* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Landmark on May 4, 2026] [00:00:02] ALRIGHT, WELCOME TO THIS MEETING OF THE DALLAS LANDMARK COMMISSION. IT IS 1:02 PM ON MAY 4TH, 2026. AND I'M CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER. I'M THE CHAIR, EVELYN MONTGOMERY. OUR VICE CHAIR IS, WHAT'S YOUR NAME AGAIN? DAVID PREZI. AND WE HAVE A FORUM OF COMMISSIONERS HERE, READY TO HEAR ALL OF OUR CASES. SO LET US BEGIN BY HAVING ELAINE READ THE ROLE, ALL OF THAT DISTRICT ONE. COMMISSIONER CUMMINS. UM, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS IS IN THE BUILDING, BUT NOT IN HIS SEAT. AT THIS POINT. UH, DISTRICT TWO. COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY. PRESENT? DISTRICT THREE. COMMISSIONER FOGLEMAN. PRESENT? DISTRICT FOUR. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR. PRESENT. DISTRICT SIX. COMMISSIONER OSA. PRESENT? DISTRICT SEVEN. COMMISSIONER SMITH PRESENT. DISTRICT EIGHT. COMMISSIONER KY PRESENT? DISTRICT NINE. COMMISSIONER RENO. PRESENT? DISTRICT 11. COMMISSIONER IN TORONTO. PRESENT DISTRICT 12. COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER. PRESENT? DISTRICT 13. COMMISSIONER POSI PRESENT. DISTRICT 14. COMMISSIONER HARPER PRESENT. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON PRESENT. AND COMMISSIONER RES. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. AND I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER ROSKI IS GONNA BE READING TASK FORCE FOR US TODAY. VOICE, LETTING US KNOW WHAT OUR TASK FORCE HAS SAID. ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER PRESI, DO YOU HAVE SOME MOTIONS TO MAKE REGARDING OUR AGENDA? I SURE DO. ONCE I TURN MY LIGHT ON. UM, SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT, OH, DID YOU WANNA ASK THE ? OH, UH, YEAH, UH, WE HAVE I BELIEVE TWO RECUSALS COMMISSIONER REEVES WILL BE RECUSING FROM. FROM WHICH NUMBER? C NINE. C NINE. OKAY. OKAY. ? I WAS, I, I, I'M SORRY. D NINE. D NINE NINE OR JUST NINE. AND COMMISSIONER PER WILL BE RECUSING FROM 12. FROM 12. OKAY. SO NOBODY'S USING, SHE EVEN SAID SHE. OKAY, SO I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE IMPROVE, UH, UH, HOLD. SHE'S NOT THERE YET. OH, WELL I GOT MOTION, UH, , UM, MAKE A MOTION. WE APPROVE ITEMS NUMBER ONE THROUGH THREE BASED ON STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. SECOND. YEP. GO AHEAD. SECOND, SECOND, SECOND. I BELIEVE THE FIRST SECOND WAS FROM COMMISSIONER SMITH. UH, ANY, ANY DISCUSSION? ALRIGHT, CAN I CALL FOR THE VOTE? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YEAH. YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THAT MOTION IS PASSED. SO ALL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS WILL NOW FOLLOW THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF. OKAY. UH, SO MY NEXT MOTION IS TO REARRANGE THE AGENDA BASED ON THOSE, UH, PRESENT, UH, WITH THE FOLLOWING, UH, WE'RE GOING TO DO 11, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 6, 4, AND 12. ALRIGHT. ALL RIGHT. DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THAT? THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER REYES FOR YOUR SECOND. ANYBODY NEED TO HEAR THE NUMBERS AGAIN? WHAT ARE WE DOING COURTESY WITH YOU? WHAT? COURTESY WITH THEM? WE DID CUR HERY IS NUMBER FOUR. THEY ALL JUST HAVE NUMBERS NOW. IT'S, IT'S AUGUST NUMBER NUMBER FOUR. OKAY, SO I'LL, I'LL READ IT ONE MORE TIME. 11, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 6, 4 AND 12. ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE OUR MOTION. AND SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES, YES. YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. SO, AND, AND WE HAVE ARRANGED THOSE IN ORDER OF WHAT ISSUES HAVE THE MOST SPEAKERS AND CLEARLY NUMBER 11, ONE ON THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE LOTS OF SPEAKERS HERE FOR THAT. SO I'LL START CALLING YOU UP IN, IN THE ORDER OF, UM, WHO REGISTERED ONLINE FIRST AND THEN WE'LL, I'LL GET THE ONES THAT ARE ON THE YELLOW SHEETS SO THAT THE FIRST PERSON ON MY LIST HERE. OH YES. WE HAVE TO READ THE CASE NUMBER AND I KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE WE DO BEFORE WE DO THAT. . OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN, SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF PRESENTING DISCUSSION ITEM D 11 MAC SHANNON STATES, ALSO KNOWN AS MAC SHANNON ROAD. IT'S IN COUNCIL DISTRICT 13. THE REQUEST IS FOR A LANDMARK COMMISSION AUTHORIZED HEARING TO CONSIDER INITIATING THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION PROCEDURE TO ESTABLISH [00:05:01] A HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT FOR THE AREA KNOWN AS SHAN ESTATES. ALSO SHAN ROAD LOCATED ALONG SHAN ROAD, NORTH AND SOUTH SIDES FROM MUNFORD DRIVE TO PRESTON ROAD GENERALLY. OKAY, SO NOW I GET TO CALL THE SPEAKERS UP, RIGHT? OKAY. BUT, OKAY. HILLEL MILLER. OH, OKAY. THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO HIM. CINDY WINSTON? YEAH, HE IS THE NEXT ONE ON THE LIST. THERE. SHE, YOU CAN REALLY GO ANYWHERE YOU WANT. I JUST WANNA BE ABLE TO KEEP TRACK. SO GO AHEAD TOBY . JUST AS LONG AS I SOMEHOW KEEP IT STRAIGHT, SO, OKAY. WELCOME. IS THE LIGHT SHOWING ON THE MICROPHONE? WE NEED TO MAKE SURE IT'S ON. JUST HIT THE ON. YEAH. AND YOU NEED TO KIND OF GET CLOSE TO IT. KIND OF POINT IT TO YOUR MOUTH THERE. HANG. IS THAT GOOD? AND THE, YEAH. AND THE WAY WE DO THIS, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK TO OUR COMMISSION AND OTHER PUBLIC MEETINGS HAVE TO START WITH THEIR NAME AND THEIR ADDRESS. BUT BECAUSE THIS IS NOT WHERE WE DO QUASI-JUDICIAL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. YOU COULD LIE TO US IF YOU WANTED TO, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE NICE. SO NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. , I WILL NOT LIE TO YOU TODAY. MY NAME IS TOBY ROTHCHILD. I LIVE AT 59 15 MICHAN ROAD. UM, MY HUSBAND AVI AND I LIVE AT 59 50, UM, 15 SHAN ROAD, AND IT'S WHERE WE HAVE OWNED FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. IN THIS SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THAT WE'VE BEEN GIVEN TO GATHER OUR THOUGHTS ON THIS HISTORIC DESIGNATION, WE SUBMITTED A LETTER SIGNED BY 14 OUT OF 35 PROPERTIES ON THIS STREET, OPPOSING THIS PROPOSED DESIGNATION, UM, THAT'S 40% OF THE STREET. WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE IS HISTORY ON THIS STREET, BUT WE DO NOT BELIEVE THE APPLICANTS HAVE MET THEIR BURDEN TO SATISFY THREE OR MORE OF THE REQUIRED ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA. THE ARCHITECTURE ON MC CHAN ROAD IS NOT UNIQUE. IT IS INCONSISTENT AND THE STREET DOES NOT CONTAIN DETAILS THAT REPRESENT FOLK OR ETHNIC ART. SIMILAR RANCH STYLE HOMES LINE EVERY PARALLEL STREET IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. THE HOME AT 59 34 SHAN WAS BUILT IN 1985. IT BEARS NO ART ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE TO THE PERIOD BEING CITED. OTHERS HAVE BEEN SUBSTANTIALLY RENOVATED OR REMODELED. 59 27 HAS HAD A SECOND STORY ADDED TO IT. IT'S WRAPPED IN SIDING. UM, YOU CAN SEE IT FROM THE FRONT OF THE STREET. 58 21 IS A SYNAGOGUE WITH A LARGE MODERN TWO STORY BUILDING IN THE BACK. IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE STREET. 56 40 WAS BUILT IN 1995 AND DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE MID-CENTURY STYLE. THERE IS NO SINGLE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, EXCEPTIONAL CRAFTSMANSHIP OR INNOVATED CONSTRUCTION METHOD THAT DEFINES THE STREET. I HAVE PHOTOS OF SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF HOMES ON THE STREET, WHICH HAVE BEEN ALTERED, AND I WILL BE THAT DOCUMENT WITH YOU FOR THE RECORD. ONLY TWO HOMES ON THIS STREET WERE DESIGNED BY THE ARCHITECTURAL FIRM OF PRATT FOX AND HENDERSON. THE SUBSTANTIAL GREAT MAJORITY WERE NOT. THIS DOES NOT REPRESENT THE WORK OF A SINGLE DESIGNER OR MASTER BUILDER. THE APPLICATION ALSO STATE FAIL TO STATE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SHAN ROAD AND OTHER DISTINCTIVE BUILDINGS, SITES, OR AREAS ELIGIBLE FOR PRESERVATION. NO EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED THAT SHAN ROAD IS ELIGIBLE FOR OR HAS RECEIVED ANY OTHER LANDMARK DESIGNATION. THE CRITERIA REQUIRES THAT A PLACE CURRENTLY REPRESENT AN ERA OF HISTORY IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS AN OBSERVER TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WAS USED IN THE PAST BY PAST GENERATIONS. HAN ROAD TODAY DRIVING DOWN, IT DOES NOT CONVEY THAT THE FACT SHEET LISTS MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, A CORPORATE EXECUTIVE, AND A GENERAL REFERENCE TO EDUCATORS, CLERGY, AND OTHER PROFESSIONALS WHO LIVED ON THE STREET. IF THAT'S THE CASE, EVERY STREET ON DALLAS HAS PROFESSIONALS LIVING ON IT. THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO SHAN AND THIS DOES NOT SATISFY THE CRITERIA. THIS IS MOVING VERY FAST WITHOUT COMMUNITY BUY-IN AND WITH SUBSTANTIAL OBJECTIONS. WE HAVE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE COST BURDENS ON THE HOMEOWNERS, RESTRICTIONS ON OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS, AND AN IMPACT ON MARKETABILITY OF OUR HOMES. HISTORIC DESIGNATION IS MEANT TO BRING COMMUNITIES TOGETHER, AND THAT IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE ON SHAN ROAD. SINCE THIS PROCESS BEGAN, NEIGHBORS WHO HAVE OPPOSED THIS DESIGNATION HAVE BEEN MADE TO FEEL THAT THEY DO NOT BELONG HERE. WE ASK YOU, EXCUSE ME, THAT IS YOUR TIME. WELL, THANK YOU. THANK YOU MA'AM. AND WE WILL BE ASKING QUESTIONS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPOKEN AT THE END, AFTER WE GET THROUGH ALL OUR SPEAKERS, WHICH WE HAVE A LOT, WHERE CAN I LEAVE? UH, THE, THE STAFF, SOMEONE FROM THE STAFF WILL TAKE THAT WE'RE [00:10:01] MAKING A LANE RUN AGAIN. OKAY. SO ARE YOU NEXT MA'AM? OKAY. AND YOU ARE THERE. AND I'M HERE 50 FOR MFA ISRAEL, WHICH IS AT 56 40 SHAN. OKAY. AND AGAIN, YOUR ADDRESS, YOU JUST, THAT'S YOUR ADDRESS. YOU'RE USING 56 40 SHAN. ALL RIGHT, MA'AM, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. THANK YOU. MY NAME'S SHELLY GLASER, THE PRESIDENT OF MIK. THE ISRAEL HAS ASKED ME TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OFM THE ISRAEL. IT'S A NONPROFIT RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION THAT OWNS THE PROPERTY OF 56 40 SHAN AND HAS USED IT FOR OVER 30 YEARS. THIS WAS NEW CONSTRUCTION IN 1995, AND IT IS NOT MID-CENTURY MODERN DESIGN. IT DOES NOT FIT INTO ANY UNIQUE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. MVA ISRAEL IS ONE OF SIX PROPERTIES OWNED BY RELIGIOUS NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS ON SHAN. THEY, THERE ARE THREE ON THE EAST END, TWO IN THE MIDDLE OF BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET. AND MIKVA IS TOWARDS THE WEST END PER SECTION 2 11 0 1 65 OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF THE PROPERTY IS OWNED BY AN ORGANIZATION THAT QUALIFIES AS A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION UNDER THE TAX CODE, THE MUNICIPALITY MAY INCLUDE THE PROPERTY IN A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, ONLY IF THE ORGANIZATION AFFIRMATIVELY CONSENTS TO THE DESIGNATION OR INCLUSION. THIS SECTION SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE TIMING OF THE CONSENT OR THE NON-CONSENT, AND DOES NOT MENTION THE WORDS OUT DOUBT PER PARAGRAPH E OF THE SECTION. A RELIGIOUS NONPROFIT OWNER IS ALLOWED TO WITHDRAW CONSENT AT ANY TIME DURING THE DESIGNATION PROCESS. THE WHOLE PROCESS IS GOING VERY FAST AND MIKVA ISRAEL IS JUST LEARNING THE RULES ABOUT IT. THERE IS NO CURRENT DEADLINE FOR THE RELIGIOUS NONPROFITS TO CONSENT OR NOT CONSENT. MIKVA ISRAEL WANTS ITS VOICE COUNTED SO IT EXPRESS, IT OPPOSES THIS PROPOSAL THAT DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIRED CRITERIA WILL LOWER THE PROPERTY VALUES AND NEGATIVELY AFFECT MIKVA ISRAEL. DR. DUNN HAS WRITTEN TO SAY THAT THE HAS PROVIDED AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT AND OPPOSES THE PROPOSED DESIGNATION. THE PROPERTY THEREFORE REMAINS NON-CONSENTING AND OUTSIDE THE PROPOSED DISTRICT BOUNDARY. THE VOICE OF OPPOSITION OF THE RELIGIOUS NONPROFITS SHOULD, SHOULD NOT GIVE THEM NO VOICE. ALL THE NONPROFITS VOICE OF OPPOSITION NEEDS TO BE ON THE RECORD AND HEARD AND WAIVED BY THIS COMMISSION. AND THEIR VOTE SHOULD BE COUNTED BY REMOVING THE NONPROFITS PREMATURELY. IT CREATES THE FALSE PERCEPTION THAT THE STREET IS FOR THIS DESIGNATION WHEN 40% IS AGAINST IT, MOST SIGNIFICANTLY WITH THE NONPROFITS OUTSIDE THE PROPOSED DISTRICT BOUNDARY, THE BOUNDARY LACKS LOGIC. YOU WOULD HAVE ONE STREET WITH THREE PRO NONPROFIT PROPERTIES AT ONE END, THREE NONPROFIT PROPERTIES IN THE MIDDLE, ONE TOWARDS THE WEST END, ALL CARVED OUT OF THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION. CARVING OUT 17% OF A SMALL STREET OF 35 HOMES PROVES LOSS OF INTEGRITY ACROSS THE DISTRICT. THERE WILL BE NO COHESIVE UNIFIED IDENTITY WITH 17% OF THE PROPERTIES THAT CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT. ARCHITECTURALLY, WHILE OTHER HOMEOWNERS ARE BURDENED WITH THE PRESERVATION CONTROLS, THE CARVE OUTS CREATE GAPS AND DISCONTINUITY THAT UNDERMINE THE WHOLE PROPOSAL FOR A SINGULAR DISTRICT. FOR ALL THESE REASONS, M**K, THE ISRAEL ASKS THAT THE LANDMARK COMMISSIONERS NOT INITIATE THIS DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THAT WAS VERY WELL SPOKEN. I I WILL NOTE THAT A A LOT OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS DON'T BECOME HISTORIC DISTRICTS TILL THEY HAVE LOST SOME OF THE PROPERTIES THAT WOULD'VE BEEN CONTRIBUTING, AND THAT'S WHEN THEY DECIDE THEY WANNA BECOME A HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO MOST OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS CONTAIN WHAT WE CALL NON-CONTRIBUTING ONES THAT ARE FROM A DIFFERENT ERA OR STYLE AND DON'T, UM, SUPPORT THE COHERENT STREETSCAPE, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO SAVE WHAT IS THERE. SO THAT IS PROBABLY WHAT IS ON THE MINDS OF PEOPLE WHEN THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS. OKAY. WHO'S NEXT? UM, I HAVE, UH, TYRONE POWELL. IS TYRONE HERE? I MET HIM AT THE MEETING. HE'S ON THE PHONE. OKAY. . ALL RIGHTY, GO AHEAD. IS HE UP THERE? OKAY. HELLO, MR. POWELL. WE DO NEED TO SEE YOU. IT'S A STATE LAW TO MAKE SURE IT'S YOU AND NOT SOMEONE PRETENDING TO BE YOU. IS HE HAVING A DIFFICULTY WITH THAT? OKAY. CAN YOU SEE ME NOW? YEAH. I'M SORRY. HELLO, MR. POWELL. NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN. HI. GOOD. WE SAW YOU AT THE EARLIER MEETING THAT WE HAD. UM, ALRIGHT. SO IT IS YOUR TURN TO SPEAK. UH, YOU HAVE TO START WITH YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS AND THEN, UH, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO TELL US YOUR VIEWS ON THE INITIATION. I AM TYRONE POWELL. 58 31 MAX NEIGHBORHOODS SEEK HISTORIC DESIGNATIONS TO PROTECT PROPERTY VALUES, PREVENT INCOMPATIBLE NEW DEVELOPMENT, AND MAINTAIN THE UNIQUE AESTHETIC CHARACTER OF THE COMMUNITY. TO BEGIN WITH, MAX CHAN IS THE FIRST AND ONLY AFRICAN AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOOD BUILT BY AFRICAN AMERICANS. MAX CHAN PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN IN MY FAMILY FOR 65 YEARS. [00:15:01] FOR MOST OF ITS EXISTENCE, ALL OF THE RESIDENTS WERE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN DESCENT. MAX CHAN WROTE AS AN HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD AND A VITAL PART OF THE ALPHA COMMUNITY, AN HISTORIC FRIEDMANS TOWN CELEBRATING A SQUI CENTENNIAL ANNIVERSARY THAT IS PROVIDED ENHANCED PROTECTION BY DALLAS 2.0. TO ACQUIRE PROPERTY ON MACHAN, MOST BLACK HOMEOWNERS WERE REQUIRED TO BUY ONE ACRE UNDEVELOPED LOTS, PAY OVER 50% OF THE COST TO CONSTRUCT THEIR HOMES AND PAY A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE COST TO BRING WATER AND SEWER. 10 TIMES THE COST OF THE TYPICAL TAP FEE HOMEOWNERS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY. IN NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS, MACHAN RESIDENTS BANDED TOGETHER TO PAY THAT COST. DESPITE THESE BARRIERS, MACHAN ESTATES BECAME HOME TO BLACK PROFESSIONALS, PREACHERS, ENTREPRENEURS, AND CORPORATE EXECUTIVES. MY FATHER, DR. DUDLEY VINCENT POWELL. AS PRESIDENT OF THE DALLAS BRANCH OF THE NAACP AND A CIVIL RIGHTS ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT LYNDON JOHNSON SUCCESSFULLY RECRUITED BLACK PROFESSIONALS TO MAKE MACHAN THEIR HOME AND FORM THE FIRST BLACK FOUNDED CLINIC DEDICATED TO WOMEN'S MATERNAL HEALTH AND TER AND FERTILITY IN THE SOUTH. SINCE MACHAN STATES WAS NOT BUILT BY A DEVELOPER CONSTRUCTING TRACK HOMES, IN ORDER FOR THESE BLACK PIONEERS TO BUILD THEIR HOMES, REQUIRED EACH OWNER TO RETAIN ITS OWN DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION TEAM CONSISTING OF AN INTERIOR DESIGNER, AN ARCHITECT, AND A CONSTRUCTION AND LANDSCAPING COMPANY. THIS OWNER DRIVEN HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS NOT ONLY ATYPICAL FOR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT IS UNHEARD OF IN MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS. DUE TO THIS HISTORIC DEVELOPMENT, MAX CHAN FEATURES ONE STORY BRICK HOMES RANGING IN SIZE FROM 3000 TO 4,500 SQUARE FEET. THEY'RE THE LARGEST HOMES FOUND IN AFRICAN-AMERICAN, TEXAS NEIGHBORHOODS. AFTER 15 YEARS OF LOBBYING FROM AFRICAN AMERICAN RESIDENTS, THE CITY EVENTUALLY PAVED THE ENTIRE STREET. MAX ESTATE'S STRONG HISTORIC DESIGNATION APPLICATION MEETS AT LEAST SEVEN OF THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION'S. CORE BENCHMARKS. SECOND HISTORICAL DESIGNATION, STABILIZE AND IMPROVE HOUSING APPRECIATION. ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS HISTORIC COMMISSION, HISTORIC DESIGNATIONS GENERALLY ENHANCE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY VALUES AND DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS SUCH AS OURS BY 20 TO 35% PER DECADE COMPARED TO NON-DESIGNATED AREAS. THIS IS PARTICULARLY POWERFUL FOR AFRICAN AMERICAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN IN AFRICAN AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE HOMES REPRESENT NEARLY 50% OF THE NET WORTH OF BLACK FAMILIES. THIRD, WE DO NOT WANT OUR HISTORY ERASED OR FORGOTTEN. WE WANT MORE THAN A PLAQUE ON THE SIDE OF A ROAD OR IN A GARDEN. IN CONCLUSION, MAX HANNAH STATE'S HISTORICAL DESIGNATION CEMENTS THE LEGACY OF THIS SPECIAL 150 YEAR OLD ALPHA COMMUNITY PROTECTS PROPERTY VALUES FOR HOMEOWNERS, AND IN THE PROCESS GROWS 50% OF THE NET WORTH OF BLACK HOMEOWNERS AND PREVENTS INCOMPATIBLE NEW DEVELOPMENT WHILE MAINTAINING THE UNIQUE ACIDIC CHARACTER OF THIS COMMUNITY. IT'S TIME, IT'S PAST TIME. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING AND THANK YOU, SIR. AND BECAUSE THE CONNECTION WAS A BIT DIFFICULT, COULD WE REQUEST YOU EMAIL THE TEXT OF THAT IN, SINCE APPARENTLY YOU HAD IT WRITTEN? I GOT WHAT YOU SAID, BUT IT WAS, IT WASN'T EASY. I HAD TO TRY AND SOME OF US WON'T TRY. THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR CONNECTION, SO PLEASE JUST EMAIL THAT TO YOU. HAVE MY EMAIL. I'M EVELYN REMEMBER YOU EMAILED ME BEFORE. YES. I'LL, I'LL EMAIL IT TO YOU. AND, AND, AND PHYLLIS AND RHONDA. YEAH. AND RHONDA. ELAINE. HER NAME'S ELAINE, BUT HER NAME'S PHYLLIS, BUT SHE LIKES ELAINE . OKAY. OKAY. SO I HAVE, UM, ALISA FLETCHER HERE. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. HELLO. YEAH. TALK RIGHT INTO THE MIC WHERE THE PEOPLE AT HOME MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. I'M LISA FLETCHER. MY ADDRESS IS 56 15 SHAN ROAD AND MY FAMILY HAS BEEN THERE SINCE 1976. SO I'M GONNA START WITH THE LEGACY OF THE LEGACY OF SHAN ROAD. MOUNT SKA MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH AND SHAN ROAD ARE THE TWO FINAL TWO PHYSICAL LEGACIES OF THE ALPHA TEXAS FRIEDMAN SETTLEMENT. IN 18. IN THE 1870S, GEORGE AND ZA SHAN, FORMERLY ENSLAVED INDIVIDUALS, PURCHASED THE ACREAGE AND BECAME ANCHOR LANDOWNERS. THE 1900 SAM'S MAP CREWS OF STATUS THAT FEW BLACK FAMILIES IN THE SOUTH COULD CLAIM 150 YEARS OF CONTINUOUS LAND OWNERSHIP. THIS ROAD IS THE LAST RESIDENTIAL CORNERSTONE OF A THRIVING COMMUNITY THAT REFUSED TO BE ERASED. AND I'M GONNA GO ON TO OUR ARCHITECTURAL EXCELLENCE. IN THE 1950S AND SIXTIES, MANCELL HIN TRANSFORMED THIS LEGACY INTO A VISION OF, OF EXCELLENCE. AT A TIME WHEN SEGREGATION RESTRICTED BLACK RESIDENTS TO SMALLER HOUSING, WITH THE AVERAGE HOME BEING NO LARGER THAN 1300 SQUARE FEET, MANSEL DEVELOPED SPRAWLING HALF ACRE TO ONE ACRE BECAUSE BANK FINANCING WAS UNAVAILABLE. THESE RESIDENTS INVESTED THEIR ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS TO BUILD THEIR DREAM HOMES. SOME EVEN COMMISSIONED WORLD CLASS DESIGNS FROM [00:20:01] THE LEGENDARY, LEGENDARY FIRM OF PRATT BOX AND HENDERSON SHAN ROAD BECAME THE PREMIER NORTH DALLAS BASTION FOR THE BLACK ELITE. IT WAS HOME TO HISTORIC COLLECTIVE TRAILBLAZERS, MOST NOTABLY DOCTORS, DUDLEY V PAUL, ROBERT PRINCE, AND MYRON WATKINS. THESE WERE THE PIONEERING OBSTRUCT OB OB OBS OBS, I CAN'T SAY THE WORD, I'M SORRY, WHO BROKE THE COLOR BARRIER AT ST. PAUL PRESBYTERIAN PARKLAND AND MEDICAL ARTS HOSPITALS. THEY WERE THE DOCTORS WHO CARED FOR OUR CITY WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHT TO PRACTICE IN ITS GREATEST INSTITUTIONS. THEY WERE JOINED BY AN ENCLAVE OF DENTIST ATTORNEYS, ENGINEERS, AND CORPORATE LEADERS WHO FORMED THE VERY BEDROCK OF THE NORTH DALLAS BLACK MIDDLE CLASS. SHAN ROAD IS MORE THAN A THOROUGH FARE. IT'S A MONUMENT TO BLACK PROFESSIONAL ACHIEVEMENT AND LAND OWNERSHIP. WE ASK FOR THIS DESIGNATION TO ENSURE THAT THIS IRREPLACEABLE CHAPTER OF DALLAS HISTORY IS PROTECTED. LET US HONOR THE SHAN FAMILY AND THE GIANTS WHO WALK THIS ROAD BY MAKING ITS STATUS PERMANENT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MA'AM. NEXT ON MY LIST IS RABBI SHAYA FOX. OKAY. , WE'RE A LONG WAY FROM MICHAN ROAD, AREN'T WE? ? IT TAKES A WHILE TO GET HERE. OKAY. WELL, I HAVE A WHOLE STACK OF OTHER PEOPLE HERE. ELIZABETH BRODEN. WELCOME MA'AM. AND START PLEASE WITH YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS. YES MA'AM. MY NAME IS ELIZABETH BRODEN. I RESIDE AT 5 7 4 0 MICHAN ROAD. AND I'M KEEN TO ASK YOU ALL TO CONSIDER THE BROADER CONTEXT. I'M STANDING HERE TODAY IN 2026 BECAUSE OF THE WORK OF EVERYONE THAT HAS LIVED ON SHAN ROAD PRIOR TO ME. I RECOGNIZE THAT THESE ARE THE SEEDS THAT WERE ROOTED BY THE ALPHA COMMUNITY AND THAT WE ARE THE REMAINING MEMBERS OF THAT ALPHA COMMUNITY. I ALSO REALIZED THAT IN HAVING TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE CHALLENGES THAT MY GRANDPARENTS WENT THROUGH TO LIVE ON THIS ROAD, TO BUILD THESE HOMES, TO BUILD COMMUNITY, MY GRANDMOTHER'S BEST FRIEND ENDED UP LIVING NEXT DOOR. AND THEY SPOKE EVERY DAY FOR YEARS UNTIL SHE PASSED AWAY. SHE BUYS SPICES FROM A NEIGHBOR DOWN THE STREET. MY OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS WERE BIRTHED FROM DOCTORS THAT LIVED ON THIS ROAD WHEN I WAS A YOUTH. I, I HAD TO DO A PROJECT AND I TOOK A PICTURE OF THE HOUSE, AND THEN MY CLASSMATES, OTHER AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDENTS, LOOKED AT THAT PICTURE AND SAID, WOW, YOU'RE RICH. AND I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANT BECAUSE IT WAS A REGULAR HOY. BUT NOW I STAND HERE IN THE WEALTH OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS POURED INTO ME BY THOSE SHAN RESIDENTS. I STAND IN HERE AS A LITTLE GIRL WHO WENT DOWN THE STREET PRIOR TO GOING BACK TO SCHOOL, COLLECTING $5 FROM ALL OF THE NEIGHBORS. AND I, I SAT IN THOSE LIVING ROOMS THAT WERE SUCKING. AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT EVERY HOUSE, BUT I KNOW THE PRINT. THEY HAVE A SUCKING LIVING ROOM IN THE WORLD. THEY HAVE A SUCKING LIVING ROOM. AND FROM THOSE MARVEL FLOORS, I SAW A FUTURE FOR MYSELF. THAT FUTURE TOOK ME TO LAW SCHOOL. IT PROPELLED ME THROUGH BUSINESS SCHOOL. AND I'M BACK HERE IN DALLAS AT THIS MOMENT BECAUSE WHEN I BECAME ILL, I KNEW I HAD A HOME TO COME TO WHERE I COULD WALK OUT THE DOOR AND BREATHE THE FRESH AIR OF ALL MY ANCESTORS THAT WANTED ME TO DO BETTER, LIVE BETTER, AND TREAT EVERYONE BETTER WITH KINDNESS. WE EXEMPLIFY THAT AS HAN ROAD RESIDENTS. AND FOR THOSE REASONS AND ALL THE FORMATION REASONS, WHICH I'M SURE YOU'VE BEEN PAPERED WITH, I STAND HERE ASKING FOR OUR APPLICATION TO MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MA'AM. UM, I BELIEVE SOME PEOPLE HAVE JUST JOINED US WHO I HAD ALREADY CALLED EARLIER. WOULD PERHAPS ONE OF YOU BE RABBI FOX? OKAY. WELCOME SIR. UH, WE START, EACH SPEAKER MUST START BY GIVING US THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS, SHYA FOX. I AM, UM, THE CEO OF DATA. WE HAVE THREE PROPERTIES ON SHAN ROAD. ALL RIGHT. SO I STAND HERE TODAY WITH, WITH GREAT RESPECT FOR THE, THE HISTORY. IT IS, UH, THE MORE AND MORE WE DISCUSS THIS, UH, PROCESS, THE MORE AND MORE WE APPRECIATE ALL THE HISTORY AND, UM, AND AS, AS A, YOU KNOW, THE CEO OF THE ORGANIZATION OWNING THREE OF THE PROPERTIES. WE, UM, WE HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR THE, FOR THE HISTORY. AND, UM, WE, [00:25:01] OUR CONCERN IS, IS, UM, ON A FEW FRONTS REGARDING MAKING IT INTO A HISTORICAL DISTRICT AND GIVING IT THAT SAMPLE OF APPROVAL. UM, AND WHAT WE, WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST IS, UH, WE WOULD OFFER OUR PROPERTY FOR THIS. WE HAVE THE CORNER, TWO CORNER, LOTS OF SHAN AND PRESTON AND OUR, OUR SORT OF COUNTER PROPOSALS. A WAY OF REALLY RECOGNIZING THE GREAT HISTORY FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE IN A WAY THAT'S, THAT'LL ACTUALLY HONOR THE HISTORY EVEN IN A MUCH GREATER WAY IS, IS TO PUT UP A MONUMENT AT THE CORNER OF PRESTON. THERE'S PROBABLY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT GO BY THAT STREET EVERY DAY AND PASSED BY THAT CORNER. AND, UM, WE WOULD EVEN, YOU KNOW, OFFER TO, UH, OUR PROPERTY FOR THAT. AND, UM, WE FEEL LIKE THAT WOULD BE A WAY TO REALLY GIVE THE PROPER RESPECT TO THE HISTORY. UM, AND WE JUST FEEL THAT THAT WOULD, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE SHOWING THAT WE'RE, WE'RE VERY RESPECTFUL TO THE HISTORY. WE JUST THINK BECAUSE OF A LOT OF THE REASONS THAT WE'VE LISTED IN DIFFERENT LETTERS AND THAT YOU'LL HAVE ACCESS TO THAT. UM, WE DON'T FEEL LIKE THE MAKING IT HISTORIC DISTRICT IS THE, THE PROPER WAY TO HONOR THEIR HISTORY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND VERY GENEROUS TO OFFER FOR A MONUMENT. WE'LL SEE WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE SAYS. WE'LL CHECK YOU OFF. OKAY. UH, IS THE MAN WITH YOU, IS THAT MR. MUELLER? OKAY. WE ALSO HAD TO SKIP YOU. I, NOW I SEE WHY YOU WERE BOTH DRIVING. YOU WERE PROBABLY TOGETHER OBVIOUSLY, SO I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE, THE TIME TO SIT DOWN AND, AND TALK ABOUT IT. OH, REMEMBER WE NEED YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS. SURE. HILLEL MUELLER. H-I-L-L-E-L MUELLER, M-U-L-L-E-R. I LIVE ON 57 31 SHAN ROAD. OKAY. OKAY. UM, YEAH, LIKE WE'VE BEEN HEARING AND, AND TALKING, THE HISTORY OF THE BLOCK IS TREMENDOUS. DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. AND IT WAS DAWN RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLOCK MEANS, AND NEIGHBORS NEEDS AND BLOCK. UM, LIKE WE MENTIONED THE LETTER, THE REASON WE OPPOSE IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE DISAGREE WITH THE HISTORY. THE HISTORY IS AMAZING AND WE WANNA PRESERVE IT. LIKE ROBERT FOX MENTIONED, MAYBE A MONUMENT. THERE'S AN OPEN PROPERTY ON THE BLOCK. I MENTIONED THE IDEA OF MAYBE PUTTING IN THAT PROPERTY, MAYBE THE CITY BUYING AND PUT LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF BENCHES AND, YOU KNOW, HISTORY ABOUT IT. BUT THE CRITERIA MENTIONED IN THE LANDMARK WAS THAT SOMEHOW THE HOUSES LEFT THE HISTORY ON IT WAS TWO PROPERTIES, UH, BY AN ARCHITECT FIRM. UM, PAT HENDERSON, I, MYSELF HAVE ONE OF THOSE TWO HOUSES AND IT'S BEEN REMODELED SINCE. SO THE, THE URGENT CRITERIA OF SOMEHOW THAT THE HOUSES REFLECT THAT TIME PERIOD IS REALLY JUST, THERE'S SO MANY HOUSES ON THE BUCK THAT HAVE BEEN REMODELED, JUST DOESN'T REFLECT IT EVEN NOW. SO, AND THEN YOU COMBINE IT WITH THAT MANY, A LOT OF DATA SHOWS THAT THE PROPERTY VALUE WILL GO DOWN. AND WE'VE ALSO SEEN THAT WE NOT COULD BE CALLED INSURANCE, OUR INSURANCE AGENTS. AND THEY ALL SAID THAT IF THE HISTORIC LANDMARK, YOUR RATES WILL GO UP TREMENDOUSLY AND THEY'RE NOT EVEN SURE THEY'LL COVER IT. BUT TODAY'S INSURANCE RATES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I PAY 6,000, 7,000 A MONTH, UH, A YEAR IN HOME INSURANCE COULD DOUBLE 12,000 A YEAR FOR A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEY'RE VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. SO LIKE WE'VE SAID, WE VERY MUCH RESPECT AND IT'S AMAZING WHAT THE BLOCK HAS BEEN AND LET'S PRESERVE THAT. LET US, LET US PRESERVE IT, BUT JUST NOT MOVE THIS WAY, WHICH MAKES IT A BIG BURDEN ON THE HOMEOWNERS, BOTH ON, ON PRICES, THE VALUE OF THE HOME, AND ALSO IN TERMS OF INSURANCE AND OTHER THINGS. LET'S PRESERVE IT EITHER A MONUMENT OR SOME OTHER WAY. IT'S NOT MAKING IT A, A LANDMARK. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND SINCE WE'VE HAD A COUPLE PEOPLE ADDRESS THE IDEA OF WHETHER LAND MARKING MAKES YOUR HOUSE WHILE YOU GO UP OR MAKES IT GO DOWN, I, I'D LIKE STAFF TO BE THINKING ABOUT LATER IF THEY COULD SHARE SOME INFORMATION WITH US. I KNOW STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION ON OUR RESALE VALUES. I I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY RESEARCH ON THE INSURANCE OTHER THAN MINE ISN'T THAT HIGH. I WOULD'VE BEEN IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT I'VE LIVED THERE 27 YEARS, SO HOW DO I KNOW IF IT'S HIGH? I GUESS I COULD BE, WE'LL FIND IT. OKAY. IS CINDY WINSTON READY TO GO NOW? OKAY, SO YOU ARE NOT THERE. OKAY, NOW I STILL HAVE SOME MORE YELLOW SLIPS. OKAY. I HAVE THE REVEREND REVEREND BRODEN. HELLO SIR. HOW Y'ALL DOING TODAY? MY NAME IS REVEREND WILLIS BRODEN SENIOR. I LIVE [00:30:01] AT 57 40 MAX SHAN ROAD. OKAY, GO AHEAD, SIR. UM, THEY'RE MAKING OUR POINT FOR US. THE TWO RABBI, THEY WANNA PUT UP A MONUMENT FOR THE ROAD, FOR THE STREET. WHY WOULD WE PUT UP A MONUMENT WHEN THE STREET IS NOT DESIGNATED AS HISTORICAL? THEY'RE MAKING THAT POINT FOR US. NOW, I WANNA TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT MAC CHEN ROAD. MAC CHEN ROAD. THE STREET BELONGED TO SLAVES. NOW THIS IS THE LAST PIECE OF THAT IN THAT ENTIRE AREA, STILL OWNED BY BLACKS. WHY WOULD NOT IT BE HISTORICAL? WE HAVE GONE THROUGH SO MUCH, WE CAN'T HAVE A LITTLE PIECE OF STREET TO CALL OUR OWN TO SAY, YES, MY MOTHER, MY GRANDMOTHER, MY GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, THEY PICKED COTTON ON THIS LAND. THEY BUILT ON THIS LAND. IT BELONGS TO US. IT SHOULD BE HISTORICAL BECAUSE IT IS THE LAST PIECE OF OUR BLACK HISTORY OF SLAVERY THAT WE HAVE. WE DON'T HAVE NOTHING ELSE. NOW PEOPLE COME IN AND THEY WANNA MOVE US OUT AND THEY GOING TO SAY, THIS IS NOT A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE. LOOK AT IT BLACK AND WHITE. WE ARE NOT MIXED UP. THIS IS A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE. YOU HAVE SOMEONE, THEY WANNA BUILD A HOUSE ON THOSE TWO, THOSE TWO LOTS, BUT THEY WANNA BUILD A HOUSE AND, AND IT'S GONNA HOLD 5, 6, 7 PEOPLE, FAMILIES. BUT THEY WANNA MAKE IT TO WHERE A BLACK MAN CAN'T EVEN LIVE IN THE HOUSE. THEY WANNA MAKE IT ALL FOR, FOR THE JEWISH RACE. AND I DON'T HAVE NO QUALMS ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS IS A BLACK STREET THAT WAS BUILT FOR BLACK PEOPLE. NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME A BLACK MAN CAN'T LIVE ON THAT STREET. WHAT IS THAT? EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON NOW, YOU, WE, WE, WE TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON IN THE GOVERNMENT, VOTING RIGHTS WERE BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM US. EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM US, DON'T TAKE OUR STREET FROM US. GIVE US THIS. THANK YOU, SIR. AND I BET YOUR SERMONS ARE REALLY MOVING . WOW. ALRIGHTY. THAT'S EVERYBODY ON THAT LIST. OKAY. I HAVE A W WILLIAMS. WILLIAMS. OH, APPARENTLY IT'S AN M AND I THOUGHT IT WAS A W. ANYWAY, MA'AM, WOULD YOU TELL US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS AND THEN WE'LL ALL KNOW YOUR NAME? I'M MARGARET WILLIAMS. I'M MORE THAN 90 YEARS OLD. I LIVE AT 9 7 3 5 7 3 2 HAN ROAD, DALLAS, TEXAS. AND I'M VERY HONORED TO BE LIVING AT RESIDENCE. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. WE ARE VERY, I'M VERY HAPPY TO SPEAK TO THE TO YOU TODAY. I'M ONE OF THE ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THE STREET WE'RE NORTH GALLS WAS SEGREGATED. WE DIDN'T JUST FIND A PLACE TO LIVE. WE CLAIMED A PLACE TO BUILD. WE REPRESENT FAMILY LIKE THE DENS, THE WATKINS, THE PRINCESS, THE SNOW WILLIAMS. TOGETHER WE SHARE NEARLY 600 YEARS OF COMBINED HISTORY IN THIS SINGLE BLOCK. WE ARE THE LIVING EVIDENCE OF WHAT IT TOOK TO ANCHOR A COMMUNITY IN FAR NORTH DALLAS. WE MOVED, WE MOVED TO A LAND THAT WAS THE FIRST PURCHASED BY GEORGE AND DI HAN IN THE 1870 LAND THAT HAD BEEN IN THEIR FAMILY SINCE THE, SINCE ALPHA TEXAS, JUST A FREEMAN SETTLEMENT. BUT WHEN WE ARRIVED IN THE 1950S AND SIXTIES, IT WASN'T EASY TO CONTAINER AGAIN, BECAUSE OF OUR RACE. WE COULDN'T GET TRADITIONAL BANK LOANS BECAUSE WE WERE ALWAYS REFUSED. THEREFORE, WE HAD TO USE OUR LIFE'S SAVINGS. THERE WERE NO CITY SERVICES HERE. WE STARTED WITH SEPTIC TANKS AND OUR OWN. SHE WILL, WE HAD TO PETITION AND WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT SOME MORE. WE HAD TO INSIST THAT THE CITY BRING PLUMBING TO THAT AREA AS A BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE TO OUR DOORS. [00:35:01] WE DIDN'T JUST BUY THESE HOMES, WE FOUGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO MAKE THEM LIVABLE. MANTEL HAN'S VISION WAS TO, TO PROVIDE US WITH A, WITH LARGE BEAUTIFUL LOTS THAT WERE ONE HALF ACRES OR A FULL ACRE SO WE COULD HAVE THE SPACE AND DIGNITY THAT WE WERE DENIED EVERYWHERE ELSE WE WENT. WE SPENT DECADES, DECADES AS THE STEWARDS OF THE SOIL TRANSFORMING IT FROM A RULE SETTLEMENT TO A PREMIER NEIGHBORHOOD. WE REPRESENT OVER 60 YEARS OF HOME OWNERSHIP. AND 150 YEARS OF CONTINUOUS BLACK LAND OWNERSHIP. EVERY PIPELINE AND EVERY BRICK PLACE WAS AN INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE FOR OUR FAMILIES. WE STAYED, WE BUILT AND WE PRESERVED THROUGH EVERY OBSTACLE, THE CITY AND THE AREA AND THE AREA PUT IN OUR WAY. THE ERA PUT IN OUR WAY. COMMISSIONERS, OUR HISTORY IS WRITTEN IN THE VERY INFRASTRUCTURE OF THIS ROLE. EXCUSE ME, MA'AM, THAT IS YOUR TIME. I THINK SHE'S ABOUT DONE SO WE CAN THANK YOU. I I BELIEVE SHE WAS AT THE END NOW, I GUESS. WELL, THANK YOU MA'AM. AND WE WILL HAVE QUESTIONS FOR PEOPLE AFTER THEY SPEAK. ALL RIGHT. DR. TERRY DAVIS. SO, OKAY. I ONLY HAVE TWO LEFT. YOU AND YVONNE PRINCE. SO YOU WANT OKAY. YOU COULD HAVE NUMBERED THEM THEN I WOULD GET THIS RIGHT. . HI, MY NAME IS YVONNE PRINCE AND I'M AT 57 0 8 HAN ROAD AND I'VE RESIDED THERE WHERE MY FAMILY HAS FOR 56 YEARS AND I SUPPORT A, HIS HISTORICAL DESIGNATION. AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED, MACHAN ROAD IS ONE OF THE LAST PARTS OF A FREENESS SETTLEMENT. THE LAND CAN NOW BE, THAT'S NOW MACHAN CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE MAC HANS, WHO REACHED SLAVES AND DEVELOP THE LAND FOR BLACK PROFESSIONALS. AT A TIME IN THE 1950S WHEN BLACKS HAD DIFFICULTY BUYING PROPERTY IN THE NORTH DALLAS AREA, THE PRESTON HOLLOW ADVOCATE DESCRIBED MAX SHAN AS THE MOST UNIQUE NEIGHBORHOOD IN DALLAS BECAUSE ONE, THE LATE JESSE ARNOLDO OF MAX SHAN, WHEN HE WAS 12 YEARS OLD, WAS, WAS EMPLOYED AS A COTTON PICKER BY THE MAX SHINS. AND TWO, THE STREET BECAME AN AFFLUENT BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS IN DALLAS DID NOT EXIST. THE CURRENTLY THE STREET IS RACIALLY DIVERSIFIED. INITIALLY THE STREET HAD 32 SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING HOMES THAT CONSISTED OF DOCTORS, LAWYERS, EDUCATORS, DENTISTS, ENGINEERS AND ENTREPRENEURS WHO HELP TO INTEGRATE INSTITUTIONS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF DALLAS IS SERVE HISTORICAL DESIGNATION IS NEEDED TO PRESERVE NUMEROUS HISTORY OF, TO RATHER TO PRESERVE THE HISTORY OF MACHIN AT A TIME WHEN NUMEROUS DEVELOPERS HAVE DESTROYED MANY BLACK COMMUNITIES SUCH AS BONTON, YOUNG PICKETT, AND LITTLE EGYPT TO NAME A FEW SUCH DESTRUCTION CAN BE COMPARED WITH LOSING LONG, CHERISHED ITEMS THAT ARE IRREPLACEABLE IN A HOUSE FIRE. MACHAN HAS BEEN A SITE WHERE EDUCATIONAL TOUR BUSES HAVE VISITED TO WITNESS THE HISTORY I HAVE DESCRIBED. AND MUCH LIKE WITH SOUTH BOULEVARD AND SWISS AVENUE, A HISTORIC DESIGNATION CAN SAVE THE SHAN LEGACY BY ONE REGULATING DEVELOPMENT TO LEGALLY PROTECTING THE STREET. THREE, ENSURING THAT THE IDENTITY OF THE STREET IS MAINTAINED FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. FOUR, SUPPORTING FUNDING AND TAX CREDITS TO HELP MAINTAIN PROPERTIES INSTEAD OF DESTROYING THEM. AND FIVE, ENCOURAGING REVITALIZATION OVER DEMOLITION. I END BY ASKING THAT THE LAND COMMISSIONER'S [00:40:02] GRANT APPROVAL FOR, EXCUSE ME, THAT IS YOUR TIME. ARE YOU FINISHED MADAM? DONE. ALRIGHT, THAT LEAVES YOU DR. TERRY DAVIS. GOOD AFTERNOON. I AM DR. TERRY DAVIS. I'M AN DESCENDANT. I ONE OF THE ORIGINAL OWNERS AT 58 28 HAN ROAD. I'M ALSO A RE RESEARCHER BY PROFESSION. OUR RESEARCH, UH, AFRICAN AMERICAN ENCLAVES THROUGHOUT THE US THAT HAVE BEEN ERASED THAT CONSEQUENTLY A LITTLE PLAQUE HAS BEEN PLACED. UM, BUT I'M, I'M HERE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT MACHAN. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HISTORY, BUT I WANNA UNPACK HISTORY, UH, AND, AND JUXTAPOSE IT AGAINST WHAT THE MACHAN FAMILY FACED WHEN THEY PURCHASED THEIR LAND. I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE DON'T GLOSS OVER WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN BLACK PEOPLE MEX HANS BOUGHT THE, UH, THE PROPERTY IN 1870. AS WE TALKED ABOUT CONTINUOUSLY, UH, THE MEX SHAN FAMILY PURCHASED THE LAND. IT WAS DURING RECONSTRUCTION. LET ME REMIND YOU, THAT WAS ONLY FIVE YEARS OUTSIDE OF, UH, BEING EMANCIPATED THAT HOLDS VALUE. I'M SORRY IF IT MAY BE A BURDEN, BUT WE'LL TALK ABOUT BLACK CODES AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT JIM CROW. THOSE ARE BURDENS. AND THESE ARE THE, THE PEOPLE THAT TOILED THE LAND. THEY BUILT A COMMUNITY. THEY PICKED COTTON, THEY HAD THE WHEREWITHAL AS WE MOVE FORWARD TO JIM CROW IN THE 1950S TO PARCEL THE LAND OUT TO OTHER BLACK DOCTORS. NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT, UH, BLACK DOCTORS QUICKLY. THEY COULDN'T GO TO THE, THE PREDOMINANTLY WHITE COLLEGES. THEY WENT TO HBCU TO HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITY BECAUSE WHY WE COULDN'T GET INTO THOSE FOUR. THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HISTORY. THESE ARE NOT JUST BLACK DOCTORS, THEY WERE OVERCOMERS ACHIEVEMENTS. EXCELLENCE. THE STREET BECAME A WHO'S WHO OF BLACK EXCELLENCE. AND IT CANNOT BE REPLACED WITH A PLAQUE OR TO USE ONE OF MY NEIGHBOR'S YARD. IT MAY BE BARE DOWN, BUT, AND, AND ERECT A PARK. NO, IT DESERVES SO MUCH MORE. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME I HAVE LEFT, BUT I'M JUST GONNA QUICKLY RUN THROUGH A FEW KEY THINGS. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ERASURE AND WE TALK ABOUT HISTORY, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ACKNOWLEDGE THE PAST. AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE JUXTAPOSE IT AGAINST THE HISTORY OF THIS UNITED STATES AND THE TREATMENT OF BLACK PEOPLE. OUR HISTORY MATTERS. OUR HISTORY IS POWERFUL. DON'T GO ON THE NEGATIVE SOUNDBITES THAT YOU SEE IN THE NEWS. WE ARE OVERCOMERS, WE ARE EXCELLENT, WE ARE ACHIEVERS. WE MATTER. OUR HISTORY MATTERS. MAC SHAN IS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT. ALL OF MY NEIGHBORS, I USED TO COME TO MAC SHAN WROTE EVERY SUMMER, EVERY SUMMER. THIS IS MY FAMILY ON ME. POWERFUL STREET OF POWERFUL BLACK PEOPLE, MY RELATIVES, MY UNCLE WELLS, UH, UNCLE WAYMAN WELLS, AND MY AUNT MARGARET WELLS POWERFUL. THEY LAID THE FOUNDATION FOR ME. AND I AM WHO I AM TODAY BECAUSE OF THIS. CAN'T REPLACE THEM WITH A PLAQUE. I'M SO SORRY. I WANNA SAY ONE THING ELSE AND I'M GONNA CLOSE BECAUSE MY, MY PROFESSION AND I, I RESEARCH AND IT'S DONE. THAT IS YOUR TIME. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU EVERYBODY WHO CAME FORWARD TO OFFER THEIR VIEWS. UH, WE MISSIONERS MAY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. IS STAFF READY TO ANSWER MY FIRST QUESTION WITH ABOUT THE, UM, THE REALITY OF WHAT IT DOES TO PROPERTY VALUES BEING HISTORIC? WE'VE HEARD BOTH SIDES. SO LET'S LOOK AT SOME EVIDENCE BASED KNOWLEDGE. THERE. THERE IS PLENTY OF RESEARCH AND EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT PROPERTY VALUES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AT THE VERY LEAST ARE STABILIZED AND IN MOST CASES INCREASE. AND YOU CAN SEE OUR, YOU CAN SEE THAT IN OUR MOST CURRENT STUDY, THE, THE ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY THAT WE OURSELVES HAVE DONE. UM, THERE IS NO RESEARCH THAT I AM AWARE OF AT ALL. THAT, THAT, THAT EVEN, UM, TALKS ABOUT INSURANCE, UH, PREMIUMS, UM, IT, IT, INSURANCE PREMIUMS WOULD NORMALLY JUST BE ASSOCIATED WITH WHAT TYPE OF STRUCTURE. IT IS NOT WITH, UM, IT BEING IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THERE WOULD BE NO RELATION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND I, I, THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT, BUT I KNOW ABOUT MY HOUSE 27 YEARS AGO AND IT'S PROBABLY FIVE TIMES OF VALUE WHAT IT WAS. BUT THEN WE DID GET RID OF SOME OF THE CRIME WAS PROBABLY A LOT OF THAT. BUT, UM, IT, IT, IT'S HARD TO PREDICT WHAT WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE YOU COME IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT SOME PEOPLE DO LIKE TO BUY IN A PLACE WHERE THEY KNOW THEIR NEIGHBORS [00:45:01] THAT THEY SEE NOW WILL ALWAYS BE THE KIND OF BUILDING THAT'S NEXT TO THEM. BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY SEEN SOME OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THEY KNOCKED DOWN THE HOUSE AND PUT UP SOMETHING THAT LOOMS OVER THE NEIGHBOR. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THAT. SO, COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ANY OF OUR SPEAKERS? I'M OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION OF STAFF. FIRST OF ALL, IN OUR BRIEFING, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL PROPERTIES, SIX OR SO PROPERTIES THAT WERE OWNED BY RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS. YES. AND CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE, UM, THE SITUATIONS SAID THEY WOULD BE, UH, REMOVED FROM THE DISTRICT, IS THAT CORRECT? RIGHT. THEY, I HAD ALREADY RECEIVED A LETTER FROM MS. WINSTON STATING THAT THEY WANTED TO OPT OUT. AND BY LAW WE ARE REQUIRED TO ALLOW RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS TO OPT OUT. SO THE CURRENT BOUNDARY LINES DO NOT INCLUDE THOSE SIX ORGANIZATIONS. OKAY. I I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE, UM, UM, THE RABBI, I GUESS SOMEBODY WHO REPRESENTS YOUR COMMUNITY, WHOEVER WANTS TO COME UP, TRY TO HELP. ARE YOU AWARE THAT THOSE SIX PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN OPTED OUT OF THE DISTRICT? SO MY LAST, UM, CONVERSATION, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY HAVE NOT OPTED OUT. I THINK THEY OPPOSE IT, BUT THEY HAVE NOT YET OPTED OUT OFFICIALLY. THEY HAVE OPTED OUT. WELL, THE STAFF HAS MADE NOTE THAT THEY HAVE, THEY'VE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DISTRICT, SPOKE TO MRS. DUNN. WE SAID THAT, THAT WE NOT OFFICIALLY OPTED OUT. WE JUST OPPOSED. SO COME TO THE MICROPHONE. WE HAVE COMMISSIONERS AT HALL. CAN'T HEAR YOU. MS. WINSTON, UH, REPRESENTS JUST THE MIKVA. SO SHE, SHE WROTE IN THAT THE MVA OPTED OUT AND SHE ASSUMED THAT THE OTHER ONES WOULD OPT OUT. THEN WE, SHE WROTE A LETTER YESTERDAY AND SAYING THAT SHE SEES THERE'S NO PROCEDURE FOR OPTOUT, BUT SHE OPPOSES FOR M THE ISRAEL M THE ISRAEL OPPOSES. AND IF YOU DON'T AFFIRMATIVELY CONSENT, AND I WOULD AGREE, UH, FOR THE LAW, THEN YOU'RE NOT AGREEING TO BE IN THE, IN, IN THE, UH, FOUNDRY, BE IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. THE OTHER NONPROFITS HAVE OPPOSED, UH, SO THERE'S NO OPT OUT. THEY HAVE OPPOSED, UH, THIS, UH, BEING IN THIS HISTORICAL DISTRICT AND THEY HAVE NOT CONSENTED YET TO BE IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. WELL, MY MY QUESTION THEN IS IF THOSE PROPERTIES OWNED BY RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS ARE REMOVED FROM THE DISTRICT, WILL YOU ALL STILL HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE DISTRICT? YES, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, UM, THE, UH, IT'S, IT'S NOW IT'S NOT A SINGULAR DISTRICT ANYMORE. NOW YOU'RE CARVING OUT ON ONE BLOCK, YOU'RE TAKING THREE FROM THE TOP TWO IN THE MIDDLE, ONE TOWARDS THE WEST END, 17% THAT CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT. AND THE OTHERS, YOU KNOW, NOW HAVE THESE, UH, PRESERVATION CONTROLS. SO WE DO THINK THAT THAT MAKES THE BOUNDARY NOT LOGICAL. AND THEN WE ALSO THINK THAT, UM, IT, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR ANY OF THE NONPROFITS PROPERTIES AS WELL. THEY WANT TO ULTIMATELY SELL TO A, A BUILDER OR SOMEONE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN THESE PRESERVATION CONTROLS. THEY NO LONGER CAN DO THAT UNDER, UNDER THIS. SO IT AFFECTS THEM. UH, OKAY, LEMME ASK THAT AGAIN. HANG ON, ANDERSON. LEMME ASK STAFF AGAIN. MR. ANDERSON, HANG ON A SECOND. SHE JUST STATED THAT EVEN IF THE RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS OPT OUT OF INCLUSION IN THIS PRESERVATION DISTRICT, THEY WILL HAVE CONTROLS ON WHAT CAN BE BUILT THERE IN THE FUTURE. UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. STAFF, PLEASE LET US KNOW. YOU ARE CORRECT. UM, ONCE YOU OPT OUT, IF YOU'RE NOT IN THE DISTRICT, YOU, THERE WOULD BE NO CONTROLS OVER THOSE PROPERTIES. IT WOULD ONLY BE OVER THE PROPERTIES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. OKAY. AND WE HAVE FOUND A WAY TO MAKE A CONTINUOUS RIGHT BOUNDARY AROUND THE DISTRICT WITH THOSE PROPERTIES NOT INCLUDED. CORRECT. SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK AGAIN, IF YOU ARE REMOVED FROM THE DISTRICT AND THERE ARE NO GUIDELINES OR REGULATIONS ON THESE SIX PROPERTIES OWNED BY RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS, WILL YOU STILL BE, UH, OPPOSED TO THE DISTRICT? OH, M ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT TO BE IN, IS NOT CONSENT TO A HISTORICAL DISTRICT BEING APPLIED TO IT. I I'LL LET THE OTHER, UM, THE OTHER, UH, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT IF YOU'RE OPTED OUT OF THE DISTRICT, THERE'S NO RULES AND REGULATIONS ON THE SIX RELIGIOUS PROPERTIES. YOU STILL WILL BE OPPOSED TO THE DESIGNATION. WELL BELIEVES THAT IT, IT HURTS THE WHOLE STREET TO DO THIS. UM, IT'S NOT GONNA HURT ANYONE. YOU'RE GONNA BE REMOVED FROM THE DISTRICT. THEY ARE, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE THEIR NEIGHBORS THEN CANNOT SELL TO OTHERS. WANT TO, WELL LET THOSE NEIGHBORS TALK FOR THEMSELVES. AND THAT THEN, AND THEN THAT AFFECTS THE PROPERTY VALUES OF THE WHOLE STREET. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. CAN THOSE PEOPLE TALK FOR THEMSELVES? YES. THEY'RE TAKING THE RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS OUT OF THE DISTRICT. CORRECT. RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY REGULATIONS ON YOUR PROPERTY. CORRECT. SO IT IT DOES, THE, THE DOES OPPOSES, UM, IT, IT OPPOSES THIS. IT DOESN'T, IT FEELS LIKE IT'S KIND OF LIKE GERRYMANDERING. SO THEY DON'T FIT [00:50:01] INTO THE, THE VOTE. THEY'RE ON THE STREET. THIS STREET IS VERY MULTINATIONAL MULTIVERSE. IT IS NOT JUST A BLACK STREET. IT BELONGS TO EVERYBODY ON THE STREET. AND SO IT, IT FEELS LIKE THEY'RE, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T CONSENT TO THIS, TO UH, TO THE, WHAT'S THE OVERLAY THAT'S BEING PROPOSED. THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL YOU. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT CONSENTING TO IT. YES, WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT. AND MR. ANDERSON, YES, ANYONE CAN TELL US THEY OPPOSE THE INSTITUTION OF A HISTORIC DISTRICT IF THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY GONNA BE IN IT. OBVIOUSLY THEIR OPPOSITION MAY NOT BE AS, UM, AS KEY TO OUR DECISION. BUT ANYONE CAN LET US KNOW. THEY DON'T WANNA LIVE NEAR A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE A HISTORIC DISTRICT. PEOPLE CAN DO THAT. BUT WE, I THINK HE WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT DO YOU THINK IT HURTS YOU IF YOUR PROPERTY IS OPTED OUT 100% AND IT DOESN'T APPLY TO WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO? 'CAUSE WE THINK IT HURTS THE REST OF THE PROPERTIES, WHICH HURTS OUR PROPERTY VALUES. THAT'S WHY. OKAY. UM, AND WE'RE ABOUT TO DO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED IT DOESN'T TEND TO HURT PROPERTY VALUES. EVERYBODY THINKS THAT THIS IS NO SWISS AVENUE. THIS, THIS IS JUST A REGULAR STREET WHEN YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED, WHEN THE OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS AREN'T ALLOWED TO SELL, UH, TO, TO BUILDERS AND THEY'RE SELLING NOT FOR LOT VALUE, THEY'RE GONNA SELL FOR THE VALUE OF THEIR HOME. ONLY THAT IS GONNA DEPRESS THE VALUES OF THE STREET. ALRIGHT, MA'AM, I I THINK THAT, UM, PERHAPS YOU HAVEN'T TOURED MANY OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS. WE HAVE HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT SWISS AVENUE YES. HAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE HOUSES. BUT WE HAVE OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHICH HAVE VERY INEXPENSIVE HOUSES, VERY SMALL HOUSES, UM, EVEN SHOTGUN HOUSES. SO WE HAVE A RANGE OF THEM AND THEY'RE ALL LANDMARKED BASED ON THEIR HISTORICAL VALUES. SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE WITH THAT. BUT I BELIEVE MR. RE, COMMISSIONER ROSKI HAS A FURTHER QUESTION. SOMEONE, WELL, I HAVE A, A COUPLE OF POINTS, UH, ONE TODAY. UM, ALL WE'RE DOING IS VOTING TO AUTHORIZE WHETHER A HEARING MOVES FORWARD. I I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION TODAY IS REALLY NEW AND REALLY OUGHT TO BE SAVED FOR A HEARING WHEN EVERYBODY HAS CONCRETE FACTS AND EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHATEVER THEY BELIEVE IS THE TRUTH. UM, HEARING ABOUT ANECDOTAL, YOU KNOW, INSURANCE RATES OR VALUE GOING DOWN IS NOT RELEVANT TO ME. AND I'M NOT SURE IT'S RELEVANT TO ANYBODY ON THIS COMMISSION WITHOUT ABSOLUTE UM, EVIDENCE. AND QUITE FRANKLY, AS A MEMBER OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, I TAKE OFFENSE TO MS. GLASER'S POSITION AND THE RABBI'S POSITION. I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE INCLUSIVE AND UNDERSTAND THAT WHETHER WE'RE HISPANIC, JEWISH, BLACK, OR ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS, WE NEED TO SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER AND, AND ENSURE THAT A STREET LIKE SHAN IS PRESERVED, UM, WITH A HISTORICAL OVERLAY DISTRICT, IF THAT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE FOLKS WANT. AND I THINK THAT THE ABILITY OF THE JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO OPT OUT, UM, IT'S REALLY OF NO HARM TO THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WHATSOEVER. THIS IS A, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET ALONG ON THE STREET. UM, I WELL YOU, YOU DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING TODAY IS NOT GETTING ALONG. UM, WELL, YOU KNOW, I I YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE 40% THAT HAVE SIGNED AGAINST THIS. THEY'RE NOT JUST BASED ON INACCURATE AND UNTRUTHFUL INFORMATION. WELL, YOU'RE COUNTING THE SIX PROPERTIES IN THERE. RIGHT? BUT THERE ARE OTHERS THAT ARE ASIANS. THERE ARE, THERE ARE, UM, MIDDLE EASTERN, THERE ARE WHITE, THAT'S FINE. BUT IF THEY'RE SIGNING IT BASED ON BEING BULLIED BY A NEIGHBOR WHO SAYS, SIGN THIS DOCUMENT BECAUSE YOUR HOUSE VALUES ARE GOING TO DECREASE OR YOUR INSURANCE PREMIUMS ARE GOING TO INCREASE, THOSE ARE, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S BEEN BULLIED. OKAY. I, I BELIEVE I, ALRIGHT, HANG ON, HANG ON. WE'RE ONLY GONNA STOP. WE'RE GONNA SPEAK ONE AT A TIME. I BELIEVE THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS IS NOT TODAY WHEN ALL WE'RE DOING IS AUTHORIZING MOVING FORWARD WITH A HEARING. I JUST WANNA MAKE, OKAY, HANG ON, HANG ON. COMMISSIONER ROSKI, I APPRECIATE YOUR VALUABLE INPUT AND I, I CAN SEE WHY YOU'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS AND THOROUGHLY UNDERSTAND, BUT WE DO HAVE TO REMEMBER TO TRY TO SPEAK WITH EVERYONE WITH RESPECT. AND I THINK WE'RE PERHAPS RILING PEOPLE UP TO WHERE THEY DON'T WANNA SPEAK WITH RESPECT PERHAPS. BUT I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE GROUP TRYING TO MAINTAIN THEIR HISTORY IS NOT PERSONALLY A MEMBER. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT MAINTAINING THEIR HISTORY. I CARE ABOUT MAINTAINING HISTORICALLY BLACK COMMUNITIES IN THIS CITY, BUT I'M NOT BLACK, I'M JUST A HISTORIAN. SO THAT'S, UM, REALLY THAT NEW AND MORE DIFFERENT VARIETY OF PEOPLE LIVE THERE DOESN'T CHANGE THE HISTORICAL ROOTS OF THE OF IT. SO AS A HISTORIAN, PLEASE DON'T ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT HISTORY. YOU WILL UPSET ME AND I'LL NOT BE RESPECTFUL. GO AHEAD, MA'AM. I I JUST WANNA CLARIFY, BECAUSE I WAS THE NEIGHBOR WHO COLLECTED THESE SIGNATURES. [00:55:01] I DID NOT STRONG ARM ANYONE INTO SIGNING. I DID NOT GIVE ANY INCORRECT FACTUAL INFORMATION. I WENT TO NEIGHBORS WHO I KNOW ON THE STREET, MANY NEIGHBORS ON THE STREET. THERE WAS A LETTER LEFT IN MY MAILBOX BY A NEIGHBOR WHO WAS UPSET WITH THIS SITUATION AND ASKED IF ANYONE ELSE FELT STRONGLY OR THE SAME WAY. AND I WENT AND KNOCKED ON THEIR DOOR. I WENT TO MY, ACROSS THE STREET NEIGHBOR, I WENT ALL OVER THE BLOCK. I DIDN'T STRONG ARM, I DIDN'T COERCE. I SAID, DID YOU RECEIVE THE PACKET ABOUT THE PROPOSED DESIGNATION FOR SHAN ROAD? HOW DO YOU FEEL? ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST IT? I DID NOT GIVE IN FACTUAL. I, I DID NOT GIVE FALSE INFORMATION. UM, AND IT'S A DIVERSE GROUP. IT'S NOT JUST, I DON'T WANNA KEEP DOING THIS, BUT IT'S NOT JUST THE JEWISH RESIDENTS OF THE STREET. IT'S A VERY DIVERSE GROUP OF RESIDENTS. AND I WILL POINT OUT THAT 17 OUT OF THE 35 HOMES ON THE STREET ARE NOT AFRICAN-AMERICAN OWNED. SO IT IS NO LONGER ONLY AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN STREET. ALRIGHT. I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO THANK YOU. SPEAK BACK TO WHAT COMMISSIONER ROZANSKI SAID, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA DO BACK AND FORTH ACCUSATIONS THAT WILL NOT GET US ANYWHERE EXCEPT UPSET. SO DO COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OF SPEAKERS REGARDING THEIR VIEWPOINTS ON THIS, MR. POSI? SURE. SO THIS IS FROM THE, UM, I GUESS I'LL SAY THE PRO GROUP OF, OF, UH, FOR SHAN ROAD. IF SOMEBODY, I DUNNO, MAYBE IT'S LISA OR DR. YOUNG. UH, DO YOU WANT TO, UH, COME UP AND TALK ABOUT WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR WANTING TO CREATE THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT? SO CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? I HEARD LISA? YES. I, UM, WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR WANTING TO CREATE THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT? I KNOW, UM, YOUR GROUP CAME TO THE CITY AND REQUESTED THIS, BUT WHAT WAS, WHY DID, WHY DO YOU WANT WE ALL WANNA DO THIS? WELL, ACTUALLY, UM, WE MET WITH, UM, SO HISTORICALLY MY PARENTS, UM, SOME OF THE PARENTS OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE, SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE, THIS HAS KIND OF BEEN IN THE PLANS FOR YEARS AND IT JUST GOT PUSHED BACK AND PUSHED BACK AND PUSHED BACK. AND THEN FINALLY WE TALKED TO, UM, MAYOR PROTE GAY WILLIS, AND SHE ENCOURAGED US TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THIS. UM, SHE REALLY DID SAY THAT THIS IS A HISTORIC STREET I'VE KNOWN ABOUT MACHAN FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, AND THESE GUYS SHOULD REALLY GO FORWARD WITH THE REQUEST FOR A HISTORIC DESIGNATION. SO WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD TO BE DESIGNATED, UH, HIS, THE ERASURE? I, I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ERASURE OF OUR HISTORY AND IN JUST RESEARCHING SHAN AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVED ON SHAN FOR YEARS, I WENT A STEP FURTHER AND I FOUND OUT ABOUT ALPHA TEXAS, WHICH WAS THE FREEDMAN SETTLEMENT ON THE SAM'S 1900 MAP. 19, YOU KNOW, 19, THE YEAR 1900 MAP. I ACTUALLY FOUND THE SHAN NAMES WRITTEN NEXT TO THE ALPHA POST OFFICE. AND TO REALIZE THAT IN MY MIND, I'M THINKING 60 YEARS OF HISTORY, I FOUND OUT WE HAVE 150 YEARS OF HISTORY AND IT'S JUST ADMIRABLE THAT WE WERE ABLE TO RETAIN THE LAND FROM 1870 UNTIL NOW. AND THIS IS WHAT'S LEFT OF A FREEDMAN SETTLEMENT. AND SO I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE RETAIN THIS HISTORY AND OUR HISTORY NOT BE ERASED. THANK YOU. I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION FOR STAFF. SO IF STAFF COULD EXPLAIN THE PROCESS, WHERE WE ARE NOW AND WHERE WE ARE GOING SO EVERYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS HEARING MEANS TODAY AND ALSO WHAT WE'VE DONE TO DATE AS WELL. OKAY. WELL, TODAY WHAT HAS BEEN DONE SO FAR IS, WELL, WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY IS GATHERING INFORMATION TO FIND OUT IF WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION WITH RESPECT TO THE HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO MOVE FORWARD TO CONSIDER HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR THE AREA. OUR NEXT MEETING WOULD BE JUNE 1ST TO ACTUALLY POSSIBLY INITIATE THE AREA. NOW WE'VE MET THE THREE SUPPORTING LANDMARK COMMISSIONERS. WE'VE ALREADY HAD ONE COMMUNITY MEETING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. OVER 25 PEOPLE WERE IN ATTENDANCE, SIX PERSONALLY, LIKE PHYSICALLY, AND THEN SIX PEOPLE WERE ONLINE ALSO. WE'VE HAD A SECOND MEETING, RACHEL AND I ATTENDED, UH, LAST WEEK WITH THOSE WHO FELT AS IF THEY SOMEHOW MISSED THE FIRST MEETING. AND SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE WAS HEARD. SO LAST WEEK WE HAD A SECOND MEETING WHERE MS. ROTHSCHILD, I THINK MS. [01:00:01] WINSTON AND I KNOW RABBI MUELLER WERE THERE TO KIND TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND EXPLAIN WHAT THE PERSPECTIVE WAS AND WHAT THE VALUE CULTURALLY AND HISTORICALLY IN QUESTION WAS THAT NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED, DISCUSSED AND POSSIBLY MOVED FORWARD ON. SO ALSO THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE MET, I THINK IN MARCH. IT COULD HAVE BEEN, YEAH, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MARCH, BUT THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE MET IN MARCH. UH, MS. FLETCHER AND OTHER RESIDENTS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD ATTENDED. THEY SHARED WITH US THE HISTORY OF THE STREET AND, UH, ITS CONTRIBUTION TO THE CITY OF DALLAS. AND THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE VOTED ON IT AND OUT OF 10 CRITERIA IDENTIFIED SEVEN THAT THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE FELT THE AREA MEANT. SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION PRIOR TO TODAY STARTING BACK IN, LIKE I SAID, MARCH AND I THINK THE COMMUNITY MIGHT HAVE COME TO ME IN FEBRUARY LEADING US HERE TO TODAY. AND SO WHAT DO WE HAVE AFTER THIS MEETING TODAY? OKAY, SO AFTER THIS MEETING, WE HAVE ANOTHER COMMUNITY MEETING ON MAY THE SEVENTH. MAY THE 19TH, SO TUESDAY, MAY THE 19TH AT 6:00 PM AND EVERYONE ON THE STREET HAS RECEIVED A LETTER IDENTIFYING THAT WE WILL HAVE A MEETING THAT DAY THAT, AND AT THIS POINT I THINK EVERYONE KNOWS, BUT THAT WE WILL MEET AS A COMMUNITY. THE THREE LANDMARK COMMISSIONERS WILL BE IN ATTENDANCE. THEY WILL BE THERE TO DISCUSS WHAT THE CONCERNS ARE THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP TODAY, ANY NEW CONCERNS THAT ARE BROUGHT UP BETWEEN THEN AND NOW. UH, WHAT WE HAVE TO DO ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCES, BRING BACK THE LETTER OF SUPPORT ALONG WITH A LIST OF CONCERNS. OKAY. AND HOW WE ADDRESS THOSE OR HOW THEY CAN BE ADDRESSED. AND THEN ON JUNE 1ST, BRINGING BACK ALL OF THAT INFORMATION, WE WILL ASK THE LANDMARK COMMISSION AT THAT TIME TO APPROVE OUR VOTE RATHER ON WHETHER OR NOT THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION PROCESS SHOULD BE INITIATED. SHOULD IT BE APPROVED ON JUNE 1ST. WE START THE PRE DESIGNATION MORATORIUM, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE USED TO NOW FOR QUEEN CITY, BUT WE WOULD START THE PRE DESIGNATION MORATORIUM FOR MAC SHAN ROAD AT THAT TIME. WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING AS A DESIGNATION COMMITTEE IS HELPING THE COMMUNITY PREPARE THEIR DESIGNATION REPORT DURING THAT TWO YEAR PRE DESIGNATION MORATORIUM, WHICH WILL CONSIST OF THE NOMINATION FORM AND THE ORDINANCE, WHICH WILL CONTAIN THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA. ONCE DO I NEED TO KEEP GOING? ? I CAN KEEP GOING IF YOU WANT ME TO. ONCE WE PREPARE THE DESIGNATION REPORT, WE WOULD BRING THAT BACK BEFORE THE LANDMARK COMMISSION, AND AT THAT TIME ASK FOR AN AUTHORIZED HEARING AND ASK WHAT THE LANDMARK COMMISSION REC, UH, RECOMMENDED AUTHORIZED HEARING, WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY BE TAKEN BEFORE CITY COUNCIL. SO IT WOULD GO FROM THE LANDMARK COMMISSION TO THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION. WE WOULD ASK THEM FOR A RECOMMENDATION FOR AN AUTHORIZED HEARING, AND IF THEY APPROVE, IT WOULD GO TO CITY COUNCIL FOR FINAL APPROVAL. AND IF, IF I MIGHT, UM, THIS, THIS MAY MEETING ON MAY 19TH WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY ON BOTH SIDES TO SIT DOWN IN A ROOM LESS FORMALLY THAN THIS AND WE CAN TALK IT OUT, RIGHT. THE THREE COMMISSIONERS WHO, WHO MOVED TO INITIATE THAT, WE WILL BE HERE. IT AS A MATTER OF RECORD, IT'S MYSELF, EVELYN MONTGOMERY. IT IS DAVID POSI, AND IT IS COMMISSIONER SCOTTY SMITH OVER THERE. SO WE WILL BE THERE TO, TO SPEAK IN A LESS FORMAL MANNER WHEN WE CAN LISTEN TO YOUR CONCERNS. I DO HOPE THAT ANYONE, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING WE'VE SAID HERE, I HOPE IT CAUSES SOME PEOPLE TO LOOK A LITTLE BIT DEEPER INTO WHAT HISTORIC, UM, DESIGNATION MEANS FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, WHAT, WHAT YOU HAVE TO, HOW HISTORIC YOU HAVE TO BE. PERHAPS LOOK AT SOME OF OUR OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS LIKE 10TH STREET AND YOU'LL SEE IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE LARGE WEALTHY HOUSES. IT'S ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD MORE THAN THE ARCHITECTURE. SOMETIMES IT'S ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURE, BUT A LOT OF TIMES IT'S ABOUT THE HISTORY AND LEGACY AND THE ARCHITECTURE JUST REFLECTS THAT AS OPPOSED TO BEING AN ARCHITECTURAL MASTERPIECE. BUT YOU DO HAVE TWO OF THOSE . SO, SO WE, WE WOULD WELCOME THE CHANCE TO MEET ALL OF YOU CLOSER UP TO WHERE I CAN ACTUALLY SEE YOU. I CAN BARELY TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EVERYBODY AT THIS DISTANCE. I NEED GLASSES. BUT WE CAN TALK TO YOU ON THAT EVENING. RIGHT. AND PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT OUR ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY. IT DOES GET INTO, UM, HOW, HOW HISTORIC PRESERVATION DOES AFFECT NEIGHBOR NEIGHBORHOODS. AND IT'S, UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY POSITIVE. ALRIGHT, SO THAT ENDS OUR PUBLIC MEETING. WE DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS TODAY, DO WE? OR WHAT ACTION ARE WE LOOKING TO TAKE? THIS IS THE FIRST HUMAN RIGHT. THIS IS JUST FIRST PUBLIC HEARING. [01:05:01] THIS IS INFORMATION, RIGHT? SO NO, NO ACTIONS TODAY. AND WE, WE HAVE LISTENED TO EVERYBODY AND THEIR CONCERNS. I WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR SINCE IT SOUNDED LIKE WE WERE LEANING TOWARDS VALUING SOME OPINIONS MORE THAN OTHERS, THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE. IT'S JUST THAT WE HAVE DONE THIS A FEW TIMES, AND THOSE OF US ON THE DESIGNATION COMMITTEE ARE REALLY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE SOMEPLACE, UM, GOOD ENOUGH WHEN ONE, SAY TO BE A HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS ARE SOMETIMES NOT UNDERSTANDING THE DETAILS OF THAT, JUST AS I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DETAILS OF YOUR JOB. WHATEVER YOUR JOB IS, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT. . OKAY, SO SOMEONE, SO WE WOULD LIKE TO SHARE EDUCATION BACK AND FORTH. ALL RIGHT? AND, UH, SO THAT'S IT. WE, WE THANK EVERYONE FOR COMING TODAY. HOPE YOU DIDN'T FIND IT TOO UNPLEASANT, AND WE WILL BE BACK, PRESUMABLY ON JUNE 1ST, HAVING OUR JUNE MEETING AND DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE AND THEN TAKING ACTION ON MOVING IT FORWARD. NOT, I DID THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING. YES. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU WANT ME TO THANK THEM? THANK YOU AGAIN. AND WES AGAIN. WE, THE THREE OF US WOULD WELCOME TO SEE YOU AT THAT, AT THAT MEETING ON THE 19TH. YES. THE DEFINITE ONE IS NUMBER FIVE. THAT WOULD BE YES. FLAVORS RETURN TO THEIR SEATS. COMMISSIONERS . ALLISON , WE ARE DOING NUMBER FIVE STRAIGHT LANE DECK. YES. LOOKING AT, OKAY, WE READY? NO, WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR, OKAY, NOW WE'RE TURNING TO D FIVE. UH, SO IF THE STAFF WILL PLEASE READ THAT IN. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF. DISCUSSION ITEM D FIVE. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT TEN TWO SIXTY STREET LANE. IT'S IN COUNCIL DISTRICT 13. IT'S THE JACKSON RESIDENCE HISTORIC DISTRICT CASE NUMBER CO A DASH 26 DASH 0 0 0 1 3 8. THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE, HAVING RANDOM LER CUT LIMESTONE WIND WALLS, AND POST ALONG THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE WITH A NEW METAL FENCE, NEW HEIGHT, EIGHT FEET, SIX INCHES. STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE, HAVING RANDOM ASHLER CUT LIMESTONE WING WALLS AND POST ALONG THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE WITH A NEW METAL FENCE. NEW HEIGHT, EIGHT FEET, SIX INCHES BE APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS SUBMITTED APRIL 14TH, 2026 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT THE NEW LIMESTONE WING, WALLS AND POST MUST MATCH THE EXISTING ASHLER CUT LIMESTONE IN COLOR, TEXTURE, PATTERN, BOND, AND MODULE SIZE. THAT REPLACEMENT METAL FENCING MATCHED THE EXISTING IN OPENNESS PERCENTAGE, A MINIMUM OF 80%. THAT FENCE POSTS BE TOPPED WITH CASTSTONE CAPS MATCHING THE EXISTING IN COLOR TEXTURE PROFILE AND DIMENSIONS THAT MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF ALL FENCE COMPONENTS BE LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO EIGHT FEET, SIX INCHES. AND THAT STATUARY DOG PHONS [01:10:01] AT THE MAIN GATE BE RETAINED AND OR RESTORED. IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION. SECTION 3.6, SUBSECTION A UNDER FENCES, THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBSECTION G SIX C ROMAN ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT AND OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE, HAVING RANDOM ASHLER CUT LIMESTONE WING WALLS AND POSTS ALONG THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE WITH A NEW METAL FENCE, NEW HEIGHT OF EIGHT FEET, SIX INCHES BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE. DESIGN DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE OR MATCH THE EXISTING FENCE. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. WE DO HAVE A COUPLE SPEAKERS SIGNED UP AND I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THIS IS, THIS CASE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING THIS IS A SINGLE HOUSE AND IT RECENTLY BECAME LANDMARKED AT THE, UM, REQUEST OF THE LADY WHO LIVED THERE A LONG TIME. SHE PAID FOR IT, SHE MOVED IT FORWARD IN THE PROCESS AND SHE IS NOW DECEASED AND IT HAS SOLD TO SOMEONE ELSE. SO, UM, THE RESTRICTIONS ON THIS ONE WERE WORKED OUT WITH HER AND MAY SEEM IN SOME CASES A LITTLE STRICT BECAUSE, BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTED AND SHE GOT TO DO THAT WHILE SHE OWNED IT IF SHE WANTED TO. THAT IS WHERE WE ARE. SO OUR TWO SPEAKERS, LET ME CALL RON HOLMES FIRST. WELL, HE'S NOT HERE. OH, THERE, HE'S, HELLO, MR. HOLMES. HELLO. NOW, BECAUSE BECAUSE THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL PART OF OUR HEARING, I NEED YOU TO GIVE ME YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO PROMISE OR SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU WILL TELL US THE TRUTH. DO THAT. RON HOLMES. UH, I'M WITH HOLMES FIRM PC. I REPRESENT JOHN AND ANN REYNOLDS, WHO LIVE ON STRAIGHT LANE. MY ADDRESS IS 12 2 41 DALLAS PARKWAY, DALLAS, TEXAS. I WOULD USE FOUR IN. ALRIGHT, SIR, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO TELL US WHATEVER YOU WANT, THINK WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THIS PROPOSED REQUEST. WELL, I, I SUBMITTED A LETTER AND I THINK YOU'VE HAD IT. I'M SURE YOU PROBABLY READ IT. I THINK THE, THE MAIN THING IS DOES THIS, ITS MATCH AND WHAT THIS MATCH MEAN. MATCH MEANS, MATCH, IT MEANS THE SAN CLAUSE, THAT'S THE PLAIN MEANING OF WORD THAT THE LAW REQUIRES THAT YOU GIVE IT, YOU KNOW, IN THIS ORDINANCE THERE ARE OTHER WORDS USED HERE AND THERE APPROPRIATE, SIMILAR, UH, MATCH AS PRACTICABLE. BUT IN SECTION 3.6 A IT SAYS MATCH IN OTHER SECTIONS OF THE ORDINANCE, IT SAYS MATCH EXISTING. DOESN'T SAY CLOSE TO, DOESN'T SAY SORT UP, IT SAYS MATCH. SO I THINK THAT'S PRETTY CONCLUSIVE NOW. THAT'S WHAT THE LADY WANTED AND THAT'S WHAT THE LADY GOT. UH, MAY BE DIFFICULT AT THIS TIME TO MATCH THE OLD FENCE, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS. BUT I DON'T KNOW. UH, YOU HAVE TWO FENCES. I I GUESS THAT COMMISSIONERS ARE AWARE OF THAT. A FENCE THAT LOOKS A LITTLE BIT LIKE THAT, EXCEPT IT'S SIX AND A HALF FEET, EIGHT AND A HALF, AND SIX AND A HALF DON'T MATCH. SO SIX AND A HALF, THERE'S A WOODEN RAIL FENCE. IT'S A FARM FENCE THAT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A FARM FENCE. SO IT DOESN'T MATCH. I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN A SURVEY. I BELIEVE THAT WOOD DEFENSE IS PART OF THE DESIGNATED AREA AND IN THE NO BILL ZONE, SO IT WOULD COUNT. NOW DOES IT LOOK FUNNY? YEAH, , IT LOOKS FUNNY, BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTED. SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GONNA GO ON AND ON ABOUT IT. UH, IT JUST, IT, THE DESIGNATION SAYS WHAT IT SAYS AND I FEEL SORRY FOR MR. SHARIF, BUT THAT'S A NICE LOOKING FENCE, BUT IT'S JUST NOT ALLOWED. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK, THANK YOU SIR. THANK YOU. AND OUR OTHER SPEAKER IS OUR APPLICANT, SAR SHARIF. HELLO SIR. WE ALL KNOW YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, BUT PLEASE SAY IT ANYWAY AND THEN PROMISE OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH. SHAR SHARIF 1 0 2 6 0 STRAI LANE, DALLAS, TEXAS. I LIKE TO BRING UP THREE POINTS. OH, THE TRUTH PART, AS A ALL TRUTH. OKAY, THANK THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE. ALL RIGHT, GO AHEAD SIR. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO GIVE US A SO I'M GONNA SPEND ABOUT THREE MINUTES INTO THREE DIFFERENT THINGS. FIRST, HISTORY OF THE PERMIT. I BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY, WIFE AND I, WE BUILT A HOUSE AROUND THE CORNER AT ONE DOOR, SET PLACE, A NEW HOUSE. BUT WHEN WE FOUND OUT THAT THIS PROPERTY IS FOR SALE, WE BOUGHT THIS BECAUSE OF THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. SO AFTER PURCHASING THE PROPERTY, WE NOTICED THE FENCE IS IN TERRIBLE CONDITION. SO IT PROBABLY IS BUILT 56 YEARS AGO. [01:15:01] SOME OF IT IS FALLING APART, IT'S TIED WITH ZIP TIES. SO EVERY TIME THE WIND BLOWS, IT FALLS DOWN AND THEN WE GO BACK AND PUT THE ZIP TIES. UH, SO I, I LOOKED UP, I HAVE NOT DONE THIS BEFORE. I LOOKED UP THE PROCESS TO BUILD FENCE. SO FIRST WE CAME TO THE HISTORICAL STAFF AND DR. DUNN. EXCELLENT. OUR COMMUNICATION IS EXCELLENT. WE SUBMITTED ALL OUR PLANS, WE GOT APPROVED, WE GOT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS ON NOVEMBER 4TH, I ORDERED THE STONE, ORDERED THE MATERIALS, AND THEN WE FIGURED OUT THAT WE HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE F SITE EXCEPTION TOO. UH, WE WENT THROUGH THEM THE DAY OF THE HEARING, OUR NEIGHBOR WHO HAS HIRED A VERY EXPENSIVE ATTORNEY SINCE THE BILLIONAIRE AND PUSHING US IN THE CORNER, HE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS OPPOSED TO THIS HOUSE BECOMING THE HISTORICAL HOUSE BECAUSE HE WANTED TO PURCHASE THIS AND RAISE THIS AND ADD ON. AS YOU ALL KNOW, BEVERLY PARKERS GOT IN A FIGHT WITH JOHN RENOLD. I'M NOT GONNA GO AND EAT HER WITH THAT. AND SHE WAS LIKE, THERE YOU GO. IT'S HISTORICAL, IT'S GONNA BE NEXT TO YOU REST OF YOUR LIFE. SO WE FIGURED OUT ALL THIS HISTORY AFTER BUYING THE HOUSE. SO OUR PERMIT WAS APPROVED ON 11 FOURTH. I GOT A CALL FROM DR. DUNN A DAY BEFORE THE HEARING FOR THE FENCE SITE EXCEPTION. DR. DUNN EXPLAINED THAT YOU ARE BUILDING A WEIGHT, PAUL FENCE. I WAS LIKE, WE ARE BUILDING EXACTLY THE PLANS THAT WE SUBMITTED AND YOU PROVED, SO LIKE WE ARE GETTING CALLS, A NEIGHBOR FOUND OUT AND CALLED IN. I WAS LIKE, NO, WE ARE NOT. ANYWAYS, IT WAS REVOKED. I THOUGHT HE PULLED SOME STRINGS AND GOT THIS DONE. BUT THEN I LEARNED AT THE PROCESS IS TO COME IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS, YOU KNOW, AND GO THROUGH THIS COMMISSION TO GET THIS DONE. SO THAT WAS A MISTAKE ON THE PART OF, UH, STAFF TO GIVE US THE CA. SO THAT SAID, WE HAVE WORKED, WORKED NOW THREE TIMES, REVISED, GONE BACK TO THE STAFF TO ASK THEM, TELL US EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE LOOKS ALIKE. SO WE HAVE DONE THREE TIMES OVER AND OVER AND GOT IT TO THE POINT, UH, WHERE DR. DUNN SAID, OKAY, THIS LOOKS GOOD. NOW I'M GONNA POINT NUMBER TWO REASONS FOR THE FENCE. THIS IS, THAT IS YOUR TIME, SIR. I WOULD LIKE TO ALLOW HIM ANOTHER TWO MINUTES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER REEVES. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES, YES, YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY, SIR, YOU HAVE TWO MORE MINUTES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH REASONS FOR THE FENCE. NUMBER ONE IS SAFETY AND SECURITY. THERE ARE HOLES IN THE FENCE. UH, THE WOODEN FENCE. THERE ARE COYOTES THERE. BOBCATS. WE HAVE CHICKENS ACTUALLY, COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO. TWO, OUR CHICKENS, UH, WERE KILLED BY BOBCATS. SO FIRST IS SAFETY AND SECURITY. SECOND IS AESTHETICS. THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF FENCE AND THEY'RE DIFFERENT HEIGHT. AT SOME POINTS IT'S UP TO 65 INCHES AT SOME FOUR 15 INCHES. SO THEY'RE DIFFERENT ALL THE WAY THROUGH. IT'LL BE VERY GOOD TO HAVE AESTHETICALLY TO COMPLEMENT THE HOUSE, A UNIFORM FENCE. AND THE HEIGHT. THE REASON FOR THAT, THE SIX FOOT EIGHT INCH IS WHAT THE HEIGHT IS FOR THE ROCK IRON, UH, FENCE IN THE MIDDLE IS SO THE COYOTES AND BOBCAT CAN JUMP OVER IT. THAT'S THE REASON FOR I HAVE A, A 5-YEAR-OLD BOY AND A 9-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER. SO MY KIDS PLAY OUTSIDE AND WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE SAFE. MY PERSONAL STORY, I WANNA TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT ME. I WAS HOMELESS 15 YEARS AGO IN DALLAS. I LIVED IN OUTTA MY CAR, UH, ON UNPRECEDENTED BELTLINE. TO LIVE ON STRAIGHT LANE. THEY CALL THAT BILLIONAIRE STREET, UH, IN DALLAS IS A PRIVILEGE. SO HAVING A HOUSE IS A PRIVILEGE FOR ME. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT HAVING A FANCY FENCE. I'M VERY THANKFUL. I'M VERY BLESSED. UH, MY STORY IS A TRUE AMERICAN STORY FROM HOMELESS, LIVING ON STRAIGHT LANE. I'M VERY THANKFUL. AND OUR NEIGHBORS, UH, THEY HAVE A PROBLEM AND WE HAVE SENT 'EM A LETTER THAT IN CASE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT. EVERYBODY ON STRAIGHT LANE HAS FENCES FROM EIGHT TO 15 FEET, AND MOST OF YOU GUYS HAVE DRIVEN THE STRAIGHT LANE. HAVE SEEN THEY CAN SEE THE HOUSES. FOR OUR REASONS, THE MAIN REASON IS SAFETY AND SECURITY. BUT MY TWO KIDS AND SECOND IS, EXCUSE ME, SIR, THAT IS YOUR TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT, WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS, SO DON'T GO FAR. ALL RIGHTY. AND NOW IS [01:20:01] THE TIME WHEN WE GET TO, WHEN COMMISSIONER'S ASK QUESTIONS. AND I OH, I DID WANNA ASK YOU ONE QUESTION. MR. RE, PLEASE COME BACK. YOU MIGHT AS WELL NOT SIT DOWN. JUST STAND THERE. I YOU, ALRIGHT. UM, ON THE, THE SECURITY ISSUE, HOW FAR APART ARE THE BARS OF THE METAL PART OF YOUR PROPOSED FENCE? THAT IS WHAT IS THE AREA THROUGH WHICH? BETWEEN THE SPACE, THE, THE WOODEN FENCES? NO, THE ONES YOU WANNA BUILD THAT HAVE THE METAL UPRIGHTS. HOW FAR APART ARE THE METAL UPRIGHTS? UPRIGHT HEIGHT? NO. HOW FAR APART ARE THEY? THEY DO THEY LEAVE BETWEEN THEM? THEY'RE ABOUT TWO INCHES. THEY'RE ONLY TWO INCHES. YEAH. SO WE HAVE ACTUALLY COPIED THE FENCE DESIGNED THAT'S IN PLACE RIGHT NOW. DIFFERENT. SO THEY HAVE TWO INCHES BETWEEN THEM THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE DRAWING SOMEHOW, BUT IT'S HARD TO DRAW SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE, WE COPIED EXACT, UH, FOR THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. SO WE CHANGED THE FENCE DESIGN ABOUT THREE TIMES TO MAKE IT EXACTLY LIKE WHAT IT IS THERE. OKAY. SO IS IT TWO INCHES CLEAR BETWEEN THE PICKETS, THE METAL PICKETS STAFF? BECAUSE IT'S FULL? IT DOESN'T AND THEN IT OPENS UP ON THE TOP. OKAY. BECAUSE, UM, THE WIDER ONES GENERALLY, I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU, EVERY CAT CAN WALK THROUGH THEM. AND I DID ONCE MEET A BOBCAT. HE WAS TAXIDERMY HIMSELF. I WOULD SAY , BUT, UM, HE, HE WAS THE WIDTH OF A HOUSE CAT. SO YEAH. AND THEY CAN JUMP 10 FEET. SO THIS, YES, THEY CAN CLEAR A 10 FOOT HIGH THING. SO I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS PROPOSED FENCE WILL REALLY STOP THEM OR COYOTES WHO ALSO DO HAVE A LEAN AND HUNGRY LOOK TO VOTE SHAKESPEARE, , BUT THEY KIND OF LIKE A WOLF. SO I'M, I CAN I UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR CONCERNS, BUT THIS FENCE MAY NOT PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN COMPLETELY. THEY MIGHT BE MORE PROTECTED IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE CHICKENS, FRANKLY, , BECAUSE THEN THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT THE PREDATORS ARE COMING FOR. THEY, THEY DON'T REALLY WANT, HUMANS WE'RE TOO DANGEROUS. I GREW UP ON A FARM, A VERY SMALL FARM IN PAKISTAN, AND I THINK GROWING UP WITH ANIMALS IS THE BEST THING KIDS CAN HAVE. OKAY. OR PERHAPS ADD A LARGE DOG TO YOUR MENAGERIE. YEAH, WE, WE HAVE DOG, WE HAVE CATS, WE HAVE DUCKS, WE HAVE DUCKLING CHICKENS. WE GOT, I'M JUST SAYING I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT, UM, UNCONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY OF YOUR FAMILY, BUT I'M NOT SURE THIS FENCE IS WHAT WILL PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN. OKAY. IT'S, WE, WE ARE PLANNING ON PUTTING SOME SORT OF LANDSCAPE TO, TOWARDS SOME OF IT, YOU KNOW, BUT WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN INTO THAT. BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOME LANDSCAPE. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL SEE WHAT, OKAY, LET'S SEE WHAT QUESTIONS OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. YEAH. THIS QUESTION FOR STAFF, UM, I'M TRYING TO ASCERTAIN THE, THE FENCE. I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS THE, IT WAS WRITTEN INTO THE ORDINANCE, THE, THE, THE DIMENSIONS AND THE STYLE AND ALL OF THIS EVENTS. IS THIS, HOW IS THIS FENCE HISTORIC? I MEAN, WHEN, WHEN WAS THIS BUILT, THIS FENCE BUILT? I MEAN, WE'RE JUST GOING BACK TO IT BEING A PART OF THE, UH, THE, UH, WHEN IT WAS APPLIED TO BE HIS, UH, PROTECTED. RIGHT. BUT IS IT ACTUALLY HISTORIC FENCE IS YOU DON'T KNOW? NO, BECAUSE WHEN I, I READ THE DESIGNATION REPORT TO PREPARE FOR THIS, RIGHT. AND THE DESIGNATION REPORT SAYS IT DOES NOT KNOW WHEN THE FENCE WAS CONSTRUCTED OR ERECTED. SO JUST BECAUSE IT WAS PUT IN UPON THE LADY'S BEHALF TO TRY TO PUT THIS IN TO BE A PROTECTED THING. IT'S NOT REALLY HISTORIC, IT'S JUST UNDER THE ORDINANCE. SO IT'S UNDER THE ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY A, A HISTORIC PROTECTED FENCE TYPE OF THING. UM, SO IT'S JUST CONJECTURE TO THIS POINT OF WHEN THE, WHEN IT WAS BUILT AND ALL THAT MARCUS HAS UNDER THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS. I WOULD SAY ANYTHING SINCE 1976, UH, ANYTHING BEFORE 1976 COULD BE CONSIDERED PART OF THE AND THE SIGNIFICANT PERIOD, PERIOD FOR THIS. WE DON'T, I MEAN, WELL WE HAVE, THAT'S, THAT'S STILL CONJECTURE ON MY, SO THAT'S CONJECTURE. BUT, BUT IF IT, BUT IT COULD BE EVOLUTION OF THE PROPERTY EVEN UP TO SEVEN, SAY 76. IT JUST SEEMS ODD THAT IT'S KIND OF CONJECTURE AND WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE THIS PROCESSION. IS THERE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR, FOR THAT? IS, IS THERE, UH, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IT BEING MATCHING AND ALL THAT. IS THERE AN AN EXISTING DRAW, UH, DRAWING WITH DIMENSIONS OF THE EXISTING FENCE? NO, NOT JUST A PHOTOGRAPH TO, SO, 'CAUSE IF I, IF I MATCH SOMETHING AND SOMEONE ELSE MATCHES SOMETHING, WE MIGHT BE MATCHING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. UNDERSTOOD. SO IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED ON WHAT, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO MATCH. BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS GONNA BE MATCHING DIFFERENT THINGS TO, TO I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ALL I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, LIKE WHAT DOES MATCH MEAN? RIGHT? SO WHEN WE START PLAYING THE GAME OF MATCHING IT, IT, IT'S, THAT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING DIMENSIONS AND DETAILS AND ALL OF THAT. SO WE CAN ACTUALLY [01:25:01] PAIR THAT UP. SO YOU'RE ASKING FOR LIKE AN ASALT I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO GO OFF ON SOMEBODY ELSE SAYING IT'S MATCHING BECAUSE WE, WE MIGHT, WE HAVE FIVE PEOPLE HERE. WE MIGHT HAVE FIVE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS MM-HMM . SO IT WOULD BASICALLY TO BE ABLE TO, TO PIN IT TO SOMETHING SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT, HERE'S WHAT IT IS. MM-HMM . IT BEING ACTUALLY CONFIRMED. AND THEN, SO THEN YOU BUILD OFF OF THE DIMENSION DRAWINGS. MM-HMM . NOT BUILDING OFF. I THINK IT'S LIKE THAT. SO THAT'S, I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT. UM, IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE IN BETTER JUDGMENT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, IT, IN MY OPINION, IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING, IT MIGHT BE MORE OF AN IN SITU REPAIR IN PLACE TYPE OF THING INSTEAD OF TRYING TO COME UP WITH DIFFERENT THINGS OF A CONJECTURE ITEM THAT ALREADY EXIST. SO WE'RE ALL JUST KIND OF ADDING TO CONJECTURES AND ADDING TO THINGS. AND IF THINGS ARE NEEDING TO BE REPAIRED, IT SEEMS LIKE AN INCENTIVE TO RE REPAIR IN PLACE MIGHT BE THE BEST JUDGMENT UNTIL WE KNOW FURTHER MAYBE ABOUT THE PAST OF IT. THANKS FOR THE ANSWERS. AND UNFORTUNATELY, AS WITH SO MANY PROPERTIES, NO ONE THOUGHT TO DOCUMENT EVERYTHING ALONG THE WAY. WE SO WISH THEY JUST SPENT ALL THEIR TIME TAKING PICTURES AND DRAWING DRAWINGS. BUT WE NEVER HAVE WHAT WE NEED. WE COULD DOCUMENT WHAT'S THERE NOW. AT LEAST WE CAN COMMISSIONER PRESI. OKAY. UH, WELL FIRST OFF, I, I CAN GIVE A LOT OF CONTEXT TO THIS 'CAUSE I'VE ACTUALLY WORKED DIRECTLY WITH, UM, BEVERLY RAY WHO LANDMARKED, UH, THESE PROPERTIES. BUT I'M GONNA GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE. BUT FIRST I'M GONNA GO BACK TO THE OWNER. I WANNA SAY THANK YOU FOR PURCHASING THIS VERY SPECIAL PROPERTY. UM, IT WAS BEVERLY'S, UH, INTENTIONS THAT THIS PROPERTY WOULD REMAIN AS IS AND PROTECT IT IN PERPETUITY. SHE VERY MUCH LOVED THIS PROPERTY. UH, I HAVE PUT THAT IN MY TRUST FOR MY SON. SO WE HAVE SIX OFFERS IN THE HOUSE, INCLUDING THIS CLIENT. EVERYBODY WANTS TO BUY THIS HOUSE. AND I HAVE PUT THAT IN. MY TRUST'S NOT GONNA BE SOLD. IT'S GONNA PASS ON MY SON. WELL GOOD, THANK YOU. UM, SO QUESTION FOR YOU. WERE YOU AWARE OF THE CRITERIA REGARDING THE FENCE WHEN YOU PURCHASED THE PROPERTY? DID YOU GET A COPY OF THE RESERVATION CRITERIA? I KNEW BY THE HOUSE. WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE HOUSE, WE KNEW ABOUT THE HOUSE AND WE FELL IN LOVE WITH THE HOUSE. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PROPERTY. MM-HMM . ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS PROPERTY. IF I WANTED TO LIVE IN A NEW HOUSE, WE BUILT A NEW HOUSE AT ONE DOOR, SET PLACE RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER THAT WAS BRAND NEW BUILT. AND, UH, MY WIFE AND I, WE LOVED THE HISTORY OF THE HOUSE. WE DIDN'T KNOW ALL THE THINGS THAT TRANSPIRED, WHY SHE MADE THAT. WE FOUND OUT LATER ON FROM NEIGHBORS WHAT ALL GOES ON, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, UH, MR. MCNELL BUILT A HOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO HERS. MM-HMM . AND SHE DIDN'T LIKE THE FACT LIKE X YOU KNOW, SO HE SAID THAT YOU'RE GONNA DIE SOON, SO I'M GONNA DOSE DOWN YOUR HOUSE. WHAT'S THE POINT? SO SHE WAS LIKE, OKAY, I'LL LET YOU, I'M NOT GONNA LET YOU DOSE DOWN MY HOUSE. SO NOW, AND I, OUR NEXT NEIGHBOR IS GOING TO BE THE FOUNDER OF WHATSAPP AND HE WANTS TO BUY MY HOUSE. AND HE IS LIKE, I'LL WRITE WHATEVER AMOUNT YOU WANT, JACK. HE'S GOT 17 BILLION. SO, UH, I WAS LIKE, NO, NOT FOR SALE. THIS PROPERTY IS NOT FOR SALE. AND I PUT THAT IN CHRIS, UH, FOR MY SON. SO BACK TO THE QUESTION THOUGH. DID YOU KNOW, UH, DID YOU KNOW THE FENCE REQUIREMENT WHEN YOU PURCHASED? NO. FENCE WAS NOT THE HOUSE I KNEW. 'CAUSE FENCE, I MEAN IT'S LIKE TWO, THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF FENCES ON THERE. YOU KNOW, THE STYLES AND ALL THAT. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE FENCE, BUT WE FOUND OUT WHEN WE'RE GONNA BUILD IT AND THAT'S WHEN WE SUBMITTED THE APPLICATION AND GOT THE CA UH, TO BUILD THE FENCE. OKAY. SO THEN BACK TO THE, THE FENCE QUESTION OR, OR YOU KNOW, WHEN SHE LANDMARKED THE PROPERTY, SHE HAD THINGS THAT SHE WANTED DESIGNATED AS PART OF THAT, AND PART OF THAT WAS THE FRONT AND THE FENCE PORTION OF THE PROPERTY. AND THAT WAS WRITTEN INTO THAT SPECIFICALLY. IT WASN'T, WE JUST SAID MATCH THE FENCE. WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YEAR THE FENCE WAS. OH, THIS WAS BACK IN 2022 WAS 22. THAT SOUNDS DRIVE 22. UH, THAT IT WAS DESIGNATED. ONE PART OF THE FENCE WAS BUILT IN 2017. TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. YEAH. UM, THAT WAS WRITTEN INTO, TO THE ORDINANCE. AND THAT ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED OR PASSED, YOU KNOW, WAS RECOMMENDED BY THIS BODY AND THEN WENT ON AND PASSED BY, UM, PASSED BY THE COUNCIL. AND I THINK THAT IF WE, I, I THINK WE HONOR NEED TO WHAT HONOR WHAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE. UM, AND THAT SAYS MATCH THE EXISTING FENCE AND WE KNOW WHAT THE EXISTING FENCE IS 'CAUSE WE CAN SEE THE EXISTING FENCE AND WE USE MATCHING ALL THE TIME. MATCH SIDING MATERIALS OR MATCH ROOF COLORS, MATCH THIS, MATCH THAT. SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING UNUSUAL THAT WE USE WITHIN PRESERVATION. 'CAUSE WE ASK TO MATCH THINGS ALL THE TIME. UM, BUT I THINK IT WOULD REALLY BE A DISSERVICE TO ALL LANDMARK PROPERTIES IF WE START TAKING AWAY PARTS OF THE, THE DESIGNATION CRITERIA THAT WE DON'T LIKE. THEY WERE SET UP BY OWNERS THAT WANTED THESE PROPERTIES PROTECTED. AND SO IF WE'RE NOT RECOGNIZING THOSE ITEMS IN THOSE PORTIONS [01:30:01] OF THE ORDINANCE, THEN WE'RE REALLY DOING DISSERVICE TO LANDMARKING, UH, IN GENERAL. SO THAT'S MY, MY THOUGHT ON IT. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. UH, COMMISSIONER, THERE'S A NO BILL ZONE. IS THERE SOME REASON THEY CAN'T PUT A GIGANTIC SHORT BEHIND THE FENCE? UH, THAT WAS ALSO WHAT MARCUS WAS JUST ASKING ME ABOUT. IS, UH, DR. DUNN WITH A SPECIFIC RESTRICTIONS HERE, DO THEY SHOW ANYTHING THAT WOULD PREVENT THE CONSTRUCTION OF A FENCE IN THE BUILDABLE ZONE THAT WOULD CREATE AN AREA IMPERVIOUS TO CRITTERS? IN OTHER WORDS, INSTEAD OF INSTEAD OF CHANGING THIS FENCE, GO IN PAST THE NO BUILD ZONE TO BUILD THE FENCE THAT IS MORE IMPERVIOUS TO BOBCATS AND COYOTES FURTHER INTO THE PROPERTY, THAT WOULDN'T BE IN THE NOBU ZONE. IT GOES ALL THE WAY INTO THERE, PECAN TREES. SO IT GOES TO THE POND. IT'S ALL OF IT. IT'S THE WHOLE THING IS, UH, PART OF IT. IT'S NOT JUST SMALL PORTION GO, I'M AFRAID TO THROW IN THE EXTRA BAD NEWS IN MY RESEARCH ON BOBCAT'S, THEY CAN SCALE A 30 FOOT FENCE IF IT'S WOOD AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY HANG ON. SO , THEY CAN, THEY CAN BE, I, MY I RESEARCHED THIS THIS WEEKEND AS WELL. 12 FEET WITHOUT ANY HELP. THEY CAN, THEY CAN JUST SPRING 12. THEY'RE, THEY'RE LIKE THE HOUSE CAT ONLY. YES. . AND, AND THE REASON THERE ARE TWO FENCES IS THAT THIS WAS CUR WAS PREVIOUSLY TWO SEPARATE PROPERTIES AND BEVERLY RAY PUT THOSE PROPERTIES TOGETHER. AND SO NOW THE DESIGNATION IS OVER BOTH THE PROPERTIES, WHICH WAS TEN TWO SIXTY, WHICH IS WHAT THE HOUSE IS ON NOW. AND THEN TEN TWO FORTY, WHICH HAS HAD A HOUSE THAT WAS, UH, PARTIALLY TORN DOWN AND REBUILT INTO THIS OTHER STRUCTURE. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A CHICKEN COOP ON THERE AND SOME OTHER BUILDINGS. UM, SO THAT'S A SEPARATE, THAT WAS ORIGINALLY A SEPARATE, UH, UM, PROPERTY. SO THAT'S WHY THE FENCES DON'T MATCH, UH, WITH THAT. AND THERE'S ONE CAVEAT IN ALL OF THIS. WHEN I GOT THE CA APPROVED IN ON NOVEMBER 4TH, I ORDERED ALL THE MATERIALS AND ALL OF IT ACTUALLY, WE WERE GONNA DOSE DOWN THE FENCE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WE GOT THE CA AND I'M SO GLAD I STOPPED BECAUSE I, THAT WOULD BE DISRESPECTED THIS BODY, YOU KNOW, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT GOES WITH YOU GUYS AND YOU ARE THE EXPERTS AND YOU KNOW MORE HOW IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. UH, BUT WHEN WE GOT THAT, WE ALMOST GOES DOWN THE FENCE AND ORDERED ALL THE MATERIALS AND I MEAN, ACTUALLY I'M PAYING STORAGE FEE BECAUSE THEY WANT THAT PICKED UP, BUT WE ARE NOT PICKING UP BECAUSE WE'RE NOT BUILDING ANYTHING. UH, SO THAT'S ONE PROBLEM. I UNDERSTAND WE ARE HUMANS AND WE MAKE MISTAKES, BUT ENDED UP COSTING ME MONEY AS TO, WE GOT THE CA AND THEN I HAVE EMAILS WHERE LIKE YOU HAVE THE CA FROM THE, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT NOW GO AND GET THE PITE EXCEPTION AND GET THAT, UH, THERE'S A SEPARATE COMMISSION. SO WE APPLIED FOR THAT AND THE DAY OF THE HEARING IS WHEN WE, UH, THE PERMIT WAS THE DAY OF THE HEARING. AND THEN WE GOT A LETTER FROM HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT IN CASE YOU GET APPROVED BY THE DEFENSE HEIGHT, MAKE SURE BUILD THE SAME, YOU KNOW, USE THE SAME MATERIALS, SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO FOR THE RECORD, THE, THE VARIANCE HAS NOT BEEN YET APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. SO, UH, THAT'S STILL ON HOLD PENDING YOUR DECISION. AND UM, UM, TO, TO YOUR POINT, WE, WE ARE VERY SORRY THAT SOMETHING CONFUSING HAPPENED. AS YOU JUST SAID, HUMANS DO MAKE MISTAKES. YES. BUT I BELIEVE YOU WERE HERE EARLIER DURING OUR BRIEFING, RIGHT? AND I DID VERIFY WITH OUR CITY ATTORNEY, I WANTED TO KNOW IF, IF THERE THERE ARE WORDS IN WHAT THEIR, IN THE STAFF'S, UM, ROUTINE MAINTENANCE CA RESPONSE WAS THAT YOU WERE ALLOWED TO RECON, YOU KNOW, TO RECONSTRUCT OR REPAIR THE FENCE SO THAT IT CAME OUT LOOKING THE SAME AS, YOU KNOW, MADAM CHAIRMAN TO COPY IT. BUT THAT THAT, AND I KNOW THE DRAWING SHOWED IT BEING MUCH TALLER, BUT THEY DID IN THEIR WORDS, SAY THEY WERE GIVING YOU PERMISSION TO COPY WHAT WAS THERE. WE SUBMITTED THE DRAWINGS, MADAM CHAIRMAN, WE SAID THAT THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BUILD AND THEY SAID YOU HAVE THE CA TO BUILD THIS. YEAH, I'M SAYING THEY DIDN'T SAY YOU, THAT THEY, THE ONLY WE HAVE HERE IS THAT THEY DIDN'T SAY YOU MAY BUILD EXACTLY WHAT'S IN THIS DRAWING. THEY SAID YOU MAY BUILD IT TO MATCH. AND I WISH THEY HADN'T MADE THAT MISTAKE BECAUSE IT DID LEAD YOU TO EXTRA TROUBLE. BUT YOU GOTTA ADMIT, EVEN IF WE, WE LOVED THE FENCE AND SAID GO AHEAD AND BUILD IT, YOU STILL HAD TO GO TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. YES. AND IT COULD HAVE GONE AGAINST YOU AND YOU COULD STILL BE IN EXACTLY THE SAME PLACE YOU ARE. SO WE ALWAYS HATE TO SEE ACCIDENTS LIKE THAT HAPPEN OR MISUNDERSTANDINGS THAT CAN TARNISH THE IMAGE OF PRESERVATION AND MAKE YOU NOT LIKE IT THAT YOU HAVE A HISTORIC HOUSE. BUT AS I'VE CONFIRMED WITH OUR LEGAL ADVISOR AT THIS POINT, WE DECIDE BASED ON WHAT'S BEST FOR HONORING [01:35:01] THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. A HUNDRED PERCENT. AND I'M HERE AT YOUR BEST JUDGMENT, WHAT YOU THINK WE HAVE CONCERNS, UH, IS A OLD FENCE, DIFFERENT KINDS OF FENCES. IF WE CAN HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S STURDY, THAT'S REAL, ONE UNIFORM FENCE THAT'S GONNA COMPLIMENT THE HOUSE, UH, WITH THE SAME MATERIALS. WE HAVE CHANGED PLANS ACTUALLY, UH, JUST EXACTLY THE WHOLE SHAPE OF THE FENCE TO MATCH. 'CAUSE MY ARCHITECT CAME TO THE HOUSE, HE MEASURED, HE MADE SURE, AND THEN WE WENT BACK AND FORTH AND DR. DUNN HAD A FEW MORE POINTERS THAT NEED TO CHANGE CERTAIN MORE THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, IT MATCHES. SO WE EVEN WENT TO THE POINT WHERE WE CAN TAKE OFF THE DOTS AND KEEP THOSE DOTS AND PUT 'EM BACK ON. OKAY. I'M, I'M GLAD YOU STILL HAVE THE DOGS BECAUSE THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT. CLEARLY. 'CAUSE THEY'RE ADORABLE. SO WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR DOCKET, I'LL VERIFY WITH DR. DUNN, REFLECTS ALL THE CHANGES AND IS EXACTLY WHAT HE WISHES TO BUILD NOW. YEAH. YEAH. THE DOGS. AND THEN ALSO I DO HAVE THE CURRENT SITE PLAN FROM THE ORDINANCE UP AND IT SHOWS THE NO BILL ZONE IS ACTUALLY LIKE TO THE REAR OF THE HOUSE. YEAH. YEAH. SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE MOVING THE FENCE SIDE. OKAY. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WILL WORK. YEAH. BUT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT WHAT THE PLANS WE'RE LOOKING AT EXCEPT FOR THE DOGS, WHICH WILL GO UP EVEN IF I HAVE TO CARVE DOGS AND APPLY THEM MYSELF IN THE NIGHT. . OKAY. SO YOU'LL KNOW IF DOGS APPEAR OR WHO DID IT. SO WE'VE GOT THAT. SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YES, MADAM COMMISSIONER ROSKI, DR. DUNN, THIS QUESTION'S FOR YOU? YES. UM, THE 80% OPENNESS MM-HMM . IS THAT BETWEEN THE VERTICAL PICKETS? YES. THAT'S BETWEEN. AND, BUT IF, IF THE APPLICANT IS SAYING IT'S ONLY TWO INCHES, IS THAT INCORRECT? BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT WOULD BE 80% OPENNESS. WELL, AS YOU NOTICED, WELL, AS I STATED EARLIER IN MY PRESENTATION, HE HASN'T PROVIDED THE SPECIFICATIONS YET FOR THOSE PICKETS. I NEED TO SEE THOSE FOR HIM TO ACTUALLY HAVE A COMPLETED APPLICATION. SO THIS, THIS DRAWING AND I'LL PACK IT. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON? OR NOT NECESSARILY? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON. DO YOU HAVE THE SPECS FOR THOSE? UH, FENCE PICKETS? SO JUST, I JUST, I JUST DID THE CALCULATION BY COUNTING THE MM-HMM . THE NUMBER PICKETS. IT APPEARS AS THOUGH IF MY CALCULATIONS ARE CORRECT, THEY'RE 4.8 INCHES BETWEEN THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE PICKETS AND ABOUT 2.4 ON THE TOP HALF. MM-HMM . UM, NOW THAT, THAT'S NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE WIDTH OF EACH PICKET, SO I ASSUME IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT SMALLER THAN 4.8 AND 2.4. SO I, I'M JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW THAT IF THAT'S THE CASE, IF THAT GIVES US THE 80% OPENNESS. IF, IF I FIND THAT CORRECTLY, IT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE AROUND NINE. OKAY. AND WE CAN SAY THAT THE PROPORTION OF THE OPEN SPACE MUST EQUAL WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE DRAWING, BASICALLY TO US, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DIMENSIONS. WE'RE AT LEAST VOTING ON THAT PROPORTION BECAUSE AS IT'S DEPICTED DOES LOOK LIKE A LOT OF OF PARTS YOU CAN SEE BOTH. AND THAT THE FED IS KIND OF THE OTHER MEMBER. SO I INSTRUCTED MY ARCHITECT TO LOOK AT THE DESIGN THAT'S THERE RIGHT NOW AND JUST COPY PAYE. LIKE WE WANNA BUILD EXACT SAME 'CAUSE THAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION, JUST, UH, TALLER. ALRIGHT. SO IT'S UP TO US TO, TO WANT TO KNOW, TO CONSIDER WHETHER WE NEED TO HAVE DIMENSION DRAWINGS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS OR WHETHER WE CAN GO WITH SAYING LIKE THAT COMMISSIONER RES AND LET'S ALL NOT WHISPER TOO MUCH WHILE WE'RE ALL TALK COMMISSIONER RES. I DON'T REALLY THINK I GOT A ANSWER TO THIS. NO, THOSE UP MOSTS WON'T BE OUT. UM, SHRUBS WILL KEEP CHILDREN IN. YEAH. BUT THEN THEY CAN'T RUN AWAY. I'M SORRY. THAT WAS, WAS VERY INSENSITIVE. SO MY MY UNDERSTANDING IS LIKE, THERE'S, THERE'S SCRUB, BUT THEN IF YOU'RE TALKING LIKE HETERO, A HETERO IS, IT FALLS UNDER THE SAME DEFINITION AS FENCE IN THE, IN THE WAR. SO WE, HE COULDN'T HAVE LIKE ROW OF SEAT. IT WOULD, IT WOULD STILL COME TO Y'ALL AS AS IF IT WERE A FENCE. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. UM, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO SPEAK OR ASK A QUESTION WHO HAS NOT YET ASKED A QUESTION? COMMISSIONER RENE. UH, JUST WANTED TO MAKE A CLARIFICATION. UM, WHEN WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT MATCHING THE EXISTING PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I SAW ACTUALLY HAD A TWO, AND THIS IS THE TWO INCH I THOUGHT YOU WERE REFERRING TO, IS THERE'S A, A A TWO INCH BY TWO INCH SCREEN BEHIND THE, THE, UH, THE STEEL PORTIONS OF THE FENCE. YES. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. SO THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IN EFFECT REDUCES THE, THE, THE OPENING, WHICH I THOUGHT YOU WERE TRYING TO, TO GO, AND I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING. BUT IS THAT NOT THE CASE? [01:40:01] THAT'S NOT THE, THE MESH YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MESH AT THE BOTTOM? THAT'S, UH, ACTUALLY ON ONLY 10% OF THE FENCE. NOW THIS IS ALL, YOU KNOW, UH, BROKEN OFF A BIT, SO, UH, THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS LOOKING INTO. OKAY. SO THAT'S ONE IDEA TO PUT, I AM OPEN TO WHATEVER MAKES IT RIGHT NOW, IF YOU COME AND LOOK AT THE PLACE, THE STORMS ARE FALLING OFF. AND, UH, I SUBMITTED THE PICTURES WHERE LIKE TWO OF THE FULL POSTS FELL OFF, BUT WE PUT 'EM TOGETHER, , YOU KNOW, SO JUST SOMETHING THAT'S MORE SECURE, UH, ALONG THE LINES OF PROPER FACTS, YOU KNOW? UH, I'M OPEN TO ANY IDEAS. WE ARE NOT WANTING TO LOOK LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE STREET. I'M NOT A BILLIONAIRE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO COMPETE WITH HIM. I HAVE NO COMPETITION. I HAVE MADE THAT CLEAR. WELL, MY SENSE THERE, I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, I BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY BECAUSE OF BEAUTIFUL PROPERTY. I WANNA PRESERVE IT. I WANNA PASS IT ON TO MY SON, YOU KNOW. UH, SO I'M OPEN TO ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO CURRENTLY, IF YOU SEE WE HAVE AN INSPECTOR COME BY, UH, MCCLENNAN EX. SHE STOPPED BY. YES. WHEN SHE'S SITTING RIGHT BACK THERE. AND I WALKED HER THROUGH THE FENCE AND SHE WAS LIKE, WHOA, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IS, IS THAT TERRIBLE CONDITION, ALL OF IT. SO WE HAVE LIKE SOME POINTS, WE HAVE LIKE PUT HEELS, THEN THEY OPENED UP THE WHOLE THING. SO WE JUST, UH, PUT THE NAILS IN. AND MY WIFE, SHE WAS WORRIED. SHE'S LIKE, YOU NEED TO GO TO COMMISSION BEFORE YOU PUT THE NAIL IN. I WAS LIKE, I DON'T THINK THEY MINE. IT JUST FELL OFF. SO WE NEED TO PUT THE NAILS IN. SHE'S SO WORRIED BY THE BOOK. I WAS LIKE, IT JUST FELL OFF. SO I'M GONNA HAVE MY GUYS, YOU KNOW, JUST PUT THE NAILS IN. AND WE WALKED THE OPPOSITE, THE WHOLE THING. SHE WAS LIKE, YEAH, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, TAKE PICTURES AND SEND IN, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW. SO THANK YOU. UM, I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER ANDERSON ALSO WISHES TO SPEAK. AND IF THAT'S THE END OF THE QUESTIONS, THEN IT WILL BE TIME TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND HAVE A MOTION FROM SOMEBODY. I HAVE A QUESTION OF STAFF. COULD YOU, UM, REMIND US WHAT IT SAYS IN THE ORDINANCE ABOUT THIS FENCE? OKAY. ALRIGHT. THE SECTION 3.6, SUBSECTION A APPLIES TO FENCES AND IT STATES THE FOLLOWING. NO NEW FENCES ARE PERMITTED IN THE NO BUILD ZONE EXCEPT TO MATCH EXISTING FENCE REPAIR IS CONSIDERED ROUTINE MAINTENANCE. OKAY. SO WE ARE ACTUALLY BUILDING A NEW FENCE WHERE THE OLD, UM, WOOD FENCES, THE, THE WOOD, UM, STOCKADE OR THE, THE RANCH FENCE. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT WORKS, BUT WE'RE MATCHING EXISTING. SO IF WE HAVE A HOUSE, AS SOMEBODY SAID EARLIER AND THEY SAID, WE WANT THE SIDING TO MATCH EXISTING, THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN THE SAME WOOD SIDING THAT'S ON THE HOUSE. MM-HMM . THE WAY I READ THIS IS WE'RE TRYING TO MATCH THE EXISTING. SO IF BY ACT OF GOD OR SO CAR HITS IT AND DAMAGES THE FENCE, WE'RE GONNA BUILD IT TO MATCH EXISTING. WE HAVE AN HISTORIC BUILDING. MM-HMM . AND, UM, COMMISSIONER, UM, RIZZI ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER THOUGHT HIGHLY OF THE FENCE AND SHE WANTED IT TO BE PROTECTED. MM-HMM . SO I LOOK AT THIS AS SAYING OUR OPTION IS WE NEED TO MATCH THE EXISTING TEARING DOWN THE EXISTING, UH, UH, STONE WALLS THAT ARE, ARE BEEN THERE A WHILE. THEY WEREN'T BUILT FIVE YEARS AGO. THEY, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE PRETTY, PRETTY OLD, WOULD BE GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. MY, THE ONLY RECOGNITION I CAN SEE IS THAT WE NEED TO FIX THE FENCE THAT'S THERE. LEAVE THE ONE THAT'S THERE AS IT IS 'CAUSE IT'S PART OF THE HISTORIC PROPERTY. MM-HMM . AND THEN WE HAVE TO DECIDE HOW WE ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH THE REST OF THE FENCE. UM, IT, IT SHOULD BE DISCERNIBLE DIFFERENT THAN THIS ONE BECAUSE THE OTHER FENCE WAS NEVER THERE. THAT WAS PART OF ANOTHER PROPERTY. SO IT GETS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONFUSING IF WE'RE GOING TO BUILD A SECOND FENCE AND WALL TO RESEMBLE THIS ONE. THAT HAS TO BE DISCERNIBLY DIFFERENT SO THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE BOTH THE FENCE WERE BUILT AT THE SAME TIME. SO THIS IS GETTING A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED, BUT I SEE NO OTHER OPTION. WE'RE, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BUILD IT TO MATCH THE EXISTING, WHICH DOESN'T MEANS TEARING IT DOWN IN A BUILDING A TALLER. THAT'S HOW I LOOK AT IT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER ANDERSON. ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS IN THAT CASE THEN? UH, WE, WE STOPPED HAVING OUR, OUR PUBLIC HEARING. AND [01:45:01] I NEED A MOTION FOR SOMEBODY. I HAVE A MOTION. Y'ALL FIGHT IT OUT. WHO WANTS TO MAKE THE MOTION? ALL RIGHT. UH, LET'S SEE. IN THE MATTER OF CASE NUMBER 26 DASH 1 5 3 1 A TEN TWO SIXTY STRAIGHT LANE. I MOVE THAT WE, UH, DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE. UH, THE PROPOSED, UH, THE REQUEST TO BUILD A NEW FENCE TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE AS A PROPOSED WORK IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE REGULATIONS CONTAINED IN THE PRESERVATION CRITERIA FOR TEN TWO SIXTY. STRAIGHT LETTER. SECOND. AND WHO WAS THE SECOND? COMMISSIONER HARPER. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT IS THE MOTION ON THE TABLE. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS? UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR MOTION. I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE FIRST PART OF THE REQUEST. UM, DOES YOUR MOTION ADDRESS THAT FIRST PART WHERE , OR DOES IT YEAH, I SAID THE REQUEST TO BUILD A NEW FENCE TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE. OKAY. . UM, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO AMEND THE MOTION TO INCLUDE AN APPROVAL WITH THE CONDITION THAT IT IS THE HEIGHT OF THE PREVIOUS ONE? BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS A SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, MATCHES SOMEWHAT EXCEPT FOR THE HEIGHT. UH, AND I BELIEVE THAT BASED ON THE, THE PUBLIC COMMENT, THAT WAS THE BIGGEST ISSUE. UM, THAT IT DOESN'T MATCH THE HEIGHT, BUT JUST KIND OF THROWING IT OUT THERE. UM, SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THEY WOULD YOU MEAN THEY WOULD BUILD IT AT THE, THE EIGHT FOOT HEIGHT, THE REQUESTED HEIGHT? THE THE CURRENT, UH, THE CURRENT HEIGHT OF THE OH, WELL IF THEY BUILD IT AT THE CURRENT HEIGHT, THEY WOULDN'T, THEY WOULD BE ROUTINE. THEY WOULD BE, WOULD BE CONSIDERED ROUTINE, RIGHT? IS THAT CORRECT? STAFF? THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO REPAIR IT OR REPLACE IN KIND? YEAH. YEAH. THE STONE'S FINE. IT WOULD BE REPAIR. SO IT WOULD BE ROUTINE MAINTENANCE OR NOT. OKAY. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE FROM ANYBODY? MADAM CHAIR? I NOT YOU ACTUALLY, I MEAN, I DIDN'T MEAN THAT, THAT SOUNDED TERRIBLE. OFFICIALLY, ONCE THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED, ONLY WE GET TO TALK. SOMETIMES I LET PEOPLE TALK, BUT I JUST WANTED, DID SOMEONE JUST TELL ME THEY HAD SOMETHING TO SAY OVER HERE? MADAM CHAIR? I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET A CLARIFICATION ON, UM, MR. PRE'S MOTION HIS WAS DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE. YES. REQUEST IT WAS TO DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. STILL LEAVES THE DOOR OPEN FOR A ROUTINE MAINTENANCE APPROVAL OF REPAIRING THE FENCE TO LOOK EXACTLY THE LIKE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED. WELL, NOT LIKE IT DOES NOW FALLING DOWN, BUT , YOU KNOW, NICE VERSION OF IT. I DO. AND YOUR, AND YOUR MENTION WAS BASED ON THAT IT DID NOT MEET THE CRITERIA AND WOULD HAVE AN APP THERE. OKAY. MM-HMM . OKAY. I JUST HAVE A CLARIFICATION. SO THERE'S THE OTHER FENCE THAT YOU WANTED TO BUILD AT THE OTHER OPENING. THEY COULD COME BACK AT A LATER DATE FOR SOMETHING THERE. YEAH. BUT, OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE WE TAKE THE VOTE? ALRIGHT, THEY'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION. PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? PLEASE SAY NO. OKAY. IT APPEARS THAT, UM, WE HAVE DECIDED TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE THIS REQUEST UNANIMOUSLY, UH, DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE MEANS YOU COULD COME BACK WITH A SLIGHTLY ALTERED DESIGN AND SEE IF THAT WORKED BETTER FOR US. AND BECAUSE YOU GOT A DENIAL, YOU CAN ALSO GO TO THE, UH, CITY PLAN COMMISSION TO APPEAL. BUT THEY WILL VOTE SOLELY ON WHETHER OR NOT WE JUDGED IN ERROR. SO THEY WILL LOOK AT THE, THE SAME THINGS WE DID THE, THE PUBLISHED AND ACTED CRITERIA. UM, BUT AS WE, I HOPE WE HAVE NOW MADE CLEAR, YOU CAN GO BACK TO STAFF AND AS LONG AS YOU REBUILD IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS, THEY CAN DO THAT AS ROUTINE MAINTENANCE. YOU JUST CAN'T BUILD IT TALLER THAN THE, THAN WHAT WAS THERE WHEN IT WOULD LANDMARK. OKAY. BUT IF YOU REALLY STILL WANNA DO THAT, YOU COULD TRY TO COME UP WITH A DESIGN OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK. IT'S THOSE MOVING FORWARD IS YOUR CHOICE. OKAY. AND WE DO APPRECIATE THAT YOU TOOK ON THIS HOUSE KNOWING THAT SOMEONE LEFT A LEGACY OF KEEP IT THE WAY I HAD IT , YOU KNOW, I CAN SEE HOW SOME PEOPLE WENT LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S GREAT THAT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WANNA LIVE IN THAT AND KEEP IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. OKAY. NUMBER SEVEN. ALRIGHT. CHRISTINA PEREZ ON BEHALF OF STAFF D 7 13 10 WEST DAVID STREET COUNCIL, DISTRICT ONE, WINKA HEIGHTS, HISTORIC DISTRICT CO 8 26 0 0 0 0 9 2, REQUEST A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PAINT THE MURAL ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BRICK STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PAINT [01:50:01] A MURAL ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BRICK STRUCTURE BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE, WITH THE FINDING OF FACT THAT THE MURAL DOES NOT FIT WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE DESIGNING COLORS ARE NOT APPROPRIATE TO THE DISTRICT AND WOULD HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE DISTRICT. THE PROPOSED WORK IS THEREFORE INCONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERIA. SECTION 51 P DASH 87 17 3 B ONE H CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1 G SIX C ROMAN I FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR GUIDELINES FOR REHABILITATION. THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PAINT A MURAL ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BRICK STRUCTURE BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE PER ORDINANCE. HOWEVER, THE TASK FORCE NOTES THAT MURALS ARE CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE IN OAK CLIPP, THAT A SMALLER PORTION OF THE BRICK WAS ALREADY PAINTED AND THAT THE MURAL LOCATION IS ON THE ALLEY SIDE OF THE BUILDING. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. AND WE DO HAVE ONE REGISTERED SPEAKER FOR THIS CASE, AND THAT IS LENNY VALDERRAMA. YOU HAVE TWO, YOU HAVE TWO SPEAKERS, YOU SAY? NOT THIS MORNING. UH, TWO SPEAKERS OF . OKAY. OH, YES, PARSKY. WELL, IF I COULD READ THAT WOULD REALLY HELP, BUT, OKAY. THANK YOU. SO, UH, YOU'RE GONNA GO FIRST. WE NEED YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND YOUR PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH. YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY RAISE YOUR HAND BACK. . UM, I'M SETTING UP THE SLIDESHOW IF THAT'S OKAY. UH, WE'RE GONNA SCREEN SHARE A LITTLE . OKAY. YEAH, I, THAT'S, THAT'S IT. ADRIAN'S, UM, IT'S UNDER BARRETT MADAM CHAIR. YES. WHILE THEY'RE SETTING THAT UP, UH, COMMISSIONER PREZI ASKED ME ABOUT THE BOARDED IN WINDOWS AND DOORS. MM-HMM . SO THERE WERE NO CAS DONE, UH, BACK THEN, BUT I DID SEE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN BOARDED UP ALL THE WAY TO 2011. UM, AND EVEN IN, I FOUND A PICTURE, I BELIEVE IT'S OH EIGHT, WHERE THAT FRONT WINDOW WAS ACTUALLY BOARDED UP AS WELL. SO NO CAS BUT SOMEWHERE AROUND, MAYBE EVEN BEFORE 2011, THEY'VE BEEN BOARDED UP. ALRIGHTY, THANK YOU. SO DID I GET YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS YET? MY NAME IS LENNY VAL DRAMA. I LIVE AT 1 9 5 WEST DAVIS STREET. UH, AND I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE EXISTING MURAL AT 1310 WEST DAVIS STREET. AND, AND YOU'RE TRUTHFUL AND I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. . OKAY. THANK YOU. SO YOU HAVE, UH, THREE MINUTES TO GO AHEAD AND START TELLING US STUFF ABOUT YOUR, UM, YOUR APPLICATION TO HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT'S PLAN. AWESOME. UH, I AM THE ONE WHO COMMISSIONED THE ENGAGEMENT, UH, WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE LOCAL BUSINESS AND ALSO THE PROPERTY OWNER. UM, THIS IS WHAT THE BUILDING LOOKED LIKE ON THE WEST SIDE, A SECONDARY WALL. PRIOR TO THE MURAL'S INSTALLATION, UH, WE DID PUT THE MURAL WITHIN THE YELLOW DOTTED LINE. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S MOSTLY BLANK MIS MASONRY, UH, WITH SOME VISIBLE SURFACE VARIATION ON THE LOWER SECTION WITHIN THAT YELLOW BOX. AND THIS IS THE MURAL. THIS IS THE ENGAGEMENT MURAL. UH, I DID, UH, COMMISSION A LOCAL OAK CLIFF BASED ARTIST FOR THIS PROJECT, AND IT WAS VERY, UH, SITE SPECIFIC, MEANING WE KEPT THE MURAL OR WE KEPT THE OVERALL STRUCTURE AND BUILDING, UH, DESIGN IN MIND WHEN DEVELOPING IT. UH, WE ACTUALLY TOOK THE COLOR PALETTE FROM THE EXISTING NATURAL COLORS AND TONES FROM THE BUILDING ITSELF, UM, TOP TO BOTTOM. I WANTED THIS TO BE SOMETHING THAT ADDED TO THE VISUAL, UM, LANDSCAPE, UH, THAT ALSO WAS GROUNDED IN OAK CLIFF'S CULTURAL AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT, UH, WHILE ALSO REFLECTING THE IDENTITY AND THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF THE COMMUNITY AROUND IT. UM, THIS IS THE PHOTO OF THE FULL BUILDING. AS YOU CAN SEE. WE KEPT THE MURAL, UH, CONFINED TO THE LOWER PORTION OF THE WALL, UH, KIND OF ALLOWING FOR SOME VISUAL CONFINEMENT AS WELL AS ALLOWING FOR THE ARCHITECTURAL HIERARCHY OF THE BUILDING TO STAY THE SAME. UM, WE DID HAVE PERMISSION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER, WHICH ALLOWED US TO DEVELOP IT AT THE PROPERTY LEVEL AS WELL. NEXT SLIDE. UM, IN CONCLUSION, THERE WERE NO ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES ALTERED. THERE WERE NO STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO THE BUILDING. UH, THE MURAL IS A SURFACE LEVEL TREATMENT THAT CAN BE REVERSED THROUGH REPEATING IF NEEDED. WE'RE ALSO OPEN TO ANY MAINTENANCE CONDITIONS RECOMMENDED BY THE COMMITTEE. UM, AT ITS CORE, THIS WORK IS INTENDED AS ADJUSTER OF CARE FOR OAKLY CONTRIBUTING ARTISTIC VALUE, UH, THAT REFLECTS OUR COMMUNITY WHILE KEEPING THE SPACE FLEXIBLE FOR FUTURE USE. UM, THIS PIECE IS ROOTED IN CONNECTION AND MY HOPE IS THAT IT ADDS TO PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCE BY BECOMING SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN INTERACT WITH AND ASSOCIATE WITH MEANINGFUL EVENTS. UM, I'M COMMITTED TO WORKING WITHIN THE PRESERVATION GUIDELINES AND I'M OPEN TO ANY REASONABLE CONDITIONS. UH, I RESPECTFULLY ASK, UH, FOR YOUR APPROVAL. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND OF COURSE, WE'LL HAVE QUESTIONS. UM, MR. POKY, ARE YOU ALSO [01:55:01] GONNA SPEAK AND I WILL NEED YOU TO DO THE SAME THING. NAME, ADDRESS, PROMISE YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH. I, MY NAME IS BARR POLSKY. MY ADDRESS IS 5 2 1 MEADOW WOOD LANE, PE, TEXAS. AND, UH, YOUR FRIEND, UH, DELAINE, HER VERY TRUTHFUL FRIEND. UH, VERY TRUTHFUL FRIEND, AND I AM AS WELL, ALSO, UH, VERY TRUTHFUL ABOUT THAT. UM, SO YEAH, UH, LENNY ASKED ME HERE, UH, TO KIND OF ADD SOME, UH, SOME EXPERT INSIGHT INTO, OH, SORRY. DIDN'T SEEM TO UPDATE ALL THIS. YEAH, I NEED TO RESHARE IT, UH, TO LINDA, THE WOOD PERSPECTIVE. UH, JUST A A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON MYSELF. I'M A TRAINED URBAN PLANNER. I STAY AT THE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LONDON IN, UH, LONDON. AND, UH, LET'S START, UH, BARTLET SCHOOL OF PLANNING. UM, I HAD A LOT OF LIVED EXPERIENCE, UM, DOING, UH, THE VAST HISTORY OF LONDON AND VARIOUS CITIES ACROSS THE WORLD. UH, BOTH TRYING TO MATCH THE HISTORY THEREOF AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE CURRENTLY AND THEIR NEED FOR NEW PROPERTIES, NEW, UH, NEW ART INSTALLATIONS AS SUCH, UM, WE'VE SEEN HISTORY AND THE MODERN SPACE HAS HISTORY OF, WELL ACROSS THE MOST CITIES IN THE WORLD, UH, LEAST THE MAJOR ONES. UH, FOR INSTANCE, THE GREAT COURT IN THAT BRITISH EXAM OR, UH, 2, 9 5 IN NEW YORK CITY. UM, THESE WERE ADDED, UH, ACTUALLY ON TOP OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURES, UM, LITERALLY BUILT EITHER IN OR ON, UH, WITHOUT ACTUALLY DAMAGING THE PROPERTY. AND MURALS FIT INTO THAT SAME, UH, SAME SPACE, UH, EXCEPT THEY'RE FAR LESS, UH, INVASIVE AND FRANKLY ARE MORE REFLECTIVE OF COMMUNITY AT LARGE. UH, THERE'S PUBLIC MURAL PROGRAMS ACROSS MOST MAJOR CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES, INCLUDING DALLAS, SUCH AS PRIVATE PARK PROGRAM, UM, WHERE MURALS ARE EITHER COMMISSIONED OR, UH, PRESERVED IN THEIR CURRENT, IN THEIR CURRENT STANDING. UM, AND OTHER CITIES SUCH AS LOS ANGELES AND NEW YORK ALSO, UH, DO THIS PHILADELPHIA. UH, MANY OF THESE MURALS ARE NOT AS SMALL AS ONE THAT MANY AS BEFORE, UH, BUT CAN BE UPWARDS OF FIVE, SIX STORIES IN MANY WAYS, MUCH MORE VISIBLE THE COMMUNITY. UH, SO THIS ONE IS MUCH MORE, UM, IT'S MUCH MORE CONTAINED, IT'S MUCH MORE SPECIFIC AND MUCH MORE DEDICATED LOCAL COMMUNITY, UH, WHICH ONE IS APART. UM, MURALS THEMSELVES, UH, ARE REALLY AN EXPRESS, UH, ARTISTIC EXPRESSION OF COMMUNITY AS I SEE IT. UM, AND THEY'RE REALLY A GENERATIONAL CONTRIBUTION. LENNY HERSELF IS, IS MOVING TO, UH, GET MARRIED AND LIVES IN COMMUNITY AT LARGE AND IS A CONTRIBUTOR. UH, ACTUALLY MY TRAINER INCLUDED MY PHYSICAL TRAINER. AND, UH, IT, IT, AND EVERY DAY I, I TALK WITH LENNY. WE, WE TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH THERE IS IN DISH PARTS THERE, HOW MUCH THERE IS GOING ON IN NETTE HEIGHTS, AND, UH, THE FACT THAT, UH, LENNY CHOSE TO PUT THIS MURAL IN THIS SPECIFIC LOCATION WITH THIS, UH, REFLECTION OF HER DEDICATION TO THAT COMMUNITY. UM, AND, UH, I JUST THINK THAT A CERTIFICATE OF PERFECTNESS WOULD BE, UH, NOT JUST IN KEEPING WITH DALLAS AND MURALS THAT ARE CURRENTLY EXIST IN ALL ACROSS THE CITY, BUT ALSO WITH, UH, THE CULTURE OF MURALS FOR THE PAST A HUNDRED YEARS THAT HAVE BEEN PLACED IN MOST AMERICAN CITIES. SO, UH, HOPE THAT IT. THANK YOU. THAT IS YOUR TIME, SIR. WELL, THAT WAS TIME. PERFECTLY. YOU'RE AN EXPERT AT THAT. I WOULD LIKE A LITTLE ELABORATION, UM, LENNY ON WHAT YOU, SOMETHING YOU SAID EARLIER, COULD YOU GIVE ME SOME SPECIFICS ABOUT HIM, ? COULD YOU GIVE ME SOME SPECIFIC FURTHER INFORMATION ON HOW YOU SEE THIS PARTICULAR MURAL AS REFLECTING THE HERITAGE AND CULTURE AND LIVED EXPERIENCE OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD? WHAT IS THE, THE RELATIONSHIP THERE WITH DIANE? YEAH, UM, [02:00:01] THAT WAS THAT SIMPLE. YES. . . GOT YOU. UM, YEAH, I THINK PART OF WHAT MAKES SOCL, UH, A PLACE THAT YOU WANNA KEEP VISITING IT'S IS PEOPLE AND THE ARTISTIC VALUE, UM, THAT HAS BEEN BUILDING FOR DECADES. UM, AND I KNOW THAT THE ARTIST THAT I CHOSE, UH, IS BASED IN NO CLIFF AND I WANTED TO SPECIFICALLY HAVE SOMEONE THAT REPRESENTED, UH, AND CARED FOR AND HAS DONE OTHER ROLES IN THE AREA. UM, AS WELL AS I WAS LOOKING FOR A SPOT THAT, UH, ADDED VALUE TO NOT ONLY THE PEOPLE AROUND IT, BUT THE BUSINESSES AROUND IT. UM, SO I TALKED TO SEVERAL, UH, BUSINESSES AND I WANTED THEM TO BE AS, UH, PSYCHED FOR THE PROJECT AND I BENEFITED, UM, AS I WAS, UM, INCLUDING THE, THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD WITNESS IT AS WELL. ALRIGHT. I, I, I HAVE SOME, SOME DIFFICULTY SEEING THE SPECIFICS OF THE DESIGN NECESSARILY GOING WITH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD JUST BECAUSE OF THE, THE ARCHITECTURE AND STUFF, BUT THAT'S JUST ME. UH, WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE? UH, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? UM, WERE EITHER YOU OR THE PROPHET AND AWARE THAT THIS IS THE CITY OF HISTORIC DISTRICT? NO, I WAS NOT AWARE. UH, AND I WOULD'VE DEFINITELY DONE THIS PROCESS PRIOR TO IT IF I WASN'T WITH, BUT THE PROP, THE PROP. DID YOU GET PERMISSION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER BEFORE YOU PAINTED? UH, SO I GOT PERMISSION FROM THE LOCAL BUSINESS, UH, WHO HAD REACHED OUT TO THE PROPERTY OWNER ABOUT IT. UM, I HAD DID NOT DIRECTLY TALK TO THEM, UH, UNTIL AFTER. SO THE LOCAL BUSINESS THAT'S IN THERE AND THE PROPERTY OWNER MUST HAVE KNOWN IT WAS A HISTORIC DISTRICT? NO, NO, SHE WAS NOT AWARE. SO THE PROPERTY DOESN'T KNOW THAT THAT BUILDING'S IN WINNETKA HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, SHE DID NOT, SHE WAS NOT AWARE THAT THAT SPECIFIC WALL WOULD BE AN ISSUE. UH, WE, WE WENT TO MEET, UH, CAN YOU GET TO THE MICROPHONE? YEAH, SORRY. WHEN WE WENT TO, UH, MEET WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER, UH, AGAIN, THE LOCAL BUSINESS HAD TALKED TO THE PROPERTY OWNER, WE WENT TO GO MEET WITH THE, UH, WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER AFTER, ONCE THE, WE WERE GIVEN KIND A NOTICE, UM, AND I WAS HELPING LENNY WITH THIS, UM, WE TO GO ONE-ON-ONE TO DISCUSS WITH THE A, HE, HE SEEMED AWARE OF THE NATURE OF THE PROPERTY, BUT HE WAS PRETTY, UH, SEEMED SUBSTANTIALLY UNAWARE OF, OF THE ACTUAL LIKE, WELL YEAH, IT'S IN MAN NECK HEIGHTS. NECK HEIGHTS WAS GREAT. NECK HEIGHT, NECK HEIGHT, STATES BOULEVARD, SEEN CHANGE. MY FATHER OWNED THE PROPERTY, BUT HE DIDN'T SEEM TO, UH, GRASP, UH, IT, IT THE, WHETHER IT FELL INTO A SPECIFIC SORT DISTRICT AND UH, AND THE NATURE OF WHETHER THAT AFFECTED THE SIDES OF THE BUILDING ITSELF. AND HE ACTUALLY OWNS THE PROPERTY, BUT HE LIVES, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, MORE TOWARDS FORT WORTH. SO HE'S BEEN OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING AND KIND OF, HE HASN'T NECESSARILY, UH, BEEN HIMSELF A PRESENT COMMUNITY. THAT'S WHERE HE'S KIND OF DEFERRED BOTH BUSINESS THAT, UH, THAT CURRENTLY OCCUPIES THE SPACE BELOW. THE REASON I BRING THIS UP IS IF THEY WOULD'VE REALIZED IT WAS AN HISTORIC DISTRICT, THEY WOULD'VE ASKED BEFORE INSTEAD OF AFTER. IT WOULD BE A LOT EASIER TO DO. OH MY GOSH, WOULD IT EVER BE SO, AND WE WOULD'VE TOLD THEM THEN THAT THIS MURALS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS NEED TO BE LOOKED AT VERY CAREFULLY. THEIR CONTENT HAS TO KIND OF CELEBRATE OR TALK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. FOR INSTANCE, THERE WAS A, UM, A MURAL IN JUNIORS HEIGHTS HISTORIC THAT WAS RECENTLY APPROVED AND IT WAS A TROLLEY AND THAT'S A TROLLEYS STOP NEIGHBORHOOD. THE TROLLEYS ARE THE REASON THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS THERE AND THEY CELEBRATE THE TROLLEY. SO THAT WAS APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A TROLLEY MURAL IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I BELIEVE THERE'S ALSO A MURAL IN WIN AND HEIGHTS THAT ALSO CELEBRATES THE HISTORY OF WIN AND HEIGHTS. SO WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT IF THIS MURAL IS APPROPRIATE, DOES IT CELEBRATE THE HISTORY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD? AND THAT'S WHAT OUR CHARGE WOULD BE TODAY. THAT IS COMMISSIONER ANDERSON. THIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN IN THE FAMILY SINCE AT LEAST 1999 ACCORDING TO DCA. AND IT WENT INTO A STATE IN 2003. SO IT'S BEEN A, THEY'VE BEEN, THEY WERE LONG TIME. THEY, THEY'VE BEEN THE OWNERS AT LEAST BACK TO 99. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UH, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. YEAH, I'M GONNA TAKE A LEFT TURN WITH JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS. UM, WHAT, UH, WHAT PAINT WAS USED? WHAT, WHAT WAS YOUR PAINT? UH, WE USED EXTERIOR PAINT FOR THE BACKGROUND AEROSOL PAINT FOR THE OKAY. AN AEROSOL PAINT AND A LATEX LATEX PAINT. OKAY. AND A PRIMER [02:05:01] WAS PUT ON BEFORE THAT. WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE THERE, WHICH ACTUALLY THAT THE WALL THAT NOT TOUCH, SORRY, MOST OF THE WALL IS NOT TOUCHED BY, UH, THE ACTUAL PAINT THAT WAS APPLIED, UH, IN THE MURAL. NO, ACTUALLY THERE WAS A PREVIOUS, WE SAW GHOSTING. UH, IT, IT, IT MAY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND NOT MUCH THERE, BUT WE SAW SOME FAINT GHOSTING. UM, I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS, I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS OPAQUE ON THERE, IT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE, BUT, UH, BUT THERE WAS REMNANTS IN GHOSTING OF THAT. SO I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF. THE REASON I ASK, I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF PAINT IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU PAINT OVER BRICK AND YOU USE TYPICAL STORE BOUGHT PAINTS OFF YOUR SHELF, OFF HOME DEPOT'S, WHEREVER IT MAY BE, YOU'RE GONNA BE SEALING THE PAINT AND YOU'RE GONNA BE SEALING THE GROUT AND THE WATER THAT CAN GET IN THE BRICKS AND THEN IT HAS TO WANT TO GET OUT, CAN START SPALLING BRICK AND ACCELERATE THE, THE ISSUES WITH, WITH IT, THERE'S CERTAIN, CERTAIN TYPES OF PAINT THAT CAN BE USED. THERE'S KIND PAINTS, MA MASONRY SILICATES THAT WILL BOND INTO MASONRY BETTER. BUT WHEN WE'RE USING, SUCH AS WHAT I WOULD EXPECT OF THE TYPICAL PAINT THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE SPEAKING OF, THEN WHAT WE'RE CREATING IS A, A, A HIGH RISK DAMAGED AREA THAT CAN START SPING THE BRICK. UM, AND THAT'S WHY IT'S USUALLY, UH, FROWNED UPON, WHETHER IT'S MURALS OR NOT SOMETIMES TO START PAINTING MASONRY. AND THEN, SO THAT WAS MY QUESTION ON, ON THAT, SO I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF THAT, FOR THE RECORD, UH, GOT SOME QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. UM, I'M GONNA GO DOWN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ROAD, . UM, WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE, UM, NOT, NOT ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, BUT, UM, UH, BUT CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. UM, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE COUPLE HERE, BUT I WAS WONDERING TOO IF THERE WAS ANY THOUGHT, UH, IN THE, AS THE SIGN HAD DEVELOPED, UH, LIKE THE, THE, THE CHOICE FOR THE FONT, FOR INSTANCE, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT TIED THAT BACK TO OAK CLIFF OR HISTORY OF THE BUILDING IN PARTICULAR, OR, YOU KNOW, ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL MEANING BEYOND WILLIAM, MARY, ME. I MEAN, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH. UM, OBVIOUSLY THE COLOR SCHEME WAS VERY SPECIFIC TO THE BUILDING, AND I WANTED IT TO MATCH THE BUILDING, UH, FIRST AND FOREMOST. UM, BUT IN TERMS OF THE STYLE, UM, I DO THINK, ESPECIALLY HERE IN DALLAS, PART OF WHAT MAKES OUR MURALS AND LIKE KIND OF NOT PLANNED, UM, ARTISTIC, UM, WALLS, UH, IS STREET ART. UH, I WANTED IT TO REPRESENT THAT DEEP HISTORY, UM, AND KIND OF UPLIFT AND REFINE AND OFFER, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, ARTISTIC VERSION OF, OF THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO ADD, UM, AS FAR AS THE CONTENT, UH, WE HAVE TO, WE DO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT, UH, THERE IS A FIRST AMENDMENT. SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY, UH, LOOK AT CONTENT, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT DESIGN AND WE CAN LOOK AT PLACEMENT. THERE'S ONE OTHER POINT I WANTED TO MAKE TOO. UM, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT THIS IS A PIECE OF ART, IT IS, UM, CHANGEABLE. I MEAN, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT AT THE VERY BEGINNING TOO, WAS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S ONLY A SURFACE, UH, UH, APPLIED TREATMENT THAT IT CAN BE, IT CAN BE REMOVED OR IT COULD BE PAINTED OVER OR, YOU KNOW, UH, BASICALLY A, A, UH, A NEW EVOLUTION OF, OF, OF THAT ART. UH, BUT THAT IT IS A TEMPORARY INSTALLATION. YEAH. AS MUCH AS I LIKE HOLD VALUE TO IT, UM, I OBVIOUSLY IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE. IT IS FOR THE CITY, IT IS THE CITIES. UH, IT'S NOT MINE. AS SOON AS IT'S ON THE WALL, IT CEASES TO BECOME MINE. UM, HOWEVER, I DO SEE VALUE IN IT AS, UH, A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO MEET AND SHARE EXPERIENCES. UM, I KNOW JUST BECAUSE ONE AREA DID IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS AREA NEEDS TO DO IT. UH, BUT IN DEEP EL I TOOK A PHOTO AT THAT MURAL, THE MARRY ME WALL, UH, SIX YEARS AGO WITH MY PARTNER, UM, AND WAS INSPIRED BY IT. AND I KNOW PLENTY OF PEOPLE PHOTOS THERE POSTING ME ON INSTAGRAM, SHARING IT, AND, AND REALLY EXPERIENCING THE CITY, UH, AS PART OF THE LIKE, ARTISTIC, UH, SIDE OF THE CITY AS WELL. SO, THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WITH A QUESTION? 'CAUSE IF NOT, WE HAVE REACHED A POINT WHERE WE'RE GONNA NEED A OH, COMMISSIONER HENNA HOSA. YES. UH, FOR THE APPLICANT, I WANTED, UH, THEM TO KNOW THAT I INITIALLY SUPPORTED, [02:10:01] UH, THIS, UH, MURAL. HOWEVER, LISTENING TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, UH, THEY ARE RIGHT. IT'S, IT'S NOT, UH, INDICATIVE OF HISTORIC OAK CLIFF. UH, BUT I'M THINKING, AND WITHOUT, WELL, I DON'T MIND MAKING A POSSIBLE SUGGESTION THAT IF YOU, I, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE WANTING TO KEEP IT FOR YOUR PERSONAL, UH, PLEASURE, BUT MAYBE IF YOU GOT RID OF THE MARRY ME AND LEFT IT, LIKE, UH, WILL YOU VISIT OAK CLIFF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND GOT RID OF THE, GOT RID OF THE, THE VALENTINE HEART AND PUT THAT AS A CHECK MARK EMOJI OR WHATEVER, MAYBE THAT WOULD WORK. UH, AND BE MORE AGREEABLE, MAYBE. ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT. THAT'S A VERY CLEVER IDEA. COMMISSIONER , AND I WAS LIKE, WILL YOU LARRY OAK CLIFF? WILL YOU LOVE OAK CLIFF ? IF, IF, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I MAY. YEAH, JUST MAKE SURE IT'S IN THE MICROPHONE. SO COMMISSIONER, BECAUSE SHE'S NOT HERE, UM, PART OF OAK CLIFF IS, IS ITS HISTORY, OBVIOUSLY, AND, AND, AND EXPRESSING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, A SIGN SAYING, YES, OAK CLIFF, YES, YOU CAN PUT THE WORDS OAK CLIFF ON, ON EVERY SURFACE THAT DENOTES THE FACT THAT IT IS IN FACT OAK CLIFF. UH, BUT PART OF OAK CLIFF IS, IS NOT JUST BUILDINGS, PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE CURRENTLY IN BUILDING HISTORY, DOESN'T START WITH A HUNDRED YEARS AGO OR 50 YEARS AGO. IT STARTS WITH ALSO TODAY AND MOVING FORWARD. UH, AND PART OF THAT IS THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF ART TODAY DON'T, NOT JUST REFLECTING WHAT IT WAS JUST BEFORE, BUT ALSO NOW THAT'S A REFLECTION OF THE HISTORY THAT PEOPLE WILL SEE IN 10, 15, 20 15, HOWEVER LONG YEARS. AND, AND SO HAVING THIS WALL, WHICH DOES SAY MARRY ME, YES, IT, IT WOULD REFER TO THE FACT THAT IT IS A CLIP, BUT IN MANY WAYS YOU'D BE DETRACTING POTENTIALLY FROM THE, UH, AS, AS LENNY EXPERIENCED WITH THE MARY ME WALLEN DEVELOP, WHICH IS STILL THERE IS, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE GO BACK TO BECAUSE, NOT BECAUSE IT SAYS DEB BEUM, BUT BECAUSE IT SAYS MARY. AND I THINK THAT CONTRIBUTION IN AND OF ITSELF, PEOPLE WILL VISIT THOSE MURALS BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT MESSAGES THAN JUST THE NAME OF THE TOWN THAT THEY'RE IN. ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. IF COMMISSIONERS ASK ALL THEIR QUESTIONS, BUT NOW IT'S NOT TIME FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE A MOTION. I HAVE A MOTION. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER RENO. UM, IN, UH, MATTER OF, UH, 1310 WEST DAVIS STREET, ALSO KNOWN AS, UM, UH, COA 26 DASH 92, UM, THAT WE APPROVE THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED, UM, WITH A FINDING OF FACT THAT MURALS ARE CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE TO, YOU KNOW, CLIP AND A SMALLER PORTION OF THE BRICK HAS ALREADY BEEN PAINTED. AND THE MURAL ON THAT IS ON THE ALLEY SIDE OF THE BUILDING. UM, SO IT IS CONSISTENT WITH A PRESERVATION CRITERIA. SECTION 51 P DASH 87 DASH ONE, SEVEN DASH THREE, UM, B ONE H OF THE CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4 5 0 1, UM, G SIX C ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES, AND THE SECRETARY OF, UM, INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR REHABILITATION FOR DISTRICT AND NEIGHBOR. SECOND. UH, OKAY. UH, I HEARD COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERG'S VOICE FIRST, RIGHT CLOSER. I THINK YOU WERE ON TIME. SO COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER HAS SECONDED THIS. ARE THERE ANY FURTHER COMMENTARY? YEAH, I'D LIKE TO. COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. UM, I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. I THINK I'M GONNA FOLLOW THE, UM, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND THE, THE, I THINK I'M GOING TO LISTEN TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TASK FORCE AND BOTH DENYING WITHOUT PREJUDICE. I, I THINK THIS IS A NICE MURAL. I THINK IT, UH, UNFORTUNATELY GOT PUT ON A WALL THAT IS PROTECTED BY THE ORDINANCE. AND THE ORDINANCE I THINK IS WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT, THAT IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR THIS. AND NEITHER DOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD TASK FORCE THAT IS REPRESENTED BY LOCAL NEIGHBORS AND NEITHER DOES STAFF. AND SO I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS. I LIKE THE MURAL A LOT. I'M LOOKING AT MY SCREEN. I HAVE ART THAT'S JUST ROLLING ON MY SCREEN. I'M AN ARTIST MYSELF. I JUST THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE. GOT PUT ON A WALL THAT'S PROTECTED, THAT'S IN ORDINANCE. UM, MR. ANDERSON, I ALSO WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE [02:15:01] MOTION FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS THAT COMMISSIONER COME SAID. IT'S REALLY NOT APPROPRIATE TO WINNETKA HEIGHTS. IT'S DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THESE ARE VERY SPECIAL NEIGHBORHOODS AND THEY HAVE SPECIAL CONDITIONS, AND I GIVE THAT AS A NICE PIECE OF ART AND MEAN DEEP DEVELOP. IT WILL BE FINE BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IN AN HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD, IT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING MORE CONTEXTUALLY IMPORTANT TO THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER. I'LL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION BECAUSE I THINK, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION BASED ON THE CONTENT, NOT THE CHARACTER. AND I THINK THE CHARACTER OF THE MURAL DOES ACTUALLY REFLECT A LITTLE BIT OF THAT STREET AND MIX OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE THERE. AND SO I WOULD SUPPORT THE, INCLUDE ALL OF YOU OUT AS IT'S SHOWN. ALL RIGHT. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. I I, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I'M SUPPORTING IT HERE OR NOT, SO I HAVE TO INSTALL A MINUTE, PAUL. I THINK BECAUSE WHAT COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER SAID, I THINK IS, IS VERY INSIGHTFUL. UM, RATHER THAN THE CONTENT. I, I JUST THINK THAT IF IT WASN'T BLACK AND RED AND HOT IN IT WAS THROWN DOWN, IT WOULD FIT THE NEIGHBORHOOD BETTER AESTHETICALLY. I KNOW I'M NOT CRITICIZING THE ARTIST. I'M NOT AN ARTIST JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THE BUILDINGS AREN'T GENERALLY THOSE COLORS. SO I, I'M STILL THINKING. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY? WELL, I THINK COMMISSIONER OSI, UM, I, I WILL NOT BE SM TO MOTION. UM, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT, UH, MURALS ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS ARE NECESSARILY APPROPRIATE. AND I THINK THAT IF WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS, WE'LL JUST ALL OF THESE BUILDINGS WILL BE COVERED WITH MURALS AT ONE POINT. SO, UM, THAT'S HOW I STAND ON THAT. BUT WE REMIND COMMISSIONER PREKI THAT NOTHING SETS A PRECEDENT. WE COULD ALL VOTE YES ON THIS MURAL AND NEVER LET ANOTHER MURAL GO ON ANOTHER BUILDING OR ALL ETERNITY. THAT IS TRUE, BUT IT WILL THEN BRING MORE REQUESTS. IT WILL, YOU ARE RIGHT. AND WE WILL REVIEW THEM. ALRIGHT THEN, IF EVERYBODY HAS HAD TIME TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ALL THOSE OPPOSED PLEASE SAY NO. NO. SO WE WILL OBVIOUSLY HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE. I HOPE ELAINE'S READY FOR HER MAIN JOB HERE. SOMETIMES. DISTRICT ONE COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS? NO. DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY? YES. DISTRICT THREE. COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? YES. DISTRICT FOUR. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? YES. DISTRICT SIX. COMMISSIONER HOSA? YES. I DECIDED TO CHANGE MY MIND TO YES. DISTRICT SEVEN. COMMISSIONER SMITH? NO. DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER RONANKI. DISTRICT NINE COMMISSIONER RENAULT? YES. DISTRICT 11 COMMISSIONER AND TORONTO. HOLD ON. OH NO. DISTRICT 12 COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER? YES. DISTRICT 13 COMMISSIONER POSI? NO. DISTRICT 14. COMMISSIONER HARPER? NO. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? NO. AND COMMISSIONER RES? YES. OKAY. HOW DID WE COME OUT? I BELIEVE WE HAVE A RULE AGAINST WHAT HAPPENS IF WE TIE . MATT . PLEASE CONFIRM THE RULE OF A TIE VOTE IF YOU WERE TO, IT DOES. WE HAD SEVEN SEVEN MAJORITY YESES PASS. IT HAS TO BE A MAJORITY TO PASS, THEREFORE THAT MOTION FAILED. CORRECT? CORRECT. ESSENTIALLY. OKAY. IF SOMEONE MAKES THE OPPOSITE MOTION, DO WE THINK IT WILL ALSO FAIL HER TO CUT? I SUS WELL, WE CAN, AND I SUSPECT WE MIGHT TURN UP WITH THAT. OR DOES SOMEBODY HAVE A MOTION THAT SOMEHOW MEETS IN THE MIDDLE WITH A SLIGHT ALTERATION OR SOMETHING CONDITION? WHATEVER YOU WANNA GO WITH SOMEBODY MAKE A MOTION. I WILL MAKE A MOTION. SURE. OH, TURN YOUR MIC ON. THEY CAN HEAR YOUR PHONE. I NEED SOME CLARITY ON ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. CERTAINLY JUST REWORDING IT TO SAY THE OPPOSITE. ISN'T THAT VOTING ON THE SAME THING THAT WE JUST DID? WHICH IS KIND OF PROHIBITED UNDER ROBERT'S RULES TO DO WHAT YOU JUST SAID WOULD BE, BUT IF THEY'RE MAKING A MOTION TO TWEAK SOMETHING ABOUT THE MOTION, IT MAKES IT SUBSTANTIVELY DIFFERENT, THEN THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED. 'CAUSE IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT MOTION. SO WHAT MOTION? I'LL FIND ANOTHER MOTION. GO AHEAD. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, IN THE CASE OF CA 26 DASH 1496 A 1310 [02:20:01] WEST DAVIS STREET, I RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH CONDITION. THE CONDITION IS THAT THE MURAL IS TO STAY UP FOR ONE YEAR, AND AT THAT TIME IT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED OR REPAINTED WITH A NEW MURAL WITH, AND THAT NEW MURAL WOULD COME TO YOU FOR APPROVAL? YES. THE NEW MURAL WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO THIS BOARD FOR APPROVAL. SO WE'RE GIVING YOU A ONE YEAR REPRIEVE, BUT IT EITHER NEEDS TO BE REMOVED, EITHER YOU NEED TO COME BACK TO THE PROCESS THAT IT WILL BE REMOVED OR NEEDS TO BE REPLACED WITH THE MURAL THAT'S APPROVED BY THIS COMMITTEE. COMMISSION CLARIFICATION ON THAT? MAYBE THE CLARIFICATION IS JUST WHEN IT GETS, COMES BACK AFTER A YEAR, UM, THAT I GUESS AT THAT TIME WE WOULD SEE IF THE MURAL NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY REMOVED AND A MORE, UH, MINERAL SILICATE BASED BONDING PAINT COULD BE USED IN ITS PLACE. AND I GUESS WE CAN MAKE THAT DETERMINATION AFTER THAT YEAR. LET, LET ME CLARIFY. I, AFTER ONE YEAR, THEY NEED TO COME BACK TO TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS BY WHICH IT WILL BE REMOVED CHEMICALLY THE PROCESS OR APPLY FOR A NEW MURAL THAT WE COULD APPROVE. SO THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE ENDED UP ALLOWING THE OAK FIFTH METHODIST CHURCH STEPS WHERE WE SAID THEY WERE AN ARC INSTALLATION WITH A LIMITED TIME PERIOD BEFORE THEY WOULD COME UP WITH REVIEW. REVIEW, COULD ALLOW AN EXTENSION REVIEW, COULD REQUIRE ITS MOVEMENT, MOVEMENT REMOVAL REVIEW. COULD SAY PAINT A DIFFERENT MURAL. IT HAS AT LEAST THREE OPTIONS. AND I WANNA CLARIFY, WAS COMMISSIONER REEDS A SECOND ON THAT? OKAY. . OKAY. I WAS WONDERING WHAT IF YOU WERE TRYING TO ESCAPE, BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT. SO, MA MADAM CHAIRMAN, CAN I HAVE ONE MORE CLARIFICATION THAT, THAT, UH, WE MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THAT IF, UH, IF THERE IS NO CONTACT, UH, WITHIN 30 DAYS OF, OF THE ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY, THAT IT WOULD THEN BE CONSIDERED GRAFFITI AND THE BUILDING OWNER WOULD HAVE TO, UH, WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE BEING GRAFFITI AND THE BUILDING OWNER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE IT, UH, TAKEN CARE OF AT THEIR, AT THEIR SOLE COST AND EXPENSE. THAT HAS TO BE AGREED UPON BY THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THEM THAT THEY DID. SO I, AT THE, AT THE END OF ONE YEAR, IT WOULD TECHNICALLY BE IN VIOLATION IF IT SAVES UP. SO IT WOULD BE INCUMBENT ON THEM TO COME BACK FOR AN EXTENSION OR CHANGE OR WHATEVER. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE VOTE? COMMISSIONER? NO. THAT WHEELS ATTORNEY, THAT'S NOT BECOMING PART OF THE MOTION THOUGH, IS IT? WE HAVE JUST SAID THEY DON'T, THAT THE CURRENT MOTION STILL MEETS THE SAME DEMAND BECAUSE THEY WILL BE OUT OF COMPLIANCE AND COULD BE CITED UNLESS THEY COME BACK AND ASK US AT THAT TIME. OKAY. YEAH. THE LAST, THE LAST PART IS VITAL. THANK YOU. YEAH, WE DIDN'T ADD THAT IN. OKAY. ARE WE READY FOR VOTE? OKAY. ALL ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS NEW MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. YES. ANY OPPOSED TO THIS NEW MOTION? NO. YES. NO. . OKAY. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED A ROLL CALL, BUT IT'S ALWAYS SAFE IS TO GO AHEAD AND DO IT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE TO SPEND OUR TIME DOING THAT. DISTRICT ONE COMMISSIONER CUMMINS? YES. DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY? YES. DISTRICT THREE COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? YES. DISTRICT FOUR COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? YES. DISTRICT SIX. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. DISTRICT SEVEN COMMISSIONER SMITH? YES. DISTRICT EIGHT. COMMISSIONER RONANKI NOW DISTRICT NINE. COMMISSIONER RENO? YES. DISTRICT 11 COMMISSIONER? YES. DISTRICT 12. COMMISSIONER ROTHENBERGER? YES. DISTRICT 13. COMMISSIONER PRESI? NO. DISTRICT 14 COMMISSIONER HARPER? YES. UH, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? YES. COMMISSIONER REEVES. WE HAVE TWO NOS. OKAY. SO THAT MOTION HAS CARRIED, AND I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND THE TERMS. I WILL ASK STAFF TO CONVEY TO THE OWNER WHAT TERMS CAME UP BECAUSE IT'S, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO COULD END UP GETTING CITED IF THEY LEAVE IT UP 10 YEARS OR SOMETHING. AND WHO KNOWS, PERHAPS IN THE NEXT YEAR, SOMEONE ELSE WILL PROPOSE THERE AND GET MARRIED AND THEN THEY'LL WANNA CHANGE THE MURAL TO THEIR VERSION OF, WILL YOU MARRY ME? I DON'T KNOW. WE, WE'VE NONE. MOST OF US WON'T BE HERE, BUT SOMEBODY WILL ROLL UPON [02:25:01] IT. OKAY. SO I HOPE YOU ARE HA SATISFIED WITH THIS CONCLUSION. WE'VE MADE A VERY NICE COMPROMISE. THANK YOU MR. MANSON. THANK. OKAY. I KNOW WE'VE BEEN MOVING SOLELY. I SUSPECT SOME OF THEM WILL GO FASTER. I WANNA ASK THE COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A BRIEF NECESSITY BREAK OR DO YOU WANT TO SOLDIER THROUGH AND ? YOU DO WANT TO, I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN'T REALLY LEAVE. . WE'LL TAKE A BREAK, BUT FIVE MINUTES. OKAY. WE ARE COMING BACK AT 3 32 AND WE'LL ALL BE SITTING DOWN AND NOT TALKING. BEN. OKAY. SCOTT, I CAN'T WHAT TIME? SHE SAID BE BACK THREE 30 SOON. . SO YOU DIDN'T LOOK AT THAT. LOOK UNDER THE BOTTOM. MARCUS JUST GAVE ME NANCY THAT AGO. YOU CAN'T SAY I, I WAS, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I, NO, I REPLY. I WISH. [02:30:05] OKAY. EVERYBODY SIT DOWN. WE PROMISED TO RESUME AND OUR AUDIENCE IS VERY TIRED. WE ARE TOO. BUT THEY DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS QUITE LIKE WE DID . MATTER OF FACT, WE MISSED OUR GRANDDAUGHTER. WHO? AND SHE SAYS TODAY. THEN SHE GOES, WOW. AND SO THAT THIS IS, THAT. I DON'T HAVE, I'M SORRY. THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME FEEL GUILTY. I JUST REALLY NEEDED THAT ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD TODAY. . I KNOW, BUT OH, SO IF THEY ALL JUMP OFF A CLIFF, YOU ARE GOING JUMP OFF A CLIFF. NO, YOU'RE GONNA STAND ON THE EDGE BEFORE I TOLD YOU TO. WHERE AM SORRY. OKAY. THE FOURTH? YEAH. MAY. OKAY. HERE'S ANOTHER COMMISSIONER TO SIT DOWN. HERE THEY COME. YEAH, I THINK HE SAID THREE 30 WAS WHEN HE HAD TO LEAVE. NEXT. OKAY. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON IS BACK. COMMISSIONER ANTE. OKAY. IT'S 3 34. SO IT'S TIME FOR US TO START AGAIN. THE NEXT CASE WE'RE HEARING IS NUMBER EIGHT LATIMER STREET. IS THAT CORRECT? UH, YES. DID WE HAVE SOMEBODY SIGNED UP FOR LATIMER STREET? UH, . OKAY. UM, YEAH. YEAH. WE WERE WONDERING IF, UH, QUEEN CITY COULD GO BEFORE YEAH. THAT WE WERE JUST ABOUT TO SAY. DO WE WANNA REORDER FOR THE LADY WITH THE GRANDDAUGHTER WHO'S A BIG GOLFER? YOU'RE WITH QUEEN CITY, RIGHT? ? YEAH. UH, I MOVED. UH, THE REASON I'M DOWN HERE, I'M VERY GRATEFUL AND HONORED. HOLD ON, HOLD ON, HOLD ON. WE HAVE OUR PROCEDURES, YOU KNOW. WELL, YOU DONE OKAY. WE'RE NO PHONE AT ALL. SO I MOVED THAT WE REARRANGED THE AGENDA TO TAKE, UH, ITEM NUMBER 10 FOR 8, 9, 6, 4, AND 12. OKAY. THE SECOND IS COMMISSIONER REEVES. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT. NOBODY'S OPPOSED. SO WE WILL TAKE NUMBER 10 NEXT. AND THAT IS QUEEN CITY. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF. DISCUSSION ITEM D 10. UH, IT PERTAINS TO THE QUEEN CITY NEIGHBORHOOD IN COUNCIL DISTRICT SEVEN. CURRENTLY THE QUEEN CITY NEIGHBORHOOD IS UNDER PRE DESIGNATION MORATORIUM. THE REQUEST IS FOR A LANDMARK COMMISSION AUTHORIZED HEARING TO CONSIDER RE-INITIATING THE HISTORIC DESIGNATED DESIGNATION PROCEDURE TO ESTABLISH A HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT ON PROPERTY CONSTITUTING A SUBDISTRICT WITHIN PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT NUMBER 5 9 5, AN AREA KNOWN AS THE QUEEN CITY NEIGHBORHOOD. GENERALLY BOUNDED BY STATE HIGHWAY THREE 10, ALSO KNOWN AS SM WRIGHT FREEWAY, WARREN AVENUE, MALCOLM X BOULEVARD, AND EUGENE STREET. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. UH, I DON'T KNOW IF WE, WE DON'T HAVE TASK FORCE ON THIS ONE, RIGHT? NO. NO TASK FORCE. ALL RIGHT. SO WE HAVE SPEAKERS SIGNED UP. EVA JONES. NOW YOU GET TO COME UP. TELL ME YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS PLEASE. MY NAME IS EVA JONES. MY ADDRESS IS 2333 EUGENE STREET, DALLAS, 7 5 2 1 5. ALRIGHT, AND PROCEED TO TELLING US WHAT YOUR OPINION IS OF OUR REINITIATING QUEEN CITY. UH, I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU ALL TO WORK WITH US. WE HAVE HAD SEVERAL DELAYS. SEVERAL, A LOT OF THEM NATURALLY, YOU KNOW, I WOULD NEVER SAY THAT [02:35:01] IT WAS THE CITY, UH, AND PERSONNEL CHANGES. I COULD NEVER BE THAT. BUT, UH, WHAT I AM ASKING SERIOUSLY, IF, UH, YOU WOULD GIVE DR. DUNN THE HONOR OF FINISHING THE WORK IN WHICH SHE SO TIRELESSLY DOES. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S MY AS. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND DR. DUNN IS TIRELESS. I DO NOT BELIEVE SHE SHEEP SLEEPS OR SHEEPS, WHATEVER I WAS SAY . NOW I SEE YOU HAVE SEVERAL PEOPLE NEAR YOU, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY ELSE SIGNED UP TO. I DO HAVE BARBARA WHEELER. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BARBARA WHEELER. I RESIDE AT 35 12 DUNBAR STREET. I WAS TEXAS AND I'M ON PHONE. YOU ARE? YEAH. . UH, I I'M JUST HERE TO GIVE SOME, UH, SUPPORT TO THE QUEEN CITY UHAND. OKAY. THAT YOU, UH, CONTINUE WITH THAT BECAUSE, UH, ALL OF THE, UM, CONSTRUCTION THAT IS BEING DONE IN THE AREA THAT DOES NOT FIT IN WITH THE HISTORICAL HISTORY. AND I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO THE QUEEN CITY AND THE REST OF THE HISTORICAL AREAS BECAUSE OF WHAT THE HOMES LOOK LIKE. THE NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT ARE BEING PUT UP IS, UM, EXTREMELY, UH, I'M PUT IT THIS WAY, OFFENSIVE THOUGHT YOU MIGHT GO IN MODERN, BUT OKAY, , I, I DON'T REALLY MEAN THAT REALLY IN A BAD WAY, BUT YOU, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THE CONSTRUCTION AND DOING ALL THIS STUFF, THEY DON'T LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. FIRST OF ALL, THEY DON'T SEE, UH, HOW IT AFFECTS THE VISION AS YOU'RE TRAVELING THROUGH THE OUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE ONCE YOU COULD SEE, AND I GREW UP IN, UH, DEEP AUM. I WAS BORN THERE. SO I'M, I'M DEFINITELY A CITY GIRL, NOT A COUNTRY GIRL. ANY OTHER THING, UH, SOUTH OUT. BUT I WAS BORN IN DEEP AUM ON TAYLOR STREET. SO I, I KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY. SO, UH, NOW ALL I SEE IS, UH, THE NEW HOUSES THAT ARE RIGHT THERE. OH, UH, ALSO METTE, OAKLAND, PENNSYLVANIA, ALL OF THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION DOUBLE, UH, TWO STORY HOUSES. THIS DOES NOT FIT IN WITH THE HISTORY. UH, YOU HAVE THE HISTORY OF, UH, THE PRAYER. MY FAMILY WAS THE LAST FAMILY TO LEAVE THE PRAYER. IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA. I HAVE A LARGE FAMILY. WE'RE ALL OVER THE CITY OF DALLAS COUNTY. SO I JUST ASK THAT YOU CONTINUE THAT. DR. DUNN, MYSELF AND QUITE A FEW OF THE OTHER, UH, STAFF MEMBERS, FINISHED DOING WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST YEAR, USING UP MY SATURDAYS TO , UH, KEEP HISTORY BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THEIR PARENTS UNTIL WE SHARE IT WITH THEM. SO WE NEED TO DEFINITELY KEEP THE HISTORY NOT ONLY FOR JUST SAY OUR, UH, NATIONALITY, BUT IT'S HISTORY FOR ALL NATIONALITIES. AND UNTIL YOU START SHARING IT AND TALKING ABOUT IT, UH, YOU GET NO, NO, THAT'S, NO THANK YOU MA'AM. ALRIGHT. UM, SO COMMISSIONERS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ON THE ISSUE BEFORE US OF REINITIATING QUEEN CITY COMMISSIONER? I WOULD JUST LIKE TO THANK MS. WHEELER. I NOTE THAT YOU ARE THE CHAIR OF THE WHEATLEY BASED 10 TASK FORCE AND I READ ALL YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS. YOU ARE USUALLY RIGHT ON. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. COMMISSIONER SMITH, UH, THANK YOU. UM, DR. DON AND THE QUEEN CITIES NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. THANK YOU GUYS FOR, FOR BEING HERE. UM, I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT CONTINUING THIS WORK AND WANTING TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE CAN GET TO THE FINISH LINE ON THIS. I KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON WITHIN, UH, SOUTH DALLAS SPECIFICALLY. UM, THE CHANGE OF PD 5, 9 5 AND THE WHOLE AREA PLAN AND THOSE, THOSE THINGS, I WANT YOU GUYS NOT TO BE DISCOURAGED, BUT CONTINUE TO SHOW UP, CONTINUE TO GET YOUR NEIGHBORS TO SHOW UP AND ENSURE THAT, UH, WE'RE PRESSING TOWARDS THE MARK TO GET THIS THING DONE AND OFFICIAL. OKAY? SO, THANK YOU GUYS. ANYONE [02:40:01] ELSE? OKAY, WELL THEN WE'RE PROBABLY READY TO HAVE SOMEONE MAKE THE MOTION. I, I, I AGREE THAT, UM, MS. WHEELER, WE, WE ALWAYS EVEN SOMETIMES TELL APPLICANTS WHO WANNA DO SOMETHING WHEATLEY PLACE THEY SHOULDN'T. THAT WE KNOW THE LOCAL PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO APPROVE AND WE KNOW WHO WILL BE THE VOICE OF, OF THAT. OKAY? WE HAVE TO DO IT IN TWO STEPS SINCE IT'S A DISTRICT. SO TODAY IS INFORMATIONAL, SO, OH. SO WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING. HAN WILL BE MAKING THE DECISION. ALL RIGHTY. SO YOU'LL BE BACK AGAIN WITH SHAN ? NO, JUNE. JUNE THE FIRST. JUNE THE FIRST. SO YOU WON'T BE READY, QUEEN. WE WE'LL BE READY AND YOU WILL BE TOO. OKAY. . OKAY. OKAY, NOW GO WATCH YOUR DAUGHTER, HIT GRANDDAUGHTER, HIT GOLF BALL WITH HER LONG STICK. OKAY? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU. VERY, VERY, VERY. I'M CALIFORNIA . YOU HAVE BEEN SUMMONED, SIR. ALRIGHT, NOW WE WILL DO D EIGHT, WHICH IS, WELL, IT'S IN QUEEN CITY ON LATIMER STREET. . OKAY. DID MR. SMITH COME BACK? OKAY. DID ANYONE TRY TO TEXT OR CALL HIM TO SEE IF HE IS UNAWARE THAT IT'S HIS TIME? UH, THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SMITH IS GONNA CONTACT HIM. SHOULD WE DO THE NEXT ONE WHILE YOU GIVE HIM TIME TO ANSWER? OKAY, THEN THAT WOULD BE D NINE. OKAY. OKAY. AND THAT IS THE ONE WHERE COMMISSIONER REEVES HAS INFORMED ME. YOU HAVE NOT INFORMED ME. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. NEVERMIND. , SHE HAS INFORMED ME OF NOTHING. WE HAVEN'T USUALLY DONE THAT WHEN WE NEEDED TO GIVE SOMEBODY CONNECTION TIME. YOU CAN REORDER OR YOU CAN MOVE. IF, IF THE COMMISSION ACQUIESCES TO IT, IT WILL BE DEEMED DONE BY ACQUI ACQUIESCENCE. ACQUI. OKAY. OKAY. ITEM D NINE, WHICH IS COA 26 DASH 0 0 1 5 6, LOCATED AT 26 0 1 STATE STREET IN THE STATE THOMAS HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND I'M MARCUS WATSON PRESENTING ON, ON BEHALF OF STAFF. THE REQUEST IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO AND A HALF STORY MULTIFAMILY MAIN STRUCTURE WITH RELATED SITE WORK ON A VACANT LOT STAFF. RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE SIX, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO AND A HALF STORY MULTIFAMILY MAIN STRUCTURE WITH RELATED SITE WORK ON A VACANT LOT BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS SUBMITTED APRIL 17TH, 2026. THE PROPOSED WORK IS CONSISTENT WITH DESIGNATION CRITERIA IN CITY CODE 51 P DASH 2 25, 1 0 9, A THREE A FIVE, A SIX A SEVEN A ROMAN AT ONE A NINE, A 10, A 11, A 12, A 14 A 16, AND B EIGHT MEETS THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN AT TWO FOR NON-CON, NON-CONTRIBUTING STR PROPERTIES. AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR SETTING NEIGHBORHOOD DISTRICT TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW 2.5 STORY, MULTI-FAMILY MAIN STRUCTURE WITH RELATED SITE WORK AND A VACANT LIGHT LOT BE APPROVED. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. AND, UM, OUR REGISTERED SPEAKER ON THIS ONE IS MICHAEL MCGEE. OH, I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY OUT THERE. SO YOU'RE IT, IF YOU SAY YOU'RE MICHAEL MCGEE, COME FORWARD. . I JUST DIDN'T SEE YOU SITTING BEHIND DR. DUNN'S . ALL RIGHT, SIR, YOU KNOW THE DRILL BEGIN WITH HER NAME, ADDRESS, AND YOUR PROMISE TO TELL US THE TRUTH. UH, MICHAEL MCGEE. UH, 1 0 8 8 8 CAPROCK CIRCLE 5 1 8. OKAY, SO YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO GIVE US SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR PROJECT HERE. UM, REALLY, I WAS JUST GONNA BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT, WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR THE CURRENT INTERVIEW A COUPLE OF TIMES. WE, I THINK WE'VE ADDRESSED SOME OF THE CONCERNS AND WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, NAMELY, UH, IT WAS SOME OF THE, UH, THE FRONT PORCH CONDITIONS, THE SIDE PORCH CONDITIONS, AND, UH, WE'VE ADDED SOME RENDERING TO, TO FURTHER GO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. AND, UH, [02:45:06] UH, PAST THAT. I MEAN, I, I THINK IT REALLY JUST . ALRIGHT SIR. WELL, WELL I HAD ONE QUESTION AND THE ANSWER'S PROBABLY IN MY DOCKET AND I JUST DIDN'T FIND IT. THE RAILING BETWEEN THE LITTLE COLUMNS ON YOUR UPPER PORCH AND PORCH, IS THAT MADE OF METAL OR WOOD? UH, WE DISCUSSED IT AND I BELIEVE IT WAS DECIDED THAT IT WAS PROBABLY IN THE BEST INTEREST, THE, THE WOOD. OKAY. I JUST COULDN'T TELL FROM THE DRAWINGS THERE. THERE'S, THERE'S MORE, THERE'S MORE PRECEDENT FOR IT TO BE WOOD IN THAT AREA. THERE ARE, ARE SOME INSTANCES WHERE IT IS METAL, BUT IT DIDN'T, THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE FOLLOWING WOOD, THE EVIDENCE. OKAY, THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE WOOD IS FINE. I JUST COULD NOT TELL FROM THE DRAWING. UH, QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, FIRST I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR FOLLOWING OUR DIRECTION. THIS TURNED OUT TO BE REALLY A BEAUTIFUL PROJECT. THERE ARE TWO THINGS I NOTED THAT MIGHT HELP TAKE IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. THE, THE PAINT COLORS ON THE GABLE ENDS, THE UPPER GABLES ARE VERY, APPEAR TO BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE ROOF COLOR. AND I THINK YOU'RE LEADING SOME OF THE DETAIL, PARTICULARLY, UH, THE SHINGLES HAS THAT LITTLE VISOR AT THE BOTTOM. SO WAS IT INTENDED TO HAVE THE PAINT COLOR ON THE GABLE ENDS NEARLY IDENTICAL TO THE ROOF SHINGLES? IT WAS, AND FOR THE REASON OF POSSIBLY BEING THAT HALF LEVEL AND KIND OF MAKING IT MORE SUBDUED AND MORE OF THE ROOF, WE ARE NOT TIED TO THAT. I MEAN, THERE ARE OTHER INSTANCES ON THE STREET WHERE THAT FACE IS A DIFFERENT COLOR AND WE WERE, WE'RE FINE WITH MAYBE MAKING IT MORE LIKE THE SIDES OF THE DORMERS. AND WE, OUR INTENTION THERE WAS TO KIND OF NOT MAKE IT BEING THAT HALF LEVEL, WHICH ISN'T SOMETHING THAT WE JUST LIKE HAVE TO, THAT THAT WAS THE OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THE OTHER THING IS, CAN YOU SHOW US A SIDE, UH, ELEVATION PLEASE? THAT, THAT ONE IS FINE. UM, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO SEE IN THIS PICTURE, BUT THERE ARE TWO PORT, UM, EXIT DOORS ON BOTH SIDE FACADES AND THEY HAVE SORT OF A HALF PORCH WITH STAIRS GOING DOWN. I THINK YOU'RE MISSING AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT KIND OF LOOKS MORE LIKE AN APARTMENT BUILDING. THAT'S THAT'S A GOOD ONE RIGHT THERE. YEAH. RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS MORE LIKE AN APARTMENT BUILDING WITH TWO EXITS AND THERE'S THE BEGINNINGS OF A A HALF OF A PORCH AND A, A PIECE OF A KIND OF A CANOPY OVER THE TOP. YOU MIGHT EXPLORE MAKING THAT INTO MORE OF A FULL PORCH BECAUSE THAT WOULD ACTUALLY SELL THE UNITS BETTER BECAUSE PORCHES ARE REALLY WHERE IT'S AT. AND IT WOULD ALSO GIVE THE SIDE FACADES A LITTLE MORE INTEREST AND MAKE IT LOOK LIKE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY LIVING IN UNITS THERE INSTEAD OF AN APARTMENT BUILDING. SO YOU MIGHT EXPLORE MAKING THE SLAB GO ALL THE WAY ACROSS AND MAYBE EVEN SOME TYPE OF A, A, A SMALL GABLE ON THE TOP OF IT JUST TO GIVE IT MORE OF A PORCH FEELING. BUT I THINK THAT'S A MISSED OPPORTUNITY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM ANYONE? WELL I, ONCE AGAIN, I'M PROBABLY ASKING YOU SOMETHING YOU ALREADY TOLD ME IN THE DOCKET, THE WINDOWS YOU'RE SPECIFYING COME IN THREE COLORS, YOU'RE GONNA USE THE DARKER COLOR THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT YOU'RE RENDERING SHOWS. YEAH. SO YOU'RE NOT USING, I WAS AFRAID YOU'RE PUTTING WHITE IN FOR SOME TIME. SOME REASON PEOPLE DO THAT, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE DARKER IS THE PERFECT CHOICE, SO THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, SO IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS APPLICANT, ARE THERE GENTLEMEN, ARCHITECTS OVER THERE HAVE A QUESTION? YEAH. OKAY, THEN YOU WERE ABOUT TO MISS YOUR, YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. UM, CAN YOU BRING UP THE ELEVATION STRAIGHT ON THE FRONT ELEVATION? YEAH. GO BACK TO THE FIRST, FIRST ONE YOU JUST DID. UH, THAT ONE RIGHT THERE IS FINE. YEAH, ZOOM IN JUST A LITTLE BIT. IT'S, IT LOOKS SO GOOD. UM, BUT I, AND I DON'T WANT TO TO RAIL EVERYTHING, BUT IT'S JUST, IT, I CAN'T LET GO OF THIS RIGHT AT THE MOMENT. THE COL TAKE THE COLUMNS, UH, YOU GOT THE LEFT SIDE AND THE RIGHT SIDE. SO THE BAYS, THE, THE PORCH AND THE PERIMETER OUTSIDE TO OUTSIDE OF, OF, OF LIKE A COLUMN YOU GO STRAIGHT UP. SEEMS LIKE WE, WE SHOULD BE SYMMETRICALLY TO ITSELF OF, OF THE GABLE. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE GABLE, IT'S SHIFTED OVER BY LIKE A [02:50:01] FOOT, FOOT AND A HALF, TWO FEET. SO THE CENTER LINE OF THE PORCH DOES NOT GO TO THE CENTER LINE OF THE APEX OF THAT GABLE ROOF. AND THAT'S MAKING ME SHORT CIRCUIT A LITTLE BIT . SO, AND EVERYTHING LOOKS SO GOOD , BUT I, I'M IS THERE, WITHOUT TRYING TO DESIGN FROM, FROM HERE, IS THERE A WAY WE CAN SHIP THE PORCH OVER OR SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP ALLEVIATE THAT IN, IN MY MY THOUGHTS? LIKE IF THE, IF THE PORCH COLUMN LINED UP WITH THE SIDE OF THE BAY WINDOW, THE BAY, NO, I'M JUST, I'M JUST TALKING, I'M TALKING ABOUT IF THAT, IF THE PORCH CAN BE SHIFTED OVER WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS UP WITH THE, THE DOMINOING OF WHAT IF YOU TRIED TO SHIFT THE GABLE AND YOU KEPT THE ROOF LINE, YOU KEPT THE GABLE. IF THERE'S A WAY THAT, THAT THE WHOLE PORCH MASS CAN GET SHIFTED OVER TO WHERE THE CENTER LINE OF THE PORCH CAN GO UP AND HIT THE CENTER LINE OF THE APEX OF THE CABLE MM-HMM . RIGHT. OKAY. NO, HE JUST WANTS THEIR OVERALL WHIPPED. YEAH, I, I UNDERSTAND. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND. HEY, I, YEAH, JUST, YOU GOT THE CENTER LINE RIGHT HERE AND YOU GO UP AND, AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SAME RIGHT HERE. THE GABLE IS JUST AT ITS OUTER POINTS IS SLIGHTLY WIDER THAN THE OTHER IF THE PORTS WERE ALL CENTERED WITH THE GABLE, IT JUST, YEAH. SEE WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY? YEAH. YEAH. IT'S EASIER TO LOOK AT IT ON THE SCREEN IF YOU HAVE PULLED UP ON YOUR OWN AND YOU CAN ZOOM IN, BUT IT'S JUST THE PORCH IS A LITTLE SKINNIER THAN THE OUTER POINTS OF THE OUTER PART OF THE GATE. WE WERE KIND OF JUST DISCUSSING WHETHER OR NOT THE MASSING WOULD HELP THAT AND ALL OF THAT. BUT I, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA HELP IT AND I JUST WAS GONNA SEE IF THERE'S A WAY YEAH. CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT ON WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE? YOU'VE GOT MORE, YOU GOT MUCH TIME INVESTED IN THIS. I HAVE NOTICED THAT AT ALL, , LIKE, AND, AND, AND IT, IT, IT BECAME A CONFLICT OF THE OVERHANG OF THE ROOF AND THEN THE INSIDE PART OF IT AND, AND THEN ALSO THE USAGE STATE OF ABOUT, SO YEAH, THERE. RIGHT. AND WELL, BECAUSE ON ONE SIDE IT GOES TO THE EDGE OF THAT, OF THE BUILDING OBVIOUSLY. AND SO, AND THEN YOU DO HAVE THE ROOF THAT KIND OF WITH, WITH THE, WITH THE BE SO IT, IT'S OVER. I'M, I'M WONDERING IF, IF YOU BROUGHT IN THE OTHER SIDE TO WHERE THEN IT'S STILL SYM ETHICAL, IT MAY NOT BE SYMMATIC, BUT YES, I MEAN NO, I, I I, SO I WAS HESITANT TO SAY SOMETHING, I JUST COULDN'T LET IT GO. BUT I WAS ALSO WANTING TO GET IN YOUR HEAD IF THERE'S, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT, HOW E EACH ITEM'S GONNA DOMINATE EACH OTHER AND IF THERE'S YEAH. AND AND IF THERE'S A FIX THAT YOU COULD BRING UP TO US AT THE MOMENT. IT WOULD, I MEAN, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, MAYBE ADJUSTING THE, THE, THE INSIDE WIDTH OF IT. IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY MAKE IT SMALLER. I MEAN, SO IT WOULDN'T KIND OF JUST ALIGN UP WITH IT. BUT IF YOU TALK BRING ONE IN, AT LEAST IT WOULD BE THE SAME, YOU KNOW? YEAH. IT WOULD BE TUCKED IN. CORRECT. SO IF THE GABLE WOULD GIVE IT AN OVERHANG AND THIS SIDE WOULD BE TUCKED IN THE SAME SIDE AS THE OTHER SIDE WOULD BE TUCKED IN. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH. YEAH. SO MAYBE IF THERE'S ANY POSSIBLE WAY THAT I'M GONNA DEFER TO THE NEXT CIRCUIT, IF YOU COULD, IF THERE'S ANY POSSIBLE WAY IF THAT, IF THAT BECOMES MAYBE SOME KIND OF CONDITION IN THE MOTION IF YOU CAN. I THINK I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IF YOU CAN TRUST STAFF, WE'D LOVE TO GET THEM ON THEIR WAY. . BUT YEAH. AND, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT, WHERE I'M, I'M COMING FROM THAT SAME REFERENCE POINT. I MEAN WE'VE MADE SO MUCH WORK AND WE'VE GOTTEN JUST RIGHT THERE. SO, AND I GUESS ANOTHER QUESTION IS, IS YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE IT BEING SYMMETRICAL AND THEN YOU HAVE IT BEING NOT SYMMETRICAL AND IS POSSIBLY THE ISSUE THAT IT'S TOO FAR IN BETWEEN BOTH. LIKE, BECAUSE LIKE THE OTHER THING IS LIKE OF THE INTERIOR BEING WIDER TO WHERE IT MAKES THE, THE MAKES IT A BIGGER VALVE. IT SO IT'S MORE CLEAR THAT IT'S NOT MARCUS, IT WAS A SLIDE, WHICH IS ALSO ANOTHER PREFERENCE. I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING THERE WAS A SLIDE THAT SHOWED THAT SIDE PORCH. IF YOU COULD, THERE WAS A SLIDE. THIS, THERE IT IS. [02:55:01] OH, ACTUALLY, OH, EXTEND IT OUT. SO IT DOESN'T ALIGN WITH THE CORRECT. AND, AND ACTUALLY THAT, I MEAN, AND, AND, AND THAT, THAT COULD BE LOOKED AT IT AS, AS LONG AS I THINK WE COULD DO THAT WITH BEING THAT RIGHT NEAR. OKAY. SO I'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE TALKING NEXT TO ME. UM, I SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU DO SEE A WAY WHERE YOU COULD MAKE IT ADJUST TO THAT? I WOULD POINT OUT THAT, NOW THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED IT, I CAN'T UNSEE IT, BUT I'M NOT SURE IN REAL LIFE PEOPLE WILL NOTICE IT VERY OFTEN. 'CAUSE YOU NEVER SEE ANYTHING IN ELEVATION. THEY MIGHT KNOW IT EVEN MORE SO. SO PLACE, SIDE, BOTH SIDES. COIN. YEAH. BUT IT'S, IT'S A CONSIDERATION IF I THINK THIS HAVE SEE A BLEAK AND IT LOOKS DIFFERENT AND YOU DON'T NOTICE IT. SO, UM, MAY I ADD A COUPLE OF THINGS? OKAY. COMMISSIONER RENE. OKAY. YOU TWO OR TAG TEAMING. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. SO WELL, SO EFFECTIVELY THE PORCH DOESN'T ALIGN WITH THE GABLE AND, UM, IF THAT'S THE, THE DIRECTION, WHICHEVER YOU CHOOSE TO DO IT. IF IT'S EITHER MOVE AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU CAN MOVE THE GABLE BECAUSE THAT'S A CONTINUOUS ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE STRUCTURE. UM, SO IT SEEMS TO ME THE SIMPLEST THING WOULD BE TO NUDGE THE PORT. NOW WHETHER OR NOT IT GETS WIDER OR NARROWER, ALL WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR IS TO MAKE IT SO, I MEAN TO, UM, TO ALIGN THE CENTERS, RIGHT? SO, UM, I THINK WE CAN LEAVE IT, WE CAN LEAVE IT AT THAT AND THEN, AND THEN, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN MAKE THAT A CONDITION. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE ARE DISCUSSING A CONDITION THAT SAYS WHAT YOU'RE TO ACHIEVE, THAT THEY ARE ALIGNED CENTER, BUT LEAVING IT OPEN TO THE JUDGMENT OF STAFF. WHAT WOULD BE THAT METHOD? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING? ALL RIGHTY. COMMISSIONER REEVES PUT ALL YOUR LIGHTS ON. ALL RIGHT, SO DID YOU HEAR ALL THAT MR. ANDERSON? AND I, I HAD A QUESTION. THIS MS. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR. OKAY, GO AHEAD. ON THAT SECOND FLOOR PLAN, UM, YOU HAVE THESE TWO BEDROOMS THAT TEE UP TO THAT INTERIOR VOID SPACE. DO YOU PLAN TO HAVE WINDOWS THAT DAYLIGHT, THOSE TWO BEDROOMS? OR ARE, ARE THERE ANY ELEVATIONS OF THAT INTERIOR SPACE? YES, THERE ON, ON THE BEDROOMS, YES. THERE, THERE IS. THERE WOULD, THERE WOULD BE A WINDOW THERE IF THAT THE SITUATION PART, PART OF THAT LAYOUT HAS BEEN A REQUEST OF THE OWNER WANTING A CERTAIN LAYOUT AND THIS WAS EXPLORING THAT IN THAT INSTANCE. AND THAT WAS SOME OF THE EXPLANATIONS THAT WE WERE TELLING THEM THAT MADE THAT DIFFICULT. BUT YES, THERE WOULD BE A WITNESS. WE, WE WOULD OF COURSE NEED THE REVISED PLANS BEFORE I COULD STAMP THEM, BUT YEAH, BUT I MEAN, I GUESS WHAT, WHAT I'M, I MEAN I GUESS WHAT HE IS REFERRING TO, THAT'S LIKE IN THE INTERIOR COR CORRECT. BUT YOU'RE STILL GONNA, WHEN YOU GO FOR A PERMIT, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE MY STAMP ON THEM AND SO YEAH, WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE 'EM FINISHED AND LIKE EVERYTHING'S THERE. LIKE ALL THE WINDOWS ARE THERE EVEN ON THE INTERIOR. OKAY. YEAH. ALL, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, IN THAT CASE THEN THAT ENDS UP PUBLIC HEARING AND SOMEONE MAKES A MOTION. I'VE GOT A MOTION. OKAY. COMMISSIONER RENO, UH, REGARDING 26 0 1 STATE STREET, ALSO KNOWN AS, UH, NO. YEAH, COA, UH, TWO SIX DASH, UH, 1 56 THAT WE FOLLOW, UM, OR THAT WE APPROVE FOLLOWING STAFF RECOMMENDATION WITH ONE, UM, CONDITION THAT THE PORCH, THE FRONT PORCH ON, UM, STATE STREET ON, ON BOTH THE UNITS, UM, THAT THE FRONT PORCH ALIGNS WITH THE GABLE AND UM, THE APPLICANT HAS, UH, OPTIONS ON, ON HOW TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. EITHER IT OVERHANGS OR IT DOESN'T. ANYWAY, YOU'D HAVE TO GET INTO ALL OF THAT. IT'S JUST THE, THE MAIN POINT IS THAT THEY ALIGN AND YOU WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH STAFF FINAL APPROVAL ON THAT. YES. SECOND AND OUR SECOND WAS COMMISSIONER SMITH. ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I HAVE A QUESTION. YOU DO A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT ABOUT THE PAINT COLOR ON THE FRONT, GABLE THAT IT BE A LIGHTER COLOR TO DIFFERENTIATE THE GABLE IN FROM THE ROOF? UM, YES, THAT'S FINE. IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU SECOND COMMISSIONER? THAT, THAT'S FINE WITH ALL RIGHTY. ALRIGHT, IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF MS. MOTION WOULD SAY THAT? YES. [03:00:01] YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT. IT APPEARS THE MOTION HAS CARRIED SO YOU'RE THERE. CONGRATULATIONS. NOW YOU JUST HAVE TO BUILD IT, WHICH I KNOW BE NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER. TRUE. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, IS RICK SMITH AVAILABLE SO WE CAN PROCEED WITH HIS CASE? MAAM, DID WE HEAR BACK MA FROM HIM? COMMISSIONER? YES MA'AM. HE'S ON. HE'S ON? YES MA'AM. OH, THERE HE IS. OKAY. ALRIGHT, WE'LL NEED TO SEE YOU MR. SMITH FOR YOU TO BE PART OF THIS MEETING, BUT I NEED TO CAMERA ON, OKAY. I'M ADJUSTING SETTINGS ON HERE. YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT WITH THIS DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING IT. WE'RE NOT ZOOM, WE'RE NOT TEAMS. NOT ANYTHING . SHALL WE GO AHEAD AND READ IT INTO THE RECORD? NUMBER EIGHT. OKAY. WE CAN SEE YOU NOW. SO WE ARE DOING ITEM NUMBER EIGHT. YES. IF THE STAFF WOULD PLEASE READ THAT INTO THE RECORD. YES. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING, UH, DISCUSSION ITEM D EIGHT. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 3,500 LATIMER STREET COUNCIL, DISTRICT SEVEN. IT'S IN QUEEN CITY, WHICH IS CURRENTLY UNDER PRE-DESIGN MORATORIUM. THE CASE IS CO A DASH 26 DASH 1 62. THE REQUEST IS FOR PRE-DESIGN DESIGNATION. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT CORNER LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE. STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A PRE-DESIGN CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT CORNER AND LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS DATED 4 15 20 26 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS WITH ONE THAT THE EXTERIOR CLADDING BE BRICK VENEER UNPAINTED. TWO, THAT AN EXTERIOR MASONRY CHIMNEY BE ADDED TO THE FRONT, A CORNER SIDE ELEVATION THREE, THAT ROOF PITCH BE STEEPER, MINIMUM 12 TO 12 FOUR THAT WINDOWS BE ALL ALUMINUM, NO CLADDING WITH LIGHT CONFIGURATION OF ONE OVER ONE FIVE. THAT FRONT DOOR BE ARCHED OR RECTANGULAR WITH HEAVY TIMBER STALLING AND DECORATIVE STRAP HINGES. AND SIX THAT DRIVEWAY WALKWAYS AND STEPS BE OF BRUSH FINISHED CONCRETE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO MEET THE STANDARDS IN CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBSECTION D FIVE B FOR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT AND OR NEIGHBORHOOD. GOOD. HE IS ASKING MARK THE QUESTION. WE JUST, WE HAVE A QUESTION THAT THE, UM, THE AGENDA SAID THE TASK FORCE, UH, THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION IS NON-SUPPORTIVE, BUT THE FORM SHOWS SUPPORTIVE WITH COMMENTS. OKAY. IT SHOULD AT THE DAY OF THE TASK FORCE, I'M TRYING TO THINK. WE DID NOT HAVE A QUO, SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT WAS WRITTEN. IT'S SO THEY DIDN'T THOUGH THEY DIDN'T HAVE A QUORUM. RIGHT. SO THAT'S CLERICAL. UM, A CLERICAL ERROR AT WORST. YEAH. UM, BECAUSE THEY, THEY WERE GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE BUT WITH COMMENTS. RIGHT, RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION, UH, SUPPORTED WITH COMMENTS, SITE PLAN, OFFICIAL SITE SURVEY, MATERIAL SCHEDULE, CONTRIBUTED SITE PLAN WITH PICTURE WITH SCALE. HE'S READING STRAIGHT FROM THE TASK FORCE FORM. OKAY. [03:05:03] ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. UM, AND NOW WE HAVE OUR SPEAKER. OKAY. UM, WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO, MR. SMITH, IS TELL US YOUR FULL NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU WILL TELL THE TRUTH TODAY. YES, MY NAME IS RICK SMITH. THE ADDRESS IS 3 5 0 0 VLADIMIR STREET. AND I, I THINK THE LAST ONE. YES, I WILL TELL THE TRUTH. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO GIVE US SOME FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR PROJECT OR PERHAPS ANSWER CONCERNS AND THEN I EXPRESSED BY ANYBODY HERE. OKAY. UM, I, I BELIEVE THIS IS MY SECOND VISIT. UM, JUST MAKING SURE I FOLLOW ALL OF THE RULES OR NEW CONSTRUCTION ON A CORNER LOT. AND I KNOW THAT THE, UM, THE AREA THAT WE'RE BUILDING IN IS A FAIRLY NEW HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO NEW RULES, NEW NEW SITES. WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING OUR BEST TO, YOU KNOW, COMPLY AND MAKE SURE THAT WE DO EXACTLY WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS ASKING FOR. ALRIGHT. UM, THEN, THEN WE, UH, WE UM, WHY AM I HEARING MYSELF BACK? WHY AM I MYSELF BACK? WE READY TO, UH, ENTERTAIN QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS AND, UM, WELL I DID YOU, UM, LET ME ASK YOU, DID YOU HEAR THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE STAFF THAT YOU ADD A CHIMNEY YES. TO THE OUTSIDE? AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT SUGGESTION? UH, WE HAVE NO COMPLAINTS OR QUARRELS. UH, WE CAN DEFINITELY GET WITH OUR ARCHITECT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THAT ADDED ON THE PLANS AND GET THAT CONSTRUCTED AS WELL. UH, WE DO UNDERSTAND THE, THE RECOMMENDATION ABOUT THE DOOR, UM, THE BRUSH CONCRETE AND I BELIEVE I'M MISSING ONE. MAYBE NOT. OH, WELL THEY ALREADY, YEAH, THEY ALREADY, YOU ALREADY FOUND A LOVELY DOOR BY THE WAY, . YEAH, THE DOOR IS FINE. WE DO LIKE YOUR DOOR. UM, AND JUST THAT THE BRICK VENEER REMAIN UNPAINTED, WE NEED THAT. CORRECT? CORRECT. NO, NO, THANK THAT WAS IN THERE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW HOW YOU FELT ABOUT THE CHIMNEY. IT WILL PROBABLY BE ADORABLE AND YOU HAVE MANY WONDERFUL EXAMPLES. YOU CAN JUST COPY FROM THE TUTORS THAT ARE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY, THEY WOULD HARDLY ARGUE THEY WEREN'T RIGHT FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. COULD WE, I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. COULD YOU PUT THE SOUTH THE SIDE PLEASE? SURE. IT APPEARS THERE NEEDS TO BE, IN MY OPINION, MORE WINDOWS ON THE SOUTH, THE SIDE TOWARD THE FRONT AND ALSO THE GABLE IS SORT OF FLOATING. IT MIGHT NEED SOME RESOLUTION ON THAT BLANK WALL. UH OH. ALL RIGHT. DID, DID YOU HEAR THAT MR, BUT I NEED THE SOUTH FACADE. WE DON'T HAVE IT UP THERE YET, SO, SO WE ACTUALLY TOOK, OKAY. THE, THE SOUTH FACADE IS THE, THE LOWER ONE. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. OKAY. YES. THE INTERIOR SIDE. THE RIGHT, YES. PARDON ME? THE INTERIOR SIDE OF THE LOT WILL BE THE RIGHT SIDE. SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE RIGHT SIDE, CORRECT? YES. CAN YOU BLOW UP THE ONE ON THE BOTTOM? I I, I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE'RE CALLING, I CALL IT THE SOUTHWEST SIDE, BUT THE ONE ON THE BOTTOM, I MOVE IT UP A YEAH, YOU CAN USE YOUR MOUSE TO GET OUTSIDE . YEAH, I, WE LOST IT NOW. YEAH, I BELIEVE THAT IS THE FRONT WHERE THE LITTLE GABLE IS, THE PORCH. WE HAVE A LARGE BLANK WALL, WHICH NEEDS SOME WINDOWS AND THEN THE GABLE JUST SORT OF FLOATS UP THERE. IT NEEDS SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION, EITHER A, A BRICK EDGE OR MAYBE A, A WOOD, UH, A WOOD, UM, A WOOD PIECE LIKE A STRING COURSE OR WATER TABLE. EITHER A STRING COURSE OR MAYBE EVEN JUST A, UM, A WOOD. WHAT WHATEVER THE, THE, THE GABLE EDGE IS MADE OF. IS THAT, IS THAT A WOOD PIECE? WE THINK THAT'S COMING DOWN THERE. A WOOD MEMBER. THE FACIAL BREEZE SPORT, UH, WHERE THE GABLE COMES DOWN INTO THE, THE, INTO THE WALL. IS THAT, IS THAT A WOOD MEMBER DO YOU THINK? OR IS THAT BRICK? I BELIEVE IT'S ALL BRICK. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY BRINGING THAT DOWN WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE SUPPORT FOR THE GABLE. YEAH, IT'S JUST SORT OF FLOATING. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WINDOWS IN THAT WE, THAT WHOLE HALF FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THE WHOLE HALF FRONT OF THAT SIDE IS BLANK AND NEED SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION. UNDERSTOOD. AND WOULD THAT, THAT TO BE THE LOCATION OF THE FIREPLACE? THAT WOULD HELP. OKAY. I, I DON'T [03:10:01] KNOW WHERE THE FIREPLACE GOES, SO I CAN'T REALLY, BUT I MEAN IT WOULD HELP. IT NEEDS SOME WINDOWS THERE. SOMETHING'S IN A WEIRD PART. ALRIGHT, DO YOU HAVE ANY RESPONSE TO THAT MR. SMITH? NO, NO RESPONSE. WE CAN DEFINITELY ADD, UM, SOME WINDOWS THERE. WE KNOW WHICH ROOM THAT THAT'S GONNA BE. SO WE CAN ADD, ADD TWO WINDOWS THERE AT THE BOTTOM AND THEN ADD SOME SUPPORT FOR THAT GABLE AS WELL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANYONE? YEAH, I JUST HAD A COUPLE OF COMMENTS ON THE FRONT ELEVATION. UM, SEE THAT WOULD BE THE ONE FACING VLADIMIR. UM, THE PLACEMENT OF THE WINDOW THAT'S IN THE, THE MAJOR GABLE. UM, IF I KNOW THAT'S IN A BEDROOM, YOU'RE TRYING TO GET A BED UNDERNEATH THAT, BUT IT FEELS LIKE THE WINDOW IS TUCKED REALLY TIGHT UP INTO THAT GABLE. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD DROP IT DOWN. UM, PROBABLY 18 INCHES OR SO. SURE. ARE WE THINKING ABOUT THE ONE AT THE TOP LEFT OR THE TOP RIGHT, TOP RIGHT, TOP RIGHT. SURE, WE CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT. YEAH. AND THEN THE ONE ON THE LEFT AND THE GABLE OF THAT CAME DOWN ABOUT SIX INCHES OR SO. IT, IT'S JUST THAT THEIR, THEIR PLACE. SO TIED UP INTO THE CABLE, IT FEELS, UM, YEAH, CROWDED THERE. UM, AND I ALSO WOULD SUGGEST, I KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE, UM, THE CHIMNEY. UM, IT WOULD SEEM TO MAKE SENSE THAT IF YOU PUT IT ON THE TV WALL IN THE LIVING ROOM AND THEN IT BECOMES UH, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY VISIBLE AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT, THE CORNER AS YOU'RE COMING AROUND ON THE, THE SECONDARY STREET ON, ON LYNNWAY. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. YEAH, IT DOES. I KNOW IT DOES. IT DOES. OKAY. I KNOW IT WOULD BLOCK THE WINDOW THAT'S IN THE, UM, IN THAT BEDROOM, BUT PERHAPS THERE COULD BE TWO SMALLER WINDOWS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE, THE CHIMNEY AS IT AS IT GOES UP, SO YOU CAN STILL GET LIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UNDERSTOOD. ALRIGHT, ANYONE ELSE WITH A QUESTION? UH, IN THAT CASE, IF WE ARE READY FOR A MOTION ACCOMMODATING THESE CONDITIONS, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. BRAVE MAN. GO AHEAD. . UM, IN THE CASE OF, UM, ITEM A CO A DASH 26 DASH 1 62, ALSO KNOWN AS 3,500 LADI STREET, I MOVED THAT WE APPROVED, UH, THE, UH, REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, UH, BASED ON STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND WITH THE ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS OF MOVING THE FRONT ELEVATION WINDOWS, UH, DOWN ON, ON THE TOP RIGHT DOWN BY ABOUT 18 INCHES. UH, AND ON THE LEFT SIDE DOWN BY ABOUT SIX INCHES. I SECOND WAS THAT COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? COMMISSIONER TAYLOR. OKAY. COMMISSIONER TAYLOR IS OUR SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? YES. WOULD GO FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. I WOULD ABOUT, UM, TWO WINDOWS ON THE SOUTH FACADE TOWARD THE FRONT AND ALSO SOME RESOLUTION TO THAT GABLE THAT IS FLOATING. OH. AS WELL AS THE, SOME RESOLUTION TO THE GABLE, WHICH IS NEEDS TO BE AND MAYBE STILL NEEDS TO, YOU KNOWS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THE GABLE IS, IS FLOATING AND IT NEEDS TO HAVE SOME KIND OF A, A VERTICAL. YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT THE CHIMNEY AS WELL, RIGHT? NO, THAT WAS ME. I'M THE ONE I WAS ABOUT TO SAY YOU LEFT MY CHIMNEY OUT. CHIMNEY IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S DEAL. I DON'T KNOW. THE CHIMNEY WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL, UH, UM, SUGGESTIONS FROM THE STAFF. OH YEAH, EXACTLY. SO, OKAY, VERY GOOD. SO I, SO ADDING TWO WINDOWS TO THE SOUTH FACADE AND ALSO A VERTICAL RESOLUTION TO THE GABLE. I'LL ACCEPT THAT. SIR. . THANK YOU. AND COMMISSIONER TAYLOR, YOU ACCEPT THOSE CHANGES? YES. ALL RIGHTY. ALL THEN. IS THERE CONTEMPT FOR THE DISCUSSION? WE CAN VOTE ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT. THE MOTION HAS CARRIED. SO YOU GO FOR IT, THEN YOU BUILD IT THE WAY WE SAID NOW . ALRIGHT. AND GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. UH, WE APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS TO, TO BUILD SOMETHING COMPATIBLE IN THIS DISTRICT AND YOU'LL KNOW MORE ABOUT TWO TO REVIVAL THAN ANYBODY ELSE WHO BUILDS HOUSES IN THIS CITY. . VERY TRUE. ALL RIGHTY, MR. PERI. SO A MOTION THAT WE, UH, REARRANGE THE AGENDA TO TAKE, UM, NUMBER FOUR BEFORE SIX AND 12, SINCE WE HAVE THE APPLICANT PRESENT, BE VERY PATIENT TO APPLICANT. HE'S HEARD THE WHOLE MEETING. YEAH. SO WHO'S THE SECOND ON THAT? THE SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER CUMMINS. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, [03:15:01] YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT, THEN WE ARE SEATING WITH OUR COURTESY REFUTE NUMBER FOUR. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN PRESENTING COURTESY REVIEW. ITEM NUMBER CR FOUR. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 39 19 WALDRON AVENUE. IN CONS DISTRICT SEVEN. IT'S WITHIN THE QUEEN CITY NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS CURRENTLY UNDER PRE-DESIGN MORATORIUM. THE CASE NUMBER IS COA DASH 26 DASH 1 22. THE REQUEST IS FOR A COURTESY REVIEW OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT INTERIOR LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE. STAFF RECOMMENDATION. SINCE THIS IS A COURTESY REVIEW, NO ACTION IS REQUIRED AND THAT THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING ON A VACANT INTERIOR LOT WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A DETACHED TWO CAR GARAGE, BE CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FINAL DESIGN AS WELL AS ASSOCIATED SITE PLANS, ELEVATIONS, RENDERINGS, AND DETAILS ARE TO BE SUBMITTED FOR LANDMARK COMMISSION REVIEW. TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATION COURTESY REVIEW COMMENTS ONLY SUPPORTIVE WITH THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS. NUMBER ONE, THE FRONT DORMER IS TOO HIGH UP ON THE FRONT ROOF SLOPE. NUMBER TWO, WINDOWS ON THE DORMER ARE TOO SHORT. NUMBER THREE, DRIVEWAY APPEARS TO ENCROACH ON THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. NUMBER FOUR, REDUCE THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY. TOO MUCH HARDSCAPING NOT ENOUGH. GREEN SPACE NUMBER FIVE, TWO PART PORCH. COLUMNS ON THE FRONT AND REAR PORCHES SHOULD HAVE SQUARE, RECTANGULAR, BOTTOMS, NOT FLARED. NUMBER SIX, PORCH COLUMN BOTTOMS SHOULD BE BRICK AND SIT ON GRAY. AND NUMBER SEVEN, THE FOUNDATION SHOULD BE RAISED WITH CRAWLSPACE MINIMUM HEIGHT, 18 INCHES OR APPEAR AND BEAM. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND OUR SPEAKER TODAY IS TRACY WILLIAMS, AND I THINK YOU KNOW OUR DRILL, BUT, UM, JUST, YOU KNOW, COURTESY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL THE TRUTH, JUST NAME AND YOU HAVE TO TELL THE TRUTH AND MAKE PROMISES. BUT GIVE ME YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND WE KNOW WHAT GOES TO TRACY WILLIAMS. SEVEN 11 NORTH BECKLEY AVENUE. UM, SO, SO I'M HERE REPRESENTING DALLAS CITY HOME. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF REAL ESTATE. UH, FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT AWARE, WE'RE A 30-YEAR-OLD NONPROFIT, UH, MAINTAINING AFFORDABILITY IN DALLAS AND, UH, BROADER NORTH TEXAS. UM, WE HAVE, UH, SUPPORTED AND BEEN A SPONSOR FOR THE QUEEN CITY NEIGHBORHOOD FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW. UM, ALONG WITH, UH, CAPACITY BUILDING FOR THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION. AS WE SAW EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON. THERE'S NO EASY TASK AND, UM, REALLY JUST, UH, PROMOTING COMMUNITY AS WE SAW LATER THIS AFTERNOON. IT'S A VERY BRIGHT COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE HAPPY TO BE IN. LAST YEAR WE CONSTRUCTED ONE SINGLE FAMILY, SO IT, UH, MAINTAINED NATURALLY AFFORDABLE. UM, WE ARE APPROACHED, UH, EARLIER THIS YEAR AND WE'RE CURRENTLY, UH, SWINGING HAMMERS AS WE SPEAK ON, UM, A SECOND LOCATION ON EUGENE STREET. AND WE STAND HERE TODAY ACCEPTING THE SEVEN, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF. I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THERE ARE ANY ADDITIONAL BEFORE WE ENCOURAGE, UH, MORE ARCHITECTURAL PIECE. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THEN LET US HEAR WHAT OUR, UM, COMMISSIONERS HAVE TO SAY. I'D LIKE TO MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS. UH, FIRST OF ALL, JUST WANTED TO SAY YOU'VE DONE A BEAUTIFUL JOB WITH THE HOME. I THINK IT'S, UH, IT'S VERY APPROPRIATE. IT HAS SOME LOVELY DETAILS AND I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE, THE ATTENTION YOU PAID TO IT. UM, I AGREE WITH SOME OF THE TASK FORCE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS IN PARTICULAR. UM, AND I WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC ON, UM, THE, UH, THE DORMER THAT'S UP IN THE ROOF, THAT, THAT'S NOT LIVABLE SPACE. SO I MEAN IT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE NECESSARILY THE, THE CLEARANCE TO GET THE, UM, THAT WINDOW AT, RIGHT, AT THE, YOU KNOW, EYE HEIGHT OR WHATEVER. BUT I WOULD SUGGEST TO MOVE IT HALFWAY DOWN THE ROOF, UH, DOWN THAT SLOPE. UM, AND THEN ON THE TAPERS FOR THE BLOCKS, I MEAN FOR THE, UM, THE BASE PORTION OF THE COLUMNS, YEAH, IF THAT ENDS UP BEING, UH, UM, BOXED, I MEAN STRAIGHT INSTEAD OF TAPER, YOU'LL, IT'S EASIER TO DO IT, UH, OUT OF BRICK IF IT'S STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN TOO INSTEAD OF COING EVERYTHING. UM, AND THAT'S REALLY ALL ALL I HAD. I DON'T MIND THE, THE SIZE AND THE PROPORTIONS OF THE WINDOWS THAT WAS, I THINK THAT WAS COMMON FOR THOSE DORMERS THAT THEY FEEL, UM, YOU KNOW, MORE, MORE, MORE HORIZONTAL. UM, BUT YEAH, I THINK YOU HAVE A, UH, A BEAUTIFUL CONSTRUCTION COMING UP [03:20:01] AHEAD. THANK YOU. UM, COMMISSIONER ANDERSON, COULD WE LOOK AT THE WEST FACADE PLEASE? IT WOULD BE HELPFUL. I THINK THE WEST FACADE IS THE UPPER ONE. UH, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ADD A WINDOW OR TWO TO THAT BLANK FACADE TOWARD THE FRONT. THAT IS THE FRONT, ISN'T IT? OH, NO, WAIT A MINUTE. NO, THAT'S, OH NO, THE, THE WEST IS ONE BELOW, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT'S, THAT NEEDS A WINDOW AT THAT CORNER. FRONT CORNER. IS THAT THE FRONT? IT'S HARD. YEAH. WHERE, WHERE'S THE FRONT END OF IT? NO, NO, NO, THAT'S, IT'S THE FRONT. THAT'S THE REAR BECAUSE YOU COULD SEE THE, THE COLUMNS, YOU KNOW, THE OPPOSITE, RIGHT? WELL, I GUESS IT DEPEND ON WHICH ONE ARE YOU LOOKING AT? SO THE EASIEST WAY TO NET THERE. OKAY. THE LOOK AT THE SHED DORMER, THAT'S THE FRONT. YOU SEE THE SHED DORMER. THAT WOULD BE YOUR FRONT. OKAY. SO THERE'S, THERE'S ADEQUATE WINDOWS TO THE FRONT. OKAY. NEVERMIND. OKAY. . ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER, I GOT A QUESTION. MAYBE IT'S ON THERE. I JUST DON'T SEE IT. UH, SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE. IT IS JUST THE GABLES, THESE TWO GABLES THAT I'M SEEING HERE. UM, THERE'D BE ATTIC, I MEAN, UH, YEAH, ATTIC VENTILATION DETAIL. YES. YEAH, I DON'T SEE IT ON THE ELEVATION, SO I JUST FIGURED IT'D BE SOME SORT OF ATTIC VENTILATION DETAIL THERE. GOT IT. YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. . ANYONE ELSE? WELL THAT SOUNDS LIKE ALL THE WISDOM WE HAVE TO OFFER UP TODAY. UM, BUT WE ALWAYS STARTED OFF BY SAYING YOU WERE, DID A GREAT JOB ALREADY, SO I GUESS THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH FORCE TO ADD WHEN YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THE TIME. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO WE'LL SEE YOU BACK SOON WITH YOUR ACTUAL REQUEST FOR APPROVAL TO GO AHEAD AND BUILD IT, RIGHT? OKAY? YES. OKAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. OKAY, SO NOW WE CAN DO DISCUSSION ITEM SIX FOR WHICH WE HAVE NO, NO SPEAKERS. THEY WERE ONLINE EARLIER. THEY'RE STILL ON. OH, WE DO. OH YEAH. IT'S NOT ON OUR LIST. YEAH. OKAY. SO DISCUSSION ITEM D SIX. THIS IS DR. RHONDA DUNN. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CITED AT 7 0 2 ROSS AVENUE IN COUNCIL DISTRICT 14 AND THE WEST END HIT END HISTORIC DISTRICT CASE NUMBER COA DASH 26 DASH 1 36. THE REQUEST IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL OUTDOOR LIGHTING PROGRAMMABLE STRING LIGHTS AROUND THE TOP PERIMETER OF THE MAIN BUILDING STAFF. RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL OUTDOOR LIGHTING FOR MABLE STRING LIGHTS AROUND THE TOP PERIMETER OF THE MAIN BUILDING BE APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS SUBMITTED APRIL 15TH, 2026 WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT ALL ATTACHMENTS FOR LIGHTING FIXTURES, CONDUIT, WIRING, OR MOUNTING HARDWARE BE MADE ONLY THROUGH MORTAR JOINTS AND NOT INTO HISTORIC BRICK. THAT PROGRAMMABLE STRING LIGHTS BE INSTALLED BELOW THE PARAPET AND ANY ORNAMENTAL BRICK DETAILING AT THE TOP OF THE MAIN BUILDING AND THAT COLOR TEMPERATURE AND BRIGHTNESS SHALL BE KEPT LOW INTENSITY USING A NEUTRAL LOW INTENSITY WHITE LIGHT IS PREFERRED. IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS WOULD ALLOW THE PROPOSED WORK TO BE CONSISTENT WITH PRESERVATION CRITERION. SECTION 5.7 PERTAINING TO FACADE APPEARANCE, THE STANDARDS AND CITY CODE SECTION 51 A DASH 4.501 SUBSECTION G SIX C ROMAN AT ONE FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIORS GUIDELINES FOR SETTING DISTRICT AND OR NEIGHBORHOOD. IF THE TASK THAT THE REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL OUTDOOR LIGHTING, PROGRAMMABLE STRING LIGHTS AROUND THE TOP PERIMETER OF THE MAIN BUILDING BE DENIED WITHOUT PREJUDICE, THE APPLICANT HAS NOT PROVIDED ENOUGH INFORMATION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND DO WE HAVE A SPEAKER ONLINE? YES. HELLO, THIS IS RENEE EVERYONE. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. IF YOU COULD SAY YOUR NAME AGAIN AND YOUR [03:25:01] ADDRESS AND, UH, SWEAR OR AFFIRM TO TELL THE TRUTH, PLEASE. YES, MY NAME IS AWA 1 0 3 ADDISON DRIVE, UH, MANSFIELD, TEXAS, AND I SWEAR ALL THE TRUTH. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SIR. SO NOW YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES TO, TO TELL US WHATEVER YOU THINK WE NEED TO KNOW FURTHER ABOUT YOUR WORK PROJECT. YEAH, SO, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE PROPOSING INSTALLATION OF THE ARCHITECTURAL AX AND LIGHTING BY, UH, TRAIN LIGHT ON THE EXTERIOR OF WILD STAKE, UM, RANCH STEAKHOUSE LOCATED ON THE WEST END, UH, HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT. UM, WE, WE PROVIDED AFTER OUR PREVIOUS MEETING, EVERYTHING THAT WAS REQUESTED, UH, ON UM, ALL THE SPECIFICATIONS ON HOW THE, UH, LIGHTS WERE GOING TO BE INSTALLED. I DON'T KNOW IF IT GOT TO THE CORRECT, UH, PERSON WE WERE, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT EVERYTHING WAS, UH, ALREADY UM, SUBMITTED CORRECTLY. OKAY. IN RESPONSE, YES, IT HAS BEEN INCLUDED IN YOUR CASE REPORT, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO READ THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE TASK FORCE. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY FURTHER COMMENT OR DO YOU, ARE YOU READY FOR QUESTIONS NOW? I'M READY FOR QUESTIONS. ALRIGHT, QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER RENO, UH, HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. I KNOW IN THE IMAGERY THAT YOU PROVIDED THE, THE RENDERINGS, UM, IT SHOWED THREE DIFFERENT PATTERNS OF THE LIGHTS. IT'S LIKE, IT'S AS IF EVERYONE IS ON AND THEN EVERY OTHER ONE IS ON AND THEN TWO ARE ON AND A COUPLE ARE OFF. UM, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF, UM, THE INTENTION WAS THAT YOU WOULD CYCLE THROUGH THOSE DIFFERENT PATTERNS OR THEY WERE, WERE SUPPOSED TO BE STATIC. SO THOSE ARE ALL STATIC, UH, PATTERNS AND YES, SO YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE EVERY OTHER LIGHT ON TWO LIGHTS ON, TWO LIGHTS OFF. SO IT'S TOTAL, TOTAL, UH, CUSTOMIZABLE. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. BUT YEAH, IS SHOWING, IS SHOWING THE STATIC PATTERN ON ALL OF THOSE, IS THAT IT COMMISSIONER REGA OR, YES. OKAY. COMMISSIONER OSI. OH, WAS HE FIRST OKAY. I I, UM, I'D LIKE TO CONTINUE WITH THE, THE, THE PROGRAMMABLE LIGHTS. WHAT KIND OF CAPACITY DO THEY HAVE TO DO DIFFERENT COLORS OR DIFFERENT PATTERNS? ARE THEY, THEY RACE OR BLINK? WHAT IS THE CAPACITY FOR THESE LIGHTS? IT HAS ALL THE CAPACITY TO DO, UM, EVERYTHING THE SYSTEM IS IS ALL CUSTOMIZABLE TO DO, TO DO EVERYTHING AND ANY, ANY COLOR CAN BE CREATED. UM, AND OBVIOUSLY IT CAN, IT CAN MOVE BACK AND FORTH. THE REASON I BROUGHT IT UP IS THE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THERE BE A LOW INTENSITY, UM, KIND OF A, A, NOT A REAL BRIGHT LIGHT. UM, I THINK THE CONCERN WE HAVE IS THAT WE, WELL, AT LEAST WHAT I HEARD IN THE BRIEFING, WE PREFER THEM TO BE NOT VERY EXCITING AND NOT BLINKING AND NOT RACING AND NOT MULTIPLE COLORS. UM, YES. AND WE THINK THAT WOULD BE MORE KIND OF STATELY FOR THIS BUILDING. IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT YOU COULD HAVE A, IF, IF WE WENT THAT ROUTE, IS THERE A, A LIGHT KIT THAT YOU COULD USE THAT DOESN'T DO ALL THE, THE FEATURES OR IS THAT THE ONLY WAY IT COMES? NOT, NOT ON THE PERMANENT SOLUTION THAT WE ARE OFFERING AT THIS POINT. SO WE DID GET A STATEMENT FROM THE, FROM THE OWNER OF TONY STREET, UM, ON HOW HE WAS, UM, ACTUALLY WANTING TO USE HIM AND IT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. SO HE IS NOT PLANNING ON, ON HAVING THEM BLINKING. HE IS, UH, ACTUALLY LOOKING FORWARD AL ALSO TO HAVE HIM FOR THE HOLIDAYS CALL, UH, HOLIDAY CALL AND TO HAVE HIM, UM, FOR THE, UH, WORLD CUP, UH, CALLERS AS, AS WE GET, UM, DIFFERENT, UH, COUNTRIES PLAYING IN TOWN. BUT IT, IT IS, IT HAS THE OPTION TO TO DO, TO DO THAT OF COURSE. COMMISSIONER P SO THIS IS A QUESTION FOR STAFF. UH, HOW MANY OTHER BUILDINGS IN THE WEST END, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT HAVE LIGHTS LIKE THIS? WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT IN TASK FORCE, NO ONE COULD IDENTIFY ANOTHER ONE. IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE THINKING THAT THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST. SO HOW IS THIS APPROPRIATE FOR A WAREHOUSE DISTRICT? A WAREHOUSE, HISTORIC WAREHOUSE DISTRICT WOULD NOT HAVE HAD STRING LIGHTS LIKE THIS ON A HISTORIC BUILDING? THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST ? YES, THE FIRST, WELL PERSONALLY I DON'T THINK THIS IS APPROPRIATE FOR, FOR [03:30:01] HISTORIC BUILDING, ESPECIALLY IN A, THE WAREHOUSE DISTRICT LIKE THIS. AND IT IS CONCERNING THAT THESE LIGHTS CAN CHANGE COLOR AND WHETHER THIS OWNER DOES IT OR NEXT OWNER DOES IT OR SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE GONNA BE HAVING MULTIPLE COLORS ON A BUILDING, CHANGING COLOR, ROTATING COLORS, AND THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT, YOU KNOW, APPROPRIATE FOR HISTORIC DISTRICT. ALRIGHT. ANYONE ELSE HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE STAFF OR APPLICANT? I HAVE A QUESTION. THIS COMMISSIONER NOOSA, GO AHEAD. JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY. DOES ANY OTHER WEST END, UH, BUILDING HAVE LIGHTS AS OPPOSED TO WHAT, UH, MR. PREZI COMMISSIONER PREZI SAID? UH, I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS SPECIFIC LIGHTS LIKE THIS QUESTION YES. SPECIFIC LIKE LIGHTS LIKE THAT? THAT WAS MY QUESTION. OKAY. OKAY. AND MY QUESTION IS, DOES ANY OTHER, UH, WEST END BUILDING HAVE LIGHTS, PERIOD, WHETHER THEY'RE LIKE THIS OR NOT? I MEAN, I THINK SOME HAVE EXTERIOR LIGHTS BUT NOT STREAM LIGHTS AROUND THE TOP OF THE BUILDING. SO THEY DON'T HAVE DECORATIVE LIGHTS, THEY HAVE JUST, THEY JUST HAVE THE TYPICAL LIGHT FIXTURES A BUILDING MIGHT HAVE. YEAH. OR, OR LIGHTS ON THEIR SIGNS, UPLIGHTING OR SIGNS SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UHHUH, BUT NOT NECESSARILY, UM, STRING LIGHTING, UH, CHRISTMAS LIKE KIND OF THING. YOU CAN SAY . OKAY. WE SPOKE WITH THE WEST END ASSOCIATION, UM, ONE OF THE REPS. PHILIP NO. KIND OF PRESENTING THE, THE PROJECT AS WELL. THEY WERE, THEY WERE ON BOARD WITH IT AND OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT A HOLIDAY ONLY HOLIDAY UH, LIGHTING SYSTEM. IT IS, IS THE OPTION TO HAVE ACCENT LIGHTING, UM, ON IT. THIS IS PRETTY MUCH ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE INTENT TO DO IT ON, ON THIS, THIS PARTICULAR BUILDING. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. UM, SO ARE THERE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT THEN IT IS TIME FOR US TO HAVE A MOTION. OH, I JUST LOOKED AT THE JUNIOR DE CHOCOLATE IN SAN FRANCISCO AND IT DOES HAVE QUITE SO LONG. YEAH, BUT THAT'S NOT HERE. SO , WE WISH WE WERE SAN FRANCISCO BUT WE'RE NOT MOTION ANYONE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION. THANK YOU SIR. UM, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION SUBJECT TO STAFF RECOMMENDATION SPECIFICALLY THAT NO HISTORIC BRICK IS DRILLED INTO FINDING THAT IT MEETS SECTION 51 A 4.501 G SIX C ROMAN I CRITERIA SECOND, UH, LET ME ASK THE MAKER AND THE SECOND YOU ALSO, YOU WOULD SUPPORT ALL OF STAFF'S CRITERIA? THAT'S CORRECT. INCLUDING, UM, ONLY WHITE LIGHTS, LOW VOLTAGE WHITE LIGHTS BE USED. OKAY. OH, I'M SO SORRY. SURE. THIS IS CONCERNING. UH, FILE NUMBER 26 DASH 1 5 0 4 A, UM, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WEST END H TWO. UM, SUBJECT PROPERTY IS 7 0 2 ROSS AVENUE COUNCIL DISTRICT 14, UM, C UH, COA 26 DASH 0 0 0 1 3 6. ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER PREZI? UM, I WILL NOT BE VOTING IN, IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION JUST BECAUSE OF THE, WELL IT SPECIFICALLY STATES IN THE ORDINANCE. THE DESIGN MATERIALS AND COLOR MUST BE, UH, INDIC INDICATIVE OF WAREHOUSE OR RAILROAD BUILDINGS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY. SO I DON'T BELIEVE BUILDINGS AT THE, UM, EARLY 20TH CENTURY WOULD'VE HAD STRING LIGHTS AROUND THE TOPS OF THE BUILDINGS. MR. ANDERSON, I ALSO WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION FOR THE SAME REASONS AND PARTICULARLY THAT THERE IS A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR THIS RACING LIGHTS, FLASHING LIGHTS, DIFFERENT COLORS, AND THE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING A CERTAIN TYPE OF LIGHT AND CERTAIN D DENSE OR, UM, INTENSITY. BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THAT. ONCE THE LIGHTS ARE INSTALLED, THEY'LL DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. ALRIGHT. ANY, YEAH, IT ONE WILL BE SUPPORTING IT ON BOTH CONDITIONS THAT, UH, WOULD STRING LIGHTS WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE AND GOES AGAINST THE ORDINANCE. AND TWO, IF THERE'S, UH, PROGRAMMABLE FEATURES AND IT'S FILLED [03:35:01] THE DREAMS, BUILD IT AND THEY'LL COME. YOU, YOU, YOU PUT IT IN THERE, IT'LL GET USED. SO I WON'T SUPPORT ANYONE. ALRIGHT, ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. I'M NOT GONNA SAY WHAT I, OKAY. READY TO CALL THE VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES. ALL THOSE OPPOSED PLEASE SAY NO, NO, NO, NO. THAT WAS MORE VOICES THAT I EXPECT WERE, I GUESS WE BETTER DO THE ROLL CALL. VOTE TO BE SURE. OKAY. DISTRICT ONE, COMMISSIONER CUMMINGS. NO. DISTRICT TWO COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY? NO. NO. YEAH. YES. I MEAN, NO, NO, NO. ? YES. YES. DISTRICT THREE. COMMISSIONER FOGELMAN? YES. DISTRICT FOUR COMMISSIONER TAYLOR? YES. YES. DISTRICT FIVE, I'M SORRY. DISTRICT SIX. COMMISSIONER HOSA. YES. DISTRICT SEVEN. COMMISSIONER SMITH? NO. DISTRICT EIGHT COMMISSIONER KY? YES. DISTRICT NINE. COMMISSIONER RENO? YES. DISTRICT 11 COMMISSIONER IN TORONTO? NO. DISTRICT 13 COMMISSIONER POSI? NO. DISTRICT 14 COMMISSIONER HARPER? NO. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON? NO. COMMISSIONER REEDS? YES. IT'S SIX. YES. AND SEVEN NOTES. ALL RIGHTY. YEAH, WE, WE ARE NOW AN ODD NUMBER, WHICH IS PERFECT FOR US. ALL RIGHT. UM, SO WE ARE GOING TO NEED ANOTHER MOTION IF ANYONE CAN THINK OF SOMETHING THEY THINK MIGHT HAVE MORE SUCCESS. AND I WILL WARN YOU THAT I COULD SEE A LOT OF THESE LIGHTS ALL OVER THE WEST END AND IT IS A FESTIVAL AREA WHERE YOU GO OUT FOR NIGHTLIFE AND YOU CAN'T SEE THE BUILDINGS AT NIGHT. I STILL VOTED GO TO THE PREVIOUS ONE, BUT I COULD JUST SEE THAT IT, IT WOULD BE APPEALING FOR THE COMMERCE IN THE AREA. BUT WE MIGHT START A TREND. WE COULDN STOP AND I'LL MAKE AN, I'LL MAKE ANOTHER MOTION. I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH THE FOLLOWING, UH, CONDITIONS THAT THE LIGHT PACKAGE INCLUDE ONLY WHITE SOLID LIGHTS THAT ARE INCAPABLE OF BEING PROGRAMMED, ONLY BEING TURNED ON AND OFF WITH THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, UM, THEY NOT BE, UM, HANG ON ONE SECOND. WHAT NUMBER WAS THIS? NO, IT FAILS. SO NOW HE'S DOING A DUE MOTION, WHICH EMPHATICALLY REQUIRES A VERY DULL LIGHT , RIGHT. THAT'S NON PROGRAMMABLE. THAT CAN'T BE CHANGED COLORS. UM, AND THAT THEY MUST BE BELOW THE PARAPET OR, UM, AND NO DRILLING INTO THE HISTORIC BRICK. SECOND. OKAY. ACTUALLY I HAVE TO SAY OUR FIRST SECOND WAS COMMISSIONER REEVES. ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ONE? WHICH HAS NOTICEABLY CHANGED AND THAT THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE LIGHTS, RACE, OR EXPOSED COLORS BECAUSE WE'RE SAYING THEY HAVE TO HAVE LESS SMART LIGHTS. , THEY CAN ONLY DO ONE THING, TURN ON AND TURN OFF COMMISSIONER HARPER. YEAH. UM, MAYBE WANTED TO OFFER A, UH, AN AMENDMENT TO, TO CONTROL THE COLOR TEMPERATURE. UM, I I DO KNOW THERE WAS CON HAS BEEN CONCERTED EFFORTS BY THE DEEP EL, I'M SORRY, THE WEST END DISTRICT AND ALSO DOWNTOWN DALLAS INC. TO TRY AND STANDARDIZE BECAUSE THERE WAS BRIGHT BLUE LEB LIGHTS. EVERYTHING DOWN THERE HAS REALLY MEANT TO LOOK LIKE INCANDESCENT LIGHT, WHICH WOULD BE WARM WHITE, 2,700 TO 3000 KELVIN. THAT WOULD MAKE DIFFERENCE. I, I ALSO INTEND TO LEAN TOWARDS COMMISSIONER PRE'S CONCERNED ABOUT THAT LIVE AND TYPE IN GENERAL THOUGH. UM, BUT IF IT WERE TO PASS, I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST I'M FINE WITH THAT. [03:40:01] AMENABLE TO WARM WHITE SURE. AS A COLOR TEMPERATURE, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. WITH THOSE SPECIFICATIONS AS IT. ALRIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? UM, I STILL HAVE THE SAME ISSUE JUST WITH, THAT'S NOT TYPICAL OF THE BUILDING. I KNOW SOMETIMES THESE ARE USED FOR LIKE HOLIDAY TIMES OF YEAR AND, AND THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE IT'S A TEMPORARY USE. BUT UH, HAVING IT ALL YEAR ROUND TO ME IS JUST, UH, IS AN ISSUE. YES. ALRIGHT. I I CAN CERTAINLY SEE THAT POINT OF VIEW. I WOULD POINT OUT THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD THE INSTALLATION REQUIRES ENOUGH OF A CHANGE, THEY HAD TO COME TO US. IT IS REVERSIBLE SO LONG AS THEY ONLY FILL IN THE MOTOR JOINTS, IT'S NOT FOREVER. AND SOMEDAY THIS LIGHT THING WILL NO LONGER BE FASHIONABLE. COMMISSIONER, WE NOT, WE'RE IN DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW, SO YEAH, WE GET, THIS IS WHEN WE STATE OUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. I, OKAY. I COULD HAVE SWORN I WAS RIGHT AND I FOUND THE PHOTOGRAPH, BUT THE OLD SPAGHETTI WAREHOUSE IN THE WEST END USED TO HAVE YEAH, THEY DID LIGHTS ALL WAY MORE THAN WHAT'S PROPOSED HERE. I COULD HAVE SWORN I SAW IT AND I FOUND THEM. THANK YOU. WHAT A THING FOR YOU TO REMEMBER THAT I JUST, I NEED A CLARIFICATION. THERE, THERE ARE NO RACING OR BLINKING LIGHTS ALSO CORRECT? OKAY. THAT'S CORRECT. ALRIGHT. SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS NEW MOTION, PLEASE SAY YES, YES, YES, YES, YES. ALL THOSE OPPOSED PLEASE SAY NO. NO. YES. ALL. SO WE STILL LOVE YOU . ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, TO OUR, TO OUR APPLICANT, SIR, YOU HAVE GOTTEN APPROVAL FOR LIGHTS WITH A NARROW DESCRIPTION OF WHAT TYPE OF LIGHTS MAY BE PLACED, PLACED IN THERE. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LIMITATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PLACED UPON YOU ON THOSE LIGHTS AND STAFF WOULD BE HAPPY TO HELP YOU. OKAY? OKAY. SO I KNOW IF YOU'RE TRYING TO HAVE 'EM UP AT LEAST BEFORE THE WORLD CUP, YOU BETTER START SOON . SO, OKAY. AND I HOPE THAT THIS, WELL, THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE TO HAVE THE DIFFERENT, THE DIFFERENT COLORS FOR THE WORLD CUP. OF COURSE. WELL, YOU CAN DISPLAY A FLAG OUTSIDE OR PUT HIM ON THE TREES. ALL RIGHTY. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE ONLY ONE LEFT PERMIT FOR WHICH MR. POSI MUST RECUSE HIMSELF. HE IS GONNA TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SNEAK OUT EARLY AND GO HOME. WELL, WE ALL CONTINUE TO LABOR. UGH. ALL RIGHTY. ITEM NUMBER 12. YES. MISCELLANEOUS ITEM M 12. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ISSA PARIS. I'M PRESENTING ON BEHALF OF CITY STAFF REGARDING MISCELLANEOUS ITEM M 12. THE REQUEST IS TO REVIEW NATIONAL REGISTERED NOMINATION FORM FOR 8 7 7 7 NORTH STEM FREEWAY, COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE MARY KAY BUILDING AT THE BEHEST OF THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. ALRIGHTY. UH, SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS SEND OUR THOUGHTS ON WHETHER THERE'LL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL DECIDE WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO BE A NATIONAL REGISTER, LANDMARK OR NOT. SO THOUGHTS, I KNOW YOU HAD A LOT OF THOUGHTS ALREADY, BUT HAVE SOME MORE. I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. I JUST DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WERE TWO MARY KAY BUILDINGS. I DIDN'T KNOW THE ONE THAT'S PINK, SO. RIGHT. THIS IS NOT THE, THE ICONIC PINK BUILDING. THIS WAS HER FIRST BUILDING. YEP. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? UM, SEEMED LIKE A VERY GOOD DESIGNATION REPORT THAT THEY HAD DONE, UM, THOROUGH, CERTAINLY MARY KAY IS IMPORTANT TO OUR LOCAL HISTORY AND A LARGER HISTORY OF EMPLOYMENT FOR WOMEN IN THE POST-WAR PERIOD AND MANY, MANY OTHER THINGS. UM, THE BUILDING IN QUESTION IS UNIQUE LOOKING, NOT TOO WELL TASTE, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY THAT MEANS THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT VALUABLE. IT IS. SOME PEOPLE LOVE IT, SOME PEOPLE DON'T. BUT IT IS A VALUABLE PART OF OUR ARCHITECTURE HISTORY, IT SEEMS TO ME. MR. HARPER. YEAH. I DO JUST HAVE A QUESTION. DO WE KNOW WHAT THE IMPETUS FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTERED LISTING IS TO THE OWNER INITIATE THAT? UH, ARE THEY DOING IT TO PURSUE TAX CREDITS? DO WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHY OR HOW WE'RE YEAH, WE'RE ONLY GUESSING AT IT THAT MAYBE THEY'RE, THEY'RE HOPING TO USE SOME TAX CREDITS TO DO SOME WORK. ALRIGHT. SO DO WE NEED TO HAVE A VOTE THAT WE ARE IN SUPPORT OR NOT IN SUPPORT? THIS? WE SEND BACK THAT, UH, WE'LL HAVE A VOTE AND THEN WE USUALLY SEND BACK THAT THE LANDMARK COMMISSION SUPPORTS IT. ALRIGHT, SO THAT MEANS I NEED A MOTION TO EITHER SUPPORT OR NOT. MADAM COMMISSIONER TO ASK A QUESTION. COMMISSIONER HARPER, COULD, COULD YOU TELL US JUST EVER SO BRIEFLY HOW [03:45:01] THE TAX CREDITS WORK? I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW THE TAX, I'M SORRY. COULD YOU, COULD YOU EVER SO BRIEFLY DESCRIBE HOW THE TAX CREDITS WORK? SURE. UM, SO IF, IF A BUILDING IS ELIGIBLE OR LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER, UM, NOW I'M, I'M NO TAX CREDIT EXPERT AND SOMEBODY ELSE IN IN HERE PROBABLY COULD DO BETTER THAN I CAN, BUT BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT THEY DO, A L HAS TO GO THROUGH THE STATE. UM, SO IT'LL GO BE REVIEWED BY THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION, NOT BY US. UH, BUT THEY, IT IS A TAX CREDIT FOR, WHAT IS IT NOW? 2020? YEAH, GO AHEAD. OKAY. LIKE, LIKE MARK SAID, IT ALWAYS GOES THROUGH THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION IN AUSTIN. AND INITIALLY THERE WAS A 20%, 25, 20% TAX RATE FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH TAKE, TAKE OFF YOUR FEDERAL INCOME TAX. UM, ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT YEARS AGO, THE STATE OF TEXAS JOINED THAT WITH A 25% TAX CREDIT. BUT, BUT, AND THAT TAKES OFF THE STATE FRANCHISE TAX. BUT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GET THE NATIONAL REGISTER FIRST AND THEN THE STATE JUMPS UPON ON TOP OF THERE. BUT ALL THE BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN DALLAS THAT ARE ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER ALL GOT 45% TAX CREDIT. AND THAT'S A BIG DEAL AND IT'S REALLY GREAT 'CAUSE IT'S A TAX CREDIT, NOT A DEDUCTION. SO, BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT, UH, IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE PROPERTY TAXES THAT THE, THAT THE ACCOUNT WOULD, THIS IS ON INCOME TAX. OKAY. AND THE OTHER THING YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THE NATIONAL REGISTER DOESN'T HAVE ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS. IT'S REALLY KIND OF A, A, A MERIT BADGE. IT DOESN'T PROTECT ANYTHING. YOU CAN DEMOLISH THE BILL, YOU CAN PAINT IT PINK, NOTHING. BUT WHEN YOU APPLY FOR THE TAX CREDITS, IT GETS VERY INVOLVED IN INTERIOR, EXTERIOR CHANGES ARE LOOKED AT AND ALL IN ORIGINAL MATERIALS NEED TO BE RETAINED. THAT'S THE NICE THING ALSO ABOUT IF THEY USE EFFECTS CREDIT IS THERE IS A HIGHER LEVEL OF REVIEW THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN JUST BEING ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER. OKAY. UH, EVEN INTERIOR WITH, WE DON'T EVEN DO. THANK YOU MUCH. ALRIGHT. ANYONE HAVE A MOTION? I MOVE. WE APPROVE THE MARY KAY BUILDING. OH, WE, WE ON EIGHT SEVEN VOICE OUR SUPPORT. I'M SORRY. WE SAY THAT WE'RE SUPPORTIVE. WE CAN'T APPROVE IT OR NOT. OH, I'M SORRY. UM, I RECOMMEND THAT WE SUPPORT THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FOR 8 7 7 7 NORTH STEMS FREEWAY, THE MARY, THE ORIGINAL MARY KAY COSMETICS BUILDING. SECOND. SECOND. OUR SECOND IS COMMISSIONER IN TORONTO. ALL I NEED EVERYBODY READY TO VOTE HIM. WE HAVE BEEN ABANDONED BY TWO OF OUR COMMISSIONERS. , YOU NEED TO VOTE. ALRIGHT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION TO SUPPORT AND TO SEND OUR SUPPORT TO THE NATIONAL REGISTER PROCESS. SAY YES. YES. ANYONE OPPOSED? OKAY. IT HAS CARRIED. NOW DON'T GO AWAY. WE STILL HAVE ONE MORE THING. THE MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE MINUTES AS THEY WERE SENT TO US BY ELAINE IN EMAIL? NOPE. ALL RIGHT, THEN DO I HAVE A MOTION? MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER ROSKI AND COMMISSIONER REEVES. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES? PLEASE SAY YES. YES, YES, YES. ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT, THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. THAT CONCLUDES OUR BUSINESS FOR THE DAY. IT IS FOUR 50 AND UH, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.