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[Civil Service on August 4, 2026.]
AND TODAY IS TUESDAY, UH, AUGUST 4TH, 2026.AND I'M CALLING A MEETING IN ORDER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.
AND THIS IS OUR REGULAR AUGUST MEETING.
UM, WE HAVE A FULL HOUSE, A, A FULL FORUM TODAY, AND, UM, WE DO SOME PROCEDURE ISSUES.
WE'RE GONNA PROCEED WITH OUR REGULAR AGENDA.
SAFETY, VERY SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, AND THEN WE'LL GET TO THE HANDY MINUTES BEFORE US.
UM, THE FIRST ITEM ON THE, WE HAVE NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS.
TODAY IS OKAY, NO PUBLIC SPEAKERS.
OUR NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS IS, UH, ITEM FOR FREE APPROVAL OF MINUTES, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE, OF THE, EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE MAY 5TH, 2026 LETTER, CIVIL SERVICE BOARD MEETING.
ANYBODY HAD ANY REVISIONS TO THOSE HEARING THAT I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? MAY, MAY 5TH, 2026.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING NONE.
ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR HAND AND SAY AYE.
UH, TODAY, UH, WE HAVE NO OTHER BRIEFING DISCUSSION ITEMS. I DO WANT TO INTRODUCE OUR NEW MEMBERS TODAY.
UH, WE ARE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS AT FULL STRENGTH OF SEVEN MEMBERS, BUT WE GONNA KEEP IT THAT WAY, BUT AS LONG WE CAN.
INSTEAD, I WANT TO, YOU WOULD GIVE THE TIME TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF.
IT'S A PRETTY OPEN-ENDED, UH, QUESTION THERE.
I, UH, I'M A DALLAS RESIDENT SINCE 2000, UH, MOVED HERE FROM NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA.
AND, UH, MET MY WIFE, DAUGHTER, RAISED HER.
UH, PROFESSIONAL CAREER IS IN THE LOVE, SALES AND TECHNOLOGY AND HR AND, UH, BENEFITS.
WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR, WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE ON THE BOARD AND WANNA WELCOME YOU.
AND, UH, THIS, UH, THIS WILL NOT BE A USEFUL MEETING.
UM, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, JARED, THERE'S SOMETHING, THERE'S NOTHING FURTHER OR ANY, ANY REPORT FROM YOU OR NO, SIR.
I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO REPORT, UM, CONSIDERING THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR GRIEVANCE ITEM IS OUR, IS OUR PRIMARY ITEM TODAY.
WELL, THIS TAKES US NOW TO THE, UH, THE GRIEVANCE OF BILL STYLE.
AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE BEGAN THIS IN MAY, UH, DUE TO SOME TESTING ISSUES WE HAD TO CONTINUE IT TO, UM, I THINK WE CONTINUED IT, MAKE, GONNA GET A QUORUM, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, AND THEN CONTINUED IT THE DAY AND DATE.
AND MR. BLOCK WAS ONE OUT TO PARTICIPATING IN WITH THIS, WITH THIS TODAY.
'CAUSE HE WAS NOT ON THE PANEL THAT HEARD THE, UH, THE, UH, THAT BEGAN THE GRIEVANCE APPEAL.
SO, AS I RECALL, UH, ALL EXHIBITS HAVE BEEN, UH, APPROVED, ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.
UH, WE HAD CONCLUDED THE TESTIMONY OF ONE WITNESS, AND THEN WE, WE, AND WE HAD OPEN STATEMENTS AND HAD THE TESTIMONY OF ONE WITNESS THAT WE DIDN'T ISSUE WITH THE, UH, WITH THE DEFENDANT A WITNESS.
AM I, MR. SNYDER? MS. AM I MISSING ANYTHING HERE? MR. CHEN? THE ONLY THING I, I WOULD SAY, BEFORE YOU GET INTO ANY MORE DETAIL, I BELIEVE THE RULE WILL HAS TO VOTE.
SO IF ANYBODY HERE, I GUESS GOING TO BE, UH, POTENTIAL WITNESS, AND, AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE, I DON'T BE SWORN WITNESSES, BUT WE'LL DO SO AGAIN TODAY.
GREENWOOD'S GONNA TESTIFY, UH, WHO'S LOOKING IN THE ROOM.
SO IF ANYBODY IS HERE, WHO'S GONNA TESTIFY WHEN YOU STAND UP, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
WE'LL HAVE THE, UH, COURT REPORT, UH, SWEAR YOU IN.
AGAIN, I, IF WE DID THIS IN MAY, I, I FORGOT, BUT WE WILL DO IT AGAIN.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH AND THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? SO, THANK YOU.
AND THE RULES BEEN EVOKED, AS YOU KNOW, THAT MEANS THAT THOSE OF YOU ARE GONNA TESTIFY.
YOU, YOU CAN'T STAY IN HERE AND LISTEN, YOU JUST HAD, IF YOU CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER OUT IN THE HALLWAY.
BUT, UH, JUST BE HOWEVER YOU, YOU'VE WORKED OUT A CLIENT OR YOUR, YOUR WITNESSES TO BE AVAILABLE WHEN THEY, FOR A CALL FOR, FOR TESTIMONY.
REMEMBER PART THAT PUTS MR SIDE, YOUR, YOUR DOING YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION OF YOUR NECK.
MR. JUDGE, IT'S ANOTHER THROAT CLEARING THING.
AND I, I COMMUNICATED WITH, WITH MR. SNYDER ABOUT THIS.
UH, SOME OF THE WITNESSES, UH, FOR DPD ARE CURRENTLY LOCATED 10 MINUTES AWAY AT HEADQUARTERS.
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SAID THAT, THAT HE'D WORK WITH ME AS BEST HE COULD, AND, YOU KNOW, TO GIVE THE HEADS UP WHEN HE NEEDS, HE COULD BE CALLING THEM.BUT JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT SOME OF MY WITNESSES ARE ABOUT 10 TO 15 MINUTES AWAY.
WE NEED TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK SO YOU CAN CONTACT HIM OR WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO THAT.
I NEEDED TO CALL ONE OF MY WITNESSES THAT'S ONLINE.
I'M, I'M SORRY, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME HEARING YOU.
UH, SERGEANT ELL, CAN YOU SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME, PLEASE? SURE, SURE.
LAST NAME AL, F AS IN FRANK, EH AS IN HENRY, M AS IN MARY, EL AS IN LINCOLN.
UH, IS SHE ON THE SCREEN NOW? THERE, SHE OKAY.
CAN YOU, CAN WE NEED TO SWEAR? SORRY, COULD YOU, CAN YOU HEAR US? I'M SORRY.
YES, WE DO NEED TO SWEAR HER IN.
MSEL, WILL YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? YES, MA'AM.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? YES, MA'AM.
MAY I JUST CLEAR A BRIEF SIDEBAR MR. SNY? OKAY.
UH, SERGEANT STONEWELL, HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? I'M SORRY, SIR, HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? HOW AM I EMPLOYED? I'M A SERGEANT WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT? UH, 19 YEARS AND A COUPLE MONTHS.
I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT, UH, YOUR, YOUR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF SERGEANT.
WHEN WERE YOU PROMOTED TO THE RANK OF SERGEANT? IN AUGUST OF 25.
AND, UM, AT, AT THE TIME YOU WERE BEING PROMOTED, WERE YOU, UH, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT POLICY REGARDING OFFICERS THAT ARE PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING PATROL DUTIES? YES, SIR.
AND WERE YOU, UH, PART OF THAT PROGRAM? UNFORTUNATELY, YES, SIR.
AND SO AS PART OF THE, UH, DEPARTMENT'S POLICY, UH, THE DEPARTMENT MADE A, THEY REASONABLY ACCOMMODATED YOUR DISABILITY, IS THAT CORRECT? ARE YOU ASKING, DID THEY YEAH.
DURING, DURING THAT PROGRAM, DID YOU GET A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION FOR YOUR DISABILITY FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? OH, YES SIR.
AND SO THE RANK YOU WERE PRIOR TO PROMOTING THE RANK SERGEANT WAS SENIOR CORPORAL, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT, YES, SIR.
AND SO, UH, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT, UH, THE TIME THAT YOU WERE A SENIOR CORPORAL AND YOU WERE NOTIFIED THAT YOU WOULD BE, THAT YOU, YOU HAD TESTED AND PASSED THE SERGEANT'S TEST.
I WANNA ASK YOU ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME IN YOUR CAREER, ALRIGHT? OKAY.
AND THAT WAS LAST SUMMER, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
WHY DON'T YOU, UH, TO, UH, TELL ME ABOUT, UH, DID YOU HAVE, WERE YOU EVER TOLD THAT YOU WE'RE NOT GOING TO PROMOTE AFTER THE RANK OF SERGEANT BY SOMEONE IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? NOT AFTER THE RANK OF SERGEANT.
I WAS TOLD THAT I WOULD NOT BE PROMOTED TO SERGEANT DUE TO BEING ON, UH, LIGHT DUTY.
AND WHO TOLD YOU THAT? UH, THE FIRST ONE WAS BEATRICE ALVAREZ.
SHE STATED THAT I WOULD NOT BE PROMOTED TO SERGEANT DUE TO BEING ON LIGHT DUTY.
HOWEVER, IF I CLEARED FROM LIGHT DUTY, I WOULD BE ABLE TO BE PROMOTED.
AND THEN I RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM, EXCUSE ME, FROM THE CHIEF OVER PERSONNEL, UM, TELLING ME THE SAME THING.
SO MS. ALVAREZ, MS. BEAT ALVAREZ, UH, THE MEETING YOU HAD WITH HER, WAS THAT IN PERSON? UH, IT WAS OVER THE PHONE AND IN PERSON? YES, SIR.
WHICH ONE, DID YOU HAVE THE PHONE CONVERSATION
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WITH HER FIRST AND THEN THE IN-PERSON CONVERSATION, OR WAS IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND? UH, IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND.WE GOT CALLED INTO THE OFFICE ABOUT OUR PAPERWORK, AND THEN I GOT A PHONE CALL STATING THAT I WOULD NOT BE PROMOTED DUE TO THE PERMANENT LIGHT DUTY.
HOWEVER, I HAD, I DON'T KNOW, SIX TO 12 WEEKS.
IF I COULD CLEAR OFF PERMANENT LIGHT DUTY, THEY WOULD PROMOTE ME TO SERGEANT AND BACKDATE IT.
DID MS. ALVAREZ TELL YOU WHOSE DECISION THAT WAS? UM, I DO NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT RECALL.
STATE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT TRUE.
UM, BUT, BUT THE CHIEF OVER PERSONNEL DID CALL ME SEVERAL HOURS AFTER I TALKED TO BEATRICE WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT I KNEW THAT I COULDN'T BE PROMOTED.
WHO IS THAT? WHO'S THAT CHIEF? I BELIEVE AT THE TIME I BELIEVE IT WAS CHIEF HERRERA.
SO THE PHONE CONVERSATION WITH CHIEF HERRERA, HE ALSO TOLD YOU YOU WOULD NOT PROMOTE IF YOU WERE A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER RESTRICTED FROM PATROL FUNCTIONS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAD SPOKEN TO BEATRICE AND THAT I KNEW THAT I COULDN'T BE PROMOTED DUE TO BEING ON MY DUTY.
AND SO MS. ALVAREZ GAVE YOU THE OPTIONS? WELL, THE, THE TWO POSSIBILITIES THAT YOU NOT PROMOTE OR THAT YOU PROMOTE ONLY ON THE CONDITION THAT YOU, YOUR DISABILITY GOES AWAY, CORRECT? UH, CORRECT.
AND THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO, UM, IT WOULD ONLY BE PROMOTED AFTER I GOT CLEARED OR GOT OFF LIGHT DUTY.
DID YOU GET CLEARED AS SHE WANTED YOU OR AS SHE SUGGESTED? UH, NO, SIR.
BUT DID YOU GET PROMOTED? YES, SIR.
DO YOU KNOW HOW THAT OCCURRED, HOW THAT OCCURRED? I CONTACTED THE DPA, UM, AND SPOKE TO THEM AND SPOKE TO A LAWYER AS WELL FROM THE DPA, WHO I BELIEVE CALLED, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS THE CITY ATTORNEY OR THIS, OR CONTACTED SOMEBODY ELSE.
AND SO THEN I GOT A PHONE CALL SAYING THAT I WOULD BE, IN FACT, BEGINNING OF PROMOTED.
YOU MEAN THE DALLAS POLICE ASSOCIATION, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
I CALLED THE DALLAS POLICE ASSOCIATION AND THEN SPOKE TO A LAWYER.
AND EARLIER YOU MENTIONED, I THINK YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT GOING TO THE OFFICE TO TALK TO MS. UH, ALVAREZ, UH, IN PERSON, YOU SAID THAT YOU SAID WE WAS ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU WHEN YOU WENT TO THE OFFICE? SO NOBODY ELSE WAS WITH ME, BUT EVERYBODY THAT WAS ON LIGHT DUTY GOT CALLED AND HAD TO GO TO THE OFFICE, UM, AND LOOK AT OUR PAPERWORK AND ALL OF THAT OTHER STUFF.
UM, BECAUSE APPARENTLY THE CHIEF HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, THE LIGHT DUTY OR WHATEVER.
SO WE GOT CALLED TO THE OFFICE.
UH, MY NAME IS, UH, GREG BARN.
I'M WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, UH, THIS MORNING.
JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS.
THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD IS, IS PRETTY RARE OF THE PROCESS, BUT CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE IDEA WHEN YOU, YOU TALK ABOUT SITTING FOR THE TEST FOR SERGEANT, LIKE WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL? UH, YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR APPLICATION IN.
CIVIL SERVICE WILL TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE ELIGIBLE OR NOT.
AND THEN THE DAY OF THE TEST, YOU GO TO CITY HALL AND YOU SIT AND TAKE THE TEST.
AND WHAT HAPPENS AFTER YOU TAKE THE TEST? AND I, I, I'LL TRY TO BEAT A LITTLE BIT HERE, BUT EVENTUALLY THERE'S A LIST THAT'S CREATED FOR THAT, CORRECT? YES.
YOU TAKE THE TEST, IF YOU PASS, YOU GET PUT ON A LIST AND YOU HAVE FOR SERGEANT, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH, UM, AN IN-PERSON MULTI-QUESTION TEST.
ONCE THAT'S DONE, THE LIST COMES OUT AND YOU'RE IN THERE BASED ON RANK, AND THEN YOU GET PROMOTED OFF OF THAT LIST.
SO THE, THE PROMOTIONS OCCUR BASED ON YOUR RANKING ON THAT LIST, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
AND WHEN DID YOU SIT FOR THAT TEST? WHEN DID I SIT FOR THAT? WHEN DID I SIT FOR THAT TEST? UH, TO BE HONEST, SIR, I DON'T REMEMBER.
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OKAY.UH, AND DO YOU, DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE BILL LIST WAS ACTUALLY PUBLISHED? UH, NO SIR.
UM, BUT YOU WERE PROMOTED TO, TO SERGEANT IN AUGUST OF 2025, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
AND AT THE TIME OF YOUR PROMOTION, YOU HAD NOT CLEARED LUNA DUTY, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND WAS ANYBODY BELOW YOU RANKED LOWER THAN YOU ON THAT LIST? PROMOTED AHEAD? PROMOTED AHEAD OF ME? NO, SIR.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS MR. SCHNEIDER? NO.
SERGEANT FIWELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PARTICIP UH, PARTICIPATION TODAY.
WE APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
SIR, DO I NEED TO DO ANYTHING? BE MS. TORRES, CAN YOU HEAR US? YES, I CAN HEAR YOU.
CAN YOU TURN HER VIDEO ON? CAMERA? ON, THERE YOU GO.
MS. TORRES, CAN YOU HEAR US? YES.
UH, COULD YOU GIVE YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME? EXCUSE ME? WE DO SWEAR TO HURRY IN.
OKAY, MS. TORE, WILL YOU PLEASE WA YOUR RIGHT HAND? DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU BOTH? I DO.
COULD YOU GO AHEAD AND STATE YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME? MY FIRST AND LAST NAME? MARIA TORRES.
AND, UH, MS. FLORES, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR EMPLOYMENT WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
LAST YEAR YOU WERE EMPLOYED WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? I'M SORRY? I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR EMPLOYMENT WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
NOW, LAST YEAR YOU WERE SWORN OF OFFICER WITH THE DEPARTMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
AND YOU HAVE SINCE LEFT THE DEPARTMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
WHAT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT IS, UH, THE PROMOTIONAL EXAM FOR POLICE SERGEANT.
UH, NOW IN SOMETIME, UH, 2025 OR TWO BEFORE THAT, YOU TOOK THE TEST TO PROMOTE TO THE RANK OF SERGEANT, IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT.
AND YOUR RANK AT THAT TIME WAS SENIOR CORPORAL, CORRECT? YES.
AND AT THAT PERIOD OF TIME, UH, WHEN YOU WORKED AS A SENIOR CORPORAL FOR THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, UH, WERE YOU IN A, IN A, UH, SOMETHING THAT'S REFERRED TO AS A LIGHT DUTY, UH, OFFICER POSITION? YES.
AND SO THAT IS, UH, WAS THAT, UM, A POSITION WHERE YOU WERE PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING, UH, ALL THE ESSENTIAL JOB FUNCTIONS OF A POLICE OFFICER? YES.
AND THE DEPARTMENT AT THAT TIME WAS ACCOMMODATING YOU DUE TO A DISABILITY, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND SO YOU TESTED TO PROMOTE TO SERGEANT, AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT, UH, DID, WERE YOU TOLD AT ANY POINT THAT YOU WERE NOT GOING TO PROMOTE BECAUSE OF YOUR, BECAUSE YOU WERE A DISABLED OFFICER? YES.
CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT WHEN THAT HAPPENED? WHO TOLD YOU THAT, HOW THAT OCCURRED? UH, LIKE SERGEANT FML SAID, UM, AFTER WE TURNED IN OUR PAPERWORK TO PERSONNEL, UM, WE WERE CALLED TO, TO, UH, BEATRICE ALRE, UM, OFFICE, UH, ONE BY ONE.
AND, UM, WHEN I WENT, WHEN I WAS CALLED, I MET WITH HER ONE-ON-ONE AND SHE SAID, I REMEMBER HER SAYING THERE WERE TWO OF YOU, BUT SHE DIDN'T TELL ME WHO THE OTHER PERSON WAS.
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THE CHIEF DIDN'T UNDERSTAND LIGHT DUTY, THAT MOST AGENCIES RETIRE PEOPLE WHEN THEY CAN'T PERFORM THE FULL FUNCTION ANYMORE.SO THE CHIEF CUOMO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND LIGHT DUTY AND HE REALLY WANTED TO PROMOTE ME, BUT I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO, UM, CLEAR TO FULL DUTY FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.
IF I COULD ASK ONE QUICK QUESTION, MS. TORRES, YOU SAID YOU WENT TO YOU WHEN YOU STARTED YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU WENT TO AL SOMETHING? I I I, WE I CANNOT UNDERSTAND YOU.
LIKE, UM, SERGEANT ELL HAD SAID WE WERE CALLED.
OH, YOU, THE RULE IS SHE, SHE HEARD THAT TESTIMONY.
WHY DON'T YOU ASK HER, I MEAN, DID YOU HEAR, DID YOU HEAR SERGEANT GEL'S TESTIMONY? AS FAR AS, YES.
THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT THE APPELLANT'S FAULT.
LEMME I CALL HIM FOR PURPOSE OF THIS WITNESS.
WE CAN PROCEED, BUT I WOULD JUST ASK FOR, FOR FUTURE JUST TO DOUBLE CHECK.
UH, SO MS. TORRES, DID YOU, SO YOU WENT AND YOU SPOKE PERSONALLY WITH MS. BEATRIZ ALVAREZ, IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
AND SHE MENTIONED CHIEF OMO BY NAME, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT, YES.
ONE MORE THING, MR. CHAIR, AT THIS TIME, IS IT POSSIBLE TO ENSURE THAT OTHER WITNESSES IN THE WAITING ROOM ARE NOT HEARING THIS TESTIMONY AS WELL? AND DO WE HAVE ANY, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER WITNESSES IN THE WAITING ROOM? I ACTUALLY ASK YOU TO CHECK REAL QUICK.
SO I THINK THE LAST THING I ASKED YOU WAS ABOUT, BUT THE GUY ASKED ME, THERE ARE NO MORE WITNESSES.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SHOULD BE THOSE THINK SO.
THERE, RIGHT THERE, MS. MARISSA, SHE'S IN, SHE'S IN OUR OFFICE.
YOU OKAY? YEAH, SHE ALL, SORRY.
UH, SO MS. TORRES, UH, SO MS. ALVAREZ, UH, YOU SAID SHE TOLD YOU THAT YOU WOULD NOT PROMOTE TO THE RANK OF SERGEANT IF YOU REMAINED IN YOUR LIGHT DUTY, UH, RESTRICTED CAPACITY.
AND DID YOU, AND YOU HAD THAT PER FACE-TO-FACE MEETING WITH MS. ALVAREZ, DID YOU TALK TO HER ANY AGAIN ABOUT THAT AT ANY, ANY TIME? UH, MULTIPLE TIMES, UH, OVER THE PHONE AFTER THAT, BECAUSE THEN SHE WAS ON VACATION.
AND SO, UM, DID ANYONE ELSE, UH, TELL YOU, ANYONE ELSE IN THE DEPARTMENT TELL YOU THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD PROMOTE TO SERGEANT WAS TO GET YOURSELF REMOVED FROM THE LIGHT DUTY RESTRICTION? NO, I DID GET CONTACTED BY CHIEF HERRERA'S OFFICE AND HE JUST SAID THAT HE HEARD I WAS NOT PROMOTING.
AND DID YOU EVER GET CLEARED OFF OF THE LIGHT DUTY RESTRICTION? NO.
BUT YOU GOT PROMOTED, CORRECT? YES.
DO YOU KNOW HOW THAT OCCURRED? MY UNDERSTANDING WAS I CONTACTED THE DPA'S OFFICE ALONG WITH OTHER LIGHT DUTY PERSONNEL, AND, UH, I SPOKE WITH, I BELIEVE BOB GORSKI.
AND, UM, NEXT THING I KNEW, HE SAID, YOU'RE GETTING PROMOTED.
JUST TO CLARIFY, UH, UH, YOU HAD TAKEN THE SERGEANT'S, UH, TEST, CORRECT? YES.
AND YOU WERE PLACED ON A RANGE LIST, UH, FOR THE ORDER OF PROMOTION, CORRECT? YES.
AND WHEN YOUR TURN TO PROMOTE ON THAT LIST CAME UP, YOU ULTIMATELY WERE PROMOTED, CORRECT? ULTIMATELY I WAS PROMOTED, YES.
WAS ANYBODY RANKED LOWER THAN YOU ON THAT LIST PROMOTED AHEAD OF YOU? NO.
ONCE YOU PROMOTED TO SERGEANT, DID THE DEPARTMENT
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CONTINUE TO ACCOMMODATE YOU FOR YOUR, UH, LIMITED DUTY? YES.MR. NYER, ANYTHING FURTHER? NOTHING FURTHER.
COULD SHE BE RELEASED? YES, I DO.
MS. HARRIS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TESTIFYING TODAY.
AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE.
CAN YOU ALL HERE, CAN YOU ALL SEE US IN THAT ARE ONLINE? PIERRE? I I DON'T SEE THE, UH, PANEL MS. STANLEY.
WE'RE JUST PLAYING TEAMS GAMES, SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET ALL, EVERYBODY ONLINE.
MAKE SURE WE CAN HEAR EVERYONE.
WANT ME TO START AGAIN? I, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE YEAH, I WAS JUST, SORRY.
CAN YOU ALL SEE THIS NOW? YES.
SIMON STATE YOUR DATE FOR THE RECORD, SIR.
DO AND, UH, HAVE YOU LISTED, UH, AS A WITNESS LIST AS A RETIRED DALLAS POLICE OFFICER? THAT IS CORRECT.
UM, CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR TENURE, YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH TPD? UH, I JOINED THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AFTER I RETIRED FROM MARINE CORPS IN 2001.
I RETIRED AFTER 24 YEARS, 24 AND A HALF YEARS OF SERVICE WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT AS A MAJOR.
UH, MOST OF MY TIME WAS SPENT IN PATROL, UH, PERSONNEL AND, UH, ASSISTANT TO THE CHIEF OF POLICE PATROL OPERATIONS.
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THAT'S KIND OF LIKE A, A MALE SNITCH.AND WHEN YOU LEFT THE, WHEN YOU RETIRED, YOU WERE AT THE RANK OF MAJOR, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
WHEN, WHEN DID YOU RETIRE? SEVEN 30TH, 2025.
YOU RETIRED, UM, CHIEF OF POLICE WITH DAVID COWELL? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND YOU REMEMBER HIS COMMAND STAFF, IS THAT YES.
AND, UM, I, I NOTICED THAT YOU MENTIONED YOU WORKED IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT DIVISIONS WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT.
ONE OF WAS FIRST BE TO ASK YOU ABOUT, HE WAS TO STRING REPORTS.
STATE REPORT IS, UH, ACTUALLY PULLED FROM THE IWM SOFTWARE.
WHAT IS IM UNIT? UH, INTER FORCE WORKFORCE MANAGEMENT.
INTEGRATED WORKFORCE MANAGEMENT IS WHAT THE DEPART USES FOR THEIR STRENGTH AND THE STRENGTH REPORT.
THAT WOULD INCLUDE EVERY OFFICER IN THE DEPARTMENT, EVERY OFFICER IN EVERY, UH, CIVILIAN WORKING FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THERE'S, UH, I HAVE THE STRENGTH REPORT FOR OCTOBER, 2025.
IS IT TAB NUMBER SIX YOU FIND TURNING TO THE PAGE AT THE MARK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE THAT STARTS ON PAGE 27 6? YES.
AND SORRY, WHAT'S THE BASE I MATCH? I DON'T HAVE A CHECK.
WHAT'S THE BASE YOU GOT? NICE.
YOU'RE SEARCHING IT ON YOUR, UM,
YOU'RE GONNA SEARCH IT BY THE PAGE NUMBER ON YOUR PDF.
WHAT THAT DID NOT LOOK AT, THIS IS A PRINT REPORT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
AND YOU COULD TURN BACK THROUGH THESE PAGES AND GO THROUGH PAGE ONE.
AND IT SAYS ORG CORD CODE 2193.
BUT IT WHAT IS AN ORG CODE? ORGANIZATION CODE.
SO EVERY UH, UNIT, UH, THAT HAS A COMMANDER HAS A CODE.
SOUTHEAST DIVISION WILL HAVE A CODE.
SOUTHWEST DIVISION PERSONNEL DIVISION WILL HAVE A CODE.
AND THEN SOME OF THE MORE SMALLER UNITS LIKE UH, INTERNAL DIVISION, INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION, UH, PUBLIC INTEGRITY UNIT THAT JUST COMMANDED BY LIEUTENANT WILL HAVE A CODE.
SO EVERY, EVERY DIVISION AND CERTAIN SMALLER UNITS WILL HAVE, UM, ORGANIZATION CODE.
SO YOU SEE HERE ON BOARD CODE NINE THREE, YOU SEE THE NEGATIVE THERE ON THAT CALL THAT SAYS BOULDER AND UNDER YES.
AND YOU SEE AUTHORIZED, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO WHAT IS, SO WE SEE, LET'S START WITH THE FIRST HERE.
DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE AUTHORIZED ONE.
AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SO, WELL, LET ME BACKTRACK.
SO ORG CODE 2193 IS WHAT THEY USED FOR FUTURE EXPANSION.
THOSE POSITIONS ARE PART OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THEY'RE THERE, THEY'RE, THEY'VE BEEN AUTHORIZED.
NOW, IF THAT 2193 DOESN'T GO, IT, IT'S NOT, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT'S, UH, SOUTHEAST DIVISION.
YOU CAN'T SAY THAT'S SOUTHWEST DIVISION.
THAT IS JUST FOR FUTURE EXPANSION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
SO THOSE POSITIONS ARE, ARE AUTHORIZED, BUT IT'S USED FOR FUTURE EXPANSION.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE AUTHORIZED, SO THEY'RE AUTHORIZED A, ANOTHER DEPUTY CHIEF, I
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DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THEY HAVE.THEY'RE AUTHORIZED 494 BECAUSE THEY, THEY ACTUALLY WANNA INCREASE THE, THE STAFFING HUB OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
SO ALL THESE POSITIONS HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN THE SYSTEM.
THEY'RE CREATED, AND THIS IS TO, UH, FUTURE EXPANSION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND SO WE SEE THERE'S ONE FOR DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE.
THERE'S A 400 POLICE OFFICER, CORRECT? SEVEN SERGEANT.
WE SEE THE POLICE OFFICER TRAINING, TRAINING ONE AND TRAINING WITH RE AND WE SEE POLICE MAJOR IS TWO VACANCIES.
SO THE POSITION IS GONNA BE SIX VACANCIES AVAILABLE AS LIEUTENANT FOR THE LIEUTENANT POSITION? YES.
AND THEN THE MAJOR POSITION, UH, EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT WOULD WORK IN RELATION TO LIEUTENANT POSITIONS.
IF THEY PROMOTE A MAJOR, I WENT UP TO MAJOR, GENERALLY WHAT'S THE RANK OF THE PERSON BEFORE THEY PROMOTE THE MAJOR? SO IN THIS SITUATION, THE LIEUTENANT'S PROMOTED TO MAJOR.
SO IF THE LIEUTENANT, OUR LIEUTENANT IS PROMOTED TO MAJOR, THEN THAT CREATES A LIEUTENANT BASE.
SO THEY CAN PROMOTE A SERGEANT TO LIEUTENANT RIPPLE EFFECT.
IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE TWO MAJOR VACANCIES, YOU, SO, YEAH.
WELL THE VACANCIES OCCUR AFTER YOU DO, IF YOU PROMOTE TWO LIEUTENANTS TO MAN AND YOU HAVE TO CREATE VACANCIES.
AND WITH THE SAME THING WHERE DEPUTY CHIEF WOULD, THAT WOULD A DEPUTY CHIEF PROMOTION.
AND WE SEE THERE'S ONE ANCY FOR DEPUTY CHIEF.
SO IF YOU PROMOTE A MAJOR TO DEPUTY CHIEF THAT CREATES A VACANCY FOR MAJOR, THEN YOU CAN PROMOTE A LIEUTENANT TO MAJOR THAT CREATES A VACANCY FOR LIEUTENANT, THEN YOU CAN PROMOTE A SERGEANT TO LIEUTENANT.
SO THE RANK STRUCTURE WHERE UNDER, SO EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS DEPUTY SERGEANT, ABOVE THE SERGEANT, IT'S A LIEUTENANT PUBLIC LIEUTENANTS THE MAJOR DIRECTLY ABOVE THE MAJORS AND DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE.
SO WE SEE SIX POSITIONS AVAILABLE FOR POLICE LIEUTENANT AND ALSO TWO REGULAR AND ONE DEPUTY CHIEF.
THAT COULD POTENTIALLY MEAN YOU HAVE NOT SIX LIEUTENANT POSITIONS, BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE NINE POSITIONS.
NOW 8 1 18 THERE MARKED AS A BOTTLE.
AND THEN WE'RE STILL IN THIS OCTOBER STRIKE.
SO THERE IN FOUR CODE 29 BEFORE WE SEE POLICE LIEUTENANT THE
NOW THAT IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS FOUR CODE 2119? THESE ARE EMPTY BOARD CODES.
THEY DON'T REALLY BELONG TO ANYTHING.
THEY'RE JUST PUTTING NUMBERS IN THEIR OPPOSITIONS THERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DID IT THAT WAY.
BUT IF YOU LOOK FOR 21 93, 21 94, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S NO NEED TO IT FOR AN ACTUAL, FOR DIVISION.
YOU SEE BENEATH THERE, THEY HAVE THREE SPOTS.
A ACTUAL, UH, SEE SAYS PM NUMBERS.
WHAT'S A PM NUMBER? UH, I'M TALKING ABOUT PAGE ONE EIGHT.
YES, I, UM, I'M, I'M NOT, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT STANDS FOR, BUT EVERY POSITION, LIKE I HAD, UH, A UNIQUE DESIGNATED NUMBER FOR MY POSITION.
AND THAT'S WHAT A PM NUMBER UNDER.
DON'T REMEMBER, DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PM ACTION STANDS FOR, BUT IT'S A UNIQUE DESIGNATED POSITION.
SO EVERY OFFICER HAS A P NUMBER, EVERY CIVILIAN ENFORCEMENT P NUMBER.
SO THESE ARE THE, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN HERE? WHEN WE SEE THREE ACTUAL PM NUMBERS WITH POLICE LIEUTENANT AND THEN CROSS THERE, IT SAYS VACANT.
THOSE, THOSE POSITIONS THAT ARE CREATED HAVE BEEN CREATED AND THEY'RE IN THE SYSTEM.
SO THESE ARE, THESE BE THREE ADDITIONAL LIEUTENANT POSITIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE AND THAT ARE IN, IN ADDITION TO THE PREVIOUS OR YES.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN THE SYSTEM.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE PART OF THE STRENGTH REPORT.
[00:40:02]
SO NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT, SO BOTH OF THESE BEING PART OF THE OCTOBER STRENGTH REPORT.WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE PAGES TOGETHER, PAGE ONE OF SIX AND ONE 19, WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON, DO THEY HAVE VACANCIES AT THE, AT THE POSITION FOR LIEUTENANTS? YES.
THEY HAVE HAVE, AND THEY'VE GOT SO MANY VACANCIES.
WILL YOU SAY THEY, THEY SHOW THAT THEY HAVE THE STRENGTH OF REPORT? WELL, AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL SAY THIS, THE VACANCIES, IT SHOWS THAT THEY'RE, WELL DON'T SAY VACANCIES.
SO AS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GROWS AND EXPANDS, THEY HAVE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO TO CITY HALL AND SAY, HEY, WE NEED TO FILL THIS POSITION.
UH, SO THEY COULD HAVE PROMOTED A DEPUTY CHIEF AND MAJORS ANYTIME THEY WANTED.
'CAUSE THE POSITIONS WERE THERE.
MY UNDERSTANDING, THIS NEXT GO ROUND OF PROMOTIONS ARE GONNA PROMOTE MORE MAJORS THAN DEPUTY CHIEFS.
AND YOU, AND IN OCTOBER, 2025, STILL YOUR CUSTOMER.
AND IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT RE SO WANNA EXPLAIN, SO IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW, RICKY SCOTT WAS A SERGEANT WAS ON THE LIST TO PROMOTE TO TIM.
AND HE WAS THIS EXPIRED OCTOBER 12TH.
UM, CAN YOU FORM AN OPINION BEING, BEING THERE AT THE TIME, SEEING THE STRENGTH REPORTS OR THE, WHEN THE LIST EXPIRED ON OCTOBER 12TH WHERE THERE WAS THE DEPART, DID THE DEPARTMENT HAVE THIS ISSUE TO PROMOTE HIM INTO AS LIEUTENANT? AS I REMEMBER, ONCE I WAS TOLD HE WAS NOT GONNA GET PROMOTED, I LOOKED UP THE STRENGTH REPORT AND I FOUND THAT IN THE TRAFFIC DIVISION, THERE WAS A LIEUTENANT POSITION THAT HAD GONE
SO YOU WERE, WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING, WHAT I
YOU SPECIFICALLY LOOKED TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANOTHER POSITION THAT RICKY SCOTT GOT REMOTE TO YES.
AND YOU DID SEE, YOU SAW AT LEAST ONE YES.
DID YOU SEE ANY OTHERS? I SAW ANOTHER ONE, BUT I'M NOT, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT WAS THE UNIT THAT WAS IN, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
BUT I REMEMBER THE TRAFFIC UNIT BECAUSE I, I KNEW THE TRAFFIC ALARM ONE LIEUTENANT, THEY RAIDED TWO.
DID YOU, UM, SO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT RICKY SCOTT WAS NOT PROMOTED IN MINOR? THAT IS CORRECT.
DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION WHY HE WASN'T PROMOTED? WELL, SO IF I HAVE TO GO BACK, UH, SO IN, IN, IN MY TIME, IN THE SHORT TIME IN THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, SOME CHIEFS DON'T PROMOTE LIKE PERSON THAT'S NEXT IN LINE.
AND I'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN WITH, WITH, UH, EVER SINCE CHIEF BROWN, THEY DON'T LIKE SOMEONE, THEY DON'T WANNA PROMOTE SOMEONE.
SO THEY JUST, I'M NOT PROMOTING ANYBODY.
AND THAT'S THE PREROGATIVE OF THE CHIEF.
AND, AND CHIEF BROWN WAS FAMOUS FOR THAT 'CAUSE HE, HE DID THAT A COUPLE TIMES.
HE DIDN'T WANNA PROMOTE PEOPLE.
SO HE, HE LET THE LIST EXPIRE.
UH, BUT IN THE CASE OF, OF SERGEANT SCOTT, I HAD TWO OTHER SERGEANTS AT THE TIME.
SENIOR CORPORAL WAS WORKING FOR ME, TWO FEMALES THAT WERE, UM, ON LIGHT DUTY.
I CAN'T, I BELIEVE ONE WAS ON PREMIER LIGHT DUTY.
I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE OTHER ONE.
THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO BE PROMOTED TO SAR.
THEY FILLED OUT ALL OF THEIR, THEIR FORMS AND PACKAGES AND PAPERWORK TO BE PROMOTED TO SERGEANT.
THEN AT THE LAST MINUTE, THEY WERE TOLD, I'M GONNA GET PROMOTED.
AND THEY WERE VERY UPSET ABOUT IT TO SEE CORPORAL.
AND UH, SO I TALKED TO THEM AND THEY, THEY, I WAS TOLD, THEY TOLD ME THIS, THAT CUOMO DIDN'T LIKE, LIKE LUIS, HE WASN'T GONNA PROMOTE, PEOPLE LIKED LUIS, BUT IF THEY GOT OFF LIGHT DUTY WENT BACK ON FULL DUTY, UH, HE WOULD PROMOTE THEM AND HE WOULD, UH, BACKDATE.
AND THAT FOR ME WAS LIKE, THEY WAIT A MINUTE, BACKDATE THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS LIKE TO DO THAT.
THE CITY IS GOING BACK BACKDATE ANYTHING OR GIVE BACK DATE.
UH, SO THAT REALLY KIND OF, HOW DO I SAY THAT? I REMEMBER THAT SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I NEVER HEARD OF THAT BEFORE.
UH, SO I WENT TO TALK TO PATRICE AL SOME PERSONNEL, AND SHE PRETTY MUCH CONFIRMED THAT IF THEY GOT OFF LIGHT DUTY, THEY WOULD GET PROMOTED AND WOULD BE BACK DATED.
SO THE SENIOR CORPORALS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT,
[00:45:01]
UH, WAS ONE OF THEM JESSICA ELL? YES.AND WAS THE OTHER ONE MARIA TORRES? YES.
DID YOU HEAR FROM ANY OTHER, UH, PEOPLE THAT WERE TOLD THEY WOULDN'T BE PROMOTED BECAUSE OF THEIR LIGHT DUTY RESTRICTIONS? NO.
THE ONLY ONLY REASON I KNEW ABOUT THOSE THREE, YOU KNOW, AND, AND SERGEANT SCOTT WAS BECAUSE THEY ALL, THEY ALL WORKED FOR ME AT THE TIME.
SO HAVING ALL THAT INFORMATION AND UM, I THINK I ASKED YOU, DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION OF WHY, UH, RICKY SCOTT THEY QUOTE, DIED ON THE LIST AND DID NOT PROMOTE? UH, I THINK IT WAS DONE PURPOSEFUL.
AND THE REASON I BELIEVE IS BECAUSE, UH, THE DEPARTMENT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS HAD OFFICERS ABUSING LIGHT DUTY.
EITHER, UH, PERMIT LIGHT DUTY, UH, OCCUPATIONAL LIGHT DUTY OR NON APPLICATION LIGHT DUTY.
AND THERE THERE'S A, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVE THAT ACTUALLY GOVERNS HOW NON OCCUPATIONAL LIGHT DUTY.
BUT IT WAS, IT WAS HARDLY ENFORCE BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
SO YOU WOULD HAVE OFFICERS THAT WOULD GO OUT THERE AND CLAIM THEY GOT HURT ON A FESTIVAL GAME OR WHATEVER, AND THEY'LL BE TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS ON, ON LIGHT DUTY WHEN THE ACTUAL, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVE ONLY STATED, I BELIEVE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, 16 WEEKS.
AND, UH, SO IT WAS ABUSED, BUT THE DEPARTMENT NEVER CRACKED DOWN ON IT UNTIL, UH, CUOMO CAME ON BOARD.
AND SO WHEN CUOMO STARTED, UH, AS TENURE ITS CHIEF, UH, ARE YOU, WERE YOU AWARE OF ANY STEPS HE TOOK, UH, IN REGARDS TO THE LIGHT DUTY POSITIONS, UM, BEING MENTIONED THAT JUST NOW TO MENTION NO ONE CRACKDOWN OR CRACKDOWN UNTIL CO CORRECTED, OTHER THAN THE INCIDENT WITH, UH, TORRES AND
IIII WOULD HAVE TO SAY NO, BUT I'M NOT SURE TO WELL, WERE YOU AWARE AT ANY TIME THAT, THAT THE LIGHT DUTY POSITIONS WERE BEING QUESTIONED BY THE DEPARTMENT? IN OTHER WORDS, THE VALIDITY OF IT? 'CAUSE YOU MENTIONED, UH, THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD ABUSE THEIR, THE POSITION.
UH, WAS THERE ANY CHECKS BEING DONE THAT YOU WERE AWARE OF FROM EXPOSITION? UH, CHECKS AS IN, UH, WELL, I, I KNOW THEY STARTED GOING THROUGH A LOT AND THEN THIS IS ALL, HOW DO I SAY THIS? UH, UH, ANECDOTAL, THEY WOULD START IMPLEMENTING THE ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTOR.
THEY STARTED SENDING SOME SWORN, NON-SWORN PEOPLE HOME AND SAY, HEY, UH, YOUR SIX WEEK HAS EXPIRED.
YOU GO HOME WITHOUT PAY UNTIL YOU COME BACK.
I HAD A, UH, A PROFESSIONAL STAFF, MR.
SO I IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE I THINK SO, YES.
YEAH, SO, SO I, THERE WAS, I, UH, ANECDOTALLY THERE WAS AN OFFICER THAT HAPPENED THE SAME.
SO A LOT OF OFFICERS STARTED COMING OFF NON-OCCUPATIONAL LIGHT DUTY.
THERE, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OCCUPATIONAL, NON-OCCUPATIONAL HERE.
SO NON-OCCUPATIONAL, IF I GO OUT AND I RIDE A MOTORCYCLE AND I GET HURT, UH, AND I CAN'T COME TO WORK, I GET 16 WEEKS.
AND THEN OCCUPATIONAL, IF IT HAPPENS ON DUTY, I GO TO A CALL AND I GET SHOT AND I'M HAVING TROUBLE, YOU KNOW, MOBILITY PROBLEMS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO THERE'S TWO TYPES OF, OF, UH, LIGHT DUTY.
THE OCCUPATIONAL LIGHT DUTY IS MORE, UH, BEING THEN NOT NON-OCCUPATIONAL.
THEY JUST GIVE YOU 16 WEEKS ACCORDING TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVE.
A AFTER 16 WEEKS, YOU GET SENT HOME WITHOUT PAYMENT, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN UNTIL YOU COME BACK TO FULL DUTY.
AND SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, IF I'M CORRECT, YOU'RE SAYING THAT AT SOME POINT IN 2025, IS THAT RIGHT? THAT SOME O OFFICERS THAT WERE ON NON-OCCUPATIONAL LIGHT DUTY POSITION WERE BEING SENT HOME? IS THAT RIGHT? YES.
I I KNOW AT LEAST ANECDOTAL I KNOW OF, OF ONE.
THAT WOULD'VE BEEN DURING COS JR.
UM, YOU MENTIONED WE WERE LOOKING AT THE STRENGTH OF COURT AND YOU MENTIONED THAT THESE ARE NOT VACANCIES, BUT THESE ARE DISPOSITIONS, CORRECT?
[00:50:01]
YES.SO IS NOT AS IF THERE WAS A VACANT, JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON HERE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A VACANT POSITION THAT NEEDS TO BE FILLED, CORRECT? RIGHT.
IT'S NOT THE I THERE, THESE ARE AUTHORIZED POSITIONS.
AND YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU GAVE THE EXAMPLE OF SAY, TWO MAJORS RETIRE OR, OR PROMOTE, UH, THAT, THAT WOULD CAUSE TWO LIEUTENANTS TO PROMOTE THE MAJOR, WHICH WOULD CREATE TWO VACANCIES FOR THE TIMES.
WHAT IF TWO MAJORS DON'T RETIRE FROM
I SUBMIT MY RETIREMENT PAPERWORK AND I, AND, AND SPECIFICALLY I SAID, HEY, SO YOU CAN PROMOTE PEOPLE OFF THE LIST OF LIEUTENANTS.
WELL, SOMEONE WAS PROMOTED, I THINK THE PERSON BEFORE, UH, SERGEANT SCOTT, BUT I WAS STILL ON ACTIVE DUTY, SO THEY PROMOTED THE PERSON BEFORE I EVEN RETIRED.
SO WE LOOKED AT THESE 642 CREATIVE POSITIONS THAT, UH, FOR, FOR POTENTIAL, YOU SAID FOR FUTURE EXPANSION, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO THOSE POSITIONS AREN'T NECESSARILY AVAILABLE FOR SOMEBODY TO TAKE RIGHT AWAY.
UM, SO, UH, WHAT DOES LIEUTENANT DO? WHAT IS THE, THE, OKAY.
THE, THE LIEUTENANT IS A MIDDLE MANAGEMENT.
HE'S USUALLY, UH, DO SHE OVERSEE A UNIT AND SEVERAL UNITS CAN CONTACT.
AND IF THERE WAS NO UNIT AVAILABLE, THAT MEANS LIEUTENANT, WOULD SOMEBODY BE PROMOTED? NO.
SO LOOKING AT THIS STRENGTH REPORT FOR THESE POSITIONS THAT ARE AGREED FOR FUTURE EXPANSION, THIS DOESN'T SHOW THAT THERE WAS AN EMPTY VACANCY FOR A UNIT THAT NEEDED A LIEUTENANT, CORRECT? AT THE TIME? WELL, UH, NOT FOR THOSE PETITION, BUT THERE WAS FOR SURE THAT I COULD, AT THE TIME THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE THAT I KNOW FOR SURE TWO, THAT WAS FAKE THAT TIME.
AND THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE REPORTED IN THIS REPORT.
AND IF YOU COULD FIND THE, THE TRAFFIC DIVISION, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE.
BECAUSE I REMEMBER LOOKING AT IT WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT THEY WERE NOT AT THE MOST SERGEANT SCOTT, JUST TO CLARIFY, THERE'S NO, IF THERE'S NO ACTUAL VACANCY IN A UNIT, THEN THEY WOULD NOT GO BACK TO THE PROMOTIONAL LIST AND PROMOTE.
RIGHT? USUALLY, BUT YOU, YOU GOTTA REMEMBER THE, THE VACANCIES OR THE OPEN SPOTS ARE CREATED BY THE BOARD TRUCK.
SO WHENEVER THE SIX FLOOR DECIDES THEY, THEY CAN CREATE AN ORG CHART AND EXPAND AND CREATE OTHER UNITS.
SO THE ORG CHART DETERMINES WHERE THE VACANCIES ARE, AND I KNOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SUPPOSEDLY IN SEPTEMBER ARE GONNA PROMOTE EXTRA MAJORS AT THIS TIME BEFORE EXTRA DEPUTY SHEETS THAT THEY HAVE BEFORE.
AND, UH, SO THEY'RE GONNA ADJUST THE ORG CHART AND CREATE THE VACANCIES.
LET'S SAY THE POSITION OF SERGEANT, LIKE IF LOOKING AT THE, UH, ONE OF THESE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLIP TO, IT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE, BUT I'M LOOKING AT ONE OF THESE UNITS THAT HAS, UH, 2, 2, 2 SERGEANT DESIGNATED FOR TO WORK IN THAT MM-HMM
YOU'RE SAYING THE ORG CHART CAN BE CHANGED TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE WANT TO ADD ANOTHER SAR AND THAT WILL BE REFLECTED IN THIS AS WELL.
SO IF THERE'S NO AVAILABILITY FOR THESE ACTUAL UNITS, AND I KNOW YOU SAID THAT 2 1 9 3, 2 1 9 4 OR SO, MD OR CODES, I THINK THAT YES.
AND, AND THEY JUST PUT ALL THESE POSITIONS IN THERE.
AND SO FOR THE OTHER THAN THOSE TWO, THE UNITS HERE, IF THERE WAS VACANCIES AVAILABLE, I SENT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO COME IN AND FILL OUT THAT BEER LETTER.
AND YOU MENTIONED, UH, THE TWO, THE TWO SERGEANTS WITH REGARDS TO LIGHT DUTY.
ARE YOU AWARE THAT THEY WERE PROMOTED? YES.
AND YOU'RE AWARE THAT THEY WERE STILL ACCOMMODATED WITH LIGHT DUTY? YES.
HOWEVER, THE OFFICER PLEASE JUST, OH, OKAY.
UH, NO, NO, I, THE BOARD WILL WANNA KNOW.
SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS, SO THEY, UH, THEY CONTACTED THE ASSOCIATION LAWYER, STATE ASSOCIATION LAWYER, CALLED SOMEONE IN YOUR OFFICE AND SAID, HEY, YOU'RE VIOLATING ABOUT THE NAME OF THAT FEDERAL LAW, UH, IN REGARDS TO, UH, DISABILITY.
IF I COULD CATCH YOU OFF HERE.
WERE YOU A PART OF THOSE CALLS? NO, I WAS NOT.
WITH REGARDS TO, UM, THE PROMOTIONAL LISTS THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, UM, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAS THE DEPARTMENT, OR EXCUSE ME, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL SPECIFY.
UH, CHIEF CALLED ON THAT WAS OCTOBER 20, UH, OCTOBER, 2025.
[00:55:01]
DID HE MAKE PROMOTIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT, THAT SERVICE LIST? YES.ARE YOU AWARE OF HIM SKIPPING OVER ANYBODY BECAUSE OF BLOOD DUTY OR DISABILITY THAT I'LL PASS.
MR. STEIN? THANKS, MS. AMEZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.
WE APPRECIATE IT TODAY, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE CITY OF DALLAS ALL FOR ALL THOSE YEARS.
HOPE YOU'RE ENJOYING RETIREMENT.
YES,
UH, AM I, YOU'RE ACCUSED? YEAH, I'M DONE.
YOU MIGHT, YOU MIGHT BE THE ONLY PERSON WHO'S ABLE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
UM, SO YOU USED TWO WORDS AND I JUST WANNA KNOW IF THEY'RE THE SAME THING, THEY'RE USED IN THE SAME WAY OR IF THEY HAVE DIFFERENT IMPLICATIONS.
SO YOU SHOULD USE THREE TERMS. ONE, THE POSITION IS OPEN, RIGHT? SOMEONE, LET ME START FROM THE BEGINNING.
IF SOMEONE RETIRES OR GETS PROMOTED, YOU USED THREE DIFFERENT WORDS.
ONE WAS VACANCIES, ONE WAS CREATED AND ONE WAS AUTHORIZED.
AND SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHICH OF THESE APPLY HERE, BECAUSE IF IT'S, IF IT'S AUTHORIZED, THEN IT'S A POSITION THAT'S COVERED, IT'S IN THE BUDGET OR I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT GETS LISTED, BUT IT GETS, IT'S FORMAL.
IF IT GETS CREATED, THEN YOU'RE EXPANDING THE POOL OF OPPORTUNITY TO BRING SOMEONE IN THERE, RIGHT? SO THAT'S MORE PERSON SPECIFIC.
AND THE THIRD ONE IS VACANCIES.
CAN THOSE SIT IDLE? DOES IT MEAN ANYTHING? OR DO THEY HAVE TO BE FILLED BY THE AUTHORIZED OPEN? UH, SO LEMME SEE HOW TO EXPLAIN THAT.
SO IF WE GO, UH, SO THE, THE POSITIONS ARE, ARE BUDGETED FOR AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE PUT INTO THE, UH, INTO THE ORG CHART HAS, WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT? IS THAT A CREATED POSITION OR IS THAT AN AUTHORIZED POSITION? I WOULD CALL IT AN AUTHORIZED POSITION BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALREADY, THEY'RE ALREADY THE, THE MONEY'S ALLOCATED FOR THOSE POSITIONS.
THE, THE CHIEF OF BELIEF DECIDES WHICH POSITIONS HE WANTS TO FILL OR NOT FILL.
UH, SO, SO IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO BE FILLED.
HE, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO FILL A POSITION IF HE DOESN'T WANT FILL POSITION.
SO THAT POSITION GOES AWAY? NO, IT'S STILL THERE.
SO IT'S PERSON SPECIFIC, WHETHER OR NOT HE WANTS TO PROMOTE SOMEONE.
IF, IF I GO BACK, I, AND I CAN, CUOMO HADN HADN'T BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH BEFORE I RETIRED.
IF I GO BACK, I, I CAN GO BACK AND, AND, AND THERE WAS SOME, SOME MEANNESS.
YOU KNOW, BROWN IS VERY, IF HE DIDN'T LIKE SOMEONE AND YOU WOULD ACTUALLY BE PROMOTED, HE JUST KILLED THE LIST.
HE JUST DIDN'T WANNA PROMOTE YOU.
AND, UH, SO, UH, AGAIN, SO THAT POSITION WAS THERE, HE JUST DECIDED HE DIDN'T FILL THEM WHATEVER REASON.
DOES THAT ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS? SORT OF, YEAH.
I MEAN, CAN I, I, I'M GETTING MIXED UP ON SEMANTICS.
I JUST WANNA KNOW MR. MR. BER, IF I COULD FOLLOW UP JUST RECENT TESTIMONY.
I TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, I THINK I, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, AND THIS WAS CONFUSING AS WELL.
NO, SORRY, WE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE ALL THIS OUT.
WE LOOKED AT THOSE, YOU SAID THOSE EMPTY, UH, ORG CODES, THE TWO
YOU'RE SAYING THAT ALL THOSE POSITIONS ARE ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET? THEY SHOULD BE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GONNA USE TO EXPAND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
BUT THAT'S BASED ON IF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS EXPANDED AND THE ORG CHART HAS EXPANDED, NOT THAT THERE ARE EXISTING POSITIONS THAT THOSE NEED TO BE FILLED.
COULD THAT CHANGE THE NUMBER OF VACANCIES? WHAT, COULD YOU REPHRASE THAT PLEASE? UM, IF YOU'RE, LET'S SAY INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE, THE POLICE FORCE, DOES THAT CREATE OPEN LIEUTENANT PROMOTION OPPORTUNITIES? YES.
DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY WANT TO EXPAND.
MR. SNYDER, MR. MARTIN ASKED A QUESTION.
DID YOU EVER HAVE A QUESTION OPPORTUNITY? I THINK SO, YES.
I JUST, WHERE WHERE ARE YOU? I'M GOOD.
SO MAJOR, UH, IT'S KIND OF WONKY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VACANCY VERSUS CREATING VERSUS BUDGETED VERSUS, UH, AUTHORIZED.
UM, AND I UNDERSTAND LIKE, BUT YOU ARE TESTIFYING THAT BEFORE THE LIST EXPIRED TO PROMOTE AND RICKY SCOTT WAS THE NEXT ONE TO PROMOTE, YOU SPECIFICALLY LOOKED TO SEE IF THERE WAS AN ACTUAL POSITION THERE THAT WAS, I DON'T KNOW THE WORD VACANT OPEN IN THE DEPARTMENT.
AND YOU FOUND AN UNAUTHORIZED POSITION THAT WAS OPEN OR VACANT.
AND YOU FOUND AT LEAST ONE YES.
THAT WAS THERE TO BE PROMOTED INTO, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND THAT THE ONLY REASON, SO THERE WOULD BE NOTHING, NO
[01:00:01]
REASON WHY RICKY SCOTT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PROMOTED IN THAT POSITION.IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
HOPEFULLY THAT WE'RE ABLE TO CLARIFY HELP OUT.
UM, TELL THE, UH, THE BOARD MEMBERS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOUR TENURE WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
UH, I SPENT A TOTAL OF ABOUT 40 YEARS, 36 AND A HALF AS A SWORN OFFICER WHERE I ROSE TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT.
AND I RETIRED FROM ACTIVE DUTY AND THEN I BECAME A RESERVE.
AND I RETIRED FROM THE RESERVES IN 2021.
UH, DURING MY CAREER, I WAS A PRESIDENT OF AN EMPLOYEE ASSOCIATION WHERE I REPRESENTED OFFICERS.
I ADVISED THEM, I PREPARED GRIEVANCES FOR THEM.
I APPEARED IN FRONT OF VARIOUS BOARDS.
UM, I REPRESENTED OFFICERS IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD BEFORE ALL THE CHIEFS AND, UH, AT LEAST THREE CIVIL SERVICE DIRECTORS WHO TRYING TO ADDRESS EMPLOYEE PROBLEMS. AND SINCE MY RETIREMENT, I'M STILL CONTACTED AND CONSULTED WITH ON A CONSTANT BASIS BY OFFICERS IN THE DEPARTMENT, UH, TO ADVISE OR GIVE THEM INPUT ON CERTAIN ISSUES THAT MAY HAVE.
AND DURING YOUR, UH, CONTACT THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT FIRST ABOUT THE DIVISIONS OR, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITIES YOU HAVE? UM, I WORKED AS A PATROL OFFICER.
I WORKED AS A PATROL SUPERVISOR.
I WAS THE OPERATIONS COMMAND IN CHARGE OF PERSONNEL.
UM, MY LAST NINE TO 10 YEARS, I WAS A WATCH COMMANDER WHERE I SERVED AS THE HEAD OF THE EMPLOYMENT SECTION FOR THE PERSONNEL DIVISION.
I WAS IN CHARGE OF RECRUITING
IN THAT JOB, I SERVED AS INTERIM, UH, DEPUTY CHIEF OFF AND ON WHEN, UH, THE ACTION CHIEF FOR THE DIVISION WAS OUT.
UH, I ALSO SPENT TIME AS THE COMMANDER OF THE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT UNIT AT THE
[01:05:01]
SOUTHEAST DIVISION, WHICH IN ENCOMPASSES PROBABLY 64, 65 SQUARE MILES AND OVER 200,000 CITIZENS, PROBABLY 50 TO 60 COMMUNITY GROUPS, CHURCHES, SCHOOLS.SO SOME VERY EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE.
AND THEN SINCE YOUR RETIREMENT, UH, YOU STILL, YOU ARE, YOU STILL STAY ABREAST OF THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT THROUGH YOUR ACTIVITIES AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF DALLAS POLICE OFFICERS? YES, I AM RETIRED, BUT THE NATIONAL BLACK POLICE ASSOCIATION AS A CHAPTER IN THE DALLAS PD AND THE PRESIDENT AND I FOR, UH, TWO PEOPLE WHO WORK ON EMPLOYEE PROBLEMS, HE'LL COME CONSULT ME ON THINGS.
HE'LL CALL AND ASK ME, UH, MY MOST RECENT THING.
I PREPARED AND REPRESENT SOME OFFICERS ON THE GRIEVANCE ON LAST YEAR.
NOW THE BOOK IN FRONT OF YOU, UH, IF YOU WOULD TURN PLEASE, IT WOULD BE TAB NUMBER TWO IN THE PAGE AT THE BOTTOM.
THERE'S SOMETHING, YES, I AM NOT HERE.
SO YOU SEE THIS LIST THERE ON, IT SAYS IT'S A EXPIRATION DATE ON THIS OCTOBER THE 12TH, 2025.
AND IT'S A POLICE LIEUTENANT ELIGIBILITY, UH, LIST TO PROMOTE TO THE LIEUTENANT.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YES, I DO.
NOW THERE'S, THERE'S A LIST OF NAMES HERE.
AND THEN IF YOU LOOK DOWN AT 29TH, YOU SEE THERE IT'S, UH, RICKY SCOTT IS LISTED TO PROMOTE, UH, AND POSITION NUMBER 29TH.
LEADING ABOVE HIM LEAVE BASIN.
NOW, DAVID BASIN, WERE YOU AWARE THAT HE LEFT THE DO DEPARTMENT AT THE TIME HE WAS GOING TO VISIT? I WAS VERY SURE WHERE HE LEFT, BUT HE LEFT, HE, HE WAS NOT ELIGIBLE TO PROMOTE, UH, OFF OF THIS LIST DUE TO HIS RESIGNATION OR SEPARATION, RIGHT? YEAH, IT WAS ISSUE.
AND SO, UH, CECIL CHAMBERS, IF YOU, UH, WILL TURN TO THE NEXT TAB, UH, TAB, OKAY.
UM, THE PAGE NUMBER IS 18 HERE AT BOTTOM.
IT'S AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF PROMOTION.
AND YOU'LL SEE THERE, UH, CECIL CHAMBERS GOT PROMOTED.
THIS PROMOTION WAS EFFECTIVE OCTOBER THE EIGHTH IS WHAT IT SAYS.
SO IF WE WERE LOOKING BACK ON THE LIST THERE, WE WOULD SEE CECIL CHAMBERS JUST ABOVE BASIN, RIGHT.
AND THEN JACOB ESE ACTUALLY JUST ABOVE CECIL CHAMBERS? CORRECT.
SO HERE IN OCTOBER 3RD, THEY ANNOUNCED THE PROMOTIONS THAT WERE GONNA BE EFFECTIVE EIGHTH, UH, OF CHAMBERS AND
AND THIS RESULTED IN RICKY SCOTT BEING IN THE NUMBER ONE POSITION.
AS OF OCTOBER THE EIGHTH AND THE LIST IS STILL GOOD UNTIL THE 12TH, CORRECT? YES.
NOW, AT THAT TIME, UH, THAT THAT WAS OCCURRING, WERE YOU AWARE OF THE SITUATION? VERY.
SO HOW, HOW OBJECT TO, TO THE QUESTION, THE SITUATION.
WERE YOU AWARE OF RICKY SCOTT'S SITUATION AS BEING THE NEXT PERSON ON THE LIST? THE NUMBER ONE POSITION AND THE LIST IS DUE TO EXPIRING IN JUST A MATTER OF A FEW DAYS.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YES, I WAS AWARE OF IT.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN LIKE YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION AT THAT TIME, HOW YOU WERE INVOLVED AND WHAT, WHAT YOU UNDERSTOOD THE SITUATION TO BE? SO, LAST MAY, LAST APRIL OR MAY, I WAS CONTACTED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THAT ASSOCIATION THAT I WORKED WITH REGARDING, UM, CONCERNS THEY HAD ABOUT THE WAIVE THE LIEUTENANT'S TEST WAS ANNOUNCED.
I GOT INVOLVED, I PREPARED GRIEVANCE AND I CERTAINLY THE REPRESENTED MEMBERS OF THAT, UH, WHO, WHO WERE GRIEVING THE WAY THE PROMOTION PROCESS WAS ABOUT TO START.
AND CHILDREN RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT GRIEVANCE.
WRIGLEY CONTACTED ME AND ADVISED ME THAT HE HAD RECEIVED A NOTICE TO GO TO PERSONNEL, GO TO THE PROPERTY DEAN, QUARTER MASTER TO DO
[01:10:01]
ALL THOSE THINGS THAT YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE GETTING READY TO GET PROMOTED.YOUR INFORMATION IS SUBMITTED TO INTERNAL AFFAIRS, YOUR INFORMATION IS SUBMITTED TO PUBLIC INTEGRITY AND YOU ARE CLEARED FOR PROMOTION OR CONSIDERATION FOR PROMOTION BY THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
HE WAS GIVEN A DATE, UM, HE NOTIFIED ME OF THE DATE AND IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN AUGUST.
AND I REMEMBERED HIM SAYING IT WAS GOING TO BE A PROMOTION OF CEREMONY AT I BELIEVE SMUA LARGE CEREMONY.
AND THEY WERE GONNA GET PROMOTED.
UM, AUGUST CAME AROUND IN A FEW DAYS BEFORE THAT ANNOUNCED DATE.
UH, HE GOT INFORMATION THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO BE PROMOTED AT THAT POINT IN TIME.
WESTERN STARTED TO BE ASKED, THE PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION THAT I WORKED WITH STARTED TALKING AND WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS GONNA BE ANOTHER ROUND OF PROMOTIONS IN SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER.
AND PEOPLE ON THE LIST WERE LIEUTENANT WOULD BE PROMOTED AT THAT TIME, OR, UH, CONSIDERED FOR PROMOTION THAT THERE WERE NO VACANCIES.
I PROVIDED INFORMATION TO THAT ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT THAT WHEN THEY PROMOTED IN AUGUST, THAT THEIR BASIS, UH, THE WAY THE BUDGET IN THE CITY OF DALLAS IS PREPARED FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT EVERY YEAR WHEN THEY PREPARE THE BUDGET, THE MONEY GOES WHERE THEY POSITION.
IT DOESN'T GO WITH THE PERSON.
SO IF THERE ARE FIVE LIEUTENANTS IN HOMICIDE, THAT MONEY SITS AND IS THERE FOR THE FIVE POSITIONS.
WHEN THOSE LIEUTENANTS, IF THEY GET PROMOTED, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT MONEY IS THE ONE AVAILABLE.
IT MEANS THAT THAT MONEY STILL SITS THERE.
SO AT THAT TIME, I LOOKED AT THE IWM, UH, I TALKED TO PEOPLE INSIDE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT I KNOW.
UM, I GATHERED THE ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT AND I INFORMED HIM THAT EACH ONE OF THOSE LIEUTENANTS WHO WAS PROMOTED TO THE RANK OF MAJOR IN AUGUST, LEFT A VACANT POSITION AND LEFT MONEY ON THE TABLE SO THEY COULD ACTUALLY, THAT THEY WANTED TO BUILD IT.
OCTOBER CAME AROUND AND RICKY AND I WAS STILL CONVERSING AND HE INFORMED ME THAT IT WAS NOT BEING PROMOTED.
AND I ASKED HIM WHY HE HAD NO IDEA.
UH, WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING ALLEGED.
I SHOWED UP AT THE PROMOTION TO SEE WHO'S GOING TO GET PROMOTED, AND I SAW THEM STOP AT C CHAMBERS.
AND AFTER THAT WEEKEND, I STARTED TO TALK AND HE AND I HAVE DIALOGUE OFF REGARDING THIS PROCESS.
I'VE ADVISED HIM ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK HE SHOULD BE DOING IN MY EXPERIENCE IN SEEING ISSUES LIKE THIS REPORT.
UM, ON OCTOBER THE SEVENTH, WHEN THOSE PROMOTIONS WERE MADE, THE LIST WAS STILL ACTIVE THAT RICKY WAS THE CANDIDATE ON AND ON OCTOBER 1ST, THE NEW BUDGET STARTED.
AND ACCORDING TO THAT NEW BUDGET, ON OCTOBER 1ST, NEW POSITIONS OF THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT WERE CREATED.
SO AT THAT TIME, THERE WERE POSITIONS REMAINING FROM THOSE LIEUTENANTS WHO WERE PROMOTED IN AUGUST, AS WELL AS THE NEW POSITIONS THAT WERE PUT ON THE BOOKS ON OCTOBER 1ST.
UH, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, I WENT TO THE GENTLEMAN THAT I WORKED WITH, WHO'S THE PRESIDENT OF ASSOCIATION, ASKED HIM TO LOOK INTO IT.
HE TOLD ME HE RECEIVED INFORMATION THAT THOSE NEW POSITIONS WOULD BE, I DON'T KNOW, I'M NOT LAUGHING OUT SARCASM, I'M LAUGHING OUT OF THE EXPLANATION BEING SO FAR THOSE FUTURE GROWTH, ONE POSITION THAT'S ON THE BOOKS AND THERE'S MONEY THERE.
IF A PERSON THAT'S ON THE LIST, THEY CAN ONLY BE SKIPPED A CALLS AND THERE'S DISCIPLINE, UH, OVER PERFORMANCE, BAD BEHAVIOR, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND RICK HAD ALREADY UNDERWENT THE ENTIRE BACKGROUND CHECK IN THE JUNE AND JULY PROCESS IN HOPES OF BEING PROMOTED IN AUGUST.
SO I KNEW THAT THERE WAS NO PROBLEM WITH HIS BACKGROUND, HIS PERFORMANCE, UH, WE DISCUSSED HIM HAVING BEEN WRITTEN UP FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYEE, UH, OF THE MONTH, EMPLOYEE OF THE WEEK A COUPLE OF TIMES.
UH, WE TALKED ABOUT HIS PERFORMANCE.
HE HAD BEEN LEFT IN CHARGE, UM, IN AN INTERIM POSITION TO SERVE WHEN HIS IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR WAS OUT.
UH, MEANING THAT THEY ENTRUSTED HIM WITH ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT.
AND AS WENT INTO JAIL, I WAS THE JAIL COMMANDER FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.
AND, UH, WHEN HE WAS LEFT IN CHARGE OF THAT, IT SIGNIFIED TO ME THAT THERE NEVER WAS ANY ISSUE WITH HIM IN
[01:15:01]
TERMS OF HIS PERFORMANCE.AND SO WE DISCUSSED THAT, UH, I ADVISED RICKY WHAT HIS ALTERNATIVES WERE.
WE WERE SKIPPED AND HE PROCEEDED TO DO WHAT I ADVISED HIM.
SO YOU MENTIONED, UH, THIS RICKY GOING TO THE FIRST, TO THE PROPERTY.
I THINK, UH, I THINK HE SAID THE QUARTERMASTER PROPERTY BACK IN JUNE, TALKING ABOUT JUNE, 2025.
AND WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE, UH, TO, FOR HIM TO BE TOLD TO GO TO THE QUARTER MASTERS? YES.
WHAT IS THAT, WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THEY CLEAR.
THEY, THEY RUN AN AUDIT ON YOU.
THEY CLEAR YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE NO OUTSTANDING LOST PROPERTY ITEMS. UH, THEY, WHEN I GOT PROMOTED, THEY MEASURED ME AND LOOKED AT, UH, THE NUMBER OF STRIPES I NEEDED ON MY SHOULDER.
YOU KNOW, WHAT SIDE, MY UNIFORMS ARE ALL THOSE THINGS IN ANTICIPATION OF BEING PROMOTED.
BUT THE MAIN THING IS TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL PROPERTY IS ACCOUNTED FOR.
IF YOU HAVE EXTRA PAIR OF PANTS OR A SHIRT, JUST A GENERAL OVERALL AUDIT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE CLEAR AND THEY ACTUALLY CHECK OFF IN THAT PROMOTIONAL PACKAGE.
DO OKAY WITH QUARTERMASTER, YOU OKAY WITH PUBLIC INTEGRITY OR NO INVESTIGATIONS? YOU OKAY WITH INTERNAL AFFAIRS? SO THAT'S PART OF THAT STEP BY STEP ABBREVIATED PROCESS THAT YOU GO TO PRIOR TO THE MOTION.
SO THAT, THAT THE, THE FACT THAT THAT PROCESS WAS INITIATED, THAT MADE YOU TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE PROMOTED? YES.
AND THEN YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU ANTICIPATED HE'D BE PROMOTED IN AUGUST, BUT THAT YOU WERE TOLD THAT THAT WOULD BE DELAYED UNTIL SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER, IS THAT RIGHT? YES.
I HAD A BUSINESS ENGAGEMENT FOR THE WEEK THAT HE TOLD ME HE WAS GONNA GET PROMOTED.
I THINK IT WAS THE SECOND MONDAY, AUGUST OF 2025.
I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DATE, MAY HAVE BEEN THE 10TH OR WHATEVER.
AND I SAID, RICHARD, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO MAKE IT TO YOUR PROMOTION.
I MAY BREAK OVER IN CLASS, BUT I'M POSITIVE IT WAS A MONDAY, UH, A TUESDAY HE WAS SUPPOSED TO GET PROMOTED.
I WAS INVOLVED IN THE CONFERENCE HERE IN DALLAS AND COULDN'T MAKE IT, BUT I WISH HIM GOOD LUCK AND CONGRATULATIONS.
AND I TOLD HIM I THINK HE WOULD BE A GREAT LIEUTENANT.
NOW THE BOOK IN FRONT OF YOU THERE, YOU WOULD TURN TO TAB NUMBER SIX, GOING TO PAGE 106.
THERE AT THE BOTTOM, THAT'S MARKED AS THE BOTTOM.
YOU SAID TAB NUMBER SIX? YEAH.
IF YOU DO GET TURN TAB NUMBER SIX.
SO THIS IS THE UH, OCTOBER STRENGTH REPORT LIST DEPARTMENT.
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE STRENGTH REPORTS? YES.
UM, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT.
I USED TO REVIEW IT EVERY DAY.
DO YOU SEE THIS BOARD CODE 2193 THERE ON THE PAGE? YES, I DO YOU SEE THE POSITION THERE, LIEUTENANT? IT HAS ACROSS FROM THERE SIX AUTHORIZED ZERO ACTUAL OVER UNDER IS MAJOR SIX.
SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN, IN LAY'S TERMS AS FAR AS AT THIS, AT THIS TIME IN OCTOBER, WERE THERE POSITIONS TO BE PROMOTED INTO AS LIEUTENANT? YES.
IT MEANS THAT THERE ARE SIX VACANCIES.
AND THE WORD AUTHORIZED WOULD BE THAT THERE'S BUDGET OR THERE'S MONEY FOR IT.
AND YOU SEE THERE'S ALSO TWO NEGATIVE TWO FOR MAJOR AND NEGATIVE ONE FOR DEPUTY CHIEF.
DOES THAT, DOES THE, DOES THE NEGATIVE NUMBERS VARY MAJOR IN DEPUTY CHIEF? DOES THAT IMPACT THE POSSIBILITY FOR A PROMOTION TO LIEUTENANT IN ANY WAY? IF TWO MAJORS ARE PROMOTED, THEY ARE PROMOTED FROM THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT, THAT WOULD'VE ADD AN ADDITIONAL TWO LIEUTENANTS TO THAT SIX MAKE OVERALL TOTAL EIGHT THAT NOT VACANT IT.
AND IF YOU'LL TURN TO PAGE ONE 18, I'M THERE.
IT, SEE THERE'S A DIFFERENT FOUR CODE THERE.
WE SEE POLICE LIEUTENANT NEGATIVE THREE THERE.
AND THEN BELOW THAT YOU SEE THREE DIFFERENT, UH, PI NUMBERS.
[01:20:01]
AND THEN THERE ARE VACANCIES LISTED FOR THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT THREE VACANCIES.WHAT DO YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THAT THAT ORG, I'M NOT SURE WHAT 2194 IS, HAS BEEN A AMOUNT SINCE I ACTUALLY EACH ORG REPRESENTS PERSONNEL 2 1 1 5 GENERAL SOUNDS 2 1, 6 3.
WITHOUT HAVING A REFERENCE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ORG 2194 IS, BUT WHATEVER DIVISION OR SPECIALIZED UNIT IN THE DEPARTMENT THAT'S IDENTIFIED BY THIS ORGANIZATION, CODE 2194, THEY HAVE THREE VACANCIES.
AND THAT SPECIALIZED UNIT THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT VACANCIES THAN THE ONES ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE WE LOOKED AT? YES.
EACH ONE OF THOSE ORG CODES REPRESENTS A DISTINCT DIVISION OF SPECIALIZED UNITS, UH, IN THE DEPARTMENT.
BUT WE KNOW, UH, BACK IN OCTOBER LAST YEAR, YOU WERE AWARE OF RICKY SCOTT BEING ON THE NUMBER ONE POSITION TO PROMOTE.
UH, DID YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE POSITIONS FOR HIM TO PROMOTE INTO AT THAT TIME BEFORE THE LIST EXPIRED? YES, THERE WERE POSITIONS.
UH, SO DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHY HE DIDN'T PROVIDE IT? I SPECIFICALLY CONTACTED A MEMBER OF THE COMMAND STAFF BY PHONE ONE EVENING, I THINK IT WAS A WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY EVENING, AND ASKED WHY HE WAS NOT REMOVED.
BUT WHAT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING, WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF WHY RICKY SCOTT WAS NOT PROMOTED? I WAS GIVEN A RESPONSE BY MS.
AND WHAT, WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU WERE TOLD THAT? I DON'T, UP THE PHONE CALLED WIKI AND TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS INFORMATION GIVEN TO ME.
AND THEN I CALLED THE ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT THAT I WORKED WITH AND I CALLED ANOTHER ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT ALL IN THE SAME DAY AND SAID, Y'ALL NEED TO LOOK INTO THIS.
ASKED THE CHIEF ABOUT IT, TALK TO PEOPLE AND GET SOME TYPE OF RESPONSE.
IM TOLD THAT THERE ARE NO VACANCIES AND I KNOW FOR A FACT ACCORDING TO I WM AND ACCORDING TO THE BUDGET THAT STARTED ON MY TWO POINT THAT THERE ARE VACANCIES.
SO WHEN THIS PERSON TOLD YOU THERE WERE NO VACANCIES, YOU'RE SAYING YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE? CORRECT.
ACCORDING TO CERTIFIED DOCUMENTS HERE BY THE DALLAS P-D-I-W-M, UH, AND AWARD CIE, AND ACCORDING TO THE BUDGET, WHICH IS PUBLIC RECORDATION.
NOW IN THIS GRIEVANCE, RICKY SCOTT IS ALLEGING THAT THE REASON THAT HE WAS NOT PROMOTED IS BECAUSE HE IS, UH, A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER CLASSIFIED AS PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED, UM, FOR PERFORMING ALL THE ESSENTIAL PATROL OFFICER BY THE POLICY OF THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? CORRECT? YES, I DO.
SO THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS A POLICY FOR OFFICERS THAT ARE DISABLED OFFICER, CORRECT? YES.
AND THROUGH THAT POLICY, THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, IT'S A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION FOR THESE DISABLED OFFICERS, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? CORRECT.
AND RICKY SCOTT IS ONE OF THOSE DISABLED LAWS, CORRECT? YES.
RICKY SCOTT IS ALLEGING HE WAS NOT PROMOTED BECAUSE HE'S A DISABLED PERSON.
DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, EVIDENCE OR TESTIMONY THAT WOULD SUPPORT RICKY SCOTT AND THAT THAT CLIENT? I'VE NOT BEEN PRESENT IN ANY MEETINGS, BUT I HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE PRESENT AND THEY WERE TOLD AND THEY INFORMED ME THAT HE WAS NOT GETTING PROMOTED BECAUSE HE WAS ON LIGHT DUTY AND THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A POLICY OF THE DEPARTMENT.
UH, OF COURSE MY HISTORY WITH THE DEPARTMENT GOES BACK 40 YEARS AND I WAS AROUND WHEN THAT POLICY WAS PROMULGATED.
THE DEPARTMENT HAD TO SET ASIDE A LITTLE OVER 2% OF THE ACTUAL STRENGTH TO PUT THESE OFFICERS IN.
WERE NOT ABLE TO PERFORM FULL DUTY.
AND AT THE TIME THAT THE POLICY WAS PUT IN PLACE, IT WAS A KNOWN FACT AND IT WAS MADE AWARE, AND I SAW IT DEMONSTRATED DOZENS OF TIMES WHERE, UH, IF YOU WERE ONLY AT THE LIST, THAT DIDN'T STOP YOU FROM GETTING ANY OF THE EMPLOYEE
[01:25:01]
BENEFITS.YOUR PAY PAY INCREASES, YOUR PROMOTIONS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO IN MY CAREER, I NEVER SAW IT HAPPEN WHERE SOMEONE WAS DENIED THE ABILITY TO PROMOTED IF THEY WERE ELIGIBLE AND HAD TESTED AND STORED WELL ENOUGH AND HAD PASSED THE BACKGROUND.
UH, AND PERSONALLY FAMILIAR WITH ONE OFFICER WHO WAS PART OF THAT ORIGINAL CASE THAT WAS DENIED SOME EMPLOYEE BENEFITS AND HE WENT BACK IN THE PROCESS AND THE CITY HAD TO CORRECT IT AND HE'S NO LONGER WITH US.
HE'S RETIRED NOW, BUT I WAS AN ACTIVE ASSOCIATION LEADER AT THE TIME.
YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT? THAT OFFICER, HE WAS ONE OF THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY BECAME A PLAINTIFF IN THAT PROCESS THAT PUSHED THE CITY OF, THAT THE CITY AGREED TO GO INTO PASS THE WITNESS.
MR. MARTIN, JUST FOLLOW UP ON THAT.
UH, SIR, UM, YOU SAID YOU PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE.
YOU SAID JJ I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THE LAST NAME? GERALD.
AND YOU WERE SAYING HE WAS A PLAINTIFF IN THE CASE WITH REGARDS TO EMPLOYEE BENEFITS
AND WHEN WAS THIS? IT WAS 30 SOMETHING YEARS AGO.
SO 30 SOMETHING YEARS AGO THAT HE, THIS, THIS OFFICER, UH, WAS PART OF THE PURSUIT WITH REGARDS TO THE DOCUMENT BENEFITS? I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS EVER A LAWSUIT.
HE WAS A PARTY TO THE PROCESS THAT STARTED HIS, HIS INJURY ON AN AUTO DUTY SKIING ACCIDENT PRECIPITATED THE START OF THIS POLICY.
AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE DEPARTMENT, OTHER THAN MR, OTHER THAN THAT'S LAST NAME AGAIN, OTHER THAN JJ, UH, YOU SAID THAT YOU HAVE NOT, UH, WITNESSED AN EXPERIENCE WHERE SOMEBODY WAS NOT PROMOTED BECAUSE OF A DISABILITY.
SO WHAT WERE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN WHAT, IN OCTOBER 20, 25? I WAS NOT WITH THE DEPARTMENT.
I I I'VE GOT A LOT, YOU GOT A LOT OF DATES WRITTEN HERE, SO SORRY ABOUT THAT.
UM, SO WHAT IS YOUR BASIS FOR SAYING, YOU MENTIONED THE BUDGET AND IWM, WHAT IS YOUR BASIS FOR SAYING WHAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE WERE OPEN LIEUTENANTS POSITIONS THAT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FILLED? UH, I HAVE FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE.
UH, I WAS INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS REPRESENTING OFFICERS IN A GRIEVANCE THAT, UH, WENT IN FROM THIS BOARD LAST SEPTEMBER.
AND AT THAT 20 SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER, 2025, I WAS LY INVOLVED IN FOLLOWING THE NUMBERS, LOOKING AT IWM, REVIEWING REPORTS, REVIEWING CHIEFS UPDATES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
WHEN YOU SAY IWM, WERE YOU REFERRING TO KIND WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT EARLIER? WHAT IS I A MONTHLY STRENGTH UP? WHAT IS THE STRENGTH OF? YES.
AND SO YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOU'RE NOT SURE WHAT UNIT THAT 2 1 5 4, THAT'S CORRECT.
WHAT IS 2 1 9 3? I DON'T KNOW EACH, THERE ARE DOZENS OF UNITS IN THE DEPARTMENT.
EACH ONE OF THEM HAS
LAST ONE I LOOKED AT, I THINK IT WAS 2163.
I WORKED AT 2115, WHICH IS PERSONNEL.
THEY ALL HAVE DIFFERENT NUMBERS TOO.
AND HOW MANY WITHOUT ANY DOCUMENTS
I CAN USE MY, I'M SORRY, JOHN, WHAT IS THE SCORE? FOUR.
YEAH, THAT'S GONNA BE NUMBER TWO.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC EXHIBITS BEFORE YOU LOOKING AT FINAL COMBINED SCORES.
I'LL BE BASED ON JUST ONE SECOND.
[01:30:02]
SO AT THE BOTTOM, I SHOULD SAY 16, WOULD YOU SEE THE BIG NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM? 16? THOSE ARE ALL TAB TWO TWO WITH SNAP NUMBER 16.SORRY, TOOK, TOOK LONGER THAN A SECOND.
SO YOU, YOU, YOU LOOKED AT THIS EARLIER WITH MR. SNYDER AND YOU SAID THAT THIS IS THE, UH, UH, COMBINED SCORE LIST FOR THE LIEUTENANT TO HAVE THAT TO SPOT THAT EXPIRED ON OCTOBER 12TH, CORRECT? YES.
AND MR. SERGEANT SCOTT IS 3 29 ON THAT LIST, CORRECT? YES.
AND THE LAST PERSON, THE LAST TWO PEOPLE PROMOTED JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE EXPIRATION WERE JACOB
ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYBODY BELOW MR. SCOTT THAT WAS PROMOTED ON THIS LIST? NO, I'M NOT.
BECAUSE YOU USED THE WORD SKIPPED A FEW TIMES.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY BELOW HIM WAS PROMOTED INSTEAD OF HIM FOR THIS, FOR THE CYCLE, CORRECT? NO, NO, SIR.
MR. DO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
YOU AND, UH, TURN AND I TURN OFF
AND IT THAT, UH, CHIEF ALEX AND CHIEF
ARE WE GOING TO JUST KEEP GOING? ARE WE TAKING A BREAK? IS IT, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE A LUNCH HERE, SO OBVIOUSLY IF WE'RE GONNA KEEP ON GOING, WE MAY TAKE A, IF WE NEED A BATHROOM BREAK AS FAR TIME ASSUME WANNA CALL THE DEER? WE TAKE A BREAK.
STILL WANT ME TO GET A UP? SEE, UH, YEAH.
HOW LONG WILL THAT, HOW, HOW, HOW LONG A BREAK CAN WE NEED YOU RIGHT NOW? OH, I DON'T NEED, I DON'T NEED A BREAK RIGHT NOW, BUT, UM, I'M GOING TO DO ONE MORE WITNESS AND THEN WE PROBABLY WILL NEED A BREAK.
I WOULD PROBABLY NEED FIVE MINUTES JUST TO CALL.
MAKE SURE THAT I TALK TO THEM.
SAY, YEAH, YOU CAN DO THAT NOW.
SO MY, MY NEXT WITNESS MAY NOT TAKE 20 MINUTES.
I PROBABLY, YEAH, ON OUR END WE DIDN'T TAKE A SHORT BREAK.
HOW WILL IT TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK AND GET, WE'LL GET FOLKS READY TO GO.
YOUR TIME IS 1114 AND WE ARE HOME.
UM, MR. WILSON, DO YOU HAVE THE STATE? THANK YOU, SIR.
WE HAVE, WE'LL GO BACK ON THE RECORD.
MR. STEINER, IF YOU HAVE A WITNESS OATH? YES, SIR.
SERGEANT EDWARDS, WOULD YOU, UH, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, YOUR POSITION IN THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT? YES.
I'M MH SERGEANT WITH THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
I HAVE SERVED ON DALLAS POLICE FOR 25 YEARS, HONORABLY.
UM, I AM CURRENTLY ASSIGNED TO LEGAL SERVICES WHERE I, UM, HOLD A PERMANENT COMMISSION.
ADMINISTRATIVE
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YES, SIR.
AND THAT'S WHAT I GUESS AROUND THE DEPARTMENT, THEY CALL IT, UH, LIGHT DUTY POSITIONS? YES, SIR.
AND SO DO YOU OCCUPY A, UH, ONE OF THESE POSITIONS AS A OFFICER THAT'S PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING OF ALL THE, UH, SENSORY DUTIES OF A PATROL OFFICER? YES, SIR.
AND, AND APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD THAT, UH, UH, DESIGNATION IN THE DEPARTMENT? UM, FIVE YEARS.
I AM A 100% DISABLED VETERAN, AND I WAS DEPLOYED TO IRAQ.
AND WHEN I CAME BACK, I HAD SOME ISSUES FROM THAT PARTICULAR DEPLOYMENT, WHICH RENDERED ME TO BE, UH, DISABLED.
SO I CANNOT PERFORM 100% OF THE, UM, ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS OF A POLICE OFFICER, BUT I STILL HAVE VALUE TO THE DEPARTMENT.
AND, AND ONCE YOU RETURNED, AFTER YOU, YOU KNOW, YOUR SERVICE TO THE NATION, THE DEPARTMENT, UH, THEY MADE ACCOMMODATIONS TO YOUR, FOR YOUR DISABILITY, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
THEY HAVE ALWAYS MADE ACCOMMODATIONS UP TO THIS PARTICULAR YEAR.
UM, THIS YEAR, UNDER CHIEF CUOMO, WE WERE ORDERED TO ALL OF THE PERMANENT LIGHT DUTY PERSONNEL THAT ARE CONSIDERED NON-OCCUPATIONAL.
UM, THAT MEANS THAT YOU WERE NOT, UH, INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY
[01:35:01]
AT WORK PER SE.WE WERE ORDERED TO UNDERGO A DENTIST FOR DUTY EXAM.
AND, UM, WHEN I TOOK MY PAPERWORK TO MY TREATING PHYSICIAN, WHO HAS TREATED ME FROM THE TIME THAT I WAS DEPLOYED UP UNTIL NOW AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO, UM, MANAGER RIC
BUT NOT ALL OF THEM HAD, SHE SUGGESTED THAT I CHANGE THE DOCUMENT TO SAY UNFIT FOR DUTY, AND I TOLD HER THAT I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT CHANGE IT TO SAY UNFIT FOR DUTY BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT MY DOCTOR SAID.
UM, I FACED FURTHER SCREW ME FROM, UM, LIEUTENANT BLANCHARD, WHO, UM, ALSO SENT AN EMAIL SAYING THAT I NEEDED TO HAVE A DOCTOR TO SAY
THEN I WAS ALSO GIVEN A VERBAL COUNSELING BECAUSE OF MY RESPONSE AND EMAIL.
UM, THEY SAID THAT BASICALLY I WAS AGGRESSIVE BECAUSE I SAID THAT I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT, AND I WOULD SAY IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT CHANGE WHAT THE DOCTOR SAID.
SO THIS EXPERIENCE YOU'VE HAD ABOUT PEOPLE MAKING YOU DO FITNESS FOR DUTY EXAMS, PEOPLE SUGGESTING THAT YOU DECLARE YOURSELF UNFIT FOR DUTY, THUS THAT'S ALL SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENED RECENTLY, IS THAT RIGHT? YES, SIR.
UM, I THINK IT WAS SENT FULLY, BUT I BELIEVE IT SAID LARGE.
THEN, UM, THEY GAVE US ALL LETTERS AND TOLD US THAT WE HAD TO TAKE THESE LEVERAGE TO OUR TREATING PHYSICIAN.
THEY DID NOT SEND US TO A CITY PHYSICIAN.
THEY SENT US TO OUR PRIVATE TREATING PHYSICIANS, WHICH MINE JUST HAPPENS TO BE A VETERAN DOCTOR BECAUSE I, I GO TO THE VA, TO DALLAS VA VETERAN AFFAIRS.
YOU SAID MARCH WAS, YOU MEAN MARCH OF THIS YEAR? YES.
AND, UH, BEFORE CHIEF CUOMO'S TENURE, WERE YOU EVER REQUIRED TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS FOR YOUR POSITION AS LIKE THIS? NO, SIR.
I HAVE NEVER BEEN SUBJECTED TO SUCH TREATMENT UNTIL CHIEF GALL, MR. MARTIN.
UM, DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY, UH, WHEN YOU WERE PROMOTED TO THE RANK SERGEANT? I WAS PROMOTED EXACTLY IN APRIL OF 2019.
AND AT THAT TIME, DID YOU ALREADY HAVE, UM, A DISABILITY THAT YOU DISCUSSED? NO, SIR.
SO WHEN DID THE DISABILITY GET KILLED? I WAS, AGAIN, I WAS DECLARED A HUNDRED PERCENT DISABLED, WELL, IN AUGUST OF 2023.
SO IT WAS AUGUST, 2023 AROUND THE TIME THAT YOU STARTED THE LIGHT DUTY ASSIGNMENT WITH LEGAL? NO, I STARTED THE LIGHT DUTY ASSIGNMENT IN 2021 BECAUSE ALREADY THERE WERE SOME ISSUES FROM THAT DEPLOYMENT.
UM, WITH REGARDS TO THE, UH, FITNESS FOR DUTY IS, IS FITNESS FOR DUTY DISCUSSED THAT, UH, UH, I GENERAL ORDERS? UH, I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE, BUT YES IT IS.
UM, THERE IS SOMETHING THAT SAYS THAT, UM, THERE ARE CASES THAT IF AN OFFICER DISPLAYS SOME TYPE OF MENTAL ILLNESS OR SOME TYPE OF MENTAL, UM, IF THEY'RE ACTING IRRATIONAL, THEN THE CHIEF OF POLICE WILL ASK FOR A FITNESS FOR DUTY.
BUT IF THEY ARE PERFORMING THEIR JOB AT A STANDARD THAT IS NORMAL, THERE'S NO NEED, TECO DOES NOT REQUIRE A FITNESS FOR DUTY EXAM.
SO YOU WERE ALLEGING THAT WHEN YOU WERE ASKED TO GO FOR FITNESS FOR DUTY, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE SAYING YOU WEREN'T ASKED TO DO THAT PREVIOUSLY, BUT YOU WERE SAYING THERE'S NO BASIS AND THE ORDERS
THE OTHER THING KNOW, I SAID FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS ACTED IRRATIONAL, UM, AS A MATTER OF FACT, UM, THE PERMANENT LIKE DUTY PERSONS THAT WERE ORDERED TO TAKE, UNDERGO THIS FITNESS
[01:40:01]
FOR DUTY WERE ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLASSIFIED AS NON-OCCUPATIONAL.THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY.
THE PEOPLE WHO WERE INJURED, THE OFFICERS WHO WERE INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY WERE NOT ORDERED TO TAKE THIS FITNESS FOR DUTY EXAM.
AND WHEN YOU SAY THAT FITNESS FOR DUTY EXAM IS ONLY, UH, ALLOWED FOR, FOR MENTAL ISSUES, WHAT IS YOUR BASIS FOR SAYING THAT YOU DO NOT THE GENERAL ORDER CITIZEN IS HONOR ANYMORE? UH, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER.
SERGEANT, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
SO THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY TOO.
WE DO APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.
AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
WE, WE, WE RESPECT THAT VERY MUCH.
I WANNA THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TOO.
DO YOU MIND IF I STEP OUT, SEE THE WITNESS? THAT RIGHT? YES.
SO DID YOUR WITNESS WELL, YEAH, I MEAN,
SOMEBODY CALLED WITH, YOU WANT ME TO STEP OUT TO SEE IF SHE FELL? HE'S HANDLING WITH THIS FOR ME.
STILL DO YOU, DO YOU GET TEXTS ON THE SCREEN AS SOON AS DO? OKAY.
THE ONLY THING ABOUT THIS JOB IS THE RINGER ON THE MAIL.
SO WE HAVE PURPOSE AND UPWARDS AND EVERYTHING THAT, SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PUTTING IN A NUMBER VERSUS PUTTING IN A WORD? LIKE DO YOU HAVE TO ENTER THE
[01:45:01]
NUMBERS FOR IT TO CALL THE WORD? OKAY.UM, IF, IF MR. MARTIN'S TALKING, I SAY SPEAK TO SPEED AND IT'LL SAY MR. IF MR. THE TWO OF THEM SPIN UP, SAY, WELL, RACHEL, GOOD, LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT.
YEAH, YOU C EIGHT, IT'S A GOOD NUMBER.
JUST, JUST SWORN IN AS SOON AS WE GET THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS ALL UP AND RUNNING ON THE SCREEN.
WE HAVE EVERYBODY HERE ON THE SCREEN.
UH, WE CAN HAVE YOU SWORN IN PLEASE.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE FULL TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? ANYTHING? THANK YOU.
SO YOU'RE, UH, YOU'RE THE EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT CHIEF OF POLICE, CORRECT? YES.
SO YOU'RE, UH, AND HOW MANY, THERE'S, HOW MANY, UH, PEOPLE ARE YOUR RANK? THERE ARE THREE.
SO YOU, BUT YOUR RANK IS DIRECTLY BELOW CHIEF OF POLICE? YES, I HAVE THREE.
UM, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, UH, GUESS WHAT, SOMETIMES IT'S REFERRED TO AS THE LIGHT DUTY PROGRAM.
AND THAT BOOK IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU WOULD TURN THE CAP NUMBER NINE PAGE.
THERE'S PAGE THREE 12, THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER.
SO THIS IS THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT GENERAL ORDER REPORT.
UH, 4 0 7 0.10 SAYS, INITIAL ASSIGNMENT OF OFFICERS PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING PATROL FUNCTIONS.
THIS ONCE A SWORN OFFICERS DEEMED PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING ESSENTIAL JOB OF POLICE OFFICERS AND IT REFERENCES THE CIVIL ACTION NUMBER.
CIVIL ACTION 3 9 9 CV 14 9 7 2.
THE PERSONNEL DIVISION WILL MAKE THE INITIAL JOB ASSIGNMENT AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE MOTOR NEEDS PATROL, UH, BUREAU COMMANDER AND INVOLVING THE EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT CHIEF OF POLICE FACTORS MAY BE CONSIDERED IN THE ASSIGNMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO WHAT WAS CURRENT ASSIGNMENT INSTRUCTION AND EXPERIENCE.
AND THESE OF THE PARTS SO THAT THIS POLICY IS, UM, DIRECTED AT THE ACCOMMODATING OFFICERS THAT HAVE A DISABILITY THAT PERMANENTLY RESTRICTS THEM FOR PERFORMING, UH, SOME OF THE ESSENTIAL JOB FUNCTIONS OF A POLICE OFFICER.
AND DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS POLICY WAS DEVELOPED AS PART OF A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, UH, FOR A, A, A LAWSUIT, RIGHT? YES.
AND THAT WAS MANY YEARS AGO, PROBABLY BEFORE 2020 OR MORE YEARS AGO WHEN THE LAWSUIT TOOK PLACE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YES, SIR.
AND SINCE THAT TIME, OFFICERS THAT, UH, CURRENT DALLAS POLICE OFFICERS THAT BECOME DISABLED IN SOME WAY, UH, THEY COULD STILL KEEP THEIR JOB AND STILL BE USEFUL TO THE DEPARTMENT, CORRECT? ABSOLUTELY.
AND AS PART OF THE, UH, PART OF THE PROGRAM, UH, THE OFFICERS ARE, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS ARE CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE PROGRAM, AS PART OF THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND LAWSUIT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
[01:50:01]
AND ARE YOU, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE, THE PROGRAM, CORRECT? YES.THAT WORK REQUIRED FOR, UH, KEEP, WAIT, I THINK IT'S 2.03 OR OH 5% OF OUR STAFF FOR THESE SPECIFIC BLACKITY ASSIGNMENTS, OKAY? MM-HMM.
AND, UH, THE POLICY, DOES IT MAKE ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHETHER OR NOT A POLICE OFFICER BECOMES DISABLED IN THE, UH, 'CAUSE OF SOMETHING IN THE LINE OF DUTY OR ON THE JOB I SHOULD SAY, OR OFF DUTY? NO.
SO THERE'S, I'VE HEARD SOME PEOPLE MENTION OCCUPATIONAL VERSUS NON-OCCUPATIONAL DISABILITY.
THAT'S NOT PART OF THE POLICY, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT PART OF THE POLICY.
SO THIS, THIS GENERAL ORDER RECOGNIZED ITS OBLIGATION UNDER THE SETTLE AGREEMENT.
UM, HAS THERE BEEN ANY CHANGE TO IT? NO.
UH, BUT THE, THE, THE DEPARTMENT WANTS TO TERMINATE THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, IS THAT RIGHT? THEY RECEIVED A LETTER.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE DEPARTMENT WANTS TO, AND YOU HAVE TO FORGIVE ME BECAUSE I'M NOT AT ALL THE TABLES.
UM, WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, THIS WAS, UH, APART THE SETTLEMENT AND I, THAT WAS BEFORE ME.
BUT THERE ARE SOME DISCUSSIONS AS TO HOW THE DEPARTMENT CHOOSES TO MOVE FORWARD, BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN AT THE TABLE.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT SPECIFICALLY WHICH DIRECTION THE DEPARTMENT WANTS TO GO, BUT THE DEPARTMENT, THE, THEIR DESIRE TO TERMINATE CIVIL AGREEMENT THAT CAME ABOUT UNDER CHIEF COLMAN'S TENURE, CORRECT? UH, I'LL OBJECT THAT MS, THAT'S THE TESTIMONY SHE SAID SHE DOESN'T KNOW.
CAN YOU TURN TO THE PAGE TO THE NEXT TAB? UH, REFERENCING EIGHT? YEAH.
THAT'S PAGE THREE 13 AND THREE 14.
UM, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS LETTER BEFORE? NO, THIS IS NOT ADDRESSED TO ME.
SO THIS IS DATED MARCH 26TH, 2026, AND IT'S FROM, UH, THE DALLAS CITY ATTORNEY.
UM, WHAT EXECUTIVE CITY ATTORNEY, MS. SARAH AL.
DO YOU SEE THAT? I'LL, I'LL OBJECT TO THE RELEVANCE.
SHE STATED SHE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE.
IS HE ASKING HER TO TESTIFY AS TO YEAH, HONOR, THIS IS SOME BACKGROUND, BUT, BUT, BUT SHE HASN'T SEEN IT BEFORE.
WHAT HAVE, RATHER THAN
I I THOUGHT YOU WERE GETTING READY TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THE LETTER SHE SEEN BEFORE.
WELL, HE WAS ASKING AND VERIFYING, SO ASKING QUESTION ABOUT IT.
WHEN, WHEN THE DATE LETTER IS WHAT IT SAYS.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK HER.
SO CHIEF, THIS IS BEFORE YOU GO MRS. I'LL MAKE THE SAME OBJECTION AS TO ASKING HER TO AUTHENTICATE WHAT IS IN THE LETTER BECAUSE SHE'S NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE.
IT'S, IT'S ADMITTED IN EVIDENCE.
LET'S SEE, WHAT, WHAT THE SPECIFIC QUESTION IS THE DATE OF THE LETTER THAT'S FIRMER.
THE, THE SUBSTANCE IS, UH, WOULD BE PROBABLY DIFFERENT RULING.
SO THIS LE THIS LETTER IS AT THE BOTTOM.
SHE IS ONE OF THE CITY ATTORNEYS AND THE SUBJECT LINE HERE IS DALLAS POLICE ASSOCIATION, ATAL CITY OF DALLAS.
IT SAYS NOTICE OF INTENT TO TERMINATE SETTLEMENT.
AND WE SEE DOWN HERE, UH, SECOND PARAGRAPH, UH, KIND IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT SECOND PARAGRAPH.
AS I AM NOTIFYING YOU THAT THE CITY OF DALLAS, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT TENDS TO TERMINATE ANY CONTINUAL OBLIGATION SET FORTH IN THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.
MR. CHAIR, AGAIN IS ASKING HER ABOUT THE CONTENT OF LETTER SAYS SHE'S NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
WHAT'S THE RECORD? I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE OBJECTION.
IT'S IN EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF RELEVANCE FOR A LETTER THAT WAS SENT MONTHS AFTER RICKY SCOTT WAS NOT PROMOTED IN QUESTION BEFORE THE ORDER HE NOT PROMOTED BECAUSE AGAIN, LET'S, LET'S NOT, I DON'T WANNA TALK OVER, I'M SORRY.
YEAH, LET'S NOT TALK OVER ONE ANOTHER.
AND, AND AGAIN, YOUR, YOUR OBJECTION IS, SHE, SHE, ALL SHE IS DOING IS READING FOR THE LETTER.
AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE WE CAN ALL READ THE LETTER
[01:55:01]
AND SHE HASN'T SEEN THE LETTER BEFORE.SO I MEAN, I GUESS YOU WANNA SAY LYING ENFORCE SAYS THIS LINE BOX THAT I GUESS WE CAN DO THAT.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE POINT IS FOR SOME OF THAT, THAT WERE IN THE LETTER.
CAN'T TESTIFY AS TO HER TESTIMONY, WHAT SHE WASN'T AT THE TABLE IF THERE THESE DISCUSSIONS WERE HAD.
SO IT IS ALREADY INTRODUCED INTO EVIDENCE.
IF YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH IT LINE BY LINE, WE CAN.
I'M NOT SURE IF IT GETS US ANYWHERE.
SO THAT'S BEEN ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE.
SO, UH, SO THIS MARCH 26TH LETTER OF CITY ATTORNEY TELLING THE DALLAS POLICE ASSOCIATION, THAT'S GOING TO TERMINATE THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, THAT IS THE BASIS OF THE GENERAL ORDER THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YES, SIR.
AND THIS, UH, CHIEF OF POLICE AT THE TIME OF THIS LETTER IS CHIEF CU? YES.
AND, UM, WERE YOU AWARE IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT INTENDED TO TERMINATE THE, SETTLE THE CREEK? NO.
UM, HE COME MEETS WITH THE EXECUTIVE OVER AT CITY HALL OFTEN FROM THE MAYOR AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT WORKED AT THE CITY MANAGER.
AND WERE NOT PRIVY TO THOSE, SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS.
WERE YOU AWARE TODAY BEFORE I SHOWED YOU THIS LETTER, THAT THE, THAT THE DEPARTMENT INTENDS TO TERMINATE THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE DEPARTMENT'S INTENT OR NOT.
I KNOW WHEN IT CAME TO AS I'M PREPARED AND, AND I SAT THROUGH, UH, MR. SCOTT'S, UH, GRIEVANCE THAT IT WAS CONCERNING, UM, THE LIGHTNING POLICIES.
SO THE, UH, NOW YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU, PRIOR TO THIS GRIEVANCE, THIS HEARING TODAY, THERE WAS A HEARING WITH CHIEF OMO THAT WAS A NECESSARY STEP IN THE GRIEVANCE PROCESS, RIGHT? YEAH.
THERE WAS A MEETING, NOT A HEARING, BUT THERE WAS A MEETING WITH CHIEF OMO REGARDING HIS GRIEVANCE OF APPEAL.
AND THEN, AND YOU WERE PRESENT DURING THE MEETING? YES, SIR.
AND IN THE MEETING, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT, OR YOU, YOU SPOKE ABOUT THE STRENGTH REPORT, IS THAT RIGHT? I THINK THAT SPOKE ABOUT THE STRENGTH REPORT.
I THINK WE DISCUSSED SPECIFICALLY WHAT MY ROLE WAS.
AND WHAT WAS THAT? IT'S HOW THE PROMOTIONS FALLS UNDER PERSONNEL.
UH, WE LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF POSITIONS THAT WE HAVE TO THE NUMBER OF VACANCIES AND COMPARE THE NEED.
UM, WHEN I SAY COMPARED TO EACH UNIT, EACH WATCH OF THE DEPARTMENT IS COMMANDED BY A LIEUTENANT.
SO IF THERE'S NOT A WATCH OR LIEUTENANT AVAILABLE, THEN WE JUST GO THERE.
IF WE HAVE FIVE SPOTS AVAILABLE, THEN FIVE LIEUTENANTS GET PROMOTED, SERGEANTS, SO ON AND SO FORTH.
SO CAN YOU TURN TO THEN THE BOOK, UH, TO TAB TWO PLEASE? OF THE PAGE AT THE BOTTOM? PAGE 16
THIS IS THE, UH, TENANT FIND SOURCE, BUT THERE'S A LIST OFF WHICH PEOPLE WOULD BE PROMOTED.
IS THAT CORRECT? AM I SAYING THAT RIGHT? YES.
THIS LIST WOULD ONLY CHANGE IF WE HAD, UM, A SERGEANT OR THAT WAS ON MILITARY LEAVE OR ON FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE THAT WERE UNABLE TO TAKE THE TEST AT THAT TIME, AT WHICH TIME THEY WILL BE ALLOWED TO TAKE THE TEST PER CIVIL SERVICE RULES.
AND, AND SOME, UH, INDIVIDUALS WOULD MOVE UP AND DOWN DEPENDING ON THE INDIVIDUAL SCHOOL.
AND SO THIS ONE SAYS THAT EXPIRES ON OCTOBER THE 12TH AND MM-HMM
AND WHEN WE LOOK ON THIS LIST, WE SEE AT POSITION 29, SEE RICKY SCOTT'S THERE? YES.
AND THEN, UH, ABOVE HIM IS DAVID BASIN.
NOW, DAVID BASIN, AT THE TIME IN, IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR, HE WAS NO LONGER WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH, I DON'T KNOW HIS EXACT DATE THAT HE, UH, LEFT THE DEPARTMENT, BUT HE WAS WITH THE DEPARTMENT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT SPECIFIC, HE WASN'T ELIGIBLE AT THE TIME OF THE PROMOTIONS WERE, UH, WELL, AT THE TIME THE LIST EXPIRED, HE WAS NO LONGER WITH THE DEPARTMENT.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? HE ANSWERED, YOU GAVE ME THE DATE THAT
[02:00:01]
HE LIVES, AND I CAN TELL YOU, I DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFIC DATE OFFHAND.YOU RECOGNIZE THIS, UH, TPO REPORT.
MR. CAN WE GET A COPY OF THAT? YEAH.
AND, AND FOR THE RECORD, LET ME, WE HAVE, WE, WE HAVE BOARD MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT HERE.
YOU LOOK UP, UH, WHAT FROM TCA, EXHIBITION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT EDUCATION AND IT HAS LISTED LIST LICENSES, CERTIFICATES AND AWARDS, UH, SERVICES WHERE THE PERSON EMPLOYED TO TRAINING IN CAREER HOURS AND SURE.
EITHER A CHIEF WHERE IT SAYS UNDER SERVICES YES.
LEFT AND I'M SORRY, FIVE 17 OR 25? YES.
YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO DOUBT THAT? NO.
EXHIBIT AMENDED FOR 11 COURT RECORD COPY.
YOU SAID IT WAS EXHIBIT NINE 11? YES, MA'AM.
SO IF IF HE'S, I'M SORRY, AHEAD.
OBVIOUSLY, IF, UH, DATABASE AND LEFT THE DEPARTMENT IN MAIN, HE COULDN'T, HE WOULDN'T BE ELIGIBLE FOR GROWTH, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND SINCE DIESEL CHAMBERS WAS PROMOTED, AND SO WAS, UH, JACOB
WHILE THE LIST WAS STILL ACTIVE, RICKY SCOTT, AND THE, THE NUMBER ONE ION TO PROVIDE, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? YES.
SO IF YOU WOULD, UH, PLEASE TURN TO
AND CAN YOU GIVE US THAT PAGE NUMBER AGAIN? YEAH, IT'S GONNA BE PAGE 106, THE BOTTOM RIGHT.
SO LOOK FOR THE PAGE NUMBER ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT, CHIEF? YES, I'M SORRY.
SO THIS IS THE OCTOBER STRENGTH.
CAN YOU JUST LIKE EXPLAIN MORE BROADLY WHAT A STRENGTH REPORT IS? SO A STRENGTH REPORT BASICALLY GIVES YOU THE NUMBER OF AUTHORIZED POSITIONS THAT WE HAVE FROM THE CITY AS WELL AS THE ACTUAL STRENGTH.
SO AU IT THE, SO THE, THE POSITION YOU SEE IN THE STRENGTH REPORT AUTHORIZED POSITION, CORRECT? MM-HMM
AND THEN IT ALSO LISTS PEOPLE BY NAME IN THEIR, IF THEY'RE OCCUPYING POSITIONS IN THE STRENGTH REPORT, CORRECT? YES, IT DOES.
SO HERE WE SEE AN OR CODE, UH, 2193.
DO YOU HAVE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS? YES, THAT'S THE 2019, THAT'S OUR THE FUNDED ORG.
WE'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW, CHILD EXPLOITATION UNIT.
UH, DOES THIS, BUT THIS ORG CHART IS NOT A SPECIFIC UNIT.
I'M SORRY, HOW TO STATE? SO THIS BASICALLY WHAT THIS NUMBER IS NOT, SO WE, WE HAVE A, A FUNDED BOARD WHERE WE PUT, WE PUT ALL OF OUR, UM, POSITIONS AND, AND THIS REALLY A GHOST, UM, UNIT.
BUT THESE ARE FOR THE POSITIONS? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE A POSITION AND FAMILY VIOLENCE OR SOME SORT PATROL OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
SO THESE, SO THESE POSITIONS WHERE WE SEE DEPUTY CHIEF
[02:05:01]
OF POLICE ONE AUTHORIZED, THAT'S NEGATIVE ONE IN THE OVER AND UNDER COLUMN.SO THAT'S AN AUTHORIZED AND FUNDED POSITION.
AND SAME THING FOR POLICE LIEUTENANT.
AND SAME THING FOR POLICE MAJOR, CORRECT? CORRECT.
I'M SORRY, NEGATIVE SIX FOR POLICE LIEUTENANT, NEGATIVE TWO FOR MAJOR.
AND SO, UH, BUT THIS EFFECTIVELY MEANS THERE ARE SIX AUTHORIZED FUNDED POSITIONS FOR LIEUTENANT AT, AT THE OCTOBER STRENGTH REPORT, CORRECT? YES.
AND THERE WERE TWO PROMOTIONS TO LIEUTENANT THAT OCCURRED IN OCTOBER, RIGHT? LANIS AND CHAMBERS, YES.
DID THE TWO THAT WERE PROMOTED WAS, WAS THAT PART OF THE NEGATIVE SIX OR DO YOU KNOW? I, UH, NO, THEY RECALL THIS, THIS NUMBER AT THAT TIME, I'M NOT SURE.
DON'T BELIEVE THAT IN, IN, UH, OCTOBER THERE WERE ANY PROMOTIONS TO DID CHIEF OR TO MAJOR, IS THAT RIGHT? OCTOBER? DON'T I KNOW WE HAD TWO LIEUTENANTS, PROBABLY TWO MAJORS PUT IN THEIR, UH, RESIGNATION, WHICH ALLOWED US TO GO PICK UP TWO LIEUTENANTS, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THE, THE NUMBER CHANGED WHETHER THAT MAKE THAT SIX, FOUR OR SIX, I'M NOT SURE.
BUT AT ANY RATE, THERE WERE DEFINITELY AUTHORIZED AND FUNDED POSITIONS AVAILABLE IN OCTOBER
SO IF YOU WOULD TURN IT DOWN TO PAGE ONE 18? YES, SIR.
TWO ALEX, UM, HERE, IT'S A DIFFERENT R ORG CODE 2194.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT'S LOCATED.
AND THIS ONE, IT SHOWS THREE AUTHORIZED FUNDED POSITIONS FOR LIEUTENANT THAT, AND IT'S 300, CORRECT? YEAH.
AND BELOW THAT YOU SEE THE CALL, IT SAYS PI NUMBER, AND THEN IT'S, UH, THREE LIEUTENANT POSITIONS LISTED AS VACANT THERE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO IS IT, IS THIS DIFFERENT IF, IF, SO WE KNOW WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS FOUR CODE THAT WE HAVE THREE FUNDED AND AUTHORIZED LIEUTENANT POSITIONS, BUT THEN IT GOES A STEP FURTHER AND SAYS THERE'S THREE VACANT POSITIONS, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT? IT, BECAUSE IT SAYS IT'S VACANT THAN THE, UH, ON THE OTHER PAGE WHERE IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT WORDING? UM, NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE THE POSITIONS AND WE'RE, WE'RE CLICKED ON THE PERSONNEL.
JUST BECAUSE IT'S AUTHORIZED DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU FILL IT.
UM, LIKE I MENTIONED, UH, PREVIOUSLY, IT MAY SAY THAT WE'RE AUTHORIZED AND, AND POSITIONS ARE GIVEN TO US BY BUDGET ALL THE TIME, ESPECIALLY WITH, UM, PRO.
SO WE'RE GETTING POSITIONS AND POSITIONS ARE BEING REMOVED AS WELL.
BUT THE JOB WHERE, WHERE I SIT IS TO ENSURE THAT EVERY UNIT HAS A LIEUTENANT AND WE HAVE A SPAN PATROL FIRST LEVEL SPANISH FELLOW FOR GENERALLY THAT FIRST LEVEL POSITION, WHICH IS A SERGEANT.
AND THE SPANISH CONTROL VARIES SOMETIMES FROM SIX TO 10.
AND THAT'S JUST THE, THE NUMBER OF SUBORDINATES THAT THAT INDIVIDUAL HAS.
NOW, IT DIFFERS AS YOU GO UP THE CHAIN, OF COURSE, BUT JUST BECAUSE IT IS A, A FUNDED AUTHORIZED POSITION DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE CHIEF HAS TO FILL ALL OF THOSE POSITIONS.
SO WHERE I SIT IS, IF I HAVE A VACANT UNIT THAT NEEDS A LIEUTENANT, I DON'T CARE WHO THEY ARE, THE NEXT LIEUTENANT GOES DOWN THE LIST UNTIL WE'VE COMPLETED EACH, UNTIL WE FILL EACH VACANCY.
SO THAT REGARDLESS WHERE THEY SIT, IF IT'S A, IF IT'S A, UH, MY DUTY PERSONNEL, IT'S MY JOB OR MY JOB TO FIND THE
SO I'M NOT SURE IF THIS, IF I'M ASKING THIS, IF I'M ANSWERING THE QUESTION, BUT, SO IF WE HAD SEVERAL UNITS THAT WERE AVAILABLE, WE HAD, UM, THE TWO MAJORS THAT WERE PUT IN
[02:10:01]
THEIR RESIDE RESERVATION ALLOWED US TO GO DOWN TWO SPOTS.I KNOW THERE WAS, UH, DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH THAT THERE WAS SOME ADDITIONAL, UM, INDIVIDUALS GOING TO LEAVE THE DEPARTMENT, UH, THE COMMAND LEVEL.
IF IT DID HAPPEN, UH, WE WOULD'VE WENT BACK AND PICKED UP THE NEXT ONE.
SO, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IN OCTOBER WHEN THE RICKY SCOTT WAS ELIGIBLE TO PROMOTE, ACCORDING TO THE DOCKET, WE'RE LOOKING AT, THERE'S THREE VACANT LIEUTENANT SPOTS.
ARE YOU SAYING THEY WEREN'T FILLED BECAUSE IT WAS A CHOICE? THEY WEREN'T FILLED BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE, I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO PUT HIM OVER, IF THAT'S SWITCHING I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.
THAT THAT'S SPECIFICALLY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, I DIDN'T HAVE A UNIT TO PUT, UM, OR SCOTT OVER.
IF I HAD A UNIT, HE, HE WOULD, HE WOULD'VE BEEN PROMOTED NOW.
SO IS THAT THE REASON HE WASN'T PROMOTED? BECAUSE THERE WASN'T A UNIT, THERE WAS NOT A LIEUTENANT COMMAND LEVEL POSITION AVAIL AVAILABLE.
THERE WAS NOT A UNIT THAT DID HAPPEN.
AND IS THAT WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER? YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT SPAN OF CONTROL.
SO ARE YOU, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE NEEDS TO, UH, WHEN YOU MEAN SPAN OF CONTROL, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A POSITION LEVEL, LIEUTENANT'S POSITION WHERE THAT LIEUTENANT HAS TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SUBORDINATES BENEATH THEM? SO THANKS TO THE, THE INITIAL SPAN OF CONTROL THAT WE SENT OVER TO THE CITY, TO CITY HALL TO CITY MANAGER IS OUR INITIAL SPAN OF CONTROL AT THE FIRST LEVEL IS SIX TO 10.
SO THAT CAN BE, UH, AND I'LL USE, UH, JUST FOR, FOR SIMPLE, WE'LL USE A WATCH, A WATCH A PATROL WATCH HAS MAYBE 200 OR SO, UM, EMPLOYEES AT WHICH THEY MAY HAVE FIVE SERGEANTS, GIVE OR TAKE THE SPAN OF PATROL.
AND EACH WATCH, THERE WAS A DAY'S WATCH AND EVENING WATCH AND IGN NIGHT'S WATCH ALL ARE COMMANDED BY A LIEUTENANT.
SO THOSE WOULD BE THREE LIEUTENANTS.
NOW, UM, DEPENDING ON THE CALL LOAD AND, AND VOLUME, IT, THAT LIEUTENANT ON EVENINGS MAY HAVE A, A LARGER, UH, NUMBER OF SUBORDINATES BECAUSE OF THE CALL LOAD.
SO HISPANIC CONTROL, LIKE AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, VARIES.
UM, IT'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT FROM ASSAULTS.
THEY MAY HAVE TWO SERGEANTS INSTEAD OF SIX OR SEVEN AS PATROL.
SO IT'S GONNA BE, IT'S GONNA VARY BASED ON ASSIGNMENT.
SO THE STAFF CONTROL THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, THAT DETERMINES, I MEAN, LIEUTENANT POSITIONS MAY BE NEEDED, RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND THAT CAN BE MANIPULATED BY THE COMMAND STAFF, RIGHT? THAT WOULD BE BY K, WE GO BY KPMG.
SO THEY CAN CALL THEM, YOU GO BY WHAT THE KPFG STUDY, THAT CITY PAID FIVE, THEY CALL THEM, CALL THEM, YES.
BUT YOU CALL THEM IS, YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT PATROL, RIGHT? THERE'S LOTS OF OTHER AREAS AND DIVISIONS IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
SO SEVERAL, BUT, BUT THE DECISIONS ARE MADE UP ABOUT THE SPAN OF CONTROL TERMINATION.
THOSE ARE MADE BY COMMAND STAFF, CORRECT? RIGHT.
INDICATED IT VARIES BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED FIVE SERGEANTS AND ASSAULTS.
YOU HAVE A, YOU HAVE A BASICALLY A, UH, I THINK SOME ASSAULTS HAS TWO SQUADS.
AND I'LL, I'LL USE MY
I HAVE ONE SERGEANT, ONE LIEUTENANT, AND TWO SERGEANTS ABOVE.
THE SPAN CONTROL FOR THEM ARE, ARE VARY BETWEEN FIVE AND SIX.
SO IT'S GONNA BE, IT'S GOING, IT'S COMING UPON, LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE ASSIGNMENTS AS WELL AS, UM, THE SPAN CONTROL OF THE LOWER, THE LOWER SUBORDINATES, IE POLICE OFFICER, SENIOR CORPORAL.
AND, AND WHO MAKES THOSE SPAN CONTROL DETERMINATIONS? HISPANIC CONTROL OR PERSON OR THE POSITIONS ARE GENERALLY ALREADY THERE.
UM, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, YOU CAN, IT COULD BE THE, THE, UM, DEPUTY CHIEF, IF THEY WANNA CHANGE IT, IF THE CHIEF WANTS TO START A NEW UNIT BY THE HOMELESS OUTREACH TEAM, THEN WE WOULD PULL A NUMBER OUT OF THAT 21 93, 21 94 BOARD AND WE WOULD CREATE A, THE HOT TEAM.
AND WITH THAT, WITH THE HOMELESS OUTREACH TEAM, IT GENERALLY HAS TWO SERGEANTS AND NONE OF THAT SERGEANT, YOU'LL HAVE SPARE
[02:15:01]
CONTROL OF OFFICERS, WHICH VARIES FROM SIX TO 10.UM, IF THERE WAS, UH, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR MEDIUM RACING TASK FORCE AND IT REQUIREMENTS OF, UM, IT WOULD REQUIRE A, A WORKUP OR A UNIT, THEN WE COULD USE THOSE FUNDED, UH, POSITION TO CREATE THAT, THAT UNIT.
AND SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT AT THE TIME IN OCTOBER, UM, THE DEPARTMENT HAD FUNDED AUTHORIZED POSITIONS AND THE DEPARTMENT WANTED TO CREATE A NEW UNIT OR CHANGE SPAN AND PATROL OUR DEPARTMENT COULD HAVE FILLED THESE FUNDED AUTHORIZED POSITIONS THAT LIEUTENANT AND SO FORTH, THEY CHOSE TO DO SO BASED OFF OF THEIR DISCRETION.
IS THAT RIGHT? EXCEPT THE CHIEF'S DISCRETION, WHETHER OR NOT HE, HE HAS THE AUTONOMY TO CREATE A UNIT OR, UM, ADD TO A UNIT.
YES, THAT IS AT THE CHIEF'S CHIEF POLICE SUSPECT.
AND UNDER CHIEF KAMA, UM, WE HAD TWO THAT WE KNOW KNOW OF SENIOR CORPORALS THAT WERE, THAT WERE TESTED AND WERE GOING TO PROMOTE TO SERGEANT AND THEY WERE BOTH TOLD BY DPD PERSONNEL THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE PROMOTING UNLESS THEY GOT OFF OF THEIR LIGHT DUTY RESTRICTION.
DO YOU RECALL THAT WE DISCUSSED THIS WHEN WE MET WITH CHIEF DARWIN? YES.
AND I THINK IT WAS, THEY WERE CALLED, IT WAS THAT THEY WEREN'T GONNA GET PROMOTED, I BELIEVE DISCUSS WAS THE, EXCUSE ME, THAT THE REFERENCE WAS REGARDING THE CENTRAL FUNCTION THEY CAN DO, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE IT, BUT THE CENTRAL FUNCTIONS IS BASICALLY JOB DUTIES OF WHAT THEY CAN DO IN AND OUTTA PATROL.
THAT WAS WHAT IT WASN'T THAT THEY WEREN'T GONNA GET PROMOTED, WAS CONVEYED TO DUE TO ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS THAT THEY SIGNED THEY CAN COMPLETE.
BUT I THINK THAT THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE CONFUSION HERE.
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT BOTH OF THESE SENIOR CORPORALS WERE TOLD DIRECTLY THAT YOU ARE ON LIGHT DUTY, YOU WILL NOT PROMOTE UNLESS YOU CAN GET CLEARED OFF FLAT DUTY.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YEAH, I UNDERSTAND YOUR, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE TOLD.
IS THAT, IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING TESTIFY? WELL, I ASK YOU ASK QUESTION.
CAN I FINISH? SO IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE TOLD, IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? THAT'S NOT MY UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE I, THERE WAS A CONVERSATION AND I WASN'T THERE.
UM, I KNOW THEY SPOKE WITH RIC AND I DON'T KNOW, I THINK SHE'S ALREADY TESTIFIED.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT'S SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEY'RE TOLD I CANNOT TESTIFY TO.
BUT I DO KNOW THAT WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE PACKETS AS IT COMES UP TO US, THERE WAS A QUESTION AS TO COULD THEY, UH, IT WAS TWOFOLD.
COULD THEY KEEP THE CENTRAL FUNCTIONS, UM, THAT THEY SIGNED FOR? AND IF YES, WHAT I'M, I'VE GOT THE LIST OF, OF LIMITED LIGHT DUTY MODIFICATION, NON OPERATIONAL.
I DON'T ALWAYS KNOW WHAT EVERYBODY, SO I HAVE TO MAKE SURE IF THEY ARE UP FOR PROMOTION, I HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAVE A PLACE FOR THEM.
NOW IF, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY TOLD 'EM THAT THEY WEREN'T GONNA GET PROMOTED, I CAN'T SAY THAT.
I CAN TELL YOU WHAT THE CONVERSATION WE HAD AGO.
CHIEF, IF YOU KNOW, WHY WAS RICKY SCOTT NOT PROMOTED? WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE POSITION, BUT THERE WAS NO MORE PROMOTIONAL POSITION FOR LIEUTENANTS AVAILABLE AT THAT.
UH, AND WHEN I SAY THAT I DID NOT HAVE A UNIT THAT WAS, THAT NEEDED A LIEUTENANT.
IF THERE WAS, YOU WOULD'VE BEEN.
CHIEF, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UH, THE TWO, UH, INDIVIDUALS, JACOB ALANI AND CECIL CHAMBERS WERE PROMOTED TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT IN OCTOBER, 2025.
AND YOU MENTIONED THAT TWO MAJORS HAVE SUBMITTED THAT WERE TALKING PAPERS.
THOSE MAJOR, THOSE MAJORS HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THOSE PAPERS.
[02:20:01]
A UNIT AVAILABLE FOR THE CODE? NO, SIR.BRIAN, HE HAD WALKED OUT THE DOOR.
WELL, I'LL, I'LL ASK THE QUESTION FIRST.
WE HAVE TO GO, DOCTOR, AFTER THIS WAS EXPIRED ON OCTOBER 12TH, 2025, DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY WHEN NEXT PROMOTION OCCUR ON, ON THE NEXT YEAR? ANYBODY ELSE KNOW SPECIFIC DATE? BUT I DON'T THINK ANY TESTS FOR THE REMAIN OF.
SO EVEN AFTER THAT, THIS EXPIRED IN OCTOBER, IT WASN'T UNTIL MONTHS LATER THAT ANYBODY WAS PROMOTED TO THE TAX? CORRECT.
AND WHY WERE THOSE PE YOU KNOW, MONTHS LATER I'LL REPRESENTED THE CITY EXHIBIT SIX I'LL REPRESENTED IN FEBRUARY, 2026.
WHY WERE THOSE THERE WERE, UM, LIKE FIVE, THAT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT.
SO WHY WERE THOSE FIVE PEOPLE PROMOTED IN FEBRUARY AT THAT TIME? IS THAT WOULD PROB WE INITIALLY PROBABLY HAD SOME THAT RETIRED, SOME NOT RESIGNED, SOME THAT UNFORTUNATELY COULD HAVE BEEN TERMINATED.
UM, UH, AND THEN SOME COULD HAVE BEEN PROMOTED TO THE NEXT RANK OF MAJOR, WHICH WOULD'VE LEFT THE VACANCY.
SO YOU HAD UNITS AVAILABLE TO PUT THESE FUNDS AT THAT TIME? OKAY.
IN OCTOBER, 2025, WAS THERE A UNIT AVAILABLE FOR MR. SCOTT'S
JUST TO BE CLEAR, UH, MR. SNYDER ASKED YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.
DID YOU EVER TELL ANYBODY ON YOUR STAFF THAT ANYBODY WOULD NOT BE PROMOTED BECAUSE OF DISABILITY? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AND I'M JUST ASKING VERY DIRECTLY THE QUESTION HERE BEFORE THE BOARD IS VERY NARROW.
THE QUESTION BEFORE THE BOARD IS, DID MR. MISS SERGEANT SCOTT NOT PROMOTE TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT BECAUSE OF DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF A DISABILITY? WAS HE NOT PROMOTED BECAUSE OF DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY? DID YOU EXPLAIN THAT? SO WE HAVE DECIDED IN WITH NOT JUST THE COMMAND STAFF, IT WAS A COMMAND STAFF WHEN I WAS CHIEF OF STAFF, CHIEF
SO, UH, AN AGREEMENT WITH NEGOTIATIONS WE SIGNED TO HAVE THAT MORE FREE.
SO WE'RE GOING TO, AND LEMME GO BACK AND HE HAS AN AUTONOMY TO EXTEND THIS, IF SO, CHOSE, SO CHOSE, BUT THE AGREEMENT WAS TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO OUR RANK FILE TEST MORE OFTEN.
SO WITH THAT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE LESS LIKELY OF CLEARING OUT A WHOLE LIST LIKE WE WOULD NORMALLY DO.
SO IF WE DON'T SCORE SCORE HIGH ENOUGH, IE THE TOP 10 OR 15, SOMETIMES 20, 25, YOU PROBABLY WILL HAVE TO TAKE ACROSS EXAM BECAUSE CIVIL SERVICE RULES TO REQUIRE THAT ARE, UM, SUPERVISORY LISTS ARE ONLY, UM, VALID FOR 18 MONTHS UNLESS THE GVA POLICE EXTENDS IT.
SO WE'RE HAVING, UM, TESTS MORE ON THAN, THAN WE DID WHEN I WAS
AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE, WE GET WHICH CHIEF THAT I'M SORRY, CHIEF, GO AHEAD.
OH, I'M SORRY IF, IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA ALWAYS ASK FOR SOME OF THIS AND IT SOUNDS HORRIBLE, BUT, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE SO THAT'S NOT GONNA GET PROMOTED.
AND IT'S STEVE, I'LL BE HONEST WITH, UM, BUT WE, THAT LIST EXPIRES.
WE HAVE TO MOVE TO THE NEXT LIST BECAUSE THAT'S, AND THAT'S THE SHEET CHIEF.
UH, UH, WE LOOKED AT IT EARLIER, IT'S, IT'S PAGE 16 OF YOUR TAB, BUT WE LOOKED AT THE, THE LIEUTENANT LIST THAT MR. SCOTT WAS EXPIRED FROM OCTOBER MM-HMM
AND YOU AGREE THAT THIS LIST, THE EXAM OCCURRED IN JANUARY OF 2024, AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WAS A
SO THIS LIST WAS ACTIVE FOR AT LEAST 18 WEEKS, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE, THE TIME WAS NOT SHORT? NO.
SO FOR THIS LIST, WE MENTIONED THAT MR. SK WAS 28, OR EXCUSE ME, 29 AND IT LOOKS LIKE CECIL CHAMBERS WAS THE LAST PERSON WAS 27.
SO THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 27 7 LIEUTENANTS PROMOTED DURING THAT 18.
THAT'S, IS THAT ABOUT A NORMAL AMOUNT OR IS THAT A ALLOWED OR IT IT VARIES.
I MEAN, NOT BEEN ON THE DEPARTMENT 29 YEARS.
[02:25:01]
SEEN WHERE THE BILL LIVES, THEY'VE ONLY GOTTEN TWO OR THREE AND THEN THERE SOME OF THEM THEY'VE GOTTEN 50.WE'RE A MUCH YOUNGER DEPARTMENT NOW, SO IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT THE INDIVIDUALS ON OUR TABLE, THE, THE TEST, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET UP TO THE LIEUTENANT RANK THAT YOU SCORE FAIRLY HIGH BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S WE'RE YOUNG TO TAKE THEM.
AND SERGEANT SCOTT IS HELPED SIT THE LIEUTENANT, CORRECT? ABSOLUTELY.
JUST TO CLARIFY, AND THE BOARD HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS EARLIER.
DO YOU RECALL WE WERE LOOKING AT THE, THE, UH, WHAT WAS CALLED THE STRENGTH FORCE.
WHAT WAS THE, THE STRENGTH REPORT.
AND WE LOOKED AT THAT ONE UNIT THAT HAD ABOUT 642 POSITIONS THAT NONE OF THEM WOULD FILLED.
AND THAT INCLUDED SIX LIEUTENANT POSITIONS THAT DID, DOES THE CREATION OF THOSE POSITIONS REQUIRE THAT THE CHIEF MAKE THOSE PROMOTIONS AT THE TIME? NO.
WHY IS THAT? LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE DON'T HAVE A, UH, WATCH OR, OR A UNIT FOR, UH, THE LIEUTENANT TO COMMAND THAT.
WE JUST, WE JUST DON'T PROMOTE TO PROMOTE, UH, WE DON'T BACKFILL UNLESS WE HAVE A LETTER OF RESIGNATION FROM THE MAJORS OR ABOVE.
SO I, WE HAVE SOME POSITIONS AND WE'RE LOOKING AT BUDGET WISE.
SO WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO PROMOTE RESPONSIBILITY.
AND IF I CAN'T REITERATE ENOUGH, IF THERE WAS A POSITION AVAILABLE, HE WOULD IF THERE WAS A UNIT AVAILABLE AT YOUR TIME IN THE, UH, TIME WITH DPD, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY INSTANCE WHERE PERSON ON THE PROMOTION LIST WAS PASSED OVER TO A DISABILITY OR ALLOWED YOU DECIDE? NO SIR.
MR. SARNER, UH, YOU DISMISSED AS WELL, SIR.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TESTIFYING TODAY.
I KNOW YOU, YOU COME ALWAYS OUTSIDE, BUT DON
THANK YOU CHIEF, WE APPRECIATE ALL YOU DO FOR US.
IS IS KEEP CALLING YOUR WITNESS? YES.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO, OKAY, THANKS.
HOW YOU DOING SIR? DOING FINE.
WE READY TO GO BACK ON THE RECORD? WE NEVER WENT OFF.
WE, WE HAD A SHORT BREAK THEN.
CHIEF, WE DID HAVE YOU GET SWORN IN IF WE COULD PLEASE? ABSOLUTELY.
WOULD YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM OF THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP.
MR. CY IS GONNA START WITH THE QUESTIONS.
UH, SO CHIEF, UM, LET ME, UH, FIRST ASK YOU, WHEN DID YOU START HERE AT CHIEF POLICE? DALLAS?
[02:30:01]
APRIL 23RD.UM, SO WHEN YOU STARTED HERE, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE CITY OF DALLAS HAD A, UH, CALLING IT A LIGHT DUTY PROGRAM, BUT THAT THEY HAD A GENERAL ORDER THAT WAS PART OF THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT RELATED TO OFFICERS THAT WERE PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED TO, UH, PERMANENTLY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING ALL OF THE ESSENTIAL IONS OF A PATROL OFFICER? DID YOU KNOW THAT THAT POLICY WAS HERE WHEN I STARTED DAY ONE? YES.
CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT HOW YOU DISCOVERED THAT THE POLICY EXISTED? AS I'M GOING THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT TRYING TO LEARN THE INS AND OUTS, UH, ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT DOT AND I'S AND CROSS THE T'S, AND HERE I AM 16 MONTHS LATER AND I'M STILL LEARNING NEW THINGS EVERY SINGLE DAY.
I CAME ACROSS A LIST OF LIGHT DUTY PERSONNEL.
PART OF THE LIST WAS THAT OFFICERS THAT WERE INJURED NOT ON THE JOB, WAS ON THE LIST.
AND SO I STARTED QUESTIONING HOW CAN SOMEONE GET INJURED OFF OF THE JOB BUT BE ON LIGHT DUTY OR SOME, IN SOME CASES, UH, IF I RECALL OVER 10 YEARS THAT THEY WEREN'T INJURED ON THE JOB.
SO I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS BECAUSE, UH, PART OF THE RESEARCH THAT THAT I WAS DOING WAS TCO SAID YOU CAN'T HAVE A LICENSE UNDER THAT.
AND THEN WHEN I COMPARED THEM, SOME OF THE OFFICERS HAD QUALIFIED WITH THEIR WEAPON IN NUMEROUS YEARS, WHICH WE CAN'T ALLOW.
SO THEN I STARTED DOING A DEEPER DIVE INTO THE LIST.
IT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO SIT.
AND SO AS I DID A DEEPER DIVE ON THE LIST, I STARTED ASKING MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS MY DUTY LIST TO TRY TO MAKE THE DEPARTMENT MORE EFFICIENT AND RUN AS IT SHOULD.
YOU, YOU SAID IT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING FOR THE DEPARTMENT.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU SAID THAT? BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE IN STANDARDS, WE HAVE TO BE IN, WE HAVE TO OBEY THE T CODE STANDARDS AND UM, WE HAVE TO QUALIFY RIGHT, WHAT THAT'S CALLED THE REQUIREMENTS TO BE A PEACE OFFICER AND TO PULL THE T CODE LICENSE.
SO IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT WHEN YOU SAID NOT THE RIGHT THING FOR THE DEPARTMENT, YOU MEAN? RIGHT.
YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES THAT'S OUT THERE.
HAVE OFFICERS WHO DIDN'T QUALIFY WITH THEIR WEAPONS.
IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? PARDON? WHEN YOU SAY IT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING FOR THE DEPARTMENT, DO YOU MEAN TO HAVE OFFICERS THAT DON'T QUALIFY WITH THEIR WEAPON? THAT'S PART, RIGHT? YEAH.
YOU, YOU NEED, WE NEED TO FOLLOW THE RULES, RIGHT? SO THERE'S RULES IN PLACE AND ONE OF THE RULES IN PLACE IS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO QUALIFY WITH OUR WEAPONS.
BUT, UH, WE BOUGHT THIS LIST, WHICH WE SORT OF MAKING THIS LIST, UH, ME TAKING, THAT WAS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT WE HAD OFFICERS THAT WERE OFFICERS, BUT THEY HAD TO QUALIFY WITH THEIR WEAPONS FOR NUMEROUS YEARS.
WHAT LIST ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? BECAUSE EARLIER YOU MENTIONED THERE'S A LIST OF OCCUPATIONAL INJURIES AND THEN NON-OCCUPATIONAL INJURIES.
IS THERE ANY OTHER LIST YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? NO, IT'S A, IT'S A LIST THAT HAD, UH, LIGHT DUTY OFFICERS OKAY.
THAT WERE INJURED ON DUTY, SOME AND SOME WERE INJURED NON DUTY.
AND, AND, UH, WAS THAT LISTED IN EXISTENCE BEFORE YOU CAME ON BOARD HERE IN DALLAS OR DID YOU, OR WAS THAT DONE FOR YOU? SO YOU GOT, UH, I DON'T THINK YOU, I KNOW IF YOU CAN'T, I, I KNOW YOU STARTED, YOU SAID YOU STARTED APRIL 23RD AND THEN SOMETIME AFTER 23RD WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE OF THIS LIGHT DUTY.
COULD YOU BEGIN? YOU DUNNO EXACTLY WAS, OKAY.
SO, UM, YOU, DO YOU RECALL, UM, MEETING WITH RICKY SCOTT IN MEETING THE, THE FIRST GRIEVANCE HEARING THAT WAS IN YOUR OFFICE BEFORE THAT WAS OVER THE COPY THAT WE'RE HERE ABOUT TODAY? YES.
SO IN THE FACTS THERE, YOU KNOW, RICKY SCOTT WAS ON A LIST TO PROMOTE TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT AND THE LIST EXPIRED OCTOBER THE 12TH, 2025.
[02:35:02]
ONE.ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE MEETING WAS THAT HE BELIEVED THERE WERE VACANT POSITIONS IN THE DEPARTMENT FOR THE, FOR THE LIEUTENANT THAT HE COULD HAVE BEEN VOTED INTO.
DO YOU REMEMBER THAT DISCUSSION? I REMEMBER YOU BRINGING THAT UP.
AND SO WERE THERE VACANT POSITIONS FOR LIEUTENANTS THAT WERE AVAILABLE TO HIM TO PROMOTE INTO BEFORE THE LIST EXPIRED? NO.
THERE WAS NO, UM, ALRIGHT, SO THERE'S POSITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN BUDGETED OR PUT ON THE ORG CHART THAT IS NOT ACTIVE, THAT'S NOT NEEDED.
AND AS THE DEPARTMENT GROWS TO UNDERSTAND, THE CITY PUTS THAT THERE SO THAT THE DEPARTMENT GROWS, UH, WE HAVE 'EM THERE TO PROMOTE, BUT AT THE TIME, RIGHT NOW, THERE WAS NO POSITIONS THEN.
AND THEN EVEN NOW, I STILL GET THE QUESTIONS.
OH, WELL THERE'S 12 LIEUTENANT POSITIONS THAT WE PROMOTE BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THIS MAGICAL LIST OR WE HAVE TOO MANY LIEUTENANTS RIGHT NOW AND WE'RE DOING A, A SPAN OF WE'RE WE'RE REEXAMINING RIGHT NOW, HOW MANY SUPERVISORS WE HAVE UNDER, UH, EACH, IN EACH AREA FROM SERGEANTS AND LIEUTENANTS.
AND WE HAVE TOO MANY LIEUTENANTS RIGHT NOW, SO THEY'RE NOT, THOSE POSITIONS ARE ON BOOKS AS WE GROW.
AND ULTIMATELY WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO 4,000 OFFICERS BASED OFF THEIR CROP VIEW, BUT WE'RE NOT THERE.
SO THOSE POSITIONS ARE THERE AS WE GET TO 4,000.
SO IF I WAS TO BUILD 10 TENANTS RIGHT NOW BASED OFF OF THIS LIST, WE LITERALLY WOULD HAVE 10 TENANTS SIT DOWN JUST WITH NO ONE SUPERVISE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, SO BACK, SO I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS IN OCTOBER.
THERE WAS A PROMOTION OF TWO LIEUTENANTS IN OCTOBER THE EIGHTH, CORRECT? I THINK THE PROMOTION CEREMONY WAS A FEW DAYS BEFORE THAT, BUT THEY WERE EFFECTIVELY PROMOTED OCTOBER THE EIGHTH, 2025.
AND THEN THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE THE LIST EXPIRED TO PROMOTE, AND RICKY SCOTT WAS NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST.
SO HE'S NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST DURING THAT TIME.
AND THERE ARE ON THIS STRENGTH REPORT, THERE ARE SEVERAL VACANT LIEUTENANT POSITION.
YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? I, I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
DID YOU NOT HAVE ANY DISCRETION TO CREATE A POSITION BY CREATING NEW UNITS, RESTRUCTURING, UH, TAKING A LOOK AT THAT THERE WERE OTHER NEEDED POSITIONS.
DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCRETION TO PLACE ANOTHER LIEUTENANT IN THE DEPARTMENT? I MEAN, DISCRETION'S A BIG WORD.
YEAH, I'M THE CHIEF OF POLICE, SO I CAN'T, BUT WOULD IT BE THE MOST EFFICIENT THING TO DO FOR THE, FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY? NO, IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN.
DID YOU LOOK AT THAT OR DID YOU JUST DECIDE IT WASN'T EFFICIENT TO DO THAT? OH, WE LOOK AT THE OVERALL COMMAND CHART.
WHEN THERE'S A POSITION THAT'S NEEDED, THEN WE GRAB FROM LIEUTENANT LIST OR WE GRAB FROM THE SERGEANT'S LIST.
AND AT THAT TIME WE HAD NO NEED FOR, UH, LIEUTENANT, OUR SERGEANT, AND THERE WERE MORE PROMOTIONS IN FEBRUARY.
IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WERE SEVERAL LIEUTENANTS, UM, WHO TURN TO TAB, UM, THE BOOK THERE IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR, KEPT NUMBER FOUR.
YOU LOOK AT PAGE BOTTOM RIGHT, PAGE 20.
SO IN FEBRUARY, ON FEBRUARY 3RD, UH, THIS CHIEF'S UPDATE CAME OUT AND YOU SEE THE PROMOTIONS THAT ARE OCCURRING HERE.
DEPUTY DIRECTOR, THAT'S THE CIVILIAN POSITION, RIGHT? YES.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE MAJOR POSITIONS THAT ARE PROMOTED.
YOU GOT THREE MAJOR POSITIONS PROMOTED INTO, AND YOU'VE GOT FIVE LIEUTENANT POSITIONS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND WE'LL TURN TO THE NEXT TAB.
[02:40:01]
THE BOTTOM THERE.THIS IS JUST THE NEXT, VERY NEXT DAY, FEBRUARY 4TH.
SO HE PROMOTED FIVE LIEUTENANTS.
THEN HERE, LOOKS LIKE YOU PROMOTED ANOTHER LIEUTENANT STANDING SIX LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONS.
I, THIS SHEET DOESN'T TELL ME THAT I, I YOU'RE SAYING I PROMOTED SIX MORE LIEUTENANTS THE NEXT DAY? NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE, WE JUST LOOKED AT THE, THE ONE PROMOTIONS FROM FEBRUARY 3RD.
RIGHT? I SEE FIVE NAMES ON HERE.
BUT LOOK, I, I DON'T RECALL IF THEY WERE TRANSFERS OR THERE WERE ACTUAL PROMOTIONS.
WHERE ARE YOU LOOKING AT NOW? IT SAYS PROMOTIONS AND REASSIGNMENTS ON PAGE 20, PAGE 20, PAGE FIVE.
I'M PLEASED TO NOT FOLLOWING PROMOTIONS AND REASSIGNMENTS.
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE PROMOTIONS OR REASSIGNS.
ARE YOU ON TAB FOUR OR TAB FIVE? YOU JUST SKIPPED BACK TO IT.
AND THEN AGAIN, ON YOUR TAB FIVE, WHICH IS PAGE 26, IT SAYS, I'M PLEASED, ANNOUNCE THE FOLLOWING ADDITIONAL MOTIONS AND REASSIGNMENT.
IT DOES SAY PROMOTIONS AND ASSIGNMENT.
DO YOU SEE RIGHT THERE BELOW THAT WHERE IT SAYS PROMOTIONS, THE PROMOTION CEREMONY IS FEBRUARY 19TH.
DO YOU SEE BELOW THAT? IN DARK AND IN BOLD LETTERS WHERE IT SAYS PROMOTIONS? YES.
BELOW PROMOTIONS IT HAS THESE, THESE DIFFERENT POSITION, RIGHT? YOU SEE THAT? YES.
SO GO TO PAGE, SEE ALL THESE PEOPLE LISTED.
YOU'VE GOT, UH, NOTE PAGE ONE MORE.
AND THEN BELOW THAT IT HAS REASSIGNMENT.
AND THEN HERE IT SAYS CURRENT ASSIGNMENT AND NEW ASSIGNMENT.
YOU UNDERSTAND THESE ARE THE REASSIGNMENTS.
ALRIGHT, SO AS I WAS SAYING TO YOU, YOU PROMOTED, UH, BACK UP.
IT'S A WRONG NUMBER ON PAGE 26.
THE FIRST ONE IS A PROMOTION, AND THEN THE SECOND LONGER LIST OF 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 IS ASSIGNED.
SO YOU PROMOTED ON FEBRUARY 3RD, ONE PERSON, I MEAN, SORRY, FIVE PEOPLE TO LIEUTENANT.
AND THEN ON THE NEXT DAY, FEBRUARY 4TH, YOU ANNOUNCED ONE MORNING TO THE LIEUTENANT.
HAPPENED FIFTH FROM WHAT YOU SEE? CORRECT.
SO, UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY EXPLANATION OF WHY THESE POSITIONS, THESE SIX LIEUTENANT POSITIONS WERE AVAILABLE IN EARLY FEBRUARY? THEY WERE NOT AVAILABLE IN, LET'S SAY AROUND MID-OCTOBER.
WELL, THE MEETING OF THE DEPARTMENT, CLEARLY SOMEBODY MOST LIKELY RETIRED, UH, LOOKING AT YOU HAVE THREE MAJORS THAT, UH, WAS PROMOTED SO THAT AUTOMATICALLY IT'S GOING TO MAKE A LIEUTENANT POSITION AVAILABLE.
AND THEN YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE RETENTION OF LIEUTENANTS AND WHO RETIRED AT THAT MOMENT.
AND THEN I REMEMBER THE LAST ONE, UH, VAGUELY REMEMBER SOMEONE PUT IN THEIR RETIREMENT PAPERS, WHICH MADE US PULL UP THAT LAST ONE, WHO CAME THE NEXT DAY.
SO, UH, A LIEUTENANT PUT IN HIS RETIREMENT PAPERS.
SO, SO GETTING BACK TO THE LIGHT DUTY PROGRAM, UH, DEPARTMENT STILL HAS THE, UH, GENERAL WORK, UH, SO HAS THE, WHAT I'M CALLING THE LIGHT DUTY PROGRAM.
AND, UH, UNDER THAT POLICY THERE ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN OFFICERS THAT WERE INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND OFFICERS THAT WERE INJURED NOT IN THE LINE OF DUTY? YES, THERE IS.
THERE IS, UH, I MEAN YOU SAY EXTINCTION.
THERE IS SOME OFFICERS WHO WAS INJURED IN LINE OF DUTY AND SOME OFFICERS WHO WERE NOT INJURED IN LINE OF DUTY ON THAT LIST.
[02:45:01]
THIS, DOES THIS WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE INJURED IN A LINE OF DUTY AFFECT ANYONE'S KNOWLEDGEABILITY FOR THAT PROGRAM? NO.AND SO WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN WE WERE IN YOUR OFFICE, I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN, BUT IT'S BEEN SEVERAL MONTHS AGO WE BROUGHT UP, UH, TWO SENIOR CORPORALS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE PROMOTING TO THE RANKED SERGEANT.
AND THO EACH OF THOSE SENIOR CATES WAS TOLD, UH, THAT THEY WOULD NOT PROMOTE THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE LIGHT DUTY OFFICERS.
YOU REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT THAT WITH ME? I REMEMBER YOU SAYING THAT.
AND DID YOU DIRECT ANY OF YOUR, UH, SUBORDINATES TO NOT PROMOTE THESE OFFICERS THAT WERE LIGHT DUTY OFFICER? NO,
THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK SAYING THAT THEY CAN DO THE FUNCTIONS OF THEIR JOB.
UH, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I NEED TO KNOW 'CAUSE I'M ONLY
YEAH, I WOULD TRY TO CLARIFY THAT.
WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE ASKING YOUR SUBORDINATES ABOUT A LIST, UH, THAT INDICATES THAT THEY CAN DO THE FUNCTIONS OF THEIR JOB MM-HMM
DO YOU MEAN ALL ESSENTIAL JOB FUNCTIONS OR DO YOU MEAN SOME OF THE FUNCTIONS? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? NO, AND I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT WORDING.
RIGHT NOW THERE'S A FORM THAT HAS TO BE FILLED OUT AND THAT YOU CHECK, YES, I CAN DO THE FUNCTIONS OF THE JOB.
BUT THEN WHAT I ALSO LEARNED FROM DPD THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY CHECK THAT THEY CAN BE FULL DUTY AND DO THE FUNCTIONS ON THEIR JOB IN ORDER TO GET PROMOTED, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER, WHICH I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE THAT YOU NEED TO DO YOUR FUNCTIONS AND PEOPLE CHECK IT OFF THAT THEY CAN, BUT THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE TO OR, AND SO FOR ME, I WAS LIKE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS
WELL, AT THE TIME, DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE, THE, THE OFFICERS ARE IN THIS PROGRAM, THEY'RE IN THE PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO DO ALL OF THE ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS OF A POLICE OFFICER BECAUSE OF A DIS DISABILITY.
SO YOU HAVE LIGHT DUTY AND THAT MEANS TO ME THAT IF YOU'RE INJURED, THAT YOU CAN'T DO FULL DUTY.
BUT THERE'S ALSO A SHEET THAT THEY HAVE TO CHECK WHEN THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS SAYING THAT THEY CAN, BUT IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER FROM BECAUSE IF IT WASN'T ALWAYS FOUND, EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT THEY'RE CONFUSING ME THERE.
SO DID SOMEONE, IT'S VERY CONFUSING TO ME ALSO.
DID SOMEONE TELL YOU THAT IT REALLY DON'T MATTER? HUH? DID SOMEONE TELL YOU THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE WE STILL PROMOTE EVERYONE AS, UH, DPD IF THEY WERE ON THAT LIST? YES, SIR.
EVEN THOUGH THEY COULDN'T DO FULL FUNCTION, BUT THEY WERE STILL BEING PROMOTED EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD TO CHECK THE BOX SAYING THAT THEY COULD, EVEN THOUGH THEY COULDN'T.
SO, UH, DID YOU HAVE, DO YOU INTEND AT THIS POINT, WELL, LET ME ASK IT THIS WAY.
DO YOU HAVE THE INTENTION OF, OF TERMINATING THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT? WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THE GENERAL ORDER, THE LIKELY PROGRAM? I OBJECT TO THIS QUESTION AS TO RELEVANCE.
IT'S THE SPECIFIC QUESTION BEFORE THE BOARD'S ABOUT RICKY SCOTT'S DEMOTION IN OCTOBER 20, 20, 24.
WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THAT THIS IS BEING NEGOTIATED WITH THE ATTORNEYS.
AND SO I CANNOT NOT THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE SETTING TO ASK ABOUT.
WELL, I'M GONNA SUSTAIN THAT OBJECTION BECAUSE NUMBER ONE, THE LETTER FROM THE CITY WAS STATED IN MARCH 26TH.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MOTION OCCURRED OCTOBER ON NO LATER THAN OCTOBER 12TH OF 25.
AND AGAIN, THERE MAY BE ISSUES HERE WITH WHAT'S BEING NEGOTIATED, ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE,
[02:50:01]
ET CETERA.SO I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE WITH ANY QUESTION BEFORE US TODAY.
I GUESS, I GUESS I DON'T GET YOUR RESPONSE TO THE OBJECTION, SO THANK YOU CHIEF PASS THE WITNESS.
CHIEF, THE QUESTION FOR THE BOARD IS VERY SPECIFIC SAYING THE DEPARTMENT DISCRIMINATED, UH, ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY AGAINST MR. SCOTT, SERGEANT STYLES BY
BEFORE IN OCTOBER, 2025, WERE YOU EVEN AWARE OF OF SERGEANT SCOTT? I WAS NOT.
DID HE EVER COME ACROSS HER DESK FOR ELIGIBILITY FOR PROMOTION? HE DID.
WAS HE EVER DISCUSSED AS POSSIBLE VEHICLE? NO, SIR.
IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE DEPARTMENT, HAS THERE EVER BEEN ANYBODY PASSED OVER ON THE CIVIL SERVICE LIST ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY? NO EXPERIENCE.
HAS THERE EVER BEEN ANYBODY PASSED OVER ON THIS LIST BECAUSE THEY WERE ON LIGHT DUTY? NO.
THANK YOU FOR YOU FOR THE CITY OF DOUBT.
CHIEF AND CHIEF, DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY.
WE WERE SWORN IN THIS MORNING.
READY? UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, RICKY.
UH, CAN YOU TELL THE BOARD ABOUT YOUR TENURE HERE WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? I AM, UH, RICKY SCOTT, AND I WAS POLICE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY SERGEANT, UM, FOR 24 AND A HALF YEARS.
UH, I'VE SERVED IN VARIOUS CONDITIONS FROM PATROL TO, UH, FAMILY VIOLENCE.
AND MY MOST RECENT, UH, STOP IS DETENTION SERVICES WITH VINCENT JAIL.
AND UM, WHEN DID YOU PROMOTE TO SERGEANT? I PROMOTED TO SERGEANT, UH, IN AUGUST OF 2015.
AND BEFORE YOU PROMOTED TO SERGEANT, YOU HAD TO PROMOTED BEFORE THAT IT TO THE RANK CENTER, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND SO YOUR AMBITION WAS TO PROMOTE AGAIN TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.
SO YOU, UM, ARE A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER? LIGHT DUTY OFFICER? YES, SIR.
IS YOUR, SO YOU ARE BECAUSE OF THE DISABILITY RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING, UH, SOME OF THE ONE OR MORE OF THE FUNCTIONS, SUCH JOB FUNCTIONS OF A POLICE OFFICER, IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT.
AND IS YOUR DISABILITY RELATING TO ON DUTY INJURY? I HAVE TWO, UH, CERTAIN CIRCUM CIRCUMSTANCES.
ONE IS THE ORIGINAL IS AN OFF-DUTY INJURY WHERE I HAD A, UH, KIDNEY, UH, ISSUE AND I ENDED UP HAVING TO GET A TRANSPLANT.
UM, AND THEN THE SECOND INJURY, UH, I HAVE ELBOW AND WRIST INJURY THAT I FAILED ON DUTY.
AND I'M CURRENTLY STILLED IN THAT OCCUPATIONAL INJURY MODE OF INJURY.
SO YOUR PRESIDENT SERGEANT IS WORKING AT THE DETENTION SERVICE? DETENTION SERVICES.
SO YOU TEST, YOU TOOK THE TEST, UH, FOR POLICE OFFICER, SORRY, FOR TO PROMOTE THE SERGEANT? YES.
YOU WENT THROUGH THE CIVIL SERVICE, UH, TESTING PROCESS? I DID.
AND WE'VE SEEN THE LIST SHOWN IT TO THE BOARD.
WHERE YOU, ON THE, ON THE FINAL LIST, YOU CAME OUT 29TH TO PROMOTE THE LIEUTENANT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND THE LIST WAS DUE TO EXPIRE ON OCTOBER 12TH, 2025.
UH, AND YOU BECAME IS TRUE, YOU BECAME CONCERNED, I GUESS AS THE EXPIRATION DATE BECAME NEAR YOU BECOME CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SERVICE? YES, SIR.
SO WHAT TYPE OF CONCERNS WERE YOU, WERE YOU HAVING? SO, UH, WHEN CHIEF OMO JOINED THE DEPARTMENT ON APRIL 23RD, 2025, UH, HE CAME IN AND, UH, THERE WERE RUMORS OUT THERE THAT HE WAS, UH, PUTTING IT IN THE ATMOSPHERE THAT HE DIDN'T CARE FOR T LIFE
[02:55:01]
DUTY PERSONNEL AND THAT HE WAS GONNA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.AND, UH, I WAS CONCERNED 'CAUSE I WAS LOOKING IN THIS EXAM, I CALLED MY ASSOCIATION ONE, MY ASSOCIATION, AND I ASKED MY ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT, I SAID, I'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH THE, UM, INITIAL SENATE, UH, BOARD TO WHERE I WAS GOING TO ACTUALLY POSSIBLY GET PROMOTED.
AND I ASKED HIM, I SAID, WOULD MY PERMANENT LIKELY TO BE STATUS EFFECT ME GETTING PROMOTED TO THE RIGHTS LIEUTENANT? HE SAID, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AND I, I'LL, I'LL TELL YOU A GOOD BIT ABOUT THE, THE PROCESS OF WHAT I BEEN BEFORE THE BOARD.
UH, THAT, THAT PIECE OF PAPER THAT THE CHIEF WAS REFERRING TO, IT WAS, UH, IT WAS, UH, I THINK THE CENTRAL FUNCTION OF A, A LIGHT DUTY, NOT DUTY OF POLICE PERSONNEL.
AND, AND IF YOU CAN DO THE FUNCTION OF THE LIEUTENANT.
SO I CAREFULLY WENT OVER THAT, THAT THING, AND I CHECKED OFF EVERYTHING I COULD, STUFF THAT I COULDN'T DO, I WOULD NOT SIGN OFF ON THAT PART.
AND I ALSO WROTE THAT THEY HAD PAGE LETTER BEFORE I WENT TO THE BOARD AND I EXPLAINED MY SITUATION, WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH AND WHAT I WAS GOING, WHAT I WAS ON.
AND THEY TOLD ME TO STEP OUT THE ROOM AND STEPPED OUT THE ROOM AND THEY SAID, WE'RE READY TO PROCEED.
I DID THE INTERVIEW, I COME BACK, THEY SAID, WE WILL RECOMMEND YOU FOR A PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT.
AT THE TIME CHIEF, UH, IGEL WAS THE INTERNAL CHIEF.
AND SO THAT WAS UNDER CHIEF IGEL AT THAT TIME.
AND SO THEN THE COME ON COMES, COMES ON.
AND THAT'S WHEN I HAD CONCERN.
'CAUSE I HAD HEARD S THAT YOU COME OVER LIKE FROM YOUR LIKE DUTY PERSONNEL.
AND, UH, MY MAJOR AT THE TIME, MAJOR MICHAEL EZ.
HE WAS IN A COMMAND CELL MEETING AND HE JUST PULLED ME TO THE SIDE AND SAID, RICKY SCOTT, I'M GONNA BE HONEST WITH YOU, HE SAID, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PROMOTE YOU TO DIRECT LIEUTENANT.
AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? AT THE TIME, I WAS NUMBER FIVE ON THE LIST.
HE SAID, THEY ARE NOT GONNA PROMOTE YOU TO THE DIRECT LIEUTENANT.
AND I WAS LIKE, WHY, WHAT HAPPENED? THIS LIKE, BECAUSE YOU PERMANENT LIFE.
AND HE GAVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO, UH, CHIEF HERRERA, WHO WAS OVER PERSONNEL AT THE TIME.
AND I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A PERSONAL CONVERSATION WITH HIM.
AND HE WAS LIKE, HEY, WE'RE GOING THAT THE SEA, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
HE SAID, WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TRY ISSUES, BUT IT'S NOT
SO HE, HE, HE, GRASS TO UH, REFERENCE HE SAID, SAID THAT YOU'RE GONNA GET PROMOTED IN THE, OF THIS.
HE SAID, WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL OPTIONS, ALL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE FROM BY DUTY TRUST, NEL.
AND THAT FURTHER CAUSED ME GRIEF BECAUSE I WAS SO CLOSE THAT I NEVER BEEN THIS CLOSE BEFORE.
AND, UH, THEY, THEY WENT THROUGH, UH, SITUATION OF PROMOTING EVERYBODY.
AND THEN I ENDED UP BEING A ONE ON THE LIST.
AND THEN BAM, IT'S LIKE I LOOKED AT THAT STRICT REPORT EVERY DAY AND IT WAS NEGATIVE, WHICH MADE THAT WORK POSITIONS OPEN.
AND I STARED AT LEAST, AND I JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
UM, I, WELL I WAS LIKE, ALL RIGHT, THE 59 HERE, I WAS LIKE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA CALL ME AT THE LAST HOUSE.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.
SO RICKY, ARE YOU SAYING THAT SOMEONE, ONE OF THE HIGH RANKING HOUSE POLICE CHIEFS TOLD YOU IN RELATION TO YOUR, YOUR POTENTIAL PROMOTION THAT THE DEPARTMENT WAS LOOKING FOR OPTIONS FOR LIGHT DUTY PEOPLE? HE, HE SAID THEY WERE LOOKING AT, THESE ARE ALL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE.
HE SAID THEY WERE LOOKING AT OTHER POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND HOW THEY HANDLE PERMANENT LIGHT DUTY AND, AND HOW THEY WERE GOING TO DO IT.
AND THEY WERE LOOKING TO SEE WHAT THEY COULD DO TO CHANGE THEIR, UH, LIGHT PERSONNEL SITUATION.
NOW WE HEARD, UH, LIEUTENANT GLOVER MENTION WHEN YOU WERE, I THINK GIVEN A, A PACKET TOLD TO GO TO ORANGE MASTERS.
WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT? SO I, THE, THE PACKET WAS BACK IN, UH, SEPTEMBER.
I GOT, I GOT THE PACKET TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD, AND THAT WAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO POSSIBLY GET PROMOTED SEPTEMBER, 2025 YES.
AND, UH, SO I WAS ON VACATION IN JULY OF 2020, 25 AND EMAIL SAID THAT, HEY, UH, WE'RE JUST NICE.
IT'S LIKE, WE'RE JUST NICE LIKE THAT.
[03:00:01]
LETTING, YOU KNOW, GET YOUR, GET YOUR SPEECH READY, YOU KNOW ABOUT, IT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN.UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE MANY TIMES, JUST RELAX BASICALLY.
SO WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU WERE, WHEN BEFORE THE BOARD, UM, AND YOU WERE GIVEN THIS PACKET, WHAT'S THAT? WHICH CAME FIRST? THE, WHEN, WHEN YOU HEARD FROM THE CHIEF TELLING YOU WE'RE LOOKING OFF, WAS THAT, WAS THAT STATEMENT FROM THAT CHIEF, WOULD THAT COME AFTER YOU WENT TO THE BOARD? OH, IT CAME AFTER.
I, I THINK, UH, MAJOR DOUS TALKED TO ME BACK IN JUNE OF 2025.
AND HE PULLED ME OUT, SAID SCIENTIST SAID, LOOK, THEY'RE NOT MO TOUCHING ON
SO CHIEF FERRERA TOLD YOU ABOUT THE OPTIONS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING INTO BECAUSE OF YOUR BY DUTY THEN MAJOR DOMINGUEZ TOLD YOU POINT BLANK, THEY'RE NOT PROMOTING YOU CAUSE OF FLIGHT DUTY.
YES, BECAUSE MAJOR DOMINGUEZ TOLD ME THAT HE WAS LIKE, HE S COMING UP HERE TO DO A JAIL TODAY.
I'M GONNA LET YOU WALK HIM OUT.
AND WE TALKED IN THE SOUTH COURT FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND I GAVE HIM MY SAID, HE SAID, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
HE'S LIKE, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
SO THE CHIEF OF REV KNEW WHO I WAS.
SO THEN YOUR LIST EXPIRES AND AT YOUR TOP, IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO THE EXPIRATION DATE, YOU WERE, YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE STRICT REPORT.
I'M LOOKING AT EVERY DAY THE PAPER DONE, EVERYTHING THERE.
THE SPRING REPORT SHOW THERE POSITION YOU FILLED, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.
NOW OBVIOUSLY THE LIST EXPIRED APRIL, UH, OCTOBER THE 12TH OF LAST YEAR.
UH, AND YOU'RE STILL A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER.
I'M STILL FROM OUR LIGHT DUTY.
HAS ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENED TO YOU IN RELATION TO YOUR STATUS AS A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER SINCE NOT BEING PROMOTED? YES.
SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS WHEN, UM, I WENT BEFORE CHIEF CALL BACK IN DECEMBER 1ST, 2025, I WALKED IN, HE WAS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW YOU, I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
I ONLY FOUND OUT TODAY THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO MEET WITH YOU.
AND IT WAS LIKE, YOU REPRESENTED ME.
AND WE WERE TALKING AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PERCEPTION AND LOOKS WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO PROMOTE FROM RELATED TO PERSONNEL, HE SAID, REALITY IS WHAT IT IS.
WE LEFT OUT OF THERE, UNDECIDED STILL, BUT A COUPLE WEEKS LATER I GET A LETTER FROM HIS MAJOR SAYING THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA PROMOTE YOU TO TAKE FUTURE LIEUTENANT TEST.
AND THEN WE FILED ANOTHER GRIEVANCE TO THE NEXT LEVEL, WHICH WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO, AND WE FILED IT TO, TO THE, UH, ASSISTANT CITY, THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, GETTING EVEN INVOLVED TO RESPOND TO OUR COMPLAINT OF DISCRIMINATION.
AND SO MY LAWYER TOOK IT A STEP FURTHER AND HERE I AM TODAY STANDING BEFORE YOU GUYS AFTER REPEATED, AFTER REPEATED, UH, RESCHEDULING CONFLICTS, EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO I WAS ASKING YOU, UH, WHETHER OR NOT THE DEPARTMENT HAS TAKEN ANY SORT OF ADVERSE ACTION OR INDICATED THERE COULD BE ADVERSE ACTION YES.
OR YOU CAUSING YOUR STEPS IS LIKELY.
SO WE TAKE WHAT IS CALLED EVERY TWO YEARS WE TAKE A, UM, DRIVER'S LIST.
SO I WENT WITH TWO OTHER SERGEANTS TO CARE NOW TO PROTECT MY DRIVER'S, PHYSICAL DRIVER'S.
PHYSICAL CONSISTS OF, YOU GO, YOU READ THE CHART TO SEE IF YOUR EYES ARE GOOD, THEY TAKE YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE AND THEY, UH, SEE IF YOU'VE BEEN HERE.
MY EXAMINATION WENT A STEP FURTHER AND IT WAS ONLY AFTER I FILED THE, THE GRIEVANCE WITH THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.
MY, MY, UH, SCRUTINY WAS, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA SIT YOU IN THIS ROOM FOR ALMOST 50 MINUTES.
AND THEN THE DOCTOR CAME IN AND ASKED ME ALL THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, CORRECT OCCUPATIONAL INJURY.
AND SHE DID A FULL BODY PHYSICAL ONLY WHEN IT WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE A DRIVER'S PHYSICAL.
AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT IS THIS? AND THEN I WENT OUTSIDE AND I SAW OTHER TWO SERGEANTS THAT I LOOKED OUT FROM THERE, I SAID, WHAT DID YOUR, UH, YOUR UH, DRIVER'S PHYSICAL CONSIST OF? IT WAS LIKE BLOOD PRESSURE, EYES AND EARS.
I WAS LIKE, SO THEY DIDN'T DO ANY FULL BODY, LIKE NO.
[03:05:01]
AND THEN I HAD ONE WHERE MY NURSE PRACTITIONER FOR MY ON DUTY INTERVIEW, SHE CALLED ME AND SHE SAID, I NEED TO GO TO PARAMOUNT IMMEDIATELY.I SAID, WHY CALL
SO I GO AND COOK THERE NOW, AND THEN I END UP HAVING MAKE HELP SURGERY.
I'M STILL RECOVERING FROM 'EM.
SO RICKY, WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PROMOTED BELIEVE I WASN'T PROMOTED BECAUSE OF MY PERMANENT LIGHT DUTY STATUS OF THE
IN WHICH, IF YOU TOOK AT THE LAST PAGE OF MY DEPOSITION, IT, IT'S THE, UH, THE THING ABOUT THE CITY ATTORNEY SAYING THEY'RE INTENDED ON TERMINATING THE DEPARTMENT BY DUTY SITUATION OR REVAMPING IT.
SO THAT'S THE BOARD YOU? YES, SIR.
I'M ASKING THE BOARD TO PROMOTE ME BASED ON, UH, MY QUALIFICATIONS FOR WELL OCCUPIED.
I'VE SERVED AS AN ACTIVE OFFICER COMMAND FOR OVER A YEAR AND A HALF AT THE JAIL.
SO I DO KNOW HOW TO, YOU KNOW, I LEAD BY EXAMPLE AND I KNOW HOW TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE AND EVEN WHILE I'VE BEEN OUT THESE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, THEY WERE WRITING CHECKS ON ME AND SEND ME CHECKS, ENCOURAGING WORDS, EVERYTHING.
SO I AM LOVED AND I AM NEEDED.
SERGEANT, JUST BRIEFLY, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU MET WITH THE CHIEF, UH, WITH REGARDS TO, I THINK YOU SAID DECEMBER 1ST.
SO THIS WAS, UH, WITH REGARDS TO YOUR GRIEVANCE? CORRECT.
HAD YOU MET WITH HIM BEFORE PRIOR TO THAT AT ALL? NO.
AND OBVIOUSLY THIS WAS AFTER THE, THE LIEUTENANT WAS EXPIRED OCTOBER 12TH, 2025? CORRECT.
DID I ADD SOMETHING IF YOU MIND OR NO? IF IF IT'S FOR CLARITY PURPOSE.
SO I FILED THE INITIAL GRIEVANCE FOR, UH, TO MEET WITH CHIEF CU JEFF FLORIDA.
STATED THAT THERE'S A DISCRIMINATION CASE THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE CHIEF OF POLICE, THAT IT WAS A GRIEVANCE SERGEANT THAT DID NOT WANT TO GIVE MY GRIEVANCES BASED ON DISCRIMINATION.
SO IT DELAYED ME GETTING TO CHIEF COLMAN.
AND YOU WERE STILL ELIGIBLE TO TAKE THE LIEUTENANT'S TESTIMONY ACCORDING TO THE CITY OF DALLAS, BUT ACCORDING TO LETTER, SOUND LIKE I MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO.
WHAT LETTER YOU REFERRING TO THE LETTER ON THE LAST PAGE OF ALL THE DOCUMENTS, HOW'S IT GONNA BEEN A, A LIEUTENANT'S TEST THAT'S TAKEN PLACE SINCE OCTOBER? OBJECTION.
I DON'T SEE THE RELEVANCE TO THE, WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH HIM GETTING PASSED OVER FOR PREVIOUS TESTS, WHETHER OR NOT HE'S TESTING FOR ANOTHER LIEUTENANT'S FILE.
BUT I THINK IT'S RELEVANCE 'CAUSE HE'S ASKING TO BE PROMOTED AND OBVIOUSLY THE EXISTENCE OF A CURRENT LIST NECESSARILY BUMP SOMEBODY ON THAT LIST THAT AGAINST THAT, NO, THAT'S NOT EVEN NECESSARY.
IF YOU WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION, HAS HE TESTED FOR THE PROMOTION, THE LIEUTENANT, SINCE THAT TIME, HAVE YOU TESTED, UH, 10 SINCE OCTOBER? NO, SIR.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.
NORMALLY I SAY DON'T TALK ABOUT, BUT YOU'RE SITTING RIGHT THERE.
WHERE DO I BAR HAVE WITNESS? GOOD.
DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY I'M ABOUT TO GIVE TRUE
[03:10:01]
PEOPLE TO D SO DO THANK YOU.UH, CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? UH, MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER KAUFMAN.
AND CAN YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME? C-O-F-F-M-A-N.
AND WHAT'S YOUR CURRENT POSITION? I AM THE MANAGER OF DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE IN THE TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
AT CERTAIN POINT, WERE YOU A FINANCE DEPARTMENT? YES.
FROM JANUARY OF 2020 THROUGH FEBRUARY OF 2026, I WAS THE SENIOR BUDGET ANALYST FOR THE DALLAS FOR THE DEPARTMENT.
AND WHAT DID THAT, UH, SO BIG PICTURE, IT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR BUDGET DEVELOPMENT AND MONTHLY BUDGET REPORTING.
UM, OBVIOUSLY A KEY COMPONENT OF ANY BUDGET BECAUSE PERSONNEL.
AND SO, UH, WE HAD BOTH CIVILIAN AND SWORN STAFF AND WE HAD TO DO BUDGET PROJECTIONS, UH, FOR BOTH, UM, ACCOUNTING FOR ALL POSITIONS, UM, IN THE DEPARTMENT, FACTORING IN ER INCREASES FOR CIVILIANS, BUDGETING FOR STAFF, AND MARKET INCREASES FOR SWORN AS WELL AS THE VARIOUS SPECIAL PAYS THEY GET.
AND THEN ALSO HIRING ATTRITION AND PROMOTIONS SO THAT WE COULD MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE BUDGET WE PRESENTED TO, UH, THE CITY MANAGER ACCOUNTED FOR EVERY PERSON, EVERY POSITION FOR WHICH WE WERE REQUESTING FUNDING.
UM, I THINK IT'S, UH, TAB, I THINK IT'S TAB TWO.
IT'S GONNA BE ON, ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT, IT'S GONNA SAY PAGE 0 2 7.
IT SHOULD BE
DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT THIS IS? UH, YES.
WHAT IS THIS? THIS IS A STRENGTH REPORT THAT I BELIEVE COMES FROM DPD SYSTEM KNOWN AS IWM, UH, THAT IS USED TO TRACK, UM, POSITIONS, TITLES, AND WHICH UNITS THEY'RE ASSIGNED TO.
UM, THAT SORT OF THING IS, WOULD THIS CAN COURT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD WORK WITH WITH THE BUDGET OFFICE? UM, YES, WE WOULD, WE WOULD UTILIZE IWM POSITION REPORTS EITHER IN THIS FORMAT OR OTHER FORMATS, UM, TO ACCOUNT FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY POSITIONS WE HAD, WHERE THEY WERE ASSIGNED SO THAT WE COULD BUDGET THE DOLLARS IN THE PLACE WHERE WE FELT THEY NEEDED TO BE TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, THIS UNIT HAD FUNDING FOR THIS MANY POSITIONS AND ANOTHER UNIT HAD, YOU KNOW, FUNDING FOR THIS MANY POSITIONS.
CAN I ASK YOU TO TURN TO PAGE ONE SIX AT THE VERY BOTTOM? OKAY.
UH, SO AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE, YOU SEE WHERE IT SAYS OR CODE 2 1 9 3? YES.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE, LIKE, WHAT GENERALLY WHAT IS THE ORG? SO DURING MY TIME WITH, UH, WELL, ALSO AN OR CODE IS A, A UNIT COST CENTER.
SO IN THE BUDGET, UH, DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, UM, EVERY POSITION IS ASSIGNED TO A SPECIFIC UNIT, ORG CODE, COST CENTER, WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL IT.
UM, AND SO ORG 2 1 9 3 WOULD BE A COST CENTER THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH DPE.
UM, SO THAT'S WHAT THE ORG CODE IS IN GENERAL, THAT'S SPECIFIC ORG CODE WAS ONE.
AGAIN, DURING MY TIME WITH GPD, IT WAS USED TO HOUSE A GENERALLY UNFUNDED POSITION.
SO WE KNEW IF WE HAD POSITIONS FOR WHICH THE BUDGET OFFICE HAD NOT ATTACHED FUNDING, BUT WE STILL WANTED TO HOLD ONTO THE POSITION, UH, WE COULD MOVE IT, MOVE TO THAT WORK, UM, OR A SIMILAR ORDER, 2 1 9 4.
AND OUR DPD PERSONNEL TEAM AND BUDGET TEAM KNEW THAT POSITIONS IN THOSE SPECIFIC ORGS WERE NOT TO BE FILLED OR ADVERTISED OR POSTED BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR THOSE PHYSICIANS.
SO 2 1 9 3, UH, WOULD'VE BEEN ONE OF THE UNITS THAT WE HOUSED ON ONE POSITIONS.
SO IN THIS PARTICULAR REPORT, THERE WERE 642 POSITION UNDER 2 1 9 3 642 POSITIONS AUTHORIZED WITH ZERO PEOPLE ACTUALLY SIGNED.
CAN, SO THE BOARD HAS ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT THIS, AND THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN DIFFERENT TESTIMONY FROM, FROM A BUDGET STANDPOINT, WHY ARE YOU CREATING 642 POSITIONS THAT ARE NOT BIG BILL? RIGHT.
SO, UM, LET ME BACK UP AND DESCRIBE WHY, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT THE ISSUE WAS BEFORE THIS NUMBER SHOWED UP.
SO, UM, AT ANY POINT IN TIME IF, UH, CHIEF OR THE COMMAND STAFF, THE
[03:15:01]
A VACANT MAJOR POSITION, THAT WE HAVE TO GO AND FIND A VACANT POSITION SUCH AS A PO, A POLICE OFFICER OR SENIOR CORPORAL, AND WE HAVE TO RECLASSIFY IT INTO A POLICE MAJOR.UM, THE TROUBLE WE RAN INTO IS THAT THE BUDGET FOR GIVING YEAR DIDN'T ACCOUNT FOR THAT POLICE MAJOR.
AND SO WE HAD TO THEN KIND OF STRUGGLE WITH BUDGET OFFICE TO SAY, WE NEED TO CREATE THIS MAJOR POSITION AT THE REQUEST OF THE COMMAND STAFF, WE'RE GOING TO RECLASSIFY A POLICE OFFICER, A VACANT POLICE OFFICER, A TWO-WAY MAJOR, AND THEN WE HAD TO ACCOUNT FOR THE BUDGET VARIANCE BECAUSE WE MAY HAVE HAD FUNDING ATTACHED TO A POLICE OFFICER, BUT NOT A MAJOR.
AND SO OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A DIFFERENCE YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR.
UM, AND THERE WAS ALWAYS A BIT OF A STRUGGLE IN TRYING TO GET BUDGET OFFICE TO SIGN OFF ON WHAT THE CHIEF OF COMMAND STAFF REQUESTED.
UM, SO WE'D HAVE TO JUSTIFY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE FUNDS TO COVER THAT BUDGET VARIANCE.
SO AFTER PROP U WAS PASSED IN 2024, AND WE KNEW THAT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE WE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE, UH, I BELIEVE 4,000 OFFICERS.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T HAVE POSITIONS TO HOLD OR HOUSE, UH, 4,000 OFFICERS.
UH, WE HAD, WE KNEW WE'D HAVE A LOT OF FLEX AND SEATS, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE THE SEATS AND WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T HAVE THE FUNDING.
AND SO AFTER PROPERTY PASSED DURING BUDGET DEVELOPMENT FOR, I GUESS IT WOULD'VE BEEN FOR THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR, UH, WE HAD TO SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT, OKAY, BETWEEN WHAT OUR STRENGTH IS TODAY FROM CHIEF ON DOWN TO POS, HOW MANY OF EACH POSITION DO WE CURRENTLY HAVE FUNDING FOR? IF WE SCALE UP THE STRENGTH FROM, I THINK IT WAS MAYBE 3,200 TO 4,000, WE KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT GONNA BE JUST POLICE OFFICERS.
WE KNOW THAT AS YOU GROW THE FORCE, YOU WOULD NEED TO, UH, INCREASE YOUR SPAN OF CONTROL.
UM, SO KIND OF STANDARD PRACTICE I THINK WAS LIKE FIVE TO ONE OR 10 TO ONE SERGEANTS VERSUS POS AND SENIOR CORPORALS, FIVE TO ONE LIEUTENANTS TO SERGEANTS.
SO IF WE WENT FROM 3,200 TO 4,000, WE COULD KIND OF FIGURE OUT, OKAY, FOR EVERY A HUNDRED OFFICERS THAT WE'RE GONNA ADD, WE NEED SOME PERCENTAGE OF THEM TO BE LIEUTENANTS MAJORS AND PERHAPS SENIOR CORPORALS AND MAYBE A MAJOR OR A DEPUTY CHIEF.
SO WE, WE KIND OF PROJECTED IT OUT SHOWING THE OVERALL STRENGTH INCREASE, BUT THEN ALSO ACCOUNTING FOR THE SPAN CONTROL.
AND SO, UH, DURING BUDGET DEVELOPMENT BUDGET SAID, WE'RE GOING TO PROVIDE YOU THESE EXTRA POSITIONS, THESE PMS, THESE SEATS, AND THEY WERE GONNA JUST MAKE 'EM ALL POLICE OFFICERS.
AND WE SAID, WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THOSE ARE GONNA BE NEEDED FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, OVERSIGHT SUPERVISORY POSITIONS.
AND SO WE WORKED WITH THEM, GAVE, WORKED WITH THEM, GAVE 'EM OUR PROJECTIONS AND SAID, OKAY, UH, THESE POSITIONS THAT YOU'RE GONNA ADD TO D VP'S LIST OF POSITIONS, WE NEED X NUMBER TO BE LIEUTENANTS X NUMBER TO BE SERGEANTS.
UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF WE ADDED SENIOR CORPORALS.
UH, AND THEN THE REST COULD JUST BE POLICE OFFICERS.
AND SO THE BUDGET WAS PROPOSED AND APPROVED WITH THAT ADDITIONAL LIST OF POSITIONS, BUT WE KNEW THAT UNTIL WE HAVE POLICE OFFICERS TO FILL THE POSITIONS, WE DIDN'T NEED TO BUDGET FOR THEM.
BUT THEN THAT WAY WE KNEW THAT WHEN WE GOT TO THAT POINT WHERE WE HAD AN EXTRA A HUNDRED, 200, 300 OFFICERS AND WE NEEDED TO ADD A LIEUTENANT FOR SUPERVISORY PURPOSES, THAT WE'D AT LEAST HAVE A POSITION THAT WAS A LIEUTENANT SO THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND RECLASSIFY POSITIONS, UM, THAT FILLED OUT THE, THE HIERARCHY.
SO THESE POSITIONS, WHEN THE BUDGET WAS APPROVED AND ADOPTED AND EFFECTIVE ON OCTOBER 1ST, I GUESS THAT WOULD'VE BEEN OF 2025.
UM, THE, THE POSITION CLASSIFICATION ACTION FORM, WHICH LISTS ALL THE POSITION CHANGES FOR THE CITY, WHICH SHOW ALL THESE POSITIONS THAT WERE COMING FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS BEING RECLASSIFIED INTO POLICE OFFICERS, SERGEANT LIEUTENANTS.
AND THE MINUTE WE GOT THOSE POSITIONS, WE STUCK A BUNCH OF THEM INTO THIS, UH, UNIT OR CODE 2, 1 9 3, RECOGNIZING THAT THERE WAS NOT YET FUNDING ATTACHED TO THOSE POSITIONS.
AND SO THERE WAS NO EXPECTATION THAT THE POSITIONS THAT WERE THERE WOULD BE FILLED, UM, WITHOUT BUDGET APPROPRIATIONS.
AND MAYBE J JUST EXPLAIN TO ME A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGET, LIKE THESE POSITIONS WERE CREATED AS PART OF THE BUDGET, BUT NOT FUNDED.
LIKE WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SO I LIKE TO THINK OF A POSITION AS LIKE A FRAME OF SEAT, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE LIKE A BACKER OF AN ACTUAL SEAT TENANT.
AND SO IF SOMEBODY TRIES TO SIT IN IT, THEY'LL JUST FALL THROUGH THE FUNDING IS LIKE THE ACTUAL SEAT, RIGHT? IT GIVES YOU SOMEWHERE TO ACTUALLY PUSH SOMEBODY.
SO JUST HAVING A POSITION DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE AUTHORIZED TO FILL IT.
'CAUSE IT MEAN YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY SOMEONE THAT'S GONNA FILL
[03:20:01]
THIS.I MEAN, YOU COULD PUT SOMEONE IN IT, BUT THERE'S NO DOLLARS THAT YOU COULD PAY THEM.
UM, AND SO THE POSITION DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY COME WITH THE FUNDING, UM, AT ANY POINT IN TIME.
AND THIS WAS KIND OF A SPECIAL CASE BECAUSE THE LAST FEW BUDGET CYCLES, UM, THE DIRECTION OF COUNCIL, THEY HAD BEEN SAYING THE DEPARTMENTS, IF YOU HAVE POSITIONS THAT ARE VACANT AND YOU'VE JUST BEEN HANGING ONTO, WE'RE GONNA CUT THOSE.
IF THEY'VE BEEN VACANT FOR 12 MONTHS OR MORE, WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, A BUNCH OF POSITIONS SITTING HERE, YOU KNOW, BEING VACANT.
SO THAT'S KIND OF A SPECIAL CASE, BUT AGAIN, IT'S A PLACEHOLDER FOR FUTURE PEOPLE AND THE DOLLARS WILL COME TO TEACHERS.
AND WHEN YOU SAY OVER FOR FUTURE PEOPLE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIAL EXPANSION OF THE RIGHT.
AS AS AS THE DEPARTMENT HAS STRENGTH THROUGH FROM 3,200 UP TO 4,000.
SO JUST LOOKING AT THIS, YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THIS CODE HERE ON THIS PAGE HAS 37 AUTHORIZED POLICE SERGEANT POSITION.
DOES THAT MEAN THERE WERE 37 OPENINGS THAT SERGEANTS NEEDED TO BE FILLED AT THAT TIME? NO, BECAUSE THE, THE, THE, THE POLICE SERGEANT PHYSICIANS FOR WHICH FUNDING WAS PROVIDED WOULD BE REFLECTED IN SOME OTHER UNITS.
SO LIKE THE, THE PAGE OR THE, THE TOP OF PAGE OR 2 1 9 2, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THAT ONE IS, BUT THAT ONE WITH FUNDED UNIT, IT HAS SOME SERGEANTS, LIEUTENANTS OFFICERS.
AND SO FUNDING THERE WOULD BE DOLLARS ATTACHED TO THOSE SEATS AS OPPOSED TO THE SEATS IN 2193.
AND SIMILARLY ON THIS, DO YOU SEE WHERE THESE LIEUTENANT HAS SIX? YES.
DOES THAT MEAN THERE WERE SIX VOTED POLICE, UH, LIEUTENANT POSITION THAT NEEDED IT TO BE FAILED? NO, NOT IF THEY WERE IN 4 21 93, EVERY FUNDED LIEUTENANT POSITION WOULD BE ASSIGNED TO AN ACTIVE WORK.
I WANNA GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU SAID EARLIER ABOUT LIKE THESE POSITIONS AREN'T POSTED.
WHAT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? UH, IT MEANS, SO LIKE IF THESE WERE CIVILIAN POSITIONS, THESE WOULD NOT BE ONES THAT YOU WOULD SEE ADVERTISED ON HIGHER.
UM, AND SO FOR SWORN, SINCE IT WORKS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, THESE WOULD NOT BE POSITIONS THAT WOULD BE EXPECTED TO BE FILLED THROUGH PROMOTIONS.
SO WHEN YOU SAY SWORN IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, 'CAUSE OF THOSE PROMOTIONS ARE DONE VIA CIVIL SERVICE RISK? CORRECT.
CAN I ASK YOU TO TURN PAGE 1 1 8 1 1 8? YEAH.
AND, OKAY, DID YOU SEE THAT AT THE TOP THERE? THERE'S 1, 2, 1 9 4? YES, THAT IS THE OTHER ORG THAT WE USE TO HOUSE VACANT POSITIONS.
SO WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 2 1 9 3 2 9 4? HISTORICALLY, I THINK WE HAD USED ONE FOR VACANT CIVILIAN POSITIONS AND THE OTHER FOR VACANT, UH, SWORN POSITIONS, I THINK 2 1 9 4 WAS A TYPICALLY VACANT CIVILIAN.
AND THEN IT'S JUST SAW ON THE OTHER PAGE 2 1 9 3 WAS VACANT.
NOT JUST VACANT, BUT UNFUNDED, UH, SWORN POSITIONS.
SO, UM, I'M ACTUALLY KIND OF SURPRISED IF THERE ARE LIEUTENANT POSITIONS IN 2 1 9 4, I WOULD THINK THOSE WOULD BE IN 2 1 9 3.
BUT IT'S A LOT OF POSITIONS A MANAGE, BUT REGARDLESS, 2 1 9 3 2 1 9 4, THERE ARE NO DOLLARS ATTACHED TO THOSE POSITIONS.
AND SO THE SAME QUESTION APPLY IF THERE'S THREE AUTHORIZED POSITIONS IN 2 1 9 4, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE THREE LIEUTENANT POSITIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE BE FILLED, CORRECT? NO.
SO WHO MAINTAINS THE STRENGTH REPORT? UH, THAT'S GONNA BE THE DPD PERSONNEL TEAM.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE INPUT OF THE STRIKE REPORT IF AT TIME? WELL, AT TIMES IN THE PAST, IF WE HAD A VACANT AND UNFUNDED CIVILIAN POSITION, UM, AND WE NEEDED TO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE REQUESTS OF COMMAND STAFF, THEY SAID, WELL, I, I HAVE THIS VACANT SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT IN AN ACTIVE BOARD, BUT WHAT I REALLY NEED IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE SPECIALIST.
THEN WE, THE BUDGET TEAM MIGHT SAY THE, THE PERSONNEL TEAM, WE'RE GONNA FIND FUNDING TO COVER THE GAP BETWEEN THIS LOWER PAY GRADE AND THIS HIGHER PAY GRADE.
AND THEN WE WOULD SWAP THE PMS. OR IF WE WANTED TO RECLASSIFY A POSITION AND WE DIDN'T HAVE FUNDING AVAILABLE, UM, OR A POSITION TO RECLASSIFY, WE MIGHT TAKE, YOU KNOW, TWO FUNDED POSITIONS, GIVE UP THOSE POSITIONS, WHICH WOULD FREE UP THE FUNDING AND THEN ATTACH THAT FUNDING TO A VACANT UNFUNDED POSITION.
SO FOR CIVILIAN POSITIONS, YES, THE BUDGET TEAM WOULD WORK WITH, UH, THE HR PERSONAL TEAM TO MOVE CIVILIAN POSITIONS IN AND OUT AS WE STUFF THE DOLLS AROUND.
BUT FOR, UH, SWORN POSITIONS, UH, WE TYPICALLY DID NOT HAVE ANY INPUT.
IT WAS SIMPLY A MATTER OF WHATEVER THE COMMAND STAFF, UM, NEEDED AT THE TIME.
THOSE POSITIONS WOULD BE GO, YOU KNOW, BE BUDGETED IN THE BUDGET PROCESS AND THEY WOULD BE ACTIVE AND FUNDED AND ANYTHING THAT WASN'T WOULD JUST
[03:25:01]
BE IN THOSE, UM, UNFUNDED WARRANTS.SO YOU DON'T MAINTAIN THE STRICT REPORT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT? NO, WE, WE, WE PROVIDE INPUT FOR CIVILIAN POSITIONS, UH, HISTORICALLY.
UH, BUT, UM, NOW IF WE CAUGHT SOMETHING WHERE THERE WAS A POSITION WE SAW THAT THERE WASN'T FUNDING FOR, WE WOULD COMMUNICATE WITH THEM.
SAY, HEY, YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS CHANGE.
YOU NEED TO MOVE THIS POSITION OUT OF THIS ACTIVE ORG INTO 2193 OR 2194.
BUT THE, THE HR TEAM WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE THE CHANGES IN THE SYSTEM.
AND YOU, YOU DON'T WORK FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT, RIGHT? NOT CURRENTLY, NO.
UH, UP UNTIL, UH, THE LAST DAY WAS FEBRUARY 3RD, BUT WOULD'VE BEEN SIX YEARS, UH, WITH THE DPD PRIOR TO THAT, YOUR LAST DAY WAS FEBRUARY 3RD OF THIS YEAR? THIS YEAR, YES.
AND THEN YOU, DO YOU SO WORK FOR THE CITY NOW? YES.
BUT I, UM, WHEN, WHEN THE, WHEN THE POSITIONS, WHEN THE BIG NUMBER OF POSITIONS WERE ADDED, I WAS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE BUDGET DEVELOPMENT FOR THAT, UM, ADDITION OF POSITIONS.
BUT WITH THE STRENGTH REPORT, DO YOU KNOW WHO, WHO DOES CREATE THE STRENGTH REPORT? UH, AGAIN, IT'S GONNA BE THE DPE HR TEAM.
THEY CREATE THE STRENGTH REPORT, THEY MAINTAIN RECORD KEEPING IN IWM.
UM, AND THEN, LIKE I SAID, FOR CIVILIANS, THE BUDGET TEAM MIGHT HAVE INPUT, UM, BUT FOR SWORN IT'S GONNA COME AT THE DIRECTION OF COMMAND STAFF.
UM, AND SO THEY DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT NUMBER OF EACH RANK THEY NEED AT ANY POINT IN TIME.
UM, AND IF THEY DECIDE THEY WANT TO MOVE, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO ADD A POSITION OR GET RID OF A POSITION, THEY'LL BE THE ONES THAT DIRECT THE HR TEAM.
BUT IT'S, IT COMES DOWN TO SOUND MAINTAINING THE FERENCE I, RANKING CHIEF AT THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD BE A GOOD, GOOD AUTHORITY ON STRENGTH REPORT.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? UM, I BELIEVE THAT THE, THAT, UH, IN THEIR REGULAR WEEKLY, UH, MANAGED STAFF MEETINGS, THEY REVIEW THE STRENGTH, I BELIEVE.
UM, BUT CERTAINLY WITHIN THE BUDGET DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, UM, LIKE I WAS SAYING EARLIER, WE WORKED TO FIGURE OUT HOW MANY OF IT TO RANK WE WOULD NEED IN THE FUTURE AS A STRENGTH THROUGH.
AND SO WE WOULD GET A CURRENT STRENGTH REPORT, PROVIDE THAT TO THE CHIEFS, SAY, DOES THIS LOOK GOOD? WHAT DO YOU WANT? IF THEY SAID YES, THEN WE WOULD WORK WITH BUDGET SAYING, HERE'S OUR STRENGTH, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA BUDGET FOR IT.
BUT IF THEY DECIDED THAT THEY NEEDED TO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S CHIEF, UM, WELL NOW CUOMO, UM, OR AN ASSISTANT EXECUTIVE CHIEF, THEY SAID, I NEED TO ADD A LIEUTENANT.
AND DURING BUDGET DEVELOPMENT WE COULD SEE, DO WE HAVE A VACANT LIEUTENANT THAT'S UNFUNDED? CAN WE BUILD IT INTO THE BUDGET? AND THEN WE WOULD GO FROM THERE.
AND THESE, UH, YOU WERE LOOKING AT THIS ONE BOARD THAT HAS, UH, MR WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBER 642 OPENINGS THERE, AND THE, THE, THE HIGHEST NUMBER IS POLICE OFFICERS, CORRECT? UH, I BELIEVE SO, YES.
DURING THIS TIME IN OCTOBER, DO YOU HAVE ANY OFFICERS WHO WERE IN THE HIRING OR TRAINING PROCESS? UM, AS IN, IN THE ACADEMY OR FIELD TRAINING, EITHER IN THE ACADEMY OR, UH, COULD BE A FIELD TRAINEE THAT HAVEN'T, THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE BUDGET, BUT HAVEN'T BEEN PROMOTED TO THE POLICE OFFICER YET? COULD BE IN THE HUNDREDS.
WHAT, UH, POTENTIALLY LOOKING, YEAH, THESE, UH, THESE NUMBERS, THE, THE BUDGETING NUMBERS YOU KIND OF TALKED ABOUT, THINK SOME OF THE WORDS YOU USED MIGHT BEEN ASSIGNED, BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGETING, THERE'S, AND THE POSITIONS, THERE'S CERTAIN FUNGIBLE ASPECTS TO THIS, ISN'T THERE? ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW, WHAT IT TAKES TO HAVE A PM NUMBER ASSIGNED TO SOMETHING, UH, IN DVD WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE TO COME FROM, UH, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME LEVEL OF APPROVAL FROM THE CHIEF'S OFFICE.
UM, AGAIN, IT KIND OF VARIES WITH WHETHER IT'S CIVILIAN VERSUS SWORN.
UM, BUT TYPICALLY IF THERE'S AN EXISTING SWORN POSITION AND, YOU KNOW, UH, THE CHIEF OR EXECUTIVE CHIEF WANTS TO REASSIGN THIS OR THAT POSITION TO ANOTHER UNIT, UM, THAT'S A SIMPLE MATTER OF THEM CONTACTING HR.
IF IT'S A FUNDED POSITION, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY ADDITIONAL FUNDS, THEN WE IN THE BUDGET TEAM MIGHT NOT SEE IT UNTIL WE'VE RUN A REPORT, SAY, OH, WE HAVE AN EXTRA SENIOR CORPORAL IN THIS UNIT, AND ONE LESS IN THAT UNIT.
UM, BUT THE, THE REASSIGNING OF EXISTING FUNDED POSITIONS BETWEEN UNITS
[03:30:01]
IS AT THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMAND STAFF WITH PM NUMBER THAT'S ASSIGNED TO EACH INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYEE.EACH INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYEE, UH, INHABITS A PM NUMBER.
AND SO IF YOU ARE PROMOTED OR YOU MOVE TO ANOTHER POSITION, YOU WILL THEN BE ASSIGNED TO A DIFFERENT PM NUMBER AND YOUR PREVIOUS PM NUMBER WOULD BE VACANT.
UM, THERE WOULD STILL BE FUNDING ATTACHED TO IT.
IT'S JUST THERE, IT, IT'S NOW AN EMPTY SEAT, BUT THAT HAS FUNDING.
BUT, BUT THE PM NUMBER INDICATES THAT THERE'S AN ACTUAL FUNDED POSITION, CORRECT? ONLY IT, IT, IT IS IN THAT UNIT FOR WHICH THERE'S FUND.
AND SO 21 93, 21 94, THERE ARE NO DOLLARS ATTACHED TO THOSE UNITS, THOSE ORG CENTERS.
SO ANY POSITION THAT WAS IN ONE OF THOSE TWO ORGS WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR USE.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THERE WOULD BE A TM NUMBER IN AN UNFUNDED ORG? UM, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF FUNDING IN THE CURRENT BUDGET YEAR.
UM, IN THE BUDGET DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, LIKE I WAS SAYING, EVERYONE KNEW THAT DPD NEEDED TO HIRE AT SOME POINT THE FUTURE OF 4,000 OFFICERS.
THAT WASN'T GONNA HAPPEN OVERNIGHT TO AVOID THE, YOU KNOW, AD HOC RECLASSIFICATION OF, YOU KNOW, POSITIONS AND HAGGLING OVER DOLLARS, UM, THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED IN THE YEARS.
THE BUDGET AGREED TO JUST BASICALLY CREATE THIS NUMBER OF POSITIONS FOR FUTURE USE.
SO BASICALLY JUST KIND OF SAYING, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE FUNDING FOR THESE POSITIONS IN THE FUTURE, BUT NOW WE'RE JUST GIVING YOU THE PM SO THAT WE CAN HOLD ONTO 'EM, KIND OF KEEP 'EM IN A SAFE SPACE AND WE'LL HAVE 'EM READY.
BUT THERE'S, THERE'S NO PROMISE OF FUNDING FOR ANY OF THESE POSITIONS, REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY.
I MEAN, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN, BUT WE AT LEAST HAVE POSITIONS THAT ARE CLASSIFIED WHAT WE THINK WE WOULD NEED IN THE FUTURE.
UM, THAT, AND THEN IF IT TURNS OUT THAT YES, WE DO NEED THEM, THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO REQUEST FUNDING FOR THEM.
AND FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH, UH, DPD COMMAND STAFF, ARE THEY AWARE OF THEIR FUNDING? YEAH, SO, UM, LIKE FOR PROMOTIONS, UM, USUALLY THERE'D BE, YOU KNOW, USUALLY ONE LARGE ROUND IN THE SMALLER ROUND OF PROMOTIONS EACH FISCAL YEAR AT ANY TIME.
UM, THAT, UH, ROUND OF PROMOTION WAS COMING UP.
UM, WE WOULD GET INFORMATION FROM THE COMMAND STAFF TO SAY, HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO PROMOTE INTO CORPORALS, SERGEANTS, LIEUTENANTS, WHATEVER.
UM, AND THEN WE WOULD DO SOME BUDGET OF CALCULATIONS, UH, BASED ON THAT NUMBER USING KIND OF AVERAGE.
BUT LIKE, IF WE'RE GONNA PROMOTE SOME OFFICERS TO SENIOR CORPORALS, WE KNOW WHAT A SENIOR CORPORAL STARTING PAY IS, WE WOULD TAKE KIND OF THE AVERAGE OF POLICE OFFICERS WHO ARE ELIGIBLE AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE BUDGET VARIANCE.
AND SO WE WOULD GO THROUGH THAT EXERCISE SAYING, HERE'S THE CURRENT STRENGTH, HERE'S WHAT YOU WANT TO BE AFTER PROMOTIONS, WE'D RUN THE BUDGET NUMBERS AND THEN MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS WITHIN WHAT WE HAD KIND OF AS A LINE ITEM FOR PROMOTIONS.
SO WE HAVE A DOLLAR AMOUNT EACH YEAR THAT WE WOULD BAKE INTO THE BUDGET TO FUND PROMOTIONS, AND THEN WE WOULD WORK, WE MANAGED STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER PROMOTION THEY WANTED TO DO DIDN'T EXCEED THAT KIND OF INDIVIDUAL LINEUP.
THANK YOU, MR. PRO, WITNESS? NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
THANK I LEARNED MORE ABOUT POLICE BUDGETING.
HAVE A GOOD DAY TODAY, MR. MARTIN.
BOTH SIDES BREATH OR BOTH EYES CLOSED? UM, LET ME ASK IF YOU BOTH WANT TO HAVE CLOSE THE ARGUMENT.
WOULD FIVE MINUTES EACH BE OKAY? BOTH.
YOU MEAN LIMIT US TO FIVE MINUTES? YES.
LET, LET ME ASK YOU IF, IF WE'RE, WE, UH, MS. MR. SCOTT HAS AN OPTION OF HAVING DELIBERATION, OPEN SESSION OR CLOSED SESSION, JUST DETERMINING, WE NEED TO HAVE A BREAK BEFORE THAT.
SO, UM, DO YOU WANT HAVE THE DELIBERATION OPEN OR CLOSED SESSION? OPEN? OKAY.
DO WE NEED A BREAK FOR FIVE MINUTES? YES.
BE 1:32 PM PM MISS, UH, THE TIME IS 1 48 AND WE ARE BACK ON THE RECORD.
WE, THE BREAK WOULD'VE GO LONGER THAN WE ANTICIPATED.
UH, RYAN WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO BRING SANDWICHES IN
SO WE ARE SERVED WITH CLOSING STATEMENTS.
UH, MR. SCHNEIDER, MAY YOU GO FIRST.
HE SIGNED AGREE TO HALF TO FIVE MINUTES.
UH, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE TO MY CLIENT.
SERGEANT RICKY SCOTT, UH, WROTE, GETTING HERE HAS BEEN
[03:35:01]
DIFFICULT FOR HIM.UH, HE COMPLETED EVERYTHING THAT WAS REQUIRED OF HIM TO PROMOTE TO LIEUTENANT EQUALS NUMBER ONE ON THE LIST WHEN THE LIST EXPIRED IN OCTOBER 12TH, 2025.
WHAT WE'VE SHOWN YOU IS THAT THERE, HE, THERE'S MORE THAN ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO MEET THE PREPONDERANCE STANDARD THAT, THAT HE WAS NOT PROMOTED BECAUSE OF HIS DISABILITY.
THERE IS THIS POLICY WITHIN THE DPD, IT'S A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT THAT THE DPD WILL ACCOMMODATE THOSE OF OFFICERS.
CHIEF KA ALMOST TESTIFIED HE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS POLICY WHEN HE FIRST CAME ON BOARD WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN, IN APRIL OF LAST YEAR.
NOW, IF YOU RECALL THE VERY FIRST WITNESS WE HAD, MS. BE'S ALVAREZ, SHE TESTIFIED ABOUT THE STRENGTH REPORT.
SHE TESTIFIED THAT POSITIONS ON THE STRENGTH REPORT WERE REAL POSITIONS, BUT DIRECTLY ASKED HER, ARE THESE, ARE THESE JUST MADE UP POSITIONS MAKING GHOST FANTOM POSITIONS? NO, THEY'RE ALL REAL POSITIONS, YOU ALL.
AND I, WHEN I ASKED HER ABOUT HER DISCUSSIONS WITH VIEL AND TORRES ABOUT THEM NOT BEING PROMOTED, SHE DIDN'T DENY SAYING WHAT WITH THEY, THEY EVENTUALLY TESTIFIED ABOUT, SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T REMEMBER.
SERGEANT VIEL TESTIFIED THAT SHE WAS TOLD POINT BLANK, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE PROMOTED BECAUSE YOU'RE A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER.
THAT WAS IN THE SUMMER OF LAST YEAR, JULY, MARCH.
TORES TOLD, WAS TOLD THE EXACT SAME THING.
AND THEY, THEY TESTIFIED, THEY WERE TOLD THIS BY VALEZ, WHO IS PART OF THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT IN PERSONNEL.
AND THEY WERE ALSO TOLD THAT BY A MEMBER OF THE COMMAND STAFF, MICHAEL DOMINGUEZ, AND IT WAS A MAJOR AT THE TIME OF ALL THIS OCCURRED.
HE SAID THAT, YEAH, HE WAS TOLD DIRECTLY THAT RICKY SCOTT IS NOT GETTING PROMOTED BECAUSE HE'S LIGHT DUTY.
HE BACKED UP EVERYTHING THAT PHIL AND TORRES SAID.
HE BACKED UP EVERYTHING THAT RICKY SCOTT SAID.
THOMAS GLOVER TESTIFIED HE'S GOT INSIDER KNOWLEDGE AS WELL.
HE'S BEEN INSIDE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HE'S FAMILIAR NOW WITH REPRESENTING COUNCIL POLICE OFFICERS.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE STRENGTH OF REPORT'S REAL, HE UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS HAS BEEN DISCRIMINATION.
HE TESTIFIED ON HOLD ON THAT MARILYN EDWARDS, SHE HASN'T, SHE, SHE WASN'T HERE TO TESTIFY SPECIFICALLY ANYTHING ABOUT RUBY SCOTT, BUT SHE BACKS UP THAT THERE HAS BEEN THIS PATTERN OF DISCRIMINATION WITHIN THE DALLAS.
SHE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY THAT HE'S NOW BEING PUT THROUGH AS A LIGHT DUTY OFFICER THAT'S NEVER BEEN THERE UNDER PREVIOUS CHIEFS.
MONIQUE, ALEX, SHE TOLD, SHE TOLD THE BOARD THAT THOSE POSITIONS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ON THOSE THAT ARE VACANT POSITIONS FOR, SHE SAID THEY'RE AUTHORIZED, THEY'RE FUNDED, AND THEY'RE VACANT.
HER EXPLANATION OF WHY NEEDED PROMOTED WAS BECAUSE, WELL, WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE, DIDN'T WANNA MOVE PEOPLE AROUND.
WE DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS NECESSARY TO MOVE PEOPLE AROUND.
THAT'S THE SAME THING THAT CHIEF CUOMO SAID.
CUOMO NEVER SAID THOSE, THOSE POSITIONS WERE NOT FUNDED.
HE SAID THAT HE, HE AGREED WITH CHIEF ALEX, IF WE WANTED TO PROMOTE SOMEONE, WE COULD MOVE PEOPLE AROUND, CREATED A NEW UNIT, BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO, WE DIDN'T DO IT.
UM, MR. KAUFMAN THEN COMES IN, HE CONTRADICTS THEIR TESTIMONY.
HE SAYS, THOSE ARE NOT FUNDED POSITIONS.
THAT MAKES NO SENSE THAT HE ADMITS THAT HE DOESN'T CREATE THE STRENGTH REPORT.
HE ADMITTED THAT THE COMMAND STAFF IS BETTER SUITED FOR WHAT THE STRENGTH REPORT MEANS.
SO I THINK THE STRENGTH REPORT, THE EVIDENCES, CLEARLY SHOWS THE
THERE WERE SIX OR MORE MAINTENANCE POSITIONS, AND THE MAJOR DOMINGEZ TOLD BE THEY WAS A ACTUALLY ONE POSITION FOR SURE THAT WAS THERE, THAT THEY COULD HAVE PUT RICKY SCOTT IN.
SO THEY DIDN'T PUT HIM IN AND THEY DIDN'T DO IT BECAUSE HE'S DISABLED.
AND THAT'S A VIOLATION OF POLICY AND LAW.
AND THIS GRIEVANCE SHOULD BE UPHELD.
RICKY SCOTT SHOULD BE PROMOTED TO THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT WITH BACK DAY AND BACK SENIORITY.
UH, JUST AS A REMINDER BOARD, THIS IS THE ISSUE IN FRONT OF THE BOARD.
[03:40:01]
THEY DISCUSSED BUDGETING,BUT HERE'S WHAT'S ACTUALLY REPORTED IN THE GRIEVANCE.
MR. RICKY SCOTT ESTABLISHED BY PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THE DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT FAILURE TO PROMOTE HIM FROM THE 2024 LIEUTENANT PROMOTIONAL ELIGIBILITY LIST CONSTITUTE DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF A DISABILITY.
SO THEY HAVE THE BURDEN TO SHOW THE EVIDENCE.
WHAT DOES THE EVIDENCE ACTUALLY SAY? WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY SEE? WELL, WE HAVE THE LIST THAT SHOWED HE WAS 29 ON THAT LIST, AND WE HAVE TESTIMONY THAT SHOWED THAT 27 PEOPLE WERE PROMOTED THAT, UM, DURING THAT PARTICULAR CYCLE, BEFORE THE LIST EXPIRED, THEY DID NOT GET TO EMAIL.
WHAT ELSE DO WE HAVE AT THE CIVIL SERVICE RULES? THEY'RE NOT SAYING THAT THOSE WERE NOT FOLLOWED.
HE HAVE AND SHOWS THAT NOBODY BELOW HIM ON THE LIST WAS PROMOTED.
HE WAS NOT SKIPPED, DIDN'T GO PAST HIM.
IN FACT, THE NEXT ROUND OF PROMOTIONS DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL FOUR MONTHS LATER TO LIEUTENANT FOUR MONTHS AFTER HIS LIST EXPIRED.
HE CLAIMS THAT THE
THEY COULD HAVE PROMOTED SOMEBODY FROM THE NEW LIST THE NEXT DAY.
THEY REALLY HAD A NEED WHO REALLY WAS A UNIT THAT NEEDED LIEUTENANT.
SOMEBODY WOULDN'T HAVE GONE FOUR MONTHS BEFORE ANOTHER PERSON.
THEY BROUGHT UP THE, THE SERGEANTS WITH REGARDS TO, UH, WITH REGARDS TO THEIR PROMO OR THE SENIOR CORPORALS WHO WERE PROMOTED TO SERGEANT.
THEY'RE HALF TRYING TO OFFER EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PERMANENT LIFE DUTY AND WERE PROMOTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CIVIL SERVICE RULES.
SOMEHOW ITS EVIDENCE OF DISCRIMINATION, OF A PATTERN OF DISCRIMINATION.
WHAT DOES THE EVIDENCE ACTUALLY SHOW? WHAT IS THE PATTERN? CHIEF ALEX, CHIEF OMO BOTH TESTIFIED THEY HAVE NEVER SKIPPED SOMEBODY OVER ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY, NEVER SKIPPED SOMEBODY OVER ON THE BASIS OF BEING MY DUTY.
AND IF FELT, HASN'T, HASN'T SHOWN ANYBODY WHO HAS, AND NOT SHOWING ANYBODY LIKE THIS IS THE PATTERN OF DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING SKIPPED OVER.
NOBODY'S EVER BEEN SKIPPED OVER WITH REGARDS TO THE STRENGTH LIST, UH, YOU CERTAINLY HEARD PLENTY OF TESTIMONY FROM, FROM CHIEF ALEX AND MR. KAUFMAN WITH REGARDS TO THOSE POSITIONS WE'RE TRYING TO POINT TO, TO SHOW THAT THEY WERE AVAILABLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FILLED, ARE NOT POSITIONS THAT NEED TO BE FILLED.
ACCORDING CHIEF ALEX, IN ACCORDANCE WITH DEPARTMENTAL NEEDS.
LIEUTENANTS HAVE TO HAVE A UNIT TO SUPERVISE IF THERE IS SELF OPENING UNDER WILL HIM SUPERVISED, BUT NO PROMOTIONS UP MADE OF THAT.
WITH REGARDS TO SOME OF THE OTHER TESTIMONY I THINK THAT YOU'LL CALL FROM MR. GLOVER, MR. DOMINGUEZ, UH, THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF, LIKE, I HEARD THIS GROUP, OR I HEARD, OR SOMEBODY TOLD ME THAT THEY'RE SAYING THAT FIRST OF ALL, BEAT
SHE NEVER SAID THAT SHE WAS ORDERED TO NOT PROMOTE YOU.
AND WITH REGARDS TO THEIR TESTIMONY, I'M LIKE, WELL, I'VE HEARD THIS.
WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT SAID THAT? WHY WEREN'T THEY HERE?
NOBODY'S EVER BEEN SCARED, NOBODY'S EVER BEEN SKIN BECAUSE OF BEING ON MY DUTY AND BECAUSE OF DISABILITY.
AND WITH REGARDS TO, UH, THE MR. DEEZ TESTIMONY, UH, OF AN OPEN POSITION AT THE TIME, HE WAS LIKE, OH, I THINK I LOOKED IT UP.
I REMEMBER MAYBE THERE WAS SOME TRAFFIC, MAYBE S DAY SHIFT
HE SPECIFICALLY SAID IF THERE WAS AN OPEN POSITION, IT WOULD'VE BEEN ON THAT SCREEN.
ONE OF THAT UNIT, IT WOULD SHOW THAT THERE'S TWO LIEUTENANTS, UH, UH, THAT, THAT WERE APPROVED AND ONLY ONE WAS ASSIGNED.
THEY NEVER SHOWED YOU ANYTHING THAT SHOWED ACTUAL EXISTING UNITS AT LIEUTENANT OPENINGS AT THE TIME.
FINALLY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A REFERENDUM ON, ON SERGEANT SCOTT'S ABILITY.
THIS IS JUST A MATTER OF THE CIVIL SERVICE RULES BEING FOLLOWED.
IF HE'S PROMOTED TO LIEUTENANT, HEY, WE DON'T HAVE ANY TESTIMONY THAT THERE'S A UNIT ASSIGNED HERE AT THE TIME, BUT INEVITABLY SOMEBODY ON THE CURRENT, IT'S GONNA GET BOOKED AND THEREFORE WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE RIGHT BACK HERE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW.
WHEN THAT PERSON IS SAYING, THIS IS MY THIRD ONE, IT'S VERY SAD.
IT'S MY THIRD GRIEVANCE WITH REGARDS TO THE, THE LAST PERSON
THERE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMEBODY, FORTUNATELY IN THIS CASE IT WAS SERGEANT SCOTT HOPEFULLY TAKES EXAM AND, AND, AND IS ABLE TO GET PROMOTIONAL TEACHER.
BUT THIS PROMOTION, HIS ABILITY TO BE PROMOTED OCTOBER 12TH, 2025, IS NOT DUE TO DISCRIMINATION IF THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST ON QUESTION.
THANK YOU, MR. MARTIN, I APPRECIATE THAT YOU BOTH DO WITHIN YOUR FIVE MINUTES.
UM, MR. SCOTT HAS OPTED TO HAVE OPEN DE OPEN DELIBERATION ABOUT THIS MATTER AND, UM, I'M GONNA USE MY FROG OVER CHAIR AT THE START, IF I MAY.
I ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS A FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD CASE AND A FAIRLY EASY TO UNDERSTAND PAGE.
AND FIRST OFF, LEMME SAY, MR. SCOTT, I APPRECIATE YOU AND THE, THE SERVICE YOU PROVIDE,
[03:45:01]
IT'S, I'M, I'M GONNA DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS ONE, BUT I DO RESPECT YOU AND YOU'RE A GOOD MAN AND WISH YOU ALL THE BEST.UH, I THINK THE QUESTION IS BOTH PRETTY SIMPLE.
UH, DID DID MR. SCOTT ESTABLISH BY PREPONDERANCE EVIDENCE THAT DOUBT
ON THAT QUESTION, IN ESSENCE WOULD HAVE TO SHOW, SOMEONE, WOULD'VE TO SHOW THAT CHIEF CUOMO AND, AND EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT CHIEF A BASICALLY WERE LYING TO US.
AND, AND THE EVIDENCE, THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS GARNER WHO TALKED ABOUT, I THINK THE WORD WAS PROBABLY TO THE DEPARTMENT AND, AND PEOPLE, WHATEVER MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED WITH MS. UH, PLE PIMPLE, EXCUSE, IF I MISSPELLED THAT, MISPRONOUNCE THAT OR MISS MS. TORRES.
AGAIN, THOSE DON'T PROVIDE EVIDENCE FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO SERGEANT SCOTT.
WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAID, I I DON'T KNOW.
WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO START GOING INTO THEIR SITUATION TO ANALYZE WHO TOLD THEM WHAT, WHEN, WHERE WE HEARD THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY.
IF THIS WERE A CASE INVOLVING, DID THE CITY OF DALLAS HAVE ITS POLICY PRACTICE OR CUSTOM? I THINK THEIR TESTIMONY MAY HAVE SOME RELEVANCE, AND THEN IT'D BE SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION IT, BE SUBJECT TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAID WHAT AND WHERE.
WE'RE NOT HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THEIR SITUATION.
WHERE, WHERE THE QUESTION IS PRETTY SIMPLE THAT MR. SCOTT SHOWED ACROSS THE EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS A VICTIM OF DIS UH, DISABILITY DISCRIMINATION.
AND, AND I BELIEVE THE CHIEF, I BELIEVE CHIEF UH, UH, ALEX AS WELL, THEY SAID THERE WAS NO POSITION TO GO TO.
MAYBE, MAYBE MR. DOMING GOT UP, RIGHT? THERE WAS A POSITION, THEY CERTAINLY LOOKED TRUTHFUL TO ME TODAY WHEN THEY TESTIFIED.
UH, I DON'T MY RECOLLECTION OF, UH, OF FORMER MAJOR, UH, DOMINION TESTIMONY WAS NOT, BUT CLEAR, BUT DISTINCT POSITION YOU COULD HAVE GONE TO AND SOMEHOW IT NECESS FELT IN
THAT WAS MY, THAT WAS NOT MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT HE STATED.
SO TO ME, I I I'M ABOUT NO ON THIS, THAT I THINK IT WAS A PRETTY CLEAR CUT CASE OF NOT MEETING THE BURDEN OF PROOF OF THE BROAD PROMISE OF THE EVIDENCE OF DISABILITY DISCRIMINATION AND THAT, UH, SO THEREFORE, I'M VOTING NO ON THE QUESTION.
WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO NEXT? I HAVE A QUESTION MORE MINUTE.
SO I READ SOMEWHERE IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT THERE IS A TEST THAT IS GIVEN TO DETERMINE IF SOMEONE IS ELIGIBLE TO APPLY PROMOTION, AND ONCE IT'S DETERMINED THAT THEY PASS THE TEST, THEN THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR THE PROMOTION.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WELL, THERE'S A TESTING PROCESS THAT GOES THROUGH AND YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY TO TAKE THE TEST, RIGHT? FOR EXAMPLE, YOU, YOU COULD JUST SAY, I WANNA BE JUST ISN'T CHEAP, RIGHT? YOU HAVE TO ELIGIBLE BY TAKING THAT TEST.
SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT TESTS AND DIFFERENT COMPONENTS AS WELL FROM HAVING AN INTERVIEW.
SOME HAVE A FITNESS, WHATEVER.
I'M NOT SURE, SIR, YOU ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
SO THE NEXT STEP, SO IT IS, I'VE HEARD FOR THE FACT THAT HE WAS, THAT HE PASSED THE TEST, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE LANGUAGES AROUND THAT, THEN HE APPLIED FOR THE PROMOTION, RIGHT? SO IT'S ALREADY BEEN IMPLIED THAT HE'S ELIGIBLE, RIGHT? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? AND NOW HE APPLIES TO GET PROMOTED.
IT'S JUST STEP ONE, STEP TWO, WHEN YOU TAKE THE TEST, THEY COME UP WITH AN ELIGIBILITY LIST.
AND SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST IN THE LINE FOR PROMOTION AS THOSE POSITIONS BECOME AVAILABLE, RIGHT? CORRECT.
SO YOU DON'T, THERE'S AN IMPLICATION THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO APPLY.
THEY APPLY AND THEN YOU DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT HOW, HOW THEY SCORE.
AND SO TEST ELIGIBLE, AND THEN REMEMBER WHO IT WAS THAT WAS TALKING ABOUT, THERE'S A, I THINK IT WAS THE CHIEF TALKING ABOUT A STEP BY STEP PROCESS, IT SOUNDS LIKE CHECK THE BOX, GOT THAT, GOT THAT, GOT THAT.
AND THAT'S WHERE, UM, WHERE HE ENDED UP NUMBER 29 ON THE LIST BECAUSE OF ALL THE BOXES THAT WERE CHECKED.
I DON'T KNOW THE LANGUAGE AROUND IS THE SCORE OF PART OF THE
[03:50:01]
TEST THE FITNESS FOR, IS THERE A FITNESS FOR DUTY TEST OR WAS THIS SCORE JUST STRICTLY BASED ON AN EXAMINATION? WELL, IT WAS CLEARLY, I THINK IT WAS AN EXAMINATION.I, I, SO, SO IT'S, I I, I KNOW SOME, I I I DON'T, WHATEVER THE TESTING WAS THAT YOU COME UP WITH COMMON SCORE OR SCORE AT THE END AND SCORE, YOU GET A RANK.
SO YOU ENDED UP AS NUMBER 29 AND THERE WERE MORE POSITIONS THAN THAT.
BUT THEN SOMEONE WAS SAYING THAT THE POSITION IS JUST KIND OF LIKE ON HOLD.
IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THE MONEY OR IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THE NEED.
AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW THOSE, I WAS TRYING TO LISTEN TO THE BUDGET GUIDE AND I JUST, IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO HAVE THESE POSITIONS EXIST IF THERE WASN'T MONEY FOR IT.
I MEAN, WHY? AND HE SAID WE'RE DOING IT IN PREPARATION FOR WHAT WE MAY NEED IN THE FUTURE.
WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT THAT BUDGET AND THAT NOT I YES, NO, I EXPLAIN THE PROPOSITION YOU HAS PASSED RIGHT, IN 2024, RIGHT.
THE GOAL, THE, THE, THE PROPOSITION THAT WE HAVE THESE 4,000 POLICE OFFICERS, SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT, MR. KAUFMAN'S TESTIMONY WAS THEY, THEY CREATED THOSE, THEY, THEY BUDGETED THOSE POSITIONS.
THEY'RE NOT FUNDED, BUT THEY WANTED TO USE THEM FOR, FOR FUTURE USE.
SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND RECREATE THE NEW POSITIONS AND TRANSFER PEOPLE.
THEY HAVE IT, IT'S A BUDGETING TOOL.
IT'S NOT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE TALKED ABOUT LIKE IT'S SIX LIEUTENANT, THERE AREN'T SIX POSITIONS THAT GO FILL RIGHT NOW THAT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN, UH, AUTHORIZED BY THE, BY THE COUNCIL FOR, FOR BUDGETARY PURPOSES, 600 AND SOME POSITIONS WOULD BE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO FUND AND SAY, WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY.
I MEAN, YOU WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT.
SO, SO THEY'RE PREPARING FOR THE POINT WHERE AS WE INCREASE MY, MY PERCEPTION AS WE INCREASE THE NUMBER OF SWORN PERSONNEL TO GET UP TO THAT 4,000, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND START SHUFFLING, UH, SHUFFLING THINGS AROUND FOR THE POSITION.
WELL, IT, IT DOES JUST BECAUSE THE PROCESS OF THE CITY.
YEAH, BUT I MEAN, THEY'RE ABOUT TO GO INTO BUDGET DISCUSSIONS.
THE TOWN HALL MEETINGS ARE STARTING IN A COUPLE WEEKS AND THEN THE BUDGET WAS GONNA BE PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL IN OCTOBER, AND THEN IT'S GONNA BE APPROVED OR DISAPPROVED.
WE'RE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SETTING UP BUDGETS THAT INCLUDE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS.
NO, THEY, THEY WON'T FUND LIKE THAT.
DID THE VOTERS VOTE ON THAT? WELL, THEY VOTE CONCEPT OF HAVING A POSITION THAT'S NOT, AGAIN, THEY DO THAT AND I'M GONNA HIRE UP TO 4,000.
YOU HAVE 4,000 PEOPLE IN THE SPACE A YEAR OR TWO.
SO THE, THE, THE POSITIONS ARE CREATED FOR AT, AT, AT THE GROWTH.
AND IF EACH YEAR THE DALLAS CITY COUNCIL WILL FUND MORE POSITIONS, AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA FUND 680 AND SOME POSITIONS NEXT YEAR.
BUT I THINK THE, THE VOTERS, AND THIS IS JUST ME PROJECTING THE VOTERS SAID WE WANT 4,000 POLICE OFFICERS.
AND IT'S, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
THERE'S THIS, UH, UH, A SCOPE NOW OF 600, WHATEVER IT IS, RIGHT? SO WHEN THE VOTERS WERE HONED ON THAT PROPOSITION, AND IN PAST, TO ME, THAT IMPLIES THAT THERE'S A SENSE OF URGENCY TO GET THOSE 647 POSITIONS FILLED.
I MEAN, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH CITIZENS POLICE REVIEW BOARD AND A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF THAT DEALS ALL THESE DETAILS.
NOTE THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THE DETAILS, WHICH I'M ASKING THOSE SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
BUT WHEN PEOPLE VOTED FOR THE INCREASE IN POLICE OFFICERS, IT WOULD BE MY ASSUMPTION THAT THEY VOTED THAT, THAT INCLUDE BUDGET, EVEN THOUGH IT'S LIKE, LET'S SAY ONE YEAR.
IT'S JUST NOT PROVEN TO APPROVE THE POSITIONS THAT AREN'T PAID FOR.
NO, THE BUDGETING IS, IS A TOOL TO UTILIZE THE TIME COMES A POSITION, THE FULL DISCRETION, 4,000 WHATEVER, WHATEVER IT WAS THAT THE COUNCIL HAS A BUDGET THAT FUNDS, RIGHT? SO, SO THERE, THERE'S THAT.
THEN ROOM BUDGET, 600, 800 OFFERS A YEAR.
[03:55:01]
UH, ADD TO THE CONVERSATION.UM, YOU KNOW, UH, FIRST OFF, I, I AGREE WITH THE CHAIR.
I THINK THIS IS A PRETTY CLEAR CUT CASE.
UM, IN REGARDS TO PROP UI DON'T THINK THAT'S A CENTRAL CONSIDERATION FOR THIS CASE BEFORE US.
NOW THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS APPROVED TO PUT IN THE, IT WAS A CHARTER AMENDMENT, WHICH IS SORT OF LIKE A GUIDING A, A GUIDEPOST.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A FIRMED BUDGET FOR THE NEXT YEAR OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE DECIDE, I THINK THIS BODY DECIDES EVERY CASE ON ITS MERITS.
UH, BUT WE HAVE SEEN SIMILAR CASES LIKE THIS BEFORE WITH ELIGIBILITY, ELIGIBILITY PROMOTION, AND SOMEONE WAS MIDWAY OR SOMEWHERE ON THAT LIST.
AND IN THAT PROMOTION CYCLE, THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH TO GET AROUND TO EVERYONE.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AND AS, AS THE CITY ATTORNEY STATED, THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE SOMEONE THERE THAT JUST MISSES THAT CUTOFF.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S FRUSTRATING, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY BEEN, I DON'T THINK THERE'S, UH, A PROOF OF, OF, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, WRONGDOING BY THE CITY OR, UM, YOU KNOW, IN REGARDS TO DISABILITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN HERE.
AND SO I DO AGREE WITH THE CHAIR.
I'M A NO ON THIS, AND I THINK THIS IS A, IS A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD DECISION.
I, I THINK WHAT, WHAT, UH, STRIKES ME IS, WAS THERE A NEED? AND BASED ON THE TESTIMONY THAT I'VE HEARD, UH, I, I BELIEVE THAT, UH, IT'S BEEN PROVEN THAT THERE WAS NO, THERE WAS NOT A NEED TO PROMOTE.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, AS THIS ALLUDED TO, UH, MR. SCOTT SITS THERE, UH, BECAUSE THERE'S NO NEED.
AND SO I CONCUR WITH YOU, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN AND I WILL KNOW.
MR. CHAIR, THIS IS BRIDGET MITCHELL.
I HAVE TO ALSO CONCUR WITH YOU.
UH, THERE WAS NO, WELL, FROM THE TESTIMONIES, THERE WAS NO FORM OF DISCRIMINATION, UH, YOU KNOW, DUE TO A DISABILITY, UM, BECAUSE OF THE, THE, UM, TESTIMONIES THAT WERE RECEIVED, EVEN SOME OF THE BEGINNING TESTIMONIES, THOSE PEOPLE WERE PROMOTED AND THEY DID ADMIT THAT THEY DID HAVE CERTAIN TYPES OF DISABILITIES.
AND SO I, I DON'T SEE WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN EVEN COME TO A CONCLUSION THAT THIS WAS JUST TARGETED AT JUST ONE INDIVIDUAL.
SO I HAVE TO ALSO CONCUR WITH YOU, MR. CHAIR.
UM, I WAS CONVINCED WITH THE TWO WITNESSES THAT CAME FORTH THAT ALSO HAD DISABILITIES, BUT WERE PROMOTED BECAUSE THEY, UM, IT ACTUALLY WORKED AGAINST IT.
AND SO WASN'T ABLE TO PROVE TO ME THAT IT WAS DELIBERATELY, UM, OVERLOOKED FOR THE PROMOTION BECAUSE OF DISABILITY.
WHEN WE SAW CASES WHERE PEOPLE WERE PROMOTED WITH DISABILITY, AND, UM, AND IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR CUT THAT THERE WAS NOT A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE THAT THIS WAS STRAIGHT DISABILITY, THAT IT WAS TIMING.
AND THOUGH WE SAW A LOT OF TESTIMONY ON, UM, AND DOCUMENTATION TO SUPPORT THAT THERE WERE OPPORTUNITIES.
AGAIN, THERE WAS NO SHOWN NEED.
AND I THINK IT WAS A TIMING ISSUE, LIKE IT ALWAYS ON THE LIST IN YOUR NEXT IN LINE.
AND THE FOUR MONTHS DELAY ON THE NEXT PROMOTIONAL OPPORTUNITIES HELPED CONVINCE ME OF THAT.
AND I WOULD SAY THAT I GOT MYSELF TANGLED UP WITH THE LOGISTICS AND I KEPT ALL THE QUESTIONS I WAS WRITING DOWN FOR MYSELF HAD TO DO WITH THE MONEY AND THE POSITIONS AVAILABLE AND RIGHT.
SO, AND WHILE I WAS ASKING YOU THESE QUESTIONS, I WAS GOING, WAIT, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT FINANCES, TALKING ABOUT, SO I, I, I WILL CONCUR WITH YOU AS WELL.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
UH, UNLESS THERE'S ANYTHING FURTHER FOR THE DAY, WE CAN DO ANYTHING FURTHER.