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[00:00:02]

GOOD

[Permit and License Appeal Board on June 1, 2023]

MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

WELCOME TO THE HEARING OF THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD FOR THE CITY OF DALLAS.

IT IS NOW 8 36 ON THURSDAY, JUNE 1ST, WE HAVE ONE HEARING ON TODAY'S AGENDA FOR LAZY ACRES CIRCLE HOLDING LP APPEALING NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.

UH, AT THIS TIME, I'LL DO A ROLL CALL.

AND IF PRESENT, UH, PLEASE SAY HERE.

UH, MS. ARIANO.

HERE.

TOK.

MS. WILLIS? HERE.

MS. TORRES? HERE.

MR. CIA? HERE.

JEFF.

HERE.

MR. HAYES? HERE.

MR. QUINT? HERE.

MS. SHIN HERE.

UH, SO, UH, ABSENT FROM TODAY'S MEETING IS ONLY, UH, MS. A, WE HAVE A DEC QUORUM, AND THE MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER.

UH, AND WILL THE OTHERS PRESENT AT TODAY'S HEARING? PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, STARTING WITH THE BOARD'S GENERAL COUNSEL.

CASEY CHARGES MATTHEW SAB, AND, UH, FROM THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.

MAYOR SLAVA MARTINEZ, DONNA BROWN, ASHLEY DELAROSA.

THANK YOU.

AND FOR THE, UH, APPELLANT.

AND, UH, WHAT WITNESSES DO YOU HAVE, UH, WITH YOU TODAY? MILD.

NOW, COULD YOU ASK HIM TO TURN HIS MIC ON, PLEASE? OKAY.

YOU NEED, YOU NEED TO GET IT PROBABLY IN YOUR MOUTH, A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE MIC.

OKAY.

CARDO BYRON WILLIE, REPRESENTING THE APPELLANT.

UH, JOINED WITH ME IS, UH, I WITNESS, UH, MR. MICHAEL LEONARD, UH, SITTING TO MY RIGHT.

HE'S THE VICE PRESIDENT OF SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT, WHICH IS THE, UH, PRINCIPAL, UH, MANAGEMENT COMPANY FOR, UH, THE OWNER.

UH, AND TO HIS RIGHT IS MR. EDDIE GALL GALLAS, UH, WHO IS THE APARTMENT MANAGE MANAGER, AND, UH, FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

CHARLOTTE O'REILLY WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

I'M DETECTIVE NICK ST.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I'M SORRY, DETECTIVE STOLAR.

THANK YOU.

AND, UH, JUST A REMINDER, I THINK EVERYBODY'S GOT THEIR VIDEO ON RIGHT NOW, BUT IF YOU ARE REMOTE, UH, IF YOU'RE A BOARD MEMBER, YOU MUST KEEP YOUR VIDEO ON.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, IF YOU ARE A WITNESS OR A PARTICIPANT, UM, YOU'LL NEED TO HAVE YOUR VIDEO AND AUDIO ON WHENEVER ADDRESSING THE BOARD.

UM, NOW IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD, HOWEVER, NO SPEAKERS HAVE REGISTERED TO ADDRESS THE BOARD TODAY.

ITEM NUMBER TWO, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES, OUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESSES TO REVIEW AND APPROVE THE MEETING.

MINUTES FROM MAY 4TH, 2023 MEETING.

IS THERE A MOTION REGARDING APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FOR MAY 4TH, 2023? I MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF MAY.

I'M SORRY, I WASN'T LOOKING WHO SAID THAT? ROBERT QUINN.

UH, MR. QUINN? YES.

THANK YOU.

AND IS THERE A SECOND? BELIEVE THE SECOND.

MR. GEIS, UH, ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? DOES ANY BOARD MEMBER WISH TO COMMENT ON THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MAY 4TH MEETING? NO DISCUSSION.

WE WILL TAKE A VOTE.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR THE MAY 4TH MEETING.

UH, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

ALL THOSE OPPOSED, PLEASE SAY NAY.

UH, THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

THE NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS IS THE APPEAL REQUEST OF LAZY ACRE CIRCLE HOLDING LP APPEALING THE NOTICE OF FINAL DETERMINATION AS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY UNDER SECTION 27 DASH 51 OF THE DALLAS CITY CODE.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPELLANT.

UM, AND AT THIS TIME, ANY WITNESSES WHO WISH TO TESTIFY

[00:05:01]

IN THE HEARING WILL BE SWORN IN BY THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE.

UH, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

UH, SO YOU MAY BE SWORN.

DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THE TESTIMONY YOU WILL GIVE BEFORE THIS BOARD TODAY WILL BE THE TRUTH? THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

UH, AS THE TIME LIMIT FOR THE PRESENTATION, WILL, WOULD 30 MINUTES BE SUFFICIENT FOR EACH SIDE PLUS OPENING AND CLOSING? UH, 30 MINUTES IN ADDITION TO OPENING AND CLOSING YES.

WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE FELLOW? YES.

OKAY.

YES.

THANK YOU.

ALL 30 MINUTES.

ALL RIGHT.

AND WE HAVE ALL OF THE EXHIBITS FOR, UH, THE, THE APPELLANT, MR. WOOLEY, WE'VE GOT 20 EXHIBITS.

DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? YES.

AND FOR THE CITY, WE'VE GOT ONE EXHIBIT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

OKAY.

UM, SO THOSE EXHIBITS HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO EVIDENCE.

AND, UH, MR. BURGESS, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UH, READ THE RELEVANT ORDINANCE? SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SECTIONS OF THE CODE, UH, FOR YOU, FOR YOU GUYS TODAY.

FIRST IS SECTION 27 48, SUBSECTIONS A AND C.

SO, SUBSECTION A IS A PROPERTY'S PRESUMED A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY THAT THE PROPERTY IS THE SITE, ONE OF FIVE OR MORE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES WITHIN 365 DAYS, RESULTING IN EITHER A REPORT OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY DOCUMENTING AN INVESTIGATION OF AN AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY OR ENFORCEMENT ACTION AGAINST ANY PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY.

AND TWO, AT WHICH PERSONS HAVE HISTORICALLY COMMITTED AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ACCORDING TO RECENT CRIME DATA.

AND THEN C AS AN OWNER OF HABITUAL OR, UH, CRIMINAL PROPERTY IS PRESUMED TO HAVE KNOWINGLY TOLERATED THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT THE OWNER'S PROPERTY BY FILLING AND TAKE REASONABLE STEPS, INCLUDING THOSE OUTLINED IN SECTION 27 49 TO ABATE THE AB DEBATABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OR CODE VIOLATIONS.

AND THEN THE SECOND SECTION, UH, FOR YOU GUYS TODAY IS SECTION 27 51 C AND SAYS, IN DECIDING THE APPEAL, THE PERMIT AND LICENSE APPEAL BOARD IS LIMITED TO THE ISSUES OF WHETHER THE PRESUMPTIONS OF SECTION 27 48.

UH, THOSE ARE THE, I JUST READ IN WHETHER THOSE ARE SATISFIED.

THANK YOU.

UM, BEGINNING WITH THE, UH, APPELLANT, WE'LL HAVE, UH, RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES FOR OPENING STATEMENT.

THANK YOU.

UH, THANK YOU, FIRST OF ALL TO THOSE MEMBERS OF, OF THE BOARD THAT ARE, ARE SERVING HERE AND, AND HELPING US THROUGH THIS, UH, PROCESS.

AND, UH, WHAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT TO YOU IS, IS AS FOLLOWING UP WITH WHAT MR. BURGESS TOLD YOU, YOU'VE GOT A JOB THAT IS FOCUSED, UH, ESSENTIALLY ON DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THE PRESUMPTION THAT, UH, THE CITY, UH, THROUGH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS MADE AS THESE CRIMES BEING AVAILABLE.

KEY WORD, PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE GO THROUGH THE EVIDENCE.

AND TWO, WHETHER OR NOT, UH, ANY VIOLATIONS WERE COMMITTED KNOWINGLY, AS MR. BURGESS POINTED OUT, SECTION 27.48 A AND C, UH, REFERENCE THOSE MATTERS.

AND THEN 27 51 SAYS, YOUR JOB IS TO DETERMINE IF THE PRESUMPTION IS SATISFIED.

NOW, I'M JUST NO COUNTRY BOY FROM WAXAHACHIE, AND I, I, I, I TRIED LAWSUITS IN THE CIVIL COURTS, AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT BURDEN OF PROOF IS.

IT IS THE CITY'S POSITION THAT IT IS OUR BURDEN OF PROOF, UM, TO PROVE TO YOU THAT THEY WEREN'T SATISFIED.

THAT'S NOT HOW I READ THE STATUTE.

BUT WE WON'T GET INTO ARGUMENTS ON SEMANTICS OR THE LEGAL THING.

WE'LL JUST GO WITH THE ASSUMPTION HERE THAT IN FACT, WE NEED TO PRESENT SOME EVIDENCE THAT IT'S ENOUGH FOR THE, UH, CITY JUST TO SAY SO.

AND THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.

THE CITY HAS SAID THIS THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.

SO LET'S LOOK TO SEE IN OUR EVIDENCE THAT WE PRESENT TO YOU AS TO WHETHER OR NOT, UH, FIRST OF ALL, THE ACTIONS WHICH IN FACT, UH, HAVE BEEN CITED TO MY CLIENT, UH, ARE AVAILABLE.

AND OF COURSE AVAILABLE IS, IS IS THE KEY ISSUE THERE.

AND THEN WHETHER OR NOT MY CLIENT, BASICALLY THE ONE WAY OF OTHER OTHERWISE SAYING IT IS FLIPPANTLY IGNORED IT AND KNOWINGLY ALLOWED IT TO, TO EXIST, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA FIND THAT THE EVIDENCE THAT WE GO

[00:10:01]

THROUGH, UH, WILL, WILL, UH, SHOW THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THAT THE PRESUMPTION IS REBUTTED ALL A PRESUMPTION.

IT IS NOT AN ABSOLUTE RULE OF LAW.

IT'S NOT STRICT LIABILITY.

A PRESUMPTION BY LAW IS SOMETHING THAT YOU START OFF WITH THE PRESUMPTION OF A FACT, AND THEN IT IS, QUOTE, REBUTTED, IF, IF IT CAN BE REBUTTED, WE WILL REBUT THOSE.

UH, POSITION TODAY IS OUR, OUR POSITION.

THE, UM, THE STATUTE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GOING UNDER PRETTY MUCH IRONICALLY, DOES NOT ADDRESS THIS IS DRAFTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.

UM, UH, AND THAT'S WHAT THE, THAT'S WHAT THE CITY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT GOES ON.

UH, IT, IT DOES NOT INDICATE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO DO ANYTHING MORE THAN JUST BASICALLY MAKE THIS ALLEGATION, AND THEN WE HAVE TO COME AND SHOW THAT WHAT WE DID.

ALTHOUGH THE CITY WILL TELL YOU THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE'VE DONE, WE'VE DOTTED EVERY I AND CROSSED EVERY T THAT THEY'VE ASKED US TO DO SINCE BRING IT TO OUR ATTENTION THAT THERE WERE ISSUES THEY WANTED US TO ADDRESS.

UH, WE'RE, WE'RE STILL GONNA BRING THAT TO YOU BECAUSE I THINK IT'S RELEVANT.

AND I, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING YOU WOULD WANNA KNOW.

I'D WANNA KNOW IF I WAS SITTING ON THE BOARD, UH, AS A CITIZEN OF DALLAS WANTING TO KNOW, UH, WHAT WAS GOING ON IS, DID MY CLIENT, UH, JUST IGNORE, UH, THIS, OR DID THEY IMMEDIATELY JUMP TO AND, AND START SAYING, OKAY, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'D LIKE US TO DO, UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE'LL DO THAT.

AND YOU'RE GONNA FIND THAT THE EVIDENCE IS GONNA PRESENT.

WE HAVE DOTTED OUR I AND CROSSED OUR TS ON EVERYTHING, AND THE ONLY THING THAT REMAINED HANGING OUT THERE IS, UH, GETTING THE CAMERAS INSTALLED.

AND THAT IS, UH, AT THE LAST MINUTE, ONCE WE HAD A CONTRACT, UH, DONE, THE, YOU'LL FIND THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THERE WAS SOME, UH, GLITCH WITH THE, UH, VENDOR, UH, LICENSE.

SO, SO WE'RE SITTING HERE WAITING ON THAT TO BE DONE.

BUT I THINK THAT'S RELEVANT, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY MAY TELL YOU IT'S NOT RELEVANT.

I THINK WHAT A PERSON DOES WHEN THEY'RE ASKED TO DO SOMETHING, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHEN THEY ARE NOTIFIED OF SUNDAY.

SO I THINK KEEP YOUR EAR PEELED.

DID THE CITY TELL US THIS? DID THE CITY INFORM US OF THESE PROBLEMS BEFORE DECEMBER 27TH, 2022 WHEN THEY SENT US A NOTICE LETTER? IT'S THEIR POSITION OF WHAT WE DID AFTER THAT DOESN'T MATTER OUR POSITION.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW WHAT WE DID.

NOW, WHAT IS MY CLIENT, UH, OTHER THAN JUST A NAME? MY CLIENT IS A LARGE APARTMENT COMPLEX.

IT IS, UH, BASICALLY BETWEEN COIT ROAD AND, UH, CENTRAL EXPRESSWAY, UH, AROUND SPRING VALLEY.

THAT GETS YOU SOME, UH, DYNAMICS OF THE GEOGRAPHY.

IT CONSISTS OF 243 UNITS IN 27 BUILDINGS.

UH, IT'S AN, IT IS AN OLDER PROPERTY, UH, AND IT SERVES, UH, THE, UH, SOMEWHAT LOW INCOME TO FLOW TO LOWER MIDDLE INCOME POPULACE, UH, AS, AS, AS THEIR HOUSING.

IT IS IN AN AREA AS WE UNDERSTAND IT, THAT HAS CRIMINAL PROBLEMS. AND I DON'T THINK THE CITY WILL DENY THAT THE WHOLE AREA HAS, UH, MAYBE SOME, SOME ISSUES THAT, UH, WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO, TO HAVE BETTER, UH, DONE.

UH, LASTLY, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT, UH, AS, AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, UH, OUR COMMENTS AND OUR TESTIMONY IS NOT A CRITICISM OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I THINK THEY'RE UNDERFUNDED, THEY'RE UNDERLOVED, THEY'RE, THEY'RE OVERWORKED.

I'VE GOT FRIENDS IN THE DEPARTMENT, AND, UH, THEY'RE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN, BUT OBVIOUSLY, UH, THEY CAN ONLY BE SOME OF THE PLACES AT ONE TIME.

SO THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.

THE BIGGER ISSUE IS HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY, UH, IS TO BE PUT ON IN THIS INSTANCE, MY CLIENT IN ANY BUSINESS IN, UM, IN, IN TAKING THE LABORING ORE OF, UM, EVADING CRIME IN, IN THE CITY.

AND I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD AGREE THAT'S TYPICALLY GONNA BE THE, UH, LAW ENFORCEMENT, USUALLY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY.

THANK YOU.

THAT'S YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. RILEY, DO YOU WANT, UH, OPENING STATEMENT? YES, BRIEFLY.

THANK YOU.

RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES.

THANK YOU CHAIR, AND THANK YOU MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.

UM, TODAY, I EXPECT THAT YOU'LL HEAR VARIOUS REASONS WHY THOSE POTENTIAL C PROPERTY DESIGNATION SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED AT 83 78 GREEN VALLEY ROAD.

UM, MR. LEY REPRESENTED THAT HIS CLIENT HAS IMPLEMENTED VARIOUS SAINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE LETTER.

ULTIMATELY, THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING REASONABLE CRIMINAL PREVENTION MEASURES ON THEIR PROPERTY, NOT IN RESPONSE TO THE CITY, LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO DO SO.

BUT IN RESPONSE TO THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT'S OCCURRING ON THE PROPERTY, UM, THE INITIAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY DESIGNATION WAS NOTICED IN DECEMBER OF 2022.

AND, UH, I THINK THAT THEY WILL SHOW THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED VARIOUS MEASURES AFTER THAT.

BUT REALLY, YOUR DETERMINATION RELIES ON WHAT REASONABLE MEASURES THEY HAD BEFORE THE NOTIFICATION OF EVIDENTIAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.

THE CITY'S PRESENTATION OF THE EVIDENCE WILL SHOW

[00:15:01]

THAT THE PROPERTY DID WAS THE SITE OF FIVE OF MORE AVAILABLE OFFENSES.

IN FACT, THERE WERE EVIDENCE WILL SHOW THAT THERE WERE DOUBLE THAT AMOUNT OF OFFENSES AND A 365 DAY PERIOD, AND THAT THE OWNER FAILED TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO DETER THE ACTIVITY DURING THAT RELEVANT TIME.

IN FACT, THERE WAS, THE SITE WAS, UM, THE LOCATION WAS THE SITE OF AN EVEN MORE VIOLENT CRIME IN THE BEGINNING PART OF 2023.

AND FURTHER ORDINANCE, AN OWNER OF HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY PURSUED TO HAVE NO KNOWINGLY TOLERATED THE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AT THE OWNER'S PROPERTY BY FAILING TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS, INCLUDING THOSE OUTLINED IN THE ORDINANCE.

AND THE ONES OUTLINED IN THE ORDINANCE ARE KIND OF JUST THE BARE MINIMUM, AND THE CITY WILL SHOW THAT NOT EVEN THOSE WERE IMPLEMENTED PRIOR TO THE NOTICE PROVIDED TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS.

AT THE TIME OF THE ACCORD MEETING, THE OWNER HAS A CHANCE TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION, AND THAT ACCORDED MEETING TOOK PLACE IN JANUARY, 2023, AND THOUGH SOME EVIDENCE WAS PRESENTED, IT WAS INSUFFICIENT TO REBUT THE PRESUMPTION THAT THE PROPERTY MEETS THE DEFINITION OF HABITAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.

IN CLOSING, THE CITY WILL SHOW THAT THE OWNER FAILED TO IMPLEMENT THE REASONABLE DURING THE, THE RELEVANT TIME, AND THEREFORE, THE HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY OR HCP DESIGNATION SHOULD REMAIN UNTIL IT'S ELIGIBLE FOR.

WE'RE NOW READY TO MOVE ON TO THE PRESENTATIONS.

AND JUST AS A, UH, POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR THOSE, UH, WHO HAVE NOT, UM, BEEN BEFORE US BEFORE, THE WAY WE'LL DO IT IS THE APPELLANT WILL MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION, UM, QUESTION YOUR WITNESSES, THEN THE CITY WILL QUESTION APPELLANT'S WITNESSES, AND THEN THE BOARD WILL QUESTION APPELLANT'S WITNESSES.

AND YOUR TIME WILL INCLUDE, UH, YOUR PRESENTATION AND YOUR QUESTIONING OF YOUR WITNESSES AND THE CITY'S WITNESSES, BUT NOT THE CITY'S QUESTIONING OR THE BOARD'S QUESTIONING OF YOUR WITNESSES.

I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR TIME.

UM, AND THEN, UH, WITH THAT, YOU'RE RECOGNIZED FOR UP TO 30 MINUTES.

THANK YOU.

UH, OUR FIRST WITNESS WOULD CALL MICHAEL LEONARD.

I'M SURE YOUR BUTTON IS PUSHED.

MR. LEONARD, WOULD YOU STATE YOUR FULL NAME? MICHAEL LEONARD.

UH, HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? I'M EMPLOYED THROUGH SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT GROUP.

AND, UH, WHAT'S SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT GROUP AND YOUR, UH, INVOLVEMENT WITH SUNRIDGE, UH, RELATIONSHIP TO THE DEFENDANT HERE? UH, THE LANDMARK APARTMENTS WE'RE A THIRD PARTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY HIRED TO MANAGE THE PROPERTY FOR THE OWNER.

OKAY.

AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN MANAGING? I HAVE BEEN IN THIS INDUSTRY FOR 22 YEARS.

OKAY.

AND, UH, WHAT'S YOUR TITLE? I'M VICE PRESIDENT OF SUN RIDGE MANAGEMENT.

OKAY.

IS, UH, THE LANDMARK APARTMENTS YOUR PRIMARY, UH, ONE OF YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITIES? YES.

OKAY.

AND HOW LONG HAS THAT BEEN? UH, I'VE, UH, SINCE JULY OF 2021.

SO DURING THE RELEVANT PERIOD OF TIME THAT'S BEFORE THIS BOARD, YOU, YOU'VE BEEN, UH, BASICALLY IN CHARGE IN, AT, AT THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY LEVEL, CORRECT? CORRECT.

AND THE INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, IS INFORMATION YOU'VE GLEANED BOTH FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND FROM WALKING THE PROPERTY AND FROM, AND TALKING TO THE APARTMENT, UH, MANAGER EDDIE DOGO TO YOUR RIGHT.

AND, AND OTHER RELEVANT PEOPLE.

IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

OKAY.

UH, ARE YOU FAMILIAR THAT, UH, A LETTER WAS RECEIVED, A NOTICE WAS RECEIVED IN DECEMBER OF 2022 FROM THE CITY OF DALLAS, ADDRESS TO LAZY ACRES HOLDING, WHICH IS THE OWNER OF LANDMARK PROPERTIES OUTLINING A CLAIM OF NOTICE OF THE BISHOP WITH CRIMINAL PROPERTY? YES.

UH, CAN WE HAVE EXHIBIT ONE, UH, BROUGHT UP? OKAY.

I'M GONNA SHOW YOU, UH, WHAT WE'VE MARKED AS EXHIBIT ONE, WHICH IS ON THE SCREEN.

UH, IS THAT THE NOTICE LETTER THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT THE CITY GAVE NOTICE, UH, TO LANDMARK? I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA REFER TO, UH, THE PROPERTY JUST AS LANDMARK.

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, CORRECT? YES.

OKAY.

IS THAT THE NOTICE OF HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY, UH, THAT WAS RECEIVED IN DECEMBER AFTER DECEMBER 27TH, 2022? YES.

OKAY.

UH, DID YOU GET A COPY OF THAT LETTER AT SOME POINT IN TIME? YES, I DID.

OKAY.

UM, IF WE COULD TURN TO PAGE TWO OF EXHIBIT ONE, PLEASE.

NOW ON PAGE TWO OF EXHIBIT ONE, UH, IT, IT HAS A, UH, A TITLE SAYS AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

SEE WHERE I'M

[00:20:01]

FOCUSING? YES.

OKAY.

IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, IT IS THE CITY'S POSITION THAT THOSE 10 ITEMS WERE AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT OCCURRED AT LANDMARK IN THE PRECEDING, UH, 365 DAYS? IS IT, I'M SORRY.

IS IT, IT'S YOUR, IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT WHAT THE, THIS NOTICE LETTER WAS DOING IS TELLING YOU THAT FROM THE CITY'S POSITION, THOSE WERE 10 AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES THAT OCCURRED? YES.

YES.

I UNDERSTAND.

OKAY.

NOW, FROM A STANDPOINT OF LOOKING AT THESE 10, WHEN WAS THE FIRST NOTICE THAT YOU MEAN YOU BEING SUNRIDGE, UH, THE OWNER LANDMARK, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR POSITION BEING IN CHARGE OF ALL OF THIS, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU WERE FAMILIAR OR EVEN AWARE THAT, UH, ANY OF THESE ACTIVITIES HAD OCCURRED? UH, THE ONE THAT OCCURRED ON DECEMBER THE EIGHTH, 2021, THE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGED.

OKAY.

SO THE VERY FIRST ONE UP THERE.

AND SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE, UH, BOARD CAN SEE ON ONLINE.

SOMETIMES THIS STUFF'S A LITTLE FUZZY ONLINE, BUT IT STATES, UH, UH, ITEM 1 12 8 21 MANSLAUGHTER.

WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD WHAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT WAS? UH, THAT WAS A SITUATION IN WHICH A RESIDENT HAD A FIREARM IN THEIR UNIT.

THE RESIDENT WAS IN THEIR UNIT.

UM, IT'S, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE CLEANING THE UNIT OR WHATNOT, BUT THE, THEY DISCHARGED THE, THE, THE FIREARM INSIDE THEIR UNIT.

UH, THE BULLET WENT THROUGH THE WALL AND STRUCK THE RESIDENT THAT LIVED IN THE UNIT NEXT DOOR.

DID THEY KILL HIM? YES, CORRECT.

NOW, YOU WERE AWARE OF THAT AT OR ABOUT THE TIME IT OCCURRED, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UH, CUZ YOU WERE INFORMED, CORRECT? CORRECT.

NOW, UM, IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WAS A, UH, INTENTIONAL ACT OR, OR JUST A, A NEGLIGENT ACT.

A NEGLIGENT ACT.

OKAY.

UM, OTHER THAN ITEM ONE, WHAT'S THE NEXT, UH, ITEM IN EXHIBIT ONE, PAGE TWO, THAT THE CITY SAYS YOU OCCURRED AND YOU KNEW ABOUT, UM, THAT YOU ACTUALLY KNEW HAD OCCURRED? I WAS NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THOSE OTHER INCIDENTS.

OKAY.

SO THERE ARE 10 OTHER ITEMS THERE THAT YOU WERE NEVER NOTIFIED ABOUT, CORRECT.

YOU NEVER HEARD ABOUT, CORRECT.

YOU BEING NOT JUST YOU MICHAEL LEONARD, BUT YOU SUNRIDGE MANAGEMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

YOU BEING ALSO THE OWNER AND, UH, DEPARTMENTS IN GENERAL, ANYBODY THAT'S WORKING THERE? CORRECT.

OKAY.

SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY TO THE BOARD THAT THE CITY NEVER NOTIFIED YOU OF THAT? CORRECT.

IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT NEVER NOTIFIED YOU ABOUT THAT? CORRECT.

OKAY.

LET'S GO BACK TO ITEM NUMBER ONE.

AB DEBATABLE.

UH, IS THE ISSUE, UH, AT ONE OF THE ISSUES HERE THAT'S BEFORE THE COURT? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT AB DEBATABLE MEANS? YES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MEANS? UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD HAVE PREVENTED FROM HAPPENING.

WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD IN YOUR, IN YOUR MOST SINCERE THOUGHT PROCESS, HOW YOU COULD HAVE AB EVADED, UH, THIS INDIVIDUAL TENANT IN A, AN APARTMENT IN THEIR APARTMENT CLEANING THEIR GUN FROM DISCHARGING THAT GUN AND HAVING THE MOST UNFORTUNATE OCCURRENCE OF KILLING THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR? WE HAVE NO WAY OF CONTROLLING THAT.

UH, TEXAS IS A OPEN CARRY STATE.

EVERYONE'S ALLOWED TO, UH, POSSESS A WEAPON INSIDE THEIR HOME.

UM, WE CANNOT MONITOR THE ACTIVITIES OF WHAT OCCURS INSIDE UNITS.

UM, THERE'S NO WAY OF, OF BEING PRESENT IN A UNIT AT 24 7 AND WATCHING WHAT TENANTS DO WE, WE, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.

SO IN YOUR TESTIMONY, IN YOUR OPINION, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS 22 YEARS, RIGHT? CORRECT.

IN YOUR OPINION, AND BOTH FACTUAL AND JUST AS A IN, IN THE BUSINESS, CAN YOU THINK OF ANY WAY THAT LANDMARK COULD HAVE ABATED STOP THIS CRIME SOMEHOW PREVENTED THIS CRIME? NONE TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO.

OKAY.

NOW, UH, LET'S LOOK AT ITEM NUMBER TWO, POSSESSION CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE.

AND I'M NOT SURE IF WHAT PEN G R P MEANS, BUT LET'S JUST ASSUME IT'S SOME ILLEGAL DRUG, UH, THAT WAS ON THE SAME DATE, IS THAT CORRECT? 12 8 21? YES.

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THAT IS? UH, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT WAS, UH, UH, AFTER THE FIREARM HAD DISCHARGED, THE POLICE WERE OUT AND INVOLVED INSIDE THE UNIT WITH OUR FIREARM WAS DISCHARGED IN, THEY FOUND A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE INSIDE THAT UNIT.

OKAY.

SO BASICALLY THE IT, FROM WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND, THAT WAS JUST A, A SIDE EVENT OF THE SHOOTING THAT OCCURRED IN THE APARTMENT WHEN THE GUN DISCHARGED, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UH, WOULD YOU TELL THE, UH, THE BOARD FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, HOW YOU BELIEVE YOU COULD HAVE ABATED, LANDMARK COULD HAVE ABATED AND STOPPED SOMEBODY FROM HAVING DRUGS IN THEIR APARTMENT? I CAN'T.

OKAY.

UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY RIGHTS UNDER YOUR, YOUR LEASE TO GO IN AND, AND KIND OF DO A, UM, A SEARCH OF EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY TO SEE IF THEY'VE GOT ANY ILLEGAL DRUGS? NO, WE DO NOT.

WHEN YOU HIRE, WHEN YOU LET

[00:25:01]

TENANTS COME IN, DO, DO YOU, UH, ENTER INTO A PARTICULAR TYPE OF LEASE THAT UH, YES WE DO.

OKAY.

IS THAT THE TAA LEASE? YES, IT IS.

AND WE'VE ACTUALLY MARKED THAT WE WON'T BURDEN THE, UH, UH, BOARD WITH THE DETAILS OF IT, BUT WE'VE ACTUALLY MARKED THAT AS STARTING A, AN EXHIBIT 15 AND GOES THROUGH EXHIBIT, UH, 18.

UH, WHAT IS TAA? TEXAS APARTMENT ASSOCIATION? I, IS IT THE STANDARD, I I'M GONNA CALL IT THE GOLD STANDARD, BUT JUST A STANDARD, UH, UH, LEASE THAT MOST DEPART COMPLEXES OF ANY SIZE USE? YES, IT IS, AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A BIG DEAL.

IT'S NOT SOME, AND WE DIDN'T GO DOWN TO THE OFFICE DEPOT AND GET A FORM, CORRECT? CORRECT.

DOES IT HAVE PROVISIONS IN THERE THAT BASICALLY, UH, WARRANTS THE TENANTS THAT IN FACT, UH, DRUGS AND OTHER CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES NOT ALLOWED ON PROPERTY? YES, IT DOES.

AND IF THEY WILL, CAN BE EVICTED FOR FROM IF THEY ARE FOUND OF YES, IT DOES.

OKAY.

AND DO, DOES, UH, LANDMARK ACTUALLY ACT ON THAT WHEN THEY ARE INFORMED THAT SOMEBODY'S GOT DRUGS OR DOING SOME CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? YES, WE DO.

OKAY.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE INFORMED, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

AGAIN, YOU CAN'T GO INTO THE UNITS AND DO A, UM, A, A SWEEP TO SEE IF ANYBODY'S GOT SOMETHING ILLEGAL IN THERE, CAN YOU? THAT IS CORRECT.

OKAY.

UM, AND LET'S GO DOWN TO NUMBER THREE THROUGH 10 ON EXHIBIT ONE.

UH, THE NEXT ONE SAYS 12 22 21, DISCHARGE OF A FIREARM IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CITY'S TALKING ABOUT THERE? I DO NOT.

HAD YOU EVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE YOU GOT THIS LETTER? NO, I HAVE NOT.

AS WE SIT HERE TODAY, DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS? NO, I DO NOT.

OKAY.

SO WE'RE NEVER, NEVER GIVEN ANY KIND OF NOTICE, CORRECT? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO.

OKAY.

UM, THE, THE FOURTH ONE SAYS POSSESSION OF A SUBSTANCE, UH, A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE WE'RE THAT WAS ON 2 3 22.

AGAIN, ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT? NO.

AND AGAIN, WHEN YOU SAY YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE, YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR THE ENTIRE APARTMENT COMPLEX, YOU AND YOUR POSITION KNOWING EVERYTHING AT THAT YOU CAN KNOW IN YOUR POSITION? THAT IS CORRECT.

OKAY.

AND THIS KIND OF INFORMATION WOULD COME TO YOU, IS THAT GENERALLY EXPECTED? YES.

OKAY.

UM, AS WE GO DOWN THE LIST, WE SEE A, AGAIN, WE HAD POSSESSION OF A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE, SO I, IF, IF WE ASSUME FOR A MOMENT THAT IS SOMEBODY IN THEIR UNIT, UM, HAVING A SMOKING A JOINT OR DOING COKE OR WHATEVER, WE DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S CORRECT.

BUT HOW WOULD YOU EVADE THAT? I CAN'T, I CAN'T, AGAIN, I CAN'T CONTROL WHAT OCCURS INSIDE A UNIT.

OKAY.

LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THE CITY WANTS TO DO HERE IS TO SLAP A BIG OLD PLACARD OUT ON YOUR PROPERTY THERE THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL, UH, PROPERTY.

HOW IS THAT GOING TO PREVENT SOMEBODY FROM BLOWING DOPE IN OR SHOOTING COKE IN THEIR, THEIR UNITS? FROM YOUR STANDPOINT, HOW WOULD THAT ABATE THAT? FROM MY STANDPOINT, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT WOULD ABATE ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

OKAY.

AND AS FAR AS A, AS A, AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, HOW WOULD YOU POLICE THAT? I CAN'T POLICE THAT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S R JOB TO POLICE THAT, CORRECT? CORRECT.

WHEN SOMEBODY, UH, TURNS SOME SOMEBODY IN OR COMPLAINS ABOUT IT, CORRECT? CORRECT.

OR YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IF, UH, SOMEBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT IT, ANOTHER TENANT COMPLAINS ABOUT IT, SO YOU CAN START EVICTION PROCEEDINGS, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

AND YOU DID NOT RECEIVE ANY SUCH COMPLAINTS TO START A CONVICTION.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHICH UNIT THAT IS.

SO YOU CERTAINLY DIDN'T GET ANY COMPLAINTS, CORRECT? CORRECT.

WE KEEP GOING DOWN THE LIST ON THIS LETTER THAT THE CITY SENT ASSAULT ON 2 8 22.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE ASSAULT WAS WITH A DEADLY WEAPON? NO, I DO NOT.

AGAIN, THAT'S NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER, EVEN IF WE SIT HERE TODAY? NO.

IT'S JUST SOMETHING THE CITY SAID HAPPENED.

CORRECT? THEY KNEW, BUT THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU, CORRECT.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR FROM ANYBODY ELSE? NO.

UH, 3 31 ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL, ANYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? NO.

7 25 CRIMINAL MISCHIEF.

DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS? NO.

NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE UNTIL THIS NOTICE LETTER, CORRECT.

AND STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS AS WE SIT HERE, CORRECT? CORRECT.

11 7 22 ASSAULT DEADLY WEAPON, DON'T KNOW.

11 12 22 ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL? NO.

DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

12, 13, 22.

ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL.

DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

SO AS YOU'RE BEFORE THIS BOARD AND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING THE BOARD TO CONSIDER WITH WHAT THE CITY IS SAYING IS THAT IT'S ONE THING FOR THE CITY TO SAY THESE THINGS HAPPEN.

LET'S JUST, I MEAN, I I DON'T THINK THE CITY'S GONNA MAKE STUFF UP.

I DON'T THINK THE POLICE DEPARTMENT COME BACK, STEP UP, DO YOU? NO.

SO WE CAN REASONABLY PRESUME FOR PURPOSES OF THIS HEARING THAT THESE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT WERE REPORTED TO THE POLICE, BUT NOBODY REPORTED THEM TO MANAGEMENT, CORRECT? CORRECT.

OR TO LANDMARK, CORRECT? CORRECT.

OR TO THE OWNER, CORRECT? CORRECT.

AND THEREFORE, SINCE IT WASN'T REPORTED TO YOU, HOW COULD YOU ACT TO EV EVA IT BEFORE NOVEMBER 20? I MEAN DECEMBER 22ND, 2022.

WE CAN NOW, FOLLOWING THIS LETTER, WE WENT TO AN ACCORD HEARING,

[00:30:01]

IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

AND WE MET WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY ATTORNEY, AND THERE WAS A LIST OF THINGS THEY ASKED US TO DO.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD TODAY OF ALL THE ITEMS THAT THEY REQUESTED BE DONE, HOW MANY THINGS DID YOU DO? UH, PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING THEY REQUESTED US TO, TO DO HAS BEEN DONE.

THEY, UH, REQUESTED THAT LIGHTING BE REPAIRED, WHICH HAS BEEN DONE.

UH, THEY REQUESTED THAT HOLES IN THE FENCE HAS BEEN BE REPAIRED, WHICH WE HAVE DONE, AND WE CONTINUE TO DO ON A DAILY BASIS DUE TO THE HOMELESS ISSUE ALONG THE CREEK THAT HAS LOCATED BEHIND THE PROPERTY.

UM, THEY ASK US TO INSTALL BLOCK LICENSE PLATE READERS, WHICH WE HAVE DONE.

THEY HAVE ASKED US TO IMPLEMENT A COURTESY, COURTESY PATROL, WHICH WE DID ON JANUARY 27TH.

UH, THEY ASKED FOR US TO HAVE A PERMIT AND TOW, UH, TOW ENFORCEMENT POLICY, WHICH WE HAD ALREADY IN PLACE PRIOR TO THAT HEARING.

UH, THEY ALSO ASKED US TO INSTALL, UH, SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY, WHICH, UH, AS MR. BYRON SAID EARLIER, WE WERE IN THE, UH, FINAL STAGES OF, UH, FINALIZING THAT AGREEMENT TO OCCUR, AND THEY REQUESTED THAT WE INSTALL ENTRY RATES, WHICH IS, UH, THEN DEEMED IPO IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE ARCHITECTURE AND DESIGN OF THE PROPERTY ALONG SPRING VALLEY AVENUE.

OKAY.

SO WHEN THE CITY GAVE LANDMARK NOTICE OF PROBLEMS, AND ONCE THE CITY SAID, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO IMPLEMENT THE FOLLOWING THINGS TO ABATE CRIME, IS YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU, THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY THE OWNER STARTED DOING IMMEDIATELY, ALL OF THOSE THINGS? THAT IS CORRECT.

AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO IT AS WE SPEAK TODAY.

THE LAST THING REMAINING IS GETTING THE CAMERA.

WHAT, WHENEVER THE VENDOR'S LICENSING I IS RESOLVED TO GET THAT THAT INSTALLED? THAT IS CORRECT.

IS IT CORRECT THAT WOULD'VE ALREADY BEEN INSTALLED HAD IT NOT BEEN WITHOUT GLITCH WITH THE LICENSING BY THE VENDOR? CORRECT.

WHICH YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT UNTIL YOU GOT DOWN TO THE POINT OF ACTUALLY GET HAVING VETTED THEM IN, IN EVERY OTHER WAY.

CORRECT.

OKAY.

NOW, UH, MR. WILLIE, YOU'VE GOT 15 MINUTES.

THANK YOU.

UM, THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS, WHICH THE, WE WERE ASKING THE, THE BOARD TO FOCUS ON IS, IS THIS IS A TWO-STEP TANGO, IF YOU WILL.

UH, THE, IT'S A PRESUMPTION THAT ONCE WE PRESENT EVIDENCE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, GIVING TESTIMONY TO THE, UH, UH, THAT YOU KNEW ABOUT IT, HAD NOTICE ABOUT IT, UH, KNEW THAT THESE HA THINGS HAPPENED.

SO THE BOARD'S NOW HEARD THAT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, WE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE ACTUAL UN VERY UNFORTUNATE SITUATION WHERE A TENANT, UH, LOST A LIFE FROM A NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR CLEANING THEIR GUN.

UM, EACH OF THESE ITEMS THAT THE CITY HAS IDENTIFIED HERE, UH, IS SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT 'EM UNTIL THEY WERE TOLD ABOUT 'EM, CAN THEY, WHAT THEY, CAN THEY CAN YOU DO TO ABATE THEM? WHAT COULD YOU HAVE DONE TO ABATE THE DISCHARGE OF A FIREARM IN CERTAIN MUNICIPALITIES, WHICH IS NUMBER THREE? I CAN'T.

OKAY.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN, CORRECT? THEY CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A GUN WALKING AROUND IN THE PARKING LOT WITH IT THESE DAYS, RIGHT? YES.

TEXAS LAW SAYS THAT, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UH, YOU'D BE FOOLISH TO GO UP AND TELL 'EM TO GIVE YOU THE GUN, CORRECT? UM, YOU CAN'T ABATE THAT, CAN YOU? NO, I CANNOT.

OKAY.

UM, HOW ABOUT ASSAULT AND ROBBERY OF AN INDIVIDUAL WHEN WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED? IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THEIR UNITS, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UM, A AGAIN, WE GO DOWN THE LIST HERE.

ONE OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS IS TO SHOW THAT YOU, THE PRESUMPTION CREATES THAT WE NEED TO TELL THE, THE BOARD INFORMATION OF THAT YOU KNOWINGLY BASICALLY IGNORED IT.

SINCE YOU ACTED UPON EVERYTHING THE CITY ASKED, ASKED YOU TO DO, IS THERE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWINGLY JUST IGNORED OR THE OWNER WOULD HAVE KNOWINGLY IGNORED, UH, TRYING TO ABATE ANY OF THESE KIND OF PROBLEMS IF THEY HAD KNOWN THAT THEY WERE THERE? NO.

HAD WE KNOWN THEY EXISTED, WE WOULD'VE PROCEEDED WITH FURTHER MEASURES YOUR TRACK RECORD AFTER THE FACT, WHICH THE CITY DOESN'T WANT US TO CONSIDER.

AND IT'S NOT THAT THE CITY'S A BAD ACTOR ON THAT, IT'S JUST THAT'S THE WAY THAT STATUTE'S DRAFTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.

BUT YOU'RE AFTER THE FACT SPEAKS AS LOUDLY, IF NOT MORE LOUDLY THAN YOUR WORDS SPEAK, THAT YOU WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, YOU ACTUALLY ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

CORRECT.

OKAY.

UM, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT PLACARD, BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR THE BOARD TO KNOW.

UH, THEY WANT YOU TO PUT UP THIS UGLY SOUND.

I CALL IT THE SCARLET LETTER.

IT WAS A CLASSICAL BOOK THAT MY ENGLISH TEACHER IN HIGH SCHOOL MADE ME READ THAT, UM, WHAT COMES TO MIND.

BUT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN 22 YEARS IN THE BUSINESS, HAVE YOU,

[00:35:01]

HAVE YOU EVER, UH, SEEN A, A PLACARD UP THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY? NO, I HAVE NOT.

WHAT, IN YOUR OPINION WOULD IT DO TO THE, UH, THE TENANTS THERE? IF THEY WALKED EVERY DAY THEY DROVE IN THAT THEY SAW THAT SIGN? UH, OVERALL IT WOULD, UH, DE DETER THEM FROM LIVING THERE.

UH, IN ADDITION, IT WOULD DE DETER TEACHER APPLICANTS FROM COMING INTO THE PROPERTY AND, AND LIVING AT THE PROPERTY.

OKAY.

IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY HURT BUSINESS.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IN YOUR, YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE BUSINESS, ANY UTILITY THAT WOULD BE FUNCTIONALLY USEFUL OTHER THAN PUNISHMENT, UH, FOR HAVING SUCH A PLACARD PLASTERED ALL OVER YOUR PLA YOUR PREMISES? NO.

OKAY.

CAN WE, UH, REASONABLY ASSUME THAT WHOEVER DREAMED UP THAT RULE NEVER, UH, MANAGED OR OWNED APARTMENT COMPLEXES WERE, UH, THE TENANTS AND THAT LIVED THEIRS, UM, LIVES AND, AND EXPERIENCES AND EXPECTATIONS WEREN'T EVEN CONSIDERED? YES, I WOULD MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION.

AND CERTAINLY NOT THE LANDLORD, THE OWNER'S, UH, BUSINESS BASED UPON HAVING TENANTS TO, UM, COME THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, CORRECT? CORRECT.

OKAY.

UH, THIS IS NOT JUST A PROBLEM WITH YOUR, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX.

IS THAT THE, THE CRIME IN THAT AREA, THAT'S, IS IT CORRECT THAT THERE'S, IN THAT GENERAL AREA, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S LIKE A LOT OF DALLAS'S THERE, IT'S CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? YES.

OKAY.

I'M GONNA JUST, UH, GO THROUGH VERY QUICKLY THE EXHIBITS SO THAT THE BOARD KNOWS, UH, WE'RE NOT JUST MAKING STATEMENTS ARE EXHIBIT FIVE.

AND YOU DON'T NEED TO PARTICULARLY BRING IT UP, BUT I WANNA ASK, SINCE IT'S IN EVIDENCE, EXHIBIT FIVE IS THE SERVICE AGREEMENT WITH WHOM? UH, THE COURT COURTESY PATROL.

OKAY.

AND THE COURTESY PATROL HAS BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE JANUARY 27TH OF THIS YEAR? CORRECT.

AND THEY MAKE, UH, MAKE, MAKE PATROLS ALL DURING THE DAY, CORRECT? CORRECT.

THEY MAKE 16 PATROLS PER DAY.

AND OUR EXHIBIT SIX IS OVER 200 PAGES OF REPORTS THAT THEY HAVE DONE SHOWING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ON THE SCENE, DAVID, CORRECT? YES.

OKAY.

AND YOU IMPLEMENTED THAT CUZ THE CITY ASKED YOU TO DO IT? CORRECT.

OKAY.

UH, WHAT ABOUT EXHIBIT SEVEN? WHAT'S EXHIBIT SEVEN? THAT IS THE FLOCK AGREEMENT, UH, TO GREEN TO INSTALL THE DRIVER'S LICENSE.

PLATE READERS.

OKAY.

SO YOU'VE ENTERED INTO THAT AND THAT'S DONE CORRECT.

OKAY.

AND THEN EXHIBIT EIGHT AND NINE WERE JUST, UH, LETTERS FROM FLOCK SAND THAT WE'VE IMPLEMENTED THAT AND GOT IT DONE, CORRECT? YES.

THAT'S CONFIRMATION THAT THE CAMERAS WERE INSTALLED.

OKAY.

WHAT ABOUT EXHIBIT 10? THAT'S A CONTRACT AGREEMENT WITH WHOM? BETWEEN SUNRIDGE AND WHO, UH, THE, UH, VENDOR TO INSTALL THE CAMERAS.

OKAY.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE STILL WORKING ON? CORRECT.

BUT YOU STARTED DOING THIS SOME TIME AGO, CORRECT? CORRECT.

OKAY.

UM, THERE IS AN EXHIBIT 11 THAT SAYS IT'S A FULL TOW LIST.

WHAT, WHAT'S THAT? THAT'S A TOW LIST THAT SHOWS, UH, ALL TOW ACTIVITY FROM JANUARY OF 2022 THROUGH DECEMBER OF 2022, SHOWN THAT WE HAVE IN FACT HAD A TOW, UH, AND PERMANENT POLICY AND, AND, AND CONTRACTING IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE NOTICE.

OKAY.

AND, UH, NUMBER EXHIBIT 12 ARE INVOICES SHOWING THAT YOU DID LIGHTING, UH, IN-HOUSE, CORRECT? CORRECT.

THAT WAS, YOU HAD TO INCUR EXPENSES FOR THAT, CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT WE SPENT ON, UH, CORRECTING, UH, FIXING THE LIGHTING ISSUES.

AND EXHIBIT 13 IS A CRIME WATCH CERTIFICATE.

IS THAT, TELL THEM THEM BRIEFLY WHAT THAT IS.

UM, OH, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I FORGOT.

THEY, THE CITY REQUESTED THAT WE DO HAVE TO DO IS ATTEND CRIME WATCH MEETINGS MONTHLY, AND THAT'S THE CERTIFICATE OF SHOWING THAT WE HAVE HOSTED THOSE MONTHLY ON THE SITE WITH THE OFFICER SIGNING OFF THAT, UM, HE HOSTED THOSE MEETINGS MONTHLY SINCE JANUARY OF THIS YEAR.

OKAY.

WE'LL PASS THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR.

BOARD CHAIRMAN.

THANK YOU, SIR.

UH, DOES THE CITY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE WITNESS? JUST A COUPLE.

UM, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, UM, CHECK MANAGEMENT PUT IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON DEPARTMENT PROPERTY? YES.

DID YOU OR ANY OF YOUR EMPLOYEES REGULARLY CHECKED ABOUT POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT RIGHT.

HAVE ANY TIME? NO.

UM, AND BELIEVE YOU DEFINED AN AB DEBATABLE CRIMINAL OFFENSE? I, I, SORRY TO INTERRUPT, MS. RILEY, COULD YOU MOVE THE MICROPHONE CLOSER TO YOUR MOUTH PLEASE? THANK YOU.

I BELIEVE YOU STATED THAT YOU THOUGHT A ANAB DEBATABLE CRIMINAL OFFENSE WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD PREVENT.

ARE YOU AWARE THAT IT'S A DEFINED TERM LEGALLY THAT IT RELATE TO OFFENSE AT ALL TIME? UH, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.

UH, YOUR DEFINITION OF AN AVAILABLE

[00:40:01]

CRIMINAL OFFENSE, YOU SAID IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN POSSESS? CORRECT.

ARE YOU AWARE THAT IT'S A LEGALLY DEFINED TERM AND THERE'S ACTUALLY A LIST OF OFFENSES THAT QUALIFIED? I'M NOT AWARE OF THE FULL LEGAL DEFINITION OF IT, NO.

AND YOU STATED THAT, UM, YOU FIXED THE LIGHTING AND HOLES IN THE FENCE AFTER YOU WERE NOTIFIED.

DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S REASONABLE THAT YOU HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED TO HOLES FROM SOMEBODY THAT'S AN ONGOING ISSUE AND THAT THAT EXISTED? EVERY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE, BIKES GO OUT, WE REPLACE THEM.

THE FENCING, AGAIN, THAT'S, LIKE I SAID, WE FIXED THAT NUMEROUS TIMES.

EVEN SINCE THE MEETING IN JANUARY, WE HAVE FIXED THAT SOMETIMES ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND THE, THE VA, THE, THE HOMELESS THAT LIVE IN ALONG THE CREEKSIDE BEHIND THE PROPERTY, CONTINUALLY CUT THROUGH THAT FENCE AND TO GAIN ACCESS THROUGH THE PROPERTY.

AND WE CONTINUE TO FIX THOSE ISSUES AS WE FIND THEM.

AND DID YOU HAVE ANY CAMERAS ON YOUR PROPERTY BEFORE DECEMBER, 2022? NO.

DID YOU HAVE ANY FAIR TO PATROL ON THE PROPERTY? NO.

THANK YOU.

UH, THANK YOU MR. RILEY.

UH, IS THAT YOUR PRESENTATION, MR. WOOEY OR DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? UM, I HAVE MR. EDDIE, UH, WAS THE APARTMENT, UH, MANAGER, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT, I'M JUST GONNA ASK HIM ONE QUICK QUESTION JUST TO CONFIRM.

I'M, I DON'T THINK HE'S GOT ANYTHING ADD, ADD TO MR. LEONARDS, BUT OTHER THAN THAT WE'LL BE DONE.

OKAY, GREAT.

CALL.

AND, AND EDDIE, HOW ? EDDIE GALLOS.

GALLOS? YES.

CALL EDDIE GALLOS.

ALL RIGHT.

YOU'VE GOT, UH, EIGHT MINUTES REMAINING.

UH, MR. GALLOS, UH, WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD WHAT YOUR POSITION IS AT LANDMARK? I'M THE PROPERTY MANAGER.

OKAY.

AND YOU HEARD MR. LEONARD'S TESTIMONY, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

AND IF, DO YOU CON CONCUR WITH HIM THAT, UH, FROM THIS NOTICE THAT WAS SENT TO THE, UH, OWNER AND TO MANAGEMENT EXHIBIT ONE, UH, DECEMBER 22, I'M SORRY, DECEMBER 27TH, 22, UH, THAT THAT'S THE FIRST TIME, UH, YOU AS APARTMENT MANAGER KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THESE, UH, ALLEGED, UH, AVAILABLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ON PAGE TWO OTHER THAN ITEM ONE AND ITEM TWO? CORRECT.

AND AGAIN, ITEM ONE WAS THE UNFORTUNATE, UH, DISCHARGE OF A RIFLE IN, UH, UH, AN AJ AND ONE OF THE TIM'S DEPARTMENTS HAD KILLED AN ADJACENT TENANT, CORRECT? YES.

ANY WAY YOU COULD HAVE EV EVADED THAT, HOWEVER, THE DEFINITION IS, WHETHER IT'S THE COMMON DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF MINIMIZED, PREVENT OR HARM OR SOME LEGAL DEFINITION, YOU KNOW, OF ANY WAY YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED THAT.

MM-HMM.

OKAY.

HOW ABOUT THE POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES? IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WAS JUST FOUND AS A SIDE, UH, PART OF THE INVESTIGATION OF THE RIFLE SHOP, CORRECT.

IN THAT TENANT DEPARTMENT? YES.

ALL THESE OTHER ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED THERE, YOU'RE THE APARTMENT MANAGER, THEY'RE THERE DAILY, CORRECT? YES.

OR MOST DAILYS EXCEPT ON YOUR DAY OFF.

AND UNLESS SOMEBODY REPORTS IT TO YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

WERE ANY OF THESE REPORTED TO YOU? NO.

DID THE CITY OF DALLAS REPORT IT TO YOU? NO.

NOW THERE'S SOME SUGGESTION THAT MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE JUMPED ON THE WEBSITE AND GONE TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND DONE A DEEP DIVE ON DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAD ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

WE, THAT WAS KIND OF THE SUGGESTION I GATHERED FROM ONE OF THE CROSS QUESTIONS FOR MS. RILEY.

UH, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE EVER TOLD TO DO? NO.

OKAY.

SO THE CITY OF DALLAS DIDN'T SAY, HEY, WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME, BUT MA'AM, WE, IF YOU GO ONLINE, YOU CAN DO THAT.

NO THANKS WITNESS.

THANK YOU MS. RILEY.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS? NO QUESTIONS.

ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL NOW PROCEED WITH, UH, BOARD QUESTIONING, UM, OF, UH, MR. LEONARD AND MR. GALLEGOS.

UM, AND, UH, JUST FOR THE RECORD, MS. AYALA DID JOIN THE MEETING, UH, DID JOIN THE HEARING.

SO, UH, ALL MEMBERS OF THE BOARD ARE PRESENT.

WE WILL BEGIN, UH, WE'LL GO IN DISTRICT ORDER, AND WE WILL START WITH THREE MINUTES OF QUESTIONINGS, BEGINNING WITH MS. ARIANO.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANTS WITNESSES? I HAVE A QUESTION HERE.

UM, HOW LONG HAS THE PROPERTY MANAGER, UM, BEEN MANAGING THE PROPERTY? TWO AND A HALF YEARS.

TWO AND A HALF YEARS.

OKAY.

AND I THINK THAT SOMEONE

[00:45:01]

STATED THAT THEY ARE, WERE JUST MADE AWARE OF ONE INSTANCE, WHICH WAS THE LAUGHTER, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UH, I WAS REVIEWING THE INCIDENT REPORTS AND AN INCIDENT TOOK PLACE.

UM, I THINK IT WAS THE BURGLARY OF THE BUSINESS.

IT WAS, AND THE ONE THAT CALLED IT IN WAS THE ASSISTANT MANAGER NA RAMOS, WHICH WAS ON FEBRUARY 1ST, 2022.

WAS THAT INCIDENT MADE AWARE TO THE MANAGER THERE? NO.

AND JUST TO CONFIRM, PRIOR TO THERE IS NO CAMERAS ON THE PROPERTY, CORRECT? THERE IS NO WHAT? CAMERAS NOT AT THE MOMENT.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

I'LL YIELD MY TIME.

THANK YOU.

UM, MS. AALA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT'S WITNESSES? NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THE MOMENT.

THANK YOU.

MS. WILLIS? YES.

WE JUST DISAPPEARED.

I'M SORRY.

YES, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

OKAY.

PROCEED.

OKAY.

SO I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THE PROPERTY CONSISTS OF MOSTLY LOW TO MODERATE INCOME RESIDENTS.

SO IS THIS A LOW INCOME TAX CREDIT PROPERTY? NO, IT IS NOT.

IT'S NOT A TAX CREDIT.

THE, THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE PROPERTY IS LOWER INCOME, MAINLY HISPANIC.

OKAY.

AND I HEARD YOU MENTION THAT YOU GUYS DO HAVE SOME SAFETY MEASURES IN PLACE, LIKE LIGHTING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, CRIME WATCH.

UM, THERE'S NO CAMERAS, BUT DO YOU ALSO HAVE SECURITY, UH, OFFICERS? YES, WE HAVE A COURTESY PATROL AND WE'VE ALSO INSTALLED LICENSE PLATE READERS AT THE ENTRIES OF THE PROPERTY AS, AS REQUESTED BY THE CITY OF DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

OKAY.

SO THO, THO THOSE ARE CAMERAS WE HAVEN'T INSTALLED.

WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS INSTALLED THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE PROPERTY YET DUE TO A LICENSING ISSUE WITH THE VENDOR THAT WAS SELECTED, WHICH WE'RE WORKING OUT.

HOW OFTEN DOES YOUR SECURITY, WELL, I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS.

SO DOES YOUR TENANTS HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR, UM, SECURITY OFFICERS? YES, THEY CAN CALL, UH, THE, THEY CAN CALL THE OFFICE NUMBER, UH, IF IT'S AFTER HOURS, THEY'RE DIRECTED TO THE COURTESY PATROL'S PHONE NUMBER TO CONTACT THEM.

AND HOW OFTEN DOES YOUR PROPERTY MANAGER MEETS WITH YOUR SECURITY OFFICERS TO DISCUSS ANY CONCERNS THE TENANTS MIGHT HAVE? DO THEY EVER WE'RE UPDATED? WE'RE UPDATED DAILY, UH, WITH REPORTS.

UH, THE COURTESY PATROL IS ON SITE AT RANDOM 16 TIMES PER DAY THROUGHOUT THE DAY, 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

UM, AND THEN EACH DAY THE PROPERTY MANAGER HAS EMAILED A REPORT FROM THE PREVIOUS DAY.

WE REVIEW THAT AND IF THERE'S ANY INCIDENTS THAT WE NEED TO DISCU THAT OCCURRED, THEN WE DISCUSS THOSE WITH THE COURTESY PATROL.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

MS. WALLACE.

UH, MS. TORRES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR WITNESSES? NO QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

MR. CILLA, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR, UH, IT'S WITNESSES? DO.

THANK YOU, MR. LEONARD.

I WANTED TO ASK QUESTIONS IN REGARD TO JULY, 2021, WHEN YOU BECAME EMPLOYED.

UM, OR I GUESS NOT EMPLOYED, BUT MAYBE THAT'S WHEN YOU HAD THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY UNDER YOUR MANAGEMENT.

DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE AN OFFICE ON THE PREMISES? NO, I DO NOT.

OFFICE OUT OF THE CORPORATE OFFICE, HOW OFTEN DO YOU WALK THE PROPERTY FROM TWO JUNE TWO, JULY, 2021 ON AVERAGE, I VISIT THE PROPERTY AT LEAST ONCE EVERY OTHER WEEK, SOMETIMES WEEKLY.

WHEN YOU TOOK OVER THE PROPERTY OR THIS BECAME UNDER YOUR MANAGEMENT IN JULY, 2021, DID YOU WALK IT IMMEDIATELY WHEN YOU BECAME EMPLOYED IN JULY, 2021? YES, I DID.

AND WHAT DID YOU NOTICE ABOUT THAT PROPERTY OF WHAT YOU CAN REMEMBER? UH, JUST OBSERVED NATURAL THINGS OF THAT, UM, PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND POINTED THOSE OUT TO THE MANAGER WHAT NEEDED TO BE, IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT NEEDED.

CORRECT.

BE CORRECTED.

I CAN'T EXACTLY RECALL WHAT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN TWO YEARS AGO, BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT STICKS OUT THROUGH MY NOTICES, UH, I MEAN THROUGH MY WALK THAT I NOTICE, YOU KNOW, I ADDRESS IT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE PROPERTY MANAGER.

CAUSE SOMETIMES THEY DON'T ALWAYS SEE EVERYTHING AND

[00:50:01]

THEY'RE NO ONE, AND SOMEONE COULD COME BACK BEHIND ME AND SEE SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T NOTICE.

UH, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT THE PROPERTY HAD A CREEK RUNNING BEHIND IT AT TIME? UH, YES, I WAS.

AT THAT TIME.

DID YOU NOTICE THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF ANY, AT THAT POINT, WAS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF HUMANS OR HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS THAT MIGHT BE LIVING NEAR THE CREEK? I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN ANYONE LIVING BACK THERE, BUT I KNOW THEY EXIST BECAUSE OF THE CLOTHING AND THE TRASH AND DEBRIS THAT THEY LEAVE BEHIND.

THEY LIVE IN IT.

THEY ACTUALLY LIVE DOWN BELOW VISIBILITY.

UM, BUT THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S SIGNS THAT PEOPLE ARE LIVING BACK THERE.

YES.

SO PRIOR, SO JULY, 2021, OR WITHIN EVERY TWO WEEKS THAT YOU WERE WALKING THIS PROPERTY FROM JULY, 2021, DID YOU NOTICE THAT TYPE OF EVIDENCE OF POTENTIAL HUMAN BEINGS THAT WERE LIVING NEAR OR AROUND YES.

THE CREEK, YES.

IT'S, IT'S AN ONGOING PROBLEM THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF DALLAS.

I'M ASKING ABOUT YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU WERE MANAGING, NOT THE CITY OF DALLAS.

WELL, YES, THAT PROPERTY, AND IT IS IN ALSO SEVERAL OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I HAVE IN THE CITY OF DALLAS.

THE SAME THING OCCURS AT THOSE PROPERTIES AS WELL.

APPRECIATE THAT.

I'M JUST ASKING ABOUT THIS PROPERTY AND YES, I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.

YES.

UM, YOU NOTICE ANY TRASH NEAR THE PROPERTY OR ON THE PROPERTY AT THAT TIME IN 2021? ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE, UH, THAT'S NOT PART OF OUR PROPERTY, BUT WE HAVE MAINTAINED THAT WITHIN THE SIX FEET PERIMETER, WHICH WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO BY CITY ORDINANCE.

AT POINT, AT POINT.

AT THAT POINT, DID YOU NOTICE ANY, UH, BROKEN FENCES OR CUT FENCES AT THAT TIME, OR DELA? I DON'T RECALL AT THAT TIME.

I DON'T RECALL AT THAT TIME.

NOTICE ANY GRAFFITI ON THE BUILDING AT THAT TIME OR WITHIN THE, THE TIMES THAT YOU WALKED IN 2021, THE PROPERTY? I HAVE NOT NOTICED ANY GRAFFITI ON THE BUILDINGS.

YOU NOTICED ANY GRAFFITI IN 2022 ON THE BUILDING? I, I'VE NEVER NOTICED OBSERVED ANY GRAFFITI.

YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PHOTOS THAT WERE PRESENTED BY, I BELIEVE THE CITY OF DALLAS.

IT SHOWS GRAFFITI ON THE BUILDING.

I'M SORRY, WAS THAT A QUESTION? IT IS A QUESTION.

I'M SORRY.

WHAT WA WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? I, I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND.

ARE YOU TO HEAR ME? OKAY.

I'M SORRY.

I'M SPEAKING FROM A COMPUTER.

I CAN HEAR YOU NOW.

YES.

OKAY, PERFECT.

SORRY.

UM, DID YOU NOTICE THE GRAFFITI THAT WAS IN THE PHOTOS PROVIDED? MR. MR. CASTILLO? THAT'S GONNA BE YOUR, YOUR TIME FOR THIS ROUND.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. JEFFS, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT? I DO.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. LEONARD, YOU SAID THAT THE, UM, REPAIRS TO THE FENCING WERE ONGOING AND, UH, WERE COMMONPLACE BECAUSE OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION ON THE CREEK, ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE DEPARTMENT.

CORRECT.

HAVE YOU MADE COMPLAINTS TO THE CITY OF DALLAS OR TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE HOMELESS POPULATION BACK THERE AND YES, WE HAVE.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY DIALOGUE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND YOU REGARDING, UH, THE NATURE OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, WRITTEN DIALOGUE? I WOULD SAY NO, BUT IT, UH, THE CITY HAS BEEN OUT THERE SEVERAL TIMES ALONG WITH PEACE OFFICERS AND INSPECTING UNITS, AND WE'VE BROUGHT IT UP TO THEM NUMEROUS TIMES REGARDING THE HOMELESS, AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, THERE'S NOT ANYTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

BASICALLY IS, IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

MR. JEFF.

MR. HAYES, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR WITNESSES? YES, I DO.

UM, PROCEEDING, I'M, I, I'M AWARE OF THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF AB DEBATABLE, WHICH IS DEFINED BY CODE AND THE COMMON USAGE OF THE TERM AB DEBATABLE.

HOWEVER, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TWO THINGS IN PARTICULAR, SECURITY SERVICE AND LIGHTING ARE THE KINDS OF STEPS THAT ANY RESPONSIBLE APARTMENT OWNER, PARTICULARLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THIS, UH, COMPLEX EXISTS, WOULD WANT TO TAKE WITHOUT EVEN BEING BROUGHT TO THIS ISSUE OF BEING A HABITUAL CRIMINAL PROPERTY.

SO MY QUESTION IS FOR MR. GUY GALLEGOS.

UH, TWO QUESTIONS.

ONE, DO YOU LIVE ON THE PROPERTY ITSELF, MR. GALLEGOS? I DO, YES.

OKAY.

SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE, DO I LIVE ON PROPERTY? YES.

NO, I DON'T.

OKAY.

UM, SECOND QUESTION THEN.

GIVEN MY PERSONAL BELIEFS THAT SECURITY SERVICE AND LIGHTING ARE VERY REASONABLE

[00:55:01]

THINGS THAT SHOULD BE IN EXISTENCE AT ANY APARTMENT COMPLEX LIKE THIS ARE SIMILAR TO IT, DID YOU EVER SUGGEST OR REQUEST A LANDMARK THAT THEY IMPROVE THE LIGHTING AND HIGHER SECURITY SERVICE ANY TIME, UH, DURING YOUR TENURE AS MANAGER? NO.

OKAY.

THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. QUINN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT? YES, SIR, I DO.

THANK YOU.

SO PLEASE PROCEED.

THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. LEONARD, I, I FIND IT TRULY HARD TO BELIEVE THAT MANAGEMENT DID NOT KNOW THAT THERE WAS ISSUES AT THIS COMPLEX.

DO EITHER YOU, MR. LEONARD OR MR. GALLEGOS KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THE POLICE WERE CALLED? NO, I DO NOT.

WOULD 218 SURPRISE YOU? YES, IT WOULD.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE URGENT? NO, I DO NOT.

111.

THAT TO ME, SORT OF SPELLS THAT THIS IS TRULY A HABITUAL CRIME AREA.

DID YOU EVER HEAR MR. LEONARD OR MR. GALLEGOS, ESPECIALLY TENANTS COMING TO YOU SAYING THERE'S AN ISSUE, THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THIS PROPERTY, LI TENANTS HAVE RESPONDED, AND IF WE'RE NOTIFIED OF, OF THE ISSUE WITH TENANTS, WE DO REACT TO IT AT THAT TIME.

NO.

NO, SIR.

MY QUESTION TO YOU WAS, DO TENANTS EVER COME TO YOU SAYING THERE'S ISSUES WITH THIS PROPERTY, THE CRIME OR WHAT HAVE YOU? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

SO AGAIN, I FIND THAT TRULY HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT 218 CALLS OF THE POLICE, YOU'VE NEVER HEARD ONE TENANT SAY TO YOU, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG.

I'M NOT ON SITE.

SO, BUT IN TERMS OF CALLING THE CORPORATE OFFICE, NO, NO ONE HAS CONTACTED THE CORPORATE OFFICE.

SO MR. GALLEGOS, YOU, YOU OFFICE AT THAT PROPERTY OR YOU DON'T WHAT? I'M SORRY, MR. GALLEGOS, DO YOU OFFICE AT THAT PROPERTY? YES.

SO YOU'VE NEVER HAD TENANTS COME TO YOU SAYING THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH SAFETY ON THIS PROPERTY? NO.

I FIND THAT INCREDIBLY HARD TO BELIEVE WITH THAT MANY CAUSE TO THE POLICE.

UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH FENCING AND LIGHTING AT EVERY PROPERTY, CORRECT? MR. RECO, ARE YOU ASKING ME OR OR MR. LEONARD, YOU OR MR. GE? MR. LEONARDS, YOU MENTIONED THAT AT EVERY PROPERTY Y'ALL HAVE, YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH FENCING AND LIGHTING? NO, I DID NOT SAY THAT.

I SAID WE HAVE ISSUES WITH THE HOMELESS.

NO, SIR.

BEF, I, I WROTE DOWN YOUR WORDS EXACTLY AS YOU SAID THEM.

WE HAVE AN ISSUE AT EVERY PROPERTY WE OWN WITH LIGHTING AND FENCING.

THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS.

NO, NO, THAT'S TAKEN OUTTA CONTEXT.

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY IS WE HAVE ISSUES ONGOING.

THE CRIMINAL ISSUES OCCUR AT EVERY PROPERTY THAT WE OWN, NO MATTER WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD WE'RE IN, WE HAVE HOMELESS, UH, UH, OCCURS AT ALL OUR PROPERTIES NO MATTER WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD WE'RE IN.

THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY THAT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE HAVE LIGHTING ISSUES OR FENCING ISSUES AT EVERY PROPERTY THAT WE MANAGE.

MR. LEONARD, I CAN APPRECIATE YOUR WORDS, BUT THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS AND YOU DID NOT ELABORATE WITH ANY OF THAT, SIR.

UM, WELL, I'M EXPLAINING MYSELF NOW.

I I DID NOT REALIZE THAT'S WHAT I HAD SAID PRIOR, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY.

WELL, I'M JUST GOING BY YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR, AND I APPRECIATE IT.

SO YOU SAID YOU HAVE SECURITY, UM, 24 HOURS A DAY, AND IS THERE SOMEONE ON THE PROPERTY ALL DAY, EVERY DAY? UH, DURING OFFICE HOURS, THERE'S, UM, MANAGEMENT'S ON SITE.

YES.

NO, SIR.

I SAID SECURITY.

SECURITY, YES.

THEY'RE THERE NOT, THEY'RE NOT THERE 24 7, BUT THE, THEIR COURTESY PATROL PATROL IS SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, 16 TIMES A DAY AT RANDOM TIMES.

OKAY.

SO, SO THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THE PROPERTY IS EXPOSED, SO TO SPEAK.

UH, MR. QUINN, THAT'S YOUR TIME FOR THIS ROUND.

THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU.

UH, MS. SHIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR, UH, THESE WITNESSES? I HAVE NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

UM, I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.

LEMME MAKE SURE I GOT THEM.

UH, MR. LEONARD, HOW MANY PROPERTIES DID YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR? CURRENTLY, I'M OVERSEE 28 PROPERTIES.

ARE THEY ALL THIS LARGE? THEY VARY IN SIZE FROM 24 UNITS, UPWARDS OF 300 AND, UM, EIGHT UNITS.

AND HOW MANY UNITS DOES THIS ONE HAVE? 243.

OKAY.

SO IT'S ON THE LARGE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY MANAGE? CORRECT.

DO ANY OF THOSE

[01:00:01]

OTHER PROPERTIES HAVE SECURITY PATROLS? WE HAVE, UH, ONE OTHER PROPERTY THAT HAS A COURTESY PATROL.

OKAY.

AND WHY DOES, WHY DID THIS PROPERTY NOT HAVE A SECURITY PATROL BEFORE? UH, IN ALL HONESTY, I DIDN'T SEE THE NEED FOR IT AND UNAWARE OF THESE ACTIVITIES OCCURRING.

OKAY.

DO YOU SEE THE NEED FOR IT NOW? I DO NOW, YES.

AND WE'VE IMPLEMENT, THAT'S WHAT WE IMPLEMENTED ONCE WE WERE AWARE OF, OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.

OKAY.

SO, SO THE, THE CRIMES ON THE LIST AND THE LETTER FROM THE CITY, UH, YOU SAID OTHER THAN THE MANSLAUGHTER, UM, YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THESE NO.

CRIMES PRIOR TO GETTING THE LETTER? NO.

UM, SO E EXCLUDING THE POSSESSION OF THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE, WHICH WE'RE GONNA ASSUME ALL OF THOSE HAPPENED, UH, IN, IN PEOPLE'S APARTMENTS, UM, THERE'S, I I COUNT FIVE OR SIX, UH, VIOLENT CRIMES, ROBBERIES AND AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS THAT HAPPENED ON THE PROPERTY IN THE YEAR PRIOR TO YOU GETTING THESE LETTERS, YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THOSE? NO.

AND PRESUMABLY THE POLICE VISITED THE PROPERTY TO INVESTIGATE THOSE.

HOW IS IT THAT YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THE POLICE VISITING THE PROPERTY? WELL, THAT'S OUR QUESTION AS WELL.

UH, UH, UH, WOULD LIKE TO SAY, IN ALL FAIRNESS, THAT OTHER PROPERTIES, WHEN THIS HAS OCCURRED, WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS USUALLY OCCURS, THE POLICE USUALLY DO STOP BY THE OFFICE AND INFORM MANAGEMENT OF WHAT'S IN OCCURRED.

THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED AT THIS PROPERTY.

SO, UH, WHY? I DON'T KNOW.

I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.

UM, BUT YOU, YOU KNOW, IN THE 22 YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN DOING THIS, WE'VE NEVER LOGGED INTO A POLICE WEBSITE TO CHECK THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ANY PROPERTY THAT WE MANAGE.

AND I DON'T KNOW.

AND I'VE WORKED FOR FIVE DIFFERENT MANAGEMENT COMPANIES AND THAT'S NEVER BEEN SOMETHING THAT ANY MANAGEMENT COMPANY HAS EVER DONE THAT I'VE WORKED FOR.

UM, SO I FIND THAT HIGHLY UNUSUAL.

THE, THE, THE, THE BURDEN IS ON US TO DISCOVER, TO LOG IN AND DISCOVER IF THE POLICE HAVE BEEN CALLED TO OUR PROPERTY.

I, I WOULD THINK THAT IF THE POLICE WERE OUT THERE, THAT THEY WOULD STOP BY THE OFFICE AND NOTIFY US THAT THEY WERE ON THE SITE AND THAT OF SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BEING THAT THEY WERE AT THE PROPERTY, UM, WHICH IS, LIKE I SAID, HAS OCCURRED AT OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I'VE ALWAYS MANAGED.

THEY'VE ALWAYS STOPPED BY THE OFFICE AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON.

THIS IS WHY WE'RE HERE.

SO YOU HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THESE VIOLENT CRIMES THAT OCCURRED ON YOUR PROPERTY SINCE LAST DECEMBER? UM, CORRECT.

TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE WAS TWO, THE ONE THAT HAPPENED IN DECEMBER AND THEN THE, THE UNFORTUNATE TRIPLE MURDER THAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR THAT STARTED ON THE STREET AND ENDED UP IN OUR PARKING LOT.

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT AN INCIDENT THAT STARTED ON OUR, IN OUR PROPERTY.

O OKAY.

AND AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS LETTER, IT, IT EXPLAINS HOW TO OBTAIN COPIES OF THE POLICE REPORTS, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT YOU HAVEN'T DONE, CUZ YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MORE DETAILS ABOUT THESE.

UM, HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY STEPS TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT WAS YOUR TENANTS WHO COMMITTED ANY OF THESE CRIMES AND A VICTIM NOW THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM? IF WE KNOW ABOUT 'EM? YES, WE'VE, WE'VE HAVE ACTUALLY.

BUT YOU'VE KNOWN ABOUT 'EM SINCE DECEMBER? CORRECT.

AND THE ONES THAT WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT THAT WE, WE HAVE PRO PROVIDED, PROCEEDED WITH THE EVICT THEN.

SO HAVE YOU, SO WHO COMMITTED THE, UH, AGGRAVATED ROBBERY ON NOVEMBER 12TH, 2022? I DON'T