* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. TECHNOLOGY. [00:00:02] GOOD MORNING. MORNING. GOOD MORNING. A MEETING OF THE FULL BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS HEREBY CALLED TO ORDER AT 90 AM ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3RD, 2026 HERE AT DALLAS CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS. MY NAME IS DAVE NEWMAN AND I'M HONORED TO SERVE AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. WE HAVE 12 MEMBERS AND, AND ALTERNATE MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE, EITHER ONLINE OR IN PERSON, WHICH EXCEEDS OUR QUORUM REQUIREMENT TODAY, WHICH IS NINE. NINE IS THE NUMBER WE HAVE TO HAVE EITHER ONLINE OR IN PERSON UNDER OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, WHICH IS 75% OF THE 12 MEMBERS APPOINTED FOR A FULL BOARD MEETING, AND THEREFORE A QUORUM IS HEREBY DECLARED PRESENT TO CONDUCT BUSINESS. OUR AGENDA WAS PUBLISHED ON THE BOA AND CITY SECRETARY'S WEBSITE SEVEN DAYS PRIOR TO THIS MEETING ON OCTOBER 27TH, CONSISTENT WITH OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE AND TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND WILL BE RUN CONSISTENT WITH OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE AND ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. PLEASE ASK FOR RECOGNITION TO SPEAK. I WILL DO MY VERY BEST TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE HAS AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF TIME AND OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. WAVE YOUR HAND, GET MY ATTENTION. I'M GONNA ASK MR. SLADE AND MR. GRAHAM TO ASSIST ME IN EYEBALLING MEMBERS THAT ARE HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM. UH, I PREFER INTERACTIVE, SO AS PRESENTATIONS ARE PROCEEDING, UH, DON'T WAIT FOR YOUR QUESTION. GO AHEAD AND RAISE YOUR HAND AND GET MY ATTENTION SO THAT I CAN RECOGNIZE YOU AND GET THE BEST OUT OF THIS. UM, TO THE PUBLIC, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD CREATED BY THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE CODIFIED BY THE DALLAS CITY COUNCIL AND THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE AND ITS BOARD, BOARD'S RULES OF PROCEDURE TO MAKE THE DETERMINATIONS OF A PROPERTY OWNER'S REQUEST FOR ZONING VARIANCES, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, AMORTIZATION OF NON-CONFORMED USES, AND APPEALS OF DECISIONS OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CONCERNING THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE. COMMUNICATION TO AND FROM MEMBERS THEREFORE IS RESTRICTED SOLELY TO OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS SUCH AS TODAY'S MEETING. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS COMPRISED OF 15 MEMBERS. CURRENTLY WE HAVE 12 MEM - 12 MEMBERS APPOINTED AND SIX ALTERNATE MEMBERS. WE HAVE SIX OF SIX ALTERNATE MEMBERS APPOINTED. THE BOARD FURTHER DIVIDES INTO THREE HEARING PANELS BY THE CITY SECRETARY OF FIVE EACH TO ADJUDICATE P - APPEALS OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE ON A MONTHLY BASIS. MEMBERS AND ALTERNATE MEMBERS ARE NOMINATED BY INDIVIDUAL CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS FROM THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND ARE APPROVED BY THE FULL CITY COUNCIL. AND THIS IS SOMETHING I'M GONNA EMPHASIZE ALL DAY TODAY. WE SERVE THE CITY AS A WHOLE, NOT A SPECIFIC COUNCIL DISTRICT. WE SERVE THE CITY AS A WHOLE. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE UNIQUE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS THAT IS APPOINTED BY A COUNCIL MEMBER, BUT THE BODY SERVES THE ENTIRE CITY, NOT A SPECIFIC DISTRICT. SO YOU WILL HEAR ME CAUTION ANYONE REFERENCE MY DISTRICT OR DISTRICT NUMBER TWO, SIX, EIGHT, 10, 12, 18, THERE'S NO DISTRICT 18. UM, TODAY WE SERVE THE CITY AS A WHOLE. UH, WE RECEIVE NO FINANCIAL COMPENSATION FOR OUR VOLUNTEER TIME. OUR FULL BOARD IS CONVENED AT LEAST ANNUALLY AND ADDITIONAL TIMES AS NECESSARY FOR TRAINING, APPROVAL OF OUR ANNUAL REPORT, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, GOALS, RECOMMENDATIONS, RULES, ADOPTION OF HEARING CALENDAR AND POLICY DECISION, DECISIONS CONCERNING THE BOARD AND ITS HEARING PANELS. UH, EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A, AN AGENDA AND, UM, DOCKET A WEEK AGO. AND SO LET ME PREVIEW THAT. UM, WE HAD COFFEE AND REGISTRATION AT 8:30 THIS MORNING. THE MEETING STARTED AT 9:00. UH, IN A MOMENT WE'RE GONNA DO INTRODUCTIONS. THIS IS SOMETHING I LOVE TO DO EVERY YEAR BECAUSE EVERYONE GETS A CHANCE TO SPEAK AND INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. MOST OF YOU HAVE MET EACH OTHER BEFORE, BUT MO - A LOT HAVE NOT. YOU'RE SEATED O - UH, NEXT TO SOMEONE YOU WOULD NOT NORMALLY SIT NEXT TO, AND THAT'S INTENTIONAL BECAUSE I WANT MEMBERS TO, UH, GET TO KNOW OTHER PEOPLE THAT YOU DON'T NORMALLY HAVE HEARING PANELS WITH. UM, THEN WE WILL ENTERTAIN ANY PUBLIC TESTIMONY THAT IS SCHEDULED OR THAT ARE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT ARE HERE. UH, BRIEFLY GO OVER A CHAIRMAN'S REPORT. WE HAVE TWO GUEST SPEAKERS TODAY, THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, EMILY LU'S WITH US, AND THE NEW INSPECTOR GENERAL, PREVIOUSLY INTERIM, BUT NOW RECENTLY APPOINTED INSPECTOR GENERAL, BARON ELIASON WILL BE TALKING ABOUT ETHICS AND CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. UH, THEN WE GO TO BOARD TRAINING. OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS WILL BE LEADING HER TEAM WITH A BUNCH OF OTHERS FROM PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT ON SOME TRAINING. AGAIN, IT'S IN THE AGENDA. AND THEN OUR NEW BOARD ATTORNEY, CAITLIN BUFFET, WILL BE LEADING THE CITY ATTORNEY STAFF ON SEVERAL TRAINING ITEMS. AGAIN, IT'S IN THE AGENDA. UH, WE'LL THEN BREAK FOR LUNCH. AND AGAIN, WE'LL BREAK FOR LUNCH WHEN THERE'S A NATURAL BREAK TIME. I'M HOPING TO DO ALL THESE PRESENTATIONS IN THE MORNING, BREAK FOR LUNCH, AND THEN COME BACK FOR OUR ACTION ITEMS. UH, IF WE GO THROUGH THE TRAINING QUICKER, WE'LL TAKE LUNCH SOONER. UM, THE GOAL IS TO GET US OUT NO LATER THAN 4:0 PM, HOPEFULLY 3:00 [00:05:01] PM. I'M NOT PROMISING THREE, BUT I'M HOPING FOR 3:00 AS OPPOSED TO 4:00. TODAY'S ELECTION DAY AND HOPEFULLY EVERYONE HAS OR WILL VOTE. QUESTIONS ON THE AGENDA? AND AGAIN, I'M GONNA GET, I'M GONNA BE RUBBERNECKING TODAY TO MAKE SURE I SEE EYEBALLS OR HANDS IF ANYONE WANTS TO BE RECOGNIZED TO SPEAK. UM, AND AGAIN, MR. SLADE AND MR. GRAHAM WILL ASSIST ME IN THAT. UM, NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS PUBLIC TESTIMONY. MS. BOARD SECRETARY, UM, A CORRECTION. I APOLOGIZE. I APOLOGIZE. INTRODUCTIONS. [III. Introduction (Members and Alternate Members)] SO, UM, IN THE, IN THE AGENDA PACKAGE, YOU HAVE A, A ROSTER THAT WAS PROVIDED, AND THIS ROSTER, IT'S ON PAGE FOUR OF THE, OF THE AGENDA PACKET, UM, LISTS THE BOARD MEMBERS AS THEY'RE ASSIGNED TO PANELS. AND AGAIN, THE, THE, THE PROCEDURE IN THE CITY IS THAT, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL APPOINTS A MEMBER AND THEN AFTER THAT MEMBER'S APPOINTED, THE CITY SECRETARY, UH, A- APPOINTS THAT PERSON TO ONE OF OUR THREE HEARING PANELS, A, B, OR C. SO FOR, FOR PUR - SO I WANTED TO GIVE YOU THIS, THIS BROAD LIST SO THAT YOU HAVE THAT IN YOUR POSSESSION. UM, BUT WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO FIRST IS DO INTRODUCTIONS. AND I'LL START OFF WITH INTRODUCTION, WITH MY INTRODUCTION, KINDA AS A, AS A MODEL FOR THAT. UM, PLEASE DO NOT REFERENCE THE DISTRICT THAT YOU LIVE IN. PLEASE DO REFERENCE MAYBE THE NEIGHBORHOOD YOU LIVE IN OR THE STREET INTER- INTERSECTION OR THE PART OF TOWN. GIVE US A BRIEF, UH, BRIEF BIO, BIO. WE HAVE 15 PEOPLE, REMEMBER, AND THEN WE'LL CONTINUE DOWN THE ROAD. SO I'LL START OFF. UH, MY NAME'S DAVE NEWMAN. UH, I SERVE AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER FOR PANEL A. I'VE BEEN IN DALLAS 45 YEARS. OH MY GOODNESS. UM, I AM SEMI-RETIRED. I DON'T LIKE USING THE R WORD, BUT I'M SEMI-RETIRED. UH, I'M BEGINNING MY SIXTH YEAR AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I'M MAYOR JOHNSON'S APPOINTEE. 20 YEARS AGO, I MET SOMEONE WHO'S IN THE AUDIENCE AND IS SPEAKING TODAY WHEN I WAS APPOINTED AN ALTERNATE MEMBER TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND TWO, TWO YEARS DOWN THEN, AND THEN TWO YEARS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEN RAN FOR AND WAS ELECTED TO TWO TERMS OF THE CITY COUNCIL. UH, I'M A FINANCIAL SERVICES PREVIOUS EXECUTIVE, AND THEN MY WIFE AND I OWNED AND OPERATED A WOMEN'S APPAREL MANUFACTURING COMPANY FOR 24 YEARS. UM, THAT'S MY INTRODUCTION. I LIVE IN NORTH DALLAS, PRESTON FOREST AREA, WHICH IS PRESTON HOLLOW, THE NORTH END OF PRESTON HOLLOW. UM, SO WE'RE GONNA START WITH MR. HOPKOVITZ. THANK YOU, DAVE. MICHAEL HOPKOVITZ. UH, I LIVE IN THE - CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. I LIVE IN THE LITTLE SECTION OF DALLAS THAT IS IN DENTON COUNTY. UM, I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD SINCE, UH, 2023, SO I'M IN MY SECOND TERM NOW. UH, ENJOYING IT VERY MUCH. I AM RETIRED FROM BEING AN ACTUARY FOR 40 OR SO YEARS, AND I'M CURRENTLY, UH, A PART-TIME ELECTRICITY BROKER. SO, UH, YOU'RE IN, ARE YOU IN DENTON COUNTY OR IN C- COLLIN OR IN DALLAS? I'M DEN- DENTON COUNTY. ALL RIGHT. SO DO YOU ALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE THREE COUNTIES THAT DALLAS IS IN, DALLAS, DENTON, AND COLLIN. SO YOU'RE NORTHWEST? THAT'S CORRECT. I'M IN THE MARSH AND FRANKFURT AREA. THERE YOU GO. MARSH AND FRANKFURT. THANK YOU, MICHAEL. DR. GLOVER. UH, GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS DR. MANUEL GLOVER. UM, I LIVE IN THE TRINITY GROVES AREA, WEST DALLAS. I WAS APPOINTED BY COUNCILWOMAN LAURA CADENA. UH, THIS IS MY TED TEM. UM, I WORK WITH A FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF, UH, DOWNTOWN. THAT'S IT. THANK YOU, DR. GLOVER. AND HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU BEEN AN ALTERNATE MEMBER? UH, SIX. THIS IS SIX. YOUR STARTING SIX, RIGHT? MM. VERY GOOD. MR. SASHINGTON. UM, GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. AND AS, UM, CHAIR NEWMAN STATED, I HOPE EVERYONE, UM, EITHER HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OR WILL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO OUT AND CAST YOUR VOTE TODAY. UM, MY NAME IS ROGER SASHINGTON. I LIVE IN AND, UH, SERVE, UH, THE MOUNTAIN CREEK AREA. UM, THIS YEAR - NOW, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHERE MOUNTAIN CREEK IS. I DO. FAR SOUTHWEST DALLAS. THERE YOU GO. ADJACENT TO WHAT CITIES? UM, UH, I SIT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF DUNCANVILLE, CEDAR HILL, AND GRAND PRAIRIE. THREE CITIES, YOU'RE RIGHT. I FORGOT ONE. I'M SORRY. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, YEAH, UH, A VERY BEAUTIFUL, UM, UH, AND TREASURED AREA OF THE DA - OF THE DALLAS, UM, UH, METROPLEX, SO WE LOVE IT. UM, I'VE BEEN IN DALLAS SINCE 2006, AND I HAVE BEEN SERVING ON THIS BOARD SINCE THE END OF 2018. [00:10:01] SO, UM, UH, I THINK SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE BEEN IN HIGH SCHOOL BY THEN. UM, BUT ANYWAY, UM, UH, UH, FOR WORK, I, UM, I WORK AS A, UM, SUBCONTRACT MANAGER, SO. THANK YOU, MR. SASHINGTON. MR. ROGERS. MORNING, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS CASEY ROGERS. UM, I'M ORIGINALLY FROM SOUTH LAKE, TEXAS. CURRENTLY LIVE IN LAKEWOOD, AREA OF DALLAS. UM, THIS IS MY FIRST YEAR ON THE BOARD. I WAS APPOINTED IN MAY, UM, SO I'M THE NEWBIE ON THE BLOCK. UM, AND MY DAY JOB IS REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT. EXCELLENT. MR. GRAHAM. GOOD MORNING. I'M PARKER GRAHAM. I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD, UH, FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS. I LIVE IN EAST DALLAS IN THE M STREETS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I'M A LAWYER AT A FIRM CALLED CARRINGTON COLEMAN. AND WHAT TYPE OF LAW DO YOU PRACTICE, MR. GRAHAM? SORT OF GENERAL CIVIL LITIGATION. CIVIL LITIGATION. OKAY. MR. SLADE. UH, JARED SLADE. UH, LIVE IN THE GREENWAY PARKS NEIGHBORHOOD OF TOWN. UM, MY STORY ALSO STARTS AS AN ALTERNATE MEMBER, UH, AND MR. LONG HELPED RECRUIT ME, UH, WHEN THERE WAS ANOTHER, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER WHO DID NOT HAVE SOMEONE APPOINTED. SO THAT'S HOW I BECAME, UM, REGULAR APPOINTEE IN 2022. AND SO I'M ON MY THIRD TERM NOW AND FINALLY APPOINTED BY MY HOME DISTRICT. UM, I, UH, LIKE MR. GRAHAM, I'M A TRIAL LAWYER, UM, HANDLE CIVIL LITIGATION AND BUSINESS DISPUTES, AND, UM, SERVE ON PANEL A, OR PANEL C, EXCUSE ME. THANK YOU, MR. SLADE. WE'RE GONNA JUMP OVER STAFF RIGHT NOW. MR. QUINT. DOES THIS WORK? OKAY. GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY. MY NAME'S MIKE QUINT. I AM A 50-YEAR RESIDENT OF DALLAS. SO MANY OF YOU MAY NOT HAVE BEEN BORN WHEN I MOVED TO DALLAS. I LIVE IN THE NORTH DALLAS AREA, ROUGHLY SPRING VALLEY AND PRESTON ROAD. I HAVE JUST COMPLETED MY FIRST YEAR ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I AM IN THE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE WORLD AND HOPE LIKE DAVID WOULD SOON BE IN THE RETIRING MODE. I JUST DON'T USE THAT WORD. MY WIFE SAYS ALL THE TIME, "YOU ARE." I SAID, "I CAN'T SAY THAT, SO I AM SEMI." SO I'M A SEMI, NOT A TRUCK EITHER. THANK YOU, MR. QUINT. MS. PEREZ. GOOD MORNING. UH, MY NAME'S AMELIA S. PEREZ. UH, MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE LIVED IN DALLAS FOR 36 YEARS. UH, I LIVE IN THE HISTORIC ELM THICKET NORTH PARK NEIGHBORHOOD. I AM A FREELANCE WRITER, PHOTOGRAPHER, AND, UH, THIS IS MY FIRST YEAR ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, AND I'M WITH PANEL C WITH MR. SASHINGTON. THANK YOU, MS. PEREZ. MR. FINNEY. GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS ANDREW FINNEY. UM, I DID NOT GROW UP IN DALLAS, BUT I GOT HERE AS FAST AS I COULD 11 YEARS AGO, AND I'M THE PROUD - I WISH I COULD SAY THAT WAS AN ORIGINAL LINE, BUT - ... BUT WE'LL TAKE YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MR. FINNEY. UM, I'M THE FOURTH GENERATION OF MY FAMILY TO LIVE IN OAK CLIFF, SPECIFICALLY WEST OAK CLIFF. IN MY FREE TIME, I AM A NEIGHBORHOOD ADVOCATE. I'M THE FOUNDING PRESIDENT OF ROOTED OAK CLIFF NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. AND, UM, IN MY DAY JOB, I'M, UH, URBAN DESIGNER AND PLANNER. THANK YOU, MR. FINNEY. MS. LAM. YEAH, MY NAME IS SARAH LAM. UM, I MOVED TO DALLAS 11 YEARS AGO AND - LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE. PLEASE. MY NAME IS SA- SARAH LAM. I MOVED TO DALLAS 11 YEARS AGO FROM CALIFORNIA. LIKE MR. FINNEY, I GOT HERE AS FAST AS I COULD. UM, I HAVE ACTUALLY SERVED ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OFF AND ON SINCE 2019, SO A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A SEASONED VETERAN ON THIS PANEL. UM, AND I RESIDE IN THE M STREETS GREENVILLE AVENUE NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU, MS. LAM. OKAY, MR. CAMPBELL, NE - UH, NOT TOO LATE. YOU WERE INTRODUCING OURSELVES WITHOUT REFERENCE TO A DISTRICT NUMBER. S - UH, YOU, WHERE YOU LIVE, HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD, WHAT'S YOUR, UH, PROFESSION, AND THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT. I LIVE IN CO - YOUR NAME. OH, YEAH. STUART CAMPBELL'S THE NAME. PUBLIC, THE PUBLIC IS ABSORBING RIGHT NOW. IS IT NOT ON? CAN YOU HEAR ME? COPY, COPY. YEAH. UH, STUART CAMPBELL. I'M AN ATTORNEY BY TRADE. I AM THE CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER OF THE DALLAS EVICTION ADVOCACY CENTER AND NOW HOUSTON EVICTION ADVOCACY CENTER. I LIVE IN FAR EAST DALLAS, SO RIGHT NEXT TO MESQUITE IN CASA VIEW OAKS. AND I AM, WHAT, 13 MONTHS INTO MY TERM, RIGHT? FIRST TERM? OVER A YEAR. YEAH. SO IS THAT IT? DID I DO WELL? UH, YOU, YOU'RE RIGHT ON. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. AND, AND WE HAVE TWO MEMBERS ONLINE, UH, TODAY, MS. EVANS [00:15:01] AND MS. GARNER. IS MS. GARNER THERE? YES, SIR. MS. GARNER, YOUR T - YOUR TURN. INTRODUCE YOURSELF AGAIN. YES. CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? OKAY. UM, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, MY NAME IS LINDA GARNER. UM, I JUST WANNA PREFACE BY SAYING I REGRET NOT BEING THERE IN PERSON, BUT I, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN UPPER RESPIRATORY INFECTION. I JUST WANNA PROTECT MY COLLEAGUES. UM, I AM, UH, I LIVE IN THE CEDARS NEIGHBORHOOD SINCE 2003. UH, AND I THINK, UM, BESIDES MR. SASHINGTON, UH, WE MAY BE THE ONLY TWO MEMBERS SOUTH OF 30. UH, THE CEDARS NEIGHBORHOOD, OF COURSE, IS THE OLDEST NEIGHBORHOOD IN DALLAS. AND, UM, WENT TO BOOKER T. WASHINGTON HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE, EL CENTRO COLLEGE GRADUATE, UT DALLAS. AND I CURRENTLY WORK, UM, AT THE HOSPITAL THAT SERVES THE CARROLL CLINIC ORTHOPEDIC SUR- SURGERY CENTER, UM, AND RADIOLOGY. AND I'M ALSO A, UM, A PROFESSIONAL FORENSIC INVESTIGATIVE GENETIC GENEALOGIST. SO, AND I'M IN MY FIRST TERM, AND I WAS A, UM, AND I SERVED FOUR TERMS PRIOR ON THE, UH, CITIZEN HOMELESSNESS COMMISSION WITH MY LAST TERM AS CHAIR APPOINTED BY MAYOR JOHNSON. EXCELLENT. THANK YOU, MS. EVANS. EXCUSE ME. THANK YOU, MS. GARNER. MS. EVANS? YES. GOOD MORNING, ALL. I TOO APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING THERE. UM, LIFE GOT VERY CRAZY TODAY. I LIVE IN NORTH DALLAS. UM, I WAS APPOINTED BY OUR WONDERFUL COUNCILPERSON, BILL ROTH. I'M THE PUBLISHER, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER OF CANDYSTIRT.COM. I HOPE YOU ALL READ IT. UM, I HAVE LIVED IN DALLAS FOR 46 YEARS. IT'S REALLY EASY TO FIGURE THIS OUT BECAUSE I CAME HERE WHILE I WAS AT FIRST ENGAGED TO MY HUSBAND AND WE GOT MARRIED, SO IT'S THE SAME... I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR 46 YEARS AND LIVED IN DALLAS FOR 46 YEARS. WE ARE NOW... WE JUST MOVED, AND THANK YOU ALL FOR BEARING WITH ME THROUGH A REALLY, REALLY BRUTAL YEAR. WE DOWNSIZED FROM A, OUR FAMILY HOME INTO A SMALLER HOME, AND WE NOW LIVE IN THE LAKE FOREST AREA OF, I CALL IT DALLAS. IT'S NOT REALLY NORTH DALLAS TO ME UNLESS WE'RE NORTH OF LBJ, AND I'M STILL SOUTH OF LBJ. SO I LOVE THIS WORK, AND I LOVE ALL OF YOU, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR, UM, HAVING THIS ONLINE OPTION TODAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. EVANS. UH, WE, SO WE NOW HAVE 14 OF OUR 15 MEMBERS PRESENT. UM, MR. DORN SAYS HE'LL BE HERE BY 10:00. THAT'LL MAKE 15, THAT'LL, THAT'S OUR ATTENDANCE EX- EXPECTED FOR TODAY. AGAIN, OUR QUORUM NUMBER IS NINE. UH, THERE IS FOOD, UH, BRIEF, OR LIVE FOOD AND REFRESHMENTS IN THE BACK, SO YOU'VE, YOU'RE FREE TO ENJOY THAT. SO, UH, THE NEXT THING I'M GONNA DO IS HAVE THE THREE OFFICERS OF THE BOARD, OTHER THAN THE CHAIRMAN, INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, OUR BOARD ATTORNEY, AND OUR BOARD SECRETARY IN OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE CALLS OUT THOSE THREE AS OFFICERS, NON-VOTING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD AS OFFICERS. FIRST, DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS. SAME DEAL, SAME ROUTINE THERE. CHIEF? GOOD MORNING. I'M DR. KAMIKA MILLER HOSKINS, CHIEF PLANNER FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I'VE BEEN IN DALLAS, WELL, IN TEXAS, SINCE 2015, BORN AND RAISED IN GREENVILLE, MISSISSIPPI. UM, I DO NOT RESIDE HERE IN DALLAS, UM, BUT I DO WORK IN DALLAS. I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE, UM, WORKING IN DALLAS SINCE 2022. UM, I'M A RESIDENT OF TERRELL, TEXAS. I FLY OVER TERRELL ALL THE TIME. I'VE LANDED AT YOUR AIRPORT MANY, MANY A TIMES. OKAY. THANK YOU, DR. MIKA, DR. KAMIKA. UH, CAITLIN? CAITLIN BETHE, BOARD ATTORNEY. UM, I STARTED WITH THE CITY IN JUNE OF 2024. I BECAME BOARD ATTORNEY LAST MONTH, SO I'M NEW TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. UM, GREW UP IN KELLER, TEXAS, WENT TO AUSTIN FOR UNDERGRAD, GRADUATED FROM UT IN 2018, AND THEN LAW SCHOOL FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI SCHOOL OF LAW IN 2021. CAME BACK TO DALLAS IN JANUARY 2022, AND BEEN HERE EVER SINCE. AND WHAT GENERAL AREA OF DALLAS DO YOU LIVE IN? OH, I LIVE, UM, NEAR NORTH PARK MALL, KIND OF AT THAT INTERSECTION OF NORTHWEST HIGHWAY AND 75. EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. MS. WILLIAMS. GOOD MORNING, UM, BOARD CHAIRMAN AND BOARD MEMBERS. UM, MY NAME IS MARY WILLIAMS. I HAVE BEEN... I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN HONDURAS, AND I, BUT I'VE LIVED IN DALLAS MOST OF MY LIFE. UH, I WAS, UM, I LIVE IN THE CITY PLACE, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, AND CLOSER TO UPTOWN. AND THEN, UM, I'VE BEEN THE CITY BOARD SECRETARY FOR FIVE YEARS. YES. AND I'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS FOR 11 YEARS. THANK YOU. OUTSTANDING. OKAY. SO EVERYONE'S INTRODUCED. [00:20:01] SO THE NEXT SEGMENT OF OUR AGENDA [IV. Public Testimony] IS PUBLIC SPEAKERS, PUBLIC TESTIMONY. SO HOLD ON A SECOND. THE VERY PERSON THAT I NEED TO GO TO IS HA... OKAY. SO MS. WILLIAMS, DO WE HAVE REGISTERED SPEAKERS FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY? YES, SIR. I DO. HOW MANY? I HAVE, UH, TWO. PLEASE. MR. STEVE LONG. MR. LONG, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE. I'M GONA EMBARRASS YOU AS I HAVE IN THE PAST BECAUSE WE ARE, WE ARE SO HONORED THAT YOU'RE WITH US. I MENTIONED EARLIER TODAY THAT THERE ARE VERY FEW OF HIS, UM, TRAINEES THAT, THAT ARE LEFT ON THE BOARD. UM, THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT ARE HERE, BUT VERY FEW. THEY'RE THINNING OUT AS WE A- AGE OUT AND/OR, UH, RETIRE FROM OUR SERVICE. BUT WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND SPEAKING. MR. LONG. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. UH, MY NAME IS STEVE LONG. I'M AT, UH, RESIDE AT 902 THOMASON DRIVE. AND, UM, I'M HERE JUST TO SAY, UH, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE ON THIS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. UM, HAVING BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PROCESS HERE AT CITY HALL AS AN EMPLOYEE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, I DO HAVE A VERY - HOW MANY, PLEASE? PARDON ME? HOW MANY YEARS? I STARTED IN 1986. I BECAME... I WAS WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IN 1994, AND I RETIRED IN 2019. SO, UM - SO IS THAT 25 YEARS, 30 YEARS? WITH THE BOARD OF, FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS. THERE YOU GO. IN MY RETIREMENT SPEECH IN TWO - 2019, SOMEONE, A COLLEAGUE OF MINE SAID, "YOU SHOULD FIGURE OUT HOW MANY APPLICATIONS YOU ADMINISTER." IT'S AROUND 3,500. SO IT WAS A LOT OF... WELL, NO. I MEAN, I, I APPRECIATED SERVING THE CITIZENS, UH, VERY MUCH, AND I ALSO WAS VERY, UM, APPRECIATIVE OR THAT WAS A PART OF THE PROCESS THAT YOU HAVE AT YOUR PUBLIC HEARINGS WITH GIVING YOU INFORMATION AS THE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATOR FOR YOU TO MAKE A DECISION, IN PART BASED ON WHAT WE TOLD YOU IS, WERE THE FACTS AT YOUR BRIEFING. AND OF COURSE, THE DECISION WAS ALWAYS MADE IN THIS ROOM OR ANOTHER ROOM AFTER ALL EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY HAD BEEN PRESENTED TO YOU AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. BUT, UM, I DO HAVE A SPECIAL APPRECIATION FOR YOUR SERVICE. I DO KNOW THAT FROM SOMETHING MAYBE AS, UH, EASY AS A CARPORT AND A SIDE YARD SETBACK WHERE YOU HAVE MAYBE A PARAGRAPH OR MAYBE ONE PERSON GIVING YOU TESTIMONY AS TO WHY YOU SHOULD GRANT A CARPORT IN A SIDE YARD, IT CAN BE THAT EASY OR IT CAN BE HUNDREDS OF PAGES ON AN APPEAL OF THE DECISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL. AND I UNDERSTAND THE, THE, THE RANGE OF COMPLE - UH, COMPLEXITY WITH EACH APPLICATION MADE TO YOU. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE VERY MUCH AND YOUR DILIGENCE WITH, UM, AS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD WITH WEIGHING OUT THE FACTS AND, UM, MAKING A CONCLUSION THAT WOULD HOPEFULLY, UM, STAND, OR IF APPEALED TO DISTRICT COURT, BE HELD, UH, A JUDGE WOULD AFFIRM YOUR DECISION. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I DO APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE AND, UM, THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. WELL, I WILL SAY AGAIN, ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, AND I'VE SAID THIS THE LAST FOUR YEARS, THIS BEING THE FIFTH YEAR, WE'VE HAD AN ANNUAL MEETING WHERE YOU HAVE SPOKEN THAT WE APPRECIATE YOUR LOYALTY AND SERVICE TO THE CITY. UH, STEVE AND I, VERY AD HOC, NEVER TALKING ABOUT A CASE. WE'LL GET TOGETHER FOR LUNCH. WE HAVEN'T IN A LITTLE WHILE, AND IT IS GREAT PICKING HIS BRAIN EVEN YEARS LATER AFTER HIS SERVICE. HE IS, I SAID THIS MORNING, UH, TO THE STAFF THAT WAS LISTENING TO HIM, THAT YOU ARE THE PLATINUM LEVEL SERVICE, THE PLATINUM EXAMPLE THAT MANY OF US STILL REMEMBER AND WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER, AND WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. UM, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, STEVE. MS. BOARD ADMIN - BOARD SECRETARY? MS. JEN- JENNIFER HARAMOTO. I WILL MENTION TO THE BOARD BEFORE MS. HIRAMOTO SPEAKS, I REACHED OUT VIA EMAIL TO, UH, WHAT I'D CALL, UH, REGULAR, UM, PRESENTERS, UH, TO THE BOARD AND INVITED THEM TO COME SPEAK. UM, SEVERAL SAID THEY WANTED TO, BUT THEY COULDN'T. UM, AND SO, UM, UH, AND WE ALSO SEND THAT SAME INVITATION OUT TO OUR EMAIL LIST SO THAT THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT AS THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING, THAT THERE'S PUBLIC TESTIMONY. SO, SO PLEASE PROCEED. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, MS. HARAMOTO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD MORNING. UM, I SHARED, UH, MR. LONG'S GRATITUDE FOR [00:25:01] YOUR SERVICE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UM, YOUR ROLE IS VERY IMPORTANT IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, UM, IN THE DEVELOPMENT CODE. UM, I'M GONNA READ SO I DON'T RAMBLE TOO MUCH. UM, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE, UH, RELIEF VALVES IN OUR DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES IN OUR COMPLEX ZONING CODE. UH, WE'RE GETTING A PREVIEW OF THE FUTURE ZONING CODE, UH, LATER THIS WEEK JUST TO MAYBE HOPEFULLY REDUCE SOME OF THE COMPLEXITIES. BUT, UH, I WANNA TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. UM, I MAKE APPLICATIONS TO OTHER PANEL, UH, OTHER COMMISSIONS, AND I WANNA COMPLIMENT THE BOARD STAFF SPECIFICALLY. UM, SO HAPPY THAT THERE'S A FULL STAFF AGAIN, UH, FOR THEIR SUPPORT. UM, YOUR STAFF IS EXCELLENT AT COMMUNICATING THE EXPECTATIONS OF THIS PROCESS, THE CRITERIA, AND SUPPORTING THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE ON THE HEARING DAYS. THEY RUN A VERY TIGHT SCHEDULE, UM, AND THEY DO MORE WORK THAN THE DAYS THAT THEY PUT ON YOUR COVER SLIDE FOR HOW LONG EACH CASE TOOK TO GET TO YOU. THE PROCESS THAT STAFF HAS FOR ACCEPTING ADDITIONAL APPLICATION MATERIALS, UH, WORKS VERY WELL. UM, I LEARNED EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT THERE'S NO CLEAR PROCESS FOR THIS IN CITY PLANNING COMMISSION FOR PLATS. UM, I LEARNED THIS YEAR THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE A RULE FOR THEIR QUASI-JUDICIAL PORTION OF THEIR HEARING. UH, THEY HAVE THAT NOW. UM, I'LL CLOSE WITH, UH, TWO FRIENDLY SUGGESTIONS, UM, HOPEFULLY TO HELP THE CUSTOMERS, AND THAT'S REGARDING THE SCHEDULE. UM, IT WOULD BE FANTASTIC TO HAVE AN ANNUAL CALENDAR FOR SUBMITTAL DATES FOR THE, TO STAFF FOR THE DOCKETS. UM, WE GET THAT AS AN EMAIL, UH, INDIVIDUALLY EACH TIME WE HAVE AN APPLICATION. UM, AN ANNUAL SCHEDULE WOULD BE FANTASTIC. UH, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST MAYBE MODIFYING THE TERM PRE-SCREENING GOAL, BECAUSE THAT'S, TO REGULAR FOLKS, THAT'S KIND OF VERY, IT'S VAGUE. UM, BUT AGAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE, UH, TO THE CITY OF DALLAS. THANK YOU, MS. HIRAMOTO. WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER PUBLIC SPEAKERS AT THIS, UH, PUBLIC TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME? NO, THE SPEAKERS REGISTERS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE ON. ONE COMMENT I DIDN'T MAKE THAT I'LL MAKE NOW. IT'S ALWAYS ENLIGHTENING FOR ME TO HEAR EACH MEMBER SPEAK ABOUT WHERE IN THE CITY THEY LIVE. I DIDN'T SAY DISTRICT, JUST WHERE IN THE CITY, UH, BECAUSE WE ARE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE CITY, AND THAT'S WHAT'S VERY IMPORTANT ABOUT, UM, US CARRYING OUT OUR DUTY IS THAT WE DON'T REPRESENT A STREET OR A NEIGHBORHOOD, WE REPRESENT THROUGHOUT OUR CITY, SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. OKAY. SO THE NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS THE CHAIRMAN'S REPORT. UH, THAT'S PAGE FIVE AND SIX IN YOUR DOCKET. UH, A COUPLE THINGS THAT I WANNA MAKE A SPECIAL NOTE OF. UH, IN PREPARING FOR TODAY'S... THANK YOU, STEVE. THANK YOU, JENNIFER. APPRECIATE IT. IN PREPARING FOR TODAY'S, UM, REPORT, I CONTACTED THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO GET THE STATUS OF THE NUMBER OF APPEALS FROM BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT CASES THIS YEAR, ONLY ONE. SO ONLY ONE DECISION HAS BEEN APPEALED OUT OF A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARING THIS YEAR. UM, AND THEN THIS IS AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE FIVE. AND THEN WE HAVE FIVE PENDING APPEALS COMPARED TO 15 A YEAR AGO AND SIX FIVE YEARS AGO. SO WHAT THAT'S TELLING ME IS AN EXCELLENT INDICATION OF THE SOUNDNESS OF OUR DECISION-MAKING PROCESS. PART OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE GOING THROUGH IN THE TRAINING HERE, UH, WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS ABOUT OUR DECISION-MAKING PROCESS. SO I'M VERY PLEASED WITH THAT. ALL RIGHT. UH, NEXT [VI. Guest Speakers] ITEM IS OUR PUBLIC, IS OUR GUEST SPEAKERS. WE HAVE TWO GUEST SPEAKERS TODAY. FIRST IS EMILY LIU, WHO'S THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. AND I ASKED MS. MS. LIU TO PRESENT TO US TODAY, UM, TO TALK ABOUT HER LEADERSHIP AND HER DEPARTMENT, BOTH REFLECT - UH, RES - RETROSPECTIVE OF 2526 AND SOME OF HER PLANS OF 2627. I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO ASK QUESTIONS EITHER DURING HER PRESENTATION OR AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION. UM, HER POWERPOINT SHOWS THE EMPIRE THAT SHE HAS, AND I SAY THAT GENTLY. UM, AND I HOPE YOU'RE GONNA INTRODUCE SOME OF YOUR STAFF PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE AS WELL, MS. LIU, BUT I'LL LEAVE THAT TO YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CHAIR NEWMAN, AND GOOD MORNING, UH, MEMBER OF THE BOARD. UM, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW ME, UH, EMILY LIU WAS, UH, PLANNING DEVELOPMENT. MAYBE I SHOULD FOLLOW THE TRADITION OF INTRODUCE MYSELF BEYOND THE WORK A LITTLE BIT. PLEASE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. SO I MOVED TO THE CITY OF DALLAS IN MAY OF 2024, ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO. I WAS BORN [00:30:01] AND RAISED IN CHINA. I MOVED TO THE UNITED STATES ABOUT 30, ALMOST 36 YEARS NOW. AND I LIVED IN WASHINGTON, D.C. COLUMBUS, OHIO, ILLINOIS, CHICAGO AREA, KENTUCKY FOR 25 YEAR KENTUCKY, AND THEN DALLAS. EVERY SINGLE MOVE, I FOLLOW MY FAMILY. THE LATEST ONE, UH, MY YOUNGEST CHILD WHO WAS BORN IN COLUMBUS, OHIO, WE LIVED IN ILLINOIS A LITTLE BIT AND GREW UP IN LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY FOR 21 YEARS, DECIDED AFTER COLLEGE THAT THERE'S NOTHING TO DO THERE. AND HE WANTED TO FIND A MORE EXCITING CITY TO LIVE IN. HE ENDED UP IN DALLAS. I GUESS YOU HAVE ALL THE SPORTS TEAM HERE, EVERY SINGLE MAJOR SPORT. HE LOVES SPORTS. SO I MISS HIM SO MUCH. I ENDED UP FOLLOWING HIM THE NEXT YEAR. WHEN I FIRST MOVED HERE, UH, CITY MANAGER ASKED ME TO COME HERE AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE. I TRIED TO LOOK FOR APARTMENT. IT'S PRETTY EXPENSIVE HERE, EVEN FOR A DIRECTOR. UM, AND SO I LIVE ACTUALLY IN A HOTEL FOR A LITTLE BIT, IN AIRBNB FOR A LITTLE BIT, AND FINALLY ENDED UP IN DOWNTOWN DALLAS IN AN APARTMENT. IT WAS A HIGH RISE. IT WAS BEAUTIFUL VIEW, I HAVE, I HAVE TO SAY. IT WAS VERY BEAUTIFUL. I LIVED THERE FOR A YEAR AND EVENTUALLY I PURCHASED A LITTLE HOUSE IN OAK CLIFF. I THINK I LIVE IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD AS ANDREW. IT'S ACTUALLY WEST, UH, OAK CLIFF TO BE EXACTLY. SO THAT'S WHERE I AM. IS THAT YOUR HOOD, MR. FINNEY? WEST OAK CLIFF. I THINK IT IS MR. FINNEY'S HOOD. YEAH. UH, I, I NEED TO HOST YOU TO MY HOUSE, ONE NEIGHBORS. I DIDN'T KNOW YOU LIVED THERE. BUT ANYWAY, UM, UH, SO I LOVE IT. IT'S A LITTLE HOUSE. I HAVE A YARD. UM, LOVE GARDENING. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT GARDENING, I LOVE GARDENING. SO I HAVE SOME TIME TO DIG THE DIRT. YOU WONDER HOW I KEEP MY SANITY. THAT'S HOW. ANYWAY, SO, UM, TODAY I'M PRESENTING ABOUT, UH, THE DEPARTMENT TO YOU, LIKE AN ANNUAL MEETING, WHAT WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED MOSTLY LAST FISCAL YEAR AND WHAT OUR GOALS THIS YEAR. SO NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UH, I WANT TO SAY, UH, WHO IS GOING TO RUN MY SLIDES? I'M PRETTY SURE SOMEBODY GONNA HELP ME. BUT ANYWAY, UM, THE MISSION OF THE DEPARTMENT IS TOGETHER WE'RE PLANNING AND BUILDING A BETTER DOLLARS FOR ALL. UM, AND, UH, UH, I THINK MARY, MARY, ARE YOU HELPING ME WITH THE SLIDES? SO BEAR WITH ME FOR A FEW MINUTES. I CAN TALK ALL DAY LONG WITH ALL SLIDES, BUT YOU MAY NOT WANT TO HEAR ALL OF THAT. UH, YES. UH - IT'S ONLINE ON SCREEN. OKAY. SO I GUESS YOU CAN ALL SEE THE SCREEN. IT JUST - NOT YET. YOU HAVE TO SHARE IT TO THE... OKAY. BUT IT'S, IT SHOULD BE IN OUR, OUR MAIN SLIDE DECK ALREADY. JASON'S STILL HERE. I'M SO GLAD. OKAY. HE'S THE MAN. AND WHY DON'T YOU REINTRODUCE WHILE WE'RE AT THAT, MS. LIU? YEAH. UM, ALL RIGHT. SO - WELL, DON'T GO ANYWHERE, JASON. HE, SHE'S GONNA REINTRODUCE YOU. I HAVE, I HAVE, UH, IF I DON'T NEED... LET'S JUST DO THIS. I HAVE A PAPER CUT. THERE WE GO. IT JUST FLIPPED OVER. UH, AND, UH, I WANT TO INTRODUCE OUR LEADERSHIP TEAM FIRST. THAT'D BE GREAT. THANK YOU. THERE WE GO. OKAY. NEXT SLIDE. NEXT SLIDE. WE ALREADY TALK ABOUT THE MISSION. NEXT SLIDE. NEXT ONE. I'M GONNA START. HERE WE GO. SO IT'S A BIG DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE 385 PERMANENT PROJECTION PLUS FIVE INTERNSHIP PROJECTIONS. SO ALMOST 400, I ALREADY SAY ALMOST 400. A BIG DEPARTMENT ALSO HAVE TREMENDOUS, UM, TALENT IN OUR DEPARTMENT. AND SOME OF THOSE AT LEADERSHIP ROLE, UH, WE HAVE THREE DEPUTY DIRECTOR. YOU CAN HEAR FROM ONE OF THEM TODAY. UH, DR. ANDREA WUDRIA, UH, GOING TO PRESENT TO YOU LATER. SHE IS IN CHARGE ALL THE PLANNING AND ZONING RELATED FUNCTION FOR THE DEPARTMENT AND FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS AS WELL. AND ALSO, SAM ESCONDER, I'M PRETTY SURE YOU KNOW HIM. HE'S BEEN HERE. UM, I MEAN, THE, ONE OF THE PO, YOU ARE THE PO, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL DECISIONS. HE IS A DEPUTY DIRECTOR OVERSEEING ALL PERMITTING FUNCTION, PLUS HE'S ALSO OUR CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL. ANYTHING THERE IS INTERPRETATION ABOUT BUILDING CODE, HE'S THE ONE. UM, AND ALSO WE HAVE EVERYTHING ELSE, UH, HR, UH, FINANCE, UM, CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. SO THAT'S UNDER VERNON YOUNG, UH, ANOTHER DEPUTY. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UH, WE ALSO HAVE, UM, LIKE 60 SOME DIFFERENT TEAM. THESE ARE THE DIFFERENT... EACH OF THE LINE HERE FUNCTION IS ACTUALLY ONE TEAM. SO THEY ARE MANAGED UNDER SEVEN [00:35:01] ASSISTANT DIRECTORS. SO EACH DEPUTY DIRECTOR WILL HAVE TWO OR THREE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR. THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IS REALLY ON THE GROUND DOING THE DAILY WORK, MANAGING THE PLANNING, ZONING, PERMITTING, ALL OF THAT. SO FOR EXAMPLE, UH, OUR, UH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF PLANNING OVERSEEING EVERYTHING RELATED TO THE LONG RANGE PLANNING. YOU HEARD ABOUT FORWARD DALLAS 2.0, NEIGHBORHOOD PLANNING, AUTHORIZED HEARING. THOSE ARE THE AREA-WIDE REZONING TEAM. WE HAVE URBAN DESIGN, HISTORIC PRESERVATION, CONSERVATION, AND ALSO, UH, GS, A LOT OF, UH, DATA RELATED. IT'S ALL UNDER, UH, ARTURO. UM, AND THEN ZONING, UH, WE HAVE MEGAN WEIMER. UH, SHE OVERSEE ALL ZONING RELATED. THIS, THIS IS SOMETHING I WANT TO, UH, UH, EXPAND A LITTLE BIT. SO ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEAR AGO, LIKE A MONTH BEFORE I STARTED, EXTRA A MONTH AFTER I STARTED, GOT IT WRONG, A MONTH AFTER I START TWO DEPARTMENT MERGE, PLANNING URBAN DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UM, AT THE TIME, UM, BOARD ADJUSTMENT WAS UNDER DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, I BELIEVE. SO THEN THE TWO DEPARTMENT MERGED INTO ONE. UM, IT'S MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. UM, WE BREAK DOWN THE SILO. WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH EACH OTHER. SO BEFORE THE MERGE, THE ZONING WERE BROKEN DOWN IN, IN TWO DEPARTMENT. BASICALLY, THE ZONING INCLUDED TEXT AMENDMENT, RIGHT? TEXT AMENDMENT IS UNDER URBAN, UH, UH, PLANNING URBAN DESIGN. AND, UH, THE MAP AMENDMENT IS ALSO UNDER PLANNING URBAN DESIGN. HOWEVER, THE ZONING REVIEW AND ZONING INTERPRETATION IS UNDER A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT. AND SOMETIME ALL THE WORK HAS BEEN DONE UNDER SAY MAP AMENDMENT, SAY JENNIFER, UH, THEN EARLY, SHE HAD THE ZONING CASE GOING THROUGH ALL THE PUBLIC HEARINGS, SIX MONTHS TIMEFRAME, AND NOW GOING FOR A PERMIT ONLY WAS TOLD BY THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT THAT THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION. SO YOU HAVE TO START OVER. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THOSE CASES WHEN I FIRST STARTED. UM, IT'S JUST LIKE TWO DEPARTMENT NOT TALKING TO EACH OTHER AND THEN HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEWS. SO NOW THE ZONING IS UNDER ONE DEPARTMENT. WE'RE GONNA HAVE ONE INTERPRETATION AND ONE TEAM. SO THAT'S MAKE IT VERY CONSISTENT. IT'S REALLY IN THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR CUSTOMER, AND THAT'S WHAT MATTERS. UM, SO EVERYTHING UNDER ZONING IS, UM, UH, MEGAN. AND, UH, PERMITTING, WE BREAK IT DOWN INTO DIFFERENT COMMERCIAL PERMITTING IS A BIG TEAM. UH, AND, UH, LINDA VELEZ, RESIDENTIALTY UNDER, UH, WILLIE FRANKLIN, I THINK, UH, YOU PROBABLY KNOW ABOUT WILLIE AS WELL. UM, THEY DON'T COME HERE AS MUCH, BUT THEY'RE DOING A LOT WORK IN THE BACKGROUND. SO MS. SO MS. LIU, A QUESTION FOR YOU. UH-HUH. AND I'M ENCOURAGING QUESTIONS AS THEY COME UP. UH, ALL PERMITTING IS STILL AT ACMAC? ALL PERMITTING IT WHAT? IT'S STILL AT ACMAC ON JEFFERSON? UH, I THINK YES. PERMITTING THERE, BUT WE HAVE SOME ZONING REVIEW HERE IN, IN THE - HERE IN, IN CITY HALL? YEAH. SO - THEY USED TO BE AT ACHMON, THEY WERE - SO PLANNING AND ZONING IS REALLY HERE, WHEREAS THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND PERMITTING IS AT JEFFERSON, ACHMARK. YEAH. OKAY. ALMOST ALL PERMITTING LISTED HERE AND UNDER AKMONK. HOWEVER, THE INSPECTION, SEE, I HAVE THREE TEAMS. ONE IS COMMERCIAL REVIEW, ONE IS, UH, RESIDENTIAL REVIEW. THE INSPECTION, WHICH WE HAVE AN INTERIM, UH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR NOW, THEY ARE LOCATED IN FOUR DISTRICT OFFICE. SO THEY ARE NOT AT ACHMON. ONE OF THEM COULD MOVE TO AKMONK THIS MONTH, BUT THEY ARE DISTRICTS CLOSER TO OUR CUSTOMER. SO MINIMIZE THE TRAVEL DISTANCE. SO WE HAVE FOUR DISTRICT OFFICE AS OF TODAY. ARE THERE, ARE THERE PLANS TO KEEP PERMITTING AT ACMAC OR IS THAT IN DISCUSSION STILL OR IS THAT KIND OF BEEN POSTPONED? 'CAUSE YEARS PAST THE - WELL, THAT'S A, THAT'S A DISCUSSION REALLY AT THE CITY COUNCIL LEVEL. I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT MYSELF. UM, YOU KNOW, OCMAC, OBVIOUSLY THE BUILDING IS PRETTY OLD. UH, I MEAN, IT'S, IT WORKS NOW, BUT DOWN THE ROAD, IT'S PROBABLY, UH, I NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT. UM, YES. UH, I WOULD SAY STAY TUNED ON THAT ONE. CITY COUNCIL BEEN DISCUSSING A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THEM. UH, BUT ANYWAY, UH, MOST OF PERMITTING UNDER, UH, SAM IS, IS IN OCMONC EXCEPT A DISTRICT OFFICE. I WANT TO EMPHASIZE UNDER COMMERCIAL ZONE, UH, COMMERCIAL PERMITTING IS A MASSIVE, MASSIVE TEAM. UH, ALL THE ENGINEER, WE HAVE ABOUT 70 ENGINEERS. THERE ARE DRAINAGE, PAVEMENT, UH, WATER, WASTE, WATER, UH, FIRE RELATED, UH, REVIEW. IT'S ALL UNDER THERE. WE HAVE Q-TEAM. YOU HEARD ABOUT Q-TEAM, RIGHT? THOSE ARE EXPEDITED REVIEW. UH, WE HAVE A SMALL COMMERCIAL. WE HAVE BUILDING CODE, PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, HEALTH. ALL OF THOSE REVIEWS [00:40:01] ARE UNDER COMMERCIAL. IT'S VERY, VERY BIG. UM, AND, UH, RESIDENTIAL, WE NOT ONLY HAVE RESIDENTIAL, WE, UH, REALLY FRANKLY ALSO OVERSEE SCHOOL TEAM. UM, YOU HEARD ABOUT THE SCHOOL PASSED A BOND, $6.2 BILLION BOND. AND WHAT THAT MEAN TO US, I WAS LIKE FIRST MEETING WITH, UH, SCHOOL DISTRICT WAS LIKE, "WOW, THAT MEANS A LOT OF WORK FOR US." SO ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE SCHOOL, OVER 240 OF THEM NEED SOME TYPE OF PERMITTING, UH, EITHER BRAND NEW BUILDING, ADDITION OR REMODEL. THINK ABOUT THAT, ALMOST FOUR. AND ABOUT 100 OF THEM HAVE GO THROUGH THE ZONING, UM, TEAM. BASICALLY, THEY NEED A REZONING, UH, OR MAKE AMENDMENT TO THEIR PDS OR SUP. UH, THE SCHOOLS IN DALLAS ARE NOT ALLOWED BY RIGHT. USED TO BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT NOW LONGER SINCE 1980S. SO EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION OF A NEW SCHOOL HAS GO THROUGH A DISCRETION REVIEW. THINK ABOUT IT, 100 OF THEM. THAT'S A LOT OF WORK. THAT'S PROBABLY, UM, HALF OF OUR WORKLOAD ANNUALLY FOR THE ZONING TEAM. SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY, UM, UH, HOW TO, UH, STREAMLINE THAT PROCESS TO MAKE IT EASIER. WE'RE WORKING WITH A SCHOOL TEAM ON THAT. AND THE LAST ONE OUT HERE IS CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE AND TEAM EXCELLENCE. THOSE ARE A BUDGET, WHICH IS PAST THE BUDGET. GOOD NEWS IS THE CITY PASSED ABOUT SIX, ALMOST SIX BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET. OUR DEPARTMENT, WE'RE DOING SO WELL. I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT, UH, A LITTLE BIT. UH, OUR BUDGET IS DOING REALLY, REALLY WELL, ALMOST 70 MILLION FOR THE DEPARTMENT. UH, MOST OF THEM ENTER ENTERPRISE FUND. WE ARE 90% ENTERPRISE FUND, 10%, UH, GENERAL FUND. OUR ENTERPRISE FUND IS DOING EXTREMELY WELL, UH, TH- THIS PAST YEAR. UH, SO THE BUDGET, ALL THE SUPPORTING FUNCTION THERE, AND THEN, UH, CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE, UH, X-RAY JASON POOLE OVERSEE ALL OF THAT. WE HAVE MADE TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENT IN TERMS OF CUSTOMER SERVICE. AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT. I TOLD EVERYBODY, UH, WE NEED TO OFFER EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE EVERY SINGLE DAY. SO THAT'S, UH, OUR, UH, VERY GOALS. VERY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIRMAN NEWMAN, FOR THAT HIGH STANDARDS. WE REALLY, REALLY, UH, TRYING TO IMPLEMENT THAT CULTURE. I THINK RIGHT NOW, UH, I WOULDN'T SAY 100%, ALMOST ALL THE STAFF IS ON BOARD WITH THIS. VERY IMPORTANT. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY OUR DEPARTMENT EXISTED, BECAUSE OF OUR CUSTOMERS. THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT. SO I'LL MAKE A VERY QUICK EDITORIAL COMMENT THAT MR. QUINN HAS A QUESTION. OKAY. IS WE LOVE JASON POOLE. WE LOVE STEVE LONG AS WELL. WE LOVE JASON POOLE. HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN IT WAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IN HELPING US RETOOL A LOT OF OUR PROCESSES. EACH MONTH WHEN WE GO THROUGH OUR HEARINGS AND WE HAVE VIDEO AND PICTURES OF PROPERTIES, IT'S THE JASON POOLE 360 CAMERA WE TALK ABOUT. AND HE'S SMILING OVER THERE, BUT IT'S THE JASON POOL 360 CAMERA. AND WE SAY, "STOP. NOW DO A 360 SPIN AND WE CAN SEE THE PROPERTY, THE, DOWN THE STREET, THE PROPERTY OVER HERE AND SO FORTH." AND SO I, EVERY CHANCE I GET, I TALK ABOUT JASON POOLE. AND WHEN YOU, UH, THIS IS INSIDE BASEBALL NOW. A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, SHE CA - SHE AND I MET, MS. LOU AND I MEET REGULARLY. SHE SAID, "MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M MOVING JASON POOLE." NO, YOU CAN'T. DON'T, DON'T, YOU CAN'T DO IT. AND OF COURSE, HE DID. AND I SAID, "WELL, AT LEAST YOU GOT HIM OVER IN CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE BECAUSE WE SO APPRECIATED HIS LEADERSHIP AND HIS RESPONSIVENESS TO US AS A BOARD TO IMPROVE WHAT OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS." SO I JUST HAD TO SAY THAT AND RAISE, RAISE UP JASON POOLE AND HIS LEADERSHIP, AND I'M GLAD TO SEE HE'S DOING A GREAT JOB FOR YOU IN THAT NEW ROLE. WE'LL TAKE HIM BACK ANYTIME YOU WANNA GIVE HIM BACK TO US, BUT, BUT WE APPRECIATE THAT. MR. QUINT. MR. LOU, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. UM, BEING IN THE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE WORLD, WE ALWAYS HEAR ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CONSTRUCTION TIMING AND PERMITS AND FOLKS TRYING TO GET INTO BUILDINGS. WHAT IS THE AVERAGE TIME OR, OR WHAT FOR A PERM - A COM - A COMMERCIAL PERMIT NOWADAYS? WOULD YOU ALLOW ME TO ELABORATE THAT IN ONE OF MY SLIDES - THAT'D BE AWESOME. LATER. SURE. SO, UH, TO FOLLOW UP ON CHAIRMAN NEWMAN'S, UH, COMMENT, THAT'S WHY I HAVE JASON POOLE HERE TODAY. I KNOW I'M GONNA HAVE SOME TOUGH QUESTION MAY HAVE TO COME HERE TO RESCUE ME. I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE HIM, BUT ANYWAY. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO BE RESCUED, BUT, BUT IT, BUT YES, ANYWAY. OKAY. UH, I DO HAVE ANSWER FOR THAT. I WANT TO ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THAT, UH, TOGETHER WITH MY OTHER TALKING POINT ABOUT THAT. BUT I DO HAVE GREAT NEWS. MR. SASHINGTON HAS A QUESTION. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UM, IN YOUR LEAD IN, YOU, YOU MENTIONED, UH, THE, THE WORKLOAD THAT YOU ARE GETTING READY TO EXPERIENCE AND, UM, THAT THE FACT THAT YOU'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STREAMLINE THAT. HAVE YOU STARTED [00:45:01] TO, UH, WORK ON THAT EFFORT AND HAVE YOU BEEN REACHING OUT TO THOSE, UM, SCHOOLS OR, OR HAVE ANY OF THOSE CONSTRUCTION TEAMS REACHED OUT TO YOU TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT PROCESS CAN BE, UH, STREAMLINED AND COMPRESSED SO THAT IT MOVES, UM, UH, FORWARD, UM, EFFICIENTLY? OR, UM, IS THAT STILL IN THE WORKS? THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION. I, I, I ALMOST GO TH - WENT THERE EARLIER, BUT, UM, GLAD TO, YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION. I CAN ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT. SO BASICALLY, THE WEEK AFTER THE BOMB PASSES, THE SCHOOL AND OUR DEPARTMENT START TO MEET WEEKLY. EVERY WEEK, WE MEET. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THIS TOGETHER BECAUSE IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT OUR SCHOOL, THEY EDUCATE OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS, VERY IMPORTANT THAT... SO WE'RE DOING A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS WITH THEM. AND ONE OF THEM IS THAT WE'RE STILL, UM, UH, ON THE, UH, WE'RE STILL TALKING TO THEM IS FOR THEM TO FUND ADDITIONAL PARTITIONS BECAUSE OUR DEPARTMENT, WE DID NOT FUND AT THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY. WE FUND OUR PARTITIONS LOWER LEVEL BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OUR INDUSTRY FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN THE REAL ESTATE IS GO UP AND DOWN, RIGHT? WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TOO MUCH, UH, EXCESSIVE CAPACITY. UH, AND LAST YEAR WE ACTUALLY TRIMMED 58 PARTITIONS. UH, THAT WAS A DIFFERENT STORY BECAUSE, UH, THE, THE, UH, BUDGET ISSUE. UM, SO WE ARE A LITTLE TIGHT IN TERMS OF STAFFING, BUT THEY ARE WORKING WITH US FROM DAY ONE. WE ARE TRYING TO FIND SOME COMMON SOLUTIONS. WE PRESENTED SOME OF THE SOLUTION TO THE CPC, UH, CITY PLAN COMMISSION, THE ONE WHO ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THOSE PROJECT. AND, UM, SO WE, WE HAVE A DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO TRYING TO ADDRESS THIS, UH, WORKLOAD. PROBABLY GONNA LAST FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, IF NOT MORE. SO WE ARE MEETING WITH THEM WEEKLY TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER. THEY ARE A GREAT PARTNER AND WE'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH THEM TO TRY AND FIND SOME SOLUTIONS. SO THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT QUESTION. TRYING TO BE A LITTLE PROACTIVE ON TOP OF THINGS. UH, THAT'S WHAT WE DO. WE KIND OF SHIFTED, UH, THAT A LITTLE BIT INSTEAD OF REACTIVE BECAUSE INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW, WE JUST WAIT, WHATEVER PERMIT COME TO THE DOOR, WE REACT. BUT WITH HELP WITH JASON AMAZING. THIS IS ONE OTHER THING WE START TO DO, LIKE LITTLE FORECAST, WHAT'S COMING IN THE PIPELINE, IS SOMEBODY RAISED SOMETHING IN THE NEWS, LIKE A BUSINESS COMING TO DALLAS, WE START TO PUT ON A SPREADSHEET TO SEE WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO OUR WORKLOAD. UH, AND THEN WE START TO FACTOR IN THE BUDGET, ALL OF THAT. UM, SO IT'S A GREAT TEAM THAT I WORK WITH THAT VERY TALENTED AT HELPING US NOT ONLY REACT, BUT HAVE A PLAN MOVING FORWARD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION. AND NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, MAN. HE HAS ONE FOLLOW UP. MR. SASHINGTON. UH, AND, UM, FOR, FOR US WHO ARE ON, UH, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, DO YOU ANTICIPATE SOME PERCENTAGE OF THAT, UH, WORK COMING, UH, TO US FOR US TO SEE? DO WE ANTICIPATE SEEING ANY OF THOSE THINGS? 'CAUSE IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT, UM, WHAT, WHAT'S ON THE HORIZON FOR SOME OF THESE NEW BILLS. UH, USUALLY, UH, I, I WILL SAY IN SHORT TERM, YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA STILL SEE SOME OF IT BECAUSE OUR CURRENT CODE IS STILL, UM, VERY OUTDATED AND NEED, UH, LIKE A RELIEF, AS JENNIFER JUST SAID, HERE AND THERE. UH, I HOPE WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE A LOT MORE, UH, APPEAL CASES, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU'RE GONNA SEE SOME EXCEPTIONS, SOME, UH, VARIANCES, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, IT'S PROBABLY... I CANNOT PREDICT EXACTLY, BUT I THINK IT PROBABLY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN NEXT YEAR. HOWEVER, I DO WANT TO MAKE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT. I WAS WAITING TILL LATER, BUT WE ARE GOING TO, UH, LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT CODE. AS A MATTER OF FACT, IN TWO DAYS, UH, AT THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION, THE FIRST DRAFT OF DALLAS ZONING REFORM, WHICH IS A TOTAL REWRITE OVERHAUL OF OUR CURRENT CODE WILL BE RELEASED ON THURSDAY. SO STAY TUNED. UM, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PRESS RELEASE. WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LINK. UH, WE'LL SEND TO EVERYTHING. UH, KAMIKA WILL WORK WITH YOU TO SEND IT TO OUR BOARD AS WELL. UH, THE NEW CODE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOAL IS SIMPLE, CLEAR, AND FUTURE READY. A LOT OF TIME, IT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE IT'S JUST TOO OLD, DOES NOT, UM, ADDRESS THE CURRENT SITUATION. BUT I WOULD SAY, UH, HAVING, UH, IN THE PROFESSION FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS AND WHAT I HEARD FROM OTHER CITIES IS NO CODE WILL BE PERFECT. YOU PROBABLY CAN ADJUST 60, 70% OF THE TIME WILL BE GRADE CODE, BUT A LOT OF TIME THEY DO NEED VARIANCE EXCEPTIONS. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ALMOST EVERY CITY THAT HAS ZONING HAD A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. YOUR ROLE IS VERY IMPORTANT. YOUR JOB IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO LOOK LIKE CASE BY CASE AND MAKE THAT JUDGMENT. AND YOUR DECISION IS FINAL. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. UH, WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. MS. LAM? [00:50:01] OKAY. HI. BUT IT'S A BIT OF A FOLLOW-UP TO MR. SASHINGTON'S QUESTION. I'VE NOTICED BEING ON THIS BOARD SINCE 2019 OFF AND ON THAT IN THE LAST MAYBE 12 MONTHS OR SO, WE'VE SEEN A DECLINE IN APPLICATIONS, OR AT LEAST VOLUME. DOES, DOES YOUR DEPARTMENT SEE THAT AS A POSITIVE? IS THAT DUE TO STATE LEGISLATURE AND CHANGING IN KIND OF SOME OF THE ZONING ORDINANCES AND RULES BA- BASED ON, YOU KNOW, US BEING A LARGER CITY? UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? GENERALLY SPEAKING, THAT'S A POSITIVE. THAT MEANS, UM, THERE, UH, LESS DEVIATION, UH, FROM THE CODE. UM, UH, AND GENERAL SPEAKING, YES. UM, YOU KNOW, THE STATE OBVIOUSLY HAVE MADE SOME CHANGES, UH, OVER, UH, THE LAST, ESPECIALLY LAST SESSION, UH, 2089 SESSION, UH, MAKING A LOT OF THINGS BY RIGHT. UM, SO DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT TRIGGERED TO THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT, BUT IT'S A GOOD THING. UM, AND ALSO MEANS PROBABLY PEOPLE ARE MORE WILLING TO BE IN COMPLIANCE, UM, MORE PROJECT IN COMPLIANCE INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, JUST NEED, UH, RELIEF. UM, BUT WE'LL SEE. UH, YOUR ROLE WILL REMAIN. THERE'S NO DOUBT, NO MATTER HOW GOOD OUR CODE IS, WE NEED BOARD ADJUSTMENT. BUT, AND ALSO FRUSTRATE UP AND DOWN. SO TO, TO THAT POINT, AND I'M NOT, I DON'T WANNA HAVE YOU GO TO THE ANNUAL REPORT YET BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS THAT LATER, BUT, UH, WE PUT OUR, OUR NUMBERS TOGETHER EVERY YEAR, AND THE COMPARISON, MS. LAM BROUGHT UP THE QUESTION OF, UH, NUMBER OF REQUESTS COMPARED TO PREVIOUS YEARS, IT'S DOWN BY 21%, 21%, THE NUMBER OF REQUESTS COMING. THE PREVIOUS FISCAL YEAR WAS 231. THIS LAST ONE THAT FINISHED SEPTEMBER 30TH WAS O- ONLY 182. THAT'S A 21% DE - REDUCTION. AS THE DIRECTOR SAID, YOU COULD LOOK AT IT BOTH WAYS. I MEAN, ONE IS THERE'S NOT AS MANY REQUESTS OUTSIDE OF THE CODE, AND IS THAT A FUNCTION OF PEOPLE SAYING THEY CAN DO THEIR PROJECTS WITHIN THE CODE OR NOT? SO, BUT IT'S A REDUCTION OF 21%, WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING. MS. LAMB? ARE WE SEEING, UH, THAT SIMILAR DECLINE WITH P&Z AND OTHER ZONING CASES? UH - I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THIS IS A PRODUCT OF ALSO PEOPLE THAT ARE COMPLIANT WITH THE CODE. UH, CPC, UM, I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER. UH, I THINK WE, WE ALSO SEE A SMALL DECLINE THERE AS WELL, UH, OVERALL CASE. BUT WITH THE SCHOOL COMING, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GONNA HANDLE. SO WE, WE ARE, UM, UH, FOR, FOR THE CPC, UH, THAT HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THE STATE LAW. LIKE USED TO BE, IF YOU'RE BUILDING MULTIFAMILY, EVEN IN COMMERCIAL, RIGHT, ZONING DISTRICT, YOU NEED A REZONING. NOW, SENIOR TO BID 840 YOU CAN DO IT BY RIGHT. SO WE DO SEE A DECLINE, ESPECIALLY FOR MULTIFAMILY REQUESTS TO BE BUILT IN, IN COMMERCIAL. AND WHAT ABOUT, WELL, LAST ONE. WHAT ABOUT BUILDING PERMITS? HAS THAT BEEN STEADY OR IS THAT ALSO - WELL, A BUILDING PERMIT IS PRETTY STEADY. OKAY. UM, YEAH, UH, ACTUALLY, AS A MATTER OF FACT, OUR REVENUE IS, HAS BEEN DOING REALLY WELL. YEAH. OUR REVENUE IS RELATIVELY STABLE. AND WE ALSO HAVE SEEN, UH, QUITE A FEW LARGE, LARGE PROJECT. EVEN THOUGH THE NUMBER REMAINS SIMILAR, THE REVENUES DO GO UP BECAUSE LARGER PROJECT PAY MORE, UH, PERMITTING FEE. UM, SO, AND I, UM, LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. UM, SO I HAVE, UH... OH, HERE... I'M SORRY. UH, GO BACK. SORRY. I DID NOT KNOW THAT ALREADY. SO I WANT TO REVIEW LAST YEAR'S SIX GOALS. EACH YEAR WAS SET A GOAL. WE PRESENTED TO THIS BOARD. SO LAST YEAR, WE HAVE SIX DIFFERENT GOALS. UM, THESE ARE THE GOALS I'M GLAD TO REPORT. WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THEM FAIRLY WELL. AND THE FIRST ONE IS RELATED TO, UM, THE LAND USE, UH, INCONSISTENCY, HOW TO ADDRESS THAT. UM, AND WE HAVE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF AUTHORIZED HEARING. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT. USUALLY THOSE ARE HANDLED BY CPC. THEY ARE AREA-WIDE REZONING. SOME OF THOSE OVER 1,000 PARCELS IN OTHER CITY CALLED AREA-WIDE REZONE. IT'S NOT A PARCEL BY PARCEL REZONING. YOU REZONE THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD SOMETIMES. AND THAT CAN BE INITIATED BY CITY COUNCIL, FIVE SIGN ME- MEMO, OR CPC WITH THREE SIX-YEAR MEMO. SO OVER THE LAST, I WOULD SAY MAYBE EIGHT YEARS, WE HAVE, LIKE, A LOT OF, LIKE, CLOSE TO 20. WE HAVE THIS BIG BACKLOG, AND BASICALLY CPC AND CITY COUNCIL AT REQUESTS USUALLY AT THE RESIDENT THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS AREA TO LOOK AT THE CONSISTENT BETWEEN LAND USE AND ZONING. AND SOMETIME PEOPLE LIVE IN A PLACE THAT'S ONLY INDUSTRIAL. THERE'S THEIR HOME. SOMETIME IT'S, UH, THE OTHER WAY. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE CONSISTENT, ESPECIALLY AFTER OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. FORWARD DOLLAR HAS BEEN ADOPTED, THAT WAS ADOPTED ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. EVERYTHING THE LAND USE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE SEE [00:55:01] IF THAT CONSISTENT WITH OUR, UH, LAND USE POLICY OR NOT. UM, SO LAST YEAR, UH, WE DID MERGE TWO TEAMS. WE USED TO HAVE PLANNING, UH, ONE DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND ZONING ANOTHER ONE. UH, ONE DEPUTY DIRECTOR LEFT. WE USED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMBINE THE TWO. SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO, UM, UH, WORK CLOSELY TOGETHER AMONG THOSE TEAM. AS A RESULT, WE HAVE, UM, NO LONGER HAVE A BACKLOG ON THE AUTHORIZED TEAM. ALL 18 AUTHORIZED TEAM HAS BEEN ASSIGNED. UH, BASICALLY, UH, OTHER TEAMS STEP IN, INSTEAD OF JUST AUTHORIZED TEAM DOING THE WORK. WE HAVE OTHER TEAM COME IN, UH, LONG RANGE PLANNING COMING IN. WE HAVE OTHER... WE HAVE NOT GET BOARD ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE THEY WERE SHORT STAFFED. EVENTUALLY, MAYBE, UH, THIS IS OPPORTUNITY WHEN THE SCHOOL TEAM, A PROJECT COME IN, WE MAY HAVE TO BORROW A BOARD ADJUSTMENT TEAM IF, IF THE TREND CONTINUE. WE HAVE SO MUCH WORK. BUT BOARD ADJUSTMENT TEAM LAST YEAR HAVE A SHORTAGE OF STAFF. THEY STILL BE ON TOP. I'M REALLY PROUD OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. UH, AND THEN ALSO THE DALLAS ZONING REFORM IS BEING AROUND FOR THREE YEARS. WE FIRST AUTHORIZED THAT BY CITY COUNCIL 2023. UM, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT. LAST YEAR MADE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS. WE HAVE A LOT OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT. WE DID ZONING 101 THROUGHOUT THE CITY, AND, UH, CONTINUE TO WRITE THE FIRST DRAFT, WHICH CAN BE RELEASED IN TWO DAYS. SO THAT'S REALLY A GREAT PROGRESS. STREAMLINE THE PROCESS. WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT. I'M GONNA SHOW YOU THE RESULT. THIS IS ALSO THE QUESTION THAT WAS RAISED EARLIER ABOUT STREAMLINING HOW LONG IT TAKES. I HAVE THOSE NUMBERS. UM, UH, CUSTOMER S- SERVICE USING TECHNOLOGY. UH, JASON IS IN CHARGE OF THAT. HE'S BEEN WORKING, LIKE, A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TRYING TO DO THIS. UH, ALSO, UH, LAST YEAR, BEFORE LAST YEAR'S FISCAL YEAR ACTUALLY STARTED, WE, UM, ADOPTED DALLAS NOW. IT'S AN ONLINE PERMITTING, UH, SOFTWARE. UH, IT'S VERY, UM, UH, IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING THINGS. IF YOU REMEMBER, IN JANUARY, EARLY FEBRUARY, WE HAVE THIS STORM, LIKE NOBODY CAN GET OUTSIDE THEIR HOUSE. OUR OFFICE HAS TO BE CLOSED PHYSICALLY, BUT NOT CLOSED TOTALLY BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN STILL DO BUSINESS ONLINE. SO WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED THAT. WE HAVE VIRTUAL INSPECTIONS. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO DO, UH, LOOK AT SOME, UH, AI OPTIONS, CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THAT. AND ALSO THE CULTURE. I DON'T EVEN NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT. UH, I, I CAN EMPHASIZE, UM, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE, BEING PROBLEM SOLVER. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO, UH, DELIVER EXCELLENT SERVICE EVERY SINGLE DAY TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND TO YOU ALL. UM, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AND THE NE - UH, LA- LA- LAST ONE IS ELEVATE THE DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL RECOGNITION FOR INNOVATION AND EXCELLENT PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. I HAVE TO TELL YOU, WE HAVE DONE THAT LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. AND THIS ONE WAS REALLY INSPIRED BY, UH, OUR CITY MANAGER. IF YOU COME UP HERE, UH, IF YOU ARE, UM, IN THE, IN THE ELEVATOR, YOU PROBABLY SEE THIS. UM, THERE'S A POSTER THERE, RIGHT? IT SAID, THIS WILL COME FROM CITY MANAGER, KIM TOLBERT. WE'VE BUILT A MOMENTUM. LET'S KEEP REIGNING UP THE SCORE TO PUT DALLAS AT THE TOP OF THE LEADERBOARD WHERE WE BELONG, WHERE WE BELONG, WHERE DALLAS BELONG, WHERE PLANNING DEVELOPMENT BELONG, WE BELONG AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL. AND WE HAVE DONE THAT FOR ALL THE CREATIVE WORK, NOT JUST DAY-TO-DAY OPERATION, CONTINUE TO IMPROVE, NOT JUST THAT, BREAKTHROUGH WORK. WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL. OUR CITY, BECAUSE OF THE GREAT WORK WE'RE DOING, UM, UH, THIS FISCAL, LAST FISCAL YEAR, OUR CITY ALSO WAS SELECTED BY ENTERPRISE COMMUNITY FOUNDATION AS ONE OF THE FIRST COHORT OF FIVE CITIES SELECTED ACROSS THE COUNTRY, UH, FOR THEM TO FUND INITIATIVE TO LOOK AT CREATIVE WORK HERE. SO IN THAT CASE, WE'RE LOOKING AT MIXED INCOME HOUSING DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM, HOW WE CAN EXPAND THAT THROUGHOUT THE CITY. SO WE GET RECOGNITION. WE GOT... WE'VE BEEN INVITED TO THE NATIONAL PLAN COMMISSION, UH, PLANNING CONFERENCE TO BE A SPEAKER. SO LAST, UH, NOVEMBER, UH, WE WERE INVITED TO NATIONAL LEAGUE OF CITY NATIONAL CONFERENCE TO BE A SPEAKER AT THAT CONFERENCE. UH, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING WHEN I PRESENTED THERE, I HAVE OUR CURRENT CITY COUNCIL MEMBER SITTING IN THE SESSION. I HAVE MY PREVIOUS COUNCIL MEMBER FROM MY PREVIOUS SITTING AND THEY'RE ALL CHEERING ON ME. IT'S AMAZING. SO THE WORK WE HAVE DONE HERE AT DALLAS GOT NATIONAL RECOGNITION, NOT JUST FOR RECOGNITION'S SAKE, BUT IT'S REALLY HELP US GETTING ALL THE FUNDING, ESPECIALLY IN THE FUTURE, THE FEDERAL HOUSING BILL JUST PASSED IN JULY. IN THE FUTURE, WHAT WE DO IN THE CITY CAN TIE. TO THE HOUSING [01:00:01] FUNDING RECEIVE FOR OUR SAY CDBG FUND, ALL THESE FEDERAL GRANT, THEY'RE GONNA TIE TO THE WORK. HAVE YOU DONE YOUR ZONING REFORM? WE ARE IN THE PROCESS RELEASING THAT. HAVE YOU DONE YOUR BUILDING CODE REFORM? WE ARE DOING THAT AS WELL. HAVE YOU DONE ALL THESE OTHER CREATIVE WORK, STREAMLINE THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS? IT'S KEY TO THE SUCCESS OF BUILDING HOMES. AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS WATCHING THAT AS WELL. THEY DON'T MANDATE, BUT THEY TIE THEIR FUNDING TO IT. SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THE WORK WE DO IS REALLY HELPING, UH, PARTITION DALLAS FOR FUTURE FUNDING AND FOR FUTURE RECOGNITION AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL. AND THIS GOAL IS NOT GONNA BE IN THIS YEAR'S, UH, LIST BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE. WE ALREADY STAY UP THERE AND WILL REMAIN UP THERE. UH, NEXT ONE, PLEASE. I HAVE FEW EXAMPLES, UH, TALKING ABOUT, UH, SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS. NEXT ONE. UM, THIS IS A PERMIT, UH, TIMELINE. UH, THIS KIND OF ANSWER, UH, ONE OF THE QUESTION HERE. I WANT TO SAY JUST ONE EXAMPLE. OUR RESIDENTIAL IS DOING FAIRLY WELL. RESIDENTIAL PERMIT, IT'S BEEN DOING WELL FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS EVEN BEFORE I STARTED. SO IT REMAIN CONSTANT SINGLE DIGIT. UH, RIGHT NOW IT'S, UH, NINE CALENDAR DAYS, UH, MEDIUM. IF YOU HAVE A RESIDENTIAL PERMIT, SINGLE FAMILY DUPLEX OR EVEN EIGHT PLEX. AND SO UNDER RESIDENTIAL PERMIT IS NINE CALENDAR DAY, WHICH IS ABOUT SEVEN OR SIX, UH, BUSINESS DAYS. IF YOU DO AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IT'S 24 HOURS, VERY QUICK. SO OUR RESIDENTIAL PERMIT HAS BEEN GOOD FOR A WHILE. SO WHEN I FIRST STARTED, COMMERCIAL PERMIT IS WHAT CITY MANAGER ASKED ME REALLY WORK TO WORK HARD ON. AND I - MR. QUINT, MR. QUINT, DID THAT GO TO YOUR QUESTION? I, I, YES. OR DID YOU HAVE A PHONE? THAT'S RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL IS WHAT WE HAVE MADE THE MOST IMPROVEMENT. SO WHEN WE FIRST START, WHEN THE FIRST MERGED, UH, TO TAKE A NEW COMMERCIAL PERMIT, REGULAR COMMERCIAL PERMIT, NOT THE Q TEAM, THE, THE EXPEDITED ONE, IT TOOK 286 DAYS. THIS YEAR IS 108 DAYS. SO IT'S 62% REDUCTION. SO I HAVE TO GIVE A LOT OF CREDIT TO OUR PERMITTING TEAM AND JASON IS INSTRUMENTAL IN HELPING OUT MONITORING THAT. WE HAVE MAKE A LOT OF CHANGE. IT SOUNDS VERY EASY, BUT THERE'S A LOT WORK BEHIND IT. NOT ONLY THAT, WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO IMPROVE THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE AT THE SAME TIME. IT'S A 62% REDUCTION. THAT'S JUST FOR NEW PERMITTING, ADDITION REMODEL ACROSS THE BOARD HAVING, YOU, YOU CAN SEE THAT HAS BEEN RE- REDUCED. UM, IT'S TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENT. UM, YOU HAVE... MR. QUINN, DID YOU WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT? A TI, A TENANT IMPROVEMENT PROJECT. SO WHAT IS THAT? IT'S, IT'S IMPROVED BY 20%, BUT WHAT'S THAT TIMEFRAME NOW WHEN, FROM THREE YEARS AGO, FOUR YEAR... DURING COVID, I KNEW IT WAS A LONG TIME. THREE YEARS AGO? YES. WHAT, WHAT DID YOU SAY? SO FROM THE, F- FOR A TI PROJECT THREE YEARS AGO, I MEAN, THE, THE CITY OF DALLAS WAS NOT GETTING RECOGNIZED OR IT WAS, IT WAS... EVERYONE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW LONG IT TOOK TO GET A TENANT IMPROVEMENT PERMIT FOR A BUILDING, FOR TENANT IMPROVEMENT. UH, THAT'S REMODEL. I THINK THAT'S JUST A NUMBER OF DAYS IF I, UH, PERMITTED. WHAT, WHAT IS THAT NOW? WHAT WAS IT THEN? WHAT IS IT TODAY? UM, I'M PRETTY SURE JASON CAN FIND IT FROM THE... WE CALL IT REMODEL, RIGHT? WE CALLED REFINISH, UH, TENANT FINISH OUT FIVE. TODAY IS FIVE CALENDAR DAYS. IT'S SUBMEDIATE. OKAY. SO IF YOU HAVE A VERY LARGE - IF... GUYS, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, IT NEEDS TO BE ON THE MICROPHONE SO EVERYONE CAN HEAR IT. SO MR. QUINT HAS THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. MS. LAMB, ONE SECOND. UH, SHE, UH, MS. LIU SAID FIVE CALENDARS. FIVE CALENDAR DAYS AS OF TODAY. IT'S UP AND DOWN, BUT WE'VE BEEN DOUBLE DIGITS BEFORE, BUT AS OF TODAY, IT'S FIVE CALENDAR DAYS. SOME OTHER CITY MEASURE IN BUSINESS DAYS, WE MEASURE CALENDAR BECAUSE THAT'S HOW OUR CUSTOMER FEEL. SO WE, WE, WE, WE CALCULATE IT IN CALENDAR DAYS. MR. SASHINGTON HAS A QUESTION. THANK YOU. DIRECTOR LIU, I JUST WANNA, UH, SAY THAT, UM, HAVING HAD THE, I DON'T KNOW, UNFORTUNATE PRIVILEGE OF, UH, CON - UH, CONTRACTING ACROSS THE, UH, COUNTRY IN THE PREVIOUS ROLE, UM, DALLAS IS MUCH EASIER THAN, UH, GETTING THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS AND, UH, FASTER THAN LA COUNTY, UH, THAN SAN DIEGO, THAN ATLANTA. SO, UM, AND THAT WAS YEARS AGO. AND IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE IMPROVING ON WHAT, UH, WHAT WAS YEARS AGO, THEN YOU GUYS ARE, UH, GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. SO, UH, JUST SOME ENCOURAGEMENT. I, I REALLY WANT TO THANK OUR ENTIRE TEAM. IT DOES TAKE EVERYBODY'S EFFORT. UM, JASON HAS 2023 RIGHT AT [01:05:01] THE TIME OF THE MERGER REMODEL, UH, IN TEAR FINISH 21 CALENDAR DAYS. SO IT'S GONE FROM 21 TO FIVE. RIGHT. THAT'S PRETTY GOOD. ONE SECOND, MS. LAM. ANYTHING ELSE, MR. SASHINGTON? MS. LAM? SO I THINK JUST FOR CLARIFYING, BECAUSE WE'RE BOTH IN COMMERCIAL REAL - A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. JUST TO CLARIFY, WE'RE BOTH IN COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE. I WORK WITH A LOT OF TENANTS. I THINK WHAT YOU MEAN WITH REMODEL IS IF THEY ALREADY HAVE A CO AND THEY'RE APPLYING FOR REMODEL PERMITS IS FIVE DAYS. BUT FOR A LOT OF TENANTS WE WORK WITH, THERE'S MEPS INVOLVED, MECHANICAL, ELECTRICAL, AND PLUMBING. AND I ASKED MR. POOLE WHAT, WHAT THAT TIMEFRAME IS BECAUSE THAT'S NOT A FIVE-DAY FROM APPLICATION TO, TO REMOVAL. UM, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD SAY FIVE DAY IS A MEDIUM DAY, THAT IF YOU HAVE A LARGER COMPLEX, UH, IT MIGHT BE TAKE MORE, AND SOME OF THE MEDIUM MEANS IN THE MIDDLE. LIKE 50% OF THE CASES TAKE LESS THAN FIVE DAYS AND 50% TAKE... WELL, THAT'S HOW WE MEASURE IT. BUT, UH, I THINK THAT'S UNDER REMODEL, RIGHT? GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD, COME OVER. SO YES, JUST, JUST A STANDARD REMODEL, WHETHER THERE'S TRADES INVOLVED OR NOT IS THE FIVE DAYS. IF YOU'RE DOING AN ADDITION AND ADDING TWO SQUARE FOOTAGE, THEN, UH, IT'S 31 DAYS IS WHAT WE'RE RUNNING RIGHT NOW, CALENDAR DAYS. AND THEN FOR COMMERCIAL NEW, IT'S 108. I'M SEEING ON THE COMMERCIAL... SO WE'RE TALKING COMMERCIALLY. RIGHT. SO BRAND NEW CONSTRUCTION GROUND UP IS 108. OKAY. BUT YOU'RE SAYING IF, IF I HAVE IT LIKE 3,200 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL SPACE AND THEY'RE GOING IN AND GETTING MEPS AND BUILDING OUT A WHOLE NEW K - UH, WHOLE NEW RESTAURANT, IT'S FIVE DAYS TO GET A PERMIT? 'CAUSE I'M SEEING CLOSER TO 108. SO IT, IT SHOULD BE JUST CONSIDERED A REMODEL PERMIT AND THEN IT WOULD BE THE FIVE DAYS. OKAY. YEAH. WELL, I THINK IT'S FABULOUS, BUT WE, WE WANNA MINIMIZE ERRORS BECAUSE THE ERRORS COME TO US. BUT I THINK IT'S FABULOUS. SO YOU AND I'VE S - TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE. WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PERMITS THAT YOU ISSUE IN A YEAR? WELL, 50,000 ROUGHLY. OKAY. 50,000. 50,000 PERMIT WE HANDLE EVERY YEAR. 50,000. OKAY. YEAH. THIS YEAR, I THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE BECAUSE... YEAH, LAST YEAR WAS CLOSE TO 50,000. IT'S BEEN CONSISTENT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. 50,000. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW? OTHERWISE, WE'RE GONNA LET HER KEEP GOING. KEEP GOING, MS. LIU. OKAY. UH, I, I, I HOPE I'M NOT TAKING TOO MUCH OF YOUR TIME. I KNOW YOU HAVE A FULL AGENDA. NO, NO, THIS IS VERY GOOD. AND I'M GONNA ENCOURAGE AGAIN THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, JUST BE RECOGNIZED. THIS IS MEANT TO BE INTERACTIVE AND INFORMATIVE. YES. I LOVE THE QUESTIONS. GIVE ME A LITTLE BREAK TO THINK A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. UH, OF COURSE, VIRTUAL INSPECTION READY TOX. WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO DO SOMETHING REALLY QUICK CREATIVE. AND THIS WILL SAVE NOT ONLY TIME, BUT ALSO MONEY SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE VEHICLE SENT OVER. SO THIS IS... WE STARTED AS A TEST PILOT PROJECT. WE'RE GOING TO, UH, EXPAND UPON THIS AND DO MORE. THIS WORK VERY WELL FOR SMALLER INSPECTION FOR, LIKE, SAY A, UH, WATER HEATER, UH, AIR CONDITIONING, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IF IT'S VERY COMPLEX, WE STILL SEND OUR, UH, INSPECTOR THERE. THIS IS VERY HELPFUL, ESPECIALLY TODAY. YOU ALREADY KNOW SOME OF THE TRADE, E- ESPECIALLY LIKE PLUMBING. UH, IT'S A SHORTAGE OF WORKFORCE ACROSS THE BOARD. SO IT'S VERY HARD TO, UH, UH, FILL THOSE PETITIONS. SO THIS WILL INCLUDE BOTH EFFICIENCY AND ALSO USE TECHNOLOGY TO HELP THE DEPARTMENT, UH, DOING A BETTER JOB. UM, THE OTHER THING I WOULD LIKE TO - MS. MS. PEREZ HAS A QUESTION. ALL RIGHT. ABOUT VIRTUAL INSPECTION? CLOSER TO YOUR MICROPHONE OR MAKE SURE YOUR MICROPHONE'S ON. THANK YOU. CAN YOU GO INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL ABOUT WHAT THIS VIRTUAL INSPECTION? SO - HOW, HOW DOES THAT WORK? UH, SO, SO NOW WE, WE REALLY PARTNER WITH THE APPLICANT. WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO DETERMINE, UH, THE PARAMETER, RIGHT? I, AS I MENTIONED, SOME PROJECT EASIER THAN OTHERS. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE FOCUSED ON WATER HEATERS, SOME AIR CONDITIONINGS. UH, BASICALLY, WE USE A SOFTWARE. WE USE THE SOFTWARE HAS A GPS. YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE INSPECTING THE SITE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO INS- INSPECT, RIGHT? SO THERE'S GPS ON THAT. WE KNOW THE ADDRESS. THE GPS HAVE TO TIE THAT ADDRESS TO THAT LOCATION WE'RE INSPECTING. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, EITHER THE PLUMBER AND SOMETIME THE HOMEOWNER, UH, CAN BE THERE AND THEY HAVE A PICTURE. SO WE HAVE THIS PROGRAM. WE BOTH... IT'S LIKE A VIRTUAL. UH, YOU, YOU SEE ON THIS SIDE, THEY SEE ON THE OTHER SIDE, THEY WILL USE EITHER PHONE, A TABLET TO SHOW WHAT'S AROUND IT. AND THE INSPECTOR ON THIS SIDE WILL LOOK AT AND SAY, "OH, MOVE THIS WAY. SO TAKE ME A PICTURE OF THAT SEAL AND TAKE A PICTURE OF THE..." AND ALL OF THAT WILL BE DOCUMENTED AND THEY WILL SEND IT OVER TO YOU AND THAT WILL BE IN THE FILE AND THEY WILL MOVE AROUND TO SEE WHAT INSPECTOR REQUIRED TO SEE, AND THEY HAVE TO SEE EVERYTHING, UM, AND REQUEST, UH, THAT CAMERA TO MOVE AROUND A LITTLE BIT. UM, WE HAVE [01:10:01] CONDUCTED, UH, SEVERAL HUNDRED OF THOSE JUST IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS. THE ONLY REASON I'M ASKING IS I LIVE IN ELLEN THICKET NORTH PARK. MR. POOLE, YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH US. UH, YOU KNOW, UH, WE HAD AN ISSUE A COUPLE YEARS BACK ABOUT SOME BUILDERS WHO WEREN'T FOLLOWING BY OUR PD. AND SO WE ARE VERY, UH, HYPERSENSITIVE WHEN NEW HOMES ARE BEING BUILT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD NOW TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE MEETING THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENT THERE. SO I WANNA KNOW, HOW WOULD THIS VIRTUAL... WOULD YOU USE TH- THIS FOR THAT KIND OF - I DO NOT THINK THIS WILL APPLY FOR EVERYTHING. UH, THAT WAS A BUILDING, UM, UH, THE INSPECTOR WILL GO. IF WE NEED TO MEASURE THE HEIGHT, WE'LL PROBABLY NEED TO SEND, LIKE, A SURVEY OVER THERE. I, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE, ESPECIALLY SOMETHING CONTROVERSIAL, EVEN THOUGH THE VIRTUAL MEETING IS SOMEWHAT CHALLENGING, WE CAN STILL GO ON THE FIELD TO VERIFY. THIS MAY NOT APPLY TO EVERYTHING. IT'S VERY LIMITED SCOPE AT THIS POINT. RIGHT NOW, THE, THE GREATEST DEMAND IS WITH, UH, MECHANICAL AND PLUMBING. LITTLE BIT CLOSER SO WE HEAR YOU, MR. POOLE. YEAH, RIGHT NOW, THE, THE BIGGEST DEMAND IS MECHANICAL AND PLUMBING, SO THAT'S WHERE THE FOCUS IS. BUT I'M GUESSING, MS. PEREZ, IF IT WORKS FOR MECHANICAL AND PLUMBING, THEIR STAFF'S GONNA WANNA EXPAND IT, AND THEREIN LIES YOUR CONCERN ABOUT HOW WELL THE ACCURACY AND QUALITY CONTROL IS AS YOU EXPAND THAT. UH, YEAH, BASICALLY, I WOULDN'T TRUST SOME OF THE BUILDERS. I- IF YOU'RE COUNTING ON THEM TO SAY, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THIS PICTURE AND HERE'S THIS PICTURE, THERE ARE SOME I WOULDN'T TRUST TO DO THAT. AND IN SOME CASES MAY NOT WORK. AND, UM, I WILL SAY ACCURACY, UM, IS VERY IMPORTANT. UH, IT'S, IT'S WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIFE AND SAFETY ISSUE. SO SOME OF THIS MAY NOT WORK AT ALL. WE MAY EXPAND A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT I DON'T EXPECT WE EXPECT TO EVERY... NOT LIKE INSPECTORS DON'T NEED THE TRUCK ANYMORE GONNA SAY, NO, THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. WE STILL NEED, BUT THIS DOES HELP, UH, RELIEVE OUR WORKLOAD IN SOME. SOMETIMES ME CAN YOU HAVE TO DRIVE LIKE 20 MINUTES, GO INSPECTION, LIKE, YOU KNOW, NOT EVEN TWO MINUTES COME BACK, BUT THIS WILL HELP. RIGHT NOW, IT'S ONLY MECHANICAL AND PLUMBING, LIMITED, VERY LIMITED SCOPE. MS. LAMB HAS A QUESTION. MINE IS KIND OF A FOLLOW-UP. I LOVE THE EFFICIENCY - CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, GUYS. I LOVE THE EFFICIENCY OF THIS, BUT THIS, OUR, OUR PANEL'S HEARD TWO CASES IN THE LAST TWO BOARD MEETINGS WHERE THE SURVEY WAS INCORRECT AND THE BUILDER BUILT IN, IN THE SIDE YARD SETBACK OR FRONT YARD SETBACK BECAUSE THE SURVEY WAS INCORRECT. AND GRANTED, THAT DOESN'T FALL ON THE CITY, THAT FALLS ON THE SURVEYOR. BUT MY CONCERN IS, IS AS A BOARD, YOU KNOW, US HAVING AN UPTICK IN THOSE TYPE OF CASES BECAUSE MAYBE THE VIRTUAL INSPECTIONS ARE HAPPENING, AND MAYBE THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE AS A CITY COULD CATCH BEFORE, BEFORE WE GET TO EVEN THE POINT WHERE IT HAS TO COME IN FRONT OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. WE DON'T PLAN TO, UH, EXPAND VIRTUAL INSPECTION FOR THE SETBACK, LIKE YOU NEED TO GO ONSITE METRIC. WE HAVE NO PLAN TO DO THAT, UH, IN THE NEAR FUTURE, AC- ACTUALLY. UH, MAYBE IF WE DO GO THERE, WE, WE'LL LET YOU KNOW, BUT AT RIGHT NOW IT'S VERY LIMITED SCOPE. I DO FEEL, UH, IT'S IMPORTANT TO MEASURE SOMETIME A FEW INCHES COUNT. THANK YOU, MS. LAM. DR. GLOVER. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE GOOD WORK YOU'RE DOING SO FAR. UM, MY QUESTION IS, UH, CONCERNS A FEW CASES WHERE WE HAVE, UH, HAD HERE AT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WHERE, UH, THE MOST CURRENT, UH, PROTECTIONS IN THE AREA THAT HAS BEEN PRO - UH, INFORMATION HAS BEEN PROVIDED ON WAS NOT PROVIDED. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE STABILIZATION OVERLAYS IN CERTAIN AREAS, AND THIS WAS NOT REVEALED TO THE BOARD BEFORE CASES WERE AHEAD. WHAT STRATEGIES ARE YOU PUTTING IN PLACE TO APPRISE CITY STAFF ABOUT THE MOST CURRENT, UM, CODE IN AREAS THAT THEY ARE WORKING IN TO, TO STOP SOME OF THESE THINGS? YEAH, I, I DO UNDERSTAND THERE'S STILL, UH, SOME MISTAKE HERE AND THERE. WE'RE TRYING TO REALLY AVOID THIS SYSTEMIC, UH, MISTAKE. UM, WE, WE, WE'RE TRYING TO... THE OTHER THING IS WE'RE DOING TRAINING INTERNALLY. UH, WE HAVE ONGOING TRAINING. I THINK WE ARE GOING TO IN- INCREASE THAT, UH, VERY, VERY... ESPECIALLY NEW EMPLOYEE, WE ARE DEVELOPING A NEW EMPLOYEE ONBOARD TRAINING. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN NEVER EMPHASIZE ENOUGH, UH, LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE YOUR STAFF IS WELL-TRAINED, UH, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE VERY, VERY BUSY, LOST WORKLOAD, WE STILL WANT TO MINIMIZE, UH, THE MISTAKE, UM, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. THANK YOU. OKAY. UH - CONTINUE, PLEASE. OKAY, LET'S CONTINUE. UM, STRONGER FINANCIAL PROJECTION. I'M SO GLAD TO REPORT. THIS LAST FISCAL YEAR IS UNBELIEVABLY AMAZING. [01:15:01] UM, THE YEAR BEFORE THAT, I LOST A LOT OF SLEEP. UH, OUR DEPARTMENT WAS NOT DOING WELL FINANCIALLY. WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE 58 PROJECTIONS BECAUSE WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH, UH, REVENUE TO COVER THE EXPENSES. WE WERE TOLD THEY WERE CLOSE TO BEING SOLVENT. AND IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT, BUT, UM, WE HAVE MAKE SOME, UH, ESPECIALLY WE HAVE, UM, UH, MAKE SOME, UH, CORRECTION. THERE WAS A MISTAKE, UH, IN ONE OF THE, UH, FEE SCHEDULE, UH, THAT WAS ADOPTED THREE YEARS AGO. UM, BUT WE ABLE TO FIND, UM, THE LOOPHOLE THERE, AND WE IMMEDIATELY SENT, TALKED TO OUR C - UH, CITY COUNCIL MEMBER. WE, WE CHANGED, UH, THAT. SO THAT HAS MAKE A L - BIG DIFFERENCE. AND ALSO, UH, WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF LARGE, UH, PROJECT COMING IN, A PIPELINE REALLY HELP OUR DEVELOPMENT. SO I'VE HEARD A LOT FROM EAST COAST, WEST COAST, MY COLLEAGUES THERE, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT THERE, THEY ARE, SEE A LOT OF SLOWDOWN, BUT IN DALLAS, WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE. WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT PROJECT COMING IN, BIG DEVELOPMENT COMING IN. LIKE THE SCHOOL IS IN THE BILLINGS AND WE HAVE OTHER PROJECT. WE JUST, UH, CLOSE TO FINISH THE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, UM, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, CONVENTION CENTER, UH, THE BAYLOR, UH, MEDICAL CENTER IS COMING UP. SO THERE'S ALL THESE PAR - UH, A LARGE PROJECT. UM, YOU KNOW, GOLDMAN SACHS IS ALMOST, UH, IN, IN THE MIDDLE STILL, UH, BUT WE HAVE MORGAN STANLEY, SO ALL THESE, UH, COMPANIES DO RE- RELOCATE TO DALLAS. IT'S REALLY A BLESSING. SO I'M GLAD TO REPORT THIS YEAR NOT ONLY WE, UM, KIND OF BALANCE OUR BUDGET, WE HAVE $12 MILLION SURPLUS, SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO PUT THAT MONEY IN A FUND BALANCE. UH, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IN THE REALISTIC, UH, INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW, UH, THIS INDUSTRY GO UP AND DOWN, DEPENDS ON NATIONAL, LOCAL ECONOMY. AND SO THE FUND, FUND BALANCE REALLY ALLOW US ON A DOWN YEAR, WE WILL HAVE, GIVE US SOME CURSING FOR, LIKE, UH, HOPING, LIKE, UM, THREE OR FOUR MONTHS. SO THIS REALLY GIVE US A BIG CURSING SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE MORE PETITION? SO I CAN SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, CONFIDENTLY, THIS FISCAL YEAR, WE'RE VERY STRONG. I, I WANNA MAKE A COMMENT. UH, THE SLIDE DECK THAT WE'RE ON RIGHT NOW IS DIGI- DIGITIZING SPECIFIC USE PERMITS. OH YEAH. NO, NO, YOU'RE FINE. YES. YOU WENT TO THE... MS. LOU, YOU WENT TO THE NEXT ONE, WHICH IS PERFECT. SO YOU ALREADY TOOK CARE OF THE NEXT ONE, BUT I WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ON THIS ONE. I S - I'M SORRY. NO, NO, YOU'RE GOOD. UM - YOU GOOD. I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT MY GLASSES ANYWAY. YOU, YOU ARE PERFECT. SO, UM - SO I WANT JASON TO TALK ABOUT THAT. YOU KNOW WHY? HOLD ON. HOLD ON ONE SECOND. OKAY. LET ME MAKE A, LET ME MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THIS DIGITIZING. I THINK IT'S GREAT TO USE TECHNOLOGY AS A TOOL, AND I'VE MENTIONED THIS AT A COUPLE HEARINGS BEFORE TO OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND SUPPLEMENT MEMBERS OR HER STAFF. WHEN THE BOARD GETS ITS CASES, IT GETS IT IN A SLIDE DECK THAT COMES TO US BY EMAIL, AND THEN SOME OF US PRINT IT, SOME OF US GET PRINTED DOCUMENTS, AND THEN AT THE HEARING WE GET IT, AND IT'S REDUCED TO 8.5 BY 11. AND THEN WE'RE SUPPOSED TO, SOME OF US TAKE OUR GLASSES OFF AND SQUINT TO SEE WHERE'S THAT SETBACK LINE? HOW MANY INCHES IS IT FROM THE FRONT YARD OR THE BACK? WHAT IS THE HEIGHT OF THE, OF THE HOME VERSUS THE ADU IN THE BACK? SO, AND SO I'VE MENTIONED TO THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND MS. MARKUM IS THE OLD DAYS, WE'D HAVE THE PLANS THAT YOU COULD OPEN UP AND SAY, "AH, THAT IS WHERE THE INTERSECTION OF THE VISIBILITY TRIANGLE IS OR THE HEIGHT LIMITATION." WHEREAS NOW, ALL THOSE DIGITIZED PLANS ARE POOF. SO I'M JUST CONVEYING THAT AS ONE OF THE JUDGES, AS WE ARE ON THESE CASES, IT'S GETTING A CHALLENGE TO BE ABLE TO REALLY TRULY SEE WHAT'S BEEN DIGITIZED TO THE PRESENTATION FORMAT AS OPPOSED TO THE OLD DAYS OF THESE MAPS AND THESE PLANS. OKAY, I, I- I'M JUST, I'M JUST EXPRESSING A LITTLE FRUSTRATION. I SEE YOU ARE, UH, UH, ON THE OTHER SIDE, BUT, UM, SO - NO, NO. A GREAT THING TO BRAG ABOUT, BUT - NO, NO. MAYBE NOT. WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PROPERLY INFORMED. AND WE HAD A CASE, WE'RE NOT MENTIONING THE NAME OF THE CASES, AND IT WAS ON THE CORNER OF, UH, TWO STREETS, AND THERE WAS A SETBACK AND A VISIBILITY TRIANGLE, AND THE, THE NEIGHBORS DIDN'T LIKE IT, AND THIS PERSON WANTED IT. AND WE HAD TO LOOK WHERE EXACTLY IS THAT THE BUILDING LINE, UH, VERSUS THE, THE SETBACK BY THE ZONING DISTRICT, AND TO TRY TO LOOK AT THE INTERSECTION OF THAT. AND I LOOKED OVER, AND THERE ARE SEVERAL OF THE PANEL MEMBERS TAKING THEIR GLASSES OFF AND SQUINTING DOWN TO TRY TO READ THAT. UM, SO THERE IS A VERY DELICATE SIDE TO THE D- DIGITIZING IS BECAUSE IF WE CAN'T READ THE INFORMATION, THEN WE CAN'T MAKE AN ACCURATE JUDGMENT. [01:20:01] SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE AWARE OF THAT PROCESS. NOW, THE BURDEN'S ON THE APPLICANT, SO I GUESS THE APPLICANT SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT THEIR PLANS TO PROVE X, Y, AND Z. I JUST - THAT'S A GOOD POINT. I, SO - UM, I WAS ALREADY THINKING ABOUT GIVING TO JASON FOR, SO HE CAN TAKE THE CREDIT, BUT I WILL TAKE THIS ONE. UH, I WOULD SAY, UH, FOR THIS PROJECT, IT'S MOSTLY WORD DOCUMENTS. WE DIGITIZE THAT SO, LIKE, JENNIFER, OTHER, UH, APPLICANT DON'T HAVE TO COME TO OFFICE TO GET A COPY. THEY WILL POST THEM ONLINE AND CITY COUNCIL HAVE ASKED TO MAKE THIS PRIORITY. BUT TO YOUR POINT, SOME OF THE DIGITIZED DOCUMENT NOT WORK AS WELL, ESPECIALLY PLANS, YOU NEED TO HAVE A SKILL. Y- YOU KNOW, I DON'T USE THE SKILL AS MUCH ANYMORE, BUT TECHNICALLY, YOU SHOULD MEASURE THE SKILL, THE SETBACK, THE THINGS LIKE THAT. I DO AGREE YOU, BUT I THINK SOMETIME WE, UH, THE PAPER MAY STILL, UH, HAVE TO BE A PART OF, UH, THE, THE PLAY HERE. I'VE GOT MR. HOPKOVITZ, THEN M - DR. GLOVER. MR. HOPKOVITZ. UH, JUST RELATED TO THAT IN TERMS OF DOCUMENTS WE USED TO GET AND DON'T GET ANYMORE, UM, IS THE ACTUAL APPLICATION THAT THE, THAT THE APPLICANT FILLS OUT. AND WE, IN THE PAST, HAVE GOTTEN, UM, FOUND SOME INTERESTING TIDBITS OF INFORMATION IN THERE THAT DON'T NECESSARILY GET 100% TRANSLATED INTO WHAT WE DO GET. AND SO THAT'S ANOTHER AREA THAT I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE NO LONGER RECEIVING A DOCUMENT THAT IN THE PAST WE HAVE FOUND TO BE VERY USEFUL. I DO HEAR YOU. THIS IS SOMETHING I NEED TO DISCUSS WITH MY TEAM AND SEE HOW WE CAN, UH, ACCOMMODATE. AND I, I DON'T WANT TO PROMISE SOMETHING THAT, UH, HAVE NOT TALKED TO MY TEAM. UH, THEY ARE THE ONE WHO DO THE WHERE I CAN SAY SOMETHING. I DON'T WANT TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT NOT, UH, EASY FOR THEM TO. I AM IN THIS CASE, I WANT TO TALK TO KAMIKA AND THE TEAM TO WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP YOU, TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO DO YOUR JOB. AND, AND, AND, AND BEFORE WE GO TO MS. THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND THEN DR. GLOVER, UM, IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE AGAINST DIGITIZING BECAUSE THAT'S TECHNOLOGY AND THAT'S EFFICIENCY, BUT WE WANNA BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND READ WHAT IS BEING PRESENTED. SO MS. DID YOU WANNA MAKE A COMMENT AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GO TO DR. GLOVER. SO TO MR. HOPKEVI'S POINT, TO MR. HOPKEVIT'S POINT, UM, THE APPLICANTS USED TO USE A PAPER SUBMITTAL, BUT NOW EVERYTHING IS, IS DONE THROUGH DALLAS NOW OR SELLER. SO WE DO PRINT OUT THE ACTUAL APPLICATION SUMMARY, UM, THAT, THAT DIANA PULLS FROM, UM, DALLAS NOW. SO IT BASICALLY SERVES AS THE APPLICATION. IT'S A SUMMARY OF WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS INPUT. NO, I, I UNDERSTAND IT'S A SUMMARY OF WHAT THEY PUT THE APPLICATION, BUT WE, UH, I THINK HAVE BENEFITED FROM SEEING WHAT THE APPLICANT ACTUALLY WROTE ON THE DOCUMENT. SO WHAT, WHAT THEY'RE WRITING ON THE DOCUMENT, WE DON'T TYPICALLY USE THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL APPLICATION ANYMORE. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN MOVED TO DALLAS NOW. SO EVERYTHING THAT THEY WOULD NORMALLY PUT ON THE APPLICATION, THEY ENTER IT IN THE SYSTEM. IT'S AN ONLINE APPLICATION AND DIANA PRINTS THAT DOWN. SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE FORMAL APPLICATION WE USED TO HAVE. WHEN SHE PRINTED FROM DALLAS NOW, IT COMES OUT IN A SUMMARY FORM. SO IT STILL GIVES THEM, UH, IT STILL PROVIDES, UM, THEIR REQUEST, UM, THEIR, THEIR NAME, THEIR PROPERTY INFORMATION AND THINGS OF THAT SORT. I GUESS MY UNDERSTANDING WAS WHAT WE WERE SEEING NOW WAS SOMEBODY'S SUMMARY OF WHAT THEY ENTERED. YOU'RE SAYING WE'RE SEEING WHAT THEY ACTUALLY ENTERED? YES. OKAY. SO WHAT DIANA PRINTS IN THE, UM, DOCKET THAT YOU GUYS HAVE, IT'S EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN ENTERED BY THE APPLICANT, UM, FOR THEIR REQUEST FOR THE APPLICATION. E- EXACTLY HOW THEY ENTERED IT. YES, EXACTLY HOW THEY ENTER IT. OKAY. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT THAT WAY, SO THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. DR. GLOVER. UH, WHAT STRATEGIES OR WHAT, UM, WHAT STRATEGIES DO YOU HAVE IN PLACE TO CONTROL DEVELOPER NON-COMPLIANCE? UH, QUITE RECENTLY, WE'VE SEEN A FEW CASES COME HERE BEFORE THE BOARD WHERE DEVELOPERS HAVE ALREADY COMPLETED THE BUILDINGS AND ARE JUST HERE TO ASK FOR THE PERMISSION AND FOR FORGIVENESS. SO WHAT, WHAT STRATEGIES DO YOU HAVE IN PLACE TO CARE OR CONTROL? UH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, SOME OF THE AFTER THE FACTS? YEAH, I THINK THAT HAS TO DO, UH, UH, I MEAN, DEFINITELY THE APPLICANT, UM, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THE LAW AND ALSO, UH, YOUR STAFF PROBABLY WILL USE EVERY OPPORTUNITY, MAYBE HAVE MAYBE SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO BE MORE INVOLVED. SOME TRAINING, AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE CAN TALK TO, SO WE HAVE ONGOING COMMUNICATION WITH THE BUILDERS AND KEEPING THEM, UH, UP TO DATE WITH CHANGING THE CODE. BUT SOMETIME YOU DO HAVE PEOPLE DOING, UH, WORK, UM, AND SOME, SOME OF THOSE [01:25:01] AFTER THE FACT. AND THAT, NOT JUST HERE IN HISTORIC DISTRICT AS WELL. AND SOME PEOPLE, THEY JUST DO IT, THEY, THEY JUST TRULY DON'T KNOW, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER DIFFERENT SCENARIOS AS WELL. UH, I THINK FROM US, UM, I DON'T KNOW WE SEE A LOT OF THAT. WE DO SEE SOME OF THOSE, LIKE, BUILD WITHOUT A PERMIT OR BUILDING NOT IN COMPLY WITH THE LAW, THE FENCE IS TOO TALL OR THAT'S ALREADY BUILT OR BUILT SOMETHING. UM, AND, UH, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO ELIMINATE ANY OF THAT BECAUSE THERE'S MULTIPLE REASONS FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. UH, FOR OUR STAFF, I THINK WE HAVE ONGOING WITH COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONTRACTORS, BUILDERS, AND TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE INFORMED OF WHAT THE LATEST CODE AND, UH, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS UNCOM - BUT IT'S, IT'S A VERY COMPLETED QUESTION TO ANSWER, AND I DON'T KNOW WE CAN JUST TOTALLY ELIMINATE. AND EVERY TIME IT HAPPENS, IT'S REALLY SAD THAT, UM, SOMETIME, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE FACT, YOU HAVE TO SAY, "YOU NEED TO TAKE IT DOWN. IT'S COST EVERYBODY." AND, AND SOMETIME IT GOT APPROVED, BUT IT WILL BE NICE TO HAVE THAT APPROVAL AHEAD OF TIME. ABSOLUTELY. SO WHAT'S INTERESTING TO DR. GLOVER'S QUESTION, AND THE ATTORNEYS WILL ALL NOD THEIR HEADS WHEN I SAY THAT, SO THE ATTORNEYS IN THE ROOM START NODDING. IT IS NOT PART OF OUR CRITERIA, ACCORDING TO THE CODE, ABOUT WHETHER IT WAS BUILT WITHOUT A PERMIT. MM-HMM. THAT IS NOT PART OF OUR CRITERIA. UM, YOU'LL BE HEARING FROM THE STAFF IN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CRITERIA FOR VARIANCE, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, COMPLIANCE CASES, THOSE SORT OF THINGS. IT IS NOT PART OF OUR CRITERIA. NOW, THAT BEING SAID, PART OF OUR CRITERIA IS NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. MM. AND SO THEN IT BECOMES IN THE JUDGMENT OF THE OPINION OF THE BOARD ON A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. UM, BUT THE CONUNDRUM THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING AWAY WITH BUILDING WITHOUT A PERMIT? WELL, I THINK THAT'S GONNA CONTINUE HAPPENING. THE QUESTION BECOMES HOW DO YOU NARROW THAT, SHRINK THAT NUMBER CONSTANTLY? AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MS. LIU AND I TALK INDIRECTLY ABOUT THROUGHOUT THE YEAR IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO? WHAT CAN YOU GUYS DO TO HELP THE CONTRACTING COMMUNITY? AND A LOT OF TIMES I HEAR IN CASES, US ASK THE CONTRACTOR, I'LL PICK ON YOU, MR. FINNEY. "MR. FINNEY, DIDN'T YOU KNOW YOU'RE THIS ESTABLISHED BUILDER IN THE CITY? DIDN'T YOU KNOW THE RULES? "THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER. AND, AND SOMETIMES YOU GET AN ANSWER OF," OH, I'M SORRY. " AND SOMETIMES YOU GET THE ANSWER," WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW. "AND, AND SOMETIMES YOU DON'T GET AN ANSWER. THEN IT'S UP TO THE BOARD TO DECIDE THAT. BUT AGAIN, OUR CRITERIA, UH, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY GOES TO NOT ADVERSELY AFFECTING NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. ATTORNEYS, ARE YOU NODDING YOUR HEADS HERE? BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S... AS MUCH AS WE EMOTIONALLY MAY BE P****D, THAT'S NOT PART OF OUR CRITERIA. MS. LAMB? UM, SO I, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE SOME FEEDBACK. TO YOUR MICROPHONE AGAIN, PLEASE. I WANNA GIVE SOME FEEDBACK. I REALLY APPRECIATE HOW STAFF TAKES THE TIME TO PUT TOGETHER OUR PRESENTATIONS CASE BY CASE. I THINK THEY'RE VERY EFFICIENT AND REALLY RELAY THE NUANCES OF THE CASES REALLY WELL. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING, WE'VE HAD A THIRD PARTY OUTSIDE OF THE APPLICANT THAT OCCASIONALLY HAS PRESENTED CASES, UH, TO THE BOARD AS... AND, AND SO I'VE FOUND IN THOSE CASES, THEY DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES OF THE CASE, OF THE DEVELOPMENT CODE, CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND OR APPRECIATE OUR QUESTIONS AS BOARD MEMBERS. SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE PHASING THAT OUT, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE IF, IF WE MAYBE, IF, IF IT'S MORE NECESSARY TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE AT THE, AT THE CITY LEVEL STAFF LEVEL TO PRESENT RATHER THAN KIND OF, UH, USING THIRD PARTY TO, TO PRESENT THOSE CASES TO US. SO I'LL SPEAK TO THAT. WE USED, UM, THE THIRD PARTY WHEN WE WEREN'T FULLY STAFFED. UM, SO NOW WE'RE FULLY STAFFED AND WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD THAT WAY. UH, THAT'S ACTUALLY, UM, A SCENARIO WHERE WE NEED A THIRD PARTY, WE HIRE THEM ON BOARD, WE GO THROUGH A SCREENING PROCESS. BUT JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, SOMETIME THE STATE LEGISLATOR CAN PASS A LAW. EVERY YEAR THERE WAS LIKE, UH, A PROPOSAL SAYING ALL THE CITY SHOULD JUST ALLOW THIRD PARTY REGARDLESS. SO WE WERE REALLY, REALLY, UM, AGAINST THAT BECAUSE JUST FOR EXACT REASON, UH, THERE'S A PERIOD OF TIME WE ALLOW THIRD PARTY. WE HAVE SEEN, UH, A LOT OF MISTAKE BEING MADE BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH STAFF IS BEING BEEN TRAINED EVERY SINGLE DAY, IT'S TOO MISTAKEN - BUT THAT WAS YEARS AGO THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF THIRD PARTY MISTAKES. YEAH. EVERY - THAT HASN'T BEEN RECENT. WE DON'T HAVE THE THIRD PARTY, LIKE, I WANT TO BE THIRD PARTY CAN BE CERTAIN YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A CITY, BUT THERE ARE, EVERY YEAR THERE ARE STATE LAW BEING PROPOSED JUST TO ALLOW ANY THIRD PARTY, EVEN NOT LICENSED, TO DO BUSINESS OR TO BE, LIKE, REVIEWING PLANS [01:30:01] AND GET INSPECTIONS OR TAKING THE FUNCTION OF THE CITY. IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. I HOPE WE'RE NOT GOING THERE THOUGH. UM, CAN WE ADVANCE TWO SLICES PLEASE? I DO HAVE SOMETHING VERY CHEERFUL TO SHARE, LIKE THIS ACCOMPLIMENTS. UH, AS I SAID, WE ELEVATE DALLAS TO THE NATIONAL LEVEL. WE HAVE DONE A LOT OF BREAKTHROUGH WORK AND SOME OF THE WORK GETTING RECOGNIZED, UH, JUST, UH, LATE LAST YEAR. UH, WE HAVE ACTUALLY, UM, THIS YEAR, UH, WE, WE HAVE RECEIVED, UH, UH, URBAN LAND INSTITUTE AWARD, THREE AWARDS. TWO OF THEM ARE, UH, FINALISTS. UH, ONE OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY WINNING, UH, THE AWARD, UM, A WINNER, UH, UH, UNDER THE CATEGORY OF NEXT BIG IDEAS. AND THIS IS THE BUILDING CODE RELATED REFORM WE DID. UH, SO IN THE CITY OF DALLAS BEFORE THE REFORM, UH, A TRIPLE X WAS TREATED THE SAME WAY. IT'S THE SAME BUILDING YOU APPLY THE SAME BUILDING CODE AS THE TALLEST BUILDING IN DALLAS, WHICH IS BANK OF AMERICA. UM, TRIPLE X PROBABLY CLOSER TO A DUPLEX, RIGHT? SO THAT CHANGE HAS BEEN MADE, UH, IN, UH, THE SPRING OF LAST YEAR. CITY COUNCIL PASSED ORDINANCE ALLOWING UP TO EIGHT UNITS BE TREATED AS RESIDENTIAL CODE. AND THAT IS A BREAKTHROUGH WORK AND WHY WE'RE THE FIRST CITY IN THE COUNTRY HAVE GONE THAT FAR. SO IT'S GOT A, A WORD, A RECOGNITION. SO THAT'S REALLY, UH, KUDOS TO EVERYBODY WHO WORK ON THIS. THERE'S A LOT OF STAFFING WORKING ON THAT. UM, AND THOSE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS JUST SOME PICTURES THAT WE WERE AT A NATIONAL AND THE STATE LEVEL CONFERENCES SPEAKING ABOUT, UH, THE WORK WE'VE BEEN DOING. THE CITY DALLAS GET THE RECOGNITIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. UM, THE NEXT TWO SLIDES, UH, JUST GO THROUGH QUICKLY DALLAS ZONING REFORM, NEXT SLIDE. UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SEPARATE PRESENTATION JUST ON THIS SUBJECT, SO I'M NOT GONNA SPEND MUCH TIME ON THAT. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE, THE NEW YEAR, UM, GOALS, UH, FOR THE NEW YEAR. 2026, 2027, WE HAVE FIVE DEPARTMENT GOALS, UM, THIS YEAR. UH, OBVIOUSLY, UH, DALLAS ZONING REFORM IS ALSO ON TOP. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE NUMBER ONE GOAL THIS YEAR. IT'S, UH, VERY IMPORTANT. WE ONLY DO ZONING REFORM EVERY SO OFTEN. THE LAST ONE IS IN THE 1980S, SO THAT 40 YEARS AGO. AND BEFORE THAT ONE, 1960. UH, ACTUALLY WE STILL OPERATE BASICALLY ON THE 1960S FRAMEWORK. IT'S VERY OLD, OUTDATED, SO THAT'S WHY CITY COUNCIL GAVE US, UM, $2 MILLION TO HIRE CONSULTANT AND THE CONSULTANT BEEN WORKING ON THAT FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS. UH, AGAIN, IN TWO DAYS, WE'RE GOING TO RELEASE A DRAFT REPORT. HOPEFULLY YOU'LL HAVE SOME OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE LOOK AT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE AS A BOARD MEMBER AND ALSO FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF YOUR, UH, PROFESSION. UM, SO WHEN WE DO A ZONING CODE, WE ALSO LOOK AT SOME OF THE, YOUR CASES, SEE WHERE EVERYBODY'S ASKING FOR EXCEPTION IS ALWAYS GET APPROVED. IF THAT'S THE CASE, THAT LAW PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. SO WHEN, AND, AND THE CONSULTANT LOOKING AT THE ZONING REFORM, THEY DO, I BELIEVE THEY WORK WITH CAMICA TEAM A, A, A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND LOOK AT ALL OF YOUR CASES TO SEE IS THIS REOCCURRING? IS THAT SOMETHING IT JUST LIKE IN THERE AND, UH, NEEDS TO BE CHANGED? UM, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S ONE OF THE FACTORS, UM, IN THE ZONING REFORM. UM, AND NUMBER THREE, WE ARE GOING TO STRENGTHEN OUR PARTNERSHIP, IMPROVE DEPARTMENT EXPERIENCE. THIS IS REALLY TRYING TO FOCUS ON THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE SIDE, HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THAT EXPERIENCE, HOW WE CAN PARTNER WITH OUR, UM, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS, WITH OTHER DEPARTMENT, DIFFERENT AGENCIES, UM, TO, UH, GO BEYOND EVEN OUR DEPARTMENT. AND NUMBER FOUR, THE INVESTING PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION EXPERIENCE THAT COME BACK TO TRAINING, ALL OF THAT THIS YEAR. WE'RE GONNA SPEND, UH, SOME EFFORT AND MAKE SURE OUR STAFF ARE FULLY TRAINED, MAKE SURE OUR STAFF HAVE, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND CONFERENCES, TO HAVE SOME PROFESSIONAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES. VERY IMPORTANT. WE INVEST IN OUR STAFF, 385 OF THEM. VERY IMPORTANT. AND THEN LAST ONE IS MODERN TECHNOLOGY DATA AND THE HUMAN-CENTERED INNOVATION. WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT, UM, AI, HOW WE USE AI. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA STAY. I'M TALKING TO OTHER PLANNING DEPARTMENT. THEY'RE ALL IN THE SAME KIND OF, WE'RE LOOKING AT AI, USING AI TO IMPROVE EFFICIENCY. HOWEVER, WE'RE NOT USING AI TO REPLACE OUR PEOPLE. WE'RE USING AI TO MAKE, UM, IMPROVE EFFICIENCY, MAKE IMPROVEMENT ON ACCURACY. ALSO, WE CAN MAKE LESS MISTAKE BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL. UM, THAT'S BASICALLY MY FIVE GOALS FOR THIS YEAR. AND I'M GOING TO COME BACK NEXT YEAR TO [01:35:01] GIVE YOU A REPORT HOW WE'RE DOING WITH THESE FIVE GOALS. UM, AND, UH, KAMIKA HAS A LOT TO DISCUSS, UM, TODAY ABOUT ALL THE IMPROVEMENT THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. I WANT TO GIVE YOU A BIG SHOUT OUT. I HAVE BEEN WORKING IN COLUMBUS, OHIO, ILLINOIS, IN THE CHICAGO AREA, LOUISVILLE AND THE SUBURBAN CITY. AND THIS IS MY FIFTH, UH, GOVERNMENT AGENCY I WORKED, UH, FOR. AND I TELL YOUR BOARD ADJUSTMENT, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING UNDER 60 DAYS, THE PROCESS FROM THE DAY OF THE APPLICATION COMPLETE TO THE DECISION MAKING. THIS IS, YOU ARE LEADING THE COUNTRY. WE ARE LEADING THE COUNTRY ON THE BOARD ADJUSTMENT PROCESS. SO THANK YOU. AND MS. LOU, FIVE YEARS AGO, IT WAS 93 DAYS. OH, WOW. ACTUALLY, THAT'S TYPICAL. UH, FIVE YEARS. I WOULD SAY - OOH. UH, THERE WAS TYPICAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BOARD ADJUSTMENT CASE. NOT HERE. SO PEOPLE ASK YOU, 90 DAYS. 93 DAYS, FIVE YEARS AGO. YOU ARE UNDER... YEAH, IT WAS UNDER 60 DAYS. THAT'S AMAZING. BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR NOTICES. THESE ARE REQUIRED, RIGHT? CERTIFIES THE STATUTE. SO YOU CANNOT... THERE MIGHT BE A LIMIT HOW LOW YOU CAN... LIKE THE 108 DAYS RIGHT NOW FOR NEW PERMIT. I THINK MY NEXT GOAL WILL BE KEEP IT UNDER 100. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH ROOM I CAN SHRINK EVEN FOR THE PROBABLY STILL ROOM, BUT IF I CAN KEEP IT UNDER 100 FROM 286 DAYS THREE YEARS AGO, IT'S A BIG ACCOMPLISHMENT FOR THE DEPARTMENT. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LISTENING TO ME. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. LIU BEFORE SHE DEPARTS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. LIU. WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR LEADERSHIP AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU AND YOUR TEAM. THANK YOU FOR YOUR GREAT WORK. THANK YOU. OKAY. UH, MS. WILLIAMS, YOU'RE GONNA REDO THE TAGS. REMEMBER THOSE FOR THOSE TWO? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OUR NEXT GUEST SPEAKER THIS MORNING IS BARON ELIASON. HE WAS THE INTERIM INSPECTOR GENERAL. HE IS NOT ANYMORE. HE WAS APPOINTED LAST WEEK BY THE CITY COUNCIL AS THE INSPECTOR GENERAL. UM, AND HE'S GONNA PRESENT THIS MORNING ON ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST. UM, HE HAS A DEEP SLIDE DECK FOR US, BUT Y - WE'RE GONNA BE EXPEDITIOUS BUT THOROUGH. AND I'M GONNA ENCOURAGE, AS HE GOES THROUGH HIS SL- SLIDE DECK, FOR ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS FOR HIM TO GET MY ATTENTION SO WE CAN ASK HIM. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE ARE REGULARLY INFORMED, ENGAGED AS IT RELATES TO THE, THE ISSUES OF ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST. MARY'S JUST PUTTING THE TAGS WITH CORRECTLY. WE'RE, UH, SO FORTH. ALL RIGHT. BARON, GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING. UH, I AM BARON ELIASON, YOUR INSPECTOR GENERAL, AS OF LAST WEDNESDAY, AND I'M SO HAPPY TO SAY THAT AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT, UH, ETHICS WITH YOU. IT IS SO IMPORTANT, UM, BY WAY OF INTRODUCTION AND WHO I AM. I LIVE KINDA IN THE MIDDLE OF DALLAS, NORTHWEST HIGHWAY, UH, AROUND NORTH PARK, THAT AREA OF TOWN. AND I'VE GOT A, UH, A VARIETY OF THINGS I'VE DONE. I STARTED OFF AS A CIVIL LITIGATOR. I'VE BEEN A PASTOR. I'VE BEEN A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY. I'VE BEEN WITH THE OIG HERE NOW FOR FOUR YEARS, AND I HAVE A LOT OF HOBBIES, UH, CHESS GUITAR AND SAILING. AND I CAN TELL YOU ACROSS HOBBIES, ACROSS VOCATIONS THAT I'VE HAD, UH, EVERYWHERE I HAVE BEEN, IT IS THE LITTLE THINGS THAT MATTER. A THEME THIS MORNING HAS BEEN GETTING NUMBERS DOWN. A THEME THIS MORNING HAS BEEN, UH, HOW MANY APPEALS DID WE HAVE? WE'VE JUST HAD ONE, AND THAT IS, UH, TREMENDOUS AND IMPORTANT. AND HOW DID YOU GET THERE? IT'S LITTLE THINGS. AND YOU KNOW WHAT ONE OF THOSE LITTLE THINGS IS? IT'S ETHICS. OH, I BEG YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO ME AS WE RUN THROUGH THESE SLIDES BECAUSE I KNOW, UH, ETHICS IS MAYBE NOT ALWAYS THE MOST EXCITING THING IN THE WORLD UNTIL, AS THE LITIGATORS CAN TELL YOU, YOU GET TO THAT ONE LITTLE RULE, AND THEN EVERYTHING IN THAT RULE BECOMES VERY, VERY INTERESTING TO YOU. NOW, I'VE TAKEN THE SLIDE DECK THAT YOU HAVE, WHICH IS VERY ROBUST AND, AND LONG, AND I'VE SHORTENED IT DOWN CONSIDERABLY. AND WHAT MY GOAL TO... IS THIS MORNING TO DO WITH YOU IS, IS TO HIT ON THE LITTLE THINGS, BUT I'M JUST GONNA HIT ON THEM. WE'RE GONNA PUNCH THROUGH THESE. WE'LL TAKE QUESTIONS AS WE GO. BUT THE IDEA IS IF, IF I HANG UP ON ONE OF THESE RULES AND I PUNCH IT AND YOU WANT MORE, YOU ARE INVITED TO, UH, ASK ABOUT THAT. SO IF THAT SOUNDS GOOD, I'LL CONTINUE ON - YES, SIR. WITH THE PRESENTATION AND THANKS AGAIN FOR HAVING ME. UM, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADVANCE MY SLIDE HERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT WANTING TO GO. SO WHILE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT, I WILL, UH, TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE OFFICE AND WHAT WE DO. WELL, DO YOU NEED SOMEONE TO CLICK IT THROUGH OR YOU ARE... IT, IT'S ON OUR SCREEN. IT'S JUST YOUR COVER PAGE. YEAH, AND IT IS NOT... THERE WE GO. I THINK IT JUST ADVANCED. OKAY, THERE YOU GO. SO HERE WE GO. THIS IS WHAT THE OFFICE DOES. WE DEFEND THE CITY FROM FRAUD, WASTE, ETHICS, ABUSE, UH, AND, UM, THAT'S IT. THOSE [01:40:01] FOUR THINGS. FRAUD, WASTE, ABUSE, AND ETHICS VIOLATIONS. FRAUD OR CRIMES, UH, ETHICS IS IN THE ETHICS CODE, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA COVER TODAY. WASTE IS WHEN MONEY'S JUST FLYING OUT THE DOOR, AND ABUSE IS WHEN THERE'S A PROCESS AND PEOPLE ARE WORKING AROUND IT. AND ALL OF THOSE FOUR THINGS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THE CITY. AND I DON'T EXPECT THAT THERE'S ANYBODY HERE ON THE, THE BOARD THAT IS JUST REALLY INTERESTED IN WASTE ABUSE OR VIOLATING THE ETHICS CODE OR COMMITTING SOME KIND OF CRIME. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU KNOW THESE THINGS SO THAT WHEN YOU SEE THEM, YOU CAN BE A PART OF THE TEAM BECAUSE ETHICS IS A TEAM SPORT. AND SO I'M HAPPY TO HAVE YOU ON THE TEAM. NOW, THE CODE OF ETHICS IS ABOUT 90 PAGES LONG, AND I WANNA ORIENT YOU TO IT SO THAT IT'S QUICKER FOR YOU TO FIND THINGS. UM, REALLY, 95% OF THE RULES THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ARE IN THE FIRST THREE ARTICLES OR CHAPTERS OF THE CODE. THAT'S IT. NOW, IF YOU RECEIVE GIFTS OR SOMEHOW COME ACROSS A DONATION, NEED TO TRAVEL FOR THE BOARD, UH, ARTICLE SIX THAT COMES INTO PLAY, BUT REALLY IT'S JUST THE FIRST THREE. AND LISTEN, THERE'S ONLY 25 RULES IN THOSE FIRST THREE ARTICLES. SO IF YOU, YOU WOULD DO THE BOARD A HUGE FAVOR IF, IF ONE NIGHT EACH, FOR THE NEXT MONTH, YOU'D PICK ONE RULE AND JUST SKIM IT. YOUR SENSE OF THE CODE WILL GROW TREMENDOUSLY AND SO WILL YOUR SERVICE TO THE CITY BY DOING THAT. BUT JUST REMEMBER, ETHICS IS AS EASY AS ONE, TWO, THREE. I'VE GOT THIS RESOURCE. I'LL, I'LL HAND IT OUT TO YOU LATER. HOPEFULLY MANY OF YOU HAVE IT. IT'S CALLED THE POCKET REFERENCE GUIDE. WHAT IT WILL DO IS WHEN YOU DO RUN INTO SOMETHING IN THE CODE, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO READ THROUGH EVERY RULE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A TABLE OF CONTENTS, YOU CAN TAKE OUT THIS POCKET REFERENCE GUIDE. IT'S GONNA DIRECT YOU TO THE RULE THAT YOU NEED. SO I'LL PASS THAT OUT, UH, WHEN WE ARE FINISHED. NOW, THE NEXT SECTION OF THIS PRESENTATION, I CALL IT GOOD TO KNOWS. AND THAT'S BECAUSE EVERYBODY, WHETHER BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, THERE ARE JUST THINGS THAT ARE GOOD TO KNOW ABOUT THE PARTICULAR BOARD OR COMMISSION THAT YOU SERVE ON BECAUSE THERE ARE JUST NUANCES, UH, ABOUT YOUR POSITION THAT TAKE YOU IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS WITH THE CODE. AND SO IF... I THINK, UH, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW. FIRST, OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE CITY OFFICIALS, OKAY, AND YOU ARE APPOINTED TO A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY, BUT, UH, IT'S INTERESTING THAT NOT EVERYTHING YOU DO IS QUASI-JUDICIAL. SOME OF IT IS ADVISORY. AND SO WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THAT AFFECTS SOME OF THE RULES. SO THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU ARE ON A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY. YOU ARE ALSO SOMETHING CALLED, UNDER THE CODE, IT'S BURIED IN THERE, AND IT'S NOT IN, IN ARTICLES ONE, TWO, AND THREE. UH, SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE FIVE PERCENTERS. YOU ARE ALSO SOMETHING CALLED A DESIGNATED CITY OFFICIAL. AND WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH IS THE FILING OF FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES. AND SO THE RULES ARE, ARE ON THIS SLIDE HERE. UM, IF YOU WERE NEW TO THE BOARD, THIS FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE IS DUE BEFORE ACCEPTING YOUR INITIAL, UH, UM, APPOINTMENT. IT IS A SWORN REPORT. AND GET THIS, THIS IS EASY TO MISS, BUT WHEN YOU READ THE RULES IN THE CODE ABOUT THESE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES, FAMILY MEMBERS ARE INCLUDED IN THAT. AND FAMILY MEMBERS HAS A SPECIAL DEFINITION UNDER REPORTING. IT'S NOT RELATIVES AS THE DEFINITION THAT CO - THAT IS COVERED MOST OF THE TIME IN THE CODE. SO BE AWARE OF THAT. TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. UH, THEY'RE NOT DUE AGAIN UNLESS YOU'RE A NEW MEMBER UNTIL, UH, I THINK IT... I BELIEVE IT'S APRIL, BUT IT'S IN THERE. YOU'VE GOT TIME AND YOU'RE GONNA GET NOTICE ABOUT THAT. UH, BY THE WAY, YOU CAN FIND MOST OF THESE FORMS THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IN THIS GOOD TO KNOW SECTION ON THE CITY SECRETARY'S WEBSITE. SHE HAS A FORM SECTION AND THERE'S TWO PLACES THERE, BOARD AND COMMISSIONS AND ETHICS, AND THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GONNA FIND THESE FORMS. SECOND THING, GOOD TO KNOW, ETHIC PL - ETHICS PLEDGE, THAT IS DUE WITHIN 30 DAYS OF APPOINTMENT. SO IF YOU'RE NEW OR YOU JUST, YOU'VE NEVER DONE IT, GET IT, FILL IT OUT, TURN THAT IN. PARDON ME, LET ME PICK THIS UP. UH, AND THEN QUARTERLY GIFT REPORTS. THIS IS INTERESTING, UH, BECAUSE THERE'S A SPECIAL RULE THAT APPLIES TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE DESIGNATED CITY OFFICIALS. AND THE RULE IS THIS, WHETHER YOU GET A GIFT OR NOT, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO FILE A GIFT REPORT. AND THERE'S A BOX ON THERE. WE HAVE A NEW FORM WE JUST DESIGNED THIS YEAR WHERE YOU CAN SAY, "I DIDN'T GET A GIFT," AND YOU'RE DONE. BUT JUST RECOGNIZE THAT IN YOUR ROLE, UH, ON THIS PARTICULAR BOARD, YOU WILL OWE THAT, UH, REPORT. THAT REPORT IS DUE QUARTERLY. OKAY? THOSE ARE ALL THE GOOD TO KNOWS, AND WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM MR. QUINT. MR. QUINN HAS A QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE RECEIVED A, A... WHEN ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT? WHAT, WHAT MONTH AND WHAT QUARTER? ARE WE GIVEN NOTICE THAT, "HEY, YOU GOTTA DO THIS BECAUSE I WOULD WANT TO..." SO, [01:45:01] IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND THERE HAS BEEN A TRANSITION, SO JUST RELAX, UH, ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU DIDN'T... UH, SO I'M GONNA GET YOU UP TO SPEED RIGHT NOW. THE TRANSITION HAS BEEN THIS. UH, IT WAS THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE THAT WAS GIVING THOSE NOTICES ABOUT YOU HAVE TO FILE A QUARTERLY GIFT REPORT OR DONATIONS OR TRAVEL. THAT RESPONSIBILITY HAS, HAS SWITCHED OVER RECENTLY, UH, TO THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL, SO WE'RE DEVELOPING THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW TO GET THOSE NOTICES OUT. QUARTERLY REPORTS ARE BASED ON A CALENDAR YEAR. I... WELL, IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S... WHETHER IT'S CALENDAR OR FISCAL, IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME. IT, IT'S CALENDAR BECAUSE IT'S 30 DAYS AFTER THE END OF THE QUARTER. IT'S GONNA BE THE THREE, SAME THREE MONTHS AT, AT ANY RATE. AND, UH, THE CITY SECRETARY HAS THE FORM, AND THEY WILL KEEP THE RECORDS. WE WILL GIVE THE NOTICES. BUT, UH, BECAUSE WE'RE IN TRANSITION, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE CHASING DOWN EVERY BOARD AND COMMISSION OFFICER THAT MAYBE DIDN'T FILE ONE, BUT NOW YOU KNOW. AND, UH, EMAIL ME AND I'LL MAKE SURE YOU GET A COPY OF THE FORM AND, AND, UH, YOU'LL BE IN GOOD SHAPE. AND THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS ON ONE OF THESE SLIDES? I CAN'T REMEMBER. IT'S AT THE TAIL END. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU'LL PAUSE THERE FOR EVERYONE TO DO THAT. OKAY. I WILL. AND, UH, AS YOU KNOW, ALL THE EMAILS HERE ARE BASED ON FIRST DOT LAST NAME@DALLAS.COM. SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA DO A, A QUICK SURVEY JUST TO F - GET A REALITY CHECK. YEAH. WHO ALL HAS BEEN S - RECEIVING AND SENDING IN THEIR QUARTERLY, UH, GIFT REPORT? I HAVE. OKAY. THIS IS INTERESTING. REALLY? SO CAMPBELL KNOW? ROGERS KNOW? WOW. SO IT'S, IT'S THE NEWER MEMBERS, I THINK. YEAH. WELL, CAM, YOU'VE BEEN HERE A YEAR. ROGERS GETS A PASTOR NEW. WOW. OKAY. WELL, THAT... HE'S EXEMPTED YOU, SO YOU'RE FINE. I APPRECIATE THE HONESTY. SO, OKAY, WELL, IT'S GOOD THAT YOU KNOW THINGS HAVE FALLEN THROUGH THE CRACKS SO YOU CAN CLOSE THAT. EXACTLY. AND THAT'S WHAT I GET TO START DOING NOW. I'M SO HAPPY TO SAY. ARE YOU GONNA SPEAK ALSO TO THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT? WELL, I - YOU NEED TO SPEAK TO THAT TOO, BECAUSE THEY NEED TO FILL THAT OUT AS WELL. I DID... THAT, THAT'S WHAT I DID. I'LL GO BACK IN THE SLIDES, BUT I DID TALK ABOUT THAT ONE. OKAY. SO IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE BOARD, LIKE TECHNICALLY IN THE CODE, IT IS DUE BEFORE YOU'RE EVEN APPOINTED. AFTER THAT, IT'S DUE, UH, I BELIEVE ON APRIL 30TH. YOU'LL DEFINITELY GET NOTICE ABOUT THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT. AND THAT'S THE ONE WHERE I WAS TALKING ABOUT BE AWARE THAT IT'S NOT JUST YOU. UH, IT, IT ALSO INCLUDES FAMILY MEMBERS AND THERE'S A SPECIAL DEFINITION OF, YOU KNOW, HOW FAR OUT ON THE FAMILY TREE YOU'RE GONNA GO ON THAT, UH, ANNUAL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE. OKAY. SO WHEN WE GET TO THE END, I'LL MAKE SURE WE PAUSE SO YOU GET HIS EMAIL ADDRESS SO YOU CAN, UH, THE THREE OF YOU CAN EMAIL HIM TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE IN THE LOOP FOR THE, FOR GETTING ON THAT DISTRIBUTION. OKAY. YOU READY TO CONTINUE? NOW WE'RE GONNA GET INTO SOME NITTY-GRITTY, UH, RULES HERE. NOW, BECAUSE I'VE TRUNCATED THIS PRESENTATION, UH, YOU MAY... IF YOU'RE JUST GOING SLIDE BY SLIDE, IF YOU GET TO ONE THAT I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT, THAT'S BECAUSE I'VE MOVED ON FROM THAT ONE TO GET TO THE NEXT ONE, SO JUST COME ON DOWN. UH, I'LL DO IT BY ARTICLES. UM, REMEMBER, MOSTLY WE'RE TALKING HERE ABOUT ARTICLES ONE, TWO, AND THREE. ARTICLE ONE SETS THE STAGE, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT. IT'S VERY BIG PICTURE. AND IN FACT, THE FIRST SECTION OF THE ARTICLE DOESN'T EVEN CREATE, UH, ACTIONABLE THINGS. IT JUST TALKS ABOUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE AN OFFICER AND TO BE ETHICAL ABOUT THAT HERE IN THE CODE? SO THERE'S 12A1, AND NONE OF THIS SHOULD BE A SURPRISE TO ANYBODY. WE, WE WANT THE WORK IN THE CITY GOVERNMENT, WHICH OF COURSE IS DIFFERENT THAN WORK IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. AND LET ME JUST SAY, FOR THOSE THAT WORK IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, SOMETIMES THE, THE, THE TRANSITION OVER TO GOVERNMENT WORK IS DIFFICULT AND THEY WANNA BRING, UH, THE, THE WAYS AND MEANS OF WORKING IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR INTO GOVERNMENT, AND THAT'S NOT A GREAT STARTING PLACE FOR YOU. SO DO, DO RECOGNIZE YOU'RE IN CITY GOVERNMENT, TAX DOLLARS ARE AT STAKE. YOU, YOU, YOU KNOW THE DRILL. I'M, YOU'RE NOT NEWBIES BY ANY MEANS, BUT I JUST WANNA SAY IT'S DIFFERENT, BUT NONE OF THIS SHOULD BE SURPRISING. FOLLOW PROCEDURES. UH, DON'T, DON'T BE INVOLVED IN THINGS WHERE THEY'RE, UH, WHERE YOU'RE IN, UH, HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST WITH PROPER DISCHARGE OF DUTIES. UH, THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL GAIN, RIGHT? THIS IS ABOUT THE CITY. UH, COMMITMENT BEYOND... I'VE GOT THIS, UH, WINDOW RIGHT IN MY WAY. LET ME MOVE THIS OVER IF I CAN. THERE WE GO. COMMITMENT BEYOND SELF. YOU... I MEAN, THAT JUST DEFINES WHY YOU'RE HERE AND, AND SERVING IN THE WAYS THAT YOU DO. ACCOUNTABILITY, TRUTHFULNESS, FAIRNESS. SO ALL OF THAT, IT, IT SETS THE STAGE [01:50:01] FOR WHAT IS ETHICS ABOUT IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS WHERE WE'RE WORKING IN CITY GOVERNMENT. THE NEXT SECTION OF THE CODE IS, UH, REALLY DEFINITIONS. AND IN ANY LEGAL, UH, DOCUMENT, DEFINITIONS ARE CRITICAL TO UNDERSTANDING HOW THAT DOCUMENT'S GOING TO WORK. AND THAT IS NO DIFFERENT IN THE CODE OF ETHICS. I PUT SOME HERE THAT ARE MAYBE OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO YOU, AND I WENT AHEAD AND SPELLED OUT THE DEFINITION OF RELATIVES, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN FAMILY MEMBERS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, BUT RELATIVES, JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE. UH, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME PEOPLE IN YOUR FAMILY THAT ARE ON THAT LIST AND SOME THAT ARE NOT. IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHEN IT COMES TO LOBBYING IN THE CITY, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE EVER GONNA BUMP INTO, BUT THERE'S A WHOLE NOTHER SET OF DEFINITIONS IN THE LOBBYING SECTION THAT APPLIES, AND I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT. ARTICLE TWO, WE'RE MOVING ON, AND NOW WE GET TO CONDUCT. AND THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK ABOUT CONDUCT WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT CODES OF ETHICS. FIRST THING IS THE DUTY THAT YOU OWE. IT'S THE HIGHEST DUTY UNDER THE LAW, DOCTORS TO PATIENTS, LAWYERS TO CLIENTS, FIDUCIARY DUTY TO THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF DALLAS. AS WAS SAID RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING, EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN APPOINTED BY A, A PARTICULAR COUNCIL MEMBER IN A PARTICULAR DISTRICT, YOU WORK FOR THE CITY. AND I DO AS A CITY OFFICIAL. I WORK FOR THE CITY. SO IT'S GOOD TO KNOW AND TO RECOGNIZE IT'S THE HIGHEST ONE. I'M SURE YOU ALL ARE F - ALL, ALL FAMILIAR WITH THAT TERM. UH, ARTICLE TWO DEALS WITH BEHAVIOR, AND ACTUALLY IN THE CODE OF ETHICS, UH, THIS ONE HAS THREE RULES. I'M GONNA GO THROUGH ALL THREE BECAUSE THEY REALLY DO APPLY TO BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS PROBABLY MORE THAN, THAN ANYONE ELSE. IT JUST TOUCHES ON YOU. AND I CAN SAY, UH, HAVING BEEN IN THE OFFICE FOR A WHILE, THIS, THIS IS ONE OF THE HOTBEDS FOR THE LITTLE THINGS GOING WRONG THAT CAN RESULT IN BIG PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD. SO THE FIRST PART, UH, SOUNDS ALMOST LIKE THE, THE ARTICLE ONE STUFF. OPERATE WITH INTEGRITY, OPERATE IN A MANNER THAT MERITS TRUST, UPHOLD LAWS, TREAT OTHERS WITH RESPECT, RESPONSIBLY MANAGE TAXPAYER RESOURCES, AND TAKE NO ACTIONS THAT COULD BENEFIT YOU OR RELATIVE TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE CITY. IN OTHER WORDS, KEEP YOUR HANDS CLEAN, FIDUCIARY DUTY, WORK FOR THE CITY, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. NOW, THERE'S THIS ONE RULE IN THERE THAT'S LIKE NO OTHER RULE IN THE CODE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A CONFLICT, DOES NOT DESCRIBE A CONFLICT. IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE, UM, VIOLATION, BUT IT DESCRIBES A BEST PRACTICE. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CODE, YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IT LIKE THAT. YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IT IN THIS SECTION, GOOD BEHAVIOR, SQUARE DEALS, AND BEST PRACTICES. THIS ONE IS A BEST PRACTICE. AND WHAT IT SAYS IS YOU REPRESENT THE CITY JUST AS MUCH AS, UH, YOU KIND OF HAVE YOUR OWN LIFE AND REPRESENT YOURSELF. AND SO IT SAYS IN YOUR PERSONAL AND IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL ACTIONS, IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR HAND'S IN THE COOKIE JAR, SO TO SPEAK, CAREFULLY CONSIDER THE WAY THAT IT'S HAPPENING, AND MAYBE THERE'S, THERE'S A DIFFERENT WAY TO DO THAT. NOW, AGAIN, IT'S NOT SAYING YOU HAVE A CONFLICT, AND IT'S NOT SAYING THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS A VIOLATION, BUT MAYBE IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT. IT FEELS ICKY IN SOME WAY, DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST IN TERMS OF THE WAY IT LOOKS. THEN THE CODE SAYS, CAREFULLY CONSIDER, MAYBE THERE'S A DIFFERENT WAY YOU CAN DO THAT. SO THAT... THERE'S NO OTHER RULE LIKE THAT ONE IN THE CODE. AND NOW WE GET TO THE NITTY-GRITTY OF THE BEHAVIOR ISSUES, UH, THAT ARE A HOTBED OF ACTIVITY IN THE IG'S OFFICE. FIRST ONE HAS TO DO WITH JUST COMMON RESPECT. WE'VE GOT TO TREAT ONE ANOTHER WITH RESPECT. WE WANNA WANNA DEAL WITH ONE ANOTHER IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE WOULD WANT THEM TO DEAL WITH US. AND SO THE CODE ACTUALLY USES THESE TERMS. WE GOTTA AVOID ABUSIVE, BELLIGERENT, CRUDE, DEROGATORY, IMPERTINENT, PROFANE, SLANDEROUS, THREATENING COMMENTS OR ACTIONS. PERSONAL ATTACKS OF CHARACTER, INTEGRITY, OR MOTIVES OF OTHERS. ALL THOSE THINGS ARE OFF THE TABLE, AND I UNDERSTAND. LISTEN, EVERY WEEKEND I'M OUT THERE IN A SAILBOAT RACE BUMPING BOATS WITH OTHER PEOPLE. I UNDERSTAND THE TEMPTATION IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT TO GO THERE. YOU GOTTA RESIST IT BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT THE CITY AND YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT IN THESE ROLES. SO I PUT IN RED THERE, ANYTIME YOU, YOU FEEL LIKE SAYING YOU ARE OR YOU ARE A, TAKE A DEEP BREATH. HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THAT YET? I W... IN MY FIVE YEARS, I'VE NOT YET. I'M GONNA LOOK AND SEE IF I GET A NOD YET. I... YEAH. A DEROGATORY [01:55:01] COMMENT TO ANOTHER MEMBER BY A MEMBER, THAT'S WHAT HE'S SPEAKING TO. I, I'VE NOT SEEN THAT. OKAY, THIS IS GOOD. GOOD. I'M HAPPY TO HEAR IT. IF YOU SEE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE - HAS SOMETHING. WHAT WAS THAT NOW? UNDERNEATH YOUR BREATH? I'M JUST KIDDING. ALWAYS REMEMBER WE'RE BEING AUDIO VIDEOTAPED. YEAH. GO AHEAD. THANK YOU. AND THAT IS MUSIC TO MY EARS AND I'M HAPPY TO HEAR IT. ALWAYS REMEMBER IF YOU SEE IT, IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DEAL WITH, UH, WHETHER IT'S ON YOUR BOARD OR SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CITY. NOW HERE'S... THE NEXT PART IS PART TWO OF THIS WHOLE SECTION ON GOOD BEHAVIOR AND CIVILITY. UM, THIS ONE HAS TO DO THE, WITH THE INTERACTION BETWEEN EMPLOYEES AND CITY OFFICIALS. AND REMEMBER, YOU ARE CITY OFFICIALS. THIS IS ONE THAT, UH, GOT ON MY RADAR WHEN I WAS THE INTERIM INSPECTOR GENERAL, BECAUSE I MOVED FROM BEING AN EMPLOYEE TO BEING A CITY OFFICIAL. AND NOW, OF COURSE, I AM, UH, AN APPOINTED CITY OFFICIAL, BUT I KNEW A LOT OF EMPLOYEES. I KNEW WHO TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL WHEN I NEEDED SOMETHING. AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THIS, THERE'S THIS LITTLE RULE HERE THAT SAYS THERE'S A WAY TO DO THAT AND THERE'S A WAY THAT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT. AND IT WAS REAL AWKWARD FOR ME, BUT I'VE, I'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS RULE AND WE ALL NEED TO DO IT. THERE'S GOOD REASON FOR IT, AND I'LL EXPLAIN THE RULE HERE SHORTLY. BUT WHEN CITY OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES ARE, WANT TO WORK WITH ONE ANOTHER, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'VE ALREADY GOT AN ARRANGEMENT MADE WITH THE CITY SECRETARY. SO FOR EXAMPLE, I WORK, UH, WITH A PERSON IN ITS ON PROCURING SOFTWARE. THAT'S ALREADY ARRANGED. I DON'T NEED TO FOLLOW THIS RULE, UH, WITH THAT PERSON BECAUSE THE CITY MANAGER BASICALLY SAID, "HEY, THIS IS YOUR PERSON WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF QUESTION." BUT WHEN I'M WORKING ON OTHER PROJECTS AND THE CITY MANAGER HASN'T SAID, "HERE'S THE PERSON YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK WITH," THAT'S WHEN I NEED TO FOLLOW THIS. AND SO HERE'S WHAT IT IS. IF I NEED HELP WITH A PROJECT, IF I NEED INFORMATION FROM THE CITY, I NEED TO TALK TO TWO PEOPLE FIRST. GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT'S THE CITY MANAGER. WHY? BECAUSE MOST OF THE 13,000 PEOPLE IN THE CITY WORK FOR THE CITY MANAGER. BUT IF THEY WORK FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY OR THEY WORK FOR ME OR, UM, THEY WORK FOR THE CITY SECRETARY, THAT PERSON. BUT BASICALLY, YOU TALK TO THE CITY SEC - UH, CITY MANAGER AND THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR, AND THEY'RE GONNA FIND THE RIGHT EMPLOYEE THAT'S GONNA BE ABLE TO GET YOU THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED AND, AND THEY'LL STAY ON, STAY ON TOP OF THE PROJECT. SO THAT'S HOW THAT IS SUPPOSED TO GO. THE OTHER PART OF THIS RULE IS HOW, HOW THAT INTERACTION WORKS. AND SO WHAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IS INTERFERE WITH THE WORK OF EMPLOYEES, AND THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM THE CODE, IMPAIR THEIR ABILITY TO IMPLEMENT POLICY OF ALL THINGS, INFLUENCE THEM IN THE MAKING OF RECOMMENDATIONS OR DECISIONS. SO IF IT'S THEIR JOB TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OR DECISION, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF MASSAGING THAT FOR THEM AND TRYING TO PUSH THEM IN A CERTAIN DIR - LET THEM MAKE IT, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT SUPPOSED TO BERATE THEM. NOW, ONE TIME I WENT OVER THIS SLIDE AND SOMEBODY SAID, "DID YOU JUST MAKE THAT STUFF UP?" I SAID, "NO, THESE ARE QUOTES FROM THE CODE." THAT MEANS THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED ENOUGH, NOT NECESSARILY IN THIS BOARD, I'M DOING GENERAL ETHICS PRESENTATION, BUT THEY'VE HAPPENED ENOUGH IN THE CITY THAT CITY COUNCIL AND CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WENT TO ALL THE TROUBLE TO MAKE THIS RULE AND PUT IT IN THERE. SO NOW IF YOU SEE THIS BEING VIOLATED SOMEWHERE, WE'LL TALK ABOUT LATER WHAT YOU DO ABOUT IT. IT LOOKED LIKE... DID... NO? OKAY. NOW WE'RE MOVING ON TO THE THIRD PART OF THE RULE. AND, AND I'LL GIVE YOU, I'LL GIVE EVERYONE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, AND THIS IS MY OWN PERSONAL PROFESSIONAL INTERACTION. SO THE CODE SAYS THAT AS A LEADER OF THIS BOARD, I'M SUPPOSED TO WORK WITH A DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR. THAT WOULD BE MS. LIU, EMILY LIU. SHE HAS REGULARLY SAID, "MR. NEWMAN, JUST DEAL WITH KAMIKA AND MARY WILLIAMS BECAUSE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE THINGS, I ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, I DEAL WITH MS. WILLIAMS, NOT EVERY DAY, BUT A COUPLE TIMES A WEEK. SCHEDULING MEETINGS, AGENDAS, UH, INFORMATION THAT GOES TO THE BOARD AND THAT SORT OF THING. FOR, UM, CASES AND, AND OTHER THINGS THAT COME UP, NOT CASE SPECIFIC, BUT GENERAL, I'LL, I'LL VISIT WITH MS. UH, OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, LIKE PREPARING FOR THIS MEETING AND THAT SORT OF THING. BUT THERE'S A VERY FINE LINE THAT THIS PRIVATE CITIZEN LEADER OF THE BOARD IS," I NOR ANYONE IN THE ROOM HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL A STAFF MEMBER WHAT TO DO. "NOW THEY'RE ALL SMILING RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT A APPOINTEE, A CITY OFFICIAL IN THIS CAPACITY CAN DO. SO I, ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD, MAY ASK QUESTIONS, MAY MAKE SUGGESTIONS. IN A WORKING RELATIONSHIP, WE COME TO AN AGREEMENT OF WHAT'S THE BEST WAY OF ACHIEVING SOMETHING TOGETHER, BUT NEVER DIRECTION. YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL BOARD MEMBER, I CANNOT IMAGINE [02:00:01] AN INSTANCE WHEN YOU'D EVER HAVE A DIRECT CONTACT WITH A STAFF MEMBER, OTHER THAN MAYBE MS. WILLIAMS, ABOUT ATTENDANCE OR ABOUT INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED OR OTHERWISE. NEVER CASE SPECIFIC, EVER. SO THAT'S KIND OF OUR BASIC BOUNDARIES. DOES ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS ON THOSE TYPE OF BOUNDARIES? MR. SLADE. THANK YOU, CHAIR NEWMAN. I THOUGHT THAT IF WE HAD A QUESTION CONCERNING A CONFLICT ISSUE, THAT THAT WOULD BE A TIME LIMIT. YES, THAT WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION. YES, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY AN EXCEPTION. UM, AND I THINK WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING LATER TODAY ABOUT THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AS IT RELATES TO A CASE AND HOW WE DEAL WITH IT. BUT THAT'S ABSOLUTE SECTION. WHEN YOU GET AN AGENDA ITEM AND IT'S ON ONE OF YOUR PANELS AND YOU SAY, "OOH, THAT'S IN THE 200 FEET NOTIFICATION AREA, OR I KNOW THE PROPERTY OWNER, OR SOMEONE'S APPROACHED ME," THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT YOU NOTIFY. I WOULD ASK YOU NOTIFY MYSELF AS CHAIRMAN RIGHT AWAY AND/OR YOUR PANEL LEADER, BUT RIGHT NOW THE CHAIRMAN AND/OR MS. WILLIAMS, I THINK I HAVE A CONFLICT. AND, AND THERE, THERE IS A RECUSAL PROCESS. CORRECT. IT'S 12A24 THAT'S OUTLINED IN THE CODE. YES. SO IN THAT CASE, YES, MR. SLADE, THANK YOU. BUT THERE'S A, THEY'RE VERY DELICATE... ONE SECOND, MS. UH, LAMB. THE VERY DELICATE FIREWALL BECAUSE THE LEADER OF THE STAFF OR THE BOARD IS, IS MS. IS THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, NOT THE CHAIRMAN. AND SHE TAKES CARE OF GIVING THE DIRECTION TO THE STAFF AS APPROPRIATE ALONG THE WAY. UM, SO MS. LAM. I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT THERE MAY BE SOME CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE MAYBE AN APPLICANT MAY REACH OUT TO YOU DIRECTLY OR MAYBE, UH, AN ELECTED OFFICIAL FORGETTING THAT THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD MIGHT REACH OUT TO YOU DIRECTLY ABOUT A PARTICULAR CASE. AND I THINK THAT WOULD, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, CHAIRMAN, THAT WOULD ALSO BE A TIME TO NOTIFY BOTH YOU AND STAFF WHEN, WHEN, WHEN THE PUBLIC REACHES OUT TO YOU ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE OUTSIDE OF THE PUBLIC FORUM. AND THAT, AND, AND THAT HAPPENS. IT COULD HAPPEN IN THE GROCERY STORE, IT COULD HAPPEN AT THE DRY CLEANERS, IT CAN HAPPEN AT A RESTAURANT. AND THE, THE BURDEN IS ON YOU TO NOT ENGAGE IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT A PENDING CASE AND THEN DISCLOSE IF THERE'S BEEN SUBSTANTIVE CONVERSATION. AND THAT STUFF HAPPENS. AND WE'RE ALL HUMANS. WE TRAVEL, WE DO THINGS. UM, YOU CAN'T LIVE IN A SILO, UH, UH, UM, OR AN ASYLUM FOR THAT MATTER. SO YES. OKAY. I WAS JUST REINFORCING THAT THE, OUR RELATIONSHIP AS CHAIRMAN AND BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND THAT I DON'T, I CAN'T REMEMBER EVER CONTACTING YOUR STAFF MEMBERS DIRECTLY. I CALL YOU AND I SAY TH - AND WE HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. OR WITH, UH, CAITLIN AS THE BOARD ATTORNEY, IF THERE'S A LEGAL ISSUE THAT COMES ALONG, THEN SHE DOES THE INTERACTION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. I GENERALLY DON'T UNLESS IT'S HAVING TO DO WITH ONE OF OUR APPEALS, BUT OKAY. SO CONTINUE. AND I THINK THIS WILL BE HELPFUL TO YOU, UH, AS WELL, I- IS THAT THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS, IS VERY CLOSE. AND, AND THE WAY I LOOK AT IT WHEN IT COMES TO ETHICAL THINGS AND FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE, IT'S ALMOST TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN. UH, WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, GETTING ADVICE ABOUT RULES OR DO I HAVE A CONFLICT OR THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, YOU GO TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT. UH, WHAT OUR OFFICE DOES IS, AND, AND HOPEFULLY NOT VERY MUCH, THAT'S, THAT'S THE WHOLE GOAL, GOAL OF ALL THIS, IS WE COME IN AFTERWARDS IF ONE OF THE RULES HAS BEEN VIOLATED. SO IT'S, IT'S A DIFFERENT, BUT WE'RE ON THE SAME, W- W - MAYBE THE SAME ISSUE, BUT YOU GO TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO GET HELP WITH THINGS. NOW, WE'RE ON THE THIRD PART OF THAT CIVILITY SECTION OF THE CODE. AND THIS ONE, UH, IN A WAY IS LIKE THE REVERSE OF THE LAST ONE. NOW YOU'RE MORE LIKE THE PERSON IN THE, IN THE PLACE OF THE EMPLOYEE, UH, AND YOU'VE GOT A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER THAT WANTS, UH, CERTAIN THINGS TO GET DONE. AND BECAUSE THAT INTERACTION HASN'T ALWAYS GONE THE WAY IT SHOULD IN CITY GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE THIS RULE. WELL, AND I, I WILL EDITORIALIZE, UH, AS I'VE DONE INDIVIDUAL ORIENTATION AS EACH, MOST OF YOU HAVE BEEN APPOINTED, BECAUSE I'M NOW ALMOST THE OLDIE HERE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A COUPLE PEOPLE, I GENERALLY SAY TO YOU, "WELL, YOU WON'T BE TALKING TO YOUR COUNCIL PERSON ANYMORE." AND THE APP - E - THE MEMBER SAYS, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN?" I SAYS, "IT'S A GENERAL RULE. YOU SHOULDN'T BE TALKING TO THEM AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE TALKING TO YOU ABOUT ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT." AND IT'S NOT THAT YOU JUST, BECAUSE IT CREATES THE, A GRAY AREA THAT YOU DON'T WANNA BE IN. AND, AND THERE IS THIS RULE, UH, UH, THAT ADDRESSES IT DIRECTLY. SO I'M JUST GONNA READ, READ THROUGH THEM. AND WHERE YOU'RE, I THINK, TYPICALLY GONNA RUN INTO THIS, UH, IN, IN FAIRNESS IS WHEN YOU GET A NEW COUNCIL MEMBER, AND WE'RE ABOUT TO GET FIVE OF THEM AT SOME POINT, UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, AS THEY'RE LEARNING THE RULES, [02:05:01] IT'S IMPORTANT THAT SOMEBODY THAT'S BEEN ON FOR A WHILE UNDERSTANDS THE RULES SO THAT YOU CANNOT CROSS A LINE. MR. FINNEY'S QUESTION. YES. SO IN LIGHT OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID, UH, MR. CHAIR, UM, THIS LAST BULLET POINT IS A LITTLE CONFUSING BECAUSE IT SAYS, "THIS DOES NOT PROHIBIT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS FROM RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM OR PROVIDING INFORMATION TO A BOARD OR COMMISSION MEMBER WORKING TOGETHER WITH BOARD AND COMMISSION MEMBERS ON PROJECTS OR EXPRESSING THEIR OPINIONS TO BOARD AND COMMISSION MEMBERS." SO PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LINE IS BETWEEN WHAT OUR CHAIR JUST SAID AND WHAT THIS IS SAYING. SO THE LINE IS DEFINED, IT'S MADE RIGHT HERE, AND I RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE HAVING BECAUSE IT'S, THIS IS A TOUGH LINE TO DISCERN. AND SO WHAT'S GONNA END UP HAPPENING IS, UH, IF A CASE, UH, A COMPLAINT IS MADE ABOUT AN INTERACTION, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND, AND WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT WAS SAID TO FIGURE OUT IF IT CROSSED THIS LINE. AND THAT IS HONESTLY THE BEST ANSWER I CAN GIVE YOU BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE COMMUNICATION THAT DOESN'T CROSS THE LINE, IT'S JUST NORMAL AND HELPFUL SO WE CAN MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG WHILE AVOIDING THE KIND OF COMMUNICATION THAT WE DON'T WANT, WHICH WOULD BE, UH, COUNCIL MEMBERS, PLEASE, YOU KNOW, DO NOT USE YOUR PERVI - PER - YOUR POSITION TO INFLUENCE THE DELIBERATION OR DECISIONS OF BOARD OR COMMISSION MEMBERS. APPOINT CITY COUNCIL OFFICE STAFF MEMBERS TO BOARDS COMMISSION. UH, PLEASE DON'T DEMAND THAT BOARD OR COMMISSION MEMBERS VOTE AS REQUESTED. SO YOU'VE DEFINITELY CROSSED THE LINE. THREATEN BOARD OR COMMISSION MEMBERS WITH REMOVAL, YOU'VE DEFINITELY CROSSED THE LINE. BUT WITH ALL THINGS IN THE LAW, AND THIS IS WHAT'S, WHAT MAKES LITIGATION A LOT OF FUN, UH, RULES CAN BE REALLY EASY TO UNDERSTAND, BUT FACTS PUSH THE RULES RIGHT TO SOME EDGES AND, AND THAT'S THE BEST ANSWER I CAN GIVE YOU. UH, I, I COULD KEEP TALKING ABOUT BEING CAREFUL. I'LL GO TO MR. QUINT. YEAH. SO THE, UM, PERSON THAT NOMINATED ME OR PUT ME ON THIS BOARD, UM, HOLDS A CABINET MEETING MONTHLY - UH-HUH. WHERE ALL OF HIS APPOINTEES, IN THEORY, GET TOGETHER AND TALK AND JUST, "HERE'S WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR DISTRICT." IS JUST ATTENDING THAT MEETING PROBLEMATIC FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE? SO GREAT QUESTION, UH, BECAUSE IT'S GONNA ADDRESS A COUPLE THINGS AT, AT ONCE. ONE IS, REMEMBER WHEN I SAID THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL KIND OF OPERATE LIKE TWO SIDES OF A COIN. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR FUTURE ACTIONS AND IS THIS A PROBLEM, THE GO-TO PLACE IS THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, YOU SEEK AN ADVISORY OPINION, WHICH IS IN THE DECK, AND YOU EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENS, WHAT YOU EXPLAIN EVERYTHING. IT'S CONFIDENTIAL AND IT'S FREE. AND SO LONG AS YOU TELL THEM EVERYTHING AND THEN FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE, YOU HAVE A SAFE HARBOR. CAITLIN AND I WROTE PLENTY OF THESE, UH, WHEN I WAS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND SHE CAN TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THEM MAYBE AFTER THE MEETING, BUT, BUT THAT IS THE WAY TO GO. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT MEETING SOUNDS, IS VERY FACTUALLY DEPENDENT AND IT IS, IT WOULD NOT BE A GREAT PRACTICE FOR ME TO START ADVISING ABOUT YOUR FUTURE BEHAVIOR BECAUSE A, UH, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS REALLY GOOD AT WRITING THESE. AND IF I SLIP UP AND SAY SOMETHING THAT YOU SAY, "WELL, THE, THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SAID THIS," YOU KNOW WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SAYS ABOUT THAT. WHAT I CAN SAY GENERALLY IS, UH, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD THING. THAT SOUNDS LIKE TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, GETTING A REPORT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT'S HAPPENING ON YOUR BOARD AND COMMISSION. IS EVERYTHING OKAY? DO YOU NEED ANY HELP? BUT BECAUSE OF THE SENSITIVITY AND THE FACT THAT THERE, THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC RULES, AND THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY, ANY COUNCIL MEMBER NEEDS TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. AND THERE'S ANOTHER RULE, IT'S 12A7, ABOUT INVOLVING OTHER PEOPLE IN, UH, VIOLATING THE CODE, INDUCING THEM, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PUSHING THEM IN, IN THAT DIRECTION. AND BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE BOARD, IF I WAS A COUNCIL MEMBER, I WOULD WANT AN ADVISORY OPINION. IF I WAS A BOARD MEMBER, I WOULD WANT AN ADVISORY OPINION AND LOCK THAT DOWN. SO, UH, I, I, I'LL, I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY. HE'S NOT YOUR ATTORNEY. YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR, YOU HAVE TO MAKE AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION ABOUT HOW YOU CONDUCT YOURSELF. UH, THE RULE OF THUMB, I'LL COME BACK TO YOU, MR. FINNEY. I'M GONNA GO TO MS. LAM IN A SECOND, THEN MR. FINNEY. UH, AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION, UM, IN MY PREVIOUS LIFE, [02:10:01] I HAD THE SAME THING. I HAD MY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ON A, BUT ON A QUARTERLY BASIS, BUT I NEVER DRILLED DOWN TO SPECIFICS OF WHAT PARTIC- PARTICULAR, ESPECIALLY BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO THE THICKETS, AND THEN SOMEONE'S GONNA MISINTERPRET A, A COMMENT OR OBSERVATION. THAT'S WHY, AS WE GO THROUGH TODAY WITH EXAMPLES, WE'RE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT A CASE SPECIFIC ON ANYTHING SO THAT NO ONE CAN SAY, "WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HEARD THAT CASE, WE DECIDED THIS." NO, EVERYTHING'S HYPOTHETICAL IN THAT, IN THAT SCENARIO FOR CASES FOR TODAY. UH, THAT'S AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION. UM, WHETHER OR NOT YOU NEED TO GET, UH, AN ADVISORY FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THAT'S A GOOD LAWYER ANSWER. UM, BUT I PROMISE YOU, 14 OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS DO THE SAME THING. NOW, WHAT YOU SAY IS A MEMBER OF THAT GROUP AND/OR THIS BODY, YOU JUST HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT YOU DON'T EVER CROSS THE LINE THAT ANYONE CAN SAY, "WELL, HE JUST TOLD ME ABOUT THE DELIBERATIONS HERE ON PANEL B, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU AND GRAHAM TALKED ABOUT." WHAT? THAT, BOY, YOU GET IN BIG TROUBLE THERE. MS. LAMB, THEN MR. FINNEY. SO, UM, JUST MAYBE A RECOMMENDATION TO ADD JUST AN EXTRA LAYER OF, UM, TRANSPARENCY. WHEN PRESENTING CASES, OFTENTIMES DEVELOPERS WILL HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S PRESENTING OR FILING ON THEIR BEHALF. AND I'VE NOTICED THAT LATELY SOMETIMES IT WILL ONLY HAVE THE APPLICANT AND IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE THE, THE, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY OR THE DEVELOPER THAT THEY'RE REPRESENTING. AND WE, WE WON'T FIND OUT UNTIL WE'RE ACTUALLY GETTING BRIEFED ON IT. AND THEN AT THAT MOMENT, I MAY REALIZE, WAIT, I KNOW WHO THE DEVELOPER IS EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT THE APPLICANT. SO IF WE MAY HAVE THAT EXTRA LAYER - SO TO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, AND THEN I'M GONNA LET THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR FACT CHECK ME ON THIS, WITH THE NEW SYSTEM, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE APPLICATION, MR. HOPKOVITZ, WHERE WE DON'T SEE THESE, THE, THE PAPER THING, IT'S IN THE COMPUTER READOUT, SEVERAL PAGES DOWN. YOU HAVE TO KINDA LOOK FOR IT, BUT IT'S, THE OWNER'S THERE. IT'S JUST SEVERAL PAGES OUT IN TYPED FORMAT. IS THAT CORRECT, INCORRECT? UM, YES. SO SOMETIMES THE, UM, SHE'S TRYING TO GET AT, IS THERE A CONFLICT THAT YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF? AND WHAT I'M SEEING IS SOMETIMES IT'LL JUST SAY AN APPLICATION ON BEHALF OF SO-AND-SO, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY ON APPLICA - IT'LL JUST SAY THE APPLICANT AND IT WON'T SAY AN APPLICATION ON BEHALF OF SO-AND-SO. SO I WILL SEE WHO THE APPLICANT IS, BUT IT WASN'T, IT WON'T BE UNTIL I GET TO BRIEFING THAT I REALIZE WHO THE APPLICATION IS, THE APPLICATION IS ON BEHALF OF. AND I THINK THE CONFLICT WILL THEN BECOME WITH WHO THE APPLICATION IS ON BEHALF OF, NOT WHO THE APPLICANT IS. SO SOMETIMES THE HOMEOWNERS ALLOW THEIR REPRESENTATIVE TO FILE AS THE APPLICANT. YEAH. AND SO THEY'LL SIGN AN AFFIDAVIT GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE AS THE APPLICANT. BUT THE HOMEOWNER INFORMATION IS, IS ALWAYS IN THE SUMMARY OF THE APPLICATION PACKET. OKAY. IT JUST. IT'S A, IT'S A HARD DIG, MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, BECAUSE I'VE RE- RE- REALIZED THAT RECENTLY TOO, WITH THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION DISAPPEARING, AGAIN, WE'RE THE OLD PAPER PEOPLE HERE. YEAH. UM, WE, WE'RE TRYING TO SAY, WELL, WHO'S THE APPLICANT? YEAH. WELL, THE APPLICANT'S SARAH LAMB, NOT, BUT SHE'S REPRESENTING SOMEONE ELSE. WELL, WHO'S THE OWNER? AND IT'S - THERE IS THE CONFLICT, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. IT'S SOMETIMES BURIED DOWN THERE, SO YOU WON'T EVEN REALIZE IT UNTIL YOU'RE IN A BRIEFING, EVEN IF, IT'S EASY TO MESS. SO IF, IF MAYBE WE CAN JUST HAVE IT VERY CLEAR ON, YOU KNOW, THE INITIAL PAGES OF, OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DOCKET. IS THAT, IS THAT POSSIBLE? THAT WILL JUST PROVIDE A DIFFERENT LAYER SO THERE'S NO SURPRISES. WE KNOW EXACTLY THE PARTIES INVOLVED IN EACH APPLICATION. DOES UN - DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND WHAT MS. LAM'S SPEAKING TO? OKAY, WE'LL COME TO YOU NEXT. MR. FINNEY, THEN DR. GLOVER. UM, MAY, MAY I JUST SAY ONE THING? YES. THE TRIGGER UNDER THE CODE FOR RECUSAL WHEN THERE'S A CONFLICT IS RECOGNITION. AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND. SO IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE ROLLING ALONG AND IT'S BURIED SOMEWHERE, YOU, YOU DON'T REALIZE THERE'S A CONFLICT, YOU'RE STILL OKAY. IT'S, IT'S RECOGNITION. AND I THOUGH THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT. SORRY. THAT'S, THAT'S EXCELLENT. OKAY. DR. GLOVER, THEN, UM, I THINK MR. FINNEY, DR. GLOVER - YOU MENTIONED THAT THE TRIGGER IS RECOGNITION. YES. RECOGNITION OF WHO? THE APPLICANT OR THE OWNER OR BOTH? RECOGNITION. IT'S NOT A WHO, IT'S A, A WHAT. IT'S THE CONFLICT. RECOGNITION THAT, OOPS, I HAVE A CONFLICT. SO IT, AND IT, IT MIGHT, YOU MIGHT BE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE SITTING ON A, A, A PANEL AND A QUORUM IS AT STAKE, AND YET, IN THE COURSE OF THAT, YOU REALIZE I HAVE A CONFLICT. AT THE TIME OF RECOGNITION, YOU HAVE TO RECUSE YOURSELF, WHICH MEANS YOU STEP AWAY FROM ALL DISCUSSION OF THAT ITEM, AND IT MAY EVEN BREAK A QUORUM, YOU KNOW? SO THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN SAID HERE IN YEARS PAST, IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO AS MUCH DUE DILIGENCE AS YOU CAN WITH THE, UH, AGENDA AND UNDERSTAND AS MUCH AS YOU CAN BEFORE YOU, YOU GET TO YOUR PANEL BECAUSE OF THIS ISSUE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS MORE CLEARLY? UH, BACK TO MS. LAM'S POINT. SO LET'S SAY THERE'S AN APPLICATION, AND I DO NOT [02:15:01] KNOW THE APPLICANT PERSONALLY, BUT I KNOW THE OWNER. WHERE DOES THE CONFLICT LIE? IT DEPENDS ON THE... WELL, OKAY. NUMBER ONE, AGAIN, WELL, NOT AGAIN. I DON'T MEAN TO SAY IT LIKE THAT. BUT THIS IS THE, THE KIND OF FODDER THAT IS GREAT FOR AN ADVISORY OPINION IF YOU HAVE TIME TO GET ONE. IF NOT, YOU'RE GONNA - BUT, BUT THEY'RE NOT, THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL, BARON. SO, WELL, IT - BECAUSE THE BOARD MEMBERS GET AN APP - GET THEIR DOCKET A WEEK BEFORE THE HEARING. OKAY. AND IT COMES ELECTRONICALLY AND IT MAY BE 30 PAGES OR IT MAY BE 100 PAGES. AND SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT CAN DR. GLOVER OR MS. LAMB OR ANY MEMBER ON THE BOARD IN REASONABLY QUICK FASHION SCAN THE, THE DOCKET TO - RIGHT. IDENTIFY THE OWNER THAT THEY MAY HAVE A CONFLICT IN? SO - WE'RE NOT TALKING REAL ESTATE YET. WE'RE TALKING, "OH, I KNOW EMMANUEL GLOVER, AND HE AND I ARE BEST BUDDIES. OOH, I'VE GOT A CONFLICT." OKAY. SO THERE ARE, THERE ARE CONFLICTS THAT ARE CONFLICTS OF APPEARANCE, LIKE YOUR BEST FRIEND OR YOU WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THEM OR THAT THOSE, BUT THOSE ARE NOT CONFLICTS UNDER THE CODE. THEN THERE ARE CONFLICTS THAT ARE CONFLICTS THAT ARE DEFINED UNDER THE CODE, AND THOSE PRIMARILY ARE DEFINED BY BUSINESS TYPE INTERESTS. SO YOU HAVE AN INTEREST OF SOME KIND IN THE PROPERTY OR IN THE BUSINESS THAT THE PERSON OWNS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. SO THAT'S WHY, UH, READING THROUGH THOSE FIRST THREE ARTICLES OF THE CODE AND THOSE 25 RULES ARE REALLY GONNA HELP YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE CODE DEFINES AS A CONFLICT SO THAT WHEN YOU BUMP INTO IT, YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO. NOW, JOHN Q. PUBLIC MAY LOOK AT YOUR BEST FRIEND SINCE HIGH SCHOOL AND SAY, "OH, THEY'VE DEFINITELY GOT A CONFLICT." WELL, BUT WHAT MATTERS, UH, FOR PURPOSES OF THE ETHICS CODE IS TWO THINGS. ONE, HOW DOES THE CODE DEFINE WHAT A CONFLICT IS? AND THEN NUMBER TWO, THAT WHOLE, UH, UNIQUE RULE ABOUT APPEARANCES. BUT, BUT REMEMBER THE, IF IT APPEARS TO BE A CONFLICT, THAT'S NOT A CONFLICT, THAT'S NOT A VIOLATION. IT'S JUST A SITUATION FOR YOU TO CAREFULLY CONSIDER. SO READ THROUGH THESE FIRST THREE ARTICLES AND I'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THE RULES AND THEY'RE IN THE DECK AND THAT WILL HELP ORIENT YOU TO WHAT REALLY IS GOING TO BE A CONFLICT UNDER THE CODE WHEN YOU BUMP INTO IT. OKAY. SO I'VE GOT MR. FINNEY, THEN MR. HOPKOVITZ. UM - MR. FINNEY. YES. SO - AND THEN MR. QUINN. BACK TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTION ABOUT THIS FINAL BULLET POINTS ON ARTICLE TWO. UM, JUST SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S TRYING TO COMMUNICATE, IT SEEMS TO BE COMMUNICATING THAT IT'S, IT'S OKAY FOR A COUNCIL MEMBER TO, UH, R- RECEIVE INFORMATION OR PROVIDE INFORMATION, REQUEST INFORMATION OR PROVIDE INFORMATION TO A BOARD MEMBER, UM, BUT IT'S NOT OKAY FOR THE, THE BOARD MEMBER TO REQUEST OR PROVIDE INFORMATION. UM, SO IS, IS THAT, IS THAT WHAT THIS, THE, THE PURPOSE OF THIS BULLET POINT IS STATING THAT, THAT IF THE COUNCIL MEMBER IS INITIATING THE, UM, COMMUNICATION ABOUT PARTI - A PARTICULAR CASE OR PROJECT, THEN IT'S OKAY, BUT IF IT IS NOT OKAY FOR ONE OF US TO INITIATE THAT? IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND, AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO THINK ABOUT THAT QUESTION A LITTLE BIT MORE BEFORE I ANSWER, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THERE ARE TWO CASES I CAN THINK OF. THIS IS ONE, AND THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT IS IN THE DECK, UH, WHERE THE RULE ACTUALLY ADDRESSES ONE OF THE TWO PARTIES AND DOESN'T ADDRESS THE OTHER. AND, AND THAT IS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE IT GETS VERY INTERESTING IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG, WHICH DOESN'T HELP YOU WHO, WHEN YOU'RE SITTING HERE, YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING. BUT THAT WOULD BE A SITUATION WHERE YOU'VE GOT PLENTY OF TIME FOR, UH, AN ADVISORY OPINION. THEY GENERALLY TAKE ABOUT TWO WEEKS. YEAH, BUT THEY GET THEIR DOCKET SEVEN DAYS BEFORE A CASE. I UNDERSTAND. AN ADVISORY OPINION IS NOT GONNA HELP. YES, IT WILL. AND IT WILL - BUT, BUT SEVEN DAYS. IT'S SEVEN DAYS WE GET OUR DOCKET AND THEY HAVE THE HEARING. IT WILL HELP BECAUSE THEY CAN ASK THE QUESTION NOW, NOT ABOUT A PARTICULAR CASE, BUT ABOUT THIS HAPPENS, HAS HAPPENED TO ME AND I, IT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN, UH, AND I NEED SOME HELP WITH THIS. AND MAYBE THE BOARD M- MAY WANNA REQUEST FROM CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WHAT'S CALLED A GENERAL ADVISORY OPINION, UH, ON THIS QUESTION. IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE. BE, BE CAREFUL BECAUSE YOU'RE AFFECTING 14 CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS WITH THAT DISCUSSION. YEAH. OR MR. QUINT'S ISSUE WITH THAT. ALL RIGHT. I'VE GOT MR. HOPKOVITZ, MR. QUINT, AND THEN MR. SASHINGTON. [02:20:01] MR. HOPKOVITZ. UH - GUYS, THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE'RE HERE. NOW, IT'S ALL IN PUBLIC, SO EVERYONE'S LISTENING TO AND/OR HEARING US, BUT THIS IS THE TRAINING THAT WE ABSOLUTELY NEED. MR. HOPKOVITZ. YEAH, I'VE, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UM, ONE ON, ON THIS IMMEDIATE SUBJECT. UH, SIMPLY KNOWING SOMEBODY, DOES THAT CREATE THE APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT IF YOU JUST KNOW THEM THAT THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY CLOSE TO YOU OR YOU JUST KNOW THEM? I MEAN, YOU'VE MET THEM BEFORE SOMEWHERE. IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. THE QUESTION WAS, DOES JUST KNOWING SOMEONE CREATE THE APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT? AND, AND THE REAL ANSWER TO THAT IS, UH, IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU'RE TALKING TO. NOT TO ME. UM, AND, AND THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP MIGHT, IT MIGHT AFFECT THAT IN SOME WAY. UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S EPHEMERAL. IT IS. AND, AND THAT IS, TO, UH, CHAIR'S POINT, SOMETHING THAT, THAT YOU FIGURE OUT AS YOU'RE GOING ALONG. DOES IT, DOES IT LOOK BAD? I CAN GIVE YOU SOME PERSONAL EXAMPLES, BUT - SO, UH, A LITMUS TEST WOULD NOT BE WHETHER I WOULD FEEL THAT I COULDN'T BE IMPARTIAL. I COULD FEEL THAT I COULD BE COMPLETELY IMPARTIAL, BUT THERE'S AN APPEARANCE THAT SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT SEE THAT AND GO THAT YOU'RE NOT BEING IMPARTIAL. YES, BUT REMEMBER, THAT LITMUS TEST IS A, IS, IS THIS ONE SPECIAL RULE IN 12A4 THAT SAYS, LOOK, THIS IS NOT A CONFLICT AND IT'S NOT A VIOLATION, BUT IT JUST LOOKS LIKE YOUR HAND'S IN THE COOKIE JAR. AN- ANOTHER WAY OF HANDLING THAT, MR. HOPKOVITZ, AND I'VE DONE IT OCCASIONALLY, IS SAY IT ON THE RECORD. YES. WHEN THE HEARING COMES UP, YOU TELL YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER AND HE, THE PRESIDING OFFICER RECOGNIZES YOU. AND IF, IF I'M THE PERSON, I, I SAY, I JUST WANT FOR THE RECORD AND FOR THE PUBLIC AND THE BOARD TO KNOW THAT I KNOW MICHAEL HOPKOVITZ AND, UH, HE, WE HAVE BEEN FRIENDS FOR 20 YEARS, 10 YEARS, FIVE YEARS, AND WE'VE NEVER DISCUSSED THIS CASE. HE'S NEVER ASKED ME ABOUT IT OR, OR WHATEVER THE SCOPE. YEAH. AND, AND FOR THE RECORD, I FEEL I CAN BE IMPARTIAL AND THERE'S NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST. AND THEN THE PANEL CAN SAY, "OKAY." THAT WAY KIND OF CLEANSES THAT. AND AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT HONESTY AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING, SO. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I PERSONALLY WOULD DO. IT'S NOT LEGAL ADVICE. NO, NO. I AGREE. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO. UH, MY SECOND QUESTION IS ABOUT, UM, THE FIRST BULLET POINT THAT YOU HAVE ON THIS, UH, SLIDE. USE THEIR POSITION TO INFLUENCE THE DELIBERATIONS OR DECISIONS OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. I MEAN, EVERY CASE WE HAVE, WE HAVE BACK AND FORTH AMONG THE PANEL WHEN WE GET, UH, AFTER WE HEAR THE EVIDENCE AND TRYING TO DISCUSS THE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE CASE. I THINK, I THINK WE'RE ALL DOING THAT TO TRY TO BRING OUR POINT OF VIEW TO SOMEONE ELSE. SO, YOU KNOW, IN A MATTER OF SPEAKING TO INFLUENCE - NO, HE'S SAYING YOUR CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS CANNOT. YEAH, THIS RULE IS ABOUT THE INTERACTION WITH CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. OH, THIS IS CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. FORGIVE ME. RIGHT. YEAH. NEVERMIND. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. THEN I'VE GOT - IT'S OKAY. UH, THIS IS A LOT. I GET IT. I'VE GOT MR. QUINT. THANK YOU. AS A FOLLOW-UP TO MS. LAMB'S COMMENT ABOUT JUST THE, YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW THE APPLICANT. WELL, UM, MY VERY FIRST MEETING AS A BOARD MEMBER, A CASE CAME UP IN FRONT OF US WHERE I HAPPENED TO KNOW THE APPLICANT. I ALSO HAPPENED TO KNOW A PERSON THAT WAS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE APPLICANT. AND I, AND I SAID, "HEY, IS, IS THIS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST?" AND, AND THE ATTORNEY THAT WAS WITH US THAT DAY SAID, "IF THERE'S NOT A FINANCIAL GAIN - RIGHT. FOR YOU." AND THAT WAS THE, THE TEST BY WHICH I... AND THEN I SAID, "I, I KNOW PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES TO THIS DEAL. I HAVE NO FINANCIAL GAIN, AND HERE I AM." MM-HMM. BUT IT, IT WAS, IT, IT, THAT WAS THE, THE LITMUS TEST FOR ME WAS - AND YOU PUT THAT ON THE RECORD. I DID. AND, AND THEREIN IS THE EXAMPLE. YOU HAVE MADE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO BE ABLE TO SAY W- WHAT YOU'RE AWARE OF. MR. SASHINGTON. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THESE, THESE ARE VERY GOOD QUESTIONS. CONTINUE. OKAY. GOOD NEWS IS THAT'S PROBABLY THE HAIRIEST SET OF RULES THAT WE HAVE. AND SO THE REST OF THESE, MOST LIKELY, UH, THEY'RE MORE LIKE MATH. THAT ONE IS A LITTLE, UH - BE- BEFORE WE CONTINUE, NOW THAT I'M, I'M SORRY - UH-HUH. UH, THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND I TALKED AS IT RELATES TO MS. LAMB'S QUESTION, AS IT RELATES TO THE APPLICATION, IS IT THE APPLICANT OR IS IT THE OWNER? SO WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN VERY BRIEFLY WHAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS? LET'S SEE. THIS GOES TO DISCLOSURE TO THE BOARD MEMBER OF THE TRUE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AS OPPOSED TO THE APPLICANT. OR YOU CAN JUST SAY IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHARE. WELL, I WAS GONNA SHARE MY SCREEN TO SHOW THE INFORMATION THAT, UM, THAT'S [02:25:01] OFTEN PROVIDED, WELL, THAT'S ALWAYS PROVIDED IN THE DOCKET MATERIAL THAT WE SEND OUT. SO ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE APPLICATION SUMMARY, IT SHOWS, IT GIVES YOU THE APPLICANT. IT GIVES YOU IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER AUTHORIZED AGENTS WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT, AS WELL AS THE PROPERTY OWNER. SO ON THE VERY FIRST PAGE OF THE APPLICATION SUMMARY, THAT INFORMATION IS THERE. IT'S A COMPUTER READOUT THAT'S NEW. MM-HMM. UM, SO WHAT I'VE ASKED THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR IS, IS THERE A WAY THAT THE STAFF CAN HIGHLIGHT THAT ON THE FRONT PAGE OR R - UPFRONT, T- TAKE IT OUT OF THAT, NOT TAKE IT OUT, BUT THE, DISCLOSE IT ON THE FRONT END OF THE, OF THE, OF THE ITEM, THE KIND OF THE COVER SHEET. YES. AND, AND YOU CAN OR CANNOT? YES, WE CAN. SO OFTENTIMES WHEN THERE, THERE IS A HOMEOWNER AS THE APPLICANT, RIGHT BELOW THE BO SECTION OF THE CASE REPORT, WE'LL HAVE REPRESENTED BY. SO GOING FORWARD, UM, WE COULD PUT, IF THE APPLICANT IS A REPRESENTATIVE, WE, IN PLACE OF REPRESENTED BY, WE COULD PUT PROPERTY OWNER. MM-HMM. AND I THINK THAT'S VERY HELPFUL. I MEAN, OFTENTIMES TOO, WE HAVE TO ASK, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE, THEIR, THEIR CASE THEY'RE MAKING, OUR, USUALLY OUR FOLLOW-UP QUESTION IS, IS WHAT'S YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO, LIKE, TO THE, TO THE OWNER, RIGHT? SOMETIMES IT'S NOT ALWAYS CLEAR THAT IT, LIKE, IT'S THE APPLICANT AND THE APPLICANT ISN'T THE OWNER AND WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS. LIKE, WE'VE HEARD A CASE WHERE IT WAS THE SURVEY COMPANY THAT WAS REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT BECAUSE THEIR SURVEY WAS INCORRECT. AND SO IT'S NOT ALWAYS CLEAR, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE KIND OF NEW TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AS APPLICANTS, FOR THEM TO SPEAK TOWARDS WHAT THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS TO THE PROJECT. SO JUST AS MUCH TRANSPARENCY AND NUANCE IN TERMS OF THE APPLICANT AND, AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP TO THE PROPERTY OWNER WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL. AND ON YOUR SCREEN HERE, UM, I'VE PULLED UP THE APPLICATION SUMMARY. SO THIS IS THE APPLICATION SUMMARY THAT'S PROVIDED IN THE DOCKET. AND IF YOU SCROLL DOWN, IT'S ALL OF PAGE, PART OF, ALL ON, UM, PAGE ONE. IT HAS ALL OF THE CONTACT INFORMATION. SO YOU'LL SEE THE APPLICANT, THE AUTHORIZED AGENT, IF THERE'S ONE, AND THEN THE PROPERTY OWNER. BUT YOU'RE, THE STAFF'S GONNA PUT THAT UP FRONT NOW ON THE COVER PAGE SO THAT THEY CAN QUICKLY SEE, "OH, I KNOW JOHN DOE. OH, GOSH, DO I HAVE A CONFLICT OR NOT?" AND ADDRESS THAT. 'CAUSE AGAIN, BARON, WE DON'T, MR. LIASON, I'M SORRY, WE DON'T, UM, WE DON'T KNOW IT UNTIL SEVEN DAYS BEFORE WHAT THE CASE IS, WHO THE OWNER IS, WHAT THE REQUEST IS - YEAH. WHICH CREATES ALL, YOU KNOW - IT'S FAST. YEAH. BUT WE WANT THAT. WE WANT ENOUGH TIME IN ADVANCE, BUT NOT TOO MUCH TIME. ALL RIGHT. I, I'M, I'M SORRY, CHAIR. MR. SASHINGTON. I JUST WANNA, UM, CAN WE JUST PONDER FOR A SECOND? SURE. DOES IT, IS IT RELEVANT THOUGH? UM - IS WHAT? IS IT RELEVANT? I MEAN, I, I KNOW - IT'S RELEVANT IF THERE'S A P - CONFLICT OF INTEREST. BUT THE CONFLICT IS WHEN YOU RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S A CONFLICT, RIGHT? RIGHT? WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU RECOGNIZE - HERE, HERE, HERE'S THE TRIP WIRE. IF YOU DON'T LOOK AT IT IN ADVANCE, YOU GET TO A HEARING AND THEN YOU RECUSE YOURSELF, YOU COULD LOSE A QUORUM. BUT IF IT'S NOT... I MEAN, TO, UM, MS. MS. MS. LAMB'S, UH, POINT, UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO, JUST TRYING TO PONDER IF IT, IF IT REALLY, REALLY MATTERS. IF YOU, IF THE, IF THE APPLICANT OR THE OWNER IS BEING REPRESENTED BY SOMEONE, THEN THAT PERSON THAT'S BEFORE US IS REPRESENTING THAT CASE IN WHOLE. BUT WHAT IS, WHAT IS - LET ME, LET ME - GO AHEAD. WHETHER OR NOT THE OWNER IS KNOWN TO US, IS IT... I GUESS, UM, I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF IT REALLY MATTERS. IT WOULD BE IF THERE'S A BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP THAT ONE HAS WITH THE OWNER. IF THERE, IF IT TRIPWIRES ANY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CREATES A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, WE'RE GONNA... IN THE NEXT COUPLE SLIDES, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THE NOTIFICATION AREA. WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT P- PERCENTAGE OF OWNERSHIP, ALL THE THINGS THAT CREATE TRIPWIRES. AND WHAT YOU DON'T WANT IS HAVE TO RECUSE YOURSELF ON THE SPOT, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN - YOU HAVE A QUORUM. YOU LOSE A QUORUM, AND THEN THE CASE HAS TO BE HELD OVER, UM, BECAUSE I CAN'T GET AN ALTERNATE TO FILL YOUR SPOT, UH, ON, UH, THAT QUICK. SO MS. MS... I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. OKAY. MS. LAMB, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA KEEP GOING. I, EXAMPLE, I HAD... I DIDN'T HAVE TO RECUSE MYSELF BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY F - LIKE, FINANCIAL GAIN FROM THE OUTCOME, BUT THE APPLICANT ON, ON LAST MEETING, UM, WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE PROPERTY OWNER. THE PROPERTY OWNER, I'D COME TO REALIZE THAT I HAD TRANSACTED WITH ON OTHER DEALS IN THE PAST. I HAD NO FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THAT, SO I... THERE WAS NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST, BUT IT WASN'T CLEAR IN, IN THE INITIAL PRESENTATION THAT, THAT PROPERTY OWNER, BECAUSE HE WASN'T THE APPLICANT, W- WAS INVOLVED IN THE CASE. SO, LIKE, AT THAT POINT, I WAS LIKE... BUT IT WASN'T A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, SO I COULD STILL HEAR THE CASE, BUT KNOWING WHO THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS, I THINK, WAS, WAS ESSENTIAL. THAT GOES TO THE APPEARANCE, THE APPEARANCE, AND WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, DOES MS. LAM KNOW THIS GUY AND [02:30:01] DID MS. LAMB DO IT BECAUSE SHE DID A DEAL WITH THIS GUY BEFORE? I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE CASE. I'M SAYING SO. BUT THE APPEARANCE ISN'T NECESSARILY THE, THE APPEARANCE OF THERE BEING A VIOLATION ISN'T NECESSARILY A VIOLATION. I MEAN - IT, IT'S NOT A VIOLATION AND THAT'S WHAT THE RULE IS. THAT'S THE POINT OF, PARDON ME FOR INTERRUPTING, BUT THAT'S THE, THE POINT ABOUT THE RULE IS THAT IT'S DIFFERENT THAN EVERY OTHER SECTION IN THE CODE. IT'S NOT SAYING YOU HAVE A CONFLICT AND IT IS NOT SAYING IT'S A VIOLATION. IT'S JUST SAYING THERE'S SOMETHING FOR YOU TO CAREFULLY CONSIDER. AND YOU CAN DO THAT BY MAKING A DISCLOSURE. UM, AND IF YOU DON'T DO, IF YOU'RE NOT, DON'T READ THE COVER PAGE THAT HAS ALL THE PARTIES IN IT OR WHATNOT, YOU, YOU, YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO, TO DO THAT. BUT ONCE YOU DO IT AND YOU UNDERSTAND IT, YOU GOTTA CAREFUL, YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY CONSIDER IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE REPUTATION OF THE CITY. THAT'S THE ISSUE. THAT YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING IMPROPER, WHETHER YOU'RE FOLLOWING RULES OR NOT. AND UN- UNNAMED BOARD MEMBERS ON THIS BOARD HAVE HAD CHARGES AGAINST THEM FOR A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE OF THIS VERY SCENARIO. THIS PERSON'S NO LONGER ON OUR BOARD AND IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TWICE. AND THERE WA - IT WAS DISMISSED BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY, ANY MERIT. BUT THAT... ANYWAY, SO. OKAY. KEEP GOING, MR. LYSON. OH, I'M SORRY. DR. GLOVER. UH, THIS IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY STAFF. IS THERE AN EASY WAY WHERE WE CAN JUST HAVE THE APPLICANT'S NAME AND WRITE UNDER IT THE OWNER SO IT MAKES IT EASY WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT IT AND THEN WE CAN... YEAH, SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO GOING FORWARD. SO ON THE CASE REPORTS THAT YOU GUYS WILL RECEIVE, YOU'LL HAVE THE, UM, BUILDING OFFICIAL'S REPORT AND THEN WE TYPICALLY HAVE LOCATION, APPLICANT OR REPRESENTED BY AND REQUEST. SO IN THAT SECTION, WE'LL ADD PROPERTY OWNER. SO YOU'LL GET THE PROPERTY OWNER'S NAME. PERFECT. PROCEED. OKAY. SO THIS NEXT SET OF RULES WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH RE- REALLY GONNA BURROW DOWN A LITTLE BIT BETTER AND, AND GIVE YOU A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT CONFLICTS ARE. THERE IS AN ACRONYM IN THE LAW. UH, IT, IT IS, UH, IT'S SOMETHING I WOULDN'T REPEAT IF I COULD REMEMBER IT. UH, BUT I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE ATTORNEYS. THEY'LL KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. UH, BUT BASICALLY IT SAYS READ THE STATUTE. THERE'S A, THERE'S, THERE'S AN ACRONYM THAT BASICALLY SAYS IF YOU DON'T READ THE STATUTE, YOU'RE NOT A BRIGHT LAWYER. UM, READ THOSE FIRST THREE ARTICLES. THERE'S ONLY 25 RULES. JUST READ IT. THAT'S WHAT... EVEN LAWYERS, UH, SOMETIMES WILL FAIL TO JUST READ THE STATUTE. I COULD GO ON AND ON AND, AND MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ABOUT DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH AND THEN I READ THE STATUTE AND REALIZED I COULD'VE DONE THIS RESEARCH IN FIVE MINUTES. UH, IT'S GONNA HELP YOU. NOW I'M TRYING TO GET, UH, EVERYTHING GOING. OKAY. SOME EASY ONES. IF WE WERE GONNA WRITE A CODE OF ETHICS, WE'D PUT THESE IN THERE. LOOK, IT IS NEVER OKAY TO DISCRIMINATE. AND THE DEFINITION OF WHAT DISCRIMINATION IS IN THERE. IT IS NEVER OKAY, UH, FOR RETALIATION TO HA - TO HAPPEN. AND UNDER THE CODE, WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU ARE COOPERATING IN AN INVESTIGATION. SO THIS HAS TO DO WITH CODE OF ETHICS PROCESS. YOU'RE COOPERATING AND SOMEBODY SAYS, "I DON'T LIKE THAT YOU'RE COOPERATING. I DON'T LIKE THAT YOU ARE FORTHCOMING AS A WITNESS," AND THEY RETALIATE AGAINST YOU. THE OTHER ONE IS VERY INTERESTING. UM, IT'S OTHER, OTHER PERSONS. UH, AND I'VE ALLUDED TO THIS, BUT IT, IT'S NOT OKAY TO, TO TRY AND GET SOMEBODY ELSE TO VIOLATE THE CODE FOR YOU. AND THIS ONE CAN BE VERY SUBTLE. I'VE GOT AN EXAMPLE LATER. BUT LOOK, ASSISTING OR INDUCING SOMEONE TO VIOLATE THE CODE, WORKING THROUGH ANOTHER TO VIO - TO VIOLATE THE CODE. THE THIRD PART IN THIS ADDS CONSPIRING WITH ANOTHER TO VIOLATE THE CODE. UM, AND SO I PUT THIS AS A HINT. THINK ABOUT ASKING OTHERS TO CUT CORNERS OR DROP RED TAPE WHEN IT COMES TO THE CODE OF ETHICS. AND WHEN YOU'RE ASKING THEM TO DO THAT, YOU MAY BE, UH, TICKLING THIS RULE. OKAY. ARTICLE THREE, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. SO HERE WE GO. GIFTS AND DONATIONS, THIS IS IN THERE. UM, WE'VE TALKED ENOUGH ABOUT THE REPORTING SIDE OF GIFTS. MAIN THING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT GIFTS IS THERE'S A REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD TO GIFTS THAT SAYS IF SOMEBODY DOES GIVE YOU A GIFT AND A REASONABLE PERSON THINKS THAT WOULD, UH, AFFECT YOUR DECISION MAKING, YOU'VE GOT AN ISSUE. AND HERE'S THE INTERESTING, UH, REVERSE OF THAT. IF THE PERSON GIVING YOU THE GIFT THINKS IT'S GOING TO INFLUENCE YOU. SO YOU CAN GIVE ME A LIFETIME SUPPLY OF ANCHOVY PIZZAS AND I'M NOT GONNA DO A THING FOR YOU, BUT IF YOU THINK IT IS GONNA AFFECT MY DECISION MAKING, NOW I'VE GOT A GIFT PROBLEM. UH, THAT'S AN, THE, THE RULES ABOUT GIFTS ARE, ARE IN THERE, UH, BUT THOSE ARE THE MAIN THINGS YOU NEED TO, UH, KNOW ABOUT THAT. THERE'S A LOT OF GUIDANCE IN THE CODE ABOUT EXCEPTIONS TO GIFTS. AND, [02:35:01] UH, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME, OR AT LEAST I DID, ON THE SHARE OF ADVISORIES THAT I GOT, SORTING OUT GIFT QUESTIONS, UH, BASED ON THOSE, UM, THE GUIDANCE THERE ABOUT EXCEPTIONS. BUT HERE'S ONE TO, UH, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS DR. GLOVER OR MR. UH, HOPPER, BUT HERE'S A GREAT ONE. SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST CONFLICTS. SO THE CODE DEFINES SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST IN, UH, BUSINESSES AND IN PROPERTY. WHAT I ALWAYS SAY ABOUT THIS TO PEOPLE IS WHAT IS A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST UNDER THE CODE? IT MUST HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN 1983 BECAUSE THE NUMBERS HERE ARE REALLY LOW. WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU IS IT'S REALLY EASY TO HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST. WHEN IT COMES TO PROPERTY, THE LINE THAT YOU CROSS IS $2,500 INTEREST IN THE PROPERTY. THAT'S, THAT'S NOT MUCH. OKAY? SO WHEN YOU HAVE THAT, UH, AND THE, THE ACTION ON THE MATTER, I'LL GO TO THE, UH, ONE ON PROPERTY. IF IT IS REASONABLE, FORESEEABLE THAT AN ACTION ON THE MATTER WILL HAVE A SPECIFIC ECONOMIC EFFECT, IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S NOT JUST GOING TO, TO HELP THE CITY GENERALLY, IT'S SPECIFICALLY GONNA HELP A CERTAIN PERSON, NAMELY YOU, UH, BECAUSE YOU HAVE AT LEAST $2,500, UH, INTEREST IN THE PROPERTY, YOU'VE GOT A CONFLICT AND YOU CAN'T BE WORKING ON THAT ZONING CASE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THAT'S SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST. UH, NOW THERE'S THIS MISCELLANEOUS CONFLICTS SECTION, UH, AND YOU MAY BUMP INTO SOME OF THESE. THE FIRST ONE IS BECAUSE YOU'RE HERE AND YOU'RE ENGAGED IN THE CITY, YOU MAY BE AWARE, UH, MORE AWARE THAN MOST PEOPLE ABOUT, UH, INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE CITY IS THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS OR HAS MADE A DECISION ABOUT THAT. SOUNDS LIKE INSIDER TRADING. AND SO THERE'S THIS, WHAT I, I CALL THE INSIDER TRADING RULE. IF THE CITY IS ABOUT TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT SOMETHING, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ACQUIRING INTEREST IN THAT. UM, AND ONCE A MATTER IS DECIDED, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WAIT A YEAR BEFORE YOU ACQUIRE AN INTEREST IN THAT. UM, THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE IF ANYONE HAS BEEN ON THE BOARD FOR LESS THAN A YEAR, BECAUSE IN THAT FIRST YEAR WHEN YOU SERVE, IF A ZONING CASE CAME UP AND THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS A FORMER EMPLOYER OF YOURS, YOU HAVE A CONFLICT. UH, PARTICIPATION IN MATTERS THAT INVOLVE PROPERTY WITHIN THE AREA OF NOTIFICATION AND ZONING CASES. UH, IF THAT COMES UP, YES. MR. SLADE. SO HOW DOES IT WORK IF SOMEONE IS WITHIN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT AND THEY ARE WITHIN THAT? SO THEY DON'T OWN PROPERTY WITHIN THE 200-FOOT RADIUS, BUT THEY DO LIVE WITHIN THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT THAT'S AT ISSUE. IS THAT WITHIN THIS LAST BULLET? ON THE PARTICIPATION IN MATTERS THAT INVOLVE PROPERTY WITHIN THE AREA OF NOTIFICATION? UH, THAT'S ONE I'D LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THINK AND RESEARCH BEFORE I, I GIVE YOU A SET ANSWER. BUT REALLY, I WOULDN'T GIVE YOU A SET ANSWER. I'D SAY WE GOTTA GET AN ADVISORY OPINION, UH, BECAUSE BASICALLY, UH, BEFORE THE INSPECTOR GENERAL WAS A DIVISION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND IT WAS THE ROLE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AND THE CHIEF INTEGRITY OFFICER TO HELP WITH ADVISORY OPINIONS. WHEN WE BECAME AN INDEPENDENT OFFICE, THE ABILITY TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE ABOUT FUTURE DECISIONS WITH ANY AUTHORITY W- W- W - REMAINED WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. SO I'M BASICALLY A GUY WITH KNOWLEDGE THAT STAYED AT A HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS. AND SO I REALLY WOULD SAY SEEK AN ADVISORY OPINION ABOUT THAT. I, I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU MY OPINION, BUT I, IT WOULDN'T BE WISE AND IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH ANYTHING. I, I THINK FOR PURPOSES FOR THE BOARD - YEAH. THIS LAST BULLET IS VERY APPROPRIATE. YEAH. THAT 200, WE'RE, OUR NOTIFICATION AREA IS 200 FEET. PLANNING COMMISSION HAS 200, 300, 500. WE'RE JUST 200 FEET. SO, AND, UH, WE GET A MAP AND WE GET LISTING OF PROPERTY OWNERS. AND IF WE SHOW UP ON THAT LIST OF PROPERTY OWNERS, THAT SHOULD OBVIOUSLY MEAN IT, YOU KNOW, RECUSE RIGHT AWAY, SO. IF, IF A COMPLAINT CAME IN, I CAN, I CAN TELL YOU THIS. WE'D LOOK IT UP AND WE'D SEE 200 FEET AND WE'D GET OUT OUR TAPE AND START MEASURING AND THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD START. OH, WE GET A REPORT THAT SHOWS THE 200 FEET. SO IT'S VERY MUCH IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE IN ADVANCE, A WEEK IN ADVANCE. YEAH. OKAY. KEEP GOING. OKAY. NEXT, UH, NEPOTISM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WORK BECOMES A FAMILY REUNION, JUST FOR ALL OF US, IT'S OKAY IF OUR FAMILY WORKS HERE. WE JUST CAN'T GET THEM THE JOB OR THE APPOINTMENT. UM, AND PARTICULARLY ON THIS, WHICH IS A QUASI-JU - JUDICIAL BOARD, WE DON'T, AS CITY OFFICIALS, ALL OF US, NOT JUST YOU, WANNA TRY AND INFLUENCE THE APPOINTMENT OF RELATIVES TO THE BOARD OR, [02:40:01] OR COMMISSION. UM, CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION, THIS IS PROBABLY A, A, A, A BIGGER ONE. THIS, THIS COMES UP A LOT. UH, YOU MAY HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU SERVE ON THIS BOARD THAT'S CONFIDENTIAL. IT'S, IF IT'S NOT YOUR JOB TO TELL SOMEBODY, DON'T TELL THEM. DOES, DOES THIS BOARD GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? WE HAVE FROM TIME TO TIME IF THERE'S PENDING OR EXISTING LITIGATION. OKAY. WHEN, WHEN THAT COMES UP, I'M SURE YOU ALL KNOW, BUT I'M GONNA SAY IT TO BE THOROUGH, YOU DON'T GET TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION MEETING WITH, WITH THE PUBLIC. AND IT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN, LIKE THOSE SAILBOAT RACES, YOU GET REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT AND YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING ON FACEBOOK, OR PLEASE DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU'LL BE IN VIOLATION OF THE RULE. AND, AND NOT ONLY THAT, WHEN YOU SEE THAT IN OTHER CITY OFFICIALS AROUND THE CITY, KNOW THAT IT'S WRONG AND, AND KNOW THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING ABOUT IT, WHICH IS REPORTING THAT. AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE AWARE THAT REALISTICALLY, WE SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT A CASE FROM THE MOMENT YOU KNOW IT'S ON YOUR DOCKET TO 10 DAYS AFTER THE DECISION. BECAUSE THAT FIRST 10 DAYS IS WHEN THE APPLICANT, IF THEY DON'T WIN, CAN APPEAL THE CASE, WHICH MEANS THE CASE IS STILL ALIVE. OKAY. UH, REPRESENTATION OF PRIVATE INTEREST. UH, YOU KNOW PEOPLE AROUND THE CITY, UH, THEY MAY COME UP TO YOU AND SAY, "HEY, WILL YOU HELP US WITH THIS PROJECT?" IN OTHER WORDS, REPRESENT US BEFORE THE CITY. THERE ARE SPECIFIC RULES, UH, ABOUT THAT. ONE SET OF RULES IF YOU ARE COMPENSATED FOR THAT REPRESENTATION AND ONE IF YOU ARE NOT COMPENSATED FOR THAT. UH, AND THEN THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS THAT FOLLOW. AND IT IS THIS, THIS RULE IS BYZANTINE. A BASIC THING THAT I WANNA IMPRESS UPON YOU RIGHT NOW IS IF SOMEBODY ASKS YOU TO REPRESENT THEM, READ THIS RULE, CONTACT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. IT, IT IS EASY TO GET TRIPPED UP ON THIS, BUT, UM, I CAN TELL YOU IT'S REALLY EASY IN THE SENSE OF IF THEY WANT YOU TO REPRESENT THEM BEFORE THIS BOARD, THINK TWICE, THINK THREE TIMES, THINK FOUR TIMES AND GET THAT ADVISORY OPINION BEFORE YOU DO IT. UM, SO THAT'S REPRESENTATION OF PRIVATE INTEREST. OUTSIDE EMPLOYMENT, UM, YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY THAT REASONABLY WOULD IMPACT THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MAKE HERE. THE KEY FOR YOU IS, UM, AND, AND AGAIN, YOU MIGHT SEE AN APPLICANT ON THIS CONFLICT COVER SHEET THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE GETTING. LOOK, YOU CANNOT PERSONALLY PROVIDE SERVICES OR COMPENSATION IN WHATEVER JOB YOU NORMALLY HAVE TO A PERSON OR ORGANIZATION THAT IS SEEKING BUSINESS OR REQUESTING AN APPROVAL, INVESTIGATION OR T - DETERMINATION FROM YOUR BOARD OR BODY. SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE YOU BUMPED INTO A CONFLICT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A, YOU HAVE AN... WELL, I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN. UH, YOU GET IT, RIGHT? IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. UH, USE OF PUBLIC RESOURCES. UM, YOU CAN'T USE PUBLIC RESOURCES FOR PRIVATE STUFF. THAT, THAT INCLUDES EMAILS, STAFF, UH, LOGOS, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. A LOT OF RULES ABOUT THAT. POLITICAL ACTIVITY AND ADVERTISING. IF YOU WANNA BE INVOLVED IN POLITICS, THAT'S FINE. READ THE RULES ABOUT IT, UH, BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF THEM, ESPECIALLY IF IT INVOLVES HANDLING MONEY IN ANY WAY. UM, CITY CHARTER, FINANCIAL INTERESTS. THIS IS IN THE CITY CHARTER CHAPTER 22 AND IN THE CODE OF ETHICS CHAPTER 22. THIS IS ANOTHER ONE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA WANNA GET HELP FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. THE GENERAL RULE THAT DOESN'T APPLY IN THE CITY CHARTER, WHICH IS OUR CONSTITUTION TO, UH, PEOPLE WHO SIT ON BOARDS OR COMMISSIONS IS YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST DIRECT OR, OR DIRECT IN ANY CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OR BE FINANCIALLY INTERESTED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY IN THE SALE TO THE CITY OF LAND, MATERIALS, SUPPLIES, SERVICES. UM, AND, AND SO FOR MOST CITY OFFICIALS, IF YOU DO THAT, THERE'S ONLY ONE REMEDY. THERE IS NO RANGE OF PENALTY, UH, PUNISHMENT. THE, THE, THE, UH, WAY THAT'S DEALT WITH IS YOU LOSE YOUR POSITION AND THE CITY COUNCIL CAN UNTIE THE KNOT ON THAT CONTRACT. AND HERE'S WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING. WHEN THE CODE GOES A WEE BIT FARTHER, JUST A LITTLE BIT FARTHER, AND IT SAYS THE RESTRICTIONS IN 22 DON'T APPLY TO A MEMBER OF A BOARD OR COMMISSION EXCEPT A CITY OFFICIAL, WHICH WOULD BE YOU, WHILE IN SERVICE OF THE CITY, WHICH IS NOW, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SUBMIT A, A BID OR PROPOSAL TO MAKE A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OR NEGOTIATE TO ENTER IN A, INTO ANY CITY CONTRACT. SO DON'T DO THOSE THINGS, BUT LOOK AT THE EXCEPTION. IT GETS A LITTLE ARCANE, BUT IF YOU JUST READ IT ONCE OR TWICE, YOU'LL GET IT. IF YOU'RE ON A MEMBER, IF YOU'RE A MEMBER OF AN ADVISORY BOARD OR COMMISSION, WELL, YOU ARE ON A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DO ARE ADVISORY. SO YOU SEE HOW THAT MIGHT DETERMINE WHAT YOU DO THERE. WHAT DO I THINK YOU SHOULD DO? SEEK AN ADVISORY OPINION. EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS, UH, THIS IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE. NO, AND THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE. UM, NO PERSON, IT'S NOT [02:45:01] CITY OFFICIAL, EMPLOYEE, IT'S NOBODY SHALL DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, UH, A MEMBER OF A QUASI-JUDICIAL CITY OR BOARD REGARDING ANY ADJUDICATIVE MATTER THAT IS ON YOUR AGENDA OR L- LISTEN, REASONABLY MAY BE, UH, RE - LET ME JUST READ IT. MAY REASONABLY BE EXPECTED TO BE PENDING BEFORE THE BOARD. SO NOBODY'S SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING TO YOU ABOUT THOSE THINGS UNLESS FULL DISCLOSURE IS MADE TO EVERYBODY ABOUT THAT. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO COMMUNICATION BY A CITY EMPLOYEE WITH THE BOARD IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES. MS. LAMB. MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, YOU MADE MENTION THAT WE AREN'T ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE CASE UP, UH, WITH ANYBODY, UM, UH, WITHIN THE FIRST 10 DAYS AFTER EITHER APPROVAL DENIAL BECAUSE IT MAY GET APPEALED. THAT'S CORRECT, BECAUSE IT'S STILL CONSIDERED A, COULD BE A VIABLE CASE. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR OUR, OUR, OUR PAPERWORK AND OUR NOTES AND ALL THE DOCUMENTATIONS THAT WE TAKE WHILE AT THE PUBLIC HEARING? H- HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO PRESERVE THOSE DOCUMENTS, IF AT ALL? WELL, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. UM, THAT HAS COME UP PREVIOUSLY. DO THE, DO THE NOTE... ME, I'M A PAPER RAT. I KEEP... IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS, IS HELD OVER, I KEEP IT TILL THE NEXT HEARING. UM, BUT THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT WITHIN THE CODE THAT SAYS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR PAPERWORK BEYOND THE MEETING. AND THERE'S NO, UH, DISCLOSURE, DISCOVERY, UM, ENABLING REGULATION THAT SAYS THAT THOSE THINGS... NOW, THINGS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT ARE GIVEN OUT ARE USUALLY TAKEN BACK IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT, YOUR NOTES AND OWES ARE ON YOUR OWN. AM I CORRECT? ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYTHING IN THE CODE THAT SAYS THAT NOTES THAT WE TAKE AT A HEARING BELONG TO THE CITY? N - I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT. I, I'M NOT. I, I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT. OKAY. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN MUCH, BECAUSE I, I'VE, I'VE - NO, I'M, I HAVEN'T DUG DEEP INTO THAT. MR. QUINN? I'VE NEVER... I'VE - OKAY. ALL RIGHT. KEEP GOING. OKAY. WE ARE ALMOST TO THE END. UH, I, I'LL MAKE A COMMENT ON THE O - LAST DEAL. GO BACK ONE CLICK, PLEASE. I'LL BE VERY QUICK. I'LL PUT MYSELF ON THE LINE OF FIRE HERE. HERE WE GO. I'VE BEEN APPROACHED SEVERAL TIMES BY SEVERAL PEOPLE REGARDING A PENDING ZONING CASE, AND EACH TIME I'VE DONE THE SAME THING. "I CAN'T TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT, BUT I JUST WANNA TAKE YOU TO LUNCH. "NO, I CAN'T DO THAT. WELL, THERE'S NOTHING BEFORE YOUR PANEL. I DON'T KNOW. IT CERTAINLY COULD HAPPEN. AND IF YOU AND I TALK ABOUT A PARTICULAR ISSUE AND THEN LATER COMES BEFORE THE BOARD, THEN I AM SETTING MYSELF UP THAT I HAVE TO PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE IT AND MOST LIKELY RECUSE MYSELF. SO THEREFORE, I'M STOPPING RIGHT AT THE DOOR. DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT IT. I THINK THAT'S BEST PRACTICE. AND HERE'S WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING AND IT GOES TO YOUR, YOUR QUESTION, WHERE A RULE COVERS HALF THE PARTIES TO A CONVERSATION. THIS DOES THE SAME THING. IT, IT, IT ACTUALLY DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS WHETHER YOU CAN GO TO A PERSON AND ASK. BUT IF YOU DID THAT, GO BACK TO THAT 12A7 OTHER PERSONS, YOU'RE INDUCING THEM TO VIOLATE THIS RULE. JUST AN INTERESTING THING TO POINT OUT. UH, OKAY. WHAT IF PROTOCOLS? I DON'T NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS ANYMORE. I'VE, I'VE TALKED ABOUT ADVISORY OPINIONS, UH, TILL EVERYBODY'S BLUE IN THE FACE. SO LET'S GET THROUGH THAT. YOU KNOW ABOUT THOSE. UM, WHEN YOU FIND OUT THE CODE IS VIOLATED, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE I THINK EVERY CITY AND, AND DALLAS INCLUDED NEEDS TO IMPROVE. AND THAT IS THIS. WHEN YOU ARE AWARE, WHEN YOU KNOW, NOT THINK, OR SUSPECT THAT THE CODE HAS BEEN VIOLATED, YOU'RE UNDER A DUTY TO REPORT. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT. NOW, THERE WILL BE AN INVESTIGATION. OH, EXCUSE ME. THIS IS HOW YOU REPORT. IT'S THROUGH THE WHISTLE. IT'S NOT BY SENDING ME OR YOUR COUNCIL MEMBER OR THE MAYOR OR, OR AN EMAIL OR PUTTING IT ON FACEBOOK. YOU USE THIS. IT GOES TO A THIRD PARTY. THIS IS HOW WE MAKE THE TRAIL AUDITABLE AND, AND ORDERLY. SO PLEASE USE THAT. IT'S REALLY, REALLY EASY. AND YOU CAN MAKE THE COMPLAINT ANONYMOUSLY. UH, THERE'S GONNA BE AN INVESTIGATION. YOU'RE REQUIRED TO COOPERATE. AND LISTEN TO THIS, PLEASE HEAR THIS ONE. MAINTAIN CON- CONFIDENTIALITY. INVESTIGATIONS, THE, THE FUEL THAT KEEPS THEM ALIVE IS CONFIDENTIALITY. IT'S NOT YOUR JOB TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE THAT THERE'S AN INVESTIGATION, SO PLEASE DON'T, AND IT'S A VIOLATION OF THE CODE. TELL THE TRUTH, DON'T INTERFERE, DON'T RETALIATE. I'LL BE PASSING OUT THIS POCKET REFERENCE GUIDE. WE HAVE A VERY USEFUL WEBSITE. WE ALSO HAVE A SHAREPOINT SITE IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE CALLED ETHICAL WAY. AND THERE IS MY NAME. AND I, I DIDN'T TELL THE TRUTH, BUT JUST TAKE BARON.ELIASON@DALLAS.GOV, AND YOU HAVE MY EMAIL, AND I'D LOVE TO HELP YOU. REPEAT THAT AGAIN FOR THOSE THAT DIDN'T GET THE REPORTING. IT'S [02:50:01] BARON.ELIASON@DALLAS.GOV. OKAY. DID THE THREE OF YOU GET THAT, I HOPE? THEN WE'LL GO TO MS. LAM, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA COMPLETE THIS PHASE. MS. LAMB? I THINK ONE THING, UM, ALSO WANNA MENTION THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST, NOT TO THIS BOARD, BUT THERE'S BEEN ETHICS COMPLAINTS FILED AGAINST FORMER COUNCIL MEMBERS FOR THIS, UM, IS WHEN EMAILS GO OUT FROM STAFF AND WE'RE ALL ON IT, EVEN IF WE'RE BCC'D, NOT TO REPLY ALL, BECAUSE ONCE WE RE- REPLY ALL, THEN TECHNICALLY WE ARE A WALKING QUORUM. SO I- IF AN EMAIL COMES FROM CITY STAFF, AND IF YOU WANNA ELABORATE ON THAT. SURE. UM, AND WE MAY NOT ALL BE BCC'D. WE MAY BE JUST BC- BCC'D. NO, IT'S CALLED A WALKING QUORUM, AND IT'S REALLY EASY TO DO. THAT IS SOMETHING I'M SURE THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS, IS GOING TO COVER. IF NOT, YOU SHOULD REQUEST TRAINING ON THE TEXAS OPEN MEETING ACT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND THAT'S GONNA... WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SEGMENT ON THAT - YEAH. THIS AFTERNOON. YEAH, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE WHOLE WA - QUORUM ISSUE AND WALKING QUORUM ISSUE. UH, UH, OUR BOARD OF M - ATTORNEY EMERITUS WILL BE PRESENTING ON THAT THIS AFTERNOON. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM MR. UH, INSPECTOR GENERAL? NOT INTERIM, BUT THE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE IT. UH, WE WILL HAVE YOU BACK HERE NEXT YEAR AGAIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANKS FOR WHAT YOU DO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT. UH, BOARD MEMBERS, WE'RE GONNA TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE RESTROOM BREAK. IT'S 11:52 AM ON THE 3RD OF NOVEMBER. WE'RE GONNA RECESS UNTIL 11:57 AM. WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'RE GONNA DO THE, UM, PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT PORTION, WHICH IS DR. MILLER, UH, HOSKINS' PORTION. THEN WE'LL TAKE LUNCH, THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND DO THE BOARD ATTORNEY, AND THEN OUR ACTION ITEMS. SO WE ARE IN RECESS UNTIL 11:57 AM. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. IT IS 11:58 M - 11:58 AM ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3RD. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UM, MEETING IS CALLED BACK TO ORDER. UM, MEMBERS, WHAT WE'RE GONNA TRY TO DO IS WE'RE NOW [VII. Board Training (Part 1 of 2)] IN THE SECTION FROM THE BOARD ADMINISTER AND CHIEF PLANNERS SECTION WHERE WE'RE GONNA DO, UH, BOA TEAM INTRODUCTIONS, THEN APPLICANT FLOW CHART, THEN ONLINE TRAINING MODULE, AND PARKING S - EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES, THEN DALLAS ZONING REFORM UPDATE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA GET THROUGH ALL THAT BY THE TIME WE ALL DECIDE TO BREAK FOR LUNCH, WHICH WILL EITHER BE 12:30, 12:45. SO WE'LL SEE IS HOW FAR WE CAN GET INTO THIS, THIS LIST. UM, AND THEN WE'LL BREAK FOR LUNCH, AND THEN WE'LL FINISH THAT UP AFTER LUNCH, AND THEN GO TO THE BOARD ATTORNEY SECTION, AND THEN DO, UH, ACTION ITEMS. SO, UM, IT'S ALWAYS DANGEROUS WHEN YOU N - PUT A TIME ON WHEN LUNCH IS GONNA BE, BECAUSE THEN EVERYONE'S LOOKING AT THE TIME. SO I JUST SAID 12:45 AT THE LATEST. UM, ALL RIGHT. UH, BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, MS. UH, DR. KAMIKA MILLER-HOSKINS. GOOD MORNING, ALMOST AFTERNOON AGAIN, EVERYONE. I AM DR. KAMIKA MILLER-HOSKINS, CHIEF PLANNER FOR THE BOARD OF, UM, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. I WILL BEGIN BY, UM, INTRODUCING THE TEAM, STARTING OUT WITH MY MANAGER, UM, OVER THE ZONING DIVISION, MS. SARAH MAY. WHERE'S SARAH? SARAH. OKAY, COME BACK THIS WAY, SARAH, SO WE ALL SEE YOU CAN SMILE. SHE'S USUALLY AT THE BACK TABLE AT EACH OF OUR HEARINGS, OKAY? ALL RIGHT? WELL, WE LIKE HER SMILE. IT'S USUALLY A GOOD SIGN, UM, AMELIA. ALL RIGHT, GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT, SO NEXT WE HAVE, UM - WAIT, HOLD ON, ONE SECOND. JUST BECAUSE I LOVE TO PUT PEOPLE ON THE SPOT. COME ON, SARAH. COME BACK TO THE MICROPHONE FOR A QUICK SECOND. I WON'T DO THIS TO THE REST OF YOUR TEAM, BUT I'M GONNA DO SARAH. SARAH, TELL US WHAT, UM, DEPARTMENTS THAT YOU HAVE BESIDES BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. UM, SO I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF, UH, SUPERVISING AND MANAGING, UH, THREE DIFFERENT THINGS, THREE DIFFERENT TEAMS ON A NORMAL BASIS, AND I AM TEMPORARILY HELPING A FOURTH. UM, SO MY PERMANENT THREE ARE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT STAFF, THE CURRENT PLANNING STAFF, WHICH ARE THE PEOPLE THAT TAKE ALL THE ZONING CASES BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUS - SORRY, BEFORE CITY PLAN COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL. UM, AND I'M ALSO SUPERVISING THE SIGN TEAM. SO, UM, THE SUPERVISOR THAT, YOU KNOW, ANSWERS ALL, LIKE, THE SIGN QUESTIONS THAT WHEN Y'ALL HAVE SIGNED CASES, UM, HIS STAFF REVIEWS AND APPROVES SIGN PERMITS. UM, HE ALSO TAKES FORWARD ANY, UM, GEOGRAPHICAL SIGN REGULATION CHANGES BEFORE THE SIGN AT SPECIAL PURPOSE SIGN DISTRICT COMMITTEE, I THINK, UM, CPC AND CITY COUNCIL. UM, AND THE TEMPORARY BONUS ONE, UM, ARE THE ZONING PLAN REVIEWERS. SO THAT'S BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, PLANNING [02:55:01] COMMISSION, UM, SIGNS, AND... ZONING PLAN REVIEWS. ZONING PLAN REVIEW. OKAY. SO PEOPLE REVIEWING COMMERCIAL PERMITS - AND, AND... FOR ZONING COMPLIANCE. AND SARAH WAS A BOARD ADMINISTRATOR MANY MOONS AGO. WE'LL JUST SAY IT THAT WAY. SO WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE A FORMER BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AS THE MANAGER ABOVE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UM, SO THAT... AND SHE REGULARLY ATTENDS THE MEETINGS. YOU DON'T HEAR FROM HER, GENERALLY NOT, AND THAT SORT OF THING, BECAUSE KAMIKA'S RUNNING THE SHOW WITH THE STAFF, BUT IT'S... I'VE COMPLIMENTED HER AND MENTIONED TO MS. LIU THAT IT'S A POSITIVE THING TO HAVE THE NEXT LEVEL UP IN THE ROOM SO THEY KE- KEEP AN EYE ON THE OVERALL CONTEXT AND, AND PROGRESS OF THE BOARD. SO THANK YOU, SARAH. THANK YOU. AND SHE WAS MY REINTRODUCTION TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FIVE YEARS AGO AT ACMAC. WE SPENT A DAY TOGETHER AND INTRODUCED ME TO DIANA BARKUM, WHO'S ABOUT TO GIVE US OUR NEXT PRESENTATION IN A SHORTLY. BUT THANK YOU, SARAH. UM, SO THE NEXT TEAM MEMBER, UM, IS DIANA BARKUM, WHO IS OUR SENIOR PROJECT COORDINATOR. STAND UP, DIANA. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING, JUST STAND UP, OKAY? AND WHAT DOES SHE DO IN THAT ROLE? SHE OVERSEES OUR INTAKE TEAM, OUR APPLICATION INTAKE PROCESS. OKAY. UM, SO NEXT, WE HAVE MR. BRIAN THOMPSON, WHO IS A SENIOR PLANNER WHO HANDLES ALL OF OUR CASE REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS. MR. THOMPSON, PLEASE, PLEASE STAND. THANK YOU. WE ALL KNOW OF HIM. NEXT, WE HAVE MR. JAMIE MILLER, WHO IS ALSO A SENIOR PLANNER. HE'S BEEN WITH US NOW FOR ABOUT FOUR MONTHS. OKAY. AND HE DOES THE SAME THING AS MR. THOMPSON, CASE REPORTS, PRESENTATION, SITE VISITS, AND THINGS OF THAT SORT. AND LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, MS. SHEILA HATCHETT, WHO IS OUR PLANNER TWO, WHO IS WORKING, UM, WITH OUR INTAKE TEAM. UM, MAYOR WILLIAMS IS NOT DIRECTLY UNDER ME, BUT SHE'S A PART OF OUR TEAM, AND OF COURSE SHE'S OUR BOARD SECRETARY. YES. OKAY, VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO NOW WE WILL MOVE INTO OUR APPLICATION FLOW CHART, AND IT WILL BE PRESENTED BY MS. DIANA BARKUM. I REQUESTED THAT THE STAFF PUT THIS ON THEIR TRAINING MODULE BECAUSE I WANT EACH OF US TO KNOW HOW THE PROCESS WORKS AND TO BE ABLE TO JUST BE QUEUED IN ON THIS. AND SO, UM, SO THEY'RE AVAILABLE. DIANA IS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AS SHE GOES. DIANA, PLEASE PROCEED. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. UH, MY NAME IS DIANA BARKUM, AND I'M THE SENIOR PROJECT COORDINATOR FOR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND I'VE BEEN, UH, TASKED TO, UH, GO OVER OUR, UM, BOA CASE PROCESS FROM THE APPLICATION INTAKE TO THE, UM, FINAL DECISION. THIS IS OUR BOA CASE PROCESS, UH, WORKFLOW. THERE ARE SIX STEPS, AND I'LL BRIEFLY GO OVER EACH ONE. UM - A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. OKAY. BETTER? OKAY. UM, THE FIRST ONE IS THE APPLICANT PROPERTY OWNER CONSULTATION. IT COULD BE DONE BY PHONE, EMAIL, IN PERSON, OR VIRTUAL. UM, THIS IS WHEN WE DISCUSS THE PROPOSED APPLICATION AND, UH, BOARD CONSIDERATIONS AND DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT THEY MAY HAVE. UH, WE REVIEW THE - SO WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS? IS IT MAINLY BY PHONE? IS IT MAINLY BY EMAIL? UM - PEOPLE, DO PEOPLE STILL SHOW UP IN PERSON? YES. OH, YES. WE, WE GET PLENTY OF WALK-INS, WE GET REFERRALS, WE GET PHONE CALLS. IT, IT'S PRETTY MUCH EVEN. UM, THE ONE VIRTUAL IS BY REQUEST, OBVIOUSLY, BUT, UM, BUT YEAH, WE, WE GET A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING. UM, SO YEAH, SO THAT'S WHEN WE DISCUSS, UH, OTHER OPTIONS THEY, THEY MAY HAVE, THE, UM, APPLICATION, UH, REQUIREMENTS AND PROCESS, AND, UM, THE ANTICIPATED TIMELINE AND PRE-SCREENING. UM, IF THEY CHOOSE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, UH, BOA, THEN THE APPLICANT, UM, IS TOLD TO GATHER THE INFORMATION FROM THE CHECKLIST. QUESTION FOR YOU. YES. IS THIS PROCESS DONE WITH EVERY APPLICANT? N - THE CONSULTATION? ALL THIS THAT YOU'RE SHOWING US TODAY. UM, NOT NECESSARILY. THERE ARE APPLICANTS THAT ARE REGULARS. THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO, SO THEY JUST, UM, SEND US THE PRE-SCREENING. THE REASON WHY I'M ASKING HER THIS IS THERE ARE, SEEMS TO BE QUITE FREQUENT WHERE WE HAVE AN APPLICANT THAT COMES BEFORE US AND SAYS, "WELL, NO ONE TOLD ME THIS," OR, "I DIDN'T KNOW THAT," OR, "I DIDN'T KNOW THIS." AND I'M ALWAYS TURNING TO OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND SAYING, "WHAT?" AND SHE'S NODDING HER HEAD OR SHAKING HER HEAD SAYING, "OH, YES, WE DID COMMUNICATE." I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THE CHECKLIST THAT Y - THAT THE STAFF GOES THROUGH - YES. CONSISTENTLY. NOW, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE CONSULTATION PROCESS, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DO KNOW THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PROCESS, SO THEY'LL JUST AUTOMATICALLY GO, JUMP THE CONSULTATION, THEY'LL GO STRAIGHT TO PRE-SCREEN, AND THEY JUST SEND US THE PRE-SCREEN AT FIRST. UM, THERE ARE APPLICANTS THAT THE GUN AND THEY SUBMIT [03:00:01] THROUGH DALLAS NOW, WHICH THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A PRE-SCREEN FIRST. UM, SO IT JUST KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHICH MOVE THEY MADE FIRST. UM, SO AGAIN, IF THEY DECIDE TO GO THROUGH THE, UM, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPLICATION PROCESS, UM, THEY WILL GATHER ALL THE INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICATION PACKET. THERE'S A CHECKLIST THAT THEY GO OFF OF, AND THAT'S WHERE, UM, WE VERIFY THE PLANS THAT THEY PROVIDE US, THE OWNERSHIP, THE, UM, MAKE SURE THE REQUESTS ARE CORRECT, UM, THERE'S NO LIENS ON THE PROPERTY, THEY DON'T OWE ANY TAXES, JUST EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED FROM THE CHECKLIST. UM, AND WE IDENTIFY ANY MISSING INFORMATION. IF THERE IS MISSING INFORMATION, THEN WE SEND IT BACK TO THE APPLICANT AND LET THEM KNOW, UM, VIA EMAIL TYPICALLY WHAT THEY NEED TO PROVIDE TO US. UM, AND THEIR APPLICATION JUST GOES BACK IN THE S - ONCE THEY, ONCE THEY, UM, GET THE REVISIONS CORRECTED, THEN THEY HAVE TO SEND IT BACK TO US AND THEY JUST GO BACK INTO THE REVIEW QUEUE. UM, IF IT, THEY HAVE EVERYTHING FOR US, THEN WE, UM, ADVISE THEM TO GO AHEAD AND SUBMIT THROUGH DALLAS NOW. AND THAT TAKES US TO OUR THIRD STEP, THE CASE INTAKE. AND, UM, THIS IS WHERE WE ACCEPT THE CASE, WE VERIFY ALL THE REQUESTS. QUESTION FOR YOU. UH-HUH. UH, I THINK THE STAFF AND THE BOARD HAVE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS GOING FROM 93 DAYS, I LOVE REPEATING THAT TO MS. LIU. SHE WASN'T HERE BACK THEN. FROM 93 DAYS DOWN TO, WHAT'S THE NUMBER THAT YOU'RE REPORTING TODAY, MS. BOARD ADMINISTER? 55. 54. 54. 54 DAYS. 93 TO 54. WHEN DOES YOUR CLOCK START ON THAT MEASUREMENT? OKAY, SO THERE'S THOSE THREE THINGS. I BELIEVE I PUT IT ON HERE. UM, THEY DO NEED A PRE-SCREEN. UM, THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT THROUGH DALLAS NOW AND PAY THE FEES AND PICK UP SIGNS. THAT'S WHEN THE CLOCKS, ACTUALLY, IT STARTS ONCE THEY, UM, PAY THE FEES. THAT, THIS IS WHEN I WANT - THEY, THEY PAY THE FEES. WHEN THEY PAY THE FEES. THEY PAY THE FEES, THAT'S WHEN THE CLOCK STARTS, YES. OKAY. OKAY. UM - YES, MS. LAMB. UM, IT, OUTSIDE OF THOSE THAT HAVE REPRESENTATIVES, YOU KNOW, LIKE A ZONING OR LAND USE CONSULTANT, THOSE THAT ARE IN THE PUBLIC THAT ARE, ARE SUBMITTING ON THEIR OWN, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FROM WHEN THEY INITIALLY REACH OUT TO Y'ALL AND THEY MAY HAVE ERRORS IN THEIR APPLICATION. HOW, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE THE NORMAL PUBLIC TO THEN GET INTO THE QUEUE? IS THAT, IS IT - I'M NOT SURE I'M FOLLOWING YOU. BECAUSE YOU, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE, THE CLOCK STARTS ONCE THEY PAY THEIR FEES, BUT I'M CURIOUS HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR PEOPLE WHEN THEY INITIALLY REACH OUT AND SAY, "HEY, I NEED TO, I NEED TO FILE AN APPLICATION TO GO IN FRONT OF THE BOARD." HOW LONG, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE IN TERMS OF COMMUNICATION WITH YOU TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY'VE PAID THEIR FEES AND THE APPLICATION IS ALL, ALL LINED UP? WE, WE TRY TO PRE-SCREEN BETWEEN THREE AND FIVE DAYS. OKAY. UM, AND THEN GET THOSE BACK. OBVIOUSLY, IT JUST DEPENDS. WE WERE SHORT-STAFFED LAST YEAR, SO THAT TOOK A LITTLE BIT LONGER. OKAY. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO GET BACK TO THEM PRETTY QUICK. UM, SO JUST TO GET, GET OUR COMMENTS TOGETHER, SEND THEM AN EMAIL, AND THEN THEY COULD TAKE A WEEK OR TWO TO GET BACK TO US. OKAY. YOU KNOW, SO WE DON'T WAIT ON THEM. WE HAVE TO KEEP THESE APPLICATIONS MOVING. OKAY. SO DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YES. THANK YOU. OKAY. AND I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT JUST BECAUSE, SO WE DON'T REALLY COUNT JUST COMMUNICATION BECAUSE SOMEONE CAN JUST REACH OUT AND HAVE, YOU KNOW, A, JUST A GENERAL INQUIRY AND NEVER GET BACK, YOU KNOW, TO US. AND EVEN IF THEY DO GET BACK TO US, IT COULD BE TWO OR THREE MONTHS, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE ROAD. SO WE WOULDN'T FACTOR THAT INTO THE TIMELINE. THE TIMELINE, UM, STARTS AGAIN WHEN THE FEES AND ALL OF THOSE, UM, ITEMS ARE PAID. BUT AGAIN, TO DIANA'S POINT, ONCE THEY SUBMIT FOR THEIR ACTUAL PRE-SCREEN OR CONSULTATION, WE TRY TO GET THAT DONE WITHIN THE THREE TO FIVE BUSINESS DAYS. OKAY. I WAS JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE EASE OF THE PUBLIC IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT TAKES TO GET TO THAT POINT WHERE THEY'VE PAID THEIR FEE AND THEIR APPLICATION IS SET. WELL, WE, WE INVOICE THEM, SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA PAY THE FEE BEFORE THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE REQUESTS ARE CORRECT. SO WE'LL, I, I, I TYPICALLY SEND THEM AN EMAIL AND SAY, "HEY, WE'VE INVOICED YOU, YOU KNOW, GO INTO YOUR DALLAS ACCOUNT," AND GIVE THEM STEPS ON HOW TO DO THAT ALSO. AND THEY ARE GIVEN A CHECKLIST. SO, UM, AND THE CHECKLIST IS ALSO MADE AVAILABLE ONLINE. SO SOMETIMES THEY, THEY COME TO US ALREADY WITH THE CHECKLIST PRINTED OUT AND THEY'LL COME AND WALK INTO THE OFFICE AND SAY, "I HAVE THESE DOCUMENTS. DO I NEED ANYTHING ELSE?" AND WE'LL JUST GO THROUGH THE CHECKLIST WITH THEM PRIOR TO THEM ACTUALLY SUBMITTING. MR. HAPKOVITZ. UH, ASK THE STAFF BEFORE I ASK THIS QUESTION NOT TO THROW ANYTHING AT ME. UH, WHAT, DID THE CLOCK START WHEN THE FEE WAS PAID WHEN IT WAS 93 DAYS? TALKING ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO? I DON'T KNOW. I JUST REMEMBER WALKING INTO THIS PROCESS AND GOING, "IT'S TAKING THREE MONTHS BETWEEN THE APP-" I, SO I DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT WAS. UM, AND I, I'M GONNA, I JUST LOVE TALKING ABOUT 93 BECAUSE IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. UM - I'M JUST ASKING TO SEE IF THOSE ARE COMPARABLE METRICS. UH, OH, I DON'T WANNA GO BACK TO ALL THAT DATA. I'M JUST GONNA ASSUME THAT IT IS COMPARABLE AND THAT THEY'RE DOING A SUPERIOR JOB OF BEING RESPONSIVE. AND THAT'S WHY [03:05:01] IF YOU NOTICE AT YOUR CASE REPORTS WHEN, UH, JAMIE, EXCUSE ME, MR. MILLER OR MR. THOMPSON PRESENT, THEY, THEY SAY THE PRIMARY METRIC, THEY SAY ON THE COVER SHEET OF HOW MANY DAYS, BECAUSE PART OF THEIR TASKING IS HOW MANY DAYS BETWEEN FEES PAID OR IS THERE A DECISION BEFORE THE BOARD? OKAY. DR. GLOVER. UM, I'M UNDERSTANDING FROM WHAT YOU SAID THAT THERE ARE TWO PROCESSES, THE REGULAR PROCESS AND THE DALLAS NOW PROCESS. CAN YOU SHED MORE LIGHT ON WHY SOMEONE WOULD PREFER TO GO THE DALLAS NOW PROCESS VERSUS - IT'S ONE PROCESS. IT'S JUST ONE PROCESS? YES. YES. OKAY. YES. I APOLOGIZE. SO WE, WE, WE TRANSITION FROM PAPER SUBMITTALS TO DIGITAL SUBMITTALS. SO IT'S, IT'S JUST ONE PROCESS. SO THE, THE APPLICANT SUBMITS ALL THE DOCUMENTS TO US FOR PRE-SCREEN. WE REVIEW IT, WE CHECK THE ZONING, ALL OF THAT, MAKE SURE THE PLANS ARE TO SCALE. AND THEN ONCE WE HAVE EVERYTHING, THEN WE, UM, WE TELL THEM TO SUBMIT THROUGH DALLAS NOW. AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE ALL THE DOCUMENTS. UM, WE REVIEW THEM AGAIN BECAUSE THERE'S TIMES WHERE THEY MAKE CHANGES WITHOUT TELLING US, SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT'S THE SAME, UH, REQUEST. AND THEN WE FINALIZE WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD FOR. SO IT'S KIND OF ALL - WERE YOU CONFUSED ABOUT THE PRE-SCREEN PROCESS AND THEN THE ACTUAL INTAKE PROCESS? OKAY. SO IT'S TYPICALLY ALL ONE PROCESS. IT'S JUST DIFFERENT STEPS THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH TO GET TO THE FINAL INTAKE PROCESS THROUGH DALLAS NOW. SO THEY SHOULD NOT DO THAT BECAUSE IF THEY JUST GO AND SUBMIT INTO DALLAS NOW WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE PRE-SCREEN PROCESS, WE DON'T GET NOTIFIED IF THEY JUST GO AHEAD AND SUBMIT. SO THE APPLICATION JUST SITS THERE. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE PROCESS AND GO THROUGH THEIR PRE-SCREEN PROCESS. MS. BARKUM - YES SIR. ARE THERE ANY PAPER APPLICATIONS ANYMORE OR THAT'S GONE? THERE'S STILL PAPER APPLICATIONS AND WE USE THOSE AT TIMES FOR, UM, FOR PRE-SCREENS BECAUSE WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE COMING TO THE BOARD FOR. UM, BUT THEY DON'T SUBMIT IT. ONCE IT GOES THROUGH DALLAS NOW, WE DON'T HAVE THAT APPLICATION ANYMORE. ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN CONTINUE. OKAY. UH - OH. MR. ZASHINGTON. UM, ACCESSIBILITY THOUGH, JUST TO, JUST THINKING, YOU MAY HAVE A 75-YEAR-OLD PERSON THAT'S NOT VERY TECHNICALLY SAVVY OR EVEN HAS ACCESS OR KNOWS HOW TO WHATEVER, WHATEVER. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, UH, UH, UM, LET ME REMOVE AGE. IT COULD BE A PERSON THAT'S JUST NOT TECHNICALLY SAVVY OR DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO SUBMIT DIGITALLY. DO WE STILL HAVE OPTIONS? YES. WE, WE WORK WITH, WE WORK WITH THEM AND IT'S, THERE HAS BEEN TIMES WHEN DIANA HAS SAT DOWN WITH SOMEONE THAT WAS OLDER. SHE CAN'T ACTUALLY DO IT FOR THEM, BUT SHE WALKS THEM THROUGH THE PROCESS. ACTUALLY, WE CAN DO IT FOR THEM, BUT WE'RE THERE, THEY'RE WITH US AND THEY'RE PROVIDING US WITH THE PHYSICAL DOCUMENTS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE LIKE A SCANNER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO WE DO CREATE IT FOR THEM, BUT THEY'RE THERE THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. YEAH. UM, OKAY. NOT SURE WHERE I LEFT OFF. SO THEY MAKE THE PAYMENT. UM, AND THEN TYPICALLY AFTER THEY MAKE THE PAYMENT, THEY HAVE TO COME PICK UP THEIR SIGNS. SO WE SCHEDULE A POST-INTAKE, UH, MEETING, AND THAT IS WHEN - THIS IS ALL DONE AT CITY HALL ON THE FIFTH FLOOR? YES, SIR. IN YOUR OFFICES? YES, SIR. OKAY. YES. UM, AND THEN I KNOW THERE, THERE'S BEEN SOME TIMES, I KIND OF JUST, THIS WASN'T PART OF THE, THE WORKFLOW HERE, BUT, UM, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN TIMES WHERE APPLICANTS DO SAY THAT THEY DON'T RECEIVE THE, THE STANDARDS OR THEY DON'T RECEIVE, UM, THE TYPE OF DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE. SO I JUST WANTED TO SHOW YOU THAT I DO HAVE, I SEND AN EMAIL OUT TELLING THEM THAT THEY HAVE AN UPCOMING, UPCOMING BOARD HEARING. AND THIS IS BEFORE THE SENIOR PLANNERS SEND OUT THEIR INTRODUCTORY EMAIL, UM, JUST GIVING THEM SOME DEADLINES THAT ARE COMING UP. AND, UM, I DO PROVIDE THEM WITH SOME DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE EXAMPLES.THIS ISN'T FOR EVERY SINGLE TYPE OF CASE, BUT IT IS SOME KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT, UM, THAT THEY COULD PROVIDE. SO JUST WANTED TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THAT. UM, SO THEN THEY COME PICK UP THEIR, THEIR, UM, THEIR SIGNS AND I PROVIDE THEM WITH THIS INFORMATION, UH, A PHYSICAL COPY AS WELL. AND THEN, UM - AND MS. BARCUM - UH-HUH. UH, WHEN YOU SAY YOU GIVE THEM THE SIGNS, YOU ALSO T - DOES IT, DOES THE FORM THEY SIGN, DOES IT TELL THEM WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO POST IT? YES. AND THEY DO GET AN EMAIL, UM, WITH THIS EMAIL THAT I'M TELLING YOU. OKAY. I, I COULD SEND IT AROUND IF YOU'D LIKE. NO, NO. UM, WE'RE FINE. WE TRUST YOU. YEAH. IT DOES TELL YOU WHERE THEY SHOULD PLACE THE SIGNS AND - OKAY. UM, WHEN THEY NEED TO PLACE THEM BY AND THEN, UM - OKAY. IF THEY WANNA MEET AGAIN FOR, YOU KNOW, TO GO OVER THE, THE EVIDENCE A- AGAIN. UM, SO THEN ONCE THEY HAVE THEIR, THEIR, THEIR SIGNS, THEY'RE GOOD TO GO. UM, THE SIGNS, THE, THE CASES GO TO THE BOARD SECRETARY AND, UM, [03:10:01] THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, AND THAT IS WHEN THEY, UH, AS- ASSIGN A PANEL AND ASSIGN THE, UM - IT'S THE BOARD SECRETARY. THE BOARD SECRETARY. THE BOARD SECRETARY BLINDLY, RANDOMLY INDEPENDENT - YES. ASSIGNS THE CASES. YES. TO THE PANELS. YES. AND WHY DON'T YOU SAY THAT TO THEM? AND, AND - GO, GO AHEAD. LET'S COMMUNICATE THAT. SO AS SHE WAS SAYING, UM, THE CASES GO TO THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND MYSELF. THE BOARD ADMINIS - THE BOARD SECRETARY RANDOMLY, UM, SELECTS THE PANEL ASSIGNMENT, RANDOMLY ASSIGNS THE CASES TO A PANEL, WHEREAS I WILL, UM, RANDOMLY ASSIGN THE CASES TO EACH SENIOR PLANNER. OKAY. AND DURING THAT SAME PROCESS, THE SENIOR PLANNERS, UM, THEY COORDINATE A SITE VISIT, AND THAT'S WHEN THEY PREPARE, UH, OR START PREPARING THEIR STAFF REPORT. THEY SEND OUT THEIR INTRODUCTORY EMAIL, UH, PREPARE THEIR RECOMMENDATION AND THEIR HEARING - HOLD ON ONE SECOND. ALL RIGHT. SO WHEN THE SENIOR PLANNERS GO TO THE SITES, UH, DO THEY NOTIFY THE PROPERTY OWNER? NO. SO IT'S ALWAYS UNNOTIFIED? NOT... YES, CORRECT. OKAY. OKAY. MR. SASHINGTON. I'M SORRY, UH, CHAIR. UM, JUST DR. UM, MILLER HOSKINS. WHEN YOU'RE ASSIGNING TO CITY PLANNERS, UM, DOES IT MATTER ABOUT THE CASE COMPLEXITY OR IS EVERY CITY PLANNER, UM, EQUIPPED TO HANDLE ANY TYPE OF CASE? SO IN THE PAST, THERE REALLY WASN'T A WHOLE LOT OF, UM, COMPLEXITY ISSUES, BUT OF COURSE, WE'RE ONBOARDING MR. MILLER, SO I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY GIVE HIM ANYTHING TOO COMPLEX, ALTHOUGH HE IS CAPABLE OF, HE IS TRULY - I'VE HEARD HIM, HE'S PRETTY GOOD. HIGHLY CAPABLE OF PRESENTING - HE, HE, HE'S GIVING THOMPSON A RUN FOR HIS MONEY. MM-HMM. BUT I DO TRY TO BE MINDFUL AT THIS TIME OF WHICH CASES GO WHERE. THE SYSTEM IS SET UP SO THAT WE, BOARD MEMBERS OR PANELS DON'T CHOOSE OUR CASES. SO MS. WILLIAMS' BOARD SECRETARY HAS A SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT EENY, MEENIE, MINI MOAN, CATCH A BUNNY BITE'S TOE, EENIE MINI, WHATEVER THAT THING IS. I CAN'T SAY IT. YEAH. SO, OKAY. KEEP GOING. OKAY. DR. GLOVER. I, I DID NOT HEAR YOU MENTION THAT, UM, APPLICANTS ARE ACTUALLY TOLD TO PLACE THE, UM, UH, WHAT'S IT CALLED? THE NOTIFICATIONS ON THEIR SITE BECAUSE IT'S CONSEQUENTIAL TOWARDS THEIR CASE. YES, THEY ARE TOLD. WE, UM, AFTER IT'S BEEN, WHEN THEY COME PICK UP THEIR SIGNS, WE DO GO OVER WHERE THEY SHOULD PLACE IT AND THEY ALSO GET AN EMAIL, FOLLOW-UP EMAIL SAYING WHERE THEY SHOULD PLACE THE SIGNS. UM, WE ALSO TELL THEM TO TAKE PICTURES OF THOSE SIGNS, UM, JUST FOR PROOF THAT THEY POSTED THEM. AND, UM, IN CASE THEY GET LOST OR STOLEN, DAMAGED, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, WE DON'T HAVE TO CHARGE THEM FOR A REPLACEMENT. AND WE HAD A RASH OF CASES THAT BUBBLED THROUGH WHERE THE SIGNS, THE LOCATION OF THE SIGNS AND THE SIGNS BEING PRESENT WAS IN QUESTION. SO, UH, MAYBE IT WAS A YEAR AGO, MAYBE MORE. SO I ASKED THE STAFF IF, WHEN THEY GO OUT, TAKE A PICTURE OF THE SIGN THAT SHOWS IT'S BEEN PROPERLY, PROPERLY POSTED. SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE OF YOUR PLANNERS GO OUT ON THEIR VISITS AND THE SIGN IS SOMEHOW MISSING OR IMPROPERLY POSTED, MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR? SO WHEN THE SENIOR PLANNERS GO OUT AND NOTICE THAT THE SIGN ISN'T ON THE PROPERTY AT ALL, OR IF IT'S POSTED AND IT'S NOT VISIBLE, UM, THEY COME BACK TO THE OFFICE AFTER THEY'VE CONDUCTED THEIR VISITS AND SEND THE PROPERTY OWNER AN EMAIL, BASICALLY LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THEY DID A SITE VISIT, THE SIGN WASN'T POSTED, AND THAT THEY SHOULD POST IT, YOU KNOW, AS TO NOT CAUSE ANY POSTPONEMENT OR DELAYS WITH THEIR CASE. AND ONCE THEY, THEY SEND THAT COMMUNICATION AND THE PROPERTY OWNER SOMETIME RESPOND, BUT THEY WILL GO BACK OUT, UM, FOR A SECOND VISIT PRIOR, BEFORE THE MEETING, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS PROPERLY POSTED BECAUSE IF THEY GO OUT TWO OR THREE TIMES AND IT'S NOT POSTED, THEN THAT'S A PROBLEM. AND THERE'S ALSO BEEN, UM, INSTANCES WHERE THEY DON'T EVEN COME PICK UP THEIR SIGNS, UM, SO THAT'S WHEN WE HOLD THE CASE OR POSTPONE THE CASE OURSELVES. OKAY. DR. GLOVER, HOW MANY DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING IS JUST DONE? SO CAN I HAVE A... CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? HOW MANY DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING IS, THIS DONE, THE FIRST AND SECOND SITE VISITS? HOW MANY DAYS? UM, THEY GO OUT RANDOM. YEAH, THEY GO OUT RANDOM. OKAY. UM, AND THAT BRINGS US TO OUR PUBLIC HEARING, AND THAT'S WHEN THE SENIOR PLANNERS PRESENT THEIR CASE TO THE BOARD MEMBERS. LET'S GO BACK A STEP. YEAH, WE LOST YOUR SCREEN, BUT LET'S GO BACK A STEP. OH. AND, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA EXPLAIN THAT OR THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, THE STAFF COMES TOGETHER AND COMES UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION. [03:15:02] I DON'T, I FORGOT THE NAME OF WHAT THAT MEETING'S CALLED. WE HAVE A STAFF REVIEW TEAM MEETING. UM, IT'S TYPICALLY HELD ON THE LAST TUESDAY OF EACH MONTH FOR THE UPCOMING DOCKET. AND DURING THAT TIME, UM, WE MEET WITH OUR DEPARTMENT AND ANY OTHER DEPARTMENT THAT HAS A CASE, UM, WHETHER IT'S SOMEONE FROM THE CONSERVATION DISTRICT, UM, THE ARBORIST, UM, SOMEONE FROM THE RESIDENTIAL TEAM, WE ALL MEET AND DISCUSS THE CASE. AND THAT'S WHEN THE, UM, SENIOR PLANNER PRESENTS THEIR RECOMMENDATION AND WE ALL DISCUSS THEIR RECOMMENDATION TO SEE IF IT'S A FEASIBLE RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. WHICH PART? I JUST WANT EACH ONE OF YOU ALL TO SEE THE STEPS INVOLVED HERE S - BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE'LL ASK, "WELL, HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR OR AGAINST?" AND YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, THERE'S NO STAFF RECOMMENDATION, BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS IN THE OPINION OF THE BOARD. WHEREAS THE VARIANCE HAS THREE SPECIFIC CRITERIA. AND WE'RE GONNA LEARN ABOUT, MORE ABOUT THAT THIS AFTERNOON. OKAY. AND, UM, FIVE AND SIX, THEY KINDA GO TOGETHER. THIS IS THE PUBLIC HEAR- HEARING PORTION. UM, SENIOR PLANNERS PRESENT THE CASE TO THE BOARD MEMBERS. UH, THE BOARD MEMBERS HEAR, UH, APPLICANT TESTIMONY AND PUBLIC INPUT, AND THE BOARD DELIBERATES. UM, AND YOU ALSO, THAT'S WHEN YOU, UH, THE BOARD MEMBERS, UH, RENDER A DECISION. AND THAT WOULD BE OUR FINAL STEP. WHAT QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE FOR MS. BARKUM REGARDING THE APPLICATION FLOW? OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, MS. BARKUM. THANK YOU. BARKUM. OKAY. UM, SO SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, THE STAFF EMBARKED ON A PROJECT. WE'RE ON PAGE 95 OF THE DOCKET. THE STAFF EMBARKED ON A PROJECT TO CREATE AN ONLINE TRAINING MODULE. ONE OF THE CHARGES THAT WE AS A BOARD HAVE ASKED THE STAFF FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW IS TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING. HOW DO WE GIVE NEW MEMBER TRAINING AND HOW DO WE PROVIDE, UM, EXISTING MEMBER TRAINING? AND SO I'M VERY PLEASED THAT WE'RE GONNA GET A LITTLE BIT OF A TEASER ON THIS ONLINE TRAINING MODULE, AND THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND I ARE GONNA PLAY A TAG TEAM. WE'RE NOT GONNA READ EVERY SLIDE. WE'RE NOT GONNA GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THING, BUT WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF TEASER, AND THEN I'M GONNA BE ASKING PEOPLE TO ANSWER BECAUSE THERE'S QUIZZES ALONG THE WAY. SO WE'RE GONNA, UH, THE, THIS ONLINE MODULE'S GONNA TALK ABOUT A SUBJECT, AND THEN THERE'S GONNA BE A MINI QUIZ, AND THERE'LL BE LIKE 10 TO 15 MINI QUIZZES. SO I'M GONNA PICK ON AS MANY OF YOU AS POSSIBLE, MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE STILL AWAKE. OKAY, ROGERS? I'M JUST GIVING YOU A HARD TIME, CASEY. OKAY. MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR. ALL RIGHT. SO, UH, MR. THOMPSON AND I, WE'VE WORKED, UM, DILIGENTLY WITH OUR TRAINING TEAM OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS TO TRY AND ROLL OUT THIS ONLINE, UM, TRAINING MODULE. AND I WANNA GIVE A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT TO MR. GRAHAM, MR. SLADE, MR. NEWMAN, AND MS. MAY FOR, UM, PARTICIPATING IN OUR PILOT AND PROVIDING FEASIBLE AND REASONABLE FEEDBACK, UM, SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THIS TOGETHER. WE'RE EXPECTED, EXPECTING TO HAVE IT ROLLED OUT, UM, JANUARY 1ST OF THE NEW YEAR. AND SO THE TRAINING IS, UM, FOR NEW MEMBERS AS WELL AS TO SERVE AS A REFRESHER FOR, UM, OUR CURRENT BOARD MEMBERS. SO WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THIS. IT HAS A TOTAL OF ABOUT 10 LESSONS. WE'RE NOT GONNA READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE, UM, TRAINING BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT, UM, YOU, YOU GUYS TO DO, SO WE'RE JUST GONNA KINDA BREEZE THROUGH IT. UM, JUST SPEAK ABOUT EACH OF THE TOPICS AND GET DOWN TO THE QUIZ. TOPIC QUIZ. TOPIC QUIZ. UH, THE MI - BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND I YESTERDAY WENT THROUGH A, A DRY RUN OF THIS AND WE CHANGED OUR FORMAT A COUPLE TIMES, SO HOPEFULLY WE'VE GOT THIS PERFECTED. WE WANNA DO IT QUICK ENOUGH THAT YOU GET THE POINT OF IT, BUT NOT TOO QUICK THAT IT PASSES BY YOU. OKAY. OF COURSE, THIS IS RIGHT BEFORE LUNCH, SO THAT'S ALWAYS DANGEROUS. ALL RIGHT. SO I'LL GET STARTED HERE WITH LESSON ONE, WHICH IS YOUR ROLE AND THE BOARD. AND THIS SECTION BASICALLY TALKS ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF THE BOARD, WHERE THE BOARD POWERS COME FROM, UM, ATTENDANCE THAT HELPS YOU KEEP YOUR SEAT AND HOW MEMBERS ARE APPOINTED. THERE ARE DIFFERENT SECTIONS HERE. UM, YOU CAN ACTUALLY READ IT OR YOU CAN CLICK ON THE LITTLE PLAY BUTTON AND IT'LL READ IT ALOUD FOR YOU. SO HERE IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DOES, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY. IT GIVES YOU DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT YOU CAN CLICK ON HERE. AND SO NOW WE'LL GET DOWN TO THE FIRST QUESTION. I CAN'T READ IT THERE. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD AND READ IT. OKAY. THE FIRST QUESTION SAYS, "WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY WHEN MAKING DECISIONS?" OKAY. SO WHO WANTS TO ANSWER THIS FIRST ONE? IT'S ON YOUR SCREEN. [03:20:02] I'LL SEE IF I CAN ANSWER. NO, NO. YOU HAVE FOUR CHOICES. UM, WELL, I CAN'T SEE THAT. PROCEED. WELL, THE CHOICES ARE THE BOARD CAN WRITE NEW ZONING RULES, THE BOARD WORKS LIKE A COURT, UH, OR THE BOARD GIVES ADVICE TO CITY COUNCIL OR THE BOARD VOTES BASED ON WHAT MOST NEIGHBORS WANT. I, I DIDN'T HEAR THE ANSWER. WHAT'S THAT? B, WHICH IS WHAT? IT, IT WORKS LIKE A COURT. CORRECT. ALL RIGHT. NEXT ONE. AND WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO OVER TIME IS WE'LL CHANGE THE QUIZZING. SO AFTER EVERYONE DOES THE FIRST ROUND OF IT, THEN THE STAFF WILL GO IN AND CREATE NEW ROUNDS OF QUIZZES. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT EVERY QUARTER, BUT PERIODICALLY. THAT'S THE IDEA. OKAY. NEXT ONE. AND I WILL POINT OUT, ONCE, W- W- WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE TRAINING, IF YOU GET THE QUESTION INCORRECT, IT DOES GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO TRY IT AGAIN TO GET THE CORRECT ANSWER. THAT'S WHY REMARKABLY MR. MR. UH, GRAHAM, MR. SLADE AND I PASSED 100%. WE'RE NOT GONNA TELL YOU HOW MANY WE MISSED, BUT WE DID ALL THREE PASS 100%. OKAY, PROCEED. ALL RIGHT. SO IT GOES INTO WHERE DOES THE BOARD GETS ITS POWER, AUTHORITY AND ACTION, HOW'S THE BOARD ORGANIZED? SO IT GIVES A BREAKDOWN ON HOW THE BOARD IS ORGANIZED, THE CRITERIA, THE SEL- SELECTION CRITERIA, UM, THE TWO-YEAR CYCLE AND THE OPERATIONAL STRUCTURE. ALSO UNDERSTANDING PANEL MEETING SCHEDULES, UH, WHAT GOES ON INSIDE THE BRIEFING ROOM AND WHAT, UM, WHO DOES WHAT ON THE BOARD. SO THESE ITEMS HERE, THESE ARE CARDS THAT IT'LL ALLOW YOU TO CLICK ON AND IT'LL SHOW YOU THE ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY OF EACH OFFICER OF THE BOARD, AS WELL AS IT'LL GIVE YOU A BREAKDOWN OF WHAT, UM, THE STAFF DOES AS WELL. MR. SLADE HAS A QUESTION. WILL SOME VERSION OF THIS BE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AS MEMBERS ARE TRYING TO BE RECRUITED SO THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE GETTING THEMSELVES INVOLVED IN? THAT, I'M NOT SURE. I CAN, I CAN FOLLOW. MEANING THAT IT WOULD BE ON THE WEBSITE? YEAH. OR I GUESS IT... YEAH. OKAY, THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. OKAY. OKAY. SO NOW WE'RE DOWN TO THE SECOND QUESTION. AND IT SAYS, "YOU HAVE MISSED FOUR REGULAR MEETINGS OF YOUR PANEL IN A ROW. NOTHING WAS CERTIFIED BY A PHYSICIAN NOR THE BOARD OF THE CITY COUNCIL. EXCUSE THE ABSENCES. WHAT DOES THE ATTENDANCE RULE SAY ABOUT FOUR SUCCESSIVE ABSENCES?" I GOT, I, YOU GOT, I GOTTA S - RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU WANNA ANSWER. MR. HOPKOVITZ, WHICH ANSWER? YOU FORFEIT YOUR SEAT ON THE BOARD. THAT IS CORRECT. OUR ATTENDANCE RULES ARE THE SAME ATTENDANCE RULES AS ALL THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. VERY SIMPLY, YOU CAN'T BE ABSENT MORE THAN THREE TIMES IN A ROW OR MORE THAN 25% IN A ROLLING TWE - 12-MONTH AVERAGE. OKAY? OKAY, NEXT ONE. SO NOW WE'LL GO INTO LESSON TWO, PROCEDURAL AND ETHICAL RULES. WHY PROCEDURAL INTEGRITY MATTERS, THE PURPOSE OF THE PROCEDURAL RULES, KEY RULES FOR FAIR HEARINGS. UM, IT TALKS ABOUT EX PARTE COMMUNICATION AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. AND AGAIN, THESE CARDS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ABLE TO FLIP THEM OVER. UM, WHAT TO DO WHEN IT HAPPENS, AND WE'RE DOWN TO THE NEXT QUIZ. OKAY. QUESTION. ALL RIGHT. SOON AS IT FLIPS ON MY PAGE. OKAY. A NEIGHBOR CALLS YOU AT HOME ABOUT A CASE ON YOUR BOARD AGENDA AND WANTS TO SHARE INFORMATION. WHAT SHOULD YOU DO? CAMP YOU, MS. LAMB, YOU'VE ALREADY ANSWERED. MR. QUINT, WHAT'S THE ANSWER? IMMEDIATELY SAY, NO, YOU CANNOT TALK ABOUT THIS. AND THEN AT THE BOARD MEETING, MENTIONED THAT THE COM- COMMUNICATION TOOK PLACE AND THAT YOU SAID WE, WE CAN, DID NOT TALK ABOUT IT. CLICK IT. LET'S SEE IF HE'S CORRECT. HE IS - AND HE IS CORRECT. YOU ARE CORRECT. OKAY. SO THEN WE TALK, IT TALKS ABOUT, UM, WHY NO INDEPENDENT RESEARCH, O - WHAT'S OKAY AND WHAT'S NOT OKAY, WHAT COUNTS AS RESEARCH, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, WHEN TO RECUSE YOURSELF, UM, TWO-YEAR LIMIT- LIMIT ON REFILE AND DENY CASES. STAYING COMPLIANT. AND ANOTHER QUESTION. ANOTHER QUESTION. AND THE NEXT QUESTION IS, AS SOON AS MY PAGE FLIPS, BECAUSE I CAN'T READ, THAT'S GOOD. CAN YOU READ IT, MS. GWEN? OH, HERE IT IS. WHAT IS THE CORRECT ORDER OF ACTIONS WHEN YOU SPOT A POSSIBLE CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN A CASE ON YOUR AGENDA? FIRST, STOP PARTICIPATING IN THE CASE. SECOND, DISCLOSE THE CONFLICT. THIRD, FILE A WRITTEN WITH A CITY, WRITTEN STATEMENT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY. OR, OR TWO, DISCLOSE THE CONFLICT TO YOUR PANEL ON THE RECORD, FILE A WRITTEN STATEMENT, THEN ST - THEN STOP PARTICIPATING, OR FIRST FILE A WRITTEN STATEMENT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY, THEN STOP PARTICIPATING, THEN DISCLOSE. WHO, WHO WANTS TO ANSWER THAT? SOMEONE WHO HASN'T ANSWERED. I THINK IT'S MR. DORN. [03:25:01] WHAT... I NEED YOU TO SEE HERE ON THE RECORD. A. READ IT, PLEASE. FIRST STOP PARTICIPATING. ON, ON THE MICROPHONE. FIRST, STOP PARTICIPATING IN THE CASE. SECOND, DISCLOSE THE CONFLICT TO YOUR PANEL. ON THE RECORD. THIRD, FILE A WRITTEN STATEMENT WITH THE CITY SECRETARY. CORRECT, AMUNDO. THE HOPE IS YOU HAVE SPOT THE, THE CONFLICT BEFORE THE, THE CASE, AND YOU'VE COMMUNICATED THAT SO THAT WAY WE CAN GET AN ALTERNATE MEMBER OR HANDLE IT SO IT'S NOT ALL OF A SUDDEN. NEXT ONE. UM, LESSON THREE, HOW BOARD MEETINGS WORK. WHY BOARD MEETING PROCEDURES MATTER? OVERVIEW OF THE BOARD APPLICATION PROCESS. TIP - SIMILAR TO WHAT MS. BARKIM JUST WENT OVER. INSIDE THE BRIEFING, WHAT HAPPENS DURING THE BRIEFING? WHAT HAPPENS DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING? WHO SPEAKS AND WHEN? AND AGAIN, THESE CARDS ARE, UM, ITEMS THAT YOU GUYS CAN CLICK ON AND IT'LL TELL YOU... IT'LL GIVE YOU THE ANSWER. HOW MOTIONS WORK, UM, IT'LL GO OVER ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. MOTIONS AND VOTING RULES. AND WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS? AND THE QUESTION IS, AT THE 1:00 PM HEARING, THE SPEAKER... I... OKAY. THE SPEAK... THE APPLICANT HAS JUST FINISHED PRESENTING THE REQUEST AND SUPPORTERS AND OPPONENTS HAVE SPOKEN. WHAT HAPPENS AFTER, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? DOES THE PA- PANEL VOTE RIGHT AWAY? DO PANEL MEMBERS ASK CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, THEN A MOTION, THEN SECOND AND DELIBERATED? DOES THE CASE MOVE TO THE MORNING BRIEFING FOR STAFF REVIEW, OR DOES THE PARTY PRESIDING OFFER TO DECIDE THE CASE ALONE ANNOUNCE THE, ANNOUNCE THE OUTCOME? WELL, YOU'VE ALREADY ANSWERED. YOU CAN'T, YOU DON'T... YES, YOU CAN ASK A QUESTION. UM, SHOULDN'T THE APPLICANT THEN GET A CHANCE TO REBUTTAL? THAT ASSUMES THAT THEY'VE DONE THEIR REBUTTAL. OH, OKAY. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. MR. ROGERS. B, PA- PANEL MEMBERS ASK CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, THEN A MOTION IS MADE. THAT IS... CORRECT. CORRECT. CORRECT. OKAY. SO WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE VOTE? KEY STEPS AFTER, UM, A BOARD DECISION, AND IT BREAKS DOWN WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT. SPECIAL SITUATIONS AND BOARD MEETINGS, AND WE'RE AT ANOTHER QUESTION. OKAY. THE NEXT QUESTION. ALL FIVE MEMBERS OF YOUR PANEL ARE PRESENT. ON A MOTION TO GRANT A VARIANCE, THE VOTE IS THREE YES, TWO NO. WHAT IS THE OUTCOME? WHO HAS NOT ANSWERED YET? I THINK I'M GONNA LOOK TO MR. FINNEY. IT'S RIGHT THERE. IT'S... ALL FIVE MEMBERS OF YOUR PANELS ARE PRESENT. ON A MOTION TO GRANT A VARIANCE, THE VOTE IS THREE, YES, TWO NO. WHAT IS THE OUTCOME? NO CHEATING DOWN THERE. IT FAILS TO PASS. UH, WE, EXPLAIN. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT FAILS? UH, IT HAS TO HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU. IT HAS TO HAVE A, HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY. WHICH IS HOW MANY VOTES? FOUR OUT OF FIVE. CORRECT. AND SO, UH, SO DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT? IT FAILS. SO IF THE MOTION IS LEFT LIKE THAT, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT FAILS? WITH PREJUDICE. SO TYPICALLY, WHAT YOU'LL HAVE IS YOUR PRESIDING OFFICER WILL ASK FOR A MOTION TO HAVE IT DENIED WITH, WITHOUT PREJUDICE SO THE PERSON CAN REAPPLY. BUT IF A FAILURE TO APPROVE FAILS THREE TO TWO BY OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, IT FAILS WITH PREJUDICE, WHICH IS TWO YEARS EXCEPTIONS. MR. HAPKOVITZ. SO IT'S OFTEN THE CASE, MY OBSERVATION, IT'S ALMOST ALWAYS THE CASE THAT WE DO THAT SECOND STEP, WHICH IS HAVE A VOTE TO CHANGE IT TO WITHOUT PREJUDICE. SO MY QUESTION IS, WHY IS THE RULE DEFAULT TO WITH PREJUDICE? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. UH, WE ASKED THAT OF OUR ATTORNEYS YEARS AGO. UM, TERESA, DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? I DON'T MEAN TO GO TO THERESA. CAITLIN, DO YOU, DO YOU REMEMBER THE BASIS OF THAT? WHY THAT... IT... WE ADDRESSED THAT A COUPLE YEARS AGO. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A ROBERTS RULES OF ORDER, UH, DEFAULT, UM, OR WHAT. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. BUT IT'S IN OUR RULES THAT, THAT, THAT SAYS THAT. SO TYPICALLY, THE PRACTICE IS TO MAKE A MOTION TO DENY WITHOUT PREJUDICE. DOES THE, DO THE ATTORNEYS HAVE AN ANSWER ON THAT OR SHE'S, SHE'S WINCING, WHICH I DON'T... I MEAN, SHE... DO YOU GUYS KNOW BY CHANCE? I BELIEVE IT'S A ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER, AND THAT'S JUST STATUS QUO. SO IF A MOTION DOESN'T PASS, THEN IT'S STATUS QUO, AND THAT MEANS THAT N - YOU'RE NOT TAKING ANY ACTION ON THE MATTER, SO IT WOULD JUST BE DENIED AND - BUT THE QUESTION GOES TO THE PREJUDICE. RIGHT. SO I THINK IT'S... IS IT IMPLYING THE BODY HEARD THE CASE AND SO THEREFORE CAN'T HEAR IT FOR TWO... THAT'S WHEN IT HAPPENS. WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT ROBERT'S [03:30:01] RULES OF ORDER TO GIVE YOU A MORE COLORFUL ANSWER. OKAY. AN ANSWER TO BE GIVEN LATER TODAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY, KEEP GOING, KAMIKA. ALL RIGHT. UM, YOUR DECISION MATTERS, AND SO NOW WE'LL GO INTO LESSON FOUR, CONDUCT IN THE ROOM. WHY PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT SETS THE TONE. SO THIS, BASICALLY, IT TALKS ABOUT THE, UM, ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER, HOW TO BE RECOGNIZED AND HOW TO ADDRESS PEOPLE IN THE ROOM, AND RECOGNIZE WHAT TYPES OF QUESTIONS ARE APPROPRIATE OR INAPPROPRIATE. UM, PROF - UM, DECORUM AND PROFESSIONALISM, SETTING THE STANDARD, AGAIN, ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. AND YOU CAN CLICK ON EACH ONE OF THESE ITEMS AND IT'LL GIVE YOU A BREAKDOWN, HOW TO BE RECOGNIZED, ASKING GOOD QUESTIONS, CLARIFYING QUESTIONS AND QUESTIONS THAT YOU SHOULD AVOID. AND, UM, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, IT'LL, YOU KNOW, WITH THIS TASK HERE, YOU, YOU'LL JUST PLACE IT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S APPROPRIATE OR INAPPROPRIATE. COMMON PITFALLS, SPOT THE MISTAKE, HOW TO DRESS FOR BOARD HEARINGS. THE DRESS CODE IS BUSINESS CASUAL. UM, AND REMEMBER EVERYTHING IS ON THE RECORD AND WE'RE DOWN TO ANOTHER QUESTION. OKAY. AS SOON AS IT COMES TO MY SCREEN, NEXT QUESTION IS, "DURING DELIBERATIONS, YOU WANT TO ADD A POINT ABOUT THE MOTION BEING DISCUSSED. WHEN MAY YOU SPEAK?" WHO GETS TO ANSWER THAT ONE? I THINK IT'S MS. PEREZ. MM-HMM. DURING DELIBERATION, YOU WANT TO ADD A POINT ABOUT THE MOTION BEING DISCUSSED. WHEN MAY YOU SPEAK? WHEN RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIR. OKAY. AGREE. LET'S SEE, IS IT CORRECT? MM-HMM. IT IS, BUT... AND THAT AGAIN IS A ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER PROCESS. UH, HERE'S A VERY INTERESTING ONE WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, AND THIS HAPPENS SEEMS TO BE ALL THE TIME. SO IT GOES BACK TO MS. LAMB'S COMMENT, DID THE APPLICANT GET A REBUTTAL? SO WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING, THE APPLICANT PRESENTS, THE A - THE BOARD ASKS QUESTIONS, THERE'S OPPOSITION OR NOT. THEN THE PRESIDING OFFICER ASKS FOR A MOTION. AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THE PUBLIC PHASE OF THE HEARING IS OVER. AND REALISTICALLY, THE CONVERSATION WITH THE APPLICANT AND/OR OPPOSITION SHOULD CEASE. THERE ARE TIMES THAT IT BLEEDS OVER, BUT IT REALLY SHOULD CEASE. SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE ALL THE QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT AND THE OPPOSITION IS D - AND THE STAFF, QUITE HONESTLY, IS DONE BY THE TIME SOMEONE MAKES A MOTION. BECAUSE ONCE SOMEONE MAKES A MOTION AND IT'S SECONDED, ALL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS YES OR NO, APPROVAL OR DENIAL, NOT ABOUT OTHER COMPONENTS. OKAY? AND WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION? ANOTHER QUESTION. DURING DELIBERA - D- DURING DELIBERATION, ANOTHER MEMBER SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE CASE YOU STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH. WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO RAISE YOUR CONCERN? DR. GLOVER. LET ME SEE. WAIT TO BE RECOGNIZED BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER THEN RESPECTFULLY EXPLAIN YOUR DISAGREEMENT ON THE RECORD. AND THE ANSWER IS? CORRECT. CORRECT. THANK YOU. NEXT ONE. ALL RIGHT. UM, LESSON FIVE, ZONING IN PLAIN LANGUAGE. SO HERE WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHY ZONING CONCEPTS MATTER FOR BOARD DECI - UM, BOARD DECISIONS, AND IT'LL GO THROUGH DIFFERENT, UM, TYPES OF, UM, DISTINGUISHING PLANNING FROM ZONING, DEFINING KEY ZONING TERMS, AND LEARNING TO READ AND INTERPRET SITE PLANS AND RECOGNIZE ISSUES THAT ARE NOT ZONING MATTERS. SO AGAIN, UNDERSTANDING PLANNING VERSUS ZONING, AND IT'LL GIVE YOU A BREAKDOWN OF EACH ITEM. UM, WHAT DO ZONING DISTRICTS CONTROL? KEY ZONING TERMS, KEY ZONING TERMS EXPLAIN. USE REGULATION VERSUS DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. IT'LL ALSO GO INTO PARKING AND LOADING. READING A SITE PLAN, AND IT'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF A SITE PLAN HERE. AND SO - AND RIGHT THERE. HERE IT SAYS MATCH EACH ARCHITECTURAL OR ZONING TERM WITH ITS CORRECT DEFINITION. ALL RIGHT. WHO WANTS TO - WHO WANTS TO TACKLE THIS? SO FRONT SETBACK. WHAT IS THE FRONT SETBACK PIECE? WHAT, WHICH ONE DOES IT GO WITH? THAT WOULD BE... OH, THIS IS CANDY, MAY I - OH, CANDY, PLEASE. THANK YOU. I BELIEVE IT'S THE REQUIRED DISTANCE BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE. ALL RIGHT. SO SHE'S GONNA GRAB IT. SEE IF IT IS. WELL, I HAVE TO DO ALL OF THEM. OKAY, THAT'S THE FIRST ONE. NEXT ONE, BUILDING FOOTPRINT. THE AREA OF THE LOT ACTUALLY COVERED BY THE BUILDING. OKAY. BUT YOU'LL GRAB THAT. AND THEN BY DEFAULT, THE LAST ONE, HOPEFULLY. WE'LL FIND OUT IF YOU'RE CORRECT, MS. EVANS. YES. CORRECT. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. NEXT ONE. WHAT DOES, WHAT'S, WHAT ZONING DOES NOT COVER COMMON, COMMON NON-ZONING [03:35:01] ISSUES YOU MIGHT ENCOUNTER? AND WE HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. THE NEXT QUESTION IS, AS SOON AS IT FLIPS THE PAGE, HERE IT IS. A NEIGHBOR BRINGS UP DRAINAGE CONCERNS DURING A BOARD HEARING. WHAT SHOULD YOU DO? MR. SASHINGTON, YOU'RE LOOKING AT ME LIKE YOU KNOW THE ANSWER. YOU CAN PICK ONE OF THE FOUR. YOU, YOU CAN'T SEE IT. I LOVE IT. THIS IS WHAT I TOLD MRS. MS. LIU, IS THAT SOMETIMES WE CAN'T SEE ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE PROVIDED. IT'S BEGIN DISCUSSING POSSIBLE DRAINAGE SOLUTIONS, ASK THE STAFF TO ADDRESS THE DRAINAGE ISSUE, EXPLAIN THE DRAINAGE IS NOT A ZONING ISSUE OR IGNORE THE COMMENT. OKAY, LET'S DO THAT AND SEE IF HE'S CORRECT ON THAT. CORRECT. AND HE'S CORRECT. GOOD GUESS. ALL RIGHT. STAYING FOCUSED IN YOUR ROLE IN THE HEARING AND WE'LL MOVE INTO LESSON SIX, NAVIGATING THE DEVELOPMENT CODE AND STAFF REPORTS. WHAT IS A STAFF REPORT AND WHY DOES IT MATTER? THE ANATOMY OF A STAFF REPORT, KEY SECTIONS TO REVIEWING EVERY STAFF REPORT, INTRODUCTION TO BEST PRACTICE PREPARATION ROUTINE, AND WE HAVE A QUESTION. ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT QUESTION IS, YOU ARE PREPARING FOR A HEARING AND WANT TO KNOW WHAT MUST BE TRUE FOR THE BOARD TO GRANT THE REQUEST. WHICH PART OF THE STAFF REPORT TELLS YOU THIS? MR. CAMPBELL. I CAN'T QUITE SEE THE OPTIONS, BUT - I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A CHOICE. THE LETTERS TO SUPPORT OUR OPPOSITION, THE RELEVANT STANDARD SECTION, WHICH CITES THE CODE SECTION AND THE CRITERIA, THE LOCATION MAPS OR THE CASE HEADER. LOOKS LIKE IT'S B. WHICH IS THE RELEVANT STANDARD. THAT'S RIGHT. I'M GUESSING YES. WE'LL SEE. THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. LESSON SEVEN TALKS ABOUT SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. WE'RE ALMOST DONE, GUYS. WHY UNDERSTANDING ZONING CASE TYPES MATTER, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS WHEN THE CODE ALLOWS FLEXIBILITY, COMMON SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS THAT THE BOARD CAN GRANT. AND YOU'LL CLICK THROUGH HERE AND IT'LL SHOW YOU THE DIFFERENT, THE COMMON TYPES THAT WE SEE. KEY CRITERIA FOR, UM, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. AND SO IT'S GONNA GIVE US A PRACTICE SCENARIO. AND HERE I'M JUST GONNA FLIP THROUGH THIS REALLY QUICKLY. UM, YOU GUYS WILL GO THROUGH THIS DURING THE ACTUAL TRAINING. AND IT'S EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS - AND IT'S A LIVE CASE THAT WE'VE ALREADY SETTLED - UH-HUH. SO THAT IT SHOWS THE COMPONENTS. ALL RIGHT. AND SO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS - AND THE QUESTION IS - AND THE QUESTION IS, WHICH OF THESE IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION THE BOARD CAN GRANT? CHANGE - MR. GRAHAM, YOU SQUINT YOUR EYES. I CAN ONLY READ A, WHICH IS CHANGING THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY THAT WE CAN'T DO. OKAY. ALLOWING A TALLER FENCE THAN STANDARD PERMITS. B, I'M OKAY WITH B. GRANT RELIEF FOR HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THE LOT SHAPE OR OV- OVERTURNING THE BUILDING OF, UH, PERMIT DENIAL. WELL, I MEAN, B, WE CAN ALLOW A FENCE HIGHER THAN THE CODE PERMITS. THAT IS CORRECT, BECAUSE IT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. IT'S NOT A VARIANCE. ALL RIGHT. AND WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. OKAY. NEXT QUESTION. THIS IS FOR MR. SLADE. WHICH QUESTION SHOULD GUIDE YOUR DECISION WHEN NEIGHBORS OBJECT TO A TALLER FENCE BECAUSE IT WOULD BLOCK SIGHT LINES FROM THE DRIVEWAY? IF I COULD READ IT, I MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE. I'LL READ IT. HAS THE APPLICANT SHOWN A HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THE LOT'S UNIQUE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE? THIS IS ABOUT A TALLER FENCE BECAUSE IT BLOCKS SIGHT LINES. IN THE BOARD'S OPINION, WILL THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY? OR DOES THE NEIGHBOR SUPPORT, DO THE NEIGHBORS SUPPORT THE REQUEST OR WOULD GRANTING THE REQUEST RAISE OR LOWER NEARBY PROPERTY VALUES? THIS IS A LITTLE BIT HARDER. YEAH, THIS IS HARDER. UM... WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIGHT LINES FOR - YEAH, YES. THE APPLICANT WANTS TO PUT A FENCE THAT BLOCKS THE SIGHT LINE OF THEIR NEIGHBOR. OF THEIR NEIGHBOR. MM-HMM. OKAY. UM - YEAH. YEAH. I THINK THAT'S B THEN. IT'S B ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. LET'S SEE. YEAH. AND THAT'S CORRECT. VERY CORRECT. GOOD GUESS. THIS IS AN EYE TEST AS WELL. ALL RIGHT. LESSON EIGHT WILL DISCUSS, UM, VARIANCES. IT'LL DISCUSS RELIEF FOR UNIQUE PROPERTY CONDITIONS AND THE COMMON TYPE OF VARIANCE REQUEST THAT WE SEE. WHAT MUST BE TRUE FOR THE BOARD TO, UM, GRANT A VARIANCE? AND [03:40:01] IT TALKS ABOUT THE THREE COMPONENTS HERE. ALSO, THE OTHER, UM, HARDSHIP FACTORS ARE, UM, NOTED HERE. QUESTION TO ASK IN A VARIANCE HEARING. AND WE HAVE ANOTHER CASE SCENARIO THAT YOU GUYS HAVE PROBABLY ALL SEEN, SO JUST GONNA CLICK THROUGH THIS. THIS WAS IN OAK CLIFF IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. OKAY. THE QUESTION IS, WHICH FINDING WOULD BEST SUPPORT GRANTING THE VARIANCE UNDER CRITERIA ONE? THE VARIANCE MUST NOT BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST. WHO WANTS TO TAKE THAT? MS. GARNER, CAN YOU SEE IT? OH, DID WE LOSE HER? I THINK WE LOST HER. MS. GARNER, DO YOU SEE IT? I'M HERE. I CAN BARELY SEE IT. I'M SORRY. OKAY. SO THE FINDING W- WHAT F - WHICH FINDING WOULD BEST SUPPORT GRANTING THE VARIANCE CRITERIA? THE VARIANCE MUST NOT BE CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST. IS IT BECAUSE ENFORCING THE SETBACK WOULD CAUSE UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP, REDUCE THE SETBACK, KEEPS THE SPIRIT IN THE ORDINANCE? IS THE APPLICANT HAS OWNED THE HOME FOR MANY YEARS AND HAS ALWAYS PAID PROPERTY TAXES ON TIME? IS IT THAT THE ADDITION WOULD RAISE THE HOME'S VALUE, WHICH IS GOOD FOR THE TAX BASE? OR IS IT SEVERAL OTHER HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WERE BUILT CLOSER TO THE STREET DECADES AGO? I THINK IT'S THE FIRST ONE. OOH. OKAY. LET'S SEE. UH, MAYBE. I CAN BEAR THIS. NO.THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. THERE YOU GO. OH, GOOD. THANKS. ANOTHER QUESTION. N - ANOTHER QUESTION FOR US. WE'RE ALMOST DONE, GUYS. I KNOW LUNCH IS WAITING. WHICH FACT, IF TRUE, WOULD SUPPORT GRANTING A VARIANCE UNDER THE CRITERIA THAT THE PROPERTY'S UNIQUE AND THE HARDSHIP IS NOT SELF-MADE OR POR - OR P- PURELY FINANCIAL? THIS LOOKS LIKE IT'S GONNA BE MR. HOPKOVITZ. I'M GONNA GO WITH THE FOURTH ONE. THE LOT'S UNUSUALLY SHADOWED, SHALLOW DEPTH. I THINK YOU'RE, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. UNLIKE OTHER LOTS - WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT. NO ROOM TO BUILD BEHIND. IT IS CORRECT. YEAH. YEP. GOT IT. MM-HMM. ALL RIGHT. LESSON NINE TALKS ABOUT APPEALS OF ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS. UNDERSTANDING APPEALS OF ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS. THE CENTRAL QUESTION, WHAT CAN THE BOARD DO IN AN APPEAL? QUESTIONS TO ASK IN, IN, IN AN APPEAL. PRACTICE SCENARIO. AND I'M JUST GONNA BREEZE THROUGH THIS ONE. AND WE HAVE A QUESTION. ALL RIGHT. AND THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE BOARD'S CENTRAL QUESTION WHEN THE APPLICANT APPEALS ARGUING THE BUILDING OFFICIAL MISREAD THE CODE WHEN DENYING THIS PER - THEIR PERMIT? MS. PEREZ? DO YOU REALLY WANT ME TO ANSWER THAT? OF COURSE I DO. I CAN'T, I CAN'T READ IT. ALL RIGHT. MR. QUINT, I'LL READ IT OUT LOUD IF YOU, IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT. ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS THE BOARD'S CENTRAL QUESTION WHEN, WHEN AN APPLICANT APPEALS ARGUING THE BUILDING OFFICIAL MISREAD THE CODE? WOULD GRANTING THE PERMIT BE GOOD FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD? DID THE ADMIN OFFICIAL, ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL APPLY THE CODE CORRECTLY? DOES THE APPLICANT HAVE A HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THE LOT, SHAPE, SIZE OR SLOPE? OR DID THE APPLICANT FOLLOW THE RIGHT STEPS IN FILING THE APPEAL? I THINK B. TWO. I'D GO WITH B. CORRECT. DID THE APP - ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL APPLY THIS CITY CODE CORRECTLY? CORRECT. ERROR. ERROR. I'M SORRY. ERROR. ALL RIGHT, NEXT QUESTION. IN AN APPEAL OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION, WHICH SET OF ACTIONS CAN THE BOARD TAKE? AFFIRM THE DECISION, REVERSE IT WHOLLY OR PARTLY, MODIFY AND IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS, ONLY A- AFFIRM OR REVERSE, REWRITE THE CODE SECTION, OR SEND THE DECISION TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR A FINAL RULING? MR. DORN? I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE AWAKE OVER THERE. TURN YOUR MIC ON, PLEASE. A. WHICH IS? I CAN'T HEAR YOU. YOU'RE OFF AGAIN. OH. AFFIRM THE DECISION, REVERSE IT WHOLLY OR PARTLY OR MODIFY IT AND IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS. AND THE ANSWER IS? CORRECT. CORRECT. THAT IS IT. IS THAT IT? MM-HMM. THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, SO THE STAFF IS GONNA DEBUT THIS IN JANUARY AND IT'LL BE CLEANED UP AND IT'LL BE SENT TO EACH PERSON. UM, AND [03:45:02] THIS IS NOT A TEST, BUT A RECORD WILL BE KEPT THAT YOU TOOK THE TEST, PRESUMABLY YOU PASSED IT, AND IT'S ALL PART OF OUR ONGOING TRAINING. THE QUESTION WILL BE HOW OFTEN WE DO THIS AND THE STAFF UPDATES IT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL BE TWICE A YEAR OR QUARTERLY, PROBABLY NOT QUARTERLY, BUT AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR WITH NEW QUESTIONS AND NEW SCENARIOS. AGAIN, THE IDEA IS TO KEEP YOU FRESH AND IT'S A SELF-TEST. AND AGAIN, LIKE, LIKE... WHAT'S THAT? IT, IT'S A TEST FOR YOURSELF. OH, STOP IT. IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S TO CERTIFY TO THE CODE THAT WE'RE DOING TRAINING AND ALSO PROVIDING OURSELVES SELF-HELP. AND THE STAFF WILL KEEP THIS UPDATED SO THAT WAY YOU DON'T TAKE THE SAME TEST QUIZ TWICE. ALL RIGHT. IT [VIII. Lunch, Board Member Response & Feedback] IS 12:52 PM ON THE 3RD OF NOVEMBER. WE'RE GONNA RECESS FOR LUNCH. WE WILL COME BACK TOGETHER AT 1:30 PM. AND WHEN WE COME BACK, UM, FROM LUNCH AT 1:30 PM, WE'RE GONNA DO PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTION BY MS. SARAH MAY, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE DALLAS ZONING REFORM BY ANDREA UDERA, WHO'S THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR. AND THEN WE'RE GONNA GO INTO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S, UM, UH, BRIEF, BOARD ATTORNEY'S, UH, BRIEFING AND THEN ACTION ITEMS. SO IT IS 12:52 PM. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS, UH, RECESSED UNTIL 1:30 PM. LUNCH IS SERVED BEHIND US. THANK YOU. OH, AND TURN OFF YOUR, YOUR SCREENS AND YOUR VIDEOS. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD AND TURN YOUR VIDEOS ON, GUYS. [VII. Board Training (Part 2 of 2)] OKAY. IT IS 1:30 PM ON THE 3RD OF NOVEMBER, TUESDAY, AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT COMES BACK INTO SESSION. UM, WHAT WE HAVE REMAINING ON OUR AGENDA TODAY IS, UM, PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES, AND THEN DALLAS ZONING REFORM AS PART OF THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT TRAINING. THEN WE'LL SWITCH TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND OUR TRAINING AND THEN OUR, UM, TRANSACTIONS, ACTION ITEMS. SO, MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, WHO DO WE HAVE NEXT? UM, WE HAVE MS. SARAH MAY, WHO WILL GO OVER PARKING REDUCTIONS. THANK YOU, MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR. MS. SARAH MAY, GOOD AFTERNOON. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON. LET ME PUT THIS IN PRESENTATION MODE, HOPEFULLY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, I'M GONNA GO OVER SOME PARKING REDUCTIONS THAT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WILL CONSIDER. UM, AN OVERVIEW IS THAT WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN DALLAS BECAUSE THAT'S APPLICABLE TO THE REDUCTIONS THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO GET. UM, WE'LL GO OVER THE LEGAL STANDARDS, UH, AS PART OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, UM, AND THEN WE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT SOME NOTABLE PLACES THAT ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE EXCEPTIONS. UM, SO JUST, UH, ABOUT THE BRIEF HISTORY, SINCE Y'ALL ARE, UH, CONSIDERING WHAT'S APPROPRIATE TO REDUCE, I JUST WANTED TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE GOT OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND JUST THEIR LONG HISTORY. UM, SO TO START OFF, THIS ZONING MAP ON THE RIGHT IS FROM 1941. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, DALLAS IS PRETTY SMALL. UM, THESE ARE VERY KIND OF COMPACT NEIGHBORHOODS IN DALLAS. UM, SO IN 1929, UH, ZONING WAS FIRST ADOPTED IN THE CITY, AND THEN IN 1947 IS WHEN WE GOT OUR FIRST MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS. UM, 1965, A LOT OF THOSE PARKING REQUIREMENTS WENT UP SIGNIFICANTLY, AND, UM, THEY SPECIFIED THAT PARKING HAD TO BE PROVIDED OFF-STREET. SO IN A LOT OF, A LOT OF OUR OLDER AREAS, AS YOU SAW IN THAT 1941 MAP, A LOT OF THOSE HISTORIC AREAS OF DALLAS, UM, WE HAVE SOME WAREHOUSES, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE DESIGN DISTRICT WHERE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE BUILT IN 1960, OR BEFORE 1965, THEY MIGHT ONLY HAVE ON-STREET PARKING, AND YOU MIGHT BE LIKE, "WELL, THIS IS 19 - AFTER 1947, BEFORE 1965, UM, THE CITY WAS ALLOWING THOSE ON-STREET SPACES TO COUNT TOWARDS THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENT BACK THEN." SO, UM, THAT JUST KINDA GIVES A- A LOT OF AHA MOMENT FOR SOME PEOPLE. UM, AND THEN IN 1987, UH, CITY OF DALLAS FULLY TRANSITIONED TO OUR CURRENT CODE, WHICH IS CHAPTER 51A, AND, UM, THAT'S ALSO WHERE THE CODE INTRODUCED PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS THAT, UM, THAT Y'ALL ARE, UM, ALLOWED TO GRANT. UM, THE TABLE ON THE RIGHT JUST SORT OF GOES OVER THREE VERY POPULAR USES, RESTAURANTS, RETAIL, AND OFFICE, [03:50:01] AND YOU COULD SEE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS STARTING TO CLIMB. UH, 1947, 1965, IT GOES EVEN HIGHER. AND SO, 1985, WHEN WE INTRODUCED THE PARKING SPEC- SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, UM, THAT'S A LOT OF WHERE, UM, OUR PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS COME FROM, BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF PARKING REQUIRED. UM, SO 1987, 1925, STAFF WAS DOING A LOT OF PARKING CALCULATIONS, DELTA CREDIT CALCULATIONS, UM, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS GOING THROUGH. UH, MAY 14TH, 2025, UH, PARKING REFORM WAS ADOPTED BY COUNCIL AND ELIMINATED A LOT OF PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR MOST OF THE USES. SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. MM-HMM. SO, OF COURSE, WE RESPECT THE CITY COUNCIL IN THEIR WISDOM ON DETERMINING WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE IN BASE ZONING AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS, AND WHAT THEY DELEGATE TO US TO EITHER GRANT IN A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR VARIANCE. SO IN THE RETAIL AND THE OFFICE CATEGORY, IT'S NOW... SO IN BASE ZONING, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR PARKING FOR RETAIL OR OFFICE ZONING, CORRECT? CORRECT. SO HOW DOES A PROPERTY OWNER OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL THIS, A TENANT, PLAN FOR PARKING WHEN THERE'S NONE REQUIRED? THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME - IT'S, IT'S... STANDARD SOMEWHERE. UP TO THEM. WE... WHEN TALKING WITH A LOT OF BUSINESSES, WE FOUND THAT A LOT OF THEM, UM, LIKE WHEN THEY'RE GRANTED LOANS FROM BANKS, BANKS ALSO WANNA KNOW THAT THEIR INVESTMENT IS, UH, SECURE BECAUSE IF A BUSINESS FAILS, THAT MAKES THAT LOAN A LOT MORE RISKY. SO A LOT OF TIMES LENDERS HAVE THEIR OWN PARKING REQUIREMENTS. YOU'RE SAYING BANKS - YEAH. HAVE PARKING REQUIREMENTS? YEAH. THAT'S THE FIRST I'VE EVER HEARD OF THAT. WHERE THEY HAVE TO JUSTIFY THAT - WOW. OKAY. THIS IS A GOOD INVESTMENT, YOU'LL GET YOUR MONEY BACK. UM, A LOT OF, UH, CHAIN RETAILERS HAVE THEIR OWN STANDARDS OF WHAT THEY WANT THEIR BUSINESSES TO HAVE. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF A BUSINESS DOESN'T GET ENOUGH CUSTOMERS, THEY WON'T BE IN BUSINESS FOR VERY LONG. SO, UM, SO A BIG THEME, UH, IN THE PARKING REFORM WAS ALLOWING PROPERTY OWNERS TO DECIDE HOW MANY SPACES - OKAY, I GOT, I'VE GOT ANOTHER QUESTION. MS. PEREZ, PLEASE. MM-HMM. UH, HOW DOES THIS WORK FOR ADA SPACES? LIKE, IS IT... D- DO THEY STILL HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM, OR IS THERE A CERTAIN NUMBER THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE? YES. SO THAT'S A FEDERAL REQUIREMENT, AND IT'S BASED ON HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE PROVIDED, NOT REQUIRED. SO IF A BUSINESS PROVIDES ONE SPACE, IT MUST BE HANDICAPPED. AND THEY... I THINK IT'S ONE SPACE EVERY 25 OR 50 PARKING SPACES THAT ARE PROVIDED. IT'S A, IT'S A FEDERAL REQUIREMENT THAT THE STATE ADOPTED AND... SO BASICALLY, LIKE, LET'S SAY A BOX STORE, LIKE A, A LOWE'S OR HOME DEPOT. MM-HMM. YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAVE 100 SPACES, I- IF THEY ONLY PROVIDE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, 25 SPACES NOW - UH-HUH. THAT WOULD REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ADA SPACES. IT COULD, YES. ALL RIGHT. MM-HMM. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, SO FOR THE LEGAL STANDARDS OF REVIEW FOR DECISION-MAKING, UM, THE BOARD MAY GRANT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO AUTHORIZE... SORRY, THIS IS BLOCKING MY VIEW. UM, A REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF OFF-STREET PARKING SPACES REQUI- REQUIRED UNDER THIS ARTICLE. SO, YOU KNOW, THE RATIO. UM, IF THE BOARD FINDS AFTER A PUBLIC HEARING THAT THE PARKING DEMAND GENERATED BY THE USE DOES NOT WARRANT THE NUMBER OF OFF-STREET PARKING SPACES REQUIRED, AND THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON ADJACENT OR NEARBY STREETS. SO THESE, UH, YOU KNOW, AS, AS YOU'RE WELL AWARE, UM, Y'ALL ARE REVIEWING THE EVIDENCE THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDES. SO STAFF ENCOURAGES THE APPLICANTS TO ENGAGE WITH A TRAFFIC ENGINEER, SOMEONE WHO IS EQUIPPED WITH, YOU KNOW, TOOLS TO UNDERSTAND PARKING DEMAND GENERATING - GENERATION AND TRAFFIC HAZARDS AND TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON NEARBY STREETS. SO, SO LET'S DEAL WITH THE EASIER ONE OF THESE THAT BEFORE WE GET TO THE DELTA CREDIT, WHATEVER THAT IS. SO WE HEAR... WE GET THESE CASES REGULARLY, AND, UH, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION WOULD NOT CREATE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR INCREASED TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON ADJACENT OR NEARBY STREETS. WOW. SO THAT ALMOST IS A GUT CHECK TO US TO SAY, "OKAY, [03:55:01] DO WE THINK THAT THIS, THIS PROPERTY WITH THIS AMOUNT OF PROPOSED, UH, EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS IS GONNA HAVE X IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD - UH-HUH. THE SURROUNDING AREA?" THAT'S, THAT'S THE GUT CHECK PROCESS. MM-HMM. AND YOU'RE SAYING THE STAFF SUGGESTS TO THE APPLICANT THEY DO A PARKING STUDY. YES. I HAVE NEVER SEEN, IN MY FEW YEARS WITH THE CITY, A PARKING STUDY THAT DIDN'T EXACTLY REPLICATE THE ACTUAL SPACES ON THE GROUND. MM-HMM. SO HOW DO WE TAKE THESE PARKING STUDIES WITH ANY MERIT? IF THEY, IF THE PROPERTY HAS 20 SPACES AND MAGICALLY THE PARKING STUDY SAYS 20 SPACES, QUESTION, THEN I'VE GOT MS. LAMB. I MEAN - IT, IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING TO THIS ONE MEMBER - UH-HUH. BECAUSE I'M SAYING, GIVE ME SOMETHING OBJECTABLE, VERIFIABLE, SCIENTIFIC. SO, UM, I MEAN, THE TRAFFIC AND PARKING STUDIES THAT I'VE SEEN, WHICH MAY NOT BE THE ONES THAT YOU'VE SEEN, UM, ARE DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER. BUT THEY ALWAYS COME UP WITH THE SAME NUMBER. IF THERE'S 20 PACES, PLACES STRIPED, MAGICALLY, THEIR STUDY IS FOR 20 SPACES. I MEAN, MY HISTORY WITH ENGINEERS, WHICH I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, SO I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. I'M MARRIED TO ONE. UM, BUT ENGINEERS ARE HISTORICALLY VERY CONSERVATIVE PROFESSIONALS. THEY DON'T REALLY WANNA TAKE A WHOLE LOT OF RISKS, AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY... LET'S SAY IT'S A 20... THEY REQUIRE 100 PARKING SPACES FOR WHATEVER USE YOU'RE CONSIDERING, AND THEY HAVE 75 SPACES THERE. AND SO THEY'RE ASKING FOR A 15 SPACE... SORRY, 25 SPACE REDUCTION. I DON'T THINK I HAVE EVER MET AN ENGINEER THAT WOULD SAY, "YOU KNOW, THEY COULD REALLY GET AWAY WITH 50," YOU KNOW, AND THEY WOULDN'T BE ASKING IF THEY REALLY THOUGHT THEY NEEDED 80 SPACES. WE'VE HAD SOME 40, 45% REQUESTS. MM-HMM. MS. LAMB? I'M GONNA PIGGYBACK OFF THE CHAIR, OFF THE CHAIRMAN. I DO FIND THAT 100% OF THE TIME IN FRONT OF OUR BOARD, THE TRAFFIC STUDY ALWAYS FAVORS WHOEVER'S PAYING FOR THE TRAFFIC STUDY, SO, WHICH I THINK IS KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE S - WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IS THERE A MECHANISM IN WHICH WE, WE PASS THAT EXPENSE ONTO THE APPLICANT, BUT WE HAVE A THIRD PARTY OR THIRD PARTY VENDORS THAT ARE APPROVED BY THE CITY OF DALLAS IN WHICH WE PAY, LIKE, THEY ARE ORDERED TO DO THE TRAFFIC STUDY AS A THIRD PARTY THAT TO, TO THEN RELAY THAT INFORMATION TO THE BOARD, UM, AT THE COST OF THE APPLICANT, BUT NOT THE ONE HIRING. THEY, THEY'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO HIRE A SECONDARY OPINION, BUT I THINK WE NEED, LIKE, A... WE NEED AN, AN, AN OBJECTIVE OPINION ON THESE TRAFFIC S- STUDIES, BECAUSE I FIND THAT THEY ALWAYS FAVOR THE APPLICANT WHO IS PAYING FOR THESE STUDIES. RIGHT. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF MARY... IS DAVID ONLINE? I WAS. UM, BUT- BUT WE, WE... GO AHEAD ANSWER THE QUESTION, THEN I'VE GOT MR. SASHINGTON, THEN MR. FINNING. WE, WE DON'T HAVE A THIRD PARTY, BUT WE DO HAVE SOMEONE ON STAFF WHO IS A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER IN PARKING DEMAND GENERATION TRAFFIC STUDIES, DAVID NEVAREZ. YOU KNOW, HE'S LICENSED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER. HE'S ACTUALLY ON A LOT OF BOARDS THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, AND, LIKE, COMMITTEES THAT ADVISE ON THE TRAFFIC GENERATION MANUAL. UM, SO HE IS A REALLY GREAT RESOURCE, AND HE DOES REVIEW THOSE RE - ALL OF THESE REQUESTS AND WILL GIVE US HIS OPINION ON THE MATTER. UM, IT DOES TYPICALLY FALL IN LINE WITH WHAT THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS PROVIDED, BUT, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE THERE TO CONSIDER THESE TWO FACTORS, THESE TWO CRITERIA. SO, YOU KNOW, I, I TEND TO GO WITH WHAT THE, UH, PROFESSIONAL THAT'S LICENSED THAT HAS AN ETHICS REQUIREMENT AND, YOU KNOW, STUDIES... 'CAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY... IF IT'S A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER THAT'S PUTTING THEIR SEAL ON SOMETHING, THAT SH - I THINK SHOULD CARRY WEIGHT. UM, BUT YOU ARE, OF COURSE, WELCOME TO QUESTION AND ASK QUESTIONS AND BE, UM, WARY AND CAUTIOUS. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE ALL VERY GOOD THINGS. I'VE ALSO SEEN, UM, SOME NEIGHBORS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WHEN THEY'RE OPPOSED TO SOMETHING. THIS HAPPENS PROBABLY MORE OFTEN IN CPC, UM, ZONING CASES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY ALSO PROPOSE CHANGES TO PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SOMETIMES I'VE SEEN NEIGHBORHOODS HIRE THEIR OWN TRAFFIC ENGINEER TO... [04:00:01] TO, UM, WHAT IS IT? I DON'T KNOW. TO COUNTER. THERE YOU GO. I WAS LIKE, NOT CONFRONT, UH, THE OTHER C WORD TO COUNTER, UM, SOME OF THE PROVIDED STUDIES. AND DO THOSE LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THE INITIAL STUDY THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED OR ARE THEY PRETTY SIMILAR? I MEAN, THEY'RE, VISUALLY, THEY'RE, THEY LOOK DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT FORMAT. UM, IT'S CHANGED OVER TIME. LIKE, UH, SOMETIMES, A LOT OF THE TIMES THE OPPOSITION WILL SAY, "WELL, YOU WEREN'T LOOKING AT THE RIGHT EXAMPLE. I THINK THIS OTHER EXAMPLE IS A BETTER STUDY IN THIS CASE." AND THEN THEY GO BACK AND FORTH AND - OKAY. I'VE GOT MR. SASHINGTON AND THEN MR. FINNEY. I, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY REAL QUICK, UM, UH, I'VE SEEN QUITE A FEW OF THESE COME BEFORE, UM, PANEL C SINCE I'VE BEEN ON. AND, UM, MR. NEVAREZ HAS ALWAYS BEEN, UM, A VERY GOOD RESOURCE. UM, AND, AND HE DOESN'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH THE, PER SE, DOESN'T GIVE A, HE, HE GIVES AN OPINION, BUT NOT A, I GUESS, A FINDING, I GUESS. BUT, UM, UH, I'VE SEEN HIM BE ON BOTH SIDES OF, OF, OF THAT. UM, HE IS A REAL GOOD RESOURCE. A GOOD TRAFFIC STUDY WILL NOT JUST INCLUDE PARKING SPACES, IT WILL INCLUDE SOME OTHER, UM, UM, RELATABLE INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, TIME STUDIES, UM, USAGE STUDIES, UM, TRAF - UM, UH, I GUESS FLOW OF WHEN THAT PARTICULAR, WHAT THAT PARTICULAR APPLICANT SEES AS THEIR PEAK AND LOW TIMES OF, OF, OF THE, UM, OF THE DAY FOR THEIR BUSINESS. SO, UM, ALL OF THAT INFORMATION GOES INTO, UH, COMES INTO PLAY WHEN WE'RE MAKING A DECISION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GONNA GRANT OR, OR NOT. SO, UM, UH, I WOULD SAY LEAN HEAVILY ON, ON, UH, CITY STAFF, ASK QUESTIONS THAT WE, THAT, THAT WE NEED TO ASK, UM, TO, TO FURTHER UNDERSTAND WHAT, UH, WHAT'S BEING ASKED OF US AND THEN, UM, UH, MAKE A DECISION BASED ON THAT. MR. FINNEY? UM, YEAH. SO, UM, JUST ECHOING THE SENTIMENTS OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE. UM, I, YOU KNOW, IN MY FOUR YEARS, UH, BEING ON THIS BOARD, THE MOST CONTENTIOUS HEARINGS I'VE EVER BEEN A PART OF HAVE BEEN PARKING, UH, PARKING REQUIREMENT, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, RIGHTS, SPECIAL EXCEPTION. AND SO, AND, AND I, I ALSO AGREE WITH MR. SASHINGTON, MR. NEVAREZ HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE RESOURCE, BUT GIVEN THAT WE KNOW THAT EVERY PERSON ON THIS BOARD IS A PERSON, UH, WE KNOW THAT, UM, WE ALL BRING WITH US, UM, OUR OWN BIASES AND, UH, UH, PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT WHETHER PARKING IS GOOD OR BAD. UM, AND SO I THINK THAT, AND I, I SAID THIS AT LAST YEAR'S ANNUAL MEETING, AND I'VE SAID IT, I BROUGHT IT UP AT SEVERAL OF THE HEARINGS WHERE WE'VE HAD THESE CONTENTIOUS CASES COME UP, AND I'M GONNA SAY IT AGAIN. UH, I, I RESPECT MR. NEVAREZ'S OPINION 100%. UM, BUT I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL IF SOME OBJECTIVE CRITERIA WERE DEVELOPED, UM, THAT, THAT PAIRED, THAT WAS PAIRED WITH HIS OPINION, UM, THAT WAS, THAT MADE IT EASIER FOR US TO CHECK OUR EMOTIONS AND OUR PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT WHETHER PARKING IS EVIL OR GOOD. UM, BECAUSE, UH, I THINK WHAT'S BEEN LACKING AND WHAT HAS, WHAT HAS ALLOWED THESE CASES TO BECOME SO CONTENTIOUS AND SO DRAWN OUT, UM, SOMETIMES STAYING TILL 6:00 OR 7:00 PM AT NIGHT, UM, IS THAT THERE'S NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA PAIRED WITH OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER'S OPINION TO, TO HELP US BALANCE AGAINST THE QUOTE UNQUOTE OBJECTIVE CRITERIA OF THE THIRD PARTY, QUOTE UNQUOTE, THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT THAT THE APPLICANT HIRED TO MAKE THEIR CASE FOR THEM, RIGHT? AND SO - WELL, YOU STEP, YOU STEP RIGHT INTO ONE OF OUR OBJECTIVES FOR NEXT YEAR IS TO CHASE THAT EXACT THING. OKAY. OR OBJECTIVE CRITERIA AND FEEDBACK. YES. OKAY. AWESOME. NOW, THAT'S JUST OUR, WHAT WE'RE HOPING FOR AND ASKING THE STAFF TO TRY TO DO FURTHER ON. RIGHT. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. KEEP GOING. OKAY. SO, UM, THOSE ARE THE THINGS YOU'RE CONSIDERING. AND IF IT WILL IT ADVANCE. THERE WE GO. UM, AND THEN THE CODE GOES INTO THE MAXIMUM REDUCTION THAT'S AUTHORIZED. I PUT A LOT OF ELLIPSES IN THERE BECAUSE THE CODE GETS REALLY LENGTHY. UM, BUT [04:05:01] GENERALLY ALL THE USES ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE A 25% REDUCTION MINUS DELTA CREDITS. UM, COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT INSIDE AND INDUSTRIAL INSIDE USES ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE A 75% REDUCTION. SO WHAT ABOUT THE PARKING VARIANCES? ISN'T THERE A CATEGORY FOR PARKING VARIANCES AS WELL? IT'S JUST PART OF THE GENERAL VARIANCE. IT'S A GENERAL VARIANCE. BUT ISN'T, ISN'T PARKING EXCEPTIONS UP TO 50% AND VARIANCES CAN BE MORE OR NO? UM, SO IN 51A, GENERALLY FOR THE CITY, THESE ARE THE PERCENTAGES. OKAY. IN, UH, PD 621, THE DESIGN DISTRICT, THAT PD ALLOWS UP TO A 50% VARIANCE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SORRY. SPECIAL EXCEPTION. OKAY. SPECIAL EXCEPTION. UM, AND THEN FOR OFFICE USES ARE ALLOWED A 35% REDUCTION. UM, AND I CAN GO OVER THIS NEXT SLIDE LONG OR SHORT. YOU JUST GIVE ME A NOD OR A SHAKE OF THE HEAD. UM, BUT I DID HEAR SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT ARE DELTA CREDITS. THEY DID, THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION ON THAT. SO GENERALLY DEL - NOT GENERALLY, SPECIFICALLY DELTA CREDITS. THAT'S, THAT'S PRECISELY THE PROBLEM WITH DELTA CREDITS, IS THEY'RE GENERALLY. YEAH. NOT GENERALLY. THEY'RE VERY - BUT THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. VERY MATHEMATICAL. THERE'S THESE, THESE INFAMOUS CREDITS THAT ARE OUT THERE IN NANA LAND - UH-HUH. THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN APPEAR WHEN A CASE COMES UP. YEAH. AND YOU WONDER WHERE'D THAT COME FROM? WELL, WELL THEN MAYBE I SHOULD TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME ON THIS SLIDE RATHER THAN GLOSS OVER IT. UM, SO I DO HAVE AN EXAMPLE, BUT BEFORE WE GET INTO THE NITTY-GRITTY OF THE EXAMPLE, UH, DELTA CREDITS TO DEMYSTIFY IT IS A VERY SIMPLE CALCULATION. IT'S THE PARKING REQUIRED FOR THE EXISTING USE, AND THEN YOU SUBTRACT THE PARKING PROVIDED FOR THE EXISTING USE. AND THAT IS YOUR NUMBER OF DELTA CREDITS. IT'S NOT AS COMPLICATED AS IT SOUNDS. IT GETS COMPLICATED ON STAFF SIDE BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING TO MAKE SURE NOTHING FELL OFF THE BOOKS. IN THE MEANTIME, WE'RE MAKING SURE EVERYTHING WAS LEGAL BECAUSE IF THEY UNLAWFULLY REMOVE SPACES OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IS GOING ON. BUT THE DEL - A DELTA CREDIT REALLY IS JUST AN ACCOUNTING NUMBER TO SAY, "HEY, THEY'RE GOOD ON PARKING. WE CAN'T COME AFTER THEM FOR THIS EXISTING USE." SO IS THERE A DATABASE WITHIN THE CITY OF DELTA CREDITS BY PROPERTY? NO. WELL - AND THE REASON WHY - I'LL GO BACK A FEW SLIDES. UH, THAT PUTS IT INTO THIS NOT NANA LAND THEN. UH, WHAT'S THAT? WELL, IF THERE'S NOT A DATABASE IN THE CITY ABOUT THE DELTA CREDITS PER PROPERTY, HOW DOES THE STAFF COME UP WITH THAT MAGIC NUMBER? I GUESS IT'S A COMPARISON TO 1945. NO, IT'S GONNA BE THEY LOOK THROUGH PERMIT HISTORY, THEY LOOK AT SATELLITE IMAGES, THEY LOOK AT THE EXISTING SURVEY. THEY LOOK AT A LOT OF THINGS TO COME UP WITH. SO, SO DELTA CREDITS ARE REALLY VERY SUBJECTIVE. NO, NOT AT ALL. WE ARGUE ABOUT DELTA CREDITS ALL THE TIME, BUT IT'S THE STAFF CALCULATION IS WHAT MATTERS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY CAN BUY PARKING SPACES SOMEWHERE ELSE. THEY CAN GO GET PARKING AGREEMENTS. THEY CAN COME TO THE BOARD FOR A REDUCTION. BUT DELTA CREDITS ARE SIMPLY AN ACCOUNTING NUMBER TO SAY THAT THEY HAVE THAT, THEY HAVE ENOUGH PARKING TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE AN EXISTING USE. UM, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THIS LITTLE TABLE HERE, YOU'LL SEE OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS ARE GOING UP, DOWN, SIDEWAYS. IT'S CHANGING YEAR TO YEAR. IT CHANGES QUITE OFTEN. UM, SO IT'S HARD TO KEEP A DATABASE OF A MOVING TARGET WHEN OUR REQUIREMENTS CHANGE. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A PROPERTY OWNER'S THERE FOR 50 YEARS, MAYBE 10 YEARS. WHO KNOWS? UM, AND IF YOU'LL NOTICE, A LOT OF THESE REDUCTIONS WENT TO ZERO. SO A LOT OF THESE PLACES MAYBE THAT WERE BUILT IN 1940 THAT HAD NO PARKING, HAD ALL THESE DELTA CREDITS UP UNTIL 2024, AND NOW WE DON'T REQUIRE ANY PARKING. SO DOES ANYBODY WANNA GUESS HOW MANY DELTA CREDITS THEY HAVE NOW? NONE. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DELTA CREDITS BECAUSE WE'RE NOT REQUIRED, REQUIRING PARKING FOR MANY OF THOSE USES. SO THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WHY WE DON'T HAVE A DATABASE IS BECAUSE WHATEVER THE CITY'S CODE SAYS ON PARKING REQUIRED IS HOW YOU FIND THAT FIRST NUMBER TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE DELTA CREDITS ARE. OKAY, SO THE EXAMPLE, THIS IS THE MOST SIMPLE EXAMPLE, MAYBE TOO SIMPLE. UM, LET'S THINK WE'RE IN 1945 AND WE HAVE A 2,000 SQUARE FOOT CORNER STORE AND IT OPENS WITH A CO, HAS ALL THE THINGS IT NEEDS, ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK WE HAD COS IN 1945. UM, AND THEY HAVE NO OFF-STREET PARKING, UM, AND THEY HAVE FIVE SPACES ON THE STREET, [04:10:01] RIGHT? UM, SO THE SITE COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIRED PARKING. THAT'S WHY WE GAVE THEM A PERMIT TO OPEN. AND, UH, THERE ARE ZERO DELTA CREDITS IN 1945 WHEN IT OPENS BECAUSE IT'S COMPLIANT. UH, 1947, WE ADDED A PARKING, UH, REQUIREMENT THAT SAID IT NEEDED ONE SPACE FOR EVERY 500 SQUARE FEET. SO THAT 2,000 SQUARE FOOT STORE NOW REQUIRES FOUR SPACES AND THEY HAVE FIVE THAT ARE ON-STREET, BUT WE WERE OKAY WITH ON-STREET BACK IN 1947. SO, UM, IT STILL HAS ZERO DELTA CREDITS, EVEN THOUGH IT REQUIRES FOUR SPACES. IN 1965, UH, THE PARKING RE- REQUIREMENT INCREASES AGAIN TO ONE PER 200 SQUARE FEET, AND, UH, AND IT ALSO REQUIRES THE PARKING SPACES TO BE OFF-STREET IN 1965. AND SO SINCE THERE'S NO COMPLIANT OFF-STREET PARKING SPACES, NOW THERE ARE 10 DELTA CREDITS BECAUSE 10 ARE REQUIRED, ZERO ARE LAWFULLY PROVIDED THAT MEET OUR CODE, AND, UM, AND THEY HAVE 10 DELTA CREDITS. SO LET'S FAST-FORWARD TO 1990. THE CITY REMOVED ALL ON-STREET PARKING SPACES WHEN THEY REDID THAT STREET. UM, BUT THEY STILL HAVE 10 DELTA CREDITS BECAUSE THEY HAVE 10 REQUIRED, NONE PROVIDED OFF S - OFF-STREET. UM, AND SO 1990, THEY STILL HAVE 10 DELTA CREDITS. IN 1992, THE STORE WENT OUT OF BUSINESS AND WAS VACANT FOR 10 YEARS, BUT THERE ARE STILL 10 DELTA CREDITS. UM, AND SO IN 2002, A NEW OWNER ACQUIRED, UH, THE VACANT LOT NEXT DOOR AND IT BUILT A 500 SQUARE FOOT PATIO AND 15 SPACES TO CONVERT THE STORE INTO A COFFEE SHOP. AND COFFEE SHOPS, SINCE THEY ADDED 500 SQUARE FEET, UH, REQUIRES ONE SPACE FOR 100 SQUARE FEET SINCE IT'S A RESTAURANT. AND THEY STILL GET TO CARRY FORWARD THOSE 10 DELTA CREDITS, EVEN THOUGH THEY EXPANDED, CONVERTED THE, THE USE, AND PROVIDED 15 PARKING SPACES ON THE LOT NEXT DOOR. OOPS. LET ME GO THE RIGHT... DOES THE CODE SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATE DELTA CREDITS? YES. IT HAS, IT HAS A SECTION IN THE DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT TALKS ABOUT DELTA CREDITS AND HOW THEY'RE CALCULATED AND HOW THEY'RE RETAINED. YES. OKAY. UM, AND THEN WE'RE IN 2025 NOW AND NO PARKING IS REQUIRED FOR RESTAURANTS THAT ARE FOR THE FIRST 2,500 SQUARE FEET. SO SINCE THERE AREN'T ANY PARKING SPACES REQUIRED, THERE ARE NO DELTA CREDITS FOR THIS BUSINESS ANYMORE. SO THAT'S DELTA CREDITS IN A NUTSHELL. DOES THAT MAKE ANY MORE SENSE? OKAY, GREAT. YES. IT CHANGES OVER TIME, BUT THE SIMPLE THING YOU GOTTA REMEMBER IS PARKING REQUIRED FOR THE EXISTING USE MINUS PARKING REQUIRE - SORRY, PARKING PROVIDED ON SITE, AND THAT'S YOUR NUMBER OF DELTA CREDITS. IT'S JUST TO BALANCE THE, UH, THE PARKING REQUIREMENT OUT FOR THE EXISTING BUSINESS SO THEY CAN CONTINUE OPERATING AND NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM BECAUSE WE CHANGED OUR RULES TO REQUIRE MORE PARKING. I THINK... MS. LAM. SO THAT IS JUST GENERAL DELTA CREDITS, RIGHT? THAT DOESN'T PERTAIN... THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE DELTA CREDIT OVERLAY, CORRECT? RIGHT. THE MODIFIED DELTA OVERLAY, NUMBER ONE, THE ONLY ONE ON LOWER GREENVILLE HAS LITTLE DIFFERENT, UM, UH, CONDITIONS ON DELTA CREDITS. THE CALCULATION'S THE SAME, BUT YOU CAN LOSE YOUR DELTA CREDITS MORE EASILY. RIGHT. BY LIKE VACANCY OR CHANGE EX- EXPANDING SPACE OR CHANGING USE. IF YOU'RE, UM, VACANT FOR - 12 MONTHS. 12 MONTHS OR MORE, IF YOU EXPAND, UM, IT ALSO EXTENDS THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT FOR PARKING, UH, AGREEMENTS BY 300 FEET. UM, IT SAYS... THIS IS COMING ON THE LAST SLIDE TOO, BUT, UM, YOU CANNOT GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR A PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTION. I FEEL LIKE THERE'S A, THE LAST ONE. OKAY. ANYWAY, YES. THERE'S SOME SPECIAL RULES, BUT IT IS THE ONE EXCEPTION. OKAY. UM, SO THE LEGAL STANDARDS OF REVIEW, WHICH I HOPE ARE THE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. UM, THE BOARD SHALL CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING FACTORS, THE EXTENT TO WHICH PARKING SPACES WILL BE PROVIDED REMOTE, SHARED, MEANING MAYBE LIKE TWO BUSINESSES ARE SHARING THE SAME PARKING SPACE, BUT THEY HAVE DIFFERENT HOURS, UM, OR PACKED PARKING, WHICH IS OUR WAY OF SAYING VALET. UM, [04:15:02] AND, UH, THE PARKING DEMAND AND TRIP GENERATION CHARACTERISTICS OF ALL USES FOR WHICH THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS REQUESTED. UM, SO FOR THIS ONE, SINCE IT'S TALKING ABOUT PARKING DEMAND AND TRIP GENERATION CHARACTERISTICS, THIS IS VERY TECHNICAL LANGUAGE THAT ENGINEERS ARE LOOKING AT. UM, A LOT OF THEM... WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THE STANDARD IS TO LOOK AT THE... HOLD ON, I ALWAYS GET THIS NAME WRONG. INSTITUTE FOR TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERS MANUAL, UM, THAT IS THIS, UM, ON THE, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN. SO, UH, THIS IS FROM A PAGE IN A VERY THICK MANUAL THAT THEY HAVE. UM, AND REALLY IT'S JUST ONE PAGE, SO, YOU KNOW, BEAR WITH ME AS I STRUGGLE THROUGH THIS. BUT THIS PARTICULAR PAGE IS ABOUT A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT WITH A DRIVE-THROUGH, UM, ON A WEEKDAY. AND SO THEY PLOTTED OUT THEIR STUDIES, AND IF YOU CAN SEE ALL THESE BLACK DOTS ON THIS PLOT, YOU'LL SEE THAT IT'S... AND SO THE Y AXIS IS THE AVERAGE VEHICLE TRIP INS, WHICH KIND OF TRANSLATES TO HOW MANY CARS ARE COMING IN AND OUT. UM, AND THE X AXIS IS, UH, THE GROSS SQUARE FLOOR AREA OF THAT PARTICULAR USE THAT THEY STUDIED. SO IF YOU'LL SEE, THERE ARE DOTS ALL OVER THIS PLOT, AND THEY CAME UP WITH A, A, A LINE, A TREND LINE, AND THEY CAME UP WITH AN AVERAGE. AND, UM, IT... SORRY. WHERE'S MY CURSOR? SO THIS ISN'T A REQUIRED STUDY. THIS IS A STUDY THAT YOU'VE SEEN USED. NO, THIS IS PART OF A MANUAL THAT TRAFFIC ENGINEERS USE TO COME UP WITH TRIP, UH - OKAY. TRIP DEMAND. WHAT IS IT? TRIP GENERATE... SORRY, THIS - TRIP, TRIP GENERATION. THERE WE GO. I'M MAKING THIS LITTLE WINDOW SMALLER SO I CAN SEE MY SCREEN. UH, YES, THE PARKING DEMAND AND TRIP GENERATION CHARACTERISTICS. AND, UM, SO YOU'LL SEE, LIKE, A 3,000 SQUARE FOOT, UM, DRIVE-THROUGH FAST FOOD RESTAURANT, UM, COULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TRIPS OR A LOT OF TRIPS, AND IT DOESN'T REALLY RELATE TO THE FLOOR AREA. SO OUR ASSUMPTION IN OUR CODE IS THAT ONE PARKING SPACE FOR EVERY 100 SQUARE FEET OF FLOOR AREA FOR A RESTAURANT IS APPROPRIATE TO ESTABLISH A MINIMUM. SO WHAT THIS FACTOR THAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING IS WHICH ONE OF THESE POINTS IS APPROPRIATE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY'VE... HOPEFULLY, THEY'VE DONE SOME STUDIES, SOME OBSERVATIONS WHERE THEY SAID, "OH, WELL, WE HAVE THIS MANY PATRONS TO OUR PLACE ON THESE DAYS." AND ANYWAY, SO, UM, THIS RED BOX HERE IS SAYING, "HEY, TH - USE THIS RATIO VERY CAREFULLY. IT'S NOT REALLY A DIRECT CORRELATION. IT'S AN AVERAGE, YOU KNOW. IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH WHERE YOU ARE IN THE CITY, YOUR ACCESS TO TRANSIT, YOU KNOW, YOUR TYPE OF BUSINESS MODEL, ALL THESE KINDS OF THINGS. SO THE RATIO IS NOT THE GOLDEN STANDARD, IS WHAT A LOT OF THESE SAY. LET'S SEE. OKAY. THE NEXT THING, UM, IT TALKS ABOUT MV OVERLAY, BUT THE ONLY ONE WE HAVE SAYS YOU CAN'T DO IT, SO I'M SKIPPING THAT. UM, D SAYS THE CURRENT AND PROBABLE FUTURE CAPACITIES OF ADJACENT NEARBY STREETS BASED ON THE CITY'S THOROUGHFARE PLAN. UM, THE THOROUGHFARE PLAN IS A DOCUMENT THAT, UH, TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE CONSIDERS. THEN CPC, UM, MAKES A RECOMMENDATION ON, AND CITY COUNCIL APPROVES ULTIMATELY. AND IT GENERALLY JUST TALKS ABOUT, UM, THE RIGHT OF WAY WIDTH, SO THE PART OF THE STREET THAT THE CITY OWNS. UM, IT DOES HAVE SOME F - BIKING FACILITIES ON SOME STREETS. UM, WE PUT OUR SIDEWALKS IN THESE RIGHT OF WAYS. SO, UM, SO I THINK YOU WOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERING CAPACITIES OF BICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS. UM, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT CAPACITIES IN OUR THOROUGHFARE PLAN, SO PART OF YOUR STUDY. UM, IT... THE AVAILABILITY OF PUBLIC TRANSIT, SO YOU MIGHT LOOK TO SEE IF THERE'S, UM, BUS ROUTES IN THE AREA, UM, AND THE FEASIBILITY OF PARKING MITIGATION MEASURES, SUCH AS CARPOOL. MAYBE THERE'S A CARPOOL PROGRAM FOR THE BUSINESS. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY, ALL THESE FACTORS YOU'LL WANT TO SEE IN THEIR REPORT THAT THEY'RE, UM, THAT THEY PROVIDE IN THEIR EVIDENCE. SO THE [04:20:01] NOTABLE PLACES, JUST WANTED TO... THIS IS THE LAST SLIDE HERE. UM, SO WE ALREADY WENT OVER THE DESIGN DISTRICT HAS A 50% REDUCTION ALLOWED. UM, THAT PD WAS ADOPTED IN 2002, AND IT ALSO HAS REDUCED, UH, PARKING MINIMUMS GENERALLY FOR A LOT OF USES. UM, SO IF YOU WILL, UM, ONE WOULD THINK THAT THE, UM, PEOPLE INVOLVED CREATING THAT PD THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS SOME FLEXIBILITY, UM, ANTICIPATED FOR THAT AREA. UM, AND THEY ALSO HAVE A LOT OF OTHER BONUSES AND CREDITS THAT THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IN THAT PD. UM, I ALSO WANNA MENTION SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS ARE NOT ALLOWED, BUT VARIANCES ARE IN THE MD1 LOWER GREENVILLE AREA, PD 193, AND ANY PD OR SEP WHERE THE PARKING REQUIREMENT IS SPECIFIED UNLESS THE PD ALLOWS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS PARKING REDUCTIONS SUCH AS 65. SO THE CITY COUNCIL'S CHANGE IN BASE ZONING FOR PARKING REQUIREMENTS APPLIES TO ALL AREAS IN THE CITY OTHER THAN PDS. IT DIDN'T CHANGE ANY PDS, CORRECT? NOT PDS GENERALLY. PDS WITH SPECIFIED PARKING RATIOS. OKAY. PDS WITH SPECIFIED PARKING RATIOS. YES. SO A LOT OF PDS JUST POINT TO BASE ZONING. RIGHT. AND IN THAT CASE, IT GOES TO WHATEVER THE COUNCIL JUST CHANGED IT TO. RIGHT. OKAY. QUESTIONS FROM MS. MAY REGARDING OUR FAVORITE SUBJECT OF PARKING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. THAT WAS NOT A SHOT AT YOU AT ALL. IT WAS JUST THE FRUSTRATION OF TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MS. BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, OUR NEXT SPEAKER. NEXT TRAINING EXERCISE. UM, DALLAS ZONING REFORM UPDATE BY OUR DEPUTY DIRECTOR, MS. ANDREA. GOOD AFTERNOON. WELCOME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SPENDING A LITTLE BIT OF TIME WITH US. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME AND FOR BEING INTERESTED IN THE ZONING REFORM. UM, IT'S MY HONOR TO PRESENT IN FRONT OF YOU. MY NAME IS ANDREA WUDRA. I AM THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. UM, JUST IN A FASHION, UH, MY PORTFOLIO INCLUDES BOTH PLANNING AND ZONING. I HAVE TWO ASSISTANT DIRECTORS, MEGAN WYMER AND AS - ARTURO DEL CASTILLO. MEGAN WEIMER IS BASICALLY, UH, HAVE A PORTFOLIO THAT COMPRISES OF THIS TEAM, BUT... AND ARTURO DEL CASTILLO HAS A PORTFOLIO THAT COMPRISES THE TEAM OF CONSERVATION DISTRICTS THAT SOMETIMES COME IN FRONT OF YOU AS WELL. UM, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALLOWING ME. I'M GONNA, TO TALK ABOUT THE, UH, ZONING REFORM. I'M GONNA SWITCH THE ANGLE COMPLETELY. I KNOW IN HERE WE DEAL WITH DETAILS AND I LOVE THAT. I LOVE TO GET TECHNICAL ABOUT ZONING. I'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY SEVEN YEARS, AND I THINK A LOT OF THOSE YEARS WERE JUST PROCESSING ZONING CASES. SO ZONING IS KINDA LIKE MY LOVE LANGUAGE. UM, WE... I THINK I WAS HERE LAST YEAR AT THE ANNUAL MEETING JUST TO GIVE ANOTHER TEASER TO SAY WE'RE GETTING READY TO START THE ZONING REFORM. WE'RE GONNA COME BACK WHEN WE'RE READY WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE, AND I THINK WE ARE NOW. UM, KAMIKA, IF YOU WANNA GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. SO WHAT'S GOING ON? FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS, AND I HAVE A, A DIFFERENT SLIDE, WE'VE BEEN, UH, TASKED BY CITY COUNCIL... LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, ACTUALLY. WE'VE BEEN TASKED SINCE 2023, UH, BY CITY COUNCIL TO LOOK AND TO START THE COMPREHENSIVE REFORM OF THE DALLAS DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH IS CHAPTER 51 AND 51A, THE ONE THAT, UH, YOU DEAL WITH IT AT EVERY MEETING TO DEVELOP A MODERN, OUTDATED, UH, UPDATED USER-FRIENDLY DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT'S STREAMLINED, CONSISTENT, CLEAR, AND ALIGNED WITH CITY PLANS AND POLICIES. AND I DO LIKE TO KEEP THIS FIRST BULLET POINT IN HERE BECAUSE THIS IS AN EXCERPT FROM THE RFP AND THE CONTRACT. THIS IS OUR TASK THAT CITY COUNCIL GAVE US. UM, AND I KNOW 2023 IS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT BETWEEN THEN AND NOW, WE HAD TO DO WITH, UM, WE HAD TO ESTABLISH A VISION FOR THE CITY. AND I THINK A LOT OF YOU ALSO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AND HAVE HEARD ABOUT FOR DALLAS 2.0, WHICH IS OUR COMPREHENSIVE VISION FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS. SO WE HAD TO BASICALLY, THAT'S THE PLAN THAT ESTABLISHES THE VISION, AND NOW THE ZONING REFORM IS ONE OF THE TOOLS THAT IMPLEMENTS THE VISION. SO BETWEEN 2023 AND NOW, UM, CITY OF DALLAS, UM, ADOPTED FOR DALLAS 2.0 IN 2024. THEN WE PAUSED A LITTLE BIT TO FINISH THE PARKING REFORM. THANK YOU FOR BEING INTERESTED IN THAT ONE. UM, WE RELEASED A CODE DIAGNOSTIC. WE HAVE A CONSULTANT BETWEEN THEN AND NOW, OBVIOUSLY, WE SELECTED A CONSULTANT. THEIR NAME IS CAMIROS. UM, I THINK YOU SEE THEM ON THE SLIDE HERE. UM, THE FIRST THING THAT THEY DID IS THEY LOOKED IN OUR CODE AND THEY RELEASED A DIAGNOSTIC TO SAY, "HEY GUYS, THIS IS WHAT WORKS. THIS IS D - WHAT DOESN'T." THEY, UM, ISSUED A DIAGNOSTIC REPORT LAST YEAR, UM, THAT WAS, UH, PRESENTED [04:25:01] TO THE CITY, TO THE CITY COUNCIL, AND TOWARDS THE END OF IT, WE STARTED TO WORK ON A DRAFT. HERE, KIND OF LIKE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, UM, SINCE SEPTEMBER, WE KEEP, WE KEPT ON ENGAGING A VERY HIGH LEVEL WITH THE COMMUNITY, BUT IN THE BACKGROUND, WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH OUR CONSULTANT TO BASICALLY REWRITE THE ZONING FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS. WE ARE NOW ENTERING THE RELEASE PHASE ON... I'M THINKING ABOUT MAYBE WE NEED TO GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. OUR TASK, I WANNA GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID IN THE FIRST BULLET POINT AND WHAT IS THE NORTH START BASICALLY THAT WE'RE USING FOR THE ZONING REFORM. WE CALL IT DALLAS ZONING REFORM, SIMPLE, CLEAR, FUTURE READY. THESE ARE THE THREE PILLARS THAT... I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO SAY. THIS IS BASICALLY OUR TEST FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE PUT IN THE ZONING REFORM. IS IT SIMPLE ENOUGH? IS IT CLEAR? IS IT FUTURE READY? AND WE ARE EXPLAINING WHAT THOSE ARE. KEEP IN MIND, THESE ARE THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES. WE TOOK THEM FROM WHAT COUNCIL MANDATED US AS REMEMBER THE FIRST BULLET POINT FROM THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. THEY TOLD US TO CREATE RULES THAT ARE SIMPLE AND TO BE READY AND ADOPT CITY COUNCIL POLICIES. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UM, THE INPUT AND INFLUENCE IS BASICALLY WHAT DID WE BASE A RECOMMENDATION OR A FIRST DRAFT THAT IS COMING, UH, FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION AND CONS - UH, CONVERSATION VERY SOON THIS WEEK. UM, WE BASED IT, AS I SAID, FOR DALLAS 2.0, WHICH IS OUR COMPREHENSIVE LAND USE POLICY IS THE FIRST ONE THAT CITY OF DALLAS EVER HAD. UM, THEN WE HAVE NEW STATE LEGISLATURE. I DON'T KNOW. UM, I'M ASSUMING A LOT OF YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE NEW STATE LAWS THAT ACTUALLY MANDATE US OR S - UH, BASICALLY TELL US THAT OUR ZONING MUST ALLOW MULTIFAMILY EVERYWHERE, OFFICE, RETAIL, UM, COMMERCIAL WAREHOUSES ALLOWED, WHICH BASICALLY IMPOSES A MANDATE ON US THAT NEEDS TO BE EMBEDDED IN OUR CODE, RIGHT? WE HAVE A NEW STATE LAW THAT, UM, TELLS US THAT LOTS THAT ARE OVER FIVE ACRES AND NOT DON'T HAVE A PLAT MUST ALLOW, UH, LOTS THAT ARE MINIMUM 3,000 SQUARE FEET IN, UM, AREA. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF NEW STATE LAWS THAT WE NEED TO EMBED. ON TOP OF THAT, I WOULD SAY STATE LAW IS LEADING WITH AN INTENT. THE INTENT WAS STATED IN THIS LAW TO ALLOW A DIVERSITY OF HOUSING NEEDS. UM, AND WE ALSO HAVE A NEW FEDERAL LAW. UM, I'M HOPING SOME OF YOU KNOW ABOUT IT. IF NOT, PLEASE DO, UM, ATTEND OUR TRAININGS, COME TALK TO US. IT'S CALLED, UM, 21ST CENTURY ROAD TO HOUSING ACT. IT'S A FEDERAL, UH, LAW THAT NOW, UM, BASICALLY TELLS MUNICIPALITIES TO GO LOOK AT THEIR ZONING CODES BECAUSE FEDERAL FUNDING IS GONNA BE TIED TO OUR READINESS AND THE WAY WE ALLOW HOUSING IN OUR CITIES. UM, WE WANTED TO BE IN PAUL POSITION FOR THAT, UM, BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, WE LOSE A LOT, WE USE A LOT OF THOSE MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF OUR HOUSES IN THE CITY OF DALLAS. WE LOOKED AT PEER CITY RESEARCH AND BEST PRACTICES. UM, WE HAVE CONSTANT, UH, ONGOING STAKEHOLDER INPUT FROM ALL SORTS OF COMMUNITY. UM, AND LET'S NOT FORGET, AND THIS IS A S - THIS IS A BULLET POINT THAT ELONIE, UM, HELPED ME WORD AND WE LIKE TO LEAD WITH IT. OUR ZONING CODE IS AT LEAST 60 YEARS OLD, AS WE ALL KNOW, UM, AND HAS BEEN PATCHED AND PATCHED. WE HAVE PDS, WE HAVE DEED RESTRICTIONS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE A CODE THAT BASICALLY IS BEING AMENDED AS WE SPEAK BY CREATING NEW PDS. SO WE'RE IN A POSITION, AND WE'VE BEEN IN THIS POSITION WHERE IF THE RULE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE, MAYBE WE NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE RULE A LITTLE BIT MORE. I WILL ALSO, UM, GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, NUMBER. MORE THAN 20% OF THE CITY OF DALLAS IS COVERED BY PDS. WE HAVE MORE THAN 1500, I WOULD SAY 2000 OF THEM, UM, PROBABLY THE MOST IN THE COUNTRY. UM, I WOULDN'T WEAR THAT AS A, AS A HONOR BADGE BECAUSE IT JUST MEANS THAT THAT'S CUSTOMIZED ZONING TO BASICALLY KIND OF LIKE MAKE IT WORK FOR DEVELOPMENT. IT JUST, IT JUST SHOWS OUR READINESS. UM, I WOULD SAY THAT PROBABLY, BUT THIS IS A NUMBER I'M JUST SHOOTING FOR, UM, PROBABLY MORE THAN 20% OF THE CITY IS ALSO COVERED BY DEED RESTRICTIONS, WHICH IS ALSO A ZONING LAYER THAT'S UNSEEN. SO I KEEP ON SAYING THERE ARE SO MANY CHANGES OR, UM, CUSTOMIZATION TO THE RULE THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE RULE IS, WHICH IS THE BASE CODE, RIGHT? UM, OKAY, LET'S MOVE A LITTLE BIT INTO WHAT THE ZONING REFORM, UH, BASICS ARE. SO THIS IS GONNA BE A NEW CHAPTER THAT IS GONNA COMPLETELY REPLACE CHAPTER 51 AND 51A. UM, WE'LL CALL IT SOMETHING FOR THE PURPOSES OF NOW, WE'RE GONNA CALL IT THE DALLAS ZONING REFORM. UM, [04:30:01] WE DO HAVE A SMALL NUMBER OF SPECIALIZED REGULATIONS LIKE SCARMAS THAT ARE NOT PART OF THIS CONTRACT. THEY'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO REMAIN IN 51A OR WHATEVER WE'RE GONNA DO WITH IT, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA BE CHANGED. UM, IN, AGAIN, IN THE FASHION OF, KEEP IN MIND, SIMPLE, CLEAR, FUTURE READY. THE ORGANIZATION OF THE NEW CODE IS GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT FLATTER. UM, THE ARTICLES ARE ARRANGED IN A WAY THAT ARE MORE CLEAR, MAY - IT'S EASIER TO NAVIGATE, SO OBVIOUSLY THE CODE HAS TO BE EASIER TO MANEUVER. UM, IT'LL HAVE AN AUTOMATIC IMPLEMENTATION, MEANING EVERYTHING THAT'S IN CHAPTER 51A NOW IS GONNA TRANSITION TO THE NEW CODE, UM, AUTOMATICALLY. WE'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE THE ZONING ON THE GROUND. WE'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE THE DISTRICT SIZE AND THEIR BOUNDARIES, BUT - SO, FOR INSTANCE, OUR 75 ZONING, IT STAYS R75 ZONING OR IT HAS A NEW NO - A NOMENCLATURE? IT'S GONNA HAVE A NEW NOMENCLATURE AND NEW REGULATIONS. SAME THING WITH R5, R1 ACRE, ALL THOSE? ALL THE ZONING DISTRICTS, INCLUDING FORM BASE. BUT IF, BUT IF I'M IN R75, I'M STILL GONNA BE IN AN R7 LOT FIVE AREA, SO MY AREA, MY NEIGHBORHOOD ZONING'S NOT CHANGING, JUST HOW THE CITY CALLS IT? YES, AND YES, STAY TUNED. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING CHANGES, OF COURSE. UM, WE ARE OBVIOUSLY SENSITIVE AND WE'RE DOING A TRANSITION AND WE'RE SENSITIVE TO WHAT THE CODE HAS RIGHT NOW, BUT - SO R75 HAS CERTAIN ATTRIBUTES, HEIGHT, SETBACKS, UH, FLOOR AIR RATIO, ALL THOSE SORT OF THINGS. ARE THOSE BEING CHANGED? EACH OF THOSE COMPONENTS? IS IT TRANSITIONED TO THE NEW? MAY, MAYBE. MAYBE. SO HOW DOES AN INDIVIDUAL... I'M PERSONALIZING FOR YOU. HOW DO I AS A HOMEOWNER IN NORTH DALLAS, PRESTON AND FOREST, HOW DO I KNOW MY NEIGHBORHOOD'S BEING AFFECTED BY THIS OR NOT? HOW DOES THE AVERAGE PROPERTY OWNER KNOW? SO WE'RE MOVING A LITTLE BIT AHEAD. UH - OKAY, THEN I'LL, I'LL WAIT. OKAY. GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY. THANK YOU. THAT'S OKAY. I'M JUST ENVISIONING, AS YOU JUST SAID, THE TRANSITION'S HAPPENING AUTOMATICALLY. I'M THINKING, WOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT MY NEIGHBORHOOD, HER NEIGHBORHOOD, ALL, ALL OUR NEIGHBORHOODS ARE CHANGING AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT IT'S CHANGING TO? THE, THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS OR FOR THE ENTIRE CITY OF DALLAS MAY CHANGE. THEY MAY REMAIN THE SAME, BUT THEY ALSO MAY CHANGE. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. UH, PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT. PLAN DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS AND OTHER LEGAC- LEGACY DISTRICTS WOULD ONLY CHANGE AS FAR AS THEY HAVE A S - A CALLBACK TO THEIR BASE CODE. BUT WHATEVER IS WRITTEN IN THE ORDINANCE IS GONNA OBVIOUSLY STAY BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED BY COUNCIL. SO THE SAME CONVERSATION WE HAD ABOUT THE PARKING REFORM. IF THE ORDINANCE FOR THE PD SPECIFIES THOSE, THOSE ARE CONTINUED TO BE IN THERE BECAUSE THEY ARE VOTED BY ORDINANCE. AND ANDREA, WHAT, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OUR CITY IS BLANKETED BY PDS VERSUS BASED ZONING? I WOULD SAY MORE THAN 20%. IT'S ONLY 20. I THOUGH IT'D BE MORE THAN 20. ONLY 20. I WOULD SAY MORE THAN 20%. UM, I WILL... WE'RE WORKING, WE ALREADY HAVE A ZONING MAP. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE COLORED ONE. YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE IT ONLINE AS WELL. IT'S THE CORE, EVERYTHING THAT'S AROUND THE CORE, BUT IT'S ALSO ON CORRIDORS. IT'S, WE HAVE A LOT OF PDS. BUT ONLY 20%. I THOUGH IT WOULD BE THE OTHER WAY. I WOULD SAY MORE THAN A, MORE THAN A, MORE THAN 20%. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, UH, FOR INSTANCE, ON WHAT THE CHAPTERS OF THE CODE WILL BE. AGAIN, IT'S STILL A ZONING CODE. YOU ARE VERY WELL VERSED INTO READING AND, UM, UH, WORKING WITH ZONING. UM, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT. BUT THIS IS JUST TO SHOW THAT IT'S A, IT'S A STRUCTURE THAT IS CLEAR, UH, CLEARER AND EASIER TO FOLLOW. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. OKAY. SO, UM, THIS PRESENTATION IS JUST A TEASER. THIS IS NOT A PRESENTATION OF WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS. THE PROPOSAL IS GONNA BE, UH, UNVEILED AT CITY PLAN COMMISSION. SO NOW I'M PUSHING A LITTLE BIT FORWARD. AT CITY PLAN COMMISSION ON THURSDAY AT 9:00 AM, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BRIEFING, AND THEN AFTER WE'RE DONE WITH THE BRIEFING, WE'RE GONNA PUBLISH THE, THE DRAFT ON THE WEBSITE. BUT IN ORDER FOR US TO GIVE A TEASER AND TO JUST, LIKE, EXPLAIN HOW WE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT AND HOW TO NAVIGATE A LITTLE BIT, UM, THE ENTIRE, LIKE, REDOING THE ZONING FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS, WE KINDA LIKE, UM, DIVIDED INTO FIVE MAIN TOPICS, WHICH IS, WHICH ARE THE ONES THAT YOU SEE ON THE SLIDE HERE. SO I WOULD SAY IF I AM TO SUMMARIZE ALL OF THIS, AND I, I, I WOULD READ THEM IF NEED BE, BUT IF I'M TO SUMMARIZE, THE FIRST ONE IS HOUSING. THE SECOND ONE IS PRESERVE IN A BETTER FORM. THE THIRD BULLET POINT WOULD BE PROCESS. THE FOURTH IS UPDATE, AND THE FIFTH IS BALANCE. SO ENCOURAGE A WIDER VARIETY OF HOUSING OPTIONS THAT CAN MEET DIVERSE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY. PROMOTE SUSTAINABLE GROWTH PATTERNS THAT STRAIN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS MORE ACCESSIBLE, PREDICTABLE, AND TRANSPARENT. MODERNIZE OUTDATING ZONING RULES AND OLD [04:35:01] APPROACHES THAT NO LONGER, LONGER SERVE OUR COMMUNITY. STRIKE A THOUGHTFUL BALANCE BETWEEN PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT. AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, THAT THOUGHTFUL BA- BALANCE IS VERY IMPORTANT AND IS HARD TO STRIKE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. I WILL JUST GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN, UM... NEXT SLIDE. NO, IT'S OKAY. UH, I WILL TAKE EACH BULLET POINT AND I, WE, WE TRY TO, LIKE, EXPLAIN OR AGAIN, GIVE A TEASER WHAT THE CODE MIGHT CONTAIN, RIGHT? UM, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THIS CODE TO ENCOURAGE A WIDER RANGE OF HOUSING OPTIONS? UM, ADD CONTEXT SENSITIVITY, DESIGN AND DIMENSIONAL STANDARDS FOR DWELLINGS TO PROTECT EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS. WE DON'T HAVE DESIGN STANDARDS IN THE CODE RIGHT NOW, AS YOU ALL KNOW. ALLOW NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE HOUSING OPTIONS WITH DESIGN STANDARDS. INCREASE MULTIUNIT HOUSING AND MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT ALLOWANCES INTO CERTAIN LOCATIONS AND CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICTS. UM, DECREASE ALLOWABLE MINIMUM LOT DIMENSIONS AS APPROPRIATE TO ALLOW SMALLER HOMES AND SMALLER LOTS IN ALIGNMENT WITH STATE LAW. THEY ALREADY TOLD US TO DO THAT. I WOULD MAKE A COMMENT, AND I WOULD SAY ABSOLUTELY ALL OF THIS. WHAT WE HAVE BEEN MANDATED WITH FOR DALLAS IN, IN GENERAL WAS TO FIND AND ALLOW HOUSING OPTIONS THAT ARE MORE SUITABLE FOR HOME OWNERSHIP. SO EXPAND HOME OWNERSHIP TYPE OF HOUSING TO BE AVAILABLE FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS. ALL OF THIS BASICALLY ARE AIMING TOWARDS THAT. THAT'S AN INTERESTING PHILOSOPHICAL GOAL. THE COUNCIL HAS THE RIGHT TO SET THAT. YET THE NEW STATE LAW IS FOCUSED ON MULTIFAMILY. YEAH, MULTIFAMILY CAN BE OWNERSHIP AS WELL. WHAT, WHAT'S THAT? MULTIFAMILY CAN BE OWNERSHIP AS WELL. WHAT IN CONDOMINIUMS? YES. BUT THE BROAD MAJORITY OF MULTIFAMILY IS APARTMENTS, WHICH ARE RENT, RENTERS. I'M JUST SAYING IT'S AN INTERESTING DICHOTOMY BETWEEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THE EMPHASIS IS ON HOME OWNERSHIP, YET WHATEVER, THE SB, WHAT'S THE SB? 840. 840 SAYS YOU AUTOMATICALLY, BY RIGHT, HA - CAN DO MULTIFAMILY IN ALL THESE COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS. YES, I WILL GO BACK AND SAY MULTIFAMILY CAN BE HOME OWNERSHIP AS WELL. MULTIFAMILY IS ANY TYPE OF ARRANGEMENT OF DWELLING UNITS ON A LOT THREE AND ABOVE. SO A SMALL MULTIFAMILY CAN HAVE FOUR UNITS, RIGHT? THOSE CAN BE ATTACHED ON A LOT. THEY, THOSE CAN BE OWNERSHIP AS WELL. SO THERE ARE SO MANY ARRAYS BETWEEN JUST A NORMAL, WHAT YOU WOULD SEE, OR THE NORMAL PREVAILING FORM OR OF A DETACHED, UH, HOME ON A LARGER LOT AND THE LARGE MULTIFAMILY. AND THAT IN BETWEEN IS THE ONE THAT WE KIND OF LIKE JUST SEE SCATTERED HERE AND THERE IN THE CITY OF DALLAS IN, IN GENERAL, UM, IN THE METROPLEX. I WOULD ALSO MAKE A COMMENT TO SAY IF YOU GO IN THE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CORE OF THE CITY, ESPECIALLY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, YOU WILL BE A, YOU WILL SEE A VERY GOOD BLEND OF THOSE HOUSING TYPES. YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF DUPLEXES, A LOT OF FOURPLEXES, A LOT OF LIKE VERY SMALL COMPACT TYPE OF, UM, HOUSING UNDER ONE ROOF, SOME OF THEM BEING OWNERSHIP AS WELL. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. FOR THE SECOND BULLET POINT, FOR INSTANCE, UM, JUST THINKING ABOUT COMPACT GROWTH, TRANSPORTATION, GREEN IN GENERAL, AND ENVIRONMENT, WE SAID ALLOW COMPACT GROWTH THAT PROVIDES FISCALLY SOUND COMMUNITY-ORIENTED ZONING DISTRICTS, CONSOLIDATE ZONING DISTRICTS TO SIMPLIFY ZONING REGULATION, ENSURE SEPARATION OF HEAVY INDUSTRIAL LAND USES FROM RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, ENCOURAGE GROWTH NEAR TRANSIT. THAT WAS A BIG PILLAR OF, FOR DALLAS 2.0, UH, TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT. SUPPORT TREE PLANTING AND PRESERVATION. IN TALKING TO THE COMMUNITY, WE'VE HEARD REPEATEDLY, AND EVEN US, WE ARE LEADING TO HOW CAN WE INCREASE AND PRESERVE OUR TREE CANOPY IN THE CITY? WE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT, UH, THEY DO VALUE, UH, TREES AND, UH, THE VALUE THAT THEY BRING TO NEIGHBORHOODS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS MORE ABOUT, AS I SAID, PROCESS, MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS MORE ACCESSIBLE. I THINK THE BIG WORD IN HERE IS PREDICTABILITY. WHEN YOU HAVE SO MANY EXCEPTIONS OR CUSTOMIZATIONS TO THE RULE, IT KIND OF LIKE MAKE, MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT UNPREDICTABLE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS NOT KNOWING WHAT'S GONNA COME IN THE CORRIDOR NEXT DOOR, NOT NECESSARILY NEXT DOOR TO THEM. UM, WE ALSO ARE THINKING OF HOW CAN WE MAKE THE ADMINISTRATIVE, UM, APPROVALS VERY OBJECTIVE TO KINDA LIKE A- ALLOW A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY TO THE CODE. SO THAT GOES TO MY QUESTION. SO WE'RE HERE, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, AND WE'RE EMPOWERED BY THE, BY ORDINANCES IN THE CODE THAT GRANTS US THE AUTHORITY TO DO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. HOW IS, HOW DOES THESE CHANGES AFFECT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? THE SAME... I MEAN, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT RETAINS THEIR POWER THE SAME THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW. IT'S JUST THAT YOU'RE GONNA BASE IT ON A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES AND REGULATIONS, BUT OBVIOUSLY YOUR POWERS - A DIFFERENT, A DIFFERENT SET OF CRITERIA? UM, I DON'T THINK WE LOOKED INTO CHANGING THOSE. THAT'S WHY I WAS LIKE, ONCE I STARTED, I WAS THINKING [04:40:01] IT'S GOOD THAT I HAVE SARAH THERE. SARAH'S PART OF OUR CORE GROUP, SO I DON'T THINK WE CHANGED IT AND WE'RE WORKING WITH THE ATTORNEYS. YOU HAVE TO - BUT WHEN YOU SAY ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEWS, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT OR YOU OR THE DESIGNEE MAKES THOSE DECISIONS AS OPPOSED TO A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. NO, THOSE ARE, ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MI- MINIMAL ADJUSTMENTS JUST IN CASE OF CERTAIN SITUATIONS AND WE CAN PUT CRITERIA IN THE CODE. WE DO ZONING INTERPRETATIONS RIGHT NOW AS WELL. WE JUST WANNA TAME THEM A LITTLE BIT. OKAY. AND JUST TO ALLOW A LITTLE BIT MANEUVERING ROOM JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO PULL A PERMIT, NOT TO CHANGE ANYTHING OR WE, WE ARE NOT LOOKING EVER TO REPLACE ANY OF THE POWERS. ON, ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, GO BACK ONE SLIDE. UM, WELL, IT'S, IT'S TWO SLIDES. THANK YOU. WELL, WAIT A MINUTE HERE. IT SAID CONSOLIDATE... ZONING DISTRICTS - YES. TO SIMPLIFY ZONING REGULATIONS. THAT SOUNDS LIKE FIGHTING WORDS TO A SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD. YES, I WOULD PREFER - WELL, I, I'M, I'M NOT PICKING A FIGHT WITH YOU, ANDREA AT ALL. I UNDERSTAND. WHEN I SAW THAT, I WENT, "WHOA. 7.5 DISTRICTS BECOMING FIVE DISTRICTS OR ONE ACRES BECOMING 75? SO LET ME GIVE YOU A, LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT IT'S EASIER AND IS NOT FIGHTING WORDS, RIGHT? I WOULD PREFER, I WOULD SAY THAT MY, UH, PLEA TO THE ENTIRE, UH, POPULATION OF DALLAS, I'M A DALLAS SITE. I, AGAIN, I'M WORK, UH, LEAVE, PLAY IN THIS CITY. THAT'S, THIS IS MY CITY AS WELL. UM, IS LET'S ALL IMAGINE A BETTER DALLAS WORLD. LIKE, WE'RE DOING THIS TO BETTER OURSELVES. WE'RE NOT DOING THIS TO DESTROY. WE'RE NOT DOING THIS TO PICK FIGHTS OR NOTHING. I WOULD PREFER, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. THIS DOESN'T BECOME A FIGHT. IT BECOMES A MOMENT FOR US TO COLLECTIVELY REFLECT OF WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE DALLAS BETTER. AND, AND THAT'S IT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. UM, BUT GOING BACK TO CONSOLIDATION OF ZONING DISTRICTS, LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. UM, I THINK WE HAVE SEVEN ZONING DISTRICTS JUST FOR OFFICE. DID YOU KNOW THAT? OKAY. WELL, THAT MAKES SORT OF SENSE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I JUST - WE, WE HAVE - I JUST VISIT NEIGHBORHOODS, YOU KNOW, TREETOPPERS, I MEAN, SIGN TOPPERS, SO THEY'RE VERY PROUD ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I CAN SEE PEOPLE GETTING VERY NERVOUS ABOUT WHEN YOU USE THE WORD CONSOLIDATE ZONING DISTRICTS. W- WE HAVE TO CONSOLIDATE THEM. WE HAVE A LOT OF THEM. WE HAVE A LOT OF ZONING DISTRICT. WE HAVE, FOR INSTANCE, SO I SAID OFFICE USES, UH, OFFICE DISTRICTS. I WILL ALSO SAY WE HAVE UC, WHICH IS URBAN CORRIDOR DISTRICTS. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ZONED TO THOSE. UH, BUT IT IS TRUE. ON THE ART DISTRICTS, WE DO HAVE A LOT OF ZONING DISTRICTS AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM IS VERY SMALL. WE HAVE SMALL PATCHES OF THE CITY. THERE ARE ZONED, A CERTAIN ZONING DISTRICT, AND A LOT OF THE LOTS INSIDE THOSE ARE NON-CONFORMING. SO WE'RE, WE HAVE TO ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND THAT WE, WE NEED TO RIGHT SOME OF THE WRONGS. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. UM, LET'S SEE. UM, WE SAID MAKE SURE THE LANGUAGE AND ORGANIZATION OF THE CODE IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND. WE'RE ADDING ILLUSTRATION. I'M SO THANKFUL FOR THAT. AND AGAIN, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME IN THE FIRST DRAFT. WE WILL HAVE EVEN MORE. I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A PREDICTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY TYPE OF WAY OF WRITING CODES. ALLEN USE METRICS THAT IS A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THREE PAGE, THREE SECTIONS OF THE CODE TO JUST FIND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT A LAND USE, FOR INSTANCE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UM, NOW WE'RE, UM, MODERNIZED OUTDATED ZONING RULES. SO LET ME MAKE A PERSONAL COMMENT ON THIS. IT SOUNDS LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE UPDATING THE CODE. IT SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT CASUAL. I NEED ALL OF US TO UNDERSTAND. WE NEED TO CATCH UP. LIKE, IT, IT IS... WE ARE WAY, WAY BEHIND ON HOW WE REGULATE LAND IN THE CITY OF DALLAS, WAY BEHIND N - THE NATION, WAY BEHIND THE CITIES AROUND US. THE SUBURBS, THEY, THEY REVIEW COMPREHENSIVELY THEIR ZONING CODES WAY QUICKER AND IN, IN A DIFFERENT TIME THAN WE DO. OUR CURRENT ZONING CODE IS FROM 1987, AND WE TRANSITIONED THE CODE FROM 1967. IT IS VERY EASY ASSUMPTION TO SAY, OR IT'S A VERY GOOD, EASY STATEMENT THAT WE ARE OPERATING ON A CODE THAT HAS THE BONES FROM THE 60S, WHICH I DON'T THINK... WE DON'T LIVE LIKE THAT ANYMORE, AND I THINK THAT'S THE FUTURE-READY PORTION. SO IT'S NOT... I, I SAY UPDATE OR OUTDATED IS VERY MILD COMPARED TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE. LIKE, FIRST, WE NEED TO CATCH UP, AND THEN WE NEED TO ADVANCE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO BE COMPETITIVE BECAUSE WE WANNA... WE ARE A BIG CITY. WE'RE THE NINTH LARGEST IN, IN US, AND I FEEL LIKE WE'RE NOT COMPETITIVE. UM - MR. Q - O- ONE SECOND, SA - MR. SACHINI. MR. QUINT, AND THEN I'LL COME TO YOU. WHAT CITIES ARE YOU SAYING WE NEED TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH? JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY. AROUND US, THE NATION, W - ALL THE CITIES. AROUND US BEING ALLEN AND HOLLAND PARK. COULD BE - WHAT'S AROUND US? HELP ME UNDERSTAND. COULD, COULD BE THAT TOO. COULD BE, COULD BE THE METROPLEX, COULD [04:45:01] BE, UM, ALL THE OTHER CITIES IN TEXAS. WE JUST NEED TO CATCH UP WITH THEM AND BE AT THE SAME, UH, BOARD WITH THEM. OR NATIONWIDE. I'M STILL UN - SORRY. I'M STILL UNCLEAR WITH THE ANSWER. UM, HELP... SO WE'RE THE NINTH LARGEST CITY. ARE WE COMPARING OURSELVES TO NEW YORK AND BOSTON? HELP, HELP ME UNDERSTAND. I, I WOULD SAY THAT, UM, I'M TRYING TO, LIKE, UM... I WOULD SAY THAT WE NEED TO BE OURSELVES, BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, THE WAY WE WRITE LOGISTICALLY, THE WAY ZONING IS BEING WRITTEN IS WAY OUTDATED. THE WAY WE DO IT IN DALLAS AS COMPARED TO OTHER CITIES. THAT'S THE STATEMENT THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE. BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT GIVING ME OTHER CITIES. WHO, WHO'S, WHO'S THE GOLD STANDARD IN WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? AND THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. I WOULDN'T SAY WE HAVE A GOLD STANDARD. I WOULD PREFER FOR US TO HAVE A GOLD STANDARD. ALL THE, ALL THE CITIES THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO, A LOT OF THEM HAVE UPDATED OR ZONING CODES THAT ARE, ARE WRITTEN AND MORE UP-TO-DATE THAN OURS. I DON'T HAVE A GOLD STANDARD, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT. USUALLY, WE LOOK AT THE PRACTICE, THIS IS HOW YOU WRITE. THERE ARE A LOT OF CITIES THAT HAVE JUST FORMED BASE OR THERE ARE A LOT OF CITIES THAT HAVE A HYBRID, RIGHT? WE JUST GONNA DO WHAT MAKES SENSE FOR DALLAS, BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE WAY BEHIND. BEHIND WHO? AGAIN, I'M - BEHIND THE STANDARD OF HOW YOU WOULD WRITE ZONING. HOW YOU WOULD LOOK AT MIXED USE DISTRICTS, HOW YOU WOULD INCLUDE DESIGN STANDARDS, HOW WOULD YOU MEASURE HEIGHT, WHERE... YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? JUST TECHNICALITIES. BUT, BUT, BUT BACK AGAIN, TOO. THEN WHO, WHAT CITY IS THE GOLD STANDARD FOR THAT? I, I, I DON'T, I WOULDN'T GIVE YOU A GOLD STANDARD. I'M READING ZONING... I'M, I'M READING ZONING ORDINANCES AROUND US, AND I FIND THINGS THAT I LIKE. I FIND THINGS THAT I DON'T LIKE. SO I WOULDN'T SAY THAT IT'S A COMPETITION OR A GOLD STANDARD WHO HAS THE BEST... EVERYBODY HAS THE CODE THAT THEY NEED. OURS HASN'T BEEN UPDATED SINCE 1987. OTHERS DO IT A LITTLE BIT MORE OFTEN. MR. SASHINGTON. UH, ANDRE, UH, THANK YOU. I, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE NOT WANTING TO... UH, YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC CITY THAT YOU WANT TO SAY, UM, IS A STANDARD, BUT, UM, I WOULD JUST SAY, YOU MENTIONED CITIES AROUND US INTER - IN THE METROPLEX THAT WE, THAT OUR STANDARD, THAT WE ARE FAR BEHIND THEM, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT MANY OF THESE CITIES ARE EMERGING, RIGHT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST NOW... RECENTLY, I WON'T SAY JUST NOW, BUT RECENTLY BUILDING OUT INFRASTRUCTURE. WHEN I MOVED TO THE METROPLEX IN 2006, FRISCO WAS FULL OF CORNFIELDS AND PROSPER AND ALL OF THESE CITIES. SO IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT THEIR CODES AND ORDINANCES WOULD, WOULD GROW AS THEY HAVE GROWN. SO, UM, I, I, I, I GET THE POINT THAT YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO, UM, JUDGE OURSELVES ABOUT OURSELVES AND NOT OTHER CITIES, BUT IN, IN LIGHT OF THAT TO, UH, UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE, UM, UH, GROWTH AND BENEFITS AND IMPROVEMENTS THAT OTHER CITIES ARE DOING. UM, UM, SO I WOULD JUST SAY, I MEAN, WHAT'S THE TIMELINE, UH, YOU KNOW, A- AS IT RELATES TO THAT? ARE YOU... DO WE HAVE A, UM, AN IDEA OF WHEN WE'LL HAVE THAT DONE, WHEN WE'LL HAVE, UM, WHAT WE COULD SAY THAT WE ARE SETTING THE TREND TO BE ON PATH TO THE GOLD STANDARD? YES. YES. SO I HAVE TWO MORE SLIDES AND I'LL GET TO THE TIMELINE. IS THAT OKAY? THANK YOU. SO NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, KAMIKA. THE LAST, THE LAST THEME WAS TO STRIKE A THOUGHTFUL BALANCE BETWEEN PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT TO BASICALLY JUST LEAD WITH ALLOW AND PROTECT. UM, I TALKED ABOUT DESIGN STANDARDS AND INFILL STANDARDS. WE DON'T HAVE INFILL STANDARDS RIGHT NOW. UM, EXPAND NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION TOOLS, UH, KEEP DEVELOPMENT SCALE CAPPED AT NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE, AND CHANNEL GROWTH THRO - TOWARDS TRANSIT-ORIENTED MIXED URBAN, MIXED-USE URBAN VILLAGES AND CORRIDORS, AGAIN, ALL ALIGNED WITH FOUR DALLAS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. NEXT STEPS. BE- BEFORE YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, GO BACK, UH, STAY ON 126 THERE. TWO ACRONYMS COME TO MIND. WHEN I FIRST GOT INVOLVED IN THE CITY 15 YEARS AGO, 20 YEARS, 20 YEARS AGO, NIMBY AND CAVE PEOPLE. UH, OKAY. NIMBY, NOT IN MY BACKYARD. CAVE IS CITIZENS AGAINST VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING. I HAD NEVER HEARD THE TERMS BEFORE. THIS IS BEFORE I WAS AN ALTERNATE. I DIDN'T KNOW THE TERM CAVE . THIS IS BEFORE... BEVERLY MENDOZA IN OAK CLIFF, WHEN I LIVED IN, IN OAK CLIFF, NORTH OAK CLIFF, SHE SAID, "NOW, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT CAVE PEOPLE, DAVE." AND I'M THINKING, "WHAT? WHAT IS SHE SAYING?" SO THIS SLIDE BRINGS UP THESE TWO THINGS, NOT MY BACKYARD AND CITIZENS AGAINST VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING. I'M NOT SAYING IT FOR... I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS. I'M JUST SAYING IS IT WILL BRING IN CONFLICT WITH THIS BALANCE BETWEEN PRESERVATION, MEANING PROTECTION OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD. NOTICE MY COMMENT EARLIER WAS, WHAT ABOUT OUR 75 [04:50:01] DISTRICTS? I'M IMMEDIATELY THINKING OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD, YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, MR. QUINN'S NEIGHBORHOOD, MR. SA - EACH OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THEM? DO WE... ARE WE GONNA GET SMALL LOTS IN BIG NEIGH - IN BIG LOT NEIGHBORHOODS? THAT'S THE FEAR, ANDREA. MM-HMM. I UNDERSTAND. YES. YEAH. THAT'S THE FEAR. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, ARE YOU GONNA HAVE, UM, MIXED, A MULTIFAMILY ADJACENT TO SINGLE FAMILY? WELL - YEAH. AND BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A TRANSITION OF SORTS SO THAT ONE LIVES HAPPILY, PEACEFULLY. I'M NOT SAYING ONE'S GOOD OR BAD. WE'VE ALL LIVED IN APARTMENTS, SO I'M NOT NAY SAYING APARTMENTS, BUT THEY'RE A TRANSITION. SO - I UNDERSTAND. THAT'S WHAT THIS SLIDE TELLS ME. IT SAYS, "OOH, DON'T BE A CAVE PERSON AND DON'T BE NIMBY BECAUSE THOSE ARE TRAPS THAT WE FALL INTO. BUT ON THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO PROTECT EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS. SO, AND THAT'S BEYOND OUR SCOPE UNTIL A CASE COMES TO US CASE BY CASE. YEAH. AND I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS VERY MUCH, AND THANK YOU FOR THEM. I THINK... I, I WOULD SAY YES. I, I THINK A CONVERSATION NEEDS TO BE HAD JUST BECAUSE... AND ONLY, I WOULD SAY, IF WE START THERE, JUST BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE A STATE LAW THAT ALLOWS MULTIFAMILY - UH, AND I'M NOT ARGUING WITH THE STATE LEGISLATURE.YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT ISSUE IS CLOSED. YES. BUT STATE LEGISLATURE STILL ALLOWED US TO ADD SOME DESIGN STANDARDS FOR COMPATIBILITY, AND I THINK NOW WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. HOW CAN A 45-FOOT MINIMUM, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ENTIRE ONE THAT NOW THEY HAVE FROM STATE LAW THAT IS GONNA BE IN A CR DISTRICT. CR USUALLY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE CLOSER. COMMUNITY RETAIL. EXACTLY, EXACTLY. SO I THINK OUR ZONING REFORM IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENVISION WHAT THE TRANSITION, HOW CAN WE COEXIST TOGETHER? AND THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENT. UM, SO THE FIRST DRAFT, WHICH WILL BE WHAT'S NEXT? NOVEMBER 5TH, CITY PLAN COMMISSION, UH, BRIEFING AND RELEASE OF THE DRAFT CODE ON THE WEBSITE. IT IS A CONVERSATION DRAFT. IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT ANYBODY, ZOAC OR CIT - ZOAC IS OUR ZONING, UH, ORDINANCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE OR CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OR COUNCIL TAKES ACTION ON. NONE OF THAT WILL GO FOR CONSIDERATION WITH ANY OF THE BODIES. WE... IT'S A PUBLIC DRAFT, NUMBER ONE. IT'S TOOK US A LITTLE BIT TO KIND OF LIKE EMBED AND PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER IN A PACKET TO PRESENT TO THE PUBLIC FOR REACTIONS AND TO EN - AS I SAID, ENVISION DALLAS WRITTEN DIFFERENTLY. UM, IT IS A CONVERSATION DRAFT. PLEASE DO ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THAT. UM, WE, OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE ONE-ON-ONES WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS IN THE MONTH OF DECEMBER, AND I THINK EVEN JANUARY, WE'RE THINKING OF OPEN HOUSES WHERE WE'RE GONNA, LIKE, HAVE AREAS, UH, VISIT AREAS OF THE CITY AND JUST BE THERE FOR HOURS AND WELCOME THE COMMUNITY TO COME AND ASK US QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DRAFT. UM, WE ARE GONNA START... SO, UM, THE ZONING CHANGE PROCESS WHEN IT COMES TO CODE AMENDMENTS, WE HAVE... OBVIOUSLY, IT NEEDS TO BE APPROVED BY COUNCIL. SO CITY, AS A STAFF, WE, YOU KNOW, OUR ONLY POWER IS TO PROPOSE AND TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, AND THEN COUNCIL IS THE APPROVAL BODY. BUT, UM, BETWEEN COUNCIL AND US, WE HAVE CITY PLAN COMMISSION, WHO YOU, YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH CITY PLAN COMMISSION. THEY ARE A RECOMMENDATION BODY. THEY ARE THE PLANNING ZONING ADVISORY BOARD OR RECOMMENDATION BOARD FOR CITY COUNCIL. AND CITY PLANNING COMMISSION HAS ADVISORY COMMITTEES. ONE OF THEM IS ZONING ORDINANCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, THE INFAMOUS ZOAC. WE'RE GONNA START TO ENGAGE WITH ZOAC AS EARLY AS DECEMBER, JUST BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BIG ENDEAVOR. WE FEEL THAT WE NEED TO START WORKING WITH THEM. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY WILL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. IT'S JUST DISCOVERY TYPE OF WORK. THIS IS HOW THIS IS WRITTEN. THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT. SO WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TOWARDS THE NEXT DRAFT. UM, UM, ALL THE ZOAC MEETINGS ARE OBVIOUSLY ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, OUR PUBLIC MEETINGS. UM, WE'RE IN, IN RECEIVING PUBLIC COMMENT CONTINUOUSLY. WE'RE STILL RECEIVING IT FOR, UM, THE, UM, THE PREVIOUS PHASES AS WELL. BUT WE ARE RECEIVING THEM VIA OUR WEBSITE. WE'RE PLANNING TO, TO BE IN FRONT OF THE COMMUNITY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, VIRTUAL MEETINGS, EVERYTHING. YOU'LL HEAR FROM US. UM, IF YOU, UH, DID NOT SIGN UP OR IF YOU WOULD LIKE FOR US, WE CAN ALSO SEND, ADD YOU TO OUR, LIKE, AN ENGAGEMENT TYPE OF LIST. AND EVERY TIME SOMETHING HAPPENS OR SOMETHING HAPPENS ON THE WEBSITE, YOU GET AN EMAIL TO BE NOTIFIED AS WELL. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING TO HAVE CONTINUOUS EXHIBITION AT CITY HALL LOBBY WHERE WE, WE'RE GONNA PRINT. UH, IT'S KINDA LIKE 100 PAGES, MORE THAN 100 PAGES OF A FEW HUNDRED PAGES DOCUMENT. WE'RE GONNA HAVE THEM PRINTED AS WELL. WE'RE GONNA KEEP ONE IN OUR OFFICE AT CITY HALL IN CASE NOT EVERYBODY LIKES THE, THE WEBSITE. WE'RE GONNA HAVE, UM, HARD COPIES AS WELL. AND WE'RE GONNA DO TESTING, TESTING, TESTING. I CANNOT SAY THIS ENOUGH BY THE COMMUNITY, BY EXPERTS, BY PROFESSIONALS. A LOT OF THE, UM, [04:55:01] GROUPS, PROFESSIONAL TYPE OF GROUPS ARE VERY INTERESTED. THEY ALREADY REACHED OUT TO US. THEY'RE WAITING FOR THE DRAFT. BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, FOR INSTANCE, OR WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THEY ARE WAITING FOR THIS TO KINDA, LIKE, READ IT TO SEE, DOES IT MAKE SENSE? BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT'S JUST A DRAFT. WE MAY HAVE PUT HERE A PROVISION THAT, COMBINED WITH THIS PROVISION, DOESN'T BUILD A HOUSE, RIGHT? UM, AND THEN WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH OTHER CITY DEPARTMENTS BECAUSE SANITATION, FIRE, WATER UTILITIES, PARKS, ALL THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE CITY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CONNECTION WITH OUR ZONING REFORM, AND THEY WILL... THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT IT'S COMING, AND WE NEED TO KNOW THAT IF SOMETHING IS CHANGING FORM-WISE, IT WILL IMPACT THEIR DEPARTMENT OR NOT. AND ALL OF THIS WILL ACTUALLY INFORM, AND WE'RE GONNA RELEASE A DRAFT TOO. SO JUST, AGAIN, USE THE FIRST DRAFT THAT'S COMING OUT ON THURSDAY AS A CONVERSATION DRAFT. LOOK AT IT AND SAY, "OKAY, THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THIS MAKES SENSE. THIS I LIKE, THIS I DON'T." AND LET US KNOW AND WORK WITH YOUR COMMUNITIES, YOUR REPRESENTATIVES AS WELL, UH, BECAUSE WE WANNA HEAR FROM EVERYBODY. AND THEN NEXT SLIDE, KAMIKA. MS. PEREZ HAS A QUESTION. YES. UH, YOU MAY HAVE COVERED THIS, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE. SO FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE A PD WHERE THEY'VE, LET'S SAY, RESTRICTED THE... HOW HIGH NEW HOMES CAN BE BUILT OR THE LOT COVERAGE, IS THAT GETTING ERASED AS WELL? OR DO THOSE PDS HOLD? OR WHAT'S THE STORY? THE GENERAL ANSWER IS NO. WHAT IS WRITTEN IN AN ORDINANCE IS GONNA REMAIN WRITTEN IN THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE THE ZONING, THE ZO - THE BASE CODE DOESN'T CHANGE THAT. UM, THE ONLY CHANGE TO THE PD IS IF IT DEFAULTS TO THE BASE CODE AND IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN IN THE ORDINANCE. WE HAVE A LOT OF PDS THAT ARE VERY, VERY PRESCRIPTIVE, LIKE PD 193 IN UPTOWN, FOR INSTANCE, VERY PRESCRIPTIVE. I THINK THE IMPACT TO THAT PD IS GONNA BE CLOSE TO ZERO. BUT WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF PDS THAT ONLY CHANGE ONE LITTLE THING, AND THEY DID THAT ON PURPOSE TO ALWAYS MAINTAIN THE BASE CODE. IF YOU HAVE PDS IN MIND, WE'RE GONNA ENTER IN A PHASE TO, TO TEST AND TO SEE WHAT THE IMPACT IS. UM, IF YOU HAVE ONE PD IN MIND, PLEASE DO SEND IT TO US. WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT IT, THE ANSWER. AND I KNOW IT INFURIATES A LOT OF PEOPLE. IT, IT IS... IT DEPENDS ON HOW THE PD IS WRITTEN. OKAY. MR. QUINT, WHAT WILL THIS PROGRAM BE CALLED, THIS, THIS PACKAGE? SO, LIKE, HOW WOULD... WILL THE, THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT IT'S CALLED? THE DALLAS ZONING REFORM. OKAY. SO, TIMELINE? SO, BEFORE YOU SAY THAT... WELL, WHY DON'T YOU FINISH THAT, THEN I'LL MAKE MY EDITORIAL COMMENT. OKAY. TIMELINE, AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO GET TO THIS POINT. UM, THIS IS , THIS IS BASICALLY FROM THE BEGINNING, FROM WHEN WE AWARDED THE CONTRACT, THEN WE STARTED WORKING ON IT TO... WE, WE DON'T KNOW. AGAIN, THE END DEPENDS ON THE, UH, CITY PLAN COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL. UM, YOU SEE IN HERE WITH ORANGE IS NOVEMBER 5TH IS WHERE WE'RE GONNA RELEASE THE FIRST DRAFT, THE CONVERSATION DRAFT. UM, THEN WE'RE THINKING MAYBE THE SPRING OF NEXT YEAR, WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO... WE'RE GONNA DO ENGAGEMENT BETWEEN NOW AND THE SPRING OF NEXT YEAR. SPRING OF NEXT YEAR, WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE... WE'RE HOPING TO PUT TOGETHER THE DRAFT TOO AND START ENGAGEMENT AND HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF THE ZOAC AND CITY PLAN COMMISSION. AND THEN DEPENDING ON HOW THOSE BODIES MOVE TOWARDS THE END OF THE YEAR OR WHENEVER THEY WANNA TAKE ACTION, THEY WILL. AND- ANDREA, THANK, THANK YOU. GO AHAD, I'M SORRY. AND THEN S - THE NEXT SLIDE, KAMIKA, IF YOU HAVE... OH, I DIDN'T DO ONE. I'M SORRY. I'M GONNA... IN ORDER FOR YOU TO FIND... W- WHEN WE SUBMITTED THIS ONE, UM, THERE WAS ONE SLIDE THAT I DIDN'T ADD. DALLASZONINGREFORM.COM, THAT IS THE WEBSITE. THAT IS WHERE YOU'RE GONNA FIND THE DRAFT PUBLISHED AND BE ABLE TO DOWNLOAD IT THURSDAY AFTERNOON. UM, AND IF NOT, REACH OUT TO US. WE'LL SEND YOU THE LINK. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, MY WIFE SAYS TO ME ALL THE TIME, I REPEAT MYSELF, AND I SAY AT EVERY BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETING, I DO REPEAT MYSELF. UH, I VERY MUCH, AND I THINK I'LL SPEAK FOR THE BOARD, EMBRACE THE NEED TO KEEP OUR DEVELOPMENT CODE, UH, UPDATED. I WOULD AGREE WITH MR. QUINT THAT IT'S IMPORTANT, UM, THAT... AND, AND, AND ALSO MR. SASHINGTON, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ONE-ON-ONE WITH THE EMERGING CITIES, AS MR. SASHINGTON REFERENCED, BUT WE WANNA STAY COMPETITIVE. UH, AT THE SAME TIME, NIMBY AND CAVE, CITIZENS AGAINST VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING AND NOT IN MY BACKYARD. AND WE HAVE TO BE ON GUARD THAT WE OPPOSE SOMETHING JUST BECAUSE IT'S A CHANGE. ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN YOU USE TERMS [05:00:01] LIKE CONSOLIDATE ZONING DISTRICTS, WHOA, THAT IS, THAT IS, THAT'S HIM FIGHTING WORDS. SO, UM, I MEAN, THAT REALLY GOT MY ATTENTION. UM, AND SO IT'D BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE AS THIS COMES OUT. UM, IF, AND I'LL ASK THIS OF OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND THEN SHE'LL COMMUNICATE TO YOU OR THE DIRECTOR. IF WE COULD GET SOME BRIEF SYNOPSIS OR SOMETHING THAT CAN COME BACK TO THE BOARD IN A COUPLE MONTHS OR IN A MONTH OR WHATEVER, SO THAT WAY, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT IN THE DECISION TREE ON THIS, WE WILL BE THE BYPRODUCT OF WHAT THE COUNCIL ADOPTS. UM, BUT IT'D BE INTERESTING FOR US TO KEEP INFORMED ABOUT THE CHANGES BECAUSE I WAS THINKING, OH GOSH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO READ 100 PAGES. UM, 400 PAGES, OH MY GOSH. SO I'M NOT GONNA DO THAT. WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT. UM - MY ONLY GOOD NEWS FOR YOU IS THAT RIGHT NOW YOU'RE READING A THOUSAND PAGES. SO IF YOU ARE ABLE TO HANDLE 51 AND 51A RIGHT NOW AND THE PDS, I'M TELLING YOU, YOU'RE GOOD TO GO. WELL, SO I, I, I'M, I SUPPORT THIS COUNCIL AND THE STAFF'S CHANGE. UM, BE ON YOUR GUARD THAT YOU'RE GONNA GET A LOT OF NIMBY AND A LOT OF CAVE PEOPLE. WE DON'T WANNA BE PART OF THAT. WE WANNA EMBRACE THAT. SOMETIMES ISSUES COME TO THE BOARD AND WE SCRATCH YOUR HEAD AND SAY, "THIS IS SO SIMPLE. WHY DO THEY HAVE TO COME TO US FOR THIS TYPE OF CHANGE?" ANOTHER TIMES THERE ARE THINGS THAT COMES TO A BOARD CASE AND WE GO, "OH MY GOSH, THAT'S A STRETCH." SO SOME IN BETWEEN IS HOPEFULLY WHERE YOU'RE GONNA LAND, UH, BECAUSE WE WANT THE HIGHEST BEST USE. UH, I'M JUST, I'M JUST TAKEN BY THAT CONSOLIDATING OF ZONING DISTRICTS THAT, AND THE, AND THE WHISPER ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SMALLER LOTS IN LARGER DISTRICTS. AND THAT, THAT, THAT THREATENS ESTABLISHED SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. AND AGAIN, THANK YOU THAT, THANK YOU FOR THAT. I, I APPRECIATE IT A LOT. KEEP ON, I CANNOT SAY THIS ENOUGH. IT'S THE CONVERSATION DRAFT. IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T WORK AND THIS IS JUST A DRAFT, AGAIN, COUNCIL IS THE ONE THAT'S APPROVING, IS GONNA GO THROUGH A LOT OF PUBLIC HEARINGS. BUT ALSO IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, OBVIOUSLY WE ARE HERE TO LISTEN AS WELL. SO - WE'RE TRYING TO, WE'RE TRYING TO DO OUR BEST. YES. AND WE APPLAUD THAT. AND SO SOMETHING THAT COULD COME TO US IN SOME WAY THAT WE CAN BE INFORMED, I'LL ASK THAT OF OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND YOU CAN WORK THAT OUT THROUGH THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE DIRECTOR. MR. FINNEY. UM, YEAH. SO I'M CURIOUS, ANDREA, UM, REGARDLESS OF WHAT VERSION OF THE CODE REFORM GETS PASSED, UM, IS IT A, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A GIVEN THAT IT WILL, IT MIGHT INCRE - IT WILL INEVITABLY INCREASE OUR CASELOAD. UM, IS THAT TRUE? AND IF, IF SO, LET'S JUST SAY THE CURRENT DRAFT, UM, THAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO RELEASE WERE TO GET PASSED LIKE TOMORROW. WHAT KINDS OF, UM, VARIANCES AND SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS WOULD WE LIKELY SEE, UH, COME THROUGH? I LOVE, I LOVE, IT WAS THE SAME. WE, WE BRIEFED THE SAME PRESENTATION ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL COMMITTEE YESTERDAY, AND OBVIOUSLY HALF OF THE COUNCIL MEMBER WERE TWO STEPS AHEAD US THE SAME AS YOU ARE NOW. UH, I, I DON'T KNOW. WE JUST NEEDED TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE A DRAFT AND THEN WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA TEST IT AND I'M WAITING FOR YOU ALL TO TELL US. BUT MY BRIEF ANSWER TO ALL OF THIS IS I'M HOPING IT'S NOT GONNA INCREASE ANY CASELOAD BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE A, A, A, A CODE THAT IS SIMPLE AND CLEAR, IT SHOULD WORK. THAT'S THE INTENT TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITHOUT NEEDING TO LIKE CHANGE IT OR ADJUST IT CONSTANTLY. THAT, THAT WOULD BE A GOAL THAT WE HAVE. SO MY HOPE WOULD BE THAT IT WOULD DECREASE EVEN ZONING CHANGES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, NOW IT WORKS. UM, SO LET'S HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IN FEW MONTHS AFTER EVEN I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT'S IN THERE. LIKE WE ALL WORKED ON IT, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S A LOT OF US AND IT'S A LOT OF INPUT AND WE HAVE A CONSULTANT AND WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. ANDREA? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE THE UPDATE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY. NOW WE'RE GONNA SWITCH GEARS. UM, SO WE'VE HAD, UM, THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING DEVELOPMENT ON 25, 26 AND PLANS 27. WE HAD FROM OUR INSPECTOR GENERAL ON ETHICS AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST. THEN OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TEAM AND THE PLANNING DEVELOPMENT TEAM WALKED US THROUGH APPLICANT FLOW TRAINING, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS VARIANCES, PAR- PARKING, SORRY, AND ZONING REFORM. NOW WE SWITCH GEARS TO THE BOARD ATTORNEY AND CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. SO, UM, WE'RE ON PAGE 130 IN YOUR BOARD PACKAGE AND I SEE THE BIG GUNS ARE COMING UP HERE NOW. ALL RIGHT. SO I'LL TURN THIS TO OUR BOARD ATTORNEY, KAITLYN BETHE. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. UM, I'M SO HAPPY TO HAVE MY COLLEAGUES HERE WITH ME GIVING THIS PRESENTATION. WE HAVE TERESA [05:05:01] CARLISLE, MATTHEW SAPP, AND DANIEL MOORE. AND AGAIN, MY NAME IS CAITLIN BETHE. UM, THEY'VE ALL BEEN FORMER BOARD ATTORNEYS MOST RECENTLY, MS. CARLISLE, AND I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN THEIR FACES AROUND. UM, AND WHILE WE'RE WAITING FOR, UM, MR. SAPP, HE'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE SHARING THE PRESENTATION. UM, SO IF WE COULD JUST GIVE HIM A SECOND. THERE WE GO. THAT IS AN, I, IT IS A VERY IRONIC PICTURE TO HAVE THESE THREE UP HERE IN FORUM. WE'RE LIKE BEING TAKEN OVER BY THE SEVENTH FLOOR. IN A GOOD WAY. OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT'S IT. TAKE, KEEP CONTROL OF THIS, MS. BOARD ATTORNEY. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THERE WE GO. SO CAN WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE NOW? A- A- AS IS OUR PRACTICE, UM, FORMER BOARD ATTORNEYS, UH, WE LIKE IT TO BE INTERACTIVE. SO, UM, WE WILL, UH, GENTLY INTERRUPT AS YOU PRESENT, UM, FOR QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. YES. AND THERE WILL ALSO BE, UH, JUST FYI, A FEW SLIDES, UM, THAT ENCOURAGE AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION. OH, I LIKE THAT. SO, UM, GET READY WITH YOUR THINKING CAPS AND, UM, DON'T BE AFRAID TO GIVE AN ANSWER. UM, I THINK WE LOST THE PRESENTATION ON SCREEN. ONE MOMENT. IS THAT THE FIRST TEST TO NOTICE THAT IT'S NOT ON THE SCREEN? ALL RIGHT, THERE WE GO. JUST, JUST GOTTA GET IT BACK IN PRESENTATION MODE. ALL RIGHT. SO JUST AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY, AND I KNOW WE'RE, UM, GETTING CLOSE TO THE, THE END OF THE AFTERNOON, SO WE WILL, YOU KNOW, TRY TO KEEP IT LIVELY AND EFFICIENT. UH, FIRST, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT STANDARDS FOR VARIANCES AND SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. MR. SAPP IS GONNA PRESENT ON THAT. NEXT, WE'RE GONNA DO A LITTLE BIT OF CASE LAW WITH THE VENESCO CASE. SOME OF YOU MIGHT ALREADY BE FAMILIAR WITH THAT ONE. MS. CARLISLE WILL BE PRESENTING ON THAT. THEN I WILL BE DISCUSSING APPEALS OF ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS AND TALK ABOUT, UM, AN APPEALED CASE THAT WENT TO THE COURT OF APPEALS. AND THEN I AM GOING TO DISCUSS SOME COMPLIANCE CASES REGARDING, UM, NON-CONFORMING USES, AND THEN MR. MOORE WILL DISCUSS TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT, MR. SAPP, TAKE IT AWAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNCILLOR. UM, SO AS SHE SAID, MY NAME'S MATHEW SAPP. I'M FORMER - A LITTLE CLOSER, MATTHEW. I'M FORMER BOARD COUNSEL - THANK YOU. WITH THE, WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, CURRENTLY WITH THE CITY PLAN COMMISSION. AND SO I'LL BE CONDUCTING THE PRESENTATION REGARDING VARIANCES AND SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. AND SO WE'LL START WITH THE STANDARD FOR VARIANCES. AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE VARIANCE STANDARD, I WANT YOU GUYS TO THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF A 3D SHAPE OF THE LOT. AND YOU'LL NOTICE THE LANGUAGE HERE IS THE FRONT, SIDE, REAR, WIDTH, DEPTH. THOSE ARE ALL DIMENSIONAL TERMS, RIGHT? SO WE THINK OF IT AS A, UH, 3D, UH, SHAPE OF THE LOT. AND THE VARIANCE IS ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT IF YOUR LOT IS DIFFERENT THAN OTHER LOTS IN YOUR ZONING CLASS, WE'LL GIVE YOU A ZONING EXCEPTION IN THE FORM OF A VARIANCE. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE THREE ELEMENTS, THERE'S, THAT THE VARIANCE IS NOT CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST, THAT THE VARIANCE HAS A HARDSHIP THAT'S EVIDENCED BY A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE, AND THAT HARDSHIP CANNOT BE, UH, GRANTED TO RELIEVE A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP. AND, AND THE HIDDEN SAUCE IS THAT HAS TO MEET ALL THREE CRITERIA. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IF YOU'LL NOTICE, LET'S SEE, I GOT MY LASER POINTER RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE WORD AND, AND SO YOU GOT ONE, NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST, TWO, A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE, AND THE THIRD ONE THAT IT'S NOT CREATED, UH, NOT SELF-CREATED RATHER. SO ALTHOUGH THE ELEMENTS ARE LISTED IN NUMERICAL ORDER ONE, TWO, THREE, I THINK WHEN ANALYZING THEM, IT'S BETTER TO DO IT IN A TWO, THREE, ONE ORDER, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT FIRST YOU WANNA DETERMINE WHAT THE HARDSHIP IS. SECONDLY, YOU WANNA DETERMINE THAT THAT, MAKE SURE THAT HARDSHIP IS NOT SELF-CREATED. AND THEN LASTLY, UM, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE VARIANCE IS NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE HARDSHIP, WE'VE, LIKE WE SAID, WE'RE FIRST GONNA ANALYZE... ACTUALLY, FIRST THING I WANNA POINT OUT IS THAT YOU'LL NOTICE THAT IN THE SECOND ELEMENT, THE, THE WORD HARDSHIP DOESN'T APPEAR. YOU'LL SEE THE PHRASE THAT THE LAND DIFFERS FROM OTHER PARCELS. AND SO THAT DIFFERING FROM OTHER PARCELS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE HARDSHIP IS, AND IT HAS TO BE EVIDENCED BY THE FACT THAT THAT DIFFERENCE IS IT IS RESTRICTIVE IN AREA, RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE, OR RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE. AND SO THOSE ARE THE THREE CRITERIA THAT YOU WANNA LOOK AT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT ELEMENT TWO. AND SO THE FIRST THING YOU'RE [05:10:01] GONNA DO FOR RESTRICTIVE AREA, AND THIS IS THE MOST, UH, STRAIGHTFORWARD ONE BECAUSE REALLY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE ACTUAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE LOT IN QUESTION VERSUS THE REQUIRED SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THAT ZONING CLASSIFICATION. SO IF THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION IS R70, R75, IT'S 7500 SQUARE FEET, AND YOUR LOT IS 6,000 SQUARE FEET, THAT'S LESS THAN 7,500 SQUARE FEET, ERGO, IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN AREA. WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT, UH, WHETHER IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE, YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT THE SHAPE OF THE LOT, RIGHT? AND LIKE, WHAT IS THE AVERAGE SHAPE OF A LOT IN THE CITY OF DALLAS SHOULD BE A RECTANGULAR, RIGHT? SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR A RECTANGLE. ANYTHING OTHER THAN A RECTANGULAR SHOULD SPARK, UH, YOU KNOW, SPARK SOME CURIOSITY. UH, IF IT'S A TRIANGLE, IF IT'S POLYGONAL, MEANING MULTI-SIDED SHAPE, IF IT'S UP AGAINST A CREEK AND IT'S GOT A WEIRD ANGLE, UM, IF IT'S REALLY NARROW OR MAYBE IT'S REALLY WIDE AND REALLY SHALLOW, UH, THAT WOULD BE CONSI - COULD POSSIBLY BE CONSIDERED A RESTRICTIVE IN, UM, SHAPE. AND THEN THE LAST ONE, OF COURSE, IS RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE, AND THAT'S JUST GONNA BE IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF DEVIATION IN, UH, TOPOGRAPHY, RIGHT? MEANING THAT THERE'S A, UM, A CHANGE IN ELEVATION, RIGHT? AND THAT CAN BE EVIDENCED BY, UM, TOPOGRAPHICAL LINES ON A MAP, THAT CAN BE EVIDENCED BY TESTIMONY FROM THE STAFF OR FROM THE APPLICANT. UM, AND SO A RESTRICTIVE SLOPE CAN BE CONSIDERED, UM - MR. HOPKOVIS HAS A QUESTION. UM, IF YOU WOULD ALSO TALK ABOUT THE LAST PART OF, UH, ELEMENT, UM, TWO, UH, BECAUSE WHERE I STRUGGLE IN SOME CASES, WHERE IT'S CLAIMED TO BE A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE, UM, IS THE NEXT PART OF THAT, THAT IT CANNOT BE DEVELOPED IN A MANNER COMMENSURATE WITH DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER PARCELS OF LAND IN THE SAME ZONING. THAT DOESN'T MEAN, BECAUSE IT'S RESTRICTIVE, ME WHO OWNS THAT LOT, I CAN BUILD WHATEVER I WANT BECAUSE IT'S, LOOK AT THE RES - IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN, IN SIZE OR RESTRICTIVE, RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE. I'D LIKE A LITTLE MORE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE COMMENSURATE WITH OTHER PARCELS, WHAT THE S - WHAT, HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO EVALUATE THAT VERSUS WHAT THE APPLICANT IS ASKING US TO APPROVE. CERTAINLY. SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHETHER IT CAN BE DEVELOPED IN A MANNER COMMENSURATE WITH, UM, OTHER PARCELS OF LAND IN THE SAME ZONING, SO IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE SAME ZONING CLASSIFICATION. SO WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, R5 IS 5,000 SQUARE FEET, R75, 7500 SQUARE FEET, R1, UH, OR MAYBE IT'S R10 IS, UH, 10,000 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN THERE'S A ONE ACRE, AND A ONE ACRE LOT IS 43,000 SOME ODD SQUARE FEET, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. AND SO ESSENTIALLY, IT'S SAYING THAT, LIKE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE STRATA THAT WE'RE COMPARING IT ALONG. UM, MS. UDREA JUST DISCUSSED, UM, PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS, AND YOU ALSO HAVE, LIKE, CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE EVEN FURTHER RESTRICTIVE, UH, THEIR OWN RESTRICTIONS. SO YOU'RE GONNA GO TO THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. SO YOU MIGHT BE A 7,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT, YOU'RE IN R75A, WE'RE GONNA COMPARE YOU ACROSS R75A ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY. IF YOU'RE IN, UM, A PD, YOU'RE ONLY COMPARED TO WHAT'S IN THAT PD BECAUSE THAT IS THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR FOR THAT, UM, FOR THAT BASE CLASS ZONING. I GUESS, YOU KNOW, UH, WHERE I'M STRUGGLING IS THEY COME TO US WITH PLANS AND THEY SAY, "THIS IS WHAT I WANNA BUILD ON THIS LOT." UM, WHAT IS OUR, WHAT IS OUR, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE EVALUATE THOSE PLANS AS TO WHETHER THEY ARE COMMENSURATE WITH SIMILAR PROPERTIES? OKAY, SO AT THIS POINT, I WOULD ONLY BE ANALYZING, UH, THE LAND, NOT THE STRUCTURE. SO THE, YOU'LL NOTICE THE LA - THE LANGUAGE THERE SAYS, "DEVELOPMENT UPON OTHER PARCELS OF LAND WITH THE SAME ZONING." SO THE FACT THAT THEY WANNA HAVE A GIANT HOUSE, UH, I MEAN, THAT'S THE RIGHT TO, LIKE, TO WANT TO HAVE A GIANT HOUSE, RIGHT? UM, BUT WE'RE COMPARING THE LOT. SO IT'S THE LOT IS GONNA BE RESTRICTIVE IN AREA,SHAPE OR SLOPE AS COMPARED TO OTHER LOTS IN THAT ZONING CLASSIFICATION ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY. AND THEN IF YOU FIND THAT THE LOT IS N - DOES NOT HAVE A HARDSHIP, THERE IS NO HARDSHIP TIED TO THE LOT DUE TO A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE, THEN THERE IS SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS IN A LITTLE BIT, WHICH IS THE, UH, SUBSTITUTIONS FOR THAT, WHICH IS WHEN THERE'S A STRUCTURE, AN EXISTING STRUCTURE, YOU CAN USE D10, UH, D10B, WHICH CAME FROM, WAS FORMERLY HOUSE BILL 1450. WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN A LITTLE BIT, BUT THAT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR STRUCTURES. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE TO WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING. YEAH, I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M ASKING MORE ABOUT STRUCTURES THAT ARE BUILT ON THOSE LOTS. CERTAINLY. MR. SASHINGTON. OH, PASS. MR. SLADE. MR. SAPP, THE, THE ENTIRE SETUP IS, IT'S THE APPLICANT'S BURDEN TO ESTABLISH THIS. SO THEY HAVE TO BRING TO US WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO SATISFY THESE RESPECTIVE CRITERIA TO BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH IT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED IN THE MANNER COMMISERATE, AND THAT'S WHY THEY COME UP WITH THE PLANS THAT THEY HAVE OR WHAT FOR FINANCIAL REASONS [05:15:01] ONLY MEAN. UM, THAT'S ON THEM TO KIND OF DO THAT, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. YES, SIR. MR. SASHINGTON. HE, HE NAILED WHAT YOU WANTED? OKAY, VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. KEEP GOING, MR. SAPP. SO LET'S SEE. WE WENT OVER RESTRICTIVE AREA. WE DID SHAPE, WE DID SLOPE. UM, SLOPE IS THE TOPOGRAPHICAL DEVIATIONS, RIGHT? AND SO THE CODE IS ESSENTIALLY IMPLYING THAT, UM, EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD BUILD ON A HILL, THAT THE, THE COST OF HAVING TO BUILD ON A HILL IS SO EGREGIOUS, WE'RE GONNA CONSIDER THAT A, UH, A HARDSHIP. SO I HAVE SOME EXAMPLES HERE, AND THIS LOT, UM, YOU GUYS WILL NOTICE, AND THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS LOT RESTRICTIVE IN AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE? AND THEN I ADD SOME ASSUMPTIONS HERE, WHICH IS THE LOT IS ZONED R75A, WHICH IS A 7,500 SQUARE FOOT LOT, AND THIS LOT ACTUALLY DOES HAVE 7,500 SQUARE FEET. UH, AND THEN ALSO, WE'RE GONNA ASSUME THAT THE LOT IS THE SAME SHAPE AS NEIGHBORING LOTS IN THE SAME ZONING CLASSIFICATION. AND SO WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO DETERMINE WHETHER THIS WAS RESTRICTIVE IN AREA, SHAPE OR SLOPE, WE WOULD LOOK AND SAY, "WELL, IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE IN AREA BECAUSE IT HAS THE REQUISITE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FEET FOR THAT ZONING CLASS." IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE BECAUSE THE SHAPE IS THE SAME SHAPE AS THE OTHER LOTS IN THE SAME ZONING CLASS. HOWEVER, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THERE ARE THESE GREEN TOPOGRAPHICAL LINES, AND THERE'S, UH, 17 OF THEM THERE. I COUNTED THEM. TOPOGRAPHICAL LINES TEND TO INDICATE A DIFFERENTIATION OF 10 TO 20 FEET IN ELEVATION. SO THIS LOT HAS APPROXIMATELY 170 TO 240 FEET IN ELEVATION CHANGE. SO THAT'S A PRETTY, UH, PRIME EXAMPLE OF RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE. THAT'S A HELL, THAT'S A HELL OF A SLOPE. IT'S PRACTICALLY A MOUNTAIN. SO, LIKE, I, I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANNA BUILD ON THIS, BUT I WANTED TO USE THIS JUST TO, FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES. I, I GOT IT. I COUNTED. I, YEAH. OKAY. UM, AND THEN THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE. SO WHEN ASKING, LOOKING AT THIS LOT, YOU'RE GONNA SAY, UH, OR MAKE ASSUMPTION THAT IT'S R75, IT'S ALSO 7,500 SQUARE FEET. BUT FOR THIS ONE, I WANT YOU GUYS TO ASSUME THAT THE TOPOGRAPHICAL DEVIATIONS ARE, ARE FAIRLY NOMINAL. THERE'S ONLY TWO OR THREE LINES THERE ANYWAY. AND SO WE'D LOOK AT IT AND WE'D SAY, "WELL, THIS IS NOT A RECTANGLE. IT'S KIND OF THIS WEIRD ODD TRIANGLE SHAPE." UM, AND SO WHEREAS IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE IN AREA BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THAT ZONING CLASS. IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE BECAUSE THE, THE TOPOGRAPHICAL DEVIATIONS ARE NOMINAL. IT IS RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE. AND THEN THIS THIRD EXAMPLE IS, UM, A LOT WHERE WE'RE GONNA ASSUME THAT IT'S ZONED R75A, SO 7500 SQUARE FEET, BUT THE LOT IS 6,738 SQUARE FEET. AND WE'RE ALSO GONNA ASSUME THAT THERE ARE, THE TOPOGRAPHICAL DEVIATIONS ARE, ARE NOMINAL. AND SO IN LOOKING AT THAT, YOU'RE GONNA SAY, "WELL, IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE. IT'S NOT RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME SHAPE AS THE LOTS AROUND IT. BUT IT IS RESTRICTIVE IN AREA BECAUSE WE CAN SEE THAT, UH, 6,738 FEET IS SMALLER THAN 7,500 SQUARE FEET." YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GET INTO THESE THINGS, AND I KNOW PLATTING IS NOT OUR JURISDICTION, BUT SOMETIMES YOU SCRATCH YOUR HEAD AND SAY, "WHY IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION PLANNING SOME OF THESE THINGS THIS WAY?" BUT I JUST SAY THAT RHETORICALLY. Y - THAT'S, THAT'S A FAIR COMMENT. UH, CHAIR, SOME OF THE, UH, EXAMPLES WE USE ARE A LITTLE BIT ABSURD BECAUSE WE WANTED TO REALLY DRIVE THE POINT HOME - NO, I GET YOU. FOR, FOR LESSER PURPOSES. UH, IDEALLY, THOSE SITUATIONS WOULDN'T COME UP AS OFTEN AS YOU THINK BECAUSE, UH, THE, THE FOLKS AT CPC WOULD BE DOING THEIR JOB. WELL, WE'VE HAD MANY A TIME SOMEONE COMES FORWARD AND WANTS TO PUT A GIGANTIC DEVELOPMENT ON A LITTLE SPEC AND WE JUST KINDA, "WHAT?" SO ANYWAY. OKAY. SO IN INSTANCES WHERE, UM, YOU, YOU LOOK AT THE LOT, YOU SAY, "I CAN'T FIND A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE." BUT THERE IS A STRUCTURE THERE. UM, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE WHAT WAS FORMERLY KNOWN AS HOUSE BILL 1415, IT'S CURRENTLY CODIFIED, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A STRUCTURE. AND FIRST YOU NEED TO DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF STRUCTURE IT IS. AND THERE'S THREE TYPES. THERE'S LEGAL, NONCONFORMING, AND ILLEGAL. AND WE USE THOSE TERMS PROBABLY INTERCHANGEABLY WHEN THEY ARE, HAVE A PRETTY STRICT DEFINITION. SO I WANTED TO GO OVER THOSE. AND A LEGAL STRUCTURE IS ONE THAT WAS BUILT AND IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE DALLAS CITY CODE. AND THE EXAMPLE I LIKE TO GIVE IS IF CODE COMPLIANCE IS DRIVING DOWN THE STREET AND THEY GO BY YOUR HOUSE AND IT'S A LEGAL STRUCTURE, THEY'RE JUST GONNA KEEP ON DRIVING. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT HOUSE. IT LOOKS GREAT. BUT LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE. A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE IS A STRUCTURE THAT WAS BUILT AND IS NONCOMPLIANT WITH THE CODE, BUT WAS BUILT PRIOR TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CODE. SO THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD, UM, YOU KNOW, A LAYPERSON WOULD SAY IS GRANDFATHERED IN. WE TEND TO NOT USE THAT TERM. WE LIKE THE TERM NONCONFORMING. AND THE EXAMPLE [05:20:01] FOR A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, CODE COMPLIANCE DRIVES BY THAT NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE. AND THEY MAY SEE IT AND THEY MAY THINK, OH, THAT LOOKS PECULIAR. THEY'RE GONNA STOP, THEY'RE GONNA DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH, AND THEY'RE GONNA REALIZE, OH, THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT BEFORE THE CODE WAS IMPLEMENTED, IT'S NONCONFORMING. AND ERGO, BECAUSE IT'S NONCONFORMING, IT'S NOT RIPE FOR, UH, ANY TYPE OF VIOLATIONS. NOW, IN A LEGAL STRUCTURE, ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'S ONE WHERE THE VI - IT'S IN VIOLATION OF THE DEV- DEVELOPMENT CODE. AND WHEN CODE COMPLIANCE DRIVES BY THAT HOUSE, THEY'RE GONNA GO, "WELL, THIS HOUSE IS OUT OF COMPLIANCE." THEY'RE GONNA DO SOME RESEARCH. THEY'RE GONNA FIGURE OUT THAT IT'S OUT OF COMPLIANCE, THAT IT'S NOT NONCONFORMING, AND THEN IT IS RIPE TO RECEIVE CODE VIOLATIONS. AND THEN THE REASON THAT THAT IS IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, THERE WAS A FORMER HOUSE BILL 1450 THAT GOT CODIFIED IN THE CITY CODE, WHICH IS NOW 51A3102D10B. AND THERE'S FIVE EXCEPTIONS THAT YOU CAN USE, OR SUBSTITUTIONS, RATHER. AND, UH, IT ALLOWS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO USE IN YOUR DISCRETION- DISCRETION. AND IF YOU FIND THESE ELEMENTS HERE MET, THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT ELEMENT TWO, THE HARDSHIP ELEMENT, HAS BEEN MET. AND SO, I WANNA START AT THE BOTTOM BECAUSE WE JUST WENT OVER WHETHER A STRUCTURE IS LEGAL, ILLEGAL, OR NON-CONFORMING. AND THE FIFTH ONE THAT YOU'LL SEE HERE... CAN YOU GUYS SEE MY, UM, LASER POINT? YEAH. IS THAT HELPING? IT'S ON NUMBER FIVE. YES, SIR. SO THAT IF THE MUNICIPALITY CONSIDERS THE STRUCTURE TO BE A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE, THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED THE HARDSHIP. AND SO, WHEN YOU FIRST HAVE A STRUCTURE, THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU WANNA ASK. IS THIS STRUCTURE NON-CONFORMING? 'CAUSE IF IT IS, YOU CAN AUTOMATICALLY CONSIDER IT A HARDSHIP UNDER D10B5. MOVING UP THE LIST, YOU HAVE NUMBER FOUR, WHICH IS THAT COMPLIANCE WOULD RESULT IN AN UNREASONABLE ENCROACHMENT ON AN ADJACENT PROPERTY. IF YOU SEE THAT, THAT COULD BE USED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE HARDSHIP ELEMENT. I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT ONE, AND I AM A BIT LOST AS TO HOW THAT WOULD EVEN COME ABOUT. NUMBER THREE IS THAT COMPLIANCE WOULD RESULT IN THE STRUCTURE NOT BEING IN COMPLIANCE. WE'VE SEEN THAT ONE BEFORE, AND SO IF THAT COMES UP, YOU COULD, UM, CONSIDER THAT TO BE THE HARDSHIP. THE SECOND ONE, WHICH YOU DON'T SEE THAT OFTEN, IS THAT COMPLIANCE WOULD RESULT IN THE LOSS OF AT LEAST 25% OF THE AREA OF THE LOT. AND THE REASON I THINK YOU DON'T SEE THIS ONE VERY OFTEN IS BECAUSE IT'S DEALING WITH AREA. SO IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A RESTRICTIVE AREA, IT'S... THE LOT IS ALREADY GONNA BE, UM, CONSIDERED A HARDSHIP BECAUSE IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN AREA. AND SO THAT'S, I THINK, FROM A PRACTICAL REASON WHY YOU DON'T SEE THAT ONE UTILIZED A LOT. THE ONE YOU DO SEE UTILIZED FAIRLY FREQUENTLY IS THAT THE FINANCIAL COST OF COMPLIANCE IS GREATER THAN 50% OF THE APPRAISED VALUE FROM THE RECENT YEAR'S TAX ROLLS. AND SO WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE HERE OF CASE STUDY THAT WE DID, AND IT IS GOT, UM, SOME NUMBERS. SO THE IMPROVEMENT, WHICH IS THE VALUE OF THE STRUCTURE, IS 2.49 MILLION, AND THE VALUE OF THE LAND IS $400,000, AND THE MARKET VALUE OF THE TOTAL PROPERTY IS AROUND $2.9 MILLION. AND SO 50% OF THE 2.49, WHICH IS THE VALUE OF THE STRUCTURE, WOULD BE AROUND 1.24 MILLION. AND WE HAVE A BID HERE FROM BIG D DEMOLITIONS, AND IT'S FOR 274,000, WHICH IS LESS THAN 50% OF THE VALUE OF THE HOME. ERGO, IN THIS EXAMPLE, YOU COULD NOT USE THIS AS, UM, TO SAY THAT IT'S A HARDSHIP. MOVING ON, WE HAVE A CASE, CASE STUDY B, WHICH IS FOR THE SAME PROPERTY, THE SAME, UH, NUMERICAL VALUES. HOWEVER, THE, UH, BIG D DEMOLITION IS ALSO DOING CONSTRUCTION. AND SO THEY'RE DOING DEMO AND CONSTRUCTION, AND THAT BID IS FOR 100, 1.249 MILLION, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY MORE THAN HALF OF THE 2.49 MILLION, WHICH MEANS IT'S GREATER THAN 50%. AND SINCE IT'S GREATER THAN 50%, YOU CAN UTILIZE THIS AS A, UH, A HARDSHIP. UH, MR. SLADE, YOU HAD MENTIONED, UH, THE BURDEN. SO AGAIN, LIKE, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THE BURDEN IS ON THE APPLICANT TO FURNISH EVIDENCE THAT, UH, COST OF COMPLIANCE IS GREATER THAN 50%. THAT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR, FOR, UH, D10B1. HOWEVER, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IT'S FOR ALL THE OTHER... ANYTHING THAT'S COME BEFORE THE, THE BOARD IS GONNA BE THE SAME THING. MR. SLADE. SO WE CAN'T DO INDEPENDENT RESEARCH. ARE WE ALLOWED TO TAKE NOTICE OF THE ASSESSED VALUE ON THE RENT ROLLS REFLECTED BY DCAT FOR A PROPERTY? OR DOES THAT HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE APPLICANT RAISES FOR US TO HAVE IT BE CONSIDERED FOR PURPOSES OF THIS, UH, CARVE OUT? I MEAN, IF STAFF BRINGS IT UP, IT'S CERTAINLY ON THE RECORD. ANYTHING THAT'S ON THE RECORD'S ON THE RECORD, RIGHT? SO IF STAFF BRINGS IT UP IN THEIR REPORT, THAT CERTAINLY CAN BE DONE. GENERALLY, WHEN IT'S... IDEALLY, WHEN IT'S GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL COME BEFORE THE APPLICANT. THEY WILL REALIZE THIS AND THEY WILL... THE LIGHT BULB WILL GO OFF. THEY WILL KNOW TO BRING THIS INFORMATION, UM, TO THE BOARD OR AT LEAST TO BRING IT TO THE STAFF. SOMETIMES YOU GET SOPHISTICATED PARTIES WHEN YOU HAVE A, UH, YOU KNOW, A MILLION, $2 MILLION HOUSE. YOU HAVE SOPHISTICATED PARTIES THAT ARE HIGH-END PEOPLE. UM, OTHER TIMES, NOT SO MUCH. AND SO [05:25:01] YOU CAN USE YOUR DISCRETION IN DETERMINING WHAT KIND OF EVIDENCE IS NECESSARY, RIGHT? SO IT'S IN THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARD TO DETERMINE, UH, THE VERACITY OF THAT EVIDENCE, RIGHT? YOU MIGHT SAY THAT, UH, JUST THEIR MERE TESTIMONY IS ENOUGH, UM, OR YOU MIGHT SAY, "NO, WE NEED SOME FURTHER SUBSTANTIATION. WE NEED SOME, UM, BIDS FROM CONTRACTORS OR AN ASSESSMENT FROM AN ARCHITECT OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE." UM, SO... OKAY. DID YOU PASS BY SLIDE 137 AND 138 ON SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP, OR IS THAT COMING? IT'S COMING UP. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, SO HERE'S ANOTHER SLIDE THAT I ADDED IN THERE, JUST SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THE LANGUAGE FOR SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP AS I - YOU JUST THREW ME FOR A LOOP HERE. YEP. SORRY. IT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE GOT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, YOU MENTIONED IT THIS MORNING, SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I, I - YOU ATTORNEYS ADDING THINGS TO THE LAST MINUTE. UH, JUST GIVE ME A HARD CHECK. GO AHEAD. CHAIRMAN, WHEN YOU SPOKE TO ME THIS MORNING ABOUT SELF-CREATED ASPECT, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD AN EXTRA SLIDE AND, UH, AND I GET TO SPEAK A LITTLE BIT EXTRA ON THE, THE NEXUS BETWEEN THE HARDSHIP AND THE CREATION. SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT WHETHER A HARDSHIP IS SELF-CREATED, THERE MUST BE A NEXUS BETWEEN THE HARDSHIP AND THE CREATION OF THAT HARDSHIP, RIGHT? THERE MUST BE AN ACTION ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT THAT CREATES THE HARDSHIP, CREATES THE PROBLEM, RIGHT? SO AN APPLICANT WHO - HOLD, HOLD ON THERE, MATT. EXCUSE ME, MR. SAPP. REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID. THERE MUST BE AN ACTION - THERE MUST BE - I'VE NOT HEARD THIS TERM, THIS SENTENCE BEFORE. YEAH. GO AHEAD. THERE MUST BE AN ACTION ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT THAT CREATES THE PROBLEM, THAT CREATES THE HARDSHIP. OKAY. IS THAT IN THE CODE OR IS THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE INTERPRETATION? THAT'S NOT IN THE CODE. THAT IS THE, JUST INTERPRETATION. THE, THERE MUST BE AN ACTION BY THE PROPERTY OWNER. GO... THE APPLICANT. OKAY. GO AHEAD AND FINISH THAT. I'M DIGESTING. UH, THERE MUST BE AN A- ACTION ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT THAT CREATES THE PROBLEM. SO AN... AND I WANNA DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN HAVING NOTICE OF A PROBLEM AND CREATING THE PROBLEM. OKAY. SO YOU MAY BUY A HOUSE OR A STRUCTURE OR A PROPERTY AND IT HAS A HARDSHIP ON IT, BUT YOU DIDN'T CREATE THAT PROBLEM. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE ALL DIGESTING THIS. ALL RIGHT. I'VE GOT MR. HOPKOVITZ, THEN MS. LAMB. UM - MR. HOPKOVITZ. WHY DIDN'T YOU CREATE THE HARDSHIP BY PURCHASING THE PROPERTY? THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING FOR. I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT, MR. HOPKOVITZ? ISN'T, ISN'T PURCHASING THE PROPERTY AN ACTION THAT THEN CREATES THE HARDSHIP? I WOULD, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU THAT PURCHASING THE PROPERTY IS AN ACTION. I WOULD NOT AGREE THAT IT PURCHASED... THAT IT CONSTITUTES THE HARDSHIP. AND THE DISTINCTION IS THAT THE HARDSHIP LIES IN THE PROPERTY. SO REMEMBER WE WENT OVER THE DESCRIPTION OF IT. THE HARDSHIP IS, MUST BE EVIDENCED BY A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE. SO THAT IS, LIKE I SAID, THE 3D SHAPE OF THE LOT. IT RUNS WITH THE PROPERTY. SO IF YOU OWN A PROPERTY, MR. HOPKOVITZ, AND IT HAS A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR A SLOPE, YOU DIDN'T CREATE THAT. LET'S SAY THERE'S JUST A MOUNTAIN IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR PROPERTY AND YOU WANNA SELL THAT PROPERTY AND I WANNA BUY THAT PROPERTY. AND THEN I SAY, "MAN, I CAN'T BUILD HERE BECAUSE THERE'S A MOUNTAIN ON THE PROPERTY." AND YOU SAY, "WELL, YOU KNEW ABOUT THE MOUNTAIN. ABSOLUTELY. I ABSOLUTELY KNEW ABOUT THE MOUNTAIN. I HAD NOTICE OF THE HARDSHIP, BUT I DIDN'T CREATE THE HARDSHIP." AND SO WHEN I COME TO BOARD - SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE DIFFERENTIATING NOTICE AND CREATION OR NOTICE AND ACTION. I'M STUCK ON WHAT YOU SAID, ACTION BY THE APPLICANT. WELL, THAT'S THE SELF-CREATED PART. IT'S JUST ANOTHER, IT'S ANOTHER SYNONYM FOR THAT PHRASE. I, I GET YOU. OKAY. DID, DID HE ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ENOUGH? OTHERWISE, I'LL GO TO MS. LAMB. THE, HE ANSWERED THE QUESTION, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SAT HERE IN HEARINGS WHERE WE'VE HEARD PEOPLE CLAIM THEY HAVE A HARDSHIP AND WE'VE SAID, "WELL, YOU KNEW THAT THE PROPERTY WAS THAT WAY WHEN YOU ACQUIRED IT." I MEAN, I THINK WE, I THINK WE'VE PROBABLY CONSIDERED, IN SOME RESPECTS, IN SOME ASPECTS SOMETIMES, THAT THAT WAS CREATING THE HARDSHIP BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE BUYING. IN INSTANCES WHERE IT'S DEALING WITH A STRUCTURE, IT MAY VERY WELL BE CREATING A HARDSHIP WHEN YOU BUILD THE HARDSHIP, RIGHT? LIKE, IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE, THE PREEXISTING STRUCTURE, AND YOU SAY, "I WANNA EXPAND IT," AND YOU, LET'S SAY YOU DON'T GO TO THE, YOU DON'T GET PERMITS, YOU DON'T CONSULT AN ARCHITECT, YOU DON'T CONSULT A, A LICENSED, UH, BUILDER, YOU JUST BUILD, RIGHT? I THINK THE BOARD WOULD BE CORRECT TO SAY, "YOU GUYS CREATED THIS HARDSHIP. IT IS... YOUR... THE PROBLEM IS SELF-CREATED." UM, IN THE INSTANCE WHERE IT RUNS WITH THE LAND, THE LOT IS OF A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE. BEFORE I EVEN GET THERE, BEFORE THE APPLICANT GETS THERE, BEFORE THEY BUY THE PROPERTY, THE HARDSHIP ALREADY EXISTED. AND IF YOU CREATED A SITUATION WHERE YOU SAID, "YOU CAN'T DO THAT, YOU CAN'T COME TO US BECAUSE YOU KNEW IT," THEN THAT PROPERTY BECOMES UNDEVELOPABLE. NO, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA ARGUE WITH YOU ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE LET'S SAY I BUY A, A, A LOT THAT IS RESTRICTIVE. AND THEN I HAVE [05:30:01] A ARCHITECT DESIGN A HOUSE FOR ME THAT DOESN'T REALLY FIT VERY EASILY ON THE LOT WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS OF OTHER, UH, REQUIREMENTS OF, OF THE SIZE OF THE HOME AND THAT KIND OF THING. UM, BUT THEY, THEY, YOU KNOW, WE, I THINK WE DEALT WITH THIS VERY RECENTLY. YOU CAN BUILD A HOME, YOU JUST CAN'T BUILD THE HOME THAT YOU'RE SHOWING AS PLANS FOR. BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY BUILD A HOME ON THAT LOT. SO I, I'M, I JUST DON'T, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THAT. WELL, IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR SCENARIO, MR. HOPOVITZ, UM, YOU, YOU CAN BUILD A HOME. WHEN THEY COME TO REQUEST A VARIANCE, THEY'RE REQUESTING A SPECIFIC THING, A FRONT YARD. SO IN AN EXAMPLE THAT I HAVE COMING UP, THERE'S A POND THAT'S GONNA BE IN THE WAY, RIGHT? AND THEY'RE SAYING LIKE, "I CAN'T BUILD AT THE BACK OF THE YARD BECAUSE THERE'S A POND THERE OR THERE'S A HILL THERE. IT'S MAKING MY LOT RESTRICTIVE IN AREA, RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE, RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE. AND SO I NEED TO BE CLOSER TO THE FRONT STREET. AND SO WE NEED A FRONT YARD VARIANCE. OR MAYBE I CAN'T BE SO CLOSE TO THE EAST SIDE, I NEED TO BE CLOSER TO THE WEST SIDE. SO THAT'S A SIDE YARD VARIANCE. OR I NEED TO BE CLOSER TO THE BACK OF THAT LOT." SO THAT'S A REAR YARD VARIANCE. UM, AND SO THEY'RE REQUESTING A SPECIFIC TYPE OF VARIANCE. SO IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T... I, I THINK THAT GOES TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT NOT THAT THEY CAN'T BUILD, BUT THEY CAN'T BUILD A HOUSE THAT THEY WANT. LET HIM KEEP GOING AND THEN IF YOU STILL HAVE A QUESTION YOU COME BACK. MS. LAM HAS A QUESTION. SO WE'VE HAD TWO CASES, UH, LATELY AND, UM, THEY ARE REMINISCENT VIR- VIRTUALLY THE SAME. UM, AND IT PERTAINS TO SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP. IT'S WHERE A PROPERTY OWNER OBTAINS A SURVEY AND THEN DEVELOPS AND SUBMITS PLANS BASED ON THE SURVEY. AND THEN AFTER THEY DEVELOP THE PROPERTY AND THEY'RE BUILDING RIGHTFULLY WITHIN THE, THE SURVEY, ONCE THEY DELIVER THE PROPERTY AND TRY TO GET A FINAL, UH, APPROVALS, IT COMES OUT THAT THE SURVEY, SURVEY WAS INCORRECT. SO THEREFORE THEY BUILT EITHER ON A SIDE YARD SETBACK, BUT A FRONT YARD SETBACK OR A FRONT YARD SETBACK. NOW, THE QUESTION IS, IS THAT SELF-CREATED BECAUSE THEY HAD A SURVEY, IT WAS APPROVED BASED ON THE SURVEY THAT THEY BELIEVE TO BE CORRECT. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE DEEM BECAUSE THEY HIRED THAT SURVEYOR THEN IT'S SELF-CREATED BECAUSE THEN THE PROBLEM LIES WITHIN THE SURVEY? OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD SIT THERE AND SAY THAT THESE ARE, JUST BECAUSE THEY HIRED THE SURVEYOR, THAT ISN'T A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP BECAUSE IT'S A THIRD PARTY PROVIDING AN ASSESSMENT OF THE LAND AND THEY BUILT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE CORRECT SURVEY? WE'VE HAD TWO CASES LIKE THIS WHERE THE SURVEY COMPANIES HAVE COME IN AND ASKED FOR UH, VARIANCES ON EITHER FRONT YARD OR SIDE YARD SETBACK BASED ON AN INCORRECT SURVEY. YEAH, THAT'S WHY YOU GUYS GET PAID THE BIG BUCKS, RIGHT? THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER. AND SO ESSENTIALLY YOU HAVE, UH, AN APPLICANT COMING BEFORE THE BOARD AND SAYING, "HEY, UM, WE MADE A MISTAKE. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. WE WANT A VARIANCE, IT'S NOT OUR FAULT." AND THEN YOU GUYS GET TO WADE THROUGH THE EVIDENCE. WELL, YOU GOTTA BE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THAT'S THE HOMEOWNER SAYING IT WAS MY CONTRACTOR. RIGHT. SO - AND OH NO, WE MANY A TIMES SAY, NO, NO, THAT'S YOU. IS A THIRD PARTY - I'LL GET YOU NEXT, MR. QUINN. IS A THIRD PARTY THAT, THAT THE LAND OWNER, PROPERTY OWNER HIRES, IS THAT CON- CONSIDERED SOMEBODY THAT IS TIED TO THE APPLICANT BECAUSE THEY HIRED THEM OR CAN WE SEPARATE THOSE TWO? IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE PANEL DECIDES. BUT LE- LEGALLY THEN, I MEAN - I, I, ARE WE HEARING A LEGAL DEFINITION DOWN THERE, UH, ATTORNEYS? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GETTING AGAINST THE LEGAL. OKAY, YOU'RE ON THE LIST. THANK YOU, MR. CAMPBELL. UM, YOU WANT US TO KEEP, D- DID YOU UNDERSTAND HER QUESTION? WELL, I, I THINK SO. MS. LAMB, I THINK THE ANSWER WOULD BE THAT, UH, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THEY ARE YOUR AGENT, THE APPLICANT'S AGENT. YES, THAT'S WHAT I - HOWEVER, AS THE CHAIRMAN NOTED, IT'S STILL IN THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARD. YOU GUYS NEED TO VET OUT, QUESTION THE APPLICANT AND TO GET THE BEST THING AND THEN WEIGH THAT EVIDENCE TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY. CAN WE, WHEN SELF-CREATED, I- IS THERE A COMPONENT OF, UM, LIKE THE IDEA THAT THEY WERE DOING IT WITH GOOD INTENTION RATHER THAN DOING IT... SELF-CREATED TO ME SEEMS LIKE IT'S NEGLIGENT. LIKE THEY BROUGHT SOMETHING ONTO THEMSELVES. IF THEY DID IT WITH GOOD INTENTION, BUT THERE WAS AN ERROR ALONG THE WAY - I THINK THAT'S AN ELEMENT THAT YOU CAN WEIGH, PUT INTO YOUR, UH, INTO YOUR SCALES OF JUSTICE AND TRY TO HELP YOU DETERMINE, UM, HOW SELF-CREATED THE PROBLEM IS. THERE'S CERTAINLY INSTANCES WHERE PEOPLE ACT TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY, AND THERE'S CERTAINLY OTHER INSTANCES WHERE IT'S EVIDENT THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE. AND SO THAT'S YOUR JOB TO, UH, PARSE THAT OUT AND. I'VE GOT MR. QUINT AND THEN MR. CAMPBELL. MR. QUINN. YEAH, IN THIS CASE, IT WAS, AS, AS MS. LAMB WAS SUGGESTING - NOT TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE, BUT IN A CASE LIKE THAT. IN A GENERAL CASE, IT WAS THE, THE SURVEYOR THAT WAS IN FRONT OF US, NOT THE, THE BUILDING OWNER WAS, OR THE, THE HOMEOWNER WAS ALSO THERE, BUT IT WAS THE, THE SURVEYOR COMPANY THAT WAS COMING IN FOR THE VARIANCE. AND THEIR CONCERN WAS, "WELL, IF WE [05:35:01] DON'T GET THE VARIANCE, WE'RE TEARING, THE HOUSE IS GONNA GET TORN DOWN AND IT HAS TO GET REBUILT." MM. AND WE WERE JUST GOING, "OKAY, THAT, THAT'S A BIG NUMBER AND A BIG ISSUE OVER A COUPLE OF FEET IN, IN A SURVEY." AND - YEAH, THAT'S A, THAT'S A TOUGH ONE. UM, IT'S REALLY UP, UH, THAT'S UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARD. AND SO, UM - AND, AND TO HOLD THAT THOUGH RIGHT THERE. AND IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES, WE'RE GONNA LEARN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ABUSE OF DISCRETION OR DISCRETION OF THE BOARD AS VIEWED BY THE FIFTH COURT OF APPEALS ON CASES THAT WE'VE HAD. AND IT GOES BACK TO HOW THE BOARD EXERCISES DISCRETION. OKAY. DID YOU... I DIDN'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT I, I... ANYTHING ELSE, MR. QUINT? MR. CAMPBELL? TO PUT A FINER POINT ON THIS, THERE IS NO LANGUAGE IN THE ORDINANCE THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION LIKE A MENS REA, WHICH MEANS INTENTIONALITY OR GOOD OR BAD FAITH INTENTIONS OF THE APPLICANT, CORRECT? THERE'S NOTHING THAT SPECIFIC. SO IT'S WITHIN THE BOARD'S DISCRETION AS TO WHETHER WE WANT TO INCLUDE THAT IN OUR OWN INTERNAL ANALYSIS, CORRECT? I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. THANK YOU. AND IT'S A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. ACCORDING TO THE DEVELOPMENT CODE, NO CASE SETS A PRECEDENT. SO THAT WAS LAWYER TALK THERE BETWEEN THOSE TWO GUYS. UM, SO IT'S A CASE BY CASE BASIS. MR. FINNEY. SO, UM, FORGIVE ME IF YOU'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THE TERM SELF-CREATED HAS ACTUALLY BEEN DEFINED IN ANY OF THIS CONVERSATION. UM, DOES, IS THAT TERM DEFINED OBJECTIVELY? 'CAUSE IT, IT JUST FEELS LIKE A VERY NEBULOUS WORD THAT CAUSES US TO KIND OF GO IN CIRCLES. YEAH. SO THE LANGUAGE FROM THE CODE, WHICH IS WHAT'S UP ON THE, UH, THE SCREEN, THAT'S THE LANGUAGE THAT IS FORMALLY PUT FORWARD. UM, THE LANGUAGE THAT I GAVE, CHAIRMAN, AND, AND TO THE BOARD EARLIER WAS THAT THERE MUST BE AN ACTION ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT THAT CREATES THE PROBLEM. THAT'S JUST LANGUAGE THAT I UTILIZE TO SORT OF, UM, AS A SYNONYM FOR, SYNONYM FOR SELF-CREATED. UM, I DON'T HAVE A FORMAL LEGAL DEFINITION FOR THAT. THAT'S JUST SORT OF, UM - I, I COULD BUY INTO THAT, BUT IT'S EACH FIVE MEMBER PANEL THAT DECIDES WHETHER THEY USE THAT INTERPRETATION. SO BACK TO MR. HOPKOVITZ'S QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE INITIAL PURCHASE OF A PROPERTY COULD BE CONSIDERED A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP, UH, LET'S JUST SAY A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION WHERE, UM, AN APPLICANT, UH, UM, LET'S JUST SAY A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION WHERE AN APPLICANT PURCHASES A PROPERTY WHERE THE BUILDING HEIGHT IS RESTRICTED TO 30 FEET, BUT THEY WANT TO BUILD IT UP TO 36 FEET, AND THEY DO THAT AND WAIT FOR THE CITY TO CATCH THEM IN THE PROCESS, AND THEN THEY COME TO THE, THIS BOARD TO SEEK A, UH, A VARIANCE SO THEY CAN KEEP THE 36-FOOT HEIGHT. UM, YOU KNOW, IS THAT A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP? AND IS IT THE PURCHASING OF THE PROPERTY - SO THAT'S IN THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARD. SO, AND, AND LET ME, UH, ALLOW ME TO SORT OF ELABORATE AND O- OPINE ON THE EXAMPLE THAT YOU'RE GIVING. SO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SOMEBODY WHO, UH, IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE SAYING THEY ACTED IN BAD FAITH. THEY, THEY DIDN'T WAIT. THEY WENT AHEAD AND DID IT THEMSELVES. YEAH. OKAY? SO YOU GUYS COULD LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, "WE THINK THAT YOU ARE CREATING THE PROBLEM. THAT IS SELF-CREATED." BUT YOU MIGHT LOOK AT IT AND SAY, "WELL, THEY TRIED. THEY, THEY GOT AN ARCHITECT, THE ARCHITECT TOLD THEM. THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, WHATEVER THEIR TESTIMONY IS, WHATEVER THEIR EVIDENCE THAT THEY PRODUCE IS ADEQUATE ENOUGH FOR YOU. BUT YOU GUYS ARE THE DECIDER ON THAT." I ALSO WANNA DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHEN I TALKED ABOUT A D10B SITUATION, WHICH IS WHEN THERE'S A STRUCTURE VERSUS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY. SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY, IT'S A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE THAT IS CONFINED TO THE PROPERTY. THAT, THAT'S WHY PURCHASING A PROPERTY DOES NOT EQUAL CREATING THE HARDSHIP, BECAUSE THE HARDSHIP WAS ALREADY THERE. IT WAS TIED TO THE PROPERTY. IT WAS TIED TO THE PRO - THE NATURE OF THE PROPERTY BEING TOO NARROW ON A HILL, IN A LAKE, TOO WIDE, A FUNNY SHAPE. WHEN IT'S A STRUCTURE, IT'S THE, THE SELF-CREATED ASPECT BECOMES MUCH MORE RELEVANT. AND THE VERY LAST SLIDE OF MY PRESENTATION IS GONNA BE SORT OF A COMPARE AND CONTRAST BETWEEN THE STANDARDS BETWEEN THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION STANDARD AND THE STANDARD FOR A, UH, A VARIANCE. AND IT REALLY GETS INTO WHY THAT MATTERS, BECAUSE THE WHY QUESTION, WHICH WE WANNA ASK, WE ALWAYS WANNA ASK WHY, WHY DID YOU DO THAT, RIGHT? W - S - PARTICULARLY WHEN SOMEBODY COMES TO, FOR THE BOARD AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS RATHER THAN PERMISSION, WE WANNA SAY, WHY DID YOU DO THAT? LIKE, IT MAKES US MAD. I MEAN, IT'S FRUSTRATING, RIGHT? AND SO WE WOULD SAY IT'S NOT RELEVANT IN A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. IN A VARIANCE, IT'S ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT BECAUSE IT GOES TO THE SELF-CREATED ASPECT. AND IT'S PARTICULARLY RELEVANT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A D10, D10B SITUATION BECAUSE [05:40:01] THAT IS DEALING WITH A STRUCTURE RATHER THAN A LOT THAT HAS OF A RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE TIED TO THE LOT. SO MR. SAPP, GO AHEAD AND DO YOUR POND ANALOG - AND, UH, EXAMPLES. OKAY. YEAH. UH, REAL QUICK, JUST WITH THE SELF-CREATED ASPECT, THERE'S THE LANGUAGE HERE, YOU'LL ALSO NOTICE THAT, UM, IT CANNOT BE A PERSONAL HARDSHIP. AND THE EXAMPLE I GET FOR THAT IS YOU CAN'T... SO YOU COULDN'T REQUEST SAY LIKE, "I, I NEED A FRONT YARD VARIANCE. I NEED TO MOVE MY HOUSE CLOSER TO THE FRONT OF THE YARD BECAUSE I DON'T WANNA BE NEAR THE BACK OF THE YARD BECAUSE I'M ALLERGIC TO MY NEIGHBOR'S ROSES," RIGHT? LIKE THAT'D BE A PERSONAL HARDSHIP. THAT'S NOT TIED TO THE RESTRICTIVE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE. UH, OR LASTLY, FINANCIAL REASONS ONLY. AND SO THAT'S, UH, YOU RARELY HEAR THIS ONE BECAUSE, UH, APPLICANT WOULD BE, HAVE TO BE, UM, OFF THEIR ROCKER TO COME HERE AND SAY, "I'M ONLY DOING THIS FOR THE MONEY BECAUSE IT'S LITERALLY JUST, I'M DOING IT FOR THE MONEY AND LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE. I WANNA MAKE THE HOUSE BIGGER. I LIKE WHATEVER IT COULD BE. I HAVE A AUNT THAT'S GONNA LIVE WITH ME." SO THEN MOVING ON, LOOKING AT THESE EXAMPLES, ASSUME LARRY PURCHASES LAND AND IT HAS AN EXISTING NATURAL POND ON IT, RIGHT? AND THEN LARRY REQUESTS A VARIANCE TO THE FRONT YARD SETBACK IN ORDER TO BUILD CLOSER TO THE FRONT YARD LINE. IS THIS HARDSHIP SELF-CREATED? HOLD THAT THOUGHT. NOW, MR. HOPKOVICH WOULD SAY HE SAW THE POND. IT WAS THERE BEFORE HE PURCHASED IT. I'M NOT CALLING HIM OUT. I'M SAYING - I, I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK HE WAS - OKAY. I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY SAY THAT OR BE, CERTAINLY BE CURIOUS. AND THE ANSWER WOULD BE THAT, UM, IT'S NOT SELF-CREATED, RIGHT? HE DIDN'T CREATE THE POND. HE DIDN'T CREATE THE... SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS PARTICULAR LOT, I THINK YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN AREA SHAPE AND SLOPE, RIGHT? THE, THE, THE FACT THAT THE POND IS THERE RESTRICTS THE AREA BECAUSE THERE'S LESS AREA TO BUILD ON. IT RESTRICTS THE SHAPE BECAUSE NOW THE SHAPE THAT YOU CAN BUILD ON IS LESSENED. AND IT RESTRICTS THE SLOPE BECAUSE, UM, WELL, WATER GOES TO ITS LOWEST POINT SO THAT IF THERE'S A POND, THAT'S INDICATIVE THAT THERE'S A CHANGE IN ELEVATION, SO IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN ALL THREE. SO WHAT, SO WHAT YOU'RE SPOUSING IS THE ACTION OF A PROPERTY OWNER BUYING SOMETHING PREEXISTING IS NOT SELF, IT'S NOT A SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP. PRECISELY. BUT THE ACTION OF CHANGING THE PROPERTY IS, IS SELF-CREATED. PERFECT. YEAH. I'M, I'M, WHAT I'M D- DEDUCING FROM THIS, IT'S ACTION BY THE APPLICANT. BUT AGAIN, IT'S UP TO EACH PANEL HOW THEY INTERPRET THE FACTS THAT ARE PRESENTED TO THEM. OKAY. GO AHEAD. AND THEN THIS, LOOKING AT THE SAME LOT, ASSUME THAT ANOTHER GUY, PAUL, POND BUILDER, RIGHT, HE PURCHASES LAND, HE BUILDS THE POND HIMSELF. SO PAUL THEN MAKES THE SAME REQUEST THAT LARRY MADE. H SAYS, "I WANNA MOVE MY HOUSE TO THE FRONT FOR A VARIANCE TO THE FRONT YARD SETBACK." AND IS IT SELF-CREATED IN THIS SCENARIO? AND THE ANSWER WOULD BE, OF COURSE, YES, BECAUSE HE TOOK AN ACTION, HE CREATED THE POND. UM, ANOTHER EXAMPLE, AND THIS IS THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE. IT'S ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT IN VENESCO, WHICH IS WHAT I CALL, LIKE, THE SUBDIVISION EXAMPLE, RIGHT? AND SO, UM, ASSUME DARREN, WHO'S A DEVELOPER, PURCHASED A 7,500 SQUARE FOOT LOT, AND HE SUBDIVIDES IT. AND THE NORTHERN LOT IS 2,500 SQUARE FEET, AND THE SOUTHERN LOT IS 5,000 SQUARE FEET. AND DARREN WANTS TO GET A VARIANCE OF THE FRONT YARD SETBACK. AND HE SAYS, "IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN AREA. IT'S ONLY 5,000 SQUARE FEET AND IT ZONE 7,500 SQUARE FEET. SO IS THE HARDSHIP SELF-CREATED?" ANSWER WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY, RIGHT? 'CAUSE DARREN TOOK THE ACTION, HE SUBDIVIDED IT. NOW, SAY, DOWN THE ROAD, ANOTHER GUY COMES IN, FRANK, HE WANTS TO BUY THIS LOT. IT'S 5,000 SQUARE FEET. HE WANTS TO EXTEND THE HOUSE. SO HE COMES TO THE BOARD AND SAYS, "I BOUGHT THIS LOT. IT'S 5,000 SQUARE FEET. IT'S OUR 75A. IS IT A HARDSHIP? IS THE..." EXCUSE ME. THERE'S CLEARLY A HARDSHIP BECAUSE IT'S RESTRICTIVE AN AREA. HE DIDN'T CREATE IT THOUGH. I WOULD SAY HE HAD NOTICE OF THE HARD, OF THE HARDSHIP, BUT HE DIDN'T CREATE THE HARDSHIP. SO THE ACTION OF PURCHASING A SMALLER LOT IN A LARGER DISTRICT IS NOT SELF-CREATED HARDSHIP? THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PURCHASE A HARDSHIP. OKAY. THERE, THERE IS ANOTHER ONE. IT'S DIFFICULT TO PURCHASE HARDSHIP. I'M NOT TRYING TO BE SIMPLISTIC. I'VE JUST NEVER, IN MY X NUMBER OF YEARS, UNDERSTOOD THIS THIRD COMPONENT. OKAY. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PURCHASE A HARDSHIP. IT'S WHAT YOU JUST SAID. OKAY? MR. HAPKOVITZ? SO JUST TO SQUARE THE, SQUARE IT THERE, DARREN BUYS IT, HE SUBDIVIDES IT. DARREN'S BROTHER BUYS THE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT NOW AND SAYS, "I WANNA BUILD ON IT NOW IT'S RESTRICTIVE." YOU - YEAH, THAT, THAT'S A FRUSTRATING SCENARIO. UM, BUT I THINK THE ANSWER WOULD BE THAT, LIKE, DARREN'S BROTHER, UM, HE CERTAINLY HAD NOTICE, RIGHT? BUT HE DIDN'T CREATE THAT PROBLEM, SO IT WOULD BE, UH, IT WOULD NOT BE UPDATED. I GUESS, I GUESS WHAT I'M STRUGGLING IS, IS IT'S ALMO - [05:45:01] IT'S BEEN BEATEN INTO MY HEAD LIKE WITH A HAMMER THAT WE MAKE A DECISION ON THE LAND. WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION ON WHO OWNS IT TODAY. UH, UH, I MEAN, THAT'S BEEN LIKE A MANTRA ON THIS BOARD AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE. RIGHT. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. AND I WOULD SAY THAT THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE. AND THE DARREN'S BROTHER, HE IS PURCHASING THE LAND. THE LAND HAS THE HARDSHIP BECAUSE IT IS RESTRICTIVE IN AREA. IT'S 5,000 SQUARE FEET AND 7,500 SQUARE FOOT, UH, ZONED, UM, CLASSIFICATION. AND, UM, JUST BEFORE ANYBODY HAS ANY NIGHTMARES, THIS IS, THIS SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OF THIS LOT BEING SUBDIVIDED IN THIS MANNER, EXTREMELY UNLIKELY THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN BECAUSE, UH, THE WAY PLATTING WORKS. WE'RE JUST USING IT FOR, FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES. I DON'T KNOW. I'VE SEEN SOME CRAZY PLATTED LOTS. BUT OKAY. ALL RIGHT. KEEP GOING. SO LASTLY, WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT WHETHER IT'S CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST. AND PUBLIC INTEREST IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE STANDARD FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. WE'LL DISCUSS IN A LITTLE BIT, BUT I REALLY WANNA HIT HOME OF, LIKE, WHO DECIDES WHAT THE PUBLIC INTEREST IS. I'LL GIVE YOU A HINT. IT'S NOT THE PUBLIC. IT'S YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS. SO, UH, YOU CERTAINLY CAN LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC. YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC, RIGHT? WHEN THEY, PEOPLE COME, THEY GIVE THEIR TESTIMONY, YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM, YOU SHOULD WEIGH IT, PUT IT IN YOUR SCALES OF JUSTICE, AND THEN ULTIMATELY, YOU GET TO DECIDE. THE EXAMPLE I WOULD GIVE TO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, MY, UH, MY DAUGHTER RECENTLY ADVOCATED FOR, UH, EATING HER HALLOWEEN CANDY FOR BREAKFAST, RIGHT? SHE THOUGH IT WAS A GREAT IDEA, AND I SAID, "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. WE'RE GONNA STICK WITH OATMEAL, RIGHT?" BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH SHE WANTED THAT, I HAD, I LISTENED TO HER, I LISTENED TO HER ARGUMENT, BUT SAID, "BUT THAT'S NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT. I'M THE DECIDER THE SAME WAY THAT YOU GUYS ARE THE DECIDER." SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CON - NOT CONTRARY TO PUBLIC INTEREST AND NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS? GREAT QUESTION. SO, UH, FIRSTLY, PUBLIC INTEREST IS GREATER THAN NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IS, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? IT'S GENERALLY IN THAT ZONING CLASS. UH, PUBLIC INTEREST IS THE PUBLIC, SO IT'S PRETTY MUCH ANYONE THAT WANTS TO SHOW UP. YES, SIR. WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE GOT WHAT YOU JUST SAID. OKAY. I'M JUST, I'M, AS YOU, AS YOU'RE OPINING, I'M WANTING TO MAKE SURE WE ABSORB. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. SO - UH, UH, THE BOARD SECRETARY HAS, UM, UH, DESSERT IN THE BACK TOO, SO IF ANYONE NEEDS A SUGAR FIX FOR THE LAST SEC - SIX HOURS WE'VE GOT. JUST KIDDING. COME ON NOW. KEEP GOING. THANK YOU. UM, SO WHILE WE'RE LOOKING AT PUBLIC INTEREST, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THE COURT MIGHT LOOK AT TO DETERMINE WHAT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, BUT WE NARROWED IT DOWN TO THREE PILLARS. IT'S A GREAT ACRONYM, SAM, WHICH STANDS FOR SAFETY, AESTHETICS, AND MONETARY VALUE. SO ESSENTIALLY, DOES THE, THE VARIANT CREATE OR MITIGATE SAFETY ISSUES? DO THE ATHETICS, AESTHETICS FIT, COMPORT AND FIT IN WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND DOES THE VARIANCE INCREASE OR DECREASE THE PROPERTY VALUE? MOVING ON TO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS. THERE'S OVER 50 SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, UM, THAT ARE IN THE CODE. MOST COMMON ONES THAT YOU GUYS ARE GONNA SEE RE - INVOLVE FENCE STANDARDS. SO FENCE HEIGHT, UH, FENCE OPACITY, FENCE MATERIALS. AND THE COMMON DENOMINATOR FOR MOST OF THESE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS IS THE LEGAL STANDARD IS THAT IT MUST NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. AND SO NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IS RESTRICTED MORE THAN PUBLIC INTEREST. PUBLIC INTEREST IS THE PUBLIC, RIGHT? UM, AND AGAIN, WE USE THE SAME THREE PILLARS OF SAFETY, AESTHETICS, AND MONETARY FOR A GOOD - BUT THE CODE DOES NOT CALL OUT THOSE, DOES IT? NO, THAT'S JUST, UH, WHAT WE - THAT'S JUST YOUR INTERPRETATION. THAT'S JUST OUR ADVICE OF LIKE - OKAY, THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO START, START. AND LIKE, I SAY START BECAUSE IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE GOOD PLACE... IT IS A GOOD PLACE TO FINISH, BUT IT'S NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF WHERE YOU MUST FINISH. THERE MIGHT BE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU COME TO DURING YOUR DISCUSSION OR WITH THE APPLICANT, WITH THE STAFF, OR IN YOUR OWN, UM, IN YOUR OWN MIND THAT ARE, ARE, ARE RELEVANT. AND SO - WELL, A SMART APPLICANT, GIVEN THAT THE BURDEN IS ON THE APPLICANT, WOULD ADDRESS THAT OVER AND OVER IN THEIR PRESENTATION TO SAY, "THIS IS NOT ADVERSE TO, TO, UH, SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS." ABSOLUTELY. AND THEY WOULD PROVE THAT IN ORDER TO MEET THAT CRITERIA. ABSOLUTELY. AND SO THE LAST SLIDE IS COMPARING THE POLICY REASONS BEHIND COMPARING AND CONTRASTING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS VERSUS VARIANCES. AND THERE ARE BASICALLY THREE QUESTIONS THAT COUNSEL IS ASKING, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE ASKING LIKE, "IS IT FAIR TO THE PUBLIC? IS IT FAIR TO THE APPLICANT? AND THEN WHY?" AND IF IT'S FAIR TO THE PUBLIC AND IT'S UNFAIR TO THE APPLICANT, IT'S NOT SELF-CREATED, THEN WE'RE GONNA ALLOW IT. IT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, RIGHT? SO YOU'LL NOTICE THERE'S ONLY ONE ELEMENT FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION WHICH ANSWERS THE IS IT FAIR TO THE PUBLIC QUESTION. AND THAT'S BECAUSE A SPE - WITH A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, UH, COUNSEL [05:50:01] IS IMPLYING THAT IT ISN'T FAIR TO THE APPLICANT AND THAT IT ISN'T SELF-CREATED. SO WE DON'T ASK WHY. THEY'RE SAYING LIKE, "WE DON'T EVEN REALLY CARE WHETHER IT'S FAIR TO THE APPLICANT. WE'RE JUST GONNA ASSUME." AND OFTENTIMES, APPLICANTS MOVE AHEAD, RIGHT? THEY DO THINGS WITHOUT ASKING PERMISSION, AND THEY COME TO THE BOARD SEEKING FORGIVENESS RATHER THAN PERMISSION. AND I MENTIONED THIS EARLIER A- AND HOW FRUSTRATING IT IS. AND SO YOU WANNA ASK WHY? WHY DID YOU DO THAT? PARTICULARLY WHEN IT'S A FENCE SPECIAL EXCEPTION. WHY DID YOU BUILD THIS FENCE? WHY IS, WHY DID YOU BUILD THE FENCE TOO HIGH OR WHY DID YOU PUT UP THE FENCE AT ALL? AND WHEN IT COMES TO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, IT'S JUST IRRELEVANT AND IT'S INAPPROPRIATE, RIGHT? WE JUST... THE ONLY TEST ON A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS WHETHER IT ADVERSELY AFFECTS NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. AND SO IT, IT CAN HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. IT CAN HAVE A NEUTRAL EFFECT ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. IT JUST CAN'T HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT. IT CAN'T ADVERSELY AFFECT THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. WHEN IT COMES TO VARIANCES, THAT WHY QUESTION, AS WE'VE, YOU GUYS ALREADY KIND OF BEAT ME TO IT, YOU, UM, BY ASKING THESE, UM, PARSING OUT THE ELEMENTS. UH, THE WHY ELEMENT, THE WHY QUESTION IS PARTICULARLY RELEVANT WHEN IT COMES TO VARIANCES BECAUSE IT GOES TO SHOW WHETHER THE HARDSHIP WAS SELF-CREATED OR NOT. QUESTIONS FOR MR. SAPP. DR. GLOVER. I WOULD LIKE SOME MORE EDUCATION ON, UH, IRREGULAR LOTS. AND LET ME GIVE EXAMPLES TO ACTUALLY DRAW YOU TOWARDS MY LINE OF THINKING. SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, I BOUGHT A, A 10,000 FEET LOT, WHICH IS RESTRICTIVE. THE BURDEN IS ON ME TO COME TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO LOOK FOR A VARIANCE. NOW, WHERE... AND IT'S BY RIGHT, RIGHT? SO IF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT REFUSES BASED ON MY TESTIMONY TO GRANT ME THAT VARIANCE, THEN WHAT OTHER RELIEFS DO I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BUILD ON THAT LOT? SO I THINK - SINCE YOUR ARGUMENT OR SINCE WHAT YOU'RE SHARING WITH US IS THAT THIS IS NOT SELF, UM, UH, THIS IS NOT SELF-MADE, A SELF-MADE HARDSHIP. UM, SO IT WOULD BE ON THE BURDEN OF THE APPLICANT TO SHOW UP AND ILLUSTRATE THAT THE 10,000 LOT, 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT IS RESTRICTIVE IN AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE. ASSUMING THAT IT'S ZONED IN A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT AREA AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THE LOT IS 10,000 SQUARE FEET, IT WOULD BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO SHOW THAT, RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU COULD SHOW UP WITH A SURVEY AND SAYS, "THIS LOT IS 10,000 SQUARE FEET AND IT'S ZONED 10,000 SQUARE FEET." STAFF, GENERALLY, WHEN THEY DO THEIR STAFF REPORT AND THEY DO YOUR PRESENTATION TO YOU THAT MORNING, IT'LL HAVE IT ON THERE THE LOT'S ZONED THIS AMOUNT AND IT'S THIS MANY SQUARE FEET. AND THAT'S A REAL QUICK SYNOPSIS OF LIKE, AH, IT'S THE RIGHT SIZE, IT'S TOO SMALL, IT'S TOO BIG, AND YOU CAN CROSS THAT AREA OFF THE LIST. THEN YOU CAN LOOK ONTO SHAPE OR SLOPE, AND YOU DO THAT A**L - OR YOU DO THAT ANALYSIS, BUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY THE APPLICANT'S BURDEN. UM, SOME OF THE, THAT IS GONNA BE RELATIVELY SELF-EVIDENT, RIGHT? IF THEY SHOW UP, THE STAFF'S GONNA SHOW YOU THAT THE, IT'S, WHETHER IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN AREA. THEY SHOULD PROBABLY SHOW YOU A MAP WHICH SHOW YOU THE SHAPE OF THE LOT THAT COULD SHOW YOU WHETHER IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN SHAPE. AND THEN, UM, ANY KIND OF TESTIMONY OR IF THERE'S TOPOGRAPHICAL LINES ON A MAP ARE, WILL ILLUSTRATE THAT IT'S RESTRICTIVE IN SLOPE. Y - THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW THAT. THEY MIGHT SHOW UP AND GO, "OH, MAN, YEAH, IT'S REALLY HILLY. IT'S GOT A BIG HILL." THERE'S, YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU CAN, YOU HAVE TO WEIGH THE VERACITY OF THEIR STATEMENT AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THE, UH, TOPOGRAP- TOPOGRAPHICAL DEVIATION. UM - OKAY, WE HAVE TO HOLD FOR A SECOND. UM, MS. EVANS AND MS. GARNER, ARE YOU ONLINE? WE'VE JUST LOST OUR QUORUM, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT. WE NEED NINE. YES. YES, I'M ON. THANK YOU. WE DO HAVE A QUORUM THANK YOU. CONTINUE. LET' WRA - GO AHEAD, LET'S WRAP IT UP BECAUSE I'M GONNA MOVE TO THE - CAN YOU BE PRESENT ON VIDEO, PLEASE? YES, I CAN. NINE IS OUR NUMBER TODAY. OKAY, THERE WE GO. GO AHEAD. SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND WRAP THIS UP. AND, AND, UH, UH - THE APPLICANT HAS THE BURDEN TO, TO PROVE THEIR CASE. UM, IF THE BOARD DECIDES AGAINST THEM, THEY HAVE 10 DAYS TO FILE AN APPEAL, AND IT GOES TO A DISTRICT COURT. SO IT'S THE SHORTER THE, THE LONGER THE SHORTER THE ANSWER IS THEY CAN APPEAL THE DECISION, OTHERWISE NOT. THERE'S NO RECOURSE. YOU CAN'T - SO THEY CAN'T GET A PERMIT FOR IT. YEAH, SO THEY CAN BUILD - THEY CAN BUILD THEIR HOUSE IN CONFINES WITH THE, WITH THE LAW. EXISTING CODE. WITH THE EXISTING CODE. THEY JUST DON'T GET A VARIANCE TO IT. SO A VARIANCE IS LIKE A S - I DON'T WANNA SAY A SPECIAL EXCEPTION BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE A LEGAL ENTITY CALLED A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, BUT IT'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THE CODE. IT'S A ZONING EXCEPTION [05:55:01] IN THE FORM OF A VARIANCE. SO THEN THEY ARE DENY THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD ON THEIR PIECE OF LAND WHERE? NO, SIR. THEY WOULD STILL BE ALLOWED TO BUILD ON THEIR PROPERTY. THEY JUST WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BUILD - BEYOND WHAT THE- THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUILD WITHIN THE - BEYOND WHAT THE CODE PROVIDES. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. E- E- EVERY PROPERTY OWNER IN DALLAS HAS R - UH, THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP ON, HAS, HAS THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP ON THEIR PROPERTY WITHIN THE CODE. IF YOU WANT BEYOND WHAT THE CODE ALLOWS FOR, THAT'S WHERE YOU COME HERE. SO, ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SAPP. UM, MS. BORDER, ATTORNEY BETHE, OUR NEXT PRESENTER. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. NEXT, WE HAVE MS. CARLISLE PRESENTING ON CITY OF DALLAS V. VENESCO. AND GUYS, THIS IS AN AGE-OLD CASE THAT SOME OF US ARE TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT, BUT IT IS TEXAS SUPREME COURT RULING, WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE PROPERTY DECISION, PROPERTY LAW DECISION IN THE STATE. MS. BETHE. IF YOU COULD MOVE TO THE NEXT SLIDE. SO I'M GONNA GO QUICK. THE... WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CITY OF DALLAS VERSUS VENESCO, AND THE ISSUE FOR THIS CASE IS WHETHER THE CITY CAN ENFORCE A ZONING ORDINANCE AGAINST A PROPERTY OWNER WHOSE SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETED NEW HOME HAS BEEN BUILT IN VIOLATION OF THE ORDINANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY HAD GIVEN PRELIMINARY APPROVAL TO THE OWNER'S BUILDING PLANS. NEXT SLIDE. SO BRIEFLY, THE VENESCOS WANTED A LARGER HOUSE, SO THEY TORE DOWN THEIR EXISTING HOUSE AND THEY BUILT A, A BIGGER ONE ON THE SAME LOT. UM, THE CITY APPROVED THE PLANS, BUT DURING INSPECTIONS, THE, UM, THE BUILDING INSPECTOR REALIZED THE ROOF WAS TOO TALL, BUT HE DIDN'T STOP, HE DIDN'T ISSUE A, UH, THE WORK TO BE STOPPED, BUT RECOMMENDED THAT THEY GO TO THE BOARD FOR A VARIANCE FOR THE HEIGHT. I WOULD THINK MS. EMILY LIU WOULD TELL THAT BUILDING INSPECTOR TODAY THEY SHOULD HAVE ISSUED A STOP WORK ORDER, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY MISTAKE NUMBER TWO. BUT OKAY. I WON'T OPINE. UM, NEXT SLIDE. SO 80% OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS SUPPORTED THE VARIANCE. THE OTHER 20% DIDN'T ACTIVELY SUPPORT THE VARIANCE, BUT THEY DIDN'T OBJECT TO IT EITHER. UM, SO WHEN IT WENT TO THE BOARD, THE BOARD WAS DEADLOCKED. THE, THE MOTION TO DENY FAILED, THE MOTION TO GRANT FAILED, SO THEN IT ULTIMATELY WAS DENIED BECAUSE NO MOTION WAS PASSED BECAUSE IT WAS DEADLOCKED. THE DISTRICT COURT REVERSED THE DECISION AND ORDERED THE MATTER REMANDED TO THE BOARD FOR FURTHER PROCEEDINGS, AND THE COURT OF APPEALS, UM, AFFIRMED THE DISTRICT COURT'S RULING TO REVERSE THE BOARD'S DECISION. SO THEN IT WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT OF TEXAS. AND THE ONLY QUESTION ON APPEAL IS WHETHER THE BOARD'S ACTION WAS LEGAL. AND TO ESTABLISH AN ILLEGAL ORDER, THE CHALLENGER MUST SHOW A CLEAR ABUSE OF DISCRETION. THE ZONING BOARD ABUSES ITS DISCRETION IF IT ACTS WITHOUT REFERENCE TO ANY GUIDING RULES AND PRINCIPLE OR CLEARLY FAILS TO ANALYZE OR APPLY THE LAW CORRECTLY. AND A REVIEWING COURT CANNOT SUBSTITUTE ITS OWN JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF THE BOARD BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE. UM, SO IN THIS CASE, THE SUPREME COURT HELD THAT THE BOARD DID NOT ABUSE ITS DISCRETION WHEN IT DENIED THE VARIANCE, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY APPROVED THE BUILDING PLANS. THE COURT REASONS THAT WHILE THE COST IN- INVOLVED IN RE-PITCHING THE ROOF ON THE STRUCTURE MAY CONSTITUTE A HARDSHIP, THE HARDSHIP IS NOT, IS NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE AREA, SHAPE, OR SLOPE OF THE PARCEL OF LAND. UM, THE MERE ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING PERMIT DOES NOT RENDER A CITY ZONING ORDINANCE UNENFORCEABLE. YOU NEED TO CLICK YOUR SCREEN, TERESA. OH, NOPE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SORRY. YES. UM, THE MERE ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING PERMIT DOES NOT RENDER A CITY ZONING ORDINANCE UNENFORCEABLE, NOR DOES THE FACT THAT A PERMIT THAT WAS ISSUED IN ERROR ENTITLED THE PROPERTY OWNER TO A VARIANCE. VARIANCES MUST BE BASED ON THE STANDARDS IN THE CODE, NOT ON PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES. SO, UM, NO- NOTHING ON THE PARCEL OF LAND REQUIRED THAT THE ROOF NEEDED TO BE HIGHER, SO THE VARIANCE WAS NOT NECESSARY TO PERMIT DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY BECAUSE IT COULD OTHERWISE BE DEVELOPED. THEY JUST CHOSE TO HAVE A HIGHER ROOF, SO THIS COURT SAID THAT WAS PERSONAL IN NATURE, UM, AND IT SHOULD BE DENIED. WHOPPER. SO, UM, THE VANESSA CASE IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED THAT THE CITY CAN ENFORCE THEIR ZONING LAWS, WHICH IS THE VARIANCE STANDARD, EVEN THOUGH A HOME IS NEARLY FINISHED AND EVEN THOUGH THE CITY PREVIOUSLY APPROVED THE BUILDING PERMIT. SO WE S - WE STILL NEED TO APPLY THE FACTS TO THE STANDARDS OF THE VARIANCE. QUESTIONS FOR MS. CARLISLE, AKAR, MEANING RETIRED FROM THE BOARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MS. BOARD ATTORNEY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I'LL BE PRESENTING THE NEXT, UH, FEW SLIDES. SO WE'RE GOING TO DELVE INTO ADMINISTRATIVE OF OFFICIAL APPEALS [06:00:01] AND, UM, AN AO APPEAL THAT WAS TAKEN TO, UH, THE COURT OF APPEALS. AND WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS, UM, IT'S ALREADY BEEN PREVIEWED A LITTLE BIT, ABUSE OF DISCRETION AND WHAT THAT STANDARD MEANS. SO NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. SO IN ADDITION TO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND VARIANCES, THE BOARD CAN ALSO HEAR ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL APPEALS, AND THAT AUTHORITY COMES FROM TWO PLACES. IT COMES FROM THE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, AND THAT IS ECHOED IN OUR OWN CODE. SO THE BOARD CAN AFFIRM, REVERSE, OR AMEND THE DECISION OF AN OFFICIAL, AND IT CAN ALSO IMPOSE REASONABLE CONDITIONS, UM, AS A WAY OF AMENDING THE DECISION. AS WE ALL KNOW, THESE TYPE OF CASES ARE POWERFUL, BUT RARE. IT'S NOT THAT OFTEN THAT WE HAVE APPEALS OF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIALS, BUT IT'S VERY POWERFUL BECAUSE... YES, GO AHEAD. CORRECT. AN APPEAL, UM, OF THIS NATURE ALLOWS A PERSON TO CHALLENGE AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL'S DECISION, UM, AND THE MOST COMMON APPEALS THAT WE WOULD SEE HERE AT THE BOARD ARE REVOCATION OR DENIALS OF CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCIES OR BUILDING PERMITS. NEXT SLIDE. SO IN ORDER TO DO THIS, THE BOARD HAS TO STAND IN THE SHOES OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL, AND THE BOARD DETERMINES WHETHER THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ERRED IN THAT DECISION. SO YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THE FACTS AND APPLY THEM, UM, JUST AS THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL WOULD TO THE STANDARD THAT HE OR SHE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW. NEXT SLIDE. MAYBE. THERE WE GO. SO DURING THE APPEAL, AS I SAID, THE BOARD ONLY HAS THE POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, AND YOU CAN SEE THOSE POWERS AND DUTIES OUTLINED THERE IN THE TOP BULLET. SO PURSUANT TO THE CODE, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL HAS THE POWER TO ISSUE PERMITS AND CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY AND AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS UNDER CHAPTER 51A. SO WHEN STANDING IN THE SHOES OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, BECAUSE THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY, THE BOARD CANNOT LEGISLATIVELY CHANGE ANYTHING. THEY CAN'T ALTER THE INTENT OR EXTENT OF A ZONING ORDINANCE. THIS CHANGE CAN ONLY BE MADE BY CITY COUNCIL, SO YOU CAN ONLY TAKE THE FACTS PRESENTED AND APPLY THEM TO THE CODE AS WRITTEN TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE DECISION WAS MADE IN ERROR. AND YOU CAN ONLY MODIFY TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CODE ALLOWS. NEXT SLIDE. SO LET'S PAUSE FOR ONE SECOND AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS YET ON THE WHOLE PROCESS ON AO APPEALS. OKAY, KEEP GOING. ALL RIGHT. SO NEXT WE'RE GONNA DIVE INTO TCH DALLAS TWO LLC V. ESPINOZA. THIS IS A 2024 COURT OF APPEALS CASE. NOW, I SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE BOARD ATTORNEY TO ADDRESS THIS BECAUSE IT GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT THE BOARD WENT THROUGH AND THEN THE APPEAL AND THE APPEAL OF THE APPEAL. YES. LOTS OF APPEALS GOING ON, SO I TRIED TO LAY IT OUT IN A TIMELINE FOR YOU TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE DIGESTIBLE. SO THIS ALL STARTED OCTOBER 2020. THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ISSUED A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, CO FOR SHORT, TO TEXAS CARDHOUSE. A LITTLE OVER A YEAR LATER IN DECEMBER 2021, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL THEN REVOKED THE CO, UM, BECAUSE THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH VIOLATING STATE LAW AND KEEPING A GAMBLING PLACE. SO TEXAS CARDHOUSE APPEALS THAT DECISION IN JANUARY OF 2022 TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. BOARD HEARS THE CASE IN MARCH 2022 AND THEY END UP REVERSING THE BUILDING OFFICIAL'S DECISION AND THEY REINSTATE TEXAS CARDHOUSE'S CO. WELL, THEN APRIL 2022, THE BUILDING OFFICIAL APPEALS THE BOARD'S DECISION TO STATE DISTRICT COURT. AND IN OCTOBER, THE DISTRICT COURT REVERSES THE BOARD'S DECISION BECAUSE THE CO WAS ISSUED IN VIOLATION OF STATE LAW, THE JUDGE SAYS. AND I'LL JUST MAKE AN EDITORIAL COMMENT THAT APP - THAT A DISTRICT COURT APPEAL LASTED ONE HOUR. THE CASE WAS HEARD BY THE JUDGE AND HE TOOK ONE HOUR. THAT'S ALL. AND, AND, UH, IT WAS KIND OF SHOCKING BECAUSE I WAS REPRESENTING THE BOARD WITH AN ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE BOARD AND, AND THE JUDGE TOOK ONE HOUR AND THAT'S IT. OKAY. SO ONCE, UM, THAT DECISION WAS RENDERED, THE TEXAS CARDHOUSE APPEALS THE DISTRICT COURT'S RULING TO THE COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH DISTRICT OF TEXAS AT DALLAS. SO NEXT SLIDE. SO ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF LATER, AUGUST 2024, THE FIFTH COURT OF APPEALS RULES. AND INSTEAD OF TELLING YOU RIGHT OFF THE BAT WHAT THEY, HOW THEY RULED, IF THEY AFFIRMED THE BOARD'S DECISION, I THOUGH I WOULD GIVE YOU A FEW EXCERPTS FROM THE OPINION, [06:05:01] UM, AND YOU CAN TAKE A GUESS AT WHAT THEIR DECISION ENDED UP BEING. I'VE GOT FOUR PRETTY SHORT EXCERPTS THAT WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH. SO NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. EXCERPT NUMBER ONE, WITH RESPECT TO A ZONING BOARD'S FACTUAL FINDINGS, A REVIEWING COURT MAY NOT SUBSTITUTE ITS OWN JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF THE BOARD. INSTEAD, A PARTY CHALLENGING THOSE FINDINGS MUST ESTABLISH THAT THE BOARD COULD HAVE ONLY, COULD ONLY HAVE REASONABLY REACHED ONE DECISION. YOU'LL SEE VENESCO CITED IN THERE WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. THE VERIFIED RECORD REFLECTS THAT THE BOARD'S DECISION WAS BASED UPON SIGNIFICANT HISTORICAL FACTS RELATING TO GOVERNMENTAL OVERSIGHT REVIEW AND APPROVAL. NEXT SLIDE. THE DISCUSSION AMONG THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD REFLECTED THE ISSUE OF WHETHER TEXAS COURTHOUSE'S OPERATIONS WERE LEGAL OR ILLEGAL HAD NOT BEEN DETERMINED BY A COURT OF LAW. NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT, THIS IS THE LAST ONE. IF REASONABLE MINDS COULD HAVE REACHED THE CONCLUSION THE BOARD MUST HAVE REACHED TO JUSTIFY ITS ACTION, THE TRIAL COURT MUST UPHOLD THE BOARD'S ORDER. IN OTHER WORDS, THE PARTY CHALLENGING THE BOARD'S FINDINGS MUST ESTABLISH THAT THE BOARD COULD ONLY HAVE REASONABLY REACHED ONE DECISION. SO BEFORE I REVEAL HOW THE COURT RULED, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY GUESSES? AFFIRM, REVERSE THE BOARD'S DECISION? IS ANYBODY FEELING BRAVE? AND B - AND A SPOILER ALERT HERE AND KUDOS TO BOARD ATTORNEY EMERITUS, MR. MOORE. THIS, THAT WAS HIS FIRST, WAS THAT YOUR FIRST DAY ON THE JOB, MR. MOORE? IT WAS MY FIRST BOARD MEETING WHERE I WAS BY MYSELF. OKAY. IT WAS HIS FIRST BOARD MEETING BY HIMSELF AND WE HAD THIS WHOPPER OF A BO APPEAL. OKAY? AND HE KEPT SAYING TO US, "ENTER FACTS INTO THE RECORD. KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE FACTS. WHAT'S THE STANDARD? WHAT ARE THE FACTS? STANDARDS AND FACTS. STANDARDS AND FACTS." OKAY? I'M NOT TRYING TO SPOIL ALERT. WE, OBVIOUSLY, WE WOULDN'T TALK ABOUT A CASE THAT WE LOST, GUYS, BUT GO AHEAD. OKAY. SO LOCK IN YOUR FINAL ANSWER AND WE'LL DO THE BIG REVEAL ON THE NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. SO YES. THE COURT AFFIRMED THE BOARD'S DECISION TO REINSTATE THE CO, AND THEIR REASONING FOR THAT WAS THEY DID NOT FIND THAT THE BOARD ABUSED THEIR DISCRETION. HO- HOLD THAT THOUGHT. THEREIN LIES THE CRITICAL THING FOR US. IF YOU REMEMBER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING TODAY, I SAID WE HAVE HAD ONLY ONE APPEAL OF A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DECISION THIS YEAR, AND THAT'S BECAUSE WE ARE GETTING BETTER AND BETTER ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE BUILD A RECORD AND WE HAVE A RECOGNIZED STANDARDS THAT WE APPLY OUR DECISIONS AGAINST, THEREFORE NOT ABUSING OUR DISCRETION. SO THEY STATE, AND I QUOTE, "THE BOARD ABUSES ITS DISCRETION IF IT ACTS WITHOUT REFERENCE TO GUIDING RULES AND PRINCIPLES OR CLEARLY FAILS TO ANALYZE OR APPLY THE LAW CORRECTLY." SO IN THIS CASE, THE BOARD'S DECISION, THEY NOTED THIS, THIS WAS IN ONE OF THE EXCERPTS I SHOWED YOU, WAS BASED ON SIGNIFICANT HISTORICAL FACTS WHICH COULD HAVE LED TO MORE THAN ONE REASONABLE CONCLUSION. AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THE COURTS CAN'T SUBSTITUTE THEIR OWN JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF THE BOARD. SO IF REASONABLE MINDS COULD REACH THE BOARD'S CONCLUSION... NO, IT'S GOOD. OH, IS IT? OKAY. IT, IT'S GOOD RIGHT NOW. OKAY. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. UM, SO IF REASONABLE MINDS COULD REACH THE BOARD'S CONCLUSIONS, THEN A REVIEWING COURT MUST UPHOLD THEIR DECISION. AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO BRIEFLY NOTE THE COURT DIDN'T, UM, TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RULE ON THE LEGALITY OF GAMBLING, SO THAT, UM, THAT WAS NOT ADDRESSED IN THE OPINION. I AM SURE THE JUDGE THAT OVERRULED THE BOARD WAS STUNNED THAT HE GOT OVERRULED. AND IT WAS ON A THREE-PERSON PANEL AND WAS THREE TO ZERO OVERRULED, THE APPEALS COURT. I'M GLOATING FOR THE BOARD. ALL RIGHT. NOW, NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. SO ABUSIVE DISCRETION. WE'VE MENTIONED THAT SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE COURSE OF THE AFTERNOON. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WELL, UM, THE COURT DOES NOT REVIEW THE MATTER FROM SCRATCH. INSTEAD, IT GIVES DEFERENCE TO THE BOARD'S FACT-FINDING DECISIONS. THE BOARD HAS AUTHORITY TO MAKE THOSE DISCRETIONARY DECISIONS, UM, AND THE COURT RESPECTS THAT THE BOARD HAS THAT AUTHORITY, UNLESS THE BOARD IS ABUSING THAT DISCRETION. SO ABUSIVE DISCRETION CAN LOOK LIKE A DECISION THAT'S MADE WITHOUT ANY RATIONAL EXPLANATION. AND BASICALLY THAT MEANS IF A DECISION CANNOT BE EXPLAINED IN A WAY THAT TIES TO THE STANDARDS AND FACTS OF THE CASE, IT CAN'T BE CONSIDERED [06:10:01] A REASONABLE CONCLUSION AND IT'S AT RISK OF BEING OVERTURNED. STANDARDS AND FACTS. MAKE SURE THAT AS YOU'RE HEARING A CASE, YOU, YOU, YOUR QUESTIONS, THE DISCUSSION RELATES TO STANDARDS AND FACTS. CORRECT. AND, UM, JUST AS A REMINDER, UH, THE COURT DIDN'T ANSWER THE, THE LEGAL QUESTION OF GAMBLING. THAT'S REVIEWED UNDER A STANDARD CLOSER TO DE NOVO, WHICH WOULD MEAN FROM SCRATCH, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BOARD'S FACT-FINDING, UM, AUTHORITY AND ABILITIES. SO NEXT SLIDE. SO HOW DO WE PREVENT AN ABUSIVE DISCRETION RULING? AND THIS DOESN'T JUST APPLY TO AO APPEALS. IT APPLIES TO VARIANCES, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, EVERYTHING YOU HEAR. AND IT'S GONNA COME DOWN TO HAVING A CLEAN RECORD. THIS IS WHY CHAIRMAN NEWMAN IS SO ADAMANT THAT YOU SAY EVERYTHING ON THE RECORD. WE WANT IT ALL OUT THERE. SO COURTS WILL LOOK TO THE RECORD TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RATIONALE AND DECIDE IF THE DECISION WAS REASONABLE. HOLD ON ONE SECOND. UH, LITERALLY, THE TRANSCRIPT FROM THE TWO FULL DAY HEARING WAS ENTERED INTO THE APPEALS PROCESS. CORRECT. AND YOU'D SEE BOARD MEMBER X'S NAME SAYING X, Y, Z, AND BOARD MEMBER Y'S NAME SAYING X, Y, Z, AND BOARD ATTORNEY HERE SAYING X, Y, Z. SO WHEN I JOKE ABOUT HOW WE'RE BEING AUDIO TAPED AND VIDEOTAPED RIGHT NOW, ABSOLUTELY. NOW, WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY LEGAL DECISIONS TODAY OTHER THAN ADOPTING OUR CALENDAR, SOME OTHER THINGS, BUT EVERY TIME WE HAVE A HEARING THAT THEIR PROPERTY'S IN FRONT OF US, I PROMISE YOU, THERE'S A TRANSCRIPT THAT'S, THAT'S BEING CREATED IF IT'S ON APPEAL. CORRECT. AND I PULLED IT UP. I WENT INTO THE CLERK'S RECORD ON DALLAS COUNTY. IT, IT'S ALL THERE. UM, SO, SO - MERITUS ATTORNEY'S FAMOUS FOR ALL OF HIS COMMENTS. DAN, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK UP AND SMILE. SO JUST SOME QUICK DOS AND DON'TS. DO LOOK AT THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS AND FACTS AND INCORPORATE THEM INTO YOUR REASONING. THEY'RE MARRIED TO EACH OTHER. THEY NEED TO COINCIDE. AND IF YOU'RE CONFUSED, ASK QUESTIONS OF ALL THE PARTIES. UM, MAKE SURE YOU'RE UNDERSTANDING, UH, WHAT'S AT ISSUE. AND THIRD, VOICE YOUR REASONING. DON'T LEAVE IT ALL IN YOUR HEAD. UM, ACTUALLY SAY IT ON THE RECORD AND CONNECT THE FACTS THAT, AS YOU UNDERSTAND THEM, TO THE CORRECT LEGAL STANDARD. AND IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LEGAL STANDARD, THAT'S WHEN YOU CAN ASK THE ATTORNEY. AND JUST TWO QUICK DON'TS. DON'T MAKE DECISIONS WITHOUT AN EXPLANATION, WHICH IS KIND OF WHAT I JUST SAID, AND PROVIDE AN EXPL - DON'T PROVIDE AN EXPLANATION THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE FACTS OR STANDARDS. DON'T START TALKING ABOUT SOME OTHER STANDARD THAT APPLIES TO SOMETHING ELSE OR FACTS THAT AREN'T RELEVANT. UM, AND AS LONG AS IT'S ON THE RECORD, THE COURT, AS CHAIRMAN NEWMAN SAID, WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE TRANSCRIPT. AND IF THEY CAN FOLLOW THAT, YOU ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE OVERTURNED BECAUSE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO FOLLOW YOUR RATIONALE AND THEY GRANT DEFERENCE. THIS BO, THE WAY THE BOARD HANDLED THIS CASE IS ONE OF OUR SHINING MOMENTS BECAUSE WE FOLLOWED THE LAW. WE DID IT METHODICALLY. WE PUT INFORMATION IN THE RECORD. UH, THERE WA - THERE WAS NO COMMENTS TO THE FAR RIGHT OR TO THE FAR LEFT. IT WAS RIGHT DOWN THE FAIRWAY TO USE A GOLFING EXPRESSION. MR. HAPKOVITZ. UM, SO LET'S SAY IN THAT CASE, UH, BECAUSE THE STANDARD SEEMS BEYOND HIGH, THIS, THIS, WHAT'S BEEN LAID OUT FOR US HERE, THAT THE COURT, HOW THE COURT EVALUATES IT. WE COULD HAVE HAD, UM, ANY NUMBER OF THINGS WE DID THAT WERE PER - WERE PERHAPS INCORRECT OR IMPROPER HAPPEN IN THAT HEARING. IF THE STANDARD IS ONLY, THERE'S ONLY ONE REASONABLE OUTCOME THE BOARD COULD HAVE HAD, THEN HOW WE GET THERE SEEMS LESS RELEVANT. WELL, I THINK WHAT THE APPEALS COURT IS SAYING IS THAT WE DID NOT ABUSE OUR DISCRETION, AND THAT IS THE KEY THING THEY LOOKED AT. AND THEY KIND OF SAID THAT THE DISTRICT COURT INSERTED HIS JUDGMENT FOR THE BOARD'S JUDGMENT, AND THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT UNLESS WE ABUSED OUR DISCRETION. BECAUSE IN TEXAS, BOARDS SUCH AS THIS HAVE A DISCRETION IN OUR DECISION-MAKING PROCESS. SO, I MEAN, DID THE COURT ACTUALLY SAY THAT, THAT, UM, WAS THAT THEIR WORDS, THAT IF, IF, THAT THERE WAS NO OTHER REASONABLE CONCLUSION THE BOARD COULD REACH? DID THE BOARD - I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S IN THE RECORD. DID THE COURT ACTUALLY SAY THAT? SO THEY SAY IF REASONABLE MINDS COULD REACH THE BOARD'S CONCLUSIONS, THEN THEY, THEY MUST UPHOLD. SO IF REASONABLE MINDS COULD DISAGREE, IF THEY COULD REACH MORE THAN ONE CONCLUSION, THEY'RE GOING TO DEFER TO WHAT THE BOARD DECIDED. THEY'RE NOT GONNA SUBSTITUTE WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE RIGHT DECISION. [06:15:01] OKAY. SO BASICALLY ONLY IF WE WERE INCREDIBLY INEPT WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO TESTIFY ON ATTORNEY? WELL, IF THE WORD WOULD BE INCREDIBLY, BUT, UM, UH, DEMONSTRATIVELY, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY INEPT. AND WE'RE USING STANDARDS THAT WE MADE UP OR IMPLIED AS OPPOSED TO THINGS THAT WE, AGAIN, DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE FAIRWAY. THAT SEEMS LIKE AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL STANDARD TO HAVE IN OUR POCKET. WE ARE. WELL, I THINK THAT, THAT IS A REASON WHY I'M BRING - ELEVATING THIS CASE IS BECAUSE IT REINFORCES, BECAUSE MOST CASES DON'T MAKE IT TO THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT 1%. THEY'RE DECIDED BY APPEALS COURTS LIKE THIS. AND SO THIS IS REALLY WHERE CASE LAW IS MADE. THE FINESCO CASE IS A RARE, RARE CASE. THAT'S WHY WE TALK ABOUT IT EVERY YEAR. BUT THIS, THIS IS, AND THIS HELD, IT'S, AND IT WAS APPEALED AGAIN BY THE CITY, BLESS YOUR HEARTS, TO THE SUPREME COURT. AND THEY DECLINED TO HEAR THE CASE, WHICH MEANS THEY SUSTAINED THE APPEALS COURT DECISION AND THEIR REASONING. SO KUDOS TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. MR. SLADE? NOPE. NOPE. OKAY. SO I'M BRAGGING ON, ON THE PART OF THE BOARD. WE DID OUR JOB THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE. QUESTIONS ON, ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE? IF NOT, WE'LL GO TO COMPLIANCE CASES. GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT. NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. UP NEXT, WE HAVE COMPLIANCE CASES. WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT NON-CONFORMING USES HERE. NEXT SLIDE. SOMETIMES THE BOARD MAY HEAR COMPLIANCE CASES. I THINK IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME, UM, SINCE ONE HAS BEEN HEARD. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT, UH, WE WILL HEAR ANY AT ALL DURING MY TENURE, BUT WE'LL SEE. UM, BUT THEY MAY HEAR THOSE CASES AND DECIDE WHETHER A USE THAT NO LONGER MEETS CURRENT RULES, WHICH IS CALLED A NON-CONFORMING USE, SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN. AND THESE ARE USES THAT WERE LEGAL UNDER OLD RULES, UM, BUT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED UNDER CURRENT ONES. SO BEFORE MAKING A DECISION, THE CITY COUNCIL FIRST REQUESTS THAT THE BOARD CONSIDER IMPOSING A COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENT. ONCE THE REQUEST IS MADE, THE CITY'S CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER CHECKS TO SEE IF THERE IS ENOUGH MONEY IN THE FUND TO COVER POTENTIAL COSTS RELATED TO ENFORCING COMPLIANCE. AND IF THERE ARE ENOUGH FUNDS, THE BOARD WILL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING TO DECIDE IF KEEPING THE NONCONFORMING USE WILL HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTIES. IF THE USES ENDED, THE PROPERTY OWNER MUST BE GIVEN A FAIR CHANCE TO RECOVER THEIR INVESTMENT AND THAT'S, UM, WHEN REMEDIES AND FUNDS KICKS IN. NEXT SLIDE. SO THE FACTORS TO CONSIDER WHEN DETERMINING WHETHER THE OPERATION OF A NONCONFORMING USE WILL HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTIES IS ACTUALLY ENUMERATED IN THE CODE UNDER 51A-4. 704. AND IT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE CHARACTER, INCOMPATIBILITY, THE MANNER IN WHICH IT'S BEING CONDUCTED, THE HOURS OF OPERATIONS, THREATS TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, PUBLIC DISTURBANCES, TRAFFIC OR PARKING PROBLEMS, AND THEN THE CATCHALL, ANY OTHER FACTORS THAT CAN ADVERSELY AFFECT NEARBY PROPERTIES. NEXT SLIDE. OH, I THINK YOU WENT ONE SLIDE TOO FAR. YOU WANT HIM TO GO BACK ONE? YEAH, GO BACK ONE, MATT. OKAY, PERFECT. THANK YOU. SO IF THE BOARD, BASED ON EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, DETERMINES THAT THE CONTINUED OPERATION OF THE USE WILL NOT HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT, IT MAY CONTINUE TO OPERATE. HOWEVER, IF THE BOARD DETERMINES THAT THE NON-CONFORMING USE WILL HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON NEARBY PROPERTIES, THE BOARD WILL IMPOSE A COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENT AND THIS DECISION IS NOT FINAL AND CAN'T BE APPEALED RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE THEN THERE NEEDS TO BE A DETERMINATION OF REMEDIES. UM, AND THAT'S DETERMINED BY THE PLANNING DIRECTOR. THE DIRECTOR MUST FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH THE OWNER OR LESSEE SHOULD BE COMPENSATED, AND THIS INCLUDES TWO PARTS, THE COST OF THE PROPERTY, THE COST THE PROPERTY OWNER OR LESSEE WOULD FACE FROM STOPPING THE NON-CONFORMING USE, INCLUDING EXPENSES RELATED TO DEMOLITION, RELOCATION, TERMINATION OF THE LEASE OR DISCHARGE OF THE MORTGAGE, AND HOW MUCH THE PROPERTY'S MARKET VALUE HAS DROPPED BECAUSE THE NON-CONFORMING USE MUST STOP. SO BASICALLY THE FORMULA IS KIND OF, THEY SUBTRACT THE PROPERTY'S VALUE, UM, AFTER THE SHUTDOWN FROM ITS VALUE BEFORE THE SHUTDOWN. SO THE OWNER LESSEE IS ENTITLED TO WHICHEVER AMOUNT OF THOSE TWO IS GREATER. NEXT SLIDE. SO THE PROPERTY OWNER OR LESSEE, UH, HAS TWO OPTIONS. THEY CAN TAKE THE PAYMENT FROM THE CITY FOR THE AMOUNT CALCULATED, [06:20:01] UH, BY THE FORMULA WE TALKED ABOUT ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, OR THEY CAN KEEP OPERATING THE USE THROUGH NORMAL BUSINESS OPERATIONS UNTIL THEY EARN BACK THAT AMOUNT THAT WAS CALCULATED. SO AFTER THE BOARD DECIDES TO SHUT DOWN THE NON-CONFORMING USE, THE DIRECTOR MUST SEND WRITTEN NOTICE TO THE OWNER WITHIN 10 DAYS OF THE HEARING EXPLAINING THE DECISION AND THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS. AND THEN WITHIN 30 DAYS OF RECEIVING THAT NOTICE, THE OWNER OR LESSEE HAS TO SEND BACK A WRITTEN RESPONSE STATING, UH, WHICH REMEDY THEY'RE GOING TO CHOOSE. NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. IF THE PROPERTY OWNER OR LESSEE CHOOSE TO RECEIVE A PAYMENT, THEY MUST STOP OPERATING THE NON-CONFORMING USE WITHIN 10 DAYS AFTER RECEIVING THAT PAYMENT. BUT IF THEY CHOOSE TO KEEP OPERATING THE USE, UM, THEY MUST STOP IMMEDIATELY ONCE THEY'VE EARNED BACK THE AMOUNT SET BY THE DIRECTOR. AND A PERSON IS ENTITLED TO A REM - ENTITLED TO A REMEDY CAN APPEAL THE DIRECTOR'S DECISION TO THE BOARD WITHIN 20 DAYS AFTER THE DIRECTOR'S DETERMINATION. AND, UM, IN THAT INSTANCE, THE DIRECTOR IS THE ONE WITH THE BURDEN THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEIR DETERMINATION, THEIR CALCULATIONS WERE CORRECT. IF THE BOARD FINDS THAT THE PAYMENT SHOULD BE DIFFERENT, IT CAN ORDER THE CITY TO PAY MORE. IT CAN REQUIRE THE OWNER TO PAY BACK MONEY TO THE CITY, OR IT CAN ADJUST THE AMOUNT OF TIME THE NON-CONFORMING USE CAN CONTINUE. AND THE BOARD'S DECISION ON THAT IS FINAL UNLESS IT'S APPEALED TO THE DISTRICT COURT WITHIN 20 DAYS. NEXT SLIDE. ALL RIGHT. WE'VE GOT ANOTHER INSTANCE OF AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION HERE, IF YOU'LL INDULGE ME. UM, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE CASE. UH, I DID NOT BASE IT OFF A REAL CASE. I JUST KIND OF MADE IT UP. BUT IN THIS SITUATION, WE HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL USE NEAR A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, THE INDUSTRIAL USE PREDATES THE RESIDENTIAL USE AND IS NOT CONFORMING. THE INDUSTRIAL USE CREATES HAZARDOUS RUNOFF. IT OPERATES TWENTY FOUR SEVEN AND IT USES LOUD MACHINES. AND SO THE CITY COUNCIL REQUESTS THE BOARD'S REVIEW TO DETERMINE, UH, WHETHER THE USE ADVERSELY AFFECTS NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, WHAT ARE SOME FACTORS DO YOU THINK WOULD BE OF CONCERN? AND I THINK THE FACTORS ARE ON PAGE 167 OF YOUR DOCKET IF YOU NEED TO SCROLL BACK AND LOOK. DOES ANYBODY WANNA... SHE'S LOOKING FOR AUDIENCE- AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION, GUYS. MR. FINNEY, I KNEW YOU'D GIVE US SOME. NO, THAT'S NOT A SLAM. I, I LIKE IT. UM, IMPACTS ON HEALTH. YES. I, THAT WAS ONE I HAD WRITTEN DOWN. UM, ALSO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS. YES, DEFINITELY. ANYBODY ELSE? PERHAPS HOURS OF OPERATION, MAYBE. PUBLIC DISTURBANCES WITH THE LOUD MACHINES. YES. I THINK, UM, THOSE ARE DEFINITELY ONES TO LOOK AT. SO IF THE BOARD LOOKS AT THOSE FACTORS AND DECIDES, YES, IT DOES HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT, THE PLANNING DIRECTOR CALCULATES THE COST, WHICH CAN BE APPEALED. IF APPEALED, THE DIRECTOR HAS THE BURDEN TO SHOW THE COSTS ARE CORRECT. IF DEEMED INCORRECT, THE BOARD CAN ORDER THE CITY, AGAIN, PAY MORE, UM, REQUIRE THE OWNER TO PAY BACK MONEY OR ADJUST THE TIME FOR THE NONCONFORMING USE. AND IF THEY DETERMINE THE USE DOESN'T HAVE AN ADVERSE EFFECT, THE USE CAN CONTINUE. THESE COMPLIANCE CASES ARE RARE. I CAN'T THINK OF ONE. CAN YOU GUYS THINK OF ANY COMPLIANCE CASES THAT HAVE COME THROUGH? I, DANIEL? I THINK THE LAST ONE WE DID WAS IN 2016, SO IT'S BEEN A DECADE. YEAH, SO IT'S BEEN A WHILE. AND THEN SINCE - IT'S VERY POWERFUL, THE, THE AUTHORITY OF THE BOARD, BUT THE O - THE O - THE, THE DECISION FIRST IS THE CITY COUNCILS. SO AN APPLICANT OR AN INDIVIDUAL HAS TO PETITION CITY COUNCIL. THEY HAVE TO APPROVE IT. THEY HAVE TO APPROVE A REFERRAL TO US WITH MONEY, WHICH THAT'S A TWO-STEP WHOPPER. THEN WE HAVE A HEARING. THEN THE DIRECTOR, MS. LIU, MAKES A DECISION ON MONEY, AND IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT, THEN THEY CAN APPEAL BACK TO US. BUT IT'S LITERALLY CLOSING DOWN A BUSINESS. RIGHT. QUESTIONS? SO - YES, MR. FINNEY. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MONEY, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE CITY HAS TO PAY DAMAGES TO THE COMPANY THAT WE'RE SHUTTING DOWN? IT'S, IT'S PAYING FOR CLOSING YOUR BUSINESS. YEAH. FINDING A VALUE FOR CLOSING YOUR BUSINESS AND PUTTING IT OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. YES. LITERALLY. TAXPAYER MONEY. OKAY. COOL. WHICH IS WHY IT'S DETERMINED FIRST IF THERE'S MONEY IN THE FUND TO, TO DO THAT BEFORE THEY PURSUE IT. IT'S AN INTERESTING WAY OF USING PA - TAXPAYER FUNDS. OKAY. YES, CORRECT. OKAY. ALMOST LIKE EM- EMINENT DOMAIN. AND THIS IS BASED ON ALL THE VARIOUS LEGAL PRECEDENTS BASED ON NUISANCE LAWS AND SUCH, RIGHT? CORRECT. OKAY. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. AND NEXT UP, WE'RE GONNA HEAR FROM MR. MOORE ABOUT TOMA. MR. EMERITUS, GOOD AFTERNOON. YOU STILL WITH US? I'M STILL HERE, CHAIRMAN. ALL RIGHT. TELL US ABOUT TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT. CERTAINLY. BUT BEFORE I DO, I'D LIKE TO SORT OF [06:25:01] SET THE STAGE BY SAYING WHAT I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT. SO AS EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS FAMILIAR, YOU GUYS, UM, OR I GUESS I SHOULD SAY STAFF SENDS NOTICE TO PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN 200 FEET AND YOU PUT AN AD IN THE NEWSPAPER, I BELIEVE IT'S 10 DAYS IN ADVANCE OF YOUR PUBLIC HEARING TO INFORM THE PUBLIC. THOSE ARE NOT REQUIRED BY TOMA. THOSE ARE ADDITIONAL NOTICE PROVISIONS. SO I JUST WANNA SAY THOSE EXIST AND SET THEM OFF TO THE SIDE. THAT'S NOT WHAT I WILL BE DISCUSSING IN THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. SO NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO THIS, UH, THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT APPLIES TO EVERY REGULAR SPECIAL CALLED MEETING OF A GOVERNMENTAL BODY. A GOVERNMENTAL BODY IS EVERYTHING FROM BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, CITY COUNCIL, THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT, THE TEXAS EDUCATION AGENCY DOWN IN AUSTIN. LIKE ALL THE STATE AGENCIES ARE SUBJECT TO THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS ARE SUBJECT TO THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. SO IT APPLIES TO COUNCIL, BOARD AND COMMISSION. AND WHAT IT DOES IN ITS MOST SIMPLE NATURE IS IT ALLOWS THE PUBLIC TO WATCH ITS GOVERNMENT IN ACTION. SO YOU HAVE TO NOTICE YOUR MEETINGS TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW WHEN YOU WILL BE MEETING, AND YOU HAVE TO SAY THIS ARE THE, THESE ARE THE DECISIONS THAT WE COULD TAKE. SO YOU NOTICE IT BY PLACING YOUR NOTICE ONLINE AND ON THE CITY SECRETARY, IT HAS THIS COOL ELECTRONIC BULLETIN BOARD ON THE FIRST FLOOR BY THE BLUE ELEVATORS IF YOU'RE INTERESTED. IT'S JUST IMAGES OF THE PDFS OF THE NOTICE. AND THEN THOMAS SAYS ANY ACTION THAT'S TAKEN IN VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS VOIDABLE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. OKAY. SO GOVERNMENTAL BODIES. SO LIKE I MENTIONED, IT'S MANDATORY FOR EVERY, EVERY GOVERNMENTAL BODY. THE, UM, ZONING ENABLING ACT, WHICH IS CHAPTER 211 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT THE ZONING COMMISSION, SO CPC AND BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. ADDITIONALLY - LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE. DANIEL. ADDITIONALLY, CHAPTER EIGHT OF THE CITY CODE SAYS THAT ALL CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S SORT OF THE LAY OF THE LAND WHY WE'RE HERE. UM, NEXT SLIDE, AND THIS WILL GET INTO WHAT IS ACTUALLY WHEN IT'S TRIGGERED. SO LIKE I MENTIONED, YOU HAVE TO NOTICE YOUR MEETINGS. WHAT ARE MEETINGS? MEETINGS ARE A DELIBERATION OF A QUORUM OF THE GOVERNMENTAL BODY WHERE YOU'RE DISCUSSING BUSINESS. SO A QUORUM IS, FOR MOST BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, A QUORUM IS JUST A SIMPLE MAJORITY OF THE BODY, UNLESS THOMAS SAYS, UNLESS THERE'S A DIFFERENT QUORUM CREATED BY ORDINANCE. ORDINANCE SAYS THAT FOR YOU ALL, IT'S 75%. SO WE HAVE 15, IF FULLY APPOINTED, WE HAVE 15 MEMBERS. SO THE WAY YOU CALCULATE THAT WOULD BE FOR A FULL BOARD MEETING, 15 TIMES 0.75 EQUALS, UH, 11. IS THAT RIGHT? NO, IT'S 12 AS YOU ROUND UP. 12, YES. SO WE HAVE, FOR A FULLY APPOINTED BOARD, WE HAVE TO HAVE 12 MEMBERS. WE ONLY HAVE 12 MEMBERS APPOINTED RIGHT NOW, SO OUR, OUR QUORUM FOR A FULL BOARD MEETING IS NINE. FOR A PANEL, IT'S FOUR. AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE A QUORUM, THEY'RE DISCUSSING BUSINESS, THAT IS A MEETING O - UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT THAT MUST BE NOTICED. DISCUSSION IS, DISCUSSION AND DELIBERATIONS ARE SYNONYMS UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, AND IT CAN INCLUDE VERBAL COMMUNICATION OR WRITTEN COMMUNICATION. UM, WHICH THE WRITTEN COMMUNICATION... NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. IS WHAT CAN CAUSE SOME INTERESTING THINGS WITH WALKING QUORUMS. AND I'M NOT GONNA READ THIS SLIDE AT YOU BECAUSE THIS IS THE SECTION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, JUST WORD FOR WORD, THE WALKING QUORUM SECTION. BUT IN ESSENCE, THE WALKING QUORUM IS THE LEGISLATURE'S WAY TO PRO- PROBI - UH, TO CREATE A PROHIBITION ON LIKE, UH, TELEPHONE, IF YOU REMEMBER AS A CHILD WHERE PERSON A TELLS PERSON B SOMETHING, WHO TELLS PERSON C, WHO TELLS PERSON D, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS TRYING TO, TO DESCRIBE. AND SO IT MAKES IT A VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT FOR YOU TO ENGAGE IN A SERIES OF COMMUNICATIONS THAT YOU KNOW WILL EVENTU - THAT IS LESS THAN A QUORUM, BUT YOU KNOW EVENTUALLY WILL BECOME A QUORUM. AND THAT'S A NO-NO, DON'T DO IT. SO NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THAT COULD INCLUDE STUFF LIKE, YOU KNOW, AN EMAIL TO, UM, FROM BOARD MEMBER X TO BOARD MEMBER Y SAYING, YOU KNOW, "I'M GONNA VOTE THIS WAY ON CASE NUMBER TWO NEXT WEEK." AND THAT GETS FORWARDED TO BOARD MEMBER Z AND FORWARDED SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO ALL THAT TO SAY [06:30:01] EMAILS ARE THE WORST. I KNOW WHEN STAFF, UH, SEND YOU GUYS COMMUNICATIONS, THEY BCC YOU FOR THIS EXACT REASON SO THAT NO ONE CAN HIT REPLY ALL AND ACCIDENTALLY CREATE A QUORUM. AND THEN SOME OTHER EXAMPLES WOULD BE LIKE, UM, THE- THE- THERE- THERE'S AN EXAMPLE, THE- THE SORT OF SEMINAL CASE COMES FROM A CITY, UM, NEAR SAN ANTONIO WHERE THE MAYOR AND THE CITY MANAGER WERE IN THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE AND COUNCIL MEMBER A WOULD COME IN AND THE THREE OF THEM WOULD DISCUSS AND THEN THEY'D SEND THAT COUNCIL MEMBER AWAY. THEY'D BRING IN THE NEXT COUNCIL MEMBER AND THEY'D MAKE THE DECISIONS IN THE BACK ROOM, THEN THEY'D GO TO THE HORSESHOE AND VOTE. AND SO THAT'S WHAT THE LEGISLATURE WAS TRYING TO PROHIBIT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UM, SO THE NOTICE REQUIREMENTS, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND HERE A WHILE, YOU MAY HAVE REMEMBERED THE 72-HOUR RULE THAT USED TO BE THE RULE. UM, LAST SESSION IN 2025, THE LEGISLATURE CHANGED THAT TO THREE BUSINESS DAYS. SO NOTICE MUST BE POSTED THREE BUSINESS DAYS PRIOR. THAT DOESN'T REALLY AFFECT YOU ALL BECAUSE UNDER YOUR RULES, YOU HAVE THE SEVEN, THE WEEK LONG REQUIREMENT AND A WEEK IS ALWAYS MORE THAN THREE BUSINESS DAYS. SO IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A PRACTICAL IMPACT ON YOU ALL, BUT JUST TO NOTE, IT RECENTLY CHANGED FROM 72 HOURS TO THREE BUSINESS DAYS. AND SO THE NOTICE JUST MUST SAY, YOU KNOW, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WILL BE MEETING IN ROOM X AT 9:00 FOR THE BRIEFING, ONE O'CLOCK FOR YOUR PUBLIC MEETING, AND WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS A, B, C, AND D. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. VIDEO CONFERENCING. Y'ALL'S RULES, REMIND ME, CHAIRMAN, YOUR RULES DO NOT ALLOW VIDEO CONFERENCING. OR DO - YEAH, AS LONG AS THEY'RE SEEN, LIKE MS. UH - OKAY, OKAY. MS. GARDNER'S ON. OKAY. SO YES. SO TOMA ALLOW - SAYS THAT CITIES MAY ALLOW FOR VIDEO CONFERENCING. CURRENTLY, THE BOARD DOES. AND AS CHAIRMAN NOTED, UM, THOMA SAYS IF YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW VIDEO CONFERENCING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR CAMERA ON SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN SEE THE, THE PERSON ONLINE. THE PRESIDING OFFICER MUST BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT AT THE ROOM THAT YOU'VE NOTICED. SO IF YOU HAVE... THE CHAIR MUST BE AT WHATEVER ROOM HERE IN CITY HALL THAT, UM, THE MEETING IS OCCURRING. IF YOUR CAMERA GOES OUT FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU'RE, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE NOT HERE. YOU CAN'T VOTE JUST BASED ON, UM, BEING ABLE TO HEAR SOMEONE. SO, AND THIS APPLIES FOR THE PUBLIC AS WELL. IF ANYONE'S GOING TO, ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC'S GONNA BE, UM, VIRTUAL, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE AND HEAR THEM AS WELL. NEXT SLIDE. AND THEN OPEN MICROPHONE SPEAKERS. THIS IS MOSTLY FOR THE, THE FOLKS THERE AT THE VERY BEGINNING ON THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, NOT FOR THE PEOPLE SPEAKING AT THE PUBLIC HEARING BECAUSE THE PUBLIC HEARING IS SORT OF UNIQUE COMPARED TO MOST OTHER BOARDS OR COMMISSIONS. UM, BUT THOSE FOLKS THERE AT THE BEGINNING, THEY HAVE TO, UM, SPEAK ON WHATEVER SPECIFIC THING THERE'S LIKE... THEY CAN'T SPEAK ON ANYTHING, RIGHT? THEY HAVE TO BE SPEAKING ON AN AGENDA ITEM. TYPICALLY, EVERYONE JUST SPEAKS DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, SO IT'S DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE SENSE FOR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BUT, UM, THAT, THAT'S THE INTENT THERE. AND THEN RESPONSES DURING THAT PORTION, IF ANY, ARE JUST SPECIFIC INFORMATION OR RECITALS OF EXISTING POLICY. AND THEN THE BOARD'S RULES... OR I GUESS N - THE CITY CODE, UH, CHAPTER EIGHT ALLOWS BOARD MEMBERS TO PLACE AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA FOR A SUBSEQUENT MEETING. THAT DOESN'T REALLY HAPPEN AT BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. IT HAPPENS AT SOME OTHER, UH, BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THEN JUST SOME OTHER GENERAL, UM, HODGEPODGE RULES. UH, ADJOURNMENT IS A MAGIC WORD. ONCE YOU HAVE ADJOURNED, YOU HAVE ADJOURNED. THAT'S THE END OF THE MEETING. YOU CAN RECESS ALL YOU WANT, BUT ADJOURNMENT IS A MAGIC WORD. THAT MEANS THE, THE MEETING IS OVER. YOU HAVE TO VOTE IN PUBLIC. YOU CAN'T LISTEN TO ALL THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND DEBATE AND THEN GO DECIDE IN A BACK ROOM. YOU HAVE TO DO IT IN PUBLIC BECAUSE THE IDEA HERE IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS, OR SORRY, THAT THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO WATCH ITS GOVERNMENT IN ACTION. THERE'S NO SECRET BALLOTS. IF, UM, AN ITEM IS FORGOT TO BE POSTED OR IF THERE'S SOME KIND OF ISSUE WITH THE NOTICE OR WITH THE AGENDA LANGUAGE, LIKE IT... I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A GOOD EXAMPLE. UM, IT HAS THE WRONG... SQUARE FOOTAGE. NOT EVEN... NO, NO. I MEAN, LIKE IT HAS... INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, A PROPERTY AT 101 MAIN STREET, IT SHOULD HAVE SAID 101 FIRST STREET OR WHATEVER, JUST LIKE SOME OTHER, JUST TOTALLY [06:35:01] WRONG. UM, WE CAN'T CONSIDER IT. AND SO IT'S JUST GOT TO PUT IT ON FOR THE, FOR THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM OR FOR THE NEXT, UM, MONTH'S MEETING FOR THE NEXT AGENDA. NEXT SLIDE. AND THEN CLOSED MEETINGS. I KNOW YOU GUYS TYPICALLY DON'T GO INTO CLOSED MEETINGS, BUT WHEN YOU DO, IT'S USUALLY FOR THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT, UM, REASON. AND SO WHEN YOU GO... THOMAS SAYS THAT WHEN YOU'RE GOING INTO A CLOSED MEETING FIRST, YOU HAVE TO START AN OPEN MEETING, SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE A QUORUM AND YOU HAVE TO ANNOUNCE THAT WE'RE GOING INTO CLOSED MEETING. YOU HAVE TO SAY THE REASON YOU'RE GOING INTO A CLOSED MEETING AND GO IN... CHAPTER EIGHT SAYS THAT WHEN YOU'RE IN A CLOSED MEETING, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A VIDEO RECORDING OF YOUR CLOSED MEETING BECAUSE THOMAS SAYS YOU EITHER NEED A CERTIFIED AGENDA OR A VIDEO RECORDING. CITY COUNCIL SAYS FOR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, IT'S GOT TO BE THE VIDEO RECORDING. AND THAT IS PROTECTED BY LAW UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. NO ONE CAN LISTEN TO THAT EXCEPT A COURT ORDER AND EVEN THEN ONLY THE JUDGE CAN LISTEN TO IT AND IT'S JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT NOTHING NEFARIOUS WAS GOING ON IN THE CLOSED MEETING. AND THEN THIS MAY SURPRISE YOU, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING INTO A CLOSED MEETING FOR THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE, YOUR LAWYER MUST BE THERE. THAT IS AN ACTUAL CASE WHERE YOU GOT TO HAVE YOUR LAWYER THERE TO GET ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. YOU GOT TO HAVE YOUR LAWYER THERE TO GO IN FOR THE LAWYER, UM, REASON. NEXT SLIDE. AND THEN WHO CAN ATTEND? IT'S, UM, SO LIKE I MENTIONED, IF YOU'RE GOING IN FOR THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE, YOU GOT TO HAVE A LAWYER THERE. AND THEN ANYONE ELSE WHO IS NECESSARY TO EFFECTUATE THE CLOSED MEETING IS ALLOWED. SO IF YOU NEED A SPECIFIC PERSON THERE, THEY CAN ALSO GO INTO THAT CLOSED MEETING. AND OF COURSE, THE, THE BOARD MEMBERS GO INTO THE, TO THE CLOSED MEETING. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THEN RECORD KEEPING. UH, THOMA SAYS YOU GOTTA KEEP A RECORD OF YOUR MEETINGS. THAT'S WHY YOU GUYS APPROVE MINUTES AT THE START OF EACH MEETING. IF YOU EVER WONDERED WHY YOU'RE ACTUALLY DOING THAT, IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF RECORD OF WHAT YOU DECIDED. AND SO IT JUST SAYS YOU'VE GOTTA... THIS IS WHAT WE DECIDED, THIS WAS THE VOTE, THOSE KINDS OF, UH, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THEN NEXT SLIDE. ANY QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. MOORE, A BOARD EMERITUS ATTORNEY ON TOMA OPEN MEETINGS? THANK YOU, DANIEL. MUCH APPRECIATED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, KAITLYN. UH, NEXT, UH, SECTION, [IX. Action Items] LAST SECTION OF OUR MEETING IS ACTION ITEMS. UM, IN THE BOARD PACKAGE THAT WAS SENT OUT A WEEK AGO... THANK YOU AGAIN, MATT, DANIEL, AND TERESA AND CAITLIN, UH, WERE ACCOMPLISHMENTS, GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, RECOMMENDATIONS, ANNUAL REPORT AND CALENDAR. SO I'M GONNA GO THROUGH THIS QUICKLY, BUT I'M NOT GONNA CUT OFF ANYONE THAT HAS QUESTIONS. OKAY. ACCOMPLISHMENTS. ON PAGE 187, AND KAMIKA'S GONNA LOAD, EXCUSE ME, THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR'S GONNA LOAD THIS SO IT'S ON YOUR SCREEN. UM, IN GREEN AND RED WERE ACCOMPLISHMENTS AGAINST LAST YEAR'S GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. UH, AND THE PHILOSOPHICAL GOAL OF FAIRNESS, TRANSPARENT, TIMELY WAS EXCELLENT. UH, YOU'RE STILL LOADING. OKAY. OKAY. SO CLICK UP ONE. UH, THE SECOND GOAL HAD TO DO WITH ATTENDANCE OF MEETINGS. THIS, I, I HATE TO SAY, GUYS, WE, WE DID NOT DO WELL IN. UH, ONLY 84% OF OUR MEETINGS, WE HAD FIVE OF FIVE MEMBERS, AND WE ACTUALLY HAD TO CANCEL THREE HEARINGS BECAUSE THE LACK OF QUORUM. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT IF YOU AS A BOARD MEMBER CANNOT MAKE A MEETING THAT WE'VE ALREADY CALENDARED, THAT YOU LET ME KNOW AS FAR IN ADVANCE AS POSSIBLE SO I CAN GET ONE OF OUR SIX ALTERNATES TO ATTEND. AND IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT WE HAVE FIVE OF FIVE PEOPLE AT PANEL HEARINGS. SO TH- THIS GOES HAND IN HAND. UH, NUMBER THREE, UH, KUDOS, KUDOS TO THE STAFF AND THE BOARD. UH, THEY ACHIEVED A HEARING, UH, APPLICATION HEARING OF 54 DAYS. AGAIN, THAT'S DOWN FROM 93 SEVERAL YEARS AGO. KUDOS. KEEP GOING. PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS. THEY'VE SUC - THE STAFF HAS SUCCE- SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED DALLAS NOW. A LOT OF THE CONVERSATIONS CAME UP TODAY ABOUT THE OLD MANUAL, UH, APPLICATION AND THE FEEDBACK FROM THAT. WE'RE GONNA GET SOME FURTHER CLARITY ON THE APPLICATIONS FOR TIMETABLES AND OWNERS INVOLVED. UM, WE, UH, WE'RE... WE ENCOURAGE THE BOARD, THE STAFF TO CONTINUE TO HELP THE [06:40:01] APPLICANTS, YET THE BURDEN REMAINS ON THE APPLICANT. UM, A SURVEY THAT WAS REQUESTED LAST YEAR SPECIFIC TO THE BOARD WAS NOT TAKEN, BUT IS GONNA BE ANTICIPATED THIS NEXT YEAR. UH, STAFF'S CO - NUMBER FIVE, STAFF'S COMPREHENSIVE TECHNICAL ANALYSIS HAS GREATLY IMPROVED AND CONTINUES TO TALK ABOUT THE 360 CAMERA. UM, THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS COLOR VARIATIONS OF BY RIGHT VERSUS BY REQUEST TO BE AS MUCH AVAILABLE DURING THE BRIEFING AND ALSO DURING THE HEARING, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT READILY AVAILABLE IN ADVANCE OF A HEARING. UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, WILL HELP US SEE THE PROPERTY AS TO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO VERSUS WHAT THEY CAN DO AND HAVE THAT AVAILABLE ACTUALLY DURING THE HEARING TOO. BUT SOMETIMES IT'S IN THE STAFF'S POWERPOINT, WHICH IS ALL GOOD AND WELL IN THE MORNING, BUT THEN WHEN WE ACTUALLY SEE THE APPLICANT, WE GO, "OKAY, NOW WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANTED?" BUT AGAIN, THE BURDEN REMAINS WITH THE APPLICANT. SIX, WEBSITE IMPROVEMENTS, ABSOLUTE PHENOMENAL. THE PROCESS, THE C - PENDING CASE FILE AND FLOWCHART AND VIDEO SYNCING, UH, TRAINING. UM, WE'VE DONE SEVERAL NEW, NEW, UM, APPOINTEE TRAINING, UM, UM, APPLICATIONS. YOU ALL PARTICIPATED IN THE, THE ONLINE COURSE TRAINING THAT'S TO BEING DEVELOPED. SO, UM, ON THE WHOLE, I THINK WE'VE MADE VERY GOOD PROGRESS THIS LAST YEAR. THE CHAIRMAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS ON OUR 25, 26 GOALS. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. FINNEY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. SECONDED BY MR. QUINT. WE NEED TO DO ROLL CALL. WE NEED TO DO A ROLL CALL VOTE, CORRECT? YES, I THINK WE SHOULD. OKAY. SO WE HAVE MS. GARNER STILL ONLINE, UM, AND THE MEMBERS HERE. SO GO AHEAD AND CALL THE, THE VOTE. THIS IS FOR APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED ACCOMPLISHMENTS ON OUR 25, 26 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. ONE OTHER EDITORIAL COMMENT. THIS IS REQUIRED BY THE CODE. CHAPTER EIGHT SAYS EACH BOARD AND COMMISSION SHOULD REPORT TO THE COUNCIL ON THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, ON THEIR GOALS, ON THEIR REC- RECOMMENDATIONS AND, UM, ATTENDANCE AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE STEPS WHICH IS REQUIRED. MS. BOARD SECRETARY. MR. DORN. AYE. MS... DR. GLOVER? MR. FINNEY. AYE. MS. GARDNER? AYE. UH, MR. SLADE. AYE. MR. QUINT? AYE. MR. GRAHAM. AYE. MR. HOPKOVITZ. AYE. MR. ROGERS. AYE. MR. CHAIRMAN. AYE. MOTION. MOTION TO APPROVE PASSES. OH, MR. SASHINGTON'S WITH US. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. MR. SASHINGTON. AYE. THANK YOU. CHAIR? YES, MR. CAMPBELL. I WAS MISSED ON THE ROLL CALL. OH. YOU MISSED MR. CAMPBELL? I APOLOGIZE, MR. CAMPBELL. IT'S I. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS THERE FOR ATTENDANCE RECORDS AND ALL THAT. YES. NO, NO. WE JUST WENT OVER THAT. YES. UH, YOU'RE RIGHT. OKAY, SO THAT'S 13 TO ZERO. 12? ONE, TWO. UH, HAD MS. PEREZ ALREADY LEFT? OKAY. SO ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, 10 IN THE BUILDING AND TWO. SO IT'S 12. I APOLOGIZE. SO IT'S 10 PLUS TWO. IT'S 12. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THE NEXT ITEM, UM, GO AHEAD AND FLIP UP. YEAH, I'M GOT EACH ONE OF THEM. THE NEXT ITEM IS PROPOSED 26, 27 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. UM, UH, NUMBER TWO IS OF PARTICULAR NOR - IMPORTANCE IS TRYING TO GET 100% FIVE BY FIVE ATTENDANCE. AGAIN, THAT'S COMMUNICATING IN ADVANCE SO WE CAN ACCESS AND ACTIVATE ALTERNATES. NUMBER THREE IS 53 DAYS. SO THE STAFF DID 54 DAYS. SO MY, UM, STRETCH GOAL IS TO DO ONE DAY BETTER. SO 53 GOALS FOR APPLICATION TO ADJUSTMENT. UM, NUMBER FOUR IS PROCESS IMPROVEMENT AS IT RELATES TO HOPEFULLY SIMPLIFYING THE, THE 10-DAY NOTICE PERIOD THAT A LEGAL DOCUMENT THAT GOES OUT, MAYBE ADDING A QR CODE FOR ASSISTANCE, UM, AND SURVEYS. NUMBER FIVE IS COMPREHENSIVE TECHNICAL ANALYSIS AS IT RELATES TO LAND USE BY RIGHT VERSUS BY REQUESTED. UM, AND OBJECTIVE TRAFFIC DATA TO DETERMINE POTENTIAL TRAFFIC HAZARDS. NUMBER SIX IS WEBSITE IMPROVEMENTS. UM, AND NUMBER SEVEN IS ADDITIONAL REGULAR TRAINING. THE CHAIRMAN ENTERTAINING A MOTION TO ADOPT OUR 2627 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. FINNEY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND BY MR. CAMPBELL. DISCUSSION? [06:45:01] HEARING NONE, THE BOARD WILL TAKE THE VOTE. MS. WILLIAMS. MR. DORN. AYE. DR. GLOVER? AYE. MR. FINNEY. AYE. MS. GARDNER? AYE. MR. SASHINGTON. AYE. MR. SLADE. AYE. MR. CAMPBELL. MR. QUINN? AYE. MR. GRAHAM. AYE. MR. HOPKOVITZ. AYE. MR. ROGERS. AYE. MR. CHAIRMAN. AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES 12 TO ZERO. THANK YOU. UM, THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, AND THEY'RE ON PAGE 224. UM, THIS IS A SLIGHT VARIATION FROM THE PREVIOUS RECOMMENDATIONS. THIS IS ONE, TO CONTINUE TO RAISE AWARENESS, UH, TO THE COUNCIL A- ABOUT OUR QUASI-JUDICIAL FORMAT, UH, RELATING TO, UM, TIMELINESS, ACCURACY, TRANSPARENCY, AND FAIRNESS. IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL GOAL. THE SECOND IS TO ASK THE COUNCIL TO QUICKLY, UM, UH, APPOINT FOR VACANCIES. WE HAVE THREE VACANCIES RIGHT NOW, ONE ON PANEL A, ONE ON PANEL B, AND ONE ON PANEL C, AND ANY VACANCIES THAT COME UP BECAUSE THE FIVE BY FIVE, UH, UP HEARINGS ARE SO VERY IMPORTANT. AND THE LAST IS TO CONTINUE WHAT I CALL OVERSIGHT OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT. UM, JUST TO KEEP THEM IN THE LOOP, I THINK THE PERMITTING PROCESS HAS COME A LONG WAY, UH, BUT I THINK WE, AS A BOARD, STILL WANT TO, TO SAY PHILOSOPHICALLY TO THE COUNCIL, WE NEED TO CONTINUE OVERSIGHT. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADOPT. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT. MR. FINNEY MOVES TO APPROVE. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. SECONDED BY MR. QUINT. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING NO DISCUSSION, I WILL CALL THE VOTE. MS. WILLIAMS. MR. DORN. AYE. DR. GLOVER. AYE. MR. FINNEY? AYE. MS. GARDNER? AYE. MR. SASHINGTON? AYE. MR. SLADE? AYE. MR. CAMPBELL? AYE. MR. QUINT? AYE. MR. GRAHAM? AYE. MR. HOPKOVITZ? AYE. MR. ROGERS? AYE. MR. CHAIRMAN? AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES 12 TO ZERO. TWO MORE TRANSACTIONS. SO WE'VE NOW ADOPTED OUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, UH, OUR GOALS, AND OUR RECOMMENDATIONS. THAT FORMULATES WHAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR HAND AS IT RELATES TO THE ANNUAL REPORT. SO NOW THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADOPT OUR 2025 / 26 ANNUAL REPORT. I ENTER FINNEY AND MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT. MS. GARNER, MOVE TO APPROVE. ARE YOU SECONDING IT? I SECOND. IT'S BEEN MOVED TO APPROVE BY MS. GARNER, SECONDED BY MR. FINNEY. DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION. MR. SLADE. BRIEF DISCUSSION. UH, I UNDERSTAND, CHAIR NEWMAN, THAT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CHANGE AS OF TODAY TO THE MEMBER LISTING AND THE ROSTER THAT'S IN THE ANNUAL REPORT. UH, THE MEMBER LISTING IS HIS, IS HISTORICAL, NOT PERSPECTIVE. NEVERMIND. UH, TO HIS POINT, MR. MILLIKEN ON PANEL C RESIGNED OVER THE WEEKEND, UM, BUT THIS IS A REPORT THAT RELATES THROUGH THIS SEPTEMBER 30TH OF 2026. I KNOW WE'RE DEALING WITH IT NOW, BUT IT'S FOR THE PREVIOUS FISCAL YEAR. IS THAT, IS THAT CLARIFIED? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MS. GARNER AND SECONDED BY MR. FINNEY. DISCUSSION ON THE ANNUAL REPORT ADOPTION. WHAT'LL HAPPEN IS IF, WHEN THE BOARD APPROVES THIS, I'LL WRITE A COVER LETTER AND I'LL SEND THIS TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE CITY SECRETARIAL STAMP, AND THAT MAKES IT OFFICIAL. OKAY. GO AHEAD AND CALL THE VOTE. OKAY. MR. DORN? AYE. DR. GLOVER. AYE. MR. FINNEY? AYE. MS. GARDNER. AYE. MR. SASHINGTON. AYE. MR. SLADE? AYE. MR. CAMPBELL? AYE. MR. QUINN? AYE. MR. GRAHAM? AYE. MR. HOPKOVITZ? AYE. MR. ROGERS? MR. CHAIRMAN? AYE. MOTION TO GRANT PASSES 1220. UH, LAST ITEM OF, ON OUR ACTION ITEMS IS THE ADOPTION OF OUR MEETING CALENDAR FOR 2027. IT'S COLOR CODED. IT'S THE LAST PAGE IN YOUR, UM, IT'S NOT IN YOUR, UM, PACKET BECAUSE THAT'S HISTORICAL, BUT IT'S THE LAST PAGE IN THE DOCKET, PAGE 225. IT'S ON YOUR SCREEN NOW. THIS IS A REPLICA CALENDAR AS IN 26. THE DIFFERENCE IS TWOFOLD, ONEFOLD. WE MOVE THE MEETINGS IN MARCH TO THE THIRD, TO THE WEEK OF THE 22ND INSTEAD OF THE WEEK OF THE 15TH OUT OF CONSIDERATION FOR SPRING BREAK. UM, PAN- PANEL C STILL MEETS ON MONDAYS. PANEL A ON TUESDAYS. [06:50:01] PANEL B ON WEDNESDAYS. THAT IS CHANGED FOR JANUARY AND FEBRUARY BECAUSE OF HOLIDAYS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE HISTORICALLY, HISTORICALLY THERE. THIS INCLUDES A FULL BOARD MEETING ON THE 26TH OF OCTOBER. THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADOPT THE MEETING CALENDAR FOR 2027. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT. MOVE TO APPROVE. SECOND. OKAY. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. FINNEY. SECOND. SECONDED BY MS. BY MS. GARNER. DISCUSSION ON THE MEETING CALENDAR. HEARING NONE, THE, THE, THE CHAIR WILL, WILL, WILL CALL THE VOTE. MS. WILLIAMS. MR. DORN. AYE. DR. GLOVER. AYE. MR. FINNEY. AYE. MS. GARDNER. AYE. MR. SASHINGTON? AYE. MR. SLADE. AYE. MR. CAMPBELL. MR. QUINN? AYE. MR. GRAHAM. AYE. MR. HOPKOVITZ. AYE. MR. ROGERS. MR. CHAIRMAN. AYE. MOTION TO APPROVE PASSES 12 TO ZERO. BOARD MEMBERS, THAT CONCLUDES OUR AGENDA FOR TODAY. UH, MY APOLOGIES FOR RUNNING A LITTLE LONG. I, IT IS, IT IS THE HOPE OF THE CHAIRMAN AND THE BOARD ADMINISTRATOR AND THE BOARD ATTORNEY AND BOARD SECRETARY THAT THIS WAS PUT TOGETHER FOR TRAINING AND ALSO BUSINESS. UH, I THOUGHT THE STAFF DID A VERY GOOD JOB, AND I'M A HARD, HARD PRESS. YOU CAN ALL SMILE ABOUT THAT, BUT I, I'M VERY PLEASED. UM, AND, UM, WITH THAT, UM, THE CHAIR WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVED. IT'S BEEN MOVED BY MR. CAMPBELL. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. I SECOND. SECONDED BY DR. GLOVER. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS ADJOURNED AT 4:35 PM ON THE 3RD OF NOVEMBER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.