[00:00:01]
GOOD[Permit and License Appeal Board Special Called Meeting on April 16, 2026.]
MORNING.IT IS 8:45 AM ON APRIL 16TH, 2026.
THIS IS THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD.
PLEASE SAY PRESENT IF YOU ARE HERE.
MS. SHIN, GOSH, I DO KNOW YOU'RE HERE, BUT WE DO HAVE THE RECORD.
IF YOU CAN, CAN SHE RAISE HER HAND? WE'RE GONNA LIKE, IDEALLY WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER RECORD STATEMENT.
MR. QUINN? MR. CROW PRESENT? MR. JEFF IS ABSENT.
EXPECT HER LATER, BUT RIGHT NOW SHE'S ABSENT.
NOW, UM, MS. ELLA, ABSENT MS. SSON PRESENT, MS. NIK IS PRESENT.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 IS A FORM.
UM, SO WE ARE DULY CALLED TO ORDER.
UM, UH, BEFORE WE GO, WOULD, WOULD THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, PLEASE?
I MEANT, UH, I MEANT OUR CITY ATTORNEYS, OH, SORRY, MY BAD.
TERESA CARLISLE, UM, CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.
DONNA BROWN, NANCY SANCHEZ, UH, THE APPELLANT AND YOUR REPRESENTATIVE, AND HE'LL BE YOUR WITNESS.
UM, NOW IN THE CITY, UH,
YOU A WITNESS? SERGEANT EY WITH THE BE POLICE DEPART.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, IS THAT TRUE? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, A VERY QUICK WORD ABOUT THE BOARD.
UM, SO ANYTHING, UH, YOU WANT TO SAY SHOULD COME THROUGH MS. SANCHEZ? UM, UH, OUR BOARD, UH, DOES NOT MAKE LAW.
WE DO NOT ADJUDICATE CRIMINAL, UH, OR CIVIL UM, DECISIONS.
WE, WE ARE A, AN ADMINISTRATIVE BOARD OF THE, THE CITY OF DOUBT, UH, BY OUR, UM, OUR, UH, THE CODE THAT, THAT CREATES US, THE FORMAL RULES OF EVIDENCE DO NOT APPLY.
UM, WE HEAR AND CONSIDER EVIDENCE AND WEIGH IT.
UH, WE DO CARE ABOUT, UH, THE A PA, BUT, BUT WE ARE BY DEFINITION, UH, UH, LIBERAL.
UM, UH, WE ARE HERE TO DECIDE WHETHER THE CHIEF'S DETERMINATION IS, IS SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE.
OUR EVIDENCE STANDARD IS PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE AS WE DECIDE FACTS.
ONCE WE DECIDE FACTS, WE APPLY THAT TO THE RULES OF THE CODE.
I, I, I AM, UH, AWARE OF A CIVIL CASE THAT IS NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH, UH, DIFFERENT STANDARDS, DIFFERENT QUESTIONS.
UH, WE ARE AN ADMINISTRATIVE BODY, UH, NOT A LEGAL BODY.
UM, SO THAT SAID, UM, ALL QUESTIONS SHALL, UH, COME THROUGH THE PRESIDING OFFICER, AND, UH, I WOULD RULE ON, UH, PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS THE APPROVAL OF OUR MINUTES.
I WILL NOTE THAT OUR AGENDA SAYS THE MINUTES ARE APRIL FIVE.
IN FACT, THEY ARE APRIL 2ND, 2026.
[00:05:01]
ANYONE HAVE COMMENTS ON THOSE MINUTES OTHER THAN THE CHANGE IN DATE? HEARING NONE.UH, DO I HAVE A MOTION, A MOTION TO APPROVE AS AMENDED? SECOND.
UH, MS. THOMAS, ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
UH, FURTHER VOTES OR ROLL CALL.
AND, UH, THEY DON'T GIVE ME CASE NUMBERS PER SE.
UM, UM, SO THE CASE CALLED IS THE APPEAL HEARING FOR PANDORA'S MEN'S CLUB.
UM, THAT, THAT THIS IS THE REVOCATION.
I JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE THE CASE NUMBER IN FRONT OF ME WITH HELP.
UM, CITY ATTORNEY, WOULD YOU STATE THE, UM, THE STATUTE, UH, THE, THE CODE UNDER WHICH YOU BROUGHT THIS, UH, CHAPTER 14 A OF THE BALLOT CITY CODE? UM, 14.
JUST, UH, FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS THE REVOCATION AS OPPOSED TO THE DENIAL OF THE, UH, DANCE HALL LICENSE AND LATE HOURS PERMIT, UH, OF, UH, PANDORA'S MEN'S CLUB? THAT IS CORRECT.
NO, THAT'S, THAT'S FOR THE RECORD.
MS. CARLISLE'S QUESTION IS A GOOD ONE.
IT IS WHETHER WE'RE GONNA TAKE THESE TWO CASES TOGETHER OR SEPARATELY, THAT DEPENDS ON WHETHER, UH, THERE IS SEPARATE EVIDENCE FOR THE DENIAL, UM, OR WHETHER THE DENIAL PURELY RESTS ON THE RED PAGE.
I HAD NO IDEA WHAT SOMEONE JUST SAID.
UH, I CANNOT HEAR THE APPELLANT.
IS THAT BETTER? PLEASE HOLD YOUR THOUGHT.
UH, MR. SAXON, ARE YOU OKAY? OR ARE YOU MY BAD.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF US COULD HEAR THE APPELLANT.
WAS ANYONE ELSE ABLE TO I COULDN'T HEAR EITHER.
SO WE COULDN'T, WE CAN'T HEAR WHEN THE MICS OFF.
SO THE QUESTION WAS, UH, DO THE DENIALS REST ON THE RABBIT PAGE? I, I BELIEVE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THEM AS PURELY PROCEDURAL MATTERS THAT THE DENIALS WERE INAPPROPRIATE.
IT WILL NOT TAKE MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES TO, TO HANDLE THOSE TWO CASES.
PLA OH OH EIGHT AND PLA OH OH NINE, UH, THE, AND IT'S JUST PURELY PROCEDURAL ON WHAT THIS ORDINANCE SAYS AS COMPARED TO WHAT THE DENIAL LETTERS SAY.
I THINK I UNDERSTAND, YOUR HONOR.
UM, CITY, SO THE CITY'S POSITION IS THAT THE, THOSE DENIAL ARRESTS COMPLETELY ON THE REVOCATION OF PANDORA'S DANCEHALL LICENSE.
SO I BELIEVE THE BOARD HAS TO HEAR THAT ONE FIRST.
AND THE, UH, RESULT OF THAT HEARING WILL DETERMINE WHETHER THE DENIAL STAND.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
BUT WE, WE WILL FOLLOW OUR AGENDA.
UM, AND HERE THE REVOCATION, UH, FIRST, UM, EACH SIDE HAS, UH, A THREE MINUTE OPENING, A THREE MINUTE CLOSING.
UH, DON'T PRESENT EVIDENCE THERE THAT DOES NOT ACCOUNT AGAINST YOUR TIME.
OTHERWISE, EACH SIDE HAS 30 MINUTES.
[00:10:01]
YOUR CASE AND TO CROSS-EXAMINE, UH, ANY WITNESSES.ANSWERING ANY OF OUR QUESTIONS DOES NOT COUNT AGAINST YOUR, UH, CITY.
UM, PLEASE PRESENT YOUR, OH, YOU ALL RIGHT.
MS. UH, MS. CARLISLE, I WAS GOING TO READ THE CODE.
YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU AN APPEAL FOR A REVOCATION OF A DANCE HALL LICENSE IN A COMPANY LATE HOURS PROBATE SECTION 14 DASH 11 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE STATES, THE CHIEF OF POLICE SHALL REVOKE A DANCEHALL LICENSE.
IF THE CHIEF OF POLICE DETERMINES THAT ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE, A LICENSEE OR EMPLOYEE HAS KNOWINGLY ALLOWED PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES.
THE CHIEF OF POLICE FACE THE REVOCATION DECISION ON THIS PROVISION.
ADDITIONALLY, SECTION 14 DASH 3.1 STATES THAT THE LIGHT HOURS PERMIT IS CONSIDERED PART OF A DANCEHALL LICENSE AND IS ONLY VALID WHEN THE DANCEHALL LICENSE IT ACCUMBENS IS VALID.
THEREFORE, ONCE A DANCEHALL LICENSE WAS REVOKED, THE CHIEF POLICE ALSO REVOKED THE LIGHT HALL, THE LIGHT HOURS PERMIT.
IT IS THE DUTY OF THIS BOARD TO EVALUATE THE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY PRESENTED BEFORE YOU TODAY AND DETERMINED WHETHER THE LICENSEE OR AN EMPLOYEE KNOWINGLY ALLOWED PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES.
IF THIS BOARD FINDS THAT THE LICENSEE OR AN EMPLOYEE DID KNOWINGLY ALLOW PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES, THEN THE BOARD MAY AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
IF, HOWEVER, THE BOARD FINDS THAT THE LICENSEE OR EMPLOYEE DID NOT KNOWINGLY ALLOW PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES, THEN THE BOARD MAY REVERSE THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
MS. CARLA DOES, DOES OUR CITY ATTORNEY HAVE A, AN OPINION ON, UH, WHICH EVIDENCE, UH, COUNTS ALLAH? UH, THE EVIDENCE BEFORE AND AFTER THE, UH, NOTICE THAT THE, UH, THAT WAS GIVEN, THIS BOARD SHOULD CONSIDER EVIDENCE ALL EVIDENCE THAT WAS PRESENTED PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE LETTER REVOCATION.
SO EVERYTHING BEFORE JANUARY 6TH, 2026.
AS A CHAIR, I, I WOULD SAY THAT WE, WE ARE NOT GOING TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE.
UM, WE, WE AS THE BOARD, UH, HAVE TO WEIGH, UH, POST EVIDENCE AND, AND, AND THERE, THERE MAY BE A SITUATION WHERE, WHERE WE, WHERE THERE'S AN ARGUMENT ABOUT, UH, ABOUT ONGOING REMEDIATION.
BUT, BUT USE POST, UH, POST NOTICE INFORMATION CAREFULLY AND, AND, UH, UH, YOU SHOULD NOT RELY YOUR DECI, YOUR DECISIONS SHOULD NOT PRIMARILY RELY ON EVIDENCE THAT COMES AFTER.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE WARD, AGAIN, MY NAME IS SVA O'REILLY, AND I'M HERE TODAY REPRESENTING THE DALLAS POLICE CHIEF.
I'M GONNA MAKE THIS BRIEF SO THAT YOU CAN HEAR FROM OUR WITNESS AS THE DPD SERGEANT WHO CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH THE BACK TO THE STATE'S MUCH BETTER THAN I CAN.
WHAT YOU'RE HEARING TODAY, AS YOU HEARD, IS AN APPEAL OF THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S REVOCATION OF A DANCEHALL LICENSE FOR PANDORA'S MEN'S CLUB.
DUE TO THE OPERATOR KNOWINGLY ALLOWING PROSECUTION TO OCCUR ON THE PASSIVE, YOU WILL HEAR THAT THIS LOCATION HAS A LONG HISTORY OF OPERATING AS A SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS, WHICH WOULD BE MORE COMMONLY KNOWN AS A STRIP CLUB OR A GENTLEMAN'S CLUB WHO RELINQUISHED THEIR SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS LICENSE IN ORDER TO AVOID RECENT REGULATIONS REQUIRING SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS TO CLOSE AT 2:00 AM.
BUT INSTEAD OF CHANGING THEIR BUSINESS PRACTICE, THEY CONTINUE TO OPERATE AS AN ILLEGAL STRIP CLUB WHERE MANAGEMENT NOT ONLY KNOWINGLY ALLOWED, BUT FACILITATED AND PROFITED FROM PROSTITUTION OCCURRING INSIDE THE CLUB.
ON DECEMBER 7TH, 2025, BPD CONDUCTED A LICENSING INSPECTION AT PANDORA'S, NOT EVEN UNDERCOVER.
THEY WERE IN UNIFORM, AND THEY WALKED TO THE BACK OF THE CLUB AND CAUGHT AN EMPLOYEE ENGAGED IN SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A PATIENT, THE EMPLOYEE.
SO BE CAREFUL NOT TO, NOT TO TESTIFY HERE THIS IS OR, OR, OR PROVIDE EVIDENCE.
THIS IS JUST TELL US WHAT YOU'RE GONNA TELL US, RIGHT? THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE GONNA HEAR FROM OUR WITNESS.
AND, UH, INTERVIEWS FOLLOWING THAT ARREST CONFIRMED THAT IT WAS PROSTITUTION AND THAT THE MANAGER WAS INVOLVED.
SO DPD THEN PROCEEDED TO REVOKE THEIR GAS LAW LICENSE.
FOLLOWING THAT INSPECTION, DPD CONDUCTED MULTIPLE INVESTIGATIONS AND FOUND THAT PROSTITUTION WAS NOT ONLY CONTINUING, BUT THAT WAS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS.
CLEARLY NOT ONLY SANCTIONED, BUT ORGANIZED BY MANAGEMENT.
IT WOULD TAKE A CUT OF THE MONEY THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES MAKE.
WE'RE HERE TODAY TO DEFEND DPDS REVOCATION OF PANDORA STANDS HALL LICENSE.
AND ULTIMATELY, ALL WE NEED TO SHOW WHAT IS ONE INCIDENT OF, UH, ALLOWING PROSTITUTION TO OCCUR ON S WHICH WE WILL CLEARLY SHOW.
AND IN THIS CASE, NOT ONLY DID THAT OCCUR, BUT IT CONTINUED TO HAPPEN ON AND ON AFTER THAT.
IN FACT, THIS LOCATION WAS OPERATING MORE
[00:15:01]
LIKE A BROTHEL THAN A NIGHTCLUB.ONCE YOU HEARD THE EVIDENCE, IT'LL BE CLEAR THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE DECISION THAT CAN BE MADE TODAY, AND THAT IT'S TO UPHOLD B'S REPLICATION OF PANDORA'S DAN LICENSE, WHICH IN TURN ALSO RESULTS IN UPHOLDING THE DENIAL OF THEIR RENEWAL APPLICATION AND THE DENIAL OF
UH, WE WILL, UH, OUR EVIDENCE WILL SHOW THAT A LOT OF WHAT, UH, MS. RILEY HAS JUST, UH, SUGGESTED IS NOT ACCURATE.
I WOULD REQUEST THAT WE NOT BE DEFAMED IN THIS PRESENTATION.
I'VE HEARD THE WORD BROTHEL USED ON AND ON, AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.
AND IT IS MISLEADING AS TO WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON IN THIS CLUB.
YET THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS CONTINUALLY TRIED TO ASSERT THAT, THAT WORD, AND IT IS MISLEADING AND WILL REQUEST THAT THAT WORD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE USED IN THIS HEARING.
THE, UM, UM, I'M ASSUMING BROTHEL IS NOT A, UH, FORMAL TERM, BUT I BELIEVE SHE SAID LIKE A BROTHEL.
UH, HOWEVER, UM, UH, YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN AND, UM, UM, UNLESS IT'S, UNLESS YOU FIND IT NECESSARY, I THINK THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO DISCUSS THE ACTUAL ISSUES AT HAND, WHICH IS PROSTITUTION AND THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
I, I WANT PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THE EVIDENCE PUT ON BY THE CITY, UH, I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THE CHAIR.
I DO NOT THINK THAT EVIDENCE AFTER JANUARY, AFTER THE REVOCATION LETTER OF JANUARY 5TH, I DON'T THINK EVIDENCE COMING IN AFTER THAT DATE IS RELEVANT IN ANY WAY.
IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN RELEVANT TO THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S DECISION TO REVOKE THE LICENSE ON JANUARY 5TH.
SO I SAID WE'LL ACCEPT IT AND THAT WE, WE SHOULD NOT, NOT THAT IT, I DON'T, I THINK IT SHOULD BE EXCLUDED.
I DON'T SEE HOW, HOW IT COULD POSSIBLY BE ON THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S ATTENTION, HOW HE COULD POSSIBLY RELY ON INFORMATION THAT COMES IN LATER THAT, UH, ALLOWS FOR A REVOCATION TO OCCUR.
AND, AND, UH, MAKE THAT ARGUMENT IN, IN YOUR TIME.
WE'LL MAKE, IT'S ON THE RECORD FOR THE, UM, AND, AND, UH, UH, THE BOARD SHOULD BE REAL CAREFUL ABOUT USING THAT, THAT POST NOTIFICATION.
'CAUSE WE ARE HERE TO EVALUATE THE CHIEF'S DECISION WHEN THE CHIEF MADE CHIEF DECISION.
BUT WE, WE HAVE LIBERAL RULES OF EVIDENCE.
AND, AND IT IS THE BOARD'S JOB TO WEIGH IT DIFFERENTLY.
I JUST, I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT, UH, OUR, OUR EVIDENCE, OUR EVIDENCE WILL SHOW THAT, UH, THE, THAT THE, UH, THE, THE, THE APPELLANT WAS NOT SEEKING TO AVOID REGULATIONS AS IS INTIMATED BY MS. RILEY IN HER OPENING STATEMENT.
IT WAS A CHANGE OF BUSINESS MODEL.
AND, UM, I, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT CAN BE HELD AGAINST THE APPELLANT FOR CHANGING BUSINESS MODEL.
UM, BUT OUR EVIDENCE WILL, WILL, WILL ADDRESS THE CITY'S ISSUES AND COME FROM THANK YOU, SIR.
30 MINUTES TO USE AS YOU, UH, SEE FIT.
UH, ANY WITNESS YOU CALL CAN BE CROSS EXAMINED, UM, AND, UH, BOARD MEMBERS WILL ASK QUESTIONS.
THE CITY WOULD CALL SERGEANT EY, IF WE CAN DO THIS ALL AT ONCE, IF YOU INTEND TO, UH, TESTIFY IN THIS CASE, WOULD YOU PLEASE BE SWORN IN? I'LL DO IT.
UH, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
UH, I SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL, UH, OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
AND THEY, THEY'VE GOT THE, AND JUST KNOW WHEN YOU GET TO TWO MINUTES, IT'S GONNA MAKE A NOISE.
DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT.
CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? SERGEANT PATTY YASSI.
AND HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? I AM EMPLOYED BY THE CITY OF DALLAS THROUGH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND HOW LONG YOU, YOU WORKED IN THAT CAPACITY? I'VE BEEN A DALLAS POLICE OFFICER FOR ALMOST 22 YEARS.
AND WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT ROLE? I AM THE SUPERVISOR OVER THE VICE LICENSING AND INSPECTIONS UNIT.
AND CAN YOU BRIEFLY DESCRIBE WHAT YOUR MAIN RESPONSIBILITIES ARE? OUR MAIN RESPONSIBILITIES ARE INVESTIGATING, APPROVING, OR DENYING OR SUSPENDING, UH,
[00:20:01]
LICENSE LOCATIONS WITHIN THE CITY OF DALLAS.THAT COULD BE, UH, SOB LOCATIONS KNOWN AS SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES, UH, BILLIARD HALLS, DANCE HALLS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
AND WHEN YOU SAY SOBS OR SEXUALLY LIVE, WHAT TYPE OF IS IS, UH, THAT COULD BE GENTLEMAN'S CLUBS, UH, LIKE WE'RE HERE TODAY REGARDING, OR, UH, ADULT BOOKSTORES, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
AND THE CITY REQUIRES A SPECIAL LIFE IBLE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH PANDORA MVA LOCATED AT 1 0 6 1 9
AND HOW ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT? UH, IT HAS BEEN THE FOCUS OF AN INVESTIGATION, WHICH BEGAN AROUND NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
AND HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE BUSINESS OF OPERATING? UH, SO I WOULD DESCRIBE IT AS A PLACE THAT YOU WENT TO PURCHASE SEX.
ANYTHING ELSE? UH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS A PLACE THAT, UH, USED TO HAVE AN SOB PERMIT.
THEY SUBSEQUENTLY RELINQUISHED THAT, UM, WE RECEIVED MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS REGARDING SEX TRAFFICKING AT THE LOCATION.
UH, AND AT THAT POINT WE BEGAN TO OPEN AN INVESTIGATION ON IT.
SO YOU SAID THEY DID HAVE A SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS LICENSE, BUT THAT THEN RELINQUISH THAT LICENSE.
DO YOU KNOW
AND DO THEY ALSO HAVE A DANCE HALL LICENSE AND A LATE HOURS PERMIT AT THAT LOCATION? THEY DID AT THAT TIME, CORRECT.
AND WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HAVING A SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS LICENSE RELATED TO THEIR OPERATING? SO, UH, YOU KNOW, RECENTLY THE CITY OF DALLAS DETERMINED THAT THE UPTICK IN VIOLENT CRIME ASSOCIATED WITH SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES THAT WERE OPEN AFTER 2:00 AM WAS FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT.
UM, THEY SUBSEQUENTLY ENACTED LEGISLATION THAT SAID THEY HAD TO CLOSE AT 2:00 AM.
UH, AFTER THAT WAS, UH, ENACTED, UH, I BELIEVE IN THE LAST CITY COUNCIL MEETING, THEY, UH, PRESENTED EVIDENCE THAT VIOLENT CRIME ASSOCIATED WITH SHOOTINGS, MURDERS, AGGRAVATED ROBBERIES, UH, WENT DOWN 97%.
UH, SO PLACES THAT WANTED TO, UH, TAP INTO THE, THE CLIENTELE BASE BETWEEN TWO AND 4:00 AM UH, ULTIMATELY HAD TO RELINQUISH THEIR SOV AND JUST OPERATE WITH THE USE OF A DANCE HALL PERMIT WITH LAY HOURS.
AND SINCE THE CITY STARTED ENFORCING THIS REGULATION, HAVE YOU SEEN A TREND OF SOME SEXUALLY ORIENTED OF RELINQUISHING THEIR SEXUALLY ORIENTED VISITS LICENSE SO THEY COULD COOPERATE LATER AROUND? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THIS SPECIFIC LOCATION, PANDORA'S, WAS IT HISTORICALLY KNOWN FOR SUMMER COUPLE OR PROSTATE CENTERS? UH, BEFORE MY JOB IN THE VICE LICENSING UNIT, I WAS AN UNDERCOVER NARCOTICS DETECTIVE FOR 12 YEARS.
AND I CAN SAY THAT ALMOST DURING MY ENTIRE TIME, I AM AWARE OF PROSTITUTION CASES BEING MADE, UH, INSIDE THAT LOOP.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFIC INCIDENT.
THAT'S THE REASON WE'RE HERE TODAY.
DID YOU GO TO PANDORA'S ON DECEMBER 7TH, 2025 TO GET BACK FROM BED? I DID.
AND WHAT DID YOU FIND AT THAT TIME? UH, SO WE ARRIVED, UH, DECEMBER 7TH.
UH, MYSELF AND MY UNIT, UH, WERE MET AT THE DOOR BY MANAGEMENT, AT WHICH POINT WE, UH, BEGAN A CONVERSATION WITH HIM.
UH, TWO OF MY GUYS WENT INSIDE TO CONDUCT AN INSPECTION INSIDE.
THEY IMMEDIATELY, EXCUSE ME, UH, MADE THEIR WAY TO WHAT'S ESSENTIALLY, UH, WAS LABELED THE VIP ROOM.
UH, AS SOON AS THEY ROUNDED THE CORNER, THEY OBSERVED A MALE PATRON RECEIVING A LAP DANCE, UH, IN PLAIN VIEW INSIDE THE LOCATION.
IT WAS AT THAT TIME THAT MY DETECTIVE CAME TO ME AND SAID, THEY'RE OPERATING AS AN SOV.
UH, HE MADE THE DETERMINATION THAT WE SHOULD MAKE AN ARREST OF THE MANAGER FOR THE VIOLATION OF THE SOV ORDINANCE.
UH, HE WENT AHEAD AND LOOKED THROUGH THE REST OF THE LOCATION.
UH, AT THE BACK OF THE ROOM, THERE WAS ESSENTIALLY FOUR BOOTHS, I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL 'EM, THAT WERE CORDED OFF.
UM, HE WENT TO CHECK EACH ONE, AND AS HE CHECKED THE LAST ONE, AS HE MADE THE CORNER, HE OBSERVED ONE OF THE EMPLOYEES, ONE OF THE GIRLS, UH, ENGAGED IN VAGINAL SEX, A COMPLETELY NUDE, WITH A COMPLETELY NUDE PATRON INSIDE THE VIPD.
AND WAS THIS ACT CAPTURED ON BODY CAMERA? YES, IT WAS.
AND DID YOU END UP ARRESTING ANYONE? UH,
[00:25:01]
SO THAT NIGHT WE MADE THREE ARRESTS.UH, ALL PARTIES WERE TRANSPORTED TO, UH, OUR, OUR, UH, DALLAS POLICE HEADQUARTERS.
UH, ALL THREE WERE MIRANDIZED AND ALL THREE GAVE A STATEMENT RELATED TO, UH, THEIR ARRESTS.
SO THEY MADE, UH, YOU KNOW, POST MIRANDA, UH, PENAL INTEREST STATEMENTS.
UH, ONE WAS ARRESTED FOR THE PROSTITUTION.
UH, THE MALE PATRON WAS ARRESTED FOR PROSTITUTION BUYER, AND THE MANAGER WAS ARRESTED FOR THE SOB VIOLATION.
AND IN INTERVIEWING THESE PERSONS, YOU WERE ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT THERE WAS PROSTITUTION OCCURRING THIS CASE SPECIFICALLY, AND, AND OTHER, OTHER CASES, AND THAT THE MANAGER WASN'T AWARE OF IT? UH, I WOULD STATE THAT NOT ONLY WAS MANAGEMENT AWARE, BUT THE, UH, FEMALE EMPLOYEE STATED THAT AFTER THE SOB UH, LICENSE WAS RELINQUISHED, HER STATEMENT WAS, MANAGEMENT CAME TO HER AND SAID THAT THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO FOCUS ON PROSTITUTION INSIDE THE BUSINESS.
THAT THERE WAS NOT GONNA BE ANY MORE LAP DANCES OR ANY MORE INTERACTION THAT WOULD BE ALONG THE LINES OF AN SOB, WHICH STILL WOULD'VE BEEN IN VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE, BUT THEY WERE GOING TO FOCUS ON MAXIMIZING THE PROFIT.
AND THOSE INSTRUCTIONS CAME FROM THEN THE MANAGER AT THE LOCATION.
AND, UH, FOLLOWING THIS INSPECTION, DID YOU GO BACK AND DO ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION AT THE LOCATION? UH, THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DID OUR INITIAL INSPECTION, WHICH WAS IN FULL POLICE UNIFORM WITH RAID JACKETS THAT SAID DALLAS POLICE.
AND SO MY CONCERN WAS WHAT WE WOULD FIND IF WE, UH, WENT BACK IN AN UNDERCOVER CAPACITY BASED ON THE DECEMBER 7TH, UM, INSPECTION.
DID YOU DPD REVOKE PANDORA'S DAN? THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT'S BASED ON, IT WAS BASED ON KNOWINGLY NOT ONLY ALLOWING, BUT IN MY OPINION, PROMOTING PROSTITUTION INSIDE THE BUSINESS.
AND FOLLOWING THE REVOCATION, CONTINUING TO DO UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATIONS.
WERE YOU ABLE TO DOCUMENT ENOUGH ONGOING PROSTITUTION FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS TO FILE A COMMON
AND WAS THE MANAGER EVENTUALLY ARRESTED FOR AGGRAVATED PROMOTION OF PRO CHIEF? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO INTERVIEW HIM? I DID.
AND WERE YOU ABLE TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE PROPERTY? UH, THE MANAGER WAS DURING OUR UNDERCOVER OPERATIONS, OBSERVED CARRYING A FIREARM INSIDE THE BUSINESS, WHICH WAS CAPTURED ON VIDEO, UM, SUBSEQUENT INVESTIGATION, AND HIM RE UH, REVEALED HIM TO BE A CONVICTED FELON.
UH, WE THEN DID AN INVESTIGATION RELATED TO HIS INVOLVEMENT WITH THE BUSINESS AND WERE ABLE TO TAKE HIM INTO CUSTODY, UH, IN ARLINGTON.
AT THAT TIME, HE WAS STILL IN POSSESSION OF THE FIREARM, UH, IN VIOLATION OF, UH, TEXAS PENAL CODE FOR A FELON IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM.
UH, PANDORA'S IS NOW IN WHAT THEY CALL A PSN, WHICH NOW ALLOWS US TO INVESTIGATE SOME SERIOUS CRIMES.
FEDERALLY, UH, THAT MANAGER WAS THEN, UH, FORWARDED TO, UH, FEDERAL PROSECUTION, OR NOT ONLY THE GUN CHARGE, BUT THE AGGRAVATED PROMOTION OF PROSTITUTION WARRANT, WHICH WE HAD FILED.
SINCE THAT TIME, WE HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO PROFFER HIM WHILE HE'S IN FEDERAL CUSTODY WITH HIS ATTORNEY.
AND HE HAS MADE, UH, SOME SIGNIFICANT, UH, GIVEN US SOME SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION RELATED TO HOW THIS, UH, ORGANIZATION CONDUCTS VISITS.
AND DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE REVOCATION OF THE DANCE HALL LICENSE WAS JUSTIFIED AND SHOULD BE A HELP? I CERTAINLY DO.
WELL, I'M SORRY, MA, MAKE SURE YOU STOP THE CITY'S TIME AND, UH, START THERE.
THE MOST RECENT THING YOU WERE DISCUSSING WAS ABOUT A MANAGER BEING ARRESTED FOR PROMOTING PROSTITUTION IN ARLINGTON.
DO YOU RECALL WHO THAT MANAGER? HI, HIS NAME IS, UH, JAMAL WASHINGTON, IS THE GENTLEMAN'S NAME THAT WE ARRESTED.
AND WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT JAMAL WASHINGTON WAS A MANAGER AT PANDORA'S? UH, THE GIRLS ALL REFERRED TO HIM AS THE MANAGER IN CHARGE OF THE BUSINESS THAT WE WERE MAKING CASES OF.
IF YOU LOOKED AT HIS SOCIAL MEDIA, UH, ACCOUNTS, UH, HE BASICALLY WAS PURPORTING HIMSELF TO BE THE MANAGER OF THE PANDORA'S DALLAS LOCATION.
UH, SUBSEQUENT TO HIS ARREST, WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE SEARCH WARRANTS
[00:30:01]
ON HIS PHONE AND HAVE SEEN SIGNIFICANT COMMUNICATION BETWEEN HIM AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE BUSINESS.BUT, UH, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN ANY OF PANDORA'S APPLICATIONS THAT SAY THAT MR. WASHINGTON IS A MANAGER, DO YOU? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE, UH, YOU HAVEN'T PRODUCED ANYTHING IN TERMS OF DOCUMENTATION SHOWING THAT MR. WASHINGTON IS A MANAGER, DO? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND, AND YOU HAVEN'T PRODUCED THIS BODY CAMERA VIDEO, WHICH PURPORTEDLY SHOWS A, A SEX ACT OCCURRING IN THE PREMISES.
I BELIEVE WE HAVE IT WITH YOU, BUT YOU HAVEN'T PRIOR TO THIS HEARING, HAVE YOU PRODUCED IT TO ME? TO ME BELIEVE WE, NO, WE HAVEN'T.
UM, HAVE YOU SHARED IT WITH, WITH, WITH, UH, OPPOSING COUNSEL? WE HAVEN'T.
WE DIDN'T SUBMIT IT AS PART OF OUR EVIDENCE.
WE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS NECESSARY.
WE'LL, WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT IF YOU CHOOSE TO, TO ENTER IT.
SO, UH, SERGEANT HASSEY WOULD, WOULD YOU BE SURPRISED IF, UH, IT IS DETERMINED THAT, UH, THIS MR. WASHINGTON WAS NOT A MANAGER, WAS NOT AN EMPLOYEE, AND WAS NOT, UH, DIRECTLY AFFILIATED WITH PANDORA'S MINGS CLUB? UH, TO BE HONEST, DURING OUR INTERVIEW WITH HIM, HE ACTUALLY STATED AS SUCH BECAUSE HE FELT LIKE THEY WANTED, UH, HE EVEN SAID THAT THEY PAID HIM IN CASH BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAD SOMEBODY THAT WOULD BE A FALL GUY THAT WAS NOT ON THE BOOKS OR ON PAPERWORK WITH THE BUSINESS.
THAT WAS A LITTLE NONRESPONSIVE, BUT I, I UNDERSTAND.
UM, YOU'RE ON THE RECORD, IN FACT.
UM, ISN'T, DID, DID MR. WASHINGTON TELL YOU THAT HE WAS AN, AN INDEPENDENT PROMOTER THAT REPRESENTS VARIOUS CLUBS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF DALLAS? DID HE TELL YOU THAT? UH, HE DID NOT SAY THAT.
DURING, UM, YOU STATED, UH, THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS AN ALLEGED LAP DANCE OCCURRING IN THIS DANCE HALL, UH, THIS COMPANY WAS THEREFORE OPERATING AS AN SOB, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION OF SPECIFIED ANATOMICAL AREAS? UH, I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, VAGINAL AREAS OR AREAS ON A MALE WHERE HIS, HIS PRIVATE PARTS ARE LOCATED, I GUESS.
UM, ARE YOU AWARE THAT IN ORDER TO BE CLASSIFIED AS A SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS, YOU MUST BE EITHER EXPOSING SPECIFIED ANATOMICAL AREAS OR ENGAGING IN SPECIFIED SEXUAL ACTIVITIES? YES.
SO IF SPECIFIED ANATOMICAL AREAS, UH, ARE THE TOP OF THE AREOLA TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BREAST OR SOME OF THE ITEMS YOU MENTIONED, WAS ANY OF THAT OBSERVED AT THE LOCATION? YES.
AND DID YOU MAKE ANY OF THAT IN ANY OF YOUR REPORTS AS TO WHY YOU DETERMINED THIS WAS A SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS RE RELATED TO THE ARREST OF THE MANAGER RELATED TO THE DOCUMENTS WHICH HAVE BEEN PRODUCED TO BE, I DON'T SEE ANY REFERENCE TO THE BASIS FOR THIS BEING AN SOB OTHER THAN HAVING A LAP DANCE.
ISN'T THAT CORRECT? UH, WE LITERALLY OBSERVED A FEMALE PERFORMER HAVING INTERCOURSE WITH EVERYTHING EXPOSED DURING OUR INSPECTION.
BUT THERE IS NOT, UH, THE, THE, THE, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE SOB ORDINANCE PROVIDES THAT YOU MUST BE REGULARLY FEATURING ENTERTAINMENT THAT'S EXPOSING SPECIFIED ANATOMICAL AREAS IN ORDER TO BE AN SOB? YES.
UH, I, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, GO THROUGH, UM, UH, FOR REFERENCE FOR EVERYONE.
I'M LOOKING AT THE CITY'S, UH, PRESENTATION, UH, AND I CAN REFERENCE IT BY PAGE NUMBER.
UM, I, I WANNA, I WANT TO GO TO PAGE 61 OF THE CITY'S, UH, EVIDENCE THAT WAS PROVIDED.
DO YOU HAVE THAT AVAILABLE, SERGEANT HASSEY? I DO NOT.
[00:35:05]
POINT OF INFORMATION, SIR.UH, JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, THE WAY THE, SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU.
UH, BUT TO BE CLEAR, THE SECOND, UH, I GUESS HEARING THAT'S ON THE AGENDA CONTAINS THAT INFORMATION THAT APPELLANT'S ATTORNEY IS REFERENCING.
IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT? THAT IS WHAT WE'RE, OKAY.
UH, WE, WE, WE HAVE ACCEPTED THAT INTO, INTO EVIDENCE, UM, BUT YES, YOU ARE.
SO SERGEANT HASSID, DO YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU NOW? I CERTAINLY DO.
SO ON PAGE 61, DO YOU SEE SOMETHING CALLED A OFFENSE BREAKDOWN FOR PANDORA'S MEN'S CLUB? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND PRIOR TO JANUARY 6TH, UH, 2026, UM, THERE WERE THREE OBSERVED VIOLATIONS ON THE PREMISES, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT LOOKS TO BE CORRECT ON US.
AND ONE OF THOSE WAS A VEHICLE ACCIDENT NUMBER ONE, IS THAT TRUE? THAT'S WHAT IT SAID, YES.
AND NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER THREE WAS, UH, SOMEONE DISCARDING, DISREGARDING A TRAFFIC LIGHT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THOSE REALLY AREN'T ANY KIND OF BASIS FOR, UM, UM, REVOKING A DANCE HALL LICENSE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UM, IN, IN NUMBER, IN NUMBER TWO, AND, AND WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT.
UM, IT'S YOUR POSITION THAT THE SOLE BASIS FOR THE REVOCATION OF THE LICENSE OF THE DANCEHALL LICENSE WAS KNOWINGLY ALLOWING PROSTITUTION, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, THESE, THESE ITEMS ARE COVERED IN, UH, STARTING ON PAGE, STARTING ON PAGE 73 OF, OF THE CITY'S EVIDENCE, AND THE, THERE'S A 15 PAGE REPORT REGARDING THIS INCIDENT.
AND I, I WANTED TO GO SPECIFICALLY TO PAGE 78.
AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE, UH, IT SAYS ON 1217 YOU ARRESTED A MR Y-A-N-N-I-E-R, WHO WAS FOUND TO BE OPERATING SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS.
IS THAT THE MANAGER WHO WAS, UH, ON THE PREMISES THE NIGHT THAT YOU WERE THERE ON DECEMBER 7TH? UH, HE IS ONE OF THEM, THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, IN THE THIRD PARAGRAPH, UH, IT TALKS ABOUT, UH, MR. Y BEING TRANSPORTED TO, UH, 1400 BAAM GENE, UH, POLICE HEADQUARTERS, AND HE WAS CHARGED AND WITH NO INCIDENT.
IS THAT A FAIR REPRESENTATION OF THAT THIRD PARAGRAPH? I'M SORRY, YOU'LL HAVE TO PAGE 79, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.
I'M ON, I'M ON, I'M MOVED ON TO THE NEXT PAGE.
THE THIRD PARAGRAPH, IT STARTS WITH ARRESTED PERSON GONZALEZ MESA YANGE.
THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SAYS VICE LICENSING UNIT, SECOND LICENSE SAYS ARRESTED PERSON.
AND THE THIRD PER PARAGRAPH SAYS, ARRESTED PERSON, MR. YOUNG.
YOU SEE WHERE I AM? UH, NO, BUT I'M TOLD, AND I DON'T FOLLOW OFF AS WELL.
ON ENTERING THE ESTABLISHMENT, IS THAT THE ONE? NO, SIR.
THE PARAGRAPH RIGHT ABOVE THAT, THE SENTENCE RIGHT ABOVE THAT ARRESTED PERSON F WAS CHARGED WITH VIOLATION OF 1441 A DASH 14.3.
AND WAS TRANSFERRED WITH NO INCIDENT.
IS THAT CORRECT? UH, SO WHEN DETECTIVES SAY NO INCIDENT, WHAT THEY MEAN IS HE WAS IN GOOD HEALTH.
IT, IT'S NOT RELATED TO THE, THE ACTUAL CHARGE OR THE OFFENSE THAT OCCURRED AT THE MOMENT.
BUT HE WAS NOT FOUND, UH, HOLDING ANY WEAPONS.
AND HE WASN'T FOUND WITH ANY DRUGS, CORRECT?
[00:40:01]
THAT'S CORRECT.UM, SO IN THE, IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH, YOU, YOU, DID YOU WRITE THIS, THIS INCIDENT REPORT? I DID NOT.
AND, AND WHAT DETECTIVE WAS THAT? UH, DETECTIVE ES.
IS HE HERE TODAY? NO, HE'S NOT.
UM, SO IN THAT NEXT PARAGRAPH, HE SAID THAT THE PATRON, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARAGRAPH, HE SAYS, BOTH PATRON AND DANCER WERE ENGAGING IN PHYSICAL CONTACT PROHIBITED WITHOUT A VALID SOB LICENSE.
DID I READ THAT CORRECTLY? THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.
AND THE SOB, THE DANCE HALL ORDINANCE DOES NOT PROHIBIT PHYSICAL CONTACT FOR THE PATRON, DOES IT? UH, I'D HAVE TO RELOOK AT THE ORDINANCE, BUT IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT LAP DANCES WERE NOT ALLOWED UNLESS WE HAD, SO THREE.
OKAY, WELL, THAT'S A, AN, AN INTERESTING INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW, BUT THAT THAT IS NOT ACCURATE.
UM, AND THEN, AND, UM, ON, UH, I'M GONNA ASK, REFER YOU TO PAGE 81 FOR JUST A MINUTE, AND THEN THE PEN MIDDLE OF THE PAGE, IT SAYS, CHARGE PUBLIC LEWDNESS.
SAYS ON DECEMBER 7TH, APPROXIMATELY ONE 15 ARRESTED PERSON MR. Y WAS FOUND ENGAGING IN A SEXUAL ACT.
THAT'S NOT CORRECT, IS IT MR. Y IS THE MANAGER THAT'S SHOULD A HYPO? IT SHOULD BE, YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THAT, THAT SHOULD BE THE OTHER GENTLEMAN, MR. YEAH, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN VEGA.
AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE WHERE IT SAYS, CHARGED PROSTITUTION SAYS ON DECEMBER 7TH AT ONE 15, ARRESTED PERSON, MR. Y WAS FOUND PAYING FOR A SEXUAL FAVOR.
THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN, UH, MR. NAVA? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND ON THE NEXT PAGE, PAGE 82, IT SAYS, CHARGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE, IT SAYS CHARGE POSSESSION.
THEN THAT SAYS, UM, IT SAYS ON DECEMBER 7TH, THE ARRESTED PERSON, MR. Y WAS FOUNDED IN POSSESSION OF COCAINE, AT LEAST THERE AT JAIL.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT CORRECT, IS IT? THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT WAS THE, UH, MALE H TAKING.
AND, AND THERE, THERE ARE MORE INSTANCES OF THIS, UH, ON PAGE 84, AND I DON'T KNOW, IT SAYS PAGE 12 OF 15 IN THE INCIDENT REPORT, AND IT AGAIN, ASSERTS THAT MR. YIE WAS FOUND ENGAGING IN A SEXUAL ACT, BUT, BUT THAT'S NOT CORRECT, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, UH, MR. YIE WAS FOUND PAYING FOR A SEXUAL FAVOR, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.
THAT WAS MR. DAVID, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE DOING, I DO JUST WANNA, THIS DOES COUNT AGAINST YOUR PRESENTATION TIME.
YOU, YOUR, YOUR SOLE EVIDENCE PROSTITUTION OCCURRING ON THE PREMISES PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE REVOCATION WAS PURPORTED STATEMENTS FROM AN ENTERTAINER NAMED MS. DARLING.
IS THAT CORRECT? UH, HER STATEMENTS, THE STATEMENTS OF THE GENTLEMAN WHO WAS PAYING FOR SEX, UH, BASICALLY HE MADE STATEMENTS INDICATING THAT HE HAD TO PAY MANAGEMENT, UH, A, A DIFFERENT FEE TO GET A DIFFERENT COLORED WRISTBAND BEFORE BEING ABLE TO ENGAGE WITH, UH, THE FEMALE EMPLOYEE FOR SEX.
SO HIS STATEMENT, OKAY, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION.
I'M SORRY, I I'LL LET YOU GO ON A LITTLE BIT.
UM, IN, IN FACT, BUT YOU, YOU, YOU WEREN'T THERE FOR THOSE CONVERSATIONS, WERE YOU? I WAS IN THE OFFICE AND I WAS, BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE CONVERSATION WITH, UH, THIS, THIS ENTERTAINER, THIS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, MS. DARLING, YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH HER, DID YOU? I WASN'T THE ONE DOING THE INTERVIEWS.
AND, AND YOU DIDN'T DO THE INTERVIEW WITH THE MR. MR. VEGA, THE PATRON WHO'S ACCUSED OF THESE, UM,
[00:45:01]
OF ENGAGING IN PROSTITUTION, CORRECT? NO, MY DETECTIVE.SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF, OF ANY OF THESE FACTS.
DO YOU WATCH THE INTERVIEW, INTERVIEW ROOM WHILE THEY WERE HAPPENING? DOES THAT COUNT? NO, SIR.
WE ACCEPT HEARSAY IN THIS COURT OR IN THIS, UH, AND, AND, AND I UNDERSTAND SOMETIMES, BUT WE CAN'T GET TOO FAR ALONG.
WE'VE GOT HEARSAY WITHIN HEARSAY WITHIN HEARSAY.
SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S MY POINT.
SO, UM, UH, IN YOUR, IN YOUR PRESENTATION, YOU SAID THAT THERE WERE MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS ABOUT SEX TRAFFICKING.
UH, DID YOU PRESENT ANY EVIDENCE? IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTATION PRESENTED TO US TODAY THAT TALKS ABOUT COMPLAINTS ABOUT SEX TRAFFICKING HAVING OCCURRED? UH, ARE WE SPEAKING PREVIOUS TO DECEMBER 7TH OR CURRENT? NO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SEX TRAFFICKING.
WHEN, WHEN YOU SAID, YOU SAID IT PROBABLY WAS, UM, PRIOR TO JANUARY 5TH, THAT WAS THE DATE OF THE REVOCATION.
THERE WERE MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS ABOUT SEX TRAFFICKING.
AND DO YOU, DID YOU THERE ANYTHING IN THIS 150, SOME PAGES OF EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT THERE WERE COMPLAINTS ABOUT SEX TRAFFICKING OCCURRING ON THE PREMISES? UH, I DON'T RECALL.
YOU DON'T RECALL, OR YOU DON'T KNOW, OR THE ANSWER IS NO.
THERE'S NOTHING IN THESE DOCUMENTS TO TALK ABOUT SEX PATHY.
UH, THE, THE PACKET WAS PUT TOGETHER A FEW MONTHS AGO, I BELIEVE, AND I WOULD HAVE TO FAMILIARIZE MYSELF WITH THE ENTIRE PACKET TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, UH, COMPLAINTS.
I KNOW ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS WAS FROM A FEMALE PERFORMER THAT, THAT SHE HAD MADE TO PATROL, UH, THAT WAS PREVIOUS TO THAT TIME.
I BELIEVE THAT ONE, UH, SHOULD BE IN THE PACKET THAT I'D HAVE TO CONSULT THE PACKET TO FIND IT.
UM, SHE HAD SAID THAT, UH, MANAGEMENT CONTACTED HER AND SAID, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO START HAVING SEX WITH THE PATRONS.
SHE DIDN'T WANT TO, THEY WOULDN'T GIVE HER HER MONEY BACK.
UM, AND THAT'S WHAT SHE, OBJECTION.
I I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS, THIS IS BEYOND HEARSAY AND BEYOND THE SCOPE OF MY QUESTION.
SO, SOUNDS LIKE YOU ASKED A QUESTION HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW, BUT, UM, I'LL PASS THE WITNESS.
UH, WOULD YOU LIKE A REDIRECT? JUST BRIEFLY START THE, UH, UH, CITY'S TIME AGAIN, BUT NOT AT TWO MANY.
SO, UH, MR. WASHINGTON AND MR. SKILLS WAS INDICAT NOT MANAGER AT MENDORO.
WAS HE THE MANAGER THERE THE NIGHT? NO, HE WAS NOT.
THAT WAS AN ENTIRELY, UH, DIFFERENT, UH, AT LEAST WAS INDICATED WITH US THAT DIFFERENT SET OF MANAGERS WERE RUNNING THE LOCATION OF THAT.
AND YOU SAID THAT SAW A LAP DANCE OCCURRING.
WERE THERE OTHER INDICATIONS OF THAT THEY WERE OPERATING AS, UH, HOW WERE THE GIRLS DRESSED? SO, THE GIRLS WERE DRESSED IN A MANNER THAT, IN MY OPINION, WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF THE SOP ORDINANCE.
THE, THE OUTFITS VAGINAS WERE CLEARLY VISIBLE.
UM, SO I DID SAY THAT WOULD BE, AND IF WHETHER THEY OPERATED UP ON AS AN ILLEGAL SEXUALLY AWARD FOR VISITS WERE NOT RELEVANT.
IN A MINUTE, WE'RE, UH, STOP THE TIME, PLEASE.
UM, I'M GOING TO TURN THIS, UH, OVER TO THE BOARD FOR QUESTIONS OF THE, UH, THE WITNESS.
I WILL, UH, YOU ARE ALL SOPHISTICATED ADVOCATES.
UM, YOU CAN USE YOUR TIME HOW YOU WANT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE PRESERVING ARGUMENTS FOR, FOR, UH, HIGHER, HIGHER PEOPLE.
OUR, OUR SOLE PURPOSE HERE IS TO EVALUATE THE CHIEF'S DECISION THAT THERE WAS PROSTITUTION ON THE PHONE.
YOU SAID THE CHIEF'S DETERMIN ANYTHING THAT THERE WAS PROSTITUTION, REMEMBER, IT'S KNOWINGLY ALLOWED, YOU ARE CORRECT.
THE STANDARD THAT, THAT YOU ARE, RIGHT? THE, THE STANDARD THAT, THAT, UH, YES.
UH, THAT MS. CARLISLE WROTE, YOU WROTE, YOU WERE RIGHT.
[00:50:01]
IT.WE'RE GONNA USE THE, THE CHAIRMAN OF MARRIAGE'S, NIK RULE.
I GUESS IT'S A POINT OF INFORMATION.
DO WE HAVE A COPY OF THE, UH, S SO B ORDINANCE THAT WE, OR IS THERE A LINK TO ONE THAT WE CAN SEE MS. CARL? I DON'T EITHER.
UH, I, I GUESS THE QUESTION WOULD BE HOW IS IT RELEVANT? BECAUSE IT WAS BROUGHT UP SEVERAL TIMES BY BOTH SIDES, AND SO I, I FEEL LIKE IT'S PRETTY RELEVANT, BUT TODAY YOU'RE DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT THE CHIEF OF POLICE BASED ITS DETERMINATION ON WHETHER OR NOT, UM, A LICENSEE AND EMPLOYEE HAS KNOWINGLY ALLOWED PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES.
IT DOESN'T REALLY GO TO AN S SO B IS THE ANSWER.
NO, I CAN'T VIEW THE SOB ORDINANCE.
DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY SOMETHING TO SHARE TO ME? WE CAN PULL UP, WE CAN PULL IT UP.
IT MAY BE AT THE END OF ONE OF THE SEE IT.
I I WILL JUST LET YOU, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HEAR A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT NORMAL COURT WOULDN'T, YOU HAVE TO WEIGH IT CORRECTLY AND YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S RELEVANT.
UM, UH, LET ME NOTE THAT, UH, WE HAVE AN ARRIVAL.
SO DR. JACKSON WAS HERE AT 9:11 AM UH, OKAY.
WE'LL JUST, UH, UH, START, UM, MR. SACHS, YOU HAVE, UH, UNDER THE SET RULE, YOU HAVE, UH, TWO MINUTES AND TWO, UH, I RESERVE MY TIME FOR, FOR NOW.
CAN YOU COME BACK TO ME, PLEASE? VERY HARD TO UNDERSTAND.
CAN YOU HEAR ME BETTER NOW? I CAN HEAR YOU.
WE'LL, WE'LL TRY, UH, I, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE, UH, MY TIME RESERVED RIGHT NOW.
UM, UH, THAT THEN MISS A IS NOT HERE.
IS IS MS. SMITH ULTIMATELY NO, UM, MS. THOMAS VICE CHAIR TO, SORRY.
UM, THANK YOU, UH, SERGEANT FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
UM, IS IT NORMAL FOR REGULAR COURSE OF ACTION FOR YOU TO BE ONSITE INTERVIEWING WITNESSES? NO, THAT WOULD BE UP TO MY DETECTIVES.
IT'S MY JOB JUST TO SUPERVISE THEM AND THEIR FORCE, OF COURSE, OF THEIR DUTIES THAT, OKAY.
SO ANY REPORTS THAT ARE COMING YOUR WAY, IT WOULD NOT, IT WOULD NOT MAKE SENSE FOR YOU DOUBT WHAT YOUR DETECTIVES ARE PUTTING ON COURT? CORRECT.
SO THOSE REPORTS ARE, ARE INTERVIEWED OR APPROVED BY WHAT'S CALLED A JAIL SERGEANT.
UM, SO I, I'M NOT THE ONE THAT, THAT APPROVES OR, UH, REVIEWS THOSE REPORTS.
BUT YOU HAVE FAITH IN THESE REPORTS, CORRECT? I DO, INDEED.
THERE MAY BE SOME TYPOS OR SOME MISTAKES, UH, RELATED TO, UH, HOW THEY'RE ASSEMBLED.
OF COURSE, WE HAD BEEN ON DUTY FOR ALMOST 18 HOURS AT THIS POINT AS THEY'RE WRITING THESE REPORTS.
SO I TRY TO GIVE MY GUYS KNOW A LITTLE BIT OF GRACE IF THERE'S SOME TYPOS.
AND SO IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE FOR YOU AS A SUPERVISOR TO TAKE THESE REPORTS IN GOOD FAITH? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND, UM, SO SOME OF THESE ALLEGATIONS ABOUT SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, YOU KNOW, AKA, YOU KNOW, PROSTITUTION WHERE THERE'S AN EXCHANGE OF MONEY, WHEN THIS IS WRITTEN IN THE REPORT, UM, FOR YOU, IT'S NOT, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION AND, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A BIG DEAL.
WE, WE TAKE SEX TRAFFICKING VERY SERIOUSLY AT DALLAS, PLEASE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW WE DID THAT WITHOUT THE GIANT BANG, BUT, UH, GOOD FOR US.
UM, DR. JACKSON, I HAVE NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
[00:55:01]
GOOD MORNING, SERGEANT.UM, JUST SOME FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS.
SO, THE INCIDENT REPORT MAY HAVE HAD MISTAKES, BUT THE INCIDENTS ACTUALLY OCCURRED, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
WHETHER THE NAME WAS DIFFERENT OR, OR DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, THE INCIDENTS DID OCCUR? THAT'S CORRECT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT.
TWO, IN REGARD TO THE EMPLOYEES, OR, I UNDERSTAND THAT APPELLANT'S ATTORNEY IS TRYING TO ESTABLISH AN IN CONTRACTOR TYPE SITUATION, 10 99 W2, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY WERE, THEY WERE WALKING AROUND IN THE FACILITY.
DID YOU WITNESS WHERE THEY WERE WALKING AROUND IN THE FACILITY? I DID AT THE TIME ON THAT.
I GUESS IT'S DECEMBER 7TH MORNING? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, YOU WERE SUGGESTING, OR YOU TOLD US AND TESTIFIED THAT YOU HAD SEEN THEM SHOWING THEIR GENITALS, UM, OR THEY WERE EASILY, UH, APPEARING.
IS THAT CORRECT? EASILY VIEWED, YES, SIR.
AND THAT WAS NOT THE INDIVIDUALS THAT YOU SAW WITH THE LA OR THAT YOUR, THAT YOUR, UH, UNIT OBSERVED EITHER A LAP DANCE OR THE ACTUAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.
THESE WERE OTHER WOMEN, CORRECT.
THAT WERE WALKING AROUND? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND IN REGARD TO THE BODY CAMS, I UNDERSTAND THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE IN REGARD TO WHETHER THOSE WERE PRODUCED OR NOT PRODUCED.
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE NECESSARY FOR THIS PARTICULAR HEARING, BUT I ASSUME THAT THEY'LL BE PRODUCED IN, IN OPEN RECORDS REGARDING, OR NOT OPEN RECORDS.
BUT IN REGARD TO THE TYPICAL CRIMINAL, UH, MATTER, HAVE YOU WATCHED OR SEEN THOSE BODY CAMS? I HAVE.
AND IN THOSE BODY CAMS, WHICH I ASSUME WERE A PART OF, WHAT YOUR UNIT WAS WEARING, WHERE THEY OBSERVED THE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE AND WHERE THEY OBSERVED THE LAP DANCING, DID YOU SEE THAT THAT OCCURRED? I DID.
UH, THAT PUTS, UH, UH, MR. CRON.
UM, I'M, I'M FOCUSED VERY MUCH ON THE PAYMENT OF FEES AND WHAT EVIDENCE, AND I MAY HAVE MISSED IT IN THIS PACKAGE, WHAT EVIDENCE DO WE HAVE THAT, UH, MR. NAVA GUZMAN, THE MONEY THAT HE PAID FOR HIS ARMBAND ACTUALLY WENT TO, UH, MS. UH, DE LOS GONZALEZ? SO, UH, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, OUR POSITION IS THAT ACTUALLY THE MONEY DIDN'T GO TO HER.
UH, DURING OUR INSPECTION, WE ACTUALLY LOCATED A BINDER THAT WE WOULD DETERMINE WOULD BE, UH, KIND OF LIKE A LEDGER IN THAT LEDGER.
WE SAW HER NAME, AND ULTIMATELY HOW MANY, WHAT WE BELIEVE SEXUAL ACTS SHE PERFORMED THAT NIGHT.
UH, MANAGEMENT ACTUALLY TRACKED.
UM, SO OUR, OUR POSITION IS THAT SHE PROBABLY SAW SOME OF THE MONEY, BUT ULTIMATELY PROBABLY A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THAT.
SO OUR POSITION IS, UH, THAT WE HAD THE INTERVIEWS OF BOTH, UH, THE PERSON WHO PAID FOR SEX AND HER TESTIMONY, OR HER, UH, PENAL INTEREST STATEMENTS, AND THEN THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THAT WE, UH, ACTUALLY PHOTOGRAPHED, UH, DURING THE INSPECTION.
CORROBORATED THAT, SO JUST, JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND, BA BASICALLY, UH, MS UH, DELOS GONZALEZ RECEIVED IOUS IN RETURN FOR HER SEXUAL PERFORMANCE.
IS THAT WHAT WHAT WE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? UH, IT'S HARD TO, IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY, UH, HOW THE MONEY WAS DISTRIBUTED.
UM, BUT, UH, BOTH HER STATEMENTS AND, UH, THE GENTLEMAN WHO, UH, WE ARRESTED SAID THAT THE MONEY ACTUALLY WENT TO MANAGEMENT.
IN OTHER WORDS, TO GET THE ARMBAND, HE PAID THE A HUNDRED DOLLARS TO MANAGEMENT, UH, TO THEN HAVE SEX WITH THE EMPLOYEE, AND THEN HE HAD TO NEGOTIATE WITH HER FOR WHAT SEX ACT HE WANTED.
THANK YOU, MR. QUICK, THANK YOU, CHAIR.
I JUST HAVE JUST A FEW QUESTIONS.
UH, SERGEANT, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
I APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE FOR THE CITY.
UM, SO HOW MANY SEX ACTS DOES IT TAKE TO, UM, REVOKE, UH, THE LICENSE? UH, IS THERE A MINIMUM? I WOULD HOPE THAT ONCE THEY'RE FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION AND, AND PROMOTING SEX INSIDE THE LOCATION, IT SHOULD JUST TAKE THAT ONE ACT.
SO, UM, THE APPELLATE'S ATTORNEY, UM, IF I, IF I READ IT RIGHT, HE SAID THERE WERE TWO ACTS WITH WRONG NAMES.
SO WOULD THAT EXCEED THE STANDARD? UH, ULTIMATELY WHAT WE HAVE IS THE ONE ACT THAT WAS OBSERVED, AND THEN THE ONE SOB VIOLATION THAT WAS OBSERVED.
SO ULTIMATELY WE HAD TWO OFFENSES.
SO, UH, YOU BROUGHT UP A LEDGER, UH, WITH THE SEX ACTS.
DO YOU RECALL HOW MANY WERE ON THERE? HOW MANY PAGES? IT WAS? I BELIEVE JUST FROM MY
[01:00:01]
POOR MEMORY, THERE WAS PROBABLY EIGHT TO 10 GIRLS NAMES ON THERE.AND THEN ON THE TOP IT JUST HAD THE WORD BANDS, WHICH I'M ASSUMING MEANT HOW MANY WRISTBANDS THE GENTLEMAN PAID FOR.
AND I WOULD BET FROM MY MEMORY, I OBSERVED 25 TO 30 DIFFERENT BANDS WITH INDIVIDUAL GIRLS.
SOME GIRLS HAD A BUNCH OF 'EM, SOME GIRLS ONLY HAD ONE OR TWO.
SO IN YOUR OPINION, KNOWING THERE WAS SO MANY WOMEN'S NAMES, WOULD YOU REALLY CONSIDER THIS, THAT THERE AN ACTIVELY, UH, PROMOTING PROSTITUTION? UH, IF I HAD TO REFERENCE OUR SUBSEQUENT INVESTIGATION, I WOULD SAY EMPHATICALLY THAT THEY ARE.
MS. HIN, IF YOU ARE TRYING TO TALK TO US, WE SEE NOTHING.
WHY DON'T YOU WAVE TO ME IF YOU'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING? NO.
IF, IF YOU LATER COME BACK ON, UH, WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU UNLESS SHE'S AT, NO.
MR. GONZALEZ, AND FOR CLARIFICATION, THESE ARE JUST QUESTIONS FOR THE SERGEANT RIGHT NOW, CORRECT? YES.
WELL, SINCE WE, I GUESS SOME OF THE BOARD, UH, DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE SOB ORDINANCE IS RELEVANT, THEN I GUESS THE LAP DANCE PORTION OF THIS ISN'T RELEVANT.
SO LET ME MOVE ON TO THE ACT IN THE, I GUESS THE VIP ROOM.
UM, AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, 'CAUSE THE REPORT IS KIND OF HARD TO READ.
THE MANAGER ON DUTY THAT NIGHT WAS MR. Y
HE WAS, THAT'S HIS NAME, UH, CUBAN.
SO I, I, I'M SURE I WOULD NOT HIS NAME JUSTICE IF I TRIED TO PRONOUNCE IT.
UM, AND SO LEMME GO BACK, I GUESS TO THE, YOU YOU MENTIONED JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO QUESTIONING ABOUT A LEDGER.
UH, YOU SAID WHAT YOU BELIEVE WERE SEXUAL ACTS IN THAT LEDGER.
IS THAT LEDGER A PART OF THE EVIDENCE TODAY? CAN YOU KNOW? DO WE HAVE, UH, I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS SHARED.
HOW WAS IT DETERMINED THAT THE, UH, ITEMS IN THAT LEDGER WERE EVIDENCE OF SEXUAL ACTS THAT WERE TAKING PLACE? UH, SO LIKE I SAID, IT HAD EVERY GIRL'S NAME AND THEN IT HAD HOW MUCH MONEY ULTIMATELY THEY WOULD'VE BROUGHT IN THAT NIGHT.
THAT WAS WRITTEN DOWN BY MANAGEMENT.
IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION, MANAGEMENT WOULDN'T NEED TO TRACK THAT UNLESS THEY WERE TAKING A, A CUT OF THE SEX ACTS BEING PERFORMED BY THE GIRLS AT THE LOCATION.
DID IT, DID IT LIST SEX ACTS? WAS IT, I MEAN, IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THIS COULD BE FOR ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES SEX ACTS? OH, THERE, THERE'S PLENTY OF INTERPRETATIONS, I SUPPOSE, THAT YOU COULD USE.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BUSINESS MODEL, UH, IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE SEX ACTS IS WHAT THEY WOULD WANT TO TRACK.
BECAUSE THAT'S, I GUESS THAT'S MY, WHERE I'M TRYING TO GET AT.
AND WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE INCIDENT HERE, IT SHOWS THAT MR. GUZMAN WAS IN THE VIP ROOM, UH, HAVING SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH MS. DARLING.
I GUESS I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH THAT THERE IS, UH, DO YOU, I MEAN, DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE EVIDENCE OR ANYTHING TO ADD THAT, HOW WE CAN ESTABLISH FOR SURE THAT HE HAD PAID FOR A SEX ACT WITH MS. DARLAND? HE ADMITTED TO IT.
YOU SAID MR. GUZMAN, THAT'S THE WRONG NAME.
YOU SAID THE, DO WE'VE CORRECTED THE NAMES FROM THE STATEMENTS.
UH, I THINK THE STATEMENT WAS THAT MR. NAVA GUZMAN NAVA OKAY.
WAS THE ONE THAT PAID FOR SEX, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU SAID.
AND YOU SAID HE ADMITTED TO IT IN, UH, THE INTERVIEWS POST MIRANDA.
UM, THIS IS TO ME, UNLESS MR. SAXON, ARE YOU READY? DO, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YES, I DO.
IS IT ALL RIGHT IF I ASK NOW IT'S, THANK YOU.
UH, BASED ON THE EVIDENCE SUBMITTED BY THE CITY ON PAGE 1 42, UH, EXHIBIT ONE, IT SHOWS THAT MS. GONZALEZ CONTINUED THAT VIP IDEA WAS ENCOURAGED BY GENERAL MANAGER JONATHAN HERNANDEZ, AS FEMALE EMPLOYEES WERE TO ENGAGE IN SEXUAL ACTIVITIES WITH VIPS.
DID YOU CONFIRM THAT JONATHAN HERNANDEZ WAS A EMPLOYEE OF PANDORA'S MEN CLUB, OR WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER? UH, NOT ONLY WAS HE AT THE TIME, HE WAS NOT AT THE
[01:05:01]
LOCATION DURING THAT ARREST, SO WE DID NOT ARREST HIM AT THAT TIME.UH, BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THROUGH A SUBSEQUENT INVESTIGATION, WE'VE DETERMINED HE IS STILL A MANAGER WITH THE ORGANIZATION.
I HAVE AN OBJECTION TO REFERENCES TO THIS LAWSUIT, WHICH IS NOT PROPER EVIDENCE AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON.
IT'S IN SEPARATE LAWSUIT AND MERELY ALLEGATIONS CONTAINED IN A LAWSUIT.
ARE YOU OBJECTING TO THE, THE INCLUSION OF THE PLEADINGS? YES.
AND THE REFERENCE TO THE PLEADING? I WAS, I WAS GONNA SAVE THAT OBJECTION, BUT I'M, I'M BRINGING UP NOW.
MAY I RESPOND? NO, I JUST PLEADINGS JUST TO, TO THE BOARD, PLEADINGS AREN'T EVIDENCE RELATED TO A CRIMINAL CASE.
IS THAT CORRECT? A PLEADING IS, UH, IS A, UH, UH, ONE SIDE'S, UH, OPINION.
PLEADING ITSELF IS NOT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE ISN'T EVIDENCE THAT THAT COULD BE ENTERED, BUT PLEADING ITSELF IS NOT IT.
UM, I WANNA FOCUS MY QUESTIONS REALLY ON, UH, WHAT YOU SAW AND, AND, AND IN, IN, IN DECEMBER.
AND AS IT RELATES TO PROSTITUTION.
A LOT OF OTHER STUFF GOING ON, BUT THIS IS WHAT I WANT.
SO YOU YOURSELF WALKED INTO THE ESTABLISHMENT? I DID INDEED.
AND WHEN YOU WALKED IN, WHAT DID YOU, AND, AND I WAS, YOU GUYS CAN CORRECT ME ON NAMES.
I DID NOT TRACK ALL THE NAME CHANGES.
SO IF IMPORTANT, CORRECT ME WHEN THEY, SO WHEN YOU WALKED IN, WHAT DID YOU YOURSELF SEE, UH, AS WE MADE OUR WAY TO THE VIP ROOM? I'LL TRY TO BE QUICK.
I KNOW YOU ONLY HAVE TWO MINUTES.
UM, MY DETECTIVE OBSERVED THE ACTUAL INTERCOURSE, BUT YOU, I, HE, HE STARTED YELLING, I RAN OVER TO HIM.
'CAUSE CLEARLY I UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE NEEDED TO BE AN ARREST MADE.
AS I GOT THERE, THE MALE PATRON STILL HAD A CONDOM ON AND WAS STANDING UP AND SLOWLY GETTING OFF OF THE FEMALE PERFORMER.
NOT ENGAGED IN THE ACT, BUT, UH, WHATEVER TERM YOU WANNA USE, POST ACT WHERE ALL, ALL PARTIES WERE STILL NAKED.
AND AND THIS IS MR. GUZMAN NABA? THAT'S CORRECT.
HE WAS THE, THE, THE MALE PATRON AT THE LOCATION.
AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE A SWORN STATEMENT IN HERE TO THE EFFECT OF WHAT YOUR DETECTIVE SAID.
UM, HOWEVER, UM, YES, WE DO HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT, UH, THAT WAS, WELL, TELL ME, THAT'S PART OF THE LAWSUIT.
WELL, IS IT, IS IT IN OUR EVIDENCE? THE FACT IT IS NOT IN THERE? I I THINK IT, IT'S IN, YEAH.
WELL, I'LL COME BACK IN MY SECOND TIME.
UM, BEFORE WE DO THE SECOND THING, I'D LIKE TO ASK MS. CARLISLE TO READ THE CODE AGAIN.
SECTION, SECTION 1411 DASH OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE STATES THAT THE CHIEF OF POLICE SHALL REVOKE A LICENSE IF THE CHIEF OF POLICE DETERMINES THAT ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING IS TROOP.
A LICENSEE OR AN EMPLOYEE HAS KNOWINGLY ALLOWED PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES, AND PROSTITUTION HAS THE MEANING GIVEN THAT TERM.
IN THE TEXAS PENAL CODE AND THE TEXAS PENAL CODE SECTION 43.02 STATES, A PERSON COMMITS AN OFFENSE OF PROSTITUTION OF THE PERSON KNOWINGLY OFFERS OR AGREES TO RECEIVE A FEE FROM ANOTHER TO ENGAGE IN SEXUAL CONDUCT.
SEXUAL CONDUCT IS DEFINED IN THE TEXAS PENAL CODE SECTION 43.01, AS INCLUDES DEVIATE, SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, WHICH IS FURTHER DEFINED AS ANY PENETRATION OF THE FEMALE SEX ORGAN BY THE MALE SEX ORGAN, SEXUAL CONTACT, WHICH MEANS ANY TOUCHING OF THE ANUS BREAST OR ANY PART OF THE GENITALS OF ANOTHER PERSON WITH INTENT TO AROUSE OR GRATIFY THE SEXUAL DESIRE OF ANY PERSON AND SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.
UH, WE, WE HAVE A SECOND ROUND.
MR. SAXON HAS ASKED FOR A RECESS AT 10 O'CLOCK.
SO I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A, UM, CLARIFICATION.
[01:10:02]
OF THE EVIDENCE SUBMITTED BY THE CITY.THAT IS AN INCIDENT REPORT THAT CLEARLY CALLS OUT, UM, THE TWO PARTIES ENGAGING IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY.
MAY I ASK FOR A POINT OF CLARIFICATION OR I'M NOT SURE THE, THE WAY TO ASK THIS.
ARE WE ALLOWED TO BE USING THIS INCIDENT REPORT AS A BOARD TO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS CASE? WHAT IS OFF LIMITS EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED? AND YOU CAN WEIGH IT.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT STOPS YOU FROM NOT CONSIDERING IT, UH, SUBJECT TO THE STANDARD YOU HAVE TO APPLY TO.
UM, SO YEAH, THAT, THAT'S ALL FOR ME THEN.
UM, UH, MS. SMITH, MS. THOMAS, NO QUESTIONS.
UM, SERGEANT, I JUST WANT JUST TO CLARIFY, UH, THIS PERSON, MR. NVA GUZMAN WAS ENGAGED IN SEX WITH AN EMPLOYEE.
WHAT WAS, UH, WAS HE CHARGED WITH ANYTHING? HE WAS CHARGED WITH PROSTITUTION BUYER, WHICH IS A FELONY HERE IN THE STATE.
WHAT ABOUT, UH, THE EMPLOYEE? SHE WAS CHARGED WITH PROSTITUTION, SELLER AND ALSO TRANSPORTED TO JAIL.
UM, OKAY, MS. TORRES, ARE YOU CONTINUING? OH, NO.
I JUST HAVE A, UM, TWO QUESTIONS.
I KNOW THAT EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED, BUT, UH, DURING EXPOSURE, IS THE EXPOSURE FREQUENT DURING THE ISSUES AND IS MANAGER AWARE PROHIBITIVE? I'M SORRY, COULD YOU, COULD YOU PLEASE REPEAT THE QUESTION? SURE.
THE EXPOSURE THAT YOU, UM, SAW A WITNESS, IS THAT FREQUENT DURING YOUR ISSUES, EXPRESSION OR WHATEVER AT THE, UH, CLUB AND IS MANAGER AWARE THAT THAT IS PROHIBITED? UH, I, I THINK YOUR QUESTION IS, IS THIS AN AN ONGOING ISSUE WITH THIS LOCATION, RIGHT? YES.
UM, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THEY ARE AWARE OF, OF THE, OF THE BUSINESS MODEL WHERE WOMEN HAVE SEX FOR MONEY BECAUSE, UH, CURRENTLY WE'VE ARRESTED TWO MANAGERS NOW WHO WORK FOR THE LOCATION FOR THAT EXACT.
AND THAT WAS GOING INTO MY NEXT QUESTION THAT, UH, OH, I'M SORRY.
IF IT WAS, UH, IF IT WAS KNOWN, HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OTHER COUNTY ISSUES THAT IT HAD BEEN TRIED TO RECTIFY THAT ISSUE? OR IS IT STILL ONGOING FROM YOUR OBSERVANCE? IF YOUR QUESTION IS, IF IT'S ONGOING, I CAN HONESTLY TELL YOU THAT THE GIRLS WHO USED TO WORK AT THIS LOCATION HAVE CURRENTLY REACHED OUT TO OUR UNDERCOVERS AND HAVE ASKED THEM TO COME TO THEIR USELESS LOCATION TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SIX FOR MONEY INSIDE THE OTHER PANDORA'S THAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.
BUT THIS CURRENT LOCATION IS, IS STILL CLOSED.
SO WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES THERE RIGHT NOW.
AGAIN, I KNOW UNDERSTAND THAT HEARSAY IS ALLOWED SOMEWHAT, BUT THIS IS HEARSAY WITHIN HEARSAY AND WE CAN'T POSSIBLY, UH, ALLOW THIS TO BE ACTUAL EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF, UH, SOLICITING PROSTITUTION FOR ANOTHER LOCATION.
PLEASE, UH, PLEASE NOTE THAT THAT'S HEARSAY.
WE'RE NOT HERE TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER LOCATION.
SUSTAINED STATUTE, UM, MR.
UM, WHEN HE WAS INVESTIGATED WAS HE ASKED ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF THE LEDGER? HE WAS, HE WAS QUESTIONED RELATED TO THAT.
AND IT WAS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT HE REALLY WASN'T, UH, AWARE OR HE WAS NOT BEING ASKED TO SUPERVISE THE ACTUAL SEX ACTS INSIDE THE LOCATION.
UH, THAT WAS A DIFFERENT MANAGER WHO SUPERVISED THAT.
HOW ABOUT WE SPOKE OF ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL.
WELL, WHETHER HE WAS A MANAGER OR NOT.
I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PRESENTED EVIDENCE THAT POSSIBLY HE WAS A JAMAL WASHINGTON.
DID YOU QUESTION HIM IN REGARD TO THE LEDGER MULTIPLE TIMES AND WHAT DID HE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT? THAT'S JUST HOW, UH, THINGS WERE DONE.
THAT WAS A PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT TEAM THAT WAS THERE DURING OUR INSPECTION.
HE WAS BROUGHT IN AFTER THAT, AND HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT THEY WERE TOLD BY MANAGEMENT TO NEVER DO
[01:15:01]
THAT AGAIN, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE, THE THINGS WE USED AS PROBABLE CAUSE IN ONE OF OUR SEARCH WARRANTS IN REGARD TO PROSTITUTION.UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT, OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A SEXUAL INTERCOURSE THAT WAS WITNESSED BY ONE OF YOUR, UM, DETECTIVES OR POLICE OFFICERS.
UM, IN REGARD TO THE LAP DANCE, I WANTED TO KNOW, BECAUSE YOU HAD SAID AS JUST THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE WALKING AROUND, THEY, UM, EXPOSED THEIR GENITAL PARTS AS THEY WERE WALKING AROUND THESE FEMALES.
AND SO IN THE LAP DANCE WAS ONE, WAS THAT THE SAME DRESS THAT WAS WORN WERE, THEY WERE THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS DOING THE LAP DANCE WAS SHOWING, WAS, HAD HER, WAS EXPOSED EVEN THOUGH THE GENTLEMAN THAT SHE MAY HAVE BEEN DANCING FOR MAY HAVE HAD HIS PANTS ON OR WHATEVER, IT WAS THE SAME TYPE OF OUTFIT THAT THEY ALL SEEMED TO, UH, BE UTILIZING INSIDE THE LOCATION.
AND AT LEAST IT COULD BE INTERPRETED THAT THE PROSTITUTION DEFINITION THAT WAS JUST READ TO US, THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED.
I KNOW Y'ALL DIDN'T CHARGE HIM, BUT CONSIDERED ANOTHER SEX ACT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A HIGHER STANDARD.
BUT, UH, WE WENT WITH WHAT WAS COMPLETELY OBVIOUS, WHICH WAS THE LOWER STANDARD.
I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF I AM IN THE BALLPARK.
UM, UM, MS. SHI, NO QUESTIONS.
UH, CAN YOU POINT ME, BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED EARLIER IN MY LINE OF QUESTIONING ABOUT THAT MR. GUZMAN HAD A STATEMENT THAT HE WAS ADMITTING THAT HE PAID FOR SEX.
IS THERE IS THAT STATEMENT IN THE EVIDENCE OR WHERE, WHERE, WHERE CAN WE SEE HIS STATEMENT ABOUT THAT? WE TRY NOT TO PUT DIRECT STATEMENTS IN, IN THE REPORTS THEMSELVES BECAUSE IT'S ALL VIDEOTAPED AND RECORDED AND THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT WE MIGHT MISSPELL SOMETHING OR, OR MAKE AN ISSUE OF THAT.
SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO WITH THE POLICE REPORTS, IT'S JUST GIVE IT A GENERALIZATION OF WHAT THE ADMISSION WAS, AND THEN WHEN WE GO TO COURT OR WHEN THERE'S THE CRIMINAL TRIAL, WE JUST PLAY THE, UH, THE TAPE, WHICH HAS HIS STATEMENTS VERBATIM.
AND MS. DARLING MADE STATEMENTS THAT SHE PARTICIPATED IN PROSTITUTION AS WELL? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND BUT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS THERE'S NO EVIDENCE IN HERE, WHETHER IT'S A BODY CAM, A STATEMENT, ANYTHING TO SAY THAT THIS, BESIDES YOUR POLICE REPORT HERE, THAT'S THE ONLY EVIDENCE THAT'S SUBMITTED TO ESTABLISH THIS? YEAH, THERE IS THE POLICE REPORT THAT SUMMARIZES TO ME.
BUT, BUT I'M SAYING THERE'S NO STATEMENTS FROM GUZMAN OR DARLENE OR FOOTAGE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT OTHER THAN THE POLICE REPORT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, I'M GONNA GO FAST BECAUSE I GOT TWO MINUTES.
SO I WANT YOU TO, UH, TELL ME IF IT'S TRUE OR NOT.
YOU WENT IN AND YOU WITNESSED A LAP DANCE.
AND YOUR DETECTIVE WITNESSED INTERCOURSE? CORRECT.
YOU SAW CONDOM, NAKED CONDOM AND WOMAN WITH NO PANTS, COMPLETELY NAKED, COMPLETELY NAKED.
YOU'VE BEEN ARRESTED WHO, ALL THE PARTIES INVOLVED.
DID YOU SEE A MANAGER CORRECT.
AND WHERE WAS THE MANAGER IN THIS PROCESS? HE WAS OUTSIDE WHEN WE MADE CONTACT OUTSIDE THE, THE, UH, LIKE PHYSICALLY OUTSIDE OR LIKE IN THE LITTLE VESTIBULE? LIKE BETWEEN, WE ACTUALLY OKAY.
SO INSIDE THE BUILDING? INSIDE THE BUILDING.
AND THEN WE, I SPOKE WITH HIM OUTSIDE.
WAS THIS THE PERSON WHO HAD THE LEDGER? I WOULD, IT'S HARD TO DETERMINE, BUT WHERE DID, WHERE DID YOU FIND THE LEDGE INSIDE THE BUSINESS? IT WAS ON THE, ON THE, THE BAR TABLE, I GUESS.
AND SO THEN THE TESTIMONY THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR, UH, IN YOUR, YOUR EVIDENCE HERE CAME IN INTERVIEWS AND, AND I, I SUPPOSE IT WAS THE, THE DANCERS WHO, WHO CORROBORATED THAT MANAGEMENT KNEW AND FACILITATED, AND THE, THE, THE PERSON WHO PAID FOR SEX ALSO CORROBORATED THAT HE HAD TO PAY THE MANAGER BEFORE HE WAS ABLE TO HAVE SEX WITH THE PERFORMER.
AND JUST SO WE HAVE THE NAME OF THE MANAGER IS ON THAT DAY.
IT'S A DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL THAT WE DIDN'T ARREST THAT NIGHT.
JONATHAN HERNANDEZ, I BELIEVE, YEAH.
AND THOSE ARE POST MIRANDA? CORRECT.
UM, AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU SEE A LEDGER LIKE THAT, IS IT, IS IT IS, IS THAT HOW OPERATIONS WORK LIKE THAT? OR IS THERE, UH, ARE, ARE THERE IT'S USUALLY LESS LATE OR LESS OBVIOUS THAN THIS.
[01:20:01]
FACEBOOK MESSAGES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.IT'S USUALLY NOT JUST OUT THE, OKAY.
MR. SACKER ASKED FOR A RECESS.
UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, BUT I REALLY DO WANT TO USE OUR TIME.
WELL, SO LET'S SAY NO MORE THAN 10 MINUTES.
SO WE WILL, UH, RECONVENE AT 10 15.
IT'S 10 10 18 ON, UH, FEBRUARY 16TH AM UH, PERMANENT LICENSE APPEAL BOARD AS WE DO, UH, AT THIS POINT, IT IS THE APPELLANT'S FLOOR.
YOU HAVE 12 MINUTES AND 13 SECONDS.
CHAIRMAN, IS THAT MR. QUINT? UH, YOU SKIPPED ME AND MR. CR ON QUESTIONING.
UH, BOY, I MEANT TO SAY YOUR NAME AND IF I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING, I WENT FAST.
UH, I SUPPOSE WE COULD REOPEN IT FOR QUESTIONING.
UH, DO, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANNA ASK? I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR THIS SERGEANT.
IF YOU'LL, IF YOU'LL, IF YOU GUYS WILL, WILL INDULGE ME.
UH, MR. QUINT, YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES.
SO WE WERE READ THE ORDINANCE FOR, UM, SEX ACTS, SO TO SPEAK, OR PROSTITUTION.
UM, AND THE SEX, THE ORDINANCE STATED THAT ONE OR MORE SEX ACTS WOULD QUALIFY FOR THE FORFEITURE OF THE LICENSE, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THEN ANOTHER QUESTION WAS WITH THIS LEDGER, UM, WOULD YOU SAY THAT MANAGEMENT WAS KNOWINGLY, UM, PANDERING, SO TO SPEAK? I WOULD USE THE WORD, UH, PROMOTING OR FACILITATING.
SO IT'S, IT'S A SIMILAR WORD, BUT YES.
BUT THEY WERE IN FACT PANDERING BECAUSE THEY DID, THEY KNOWINGLY DO THIS.
I JUST WANT SOME CLARIFICATION.
DID I SKIP SOMEONE ELSE? MR. FLYNN? YOU SKIPPED MR. CHRON.
I'M HAVING TROUBLE GETTING YOUR, IS IT OKAY TO ASK A QUESTION? NO, YOU HAVE TO BE VISIBLE TO COUNT.
UM, COME BACK TO ME IF, IF, IF POSSIBLE.
UH, I'D RATHER WAIT JUST BECAUSE WE'RE BACK ON THE, UH, THE OTHER WITNESS.
YEAH, I HAVE, IS IT ON OUR END? OKAY, THERE WE GO.
THIS IS A VERY QUICK QUESTION I WOULD LIKE TO ASK.
UM, THE, UM, UH, SERGEANT AND SERGEANT, THE ONE QUICK QUESTION I HAVE IS, DID ANGELA, UH, DE LOS GONZALEZ, DID SHE KNOWINGLY OFFER OR AGREE TO RECEIVE A FEE TO ENGAGE IN SEXUAL CONDUCT? CORRECT.
AND WHAT, WHAT EVIDENCE DO WE HAVE OF THAT, HER STATEMENTS POST MIRANDA, UH, DURING HER ARREST, WHICH WERE CORROBORATED BY THE MALE PATRON WHO WE ARRESTED? UH, PERFECT.
UH, THE APPELLANTS WOULD CALL BRIAN VEST AS OUR WITNESS.
MR. VEST, CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR POSITION WITH THE APPELLANTS FOR THE RECORD? BRIAN VEST, REGIONAL MANAGER.
MR. VEST, HOW LONG HAVE YOU, UH, BEEN INVOLVED IN THE, THE ADULT NIGHTCLUB BUSINESS? APPROXIMATELY 13 YEARS.
AND ARE YOU, WERE YOU AWARE OF PANDORA'S DECISION TO CONVERT TO FROM AN SOB TO A DANCE HALL? YES.
AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE, TO THE BOARD MEMBERS, WHAT WAS THE REASONING FOR THAT CHANGE? UM, CLUB WAS LOSING LOTS OF MONEY AFTER THE TWO O'CLOCK RULE, AND, UH, THERE WAS SOME OTHER SOBS THAT HAD SWITCHED TO THE NEW MODEL AND WERE DOING QUITE WELL.
SO WE WANTED TO TRY TO CAPITALIZE IT THE SAME WAY THEY DID IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR A DANCE AS A DANCEHALL AS OPPOSED TO AN SOB.
WHAT WERE THE STEPS THAT PANDORA'S HAD TO TAKE? UM, WE HAD TO BE FULLY CLOTHED, UM, AND LATEX PAINT.
UM, GIRLS WOULD HAVE TO BE SPRAYED WITH LATEX PAINT ON ALL OF THEIR PRIVATE AREAS, UM, TO BE COVERED AT ALL TIMES.
AND IS THAT IN FACT, WHAT, WHAT PANDORA'S DID? CORRECT.
SO WHEN SERGEANT HASEK TESTIFIED THAT THEY CAME IN AND THEY OBSERVED ENTERTAINERS
[01:25:01]
IN THE STATE OF UNDRESS, WAS IT PROBABLY MISTAKEN? YES.SO, BUT IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM A DISTANCE OR IF YOU'RE NOT LOOKING CAREFULLY, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.
BUT THEY WERE IN FACT, COVERED AND, AND THE COMPTROLLER AGREES THAT IF YOU'RE COVERED IN LATEX PAINT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE $10 TAX AND SOB HAS TO PAY, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO YOU WERE JUST A DANCE HALL AND THAT WAS AGREED TO BY THE COMPTROLLER, AND THE CITY HAD NO ISSUE WITH THAT PART OF THE CONCEPT AS YOU OPERATING AS A DANCE HALL, CORRECT? CORRECT.
NOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THIS LEDGER THAT, UH, WAS OUTSIDE THE VIP ROOM.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD, UH, WHAT THAT WAS FOR AND WHAT WAS INFORMATION WAS CONTAINED IN THAT LEDGER? UH, YES.
BASICALLY WHEN THEY WOULD GO TO THE, UH, LOUNGE, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO EITHER THEY BEING A PATRON, PATRON, YES.
UM, THE PATRON WOULD GO BACK THERE.
UM, IF THEY WANTED TO RECEIVE ANY KIND OF, UM, AIR DANCE, THEY COULD GET A DANCE AND, UM, WE WOULD, IT WOULD COST $25 PER DANCE THAT THEY WOULD PAY THE GIRL.
THE CLUB CAT COLLECTED $5 PER DANCE.
THE WAY THAT THEY WOULD KEEP TRACK OF HOW MANY DANCES THE GIRLS DID IS THEY WOULD PUT HER NAME DOWN AND PUT A MARK SO THEY WOULD KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY THEY NEEDED TO COLLECT FROM THE GIRL FOR HER DANCE.
UM, IF THERE WAS ANY KIND OF A CHARGE THAT WAS A, IF YOU WANTED TO RENT A BIGGER SPACE OR IF YOU HAD A PARTY AND YOU WANTED TO RENT AN AREA, UM, SOMETIMES THEY WOULD CHARGE $50.
SOMETIMES THEY'D CHARGE A HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR YOUR OWN LITTLE AREA.
AND WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THE DIFFERENT COLOR WRISTBANDS? BASICALLY, WHEN YOU WALK IN AND YOU PAY YOUR INSURANCE, YOU WOULD GET A WRISTBAND TO PROVE THAT YOU PAID YOUR ENTRANCE.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO LEAVE, YOU COULD COME BACK IN WITHOUT REPAYING.
UM, OR IF WE FOUND SOMEONE THAT DIDN'T HAVE THE WRISTBAND, UM, OF THE COLOR OF THE DAY, BECAUSE WE CHANGED THE COLORS EVERY DAY, THEN YOU, THEY DIDN'T PAY THEIR ENTRANCE AND THEY GOT IN SOMEHOW.
AND THEN YOUR WRISTBAND FOR, UM, YOUR VIP LOUNGE WOULD BE A DIFFERENT COLOR.
SO THEY KNEW THAT YOU HAD ALREADY PAID FOR YOUR VIP MOM.
SO THE COLOR OF THE WRISTBAND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH PAYING FOR SEXUAL FAVORS? NOT AT ALL.
AND IT WAS NEVER MANAGEMENT'S INTENTION TO CHARGE A FEE TO PATRONS, UH, TO ALLOW THEM TO ENGAGE IN SEXUAL RELATIONS, NEVER ALLOWED ON PROPERTY.
UM, THE, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT, UH, UH, MR. JAMAL WASHINGTON.
CAN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD WHO THIS PERSON WAS AND HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE CLUB? JAMAL CAME TO US AS A PROMOTER THAT HE HAS WORKED WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT CLUBS IN THE AREA, NOT ONLY IN TEXAS AND OTHER STATES.
HE PUT ON EVENTS, CONCERTS, BROUGHT IN ARTISTS, UH, PERFORMERS, UM, STUFF IN THAT NATURE TO HELP PROMOTE THE BUSINESS.
UH, HE WAS NEVER HIRED AS A MANAGER.
HE WAS ALWAYS A PROMOTER THAT WOULD GET PAID FOR HIS PROMOTION SERVICES.
AND ON DECEMBER 7TH, WAS MR. WASHINGTON AT THE LOCATION? NO.
AND, AND WERE YOU AWARE THAT MR. WASHINGTON MAY HAVE HELD HIMSELF OUT AS A MANAGER? I WAS NOT AWARE.
BUT HE'S NOT LISTED IN ANY APPLICATION THAT WE'VE SUBMITTED TO THE CITY AS A MANAGER, IS HE? NO.
IS HE LISTED AS AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR WHO'S BEEN PAID SEPARATELY FOR HIS PROMOTIONS? YES.
UM, BUT MR. WASHINGTON NEVER HAD ANY AUTHORITY FROM YOU OR ANYBODY IN MANAGEMENT TO HOLD HIMSELF OUT AS A MANAGER, CORRECT? NO.
DID YOU OR ANY OF THE MANAGERS AT THE CLUB, UH, HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF PROSTITUTION OCCURRING IN THE CLUB? NO.
WOULD YOU ALLOW, WOULD YOU HAVE ALLOWED PROSTITUTION TO OCCUR IN THE CLUB? NO, SIR.
THE CLUB HAS NOTHING TO BENEFIT THE PROSTITUTION, DOES IT? NOTHING AT ALL.
[01:30:02]
I'LL PASS THE WITNESS.PLEASE PRESERVE THE TIME AT 5 45, BASICALLY 44.
AND, UH, THE CITY'S TIME IS TIME.
UH, MR. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
UH, WERE YOU PHYSICALLY AT THE LOCATION ON DECEMBER 7TH, 2025? NO, SIR.
SO, UH, WOULD YOU SAY YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING THAT OCCURRED ON THAT NIGHT? NO, SIR.
ONLY WHAT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME, UM, THANK YOU.
IF SO, ARE LAP DANCES ALLOWED IN A DANCE HALL? THE DANCES ARE AIR DANCES.
HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE AN AIR DANCE? AIR DANCE WOULD BE A, UH, SPACE IN BETWEEN YOU AND THE CUSTOMER.
UM, AND IF THE GIRL WOULD BE COVERED IN LATEX PAINT AND THERE WOULD BE NO KIND OF PENETRATION OR ANYTHING, THE VESSEL.
UM, AND SO IS IT, IS IT YOUR CONTENTION THAT THE VIP ROOM IS RESERVED FOR AIR DANCES? UH, YES.
UM, AND ALSO, DO YOU HAVE ANY MANAGERS THAT YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY ACTUAL MANAGERS THAT ARE NOT 10 99 OR CONTRACTORS AT PANDORA? YES.
AND HOW MANY OF THOSE WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE AT THAT TIME? THERE WAS ONE.
AND WHAT WAS HIS NAME? JONATHAN HERNANDEZ.
IS THAT THE SAME JONATHAN HERNANDEZ THAT WAS DISCUSSED EARLIER? THAT'S IN THE POLICE REPORT? YES.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A QUESTION.
SO JUST SO THE BOARD IS AWARE, I'M, I'M CURRENTLY LOOKING AT THE CODE SECTION 1411.
UH, THIS IS THE DEFINITION SECTION.
IS THIS IN YOUR EVIDENCE OR IS THIS OUR, THIS, THIS CODE THAT MS. YES.
THE CODE THAT, THAT MS. KLOW GAVE US EARLIER.
IT'S, IT, WELL, IT'S PART OF THAT CODE.
IT'S NOT THE PROVISION SHE READ.
UH, IF YOU WOULD LIKE FOR HER, CAN SHE READ IT? CAN I READ IT? YOU CAN READ IT.
UH, WELL, ESSENTIALLY IT'S DEFINING WHAT IT DEFINES, CONTAINS THE DEFINITIONS OF FOR, AND, UH, SECTION 14.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT, LOOK ON PAGE 1 0 2, BOARD 1 0 2, EXCUSE ME.
IT WILL GIVE THEM ABOUT 10 SECONDS.
PAGE 1 0 2 ON, ON THE CITY'S PRESENTATION HAS WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.
UH, SO THIS, I JUST, I'M JUST GONNA READ THIS.
SO THIS IS 14 ONE A, AND THIS IS SECTION 12.
LICENSEE MEANS A, A PERSON WHOSE NAME A LICENSE OPERATED DANCEHALL HAS BEEN ISSUED, UH, B EACH INDIVIDUAL LISTED AS AN APPLICANT ON THE APPLICATION FOR A DANCEHALL LICENSE C INDIVIDUAL WHO'S AN OFFICER OF A DANCEHALL BUSINESS, WHICH A LICENSE HAS BEEN ISSUED UNDER THIS CHAPTER.
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL'S NAME OR SIGNATURE APPEARS ON THE LICENSE APPLICATION, UH, EACH INDIVIDUAL HAS A 20% OR GREATER OWNERSHIP INTEREST IN A DANCEHALL BUSINESS FOR WHICH A LICENSE HAS BEEN ISSUED UNDER THIS CHAPTER.
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL'S NAME OR, UH, SIGNATURE APPEARS ON THE APPLICATION, AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT I WANT TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO FOR THIS NEXT QUESTION.
EACH INDIVIDUAL WHO EXERCISES SUBSTANTIAL DEFACTO CONTROL OVER A DANCEHALL BUSINESS FOR SUCH A LICENSE HAS BEEN ISSUED UNDER THIS CHAPTER, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL'S NAME OR SIGNATURE APPEARS ON THE LICENSE APPLICATION.
SO I WANNA GO BACK TO DECEMBER 7TH, 2025.
UM, SO YOUR, IT, IT SEEMS FROM YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOUR CONTENTION IS THAT ON THE NIGHT OF DEC, DECEMBER 7TH, MR. YEY WAS NOT A MANAGER.
IS THAT YOUR, IS THAT YOUR POSITION? JANA WAS A MANAGER.
THAT IS, UM, MY NEXT QUESTION IS, WOULD YOU, WHO IN THE CLUB WOULD YOU SAY HAS DEFACTO CONTROL, IF NOT MR. HERNANDEZ, ON THE NIGHT OF DECEMBER 7TH, 2025? I'M GONNA OBJECT.
HE'S ASKING A LEGAL QUESTION AS TO THE INTERPRETATION OF WHO IS A LICENSEE UNDER THE ORDINANCE.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT, UH, WE WANNA MAKE ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT.
WE CAN, BUT, UH, ASKING MR. VEST WHO HAD DE FACTO CONTROL OVER OPERATIONS IS, IT'S A LEGAL QUESTION, NOT A FACTUAL QUESTION.
WELL, HE, THE, I BELIEVE HE OPENED THE DOOR HERE BECAUSE HE, HE, THEY'RE DOING THEIR BEST TO, TO, TO SAY THAT, THAT THERE ARE NO, THAT, THAT, THAT THESE PEOPLE THAT WERE INVOLVED IN, IN THE BUSINESS WERE NOT MANAGERS.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SHOW HERE WITH THIS QUESTIONING IS THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER HIS NAME WAS LISTED ON THERE OR WHETHER THEY SIGNED HIM WITH A, WITH A W2 OR A 10 99.
HE, IF HE, WOULD YOU SAY THAT JONATHAN HERNANDEZ ON THE NIGHT OF DECEMBER 7TH, 2025 WAS IN CONTROL OF PANDORA'S MEN'S SQUAD? YES.
UM, MAY I THANK YOU, UH, MR. VEST.
[01:35:01]
A QUESTION A MINUTE AGO WHETHER YOU HAD, YOU HAD NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.IN FACT, DIDN'T YOU QUESTION AND TALK TO, UH, MANAGERS AND FLOOR MANAGERS AND PEOPLE WHO WERE WORKING THAT EVENING? YES, I DID.
SO, SO YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON WHAT THOSE FOLKS TOLD YOU, CORRECT? CORRECT.
KIND OF LIKE WHAT THE POLICE DO WHEN THEY TALK TO THEIR POLICE OFFICER.
SO YOU DID HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WENT ON THAT NIGHT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND WHEN THEY, HE ASKED YOU, UH, COUNSEL ASKED YOU ABOUT THE, THE VIP ROOM BEING RESERVED FOR AIR DANCES.
AND, AND ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THERE'S ALSO SITUATIONS WHERE THE PATRONS AND, AND THE DANCERS GO IN AND SIT DOWN AND THE ENTERTAINERS WOULD SIT DOWN AND JUST TALK? YES.
THEY'RE, UH, MOST OF THE LOUNGE ROOMS WERE FOR THEM TO JUST SIT DOWN AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS.
A LOT OF GENTLEMEN WOULD GO IN THERE AND JUST WANT TO CONVERSATION.
AND, AND, AND THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL.
YOU WERE INVOLVED IN SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES BEFORE.
IS THAT THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS OFTEN IN THOSE BUSINESSES AND EVERYONE I'VE BEEN IN HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
AND SOMETIMES IT'S HARD FOR, FOR, FOR THE BOARD AND FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS EXTREMELY COMMON IN THAT PATRONS OF THESE BUSINESSES ARE JUST LOOKING TO HAVE COMMUNICATIONS WITH, UH, ENTERTAINERS, UH, IN AN INFORMAL MANNER.
UH, ARE THERE FURTHER WITNESS? UH, NOT ON THIS CASE, YOUR HONOR, BUT YOUR HONOR, MR. CHAIR? YEAH,
THERE'S GONNA BE SOME JUDGES THAT MIGHT BE P****D, SO IT SHOULD BE NICE.
UH, SO NO MORE PRESENTATION ON THIS CASE? CORRECT.
UH, I WILL NOT FORGET YOU, MR. QUINN.
UM, STARTING AT MR. UH, SACKER.
CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME OKAY? IS IT BREAKING UP? I'M SORRY.
SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK THE CITY PROVIDED AN, UM, IN THEIR EXHIBIT, UM, AND I WANTED TO ASK THE APPELLANT, UH, FOR THEIR COMMENTARY ON IT.
UH, THERE WAS A TIMELINE THAT WAS PROVIDED.
IT'S ON PAGE THREE, AND I JUST WANTED TO GO THROUGH THAT AND MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING.
SO, ON 1119 OF 2025, THE DANCEHALL LATE, UH, HOURS PERMIT WAS RENEWED, OR THE APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED FOR RENEWAL.
IS THAT CORRECT? I'M SORRY, WE DIDN'T CATCH THAT DATE.
WHICH ONE ARE YOU REFERRING TO? UH, THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS RENEWAL APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED ON 11 19 20 25.
ON 1122, UH, PANDORA SURRENDERED THEIR SOB UM, LICENSE TO THE CITY, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO ON 12 SEVEN, THE INSPECTION OF THE BUSINESS DISCOVERED TWO PROSTITUTION ARRESTS THAT WOULD BE AFTER SOB WAS SURRENDERED, AND THIS WOULD BE FOR THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT.
UM, THAT WAS, UM, GRANTED BUT EXPIRING ON JANUARY 10TH, 2026.
I'M GONNA OBJECT TO THE WORD EXPIRE.
IT WAS, IT WAS ALLEGEDLY REVOKED ON JANUARY 5TH, BUT IT DID NOT EXPIRE.
I HAD SAID THAT THE LICENSE FOR THE DANCE HALL LATE HOURS PERMIT, UM, WAS GOING TO BE EXPIRING IN JANUARY 10TH, 2026.
SO THAT WAS THE YEAR THAT, SO YOU'RE TECHNICALLY IN THE, THE DANCE PERMIT.
IS THAT YOU ASKING WHE WHETHER IT WAS GONNA EXPIRE ON THE 10TH OF JANUARY? UH, YES.
JUST, JUST MAKING SURE THAT THAT WAS THE ACTIVE PERMIT THAT WAS GIVEN, AND IT WOULD BE EXPIRING ON JANUARY 10TH.
WITHOUT ANY, IF I MAY, IF THAT'S A LEGAL QUESTION, THE THE, THE LICENSE THAT WAS APPROVED WOULD'VE EXPIRED IN ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ITS ISSUANCE, AND THAT WOULD BE ONE 10 HE'S ANSWERED OR NOT ANSWERED, THAT'S ANSWERED.
AND THEN THE, THE REVOCATION, UH, LETTER WAS DRAFTED ON ONE FIVE AND THEN DELIVERED ON ONE SIX TO MR. SER.
YOUR, UH, YEAH, YOUR TWO MINUTES.
I THINK I, THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
UH, MR. UH, NO, WE'RE GONNA MS. THOMAS, NO QUESTIONS.
[01:40:02]
UM, THE, THE, THE VICE CHAIR TORRE, UM, YES.UM,
SO HOW MANY, UH, HOW MANY ONSITE MANAGERS ARE THERE? JUST ONE.
MR. JONATHAN HERNANDEZ? THERE WERE TWO THAT NIGHT.
UH, JONATHAN HERNANDEZ IN HERE.
AND HOW IS THERE A MANAGER ON SITE EVERY NIGHT? TYPICALLY, THERE'S ALWAYS A MANAGER ON SITE.
AND MR. UM, AND HOW MANY PROMOTERS ARE THERE? HOW MANY PROMOTERS DO YOU HAVE? UM, WE USED VARIOUS ONES AT THAT LOCATION.
THERE WAS JUST THE ONE PROMOTER THAT WAS JAMAL.
SO JAMAL WASHINGTON IS THE ONLY PROMOTER FOR PANDORA'S CLUB IN DALLAS? YES.
SO HE BRINGS IN, YOU MENTIONED ARTISTS DOES, OKAY.
SO, UM, PEOPLE GO TO DANCE TO PANDORA, MEN GO TO DANCE HERE.
UH, ARE YOU ASKING CUSTOMERS GO TO DANCE CUSTOMERS? YES.
PATRONS GO, UH, SOMETIMES THEY DANCE, UH, GO TO SEE THE GIRLS, GO TO SEE THE ARTISTS, UH, WHATEVER THE VENUE IS AT THE TIME.
WHAT DO THEY DO WHEN THEY GO TO SEE THE GIRLS? BUT YOU SAID
UH, GIRLS WOULD DANCE ON STAGE.
UM, GIRLS WOULD SIT DOWN AND TALK TO 'EM.
UH, THEY WOULD SIT DOWN AND DRINK WITH THE GIRLS.
UM, YOU ALSO MENTIONED THE COLOR OF THE DAY IS A, SO THERE'S A RISK, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S DIFFERENT COLORS FOR EVERY DAY SO THAT YOU CAN
SO IN ONE NIGHT THERE SHOULD BE TWO COLORS, THE COLOR OF THE NIGHT AND THE VIP COLOR.
AND, UH, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? THE VIP LOUNGE? YOU GET TO GO AND GET A HAIR, DANCE MS. TO YOUR TIME.
UM, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS.
UM, UH, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT, UM, YOU, NOT HOLLY ON THE SITE, BUT CAN YOU TELL ME HOW FREQUENT YOU MIGHT BE ON THAT SITE? NORMALLY THEY'RE THREE TO FOUR TIMES A WEEK.
DURING THOSE HOURS? UH, NORMALLY DURING BUSINESS HOURS, YES.
AND IF YOU'RE NOT ON SITE AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER MANAGER THERE WHO RELAY WAS, IS REALLY HAPPENING ON THAT SIDE, IN YOUR ABSENCE, THE MANAGER, UM, DURING THAT TIME, AFTER MANAGERS RELATE ANY ACTIVITIES OUT OF THE ORDINARY HAPPEN, WHAT ACTIONS DO YOU TAKE IF YOU ACTUALLY KNOWN, UH, KNOWN AWARE OF SEXUAL OR ENGAGEMENT OR, UM, TOUCHING? THERE SHOULDN'T BE THE, THE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR WOULD BE A, WOULD BE ASKED TO LEAVE, UM, IF WE FOUND OUT ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO, UH, YOU, YOU'RE CHANGING OVER FROM, UM, TO A DANCE HALL NOW? YES.
SO WHAT CAN YOU TELL US THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT AND THIS CHANGED THAN PREVIOUSLY BEFORE THE GIRLS WOULD HAVE TO BE WITH THE LATEX PAINT.
UM, THE HOURS WERE DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE TO CLOSE AT TWO.
UM, AND THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT IT.
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF YOU SEE, UH, IF WE NOTICED, IF SOMEBODY NOTICED, IF THE GIRLS ARE EXPOSED, THE GIRLS WOULD ALL, BEFORE THEY CHECKED IN, BEFORE THEY WENT TO THE FLOOR, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE SPRAYED FROM ALL THEIR PRIVATE PARTS AND AREAS BEFORE THEY EVER HIT THE FLOOR.
AND IF ANYBODY WAS FOUND ON THE FLOOR WITHOUT IT, THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY BE ASKED TO LEAVE THE PROPERTY.
DO YOU AGREE THAT THERE WAS SEXUAL INTERCOURSE THAT OCCURRED ON DECEMBER 7TH IN YOUR CLUB? I WASN'T THERE ON PROPERTY.
I, I, I DON'T, I CAN ONLY GO OFF WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME.
DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS FALSE WITH THE DETECTIVE AND HIS OR THE SERGEANT IN HIS UNIT, UH, FOUND? NO.
SO DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SEXUAL INTERCOURSE OCCURRED IN YOUR PREMISES? OBJECTION.
HE, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTION IF HE HAS ANY REASON TO BELIEVE IT WAS FALSE AND YOU ANSWERED IT.
NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY, I'M TRYING TO ASK A QUESTION.
UH, I'M, I'M OBJECTING TO THAT QUESTION.
UM, WHAT COLOR IS THE LATEX PAINT THAT'S PUT ON THE WOMEN? UH, THERE WAS THREE DIFFERENT COLORS TO MATCH EACH, UH, PERSON'S SKIN TONE.
SO WHAT ARE THE COLORS? UH, NEUTRAL, UH, LIGHT BROWN AND A DARK BROWN.
[01:45:01]
AM I ABLE TO TELL OR ANYBODY ABLE TO TELL EVEN THOUGH THAT THE PAINT THAT THERE ARE GENITALS ARE EXPOSED OR SHOWN? NO.IF FROM A DISTANCE YOU WOULD THINK IT, BUT WHEN YOU LOOKED AT IT UP CLOSE, YOU COULD TELL IT WAS PAINTED.
YOU COULD NOT SEE AREOLA OR ANYTHING OF THIS.
BUT IF I WAS HAVING, IF THERE WAS AN AIR DANCE, THEN I'D BE ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT IT WAS JUST PAIN.
UM, IN REGARD TO PAYING JAMAL WASHINGTON, THE PROMOTER, DID YOU PAY HIM IN CASH? DID THE CLUB PAY HIM IN CASH? YES, HE WOULD GET A PAYOUT.
DID YOU EVER PAY ANYBODY ELSE IN CASH? UM, SOMETIMES, UH, ARTISTS WOULD GET PAYMENT IN CASH.
UM, SOME OF THE OTHER, IF WE HAD TO BRING AN OUTSIDE SECURITY FOR
WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN THAT WERE, SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT HAVE LIMITED TIME.
THE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS? NO.
DID THEY GET PAID BY TRANSFER OF FUNDS? NO.
HOW DID THEY GET PAID BY THE PATRON? I THINK I'M RUNNING OUTTA MY TIME.
WELL, MR. CRONE AND MR. QUINT DON'T REALLY WANNA TALK.
SO, UH, UH, MR. CRON, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.
I, I, I I APOLOGIZE FOR JUMPING.
UM, MR. VEST, I'M REALLY, REALLY CONFUSED BY A LOT OF YOUR TESTIMONY.
UM, SO THE, THE SERGEANT SAID THAT THE WOMEN'S GENITALS AND BREASTS WERE OPENLY EXPOSED, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE PAINTED IN LATEX.
WHO'S RIGHT? AND WHO'S WRONG? I CAN, ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT WOMEN WERE SPRAYED WITH LATEX BEFORE THEY WENT ONTO THE FLOOR.
UH, YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION.
I'M GONNA MOVE ON BECAUSE OF MY TIME.
SO YOU SAID THAT SEX ACTS ARE NOT ALLOWED NOR OR OCCURRING.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE COUPLE THAT WAS CAUGHT HAVING SEX IN THE CLUB? WE NEVER PROMOTED OR MADE IT THAT, THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE ACT WAS GOING ON? HE'S TRYING TO EXPLAIN, IF YOU COULD LET HIM ANSWER PLEASE, THAT WE NEVER PROMOTED OR TOLD ANY GIRL THAT IT WAS EVER.
WE'VE ALWAYS PREACHED THAT IT IS NEVER ALLOWED.
AND I'M NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO ACTED ON THEIR OWN WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE OR OUR PERMISSION TO DO THAT.
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHY WERE THERE MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS OF, OF SEX GOING ON IN THE CLUB? I DON'T KNOW WHAT COMPLAINTS YOU ARE REFERRING TO.
UH, THE SERGEANT CLEARLY STATED THEY HAD MULTIPLE, UH, REPORTS OF, OF IT GOING ON.
I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY OF THOSE REPORTS.
SO MOVING ON, YOUR ATTORNEY OPENLY SAYS THAT THERE WERE TWO ACTS OF SEX GOING ON, THAT THEY WERE CAUGHT.
I WROTE IT DOWN
WELL, I AM JUST GOING OFF MY NOTES ON WHAT YOU SAID, SIR, AND I APPRECIATE IT.
ARE ALL THE DANCERS IN THE LEDGER, MR. VEST? ONLY ONES THAT WERE GIVEN, UH, DANCES.
WELL, WHY WERE THE REST OF THE GIRLS NOT IN THERE? BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KEEP TRACK.
IF THEY DIDN'T GIVE DANCES, WE JUST MADE SURE THAT IF THEY GOT A DANCE, THAT WE MADE SURE THAT THE CLUB OFFERED $5 FOR THE DANCE.
MR. QUINT WILL, UH, PICK US UP ON YOUR SECOND TWO MINUTES.
UM, MR. VEST, UM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN, SO YOU'RE THE REGIONAL MANAGER.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE CHANGE MANAGEMENT AND YOUR LEADERSHIP STYLE AND HOW YOU HANDLED CHANGING FROM SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS TO A DAN A DANCE HALL, AND WHAT TRAINING, IF ANY, THAT YOU PROVIDED YOUR MANAGERS THAT ARE THERE ON SITE? YES, MA'AM.
MA AND ALSO HOW YOU VERIFY THAT THE CHANGE TOOK PLACE? YES, MA'AM.
WE WOULD, UM, WE HAD A MEETING WITH EVERYONE.
WE PURCHASED A SPRAY MACHINE TO SPRAY THE PAINT.
UM, WE EXPLAINED TO EVERYONE THAT, UH, THE HOURS OF OPERATION THAT HAD CHANGED AND PUT 'EM THROUGH, UM, MAKING SURE THAT THE GIRLS WERE PAINTED AND EVERYTHING OF THAT SORT, SORT.
AND FOR MY CLARIFICATION, YOU'VE BEEN SAYING GIRLS, YOU DO MEAN FEMALES OVER THE AGE OF 18, CORRECT? CORRECT.
[01:50:01]
18.WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR YOU? I DID HEAR THAT.
WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR YOU AS A REGIONAL MANAGER TO VERIFY THAT THE INFORMATION THAT YOUR MANAGERS ARE TELLING YOU IS OCCURRING ON IN THE DAILY OPERATION? HOW DO YOU VERIFY THAT? UM, AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE TRUSTWORTHY AND GIVING YOU TRUSTWORTHY INFORMATION? RANDOM INSPECTIONS OF GOING AND MAKING SURE GIRLS ARE IN LATEX AND EVERYTHING IS BEING FOLLOWED.
SO ARE YOU GIVING THEM A HEADS UP THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE THERE OR NO, YOU'RE JUST DROPPING IN? I WOULD JUST GO IN AT RANDOM TIMES.
RANDOM DAYS, NO RHYME OR REASON.
AND WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY OF THAT? UH, THREE TO FOUR TIMES A WEEK.
UM, WELL, MR. SUSI ASKED YOU EARLIER IF SEXUAL ACTS HAD HAPPENED AT THE FACILITY, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT YES, THAT DID HAPPEN.
BUT LET ME BE DIRECT TO, DID YOU KNOW THAT PROSTITUTION TOOK PLACE? I DID NOT HAVE NO CLUE.
DID YOU THINK ANY OF THE OTHER MANAGEMENT AT THAT FACILITY, UH, KNEW OR WAS A PART OF PROSTITUTION OCCURRING THERE? NO.
IS MS. DARLING STILL AN EMPLOYEE? NO.
AND THE MANAGER THAT WAS ON SITE THAT NIGHT, UM, SORRY, THERE'S, THE NAMES ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
IS THAT, IS HE STILL AN EMPLOYEE? NO, HE'S NOT.
I'M GONNA GO AT THREE THINGS I MAY END UP DOING IN TWO DIFFERENT TIMES, UM, THAT NIGHT.
UH, IF A, ANYTHING, A DECISION, SO USING CUSTOMER SERVICE TERMS, IF IT ESCALATED, WHO, WHO IS THE WHO THERE? IT, IT WOULD BE THE FINAL WORD.
IT WOULD BE A NEAR OUR JONATHAN.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN AIR DANCE AND A LAP, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF AN AIR DANCE.
I THINK I KNOW WHAT AN AIR DANCE MEANS.
AND A LAP DANCE ALLOWS GRINDING, CORRECT.
BUT ALSO HAS CLOTHES AS OPPOSED TO SPRAY? IS THAT THE DISTINCTION? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE ON THAT.
THE, THE MONEY FLOW IN THIS CASE IS CUSTOMER $25 TO DANCER, DANCER, $5 TO THE HOUSE? CORRECT.
AND THERE'S NO HOURLY FEE UPFRONT.
THE DANCERS PAY, UM, DANCERS ONLY FEE.
THE DANCER PAY WOULD BE, UH, SPACE RENTAL FEE WHEN THEY GET THERE.
SO, AND THAT'S HOURLY? THAT, THAT'S NOT HOURLY? IT'S A ONE TIME FEE DEPENDING ON WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE.
UM, CAN YOU THINK OF A REASON A PERSON WOULD MEET A CONDOM FOR AN AIR DANCE? NO.
IF SOMEBODY WALKED INTO THE ESTABLISHMENT AND YOU FOUND THEM, YOU KNOW, FULL ASS WITH A CONDOM, WOULD YOU THROW THEM OUT? A HUNDRED PERCENT.
THAT'S OUT OF BALANCE, NOT IN YOUR RULES? YES.
MR. SATCHER, NO QUESTIONS FROM ME.
UM, MS. THOMAS, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE SPACE RENTAL.
WHAT DO THEY DO WITH THE SPACE RENTAL GIRLS, WITH THE EMPLOYEES? UH, THE, THE CONTRACTOR EMPLOYEE, UM, ENTERTAINERS WOULD PAY A SPACE RENTAL FEE TO OPERATE IN THE CLUB.
AS FAR AS WHEN THEY GOT THERE, IT WOULD, THEY WOULD PAY A SPACE RENTAL FEE TO RENT THE LOCKER.
THE LOCKER OR A ROOM, NO LOCKER.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIP SPACE RENTAL.
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
MS. THOMAS, VICE CHAIR TORRES.
I HAVE A COUPLE OF JUST FOLLOW UPS.
UM, HOW, HOW ARE YOU ACTIVELY PREVENTING PROSTITUTION? UM, AT THE CLUB WE POST ALL, UH, BESIDES,
[01:55:01]
BESIDES THE LATEX, I'M SORRY, BESIDES THE LATEX THING, OUTSIDE OF THAT, WHAT, WHAT ARE, WHAT MEASURES ARE YOU DOING TO PREVENT ACTIVE PROSTITUTION? ONE MORE TIME.OUTSIDE OF LATEX ON THE, UM, GIRLS AS YOU CALL THEM, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO PREVENT PROSTITUTION? WE ALL, WE HAVE, UM, REGULAR MEETINGS WITH ALL ENTERTAINERS, STAFF, UH, EXPLAINING THAT IT IS NOT OKAY.
WE DO NOT ALLOW IT, UM, STUFF TO LOOK FOR.
UM, WE POST, UM, HOTLINE NUMBERS IN THE CLUB TO HELP THE GIRLS IF THEY FEEL THEY'RE IN DANGER, IF THEY FEEL THEY'RE BEING TRAFFICKED, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WE PREACH EVERY DAY AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO ALL THE ENTERTAINERS TO NOT, IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.
WHEN'S THE LAST, WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU HAD THIS MEETING AT THAT CLUB? UM, IT'S BEEN CLOSED.
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW LONG NOW, BUT NORMALLY I HAVE A MEETING WITH THE MANAGERS EVERY WEDNESDAY, AND I WOULD DO THAT WITH THE MANAGERS, AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE A MONTHLY MEETING WITH ALL ENTERTAINERS.
SO YOU CAN'T TELL ME THOUGH, THE LAST TIME YOU HAD THIS MEETING, RIGHT? UH, WITH THE MANAGERS WOULD'VE BEEN THAT THE WEDNESDAY OF THAT WEEK, UM, WITH THE ENTERTAINERS? I BELIEVE IT WAS THE 16TH OF DECEMBER, OR I BELIEVE IT WAS THE, UH, NOVEMBER.
I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THE NOVEMBER MEETING WAS.
AND YOU, YOU GO THERE THREE TO FOUR TIMES A WEEK, YOU SAID, TO THIS DALLAS LOCATION? CORRECT.
SO WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU WERE THERE? I WAS THERE THE DAY BEFORE.
THEY HAD THE, UM, INCIDENT WHERE THE MANAGER GOT ARRESTED.
UM, WHAT ACTIONS DO YOU TAKE AGAINST MANAGERS THAT ALLOW ACTIONS THAT, THAT ARE PROHIBITED? THEY WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY TERMINATED.
DO YOU HAVE ANY OF THOSE MANAGERS THAT HAVE BEEN ARRESTED IS STILL ON YOUR PAYROLL? NO.
AND THEN ALSO IN ADDITION, THAT IF YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE PATRIOTS THAT COME TO ADJUST FOR DANCING ONLY THAT FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH SOME OF THE LATEST THERE, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU LET THEM KNOW UPFRONT THAT YOU, YOU WILL HAVE LATEST THAT
WE DON'T TELL THE CUSTOMERS THAT THERE'S LATEX PAINT, NO, WE DIDN'T.
UH, MR.
IS THERE A MANAGER THAT ACTUALLY SITS IN THE BIP ROOM? NO.
THERE'S, UH, NORMALLY A FLOOR GUY, AND WE HAVE FLOOR GUYS WHO ROTATE AROUND THE CLUB TO LOOK AND TRY TO FIND ANYTHING THEY CAN.
IS THERE ONE, SO THE ROTATION, IS IT CONSTANTLY SOMEONE IN THE VIP ROOM? THERE SHOULD BE SOMEONE IN THE IP ROOM AT ALL TIMES IN REGARD TO THE CHAIRS WHERE THE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WAS DISCOVERED.
AND HOW MANY DANCERS OR WOMEN HAVE YOU REMOVED OR TERMINATED SINCE YOU RECEIVED THE DANCE HALL LICENSE ON NOVEMBER 19TH, 2025.
AND BEFORE THE CLOSING, DID YOU SAY BEFORE OR AFTER? I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT, THAT TIME PERIOD.
NOVEMBER 19TH, 2025 TO WHENEVER IT WAS CLOSED.
I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DATE.
I BELIEVE THERE WAS THREE OR FOUR.
I, I DON'T REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
AND WHY DID YOU REMOVE THOSE DANCERS? UH, CUSTOMER.
THEY WOULD, UH, TRY TO OVERCHARGE A CUSTOMER FOR A DANCE.
DID YOU CATCH ANYBODY ELSE DOING, OR HAVE YOU RELEASED ANYBODY FOR SEXUAL INTERCOURSE? NO.
WAS THIS THE FIRST TIME SEXUAL INTERCOURSE HAD EVER OCCURRED IN PANDORA'S KNOWLEDGE? TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN AT PANDORA'S AT THAT LOCATION? I'VE BEEN THERE FOR SEVEN YEARS.
AND THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME EVER? UH, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IT IS JAMAL WASHINGTON.
IS HE STILL A PART OF THE, EITHER A PART OF THE LARGER GROUP.
IS HE STILL ONE OF YOUR PROMOTERS? NO.
BUT YOU STILL HAVE PROMOTERS? YES.
MR. VEST, I I JUST HAVE ONE OR TWO QUICK QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
[02:00:01]
THEY WERE, THE DANCERS WERE, UH, FIRED FOR OVERCHARGING, OR TRYING TO, DON'T THEY NORMALLY NEGOTIATE AND TELL THE, THE PATRON HOW MUCH A DANCE IS BEFORE THEY DO THE DANCE? THERE WAS A SIGN POSTED THAT SAID $25 PER DANCE.AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THEY WOULD TRY TO SAY THAT THE CUSTOMER GOT 10 DANCES AND THEY ONLY WERE BACK THERE FOR TWO SONGS.
SO THE GIRLS WOULD TRY TO GET MORE MONEY OUT OF THE CUSTOMERS, AND WE JUST WOULDN'T LET 'EM GET THE MONEY.
WELL, HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT THEY WERE DOING THAT? THE CUSTOMER WOULD COME TELL US BECAUSE THE GIRL WOULD BE UPSET.
UM, THAT KIND OF SEEMS A BIT ABSURD, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THE REAL WORLD, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TELL SOMEONE YOU'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING, YOU DO IT.
SO WHY ARE YOUR SOME OF YOUR GIRLS OVERCHARGING? I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHY THEY WOULD DO THAT.
I GUESS THEY WANTED TO MAKE MORE MONEY.
WELL, JUST SEEMS A BIT ODD TO ME, BUT THAT'S ALL I HAD FOR YOU.
WHAT, SO MY LAST QUESTIONING WAS ABOUT YOUR MANAGEMENT TRAINING, AND HOW DID YOU KIND OF KINDA RETRAIN THE CUSTOMER THAT NOW LAP DANCES ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED BECAUSE WE'VE CHANGED AND NOW THESE AIR DANCES ARE ALLOWED.
WHAT COMMUNICATION WENT TO YOUR CUSTOMERS? WE WOULD, UM, MAKE SURE THE, WE WOULD TRY TO INFORM THE CUSTOMER THAT, HEY, THE BUSINESS MODEL'S CHANGED, UM, THIS IS WHAT'S ALLOWED NOW.
AND THE GIRLS WOULD ALSO BE THE ONES THAT WOULD MAKE SURE, TRY TO GET THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO.
SO WHAT INCENTIVE DID THE WOMEN HAVE FOR THAT WHEN IT SEEMS LIKE THEY WOULD BE MAKING LESS MONEY WITH THESE AIR DANCES? I WOULD SAY THAT CUSTOMERS STILL WOULD GET DANCES.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS AS FREQUENT.
WE NEVER KEPT UP WITH IT TO THAT POINT.
YOU KNOW, WE ONLY KEPT UP WITH THEIR DANCES WHEN THEY CAME TO, UH, THE VIP LOUNGE.
AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE KEPT UP WITH THEM.
I DON'T KNOW AS FAR AS, UH, CUSTOMERS WOULD GET DANCERS ON THE FLOOR, UM, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO I'M NOT SURE IF THEY MADE LESS MONEY OR NOT.
SO DO YOU KNOW IF THE BUSINESS THEN WAS MAKING LESS MONEY BECAUSE, OR DID YOUR, THE PORTION THAT THE DANCERS PAID TO PANDORA'S WAS THE SAME FOR A, A LA A LAP DANCE, AND THEN WHEN YOU SWITCHED TO AIR DANCE, IS THAT CORRECT? THE CLUB DIDN'T REALLY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY OFF THE DANCES PORTION.
UH, THE, THE CLUB WENT UP IN BUSINESS BECAUSE THE HOURS WERE ABLE TO STAY OPEN LATER.
MR. GONZALEZ, UH, I'LL BE QUICK.
UM, THE DANCERS, UH, WELL, LEMME START.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
UM, SOUNDS LIKE YOU SPLIT YOUR TIME.
AMAYA, YOU MENTIONED THIS PANDORA, UH, OR THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE, CORRECT? YOU SPLIT YOUR TIME AMONGST DIFFERENT, CORRECT.
SO YOU'RE PRETTY SENIOR, CORRECT.
UM, THE, THIS PARTICULAR OPERATION, UM, UM, THE WOMEN WORK UNDER THE TERMS THAT THE, THE MANAGEMENT SETS, RIGHT? THEY'RE THE OTHER INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, AND, BUT THEY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A DEAL THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY WORK, UH, IN THE BUILDING THAT MANAGEMENT PROVIDES.
CORRECT? BECAUSE THAT'S THEORETICALLY WHAT THEY PAY THAT FEE FOR, CORRECT UPFRONT.
DOES THAT FEE CHANGE ON, ON THE DAY OF THE WEEK OR THE TIME OF THE DAY? UH, TIME OF THE DAY BASED ON THE TIME THEY COME IN.
IF THEY COME IN EARLIER, THEY COME IN LIKE THAT.
UM, HOW ARE WE DOING ON TIME? UH, I SUPPOSE AFTER, I THINK ALL, ALL WITNESSES HAVE BEEN CALLED AND, UH, THE EVIDENTIARY
SO WE NOW, UH, GO TO CLOSING STATEMENTS.
[02:05:02]
TAKE A MOMENT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION IN THIS IMPORTANT MATTER TODAY.AND I'M GONNA MAKE THIS VERY BRIEF, RE ALREADY HEARD
YOU CAN USE YOUR COMMON SENSE TO COME TO THE CONCLUSION, BUT THE ONLY ANSWER HERE IS TO UPHOLD THE REVOCATION OF THE
THAT WILL, UM, I FIRST ONE, WE WE'RE NOT CONSIDERING THE DENIAL OF THE RENEWALS RENEWAL IN THIS HEARING, CORRECT? TRUE.
THIS WE'RE, WE'RE CONSIDERING WHETHER TO UPHOLD THE REVOCATION.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, UH, IF THIS ACT DID IN, DID OCCUR ON DECEMBER 7TH, UM, THIS WAS AN ACT WHAT'S CALLED PUBLIC LUDENESS.
AND IF IT DID OCCUR, PUBLIC LEWDNESS DID OCCUR.
THAT IS NOT A BASIS FOR REVOCATION OF A LICENSE.
SO WHAT I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, THE BASIS THAT MUST BE DETERMINED BY THE BOARD TODAY IS WHETHER MANAGEMENT KNOWINGLY ALLOWED PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES.
AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF, OF A, OF THE MONEY CHANGING HANDS FOR PROSTITUTION, UH, OFFERS AND ACCEPTANCE FOR SEX ACTS.
THERE'S, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.
UH, MOREOVER, UM, THERE'S NO, UH, EVIDENCE THAT THE TRUE MANAGEMENT OF THE COMPANY HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS WAS, THIS ONE INCIDENT HAD OCCURRED.
UH, SO IT'S, I I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS HAS GOT WHAT WE CALL BAD FACTS IN FRONT OF US.
AND IT SOUNDS BAD, BUT FROM, FROM A PURELY LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, UH, IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT BURDEN FOR THE CITY TO SHOW THAT THE MANAGEMENT KNOWINGLY ALLOWED THIS.
YOU HEARD MR. VEST TESTIFY, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS, THERE WAS SOME GREAT ARGUMENT ABOUT THE CLUB GETTING ALL THE MONEY FOR WRISTBANDS TO GET INTO THE VIP AREA, AND CLEARLY THAT WASN'T THE CASE.
THEY WERE, THEY WERE KEEPING TRACK OF WHO DID DANCES AND WHO WERE ENTITLED TO FUNDS, AND WHAT $5 WAS SUPPOSED TO COME BACK TO THE CLUB THAT WASN'T, THAT WASN'T KNOWINGLY ALLOWING PROSTITUTION.
THAT'S JUST PART OF A BUSINESS MODEL.
AND, AND I, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE, WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THIS VIP AREA IS KIND OF LIKE THIS AREA RIGHT HERE WHERE YOU CAN SEE IN THE VIP AREA FROM ANYWHERE.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S A CLOSED ROOM.
I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL GOT A PICTURE OF THAT OR NOT, BUT, BUT IT, IT'S A, IT'S AN OPEN AREA.
UM, SO THE, THE, I I, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IS, IS, IS THIS MR. WASHINGTON.
UM, HE WAS, HE WAS A PROMOTER.
HE WAS AN INDEPENDENT THIRD PARTY.
HE BROUGHT IN ACTS, HE BROUGHT, HE WAS BROUGHT IN FOR THIS NEW BUSINESS MODEL.
LET'S, LET'S BRING IN, UH, WHATEVER GROUPS, AND LET'S BRING IN MORE PEOPLE AND LET'S MAKE MORE MONEY.
BUT THAT DID NOT MAKE HIM A MANAGER.
THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT HE WAS A MANAGER OF PANDORA'S, SIMPLY BECAUSE HE WAS NOT A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT LAP DANCES, WHICH I REALLY THINK IS IRRELEVANT.
BUT ACCORDING TO THE SOB ORDINANCE, I WILL TELL YOU THAT A, AN ENTERTAINER CANNOT TOUCH A PATRON WHEN SHE IS IN A STATE OF UNDRESS.
IT'S CALLED THE NO TOUCH RULE.
WELL, A, WE'RE NOT AN SOB, WE'RE A DANCE ALL, AND B, THERE'S NOTHING THAT PROHIBITS LAP DANCES UNLESS IT MOVES FORWARD TO THE CASE OF BEING PUBLIC LEWDNESS.
AND EVEN THEN, PUBLIC LEWDNESS IS NOT CROWNS FOR REVOCATION OF A DANCEHALL LICENSE.
GO AHEAD AND COMPLETE YOUR SENTENCE HERE.
SO I I, I APPRECIATE THE BOARD'S, UH, TIME TODAY.
AND, AND PLEASE ASK YOU TO RULE ON THIS BASED ON THE CLUB ALLEGEDLY KNOWINGLY ALLOWING PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES, WHICH DID NOT HAPPEN.
[02:10:02]
UH, SO BEFORE I TAKE A MOTION, I'LL JUST QUICKLY GO OVER AGAIN WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO.UH, WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER AN ACTIVE PROSECUTION, UH, PROSTITUTION, UH, OCCURRED ON THE SITE, UM, UM, BY, UH, AN EMPLOYEE OR A LICENSEE, AND THAT THE EMPLOYEE OR LICENSEE ALLOWED IT, AND THEN NOT, UM, THAT IS WHAT THE, UH, YOU KNOW, CHIEF, UH, BASED, UH, THERE'S A LETTER OF REVOCATION ON KNOW TO EVALUATE.
OUR STANDARD IS PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE, MORE LIKELY TRUE THAN NOT, BUT NOT CLEAR AND CONVINCING, NOT CRIMINAL STATEMENT.
SO IT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DECIDE.
IS THERE A MOTION? IS IT POSSIBLE TO TAKE FIVE MINUTE RECESS? THE BOARD WILL RECESS, UH, UNTIL, UM, 11:14 PM THANK YOU.
[02:15:09]
THAT HARD? YEAH.[02:20:39]
YOU GETTING HERE.WHAT'S GOING ON? SO I SEE VICE CHAIR TORRES, RIGHT? UH, DID MR. IS MR. CROW? YEAH.
WE'RE JUST MISSING MR. ILLA HERE, AND HE IS IN THE HALLWAY.
UM, AND THEN WE WILL GET BACK TO
[02:26:15]
BACK ON EVERYONE.I SEE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, LINE 10.
IT'S 11:24 AM ON THE 16TH OF APRIL, 2026.
LICENSE APPEAL BOARD IS, UH, BACK IN SESSION.
AND, UH, I'M NOW SEEKING A MOTION.
AND THE MOTION IS TO EITHER, UH, AFFIRM OR REVERSE THE, UH, DIRECTOR'S, UH, REVOCATION.
MAKE A MOTION, MR. ILLA, TO AFFIRM THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF POLICE.
ASSUME WE GOT THESE NICE LITTLE WRITINGS HERE SO I CAN READ OFF OF IT.
BECAUSE THE, BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY SHOW THAT THE LICENSEE OR AN EMPLOYEE DID NO INLY ALLOW PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES.
SECOND, IS THERE A SECOND? UH, WHO SECONDED? MR. QUINT? YES, SIR.
THE MOTION IS MR. CILLA TO AFFIRM, SECONDED BY MR. QUINT.
I THINK THAT WE'VE HEARD, UM, PLENTY OF INFORMATION, EVIDENCE, UM, AS WELL AS THE QUESTIONS, UH, DREW OUT WHATEVER ANSWERS THE BOARD WAS LOOKING FOR, AND IN REGARD TO, UM, SEPARATE MATTERS THAT ARE OCCURRING, WHETHER THEY'RE CRIMINAL, UM, THE CRIMINAL COURTS, CIVIL COURTS, THAT'S NOT FOR US TO DECIDE IN REGARD TO HOW WE'RE DECIDING.
I BELIEVE THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY THAT, UM, DEMONSTRATES THIS KNOWINGLY ALLOWING PROSTITUTION ON THE PREMISES.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT IS A NECESSITY TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE PROSTITUTION ACT THAT OCCURRED.
UM, I DO BELIEVE, AT LEAST MY OPINION, THAT, UH, WHAT WE'VE HEARD, THAT WE ACTUALLY HEARD OF TWO I, UM, NOW WHETHER, UM, AND I ALSO LOOK AT AND JUST THROW OUT THAT IN REGARD TO SECTION 14 DASH 11 IN REGARD TO THE REVOCATION, UM, UNDER THE DALLAS CODE OR THE RELEVANT CODE THAT IN D OF THAT SECTION, IT DOES STATE AND I'LL, I GUESS IF WE NEED TO HAVE CLARIFICATION, WE CAN THAT SUBSEQUENT TO REVOCATION, THE CHIEF OF POLICE FINDS THAT THE BASIS FOR THE REVOCATION ACTION HAS BEEN CORRECTED OR ABATED THE APPLICANT MAY APPLY FOR AND BE GRANTED A LICENSE IF AT LEAST 90 DAYS OF ELAPSE SINCE THE DATE THE RAMIFICATION BECAME FINAL.
SO AT LEAST FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT APPEARS, AND I GUESS WE CAN GET THAT CORRECTION BY OUR CITY ATTORNEY THAT HELPS US, HELPS THE BOARD, WHETHER IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT, IF THAT CAN BE PROVEN OR THEY HAVE AN OPTION TO NOT EVEN WAIT THE YEAR, BUT ACTUALLY TO DEMONSTRATE, UM, A CORRECTION OR ABATEMENT.
SO THAT'S MY SUPPORT FOR THE, UM, MOTION.
UH, OBVIOUSLY IF I'M, UH, UH, DEFER TO OUR, UM, BOARD ATTORNEY, THE, THE, UM, USUALLY WE HAVE A FIRM, UH, UH,
[02:30:01]
DENY OR, UM, UH, MODIFY IN THIS CASE THE LANGUAGE IS SHALL.UM, AND I AGREE THAT, THAT, THAT WHAT YOU EXISTS, BUT, BUT THAT'S NOT AT HAND HERE.
AND, AND CERTAINLY THE CHIEF DID NOT ON THE SIXTH, THAT'S MY OPINION.
HE WAS READING THE PART OF THE CODE THAT GIVES SOME RELIEF IN THE FUTURE IF THINGS ARE ABATED, ESSENTIALLY.
AND MY RULING IS THAT'S NOT RELEVANT HERE, BUT THEY HAVE THE OPTION, NOT US.
THE CHIEF OF POLICE CAN FIND THAT IF THEY CORRECTED OR ABATED, UM, THEY CAN APPLY FOR AND BE GRANTED A LICENSE IF 90 DAYS HAS THE ALLOWED.
BUT THE QUESTION IS IT CAN'T COME FROM US.
THIS IS FOR THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
MR. MR. QUINT, YOU SECONDED? YES, SIR.
UM, UM, THEY ORIGINALLY WERE SOB AND NOW THEY'RE HIDING UNDER THE CLOAK OF, OF A DANCE HALL.
YET THE SAME ACTIVITY IS, IS, IS OCCURRING.
UM, THE APPELLANT SAID IF THE ACT OCCURRED, THAT HAS BEEN REFERRED TO AS A COUPLE HAVING SEX.
UM, THEY WERE CAUGHT, THEY WERE ARRESTED.
THEY OPENLY ADMITTED, HE OPENLY ADMITTED HE PAID FOR SEX.
SHE OPENLY ADMITTED THAT SHE, UH, WAS PAID, AND THIS WAS POST MIRANDA, SO TO SPEAK.
ON TOP OF THAT, THEY'VE HAD MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS OF SEXUAL TRAFFICKING ACTIVITY, UH, PER THE SERGEANT, UH, TESTIFYING.
SO I THINK THEY CLEARLY ARE, UM, STILL HAVING SEXUAL ACTIVITY GOING ON IN THE PREMISES.
DOES ANYONE WANNA SPEAK AGAINST THE MOTION, MR. CHAIR? I DON'T KNOW IF I WANNA SPEAK AGAINST IT.
I'M, I JUST BEFORE YOU SPEAK, IF ANYONE WANTS TO SPEAK AGAINST IT, I WANNA GIVE 'EM A CHANCE, THEN YOU'RE NEXT.
OKAY, MR. AL, BECAUSE I TEND TO AGREE WITH MR. UH, QUENT, WHAT, WHAT HE JUST SAID.
HOWEVER, I, I GUESS PART OF MY HESITANCE OR QUESTIONING IS WE HEAR THAT THERE'S EVIDENCE, BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET IN TERMS OF WHAT THESE TWO, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ARRESTED, WHAT THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT IN THE EVIDENCE HERE.
IT'S NOT, IT HASN'T BEEN PROVIDED BY THE CITY.
THERE'S BEEN NO BODY CAM FOOTAGE.
THERE HAVE BEEN NOTHING BESIDES JUST THE TESTIMONY OF ONE OF THE OFFICERS AND THE POLICE REPORT THAT WAS RIDDLED WITH ISSUES, I GUESS.
SO, UM, I DUNNO, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THIS ONE.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT THAT I, AND MAYBE I'M MISSING IT.
MAYBE SOMEBODY CAN CORRECT ME.
I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY EVIDENCE IN THE CITY'S FILES WHAT STATEMENTS COME FROM THESE PEOPLE.
THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS THAT THEY DID ENGAGE IN PROSTITUTION.
HE DID PAY FOR IT, AND SHE DID ACCEPT FUNDS FOR IT, AND THE MANAGEMENT KNEW.
I JUST, I'M STRUGGLING WITH THAT.
UM, I'LL JUST GO DOWN THE LINE, MR. SACKER.
YEAH, I'D, I'D LIKE TO JUST ASK REAL QUICK, UH, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE BASED OFF OF THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS, UM, ABOUT WHERE IT SAYS THAT THERE WAS PAYMENT EXCHANGED.
UH, I I'M HEARING TWO DIFFERENT STORIES RIGHT NOW, AND I JUST WANTED TO DOUBLE CHECK AND I UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS READING.
UM, WELL, I THINK MAYBE MOST OF US ONLY UNDERSTOOD ABOUT 10 OF YOUR WORDS.
NO, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT THAT.
YEAH, I, I JUST, ARE WE ALLOWED TO USE THE CITY'S EVIDENCE AFTER MIRANDA FOR WHAT? BOTH, UM, PROSTITUTION CHARGED, UH, UM, UH, THE, THE, THE DANCER AND THE, AS THE, THE PATRON, THEY BOTH SAID IN A AFTER MIRANDA STATEMENT, AND IT'S IN THE CITY'S EVIDENCE.
ARE WE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT? I I'M SORRY.
IS THAT THE QUESTION EARLIER, OR CAN I CLARIFY MY QUESTION? MR. CHAIR? YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY ALLOWED TO USE THE EVIDENCE.
MR. GON, UH, LET'S, LET'S NOT DO A WHOLE OH, NO, I WAS, GO AHEAD, VERIFY, CLARIFYING TO THE CHAIR.
NO, UH, MY, MY HESITANCY IS THAT I'M NOT SEEING THOSE STATEMENTS IN THE EVIDENCE.
IF IT WAS IN THE EVIDENCE, THEN I THINK THAT'S FANTASTIC.
SO THE ANSWER IS YES, YOU CAN USE THE EVIDENCE.
SO THEN FROM THAT TO MAKE OUR DECISION BASED ON THE EVIDENCE AND THE TESTIMONY BEFORE US.
SO I WOULD JUST POINT TO PAGE 1 41 THEN IS THAT'S, THAT'S A
[02:35:01]
AFFIDAVIT FOR ARREST WARRANT.UH, AND THEN FROM THERE IT GOES THROUGH, THAT'S THE LAWSUIT WHAT DARLING MENTIONED.
SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING IN THAT LAWSUIT.
IT HAS AN AFFIDAVIT FOR ARREST WARRANT.
ARE THOSE NOT STATEMENTS MADE AFTER MIRANDA? YOU CAN CONSIDER ALL OF IT.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TIMING AND YEAH, YOU HAVE TO WEIGH IT, BUT YEAH, SO I'M WEIGHING PAGE 1 41.
UH, IT SAYS ON DECEMBER 7TH, IT WENT THROUGH ALL OF WHAT WE'VE GONE OH THROUGH ON THIS.
UM, AND THAT WOULD BE MY EVIDENCE, UH, COMMISSIONER GONZALEZ FOR, FOR LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY HAS PROVIDED, UH, THAT, SO, SO THAT, THAT WOULD JUST MY COMMENTARY ON, ON THE AFFIRMATION.
I, I WOULD, UH, URGE YOU TO, TO KEEP THE, THE TIMING IN MIND, THE DATES OF THE FENCES AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
BUT, BUT THAT'S ALL I'D SAY TO THE EXTENT YOU'RE ASKING.
UM, MS. THOMAS, I THINK THERE IS A PARK GOING ON OUTSIDE.
MS. THOMAS, I THINK YOU'RE MUTED.
UM, AND YOU'RE SO SMALL ON MY SCREEN, I CANNOT TELL IF YOU'RE TRYING TO SPEAK OR AM I UNMUTED NOW? THERE YOU GO.
UH, I TEND TO, UH, AGREE WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
UH, ALTHOUGH I, I TOO WISH I COULD SEE MORE EVIDENCE, UH, IN THIS CASE, UH, ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE NOT THE ACTUAL, ACTUAL ACT OF INTERCOURSE, BUT AT LEAST, UM, SOMETHING THAT SOLIDIFIES THAT FOR ME.
BUT I TEND TO BELIEVE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THAT'S WHERE I STAND ON IT.
UM, WITH UPHOLDING THIS AND, UM, SIDING WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, I, I DO ALSO THINK ONE INSTANCE OF PROSTITUTION IS ENOUGH, AND I, UM, JUST, WE HAVE THE EVIDENCE FROM THE SERGEANT, WHICH WE, I WEIGH HEAVILY BECAUSE HE'S, YOU KNOW, HERE, UM, TEST TESTIFYING TO HIS ROLE.
AND HE'S, UM, BELIEF IN, AND, YOU KNOW, HE ALSO SAID THAT HE AGREES WITH PROSTITUTION BEING DONE ONSITE.
AND SO, UM, THIS IS HIS LINE OF WORK.
I'M GONNA CONSIDER THAT HEAVILY.
UM, AND SO THAT WEIGHS HEAVILY TOWARDS MY DECISION TO, UM, AGREE WITH MR. UH, IN, IN ADDITION, WE, I, I WASN'T SATISFIED WITH THE EVIDENCE ON THE APPELLANT'S SIDE THAT THEY ARE ACTIVELY PURSUANT OR ACTIVELY PREVENTING
SO THERE'S A BIG, UM, ABSENCE THERE IN MY OPINION.
UM, DR. JACKSON, UM, I AM, UM, ALSO AGREEING WITH THE, UM, CHIEF AFFIRM THE MOTION AS WELL.
AND I THINK THAT, UH, IT ALSO ALLOWED ME TO, UM, BACK IN LADY, UM, WITH THE CHIEF AND, UM, SHOW THAT CASE.
BUT, UM, JUST LISTEN TO THE DISCUSSION.
WE HEARD THAT, I JUST BELIEVE THAT, UM,
UH, LET'S SEE, MR. CILLA AND MR. QUIN.
AND, UH, YEAH, I THINK THAT, UH, THE SERGEANT, UH, ARTICULATED, UH, THE EVIDENCE AS BEST HE COULD.
I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BETWEEN THE, UH, I DON'T KNOW.
HE MENTIONED NOTHING ABOUT THE, UH, THE, THE BODY PAINT, UH, WHICH WAS A, DIDN'T FIND THAT, UH, THAT THE SERGEANT MENTIONED THAT AT ALL.
I FOUND THAT VERY BEFUDDLING AND, UH, VERY MUCH, UH, INCLINED TO AFFIRM, UH, THE DECISION AS IS.
[02:40:01]
UNION STILL WITH US? YES.UM, ARE, IS THIS OPEN DISCUSSION OR ARE WE VOTING? UH, THERE'S A MOTION.
I HAVE NO COMMENTS ON VOTE THEN ON THE FLOOR.
AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO, TO DISCUSS.
I HAVE NO, I HAVE NO COMMENTS ON THE MOTION.
UM, MR. GONZALEZ, YOU KIND OF ALREADY SPOKE, BUT GO, UH, NO, UH, I ALREADY SPOKE.
I DON'T HOW MUCH TO SAY OTHER THAN THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT PAGE 1 41, WHAT HAS BEEN ASKING FOR THE ENTIRE TIME.
WHOEVER IT WAS, MR. CHAIR, UH, TOLD YOU THAT.
SO ME, I'M ACTUALLY NOT SURE WHETHER 1 41, UH, UH, WASN'T A, UH, INCIDENT REPORT IN LATE JANUARY, BUT, UH, I DON'T, SO HERE'S WHERE I THINK THE HONOR, UM, I AM, UH, I MAKE NO DECISION.
UH, I, I DON'T, I DON'T NEED TO CONSIDER THE EVIDENCE AFTER, UM, AFTER THE, THE DATE OF, OF, UM, OF NOTICE.
UM, I CAN LOOK AT THE, UM, THE EVIDENCE AND MY, UH, REMEMBER THAT THE STANDARD IS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT.
SO I HAVE A FIRST PERSON, UH, FIRST PERSON TESTIMONY, UH, AND I HAVE, UH, AFFIDAVIT, UH, I, I HAVE, UM, I HAVE TESTIMONY OR WHATEVER, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, UM, AN INTERVIEW MISSION POST MIRANDA, UM, THAT I, I WEIGH WITH A LITTLE BIT OF SKEPTICISM SIMPLY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN THAT SITUATION HAVE, HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO, TO PUSH THE, UH, UH, TO PASS THE BUCK.
BUT, UM, WHEN YOU HAVE
AND WHEN IT HAPPENS, UH, ON THE PREMISE OF, OF THE, OF THE, UM, UH, OF, OF THE APPELLANT, UH, UNDER THE SORT OF THE BUSINESS TERMS. UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T MAKE AN OPINION ON WHETHER, UM, WHETHER THE DANCERS ARE EMPLOYERS OR NOT.
I, I WOULD NOTE THAT THE CITY, THE, THE STATUTE HERE, UH, GOES OUT OF ITS WAY NOT TO CONSIDER, UH, EMPLOYEES IN THE W 2 CENTS.
SO I, I'M LOOKING REALLY AT THE, THE MORE SENIOR PEOPLE WHO WERE SITTING THERE WRITING SOMETHING DOWN.
UH, AND I JUST, IT'S, UH, CERTAINLY IT HAPPENED ON SITE.
UM, AND, UM, SO ON A DIFFERENT SET OF EVIDENTIARY STANDARD, I WOULD CHALLENGE THINGS.
BUT AS WE ARE, AND THE DECISION WE HAVE TO MAKE, I THINK, UH, I HAVE TO, I'LL SUPPORT
WE CAN GO AROUND A SECOND TIME, OR WE CAN TAKE THE VOTE.
DOES ANYONE WANT TO SPEAK A SECOND TIME? MOVE TO VOTE.
MR. SAXON, PLEASE, UH, SAY NAY OR I, I VOTE TO AFFIRM, WHICH I THINK MEANS YAY.
DR. JACKSON? YES, MR. ILLA AGREE TO AFFIRM MR. CRON? YES.
MS. SHIN, AGREE TO AFFIRM YOU GUYS AREN'T GONNA DO THIS, YES OR NO? HUH? ALRIGHT, MR. GONZALEZ? YES.
SO THE, THE MOTION, UH, SUCCEEDS UNANIMOUSLY.
AND JUST SO WE KNOW THAT IS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, OR IS IT 11? ALRIGHT, UH, UNANIMOUSLY.
AT THIS POINT, I HAVE HEARD FROM COUNSEL THAT, UH, YOU THINK THAT THE NEXT CASES COULD BE DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY.
UM, I'D LIKE TO, UH, I DON'T EXACTLY, SO I'D LIKE TO HAVE FIVE MINUTES EACH AND NOT TALK ABOUT THE MERITS OF THESE CASE.
[02:45:01]
IF WE CAN DO THIS ADMINISTRATIVELY, GREAT.IF NOT, WE'LL HEAR THE CASE, BUT I, UM, SO I'LL, I'LL LET THE APPELLANT, UH, SPEAK FIRST AND JUST LET'S STAY OUT OF THE MERITS.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PERCEIVED GIG.
I'M EVEN GONNA TRY TO MAKE IT EASIER.
UM, THE APPELLANT WILL WITHDRAW THE APPEAL OF THE PANDORA'S DENIAL OF THE RENEWAL, UM, AS THAT'S GONNA BE SOMEWHAT MUTED ANYWAY.
SO I, I WOULD LIKE TO, TO STICK JUST TO THE, THE PLAO OH NINE CASE, WHICH IS THE DENY DENIAL OF THE RENEWAL OF A DANCEHALL APPLICATION FOR A DIFFERENT LOCATION AND A DIFFERENT COMPANY AND A DIFFERENT ESTABLISHMENT.
UM, THAT'S CALLED THE PLATINUM CLUB.
IT'S LOCATED ON WALNUT RIDGE IN DALLAS, TEXAS.
AND, UH, THAT IS OWNED BY A SEPARATE ENTITY CALLED TUCKER ENTERTAINMENT, LLC.
UM, THE, THE CHIEF OF POLICE DENIED THE RENEWAL OF ITS DANCE HALL APPLICATION.
IN OTHER WORDS, IT HAD AN EXISTING APPLICATION.
IT, IT FILED FOR RENEWAL IN ROUGHLY DECEMBER, 2025.
THE CHIEF OF POLICE DENIED THAT LICENSE, THAT RENEWAL, UH, STATING THAT WHEN THE CHIEF OF POLICE REVOKES A LICENSE, THE REVOCATION WILL CONTINUE FOR ONE YEAR AND THE LICENSEE MAY NOT APPLY OR WILL BE ISSUED ANY CLASS OF DANCEHALL LICENSE FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF REVOCATION.
SO THAT'S THE LETTER THAT, THAT WE RECEIVED ON PLATINUM.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THAT IS NOT A PROPER RECITATION OF SECTION 1411 D OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE, BECAUSE IN, IN MY EVIDENCE, AND AND I CAN READ IT TO YOU, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, IT SAYS FROM THE DATE THE REVOCATION BECOMES FINAL.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, WHENEVER THIS APPLICATION CAME IN, IT IS OUR POSITION THAT THERE WAS NO FINAL REVOCATION.
AND THEN WE RELY ON THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S, UM, DENIAL LETTER, WHICH IS ON PAGE 37 OF THE CITY'S, UH, PLATINUM CLUB EXHIBITS.
AND, AND SO THAT, THAT WAS THE LETTER WHERE THEY REVOKED PANDORA'S LICENSE.
THEY REVOKED IT ON JANUARY 5TH, 2026.
AND THE LAST SENTENCE SAYS, PURSUANT TO DALLAS CITY CODE SECTION 14 DASH TWO, THIS REVOCATION SHALL BE FINAL UNLESS APPEAL.
SO WE HAVE APPEALED THAT CASE, WHICH WAS JUST HEARD TODAY.
THEREFORE, AS OF THE DATE, THE PLATINUM RENEWAL WAS DENIED, THE REVOCATION WAS NOT FINAL.
SO YOU COULDN'T, SO THE CHIEF OF POLICE COULD NOT HAVE DENIED THE RENEWAL OF PLATINUM'S DANCEHALL LICENSE BECAUSE ON THAT DATE, JANUARY 13TH, 2026, THE REVOCATION WAS NOT FINAL.
I KNOW THIS SOUNDS PROCEDURAL, BUT IT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE, THE CHIEF COULD NOT HAVE DENIED IT ON THE BASIS OF THE REVOCATION BECAUSE THE REVOCATION WAS NOT FINAL.
AND THE OTHER THING IS, I, I BELIEVE THAT YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT IT IS NOW FINAL.
IT IS NOW WE ARE THE FINAL ADMIT.
OKAY, WELL, UNLESS IT GETS APPEAL.
WELL, I, I'LL LET THAT GET ARGUMENT
UM, BUT, BUT NO, FOR IT'S ABOVE, I, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I WANNA GO BACK TO JAN ON JANUARY 13TH, THE DAY THE LETTER CAME OUT DENYING PLATINUM, THE RENEWAL OF ITS DANCEHALL APPLICATION, DIFFERENT BUSINESS, DIFFERENT LOCATION, UM, AND, AND IT'S SAME OWNERSHIP GROUP, OKAY? BUT, BUT ON THAT DATE, THE REVOCATION WAS NOT FINAL.
AND THEREFORE THAT DENIAL WAS IMPROPERLY MADE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE APPEALED THAT.
AND AGAIN, YOU STARTED TO GET INTO TO SOME FACTS.
I, I REALLY JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT IF WE CAN MAKE THIS DECISION BASED ON WHAT THE LAW SAYS, DO IT.
SO THE CITY'S POSITION IS THAT, UH, PER THIS, IT'S THE SAME APPLICANT.
THAT'S THE REASON IT WAS DENIED.
SO, UH, SECTION SAYS, WHEN THE CHIEF OF POLICE REVOKES A LICENSE, THE REVOCATION, REVOCATION WILL CONTINUE FOR ONE YEAR, AND THE LICENSEE MAY NOT APPLY FOR OR BE ISSUED ANY CLASS OF DANCEHALL LICENSE FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF REVOCATION.
YOU'RE CORRECT TODAY THAT THAT REVOCATION IS FINAL.
AND THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS SECTION OF THE CODE
[02:50:01]
MAKES SENSE IS THAT IF WE DENIED IT ONCE THE INITIAL REVOCATION HAPPENS, BECAUSE WE CAN'T GO BACK AFTERWARDS.NOW, IF WE'VE ISSUED IT, AND I THINK YOU GUYS ARE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE SAME PARAGRAPH TOO, IS THERE WAY WE CAN JUST HAVE IT IN FRONT OF US? IT'S, IT'S IN OUR, IN OUR EVIDENCE ON PA EIGHT OR PLA OH NINE.
WHAT PAGE IS IT ON YOUR, UH, WELL, MR. CHAIR, I ALSO PROVIDED ALL THE RELEVANT CODE PROVISIONS TO THE BOARD MEMBERS, AND IT WOULD BE ON THE FIRST PAGE, SUBSECTION D 14 DASH 11.
WHEN THE CHIEF OF POLICE REVOKES A LICENSE, THE REVOCATION WILL CONTINUE FOR ONE YEAR, AND THAT LICENSING MAY NOT APPLY FOR OR BE ISSUED ANY CLASS OF DANCEHALL LICENSE FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE REVOCATION BECAME FINAL.
IF SUBSEQUENT TO REVOCATION, THE CHIEF OF POLICE FINDS THAT THE BASIS FOR THE REVOCATION ACTION HAS BEEN CORRECTED OR ABATED THE APPLICANT MAY APPLY FOR AND BE GRANTED A LICENSE IF AT LEAST 90 DAYS ELAPSE SINCE THE DATE THE REVOCATION BECAME FINAL.
IF THE LICENSE WAS REVOKED UNDER SUBSECTION B EIGHT ONLY, UH, B EIGHT AND B EIGHT SAYS A LICENSEE OF CLASS C DANCE HALLS IN VIOLATION OF THE LOCAL REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 1421 OF THIS CHAPTER, B EIGHT, ONLY THE APPLICANT MAY BE GRANTED A LICENSE IMMEDIATELY UPON COMPLIANCE WITH SECTION 1421 OF THIS CHAPTER.
IF THE LICENSE WAS REVOKED UNDER SUBSECTION B SIX, UH, THE APPELLANT MAY, THE APPLICANT MAY NOT APPLY OR BE GRANTED ANOTHER LICENSE TO THE APPROPRIATE NUMBER OF YEARS REQUIRED UNDER SECTION 14 THREE A EIGHT B AS ELAPSE.
SO THAT'S FRANKLY, SO I'LL, I'LL ASK OUR BOARD OF ATTORNEY FOR AN OPINION, OR IS IT SOMETHING WE NEED TO FIGURE AS A BOARD? I UNDERSTAND.
CAN I ADDRESS THIS ISSUE? I, I HAVE ASKED OUR, UH, BOARD ATTORNEY TO LOOK AT IT AND GIVING, GIVING HER A SECOND TO THINK THROUGH IT.
WE CAN TAKE MORE THAN A SECOND, IF YOU WOULD.
WELL, IN SECTION 14 DASH 12 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE, IT SAYS, IF THE CHIEF OF POLICE DENIES THE ISSUANCE OR SUSPENDS OR REVOKES THE LICENSE, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO GIVE NOTICE AND THE AGREED PARTY MAY APPEAL THE DECISION TO THIS BOARD.
THE FILING OF OF AN APPEAL STATES THE ACTION OF THE CHIEF POLICE AND SUSPENDING OR REVOKING LICENSE UNTIL THE PERMANENT LICENSE APPEAL BOARD MAKES A FINAL DECISION.
SO THE REVOCATION WILL BE FINAL UNTIL WHEN THIS BOARD MAKES ITS DECISION SINCE THE APPELLATE APPEALED THE DECISION NOT LAST.
SO IN, IN THIS CASE, THE, THE DENIAL RESTS ON A, A PRIOR REVOCATION, THAT'S WHAT TRUE.
IT RESTS ON THE PANDORA REVOCATION.
SO NOW THE QUESTION IS TEMPORAL AND AND THE ANSWER MAY BE BOARD.
YOU GUYS GOTTA, HERE, HERE WE ARE.
IF THAT'S THE CASE WE'LL DO, UM, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF PROCEED LIKE BY LAW IS THE, UH, UH, THE, THE CHIEF'S NOTICE DEFICIENT BECAUSE IT REQUIRED A FINAL REVOCATION, WHICH DID NOT HAPPEN UNTIL TODAY.
IS THAT CLOSE ENOUGH TO ASK HIM THE CORRECT QUESTION? HE WAS, I WOULD SAY THAT'S AN ACCURATE STATEMENT.
SO THE CODE IN SECTION 1411 SAYS FROM ONE YEAR THE DATE RE THE DATE THE REVOCATION BECAME FINAL.
AND THE FINAL DECISION WAS, UM, WE AS A BOARD ARE, UH, GENERALLY OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW THE OPINION OF OUR ATTORNEY UNLESS IT VIOLATES STATE LAW.
UM, SO IF WE START GETTING THE FACTS, WE'RE GONNA CALL THE CASE.
SO THE, THE, THE QUESTION WELL,
[02:55:04]
COURT OF ORDER? YES, SIR.UM, I'LL LET OUR ATTORNEY, OUR CITY ATTORNEY STOP COUGHING.
I THINK THAT THERE IS, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND WHEN THE SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION ACTUALLY IS WHEN IT'S UPHELD, IT SAYS IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT SECTION, 14 DASH 12 APPEALS, IT SAYS, A SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION UPHELD BY THE BOARD, WHICH HAS OCCURRED TODAY, TAKES EFFECT ON THE FIRST MIDNIGHT.
THAT IS AT LEAST 24 HOURS AFTER THE BOARD ISSUES ITS DECISION.
SO IN ESSENCE, NOT, NOT TO ARGUE EITHER SIDE, TO BE HONEST, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE FINAL, UM, THE REVOCATION IN REGARD TO US GOING BACK TO D, WHICH IS UNDER 14 DASH 11 D.
UM, IF WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS FINAL, IT SEEMS THAT IT ACTUALLY IS NOT FINAL UNTIL TOMORROW.
AM I ACCURATE IN THAT INTERPRETATION? UM, NOW I'M GONNA PUT THE LAW LICENSE ON THE LINE
THE FINALITY OF THE DECISION IS TODAY, BUT IT DOESN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL OKAY, TOMORROW.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, DO WE TAKE, CAN, CAN THE BOARD TAKE A PROCEDURAL? TYPICALLY THE THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAKES A PROCEDURAL RULING AND THEN CAN BE OVERTURNED.
AND THIS, UH, I I, I DON'T WANT TO DO IT DO DIRECTLY THAT WAY.
I WANT THE BOARD TO SPEAK, I'M SORRY, I GUESS FOR SAKE OF LETTING THE WHOLE BOARD SPEAK, THAT WE PROBABLY SHOULD HEAR IT.
UM, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT OUR DISCUSSION'S ABOUT.
WE, WE CAN DO IT VERY QUICKLY.
HOWEVER, WE, WE HAVE BUSINESS IN BETWEEN, UH, BECAUSE, UH, CAN, CAN THEY WITHDRAW A CASE AT THE HEARING? PROBABLY NOT.
THEY CAN'T THEN DO THEY NEED OUR THEY DON'T, THEY, YOU CAN ACCEPT THE WITHDRAWAL, RICHARD, BUT WE DON'T NEED THAT MOTION.
AND THAT MEANS YOU CAN'T REFILE.
SO THE RECORD IS, AND I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHERE YOU'RE FINDING, FINDING THE CASE NUMBERS BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANY CASE MEMO.
UH, IT'S, I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE SAY IT.
THE, UH, DALLAS WORK, WORK DALLAS, WHENEVER YOU FILE IT DOWN ON THE FOURTH FLOOR, THEY'LL ISSUE YOU TWO NUMBERS, AN ADMINISTRATIVE NUMBER AND A PLA NUMBER.
AND SO I HAVE BOTH OF THOSE NUMBERS ON ALL OF MY LETTERS AND PLEADINGS.
WOULD YOU MAKE A STATEMENT ON THE RECORD THAT SPECIFIES WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW? UM, I'D LIKE TO WITHDRAW THE APPEAL OF PANDORA, THE DENIAL OF THE RENEWAL APPLICATION FOR ADVANCE ALL BY PANDORA'S, WHICH IS OUR CASE, PLA 0 0 8.
WE HAVE ACCEPTED THE WITHDRAWAL.
NOW WE MOVE AND I, I, I DON'T BELIEVE WE NEED A WHOLE LOT OF TIME BACK AND FORTH, BUT I THINK WE, WE SHOULD TAKE THE TIME TO HEAR IT.
CAN YOU GUYS DO THIS IN FIVE MINUTES EACH 10 THEN WHAT, WHAT DO YOU NEED REALISTICALLY? FIVE MINUTES.
IS THAT OKAY? COURT OF ORDER CHAIR? YES, MR. QUINT.
SO IF THE FINAL REVOCATION DOESN'T TAKE PLACE UNTIL TOMORROW, AND WE HAVE A HEARING NOW, WOULDN'T THAT GIVE THE APPELLANT TOTAL GROUNDS FOR APPEALING AND PROBABLY BEING SUCCESSFUL DOING WHAT? WE WE ARE THE, WE ARE THE FINAL ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION AND WE CAN'T REHEAR IT.
ON WHICH CASE ARE WHAT I SAYING WHAT THE LAW SAYS THAT THEY, IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE FOR 48 HOURS.
SO, AND WE'RE BASING THE NEXT CASE OFF OF THE FIRST ONE.
UM, IF IT'S NOT FINAL TILL TOMORROW AND WE HOLD A HEARING TODAY, WOULDN'T THAT BE GROUNDS FOR AN APPEAL?
[03:00:03]
I, I, I FRANKLY DON'T UNDERSTAND, BUT, BUT IT'S BEYOND WHAT I CAN RULE ON.UM, I THINK FRANKLY THAT, THAT IT IS FINAL RIGHT NOW, IT JUST DOESN'T, THE LAW PROBABLY PROVIDES A LITTLE BIT OF GRACE FOR, UH, UH, FOR SOMEBODY IN THIS CASE TO SHUT DOWN.
BUT, UM, THE ANSWER IS, I DON'T KNOW AND I CAN'T RULE WELL, THE CITY CLARIFY THAT FOR US.
WE'LL ASK, WOULD YOU MIND
OKAY, SO MY QUESTION WAS, IF THE RULING THAT WE DID ON THE FIRST CASE IS NOT EFFECTIVE FOR 24 HOURS AND WE BASE THE SECOND CASE CASE OFF THE FIRST ONE, WOULD THAT ALLOW THE APPELLANT INSTANT
THEY'RE GONNA SAY FINAL BACK THEN.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS, BUT, UH, I MEAN, I, I THINK
COULD THEY USE THAT BASIS THAT, FOR THAT THIS HEARING THAT THE FINAL REVOCATION IS NOT GOOD UNTIL TOMORROW? WHY DON'T WE FIND OUT YES, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THIS BOARD WOULD BE DETERMINING THEN WHETHER OR NOT THE REVOCATION WAS PROPER AND FINAL.
SO MAYBE, MAYBE HOLD THAT QUESTION UNTIL WE HEAR IT, BECAUSE I DO THINK THE SAME CRUX OF, UH, OF WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO TALK ABOUT.
I THINK YOU'RE ON, YOU'RE ON POINT.
I SUPPOSE YOU WANT TO GIVE ME THE CASE NUMBER FOR THIS NEXT CASE SO THAT I CAN CALL IT, DO WE INTO DIRECT? NO, OUR ARGUMENT WAS ALL FOR PLA 0 0 9.
THE, THE CASE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW IS THE DENIAL FOR PLATINUM.
CORRECT? I JUST NEED A CASE NUMBER FOR THAT.
THE, UH, THIS IS AN APPEAL OF THE DENIAL OF A LATE HOURS PERMIT OF A NO, IT WAS THE DENIAL OF THE DANCE HALL AND THE LATE HOURS DENIAL OF THE DANCE HALL AND THE LATE HOURS PERMIT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE JUST PROVIDED OUR ARGUMENT ON.
I KNOW, WE, WE DECIDED THAT WE WANTED THE ENTIRE BOARD TO VOTE RATHER THAN JUST ME.
AND, AND, AND ON THE RECORD, YOU GUYS MAKE YOUR, MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS BACK AND FORTH.
I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION.
SO IF YOU COULD SPECIFICALLY CITE, JUST MAKE IT EASY FOR US,
LIKE, LIKE, SO AT LEAST LET'S, LET'S NOT HAVE THESE SHIFTS PASSING AND THEN WE MADE THIS.
THIS IS, THIS IS PLA 0 0 9 IS THE APPEAL OF THE DENIAL OF THE RENEWAL OF THE DANCE HALL APPLICATIONS AND LATE HOURS PERMIT FOR THE PLATINUM CLUB LOCATED AT 24 32 THROUGH 24 62 WALNUT RIDGE STREET, DALLAS, TEXAS 7 5 2 2 9.
AND AS STATED BEFORE, I WON'T REITERATE, REITERATE, I WILL, OUR POSITION IS THAT AT THE TIME OF THE DENIAL OF THE RENEWAL, JANUARY 13TH, 2026, AT THAT TIME, THE REVOCATION OF PANDORA'S DANCE HALL LICENSE WAS NOT FINAL.
AND IT STATES IN THE LETTER FROM THE CHIEF OF POLICE THAT HE WAS DENYING THIS BECAUSE THE DANCE HALL LICENSE FOR PANDORA'S HAD BEEN REVOKED AND THEREFORE THEY COULD NOT APPLY AGAIN FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF REVOCATION.
OUR POSITION WAS, IT IS ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE THE REVOCATION BECOMES FINAL.
THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS.
[03:05:01]
AND ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY IS JUST NOT ACCURATE.I'M, I'M SIMPLY RELYING ON SECTION, THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE OF SECTION 14 DASH 11 D.
IT SAYS IT, IT'S ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE THE REVOCATION BECOMES FINAL.
SINCE IT WAS NOT FINAL, THE CHIEF WAS NOT AUTHORIZED TO DENIAL PLATINUM'S RENEWAL APPLICATION.
AND WOULD WE WOULD THEREFORE REQUEST THAT THE BOARD, UH, UM, REVERSE THE DENIAL AND GRANT RENEWAL OF THAT DANCEHALL LICENSE FOR THAT OTHER LOCATION.
AND THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE HIGHLIGHTED IN THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU PROVIDED.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT PAGE IT IS, BUT THE, THERE'S ONLY LIKE FIVE PAGES
IT'S IN IT'S UN UNDER PLA UNDER MY EVIDENCE.
SO, SO I THINK AS FAR AS OUR EVIDENCE, REALLY WHAT'S RELEVANT, AND I I'M NOT SURE THAT'S IN DISPUTE, BUT IT'S THE SAME APPLICANT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE APPLICATION, SAME APPLICANT FOR PANDORA AND FOR PLATINUM.
AND THAT IS WHY IT WAS, UH, DENIED.
AND WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS ORDINANCE, I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CONTEMPT.
OUR ORDINANCES AREN'T ALWAYS WRITTEN IN THE MOST CLEAR WAY.
UM, BUT IT SAYS WITH IT, WHEN IT'S BEEN REVOKED, IT SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE ISSUED ANY PATH OF DANCEHALL LICENSE FOR ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE, THE REPETITION
THE PROBLEM IS, IF WE HAD WAITED, WE WOULD'VE HAD TO APPROVE THAT DANCEHALL LICENSE AT THAT TIME, AND THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE A REWORK TO BE ABLE TO REVOKE IT.
NOW THAT IT HAS TO COME FINAL, THE WAY IT HAS TO BE INTERPRETED IN ORDER FOR THIS TO MAKE SENSE IS THAT IT CAN BE REVOKED AT THAT TIME.
THERE A RECOURSE FOR IT BEING SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WROTE IS TO FILE AN APPEAL.
'CAUSE WE'RE HERE TODAY AND NOW AT THIS POINT IT HAS TO COME FINAL.
SO THE REVOCATION, THE TIME STARTS FROM TODAY WHERE THEY CAN'T APPLY.
ARE THERE NOT A NUMBER OF REASONS THAT A, UH, UH, THAT THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DENIED BEYOND THE REVOCATION, THE PLATINUM DANCEHALL LICENSE SHOULD HA HAD, HAVE THE CHIEF DECIDED TO IN THEIR LETTER? ARE THERE NOT A NUMBER OF REASONS THAT IT, IT COULD HAVE BEEN DENIED? THERE PROBABLY ARE.
I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IT BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME AT THIS TIME.
MAY I, MAY I COMMENT ON ONE, ONE THING COUNSEL SAID, UH, ABOUT THE, THE STATUTES NOT BEING REALLY NECESSARILY CLEAR.
THIS IS ONE OF THE CLEAR STATUTES I'VE SEEN.
IT SAYS ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE REVOCATION BECOMES FINAL.
NOW, ONE YEAR FROM NOW, IF WE GO IN AND APPLY, I SUSPECT I KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
BUT AS FAR AS RIGHT NOW, UH, IT WAS NOT, IT WAS NOT A FINAL REVOCATION ON JANUARY 3RD.
YOU GUYS, THESE ARGUMENTS ARE ON THE RECORD.
IS, IS THERE A MOTION? WELL, BEFORE WE DO THAT, DOES ANYONE HAVE A QUESTION FOR EITHER LAWYERS? MR. QUINT, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE, YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER HERE, HERE'S A CHANCE.
I'M GONNA LISTEN FOR A MINUTE AND MAY CHIME BACK IN.
IS THERE A MOTION, UH, QUESTION.
OKAY, MR. CIA, QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY.
UM, SO I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR ARGUMENT.
YOUR ARGUMENT IS WHEN THE CHIEF OF POLICE REVOKES A LICENSE, YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING END STOP.
HOWEVER, TO BE CLEAR, IT WAS REVOKED BASED ON THE FACT THAT IT WAS THIS RELATIONSHIP, THIS AFFILIATION.
IS THAT ACCURATE? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND WHAT, AND THESE ARE COMMAS, RIGHT? SO WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE APPELLANT'S ARGUMENT THAT HE FOCUSES ON THE END OF THE SENTENCE? WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS? UH, I DON'T, THAT ARGUMENT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN.
'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, IF WE HAD NOT BEEN ABLE TO RELY ON THE ROTATION AS IT WAS FIRST ISSUED, WE WOULD'VE BEEN FORCED TO GRANT THAT DANCEHALL LICENSE.
AND NOW THAT IT HAS BECOME FINAL, WE WOULDN'T HAVE A RECOURSE BECAUSE UNDER THE REVOCATION PART OF THE ORDINANCE, IT DOESN'T GIVE US THE ABILITY TO GO BACK AND REVOKE IT BECAUSE IT HAS NOW BECOME FINAL.
SO THEN WE HAD ISSUED A ADVANCE ON LICENSE TO SOMEBODY THAT ISN'T QUALIFIED.
WOULD YOU AGREE THAT WHEN THE REVOCATION
[03:10:03]
OCCURRED FOR PANDORA, THAT WHEN THEY APPEALED, THAT WAS STAYED? YES.SO AT THAT POINT IN TIME, HOW DO YOU INTERPRET, WAS THAT A REVOCATION STILL, WAS THAT A REVOCATION THAT YOU'RE RELYING ON HERE FOR D AND 14 POINT 11 14 11 EVEN THOUGH IT WAS STATE? SO YES, I THINK WE'RE RELYING ON THAT REVOCATION AND THE FACT THAT IT IS BEING APPEALED AND BY THE TIME THE APPEALS COME AROUND, THEN THAT WILL.
ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS FROM ANYONE? ANYONE? ANYONE? RAISE YOUR, IF YOU'RE ONLINE, RAISE YOUR HAND.
UH UH YEAH, JUST MR. GONZALEZ QUESTIONS? MR. CHU QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT, DO, DO I REALLY WANT DO, OKAY, MR. SATER, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? I JUST, I, I WANNA KEEP MOVING.
MR. S SATER, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? NO.
OKAY, MS. THOMAS, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? NO.
VICE CHAIR TORRES, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS, CHAIR.
DR. JACKSON, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS.
MR. PRONE, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? I DO NOT.
OKAY, MS. SHIN, YOU STILL THERE? YEAH.
UH, AND MR. GONZALEZ AND I HAVE NO QUESTIONS.
I GOT QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT
SO YOU HEARD WHAT CITY SAID, OBVIOUSLY, I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WITH THE STAY, GOING BACK TO THE STAY, RIGHT, YOU APPEAL, YOU MADE A STAY AND IT STAYED THE REVOCATION.
IS IT YOUR POSITION THAT THERE WASN'T A REVOCATION AT THE TIME? THAT'S CORRECT.
THEY'RE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE OPERATING AS A DANCE HALL AFTER THE REVOCATION IF YOU FILE AN APPEAL SO THEY CAN STAY OPEN.
SO THERE IS NO REVOCATION AFTER THE APPEAL IS FILED AND BY THE, BY THE, BY THE STATUTE, BY THE ORDINANCE, AND BY THE CHIEF OF POLICE'S LETTER, IT BECOMES FINAL UNLESS THERE'S AN APPEAL.
AND IF THERE'S AN APPEAL, IT IS NOT FINAL.
SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, IS PANDORA STILL OPERATING TODAY? BECAUSE THE REVOCATION WASN'T FINAL UNTIL TODAY? NO, PANDORA IS NOT OPERATING BECAUSE OF A LAWSUIT.
BUT IS IT YOUR OPINION OR HOW YOU INTERPRET THIS THAT PANDORA COULD, IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE LAWSUIT, COULD THEY BE OPERATING TODAY? YES.
UP UNTIL, UP UNTIL THIS HEARING TODAY.
THAT'S, THANK YOU FOR DOING IT.
I HAVE, UH, UH, FOR THE ATTORNEY, I DO YOU BELIE AGREE THAT A DENIAL OF, UH, I'M LOOKING AT 14 DASH THREE A AND IT APPEARS TO ME THERE ARE ABOUT 10 REASONS THAT THAT A, UH, THAT THE, THE RECORD COULD HAVE DENIED THAT.
I'LL TAKE A QUICK LOOK AND MAKE SURE I'M LOOKING AT THE CORRECT SPECIFICALLY.
I'M LOOKING AT, UH, THERE'S ONE THROUGH 12 AND THEN THERE'S 14 DASH 11 D AND 14 DASH THREE C, WHICH DEALING WITH TWO DIFFERENT SITUATIONS OF DENIALS FOLLOWING REVOCATION AND DENIALS FOLLOWING.
ALRIGHT, CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION AGAIN? UM, ALL RIGHT.
WELL, MY TIME'S GONNA BE UP VERY QUICKLY.
LOOK AT, LOOK AT 14 DASH THREE.
A DENIAL OF ISSUANCE OF REMOVAL.
AND I SEE ABOUT 12 MINUS TWO RESERVE 10 WAYS THAT A DENIAL COULD BE,
[03:15:02]
COULD BE AFFECTED.RIGHT? IT'S NOT JUST THAT A REVOCATION EXISTS.
CAN I JUST, I STILL HAD SOME TIME LEFT.
IS IT, IS THAT OKAY? MAY I WELL, I, I, NO, LET'S, LET'S GET THIS RIGHT.
IS IT, DO YOU AGREE WITH THE APPELLANTS COUNCIL THAT PANDORA COULD HAVE BEEN OPEN WHILE THE APPEAL, WHILE, WHILE IT STAYED REGARD? I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY CLOSED IT FOR ANOTHER REASON.
SO WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON THAT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
WE HAVE APPEALS STAYED, SO THEY WILL WE'LL BE ABLE TO, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN OPEN TODAY.
APPRECIATE THAT'S ALL, ALL THERE A MOTION? MR. QUINT, ARE YOU TRYING TO GET MY ATTENTION? JUST, NO, SIR.
IS THERE A MOTION I PREFER NOT TO MAKE AS
UH, SO FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY HERE,
DO YOU MEAN APPROPRIATE OR IN THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARD? I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD MODIFY THIS.
IT'S WHETHER OR NOT YOU AFFIRM OR REVERSE.
WHAT WOULD, COULD YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT A MODIFICATION MAY BE? SO IF WE DID A REVOCATION, UM, THAT WAS BASED ON, I'M JUST TRYING TO WALK THROUGH THIS AND IT, AND IT MAY NOT BE SOMETHING THAT, I GUESS I'M JUST TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND AN AFFIRMATION OR A REVERSAL WITH, I DON'T KNOW, I GOTTA THINK ABOUT IT.
I I WILL MAKE THAT, UH, BUT MS. CAR, ARE YOU WRITING? PLEASE? GIVE US A MINUTE.
SO I'M IN A MOOD THAT THE PERMANENT LICENSE AND FUEL BOARD, AN APPEAL OF THE DENIAL OF A DANCE HALL LICENSE AND LATE, OUR PERMITS ARE PANDORA'S MEN'S CLUB LOCATED AT 24 32 DASH 24 62 WALNUT RIDGE STREET.
IS THAT THE WRONG? AM I YEAH, YOU GOT THE RIGHT ADDRESS, BUT IT'S PLATINUM.
LET ME REREAD IT FOR THE RECORD HERE.
NOW I FEEL HOW THE REAL JUDGES, SO I MOVE THAT THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD IN APPEAL OF THE DENIAL OF A DANCE HALL LICENSE IN LATE HOURS PERMIT FOR PLATINUM CLUB LOCATED AT, LEMME MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT ADDRESS.
24 32 DASH 24 62 WALNUT RIDGE STREET REVERSED THE DECISION OF THE POLICE OF CHI REVERSED THE DECISION OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN
[03:20:01]
ACCORDANCE WITH CHAPTER 14 AND SECTION TWO DASH 96 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY SHOW THAT THE REVOCATION OF THE DANCE HALL LICENSE AND ACCOMPANYING LATE OUR PERMIT FOR PLATINUM CLUB WAS NOT, WAS NOT A FINAL DECISION ON JANUARY 13TH, 2026.
NOW I'M GETTING, LET ME REREAD THAT LAST PART.
THE REVOCATION OF THE DANCE HALL LICENSE AND ACCOMPANYING LATE HOURS PERMIT FOR PANDORA'S MEN'S CLUB WAS NOT A FINAL DECISION ON JANUARY 13TH, 2026.
I I THINK IT SPEAKS FOR OURSELF AND OUR QUESTIONS Q AND A THAT WE HAD.
I ECHO MR. GUCCI'S THOUGHTS? ANYONE WANNA SPEAK AGAINST? THANKS.
I, THE ONLY THING I'LL SAY IS, UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE DEALING WITH A SHELL GAME HERE AND HERE'S WHY.
UM, THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE WAY THE CHIEF COULD HAVE, UH, DENIED, UH, THIS, UH, THIS APPLICATION.
UM, WE, WE ONLY DEAL WITH WHAT THE CHIEF'S LETTER PUTS IN FRONT OF US.
UH, I BELIEVE IN THE SANCTITY OF THE CODE.
UH, I ASK ALL OF YOU TO BE PRECISE.
I MEAN, IF THEY, IF THE, IF THE POLICE CHIEF, UM, MIS NOTICED, UH, WE WOULD, WE WOULD REMAND IT.
AND, UM, UH, I I, I, I THINK, UH, I WOULD HAVE TO SQUINT VERY HARD TO FIND A WAY AROUND IT.
AND I, AND I REALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S ALSO NO EVIDENCE OF BAD ACTING IN, IN THE OTHER, UH, IN, IN, UH, PLATINUM.
SO I, I, I THINK JUST ON THE FACE OF IT, BY THE PLAIN LANGUAGE, I DON'T EVEN THINK WE HAVE DISCRETION.
AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE PRECISE AND I REALLY DON'T THINK THIS IS, THIS IS SEMANTICS.
SO I'M GONNA VOTE FOR THE MOTION.
ANYONE ELSE? OKAY, MR. SAXON, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE AT THE VOTING STAGE, IS THAT CORRECT? WE ARE VOTING.
A YES VOTE, UH, REVERSES THE DECISION.
SO THE MOTION IS TO REVERSE? YEAH, I AGREE WITH THE MOTION.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE REVERSED.
UM, MS. THOMAS? IT'S A YES FOR ME.
THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.
WE HAVE RIGHT NOW A CASE FOR, AND IT'S ONE CASE ON MAY 7TH.
WELL, WE'LL, WE'LL BE WITH THAT.
THANKS FOR WORKING TOGETHER, UM, ON IT.
AND UM, I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR TIME.
UH, THE TIME IS 12:22 PM ON APRIL 16TH, 2026.
PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD IS ADJOURNED.