* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] ALL RIGHT. OUR TECHNICAL [Landmark on January 5, 2026] [*This meeting was joined in progress* ] ISSUE HAS BEEN RESOLVED AND THOSE WATCHING THIS ON CHANNEL 97 AT HOME CAN NOW HEAR US. UM, SO WE HAD COMPLETED READING IT INTO THE RECORD. WE HAD COMPLETING READING THE TASK FORCE. WE HAD NOT COMPLETED READING TASK FORCE. OKAY. READ TASK FORCE, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT, LET'S SEE, LET'S MAKE SURE I'M READING THE RIGHT ONE. TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A TEMPORARY ART INSTALLATION ON THE MAIN BUILDING BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE. PAINTING OF THE STEPS DOES NOT COMPLY WITH CHAPTER 51 DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE, ORDINANCE 1 8 3 5 7 DATED 8 2 19 84. PARAGRAPH FIVE PERTAINING TO COLOR ANY PAINTING OR USE OF NEW MATERIALS DUE TO ADDITIONS, EXTENSIONS, ALTERATIONS, REPAIRS, AND MAINTENANCE SHALL COMPLY WITH THE COLORING OF EXISTING MATERIALS IN POLICIES. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. AND I'LL POINT OUT FOR ALL OF YOU LISTENING AND WONDERING WHY THAT'S ALARMING. UM, THE TASK FORCE IS CORRECT. IT'S STRICTLY SPEAKING, THE ORDINANCE SAYS ONE CANNOT PAINT THE STEPS. BRIGHT COLORS. THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING EARLIER. WE CAN SAY YOU CAN DO THINGS THAT THE ORDINANCE DOESN'T STRICTLY ALLOW. STAFF CAN'T DO IT, BUT WE, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION CAN DO THAT. SO NOW WHEN WE HEAR FROM SPEAKERS ON A PARTICULAR ITEM, WE USUALLY START WITH THE APPLICANT FOLLOWED BY THOSE IN SUPPORT OF IT, AND THEN ANY WHO ARE OPPOSED. SO FAR, ALL OF OUR YELLOW SHEETS, NO ONE CIRCLED THAT THEY WERE OPPOSED. BUT, UM, AND, AND AT THE TIME WHEN WE, WE HEAR THOSE WHO ARE IN AGREEMENT, IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE SPEAKING AND SOME OF YOU DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO SPEAK, THEN YOU COULD JUST HAVE SOMEONE PRESENT FOR ALL OF YOU AND ALL THOSE IN SUPPORT OF WHAT THEY'RE SAYING COULD STAND UP OR WE'LL HEAR ALL OF YOU, WHATEVER YOU WISH TO DO. I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW IT'S NOT NECESSARY, NECESSARY TO REPEAT IF YOU RUN OUT OF WAYS TO SUPPORT IT. I'VE, I'VE BEEN IN THAT POSITION NOW, THE 22ND SPEAKER IN SUPPORT OF SOMETHING AND THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO SAY. SO I ASSUME THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD BE REPRESENTED BY, UH, THE REVEREND RACHEL GRIFFIN. ALLISON, WHO HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. OKAY, MA'AM, WE DO ASK THAT BECAUSE WE ARE QUASI-JUDICIAL, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS GIVE US YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND, UM, SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU WILL TELL THE TRUTH. I'VE NEVER REALLY HAD SOMEONE IN ECCLESIASTICAL CALLER I HAD TO ASK TO PLEASE SWEAR, NOT TELL THE TRUTH. , GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS REVEREND RACHEL GRIFFIN. ALLISON, I LIVE AT 1631 SYLVAN AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 0 8. I SWEAR I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY. AND EACH SPEAKER HAS, UH, WE USUALLY ALLOW THREE MINUTES, SO THERE'LL BE A TIMER. IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU NECESSARILY GET CAUGHT UP IN THREE MINUTES. I WANNA BEGIN BY THANKING THE COMMISSION AND STAFF FOR THE CARE AND ATTENTION THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN TO THIS APPLICATION. WE RECOGNIZE THAT YOUR ROLE IS NOT SIMPLY REGULATORY, BUT CUSTODIAL HOLDING TOGETHER HISTORY, INTEGRITY, AND THE EVOLVING LIFE OF OUR CITY. OKON UNITED METHODIST CHURCH HAS STOOD AT THE CORNER OF CEDAR SPRINGS AND OAK LAWN FOR OVER A CENTURY AND FOR MORE THAN 150 YEARS AS A CONGREGATION. THROUGHOUT THAT TIME, OUR BUILDING HAS REMAINED BOTH HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT AND DEEPLY ACTIVE, NOT AS A MUSEUM, BUT AS A LIVING LANDMARK. THE RAINBOW PAINTED STEPS ARE PART OF THAT LIVING STORY. THIS INSTALLATION IS TEMPORARY, FULLY REVERSIBLE AND DOES NOT ALTER OR DAMAGE THE UNDERLYING HISTORIC MATERIAL. WE HAVE TAKEN CARE TO ENSURE THAT THE STEPS THEMSELVES REMAIN STRUCTURALLY INTACT AND PRESERVED CONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS WE APPLY TO EVERY ASPECT OF OUR BUILDING. BUT THESE STEPS ARE ALSO THE PRIMARY THRESHOLD INTO OUR CHURCH. THE PLACE WHERE NEIGHBORS ENTER, WHERE THE COMMUNITY GATHERS, AND WHERE HOSPITALITY IS EXTENDED BEYOND OUR WALLS. FOR OAK LAWN, UMC PAINTING, THE STEPS WAS NOT AN ACT OF DEFIANCE, BUT AN ACT OF FAITH AND PASTORAL CARE. IN A MOMENT WHEN SYMBOLS OF WELCOME AND BELONGING ARE BEING REMOVED FROM OUR SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD, WE DISCERNED THAT SILENCE WOULD NOT BE NEUTRAL. AS A CHURCH ROOTED IN THIS COMMUNITY, WE CHOSE TO RESPOND VISIBLY AND RESPONSIBLY. OUR INTENTION WAS AND REMAINS SIMPLE TO COMMUNICATE TO EVERY PERSON WHO APPROACHES OUR BUILDING THAT THEY ARE SEEN SAFE AND WELCOME. WE UNDERSTAND THAT PUBLIC VISIBILITY CAN INVITE SCRUTINY. WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT HISTORIC LANDMARKS CARRY MEANING BEYOND THEIR MATERIALS. FOR US, THESE [00:05:01] STEPS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PLACE OF GATHERING, WITNESS AND CARE, AND THE CURRENT INSTALLATION CONTINUES THAT LEGACY. I WOULD ALSO NOTE THAT MANY MEMBERS OF OUR CONGREGATION AND OUR COMMUNITY, NEIGHBORS FROM OAK LAWN, ARE PRESENT TODAY NOT TO PRESSURE THIS COMMISSION, BUT BECAUSE THIS PLACE MATTERS TO THEM. THESE STEPS ARE PART OF THEIR STORY. THEY ARE WHERE PEOPLE GATHER, GRIEVE, CELEBRATE AND SEEK BELONGING. LANDMARKS ENDURE BECAUSE COMMUNITIES VALUE THEM AND THAT CARE YOU GIVE TO THIS DECISION TODAY IS FELT FAR BEYOND THIS ROOM. WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR THAT CARE. I AM THANKFUL THAT'S YOUR TIME. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO EXTEND ANOTHER TWO MINUTES TO THE SPEAKER. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS, WHO SECONDS SECOND REEVES. ALL IN FAVOR? PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. GO AHEAD MA'AM. I'LL CONCLUDE HERE. I'M THANKFUL THAT THE STAFF HAVE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION, AND I WANT TO ASSURE THE COMMISSION THAT OAK LAWN UMC REMAINS COMMITTED TO RESPONSIBLE STEWARDSHIP, TRANSPARENCY, AND ONGOING DIALOGUE. WE ARE PROUD OF OUR HISTORY, ATTENTIVE TO PRESERVATION STANDARDS, AND EQUALLY COMMITTED TO SERVING THE PEOPLE OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WITH DIGNITY AND COMPASSION. WE RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, OUR NEXT SPEAKER WHO REGISTERED WAS JOHN HOR HORNEY HARINI. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS JOHN REINI AND I RESIDE AT 50 12 LA CHATEAU NUMBER 1 2 6 IN DALLAS, TEXAS, 7 5 2 3 5. AND YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH AND I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. THANK YOU SIR. , I KNOW YOU WILL, BUT I'M REQUIRED TO ASK EVERYBODY. OAKLAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH HAS SERVED OUR COMMUNITY SINCE 1874 FOR OVER 150 YEARS. WE FUNCTION BOTH AS A PLACE OF WORSHIP, A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE GATHER FOR EDUCATION, FOR COMMUNITY EVENTS, AND ONE THAT FOSTERS CIVIC AND NEIGHBORHOOD PRIDE AND SENSE OF IDENTITY, WHICH IS IN KEEPING WITH ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF THE LANDMARK, UH, COMMISSION. OUR HISTORIC SANCTUARY AT THE CORNER OF CEDAR SPRINGS AND OAKLAWN AVENUE, WHICH WAS BUILT IN 1915, WHICH PREDATES THE INCORPORATION OF CEDAR SPRINGS INTO THE CITY OF DALLAS. IT'S A, IT HAS IT BEAUTIFUL STAINED GLASS WINDOWS. IT HAS A CARON, A BELL, ALL OF WHICH REMIND THE COMMUNITY OF OUR PRESENCE. AND ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF OUR PRESENCE IS OUR BUILDING. OUR BUILDING IS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A VITAL PART OF DALLAS, AND PEOPLE PASS BY AND SEE OUR BUILDING AND THEY KNOW, UH, THAT THAT IS AN ACTIVE AND VITAL CHURCH THAT IS THE DAILY WITNESS TO THE POWER OF GOD'S TRANSFORMATIVE LOVE. AS A FORMER CHURCH TRUSTEE, I WANT TO ASSURE THE COMMISSION THAT WE TAKE OUR ROLE AS STEWARDS OF THIS HISTORIC LANDMARK WITH THE UTMOST SINCE SERIOUSNESS. IN 2017, WE COMPLETED AN EXTENSIVE EXTERIOR RESTORATION TO ORIGINAL SPECIFICATIONS. OUR COMMITMENT TO AUTHENTICITY WAS SO DEEP THAT WE HIRED A CONTRACTOR, RECOGNIZED FOR RESTORING THE STATE CAPITAL. WE RESEARCHED THE ORIGINAL COLOR OF THE GROUT BETWEEN OUR BRICKS. WE FOUND A REPLACEMENT OF TILE. THOSE AREAS OF BALLAST THAT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE STONE, THEY'RE ACTUALLY A CERAMIC TILE. THERE'S ONLY ONE FACTORY IN ITALY LEFT THAT MAKES THOSE TILES. AND WE GOT THOSE TILES TO REPLACE HOLES THAT WERE IN WHAT APPEARS TO BE STONE, BUT IS ACTUALLY CERAMIC STONE, UH, TILE. THE STEPS ARE MORE THAN JUST A, A POINT OF INGRESS AND EGRESS TO OUR FACILITY. THEY'RE THE THRESHOLD OF OUR RADICAL HOSPITALITY. THEY WELCOME THE OAK LAWN COMMUNITY TO EVENTS SUCH AS THE YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE EVENT HELD IN 2016 AFTER PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED ON THE STREETS OF OAK LAWN WALKING AT AT NIGHT. AND WE ORGANIZED A CONCERT THAT BROUGHT TOGETHER THE COMMUNITY AND HELD IT IN OUR CHURCH FOR OUR COMMUNITY. WE, WE'VE, UM, PROVIDED A PLACE OF REST FOR THOSE WHO ARE WATCHING THE ALLEN ROSS FREEDOM PARADE WHEN IT USED TO PASS RIGHT BY OUR CHURCH. WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW PLACES THAT HAD PUBLIC ACCESS TO BATHROOMS AND A RESTING SPOT ON THE PARADE ROUTE. AND WE OPENED OUR CHURCH FOR THAT AND IT SERVED AS AN OUTDOOR SANCTUARY FOR THE MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR THE LATE PASTOR GREG ALLEN SMITH, WHO DIED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC. [00:10:01] THAT IS YOUR TIME, SIR. I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE GIVE THE GENTLEMAN TWO MORE MINUTES. THIS IS COMMISSIONER NOOSA. THANK YOU. COMM KHOSA. SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ALL THOSE OPPOSED. THANK YOU. OKAY. YOU HAVE TWO MORE MINUTES, SIR. THANK YOU. THEY SERVED AS AN OUTDOOR SANCTUARY AT A TIME WHEN OUR SANCTUARY WAS CLOSED DOWN TO COVID. AND WE ALL SAW TODAY HOW COVID HAS CHANGED ALL THE WAY THAT WE RELATE TO EACH OTHER , AND THAT WE ARE, THAT WE ARE BROUGHT TOGETHER THROUGH THE MIRACLE OF TECHNOLOGY WHEN IT WORKS, BUT WHEN IT DOESN'T, AND HERE WE ARE. UM, THAT WAS, UH, THE PLACE WHERE WE STAGED THIS MEMORIAL SERVICE. AND AS A PERSONAL MATTER, UH, IT'S THOSE STEPS WERE I GOT MARRIED TO MY HUSBAND IN 2017 BECAUSE FOR VARIOUS REASONS THAT WE WON'T GO INTO, WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE OUR SAME SEX WEDDING INSIDE OUR CHURCH, BUT WE HELD THEM ON THOSE STEPS TO SHOW THE WORLD WHAT IT MEANT TO BE A WELCOMING PLACE FOR ALL PEOPLE. WE VIEW THIS APPLICATION FOR THE TEMPORARY INSTALLATION AND PAINTING OF THE STEPS AS AN EXTENSION OF OUR MISSION. A WAY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT GOD'S LOVE REACHES EVERYONE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WHILE WE DO CHERISH OUR PHYSICAL STRUCTURE, ITS GREATEST PURPOSE IS TO SERVE AS A PLATFORM FOR SPREADING UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. WE RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR APPROVAL OF, OF OUR APPLICATION FOR THIS INSTALLATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, SIR. OUR NEXT REGISTERED SPEAKER IS JAVIER ENRIQUEZ. MR. ENRIQUEZ HERE, IS HE OUT IN THE OVERFLOW ROOM PER CHANCE? THERE ARE NO STAFF MEMBERS OVER THERE TO GO ASK. WELL, HE'S ON. ALRIGHT. WE DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE OUR NEXT SPEAKER. SO THAT BRINGS US TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE YELLOW SHEETS. OH, THAT'S IT. OKAY. YOU WERE ALMOST LATE AFTER WE MADE YOU WAIT FOREVER, . OKAY. IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, WE NEED YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND DO YOU DO SWEAR OR AFFIRM YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH. MY NAME IS JAVIER ENRIQUEZ. I LIVE AT 1930 ATLANTIC STREET, 7 5 2 2 4. AND I AFFIRM THAT I'LL TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY, SIR, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. UM, HELLO, MY NAME IS JAVIER ENRIQUEZ. I'M A GAY MAN, A LIFELONG RESIDENT OF THE DALLAS AREA, AND ON BEHALF OF PRISM HEALTH NORTH TEXAS, WE STRONGLY URGE THE COUNCIL TO APPROVE THE ART INSTALL INSTALLATION OUTSIDE THE OAKLAWN METHODIST CHURCH. PRISM HEALTH IS INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE OAK LAWN COMMUNITY IN ITS HISTORY AS WE'VE WORKED TO PROVIDE ACCESSIBLE HEALTHCARE THROUGH OUR HEALTH CENTERS SINCE OUR INCEPTION DURING THE HIV, UH, AIDS CRISIS OVER 40 YEARS AGO DURING THE HIV AIDS EPIDEMIC OF THE EIGHTIES, HEALTHCARE RESOURCES OR ANY OTHER LGBTQ PLUS RESOURCES FOR THAT MATTER, WE'RE SCARCELY AVAILABLE REQUIRING OAKLAWN AREA TO STEP UP TO TAKE CARE OF ITS COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND RESIDENTS. DESPITE THE UNBEARABLE SOCIOPOLITICAL POLITICAL CRIME AT THE TIME, WHILE MANY LIVES WERE UNFORTUNATELY LOST, THE OAKLAWN COMMUNITY PERSEVERED AND WAS THE FIRST CITY TO LATER RECEIVE AN HISTORICAL MARKER BY THE STATE OF TEXAS HONORING THE CROSSROADS OF SEARS SPRINGS AND THROCKMORTON AS A CENTER OF THE DALLAS L-G-B-T-Q COMMUNITY. AND WITH THE ONSLAUGHT OF THE AIDS CRISIS OF THE 1980S, THE CROSSROADS BECAME NOT ONLY AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, BUT ALSO A CENTER FOR COMMUNITY ORGANIZING SOCIAL SERVICES AND MEDICAL TESTING. NOW WE ARE FACING BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL TARGETING OF COMMUNITIES LIKE OAK LAWN THAT ARE ALREADY DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED AND AT RISK FOR LOWER HEALTH RELATED OUTCOMES, INCLUDING OUTCOMES ASSOCIATED WITH MENTAL HEALTH. ACCORDING TO THE TREVOR PROJECT'S 2024 SURVEY ON THE MENTAL HEALTH OF LGBTQ PLUS YOUNG PEOPLE IN TEXAS, 42% OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS L-G-B-T-Q HAVE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED SUICIDE. AND 60% OF THOSE HAVE ALSO EXPERIENCED DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF THEIR IDENTITY OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. THERE ARE MANY FACTORS OF WHAT MAKES HEALTHY COMMUNITIES. THESE INCLUDE THE PRESERVATION OF CULTURE, MEANINGFUL REPRESENTATION, AND A SENSE OF TRUST IN LOCAL GOVERNANCE. THE OAK LAWN, UMC IS PART OF A LONG HISTORIC LEGACY OF RESILIENCE AND SERVES AS A BEACON OF HOPE FOR SOME OF THE MOST VULNERABLE IN DALLAS. I ASK THAT THE COUNCIL TAKE ACTION TO STAND WITH LGBTQ PLUS COMMUNITY DURING THE CHALLENGING TIMES AND MOVE FORWARD TO APPROVE THE INSTALLATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. AND VERY SPEEDY TOO. SO GOT THROUGH THAT QUICKLY. ALL RIGHT. I, I SEE MORE YELLOW SLIPS COMING TO ME. OKAY. THOSE WERE, OH, THOSE ARE THE OVERFLOW. OKAY. THOSE WERE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED UP AHEAD OF TIME ONLINE, SO NOW WE CAN MOVE ON TO THOSE WHO HAVE FILLED OUT A YELLOW SHEET SINCE COMING HERE. [00:15:01] NOW, AGAIN, IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO JUST WANTS TO SHOW YOUR SUPPORT, BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO SPEAK OR WOULD RATHER NOT, SOME PEOPLE ARE SHY, YOU COULD JUST STAND UP AS THE NEXT PERSON COMES TO INDICATE THAT YOU AGREE WITH THEIR, WITH THE, UM, VIEWS EXPRESSED SO FAR IN FAVOR OF US VOTING TO APPROVE THESE STEPS. SO I WILL JUST GRAB A NAME AT RAN A RANDOM SETH KL. OKAY. . I'M, I'VE SAID SO MANY NAMES WRONG IN THIS POSITION AND THAT ONE JUST, THAT ONE'S TOUGH. OKAY. IS THE MIC ON? I CAN HEAR YOU. SO I GUESS IT IS ON. OKAY. WELL, AS WE'VE ESTABLISHED, MY NAME IS SETH NIVO. I LIVE AT 65 0 3 WEST SHADY SHORES ROAD IN DENTON, TEXAS. DOES THAT MEAN I CAN'T DO THAT? YOU, YOU CAN SAY, YOU CAN SAY THIS. JUST FANTASTIC. WE'VE HAD PEOPLE FROM NEW JERSEY LOG ON TO TALK SO , I WASN'T GONNA DRIVE THAT FAR TODAY, UH, BUT I DO SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY, GOOD. I START, CAN I START? YEAH, GO. YEAH. FANTASTIC. WHERE, WAIT. UM, SO ALTHOUGH I DON'T LIVE IN DALLAS, TEXAS, I AM A GAY HISTORIAN AND I HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK HERE IN DALLAS, UH, DOING ARCHIVAL THINGS AND, UM, LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AND ITS HISTORY. AND I ALSO WAS KICKED OUTTA MY CHURCH WHEN I CAME OUTTA THE CLOSET SEVEN YEARS AGO. LAST YEAR I STARTED GOING TO CHURCH AGAIN, AND I HAVE STARTED TO BURY THE HATCHET WITH THE CHURCH THAT WAS, UM, LODGED IN MY BACK FOR SO LONG. I COME TODAY TO PROVIDE MAYBE A BIBLICAL RATIONALE FOR WHY WE DID THIS. I SAY WE, I, THAT WASN'T ME. UH, BUT THE, THE REASON I I COME IS BECAUSE, UM, WHEN WE PAINTED THE THE STEPS, IT REALLY REMINDED ME OF AN ALLEGORY AND LUKE, SPECIFICALLY LUKE, UH, 22. JESUS IS ABOUT TO BE ARRESTED AND HE'S THERE WITH SOME OF HIS DISCIPLES. UM, AND SO I'LL READ HERE LUKE 2249. WHEN THOSE AROUND JESUS SAW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, THEY SAID TO HIM, LORD, SHALL WE STRIKE WITH THE SWORD? AND ONE OF THEM STRUCK THE SERVANT WITH, UH, THE HIGH PRIEST AND CUT OFF HIS RIGHT EAR. BUT JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID, PERMIT EVEN THIS, AND TOUCHED HIS EAR AND HEALED HIM. AND THE REASON I BRING THIS UP IS BECAUSE THE STATE OF TEXAS HAS WOUNDED US, THEY TOOK AWAY OUR CROSSWALK, AND IT IS CHRISTLIKE TO ALLOW THIS CHURCH TO THEN GO FORWARD AND REPENT. WE CAN'T NECESSARILY GET OUR CROSSWALKS BACK BECAUSE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS, BUT WHAT WE CAN DO HERE ON THIS COUNCIL IS ALLOW FOR THE HEALING THAT JESUS CHRIST, NOT ONLY PROFESS, BUT ALSO PRACTICE. I IMPLORE YOU TO ALLOW US TO KEEP THE RAINBOW STEPS ON THIS CHURCH BECAUSE IT IS CHRISTLIKE TO DO SO. THIS IS A HISTORICAL CHURCH, AND IF WE ARE TO PRESERVE THE LANDMARK AS IT HAS BEEN FOR OVER 120, 150 YEARS, WE SHOULD ALLOW THAT CHURCH TO PRACTICE WHAT IT PREACHES AND TO CARRY ON THE LEGACY OF THE CHRIST THAT THEY SERVE, THAT I WORSHIP, AND THAT THEY REPRESENT IN THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. OH NO, THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT PERSON, WELL EVEN, I CAN'T MESS THIS UP, I THINK DINA JACKSON. HELLO, MY NAME IS DINA JACKSON. I'M HERE TODAY WITH MY HUSBAND BOB EY. WE LIVE AT 72 10 STONE TRAIL DRIVE IN DALLAS, WHICH IS DISTRICT 11, AND I AFFIRM THAT I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. THANK YOU. OKAY, GO AHEAD MATT. SO I'M HERE TODAY TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THE RAINBOW STEPS AT OAKLAWN METHODIST CHURCH. UM, MY FAMILY HAS BEEN TEXAS METHODIST, GOING BACK AT LEAST TO THE TIME OF MY MATERNAL GREAT GRANDPARENTS, WHICH WOULD PLACE THIS IN THE LATE 18 HUNDREDS. THE BUILDING HERE IN OAK LAWN IS CERTAINLY HISTORIC FOR DALLAS. AND THAT ROLE AND THAT POSITION THOUGH SHOULD ALSO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION IN LINE WITH THE COMMUNITY. AS YOU THINK ABOUT APPROVING THIS ART INSTALLATION REQUEST, OAK LAWN AND CEDAR SPRINGS HAS BEEN A SAFE HAVEN AND FOR THE COMMUNITY AND FOR LGBT DALLASITE SINCE THE SIXTIES AND EVEN BEFORE. AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ITSELF HAS A HISTORIC DE DE DESIGNATION. AS SUCH, THE RAINBOW STEPS AT OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH ARE TRULY A REFLECTION OF AND RESPECTFUL OF LOCAL HISTORY AND IN LINE WITH THE MISSIONS MISSION AND THE WISHES OF THE CONGREGATION. AND AS SUCH, I DO HOPE THAT THE COMMISSION WILL VOTE TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE AS SUBMITTED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, MA'AM. LARRY, DUSTIN NEWTON. HI, MY NAME IS LARRY DUSTIN NEWTON. I LIVE AT 26 26 REAGAN STREET, 7 5 2 1 9. UM, [00:20:01] I AM A MEMBER OF OAK PINE. AND YOU'RE TRUTHFUL? OH, I AM. RE OH, I, YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN STARTING WITH THAT. I'M A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH AND SO I DON'T LIE, BUT , I AM A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH AND, UH, THE FINANCE COMMITTEE CHAIR. UM, I JUST WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE FEW THINGS ABOUT THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE SPECIFIC, UM, ISSUE. UM, THE TASK OF FORCE RECOMMENDATION SPECIFICALLY IS BRINGING OUT THE FACT THAT IT'S, UM, UH, COLOR FOR THE STEPS. I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT THE NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION WEBSITE THAT LISTS OUR, UH, THE CHURCH'S, UM, DOCUMENTATION SPECIFICALLY TALKS MORE ABOUT THE CHURCH BUILDING ITSELF, UH, OF THE, THE ARCHITECT, THE STYLE, THE MATERIALS. IT FOCUSES MAYBE, UH, TWO SENTENCES ON THE STEPS OF WHICH IT SAYS THERE ARE A LOT OF STEPS AND THERE THERE ARE SOME BRICK PATHWAYS. UH, IT DOESN'T GO REALLY INTO A LOT OF THE STEPS AS BEING PART OF THE LANDMARK HISTORICAL, UH, ISSUE. SO I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT, UH, IN THAT, UH, RECORD, IT ALSO INCLUDES A DOCUMENT WHERE THE OAKLAWN CHURCH IN THE PAST HAS SAID, UH, WE'RE GONNA PAINT OURSELVES RED. AT SOME POINT WE SAW THERE WERE RED AND WE'RE GONNA PAINT THE RED AGAIN. AND I'M ASSUMING THE LANDMARK COMMISSION SAID YES AT THAT. I, IT WAS A NOTIFICATION TO SOMEONE IN DALLAS SAYING, WE'RE GONNA PAINT OURSELVES RED. SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT, UM, IT SHOULDN'T MATTER IF WE PAINT THEM GREEN, PURPLE, OR RAINBOW COLOR. THE STEPS HAVE BEEN PAINTED IN THE PAST. THEY WILL BE PAINTED IN THE FUTURE. UH, THEY ARE NOT, I WOULD CONSIDER PART OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BUILDING ITSELF. UH, THEY'RE JUST STEPS, BUT THE, UH, THE PAINT OF THEM SHOULD NOT MATTER. IF WE WANTED TO, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PAINT THEM RED AGAIN AND THEN A MONTH LATER PAINT THEM GREEN. AND THAT'S, THAT'S MY OPINION. AND THAT'S, UH, WHEN WE'RE GOING ABOUT THE PAINTING OF ANY NEW MATERIAL THROUGH ADDITIONS DETENTION, COMPLY WITH THE COLOR OF EXISTING MATERIALS THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN WAIVED, BASICALLY BY GRANTING THIS, THE ABILITY TO PAINT THEM RED. SO THAT'S MY OPINION. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING AND I HOPE YOU APPROVE THAT PETITION. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SIR. LD CARTER, WE DO NEED A STAFF MEMBER POSTED BY THE DOOR TOO. THEY'RE LINED UP. OKAY. UM, ANDREW DISON DO WELCOME SIR. SNAZZY JACKET . HI, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS ANDREW DE BENEDETTO. UH, WELL THEN IT'S YOUR HANDWRITING. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. OKAY. ADDRESS AND PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. UH, I HAVE RESIDED AT 64 60 DRIVE, AND I PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. UH, I'M SPEAKING TODAY TO URGE YOU TO GRANT THE EXEMPTION FOR THE OAK LAWN, UMC. UH, WHEN I MOVED TO DALLAS IN 2012, UH, I SPECIFICALLY CHOSE OAK LAWN BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS A SAFE SPACE FOR THE LGBTQ PLUS COMMUNITY. FOR DECADES, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE CHURCH ITSELF HAS BEEN A SANCTUARY WHERE WE COULD EXIST WITHOUT FEAR. UH, WE'RE HERE TODAY BECAUSE THAT SAFETY IS BEING CHALLENGED. GOVERNOR ABBOTT'S RECENT DIRECTIVE TO REMOVE OUR RAINBOW CROSSWALKS RELIES ON FALSE CLAIMS OF SAFETY TO ERASE SYMBOLS, A COMMUNITY HE DOESN'T SUPPORT. THIS BRINGS ME TO THE PURPOSE OF THIS COMMISSION TO PROTECT HISTORY. OFTEN WE THINK OF HISTORY AS BEING SOMETHING A HUNDRED YEARS AGO. UH, BY PAINTING THESE STEPS, EVEN WITH THE ORIGINAL TEMPORARY INTENT, THE OAK JUAN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH IS MAKING HISTORY. UH, IT'S A HISTORIC STATEMENT. THEY'RE STANDING UP TO, UH, WHEN THEY TRY, WHEN THE STATE TRIES TO ERASE US FROM THE STREETS, THE COMMUNITY WILL RISE UP ON THE STEPS. THIS ACT OF RESISTANCE IS SIGNIFICANT DALLAS HISTORY, AND IT'S THE SAME PROTECTION THAT THE BRICKS AND MORTAR THAT THE CHURCH SITS ON. PLEASE GRANT THIS EXEMPTION FOR AS LONG AS THE STATE WILL NOT ALLOW THE RAINBOW BROTH BOX. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND OUR NEXT UP IS, UH, PORTIA KENTRELL, MS. KENTRELL. OH, OKAY. SHE WAS IN THE STACK FOR PEOPLE IN HERE. UM, ALL RIGHT THEN. SHARON RODINE. THANK YOU. I'M SHARON RODINE. I LIVE AT 2011 CEDAR SPRINGS, DALLAS, TEXAS, AND I PROMISE TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH. OKAY, THANK YOU, . ALRIGHT. YOU'RE A GREAT CHAIR. YOU, THEY NEED TO, YOU KEEP HER RIGHT. SHE'S GOOD. I, I, I'M A RETIRED CHAIR, . IT'S WHEN MY HUSBAND AND I MOVED TO DALLAS IN 2010, WE JOINED OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORY, ITS ARCHITECTURE, ITS SIZE, AND ITS CONGREGATION, [00:25:01] WHICH REPRESENTED THE BEST OF WHAT A FAITH COMMUNITY SHOULD BE. AT THAT TIME, THE STEPS WERE PAINTED A REALLY BLOOD RED. UH, IT WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL COLOR. AND I TOLD THE PASTOR AT THE TIME, I ASSUMED IT WAS EITHER SELECTED BY A COMMITTEE OR WAS THE CHEAPEST PAINT AT THE LOCAL PAINT STORE. AND IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE. WE HEARD NOTHING FROM ANYONE ABOUT THOSE VERY, I'LL SAY GAUDY RED STEPS. THE STEPS HAD ALSO BEEN DETERIORATING FOR YEARS, AND IN 2013, THE TRUSTEES MADE PLANS TO REPAIR THEM FOR THE CHURCH'S HUNDRED AND 40TH ANNIVERSARY. SINCE OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH HAS BOTH, HAS ALSO, UH, TEXAS HISTORICAL MARKER AND IS ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER. I EMAILED THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION AND INDICATED WE WERE GOING TO BE REPAIRING AND REPAINTING. I SENT DOCUMENTATION, I SENT PHOTOS. THEY SAID, THANKS. IT'LL GO IN OUR FILE. THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW. THAT WAS IT. THERE WAS NO PROBLEM THERE. THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY. IT'S A CHURCH WITH A SPECIAL HISTORY AND ACTIVE, VITAL, RELEVANT MINISTRY TO ITS NEIGHBORHOOD AND ITS COMMUNITY. IT'S NOT JUST A SHRINE OF THE PAST, ALTHOUGH WE DO LOVE THE HISTORY. IT'S A CONGREGATION THAT IS PROUD OF AND HONORS ITS HISTORY, BUT ONE THAT CONTINUES TO ALSO ACTIVELY LIVE OUT ITS WESLEYAN HERITAGE OF DOING ALL THE GOOD YOU CAN FOR AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN, TILL FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER. JOHN WESLEY'S CENTRAL MESSAGE WAS, DO GOOD AND DO NO HARM. OAK LAWN DOES A WHOLE LOT OF GOOD IN THIS COMMUNITY. THE COLOR OF THE CHURCH STEPS DOES, DOES NO HARM. IT DOES NO HARM TO THE ARCHITECTURE OR THE HISTORICAL INTEGRITY OF THE CHURCH OR ITS STRUCTURE. THE PAINT IS NOT PERMANENT. IT'S BEEN CHANGED NUMEROUS TIMES. THE INTENT OF THE STEPS AT THIS POINT IN TIME IS TO AFFIRM THE VALUE AND WORTH OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS. IT'S NOT A POLITICAL MESSAGE, IT'S A MESSAGE OF LOVE TO THE COMMUNITY FROM THE HEART OF THE OAK LONG CONGREGATION. THANK YOU. AND WE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HOPE YOU'LL APPROVE THIS 12 MONTHS OF THOSE STEPS. THAT COLOR. BEAUTIFUL. THANK YOU, MA'AM. OKAY, SO NOW WE'RE GOING BACK TO PORSCHE CANTRELL. OKAY. SO OUR NEXT PERSON IS CHRISTOPHER HARRISON, AND WE'RE A LITTLE LESS CROWDED. A FEW PEOPLE COULD START COMING IN. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER HARRISON AT 44 10 CENTER BAR DRIVE, DALLAS, 7 5 2 2 7, DISTRICT SEVEN. AND I AM AN ELDER AT EAST DALLAS CHRISTIAN CHURCH DISTRICT TWO. AND I'VE OUGHT TO BE TRUTHFUL IN THESE COMMENTS. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR INFORMING ME OF WHY I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH. YEAH, GO AHEAD, SIR. I STAND IN SUPPORT OF AND IN SOLIDARITY WITH OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH'S RIGHT TO MAKE A TEMPORARY ART INSTALLATION THAT SERVES AS A PUBLIC MESSAGE OF CHRIST LOVE TO OUR COMMUNITY. RAINBOW STEPS SHOULDN'T BE CONTROVERSIAL, IT'S JUST PAINT ALL, IT DOESN'T PERMANENTLY CHANGE. THE UNDERLYING, UH, NEOGA ARCHITECTURE AND A BLACK AND WHITE PHOTO FROM TODAY WOULDN'T LOOK SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT FROM A BLACK AND WHITE PHOTO FROM WINDOWS. STEPS WERE BUILT A HUNDRED YEARS AGO. AND WHAT A BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE THIS INSTALLATION SENDS THAT BY CROSSING THESE RAINBOW STEPS, YOU CAN FIND SANCTUARY IN OUR SANCTUARY. IT SERVES AS A PUBLIC COUNTERPOINT TO THE ENDURING LIE THAT GOD HATES THE GATE. THESE STEPS ARE NOT JUST A DESIGN CHOICE, BUT THEY ARE A MINISTRY TO A DALLAS COMMUNITY THAT HAS OFTEN BEEN ATTACKED UNDER A CHRISTIAN BLACK. AND AS A CITY DALLAS HAS SPENT DECADES DISTANCING ITSELF ON THE MONIKER OF A CITY OF HATE. I WOULD LOATH TO SEE US UNDERMINE ALL THAT WORK OVER SOMETHING SO SYMBOL I URGE YOU TO REJECT THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION AND APPROVE THIS TEMPORARY ART INSTALLATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. NEXT UP IS AMANDA MCLAUGHLIN. AND I'M AMANDA MCLAUGHLIN, AND I RESIDE AT SEVEN 14 WHITE FIVE GARLAND, BUT I SPENT CONSIDERABLE TIME IN DOLLARS DOWN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO I APPRECIATE IT. OKAY. AND YOUR AFFIRMATION, OR SWEAR THAT YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH. I I I'LL BE TRUTHFUL. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES, . YES. I'LL BE TRUTH. OKAY. UM, THERE'S BEEN MUCH EFFORT IN THE LAST YEAR [00:30:01] TO RAISE MY EXISTENCE AND MY COMMUNITY'S EXISTENCE. A COMMUNITY'S BEEN CALLED PEDOPHILES HARRIS, WHICH ARE NOT TRUE. UM, OUR MEDICAL CARE, OUR DOCUMENTATION AND MUCH MORE HAS BEEN UNDER A PATH. UM, IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFICULT. IT'S BEEN A VERY PAINFUL YEAR. IT'S HARD SOMETIMES JUST TO GO FORWARD, TO GET UP IN THE MORNING. UM, AND SO WHEN I SAW THE STAIRS AT OAK LINE UNITED AT THE CHURCH, IT BROUGHT ME HOPE. IT BROUGHT ME COMFORT. I WAS HAPPY. IT BROUGHT JOY TO ME. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE DIFFICULTIES. IT HELPED, UM, HISTORY'S EVOLVING. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT STAGNANT. UM, THIS IS PART OF THIS. SO I, I HOPE THAT YOU ALLOW THE STAIRS TO STAY AND, UM, PLEASE DON'T TAKE AWAY OUR COMFORT AND, AND HOPE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU MA'AM. UH, GAIL GRACE. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M GAIL GRACE. MY ADDRESS IS 8 3 9 HEAD SPRINGS DRIVE, 7 5 2 0 8. UH, KESSLER, PART OF OAK OAKLAND. HOWEVER, I WAS A 20 PLUS YEAR RESIDENT OF, OF TOWN. UM, AND I APPRECIATE YOU, UM, ALLOWING US TO TALK ABOUT THE STAIRS OF THE, OF UPON UNITED METHODIST CHURCH. OKAY, MA'AM, I DO HAVE TO INTERRUPT AGAIN. TELL ME THE TRUTH. BUT YOU'RE GONNA TELL THE TRUTH, ? OH, YES, I WILL. YES. YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY SWEAR I'LL TELL THE TRUTH. . ALRIGHT. THANK YOU, . I, I SAID IT'S NOT MY IDEA, IT'S WHAT I HAVE TO DO. YES, I UNDERSTAND. UH, BUT FIRST I WANT TO THANK THE OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH FOR PROMOTING JOY, LOVE, AND ACCEPTANCE, WHILE PROVIDING SPIRITUAL AND COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP TO A NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. UH, WHEN I SEE THE STAIRS, I SEE LOVE, SUPPORT, INCLUSION AND KINDNESS. THEY BRING A SMILE TO MY FACE AND TO MY HEART. THESE ARE ACTIONS AND EMOTIONS, UH, THAT WE ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY OF TODAY. THEY REPRESENT A DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SEE BEING STRIPPED AWAY. THEY ARE ART WITH MEANING TO THIS COMMUNITY AND TO DALLAS. I DO LIVE IN A HISTORICAL DISTRICT. SO , I UNDERSTAND IT'S TECHNICALLY CONSERVATION DISTRICT, BUT YOU CAN'T PAINT YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT COMMISSION. UM, SO I, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE RULES AND THAT THERE ARE RULES THAT YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY. HOWEVER, AS OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NOTED, I DON'T SEE THE HARM. ALL I SEE IS THE GOOD THAT THESE STARES REPRESENT AND WHAT THEY MEAN 'CAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE QUESTIONING THEIR SUPPORT TODAY. UM, I APPRECIATE YOU ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK AND I HOPE THAT YOU GUYS WILL ALLOW THE STAIRS, THE RAINBOW STAIRS TO STAY IN PLACE EVEN TEMPORARILY AS AN ARTIST SOLUTION. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU MA'AM. ANTHONY BRIDGES, UM, MY NAME IS ANTHONY BRIDGES FROM DISTRICT NINE, AND I AFFIRM THAT I WILL TELL THE TRUTH AND YOUR ADDRESS, SIR. UM, I'M IN SUPPORT OF KEEPING THE RAINBOW STEPS AT THE METHODIST CHURCH. UM, IT'S PERPLEXING TO ME THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO REMOVE THEM. THE METHODIST CHURCH WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THEM PAINTED IF THEY DIDN'T WANT THEM. THE CEDAR SPRINGS COMMUNITY JOYOUSLY CELEBRATED THE ADDITION WHEN THE STEPS WERE FIRST UNVEILED. AND I WAS AMONG THOSE TAKING NUMEROUS PICTURES OF THIS CULTURAL MILESTONE. CEDAR SPRINGS IS A DECISIVELY UNIQUE AREA IN DALLAS, IN THAT UNIQUENESS HOLDS A LOT OF VALUE TO THOSE WHO FREQUENT THE AREA. IF YOU DON'T LIKE RAINBOW CROSSWALKS, THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY ON THE WRONG STREET. FORTUNATELY, THERE'S 20,000 OTHER STREETS YOU CAN WALK ON IN DALLAS WHERE YOU WON'T HAVE TO SEE VIBRANT COLORS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE RAINBOW STEPS ON YOUR CHURCH, THEN GO TO ONE OF THE 500 CHURCHES THAT DON'T HAVE THEM. WE HAVE ONE STREET THAT REPRESENTS THIS CULTURE, AND WE HAVE ONE CHURCH WITH RAINBOW STEPS. IF THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW. AND THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH THE LAW, IT IS VIOLATING OUR FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. AND AS SUCH, IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. THE CEDAR SPRINGS COMMUNITY ISN'T REMOTELY AGAINST THIS LANDMARK CHANGE, AND ANYBODY WHO WANTS IT REMOVED HAS NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN THAT CHURCH AND NEVER WILL. AND THAT'S FINE AS LONG AS THEY GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND STOP TRYING TO TAKE THINGS AWAY FROM A COMMUNITY THAT'S ALREADY MARGINALIZED. THE SENTIMENTAL VALUE OF THIS ART CAN'T BE UNDERSTATED AND REGULAR. EVERYDAY PEOPLE IN CEDAR SPRINGS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FINE PRINT IN THE CITY CODE. THEY JUST WANNA SEE ART THAT REFLECTS THEIR CULTURE AND THE SLIVER OF THE CITY WHERE THEY GET TO CELEBRATE IT. DO YOU REALLY WANT BUREAUCRACY TO TAKE THAT AWAY? THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS ALREADY MAKING THINGS HARD ENOUGH, AND I PROMISE THEY DON'T NEED YOUR HELP TO STRIP AWAY OUR CULTURE. ARLINGTON IS NOW THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS METROPLEX [00:35:01] BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PROTECT AND CELEBRATE DIVERSITY IN THEIR CITY. DON'T LET DALLAS SLIP DOWN THE SAME PATH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR GREAT PASSION COMES FROM THE POLITICAL REALITY OF TODAY. I DO WANNA TAKE THIS MOMENT TO, TO SAY SOMETHING. UM, I WAS ABSOLUTELY THRILLED WHEN I SAW THE PICTURE OF THE STEPS IN THE NEWSPAPER BECAUSE OF WHAT HAD BEEN GOING ON POLITICALLY AND PRIVATE. PEOPLE COULD PUSH BACK, BUT PUBLIC PEOPLE COULD NOT. UM, THIS QUESTION APPARENTLY BECAME SORT OF A SOCIAL MEDIA CAUSE OVER THE WEEKEND, I, I MISSED IT. SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY THEY CAN'T HAVE THEM. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO SAY, YOU HAVE TO COME BEFORE US AND ASK FOR THE CA THE ONLY THING I HEARD IN OUR BRIEFING THAT WAS NEGATIVE ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL WAS THAT YOU DID IT BEFORE YOU GOT THE CA WE PREFER YOU GET THE CA FIRST, BUT NOW THE REVEREND AND ALL OF THE OFFICIALS HAVE HEARD SPEAK TODAY KNOW THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY HEARD THAT. SO I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW THE VOTE IS GOING TO GO, BUT I HAVE NOT SO FAR SEEN ANY OPPOSITION TO THESE STEPS AMONG US. IT'S JUST WE HAVE TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT HARM THE HISTORIC BUILDING OR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND ONCE WE SAY THAT OFFICIALLY, THAT IS OUR OFFICIAL IMP PREMATURE ON THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE NOT BAD, THAT THEY WORK FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT KEEPS ANYBODY ELSE FROM COMING BACK AND SAYING, BUT YOU DID SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN THE ORDINANCE, THAT WAS VERY BAD. IT'S UP TO US TO SAY WE'RE THE EXPERTS IN THE END. NOT THAT I CLAIM WE'RE THAT SMART, JUST WE'RE THE APPOINTED EXPERTS. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION. OKAY, SIR, I'M SORRY IF THIS HAS CAUSED YOU ANY STRESS OR CONCERN OR ANYBODY ELSE, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS REALLY DOES NOT SEEM TO ME TO BE A PARTICULAR CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE, BUT ONE THAT WE MUST RULE ON ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THANK YOU. ALAN DUDLEY. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ALAN DUDLEY. I LIVE AT 1007 AVON STREET, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 1 1. AND I LIVE OUT THE TRUTH. THANK YOU, SIR. I DO NOT ATTEND OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH ON SUNDAY MORNINGS, BUT I DO SPEND SOME TIME EVERY AFTERNOON AT IN COMMUNITY AA MEETING. THOSE STEPS ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY LET ME KNOW THAT I WILL BE SAFE, I WILL BE WELCOME, AND I WILL BE TREATED WITH RESPECT IN THAT BUILDING. CHURCH IS NOT JUST A BUILDING, IT IS ALSO A LIVING ORGANISM. AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS CHURCH DESERVES TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY SERVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. NEXT IS DANIEL BAB. HELLO. THANK YOU. I'M DANIEL BAB. I LIVE AT 37 23 NORTHVIEW LANE, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 2 9. AND I SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH. THANK YOU, SIR. UH, I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT PRIORITIES. UH, I SEE SO MANY THINGS GOING ON IN THIS CITY THAT, UH, CEMENT IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP. AND, UH, AMONG THEM ARE THE, THE POTENTIAL TEAR DOWN OF THE HOTEL, ST. GERMAIN, UH, AND OF THIS BUILDING WE'RE SITTING IN RIGHT NOW. UM, THIS CHANGE IS HARMLESS. IT HARMS NO ONE. I THINK THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON THOSE ISSUES AND APPROVE THIS CHANGE. TODAY IS MY BIRTHDAY. I'M 61 TODAY, AND AS A GIFT, UH, I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR VOTE FOR THIS. OH, AND I GOT YOU A TIE. DAR , CINDY STEINER. WELL, I KNOW A POOP , FORMER LANDMARK COMMISSIONER, CINDY STEINER, MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I'M CINDY STEINER, 66 85 AVALON AVENUE IN DALLAS. UM, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I THOUGHT THE RULES PREVENTED ME FROM SPEAKING SINCE I HADN'T SIGNED UP. SO I DON'T HAVE PREPARED REMARKS. SO LET'S SEE HOW I'VE BEEN. BUT YOU ALSO HAVEN'T TOLD ME. YOU'LL TELL ME THE TRUTH, CINDY. AND HOW DO I KNOW TRUE? I'LL TELL THE TRUTH. UM, FIRST OF ALL, I DEEPLY APPRECIATE HOW HARD YOU WORK TO CREATE, MAINTAIN, REGULATE, AND ENFORCE OUR HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCE. IT'S WORK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU LAND IN WITH BATTLE SCARS, , AND IT'S HARD SOMETIMES, AND I APPRECIATE YOU. UH, BUT THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO SET A PRECEDENT. THIS IS NOT A PRECEDENT SETTING CASE. THIS IS NOT WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT CAS AND, AND TRYING TO DETERMINE WHETHER THIS IS THE RIGHT COLOR OR THIS IS THE WRONG COLOR. AND, AND WE THROUGH THE, THE, THE BRACE AREAS, THIS IS AN EXCEPTION AND STAFF HAS MADE THE RIGHT CALL. UM, THIS IS TEMPORARY ART ON A RELIGIOUS BUILDING. AND AFTER HAVING CONSULTED THIS MORNING A CHAT WITH A, A FORMER DALLAS CITY ATTORNEY AND ANOTHER ATTORNEY WHO IS IN CHARGE OF HALF OF THE OFFICE, INCLUDING HISTORIC PRESERVATION, [00:40:02] UH, WE AGREE THAT THIS IS, THIS IS RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION. AND I'M NOT GONNA BORE YOU WITH THE DETAILS OF WHAT A COURT WOULD DO WITH THIS. BUT, UM, A COURT WOULD STRUGGLE. AND I UNDERSTAND IF YOU HAVE SOME HESITATION. UM, THAT SAID, I CAN AFFIRM THAT THIS IS RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION. I VOLUNTEERED AT THIS CHURCH. NO ONE WALKS THE WALK BETTER THAN THIS CHURCH. AND THOSE STEPS ARE A TEMPORARY WAY OF EXPRESSING THEIR WELCOME TO EVERYONE. TRUST ME. THEY WELCOME AND SERVE EVERYONE. SO I URGE YOU TO FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, DR. HANSEN. DR. R HANSEN. I ASSUME IT WAS DOCTOR BUT , DR. OH, WELL, I PROMOTED YOU TO DOCTOR . I I'VE BEEN COLD WARS . OKAY. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS DR HANSEN. I RESIDE AT 1 0 2 2 5 DALE CREST, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 2 9. AND I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY? UM, I AM IN ONE OF THE OWNERS OF COMMON GROUND GAINS DALLAS'S PREMIER BOARD GAME STORE. I LIVE IN DALLAS AND I AM A PROUD QUEER MAN. THAT'S WHO I AM. LET'S TALK ABOUT WHO YOU ARE. YOU ARE THE DALLAS LANDMARK COMMISSION. YOU REPORT TO DALLAS CITY COUNCIL. AND THE DALLAS CITY COUNCIL WORKS FOR ME, DALLAS RESIDENT AND TAXPAYER. SO, IN ESSENCE, YOU ALL WORK FOR ME TOO. I WOULD LIKE, BY THE WAY, WE'RE VOLUNTEERS AND YOU HAVEN'T PAID US A THING , I, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE NEXT HEARING . UM, I WOULD LIKE THE RAINBOW STEPS AT THE UNITED, UH, U OAK LAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH TO REMAIN THE SAME. UM, AS YOUR BOSS, I EXPECT YOU TO FOLLOW MY LEAD AND APPROVE THE TEMPORARY ART INSTALLATION. AND SHOULD THE CHURCH WANT TO MAKE THAT PERMANENT, I EXPECT YOU TO HONOR THEIR AUTONOMY TO MAINTAIN THEIR BUILDING AND THE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF OAK LAWN AND OUR COMMUNITY. THESE STEPS FULFILL A VERY REAL SERVICE OF REMINDING US THAT L-G-B-T-Q CITIZENS DESERVE VISIBILITY AND REPRESENTATION. REMEMBER, YOU ARE ALL HERE TO PRESERVE DALLAS'S HISTORY AND DALLAS'S. QUEER HISTORY CONTINUES TO BE IGNORED OR WORSE ERASED. SO PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT AND ASK YOURSELVES, HOW CAN I BE OF SERVICE TO THIS UNDERREPRESENTED AND MARGINALIZED COMMUNITY? SINCE THIS IS AN OPEN BOOK TEST, I'LL GO AHEAD AND GIVE YOU THE ANSWER. , YOU CAN HELP PRESERVE, UH, THE HISTORY OF OAK LAWN DALLAS'S QUEER NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS OPERATED AS A SAFE SPACE TO ITS QUEER RESIDENTS FOR MANY, MANY DECADES BY LEAVING OUR RAINBOWS ALONE. UM, I HOPE YOU WILL DO THE RIGHT THING AND NOT LISTEN TO SOME SAD LITTLE MAN IN AUSTIN WHO'S AFRAID OF RAINBOWS. UH, I HOPE YOU'LL DO THE RIGHT THING AND LISTEN TO YOUR BOSS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. AGAIN, I WANNA RAISE, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME, , AND I WILL POINT OUT THAT THE PURPOSE OF A CA THAT HAS THE LIMITED DURATION OF 12 MONTHS IS BECAUSE IT'S AN ART INSTALLATION. OF COURSE, A LIMITED DURATION CA CAN BE REAPPLIED FOR AT THE PROPER TIME BY THE OWNERS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES IN A POSITION TO DO SO. I'M LOOKING AT YOU AGAIN, AT LEAST THE GLASSES ON YOUR HEAD. THAT'S ALL I CAN SEE. YEAH. YEAH, I WAS UP THERE. SHE'S LISTENING. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. JACOB RES. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS JACOB REYES AND I PROMISED TO TELL THE TRUTH. AND WHERE DO YOU LIVE, JACOB? NOT I'M COMING TO VISIT YOU. I JUST WANT TO KNOW . ALTHOUGH OAKLAND IS MY SECOND HOME. I LIVE AT 57 0 8 HUDSON STREET, DISTRICT 14. I'M A GAY LATINO MALE, BORN AND RAISED IN DALLAS, IN NORTH TEXAS. AND AS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF TEXAS LATINO PRIDE, AN ORGANIZATION ADVANCING OUR LATINO AND L-G-B-T-Q COMMUNITIES. HERE, I RECOGNIZE AND CELEBRATE THE EFFORTS OF OAKLAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH. IT IS OAKLAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH THAT SOLIDIFIED A SAFE SPACE FOR IMMIGRANTS AND THE L-G-B-T-Q COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY DURING THESE UNCERTAIN TIMES FOR BOTH THE LATINO AND L-G-B-T-Q PEOPLE HERE IN DALLAS. IF YOU RESIDE HERE, AND AS SOMEONE WHO QUESTIONS HIS FAITH REGULARLY, WHAT I KNOW FOR SURE IS THAT THIS WONDERFUL PLACE OF WORSHIP IS SO MUCH MORE. IT IS A SPACE FOR MY PEOPLE, MY PEOPLE, AND IT IS THROUGH THEIR EFFORTS, WHETHER IT BE A DISPLAY OF RAINBOW STEPS OR THE OFFICIATION OF A MARRIAGE BETWEEN MY FRIENDS LUIS QUINTANILLA AND DAVID GUTIERREZ AT THE OAKMAN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH HAS ENSURED THAT OUR PEOPLE, MY PEOPLE, MATTER. UH, AND I URGE YOU TO APPROVE THIS MEASURE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, UM, AMANDA DE LOS SANTOS , THE LETTERS WERE SWED TOGETHER. IT'S NOT MY FAULT. BILL SANTOS. I'M, I'M LEFT-HANDED [00:45:01] AND THE WRITINGS , BUT MY SON HAS THAT AFFLICTION AS WELL. IT'S HARD TO OVERCOME . WELL, I'M GLAD THAT YOU CAN READ IT FOR THAT REASON. WELL, I LIVE IN DISTRICT FOUR AT 1239 MICHIGAN AVENUE, AND I AFFIRM THAT I WILL BE TELLING THE TRUTH. OKAY. SO I STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY AS A MEMBER OF THE FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED, UH, PUEBLO, UM, TRIBE, AND ALSO A PERSON WHO ATTENDS THE OAKLAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH TO CALL UPON YOU TO UPHOLD OUR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, TO EXPRESS THE PAINTING ON THE CHURCH SETS IN MIND AND OTHER INDIGENOUS CULTURES. THE RAINBOW IS NOT JUST A POLITICAL EXPRESSION, BUT ONE ECHO THROUGHOUT OUR ANCIENT TEACHINGS AS A SYMBOL OF PROTECTION AND PROSPERITY JUST AS INTENDED WITH THE PAINTING AT , THIS HOLY SYMBOL IS SO DEEPLY ROOTED IN OUR BELIEF SYSTEM THAT THE RAINBOW APPEARS ON OUR SEAL OF THE PUEBLO ZUNI NATION HIGHLIGHTING OUR BELIEF TO SPIRITUAL PROTECTION. I EXPLAINED ALL OF THIS TO SAY THAT THIS HEARING IS MORE ABOUT, UH, IS ABOUT MORE THAN JUST PAINT. AT O-L-U-M-C, WE REGULARLY, REGULARLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE CHURCH IS ON INDIGENOUS LAND. DURING OUR WORSHIP SERVICE, WE HELD A CEREMONY, BLESSING THE STEPS ONCE THEY WERE FINISHED. SO I'M HERE TO EXPLAIN THAT THOSE ARE NOT JUST, NOT STEPS AT ALL, BUT A PATHWAY OF PROTECTION. BLESSED BY HOLY AUTHORITY LEADING OUR WAY TO THE SANCTUARY, THE RAINBOW STEPS ARE ANOINTED OR AN ANOINTED SPIRITUAL BEACON. AND TO REMOVE THEM WOULD BE SACRILEGIOUS IN MY FAITH. AS A PUEBLO WOMAN WHO WORSHIPS AT O-L-U-M-C, WE CAME HERE TO DISCUSS HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AND THERE IS NO LAW OR ORDINANCE MORE HISTORIC THAN THE RAINBOW SYMBOL OF PROTECTION IN MY PEOPLE. SO I ASK YOU TODAY TO ALLOW THE SPIRITUAL EXPRESSION UNDER OUR RIGHT OF CULTURAL RELIGIOUS RESTORATION UNDER THE TEXAS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACT BY VOTING TO APPROVE THE PAINT AT O-L-U-M-C. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. OKAY, AVA TEDFORD. UM, YES. FIRST MOVE THE MICROPHONE DOWN SO PEOPLE AT HOME WILL BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU AND SPEAK AS LOUDLY AS YOU CAN. SO JUST GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS AND TELL ME YOU'RE GONNA TELL THE TRUTH. UH, MY NAME IS AVA TEDFORD. I LIVE IN DOWNTOWN DALLAS, 7 5 2 1. AND I PROMISE TO, UH, SAY THE TRUTH. OKAY. I SHOW UP. I SHOW UP IN FAVOR OF KEEPING THE STAIRCASE PAINTED. THE MAJOR AMOUNT OF CENSOR CENSORSHIP HAS BECOMES REAL IN THIS PAST YEAR. AND I'M ONLY IN FEAR OF WHAT TO COME NEXT. I'M CURRENTLY 15 AND BEING QUEER IN THIS CLIMATE HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON MY DAY TO DAY-TO-DAY LIFE. I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHO I LOVE, HOW I REPRESENT MYSELF, OR WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO WITH MY LIFE. THE MORE WE HIDE THE SMALLEST EXPRESSIONS IN FAVOR, THE LGBTQ PLUS COMMUNITY WILL LEAD TO MORE CENSORSHIP AND MALICE TOWARDS AN ALREADY VULNERABLE COMMUNITY. WHY DOES THE EXISTENCE OF STAIRS PAINTED TO WELCOME ALL POST SUCH A THREAT ISN'T ISN'T THAT THE TEACHING OF JESUS? WHAT THE TEACHINGS JESUS ARE, IT PAINTS, IT PAINTS ME TO SEE A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE BLINDLY JUDGED A GROUP I'M IN WITHOUT A CHARACTER OF THE HARM THAT THAT JUDGMENT CAN CAUSE. HAVING THE PAINTED OF STAIRS GIVES ME COMFORT IN KNOWING THAT I, I HAVE COMMUNITY SUPPORT AND I'M IN A SAFE SPACE. I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND WHAT NOT HAVING A SAFE SPACE SAYS TO QUEER YOUTH. AS THE SUICIDE RATES HAVE BECOME MORE TURBULENT. THOSE AREAS, EVEN AS SIMPLE AS THEY ARE, MAKE PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO ARE SCARED FOR WHAT IS TO COME KNOW, THERE'S STILL A SAFE PLACE IN MY COMMUNITY. THANK YOU. ZACHARY JOHNSON. HI, MY NAME IS ZACHARY JOHNSON. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE EVER DONE ONE OF THESE. SO FORGIVE ME IF I'M A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, WORSE FOR WHERE, WHENEVER IT COMES TO, YOU KNOW, PROCEEDINGS AND ALL OF THAT. BUT, UH, WELL, FIRST QUESTION'S EASY. WHAT'S YOUR ADDRESS, ? SO I LIVE WITH MOMMY AND DADDY, SO, UH, DO I, DO I HAVE TO SHARE IT? I THINK IT'S A STATE LAW THAT AT PUBLIC MEETINGS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO. OKAY. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY YOU'RE GONNA TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY. YES, I AM GONNA TELL THE TRUTH, THAT'S FOR SURE. UH, YEAH. SO MY FAMILY, WE LIVE IN MCKINNEY. I DRIVE A LITTLE BIT OF WASTE COME OUT HERE, BUT A LOT OF GREAT ARGUMENTS HAVE BEEN PRESENTED TODAY A LOT THAT MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME THAT INCLUDING THAT OUR RAINBOW CROSSWALKS HAVE BEEN A SYMBOL OF OUR PRESERVATION AS A SOCIETY, AS A CULTURE. AND FORGIVE ME, OR FORGIVE ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S Y'ALL'S JOB OR PURPOSE TO UPHOLD AND PRESERVE THAT HISTORY THAT IS BEING PAVED OVER, LITERALLY, FIGURATIVELY, METAPHORICALLY, ALL THE LY WORDS YOU WANT TO USE. SO WITH THAT IN MIND, WE PAINTED OUR STEPS TO ENSURE THAT THAT HISTORY GETS PRESERVED. THE STEPS HAVE BEEN PAINTED RED BEFORE. WHY WAS THAT NOT AN ISSUE THEN? WHY IS IT AN ISSUE NOW? NOT SURE. THAT'S WHY THIS DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE. HOWEVER, KEEPING [00:50:01] THOSE STEPS AS A SYMBOL OF OUR HISTORICAL PRESERVATION DOES AND SEEING THAT IT DOES NOT IMPACT THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THOSE STEPS OR OUR BUILDING IN GENERAL. I SEE NO REAL REASON AS TO WHY THIS SHOULD BE SEEN AS A DANGER TO ANY SORT OF ARCHITECTURE OR REGULATORY, UH, BODY OF SORTS. I HONESTLY DON'T. AND THEN ON A PERSONAL AND EMOTIONAL NOTE, I HAVEN'T BEEN TO CHURCH, CHURCH IN 10 YEARS. IT WASN'T UNTIL I SAW THOSE STEPS, UNTIL I MET PEOPLE IN THAT CONGREGATION WHO TOLD ME AND SHARED SYMPATHY WITH ME. AND THAT WE NEVER KNEW A PLACE LIKE THAT EXISTED, EVER. NOBODY TELLS YOU ABOUT PLACES LIKE THAT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GROW UP IN THE BIBLE BELT BUCKLE BELT BUCKLE OF THE BIBLE BELT WITH, YOU KNOW, SUPER CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN BACKGROUND RAISED IN ALL THROUGHOUT THAT ENVIRONMENT. I SEPARATED FROM THE CHURCH DUE TO THE ISSUES THAT ARE STEMMING FROM THIS VERY ISSUE HERE TODAY. IT KEPT ME FROM THE CHURCH. HOWEVER, I SEE PLACES LIKE THIS AND I SAY I BELONG. AND THEN I FIND OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE, WHOA, I DO TOO. THAT'S CRAZY, RIGHT? THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL I GOTTA SAY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU THOMAS BAUMAN. YOU'RE SO CLOSE. BACHMAN . YEAH, I THOUGHT IT WAS A CHEAT . UM, SORRY, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M NOT, YEAH. UM, SO MY NAME'S THOMAS BACHMAN. I LIVE AT 16, UH, WELL 1631 SYL AVENUE, 7 5 2 0 8. AND I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY. UM, SO, UH, I AM THE SON OF, UH, PASTOR RACHEL GRIFFIN. ALLISON, UH, AND I AM 16 YEARS OLD AND I'VE GROWN UP IN THE ME, THE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH AND THE FUNDAMENTALS OF LOVE AS, UH, MY, UH, OR THE FUNDAMENTALS OF DO ALL THE GOOD. YOU CAN HAVE REVERBERATED THROUGHOUT MY LIFE. AND THEY REVERBERATE THROUGH MY ACTIONS AND MY ASPIRATIONS. SO I THINK I'M THE LAST SPEAKER AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KIND OF, UM, LEAVE THIS OFF ON A NOTE OF THE FUTURE. THAT WHEN CHILDREN AND WHEN PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE ABLE TO GROW UP KNOWING THIS LOVE AND SEEING SYMBOLS OF THIS LOVE, LIKE THESE STEPS THAT SORT OF IMPACT THAT SORT OF ATTITUDE AND THAT SORT OF LOVE REVERBERATES, THAT SORT OF LOVE CONTINUES. AND IT IS MY DEEPEST AND TRUEST HONOR TO CALL RACHEL GRIFFIN, ALICE, MY MOM, TO CALL HER TO KNOW THAT SHE IS THE PERSON WHO IS SPREADING THAT ATTITUDE OF LOVE, SPREADING THE POSITIVE FAITH, SPREADING WHAT JESUS TRULY BELIEVES, WHAT, HOW HE TRULY LOVES YOU AND EVERYBODY. AND EVEN AS LIKE I HAVE GONE THROUGH MANY DIFFERENT QUESTIONS OF FAITH, I I EVEN CALL MYSELF AGNOSTIC RIGHT NOW. I STILL REMEMBER THOSE FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS OF LOVE. AND I SEE THE GOOD THAT THOSE THINGS DO. I SEE THE GOOD THAT THOSE THINGS DO FOR OUR CONGREGANTS. AND I SEE THE GOOD THINGS THAT THOSE DO FOR THE PEOPLE I LOVE. AND I HOPE TO SEE THAT THROUGHOUT MY LIFE, UM, AS I SERVE THROUGH THE, SO FOR THOSE REASONS. UM, YEAH, I APPROVED THE, UH, SORRY. AFFIRM THE MOTION. UH, ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. AND THAT WAS A WONDERFUL TESTIMONY TO YOUR MOTHER AS A LOVING AND UNDERSTANDING MOTHER. IF MY MOTHER WOULD ALIVE, WERE ALIVE, I'D HAVE YOUR MOTHER CALL MY MOTHER. 'CAUSE I'M 62 AND SHE STILL WOULDN'T APPROVE IF I DISAGREE WITH HER. AREN'T ANY THANKS, . OKAY, LAST CALL. LD CARTER OR PORSCHE KENTRELL. OKAY. YOU CAN COME FORWARD AND SPEAK, BUT YOU DO HAVE TO FILL OUT A YELLOW FORM. THE CITY JUST DOES THAT. NO. AFTER YOU TALK, JUST COME. WE DON'T WANNA WAIT WHILE YOU WRITE. THAT'S ON. WE'VE ALREADY WAITED FOR A LOT TODAY, . UM, ALL RIGHT. HI Y'ALL. UM, MY NAME IS ALEX SCOTT, UH, 64 72 TRAMMELL DRIVE, AND I'M YOUR NEIGHBOR IN DISTRICT NINE. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOUR CREATOR SPEAKS TO YOU. OH, I'M SORRY. BUT WE HAVE TO ASK YOU TO TELL THE TRUTH. OH, YES. I, I TELL THE TRUTH. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RELIGION, PRESUMABLY YOU'RE GONNA TALK YES, . UM, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOUR CREATOR TALKS TO YOU, BUT, UM, MY GOD, HE WINKS AT ME. IT GIVES ME OPPORTUNITIES TO SHOW UP IN SPACES THAT I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN AND BE RADICALLY AVAILABLE. UM, I DON'T ATTEND THIS CHURCH. UM, I'VE NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN ITS DOORS. AND I WAS RANDOMLY ON FACEBOOK, UH, ON SUNDAY AND CAME ACROSS THIS AND SIGNED UP AT I THINK, LIKE FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. UM, AND I WANNA KIND OF JUST SHARE A LITTLE BIT OF WITNESS OF HOW IMPORTANT, EVEN JUST [00:55:01] THE GLIMPSE OF ACCEPTANCE AND THE ABILITY TO TAKE SPACES THAT THROUGHOUT HISTORY WERE CREATED TO DIVIDE RELIGIOUS ELITE FROM THOSE WHO WERE DEEMED NOT WORTHY. AND HOW NOT ONLY IS THE PAINTING OF THESE STAIRS, UM, PRESERVING THE HISTORY OF OAKLAWN UNITED METHODIST CHURCH, IT'S PAVING THE WAY FOR WHAT IS TO COME IN THE FUTURE. UM, BECAUSE, UM, I GREW UP IN THE CHURCH. UM, I WENT TO A SUMMER CAMP FOR 15 YEARS. UM, AND ONE DAY I ALLOWED, UH, SOMEONE TO TELL ME THAT BECAUSE OF WHO I LOVED. UM, MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY CREATOR WAS NOT ANYMORE. UM, AND FOR 10 YEARS I WAS RADICALLY UNAVAILABLE. UM, AND I FELL INTO ADDICTION. I FELL INTO SO MANY WAYS THAT I LOST MYSELF. AND ONE DAY, UM, I STUMBLED UPON A UNITED METHODIST CHURCH IN, UH, ROSS AVENUE. AND, UM, I HAD THE HONOR AND THE PRIVILEGE OF, UH, JOHN BRYANT BEING MY, UH, RELIGIOUS, UH, GUIDE AND TELLING ME THAT THERE IS A SPACE FOR YOU, THERE IS ACCEPTANCE FOR YOU. AND SO THESE STARES NOT ONLY REPRESENT EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE WITH THIS CHURCH, IT REPRESENTS EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT SEES THIS ON FACEBOOK THAT HEARD ABOUT WHAT THIS GROUP DID THAT WILL HEAR ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF THE PRESERVATION OF THESE STEPS FOR THE NEXT YEAR. AND IT WILL BRING MORE PEOPLE TO THAT PLACE AND IT'LL BRING MORE PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THAT THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO BE, TO STEP ON THOSE STEPS, TO WALK IN THOSE DOORS AND OPPORTUNITY TO EXPERIENCE SOMETHING THAT, UM, IS INCREDIBLE. UM, AND SO THAT'S ALL I GOT FOR Y'ALL AND I APPRECIATE IT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU MA'AM. ALL RIGHT. I BELIEVE WE HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENTARY. WE USUALLY MIGHT HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR SOME OF OUR SPEAKERS. I DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS LEFT, BUT OH YEAH. ACTUALLY THOUGHT THEY ALL HARD. WHY DO I FOLLOW UP ON THAT? SOMEBODY ELSE? ME, DO EVERYTHING JOB. I, I DUNNO. I DON'T, YOU YES, SIR. I, IT DIDN'T MEAN YOU HAD TO, IT JUST, YOU CAN'T GET UP THERE UNLESS YOU DID. OKAY. OKAY. COME FORWARD THEN. MAYBE WE STILL HAVE YOU. I DON'T KNOW. UH, MY NAME IS MICHAEL BLASKE. I LIVE AT 1122 COLFAX CIRCLE IN RICHARDSON, AND I WILL BE TELLING YOU THE TRUTH. OKAY. UM, ONE OF THE REASONS I DECIDED NOT TO SPEAK WAS BECAUSE I REALLY HAD THIS GUT FEEL THAT I DON'T BELONG HERE AT THIS MEETING. UH, I AM A CIS HEAD, 73-YEAR-OLD MALE. HOWEVER, I HAVE BEEN GETTING SOME FRIENDSHIPS GOING DOWN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I ONLY KNOW TWO PEOPLE DOWN THERE BY NAME, SO I'M DEFINITELY NOT IN THE COMMUNITY. BUT I HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO CAME OUT TO ME AS GAY ABOUT 13 YEARS AGO, AND THEN AS BI AND IS NOW VERY HAPPILY MARRIED TO A GREAT GUY, STILL BISEXUAL. I HAVE A STRAIGHT SON AND I HAVE ANOTHER SON WHO IS JUST ABOUT COMPLETED HIS TRANSITION. SO LISTENING TO ALL OF THE, SPEAKING ABOUT THE CHURCH, AND I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN EITHER, SO I DON'T ATTEND THE CHURCH, I SUDDENLY REALIZED THAT I HAD A CONNECTION TO THIS PLACE THAT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT UNTIL THIS WHOLE CONTROVERSY CAME UP A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER MY DAUGHTER CAME OUT TO ME, WHICH WAS ABOUT HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO STOP BEING YOUR TYPICAL STEREOTYPICAL WHITE FATHER, FINDING OUT HIS DAUGHTER IS GAY. I WENT TO MY FIRST PRIDE PARADE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WHEN I WENT DOWN TO ONE OF THE SHOWS AT THE ROSE ROOM. I WAS WALKING UP THE STREET AND I SAW THE CHURCH AND I SAID TO MYSELF, THERE'S A CONNECTION HERE FOR SOME REASON. AND I REALIZED THAT AT THAT FIRST PARADE, YOU EXPECT THAT I AND MY DAUGHTER STOOD ON TO WATCH THE PARADE GO BY. SO THE ONLY POINT I REALLY WANNA MAKE, AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND YOUR ABILITIES, AND IT'S REALLY JUST, DO WE LET THIS CONTINUE AND TAKE IT UP AGAIN IN [01:00:01] 12 MONTHS OR NOT? THERE'S A HECK OF A LOT MORE PEOPLE, I'M SURE, WHO ARE NOT PART OF THE LGBTQIA PLUS COMMUNITY WHO LOOK AT THAT CHURCH AND SEE THE MEANING IN WHAT THEY ARE DOING. AND I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO GO DOWN THERE TO VISIT MY FRIENDS AND SEE THAT EVERY TIME I GO THERE. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO COMMISSIONERS, WE USUALLY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR SPEAKERS AT THIS POINT. I SUSPECT THE SPEAKERS HAVE SAID EVERYTHING THEY COULD POSSIBLY SAY. SO, UM, IF, IF IT'S ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED, LET'S, LET'S NOT CONTINUE TO ASK QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE ALREADY HAD ANSWERS. BUT ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? MR. ROTHBERG? I'D JUST LIKE TO ASK ONE QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT AND WE'RE GOING TO ASSUME THAT IS THE REVEREND YES. YES. WE TOLD HER SHE HAD WORK TO DO BECAUSE SHE IS A, SHE PROBABLY GETS PAID FOR THIS, SO SHE SHOULD, IT'S, IT'S AN EASY QUESTION. I, I THINK I I JUST WANNA ASK, UM, LET'S SAY ONE YEAR COMES UP, DO YOU? YES, IT IS. YES IT IS. DO YOU EXPECT TO ASK FOR THIS AGAIN? I MEAN, REALISTICALLY, I, I JUST WANT TO KNOW, BECAUSE TO GO BACK THROUGH THIS SAME PROCESS AGAIN IN A YEAR SEEMS KIND OF ODD IF WE FEEL THAT THE RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION MAY COME BACK AND ASK FOR THIS AGAIN. AND I, I JUST WANTED TO HEAR, UH, ABOUT THE TIMELINE AND J JUST WANNA KNOW WHERE YOU STOOD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION. AND YES, I DO EXPECT WE'LL COME BACK ASKING FOR IT AGAIN. SO IF THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER IT AS A PERMANENT ART INSTALLATION, UM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE AS WELL. UM, YES, THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTION I COMM THANK COMMISSIONER PREZI HAS A QUESTION. YES. AND, UH, I GUESS THIS IS GONNA BE FOR THE . I, THERE WAS, I DON'T REMEMBER. WAS YOU OR SOMEBODY ELSE THAT MENTIONED THAT THE STEPS WERE REPAIRED IN 2013? WERE THEY ACTUALLY REPAIRED OR WERE THEY REBUILT? I'M JUST TRYING TO GAUGE LIKE WHAT AMOUNT OF HISTORIC MATERIAL IS ACTUALLY THERE IN THAT RESTORATION. THE STEPS WERE, UH, IT WAS A TEMPORARY PATCH ON PART OF THE STEPS IN 2013, BUT, UH, AS SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER THIS MORNING, THEY'VE BEEN THERE A HUNDRED YEARS. YOU CAN'T IMAGINE THAT. NO, IT'S NOT THE SAME STRUCTURE WE HAVE THROUGH THE YEARS, UH, REPAIRED THEM, UH, MANY OF THOSE REPAIRS TOOK PLACE PROBABLY PRIOR TO THERE WAS EVEN A LANDMARK COMMISSION TO GO ASK PERMISSION TO. THAT'S, THAT'S HOW OLD THE CHURCH IS, BUT IN 2013, THOSE WERE TEMPORARY REPAIRS. AND THEN IN 20 16, 17, WE DID EXTENSIVE, UH, I MEAN LIKE $1.2 MILLION WORTH OF EXTERIOR WORK ALONE ON THE BRICKS, ON THE TILE, ON THE STAIRS, ALL EXTERIOR, UH, WITH THE LANDSCAPE, UH, WITH CONTRACTOR. SO AT THAT TIME THEN THE STEPS WERE PAINTED. WHAT COLOR WERE THEY? THEY WERE PAINTED AGAIN, UH, THE COLOR THAT THEY HAD BEEN, WHICH WAS AT THAT POINT RED. A VERY BRIGHT RED IN 2013. IN 2013. AND THEN WHAT ABOUT 2016 TO 2017? THAT'S WHEN THE, THEY WERE SWITCHED TO THE GRAY AND THAT WAS DONE. UH, I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE, WELL, WE DIDN'T GET APPROVAL. WE DID NOT GET APPROVAL. WE JUST PAINTED OUR STEPS AND NO ONE SAID ANYTHING. JUST LIKE WE PAINTED THEM RED AT ONE POINT AND NO ONE SAID ANYTHING. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THIS IS COMMISSIONER NOOSA. I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I'D LIKE TO MAKE A STATEMENT. OKAY. I'M GOING TO BE IN SUPPORT OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS TO APPROVE THIS CA AND MY SUPPORT IS BASED ON SIX QUICK POINTS. FIRST OF ALL, UH, AS MANY OF THE SPEAKERS HAVE SAID, THE STEPS HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY PAINTED WITH NO, UH, NO ARGUMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. NUMBER TWO, THE CURRENT PAINTING HAS NO ADVERSE MATERIAL EFFECT IS REVERSIBLE, AND FOR NOW IS TEMPORARY. NUMBER THREE, THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS TO THE PROPOSED WORK ABIDE BY THE CITY CODE STANDARDS AND C AND SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR GUIDELINES. NUMBER FOUR, THE INSTALLATION DOESN'T THREATEN PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY. NUMBER FIVE IN SECTION 51, A DASH 7.102, NUMBER FIVE, ADDITIONALLY POINTS OUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF PARTICULAR AREAS OR DISTRICTS WITHIN THE CITY, HELPING THE OBSERVER TO UNDERSTAND THE CITY AND ORIENT HIMSELF WITH IT. THE WORLD CUP IS COMING IN JULY. WE SHOULD SHOW OUR VISITORS THE TRUE DIVERSE, HISTORIC CHARACTER OF OUR CITY. THERE IS NOTHING MORE BORING TO TOURIST AND INHABITANTS OF A CITY THAN A PLAIN JANE STERILE CITY. AND NUMBER, UH, THE LAST POINT, [01:05:01] THE INSTALLATION DOES NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT THE SOUND SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE CHARACTER OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD IS SUCH THAT THEY TAKE PRIDE IN THE INSTALLATION. AND, UM, JUST VERY NOT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE PRIDE THAT LATINOS AND IN THE HISTORICAL OAK CLIFF DISTRICTS TOOK IN THE MURAL THAT WE APPROVED, UH, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. THE HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE IS BEAUTIFUL AND SHOULD BE PRESERVED, BUT WE SHOULD ALSO ALLOW AND CELEBRATE THE CITY'S HUMAN CHARACTER. ITS COMMUNITY IDENTITY AND HISTORY, NOT WITHSTANDING THE TEMPORARY POLITICAL CL CLIMATE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA, THOUGH I WILL POINT OUT, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A MOTION BEFORE WE MAKE OUR COMMENTS. I A MOTION. WELL, I'M ABOUT TO HAVE A MOTION. SO YOU JUST JUMPED IN FRONT OF ONE PERSON, MADAM CHAIR, IN REGARD TO ITEM D 1 3 0 1 4 OH CLAW AVENUE REMOVED THAT THE LANDMARK COMMISSION APPROVE THE REQUEST PER STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT THE PAINTED ART BE PERMITTED TO REMAIN FOR THREE YEARS. THE REASON FOR THE TRIENNIAL REVIEW IS TO EVALUATE THE ONGOING NEED AND CONDITION WITH THE CHURCH. UH, THE FINDING OF FACT BEING REGARDING THE PAINTING OF THE STEPS. THE COMMISSION FINDS THAT THIS IS AN ART INSTALLATION, UH, AND THE COMMISSION'S REVIEW OF SUCH AN INSTALLATION IS MORE CONCERNED WITH THE PLACEMENT AND ANY DAMAGE TO DISTORT MATERIALS AND CHARACTER. THE INSTALLATION IS BEING PLACED ON CONCRETE STEPS ALREADY PAINTED IN VARIOUS COLORS THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. THE NEW PAINT DOES NOT APPEAR TO HARM THE HISTORIC MATERIALS OF THE BUILDING. AND IN REGARDS TO CHARACTER, THERE'S A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION FOR RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION'S FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN THE CONTEXT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN WHICH IT . SECOND, I BELIEVE THAT COMMISSIONER REEVES WAS THE FIRST TO SECOND THAT MOTION. EXCELLENT MOTION. YOU'RE SO GOOD AT MAKING, YOU KNOW, LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE, WELL WORDED MOTIONS. NOT ALL GOOD. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? THE ATTORNEY MUST LOOK SOMETHING UP. ANY DISCUSSION WHILE THE ATTORNEY LOOKS SOMETHING UP? OKAY. MY DISCUSSION, I THINK THEY'RE REALLY PRETTY. THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR DETERMINATION OF ANYTHING. YOU CAN BUILD THE UGLIEST BUILDING ON EARTH IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT SO LONG AS IT FITS. BUT , I THINK THEY'RE PRETTY AND YOU DID A GOOD JOB PAINTING STEPS. IT'S HARD TO PAINT CONCRETE, BUT IT CAME OUT PRETTY WELL. MAKE A STATEMENT. OH, GOOD. MAKE A STATEMENT. I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER STATEMENT. WELL, NICE AND SHORT, I'LL BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS, THIS MOTION, THIS WELL SAID MOTION AND I'M SO THANKFUL THAT THERE, THERE WAS A THREE YEAR ADDITIONAL OR PUT IT TO A THREE YEAR. THANK YOU FOR THAT. SO I'LL BE VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THIS MOTION AND APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S SUPPORT AND, UH, IN COMING HERE TODAY. ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY. IS OUR CITY ATTORNEY NOW GOING TO MAKE STATEMENT? NO. . ALL IS WELL. WHEN AN ATTORNEY SAYS ALL AS WELL, THAT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD. ALL RIGHT. IF THERE ARE NO MORE COMMENTS FROM COUNT COMMISSION MEMBERS, I'LL CALL FOR THE VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THE MOTION IS CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. STAFF WILL WORK WITH OUR APPLICANT ON THEIR PAPERWORK, AS IS WHAT I ALWAYS TELL STAFF TO GO DO WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH THIS. AND THANK Y'ALL FOR COMING AND BEING AN AMAZING ARRAY OF ELOQUENT SPEAKERS. OKAY. WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED ONE THING, MY, BUT WE ARE NOT EFFICIENT, ARE WE? YES. UM, OKAY. I WOULD ASK THE SPEAKERS TO PLEASE MOVE ON OUT 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO CARRY OUT OTHER BUSINESS. SO, ALRIGHT. IS THERE ANY OPPOSITION FROM YOU? IF YOU COULD GO BATHROOM BREAK FIRST BECAUSE I ALSO HAVE TO MAKE A PHONE CALL AT THREE O'CLOCK, SO THEREABOUTS. SO, ALRIGHT, SO WE ARE GOING TO RECESS SEVEN MINUTES AND COME BACK AT THREE O'CLOCK. OKAY. [01:17:50] , [01:19:41] I DIDN'T KNOW WHO [01:20:15] WELL, IT ALL RIGHT, TIME FOR US TO START BACK UP BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO HEAR A REPORT ON THE, UH, WELL, WE REQUESTED THAT THERE BE A SURVEY AND OF HOW, HOW DALLAS CAN BENEFIT ECONOMICALLY FROM HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AND NOW MR. DONOVAN RUMA, WHO IS THE FOREMOST LEADER OF THAT, UM, TYPE OF UNDERSTANDING, IS HERE TO TELL US WHAT THEY DISCOVERED ABOUT DALLAS. AND HE GOT JUST NOW TO LISTEN THROUGH A TWO HOURS, SOMETHING RELEVANT AND NEW IN OUR CURRENT HISTORIC . OH, THERE YOU ARE. OKAY, GO , WHERE ARE YOU? GO ON. AND WE ALREADY CHECKED IT TO MAKE SURE YOUR PODIUM WILL WORK AND EVERYTHING. UH, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH AND APPRECIATE BEING HERE. I JUST ASSUMED THAT, UH, THAT OVERFLOW CROWD AND ALL THOSE TELEVISION CAMERAS WAS HERE TO HEAR ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACTS OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION, BUT I I WAS OBVIOUSLY MISTAKEN ABOUT THAT. UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH BOTH FOR, FOR THE TIME HERE TODAY AND ALSO FOR GIVING US THIS OPPORTUNITY. WE'VE WORKED OVER THE LAST YEAR ABOUT, UH, PREPARING THIS STUDY AND SPECIAL THANK YOU TO THE PRESERVATION STAFF, THE CITY STAFF AND THE, AND THE COMMISSION, AND ALSO THE ADVISORY BOARD THAT MARCUS PUT TOGETHER TO, UH, TO HELP US SEE THIS THROUGH US. ALL. VERY HELPFUL. UM, SO I, I JUST, I WANT TO BRIEFLY GO THROUGH WHAT THE KIND OF HIGHLIGHTS OF THE STUDY, BUT THE ENTIRE STUDY, 72 PAGES OF IT, UH, THAT'S REALLY PACKED FULL OF STUFF, UH, IS AVAILABLE AND YOU, YOU ENCOURAGE YOU TO LOOK AT ALL OF IT. OUR OUR ASSIGNMENT WAS REALLY A NUMBER OF LEVELS OF METRICS. ONE, WE JUST CALL THE BASICS, LOOKING AT HOW HOW MUCH LAND IS UNDER THE PURVIEW OF, OF YOU AND OF THE, OF THE CONSERVATION, UH, DISTRICTS WE LOOKED AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND, AND CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. WE LOOKED AT THE ROLE OF OLDER HOUSING AND AFFORDABILITY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT PROPERTY THAT OLDER HOUSING WAS OR EVEN APPROPRIATELY WOULD'VE BEEN DESIGNATED HISTORIC. WE JUST IGNORED THAT. AND WE LOOKED AT HOUSING BUILT PRIOR TO 1970. UH, WE LOOKED AT THE IMPACT OF LOCAL DESIGNATION ON PROPERTY VALUES, THE ATTRACTIVENESS OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS TO BUSINESSES AND JOBS, UH, THE, THE IMPACTS, JOBS AND, AND, UH, LABOR IMPACTS OF HISTORIC REHABILITATION, HERITAGE TOURISM AND, UH, PRESERVATION IN THE, IN THE ECONOMY AND THE ENVIRONMENT IS ALWAYS A PRETTY LARGE, UH, SCOPE OF SERVICES THAT WE LOOKED AT. UH, AND HERE IS KIND OF THE STARTING POINT IN THE, IN THE BASICS IS THE, IS THE, THE AREAS THAT WE LOOKED AT. AND OUR GENERAL PATTERN IS TO LOOK AT WHAT IS TRUE IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND HOW DOES THAT DIFFER FROM THE CITY AS A WHOLE. SO A NUMBER OF THE THINGS YOU'LL, YOU'LL HEAR ME MENTION ARE HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE THIS AND THE REST OF THE CITY IS THAT, UM, SO HISTORIC DISTRICTS, THERE ARE ABOUT A HALF OF 1% OF THE LAND AREA AND ABOUT 1% OF THE POPULATION OF DALLAS, THE CONSERVATION DISTRICTS ARE JUST SHORT OF 1% OF THE LAND AREA AND ABOUT ONE AND A HALF PERCENT OF THE, OF THE POPULATION. WHILE OUR, OUR ASSIGNMENT WAS REALLY TO LOOK AT HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO MUCH OF THIS WAS KIND OF OVERFLOW TO CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. WE LOOKED IN MANY CASES AT BOTH OF THEM. OH, DALLAS, LIKE VIRTUALLY EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD IS CONCERNED ABOUT, ABOUT DENSITY. UH, AND, AND FOR GOOD REASON IS THAT DENSITY IS WHAT MAKES THE EFFECTIVE EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC FUNDS. UH, YOU KNOW, THE INFRASTRUCTURE WORKS BETTER, THE MILES THAT COPS HAVE TO DRIVE IS BETTER. DENSITY IS AN IMPORTANT THING FOR US. YOU LOOK AT 0.1, [01:25:01] BUT 0.2, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, OFTEN HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE BEING CRITICIZED, SAYING, YOU, YOU STUPID HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT ARE KEEPING US FROM BEING DENSE. AND SO WE GOT A WEAKEN INTERCHANGE THOSE, WELL, OUR RESPONSE IS KIND OF TWOFOLD. FIRST, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S CONSUMING A HALF OF 1% OF THE, OF THE LAND AREA, IT'S HARDLY, YOU KNOW, A BIG BARRIER TO DENSIFICATION OTHER PLACES. BUT, BUT MORE THAN THAT, FRANKLY, IS THE DENSITY THAT IS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THAT HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN DALLAS HAVE AN AVERAGE OF 2000 MORE PEOPLE PER SQUARE MILE THAN DOES THE CITY AS A WHOLE. AND WHEN I SAY CITY AS A WHOLE, I MEAN THE OTHER RESIDENTIALLY ZONED AREAS IN THE CITY, IT'D BE UNFAIR TO COMPARE WITH, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRIAL PARKS OR WHATEVER. SO WE LOOKED AT RESIDENTIALLY ZONED, UH, AREAS SO THAT LOTS MORE PEOPLE, AND IT'S IMPORTANTLY, IT IS DENSITY AT A HUMAN SCALE. AND SO WE'RE GETTING DENSITY FROM THESE HISTORIC DISTRICTS. IT'S ALSO TRUE NOT JUST IN POPULATION, BUT IN HOUSING UNITS. THERE'S ABOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, 1800 MORE HOUSING UNITS PER, UH, SQUARE MILE IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAN IN THE REST OF THE CITY. UM, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT, THAT, THAT DENSITY IS THIS DIVERSITY OF HOUSING TYPES, UH, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, UH, WHERE IN, UM, IN, UH, UH, UH, MUCH OF DALLAS, THE CONCENTRATING CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, ALMOST 90% OF, OF ALL EVERYTHING THERE IS, UH, SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING, ABOUT 40% IN THE CITY AS A WHOLE. 35% IS SINGLE FAMILY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. BUT OVER HALF, IN FACT, OF THE HOUSING UNITS, UH, IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS IS MULTIFAMILY. THOSE TEND TO BE KIND OF MODESTLY SIZED MILES. SO THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, 40 STORY CONDOS. THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, DUPLEXES, QUADPLEXES AND, AND SMALL SCALE APARTMENTS. UM, AND THERE'S ALSO A GREAT IN THE, UH, THE DALLAS IS OF DIVERSE CITY RACIALLY. UH, AND WHILE ON ANY GIVEN HISTORIC DISTRICT, THERE'S A SKEW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER IN TERMS OF WHO THE POPULATION IS. IN FACT, IN THE AGGREGATE, IT, THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE REALLY A MIRROR, A REFLECTION OF WHO LIVES IN THE CITY AS A WHOLE. SO YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE, UH, HISTORIC, SOME HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT ARE PREDOMINANTLY BLACK, SOME THAT ARE PREDOMINANTLY WHITE, BUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM THAT IN FACT ARE, ARE A KIND OF GOOD MIXTURE OF A, A MIRROR OF THE CITY AS A WHOLE. UH, AND THAT'S ALSO TRUE IN TERMS OF, OF INCOME LEVELS. NOW, THERE'S A SLIGHTLY, UH, SMALLER, AT THE LOWEST END OF THE ECONOMIC SCALE, THERE'S A SLIGHTLY SMALLER SHARE IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAN THE REST OF DALLAS. THERE'S A SLIGHTLY GREATER SHARE OF, OF THE UPPER END, UPPER END OF THE INCOME. BUT AGAIN, THIS RED ACROSS THE INCOME LEVELS IS THAT EVERY INCOME LEVEL IN DALLAS IN FACT IS, IS, UH, AMPLY, UH, REPRESENTED IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AGAIN, WE OFTEN VIEW OUR ROLE AS MYTH BREAKERS, AND ONE OF THE MYTH BREAKERS AS WELL, HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE FINE, BUT THAT'S ONLY FOR RICH WHITE PEOPLE. WELL, CLEARLY IN DALLAS THAT'S NOT THE CASE THAT ALL, ALL OF DALLAS IS REPRESENTED IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE HISTORIC DISTRICTS. UH, AND THE OTHER, UH, INTERESTING THING THAT WE FOUND, WE FOUND LOTS OF INTERESTING THINGS, AND, UH, BUT THIS IS ONE OF THEM, IS THAT BECAUSE OF THIS HOUSING TYPOLOGY DIVERSITY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, THAT IN FACT THE MAJORITY OF RESIDENTS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE RENTERS, UH, THAT MORE THAN EITHER THE CITY AS A WHOLE OR IN CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. UH, AND AS A CONSEQUENCE, THOSE HISTORIC AND THE NATURE OF THOSE OLDER APARTMENT UNITS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS MEANS IN FACT, THE MEDIAN RENT IS LOWER, UH, IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAN EITHER THE REST OF THE CITY OR IN CONSERVATION DISTRICTS OR RENTERS. NOW, AGAIN, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE CHARGES OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN MANY PLACES SAYING, WELL, BUT, BUT THAT MY HOUSE IS MY FAMILY'S PRIMARY ASSET, AND THOSE HISTORIC DISTRICTS MEANS MORE REGULATION. I GOTTA COME TO SOME COMMISSION THAT I WANNA CHANGE THE PAINT COLOR ON SOMETHING, UH, AND THAT PRIMA FASCIA IS GONNA HURT PROPERTY VALUES. WELL, THAT'S DEMONSTRABLY, UH, NOT TRUE THAT THE, THE, UH, THE BIGGEST CHANGE, VALUE CHANGE PER SQUARE FOOT OVER THE LAST, UH, 15 YEARS HAS BEEN IN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, MOSTLY WHAT, YOU KNOW, THEM, THEY'RE, LOTS OF THEM ARE REALLY UPPER END, REALLY WONDERFUL HOUSING. UH, BUT THE PATTERN OF VALUE CHANGE IN HISTORIC DISTRICT IS VIRTUALLY THE SAME AS IT IS IN THE REST OF THE CITY WITH THE VALUES OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS BEING SLIGHTLY GREATER, UH, THAN IN THE REST OF THE, UH, DALLAS. NOW, AND THIS IS A THING THAT WE HAVE TO REALLY THANK THE, THE, UH, ADVISORY COUNCIL. WHEN WE, WHEN WE, WE TALKED SOME MONTHS AGO, AND WE KIND OF STARTED WITH SOME PRELIMINARY FINDINGS. WE SAID, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, AND THEY SAID, WELL, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE DOWNTOWN, ALL THE ACTIVITIES TAKEN INTO DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND WE, OUR RESPONSE WAS, WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE OUR, IT'S NOT A LOCAL [01:30:01] HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS, AND THAT'S ONLY A NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT. AND THE RESPONSE FROM THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE SAID, WE DON'T CARE. THE FACT IS, THERE'S A LOT OF INVESTMENT THAT'S TAKING PLACE IN THAT, AND YOU'D BE, YOU'D BE REMISS IF YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT. AND ADVISORY ACCOUNT ABSOLUTELY WAS RIGHT. AND SO WE LOOKED AT THE INVESTMENT THAT'S BEEN MADE, UH, USING, UH, STATE AND FEDERAL TAX CREDITS, UH, UH, ALMOST 1.4 BILLION WITH A B BILLION DOLLARS, UH, OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS IN TAX CREDIT INVESTMENT. AND MUCH OF THAT, AGAIN, FROM THAT DOWNTOWN AREA. THERE'S A WHOLE SECTION IN THE REPORT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT, UH, DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. UH, BUT THAT WHAT THAT MEANS IS NOT, UH, ACCIDENTAL. IT'S NOT JUST A BUNCH OF OLD BUILDINGS FIXED UP. THE AVERAGE OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS HAS MEANT 857 JOBS IN THE CITY OF DALLAS. NOW, IF SOMEBODY CAME TO THE CITY COUNCIL, THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR CAME TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND SAID, HEY, I JUST ATTRACTED AN INDUSTRY THAT'S GONNA EMPLOY 800, GONNA GENERATE 857 JOBS AND 585 OF THOSE DIRECT JOBS EMPLOYED BY THEM. HE OR SHE HAD DID A STANDING OVATION FROM THE CITY COUNCIL. BUT THAT'S WHAT TAX CREDIT INVESTMENT YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR IS GENERATING, AND THAT MEANS ALMOST $60 MILLION OF LABOR INCOME IN DALLAS. NOW, AGAIN, THE, TO TO BE GEEKY ABOUT IT, THE, UH, ECONOMIC MODEL WE USE TO CALCULATE THIS LIMITS THAT TO BENEFITS TO, TO IMPACTS ON DALLAS. SO THERE MAY BE SOME WORKER THAT DROVE IN FROM, I DON'T KNOW, ENID, OKLAHOMA AND WORKED, THAT'S NOT INCLUDED. THESE ARE DALLAS IMPACTS IN NUMBERS OF JOBS, UH, AND LABOR INCOME. UH, BUT WE ALSO LOOKED BEYOND THE TAX CREDIT INVESTMENT WE LOOKED AT, AT THE PERMIT DATA. AND BY THE WAY, THE CITY WAS JUST GREAT ABOUT GETTING GOOD, UH, UH, DATA SOURCES FOR US TO DIG INTO. WE LOOKED AT THE INVESTMENT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, UH, IN OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS IN, UH, IN DALLAS. AND SO THERE'S BEEN ABOUT AN AVERAGE NUMBER OF JOBS, ABOUT 400 JOBS A YEAR IN THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, UH, INVESTMENT, UH, THAT MEANT, UH, THE $25 MILLION OF LABOR INCOME EVERY YEAR. AND IMPORTANTLY FOR THIS BUILDING, THERE'S ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY OF TAXES THAT ARE GENERATED BY THOSE PROJECTS. NOT THE PROPERTY TAXES ON THE BUILDINGS ON THOSE PROJECTS THEMSELVES GENERATED A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN REVENUE FOR THE, FOR THE CITY. NOW, WHEN WE WERE ASSIGNED THAT, THE TOURISM COMPONENT OF THIS, AND, AND THERE WAS SOME SKEPTICISM EVEN OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ASSIGNED IT TO US, SAY, WELL, MAYBE IT'S FORT WORTH THAT GETS ALL THE HERITAGE TOURISM. WE'RE NOT SO SURE THAT DALLAS IS A BIG, BIG, UH, HERITAGE TOURISM, BUT WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT. WELL, WHAT WE FOUND, IN FACT IT IS A, IS A, IS A BIG SHARE, IS THAT THE HERITAGE OVERNIGHT VISITORS, OR ABOUT A QUARTER OF ALL VISITORS WHO COME, I KNOW YOU ALL KNOW THIS, BUT JUST TO RESTATE IT, WE LOVE VISITORS, BUT THE VISITORS THAT STAY OVERNIGHT HAVE A MUCH LARGER IMPACT ON THE LOCAL ECONOMY. ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. AROUND 60% OF YOUR EXPENDITURES WHEN YOU'RE TRAVELING, ARE GONNA BE MADE IN THE CITY WHERE YOU STAY OVERNIGHT. SO WE HAVE A, AN OVERNIGHT VISITOR, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. SO ABOUT A, A QUARTER OF THE, UH, QUARTER OF THE, UH, ALL VISITORS ARE HERITAGE OVERNIGHT VISITORS, AND ANOTHER 17 12% ARE, UH, ARE DAY VISIT HERITAGE DAY VISITORS. BUT A DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF THE EXPENDITURES COMES FROM THOSE VISITORS. THEY'RE SPENDING MORE THAN THEIR, UH, RAW NUMBERS. AND THAT'S A TYPICAL PATTERN OF HERITAGE VISITORS. UH, SO IN, IN THE RANGE OF 10 MILLION HERITAGE VISITORS A YEAR, UH, COMING TO, UM, DALLAS, BY THE WAY, UH, THE, THE TOURISM ENTITY VISIT DALLAS, I THINK WAS ALSO REALLY, REALLY HELPFUL TO US IN, IN GATHERING DATA TO LOOK AT. AND HERE'S WHAT IT MEANS HERE. NOT ALL TOURISTS, HERITAGE VISITORS TO DALLAS SPEND TWO AND A HALF BILLION DOLLARS EVERY YEAR, UH, IN, IN YOUR, UH, ECONOMY. THERE'S ALSO THIS, THIS ATTRACTIVENESS OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS TO, TO BUSINESSES. AND AS A CONSEQUENCE TO JOBS, UH, IT'S JUST, THERE'S A, WE, THE, THE GEEKY TERM FOR IT IS REVEALED PREFERENCE IN THAT INSTEAD OF ASKING YOU HOW DO YOU WANT A OR B, YOU JUST SAY, HOW DO PEOPLE ACT IN THE MARKETPLACE? AND, AND SO WE LOOKED AT WHERE THE JOB GROWTH WAS. WELL, THE JOB GROWTH IN COMMERCIAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS, UH, UH, OVER THE LAST 12, 13 YEARS, 47% A RATE DOUBLE IN THE REST OF DALLAS. SO THAT, THAT, NOW AGAIN, IT'S NOT A LARGE AREA, BUT THAT SHOWS THIS PREFERENCE OF THE MARKETPLACE AND PARTICULARLY ATTRACTIVE TO CREATIVE WORKERS AND KNOWLEDGE WORKERS IN THE INFORMATION, UH, AREA, IN THE PROFESSIONAL, SCIENTIFIC AND TECHNICAL SERVICES. IN THE, IN THE CREATIVE CLASS ISSUE, THE ARTS, ENTERTAINMENT ALL HAVE A LARGER PROPENSITY TO BE IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS [01:35:01] THAN THEY DO IN THE CITY AS A WHOLE. THEN WALK SCORES, YOU ALL KNOW ABOUT WALK SCORES. YOU CAN PUT IN ANY ADDRESS IN AMERICA AND WALK SCORE.COM, AND IT'LL GIVE YOU A WALK SCORE FROM ZERO TO A HUNDRED. THE HIGHER THE NUMBER, THE MORE WALKABLE. WELL, WHAT'S TRUE IS THAT ALMOST EVERY LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT HAS WALK SCORES, UH, HIGHER, SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THE CITY AS A WHOLE. THE CITY AS A WHOLE, DALLAS AS A WHOLE, FALLS IN THE CAR DEPENDENT AREA. MOST ERRANDS REQUIRE A CAR. BUT EVERY ONE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, ALL, EVERY BARRING 10TH STREET HAS A, HAS A, UH, HIGHER WALK SCORE. AND MOST OF THEM, 70% OF THEM HAVE A WALK SCORE OF 70 OR MORE MEANING EITHER VERY WALKABLE OR WALKER'S, UH, PARADISE. ONE OF THE REASONS, AGAIN, IT'S NOT LIKE EVERYTHING'S NOT INTERCONNECTED. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE POPULAR PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE SHOWN BY THE, YOU KNOW, PREMIUM PAID FOR BUYING PROPERTIES, UH, IS THIS WALKABILITY THAT'S BECOME A MAJOR VARIABLE IN, IN PEOPLE'S CHOICES OF HOMES. WE ALSO LOOKED AT, AT THE ENVIRONMENT. NOW, AGAIN, IT'S NOT SAVINGS TO THE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE YOU DESIGNATED AND HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT'S THE NATURE OF THE DISTRICT AND WHERE THEY ARE AND HOW THEY'RE STRUCTURED. BUT IN TERMS OF VER OF CRITICAL ENVIRONMENTAL MEASURES, UH, ANNUAL VEHICLE MILES TRIAL, UH, UH, TRAVEL, UH, THE, UH, UH, GREENHOUSE GASES RELEASED, IN FACT DECIDEDLY LOWER, UH, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS. UH, AND THEN THIS ISSUE OF LOOKING AT THE OLDER HOUSING STOCK AS ITS CONTRIBUTION TO AFFORDABILITY, AGAIN, THIS WAS NOT HISTORIC HOUSING, IT WAS JUST OLD HOUSING. AND OUR THRESHOLD WAS, OUR APPROACH WAS THIS. WE SAID, LET'S LOOK AT THE HOUSING BUILT PRIOR TO 1970, AND LET'S LOOK AT CENSUS BLOCKS, WHICH IS USUALLY FIVE OR SIX CITY BLOCKS. UH, LET LET CENSUS BLOCKS WHERE OVER HALF OF THE HOUSING WAS BUILT PRIOR TO 1970. AND THE DARKER THE AREA. YOU CAN SEE THOSE WERE OUR, THOSE WERE THE AREAS WHERE WE, WHERE WE CONCENTRATED, UH, THE, THE, THE ANALYSIS. AND SO HERE'S THIS CONTRIBUTION TO AFFORDABILITY IN TERMS OF MEDIAN GROSS RENTS, UH, IN TERMS OF, UH, HOUSING COST BURDEN. HOUSING COST BURDEN IS A, IS A CONCEPT IN HOUSING ECONOMICS THAT IF YOU'RE SPENDING MORE THAN 30% OF THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME ON HOUSING, YOUR HOUSING COST BURDEN, WELL, TOO MANY PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ARE HOUSING COST BURDEN. BUT IN DALLAS, FOR BOTH OWNERS AND RENTERS, THERE'S A LOWER SHARE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HOUSING COST BURDEN IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAN IN THE REST OF THE CITY. AND AGAIN, ONE OF THE MYTHS IS, WELL, YEAH, BUT THOSE OLD HOUSES, THEY'RE JUST STANDING UP BECAUSE TERMITES ARE HOLDING HANDS. THEY'RE NO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT IN GOOD CONDITION. WELL, NO, WE LOOK AT THE ASSESSMENT DATA AND THEY HAVE A, A, A, A HOUSING QUALITY MEASURE. IN FACT, THE HOUSING CONDITION WAS ON AVERAGE GREATER BETTER IN THE PRE 1970 HOUSING THAN IT WAS IN THE POST 1970 HOUSE. SO, UH, THAT'S IT. I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS AND JUST, UH, I I, OVER THE WEEKEND I UPLOADED THE, THE REPORT INTO A, AN AI GENERATED AND I SAID, GENERATE ME AN INFOGRAPHIC THAT SUMMARIZED THE REPORT. SO HERE'S THE INFOGRAPHIC THAT DOES IT. SO THE REPORT'S READY TO BE DISTRIBUTED. AND, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY BOTH TO BE HERE AND TO DO THIS WORK. . OH, WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS. YES. I ALMOST FORGOT THEM. HOW COULD I, I KNOW BOTH OF THEM ALSO. I WAS GONNA LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT, UH, NOW THAT I HAVE THE, THE FINAL REPORT. RIGHT. SO, UM, I'LL GET IT, UH, ON OUR WEBPAGE BY THE END OF THE WEEK. OKAY. MARCEL QUIMBEE, I HAVE TO SWEAR. I WON'T LIE. NO, YOU CAN LIE IF YOU WANT ON THIS. IT'S NOT FUZZY JUDICIAL. OKAY, WELL I'M SO EXCITED TO BE HERE AND, UH, SEE AND HEAR THE RESULTS AND SEE THE RESULTS OF THE ECONOMIC IS THE MIC ON STUDY? YES, IT'S, I'M JUST NOT. OKAY. SO I'M JUST EXCITED TO BE HERE AND SEE THE RESULTS AND LOOK FORWARD TO READING ALL THE DETAILS OF THE ECONOMIC IMPACT REPORT. UM, AND I HAVE ONE QUESTION AND I THANK DONOVAN FOR COMING AND MAKING THE PRESENTATION. THAT WAS REALLY GREAT. ONE QUESTION, WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP AFTER THIS? I MEAN, WE OBVIOUSLY NEED TO SHARE IT WITH EVERYBODY BECAUSE WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO NEED TO KNOW THIS IN DALLAS AND WELL, I'M, I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS ON THE BEST WAY TO GET THIS INFORMATION TO THOSE WHO NEED TO HEAR ABOUT IT. UM, WE, WE'VE DISCUSSED SOME, SOME WAYS OF DOING THAT. I'D LIKE TO MAYBE AT LEAST, UH, GET WITH SOME OTHER, UH, WITH STAFF OF OTHER DEPARTMENTS IF I CAN'T GET ON, UH, MAYBE ANY COUNCIL COMMITTEE AGENDAS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UM, I'D LIKE TO AT LEAST GET THIS DISSEMINATED TO, UH, THE, THE RELEVANT STAFF, UH, AROUND CITY HALL. [01:40:01] AND THEN, UM, I'M, I'M OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS. OKAY. I GUESS WE NEED TO SIT BACK AND THINK ABOUT THAT AND SEND THOSE THROUGH. RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANKS. OKAY. AND I'M SURE EVERYONE'S HEARD OF WALMART CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, BIG PROPONENT OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. THANK YOU. UM, I WANNA THANK ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION AND DONOVAN FOR HIS WORK. I HAVE ONE QUESTION AND, AND THEN A COUPLE OF COMMENTS I WANNA MAKE SURE. WHEN YOU SAID THAT WE STUDIED THE TAX CREDITS, DID WE ALSO STUDY THE CITY'S ECONOMIC INCENTIVES AS PART OF THAT? JUST MAKING SURE WE DID. OKAY. AND THERE'S A SECTION, THE REPORT, I DIDN'T INCLUDE IT HERE, BUT SECTION IN THE REPORT THAT LOOKED AT THAT. YES. OKAY. AND I AM THE PERSON WHO PUSHED FOR LOOKING AT DOWNTOWN. 'CAUSE I WAS ON COMMITTEE. UM, LAST YEAR WAS A TOUGH YEAR FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US HAVE ANY QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE US TO DO MORE EDUCATION. AND I WANNA START WITH, AND I CAN SAY THIS 'CAUSE I SAT ON THE DALLAS CITY COUNCIL, WORKED ON THE ORDINANCE, WORKED ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT. THIS NEEDS TO GO TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE OF THE COUNCIL. IT NEEDS TO GO TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION. SO THEY KNOW, AND I UNDERSTOOD THEY WERE SUPPORTIVE OF THE QUEEN CITY ECONOMIC INCENTIVES. AM I CORRECT IN THAT? OKAY. IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT. HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS IMPORTANT. CULTURALLY, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO PRESERVE THESE BUILDINGS, THE CULTURAL ASPECTS OF THESE BUILDINGS. BUT IT, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO INCENTIVIZE THIS. AND I WANNA SEE A LITTLE MORE WORK ON OUR ECONOMIC INCENTIVES LOCALLY TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS. 'CAUSE WE DO A GREAT JOB SUPPORTING DOWNTOWN. AND I USED TO REPRESENT IT AND WORKED ON THAT, BUT WE NEED TO INCENTIVIZE IN, IN PLACES LIKE QUEEN CITY AND 10TH STREET, YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH A BETTER PROGRAM OR MORE INCLUSIVE PROGRAM AND YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. IT'S JUST, WE'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE IT OUT. SO I ENCOURAGE THAT TO HAPPEN. I ENCOURAGE US TO GET OUT IN THE COMMUNITY AND TALK ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION BECAUSE WE CAN'T TAKE ANOTHER YEAR LIKE THE LAST ONE, LOSING OUR BUILDINGS, THAT'S VERY BUILDING IN WHICH WE STAND IS AT RISK. I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE TO COME HERE AND ASK TO SAVE CITY HALL, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT, THE IMPORTANCE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION IN THE OVERALL COMMUNITY. AND WE NEED TO ALL PLAY A ROLE IN THAT. AND LET'S GET THE COUNCIL INVOLVED. AND EVEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION COULD SAY IMPROVE IN CERTAIN CASES, ECONOMIC INCENTIVES, ET CETERA. SO IF I CAN BE OF ASSISTANCE AND CALLING ON THESE FOLKS, I AM HAPPY TO DO SO. BUT LET'S LOCK ARMS AND GET EVERYBODY INVOLVED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. I BELIEVE WE ARE, COMMISSIONER RES WAS THE FIRST TO SAY SHE HAD A QUESTION. I JUST HAVE A QUESTION OF WHAT HERITAGE VISITORS ARE. IS THAT SOMEBODY COMING TO THE FAIR THAT SOMEBODY COMING TO DO WHAT I I'M SORRY I DIDN'T, MY HEARING'S NOT SO GREAT. WHAT, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A HERITAGE VISITOR? IS IT SOME, SOMEBODY WHO'S JUST COMING TO THE THEATER OR WHAT, WHAT IS IT? GREAT QUESTION. UM, WE, WE APPROACH IT IN TWO WAYS WHEN WE USE, WHEN WE DO TOURISM STUFF. AND WE, WE, WE TRY NOT TO FRANKLY. UH, AND THE REASON WE DON'T IS HERITAGE TOURISM IS A BIG DEAL. BUT MY GOAL IN LIFE, AND I'M OLD SO I GOTTA REACH IT SOON, IS THAT WHEN YOU SAY THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ECONOMICS, THERE ARE DEFAULT RESPONSES ALWAYS, OH, YOU MUST MEAN HERITAGE TOURISM. AND IT'S JUST THAT THERE'S A WHOLE SLEW OF BENEFICIARIES OF THE JUST TOURISM. BUT WHEN WE'RE ASKED TO DO IT, WE DO IT AND WE USE, WHEN WE, UH, GET, UH, DATA DIRECTLY, WE GET IT FROM LONGWOODS, WHICH IS THE BIG, UH, RESEARCH, INTERNATIONAL RESEARCH FIRM ON TOURISM. IT'S [01:45:01] ALSO WHO, UH, ONE OF THE TWO OR THREE, UM, SOURCES THAT VISIT DALLAS USES FOR THEIR STUFF IN THE, UH, IN THE, UH, LONGWOODS DATA. AND THEY GATHER THEIR DATA BY DOING QUARTERLY BIG NATIONAL SURVEYS. AND THEY HAVE A COUPLE SETS OF QUESTIONS. ONE WAS, IF YOU TRAVELED IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, WHAT DID YOU DO? AND THERE'S A LIST OF ABOUT 25 THINGS, TWO OR THREE OF WHICH ARE CLEARLY IN THE HERITAGE CATEGORY. AND THEN THE, UH, THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT SET OF QUESTIONS THAT WHAT ARE YOUR INTEREST AREAS ARE, AND AGAIN, 20 OR SO VARIABLES, TWO OR THREE OF THOSE ARE, ARE HERITAGE RELATED. UM, INTERESTS ARE, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE, WHATEVER THEY ARE. SO WHAT WE DO WITH THAT DATA IS WE SORT IT OUT AND WE, WE TAKE THE HERITAGE RESPONSES AND WHAT I DID, HERITAGE RESPONSES WITH, UH, MY INTEREST AREAS, MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT DOUBLE COUNTING AND PUT THOSE IN ONE BUCKET WITH EVERYBODY ELSE IN ANOTHER. AND THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE DIFFERENCE IN EXPENDITURE PATTERNS. NOW, IN THIS CASE, UH, WE USE LONGWOODS ITSELF HAS THEIR OWN METHODOLOGY, NOT DISSIMILAR TO OURS, WHERE THEY DEFINE HERITAGE VISITORS. AND SO WE JUST USE THEIR, THEIR, SINCE THEY'VE DONE A RECENT DALLAS STUDY AND WE USE THEIR DATA, THEY LET US RESORT THE DATA. WE USE THEIR DEFINITION OF HERITAGE VISITORS. SO, BUT, BUT TO CLARIFY, TOURISM PEOPLE, AND I, I, I LOVE THEM, BUT THEY KIND OF PRETEND THERE'S AN EXACTITUDE IN THE, IN THE DEFINITIONS AND NUMBERS THAT JUST REALLY DON'T EXIST. 'CAUSE EVEN IF YOU WENT TO, YOU KNOW, CHARLESTON FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF VISITING HISTORIC SITES, YOU'RE STILL GONNA HAVE BREAKFAST AT MCDONALD'S IS NOT HISTORICAL OR WHATEVER. SO IT, IT GETS, IT JUST, IT GETS A LITTLE FUZZY 'CAUSE THERE'S NO PURE TOURIST. IT'S, IT IS ANYTHING, BUT THAT'S HOW WE SORT IT. AND THIS PATTERN OF GREATER DAILY EXPENDITURE, LONGER LENGTH OF STAYS, UH, AND MORE PEOPLE IS, IS JUST KIND OF THE GENERAL PATTERN THAT SHOWED UP HERE IN DALLAS. OKAY. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? UH, YES. I WAS WORKING HERE IN 1995 WHEN THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE THIS, UM, PUT INTO A PRO, UH, PERFORM OR SOMETHING. I WAS HERE IN 1995 WHEN DOWNTOWN DALLAS WAS ON THE WAY OUT. IT WAS, IT WAS GONE. AND THE MAYOR IN THE CITY COUNCIL AT TIMES SAYS, LET'S TEAR ALL THOSE, THEY WERE 40 VACANT HISTORIC BUILDINGS. THE GOOD ONES, OKAY. ONLY THE ADFA HOTEL AND NEIMAN MARCUS HAD THE ORIGINAL USE. THE REST WERE ALL VACANT AND THE CITY COUNCILS TEAR THEM ALL DOWN. LET'S START OVER. MRS. DALLAS AND OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GOT TOGETHER AND STARTED THE IN TOWN HOUSING PROGRAM. IN TOWN HOUSING PROGRAM SAVED DOWNTOWN DALLAS. AND IN MY OPINION, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE ARTS DISTRICT AND ALL THAT WITHOUT A DOWNTOWN DALLAS. AND WITH INCENTIVES FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS, THE COUNTY, THE NATIONAL REGISTER, AND LATER THE STATE OF TEXAS, ALL 40 BILLIONS HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED TO HOUSING ECONOMIC, UM, NEW, NEW HOUSING, UM, HOTELS, APARTMENTS, CONDOS. WE WENT FROM ZERO TO ABOUT 20,000 PEOPLE LIVING IN DOWNTOWN. AND THE TAX BASE INCREASED. THERE WAS ALSO THE TIF PROGRAM, ALL OF THAT. I'VE NEVER SEEN A REPORT THAT SHOWED HOW HISTORIC, HOW OLD BUILDINGS, HISTORIC PRESERVATION CITY AND NATIONAL REGISTERED, UM, TAX CREDITS REALLY BASICALLY SAVED DOWNTOWN DALLAS. AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IF PRESENTED CORRECTLY, WOULD REALLY OPEN SOME EYES BECAUSE, AND ACTUALLY THERE'S BEEN A 10 OR 15 MORE BUILDINGS AS WE CHANGED THE, THE, THE, THE LEVEL. THERE'S 1950S AND SIXTIES, EVEN SOME SEVENTIES BUILDINGS. UH, ONE OF THE NATIONAL REGISTERED BUILDINGS WAS, I THINK IT WAS A $300 MILLION RESTORATION. THEY GOT 45% OF THAT BACK INTO TAX CREDIT. THAT'S HOW YOU SAVE BILLIONS. HOW YOU SAVE DOWNTOWN DALLAS. I THINK THAT WOULD CATCH PEOPLE'S EYES. SO IT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE MIGHT CONSIDER IN THE FUTURE. UH, WELL JUST, JUST TWO, TWO GENERAL OBSERVATIONS. UH, ONE IS MOST OF MY CAREER HAS BEEN WORKING IN DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION STUFF AND I JUST, I JUST SPEND 220 NIGHTS A YEAR IN HOTELS. SO I GO EVERY PLACE. I CANNOT EX CITE A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF A SUSTAINED SUCCESS STORY IN DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION WHERE HISTORIC PRESERVATION WASN'T A KEY COMPONENT, NOT ONE. AND CONVERSELY, WHERE THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION WASN'T ANY, THERE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN SUSTAINED. I DEFINE, I DEFY SOMEBODY TO COME UP WITH AN EXAMPLE OF SUSTAINED DOWNTOWN REVITALIZATION WHERE HISTORIC PRESERVATION WASN'T A PIECE OF IT. SECOND OBSERVATION. AND, AND, AND YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE TAX CREDIT IS RIGHT, IS THAT RUTGERS DOES AN ANNUAL ANALYSIS OF THE, OF THE FEDERAL TAX CREDIT. AND THE REASON IT WAS SAVED WHEN THE, UH, WHEN, UH, EIGHT YEARS AGO, WHEN THERE WAS SIX YEARS AGO, WHEN THIS FEDERAL TAX LAW WAS BEING WRITTEN, WAS BASICALLY THE FINDINGS THAT FOR EVERY DOLLAR THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUTS OUT IN [01:50:01] TAX CREDITS, THEY ULTIMATELY GET A DOLLAR 12 OR A DOLLAR 13 BACK IN THE FEDERAL TREASURY. SO HOW MANY FEDERAL PROGRAMS MORE THAN PAY FOR THEMSELVES? THE ANSWER IS ZERO. AND SO IT WAS, WHETHER YOU'RE A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT OR A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN SAYING, WE'RE GETTING MORE BACK THAN WE PUTTING OUT IN THIS, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT CARGOES AND CORNISHES, BUT THEY SAY THAT'S JUST GOOD, GOOD SENSE. AND THAT'S WHY IT HAPPENS. SO THE OTHER THING THAT I, THAT I'D POINT OUT IS THAT WHAT IT MEANS LOCALLY IS THERE ARE DOLLARS THAT ARE NOW STAYING IN TEXAS, NOT GOING TO WASHINGTON WHEN YOU HAVE TAX CREDITS. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS. THEY'RE STAYING HERE AND NOT GOING AWAY. SO COMMISSIONER PRESEN, UH, FIRST OFF, I WANNA THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING PART OF THIS AND, AND PUTTING THIS REPORT TOGETHER. I THINK IT'S GONNA BE AN EXCELLENT TOOL FOR US AS WE MOVE FORWARD, ESPECIALLY EVEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS BUILDING AND WHY IT'S IMPORTANT SURVEY. I LOVE THE INFOGRAPHIC. UH, I LOVE, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S GREAT THE WAY IT JUST SUMMARIZES EVERYTHING AND IT'S EASY FOR PEOPLE TO SEE. UH, COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. WAS THERE ANYTHING SURPRISING ABOUT THE STUDY THAT YOU FOUND HERE IN DALLAS? AND THEN HOW DO WE COMPARE TO MAYBE SOME OTHER CITIES LIKE IN TEXAS, LIKE SAN ANTONIO? I KNOW YOU'VE WORKED ON THEIR REPORT IN SAN ANTONIO. WELL, WE, WE, WE HAVE, AND MAYBE THE, THE THE OTHER TWO, UH, THE OTHER TWO CITIES WHERE WE'VE DONE REPORTS THAT ARE, MAY BE MORE COMPARABLE, YOU CAN CORRECT ME, BUT MORE COMPARABLE TO DALLAS THAN SAN ANTONIO ARE PHOENIX AND LOS ANGELES, KIND OF NEWER CITIES AND, YOU KNOW, CUTTING EDGE CITIES AND GOOD BUSINESS CITIES AND STUFF. UH, I THINK THAT THE, UM, IF THERE WAS A SURPRISE HERE, I THINK ONE WAS THE ONLY BECAUSE WE WERE, WE WERE TOLD YOU'RE NOT GONNA FIND MUCH WAS THE HERITAGE TOURISM COMPONENT OF THE HERITAGE INDUSTRY. I THINK THAT WAS A SURPRISE TO US. UH, I THINK THAT THE, THE, THE RACIAL DIVERSITY OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN, IN DALLAS WAS A REALLY A PLEASANT SURPRISE. AND ONE THAT, THAT WAS, THE GROUND HAS BEEN LAID FOR A LONG TIME. THAT 10TH STREET WAS A EARLY EARLY ONE. AND IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S THE, YOU KNOW, BEST SHAPE AND IT'S WHY THE EXACT, WE HAVE TO FIND MORE INCENTIVES, BUT, UH, ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT WHAT A WONDER. WE LOVE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT, AGAIN, I DON'T, WE WE TRY TO COME IN WITHOUT PRECONCEPTIONS OF A CITY, BUT THAT WAS A, THAT WAS I THINK A, A, A PLEASANT SURPRISE. UM, I THINK THAT THE RELATIVELY SMALL, UH, LAND AREA AND POPULATION IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS IS ALSO A SURPRISE. AGAIN, I'M ALWAYS, I'M, I'M USUALLY RELUCTANT TO COMPARE, YOU KNOW, CITY A TO CITY B. THERE'S JUST SO MUCH IN CONTEXT THAT DIFFERS. BUT IT WOULD NOT BE UNCOMMON THAT A CITY OF THIS SIZE, MAYBE THREE OR 4% OF THE LAND AREA AND MAYBE FIVE OR 6% OF THE POPULATION WAS IN HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO EVEN IF YOU PUT BOTH CONSERVATION DISTRICT, HISTORIC DISTRICT, THAT'S LOWER. AND THAT I, THAT'S NOT A CRITICISM, NOT GOOD OR BAD, IT'S JUST WHAT, WHAT KIND OF DIFFERENCE. UM, YEAH. AND I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT WAS SURPRISING WAS, UM, WAS THE, UH, RENTER SHARE OF, OF, UH, HOUSE OF HOUSING UNITS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THE OTHER THING, AND AGAIN, I DIDN'T SHOW IT HERE, BUT IT'S IN THE REPORT, IS THAT THERE IS, SO YOU HAVE ONE OF THE CRITIQUES OFTEN OF, OF, UH, NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE PREDOMINANTLY RENTAL IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE JUST ALL COME AND GO. AND THERE'S NO WAY TO ESTABLISH A KIND OF LONG-TERM STABILITY IN NEIGHBORHOOD. NOT TRUE HERE. EXTREMELY LONG, UH, UM, TENDENCY OF, OF RENTERS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE UH, I MEAN, I FORGET THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT LIKE 20% OF ALL THE RENTERS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 30 YEARS OR MORE. SO IT REALLY IS A KIND OF CONTRARY TO THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM, A REALLY STABILIZING FACTOR. SO I THINK ALL OF THOSE WERE BOTH SURPRISES AND COMPARISONS. I WAS REALLY, I'M SURPRISED BY THE AMOUNT OF PERCENTAGE OF THE LAND AS WELL. 1.5. I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE ROUND TWO, BUT STILL, I THINK THAT SHOWS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE GET PRESERVATION GETS ACCUSED A LOT OF TIMES OF STOPPING DEVELOPMENT IN THIS CITY. WHEN YOU SAY ONLY 1%, 1.5% OF THE CITY IS PROTECTED TO ME THAT THAT DOES AWAY WITH THAT ARGUMENT. YEAH. AND WE, OF COURSE WE'VE DONE TWO REPORTS IN NEW YORK CITY WHERE THE REAL ESTATE BOARD IN NEW YORK IS KIND OF MAKING THAT CASE. AND MY RESPONSE IS, LOOK, AND THEY ARE IN CITYWIDE ABOUT 5% OF THE, I SAID, SO IF YOU'RE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT IN THE OTHER 95% OF THE BEACH, MAYBE YOU'RE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO BE A DEVELOPER. I DON'T KNOW. YES. OH, . OH, I'M SORRY. MY ONLY OTHER THING IS I WISH YOU COULD PRESENT DIRECTLY TO THE, UH, CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE THIS IS AMAZING TO HEAR THAT. [01:55:01] I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE IF THEY CAN DO IT THROUGH ZOOM OR SOMETHING, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE CITY TO HEAR THIS AND HEAR THIS PRESENTATION DIRECTLY WOULD BE NO PRESSURE. BUT OKAY. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS ON DALLAS'S BEHALF. OKAY, NOW WE ARE READY. HEAR CASE C SEVEN , YOU LITTLE CONFUSED. NOW DID YOU THINK WE WOULD NEVER GET TO ANY CA MORE CASES OR WHAT? YEAH, WE DO HAVE ONE REGISTERED SPEAKER FOR THAT ONE. CHRISTINA PEREZ ON BEHALF OF STAFF CONSENT ITEM NUMBER 7 3 11 NORTH CLINTON AVE, AKA HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT COA 25 0 0 0 4 6 1. PARDON? REQUEST ONE. A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A PERGOLA IN THE REAR YARD. REQUEST TWO, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A COLUMN ON FRONT PORCH OF MAIN STRUCTURE. REQUEST THREE, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REMOVE TWO TREES FROM FRONT YARD OF MAIN STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDATION NUMBER ONE, THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A PERGOLA IN THE REAR YARD BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 1 5 20 26. THE PROPOSED WORK, UH, IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA IN SECTION 51 P DASH 87 1 11 B, THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 DASH 4 5 0 1 G SIX C ROMAN I FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION STAFF. RECOMMENDATION NUMBER TWO, THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A COLUMN ON FRONT PORCH OF MAIN STRUCTURE BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND CER SPECIFICATIONS DATED 1 5 20 26 WITH THE FINDING OF FACT THAT THE PROPOSED WORK WILL NOT HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE STRUCTURE OR DISTRICT. THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH RESERVATION CRITERIA IN SECTION 51 P DASH 87 1 11 A NINE, THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 DASH 4 5 0 1 G SIX C ROMAN I FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION STAFF. RECOMMENDATION NUMBER THREE, THAT, THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REMOVE TWO TREES FROM THE FRONT YARD OF MAIN STRUCTURE BE APPROVED. THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA IN SECTION 51 P DASH 87 1 11 B. THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 DASH 4.501 G SIX C, ROMAN AND I FOR CONTRIBUTE STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR SETTINGS TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION, NO QUORUM TASK FORCE IN FAVOR OF INSTALLATION OF PER PERGOLA AND REMOVAL OF TREES. HOWEVER, NOT IN FAVOR OF AN ADDITIONAL COLUMN. ALL RIGHTY. AND WE HAVE ONE PERSON SIGN UP TO SPEAK ON THIS CASE. IT IS ERIC VIS IS ERIC VIS ONLINE WITH US? HE WAS SHOWING. THERE HE IS. YEAH, HE IS SHOWING. HE, HE DID ASK IF HE SHOULD STAY ON 'CAUSE WE HAVE BEEN EMAILING BACK AND FORTH AND I SAID, OH, OKAY. PLEASE DO SO. OKAY. MR. VIS, ARE YOU THERE SOMEWHERE? TURN ON YOUR CAMERA AND YOUR MICROPHONE PLEASE. I, I THINK HE WAS HERE MOSTLY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. OKAY. BUT I, THERE HE'S, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YEAH. OKAY. UM, HELLO COUNSEL. THANK YOU FOR, UH, TAKING THE TIME TO MEET MY CASE TODAY. OKAY. WE DO NEED TO ARE YOU HAVE YOUR CAMERA ON? 'CAUSE WE'RE IT'S THE STATE LAW. YOU HAVE TO BE ON CAMERA SO WE KNOW IT'S, UH, I DO, I DO. UM, HOWEVER, IT'S NOT PICKING IT UP. I WILL SAY SOME OF MINE ON MY SCREEN ARE NOT SHOWING EVERYTHING EITHER. YEAH. LIKE IT'S NOT POPULATING. I DON'T KNOW HOW LOUD ADRIAN, CAN YOU SEE HIM? I SEE AN EMAIL. WELL THAT, THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S GETTING CLOSER. AT LEAST SEE THE NAME. SORRY ABOUT THIS. BUT THE STATE DOES SAY WE HAVE TO HAVE YOU ON CAMERA TO BE A SPEAKER AT A PUBLIC MEETING. NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL. I THINK I JUST POPPED UP. THERE YOU ARE. OKAY. . OKAY. HELLO EVERYONE. WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO, SIR, IS GIVE US YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU WILL TELL US THE TRUTH TODAY. OKAY? SURE. MY NAME IS ERIC NARVA, PROPERTY ADDRESS THREE 11 NORTH CLINTON AVENUE, UH, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 0 8. AND [02:00:01] I AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH. UH, SO HELP ME, GOD. OKAY. IS THERE ANYTHING, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU WANNA PROVIDE US ABOUT YOUR CASE AND THEN WE WOULD ASK YOU QUESTIONS? NOT SO MUCH. UM, BUT THANK YOU FOR, UH, APPROVING THE COLUMN AND THE REMOVAL OF THE, UH, FRONT TREES THAT ARE IMPACTING THE, UH, FOUNDATION. UH, BUT JUST, UH, WHEN WE HAD WALKED THE PROPERTY, IT IS A DUPLEX, WE'RE TRYING TO CONVERT IT TO A, UH, SINGLE FAMILY UNIT. AND WE'VE NOTICED, UH, SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINES THAT THE HOUSE MUST HAVE BEEN ANNEXED. UM, THE REASON WHY WE'RE WANTING TO PUT IN ANOTHER SECOND COLUMN IS FOR THE FACT THAT, UM, WE BELIEVE THAT THAT AT ONE TIME USED TO BE ONE LONG FRONT PORCH. UH, JUST BECAUSE IN THE LIVING ROOM, SOME OF THE, UH, THE CEILING, THE BEADBOARD IS IDENTICAL TO THE PORCH OUT THERE. SO IT'S, SO IT'S OUR ENGINEER FIGURED OUT THAT OKAY, THIS WAS ADDED ON. WELL THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER COLUMNS THERE THAT WERE ALSO EXISTING THAT ARE NO LONGER THERE. BUT THE, UH, THE MAIN HEADER HAS BEEN SAGGING OVER TIME AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT, UM, ADDING ANOTHER IDENTICAL COLUMN WILL HELP KEEP THAT STRUCTURE, UH, SUPPORTED, UH, MOVING FORWARD. UM, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING TO DO. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. OKAY. COMMISSIONERS COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, YOU REQUESTED? OH YES, I REQUESTED THIS TO BE REVIEWED FURTHER. UM, THERE ARE, THERE'S A LOT OF PROPERTIES OR THERE ARE A FEW PROPERTIES YOU SAY THAT HAVE A, A, A PEDESTAL WITHOUT A COLUMN. TYPICALLY THERE'S COLUMNS ON EVERY PEDESTAL AND IT'S KIND OF A RARE AND UNUSUAL STYLE FOR IT TO HAVE THE LONGER SPAN. AND MY CONCERN WAS THE TASK FORCE'S, UM, RECOMMENDATION THAT IT NOT BE, UM, BE ADDED IN. UM, I HAVE A, A SERIOUS CONCERN THAT ADDING THIS COLUMN, UH, IS A PROBLEM. IT, IT FOLLOWS, IT DOES NOT FOLLOW SECRETARY INTERIOR STANDARD NUMBER THREE, WHICH IS ADDING CONTEXTUAL FEATURE CON CON CONTEXTUAL FEATURES CREATES A FALSE SENSE OF HISTORIC DEVELOPMENT. AND, YOU KNOW, JUST SAYING THAT OTHER PROPERTIES HAVE A COLUMN, THERE ISN'T REALLY THE RIGHT ANSWER FOR THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE FURTHER IF THAT, UM, HEADER COULD BE REPAIRED ANOTHER WAY. ADDING A AN INTERIM COLUMN THERE REALLY TAKES AWAY A UNIQUE FEATURE OF THIS PROPERTY. AND THAT'S MY CONCERN. AND WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION TO THE APPLICANT? HIS, HIS OPINION OF THE COLUMN? OR IS HE WILLING NOT TO HAVE? WELL, IS THERE, UM, HAVE THEY EXPLORED A WAY TO, UH, FIX THE, THE SAG IN THE, THE ROOF ANOTHER WAY? UM, I JUST THINK IT'S A, IT'S A WRONG IDEA TO PUT ANOTHER, THE COLUMN THERE WITHOUT FURTHER INFORMATION. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER IDEAS, SIR, ON HOW TO FIX THE SAGGING ROOF WITHOUT A COLUMN? IF THAT CANNOT BE APPROVED? I MEAN, UH, THE HEADER IS INDEED GONNA HAVE TO BE REPLACED, BUT UM, JUST WITH THAT SPAN, SO GREAT. I MEAN, OVER TIME IT WILL SAG AND IT WILL BE AN ISSUE. UM, LATER ON DOWN THE LINE AGAIN, UH, WHEN THAT HOUSE WAS BUILT, IT WAS BUILT AS A DUPLEX AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT, UH, PART OF THE LIVING, THE CURRENT LIVING ROOM NOW AT ONCE UPON A TIME WAS A PORCH. SO IT MIGHT HAVE LOOKED DIFFERENT. UH, WE'VE GONE AND LOOKED TO TRY TO FIND, UM, ANY KIND OF PHOTOS THAT WE CAN SEE BACK IN THE DAY BEFORE IT HAD BEEN ANNEXED, BUT WE CAN'T FIND ANYTHING. UM, HOWEVER, JUST FROM A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER POINT, UM, I KNOW AESTHETICALLY, UH, IT MAY NOT BE THE MOST APPEALING, BUT THAT'S WHY WE JUST WANT TO MIMIC THE EXISTING COLUMN JUST SO IT CAN GIVE, ITS A UNIFIED DEFINITION. BUT, UM, YEAH, WHEN YOU WALK UP TO THE, UH, TO THE PROPERTY, UM, ANYBODY'S GONNA SEE THAT THAT BIG HEAD OR SAGGING, UH, IS GONNA BE A STRUCTURAL ISSUE. UM, I MEAN I DON'T, I DON'T MEAN TO UH, YOU KNOW, COME AND SAY THIS THE WRONG WAY, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ENGINEER OR BE ANYBODY OF A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL TO VISUALLY SEE THAT THAT IS A STRUCTURAL ISSUE ISSUES. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? QUESTION? COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS? UH, TWO QUESTIONS. ONE FOR STAFF FIRST. UM, IS THE SANBORN MATT SHOW THE PORCH ALLOCATION, ANYTHING SIMILAR? WOULD THAT SHOW ANYTHING THAT THERE'S BEEN MAJOR CHANGES TO THE PORCH? I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE WHAT HE'S SAYING IS PART OF THE LIVING ROOM NOW IS TAKING OVER WHAT THE PORCH WOULD'VE BEEN. SO IF THE SAND BOARD, IT'S GONNA SHOW THE EXACT SHAPE 'CAUSE IT WON'T SHOW THE INSIDE. LIKE SOMETIMES IT KIND OF SHOWS . WELL, WE'LL SHOW THE OUTLINE OF THE PERIMETER, SHOW THE PORCH. BUT HAVE WE, DO WE HAVE A, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ONE, BUT I I THINK WHAT HE'S TRYING TO SAY IS THE INSIDE WAS PUSHED OUT OF THE PORCH. YEAH. AND THE ROOF IN THAT PART OF THE LIVING ROOM SHOW LOOKS LIKE THE, THE PORCH AND LIKE THE R CERTAINLY BE A VERY COMMON FACADE TO HAVE A PORCH ALL THE WAY ACROSS, LIKE THE RIGHT SIDE IS [02:05:01] OUT FRONT. AND HE IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT HE'S SAYING THAT THERE'S A, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A CONTINUED PORCH ALL THE WAY ACROSS MM-HMM. FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER. YEAH. YES. AND THEN WHAT I'M SEEING IS ON THAT THREE GANG WINDOW IS, IS BEING, IT'S NOT ORIGINAL AND THEN THAT'S PURPORTED TO BE POSSIBLY WHERE THE PORTS GOT ENCLOSED. IT IT COULD BE, IT WAS A DUPLEX. OKAY. SO BEFORE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT, BUT THAT'S CONJECTURE. YEAH. YES. OKAY. AND, AND A LOT OF TIMES THE SANDBORN WILL SHOW THE OUTLINE OF THE PERIMETER AND THEN IT, IT MIGHT, IT MIGHT HAVE THAT LITTLE PORCH OFF TO THE SIDE. UM, IS THERE GHOSTING? THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THE, UH, WELL, FOR BOTH. THERE'S NOT, I ASKED HIM, HIM AND I DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE. THERE'S NO GHOSTING OF, UH, POTENTIALLY ANOTHER COLUMN THERE. OKAY. UM, AND THEY'RE NOT SAYING THEY WANT IT JUST BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS IT. THEY'RE, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIX THE SACK. YEAH. YEAH. I, I UNDERSTAND. UM, I HAD A BUNGALOW AND I HAD THE MYSTERIOUS MISSING MIS MISSING COLUMN THAT YOU SEE ON BUNGALOWS. AND YOU KNOW, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IS NOT ATYPICAL, UM, OF BUNGALOWS. THAT, THAT YOU SEE THAT PRETTY COMMON. SOMETIMES YOU DO, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T. AND, UH, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, MY RESEARCH AT THE TIME, IT WAS JUST, UH, UTILIZED AS TRYING TO OPEN UP THE VIEWS, UH, FROM WHATEVER PICTURE WINDOW THEY MAY HAVE THAT WAS ON THE PORCH OR JUST USING THE PORCH. AND THOSE WERE, THOSE WERE NOT PUT IN TO OPEN UP THE VIEWS HISTORICALLY. SO I KIND OF HATE ADDING SOMETHING THAT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE, ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S NO GHOSTING. UM, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN, IN THIS MYSTERY OF THE PORCH. UM, BUT ANYWAY, SO THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS AND YES, MINE ACTUALLY, MINE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A SAG TOO AFTER A HUNDRED YEARS. IT HAD A BIT OF A SLAP SAG AND I HAD IT CHECKED OUT AND IT WASN'T, MY PERSONAL THING WASN'T AN ISSUE AT THE TIME WITH, WITH A SLIGHT DEFLECTION EACH, EACH THEIR OWN CASE. AND THAT WOULD NEED TO BE LOOKED AT A LITTLE FURTHER AS WELL. I, I WOULD ADMIT, IS IT POSSIBLE TO PUT THAT, UM, PICTURE OF THE, THE FRONT FRONT OF THE ELEVATION ON THE SCREEN AGAIN SO WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT? YES. I'M TRYING TO ALSO SEE IF I HAVE THAT FAN. I THINK PART OF MY CONCERN IS THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO INFORMATION IN THE DOCKET ABOUT THE COLUMN. IT SAYS WE'RE GONNA PUT A NEW COLUMN THAT THERE WAS NO PICTURE, NO SKETCH, NO NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS OF THE STRUCTURE. SO THAT WAS ONE OF MY CONCERNS. ALSO, THERE WAS NO INFORMATION. WELL, THE, THE, THE COLUMN WAS TO MATCH EXACTLY THE OTHER TWO AND TO GO ON THE BASE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A COLUMN , BUT THERE'S NO INFORMATION ON WHY THEY WANTED TO PUT THE COLUMN THERE. IT WAS THAT I COULD SEE. SO, OKAY, LET ME PULL UP THE, I'M I'M GONNA PULL UP THE DOCKET BECAUSE SINCE THIS WAS A CONSENT, I DIDN'T DO THE PRESENTATION. OKAY. THIS IS THE HOUSE. I WILL SAY THE HOUSE DOES NOT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THIS, THAT ASBESTOS SIDING HAS BEEN REMOVED. THERE IS, UH, WOOD SIDING THERE NOW. A LOT OF WORK AND HAS BEEN PUT INTO THIS TO BRING IT TO CONTRIBU BEING STATUS. UM, SO WE'RE JUST DOING THE LAST LITTLE BIT LEFT. UM, I, I, I HAVE AN ANSWER THOUGH ABOUT THE SANDBORN MAP. OKAY. I BELIEVE I HAVE FOUND IT, ALTHOUGH THE ADDRESS IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT WOULD'VE BEEN THREE 13 IT OR IT, WELL NO, I THINK ON HERE BECAUSE I COUNTED DOWN THREE HOUSES SOUTH OF EIGHTH STREET ON CLINTON. UM, BACK IN THE DAY IT WOULD'VE BEEN 2 33 IF IT'S STILL, I MEAN IF I'M COUNTING HOUSES RIGHT, AND IT, THIS DOES SHOW A FULL WIDTH PORCH. ONE MORE QUESTION. IF THAT COLUMN'S INSTALLED, WILL IT BE IN FRONT OF A DOOR OR A WINDOW? IT'S KIND OF HARD TO SEE WITH THIS PICTURE, BUT IT APPEARS THAT IN FRONT OF IT IT WOULD KIND OF LINE UP JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT OF THAT. SO, UM, IT WOULDN'T BE OBSTRUCTING ANY END OR ANYTHING. UM, I'M PULLING IT UP RIGHT NOW. THE PERSON THAT HAD JUST MENTIONED, UM, ABOUT THE COUNTING THE HOUSES DOWN, YOU SAID YOU FOUND SOME MATERIAL THAT SHOWS THAT IT WAS MAYBE ONCE UPON A TIME, AN EXISTING PORCH. [02:10:01] WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO SHARE, UM, WERE YOU ABLE TO GET THAT? 'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANYTHING. I'LL, LET ME, UM, I WAS GONNA PULL OUT, I HAVE THE 1920 PULLED UP AND UH, WHILE Y'ALL LOOK AT OTHER THINGS, I'M GONNA PULL ALL UP ALSO THE 1950 COMPARE. OKAY. WHAT HE'S LOOKING AT IS THESE OLD MAPS THEY USED TO DO FOR FIRE PURPOSES FOR FIRE INSURANCE AND THEY TELL YOU WHAT, HOW HOUSES LOOKED AT A CERTAIN TIME AND WHAT THEY'RE MADE OF. AND THEY DO SHOW THE PORCH ON. IT'S HARD TO GET IT DIRECT BECAUSE THERE'S A TREE RIGHT IN FRONT OF IT. YEAH. LOOKING AT THE PLAN, IT LOOKS LIKE THE COLUMN WILL BE JUST AT THE EDGE. THE STARTING EDGE OF THE DOOR. YES. YEAH. WHICH THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A WINDOW BECAUSE, SO FOR INSTANCE, IT LOOKS LIKE MOST OF THE, UH, THE WATERFALL STEPS WOULD'VE LINED STRAIGHT UP WITH THE, UM, WITHOUT A CURVE IN THE SIDEWALK AT ONE TIME. YEAH. WHICH WOULD PUT IT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HOUSE. YEAH. NOT, NOT TO ONE SIDE. YEAH. IT'S REALLY KIND OF HARD TO DETERMINE THIS FROM A PHOTO. BUT WHEN YOU WALK THE UM, THE PROPERTY, LIKE I SAID, WHEN YOU GO INSIDE WHERE THOSE THREE ROOMS ARE AND YOU LOOK UP AT THE CEILING, THE B BOARD MATCHES ALL THE WAY, UM, INTO THE PORCH. SO, UH, WHICH WAS A GOOD INDICATOR FOR US AT ONCE UPON A TIME, ALL OF THAT WAS ONE FRONT PORCH. YES. AND THE SAND BOARD MAP THAT THE STAFF HAS FOUND DOES SUPPORT THAT. IT USED TO BE A STRAIGHT ACROSS PORCH, WHICH IS A FAIRLY COMMON ARRANGEMENT FOR A BUNGALOW LIKE THIS TO HAVE A PORCH LIKE THAT. GOTCHA. ON THIS KIND OF ROOF AND EVERYTHING ELSE. IT'S PART OF IT. ANOTHER CONCERN I HAVE, IF YOU PUT A COLUMN THERE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A VERY NARROW ENTRY. I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER PROPERTY THAT IS, IF THAT SEEMED TO BE PRETTY TIGHT RIGHT THERE WALL, WELL THIS IS NOT THE ORIGINAL ENTRY ANYWAY, THAT THIS IS IN ITSELF CONJECTURE. IF THEY WOULD'VE BUILT IT TO SAY, OH, I WANNA MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THIS, THIS, IT WOULDN'T HAVE LOOKED LIKE THIS BEFORE THEY ADDED THIS COVERED PORCH OR ENCLOSED THE PORCH AND DID THE LITTLE SQUIGGLY, UM, YOU KNOW, WALKWAY FROM THE WATERFALL STEPS TO THE EXISTING STEPS. NOW I THINK MY CONCERN IS IF YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE THAT SOLID WALL THAT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE. WHEN YOU PUT A COLUMN THERE, IT'S GONNA BE A VERY PINCHED OPENING AND IT'S GONNA REALLY KIND OF OBSCURE THAT WHOLE PORCH. THERE'S GONNA BE ANY TYPE. ARE YOU SAYING IT'S GOING TO BE VISUALLY SQUISHED OR PHYSICALLY 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S, WELL, VISUALLY, VISUALLY, VISUALLY, VISUALLY AND PHYSICALLY. I MEAN, IT, IT WILL BE BOTH. IF YOU, I MEAN IT'S UNUSUAL TO HAVE A WALL THAT PROBABLY THAT PORCH MAY HAVE BEEN OPENED. ORIGINALLY IT WAS, THEY JUST, MARCUS JUST, YES, IT'S ON THE SANDBAR MAP, BUT IT WAS ORIGINALLY, BUT ONCE YOU, IF YOU HAVE THAT WALL THERE NOW, WHICH IS PREEXISTING AND YOU PUT A COLUMN ON THAT PEDESTAL, IT'S GONNA BE VISUALLY AND PHYSICALLY KIND OF TIGHT AND IT'S GONNA OBSCURE THE FRONT PORCH. WELL THE, THE, THERE'S ALREADY A BASE THERE, SO IT'S NOT, I MEAN IT MIGHT OBSCURE IT A A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT NO MORE THAN ANY OTHER HOUSE IT WOULD HAVE, IT WON'T BE ANY MORE PHYSICALLY IN THE WAY THAN THE PORCH, THAN THE COLUMN BASES AREN'T THERE. AND THE LIMITS OF THE STAIRS ARE ALREADY THAT WENT. SO, BUT I, I COULD SEE THE POINT THAT ONE COULD ARGUE IT WOULD BE LIKE IT LOOKED VISUALLY SMALL, BUT, WELL, I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION AT AN APPROPRIATE TIME. I, OKAY. I I DID WANT TO GO AHEAD AND I, SO I HAVE LOOKED AT THE 1920 AT THE HOUSE. IT HAD A FULL WIDTH PORCH AND NOW AT THE 1950 IT HAS A PROTRUDING THREE QUARTER FOR, UH, SOMETIME BETWEEN 1920 AND 1950. OKAY. SEE HOW WONDERFUL IS HISTORIC RESOURCES ARE FOR GETTING THIS ONE PERMISSION, MARCUS. OKAY. UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE ON THE COMMISSION WHO NEEDS TO ASK A QUESTION BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION? ALRIGHT THEN I'M READY FOR MOTION IN THE CASE OF CO 8 2 5 0 0 4 6 1 3 11 NORTH CLINTON. I MOVE TO FOLLOW THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEMS ONE AND TWO, DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE OF ITEM NUMBER, ITEM NUMBER ONE AND THREE I DENIAL WITHOUT PREJUDICE OF ITEM NUMBER TWO, UH, ACCORDING TO THE SECRETARY STANDARD. NUMBER THREE, ADDING THE COLUMN CREATES A FALSE SENSE OF HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT AND WILL HAVE A DIVERSE EFFECT ON THE STRUCTURE AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. YOU'LL HAVE A SECOND FOR THIS MOTION. [02:15:05] PRE SECOND. COMMISSIONER PRE IS NOW SECONDED. OKAY. COMMENTS? I'LL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER RES. I, I, I'M BEARING THAT WAY. MYSELF. UM, OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T KNOW THERE WAS A COLUMN THERE, BUT I THINK IT'S, IT IS EXTREMELY LIKELY NOW THAT WE KNOW IT USED TO BE A FULL, FOR THAT. THERE WAS MORE THAN THE COLUMNS THAT WE SEE NOW. AND FOUR, IT'S JUST THE LOGICAL NUMBER THERE WOULD'VE BEEN. SO THIS WOULD'VE BEEN THE SECOND OUT OF THE FOUR. AND SO IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM THAT CONJECTURAL AT THIS POINT, IT IS A EXTREMELY LIKELY A REPLACEMENT OF WHAT WAS ALREADY THERE. YES, CHAIRMAN. FOR PURPOSES OF, UH, MYSELF AND, AND MS. ELAINE TRYING TO KEEP TRACK OF MOTION, I WANTED TO JUST, UH, MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTOOD IT. IT WAS ESSENTIALLY A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEMS ONE AND THREE WITH CONDITIONS, AND THEN DENY ITEM TWO. YEAH. YES. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. MR. CUMMINGS. YEAH. I DON'T BELIEVE I'LL BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION. ALL I HAVE ACTUALLY KIND OF CHANGED MY THOUGHTS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS. 'CAUSE I WOULD'VE BEEN SUPPORTING THIS MOTION VERY MUCH SO. UM, BUT IN LIGHT WITH THE, WITH THE, UH, FINDINGS THAT THE PORCH HAS BEEN MODIFIED AND ALSO WITH, I THINK THE THOUGHT OF ADDING THE COLUMN WOULD NOT BE DETRACTING OR MAKING IT FURTHER, UM, INTO A, A NON-CONTRIBUTING FACTOR. I THINK, UH, IF THAT PORCH WAS EVER OPENED UP, UM, YOU'LL FIND OUT, LIKE, UM, EVELYN SAID THAT THERE IS GONNA BE A COLUMN THERE ANYWAY. UH, SO I'LL BE NOT SUPPORTING THIS ON THE FA ON THE, UH, ON THE THOUGHT OF THERE WOULD'VE BEEN COLUMNS ACROSS THAT FRONT PORCH, PORCH AND, UH, THE ASYMMETRICAL APPROACH AFTER THE CALL THE PORCH HAS BEEN, HOW, HOW THE PORCH IS NOW EXISTING. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GONNA BE DETRACTING OR ADDING ANYTHING BEYOND UNNECESSARY. OKAY. ANYMORE COMMENTS BEFORE WE VOTE? JUST FOR MY KNOWLEDGE, FIRST BLUES HERE. UM, IF IT'S, UH, COMMISSIONER JIM, UH, . COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? YES. . COMMISSIONER ANDERSON. IF HIS MOTION, UH, DOESN'T PASS, UM, DOES EVERYTHING ON THIS ITEM? OH NO. WE HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION THAT PASSES. SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION. IF ONE FAILS, IT'LL BE A SECOND. LIKE I SAID, SOMETIMES WE'VE HAD THREE OR FOUR BEFORE WE GOT THERE. OKAY. VERY GOOD. GOTCHA. GOTCHA. OKAY. NO, WE'LL KEEP AT IT TILL WE HAVE A SUCCESSFUL MOTION NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES. I WAS LIKE, POINT VERY GOOD. SO SOMEONE ONLINE TRYING TO GET MY ATTENTION? NO, I THINK IT'S JUST NOISE. ALRIGHT, THEN I'M GONNA CALL FOR A VOTE ON THIS. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES. ALL THOSE OPPOSED TO THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY NO. NO. OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO DO A ROLL CALL. VOTE TO VERIFY WHAT HAPPENED THERE. DISTRICT ONE, COMMISSIONER CUMMINS? NO. DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY? NO. DISTRICT THREE COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? NO. I'M SORRY. NO. NO. OKAY. DISTRICT FOUR, COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? NO. UH, DISTRICT SIX. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA? NO. DISTRICT SEVEN COMMISSIONER SMITH? NO. DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER ZAKI? YES. UM, DISTRICT NINE. COMMISSIONER RENO? NO. DISTRICT 12 COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER? NO. DISTRICT 13 COMMISSIONER P. YES. DISTRICT, I'M SORRY. UH, DI UH, DISTRICT 14. COMMISSIONER HARPER? NO. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? YES. COMMISSIONER RES? NO. OKAY. IT, IT APPEARS THAT THIS MOTION HAS FAILED. DO WE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? NO. MOTION. COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER. I'M CHAIR IN THE MATTER OF C 7 3 11 NORTH CLINTON AVENUE. I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE REQUEST [02:20:01] SUBJECT TO STAFF RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER REEVES. YES. UH, CALL FOR THE VOTE ON THAT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES. AND YOU OPPOSED THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY NO. NO. OKAY. SOUNDED LIKE WE HAVE THE SAME, UH, I GUESS TO BE SAFE, WE HAVE TO DO A ROLL CALL AGAIN. MAKE IT, MAKE IT A NICE CLEAR RECORD. GO AHEAD, ELAINE. REMIND US OF OUR NAMES. OKAY. DISTRICT ONE COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. YES. YES. DISTRICT TWO. COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY? YES. DISTRICT THREE. COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? YES. DISTRICT FOUR. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? YES. DISTRICT SIX. COMMISSIONER HOSA? YES. DISTRICT SEVEN. COMMISSIONER SMITH? YES. DISTRICT EIGHT. COMMISSIONER RONANKI. DISTRICT NINE. COMMISSIONER RENO? YES. DISTRICT 12 COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER? YES. DISTRICT 13 COMMISSIONER PRE? NO. DISTRICT 14. COMMISSIONER HARPER? YES. UH, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? NO. COMMISSIONER RES? YES. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. IT APPEARS THAT THIS MOTION WAS SUCCESSFUL. SO, UM, MR. NORVIS, CONGRATULATIONS. YOU SEEM TO HAVE APPROVALS AND YOU MAY BEGIN YOUR WORK AND I HOPE YOU ENJOY IT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE. YOU TOO. OKAY. COURTESY REVIEW NUMBER ONE IS NEXT AND WE DO HAVE TWO SPEAKERS REGISTERED FOR THAT ONE. GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF COURTESY REVIEW ITEM CR ONE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 35 21 LATIMER STREET. IT'S IN QUEEN CITY, WHICH IS CURRENTLY UNDER PRE DESIGNATION MORATORIUM. THE CASE NUMBER IS COA DASH 25 DASH 4 71. THE REQUEST IS FOR OUR COURTESY REVIEW. THE APPLICANT'S DESIRE TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. SINCE THIS IS A COURTESY REVIEW, NO ACTION IS REQUIRED. SO IT'S THAT THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN AS WELL AS ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE TO BE SUBMITTED FOR LANDMARK COMMISSION REVIEW. TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION, COURTESY REVIEW COMMENTS ONLY SUPPORTIVE WITH THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS. NUMBER ONE, COVER REAR DOOR WITH A SHED ROOF. NUMBER TWO, ADD TRIM, NOT SIDING BETWEEN PAIRED GAINED WINDOWS. NUMBER THREE, SIDING SHOULD BE ALL WOOD, HORIZONTAL LAP SIDING, EITHER PATTERN 1 0 5 OR ONE 17. NUMBER FOUR, FRONT DOOR SHOULD BE PANELED. MINIMUM SIX PANELS WITH NO TOP LIGHTS. NUMBER FIVE, SLABS SHOULD BE RAISED OR PURE AND BEAM WITH A MINIMUM OF TWO STEPS LEADING TO PORCH. NUMBER SIX, PORCH FLOOR SHOULD BE TONGUE AND GROOVED. NUMBER SEVEN, WINDOWS SHOULD BE ALL ALUMINUM OR ALL WOOD, ONE OVER ONE. NUMBER EIGHT, DOORS TO REAR PATIO SHOULD BE, EXCUSE ME, DOORS TO REAR PATIO SHOULD BE FRENCH DOORS NOT SLIDING GLASS. NUMBER NINE, ROOF SHINGLE COLOR SHOULD NOT BE BLACK. NUMBER 10, SELECT PAINT COLORS FROM A HISTORIC PAINT PALETTE PERIOD. ARTS AND CRAFTS. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS REGISTERED. I DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST. ZACHARY TORRES AND ALEX JIMENEZ. WELL, YOU, YOU EACH GET TO HAVE YOUR THREE MINUTES IF YOU WANT. AND YOU HAVE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELVES AND SWEAR TO TELL ME THE TRUTH. SO , LET ME START WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOUR WHERE AFFIRMING YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH. YEAH. HELLO, I'M ZACHARY TORRES, UH, FOR, UH, ADDRESS 35 21 LADI STREET. AND OH, UH, PROPOSING A NEW CONSTRUCTION BUILDING. UH, [02:25:01] NO. AND . OH, AND I SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH. YES, I KNEW YOU WOULD. OKAY. I HEARD IT ALL DAY, SO I FORGOT. . YEAH, THANK YOU. YOU THINK IT SINK IN? THAT'S OKAY. YEAH, IT DOES GET NERVOUS OVER HERE WHEN YOU STAY ON THIS PAD. UH, YEAH. SO JUST PROPOSING A NEW CONSTRUCTION BUILDING, AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN, UH, WE DID TALK, UH, DID GET WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND, UH, THEY HELPED US KIND OF PUT A PLAN TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT APPROPRIATE. UM, AND WE JUST HOPE THAT YOU GUYS APPROVE THIS. UH, SO WE CONTINUE FORWARD ON THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THIS FOR DISTRICT. OKAY. WELL WE CAN'T APPROVE IT TODAY 'CAUSE YOU'RE IN A COURTESY REVIEW. OH YEAH, I'M SORRY. SO YOU'RE GETTING OUR FEEDBACK, THEN YOU HAVE TO COME BACK AND ACTUALLY APPLY FOR A CA EIGHT BEFORE WE CAN APPROVE IT. WE'LL JUST HAVE A NICE CONVERSATION IS THE MOST WE CAN DO FOR YOU TODAY. THAT'S GOOD. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO, UM, DOES MR. JIMENEZ WANT TO, OKAY. BUT IF YOU HA IF YOU NEED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, YOU HAVE TO DO THE SIGN IN AND TELL HIM THE TRUTH PART. OKAY. UH, I THINK HE SIGNED ME IN WITH THE, IN THE YELLOW FORM, RIGHT? YEAH. BUT NOW I JUST NEED YOU TO SAY YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND THAT YOU'RE TELLING, TELLING ME THE TRUTH. AAND EZ UH, I'M TELLING THE TRUTH. AND WHERE ARE YOU FROM? OH ZERO TWO JESSICA NEY, TEXAS. OKAY. . ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT QUESTIONS DOES THE COMMISSION HAVE ABOUT THIS PROPERTY? OR RATHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, INTERPRETATIONS OF WHAT CHANGES MIGHT BE NECESSARY TO MAKE IT BETTER CONFORM TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S HISTORIC NEEDS. I HAD ONE COMMENT THAT I THINK WE HAD MENTIONED THIS. I THIS IS YOUR SECOND TIME TO COME BEFORE US. IS THAT RIGHT? NO, FIRST. THE FIRST. OH, OKAY. IS IT SOMEHOW, I REMEMBER IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE WHEN WE HAVE HAD, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT WAY. UM, WELL, ONE THING I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT WAS THAT THE, THE WAY THAT THE DRIVEWAY, UM, IS INSTALLED, I, I MEAN I KNOW IT'S BECAUSE OF THE LIT WIDTH OF THE LOT THAT YOU COULDN'T DO A, A REAR ACCESS GARAGE AND BASICALLY ALL YOUR PARKING IS OUT IN THE FRONT. BUT, UM, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK EXACERBATES THE, YOU KNOW, THE SIZE OF THE DRIVEWAY IS THE FACT THAT IT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE PORCH. AND MAYBE IF YOU HELD IT BACK, SAY FIVE FEET OR SO, AND YOU ACTUALLY HAD SOME LANDSCAPE IN THE FRONT, IT WOULD HELP, UH, SOFTEN THE . YEAH, YEAH. WE'D BE, WE'D BE OPEN TO DO THAT. UM, THE VERY FIRST PLANS WE SENT THEM WERE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. BUT AFTER WE MET WITH RHONDA, UH, WE CHANGED THE PLANS THAT NEEDED TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR THIS CERTIFICATE. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? REMEMBER, THIS IS OUR CHANCE TO SAVE AND AGREE LATER IF THIS SOMETHING UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THE WAY IT'S BEEN PRESENTED. UM, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE WINDOWS GONNA BE? 'CAUSE I DO SEE THAT, UM, THE TASK FORCE SAID THEY NEED TO BE ALL ALUMINUM OR ALL WOOD. WE'RE GONNA DO ALUMINUM. YOU'RE GONNA DO ALL ALUMINUM ONE OVER ONES LIKE THEY RECOMMENDED. YES. AND WHAT ARE THE SHINGLES GONNA BE NOW? 'CAUSE THEY SAID NOT BE BLACK AND THAT IS PRETTY UNCOMMON FOR US. YEAH. YEAH. WE WERE GONNA, I THINK WE'RE GONNA DO IT IN DARK BROWN. OKAY. UH, JUST, JUST A HINT. WEATHERED WOOD IS OUR FAVORITE . OKAY. BECAUSE IT MIMIC MAKES WHEN PEOPLE USED TO HAVE WOOD. YEAH. WE'RE GONNA DO WEATHER WOOD. AND THEN ALSO ANOTHER THING THAT POINTED OUT WITH SIDING, WE'RE GONNA DO 1 0 5 ON THAT. OKAY. YEAH. AND YOU'LL HAVE, YOU'LL WANT TO TELL US ALL THOSE FOR SURE WHEN YOU DO YOUR REAL APPLICATION OKAY. TO GET YOUR APPROVAL SO THAT OTHERWISE WE'LL ASK YOU AGAIN AND TELL WHAT IT IN. SO WHY, WHY BOTHER WITH THAT? OKAY. SO HAVE, DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THE TASK FORCES RECOMMENDATIONS? NO, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM. I MEAN, THEY, UH, THEY TOLD US WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE, SO WE'RE OKAY WITH DOING THAT. AND YOU'LL, YOU'LL BE MEETING ALL OF THEM? YEAH. OKAY. YES. WELL THAT SHOULD TAKE YOU A LONG WAY TOWARDS HAVING, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT PICKED UP. YEAH. SO IS THERE ANYONE AT HOME WHO HAS A COMMENT THEY'D LIKE TO SHARE OF ADVICE FOR THIS GENTLEMAN AND ANYBODY HERE? BECAUSE THEY WAITED A LONG TIME TO NOT GET MUCH OF OUR VA VALUABLE ATTENTION AS IT'S . OKAY. WELL I GUESS THAT, OKAY. GOOD. SAY SOMETHING . NO, I JUST HAD A QUESTION ON THE HEIGHT OF THE HOUSE AND IT, HOW IT COMPARES TO THE NEIGHBORING ONES. UH, USUALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE'LL BE A DRAWING OR SOMETHING, UM, SHOWING THE NEIGHBORING HOUSES AND HOW THE, THE HEIGHTS DIFFER. UM, AND STEPH COULD SEND YOU AN EXAMPLE OF THAT SORT OF, SO WE, WE USE THAT SO WE CAN SEE HOW IT'LL FIT INTO THE STREETSCAPE. YEAH. OUR OF THE PLAN OVERALL HEIGHTS, THAT'S GONNA BE JUST UNDER 18 FEET TO THE TOP. TO THE PEAK. YEAH. OF THE ROOT. YES. OKAY. YEAH. SO WE COULD, WE COULD HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW THAT WORKS WITH THE NEIGHBORING HOUSES. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. OKAY. YEAH, WE, WE'LL MAKE SURE TO INCLUDE THIS IN, UH, MAY. I GUESS MY OTHER, UH, COMMENT WOULD BE THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT, UM, UNDER THE PORCH. YOU'VE GOT THE, THE DOUBLE GANGED WINDOW IN, IN THE, THE GANGED WINDOW IN THE BEDROOM. I MEAN, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE ANOTHER SET OF WINDOWS THERE, BUT I, I SEE THAT'S THE CLOSET. LOOKS LIKE WHAT? EITHER [02:30:01] OVER THERE. UH, WHICH WOULD PRESENT SOME PROBLEMS WITH, UM, ADDING ADDITIONAL, AN ADDITIONAL WINDOW, YOU KNOW. BUT IF ONE COULD BE ADDED IN THE CLOSET, THEN YOU HAVE LIGHT WHEN THERE'S A POWER FAILURE. SO , I HAVE LIGHT, I HAVE TWO WINDOWS IN MY CLOSET AND, AND A POWER FAILURE I HAVE LIGHTS. COULD HELP. ARE YOU STILL THINKING? NO, I'M NOT THINKING. I'M JUST, YOU'RE DONE THINKING. OKAY. , COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS, UH, COUPLE OF COMMENTS. I HAVE A LITTLE CONCERN WITH THE SPACE THAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT THERE AT THE FRONT, UH, BETWEEN THE DOOR AND THE GANG OF TWO WINDOWS ON THE PORCH. UM, IT SEEMS A LITTLE BIT ODD. UM, BUT I WAS ALSO GOING TO JUST ACTUALLY ASK OF, AND MAYBE YOU HAVE THEM ON ANOTHER ELEVATION I HAVEN'T NOTICED. I WOULD ADD A COUPLE OF DIMENSION STRINGS HERE AND THERE TO, FOR THE ROOF OVERHANG DIMENSION, I WOULD DO A DIMENSION ON YOUR, UH, SEAL HEIGHT OF THE WINDOW. I DO A DIMENSION ON YOUR COLUMN WIDTH, THAT THAT MAY BE CALLED OUT SOMEWHERE. AND I DO A DIMENSION ON YOUR TOP OF YOUR RAILING MINIMUM. SO JUST A FEW DIMENSIONS HERE AND THERE JUST SO WE CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARLY WHAT, WHAT THESE UH, DIMENSIONAL ASPECTS ARE. ALRIGHT. IS THAT COMMISSIONER REED, IT LOOKS LIKE THE FOUNDATION IS SITTING ON THE GROUND. IS IT GONNA BE RAISED? IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S SITTING ON THE GROUND, YOU'RE SAYING? YES. AND ONE OF THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS WAS IT NEEDS TO BE RAISED UP OR BE HERE AND BEAM TO LOOK LIKE THE OLD PAUL FOUNDATIONS THAT YOU SEE. YES. SEE THERE. AND THEY'VE SAID THEY'RE GONNA DO WHAT TASKFORCE SAID. YEAH. YEAH. WE, WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. WE HAVE A RECORDING OF YOU SAYING THAT BY THE WAY, . OKAY. EVEN ON VIDEO SAYING IT, SO. OKAY, GREAT. THAT MAKES IT VERY REAL. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT THEM TO KNOW BEFORE THEY COME BACK? HOPING TO GET AN APPROVAL ON THE DAY THEY COME BACK. ALL RIGHT THEN. THANKS FOR COMING BY. COURTESY REVIEW IS A VERY GOOD IDEA. SORRY WE PUT ON SUCH A SHOW, BUT I HOPE YOU ENJOYED ASPECTS OF IT, . OKAY. AWESOME. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE A BYE-BYE. OKAY, COURTESY REVIEW TOO. OKAY, GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN, THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING COURTESY REVIEW ITEM TWO. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 29 37 WARREN AVENUE. IT'S IN THE WHEATLEY PLACE, HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE CASE NUMBER IS COA DASH 25 DASH 5 51. THE REQUEST IS FOR A COURTESY REVIEW. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT STAFF RECOMMENDATION. SINCE THIS IS A COURTESY REVIEW, NO ACTION IS REQUIRED. SO IT'S THAT THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN AS WELL AS ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE TO BE SUBMITTED FOR LANDMARK PERMISSION REVIEW, TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION, COURTESY REVIEW COMMENTS ONLY SUPPORTIVE WITH THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS. NUMBER ONE, CHECK CURRENT ZONING LOT, MAYBE COMMERCIAL NUMBER TWO, NO SHOTGUN STYLE. THERE IS ONLY ONE SHOTGUN STYLE HOUSE IN WHEATLEY PLAZA. NUMBER THREE, SWITCH REAR MASTER BEDROOM CONFIGURATION TO ALLOW WINDOWS ON REAR ELEVATION. ALRIGHT, AND WE DO HAVE ONE REGISTERED SPEAKER AND I BELIEVE THIS IS THE ONE WHERE OUR CITY ATTORNEY IS GOING TO GET BACK TO US WITH THE ISSUE OF THE, UM, FLAPPING CORRECT. SO, UM, I GUESS WE'LL GO AHEAD AND HEAR FROM YOU FIRST ON THAT. CERTAINLY. SO UNFORTUNATELY, UH, IT'S JUST NOT IN THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION TO REPL OR REMAIN SOMETHING BACK TO CBC. UM, YOU GUYS HAD, UH, EUROPEAN PURVIEW, WHICH IS, UH, AS YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH, CBC IS THE ONE THAT DEALS WITH, UH, PLAT PLAT SIDE. SO UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU GUYS CAN, UH, COMMENT ON, I SUPPOSE YOU CAN COMMENT ON, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY DECISIONS ON IT OR, UH, SEND IT BACK TO THEM AND EVERYTHING. BUT IF WE BELIEVE THIS IS AN ADVERSE EFFECT OF SOME SORT, WE CAN CERTAINLY RULE AGAINST, UH, WE HAVE PURVIEW OVER THE DESIGN OF THE HOUSE, RIGHT? YES. ALRIGHT, WELL NOW PASCAL MOCA MUST BE WORRIED BECAUSE HE HEARS US TALKING TO AN ATTORNEY. BUT YOU ARE OUR SPEAKER. PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND YOUR PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. PAAL MOJICA 24 0 4 WOODLAWN DRIVE. AND IT'S TEXAS 7 5 1 1 9. AND I PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY, SIR, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO TELL US WHAT YOU, YOU NEED, WHAT YOU THINK THAT WOULD HELP BE HELPFUL FOR US TO KNOW FURTHER AND THEN WE'LL ASK YOU QUESTIONS. WELL, IT'S JUST, UM, IT'S NOT YOUR TRADITIONAL INFIELD LOT. UM, IT IS SHOWING LIKE IT'S FLAT A 25 FOOT WIDE LOT. [02:35:01] AND THE REASON WHY WE HAVE THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE THAT WE HAVE, WE HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH, UH, DR. DUNN. UH, WE TALKED ABOUT CRAFTSMAN STYLE, WE TALKED ABOUT SHOTGUN HOME, UM, 'CAUSE THERE WAS ONE, UM, CLOSE BY IN THE AREA, BUT THEN IT CAME BACK TO WHERE WE NEEDED TO COME UP WITH DIFFERENT STYLES. SO WE, WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH, UH, QUITE A FEW TIMES WITH DR. DUNN AND HER TEAM'S RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, AND THIS IS WHERE WE COME TO RIGHT NOW, UH, THE CROSS POINT WHERE WE'RE AT. UM, I'D SAY MORE OF LIKE A BUNGALOW STYLE. IT'S A HIDDEN SECOND FLOOR. UM, NOT SHOWN ON THE FRONT OR THE REAR, BUT UH, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE COME UP WITH JUST BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE LANDMARK. UM, DR. DUN AND HER TEAM. ALL RIGHTY. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, BUNGALOW OR SOMETHING IS A STYLE, HOW IT'S DECORATED? SHOTGUN IS A FORM AND YES MA'AM. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE WRONG IN THINKING IT LOOKS LIKE A SHOTGUN FORM. OKAY. SO QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM MR. REEDS? WAS IT ORIGINALLY ONE LOT WHEN YOU BOUGHT IT? IT WAS ORIGINALLY ONE LOT AT SOME POINT IN TIME. UM, WE BOUGHT IT. UM, WE RECEIVED THE PLA AND THE SURVEY SHOWING THAT AS TWO LOTS. SO THAT WAS THE REASONING OF DIVID THAT OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING TO MAXIMIZE, UH, PROFIT ON THE PROPERTY. UM, SO IF IT'S PLANTED AS TWO LOTS, WE'RE LOOKING TO PUT TWO LOTS. WELL THEN I CAN'T ASK YOU WHY YOU DID THAT . NO, WELL YOU CAN ASK HIM, BUT HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWER TO . I THOUGHT STAFF SAID IT WAS REPLANTED RECENTLY. RIGHT? THAT WAS MY QUESTION TOO. DID YOU REPLANT THIS OR, OR DID YOU WE DID NOT REPLANT THIS. WE PURCHASED IT THAT WAY. OKAY. UM, WHAT'S THE YEAR ON THE REPL? HE'S THE OWNER. I'M NOT THE OWNER. OKAY. SO THAT, THAT'S THE WAY THEY PURCHASED. UM, IT'S ALL, THERE'S AN OWNER, I'M THE APPLICANT, THERE'S AN OWNER, THERE'S A, UM, ACTUAL CONTRACTOR BUILDING FOR THE OWNER AND I'M THE REPRESENTATIVE FOR EVERYONE. OKAY. SO FOR CLARITY THERE, THERE IS AN OPTION FOR DEVELOPER TO ACTUALLY BUILD A HOUSE ON THE FULL LOT, RIGHT? THAT, THAT FINANCIALS HISTORIC, IF THAT'S WHAT UH, YOU GUYS ARE RECOMMENDING TO GO BACK TO ONE LOT. DEFINITELY. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I GO BACK CLOSE TO THE OWNER, UM, THAT YOU GUYS WANTED TO SHOW AS ONE LOT, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT A LOT EASIER DESIGNED. UM, TO MATCH THE, THE AREA, AGAIN, IT'S NOT YOUR NORMAL INFIELD LOT. UM, YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF THESE LOT SIZES IN THIS AREA. IT'S MORE LIKE IN THE FAIR PARK AREA WHERE YOU HAVE ALMOST A WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD FULL OF THEM. UM, 25 FOOT WIDE LOTS. I'M PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THEM AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE DISCUSSED WITH UH, DR. DUNN AND HER TEAM, UH, VARIOUS AMOUNT OF TIMES OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS. UM, BUT WE'RE HERE FOR YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, EVEN WITH THE SKINNY LOT THAT WE HAVE AT 25 FOOT WIDE LOTS, UM, WE'RE HERE TO SEE A RECOMMENDATION ON IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS, UM, RECOMMEND OR IS THERE A CERTAIN STYLE THAT YOU WOULD RECOMMEND US TO TRY TO FIT INTO THERE? UM, AGAIN, WE'VE TAKEN A LOT OF RECOMMENDATIONS WITH THE HEIGHT, THE STYLES AND TRY TO FIT IT INTO THIS DESIGN, UH, WHAT YOU'VE SEEN GOING BE NOW. SO THIS, THIS MIGHT BE GETTING INTO THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT AND I'M SORRY, UH, TEAM, BUT I JUST WANNA NOTE, SO WHEN YOU GUYS PURCHASED THIS LOT, DID YOU GUYS PURCHASE IT AT AS ONE? THEY PURCHASED IT AS ONE WITH THE INTENT TO BUILD TWO HOUSES. OKAY, GOTCHA. MR. CUMMINGS OR I HAD A QUESTION JUST FOR QUICK THE STAFF. THERE IS NO HISTORIC EVIDENCE THAT THIS WAS TWO LOTS FOR, I MEAN THAT THERE WASN'T ORIGINALLY TWO SHOTGUNS ON THIS HISTORICALLY YEARS AGO. THERE'S, WE HAVE SOME ACCURACY ON WHEN THIS WAS LADDERED. NOT REALLY, BECAUSE THE REASON WHY I ASKED WAS HE THE OWNER IS BECAUSE THE PERSON WHO SPOKE TO ME ABOUT IT SAID IT WAS ONE LOT AND IT WAS A COMMERCIAL LOT WITH A LAUNDROMAT ON IT. THE LAUNDROMAT CLOSED WITHIN THE LAST SO MANY YEARS. THEY BOUGHT THE LOT AND HE'S TOLD ME THEY REPLANTED IT FROM A 50 FOOT LOT TO TWO 20 FIVES. AND IS THERE A SANBORN OR ANYTHING THAT WILL HELP SHOW THIS THAT I JUST DON'T, I WE'RE ALL KIND OF GOING TO THAT SAME DIRECTION OF LIKE, WELL IF IT'S BEEN REPLANTED THEN WE NEED TO GO BACK TO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FULL 50, YOU KNOW, THE PLAT. BUT ALSO I DON'T WANNA MAKE A MISTAKE IF SOMETHING WAS MAKING IT KINDA WACKY THAT IT MAY HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN TWO SHOTGUN HOUSES OR, OR SOMETHING OF THE SORT ON THERE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT'S, THERE'S EVIDENCE OF THAT AND IT'S A SLAM DUNK ON KNOWING WHEN IT WAS REPLIED AND, AND IT HASN'T BEEN GOING OVER THE YEARS GOING BACK AND FORTH OR, OR SOMETHING WEIRD. I THINK MARCUS IS GETTING READY TO LOOK THAT UP, THAT AREA THERE ARE OF THAT AREA, BUT I'M NOT QUITE SURE OF THIS PARTICULAR LOT. OR IS THERE ANY HISTORY OF RECORDS OF PLATTING UM, [02:40:01] THAT GOES BACK A LITTLE FURTHER THAN RECENT PLATTING? WE WOULD HAVE TO DO MORE. YEAH, IT ACTUALLY, IT LOOKS LIKE AT SOME POINT THEY WERE SMALLER LOTS IN THAT REGION. WHEN YOU LOOK AT, IT'S NOT A DEFINITIVE SOURCE WITH DALLAS COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT TO SHOW THE OLD SURVEY DATA AND SHOWS TWO LOTS BEING THERE WITH THE DASH LINE GONE AND IT'S NOW UNDER ONE SINGLE OWNERSHIP. AND THE STREET IS WHERE THE ONE SHOTGUN HOUSE IS THE OR NO, CLOSE THE STREET CLOSE. YEAH, BOTH. YEAH. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT THINKING LIKE, OH, OKAY, WELL THIS, WE'RE TRYING TO DO THIS BUT WE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE UNDOING SOMETHING THAT WAS HISTORICALLY A TWO LOTS THAT MAYBE IT'S A CELEBRATION OF TWO SHOTGUN HOUSES. IF THERE WAS A, IF IT WAS ALWAYS TWO LOTS THERE. I DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST KIND OF THROWING THAT OUT THERE FOR US TO CONSIDER AND THINK AND TO RE AND TO REHEARSE RESEARCH NOT CUTTING YOU OFF, JUST MAKING SURE SHE KNOWS I SAW HER. I'M JUST CURIOUS, UH, WHY, WHY, WELL, WONDERING WHETHER IT'S ZONE COMMERCIAL AND SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY ON THE TASK FORCE SAID THEY THOUGHT IT WAS, MAY HAVE BEEN COMMERCIAL 'CAUSE OF THE LAWN PROVIDER BECAUSE IT WAS A LAUNDROMAT PRIOR TO THIS OWNERSHIP. THE CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP DOESN'T CHANGE. COMMERCIAL DID. NO, NO, I'M, I KNOW THAT BUT WHAT I'M SAYING THE PERSON WHO HAD IT BEFORE THE LOT WAS USED OR THE FUNCTION OF IT WAS A LAUNDROMAT WITH A PARKING LOT. DID ANYONE CHECK THE ZONING? I DID. I MEAN IF IT , THANK YOU FOR THAT. IF IT ZONE, IF IT IS ZONE COMMERCIAL THEN THEY MIGHT HAVE TO GET A ZONING CHANGE. UM, SO THE ZONING UH, WOULD BE ON YOUR CASE REPORT. LET'S SEE. WELL THAT'S JUST PD 5 95 ON MY CASE REPORT. YEAH, BUT NOT ON THIS SPECIFIC LOT. AND A LOT OF TIMES, DEPENDING ON HOW THE ZONING WAS WRITTEN ORIGINALLY, IT WOULD'VE ALLOWED FOR MULTIPLE USES, NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL. SO IT WOULDN'T HAVE RULED OUT, YOU KNOW, ANY, UH, PARTICULARLY ON A CORNER LIKE THIS. I MEAN IT WAS KIND OF TYPICAL OF THAT TIME TOO TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE RESIDENT OR ONE LITTLE RETAIL SHOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THE CORNER. I GENERALLY PUT A LOT OF CREDENCE IN THE TASK FORCE 'CAUSE THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE AND THEY KIND OF SEND IN BIG LETTERS. WE DON'T WANT ANY SHOTGUN HOUSES. BUT BY DEFAULT, IF YOU HAVE 2 25 FOOT LOTS, NOTHING YOU PUT THERE IS GONNA TURN INTO A SHOTGUN HOUSE AND IT TAKE, IF YOU PUT TWO SEPARATE HOUSES, IS THERE AN OPTION TO PUT A DUPLEX ON AND THEN YOU STILL GET TWO LIVING UNITS. BUT THEY, YOU COULD MAKE THE TWO LIVING UNITS LOOK LIKE ONE BUNGALOW. DEFINITELY. IF, UH, YOU, UH, MOTION TOWARDS DUPLEX, UM, A THOUSAND THOUSAND ALLOWED, WE GET A LOT MORE SPACE BACK. UM, AGAIN, RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT WITH FIVE FOOT, UH, SETBACK FROM EACH SIDE. SO IF WE HAD A DUPLEX, WE WE GAINED FIVE FEET TO EACH UNIT, WHICH WOULD BE A LOT EASIER TO DESIGN A 20 FOOT, UH, WIDE UNIT AND WOULD BE BETTER FOR THE MARKET. UM, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER JUST IN GENERAL FOR THE AREA, UH, TO ALLOW DUPLEX AND ALLOW US TO BUILD IT TO THE . YEAH, I'M SURE, I'M SURE THAT SOMEONE'S GONNA COME WITH A NEGATIVE TO THE DUPLEX IDEA 'CAUSE THEY ALWAYS DO WANNA HAVE AN IDEA, BUT IT WOULD SOLVE YOUR, THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOESN'T WANT SHOTGUN STYLE HOUSES. MM-HMM . AND THERE, THERE ARE CERTAIN ISTIC IDEAS CONNECTED WITH SHOTGUN STYLE HOUSES THAT MAKE SOME PEOPLE NOT LIKE WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT A NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. BUT OTHER PEOPLE GET TO HAVE THEIR VIEWS, UM, THEIR FEELINGS, THEIR EMOTIONAL REACTION TO IT. AND A SHOTGUN HOUSE IS NOT THE MOST LIVABLE SPACE BY MODERN STANDARDS ON EARTH. SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT THAT IT USED TO HAVE THEM AND, AND HE'S, HE'S LOOKING, HE SEES SOMETHING. I ALSO WANTED TO ADD, UM, THAT, UH, CR WHICH ONE ARE WE LOOKING AT? CR TWO AND THREE ARE THE IDENTICAL HOUSES JUST NEXT TO EACH OTHER. ON, ON THE TWO SPLIT LOTS. AND THAT'S PRETTY ODD. OKAY. BASED ON WHAT DID YOU DISCOVER MARCUS? HANG ON IT. IT APPEARS THAT IN 1920, THE LOT, IT WAS ONE LOT BUT IT HAD A DUPLEX . I THINK THAT'S YOUR ANSWER. YEAH, I'M A PSYCHIC. . . WELL, SINCE THIS IS HISTORIC PRESERVATION, IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO GO BACK WITH WHAT WAS THERE INSTEAD OF CREATING SOMETHING THAT NOBODY REALLY WANTS. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE PERHAPS THE OWNERS AREN'T GONNA BE UPSET ABOUT THIS SUGGESTION. NO, WE, WE PREFER DUPLEX. UH, THAT WAS THE REALLY THE REALISTIC POINT OF TRYING TO GET TO A DUPLEX AND WE WERE TOLD IT WAS NOT ALLOWED EVEN THOUGH THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT HAS A BUNCH OF SUBDISTRICTS AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UM, ZONING REQUIREMENTS [02:45:01] THAT ARE ALLOWED. SO AGAIN, DUPLEX IS SOMETHING WE CAN GO BACK TO. IT BENEFITS US IN THE LONG RUN. UM, 'CAUSE WE COULD PUT A BIGGER, UH, MORE APPEALING PROPERTY, UH, FOR THE, FOR THE ACTUAL AREA THERE. OKAY. ANOTHER COMMENT AS YOU GO BACK AND THINK ABOUT THAT, IF YOU FIND IT NECESSARY TO HAVE A SECOND FLOOR TO MAKE THE UNITS BIG ENOUGH, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF EFFORT TO DO A LOT OF THAT HERE IN QUEEN CITY AND WE, WE ARE NOT SURE THAT IT REALLY FITS, BUT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO TRY TO GET A SECOND LEVEL THROUGH, IT NEEDS TO BE PUSHED TO THE BACK AND YOU NEED TO MAKE, CONSTRUCT THE ROOF IN A WAY THAT IT'S AS SHORT AS CAN BE. LIKE WITH DORMERS, LIKE YOU SHOW HERE, WE WANT IT TO BE THE LOWEST SECOND FLOOR YOU COULD COME UP WITH. SO JUST TELL YOUR DESIGNERS THAT THAT WILL BE MORE LIKELY TO APPEAL TO US OR JUST DO IT SINGLE FLOOR. WELL, I WAS GONNA SAY THAT, BUT I FIGURED THEY'D SAY THEY WANT FOUR BEDROOMS ON EACH ONE. THE ORIGINAL IDEA WAS TO HAVE A ONE STORY. UM, WHEN WE GOT CUT ON SPACE DUE TO THE LOT SIZE AND THE SETBACKS AND EVERYTHING, WE HAD TO GO UP TWO STORIES. THE SECOND FLOOR ONLY HAS TWO BEDROOMS. UM, WHICH WE, WE HAD ONE, ONE OF THE BEDROOMS ACTUALLY DOWNSTAIRS, SO WE ONLY HAD ONE BEDROOM, UH, FROM THE BEGINNING ON THE SECOND FLOOR. BUT IF WE CAN FIT IT ALL ON FIRST FLOOR, DEFINITELY. UM, ALSO SAME THING. IT'S SAVING MONEY AND THEN OF COURSE, UM, IT'S GONNA BE ABLE TO FIT THAT PROPERTY AND THE DESIGN, UH, THAT YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR ON THAT, FOR THE RECOMMENDATION. THAT WOULD BE GREAT AND MUCH EASIER TO SEE IS COMPATIBLE WITH WHAT'S, WELL THE DESIGN KIND OF SHOWS A STORY IN A HALF AND THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IF THEY MADE THE BIG, THE BUILDING LARGER, A DUPLEX, THE STORY AND A HALF WITH CONVERTED ATTIC SPACE WOULD BE FINE BECAUSE THEY, THEY'RE, AND THEY GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION I THINK. OKAY. BUT I JUST, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALWAYS, YOU'VE ALWAYS SAID ACTUALLY, IT'S USUALLY YOU WHO SAYS MAKE IT SHORT LOOKING. THE SECOND STORY DON'T HAVE A BIG NO, BUT, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE SHOWING SOME APPROPRIATE SIZED DORMERS ON THERE. YEAH, I SAID HE LIKED DORMERS LIKE THAT. SO I MEAN THEY'RE, WHAT THEY HAVE THERE IS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR STARTING OUT. YEAH, WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, BUT IF YOU CAN GET ALL IN ONE STORY, THAT'S EVEN BETTER BECAUSE THAT JUST PERFECTLY FITS IN WITH THE WHAT'S COMING. AND I, I DIDN'T DESIGN THIS ONE. UH, WE DO THE DESIGNS, UH, FOR, FOR OTHER CLIENTS THROUGHOUT CITY OF DALLAS. UM, I'VE RECOMMENDED TO THE DESIGNER, UM, JUST KIND OF BASED ON WHAT WE HAD AND WHAT WAS BEING RECOMMENDED, UM, BY DR. DUNN'S TEAM, UM, WHERE WE NEED TO GO WITH IT. BUT AGAIN, UH, WE HAVE, I THINK WE HAVE A EASIER AND BETTER OPTION IF IT IS ALLOWED TO BE A DUPLEX AND IT WAS INTENDED TO BE A AT FINISH OUT FOR ANOTHER BEDROOM COMMISSIONER, . WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY RULING ON ANYTHING. WE'RE JUST SUGGESTING THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY CAN BUILD A DUPLEX FIVE BOX, BUT EXCEPT COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER HAS AN OPINION INFORMED. THAT WAS MY QUESTION. THAT WELL THERE YOU WILL NEED TO GO THROUGH A, UH, A PRELIMINARY, PRELIMINARY, UH, REVIEW ANYWAY WITH ZONING AND YOU'LL FIND OUT THEN WHAT CAMPAIGN. BUT WE CAN ONLY MAKE THE SUGGESTION OF WHAT'S BEST FOR US TO MOST LIKELY TO GET OUR APPROVAL SINCE WE HAVE NOT FOUND EVIDENCE OF TWO SHOTGUN HOUSES BEING ORIGINAL TO THE SITE. DO YOU WANT US TO COMMENT ON WHETHER, IF YOU HAD TO KEEP IT THIS WAY, THESE ARE THE SHOTGUN HOUSES. UM, YEAH, WE'RE HERE. UM, SEE WHY NOT IF WE KEPT IT THIS WAY, UM, WHERE COULD WE GET TO, TO GIVE APPROVAL AGAIN, WE DID TRY TO SHORTEN UP THAT SECOND FLOOR. IT IS UNDER THE 19 FEET, UM, HEIGHT, WHICH IS IN THE AREA. UM, THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION FROM DR. STEIN TO TRY TO GET THEM UNDER 19 FEET HIGH AND WE TRY TO DO AT FINISH OUT. SO WE TRY TO SHORTEN THAT SECOND FLOOR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. ANYBODY HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS IF THEY NEED TO STICK WITH THESE TWO SHOTGUN HOUSES? YEAH, YOU NEED TO DOUBLE CHECK YOUR, YOUR HEAD HEIGHT, UM, ON THAT QUARTER ON THE OUTSIDE BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE, IT'S PROBABLY ONLY ABOUT BETWEEN FOUR AND FIVE FEET. UM, I, I KNOW THERE WASN'T A DIMENSION ON THAT PLATE HEIGHT. UM, BUT THE WAY THAT THE STAIR COMES AND THE QUARTERS TO ONE SIDE OF IT, YOU, YOU'LL HAVE TO CRAWL. YEAH, I HAVE A COMMENT ALSO. THE FRONT PORCH IS A LITTLE BIT WEAK. UM, I THINK IF THEY DID A, WELL THERE'S THIS, THERE'S MISSING A HEADER IN THERE, BUT ALSO THE FRONT PORCH, IF YOU HAD A DIFFERENT TYPE OF MACHINE MAYBE UM, A SHINGLES OR SOMETHING IN THE GABLE END, IT JUST SEEMS TO BE PRETTY LACKLUSTER. BUT THIS ALL KIND OF BLENDS TOGETHER. THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. EVEN IF YOU'RE GONNA DO A A ANOTHER NEW CONSTRUCTION TO DUPLEX. THE PORCH NEEDS TO BE MORE DEFINED. RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? WINDOWS ARE ACCEPTABLE AS SHOWN WINDOWS ARE MADE OF WHAT? WOOD? WOOD? WOOD. ONE OVER WOOD. WE LOVE WOOD WINDOWS. REAL WOOD WINDOWS OR CLA WOOD WINDOWS. WOOD WINDOWS. OKAY, GREAT. YOU, YOU STUDIED, DIDN'T YOU YOU KNEW WHAT WE SAID. ARE [02:50:01] WE DISCUSSING 29 41 AT THE SAME TIME NOW OR NO, BUT WE'RE GONNA ASK AFTER WE DISCUSS THIS. IF, IF WE NEED TO MAKE BOTH COMMENTS ON THE OTHER ONE , IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO, TO MAKE IT ONE WANT? WE, WE HAVE NO POWER TO DO THAT. BUT YOU ARE FREE WHEN YOU GO ASK SOMEBODY ELSE TO THAT. WE SAID IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE EASY TO GET THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION APPROVAL PROCESS'S ONE WANT. THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO. AND THAT WAS OUR PRETTY MUCH A STRONG RECOMMENDATION. WE PREFER ONE STRUCTURE ON THE LOT. YEAH, THAT COULD BE COMPLEX. THAT'S WHAT TELL US THAT WE'D LIKE, WE'D LIKE THAT. BUT YES, THEY, THEY DO RE PLATTING. WE HAVE JUST LEARNED FOR SURE WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER PLATING BIGGER OR SMALLER AND WHATEVER. BUT IF IT'S, I DO HAVE A SERIOUS CONCERN THAT THE CITY PLANT MICHIGAN RE REPLANT A LOT IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE AND WE GET STUCK WITH IT. UH, THEN I KNOW THIS IS THE BIG ASK, BUT MAYBE WHEN THEY'RE REPLANTING IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, THEY SHOULD INFORM US FIRST 'CAUSE THEY COULD ACTUALLY MAKE A 150 FOOT LOT SOMEWHERE THAT, FIRST OF ALL, REPLANTING YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO REPL TO THE LOT SIZE THAT'S TYPICAL TO THE DISTRICT OR TO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. IF THERE'S NO 25 FOOT LOTS IN THIS DISTRICT, THEN I'M A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED THAT CITY PLANNING COMMISSION MADE A MISTAKE AND WE'RE STUCK WITH IT. SO I KNOW WE DON'T DO REPLANTING, BUT IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IF THE REPLANTING IN AN HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE DON'T WANNA GET STUCK WITH ANOTHER ONES AND MAYBE WE SHOULD LET THEM KNOW THAT. BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN TELL. I MEAN THIS IS A UNIQUE SCENARIO THAT IS A VACANT LOT. SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE GONNA ALLOW, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE GONNA SUBDIVIDE A A LOT WITH A HISTORIC HOME ON IT 'CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE PERMISSIBLE. UM, THEY'RE GONNA SUBDIVIDE THE LOT BASED ON THE ZONING PERIOD. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHARACTER. YOU KNOW, THIS IS A ZONING MATTER AND IT IS SEPARATE. UM, I'M GONNA MAKE, I'M MAKE A WAGER. I I WISH WE HAD THE PLAT SO WE COULD PUT THIS TO BED AND STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. IT'S MY GUESS THAT IT'S SHOWING AN OLD REFERENCE TO AN OLD SURVEY ON THAT FLAT AND THAT IT IS ONE LOT. I'M GONNA MAKE THAT GUESS HERE 'CAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT. BUT, UH, ANYWAY, AND AGAIN IN FAIR PARK, UM, IT, IT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, UH, TWO, THREE YEARS WHERE UM, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BUYING LOTS IN FAIR PARK WHERE THEIR STANDARD 50 FOOT WIDE LOT AND THEN THEY END UP FINDING A PLAT THAT WAS HAD EXCHANGED AND COME TO FIND OUT IT HAS THAT DOTTED LINE RUNNING UP IT AND IT ACTUALLY WAS DIVIDED TWO AT SOME POINT IN TIME. SO PEOPLE WERE BUYING ONE LOT AT 60,000. YOU COME BACK, YOU END UP HAVING TWO LOTS. SO THEN YOU KNOW IT'S MORE MONEY FOR UM, WHAT YOU, WHICH YOU PAID FOR. AND DEFINITELY, UH, EVERYONE AS FAR AS A BUILDER DEVELOPER, UM, THEY'RE ALWAYS LOOKING TO MAXIMIZE PROFIT. SO THAT AREA IN FAIR PARK, IT'S ROUGHLY ABOUT THREE STREETS. UM, BUT THAT'S WHERE YOU SEE ALL THOSE SHOTGUN STYLE HOMES AND THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THAT COMES FROM. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR THOSE LOTS AND THEY'RE DIFFICULT TO FIND. UH, THEY'RE NOT EASY. IT EASY EVERYBODY TO BE DOING IT. THEY'RE DIFFICULT TO FIND AND PEOPLE THEY SAY ARE HITTING HOME RUNS ONCE THEY FIND THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE ABLE TO, UH, BUILD TWO, TWO HOUSES OUT OF ONE ONE LOT. WELL WE, A LOT OF STUFF AROUND FAIR PARK IS NOT YET IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT THIS IS SO, OKAY, WHAT I SAW MY EVERYBODY ELSE THAT NEED TO IS JIM'S ON, I CAN'T SEE IF IT'S LIZ OR NOT. YEAH, IT'S LOUIE IT LOUIS'S CARD THAT'S OBSTRUCTING MY VIEW. I'LL SCOOCH IT OVER. OKAY. HE, HE'S OVER THERE TO REARRANGE THE ROOM TO MY LIKING. OKAY. NO, I CAN'T SEE A THING STILL. NO, IT'S STILL RIGHT IN MY VIEW. IT MAY NOT BE YOUR VIEW. SORRY, THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. WHILE WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT NOW, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION BUT WE'RE, I WOULD SHOW A FEW MORE DIMENSIONS ON YOUR ELEVATIONS. GIVE US SOME DIMENSIONS ON SEAL HEIGHTS AND UM, OVERHANG HEIGHTS AND JUST SOME DIMENSIONS THAT MIGHT BE MISSING THAT YOU MIGHT BE, YOU COULD TAKE A LOOK AT. THANK DEFINITELY I RECOMMENDED TO THE DESIGNER, UM, TO PROVIDE MORE DIMENSIONS. AGAIN, UH, FROM MY PLAN DESIGN WE DO PROVIDE, UM, I SAY OVER DIMENSION PLANS, UM, BUT DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDED. UM, THIS IS REALLY JUST TO GET AN IDEA IF THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WOULD MOVE FORWARD OR APPROVE. UM, AGAIN, WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH DR. BEN A COUPLE OF TIMES, A COUPLE ROUNDS, A COUPLE MONTHS, AND IT'S JUST TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING ON WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWED OR ANY RECOMMENDATIONS OR CHANGES ON WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED. ALRIGHT THEN. SO I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU WANT US TO REVIEW THE OTHER COURTESY REVIEW THREE, WHICH IS FOR THE OTHER HOUSE. IT'S, IT'S THE SAME STYLE HOUSE. UM, WE WERE RECOMMENDED TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, UM, ON THE NEXT GO ROUND, UM, FROM DR. DUN AND HER TEAM. SO THAT IS, UH, TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AND RECOMMENDATION THAT SHE MADE, UH, TO MAKE THOSE ADDITIONAL CHANGES. UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT IT'S REALLY, IT'S GONNA BE A DUPLEX IF WE GO BACK AND START [02:55:01] ALL OVER, START FROM SCRATCH IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE ALLOWED TO GO BACK TO ONE LOT OR IF WE CAN CONTINUE WITH THE TWO INDIVIDUAL LOTS. UM, IT'S, UH, DIFF BEEN A DIFFICULT PROCESS BUT UM, I THINK WE'VE MADE A LOT OF, UM, MOVEMENT FORWARD, UM, WITH WHAT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO THE TABLE AND LIKE I SAID, THE SECOND FLOOR WE TRY TO MINIMIZE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO FINISH OUT THAT ATTIC SPACE TO MAKE IT FIT THE AREA AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. ALRIGHT, THE NEXT TIME THE PRESENTATION THE CA COMES WHETHER THERE ARE DUPLEXES IN THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT, WE, WE CAN ALWAYS ASK THAT, BUT WE THIS WRONG IS EVIDENCE THAT MAKES THAT GOOD IDEA? IS THAT ORIGINALLY WHAT WE WANT? OH, OKAY. AND THAT'S WHAT OUR SANBORNE MAP TOLD US. IT'S HARD TO ARGUE AFTER THAT POINT, EVEN IF IT'S THE ONLY DUPLEX IN THE ENTIRE CITY, IT STILL PROVE THAT THAT COULD BE A DUPLEX . SO, UM, YEAH, WORK ON YOUR PLANS, DECIDE WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO AND COME BACK WHEN YOU ARE READY TO LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AND WE'LL, WE'LL BE WAITING TO HEAR WHAT HAPPENS. SO JUST TO RECAP, WE DO NEED TO GET WITH ZONING TO SEE IF THAT A DUPLEX WOULD BE ALLOWED AND IF YOU NEED YEAH, IF WHAT YOU NEED TO DO ABOUT THE PLANNING AND YOU ALL, ALL WE CAN DO TO HELP THAT IS YOU CAN TELL 'EM THAT WE ALL THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA AND FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. OKAY. . AND THEN IF UH, IF'S NOT ALLOWED, THEN WE CAN STILL CONTINUE WITH THIS BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS AS FAR AS THE TWO INDIVIDUAL LOTS. YEAH, YOU CAN, YOU CAN ALWAYS COME BACK WHENEVER YOU WANT FOR YOUR CA WHEN YOU'RE READY AND THEN WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. OKAY? OKAY, SOUNDS GOOD. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. NEXT UP IS D THREE. D THREE AND THIS IS OUR DEMOLITION REQUEST, ISN'T IT? YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. DISCUSSION ITEM D THREE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 10 23 BATTON CIRCLE AND THE 10TH STREET HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE CASE NUMBER IS COA, IT SHOULD BE 25, SO COA DASH 25 DASH 5 0 2. THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO ABOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING. THE STANDARD BEING USED IS IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH ARE SAFETY. THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING STANDARD IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY BE DENIED WITH PREJUDICE. THE PROPOSED WORK IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBSECTION H FOUR C TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF DEMOLITION TO DEMOLISH MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING STANDARD IMMINENT THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE. THE BUILDING IS SALVAGEABLE. APPLICANT SHOULD INSTALL CONSTRUCTION FENCING TO SECURE THE PROPERTY AND QUOTE UNQUOTE MOTHBALL THE STRUCTURE. THIS IS DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT. THANK YOU. AND WE HAVE ONE REGISTERED SPEAKER AS KIM THORN. YES, MY NAME IS KIM THORN. OKAY. I'M AN ATTORNEY AND IT'S MY PRIVILEGE. REPRESENT THE OWNER OF 10 23 BETTERTON, UH, D REALTY INVESTMENT. OKAY. AND WE ALSO NEED YOU TO SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU'LL TELL US THE TRUTH. AND MY ADDRESS BY THE WAY, GOD IS 1 23 WEST MAIN STREET IN BRADFORD. OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND YOU PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. THE, UH, YES. AS ALREADY STATED, UH, WE'RE ASKING FOR DEMOLITION OF THIS PROPERTY FOR PUBLIC, UH, HEALTH AND SAFETY REASONS. UH, D REALTY BOUGHT THE PROPERTY ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO. UH, NO CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE TO IT. IT OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN OCCUPIED. IN FACT, WE THINK IT WAS UNOCCUPIED AND ABANDONED FOR MAYBE DECADES BEFORE THAT. IT WAS, UH, IN A VERY DETERIORATED CONDITION. UH, IT'S IN THE SAME CONDITION TODAY AS WHEN B REALTY, UH, ACQUIRED IT IN 2020. WE, WITH THE APPLICATION WE SUPPLIED AND, UH, AND, UH, A STRUCTURAL EVALUATION FROM EVERGREEN STRUCTURES. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE FOR ME TO QUOTE DIRECTLY, UH, FROM THIS DOCUMENT THAT YOU'LL INDULGE ME. THE, UH, ENGINEER IAN RAY STATED, UH, FIRST OF ALL OF SIGNIFICANCE TO THE CONDITION OF HIS PROPERTY AS HE, UH, DID THE INTERIOR INSPECTION. I FELL THROUGH THE FLOOR DURING MY INSPECTION WHERE I WAS STANDING ON ROTTEN WOOD FLOORING. THE STRUCTURES IN DANGER OF COLLAPSE AND SHALL BE AND SHOULD BE TORN [03:00:01] DOWN IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT FAILURE AND HARM. HE GOES ON TO STATE THAT THE ROOF ROOF AND THE CEILING STRUCTURES ARE IN DANGER OF COLLAPSE. IN FACT, THE ROOF HAS COLLAPSED. HOLD THE ROOF. UH, I ASSUME ANIMALS ARE GOING IN AND OUT, UH, THROUGH THAT WHOLE, UH, IT GOES ON TO CONCLUSION. I FULLY RECOGNIZE THE HISTORIC VALUE OF THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION. HOWEVER, THE PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE OF SAFETY AND STRUCTURAL SOUNDNESS MUST PREVAIL WHEN A BUILDING NO LONGER CAN BE VIABLY, UH, PRESERVED OR RESTORED. LET ME ADD THIS. THIS IS A HUNDRED YEAR OLD BUILDING IN THE MICROPHONE, SO, OH, SORRY. WE HAVE PERMISSION. IS IT CALLED? THIS IS A HUNDRED YEAR OLD BUILDING, UH, A WOODEN FRAME OF A VERY SIMPLE STRUCTURE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D CALL IT A, A SHOTGUN HOUSE, BUT IT, I'D CALL IT A PACK OF BOX SHAPE. SIMPLE, UH, HOUSE WITH NO DISTINGUISHING FEATURES. UH, IT'S IN TERRIBLE CONDITION. UH, UH, THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION IS THAT, THAT THIS HOUSE IS SALVAGEABLE. UH, BUT ANY OBSERVATION WOULD SHOW YOU THAT THERE'S NOT A SINGLE BOARD, NOT A SINGLE NAIL THAT'S SALVAGEABLE IN THIS STRUCTURE. THE ROOF IS NOT SALVAGEABLE. THE FOUND THE FOUNDATION IS NOT SALV. THAT IS YOUR TIME, SIR. I'M SORRY. THAT IS YOUR TIME. OH GOSH. I MOVE THAT WE GIVE THE APPLICANT AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES. UH, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER PRESI AND THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. WHY DID YOUR NAME COMMISSIONER RES FOR YOUR SECOND? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ALL OPPOSED THEY, NO. OKAY, GO AHEAD SIR. TWO MORE MINUTES. YOU HAVE NOW. OH, THANK YOU. AND I'LL CONCLUDE WITHIN THAT. UH, BASICALLY THIS IS A HOUSE THAT SERVED THE FAMILY, UH, PROBABLY VERY WELL FOR MANY YEARS, BUT IT'S OUTLIVED ITS USEFUL LIFE. IT'S CURRENTLY, UH, A DANGER IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S NOT ONLY THE BLACKS, UH, BUT IT'S CAUSING A SAFETY HAZARD. CHILDREN, UH, WE KNOW AT LEAST IF THEY'RE LIKE I WAS, UH, ARE CURIOUS, THEY'RE ALLOWABLE TO BREAK IN. WE THINK THAT, UH, VAGRANTS COULD BREAK IN HOMELESS PEOPLE. UH, AS MR. RAY, THE ENGINEER EXPERIENCED AND FALLING THROUGH THE FLOOR. IT'S, IT'S A DANGER. IT, IT'S GOING TO, UH, IF IT'S NOT DEMOLISHED, IT'S GONNA DETERIORATE AND FALL ON ITS OWN. WITH THAT, WE, WE THANK HIM FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THIS. OKAY. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU AND, AND MY SYMPATHIES FOR THE ENGINEER MR. RAY ON HIS MISFORTUNE. BUT IF HE'S HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE INVESTIGATING SMALL HISTORIC WOODEN STRUCTURES, I THINK HE WOULD'VE GUESSED WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IF HE STOOD IN THE WRONG PART. 'CAUSE WE'VE ALL BEEN IN THOSE AND WE HAVE SEEN WHERE, WHERE WE SHOULDN'T STEP. BUT I NEED TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING YOU SAID. YOU SAID THAT THIS CURRENT OWNER BOUGHT IT SIX YEARS AGO. IT IS STILL IN THE SAME CONDITION NOW AS IT WAS THEN AND YOU CLAIM IT IS AN IMMINENT DANGER. YES, IMMINENT THREAT. IT'S BEEN AN IMMINENT THREAT FOR SIX YEARS AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT. WELL, D REALTY CAME BEFORE THE BOARD, UH, WITH A REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION ACTUALLY IN 2023, BUT IT WAS DENIED. SO, AND DID YOU SECURE THE BUILDING, PUT A CONSTRUCTION FENCE AROUND IT TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT? YES. DECIDE TO FIX IT ALREADY? DID YOU DO ANYTHING? YOU, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAYS IT'S AN IMMINENT DANGER, BUT HOW SCARED OF DANGER ARE YOU IF YOU LEFT IT THAT WAY FOR SIX YEARS, THE BUILDING IS COVERED IN HIGH BOARD AND LOCKS ON THE FRONT, UH, ENTRY. OKAY, SO THEN YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RENDERED IT NOT DANGEROUS WITH THAT PLY BOARD COVERING, I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN ACTUALLY GET IN UNLESS THEY CRAWL THROUGH THE HOLE THAT'S CREATED IN. AND HOW LONG HAS THE HOLE BEEN IN THE ROOF? HOW LONG HAS THAT HOLE BEEN IN THE ROOF? THAT I, I CAN, OKAY, I I ASKED THIS BECAUSE I HAVE TO WARN YOU. I AS ATTORNEY YOU'VE PROBABLY COME INTO THIS, WE HAVE A LAW AGAINST SOMETHING CALLED DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT WHERE PEOPLE PURPOSELY LET THEIR BUILDING FALL APART AND YOU WOULD CERTAINLY NOT WANNA BE GUILTY OF THAT. ONE REALLY SURE WAY FAR AWAY TO MAKE YOUR BUILDING FALL APART IS HAVE A HOLE IN THE ROOF AND LET THE RAIN GET IN. IT JUST DESTROYS EVERYTHING. SO YOU MAY GET QUESTIONED ABOUT ALLOWING THAT HOLE TO EXIST FOR SO LONG. UH, I I MIGHT ADD ALSO [03:05:01] THAT WITH OUR APPLICATION, WE DID, UH, PRESENT TWO ESTIMATES FROM CONTRACTORS FOR REPAIR OF THIS PROPERTY. AND LOOKING AT THOSE ESTIMATES, WHAT THEY SAID WAS, WE'LL DEMOLISH THE, THE PROPERTY, THE HOUSE AND REBUILD A NEW ONE. THE ESTIMATES WERE 168,000 TO 185,000. THEY'RE RECONSTRUCT THE NEW STRUCTURE. SO THEY, THEY CONFIRMED WHAT THE ENGINEER SAID. OKAY. AND HAVE YOU MADE SURE THAT THE OWNERS KNOW THAT SHOULD THIS BUILDING BE ALLOWED TO BE DEMOLISHED, THE ONLY THING THAT CAN REPLACE IT IS ANOTHER BUILDING OF SIMILAR SIZE AND CHARACTER? WELL, I, I WILL CERTAINLY ADVISE THEM OF THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO BUILD SOMETHING BIGGER OR A DIFFERENT STYLE THAT IS NOT ALLOWED WITHIN THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT. NOW I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADDRESS THE COST ESTIMATES OR THE POTENTIAL FOR REPAIRING IT. WE HAVE HOWEVER PEOPLE EXPERIENCED IN THOSE AREAS WHO WOULD NOW, LIKE PROBABLY TO ADDRESS THOSE. WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST? COMMISSIONER REEVES, I'M EQUALLY AS SHOCKED OF SIX YEARS AND NOTHING BEING DONE. AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAD COME BEFORE US IN 2023 AND WE SAID NO, I THINK YOU CAN EXPECT US TO SAY NO AGAIN. I, I NEED TO LEAVE A REAL QUICK QUESTION. WHEN THEY PURCHASED THE BUILDING, WHAT WAS THEIR INTENTION TO DO WITH THE BUILDING AT, AT THIS TIME? UH, FOR STAGE ONE, THEY DON'T HAVE, THEY'RE NOT BUILDERS. NO. WHEN, WHEN YOU PURCHASED, WHEN THEY PURCHASED THE BUILDING, WHAT WAS THEIR INTENTION TO DO WITH THE BUILDING? JUST AN INVESTMENT. WHAT WAS THEIR INTENTION TO DO WITH THE BUILDING? RENOVATE IT, TEAR IT DOWN. IGNORE IT. WHAT WAS THEIR INTENTION? THEY BOUGHT A BUILDING AND THEY WERE GOING TO DO WHAT WITH THE PROPERTY? I, I I I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THAT WAS. I WASN'T THERE. THAT WAS SIX YEARS AGO. MY IMPRESSION IS THEY BOUGHT IT AS AN INVESTMENT WITH THE OBVIOUS, UH, GOAL EVENTUALLY WAS TO GET IT DEMOLISHED AND THEY DISCOVERED IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND NEEDS THIS, UH, AUTHORITY. YOU SHOULDN'T BUY A PROPERTY HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH THE INTENTION TO DEMOLISH IT. THAT'S KIND OF COUNTERINTUITIVE. WELL, LIKE OF MANY PEOPLE, THEY, THEY BOUGHT THIS AT A PROPERTY TAX SALE. IT HAD BEEN ABANDONED OBVIOUSLY FOR YEARS AND THEY JUST DIDN'T DO THAT WHOLE THAT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WHO ELSE HAS A QUESTION? MAY I, MAY I SIMPLY SAY THE, THE ALTERNATIVE TO DEMOLITION IS WE HAVE A HAZARD IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S LIKE AND A DANGER. SO LEAVE THAT WITH YOU. I THINK THE TASK FORCE WAS ARGUING THAT THE ALTERNATIVE TO DEMOLITION, RIGHT, IS TO BETTER SECURE IT SO IT DOES NOT FALL DOWN AND DOES NOT HURT ANYBODY WHILE YOU COME UP WITH A RESTORATION PLAN. THAT'S WHAT THE TASK FORCE WAS SAYING. SO IT'S NOT TRUE. THERE'S ONLY ONE POTENTIAL ANSWER, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS OR THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS TO FIX EVERYTHING IN PLACE. UH, AND WE'RE AVOIDING THAT. UM, I WOULD HAVE STRONG ISSUES WITH WHAT I WOULD DEEM, AND I KNOW WE'RE THIS IS, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE TALKING MONEY, BUT THE QUESTIONING OF OF THE MONEY MAKES ME THINK THE VALIDITY OF, OF SOME OF THAT, OF WHAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO AND HOW THAT COST COULD GREATLY GO UP. UM, THAT, THAT'S CONCERNING. IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S EXTREMELY LOW, BUT WE, WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO TALK ABOUT MONEY. UM, I'VE BEEN IN A LOT OF CASES OF SAPLINGS GROWING UP THROUGH FLOORBOARDS OF NO SUBFLOOR OF NO, NO PEERS OF PEERS BEING COMPLETELY DONE. THEY'VE BEEN RESTORED THERE, THERE'S BEEN HOLES IN THINGS, THEY'VE BEEN RESTORED. A LOT OF THESE BUILDINGS THAT I'M SPEAKING OF, YOU HAVE BEEN RESTORED AND THEY'VE GOT PLAQUES OF, OF HOW THEY'RE COM THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING TO THE HISTORIC COMMUNITY, COMMUNITY IN SUCH A WAY. UM, JUST BECAUSE THERE'S SOME FOUNDATION ISSUES. AND I WOULD DARE TO SAY EVERY EVERY, EVERY PIER I'VE BEEN IN, I'VE, I'VE RESTORED BUILDINGS THAT HAD EVERY OC PIER TAMPER, UH, NOT TAMPERED, UH, COMPROMISED AND IT WASN'T DEMOLISHED. THEY'VE ALL BEEN ABLE TO BE FIXED IN SOME WAY. I HAVE STRONG CONCERNS ON ALLOWING SOMETHING JUST TO DETERIORATE OVER TIME. WHEN, WHEN WAS THE HOLE UNDERSTOOD THE HOLE IN THIS ROOF? WHEN IS THERE A DATE OR IS THERE A TIME OF WHEN THAT WAS ACKNOWLEDGED? I, I CAN TELL YOU THAT I SAW IT FOR THE FIRST TIME YESTERDAY, SO I DON'T KNOW. OKAY, SO IS IT STILL THERE TODAY? YES, IT'S STILL THERE FOR THAT. SO EVEN THOUGH, EVEN, EVEN IF IT WAS JUST NOTICED YESTERDAY, THERE'S THERE'S NOT ANY COVERING OVER IT. WELL I WOULD PUT A COVERING OVER A HOLE AS SOON AS I SAW IT. [03:10:02] I A TARP. HE MEANS IT'S NOT DE REALTY. I MEAN IT'S HARP. I THINK THE DE REALTY CAME FOR THIS, UH, BOARD WITH THE HOPE THAT IT COULD BE DEMO ACKNOWLEDGED. IT'S NOT EVIDENTLY THAT'S, I THINK YOU'RE ACCURATE ON, ON YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THAT THEY CAME WANTING THAT'S WHAT THEIR DESIRE IS AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR. UH, IT I HAVE STRONG CONCERNS. THIS IS DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT. I I CAN CURIOUS, LEMME TELL YOU FROM PERSONAL OBSERVATION THAT A FACT THAT A, UH, ONE MATCH WOULD DEMOLISH THAT BUILDING IN 10 MINUTES. YOU PUT A MATCH IN MY HOUSE AND IT WOULD DEMOLISH MY HOUSE. SO THAT'S, THAT'S NE NEITHER HERE NOR THERE. THAT IS TRUE. I JUST SPENT $45,000 HAVING MY HOUSE PAINTED. PLEASE DON'T PUT A MATCH NEAR IT. AND IT'S A CONTRIBUTING HISTORIC STORY. I DIDN'T NEED YOU. IT'S MADE OF WOOD. SO NO, NO MATCHES, NO NO MATCHES ANYWHERE. PLEASE. UH, COMMISSIONER HARPER. YEAH, I JUST WANNA ADD THIS CONTEXT. I MEAN, IF THIS ONES HAVE OWNED IT FOR SIX YEARS, GOOGLE CREEK VIEW SHOWS THAT AS RECENTLY AS 2021 AND 2020 IMAGERY SHOWS THE HABITABLE HOME OF CAR IN THE DRIVEWAY. SO UNDER THIS CURRENT OWNERSHIP, IT APPEARS THAT THIS HOME WAS NOT VACANT AND YOU CAN GO BACK YEARS PREVIOUS. SO I MEAN, I JUST TO REDIRECT ALL OF THIS, I MEAN, ON THE SCREEN IS WHAT YOU ARE TO RULE UNDER AND, AND YES, IT SAYS WE MUST DENY UNLESS WE MEET THOSE CRITERIA. SO I FEEL LIKE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT, BUT YES, OUR PURVIEW IS VERY CLEAR ON THE SCREEN. YES. SO UNLESS SOMEONE HAS ANOTHER VIEW ON THIS, WE DO NEED TO ASK FOR A, A MOTION ASKING IF WE, WE AGREE THERE'S NO OTHER WAY. THE DEMOLITION TOOTHPASTE. ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A MOTION? WE'RE LOOKING FOR A MOTION. I, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT THIS ITEM, UH, NOT BE APPROVED AND THAT, UM, WE FIND THAT, UM, THERE IS A REASONABLE WAY OTHER THAN DEMOLITION TO ELIMINATE THE THREAT. AND DO YOU WISH TO GO WITH DENY WITH PREJUDICE OR WITHOUT PREJUDICE? UM, STAFF RECOMMENDED WITH WITH PREJUDICE WITH YES. I SECOND THAT MOTION. I, I BELIEVE, UM, MAYBE THE STATE MORE CLEARLY. UM, MAYBE THE MOTION COULD BE TO FOLLOW THE, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND DENY THE CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER LISKY FOR YOUR MOTION. I'M TRYING AND, AND COMMISSIONER REEVES WAS, OH, OUR COMMISSIONER TAYLOR WAS APPARENTLY THE FIRST SECOND . SO THAT'S ON THERE. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS ANYMORE. SO I'M GONNA CALL FOR THE VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES, YES. ALL THOSE OPPOSED PLEASE SAY NO. OKAY, SIR, YOUR, THIS MOTION HAS CARRIED, THEREFORE YOU HAVE BEEN DENIED. YOU CAN APPEAL TO CPC WITH FOR A FEE, BUT THEY WILL ONLY CONSIDER WHETHER WE HAVE RULED WRONGLY. AND YOU, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO DO THAT. YOU AND YOUR CLIENTS, YOU CAN DISCUSS THAT WITH THEM. WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS HOUSE RESTORED IF IT CAN, IF IT SOMEDAY ACTUALLY DOES BURN DOWN AND IT'LL BE AWFULLY SUSPICIOUS IF THAT HAPPEN SOON. SO YOU BETTER PROTECT IT WITH YOUR LIFE. JUST ABOUT, I DON'T NEED TO SPARK THAT IDEA. IF IT IS SOMEDAY GONE, IT WILL HAVE TO BE REBUILT AS A HOUSE, PROBABLY AS CLOSE TO THE ORIGINAL AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAD. THAT'S THE CHARACTER OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DEFEND. I ADMIT THE HOUSE IS IN 10TH STREET AREN'T FOR EVERYBODY'S TASTE, BUT THAT'S WHAT BELONGS IN 10TH STREET. SO PLEASE TELL YOUR CLIENTS TO PLEASE CONSIDER CONTRIBUTING TO 10TH STREET BY RE FIXING THIS HOUSE. OKAY. THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO FOR YOU THOUGH. THANK YOU. OKAY. D EIGHT. DO YOU NEED TO GO AHEAD? I THOUGHT WHAT YOU GO? OKAY, THAT'S ME, . OKAY, I'LL BE BACK. ARE WE TAKING A BREAK? ? GO AHEAD. PRESENT D FIVE. OKAY, SO WHICH ONE ARE WE ON? D EIGHT. D EIGHT. OKAY. DISCUSSION ITEM D EIGHT. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 1159 NORTH MADISON AVENUE. IT IS THE WESLEY INN. THE REQUEST IS FOR A LANDMARK COMMISSION AUTHORIZED HEARING TO CONSIDER A HISTORIC OVERLAY FOR THE WESLEY INN ON THE NORTH SIDE OF NORTH MADISON AVENUE AND WEST OF BALLARD AVENUE. STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS APPROVAL WITH MINOR EDITS, TASK [03:15:01] FORCE RECOMMENDATION APPROVAL WITH MINOR EDITS. WE HAVE, WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS, UH, LI UM, SIGNED UP TO SPEAK AJ RAMBLER. AND SO THEN WE ALSO HAVE KEITH ALVIS, I THINK KEITH'S ON ZOOM. I AM AJ RAMBLER, MY ADDRESS TO 1923 NORTH EDGEFIELD AND I SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. OKAY. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. YEAH, I REALLY, FIRST OFF I WANNA SAY I APPRECIATE ON, I KNOW THIS YVONNE , IT'S A LOT OF WORK, UM, FOR Y'ALL WORKING ON ALL THIS STUFF HERE. AND I REALLY CAME MOSTLY JUST TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. UM, I WILL SAY THAT IT'S A VERY SPECIAL PROPERTY, THE WESLEYN NOW MADISON HOTEL, WE'LL CELEBRATE A HUNDRED YEARS OF LIFE THIS YEAR. SO IT'S AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO LOOK AND, UH, WE HAVE, WE ALSO HAVE KEITH SIGNED UP TO SPEAK IS IS THE STAFF COULD CHECK ON THAT. YES, HE IS. HE WAS ONLINE. YEAH. YEAH, HE WAS SIGNED WITH SPEAKING PERSON, SO HE MIGHT BE PARTNER SO WELL HE SEEMS TO BE ONLINE OR IN THE MEETING. SO WE'RE TRYING TO PROMOTE HIM TO AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. SINCE HE HAS SIGNED UP, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT HE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. SO IT COULD BE THE DEVICE WHO CAN'T GET ON AND THEIR DEVICE MIGHT NOT BE WORKING. RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. , CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME? OH, YOU, OH, THERE, WE, WE HEAR HIM. YEAH, I JUST GOT ON MUTED. SO, I'M KEITH ALDI, I'M AJ'S BUSINESS PARTNER AT PROXY PROPERTIES. I RESIDE AT 1311 WOODLAWN AVENUE, DALLAS, 7 5 2 0 8. AND I PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. OKAY. UM, CAN YOU GET YOUR MIC? YOUR, UH, WE SEE YOU. IT'S A STATE LAW THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO BE SEEN WHEN YOU LOG IN REMOTELY. SPEAK AT A PUBLIC MEETING. SURE. JOIN YOUR CAMERA. CAMERA PLEASE. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. . THAT'S A SIMPLE WAY SAYING, THERE WE GO. THERE YOU GO. OKAY. YOU ARE THERE. SORRY, I WASN'T PREPARED TO SPEAK, TO BE HONEST. I THOUGHT I WAS JUST GONNA BE THERE SUPPORTING AJ. WELL, I DO WANNA SAY JUST THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING THIS COMMITTEE. WE'VE ALL SAT THROUGH THESE HOURS OF THIS AND APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT YOU DO. SO, LOOKING FORWARD TO ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ON THE WESLEYAN. OKAY. AND, AND, AND IF YOU SAT THROUGH OUR ENTIRE MEETING, I HOPE YOU GOT SOME ENTERTAINMENT VALUE OUTTA IT AT SOME POINT, BECAUSE IT'S, AND LEARNED A LOT. I'LL SAY, UH, YOU LEARNED A LOT, SO YOU'LL BE READY GOING FORWARD WHEN THIS IS A LANDMARK TOO. TO, TO DEAL WITH IT. COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSIONER RES, DO THEY APPROVE OF THE EDITS THAT HAD BEEN SUGGESTED? DID, DID YOU MAKE ALL THE EDITS THAT HAD ALL THE EDITS THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE SAID, SHOULD BE MADE, HAVE BEEN MADE? DOES EVERYONE, OKAY. DR. DUNN ASSERTS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN MADE. YES. YES. OKAY. AND DONE. YOU'RE GONNA SAY SOMETHING RIGHT? MAKE A MOTION. OKAY. YOU GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION. SURE. I MAKE, THIS IS COMMISSIONER POSI WHO'S ON THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE, AS AM I. YES. I JUST WANNA SAY YES. UH, WE'VE ALREADY TALKED THIS TO DEATH. GONE THROUGH THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE AND, UH, WE ARE VERY APPRECIATIVE OF THE EFFORTS TO BRING THIS FORWARD AS WELL AS PUTTING TOGETHER THE, UH, DESIGNATION REPORT AND WORKING WITH THE CITY ON THE PRESERVATION, UH, CRITERIA. SO, I'D LIKE TO MOVE, UH, FOR, I GUESS WE DON'T HAVE CASE NUMBER D 8 11 59 NORTH MADISON AVENUE, KNOWN AS THE WESLEY END, THAT WE APPROVE THE HISTORIC OVERLAY FOR THE WESLEYAN, UM, BASED ON, UM, WHAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED. SECOND. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER. HANO HOSA. UM, I, IF THERE'S NO COMMENTS TO BE MADE, I'M SURE WE'RE ALL HAPPY, , THAT THIS IS GOING FORWARD. WE'D [03:20:01] LIKE TO SEE MORE LANDMARKS, I'LL CALL ON THE VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? COMMISSIONER WAS YOUR SECOND. ALRIGHT, SIRS . GENTLEMEN, THIS IS, IT'S A GO. WE HAVE APPROVED IT. WE'RE DELIGHTED TO HAVE IT JOIN OUR ROSTER OF LANDMARKS. BUT NOW, YOU KNOW, DON'T MAKE ANY CHANGES WITHOUT COMING FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. FIRST , UNLESS YOU CAN BRING A HUNDRED PEOPLE WITH YOU, , NO, THAT'S NOT REQUIRED, BUT , BUT DO, DO TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES NOW AND PASS THAT ON. IF YOU EVER SELL IT TO SOMEONE THERE, Y'ALL, THAT'S USUALLY WHERE THE PROBLEM HAPPENS. APPRECIATE Y'ALL. OKAY. DO. THANK YOU. BYE-BYE. ALL RIGHT. D NINE IS OUR CONSIDERATION OF QUEEN CITY, WHICH WE HAVE ALREADY HAD A MORE FULL PRESENTATION OF, AND I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THIS IS BEEN DONE BEFORE. WILL BE DONE AGAIN WHEN WE HAVE NEW YES. OKAY. DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER NINE, CHRISTINA PEREZ ON BEHALF OF STAFF. THIS IS A CONSIDERATION OF ADDITION OF THE QUEEN CITY PRE DESIGNATION, MORATORIUM TO THE HISTORIC TAX EXEMPTION DISTRICT CATEGORY REQUEST RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL OF ADDITION OF THE QUEEN CITY PRE-DESIGN MOR TO THE ENDANGERED HISTORIC DISTRICT'S CATEGORY OR TYPE OF EXEMPTION OF HISTORIC TAX EXEMPTION PROGRAM. ANY QUESTION? THERE AREN'T ANY TASK FORCE. NO, THERE'S NOT. THIS, THIS DOESN'T NEED TO GO TO TASK FORCE. OKAY. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OVER WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN THE BRIEFING? ALRIGHT, THEN SOMEONE HAS A MOTION. DO WE HAVE TO MOVE TO, YOU HAVE OUR RECOMMENDATION OR JUST TELL YOU TO WRITE THE LETTER? YOUR, YOUR MOTION WOULD BE THAT YOU RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE SMITH. I RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF INCLUDING THE TAX DESIGNATION FOR CO CITY. IS THAT AS AN ENDANGERED MR. ORCHESTRA AS A MAJOR HORSE? ENDANGERED? YES. SECOND. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER RENO. THAT'S WHO I HEARD. ALL RIGHTY. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE? YES. YES, YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THE MOTION HAS CARRIED. GO FORTH. REMIND RE CARRY OUR RECOMMENDATION. I GO DO SOMETHING. SO YOU GO DO THAT. OKAY. D FOUR. YES. OKAY. DISCUSSION ITEM D FOUR. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 28 15 MCDERMOTT AVENUE. IT'S IN THE WHEATLEY PLACE, HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE CASE NUMBER IS COA DASH 25 DASH 5 7 5. THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A REAR DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE. THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A REAR DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE, BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 12 16 20 25 WITH THE FOLLOWING COM CONDITIONS. ONE THAT BUILDING'S FRONT DOOR BE CENTERED BETWEEN CORRESPONDING PORCH COLUMNS. TWO, THAT PORCH COLUMNS FRONT AND REAR BE A MINIMUM, MINIMUM OF EIGHT INCHES IN WIDTH WITH A SIMPLE RECTANGULAR SQUARE BASE. AND CAPITAL THREE THAT FREEZE BOARD ABOVE FRONT PORCH COLUMNS BE AT LEAST EIGHT INCHES IN HEIGHT. FOUR, THAT FOUNDATION HEIGHT BE A MINIMUM OF 18 INCHES ABOVE GRADE. AND FIVE, THAT DRIVEWAYS WALKWAYS AND STEPS BE OF BRUSH FINISHED. CONCRETE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA. SECTION 3.3 UNDER BUILDING SITE AND LANDSCAPING AND SECTIONS 9.3, 9.6 AND 9.9 0.7 UNDER NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS. THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 SUBSECTION G SIX C ROMAN TWO FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT AND OR NEIGHBORHOOD TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING [03:25:01] ON A VACANT LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A REAR DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE BE APPROVED WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS. COMMENTS, REMOVE THE REAR DOOR IN THE LAUNDRY ROOM AND PROVIDE ALTERNATE FRONT ELEVATIONS, ONE WITH AN INSET PORCH. ALL RIGHTY. UM, WE THOUGHT WE HAD NO MORE SPEAKERS ON ANY CASE, BUT YET THERE'S STILL AN AUDIENCE MEMBER. ARE YOU JUST HERE LISTENING TO US? WOW. ALL RIGHTY. I ASSUME THAT'S PUNISHMENT FOR SOME GRIEVOUS ERROR YOU'VE MADE IN A PAST LIFE. OKAY. I'VE NOT BEEN ONLINE. WE DO HAVE SOMEONE ONLINE. WHAT IS THEIR NAME? IS IT MR. ELLIS? YES, I'M ELLIS. I'M HERE. I'M MARK ELLIS. I'M I'M THE BUILDER OF THE HOUSE. OKAY. AND WE CAN ALSO SEE YOU, WHICH IS NECESSARY. I NEED YOU TO START MR. ELLIS BY GIVING US YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND SWEARING OR AFFIRMING THAT YOU WILL TELL THE TRUTH. YEAH, IT'S MARK ELLIS 1 6 0 2 7 CHAON PLAY EAST ELLIS, TEXAS 7 5 2 4 8. I DO SWEAR THAT I WILL TELL THE TWO RULES. OKAY. YOU OKAY TO BEGIN, SIR, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO GIVE US ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR PROJECT THAT MIGHT HELP, AND THEN WE'LL ASK YOU QUESTIONS FOR CLARIFICATION. GREAT. YEAH, THIS IS A FOLLOW UP TO HEARING A MONTH AGO WHERE I RECEIVED FEEDBACK, UM, ON THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE. THEN I MADE CHANGES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE, UH, WITH THE FEEDBACK. AND I BELIEVE THIS PLAN ADDRESSES ALL THE ISSUES THAT WERE RAISED THEN, UM, IN PARTICULAR THE FRONT PORCH IS, UM, IS FLUSH WITH A HOUSE, UH, RATHER THAN HAVING A FRONT THAT, UH, CABLE THAT SHUTS OUT. UM, SO IT'S A SIMPLER DESIGN. UM, THE STAIRS HAVE BEEN DONE AND THE, UM, THE STEPS ARE EVEN AND LEAD UP TO AN 18 INCH TALL, UM, UH, PORCH AREA, UH, WHICH MEETS THE FOUNDATION HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS. UM, THE DIAGRAM HAS BEEN UPDATED TO SHOW, UM, THE CHANGES. UH, ANOTHER CHANGE IS THAT THE DOOR TO THE REAR OF THE LAUNDRY ROOM FROM THE OUTSIDE HAS BEEN ELIMINATED AND, UH, THE DOUBLE DOORS BY THE REAR PORCH WOULD BE THE SOLE CONNECTS OUT TO THE BACKYARD. UM, SO I, I BELIEVE IF I'VE ADDRESSED ALL THE CONCERNS AND, UM, I WOULD APPRECIATE THE COMMISSION'S CONSIDERATION OF THIS UPDATE PLAN. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SIR. AND NOW, UM, COMMISSIONERS, WHAT QUESTIONS DO YOU HAVE? I KNOW WE HAD ONE QUESTION EARLIER. SO, UH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. UM, WHEN YOU WERE COMPARING THE MASSING OF THIS PARTICULAR RESIDENCE TO THE OTHERS ON THE, ON THE SAME BLOCK, UM, ONE THING I NOTICED WAS THAT, UM, NONE OF THEM EXPRESSED A, A, A ROOF EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE YOU'RE PROPOSING, THAT IT'S JUST A ONE PLANE GABLE ALL THE WAY FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK WITHOUT ANY OTHER ARTICULATION. I MEAN, I, I REALIZE THERE IS A RECESS PORCH, BUT AGAIN, EVEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE OF ANOTHER HOME ON THE, ON THE BLOCK, EVEN THAT RECESS PORCH HAD A, HAD A PROJECTION THAT HELPED, UH, DEFINE IT. BECAUSE IN, AGAIN, IN MY MIND WHEN WE'RE COMPARING THIS, UM, ONE OF THE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION AND AND ADDITION REQUIREMENTS IS THAT THE, THE FENESTRATION MASSING MATERIALS ROOF FORM, UH, BE BE APPROPRIATE WITH, WITH OTHER HOMES ON THE, ON THE BLOCK. AND, UM, JUST WONDERING IF YOU WOULD, UM, UH, UH, ACCOMMODATE, YOU KNOW, ANY ADDITIONAL, UH, DETAIL ON THE FRONT TO, TO MAKE IT MORE COMPATIBLE. WELL, THERE, UM, UH, THERE IS A, A COMPARABLE, UM, THAT SHOWS BASE THE SIMPLE ROOF GOING ALL THE WAY BACK. UM, AND I THINK IT'S 2 8 3 1 MCDERMOTT AVENUE. UM, AND, UM, THE FEEDBACK THAT I THOUGHT I'D RECEIVED LAST TIME IS TO MAKE THE FRONT SIMPLER, UM, AND, AND REMOVE THE, THE ADDITIONAL SORT OF EXTENT EXTENDED GABLE COMING FROM THE FRONT. UM, AND, AND TO CREATE A MORE BASIC DESIGN. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I DID. I I DO HAVE AN ALTERNATE VERSION WHICH MATCHES ESSENTIALLY THE PREVIOUS ONE, UM, UH, THAT I PRESENTED FOR THE FRONT, WHICH HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, OF AN EMBELLISHED DESIGN IN THAT THERE IS AN EXTENSION OF THAT FRONT, FRONT PORCH [03:30:01] AREA FORWARD. UM, AND THAT'S ACTUALLY IN LINE WITH WHAT THAT 2 8 3 1 MCDERMOTT AVENUE HAS. UM, BUT OTHERWISE THE ROOF IS ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL TO THAT, I BELIEVE. CAN WE SEE, I DID TRY TO LISTEN TO THE CONDITIONS, THE ALTERNATIVE FEEDBACK. UH, YES, I CAN, I CAN, UM, IF YOU ALLOW ME TO SHARE MY SCREEN, I CAN PROBABLY BRING IT UP AND SHOW YOU THE TWO VERSIONS. UM, IF YOU WOULD JUST GIMME JUST A MOMENT TO, TO PREP FOR THAT. I'LL, I'LL HAVE THAT UP IN JUST A MOMENT HERE PLEASE. OKAY. UM, I THINK I'M READY TO SHARE MY SCREEN. LEMME TRY TO DO THAT NOW. JUST A MOMENT. I'M GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY. I'M JUST LOOKING FOR THE CONTROLS TO SHARE MY SCREEN. OH, HERE IT IS. SHARE, YEAH, WE USE A DIFFERENT ONE THAN ALL THE OTHERS YOU'VE EVER USED. SO , JUST TO MAKE IT, OKAY, SO WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT ON THE SCREEN IS THE FRONT ELEVATION FOR THE VERSION THAT I HAVE NOW. MM-HMM . WHICH HAS A VERY BASIC FRONT PORCH AREA. I THINK THE VERSION THAT I PRESENTED LAST TIME WAS LIKE THIS, WHICH HAD A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A DECORATIVE FRONT. UM, I'M OKAY WITH EITHER OF THESE TWO DESIGNS. UH, I SWITCHED IT BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS IN LINE WITH THE FEEDBACK THAT YOU GUYS ARE GIVING ME. I'D LIKE TO JUST QUICKLY BRING UP THAT HOUSE AT 2 8 1 5 MCDERMOTT AVENUE. THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT THAT HOUSE LOOKS LIKE IN THE FRONT. AND YEAH, THAT WAS THE ONE I VERY SIMILAR TO. VERY SIMILAR TO THE, WHAT I HAD AS THE, AS THE ORIGINAL PLAN THERE. VERY COMMON WAY FOR THEM JUST TO APPEAR AT THAT . YEAH. SO PROBABLY ME WHO TOLD ME YOU TO SIMPLIFY AND I APOLOGIZE. I'M ALWAYS SAYING THAT I PROBABLY DIDN'T MEAN THE ROOF 'CAUSE I REALLY LIKED THE FIRST ONE ON THIS ONE. YEAH. . SO I, I MUST HAVE MEANT SOMETHING ELSE, SO, SORRY. OKAY. WELL, I'M, I'M HAPPY TO KEEP THIS, THIS, THIS SET OF PLANS IS IDENTICAL TO THE OTHER ONE WITH, WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THIS FRONT PART HERE. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, ALL THE SAME CHANGES WERE MADE. LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, THAT DOUBLE REAR EXIT, UH, THAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY IN THIS SET OF PLANS WAS ALSO CHANGED TO BE JUST THE SINGLE EXIT, UM, OUT OF THE BACK PORCH, DOUBLE DOORS. AND AGAIN, I CAN SH SHOW YOU THAT HERE, UH, BY THE LAUNDRY ROOM. THERE WAS PREVIOUSLY A DOOR HERE AND NOW THAT DOOR IS GONE AND IT'S JUST THESE DOUBLE DOORS HERE AND YOU CAN SEE THE FRONT PORCH IS FLUSH. AND IN THIS OTHER VERSION HERE, UM, UH, WELL IT LOOKS FLUSH, BUT THE, BUT THE ROOT FEATURE HERE, YOU CAN SEE THIS EXTENSION IS, IS THERE, UH, THE, THIS APPARENTLY ISN'T THE LATEST VERSION BECAUSE THIS DOOR IS GONE FROM THE ALTERNATE PLANS. SO I JUST THOUGHT I DO HAVE THAT COMPLETE IDENTICAL SET. UM, WITH, WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE FRONT PORCH. YES, SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS I CAN, I CAN ADDRESS? NO SIR, NOT FOR ME. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY, SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT THIS IS THE PREFERRED PLANE AND THE ONE THAT'S ON SCREEN RIGHT NOW? YES. OR THE PREFERRED FRONT. GOT IT. YEAH, THE, THE, THE PORCH PART IS THE PREFERRED I THINK WE SAID. OKAY. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE? ANY OTHER ASPECT, ANYBODY AT HOME? BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE YOU. ALL RIGHT. DOES ANYBODY HAVE A MOTION THEN? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT COMES AFTER WE RUN OUTTA QUESTIONS. I HAVE A MOTION. GO AHEAD. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. NO, YOU HAD LIGHT WORK TODAY, SO IT'S FINE. I KNOW IT'S FINE. A NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, REGARDING DISCUSSION ITEM, UH, D FOUR, UM, 2 8 1 15 MCDERMOTT AVENUE, ALSO KNOWN AS COA TWO FIVE, [03:35:01] UH, 5 7 5, THAT WE FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATION WITH, UH, ONE ADDITIONAL, UM, CONDITION THAT I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW TO REFER TO THAT PARTICULAR FRONT. UM, IT IS THE FRONT THAT HAS A SECOND FRONT GABLE, CORRECT. OKAY. SO, WELL, I WAS JUST TRYING TO SAY IT IN THE WAY THAT IT WAS, OR A SEPARATE GABLE OVER THE PORCH. SURE. THE WAY THAT IT WAS PRESENTED TO US, BECAUSE IT'S TWO, IN FACT TWO SEPARATE PLANS. UM, SO IT'S, IT'S THE, THE PLAN YOU'VE SUBMITTED, HOWEVER, WITH, UM, THE ADDITIONAL CONDITION THAT THE, THERE'S A SECONDARY GABLE, UH, ON THE FRONT ELEVATION, UH, WITH THREE COLUMNS AND A, A SLIGHT PROJECTION TO THE FRONT. OKAY. SO OUR SECOND WAS COMMISSIONER REEVES AND COMMISSIONER RENO WAS THE AUTHOR OF IT. IS THERE ANY FURTHER COMMENTARY OR CAN WE VOTE? YES. READY TO VOTE? OKAY. UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, THEN YOU ARE GOOD TO GO, SIR. I'LL WORK WITH STAFF TO FINALIZE YOUR PERMITS. DON'T BEGIN BUILDING BEFORE YOU HAVE ALL . YOU HAVE YOUR CA BUT, UM, UH, GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND I HOPE IT TURNS OUT TO BE A LOVELY HOUSE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. APPRECIATE THE CONSIDERATION. OKAY, NOW COMMISSIONER MUST RECUSE HIMSELF ON THESE LAST THREE, SO HE'S GOING HOME. SO I'M GONNA LEAVE . Y'ALL HAVE FUN. WE WE WILL HAVE SUCH A GOOD TIME WITHOUT IT. YOU'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT YOU BEHIND YOUR BACK. I, IT'S GONNA, BUT THE REASON I NEED TO RECUSE MYSELF IS THAT I'M ON, ON THE STATE BORDER OF REVIEW AND THIS WILL BE COMING BEFORE THE STATE BORDER OF REVIEW ON THE 17TH. UM, SO, UH, ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION, THEY DON'T WANT ME TO VOTE ON THIS. SO I'M CUSING MYSELF AND LEAVING YOU. AND I DID ASK YOU DIDN'T YOU NEED TO REUSE MYSELF? I HEARD YOU SAID, OH NO, I DON'T AND I DIDN'T THINK I DID UNTIL I DOUBLE CHECKED. YES, YOU'RE WELCOME. I'M, I'M PROTECTING YOU FROM GETTING IN ANY TROUBLE. OKAY. ALRIGHT, SO NUMBER FIVE, DISCUSSION ITEM D FIVE. THIS IS RAA PER PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF REGARDING DISCUSSION ITEM D FIVE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 400 NORTH ST. PAUL STREET AND IS COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE HARTFORD BUILDING. THE REQUEST IS FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING TO REVIEW NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FORM FOR 400 NORTH ST. PAUL STREET AT THE BEHEST OF TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. THERE'S NO TASK FORCE. OKAY, SO ANYBODY WANNA MAKE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION. THIS IS COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. YES. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. OKAY. THIS IS, UM, 400 NORTH ST. PAUL STREET. UH, I MOVE TO FOLLOW STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS TO APPROVE THE REQUEST TO REVIEW NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FORM FOR 400 NORTH ST. PAUL STREET, THE HAR, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE HARTFORD BUILDING AT THE BEHEST OF THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. AND WE HAVE REVIEWED IT AND WE WE'RE IN SUPPORT OF IT BECOMING A NATIONAL REGISTER PROPERTY. YEAH, SOMEONE'S GOTTA SECOND IT AND THEN YOU ASK HER IF SHE WILL MAKE AN AMENDMENT. IT'S COMMISSIONER REYES, WHO'S NOW ALSO MAKING IT TURN ON YOUR MIC. YES. SHE CAN'T HEAR YOU AT HOME. SECOND, MAY I MAKE AN AMENDMENT? YES. I WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE THAT. IT WAS A FIDELITY INSURANCE COMPANY AND REPRESENTATIVE JIM COLLINS AND HIS FAMILY WERE OCCUPANTS OF THE BUILDING FOREVER. OKAY. THAT WOULDN'T REALLY BE AN AMENDMENT, IT WOULD BE MORE OF A SUGGESTION THAT STAFF COULD PASS ON. OKAY. ABOUT ANOTHER SUPPORTING BIT OF HISTORICAL. I WILL JUST SECOND THAT. FACTS. OKAY. SO IT'S NOW BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? GOOD. OKAY. D SIX, MADAM CHAIR ON D SIX. I DIDN'T REALIZE WE WERE GONNA VOTE ON THESE 'CAUSE IT JUST SAID NEWS. I NEED THE CUES ON THIS ONE. SPIT UP. OH, OKAY. YEAH, WE'RE JUST, WE'RE VOTING TO STAY. WE LIKE IT . SO, OH, DISCUSSION ITEM MADAM COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. YEAH, YOU NEED YOUR CAMERA ON TOO, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU WERE ABOUT TO SAY. OR MAYBE, MAYBE SHE'S FOSTER CAMERA. OH, I, NO, I HAVE MY CAMERA ON, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S ON, BUT I'M ASKING WHO MADE THE SECOND? THAT WAS COMMISSIONER REEVES. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY, DISCUSSION ITEM SIX. DISCUSSION ITEM D SIX. UH, THIS IS RAEZ PER PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF REGARDING DISCUSSION ITEM D SIX. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 1928 ROSS AVENUE AND IS COMMONLY KNOWN [03:40:01] AS THE FIRST METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH SOUTH. THE REQUEST IS FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING TO REVIEW NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FORM FOR 1928 ROSS AVENUE AT THE BEHEST STOP TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. ALL RIGHTY. ANYBODY HAVE A MOTION ON THIS ONE? COMMISSIONER RES I MOVE THAT WE, UH, APPROVE THE REVIEW FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION OF ROSS AVENUE FIRST METHODIST CHAIR, AND WE SUPPORT AND WE SUPPORT IT BECOMING A NATIONAL ARMY. OKAY, SECOND. ANY SECOND? SECOND. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS HAS SECONDED. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THAT MOTION IS CARRIED. AND THAT LEAVES US JUST D SEVEN COMM COMMISSIONER HARPER CAN COME BACK UNLESS YOU ALSO VOTE COMM MR. HARPER . OKAY, D SEVEN. DISCUSSION ITEM D SEVEN. THIS IS RAA PER PRESENTING ON BEHALF CITY STAFF REGARDING DISCUSSION ITEM D SEVEN. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 2324, NOT JIM MILLER ROAD AND IS COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE WHITEROCK GLOVES. THE REQUEST IS FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING TO REVIEW NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FORM FOR 2324. NOT JIM MILLER ROAD AT THE BEHEST OF TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. ALRIGHT, DOES ANYONE HAVE A MOTION TO MAKE ON THIS ONE? SOMEONE WHO HASN'T WORKED YET? COME ON, I'LL MAKE A MOTION. UH, WHAT'S THIS ONE? IT'S THIS ONE. NUMBER SEVEN? YES. YEAH. UH, ON THE ADDRESS OF 2 3 2 4 NORTH JIM MILLER ROAD, WHITE ROCK BLUFFS, UH, MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE REVIEW, NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FORM FOR THIS ADDRESS AT THE BEHEST OF TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. AND WE'RE IN SUPPORT OF THAT. SECOND. ANYBODY HAVE A SECOND? WHO SAID SECOND? COMMISSIONER RENO IS OUR SECOND. ALRIGHT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES, YES. YES. WE GOOD? ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, THEN THIS MOTION HAS CARRIED, ALL WE HAVE LEFT IS MINUTES. RIGHT. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY WANT TO CHANGE TO THE MINUTES AS THEY WERE SENT TO US? OKAY. THEN I NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE THEM AS THEY ARE. MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTE AMENDMENTS AS THEY ARE. OKAY. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS MADE A MOTION TO SECOND AND COMMISSIONER REEVES A SECOND. IS THAT ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES, YES. YOU DID THAT VERY WELL. OKAY. THAT ONE HAS PASSED, I BELIEVE THAT CONCLUDES OUR BUSINESS FOR TODAY AND THEREFORE THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED AT 5 27. AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT, ACTUALLY, JUST JUST TO LET Y'ALL KNOW, THERE'S ALREADY A DALLAS MORNING NEWS ARTICLE OUT AND WFAA, IT WAS ON THE EVENING ALREADY. LIKE CHRISTINA. CHRISTINA, LIKE WE'RE EVEN THROUGH. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.