAINING WHAT, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
LITERALLY, UM, FROM THE ONE TO 100 TO ONE TO 200, I I'M SOMEONE THAT MY SPECIALTY IS COMMERCIAL CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCIES.
I I HELP THAT SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, UM, WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THEM INTO THAT.
AND I CAN TELL YOU IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT DON'T HAVE THAT MANY RESTAURANTS, AND WE HAVE SOME BARS, THE HISTORICAL BARS THAT HAVE TO HAVE SUVS.
SO I'M NOT REALLY WORRIED ABOUT ARE THEY GONNA GET OUTTA HAND.
BUT WHAT I DO HAVE, BECAUSE RESTAURANT PROPERTY OWNERS ARE LIMITED BY THEIR PARKING.
I HAVE A BUNCH OF BEAUTY SHOPS.
I AM A FIR I AM MY FIRST JOB, FIRST THING I EVER DID, THE FIRST LICENSE I EVER GOT IS A COSMETOLOGIST LICENSE.
BUT WE HAVE, WE HAVE IN THE SOUTHERN SECTOR AND MOST URBAN PLACES IN AMERICA, THERE IS BEAUTY SHOPS, THERE IS BARBERSHOPS, THERE IS TOBACCO STORES, CONVENIENCE STORES.
THAT'S, WE GET THE, WE GET BECAUSE OF THESE TYPE OF PARKING
UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY, BEFORE WE TAKE A RECORD VOTE, JUST TO SUMMARIZE, THE, THE ORIGINAL MOTION MADE BY COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT WAS TO GO TO ONE TO 200 ON BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
THE AMENDMENT MADE BY COMMISSIONER HAMPTON IS TO SPLIT THOSE, KEEP THE ONE TO 100 FOR BARS AND GO TO ONE TO 200 ON RESTAURANTS.
WE'LL TAKE A RECORD VOTE PLEASE.
SO, SO THE, THE VOTE, PARDON ME? YES.
THIS IS A VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT TO GO ONE TO 100 ON BARS.
ONE TO 200 ON RESTAURANT? CORRECT.
SO COMMISSIONERS, WE GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION.
UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? OKAY, LET'S TAKE A RECORD VOTE.
[02:05:01]
DISTRICT 14? NO.WHAT HAPPENED TO NUMBER FOUR? WHICH WAS THAT MOTION FOR THE ONE TO 200? YES.
THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE MOTION FOR ONE TO 200 FOR BOTH, UH, BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
NOW WE GO TO NUMBER THREE, DON'T WE? I MEAN, TECHNICALLY THE FLOOR'S JUST OPEN.
SO WE COULD GO TO NUMBER THREE NOW, OR, UH, ENTERTAIN SOME OTHER LANGUAGE.
SORRY, I CAN'T READ HIS, IT WAS THROUGH.
UM, COMMISSIONERS HAVE A REQUEST TO HAVE LUNCH, MR. CHAIR, WHERE? YEAH.
COULD I PROPOSE A WORKING LUNCH? SURE.
SO WE NOT CAN GET OUTTA HERE AT A REASONABLE HOUR.
WHY NOT? LET'S GO, LET'S TAKE, UH, 15 MINUTES AND GO GET OUR LUNCH AND COME RIGHT BACK AT, UH, 11.
WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD WITH OUR LUNCH.
AND BY MY COUNT WE ARE ON NUMBER THREE, FOUR.
WE JUST DID THREE NUMBER FOUR.
UH, AGAIN, IN, UH, MATTER OF DCA 1 9 0 DASH ZERO TWO, I PROPOSE THAT WE AMEND THE, UM, ZAC RECOMMENDATION WITH ITEM NUMBER FOUR ON OUR LIST.
THAT PARKING MINIMUMS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS ONLY APPLY TO BUILDING AREA OVER 3,500 SQUARE FEET.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SHERLOCK, FOR YOUR SECOND, UH, DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS? YES.
COMMISSIONER CHER? UH, YEAH, I SECOND THE MOTION.
I, I THINK THIS IS, UM, SOMETHING THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AND, AND, AND, UH, AN ISSUE THAT WE HAVE HEARD IN OUR DISTRICT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, UM, THAT THAT IS, UH, NEEDED FOR SOME RELIEF.
UM, MANY OF THE AREAS OF OUR, OUR CITY THAT, THAT GET THE MOST ATTENTION FOR THEIR SENSE OF, UH, SENSE OF PLACE ARE SOME OF THE OLDER AREAS OF EAST DALLAS BISHOP ARTS, WHERE WE HAVE EXISTING BUILDING STOCK, UH, AND A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESSES THAT END UP GETTING PLACED INTO OLDER HOMES AND SMALLER COMMERCIAL SPACES THAT WERE BUILT IN A DIFFERENT ERA.
UH, I THINK AT ONE POINT THE, UM, BISHOP ARTS AREA HAD THE NUMBER ONE STARTUPS IN THE ENTIRE METROPLEX OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESSES.
AND, UM, SO IT'S DEFINITELY THOSE, THOSE SMALL BOUTIQUE ONE-OFF BUSINESSES AS OPPOSED TO LARGE COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES ARE SOMETHING THAT WE VALUE VERY MUCH IN OUR DISTRICT.
AND, AND I KNOW THAT BASED ON ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO THE, THE, TO OUR DISTRICT FOR, TO USE THESE PLACES ALSO VALUE THEM A LOT.
I'D LIKE TO SEE, UH, THE BISHOP ARTS AND PLACES LIKE LOWER GREENVILLE ACTUALLY NOT BE QUITE AS UNIQUE AS THEY ARE.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM PROLIFERATE THROUGH THE REST OF THE, THE CITY.
AND I THINK THAT THIS GOES, UM, TO, TO, UH, THE HEART OF, OF AN ISSUE THAT PLAGUES A LOT OF STARTUP BUSINESSES AS THIS PARKING OF, OF, UH, SPACES THAT ARE SMALLER THAN LARGE COMMERCIAL SPACES THAT ARE OVER 3,500.
UM, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DEBATE ON WHETHER IT SHOULD BE 5,000.
I THINK WE HEARD FROM MR. HEEL THIS MORNING THAT THEY USED A FIGURE OF 10,000, UH, IN THE, IN, IN THE, UM, UH, DRAWING A BLANK.
UM, SO, UH, THAT'S SOME OF THE REASON WHY I SUPPORT THIS.
I HOPE OTHER PLAN COMMISSIONERS DO AS WELL.
WHAT COMMISSIONER HAMPTON? I UNDERSTAND THE THOUGHT BEHIND, UM, THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE AND, AND I THINK WHAT IT'S TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT WE'VE HEARD FROM A NUMBER OF FOLKS, UM, I KNOW WE HAVE A CONDITION FURTHER DOWN ON OUR LIST THAT STARTS TO TALK ABOUT OUR HISTORIC STRUCTURES, AND THAT'S REALLY HOW THIS EXCEPTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN MODELED AS A WAY TO ADDRESS BUILDING STOCK.
UM, THIS I THINK, IS MORE BROADLY STRUCTURED AND I THINK THE SIZE OF IT HAS A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS, UM, GREATER
[02:10:01]
THAN WHAT WE TYPICALLY HAVE CONSIDERED OR REVIEWED.UM, I, IT JUST GIVES ME PAUSE ON THE SIDE OF THIS.
I KNOW WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF TESTIMONY IN OUR OTHER EARLIER MEETINGS THAT THE CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF 3,500 SQUARE FEET, EVEN 2,500 SQUARE FEET, IS JUST GREATER THAN SOMETHING THAT I'M COMFORTABLE WITH.
UM, I COULD PERHAPS SUPPORT A LOWER NUMBER, UM, BUT AS, AS IT'S PROPOSED, I'M, I'M NOT ABLE TO SUPPORT THE MOTION.
UH, COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, WAS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION GIVEN TO IMPOSING AN RAR, UM, REQUIREMENT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS? DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN RIR? RIGHT.
WE WERE TRYING TO LIKE REWIND.
UM, I THINK THAT WE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS IN THE BEGINNING REGARDING BUFFERS, BUT IT WAS FOR A DIFFERENT, UM, USE I JUST A SECOND.
YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT ATTACHING PARKING REQUIREMENTS TO THE RAR UM, REVIEW.
SO IF SOMETHING UNDERGOES AN RAR REVIEW, THEN IT WOULD ALSO HAVE SOME SORT OF DIFFERENT PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
NO, THIS AMENDMENT IS, THERE WOULD BE NO PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR BUILDINGS UNDER 3,500 SQUARE FEET.
MY QUESTION WAS, WAS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION GIVEN TO INCLUDING AN RAR REQUIREMENT FOR GETTING A PERMIT IN THAT SITUATION? OKAY.
I, I, UM, MEGAN WEER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR.
UM, SO THE RESTAURANT USE ALREADY REQUIRES AN RER.
SO WE WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY THERE IF A NEW RESTAURANT'S BEING PERMITTED AND IS EXEMPT FROM PARKING.
UNLESS I'M MISUNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION.
DOES A RESTAURANT ALWAYS REQUIRE AN RAR? I BELIEVE IN MOST INSTANCES, YES.
BUT WHAT ARE THE INSTANCES WHEN A RESTAURANT DOESN'T REQUIRE AN RAR? I'D HAVE TO LOOK AND GET BACK.
WELL, IF IT DOESN'T HAVE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY, IT WOULDN'T BE, IF IT, IF IT WAS, UM, YOU LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW THE ANSWER, I CAN GO CHECK AND GET BACK WITH YOU.
BUT I BUT THERE IS AN RER REQUIREMENT CURRENTLY THAT COULD BE UTILIZED TO ADDRESS ISSUES THAT OF INCOMPATIBILITY.
I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN RAR REVIEW FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS ONLY.
I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHEN ARE THE OTHERS.
SO AN RER FOR RESTAURANT IS NOT REQUIRED IN THE CA DISTRICTS, UM, OR IN THE URBAN CORRIDOR DISTRICTS.
ARE THERE PDS WHERE IT'S EXEMPTED? I DUNNO THAT ANSWER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
UH, DAVID MAY WANNA CHIME IN ON THAT.
I MEAN, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY SINGLE PD TO DETERMINE THAT.
SAY THAT KEEP, I'LL LOOK IN 8 42.
BUT THE DEFAULT, THE LOWER GREENVILLE ONE THAT DEFAULTS TO CR SO I'M ASSUMING THAT IT WILL PICK UP THE RAR AND YES.
PER CODE, THE R-A-R-D-I-R IS REQUIRED IN FOR RESTAURANTS IN CR RR WHAT MEGAN SAID.
AND I'LL LOOK P IN, UH, LOWER GREENFIELD PD.
WELL, I'M JUST THINKING THAT, YOU KNOW, BEFORE YOU DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THERE SHOULD BE SOME PROTECTIONS FOR COMMUNITIES AND R-A-R-S-U-P MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, A TOOL THAT YOU COULD USE MS. WAER.
DID YOU, DID YOU NEED MORE TIME TO LOOK ANYTHING ELSE UP THAT YOU SAW? NO, I MEAN, THAT, THAT IS AN EXISTING TOOL THAT'S ON THE BOOKS TODAY.
SO STAFF HAS TAKEN THE POSITION THAT THE PD ALONG HENDERSON AVENUE DOESN'T REQUIRE RAR REVIEW.
SO I'M JUST THINKING THERE'S PROBABLY OTHERS.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A, THAT'S ONE OF THE TYPES OF NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF BARS AND RESTAURANTS.
SO IF THERE ARE OTHERS, IF ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO PARK IT 3,500 SQUARE FEET, IF YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF THOSE, THEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES? AND SHOULD, SHOULD THERE BE SOME IMPOSITION FOR ENSURING THERE IS AN RER REVIEW REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PDS OR
[02:15:01]
WHATEVER SAY, BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S A, THAT'S A GAME CHANGER FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES.COMMISSIONER, I'LL LOOK IN THOSE TWO PDS RIGHT NOW AND I'LL READ THE RAR SECTION AND SEE IF, AND OBVIOUSLY I'LL TALK TO THE ATTORNEY IF THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY.
AND TALK TO THE ATTORNEYS TO SEE IF A MOTION CAN BE MADE TO BASICALLY ADD INTO THE RAR SOME LANGUAGE TO, IN RESPECT TO PARKING COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, DO YOU HAPPEN TO, IS IT 4 62? DO YOU KNOW THE PD NUMBER? PD 4 62? I BELIEVE THAT'S NOT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT.
WE CAN, WE'LL, CAN, CAN I ASK IF THAT'LL ADD PDS? UH, EIGHT 30 AND 4 67.
WHICH ARE THE PDS NEAR BISHOP HARTS TO THAT LIST TOO? SO THE, TO THE RESEARCH, OKAY.
RAR IS NOT ALWAYS TRIGGERED ON A RESTAURANT UNLESS IT HAS A DRIVE THROUGH THE MAJORITY.
THE MAJORITY TIME WHEN, AND I GET QUITE A BIT OF COS OR RAR DOES NOT TRIGGER UNLESS THERE'S A DRIVE THROUGH COMPONENT TO IT.
UM, UNLESS IT'S, IT'S SPECIFICALLY IN A PD THAT REQUIRES IT.
BUT FROM THE ONES THAT I GO GET ON A REGULAR BASIS, VERY SELDOM AM I EVER TRIGGERED A RAR UNLESS THERE'S A DRIVE THROUGH COMPONENT.
MAY, MAY I SPEAK TO THAT PLEASE? UM, C COMMISSIONER WHEELER, I BELIEVE YOU MIGHT BE THINKING OF A-D-I-R-A-D-I-R IS, UM, APPLICABLE TO DRIVE THROUGH FACILITIES TO MAKE SURE THEIR STACKING IS OCCURRING ON SITE AND NOT IMPEDING THE RIGHT OF WAY.
HAVE SOME THAT SAYS THAT, THAT THAT IS RESIDE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENT, BUT IT'S, IT COULD BE BOTH.
BUT FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE RESTAURANTS THAT I GO GET COS FOR, I I, I HAVEN'T BEEN ASKED TO GET THAT AT ALL UNLESS THEY WERE IN A PD THAT, THAT ACTUALLY ASKED FOR.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, CAN WE GET AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT THE, UM, PARAMETERS OF THE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY REVIEW ARE? YES.
I WOULD NEED TO GO GRAB MY CODE TO LOOK AT THE CRITERIA THAT'S LISTED, BUT WE CAN GET BACK WITH YOU ON THAT.
CAN I PROPOSE THEN THAT WE DROP THIS AMENDMENT FOR NOW AND COME GO TO ANOTHER AMENDMENT AND UNTIL WE, WE COULD, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T REQUIRE QUESTIONS FROM STAFF.
SO
HOW MANY PDS ARE WE RESEARCHING? I THINK IT WAS THREE FEW.
LET ME LOOK IN THE RAR AND SEE IF SARAH MASERA MAY DID A LOT OF RAR REVIEWS.
I CAN SPEAK ON DI BUT WE DON'T BOTHERED ME.
I PROMISE YOU THAT I GOT THREE DOGS CHAIR.
WELL, PLEASE, WHILE WE'RE KILLING TIME YES, I CAN SPEAK ON DIR.
WHICH IS THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT REVIEW, PLEASE.
COMMISSIONER WHEELER WAS ALLUDING TO WHAT WE REVIEW FOR DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITIES.
UM, THE DRIVE, THE DIR APPLIES TO DRIVE THROUGH FACILITIES IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS.
AND ESSENTIALLY A DIR IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW.
AND FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UM, VERY TRAFFIC RELATED, UH, VEHICULAR TRAFFIC RELATED.
WE, WE, WE MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S A MITIGATION PLAN FOR IF AND WHEN, UH, A QUEUE BACKS UP ONTO THE STREET.
SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S A PRACTICAL EXERCISE WHERE WE WANT TO SEE A DOCUMENT THAT OTHER DEPARTMENTS CAN TAKE TO A STORE OPERATOR, SOMEONE WHO'S VERY HAPPY TO SEE THEIR TRAFFIC BACKING UP ON THE STREET, BECAUSE THAT MEANS THEIR BUSINESS IS DOING WELL.
WE SHOW, THE STAFF SHOWS UP AND THEY SHOW THE DOCUMENT THAT WE PREPARED AT PERMITTING.
THEY SPEAK TO THE STORE MANAGER AND THEY FIGURE OUT A WAY TO PLACE CONES OR SIGNS, UH,
[02:20:01]
EVEN CLOSE DRIVEWAYS IN ORDER TO MITIGATE, UH, WHAT COULD BE PERCEIVED AS A, UM, A MITIGATION EFFORT.UH, THAT'S DIRA DEVELOPMENT IMPACT REVIEW.
IT'S ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW OF OPERATIONS FOR A PROPOSAL DRIVE THROUGH FACILITY RAR.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THANK YOU, DAVID.
SO AN RAR IS TRIGGERED, UH, WHEN THE LOT IS ADJACENT OR DIRECTLY ACROSS A STREET THAT'S, UH, LESS THAN 64 FEET IN RIGHT AWAY OR AN ALLEY.
UH, AND AN EXISTING PROPOSED BUILDING OR STRUCTURE ON THE LOT IS WITHIN 330 FEET OF A LOT IN AN RDTH AND CH H DISTRICT.
UM, NOW THE RAR REVIEW IS THE SAME, A STAFF LEVEL REVIEW AND YOU'RE SPO UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT AIP PLAN AND THE SIP PLAN.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO SHOW ALL EXISTING AND PROPOSED POINTS OF INGRESS, EGRESS, UH, BUILDING ENTRANCES, EXIT SERVICE AREAS AND WINDOWS.
UM, LOCATION TYPE OF FENCING, SCREENING, BUFFERING, UM, STORM WATER, UM, ILLUMINATION, SO LIGHTING ON THE SIDE, THE LOCATION, UH, OF PROPOSED SIGNS, UH, WHAT ELSE? LOUD SPEAKERS AND SOUND AMPLIFIERS.
SO BASICALLY THEY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING THAT WOULD OVER SPILL INTO A, INTO A RESIDENTIAL PORTION IS ORIENTED AWAY, UM, AND OTHER MECHANICAL, UH, EQUIPMENT CAPABLE OF PRODUCING HIGH LEVEL NOISE AND CONTAIN ANY OTHER REASONABLE AND PERTINENT INFORMATION THAT THE DIRECTOR DETERMINES TO BE NECESSARY.
SO IT'S, UM, IT'S AN ADDITIONAL LEVEL OF REVIEW THAT IS DONE WITH THE ZONING TEAM, UM, AND PERMITTING.
AND IT'S TRIGGERED BY A DISTANCE FROM SINGLE FAMILY TYPE OF DISTRICT.
AND YOU JUST NEED TO SUBMIT A SITE PLAN AND WE CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING THAT WOULD INTERFERE OR PROJECT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS IS ORIENTED AWAY.
AND NOW, PD WISE, IT IS TRUE THE HENDERSON PD, PD FOUR SIXTY TWO, UM, DOES CALL USES SPECIFICALLY AND FOR BAR LOUNGE OR TAVERN AND FOR RESTAURANTS, IT DOESN'T SHOW THE SIGN RAR.
SO FOR THAT PD FOR SURE, PER THE PD, RAR IS NOT, UH, REQUIRED.
WE LOOKED INTO A 30 A PDA 30, WHICH IS IN, UM, UM, WEST DALLAS THAT DOES REQUIRE, AND THEN 4 68 DOESN'T REQUIRE.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON, IS IT CORRECT ON 4 62 THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE THE RAR, BUT IT DOES DEFAULT TO CHAPTER 51 A FOR PARKING? THAT WAS MY QUESTION.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON? YES, ALL THE USES ARE PARKED PER CODE.
I, I I WILL JUST SAY IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THIS AMENDMENT THAT I OPPOSE THIS AMENDMENT, I BELIEVE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I VOTED FOR THE PREVIOUS AMENDMENT AS A COMPROMISE, UH, TO, UH, REDUCE THE PARKING MINIMUMS. BUT I, I THINK THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, GETTING RID OF THE PARKING MINIMUMS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS THAT ARE UNDER 25, 3500 SQUARE FEET WOULD BE, UH, UH, UH, A DETRIMENT TO, UH, THE NEARBY NEIGHBORHOODS.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF I RECALL IN THE, UH, LAST HEARING, UH, MR. WHITE, I THINK I ASKED YOU, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE SIZE ARE, I THINK YOU MADE A STATEMENT OF THE SIZES OF, OF THE RESTAURANTS THAT WERE IN BISHOP, I'M SORRY, IN, IN GREENVILLE OR GREENVILLE.
AND YOU, YOU INDICATED THAT THEY RANGE FROM 768 SQUARE FEET TO 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
UH, AND I, I, SO, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY YOU, YOU, YOU WOULD BE EXEMPTING ALL THE RESTAURANTS IN LOWER GREENVILLE FROM, UH, PARKING REQUIREMENTS IF, IF WE, IF WE WERE TO PASS THIS AMENDMENT.
IF I CAN CLARIFY THAT STATEMENT, THAT'S MOSTLY STILL TRUE.
I HAD MISSPOKEN, I MEANT 25,000 IN THOSE TO CAPTURE SOME OF THE LARGER THEATERS, THAT KIND OF A THING.
BUT I WOULD SAY OVERALL, THE SPACES DID COME OUT TO THE LOWER END.
I MEAN, WOULD YOU SAY 90% OF THE RESTAURANTS PROBABLY ARE FIT INTO THAT RANGE? I TOOK A SMATTERING, UH, THAT, THAT'S THE IMPRESSION.
AND, AND I THINK WE HEARD TODAY, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THE PD GIVES SOME PROTECTIONS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS NEAR BISHOP ARTS, MOST OF THE RESTAURANTS IN BISHOP ARTS ARE ALSO SIMILARLY UNDER 2,500 SQUARE FEET AS WELL.
RIGHT? I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT IN PARTICULAR, BUT THERE ARE SOME SMALL ONES.
[02:25:04]
SO AT ONE POINT IN TIME IN OUR, UH, DISCUSSIONS OF THIS ISSUE IN RECENT WEEKS, THE, THE NUMBER WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WAS 2,500 SQUARE FEET, NOT 3,500 SQUARE FEET.I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHEN THAT GOT CHANGED, BUT, UM, I FELT VERY COMFORTABLE.
I MEAN, FROM MY, FROM MY EXPERIENCE AT LEAST A LOT OF RESTAURANT SPACE.
AND WE TEND TO THINK OF RESTAURANTS THAT ARE 2,500 AND LESS AS GENERALLY BEING SMALLER RESTAURANTS.
AND, AND 3,500 WOULD CERTAINLY BE AT THE LARGER RESTAURANT SIZE.
SO, UH, I I, I WOULD, UH, IF THERE WAS SUPPORT TO DOING IT, I, I, I WOULD, I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO CONSIDER CHANGING THAT NUMBER FROM 20, FROM 3,500 SQUARE FEET TO 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
SOUNDED LIKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
UH, COMMISSIONER HOUSER, WOULD YOU ACCEPT THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO 2,500? OKAY.
SO, UH, 2,500 SQUARE FEET, COMMISSIONER CHERNO, UH, IF THE, IF THAT WAS A COMPROMISE, IF THAT COMPROMISE WOULD, UH, MAKE MY OTHER FELLOW COMMISSIONERS MORE COMFORTABLE, I WOULD, I WOULD ALSO BE IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING IT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY.
UM, I, I, SO IN THIS SITUATION, I HAVE CAUSED THE CAUSE ON SEPARATION OF RESTAURANTS AND BARS WHEN IT COMES TO NOTE PARKING.
I KNOW THAT WE SAY, WELL, LAURA SHOULDN'T HAVE THAT MUCH PARKING, BUT, UM, UNLESS WE, WE CAN PUT A RAR IN PLACE.
UM, I, I, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT WONDER, IT'S PARKING ON THE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT NO PARKING AND THEY'RE LEAVING A BAR AND THEY'RE, UM, AND THEY'RE LEAVING A BAR THAT, AND THEIR CAR IS PARKED ON THE STREET.
SO, I, I DON'T, I I I ON THIS, CAUSE I THINK THAT A, A BAR REQUIRED NEED SOME TYPE OF PARKING.
I, I'M, I'M SPLIT ON THAT ONE.
UM, 2,500 SQUARE FEET OR, OR EVEN 3,500 SQUARE FEET.
THAT ONE'S HARD WHEN YOU GO TO TALKING ABOUT HAVING MORE BARS THAN RESTAURANTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY.
WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE FOR THE PARKING MINIMUMS FOR BARS AND RESTAURANT ONLY APPLIES TO BUILDINGS OVER 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
UH, CAN WE TAKE A RECORD VOTE PLEASE.
DISTRICT THREE, DISTRICT FOUR? NO.
WHY WAS THREE MOTION PASSES? WE'LL GO TO NUMBER FIVE, MR. CHAIR IN DCA, UH, 1 9 0 DASH ZERO TWO, I, UH, MOVE AN AMENDMENT TO KEEP THE EXISTING PARKING MINIMUMS FOR SCHOOLS AND TO ELIMINATE PARKING MINIMUMS FOR CHURCHES OF 30,000 SQUARE FEET IN GROSS AREA OR LESS.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER HAUSER FOR YOUR MOTION.
AND COMMISSIONER CARPENTER FOR YOUR SECOND? WELL, NO, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T SECOND I HAD A QUESTION.
PARDON ME THEN, UH, VICE CHAIR RUBIN, FOR YOUR SECOND COMMENTS.
WELL, I, I GUESS I HAVE A QUESTION FOR CLARIFICATION AS TO WHERE THE 30, HOW WAS THE 30,000 SQUARE FEET FOR CHURCHES, UM, ESTABLISHED? WHAT, WHAT'S THE THINKING? IT FELT LIKE THE RIGHT NUMBER.
I'M OPEN TO, UH, HOW, HOW WE MAKE, I THINK THAT THE, THE SPIRIT OF IT, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER WAS, UM, OUR SMALLER NEIGHBORHOOD CHURCHES, UM, COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE REMOVAL OF MINIMUMS. LARGER CHURCHES, UM, THAT PERHAPS ARE A LITTLE MORE REGIONAL IN THEIR NATURE
[02:30:01]
WOULD MAINTAIN PARKING MINIMUMS. I UNDERSTAND THAT.IT, IT'S WEEDING OUT THE MEGA CHURCHES.
I JUST, I CAN'T VISUALIZE NOT BEING AN ARCHITECT.
WHAT A 30,000 SQUARE FOOT CHURCH.
WHAT, WHAT, IS THERE AN EXAMPLE YOU CAN THINK OF THAT WOULD GIVE ME SOMETHING TO, WELL, BECAUSE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN IS DRIVEN BY PARKING, A 30,000 SQUARE FOOT CHURCH IS GOING TO BE 120 OR 150,000 SQUARE FOOT SITE, WHICH WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THREE TO FOUR ACRES.
UH, WE HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
THIS IS JUST A CLARIFYING QUESTION.
COMM COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT, FOR THE PART OF YOUR MOTION THAT ELIMINATES PARKING MINIMUMS FOR CHURCHES, UM, 30, 30,000 SQUARE FEET OR LESS, WOULDN'T SINCE THE ZAC RECOMMENDATION IS TO ELIMINATE ALL PARKING MINIMUMS, WOULDN'T IT BE MORE ACCURATE TO JUST SAY, TO KEEP PARKING MINIMUMS FOR CHURCHES GREATER THAN 30,000? I THINK THAT WOULD BE MUCH MORE CLEAR.
I THINK THAT WOULD, I WOULD, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SEE THAT.
UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSIONER WHEELER, 30,004 FEET.
UM, 21 IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE REDUCED IT TO 20,000 MAYBE, UNLESS, I DON'T KNOW.
COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, WOULD YOU CONSIDER A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO REDUCE IT TO 20,000 SQUARE FEET? THANK YOU.
MOTION, UH, IS NOW, UH, KEEP THE EXISTING PARKING MINERALS FOR SCHOOLS AND ELIMINATE PARKING MINERALS FOR CHURCHES 20,000 SQUARE FEET IN GROSS AREA OR LESS.
ANY FURTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER HALL, PLEASE.
SO IT IS REALLY A QUESTION THAT, UH, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER IT COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT, OR, BUT WHEN I THINK OF CHURCHES, I TEND TO THINK OF CONGREGATION SIZE MEMBERSHIP.
UH, IS THERE ANY WAY TO ESTIMATE WHAT A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT CHURCH'S MEMBERSHIP WOULD BE? NO, NOT REALLY.
I MEAN, THE WAY THE CURRENT ORDINANCE WORKS IS YOU'RE PARKING ON SEAT COUNT IN THE WORSHIP SPACE.
UM, AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A PERCENTAGE OF THE GROSS AREA OF THE, OF THE CHURCH IS GONNA DEPEND ON THE DENOMINATION OR THE TYPE OF CHURCH AND THE AGE OF THE CONGREGATION AS TO HOW THEY MIX THE, THE USE OF THEIR SPACES.
BUT, UM, I DUNNO IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, BUT THAT'S NO, IT DOES.
IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT HARD TO VISUALIZE PARKING FOR 20,000 GROSS SQUARE FEET.
BUT IT'S EASIER TO VISUALIZE IT IF THE CONGREGATION'S ONLY A HUNDRED MEMBERS OR 200, YOU KNOW.
YEAH, THE, WE'VE DONE A LOT OF CHURCH ARCHITECTURE AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, UM, THE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE FACILITY MAY NOT BE DIRECT CORRELATION TO THE MEMBERSHIP, BECAUSE WHAT YOU CAN DO IS DO MULTIPLE SERVICES ON A SUNDAY.
IF YOU, IF YOU DO HAVE A SMALLER POPULATION, SMALLER CONGREGATION, YOU DO ONE SERVICE, IF ALL OF A SUDDEN IT STARTS GROWING, WELL, IT'S A LOT MORE PRACTICAL TO START HAVING TWO SERVICES AND THREE SERVICES BEFORE YOU START BUILDING.
SO IT'S GONNA BE PRETTY DIFFICULT TO, TO TAKE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND ASSUME A CERTAIN SIZE CONGREGATION.
AND YEAH, I'M NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE MOTION.
I, I, I APPRECIATE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE, BUT PARTICULARLY AS TO CHURCHES AND OTHER HOUSES OF WORSHIP, WHICH I THINK THE OFFICIAL USE NAME IN OUR CODIS CHURCH, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER DAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, IN MY EXPERIENCE, MOST HOUSES OF WORSHIP ARE, YOU KNOW, HAVE THEIR PARKING LOTS OCCUPIED, OCCUPIED, ONE OR TWO DAYS A WEEK WHERE THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF PARKING GOING ON.
AND I THINK IN TERMS OF TRADE-OFFS, I'D RATHER SEE OVERFLOW PARKING FROM HOUSES OF WORSHIP A COUPLE OF DAYS A WEEK, UM, AND PRODUCTIVE USES OF THEIR PARKING LOTS.
UM, OR WHAT, WHAT WAS PARKING LOTS? UM, SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF A MUCH HIGHER CAP FOR HOUSES OF WORSHIP OR ELIMINATING IT ALTOGETHER.
SO I APPRECIATE WHERE WE'RE GOING HERE, BUT I'M NOT GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION,
[02:35:01]
UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, COMMISSIONERS.TO THE POINT ABOUT, UM, A MORE PRODUCTIVE USE OF THE PARKING SPACES.
I HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF, UM, CHURCH LEADERS ABOUT THEIR PARKING AND ABOUT THEIR SPACES.
AND, UM, IT'S VERY OVER PARKED AND LIKE WE'RE ALL SAYING, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S BUSY, YOU KNOW, ONE DAY OUTTA THE YEAR OR OUT OF THE WEEK.
UM, AND SO THESE NEIGHBORHOOD CHURCHES, IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.
SO I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE A HIGHER, A HIGHER NUMBER.
UM, BUT IN THE SPIRIT OF COMPROMISE, IF WE CAN AT LEAST GET THIS, THIS IS SOMETHING.
SO, UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL, UM, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHURCHES, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREAS WHERE I SPEND A LOT OF MY TIME COMMISSIONER HOUSE, I PLEASE, SECOND ROUND.
THIS IS REALLY A QUESTION FOR STAFF.
UM, LET, LET'S SAY THAT WE PASSED IT AT 20,000 FEET ON CHURCHES HERE IN A MOMENT, AND A CHURCH COMES IN AND THEY'RE 25,000 OR 30,000.
SO THEY'RE GONNA PARK JUST THE, THE EXCESS.
WHAT'S THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATION OF THIS? OR IF THEY'RE 25,000, THEN THEY HAVE, SO THE RATIO THAT IT IS RIGHT NOW IS, UH, LET'S SEE IF THEY HAVE FIXED BENCHES IS LIKE PER IT'S TWO TYPE OF RATIO YEAH.
IS PER THE LENGTH OF THE FIXED BENCH 18 INCHES.
OR THE FI OR THE, OR PEW CONSTITUTE CONSTITUTES ONE FIXED SEAT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS PARAGRAPH.
UM, OR LET'S SEE IF PORTIONS OF THE SITTING IN THE SANCTUARY OR AUDITORIUM ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH FIXED ANYTHING IS ONE SPACE FOR 28 SQUARE FEET OF FLOOR AREA ARE, ARE YOU ASKING ABOUT YOUR PROPOSAL HERE FOR THE 20,001 SQUARE FOOT CHURCH? THE RIGHT, THE WAY THAT I, THE WAY THAT I THINK IT'S WRITTEN OF KEEPING MINIMUMS OVER THAT CERTAIN SIZE, THEN THE ENTIRE CHURCH WOULD BE PARKED AS SOON AS YOU HAVE THAT ONE EXTRA SQUARE FOOT.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON? YEAH, I THINK COMMISSIONER HOUSER, THAT WAS THE, THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THAT WE FORGOT TO ASK ABOUT.
AND I, I APPRECIATE YOU ASKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THAT IS, I, I THINK, UH, YOU, IN, IN SOME OF OUR OTHER DISCUSSIONS, WE SPOKE ABOUT YOU DON'T PARK THE FIRST X SQUARE NUMBER A SQUARE FEET, AND I'M NOT SURE IF MAYBE YOU ASSUME THAT THAT LANGUAGE MEANT THAT OR NOT.
IS IT CORRECT THAT WE COULD AMEND THE LANGUAGE TO REFLECT THE SPIRIT OF THERE'S NO PARKING REQUIRED FOR THE FIRST 20,000 SQUARE FEET AND IT DEFAULTS TO THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE CURRENT CODE? YES, THAT'S VERY POSSIBLE.
UM, SINCE WE'RE, WE HAVE THE LUXURY OF JUST KIND OF WORKING THIS OUT HERE AT THE HORSESHOE, LEMME UM, YOU KNOW, FOR YEARS AND YEARS, OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS ON CHURCHES HAVE BEEN TIED TO SEEK COUNT IN THE PRIMARY WORSHIP SPACE.
AND SO I'M WONDERING IF, WOULD IT BE MORE PRODUCTIVE IF WE WERE TALKING, IF WE GAVE A SEAT COUNT NUMBER RATHER THAN A SQUARE FOOTAGE NUMBER BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE KIND OF DIFFERENT ANIMALS HERE.
OR I KIND OF, I'M KIND OF ASKING STAFF, THEY'RE QUESTION, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? DO YOU WANT US TO, TO CHANGE THE PARAMETER HERE FROM SQUARE FOOTAGE TO SEAT COUNT? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE CURRENT ORDINANCE WORKS, IS SEAT COUNT.
YOU HAVE TO THINK IN TERMS OF LIKE, HOW ARE WE GONNA FIGURE OUT THE REQUIRED PARKING AT PERMITTING? THE EASIER IS TO LIKE JUST MEASURE FLOOR AREA.
BUT, BUT YEAH, YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT, COMMISSIONER.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE WHISPERING ABOUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 20,000 SQUARE FEET.
GET A REDUCTION, BUT THEN THE SEAT COUNT IS HOW WE CALCULATE IT.
HOW DO YOU GET THAT AT PERMITTING? HOW DO WE GET TO THAT? SO THE FLOOR AREA OF THE SANCTUARY SIZE? UM, I THINK IT, I DO THINK THAT WILL BE COMPLICATED, WHICH IS, IS NOT THE PURPOSE I KNOW, IS TO MAKE THINGS LESS COMPLICATED.
SO, YOU KNOW, ADMITTING THAT THIS ISN'T, NONE OF THIS IS ENTIRELY SCIENTIFIC, BUT, UM, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, I COULD SAY 300 SEATS, FOR EXAMPLE, AS THE CUTOFF.
AND THAT IF 300 SEATS AND LOWER, YOU'RE INTO MORE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE CHURCH, YOU GO ABOVE 300.
JUST, JUST MY OPINION, SOMEONE MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT NUMBER HERE AT THE HORSESHOE, BUT I DUNNO IF THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BETTER DIRECTION, MEGAN.
[02:40:01]
IT BASED ON SEAT COUNT, SINCE THAT'S HOW THE CODE CURRENTLY ADDRESSES PARKING FOR CHURCHES, THAT WOULD BE PREFERRED IF ANY PARKING IS REQUIRED FOR CHURCHES.DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE FLOOR AREA OF THE CHURCH CORRELATES TO.
I I IT'S, IT'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
SO I THINK MY BOTH ARE GREAT SYSTEMS. I THINK IT'S, IT'S WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CHOOSE.
WE DO ALREADY USE THE SEAT COUNT, SO WE HAVE A PROCESS ATTACHED TO THAT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA THROW A WRENCH IN ANY, UH, OPERATIONS, WHETHER IT'S 300 OR 290.
UM, I THINK THE CATEGORICALLY YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE IN THAT RANGE.
I WOULD SAY THAT WHILE I DO APPRECIATE THE INTENT TO SAY THE FIRST 20,000 IS NOT PARKED, I DON'T THINK IT WORKS.
SO WE MAY SAY CHURCHES THERE ARE LESS THAN 20,000 OR WHATEVER NUMBER YOU WANNA LAND ON.
AND THE ONES THAT ARE BIGGER WILL BE PARKED.
'CAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE WITH BARS AND RESTAURANTS WHERE YOU DON'T PARK THE FIRST 20,000, NOW THE RATIO IS TIED TO SOMETHING ELSE AND IT'S VERY HARD TO UNPACK THAT AT PERMITTING.
SO THAT'S PROBABLY BETTER TO, UH, DISCUSS IF 20,000 IS A SWEET SPOT FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD CHURCH OR 30,000, IS YOUR ORIGINAL BETTER DISPUTE THAT NUMBER RATHER THAN YES.
AND SO AT 20,001 SQUARE FEET, YOU'RE GOING TO STILL PARK IT ON SEAT COUNT.
BASED ON THE TOTAL SEAT COUNT.
WELL, I, I THINK YEAH, RATHER THAN CHANGING THIS MEMO, YOU KNOW, AND START DOING, BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REVIEWING IT AS SQUARE FOOTAGE AND IT'S BEEN SORT OF SOCIALIZED AS SQUARE FOOTAGE.
SO I, I THINK BASED ON CONVERSATION WITH STAFF, WE JUST LEAVE IT LIKE THAT AND THEN STAY WITH THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT AT 20.
COMMISSIONER TURNOCK? COMMISSIONER HALL.
YEAH, THIS IS JUST A, SOME CLARIFICATION MAYBE FROM COUNCILLOR MORRIS.
UH, WE SAY CHURCH, BUT IT COULD BE MOSQUE, TEMPLE, SYNAGOGUE.
ALL HOUSES OF WORSHIP FALL UNDER OUR DEFINITION OF CHURCH IN THE DEVELOPMENT CODE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? ANY OPPOSED? ONE IN OPPOSITION, COMMISSIONER FORESIGHT AND VICE CHAIR RUBIN.
UM, ITEM SIX ON OUR DISCUSSION LIST.
I, I MOVE THAT WE, UM, AMEND THE ZO OAC PROPOSAL BY KEEPING PARKING MINIMUMS ON INDOOR AND OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT AND THAT WE REDUCE THE MINIMUM FOR THESE USES TO ONE SPACE PER 200 SQUARE FEET.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? COMMISSIONERS AND VICE RUBEN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR, UH, SECOND DISCUSSION.
COMMISSIONER SEN, UH, I HAVE A QUESTION FIRST.
WHAT ARE THE RAR REQUIREMENTS FOR INDOOR AND OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT? I WOULD JUST ANSWER TOP OF MY HEAD.
THIS USE RE IS ALLOWABLE BY SUP.
UM, AND LET ME SEE IF IT'S ALLOWED ANYWHERE BY, RIGHT.
IF IT TRIGGERS THE R-A-R-R-A-R IS REQUIRED FOR ANY DENSE HOLD THAT, THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE AN SUP, BUT IT'S LOCATED WITHIN 300 FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
NOW, DENSE HALL, UH, IS BY SUP IN A-C-R-C-S UC, WHICH WE DON'T SEE, UM, ARE OUR INDUSTRIAL CENTRAL AREA MIXED USE AND MULTIPLE COMMERCIAL, IF IT'S LOCATED WITHIN 300 FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, THIS TYPE OF USES GENERALLY ARE BY SUP.
AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT MY CHART SAYS FOR THE OUTSIDE BYR.
[02:45:01]
UM, IT'S BY RIGHT IN CR AND RR.IF NOT, IF IT'S NOT A DENSE HALL OR A BINGO PARLOR, IF IT'S SOMETHING ELSE LIKE A CHILDREN AMUSEMENT CENTER FOR INSTANCE, IT'S COMPLICATED AT COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPE OF USES AND EACH TYPE OF USE WITHIN THE MAIN USE HAS DIFFERENT ALLOWANCES.
SO TRUCK YARD FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, OKAY, LET ME LOOK INTO THEIR CO I DON'T KNOW, I THOUGHT THAT THAT'S A RESTAURANT USE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT USE.
I DON'T KNOW IT BY HEART, SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE YOU'VE GOT A LARGE OUTDOOR COMPONENT OR LIKE THE RUSTIC, SO COMMERCIAL, A COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT OUTSIDE.
UM, IT'S BY RIDING CS IN CENTRAL AREA DISTRICTS, UH, AND BY SUP AND CR.
SO, UM, AND THEN IT'S A DRN CS.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT IF IT'S A COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT OUTSIDE USE WITH A CO LIKE THAT, IT IS BY SUP.
AS I SAID, IN A LOT OF THESE, UH, DISTRICTS, WHICH IS CRRR IS NOT EVEN ALLOWED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICE DISTRICT.
FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU BY ANY CHANCE THERE IS A ADJACENCY OF A CS WITH A RESIDENTIAL, THEN JUST, IT IS ALLOWED ONLY BY DIR TO COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S POINT.
AND IT'S ALSO FOR BOTH THE, SORRY, I KEEP ON LIKE READING FROM THE CODE.
IF THE SUP IS REQUIRED FOR THE USE, THE OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENT MAY BE ESTABLISHED BY THE SUP.
AND IF WE GO TO COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE, IT HAS REQUIREMENTS FOR SOME OF THE USES.
BUT IF THE SUP IS REQUIRED, THE OFF STREET PARKING MAY BE ESTABLISHED BY THE SUP.
SO I WOULD SAY THE, THESE, THESE ARE USES THAT ARE HEAVILY REGULATED BY AN SUP.
BUT IF YOU REDUCE THE PARKING UNDER THE CODE, COULD AN SUP INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING NEEDED? I WOULD SAY SO DON'T WE DO IT WITH SUVS ALL THE TIME? LIKE FOR SCHOOLS, FOR INSTANCE, WHERE WE DO SUVS OR PDS, THE RATIO STAYS THE SAME, BUT IT'S ILLUSTRATED AROUND SITE PLAN AND IT'S MORE THAN WHAT'S MINIMUM REQUIRED.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT ANSWER? NO, THAT'S CORRECT.
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON, JUST ONE FOLLOW UP.
UM, I WAS SEARCHING THROUGH PDS IN MY DISTRICT, UM, SINCE WE WERE HAVING THE DISCUSSION EARLIER.
AND I SEE A NUMBER WHERE COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE IS NOT SUBJECT TO AN SUP, UM, WHERE THOSE PDS DEFAULT TO BASE CODE, THIS WILL THEN REDUCE THE REQUIREMENT WITH NO ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION.
IS THAT CORRECT? IF THE PD DOESN'T HAVE A RATIO FOR THAT USE, YES, IT DEFAULTS TO THE CODE.
BUT, UH, I AM VERY CURIOUS ABOUT THOSE PDS THOUGH.
I WOULD, SO THERE'S THE HENDERSON PD.
UH, I'VE BEEN WHISPERED BY, UH, A LONG TIME STAFFER THAT THAT PD WAS CREATED WITH THE COMMUNITY.
SO ALL OF THOSE WERE ACTUALLY THE NOT AN RAR AND ALL OF THESE WERE DECIDED.
AND ARE YOU AWARE THAT THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE RECENTLY THAT REMOVED A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE RESIDENTIAL ZONING THAT USED TO EXIST IN THAT PD? I WISH I KNEW ALL THE REZONINGS IN THE CITY BY HARBOR.
I, I AM NOT, I I BELIEVE YOU COMMISSIONER WHEELER, ISN'T IT THAT IF, IF A, UM, THE OUTSIDE AMUSEMENT IS, UM, HAD, IS IS ADJACENT TO RESIDENT, THAT IT HAS TO BE CLOSED AT 11:00 PM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT THERE'S A TIME, THERE'S A TIMEFRAME IF IT'S ADJACENT TO A, UM, RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, WOULD YOU MIND LEANING INTO THE MIC A LITTLE BIT? WE'RE JUST HAVING TROUBLE HEARING ISN'T THAT IF IT, IF IT'S A OUTSIDE AMUSEMENT, UM, UM, THAT IT OUTSIDE AMUSEMENT AND EVEN IF IT'S A, UH, SAY AN OUTSIDE, UM, UM, SEATING THAT IT HAS TO BE CLOSED AT A CERTAIN TIME.
I ONLY ASKED THAT BECAUSE ONE OF MY, SO ONE OF MY DISTRICT JUST GOT A TICKET FOR THAT EXACT THING AND THEY REVERTED BACK.
THAT SAID, THAT'S LISTED IN THE CODE AT 11:00 PM THEY HAVE TO BE CLOSED, GOES BY WHATEVER HOURS
[02:50:01]
THE CITY HAS, IS NOT IN THE BASE CODE WITH CLOSING TIME.AND KEEP ON SAYING LIKE, THOSE HOURS CAN BE ESTABLISHED BY THE SUP.
SO THE, SO IT IS A RESTAURANT WITH A BAR THAT HAS A, IT'S A RESTAURANT WITH A BAR, BUT THEY SELL MORE FOOD.
THE OUTSIDE AREA HAS TO BE CLOSED AT 11, BUT THE INSIDE AREA DOESN'T HAVE A TIME RESTRAINT.
AND WELL, I WAS TOLD IT WAS BY CODE.
IF, IF THEY HAVE THE CO FOR THE RESTAURANT AND THE BAR AT THE OUTDOOR PATIO FUNCTIONS PROBABLY THE SAME AS THE RESTAURANT.
WHAT ARE THE CLOSING HOURS IN THE CITY? IS IT MIDNIGHT? IT WAS, IT WAS THE TICKET SAID AT 7:00 PM FOR ONLY FOR THE OUTSIDE AREA, NOT THE INSIDE.
SO THE ZONING DOESN'T, AS, AS ANDREA SAID, THE BASE ZONING DOESN'T REGULATE HOURS OF OPERATION.
UM, IF WE'RE CONSIDERING AN RAR, UM, WE DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT HOURS OF OPERATION ON THE OUTSIDE AREA, YOU KNOW, TO HELP REDUCE NOISE AND MAKE IT MORE COMPATIBLE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, CAN YOU CLARIFY, AM I ANSWERING THE QUESTION? YES.
SO, OKAY, SO THE TICKET WAS, THE OUTSIDE AREA HAD TO BE CLOSED AT 11:00 PM NOT THE INSIDE AREA.
SO COMMISSIONER, I'M JUST GONNA, I, I DON'T WANT STAFF TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT A CITATION THAT THEY HAVEN'T NO, IT'S NOT SO, SO LEMME TAKE YOU THAT THEY HAVEN'T LOOKED AT BASED ON ZONING THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, WHETHER IT'S AN SUP OR BASED ZONING OR A PD OR SO.
SO LEMME I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE ON.
IS THAT IN THE CO BECAUSE IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TICKET.
IT'S KIND OF ASKING TO GO ALONG WITH COMMISSIONER KINGSTON ABOUT THE, THE OUTSIDE PORTIONS.
UM, THAT COULD MEAN THAT WOULD REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT'S IN THE BUILDING AT A CERTAIN TIME BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE OUTSIDE AREA.
AND WHEN, WHEN, WHEN LOOKING AT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING AND THE OUTSIDE AREA BEING PART OF THE INSIDE OF THE BUILDING, IT DOES REDUCE AFTER A CERTAIN TIME THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE, THAT ARE IN THE BUILDING.
SO THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, THE ONLY PD WE HAVE IN THE CITY WITH LATE HOURS IS THE LOWER GREENVILLE PD AND THAT CA CAPTURES THE USE THAT COMMISSIONER KINGSTON WAS REFERENCING.
SO THAT REGULATE REGULATES LATE HOURS.
UM, AND THOSE ARE BY SUP, BUT IN THE REST OF THE CITY, OUTSIDE PORTIONS WOULD CLOSE AT NORMAL HOURS THAT ARE OKAY.
APPLICABLE TO THE CITY'S NOT REGULATED THROUGH THE ZONING CODE.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, UH, CAN WE GET A CLARIFICATION THAT THE OUTDOOR PORTION OF BARS AND RESTAURANTS, IF THEY HAVE COS AS BARS AND RESTAURANTS DO NOT FALL UNDER THIS CATEGORY OF COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT OUTSIDE? NO.
ANY, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, COMMISSIONERS? NONE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
COMMISSIONER, FORESITE, HAMPTON, AND KINGSTON.
UM, YEAH, I HAVE A, I HAVE A MOTION AND THEN I MIGHT ASK, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY ABOUT SOMETHING HERE.
BUT, UM, ON DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER SEVEN OF DCA 1 9 0 0 2, I MOVE THAT WE ELIMINATE ALL MINIMUMS FOR ALL USES IN CA DISTRICTS.
A MOTION, A SECOND DISCUSSION.
AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IF WE TOOK NO ACTION ON THIS, DOES THE ZO OAC ORDINANCE ALREADY NO.
WOULD, WOULD BASICALLY REMOVE THEM ANYWAY, RIGHT? THAT'S FINE.
IS THIS, WELL, AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, THE ZO OAC RECOMMENDATION IS TO REMOVE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR ALL USES.
BUT NOW THAT THIS BODY IS GOING BACK AND PUTTING SOME IN THIS MOTION WOULD BE IN ORDER.
THIS, THIS WOULD KIND OF TRUMP ANY OKAY.
PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'RE NOW GONNA KEEP IT, WE WOULDN'T KEEP THEM FOR CA SO A CHURCH THAT WAS 20,001 SQUARE FEET OR ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
COMMISSIONERS HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND DISCUSSION.
SEE, SEE, NONE OF THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
UM, IN DISCUSSION, ITEM EIGHT A I I MOVE THAT WE ELIMINATE ALL MINIMUMS FOR ALL USES WITHIN ONE HALF MILE RADIUS OF RAIL AND TOD STATIONS.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HOUSER FOR YOUR MOTION.
AND VICE CHAIR RUBIN FOR YOUR SECOND DISCUSSION.
COMMISSIONER KINGSTON, I CAN'T SUPPORT THE MOTION.
I MEAN, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT BARS AND RESTAURANTS AND HAD A LENGTHY DISCUSSION
[02:55:01]
ABOUT THEIR IMPACT.I DON'T SEE THAT BEING ANY DIFFERENT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE CLOSE TO RAIL, THEY'RE STILL CLOSE TO PEOPLE'S HOMES.
IN FACT, IN THEORY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE DENSITY NEAR RAIL.
SO THE IMPACT THAT THESE ESTABLISHMENTS, UM, INCLUDING COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT WOULD HAVE, COULD POTENTIALLY BE GREATER ON A GREATER NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME TO ELIMINATE THE PARKING ON THOSE TYPE OF USES.
UM, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE CLOSE TO RAIL.
I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, UM, BUT I THINK THAT HAVING SOME BUMPERS IN, IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'VE GOT, UH, A VESTED RIGHT THAT YOU CAN'T UNDO MAKES SOME SENSE.
UM, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU HAVE THE ABILITY DOWN THE ROAD AFTER YOU MAKE CHANGES TO GO IN AND MAKE FURTHER CHANGES.
UH, COMMISSIONER TURNOCK FOLLOWED BY VICE RUBEN.
UH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.
UH, IS THE CURRENT THINKING ON THE DISTANCE IS JUST, UH, HOW FAR SOMEBODY POTENTIALLY WOULD WALK TO GO AND USE THE PUBLIC TRANSIT? AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION IS, UM, AND IF THAT'S TRUE OR PARTLY TRUE, WHY, WHY WOULD BUS WALKING TO A BUS BE NOT AT A HALF MILE? OR WHY WOULDN'T IT BE THE SAME AS GO WALKING TO PUBLIC, UH, TO A, UH, RAIL? YOU KNOW, UH, TO THE SECOND QUESTION THAT I THINK THAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR THE COMMISSIONER, MAKING THE MOTION ABOUT WHY THE, WHY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUS AND RAIL COULD, COULD BE CAPACITY, COULD BE THE PERMANENCE OF IT, UM, REGARDING HOW STAFF IS THINKING ABOUT MEASURING THIS.
SOME CITIES DO THE WALKING DISTANCE, SOME DO IT AS THE CROW FLIES.
THAT'S SORT OF THE EASIEST FOR US TO MEASURE AND, UM, UH, DO IT PERMITTING.
UM, BUT THERE'S PRECEDENT ALSO FOR WALKING DISTANCE.
UM, YOU MIGHT DO, AND THIS IS A BROAD IMPRESSION, IF YOU DO A A A ONE MILE AS THE CROW FLIES, THAT MIGHT BE HALF OR THREE QUARTERS WALKING DISTANCE.
OR IF YOU DO HALF MILE AS THE CROW FLIES, THAT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, UM, ONE QUARTER OR A LITTLE MORE WALKING DISTANCE JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST ZAGGING AROUND TREES.
SO AS FAR AS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUS AND RAIL, UM, THE, THE ONLY THING THAT I CAN THINK OF, AND I WOULD TURN IT OVER TO THE COMMISSIONER, IS JUST CAPACITY IN GENERAL RAIL IS JUST USUALLY BUILT TO DELIVER MORE PEOPLE FASTER.
I HAD ONE QUESTION IN, IN OTHER CITIES, UM, AND THIS IS A, A VERY COMMON THING AND, AND WITH PARKING REFORM TO, UM, HAVE PARKING RELIEF, UH, NEAR PUBLIC TRANSIT.
BUT DO THEY ALWAYS DO A CA CIRCLE OR DO SOME CITIES DO THE ENTIRE CORRIDOR OF THE RAIL LINE? PEOPLE DO, DO CORRIDORS.
I THINK CORRIDORS ARE MORE FREQUENT AROUND BUS FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.
THE STOPS ARE MUCH MORE CONDENSED.
AND THEN IF, DEPENDING ON THE BUS TYPE, IF IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, MORE, UH, A LESS PERMANENT BUS TYPE THEN STOPS WILL MOVE ALONG THE CORRIDOR.
SO THAT CAN MAKE MORE SENSE WITH A RAIL, YOU'RE NOT BOARDING THE RAIL BETWEEN THE STATIONS.
AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE THOSE CIRCLES COME FROM.
I HAVE TO AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER KINGSTON.
UH, AND LEMME GIVE YOU SOME ADDITIONAL COLOR, UH, UH, OF WHY THAT'S THE CASE.
WHEN WE FIRST STARTED MAKING AMENDMENTS AND VOTING FOR AMENDMENTS, THE FIRST THING THAT WE DECIDED TO DO WAS TO PROTECT HOLMES, OUR S UH, TH H, S AND, AND DS.
AND WE DECIDED TO, TO KEEP MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS AND JUST REDUCE IT DOWN TO ONE UNIT PER ONE SPACE PER, PER UNIT.
NOW YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE HOMES THAT ARE NEAR RAIL STATIONS AND TODS.
IN FACT, I LIVE IN A SUBDIVISION THAT'S REALLY CLOSE INTO A, A RAIL STATION FROM MY DOOR.
AND I LIVE ON THE VERY INSIDE OF MY SUBDIVISION.
IT COULD TAKE ME ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF, MAYBE TWO MINUTES FOR A LIGHT JOG TO GET THERE.
THERE'S 340 UNITS, HOME UNITS WHERE I LIVE.
THIS BODY HAD JUST APPROVED 200 ADDITIONAL UNITS OF HIGHER DENSITY THAT'S ADJACENT TO THE RAIL STATION, WHICH IS A LOT CLOSER THAN WHERE I'M AT.
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF ROOM FOR DEVELOPMENT.
[03:00:01]
CONSCIOUS OF WHAT'S BEING DEVELOPED AND HOW THAT'S GOING TO IMPACT THOSE WHO ALREADY LIVE THERE.RIGHT? SO IF WE DECIDE THAT WE WANT TO PROTECT HOMES IN ONE AREA, WE SHOULD BE CONSISTENT IN THAT APPROACH FOR ALL AREAS, I THINK WE CAN GET THERE.
BUT AS THE THE LANGUAGE IS WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, IT'S GONNA CAUSE, UH, A DISPROPORTIONATE OUTCOME BASED ON WHERE YOU LIVE AND IT COULD HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
SO WHAT I'M GONNA SUGGEST AN OFFER UP AS A, A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THIS TO TRY TO DEFINE A HAPPY MINIMUM.
A A MEDIUM, IS TO ELIMINATE ALL MINIMUM FOR ALL USES WITHIN A QUARTER MILE RADIUS OF RAIL TDS, EXCEPT FOR RD AND TH DISTRICTS, WHERE THE MINIMUM IS ONE SPACE PER UNIT, WHICH IS CONSISTENT TO WHAT WE'VE DONE FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
NOW, WHY, WHY DO I I CHOOSE A QUARTER OF A MILE? I CHOOSE A QUARTER OF A MILE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE DATA SAYS.
IF YOU DO THE RESEARCH AND LOOK AT WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT PLANS ARE FOR DART AROUND THE TODS, THEY DO IT BY QUARTER MILES.
AND THE INFORMATION AND DATA THAT I RECEIVED IS PRETTY, IS ALMOST INCONSISTENT TO WHAT THE OVERALL GOAL IS FOR, FOR, FOR PARKING, UH, ELIMINATION.
UH, THEY, THEY FOUND THAT COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES AND RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN MULTIFAMILY THAT ARE NEAR DART STATIONS PAY A PREMIUM 17 AND 23%.
UH, THAT WAS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS, UH, IT WAS SECONDED.
SO WE'LL TAKE IT AS AN UNFRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
SO NOW WE'LL, WE'LL DISCUSS THAT ONE.
COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN, PLEASE.
YES, FOR EVERYTHING I JUST SAID, YOU CAN JUST PUT IT UNDER, UNDERNEATH THAT.
BUT I, WHAT I WAS WITH, WITH THE POINT I'M TRYING TO DRIVE HOME HERE IS WE WANT TO BE EQUITABLE ACROSS THE CITY.
AND I THINK BY WHAT I BELIEVE IS THAT IF WE TAKE AN INCONSISTENT APPROACH BY HAVING PROTECTION IN ONE PART OF TOWN, OR IF YOU ARE FORTUNATE NOT TO LIVE SO CLOSE TO A TOD OR FORTUNATE, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, UM, THAT YOU'RE GONNA EXPERIENCE A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.
I UNDERSTAND THAT WE WANT HIGHER DENSITY, AND I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE, ESPECIALLY AROUND TODS.
AND WE'LL GET THE, THE RIGHT KIND OF HOUSING MIX IN, IN THEIR RETAIL AND THAT MAKES SENSE.
BUT THE PROXIMITY TO EXISTING HOMES WILL HAVE, UH, COULD HAVE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES.
YOU CAN HAVE RETAIL BARS, RESTAURANTS WHERE THERE'S NO PARKING MINIMUMS, BUT I THINK THE QUARTER MILE GIVES ENOUGH BARRIER BETWEEN THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT AND THE EXISTING HOMES WHERE PATRONS WHO GO VISIT THOSE AREAS WON'T BE PARKING.
PARKING IN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS.
UH, FIRST ROUND ON THE AMENDMENT LAST YEAR WE FILED COMMISSIONER KINGSTON.
YEAH, I APPRECIATE THE COMPROMISE THAT COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN IS TRYING TO PROPOSE, BUT I ULTIMATELY DON'T THINK THAT I'M GOING TO BE ABLE TO, UM, SUPPORT THIS FOR A FEW REASONS.
WE TALK ABOUT HOW, UM, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO TREAT ALL RESIDE ALIKE, BUT I THINK THERE IS A MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE WITH RESIDENTIAL AREAS THAT ARE NEAR TRANSIT, WHETHER IT'S WITHIN A HALF MILE OR A QUARTER MILE AND RESIDENTIAL AREAS THAT AREN'T NEAR TRANSIT.
AND I THINK IN PARTICULAR, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THESE AREAS AROUND TRANSIT IS AN IDEAL AREA TO LOOK AT SINGLE FAMILY DUPLEX AND TOWNHOUSE DISTRICTS, UM, THAT DON'T REQUIRE PARKING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING IS THAT MOST, MOST CONSTRUCTION IN THOSE DISTRICTS WILL STILL BUILD PARKING.
SINCE WE'D ONLY BE ELIMINATING PARKING MINIMUMS, WE WOULDN'T BE SETTING MAXIMUMS. SO I DO THINK THAT RESIDENTIAL R ZONE, D ZONE TH ZONED, UM, PROPERTY IN THOSE AREAS ARE PROTECTED AND ARE SITUATED DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE OF THEIR PROXIMITY TO TRANSIT.
AND ADDITIONALLY, YOU KNOW, GIVEN ALL OF THE, YOU KNOW, ADVANCES IN, IN TECHNOLOGY, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, RIDE SHARE AND AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES OR, OR MICRO MOBILITY LIKE, LIKE E-BIKES, UH, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TALKING MAYBE 10 OR 15 YEARS AGO, I, I THINK A QUARTER MILE MIGHT BE MORE APPROPRIATE, BUT, BUT TODAY I THINK A HALF MILE, CONSIDERING ALL THE ADVANCES THAT WE HAVE, UM, IS AN APPROPRIATE, UM, RADIUS TO SET FOR,
[03:05:02]
UM, A ELIMINATION OF PARKING MINIMUMS AROUND DART RAIL STATIONS.ANYONE ELSE? FIRST ROUND COMMISSIONER, WHEELER,
IS THAT AN AMENDMENT THAT IF THAT, IF WE DO THAT, THAT, UM, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE, UM, SPACES ON SITE FOR, FOR, UM, RIDE SHARE? OR MAYBE I'M TOO FAR IF IT'S IN THOSE TYPE OF AREAS.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE BASE MOTION OR THE AMENDMENT? UH, DR.
WOODDALE CAN MAYBE IT'LL BE HELPFUL IF YOU, UH, IF YOU WALK US THROUGH AGAIN, WHAT WHAT DOES THE BASE MOTION DO? WHAT DOES THE AMENDMENT DO? I WAS LOOKING AT THE DARK DEFINITION OF POD, SORRY,
UM, SO, UM, WE HAVE THE BASE MOTION WAS TO ELIMINATE ALL MINIMUMS FOR ALL USES WITHIN HALF A MILE RADIUS OF RAIL TOD STATIONS.
AND COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN'S FRIENDLY AMENDMENT WAS TO SHRINK THAT TO A QUARTER MILE AND THAT'S IT.
NO, IN ADDITION TO THAT, UH, EXCLUDING RDS AND THS.
SO YOU WOULD SAY THAT, UH, ANY TYPE OF USE, ANY TYPE OF USE IN R THERE IN RD AND TH, WHICH THERE ARE USES THAT LET'S SAY CHURCHES RIGHT, OR SCHOOLS, ANY TYPE OF USE THERE ARE IN THOSE DISTRICTS, NOT JUST SINGLE FAMILY, RIGHT? WELL, THE SPIRIT, WHAT, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET TO WAS JUST PRIMARILY FAMILY OWNED RESIDENTS OR, OR, OR DWELLING UNITS IS WHAT I'M, I'M, I'M LOOKING FOR.
SO, UM, YOU ARE SAYING THAT SINGLE FAMILY LAND USES, THERE ARE, UM, ZONED RDTH WILL HAVE TO BE PARKED WITHIN TODS.
SO IF I HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND I LIVE NEXT DOOR TO A RAIL STATION, I STILL NEED TO PARK MY, TO PARK MY SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
CONSISTENT TO WHAT WE'VE DONE FOR THE OTHER PARTS OF TOWN THAT WE VOTED ON.
SO I THINK HE JUST EXPLAINED IT.
COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN JUST EXPLAINED IT.
SO BASICALLY HIS AMENDMENT SAYS THAT, UM, THE, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE STATION, WHAT THIS CONSTITUTE A TOD IS QUARTER MILE INSTEAD OF HALF A MILE.
AND THEN HE WANTS TO ENSURE THAT SINGLE, IF RD AND TH ZONED AREAS ARE WITHIN THAT QUARTER MILE, ONLY THE SINGLE FAMILY USES WILL BE PARKED AND THEY WILL BE PARKED PER THE NEW RATIO, WHICH IS ONE PER UNIT, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
AND, UH, THAT'S MY EXPLANATION AS FAR AS RATIONALE ON ALL.
LIKE I WILL LEAVE IT TO THE COMMISSIONER THAT CLEAR IT UP.
BUT IF WE ARE TO ELIMINATING PARKING MINIMUMS, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING THAT IT HAS DESIGNATED AREAS FOR A RIDESHARE.
I MEAN, I MEAN, WE'LL, WE'LL VOTE THIS OUT AND THEN IF SHE CAN MAKE THAT AMENDMENT YEP, WE'LL VOTE THIS ONE OUT, THEN WE CAN COME BACK.
UM, SO WE'RE NOW, UH, VOTING ON THAT.
COMMISSIONER CARPENTER AND, AND AND HOUSE.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. NAVAREZ BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE, THE ZO OAC UM, MOTION WAS TO ELIMINATE ALL MINIMUMS FOR ALL USES EVERYWHERE, REGARDLESS OF HOW CLOSE THEY ARE TO TODS EVERYWHERE.
AND THEN WE'VE GONE THROUGH ITEM BY ITEM AND PICKED OUT CERTAIN USES THAT WE THINK WHETHER WE WERE COLLECTIVELY WE'VE COMPROMISED AND THINK THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR RESIDENCE OR RESIDENTIAL MULTIFAMILY, COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENTS CHURCHES, SCHOOLS SPECIFICALLY FOR SCHOOLS.
IF A SCHOOL IS WITHIN HALF A MILE, A QUARTER MILE OF ONE OF THESE TODS OR BUS ROUTES WHERE THIS, THIS, UM, EITHER OF THESE MOTIONS HAVE JUST BEEN MADE WOULD SAY THAT SCHOOLS NO LONGER HAVE TO HAVE ANY PARKING.
HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW? WITH THE TRAFFIC DEMAND MANAGEMENT PLANS THAT YOU LOOK AT CONSTANTLY AND YOU USE PARKING AREAS TO, TO HANDLE THE, THE QUEUE FOR SCHOOLS IS, IS IT GOING TO WORK FOR SCHOOLS TO BE ABLE TO OPEN WITH NO PARKING OR WITH A, WITHOUT A, SOME MANDATED AMOUNT OF PARKING? WOULD TDMP TRUMP THAT ACTUALLY THANK, THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.
I THAT'S, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
ULTIMATELY THE TMP IS AN EVALUATION OF THE PEAK HOURS, HOW
[03:10:01]
PARENTS ARE ARRIVING DURING MORNING AND AFTERNOON PEAK.UH, TMP DOES NOT NECESSARILY, BUT IT COULD AT YOUR DISCRETION, IT COULD LOOK INTO HOW STAFF PARKS AND OR SPECIAL EVENTS PARK, BUT GIVEN THAT THEY WOULD BE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE FROM A TOD, THEN YOU WOULD THINK THAT AT A MINIMUM A PORTION OF THE STAFF THAT WORKS AT THE SCHOOL IS NO LONGER NEEDING TO PARK.
IN ALL FAIRNESS, REGARDLESS OF YOUR OPINION, THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO CONSIDER WHETHER OR NOT THE TOD IS A, AN ATTRACTIVE MODE OF TRANSPORTATION FOR OPTION FOR, FOR STAFF AND THEREFORE DO WE NEED TO APPLY THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR A LAND USE, WHETHER IT'S A SCHOOL OR ANY OTHER USE? UM, SHORT ANSWER, NO.
THE TMP ITSELF WOULD SERVE AS A STAFF AND ADMINISTRATIVE TOOL TO INCREASE PARKING, PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUENESS OF THE SITES AND THE UNIQUENESS OF ITS RELATIONSHIP TO, UM, THE, UM, TOD, UM, WHETHER INDEPENDENT FROM THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
AND, AND THEN GOING BACK TO A QUESTION BEFORE I, I KNOW THAT A QUARTER OF A MILE AND HALF A MILE MAY BE A DIFFICULT FOR SOME OF US TO VISUALIZE, BUT IF YOU CAN EQUATE A QUARTER MILE TO A FIVE MINUTE BRISK WALK, SOMEONE WHO'S ABLE TO WALK, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY CHALLENGES, A FIVE MINUTE WALK, A HALF A MILE WALK WOULD BE A 10 MINUTE WALK.
SO JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT AS REFERENCE COMMISSIONER HAMPTON AS WE'RE EVALUATING BOTH OF THESE, UM, THE MAIN MOTION AND THE AMENDMENT.
UM, AND I THINK THIS QUESTION MAY BE FOR MR. WADE OR MR. NAVAREZ MAY BE ABLE TO WEIGH IN WHAT LANGUAGES IN THE ZAC RECOMMENDATIONS THAT SPEAKS TO, UM, PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS RELATED TO ACCESS TO TRANSIT.
SO WE'RE MOVING, OR THE PROPOSAL IS TO REMOVE AMENDMENTS, MAY MAYBE KEEP SOME FOR SOME, UM, ZONING DISTRICTS.
BUT OVERALL, HOW WOULD THESE FUNCTION? SO I KNOW IT'S NOT REQUIRED, THEY MAY BE PROVIDED, BUT ARE, ARE ANY OF THE OTHER PROVISIONS THAT SPEAK TO WALKABILITY EMBEDDED WITHIN THE ZO OAC RECOMMENDATION? NO, THEY'RE NOT.
UM, AND THEN ONE OTHER, AND I, WHOEVER WANTS TO TAKE THIS, AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THE CHAIR ASKING THE QUESTION, BUT WANNA MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OTHER SPECIFIC USES THAT MAY REQUIRE MINIMUMS. THIS, UM, THE MAIN MOTION WOULD BE NO MINIMUMS FOR ANY OF THOSE, NOT FOR BARS AND RESTAURANTS, NOT FOR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE OR OUTSIDE, NOTHING FOR SCHOOLS, NOTHING FOR CHURCHES.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S HOW I'M READING THE COMMISSIONER'S MOTION.
COMMISSIONER, UH, FRANKLIN, WOULD YOU, UH, ACCEPT A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO ADD SCHOOLS TO YOUR UH, WE CAN COMMISSIONER.
WE CAN'T DO A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT APPARENTLY TO A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, SO, BUT WE CAN, I THOUGHT IT IS A NON-FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO A NON-FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, BUT YOU CAN MAKE THAT, UH, HE CAN MAKE THAT MOTION LATER, COULDN'T HE? HE COULD.
I MEAN, HE CAN ASK FOR A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO, FOR HIM.
OH, I BE YOU COULDN'T DO THAT.
YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ANOTHER ACTUAL MOTION.
AH, YES, YOU CAN COMMISSIONER FORAY IF HE WILL ACCEPT IT.
CAN YOU REPEAT? YEAH, CAN I SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF HIS AMENDMENT? CAN YOU REPEAT IT ONE MORE TIME TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL GOT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE? SO WHERE ARE WE AT? I WOULD SIMPLY LIKE TO ADD SCHOOLS TO THE DISTRICTS THAT ARE, UH, ACCEPTED FROM THIS AMENDMENT.
UH, HE, HE HAS, UH, RD AND TH DISTRICTS THAT ARE ACCEPTED FROM THIS AMENDMENT.
AND I WOULD LIKE JUST TO ADD SCHOOLS TO THAT AS WELL.
BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE, UH, THAT WE, WE WERE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE WORD DISTRICTS BEFORE COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN AND, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE YOU WERE, IT'S ACTUALLY, I THINK FROM WHAT I'M LISTENING TO YOU, I THINK WHAT YOU MEAN ARE THE USES, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, NEAR THE END OF YOUR MOTION THAT YOU HAD THE WORD DISTRICT AND THAT COVERS SOME OTHER THINGS.
SO I WANNA MAKE SURE, EARLIER YOU WERE TALKING WITH DR.
RE, AND I'M NOT SURE IF YOU MET THE USE AND NOT THE DISTRICT OR BOTH, WHATEVER THE, THE TERM OF ART IS TO INDICATE OR CHARACTERIZE A DWELLING UNIT.
THAT'S THE ONE I'M REFERRING TO.
SO IS THAT DISTRICT OR Y YOU, YOU CLARIFIED VIA MY QUESTIONS THAT SINGLE FAMILY USES OR RESIDENTIAL USES, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONLY ALLOWED IN RD AND TH.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONLY RESIDENTIAL USES YES.
AND I, THE USES NOW COMMISSIONER FORESIGHT IS AS
[03:15:01]
ASK, UH, ADDING, UH, SCHOOLS, SCHOOLS, SCHOOLS.AND I WOULD MAKE A COMMENT TO COMMISSIONER FORESIGHT.
DO NOT FORGET SCHOOLS ARE ALLOWED BY SUP OR THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PDS IF THEY'RE LOCATED IN RD AND TH.
SO THEY ARE ALREADY REGULATED BY THAT.
THE, THE PREVIOUS I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE PREVIOUS AMENDMENT THAT WE PASSED THAT, UH, KEPT, UH, ALL PARKING MINIMUMS FOR SCHOOLS THAT THAT, THAT, THAT AMENDMENT CONTINUES TO BE HONORED.
IT IS NOT OVERRIDDEN WITH THIS.
AND, AND, AND, AND, AND I JUST WANT ALSO WANTED TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS, UH, UH, ONE QUESTION ALSO, BY THE WAY, FROM THE FOLKS THAT CAME HERE FROM KID SPRINGS THIS MORNING AND, AND THEY ASKED, UH, UH, ABOUT THEIR CONCERN THAT THE STREETCAR IS A BLOCK FROM THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEY WERE CONCERNED THAT THIS AMENDMENT HERE WOULD, UH, UH, THAT STREET CARS WOULD BE INTERPRETED AS PART OF THAT, UH, UH, THESE, UH, T RAIL TOD STATIONS.
IS THAT, IS THAT TRUE? WOULD STREET CARS BE CONSIDERED, UH, A RAIL TOD STATION? YES, BECAUSE IT'S A RAIL.
AND I WOULD MAKE, YES, BECAUSE THIS REFERS TO RAIL STATIONS AND THAT THIS, UH, STREET CAR IS ON A RAIL.
AND I WILL MAKE A COMMENT THAT THE STREET CAR HAS ONLY PD ZONING AROUND IT.
THE ONLY STREET ZONING AROUND THE STREET CAR IS THE CVS THAT'S ALREADY HYPER PARKED.
HAS 70 SPACES
WELL, YOU KNOW, I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THE POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN INDICATED PREVIOUSLY WE PASSED A MINIMUM AMENDMENT TO KEEP PARKING MINIMUMS FOR, UH, THESE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS.
AND I SEE THIS AMENDMENT THAT COMMISSIONER HOUSEWRIGHT HAS OFFERED, UH, HAS BASICALLY, UH, SUPPLANTING THAT AND BASICALLY SAYING THAT NOW IF YOU'VE GOT A, A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT THAT IS WITHIN A HALF MILE OR A QUARTER MILE OF A TOD STATION, THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE PARKING MINIMUMS FOR THOSE DISTRICTS.
AND I THINK THAT COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN'S AMENDMENT IS, UH, PROTECTING, UH, THE, THE, THE WHAT WE, WHAT WE HAD PASSED AND THAT ORIGINAL AMENDMENT IN PROTECTING, UH, THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS.
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS AS WELL.
AND I, AND I, I DO WANNA SAY THE PD, NOT NOT RESPECT, UH, NOTWITHSTANDING WHEN I SPOKE WITH THE FOLKS FROM KID SPRINGS THIS MORNING, THEY FEEL THAT IF WE DO PASS, UH, COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN'S AMENDMENT THAT THIS WILL PROTECT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, THOUGH PDS, UH, 4 68, AND I THINK IT WAS 8 34, A LITTLE BIT, THERE ARE A LOT OF PDS AROUND THE STREET CAR.
ALL OF THOSE HAVE VERY SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WITH PARKING REDUCTION.
BUT NOW, I, I WILL TELL YOU, IN ALL HONESTY, I TRIED TO FIGURE THAT OUT THIS MORNING.
PD 4 68, HALF OF THE PD THAT HAS, I WILL TELL YOU HOW MANY PAGES IS ONLY ABOUT PARKING.
LIKE IT IS, IT'S GONNA BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR US OR FOR ME TO JUST LIKE VENTURE TO GUESS.
HOW IS THE PARKING CODE AMENDMENT OR THE PARKING REFORM IS GONNA IMPACT 4 68? I WILL TELL YOU THE PD IS HEAVILY, HEAVILY ABOUT PARKING.
SO WE WILL HAVE TO LIKE TEST IT OUT WITH PERMITS BECAUSE IT HAS SOME RATIOS.
IT HAS, UH, IT DEFAULTS TO THE CODE IN SOME AREAS.
IT HAS REDUCTIONS FOR STREETCAR.
IT, IT HAS ITS OWN DEFINITIONS.
IT'S A WHOLE NEW CODE IN ITSELF.
SO I CANNOT, MY ANSWER, I'M SORRY, IS NOT A STRAIGHT YES OR NO.
IF IT'S GONNA PROTE PROTECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD PER THIS MOTION, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THERE ARE PDDS THAT HAVE AN UNDERLYING BASE, UH, ZONING THAT IS RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
PD ONE 60 WAS REFERENCED EARLIER.
SO THIS AMENDMENT WOULD PROTECT THOSE PDS, THAT PD YES.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE AMENDMENT TO THE AMENDMENT.
IT'S NOT JUST SCHOOLS WITHIN RESIDENTIAL DUPLEX AND TEACH DISTRICTS.
IT SCHOOLS WITHIN HALF A MILE OR A QUARTER MILE OF TRANSIT.
THAT IS COMMISSIONER FORESIGHT'S POINT.
BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S THE MOTION THAT WE HAVE ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW.
BECAUSE WE HE COULDN'T OR DID HE MAKE, I BELIEVE THAT IS THE MOTION ON THE WALL.
IT'S THE, ESSENTIALLY THE RESIDENTIAL USES.
AND COMMISSIONER FORESITE IS ADDING PLUS SCHOOLS.
WITH THE ORIGINAL MOTION, THERE WOULD BE NO REQUIREMENT
[03:20:01]
FOR LOADING OR, OR ANY KINDA OFF STREET PARKING.NONE OF THAT STUFF WOULD APPLY ANYMORE.
MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE MOTION WAS THAT IT WAS REALLY, IT WAS PARKING FOCUSED.
AND SO THE, THE LOADING, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS INTENDED TO BE AS PART OF THIS, BUT THE MOTIONS SAYS ELIMINATE ALL MINIMUMS. IT'S REALLY, IT IS REALLY ABOUT PARKING, NOT ABOUT LOADING.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT, UM, SOME LANGUAGE THAT WE FROM STAFF ABOUT HOW YOU THINK ABOUT LOADING THAT WE COULD, I THINK WOULD STILL APPLY.
SO THE LOADING AND AND SHORT TERM DROP OFF AND PICK UP PROVISIONS THAT WE VOTED ON LAST TIME WOULD STILL BE APPLICABLE.
I WOULD ASK COMMISSIONER HOUSE, RIGHT.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE HIERARCHY OF HOW WE'RE DOING THINGS.
UM, IN THAT CASE, I HAVE ANOTHER FRIENDLY AMENDMENT I'D LIKE TO OFFER.
WOULD YOU CONSIDER, INCLUDING IN YOUR AMENDMENT, UM, THE PROVISIONS WE'VE INCLUDED ON BARS, RESTAURANTS, AND INDOOR AND OUTDOOR AMUSEMENT AS EXCLUSIONS? THE ONES WE'VE ALREADY VOTED ON? YES.
IF IT'S, IF WE WANT IT TO BE, UH, CONSISTENT ACROSS THE CITY OF DALLAS, LET'S DO THAT.
CAN I CLARIFY TO SAY THAT BARS, RESTAURANTS, AND COMMERCIAL BUS MONEY SIDE OUTSIDE, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED IN RD AND TH, BUT THIS IS, SO YOU INTEND FOR ANY DISTRICT, THIS IS WITHIN HALF MILE AND QUARTER MILE OF TRANSIT IN ANY, BECAUSE COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN'S AMO, UH, AMENDMENT ONLY REFERRED TO RD AND TH.
YOU, I THINK YOU WERE MAKING AN AMENDMENT TO COMMISSIONER HOUSE RIGHTS MOTION.
WELL, THAT WAS THE QUESTION I ASKED EARLIER.
I, WHAT WHAT I, WHAT I'VE HEARD COMMERS FRANKLIN WAS LIMITED.
THAT'S A, MY QUESTION I ASKED RDTH, THE LAND USES THAT WE'RE PICKING OUT ARE OUTSIDE OF RDTH, JUST ANYTHING WITHIN THE DISTANCE.
THAT'S SCHOOLS, BARS, ET CETERA.
WELL, THAT WAS A CLARIFYING QUESTION.
I ASKED ABOUT SCHOOLS AND THEY SAID YES.
AND SO I JUST ADDED TO THE LIST.
SO IF THAT ANSWER HAS CHANGED, HE, I BELIEVE HE DID ACCEPT THAT.
YOU DID ACCEPT THAT COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN? I DID.
BUT THE MORE WE TALK, THE MORE CONFUSING IT GETS.
LET ME TELL YOU WHAT THE SPIRIT OF WHAT I WANTED TO DO.
THE FIRST THING WE VOTED ON SAYS THIS.
I MEAN, I BELIEVE WE APPROVED THAT KEEPING MINIMUMS IN RD AND TH DISTRICTS AND REDUCED MINIMUMS TO ONE SPACE PER UNIT THAT WAS APPROVED FOR FOR SINGLE FAMILY USES.
SO WE ADDED THAT PROVISION INTO THAT FIRST VOTE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ITEM NUMBER ONE.
THAT WAS FOR ANY DWELLING UNITS, I THINK FOR THE, YES.
BECAUSE WE, WE, WE USED THE WORD DISTRICTS THERE, AND I DIDN'T MAKE THAT DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE DISTRICTS AND THE DWELLING UNIT.
SO I ONLY FOUND OUT THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT NOW, SO ARE WE SAYING IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT THAT WE VOTED ON, THAT'S A MORE BROADER PROTECTION FOR OKAY, THEN THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT THEN, BECAUSE I WANT THE SAME PROTECTIONS AS WHAT'S IN, IN ONE A.
SO BASED, AND THEN IF YOU HAVE SINGLE FAMILY USES THAT ARE IN MF, BECAUSE THOSE ARE ALLOWED IN MF THEY WOULD BE ZERO.
YOU JUST NEED THE PROTECTION FOR NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE ZONED R-D-N-T-H AND ONLY FOR SINGLE FAMILY USES FOR ANY DWELLING, ANY DWELLING UNIT FOR ANY OTHER DWELLING UNITS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN RB AND T DUPLEX.
CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION? I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S PRETTY HARD TO FOLLOW.
PROBABLY BETTER TO TAKE IT ONE OR ONE BY ONE, BUT IT'S JUST MY SUGGESTION.
MR. TRU, MAYBE I CAN YOU WANNA CALL THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, THIS GORDIAN NOT, MAYBE THIS ISN'T THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.
BUT I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THE AMENDMENT TO THE AMENDMENT IS CONTRARY TO THE ORIGINAL AMENDMENT.
SO I'D CALL A POINT OF ORDER AGAINST FURTHER CONSIDERATION.
I I THINK THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE, THAT MAYBE WE WILL TAKE THAT AS A SEPARATE VOTE.
[03:25:01]
THE, THE MO THE AMENDMENT THAT WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN WITH THE ADDITION OF THE THE SCHOOL.SO WE HAVE A, UH, ELIMINATION OF ALL MINIMUMS FOR ALL USES EXCEPT FOR RD AND TH WITHIN A QUARTER MILE RADIUS OF THE RAIL TOD STATION.
AND WITH THE ADDITIONAL OF THE SCHOOL DISCUSSION OF THAT COMMISSIONER HOUSER.
YEAH, I'D JUST LIKE TO SPEAK TO WHY I CAN'T SUPPORT THAT MOTION.
UM, IF WE DRIVE AROUND OUR CITY AND LOOK AT OUR DART STATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD LITERALLY FOR DECADES, WE HAVE VIRTUALLY NO TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT IN THIS CITY.
AND THE REASON WE HAVE NO TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY IS THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY SEES NO VALUE IN IT.
THEY DON'T, IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE THE NEEDLE FOR THEM.
IN MY DISTRICT, I'VE GOT A TOD, UH, OPPORTUNITY WITH ZERO DEVELOPMENT.
THERE'S A PARKING LOT AND A CANOPY TO GET ON THE TRAIN.
I'VE GOT ANOTHER ONE THAT BUILT A MULTIFAMILY NEXT TO THE STATION, AND THEY USED ABOUT HALF OF THEIR ENTITLEMENT AND SURFACE PARKED IT.
UM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T, THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY SEES THIS LAND AROUND THESE TOD STATIONS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER LAND.
AND THEY APPLY THE SAME SORT OF DEVELOPMENT CRITERIA TO IT, UH, TO UNDERWRITE IT.
AND, UM, THIS MOTION IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM PROVIDES A SIGNIFICANT INCENTIVE TO GET DEVELOPMENT GOING AROUND OUR TOD STATIONS WHEN WE CARVE OUT VARIOUS USES AND SAY, OH, NO, WE REALLY DIDN'T MEAN THAT ONE, AND WE REALLY DIDN'T MEAN THIS OTHER ONE.
WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS WE KINDA LIKE OUR SUBURBAN, UH, ATMOSPHERE OF OUR CITY.
WE KINDA LIKE OUR SUBURBAN DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS.
UM, WE'RE REALLY NOT INTERESTED IN NEW TYPES OF HOUSING.
WE'RE REALLY NOT INTERESTED IN A TRANSIT ORIENTED CHURCH.
WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN A TRANSIT ORIENTED GRADE SCHOOL.