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>> THIS WEBINAR IS BEING TRANSCRIBED AND SUMMARIZED.
[Economic Development & Committee on Finance on November 3, 2025.]
>> THE VOICE OF CITY HALL, YELLING AT US ALREADY.
WELCOME TO THIS JOINT MEETING OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND FINANCE COMMITTEE ON NOVEMBER 3RD, 2025.
AT THIS POINT, I WILL CALL THE FINANCE COMMITTEE TO ORDER, AND I HAVE DETERMINED THERE IS A QUORUM OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE PRESENT. SURE.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON. IT'S NOVEMBER 3RD.
THE TIME IS 1:05, AND WE HAVE A QUORUM OF THE ECO DEV COMMITTEE.
>> I'D LIKE TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING MOTION.
I MOVE THAT CHAIR WEST ACT AS THE CHAIR OF THIS JOINT MEETING.
>> ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.
HERE'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, COLLEAGUES.
THIS MEETING IS THE JOINT MEETING.
WE'LL GET THROUGH THIS, ASK QUESTIONS.
IF WE NEED TO GO TO EXECUTIVE SESSION, WE WILL.
WHEN THAT IS OVER, I KNOW CHAIR MORENO HAS HIS OWN COMMITTEE MEETING, WHICH WE'LL CONTINUE ON.
JUST A FEW SHORT WORDS, THEN I'M GOING TO TURN OVER TO MY FELLOW CHAIR HERE.
AS WE BEGIN TODAY'S DISCUSSION, HERE'S SOME BACKGROUND ON THE PURPOSE.
WHILE SOME HAVE SAID THAT THIS DISCUSSION FEELS RUSHED, I WANT TO REITERATE THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DEFERRED MAINTENANCE IN OUR REAL ESTATE PORTFOLIO FOR YEARS.
THE CONVERSATION ABOUT CITY HALL'S DEFERRED MAINTENANCE DATES BACK TO THE 2012 BOND DISCUSSION, AT LEAST AS FAR AS I KNOW, WHEN CITY COUNCIL CHOSE TO KICK MOST OF THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.
AGAIN, IN 2017, COUNCIL DECIDED TO DEFER ACTION ON FUNDING CITY HALL REPAIRS.
JUST LAST YEAR, THIS COUNCIL, MANY OF WHOM ARE STILL SERVING TODAY, MYSELF INCLUDED, CHOSE TO PRIORITIZE OTHER URGENT CITY NEEDS AND REMOVE FUNDING FOR CITY HALL IMPROVEMENTS.
OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, DURING MY TIME AS GPFM CHAIR, WE DISCUSSED OUR REAL ESTATE PLAN EVERY SINGLE MONTH.
WE REVIEWED A NUMBER OF FACILITIES, INCLUDING THE OAK CLIFF MUNICIPAL FACILITY, KNOWN AS THE PERMIT OFFICE, THE FACILITY ON CANTON, THE DATA CENTER IN THE CEDARS, THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP AT THE OLD DALLAS MORNING NEWS BUILDING, AND MORE THAN A DOZEN OTHER REAL ESTATE ITEMS. WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO DISCUSS THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AT FAIR PARK AND ITS MANY IMPORTANT, HISTORICALLY LANDMARKED BUILDINGS.
IT SHOULD COME AS NO SURPRISE THAT CITY HALL, ONE OF THE CITY'S LARGEST REAL ESTATE ASSETS, IS NOW BEFORE US FOR FURTHER EXAMINATION.
WHETHER THE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE NEEDS TOTAL $152 MILLION OR $345 MILLION, THAT DIFFERENCE SHOULD NOT PREVENT US FROM HAVING THIS LONG OVERDUE CONVERSATION.
WE OWE IT TO OUR TAXPAYERS TO FULLY UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE OPTIONS BEFORE US.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE AT THIS JOINT MEETING TODAY.
I WANT TO THANK MY CO-CHAIR, MAYOR PRO TEM MORENO, FOR CO-CHAIRING THIS DISCUSSION.
THE DISCUSSION BEFORE US IS THIS.
DO WE FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF OTHER CITIES LIKE FORT WORTH THAT HAVE MOVED THEIR CITY HALL AND REVITALIZED AND REPURPOSED A BUILDING IN THEIR URBAN CORE, OR DO WE MAKE THE MUCH OVERDUE INVESTMENT INTO THE BUILDING WE'RE IN TODAY TO ENSURE IT CAN SERVE RESIDENTS FOR DECADES TO COME? ANOTHER WAY OF THINKING ABOUT IT IS THIS.
THIS BUILDING IS A LOT LIKE AN OLD CAR.
AT FIRST, THE SMALL INEXPENSIVE REPAIRS MAKE SENSE, BUT AT SOME POINT, BASIC MAINTENANCE ISN'T ENOUGH.
YOU EITHER HAVE TO INVEST IN A BRAND NEW TRANSMISSION OR YOU DECIDE THE COST IS NOT JUSTIFIABLE AND YOU GO OUT AND BUY A NEW CAR.
WE HAVE A FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY TO OUR TAXPAYERS TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE OPTIONS, AND MY HOPE AND VISION FOR TODAY'S PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSIONS IS THAT IT WILL PROVIDE THE COMMITTEE AND COUNCIL MEMBERS WITH THE INFORMATION WE NEED TO MAKE THIS IMPORTANT AND LONG OVERDUE DECISION. CHAIR.
>> THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON, COLLEAGUES.
I BELIEVE BIG CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS CAN BE HEALTHY AND RESPECTFUL WHEN WE ALL DO OUR PART.
LET'S MAINTAIN A RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE.
LET'S REMAIN GERMANE IN THIS MEETING.
LET'S BE SURE THAT WE STAY WITHIN THE SCOPE OF TODAY'S DISCUSSION.
WE ARE HERE TO RECEIVE INFORMATION FROM STAFF AND TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE AS STAFF EVALUATES IMPORTANT DECISIONS.
ULTIMATELY, WE MAKE THE DECISION ON THIS, NOT STAFF.
WE AREN'T TAKING A VOTE TODAY.
HOWEVER, I DO WANT STAFF TO FEEL COMFORTABLE KNOWING THE EXPECTED TIMELINE FOR A COMPREHENSIVE RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE A SIDE-BY-SIDE COMPREHENSIONS OF COST ANALYSIS FOR DIFFERENT OPTIONS.
WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT A RESPONSIBLE TIMELINE IS DEVELOPED WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF OUR ANNUAL BUDGET.
WE HAVE MANY LARGE PRIORITIES ON THE HORIZON THAT WILL REQUIRE FUNDING SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CONVERSATIONS PAYS RESPECT TO THE BUDGET ROLES IN THE DISCUSSION.
I ALSO WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF PRESERVATION IN THIS DISCUSSION.
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DALLAS IS RELATIVELY A YOUNG CITY IN THIS COUNTRY, AND WE MUST PRESERVE WHAT WE CAN.HOWEVER, WE ALSO NEED TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE PRESERVING OUR FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY AS THE STEWARDS OF OUR CITY.
IT'S NOT AN EASY DECISION, BUT IT'S ONE WE WILL MAKE TOGETHER RESPECTFULLY.
I FIRST WANT TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING SUFFICIENT GUIDANCE TO RECEIVE GOOD INFORMATION ON OPTIONS FOR CITY HALL, AND THEN I WANT US TO LOOK AT THE BEST POSSIBLE USE FOR THIS SITE.
WITH THAT, I WILL RETURN IT BACK OVER TO OUR CHAIR.
WE'LL ASK STAFF TO COME ON UP HERE.
I HAD A COUPLE OF COLLEAGUES ASK ME ABOUT WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GO BACK TO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
I THINK TODAY, THE DOORS ARE OPEN QUITE A BIT MORE THAN THEY WERE DURING THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.
TODAY, IT IS CERTAINLY ON THE TABLE TO TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THIS JOINT COMMITTEE MEETING.
IF ANY TYPE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT COME UP, THAT'S IN MY MIND GERMANE UP HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT.
IF STAFF IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON SOMETHING, I THINK THAT'S THE KIND OF THING WE WOULD GO TO THE BACK FOR IF IT COMES TO EVALUATION OF THE PROPERTY HERE, IF THAT'S A TOPIC THAT COMES UP, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION BECAUSE YOU DON'T PUT YOUR EVALUATION OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC.
IT WOULD HURT YOUR BIDDING PROCESS.
OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK THE PARAMETERS ARE QUITE A BIT MORE OPEN.
I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO OUR ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER.
DONZELL GIBSON, CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE.
I'D LIKE TO START THE MEETING TODAY BY TALKING ABOUT JUST REAL BRIEFLY, JOHN JOHNSON, THE DIRECTOR OF FACILITIES AND REAL ESTATE MANAGEMENT.
I JUST ASK THAT EVERYONE HAVE HIS FAMILY IN YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS.
THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE LOSS OF A LOVED ONE.
THAT'S WHY JOHN'S NOT HERE TODAY.
YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT JOHN LED THE BRIEFING JUST TWO WEEKS AGO, AND SO THAT IS THE REASON FOR HIS ABSENCE TODAY.
I HAVE FLANK TO MY RIGHT, BRIAN THOMPSON, WHO IS THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF FACILITIES AND REAL ESTATE MANAGEMENT.
HE WILL BE HERE TO SUPPORT TODAY'S BRIEF.
I ALSO HAVE ROSA FLEMING TO MY LEFT, WHO'S THE DIRECTOR OF CONVENTION AND EVENT SERVICES, WHO WILL ALSO SUPPORT TODAY'S BRIEF.
LET'S START WITH SLIDE NUMBER 3, PLEASE.
TODAY, WE'RE GOING TO CLARIFY THE DEPTH OF DEFERRED MAINTENANCE NEEDS AT CITY HALL, WE'RE GOING TO CONVEY THE REALITIES OF ITS CURRENT CONDITION, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS AND OPTIONS FOR CITY HALL, AND WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW AND OVERVIEW THE BUSINESS CASE AND ECONOMIC ANALYSIS CONSIDERATIONS.
WE'RE ALSO GOING TO DISCUSS THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT TWO WEEKS AGO FROM THE FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING. SLIDE 6, PLEASE.
WHY THE DISCUSSION ON DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AND WHY NOW? I THINK CHAIR WEST BROUGHT IT UP, SAID IT BEST, BUT I WILL SAY FOR STAFF'S END OF THE BUSINESS, IN AUGUST THE 29, 2025 MEMO, THE MAYOR LAID OUT HIS COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS, AND HE GAVE A PUBLIC POLICY CHARGE TO EACH COMMITTEE.
I'LL READ HIS CHARGE TO THE FINANCE COMMITTEE, WHICH WAS DETERMINE WHETHER DALLAS CITY HALL AND OTHER MUNICIPAL FACILITIES EFFECTIVELY SUPPORT CITY OPERATIONS AND BEST SERVE THE CITIZENS OF DALLAS.
CONSIDER ALL POTENTIAL OPTIONS AND IDENTIFY THE MOST FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE COURSE TO ADDRESS THE MOUNTING DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AND CARRYING COSTS OF DALLAS CITY HALL.
THE INITIAL BRIEFING THAT WE PROVIDED RELATED TO DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AT CITY HALL TOOK PLACE ON OCTOBER 21ST BEFORE THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.
BASED ON THEIR FEEDBACK AND QUESTIONS, WE INFUSED THAT ORIGINAL BRIEFING FOR THE SLIDE DECK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT TODAY.
SOME OF THE SLIDES MAY LOOK VERY FAMILIAR BECAUSE THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY USED IN THE PRIOR BRIEFING. SLIDE 7, PLEASE.
WHY DO WE HAVE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AT CITY HALL? THAT WAS A REAL BIG QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED THAT LAST MEETING AND I'LL GIVE A VERY SHORT ANSWER TO THAT.
THE CITY HAS A LONG HISTORY OF PRIORITIZING OTHER INITIATIVES OVER FACILITY MAINTENANCE NEEDS.
I DON'T SAY THAT AS A CRITICISM.
I SAY IT MORE AS A REALITY OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH WHEN YOU'RE BALANCING PRIORITIES. SLIDE 8, PLEASE.
SLIDE 8 IS A CHART THAT GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION AT THE LAST MEETING.
IT'S A CHART THAT DEPICTS A WHOLE RANGE OF THINGS THAT ARE DEFICIENCIES HERE AT CITY HALL, AND IT'S GOT A MINIMUM AND A HIGH RANGE OF WHAT THOSE POTENTIAL REPLACEMENT AND REPAIR COSTS MAY BE TO THE CITY.
IN THE NEXT SLIDE, I'M GOING TO GO OVER AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL HOW STAFF CAME UP WITH THOSE NUMBERS BECAUSE THAT WAS A GREAT QUESTION IN THE LAST MEETING.
IN GENERAL, THE MINIMUM ESTIMATE ASSUMES LIMITED TARGET REPAIRS, AND THE HIRING REFLECTS FULL SYSTEM REPLACEMENT.
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SLIDE 9, PLEASE. WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS I'M GOING TO DROP THE ESTIMATES THAT WERE IN THE SLIDE DECK ON THE CHART ON SLIDE 8 INTO THREE DIFFERENT BUCKETS.THE FIRST BUCKET IS A SERIES OF VENDOR ESTIMATES AND VERY RECENT QUOTES, QUOTES SO RECENT THAT IN THEORY, IF WE HAD ADEQUATE FUNDING, WOULD BE SHOVEL-READY PROJECTS THAT WE COULD START TOMORROW.
THE PREVIOUS ESTIMATES OR THE SECOND COMPONENT HAVE BEEN ADJUSTED FOR TODAY'S DALLAS.
MEANING, STAFF GOT ESTIMATE FIVE, 10 YEARS AGO, AND WE ADJUSTED THAT ESTIMATE FOR IN SOME INSTANCES, SCOPE, AND TO ADJUST TO TODAY'S DOLLARS.
THEN THE THIRD AND FINAL BUCKET IS A SERIES OF ESTIMATES THAT WE HAVE PULLED TOGETHER BASED ON OUR HISTORICAL EXPERIENCE IN WORKING AND DEALING WITH CITY FACILITIES.
SLIDE 10, PLEASE. THE FIRST BUCKET, THE VENDOR ESTIMATES AND RECENT QUOTES.
THIS IS MOST SUPPORTED BY THIRD-PARTY VENDOR ASSESSMENTS AND QUOTES, AND THE SUBSEQUENT SLIDES ALSO FURTHER DEPICT THE BREADTH AND SCOPE OF THE WORK. WE CAN SKIP ON.
SKIP OVER TO SLIDE 14, PLEASE.
THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE THE ESTIMATES BASED ON HISTORICAL EXPERIENCE AT CITY FACILITIES.
A LOT OF THE EMPHASIS WAS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS PARTICULAR SLIDE OR THIS PARTICULAR LINE ITEM WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE GARAGE STRUCTURAL REPAIRS.
MOST OF THAT IS DUE TO A SERIES OF UNKNOWNS THAT THERE'S JUST NO WAY THAT WE CAN KNOW WITHOUT SOMEONE DOING AN ACTUAL STRUCTURAL ASSESSMENT.
WHAT WE DID WAS, WE WERE ABLE TO GET TWO STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS TO COME IN AND GIVE US A ROUGH ORDER OF MAGNITUDE OF WHETHER OR NOT OUR ESTIMATES WERE ACCURATE OR NOT, AND WE WERE ABLE TO DO SO.
WE HAD CLINT CODY WITH HUNT & JOINER AND KEITH BURKE WITH BURKE MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS, WHO CAME IN AND SAID, YES, YOUR ESTIMATE IS ACCURATE.
IT'S IN THE RANGE OF WHAT WE WOULD EXPECT, DEPENDING ON THE SCOPE AND THE BREADTH OF THE WORK AND ALL THE UNKNOWNS ASSOCIATED.
I'M NOT GOING TO SPEND A BUNCH OF TIME ON SLIDE 17 TO SLIDES 23.
THEY SHOW A VARIOUS NUMBER OF PICTURES AND DEPICTIONS OF THINGS THAT WE DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS HERE AT CITY HALL, INCLUDING A BATHROOM THAT JUST FLOODED JUST LAST WEEK, THAT WE DEALT WITH LATE LAST WEEK.
IT'S A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE ON THIS SLIDE HERE AND I WON'T GO THROUGH THE OTHER ONES IS IN THE PAYROLL.
I ACTUALLY WENT DOWNSTAIRS MYSELF WHEN THIS WAS GOING ON AND ACTUALLY HAD A CHANCE TO SEE WHAT THE EMPLOYEES HERE IN THE BUILDING WERE HAVING TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE SITUATIONS IN THE SAME AREA DIRECTLY RELATED TO WATER INFILTRATION THAT HAD BEEN ADDRESSED.
I'M GOING TO SKIP ON SLIDE 24, PLEASE.
ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WAS ASKED AT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WAS, JUST AS MUCH AS HOW DID WE GET HERE, WHAT WERE THE OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE DONE ANYTHING ABOUT THIS BUILDING? IN MOST CASES, WE SHARED WITH THEM THAT THESE LARGE MAJOR MAINTENANCE, THESE LARGE TICKET ITEMS ARE TYPICALLY FUNDED THROUGH OUR BOND PROGRAM PROPOSITIONS.
THERE WAS INFORMATION THAT WAS REQUESTED.
WELL, GIVE US SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THESE PRIOR BOND PROGRAM PROPOSITIONS. WHAT DID WE KNOW? WHAT DID STAFF ASK FOR, AND THEN HOW DID WE RESPOND COLLECTIVELY? STARTING ON SLIDE 25, PLEASE. THANK YOU.
AT ONE POINT DURING A CITY COUNCIL PRESENTATION, $400 MILLION WAS ACTUALLY IDENTIFIED FOR CITY FACILITIES THAT WOULD HAVE ALSO INCLUDED CITY HALL.
BUT BACK THEN, COLLECTIVELY, IT WAS DETERMINED THAT FLOOD CONTROL AND DRAINAGE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND STREETS AND ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS WERE GOING TO BE THE EMPHASIS OF THE 2012 BOND PROGRAM.
THERE WERE NO CITY FACILITIES ADDRESSED IN THE 2012 BOND PROGRAM. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
THE 2017 BOND PROGRAM, ONLY $7 MILLION THROUGH THAT PROCESS, THROUGH THE BOND TASK FORCE, WAS MOVED FORWARD, AND THEN EVENTUALLY PUT INTO A PROPOSITION, $7 MILLION FOR CITY HALL 2017 BOND PROGRAM.
MOVING ON TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, SLIDE 27.
THE 2024 BOND PROGRAM, $61 MILLION WAS REQUESTED FOR CITY HALL SPECIFICALLY, AND THE COMMUNITY BOND TASK FORCE ADVANCED APPROXIMATELY $28 MILLION TO THIS BODY.
AT SOME SUBSEQUENT MEETING, THE CITY COUNCIL DECIDED TO TAKE THAT $28 MILLION AND IT WAS REALLOCATED TO OTHER PRIORITIES.
TALKING ABOUT PREVIOUS DUE DILIGENCE.
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OFTENTIMES IN A BUILDING LIKE THIS, IN AN EFFORT FOR US TO GET THE GREATEST, HIGHEST BEST USE, WE'LL MOVE DEPARTMENTS AROUND, OR SOME DEPARTMENT WILL NEED TO EXPAND FOR VARIOUS REASONS AND VARIOUS DIFFERENT NEEDS FOR TECHNOLOGY AND OTHERWISE.WE OFTEN RUN INTO SITUATIONS WHERE WE HAVE LIMITATIONS ABOUT WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T DO FOR THE SAID DEPARTMENT OR WHAT THE SAID NEED IS.
SLIDE 28 DEPICTS SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE RUN INTO ABOUT TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE BUILDING.
IF YOU MOVE TO SLIDE 29, IT TALKS ABOUT A MYRIAD OF CONCERNS AND COMPLAINTS THAT WE OFTEN GET FROM STAFF AND FROM VISITORS AT CITY HALL.
WE OFTEN HEAR INCLUDING IN THIS BUILDING THAT IT'S INEFFICIENT HEATING AND COOLING.
I'VE EVEN HAD PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOKINGLY TOLD ME THEY HAVE A HEATER TO THE RIGHT IN OUR OFFICE AND THEY HAVE A FAN TO THE LEFT BECAUSE IN THE MORNING, IT'S TYPICALLY ONE TEMPERATURE AND THEY USE THEIR FAN, AND THEN IN THE EVENING, VICE VERSA.
ANY RANGE OF POSSIBILITIES THERE.
THERE ARE ELECTRICAL CAPACITY ISSUES.
WE OFTEN HAVE BREAKERS TRIP BECAUSE OF THAT.
WE'VE GOT WATER DAMAGE THAT WE'VE HAD TO REMEDIATE IN THE BUILDING.
EVEN ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR, WHEN I FIRST CAME TO THE CITY, THE SEVENTH FLOOR WAS VERY THRIVING PLACE BECAUSE IT HAD A CAFETERIA UPSTAIRS.
BUT BECAUSE OF SUBSEQUENT BUILDING CODE AND THINGS, EVERY TIME WE NEEDED TO RENOVATE IT, IT WAS JUST DECIDED IT WOULD BE CHEAPER OR BETTER FOR US TO CLOSE IT.
JUST AN EXAMPLE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO BEST USE A SPACE THAT, AT ONE TIME, WAS THRIVING IN THE BUILDING. SLIDE 31.
WHAT DO WE DO AFTER TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS DEFERRED MAINTENANCE? A MAJOR CAPITAL INVESTMENT IS NEEDED TO ADDRESS CITY HALL'S AGING SYSTEMS AND INFRASTRUCTURE, AND FUNDING NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED TO GO ALONG WITH SET STRATEGY.
WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO DEFER THE MAINTENANCE.
THINGS ARE ONLY GOING TO GET COSTLIER AND DIFFERENT EMERGENCY UNPLANNED INCIDENTS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN IN THE BUILDING, THAT ARE GOING TO PUT US IN A POSITION WHERE WE COULD, IN SOME INSTANCES, HAVE TO DELAY SERVICES, DEFER SERVICES, OR EVEN IN SOME INSTANCES, POTENTIALLY SHUT DOWN PORTIONS OF THE BUILDING, AND WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DO THAT.
AS READ ON THIS SLIDE AND I'LL READ THIS FOR EMPHASIS, THE CITY IS AT AN INFLECTION POINT, EITHER BEGIN ADDRESSING THE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT NEEDS OR ACCEPT THE POTENTIAL RISK COSTS AND ALL THE DISRUPTIONS BECAUSE OF DEFERRED MAINTENANCE.
>> SLIDE 32 AND 33, I'M GOING TO COMBINE THEM FOR SAKE OF TIME.
STATUS QUO IS WHAT I JUST TALKED ABOUT.
ALLOW THE SYSTEMS TO FAIL AS UNPLANNED EVENTS AND THEN HAVE STAFF TRY TO RECOVER THE BUILDING AND CONTINUE TO MAKE USE OF THE BUILDING BY DOING WHAT WE'VE ALWAYS DONE RECENTLY.
THIS OPTION IS THE MOST DISRUPTIVE AND THE COSTLIEST OVER TIME.
SLIDE 34 AND 35 TALK ABOUT OPTION 2, WHICH IS TO PLAN AND FUND THE REPAIRS FOR CITY HALL, WHICH IS A GREAT DISCUSSION TODAY ABOUT THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH DOING SO.
WE NEED FEEDBACK ON THESE OPTIONS.
I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT LATER ABOUT WHAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE'S FEEDBACK WAS RELATIVE TO THESE OPTIONS, BUT WE NEED FEEDBACK ALSO FROM THIS BODY TODAY.
IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR EXISTING ESTIMATES, WE WOULD NEED SOME FORM OF A PHASE PLAN TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT EVEN SPEND 152-$30,345 MILLION OVER WHAT SPAN OF TIME, HOW WE COULD POTENTIALLY CONNECT THAT WITH AN UPCOMING BOND PROPOSITION.
BECAUSE OF THE VARIOUS UNKNOWNS, AND IT'S THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME, AND I KNOW IN MY LAST CONVERSATIONS WITH JOHN, SOME THINGS THAT ALWAYS KEEPS HIM UP AT NIGHT IS YOU PROVIDE AN ESTIMATE, AND MUCH LIKE WE'VE HAD SOME RECENT EXPERIENCES AT FAMILY GATEWAY, WHICH STARTED AS A $500,000 PROJECT IS AT $3 MILLION NOW, INVARIABLY, WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO THIS BODY WITH CHANGE ORDERS.
THIS BUILDING'S 50-YEARS-OLD AND THEN THERE'S A NON TRADITIONAL BUILDING.
IT'S GOT THINGS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT ARE JUST UNKNOWNS THAT I CAN'T PUT A PRICE TAG ON AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE KNOW OF ANYBODY THAT CAN HELP US DO THAT.
THERE WILL BE VERY LIKELY CHANGE ORDERS COMING THROUGH IF WE DO DECIDE TO FUND THE REPAIRS FOR THIS BUILDING.
CONSIDERATION OF OPTIONS ON SLIDES 36 AND 37, MOVING TO OPTION 3.
OPTION 3 THAT WE LAID OUT AT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE SAID, YOU CAN LEASE SPACE ELSEWHERE.
YOU CAN VISION AT SOME POINT AND DECIDE TO REPLACE CITY HALL BY BUILDING AN ENTIRE NEW BUILDING, OR ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE COULD BE WE COULD ACTUALLY LEASE SPACE.
MOVING ON TO SLIDE 38. THANK YOU.
DURING THE OCTOBER 21, 25 FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING, STAFF RECEIVED THIS FEEDBACK.
STAFF WAS REQUESTED TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION AND
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SUPPORT FOR THE COST ESTIMATES ON THE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE CHART, BUT I'VE LAID OUT.YOUR ALSO REQUESTED PRIOR BOND PROGRAM PROPOSITIONS FOR CITY FACILITIES, WHICH I'VE LAID OUT PREVIOUSLY IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDES, AND THEY ALSO REQUESTED ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS ON OPTION NUMBER 3.
SPECIFICALLY ON OPTION NUMBER 3, THE FINANCE COMMITTEE SHOWED SUPPORT FOR OPTION 3 AND TO LEASE SPACE.
SPEND A LITTLE TIME ON SLIDE 39.
IT'S GOT A LOT OF NUMBERS HERE.
WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO IS IN A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF SPACE CONVEY A LOT OF DIFFERENT THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW TO LOOK AT THE NUMBER.
WE'VE GOT THREE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS THAT ARE PRESENTED ON THIS SLIDE.
IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN TAKE THE CHART ON SLIDE 8 THAT HAS A DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AND YOU'LL BE ABLE TO PAIR IT UP WITH THIS SLIDE BECAUSE THEY'RE HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW, YOU HAVE $152 MILLION DEPICTION.
YOU HAVE A $250 MILLION DEPICTION, WHICH IS THE MID RANGE, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE $345 MILLION DEPICTION.
THEN YOU HAVE A SUBTOTAL BELOW THAT THAT SAYS, THIS IS OVER A 10 YEAR PERIOD, AND WE USE A 10 YEAR PERIOD BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE NORMAL LEASE HORIZON THAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT IN THE COMPARABLES THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING TODAY.
THIS IS WHAT THE COST WOULD BE FOR THAT TIME FRAME TO STAY SHOULD WE DECIDE TO FIX THE BUILDING.
WE PAIRED THAT WITH SUPPORT THAT WE RECEIVE FOR COST ESTIMATES FOR USING 400,000 SQUARE FEET SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CBD THAT WOULD MEET ALMOST ALL OR IF NOT MORE OF OUR NEEDS AND PROVIDE THE CITY WITH EVEN GREATER OPTIONS THAN POTENTIALLY WHAT WE HAVE TODAY BECAUSE OF SOME LIMITATIONS, MUCH LIKE THE CAFETERIA AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT I WAS SHARING WITH YOU MUCH EARLIER.
THOSE COST ESTIMATES WERE PROVIDED BY STREAM REALTY.
I WANT TO THANK THEM FOR COMING IN AND ON THE SPOT, BEING ABLE TO RUN SOME ANALYSIS ON WHAT SOME POTENTIAL COSTS WOULD BE IN THE CBD FOR THIS TYPE OF STOCK.
THEN THE LAST ROW THERE, IT'S A SAVINGS OR A VARIANCE TO STAY VERSUS LEASING BASED ON ALL THREE SCENARIOS.
FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S THE SAME SCHEMA, EXCEPT THIS IS OPTION B, AND THE MAIN THEME OF THE CHANGE HERE IN OPTION B, AND THE MAIN SWING OF THE COST BETWEEN OPTION A AND OPTION B IS THE TYPE OF REAL ESTATE THAT WE DECIDE THAT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE INTO, WHICH IS A DECISION THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD EVENTUALLY HAVE TO MAKE IF YOU DECIDED NOT TO REPAIR OR IF YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED US TO MOVE OUT OF THIS BUILDING INTO A LEASE SPACE.
BUT AGAIN, 400,000 SQUARE FEET.
I DIDN'T MENTION THIS ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, BUT THAT WOULD BE APPLES TO APPLES, EXCUSE ME, 2,200 EMPLOYEES.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT WOULD BE ON THE LOWER END AS IT RELATED TO LEASE SPACE IN THE CBD.
AGAIN, THE SAME SUBTOTAL TO STAY VERSUS THE SUBTOTAL TO LEASE, GIVING YOU A ROUGH ORDER OF MAGNITUDE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SAVINGS A BODY WOULD IT BE TO LEASE TO STAY OR TO LEASE.
OPTION 3, I'D LIKE TO GIVE A LOT OF FOOTNOTES TO OPTION 3, WHETHER YOU'RE LOOKING AT, LEASE OPTION B ON SLIDE 40 OR YOU'RE LOOKING AT LEASE OPTION A ON SLIDE 39.
THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT NEED TO BE THOUGHT THROUGH BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EXACTLY ACCOUNTED FOR ON THESE SLIDES, BUT THEY ARE PART OF THE DECISION THOUGHT PROCESS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD THINK THROUGH.
IT DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR ANY PROCEEDS OR THE SALE OR LEASE OF CITY HALL.
IT DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR ANY POTENTIAL SALES TAX, HOT TAX, PROPERTY TAX, OR ANY ECONOMIC BENEFIT OF DEVELOPING THIS SITE FOR ANOTHER USE AND OR ITS ECONOMIC BENEFIT TO ALL THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES.
IT DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR WHAT THE ONGOING COST TO MAINTAIN CITY HALL THAT AN INDUSTRY STANDARD WOULD BE.
I'VE GOT BRIAN HERE TO MY RIGHT, THAT WOULD PROBABLY SUGGEST TO YOU THAT TODAY THE DOLLARS THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH TAKING CARE OF THIS BUILDING DON'T MEET THAT INDUSTRY STANDARD, AND THAT'S HOW WE LAPSE INTO DEFERRED MAINTENANCE.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE US 152 MILLION OR 250 MILLION OR 345 MILLION, WE'D HAVE TO MAKE SURE OUR ONGOING ONM MATCH THAT NEW STANDARD OF CARE THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE IN THE BUILDING.
OTHERWISE, ONLY YEARS LATER, WE'D END UP WITH MORE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AND HAVING THIS SIMILAR CONVERSATION ALL OVER AGAIN.
IT DOESN'T INCLUDE ESTIMATED SECURITY COSTS, DEPENDING ON THE FINISH OUT, DEPENDING ON WHERE WE WOULD GO.
ALSO, IT DOESN'T FACTOR IN POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL NEGOTIATIONS THAT WE COULD HAVE.
WE HAVEN'T TALKED TO ANYBODY ABOUT MOVING OUT AT ALL.
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THIS IS ALL JUST IN THEORY, BUT WE COULD, AND WE WOULD HOPE THAT WITH OUR BUSINESS NEED AND THE TERM OF THE LEASE THAT WE WOULD HAVE, THE CITY WENT ENDED WITH A LOT OF GOOD LEVERAGE IN THE CBD BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING VACANCY RATE THAT'S HERE.SLIDE 42. JUST SOME DEPICTIONS OF SOME PEOPLE HAVE ASKED AND WE WENT OVER THIS IN THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WAS, HAS ANYBODY ELSE DONE THIS RECENTLY? ARE WE UNIQUE IN THIS THOUGHT PROCESS? NO, WE'RE NOT.
THERE'S SOME GOOD EXAMPLES HERE ON SLIDE 42 I WON'T WALK THROUGH.
THEN ON SLIDE 43, WE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A GOOD DEPICTION OF SOME PLACES IN DOWNTOWN THAT ACTUALLY HAVE THE TYPE OF VACANCY SPACE THAT WE WOULD NEED FOR OUR BASIC NEED THAT WAS LAID OUT, THE 400,000 SQUARE FEET IN AN EFFORT TO SUPPORT ROUGHLY 2,200 EMPLOYEES.
I SAID A MOUTHFUL, AND I DID THAT QUICKLY BECAUSE THE CHAIR ASKED ME TO MOVE QUICKLY, AND HOPEFULLY I'M MEETING HIS NEED THERE.
WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO AT THIS POINT IS TO TRANSITION OVER TO ROSA FLEMING, WHO WILL TAKE US THROUGH THE REMAINDER OF THE PRESENTATION, AND I'LL DO THE WRAP UP WITH THE NEXT STEP SLIDE. ROSA?
>> THANK YOU, DONZELL. I'M ROSA FLEMING, DIRECTOR FOR CONVENTION AND EVENTS SERVICES.
AS MR. GIBSON WAS SAYING, BASED ON THE FINANCE COMMITTEE'S DISCUSSION IN OCTOBER OF OPTION 3, WE WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT THE BUSINESS CASE FOR THAT OPTION.
THE TIMING, OBVIOUSLY, ALL OF YOU HAVE SAT THROUGH BRIEFINGS ABOUT THE KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON CONVENTION CENTER MASTER PLAN.
THIS TIES WELL WITH THE REDEVELOPMENT OF ANY SURPLUS LAND THAT EMANATES FROM THE KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON CONVENTION CENTER MASTER PLAN, WHICH CALLS FOR FREEING UP APPROXIMATELY 30 ACRES.
LIKE THE CONVENTION CENTER, ANY NON GOVERNMENTAL USE OF THIS PROPERTY WOULD RESULT IN AN INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAX REVENUE AS NEITHER THIS BUILDING NOR THE CONVENTION CENTER CONTRIBUTE TO THE TAX BASE AT PRESENT.
THE MOMENTUM FROM THE CONVENTION CENTER REDEVELOPMENT HAS SPAWNED THROUGH DOWNTOWN, AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT.
WE LOOK AT SOME OF OUR STUDIES WHICH STOPPED AT MARLA AND ACRE.
THEY DID NOT CROSS THE STREET, TO LOOK AT THIS 15 ACREAGE, BUT TO LOOK AT THAT IN TERMS OF HOW THAT DEVELOPMENT COULD FOSTER AND CREATE CONTINUITY.
WE'VE LISTENED TO DOWNTOWN DALLAS INC. WE'VE LISTENED TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND OTHERS WHO HAVE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE LAGS AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF DOWNTOWN AND SOME OF THE VACANCY RATES.
THOSE THINGS CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO LEVERAGE WHAT'S GOING ON IN DOWNTOWN, AND AS MR. GIBSON SAID, TO FIND A PROPERTY THAT WE CAN LIVE IN AS THE CENTER OF DOWNTOWN.
NEXT SLIDE. IF WE GO TO SLIDE 47, I'M NOT GOING TO SIT ON THESE SLIDES TOO LONG.
ALL OF YOU HAVE SEEN THESE AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC A FEW TIMES, BUT THE PROJECT VISION AND GOALS OF THE MASTER PLAN ARE REALLY TO CATALYZE GROWTH IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, TO LOOK AT HOW WE TAKE THE CONVENTION CENTER OFF OF THE MAP AS A BLOCKAGE TO DEVELOPMENT INTO SOUTHERN DALLAS.
ALL OF OUR VISION AND GOALS INTO THAT HAS LOOKED AT HOW WE REBUILD DOWNTOWN, RE-ENVISION DOWNTOWN, AND THEN ALLOW THAT GROWTH TO HELP US TO REDEVELOP ALL SIDES OF DOWNTOWN, BUT IN PARTICULAR, THE DISINVESTMENT THAT'S OCCURRED IN THE SOUTH AND SOUTHERN SECTOR.
NEXT SLIDE. JUST WANTED TO REMIND A LITTLE BIT, REMIND THIS BODY THAT WE ARE A TOP 5 US CITY FOR MEETINGS AND CONVENTIONS.
BUT THE CONVENTION CENTER, THE REASON THAT WE ARE REDEVELOPING IT IS BECAUSE WE WERE LOSING GROUND, WE WERE LOSING TWO CITIES LIKE NASHVILLE, WHO HAD TAKEN THE INITIATIVE TO REALLY TAKE A STEP BACK AND TAKE A BUSINESS CASE LOOK AT THEIR DOWNTOWN AREAS AND WHAT THE CONVENTION CENTERS WERE TO THE CITY AS AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ENGINE, AND NOT JUST AS A STANDALONE SILO BUILDING.
BUILDING CONTINUITY, LOOKING AT TRANSPORTATION, LOOKING AT THE WALKABILITY OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA, ETC.
HOW WE WORKED WITH SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENTS AND EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND SITES THAT THE CITY HAS ALREADY INVESTED IN, INCLUDING DOWNTOWN PARKS, INCLUDING OUR INVESTMENTS IN WEST END, ETC, TRYING TO TIE THOSE TOGETHER AND KNIT THEM TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT MAKES DOWNTOWN VIBRANT LIKE SOME OF THE CITIES WITH WHICH WE COMPETE.
NEXT SLIDE. THIS MAP, YOU'VE ALL SEEN IT.
[00:30:02]
WE'VE SHOWED IT SEVERAL PRESENTATIONS.YOU CAN SEE HERE WHERE CITY HALL SITS AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE WITH AN OPPORTUNITY OF 15 ACRES THAT TIES IN TO WHERE WE'RE DEVELOPING.
WE HAVE THE GHOSTED BUILDINGS, THOSE ARE THE WHITE OUTLINED IN BLACK THAT OUR DEVELOPER OWN LAND, AND THEIR SHARED MASTER PLANS THAT THEY'VE PROVIDED TO US AS THEY EXIST RIGHT NOW AND THEIR CONTINUITY AND CONNECTIVITY TO THE CONVENTION CENTER PROJECT.
ALL OF THEM BRING WITH THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE THE PROPERTY TAX BASE IN DALLAS TO ALLOW US TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BRINGING IN MORE RESTAURANT, RETAIL, TO GETTING RID OF THE PARKING LOT SUCH THAT IT'S A WALKABLE DOWNTOWN AREA THAT CUTS DOWN THE PERCEPTION OF PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNS.
YOU'LL SEE WHERE THE CONVENTION CENTER ON THIS DEPICTION SITS TO THE WEST OF LAMAR, AS YOU ALL AGREED UPON.
HOW THESE DEVELOPMENTS AND HOW OUR DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, CITY OF DALLAS, AND OUR PARTNERS WITHIN THE CITY AND OUR STAKEHOLDERS HAVE ALL LOOKED TOGETHER TO SEE HOW WE INFILL AND BRING ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE CITY BY TYING TOGETHER WHAT WERE ONCE VACANT PROPERTIES.
NEXT SLIDE. THIS IS JUST A BRIEF SNAPSHOT OF WHERE WE ARE NOW.
THIS IS A POINT IN TIME AS OF TODAY.
THIS CHANGES AS WE CONTINUE TO SELL.
BUT WE HAVE BOOKED, AS YOU KNOW, 75 MAJOR CONVENTIONS INTO THE BUILDING THAT WE ARE DESIGNING FOR THE CONVENTION CENTER.
WE'RE WORKING ON THOSE AS WE BRING FORWARD AND LAY OUT THE ACTUAL DIAGRAMS OF THE BUILDING AND THE FINAL PLANS, AND CLOSE ON THOSE 112 NEW OPPORTUNITIES, WE BRING IN ABOUT $5.6 BILLION OF ECONOMIC IMPACT IN TOTAL.
NEXT SLIDE. HERE'S JUST A SNAPSHOT, TWO CITIES.
WE MENTIONED NASHVILLE, AND I MENTIONED DENVER IN A LOT OF PRESENTATIONS THAT WE DO THERE ARE TWO SMALLER CITIES WITH WHOM WE COMPETE WHO REALLY TOOK A TIME TO REDEVELOP, LOOK AT THEIR DOWNTOWN AREAS AND CONSIDER ALL THE POTENTIAL POSSIBILITIES THAT THEY COULD DO IN ORDER TO BRING ABOUT VIBRANCY IN THEIR CITIES.
THAT'S THEY'RE FREE TO LOOK AT AS A COMPARATIVE.
WE ARE HAPPY TO PROVIDE OTHERS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REFRESH ON A CONTINUED BASIS.
WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO YOU MR. GIBSON.
OBVIOUSLY, PART OF OUR NEXT STEPS IS TO RECEIVE FEEDBACK FROM OUR CITY COUNCIL ON THE CONSIDERATION OF OPTIONS.
WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HOPEFULLY PROVIDE ANY FOLLOW UP TO QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE BY MEMORANDUM.
WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED AS REQUESTED BY THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.
THERE'S ACTUALLY A FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING TOMORROW AT 1:00 P.M.
THAT POTENTIALLY HAS AN UPDATE ON DALLAS CITY HALL AS WELL. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU BOTH FOR THAT PRESENTATION.
WE HAD CONFERRED WITH MY CO-CHAIR HERE.
WE'RE GOING TO START HERE WITH CHAIR STEWART WORK THIS WAY AND THEN GO DOWN THIS WAY. TAKE IT AWAY.
>> NOW FOR JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
THE 2,200 EMPLOYEES THAT LITTLE WIGGLE SIGN THERE MEANS GIVE OR TAKE.
BY HOW MANY GIVE OR TAKE? ARE WE TALKING A FEW HUNDRED OR JUST APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY EMPLOYEES DO WE HAVE HERE IN THIS BUILDING, IS WHAT I'M ASKING?
>> THAT 2,200 NUMBER REPRESENTS THE TOTAL ASSIGNED STAFF MEMBERS TO THIS BUILDING.
IF WE WERE AT 100%, AND WE HAD NO TURNOVER AND WE KEPT 2,200 PEOPLE ALL DAY ALL THE TIME.
HOWEVER, WE JUST RECENTLY DID A SURVEY INTERNALLY.
IT WAS A PART OF OUR SPACE PLANNING EFFORT THAT GPFM HAD LAUNCHED US ON AND IT'S JUST SOME ONGOING DUE DILIGENCE THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING.
RECENTLY, DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS GAVE US A NUMBER OF ROUGHLY AROUND 400 OR SO EMPLOYEES THAT THEY THOUGHT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY TO BE IN THE CITY HALL, IF WE WERE TO RELOCATE, OR IF WE WERE TO POTENTIALLY RE-PURPOSE SPACE IN THIS BUILDING TO ACCOMMODATE POTENTIALLY EMPLOYEES OR OTHER AMENITIES WITHIN THE BUILDING THAT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR CITY HALL.
>> THANK YOU. THEN ONE OTHER QUESTION IS THIS 600,000 SQUARE FEET THAT WE'RE NOT USING FOR EMPLOYEE OFFICE SPACE.
CAN YOU JUST SKETCH FOR ME JUST GENERALLY, THAT'S A LOT OF THIS BUILDING THAT WE DON'T APPEAR TO BE OCCUPYING AS EMPLOYEES?
>> GOOD MORNING, BRIAN THOMPSON, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF FACILITIES AND REAL ESTATE MANAGEMENT.
[00:35:03]
THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF CITY HALL WITH THE GARAGE SPACES, INCLUDED IS 1 MILLION SQUARE FEET, 400,000 OF THAT IS OCCUPIABLE WITHIN CITY HALL ITSELF.>> SOME OF IT COULD BE THE PARKING GARAGE AND OTHER TYPES OF AREAS WHERE WE KEEP [OVERLAPPING].
>> THE CHAMBERS, THE GREAT HALL, DOWNSTAIRS ON THE FIRST FLOOR.
THERE'S SOME SPACES [OVERLAPPING] HERE IN THE LOBBY.
THERE'S JUST NOT NECESSARILY A SPACE WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY PUT A PERSON OR HAVE AN OFFICE.
>> RIGHT. THESE ARE JUST QUESTIONS I'M GETTING.
I THOUGHT IF WE COULD SKETCH IN SOME OF THE DETAILS.
>> IT JUST HELPS PEOPLE GET A GRASP OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF STORAGE AND OTHER MECHANICAL SPACE THAT'S IN THE BUILDING.
>> I'VE SEEN THERE WAS MECHANICAL STORAGE.
>> YES. I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY JUST TO SHARE THE FRAMEWORK OR THE WAY I AM LOOKING AT THIS DECISION.
THE DECISION WE ARE FACING IS CHALLENGING, AND IT INVOLVES VERY DIFFICULT CHOICES ABOUT HOW WE WILL SPEND TAXPAYER DOLLARS GOING FORWARD.
I FIND MYSELF ASKING, CAN WE ADDRESS DECADES OF DEFERRED MAINTENANCE WHILE ALSO FACING MOUNTING PRESSURES ON OUR BUDGET, AND AN INCONSISTENT SUPPORT FOR BOND DOLLARS FOR MAINTENANCE.
WE MUST CONSIDER THE INCREASING PENSION OBLIGATION, THE CAP ON INCREASES TO OUR REVENUE, AND PROP YOU WITH ITS INCREASED COMMITMENTS TO PUBLIC SAFETY.
WHAT IS THE BEST PATH FORWARD FROM A FISCALLY SUSTAINABLE PERSPECTIVE? SECOND POINT IS WE MUST ALSO CONSIDER THE NEEDS OF OUR RESIDENTS AND THINK ABOUT SERVICE DELIVERY.
OUR RESIDENTS ARE TELLING US THAT STREET REPAIRS, PUBLIC SAFETY, PARKS, AND LIBRARIES ARE IMPORTANT, IF NOT ESSENTIAL TO THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE.
I BELIEVE WE HAVE PRIORITIZED THESE NEEDS IN THE 2024 BOND, AS WELL AS IN OUR BUDGETS, AND I DON'T SEE ANY OF US ADVOCATING TO MOVE AWAY FROM SERVICE DELIVERY.
THE THIRD POINT IS WE NEED TO CONSIDER ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES.
CAN WE HELP REVITALIZE DOWNTOWN BY OPENING UP 15 ACRES FOR REDEVELOPMENT NEAR THE CONVENTION CENTER THAT WOULD GENERATE NEW TAX REVENUE, AS WELL AS LEASE SPACE IN EXISTING OFFICE BUILDING? THIS DECISION MUST BALANCE ALL THREE OF THESE, THE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY, THE SERVICE DELIVERY, AND THEN THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AS WELL AS LOOKING AT WHAT IS OUR VISION FOR THE FUTURE? THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW I'M APPROACHING THIS, HOW I'M LOOKING AT THIS DECISION.
IT IS A HUGE DECISION AND WILL HAVE IMPACTS FOR OBVIOUSLY GENERATIONS. THANK YOU, CHAIR.
>> THANK YOU. I'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT PEOPLE SAYING, HOW COME THIS WASN'T TENDED TO THROUGH THE YEARS, AND IT'S NOT THAT IT WASN'T THERE.
THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS THERE.
IT'S JUST THAT IT WAS OUTGUNNED.
CITY HALL WAS OUTGUNNED BY OTHER PUBLIC-FACING FACILITIES.
I SERVED ON THE CRITICAL FACILITIES 2017 TASK FORCE.
I KNOW CHAIR WEST, SERVED ON THAT BOND COMMITTEE.
I SPENT THIS WEEKEND GOING THROUGH OLD BOND NOTES FROM SUBCOMMITTEES, AND IT'S SO EVIDENT EVEN FROM THE NOTES FROM TOWN HALL MEETINGS, THIS IS WHERE THE PEOPLE SPOKE.
BUT THIS WASN'T WHERE THEIR FOCUS WAS.
IT'S ON REC CENTERS AND LIBRARIES.
I REMEMBER IN 2017, ESPECIALLY IN CRITICAL FACILITIES, THERE WERE A LOT OF POLICE AND FIRE STATIONS THAT WERE IN NEED OF ATTENTION WHERE OUR FIRST RESPONDERS SPENT SO MUCH TIME.
IT'S EASY TO SEE WHY CITY HALL MIGHT HAVE FADED TO THE BACKGROUND IN THE FACE OF SOME OF THESE OTHER MORE PUBLIC-FACING NEEDS.
WE DIDN'T CALL OUT, THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.
MAYBE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING TO DO.
IT MAY BE MORE IMPORTANT TO CALL OUT THAT THIS IS WHERE YOUR 911 OPERATORS, YOUR 311 OPERATORS, YOUR IT, ALL OF THE WAYS THAT THE CITY INTERACTS WITH YOU AND SERVES YOU, THAT A LOT OF IT IS BASED RIGHT HERE.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S APPARENT TO EVERYONE.
I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS HERE THAT HAVE BEEN GRANDFATHERED IN THAT EVEN THOUGH WE CAN MAYBE NOT ATTEND TO SOME THINGS, SHOULD WE BE OPERATING THAT WAY BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY EMPLOYEES HERE? THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.
IT'S BEEN BROUGHT BEFORE BOND COMMITTEES.
IT'S BEEN IGNORED BY BOND COMMITTEES.
IN A WAY, IT'S BEEN IGNORED BY PEOPLE AS WELL BECAUSE THEY SEE OTHER THINGS THAT THEY WOULD RATHER HAVE THAN TAKING CARE OF THIS SPACE.
BUT TO GET DOWN TO THE NUMBERS, REALLY, AS I LOOKED AT THIS MORE OVER THE WEEKEND, I THINK WE'VE GOT THREE ISSUES.
WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE COST TO REPAIR AND MAINTAIN CITY HALL AND THE TIMING OF THIS.
[00:40:01]
THIS IS ON E THING I HAD ASKED ABOUT; WAS THE GATING.COMING OUT OF THE LAST MEETING, WE WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT HOW ACCURATE WERE THESE COSTS.
YOU HAVE GOTTEN AT THAT WITH SOME OF THESE ARE ESTIMATES FROM 2024 AND 2025, BUT I'LL COME BACK TO THAT.
SECOND THING IS UNDERSTANDING THE VALUE OF THIS CITY PROPERTY AS PART OF DOWNTOWN DEVELOP.
THIS ISN'T ON THE OUTSKIRTS ANYMORE.
WE'VE GOT AN AMAZING CONVENTION CENTER PROJECT.
WE'VE GOT OTHER DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING.
THIS HAS BECOME A HOT HAND, AND WHETHER THAT'S SALE OR GROUND LEASE, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT I'LL BE INTERESTED IN ECONOMIC IMPACT ANALYSIS ON WHAT THIS POTENTIALLY COULD GENERATE.
YOU HAVE A SLIDE COVERING OFF ON THE FACT THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT HOT TAX.
WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT OTHER TAX REVENUE THAT THIS COULD GENERATE, BUT WE'VE GOT AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ARM, I THINK THAT COULD START WRAPPING THEIR HEADS AROUND THAT.
THIRD, THERE COULD BE SOME OTHER FACTORS THAT TIE INTO WHETHER THERE IS A SALE.
THAT IS PARKLAND, THAT SURROUNDS THIS.
THERE'S THE DALLAS AT THE CROSSROADS BOND, 1967 ABOUT ACQUIRING LAND AND ALSO CONSTRUCTING THE COMBINED MUNICIPAL SERVICES BUILDING.
THIS GOES WAY BACK, BUT ARE THERE SOME TIES FROM BACK THEN THAT WOULD AFFECT A SALE TODAY? WE NEED TO HAVE A THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THAT AS WE CONSIDER THIS.
WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE CATEGORY, MR. GIBSON, OF THINGS THAT WE DON'T HAVE CURRENT ESTIMATES ON THAT WE MIGHT HAVE GOT AN ESTIMATE A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO, HOW MUCH EXPLORATION HAS THERE BEEN INTO BETTER TECHNOLOGY, OR A BETTER METHOD OF SOLVING SOME OF THESE ISSUES? BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE ON SOME OF THEM, IT'S JUST UPDATING THE INFLATION VERSUS, HEY, IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO GET AT THIS? THE HABITRAIL FLOODING SYSTEM THAT WE SEEM TO HAVE TO DIVERT WATER.
HAVE WE ANALYZED THAT, OR MR. THOMPSON, MAYBE IT'S BETTER TO ASK THAT.
>> I'M GOING TO START AND I'LL LET HIM DO THE WARM UP ACT IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S LEFT OVER.
BUT TO ANSWER YOUR BASIC QUESTION, NO, WE HAVE NOT.
IT TAKES TIME AND MONEY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SOME OF THE ASSESSMENTS THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING.
WE DON'T HAVE DOLLARS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
WE FOUGHT REALLY HARD JUST TO KEEP THE MAINTENANCE DOLLARS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP THE BUILDING RUNNING PATCHWORK.
BUT IF YOU'RE ASKING US, HAVE WE EXPLORED WHAT NEW TECHNOLOGY COULD BE IMPLEMENTED IN THE BUILDING THAT MIGHT RELIEVE US OF SOME OF THESE CONCERNS, THE ANSWER THAT IS NO, MA'AM.
>> THIS IS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE COST IDENTIFIED WITH THAT.
IF YOU TALK TO SOME INDUSTRY EXPERTS TO JUST SAY, IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO DO THIS THAN THE WAY WE DID IT 25 YEARS AGO THAT WE'RE JUST UPDATING COSTS ON? I MEAN, IN 25 YEARS, IS THERE A DIFFERENT WAY THAT WE MIGHT ADDRESS FLOODING IN A BUILDING LIKE THIS?
>> I THINK IT'S SHORT. I THINK EVERYONE'S AWARE THEY'RE GOING TO BE EMBARKING ON A FULL CITY WIDE FACILITIES CONDITION ASSESSMENT.
I THINK AT THAT TIME, THAT'S OUR OPPORTUNITY.
I THINK AS WE TALK ABOUT DEFERRED MAINTENANCE, I THINK WE'VE ALSO HAD A DEFERRED USE OF TECHNOLOGY AND SLOW MOMENTUM.
I KNOW FOR OUR DEPARTMENT SPECIFICALLY WHEN JOHN TOOK OVER IN 2022, AND I CAME ON BOARD SHORTLY THEREAFTER, JUST THE ABILITY TO COME THROUGH INFORMATION TO FIND OUT WHAT HAD TAKEN PLACE FOR THE LAST DECADE HAD BEEN CHALLENGING.
USING WHAT WE HAD AS A CURRENT TECHNOLOGICAL SOURCE WAS SOMETHING WE REALLY ALMOST HAD TO START FROM THE GROUND UP.
TO LOOK AT DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AND TECHNOLOGY TO DRIVE DECISIONS, I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.
I DON'T THINK WE HAVE QUITE MADE IT THERE YET.
BUT I BELIEVE YOU MENTIONED OR SUGGESTED THE USE OF AI IN THE UPCOMING FCA, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING I HAD IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SPECIFICATIONS CONSIDERED AS WELL.
HOW DO WE USE IT? NOT ONLY FROM AN EVALUATION OF THE PRIOR FCA, WHICH I WON'T GO INTO MY OPINION ON THE PRIOR FCA, BUT USING AI TO LOOK AT OUR BUILDINGS AND PROVIDE SOLUTIONS FOR HOW WE BETTER MAINTAIN.
>> MS. WILLIS, I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.
I WAS GOING TO SAY WHEN YOU SAID THE TERM TECHNOLOGY, IT MADE ME THINK OF SOME OF THE CREATIVITY. [OVERLAPPING]
>> INNOVATION AND CREATIVITY IS A BETTER WAY TO GET AT IT.
>> PART OF THE WATER INFILTRATION SOLUTION AT ONE TIME, BECAUSE WE GOT AN ESTIMATE WAY FURTHER THAN DOLLARS THAT WE HAD FUNDED WOULD COVER, AN INTERNAL SYSTEM WAS CREATED.
AN INTERNAL GUTTER SYSTEM WAS CREATED TO MOVE WATER AROUND AND THAT SINCE FAILED.
THERE'S BEEN SOME VERY CREATIVE AND THOUGHTFUL WAYS STAFF HAS TRIED TO WORK [OVERLAPPING] BUT THERE'S BEEN MORE PATCHWORK.
>> ARE WE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT WAYS VERSUS JUST UPDATING THE OLD COST, AND IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO GET AT IT? WE CAN PARK THAT FOR NOW, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I'D WANT TO CONSIDER.
[00:45:01]
CHAIR STEWART TOUCHED ON IT, BUT IN THE STAY COST, IS THERE SPACE PLANNING IN THAT? BECAUSE THIS PLACE NEEDS SPACE PLANNING LIKE NOTHING ELSE.WE WOULDN'T WANT TO COME BACK AND JUST DO THIS ALL OVER AGAIN.
WE WOULD NEED TO USE THIS SPACE BETTER.
WAS THAT INCORPORATED INTO THIS?
>> NO, MA'AM. THERE IS NO SPECIALIZED SPACE DESIGN RELATIVE TO THE [OVERLAPPING] COST.
>> I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO. I DON'T SEE HOW WE COULD START INVESTING, IF WE'RE GOING TO SHUT IT DOWN FOR A YEAR OR TWO TO REDO A BUNCH OF THINGS AND TO NOT THINK ABOUT HOW IT'S ORGANIZED.
THEN THE LAST THING THAT I WILL SAY JUST TO MY POINT TOO ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE VALUE OF CITY PROPERTY, ARE WE PREPARED TODAY TO HEAR ABOUT THE VALUE OF 1500 MARILLA AND TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO DISCUSS THAT? DO WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO CAN TELL US ABOUT THAT?
I THINK OUR FOLKS FROM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CAN HELP US.
I THINK THAT IF COUNCIL WANTS TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, THAT'S THE MOST APPROPRIATE PLACE TO DO SO.
>> YEAH. JUST TO ADDRESS MY COLLEAGUE, I WOULD SAY, LET'S MAKE A RUNNING LIST OF ALL THE EXECUTIVE SESSION ITEMS AND THEN LET'S DO IT AT THE END.
>> JUST TO GET THROUGH ALL OUR QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU. COUNCILWOMAN BLAIR.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU, CHAIR.
I WANT TO LOOK AT THE BOND HISTORY OF DEFERRED MAINTENANCE OFF OF THE BOND.
CAN YOU TELL US HOW MUCH MONEY WAS ORIGINALLY ALLOCATED IN, WAS IT 212, 217, 224 BOND PACKAGES, AND HOW MUCH WAS REFERRED FROM THE BOND COMMITTEE TO CITY COUNCIL AND HOW MUCH CITY COUNCIL ACTUALLY APPROVED? DO WE HAVE THOSE NUMBERS?
>> I THINK THE BEST NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE HISTORICALLY ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION MOVING THROUGH THE ACTUAL PROCESS IS 2024.
THAT'S THE MOST RECENT SCENARIO THAT WE HAVE RELATIVE TO THEN ACTUALLY GOING TO COUNCIL.
I HAVE TO ASK OUR CFO IF HE CAN HELP WITH 2017 BECAUSE I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST YEAR THAT WE WERE USING THE BOND TASK FORCE.
>> THEN DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH IT WAS ALLOCATED IN 2017 AND 2024 FOR MAINTENANCE OF 1500 MARILLA?
>> IF YOU'RE ASKING FROM [OVERLAPPING].
>> MS. BLAIR, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING YOUR QUESTION.
IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH WAS IN THE 2017 BOND PROGRAM FOR MAJOR MAINTENANCE OR HOW MUCH FOR OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE COST?
>> HOW MUCH MONEY WAS ALLOCATED IN 2017 AND 2024 FOR MAJOR MAINTENANCE OF 1500 MARILLA?
>> THE 2017 BOND HAD $17 MILLION.
7 MILLION. I'M SORRY, 7 MILLION.
NOT 17. THEN THE 2024 BOND HAD NO ALLOCATED FUNDS FOR CITY HALL.
>> SORRY, IN 2024, HOW MUCH WAS IT?
>> IN 2017, WE HAD 7 MILLION ALLOCATED FOR MAINTENANCE FOR 1500 MARILLA?
>> IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, I SAT ON THE 2024 BOND PACKAGE, AND WE DID MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL TO BRING, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH DOLLARS WAS RECOMMENDED FROM THE 2024 BOND COMMITTEE TO CITY COUNCIL?
>> YES. COUNCILMEMBER, 28 MILLION WAS BROUGHT TO COUNCIL FOR CITY HALL MAJOR MAINTENANCE NEEDS.
>> WE DO BOND PACKAGES EVERY FIVE YEARS.
>> THAT'S APPROXIMATE, YES, MA'AM.
>> WE'RE NOT DUE FOR ANOTHER LOOK-AT-BOND PACKAGING OR BOND ALLOCATIONS INTO 2029, IS THAT NOT CORRECT?
>> THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION I WOULD WANT OUR CFO TO ANSWER, AND I SEE HIM ON THE WAY NOW.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON, JACK ARLAND, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER. THAT IS CORRECT.
THE 2024 BOND PROGRAM IS BEING IMPLEMENTED OVER FIVE YEARS.
WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE THE NEXT ROUND OF ELECTIONS IN 2029, START IMPLEMENTING IN 2030.
NOW, THAT IS WHEN WE WOULD HAVE OUR REGULAR CADENCE, IF YOU WILL, OF BOND PROGRAMS. THERE COULD BE A BOND PROGRAM CALLED AT ANY POINT, BUT IT WOULD COMPETE FOR THE DOLLARS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE ALLOCATED.
[00:50:04]
FOR EXAMPLE, WE ONLY HAVE LIMITED CAPACITY.RIGHT NOW WE ARE IMPLEMENTING $250 MILLION A YEAR FROM THE 2024 BOND PROGRAM.
IF THE CITY COUNCIL WERE TO MAKE A DECISION, WE GO TO THE VOTERS AND THEY APPROVE A BOND PROGRAM, AND YOU PRIORITIZE IT ABOVE, WE COULD DELAY SOME THINGS THAT ARE IN 2024, SO THAT YOU COULD START DOING A CITY HALL PROPOSITION NOW.
WE ONLY HAVE LIMITED ABILITY TO BORROW BOND FUNDS, AND THEY'RE ALL SCHEDULED RIGHT NOW.
THEY'RE ALL SCHEDULED UNTIL 2029, AND THEN IN 2030, WE WOULD HAVE BRAND NEW CAPACITY.
BUT YOU CAN SWITCH OUT YOUR PRIORITY IN YOUR CAPACITY FOR A NEW PROJECT, BUT YOU WOULD DELAY AN OLD PROJECT.
>> YOU SAID SOMETHING VERY TELLING.
YOU'D HAVE TO SWITCH OUT AN OLD PROJECT FOR A NEW PROJECT IF WE WANTED TO HAVE A OFF-SEASON BOND ALLOCATION, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> IF THAT WERE YOUR PRIORITY, YES, WE HAVE THE CAPACITY RIGHT NOW TO DO EVERYTHING IN THE 2024 BOND PROGRAM THROUGH 2029.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WE DON'T HAVE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO DELAY SOMETHING EXISTING AND ACCELERATE IF YOU HAVE A NEW BIGGER PRIORITY, WHICH YOU COULD DO, WHETHER IT WAS CITY HALL OR SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT IT WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR ABILITY TO DELIVER 2024 IN THE FIVE YEARS.
IT'S ALL ABOUT SEQUENCING AND WHAT YOUR PRIORITY IS AND WHEN YOU DO IT.
IF WE MOVE FORWARD THE WAY WE ARE, THE NEXT OPPORTUNITY WOULD BE IN 2030 AFTER WE FINISH EVERYTHING WE'VE ALREADY COMMITTED TO DO THROUGH THE '24 BOND PROGRAM.
>> THIS QUESTION I'M ASKING FOR OUR RESIDENTS WHO MAYBE JUST DON'T KNOW.
ISN'T IT NOT TRUE THAT A BOND IS LIKE A LOAN PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE THAT DOES WORK, AND THEN WE MUST REPAY?
>> YES, MA'AM. WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE FINANCIAL CAPACITY, IT IS BECAUSE IT IS A LOAN.
WE ARE BORROWING MONEY TO MAKE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS IN THE CITY, AND WE HAVE TO PAY THAT BACK OVER 20 YEARS.
WE ONLY HAVE SO MUCH CAPACITY TO MAKE THAT MORTGAGE PAYMENT, IF YOU WILL, DEBT PAYMENT EACH YEAR.
WE COULDN'T DO EVERYTHING WE CURRENTLY HAVE PLANNED PLUS ADD MORE.
WE WOULD HAVE TO SEQUENCE IT OVER TIME OR RE-PRIORITIZE.
>> I THINK FOR WHAT I WANT TO ACCOMPLISH HERE IS THE FACT THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BOND PROGRAMS, WE'RE STRICTLY TALKING ABOUT LOANS.
IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT FROM 2017 BOND PACKAGE IN 2024 BOND PROGRAM, THE COMMITTEES MADE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND IN 2024, THE RECOMMENDATION FOR MURILLO DID NOT EXIST WHEN IT GOT TO COUNCIL.
WE'RE IN THIS POSITION IF THIS IS OUR HISTORY.
BUT I'M SITTING IN A HOT SEAT AS A NEW COUNCIL MEMBER, AS TO HOW DO WE CHANGE THE TRAJECTORY OF WHERE WE HAVE GONE SO THAT WE CAN BE A VIABLE COUNCIL AND DO THE RIGHT THINGS? THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER. CHAIRMAN GRACIE.
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I ALWAYS WANT TO OPEN UP WITH A JOKE, BECAUSE I'M SO COLD, MAN, I COULDN'T HARDLY HEAR YOU ALL, MAN. IT'S COLD IN HERE.
[LAUGHTER] I HOPE YOU ALL CAUGHT THAT.
THAT'S HOW COLD IT IS IN HERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BY DESIGN OR WHAT, BUT IT'S COLD.
I'M GOING TO SAY THAT, WHICH BRINGS ME TO I WANT TO START WITH REALLY TWO FOCUSES.
ON ONE SIDE, THERE'S THE BUILDING, ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S THE OPPORTUNITY.
I WANT TO START WITH THE BUILDING, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
I'M GOING TO GET TO SOME QUESTIONS IN A LITTLE BIT.
BUT THE FIRST SIDE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE BUILDING, IT'S HOW IT SERVES THE PUBLIC AND HOW IT SERVES THE EMPLOYEES.
FROM HOW IT SERVES THE PUBLIC, I'M GOING TO ASK A VERY BASIC QUESTION.
THIS IS NOT A TRAP. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL.
IT'S JUST REALLY TO PROVE A POINT.
HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO PUT GUARD RAILS RIGHT HERE SO PEOPLE WON'T FALL DOWN THE STAIRS, JUST TO WALK? HAVE WE LOOKED INTO THAT?
THERE ARE SOME ADA COMPLIANCE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, AND SOME OF THE NUMBERS WE GOT BACK WERE COST PROHIBITIVE FOR US AT THE TIME.
>> AGAIN, I'M NOT PUTTING YOU ON A SPOT.
I'M REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A POINT.
DOES ANY OF IT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS BUILDING AND HOW IT'S JUST
[00:55:02]
DESIGNED IN GENERAL THAT PROHIBITS US FROM DOING SOME OF THESE THINGS, SOMETIMES OR MAKES IT MORE EXPENSIVE?>> WHAT YOU'RE BRINGING UP IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE RUN INTO, WHENEVER WE MAKE REPAIRS TO THIS BUILDING OR ANY OTHER CITY FACILITY, FOR THAT MATTER.
BRIAN, CHIME IN IF I LEAVE SOMETHING OFF, BUT WE HAVE TO BRING IT UP TO CODE.
WHAT THE CODE WAS, I DON'T KNOW.
40 YEARS AGO, 50 YEARS AGO, WHEN THIS BUILDING WAS DESIGNED AND CONSTRUCTED, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MATCH UP TODAY.
WE BRING IT UP TO CODE, INCLUDING ADA COMPLIANCE, AND WE FREQUENTLY FOUND THAT TO ESCALATE OUR COST.
>> THEN, AS IT RELATES TO I KNOW WE'VE GONE THROUGH, EVEN WHEN I WAS AN EMPLOYEE, WE'VE LOOKED THROUGH WAYS TO TRY TO REPURPOSE AND TRY TO MAKE SOME OF THE SPACE OPEN FOR RETAIL, PERHAPS, AND WE'VE MISSED OUT ON SOME OF THAT, TOO, AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THIS BUILDING, PRETTY MUCH.
AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO LEAD, JUST TRYING TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE THINGS I'M REMEMBERING OFF TOP OF MY HEAD IN TERMS OF SOME EFFORTS WE WERE MADE IN TERMS OF HOW TO REPURPOSE SOME OF THE SPACE IN THIS BUILDING.
>> I'LL LET BRIAN CHIME IN IF I LEAVE SOMETHING OFF, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE GREATEST LIMITATIONS IS THE ELECTRICAL CAPACITY OF THE BUILDING.
EVERY TIME WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING NEW OR DIFFERENT, THAT'S USUALLY THE FIRST CHALLENGE WE'RE MET WITH.
>> I'LL STOP THERE. THEN I'LL JUST TALK ABOUT IT FROM AN EMPLOYEE'S PERSPECTIVE.
AGAIN, HAVING BEEN IN THIS BUILDING SINCE 2005, MY COLLEAGUE, MISS BLACKMAN HAS BEEN IN THERE, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LONGER.
I REALLY AM COLD. GEEZ. BUT FROM AN EMPLOYEE PERSPECTIVE, AND HOW THIS SPACE HAS SERVED OUR EMPLOYEES.
YOU SAID THERE'S ABOUT 2,200 OR SO EMPLOYEES, IF WE WERE AT FULL CAPACITY, THAT THIS BUILDING COULD SERVE. IS THAT TRUE?
>> YOU SHOWED, I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THOSE PICTURES AND EVERYTHING, SOME OF THE CONDITIONS AND SOME OF THE SPACES.
AGAIN, I STARTED WITH A JOKE AND JUST HOW COLD IT IS.
BUT SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO COME HERE EVERY DAY AND WORK IN THESE PLACES.
AGAIN, I'M MAKING THIS POINT, CHAIR, ABOUT WHILE THERE IS A FACTOR OF WHAT DOES IT COST TO ACTUALLY BRING THIS BUILDING UP TO STANDARDS.
THERE'S A PHYSICAL DOLLAR AMOUNT TO THAT, TOO, BUT THERE'S ALSO THIS OPPORTUNITY COST THAT WE'VE LOST IN TERMS OF HOW WELL WE CAN SERVE, KEEP OUR EMPLOYEES COMFORTABLE.
ONE, AND THEN HOW WELL WE CAN SERVE THE PUBLIC.
WE'RE LIMITED IN A LOT OF THINGS.
I'M JUST BRINGING THAT UP CHAIR AS A POINT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT FACTORS.
WE KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY EXPENSIVE ORDEAL, WHETHER IT'S ON THE LOW END.
OR THE HIGH END, IT'S EXPENSIVE.
EVEN IF IT'S ON THE LOW END, IT'S STILL GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME FOR US TO GET EVEN TO THAT POINT TO GET CAUGHT UP TO SPEED ON THAT.
ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, YOU MENTIONED YOU HAD IT BROKEN DOWN INTO THREE THINGS, RECENT QUOTES, ESTIMATES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP TO TODAY'S STANDARDS, AND THEN A SERIES OF ESTIMATES.
YOU CAN START ON THE LOW END, OR THE HIGH END, REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
BUT WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THAT OF THE RECENT QUOTES FIT INTO THAT? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE IS IN TERMS OF YOUR DOLLAR AMOUNTS, WHETHER IT'S THE 150 OR THE 300 MILLION OR WHATEVER IT WAS? DO YOU KNOW ROUGHLY OF THOSE RECENT QUOTES THAT YOU HAVE? WHAT PERCENTAGE?
>> SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I COULD DO A ROUGH CALCULATION. JUST GIVE ME.
I'M JUST I WOULD IMAGINE IT'S A FAIRLY HIGH PERCENTAGE IS WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS, IN TERMS OF BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARGUED ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS BEING OUTDATED AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR CAUGHT UP IN THE HOW DATED THE NUMBERS ARE VERSUS THE NEED OF THE REPAIRS, AND WE KNOW THAT THEIR NEEDS EXIST, AND WE KNOW THAT THOSE COSTS, WHETHER IT'S A OLD QUOTE OR A NEW QUOTE, WE KNOW THAT THOSE COSTS ARE REALLY GOING TO BE ON IT, WHICH IS WHY YOU PUT THAT RANGE IN, TO BE FAIR IN TERMS OF WHAT IT COULD COST.
>> I'M GOING TO STOP THERE, AND I'LL JUST SAY IS IT'S COLD. I'LL STOP THERE.
I'LL JUST SAY I GREW UP IN A HOUSEHOLD.
MY MOM TOLD ME A WEEK BEFORE WE WERE MOVING THAT WE WERE MOVING TO KANSAS CITY.
THEN, WHEN I GRADUATED COLLEGE, SHE TOLD ME I HAD 30 DAYS TO FIND A JOB AND A PLACE TO STAY BECAUSE SHE WAS MOVING OUT TO CALIFORNIA AFTER I GRADUATED COLLEGE.
I GREW UP IN A HOUSEHOLD WHERE WE'VE LEARNED TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, AND WE'VE HAD TO MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS, WHETHER WE WERE PREPARED FOR THEM OR NOT.
IN THIS CASE, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE KNEW ABOUT.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT.
AGAIN, AS WE LOOK AND TRY TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS, NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY THAT COULD OR COULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, BUT WE'VE HAD THESE OPPORTUNITIES AND CONSISTENTLY,
[01:00:02]
WHETHER IT WAS THIS BODY OR BODIES YEARS BEFORE US, HAVE CONSISTENTLY SAID THAT THE PEOPLE AND THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE ARE WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT.I'D LIKE US TO CONTINUE FOLLOWING THAT SAME PLAN AS WE MOVE FORWARD AND THINK ABOUT THIS.
WE UNDERSTAND THESE COSTS, AND I'M ASSUMING WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH AND DO THAT.
I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S INSENSITIVE, EITHER.
HOWEVER, MANY OF US HAVE BEEN HERE, AND WE KNOW WHAT IT IS, AND WE KNOW WHAT THE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE ON THESE BUILDINGS ARE, BUT I DO ALSO WANT TO BE SENSITIVE TO SOME OF THOSE FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN IN HERE.
I THINK OVER TIME, I THINK ABOUT THIS, IF WE WERE TO TRANSITION, I WOULD FEEL SOME WAY, MAYBE A BIT EMOTIONAL ABOUT IT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THINKING ABOUT SOME OF THE EMPLOYEES THAT HAVE BEEN HERE OR HAVE HAD TO RETIRE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, I'LL BE CURIOUS TO GET THEIR PERSPECTIVES ON WHAT THEY WOULD THINK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO STAY HERE, WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO TRANSITION OUT INTO SOMETHING NEW SO THAT THEY COULD ACTUALLY DO THEIR JOBS, POTENTIALLY DO SOMETHING EVEN BETTER AND BE MORE FUNCTIONAL FOR THE ENTIRE PUBLIC AND THE EMPLOYEE.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I'LL STOP THERE.
>> THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. CHAIRMAN JOHNSON.
COUNCILWOMAN BLAIR TOUCHED ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO SAY.
SHE ASKED HOW MUCH MONEY WAS IN THE 2024 BOND PROGRAM THAT WAS ALLOCATED, AND THE ANSWER WAS ZERO.
I JUST GOT HERE, SO I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY WAS THAT THE CASE? WHY WAS $0 ALLOCATED? I THINK SHE SAID THAT THERE WAS CITY COUNCIL, THEY WERE, I THINK, RECOMMENDED TO INVEST SOME DOLLARS.
WHY WAS THAT THE CASE, WHY $0 WAS ALLOCATED?
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT THOUGHTFUL QUESTION.
IN THE 2012 BOND PROGRAM, THAT WAS A COUNCIL PRIORITY FOCUS.
LITERALLY, THE MAIN THEME THAT THEY WENT OUT TO THE VOTERS WAS STORM DRAINAGE, BECAUSE THEY FLOOD CONTROL, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND STREETS, FOR THE MOST PART.
THOSE WERE THE THREE MAIN PROPOSITIONS THAT WENT TO THE VOTERS, AND NO OTHER PROPOSITION TYPES, PUBLIC SAFETY FACILITIES, NOTHING ELSE WAS INCLUDED IN THE 2012.
HOWEVER, IN 2024, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
THERE WAS AN ASK AND THERE WAS AN AMOUNT THAT MADE IT, SO FAR IN THE PROCESS, BUT THE FINAL CONSIDERATION THAT WAS DONE HERE BY THIS BODY WAS DECIDED THAT THERE WAS GREATER PRIORITIES ELSEWHERE, AND THEN THEY REALLOCATED THAT $28 MILLION ELSEWHERE.
AT THAT POINT, CITY FACILITIES WAS LEFT WITH NO FUNDED ITEM.
>> THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING THAT. ALSO, I WAS INFORMED RECENTLY, AS OF LAST WEEK, THERE WAS ANOTHER FLOODING SITUATION IN THE BUILDING.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT SITUATION.
IS THAT PART OF THE BUILDING OPEN, OR IS IT CLOSED?
>> I THINK FOR THE QUESTION, COUNCIL MEMBER, THAT IF IT'S THE MOST RECENT ISSUE, WE HAD A RESTROOM BACKUP ON 4CN AND THE LADIES' RESTROOM.
IT WAS CONTAINED WITHIN THAT RESTROOM, AND THE ISSUE WAS RESOLVED BY OUR PLUMBING CONTRACTOR AND CLEANED UP THAT SAME DAY.
OTHER THAN THAT, FOR RECENT, THE LAST ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN MAY, SO OF LAST YEAR.
>> OKAY. ALSO, WHY DO WE NOT HAVE FOOD SERVICES IN THIS BUILDING FOR OUR STAFF? I KNOW SOME COME AND GO, BUT WHY DO WE NOT HAVE THAT ONGOING?
>> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. AS FAR AS ANY FOOD OPTIONS, AS JOHNSON MENTIONED EARLIER, AT ONE TIME, WE HAD FOOD SERVICE ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR IN THE CAFETERIA.
AS CODE REQUIREMENTS CHANGED, ESPECIALLY AS RELATED TO FOOD SERVICE, THE ONE ISSUE THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY IS A GREASE CAPTURE OPPORTUNITY OR A REQUIREMENT WITHIN THE SEVENTH FLOOR.
AGAIN, THE COST BENEFIT OF INSTALLING THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO INCORPORATE GREASE RECOVERY WITHIN A FOOD SERVICE OPERATION, AT THIS TIME, JUST OUTWEIGHED THE BENEFIT.
>> THE REASON WHY I'M ASKING THESE QUESTIONS IS $0 HAS BEEN INVESTED.
YOU HAVE FLOODING ISSUES THAT'S GOING ON IN THIS BUILDING.
YOU HAVE WHERE STAFF CANNOT PROPERLY HAVE A STABLE PLACE TO GO, A CAFETERIA TO WORK, AND WORK LONG HOURS.
I'VE SEEN A LOT OF US WORK LONG HOURS HERE.
[01:05:01]
I'M SORRY. WHERE I COME FROM.YOU HEARD ME TALK ABOUT IT BRIEFLY.
AS A SCHOOL BOARD TRUSTEE, A LOT OF MY SCHOOLS WERE IN DEPLORABLE CONDITIONS, AND I'M LOOKING AT THESE PICTURES HERE.
REMIND ME OF WHAT SOUTH OCLIFF LOOKED LIKE.
REMIND ME WHAT ROOSEVELT LOOKED LIKE.
REMIND ME WHAT PINGSTON HIGH SCHOOL LOOKED LIKE.
NO, I SAID, LOOK LIKE BECAUSE WE CHANGED THAT UNDER MY LEADERSHIP.
WE'VE INVESTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, OVER 400 MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THE DISTRICT THAT I SERVED IN BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR KIDS WAS GOING INTO A BUILDING OF EDUCATORS THAT WAS NOT DEPLORABLE.
THESE PICTURES REMIND ME THAT I'M LOOKING AT ON SLIDE 18.
I'M LOOKING AT THESE PICTURES HERE ON SLIDE 19, SLIDE 20.
IT REMINDS ME OF A BUILDING THAT WE'VE ADVOCATED FOR IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND WE WANTED TO GET AWAY FROM IT.
I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO SEE SOMETHING HAPPEN WHERE WE BRING THE RIGHT PEOPLE, OR MORE PEOPLE, TO THE TABLE, REAL ESTATE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, MAYBE THE PREHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMUNITY, AND DISCUSS THIS MATTER, HOW WE CAN GROW THIS CITY, AND TALK MORE ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.
AGAIN, I KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO HAVE A DEPLORE THE BUILDING.
INVESTING DOLLARS THAT'S NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING, BUT MORE PUT MORE LIPSTICK ON A PIG IS SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT SUPPORTING.
I CANNOT SUPPORT THAT WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE EVIDENCE, AND I JUST CAME FROM INSTITUTION WHERE THE WHOLE ENTIRE COMMUNITY FOUGHT AGAINST THINGS LIKE THIS.
EVEN IN DOING SO, THERE WAS RAIN GOING ON IN THE BUILDING AND PEOPLE WAS MANEUVERING AROUND IT AS IF THAT WAS NORMAL.
BECAUSE NO ONE WANTED TO DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE WERE SO ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING, BUT NOT ATTACHED TO GROWTH.
NOT ATTACHED TO REALLY FIXING A PROBLEM.
WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN TO EVERYONE TO MAKE A WHOLESOME DECISION AND BE PRUDENT WITH OUR FINANCES AND DO WHAT RIGHT BY OUR TAXPAYERS.
JUST SAY WE HAVE TO PUT MORE MONEY IN RENOVATING AND GETTING THINGS TOGETHER.
HAVE WE EVEN LOOKED AT IT? IF WE START TOUCHING THESE WALLS, WHAT ASBESTOS IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE? HAVE WE EVEN GOT THAT FAR YET?
>> BRIAN, DO WE HAVE ASBESTOS IN THE BUILDING?
>> I CAN'T ANSWER THAT RIGHT NOW, I CAN GET THAT INFORMATION.
WE WOULD SUSPECT IN SOME AREAS WITH SHEET ROCK AND SOME MASTIC FLOORING MATERIAL, THERE COULD BE, BUT ABSENT REVIEWING REPORT RIGHT NOW, I DON'T HAVE THAT.
>> CAN YOU SPEAK JUST A LITTLE MORE DIRECTLY INTO MIC JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S CAUGHT HERE? I THINK WE ALL HEAR YOU, BUT SOMETIMES THE AUDIO DOESN'T PICK IT UP.
>> CHAIR WEST, I'D LIKE TO RESPOND.
SORRY, I TOOK A MINUTE TO DO A HAND CALCULATION. IT'S RIGHT AT 29%.
WHEN YOU ASKED THE QUESTION EARLIER ABOUT THE FIRMED UP, MORE RECENT QUOTES, IT'S RIGHT AT 29-30% OF THE TOTAL COST ASSOCIATED THE ESTIMATE IS.
>> DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ON ASBESTOS? IN YOUR DISCOVERY, DID YOU GUYS HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT IF THIS IS ASBESTOS IN THE BUILDING ONCE WE START RENOVATING AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THAT, BECAUSE I'M PRETTY SURE THESE ARE OLDER BUILDINGS. I'M PRETTY SURE WE HAVE.
LET ME SAY THIS TO YOU. BRIAN DOESN'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF HIS HEAD.
WE CAN DO SOME RESEARCH FOR YOU, BUT I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE UNKNOWNS THAT WE SPEAK TO.
HE DOESN'T TEAR BEHIND EVERY WALL TO SEE IF THERE'S ASBESTOS EVERY DAY.
IF WE HAVE TO DO ANY RENOVATING OR ANY FORM OF REPAIRS TO THE BUILDING, IF IT'S THERE, AND ANY OTHER CHALLENGES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS IT.
THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY YOU GOT TO LEAVE SOME ROOM IN THERE WHEN YOU'RE MAKING YOUR ESTIMATES, BECAUSE THERE'S JUST A LARGE NUMBER OF UNKNOWNS ABOUT THIS BUILDING, AND ASBESTOS WOULD BE ONE.
>> THANK YOU. I'VE HAD A LOT OF CHAIR WEST.
I HAVE A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS.
PEOPLE HAVE CONTACTED ME, AND I SPOKE WITH SEVERAL PEOPLE.
AGAIN, MY EXPERIENCE IN SEEING THESE PICTURES ARE A GOOD REMINDER OF WHAT A BUILDING LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT'S BEEN NEGLECTED.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE TO THIS BUILDING.
THAT'S WHY I SAID I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THE PREHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMUNITY COME TOGETHER AND HAVE DISCUSSIONS.
I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO INCREASE OUR TAX BASE.
[01:10:02]
WE HAVE TO CUT COSTS, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO ALSO INVEST IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, ESPECIALLY SOUTH OF 30.I BELIEVE THIS BUILD, AND I WOULD CONSIDER THIS A SOUTH OF 30.
WE MUST GROW SOUTH, AND CITY HALL IS A PART OF THAT.
WHEN I LOOK RIGHT DOWN THE STREET AT THE CEDARS, I BELIEVE EVEN GROWTH HERE WILL IGNITE THE GROWTH RIGHT THERE IN THE CEDARS, NOT IN MY DISTRICT, BUT IT WILL MAKE ITS WAY DOWN THE DISTRICT 4, AND YOU WILL SEE REAL GROWTH IN WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING, SOUTH OF 30.
I'M LOOKING AT MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE PRUDENT WITH OUR DOLLARS, WITH OUR TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE MAKING A RIGHT DECISION AND MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST INVESTING DOLLARS THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE, AND A FEW YEARS LATER, WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO FIX THIS UP, PATCH THIS UP AGAIN, AND PATCH THAT.
MORE PATCHWORK DOES NOT DO ANYTHING BUT CREATE MORE PROBLEMS, AND IT'S A WASTE OF DOLLARS.
FROM THE GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY CHAIR, I'M LOOKING TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO MORE, BE MORE EFFICIENT, AND MAKE PRUDENT DECISIONS WITH OUR FINANCES.
LOOKING AT THIS, THIS IS A CONCERN FOR ME WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S BEHIND THE WALL.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THESE BUILDINGS ARE OLD.
I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THERE'S NOT ASBESTOS IN, WHICH IS GOING TO COST MORE MONEY.
YOU NEVER KNOW UNTIL YOU REALLY TURN INTO THE WALLS.
AT THIS POINT, I'LL GET BACK OVER TO CHAIR WEST. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. NEXT, WE'RE GOING TO GO TO COUNCIL MEMBER ROTH, AND THEN WE'LL TAKE RIDLEY BLACKMON, AND THEN MORENO IS GOING TO WRAP IT UP. TAKE IT AWAY.
>> THANK YOU. JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
I'M LOOKING AT THIS IN A LITTLE DIFFERENT WAY.
IF, FOR SOME REASON, THIS BUILDING WAS BLOWN UP BY A TORNADO OR BY A FIRE, AND WE HAD TO RENOVATE THE WHOLE BUILDING TO COME BACK INTO IT, ASSUMING IT WAS OKAY.
TO ME, THE REAL DEFINITIVE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE STRUCTURE OF THIS BUILDING JUSTIFIES RENOVATING THE INSIDE OF IT.
IF THE STRUCTURE IS NOT SOLID, IF THE BUILDING REALLY IS SINKING INTO THE GROUND, IF THE BUILDING IS REALLY FALLING DOWN, THEN THAT CREATES A WHOLE DIFFERENT ANALYSIS IN MY OPINION ON WHETHER YOU SPEND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO RENOVATE IT.
IF THE STRUCTURE OF THE BUILDING IS SOLID, THEN THE DECISION IS A DIFFERENT DECISION.
IT'S HOW DO WE MAKE THIS BUILDING EFFICIENT? HOW DO WE MAKE IT SUITABLE FOR THE USES THAT WE NEED TO HAVE IN IT? I THINK THE DECISION TREE IS ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT ON WHETHER OR NOT THE PHYSICAL STRUCTURE OF THIS BUILDING IS SOLID.
I DON'T SEE ANYWHERE THAT WE'VE MADE THAT DETERMINATION YET.
I THINK WE'VE GOT A GREAT LOCATION, WE'VE GOT GOOD REAL ESTATE, WE'VE GOT A POTENTIALLY GOOD STRUCTURE.
THE FACT THAT IT'S AN ICONIC AND AN ARCHITECTURAL GYM IS ALSO A PLUS, BUT THE FACT IS THIS IS A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT'S VALUABLE TO THE CITY.
IF WE CAN USE IT, WE SHOULD USE IT PROPERLY.
TO COUNCILMAN JOHNSON'S POINT, IT'S NOT BUILT OUT, IT'S NOT DESIGNED RIGHT FOR THE WAY WE NEED IT, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO RENOVATE IT COMPLETELY ANYWAY, WE CAN BRING IT UP TO SPEED.
WE CAN PROVIDE THE AMENITIES THAT WE NEED, WE CAN PROVIDE THE ELECTRICITY AND THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE NEED, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE REDOING THE WHOLE INSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
THE OTHER THING, TOO, IS, ANYBODY WHO BUYS THIS BUILDING OR WHO NEEDS THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE.
WHAT'S THE VALUE OF A BUILDING UNLESS THE STRUCTURE IS VALUABLE, BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY'S GOING TO TEAR IT DOWN, THAT MAKES OUR DECISION VERY EASY.
THEN WE CAN LOOK AT ALL DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES, BUT IF THE BUILDING IS SOLID AND THE LOCATION IS GOOD, WE ONLY NEED A PLACE FOR 400 EMPLOYEES INSTEAD OF 2,200 EMPLOYEES.
WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CAPACITY HERE, AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY HERE TO CORRECT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE FOR PARKING, FOR DESIGN OF THE OFFICES.
I THINK THIS IS TO COUNCILMAN JOHNSON'S POINT, WE NEED TO GET SOME FOLKS IN THE ROOM WHO CAN HELP DO SOME SPACE PLANNING TO DO SOME EVALUATION OF WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE, BUT NUMBER 1, TO FIGURE OUT IF THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO STAND OR NOT.
THAT'S NUMBER 1, BEFORE YOU START SPENDING $100 MILLION TO DO ANYTHING.
[01:15:01]
$100 MILLION OR $200 MILLION MAY BE AN APPROPRIATE CONTRIBUTION TO OUR CITY TO DO THIS.WE MAY NEED TO BORROW THE MONEY.
THE DEBT SERVICE ON THAT OBLIGATION IS GOING TO BE VERY SIMILAR, ACCORDING TO YOUR NUMBERS, AS THE COST TO LEASE AND TO BUILD OR TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT, IT MAY BE A WASH, OR IT MAY BE A SIMILAR SITUATION.
WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT IF THIS BUILDING CAN BE REPURPOSED, AND THAT'S MY SUGGESTION.
I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT WE GET A SOLID BID ON SOME CONSULTING FOR WHAT STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING COST IS GOING TO BE, NOT JUST TO GUESS THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A MILLION DOLLARS.
I DON'T KNOW WHY IT SHOULD BE THAT MUCH.
NUMBER 2, WE NEED TO GET THAT ANALYSIS DONE IMMEDIATELY.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD TAKE THREE TO SIX MONTHS TO GET DONE.
WE'VE GOT RELATIONSHIPS WITH CONSULTANTS THAT ARE DOING STUFF FOR THE CITY, THE COUNTY, FOR OUR GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES THAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO COME IN HERE AND GIVE US A SOLID PRICE, GIVE US A TIMELINE WE CAN GET THIS INFORMATION SO WE CAN MAKE A DECISION AS A GROUP.
I'M SORRY TO BE SO VERBOSE, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO GET TO THE HEART OF THIS.
>> COUNCILMAN ROTH, THANK YOU FOR THAT.
I THINK I HEARD YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.
I WILL TELL YOU, FIRST OFF, AND WE MENTIONED THIS A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE, OUR WHOLE PRESUMPTION IS THAT THIS BUILDING COULD BE REPAIRED.
I THINK THE CONTENTION OF OUR PRESENTATION IS AT WHAT COST AND WHAT OFFSET.
THAT'S THE DECISION THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE INFORMATION FOR THE CITY COUNCIL TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE DID LIKE YOU MENTIONED, AND WE HAD SOME PEOPLE COME IN, AND BEFORE WE'D RECOMMEND, HEY, BY THE WAY, HOW MUCH MONEY CAN WE ADD, WE'VE ASKED SOME EXPERTS TO COME IN AND GIVE US SOME OPINIONS, NOT JUST ABOUT HEY, IS THIS NUMBER A GOOD NUMBER OR NOT, BUT IS THE BUILDING GOING TO FALL DOWN? THE ANSWER THAT WE'VE GOTTEN, UNLESS BRIAN HASN'T TOLD ME SOMETHING, IS THE BUILDING IS NOT ABOUT TO COLLAPSE ON ITSELF, WE'RE NOT IN IMMINENT DANGER.
THE QUESTION HERE, THOUGH, AND THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE BROUGHT UP THAT WE'VE BEEN CHALLENGED BY DOING THIS WORK OURSELVES, AS MUCH AS YOU GUYS ARE CHALLENGED ABOUT MAKING A COUNCIL DECISION AS STAFF.
WE'RE SITTING HERE AND WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE POSTURED IN A WAY TO GIVE YOU THE MOST ACCURATE DEPICTION OF WHAT THE COST ACTUALLY MIGHT BE TO REPAIR THE BUILDING.
THERE'S SOME CONCERNS ON OUR PART ABOUT THE BUILDING'S AGE, ALL THE PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES THAT WE'VE HAD IN THIS BUILDING TO INCLUDE CONCERNS THAT, I'M SORRY, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF CHANGES IN THIS BUILDING.
WE KNOW THAT IT'S JUST GOING TO HAPPEN.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT NOW, WHETHER IT'S ME SITTING IN THIS CHAIR OR SOME SUCCESSOR COMING DOWN THE ROAD, YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOME CHANGE ORDERS BECAUSE THERE'S SOME UNKNOWNS.
SOMEONE MENTIONED THAT'S ASBESTOS.
WE COULD GIVE YOU A LIMITLESS NUMBER OF THINGS THAT COULD POP UP THAT PEOPLE WOULD PRESUME WERE UNEXPECTED, AND THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO COST.
WE JUST WANT TO BE VERY GENTLE ABOUT ROLLING A NUMBER OUT, ESPECIALLY IF WE GO TO THE VOTERS IN A BOND PROPOSITION AND SAY, WE ONLY NEED $100 MILLION AND THEN COME BACK TO FIND OUT THAT WE NEEDED 200 MILLION OR SOME OTHER NUMBER IN EXCESS OF THAT.
THAT'S THE BALANCE OF WHERE ALL OF US ARE AT RIGHT NOW.
I THINK WE'RE PROVIDING YOU WITH VALUABLE INFORMATION SO THAT HELP YOU MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.
LOOK, JUST ON THE BACK OF THE ENVELOPE, THERE'S REAL ESTATE PEOPLE THAT ARE SITTING IN HERE TO REMODEL A BUILDING AT $100 OR $200 A SQUARE FOOT IS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE DOING REMODELING OF AN INSIDE OF A BUILDING, REPLACING AIR CONDITIONING, PUTTING IN NEW ELEVATORS, PUTTING IN NEW CARPET, IN PAINTING.
I'M BEING FACETIOUS, BUT I'M ALSO BEING SERIOUS.
THE DELTA THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO THINK ABOUT, BUT I'M TELLING YOU THAT NUMBER IS A CRITICAL NUMBER, BUT IT'S A REASONABLE NUMBER IN VIEW OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE.
NOW, MAYBE WHEN YOU'RE A GOVERNMENT, EVERYTHING COSTS DOUBLE, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S THE CASE.
BUT THE FACT IS THAT THESE ARE NUMBERS THAT IN THE INDUSTRY.
THIS ISN'T A SECRET, IT'S NOT UNUSUAL, AND EVERY BUILDING IS GOING TO HAVE THE SAME COST.
WE HAVE TO DO MORE RESEARCH ON THE COST.
WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A BUILDING HERE, WHAT IT COSTS, AND WHAT WE NEED TO DESIGN THIS BUILDING TO USE IT FOR FUNCTIONALITY OF OUR PURPOSES.
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I CONCUR 100% WITH COUNCILMAN ROTH'S COMMENTS.
WHAT DID THE PRO BONO ENGINEERS THAT YOU IDENTIFIED ACTUALLY DO?
[01:20:05]
>> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION, COUNCILMAN.
THEY CAME INTO THE BUILDING, THEY WALKED THROUGH THE BUILDING WITH JOHNSON, AND DID A VISUAL ASSESSMENT OF THE CONDITION OF THE BUILDING.
>> DID THEY PRODUCE ANY KIND OF WRITTEN REPORT?
>> CAN YOU SHARE THAT WITH THE COMMITTEES?
>> I BELIEVE THAT SHOULDN'T BE ANY REASON WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT. YES, SIR.
>> NO, SIR. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS A SEALED REPORT.
>> THEY WERE NOT WILLING TO PUT THEIR LIABILITY BEHIND THE CONCLUSIONS IN THEIR REPORT BY SEALING?
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS THE ASSESSMENT.
I THINK IT WAS A PRO BONO ENGAGEMENT, BECAUSE WE WEREN'T PAYING FOR IT.
I DON'T KNOW TO THE EXTENT OF THEIR LICENSE OR WHATEVER THEY THOUGHT THE NEED WOULD BE FOR THE CITY, BECAUSE WE WERE ASKING THEM SPECIFICALLY TO HELP US DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE IN THE RIGHT ROUGH ORDER OF MAGNITUDE, AND THEY BOTH SAID, YES.
>> THIS REPORT DID NOT INCLUDE ANY COMPREHENSIVE CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF THE BUILDING, DID IT?
>> IT DIDN'T INCLUDE A STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS OF THE BUILDING, DID IT?
>> I THINK THE FIRST PRIORITY FACING US IS TO OBTAIN JUST THOSE TWO ITEMS FROM A REGISTERED, REPUTABLE TEXAS ENGINEER WHO IS WILLING TO PUT HIS SEAL ON SUCH A REPORT.
AS COUNCILMAN ROTH WISELY OBSERVED, WE SHOULDN'T TAKE ANY STEPS BEFORE WE KNOW WHAT THE CONDITION OF THIS BUILDING IS.
SEVERAL ALLEGATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE THAT IT'S SINKING INTO THE GROUND, BUT I NOTE SIGNIFICANTLY THAT THIS PRESENTATION SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THAT.
IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE ACTUAL STRUCTURAL CONDITION OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN AN ASSESSMENT.
NOW I HAVE AN UNRELIABLE AUTHORITY THAT WE CAN OBTAIN SUCH AN ASSESSMENT WITHIN THREE MONTHS, THREE TO FOUR MONTHS FOR SUBSTANTIALLY LESS THAN A MILLION DOLLARS.
I NOTE FROM THE PRESENTATION THAT STAFF HAS SAID THAT THEY WILL UNDERTAKE TO DO A CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF THE BUILDING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
>> I THINK WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING IS IN THIS CURRENT YEAR'S BUDGET, WE WERE ALLOCATED DOLLARS FOR FACILITIES CONDITION ASSESSMENT ACROSS OUR ENTIRE 500-BUILDING INVENTORY.
WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THOUGH, IS IF, DEPENDING ON HOW THINGS WERE ORGANIZED AND SET UP, WE COULD ASK THEM TO ACCELERATE CITY HALL AS BEING ONE OF THE FIRST PROJECTS, BUT WE HAVE YET TO ACTUALLY FINISH THE PROCUREMENT FOR THAT, AND THEN AWARD HERE AT COUNCIL, AND THEN FOR THEM TO START THEIR WORK.
IT'S STILL SEVERAL MONTHS AWAY.
>> BUT THAT'S YOUR PLAN TO UNDERTAKE THAT.
>> THANK YOU. I BELIEVE THAT THIS PRESENTATION OVERSTATES THE COSTS FOR REPAIR OF CITY HALL AND UNDERSTATES THE COSTS TO VACATE IT AND TO MOVE.
NOW THERE ARE FIVE REASONS WHY I BELIEVE THIS LIKELY OVERSTATES THE COST OF STAYING HERE.
FIRST, WE HAVE NO STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS OR EVEN A CONDITION ASSESSMENT BY SOMEONE QUALIFIED TO MAKE SUCH CONCLUSIONS.
IT'S CRITICAL TO ASSESS WHAT THE ACTUAL SCOPE OF REPAIRS SHOULD BE TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.
AS I'VE ALREADY OBSERVED, THERE HAVE BEEN NO STRUCTURAL FAILURES THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED THAT IMPERIL THIS BUILDING.
ONLY SOME COSMETIC SPALLING, WHICH IN SOME CASES HAS ALREADY BEEN REPAIRED.
THREE, MANY OF THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN FIXED IN THE 2017 BOND PROGRAM HAVE NOT BEEN.
STAFF TOLD US THAT THERE WERE SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS ALLOCATED BY THIS COUNCIL AND THE RESIDENTS OF DALLAS TO REPAIR CITY HALL.
SPECIFICALLY, AND I'VE CIRCULATED A PAGE FROM OUR BOND WEBSITE, SUCH FUNDS WERE TO REPLACE THE EXISTING ROOF PARAPET FLASHING, SKYLIGHTS, AND ROOF DRAINS.
IMPROVEMENTS WILL BE MADE TO THE GARAGE WATER INFILTRATION SYSTEM, AS WELL AS RENOVATIONS TO THE PUBLIC-FACING RESTROOMS FOR ADA COMPLIANCE.
REPLACEMENT OF THE REMAINING FEDERAL PACIFIC ELECTRICAL.
WHAT DID THE SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS GET US FOR CITY HALL? I WAS ASTONISHED AFTER I RESEARCHED IT.
DO YOU KNOW WHY? THE MONEY WAS NEVER SPENT.
IT'S STILL SITTING IN UNENCUMBERED 2017 BOND FUNDS, ALONG WITH $70 MILLION OF OTHER FUNDS THAT ARE UNENCUMBERED.
NOW, I THINK IT'S IRONY OF IRONIES THAT THE CONDITIONS, ALL OF WHICH THE ONES THAT I JUST READ, ARE INCLUDED IN THIS PRESENTATION AS NEEDING WORK,
[01:25:04]
WERE PROVIDED FOR IN THE 2017 BOND PROPOSAL, AND YET STAFF IS COMING TO US TODAY AND INDICTING THE BUILDING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SPEND THAT MONEY ON CITY HALL.THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT CONDITIONS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED, BUT WE'RE NOT.
FOURTH, I NOTE THAT IN THE PRESENTATION, YOU INDICT THE HEATING SYSTEM AS INEFFICIENT.
WE JUST COMPLETELY REBUILT THE HEATING SYSTEM IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
I FIND IT IMPLAUSIBLE THAT WE'RE NOW GOING TO HAVE TO REPLACE A HEATING SYSTEM THAT'S LESS THAN A YEAR OLD.
FIFTH, YOU INDICT THE INABILITY OF THE CITY TO ACCOMMODATE EXPANDED EV CHARGING.
WHEN A PRIVATE OFFICE BUILDING THAT WE MIGHT MOVE INTO WOULD NOT HAVE EITHER A MOTOR POOL OR THE ABILITY TO ADD EV CHARGING TO SUIT OUR REQUIREMENTS.
>> NOW, I AGREE MAJOR CAPITAL INVESTMENT IN THE BUILDING IS NEEDED TO MAKE UP FOR THE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE OVER MANY YEARS.
WE SAVED MONEY AS A CITY BY NOT INVESTING IN THIS BUILDING IN THE PAST, IT'S NOW COME DUE AND IT'S TIME TO SPEND THAT MONEY THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SPENT YEARS AGO.
BUT I DON'T SEE THIS AS A ZERO SUM BECAUSE WE SAVED MONEY IN THE PAST FOR NOT DOING THIS MAINTENANCE.
WE SPENT IT ON OTHER ITEMS. THE COIN IS TURNED.
IT'S TIME TO NOW SPEND MONEY ON CITY HALL.
THAT IS TO OBTAIN A COMPREHENSIVE CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF THE CITY HALL AND PLAN AND FUND THE REPAIRS.
WE HAVE $76 MILLION OF UNENCUMBERED FUNDS IN THE 2017 BOND PROGRAM.
THEY COULD EASILY THROUGH THE ACTION OF THIS BODY BE RE-ALLOCATED TO ADDRESS MOST OF THE PRIORITY CONCERNS AT CITY HALL.
WITH REGARD TO THE OPTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED FOR MOVING, I BELIEVE THOSE ALSO UNDERSTATE THAT COST.
THE COST THAT THEY'VE TOLD US FOR CLASS A OFFICE IS $25 MILLION A YEAR.
WHERE IS THAT MONEY GOING TO COME FROM IN THE BUDGET? IN ADDITION, THAT'S ONLY FOR 405,000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH I SUSPECT WAS BASED UPON AN ALLOCATION OF 02,200 INDIVIDUALS AND A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE PER PERSON, BUT IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR OUR PUBLIC SPACES.
I SUSPECT THAT IT DOES NOT INCLUDE A CITY HALL CHAMBER.
IT DOES NOT INCLUDE A LOBBY WHERE WE HAVE MANY PUBLIC FUNCTIONS.
WE ACCOMMODATE PARKING ON SITE FOR RESIDENTS WHO COME TO OUR MEETINGS.
IN A PRIVATE OFFICE BUILDING, THERE WOULD BE PARKING AT BEST FOR CITY EMPLOYEES, BUT NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.
WE ALSO, AS I'VE NOTED, WOULDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE A FLEET OF CITY VEHICLES IN CHARGING STATIONS.
WHY THE RUSH? WHY CAN'T WE AFFORD 3-4 MONTHS TO OBTAIN A FULL CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF CITY HALL? LACK OF DATA, LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, LEADS TO POOR DECISION MAKING.
WE OWE IT TO OUR RESIDENTS TO OBTAIN AT LEAST THAT DATA BEFORE WE MAKE ANY IRREVOCABLE DECISIONS AND WASTE CITY STAFF TIME IN TALKING TO NUMEROUS LANDLORDS ABOUT MOVING INTO THEIR BUILDINGS.
I AM STRONGLY IN SUPPORT OF OPTION 2.
I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY SENSIBLE ALTERNATIVE AT THIS POINT.
>> THANK YOU. COUNCIL OF ENVIRONMENT.
>> I DID JUST A COUPLE OF POINTS.
>> AND THE BUDGET QUESTION TOO BECAUSE I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT, WHERE THE [OVERLAPPING].
>> ON THE USE OF THE 2017 BONDS.
THIS BODY, I WANT TO SAY THREE, FOUR WEEKS AGO, PULLED AN ITEM OFF THAT WAS USING 2017 BONDS TO ACTUALLY DO SOME RENOVATIONS HERE IN THIS BUILDING, AND IT WAS RELATED TO THE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE WOULD BE HAVING AN OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT CITY HALL DEFERRED MAINTENANCE.
THAT ITEMS IN LIMBO THAT WAS PLACED ON HOLD BY THIS BODY BASED ON THIS DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE HAVING NOW.
THERE WAS A 2017 PROJECT THAT WAS MOVING.
THEN ALSO, THE ANALYSIS THAT WE RECEIVED, IT DID INCLUDE PARKING NEEDS.
JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT. THANK YOU.
>> THANKS FOR LETTING ME BARGE IN ONTO YOUR MEETING.
ON YOUR ASSESSMENT OF ALL THE COSTS,
[01:30:04]
IS THAT TO ACTUALLY FIX THE SYSTEM OR IS IT ACTUALLY TO PATCH IT? ON ALL YOUR COSTS THAT YOU'VE GIVEN A HBC UPGRADES, THE ROOF REPLACEMENT, THOSE ARE COMPLETE REPLACEMENTS.I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A COMPLETE.
>> YES. THESE WOULD BE FULL SYSTEM UPGRADES.
>> OKAY. ALL OF THESE ARE FULL SYSTEM UPGRADES.
>> ON THE CURRENT ESTIMATES, YES.
>> SECONDLY, I GUESS ON YOUR PAGE 39, ALL OF THE REPAIRS ARE GOING TO BE DONE THROUGH A BOND PROGRAM.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT ANY THROUGH GENERAL FUND.
>> I WOULD LIKE OUR CFO TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
I THINK THE PREMISE THAT WE USED.
I HATE TO PUNT TO HIM LIKE THAT, BUT I THINK THE PREMISE WE USE WAS USUALLY SUBSTANTIAL DOLLARS LIKE THIS, TRADITIONALLY, HAVEN'T COME FROM OUR GENERAL FUND BUDGET, BUT THAT WOULD BE A DECISION AND GUIDANCE OUR CFO WOULD HAVE TO GIVE US.
>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT IF IT WAS ALL ONE THING, BUT YOUR ROOF REPLACEMENT IS 3 OR 4 MILLION.
WHY WOULD YOU GO OUT AND GET A LOAN FOR 3 OR 4 MILLION A PAY AND LOOK AT THE INTEREST COSTS THAT WE'RE PAYING OVER THE LIFE OF THE BOND.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO DO ALL OF IT IN BOND AND ALL OF IT ON GENERAL FUND.
>> YES, MA'AM. ABSOLUTELY, JACK ARLAND, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
AS MR. GIBSON MENTIONED THROUGH THE BRIEFING, DECISIONS RELATED TO HOW WE WOULD PAY FOR THINGS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE WORKED OUT.
BUT FOR A 10 YEAR COMPARISON PURPOSES, THE COST OF LEASING A FACILITY VERSUS STAYING AND RENOVATING, WE JUST ASSUMED FOR THIS PURPOSE, THIS EXERCISE THAT IT WOULD ALL BE DEBT.
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON.
>> DECISION THAT COUNCIL CHOOSES.
>> IF WE SECURED LOAN FOR THE WHOLE THING, THIS WOULD BE HIGH WATER POINT.
>> THAT IS WHAT WE'VE LAID OUT IN THIS ANALYSIS.
>> THEN YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT THIS IS A 10 YEAR.
YOU'RE COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES.
>> WE TALKED THAT WE HAVE 2,200 EMPLOYEES ASSIGNED HERE.
HOW MANY DID YOU SAY ACTUALLY COME ON A DAILY BASIS?
>> I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER OF THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY HERE.
WE HAVE SOME VARYING SCHEDULES, SO I DON'T HAVE THAT.
>> BUT I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ECONOMIC GENERATOR, 02,200 FULL TIME CITY EMPLOYEES THAT COME TO THIS BUILDING IS A BIG ECONOMIC GENERATOR.
I WAS HERE IN 2007 WHEN WE ALL HAD TO COME AND WE WERE NOT PARCELED OUT.
BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE HAVE A HUGE HUB IF PEOPLE DID COME.
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE ECONOMIC ON 45.
I GUESS IT'S ROSA, BOTH OF YOU.
WHEN ALL WERE LOOKING AT THE CONVENTION CENTER, DID THIS SITE EVER COME UP, OR DID IT COME UP JUST RECENTLY? BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE CONVENTION CENTER, I THINK, FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS NOW.
>> YES, THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.
WE DID NOT DISCUSS THE CITY HALL SITE IN ANY OF OUR STUDIES.
IF IT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION OF CITY COUNCIL TO GO FORWARD AND ADD THAT TO OUR STUDIES, WE WOULD ASK ONE OF OUR CONSULTANTS TO ADD IT, BUT IT WAS NOT DISCUSSED AS PART OF OUR INITIAL.
>> IT ISN'T IN PART OF YOUR STUDY.
BUT YOU'VE GIVEN US A SLIDE THAT TALKS ABOUT INCREASING IN TAX REVENUE.
I'M ASSUMING THAT'S PROPERTY TAX.
>> YES. THAT WOULD BE PROPERTY TAX.
THEN DEPENDENT ON IF THIS BODY DECIDED, LET'S GO AHEAD AND REDEVELOP THE SITE OR ASKED US EVEN TO WORK WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR ANY OF OUR CONSULTANTS, SUCH AS HRNA, OR HUNDEN PARTNERS WHO DID OUR STUDIES PREVIOUSLY TO GO BACK AND ADD THIS CITY HALL SITE TO A STUDY.
THEY WOULD GIVE A SCENARIO BASIS THAT WOULD SAY, WE COULD FIT THIS MUCH RETAIL, THIS MUCH RESTAURANT, HOTEL, FOR EXAMPLE.
>> HOW LONG DOES THAT STUDY TAKE?
>> IT WOULD DEPEND. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND ASK AND YOU CAN [OVERLAPPING].
>> BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SIMULTANEOUSLY AS YOU'RE DOING A STRUCTURAL STUDY.
>> BECAUSE IF IT'S PROPERTY TAX, THAT MEANS THAT WE DON'T OWN THE BUILDING ANYMORE EITHER OR THE SITE.
>> CORRECT. IF IT'S A PROPERTY TAX, IT'S NOT OWNED, BUT THEY WOULD ALSO DO WHAT HE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.
SOME OF THOSE UNKNOWNS YOU COULD GUESSTIMATE AT WHAT HOTEL OCCUPANCY TAX WOULD BE.
WHAT RETAIL, ALCOHOL AND BEVERAGE, ALL OF THOSE TAXES WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU SOME DATA FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
>> YOU'RE SAYING THIS COULD BE A HOTEL SITE, TOO?
>> IT COULD BE ANY WHATEVER WE WOULD DECIDE.
TYPICALLY, IF WE GO BACK AND WE LOOK AT THE STUDIES AND I DID BRING THEM THAT WE DID FOR THE CONVENTION CENTER,
[01:35:03]
THEY GAVE US FOUR OR FIVE SCENARIOS.IT WAS DIFFERENT ORIENTATIONS AND BUILDINGS, DIFFERENT NUMBER OF RETAIL, AND THEY BASED IT ON MARKET STUDIES OF WHAT WAS NEEDED IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE GROWTH IN DOWNTOWN OVER X NUMBER OF YEARS.
IT'S A STUDY THAT COULD TAKE 2-3 MONTHS.
>> YOU HAVEN'T DONE A STUDY, BUT THEN YOU SAY ATTRACT ADDITIONAL NEW INVESTMENT AND SPUR ADDITIONAL TAX BASED GROWTH IN SURROUNDING AREA.
EXPLAIN HOW YOU GOT THAT STATEMENT?
>> IF WE WERE TO EXERCISE OPTION 3, WHICH IS WHAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE ASKED MR. GIBSON AND HIS TEAM TO GO FORWARD AND DO, THESE WOULD BE THE NEXT STEPS.
THIS WOULD BE THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT.
OBVIOUSLY, IF IT WAS A BLANK SLATE, IT'S GOING TO GENERATE SOME LEVEL OF INVESTMENT, SOME LEVEL OF CONTINUITY WITH THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GOING ON IN AND AROUND IT DOWNTOWN.
WE WOULD USE THAT OR ASK OUR CONSULTANTS TO USE THAT TO DEVELOP BETTER DATA THAT WE'D BRING BACK TO YOU AND SAY, WE'VE LOOKED AT WHAT THOSE DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES COULD BE, AND HERE IS THE DATA THAT SAYS WHAT THAT REVENUE COULD GENERATE.
>> WELL, A BETTER DATA POINT WOULD ALSO BE TO HAVE A STRUCTURAL STUDY AS WELL.
I THINK IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET DATA, YOU SHOULD BE DATA ACROSS THE BOARD.
FINALLY, IT SAYS RIGHT HERE, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY HAS EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF DOWNTOWN.
ARE YOU FREE TO ELABORATE WHAT THOSE CONCERNS ARE?
>> SURE. I'VE GOT ACM BENTLEY COMING UP TO TALK THROUGH SOME OF THAT.
BUT IF YOU WERE AT THE DDI MEETING, THE DOWNTOWN DALLAS, WE WENT THROUGH SOME OF THOSE, BUT I'LL HAVE HER AND KEVIN FROM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WALK THROUGH WHAT THEY'VE HEARD.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON, ROBIN BENTLEY WITH THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE.
I THINK ROSA HAS COVERED A LOT OF IT, BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM PEOPLE IS THAT THEY ARE NERVOUS ABOUT THE GROWTH AND FUTURE OF DOWNTOWN.
WE ARE A MAJOR LAND OWNER IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF DOWNTOWN, AND SO WE HAVE A STAKE IN WHERE THE CITY GOES, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE PROXIMITY OF THIS SITE TO THE CONVENTION CENTER.
IF IT WAS THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL TO MOVE AND REDEVELOP THE SITE, KEVIN AND I WOULD WORK WITH APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONALS TO DEVELOP A PLAN TO DEVELOP OR REDEVELOP THIS BUILDING, THIS SITE IN COORDINATION WITH THE CONVENTION CENTER MASTER PLAN.
BUT NONE OF THAT WORK HAS BEEN DONE YET.
AT THIS POINT, THE ONLY DECISION IS WHAT DONZEL'S PRESENTING.
HOW DOES THE COUNCIL WANT TO PROCEED AS FAR AS OCCUPYING THIS BUILDING OR NOT OCCUPYING THIS BUILDING? ANY OTHER FUTURE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WORK, THAT WOULD BE KEVIN AND I GOING FORWARD.
ROSA'S RIGHT, AVORM TAXES IS ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE, BUT ANY REDEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY WOULD ALSO INCLUDE SALES TAX, LIKELY HOT TAX, ALCOHOL AND BEVERAGE TAX.
RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY A LOW DENSITY GOVERNMENT BUILDING PAYING NO TAX.
WHEN YOU'RE COMPARING THE TWO APPLES, ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO BE A MORE REVENUE GENERATING PROSPECT THAN THE OTHER.
BUT WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY ANALYSIS ON WHAT WE THINK WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE REDEVELOPMENT.
THAT'S A FAR OFF FUTURE DISCUSSION AND NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE SPENT TIME ON QUITE YET.
>> ON THE LAST ONE, IT SAYS DOWNTOWN VACANCIES CREATE IDEAL MARKET.
WE WOULD VACATE THIS AND MOVE INTO THE INNER CORE, AND THEN THIS WOULD BE DEVELOPED WITH WHAT YOU ARE BALANCING OUT.
>> DONZEL HAD ASKED US TO LOOK INTO DOWNTOWN VACANCY.
ESSENTIALLY, THE 400,000 SQUARE FEET THAT WE OCCUPY HERE, WHAT ARE SOME OPTIONS IN DOWNTOWN THAT HAVE THAT VACANCY? I THINK THERE WERE NINE OR 10 BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN THAT POTENTIALLY WOULD HAVE 400 OR MORE THOUSAND VACANT SQUARE FEET.
THEN LOTS OF OTHER OPTIONS THAT HAVE SOME SMALLER NUMBER OF VACANCIES.
I THINK GIVEN THE DOWNTOWN VACANCY, IT IS A UNIQUE TIME TO BE LOOKING AT OPTIONS FOR CITY HALL TO MOVE.
BUT AS DONZEL SAID, WE HAVEN'T TALKED TO A LANDLORD.
THESE ARE JUST RESEARCH NUMBERS AT THIS POINT.
>> BUT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO BUILD MORE.
WE'RE MOVING INTO VACANT OFFICE SPACE, SO THIS PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BECOME VACANT OFFICE SPACE IF THERE IS ALREADY THAT ON THE MARKET.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING THE MARKET WOULD TELL US.
>> BECAUSE THE MARKET IS SAYING THEY DON'T WANT IT.
THAT'S BASICALLY IT. THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON HERE.
>> DOWNTOWN IS DEFINITELY TRANSITIONING TO MORE OF A HOTEL, LIFESTYLE, OR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD FIELD AND A TRADITIONAL OFFICE, THAT IS FOR SURE.
>> THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN, MAYOR POLLINO.
>> THANK YOU. I WANT TO THANK STAFF FOR THEIR PRESENTATION.
I WANT TO THANK OUR PRESERVATION COMMUNITY FOR COMING OUT.
I RESIDE IN A HOME THAT'S OVER 100-YEARS-OLD.
LOVE THE DESIGN, THE CHARACTER, BUT ALSO KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS.
KNOW HOW MUCH WEAR AND TEAR IT TAKES.
[01:40:03]
WE TALKED ABOUT THE NECESSARY REPAIRS FOR CITY HALL, HVAC, ELEVATORS, THE ROOF.THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE COULD ADDRESS.
HOWEVER, WHAT I DON'T SEE US COVERING IS THE CONCERNS WITH THE MODERNIZATION AND SPACE PLANNING FOR CITY HALL.
WE HAVE LOOK AROUND HERE, CONCRETE WALLS.
I THINK IT'S CHALLENGING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE SOME OF THOSE WALLS DOWN, BUILD AROUND THE ATRIUM WHERE WE HAVE HEAT AND AC THAT'S JUST CIRCULATING IN THOSE SPACES.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALSO GIVING STAFF AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHIME IN ON WHAT THEIR WORK EXPERIENCES AT CITY HALL, WHETHER IT'S THE FOOD, WHETHER IT'S OUR RESTROOMS, WHETHER IT'S GOING FROM ONE DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER.
A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, I WAS HESITANT ABOUT WHICH OPTION TWO OR THREE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH.
AFTER LEARNING MORE, I THINK I'M READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH OPTION 3 AND I WANT TO GIVE STAFF SOME CLEAR DIRECTION.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON OF WHAT IT WOULD BE TO STAY HERE AT CITY HALL WITH THOSE RENOVATIONS INCLUDING MODERNIZATION.
I THINK THAT'S A BIG PIECE TO THIS.
ALSO, WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE TO GO INTO A NEW OFFICE SPACE, WHETHER THAT'S A LEASE, WHETHER THAT'S A PURCHASE.
AS MENTIONED EARLIER, DOWNTOWN IS AT A TURNING POINT, HUGE OPPORTUNITIES BEFORE US.
WE NOW HAVE OVER 20,000 RESIDENTS LIVING IN DOWNTOWN.
THAT ACTIVATION IS SO CRITICAL.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SYNERGY THAT WE HAVE IN THE NORTHERN AND CENTRAL PART OF DOWNTOWN COMES TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF DOWNTOWN, THE AREA THAT I REPRESENT, INTO THE CEDARS AND NATURALLY FLOWING DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO SOUTH DALLAS AND SOUTHERN DALLAS.
WE HAVE A LOT OF COMPETING INTERESTS, AND IF THERE IS A WAY TO GROW THAT TAX BASE, I WANT TO TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT IT.
I HOPE THAT ROSA AND THE TEAM THAT WE'RE ABLE TO LOOK AT WHAT A ECONOMIC STUDY WOULD LOOK LIKE, ON WHETHER IT'S A HOTEL, WHETHER IT'S OFFICE SPACE, WHETHER IT'S HOUSING, WHETHER IT'S ENTERTAINMENT, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE IS GIVE US SOME CLEAR GUIDANCE ON WHAT THAT WOULD ADD TO THE TAX BASE AND HOW THAT WOULD BENEFIT NOT JUST THE LAND THAT WE SIT ON, BUT THE AREAS AROUND CITY HALL, I THINK WOULD BE CRITICAL.
IF WE WERE TO DO ANY REPAIR TO CITY HALL, I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE IT OVER 15, 20, 30 YEARS.
TO ME, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY A BOND WOULD BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT.
THAT LEAVES JEOPARDY, WHETHER THE VOTERS WOULD APPROVE THOSE BONDS AS THEY COME IN TRANCHES.
BUT LET'S SAY THAT WE PUT IN A BOND SPECIFICALLY FOR CITY HALL AT $300 MILLION.
WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO OUR CREDIT RATING AND HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT HOW THE CITY FINANCIAL HEALTH LOOKS LIKE?
AGAIN, JACK ARLAND, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
DOING A CITY HALL DEDICATED BOND PROPOSITION WOULDN'T HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR BOND RATING.
OUR BOND RATING IS PRETTY GOOD NOW.
AS I MENTIONED TO COUNCIL MEMBER BLAIR EARLIER, THE ISSUE IS ABOUT CAPACITY, HOW MUCH WE CAN AFFORD TO PAY BACK.
BASED ON OUR CURRENT ASSUMPTIONS, WE HAVE BUILT IN THAT WE WILL ISSUE THE REMAINING 2024 BONDS OVER THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.
THEN IN 2030 HAVE ANOTHER BOND PROGRAM.
IF YOU WANTED TO ACCELERATE AND DO A DIFFERENT PROPOSITION, IF YOU HAD A HIGHER PRIORITY, YOU WANTED TO DO THAT NOW, YOU COULD OF COURSE, DO THAT, SEEK VOTER APPROVAL, AND THEN SUBSTITUTE THE SEQUENCING OF WHEN YOU DO PROJECTS AND DELAY SOME OF THE PROJECTS FROM '24.
BUT IT'S ALL ABOUT COUNCIL'S PRIORITIES ON WHAT GOES FIRST.
[01:45:02]
X IS ABOUT $250 MILLION IN BONDS. THANK YOU.>> DON ZELLE, SO I LAID OUT SOME OF THE EXPECTATIONS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE COME BEFORE THIS BODY.
WHAT IS A REALISTIC TIMELINE? AGAIN, I OPENED UP WITH MY CONCERN OF THE BUDGET IMPLEMENTATIONS THAT THIS COULD HAVE.
I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY STARTING TO WORK ON THE BUDGET.
BUT WILL TWO, THREE MONTHS BE A REALISTIC TIMELINE FOR YOU GUYS TO COME BACK WITH A ECONOMIC STUDY ON WHAT WE COULD DO HERE WITH THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY, AND WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE TO GO LEASE OR PURCHASE A NEW LOCATION?
>> I'D LET ACM ROBIN TALK MORE ABOUT THE ECONOMIC STUDY IF THERE WAS ANALYSIS THAT WOULD BE DONE THERE.
>> IF WE'RE HIRING A CONSULTANT TO DO A MARKET STUDY AND ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY, I DON'T THINK WE CAN GET THAT DONE IN TWO OR THREE MONTHS, FRANKLY.
JUST THE TIME TO PROCURE THE VENDOR AND GET THE CONTRACT NEGOTIATED AND EXECUTED WOULD NOT LEAVE THEM MUCH TIME FOR ACTUAL WORK.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LONGER TIME FRAME.
IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT USING EXISTING CONTRACTS THAT ROSA HAS, POTENTIALLY THAT COULD GO A LITTLE BIT FASTER.
I'D HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AND SEE WHAT OUR REMAINING CAPACITY IS UNDER THOSE CONTRACTS.
>> THANK YOU. JUST AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, AT THIS POINT, I'M READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH OPTION 3.
WE'RE GOING TO GET READY TO GO BACK IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, BUT I WANTED TO JUST DO A LIGHTNING ROUND ONE MORE TIME AROUND THE HORSESHOE BEFORE WE DO THAT. GO AHEAD.
>> ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, A QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU.
CAN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION PERFORM THAT STUDY THAT WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING?
>> I'M SURE THEY COULD, BUT I'M SURE WANT TO BE COMPENSATED FOR THAT.
IT WOULD SAVE THE PROCUREMENT TIME SINCE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PROCURE.
>> BUT JUST COULD HAPPEN IN A SHORTER SPAN OF TIME IF WE CAN FIND FUNDING FOR IT.
>> IF WE FIND FUNDING AND THEY'RE AMENABLE, IT WOULD CUT OUT THE PROCUREMENT TIMELINE, YES.
>> PASSING. ANYBODY ON THE SIDE? GO AHEAD. CHAIR GRACEY.
>> THANK YOU. REAL QUICK, I DIDN'T HEAR THE 70 MILLION.
I DIDN'T HEAR A RESPONSE TO THAT.
I JUST WANT TO GO BACK AND SEE.
CHAIR RIDLEY MENTIONED 70 MILLION THAT WAS UNENCUMBERED IN BOND FUNDS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
>> I DON'T HAVE A LINE ITEM DETAIL ON ENCUMBERED FUNDS.
OUR CFO OR SOMEONE FROM PUBLIC WORKS WOULD HAVE TO HELP US WITH THAT ONE, EXCUSE ME, OFFICE OF THE BOND PROGRAM.
>> THERE ARE SOME UNENCUMBERED FUNDS FROM THE 2017 BOND PROGRAM THAT WAS REFERENCED.
I THINK IT WAS ABOUT $13 MILLION IN THAT PARTICULAR PROPOSITION.
AS YOU LOOK AT BOND FUNDS, OF COURSE, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE PROPOSITION.
YOU STREET FUNDS FOR FACILITY, SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CITY FACILITY TYPE OF PROPOSITION.
I THINK THERE WAS ABOUT $13 MILLION.
I DON'T KNOW FROM THE INFORMATION I HAD IF IT WAS DEDICATED TO A SPECIFIC PROJECT IN A DIFFERENT CITY FACILITY.
I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE PROPOSITION IN TOTAL.
WITHOUT DIGGING IN A LITTLE DEEPER, THAT'S THE BEST ANSWER I CAN GIVE RIGHT NOW.
>> THANK YOU. I'LL JUST TO SAY FOR THE RECORD, TOO THAT I'M READY TO MOVE ON WITH OPTION 3.
BUT I ALSO WILL ASK THIS QUESTION BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE IF THIS WAS INCLUDED OR PERHAPS MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION.
BUT AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH DOING THESE ASSESSMENTS, I'M ASSUMING WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER CITY PROPERTIES AS WELL TO FIGURE OUT AN OPPORTUNITY TO POTENTIALLY CONSOLIDATE.
WHILE WE SAY WE'RE FUNCTIONING WITH 2,200 PEOPLE RIGHT NOW, THERE COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING AN ADDITIONAL 500 OR SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE FACTORING THAT IN TOO.
WE'RE NOT IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT IN ANOTHER FACILITY OFF SITE SOMEWHERE ELSE WHEN WE COULD HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSOLIDATE.
>> ABSOLUTELY. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.
I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS WHEN WE'RE HERE AND WE'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH A RANGE OF QUESTIONS COMING UP ABOUT SPACE PLANNING AND THERE ARE SUGGESTIONS THAT MAYBE WE HAVEN'T CONSIDERED A COUNCIL CHAMBER OR SOME OF THE OTHER PUBLIC SPACES.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE AND WE PLAN ON DOING IS DOING A HARD LOOK AT STAFF, WHERE ARE THEY LOCATED? WHERE DO WE CO-LOCATE? CAN WE COMBINE RESOURCES WITH OTHERS EVEN POTENTIALLY? I THINK WE'RE GOING TO INCORPORATE THOSE THINGS INTO OUR SPECS WHEN WE GO LOOK FOR LEASE SPACE.
I THINK THE REAL MESSAGE HERE IS, THERE'S OCCUPANCY OUT THERE AVAILABLE TO US.
CITY HAS THE ABILITY AND THE LEVERAGE TO GO NEGOTIATE THAT SPACE AND POTENTIALLY SOMETHING MORE FAVORABLE THAN WHAT'S SHOWN IN THE BRIEFING.
I THINK WE HAVE THAT LEVERAGE AND WE'LL HAVE THAT CAPACITY BECAUSE DOWNTOWN HAS THAT SUPPLY.
[01:50:04]
ASKING THAT QUESTION, I THINK YOU'RE SPOT ON.>> THEN I'LL CLOSE IT WITH THIS, FROM A STRUCTURE PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A BRICK.
WE KNOW FROM A STRUCTURE PERSPECTIVE, IT'S 30.
BUT TO MY COLLEAGUES, MANY OF THEM HAVE MENTIONED IT, AND I THINK EVEN MAYOR PRO TEM MORENO MENTIONED JUST FROM AN EFFICIENCY PERSPECTIVE AND HOW WE EVEN DO GOVERNMENT.
HOW WE EVEN DO GOVERNMENT? HOW IT'S EVOLVED SINCE 2005, WHEN I FIRST WALKED IN THIS BUILDING, COMPARED TO HOW WE'RE DOING GOVERNMENT NOW, COMPARED TO HOW WE DO GOVERNMENT IN THE FUTURE? MAKING SURE, AND THIS BUILDING, IN MY OPINION, HASN'T GIVEN US THE ABILITY TO CHANGE WITH HOW GOVERNMENT IS EVOLVING OVER TIME, AND EVEN HOW WE EVEN SERVE THE PUBLIC, HOW WE SERVE THE FUNCTIONS WITH US WITHIN THIS BUILDING, HOW CITY EMPLOYEES FUNCTION IN THERE.
AGAIN, FROM AN EFFICIENCY PERSPECTIVE, IT'S NOT JUST A SOLUTION OF, IS THIS BUILDING A STRUCTURE THAT COULD BE MAINTAINED? YEAH, PROBABLY SO.
HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST? IT'S GOING TO COST THIS.
HOW MUCH OF AN ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY WOULD WE BE MISSING OUT ON IF WE WERE TO STAY HERE? BUT THEN FROM AN OPERATIONAL AND EFFICIENCY PERSPECTIVE, HOW MUCH OF AN OPPORTUNITY ARE WE MISSING OUT IN TERMS OF HOW WE EVOLVE AS A CITY AND HOW WE SERVE THE CITY AND HOW THE CITY INTERACTS WITH US? ALL OF THESE THINGS I'M LOOKING WANT TO BE FACTORING INTO.
IT'S NOT JUST CAN WE FIND A REPLACEMENT BUILDING, BUT HOW CAN WE USE THAT BUILDING TO BETTER SERVE THE PUBLIC AND HOW PUBLIC CAN INTERACT WITH US WITHIN THOSE OTHER BUILDINGS?
>> YES SIR, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.
ONE OF THE PROCESSES WE WOULD USE WOULD BE MAKING SURE THAT WE HEARD FROM THE COUNCIL ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF BUILDING, WHAT THE SPECS WE WOULD WRITE TO GO OUT AND FIND THE SPACE AND THEN DESIGN AND COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL FOR THAT.
>> ASK THE EMPLOYEES, TOO. I'M GOING TO SAY IT BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY WON'T, BUT I BET YOU.
IF YOU ASK THEM, THEY LOVE THIS BUILDING, THEY SENTIMENTAL TO THIS BUILDING AS WELL.
BUT I THINK EVERYBODY WILL BE JUMPING IN AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET A NEW SPACE.
>> THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING CHAIRMAN JOHNSON?
>> THANK YOU, CHAIR WEST. COUNCILMAN GRACEY SAID A LOT AND MAYOR PRO TEM SAID A LOT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THIS.
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT JUST GOING INTO THE WALLS, THE UNFORESEEN THINGS, THE ASBESTOS, BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S HERE. PUTTING THE CARPET UP.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT I'VE GONE THROUGH THAT I'VE SEEN THAT WILL ADD MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF COST.
THE UNFORESEEN THINGS THAT WE DON'T BUDGET FOR, BUT IT WILL PROBABLY GO IN A CONTINGENCY PLAN BECAUSE IT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WE WILL HAVE TO TACKLE IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO ADD UP, THE UNFORESEEN COSTS THAT WE NEED TO ADD UP.
AGAIN, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, BRINGING THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IN PREHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMUNITY AND FIND OUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO GROW OUR CITY, I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO INCREASE OUR TAX BASE.
WE HAVE TO CUT COSTS AT THE SAME TIME, INVEST IN DALLAS, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EITHER ALL.
WE CAN DO BOTH AND WE MUST GROWSOUTH.
CITY HALL IS A PART OF THAT GROWSOUTH.
AS COUNCILMAN GRACEY SAID, WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE SEEN IN HOW IT WAS WHEN HE WALKED IN, THE EFFICIENCY PART THAT MAYOR PRO TEM HAS MENTIONED SO ELOQUENTLY.
IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S AT HAND, BUT ALSO MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE PRUDENT WITH OUR DOLLARS AND WE'RE EFFICIENT, SO I'M WITH OPTION 3.
I THINK THAT THAT'S THE OPTION THAT I'M GOING TO FULLY SUPPORT.
AGAIN, MY EXPERIENCE SEEING, AND I'M GOING TO USE THIS TERM BUILDING BEYOND LIFE EXPECTANCY.
THAT'S WHAT I SEE WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THESE PICTURES WHEN I HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON, A BUILDING THAT IS BEYOND LIFE EXPECTANCY, AND JUST PUTTING MORE MONEY ON TOP OF A PROBLEM PATCHWORK HERE IS WHAT WE CALL IN DISTRICT 4, A LIPSTICK ON A PIG, AND I DON'T SUPPORT THAT.
>> THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. COUNCIL MEMBER ROTH, ANYTHING FOR LIGHTNING ROUND.
>> YES, I'D JUST LIKE TO RESPOND TO THE NOTION OF AN ECONOMIC FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR THIS LAND.
I THINK IT WOULD JUST REINFORCE WHAT IS PATENTLY OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH DOWNTOWN, WHICH IS NUMBER 1.
WE'RE CREATING 30 ACRES OF VACANT LAND JUST ADJACENT TO US WITH A NEW CONVENTION CENTER WITH NO DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS IN THE OFFERING FOR THAT LAND.
NEW PARK HAS OWNED OVER TEN ACRES RIGHT OUT OUR BACK DOOR FOR YEARS, THERE'S BEEN NO DEVELOPMENT THERE.
WE HAVE THE HUNT BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT THAT'S BEEN ANNOUNCED, BUT NO DEVELOPMENT HAS STARTED THERE.
WE HAVE THE GRIFFIN CORRIDOR PROJECT, WHICH IS TENS OF ACRES OF VACANT LAND, AND THAT HASN'T STARTED.
WHO DO WE THINK IS GOING TO WANT THIS LAND? I SUBMIT BECAUSE OF THE COST OF DEMOLISHING CITY HALL, WHICH HAS GOT TO EXCEED $10 MILLION,
[01:55:02]
IT WILL BE THE LAST PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT WILL GET REDEVELOPED IN DOWNTOWN, GIVEN THE OTHER OPTIONS THAT DEVELOPERS HAVE.>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER BLACKMON.
>> I JUST HAVE ONE MORE FINAL QUESTION FOR JACK.
CAN I KNOW THAT I ASKED ABOUT, WE'RE GOING TO PUT ALL THE MONEY IN BOND.
BUT I'M ALSO VERY AWARE THAT WE HAVE A TIGHT BUDGET.
IS THERE A WAY TO DO REPAIRS THROUGH OUR GENERAL FUND?
>> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.
AGAIN, JACK HARLAN CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
AS YOU ASKED A WHILE AGO ABOUT WHY WE HAD ASSUMED BOND FUNDS FOR THE PROJECT, IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE THE REPAIRS FROM 150-$350 MILLION, BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER COMPETING INTEREST PRIORITIES FOR OPERATING FUNDS.
WHILE WE HAVE DEFERRED MAINTENANCE, AND WE DON'T INVEST IN AS MUCH IN DEFERRED MAINTENANCE AS WE SHOULD THROUGH OUR ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGETS, WE HAVE OUR PENSION COMMITMENT TO POLICE AND FIRE, OUR PAY COMMITMENTS TO POLICE AND FIRE.
CITY COUNCIL HAS HAD A PRIORITY TO LOWER THE TAX RATE.
WE'VE DONE THAT 10 CONSECUTIVE YEARS NOW.
THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PRIORITIES THAT WE HEAR FROM RESIDENTS, AS WE DO OUR COMMUNITY SURVEY, STREET INFRASTRUCTURE, AND POLICE SERVICES ARE THE TWO TOP PRIORITIES.
YOU GET TO A POINT WHERE WE HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF DOLLARS.
IT'S UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL VERY HARD PROCESS TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS ABOUT WHERE WE PUT THE DOLLARS.
LOOKING FORWARD IF WE HAD TO COME UP WITH ADDITIONAL FUNDS, THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED TO YOU EARLIER WHEN YOU ASK THAT WE HAD ASSUMED BOND FUNDS, BECAUSE IN OUR OPERATING BUDGETS, THERE ARE JUST SO MANY COMPETING PRIORITIES, INCLUDING REDUCTIONS TO THE TAX RATE THAT WE'RE FACED WITH EACH YEAR.
>> IF STAFF WERE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO INVEST IN CITY HALL, THE BOND COMMITTEE MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO INVEST IN CITY HALL.
THIS COUNCIL MADE A PRIORITY TO INVEST IN CITY HALL, BUT IT GOES OUT TO THE VOTERS.
IF THE VOTERS TURN THIS BOND PROPOSITION DOWN, WHERE DOES THAT PUT US?
>> TRYING TO IDENTIFY SOME OTHER FUNDING SOURCE, IF THE DECISION IS TO STAY IN THIS BUILDING, AND OUR FIRST CHOICE IS TO ASK THE VOTERS FOR AUTHORIZATION TO BORROW MONEY, TO ISSUE DEBT, TO DO IT.
IF THE VOTERS WERE TO DENY THAT, AND THE CITY COUNCIL STILL HAD THE OPINION THAT WE SHOULD STAY IN THIS BUILDING, THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE COMPETING ISSUES, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH OUR OPERATING BUDGET, TAX RATE INCREASE, ETC, TO BE ABLE TO FUND THAT.
WE WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE. THERE'S A LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT YOU CAN'T ASK THE VOTERS AGAIN FOR A FEW YEARS IF THEY TURN A PROPOSITION DOWN, SO WE COULDN'T ASK THEM TWICE BACK TO BACK.
THERE WOULD BE SOME TIME LIMIT ON THAT.
BUT IF WE DON'T ISSUE BONDS BECAUSE VOTERS DON'T APPROVE IT, THEN IT'S IN LINE WITH THE OTHER COMPETING INTEREST, TAX RATE REDUCTION, POLICE PAY, POLICE AND FIRE PENSION, STREETS, ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU WANT.
>> THANK YOU. I'LL JUST CLOSE WITH THIS.
WE SEE THE PRIVATE MARKET AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR INVEST WHEN OUR CITY MAKES BIG DECISIONS.
WE SEE THAT PRIVATE MARKET MOVES WHEN WE SHOW A PATH FORWARD.
WE SAW THAT WITH THE CONVENTION CENTER WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING AROUND THE DEVELOPMENT THERE.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS HOLISTICALLY, AND AGAIN, I THINK STAFF IS KEY.
WE NEED TO PULL STAFF AS WELL TO SEE THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THIS BUILDING. THANK YOU.
I'LL JUST CLOSE BEFORE WE READ THE EXECUTIVE SESSION LANGUAGE.
COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE BEEN, A LOT OF GREAT QUESTIONS, REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION.
A COUPLE OF REQUESTS THAT HAVE COME OUT.
ONE IS FOR A LICENSED ENGINEER TO DO THE REPAIR ESTIMATES.
I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TIMELINE IS FOR THAT, INCLUDING THE PROCUREMENT TIME.
IF YOU CAN BRING THAT BACK TO US, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN HAVE IT DONE BY THE FINANCE COMMITTEE TOMORROW, BUT THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION I'D HAVE.
UNDER THE OPTION A AND B, CONSIDERATION OF OPTIONS ON PAGES 39 AND 40.
THESE ARE LEASE OPTION A, WHICH ARE, I GUESS, A LITTLE BIT NICER OF A BUILDING VERSUS LEASE OPTION B.
WOULD LIKE TO FLESH THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT SOME OF THE OPTIONS WOULD LOOK LIKE,
[02:00:03]
HOW THE BUILDINGS THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED WOULD FIT IN WITH CITY HALL.AS MR. RIDLEY MENTIONED THE COMMUNITY SPACE WHERE WE WOULD GATHER, THESE ARE FACTORS WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT IF WE'RE GOING TO BE RELOCATING.
WHERE DO WE HOLD RECEPTIONS IN FORMAL EVENTS AND PRESS CONFERENCES AND ALL THAT STUFF? IT'S NOT JUST OFFICES.
I'D LIKE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT CLEARER PICTURE OF WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
THEN, AS COUNCILWOMAN BLACKMON MENTIONED, IF IT'S POSSIBLE WE'LL GET MORE INFORMATION ON THE SALES TAX, THE REVENUE THAT 15 ACRES DOWN HERE COULD GENERATE.
WE KNOW WHAT THAT OPPORTUNITY IS FOR THAT SIDE ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE, IF WE DO MOVE.
THOSE ARE JUST THINGS THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO FLESH OUT.
WITH THAT BEING SAID, IT IS 3:06 PM ON NOVEMBER 3RD, 2025.
THE SPECIAL CALLED JOINT MEETING OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE AND COMMITTEE FINANCE, WILL NOW GO INTO CLOSED SESSION UNDER SECTIONS 551.071 AND 551.072 OF THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT ON THE FOLLOWING MATTER DESCRIBED ON TODAY'S AGENDA, AGENDA ITEM B.
THANK YOU. THE SPECIAL CALLED JOINT MEETING OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE AND COMMITTEE ON FINANCE MEETING HAS COMPLETED ITS CLOSED SESSION UNDER SECTIONS 551.071, AND 551.072 OF THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT END AT 4:27 PM ON NOVEMBER 3RD, 2025.
WE HAVE RETURNED TO OPEN SESSION.
>> THE TIME NOW IS 4:27 AND ECO DEV COMMITTEE HAS ADJOURNED.
>> THE FINANCE COMMITTEE ALSO ADJOURNS. THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.